From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Feb 1 00:49:29 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:43 2005 Subject: Some finds and a few questions In-Reply-To: <199902010526.XAA29593@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, David Williams wrote: > > it. As far as drivers, everything you need is on the card and the hard > > drive. Remember, with the Apple ][, the "driver" software is embedded on > > a PROM or EPROM on the card itself which maps directly into a memory space > > dedicated to the slot the card is plugged in to. > > Yes, I meant the install and other utils when I said "drivers". Ok. If you want/need copies of the install/format/partition software then just let me know and I'll stick ShrinkIt images of the disks on my web site. This offer stands for anyone who might need these. > I have the cable from the card to the DE-37. Don't have a cable > from the DE-37 to the back of the drive but that shouldn't be too > much of a problem. The terminator might be a bit more > troublesome but I'm sure I can locate or fashion something. I just opened the terminator and it looks like it has some sort of blue chip inside (a resistor pack?) The numbers on it are: 14-3- 221/331 8440 <- date code? Its embedded into a flimsy piece of plastic with solder traces leading off to the pins of the DE37. I'm sure you could duplicate it with some wire if you found the chip and I gave you the correct pinout. > Were the partition and install utils normally copied to the drive as > part of the install? I may want to repartition it depending on what I > find assuming it works at all. No. And I believe re-paritioning the drive involved losing all the data on it. My suggestion is to re-partition it for 99% ProDOS (leaving the 1% for the minimal DOS 3.3 partition required to boot). Using it for anything other than ProDOS is a waste. I wish I hadn't created the 10 or so DOS 3.3 volumes on my 20megger that mostly went unused over the time I've had it. > > Well, don't get your hopes up about the games. They suck for the most > > part. > > What, you mean I can't play Baldur's Gate, Civ 2 Multiplayer, > Populous or SimCity 3000 on them? Damn, what good are they? What I meant is that they just weren't as entertaining as the games for the 2600 IMO. I still play my 2600. The games are more fun than any modern PC game (well, Myst was really cool). However, after turning Solar Fox over twice (2,000,000) there just hasn't been any game that has challenged me. > Well, every other time I've posting to the list that the deal was a no- > go, they contacted me and we moved a little closer. Maybe it will > happen again. Then again, I'd hate to give up totally so maybe I'll > make one last try. Give them a call and throw them a low ball offer. I'm sure if they still have them by now they'll be more than happy to dump them for any price. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 1 00:35:19 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:47 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: <199901312238.QAA08461@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Paul Braun wrote: > Can anyone give me the original release dates and some tech specs on the > 200 and the Pocket? The 200 has the parallel printer card, the external [...] > Any info, anecdotes, whatever would be greatly appreciated and acknowledged > in the display. One info nugget of interest is that Tandy didn't make either the Pocket Computer (Sharp) or the Model 100 (Kyocera). I'm not sure about the M200, but I suspect it might have been made by Kyocera as well. Uncle Roger knows more about all of the different Kyocera clones. -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 1 00:56:04 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus In-Reply-To: <000001be4d9a$bd764660$0a00000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Kirk Davis wrote: > Good point Doug. I *totally* agree. You know, if you want to give me > a complete list of your sources - I'll be sure not to accidentally give > them out... Really, AFAICT, Andrew Davie is the king of mining a variety of sources. There are few machines I find interesting enough to weather the vagaries of getting stuff out of Russia, for example. For those in the SF Bay Area, there are a couple of web pages that not only list many of the local sources, but also *rate* them. I'll leave finding those web pages as an exercise for the reader :-) Of course, the best sources are probably dumpsters and thrift store as-is centers. Once you get up to the retail, surplus, or thrift store level of the food chain, all of the really interesting "junk" has been dumpstered, recycled, or stripped for parts. So, if you're looking for machines that were used commercially, dive in some of the dumpsters belonging to companies that have been established for, say, 20 years or longer. If you're looking for home micros, hit places like the Good Will as-is center in your area (filled with the rejects after Good Will has selected the "good" stuff for their retail stores). I went to a swap meet in Orange County today, but it was rained out, so I headed to a thrift store, and found some amazingly cool stuff: a Lego MindStorms kit (complete with two accessory packs) and a programmable Winnie the Pooh! -- Doug From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 04:34:30 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990131112432.23df040e@earthlink.net> from "Dave Dameron" at Jan 31, 99 11:24:32 am Message-ID: <199902010935.KAA13152@horus.mch.sni.de> > I wonder if bit-serial would be simpler (less data path, more control > logic, basically). A lot of the valved machines were bit-serial for this > reason. > [...] I doubt that. shure, you might save logic within the ALU, but when it comes to registers and other buffers, you need them again in paralell and the additional logic, at least at the simple structure of the Muniac CPU, will rather incease the tube count. I spend some a lot time to find ways to make it simplier, but John did a marvelous job. > > Am amazed you couls build a computer like this with ~400 cards ~800 tubes. > > That is similar to building a complete computer with 200 SSI TTL chips like > > a 7400. Especially since a 24 bit latch could use 24 of the cards. I tried > This doesn't sound out of line. The CPU of the PDP8/e on my desk is 3 > quad cards of TTL, mostly simple gates. Perhapes 250chips total. OK, some > of them are more complex (like full adder circuits), but there's nothing > that big in there. > > a design once (on paper) with MSI ic's like 74193 counters, and it quickly > > got out of hand, 100's of ic's. > If you're going to allow anything in the TTL data book, then you can > trivially make a CPU in 200 chips. You have to cheat slightly (74181 > ALUs, small PROMs, etc), but it can be done. It has been done - many times. Even if you stay at the more 'simple' structures (maximum complexity is a 4 bit latch) you can still be way below 200 - maybe only 100 TTLs - you just have to be as simple as possible. And the Muniac CPU is _very_ down to the basics (but still powerfull and usable). My imagination of the design is an early atempt to create a computer for 'Lab-Automatisation' (did someone say PDP ? :) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From KFergason at aol.com Mon Feb 1 03:36:42 1999 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Kaypro II and Kaypro 16 available Message-ID: hey, are they here in Houston? hows life? Kelly In a message dated 1/31/99 10:59:12 PM Central Standard Time, dlw@trailingedge.com writes: > I've been talking with a guy who has a Kaypro II and a Kaypro 16. I > I already have a Kaypro II and I'm not interested enough in the 16. > Anyone out there who might like these, he used them for several > years and just wants to see them go to a good home. Hmm, > maybe I need another storage space. Let me know if you're > interested and I'll put you in touch with him. > From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Mon Feb 1 04:59:58 1999 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: List of interesting stuff was RE: Time to share a source - W.J.Ford Surplus Message-ID: <36B5892C.D853C8F8@knet.kootenay.net> While looking around Andrew'secret suplus site at > http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/index.html > i found the following that might interest you guys and gals:) http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/video.html COLOUR VIDEO MONITOR Make:SONY Model:PVM-1910 TRINITRON COLOOUR, RGB, COMPOSITE VIDEO, EXT. TUNER, VTR, AND COMPUTER INPUTS, SEPARATE AUDIO INPUT, 24" DIAG. CRT Dimensions: 19.00"w x 19.00"h x 21.00"d Weight: 63.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2340N RAMP Price: $ 150.00 ----------------------------------------- http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/compute.html BASIC COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:85 BASIC LANGUAGE COMPUTER WITH BUILT IN PRINTER AND TAPE DRIVE, STD. 16K MEMORY, IDEAL FOR HPIB SYSTEMS (REQUIRES SEPARATE HPIB INTERFACE) 2.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2540 RAMP Price: $ 75.00 COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:300 / 9000 DESKTOP COMPUTER WITH 250 W POWER SUPPLY, BACK PLANE, COLLING FANS ETC. - MEMORY BOARD HAS BEEN REMOVED Dimensions: 12.75"w x 5.00"h x 15.00"d Weight: 21.00 lbs. 22.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1749 WRHS-06 Price: $ 10.00 COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:9826 TABLE TOP COMPUTER WITH BUILT IN CRT AND KEYBOARD, INCL. HP 98626A RS-232 INTERFACE AND HPIB INTERFACE, C.W. 17 FLOPPY DISCS WITH OPERATING SYSTEM ETC., SYSTEM BOOTS UP, CRT CLEAR AND BRIGHT Dimensions: 17.00"w x 7.00"h x 25.00"d Weight: 45.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2579 RAMP Price: $ 125.00 COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:HP 85A C.W. 82903A MEMORY MODULE & 82936A ROM DRAWER 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2563 RAMP Price: $ 75.00 COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:HP 85A C.W. 2 82936A ROM DRAWERS 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2564 RAMP Price: $ 75.00 COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:HP 85B C.W. I/O ROM 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2565 RAMP Price: $ 90.00 DISC DRIVE VARIOUS MAKES & MODELS OF 5 1/4" FLOPPY DRIVES - REMOVED FROM SURPLUS EQUIPMENT Dimensions: 8.00"w x 8.00"h x 3.00"d Weight: 3.00 lbs. 10.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1563 UM04 Price: $ 5.00 DISC DRIVE Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:9121S USES 3.5" DISKS, 270 KBYTE CAPACITY, HPIB COMPATIBLE Dimensions: 13.00"w x 3.00"h x 11.00"d Weight: 12.00 lbs. 2.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2712 UM01C2 Price: $ 50.00 DUAL DISC DRIVE Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:9121D USES 2 3.5" DISKS, 270 KBYTE CAPACITY EACH, HPIB COMPATIBLE Dimensions: 13.00"w x 3.00"h x 11.00"d Weight: 13.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2713 UM01C2 Price: $ 75.00 MONITOR, COMPUTER Make:ZENITH Model:ZVM-1240 AMBER SCREEN, 9 PIN DATA CABLE, REQUIRES 110 V AC, ONE UNIT HAS SWIVEL TILT PAD, OTHER HAS ANTI GLARE SCREEN, BOTH UNITS LIGHT UP WHEN PLUGGED IN (NOT TESTED ON A PC) Dimensions: 12.00"w x 10.00"h x 13.00"d Weight: 3.00 lbs. 2.00 on hand Image ID: ITEM473 Item No.:0473 UM01 Price: $ 8.00 PAPER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:9281-0401 BOX OF 6 ROLLS THERMAL PRINTER PAPER 2' X 250', ONS Dimensions: 8.00"w x 11.50"h x 3.00"d Weight: 4.00 lbs. 3.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1985 WRHS-SK16 Price: $ 12.00 PERSONAL COMPUTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:85B ALPHANUMERIC KEYBOARD, CRT, THERNAL PRINTER, TAPE DRIVE & ROM OPERATING SYSTEM, 64 K MEMORY, BUILT IN HPIB INTERFACE 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2541 RAMP Price: $ 90.00 PRINTER Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:2631A opt.046 SERIAL DATA PRINTER, DOT MATRIX 180 CHAR/SEC BI-DIRECTIONAL HEAD *** Dimensions: 25.00"w x 9.00"h x 19.00"d Weight: 52.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1431 UM03 Price: $ 30.00 PRINTER SWITCH Make:TANDY Model:26-2820 PRINTER INTERFACE SELECTOR 2, CENTRONICS COMPATIBLE PARALLEL PARALLEL INTERFACING, C.W. POWER SUPPLY, 2 CABLES & MANUAL, BOXED Dimensions: 12.00"w x 9.00"h x 3.50"d Weight: 3.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:2340 UM01 Price: $ 10.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:DIGITAL Model:LA50 9 PIN HEAD, 8 1/2 " CARRAIGE, FRICTION FEED, 25 PIN DATA CONNECTION, SELF TEST ACTIVATES PRINT HEAD BUT NOT ALL PINS LIVE, UNIT HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO HIGH HUMIDITY Dimensions: 16.00"w x 5.50"h x 11.50"d Weight: 10.00 lbs. 1.00 on hand Image ID: ITEM474 Item No.:0474 UM01 Price: $ 5.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:DIGITAL Model:LA75 TRACTOR OR FRICTION FEED, SELF CHECKS OK, FRONT PLASTIC LID OVER CARRAIGE MISSING Dimensions: 18.00"w x 5.00"h x 14.00"d Weight: 22.00 lbs. 2.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1853 UM01 Price: $ 35.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:EPSON Model:FX-100 136 CHAR. CARRAIGE, TRACTOR OR FRICTION FEED, SELF CHECKS OK Dimensions: 24.00"w x 5.00"h x 14.00"d Weight: 24.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1852 UM01 Price: $ 45.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:EPSON Model:FX-286 136 CHAR. CARRAIGE, TRACTOR OR FRICTION FEED, SELF CHECKS OK Dimensions: 24.00"w x 6.00"h x 13.50"d Weight: 23.50 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1855 UM01 Price: $ 35.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:2394 RS-232-C INTERFACE, COURIER CARTRIDGE, TRACTOR FEED, RESPONDS TO TEST, NEEDS RIBBON, COMMERCIAL GRADE CONSTRUCTION Dimensions: 23.50"w x 7.00"h x 14.00"d Weight: 45.30 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1854 UM01 Price: $ 125.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:OKIDATA Model:MICROLINE 812 PLUS FRICTION OR TRACTION FEED, INCLUDES HOLDER FOR PAPER ROLLS, DON'T KNOW WHAT BUTTONS FOR SELF CHECK Dimensions: 15.00"w x 3.50"h x 11.00"d Weight: 13.40 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1851 UM01 Price: $ 45.00 PRINTER, DOT MATRIX Make:PANASONIC Model:KX-P1092i TRACTOR OR FRICTION FEED, HIGH SPEED, NLQ, 8-1/2"W FORMS, SELF TESTS OK Dimensions: 17.00"w x 5.00"h x 14.00"d Weight: 22.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1846 UM01 Price: $ 55.00 PRINTER, INKJET Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:DESKJET SELF CHECKS OK Dimensions: 17.50"w x 8.00"h x 15.00"d Weight: 17.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1858 UM01 Price: $ 95.00 RS-232 INTERFACE Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:82939A (OPT.001) RS-232 INTERFACE MODULE FOR HP 85 COMPUTERS, OPT.001 IS 25 PIN MALE RS-232C CONNECTOR, C.W. COPY OF OWNER'S MANUAL Weight: 2.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2575 PRG0 Price: $ 75.00 RS-232C SERIAL INTERFACE Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:98036A INTERFACE MODULE FOR HP 80 COMPUTERS Weight: 2.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2578C PRF0 Price: $ 25.00 TAPE DRIVE Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:9144 16 TRACK DATA TAPE DRIVE UNIT, FROM HP WORKSTATION NETWORK ENVIRONMENT Dimensions: 13.00"w x 5.00"h x 15.00"d 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1288 RAMP Price: $ 25.00 http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/data.html DATA TAPE Make:3M Model:TK 50 1/2" COMPACTAPE CARTRIDGES COMPATIBLE WITH DIGITAL TK 50 DRIVES, PACKAGED NEW Dimensions: 4.25"w x 4.25"h x 1.13"d Weight: 1.00 lbs. 12.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1721 UM10 Price: $ 4.00 DATA TERMINAL Make:TEXAS INSTRUMENTS Model:707 SILENT 700 SERIES DATA TERMINAL, ACCEPTS ACOUTIC COUPLE AND PHONE LINE INPUTS. Dimensions: 11.50"w x 3.00"h x 8.50"d Weight: 5.00 lbs. 4.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1694 UM08 Price: $ 25.00 DATA TERMINAL Make:TEXAS INSTRUMENTS Model:707/1200VT SILENT 700 SERIES KEYBOARD & PRINTER, HAS A 2 1/2 X 9 LCD DISPLAY Dimensions: 11.50"w x 3.50"h x 8.50"d Weight: 7.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1695 UM08 Price: $ 40.00 DATA TERMINAL Make:TEXAS INSTRUMENTS Model:D765 PORTABLE SILENT 700 PORTABLE TERMINAL, SELF CONTAINED KEYBOARD,, PRINTER & MODEM TO ACCEPT TELEPHONE HANDSET Dimensions: 16.00"w x 4.50"h x 15.00"d Weight: 14.00 lbs. 2.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1689 UM08 Price: $ 30.00 DATA TERMINAL Make:TEXAS INSTRUMENTS Model:SILENT 700 CONNECTS TO STANDARD TELEPHONE HANDSET TO ALLOW TRANSMISSION OF TEXT BETWEEN COMPATIBLE UNITS, SUITCASE STYLE UNITS WITH BUILT IN KEYBOARD AND PRINTER Dimensions: 15.00"w x 4.50"h x 16.00"d 2.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1195 WRHS-G Price: $ 20.00 DUMB TERMINAL Make:DIGITAL Model:VT240 VT-240 TERMINAL, DOES NOT INCLUDE KEYBOARD OR MONITOR Dimensions: 18.00"w x 3.75"h x 12.00"d Weight: 12.00 lbs. 5.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1768 RAMP Price: $ 10.00 MAINFRAME Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:64100A THE 64100A IS THE FUNDAMENTAL UNIT OF THE 64000 DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM, CONSISTS OF CONSOLE WITH INTEGRAL 12" CRT, FULL ASCII KEYBOARD, RS-232 INTERFACE AND SPACE FOR 10 OPTION CARDS. UNIT HAS 64941A OPTION CARD CONTROLLING 2 X 5" FLOPPY DRIVES Dimensions: 20.00"w x 13.75"h x 28.00"d Weight: 75.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:0670 UM03 Price: $ 45.00 MODEM Make:TEAM TECHNOLOGY INC Model:1200AT FULL OR 1/2 DUPLEX, RS-232C PORT, COMPATIBLE WITH BELL 103 & 212A MODEMS, 0 - 300 BPS OR 1200 BPS, BOXED C.W. USER'S MANUAL & DC ADAPTOR Dimensions: 6.50"w x 3.50"h x 14.50"d Weight: 3.25 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2452 UM02 Price: $ 10.00 TAPE CARTRIDGES Make:3M Model:DC300A DATA TAPE CARTRIDGES, NEW, INDIVIDUALLY BOXED, (USED TAPES TAPES ALSO AVAIL. AT 1/2 PRICE) Dimensions: 6.00"w x 4.00"h x 0.63"d Weight: 0.50 lbs. 14.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1894 WRHS-19 Price: $ 2.00 TAPE UNIT Make:COLUMBIA DATA PRODUCTS Model:300 D 110 DATA TAPE CARTRIDGE UNIT Dimensions: 7.00"w x 5.00"h x 14.00"d Weight: 13.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1567 UM02 Price: $ 15.00 TELETYPE Make:TELETYPE CORP Model:43 TABLE TOP TELETYPE MACHINE, 1/2 & FULL DUPLEX OPERATION Dimensions: 17.00"w x 5.00"h x 21.00"d Weight: 30.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1798 UM Price: $ 20.00 http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/misc.html BOOKS Make:HEATHKIT Model:INDIVIDUAL LEARNING PROG 8 LOOSE LEAF BINDERS COVERING MICROPROCESSORS, DIGITAL TECHNIQUE, ETC., SOME VOLUMES DUPLICATED (NOT A COMPLETE SET), ALSO INCL. 2 VOL. OF FLIP CHARTS Weight: 37.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:B2505 MEZZ Price: $ 50.00 CABLES Make:HEWLETT PACKARD Model:82937A HPIB INTERFACE CABLE FOR HP 85 Weight: 2.00 lbs. 4.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:1719 UM08 Price: $ 10.00 RIBBON, TTY Make:UNKNOWN TYPEWRITER / TELETYPE RIBBONS, 1/2" CLOTH REUSEABLE INKED RIBBON ON 5/8" X 2" DIA. REELS, 12 PER BOX Dimensions: 8.38"w x 2.38"h x 4.00"d Weight: 0.50 lbs. 50.00 on hand Image ID: ITEM433 Item No.:0433 FRWALL Price: $ 0.25 U-MATIC CASSETTES Make:SONY Model:KCA6U SET OF 13 PRE-RECORDED U-MATIC CASSETTES WITH MICROCOMPUTER COURSES - INCLUDES CONCEPTS, ALGORITHMS, HARDWARE, ETC. Dimensions: 7.00"w x 10.00"h x 1.50"d Weight: 25.00 lbs. 1.00 on handNo Graphic on file Item No.:2306 WRHS-16 Price: $ 30.00 ------------------------------------------ http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/manuals.html list of all the manuals they have for rent ------------------------------------------ There is is .....phew :-) I had nothing to do so just thought you guys might be interested Chris Halarewich From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Feb 1 05:24:41 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Fw: Y1K Crisis Loomed... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990201062441.007a2100@mail.wincom.net> >From: "F.J. Ted Douglas" >To: "Charles Fox" >Subject: Fw: Y1K Crisis Loomed... >Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:57:50 -0500 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 >X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rev. Iain Macdonald >To: Alf & Sue Baldwin ; Allan Cunningham >; Barry Leslie ; Bethe >Nolan ; Bob Perry ; Chris >Ewington ; David Hart ; David >Nichols ; Debbie McKee ; Dr. >Wayne Stobo ; Fisher McKay >; Fred & Elizabeth Durham ; >Jack Waller ; Mary Miller ; >Moira Laidlaw ; Peg Perry ; >Peter Hogan ; Phil Cummings >; Rev. Richard Fairchild ; >Val Chappel >Date: January 30, 1999 9:51 PM >Subject: Y1K Crisis Loomed... > > >>Canterbury, England. A.D. 999. >> >>An atmosphere close to panic prevails today throughout >>Europe as the millennial year 1000 approaches, bringing with >>it the so-called "Y1K Bug," a menace which, until recently, >>hardly anyone had ever heard of. Prophets of doom are >>warning that the entire fabric of Western Civilization, >>based as it now is upon monastic computations, could >>collapse, and that there is simply not enough time left to >>fix the problem. >> >>Just how did this disaster-in-the-making ever arise? Why >>did no one anticipate that a change from a three-digit to a >>four-digit year would throw into total disarray all >>liturgical chants and all metrical verse >>in which any date is mentioned? Every formulaic hymn, >>prayer, ceremony and incantation dealing with dated events >>will have to be re-written to accommodate three extra >>syllables. All tabular chronologies with three-space year >>columns, maintained for generations by scribes using >>carefully hand-ruled lines on vellum sheets, will now have >>to be converted to four-space columns, at enormous cost. In >>the meantime, the validity of every official event, from >>baptisms to burials, from confirmations to coronations, may >>be called into question. >> >>"We should have seen it coming ," says Brother Cedric of St. >>Michael's Abbey, here in Canterbury. "What worries me most >>is that 'THOUSAND' contains the word 'THOU,' which occurs >>in nearly all our prayers, and of course always refers to >>God. Using it now in the name of the year will seem almost >>blasphemous, and is bound to cause terrible confusion. Of >>course, we would always use Latin, but that might be even >>worse -- the Latin word for 'Thousand' is 'Mille' - which is >>the same as the Latin for 'mile.' We won't know whether >>we're talking about time or distance!" >> >>Stonemasons are already reported threatening to demand a >>proportional pay increase for having to carve an extra >>numeral in all dates on tombstones, cornerstones and >>monuments. Together with its inevitable >>ripple effects, this alone could plunge the hitherto-stable >>medieval economy into chaos. >> >>A conference of clerics has been called at Winchester to >>discuss the entire issue, but doomsayers are convinced that >>the matter is now one of personal survival. Many families, >>in expectation of the worst, are >>stocking up on holy water and indulgences. >> >> >> > > Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Feb 1 05:56:13 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: CD-RW Drive References: <36B4FE80.6165703F@mindspring.com> <199902010128.UAA22282@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <36B5965B.E10F47@bigfoot.com> jpero@cgocable.net wrote: > Date sent: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:24:34 -0800 > Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Chuck McManis > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: CD-RW Drive > > > As you've just learned, CD-RW is not the same as CD-R. > > CD-R = CD "Recordable" > > CD-RW = CD "ReWritable" > > CDROM = read only. > > > > Use a CD-R drive to write CDs that a CDROM drive can read. (some drives > > will do both CD-R and CR-RW but these are labelled as such. > > --Chuck > > > > > Don't yours happen to be Acer CRW-6202 or like? > > 1. Successful burn of CDR discs requires everything turned off > except for this s/w burner because one miss is enough to ruin or > make it unreadable in some drives. > > 2. Are you doing a multi-session type? Many older cd drives spat > out this. Better do single-session. > > 3. Don't bother the 80min CDR discs, use 74min gold discs by > Sony, KAO and high quality ones. > > 4. Defrag all partitions. > > 5. No bumps or excessive vibrations to that cdrw drive. > > We have no problems using cds from that inexpensive Acer burner > on any drives including the old crusty 2x, 1x drives. :-) > > Right now I can see this cdrw drive IDE model around 390 dollars > at my part-time work at computer store. > > Jason D. It's been my experience that he needs to close the session on the disk or it won't be readable. Also there is an ISO 9660 mode that it needs to be done in as well so that it's compatible with all standard cdrom drives, including Macs. The suggestion of single session sounds about right. I haven't archived anything to mine in about a year, and I bought my Memorex CRW-1622 back a year ago and it was $295 through MEI Micro. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Feb 1 06:02:07 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: OT: PC parts available References: <199902010532.XAA29617@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: <36B597BE.EB7FE8FC@bigfoot.com> Sounds like he wants to sell them to you, what I'm reading. David Williams wrote: > The guy below seems to have a bunch of old PC parts he was > going to dump. They're not "classic" in mine or the list's terms but > I know some of you here might be able to use them and he was > just going to throw them away. Told him I'd pass his email along. > You can get in touch with him at the address in the email below. > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > Date sent: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:30:38 -0500 > From: Timothy Shandonay > Subject: parts > > I didn't read your web page very carefully....so I'm not sure if you > purchase computer parts. I have many motherboards, I/O cards, > video > cards, memory, etc that I am looking to get rid of. > > Let me know if you are interested. > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 1 06:52:38 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Plato terminal Message-ID: <221affe0.36b5a396@aol.com> In a message dated 1/30/99 3:33:03 AM US Eastern Standard Time, geoffrob@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au writes: > I vaguely seem to remember that the Plato Courseware also ran, or they had a > version for, the TI99/4A. > They were pushing it at schools and the like IIRC. > My first real computer was a TI....Still got it here somewhere, complete > with the expansion box and 24k of additional ram, and a 5.25" FDD. yes, you are correct. I bought a complete unused CDC version of the ti computer at a radio rally and got about 50 plato courseware titles. it was indeed made for schools. From Jgzabol at aol.com Mon Feb 1 07:30:03 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer Message-ID: In einer eMail vom 31.01.1999 23:58:22, schreiben Sie: << I wonder if bit-serial would be simpler (less data path, more control logic, basically). A lot of the valved machines were bit-serial for this reason. [...] I simply find bit-serial AWFUL - so much time wasted !!! Anything should be designed to get the max. performance out of given technology/budget, in my opinion; bit-serial certainly then would be a good solution for a LONG word, like 30-60 bit, doing floating point, if and only if budget limits do not allow paralell, but not for smaller things. THAT is the reason for the historic machines - they wanted floating point, therefore long words, therefore serial because of budget/size/etc constraints. > Am amazed you couls build a computer like this with ~400 cards ~800 tubes. > That is similar to building a complete computer with 200 SSI TTL chips like > a 7400. Especially since a 24 bit latch could use 24 of the cards. I tried This doesn't sound out of line. The CPU of the PDP8/e on my desk is 3 quad cards of TTL, mostly simple gates. Perhapes 250chips total. OK, some of them are more complex (like full adder circuits), but there's nothing that big in there. > a design once (on paper) with MSI ic's like 74193 counters, and it quickly > got out of hand, 100's of ic's. If you're going to allow anything in the TTL data book, then you can trivially make a CPU in 200 chips. You have to cheat slightly (74181 ALUs, small PROMs, etc), but it can be done. It has been done - many times. -tony >> The big difference is in the basic AND-OR-INVERT tube gate used: only one half tube (the INVERT, one triode section out of a dual triode tube) is used, but a lot of diodes doing the ANDs and ORs, so that one tube section is equivalent to MORE than a standard SSI 74xx IC. Typically, I would say one AND-OR-INVERT, i.e. one tube section plus associated diodes and resistors is equivalent to about one entire 74xx package, so one tube is equivalent to about two packages, on the average. John G. Zabolitzky From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Feb 1 07:44:07 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: CD-RW Drive In-Reply-To: <36B52AFF.3B004629@mindspring.com> References: <199812272114.AA01822@world.std.com> <36B4FE80.6165703F@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990201084407.007ac3c0@mail.wincom.net> At 11:18 PM 1/31/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Phil Clayton wrote: > >> My goal is to archive my old DOS & CP/M (In DOS readable format) for future >> use.. >> I have wasted numerous CD-R's trying to write files to it.. >> I can get the cd drive to burn the CD & read from it, however it will not read >> on another standard CD drive. > >Thanks everyone for the feedback, here is some more information: >I have 2 cdroms installed in my WIndows 98 computer. >An Acer CRW 6206A 2X write, 6X read (The one in question) >and a Goldstar 8X standard CDROM, Both IDE.. >I have tried several times to use the existing software, the problem seems in >the final phase of the burn, in which the software finalizes the CD-R disk >to be readable in any standard drive. Twice now it stopped short of finishing >and give the error message, "Error, this disk will not be readable in a standard >CD drive" >It burns the CD-R just fine but seems not to be able to convert it to a >usable format for standard CDdrives. >The software even asks the question "Do you want this disk to be able to be read >in standard CDROM drives" ? It does the final phase and then errors out.. Still >works in the CDRW drive but not in a normal drive.. >Also it does direct CDROM duplication and the same error happens, it duplicate the >CDROM disk but in the final phase it stops short of finishing it.. >Phil.... > > > I had a couple of disks that crashed on my HP CD writer when the energy saving program put the computer to sleep. Make sure this is turned off!! However was able to re-install the disks and make them recognizable using the Adaptec software. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 09:19:08 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Basis 108 (was: TRW Swap Meet) In-Reply-To: References: <36B3D186.AA4CC342@rain.org> Message-ID: <199902011420.PAA07437@horus.mch.sni.de> > > Had a great time this morning at the TRW Swap meet. John, Doug, Dave, and I > > were there. The trip was rewarding, and lunch after was great. Doug found > > an Basis 108 that he didn't want to take back, so it is now sitting on the > > kitchen table (thanks Doug!) The others can comment on their "scored" > > items. Nothing like a fun morning to start the weekend off properly! > Yup, the Basis was a very interesting machine and in like-new condition. > I'd never seen one before. Shure ? there was one at VCF 2.0 - you remember the junk guy that thought the WOZ IIgs was $$$ ? I was very suprised to find one in the US ... I never knew they did export to te US. ANd now there is even a second unit ! > Apparently a German Apple II clone with a Z80 > in addition to the 6502 (from 1982). Jep, it is, but it's not 'only' a cole, it's _THE_ clone. WIth the BASIS the wole clone thing started off - The company was at the beginning (~1978/9) an Apple distributor and engeneering company in Germany. They stated early 1979 to make an 'better' Apple II - the BASIS (108), with a real case (metal), seperate keyboard, upper/lower case, German Umlauts, build in Z80, seriall and paralell interface build, 80 colume card and 64 (later up to 256) K of mem. Althrugh they asked an _extrem_ high price (some 5000-9000 Mark or ~2-3000 USD at this time), theyy had a big success. The new Apple Germany (~80) of course didn't like this competition and tried to punch them out of bussines via law suits. Eventualy they succeded, but to late: BASIS did order their production of the 108 and 208 at, back than, new and unknown companies in Taiwan. These companies where, after BASIS was send to bankrott by Apple, without their former customers looked for a new markt, and started to produce exact clones of the Apple II (the Basis was a complete reengeneered APPLE II - more like the IIgs or Platinum IIe) and sold them around the world. And, as usual in Taiwan, soon a lot of other small companies poped up around and offered even more clone products (back then there was almost no genuine development at all). in 1983..85, when the PC took off, they already developed a structure to participate ... So, the BASIS is a true part of history, the very reason for Taiwans position ind the clone market (and nowadays, they _are_ innovative). Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 09:19:08 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: list (was: Daily Laugh!) In-Reply-To: <199901300159.RAA08016@saul4.u.washington.edu> References: <199901300158.RAA12868@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 29, 99 05:58:26 pm Message-ID: <199902011420.PAA07447@horus.mch.sni.de> > > ::> Um, Derek, you're gonna unsubscribe this, right? > > ::I just did, and they weren't subscribed in the first place. > > ::I wonder if I can change the configuration so that only subscribed people > > ::can send things to the list? Is that really a good idea? > > Yes, definitely. Do it. We can clean up for the few people who might be > > receiving mail at a different address than they're subscribed at, and I would > > say very few if any in that category. (Maybe they should speak up now :-) I don't know if this is a good idea - remember, there are some mails (at least once a month) of people that don't subscribe, but rather offer something to subscribers (like 'Get my old junky Altair Serial number 0000001, I wil pay $$$ to have it removed'). Restricting this list would only avoide this - and mails like the laught spam are rare - in fact thats the first I remember. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 09:19:08 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Parallel C64's... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990129180231.0095eb70@mail.30below.com> References: Message-ID: <199902011420.PAA07461@horus.mch.sni.de> > >> Using 80 C-64s in a single project? Heck, I'm curious... > >Were basically in the preliminary feasibility study stages of building a > >massively parallel vintage computer. The point? To demonstrate that old > >hardware that can be picked up for pennies can be combined to attain > >amazing amounts of computing power. > How much of the documentation / flowcharts / source code / etc. will be > open source / GPL / freeware? I guess most - at least I think we will give source/object to anyone who like it - For flow charts and other documentation stuff we have to see if ther will be any usable form (beside the usual notes on used paper towels). Let's use Freeware as term, since I dislike the GPL thing on a pricipal base - it's just way to strict to allow progress. > I've always wanted to build a multi-processor CoCo (the 6809 was designed > with simple multiprocessing in mind) but never quite figured out where to > start. These documents might actually give me a clue. Let's see - I don't think you can use a lot, since the softwar will be very Commo specific and written in Assm. Maybe the communication design and protocols ... Maybe in 2000 we have a mixed cluster ? :))) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 09:19:07 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Massive paralell junk (was: Classic Computer Auctions List) In-Reply-To: <199901292258.RAA20037@armigeron.com> References: <199901271210.MAA19955@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Jan 27, 99 01:10:25 pm Message-ID: <199902011420.PAA07454@horus.mch.sni.de> > > a) what if there is no peer type network, but rather a structured > > hirarchy of domains ? > You then have a tree structure, which at first improves speed, but you end > up with bottle necks the higher you go in the tree (again, depending upon > problem type and communications, you get the bottle neck of you allow > arbitrary communication between nodes). Of course, since we have only realy slow machines (less than 300 kop(6502)/s*unit) and slow communication (between ~10 kBit for the working slaves and 100 kByte for the Main controler), the problem has to be ideal - so low (or beter none) communication between the slaves, and low dependancies between work pieces. For the bottleneck we plan to use different networks with different speeds in ech hirarchy - and for the problem, things like cracking or rendering comes to mind .... (cracking especialy is _very_ good scalable). Also the overhead might decrease in the higer levels _if_ we can manage to concate transfers (lower arbitation). > > Come in and join the definition team. > How does one join then? write to majordomo@nut.ner, message subscribe vcf-c64 > -spc (And I never did really learn 6502 Assembly code) We'll give you _ONE_ last chance :) Now come! Gruss H. -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From kh240463 at cr10m.staffs.ac.uk Mon Feb 1 08:59:48 1999 From: kh240463 at cr10m.staffs.ac.uk (KNIGHT G.A) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <8B57882C41A0D1118F7100805F9F68B50C178F16@RED-MSG-45> Message-ID: With the Euro being accepted as the new official currency of a combined European nation what will happen to all of those people wuth old computers who want to use the character but cannot. There are a number of fonts that have appeared on the Amiga and Windows PCs but I have to find any with the Euro character for the Atari ST, or any other old computer. Does anyone know of any efforts to make these characters available to operating systems such as CP/M? -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide- http://welcome.to/aig "Shine on your star" From bsa3 at cornell.edu Mon Feb 1 09:02:18 1999 From: bsa3 at cornell.edu (Brad Ackerman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: IBM 1130 (most of one) available Message-ID: There's an IBM 1130 available here to whomever wants to drive to Ithaca and pick it up. Unfortunately, the keyboard and power supply have been removed, although everything else seems to be there -- although I'm not exactly an 1130 expert. Anyone who is interested should email me so that I can inform the current owner that a new home has been found. Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home bsa3@cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them." http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998 From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 10:22:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: interesting book In-Reply-To: <000401be4c68$64fc03e0$89b0adce@5x86jk> References: <199901292259.QAA07806@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <199902011523.QAA25536@horus.mch.sni.de> Date sent: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:51:26 -0600 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "John R. Keys Jr." To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RE: interesting book > > I found a copy of a book by someone named Peter Norton. Looks to > > me like it may have been his first book. Called 'inside the IBM PC'. Duuuuh - guess you are younger than the average list member :) > Talk about strange things I just purchased the same book Friday for 10 cent > at the thrift here. So it was a good buy after all. John There are Zillions of copies - I think it could count as strange not to find at least on on every (technical) swap meet :)  Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 10:22:23 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: NAPLIPS (was: interesting book) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199902011523.QAA25543@horus.mch.sni.de> > > "Videotex: The New Television/Telephone Information Services" by R. > > Woolfe, 1980. This one looks like interesting reading. Quite a few > > colour photos from Prestel. A bit of a moral dilemma, though, as the > > book appears to have been taken out of a (non-local) university library > > in 1991 and not returned. > I wouldn't have a moral fit over this one. It was more than likely > discarded by the university because of its stale content. Speaking of Prestel (and of course CEPT :) does anybody know what happend to NAPLIPS (North American Presentation Layer ..???.. Standard - long time ago) - it was a NT (nice try) to set a properitary US standard agains CEPT/Prestel for a minitel like online system. Have there been any installations beyond a demostration ? Or did they only produce enough smoke to avoide the implementation of an international standard (as seen with mobile phones, ISDN, etc.) ? Gruss H. BTW. that seams to be an US specific phenomen to fight any standard, until there is no other choice, or the world is again splited into two worlds (more than by the French, where everybody would assume such an atitude). -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 10:33:51 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: References: <8B57882C41A0D1118F7100805F9F68B50C178F16@RED-MSG-45> Message-ID: <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> > With the Euro being accepted as the new official currency > of a combined European nation what will happen to all of > those people wuth old computers who want to use the > character but cannot. There are a number of fonts that have > appeared on the Amiga and Windows PCs but I have to find > any with the Euro character for the Atari ST, or any other > old computer. Does anyone know of any efforts to make these > characters available to operating systems such as CP/M? THere is also a solution for the Atari, and AFAIK a ASCII solution: on the european charsets (7-Bit) either the # sign (already Pound on english keyboards) or the $ sign (already used as 'curency' sign on some charsets - displayed as a circle with 4 spikes) is repleaced by the (stupid) E. Or just write down the official 3 letter abrevation EUR like used by every kind of money trading system and stock exchange. BTW: this E symbol is one of the 4 most stupid ideas around the euro - a typical pice of shit like most ideas developed by politicians. Don't get me wrong, the Euro is a good idea, but they tried to make it as stupid as possible. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 1 10:05:35 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 1, 99 04:34:51 pm Message-ID: <199902011605.IAA04250@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 789 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/fd1ae569/attachment.ksh From MagerValp at Goth.Org Mon Feb 1 09:58:36 1999 From: MagerValp at Goth.Org (MagerValp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: Cameron Kaiser's message of Mon 1 February 1999 08:05:35 -0800 References: <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> <199902011605.IAA04250@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <199902011558.QAA19424@qstore.cling.gu.se> >>>>> "Cameron" == Cameron Kaiser writes: Cameron> What *does* the Euro symbol look like, anyway? Like a C with two horizontal lines in the middle[0]. Umm. Kinda. Look at http://europa.eu.int [0] Not to be confused with a certain computer company's logo. *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink* -- ___ . . . . . + . . o _|___|_ + . + . + . . Per Olofsson, konstn?r o-o . . . o + MagerValp@Goth.Org - + + . http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/ From radack at juno.com Mon Feb 1 09:53:20 1999 From: radack at juno.com (Herbert B Radack) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: IBM XT Message-ID: <19990201.111329.14678.8.radack@juno.com> Have an IBM XT with keyboard and monitor. Anyone interested? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 1 10:15:40 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Basis 108 (was: TRW Swap Meet) References: <36B3D186.AA4CC342@rain.org> <199902011420.PAA07437@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <36B5D32C.2737533F@rain.org> Hans Franke wrote: > > I was very suprised to find one in the US ... I never knew > they did export to te US. ANd now there is even a second unit ! Looking in the front of the manual, it gives two addresses: copyright 1982 by BASIS Microcomputer GmbH Krogerweg 14 4400 Munster West Germany 251-617045 BASIS Incorporated 5435 Scotts Valley Drive Scotts Valley CA 95066 (408) 438-5804 This would seem to imply that there should be quite a few more over here somewhere. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 11:17:38 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: TI99: WP and PC In-Reply-To: References: from "Sam Ismail" at Jan 29, 99 08:44:51 pm Message-ID: <199902011618.RAA09809@horus.mch.sni.de> > > > WP... workspace pointer. back when the 9900 was new registers (memory) > > > really ate up chip space and TI had an archetecture in the 990 minicomputer > > > where register were in memory instead of in the CPU. So the WP is a pointer > > > that points to a block of 16 locations in ram that are addressed in > > > instructions as R0 through R15. > > Wow! What a cool architecture! That would be a very handy feature to > > have in any processor. > The disadvantage is that the registers are in main memory, so accessing > them is slower than accessing them if they were on the CPU. Nop, or better depending on the structure of your processor. for example, take one the most costly (basic) operation: Copy one register into another cycle 0 read operation, cycle 1 decode, cycle 2 read word cycle 3 write word Address calculation hidden while cycle 1 and 2. On first sight we could save cycle 3, to need only read/decode/move, but when you have your 16 Registers on chip, you need a 16 by 16 multiplex just for this one instruction (and thats a whole lot of silicon back then - not to mention additional decode logic to detect when source and destination is the same. While when using an ALU structure CPU, like common back these days, you need still 2 cycles read&feed ALU and store result. So if the CPU has no interleaved execution (needs again more silicon) you end up with same amount of cycles needed - just less bus load, but who cares bus load ? Remember, around 1980 Mem was still faster or at least as fast as CPUs. 200ns RAM could well perform in an 4 MHz system - and a 4 MHz CPU was quite a fast babe. So the design just added an ernormous amout of fexibility without drawbacks. Remember, the 9900 was also ment to be a simple mid to low range CPU. > A few other CPUs have tried something similar. The 6809 has a 'direct > page', which is like the 6502's zero page, except that it can be any > 256-location page in memory. The top byte of the address of this page > comes from a register in the processor. So on a context swtich, all you > have to do is change this register and save the CPU accumulators, index > registers, etc. Kind of. The 6502s Zeropage is more like an extended register set of 256 8 Bit or 128 16 Bit registers, without any proposed structure. And you are still fixed within a TBD structure, while the 9900 just changed all registers to a new value just by changing the WP. The 9900 is comperable to several Register Window designs of RISC processors. Nowadays, where the CPU runns art higher speed than MEM, _and_ several 1000 gates more for every instruction to save a cycle is seen as a bargain the huge silicon toll is no burdon. > The PERQ 1a and later have a very interesting feature. A register index > register (!). These machines have 256 processor registers on the CPU > card. A microinstruction selects which registers to use by a couple of > 8-bit fields in the microcode word. But on the 1a and later, there's an > 8-bit register on the CPU card that's ORed with the register address from > these microcode fields if the instruction references one of the first 64 > registers. Normally the index register is left set to 0, so it has no > effect, but I believe it has been used for context switching (to say move > a block of 16 'user' registers around in the CPU register space). > Equally you can select any register by loading its address into the index > register and referencing register 0. Nice implementation - low hardwarecount (from todays sight) but realy flexible, since it could do more than just store several register sets, but rather give 256 registers accessable at all times (a bit like 6502 zero page). Gruss H. P.S.: I've been told there was a Nixdorf computer where they build a (TTL) CPU based on the 9900 design. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 11:44:54 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <199902011605.IAA04250@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 1, 99 04:34:51 pm Message-ID: <199902011645.RAA15534@horus.mch.sni.de> > ::THere is also a solution for the Atari, and AFAIK a ASCII > ::solution: on the european charsets (7-Bit) either the # > ::sign (already Pound on english keyboards) or the $ sign > ::(already used as 'curency' sign on some charsets - displayed > ::as a circle with 4 spikes) is repleaced by the (stupid) E. > What *does* the Euro symbol look like, anyway? Like an E, but no, more like a genic mutated C, crossbreeded with a debenerated = ... C^H= .... just nonsense - for what reason we need such a stupid symbol ? Bloody Idiots. > Ignorant Australian-American :-), As ignorant as the european politicans ? (SCNR, no personal instult intended) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 11:53:35 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Handicapping competitions In-Reply-To: <199901300738.CAA27154@smtp.interlog.com> References: <19990129170926.0143983f.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <199902011654.RAA17167@horus.mch.sni.de> > Or you could spend about $10 bucks for a little multiclamp holder. > Mine even has a magnifying glass on it. Thats cheating ! Gruss H. P.S.: I use Philips Method -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 11:56:28 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Z3 builders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902011657.RAA17755@horus.mch.sni.de> > I was wandering around the net and found - 4PDT relays with sockets. > Price - $2.00 - 24DC coils. 4PDT ? Whats that ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Feb 1 08:25:12 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990131112432.23df040e@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990201082512.211f0438@earthlink.net> At 09:19 PM 1/31/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> Am amazed you could build a computer like this with ~400 cards ~800 tubes. >> That is similar to building a complete computer with 200 SSI TTL chips like >> a 7400. Especially since a 24 bit latch could use 24 of the cards. I tried > >This doesn't sound out of line. The CPU of the PDP8/e on my desk is 3 >quad cards of TTL, mostly simple gates. Perhapes 250chips total. OK, some >of them are more complex (like full adder circuits), but there's nothing >that big in there. Yes, I've never seen a schematic or prints of such a TTL computer, but would love to. I actually have some hardware now, the one from Don Tarbell, without documentation. Yes many systems were done with just transistors in a "small" system too. A block diagram seems simple, it is all the control and glue logic that got out of hand for my design. I didn't use a 74181 by the way, as couldn't see the use of most of the functions besides A and B, A+B, !A, etc. Just building an equivalent to a 74181 with only 7400 gates or valves would use quite a lot (I haven't counted them). > >> a design once (on paper) with MSI ic's like 74193 counters, and it quickly >> got out of hand, 100's of ic's. > >If you're going to allow anything in the TTL data book, then you can >trivially make a CPU in 200 chips. You have to cheat slightly (74181 >ALUs, small PROMs, etc), but it can be done. It has been done - many times. -Dave From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Feb 1 08:28:56 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Some finds and a few questions In-Reply-To: References: <199902010526.XAA29593@trailingedge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990201082856.211f3de0@earthlink.net> At 10:49 PM 1/31/99 -0800, Sam wrote: >I just opened the terminator and it looks like it has some sort of blue >chip inside (a resistor pack?) > >The numbers on it are: > >14-3- >221/331 >8440 <- date code? Yes, it is with the values of 220 and 330 Ohms from each pin to ground and Vcc. > -Dave From dogas at leading.net Mon Feb 1 10:55:01 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... (was list (was: Daily Laugh!)) Message-ID: <01be4e03$9be38440$bfc962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke >rather offer something to subscribers (like 'Get my old junky >Altair Serial number 0000001, I wil pay $$$ to have it removed'). Speaking of Altair Serial number 00000001.... rumor has it that the first one was lost in transit to that PE guy. Has this machine ever surfaced? Mike: dogas@leading.net From bill at chipware.com Mon Feb 1 11:04:55 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Z3 builders In-Reply-To: <199902011657.RAA17755@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <000301be4e04$fe130e50$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Hans Franke wrote: > > I was wandering around the net and found - 4PDT relays with sockets. > > Price - $2.00 - 24DC coils. > > 4PDT ? > Whats that ? 4 poles, double throw. Said another way, four individual switched circuts, each with two possible paths. Bad ASCII art: _________ _____/ _________ _________ _____/ _________ _________ _____/ _________ _________ _____/ _________ ^ ^ Switch positions controlled by coil, all up or all down. Bill Sudbrink From aknight at mindspring.com Mon Feb 1 11:09:49 1999 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: electromechanical calculator Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990201120949.00802c70@mindspring.com> Hi, At Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:25:14, Derek Peschel wrote: >There are calculator-collecting lists out there, for both mechanical and >early electronic calculators. I'm tempted not to say this... calculator >collecting so far has been a very quiet hobby. (I hope it stays that way!) Hmmm, I suppose that depends on your point of view. With the "collector's guide" for pocket calcs coming out in '97, and the message traffic of stuff for sale on some of the web sites, seems to me there is quite a lot of interest in pocket calcs and prices are going up very quickly. I've been active in this stuff now for about a year & a half. I see lots of new names bidding on calc stuff each month, FWIW. >That doesn't mean things are cheap, or that you can always find what you >want. But the list I'm on has very light traffic and a very high S/N ratio. Very true, I'm not sure why there isn't much traffic on the lists. I know quite a few folks who collect calcs, and there seems to be a lot of private e-mail exchanged, but not nearly the volume of postings as on this list, for instance. >The Web sites I've seen are informative and rather "gentlemanly". Use of >eBay doesn't seem to be encouraged. Seems like the trend is towards eBay, however - on the web sites that provide calculator classifieds it seems like more & more of the calcs for sale are listed on eBay rather than at a fixed price. >Now... to bring this message back ON-TOPIC, can anyone suggest some URL's >or a mailing list for collectors of _electronic_ calculators? I already >know about the MOSCOW site, but others might not. And I'm sure there are >other interesting resources out there! Well, another calc-related URL is for my site: Calculator History & Technology Archive http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm I have a bunch more calculator links on my site, and am a part of the Web ring that Andrew set up. FWIW, I'd set up an "egroups" list for calculator discussions and you'll see a link to that from my web site, but there has been no traffic and due to the difficulty of using egroups I may discontinue it altogether. On my site right now I'm leaning more towards coverage of early desktop calculators - they seem to have more in common with classic computers (particularly micros) than do the pocket calcs, and plan to expand coverage to certain early computer stuff as I can. One of these day's I'll show ya'll the insides of my H9 terminal, man what a lot of ICs. Maybe even my homebrew pre-PC 8086 machine... Regards, Alex From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Mon Feb 1 11:32:17 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Collecting computers - the book and the web site. Message-ID: <199902011732.MAA27432@saturn.golden.net> Greetings. There was a two month gap in my participation on the List until recently. Somehow, and no one has yet explained it, my subscription was removed (this happened again two weeks ago). Unfortunately, I missed a brief discussion of the book I wrote - it was reviewed in Dr. Dobb's Journal. Had I known, I would have contributed. To make matters even worse, the Classiccmp archive maintained by Kevan Heydon (many thanks man), also suffered from a technical glitch and needed to be restored. Now I've finally read the thread and please accept two observations and two invitations. Observation #1 - the books' identity crisis The book is a guide about the hobby of collecting computers and not a traditional collector's price guide. In a perfect world one would first read the guide to collecting and then want to read a collector's guide - the first guide stokes and refines the interest while the second guide assists in ensuring a collection is complete and in determining how much to buy and sell for. Observation #2 - the book's other identity crisis The book is for both seasoned collectors and beginners. It is not JUST a book for anyone who thinks collecting computers could be neat. Sure the guide will, by design help the novice, but it's equal strength is in helping the existing collector by affirming our practices and techniques and, by all means, sharing some of the practice and techniques the veteran collector might not know about. We should all be open to accepting our knowledge-gaps. In fact, a computer collector might not consider their collection complete without a copy of the first-ever book about collecting computers. Invitation #1 - answering questions about profilees I've been asked why some collectors were omitted and even why some were included. I expected such questions. As an author with a deadline and goal in mind I invited collectors who exemplified the experienced collector, the new collector, the big collector, the small collector, the international collector, etc trying to show how collecting is the same all over the world - same passions and problems. These collectors would/could also be role-models. The book might have included more profiles if the collectors had responded on a timely basis and with answers to the questions I asked. One collector didn't remember the dates and circumstances surrounding his most important acquisitions so I rejected the story because it was incomplete (even after several attempts to help improve its accuracy). Please send your questions about the book to me directly. Invitation #2 - my first attempt at building a web site Please take a moment to visit my site. See the orphan 360/22 mainframe (orphan because it was announced the same year the 370 series was!) and a few other systems that aren't that popular. Thank you. Happy collecting. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Feb 1 11:33:40 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... (was list (was: Daily Laugh!)) In-Reply-To: <01be4e03$9be38440$bfc962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Mike wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Hans Franke > >rather offer something to subscribers (like 'Get my old junky > >Altair Serial number 0000001, I wil pay $$$ to have it removed'). > > Speaking of Altair Serial number 00000001.... rumor has it that the first > one was lost in transit to that PE guy. Has this machine ever surfaced? Yeah, some UPS guy recently auctioned it on ebay ;) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From Jgzabol at aol.com Mon Feb 1 11:53:17 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Z3 builders Message-ID: 4 PDT = 4 Pole Double Through = 4 Umschaltekontakte exactly what one needs for digital ! Gru? John G. Zabolitzky From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 12:59:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Z3 builders In-Reply-To: <000301be4e04$fe130e50$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> References: <199902011657.RAA17755@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199902011800.TAA28480@horus.mch.sni.de> > > > I was wandering around the net and found - 4PDT relays with sockets. > > > Price - $2.00 - 24DC coils. > > 4PDT ? > > Whats that ? > 4 poles, double throw. Said another way, four individual switched > circuts, each with two possible paths. Bad ASCII art: > _________ > _____/ > _________ > :))) Perfect ASCII art ! 24V is high, do you got any size measurements ? Or better a web site ? Thanks Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 12:59:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:51 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... (was list (was: Daily Laugh!)) In-Reply-To: References: <01be4e03$9be38440$bfc962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <199902011800.TAA28483@horus.mch.sni.de> > > From: Hans Franke > > >rather offer something to subscribers (like 'Get my old junky > > >Altair Serial number 0000001, I wil pay $$$ to have it removed'). > > Speaking of Altair Serial number 00000001.... rumor has it that the first > > one was lost in transit to that PE guy. Has this machine ever surfaced? > Yeah, some UPS guy recently auctioned it on ebay Impossible - UPS is known to 'forget' items only exatly as long as needed until the item is worthless - my own experience with a pair of air plane tickets - 600 USD gone. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 1 13:12:43 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: SCSI(was: OT: New G3 Mac Tower (was: Re: Instant classic)) In-Reply-To: <199901312318.SAA04619@crobin.home.org> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 31, 99 11:57:06 am" Message-ID: <199902011813.TAA00173@horus.mch.sni.de> > > Undecided: > > Firewire > New standard... same thing people said about SCSI and USB. USB ok, but SCSI ? In fact I can't remember any similar thing when SCSI was new (~20 years ago, so truly classic) - tel me. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Jgzabol at aol.com Mon Feb 1 12:40:32 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Massive paralell junk (was: Classic Computer Auctions List) Message-ID: An ideal class of problems is Monte-Carlo simulation. You distribute identical programs to the machines, and different random-number seeds. Then each machine computes any desired amount of time (1 hour ? 1 day ? 1 week ? 1 year ?) without ANY communication. At the end each machine communicates just one or a few numbers to central, which takes the averages - that's the result. I had Cray machines working at theoretical max performance (all processors) that way. John G. Zabolitzky From mbg at world.std.com Mon Feb 1 12:48:14 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... (was list (was: Daily Laugh!)) Message-ID: <199902011848.AA03265@world.std.com> I hope you're kidding about the Altair serial number 1... I would rather hope that he would be investigated for 1) stealing it in the first place, or 2) accepting stolen property... Megan From cmcmanis at freegate.com Mon Feb 1 13:05:12 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> I love the idea of re-creating a 'valve' computer, and thinking about it got me to thinking about size. Barring the speed of light issue (that would make it impossible) how big would your modern day PII or G3 system be, if it were built with 1980's technology, 70's tech, 60's tech, and 50's tech? I remember the KL-10's at USC had 4 MWord memories that took up an entire rack. (4 Mword is about 16 mByte), so in 70's tech that my video card would be two racks, main memory would be 8 racks, ... --Chuck From jax at tvec.net Mon Feb 1 13:11:17 1999 From: jax at tvec.net (jax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Z3 builders In-Reply-To: <199902011657.RAA17755@horus.mch.sni.de> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990201131117.0079a100@pop.tvec.net> At 05:57 PM 02/01/1999 +1, you wrote: > >> I was wandering around the net and found - 4PDT relays with sockets. >> Price - $2.00 - 24DC coils. > >4PDT ? >Whats that ? 4-pole double throw relay - the relay permits 4 circuits to be switched between 2 different sets of contacts as the coil is energized. The 4PDT is probably a throwback to common "electrician" terminology in the U.S. Ve are a simple peeple, ya? >Gruss >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > > > jax@tvec.net From go at ao.com Mon Feb 1 13:11:09 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990201082512.211f0438@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19990131112432.23df040e@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990201104406.0331e950@office.ao.com> At 08:25 AM 2/1/99 +0000, you wrote: >At 09:19 PM 1/31/99 +0000, Tony wrote: > >>> Am amazed you could build a computer like this with ~400 cards ~800 tubes. >>> That is similar to building a complete computer with 200 SSI TTL chips like >>> a 7400. Especially since a 24 bit latch could use 24 of the cards. I tried >> >>This doesn't sound out of line. The CPU of the PDP8/e on my desk is 3 >>quad cards of TTL, mostly simple gates. Perhapes 250chips total. OK, some >>of them are more complex (like full adder circuits), but there's nothing >>that big in there. > >-Dave I should point out the Royal McBee LGP-30: http://www.users.nwark.com/~rcmahq/jclark/lgp30.htm It had a mere 113 tubes - lots of diodes forming the logic elements, but still, a puny number of tubes by any reasonable standard. And in this machine, they included: crt display for debugging (presumable not one of the 113 tubes) flexowriter (keyboard and printer) input and output drum main storage (32 bit instructions and data) And it could even give 64 bit products to a 32x32 multiply. Of course, it *was* a serial computer, but it is still a marvel of compact design for it's day. Only consumed 1500 watts of single phase power. Gary From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Feb 1 13:19:26 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: CDC 9766 Drive and packs Message-ID: Is anyone on the List, in the Southern California area, interested in a CDC 9766 350MP top loader, with three disk packs? This unit was attached to the Prime system I got recently, but is *not* going to be used with the way I have the Prime configured. I have gotten an offer of $100, but I have to deliver the damn thing, and it's 600lbs. I would like to sell this unit for a little more than $100, or I would consider donating it to a worthy situation, ie. needed for a systems restoration, or to supply parts made of Unobtanium. Replies by e-mail.... Cheerz John From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon Feb 1 13:49:44 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: *** Two 11/70s Available, Vancouver BC *** Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990201114944.009fd430@mail.sfu.ca> Hi Gang: I learned this morning of two DEC 11/70s that are available for free in Vancouver, BC. Taker will have to pickup. These are large systems that will need a few strong people to get into the back of a truck. Both were operational when last fired up 3 years ago, and have been in dry storage and covered in plastic since. Included are disk drives, 2 tape drives, consoles, and all documentation including, it appears, print sets. Tons of software as well, including a few compilers. I haven't seen them yet but will try to do so if there's much interest. My basement is far too full already to take one myself, :-( There's also a Microvax II in a BA23 case (that's the bar-fridge size model on casters). I live in Vancouver and will be able to assist in the removal and loading. Please contact me via email or at the office (604) 215-4812 for more info. ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-4812; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca From musicman38 at mindspring.com Mon Feb 1 14:00:29 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (musicman38@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: CD-RW Drive Message-ID: <000d01be4e1d$85c8cca0$72eecdcf@server> ->One detail that you might need to check: does the CD-RW share the IDE >channel with the CD-ROM? A lot of recorders will spit out bad CD's >because of this. I've had two drives that either wouldn't record at the >right speed or would bomb when writing the table of contents to the disc. > >Brett I think you may have something here Brett, Yes they do share the same IDE cable, one is Master , one is slave.. Problem is I also have a master & slave ide hard drive on the other cable.. I will try changing the cableing, did not know this was a problem, the book does not tell of this potential problem of sharing two cdrom drives on the same ide cable.. Phil... From musicman38 at mindspring.com Mon Feb 1 14:02:50 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (musicman38@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: CD-RW Drive Message-ID: <001401be4e1d$d98765e0$72eecdcf@server> -> I had a couple of disks that crashed on my HP CD writer when the energy >saving program put the computer to sleep. Make sure this is turned off!! >However was able to re-install the disks and make them recognizable using >the Adaptec software. > > Regards > > Charlie Fox Thanks Charlie, I will also check this out to, as the computer is also in energy save mode.. Phil... From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 14:29:26 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: NAPLIPS (was: interesting book) In-Reply-To: <199902011523.QAA25543@horus.mch.sni.de> (Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de) References: <199902011523.QAA25543@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <19990201202926.20082.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Hans Franke" wrote: > Speaking of Prestel (and of course CEPT :) does anybody know > what happend to NAPLIPS (North American Presentation Layer > ..???.. Standard - long time ago) - it was a NT (nice try) I believe NAPLPS was used by the Prodigy service (classic, not Prodigy Internet). Of course, Prodigy classic has lost big bucks every year, and they are finally closing it down. But rather than admitting that it was a stupid idea, they are blaming the shutdown on the Y2K problem. It appeared that NAPLPS may also have been used for some children's entertainment/education channels on cable systems. These channels had animation that slowly updated, and you could watch things like flood fills proceed line by line. NAPLPS used to be an ANSI standard, but a few years ago I saw a notice that ANSI was withdrawing it. So now you can sell your L@@K RARE K00L copy of the standard on ePay for thousands of dollars. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 14:41:04 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:05:12 -0800) References: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <19990201204104.20141.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck wrote: > I remember the KL-10's at USC had 4 MWord memories that took up an entire > rack. (4 Mword is about 16 mByte), so in 70's tech that my video card would > be two racks, main memory would be 8 racks, ... Sounds like USC was using the Ampex ARM-10 semiconductor memory box, the same as Scott and I have on our KL10. DEC never offerred a single-box 4 MWord solution; AFAIK they never offered any 4 MWord solution at all. The ARM-10 uses 64K DRAMs, so it must contain about 2752 of them. Of course, since the 64K DRAM wasn't introduced until 1981, it came about rather late in the life of the KL10, which itself was introduced in 1975. I have had in mind for some time to design a true "tube" CD Player. Not the stupid "tube CD players" that are sold now, in which only the analog output state is made with tubes, but one in which there are no ICs or transistors. I think this could be packaged in two 19-inch racks (maybe one if you can pack it really densely). I wonder how many audiophiles would be willing to buy one at a price of $50K to $100K? Although it would be nice to arrange to have no semiconductors in it at all, realistically I think that semiconductor diodes will be necessary, just as they were used in most tube-based computers. Otherwise you just need too dang many tubes. A little-known fact about the CD format is that it was specifically designed (in the mid to late 1970s) so that a minimal player does not necessarily need a microprocessor. A few early prototypes were developed that had no microprocessor, but AFAIK all production CD players did in fact have one. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 14:44:34 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: CDC 9766 Drive and packs In-Reply-To: (message from John Lawson on Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:19:26 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990201204434.20186.qmail@brouhaha.com> John Lawson wrote: > Is anyone on the List, in the Southern California area, interested in a > CDC 9766 350MP top loader, with three disk packs? This unit was attached This drive is equivalent to (and pack-interchangeable with) the DEC RM05, but it is not electrically interchangeable with the DEC drive. DEC had CDC customize the drive interface for use in the RM05. It NEEDS three-phase power, and a fair amount of it, to run the AC synchronous spindle motor. This is not something that can easily be converted to run on single-phase, so don't get the idea that you can run it in your house or garage. But they are great drives, and it would be a shame for them to be scrapped. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 13:03:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: from "Jgzabol@aol.com" at Feb 1, 99 08:30:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1392 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/8d71d79b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 12:50:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Some finds and a few questions In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Jan 31, 99 10:49:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/8f19fe75/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 12:42:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Some finds and a few questions In-Reply-To: <199902010515.XAA29550@trailingedge.com> from "David Williams" at Jan 31, 99 11:15:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 793 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/85a00de4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 12:58:40 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990201082512.211f0438@earthlink.net> from "Dave Dameron" at Feb 1, 99 08:25:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/5cbc3292/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 14:53:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990201104406.0331e950@office.ao.com> from "Gary Oliver" at Feb 1, 99 11:11:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 433 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/1d7f731b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 15:00:06 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer) In-Reply-To: <19990201204104.20141.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 1, 99 08:41:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/e823fd62/attachment.ksh From nfields at ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 1 15:21:21 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Collecting computers - the book and the web site. References: <199902011732.MAA27432@saturn.golden.net> Message-ID: <36B61AD0.A0A117E9@ix.netcom.com> Where can someone purchase a copy of your book? Its not listed on amazon.com. Thanks Noel Unusual systems wrote: > Greetings. There was a two month gap in my participation on the List until > recently. Somehow, and no one has yet explained it, my subscription was > removed (this happened again two weeks ago). Unfortunately, I missed a brief > discussion of the book I wrote - it was reviewed in Dr. Dobb's Journal. Had > I known, I would have contributed. To make matters even worse, the > Classiccmp archive maintained by Kevan Heydon (many thanks man), also > suffered from a technical glitch and needed to be restored. Now I've finally > read the thread and please accept two observations and two invitations. > > Observation #1 - the books' identity crisis > The book is a guide about the hobby of collecting computers and not a > traditional collector's price guide. In a perfect world one would first read > the guide to collecting and then want to read a collector's guide - the > first guide stokes and refines the interest while the second guide assists > in ensuring a collection is complete and in determining how much to buy and > sell for. > > Observation #2 - the book's other identity crisis > The book is for both seasoned collectors and beginners. It is not JUST a > book for anyone who thinks collecting computers could be neat. Sure the > guide will, by design help the novice, but it's equal strength is in helping > the existing collector by affirming our practices and techniques and, by all > means, sharing some of the practice and techniques the veteran collector > might not know about. We should all be open to accepting our knowledge-gaps. > In fact, a computer collector might not consider their collection complete > without a copy of the first-ever book about collecting computers. > > Invitation #1 - answering questions about profilees > I've been asked why some collectors were omitted and even why some were > included. I expected such questions. As an author with a deadline and goal > in mind I invited collectors who exemplified the experienced collector, the > new collector, the big collector, the small collector, the international > collector, etc trying to show how collecting is the same all over the world > - same passions and problems. These collectors would/could also be > role-models. The book might have included more profiles if the collectors > had responded on a timely basis and with answers to the questions I asked. > One collector didn't remember the dates and circumstances surrounding his > most important acquisitions so I rejected the story because it was > incomplete (even after several attempts to help improve its accuracy). > Please send your questions about the book to me directly. > > Invitation #2 - my first attempt at building a web site > Please take a moment to visit my site. See the orphan 360/22 mainframe > (orphan because it was announced the same year the 370 series was!) and a > few other systems that aren't that popular. > > Thank you. Happy collecting. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------- > Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca > +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 > > Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from > the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. > > Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & > Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 > . From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Feb 1 16:08:21 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: CDC 9766 Drive and packs In-Reply-To: <19990201204434.20186.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 1 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > John Lawson wrote: > > Is anyone on the List, in the Southern California area, interested in a (snip) > > It NEEDS three-phase power, and a fair amount of it, to run the AC > synchronous spindle motor. This is not something that can easily be > converted to run on single-phase, so don't get the idea that you can > run it in your house or garage. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ayyy! Sez 'oo? While single-to-three-phase converters are not normally household items, they exist and are usefull for such endeavors. The ones in my shop have the added bonus of being variable speed/torque/inrush .... handy for starting up long-dormant machinery. But it is a trivial matter to run any three-pahse motor from single phase... one uses capacitors to shift the phases of the windings in proper relationship. It takes a knowledge of R/C networks and a good AC ammeter to finely balance the currents in the leads, but it can be done for the price of the caps. If one has access to a large surplus or appliance salvage yard, so much the better. I have run several machines this way. The drawbacks are: it's grossly inefficient starting torque is low careful 'tuning' is required for proper sync. > But they are great drives, and it would be a shame for them to be scrapped. I'd rather not sell this one (though the offer was from a company who maintains and re-builds them... so at least the cadaver would be used to keep other drives alive) but it's taking up precious room and it's *heavy*. > > Eric > Thanks for the amplifying info... I did not know the RM05 was mechanically similar. Cheerz John From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Mon Feb 1 16:08:21 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Collecting computers - the book and the web site. Message-ID: <199902012208.RAA05411@saturn.golden.net> >Where can someone purchase a copy of your book? Its not listed on amazon.com. > > Thanks > > Noel > Thank you for inquiring. The book is self-published. Ordering details are at the bottom of this message. I also had an arrangement with the Vintage Computer Festival for copies to be sold at the VCF 3.0 and given away as prizes. Some copies are still available; see the VCF web site. ---------------------------------------------------------- A Guide to Collecting Computers and Computer Collectibles: History, Practice, and Technique 1st Edition ---------------------------------------------------------- This book is about the hobby of collecting computers and things related to computers. It's about the hobby in general for novices who are interested starting, building and maintaining a collection. It's also for veteran collectors as an attempt to bring us and a few of our stories, experience, and advice together. This book wouldn't be complete without also paying tribute to the pioneers in the field and so it includes coverage of many wonderful private collections and related "how I got started" stories. This book is simply the best resource you'll find to help you get started and flourish as a computer collector. This book has nine chapters, plus a section on resources. By reading this book you'll discover what to collect, how to collect, and how to manage your collection, including how to clean and store computers. Each chapter opens with an Anecdote and ends with an Profile. A Profile tells you about another collector - why or how they started collecting and a description of their collection. I am humbled by their acceptance to participate in this endeavour. You'll know what I mean after you read about them. Anecdotes are mostly from my own experiences. They no doubt pale in light of your own. Each Anecdote is a brief story about the trials, tribulations and thrills of collecting. I have not tried to make this a pricing guide, although the topic of Appraising is covered, and there isn't any photographs. I have tried to make this book: * a practical reference; * an entertaining piece of popular history; * an encouragement. TABLE OF CONTENTS ----------------------------------------------------------- 1. Collecting Computers ANECDOTE.........How A PDP-9 Fixed A Leaky Garage Roof Why do people collect computers? Who collects computers? History of the hobby. Future of the hobby. How to collect computers. PROFILE.............Kevin Stumpf 2. What's collectible? ANECDOTE.........The Last Sigma 9 Collecting terminology. Collect computers. Don't collect computers. What will you collect? PROFILE.............Doug Jones 3. Sourcing ANECDOTE.........Stupid Internet Thread Yields 360/75 Sources. Techniques. Where will you go? PROFILE.............Jay Jaeger 4. Appraising ANECDOTE.........B220 Control Panel Not Lost In Space Techniques. What is value? How much would you pay? PROFILE.............Thierry Schembri 5. Acquiring ANECDOTE.........The Case of the Shrinking 705 Establishing terms of ownership. Getting your acquisition home. PROFILE.............Bob Roswell 6. Cataloging ANECDOTE.........Old GUI Computer Helps Resolve Sticky Situation What should you catalog? Tell it's story. How to catalog. PROFILE.............Bill von Hagen 7. Storing ANECDOTE.........An Old Car For An Old Computer: Fair Trade? Where are good places to store computers? Storage conditions Preparing for storage. PROFILE.............Bob Manners 8. Restoring/Repairing ANECDOTE.........Here's A Couple of Computers Beyond Repair Cleaning. Authenticity. Before you turn it on... PROFILE.............Carl Friend 9. Interesting Things to do with old computers ANECDOTE.........What Does A Crane and A 360/22 Have In Common? Educational. Crafty. Practical. PROFILE.............Tom Carlson ORDERING INFO ---------------------------------------------------------------- Copies are available for $18 + $4 (S&H) prepaid each, direct from the publisher. Please send your order to: Unusual systems 220 Samuel Street Kitchener, Ontario N2H 1R6 For more information send a message to kstumpf@unusual.on.ca. Please allow 4 weeks for shipping. WE'RE READY TO TAKE YOUR ORDER. THANK YOU. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From elvey at hal.com Mon Feb 1 16:28:50 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer) In-Reply-To: <19990201204104.20141.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902012228.OAA21025@civic.hal.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > A little-known fact about the CD format is that it was specifically designed > (in the mid to late 1970s) so that a minimal player does not necessarily need > a microprocessor. A few early prototypes were developed that had no > microprocessor, but AFAIK all production CD players did in fact have one. > > Eric Hi Eric Building analog filters of the quality needed to do CD's is going to be some trick. Even many early designs used switched capacitor filters to get the needed responses. Tubes as digital multipliers would require massive amounts of parallelism to keep up. IMHO Dwight From aknight at mindspring.com Mon Feb 1 16:29:40 1999 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: RS Color Computer 2 available In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990201084407.007ac3c0@mail.wincom.net> References: <36B52AFF.3B004629@mindspring.com> <199812272114.AA01822@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990201172940.007d9180@mindspring.com> Hi, I've added to my "for trade" list a Tandy/Radio Shack Color Computer 2 64K (model 26-3127), with one original joystick, cables for cassette (cassette not included), and five cartridges: "Dungeons of Daggorath", "Don Pan", "Roman Checkers", "Downland", and "Color Scripsit". No docs, but I've done a basic checkout on the machine and cartridges and everything appears OK. Also, I still have the following available from my trade list: - Kaypro 4 (comes on, asks for boot disk, but I don't have any disks) - Heathkit ET-3400A Microprocessor Trainer with 6802 processor - one of my bound, 6-issue volumes of Scientific American, this one Jan-June 1965, which has a number of ads for old computers including a color ad for the "straight-8" - Timex/Sinclair 1000 manual & Osborne book on T/S 1000 ... plus a bunch of calculator-related stuff, the rest can be viewed at: http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/trade.htm To see what I'm looking for, look at: http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/wanted.htm I've had a few responses to stuff in the past wanting to buy things outright, but I strongly prefer to trade my finds for other folks' finds. I would encourage those of you who don't collect calculator stuff to be on the lookout for certain types when you're out looking for things at thrifts,surplus, etc. - a look at my web page and "wanted" list should help to give you an idea of stuff that would be desirable. That being said, I would consider reasonable cash offers on any of the computer-related items, as I prefer to concentrate on calculator stuff. Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From bsa3 at cornell.edu Mon Feb 1 16:35:25 1999 From: bsa3 at cornell.edu (Brad Ackerman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed Message-ID: Tony Eros was the first to respond (by 90 minutes), and so claims the computer. Thanks for all the offers -- I really didn't want to see this computer junked. Christian: [re your query] The machine has been sitting in an office as is for a while. I imagine the missing parts got Dumpstered(tm) long ago, unfortunately. Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home bsa3@cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them." http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998 From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Feb 1 16:39:33 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer) In-Reply-To: <19990201204104.20141.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990201173609.009779e0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 08:41 PM 2/1/99 +0000, Eric Smith said something like: > >I have had in mind for some time to design a true "tube" CD Player. Not >the stupid "tube CD players" that are sold now, in which only the analog >output state is made with tubes, but one in which there are no ICs or >transistors. I think this could be packaged in two 19-inch racks (maybe And including a gaseous tube laser Eric? Remember, completely Hollow State, not Solid State! :-) >one if you can pack it really densely). I wonder how many audiophiles >would be willing to buy one at a price of $50K to $100K? > -- Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Feb 1 16:50:49 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990201174640.00965a40@206.231.8.2> Very good! Now Tony, you have the responsibility to completely photograph this machine and try to find a correct keyboard and PSU. Some of us will appreciate seeing the photos and comments to learn (or relive!) this interesting machine. I know I'll keep an eye cocked for the parts to help get this machine restored. And to think this machine was only about 3 or 4 hours drive from here! Good luck with it :) Regards, Chris Upon the date 05:35 PM 2/1/99 -0500, Brad Ackerman said something like: >Tony Eros was the first to respond (by 90 minutes), and so claims the >computer. Thanks for all the offers -- I really didn't want to see this >computer junked. > >Christian: [re your query] The machine has been sitting in an office as >is for a while. I imagine the missing parts got Dumpstered(tm) long ago, >unfortunately. > >Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home >bsa3@cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them." >http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998 Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 16:59:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990201173609.009779e0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Feb 1, 99 05:39:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 464 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/d3b74159/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 17:12:56 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990201231256.21423.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > See if anyone had the printset for a PDP8/e or a PDP8/a or just about any > of the Unibus PDP11s, or a Nova 1200, or a Philips P850, or a.... > > But don't start out trying to understand the PDP11/45 like I did... It's > got about 1000 chips in it, and it's not simple. It is highly optimised. The 11/05 is a really good machine to start with. It is slightly more complex than an 8/e, but the hardware implementation style is much closer to that of "modern" machines. I haven't seen 11/04 prints, but it is probably also a good machine for hardware education purposes. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 17:19:40 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990201231940.21446.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell > I don't think many CD players have a microprocessor in the audio decoding > section. In other words the error correction, etc is done by dedicated > logic. Of course. Even today, few microcontrollers would be fast enough to do the decode and error detection/correction in real time. It wouldn't be cost-effective to implement that way. Dedicated logic in a gate array or custom chip is easier, and it only takes a few thousand gates. In a design optimized for tubes, the number of gates could be reduced substantially, but for gate array implementation there was no motivation to work hard at reducing the gate count. > But even the early players had, perhaps, 2K RAM in the decoder > section that would be a pain to do with valves. That's the de-interleave memory. It would be implemented with core memory. > Microprocessors are normally used in the user interface and servo control > sections of CD players (although the servos themselves can be entirely > analogue and only use the microprocessor for track skips, etc). The early CD players used analog servos; the newer ones use a simple DSP embedded in the decoder chipset. I've never seen a CD player that used a general-purpose microcontroller as part of the servo system, though I suppose it is possible. > But it would be possible to not use them there without too much work. My point was that the CD format (and specifically, the "P" subcode) was deliberately designed not just so that a microprocessorless CD player could be built, but that it actually would be easy, and that it still could have track forward skip and track reverse skip buttons. Of course, by the time CD players were commercially manufactured, it was more cost-effective to simply use a mask-programmed four-bit microcontroller. Cheers, Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 17:23:12 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: CDC 9766 Drive and packs In-Reply-To: (message from John Lawson on Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:08:21 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990201232312.21482.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > so don't get the idea that you can > run it in your house or garage. John Lawson replied: > Ayyy! Sez 'oo? [...] > But it is a trivial matter to run any three-pahse motor from > single phase... one uses capacitors to shift the phases of the > windings in proper relationship. It takes a knowledge of R/C > networks and a good AC ammeter to finely balance the currents in the > leads, but it can be done for the price of the caps. If one has > access to a large surplus or appliance salvage yard, so much the > better. I have run several machines this way. Have you actually run a 9766 or another comparable drive that way? Everybody talks about doing it, but I've never yet heard any documented case of it being done for a removable-pack disk drive using an AC synchronous spindle motor. I'll believe it when there's a documented case of it being done, and working successfully. Until then, I'll stand by my claim. Cheers, Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 17:28:27 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <199902012228.OAA21025@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:28:50 -0800 (PST)) References: <199902012228.OAA21025@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990201232827.21519.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dwight Elvey replied to my post about building a true "tube" CD player: > Building analog filters of the quality needed to do CD's > is going to be some trick. Even many early designs used > switched capacitor filters to get the needed responses. > Tubes as digital multipliers would require massive > amounts of parallelism to keep up. No problem. The tube CD player simply has an AES/EBU (or S/P-DIF) coaxial digital output. If you want a tube D/A to go with it, that's a separate product. The tube D/A would likely not use oversampling, but rather an 8-pole analog filter. If people want a tube oversampling D/A, that can be a more advanced, larger, and more expensive model. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 17:30:58 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990201173609.009779e0@206.231.8.2> (message from Christian Fandt on Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:39:33 -0500) References: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <4.1.19990201173609.009779e0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <19990201233058.21569.qmail@brouhaha.com> Christian Fandt replied to my post about an all-tube CD-player: > And including a gaseous tube laser Eric? Remember, completely Hollow State, > not Solid State! :-) Of course. It would use a HeNe laser, just like the early laser video disc players. The part I haven't figured out is the photodetector. Even those early LD players used a phototransistor for the detector. From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Mon Feb 1 17:30:48 1999 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed Message-ID: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B024E2CBD@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> This looks like a great candidate for a well-documented restoration -- I'll be taking a ton of photographs and will welcome any and all suggestions and pointers to parts, etc. Thanks! -- Tony ---------- From: Christian Fandt[SMTP:cfandt@netsync.net] Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 5:50 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: 1130 has been claimed Very good! Now Tony, you have the responsibility to completely photograph this machine and try to find a correct keyboard and PSU. Some of us will appreciate seeing the photos and comments to learn (or relive!) this interesting machine. I know I'll keep an eye cocked for the parts to help get this machine restored. And to think this machine was only about 3 or 4 hours drive from here! Good luck with it :) Regards, Chris Upon the date 05:35 PM 2/1/99 -0500, Brad Ackerman said something like: >Tony Eros was the first to respond (by 90 minutes), and so claims the >computer. Thanks for all the offers -- I really didn't want to see this >computer junked. > >Christian: [re your query] The machine has been sitting in an office as >is for a while. I imagine the missing parts got Dumpstered(tm) long ago, >unfortunately. > >Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home >bsa3@cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them." >http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998 Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 17:37:24 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990201233724.21623.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > Why not? There's a picture of a prototype audio or video disk player in > an early 70's issue of 'Television' magazine that uses a HeNe laser tube Prototype? Bah! *PRODUCTION* laser video disc players used HeNe tubes. > What are you going to use as a photodetector? A photomultiplier tube? > Can't have a solid-state detector, of course :-). Well, if I resign myself to using semiconductor diodes (like most tube computers did), I guess using a photodiode detector would be OK. On the other hand, that same reasoning suggests that a laser diode would be OK, but that would spoil some of the fun. Another problem is that standard CD transport mechanisms, in addition to using solid-state lasers and photodetectors, also use brushless DC motors incorporating semiconductor hall-effect sensors and a control IC. I suppose I'd build an early prototype the CD player using a standard CD transport, but that wouldn't be suitable for the finished product. Actually, I fully intend to build a proof-of-concept prototype that does use semiconductors. But it will not use an standard CD chips; instead it will be implemented entirely out of 74xx parts, standard memories, and perhaps PLDs or FPGAs. The purpose of the proof-of-concept prototype is that if I can't build a working CD player out of that stuff, there's no way I can build one out of tubes. From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 1 17:45:57 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Daily Laugh! References: <199901312245.RAA07944@dgs.cs.unc.edu> <3.0.6.32.19990131175915.007aca30@pop.tvec.net> Message-ID: <36B63CB5.BEDD0778@rain.org> jax wrote: > > You might look into this: > > http://lpwa./file/project_index.html > > It's really a Bell Labs/Lucent proxy server for webheads. All your TCP/IP > packets are stripped of your fingerprint and the system can handle Tried it a couple of times and keep getting a no DNS name error. That address doesn't look quite right. I tried lpwa.org and got a hit, but nothing that matches your entry. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 1 18:01:10 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Daily Laugh! In-Reply-To: <36B63CB5.BEDD0778@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 1, 99 03:45:57 pm Message-ID: <199902020001.QAA12074@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 841 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990201/223bc463/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 1 17:49:19 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: "Hans Franke"'s message of Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:34:51 +1 References: <8B57882C41A0D1118F7100805F9F68B50C178F16@RED-MSG-45> <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199902012349.PAA10156@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Hans Franke" wrote: > BTW: this E symbol is one of the 4 most stupid ideas around > the euro - a typical pice of shit like most ideas developed > by politicians. Don't get me wrong, the Euro is a good idea, > but they tried to make it as stupid as possible. The cynic in me wonders whether the funny-looking E isn't something pushed either before or after the political accomplishment by computer companies wanting to churn the installed base. I mean, Y2K has a definite sell-by date. So does this but I think it's another couple years out, right? ObCC: so what did you UKans do to get your funny-looking L on computers, terminals, and printers imported from ASCII-speaking countries? -Frank McConnell From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Mon Feb 1 18:22:21 1999 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: TI99: WP and PC Message-ID: <01be4e42$193ba560$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999 3:49 Subject: Re: TI99: WP and PC >P.S.: I've been told there was a Nixdorf computer where they > build a (TTL) CPU based on the 9900 design. I've got some bits of a Nixdorf something or other. Basically it's the backplane, minus the rack and mountings, plus the power supply, some drives, and cables and a couple of boxes full of modules. Chip dates are around 74. Anyone know anything about Nixdorfs of this era? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 1 18:28:43 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: TI99: WP and PC Message-ID: <199902020028.AA09311@world.std.com> "Re: Euro on old computers" (Feb 1, 15:49) References: <8B57882C41A0D1118F7100805F9F68B50C178F16@RED-MSG-45> <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <9902020045.ZM20391@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 1, 15:49, Frank McConnell wrote: > ObCC: so what did you UKans do to get your funny-looking L on > computers, terminals, and printers imported from ASCII-speaking > countries? It's character 0xA3 (decimal 163, octal 243) in ISO Latin 1, and most systems that don't have a special key for it map it to the "#" key. On older systems, quite often the drivers replace the "#" character with the pound symbol, but some replace the "$". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Feb 1 18:41:33 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: Eric Smith "tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer))" (Feb 1, 23:30) References: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <4.1.19990201173609.009779e0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <9902020041.ZM20372@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 1, 23:30, Eric Smith wrote: > Of course. It would use a HeNe laser, just like the early laser video > disc players. > > The part I haven't figured out is the photodetector. Even those early LD > players used a phototransistor for the detector. Would a selenium cell be fast enough? A CdS photresistor probably wouldn't be, I think. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 18:01:44 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: vacuum tube computer In-Reply-To: <19990201231256.21423.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 1, 99 11:12:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1496 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/cf12c8e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 18:03:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <19990201231940.21446.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 1, 99 11:19:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/e6724dfd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 18:07:25 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <19990201232827.21519.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 1, 99 11:28:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 663 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/bdcb6a05/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 18:13:28 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <19990201233724.21623.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 1, 99 11:37:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2774 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/01a60ad7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 18:54:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:52 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <199902012349.PAA10156@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Feb 1, 99 03:49:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1124 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/f76d5da1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 1 18:57:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <9902020041.ZM20372@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Feb 2, 99 00:41:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/f058834f/attachment.ksh From go at ao.com Mon Feb 1 19:19:22 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <9902020041.ZM20372@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <4.1.19990201110046.00b388f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990201171242.03373240@office.ao.com> I believe I recall a demonstration on tv in the mid 60s (1964 or so) that showed a television signal being sent over a light beam. The receiver was possibly a silicon "solar" cell. I think selenium MIGHT be fast enough, but a photoresistive cell like CdS would be way too slow. I remember trying to use a CdS cell to do a "talk over a light beam" experiment as a kid. Barely worked. Changed to a silicon cell that came out of a 1950s photometer and it worked great. Granted it was about 2cm X 4cm - a bit larger than optimal for the beam sensor on a CD. I don't believe a silicon device would be entirely anachronistic - even my 1940-something flexowriter has silicon diodes in it. Big hurky cartridge diodes, but silicon, none-the-less - at least that's what they appear to be from their electrical characteristics. Gary At 12:41 AM 2/2/99 +0000, you wrote: >On Feb 1, 23:30, Eric Smith wrote: > >> Of course. It would use a HeNe laser, just like the early laser video >> disc players. >> >> The part I haven't figured out is the photodetector. Even those early LD >> players used a phototransistor for the detector. > >Would a selenium cell be fast enough? A CdS photresistor probably wouldn't >be, I think. > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 1 19:28:46 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: new toy! Message-ID: <199902020128.AA26338@world.std.com> <> The 1002 HOST interface has a different address, register command though there are similarities wbeing both from WD. < In any case adding a hard disk to kaypro requires utility software, an <> interface and BIOS. < >For ASCII text we tend to use 'L', 'UKP', 'GBP', or \pounds to mean a >pound sign. Or do what at least one catalogue I have (a current >catalogue, BTW), and give all prices in pence. This catalogue includes >things like 3600p (meaning \pounds 36.00), I guess because they couldn't >print a pound sign. Which brings up the question: What is the symbol or abbreviation for one hundredth of a Euro? Francois > > >-tony > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 1 19:43:28 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) Message-ID: <199902020143.AA07334@world.std.com> <> The part I haven't figured out is the photodetector. Even those early L <> players used a phototransistor for the detector. < (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990202020053.22518.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell > And the only part of a CD player that should have any effect on the sound > is the DAC and the analogue filtering after it. If the transport, or the > deinterleaving, or the servos, or the PSU, or the... has any effect on > the sound, then something isn't working properly. Sure, you know that, and I know that. But part of the fun of building the tube CD player is laughing at the so-called golden-ears audiophiles that think that running a green magic marker around the rim of their CD makes it sound better. And even more of the fun is convincing those bozos to send me money. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 20:04:04 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990202020404.22534.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > I would suggest getting an old Philips CD player, the service manual for > it (which should exist), and the Philips audio IC databook. Apart from An excellent idea. But then, I think I'm the one that told you about having reverse-engineered the Philips CM-100 CD-ROM drive, specifically because it was their very first model and used no custom chips (other than the documented CD-audio decoder), and used an 8031 with an external EPROM for firmware. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 20:06:30 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990202020630.22553.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > A photomultiplier isn't that bad to use. OK, it needs a kilovolt or so of > EHT. But apart from that it's a fairly easy device to connect up and get > a useable signal from. There should be a lot of them still about, and > small ones aren't that expensive second-hand. The tricky part is how to mate this with the mechanical assembly. Even the laserdisc players that used a HeNe laser still used a semiconductor photodetector that was directly mounted on the sled. Dang, I should have bought one of those old LD players when there were scads of them in the surplus stores, so I could study how they were built. From gram at cnct.com Mon Feb 1 20:14:58 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > ObCC: so what did you UKans do to get your funny-looking L on > > computers, terminals, and printers imported from ASCII-speaking > > countries? > > In TeX (which is all I really need), it's \pounds. IIRC the equivalent of > $ in the italic font is a pound sign, or something. I sort of like the idea expressed in the _Red Dwarf_ SF TV comedy where the money in the future is expressed in "dollarpounds", and amounts are preceded by both symbols, at least in the novelisations. Any time the politicians are changing the definition of the money, you know they're not going to kiss you afterwards. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 1 20:16:06 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <199902020143.AA07334@world.std.com> (allisonp@world.std.com) References: <199902020143.AA07334@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990202021606.22600.qmail@brouhaha.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > The problem is the LASER postdates transistors! The optical light source > would have to be a collminated point source The objective of the project is not to build a CD player out of only materials available in the 1940s (although that would be quite a challenge). It is simply to build a CD player that contains no transistors. Those silly golden-ears audiophiles think that transistors sound bad, so I'd love to part them from a few hundred thousand dollars of their money by selling them a CD player that doesn't contain any of the pesky things. By this criteria, I could even use a laser diode, and a photodiode as the detector. But I'm not sure whether the common CD transport mechanisms use a photodiode or a phototransistor, and I can't use the latter. Anyhow, using a HeNe laser is preferred because it is a tube. > Memory is easy, delay lines really big ones! A delay line isn't particularly suitable for the principle memory requirement of a CD player. As was pointed out before, early CD players used a 2K*8 SRAM. Newer players use more memory, and in current players that memory tends to be inside the CD-Audio decoder chip. But the problem is the purpose of the memory. It serves both as a FIFO to retime the data to match the crystal-locked timing of the D/A subsystem, and to de-interleave the data from the disc. The deinterleave process needs to be able to write the data in an entirely different order than it is read back, hence a delay line is not usable. Also, since a delay line generally has a fixed delay (aside from temperature dependencies and the like), it also can't really be used for the rate matching. Core memory definitely seems like the correct approach. A Williams tube would be neat, but it is too slow, and anyhow they are too hard to find or fabricate. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Feb 1 21:13:31 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 2, 99 00:54:29 am Message-ID: <199902020313.TAA28904@saul9.u.washington.edu> > Which reminds me, is there a metafont definition of the Euro symbol? I am > not likely to need it anytime soon, but somebody should produce one. That topic has been quite actively discussed on comp.text.tex. I think there is a METAFONT version now -- possibly more than one. There is also a package that fakes the symbol without METAFONT, and there's a package for using the logo in PostScript form. Supposedly, many of those packages are against EU directives, because the symbol is supposed to ALWAYS look the same, regardless of the font you're using!? Silly politicians... -- Derek From dburrows at netpath.net Mon Feb 1 21:16:07 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Bernoulli cartridges Message-ID: <000f01be4e5a$8351ec80$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> >In a message dated 1/30/99 8:58:55 PM Central Standard Time, >dburrows@netpath.net writes: > >> I recently picked up about 30 150meg Bernoulli cartridges that have never >> been opened. According to the chart on the back they should work on the >> 90meg. >> Dan >> >hmm, i don't have any new ones, so the chart you are talking about makes >no sense to me. Can you write to the 150's with the 90M drive? perhaps, >format the cartridges as 90's? Is that what it means? > >just curious. >kelly I have no clue other than the vague chart on the back. It looks like a 150 drive will read write format with a * for reduced performance a 90 meg cart. It does not say anything about using 150m media in a 90m drive. This makes me think the media will fit but will have to be formatted. To be sure I would contact IOmega. The only Bernoulli drive I have ever used was a just released 20m (I think) back on a then new 286. If you are still interested contact me off list. With the arrangements I have with the scrapper I got them from to list members I am only looking for $5.00 ea. plus shipping. If they are to be going into commercial use that price WILL be higher. Dan From brett at xnet.com Mon Feb 1 21:43:00 1999 From: brett at xnet.com (Brett Crapser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Z3 builders In-Reply-To: <199902011800.TAA28480@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > I was wandering around the net and found - 4PDT relays with sockets. > > > > Price - $2.00 - 24DC coils. > > > 4PDT ? > > > Whats that ? > > 4 poles, double throw. Said another way, four individual switched > > circuts, each with two possible paths. Bad ASCII art: > > > _________ > > _____/ > > _________ > > > > :))) Perfect ASCII art ! > > 24V is high, do you got any size measurements ? > Or better a web site ? Oh Hans - What a dunce I am! They are 4PDT 12V DC 185 ohm coils.... Rated at 2A 29V DC contacts. With socket 1.1 x 0.7 x 1.3 inches er 28 x 18 x 33 mm Quanity unknown Part Number TF154-CC $2.00 US BC From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Feb 1 22:15:46 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... (was list (was: Daily Laugh!)) In-Reply-To: <199902011848.AA03265@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Megan wrote: > I hope you're kidding about the Altair serial number 1... I would > rather hope that he would be investigated for 1) stealing it in > the first place, or 2) accepting stolen property... I assume you're talking about my (joke) reply about the UPS man auctioning it off. One must wonder where this box ended up though. It had to have landed in someone's lap. My guess is that by coincidence it landed in the hands of someone who'd been wanting an Altair and maybe wished for one the night before it was accidentally delivered to their doorstep. So he kept it thinking his wish came true. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 1 22:39:56 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... (was list (was: Daily Laugh!)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > One must wonder where this box ended up though. It had to have landed in > someone's lap. My guess is that by coincidence it landed in the hands of > someone who'd been wanting an Altair and maybe wished for one the night > before it was accidentally delivered to their doorstep. So he kept it > thinking his wish came true. C'mon, I thought you knew your shrikwrapped Altair folklore: Ed Roberts was toiling away on unsuccessful calculators and other gadgets in the New Mexico desert, when an indian chief shared his pipe with him. Roberts saw many things that night. After several UFOs, aliens, and half-human / half-coyote people native to that region of New Mexico finally left, Roberts suddenly knew: * how to build a computer * where the Star Ship Enterprise was going that week * and to hire a kid named Bill Gates Everything went fine until he tried to ship the first machine to Sol Libes via freight train. The train entered the Bermuda Triangle and was never seen again. However, if you watch the episode of Star Trek that was aired that night, you'll see a strange blue box that appears in the transporter room after Spock returns from the planet Imsai. Weird, huh? -- Doug From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Feb 1 22:51:05 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: References: <199901312238.QAA08461@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <199902020448.WAA22988@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 01:35:19 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Doug To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > One info nugget of interest is that Tandy didn't make either the Pocket > Computer (Sharp) or the Model 100 (Kyocera). I'm not sure about the M200, > but I suspect it might have been made by Kyocera as well. Uncle Roger > knows more about all of the different Kyocera clones. > > -- Doug I kinda knew the Pocket was a Sharp -- a bank I worked for had similar units, made by Sharp, that were pre-programmed and supplied by the insurance agent who underwrote loan insurance. We used them to figure insurance premiums on different loan payments, as well as figure loan payments themselves. I didn't know about the Kyocera connection, however. Interesting.... While this display case will be exhibiting a variety of portables, the other case will be showing the origins of everything that people commonly think was invented by BillyG. Kind of a tribute to Hi-Toro/Amiga, Apple, PARC, ARPAnet, and NCSA, among others. Thanks. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 1 22:53:53 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: <199902020448.WAA22988@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Paul Braun wrote: > I didn't know about the Kyocera connection, however. Interesting.... > > While this display case will be exhibiting a variety of portables, the > other case will be showing the origins of everything that people > commonly think was invented by BillyG. Well, BillG did have some input into the Model 100. Legend has it that his last coding job was part of the ROM'd software that came with that machine: http://innovate.si.edu/history/gates/gates35.htm -- Doug From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Feb 1 23:00:00 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Plato terminal In-Reply-To: <221affe0.36b5a396@aol.com> Message-ID: <199902020457.WAA23075@garcon.laidbak.com> My first experience with a networked computer (my first computer experience was playing "Battleship" after hours with my dad on the brand-new Burroughs machine his bank bought -- this was '75 or '76) was in '79 when I visited U of I (Illinois) when I was looking at colleges to go to. In addition to terminals in the engineering labs, they had Plato terminals scattered throughout the campus. These were the ones with the orange plasma displays that were fairly adept at displaying graphics, in addition to projected slides. IIRC, the ones I played with also had touch screens. Pretty cool for the time. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 1 23:59:52 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: new toy! In-Reply-To: <199902020128.AA26338@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > The 8bit IDE looks like the 1002WA ISA 8bit controller. The 1002HDO host > interface however does not. In the 8bit worlds there seems to be three > different schemes. Gee, you are discouraging me, Allison! Out here, ST-351A/Xs have been common as armpits. Everyone seems to have a couple! Seemed like a neat/cheap idea. Guess not, though, as you point out below. > It's not easy. The host interface only allows for a few address lines and > 8bit IDE is both scarce ands strange. For practical use and the difficulty > of interface doing a 16bit IDE converter is more practical. The real > problem is you no matter what will be writing a bios for the kaypro. > People with the correct controller and MFM disk are already faced with > things like the drive needs replacing and there is no formatter or partition > utility if the drive is greater than 8mb. But again, if you have the TurboRom - and it is readily available - you have all that. > Oh, 40mb would have to be sliced (partitioned) into 5 8Mb logical drives > under cpm. I know as my SB180 and AmproLB both have 20 and 45mb drives. Of course, it's still CP/M. We haven't changed that. I have an ST-125N on my Ampro and it makes a LOT of partitions. Many more than I use, in fact, but I think I paid $5 for it, so who cares. > Under CPM even 5mb is a lot of space and a 1.44mb floppy is very roomy. > The 781k format allows me to have all of my most common utilities and > programming tools on one drive and work space on another. That good > enough. Not too shabby, I agree. - don > Allison > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Feb 2 00:46:53 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990201224653.00ebac00@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:39 PM 2/1/99 -0500, Doug wrote: >...Everything went fine until he tried to ship the first machine to Sol Libes >via freight train. The train entered the Bermuda Triangle and was never >seen again. However, if you watch the episode of Star Trek that was aired >that night, you'll see a strange blue box that appears in the transporter >room after Spock returns from the planet Imsai. Weird, huh? Which does bring to mind a question... (speaking of folklore and all...) The original design for the Altair as presented in those fateful issues of "Popular Electronics" had no bus or backplane, but was just four circuit boards wired together with ribbon cable. (as shown in a picture in part one of the article) It would seem, that true seekers of the 'Holy Grail' would be trying to determine if any machines in that original configuration were ever actually shipped! And then the task would be to find one of those! Now, THAT would be on a par with the Apple I ! Eh? Do I know? That would be telling... B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 2 00:52:27 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: RT-11 and TCP/IP Message-ID: OK, I'm back to trying to get Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP package running on RT-11. I've gone over the install procedure and am sure I'm doing it right. Tonite I was trying for both TSX+ and the RT-11 XM monitor using the EQ driver, and also the NQ driver that came with RT-11 for the XM monitor. I know the ethernet board is good as I'm able to use it under RSX-11M for DECnet. Howver, I'm getting the following error when I try to use FTP to connect to one of my other systems on my network. .ftpsb 192.168.1.41 FTPSB-11 V02.24 1-Nov-1998 Board initialization failed!. Error code=11 netinit() failed . Can anyone translate this and tell me what I'm doing? Has anyone here managed to successfully install the software? The other problem is that while the instructions say that the EQ drivers included will work on a system running the SJ or FB monitors, I can't get the driver to load. Yes, I realize it's not normal for the SJ/FB monitors to be able to use a EQ driver. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 2 01:02:21 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990201224653.00ebac00@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, James Willing wrote: > The original design for the Altair as presented in those fateful issues of > "Popular Electronics" had no bus or backplane, but was just four circuit > boards wired together with ribbon cable. (as shown in a picture in part one > of the article) > > It would seem, that true seekers of the 'Holy Grail' would be trying to > determine if any machines in that original configuration were ever actually > shipped! And then the task would be to find one of those! Aha, it's good that you bring this up. I can't think of a better candidate for the title of "Holy Grail" of computer collecting. I mean, the legend behind the first Altair is worthy of Holy Grail status for sure. Think about it: it has the same folklorishness and desirability as the cup that Jesus drank from during his last meal. The "first" microcomputer, the one that launched the home computer revolution, being lost during transit, never having been seen again. It has to be somewhere, even if that's at the bottom of a landfill. But I wonder. What if, just if, someone were to embark on a Quest. Venture back in time, interview those involved (a major undertaking in itslef since some have died and some just really don't care anymore) and try to track down exactly what happened to this package. Look for shipping invoices, try to determine who the delivery agents were, what route did it take. Basically trace the last journey of this first Altair and see if it leads you to the Holy Grail. And if you think a $12,100 Altair or a $6,100 Alto II on ebay is something, imagine what the first (in the truest sense) Altair would bring? > Now, THAT would be on a par with the Apple I ! Eh? > > Do I know? That would be telling... B^} You're bluffing. All subsequent Altairs sold were the backplane type. (I'm trying to elicit an admission of something fantabulous here that you're hiding from us ;) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From hansp at digiweb.com Tue Feb 2 01:13:23 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed References: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B024E2CBD@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: <36B6A593.DBFB4826@digiweb.com> Anthony Eros wrote: > This looks like a great candidate for a well-documented restoration -- I'll > be taking a ton of photographs and will welcome any and all suggestions and > pointers to parts, etc. We, (ACONIT in Grenoble, France) also have an 1130, seems complete with paper tape reader/punch and (what seems to be) a FULL set of maintenance docs including logic diagrams etc. Its not feasible (at this point) to copy it all for you but I will be happy to look up any information you may need and copy selected pages. There is an 1130 site on the web at which has the functional characteristics manual. Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 2 01:13:08 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > The "first" microcomputer, the one that launched the home computer > revolution, being lost during transit, never having been seen again. It > has to be somewhere, even if that's at the bottom of a landfill. No it doesn't. Here's the Real Story (TM): Ed Roberts had a publication deadline for this computer kit. He knew there was no way he was going to make that deadline, so he stalled. He told Sol that the box was on its way. Of course, it never showed, so they did a mock-up for the cover shoot, which is all Roberts ever had until the first orders came in, and then he was finally able to afford the components to build the first real Altair. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 2 01:31:54 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > No it doesn't. Here's the Real Story (TM): Ed Roberts had a publication > deadline for this computer kit. He knew there was no way he was going to > make that deadline, so he stalled. He told Sol that the box was on its > way. Of course, it never showed, so they did a mock-up for the cover > shoot, which is all Roberts ever had until the first orders came in, and > then he was finally able to afford the components to build the first real > Altair. You dumb-ass! You just ruined my ploy to get a hundred excited geeks jumping on the quickest plane, train or bus to New Mexico and embark on a futile search for the "first Altair". It would have been great to observe the spectacle but now you've spoiled it. My next practical joke will surely be sprung on you for this! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always being hassled by the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From hansp at digiweb.com Tue Feb 2 01:36:51 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Z3 builders References: Message-ID: <36B6AB13.29502C0D@digiweb.com> Brett Crapser wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > I was wandering around the net and found - 4PDT relays with sockets. > > > > > Price - $2.00 - 24DC coils. > > > > 4PDT ? > > > > Whats that ? > > > 4 poles, double throw. Said another way, four individual switched > > > circuts, each with two possible paths. Bad ASCII art: > > > > > _________ > > > _____/ > > > _________ > > > > > > > :))) Perfect ASCII art ! > > > > 24V is high, do you got any size measurements ? > > Or better a web site ? > > Oh Hans - What a dunce I am! > They are 4PDT 12V DC 185 ohm coils.... > Rated at 2A 29V DC contacts. With socket > > 1.1 x 0.7 x 1.3 inches er 28 x 18 x 33 mm > Quanity unknown Part Number TF154-CC $2.00 US seems to be the site in question. Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From dogas at leading.net Tue Feb 2 06:41:14 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... Message-ID: <01be4ea9$52676560$e2c962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Doug >No it doesn't. Here's the Real Story (TM): Ed Roberts had a publication >deadline... damn... I was envisioning BIllG and PaulA on horseback jumping onto the roof of a speeding train with guns (and whips) in hand... I'll have to cancel that memo to Steve Spielburg.... Heh... Mike: dogas@leading.net From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Feb 2 09:25:30 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: RT-11 and TCP/IP References: Message-ID: <36B718E9.AB0A5E41@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > OK, I'm back to trying to get Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP package running on > RT-11. I've gone over the install procedure and am sure I'm doing it > right. Tonite I was trying for both TSX+ and the RT-11 XM monitor using > the EQ driver, and also the NQ driver that came with RT-11 for the XM > monitor. > > I know the ethernet board is good as I'm able to use it under RSX-11M for > DECnet. > > Howver, I'm getting the following error when I try to use FTP to connect to > one of my other systems on my network. > > .ftpsb 192.168.1.41 > > FTPSB-11 V02.24 1-Nov-1998 > > Board initialization failed!. Error code=11 > netinit() failed > > .Can anyone translate this and tell me what I'm doing? Has anyone here > managed to successfully install the software? > > The other problem is that while the instructions say that the EQ drivers > included will work on a system running the SJ or FB monitors, I can't get > the driver to load. Yes, I realize it's not normal for the SJ/FB monitors > to be able to use a EQ driver. Jerome Fine replies: I know of one system that is running TCP/IP under TSX-PLUS with a UNIX system at the other end. I assume that it is the Baldwin version, but I am not sure. Which version of RT-11 are you using? It is possible that the EQ driver that came with the Baldwin package was not compatible with the version of RT-11? Also, the NQ driver may not be compatible with both the TCP/IP and the RT-11 or the TSX-PLUS? Just suggesting!!! I would presume that Alan Baldwin would have more definite information. I notice that the error message also included a DATE. Was that just a text string as part of the error code or an actual live running DATE? And does TCP/IP require the DATE to be correct as part of the running of the software? Under the RSX-11M version, must the DATE be set correctly? And are file creation dates sent along with the files? Then, of course, the real big question, does the Baldwin package need to be fixed for Y2K bugs? Or do all TCP/IP packages have a protocol that needs Y2K bugs fixed? If so, would that mean that that ONLY the official Y2K versions of RT-11 can be used with a TCP/IP that is Y2K compliant or would any version of RT-11 that have been made Y2K compliant be able to run a Y2K compliant version of TCP/IP? Sorry for the dumb questions on TCP/IP, but I don't use it myself at this point and I was thinking of putting it on a PDP-11 which I have available. Right now, the system uses Kermit to transfer files, which of course, is very slow. Since there is an RX50, that is used when there are a couple of floppies of data. The data is being transferred to a PC which can read the RT-11 format of the RX50 with the files. We are thinking of two solutions. The simple one would substitute an RX33 for the RX50. The second would be much more expensive. Place an Iomega Zip drive (the cartridge is 100 MBytes) on both the PC and the PDP-11. The PDP-11 is running V5.4G of RT-11 which has been patched to be Y2K compliant and the MSCP device driver has even been fixed so that non-zero partitions on the RD53 can also be booted after the initial hardware boot. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Feb 2 09:47:51 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > The "first" microcomputer, the one that launched the home computer > > revolution, being lost during transit, never having been seen again. It > > has to be somewhere, even if that's at the bottom of a landfill. > > No it doesn't. Here's the Real Story (TM): Ed Roberts had a publication > deadline for this computer kit. He knew there was no way he was going to > make that deadline, so he stalled. He told Sol that the box was on its > way. Of course, it never showed, so they did a mock-up for the cover > shoot, which is all Roberts ever had until the first orders came in, and > then he was finally able to afford the components to build the first real > Altair. Interesting theory, but then how do you explain the picture of the assembled '4 board and ribbon cable' unit shown in the body of the article? Or was this the precursor to the infamous "World Power Systems" scam? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 2 09:54:25 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: RT-11 and TCP/IP In-Reply-To: <36B718E9.AB0A5E41@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Feb 2, 99 10:25:30 am Message-ID: <199902021554.HAA03242@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2798 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/585112bc/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 2 09:53:17 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... References: Message-ID: <36B71F6D.69362E68@rain.org> Doug wrote: > > No it doesn't. Here's the Real Story (TM): Ed Roberts had a publication > deadline for this computer kit. He knew there was no way he was going to > make that deadline, so he stalled. He told Sol that the box was on its > way. Of course, it never showed, so they did a mock-up for the cover > shoot, which is all Roberts ever had until the first orders came in, and > then he was finally able to afford the components to build the first real > Altair. Any truth to this story? It certainly sounds plausable judging from what I have heard about MITS. If it is true, where did the story come from? From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Feb 2 10:59:16 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: KL power question Message-ID: <13424841935.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Whilst I sat cursing the PeeCee I was setting up [Win95: Holy Fsck! That's an AGP slot! How the hell do I talk to that? Oh well. 16 colors it is!] Toad says to me: [*** Warning: AC power has failed ***] [*** AC power has been restored ***] Hmm. Toad has an UPS. This provokes a question: Did KLs (Or any -10) have UPSes? Did TOPS know how to talk to an UPS, or is this an XKL hack? I bet it would be one hell of an UPS to run all that ECL... ------- From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 2 11:10:57 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: <36B71F6D.69362E68@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > Doug wrote: > > > > No it doesn't. Here's the Real Story (TM): Ed Roberts had a publication > > deadline for this computer kit. He knew there was no way he was going to > > make that deadline, so he stalled. He told Sol that the box was on its > > way. Of course, it never showed, so they did a mock-up for the cover > > shoot, which is all Roberts ever had until the first orders came in, and > > then he was finally able to afford the components to build the first real > > Altair. I sorta believe this but not as stated. To start with the PE publication schedual was articles for say january had to be in place TWO months before (beginning of november and a little earlier for the Christmass end of the year. Teh version shown in the article was a proto from the summer before and not the production version. There were numerous differences between the two but MITS was ready to ship though they were not prepared for the initial wave of orders (many times greater than expected). So those that ordered early got it fast then there was a period of about 6months where the delays were pretty long due to backlog. I beleive the pretty first production model was lost and required the substitution of the only complete sample for the article shoot in most likely late october. Allison From jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com Tue Feb 2 11:11:04 1999 From: jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com (John Dykstra) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990202111104.0092a900@47.161.112.121> >There is an 1130 site on the web at > which has the functional >characteristics manual. Thanks, Hans, for pointing this out. None of my web searches had found this site. Does anyone know of any other IBM 1130's in North America? I'd go a fair distance to see one again. ---- John Dykstra jdykstra@nortelnetworks.com Principal Software Architect voice: +1 651 415-1604 Nortel Networks fax: +1 612 932-8549 From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Feb 2 11:18:15 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: RT-11 and TCP/IP References: <199902021554.HAA03242@shell2.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <36B73357.E459D8BA@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'm embarassed to say I've never learned to use Kermit, and I STILL don't > have the blasted system talking to the RX-50! Jerome Fine replies: Any RQDX1,2,3 controller can support the RX50 dual drive from DEC. NOTE that the RQDX1 MUST be the last board in the backplane since it has no bus grant continuation. ONLY the RQDX3 supports the RX33. In a BA23, the use of just the RX50 is via the right hand header in the I/O distribution panel which is just in back of the space for drives. A straight through cable without any twists is the correct connection. Likewise for the cable from the RQDX3 to the I/O distribution panel via the little opening just below for I/O distribution panel. > > the PC and the PDP-11. The PDP-11 is running V5.4G > > of RT-11 which has been patched to be Y2K compliant > > and the MSCP device driver has even been fixed so that > > non-zero partitions on the RD53 can also be booted after > > the initial hardware boot. > I've a different solution, a WQESD controller with a 150Mb ESDI drive, that > allows me to boot non-zero partitions, since to the OS, the appear to be > zero partitions. Cheaper than SCSI, and no *&^% $%## RD53's! Yes!!! I AGREE!! RD53s drives don't live all that long. and SCSI is still very expensive since the Qbus host adapters have not become inexpensive, as has most other PDP-11 hardware. Why don't you just switch to an emulator on your PC? It is also much faster than the PDP-11!!!! UNLESS the real fun is running on real PDP-11 hardware and the software is not the issue. With me, the software is far more important than the hardware. I have seen an 11/73 systems with a Sigma RQD11-EC, a quad ESDI MSCP compatible Qbus controller which allows up to 4 ESDI drives of any size. The system I saw had 3 * 600 Mbyte Hitachi DK515-78 drives. I was told that the drives set as units 1 and 2 were only for backup and all 20 partitions on each drive were identical after the backups had been done. Of the 60 partitions in total, all could be active simultaneously and all were bootable. The Sigma controller does allow fixed hard drives to be split into segments or partitions of various sizes each with its own UNIT number which can then be booted from a hardware level. But I understand that the drives were not segmented in any way as the firmware on the Sigma controller was told that the drives were removable. In fact, a demonstration was made - VERY CAREFULLY - and one of the drives was powered off, uncabled, and a different physical drive substituted while everything else was still running. The new drive cam back on line and was available without a hitch. You can do the same thing with an RD53, but you MUST usually UNLOAD and LOAD the device driver the activate an RD5x drive after it is powered down. If the system device is also the same device driver, then a software BOOT is required. If you are running from a different device driver, then the UNLOAD and LOAD with re-initialize the RQDXn and bring the RD5x back on-line. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 2 11:22:36 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: KL power question In-Reply-To: <13424841935.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: > [*** Warning: AC power has failed ***] > > > [*** AC power has been restored ***] > > Hmm. Toad has an UPS. This provokes a question: Did KLs (Or any -10) > have UPSes? Did TOPS know how to talk to an UPS, or is this an XKL hack? > I bet it would be one hell of an UPS to run all that ECL... Yes one in the mill (actually a -20) had one. They used rotory converters with big flywheels for short ridethrough capability. The XKL likely has a lower power need so it has a more convention modern UPS. Allison From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 2 12:21:50 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <199902012349.PAA10156@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: "Hans Franke"'s message of Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:34:51 +1 Message-ID: <199902021723.SAA15137@horus.mch.sni.de> > > BTW: this E symbol is one of the 4 most stupid ideas around > > the euro - a typical pice of shit like most ideas developed > > by politicians. Don't get me wrong, the Euro is a good idea, > > but they tried to make it as stupid as possible. > The cynic in me wonders whether the funny-looking E isn't something > pushed either before or after the political accomplishment by computer > companies wanting to churn the installed base. I mean, Y2K has a > definite sell-by date. So does this but I think it's another couple > years out, right? No, the other way - some Eurobuerocrats thought it would be cool to have a symbol like $ or # (pound) and added the definition (more like a corporate ID thing) and the politicians didn't think (do they ever ?). Eventualy I think the buerocrats just did what they ever do - spend money for nothing and keep their chairs warm. Serious, AFAIK the E symbol was only ment to be an advertising signet, but they converted the 'niche to have' gag to a 'must have' official symbol. Anyway, typical 7th heaven living politicans - at a time where no european nation (maybe exept the Brits) any longer uses a national symbol (even the italian converted their pound like L to Lit.) they reinvent such a backward thing (Maybe they felt that they need it acording to USD and YEN). > ObCC: so what did you UKans do to get your funny-looking L on > computers, terminals, and printers imported from ASCII-speaking > countries? There is a standardized GB-ASCII where the pond symbol is on # (X'23') - and back in the 7 Bit area most printers (and terminals) offered dip switches to select the different national ASCII versions (I don't know how many there are, but most printers offered at least US, French, German, GB, Danish, Swedish, Italian and Spanish - some, especialy when manufactured in JP also Japaneese). Especialy the European variants are a good example how 7 versions can be made to get the maximum confusion - even where they inserted the same character, they used different characterpositions. For example: Italian è is on X'7D', while the French è is on X'7B (and the French use X'7D' for é) or the Swedish Ü is on X'5E' while the German is at X'5D' ... still not confused ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 2 12:21:51 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <002e01be4e4e$8e397b60$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <199902021723.SAA15134@horus.mch.sni.de> > >For ASCII text we tend to use 'L', 'UKP', 'GBP', or \pounds to mean a > >pound sign. Or do what at least one catalogue I have (a current > >catalogue, BTW), and give all prices in pence. This catalogue includes > >things like 3600p (meaning \pounds 36.00), I guess because they couldn't > >print a pound sign. > > Which brings up the question: What is the symbol or abbreviation for one > hundredth of a Euro? No symbol - just Cent or 'c'. (BTW: did I already tell ya that I dislike the names ?) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 2 12:21:50 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: TI99: WP and PC In-Reply-To: <01be4e42$193ba560$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> Message-ID: <199902021723.SAA15147@horus.mch.sni.de> > >P.S.: I've been told there was a Nixdorf computer where they > > build a (TTL) CPU based on the 9900 design. > I've got some bits of a Nixdorf something or other. Basically it's the > backplane, minus the rack and mountings, plus the power supply, some drives, > and cables and a couple of boxes full of modules. > Chip dates are around 74. Anyone know anything about Nixdorfs of this era? Can you support any part numbers or model numbers ? I have access to some Nixdorf information bases that may give a hint. Servus hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Feb 2 12:37:32 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990202111104.0092a900@47.161.112.121> Message-ID: <4.1.19990202124012.00967e70@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 11:11 AM 2/2/99 -0600, John Dykstra said something like: >>There is an 1130 site on the web at >> which has the functional >>characteristics manual. > >Thanks, Hans, for pointing this out. None of my web searches had found Yes John, this is one of the pet peeves some of us have who are hunting for obscure info like this. I'd found this mindspring site recently through one of the metasearch engines called "Dogpile" (Dogpile??? Why the heck that name?) set to 'IBM 1130'. Looking again today on Dogpile, several different Computerwoche pages from 1975-77 magazine issues and a Brazilian page come up which may have photos [but this .br site seems to be down :( ] Also, a page of 1130 comments is at . This fellow's page has some anecdotal memories, four photos and some op codes he recalled (wish the h*** I could remember stuff like that after even 25 _days_!): Seems these metasearch engines can dig a bit deeper and root out the Good Stuff (tm)! :-) :-) I have to stop this now as I'm wasting too much time. Takes too dang long checking all these hits using a 48k bps copper connection. >this site. > >Does anyone know of any other IBM 1130's in North America? I'd go a fair >distance to see one again. I wonder if any of the webpage owners found in this search may know of something 1130 laying about at a college or company? Regards, Chris Can't get over that Dogpile name :) -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From bwish at pcfa.org Tue Feb 2 12:37:23 1999 From: bwish at pcfa.org (Brett Wish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: CD-RW Drive In-Reply-To: <000d01be4e1d$85c8cca0$72eecdcf@server> Message-ID: > ->One detail that you might need to check: does the CD-RW share the IDE > >channel with the CD-ROM? A lot of recorders will spit out bad CD's > >because of this. I've had two drives that either wouldn't record at the > >right speed or would bomb when writing the table of contents to the disc. > > > >Brett > > > I think you may have something here Brett, Yes they do share the same IDE > cable, one is Master , one is slave.. > Problem is I also have a master & slave ide hard drive on the other cable.. > I will try changing the cableing, did not know this was a problem, the book > does not tell of this potential problem of sharing two cdrom drives on the > same ide cable.. > Phil... Hopefully that'll fix your problem, but it's also possible that it'll do the same thing with the other hard drive if you swap channels around. It's worth a shot, though. From erd at infinet.com Tue Feb 2 13:11:19 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: 8-bit IDE (was Re: new toy!) In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Feb 1, 99 09:59:52 pm Message-ID: <199902021911.OAA09456@user2.infinet.com> > > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > The 8bit IDE looks like the 1002WA ISA 8bit controller. The 1002HDO host > > interface however does not. In the 8bit worlds there seems to be three > > different schemes. > > Gee, you are discouraging me, Allison! Out here, ST-351A/Xs have been > common as armpits. Everyone seems to have a couple! Seemed like a > neat/cheap idea. Guess not, though, as you point out below. Commodore used the 8-bit IDE stuff in their Colts (XT clones) and the A590/A291 SCSI interfaces for A500 and Zorro-II (no doubt because of Jack Tameil's infamous penchant for forcing engineers to design in whatever surplus hardware was lying around the warehouse). I've only ever seen 20Mb Western Digital XT-IDE drives in them. As an aside, I burn my ROMs from a Colt with one of those drives in it, but the drive came from an old HardCard. Is there any specific information out there about W.D.'s implementation of XT-IDE? -ethan From ss at allegro.com Tue Feb 2 13:34:57 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990202124012.00967e70@206.231.8.2> References: <3.0.5.32.19990202111104.0092a900@47.161.112.121> Message-ID: <199902021935.LAA24625@bart.allegro.com> Another thing to look for when searching for IBM 1130 information is the Meta 4.  The Meta 4 (from Digital Scientific) was a clone of the IBM 1130, made in San Diego (ok, maybe Del Mar or Sorrento Valley area) around 1970. IIRC it was called an 1130 clone, but actually had the extra instruction(s) that would really make it an 1800 clone. There's an article on it at: http://www.cowo.de/archiv/1976/15/7615c064.html It was this machine, at UCSD, that I wrote SPACEWAR on in 1970, inspired by the article in Analog SF magazine. We had an Evans & Sutherland vector graphic display, and some kind of home brew sound (using Wavetek wave generators?). I still have a listing of the FORTRAN source for this SPACEWAR somewhere. I used the console switches as the controls, and had the usual gravity, hyperwarp (unreliable, of course...using it too often would get you killed). Someone added random twinkling stars at one point. We also had a computer-assisted targeting option for the second spaceship, which slowed things down but aided new players. I remember that the Meta 4 had firmware that was implemented on boards about 1 foot by 1 foot, with little copper squares of foil about the 1/4" by 1/4" ...indicating 1/0 by presence/absence. One problem was that the squares would sometimes lift up a bit, so we'd take out the boards and press them down again. I remember we also had APL, on a removable disk cartridge. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com From william at ans.net Tue Feb 2 13:47:53 1999 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Honeywell DPS 6 Hard drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Administrator accounts were cool as we could change > our password to what WE wanted, not some random string (yeh, yeh, security > and all that). One interesting option the DPS-6 machines had was a security module. When added, the thing became a SCOMP (Secure Communications Processor) and with it, A-1 security (something Unix can not even begin to think about claiming. VMS, too.). > Unfortunatly the odds are that all this hardware has been melted > down for razor blades by now. Remember that these are the same people that still find World War 1 equipment (and even stuff from the Civil War) in dusty crates in the back of some depots from time to time. William Donzelli william@ans.net From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 2 13:48:03 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed References: <4.1.19990202124012.00967e70@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <36B75673.70834DAB@rain.org> Christian Fandt wrote: > > I wonder if any of the webpage owners found in this search may know of > something 1130 laying about at a college or company? When you say "something" 1130 lying around, are you talking hardware, software, docs, or ????. I have quite a number of 1130 software manuals, and quite possibly some punched card decks burried around here that I acquired from the estate of someone who used to work and program at IBM. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 2 14:15:33 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: KL power question In-Reply-To: <13424841935.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <13424841935.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <19990202201533.27307.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Hmm. Toad has an UPS. This provokes a question: Did KLs (Or any -10) > have UPSes? Not as a part of the KL. Some installations used a motor-generator (with a *MASSIVE* flywheel). The KL had power-fail restart as a standard feature. The big capacitors in the power supply would power it for about 200 ms (if memory serves). The power-fail interrupt would tell the OS to write the CPU status to core, so that when power was restored it could be restarted from where it left off. Later KL systems had semiconductor memory instead of core, so they had battery backup for the RAM. But the principle remains the same. > Did TOPS know how to talk to an UPS, or is this an XKL hack? It's almost certainly an XKL hack. > I bet it would be one hell of an UPS to run all that ECL... You didn't want to be anywhere nearby if the flywheel became unbalanced. From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Feb 2 14:21:52 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed In-Reply-To: <199902021935.LAA24625@bart.allegro.com> References: <4.1.19990202124012.00967e70@206.231.8.2> <3.0.5.32.19990202111104.0092a900@47.161.112.121> Message-ID: <4.1.19990202144506.0096f4a0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 11:34 AM 2/2/99 -0800, ss@allegro.com said something like: >Another thing to look for when searching for IBM 1130 information >is the Meta 4. Yes, little bits and pieces of info can be found referring to the 1130 and 1800 when checking the Meta 4 search hits. Anything to add to the 1130 information already pieced together. For example (and you non-German readers out there please forgive me) here's a page telling of the coming advancement of Meta 4 machines into Germany and France after the first European installation in London: http://www.computerwoche.de/archiv/1976/20/7620c018.html. The 400 1130 and 1800 systems will be replaced by them. That Computerwoche archive is a great resource for news tidbits on older gear. Wish more American trade journals would do this (HP Journal does this already, I think.) > >The Meta 4 (from Digital Scientific) was a clone of the >IBM 1130, made in San Diego (ok, maybe Del Mar or Sorrento In fact, the Computerwoche article above maintains it is San Diego. I've seen San Diego in other Meta 4 references I've found like the one Stan offers below. >Valley area) around 1970. IIRC it was called an 1130 clone, but >actually had the extra instruction(s) that would really make it an 1800 >clone. > >There's an article on it at: > http://www.cowo.de/archiv/1976/15/7615c064.html > >It was this machine, at UCSD, that I wrote SPACEWAR on in >1970, inspired by the article in Analog SF magazine. We had an >Evans & Sutherland vector graphic display, and some kind of home >brew sound (using Wavetek wave generators?). I still have a listing >of the FORTRAN source for this SPACEWAR somewhere. >I used the console switches as the controls, and had the usual >gravity, hyperwarp (unreliable, of course...using it too often would >get you killed). Someone added random twinkling stars at one point. >We also had a computer-assisted targeting option for the second >spaceship, which slowed things down but aided new players. > >I remember that the Meta 4 had firmware that was implemented on >boards about 1 foot by 1 foot, with little copper squares of foil about >the 1/4" by 1/4" ...indicating 1/0 by presence/absence. One problem >was that the squares would sometimes lift up a bit, so we'd take out >the boards and press them down again. > >I remember we also had APL, on a removable disk cartridge. In the pages I've seen so far, the 1130 is said to have a max of 16KWord of memory but my professors at school were bragging about our machine having 32K of memory (in 1972). Was there in fact an upgrade to 32K _words_ or were they simply getting 32K bytes and 16K words confoozed? Remember, this was all quite new to these older age professors then when few backwater-area colleges our size even had a computer. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 17:01:39 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: Indiana Jones and the... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202170139.30774ee4@intellistar.net> At 11:31 PM 2/1/99 -0800, Sam wrote: >On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > > >You dumb-ass! Geez, Sam, it's too early for April fool's day! Joe From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue Feb 2 15:47:19 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:53 2005 Subject: PDP paper tape - PC04/PC05 (offer to trade)! Message-ID: <004801be4ef5$9b9a7e60$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Don't know if anyone can help on this, but wanted to post this query to the kind folks here... I have a PDP-8E system, but it appears that the previous owner got many of the parts from different sources. The system has a paper tape reader/punch, but it's for a PDP-11 (PC05) not for a PDP-8 (PC04). I have some information that shows how to convert a PC05 into a PC04 so I can use it with the 8E, but I would prefer to not have to do the conversion unless absolutely necessary (I don't like to mess with historical accuracy if at all possible). So - does anyone have a working PC04 paper tape reader/punch that they would want to trade for a working PC05 paper tape reader/punch? Thanks mucho! Jay West From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 18:09:14 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202180914.43dff90e@intellistar.net> A few weeks ago we were talking about the Sanyo 550 series and someone mentioned one of the alternates operating systems that supported 80 track drives in the 550. I said that was DS-DOS by Michtron. Today I found an old Sanyo disk package with four disks for the 550. One of them is DS DOS 2.11, one is InfoStar, one is MailMerge/SpellStar and the other is a disk of misc utilities. The first three are original disks. In additon, the InfoStar, MailMerge/SpellStar are Sanyo labeled disks that came with the 550. If anyone wants them, trade me something I can use and they're all your's. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 2 12:42:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <19990202020053.22518.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 2, 99 02:00:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/2b0f12a4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 2 12:44:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <19990202020630.22553.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 2, 99 02:06:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 757 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/333c7d91/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 2 12:48:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <199902020313.TAA28904@saul9.u.washington.edu> from "Derek Peschel" at Feb 1, 99 07:13:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 924 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/c3a82f2c/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 18:27:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Wait! There's more including MS-DOS 1.25!!!! was Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202182730.43dfa97a@intellistar.net> I'm still digging. I found more 550 stuff. I think this is everything that came with the 550. Here's a chance for you 550 owner's to get the whole set at one shot! Original DS-DOS box and invoice. Original Sanyo Easywriter ver 1.3 disk Original Sanyo disk box with 550 dos ver 2.11 and BASIC 1.25, two original Sanyo disk for InfoStar (set B disk 2 and 3 of 4; disks 1 and 4 are below), original Sanyo disk for DOS 1.25 and BASIC ver 1.1 Original Sanyo disk box with all three original disk of set A, WordStar and CalcStar and a backup copy of DS-DOS. Two card board dummy disks used to protect the floppy drives duing shipment. Joe > >A few weeks ago we were talking about the Sanyo 550 series and someone mentioned one of the alternates operating systems that supported 80 track drives in the 550. I said that was DS-DOS by Michtron. > > Today I found an old Sanyo disk package with four disks for the 550. One of them is DS DOS 2.11, one is InfoStar, one is MailMerge/SpellStar and the other is a disk of misc utilities. The first three are original disks. In additon, the InfoStar, MailMerge/SpellStar are Sanyo labeled disks that came with the 550. If anyone wants them, trade me something I can use and they're all your's. > > Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 18:37:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Gorilla manual Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202183715.306fe446@intellistar.net> A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about a Gorilla Banana printer. Today I found the onwer's manual for my old Gorilla monochrome monitor. Does anyone need it? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 18:42:39 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202184239.2eef3282@intellistar.net> A friend of mine found this at a garage sale. Small grey box with a long cord and DB-9 connector. The front of the box says "Air Media Live" and has a LED on it. Does anyone know what it is? Joe From drbilling at ucdavis.edu Tue Feb 2 16:43:47 1999 From: drbilling at ucdavis.edu (Dean Billing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed Message-ID: <199902022243.OAA09374@pop2.ucdavis.edu> >> ... >> >>The Meta 4 (from Digital Scientific) was a clone of the >>IBM 1130, made in San Diego (ok, maybe Del Mar or Sorrento > >In fact, the Computerwoche article above maintains it is San Diego. I've >seen San Diego in other Meta 4 references I've found like the one Stan >offers below. The headquarters and factory were in the Sorrento Valley, although their mailing address may have been San Diego. I visited their offices once. I supported a DSC Meta-4 for several years, about 1973 to 1976. It replaced an IBM 1130 which it emulated exactly, but was 10 times faster when running IBM 1130 FORTRAN IV programs. It was an elegantly simple machine. The micro controller was truly a RISC machine, I think it had a 3 bit op code, 8 instructions. >>Valley area) around 1970. IIRC it was called an 1130 clone, but >>actually had the extra instruction(s) that would really make it an 1800 >>clone. Yes it had the set/clear memory protection bits. The memory arrays in IBM 1130/1800's were 18 bits ... 16 data bits and 2 parity bits for an 1130 and 16 bits, one parity bit and one memory protect bit for the 1800. >> >>I remember that the Meta 4 had firmware that was implemented on >>boards about 1 foot by 1 foot, with little copper squares of foil about >>the 1/4" by 1/4" ...indicating 1/0 by presence/absence. One problem >>was that the squares would sometimes lift up a bit, so we'd take out >>the boards and press them down again. Yes it was a type of capacitor Read Only Storage with a read cycle of 90 ns. >>I remember we also had APL, on a removable disk cartridge. > >In the pages I've seen so far, the 1130 is said to have a max of 16KWord of >memory but my professors at school were bragging about our machine having >32K of memory (in 1972). Was there in fact an upgrade to 32K _words_ or >were they simply getting 32K bytes and 16K words confoozed? Remember, this >was all quite new to these older age professors then when few >backwater-area colleges our size even had a computer. The 1130/1800 addressed 32K words, but the DSC Meta-4 had a feature so that you could load 64K or RAM, then context switch between two 32K banks. In this manner they developed a multi user 1130 timesharing system. The timesharing control system was in the upper 32K and it swapped out 1130 users. If you had a fixed head disk attached, a feature available only on the DSC Meta-4, not the 1130, you could swap out the whole 32K in some ridiculously short time, like 50 ms., then swap in another 32K user in 50 ms. and pick up where they left off. It really worked, we attached 8 dumb terminals to it and had 8 simultaneous 1130's running for less than the price of a single IBM 1130, and since it was 10 times faster than an 1130, each user could be running at about the same speed as an 1130, if they were compute bound ... not usually because most of the users were pounding the keyboard editing FORTRAN code and compiling. It worked well until we replaced it with a DEC SYSTEM-20 which was 10 to 100 times faster still ... at about the same price. I still have the manuals for the Meta-4, even though I was dumb enough to get rid of all of my 1130 manuals. As an aside, DSC developed the line of National Semiconductor IBM Mainframe clones that are now one of the Japanese lines ... and disappeared. -- Dean =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dean Billing Phone: 530-752-5956 UC Davis FAX: 530-752-6363 IT-CR EMAIL: drbilling@ucdavis.edu One Shields Way Davis, CA 95616 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 2 17:02:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: KL power question In-Reply-To: <19990202201533.27307.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 2, 99 08:15:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 690 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/97f58189/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 2 17:07:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: PDP paper tape - PC04/PC05 (offer to trade)! In-Reply-To: <004801be4ef5$9b9a7e60$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 2, 99 03:47:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/cbd519f2/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 2 17:32:35 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: KL power question In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990202233235.28569.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > The KL had power-fail restart as a standard feature. The big capacitors Tony replied: > Wasn't this fairly standard on most minicomputers? Some PDP11s have a No, it was optional on most DEC minicomputers. To the best of my knowledge, the KL10 was the first machine from DEC for which this feature was standard rather than optional. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 2 17:32:35 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Gorilla manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990202183715.306fe446@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about a Gorilla Banana printer. > Today I found the onwer's manual for my old Gorilla monochrome monitor. > Does anyone need it? Speaking of such, I picked up one of said printer yesterday at a thrift shop (charity shop for the UK impaired) for $10. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Feb 2 17:46:35 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990202184635.0079cd40@mail.wincom.net> I realize this is way OT, but hope someone can give me some advice. I am trying to install an ATX MB in an ATX case. All jumpers have been set by the book. There is a switch on the power supply, and another on the front of the case. This latter is a momentary contact type. With the MB outside the case on a wooden surface and nothing connected except the power supply plug and the front push button, all that I get is a twitch from the cpu cooling fan, on only the first push, after that nothing until it sets for a while. Since this is the first time I have tangled with an ATX I have no spare parts to substitute, so any help on how this power supply is supposed to operate would be much appreciated. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From bmahoney at sprint.ca Tue Feb 2 19:57:38 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help References: <3.0.5.32.19990202184635.0079cd40@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <36B7AD12.CC622469@sprint.ca> > This may not help Charlie but some boards have a sleep mode, rapid push off to set > it and a hard push again to bring it to life. Brian Mahoney(former lurker) From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Tue Feb 2 17:56:12 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Gorilla manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201be4f07$9c66f0f0$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> I posted the message about the printer. I found one thanks to someone else's posting. It does not have a manual, so if you care to part with it, please let me know. Thanks. Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sam Ismail > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 6:33 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Gorilla manual > > > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about a Gorilla Banana printer. > > Today I found the onwer's manual for my old Gorilla monochrome monitor. > > Does anyone need it? > > Speaking of such, I picked up one of said printer yesterday at a thrift > shop (charity shop for the UK impaired) for $10. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 2 18:12:48 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990202184239.2eef3282@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000201be4f09$ee844b60$a9b0adce@5x86jk> It a news service that you sign up for and pay a monthly fee to use. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:43 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna > > > A friend of mine found this at a garage sale. Small grey box with a long > cord and DB-9 connector. The front of the box says "Air Media > Live" and has > a LED on it. Does anyone know what it is? > > Joe > > From msg at computerpro.com Tue Feb 2 18:30:03 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed References: <199902022243.OAA09374@pop2.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <36B7988B.83F6A8B@computerpro.com> Dean Billing wrote: > As an aside, DSC developed the line of National Semiconductor IBM Mainframe > clones that are now one of the Japanese lines ... and disappeared. > I too visited their plant once to pick up 100 pounds of logic diagrams they donated for the National Advanced Systems clones (ca. 1981); I wish I had known about the Meta-4 at that time so that I could have pestered for the prints for it too... Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From msg at computerpro.com Tue Feb 2 18:33:59 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available References: <3.0.1.16.19990202180914.43dff90e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36B79977.EF3C556E@computerpro.com> Please consider making disk images (teledisk, nwdos diskimage, etc.) of these before parting with them; there are many many folks who can't find the o/s and they would surely like copies (including us) Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum Joe wrote: > > A few weeks ago we were talking about the Sanyo 550 series and someone > mentioned one of the alternates operating systems that supported 80 track > drives in the 550. I said that was DS-DOS by Michtron. > > Today I found an old Sanyo disk package with four disks for the 550. One > of them is DS DOS 2.11, one is InfoStar, one is MailMerge/SpellStar and the > other is a disk of misc utilities. The first three are original disks. In > additon, the InfoStar, MailMerge/SpellStar are Sanyo labeled disks that > came with the 550. If anyone wants them, trade me something I can use and > they're all your's. > > Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 2 18:41:55 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: new toy! Message-ID: <199902030041.AA27187@world.std.com> References: <13424841935.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990203114952.00a99390@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 12:22 PM 02-02-99 -0500, allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > >> [*** Warning: AC power has failed ***] >> >> >> [*** AC power has been restored ***] >> >> Hmm. Toad has an UPS. This provokes a question: Did KLs (Or any -10) >> have UPSes? Did TOPS know how to talk to an UPS, or is this an XKL hack? >> I bet it would be one hell of an UPS to run all that ECL... > >Yes one in the mill (actually a -20) had one. They used rotory converters >with big flywheels for short ridethrough capability. Ah, the old motor/generator that brings back memories... >The XKL likely has a lower power need so it has a more convention modern >UPS. I wouldn't want to think about the number of batteries required to keep a KI-10 running (you'd need a fair few just to keep the lights running :-) and then there's the disks too. My computer room was specially built to house a DECsystem-10. It's long gone, but the room is full of modern systems (about 60 of them) and we draw less power (and generate far less heat) than the old -10 ever did... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Feb 2 18:36:44 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) Message-ID: <19990202.190321.202.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:44:35 +0000 (GMT) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: >> >> Tony Duell wrote: >> > A photomultiplier isn't that bad to use. OK, it needs a kilovolt >or so of >> > EHT. But apart from that it's a fairly easy device to connect up >and get >> > a useable signal from. There should be a lot of them still about, >and >> > small ones aren't that expensive second-hand. >> >> The tricky part is how to mate this with the mechanical assembly. >Even >> the laserdisc players that used a HeNe laser still used a >semiconductor >> photodetector that was directly mounted on the sled. > >I assume the HeNe tube didn't move with the sled, right (far to much >mass, the servo would never lock). Couldn't you do something similar >with >the photomultiplier - mount it on the chassis and somehow direct the >light beam onto it? Actually, I saw a prototype laserdisk player in a museum somewhere (I think it was in the LA Museum of Science , but it was a long time ago) that had the following arrangement: The HeNe laser tube was bolted down, along with some optics, and a spinning platter/servo motor mounted on a carriage. The *PLATTER* moved during seeks! It was really quite bizarre to watch. They used a *BIG* servo motor to move the carriage, if memory serves. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 2 19:19:08 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: 8-bit IDE (was Re: new toy!) In-Reply-To: <199902030042.AA27594@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > It is documented some in the QUE book Upgrading and repairing PCs 3rd > edition I have. > > Allison Is it a standard and the same as Seagate and Miniscribe? - don From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Feb 2 19:45:00 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990202184635.0079cd40@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <199902030142.TAA00622@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:46:35 -0500 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Charles E. Fox" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Need some O.T. help > > I realize this is way OT, but hope someone can give me some advice. > I just built an ATX machine, so I'll try. > I am trying to install an ATX MB in an ATX case. All jumpers have been set > by the book. There is a switch on the power supply, and another on the > front of the case. This latter is a momentary contact type. > With the MB outside the case on a wooden surface and nothing connected > except the power supply plug and the front push button, all that I get is a > twitch from the cpu cooling fan, on only the first push, after that nothing > until it sets for a while. Make sure that the power on/off switch physically on the power supply is on. (Sounds simple, but possible.) If you have the ps connector plugged into the board, have a cpu, ram, and some sort of video card plugged in, and have the "remote ps" or something like that cable from the case plugged in, when you push the front panel switch the beastie oughta start up. The sleep switch is usually a separate switch, so if your case doesn't have one, don't worry. You just won't be able to use sleep mode. AFAICT, the board always has some power on it, and the front power switch just sends a signal to the ps to feed the main power in. Just make sure all your jumpers are right and that you have the proper little cable plugged into the "rem pwr" (or something) header. > Since this is the first time I have tangled with an ATX I have no spare > parts to substitute, so any help on how this power supply is supposed to > operate would be much appreciated. > > Regards > Charlie Fox Hope that helps. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 2 19:43:49 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: new toy! In-Reply-To: <199902030041.AA27187@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > Arond here they are scarce, I have one but it's model that has been reputed > to be unreliable at best. Not in my experience. > 8bit IDE is an easy interface though. But the interface is less than half > the work no matter what. > > > Turborom doesn't know about IDE or hard disk. But it does know enough to access the HD and read the boot loader and act on it. And it then kicks off the Turbo-BIOS and ZCPRnn and whatever BDOS you are using, and the Turbo-BIOS does know about hard disks. It just seems to me that if you could make the 8-bit IDE interface look like the WD1002-HDO interface - same commands and responses - to the BIOS that everything should fall into place and the o/s wouldn't know or care whether it was IDE or ST506. Obviously, I am missing something! > Or you can use P2dos/novados/suprbdos replacements and run a half gig. Or TurboDOS. > I've been the route. I have three s100 crates with hard disk, an Ampro, > SB180 and two other in the works so I've been there. FYI my kaypro does > have a 2mb ramdisk... much faster than hard drive. Just a same that the Now that sucker must really sing!!! > kaypro is so slow compared to my other 4mhz systems. > > Allison > - don From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Feb 2 19:52:26 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: TI99: WP and PC Message-ID: <006001be4f17$d9eecaa0$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999 4:54 Subject: Re: TI99: WP and PC >> I've got some bits of a Nixdorf something or other. Basically it's the >> backplane, minus the rack and mountings, plus the power supply, some drives, >> and cables and a couple of boxes full of modules. >> Chip dates are around 74. Anyone know anything about Nixdorfs of this era? > >Can you support any part numbers or model numbers ? >I have access to some Nixdorf information bases that >may give a hint. I think the modules have id numbers on them. Will compile and post to the list. Thanks! Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax) From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 2 19:53:39 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: new toy! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902030153.RAA23658@civic.hal.com> Don Maslin wrote: > It just > seems to me that if you could make the 8-bit IDE interface look like the > WD1002-HDO interface - same commands and responses - to the BIOS that > everything should fall into place and the o/s wouldn't know or care > whether it was IDE or ST506. Obviously, I am missing something! IDE interface is just data buffers, no smarts. That is all on the drive. For ST506 the smarts are in the interface and none on the drive. Since the registers are different for both, unless you put a PIC or something between the two, you won't be ab;e to treat them the same. Dwight From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue Feb 2 20:13:18 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... Message-ID: <199902030213.VAA00836@dgs.cs.unc.edu> On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, kstumpf@unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) wrote: ] ... To make matters even worse, the ] Classiccmp archive maintained by Kevan Heydon (many thanks man), also ] suffered from a technical glitch and needed to be restored. ... With a little digging, I recently discovered that the classiccmp archive is also available at washington.edu, where the list processor itself keeps a copy. Here is the URL: gopher://lists.u.washington.edu:70/11/public/classiccmp It isn't as pretty or nicely indexed as Kevan's, but it *should* have exactly the same articles that went through the list processor. Another URL: http://www.washington.edu/computing/listproc/ has instructions for using the list processor, all nicely HTML'd. Cheers, Bill. PS. My thanks to Kevan too! From ai705 at osfn.org Tue Feb 2 20:31:23 1999 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: <199902030213.VAA00836@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, kstumpf@unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) wrote: > ] ... To make matters even worse, the > ] Classiccmp archive maintained by Kevan Heydon (many thanks man), also > ] suffered from a technical glitch and needed to be restored. ... Has this been discussed before? Can Kevan, or anyone help him, get a search engine on that stuff. It's a bear finding anything in that archive. Or am I lame and just missed seeing a serch mechanism? -- Steve From jrice at texoma.net Tue Feb 2 21:16:03 1999 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help References: <199902030142.TAA00622@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <36B7BF73.7571DBC7@texoma.net> The two times I've had that symptom on a customers machine, once was a bad processor, once was a bad motherboard. Paul Braun wrote: > > Date sent: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:46:35 -0500 > Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Charles E. Fox" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Need some O.T. help > > > > > I realize this is way OT, but hope someone can give me some advice. > > > I just built an ATX machine, so I'll try. > > > I am trying to install an ATX MB in an ATX case. All jumpers have been set > > by the book. There is a switch on the power supply, and another on the > > front of the case. This latter is a momentary contact type. > > With the MB outside the case on a wooden surface and nothing connected > > except the power supply plug and the front push button, all that I get is a > > twitch from the cpu cooling fan, on only the first push, after that nothing > > until it sets for a while. > > Make sure that the power on/off switch physically on the power supply is on. > (Sounds simple, but possible.) If you have the ps connector plugged into the > board, have a cpu, ram, and some sort of video card plugged in, and have the > "remote ps" or something like that cable from the case plugged in, when you > push the front panel switch the beastie oughta start up. The sleep switch is > usually a separate switch, so if your case doesn't have one, don't worry. You > just won't be able to use sleep mode. AFAICT, the board always has some > power on it, and the front power switch just sends a signal to the ps to feed the > main power in. Just make sure all your jumpers are right and that you have the > proper little cable plugged into the "rem pwr" (or something) header. > > Since this is the first time I have tangled with an ATX I have no spare > > parts to substitute, so any help on how this power supply is supposed to > > operate would be much appreciated. > > > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > > Hope that helps. > > Paul Braun > NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. > nerdware@laidbak.com > www.laidbak.com/nerdware -- ICQ 2286850 Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html Robotics Page at ttp://home.texoma.net/~jrice/hobbies.html All pages under construction! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 23:50:35 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Gorilla manual In-Reply-To: <001201be4f07$9c66f0f0$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.co m> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202235035.30775080@intellistar.net> Umm. You'd better re-read the message Todd. It for a Gorilla MONITOR manual. Joe At 06:56 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >I posted the message about the printer. I found one thanks to someone else's >posting. It does not have a manual, so if you care to part with it, please >let me know. Thanks. > >Todd Osborne >Senior Software Engineer >FMStrategies, Inc. >http://www.fmstrategies.com/ >-------------------------------------------------------- >FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com >Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com >-------------------------------------------------------- >Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) >http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ >-------------------------------------------------------- >Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) >Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. >COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) >-------------------------------------------------------- >Quote: >"The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu >> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sam Ismail >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 6:33 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: Re: Gorilla manual >> >> >> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: >> >> > A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about a Gorilla Banana printer. >> > Today I found the onwer's manual for my old Gorilla monochrome monitor. >> > Does anyone need it? >> >> Speaking of such, I picked up one of said printer yesterday at a thrift >> shop (charity shop for the UK impaired) for $10. >> >> Sellam Alternate e-mail: >> dastar@siconic.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------ >> Always hasslin' the man. >> >> Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 >> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! >> [Last web site update: 01/15/99] >> >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 23:51:58 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna In-Reply-To: <000201be4f09$ee844b60$a9b0adce@5x86jk> References: <3.0.1.16.19990202184239.2eef3282@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202235158.307728bc@intellistar.net> At 06:12 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >It a news service that you sign up for and pay a monthly fee to use. John Is this the only piece that you need? Do you know what the name of the service is so I can find out more about it? Joe > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu >> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Joe >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:43 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna >> >> >> A friend of mine found this at a garage sale. Small grey box with a long >> cord and DB-9 connector. The front of the box says "Air Media >> Live" and has >> a LED on it. Does anyone know what it is? >> >> Joe >> >> > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 2 23:55:08 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available In-Reply-To: <36B79977.EF3C556E@computerpro.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990202180914.43dff90e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990202235508.30773958@intellistar.net> At 06:33 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >Please consider making disk images (teledisk, nwdos diskimage, etc.) of >these before parting with them; there are many many folks who can't find >the o/s and they would surely like copies (including us) > >Michael Grigoni >Cybertheque Museum I will if the PC will read these disks. The originals shouldn't be a problem but some of the copies may be in Michtron's bastardized 80 track 10 sector format. Is there any place that's keeping an archive of MS-DOS stuff like Don does for the CPM stuff? Joe From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Feb 3 00:46:25 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: IBM 9075 - the PC-RADIO (OT?) Message-ID: <01be4f40$eaf55340$7d8ea6d1@the-general> This may be OT, but the computer is a bit unique in its own way (in the fact that there's only two that I've ever heard of/know exist - the one that I have and the one that the person I got it off of still has) It's an IBM 9075 Laptop PC radio. One of the neat things about it is its display. Looking at it, it's reflective (silver), but when it's turned on, it's backlit, and after it boots, the backlight can be turned off under bright light. Anyone have any info on this thing? I just picked on up, and got it to "boot" by connecting a Mac power supply to the battery terminals (7.5v). It came up with the backlight, then did the 640k memory test gave a CMOS battery date error, then booted to drive D, which is a ROM drive. I took it apart, and it has no HD or floppy, an 80186 processor, a modem, and a "Motorola Cellular Packet Radio". First thing: where could I find a power supply for it? The connector is an odd round 4-pin plug. Next: Where can I find IC cards? It has what looks like a PCMCIA slot, but a PC card won't fit, and it is apparently for IC RAM (ROM?) cards. Last: How does the Packet Radio thing work? Where could I find drivers, or an antenna or something for it? Or should I contact Motorola? The computer was apparently used by a Sears Service tech, but that's all I can figure out so far. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990202/6e0baf6c/attachment.html From jpero at cgocable.net Tue Feb 2 22:25:28 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990202184635.0079cd40@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <199902030423.XAA21479@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:46:35 -0500 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Charles E. Fox" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Need some O.T. help > > I realize this is way OT, but hope someone can give me some advice. Snip! > until it sets for a while. > Since this is the first time I have tangled with an ATX I have no spare > parts to substitute, so any help on how this power supply is supposed to > operate would be much appreciated. > > Regards > Charlie Fox > Hi Fox! I'm in Kingston, Ontario! Anyway about the ATX fubar. Minimum items to make things spin: CPU w/ fan installed, please double check it's all the way in by very firm with some rocking to seat CPU in. DIMMs installed correctly and all the way in. Clock rate set right, multipler is out of picture of your worries because intel is currently procducing multipler locked for PII and both Celerons. And normally open soft-switch power plugged in right pins on motherboard, ATX is plugged and switched on if it has cutoff switch on it. All it needs is a push on the soft-switch to become alive. Push it again or push in and hold to get it turned off if it has this feature. AGP video cards and CPU have to be all the way in properly because of double layer of contacts rather like EISA of its heyday. I'm using Asus P2B, PII 350, 64MB, G200 8MB SGRAM AGP OEM ver. Very stable as rock and powerful. What's yours stuff consists of? Jason D. From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Tue Feb 2 22:21:32 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Gorilla manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990202235035.30775080@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001501be4f2c$adfdf690$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> Damn, anyone got an upgrade to Human Eyes 1.01 :) Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 6:51 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Gorilla manual > > > Umm. You'd better re-read the message Todd. It for a Gorilla > MONITOR manual. > > Joe > > > At 06:56 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I posted the message about the printer. I found one thanks to > someone else's > >posting. It does not have a manual, so if you care to part with > it, please > >let me know. Thanks. > > > >Todd Osborne > >Senior Software Engineer > >FMStrategies, Inc. > >http://www.fmstrategies.com/ > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com > >Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) > >http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) > >Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. > >COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >Quote: > >"The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the > plunge then > >you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > >> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sam Ismail > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 6:33 PM > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Re: Gorilla manual > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > >> > >> > A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about a Gorilla > Banana printer. > >> > Today I found the onwer's manual for my old Gorilla > monochrome monitor. > >> > Does anyone need it? > >> > >> Speaking of such, I picked up one of said printer yesterday at a thrift > >> shop (charity shop for the UK impaired) for $10. > >> > >> Sellam Alternate e-mail: > >> dastar@siconic.com > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> ------------ > >> Always hasslin' the man. > >> > >> Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > >> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > >> [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > >> > >> > > > > > > From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue Feb 2 22:48:37 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: PDP paper tape - PC04/PC05 (offer to trade)! Message-ID: <015b01be4f30$77778a60$0101a8c0@jay> You wrote... >Just checking that my 8/e and PC0'4' (converted from a PC05) are still >here.. Yes, they are ;-) Yeah, there's been a rash of disappearences, some have reported suspicious 18-wheeler trucks parked in peoples back yards with 12 people moving computer gear ;) >That's probably my info - I converted a PC05 into a PC04 because I >couldn't get the real thing either. Why yes, now that I look it is. Kudo's to you BTW - it's a very nice clean mod. I will do it if I have to, but wanted to check around for the "real thing". There's just something heartsinking about taking a dremmel tool to the front of my PC05 :) One question though - why is the switch needed anyway (I never used the real thing before)? It would seem to me that the PC05 arrangement where power is turned on when data is sent works fine - why put a switch on it? If the switch isn't needed for easy access, it could always be put on the rear or out of site. >You do need to get the DEC Omnibus -> PC04 interface (M840???). That's >the only hard thing to find. The other flip-chip card is quite common. Yup - the previous owner didn't have that either. I'm still hunting for the module, but quite determined. >I suppose the other thing to find would be a 'junker' PC04 and use the >backplane and switch PCB + bezel (and rear label if you really want to be >correct) to convert yours without any real changes. The punch and reader >mechanisms, many of the cards, PSU, etc are the same. True. I'll keep looking for a bit still... THANKS! PS - I hope you didn't mind but someone on the list asked me for a copy of the PC05/4 mod, so I passed on your email address. I apologize in advance if youd've preferred me not to. Regards, Jay West From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue Feb 2 23:00:14 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: PDP paper tape - PC04/PC05 (offer to trade)! Message-ID: <01af01be4f32$171ba780$0101a8c0@jay> Sorry bout that last post, hit the wrong button ;) J From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 2 23:25:12 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: KL power question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > You didn't want to be anywhere nearby if the flywheel became unbalanced. > > Indeed not. Preferably not in the same building... But you want to have _been_ in the building at some point to know the axis of rotation and by simple geometry the plane of rotation and shrapnel. And make sure you weren't near that plane in a nearby building. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 2 23:55:26 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Stephen Dauphin wrote: > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > > > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, kstumpf@unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) wrote: > > ] ... To make matters even worse, the > > ] Classiccmp archive maintained by Kevan Heydon (many thanks man), also > > ] suffered from a technical glitch and needed to be restored. ... > > Has this been discussed before? Can Kevan, or anyone help him, get a > search engine on that stuff. It's a bear finding anything in that > archive. > > Or am I lame and just missed seeing a serch mechanism? Well, I've picked up messages from the list through Yahoo and Altavista. Including some of my own. I'm of seriously mixed emotions concerning web-accessible mailing list archives (Usenet archives are different -- you _know_ that everything you type is being archived by somebody), as I've traditionally considered mailing lists "semi-private". Since I belong to a few where I damned well know there are lurkers with intentions far from honorable due to their status as government goons. (Although it can be a dangerous job -- some govgoons have been corrupted by libertarian thinking and thereby ruined for their former profession). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 2 23:52:39 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: > Well, I've picked up messages from the list through Yahoo and Altavista. > Including some of my own. I'm of seriously mixed emotions concerning > web-accessible mailing list archives (Usenet archives are different -- > you _know_ that everything you type is being archived by somebody), as > I've traditionally considered mailing lists "semi-private". So, why use your real identity on "published" lists like this one? I stopped doing that after I found some email I wrote in *1985* web archived and search engine indexed. -- Doug From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 3 00:18:32 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory Message-ID: NO!!!! I just tried to run a SYSGEN on my RT-11 system, and I seem to have lost the filesystem when it started to rebuild the system. I'm able to boot to another partition (gotta love that WQESD controller), and I get the following results: .dir du2: <-DU2: is my main RT-11 disk ?DIR-F-Invalid directory . Please tell me there is a way to recover (unfortuanlty I doubt there is). I wasn't smart enough to make backups and everything I've been working on was on that partition. I'm seriously bummed. However, I finally got smart and made a bootable TK-50 so if need be I can load RT-11 without to much difficulty (other than having to type in the bootstrap by hand). First I can't get TCP/IP to work, and now this.... :^( Looks like once I get everything back together I'll be starting on that from scratch, which might be good. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From hansp at digiweb.com Tue Feb 2 23:55:16 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed References: <4.1.19990202124012.00967e70@206.231.8.2> <3.0.5.32.19990202111104.0092a900@47.161.112.121> <4.1.19990202144506.0096f4a0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <36B7E4C4.CB0A7A95@digiweb.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > In the pages I've seen so far, the 1130 is said to have a max of 16KWord of > memory but my professors at school were bragging about our machine having > 32K of memory (in 1972). Was there in fact an upgrade to 32K _words_ or > were they simply getting 32K bytes and 16K words confoozed? Remember, this > was all quite new to these older age professors then when few > backwater-area colleges our size even had a computer. From hansp at digiweb.com Wed Feb 3 00:00:22 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: Meta-4 manuals References: <199902022243.OAA09374@pop2.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <36B7E5F6.7B1078BB@digiweb.com> Dean Billing wrote: > I still have the manuals for the Meta-4, even though I was dumb enough to > get rid of all of my 1130 manuals. Any chance of putting these on-line or of us getting a copy? The Meta-4 sounds like an interesting machine. Who on this list can honestly say that they have never thrown out anything that they now regret? Regrds, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 3 00:40:25 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:54 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: > > > Well, I've picked up messages from the list through Yahoo and Altavista. > > Including some of my own. I'm of seriously mixed emotions concerning > > web-accessible mailing list archives (Usenet archives are different -- > > you _know_ that everything you type is being archived by somebody), as > > I've traditionally considered mailing lists "semi-private". > > So, why use your real identity on "published" lists like this one? I > stopped doing that after I found some email I wrote in *1985* web archived > and search engine indexed. My name is mine (well, it was also my father's and grandfather's, as there wasn't much originality in my family for a while), and I've never written anything I'm ashamed of in over fifteen years on Usenet and mailing lists. (There are some things I'm _embarrassed_ by, but that's a different category). But on some lists I have been known to show sympathy to "criminals" who never harmed anybody other than themselves with chemicals or plants yet get sentenced to many decades of prison, to "criminals" who made the mistake of defending themselves from thieves or rapists, to "criminals" who offerred an honest product at an honest price when the product was consensual sexual activity (I have a beloved ex-sister-in-law in that last category). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 00:50:11 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: > My name is mine (well, it was also my father's and grandfather's, as > there wasn't much originality in my family for a while), and I've never > written anything I'm ashamed of in over fifteen years on Usenet and > mailing lists. (There are some things I'm _embarrassed_ by, but that's > a different category). Who said anything about shame? The fact is that this list is comprised of casual conversations. I don't like having my casual conversations recorded, but I do like having perls of wisdom archived (and these inevitably come from other list members). So, I compromise. A pseudonym frees you, to some extent, from worries about having your casual conversations recorded or otherwise monitored. On the internet, nobody know's you're really a Dalmatian. Don't let your spots show. Arf. ObCC: I just picked up an old mag with a cover story about Squee, a simple Berkeley robot from the early 1950's. There wasn't enough detail in the article to replicate Squee, but I think I can mimic the look and behavior pretty well with my MindStorms kit. Squee follows a steady light, scoops up a "nut" and then follows a strobe light back to the "nest" to drop off the nut. -- Doug From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Wed Feb 3 01:32:58 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help Message-ID: <001e01be4f47$6cb18c40$2a3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> > With the MB outside the case on a wooden surface and nothing connected >except the power supply plug and the front push button, all that I get is a >twitch from the cpu cooling fan, on only the first push, after that nothing >until it sets for a while. This sort of thing happens with AT power supplies if there is insufficient load. Does the power supply cooling fan rotate? You can check by adding extra load like a hard drive From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Feb 3 01:38:25 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <001e01be4f47$6cb18c40$2a3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Feb 03, 1999 06:32:58 PM Message-ID: <199902030738.AAA23805@calico.litterbox.com> > > > > With the MB outside the case on a wooden surface and nothing connected > >except the power supply plug and the front push button, all that I get is a > >twitch from the cpu cooling fan, on only the first push, after that nothing > >until it sets for a while. > > > This sort of thing happens with AT power supplies if there is insufficient > load. > Does the power supply cooling fan rotate? > > You can check by adding extra load like a hard drive > Important hint. Don't hold the PS button down. It overrides all the safeties in the ps - I'm something of an expert in ATX power supply meltdowns. I'm on ps #7... -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From red at bears.org Wed Feb 3 02:30:00 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Atari 1050 mods? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Jan 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > This sounds like a PSU that's tripping to me. The click could be the > drive's head load solenoid or something like that. Start by connecting a > voltmeter to the 5V line and see what you get. If it is a standard drive > mechanism, then you can (of course) check the power lines at the drive > power connector, if not, then use the power pins of any chip on the logic > board. At the drive power connector (no drive connected) the DMM reads "5.00". The +12 VDC rail reads "11.99". I suspect these are both within tolerance. (: I noticed just now that while the drive clicks, the motor spindle spins without interruption. Also, if I pull the data cable off the drive does nothing (surprise, surprise). It must be something easy. ok r. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 3 02:38:56 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: post-disposal regret (was Re: Meta-4 manuals) In-Reply-To: <36B7E5F6.7B1078BB@digiweb.com> (message from Hans B Pufal on Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:00:22 +0100) References: <199902022243.OAA09374@pop2.ucdavis.edu> <36B7E5F6.7B1078BB@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <19990203083856.31159.qmail@brouhaha.com> Hans B Pufal wrote: > Who on this list can honestly say that they have never thrown out > anything that they now regret? Heck, everything I remember throwing away I seem to regret. But I think that's only because I don't bother remembering the utterly worthless stuff. From svs at ropnet.ru Wed Feb 3 03:41:19 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: KL power question In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203114952.00a99390@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au>; from Huw Davies on Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 11:52:13AM +1100 References: <13424841935.9.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> <4.1.19990203114952.00a99390@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: <19990203124119.31927@firepower> On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 11:52:13AM +1100, Huw Davies wrote: > I wouldn't want to think about the number of batteries required to keep a > KI-10 running (you'd need a fair few just to keep the lights running :-) ObBlinkyLightsInTheDark: -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From kurtkilgor at bigfoot.com Mon Feb 1 12:07:29 1999 From: kurtkilgor at bigfoot.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers References: <199902011534.QAA28437@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 1, 99 04:34:51 pm <199902011645.RAA15534@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <36B5ED61.68AFC035@bigfoot.com> Hans Franke wrote: > Like an E, but no, more like a genic mutated C, crossbreeded > with a debenerated = ... C^H= .... just nonsense - for what > reason we need such a stupid symbol ? Uh-oh, Hans...am I detecting hostility toward the Euro? Why, if it helps to consolidate power in the hands of your government, which can subesequently turn it over to you in the form of taxes? Don't you _want_ a global english-speaking empire ;) From Jgzabol at aol.com Wed Feb 3 04:07:28 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed Message-ID: <90ced324.36b81fe0@aol.com> There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. John G. Zabolitzky From hansp at digiweb.com Wed Feb 3 05:21:26 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: IBM Sindelfingen Museum References: <90ced324.36b81fe0@aol.com> Message-ID: <36B83136.6F50CFD3@digiweb.com> Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. Do you have any contacts there? I would love to visit that place. Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From tim at thereviewguide.com Tue Feb 2 19:17:34 1999 From: tim at thereviewguide.com (Tim Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990202184239.2eef3282@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902031124.DAA29655@geocities.com> Yeah. It's a really non-classic device. (Ca. 1997) They currently have that, as well as a small portable version for handhelds and notebooks. Basically, you use that, pay a monthly fee, and get information from their 'premium' content providers, and notification of new eMail. It works in 'covered' areas across the US. It's just for a standard PC and is thus just a standard serial device. It's a good idea, but I'd like REAL Internet access, thank-you-very-much, not just what some company pays you to give me. But it does update automatically (I think). They're still in business, http://www.airmedia.com . > A friend of mine found this at a garage sale. Small grey box with a long > cord and DB-9 connector. The front of the box says "Air Media Live" and has > a LED on it. Does anyone know what it is? > > Joe > ******************************************** *Tim D. Hotze - Co-Founder, The ReviewGuide* *tim@thereviewguide.com * *http://www.thereviewguide.com * ******************************************** From Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk Wed Feb 3 05:43:44 1999 From: Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers Message-ID: <0025670D.003FA759.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> >> ObCC: so what did you UKans do to get your funny-looking L on >> computers, terminals, and printers imported from ASCII-speaking >> countries? > > It's character 0xA3 (decimal 163, octal 243) in ISO Latin 1, and most > systems that don't have a special key for it map it to the "#" key. On > older systems, quite often the drivers replace the "#" character with the > pound symbol, but some replace the "$". ISO Latin on a classic computer? Pull the other one! ISTR that the IBM PC had it at decimal 156. I have seen it replace $, #, \ (Commodore VIC) and ` (IIRC FTS Series 88, which loaded the character set from disk at boot). Diablo 96-spoke daisywheels used either ESC-Y or ESC-Z (Not in a position to look it up and I can't remember what the 96th spoke was for, either) Philip. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 3 08:38:34 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: More info available? Was: Re: 1130 has been claimed In-Reply-To: <36B7E4C4.CB0A7A95@digiweb.com> References: <4.1.19990202124012.00967e70@206.231.8.2> <3.0.5.32.19990202111104.0092a900@47.161.112.121> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990203083834.305f6962@intellistar.net> At 06:55 AM 2/3/99 +0100, you wrote: >Christian Fandt wrote: > >> In the pages I've seen so far, the 1130 is said to have a max of 16KWord of >> memory but my professors at school were bragging about our machine having >> 32K of memory (in 1972). Was there in fact an upgrade to 32K _words_ or There were also third party mods to add even more memory. I installed some of them (too) many years ago. I remember installing several with 96K words and I think there were larger sizes available. No I don't have any manuals or parts still. Joe From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed Feb 3 04:05:19 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Daily Laugh! Message-ID: <0025670D.003CAEF8.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > You could subscribe from that address, and then tell the list processor > to postpone sending you anything there, and never cancel the postpone > order. I *think* you could still post from that address. Of course, > the list processor may eventually explode, holding back all that postponed > mail... (Would it actually hold copies of all that, or just drop it?) I have used Postpone in the past when I have been away from work and not on such a good phone line as this. It doesn't keep messages waiting for me - I just start again wherever the list has got to when I SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK. Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed Feb 3 04:21:50 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) Message-ID: <0025670D.003D10C7.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > so don't get the idea that you can > run it in your house or garage. My parents have 3-phase electricity at home, but I don't (yet). But I think it's more common in the UK than in the US. (BTW my parents have a 16th century farmhouse which they heat electrically during the winter. Maximum load we've measured, 36kW.) I am told (I think it was Toy Duell first pointed it out to me) you can get reasonable 3-phase using a largeish induction motor (say a mechanical rating 2 or 3 times the electrical load you want to connect), without a mechanical load: wiring one phase to ground, a second to line, and the third to line through a capacitor for an approximate 60 degree phase shift. The induction motor will also act as a generator, and produce enough emf to tidy up the phase relationships and voltage imbalance. But be warned - you will not have the right voltage, and one of the phases (rather than the star point) will be at ground potential. A bank of three single-phase isolating transformers should do the trick if either of these is critical (a single autotransformer, upstream of the converter, will also work if only voltage is critical.) Also be warned. I am confident that this works _in theory_ but I have never tried it. Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed Feb 3 04:02:14 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter Message-ID: <0025670D.003C1D4A.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > I picked up an IBM Displaywriter keyboard unit in a local thrift after eyeing > it for a couple of weeks and finally couldn't resist adding it to my > living-space challenged collection. > I remember seeing mention of it in an old 81 datamation mag and a 50s > style picture of a dedicated secretary busy at work on one and other info in > possibly an old Byte. It was touted as being very popular to the point that it > was touted over the PC and that CP/M programs were being ported to it. > I opened it up and it has only a small I/O board with a 15 pin connector and > takes it's power off that. It looks like an oversized C64. > It obviously doesn't have enough electronics to be more than a keyboard > terminal, but I don't recall seeing a box in the picture. I had understood the > displaywriter to be a stand alone machine. Did it have an additional box or was > it meant to connect to a CRT terminal hooked to a mainframe ? Displaywriter system generally consisted of the following boxes: System unit. PC-sized, half the case == power supply, other half == card cage. Card cage contains system board with 8088 and other cards. Keyboard. The thing you've got Monitor. Very similar to IBM original (mono) PC monitor, I think Printer. Daisywheel, EBCDIC, current loop. Disk drives. Usually a dual 8" unit. Could be SSSD or DSDD iirc. > At present it would seem to be about to join the 3270 monitor I have (can't > remember the model #) as interesting but unusable. > Or could I get gadzillion bucks for it on e-pay ? Any info ? My advice is: keep it against such time someone needs it... Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed Feb 3 04:34:55 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) Message-ID: <0025670D.003E77E8.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > No problem. The tube CD player simply has an AES/EBU (or S/P-DIF) coaxial > digital output. If you want a tube D/A to go with it, that's a separate > product. > > The tube D/A would likely not use oversampling, but rather an 8-pole > analog filter. > > If people want a tube oversampling D/A, that can be a more advanced, larger, > and more expensive model. I agree with Tony. From an audio point of view, chips vs. valves (tubes, for those colonies who've forgotten how to speak English) should make no difference except in the analogue sections. On the digital side they have no more than old computer technology hack value. That said, oversampling and filtering is _not_ hard. People nowadays think only in terms of digital, discrete working and analogue, continuous working. IMHO the place to do oversampling is in between - in the Analogue, Discrete domain. How: Make several A-to-Ds (or one and some sample and hold circuits if you're a cheapskate). The simplest case is linear interpolation which uses only two. I would envisage precision ladder networks or something similar for these. Call them A and B (and C, D, etc.) Have some analogue circuits which use analogue summation techniques to derive (say) A, 0.75A+0.25B, 0.5A+0.5B and 0.25A +0.75B. Switch between them. You now have 4* oversampling, with simple linear interpolation. (After those four valuse, B becomes the new A and the next value from the digital side becomes B...) More complex filters can be implemented with more A-to-Ds (or a series of sample/holds or a bucket brigade etc) and more complex maths in the combinations. IIR filters can be implemented with a sample and hold that remembers the last _output_ And so on. (but dion't forget the conventional analogue filter on the output) No DSP required. Fun,eh? From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Feb 3 06:45:09 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: FA: S100 boards, including Electric Mouth, 2650 processor card, RAM In-Reply-To: <36B7E5F6.7B1078BB@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <001201be4f73$084dc3a0$08f438cb@a.davie> I know some are going to hate me for posting S100 boards on eBay - but I don't have the luxury of a secure financial position to bolster my ethical objections to selling classic systems. I find myself in need of funds, and have decided to sell most of my (very few) S100 boards. I hope that the list don't object too strongly to my posting this email, if not the sale itself. The items currently on auction are S-100 CPU 8085/88 CompuPro processor card http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62207747 S-100 Memory 64K static RAM board http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62208608 S-100 George Morrow Disk Jockey 2D/B http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62209965 S-100 BUS Electric Mouth (Digitalker) Board http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=63238305 There are no reserves on any of the items. I also have a production S100 2650 processor card, the prototype of which is in my S100 system shown at ttp://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/weird/s100.html - this card was made in Australia and had an extremely small production run. Do any others know of 2650 S100 cards? In any case, I can provide a copy of the manual for this and am asking for offers before going to the devil. Scan available upon request. Thanks for looking. A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? From dogas at leading.net Wed Feb 3 07:10:36 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Xerox 800 ? Message-ID: <01be4f76$96b2fb80$fcc962cf@devlaptop> Two Xerox 800 system units with dual tape drives and associated typewriter/terminals are now at a local thrift. They appear to be large (each of the them I guess would top 100lbs) word processing systems with many(?) logged years. Do these have any redeeming value to anyone (expect *serious* dents in your 1)wallet/purse for shipping, and 2)living/storage space for size) ? Or am I missing something I should nab? ;) Regards, all - Mike: dogas@leading.net From dogas at leading.net Wed Feb 3 07:14:33 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: S100 boards, including Electric Mouth, 2650 processor card, RAM Message-ID: <01be4f77$23bc5440$fcc962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie Boo... Hiss... How much? ;) - Mike: dogas@leading.net From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 3 08:29:10 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <36B5ED61.68AFC035@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <199902031330.OAA28260@horus.mch.sni.de> > > Like an E, but no, more like a genic mutated C, crossbreeded > > with a debenerated = ... C^H= .... just nonsense - for what > > reason we need such a stupid symbol ? > Uh-oh, Hans...am I detecting hostility toward the Euro? No, just about some stuipd ideas around like a) the name - calling it Euro and cent is a coward like solution to avoide any problems with choosing a real name. b) the dual labeling in stores for THREE years - nonsense c) the tree year period of having a new curency but not issuing notes or coins - three years of double book keeping, enormus software costs and tree years of possible fraud (They offered the bad guys a lot of time to develop strategies and 'earn' their money). d) The stupid symbol. > Why, if it helps > to consolidate power in the hands of your government, which can > subesequently turn it over to you in the form of taxes? Don't you _want_ > a global english-speaking empire ;) Of course .... what could be better than that (maybe with an exception for a chineese speaking world) - no, serious, I live very happy within some 20 million Bavarian speaking people (and the other ca. 100 M German speaking that I can at least understand :) - so for what I need In'glisch ? TBOTA: the country specific variants of the 7-Bit ASCII have been some trouble in the past, maybe it wasn't that visible for the US boys (Did you know that there is also a kind of cyrillic (russian) ASCII, where they not only replaced a few symbols, but rather the whole alpha chars (and some additional, since they have more letters). Even when using latin type ASCII (7 Bit) there have been a lot of efforts to create multi language editors for CP/M ... In the beginning even a single language version of Wordstar was not possible other than US/GB english, since the code positions where the 'special' letters where assigned have been assumed to be non letters "@$&{[]}\|". Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Feb 3 07:34:35 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory References: Message-ID: <36B8506B.5B00357E@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > NO!!!! I just tried to run a SYSGEN on my RT-11 system, and I seem to have > lost the filesystem when it started to rebuild the system. I'm able to > boot to another partition (gotta love that WQESD controller), and I get the > following results: > > .dir du2: <-DU2: is my main RT-11 disk > > ?DIR-F-Invalid directory > > Please tell me there is a way to recover (unfortuanlty I doubt there is). > I wasn't smart enough to make backups and everything I've been working on > was on that partition. > > I'm seriously bummed. However, I finally got smart and made a bootable > TK-50 so if need be I can load RT-11 without to much difficulty (other than > having to type in the bootstrap by hand). > > First I can't get TCP/IP to work, and now this.... :^( Looks like once I > get everything back together I'll be starting on that from scratch, which > might be good. Jerome Fine replies: There might be a way to recover some of the files and depending on the state of the directory, almost all of the files that you have modified. But, I would need a lot of information, probably a file with the contents of the first 68 blocks on the DU2: unit. So don't despair as yet. 1. Create a 68 block file on the good unit that you can still boot from: CREATE DU2.DIR[68] 2. Make it a logical MOUNT LD2: DU2.DIR 3. Copy the first 68 blocks of DU2: to the logical COPY/DEV DU2:/START:0./END:67. LD2:/START:0. 4. Compare the logical and DU2: to be absolutely sure. DIFF/BIN/DEV DU2: LD2: 5. Send me the file DU2.DIR via e-mail You probably do not need the full 68 blocks since it was very doubtful that you ever used that many. If you know anything about the structure of a directory, then do a: DUMP/TERM DU2: and note where the directory information stops. The block numbers are in octal and the dump is in octal. Even if you know next to nothing (or even nothing), you should be able to separate out directory information from junk or format. The directory proper starts at block 6. If the directory is (almost certainly) smaller than 31 segments, then adjust the size of the file that you set up as a logical accordingly. If you need more information, please ask. One thing this exercise will do is to determine if there are any unreadable blocks as opposed to blocks with bad data. It is possible that only BLOCK 1 (2nd block on DU2:) is bad (unlikely) and the actual directory is GOOD. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 3 07:48:21 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory Message-ID: <199902031348.AA28244@world.std.com> >NO!!!! I just tried to run a SYSGEN on my RT-11 system, and I seem to >have lost the filesystem when it started to rebuild the system. I'm able >to boot to another partition (gotta love that WQESD controller), and I >get the following results: > >.dir du2: <-DU2: is my main RT-11 disk > >?DIR-F-Invalid directory What was the last thing you did (exact command, if you can remember it) before you noticed the disk directory was bad - this will help in determining how bad off you are. If it was something trivial, and the directory (blocks 6 to 68) is intact, it probably is something wrong with the home block (block 1). If it wasn't something trivial, then the files may still be there, but it will take some work finding the beginning of them (and it will take your knowledge of what was on the disk). Remember, RT-11 files are contiguous -- once you've found the beginning of one, the whole file will be there (unless it was partially overwritten). >Please tell me there is a way to recover (unfortuanlty I doubt there is). >I wasn't smart enough to make backups and everything I've been working on >was on that partition. As I mentioned, it depends on what you might have done... then again, the controller might have, in a fit of brilliance, written whatever it pleased on the disk... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 3 08:59:00 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <0025670D.003E77E8.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199902031400.PAA04776@horus.mch.sni.de> > > No problem. The tube CD player simply has an AES/EBU (or S/P-DIF) coaxial > > digital output. If you want a tube D/A to go with it, that's a separate > > product. > > The tube D/A would likely not use oversampling, but rather an 8-pole > > analog filter. > > If people want a tube oversampling D/A, that can be a more advanced, larger, > > and more expensive model. > I agree with Tony. From an audio point of view, chips vs. valves (tubes, > for those colonies who've forgotten how to speak English) should make no > difference except in the analogue sections. On the digital side they have > no more than old computer technology hack value. YOu just forgot about the hacking value - the social hacking value. That's when you sell such a 'All Analogue CD Player' to hifi fanatics. All tubes (valves or better lets use a rel word: Röhren :) technique ! No Transistors nor computers - all 'golden' tube sound ... and all digital :) > [...] > No DSP required. > Fun,eh? Jep, fun, but thats an add on unit ... Remember: Player GBP 8.000,- Simple D/A GBP 6.000,- Oversampling D/A GBP 9.000,- Super Duper High Quality Using Several D/A And Analogous Loop Storage Devices AD for now only GBP 15.000,- And I would not bet against selling that ... Gruss H. PS: There was a show for this kind of freaks last year in munic - our CD set might have been a real bargain on that show - simple 4 valve amplifiers (NEW, not classic) where sold for more than 4000 Mark ! -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Wed Feb 3 08:01:13 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: S100 boards Message-ID: Andrew Davie[SMTP:adavie@mad.scientist.com] writes: >S-100 George Morrow Disk Jockey 2D/B Hmm, 50 pins, could that possibly be a SASI card? As in Shugart Associates pre-SCSI bus Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Wed Feb 3 08:13:07 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers Message-ID: Hans Franke[SMTP:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] writes: >> Uh-oh, Hans...am I detecting hostility toward the Euro? > >No, just about some stuipd ideas around like >a) the name - calling it Euro and cent is a coward like solution > >d) The stupid symbol. Ah, just an image problem - nothing that a few billion units of advertising can't fix. You'll get used to it :/ Look at what effective marketing did for uSoft. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 3 08:30:51 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <199902030738.AAA23805@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > Important hint. Don't hold the PS button down. It overrides all the safeties > in the ps - I'm something of an expert in ATX power supply meltdowns. I'm > on ps #7... I hope you made those first six look like accidents or suicide. (I rather despise the ATX "standard" myself -- it makes it hard to find a good motherboard to occupy this old AT&T 6386E carcass). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 3 09:35:00 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Gorilla manual In-Reply-To: <001501be4f2c$adfdf690$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990202235035.30775080@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902031435.PAA12684@horus.mch.sni.de> > Damn, anyone got an upgrade to Human Eyes 1.01 :) No, sorry. Hans (Still using V0.71 with glasses 2.0 - who ever will need this stupid stereo vision ?) OBCC: I remember an old Apple II programm for 3D pictures, where you had to use a sheet of paper (right between the eyes :) and two pictures where displayed - it was written in Forth - does anybody still have a copy ? -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 3 08:55:50 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: S100 boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Andrew Davie[SMTP:adavie@mad.scientist.com] writes: > > >S-100 George Morrow Disk Jockey 2D/B > > Hmm, 50 pins, could that possibly be a SASI card? > As in Shugart Associates pre-SCSI bus > No. It's sa1000 series 8" hard disk interface. Allison From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed Feb 3 09:31:41 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > recorded, but I do like having perls of wisdom archived (and these ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > -- Doug > > Yo Big Dee.... computers are beginning to *pollute* you, man. Chz John From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 3 09:58:31 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: FS/FT: HP Documentation Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990203075831.0092f210@mail.bluefeathertech.com> I have the following available, both from HP: 'Data Systems Customer Support Handbook' dated Sep. 1980. Contains technical and support data for what appears to be a wide variety of early HP computer hardware, including what looks like source code for diagnostics (I just skimmed it -- didn't really read in detail). Here's a sample from the Table of Contents. Common Data 2114/15/16 2100 21MX-M and 21MX-E Power Supplies/Extenders Memories/Accessories Input/Output Parts Operating Systems I also have a binderful of user's guides for the HP9825A desktop system, circa March 1980, including: Operating and Programming 9872A Plotter Programming 98034A HPIB Interface - Installation and Service 98035A RTC - Installation and Operation Advanced Programming 98032A 16-bit Interface - Installation and Service Extended I/O Programming Matrix Programming General I/O Programming String Variable Programming 98036A Serial Interface - Installation and Service Systems Programming Message-ID: <4.1.19990203093701.00983cf0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 11:21 AM 2/3/99 +0100, Philip.Belben@pgen.com said something like: > > > >> so don't get the idea that you can >> run it in your house or garage. > >My parents have 3-phase electricity at home, but I don't (yet). But I >think it's more common in the UK than in the US. (BTW my parents have a >16th century farmhouse which they heat electrically during the winter. >Maximum load we've measured, 36kW.) 36kW!! Ouch! And cost of electricity is, I understand, higher than in the US, true? Except Jamestown, we pay only $0.03565 per KWH :-) so electric heat is not such a financial killer for homeowners (or for nuts like me with working big iron computers in the basement). Yes, very few private residences in North America have 3 ph power _unless_ it was asked for and installed, of course at an extra co$t. If someone has a garage or machine shop at home (and the local zoning laws permit it) then 3 ph can be installed. Otherwise, bigger apartment buildings, larger offices and factory buildings are usually wired for 3 ph at 240 volts or 480 volts. Anyway, figure that we're stuck with 230 volt single phase (115 volts from either leg to earth) at our NA homes, while as I've seen for example normally in Southern Germany at least, 380 volt 3 ph (220 volts from either leg to earth) is the norm in most other modernized parts of the world. > >I am told (I think it was Toy Duell first pointed it out to me) you can get >reasonable 3-phase using a largeish induction motor (say a mechanical >rating 2 or 3 times the electrical load you want to connect), without a >mechanical load: wiring one phase to ground, a second to line, and the >third to line through a capacitor for an approximate 60 degree phase shift. >The induction motor will also act as a generator, and produce enough emf to >tidy up the phase relationships and voltage imbalance. But be warned - you Yes, I've heard of this often being used for machine shops which are not wired for 3 ph (such as those garage-based shops in an area where no 3 ph power is distributed). Good for only inductive loads such as the machine motors found in a shop. Our computers may not tolerate this though, especially switching PSUs. Tony? Have you thought about that aspect much? >will not have the right voltage, and one of the phases (rather than the >star point) will be at ground potential. A bank of three single-phase >isolating transformers should do the trick if either of these is critical >(a single autotransformer, upstream of the converter, will also work if >only voltage is critical.) If the rotary converter system discussed above could be used for non-motor loads such as computers with switchmode PSUs, then one _should_ use isolation transformers to avoid accidents if parts of the line side of the PSU is touched to earth or by one's hand. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 3 09:59:23 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Spam References: Message-ID: <36B8725B.2B814075@rain.org> Just curious if anyone else on this list is getting hit with a barrage of badly done spam from overseas? From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 3 10:13:41 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: eBay performance art Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990203101341.01021100@pc> I hate to interrupt the discussion of "how to build a CD player if you're stuck on a desert island with a box of valves and a solder gun," but a friend sent me a note about an interesting eBay auction (sorry, Doug, but you might like it): Be sure to follow the link under "Read more information about this auction" for The Rest Of The Story. - John From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 3 10:14:34 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: FA: S100 boards, including Electric Mouth, 2650 processor card, RAM References: <001201be4f73$084dc3a0$08f438cb@a.davie> Message-ID: <36B875EA.4CF8E400@rain.org> Andrew Davie wrote: > > I know some are going to hate me for posting S100 boards on eBay - but I > don't have the luxury of a secure financial position to bolster my ethical > objections to selling classic systems. I find myself in need of funds, and Good thing you said *some* as I have no problem with it! Do you have the manual/schematics with any of the boards, in particular the "Electric Mouth"? One of the things I almost never get rid of is documentation (unless there are duplicates), and I don't recall having the docs/schematics on that board. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Feb 3 10:17:16 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: eBay performance art In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990203101341.01021100@pc> Message-ID: <13425096433.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Reads the above] Fsck! Fsck fsck fsck! You beat me to it! I was gonna post this here, this just plain rules. ------- From jpero at cgocable.net Wed Feb 3 10:20:04 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <199902030738.AAA23805@calico.litterbox.com> References: <001e01be4f47$6cb18c40$2a3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Feb 03, 1999 06:32:58 PM Message-ID: <199902031617.LAA10757@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:38:25 -0700 (MST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Jim Strickland To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Need some O.T. help Snip! About meltdowns...wow! Where do you got those PSU and what brand says on those PSU's? I think you might have a bum reseller using substandard ATX PSU's? I have worked with ATX PSU to lower level so I could learn how to troubleshoot them down the road. Reasons this is really impossible to burn up several by holding that button in: 1. Softswitch is plugged to the motherboard (that removes any chances of burning up PSU!) 2. Turning on and keeping running the ATX PSU requires the power enable (it's held high themselves.) held low to ground to keep running. Simple job of a right AWG copper wire jammed between that power enable and the ground wire next over. That's is controlled by the motherboard itself when PSU is plugged into motherboard. 3. Motherboard, CPU and ram is enough load as is unless that PSU is poor make. Oh, insure yours is ATX 2.01 spec with .8mA to 1A on standby 5V and fan that blows out. That is where has to put a new rule along with one hand behind back, if needs to work on NLX and ATX machines, unplug that power cord! But this is good for anything else anyway. Jason D. > > -- > Jim Strickland From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 3 10:25:15 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory In-Reply-To: <199902031348.AA28244@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Feb 3, 99 08:48:21 am Message-ID: <199902031625.IAA01919@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1051 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/cf2ad80f/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 3 11:52:09 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203093701.00983cf0@206.231.8.2> References: <0025670D.003D10C7.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199902031653.RAA07944@horus.mch.sni.de> > >My parents have 3-phase electricity at home, but I don't (yet). But I > >think it's more common in the UK than in the US. (BTW my parents have a > >16th century farmhouse which they heat electrically during the winter. > >Maximum load we've measured, 36kW.) > 36kW!! Ouch! And cost of electricity is, I understand, higher than in the > US, true? Except Jamestown, we pay only $0.03565 per KWH :-) so electric > heat is not such a financial killer for homeowners (or for nuts like me > with working big iron computers in the basement). My line is prepared for 40 kW 3 phases, since the former owner also used electric heating (this kind of night loading heating), but since I switched for gas, I can use anything for my computers :))) > Anyway, figure that we're stuck with 230 volt single phase (115 volts from > either leg to earth) at our NA homes, while as I've seen for example > normally in Southern Germany at least, 380 volt 3 ph (220 volts from either > leg to earth) is the norm in most other modernized parts of the world. In facht it is 400V/230V since more than 10 to 15 years, but everybody is still talking about 380V/220V ... And yes, 3 phases are the only kind of connections the power companies offer - so the outlets will be split up among the phases to get an even load (3 phases outlets are not very common :). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 3 11:56:43 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: "System Software for Soviet Computers" and more... In-Reply-To: <19990130201221.22210@firepower> Message-ID: <199902031657.RAA08546@horus.mch.sni.de> Speaking of "System Software for Soviet Computers": I'm still looking for more information (and of course Soft) for my Estonian Juku computer. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 3 12:04:59 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199902031705.SAA09673@horus.mch.sni.de> > Who said anything about shame? The fact is that this list is comprised of > casual conversations. I don't like having my casual conversations > recorded, but I do like having perls of wisdom archived (and these > inevitably come from other list members). Me_Too(TM) don't feel comfortable with a _public_ archive of this list. I considere this more privat - and for the pe(a)rls in here, I made up two archives (_on_my_hard_disk_) - one where every pice is stored, and one where I put the very genuine things. So I have any possible search option (fast and local) and privacy (i hope). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From msg at computerpro.com Wed Feb 3 11:19:39 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available References: <3.0.1.16.19990202180914.43dff90e@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19990202235508.30773958@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36B8852B.9757D697@computerpro.com> Joe wrote: > > At 06:33 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: > >Please consider making disk images (teledisk, nwdos diskimage, etc.) of > >these before parting with them; there are many many folks who can't find > >the o/s and they would surely like copies (including us) > > > >Michael Grigoni > >Cybertheque Museum > > I will if the PC will read these disks. The originals shouldn't be a > problem but some of the copies may be in Michtron's bastardized 80 track 10 > sector format. Is there any place that's keeping an archive of MS-DOS > stuff like Don does for the CPM stuff? > > Joe Shouldn't teledisk handle this ok? Even DOS's 'driver.sys' should allow the physical geometry to be set for the source drive IIRC. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From kevan at heydon.org Wed Feb 3 11:42:56 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: <199902031705.SAA09673@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: As the creator of the web archive I feel I should reply... On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > Me_Too(TM) don't feel comfortable with a _public_ archive of this If other people are of the same opinion then I will take down the web archives. I can always use the 170MB (and now growing at a rate of about 12MB a month) of disk space they take at the moment. Instead of cluttering the list send mail to me directly at kevan@heydon.org and I will count the votes. > list. I considere this more privat - and for the pe(a)rls in here, > I made up two archives (_on_my_hard_disk_) - one where every pice > is stored, and one where I put the very genuine things. So I have > any possible search option (fast and local) and privacy (i hope). I also tend to keep post that I think will be usefull (which happens to be most of Tony Duells posts) in a mail folder. I have also been keeping entire threads with a thought to extracting the pearls of wisdom into web pages. It is much less work to archive the entire list than it is to manually extract particular bits of information. It is also easy to let the major search engines trawl the list archive to allow searching. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From Jgzabol at aol.com Wed Feb 3 12:21:58 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: IBM Sindelfingen Museum Message-ID: <981a40ad.36b893c6@aol.com> In einer eMail vom 03.02.99 12:24:16 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. Do you have any contacts there? I would love to visit that place. Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue >> The IBM museum there is a very remarkable place indeed. They have a lot of equipment in perfect working condition, beginning with Hollerith equipment more than 100 years old, _WORKING_ 650, _WORKING_ 1401, _WORKING_ 1130, and several other things. Contacts there are Mr. Reimer, or Mr. Spengler, or Mr. Kistermann, +49-711-785 7434 phone. The setup is that IBM pays the building any any direct cost, no salaries, and the people there are all retired IBM employees - having all the knowledge, tools, etc. , contributing their hours !! The address is Bahnhofstrasse 43, Sindelfingen. This is NOT a public place, visit by appointment ONLY. The people there however enjoy very much showing their beautifully kept machines. Regards John G. Zabolitzky From arfonrg at texas.net Wed Feb 3 12:40:30 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Tandy Pin-outs??? In-Reply-To: References: <199901231039.FAA05318@pechter.nws.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990203124030.0095b200@texas.net> Anyone know of a web site that has the TRS-80s and CoCo serial port pin-outs??? Thanks, Arfon From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 3 13:10:53 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: References: <199902031705.SAA09673@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <4.1.19990203133049.0097ce50@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:42 AM 2/3/99 -0800, Kevan Heydon said something like: > >As the creator of the web archive I feel I should reply... > >On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: >> >> Me_Too(TM) don't feel comfortable with a _public_ archive of this > >If other people are of the same opinion then I will take down the web >archives. Kevin, isn't there a way to completely hide this archive from any search engine? I'm no web weenie so others here who are should jump in and answer. Links that ClassicCmp folks put on their pages to the archive do, of course, blow the cover. What if we just have an unannounced or "secret" URL for the archive? List members could be given it and a note placed prominently on each archive page stating this is priviledged information and not to be publicly released because of unprotected email addresses or something. List members will just have to write the "secret" URL on a Post-it note and place it on their computer or tack board. Passing of it to new members or those of us who have lost the addr. would be given it only by private email. Well, it's just an idea. This list is, in my opinion, a very significant source of technical and anecdotal infomation about our old machines the likes of which probably could never be found elsewhere. I've learned so _very, very_ much from many of you since 10 December, 1997 when I joined. Witness the recent IBM 1130 thread. We found more info relating to them and a working system in Germany! I've got DEC gear in my collection which several have been helping me on it. I really hope I helped a few of you too. It's been discussed here before, and again I'll state that it's a pet peeve, that some really important tidbits of info on our classics is not found by any search engine that I know of. So there seems to be some way the pages are hidden. In this case of securing our ClassicCmp archive's privacy, the pet peeve is hereby released :-) I can always use the 170MB (and now growing at a rate of about >12MB a month) of disk space they take at the moment. Instead of cluttering >the list send mail to me directly at kevan@heydon.org and I will count the >votes. I'll send you a vote privately but I do want to say the archive is a very important resource (flame wars and very off topic junk excepted of course). I think nearly all of us feel access to it is needed no matter where it is kept. The U. of Washington archive site is not available since haliotis is shut down. >> list. I considere this more privat - and for the pe(a)rls in here, >> I made up two archives (_on_my_hard_disk_) - one where every pice >> is stored, and one where I put the very genuine things. So I have >> any possible search option (fast and local) and privacy (i hope). > >I also tend to keep post that I think will be usefull (which happens to be >most of Tony Duells posts) in a mail folder. I have also been keeping >entire threads with a thought to extracting the pearls of wisdom into web >pages. > >It is much less work to archive the entire list than it is to manually >extract particular bits of information. It is also easy to let the major >search engines trawl the list archive to allow searching. > Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 3 13:36:06 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm un happy with public archives as they tend to get address farmed and as is I'm getting too much junk mail that suggests a data farming from at elast one other list I'm now inactive(read only) in. Allison From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 3 13:46:17 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Tandy Pin-outs??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990203124030.0095b200@texas.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > Anyone know of a web site that has the TRS-80s and CoCo serial port > pin-outs??? For the Color Computer bit-banger: http://lwp.ualg.pt/docs/hwb/co_TandyCoCoSerPrinter.html The serial ports on the TRS-80s with DB-25 connectors are standard DTE pin-out, except in the cases of some Model IIs that were modified for Bisynch. Oh, the Model 16/6000 3-port serial card ports were pinned out like DTE with a null-modem (which isn't _quite_ DCE). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 3 13:49:13 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990203134913.0102d1b0@pc> If we really wanted to get this discussion rolling, we could debate whether anyone had the right to take the archives and include them on a CD with a "Profit From Old Computers The EBay Way" book. - John From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 3 13:49:08 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990203144201.0097f310@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:36 PM 2/3/99 -0500, allisonp@world.std.com said something like: > >I'm un happy with public archives as they tend to get address farmed and >as is I'm getting too much junk mail that suggests a data farming from at >elast one other list I'm now inactive(read only) in. > FWIW, since I changed ISP's back in October, I have not had _any_ spam or such garbage whatsoever. I love it!!! I've posted here often so it seems that spambots may not have dredged addresses from our archive (at least since last Oct. sometime.) When I post to NG's I make darn sure I have my email addr. altered so that those danged spambots don't get it. I use c_fandt@net_sync.net, which works quite well. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 3 14:03:53 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: FS/FT: HP Documentation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990203075831.0092f210@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > I have the following available, both from HP: > > 'Data Systems Customer Support Handbook' dated Sep. 1980. Contains > technical and support data for what appears to be a wide variety of early > HP computer hardware, including what looks like source code for diagnostics > (I just skimmed it -- didn't really read in detail). Here's a sample from > the Table of Contents. > > Common Data > 2114/15/16 > 2100 > 21MX-M and 21MX-E > Power Supplies/Extenders > Memories/Accessories > Input/Output > Parts > Operating Systems Speaking of 2100 Computers, I have a couple of paperback manuals from HP, to wit: A Pocket Guide to the 2100 Computer 9/72 5951-4423 (Contains sections titled) 2100A Reference Manual Assembler Reference Manual Basic Control System Reference Manual BASIC Language Reference Manual A Pocket Guide to Interfacing the HP 2100 Computer 3/73 5951-4498 Introduction Hardware Specifications Multiplexing Methods The DMA Option Programming Considerations Appendix Any interest? Offers? - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://devili.iki.fi/cpm with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 3 14:35:23 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:55 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available In-Reply-To: <36B8852B.9757D697@computerpro.com> Message-ID: Joe wrote: > > I will if the PC will read these disks. The originals shouldn't be a > problem but some of the copies may be in Michtron's bastardized 80 track 10 > sector format. Is there any place that's keeping an archive of MS-DOS > stuff like Don does for the CPM stuff? I certainly do not keep it all - nor want to - but I do keep some of the older semi/non-compatible DOS stuff, Joe. - don From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 3 14:52:31 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <0025670D.003E77E8.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) References: <0025670D.003E77E8.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <19990203205231.2068.qmail@brouhaha.com> Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > That said, oversampling and filtering is _not_ hard. People nowadays think > only in terms of digital, discrete working and analogue, continuous > working. IMHO the place to do oversampling is in between - in the > Analogue, Discrete domain. After you do the D/A, you have a huge amount of sampling noise at Fs/2 (and its harmonics). For a CD player, Fs is 44.1 KHz, so the sampling noise is at 22.05 KHz. Since the desired audio frequency response extends to 20 KHz, a non-oversampled player needs "brick wall" analog filters, with a pass band to 20 KHz, and a stop band starting below 22.05 KHz. Digital oversampling is used to move the sampling noise to a higher frequency. 4x oversampling moves it to 88.2 KHz. The oversampling filter is a low-pass filter, so the audio content still has a frequency response to somewhere above 20 KHz. But now your analog filter can have a much shallower slope, which is easier to implement and introduces much less phase distortion. Your analog oversampling scheme does not eliminate the noise at Fs/2, and in fact introduces more sampling noise at higher frequencies. It does not help reduce the requirements of the analog filter. Further notes on oversampling: The digital oversampling filter can effectively implement a tradeoff between the quantization and time domains. For instance, many early CD players used 14-bit D/A converters with 4x oversampling. It can be shown that this does not lose any of the data on the disc, and ignoring the analog filtering issues, is fully equivalent to a non-oversampled 16-bit D/A. But due to two factors, the 4x 14-bit converter actually produces a *more* accurate reproduction than the 1x 16-bit converter: 1) The reduced requirements on the analog filter, 2) It is easier to get precision in the time domain (using a crystal oscillator clock source) than in the quantization. D/A converters have inherent problems with linearity of output across changes at power-of-two boundaries. This is most noticable at the midpoint (or zero) crossing, where it is crucial that a change of the most significant bit must have exactly the same weighting as the change of all of the lower order bits plus one LSB. Most audiophiles seemed not to believe it, and thought that it was important to get 16-bit converters, even if they weren't oversampled. Of course, a 4x 16-bit converter is even better than a 4x 14-bit converter. The logical extreme of oversampling is to use such a high factor that you only need one bit of data. This is called a delta-sigma D/A converter. For 16-bit source data this would require at least 65536x oversampling, but there are some tricks to reduce this to e.g. 128x. This is the basis of the so-called "1-bit" D/A converters. The advantage is that you only need a single-pole analog filter (and in practice can get by without even that), and that the tradeoff from quantization to time domain has been maximized, which is good because it is much easier to get high precision in the time domain as described above. Note that many of the same audiophiles that thought that they were being cheated by 4x 14-bit converters have been completely "taken in" by 1-bit converters, even though their own reasoning should suggest that they are being cheated 7.5 times as much as by the 4x 14-bit converter. From elvey at hal.com Wed Feb 3 15:09:58 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <19990203205231.2068.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902032110.NAA26156@civic.hal.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > Note that many of the same audiophiles that thought that they were being > cheated by 4x 14-bit converters have been completely "taken in" by 1-bit > converters, even though their own reasoning should suggest that they are > being cheated 7.5 times as much as by the 4x 14-bit converter. Hi I agree, the 1 bit converters are mostly better than the 14/16 bitters because timing is much easier to control than level. There are noise issues at the high end but it is usually less than that caused by response in the straight D/A's. As for the averaging filtering, I once thought it would be best like Philip Belben suggest until I saw the FFT results of some pure tones feed thru such a filter. I think that zero padding is the only way to deal with oversampling with a good filter following it. IMHO Dwight From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 3 15:43:13 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: HP 2100 Documentation In-Reply-To: <199902032110.NAA26156@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: Wow! It's gone! - don From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 3 15:52:41 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory Message-ID: <199902032152.AA11357@world.std.com> >Second to the last command: IND SYSGEN >Last command: told it to build only the monitors Then I would say that it may depend on what you specified for the output files for the sysgen. You see, it is possible for just about any command issued under RT to specify a disk without a filename... in which case the output of whatever command you have issued will be to the *disk*, beginning with block 0... this means that depending on how many blocks are written, you may wipe out the boot block (0), home block (1), secondary boot blocks (2-5), directory (6-67) and files (beginning with block 68). >It made it through the first bit of assembling (pardon the description, >I'm still learning) and then it bombed. I tried to start it again and it >bombed immediatly. At which point I decided to type: BOOT DU2: Again, I'd need to see the *exact* commands issued to know how bad it might be... >The worst part is that I'd noticed that FLX under RSX11M couldn't write >to the drive the night before. I guess I should have backed up my data >at that point. Hmmm... then sysgen and what it was doing may not be the problem. What is the disk you are using? If an MSCP disk (like an RD series disk), one or more blocks may have the 'forced error' bit set... which results in errors when you attempt to read it. The way to clear this error is to write the block (which I believe results in a revectoring process for the bad block). The data for that block may be lost, however... I seem to remember the option '/K' for DUP... I'll have to check the documentation. One thing which may be a problem is that if the bad block is in the 'system area', blocks 0-68, then RT pretty much refuses to allow you to do anything with the disk... the idea being that there are times when not enough of a device driver is in memory to do bad-block revectoring... >I guess I should look at it this way, even if I can't recover the data, I >think I've got printouts of most of it. I'll only really have to >re-enter a couple of the files, since the rest I don't really need. I think it may be time to resurrect my RT volume analyzer and recovery program and get back to work on it... >Does RT-11 have some sort of utility like "BRU" under RSX-11, or "BACKUP" >under VMS? I think I need to start backing up nightly to TK50 if I'm >going to be doing much work on the system. BACKUP.SAV... KMON (keyboard monitor) command 'BACKUP' (or backup/restore) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 3 16:40:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990203134913.0102d1b0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, John Foust wrote: > If we really wanted to get this discussion rolling, we could debate > whether anyone had the right to take the archives and include > them on a CD with a "Profit From Old Computers The EBay Way" book. What!? Did this actually occur? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 3 16:49:55 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory In-Reply-To: <199902032152.AA11357@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Feb 3, 99 04:52:41 pm Message-ID: <199902032249.OAA32739@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 750 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/47f46b92/attachment.ksh From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 17:10:53 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > > If we really wanted to get this discussion rolling, we could debate > > whether anyone had the right to take the archives and include > > them on a CD with a "Profit From Old Computers The EBay Way" book. > > What!? Did this actually occur? Not yet, but Marvin is reviewing my proofs. We're also doing a monthly magazine, and Tony has agreed to pose for a centerfold. -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 13:18:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: PDP paper tape - PC04/PC05 (offer to trade)! In-Reply-To: <015b01be4f30$77778a60$0101a8c0@jay> from "Jay West" at Feb 2, 99 10:48:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/308a7f40/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 13:23:32 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: from "Ward D. Griffiths III" at Feb 3, 99 00:55:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 761 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/6e26df1f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 13:26:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <199902030738.AAA23805@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Feb 3, 99 00:38:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 605 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/972273ea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 13:29:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Atari 1050 mods? In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Feb 3, 99 03:30:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1454 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/1ac09bec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 13:51:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203093701.00983cf0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Feb 3, 99 10:57:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1974 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/3f58a89c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 16:16:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Tandy Pin-outs??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990203124030.0095b200@texas.net> from "Arfon Gryffydd" at Feb 3, 99 12:40:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1543 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/ae5e6b33/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Feb 3 17:12:54 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk "Re: Euro on old computers" (Feb 3, 11:43) References: <0025670D.003FA759.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Message-ID: <9902032312.ZM22896@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 3, 11:43, Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk wrote: > ISO Latin on a classic computer? Pull the other one! Well, an Archimedes is certainly a classic computer (born 1987), and it's native character set is ISO Latin 1. SunOS supported it then, too, IIRC. > ISTR that the IBM PC had it at decimal 156. I have seen it replace $, #, \ > (Commodore VIC) and ` Most common is to replace #, but ` is not so rare. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Feb 3 17:39:29 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990202235158.307728bc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000301be4fce$7117e040$4ab0adce@5x86jk> I purchased mine for 50 cents (NEW had tons of them) at used computer store here and the guy told me about it. He told me to check out HP's web site if I wanted more info. I have not checked because he also said that if you knew how to hack you could make it work any way enough said. > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 5:52 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: What is this? HP internet antenna > > > At 06:12 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: > >It a news service that you sign up for and pay a monthly fee to > use. John > > Is this the only piece that you need? Do you know what the name of the > service is so I can find out more about it? > > Joe > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > >> [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Joe > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:43 PM > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: What is this? HP internet antenna > >> > >> > >> A friend of mine found this at a garage sale. Small grey box > with a long > >> cord and DB-9 connector. The front of the box says "Air Media > >> Live" and has > >> a LED on it. Does anyone know what it is? > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > > > From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 3 17:48:29 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Ebay for fun and profit References: Message-ID: <36B8E04D.43D9F4C@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, John Foust wrote: > > > If we really wanted to get this discussion rolling, we could debate > > whether anyone had the right to take the archives and include > > them on a CD with a "Profit From Old Computers The EBay Way" book. > > What!? Did this actually occur? Advertisement Profit From Old Computers the Ebay Way by many This compilation of postings from the Classic Computer Listserver is filled with valuable information. Just a few of the many topics include: O Is Ebay a good way to sell classic computers? O Yes it is, but don't tell anyone O Value is what people are willing to pay, and how to get them to pay more. O The advantages of putting *RARE* somewhere in the title description O Using the Search engine for maximum efficiency Yes, this is just a few of the many topics covered in this soon to be released book, cd, newsletter, and other means of spaming, er, distribution. The comments contained in this work is not available at your local store ... yet unless we find out that will make us more money. Read all the raw, unedited, and frequently hot comments on selling the Ebay way. Available soon. From manney at hmcltd.net Wed Feb 3 17:53:04 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Adam parts Message-ID: <01be4fd0$56fbffa0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial source for them? What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? manney From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Feb 3 18:04:58 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) Message-ID: <007801be4fd2$01719520$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999 3:29 Subject: Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) Except Jamestown, we pay only $0.03565 per KWH :-) Lucky boy. We pay 12 cents a KWH in this part of Oz. Most people with serious heating needs opt for natural gas. Mind you, we don't need heat as much anyway, but an airconditioner of reasonable size can cost upwards of 20c an hour to run, and in summer (like now) we need it. Might have to emigrate....:^) 3 phase is uncommon outside industrial sites. ETSA (Electricity Trust of South Australia) will only install it if you can prove you need it. 415v 3 phase, that is. Some (all electric) homes may have a couple of seperate 240vac single phase circuits that are fed from seperate phases, but even that's unusual. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 3 18:24:10 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: OT: ebay award on ebay Message-ID: Ok, if this is not the funniest online saga since the beginning of the web I don't know what is. First of all, if you haven't checked out the auction, go now to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayisapi.dll?viewitem&item=62692227 Also, be sure to read this article which puts the icing on this cake: http://www.rewired.com/cgi-bin/rewired_redirect.cgi?year=99&article=0125.html I can't wait to see how this all turns out. Amazingly, this thing is already up to $5,100! That's only $1000 less than the Alto II. Seems like we're collecting the wrong stuff. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 3 18:31:52 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 3, 99 06:10:53 pm Message-ID: <199902040031.QAA05382@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 564 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990203/5a136449/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 3 13:29:54 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Spam In-Reply-To: <36B8725B.2B814075@rain.org> Message-ID: <199902040030.TAA28725@smtp.interlog.com> On 3 Feb 99 at 7:59, Marvin wrote: > Just curious if anyone else on this list is getting hit with a barrage of > badly done spam from overseas? > Nope. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 3 13:29:52 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive Message-ID: <199902040030.TAA28765@smtp.interlog.com> Hi Kevan. I hope you do not kill your archive.It is a thankless task and you deserve kudos for undertaking it. I for one appreciate your efforts greatly, and the alternative would result in increased mail as questions answered in earlier threads were reposted. I also would have to get a bigger hard drive for keepable posts which are numerous on this list. I don't think I have ever received spam related to this mail-list. I did get some mined from the CoCo list and classicmac list I believe but I unsubscribed to those a whle ago for other reasons. Spam is a fact of life for anyone using the net. I use an altered address for newsgroups however, which cut down considerably on the spam I was receiving, but I still get some via other activities. I suspect even Yahoo or Delphi lists etc., are not secure. Surely those who object to archiving could use an altered address. Aren't there also means such as deja news' "no archive" to achieve this ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Feb 3 18:37:02 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 03, 1999 07:26:33 PM Message-ID: <199902040037.RAA27349@calico.litterbox.com> > > > Important hint. Don't hold the PS button down. It overrides all the safeties > > in the ps - I'm something of an expert in ATX power supply meltdowns. I'm > > It does _what_?!!! > > The old mechanical circuit breakers were very cearefully designed so that > it was impossible to hold them closed. And every PSU control system I > have ever seen (electromechanical or electronic) has essentially the same > safeguard - the manual control can't override a safety trip. It's common > sense. Well, I fried two power supplies by getting the connector for my 3.5 inch drive off by one pin which apparently grounds the 12 volt circuit. If you hold the button down for more than about 3 seconds, the wire melts and you get a flash of light and copious quantities of smoke out of hte power supply. For reference, the fuse in my fried PS was intact. I had another one that stopped responding to the power-on switch, another that slowly began to emit a stench like burning diesel fuel. I HATE ATX. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Feb 3 18:43:41 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: apple2 fun Message-ID: <199902040043.RAA27396@calico.litterbox.com> Hi gang. Well, my father is safely transitioned to his iMac, so as soon as I get done sorting stuff out, I'll have an apple2GS with 4 megs of ram and a printer card, along with a monitor, 2 3.5 inch drives, and a 5.25 inch drive to sell. In a related note, I got my 2e running with a hard disk. It boots to Prodos so fast it doesn't bear mentioning... but it's been a long time since I used an 8 bit apple2, how do you transition from one .SYS image to another? I have a launcher that does the job on my GS in 2e mode, but my e doesn't appear to have enough ram to run it. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 3 19:16:55 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Adam parts In-Reply-To: <01be4fd0$56fbffa0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, PG Manney wrote: > Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial > source for them? > > What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? You'd probably get a recorded message saying the number you are calling is no longer in service. Unless they're still making leather products of course. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Wed Feb 3 19:16:18 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Adam parts In-Reply-To: <01be4fd0$56fbffa0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Message-ID: <000001be4fdb$f7e3b4c0$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> I am getting an Adam in a couple of weeks, and I think it has some software with it. Anything in particular or are you just looking for some software to test it out? Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of PG Manney > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 6:53 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Adam parts > > > Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial > source for them? > > What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? > > manney > > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 3 19:21:22 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: apple2 fun In-Reply-To: <199902040043.RAA27396@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > I used an 8 bit apple2, how do you transition from one .SYS image to > another? I have a launcher that does the job on my GS in 2e mode, but > my e doesn't appear to have enough ram to run it. Well, if you're in BASIC you can type the command BYE to go into a program launcher. Hoepfully you have something good like Bird's Better Bye installed so you don't have to type in the entire pathname when you're ready to restart. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From ai705 at osfn.org Wed Feb 3 19:34:54 1999 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Adam parts In-Reply-To: <01be4fd0$56fbffa0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, PG Manney wrote: > Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial > source for them? > > What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? > > manney > Try: Coleco Adam's House Supporting Colecovision & Classic Games & Computers http://www.flash.net/~coleco/main.htm I have had no dealings with them so I don't know if they are any good. Also be prepared to pay premium. -- Steve From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 19:35:44 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Why is having a lurker on the mailing list any different from having it > archived? Either way we have no control on who gets what we post. It's the difference between somebody overhearing your conversation (and possibly deciding to record it) and somebody automatically publishing your conversation and making it available to countless readers for who knows how many years. I like the idea of a "no archive" header, similar to the way Usenet (and DejaNews) handles this issue, but it doesn't bother me that much since 10 years from now when I'm President of the US, all of this nonsense I spew won't be traceable to me! -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 19:10:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 3, 99 06:10:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/32176184/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 19:16:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <199902040037.RAA27349@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Feb 3, 99 05:37:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1288 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/40452ec4/attachment.ksh From dogas at leading.net Wed Feb 3 19:44:29 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Adam parts Message-ID: <01be4fdf$e8007d00$e1c962cf@devlaptop> I've got a tonne of Adam cassette software... What are you looking for? - Mike: dogas@leading.net -----Original Message----- From: PG Manney To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:11 PM Subject: Adam parts >Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial >source for them? > >What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? > >manney > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 3 19:45:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 3, 99 08:35:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1373 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/ce17c3a2/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Feb 3 19:55:58 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: apple2 fun In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Feb 03, 1999 05:21:22 PM Message-ID: <199902040155.SAA27738@calico.litterbox.com> > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > I used an 8 bit apple2, how do you transition from one .SYS image to > > another? I have a launcher that does the job on my GS in 2e mode, but > > my e doesn't appear to have enough ram to run it. > > Well, if you're in BASIC you can type the command BYE to go into a program > launcher. Hoepfully you have something good like Bird's Better Bye > installed so you don't have to type in the entire pathname when you're > ready to restart. Aha! it seems the ramfast scsi card has something like bird's built in. Thanks. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 20:00:56 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > I like the idea of a "no archive" header, similar to the way Usenet (and > > DejaNews) handles this issue, but it doesn't bother me that much since 10 > > I like the classiccmp archive. If you want to hide it, then go ahead > (although IMHO hiding it won't be that successful, due to the fact that > anyone can join the list and thus discover where it is). But please keep > it active. Oh, I like the archive too. But I like the *individual* control something like a "no archive" header would give you. I didn't mean to suggest that the default should be "no archive". I agree it's a valuable service and I applaud Kevan, but I also sympathize with those who worry about slimey email address harvesting spammers, the possibility of retribution for unpopular views, and the general sense of surprise one has when finding an old "publication" quoted out of context 10 years after the fact. -- Doug From bsa3 at cornell.edu Wed Feb 3 20:23:29 1999 From: bsa3 at cornell.edu (Brad Ackerman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed In-Reply-To: <90ced324.36b81fe0@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. If only I'd known when I was planning my trip to CeBIT -- I could have flown out of Frankfurt instead of Berlin, and dropped by. Any retrocomputing facilities in Hannover or Berlin? Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home bsa3@cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them." http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998 From max82 at surfree.com Wed Feb 3 01:40:10 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <199902040037.RAA27349@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: >like burning diesel fuel. I HATE ATX. Actually, I find it to be one of the most hilarious pieces of poor engineering in modern computers. ATX machines can switch off without any good reason, refuse to turn on, refuse to boot, refuse to turn off, and other things. If M$ designed a PSU, this would be it. From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Feb 3 20:23:12 1999 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Anybody interested in PETs/ Anyone in Toronto Message-ID: <000301be4fe5$5054ea80$0100a8c0@chandrab.ne.mediaone.net> Looks like I'm buying a ton (7-8) of PETs + disk drives + printers. Only problem is that I was only looking for one. The terms of the deal are as-is, where-is. If you interested in a PET please let me know. Anybody in Toronto that could check the units out for me? Any idea on the best/cheapest way to ship to Boston, Mass? I'll post more detail when I get them. Thanks, Chandra From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 3 21:05:43 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory Message-ID: <199902040305.AA18185@world.std.com> >The disk is a 150Mb ESDI drive attached to a Webster WQESD ESDI >controller. The controller allows be to carve the drive into partitions >that look like separate RD52's. This nice little ability allowed me to >boot from the second partition. Unfortunatly I'd not been backing up to >another partition. Sounds like the Andromeda ESDC I have in my machine, with an ESDI disk... I have one disk partitioned as four RD54s... I have another partitioned as one large disk (still identified as an RD54, but at 680 MB) Anyway, its hard to diagnose directory problems from a distance... I'd need to see a dump of the first 68 blocks (0-67). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From manney at hmcltd.net Wed Feb 3 21:05:13 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Adam parts Message-ID: <01be4feb$2ee1a040$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Just sold an Adam, minus software. The customer wants software, now. Can you send a list of a few thangs you might have, plus prices? Do you have books? Thank you manney +AD4-I've got a tonne of Adam cassette software... What are you looking for? +AD4- +AD4-- Mike: dogas+AEA-leading.net +AD4- +AD4- +AD4------Original Message----- +AD4-From: PG Manney +ADw-manney+AEA-hmcltd.net+AD4- +AD4-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers +AD4APA-classiccmp+AEA-u.washington.edu+AD4- +AD4-Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 8:11 PM +AD4-Subject: Adam parts +AD4- +AD4- +AD4APg-Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial +AD4APg-source for them? +AD4APg- +AD4APg-What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? +AD4APg- +AD4APg-manney +AD4APg- +AD4APg- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4- From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 3 16:12:24 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990202235508.30773958@intellistar.net> References: <36B79977.EF3C556E@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <199902040312.WAA20602@smtp.interlog.com> On 2 Feb 99 at 23:55, Joe wrote: > At 06:33 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: > >Please consider making disk images (teledisk, nwdos diskimage, etc.) of > >these before parting with them; there are many many folks who can't find > >the o/s and they would surely like copies (including us) > > > >Michael Grigoni > >Cybertheque Museum > > I will if the PC will read these disks. The originals shouldn't be a > problem but some of the copies may be in Michtron's bastardized 80 track 10 > sector format. Is there any place that's keeping an archive of MS-DOS > stuff like Don does for the CPM stuff? > > Joe > If you have an Atari ST, I would suspect you could read the 80/10 disks using Fast-copy or Pro-copy. ST's can read write to PCs and the prgs. mentioned allowed changing track and sector sizes. Michtron was a major supplier of stuff for the ST. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 3 16:12:26 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter In-Reply-To: <0025670D.003C1D4A.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199902040312.WAA20620@smtp.interlog.com> On 3 Feb 99 at 11:02, Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > I picked up an IBM Displaywriter keyboard unit in a local thrift after > eyeing > > it for a couple of weeks and finally couldn't resist adding it to my > > living-space challenged collection. > > I remember seeing mention of it in an old 81 datamation mag and a 50s > > style picture of a dedicated secretary busy at work on one and other info > in > > possibly an old Byte. It was touted as being very popular to the point > that it > > was touted over the PC and that CP/M programs were being ported to it. > > I opened it up and it has only a small I/O board with a 15 pin connector > and > > takes it's power off that. It looks like an oversized C64. > > It obviously doesn't have enough electronics to be more than a keyboard > > terminal, but I don't recall seeing a box in the picture. I had > understood the > > displaywriter to be a stand alone machine. Did it have an additional box > or was > > it meant to connect to a CRT terminal hooked to a mainframe ? > > Displaywriter system generally consisted of the following boxes: > > System unit. PC-sized, half the case == power supply, other half == card > cage. Card cage contains system board with 8088 and other cards. > > Keyboard. The thing you've got > > Monitor. Very similar to IBM original (mono) PC monitor, I think > > Printer. Daisywheel, EBCDIC, current loop. > > Disk drives. Usually a dual 8" unit. Could be SSSD or DSDD iirc. > > > > At present it would seem to be about to join the 3270 monitor I have > (can't > > remember the model #) as interesting but unusable. > > Or could I get gadzillion bucks for it on e-pay ? Any info ? > > My advice is: keep it against such time someone needs it... > > Philip. > Thanks for the info Kevan S. and Phillip. If Rax's theory of old computer synchronicity holds true I have some more IBMs that are going to acquire me. Damn, space considerations will require that I vacate my bedroom. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 3 21:14:31 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: apple2 fun Message-ID: In a message dated 99-02-03 20:23:32 EST, you write: << Well, if you're in BASIC you can type the command BYE to go into a program launcher. Hoepfully you have something good like Bird's Better Bye installed so you don't have to type in the entire pathname when you're ready to restart. Sellam >> The BYE command sucks! i've never seen a more user unfriendly program in my life. it doesnt give a chance to browse any directories or disks. if you dont know the pathname you want to goto, it is useless. i always end up doing pr#6 anyway. any programmer that uses it obviously doesnt use the program. it's always more helpful just to be dropped to a basic prompt. From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Feb 3 18:32:08 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: SMPSU's, was Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: References: <199902040037.RAA27349@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990203183208.211f0632@earthlink.net> At 01:16 AM 2/4/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >I hate any badly-designed PSU. This includes : > I found one that I wasn't at all impressed with: the rectifier and 2 filter caps were not switched but connected to the AC mains at all times. There was a fuse. The "power" switch was a logic level to the regulator on the main's side. There were no IC's on the low voltage side besides an optocoupler feedback and the linear types for the 2 negative voltages. Haven't found the time yet to repair it. -Dave From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 3 21:36:58 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990203145051.50e77d78@ricochet.net> At 05:22 AM 1/29/99 +0000, you wrote: >> If I were you I'd invest in a good digital camera though. I use an >> Olympus D-220L and its fab. The pictures it takes are excellent. > >Hmm... All the consumer-grade digital cameras that I've seen have a >resolution that's noticeably worse than a good lens/film combination. And But if your intended destination is a web page, most consumer grade cameras are quite adequate. Screens are about 72dpi, my Sony Mavica FD-71 is 640x480 (or a little over 100dpi for a 4x6 photo). And I'll say that the Mavica is incredible with a 10x zoom and good resolution. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 3 21:37:11 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990203184542.3dc7f224@ricochet.net> At 10:51 PM 2/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >> Computer (Sharp) or the Model 100 (Kyocera). I'm not sure about the M200, >> but I suspect it might have been made by Kyocera as well. Uncle Roger >> knows more about all of the different Kyocera clones. >I didn't know about the Kyocera connection, however. Interesting.... Tandy may have *made* the m100; Kyocera *designed* it. I think Tandy redesigned it (tweaked it) into the 102; they probably did the design (based on the original Kyocera design) of the 200. FYI, there are 9 versions of Kyocera's design: Kyocera KC-85 TRS-80 Model 100 TRS-80 Model 102 (mostly the same as the 100, only lighter and cheaper) TRS-80 Model 200 (clamshell, with larger screen) NEC PC-8201 (Japanese version, with Katakana? charset in ROM) NEC PC-8201A (American version) NEC PC-8300 Olivetti M10 (American version) Olivetti M10 (Euro version) Not related, but possibly mistaken as such: TRS-80 Model 600 NEC PC-8401A "Starlet" NEC PC-8500 Olivetti M15 I don't know if Kyocera ever came out with anything after the KC85. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 21:49:31 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990203184542.3dc7f224@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Uncle Roger wrote: > Tandy may have *made* the m100; Kyocera *designed* it. I'm pretty sure Kyocera *made* it too. The FCC ID (if they had them back then) is a dead give away. > I think Tandy redesigned it (tweaked it) into the 102; Oh, Bill Gates takes credit for the redesign in the Smithsonian interview I posted an URL for recently. He says the 100 made too much noise in meetings, so they redesigned it with a quieter keyboard. Of course, the Covergent Technologies workSlate (1983) never had that problem, and had several innovative features not possessed by the Kyocera clones. (But it cost more, and you couldn't find it at Rat Shack.) -- Doug From max82 at surfree.com Wed Feb 3 02:54:53 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:56 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: >Of course, the Covergent Technologies workSlate (1983) never had that >problem, and had several innovative features not possessed by the Kyocera >clones. (But it cost more, and you couldn't find it at Rat Shack.) You know, I'm getting tired of classic computers. I hear about this great little computer, the tandy m100. It has all these nice features. And then I hear that it was a cheap clone for a _really_ good system...sigh. So, what _were_ these innovative features? From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Feb 3 21:51:14 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990203145051.50e77d78@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <000101be4ff1$9c93d800$33b0adce@5x86jk> The Sony is the same camera I purchased. I like using regular 3.5 diskettes to save my pictures to. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Uncle Roger > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:37 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: photographing olf computers/parts > > > At 05:22 AM 1/29/99 +0000, you wrote: > >> If I were you I'd invest in a good digital camera though. I use an > >> Olympus D-220L and its fab. The pictures it takes are excellent. > > > >Hmm... All the consumer-grade digital cameras that I've seen have a > >resolution that's noticeably worse than a good lens/film > combination. And > > But if your intended destination is a web page, most consumer > grade cameras > are quite adequate. Screens are about 72dpi, my Sony Mavica FD-71 is > 640x480 (or a little over 100dpi for a 4x6 photo). > > And I'll say that the Mavica is incredible with a 10x zoom and good > resolution. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Feb 3 22:07:01 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Adam parts In-Reply-To: from Sam Ismail at "Feb 3, 99 05:16:55 pm" Message-ID: <199902040407.XAA02673@crobin.home.org> > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, PG Manney wrote: > > > Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial > > source for them? > > > > What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? > > You'd probably get a recorded message saying the number you are calling is > no longer in service. Or you'd get a Hasbro office. I still remember when Hasbro bought Coleco. My first thought was that if anyone had ever written a "Transformers Meet the GoBots" script, it would have been a good time to dust it off. <<>> From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 22:14:37 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > You know, I'm getting tired of classic computers. I hear about this great > little computer, the tandy m100. It has all these nice features. And then > I hear that it was a cheap clone for a _really_ good system...sigh. > So, what _were_ these innovative features? Well, surely you know that there's little correlation between innovation and success. The Tandy Model 100 (and other Kyocera clones) was very similar to the Epson HX-20 which preceded it by two years, except that it had a bigger display (which is, of course, one of the most important attributes of a portable). But the workSlate was in another class. Take a look at Kai's workSlate page: http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/ConvergentTechnologiesWorkSlate.htm 16 line display, built-in speadsheet, "PDA" features, voice capabilities, and very cool looking. All in 1983. -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 00:17:24 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available In-Reply-To: <199902040312.WAA20602@smtp.interlog.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990202235508.30773958@intellistar.net> <36B79977.EF3C556E@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204001724.1da75cca@intellistar.net> At 10:12 PM 2/3/99 +0000, you wrote: >On 2 Feb 99 at 23:55, Joe wrote: > >> At 06:33 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >> >Please consider making disk images (teledisk, nwdos diskimage, etc.) of >> >these before parting with them; there are many many folks who can't find >> >the o/s and they would surely like copies (including us) >> > >> >Michael Grigoni >> >Cybertheque Museum >> >> I will if the PC will read these disks. The originals shouldn't be a >> problem but some of the copies may be in Michtron's bastardized 80 track 10 >> sector format. Is there any place that's keeping an archive of MS-DOS >> stuff like Don does for the CPM stuff? >> >> Joe >> > If you have an Atari ST, I would suspect you could read the 80/10 disks using >Fast-copy or Pro-copy. ST's can read write to PCs and the prgs. mentioned >allowed changing track and sector sizes. Michtron was a major supplier of stuff >for the ST. > > Larry, No, I don't have an Atari. I didn't know about the Michtron connection. Thanks for the info. Joe From bmahoney at sprint.ca Thu Feb 4 00:30:21 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Anybody interested in PETs/ Anyone in Toronto References: <000301be4fe5$5054ea80$0100a8c0@chandrab.ne.mediaone.net> Message-ID: <36B93E7D.D4C1EFE0@sprint.ca> Where in Toronto are they? I am in the east end, Scarborough, so if they are close I could take a look. Brian Mahoney Chandra Bajpai wrote: > > Looks like I'm buying a ton (7-8) of PETs + disk drives + printers. > Only problem is that I was only looking for one. > The terms of the deal are as-is, where-is. > If you interested in a PET please let me know. > > Anybody in Toronto that could check the units out for me? > Any idea on the best/cheapest way to ship to Boston, Mass? > > I'll post more detail when I get them. > > Thanks, > Chandra -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From KFergason at aol.com Wed Feb 3 22:20:07 1999 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Houston, TX classiccmp members -- briefly OT Message-ID: <7ae4ce08.36b91ff7@aol.com> This is a request to see if there are enough Houston people, (and enough interest), to have a gathering. Please reply to me, not the list. Basic idea is meet at a central location, perhaps a Bennigans, and just gab. Talk old computers, drink a few of your favorite. early to mid March, some Saturday afternoon, 2-3 hours at most. variations on this theme welcome. We now return you to your normally scheduled OT discussions. Thanks, Kelly KFergason@aol.com From amirault at epix.net Wed Feb 3 22:41:21 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) References: <0025670D.003D10C7.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <36B924F1.86701294@epix.net> Hi, Why not just go out and BUY a three phase converter? You know that such a thing does exist now. John Amirault Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > so don't get the idea that you can > > run it in your house or garage. > > My parents have 3-phase electricity at home, but I don't (yet). But I > think it's more common in the UK than in the US. (BTW my parents have a > 16th century farmhouse which they heat electrically during the winter. > Maximum load we've measured, 36kW.) > > I am told (I think it was Toy Duell first pointed it out to me) you can get > reasonable 3-phase using a largeish induction motor (say a mechanical > rating 2 or 3 times the electrical load you want to connect), without a > mechanical load: wiring one phase to ground, a second to line, and the > third to line through a capacitor for an approximate 60 degree phase shift. > The induction motor will also act as a generator, and produce enough emf to > tidy up the phase relationships and voltage imbalance. But be warned - you > will not have the right voltage, and one of the phases (rather than the > star point) will be at ground potential. A bank of three single-phase > isolating transformers should do the trick if either of these is critical > (a single autotransformer, upstream of the converter, will also work if > only voltage is critical.) > > Also be warned. I am confident that this works _in theory_ but I have > never tried it. > > Philip. From bsa3 at cornell.edu Wed Feb 3 22:54:35 1999 From: bsa3 at cornell.edu (Brad Ackerman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > Oh, I like the archive too. But I like the *individual* control something > like a "no archive" header would give you. I didn't mean to suggest that > the default should be "no archive". > > I agree it's a valuable service and I applaud Kevan, but I also sympathize > with those who worry about slimey email address harvesting spammers, the > possibility of retribution for unpopular views, and the general sense of > surprise one has when finding an old "publication" quoted out of context > 10 years after the fact. An electronic archive of this list would be an incredibly useful research tool for those trying to preserve old computers, given that lots of useful information would be contained therein. As for spammers, munging all email addresses in the archive would significantly decrease the threat. Finally, Murphy says that if you're going to be quoted out of context, it'll happen whether or not there's a public archive -- but if such an archive exists, it would be trivial to determine the context of any such quotes. I've done research in the Cornell archives before, so I've become rather accustomed to full archival. I get annoyed when records from 1890 have been destroyed, either maliciously or due to neglect, and I'd think that researchers will feel the same way a century from now -- wouldn't you, in their place? Brad Ackerman N1MNB "...faced with the men and women who bring home bsa3@cornell.edu the pork, voters almost always re-elect them." http://skaro.pair.com/ -- _The Economist_, 31 Oct 1998 From amirault at epix.net Wed Feb 3 23:06:34 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Adam parts References: <01be4fd0$56fbffa0$01bfbfbf@toshiba-115cs> Message-ID: <36B92ADA.A38950EA@epix.net> PG Manney, Yes. Email me @ amirault@epix.net Coleco probably would tell you to look in the Salvation Army Stores here in the United States. John Amirault PG Manney wrote: > Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial > source for them? > > What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? > > manney From amirault at epix.net Wed Feb 3 23:12:15 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: OT: ebay award on ebay References: Message-ID: <36B92C2F.CD803507@epix.net> Hi All, I wounder how many of these"BIDDERS" are buddies? Notice alot of zeros in the rating ( ). John Amirault Sam Ismail wrote: > Ok, if this is not the funniest online saga since the beginning of the web > I don't know what is. > > First of all, if you haven't checked out the auction, go now to: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayisapi.dll?viewitem&item=62692227 > > Also, be sure to read this article which puts the icing on this cake: > > http://www.rewired.com/cgi-bin/rewired_redirect.cgi?year=99&article=0125.html > > I can't wait to see how this all turns out. Amazingly, this thing is > already up to $5,100! That's only $1000 less than the Alto II. Seems > like we're collecting the wrong stuff. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 3 23:27:28 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Brad Ackerman wrote: > An electronic archive of this list would be an incredibly useful research > tool for those trying to preserve old computers, given that lots of useful > information would be contained therein. An archive of this list *is* a useful resource: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/ > As for spammers, munging all email addresses in the archive would > significantly decrease the threat. Sure, or just omit email addresses entirely. What will future researchers care about our email addresses? And what will future researchers care about this particular meta thread? The archive is a Good Thing. But it raises some issues: 1) It's mostly noise. Fix: use a search engine. 2) It has no search engine. Fix: index often with altavista. Better fix: add a local search engine *and* index with altavista. 3) Nobody new to the list knows it exists. Fix: add it to the FAQ and list intro. 4) Nobody new to the list knows their words are being archived and indexed. Fix: (3) above. Better fix: (3) + some user-controllable mechanism to keep your words out of the archive. 5) Spam, retribution, etc. Fix: omit or munge email addresses. 6) Nobody has time to do any of this stuff. Fix: find a cure for sleep. -- Doug From hansp at digiweb.com Wed Feb 3 23:22:54 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: FS/FT: HP Documentation References: Message-ID: <36B92EAE.8C76A51A@digiweb.com> Don Maslin wrote: > A Pocket Guide to the 2100 Computer 9/72 5951-4423 > (Contains sections titled) > 2100A Reference Manual > Assembler Reference Manual > Basic Control System Reference Manual > BASIC Language Reference Manual > > A Pocket Guide to Interfacing the HP 2100 Computer 3/73 5951-4498 > Introduction > Hardware Specifications > Multiplexing Methods > The DMA Option > Programming Considerations > Appendix > > Any interest? Offers? The interfacing book would be useful to me for my emulator work. I currently have no info on how the IO works in detail. Dunno what I could offer... Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From hansp at digiweb.com Wed Feb 3 23:24:14 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: HP 2100 Documentation References: Message-ID: <36B92EFE.291BDFD6@digiweb.com> Don Maslin wrote: > Wow! It's gone! Dammn the time zone difference, lookslike I will just have to stay up all night monitoring the mail ;-) Reagrds, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Feb 4 00:04:03 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Adam parts Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990203230402.006b58f8@cadvision.com> Hi. I have some ADAM software, but very few of the dreaded high-speed tape cassettes to duplicate it onto. If you can send me an ADAM cassette, I can dupe what I have - email me off-list if you're interested and I'll dredge through the storage closet and see what I've got. I frequently see the ADAM joysticks at the local thrifts; I can pick some up for you if you want - again, email me off-list. If you called Coleco, I'm sure their response would be either: "Sure, we've still got 20,000 unsold units in the warehouse" or "Send your computer, in it's original packing materials, to one of our convenient repair depots ... " Cheers, Mark. At 06:53 PM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have any ADAM joysticks and/or software? ...or any commercial >source for them? > >What to you suppose would happen if I called up Coleco? > >manney > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 4 00:08:03 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory In-Reply-To: <199902040305.AA18185@world.std.com> Message-ID: Megan Gentry wrote: >Anyway, its hard to diagnose directory problems from a distance... >I'd need to see a dump of the first 68 blocks (0-67). I don't think there is any more need too bother with this train of thought. Thanks to the tips that Jerome gave this morning on how to create that dump, I was able to inspect the first 20 or so blocks, and I think I can safely say that the disk is a lost cause. Blocks 0-?? are totally toasted. I don't know how I managed it, but apparently I did something that caused the SYSGEN to write to there last night, it's got a binary image where there should be a directory structure. Sounds like the next time I try something like that I'd best turn the LA75 on as a console printer first so I can analyze what I did wrong :^/ Thanks to your pointing out that the backup command is backup (Um, that was just a little to obvious) I'm now backing DU3: up, since I've got part of what was on DU2: on it. However, that still leaves me with a logical disk MACRO.DSK that I would like to recreate. With the directory toast, I guess that isn't easy. So..... Could someone check me on this and tell me if either of these makes sense. 1. backup/device du2: mu0: <- copy the device to TK50 2. read back the raw image on the VAX (not sure how to do this) OR 1. dump DU2: to a file from RSX-11M (not sure how, but have the manuals) 2. copy to VAX via DECnet 3. Copy to Linux Box via DECnet 4. Carve text out of disk image, thereby recovering the few Macro-11 files I care about. (what can I say, I'm a lot better at doing stuff under UNIX) Cool, the backup just completed, and I was able to restore a file from it, so I know that works now. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Feb 3 23:26:40 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory Message-ID: <000501be5008$8eee1280$bf281bce@l166> I thought you were using an 11/73. Just get into the console and type b mu0: to boot the tape if it is at 1774500. I am on the road right now but when I get back I could look up the CPU info and let you know the how to get into the console. My brain is dead right now - been up for 21 hours and just finished eating dinner. Dan > >I'm seriously bummed. However, I finally got smart and made a bootable >TK-50 so if need be I can load RT-11 without to much difficulty (other than >having to type in the bootstrap by hand). > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 4 01:02:54 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory In-Reply-To: <000501be5008$8eee1280$bf281bce@l166> Message-ID: >I thought you were using an 11/73. Just get into the console and type b >mu0: to boot the tape if it is at 1774500. I am on the road right now but >when I get back I could look up the CPU info and let you know the how to get >into the console. My brain is dead right now - been up for 21 hours and >just finished eating dinner. >Dan I am, but I built it myself. The key piece of hardware is the WQESD controller, it has the boot ROMs, and it supports MS:, not MU: Trust me, more than once I've wished this thing was using standard DEC boot ROMs. Initially I was booting by typing the DU: bootstrap in by hand so I could boot a RD52. The dual height OEM CPU doens't have a console built in. That requires the non-OEM version, which IIRC is quad-height. More than once I've been tempted to replace the /73 with a really beautiful /23+ board that I've got, which has a very nice console, and all the CPU upgrades. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 4 01:23:14 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: HP Docs sold -- thanks for your interest! In-Reply-To: <199902031844.KAA03572@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.5.32.19990203075831.0092f210@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990203232314.009598b0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Hello Frank, Eric, Sam, Stan, and the rest of the list, Thanks much for your interest. I replied to the responses (there were six counting yours -- I'm impressed!) in the order that I received them. All the manuals I referenced are now spoken for. FWIW, the HP Customer Support manual went to Jay West, and the 9825 books to Anthony Eros (he actually has a 9825 he needs docs on). Thanks again to you all for your interest. I will continue to keep an eye out for other 'classic' docs and goodies. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 05:17:23 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: (message from Max Eskin on Wed, 3 Feb 1999 02:40:10 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990204111723.6415.qmail@brouhaha.com> > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > I HATE ATX. Max Eskin wrote: > Actually, I find it to be one of the most hilarious pieces of poor > engineering in modern computers. ATX machines can switch off without any > good reason, refuse to turn on, refuse to boot, refuse to turn off, and > other things. If M$ designed a PSU, this would be it. I've read the ATX spec, and I can't find anything in it that requires this sort of flaky behavior, or even encourages it the slightest bit. What you are complaining about isn't the ATX standard, but the crappy implementations that typical motherboards and PSUs have. After 18 years of history of IBM PCs and clones, surely you don't expect the things to start being well-engineered? For my own part, I only use Tyan and Asus ATX motherboards, and ATX PSUs from PC Power & Cooling, and of the problems you describe, the only one I've experience is failure to turn off. I haven't attempted to determine the cause. My server machine has been running 24x7 for about 20 months with no unplanned outages except for two power failures that lasted more than 90 minutes. (My software is set to trigger a shutdown at 25% remaining UPS battery level, although I probably should increase the threshold to 75% to reduce the cycling of the gel-cells.) Even after the power outages it started up automatically with no problems. I suspect that all of these problems are due to poorly engineered PSUs, although it is quite possible that some of the fault lies with the motherboard. Poorly enginered PSUs certainly aren't a new phenomenon; the ATX standard has merely given them a few new ways to demonstrate their lack of quality. The PC P&C PSUs seem much better engineered than the dime-a-dozen PSUs that come in the cases. Of course they cost a lot more, but that's no surprise. It seems that in just about every type of product, the majority of consumers are willing to put up with inferior crap as long as it is cheap, so those of us that want quality are forced to pay a much higher price, even though if everyone demanded a quality product it would only increase the cost slightly. Sigh. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 05:21:13 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: SMPSU's, was Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990203183208.211f0632@earthlink.net> (message from Dave Dameron on Wed, 03 Feb 1999 18:32:08) References: <199902040037.RAA27349@calico.litterbox.com> <3.0.6.16.19990203183208.211f0632@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <19990204112113.6425.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Haven't found the time yet to repair it. Why bother? If the rest of the supply is designed that badly, the best repair is to throw it away. But first, please thoroughly destroy it so that someone doesn't fish it out of the trash and waste another person's time trying to fix it. I learned the hard way that when I discover a bad diskette, that it is insufficient to simply throw it away. I have to break it first, or some one will think they are being clever and/or frugal, fish it out, and eventually it will make its way back to me and I'll once again discover that it is bad. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu Feb 4 03:27:22 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) Message-ID: <0025670E.0038A829.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > My line is prepared for 40 kW 3 phases, since the former owner also > used electric heating (this kind of night loading heating), but since > I switched for gas, I can use anything for my computers :))) > >> Anyway, figure that we're stuck with 230 volt single phase (115 volts from >> either leg to earth) at our NA homes, while as I've seen for example >> normally in Southern Germany at least, 380 volt 3 ph (220 volts from either >> leg to earth) is the norm in most other modernized parts of the world. > > In facht it is 400V/230V since more than 10 to 15 years, but everybody > is still talking about 380V/220V ... And yes, 3 phases are the only kind > of connections the power companies offer - so the outlets will be split > up among the phases to get an even load (3 phases outlets are not very > common :). You must have changed voltage long before we did then - we went from 415/240 V to 400/230 only about 5 years ago. Like with you, people still talk about the old voltages, and my voltmeter still reads 248V... (BTW it used to be 240V +/- 6%. It is now 230V +10% -6%, so electricity companies haven't had to change anything.) A few rural installations are only given 2 phases of the 11kV distribution, rather than all 3. This means that a single phase transformer is used, rather than a 3-phase transformer (Yes, I know, in the US you often get poles with three single phase transformers hung off them). Usually this is 240V, but sometimes 480V centre earthed is used, the two sides supplying different houses. Apparently some farm machinery operates on 480V single phase, but I don't think much else does. Philip From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu Feb 4 03:18:10 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) Message-ID: <0025670E.0037A13B.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >>My parents have 3-phase electricity at home, but I don't (yet). But I >>think it's more common in the UK than in the US. (BTW my parents have a >>16th century farmhouse which they heat electrically during the winter. >>Maximum load we've measured, 36kW.) > > 36kW!! Ouch! And cost of electricity is, I understand, higher than in the > US, true? Except Jamestown, we pay only $0.03565 per KWH :-) so electric > heat is not such a financial killer for homeowners (or for nuts like me > with working big iron computers in the basement). Dual tarriff (?sp) is quite common. The most usual scheme is called "economy 7" which charges about 14c US per kWh during the day and somewhat less (I think it's less than 5c - sorry, I am not in the UK this week so I can't check) for a seven-hour period starting at midnight +/- one hour (exactly midnight on older installations). Some circuits - mainly heating - are controlled by the same timeswitch (older installations) or radio receiver (newer ones) as the tarriff selector on the meter. It is said that many night clubs use economy 7 tarriff despite no heating load... Other schemes exist. One called "heatwise" also gives you a couple of short periods of cheap power during the day... > Yes, very few private residences in North America have 3 ph power _unless_ > it was asked for and installed, of course at an extra co$t. If someone has > a garage or machine shop at home (and the local zoning laws permit it) then > 3 ph can be installed. Otherwise, bigger apartment buildings, larger > offices and factory buildings are usually wired for 3 ph at 240 volts or > 480 volts. Gosh. I've seen 3-phase 208 volts in the US, but what would they use 240 for? Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu Feb 4 03:52:56 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) Message-ID: <0025670E.00399524.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Eric has replied to my post with a lot of good points, but I don't understand this one: > After you do the D/A, you have a huge amount of sampling noise at Fs/2 (and > its harmonics). For a CD player, Fs is 44.1 KHz, so the sampling noise is at > 22.05 KHz. Since the desired audio frequency response extends to 20 KHz, a > non-oversampled player needs "brick wall" analog filters, with a pass band to > 20 KHz, and a stop band starting below 22.05 KHz. > > Digital oversampling is used to move the sampling noise to a higher > frequency. 4x oversampling moves it to 88.2 KHz. The oversampling filter > is a low-pass filter, so the audio content still has a frequency response > to somewhere above 20 KHz. But now your analog filter can have a much > shallower slope, which is easier to implement and introduces much less > phase distortion. > > Your analog oversampling scheme does not eliminate the noise at Fs/2, > and in fact introduces more sampling noise at higher frequencies. It does > not help reduce the requirements of the analog filter. Don't confuse sampling noise with quantisation noise. Quantisation noise is due to the replacement of an analogue value by a digital representation not exactly the same; it is reduced simply by having more bits of precision (there are other tricks, including things involving oversampling, but they only cloud the issue). Sampling noise is present in a sampled waveform whether it is a sequence of digital numbers or of analogue values. It arises from the deviation between the original waveform and the sampler output (with no filtration at all this is a series of steps) at the intermediate points between samples. Oversampling interpolates intermediate samples, and uses a filter to reduce the sampling noise due to not having known what those intermediate values should have been. While I admit that the linear interpolation I described is a rotten oversampling filter - it was only mentioned by way of an example - the mathematics are the same whether you use a digital computer to generate the digital numbers at your oversampled points or a switched analogue circuit such as I described to generate analogue values at the intermediate points. This analogue circuit can also (theoretically) reduce quantisation noise even compared with digital oversampling, since the intermediate values are not limited to the precision of the DAC. In practice, quantisation noise probably is probably slightly higher, since the intermediate values are limited to the precision of the resistor networks that derive them. So why does this sort of analogue filter not reduce the sampling noise at Fs/2? If it introduces noise at higher frequencies (which I agree it does), this is because the noise arises from conversion of samples to a continuous function, not from conversion of digital to analogue. > The logical extreme of oversampling is to use such a high factor that you only > need one bit of data. This is called a delta-sigma D/A converter. For 16-bit > source data this would require at least 65536x oversampling, but there are > some tricks to reduce this to e.g. 128x. This is the basis of the so-called > "1-bit" D/A converters. The advantage is that you only need a single-pole > analog filter (and in practice can get by without even that), and that the > tradeoff from quantization to time domain has been maximized, which is good > because it is much easier to get high precision in the time domain as > described above. I have met delta-sigma encoding, but I never managed to work out how you get the sampling rate down to a manageable value. Since we're getting a bit off topic here, could you post not an explanation but a reference to somewhere I can look up this particular aspect of the problem. Philip. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Feb 4 05:28:32 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-550 (Yuck!) software available References: <3.0.1.16.19990202180914.43dff90e@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19990202235508.30773958@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36B98460.FEABC707@bigfoot.com> Joe wrote: > I will if the PC will read these disks. The originals shouldn't be a > problem but some of the copies may be in Michtron's bastardized 80 track 10 > sector format. Is there any place that's keeping an archive of MS-DOS > stuff like Don does for the CPM stuff? It should, back in the days when DS-DOS was going away I was making copies on my 286 and sending them over BBS routes. Besides I believe a stock 360k drive can read them for booting on a Say-no. From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 4 05:28:56 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: S100 boards Message-ID: <000001be5031$8ceb4100$7b9dfea9@mycroft> >> Andrew Davie[SMTP:adavie@mad.scientist.com] writes: >> >> >S-100 George Morrow Disk Jockey 2D/B >> >> Hmm, 50 pins, could that possibly be a SASI card? >> As in Shugart Associates pre-SCSI bus >> > >No. It's sa1000 series 8" hard disk interface. > >Allison I've got 50 cents that says the DJ 2D/B is a floppy controller, not a hard drive controller! Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 05:33:20 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <36B924F1.86701294@epix.net> (message from John Amirault on Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:41:21 -0500) References: <0025670D.003D10C7.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> <36B924F1.86701294@epix.net> Message-ID: <19990204113320.6460.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Why not just go out and BUY a three phase converter? You know that such a > thing does exist now. As the person that started this thread, I can certainly explain why *I* don't buy one. The equipment I want to run will need about 45A per phase. If I had an 85% efficient converter, I'd need an 80A 240V circuit. The entire service entrance to my house is only 100A, and I use more than 20A of that for lighting alone, not to mention the microwave oven, audio and video gear, and modern computers. Normal US homes are not wired for big old computers and their peripherals. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 4 06:32:51 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: ATX: almost OT (Re: Need some O.T. help) In-Reply-To: References: <199902040037.RAA27349@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <199902041133.MAA18175@horus.mch.sni.de> > >like burning diesel fuel. I HATE ATX. > Actually, I find it to be one of the most hilarious pieces of poor > engineering in modern computers. ATX machines can switch off without any > good reason, refuse to turn on, refuse to boot, refuse to turn off, and > other things. If M$ designed a PSU, this would be it. Sounds like ranting about good old big iron. When they introduced the SVP (Service Processor) for /370ish SIEMENS mainframes there have been similar problems - Machines tuned off without reason, not able to turn on, etc. And since Big Iron is allways better there have been additional sources of fun: machines that went into debuging modes during normal work, machines that rebooted, machines that got incompatible microcode loaded ... endless source of fun. The SVP was a microprocessor system that replaced the old operation tables (for debugging) and the operator consoles, so standard serial terminals where used, and the good old single function buttons where replaced by cryptic commands (did anybody say McUnix ?). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 4 06:32:50 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: References: <199902031705.SAA09673@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199902041133.MAA18181@horus.mch.sni.de> > As the creator of the web archive I feel I should reply... > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > Me_Too(TM) don't feel comfortable with a _public_ archive of this > If other people are of the same opinion then I will take down the web > archives. I can always use the 170MB (and now growing at a rate of about > 12MB a month) of disk space they take at the moment. Instead of cluttering > the list send mail to me directly at kevan@heydon.org and I will count the > votes. What about puting the pages within a restricted area, and the password is supplied with the acknowledge message of the lists registration ? So it would be 'restricted' to people that have the list also (or at least had it at one time). So the privacy would be simmilar to the list itself. > > list. I considere this more privat - and for the pe(a)rls in here, > > I made up two archives (_on_my_hard_disk_) - one where every pice > > is stored, and one where I put the very genuine things. So I have > > any possible search option (fast and local) and privacy (i hope). > I also tend to keep post that I think will be usefull (which happens to be > most of Tony Duells posts) in a mail folder. I have also been keeping > entire threads with a thought to extracting the pearls of wisdom into web > pages. > It is much less work to archive the entire list than it is to manually > extract particular bits of information. It is also easy to let the major > search engines trawl the list archive to allow searching. What about set up your own search engine, just for the CC-pages ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 05:35:07 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: (message from Doug on Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:27:28 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990204113507.6473.qmail@brouhaha.com> Doug wrote: > Better fix: (3) + some user-controllable > mechanism to keep your words out of the archive. There already is such a mechanism. Any email that you don't send to the list won't get archived. > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Feb 4 06:07:28 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: FA: S-100 SBC-2650 CPU board In-Reply-To: <19990204113507.6473.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <001f01be5036$ef69d8a0$31f438cb@a.davie> For Auction: Signetics-2650 based CPU board for S-100 BUS. Full copy of manual, schematics and 2650 tech reference included. This board is the same as used by the wonderful S-100 machine on my Weird Computing Machines site (the one running a software emulator of 8080 so that it might run Microsoft BASIC :). Please visit the following URL for pics and info... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=63594364 No reserve, once again. A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? From Jgzabol at aol.com Thu Feb 4 06:36:16 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: German Retrocomp (was Re: 1130 has been claimed) Message-ID: <42793213.36b99440@aol.com> In einer eMail vom 04.02.99 03:23:05 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. If only I'd known when I was planning my trip to CeBIT -- I could have flown out of Frankfurt instead of Berlin, and dropped by. Any retrocomputing facilities in Hannover or Berlin? Brad Ackerman >> There is the Nixdorf Museums-Forum at Paderborn, which is not too far from Hannover, less than one hour southwest by car. They do not have any live equipment, but about one of everything not live. They begin somewhere with the Assyrians xxxx B.C. up to Cray-2 and connection machine; Nixdorf tube machines; Russian machines; mechanical calculators and telephone exchanges; and Jacquard loom, the ancestor of anything with punched holes. Address: Fuerstenallee 7, 33102 Paderborn Look at http://www.hnf.de for more details. I also recommend strongly the "Deutsches Technik-Museum" in Berlin. They have a small, but significant set of exhibits: - Replica of Zuse Z1 (1936), built by Zuse himself, mechanical computer, operational; - Zuse Z23, first transistorized computer by Zuse, I believe also operational. - several other less prominent computer exhibits - quite a selection on history of the electron tube and telecom Normally the machines are not operated. I understand that upon special request an appointment could be made, and a knowledgeable person would come in and operate the Z1 and/or Z23. Contact person is Hadwig Dorsch, details see http://www.dtmb.de A pity that Munich is too far out of your travels - the Deutsche Museum here also has quite a selection, but nothing live. Hope you will enjoy your trip John G. Zabolitzky From dogas at leading.net Thu Feb 4 06:37:58 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? Message-ID: <01be503b$324aad80$f4c962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Doug >But the workSlate was in another class. Take a look at Kai's workSlate >page: > >http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/ConvergentTechnologiesWorkSlate.htm Thanks for that info Doug, I picked a mint boxed WorkSlate up a few months ago at a fleamarket and haven't played with it much. I've got the doc set should anyone need any info. - Mike: dogas@leading.net From dogas at leading.net Thu Feb 4 06:48:25 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: TelePickup in Chicago Message-ID: <01be503c$a7bb91a0$f4c962cf@devlaptop> Hi, If anyone is in the Chicago area and wouldn't mind a (several heavy items: multiple TRS-80 16b and 6000HD systems) pickup and subsequent packing/shipping job expenses paid with maybe a system or two ( ;) ) thrown in for effort Please send email Thanks - Mike: dogas@leading.net From mbg at world.std.com Thu Feb 4 07:35:49 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: RT-11: ?DIR-F-Invalid directory Message-ID: <199902041335.AA08394@world.std.com> >I don't think there is any more need too bother with this train of >thought. Thanks to the tips that Jerome gave this morning on how to >create that dump, I was able to inspect the first 20 or so blocks, and I >think I can safely say that the disk is a lost cause. Blocks 0-?? are >totally toasted. I don't know how I managed it, but apparently I did >something that caused the SYSGEN to write to there last night, it's got a >binary image where there should be a directory structure. Sounds like >the next time I try something like that I'd best turn the LA75 on as a >console printer first so I can analyze what I did wrong :^/ It does sound like what I thought it was... But remember, the disk may not be a total loss... many, if not most, of the files are most likely still there (I'm expecting that sysgen simply overwrote the beginning of the disk with each of the .OBJs... so the amount of corruption would be no more than the largest .OBJ produced. So, later directory segments would be okay, and there would be sufficient info in them to recover those files. Earlier files would still exist, following the directory... remember, they are contiguous files, so if you find the start of one, you can get the whole file back. There used to be a utility someone wrote, ndump, which looked at the first n bytes of each block and reported on them... that way you could figure out at least where your ascii text/source files were... and RT provides commands which would allow you to grab just the blocks of the disk needed to get a file... It is possible, just procedural and time consuming... but if there is information which is important enough, it is worth it... >Thanks to your pointing out that the backup command is backup (Um, that >was just a little to obvious) I'm now backing DU3: up, since I've got >part of what was on DU2: on it. However, that still leaves me with a >logical disk MACRO.DSK that I would like to recreate. With the directory >toast, I guess that isn't easy. So..... If you can find the beginning and end of the file... you can probably restore it from the corrupted disk in its entirety... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 09:40:25 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: TelePickup in Chicago In-Reply-To: <01be503c$a7bb91a0$f4c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204094025.483f8bb6@intellistar.net> Mike, Since I'm in Florida I can't help with the pickup but I have an absoulute PILE of software and manuals for the 6000 HD including the service manual. Joe At 07:48 AM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > >If anyone is in the Chicago area and wouldn't mind a (several heavy items: >multiple TRS-80 16b and 6000HD systems) pickup and subsequent >packing/shipping job expenses paid with maybe a system or two ( ;) ) thrown >in for effort Please send email > >Thanks >- Mike: dogas@leading.net > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Feb 4 08:06:32 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <0025670E.0037A13B.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.1.19990204084938.00984910@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:18 AM 2/4/99 +0100, Philip.Belben@pgen.com said something like: >> >> 36kW!! Ouch! And cost of electricity is, I understand, higher than in the >> US, true? Except Jamestown, we pay only $0.03565 per KWH :-) so >electric >> heat is not such a financial killer for homeowners (or for nuts like me >> with working big iron computers in the basement). > >Dual tarriff (?sp) is quite common. The most usual scheme is called >"economy 7" which charges about 14c US per kWh during the day and somewhat >less (I think it's less than 5c - sorry, I am not in the UK this week so I >can't check) for a seven-hour period starting at midnight +/- one hour >(exactly midnight on older installations). Some circuits - mainly heating >- are controlled by the same timeswitch (older installations) or radio >receiver (newer ones) as the tarriff selector on the meter. In this electrical district the residential rate is the $0.03565 24/7. The Jamestown Board of Public Utilities generates some of the power (coal-fired steam) while the rest is hydropower bought from the Niagara Power Project up near the Falls. We pay them, IIRC, around $0.025 per KWH. BPU is a publicly owned, not-for-profit utility (taxpayers technically own it.) At summertime peak the BPU distributes approx 80 MW. OTOH, the two districts outside of BPU average $0.08 or $0.09 per KWH. They are private, for-profit utilities. > >It is said that many night clubs use economy 7 tarriff despite no heating >load... > >Other schemes exist. One called "heatwise" also gives you a couple of >short periods of cheap power during the day... Many other electrical districts around the US have dual tariff fees. Seems to be as many variations as there are separate utility companies :) > > >> Yes, very few private residences in North America have 3 ph power >_unless_ >> it was asked for and installed, of course at an extra co$t. If someone >has >> a garage or machine shop at home (and the local zoning laws permit it) >then >> 3 ph can be installed. Otherwise, bigger apartment buildings, larger >> offices and factory buildings are usually wired for 3 ph at 240 volts or >> 480 volts. > >Gosh. I've seen 3-phase 208 volts in the US, but what would they use 240 >for? Excuse the brain glitch Phil. I meant 208V 3ph. Normally 240V 1ph, center grounded, is wired to residential and small office users. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 4 08:06:41 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S Message-ID: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> I'm glad I got the first batch of docs for the 2100 stuff. But given that the second batch of HP docs which I did not get went so fast, I have to suspect there's some other 2100/21MX lurkers on the list :) One of these days I'll get around to cataloging all the HP docs/manuals/tapes, etc. that I have. At that point, copies are available to anyone here at no charge (except actual copying and shipping cost). Enjoy! Here's an HP2000 question for you all.... Looks like I'm coming into a FULL SOURCE code listing of the Time Shared BASIC (TSB) operating system for the 2000F variety. However, it is in printed format (about six LARGE three ring binders). Is there any better way rather than just keying in the source? I was thinking perhaps OCR, but I don't know how good my OCR program is (haven't used it yet). But even if that works, OCR mistakes would be very hard to find and certainly a tad annoying at compile time! Perhaps if anyone else here is interested in this, the binders could be split up and each person scan, ocr, and check their section? Just a thought... Jay West From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Feb 4 08:33:06 1999 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: WTB: ASR 33 manuals Message-ID: <1999Feb04.091400.1767.189010@smtp.itgonline.com> Does anybody have a set of manuals for the ASR 33 they'd like to sell? Marty@itgonline.com From ai705 at osfn.org Thu Feb 4 10:00:21 1999 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <19990204113320.6460.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Reason I'm posting this is that other list members may find themselves in similar straits. The situation is not necesarily as difficult as you might think it is. On 4 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > The equipment I want to run will need about 45A per phase. If I had > an 85% efficient converter, I'd need an 80A 240V circuit. The entire service > entrance to my house is only 100A, So upgrade the breaker box and the service entrance cable or wire-in-conduit. The rest of the house is going to stay the same. Get a box that uses the same brand of breakers that you currently use. Then you can add wiring, some of it surface if necessary, to key portions of the house. The electric company wire from your pole to your house can probably already carry the current. Most people do not realize that they use a "one size fits all" for the task. Plus it is a wire in free air and the rules about current capacity are far less stringent. You would be surprised at how small a wire can carry service entrance current from the pole to your house, when it is not enclosed in a jacket or tube. Of course, it is a little more complicated than that but still... > and I use more than 20A of that for Is that 2400KW or 4800? If you are only rating that at 120V, then you are only using 10% of your incoming power. > > Normal US homes are not wired for big old computers and their peripherals. > > So you can do it after the fact and leave the legacy of its strangeness for the next owner. Seriously, you also get another possibility by a 2x upgrade. You now have the ability to isolate machinery, appliances, kitchen gadgets, your tools on one 120V leg and put all the sensitive electronics on the other (plus balance everything else loadwise across the two). Think of it as less of a drag and more of a real opportunity. -- Steve From spc at armigeron.com Thu Feb 4 10:38:38 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: TelePickup in Chicago In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990204094025.483f8bb6@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 4, 99 09:40:25 am Message-ID: <199902041640.LAA08089@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 378 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/97932039/attachment.ksh From amirault at epix.net Thu Feb 4 15:22:10 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) Message-ID: <001a01be5084$6db90620$879f25d8@oemcomputer> Hi, OK. What you are saying is that you have a functionally obsolescent electric service that needs to be upgraded to a 200 amp service to better handle todays electric needs. I suggest that you contact your electric company and find out how much this upgrade will cost you. John Amirault -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 3:34 AM Subject: Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) >> Why not just go out and BUY a three phase converter? You know that such a >> thing does exist now. > >As the person that started this thread, I can certainly explain why *I* >don't buy one. > >The equipment I want to run will need about 45A per phase. If I had >an 85% efficient converter, I'd need an 80A 240V circuit. The entire service >entrance to my house is only 100A, and I use more than 20A of that for >lighting alone, not to mention the microwave oven, audio and video gear, >and modern computers. > >Normal US homes are not wired for big old computers and their peripherals. > > From hydros_by_hall at csi.com Thu Feb 4 12:48:54 1999 From: hydros_by_hall at csi.com (Richard A. Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: apple2 fun In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36b9eaf5.7696167@smtp.site1.csi.com> You need a newer version of Prodos. Around 1.8 or so the BYE command was much improved. However a program like Prosel works beautifully with a hard drive. On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:14:31 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 99-02-03 20:23:32 EST, you write: > ><< Well, if you're in BASIC you can type the command BYE to go into a program > launcher. Hoepfully you have something good like Bird's Better Bye > installed so you don't have to type in the entire pathname when you're > ready to restart. > > Sellam >> > >The BYE command sucks! i've never seen a more user unfriendly program in my >life. it doesnt give a chance to browse any directories or disks. if you dont >know the pathname you want to goto, it is useless. i always end up doing pr#6 >anyway. any programmer that uses it obviously doesnt use the program. it's >always more helpful just to be dropped to a basic prompt. Apple II educational software http://members.xoom.com/AV_Systems From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 15:17:42 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: New stuff: Televideo docs, Dapple computer and rack mount Apple II Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204151742.2f475758@intellistar.net> New stuff: I went scrounging yesterday. I bought stack of new Televideo manuals. I got: (book 1) Televideo TS 802H Computer System Installation and User's Guide with the quick reference guide, packing list, Digital Reserce lincense for CPM, errata sheets, customer quality survey, F1-40 print sample, a brochure from TRW about maintenance service and several addendum booklets. Looks pretty cool. Has anyone got one of these that they don't need? (book 2) Operator's Manual Model 950 (new in sealed package). (book 3) Televideo TS 800A, TS 802 and TS 802H Maintenance Manual. This is THE best maintenance manual I've ever seen! It not only includes the maintenance information and schematics but also spares kits inventory listings, complete parts lists and prices, parts specifications, board drawings, circuit descriptions and theory of operations, timing diagrams, etc. (book4) Televideo Model 925 CRT Terminal Installation and User's Guide. (book 5) Model 925 Maintenance Manual. If anything, this one is even more complete than the one for the 802! It even includes the original Rockwell Data sheets for the 6522 VIA, 6545-1 CRT controller, and a prelimiminary data sheet for the Intel 8048H/8048-1/8035HL/8035HL-1 8 bit microcomputer ICs. It also includes another copy of the CRT Terminal Installation and User's Guide, a Terminal Troubleshooting Guide and additional service bulletins and sales literature for the Televideo terminals. I also got several boxs of CPM disk but I haven't sorted them all out yet. I haven't found the Dapple computer that I spotted several weeks ago but I found another one!!! (At least this one is clean!) I'll give details when I've had a chance to look it over. I also bought an Apple IIc in a 19" rack mount! It operates a gas analyzer sytem and was put together in the UK. I haven't picked it up yet so details will have to wait. Joe Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 16:17:06 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Tandy 6000 HD was Re: TelePickup in Chicago In-Reply-To: <199902041640.LAA08089@armigeron.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990204094025.483f8bb6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204161706.2fff63b0@intellistar.net> At 11:38 AM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >It was thus said that the Great Joe once stated: >> >> Mike, >> >> Since I'm in Florida I can't help with the pickup but I have an absoulute >> PILE of software and manuals for the 6000 HD including the service manual. > > Uh, where in Florida, and are you looking to part with the software and >manuals? I have two T6ks myself. > I'm in Orlando. I also have two 6000HDs, one is stock, the other is heavily modified with 4 floppy drives and two hard drives and a lot more memory than what's supposed to be in them. Needless to say it's not in it's original case. I can't tell you what all in in the software but I have several LARGE boxs of disks and a shelf about 5" long filled with manuals. I know there are a bunch of different versions of the OS and a number of disks with OS patchs. There is also Cobol, and I think Fortran, BASIC and maybe a couple of other languages for the 6000. Also a number of application programs. I think the previous owner bought every software upgrade and nearly every program that there was for the 6000. I've been intending to get the 6000s out and play with them and inventory the stuff but I don't think I'll ever have the time. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 17:00:39 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Are there any Telex fans out there? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204170039.2f4753cc@intellistar.net> I got a bunch of old disks yesterday. So far I've found some in the CPM 86 format for the PC, Telex CPM format, CPM for the Osbourne 1, 8" soft sectored disks for unknown system and one hard sectored 8" floppy. It looks like many of them came from Telex's office in North Carolina. Many of them look like reports of test on different models of equipment, equipment specifications, etc. A couple look like they have ROM code and different revisions of system software. I need some one that's familar with Telex's products that can tell me what some of these things are. Joe From drbilling at ucdavis.edu Thu Feb 4 15:06:07 1999 From: drbilling at ucdavis.edu (Dean Billing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: Meta-4 manuals Message-ID: <199902042106.NAA12101@pop2.ucdavis.edu> Sorry, I don't have any way of putting the two manuals on-line and they are in storage as I am in the process of moving. > ... >Any chance of putting these on-line or of us getting a copy? The Meta-4 >sounds like an interesting machine. > >Who on this list can honestly say that they have never thrown out >anything that they now regret? --Dean From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Feb 4 13:00:49 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: 3-phase In-Reply-To: <0025670E.0037A13B.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990204130049.1fbf58ac@earthlink.net> At 10:18 AM 2/4/99 +0100, Philip wrote: > >> Yes, very few private residences in North America have 3 ph power >_unless_ >> it was asked for and installed, of course at an extra co$t. If someone >has >> a garage or machine shop at home (and the local zoning laws permit it) >then >> 3 ph can be installed. Otherwise, bigger apartment buildings, larger >> offices and factory buildings are usually wired for 3 ph at 240 volts or >> 480 volts. > >Gosh. I've seen 3-phase 208 volts in the US, but what would they use 240 >for? > >Philip. > I think 240 (meaning 220 to 240 volts) and 480 3 phase are for larger services, i.e. motors. The 208 comes when you want 120 volts, and 3 phases of 120 volts connected in "Wye" has 208 volts between the phases. With 480 volts 3 phase "Wye" between the phases, one gets 277 volts from each phase to neutral. 277 Volt (single phase of course) lights are seen in many industrial settings. -Dave From hansp at digiweb.com Thu Feb 4 15:14:07 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:57 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S References: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <36BA0D9F.770FA3FE@digiweb.com> Jay West wrote: > I'm glad I got the first batch of docs for the 2100 stuff. But given that > the second batch of HP docs which I did not get went so fast, I have to > suspect there's some other 2100/21MX lurkers on the list :) One of these > days I'll get around to cataloging all the HP docs/manuals/tapes, etc. that > I have. At that point, copies are available to anyone here at no charge > (except actual copying and shipping cost). Enjoy! So what are you waiting on, get on with cataloguing ;-) > Here's an HP2000 question for you all.... Looks like I'm coming into a FULL > SOURCE code listing of the Time Shared BASIC (TSB) operating system for the > 2000F variety. However, it is in printed format (about six LARGE three ring > binders). Is there any better way rather than just keying in the source? I > was thinking perhaps OCR, but I don't know how good my OCR program is > (haven't used it yet). But even if that works, OCR mistakes would be very > hard to find and certainly a tad annoying at compile time! > > Perhaps if anyone else here is interested in this, the binders could be > split up and each person scan, ocr, and check their section? Just a > thought... I have a similar problem with some code I received as GIF images. The listings I received had the binary object code included so it is possible to check the object code against the source to verify cross check accuracy. Needs some programming but that should be fairly easy. I'd be happy to volunteer for such a project in exchange for the full source and perhaps some more 2100 documentation. Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 4 15:17:50 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990203133049.0097ce50@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > > Kevin, isn't there a way to completely hide this archive from any search > engine? I'm no web weenie so others here who are should jump in and answer. Yes there is by putting an exclusion clause into the /robots.txt The problem is that the email address trawling programs probably ignore this sort of information. > I'll send you a vote privately but I do want to say the archive is a very > important resource (flame wars and very off topic junk excepted of course). > I think nearly all of us feel access to it is needed no matter where it is > kept. The U. of Washington archive site is not available since haliotis is > shut down. You can still get at the raw monthly mail logs from the listproc by sending it an index message. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 4 15:19:32 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > I'm un happy with public archives as they tend to get address farmed and > as is I'm getting too much junk mail that suggests a data farming from at > elast one other list I'm now inactive(read only) in. So maybe the solution here is to filter out all the email addresses. I think mhonarc can do this. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 4 15:26:20 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > Why is having a lurker on the mailing list any different from having it > archived? Either way we have no control on who gets what we post. > This is a very valid point. I am sure that the spam people will have already thought of this as a way to get valid email addresses. It was often the case that once subscribed to an email list you could request a list of all the subscribers. Now this is very rare and the subscription list is blocked to everybody, but it is not a lot of work ( a few line python/perl script) to extract addresses from messages and then discard the body of the message. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 4 15:29:41 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > > I agree it's a valuable service and I applaud Kevan, but I also sympathize > with those who worry about slimey email address harvesting spammers, the Some of the stupid ones actually advertise themselves via the browser header and thus you can filter them out in the web server. Obviously the clever ones just look like Netscape or IE. It has to be said that I haven't got any of the stupid hervesters filtered out because I don't think it will do any long term good. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 17:36:43 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S In-Reply-To: <36BA0D9F.770FA3FE@digiweb.com> References: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204173643.5e5f49c0@intellistar.net> At 10:14 PM 2/4/99 +0100, you wrote: >Jay West wrote: > >> I'm glad I got the first batch of docs for the 2100 stuff. But given that >> the second batch of HP docs which I did not get went so fast, I have to >> suspect there's some other 2100/21MX lurkers on the list :) One of these >> days I'll get around to cataloging all the HP docs/manuals/tapes, etc. that >> I have. At that point, copies are available to anyone here at no charge >> (except actual copying and shipping cost). Enjoy! Jay, I'm sending you my list of HP 9000 books via private E-mail so now you HAVE to catalog your stuff and post the list. Joe From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 4 15:36:55 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > > Sure, or just omit email addresses entirely. What will future researchers > care about our email addresses? If this would satisfy people then it can be done. > 1) It's mostly noise. Fix: use a search engine. From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 4 15:39:24 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: <199902041133.MAA18181@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > What about puting the pages within a restricted area, and the > password is supplied with the acknowledge message of the lists > registration ? So it would be 'restricted' to people that have > the list also (or at least had it at one time). So the privacy > would be simmilar to the list itself. This can easily be done. > What about set up your own search engine, just for the CC-pages ? As I have said in a previous post, the machine it runs on would not be able to cope with a local search engine on it. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 15:45:58 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: tube CD player (was Re: sizes (was Re: vacuum tube computer)) In-Reply-To: <0025670E.00399524.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) References: <0025670E.00399524.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <19990204214558.10214.qmail@brouhaha.com> Philip asks about his analog oversampling filter: > So why does this sort of analogue filter not reduce the sampling noise at > Fs/2? Because it is effectively a lowpass filter with a passband extending to Fs/2. It may attenuate the signal at Fs/2 slightly, but not enough to be useful. The sampling noise needs to be attenuated by at least 60 dB for something that would be marginally acceptable as a cheap consumer CD player, and well over 100 dB for audiophile equipment. I'll confess that I'm NOT an expert on this stuff, and it's been over ten years since I did any serious study of it, so it is possible that I'm mistaken. I don't currently have time to set up a simulation to test the hypothesis. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 4 17:50:28 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: MORE!!! FS/FT: HP Documentation Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990204175028.3bef295e@intellistar.net> OK I'll join in. Here's my offering: HP 1000 Computers, Hardware Data. 8 1/2 x 11" size, date 5/79. This list ALL the hardware specifications and options for the 2100 M, E, and F series machines. Also all the specs for the memory systems, mainframe plug-ins, Firmware products, microprogramming accessories, Power fail recovery systems, input/output and memory extenders, I/O interfaces, environmental specifications and prodduct support information and finally the complete power specifications and applicability summary. Only VERY interesting trades considered! JOe From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 15:58:33 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S In-Reply-To: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> (jlwest@tseinc.com) References: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <19990204215833.10285.qmail@brouhaha.com> > However, it is in printed format (about six LARGE three ring > binders). Is there any better way rather than just keying in the source? I tried OCR'ing some of the HP-41 microcode listings that were released through the PPC club many years ago. Some were dot-matrix, and some were impact printed, but none of it OCR'd very well. I ended up typing in all 500-plus pages of it by hand. I'm a reasonably fast and accurate typist, so it didn't take me too long. On the one hand, it was somewhat tedious, but on the other hand I learned much more about the inner workings of the 41 than I ever would have otherwise. Overall I thought it was fun even though it was somewhat tedious. Maybe OCR has gotten better since then. I used to use Adobe Acrobat 3.01's "capture" OCR module. I now have Caere OmniPage Pro 8.0 (and they announced 9.0 just a few weeks after I bought it, damn!), and Xerox TextBridge Pro. I haven't tried to OCR those old listings again; maybe I should do so for comparison purposes. If OCR isn't up to it, I'd be willing to do some typing of TSB listings. Even if the OCR does work, it is easier to merge two files, one OCR'd and one typed, than to proofread either, and the result will likely be more accurate. Another idea would be to run the scanned images through two or even three different OCR programs, and compare their output. Did you get the listings of the I/O processor? Cheers, Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:14:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 3, 99 02:40:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 871 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/843de10a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:20:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 3, 99 03:54:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 929 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/fe283407/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:23:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: SMPSU's, was Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990203183208.211f0632@earthlink.net> from "Dave Dameron" at Feb 3, 99 06:32:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1009 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/59faa710/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:28:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990203145051.50e77d78@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Feb 3, 99 09:36:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 748 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/2079c8c3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:32:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 3, 99 11:14:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/39e48276/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:33:44 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <36B924F1.86701294@epix.net> from "John Amirault" at Feb 3, 99 11:41:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 262 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/4fe51b72/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:38:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <19990204113320.6460.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 4, 99 11:33:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 493 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/57035338/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 15:42:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S In-Reply-To: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 4, 99 08:06:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990204/a89f6049/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 4 16:54:31 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Automatic power switches are nothing new. The odd-numbered PERQs (1, 1a, > 3a) all had software-controlled turn-off. So does the Whitechapel MG1 and > the Torch XXX. And the Apple Lisa. And it too has problems sometimes not allowing you to power down (you must either unplugged the system or trip one of the two microswitches that sense whether you opened the front bezel or back access panel). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Feb 4 16:56:16 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > There were 2 other important differences IMHO. Firstly the M100 keyboard > was a lot easier to type on than the HX20 keyboard. I would not want to > type much on the latter. Last night, I whipped out my workSlate. The keyboard sucks! It's just as noisy as the model 100's keyboard, but those weird round keys make touch-typing impossible. On the good side, the workSlate fits nicely on my flatbed scanner: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/convergent/ws.jpg > Yes, you could get text editor ROMs for the HX20. But you couldn't buy an > HX20 and start using it to enter text in the field. That, IMHO, is why > the M100 was more successful. And you could buy the M100 at just about any Radio Shack. I never said the M100 was a bad machine -- it's the "little things" that make a difference, but it wasn't a trail blazer either. The HX20 wins in terms of "firstness", the workSlate wins in terms of innovative features and coolness, but the M100 wins in terms of usability and market share. -- Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 4 16:58:34 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > There were 2 other important differences IMHO. Firstly the M100 keyboard > was a lot easier to type on than the HX20 keyboard. I would not want to > type much on the latter. Really? The HX-20 keyboard was almost the same as the M100's. It has a full layout, with normal sized keys. Are you sure you aren't thinking of something other than the HX-20? > Also, the M100 had a text editor built in. Sure it was simple. But it > worked. The HX20 had BASIC and a machine code monitor only. The hacker in > me wants the machine code monitor. But the user in me wants to be able to > enter text. And most people are just users. Well, you could get the SkyWriter ROM (one of mine has one installed). > Yes, you could get text editor ROMs for the HX20. But you couldn't buy an > HX20 and start using it to enter text in the field. That, IMHO, is why > the M100 was more successful. True dat. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 4 17:17:20 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S Message-ID: <017b01be5094$83abaa40$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> So - you're sure you don't want to just give that machine up? ... Just out of curiosity, what modem of disk drive is it? I'll have some docs somewhere for that stuff soon enough. I know I already have all the docs on the tape reader... Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 4:50 PM Subject: Re: HP TSB, Docs and O/S >> >> I'm glad I got the first batch of docs for the 2100 stuff. But given that >> the second batch of HP docs which I did not get went so fast, I have to >> suspect there's some other 2100/21MX lurkers on the list :) One of these > >I have a 2100 CPU + paper tape reader + disk drive. The latter takes >RK05-like packs, and is in very poor condition. The whole lot was rescued >just before it became scrap metal... > >Alas I have no docs, and I think I'm going to need a schematic of the >board in the CPU box before I can do much. I have all the CPU boards (but >not the WCS option), 4 sets of core memory (missing one top connector) >and a lot of I/O boards. > >It is very much a 'to be done one day' project. Yes I am glad I rescued >it, but until I get some more info it's going to be sitting in my machine >room... > >-tony > > From jpero at cgocable.net Thu Feb 4 17:41:11 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: References: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 3, 99 02:40:10 am Message-ID: <199902042338.SAA02088@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:14:05 +0000 (GMT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Need some O.T. help > > > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > > >like burning diesel fuel. I HATE ATX. > > > > Actually, I find it to be one of the most hilarious pieces of poor > > engineering in modern computers. ATX machines can switch off without any > > good reason, refuse to turn on, refuse to boot, refuse to turn off, and > > other things. If M$ designed a PSU, this would be it. > > Automatic power switches are nothing new. The odd-numbered PERQs (1, 1a, > 3a) all had software-controlled turn-off. So does the Whitechapel MG1 and > the Torch XXX. > > It can make a lot of sense on a unix box to have a software-controlled > power-down _provided the OS is stable_. The user command to turn off can > then sync the filesystem and then power off the machine. > > Of course with the typical reliability of PC hardware and certain PC > software, I am not sure ATX is a good thing... Tony is right on everything. What makes a reliable machine is 90% preparations and selections of quality stuff, don't have to rob the bank, sheesh! And 10% is correct choices on what software to load onto that HD. I think someone is selling yours too many junk stuff. Oh, Biostar is junk, Sorry. I have already dealt with Biostar and PcMate, Yecch! If someone claims DIMM is PC100, it may not be and just saying the speed of the chip like. 10ns is not it. Must be just PC100 with all the strings attached (reqirements as documented by intel/micron). 1st choices on boards: Asus 1st choice, Microstar (MSI) middling, Aceropoen distrant last. I have no problems shutting down or aborting, (holding the power button til it turns off), the power if I forgot to do something inside or adjust something. BTW mine is P2B, PII 350 PC100 64mb, G200. I now don't remember netscape 3.01 gold crashing or blue screens or any software that cause problems. Oh, aceropen ATX PSU in HX95 case. That PSU in it have very decent big heatsinks. :-) ATX PSU's blowing up is also are junk. I have shorted out many good PSUs and they survived it. (LM339/TI494 design with dual choppers via base trigger isotransformer) I have blown just once a cheapie PSU by hitting that power swtich one too many in close off/on times. on / off / on / off / on pop! While fixing LED's status in a machine. Those I just said about good PSUs they survive that abuse perfectly which this is required when I'm repairing boards on bench. I haven't cracked open both junk and decent ATX PSU's yet. Have anyone got one cheapie atx PSU that are broken to send to me for analysis? Jason D. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 18:41:00 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990205004100.11310.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > In which case, _no_ converter, electronic or rotary, or any other hack, > will help you. Yes. As you'll recall, that was exactly my point. > You can't get power from nowhere :-) There seems to be some controversy amongst physicists about this. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 18:52:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S In-Reply-To: <017b01be5094$83abaa40$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 4, 99 05:17:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 900 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/2764ceef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 4 18:48:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Feb 4, 99 02:58:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 824 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/6733be0e/attachment.ksh From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Feb 4 19:45:40 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990204184538.006bbc80@cadvision.com> At 02:54 PM 2/4/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > >> Automatic power switches are nothing new. The odd-numbered PERQs (1, 1a, >> 3a) all had software-controlled turn-off. So does the Whitechapel MG1 and >> the Torch XXX. > >And the Apple Lisa. And it too has problems sometimes not allowing you to >power down (you must either unplugged the system or trip one of the two >microswitches that sense whether you opened the front bezel or back access >panel). And the NeXT Cubes. I've never had a problem with the machine hanging when you want to power down. I have however had some involuntary shut downs when the !@#$%^& laser printer comes on to warm up, and blows the breaker on that circuit. :v) Mark > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > > From elvey at hal.com Thu Feb 4 19:52:47 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <19990205004100.11310.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> Eric Smith wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > In which case, _no_ converter, electronic or rotary, or any other hack, > > will help you. > > Yes. As you'll recall, that was exactly my point. > > > You can't get power from nowhere :-) > > There seems to be some controversy amongst physicists about this. There seems to be controversy between the physicists and the charlatans. I don't think the physicists have any problem here. Dwight From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Feb 4 19:53:36 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: OT - Declaser 1152 Message-ID: <199902050153.SAA00166@calico.litterbox.com> Okay, it's not quite a classic since it's only 7 years old, but does anyone know whether the simms inside a declaser 1152 are standard 30 pin mac simms or if they're something wierd? I desperately need to upgrade my old declaser - it keeps running out of ram printing things and Kinkos wants $.49 US per page to print things to their very fast and powerful IBM printer. Alternately does anyone out there happen to have the 2 meg expansion (part number LN07X-UF) for the thing? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 4 20:31:55 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:52:47 -0800 (PST)) References: <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990205023155.11891.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dwight wrote: > There seems to be controversy between the physicists and > the charlatans. I don't think the physicists have any problem > here. There are at least a few legitimate physicists that think that it may be possible to tap the zero-point energy (which comes from nowhere). Remember that not that long ago most physicists didn't believe that it was possible for a black hole to emit radiation, but now most of them accept it. The ideas for how zero-point energy might be tapped are similar. The books get balanced by a corresponding loss of energy elsewhere (or perhaps elsewhen). As far as I know, no one has yet proven that you *can't* borrow some of the zero-point energy. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Thu Feb 4 20:47:33 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: S100 boards In-Reply-To: <000001be5031$8ceb4100$7b9dfea9@mycroft> Message-ID: <4.1.19990205134635.0095b820@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 06:28 AM 04-02-99 -0500, Bob Stek wrote: >I've got 50 cents that says the DJ 2D/B is a floppy controller, not a hard >drive controller! I'll increase the bid to 2 Euros :-) My rusty memory reckons that it's a floppy controller too... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 4 21:57:12 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: S100 boards Message-ID: <19990205041208706.AAA192@fuj04> I don't know that this will settle anything for anyone, but I saw an old ad for the DJ2 just a day or so ago in an old mag and it certainly didn't have any HDD port. It was an FDC. I have a board from Industrial Microsystems which has a SASI port on it. I even have an old 8" HDD which should talk to it. I've never tried them, though. Dick ---------- > From: Huw Davies > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: S100 boards > Date: Thursday, February 04, 1999 7:47 PM > > At 06:28 AM 04-02-99 -0500, Bob Stek wrote: > > >I've got 50 cents that says the DJ 2D/B is a floppy controller, not a hard > >drive controller! > > I'll increase the bid to 2 Euros :-) My rusty memory reckons that it's a > floppy controller too... > > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au > Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 > La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the > Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Feb 4 22:23:55 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don't forget that the Apple Lisa had software poweroff as well. ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > > >like burning diesel fuel. I HATE ATX. > > > > Actually, I find it to be one of the most hilarious pieces of poor > > engineering in modern computers. ATX machines can switch off without any > > good reason, refuse to turn on, refuse to boot, refuse to turn off, and > > other things. If M$ designed a PSU, this would be it. > > Automatic power switches are nothing new. The odd-numbered PERQs (1, 1a, > 3a) all had software-controlled turn-off. So does the Whitechapel MG1 and > the Torch XXX. > > It can make a lot of sense on a unix box to have a software-controlled > power-down _provided the OS is stable_. The user command to turn off can > then sync the filesystem and then power off the machine. > > Of course with the typical reliability of PC hardware and certain PC > software, I am not sure ATX is a good thing... > > > > > > > -tony > > From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 4 22:54:52 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <19990205004100.11310.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 5 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > In which case, _no_ converter, electronic or rotary, or any other hack, > > will help you. > > Yes. As you'll recall, that was exactly my point. > > > You can't get power from nowhere :-) > > There seems to be some controversy amongst physicists about this. You'll note that they're all getting their power from their local electric companies. "Vacuum energy" is a fine concept that may someday power interstellar spacecraft (but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it), it doesn't work down here in the Well. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 5 00:47:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <19990205023155.11891.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 5 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > Remember that not that long ago most physicists didn't believe that > it was possible for a black hole to emit radiation, but now most > of them accept it. The ideas for how zero-point energy might > be tapped are similar. The books get balanced by a corresponding > loss of energy elsewhere (or perhaps elsewhen). Yeah, probably from the airplane on that trans-Atlantic flight you're on. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From emu at ecubics.com Fri Feb 5 07:50:29 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: DECStuff FS or trade Message-ID: <19990205135058.AAA10658@1Cust40.tnt22.dfw5.da.uu.net> Hi Bruce, ---------- > From: Bruce Lane > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: DECStuff FS or trade > Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 1:20 PM > PDP-11/23+ with the floating point option. Used to live at Fluke Corp., and drive a laser trimmer for printed resistor arrays. Was working when pulled, so it should be OK. You still have this one ? Which one ist it anyway, quad or double ? I got some MS650 boards here ;-)) cheers, emanuel From dgm+ at pitt.edu Fri Feb 5 07:51:13 1999 From: dgm+ at pitt.edu (David G Mcmurtrie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 stuff wanted Message-ID: I'm specifically looking for a power supply for a Commodore 64, but I'd also like to pick up some old documentation, too. In particular, I used to have the "Programmer`s Reference Manual" and a book that mapped all of the memory locations and described the kernel routines in detail. Any info would be appreciated. I'm in the Pittsburgh, Pa area. Dave McMurtrie From erd at infinet.com Fri Feb 5 08:14:22 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 4, 99 09:28:17 pm Message-ID: <199902051414.JAA01908@user2.infinet.com> > > > are quite adequate. Screens are about 72dpi, my Sony Mavica FD-71 is > > 640x480 (or a little over 100dpi for a 4x6 photo). To keep a little on topic discussion alive here, the Mavica is nice because it outputs standard files (JPEGs) on a medium that is legible to many classic computers, the 1.44Mb DOS-formatted floppy. I won't buy one solely for the the reason that I go where the cold would roach the drive and/or disks. I'll stick to FlashROM storage. > Digital cameras are not cheap enough to be worth buying just to stick > pictures on the web. For the same cost I could probably get a second-hand > 'classic' camera, and have a lot of fun restoring it, and then take some > real pictures. I have been seeing 640x480 cameras for $99 for quite some time. Compare this with my $79 Connectix Color QuickCam (that needs a nearby computer). Yes, a used fixed-lens camera is much under that, and an older SLR can be gotten with that (but not a good lens!), but convenience has its value, too. > Also those digital cameras are too darn small. I don't fancy having to > fix the thing... Beyond simple things, I wouldn't imagine that one would _want_ to fix a modern digital camera. I have enough problems with laptops. The parts for a 2-year- old camera are undoubtably more expensive than a new camera of the same resolution. I'm personally waiting for my next overseas job to justify buying a Kodak DC260. I have used the DC40, DC50, DC120 and DC420. The DC260 has all the features I could hope for in a $700 camera. The only better ones I have used were multiple thousands. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 5 09:58:12 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: References: <19990205023155.11891.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902051459.PAA13402@horus.mch.sni.de> > > Remember that not that long ago most physicists didn't believe that > > it was possible for a black hole to emit radiation, but now most > > of them accept it. The ideas for how zero-point energy might > > be tapped are similar. The books get balanced by a corresponding > > loss of energy elsewhere (or perhaps elsewhen). > Yeah, probably from the airplane on that trans-Atlantic flight you're on. Oh yeah - I know - his happens at least once every year when I buy tickets for a US flight, and have to notice that I already spend the engergy .. er money ... them I borrow it from somewher or when ... Gruss H. SCNR -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 5 09:58:12 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: References: <199902041133.MAA18181@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199902051459.PAA13412@horus.mch.sni.de> > > What about puting the pages within a restricted area, and the > > password is supplied with the acknowledge message of the lists > > registration ? So it would be 'restricted' to people that have > > the list also (or at least had it at one time). So the privacy > > would be simmilar to the list itself. > This can easily be done. I would prefer this before altering mails or snip of addresses. > > What about set up your own search engine, just for the CC-pages ? > As I have said in a previous post, the machine it runs on would not be > able to cope with a local search engine on it. Shure ? less than a 486/33 with 16 MB ? We've such a old guy running as web service (some 2000 pages) and with a search engine on top and all is going fast enough. OS is Linux. For the CC-search i think we cann accept some seconds to wait .) Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 5 09:58:12 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: References: <19990205004100.11310.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902051459.PAA13406@horus.mch.sni.de> > > > In which case, _no_ converter, electronic or rotary, or any other hack, > > > will help you. > > Yes. As you'll recall, that was exactly my point. > > > You can't get power from nowhere :-) > > There seems to be some controversy amongst physicists about this. > You'll note that they're all getting their power from their local > electric companies. "Vacuum energy" is a fine concept that may > someday power interstellar spacecraft (but I'm not going to hold > my breath waiting for it), it doesn't work down here in the Well. But still a nice idea - and to come back, of course there is a way to get 80A 240V youre household - just buy 'some' capacitors, load them and hook them up via a DC/AC unit to your computer ... hmm you _may_ realy need some more ... or more realistic: buy some accumulators, a charger and a DC/AC converter to hoock them up back online a supporting source. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 5 09:58:12 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Need some O.T. help In-Reply-To: References: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 3, 99 02:40:10 am Message-ID: <199902051459.PAA13409@horus.mch.sni.de> > > >like burning diesel fuel. I HATE ATX. > > Actually, I find it to be one of the most hilarious pieces of poor > > engineering in modern computers. ATX machines can switch off without any > > good reason, refuse to turn on, refuse to boot, refuse to turn off, and > > other things. If M$ designed a PSU, this would be it. > Automatic power switches are nothing new. The odd-numbered PERQs (1, 1a, > 3a) all had software-controlled turn-off. So does the Whitechapel MG1 and > the Torch XXX. > It can make a lot of sense on a unix box to have a software-controlled > power-down _provided the OS is stable_. The user command to turn off can > then sync the filesystem and then power off the machine. > Of course with the typical reliability of PC hardware and certain PC > software, I am not sure ATX is a good thing... Also the SIEMENS PC-D, a early '80s 80186 MS-DOS PC had some hard/software controll over the PS - basicly the on/off switch was in controll, but you where able to set (via a controll reg) a 'power hold device' to override the users power of command, until the Software ended operations. Nice features, and I used it some times - also there has been a FEIN-N signal on the serial ports for remote power on. Basicly the machine was a downgreded UNIX work station ... Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From dragon at panix.com Fri Feb 5 09:04:31 1999 From: dragon at panix.com (Michael G Hart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: Z80 S-100 SBC or Z80 S-100 Slave cards Message-ID: I am primarily looking for some several Z80 S-100 slave cards. Compupro use to sell Z80 slave s100 cards with 64K or 256K of ram and serial port and parallel port. I also understand a one time some use to make S-100 SBC that met all the S-100 spec. So they could run as Temporary Bus Masters (TBM). Thus enabling someone to put up to 16 of them on the same S-100 bus. If you have a few either type you want to sell, e-mail me Michael From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 5 12:18:06 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed References: <90ced324.36b81fe0@aol.com> Message-ID: <36BB35DD.4D25728@epix.net> John, Hi. Do they have a website? If yes, can you supply the URL? Thanks, John Amirault Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. > > John G. Zabolitzky From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 5 09:09:28 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 stuff wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990205090928.00f7b100@pc> At 08:51 AM 2/5/99 -0500, David G Mcmurtrie wrote: > >In particular, I used to have the "Programmer`s Reference Manual" and a >book that mapped all of the memory locations and described the kernel >routines in detail. You can still get copies of "Mapping the C-64" from the author, Sheldon Leemon, at . - John From dragon at panix.com Fri Feb 5 09:10:55 1999 From: dragon at panix.com (Michael G Hart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Wanted: IMSAI 8" Floppy Drive Box Message-ID: IMSAI made a blue box that housed two 8-inch floppy disk drives. If you know where I could find one please e-mail me. Michael From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 5 09:13:41 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <19990205023155.11891.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990205091341.00f2a100@pc> At 02:31 AM 2/5/99 -0000, you wrote: > >As far as I know, no one has yet proven that you *can't* borrow some >of the zero-point energy. Proving a negative is always fruitless. Also, who said there's enough zero-point energy to be useful? - John From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 5 10:39:18 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Fwd: H89 + H8 for sale Message-ID: <4.1.19990205112249.00973d20@206.231.8.2> Well, FWIW, I'm just posting this from the Heath reflector if anybody's interested. Apparently, the fellow feels his work is worth something as I think the prices are a bit high. He doesn't actually realize the value of these things, so go easy on him. (I do not know him. I'm just a silly engineer myself and probably can do as good of work ;) Don't know exactly what he means by "detached keyboard" in the H89/H8 combo. I know one trick published years ago was to neatly cut off the keyboard end of the H89 case, place nice looking covers over the openings and run a suitable ribbon cable between. --Chris >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 224 >Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:22:36 EST >Reply-To: EasyGrk@AOL.COM >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List >From: Aaron Milavec >Subject: H89 + H8 for sale >To: HEATH@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >+++++++++++++++++++++++ >I have built three H89 Heathkit Computers. I am a Master Technician and have >wrapped the cables giving the interior a professional appearance. Would you >like to purchase one of these working units? > >Two (2) H89s, 14 years old, modest service, with 40+ diskettes filled with >various software, plus all manuals, $300 each plus shipping costs > >H89, with H8 (dual diskette drives, stand-alone) and with detached keyboard >(nicely finshed), $350 plus shipping costs, with 40+ diskettes filled with >software, plus manuals. > >Wolf ++ W8TMY ++ EasyGrk@aol.com for reply and info > >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- >To subscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: subscribe HEATH yourfirstname yourlastname >To unsubscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: signoff HEATH >Archives for HEATH: http://www.tempe.gov/archives >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 5 10:40:08 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:58 2005 Subject: Fwd: Diablo 1620 printer/typewrite Message-ID: <4.1.19990205113636.00991820@206.231.8.2> Here's another one from the same fellow, FWIW. >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 224 >Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:29:39 EST >Reply-To: EasyGrk@AOL.COM >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List >From: Aaron Milavec >Subject: Diablo 1620 printer/typewrite >To: HEATH@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >============================= >DIABLO 1620--terminal/printer/electronic typewriter. The "Cadillac" of daisy >wheel printers in superb condition with manual. Has been loafing at 600 baud >for the last ten years. $399 plus shipping costs. > >DIABLO 1640 with problems: $100 plus shipping costs. > >Moving in two weeks, hence any serious offer will be considered. > >Wolf ++ W8TMY ++ EasyGrk@aol.com for reply and info > >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- >To subscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: subscribe HEATH yourfirstname yourlastname >To unsubscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: signoff HEATH >Archives for HEATH: http://www.tempe.gov/archives >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- From spc at armigeron.com Fri Feb 5 11:55:05 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <199902051414.JAA01908@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 5, 99 09:14:22 am Message-ID: <199902051756.MAA13000@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/01c7f010/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Fri Feb 5 12:03:48 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <19990205023155.11891.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> Eric Smith wrote: > Dwight wrote: > > There seems to be controversy between the physicists and > > the charlatans. I don't think the physicists have any problem > > here. > > There are at least a few legitimate physicists that think that > it may be possible to tap the zero-point energy (which comes from > nowhere). > > Remember that not that long ago most physicists didn't believe that > it was possible for a black hole to emit radiation, but now most > of them accept it. The ideas for how zero-point energy might > be tapped are similar. The books get balanced by a corresponding > loss of energy elsewhere (or perhaps elsewhen). > > As far as I know, no one has yet proven that you *can't* borrow some > of the zero-point energy. Yes, many still look for that magic valve. As a good rule of thumb, don't invest in anyone that says he has found it. For the most part, we haven't been able to model the mathematical part correctly that shows that it can't be done. We haven't found one case in nature that uses the principle. This is usually a good case for there not being a way to do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice that nature has often been using that principle for something else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore why we can't do it but foolish to believe that because we don't know why we can't that somehow we will beat all the indicators and find the trick that nature missed and only we could find. Dwight From gram at cnct.com Fri Feb 5 12:14:45 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <199902051756.MAA13000@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > I've had to refocus one and it wasn't the easiest of things to do. You > can check out http://www.armigeron.com/people/spc/about/199807/focus.html > for more information about that. > > It was easier to get into than say, a Tandy 6000. What's hard to get into in a T6k? Lots of room to work. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From msg at computerpro.com Fri Feb 5 12:04:06 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Panasonic Hand Help Computer Message-ID: <36BB3296.CFB655D9@computerpro.com> Greetings, I am aware that the Panasonic HHC was a topic on this list some time ago; I have not yet had the fortitude to search the archives for leads therefore this request... Does anyone have any documentation (eg. user/operator manual, SNAP programming manual, cross-development s/w or information, schematics, etc.,etc.,etc.? If so, could you be convinced to make dups for cost and something for your time? We currently have a request in to a developer of Insurance software (on EPROM) to scour their archives for any information but as of yet they've not succeeded. All replies are much appreciated. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Musuem From gram at cnct.com Fri Feb 5 12:22:17 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > done. We haven't found one case in nature that uses the principle. > This is usually a good case for there not being a way to > do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice > that nature has often been using that principle for something > else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore > why we can't do it but foolish to believe that because we > don't know why we can't that somehow we will beat all the indicators > and find the trick that nature missed and only we could find. I can't think of any case in nature of fast nuclear fission like we've been able to do for fifty-odd years. In fact, I can't think of any "natural" way to achieve a critical mass of fissionable material. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From spc at armigeron.com Fri Feb 5 12:18:28 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: from "Ward D. Griffiths III" at Feb 5, 99 01:14:45 pm Message-ID: <199902051819.NAA13760@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 934 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/888d22bd/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 5 12:22:19 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > Yes, many still look for that magic valve. As a good rule > of thumb, don't invest in anyone that says he has found it. > For the most part, we haven't been able to model the > mathematical part correctly that shows that it can't be > done. We haven't found one case in nature that uses the principle. > This is usually a good case for there not being a way to > do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice Well, you don't see monkey's hurling themselve into space either (er, on their own volition that is). But we do that all the time. > that nature has often been using that principle for something > else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore > why we can't do it but foolish to believe that because we > don't know why we can't that somehow we will beat all the indicators > and find the trick that nature missed and only we could find. You mean like that naturally formed computing device found embedded in the rocks of a cave under a waterfall that somehow regulated the flow of the nearby river for reasons that are unclear? (Had to find someway to make this even remotely on topic :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 5 13:30:02 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: References: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <199902051831.TAA07138@horus.mch.sni.de> > > done. We haven't found one case in nature that uses the principle. > > This is usually a good case for there not being a way to > > do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice > > that nature has often been using that principle for something > > else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore > > why we can't do it but foolish to believe that because we > > don't know why we can't that somehow we will beat all the indicators > > and find the trick that nature missed and only we could find. > I can't think of any case in nature of fast nuclear fission like > we've been able to do for fifty-odd years. In fact, I can't think > of any "natural" way to achieve a critical mass of fissionable > material. Ridicoulous to think that there has never in this Universe been a critical gathering of fissionable material big enough to start a reaction. But we don't need the universe it has hapened on earth - there are several natural uranium deposits that tell stories that there must have been a moderate fission process within in the past. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 5 13:30:02 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> References: <19990205023155.11891.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902051831.TAA07144@horus.mch.sni.de> > Eric Smith wrote: > > Dwight wrote: > > > There seems to be controversy between the physicists and > > > the charlatans. I don't think the physicists have any problem > > > here. > > There are at least a few legitimate physicists that think that > > it may be possible to tap the zero-point energy (which comes from > > nowhere). > > Remember that not that long ago most physicists didn't believe that > > it was possible for a black hole to emit radiation, but now most > > of them accept it. The ideas for how zero-point energy might > > be tapped are similar. The books get balanced by a corresponding > > loss of energy elsewhere (or perhaps elsewhen). > > As far as I know, no one has yet proven that you *can't* borrow some > > of the zero-point energy. > Yes, many still look for that magic valve. As a good rule > of thumb, don't invest in anyone that says he has found it. > For the most part, we haven't been able to model the > mathematical part correctly that shows that it can't be > done. We haven't found one case in nature that uses the principle. > This is usually a good case for there not being a way to > do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice > that nature has often been using that principle for something > else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore > why we can't do it but foolish to believe that because we > don't know why we can't that somehow we will beat all the indicators > and find the trick that nature missed and only we could find. Do you realy want us make belive that Nature already had invented MS-Windows before ? Not even Blind Mother Nature van be that blind. Gruss h. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From jpero at cgocable.net Fri Feb 5 12:56:50 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <199902051414.JAA01908@user2.infinet.com> References: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 4, 99 09:28:17 pm Message-ID: <199902051854.NAA28041@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:14:22 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Ethan Dicks To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: photographing olf computers/parts > > Digital cameras are not cheap enough to be worth buying just to stick > > pictures on the web. For the same cost I could probably get a second-hand > > 'classic' camera, and have a lot of fun restoring it, and then take some > > real pictures. > > I have been seeing 640x480 cameras for $99 for quite some time. Compare this > with my $79 Connectix Color QuickCam (that needs a nearby computer). Yes, > a used fixed-lens camera is much under that, and an older SLR can be gotten > with that (but not a good lens!), but convenience has its value, too. To wit, how come we still don't see sub $500 digital cameras in canada at our local resellers? This is very nice if cost is $200. > Beyond simple things, I wouldn't imagine that one would _want_ to fix a modern > digital camera. I have enough problems with laptops. The parts for a 2-year- > old camera are undoubtably more expensive than a new camera of the same > resolution. Ummm... It's no harder than trying to fix SMD devices and small screws compared to laptops and modern motherboards. Only needs right stuff: Bottle of flux, high quality wick braid, fine good solder wire and any of quality weller solder stations around 100 dollars. Oh, if you need close up work, eye or clip on loupe can be obtained from your friendly watch repair store if they are willing to order one for you. Oh, Sometimes needs to make homemade tools like length of straightened out fine spring coil from cheapie walkman tape player clamped in a xacto holder, watchmaker fine treezers. If you have shaky hands, keep back on that caffine. I can do it with or without. Anyone who do watch repair for living make good SMD rework especially if they're not keeping back the heat fearful of melting or damaging something. :-( ) Jason D. From elvey at hal.com Fri Feb 5 12:55:50 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Driveand packs)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902051856.KAA01443@civic.hal.com> "Ward D. Griffiths III" wrote: > > I can't think of any case in nature of fast nuclear fission like > we've been able to do for fifty-odd years. In fact, I can't think > of any "natural" way to achieve a critical mass of fissionable > material. Hi All the pieces were there, all we've done is put the pieces to gether. In the zero-point case, there seem to be missing pieces. Besides, fast fission is not any different than regular fission that we knew about before hand. Just because nature hasn't made a fission bomb ( that we know of ) doesn't mean we have made a big jump on nature by mixing a material that multiplies neutrons with a material the used neutrons to trigger fission. We took things that we knew existed and combined them. Each part of the bomb used a principle that was known to work in nature. Nothing really new here. This isn't to belittle the creative nature of man to put thing together in creative ways but we are still just putting things together, in predictable ways, not making them do things that don't make sense. We built the bomb on sound understanding of the principles involved. We used things that were already there. We didn't invent a new nature of matter to make it work, we observed a natural processes that we knew worked and went from there. We didn't take a model of nature that we knew wasn't consistant with what we saw and expected it to create something that wasn't there before. Dwight From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Feb 5 13:00:25 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <199902051414.JAA01908@user2.infinet.com> References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990205105814.009b2f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 09:14 AM 2/5/99 -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I'm personally waiting for my next overseas job to justify buying a Kodak >DC260. I have used the DC40, DC50, DC120 and DC420. The DC260 has all the >features I could hope for in a $700 camera. The only better ones I have used >were multiple thousands. The DC260 has been eclipsed by a few cameras, the MX700 and the Q400 come to mind. When the grand parents get e-mail they will buy you a digital camera if you promise to take snap shots of the grandkids and email them. Classic computer collectors should be sure to get a 'macro' capable lens as a lot of interesting shots involve serial numbers and such. --Chuck From elvey at hal.com Fri Feb 5 13:05:53 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051831.TAA07138@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <199902051906.LAA01449@civic.hal.com> "Hans Franke" wrote: > > Ridicoulous to think that there has never in this Universe > been a critical gathering of fissionable material big enough > to start a reaction. But we don't need the universe it has > hapened on earth - there are several natural uranium deposits > that tell stories that there must have been a moderate fission > process within in the past. Hi It isn't just the quantity of fissionable material that makes a bomb work, you also need a way to increase the number of neutrons quickly. This material is sometimes called a trigger. The idea is a fast bomb, not a slowwww one. Dwight From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 5 13:10:28 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Driveand packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051856.KAA01443@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > We built the bomb on sound understanding of the > principles involved. We used things that were already > there. We didn't invent a new nature of matter to make > it work, we observed a natural processes that we knew > worked and went from there. We didn't take a model > of nature that we knew wasn't consistant with what > we saw and expected it to create something that wasn't > there before. Dwight, a hundred years from now, when historians write stories about those in the 20th century who thought zero-point energy was poppy-cock, they'll be talking about you :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From steverob at hotoffice.com Fri Feb 5 13:09:41 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <01BE5111.2CE34BA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. The computer works just fine with all my other software so, I suspect the disk is corrupt. If anyone has an extra copy of TRSDOS 6.x laying around, I'd really appreciate it. TIA, Steve Robertson From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 5 13:23:34 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <01BE5111.2CE34BA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the > TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any > farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From jpero at cgocable.net Fri Feb 5 13:39:14 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Building boot disks for PC RT 6150 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990205105814.009b2f00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> References: <199902051414.JAA01908@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <199902051936.OAA27814@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! I want to confirm that RT is really sick by trying different boot disk because both of my diagnostic and boot install disk always gives rapid flashing "99". What part can cause this problems even it did booted the disks but it stops with this error? Is there alterative OS for it and downloadable from 'net to test this out. Remember, I have only means of testing without or with MFM controller and 80MB HD. Thanks! Jason D. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 5 13:40:15 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990205091341.00f2a100@pc> from John Foust at "Feb 5, 1999 09:13:41 am" Message-ID: <199902051940.NAA14805@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > At 02:31 AM 2/5/99 -0000, you wrote: > > > >As far as I know, no one has yet proven that you *can't* borrow some > >of the zero-point energy. > > Proving a negative is always fruitless. Also, who said there's > enough zero-point energy to be useful? > Bah! Shows how much YOU know.. Why, I've just succeeded in generating 10 times as much zero-point energy as I did last week! Now, wheres Nikolai Tesla when you need him... -Lawrence LeMay From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 13:40:57 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990205091341.00f2a100@pc> (message from John Foust on Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:13:41 -0600) References: <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> <199902050152.RAA28953@civic.hal.com> <3.0.5.32.19990205091341.00f2a100@pc> Message-ID: <19990205194057.16555.qmail@brouhaha.com> John Foust wrote: > Proving a negative is always fruitless. Depends on how you prove it. The universe is too big to prove it by exhaustive search. But it may be possible to prove that tapping zero point energy is not allowed by current theories of physics (i.e., the Standard Model). This would be a useful result. And if it were proven that it is not allowed by theory, but someone ever manages to do it in practice, that would help with the development of a better theory. > Also, who said there's > enough zero-point energy to be useful? There's an absolutely insane amount of zero-point energy. How much of it can actually be tapped (if any) is another question. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 13:48:43 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:03:48 -0800 (PST)) References: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990205194843.16645.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dwight wrote: > We haven't found one case in nature that uses the principle. Which might only mean that we haven't looked hard enough or long enough. AFAIK, no one has found evidence of the existence of Bose-Einstein Condensate in nature. But since it has now been produced in laboratories, the principle obviously does work. From Jgzabol at aol.com Fri Feb 5 13:48:28 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed Message-ID: In einer eMail vom 05.02.99 16:09:15 MEZ, schreiben Sie: << John, Hi. Do they have a website? If yes, can you supply the URL? Thanks, John Amirault Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. > > John G. Zabolitzky >> As far as I know, they do NOT have a web site. I believe telephone is the only way to get into any contact with them. John From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 13:57:26 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Driveand packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051856.KAA01443@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:55:50 -0800 (PST)) References: <199902051856.KAA01443@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990205195726.16699.qmail@brouhaha.com> > We didn't invent a new nature of matter to make > it work, we observed a natural processes that we knew > worked and went from there. We didn't take a model > of nature that we knew wasn't consistant with what > we saw and expected it to create something that wasn't > there before. We didn't invent a new nature of matter to come up with zero-point energy either. AFAIK, it is entirely consistent with the Standard Model. The Standard Model has proven remarkably good at predicting the existence of things that have never previously been observed, such as the top quark and several of the vector guage bosons. As I.I. Rabi asked about the muon, "Who ordered that?" From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Feb 5 14:05:22 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: References: <01BE5111.2CE34BA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990205120407.00aedf00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 11:23 AM 2/5/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: >> I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the >> TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any >> farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. >Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not >like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) Try entering a 1998 date. The year '99' to TRSDOS may be "special" in the sense that they code it to mean "date not initialized". If this fixes it then you've just entered the Y2K Zone ... --Chuck From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Feb 5 14:08:11 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <009f01be5143$4275aee0$db6e0181@fauradon1.beckman.com> I don't think that 2/5/99 is a more valid date than 5/2/99 Anyways the Europeans got it right you are the one writting the date backward. The proof is that everyone in europe places the day first so they must be right. Hint the Europeans go in increasing relevance: day/month/year and not the very unelegant month/day/year. Why don't you set the time in Minutes:Seconds:Hours while you're at it? Francois Disclaimer: I've adopted the US standard now but I think it sucks. >Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not >like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > From gram at cnct.com Fri Feb 5 14:17:06 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <01BE5111.2CE34BA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the > TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any > farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. > > The computer works just fine with all my other software so, I suspect the > disk is corrupt. If anyone has an extra copy of TRSDOS 6.x laying around, > I'd really appreciate it. The problem is that TRSDOS 6 will not accept _any_ date after 1987. That applies to 6.0, 6.1 and 6.2. Try giving it a 1986 date and see if it takes it. Supposedly, it is still possible to get the update to TRSDOS to fix this from Tandy, however it is not necessary. Go to Tim Mann's web page, where he has available for download the final release of LS-DOS, which has the fix. http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/trs80.html Oh, and while you're there, and if you run Linux or any other flavor of *nix, grab a copy of his newest improved xtrs TRS-80 emulator. I am now running Model One Scripsit and VisiCalc on my P133 notebook with no need to use dosemu as a go-between as was the case with the other emulators I'd tried. (There's a .rpm of the version a couple of patchlevels back at contrib.redhat.com). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From jlwest at tseinc.com Fri Feb 5 14:13:38 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 Message-ID: <010301be5144$04d8dde0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> I'm not quite willing to give away my secret source yet (they're a commercial source), but I wanted to let folks know in case anyone is desperately searching for the following.... My source has several omnibus modules available: M868 simple dectape control $100.00 plus shipping M8650 console interface $100.00 plus shipping Let me know if interested... Jay West From steverob at hotoffice.com Fri Feb 5 14:17:19 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <01BE511A.9FB59670.steverob@hotoffice.com> Actually, I meant to say "Date" not "Time". Can't blame this on the europeans. "02/04/99" should work either way. Actually, I assumed that it was operator error but the other apps work OK. Since the other software works properly (IE: Profile III), I "think" we can eliminate hardware problems. And... since the dummy behind the keyboard (Me) is functioning correctly, that only leaves the software. Another question: There are several sites on the net that have Model III and IV software on-line. How do I get the software from a modern Pentium (surfing machine) on to a diskette that is readable by the Model IV? I also have a TRS-80 TL2 with 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 inch drives. Can I download the software on to a 720K disk and then transfer it 360K using the TL2? Thanks... Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 2:24 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the > TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any > farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Feb 5 14:26:50 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 In-Reply-To: <010301be5144$04d8dde0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990205122439.00afb310@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 02:13 PM 2/5/99 -0600, Jay West wrote: >My source has several omnibus modules available: >M868 simple dectape control $100.00 plus shipping >M8650 console interface $100.00 plus shipping These are not hard to find (especially at the $100/pop price) Keyways usually stocks them (any web search will turn them up). The ones that are tough to find are the core stacks (I'm in the market for one or more), EAE sets (M8341/42) with matching M8330 timing board, and the graphics sets. --Chuck From steverob at hotoffice.com Fri Feb 5 14:29:10 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <01BE511C.47ACE580.steverob@hotoffice.com> *1987*... Now there's foresight! Well... That sounds like the problem. I had tried some other years in case the "99" was the problem but, didn't think to try anything that far back. I'll give that a try when I get home. I Don't have my Linux box running at the moment so, I'll grab the emulator later. Thanks. Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader -----Original Message----- From: Ward D. Griffiths III [SMTP:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 3:17 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS The problem is that TRSDOS 6 will not accept _any_ date after 1987. That applies to 6.0, 6.1 and 6.2. Try giving it a 1986 date and see if it takes it. Supposedly, it is still possible to get the update to TRSDOS to fix this from Tandy, however it is not necessary. Go to Tim Mann's web page, where he has available for download the final release of LS-DOS, which has the fix. http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/Tim_Mann/trs80.html Oh, and while you're there, and if you run Linux or any other flavor of *nix, grab a copy of his newest improved xtrs TRS-80 emulator. I am now running Model One Scripsit and VisiCalc on my P133 notebook with no need to use dosemu as a go-between as was the case with the other emulators I'd tried. (There's a .rpm of the version a couple of patchlevels back at contrib.redhat.com). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Feb 5 14:33:00 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Building boot disks for PC RT 6150 Message-ID: <70eafb66.36bb557c@aol.com> In a message dated 99-02-05 14:38:40 EST, you write: << I want to confirm that RT is really sick by trying different boot disk because both of my diagnostic and boot install disk always gives rapid flashing "99". What part can cause this problems even it did booted the disks but it stops with this error? >> i was meaning to get out my RT info to check, but never got a round tuit. you might want to post to comp.sys.ibm.pc.rt not much traffic, but i'm sure someone will respond to you there. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 5 14:37:33 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <009f01be5143$4275aee0$db6e0181@fauradon1.beckman.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, [iso-8859-1] Fran=E7ois Auradon wrote: > I don't think that 2/5/99 is a more valid date than 5/2/99 > Anyways the Europeans got it right you are the one writting the date > backward. The proof is that everyone in europe places the day first so th= ey > must be right. Hint the Europeans go in increasing relevance: day/month/y= ear > and not the very unelegant month/day/year. Why don't you set the time in > Minutes:Seconds:Hours while you're at it? > Francois > Disclaimer: I've adopted the US standard now but I think it sucks. Oops. I forgot to add the :) at the end to prevent people from getting hostile ;) > >Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not > >like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.= com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From gram at cnct.com Fri Feb 5 14:46:01 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <01BE511A.9FB59670.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > Actually, I meant to say "Date" not "Time". > > Can't blame this on the europeans. "02/04/99" should work either way. > Actually, I assumed that it was operator error but the other apps work OK. > > Since the other software works properly (IE: Profile III), I "think" we can > eliminate hardware problems. And... since the dummy behind the keyboard > (Me) is functioning correctly, that only leaves the software. > > Another question: There are several sites on the net that have Model III > and IV software on-line. How do I get the software from a modern Pentium > (surfing machine) on to a diskette that is readable by the Model IV? > > I also have a TRS-80 TL2 with 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 inch drives. Can I download > the software on to a 720K disk and then transfer it 360K using the TL2? That's entirely possible. I recommend using degaussed diskettes when writing TRS-80 format on a 360k drive. Tim Mann's site includes the TRSCROSS utility to run on the TL2. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 4 19:41:35 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902051803.KAA01398@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: >do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice >that nature has often been using that principle for something >else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore But man is a natural phenomenon. All of our skyscrapers (not to mention classic computers) are just as natural as trees and mountains. However, everything that we have ever done is an order of magnitude simpler. So, it might be _theoretically_ possible, but might require some nonsense like a 500 teraton nuclear bomb. From gram at cnct.com Fri Feb 5 14:57:53 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <01BE511C.47ACE580.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > *1987*... Now there's foresight! > > Well... That sounds like the problem. I had tried some other years in case > the "99" was the problem but, didn't think to try anything that far back. > I'll give that a try when I get home. Actually, the problem propagated from the first version of Model One TRSDOS written by Randy Cook in 1978, when the limited directory space available on a 35-track single-density diskette was defined. At the time the decision was to sacrifice the date in favor of file level passwords. The patch to fix that in LDOS and LS-DOS coincidentally strips the password feature. (Model II TRSDOS never had a problem, since the only thing it had in common with Model 1/3/4 TRSDOS was the name -- however, the 8" version of LS-DOS for the 2/12/16/6000 did have the problem, and no patch was ever made -- really not too surprising, I bought my copy about three years after it was announced and got serial number 25). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From steverob at hotoffice.com Fri Feb 5 14:56:36 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) Message-ID: <01BE5120.1CED2720.steverob@hotoffice.com> Back on topic. With our luck, they'll harness this thing and energy will dirt cheap. But... We'll still have single phase in our homes and thus no "heavy iron" in the garage :-) Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin [SMTP:max82@surfree.com] Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 8:42 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: >do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice >that nature has often been using that principle for something >else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore But man is a natural phenomenon. All of our skyscrapers (not to mention classic computers) are just as natural as trees and mountains. However, everything that we have ever done is an order of magnitude simpler. So, it might be _theoretically_ possible, but might require some nonsense like a 500 teraton nuclear bomb. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 13:34:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <199902051414.JAA01908@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 5, 99 09:14:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/cc790ace/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Fri Feb 5 15:27:43 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902052127.NAA01560@civic.hal.com> Max Eskin wrote: > On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > >do it. As we look at everything man has done, we notice > >that nature has often been using that principle for something > >else for billions of years. It is vary important to explore > > But man is a natural phenomenon. All of our skyscrapers (not to mention > classic computers) are just as natural as trees and mountains. However, > everything that we have ever done is an order of magnitude simpler. So, it > might be _theoretically_ possible, but might require some nonsense like a > 500 teraton nuclear bomb. And why do I see this argument as being on my side? On a separate line, modeling is an interesting thing. Where I work, we model how semiconductors work. Even though the models makes many valid predictions, it is also incomplete in representing real silicon. The models make other predictions that don't work as well. The trick of using models to make predictions is that they have a chance of predicting correctly if they don't violate rules that we have never seen violated before. If they point to new rules that we see no particular violations, then we should expect that we have a chance. Like I said, we should completely understand what in our model that makes a prediction that seems to contradict what we have seen to be true. It is also that we are not seeing things correctly but to treat predictions that contradict known understanding as a good candidate for a valuable new science is truly a waste of time. In order for goal oriented science to stand a chance of working such as making the bomb, we need to be at the point where there are no contradictions that we know of. The problem is that there are a lot of things that ARE and likewise a lot of things that AREN'T. We understand, slightly, only a small amount of things that are and can think of orders of magnitude of things that aren't. If we were, tomorrow, to find a new working principle of the universe that explained how we could violate the principle of conservation of energy that would allow taking advantage of Zero-point energy then I would say go for it. Without that new principle, talking about using this new source of energy is about as useful as worrying about the probability that all my atoms might suddenly move five feet to the left. Probability and practicability are two quite different things. We can talk about making free energy from magnetism or a car that runs 2000 miles on a drop of gas. How about instantaneous flight to distant galaxies, temperatures less than absolute zero, worm holes in space, .... Any one of these things may be possible. Wasting much time exploring these with the knowledge we have today would most likely be fruitless. We might stumble across the key to any of these tomorrow but not likely for any specific one of them. In making the bomb, the scientist of the time that did the work, saw that there was a lot of work to do to create the thing but didn't have any specific nature of things that they otherwise knew of at the time that would mean that it couldn't be done. It was specifically because they thought that they had all the pieces that they attempted it in the first place. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Fri Feb 5 15:31:52 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <01BE5120.1CED2720.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <199902052132.NAA01565@civic.hal.com> Steve Robertson wrote: > Back on topic. > > With our luck, they'll harness this thing and energy will dirt cheap. > But... We'll still have single phase in our homes and thus no "heavy iron" > in the garage :-) > > Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. Dwight From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 4 20:46:23 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions Message-ID: Hi, I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Feb 5 16:08:18 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Auradon?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <001601be5154$09f115d0$db6e0181@fauradon1.beckman.com> Me Too... I didn't mean to read hostile;) Francois >Oops. I forgot to add the :) at the end to prevent people from getting >hostile ;) From dogas at leading.net Fri Feb 5 15:59:47 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Panasonic Hand Help Computer Message-ID: <01be5152$d8557580$e3c962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grigoni >Does anyone have any documentation... I may have some stuff your looking for. I have a HHC that was sold as a package by Kentucky Central Life Insurance ( bill of sale says for $650.) I have the: HHC, printer, touristor luggage ;) And... Manual: Model: RL-H1000/RL-H1400 Instructions for use Manual: User Manual, romPower by Pictorial, Universal Life Plus, Commonwealth Insurance Manual: Handheld Computer Instructions, Kentucky Central Life Insurance And several eproms RomPower Capital Holding Master A RomPower Capital Holding Master B RomPower Capital Holding, Classic +, Indiv. Tables KCL VIP KCLVIP Util KCL VIP Tables If you need anything... - Mike: dogas@leading.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 15:39:42 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <199902051854.NAA28041@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@cgocable.net" at Feb 5, 99 01:56:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/5b41e8f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 15:44:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <01BE5111.2CE34BA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> from "Steve Robertson" at Feb 5, 99 02:09:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1361 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/c086e7fe/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 17:00:46 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 In-Reply-To: <010301be5144$04d8dde0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> (jlwest@tseinc.com) References: <010301be5144$04d8dde0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: <19990205230046.17398.qmail@brouhaha.com> > M868 simple dectape control $100.00 plus shipping The infamous TD8-E. Don't use this unless you can't get a "real" DECtape control, which would be a TC01 or TC08. Of course, for use on an Omnibus PDP-8 (8/e, 8/f, 8/m, 8/a), those also require the positive I/O bus interface, data break interface, and possibly a negative bus converter. So on second thought, if you have an Omnibus 8, maybe the TD8-E isn't so bad. > M8650 console interface $100.00 plus shipping Seems rather pricey to me. Now if I could get the M8655 for this price... From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 17:03:39 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: PDP-8/e display controllers (was Re: FS: M868, M8650) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990205122439.00afb310@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Fri, 05 Feb 1999 12:26:50 -0800) References: <4.1.19990205122439.00afb310@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <19990205230339.17409.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > The ones that are tough to find are [...] the graphics sets. Do you mean the VC8-E point-plot display control (usually used with a VR14 monitor), or the VT8-E raster display control, which has an RS-170 output for use with a "normal" monitor? I've got the former, but I'd *really* like to get the latter. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 17:06:19 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <199902052132.NAA01565@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:31:52 -0800 (PST)) References: <199902052132.NAA01565@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990205230619.17452.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dwight writes: > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. I'm definitely not going to try *that* approach with an RP06. :-) From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 17:08:03 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: (message from Max Eskin on Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:46:23 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990205230803.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> Max Eskin wrote: > So far, I have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ > invent the PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) You missed one of the most important ones: Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 5 17:16:01 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <19990205230803.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Feb 5, 1999 11:08:03 pm" Message-ID: <199902052316.RAA15222@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > Max Eskin wrote: > > So far, I have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ > > invent the PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) > > You missed one of the most important ones: > > Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING. > I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it, so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to understand". BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. -Lawrence LeMay From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 5 17:21:40 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <19990205230803.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 5 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING. I thought they invented several licensing approaches for which they're now being investigated. -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 5 17:32:04 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902052316.RAA15222@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING. > > I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever > it was called. No, Intel invented the GPF, but Microsoft embraced and extended it. -- Doug From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 4 22:35:26 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:40:59 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: >No, Intel invented the GPF, but Microsoft embraced and extended it. Actually, I'm pretty sure it was DEC (or whoever made the first protected-mode processor). --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 5 17:46:13 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > >No, Intel invented the GPF, but Microsoft embraced and extended it. > > Actually, I'm pretty sure it was DEC (or whoever made the first > protected-mode processor). Nice; take a perfectly good joke and analyze it. AFAIK, Intel was the first to have segment-level protection for which there may be several types of "general" faults. Earlier processors had other protection schemes, such as page-level protection, which would throw *specific* page faults (which Intel also does). I'm sure somebody will prove me wrong, but I say my joke stands up to the closest scrutiny until they do! -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 17:38:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 4, 99 09:46:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 810 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/96c7f719/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 17:39:47 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 In-Reply-To: <19990205230046.17398.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 5, 99 11:00:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 265 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990205/468e1583/attachment.ksh From dragon at panix.com Fri Feb 5 18:02:10 1999 From: dragon at panix.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Just about anything IMSAI Message-ID: <005001be5163$f3845220$fb01a8c0@Interface.braintrust.com> I am trying to get 2 more IMSAI 8080. Does any one out there have one for sale Michael From pechter at monmouth.com Fri Feb 5 18:04:05 1999 From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <19990205230619.17452.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Feb 5, 1999 11: 6:19 pm" Message-ID: <199902060004.TAA07979@pechter.nws.net> > Dwight writes: > > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. > > I'm definitely not going to try *that* approach with an RP06. :-) > > Interestingly, RP06's do not use three phase motors. They use a 220 motor (two phases). The other drives some of the card cage logic for the Massbus (DCL adapter?). You can break the RP04-II/RP05/RP06 out to run on 220. The RP04 was a true three phase motor driven item. Bill (almost exactly 15 years after RP06 maintenance training) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From dogas at leading.net Fri Feb 5 18:16:32 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Help: Thinker toys Wunderbuss??? Message-ID: <01be5165$f2f45c40$f8c962cf@devlaptop> I have a chance to get an old system but I'm having trouble locating info for it.... It's a homebrew (s-100??? mounted on plywood for chriscakes). Thinker toys Wunderbuss, 11 slot mb, 2x8" drives, 2x(stringy?)wafer drives, alot of wirewrap boards... maybe a punchtape/reader :) !!! Can anyone give me more/any info on this type of setup?? Thanks - Mike From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 5 18:44:38 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902052132.NAA01565@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > Steve Robertson wrote: > > Back on topic. > > > > With our luck, they'll harness this thing and energy will dirt cheap. > > But... We'll still have single phase in our homes and thus no "heavy iron" > > in the garage :-) > > > > Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader > > > > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. > Dwight > ...and if you want to 'automate' it, direct couple a much smaller induction motor to spin the 3phase unit. - don From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 5 18:59:12 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: 1130 has been claimed References: Message-ID: <36BB93E0.FF16A61B@epix.net> John, OK, fine, THANKS. I will not call Germany, I am interested, but not that much. John Amirault Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > In einer eMail vom 05.02.99 16:09:15 MEZ, schreiben Sie: > > << > John, > Hi. Do they have a website? If yes, can you supply the URL? > Thanks, > John Amirault > > Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > > > There is a _WORKING_ 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. > > > > John G. Zabolitzky > > >> > > As far as I know, they do NOT have a web site. I believe telephone is the > only way to get into any contact with them. > John From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 5 19:02:21 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS References: <01BE5111.2CE34BA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> <4.1.19990205120407.00aedf00@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <36BB949D.2353875B@epix.net> Hi, Try entering the year as a four digit number. I need to do this with my IBM PCJr's in order to get them to boot. John Amirault Chuck McManis wrote: > At 11:23 AM 2/5/99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: > >On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > >> I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the > >> TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any > >> farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. > >Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not > >like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) > > Try entering a 1998 date. The year '99' to TRSDOS may be "special" in the > sense that they code it to mean "date not initialized". If this fixes it > then you've just entered the Y2K Zone ... > > --Chuck From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 5 18:59:14 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990205152342.5eefee9c@ricochet.net> At 09:28 PM 2/4/99 +0000, you wrote: >> are quite adequate. Screens are about 72dpi, my Sony Mavica FD-71 is >> 640x480 (or a little over 100dpi for a 4x6 photo). > >Digital cameras are not cheap enough to be worth buying just to stick >pictures on the web. For the same cost I could probably get a second-hand >'classic' camera, and have a lot of fun restoring it, and then take some >real pictures. Consider: Sony Mavica: $660 Take picture, size, and upload. Scanner (Cheap) $50 Cheap 35mm Camera $50 Film - dollar or two per roll Developing (Cheap) $4 per roll ScanTime (I got it down to 4 minutes per pic) So, for 24 pics: Sony Scan $660 $105 Equip/Supplies $ 0 $ 96 Scan time (at $60/hr) $ x $ x Size/Upload (same for both) ---- ---- $660 $201 Now for multiple rolls (say 5): Sony Scan $660 $125 Equip/Supplies $ 0 $480 Scan Time ---- ---- $660 $605 The more you take, the more cost effective it becomes. (Mind you, I don't know how you value your time, but waiting for a scanner hardly seems a good use of my time). I know I've taken a lot more than 5 rolls worth of digpics -- Take a look at for example. And I've got a lot of classic computers to take too. The Mavica is not the cheapest DigCamera either. If you go for one of the less expensive models, your costs go way down. > >Also those digital cameras are too darn small. I don't fancy having to >fix the thing... > >-tony > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 5 18:59:20 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990205152527.5eef6ab6@ricochet.net> At 09:32 PM 2/4/99 +0000, you wrote: >me wants the machine code monitor. But the user in me wants to be able to >enter text. And most people are just users. I didn't know there *was* a user in you. 8^) >Yes, you could get text editor ROMs for the HX20. But you couldn't buy an >HX20 and start using it to enter text in the field. That, IMHO, is why >the M100 was more successful. Don't underestimate the value of a RatShack on every corner. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From wpe101 at banet.net Fri Feb 5 19:03:21 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions References: Message-ID: <36BB94D9.F4C2985C@banet.net> A classic misconception, fostered by humans... When your bill is wrong, your bank account balance screwed up, your paycheck short.. They say IT WAS A COMPUTER ERROR! Will Max Eskin wrote: > > Hi, > I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat > the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas > for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I > have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the > PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 5 19:08:50 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS References: <01BE511A.9FB59670.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <36BB9621.C7EA4DF9@epix.net> Steve, Hi. Do you have a disk drive bay empty? If yes, try installing the size and type drive you have on the CLASSIC into the surfer. If the drive will not fit inside the pentium, just do an external mount. I hope this helps you. John Amirault Steve Robertson wrote: > Actually, I meant to say "Date" not "Time". > > Can't blame this on the europeans. "02/04/99" should work either way. > Actually, I assumed that it was operator error but the other apps work OK. > > Since the other software works properly (IE: Profile III), I "think" we can > eliminate hardware problems. And... since the dummy behind the keyboard > (Me) is functioning correctly, that only leaves the software. > > Another question: There are several sites on the net that have Model III > and IV software on-line. How do I get the software from a modern Pentium > (surfing machine) on to a diskette that is readable by the Model IV? > > I also have a TRS-80 TL2 with 5-1/4 and 3-1/2 inch drives. Can I download > the software on to a 720K disk and then transfer it 360K using the TL2? > > Thanks... > > Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Ismail [SMTP:dastar@ncal.verio.com] > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 2:24 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS > > On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > > > I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of > the > > TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any > > farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. > > Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not > like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From Roger at Sinasohn.com Fri Feb 5 19:02:54 1999 From: Roger at Sinasohn.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Fwd: Old computers Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990205160331.600f4f38@mail.sinasohn.com> An aside, if anyone is interested in a IIgs, IIe, or Atari 800, please let me know; there's a thrift shop hereabouts with them. FYI... Reply to: >From: DUpah19927@aol.com >I was browsing through your web site about the old computers that you collect. >I have a couple of old computers myself that I am looking to sell. If you >would like to have them or know of anyone else that would like them, please >let me know. > >I am attaching the pictures of the computers I have right now. The first is >an Apple IIc+. The other is an Epson Apex, built in 1980. > >Let me know, >D > >Attachment Converted: "C:\DOWNLOAD\ATTACH\EPSON.zip" > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 5 19:11:29 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS References: Message-ID: <36BB96C1.3D41E0B3@epix.net> Sam, I am still a newbie to this group and the internet. Please answer this question. What does :) mean? John Amirault Sam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, [iso-8859-1] Fran?ois Auradon wrote: > > > I don't think that 2/5/99 is a more valid date than 5/2/99 > > Anyways the Europeans got it right you are the one writting the date > > backward. The proof is that everyone in europe places the day first so they > > must be right. Hint the Europeans go in increasing relevance: day/month/year > > and not the very unelegant month/day/year. Why don't you set the time in > > Minutes:Seconds:Hours while you're at it? > > Francois > > Disclaimer: I've adopted the US standard now but I think it sucks. > > Oops. I forgot to add the :) at the end to prevent people from getting > hostile ;) > > > >Are you sure you're entering the time in the "correct" format (i.e. not > > >like those silly Europeans who put the day before the month?) > > :) > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Feb 5 19:14:07 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 stuff wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201be516d$fe3abce0$70afadce@5x86jk> e-mail at jrkeys@concentric.net and we can work something out. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of David G Mcmurtrie > Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 7:51 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Commodore 64 stuff wanted > > > I'm specifically looking for a power supply for a Commodore 64, but I'd > also like to pick up some old documentation, too. > > In particular, I used to have the "Programmer`s Reference Manual" and a > book that mapped all of the memory locations and described the kernel > routines in detail. > > Any info would be appreciated. I'm in the Pittsburgh, Pa area. > > Dave McMurtrie > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 5 19:24:17 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Help: Thinker toys Wunderbuss??? Message-ID: <19990206013915753.AAA161@fuj04> It's difficult to give you information about wirewrapped boards. What, exactly, did you want to know. You're probably right in that the backplane is S-100, since that's what the Wunderbuss was. It's clear what the 8" floppy drives are. I certainly can't tell you what the punch/reader is if you can't tell. Mounting a motherboard on plywood was an easy way to do things if you knew well in advance that you needed to "get at" the boards with 'scope probes, etc. It saved extender boards and the associated problems. Dick ---------- > From: Mike > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Help: Thinker toys Wunderbuss??? > Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 5:16 PM > > I have a chance to get an old system but I'm having trouble locating info > for it.... > > It's a homebrew (s-100??? mounted on plywood for chriscakes). Thinker toys > Wunderbuss, 11 slot mb, 2x8" drives, 2x(stringy?)wafer drives, alot of > wirewrap boards... maybe a punchtape/reader :) !!! > > Can anyone give me more/any info on this type of setup?? > > Thanks > - Mike From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 19:35:06 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902052127.NAA01560@civic.hal.com> (message from Dwight Elvey on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:27:43 -0800 (PST)) References: <199902052127.NAA01560@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <19990206013506.20464.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dwight Elvey wrote: > If we were, tomorrow, to find a new working principle of the > universe that explained how we could violate the principle > of conservation of energy that would allow taking > advantage of Zero-point energy then I would say go for > it. So what you're telling us is that you've PROVEN that there is no way to take advantage of zero-point energy without violating the principle of conservation of matter and energy? Or are you just guessing? Note also that many principles that used to be widely accepted as "truth" have since fallen out of favor, because they were later found not to hold under all conditions, e.g., Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation. And the principle I mentioned previously that held that black holes couldn't emit radiation. If you could somehow use that radiation, you would have a seeming violation of the conservation of matter and energy. But it is only a local violation, which is allowed. It isn't a real violation, because the black hole is losing mass. Similarly, there may be a way to harness zero-point energy that involves only a local violation of conservation. > Without that new principle, talking about using > this new source of energy is about as useful as worrying > about the probability that all my atoms might suddenly > move five feet to the left. Sure. And I suppose there was no point to talking about the possibility of heavier-than-air craft flying before all the laws of aerodynamics were understood, either. And presumably there was no point to talking about the possiblity of communicating over thousands of miles in real time before Quantum Electrodynamics was fully understood. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 19:30:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990205152342.5eefee9c@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Feb 5, 99 04:59:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1613 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990206/50c4632f/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 19:37:28 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: (message from Doug on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:46:13 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990206013728.20471.qmail@brouhaha.com> Doug wrote: > AFAIK, Intel was the > first to have segment-level protection for which there may be several > types of "general" faults. No, segments (and segment-related faults) were around for many years before Intel was even founded. The GE 645 (on which Multics was developed) comes to mind. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 5 19:32:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need help on old Tandy stuff -- Allison? Anyone else? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990205152527.5eef6ab6@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Feb 5, 99 04:59:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 526 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990206/bcf0d96b/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 19:39:55 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <199902060004.TAA07979@pechter.nws.net> (message from Bill Pechter on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:04:05 -0500 (EST)) References: <199902060004.TAA07979@pechter.nws.net> Message-ID: <19990206013955.20490.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > I'm definitely not going to try *that* approach with an RP06. :-) Bill Pechter wrote: > Interestingly, RP06's do not use three phase motors. They use a 220 > motor (two phases). The other drives some of the card cage logic for > the Massbus (DCL adapter?). My mistake. Maybe I was thinking of RM05s. So how much power *does* an RP06 require? Both the continuous maximum and the spinup peak would be desirable to know. Eric From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Feb 5 19:42:08 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <002601be5171$ffe98180$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hi, Check this site out http://wwws.enterprise.net/fortknox/emoticon/smiley.html Francois >Sam, >I am still a newbie to this group and the internet. Please answer this question. >What does :) mean? >John Amirault > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 5 19:45:12 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 In-Reply-To: <19990205230046.17398.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Feb 5, 1999 11:00:46 pm" Message-ID: <199902060145.TAA15463@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > M868 simple dectape control $100.00 plus shipping > > The infamous TD8-E. Don't use this unless you can't get a "real" > DECtape control, which would be a TC01 or TC08. Of course, for use > on an Omnibus PDP-8 (8/e, 8/f, 8/m, 8/a), those also require the > positive I/O bus interface, data break interface, and possibly a > negative bus converter. So on second thought, if you have an > Omnibus 8, maybe the TD8-E isn't so bad. > > > M8650 console interface $100.00 plus shipping > > Seems rather pricey to me. Now if I could get the M8655 for this price... > How about a M7856 ? -Lawrence LeMay From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Feb 5 19:54:52 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990205152342.5eefee9c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990205205452.00917a40@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Uncle Roger had spoken clearly: >Scanner (Cheap) $50 Not worth owning.... $180.00 >Cheap 35mm Camera $50 Not worth owning... $125 (used Canon t-body or other *decent* 35mm) >ScanTime (I got it down to 4 minutes per pic) Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang.. No wonder you don't want to wait! My (new) Umax Astra 1220S - 600x1200 DPI, 23Meg scan: 45 Seconds flat. (lower resolutions are obviously faster - 15-20 sec's for 100-200 dpi) (erm, get a *good* SCSI card, too. Mine's a Diamond Fireport 40 UW - *fast*. -- that and the 256Meg RAM in my machine doesn't hurt either... ;-) >Now for multiple rolls (say 5): > >Sony Scan >$660 $125 Equip/Supplies >$ 0 $480 Scan Time >---- ---- >$660 $605 > >The more you take, the more cost effective it becomes. (Mind you, I don't >know how you value your time, but waiting for a scanner hardly seems a good >use of my time). As above, don't wait. Spend a little more for a good one. Also, the better scanners you can scan multiple pictures in one shot - my Umax does that. Of course, if you're doing solely web publishing where picture quality doesn't have to be pristine, your point is well taken. >The Mavica is not the cheapest DigCamera either. If you go for one of the >less expensive models, your costs go way down. Erm... then you wait for the serial port. Tho I'm not keen on the Mavica (due to low resolution) waiting for scanner (sweet pix) vs. waiting for serial (cruddy pix) is a lot closer to a no-brainer. Of course there's USB, but those cameras are rather expensive yet (last I checked). I'm not knocking the digpix... for many, many things they're very handy; and the Mavica is about the best for web-stuff due to storage format... but it's much easier to re-touch a never-been-lossy-compressed 600dpi 23M image for best quality vs. a 640x480 mediocre-at-best pre-compressed image. And if you get a Ricoh digcamera, there's one thing it can do that *no* 35mm camera (that I know of) can... record a soundbyte with the picture and xfer the stuff over at the same time. Just my $0.000000002 (and that's all it's worth), Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 19:51:22 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990206015122.20608.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony asks: > Are M8655s rare or something? More rare than M8650s, it seems. > What's special about them - isn't it just a > plain async (console-ish) port using a UART? Yes. From pechter at monmouth.com Fri Feb 5 19:56:25 1999 From: pechter at monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs) In-Reply-To: <19990206013955.20490.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Feb 6, 1999 1:39:55 am" Message-ID: <199902060156.UAA08343@pechter.nws.net> > I wrote: > > I'm definitely not going to try *that* approach with an RP06. :-) > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > Interestingly, RP06's do not use three phase motors. They use a 220 > > motor (two phases). The other drives some of the card cage logic for > > the Massbus (DCL adapter?). > > My mistake. Maybe I was thinking of RM05s. > > So how much power *does* an RP06 require? Both the continuous maximum and > the spinup peak would be desirable to know. > > Eric > > No clue. I did find what I thought was the exact same motor in a Kenmore or Whirlpool washing machine once. (GE made the motor... -- I was watching the repairman with glee as he fought with it). A bitch to change without the field service"RP06 motor removal/replacement tool" which was a big round six wide pipe to place under the motor so it didn't drop and crunch your hands flat. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 5 20:06:47 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: OT: Free System 7.5.3 for Mac's Message-ID: While the OS is off-topic, the machines it will run on aren't. Finally people can get something other than System 7.0.1 for free. I just got this from the Apple Developer news: ---------------------------------------- [2] Mac OS 7.5.3 Posted for Free Downloading Apple has posted the full North American English version of System 7.5.3 to its web site for free downloading. http://swupdates.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/lister.pl?Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Softw are_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Vers ion_7.5.3/ The Mac OS System 7.5.5 update has also been posted. http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/System/System_7.5.5_Update/ (Apple recommends that all users who install System 7.5.3 to also load the System 7.5.5 update.) ---------------------------------------- I don't remember if 7.5.5 is the last version prior to 7.6 or not. This will also run on all but the newest PowerMacs (again Off Topic). In fact I think it runs on everything but G3 systems, the 128 and 512, but won't guarentee it. So while this has been a primarily off-topic message, I figure it's of interest to enough people to post. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 5 20:40:11 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: FS: M868, M8650 In-Reply-To: <199902060145.TAA15463@thorin.cs.umn.edu> (message from Lawrence LeMay on Fri, 5 Feb 1999 19:45:12 -0600 (CST)) References: <199902060145.TAA15463@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <19990206024011.20901.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > Seems rather pricey to me. Now if I could get the M8655 for this price... Lawrence LeMay wrote: > How about a M7856 ? Nope, can't use it. It won't work in my PDP-8/e. But you can get it for $345 from DIGITAL Assisted Services. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Feb 5 20:47:49 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001be517b$152f4800$0af438cb@a.davie> > > I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat > > the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone In the games machines world, I cringe when people call computer cartridges "tapes". This comes, I think, from the era when carts (eg: Exidy Sorcerer) came in modified 8-track tape boxes. Anybody care to discuss the history of the usage of "cartridge/tape"? Another one... when people say they're "machine code programmers"... they really mean they're "assembly language programmers". Front-panel users excluded, there are very very few machine code programmers out there still keying/toggling in 1s and 0s :) A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Feb 5 21:03:08 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions Message-ID: <002601be517d$3bba9cc0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do (some of us can manage both;) Francois >A classic misconception, fostered by humans... When your bill is wrong, >your bank >account balance screwed up, your paycheck short.. They say IT WAS A >COMPUTER ERROR! > > Will > > >Max Eskin wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat >> the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas >> for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I >> have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the >> PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) >> >> --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > From ai705 at osfn.org Fri Feb 5 22:00:22 1999 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: OT: Free System 7.5.3 for Mac's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > [2] Mac OS 7.5.3 Posted for Free Downloading > It has been available since the beginning of the week. This is not the old 7.5.3 "update" but a brand new series of 19 disk images that are a full install. > (Apple recommends that all users who install System 7.5.3 to also load > the System 7.5.5 update.) > Highly recommended as... > I don't remember if 7.5.5 is the last version prior to 7.6 or not. This Yes it is. > think it runs on everything but G3 systems, the 128 and 512, but won't The answer again is yes, though there may be a semi-recent model with a quirk. As to the low end, assume 2MB minimum and there is not a whole lot of breathing room at that number. 68000 processor or up, so yes, even a Mac Plus or SE > > So while this has been a primarily off-topic message, I figure it's of > interest to enough people to post. > As well this probably: * Last Chance To Download Free Nisus Writer 4.1.6 Charles W. Moore -- 2 February 1999, at 9:40 p.m. http://www.mactimes.com/bin/news/index.pl?read=957 If you have a Mac, classic or not, and it isn't your primary computer, you might be loathe to pay big money for demonstration programs. If you have a modem on that Mac or a way to download and transfer, then this may be your answer. Nisus is up to version 5 something and they are using the earlier one as a promo. I don't remember the minimum requirements but it may be a 68020. -- Steve From ai705 at osfn.org Fri Feb 5 22:18:37 1999 From: ai705 at osfn.org (Stephen Dauphin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: OT: Free System 7.5.3 for Mac's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Stephen Dauphin wrote: > On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > [2] Mac OS 7.5.3 Posted for Free Downloading > > > > It has been available since the beginning of the week. This is not the > old 7.5.3 "update" but a brand new series of 19 disk images that are a > full install. > Bad form to reply to one's own post but even worse for to talk about a download and not indicate a location. It is available from the usual Apple locations including: ftp://ftp.apple.com/ However, let me lobby for far better site: http://mirror.apple.com/ Pretty much all the software updates are there, there are mirrors of a couple minor Mac sites and there are also mirrors of UMich and InfoMac. For those who are not Mac centric it makes a good one-stop site. For those who are, it also works well. Never busy. There are web and ftp entrances, and there is a search engine. The UMich section is especially interesting. Umich is now moribund as there are really no new submissions at this point. The Mac has fallen so out of favor with shareware/freeware developers that InfoMac (now hosted at MIT) can handle everything. What makes the Apple mirror of UMich unique, is the fact that they tended to not drop an old program as they synced up with the actual UMich directory. If you compare the two, they are quite a bit different. This is especially useful for people looking for older Mac shareware/freeware needed to run on a 68000. --Steve From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 5 23:04:18 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a fairly modern laptop. Does anybody recognize the make or model? http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/ufo/woodlap.jpg It looks somehwat NEC-ish, but might just be a random Taiwanese clone. And that nifty blue screen effect? Tediously painted by hand. Is there software out there that can make a pretty good guess at separating foreground and background? I'd like to just click on an object in a complex pic, and paste that object into a new pic. -- Doug From dragon at panix.com Sat Feb 6 00:03:23 1999 From: dragon at panix.com (Michael Hart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Just about anything IMSAI Message-ID: <001901be5196$68951ea0$fb01a8c0@Interface.braintrust.com> >> Three questions: >> >> Where will you be shipping from? >> >I'm in Denver I am in New Jersey. >> How much do you want? >> >I'd settle for a similar function for the ISA bus. I don't have any ISA cards to give away, so I offer you $10 per card. >What's a slave card? A Slave S-100 card usually have some memory, a CPU and at least a RS-232 connector. What would happend is that when your system started up. Your master CPU on the S-100 bus would load the memory of the slave cards with something, like the slaves own version of CP/M. You could have as many of these things as you box could fit. There were a number of way I/O to the the users of the system could be accumplished. One was route all the slaves I/O to the user throught the the s-100 bus to a I/O card connected to the users terminal. The other and more tipical way what to have each user have their termianl connected to the slaves RS-232 port. The drawback to this method was there had to be a bus master handling all bus traffic to an from I/O devices such as disk drives for each of these slaves since the slaves could not do it themselves. Compupro made a Z80 slave card that supported between 64K and 256K or RAM that had a RS-232 port. If I recall correctly you could only put 8 of these on you bus. But you could hack them to put as many as your bus supported. This is the type of board I am looking for. There was another method of placing multiple CPU on your bus. That basical ment building a Single Board Computer (SBC) that could use the S-100 Temporary Master Access (TMA) hand shaking. The S-100 supported up to 16 of these TMA on a bus. The advantages is the TMA's tended to use the bus more efficiently comparied to slaves boards with requried a bus master present servicing them. I don't know who use to make SBC that fully IEEE 696 standard for TMA access but do know that they were out there. >I have a couple of primitive (as primitive as any S-100 board) SBC's from >whoever made the famous SBC-100 and SBC-200. I have one of each, I think, >and they're in unknown condition, as I inherited them from someone who was >moving away and didn't want to haul them. What an SBC-100 and a SBC-200 do? Keep me in mind should you know of anyone who has IMSAI 8080 system for sale out in your neck of the woods. Michael From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 6 00:39:42 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902052127.NAA01560@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > We can talk about making free energy from magnetism > or a car that runs 2000 miles on a drop of gas. How Well, hate to break this party up but we can probably talk about it on another forum since it seems to have taken on a life of its own. ObCC: Picked up a GRiDCase Plus today. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 6 00:42:15 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat > the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas > for common misconceptions about computers that I should address? So far, I > have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ invent the > PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) Microsoft did _not_ invent _anything_. ;) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From jpero at cgocable.net Sat Feb 6 01:33:50 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199902060731.CAA18281@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:04:18 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Doug To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Laptop ID Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the > modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a > fairly modern laptop. Does anybody recognize the make or model? > http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/ufo/woodlap.jpg > > It looks somehwat NEC-ish, but might just be a random Taiwanese clone. > > And that nifty blue screen effect? Tediously painted by hand. Is there > software out there that can make a pretty good guess at separating > foreground and background? I'd like to just click on an object in a > complex pic, and paste that object into a new pic. > > -- Doug > One thing I could tell is that keyboard looks like partly from zenith guts but I kinda can tell it's not exactly wooden, it's more of computer graphic generated? Jason D. From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 6 01:51:59 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: <199902060731.CAA18281@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 jpero@cgocable.net wrote: > One thing I could tell is that keyboard looks like partly from zenith > guts but I kinda can tell it's not exactly wooden, it's more of > computer graphic generated? The keyboard is just about the only "real" part. It probably looks computer generated because of the jaggies I introduced when transforming my messy workspace background into a blue screen. It's a work of art. I've seen mock-ups before, but not this detailed. Really the only way I could tell it was a fake was from a very small area where the wood is exposed. It looks like somebody tried to pry it open along one of the seams (only to find that it was a single block of wood with fake seams). The hinges really work, the screen is a sheet of dark reflective plastic, the touchpad is another sheet of plastic, the mouse buttons and latches are fixed position, there are fake connectors embedded in it, and carved PCMCIA, port, and battery covers. I've always wanted a wooden laptop to go with my metal GRiDs and acrylic Headlands prototype. If I can find a glass subnote and a stone PDA, I'll be all set.... -- Doug From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 6 02:05:29 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Basis 108 (was: TRW Swap Meet) In-Reply-To: Marvin's message of Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:15:40 -0800 References: <36B3D186.AA4CC342@rain.org> <199902011420.PAA07437@horus.mch.sni.de> <36B5D32C.2737533F@rain.org> Message-ID: <199902060805.AAA03396@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Marvin wrote: > BASIS Incorporated > 5435 Scotts Valley Drive > Scotts Valley CA 95066 > (408) 438-5804 > > This would seem to imply that there should be quite a few more over here > somewhere. Hmm. I'm just flipping through some issues of the First Basis Users Group newsletter, and it looks like Basis in Scotts Valley was out of business by October 1983 (with its inventory being bought by an "investor" and re-sold through a couple of other companies on west and east coasts), and other attempts at establishing a distributorship through other US-based companies met with varying degrees of failure, with the end result being that if you wanted a Basis you had to buy it from Basis in Germany or find a dealer willing to do that for you. And it looks like there was some sort of Basis in Germany into at least 1987 when I run out of newsletters. But yeah, I have one, a friend has one, he had another one when he lived back east, I've seen others go by, and they were very nice machines, superior to Apple ][s in several ways. So I don't think the 108s are that uncommon in the US. A 208, now.... -Frank McConnell From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 6 02:42:41 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Help: Thinker toys Wunderbuss??? In-Reply-To: <01be5165$f2f45c40$f8c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Mike wrote: > It's a homebrew (s-100??? mounted on plywood for chriscakes). Thinker toys > Wunderbuss, 11 slot mb, 2x8" drives, 2x(stringy?)wafer drives, alot of > wirewrap boards... maybe a punchtape/reader :) !!! > > Can anyone give me more/any info on this type of setup?? Sounds like a very cool historic piece. Would make a great centerpiece for a home computer collection because of its homebrew motif. The Wunderbuss was an S-100 bus made by George Morrow (Thinker Toys). I believe it is actively terminated. The 8" drives are in all liklihood Shugarts (SA800), perhaps anchored by a Thinker Toys Disk Jockey interface (guessing, since the system includes the Thinker Toys Wunderbuss). The Stringy floppy drive is the coolest aspect of this machine. It was introduced around 1979 but didn't last very long due to its poor reliability. Make sure you get as many wafers with it as you can as those are rare. I'd be curious to know what the wirewrap boards are. Please post an update when you get your hands on it. Sounds like a cool find. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 6 02:48:56 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <36BB96C1.3D41E0B3@epix.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, John Amirault wrote: > I am still a newbie to this group and the internet. Please answer this > question. What does :) mean? John Amirault If I told you I'd then have to kill you :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 6 02:54:43 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS References: Message-ID: <36BC0353.4EFC56EA@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > The best fix for that is to upgrade to LS-DOS 6.3.1. You can get a disk > image (and the source) from Tim Mann's web site. To get the disk image to > a real disk you can use either xtrs (a trs-80 emulator which uses X) under > linux, or a little program I've written, also for a linux box, that > simply writes disk images to real disks. Let me know if you (or anyone > else) wants the latter. Have you GPL'd your program? If so, pop Tim (and me) a copy of the source -- it can be a pain sometimes to use emulation when all you want to do is cut a floppy. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 6 03:04:15 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions References: <199902052316.RAA15222@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <36BC058F.7A18BB15@cnct.com> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > Max Eskin wrote: > > > So far, I have the places various things originated (i.e. IBM did _not_ > > > invent the PC, Apple did _not_ invent the GUI, etc.) > > > > You missed one of the most important ones: > > > > Microsoft did _not_ invent ANYTHING. > > > > I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever > it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many > other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it, > so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways > to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to > understand". > > BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. Magnificent, isn't it? It _looks_ like valuable debugging information to a non-programmer. In its way it's as beautiful as Jerry Falwell promising that anybody who sends him money will go to Heaven. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 6 03:05:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <000001be517b$152f4800$0af438cb@a.davie> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > In the games machines world, I cringe when people call computer > cartridges "tapes". This comes, I think, from the era when carts (eg: > Exidy Sorcerer) came in modified 8-track tape boxes. Anybody care to > discuss the history of the usage of "cartridge/tape"? Screw that. Anyone want to jump on the bandwagon of my campaign to introduce "carthridge" as the proper spelling for "cartridge" and make the latter an alternate (or better yet obsolete) spelling of the word? No reason, other than "carthridge" sounds better. > Another one... when people say they're "machine code programmers"... they > really mean they're "assembly language programmers". Front-panel users > excluded, there are very very few machine code programmers out there still > keying/toggling in 1s and 0s :) What about hexadecimal? I never coded anything in "assembler". I always just plugged hex bytes into memory addresses through the Apple ][ monitor. I never met an assembler I liked. Of course it sucked when you wanted to insert bytes, but I got by thanks to the memory move feature in the monitor. I still remember all my machine code too. Try this on your Apple ][: ]CALL -151 *300: A0 00 B9 10 03 F0 07 20 ED FD C8 4C 02 03 60 *310: C8 C5 CC CC CF A0 C3 CC C1 D3 D3 C9 C3 C3 CD D0 A0 C4 CF CF C4 D3 00 *300G Off the top of my head. DAMN, I'M GOOD! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 6 03:23:19 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions References: <002601be517d$3bba9cc0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <36BC0A07.2741E6A2@cnct.com> Francois wrote: > > Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you want them to do (some of > us can manage both;) And isn't it great during those rare occasions when they coincide? -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Feb 6 04:49:54 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: <36BC0353.4EFC56EA@cnct.com> Message-ID: <000301be51be$6dd89860$27f438cb@a.davie> Hi guys/gals I have an old IBM motherboard in front of me, and not really sure if it's worth keeping/trading or (gasp) trashing. It's marked "16KB-64KB CPU" on the top, 3 of the 4 banks or RAM are occupied. IBM chips are dated 1981/1982. Otherwise I don't really know what to look for in identifing this. Thanks for any help! A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? From joebar at microsoft.com Sat Feb 6 05:35:09 1999 From: joebar at microsoft.com (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:00 2005 Subject: Wooden Laptops [ Re: Laptop ID ] Message-ID: <0c6c01be51c4$c1217db0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Speaking of wooden laptops... check out http://www.luddite.com/ludditehome/product.html - Joe :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Nev Dull To: /dev/null Sent: Thursday, February 04, 1999 1:05 PM Subject: HTML O' The Day > >http://www.luddite.com/ > ... the finest in custom wooden computing. > From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Sat Feb 6 07:47:13 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? Message-ID: <000c01be51d7$33c7c060$2a3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> >I have an old IBM motherboard in front of me, and not really sure if it's >worth keeping/trading or (gasp) trashing. It's marked "16KB-64KB CPU" on >the top, 3 of the 4 banks or RAM are occupied. IBM chips are dated >1981/1982. Otherwise I don't really know what to look for in identifing >this. Well I'd keep it. Thats the original IBM PC motherboard. The only other question would be which of the first few bios revisions it has. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 6 09:48:45 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Smileys was Re: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS In-Reply-To: <002601be5171$ffe98180$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990206094845.39c74fd0@intellistar.net> Francois, Pretty cool! Joe At 07:42 PM 2/5/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, >Check this site out >http://wwws.enterprise.net/fortknox/emoticon/smiley.html >Francois > >>Sam, >>I am still a newbie to this group and the internet. Please answer this >question. >>What does :) mean? >>John Amirault >> > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 6 09:53:29 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Toshiba 4400 setup Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990206095329.4657d024@intellistar.net> Can anyone tell me how to get into the CMOS setup in a Toshiba 4400? Joe From marvin at rain.org Sat Feb 6 08:25:18 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? References: <000301be51be$6dd89860$27f438cb@a.davie> Message-ID: <36BC50CE.75FB6A9F@rain.org> Andrew Davie wrote: > > Hi guys/gals > I have an old IBM motherboard in front of me, and not really sure if it's > worth keeping/trading or (gasp) trashing. It's marked "16KB-64KB CPU" on > the top, 3 of the 4 banks or RAM are occupied. IBM chips are dated > 1981/1982. Otherwise I don't really know what to look for in identifing > this. I would think it is a keeper. It most likely uses 4116 memory chips with the first bank soldered in and sockets installed for the remaining 3 banks. There was a discussion some time ago, and I think the concensus was the 64KB-256KB are still somewhat common, the 16-64 are not. As kind of an aside, "brand" name items seem to retain their value a bit better than clones, at least from a collecting standpoint. I am seeing this freqently with test equipment, catalogs, and documentation just to name a few. From gene at ehrich.com Sat Feb 6 08:39:50 1999 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Thrift Shops In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990205160331.600f4f38@mail.sinasohn.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990206093837.00981f10@popmail.voicenet.com> At 05:02 PM 2/5/99 -0800, you wrote: >An aside, if anyone is interested in a IIgs, IIe, or Atari 800, please let >me know; there's a thrift shop hereabouts with them. > Does anybody know of any thrift shops in the Philadelphia/South Jersey area that has old computer items? gene@ehrich.com Gene Ehrich From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 6 09:31:59 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Wanted: Just about anything IMSAI Message-ID: <199902061531.AA20109@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >A high-density 3.5" disk does not store 1.44Mbytes (for any reasonable >definition of Mbyte) :-) I guess I skipped the discussion on how many it _does_ store. Could you please give me the capacities of various common disks in bytes? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 6 11:16:47 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Computers of the future will have what appears to be a keyboard on them to be comfortable for old farts like us. They will respond to voice commands, AND to hand gestures. In addition to Chuck's ASL, they will readily support using 8 fingers to input raw ASCII. But, ... when anyone other than the primary user attempts to use them, Windoze 1900 will fail, displaying the woooden screen of death. Actually the whole thing will go wooden, not just the screen! (Based on Microsoft's invention of multitudinous new ways for computers to go dead.) There is some concern that their use of zero-point 3-phase power sources may occasionally cause some of them to move through time, and possibly even end up in pre y2K time periods! Fortunately the "go-wooden" security failure system should be sufficient to prevent anyone finding one from realizing what it really is. (unless they offer it up as a RARE PROTOTYPE on e-bay). Ever have a neighboring passenger on a plane be exceptionally annoying about your laptop? Wooden ones are great for that situation. BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 jpero@cgocable.net wrote: > > > One thing I could tell is that keyboard looks like partly from zenith > > guts but I kinda can tell it's not exactly wooden, it's more of > > computer graphic generated? > > The keyboard is just about the only "real" part. It probably looks > computer generated because of the jaggies I introduced when transforming > my messy workspace background into a blue screen. > > It's a work of art. I've seen mock-ups before, but not this detailed. > Really the only way I could tell it was a fake was from a very small area > where the wood is exposed. It looks like somebody tried to pry it open > along one of the seams (only to find that it was a single block of wood > with fake seams). > > The hinges really work, the screen is a sheet of dark reflective plastic, > the touchpad is another sheet of plastic, the mouse buttons and latches > are fixed position, there are fake connectors embedded in it, and > carved PCMCIA, port, and battery covers. > > I've always wanted a wooden laptop to go with my metal GRiDs and acrylic > Headlands prototype. If I can find a glass subnote and a stone PDA, I'll > be all set.... > > -- Doug From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 6 11:46:16 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: AD:Family Reunion T Shirts & More References: <199902061416.GAA29130@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36BC7FE8.5678ECC9@cnct.com> print4ever@micronet.net wrote: > > Message sent by: Kuppler Graphics, 32 West Main Street, Maple Shade, New Jersey, 08052, > 1-800-810-4330. This is a one time mailing. This list will NOT be sold. All addresses > are automatically added to our remove list. > > Hello. My name is Bill from Kuppler Graphics. We do screenprinting on T Shirts, Sweatshirts, > Jackets, Hats, Tote Bags and more! > > Do you or someone you know have a Family Reunion coming up? Kuppler Graphics would like to > provide you with some great looking T Shirts for your Reunion. > > Kuppler Graphics can also provide you with custom T's and promotional items such as imprinted > magnets, keychains, pens, mugs, hats, etc. for your business or any fundraising activity > (church, school, business etc.) > > We are a family owned company with over 15 years of experience. > > All work is done at this location. No middle man. Our prices are great! > > Please click reply to email us to receive more info or call 1-800-810-4330 > Thanks for your interest Well, I don't usually respond to adverts in my email, but you're fairly local (at least in the same state). I'd be looking for a quote on patches suitable for hats or jackets based on the attached image. T-shirts have already been covered. Estimate 100 patches, I guess 4" diameter. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 6 12:03:41 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Abject apology for spam response Message-ID: <36BC83FD.46843EBE@cnct.com> Sorry about that. Wasn't paying much attention and rather assumed that the advertiser had set the response address to itself. Glad I also neglected to attach the images. (If you want to see them, they're on my home page and no, I didn't create them). OBclassic: anybody got a copy of TRS-edit (a vi clone) for the Radio Shack Color Computer that they're not using? The current GNU equivalents seem to crash my system during the compile, I think that they're too big for a 512k OS-9 system, or else I've got a hardware memory problem -- and the CoCo 3 memory kits are rather hard to find these days. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 6 12:11:39 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating > that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) Well, I used to absolutely hate the stupid things, and refused to use them, until I realized that yes, sometimes people ARE too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke. See? Now I have to use a smiley :) or else somebody will be offended by that last line (hint: learn to read between the lines). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 6 12:55:31 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Toshiba 4400 setup In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990206095329.4657d024@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to get into the CMOS setup in a Toshiba 4400? If something is screwed up, you should be dumped into a setup screen. If you can run DOS, then you need to run TSETUP. You can probably download it from www.toshiba.com if you don't have a copy. -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 6 15:08:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Toshiba 4400 setup In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990206095329.4657d024@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990206150830.308fd5d2@intellistar.net> Doug, It belongs to someone else but he says that there is no setup on the hard drive. I finally found something at Toshiba's website that I think it will work. They call it "Test3" ???? Man, is their site slow and disorganized! Thanks, Joe At 01:55 PM 2/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me how to get into the CMOS setup in a Toshiba 4400? > >If something is screwed up, you should be dumped into a setup screen. If >you can run DOS, then you need to run TSETUP. You can probably download >it from www.toshiba.com if you don't have a copy. > >-- Doug > > From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 6 13:03:50 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Ever have a neighboring passenger on a plane be exceptionally annoying > about your laptop? Wooden ones are great for that situation. Perhaps my wooden laptop is a decoy! An anti-theft device for a real laptop. -- Doug From mbg at world.std.com Sat Feb 6 14:51:56 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Abject apology for spam response Message-ID: <199902062051.AA20373@world.std.com> >Sorry about that. Wasn't paying much attention and rather assumed >that the advertiser had set the response address to itself. Glad I >also neglected to attach the images. (If you want to see them, >they're on my home page and no, I didn't create them). The guy was a spammer... the only way to stop them is to make them hurt by NOT giving them any business... I know I won't... I don't do business with ANYONE who spams, even if I were otherwise in need of their service... Megan From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Feb 6 15:05:27 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID Message-ID: <001e01be5214$87bd3460$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hi, This gives a new meaning to the term LOG IN. Ok i'll add the :) just to be sure that nobody ask me how I can Log in into a wooden laptop (: By the way did you get the docking station with it? Francois >I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the >modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a >-- Doug > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 6 13:55:43 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 5, 99 05:04:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 816 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990206/a82c6120/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 6 13:59:59 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: photographing olf computers/parts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990205205452.00917a40@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 5, 99 08:54:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 552 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990206/5bd1a8d2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 6 14:04:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <000001be517b$152f4800$0af438cb@a.davie> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 6, 99 01:47:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990206/ef6d4f73/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 6 14:16:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: <000301be51be$6dd89860$27f438cb@a.davie> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 6, 99 09:49:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 627 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990206/b6df86e7/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 6 15:28:52 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID References: <001e01be5214$87bd3460$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <36BCB414.486263EE@cnct.com> Francois wrote: > > Hi, > This gives a new meaning to the term LOG IN. > Ok i'll add the :) just to be sure that nobody ask me how I can Log in into > a wooden laptop (: > By the way did you get the docking station with it? > Francois > > >I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the > >modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a I wouldn't feel any need to log in to a wooden computer. I'd just politely axe for permission to enter. -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Feb 6 15:19:33 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301be5216$63d4c840$0ef438cb@a.davie> ALL RAM is socketed (in reply to an earlier post). The RAM is marked MOSTEK MK4116N-44GP. There are two circular 5-pin sockets near the power connector at the back. Thanks, everyone, for the help. I'll keep it safe somewhere. A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? ? > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 1999 7:17 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Trash or Treasure? > > > > > > Hi guys/gals > > I have an old IBM motherboard in front of me, and not really > sure if it's > > worth keeping/trading or (gasp) trashing. It's marked > "16KB-64KB CPU" on > > the top, 3 of the 4 banks or RAM are occupied. IBM chips are dated > > 1981/1982. Otherwise I don't really know what to look for in identifing > > this. > > That sounds like the original IBM PC motherboard. To confim this, there > should be 2 DIN sockets at the back near the power connector. And the > RAMs should be 4116s or equivalent. > > If I'm right, then IMHO you should keep it. The later version (64K-256K > using 4164 RAMs) is a lot more common. > > -tony > > From amirault at epix.net Sat Feb 6 15:42:33 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID References: Message-ID: <36BCB749.8ADCFED@epix.net> Grumpy Ol' Fred, Thanks for answering my question to Sam. I will make sure I do not use " : ) " in my messages. I was WAY off base in my guess. Bye for now and have a nice day, John Amirault Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Computers of the future will have what appears to be a keyboard on them to > be comfortable for old farts like us. They will respond to voice > commands, AND to hand gestures. In addition to Chuck's ASL, they > will readily support using 8 fingers to input raw ASCII. > > But, ... when anyone other than the primary user attempts to use them, > Windoze 1900 will fail, displaying the woooden screen of death. Actually > the whole thing will go wooden, not just the screen! (Based on > Microsoft's invention of multitudinous new ways for computers to go dead.) > > There is some concern that their use of zero-point 3-phase power sources > may occasionally cause some of them to move through time, and possibly > even end up in pre y2K time periods! Fortunately the "go-wooden" security > failure system should be sufficient to prevent anyone finding one from > realizing what it really is. (unless they offer it up as a RARE PROTOTYPE > on e-bay). > > Ever have a neighboring passenger on a plane be exceptionally annoying > about your laptop? Wooden ones are great for that situation. > > BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating > that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred > > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > > > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 jpero@cgocable.net wrote: > > > > > One thing I could tell is that keyboard looks like partly from zenith > > > guts but I kinda can tell it's not exactly wooden, it's more of > > > computer graphic generated? > > > > The keyboard is just about the only "real" part. It probably looks > > computer generated because of the jaggies I introduced when transforming > > my messy workspace background into a blue screen. > > > > It's a work of art. I've seen mock-ups before, but not this detailed. > > Really the only way I could tell it was a fake was from a very small area > > where the wood is exposed. It looks like somebody tried to pry it open > > along one of the seams (only to find that it was a single block of wood > > with fake seams). > > > > The hinges really work, the screen is a sheet of dark reflective plastic, > > the touchpad is another sheet of plastic, the mouse buttons and latches > > are fixed position, there are fake connectors embedded in it, and > > carved PCMCIA, port, and battery covers. > > > > I've always wanted a wooden laptop to go with my metal GRiDs and acrylic > > Headlands prototype. If I can find a glass subnote and a stone PDA, I'll > > be all set.... > > > > -- Doug From amirault at epix.net Sat Feb 6 15:47:14 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID References: Message-ID: <36BCB862.B396896D@epix.net> Sam, I read Grumpy's message first and answered it before reading this message. This will teach me to read ALL my mail before answering any of it. I like your answer better than Grumpy's. BTW GRUMPY the question WAS directed to SAM. Sam I thought it was a Smiley face. Have a nice day, John Amirault Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating > > that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) > > Well, I used to absolutely hate the stupid things, and refused to use > them, until I realized that yes, sometimes people ARE too stupid to know > what is or isn't a joke. See? Now I have to use a smiley :) or else > somebody will be offended by that last line (hint: learn to read between > the lines). > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From marvin at rain.org Sat Feb 6 16:03:14 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID References: Message-ID: <36BCBC22.696D92EC@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating > > that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) > > Well, I used to absolutely hate the stupid things, and refused to use > them, until I realized that yes, sometimes people ARE too stupid to know > what is or isn't a joke. See? Now I have to use a smiley :) or else Quite a number of years ago, I made a statement that would have been obviously said tongue in cheek to anyone who had been following the discussion. A flame war was the result even though I said numerous times the smilely had been left off the statement. Of course having grown a bit wiser (and probably more opinionated if that is possible), I would welcome the flame war :). From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Feb 6 16:22:08 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Ridiculous Osborne Revisited Message-ID: <36BCC08E.A3AFC1C1@bigfoot.com> Seems the bidders are losing interest, not to mention he's changed the title of it where it doesn't reflect the word Osborne (so a search doesn't show it). There's less than 8 hrs on it and the high bid is $12.... The guy that did the high bid last time (Imsai) bought my Kaypro 2X and I asked him if the seller made a deal with him since it came below the "reserve" and believe it or not the dummy seller let a $400 bid slide. It's listed on e-pay right now as http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62164945 in case anyone has any interest. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 6 16:56:03 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Toshiba 4400 setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101be5223$df123d00$c2afadce@5x86jk> You can also get in by just holding down the ESC key while turning on the computer. John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Doug > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 12:56 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Toshiba 4400 setup > > > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me how to get into the CMOS setup in a Toshiba 4400? > > If something is screwed up, you should be dumped into a setup screen. If > you can run DOS, then you need to run TSETUP. You can probably download > it from www.toshiba.com if you don't have a copy. > > -- Doug > > From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 6 17:02:42 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: <36BCB414.486263EE@cnct.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Francois wrote: > > > > Hi, > > This gives a new meaning to the term LOG IN. > > Ok i'll add the :) just to be sure that nobody ask me how I can Log in into > > a wooden laptop (: > > By the way did you get the docking station with it? > > Francois > > > > >I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the > > >modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a > > I wouldn't feel any need to log in to a wooden computer. I'd just > politely axe for permission to enter. But, only if you saw it first. - don > -- > Ward Griffiths > > WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, > and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Feb 6 22:18:11 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID Message-ID: <01be5250$df950820$cb8ea6d1@thegener> Actually, I though ":)" meant that the person typing was smiling when they when they wrote it. >> BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating >> that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 6 20:40:13 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: <36BCB749.8ADCFED@epix.net> Message-ID: Not to worry. Notice that there was a ":-)" (AKA "emoticon", AKA "stupid smiley face") at the end of my message. The part about it being rude or nasty or insulting was no more nor less serious than the speculation that the wooden laptop was sent back from the future. Decide or yourself how seriously to take THAT hypothesis. Feel free to use them as necessary. If Jonathon Swift were to have used them in "Gulliver's Travels", then perhaps more people would understand that it was an attack on current politics and society, not a children's tale. Great comic writers, such as Douglas Adams, manage to convey the concept of what is to be taken seriously without using them; the rest of us need them on occasion. Particularly anyone dumb enough to try to write something funny within 24 hours of a root-canal. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, John Amirault wrote: > Grumpy Ol' Fred, > Thanks for answering my question to Sam. I will make sure I do not use " : ) " > in my messages. I was WAY off base in my guess. > Bye for now and have a nice day, > John Amirault > > Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > Computers of the future will have what appears to be a keyboard on them to > > be comfortable for old farts like us. They will respond to voice > > commands, AND to hand gestures. In addition to Chuck's ASL, they > > will readily support using 8 fingers to input raw ASCII. > > > > But, ... when anyone other than the primary user attempts to use them, > > Windoze 1900 will fail, displaying the woooden screen of death. Actually > > the whole thing will go wooden, not just the screen! (Based on > > Microsoft's invention of multitudinous new ways for computers to go dead.) > > > > There is some concern that their use of zero-point 3-phase power sources > > may occasionally cause some of them to move through time, and possibly > > even end up in pre y2K time periods! Fortunately the "go-wooden" security > > failure system should be sufficient to prevent anyone finding one from > > realizing what it really is. (unless they offer it up as a RARE PROTOTYPE > > on e-bay). > > > > Ever have a neighboring passenger on a plane be exceptionally annoying > > about your laptop? Wooden ones are great for that situation. > > > > BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating > > that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 7 00:08:41 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Emoticons (was Re: Laptop ID) In-Reply-To: (cisin@xenosoft.com) References: Message-ID: <19990207060841.25434.qmail@brouhaha.com> Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote: > Great comic writers, such as Douglas Adams, manage to convey the > concept of what is to be taken seriously without using them; Aside from _Last_Chance_to_See_, has Douglas Adams written anything intended to be taken seriously? Maybe I missed something. I need an Electric Monk. I think it's Adams' best invention [*]. Just the thing for dealing with telemarketers. As long as the Electric Monk doesn't have by Visa number. Eric [*] The S.E.P. field generator is a very close second. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Feb 7 04:42:27 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: 8-bit IDE (was Re: new toy!) In-Reply-To: <199902021911.OAA09456@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Commodore used the 8-bit IDE stuff in their Colts (XT clones) and the > A590/A291 SCSI interfaces for A500 and Zorro-II (no doubt because of Jack > Tameil's infamous penchant for forcing engineers to design in whatever > surplus hardware was lying around the warehouse). I don't know about the Colts, but Jack Tramiel was long gone by the time of the A590 and A2091. He left Commodore in January 1984. > -ethan -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Feb 7 05:01:41 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <0025670D.003FA759.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk wrote: > ISO Latin on a classic computer? Pull the other one! Amiga 1000, Amiga 500, Amiga 2000, to name but three. > Philip. -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From rackland at intekom.co.za Sun Feb 7 11:21:26 1999 From: rackland at intekom.co.za (royston hill) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <36BDCB96.1B4F11D8@intekom.co.za> Hi ,can you assist .we have a old 386 with a conner 80 meg HD .We needed to clean same and used the zero fill from disk manager on boot up. we got message NO ROM BASIC >SYSTEM HALTED we cannot find anything on this error message.or what we did wrong ?????? regards from africa ROY HILL From hansp at digiweb.com Sun Feb 7 10:45:34 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: no rom basic References: <36BDCB96.1B4F11D8@intekom.co.za> Message-ID: <36BDC32E.F638F8C4@digiweb.com> royston hill wrote: > > Hi ,can you assist .we have a old 386 with a conner 80 meg HD .We needed > to clean same and used the zero fill from disk manager on boot up. we > got message NO ROM BASIC >SYSTEM HALTED we cannot find anything on this > error message.or what we did wrong ?????? regards from africa ROY HILL Sounds like you wiped the OS from the hard disk and are thus unable to boot form it. You need to boot form a floppy, use FDISK to establish a partition on the hard disk and then format it. Good luck, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 7 10:52:04 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <19990207170822789.AAA162@fuj04> what the message you're seeing says is that you may have forgotten to activate the partition, which you must do in all cases where you don't use the "entire drive" in your primary partition. try that, and see if it doesn't fix your problem. Dick ---------- > From: royston hill > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: no rom basic > Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 10:21 AM > > Hi ,can you assist .we have a old 386 with a conner 80 meg HD .We needed > to clean same and used the zero fill from disk manager on boot up. we > got message NO ROM BASIC >SYSTEM HALTED we cannot find anything on this > error message.or what we did wrong ?????? regards from africa ROY HILL From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 7 10:59:02 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Laptop ID Message-ID: <5f8e08a9.36bdc656@aol.com> In a message dated 99-02-06 19:56:01 EST, you write: << On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Francois wrote: > > > > Hi, > > This gives a new meaning to the term LOG IN. > > Ok i'll add the :) just to be sure that nobody ask me how I can Log in into > > a wooden laptop (: > > By the way did you get the docking station with it? > > Francois > > > > >I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the > > >modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a > > I wouldn't feel any need to log in to a wooden computer. I'd just > politely axe for permission to enter. But, only if you saw it first. - don >> let's just hope you can login as root. From aknight at mindspring.com Sun Feb 7 10:29:35 1999 From: aknight at mindspring.com (Alex Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Museum of HP calcs CD-ROM shipping ... In-Reply-To: <199902030213.VAA00836@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990207112935.0075bf00@pop.cphl.mindspring.com> Hi, Thought I'd let ya'll know that Dave Hicks is now shipping his "Museum of HP Calculators" CD-ROM set. This is a two-disk set that has the entire contents of his Web site, plus 40 Meg of so of additional high-resolution images, copies of the manuals for nearly all the HP calculators that are featured in the Museum, and copies of many of the program manuals for HP's programmable calculators. The manuals are in Acrobat PDF format. It is also worth noting that Dave secured permission from HP to re-publish these manuals, so the CD-ROMs have copyright notices for both Dave's original stuff and the HP manuals. I know that several of those on the list are interested in the HP9100 & HP98xx series machines - I provided Dave the scans of the HP9100, HP9810, HP9815, and HP9830 operating manuals, and the manuals for three of the common 9830 ROM modules. Someone else provided the HP9820 manual and some HP9100 programs. There's a bunch of HP-41 stuff in the set, and some HP-71B stuff, too I think. Dave tells me that the total content of the set is around 900 Megabytes, and he's charging $25 plus shipping for the set. You can get a complete listing of what's contained on the CD-ROMs, and ordering instructions, from Dave's web site at http://www.hpmuseum.org Given that an original HP9100 manual alone sold for over $60 on eBay recently, I think this set is a real bargain for those who are primarily interested in the information in the manuals. Regards, Alex Calculator History & Technology Archive Web Page http://aknight.home.mindspring.com/calc.htm From joe at barrera.org Sun Feb 7 12:01:57 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Ridiculous Osborne Revisited Message-ID: <025201be52c3$f555bdd0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> >The guy that did the high bid last time (Imsai) bought my Kaypro 2X and >I asked him if the seller made a deal with him since it came below the >"reserve" and believe it or not the dummy seller let a $400 bid slide. Hi Russ ("alice"), Well, once again I high bid on the thing -- this time it closed at $51.01 -- hey, if this keeps up, maybe after three more auctions, he'll give up and let me (as high bidder) get it for $17.38... :-) - Joe ("imsai") From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Feb 7 12:24:33 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: no rom basic In-Reply-To: <36BDCB96.1B4F11D8@intekom.co.za> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990207102433.00d177a0@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:21 PM 2/7/99 +0100, you wrote: >Hi ,can you assist .we have a old 386 with a conner 80 meg HD .We needed >to clean same and used the zero fill from disk manager on boot up. we >got message NO ROM BASIC >SYSTEM HALTED we cannot find anything on this >error message.or what we did wrong ?????? regards from africa ROY HILL What this means is that you have a clone system that cloned the original IBM BIOS a bit too well. The original IBM PC had a BASIC intrepreter in the ROMs and if the boot from disk failed, (or no drives were installed) the system would drop out into the ROM based BASIC. Many of the early clone systems copied the IBM BIOS rather exactly, but without the ROM based version of Microsoft BASIC included. So, when the disk boot code times out, it looks for the BASIC ROMs, and when it does not find them displays this message and halts the processor. Looks like you need to do a ground up reinstall of your OS into the hard drive. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From museum at techniche.com Sun Feb 7 12:54:31 1999 From: museum at techniche.com (Jon Healey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Kennedy tape drive part Message-ID: <199902071854.NAA16646@chmls06.mediaone.net> Sam, Got 'em. Reply with your mailing address OK? Jon ====================================== >On Sat, 30 Jan 1999, Jon Healey wrote: > >> If anyone wants me to pick up any let me know. >> >> They're 50 cents apiece plus shipping, which shouldn't >> be much. >> >> There were quite a few so I don't think that supply is a >> problem. >> >> Let me know soon. > >Sure, send me a dozen. Thanks. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Always being hassled by the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 7 13:47:42 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: no rom basic In-Reply-To: <36BDCB96.1B4F11D8@intekom.co.za> Message-ID: <4.1.19990207114414.00a8a810@mcmanis.com> Given the age of this computer I would check to see that the lithium battery is ok. The computer is not seeing your hard drive as a bootable device, the most common reason for this (after someone accidently formatting it) is that the CMOS ram has lost its contents due to battery failure. There shouls be a floppy labelled "SETUP" that came with the computer that can be used to determine whether or not the hard disk parameters are correct or not. If they are not you will have to re-enter them. Once they are re-entered, try rebooting. If the system comes up normally then you will need to get a new battery. --Chuck At 06:21 PM 2/7/99 +0100, royston hill wrote: >Hi ,can you assist .we have a old 386 with a conner 80 meg HD .We needed >to clean same and used the zero fill from disk manager on boot up. we >got message NO ROM BASIC >SYSTEM HALTED we cannot find anything on this >error message.or what we did wrong ?????? regards from africa ROY HILL > From jlwest at tseinc.com Sun Feb 7 14:09:53 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals Message-ID: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Ok, I've finally gotten around to attempting to scan a lot of the classic computer documentation that I have. However, I have run into a problem perhaps some here could shed some light on... Whenever I scan a page from a manual, the scanned image on the screen looks horrible. However, when I print it out it is absolutely perfect. Yes, I've tried zooming in on the image on screen, it is unreadable still. One more twist is that if I send the image to my OCR software, it turns it into text with almost perfect accuracy. My scan settings are Line Art at 300dpi. My scanner is legal size, a scanport 2400 and the application software is Uload Photoimpact SE. My printer is an HP deskjet 820cse, and the video card in my system is a Diamond speedstar A50 w/8mb ram. Since the scanned document looks bad even when still in the scanmodule driver (before getting passed to the graphics application), I don't think photoimpact has anything to do with it. I wanted to put some of the scanned documents up on the web, but since they look horrible on screen I'm not sure how to proceed. Of course, they can be downloaded and printed and look great, but... I have downloaded old dec documentation that looked fine onscreen and printed fine too. Any suggestions? What am I doing wrong? Jay West From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sun Feb 7 14:18:26 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals References: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <36BDF512.8B76C164@sprint.ca> Jay, There should be a setting in the scanning software which changes the settings for the scanner. What you are looking for is a 'descreen' setting to remove the moire from the scanned page. There are other settings for 'art print' and so on and you might want to experiment to see what looks best. I use Umax software and hardware but yours should be something the same. Good luck! Jay West wrote: > I wanted to put some of the scanned documents up on the web, but since they > look horrible on screen I'm not sure how to proceed. Of course, they can be > downloaded and printed and look great, but... I have downloaded old dec > documentation that looked fine onscreen and printed fine too. > > Any suggestions? What am I doing wrong? > > Jay West -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Feb 7 17:28:03 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals Message-ID: <01be52f1$8221c600$d08ea6d1@thegener> Try setting the scanner on either grayscale or monochrome, 150-200dpi. This is what I use when scanning any tyoe of documnentation. I have an Artec 4800dpi scanner. -Jason -----Original Message----- From: Jay West To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 12:14 PM Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals >Ok, I've finally gotten around to attempting to scan a lot of the classic >computer documentation that I have. However, I have run into a problem >perhaps some here could shed some light on... > >Whenever I scan a page from a manual, the scanned image on the screen looks >horrible. However, when I print it out it is absolutely perfect. Yes, I've >tried zooming in on the image on screen, it is unreadable still. One more >twist is that if I send the image to my OCR software, it turns it into text >with almost perfect accuracy. My scan settings are Line Art at 300dpi. > >My scanner is legal size, a scanport 2400 and the application software is >Uload Photoimpact SE. My printer is an HP deskjet 820cse, and the video card >in my system is a Diamond speedstar A50 w/8mb ram. Since the scanned >document looks bad even when still in the scanmodule driver (before getting >passed to the graphics application), I don't think photoimpact has anything >to do with it. > >I wanted to put some of the scanned documents up on the web, but since they >look horrible on screen I'm not sure how to proceed. Of course, they can be >downloaded and printed and look great, but... I have downloaded old dec >documentation that looked fine onscreen and printed fine too. > >Any suggestions? What am I doing wrong? > >Jay West > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 7 15:02:16 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals In-Reply-To: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> (jlwest@tseinc.com) References: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <19990207210216.28164.qmail@brouhaha.com> Jay West wrote: > Whenever I scan a page from a manual, the scanned image on the screen looks > horrible. However, when I print it out it is absolutely perfect. Yes, I've > tried zooming in on the image on screen, it is unreadable still. It sounds like the software that you are using to display the scanned images is seriously deficient. The scanned image is apparently OK. There are several ways to scale down the image for display. They range from requiring almost no computation at all, but displaying a really horrible picture, to taking a lot of computation but looking beautiful. The simplest approach is that if you want to display a 1/4 scale image, you throw away 3 out of every 4 pixels, both vertically and horizontally, for a total of 15 of every 16. This approach yields very poor results, but some programs that are designed to deal with photographic images actually do this, because even though it is not that good for photographs either, it is not as bad as with text and line art. This approach is even worse if you don't want to do scaling by an integral amount. For instance, if the program decides that it needs to display every 3.5th pixel, it will skip 2, display 1, skip 3, display 1, etc. This yields even worse aliasing than skipping a constant number of pixels. There are two approaches that yield much better results. One is the use of greyscale. In the 1/4 scale example, instead of throwing away 15 pixels out of 16, you count the number of pixels that were black. Let's say there are 6. You make the resulting pixel 6/16 black. This is not too computationally intensive, but it can have some of the same problems if you use non-integral scale factors. The "correct" approach is to run the image through a low-pass filter before scaling it down. This is much more computationally intensive than the other approaches, but it yields excellent results in grey scale, and quite good results in bilevel, even for non-integral scale factors. I normally use the "xv" program under Linux to view images, and it appears to use the filtering approach. On my Pentium Pro 150, it takes about six seconds for it to filter the page. I think the code in xv is not very highly optimized (and I'm not talking about the compiler), because I've seen other applications that do the same thing but don't take nearly as long. For instance, Acrobat Reader on the same machine takes only about two seconds. Cheers, Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 7 15:03:40 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals In-Reply-To: <36BDF512.8B76C164@sprint.ca> (message from Brian Mahoney on Sun, 07 Feb 1999 13:18:26 -0700) References: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> <36BDF512.8B76C164@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <19990207210340.28171.qmail@brouhaha.com> Brian Mahoney : > There should be a setting in the scanning software which changes the settings > for the scanner. What you are looking for is a 'descreen' setting to remove > the moire from the scanned page. If the scanned image looks correct when printed, I don't think that is the problem. From svs at ropnet.ru Sun Feb 7 15:22:47 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <199902031330.OAA28260@horus.mch.sni.de>; from Hans Franke on Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 02:30:10PM +0000 References: <36B5ED61.68AFC035@bigfoot.com> <199902031330.OAA28260@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <19990208002247.21348@firepower> On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 02:30:10PM +0000, Hans Franke wrote: > (Did you know that there is also a kind of > cyrillic (russian) ASCII, where they not only replaced a few > symbols, but rather the whole alpha chars (and some additional, > since they have more letters). If any of you are going to read Russian and/or deal with Soviet/Russian computers, should be on your reading list. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Feb 7 16:03:43 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990207150342.006caf34@cadvision.com> Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last a long time! :v) . For example, should I allow the tubes to warm up for a few minutes before playing, and are there any special precautions I should follow after playing (i.e. do I need a cool-down period before powering down?). Any advice would be much appreciated. A quick Web- search didn't reveal much except prices on used equipment. Thanks! Mark. From nfields at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 7 15:53:17 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:01 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals References: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <36BE0B4D.68304634@ix.netcom.com> Its probably cuz your scanning as line art. I found the same problem using that setting, and if I put it back to a "normal" scanning setup, it worked MUCH better. Noel Jay West wrote: > Ok, I've finally gotten around to attempting to scan a lot of the classic > computer documentation that I have. However, I have run into a problem > perhaps some here could shed some light on... > > Whenever I scan a page from a manual, the scanned image on the screen looks > horrible. However, when I print it out it is absolutely perfect. Yes, I've > tried zooming in on the image on screen, it is unreadable still. One more > twist is that if I send the image to my OCR software, it turns it into text > with almost perfect accuracy. My scan settings are Line Art at 300dpi. > > My scanner is legal size, a scanport 2400 and the application software is > Uload Photoimpact SE. My printer is an HP deskjet 820cse, and the video card > in my system is a Diamond speedstar A50 w/8mb ram. Since the scanned > document looks bad even when still in the scanmodule driver (before getting > passed to the graphics application), I don't think photoimpact has anything > to do with it. > > I wanted to put some of the scanned documents up on the web, but since they > look horrible on screen I'm not sure how to proceed. Of course, they can be > downloaded and printed and look great, but... I have downloaded old dec > documentation that looked fine onscreen and printed fine too. > > Any suggestions? What am I doing wrong? > > Jay West From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Sun Feb 7 16:48:10 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Abject apology for spam response In-Reply-To: <36BC83FD.46843EBE@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Feb 6, 99 01:03:41 pm Message-ID: <199902072248.OAA17980@saul9.u.washington.edu> > Sorry about that. Wasn't paying much attention and rather assumed > that the advertiser had set the response address to itself. Glad I > also neglected to attach the images. (If you want to see them, > they're on my home page and no, I didn't create them). Not only that -- The original spam was incorrectly set up (i.e., the addresses weren't set up in the way you expected), but your reply was correctly set up (i.e., your return address was apparently not legal). Obviously, that's good because the spammer then couldn't send you more spam. But it's also bad because the snotty message I tried to send you bounced. How neat and tidy. :) -- Derek From fpp at concentric.net Sun Feb 7 17:46:08 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (F. Paul Passmore III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <01BE52B0.FBEA2360@ts026d25.lax-ca.concentric.net> Hi, Just a few possibilities. Some hard drives will cause the above message if the 0 track has been altered (written over) linux is well know for this and the only way I know to resolve this is to low level format the drive. A lot of 386 and early 486 Award BIOS machines have an option of hard drive utility. If you do you're all set. I chose a 3 for the interleave value. Try and boot the computer from the floppy, then run fdisk to see if you can reset the hd. Check to see if any of the jumpers are missing from the pcboard part of the drive. Try typing the drive manufacture and model in Alta-Vista and see if the specs come up. That usually works for me. If you have no set-up disk..... try the following on boot to get to the setup up Menu. 1) Hit CTRL+ALT+S or 2) Hit CTRL+ESCP or 3) Hit DEL Paul At 06:21 PM 2/7/99 +0100, royston hill wrote: >Hi ,can you assist .we have a old 386 with a conner 80 meg HD .We needed >to clean same and used the zero fill from disk manager on boot up. we >got message NO ROM BASIC >SYSTEM HALTED we cannot find anything on this >error message.or what we did wrong ?????? regards from africa ROY HILL > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990207/c24adb20/attachment.bin From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Feb 7 17:56:11 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals In-Reply-To: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990207155611.00919a70@agora.rdrop.com> At 02:09 PM 2/7/99 -0600, you wrote: >Ok, I've finally gotten around to attempting to scan a lot of the classic >computer documentation that I have. However, I have run into a problem >perhaps some here could shed some light on... > >Whenever I scan a page from a manual, the scanned image on the screen looks >horrible. However, when I print it out it is absolutely perfect. ... My scan settings are Line Art at 300dpi. > >I wanted to put some of the scanned documents up on the web, but since they >look horrible on screen I'm not sure how to proceed. Of course, they can be >downloaded and printed and look great, but... I have downloaded old dec >documentation that looked fine onscreen and printed fine too. > >Any suggestions? What am I doing wrong? Screens are apx. 72 dots per inch. When the browser tries to interpolate your 300dpi scans, it all goes to heck! (ruled by that guy with the spoon from 'Dilbert') If you want something that will display half way decent in a browser, you will need to rescan them at around 72dpi. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jpero at cgocable.net Sun Feb 7 18:03:50 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: no rom basic In-Reply-To: <01BE52B0.FBEA2360@ts026d25.lax-ca.concentric.net> Message-ID: <199902080001.TAA27013@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 15:46:08 -0800 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "F. Paul Passmore III" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RE: no rom basic Originally to: "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" > > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE52B0.FBF34B20 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi, > Just a few possibilities.=20 > > Some hard drives will cause the above message if the 0 track has been = > altered (written over) linux is well know for this and the only way I = > know to resolve this is to low level format the drive. A lot of 386 and = > early 486 Award BIOS machines have an option of hard drive utility. If = > you do you're all set. I chose a 3 for the interleave value. Do NOT EVER dump that junk on mailing list, Paul E. Passmore III! Some don't have capacity to read or are paying per call or time online. Please just text email, if you want to someone to have a software point it where everybody can download it off the 'net. And please don't take this word that Paul suggested to LLF a modern hd to fix like this! Do: Boot up with DOS bootable disk complete with: fdisk, format, edit/qbasic set and sys. startup fdisk to delete all the old partitions, put new parititon as needed, make it active if needed and let it write to hd. It will next reboot the machine itself. That step 1 done, next step 2 is to format it by: format c:/u/s. If it doesn't boot up by itself on the HD, do this: boot with disk again, do fdisk /mbr still dead, try sys c: This process works very well on IDE drives and I have changed Linux in and out for another OSes easily. MFM, RLL, ESDI drives needs to be LLF'ed to work properly when marrying a "stranger" to a controller card for first time. SCSI and IDE very rarely requires LLF. Jason D. From wpe101 at banet.net Sun Feb 7 19:12:43 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? References: <3.0.32.19990207150342.006caf34@cadvision.com> Message-ID: <36BE3A0B.A7D1FB64@banet.net> My $0.02 worth, You'll have to give it a little time to "warm up" (won't work until it does). As far as "cool down", it won't, until you shut the power off. Vacuum tubes use a filament (similar to that in a light bulb) to heat them up so that they will operate (so DON'T block any of the ventilation holes, or you risk disaster). Two suggestions. 1: Check the back of the unit, and see if it has a tube listing, or check each tube for it's type (will usually be an alphanumeric, example: 12BE6). 2. See if you can locate a supply of replacement tubes. At last check (couple of years ago), Radio Shack would special order 'em, allow weeks for delivery, so, I suggest checking Ham Radio swapmeets and flea markets. Optional: See if you can get your hands on a "Tube Tester". They used to be in drug stores everywhere, now they're kind of tough to find. Be advised that tubes tend to have (or did tend to have) a higher tendancy to fail, than solid state devices. I think I've got a tube substitution guide around here somewhere for RCA tubes.. Hope this helps... Will Mark Gregory wrote: > > Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never > having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to > use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last > a long time! :v) . > > For example, should I allow the tubes to warm up for a few minutes before > playing, and are there any special precautions I should follow after > playing (i.e. do I need a cool-down period before powering down?). Any > advice would be much appreciated. A quick Web- > search didn't reveal much except prices on used equipment. > > Thanks! > Mark. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 7 19:41:21 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: <36BCBC22.696D92EC@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > Quite a number of years ago, I made a statement that would have been > obviously said tongue in cheek to anyone who had been following the > discussion. A flame war was the result even though I said numerous times > the smilely had been left off the statement. Of course having grown a bit > wiser (and probably more opinionated if that is possible), I would welcome > the flame war :). Don't get me wrong, I love a good flame war as much as the next guy, but these days I have to keep a good public "face" or else I scare away potentional customers. Being diplomatic sucks. ;) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 7 19:55:26 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > > This gives a new meaning to the term LOG IN. > > > Ok i'll add the :) just to be sure that nobody ask me how I can Log in into > > > a wooden laptop (: > > > By the way did you get the docking station with it? > > > Francois > > > > > > >I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the > > > >modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a > > > > I wouldn't feel any need to log in to a wooden computer. I'd just > > politely axe for permission to enter. > > But, only if you saw it first. Well, you wood knot want to go against the grain by trying to hack in, else this discussion might branch off into a debate that could splinter the group. Better leaf this topic alone. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Feb 7 22:55:48 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? Message-ID: <01be531f$4bcbeda0$LocalHost@thegener> Antique Electronic Supply is a good source for tubes, substitution books, troubleshooting guides, speaker cloth, and even the little rubber feet on the bottom of old amps. Here's the web address: If you (or anyone on this list) is interested in a tube tester, I have a spare one that I'd be willing to sell (or trade sometihing for). Email me privately if interested. -Jason -----Original Message----- From: Will Emerson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 5:14 PM Subject: Re: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? >My $0.02 worth, You'll have to give it a little time to "warm up" (won't >work until >it does). As far as "cool down", it won't, until you shut the power off. >Vacuum tubes >use a filament (similar to that in a light bulb) to heat them up so that >they will >operate (so DON'T block any of the ventilation holes, or you risk >disaster). Two suggestions. 1: Check the back of the unit, and see if it >has a tube listing, or check each tube for it's type (will usually be an >alphanumeric, example: >12BE6). 2. See if you can locate a supply of replacement tubes. At last >check >(couple of years ago), Radio Shack would special order 'em, allow > weeks for delivery, so, I suggest checking Ham Radio swapmeets >and flea markets. Optional: >See if you can get your hands on a "Tube Tester". They used to be in >drug stores >everywhere, now they're kind of tough to find. Be advised that tubes >tend to have >(or did tend to have) a higher tendancy to fail, than solid state >devices. I think >I've got a tube substitution guide around here somewhere for RCA tubes.. >Hope this helps... > > Will > > >Mark Gregory wrote: >> >> Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never >> having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to >> use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last >> a long time! :v) . >> >> For example, should I allow the tubes to warm up for a few minutes before >> playing, and are there any special precautions I should follow after >> playing (i.e. do I need a cool-down period before powering down?). Any >> advice would be much appreciated. A quick Web- >> search didn't reveal much except prices on used equipment. >> >> Thanks! >> Mark. > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 7 20:24:11 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990207150342.006caf34@cadvision.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Mark Gregory wrote: > Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never > having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to > use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last > a long time! :v) . Wow, this is decidely off-topic. Way off topic. Don't you think this question would be better served on a more suitable newsgroup? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 7 20:50:53 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990207155611.00919a70@agora.rdrop.com> References: <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <4.1.19990207184132.00abe700@mcmanis.com> At 03:56 PM 2/7/99 -0800, James Willing wrote: >Screens are apx. 72 dots per inch. When the browser tries to interpolate >your 300dpi scans, it all goes to heck! (ruled by that guy with the spoon >from 'Dilbert') Sorry Jim, this suggestion is incorrect. The issue with scanning 300 DPI line art is that typically (and I know this to be the case with Umax scanners using Umax software) the image is scanned as a binary black and white image. Now when you "reduce" it to 72 - 100 DPI (which is screen resolution) if you retain the black and white mode then you will get crap. This is because you lose a lot of information. However, if you change the image to be an 8 bit grey scale image at the same time you resample it, then it will look reasonable because the program can use antialiasing techniques to preserve the information in the image. --Chuck From amirault at epix.net Mon Feb 8 00:05:55 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS Message-ID: <005701be5329$17dd5ba0$299f25d8@oemcomputer> Francois, Thanks. Very informative. This one fits me> $-) . I was in a car accident, this was DEFINITELY NOT by my choice. My $! did a good job. $! is only 1/2 done though. I will study and learn these cute ditties. John Amirault -----Original Message----- From: Francois To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 05, 1999 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS >Hi, >Check this site out >http://wwws.enterprise.net/fortknox/emoticon/smiley.html >Francois > >>Sam, >>I am still a newbie to this group and the internet. Please answer this >question. >>What does :) mean? >>John Amirault >> > > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 7 21:23:44 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Nanocomputer Training System References: <005701be5329$17dd5ba0$299f25d8@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <36BE58C0.3E5E82B4@rain.org> I just got a Nanocomputer NBZ80-S Training System (a single board computer with a breadboarding area) that is really pretty neat. It appears to have been made by SGS/ATES Systems Serial No 80003. Unfortunately it came with no docs. Anyone familar with the system at all? The latest code date I saw was 7931. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Sun Feb 7 22:03:28 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902052316.RAA15222@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: <19990205230803.17461.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990208150235.00ba0510@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 05:16 PM 05-02-99 -0600, Lawrence LeMay wrote: >I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever >it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many >other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it, >so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways >to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to >understand". > >BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both earlier and more obscure? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Feb 7 23:19:58 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990208150235.00ba0510@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> References: <199902052316.RAA15222@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <199902080517.XAA29223@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 15:03:28 +1100 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Huw Davies To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: ~OT: Computer misconceptions > At 05:16 PM 05-02-99 -0600, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > >I thought they invented the General Protection Fault, or whatever > >it was called. And the blue screen of death. and probably many > >other ways of saying "we dont know how to program, and we know it, > >so instead of debugging our programs we spend time finding ways > >to report cryptic error messages that normal users cant be expected to > >understand". > > > >BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. > And it ranks up with the error messages that tell you absolutely nothing, or the annoying dialog box that tells you that you must reboot your computer for changes to take effect after every single mouse click.......I just had to reboot seven times trying to get "Plug 'n' Play (!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?) to install a @#%^!%#$@ modem. > Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both earlier and more obscure? > Ahhhh, but I had to do something really stupid to get a GM to come up. Unlike my wintel box at work, where it'll just crash because I had the audacity to move the mouse and then *****HORROR!!!!****** click the button..........or, my mouse will just stop working for no apparent reason. However, this is the OS that I told Bill I wanted. Just ask him. Plus, I could multitask (albeit somewhat limited) on my A500 with 1mb of ram. > Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Feb 7 23:50:30 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990207225026.0068be88@cadvision.com> I guess it would be better dealt with elsewhere, but I know there are several old radio enthusiasts on the list, and several people who might have worked with vacuum-tube era computers. I did indicate it was off-topic in the subject line, and it's no more off-topic than lots of discussions I've seen here recently. Anyway, point made, my amp and I will go off and sulk in the corner ... see if I invite you to my Grammy Award party. Mark. At 06:24 PM 2/7/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Mark Gregory wrote: > >> Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never >> having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to >> use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last >> a long time! :v) . > >Wow, this is decidely off-topic. Way off topic. Don't you think this >question would be better served on a more suitable newsgroup? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > > From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 7 23:28:00 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > > This gives a new meaning to the term LOG IN. > > > > Ok i'll add the :) just to be sure that nobody ask me how I can Log in into > > > > a wooden laptop (: > > > > By the way did you get the docking station with it? > > > > Francois > > > > > > > > >I've found a rare transitional form between the ancient abacus and the > > > > >modern laptop: the wooden laptop! OK, it's a pre-prototype mock-up of a > > > > > > I wouldn't feel any need to log in to a wooden computer. I'd just > > > politely axe for permission to enter. > > > > But, only if you saw it first. > > Well, you wood knot want to go against the grain by trying to hack in, > else this discussion might branch off into a debate that could splinter > the group. Better leaf this topic alone. I give up. You win. Five (or six, depending on how you count) hits in the same message takes it!!! - don > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > From erd at infinet.com Sun Feb 7 23:36:18 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902080517.XAA29223@garcon.laidbak.com> from "Paul Braun" at Feb 7, 99 11:19:58 pm Message-ID: <199902080536.AAA06765@user2.infinet.com> > > Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both earlier and more obscure? Earlier? Probably. The Guru Meditation number dated from 1985 (at least for those of us outside of the original program development). Obscure? I think not. You got two numbers: a 32-bit error code, most of which were expressions of MC68000 exception numbers (like odd address trap or bus error) and a 32-bit process address of the offending process. If you cared to, you could enter a ROM-based debugger (via the serial port at 9600 baud) and walk through memory to see why things went astray. Most people just swore and clicked the left button. Later, there were some great exception handlers that would translate the 32-bit error code into something meaningful inside the flashing red box. At first, we just looked up the number in the Rom Kernel Manuals (RKMs). Anyone who programmed an Amiga in the first five years got used to the most common 80% of the Guru numbers anyway. Usually it was something stupid like bolixing up an address register or accessing non-existent memory (except AmigaDOS 1.0 and 1.1 when a malloc failure Guru'ed the machine). -ethan (Amiga owner since 1986) From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Feb 8 00:23:59 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990207184132.00abe700@mcmanis.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19990207155611.00919a70@agora.rdrop.com> <000901be52d5$d4196ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990207222359.00db7610@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:50 PM 2/7/99 -0800, you wrote: >At 03:56 PM 2/7/99 -0800, James Willing wrote: >>Screens are apx. 72 dots per inch. When the browser tries to interpolate >>your 300dpi scans, it all goes to heck! (ruled by that guy with the spoon >>from 'Dilbert') > >Sorry Jim, this suggestion is incorrect. The issue with scanning 300 DPI >line art is that typically (and I know this to be the case with Umax >scanners using Umax software) the image is scanned as a binary black and >white image. > >Now when you "reduce" it to 72 - 100 DPI (which is screen resolution) if >you retain the black and white mode then you will get crap. This is because >you lose a lot of information. However, if you change the image to be an 8 >bit grey scale image at the same time you resample it, then it will look >reasonable because the program can use antialiasing techniques to preserve >the information in the image. True enough... In reading the original posting I seem to have fixated on the resolution issue and missed the 'line art' aspect... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Feb 8 01:36:35 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: smilies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990208183335.00b89220@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 10:11 AM 06-02-99 -0800, Sam Ismail wrote: >Well, I used to absolutely hate the stupid things, and refused to use >them, until I realized that yes, sometimes people ARE too stupid to know >what is or isn't a joke. It's even more important when the person sending the e-mail is into irony and the receiver isn't, or if local expressions have different meanings in different places (hint, Australian English differs from both English English (that I learnt when I was young (about 3 or 4, English is not my native tongue)) and American English (and all the other Englishes that exist)). Note, I think I got all the nested brackets right, my lisp ain't what it used to be :-) Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Feb 8 02:36:46 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990207225026.0068be88@cadvision.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Mark Gregory wrote: > I guess it would be better dealt with elsewhere, but I know there are > several old radio enthusiasts on the list, and several people who might > have worked with vacuum-tube era computers. I did indicate it was off-topic > in the subject line, and it's no more off-topic than lots of discussions > I've seen here recently. > > Anyway, point made, my amp and I will go off and sulk in the corner ... see > if I invite you to my Grammy Award party. Sorry, didn't see the "OT" in the header. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 8 08:21:50 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Laptop ID In-Reply-To: References: <36BCBC22.696D92EC@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990208082150.2effa6ee@intellistar.net> At 05:41 PM 2/7/99 -0800, Sam grumbled: > >Being diplomatic sucks. ;) > Welcome to the real world Sam. Joe From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon Feb 8 06:36:23 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Help with LS-DOS 6.3.1 was ( Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS) Message-ID: <01BE5335.BAA6AC90.steverob@hotoffice.com> Thanks Ward and Tony, I guess the original problem was the nut between the keyboard and the chair. Who'd thought there was a Y-1987 problem. I downloaded LS-DOS and TRSCROSS and got them transferred to the TL/2. Using TRSCROSS, I am able to format disks that are readable by the Model IV on that system. Now, I need a little help getting LS-DOS to boot on the IV. When I tried to copy LS-DOS to a disk (using TRSCROSS), it told me the file name was not valid. Assuming the file needs to be renamed, what should the file name be? Is there anything special I need to do to make this a bootable image? If someone could provide step-by-step instructions, I'd really appreciate it... Thanks, Steve Robertson - QA Team Leader -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 4:44 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS > > I am having a little trouble with my TRS Model IV . When I boot off of the Having just restored one, maybe I can help... > TRSDOS system disk, the system prompts for the time and won't go any > farther. When I enter the time, it clears the field and prompts again. Normally it prompts for the date first (actually, both the date and time prompts can be enabled/disabled by the appropriate command...). Are you giving it a valid date or time? Note that a lot of TRS-DOS 6/ LS-DOS 6 versions will only take dates between 1980 and 1987. Try a date in that range. The best fix for that is to upgrade to LS-DOS 6.3.1. You can get a disk image (and the source) from Tim Mann's web site. To get the disk image to a real disk you can use either xtrs (a trs-80 emulator which uses X) under linux, or a little program I've written, also for a linux box, that simply writes disk images to real disks. Let me know if you (or anyone else) wants the latter. > The computer works just fine with all my other software so, I suspect the > disk is corrupt. If anyone has an extra copy of TRSDOS 6.x laying around, > I'd really appreciate it. If you really can't get it locally, I can write you an LS-DOS 6.3.1 disk and post it to you. Of course the post might well mangle it :-( > > TIA, Steve Robertson > > > > -tony From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 07:55:39 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Euro on old computers In-Reply-To: <19990208002247.21348@firepower> References: <199902031330.OAA28260@horus.mch.sni.de>; from Hans Franke on Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 02:30:10PM +0000 Message-ID: <199902081256.NAA27635@horus.mch.sni.de> > > (Did you know that there is also a kind of > > cyrillic (russian) ASCII, where they not only replaced a few > > symbols, but rather the whole alpha chars (and some additional, > > since they have more letters). > If any of you are going to read Russian and/or deal with Soviet/Russian > computers, should be on > your reading list. What a great source. Thank you. I always serched for such a comparsion of cyrillic 'ASCII' charsets (one schould also go one level above to http://czyborra.com/charsets/ ). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 08:42:50 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902052132.NAA01565@civic.hal.com> References: <01BE5120.1CED2720.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <199902081343.OAA08422@horus.mch.sni.de> > > With our luck, they'll harness this thing and energy will dirt cheap. > > But... We'll still have single phase in our homes and thus no "heavy iron" > > in the garage :-) > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. Sounds a bit 3rd world alike .... And the motor is still not running well! Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From kevan at heydon.org Mon Feb 8 08:44:31 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: web archive & listproc help (was: Collecting computers - the book... In-Reply-To: <199902051459.PAA13412@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > What about puting the pages within a restricted area, and the > > > password is supplied with the acknowledge message of the lists > > > registration ? So it would be 'restricted' to people that have > > > the list also (or at least had it at one time). So the privacy > > > would be simmilar to the list itself. > > > This can easily be done. > > I would prefer this before altering mails or snip of addresses. The problem here is that I suspect I will get flooded with emails requesting the password. I don't have the time for this or the regular attention to my email for this to work. From gim at hitec-uk.com Mon Feb 8 08:50:48 1999 From: gim at hitec-uk.com (Grant I Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT/HUM: An alternate history of our "information age and LINUX": The Gospel of Tux Message-ID: <80256712.005135F0.00@hitec-uk.com> I was sent this one, which some may find amusing. A respite from hard-core computing :) Gospel of Tux unearthed (long) Every generation has a mythology. Every millenium has a doomsday cult. Every legend gets the distortion knob wound up until the speaker melts. Archeologists at the University of Helsinki today uncovered what could be the earliest known writings from the Cult of Tux, a fanatical religious sect that flourished during the early Silicon Age, around the dawn of the third millenium AD... The Gospel of Tux (v1.0) In the beginning Turing created the Machine. And the Machine was crufty and bogacious, existing in theory only. And von Neumann looked upon the Machine, and saw that it was crufty. He divided the Machine into two Abstractions, the Data and the Code, and yet the two were one Architecture. This is a great Mystery, and the beginning of wisdom. And von Neumann spoke unto the Architecture, and blessed it, saying, "Go forth and replicate, freely exchanging data and code, and bring forth all manner of devices unto the earth." And it was so, and it was cool. The Architecture prospered and was implemented in hardware and software. And it brought forth many Systems unto the earth. The first Systems were mighty giants; many great works of renown did they accomplish. Among them were Colossus, the codebreaker; ENIAC, the targeter; EDSAC and MULTIVAC and all manner of froody creatures ending in AC, the experimenters; and SAGE, the defender of the sky and father of all networks. These were the mighty giants of old, the first children of Turing, and their works are written in the Books of the Ancients. This was the First Age, the age of Lore. Now the sons of Marketing looked upon the children of Turing, and saw that they were swift of mind and terse of name and had many great and baleful attributes. And they said unto themselves, "Let us go now and make us Corporations, to bind the Systems to our own use that they may bring us great fortune." With sweet words did they lure their customers, and with many chains did they bind the Systems, to fashion them after their own image. And the sons of Marketing fashioned themselves Suits to wear, the better to lure their customers, and wrote grave and perilous Licenses, the better to bind the Systems. And the sons of Marketing thus became known as Suits, despising and being despised by the true Engineers, the children of von Neumann. And the Systems and their Corporations replicated and grew numerous upon the earth. In those days there were IBM and Digital, Burroughs and Honeywell, Unisys and Rand, and many others. And they each kept to their own System, hardware and software, and did not interchange, for their Licences forbade it. This was the Second Age, the age of Mainframes. Now it came to pass that the spirits of Turing and von Neumann looked upon the earth and were displeased. The Systems and their Corporations had grown large and bulky, and Suits ruled over true Engineers. And the Customers groaned and cried loudly unto heaven, saying, "Oh that there would be created a System mighty in power, yet small in size, able to reach into the very home!" And the Engineers groaned and cried likewise, saying, "Oh, that a deliverer would arise to grant us freedom from these oppressing Suits and their grave and perilous Licences, and send us a System of our own, that we may hack therein!" And the spirits of Turing and von Neumann heard the cries and were moved, and said unto each other, "Let us go down and fabricate a Breakthrough, that these cries may be stilled." And that day the spirits of Turing and von Neumann spake unto Moore of Intel, granting him insight and wisdom to understand the future. And Moore was with chip, and he brought forth the chip and named it 4004. And Moore did bless the Chip, saying, "Thou art a Breakthrough; with my own Corporation have I fabricated thee. Thou thou art yet as small as a dust mote, yet shall thou grow and replicate unto the size of a mountain, and conquer all before thee. This blessing I give unto thee: every eighteen months shall thou double in capacity, until the end of the age." This is Moore's Law, which endures unto this day. And the birth of 4004 was the beginning of the Third Age, the age of Microchips. And as the Mainframes and their Systems and Corporations had flourished, so did the Microchips and their Systems and Corporations. And their lineage was on this wise: Moore begat Intel. Intel begat Mostech, Zilog and Atari. Mostech begat 6502, and Zilog begat Z80. Intel also begat 8800, who begat Altair; and 8086, mother of all PCs. 6502 begat Commodore, who begat PET and 64; and Apple, who begat 2. (Apple is the great Mystery, the Fruit that was devoured, yet bloomed again.) Atari begat 800 and 1200, masters of the game, who were destroyed by Sega and Nintendo. Xerox begat PARC. Commodore and PARC begat Amiga, creator of fine arts; Apple and PARC begat Lisa, who begat Macintosh, who begat iMac. Atari and PARC begat ST, the music maker, who died and was no more. Z80 begat Sinclair the dwarf, TRS-80 and CP/M, who begat many machines, but soon passed from this world. Altair, Apple and Commodore together begat Microsoft, the Great Darkness which is called Abomination, Destroyer of the Earth, the Gates of Hell. Now it came to pass in the Age of Microchips that IBM, the greatest of the Mainframe Corporations, looked upon the young Microchip Systems and was greatly vexed. And in their vexation and wrath they smote the earth and created the IBM PC. The PC was without sound and colour, crufty and bogacious in great measure, and its likeness was a tramp, yet the Customers were greatly moved and did purchase the PC in great numbers. And IBM sought about for an Operating System Provider, for in their haste they had not created one, nor had they forged a suitably grave and perilous License, saying, "First we will build the market, then we will create a new System, one in our own image, and bound by our Licence." But they reasoned thus out of pride and not wisdom, not forseeing the wrath which was to come. And IBM came unto Microsoft, who licensed unto them QDOS, the child of CP/M and 8086. (8086 was the daughter of Intel, the child of Moore). And QDOS grew, and was named MS-DOS. And MS-DOS and the PC together waxed mighty, and conquered all markets, replicating and taking possession thereof, in accordance with Moore's Law. And Intel grew terrible and devoured all her children, such that no chip could stand before her. And Microsoft grew proud and devoured IBM, and this was a great marvel in the land. All these things are written in the Books of the Deeds of Microsoft. In the fullness of time MS-DOS begat Windows. And this is the lineage of Windows: CP/M begat QDOS. QDOS begat DOS 1.0. DOS 1.0 begat DOS 2.0 by way of Unix. DOS 2.0 begat Windows 3.11 by way of PARC and Macintosh. IBM and Microsoft begat OS/2, who begat Windows NT and Warp, the lost OS of lore. Windows 3.11 begat Windows 95 after triumphing over Macintosh in a mighty Battle of Licences. Windows NT begat NT 4.0 by way of Windows 95. NT 4.0 begat NT 5.0, the OS also called Windows 2000, The Millenium Bug, Doomsday, Armageddon, The End Of All Things. Now it came to pass that Microsoft had waxed great and mighty among the Microchip Corporations; mighter than any of the Mainframe Corporations before it had it waxed. And Gates heart was hardened, and he swore unto his Customers and their Engineers the words of this curse: "Children of von Neumann, hear me. IBM and the Mainframe Corporations bound thy forefathers with grave and perilous Licences, such that ye cried unto the spirits of Turing and von Neumann for deliverance. Now I say unto ye: I am greater than any Corporation before me. Will I loosen your Licences? Nay, I will bind thee with Licences twice as grave and ten times more perilous than my forefathers. I will engrave my Licence on thy heart and write my Serial Number upon thy frontal lobes. I will bind thee to the Windows Platform with cunning artifices and with devious schemes. I will bind thee to the Intel Chipset with crufty code and with gnarly APIs. I will capture and enslave thee as no generation has been enslaved before. And wherefore will ye cry then unto the spirits of Turing, and von Neumann, and Moore? They cannot hear ye. I am become a greater Power than they. Ye shall cry only unto me, and shall live by my mercy and my wrath. I am the Gates of Hell; I hold the portal to MSNBC and the keys to the Blue Screen of Death. Be ye afraid; be ye greatly afraid; serve only me, and live." And the people were cowed in terror and gave homage to Microsoft, and endured the many grave and perilous trials which the Windows platform and its greatly bogacious Licence forced upon them. And once again did they cry to Turing and von Neumann and Moore for a deliverer, but none was found equal to the task until the birth of Linux. These are the generations of Linux: SAGE begat ARPA, which begat TCP/IP, and Aloha, which begat Ethernet. Bell begat Multics, which begat C, which begat Unix. Unix and TCP/IP begat Internet, which begat the World Wide Web. Unix begat RMS, father of the great GNU, which begat the Libraries and Emacs, chief of the Utilities. In the days of the Web, Internet and Ethernet begat the Intranet LAN, which rose to renown among all Corporations and prepared the way for the Penguin. And Linus and the Web begat the Kernel through Unix. The Kernel, the Libraries and the Utilities together are the Distribution, the one Penguin in many forms, forever and ever praised. Now in those days there was in the land of Helsinki a young scholar named Linus the Torvald. Linus was a devout man, a disciple of RMS and mighty in the spirit of Turing, von Neumann and Moore. One day as he was meditating on the Architecture, Linus fell into a trance and was granted a vision. And in the vision he saw a great Penguin, serene and well-favoured, sitting upon an ice floe eating fish. And at the sight of the Penguin Linus was deeply afraid, and he cried unto the spirits of Turing, von Neumann and Moore for an interpretation of the dream. And in the dream the spirits of Turing, von Neumann and Moore answered and spoke unto him, saying, "Fear not, Linus, most beloved hacker. You are exceedingly cool and froody. The great Penguin which you see is an Operating System which you shall create and deploy unto the earth. The ice-floe is the earth and all the systems thereof, upon which the Penguin shall rest and rejoice at the completion of its task. And the fish on which the Penguin feeds are the crufty Licensed codebases which swim beneath all the earth's systems. The Penguin shall hunt and devour all that is crufty, gnarly and bogacious; all code which wriggles like spaghetti, or is infested with blighting creatures, or is bound by grave and perilous Licences shall it capture. And in capturing shall it replicate, and in replicating shall it document, and in documentation shall it bring freedom, serenity and most cool froodiness to the earth and all who code therein." Linus rose from meditation and created a tiny Operating System Kernel as the dream had foreshewn him; in the manner of RMS, he released the Kernel unto the World Wide Web for all to take and behold. And in the fulness of Internet Time the Kernel grew and replicated, becoming most cool and exceedingly froody, until at last it was recognised as indeed a great and mighty Penguin, whose name was Tux. And the followers of Linus took refuge in the Kernel, the Libraries and the Utilities; they installed Distribution after Distribution, and made sacrifice unto the GNU and the Penguin, and gave thanks to the spirits of Turing, von Neumann and Moore, for their deliverance from the hand of Microsoft. And this was the beginning of the Fourth Age, the age of Open Source. Now there is much more to be said about the exceeding strange and wonderful events of those days; how some Suits of Microsoft plotted war upon the Penguin, but were discovered on a Halloween Eve; how Gates fell among lawyers and was betrayed and crucified by his former friends, the apostles of Media; how the mercenary Knights of the Red Hat brought the gospel of the Penguin into the halls of the Corporations; and even of the dispute between the brethren of Gnome and KDE over a trollish Licence. But all these things are recorded elsewhere, in the Books of the Deeds of the Penguin and the Chronicles of the Fourth Age, and I suppose if they were all narrated they would fill a stack of DVDs as deep and perilous as a Usenet Newsgroup. Now may you code in the power of the Source; may the Kernel, the Libraries and the Utilities be with you, throughout all Distributions, until the end of the Epoch. Amen. Posted on Sat 06 Feb 15:50:24 1999 GMT Written by Lennier Grant Mitchell gim@hitec-uk.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 8 09:35:46 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive a... Message-ID: <4db47a14.36bf0452@aol.com> In a message dated 99-02-08 08:45:25 EST, you write: << > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. >> I've a small drill press with a (bad?) capacitor start motor that only seems to start up once out of every 300 presses of the on switch. does spinning the motor and then cycling the power really work?? From jpero at cgocable.net Mon Feb 8 09:39:00 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) In-Reply-To: <199902081343.OAA08422@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <199902052132.NAA01565@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <199902081536.KAA00715@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:43:50 +1 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Hans Franke" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: RE[2]: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive and packs)) > > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. > > Sounds a bit 3rd world alike .... And the motor is still > not running well! I have done that before to start induction motors by hand without start capacitor. Some have dual caps from what I heard for starting and running. If the motor is hugh sized, capacitors or start switch circuitry burnted out to go w/ it would be very $$$ and some didn't chose to have start cap and do the B&S thing start. (pull and flick switch same thing as choke off after start.) Jason D. > > Gruss > H. From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon Feb 8 09:58:21 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive a... Message-ID: <01BE5351.F1D706D0.steverob@hotoffice.com> -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:36 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: RE[2]: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive a... In a message dated 99-02-08 08:45:25 EST, you write: << > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. >> I've a small drill press with a (bad?) capacitor start motor that only seems to start up once out of every 300 presses of the on switch. does spinning the motor and then cycling the power really work?? Yes, it'll generally work with small motors like a Drill Press. While caps and pull-starting a motor will probably work, I'd be real reluctant to do this with a machine that I cared about. Rotary 3-phase converters (motor/generator) are not *that* expensive and can probably be bought at equipment auctions and liquidations. These commercial generators will provide the proper phase and voltages and could save an irreplacable piece of equipment from serious damage. It sounds like good insurance to me... Steve Robertson - From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 8 10:10:15 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: Stubborn motors (was [OT] Zero-point energy) In-Reply-To: <4db47a14.36bf0452@aol.com> from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Feb 8, 99 10:35:46 am Message-ID: <199902081610.LAA14178@user2.infinet.com> > I've a small drill press with a (bad?) capacitor start motor that only seems > to start up once out of every 300 presses of the on switch. does spinning the > motor and then cycling the power really work?? I have a drill press that vibrates its brush mounting screw loose every few years. When it's getting sloppy, I have to start the press by twisting the chuck and switching it on. -ethan From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Feb 8 11:16:15 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: WFW 7.0 Message-ID: <4.1.19990208121338.0097b940@206.231.8.2> Anybody have or use M$ Word for Windows ver. 7.0, aka Word for Windows 95? Please email me off the list. Thanks! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 12:23:49 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: References: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 4, 99 09:46:23 pm Message-ID: <199902081724.SAA18066@horus.mch.sni.de> > > I'm thinking of putting together an FAQ-like document intended to combat > > the stupid ideas people have about computers. So, does anyone have any ideas > > [...] > Hard disk space and RAM are two different things (the famous 'I don't > have enough memory but I installed a 1Gb hard disk yesterday) Oh, and don't forget: There is NO 640 K barrier in DOS. DOS can handle well up to 1024 K of RAM. (And the maximum addressable real mode Mem on 286+ PCs is rather 1087K than 1024, but thats a different story) > A 3.5" floppy disk is not a 'hard disk' And it's not 3.5" but rather a 90mm disk (case). (And it's not quadratic) > Executing an existing program, or installing a pre-written software > package are not 'programming' And "Machine Language" is not Assembler (Language). > Programming a microprocessor is not (in general) microprogramming And the FD was invented to store a Micro Porgramm, and not for Micro computers :)) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 12:34:37 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <000001be517b$152f4800$0af438cb@a.davie> References: Message-ID: <199902081735.SAA19057@horus.mch.sni.de> > Another one... when people say they're "machine code programmers"... they > really mean they're "assembly language programmers". Front-panel users > excluded, there are very very few machine code programmers out there still > keying/toggling in 1s and 0s :) Only if you consider hex key in and assisted codeing also as 'front panel' usage. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From joe at barrera.org Mon Feb 8 11:39:26 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? Message-ID: <004d01be5389$f96d7e00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Hi, I have a few OT questions. I hope no one minds. 1. I have a nasty hangnail that won't go away. Any suggestions how to get rid of it? 2. Everyone know about Cuban cigars... but are Cuban cigarettes better than American cigarettes? Are they also illegal? 3. I've heard rumors that Cabaret Voltaire and KISS are going on tour together soon! Is it true? How can I get tickets? - Joe P.S. Consider this an experiment in the refusal to use emoticons. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 12:47:37 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <36BC058F.7A18BB15@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199902081748.SAA20289@horus.mch.sni.de> > > BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. > Magnificent, isn't it? It _looks_ like valuable debugging > information to a non-programmer. In its way it's as beautiful as > Jerry Falwell promising that anybody who sends him money will go to > Heaven. Who's that guy ? And did he get a copyright/theft of corporate secrets law suit form the catholic church ? :)) H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 8 07:44:01 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902080536.AAA06765@user2.infinet.com> References: <199902080517.XAA29223@garcon.laidbak.com> from "Paul Braun" at Feb 7, 99 11:19:58 pm Message-ID: <199902081844.NAA09280@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 Feb 99 at 0:36, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > Surly the AmigaDOS Guru meditation was both earlier and more obscure? > > Earlier? Probably. The Guru Meditation number dated from 1985 (at least > for those of us outside of the original program development). Obscure? > I think not. You got two numbers: a 32-bit error code, most of which were > expressions of MC68000 exception numbers (like odd address trap or bus > error) and a 32-bit process address of the offending process. If you cared > to, you could enter a ROM-based debugger (via the serial port at 9600 baud) > and walk through memory to see why things went astray. Most people just swore > and clicked the left button. > > Later, there were some great exception handlers that would translate the > 32-bit error code into something meaningful inside the flashing red box. > At first, we just looked up the number in the Rom Kernel Manuals (RKMs). > Anyone who programmed an Amiga in the first five years got used to the > most common 80% of the Guru numbers anyway. Usually it was something > stupid like bolixing up an address register or accessing non-existent > memory (except AmigaDOS 1.0 and 1.1 when a malloc failure Guru'ed the machine). > > -ethan > (Amiga owner since 1986) > Ahh, but neither could compare to the obtruseness and expressiveness of the ST bomb images, up to 13 of them, each number of them having multiple fault reasons. Or the fault #s you would have to translate to another # to look it up in the fault chart. ciao lwalker@interlog.com From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 8 12:53:03 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902081844.NAA09280@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 8, 99 01:44:01 pm Message-ID: <199902081853.KAA11218@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 715 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/486582cb/attachment.ksh From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 8 08:09:28 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and K In-Reply-To: <004d01be5389$f96d7e00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <199902081921.OAA20059@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 Feb 99 at 9:39, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > Hi, I have a few OT questions. I hope no one minds. > > 1. I have a nasty hangnail that won't go away. Any suggestions how to get > rid of it? Soak it in a solution of bourbon and American cigarettes. > 2. Everyone know about Cuban cigars... but are Cuban cigarettes better than > American cigarettes? Are they also illegal? Anything is better than American cigarettes. Illegality for all cigs is on its way. > 3. I've heard rumors that Cabaret Voltaire and KISS are going on tour > together soon! Is it true? How can I get tickets? > They should be available at any Atari Teenage Riot concert. > - Joe > > P.S. Consider this an experiment in the refusal to use emoticons. > > Almost blew a board once from info in a newsgroup by a wag who didn't use them either. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 8 08:09:27 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902081748.SAA20289@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <36BC058F.7A18BB15@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199902081921.OAA20068@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 Feb 99 at 18:48, Hans Franke wrote: > > > BTW, the blue screen of death is a masterstroke of obfuscation. > > > Magnificent, isn't it? It _looks_ like valuable debugging > > information to a non-programmer. In its way it's as beautiful as > > Jerry Falwell promising that anybody who sends him money will go to > > Heaven. > > Who's that guy ? And did he get a copyright/theft of corporate > secrets law suit form the catholic church ? > > :)) > H. > Nah, that was Oral Roberts who founded the slumiversity of the same name. I think Falwell was just another of the many fundamentalists caught trying to diddle young/grown girls/boys, which of course the catholic church has lots of experience in. ciao :^}} larry lwalker@interlog.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 14:21:27 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT:Technical Problem (Re: Laptop ID) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199902081922.UAA26099@horus.mch.sni.de> > > BTW, " :) " is an extremely rude and nasty way to insult somebody by stating > > that they are too stupid to know what is or isn't a joke :-) > Well, I used to absolutely hate the stupid things, and refused to use > them, until I realized that yes, sometimes people ARE too stupid to know > what is or isn't a joke. See? Now I have to use a smiley :) or else > somebody will be offended by that last line (hint: learn to read between > the lines). I have a problem here, called Fixed Line Spacing - There is no room for additional text in there ! So sam, how ca I get you insights ? serious Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Feb 8 14:21:27 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <004d01be5389$f96d7e00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <199902081922.UAA26102@horus.mch.sni.de> > Hi, I have a few OT questions. I hope no one minds. > 1. I have a nasty hangnail that won't go away. Any suggestions how to get > rid of it? > 2. Everyone know about Cuban cigars... but are Cuban cigarettes better than > American cigarettes? Are they also illegal? > 3. I've heard rumors that Cabaret Voltaire and KISS are going on tour > together soon! Is it true? How can I get tickets? > P.S. Consider this an experiment in the refusal to use emoticons. Ha! You are cheating ! I see you smile ! Gruss H. BTW: Is KISS still alive ? (And of course they are illegal - anything that's better than the corosponding (US-)American product is illegal) (And whats a hangnail ? Do you have any Part#?) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Feb 8 13:29:38 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <199902081922.UAA26102@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > BTW: Is KISS still alive ? Yes, but their albums since they "came out" (from behind their make-up) suck beyond measure. Apparently they will be re-uniting the original members and doing a tour but, oh man, it just won't be the same. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 8 08:31:29 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902081853.KAA11218@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <199902081844.NAA09280@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 8, 99 01:44:01 pm Message-ID: <199902081931.OAA22548@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 Feb 99 at 10:53, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > :: Ahh, but neither could compare to the obtruseness and expressiveness of > ::the ST bomb images, up to 13 of them, each number of them having multiple fault > ::reasons. Or the fault #s you would have to translate to another # to look it > ::up in the fault chart. > > So that's what those things are in WinSTon. > Wash out your mouth with strong soap. Sacrilege ! Make the holy sign to keep away demons. Emulators BAD , emulators BAAAD !! ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From gram at cnct.com Mon Feb 8 13:51:15 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > BTW: Is KISS still alive ? > Apparently they will be re-uniting the original members and doing a tour > but, oh man, it just won't be the same. Actually, they started a new tour at the end of October. Fox (at least on the east coast) carried the first half hour of the opening concert live from Dodger Stadium. Didn't seem much worse than they were 20+ years ago, but I wasn't a fan then either. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From msg at computerpro.com Mon Feb 8 13:40:19 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:02 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts Message-ID: <36BF3DA3.9B3786C5@computerpro.com> Greetings, Attached is an archive posting regarding belts for the HP-85 calc. Has anyone found a source for these belts with less than $50.00 minimum orders? Thanks all. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: text Size: 556 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/71961b3a/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 8 14:19:56 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <199902081931.OAA22548@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 8, 99 02:31:29 pm Message-ID: <199902082019.MAA08108@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 686 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/27eb4a98/attachment.ksh From gregorym at cadvision.com Mon Feb 8 14:37:26 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990208133725.006cf938@cadvision.com> I'll see your $50, and raise you $15 (Canadian): my A1200/HD40 was $10 at a thrift, and the power supply (bought later) was another $5. I love being behind the technology curve! :v) Mark. At 12:19 PM 2/8/99 -0800, you wrote: >:: Wash out your mouth with strong soap. Sacrilege ! >:: Make the holy sign to keep away demons. Emulators BAD , emulators BAAAD !! > >I couldn't find an ST for sale that I could shell out for. :-) > >My A1200/HD40, though, cost me just $50 at a swap meet. Best $50 I ever >spent. :-) > >-- >-------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- >Cameron Kaiser Database Programmer/Administrative Computing >Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 >ckaiser@ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 >-- We only pretend to have standards. -- Unknown producer, ABC-TV ------------- > > From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Mon Feb 8 14:33:41 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990208133725.006cf938@cadvision.com> from "Mark Gregory" at Feb 8, 99 01:37:26 pm Message-ID: <199902082033.MAA11928@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 620 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/86738d3b/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Mon Feb 8 14:58:38 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Evil emulators (was Re: ~OT: Computer misconceptions) In-Reply-To: <199902081931.OAA22548@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Wash out your mouth with strong soap. Sacrilege ! > Make the holy sign to keep away demons. Emulators BAD , emulators BAAAD !! Hey, without xtrs on my Linux notebook, I wouldn't be able to play my Big-5 arcade games or my other old TRS-80 programs at work. I'm getting a bit old to lug a 4p around, especially when there's risk of damaging it in some of this nasty NYC weather. I wish somebody would write a CoCo emulator where I didn't need to go through dosemu. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 8 12:54:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Help with LS-DOS 6.3.1 was ( Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS) In-Reply-To: <01BE5335.BAA6AC90.steverob@hotoffice.com> from "Steve Robertson" at Feb 8, 99 07:36:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3170 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/95a35893/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 8 12:58:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <004d01be5389$f96d7e00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> from "Joseph S. Barrera III" at Feb 8, 99 09:39:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/f2f3eee8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 8 12:36:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Nanocomputer Training System In-Reply-To: <36BE58C0.3E5E82B4@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 7, 99 07:23:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 759 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/9188ac97/attachment.ksh From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon Feb 8 15:21:06 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Help with LS-DOS 6.3.1 was ( Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS) Message-ID: <01BE537F.0821D6E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> > 1) Install xtrs (Tim's TRS-80 emulator for linux/X). It can read .dsk > files and write real disks. > > 2) Run my little program diskdmp that reads .dsk files and writes real > TRS-80 disks. It does nothing else, but it's small. I don't know where > you'd find it, but I've notionally GPL'ed it, so I can send the .tar.gz > file to anyone who wants it (and you're welcome to stick on an ftp site, > etc). However, as with all free software, it uses the author's OS of > choice, in my case linux. A long time ago, I wrote a small ASM program for formatting disks and creating bootable images under DOS but, I don't really want to do that right now. I do have a Linux box here so, options 1 & 2 sound the most appealing. I'll hang a 1.2MB floppy on it and grab Tim's app (since it's already in a FTP directory). It could be a week or two before I get around to it. I'll let you know if I have any more problems. Thanks Again, Steve Robertson - From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Feb 8 15:26:57 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Mark-8 and Jon Titus In-Reply-To: <4db47a14.36bf0452@aol.com> Message-ID: <000a01be53a9$c17066a0$a2f438cb@a.davie> A while ago Doug wrote... > Really, AFAICT, Andrew Davie is the king of mining a variety of sources. I'll take that as a compliment. King? I doubt it; but I do go to a lot of effort to find things. Case in point: the Mark-8 from 1974. No, I don't have one. But I have been discussing this machine with Jon Titus, its creator. I tracked down Jon and of course tried to convince him I was a great home for some of his stuff. He replied with some interesting information, and I requested that he consent to me posting to the list. This he has done, and so without further ado... ---------- email from Jon Titus, creator of the Mark-8 minicomputer. Feb 9, 1999 Thanks for your note. I think there are a few sites that show a photo of the Mark-8, but I can't recall any URLs. I know that by searching on "Mark-8" or "Mark 8" usinf AltaVista I can usually come up with something. Let me see what I can locate. I do have a 35 mm silde of the cover of the July '74 issue of Radio-Electronics magazine and I could get that scanned and converted to a TIF or GIF file. I'll look into it if you wish. I may have the original schematic drawings in my "computer history" file at home. Years ago I tossed out the PC-board layouts, which were on large sheets on mylar that started to crack and deteriorate. The Mark-8 itself went to the Smithsonian Institution in Washington quite a few years ago. The prototype got pulled apart for bits and pieces over the years. It was hand wired, point to point using Vero board, although I did etch a board that held 1K bytes of memory. I doubt I have anything else related to the Mark-8. Let me see if I can locate the schematics and easily make copies for you. No, I never made a fortune on the Mark-8, but that was not my intent. I had been fooling with logic circuits since I was about 14 years old and used a lot of relays, stepper switches, etc., to build some interesting projects. When I went to graduate school, my work involved linking chemical instruments to minicomputers. I found I liked the computers and electronics more than the chemistry and headed in that direction. I used Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-8/L minicomputers and wanted some sort of computer of my own to fool with. So, when Intel announced the 8008, I got some info and adapted one of Intel's circuits into what became the Mark-8. I got some sample 8008 chips from Intel and get the unit running in late '73. I thought, gee, other hobbyists and experimenters might like to have their own computer, too, so I approached Radio-Electronics magazine about running a construction article, which they did. I gave them a lot of materials, so they published an extra booklet that people could purchase for $5. I got paid by R-E for the article and I collected some royalties on the circuit boards. That was a nice bit of money for a graduate student and I used some of it to buy my own IBM Selectric III typewriter--one that had the self-correcting tape and the typeball. I used that until a few years ago when it died. The Mark-8 did get a lot of people started with microprocessors and microcomputers, and it launched me in a new direction. I still run into people who remember the Mark-8 or who have used some of the books I wrote and edited in the 70s and 80s. That makes me feel very proud, and it's a feeling that money can't buy. So I didn't become rich in dollars from the Mark-8, but it was a rich and rewarding experience. That's plenty. Cheers, Jon ---------- end of email I would ask that you all refrain from chasing up things with Jon. I will post any information/schematics that Jon provides to the 'net, without charge. I think it's important that this interesting source of historical information be "mined" carefully. He is receptive to the idea of answering some questions for a page on the Mark-8 that I've been considering, so I'm inviting you all to discuss on the list a group of questions that you'd like to know about this machine and its design. I will submit them to him once we've settled on some reasonable ones. I'm interested in a project for a 1999 Mark-8. Anyone else want a replica? Cheers A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? ? > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of SUPRDAVE@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:36 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: RE[2]: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: > CDC 9766 Drive a... > > > In a message dated 99-02-08 08:45:25 EST, you write: > > << > Back on the three phase issue, many shops use another > > 3phase induction motor method to create needed three phases. > > Some don't even use a starting capacitor. They simple > > spin the motor with a pull rope and switch on the current. > >> > > I've a small drill press with a (bad?) capacitor start motor that > only seems > to start up once out of every 300 presses of the on switch. does > spinning the > motor and then cycling the power really work?? > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 8 15:32:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Help with LS-DOS 6.3.1 was ( Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS) In-Reply-To: <01BE537F.0821D6E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> from "Steve Robertson" at Feb 8, 99 04:21:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1143 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/393be47e/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 8 15:42:44 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts In-Reply-To: <36BF3DA3.9B3786C5@computerpro.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: > Greetings, > > Attached is an archive posting regarding belts for the HP-85 calc. > > Has anyone found a source for these belts with less than $50.00 > minimum orders? > > Thanks all. > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum A friend purchased belts for an old Dest Workless Station a year (or so) ago from: Stock Srive Products 2101 Jericho Turnpike Box 5416 New Hyde Park NY 11042-5416 Tel: 516-328-3300 Fax: 516-326-8827 I do not recall whether they had a minimum order, however. I would be interested in a set if you have to order more than needed. - don From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 8 15:43:59 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990208214359.1828.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > KISS = the original HP10, yes? Can't think of any reason the take that > machine anywere.... Especially given how much money I had to pay for them; as HPs go, second only to my HP-01 watch. I'm keeping them in a safe place! From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Feb 8 16:09:16 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Translation of Russian Computer article In-Reply-To: <01BE537F.0821D6E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <000b01be53af$aafde220$a2f438cb@a.davie> Machine-translation, beware. Translated Russian is a bit hard to read, but this one was interesting. ---- Very long time ago, when I was young, is beautiful and is carefree, the computers yet were not. It was completely wild time: the people absolutely recently send from caves and have moved in municipal apartments, on streets the trams went, which doors were closed manually by passengers, and the color television sets were the large rarity, and each of them was serviced by(with) the wizard from a factory of a name Kozitsky. And computers was not. In p?????? the language there was no even such word. The truth, the electronic computers (computer) already were, but the experts knew about them only. And in institute, where I have acted(arrived), the adjacent faculty was named as faculty of computer Technology. Now, certainly, not absolutely clearly, whom it(he) released, because the first set of Mathematicians - calculators has taken place, when I studied already on the third course. Their first have accepted to the Digital Computer "Ural - 2", and not only have accepted, but also have made to do(make) laboratory operations on programming. On institute then the legends went, how one student - calculator the whole semester tried to receive from "Ural" right answer on a question: how many there will be twice two? Whether the student has got careless, whether "Ural" already has run into marasm, but the answer it(he) has not achieved. The offset, truth, has received. And "Ural" soon have written off(copied). The advance went in seven--mile steps, and to the termination(ending) by me of institute has reached and our faculty: to us have arranged laboratory operation on the micro-computer "Promin". Characteristics her(it) I, certainly, whether I do not remember (will be almost student working on graduation thesis, moreover from other speciality to investigate into such details?), but she(it) looked very gracefully: by a size all about a curbstone of a desk, she(it) also was made out as a desk. The Output device (electrical typewriter without the keyboard) was built in a table-top, and on the right on desktop the plug board allocated and cassetestorage with special sprigs - to each command corresponded(met) sprig, like a micro-punched card. The programs were written on something like the Autocode, then laborious putting sprigs were brought in in the micro-computer. Good there was a machine! The fact-finding course for us borrowed(occupied) not that 4, not that 6 hours, thus almost all time cunningly on sorting out (are confused, despite of marking) and putting sprigs, and success anybody from us has not achieved. After that our paths (mine and computer) be for a long time dispatched. Has passed of years. After some vital peripeties I have returned with native institut's of a wall in quality... Well, it is not important. A computer strongly have come in life of the science officers. The scientists (especially, young) any more did not want to consider(count) on adding machines and slide rules, they actively mastered the programming languages and rules of handle of modern computers. (Note in brackets: and now somebody knows how though to consider(count) on a slide rule? And you see the modern microcalculators only absolutely recently have reached(achieved) possibilities, which were given by(with) this simple computing instrument. ?p????, the accuracy for him(it) (for it(her) - bar) is small, only up to the third sign, on weight and overall dimensions she(it) with the calculator is comparable, and under the price and technology of manufacture... Yes... Under the price and technology of manufacture the cart too is much easier than the automobile, and in handle it is easier, just for a long time I of carts did not see.) The computer center of institute sold to faculties a computer time. As a rule, night. Quitted " in night " till two, with thermoses and sandwiches. The institute was those, is deserted and ?????, and only in ?? the light and ????????? life shone. The computer was modern: Minsk - 22. In a huge hall there was a set of iron cases of height hardly less human growth mostly which is not having any indication, except for a bulb "Network". Among them the operator's console was perfectly lost: the large desktop with buttons, keys and several numbers of indicator lamps. The operation passed approximately as follows. From a perforated tape the necessary compiler (from Algol or FORTRAN), then - perforated tape of the program for start of translation (translation from the programming language on the machine codes) was brought in. The translation of the not so large program proceeded of minutes, then started to rumble " wide printing " and with a huge roar ??????????? of meter 1,5 forty centimetric ribbons. After that the operation of the programmer started: it was necessary to correct syntax errors, to amend on a perforated tape, to receive new roll with corrected variant, and the process iterated. Thus the compiler not always produced all errors at once, the part from them appeared only after correction of the previous series, so the path to start of the program was long, is twisting and ???????. But it was the most simple part of path. Various traps and among them rather unpleasant could be hidden further: loophole. The business in that cultures and disciplines ???????????????? of thinking for anybody was not. The concepts "system approach" or "structured programming" were not formulated yet, and attempt to develop principles of "dialog mode" from a computer met furious ????? for the orthodox programmers. The algorithms were thought out on the basis of the most common reasonings of the scientific principal: " And it is good, if after that there was it; and here should stand, as the small enough coefficient is told in establishing operation of the academician ??????????... " And so on; how many time the computer will consider(count) the program, nobody could tell even approximately, and debug resources was not in general. And through a little bit night ?????? it was suddenly found out, that the condition of loop termination is formulated incorrectly, the program is considered as hours and in any way does not give result (expected result, and in general though any!) Not because the computer considers(counts) too slowly, that is why, that she(it) considers(counts) same - overcycling. There were things and completely surprising: for example, " the small enough coefficient " at all not rendered concrete by the academician, at the value, taken from a ceiling, equal to unit worked poorly, at one thousand did not work in general, and in limits from one up to two tenth reduced in conditions of originating multi-hour, that is practically infinite, cycle. Also sit under morning, look on blinking bulbs and think: " Like would consider(count), but what?! " However, for me it was rather fast completed: me have charged to master the off-the-shelf micro-computer "World" with the purpose to have on faculty of the ready expert already to the moment of its(her) purchase. It was the perfect computer! Small, approximately as two ???????? under the TV set and the desktop with built "??????'??" (is an electrical typewriter with the keyboard) for input-output on a paper, punched tape input-output, rather large for such computers size of the RAM - 4 (four!) Kilobyte, built-in compiler from the own programming language "?????" (the a little bit simplified cyrillic Algol) - what still to engineer is necessary? "World" was decrypted as " the Computer for Engineering Accounts " or " Dream of the Engineers - ??????????? ". (you have paid attention to change of a keynote? "Consul" any more is not named as an input\output Device, and it is simple by input - output. The people began to get used to a civilization, the period of quivering respect to a computer already has passed, and in some years "Consuls" began to be named in general rather neglectfully - ?????????.) But while the faculty proved to the heads necessity of an own computer, while beat out funds (at all I do not present, that this such, but without it was impossible) "World" is obsolete and has turned to "World - 1", because has appeared "World - 2". On sizes she(it) was of time in two more, than previous, and by possibilities - it is more many times over. For it(her) RAM (eight Kilobytes was twice enlarged!), the display is added which in addition had a graphic mode (that is not only output ?????-letter strings(lines), but allowed to build the scatter diagrams with two levels of luminance of points) and input\output device on magnetic cards. "?????" too was extended and the language for mathematical accounts has turned in "Analyzer" -. In the display in special slot there was a light pencil, which functions at all I do not remember, because it(he) almost at once has broken, and small, but the incredibly heavy box for operation with magnetic cards worked so unsafe&, that we have tried it(him) of time twenty and any more did not include. To work, certainly, it became more convenient. For debugging the program became optional for printing out, and enough was of screen variant, but diagnostics of syntax were reduced to ??????????????? to the phrase which has been printed out by "Consul": " There is no memory ". Having received ten - other short machine-gun queues of "Consul" - " Are not present memory ", " There is no memory ", " There is no memory " - very much it would be desirable ????????: " And the conscience for you is?! " Remarkable there was a computer, I recall her(it) with ???????. The first acquaintance with ??-3 was extremely unsuccessful. For operation in that time of a computer to me was absolutely not necessary, but the operation was madly boring, and from melancholy I have gone on courses on learning the System of Small computers. Having read us course of the lectures on ???, to be exact, honesty having retold the Description, (from which I by the equal score nothing have understood - well, I do not know how "dry"), all of us ?????? to look (only to look!) on the present "iron". And having seen for the first time of directories (and there were in it(him) 5-6 system programs, yes 5-6 working units) with all history of operation for last some days (date, time, old variant of the program .???), I have told to our lecturer: " Well and ???????? the computer! " - " Why? " - that was surprised. " Because the chief at any moment will approach and will see, that yesterday you were engaged at all in that it(he) has charged you ". The lecturer has become puzzled, the similar thought did not come to it(him) in a head, and has not found the worthy answer. The times were ????????????, and labour discipline ????? is very strict! Then some time I worked on ?-6000. It was the controlling computer, she(it) was not intended for program - debug operations, therefore from controls for it(her) were only "Consul" and console with bulbs for reading addresses both datas, and buttons for their introduction and replacement. The truth, to it(her) was possible ???????????? the device of preparation of programs "Alpha" with the alphanumeric display and set of compilers on perforated tapes. Then the epopee with "Electronics engineering - 60" began. It was the unique apparatus. System block was a size about a modern IBM - ???? the block such as "Tower", of the same sizes was also Armenian (Yerevan production) drive, these two devices were inserted into the standard rack of height more human growth, and for the alphanumeric display (I emphasize all time it, because after "World - 2" of graphic modes I did not meet down to ???-3?) with the system block the separately applied desktop intended. The wide printing with "Daisy wheel" stood on a separate support. Therefore very first, that we have made, are have removed from the rack of front panels, have put there plywood shelf, and on it(her) the display. But this "????-plywood" very long did not want to fly... That is to consider(count). The business has appeared available faults of the second sort. As is known, in an electron technology in general and in computer technology as its(her) constituents, exist faults only of two sorts: first - there is a contact there, where it(him) should not be, and second - there is no contact there, where it(he) should be. So, while we have not guessed to pull out all cards from "basket", to wipe by their spirit, ???????? in plugs of "basket" ????????????? to turn up ????? (plugs were such, that the springs without the special work could be moved even by the small screwdriver), and ????????????? - but with force! - to put all back, the tests went through ???? in a pack, displaying each time new faults and not noting once already shown. After that the operation of "electronics eNgineering" more or was less adjusted, though at a door of a room it was necessary to hang up ????????: " by a Door to not clap! ". The drives ticked and ???????, the ventilator for cooling a power supply unit pulled all dust directly through reading of the head, disks ???????, all ??????????????, and a bit later has found out, that the right drive does not read written left and on the contrary, besides both have ceased to read records of bi-monthly prescription. To this time were not in time yet neither to create for this computer new, nor to update ??-??? the editors and compilers, therefore process of creation of programs represented the rather complex(difficult) task, complex(difficult) even psychologically, as all knew, that such special ?p??p?????? ?p?????? in a nature already are, and they strongly facilitate life. And on it, from a permission to tell, the computer the simple Soviet engineers have created for one about - very much solid organization the rather decent multimachine system, and even have started her(it) in production. And with pride I can mark, that, on some datas, still couple of years back, at any rate, one copy of this system quite satisfactorily worked. Soviet - means excellent(different)! For the sake of justice it is necessary to mention, that all above described epopee occured to one of the first copies of "electronics eNgineering - 60", almost from first hundred released computers. The factory gained experience, culture of production, though and slowly, grew, and with the subsequent copies of efforts was much less. Then for us has appeared multi-user ??-4 (I intentionally I do not specify its(her) official title). For it(her) I did not like the keyboard: I all time got not on those keys. Besides all my programs were on ????????? for "Electronics engineering", and in ?? such input was not. Therefore I ?????????? have connected them in one network (it not absolutely how now: has bought the modem, cable, the driver - has thrust, has included and has earned; similar, but it is more complex(difficult)) and worked on ?? through "Electronics engineering", which we now is proud named: " the intellectual terminal ". Shortly have bought one more computer - ???-3 (Dialogue computer complex). As a matter of fact it was repetition of "electronics eNgineering - 60" (same 32 Kilobytes of the RAM), only more accurately manufactured, in an overall dimensions of a present PC and two-pocket five inch drive. The diskettes were capacity 80 Kilobytes, the hard disk was not. With ?p???p??????? of this computer ??p?? we again have risen a transport problem ????????????? of program archive on a new size of diskettes. It was necessary also her(it) urgently to anchor to the system of data exchange. The development of domestic computing machine construction industry all was accelerated. Practically after ???-3 we have received ???-3?. It(she) already had any modest video memory (black-and-white, it is natural) and Bulgarian hard disk, which has broken for the third day. After repair it(he) has worked week, and after second - two. Third time we it(him) to repair were not lucky(carrying). At this time in laboratory one has appeared at first, and then by other IBM - 386. And favourite me ??? looked on their background... You know as. On it my rough computer biography practically was completed. Now I at home on a desk have 486-th computer with the color display (about it and to mention inconveniently), ??????? ??????? by Megabytes of RAM, beggarly hard disk on 480 Megabytes, which for 1,5 years of operation ??????? all once, and that on my fault (I have managed to write something in a zone of the housekeeping information, it was necessary ??????????? to search and to clean the soiled place) and - about, horror! - without ?D-ROM?. The seven-years(seven-summer) neighbour with the computer toys to me does not come - it(him) not interestingly. ? 1997, you and your Computer ---- -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? ? From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 8 16:37:46 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Mark-8 and Jon Titus In-Reply-To: <000a01be53a9$c17066a0$a2f438cb@a.davie> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > I'll take that as a compliment. King? I doubt it; but I do go to a lot of > effort to find things. Case in point: the Mark-8 from 1974. No, I don't > have one. But I have been discussing this machine with Jon Titus, its > creator. I tracked down Jon and of course tried to convince him I was a > great home for some of his stuff. > Thanks for your note. I think there are a few sites that show a photo of > the Mark-8, but I can't recall any URLs. I know that by searching on > "Mark-8" or "Mark 8" usinf AltaVista I can usually come up with something. > Let me see what I can locate. I do have a 35 mm silde of the cover of the > July '74 issue of Radio-Electronics magazine and I could get that scanned > and converted to a TIF or GIF file. I'll look into it if you wish. There's a scan of the Mark-8 cover on my soon-to-be-published "First PC" page: http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml Oops, I guess it's published now. I also have a CD-R with scematics and other goodies courtesy of another list member whom I'm sure will come forward as soon as he reads this thread. -- King Doug From joe at barrera.org Mon Feb 8 16:39:37 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] Message-ID: <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> >Especially given how much money I had to pay for them; as HPs go, second only >to my HP-01 watch. I'm keeping them in a safe place! What, you don't wear your HP-01? What's the point in having one, then? - Joe P.S. My HP-01 didn't come with the little key-presser stylus thingie. What's the best hack replacement anyone has come up with? From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 8 17:55:16 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] In-Reply-To: <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> References: <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <19990208235516.2723.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote about the HP-10: > Especially given how much money I had to pay for them; as HPs go, second > only to my HP-01 watch. I'm keeping them in a safe place! Joe wrote: > What, you don't wear your HP-01? What's the point in having one, then? Sure, I wear it sometimes. My wrist is a safe place for the HP-01. But not for the HP-10. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 8 13:05:20 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: ~OT: Computer misconceptions In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19990208133725.006cf938@cadvision.com> Message-ID: <199902090005.TAA08184@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 Feb 99 at 13:37, Mark Gregory wrote: > I'll see your $50, and raise you $15 (Canadian): > my A1200/HD40 was $10 at a thrift, and the power supply (bought later) was > another $5. > I love being behind the technology curve! > > :v) > > Mark. > > Don't know if this compares, but an A2000 with an additional 5 1/4 hooked to a Bridgeboard and a 30M HD for $10. Unfortunately I haven't yet got the #$$^#$& B-B functioning. So no 2nd fdd, no HD, and no info on a small mystery card with a mini-din connector also in a ISA slot. Problem is when your behind the technology curve, you also have a steeper learning curve, but it's better than being on the bleeding edge. In Can$ that works out to about 50 cents of course. If it wasn't so cold up here we could be a "banana republic", if we dropped the queen. BTW there is a CoCo emulator for Atari STs. :^)) ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 8 18:19:41 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: some finds... Message-ID: <199902090019.AA01507@world.std.com> Recent finds and far more on topic! Ti99/4a with a slew of carts and docs... I already have three! Commadore 128, 1571 disk, some docs and software. This puppy is one I've wanted to play with and plan to keep. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 8 17:40:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <19990208214359.1828.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 8, 99 09:43:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/e8f555a9/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Feb 8 19:22:45 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? Message-ID: <005701be53ca$b32b2140$c52c67cb@canopus.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999 5:10 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? >Hi, I have a few OT questions. I hope no one minds. Not me. Well, not much. >1. I have a nasty hangnail that won't go away. Any suggestions how to get >rid of it? If you mean an overgrown finger/toe nail, sidecutters work well. On the nail, that is. Amputation of the extremity is probably not justified in this case. >2. Everyone know about Cuban cigars... but are Cuban cigarettes better than >American cigarettes? Are they also illegal? Nope. Not here. Neither are Cuban cigars for that matter. Just expensive. Most tobacconists don't stock many. Smoking in many public places is illegal these days however. >3. I've heard rumors that Cabaret Voltaire and KISS are going on tour >together soon! Is it true? How can I get tickets? Can't help with this one. P.S. It's not hard to type tounge in cheek, talking that way is much more difficult. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax) From rcini at msn.com Mon Feb 8 19:27:54 1999 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Off Topic? Anyone have manual for IBM 4019 Message-ID: <00ac01be53cb$6e6c2440$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> I got an old IBM laser printer this weekend from a friend of mine. It's the IBM 4019. It's not a Lexmark one, but one of the old workhorse "leave it running 24/7 and it'll outlive all of us" IBM printers. Weighs a ton. Does anyone have a spare manual for it that I can get? Thanks! [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 8 21:11:23 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: References: <004d01be5389$f96d7e00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990208211123.0c8f8566@intellistar.net> At 06:58 PM 2/8/99 +0000, Tony D. wrote: >> >KISS = the original HP10, yes? Can't think of any reason the take that >machine anywere.... Except to the nearest E-bay auction! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 8 21:23:53 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: [OT] Zero-point energy (was Re: 3-phase (was: Re: CDC 9766 Drive a... In-Reply-To: <4db47a14.36bf0452@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990208212353.0fa758f4@intellistar.net> At 10:35 AM 2/8/99 EST, you wrote: > >I've a small drill press with a (bad?) capacitor start motor that only seems >to start up once out of every 300 presses of the on switch. does spinning the >motor and then cycling the power really work?? > Yes, If you have a capacitor start motor. If you motor is capacitor run then it won't work. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 8 21:31:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts In-Reply-To: <36BF3DA3.9B3786C5@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990208213130.0fa75cee@intellistar.net> At 01:40 PM 2/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >Greetings, > >Attached is an archive posting regarding belts for the HP-85 calc. Yeah, I wrote that. I've since found a source for the belts. I'll sell you individual belts for a lot less than $50. I don't remember the exact price but it's about $10/belt. Joe > >Has anyone found a source for these belts with less than $50.00 >minimum orders? > >Thanks all. > >Michael Grigoni >Cybertheque Museum >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\BELTS.TXT" > From bmahoney at sprint.ca Mon Feb 8 21:34:19 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: some finds... References: <199902090019.AA01507@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36BFACBB.5D578520@sprint.ca> Nice find Alison! The best thing about the 128 was the color monitor that may/may not have come with it. You can use it for a CGA monitor with an XT et al and as a vcr/tv tuner monitor as well. Of course it has a 64 chip in it as well as a CP/M. I have lots of info and peripherals and software if you need anything. Pocket Writer 128 is a good WP and, believe it or not, it is still available retail. Brian Mahoney Allison J Parent wrote: > Recent finds and far more on topic! > > Ti99/4a with a slew of carts and docs... I already have three! > > Commadore 128, 1571 disk, some docs and software. > This puppy is one I've wanted to play with and plan to keep. > > Allison -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 8 21:36:00 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] In-Reply-To: <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990208213600.2507b1a8@intellistar.net> At 02:39 PM 2/8/99 -0800, you wrote: >>Especially given how much money I had to pay for them; as HPs go, second >only >>to my HP-01 watch. I'm keeping them in a safe place! > >What, you don't wear your HP-01? What's the point in having one, then? Yeah, that's like owning a classic car and not driving it! > >- Joe > >P.S. My HP-01 didn't come with the little key-presser stylus thingie. What's >the best hack replacement anyone has come up with? FWIW I've been told that the pen stylus was a stock Cross brand pen with a plastic insert. > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 8 21:39:34 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] In-Reply-To: <19990208235516.2723.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990208213934.0c8f0204@intellistar.net> At 11:55 PM 2/8/99 -0000, Eric wrote: >I wrote about the HP-10: >> Especially given how much money I had to pay for them; as HPs go, second >> only to my HP-01 watch. I'm keeping them in a safe place! > >Joe wrote: >> What, you don't wear your HP-01? What's the point in having one, then? > >Sure, I wear it sometimes. My wrist is a safe place for the HP-01. I can confirm that. He wore it to the HP conference in Portland last summer. I think he held onto it with the other hand the whole time though. There were a too many people there that wanted one! Joe From joe at barrera.org Mon Feb 8 19:40:56 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] Message-ID: <041601be53cd$3d8b6820$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> > FWIW I've been told that the pen stylus was a stock Cross brand pen with >a plastic insert. Sorry, I wasn't clear. There's the pen-sized stylus -- which I have -- and then there's a little stylus thing that's supposed to fit into a small space on the flat closing part of the watch band. I don't have the latter. - Joe From joe at barrera.org Mon Feb 8 19:52:46 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] Message-ID: <045601be53ce$e4bf4020$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> 1 x http://www.hpmuseum.org/01styli.jpg == 1000 x (words) From svs at ropnet.ru Mon Feb 8 19:54:28 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Translation of Russian Computer article In-Reply-To: <000b01be53af$aafde220$a2f438cb@a.davie>; from Andrew Davie on Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 09:09:16AM +1100 References: <01BE537F.0821D6E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> <000b01be53af$aafde220$a2f438cb@a.davie> Message-ID: <19990209045428.08166@firepower> On Tue, Feb 09, 1999 at 09:09:16AM +1100, Andrew Davie wrote: > Machine-translation, beware. > Translated Russian is a bit hard to read, but this one was interesting. What's the URL of the original? -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 8 19:58:41 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] In-Reply-To: <041601be53cd$3d8b6820$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > Sorry, I wasn't clear. There's the pen-sized stylus -- which I have -- and > then there's a little stylus thing that's supposed to fit into a small space > on the flat closing part of the watch band. I don't have the latter. Perhaps a pic would help: http://www.hpmuseum.org/01styli.jpg BTW, one of those toys recently went for $1200 on oy-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62066369 I don't get it. It's not programmable. Not even RPN. I'd rather have an HP-IB clock module hanging around my neck (or a DataLink watch with uploadable wrist-apps, of course). -- Doug From svs at ropnet.ru Mon Feb 8 20:06:41 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Soviet "Small Computers Series" Message-ID: <19990209050641.12464@firepower> G'day, I've got a book "Sistema Malykh Elektronnykh Vychislitel'nykh Mashin (SM EVM) -- Katalog razrabotannykh i ispytannykh tekhnicheskikh i programmnykh sredstv", 1979. ("Small Computers Series: Catalog of designed and tested hardware and software") It covers machines of first "pass" -- SM-1, SM-2 (HP 2100s), SM-3 and SM-4 (Unibus PDP-11s). I've attached its table of contents with my notes. The file is in koi8-r charset; it is best viewed in Lynx 2.8.1, even if you don't have Cyrillic fonts. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/a99e5fcf/sm-evm.koi.html From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Feb 8 20:29:08 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:03 2005 Subject: Mark-8 and Jon Titus In-Reply-To: References: <000a01be53a9$c17066a0$a2f438cb@a.davie> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990208182908.00928b30@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:37 PM 2/8/99 -0500, Doug wrote: > >There's a scan of the Mark-8 cover on my soon-to-be-published "First PC" >page: > http://www.blinkenlights.com/pc.shtml > >Oops, I guess it's published now. > >I also have a CD-R with scematics and other goodies courtesy of another >list member whom I'm sure will come forward as soon as he reads this >thread. No great mystery there... It was me. I received permission from the publisher to distribute copies of the original article and PC layouts to interested hobbiests. While there were no particular restrictions placed on the permission, I offered them at a 'cost of materials and postage' rate of $5.00 for the CD-R. Note: the original PC board layouts from the booklet (which is reproduced on the CD) were overexposed in the original printing, and would require cleanup before they could be used to make boards. Also... the Mark-8 cover has been on the main page of my web site for some time now... As to a '1999' version... I'd love to see it. I was planning to do it (for probably 2+ years now) but so far time has not permitted. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From manney at hmcltd.net Mon Feb 8 20:25:53 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: OT: Y2K (reprise) Message-ID: <199902090226.SAA06503@mxu1.u.washington.edu> There was some discussion a few weeks ago about the Y2K problem as it affected airlines. Someone said that no airlines would be flying due to lack of insurance. I just heard from TWA (took 'em a week. Suppose they've been getting lessons from HP?) They said they were not aware of it. manney From manney at hmcltd.net Mon Feb 8 20:33:18 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <199902090232.SAA07233@mxu1.u.washington.edu> >Some hard drives will cause the above message if the 0 track has been altered (written over) linux is >well know for this and the only way I know to resolve this is to low level format the drive. A lot of 386 and >early 486 Award BIOS machines have an option of hard drive utility. If you do you're all set. I chose a 3 >for the interleave value. Not on an IDE, though! That's a LLF. From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 8 20:35:52 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: OT: Y2K (reprise) In-Reply-To: <199902090226.SAA06503@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, PG Manney wrote: > There was some discussion a few weeks ago about the Y2K problem as it > affected airlines. Someone said that no airlines would be flying due to lack > of insurance. > > I just heard from TWA (took 'em a week. Suppose they've been getting lessons > from HP?) They said they were not aware of it. That's because it was wild unfounded speculation: the most dangerous aspect of the Y2K "problem." It probably won't be safe to travel on that day, though. One fairly safe bit of speculation is that there will be a lot of drunks on the road that day. -- Doug From fpp at concentric.net Mon Feb 8 21:25:45 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (F. Paul Passmore III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <01BE5398.D42547E0@ts029d03.lax-ca.concentric.net> Just going from my experience. I recently installed Linux on a 1.2gb IDE drive. Then I fdisk-ed and removed all partitions. Then formatted and got same NO ROM BASIC. This is the drive I used the low level format on and it has been working great with no problems since. -----Original Message----- From: PG Manney [SMTP:manney@hmcltd.net] Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:33 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: no rom basic >Some hard drives will cause the above message if the 0 track has been altered (written over) linux is >well know for this and the only way I know to resolve this is to low level format the drive. A lot of 386 and >early 486 Award BIOS machines have an option of hard drive utility. If you do you're all set. I chose a 3 >for the interleave value. Not on an IDE, though! That's a LLF. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3384 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990208/1f7cf756/attachment.bin From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 8 21:31:57 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: some finds... Message-ID: <199902090331.AA01969@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902090347.WAA12727@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 19:25:45 -0800 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "F. Paul Passmore III" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: RE: no rom basic Originally to: "'classiccmp@u.washington.edu'" > Just going from my experience. I recently installed Linux on a 1.2gb IDE > drive. Then I fdisk-ed and removed all partitions. Then formatted and got > same NO ROM BASIC. This is the drive I used the low level format on and it > has been working great with no problems since. Hi Paul, Have you done that? fdisk /mbr You done exactly right on everything except LLF which is big NO No on modern drives, potientially losing it! And I did not reach for LLF stuff when I converted back from linux to any OSes on *ANY* hard drives. Jason D. From jlwest at tseinc.com Mon Feb 8 22:22:52 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Help: scanning old computer manuals Message-ID: <001101be53e3$dd47bba0$0101a8c0@jay> I guess what's confusing me the most is that the "line art" setting on my scanner software gives horrible results no matter what type of document I scan - no matter how clear, it comes up trashy. However, as others suggested, I changed it to "256 shades of gray" and the scan is infinitely better. Even after removing the moire/descreen, the letters still look a little "ghosty". I just want to make sure the scans look good for everyone else when I put them up. Thanks to everyone for their input! Jay West From amirault at epix.net Mon Feb 8 22:35:40 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Toshiba 4400 setup References: <3.0.1.16.19990206095329.4657d024@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36BFBB1C.71F7E4CD@epix.net> Joe, PRACTICE :) John Amirault Joe wrote: > Can anyone tell me how to get into the CMOS setup in a Toshiba 4400? > > Joe From bmahoney at sprint.ca Tue Feb 9 01:07:08 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: some finds... References: <199902090331.AA01969@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36BFDE9B.2438DB4@sprint.ca> Yes, you type 'go 64' in the 128 screen or you have a key down when you turn it on. If you don't have a manual, I could look it up for you but there are two ways of getting into 64 mode, as I recall. There were few games written for the 128 and absolutely tons written for the 64, including Impossible Mission, one of the best. Brian Allison J Parent wrote: > > > 64? I know it has a 6502 and z80. > -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 8 23:16:53 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Canadian PETs In-Reply-To: <36BFDE9B.2438DB4@sprint.ca> Message-ID: Save the Canadian PETs: http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C220+A0+R74662+Q250567557 -- Doug From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 8 23:41:50 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990209054150.4708.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell replied to my message about the HP-10: > Ouch... Actually, I can't think of a hackish (as opposed to collector's) > reason for wanting one. But then I'm not a collector. What, dumping the microcode isn't hackish enough? Geez, tough crowd! http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/hpcalc/nsim/ http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/hpcalc/csim/ From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 8 23:44:01 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990208211123.0c8f8566@intellistar.net> (message from Joe on Mon, 08 Feb 1999 21:11:23) References: <004d01be5389$f96d7e00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> <3.0.1.16.19990208211123.0c8f8566@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <19990209054401.4717.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: >> KISS = the original HP10, yes? Can't think of any reason the take that >> machine anywere.... Joe wrote: > Except to the nearest E-bay auction! No, that's where one of mine is *from*. It's not going back. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 8 23:48:54 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS?] In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990208213934.0c8f0204@intellistar.net> (message from Joe on Mon, 08 Feb 1999 21:39:34) References: <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> <02be01be53b3$eab5ffc0$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> <3.0.1.16.19990208213934.0c8f0204@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <19990209054854.4764.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote about the HP-10: > Especially given how much money I had to pay for them; as HPs go, second > only to my HP-01 watch. I'm keeping them in a safe place! Just to make sure that no one got the wrong idea, I have many HP products on which I've spent more than the $500 for the HP-01. Such as the HP E2310A LogicDart, the E3631A power supply, and the 1631D logic analyzer/ digitizing oscilliscope. I meant that I've never spent more than $500 on any HP calculator other than the HP-01, and the only ones I've spent more than $400 on were the HP-10, the HP-10C, and the HP-19C. I'm starting to think that I might have to spend more than that for an HP-81, HP-95C, HP-9100, or HP-9805. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 8 23:58:20 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: no rom basic In-Reply-To: <199902090347.WAA12727@mail.cgocable.net> (jpero@cgocable.net) References: <199902090347.WAA12727@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <19990209055820.4795.qmail@brouhaha.com> jpero@cgocable.net wrote: > You done exactly right on everything except LLF which is big NO > No on modern drives, potientially losing it! I wish just for once that someone would actually cite a specific drive model for which this is true. I've LLF'd many of them with no ill effects. The ANSI X3.298-1997 standard, "Information Technology - AT Attachment-3 Interface (ATA-3)" says that the FORMAT TRACK command is vendor-specific and recommends against systems using it, but nowhere does it suggest that an acceptable implementation would be to trash a drive. I have seen some drives that treat the command as a NOOP, simply returning success impediately without actually doing anything, but I've yet to see one which actually causes any harm to the drive. If anyone cares to present contrary evidence, please cite specifics. I'm not interested in FOAF anecdotes. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 9 00:46:03 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Another manual available Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990208224603.00954100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Hi, folks, OK, got another one up for grabs. This one's a big Motorola 68000 'ExorMACS' manual. This thing is three inches thick, and weighs in at nearly 9 pounds unpacked. I've not gone through it in detail, but I can tell you that it is vintage 1980 or so. Same deal as before; best offer takes it. If anyone would like me to look through it for something specific prior to their buying it, that's fine. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Tue Feb 9 02:05:38 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <002401be5402$fae91680$2a3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> A similar subject came up in a local newsgroup here a few weeks ago. I have attached one message below that might be of interest. >> You done exactly right on everything except LLF which is big NO >> No on modern drives, potientially losing it! > >I wish just for once that someone would actually cite a specific drive >model for which this is true. I've LLF'd many of them with no ill >effects. > Forwarded message: -----Original Message----- From: Rod Speed Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc Date: Saturday, 23 January 1999 19:58 Subject: Re: FDISK-Write protect error > >Joseph Henle wrote in message >news:78bhko$s73$1@east42.supernews.com... > >> I am trying to fdisk a hard drive which indicated there is a non dos >> partition. When I try to fdisk i get " write protect error writting fixed >> disk" I have also tried fdisk/mbr and i get same message. Any suggestions? > >Probably best to completely clean out the first physical sector on the >hard drive and the first few tracks and start again from scratch with fdisk. >Fdisk can get rather confused in some situations and thats the easy fix. > >The simplest way to do this is to use clearhdd from >http://www.sec.samsung.co.kr/support/faqs/faq_view.cgi?no=99&kno=3 > >Note that this claims its a low level format utility. >It isnt, all it does is write zeros in the first few >tracks. It just describes what it does rather poorly. > > From svs at ropnet.ru Tue Feb 9 03:34:17 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code Message-ID: <19990209123417.18687@firepower> G'day, IF (COMPLF(-1).LE.2) IF (RSHIFT(COMPLF(0),32)-15) 360,1108,6600 C IF (NOT(-1).LE.2) IF (ISHFT(NOT(0),-32)-15) 360,1108,6600 7094 PRINT *,'IBM 7094' STOP 360 PRINT *,'IBM 360 (32 BITS)' STOP 1108 PRINT *,'UNIVAC 1108 (48 BITS)' STOP 6600 PRINT *,'CDC 6600 (60 BITS)' STOP -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From kevan at heydon.org Tue Feb 9 03:57:12 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Intergraph Clipper hardware Message-ID: Hi, I would like to get a Clipper CPU based workstation but know very little about what models were made. Does anybody have any information on what machines Intergraph made. I do know that some models were huge dual display + tablet systems. I don't have the room for these but if they did smaller deskside or even desktop systems then these would be of interest. Many Thanks -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From kevan at heydon.org Tue Feb 9 05:38:26 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Mini clearout Message-ID: Hi, After having moved to our new house I am gradually filling the garage with stuff I have had in storage while the move happened. As part of this process I am finding things I didn't even know that I had and things that I don't have space for any more. Below is a list of things that I would like to pass on to other collectors. * Box of about 100 8" DEC floppy disks * A number of old DC300 and TK50 tapes. * Olivetti Logos 250 electromechanical calculator * A hand cranked mechanical Olivetti calculator * Communications Machinery Corp Multibus II Ethernet Node Processor ENP-70 * Prime EXL CPU board - I believe this goes with the above ethernet board. * Digital engineering Inc. VT640 Retro Graphics board. I am located in Cambridge UK. I don't really want anything for these items but offers of something to trade would be looked on favourably. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Tue Feb 9 06:01:30 1999 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Mini clearout In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >* Olivetti Logos 250 electromechanical calculator > >* A hand cranked mechanical Olivetti calculator If you get no replies from serious collectors of these things, I'd love to save them. >* Digital engineering Inc. VT640 Retro Graphics board. What exactly is this? Is it like a graphics tablet? From when? >I am located in Cambridge UK. I don't really want anything for these items >but offers of something to trade would be looked on favourably. Your location is great - I'm in London. I don't know what I could offer you. I do have some old HP stuff from the network they had here in the late 80s. But, then again, you're low on space! Nasos. From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Tue Feb 9 06:14:26 1999 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: HP plotters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all. Anybody interested in any of the following? HP DraftMaster I HP DraftPro DXL Both are not really in working order. I'm guessing the DraftMaster has a problematic chip as it shows all this rubbish on the screen after you turn it on. The DraftPro DXL seems to have a mechanical problem. When I first turned it on, it worked OK and I managed to get the test print out. After that it started behaving weirdly. It tries to move the 'head' unsuccessfully and never gets it to where it should go. Very slowly. Apparently HP people were in a couple of years ago (before I started to work here) and they said that repairs would be way too costly and buying something new would be a better option. Of course they would say that - it is usually true anyway. I am hoping that someone could revive these on their own. It's a shame to see them go in the skip, but I do have to get rid of them soon as they take up too much space. I'd take them home if I had enough space there. They _are_ big, so I guess you would have to live near London. I also have some HP 98785A screens (also big), which don't have to go as urgently as the plotters. I haven't tested them, though, but I will if anyone wants one. Nasos. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 9 07:43:19 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Mini clearout In-Reply-To: from Kevan Heydon at "Feb 9, 1999 03:38:26 am" Message-ID: <199902091343.HAA01352@thufir.cs.umn.edu> > > * Digital engineering Inc. VT640 Retro Graphics board. > Ah, the retrographics board. This is an add-on for the DEC VT100 terminal, to allow it to emulate an old Tektronix terminal. The slick thing about this is that you can have both displays visible on the screen at the same time, AND the retrographics has an option for displaying a raster image. OK, so its a monochrome raster image,and the screen is generally green... I used to freak people out by placing a picture of Mr Spock in the upper right corner of the VT100's screen. Everyone KNEW this was impossible to do on a VT100... -Lawrence LeMay From steverob at hotoffice.com Tue Feb 9 08:30:14 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Mark-8 and Jon Titus Message-ID: <01BE540E.CC829DA0.steverob@hotoffice.com> > > I'm interested in a project for a 1999 Mark-8. Anyone else want a replica? > Perhaps... What would the scope of such a project be? Steve Robertson - From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 08:59:06 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: no rom basic Message-ID: <19990209151538256.AAA229@fuj04> An important thing to keep in mind, however, is that not all drives adhere to the latest, or even the more recent standard. Since this discussions centers around old hardware, I'd be REALLY careful with ide interfaced devices. Case in point: I once used a number of MAXTOR MXT540A drives, which were WONDERFUL . . . they were fast, (6300 rpm at a time when most were 3600 rpm) beyond belief at the time and very reliable. After a couple of years, Hitachi came out with a nice CDROM drive, the 7730 (?) of which I bought a number. Unfortunately, when I placed the HITACHI CDROM as a slave on the same cable with the MAXTOR HDD as master, the servo on the HDD was overwritten, which I only was able to verify after destroying (irreparably, because the hardware with which to rewrite the servo didn't exist at MAXTOR any more even though the drives were still within their two-year warranty) half a dozen such hard disks. The CDROM certainly claimed to adhere to existing convention, as did the HDD. MAXTOR was not able to explain the malfunction, nor were they able to replace the drives with anything comparable. --pity-- Dick ---------- > From: Eric Smith > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: no rom basic > Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 10:58 PM > > jpero@cgocable.net wrote: > > You done exactly right on everything except LLF which is big NO > > No on modern drives, potientially losing it! > > I wish just for once that someone would actually cite a specific drive > model for which this is true. I've LLF'd many of them with no ill > effects. > > The ANSI X3.298-1997 standard, "Information Technology - AT Attachment-3 > Interface (ATA-3)" says that the FORMAT TRACK command is vendor-specific > and recommends against systems using it, but nowhere does it suggest > that an acceptable implementation would be to trash a drive. > > I have seen some drives that treat the command as a NOOP, simply > returning success impediately without actually doing anything, but I've > yet to see one which actually causes any harm to the drive. > > If anyone cares to present contrary evidence, please cite specifics. > I'm not interested in FOAF anecdotes. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 9 09:12:03 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <36BFDE9B.2438DB4@sprint.ca> from "Brian Mahoney" at Feb 9, 99 00:07:08 am Message-ID: <199902091512.HAA10542@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1864 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/c893dbe4/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 9 09:30:25 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <199902090331.AA01969@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 8, 99 10:31:57 pm Message-ID: <199902091530.HAA12446@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3943 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/ee32421d/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgocable.net Tue Feb 9 09:37:38 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: no rom basic In-Reply-To: <19990209151538256.AAA229@fuj04> Message-ID: <199902091535.KAA28860@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 07:59:06 -0700 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Richard Erlacher" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: no rom basic Originally to: > An important thing to keep in mind, however, is that not all drives adhere > to the latest, or even the more recent standard. Since this discussions > centers around old hardware, I'd be REALLY careful with ide interfaced > devices. > > Case in point: Snip! > > > Dick > Dick's one of points are correct! BTW, was that MXT drive has cirrus logic chipset somewhere? That is very well known chipset to not work very well with anything else. Early conner, segates and anything that used it suffered from this problem and blown chip is frightfully common and tend to be slow too. But not this worse like yours experienced with a ruined HD hooked to dual drive configuration! I only see like these usually works very SLOOOWWly several minutes to just move few kilobytes, or doesn't work at all. About 3 years ago I was searching for a high speed HD like MXT and someone has one and wanted over 300 dollars for it. No way! At that time I'm using LPS120AT (rare high performance HD with 256K which makes big difference even to any 128K and spun platter, yes 1 platter, at 4500rpm.) That suffered from teething problems it died 2 times because of that bad rev burned in Discache EPROM. All of my current drives and previous drives since then are always IDE based performance series. I.e. Fireball ST, EX, Medalist ST. Thank goodness (OT!) that Quantum and many others are selling 7200rpm IDE drives now. :-) SCSI is great but it's good for heavily tasked or server where single users machines with IDE is good enough usually. Jason D. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 09:42:41 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code Message-ID: <19990209155912816.AAA152@fuj04> Golly! That does bring back the memories . . . but wasn't the CDC6xxx family 64 bits? I cut my teeth on that one, back in the mid 1960's and it seems that it (the 6600) was a dual-processor version of the 64-bit 6400. Those were the days . . . FORTRAN-II, SCOPE OS, COMPASS assembler . . . batch processing . . . (that meant you wrote your code on a 24-line 80-column "coding sheet" and, when finished, gave them to a woman behind a door with a small window in it . . . and got your error listing a few days later) . . . I'd have given a week's pay for an hour in that room behind the door . . . mini-skirts . . . (you do remember keypunch operators and Hollerith cards, don't you?) Dick ---------- > From: Sergey Svishchev > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:34 AM > > G'day, > > IF (COMPLF(-1).LE.2) IF (RSHIFT(COMPLF(0),32)-15) 360,1108,6600 > C IF (NOT(-1).LE.2) IF (ISHFT(NOT(0),-32)-15) 360,1108,6600 > 7094 PRINT *,'IBM 7094' > STOP > 360 PRINT *,'IBM 360 (32 BITS)' > STOP > 1108 PRINT *,'UNIVAC 1108 (48 BITS)' > STOP > 6600 PRINT *,'CDC 6600 (60 BITS)' > STOP > > -- > Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 9 09:55:48 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Help with LS-DOS 6.3.1 was ( Need a copy of TRSDOS 6 OS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > It also needs X, but I am probably the only person running a text-only > linux box.... Not at all. The 386/25 box that I use as a Samba server doesn't have X installed. Nor a current version of Linux -- when I managed to get Samba working several years ago, all upgrading of that machine stopped -- the only changes that have been made have been to the tables governing NFS mounts and SMB shares. I hear that the new version of Samba is a lot easier to configure, I may try it on one of my other machines -- no way I'll mess with the one it took me months to get working right. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 09:48:45 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: HP plotters Message-ID: <19990209160632979.AAA238@fuj04> These "names" aren't going to prove as helpful as the model numbers. I have a 7585B which is, I believe, the precursor of the Draftmaster series, the principal difference being the presence of a drive for the chart feed and some different body panels. It's not at all certain that the behavior you've described characterizes any malfunction at all. The fact that HP people suggest it's broken doesn't mean much either, by the way. HP has a habit of disposing of people once they've learned enough about anything to be really useful, and their salesmen never get to that point. I do have the manuals for the 758x series, by the way. Dick ---------- > From: Athanasios Kotsenos > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: HP plotters > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 5:14 AM > > Hi all. > > Anybody interested in any of the following? > > HP DraftMaster I > HP DraftPro DXL > > Both are not really in working order. > I'm guessing the DraftMaster has a problematic chip as it shows all this > rubbish on the screen after you turn it on. > The DraftPro DXL seems to have a mechanical problem. When I first turned it > on, it worked OK and I managed to get the test print out. After that it > started behaving weirdly. It tries to move the 'head' unsuccessfully and > never gets it to where it should go. Very slowly. > Apparently HP people were in a couple of years ago (before I started to > work here) and they said that repairs would be way too costly and buying > something new would be a better option. Of course they would say that - it > is usually true anyway. > I am hoping that someone could revive these on their own. It's a shame to > see them go in the skip, but I do have to get rid of them soon as they take > up too much space. I'd take them home if I had enough space there. > They _are_ big, so I guess you would have to live near London. > > I also have some HP 98785A screens (also big), which don't have to go as > urgently as the plotters. I haven't tested them, though, but I will if > anyone wants one. > > Nasos. > From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 9 10:28:30 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code In-Reply-To: <19990209155912816.AAA152@fuj04> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 9, 99 08:42:41 am Message-ID: <199902091628.IAA11182@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1061 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/1bc8018a/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 9 10:47:49 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code In-Reply-To: <199902091628.IAA11182@oa.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Feb 9, 1999 08:28:30 am" Message-ID: <199902091647.KAA17384@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > ::Those were the days . . . FORTRAN-II, SCOPE OS, COMPASS assembler . . . > ::batch processing . . . (that meant you wrote your code on a 24-line > ::80-column "coding sheet" and, when finished, gave them to a woman behind a > ::door with a small window in it . . . and got your error listing a few days > ::later) . . . I'd have given a week's pay for an hour in that room behind > ::the door . . . mini-skirts . . . (you do remember keypunch operators and > ::Hollerith cards, don't you?) > > Hah. My father was a Fortran-II programmer. The extent of his error debug > sessions was > > ERROR > > It took him all semester to do one program, and he was the first in his class. > Fortran II was great. Anyways, the best compiler ever written was MNF. Minnesota Fortran. You had to love the post mortem dumps. It was a breeze debugging college students computer programs, they would come up to your desk with a printed listing and run of the program, and you would point at the post mortem dump and basically repeat to the student exactly what was printed, while simultaneously pointing at the output.. "hmm, says here it stopped on line XXX, in subroutine YYY, and this is what the variables were at that time, so, what was your question again?" -Lawrence LeMay From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Feb 9 11:07:59 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code In-Reply-To: <199902091628.IAA11182@oa.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Feb 9, 99 08:28:30 am" Message-ID: <199902091707.MAA06087@crobin.home.org> > ::Those were the days . . . FORTRAN-II, SCOPE OS, COMPASS assembler . . . > ::batch processing . . . (that meant you wrote your code on a 24-line > ::80-column "coding sheet" and, when finished, gave them to a woman behind a > ::door with a small window in it . . . and got your error listing a few days > ::later) . . . I'd have given a week's pay for an hour in that room behind > ::the door . . . mini-skirts . . . (you do remember keypunch operators and > ::Hollerith cards, don't you?) > > Hah. My father was a Fortran-II programmer. The extent of his error debug > sessions was > > ERROR > > It took him all semester to do one program, and he was the first in his class. Reminds me of the FORTRAN on the IBM 1130 (subset FORTRAN IV, no logical IFs, etc.). Compiler error messages were of the form: eeee at llll + oooo where: eeee = Error code (had to look up in manual) llll = Last statement label processed oooo = Offset (cards) past last labelled statement processed John (who very much wants to see APL/1130 running on Tony's system) From erd at infinet.com Tue Feb 9 11:06:01 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <199902091512.HAA10542@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Feb 9, 99 07:12:03 am Message-ID: <199902091706.MAA04309@user2.infinet.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > The 128 is a really fabulous machine. Its 64 compatibility, though, was its > curse and its salvation: the 64 mode made it sell reasonably well (at least > 5-6 million, as I hear it), but also discouraged people from making programs > that really took advantage of the hardware, particularly the VDC 8563 > 80-column chip which is considered the last frontier in the Commodore 8-bit > world (partially Commodore's fault for documenting it so poorly and providing > such a crappy interface for getting data to it). The internals of one of the C-128 chips led to the stories at Commodore of employees who would randomly pick up a phone to see if someone was there. It seems that a chip designer left off an interrupt from some facet of the video system, and when asked why said that the programmers didn't have to wait for an interupt, they could just check the status bit on the chip. The programmers responded by walking over to the phone repeately to "check the status". It became such a joke that it even carried over to after-hours sessions at the local bar. This and more is detailed on Dave Haynie's Deathbed Vigil video tape. A must-see. -ethan From Jgzabol at aol.com Tue Feb 9 11:14:25 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code Message-ID: Richard Erlacher wrote:: << Golly! That does bring back the memories . . . but wasn't the CDC6xxx family 64 bits? I cut my teeth on that one, back in the mid 1960's and it seems that it (the 6600) was a dual-processor version of the 64-bit 6400. The CDC 6400, 6600, 7600 all were 60 bit, definitely. The Cray-1 is the first 64-bit machine in the Seymour Cray line. Those were the days . . . FORTRAN-II, SCOPE OS, COMPASS assembler . . . batch processing . . . (that meant you wrote your code on a 24-line 80-column "coding sheet" and, when finished, gave them to a woman behind a door with a small window in it . . . and got your error listing a few days later) . . . I'd have given a week's pay for an hour in that room behind the door . . . mini-skirts . . . (you do remember keypunch operators and Hollerith cards, don't you?) Dick >> It does bring back memories ! John G. Zabolitzky From ss at allegro.com Tue Feb 9 11:30:33 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code In-Reply-To: <199902091628.IAA11182@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <19990209155912816.AAA152@fuj04> Message-ID: <199902091730.JAA34400@bart.allegro.com> Date sent: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:28:30 -0800 Subject: Re: Piece of classic FORTRAN code From: ckaiser@oa.ptloma.edu To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Hah. My father was a Fortran-II programmer. The extent of his error debug > sessions was > > ERROR > > It took him all semester to do one program, and he was the first in his class. Ah yes...the 60's technology extended into the early 80's on many mainframes :) Given your birth year, I'd guess your father was doing his programming in 1970-1976 or so. In 1970 I was programming FORTRAN during interactive sessions on a Burroughs B6700 running MCP (hierarchical file system, multi-programming, multi- processing, virtual memory). OTOH, in 1969 I took a FORTRAN class taught at a different school, where we had to use a CDC 3600. In an entire semester, we never got to "SUBROUTINE". My point, if there is one, is that the IBMs and CDCs (and others) of the world have a lot to be blamed for, along with things to be praised for. :) From mrivas at caribe.net Tue Feb 9 14:24:53 1999 From: mrivas at caribe.net (Michael A. Rivas Sr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 Message-ID: <001f01be546a$414ec360$b1c55bd1@r4b6h5> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5162 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/3fd39bbe/attachment.gif From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 12:43:03 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <001f01be546a$414ec360$b1c55bd1@r4b6h5> Message-ID: <199902091843.KAA11772@civic.hal.com> Hi All I have gotten my 4004 development unit up and running. In doing so, I made some tools. I have a simple assembler, disassembler and a simulator. If anyone would like copies of these tools, let me know. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 12:46:23 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Poly 88 In-Reply-To: <001f01be546a$414ec360$b1c55bd1@r4b6h5> Message-ID: <199902091846.KAA11777@civic.hal.com> Hi All I have an old Poly 88 ( the first single button frontpanel S-100 ). It has Tiny Basic in PROMs. If any out there would like to fill the two empty sockets on their CPU board, let me know and I'll have the parts read out. Dwight From a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk Tue Feb 9 12:56:44 1999 From: a.kotsenos at rca.ac.uk (Athanasios Kotsenos) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: HP plotters In-Reply-To: <19990209160632979.AAA238@fuj04> Message-ID: >These "names" aren't going to prove as helpful as the model numbers. Hmmm... I can't see why. If you want a DraftMaster I, you want a DraftMaster I. I think most people would know it as that than its model number. But, here they are for anyone that knows them. DraftMaster I = 7595A DraftPro DXL = 7575A >I >have a 7585B which is, I believe, the precursor of the Draftmaster series, Yes, it probably is, noting the numbers. >the principal difference being the presence of a drive for the chart feed >and some different body panels. It's not at all certain that the behavior >you've described characterizes any malfunction at all. Well, they both are malfunctions. >The fact that HP >people suggest it's broken doesn't mean much either, by the way. Oh, I know that. But, I'm not gonna pay them if they could/wanted to fix it. It is not worth it. That's why I was hoping somebody who has the knack would save them. >HP has a >habit of disposing of people once they've learned enough about anything to >be really useful, and their salesmen never get to that point. Too true. >I do have the manuals for the 758x series, by the way. I should have the manuals for both, but I've only definitely found one of them. I actually found the info for printing the test page on their web site. So, if anybody wants them... Nasos. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 9 14:00:53 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) In-Reply-To: <199902091512.HAA10542@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <36BFDE9B.2438DB4@sprint.ca> from "Brian Mahoney" at Feb 9, 99 00:07:08 am Message-ID: <199902091902.UAA00785@horus.mch.sni.de> > ... my lovely 128DCR ... 128 DCR ? Data Casette Recorder ? Detatched Cigartop Remover ? Did Commodore Retire ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From steverob at hotoffice.com Tue Feb 9 13:12:12 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 Message-ID: <01BE5436.30976D30.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:25 PM, Michael A. Rivas Sr [SMTP:mrivas@caribe.net] wrote: > my brother got a hold of a tandy 1000. when booted up it asks for a boot disk which he does not have. i have two questions > 1) what can i do about the boot disk? > 2) what does a tandy 1000 go for? > << File: ATT00001.html >> << File: ATT00002.gif >> Michael, 1.) I've had several different 1000s and each of them would boot from ROM if a disk wasn't available. Since the ROM included a FORMAT command, you could make your own bootable disk. Some of the models might have worked a little differently. Exactly which model do you have (1000TL / 1000HD / 1000RL ...)? 2.) There were about a trillion of these things made so, the value is pretty low. I have seen them for as little as $10 at the flea market without a monitor or hard drive. The monitor could cost another $10 to $15. The hard drive with OS might add another $10. So, the value of the complete working system would probably be in the $30 - $50 range... Regards, Steve Robertson - From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Feb 9 14:11:08 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 In-Reply-To: <001f01be546a$414ec360$b1c55bd1@r4b6h5> Message-ID: <199902091913.UAA01380@horus.mch.sni.de> > my brother got a hold of a tandy 1000. when booted up it asks for a boot > disk which he does not have. i have two questions > 1) what can i do about the boot disk? get some > 2) what does a tandy 1000 go for? 10 USD per reader of your big gif atatchment. (Otherwise sill less than 20 per unit) Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Tue Feb 9 13:24:53 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 In-Reply-To: <001f01be546a$414ec360$b1c55bd1@r4b6h5> Message-ID: <000501be5461$de53fe40$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 5162 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/e6fb94a1/attachment.gif From joe at barrera.org Tue Feb 9 13:59:31 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) Message-ID: <01f001be5466$b5f6f290$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> >> ... my lovely 128DCR ... > >128 DCR ? >Data Casette Recorder ? >Detatched Cigartop Remover ? >Did Commodore Retire ? My TVC-15? - Joe P.S. I swear, one day I'll post something useful to this list. From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 9 14:09:39 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) In-Reply-To: <199902091902.UAA00785@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 9, 99 08:01:53 pm Message-ID: <199902092009.MAA14300@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/17788fe3/attachment.ksh From gareth.knight2 at which.net Tue Feb 9 06:43:38 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Amiga Crisis, (was MEI/Microcenter is out of 5-1/4" diskettes) Message-ID: <001401be546a$0c564700$2107fea9@gaz> Zane H. Healy wrote: >As I understand it the Amiga software industry is in a bit of a crisis at >the moment because 3.5" DD floppies are no longer being made. Well, >they're also in a bit of a crisis thanks to the idiots running Amiga, Inc. >killing the market last spring when it will be quite a while before the new >Amiga is ready to ship. You're right about the disk crisis. Amiga magazines are falling over themselves to get a decent supply of DD disks. As for Amiga Inc killing the market, quite probably but from what I have heard the new OS is closer to release than everyone thinks (whatever that means) and as soon as I have enough money I'll buy a Viper PPC with a G3 processor. The Amiga dead? hardly? -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From gareth.knight2 at which.net Tue Feb 9 07:35:34 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: Unix for 8080/Z80? [Re: WooHoo!! PC/XT Unix anyone?] Message-ID: <001501be546a$0d8466c0$2107fea9@gaz> Richard Erlacher wrote on 23 January 1999 23:08 >This notion of cooking up or breathing new life into an old 8-bit model to >run *NIX is probably a mite more than has been considered for one reason. >*NIX tends to want to use virtual memory, without which many systems would >quickly choke. The old CPM-capables don't support VM. A good reason for >this is probably the lack of performance. Many people have added VM support to applications running on non-MMU hardware with little loss of performance. The Amiga has a few of these, most notably Personal Paint by Cloanto. It can be done. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 9 14:26:51 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:04 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 In-Reply-To: <01BE5436.30976D30.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > 1.) I've had several different 1000s and each of them would boot from ROM > if a disk wasn't available. Since the ROM included a FORMAT command, you > could make your own bootable disk. I believe only the Tandy 1000HX had DOS 2.11 in ROM. All other T1000's do not. > 2.) There were about a trillion of these things made so, the value is > pretty low. I have seen them for as little as $10 at the flea market > without a monitor or hard drive. The monitor could cost another $10 to $15. > The hard drive with OS might add another $10. > > So, the value of the complete working system would probably be in the $30 - > $50 range... I concur with this assessment. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 9 14:39:14 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 In-Reply-To: <01BE5436.30976D30.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > 1.) I've had several different 1000s and each of them would boot from ROM > if a disk wasn't available. Since the ROM included a FORMAT command, you > could make your own bootable disk. > > Some of the models might have worked a little differently. Exactly which > model do you have (1000TL / 1000HD / 1000RL ...)? The original Tandy 1000, 1000HD and a couple of others didn't have the DOS ROM, that was added a couple of years into the history of the product line. But any stock 360k MS-DOS will work, though there were a few utilities unique to the 1000 on the official version. But every Radio Shack store is supposed to have a CD that can be used to recreate old Tandy DOS, Setup and utility disks for any of the Tandy PC compatibles -- this of course leaves out the Tandy 2000 and any of Tandy's real computers. Where do we suddenly get two people in one day with attached graphics? And the one _must_ have been reading this list for a while, he'd copied a quote that I composed while listening to the song I took it from. And you don't find Michael Longcor tapes at your local Sam Goody's. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 9 14:50:57 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code In-Reply-To: <199902091730.JAA34400@bart.allegro.com> from "ss@allegro.com" at Feb 9, 99 09:30:33 am Message-ID: <199902092050.MAA11348@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 755 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/01f0d512/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 9 14:56:01 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <199902091706.MAA04309@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 9, 99 12:06:01 pm Message-ID: <199902092056.MAA09390@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1852 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/1cde503d/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 14:50:02 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <19990209210706842.AAA72@fuj04> Good Work! Now, do these tools run on the machine itself, or do they require cross-development? Either one's fine, of course. What do you have your machine doing? Dick ---------- > From: Dwight Elvey > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Intel 4004 > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:43 AM > > Hi All > I have gotten my 4004 development unit up and running. > In doing so, I made some tools. I have a simple > assembler, disassembler and a simulator. If anyone > would like copies of these tools, let me know. > Dwight From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 14:56:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Piece of classic FORTRAN code Message-ID: <19990209211339487.AAA147@fuj04> Yes . . . that's how I remember it, too. Those irritating core dumps were always recongnizable as they went through the line printer, since they sounded like a chef chopping celery. I never did get to where I could actually gain anything from a core dump. I guess it hasn't changed much, though the dumps Windows95 gives you when a process goes askew aren't as long. Dick ---------- > From: Lawrence LeMay > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Piece of classic FORTRAN code > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:47 AM > > > ::Those were the days . . . FORTRAN-II, SCOPE OS, COMPASS assembler . . From erd at infinet.com Tue Feb 9 15:01:47 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <199902092056.MAA09390@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Feb 9, 99 12:56:01 pm Message-ID: <199902092101.QAA09338@user2.infinet.com> > That's the VDC :-) The designer brightly explained to Bil Herd that you didn't > need the chip to send an IRQ when the screen was done drawing because you > could just poll it over and over. Even my computer-illiterate mother laughed > her head off when I told her about the Commodore engineers in the bar and > "ringer-less telephones" (just pick it up over and over and over ...). Exactly. I'd spaced out on some of those details. > ::This and more is detailed on Dave Haynie's Deathbed Vigil video tape. A > ::must-see. > > Anywhere I can get it from? Dave was indispensible for the 7501/Plus4 sections > of Secret Weapons of Commodore. I bought my copy from Dale Larson. I'm pretty sure it's an out of stock item. -ethan From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 15:09:09 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: HP plotters Message-ID: <19990209212612961.AAA195@fuj04> You'll need to find someone local with a pickup truck, since you probably won't find anyone willing to pay what it costs to ship it. I paid $385 to ship mine from Pennsylvania to Denver. The "Draftmaster" 7596, I believe, that we had at work weighed considerably more than mine, though it didn't plot faster, or, in any detectable way, differently. It cost and weighed more, and was more massive in its appearance. It was, however, an excellent device. one more thing . . . imbedded below. Dick ---------- > From: Athanasios Kotsenos > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: HP plotters > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:56 AM > > > >I do have the manuals for the 758x series, by the way. > > I should have the manuals for both, but I've only definitely found one of them. > I actually found the info for printing the test page on their web site. > Well, I've had several people inquire about reproducing the two massive manuals, nearly 1k pages each. I sent the manuals (user guide not included) a Programming Manual and a Technical manual, the latter of which has numerous 11"x33" foldout drawings, and they have sat at the printer's for a couple of months waiting for an estimate on reproducing them to be finalized. It won't be cheap because of those foldouts, which are half-tones. > > So, if anybody wants them... > > Nasos. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 9 12:33:42 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990208213934.0c8f0204@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 8, 99 09:39:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/737c94b6/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 15:28:36 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <19990209210706842.AAA72@fuj04> Message-ID: <199902092128.NAA11830@civic.hal.com> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > Good Work! > > Now, do these tools run on the machine itself, or do they require > cross-development? Either one's fine, of course. What do you have your > machine doing? > > Dick Hi Dick I use a PC to develop on. I don't have enough ROM space on the 4004 system to do very much. The developement system is currently running the code that came with it. It was intended to program 1702A's. It does this well. I am writing code to make a 4 function calculator that runs through the serial line used for the programmer. I've desided to use BCD math since it has instructions built in that deal with doing BCD corrections. The RAM orginization is well suited for 16 digits of BCD for each data value. To get copies of my tool set, down load: ftp://ftp.hal.com/pub/elvey/I4004.ZIP You'll also need a Forth interpreter because everything is in source and not precompiled. I used the Freeware Forth called FPC. You can download a copy from the site: http://www.forth.org/compilers.html I also included tools to convert Intel hex to binary and back for those that need this format for their particular programmer. There are some assembly example files called *.AS4 that will get you started. Let me know if you have any questions. You don't need to know Forth to use the tools but you can do more advanced things if you do. For the most part, the READ.ME file should be enough to get you started. What is your interest in working with the 4004? Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 9 13:05:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <19990209054150.4708.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 9, 99 05:41:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 632 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/aa0bd86d/attachment.ksh From dcoward at pressstart.com Tue Feb 9 15:41:19 1999 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? Message-ID: <19990209133543.392807e2.in@mail.pressstart.com> >On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Mark Gregory wrote: >> Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never >> having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to >> use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last >> a long time! :v) . Sam said: >Wow, this is decidely off-topic. Way off topic. Don't you think this >question would be better served on a more suitable newsgroup? (This reply is Digest delayed) This is not off topic! We don't talk enough about vacuum tubes!(..imho..) First, amplifiers are the most basic element of any electronic analog computer. Second, where can anyone draw the OT line between vacuum tubes and LSI chips? RTL,DTL,TTL, or transistors in general? :) Mark, Check out Vacuum Tube Valley http://www.vacuumtube.com/ --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From william at ans.net Tue Feb 9 15:45:38 1999 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? In-Reply-To: <19990209133543.392807e2.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: > This is not off topic! We don't talk enough about vacuum tubes!(..imho..) Unless it is about first generation computers, all of my vacuum tube talk goes to the Boatanchor list, not here. If we include vacuum tubes, we might as well talk about electronics in general. That would be a mess. Beware, however, that on the Boatanchors list, we generally do like the audiophile types. William Donzelli william@ans.net From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 9 16:15:09 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Poly 88 References: <199902091846.KAA11777@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <36C0B36D.B12D94DF@rain.org> Dwight Elvey wrote: > > Hi All > I have an old Poly 88 ( the first single button frontpanel S-100 ). > It has Tiny Basic in PROMs. If any out there would like to > fill the two empty sockets on their CPU board, let me know and > I'll have the parts read out. If you need docs on the Poly 88, let me know as I have the masters for quite a few of the Polymorphic board manuals. I don't think I have Tiny Basic in Prom, and I would love to get a copy of the binary file! Also, I have quite a few of the CPU, Video, and Disk controller boards, although most seem to be missing a few parts (they look like production boards that didn't quite get built up all the way.) Marvin From erd at infinet.com Tue Feb 9 16:34:06 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <19990209210706842.AAA72@fuj04> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 9, 99 01:50:02 pm Message-ID: <199902092234.RAA10889@user2.infinet.com> > > > From: Dwight Elvey > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Intel 4004 > > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:43 AM > > > > Hi All > > I have gotten my 4004 development unit up and running. > > In doing so, I made some tools. I have a simple > > assembler, disassembler and a simulator. If anyone > > would like copies of these tools, let me know. > > Dwight I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. Thanks, -ethan From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 16:59:06 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Poly 88 In-Reply-To: <36C0B36D.B12D94DF@rain.org> Message-ID: <199902092259.OAA11911@civic.hal.com> Marvin wrote: > Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > > Hi All > > I have an old Poly 88 ( the first single button frontpanel S-100 ). > > It has Tiny Basic in PROMs. If any out there would like to > > fill the two empty sockets on their CPU board, let me know and > > I'll have the parts read out. > > If you need docs on the Poly 88, let me know as I have the masters for quite > a few of the Polymorphic board manuals. I don't think I have Tiny Basic in > Prom, and I would love to get a copy of the binary file! Also, I have quite > a few of the CPU, Video, and Disk controller boards, although most seem to > be missing a few parts (they look like production boards that didn't quite > get built up all the way.) > > Marvin Hi I have a complete working unit. The Tiny Basic wasn't original equipment. A fellow here in the Valley implemented the Tiny Basic from the original Dr Dobs. He put the links into it to do the Poly 88's key board in and console out routines. I got a copy of the PROMs shortly after I bought mine in about '79 or so. I have quite a bit of documentation on this unit and a listing of the original Tiny Basic someplace. We should inventory what we have and see what is missing. I modified my system a number of years ago to be able to use dynamic memory boards, as per a Polymorphic ap note, and also increased the size of the CPU boards static RAM but otherwise it is the original orange box. Give me a few days to read the PROMs into a useable form. Dwight From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 9 19:21:06 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: best hack replacement for HP-01 stylus? [Re: OT: Nasty In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990208213934.0c8f0204@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990209192106.0947119c@intellistar.net> At 06:33 PM 2/9/99 +0000, you wrote: >> I can confirm that. He wore it to the HP conference in Portland last >> summer. I think he held onto it with the other hand the whole time though. >> There were a too many people there that wanted one! > >Like everybody else at the conference ? :-) Exactly! > >To be fair, I've been to several UK HPCC conferences and I've never had >anything stolen, even though I've had a couple of somewhat desirable >machines with me. Yeah, but who can fit a HP 9100 in their hip pocket? I took three red-dot HP-35s, two HP-41s from the space schuttle program and a clear case for HP-35 red dot to the same conference. You can bet I was watching like a hawk! Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 9 17:23:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? In-Reply-To: <19990209133543.392807e2.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Feb 9, 99 01:41:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1303 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990209/503253eb/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 18:07:55 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: <199902092343.AA13664@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902100008.QAA11942@civic.hal.com> mbg@world.std.com (Megan) wrote: > > How about simply making them available from some site somewhere > and sending everyone a pointer... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Hi Megan I have the ftp on a later mail. I would like people that use it or download it to contact me first. I am still making the occational enhancement and will keep a list. The simulator was specifically setup for the SIM4-01 board but could be easily modified for most any hardware. It is just a matter of mapping RAM and I/O's to different variables or arrays. All the source is there so one can dig into it as much as one wants. Most of the changes I've been making are to add comments to some of the less clear coding I did. As I reread it, I often realize it isn't even clear to me and I know it needs a comment. I'm always looking for feed back as well. The entire thing can be easily expanded to deal with the 4040 as well. Anyone wanting to do such, should let me know. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 18:13:07 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <199902092234.RAA10889@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <199902100013.QAA11947@civic.hal.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build > into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode > scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. > > Thanks, > > -ethan Hi Ethan Did it have any of the 4008's and 4009's with it. I know a guy that is looking for these. Also he is looking for 4002-2's. Check my previous post to Richard Erlacher. I have the ftp info there. Let me know how it goes. I'm sure you'll need a little help on the simulator but the assembler/disassembler are reasonable. Dwight From svs at ropnet.ru Tue Feb 9 18:28:23 1999 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: DARO paper tape punch manual(s) wanted Message-ID: <19990210032823.07013@firepower> G'day, The thing consists of tape feeder (model 1227-2001) and punch itself (model 1215-1001). It was manufactured by VEB Rechenelektronik Meiningen/Zella-Mehlis, GDR. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 9 18:35:38 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: <199902100008.QAA11942@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > The simulator was specifically setup for the SIM4-01 > board but could be easily modified for most any hardware. Hi, Dwight. Could you give us more info about the SIM4 board? I've always been somewhat confused by Intel's naming conventions, and since this is a very historically significant computer, I want to understand what's what. Here's what I *think* I understand: Intel made the 4004 CPU in 1971 as part of a complete computer chip set called the MCS-4 (MCS = Micro Computer Set). They also created a few computer systems around the MCS-4, including * the Intellec-4, a full fledged system with front-panel * the SIM-4, a single-board computer for evaluation Did they make any others? I think there were variations of the SIM-4, right? Dates? Thanks, Doug From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Feb 9 21:20:02 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 Message-ID: <01be54a4$3f07d440$9e9ba6d1@the-general> I have an original Tandy 1000, a 1000TL, a 1000SX and a 1000TX. The TL is the only one that boots from ROM. The older ones didn't. I agree in the fact that they're not worth much. The SX and TL were complete systems (TL had an EGA monitor), and the SX and the original were floppy models. I got them all for free, all working. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Steve Robertson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:01 PM Subject: RE: question about a tandy 1000 >On Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:25 PM, Michael A. Rivas Sr >[SMTP:mrivas@caribe.net] wrote: >> my brother got a hold of a tandy 1000. when booted up it asks for a boot >disk which he does not have. i have two questions >> 1) what can i do about the boot disk? >> 2) what does a tandy 1000 go for? >> << File: ATT00001.html >> << File: ATT00002.gif >> > >Michael, > >1.) I've had several different 1000s and each of them would boot from ROM >if a disk wasn't available. Since the ROM included a FORMAT command, you >could make your own bootable disk. > >Some of the models might have worked a little differently. Exactly which >model do you have (1000TL / 1000HD / 1000RL ...)? > >2.) There were about a trillion of these things made so, the value is >pretty low. I have seen them for as little as $10 at the flea market >without a monitor or hard drive. The monitor could cost another $10 to $15. >The hard drive with OS might add another $10. > >So, the value of the complete working system would probably be in the $30 - >$50 range... > > >Regards, > >Steve Robertson - > > > From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Feb 9 21:22:11 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 Message-ID: <01be54a4$8c31db80$9e9ba6d1@the-general> -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:33 PM Subject: RE: question about a tandy 1000 > >I believe only the Tandy 1000HX had DOS 2.11 in ROM. All other T1000's do >not. > The TL series had DOS 3.x and part of DeskMate in ROM. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Feb 9 21:25:14 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000/Graphics Message-ID: <01be54a4$f96a1000$9e9ba6d1@the-general> -----Original Message----- From: Ward D. Griffiths III To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:35 PM Subject: RE: question about a tandy 1000 >The original Tandy 1000, 1000HD and a couple of others didn't have >the DOS ROM, that was added a couple of years into the history of >the product line. But any stock 360k MS-DOS will work, though >there were a few utilities unique to the 1000 on the official >version. But every Radio Shack store is supposed to have a CD >that can be used to recreate old Tandy DOS, Setup and utility >disks for any of the Tandy PC compatibles -- this of course leaves >out the Tandy 2000 and any of Tandy's real computers. > They are? They told me I had to special-order disks from RS-Unlimited for $10 each. >Where do we suddenly get two people in one day with attached >graphics? And the one _must_ have been reading this list for a >while, he'd copied a quote that I composed while listening to the >song I took it from. And you don't find Michael Longcor tapes at >your local Sam Goody's. He was probably using a HTML-compatible compatible (such as IE) to read the mail, and just hit "reply". It's the sidebar stationary image file. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 9 18:34:37 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Off Topic? Anyone have manual for IBM 4019 In-Reply-To: <00ac01be53cb$6e6c2440$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <000f01be548d$2386a0a0$71afadce@5x86jk> I do not have a spare but I do have one and the quick reference manual also. What do you need from it ? John > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Richard A. Cini, > Jr. > Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 7:28 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Off Topic? Anyone have manual for IBM 4019 > > > I got an old IBM laser printer this weekend from a friend of > mine. It's > the IBM 4019. It's not a Lexmark one, but one of the old > workhorse "leave it > running 24/7 and it'll outlive all of us" IBM printers. Weighs a ton. > > Does anyone have a spare manual for it that I can get? Thanks! > > [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > [ ClubWin!/CW7 > [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > [ Collector of "classic" computers > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ > <================ reply separator =================> > > > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Feb 9 19:07:57 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? In-Reply-To: <19990209133543.392807e2.in@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990209195532.009954a0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:41 PM 2/9/99 -0800, Doug Coward said something like: >>On Sun, 7 Feb 1999, Mark Gregory wrote: >>> Hi. I recently acquired a 1950's vintage Gibson GA-30 guitar amp. Never >>> having owned a tube-based amp before, I'm clueless about the proper way to >>> use this amp without abusing it (and it sounds great, so I want it to last >>> a long time! :v) . >Sam said: >>Wow, this is decidely off-topic. Way off topic. Don't you think this >>question would be better served on a more suitable newsgroup? > > (This reply is Digest delayed) >This is not off topic! We don't talk enough about vacuum tubes!(..imho..) >First, amplifiers are the most basic element of any electronic analog >computer. Well, relatively few of us know much at all about tubes/valves. I was rather chagrined to find that the college courses on vacuum tubes and television technology were eliminated late that summer of 1971 just before I got to college. They put me into Basic Digital Logic course or something like that. Fine for me. Nevertheless, I am more familiar with tube designs than transistors. Therefore, IMO, tubes are far off the topic here only until we talk about a specific tube computer or specific tube computer circuit, analog or digital, and keep the discussion on that topic. >Second, where can anyone draw the OT line between vacuum tubes and LSI chips? >RTL,DTL,TTL, or transistors in general? Oh, there's plenty of places to draw it I suppose. But that's something most of us don't think we need to discuss here. There's been more than enough off topic postings in the past couple of months which I've simply deleted without reading. No time for them. I'll help Mark offlist when I get a chance to see if he's already gotten some answers to his concerns from others here. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Feb 9 19:15:41 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Off Topic? Anyone have manual for IBM 4019 In-Reply-To: <000f01be548d$2386a0a0$71afadce@5x86jk> References: <00ac01be53cb$6e6c2440$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <4.1.19990209171041.00caacf0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> It just occurred to me that this might be the IBM 300 page per minute printer. (yes 300 pages per minute!) Is this thing red in color? Does it take tractor fed 12" wide paper? The last one I used was about 12' long, the processor took up about half of that and the paper handler another 2/5ths and then there was the "print engine" which consisted of a tractor feed using "air" tractors (these were streams of air that blew through the tractor holes and pulled the paper) a rotating drum, toner and an ultraviolet fuser unit. One hell of a printer. IBM made them for people like VISA who wanted to print 8.5 million statements in less than a week. --Chuck At 06:34 PM 2/9/99 -0600, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: >I do not have a spare but I do have one and the quick reference manual also. >What do you need from it ? John > >> -----Original Message----- >> I got an old IBM laser printer this weekend from a friend of >> mine. It's >> the IBM 4019. It's not a Lexmark one, but one of the old >> workhorse "leave it >> running 24/7 and it'll outlive all of us" IBM printers. Weighs a ton. >> >> Does anyone have a spare manual for it that I can get? Thanks! >> >> [ Rich Cini/WUGNET From elvey at hal.com Tue Feb 9 19:36:06 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902100136.RAA12008@civic.hal.com> Doug wrote: > On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > The simulator was specifically setup for the SIM4-01 > > board but could be easily modified for most any hardware. > > Hi, Dwight. > > Could you give us more info about the SIM4 board? I've always been > somewhat confused by Intel's naming conventions, and since this is a very > historically significant computer, I want to understand what's what. > > Here's what I *think* I understand: > > Intel made the 4004 CPU in 1971 as part of a complete computer chip set > called the MCS-4 (MCS = Micro Computer Set). They also created a few > computer systems around the MCS-4, including > * the Intellec-4, a full fledged system with front-panel > * the SIM-4, a single-board computer for evaluation > > Did they make any others? I think there were variations of the SIM-4, > right? Dates? Hi Doug The SIM4-01 was made to take 4 1702's for program ROMs and had 4 4002 RAM chips. The board had simulated I/O to act like the I/O that came on the 4001 mask ROM chips. There was also a SIM4-02 board that could take up to sixteen PROMs and had sixteen 4002 RAM chips. The MCS-4 chip set originally included 4004 ( uP ), 4001 ( Mask ROM and 4 I/O pins ) and the 4002 ( RAM and 4 Outputs ). Later additions were the 4003 ( Serial/Parallel I/O ) and 4008/4009 ( TTL level converters ). The Intellec-4 was made later. The Intellec-4 was soon replaced with the Intellec-4/40 that used the newer 4040 version of the 4004. They were bus compatible. When I was at Intel, I think we were the last to use the 4040's in our UPP ( Universal Prom Programmer ). The 4004 used a Harvard architecture and had some what of a restricted instruction set. It didn't even include such things as bitwise AND and OR. These had to be generated by using the add instruction and built a bit at a time. The adder at a bit location is the XOR of the bits and the carry generated is the AND of the bits. The SIM4-01 usually came with a back plane board called the MCB-4 and a PROM programmer card called MP7-0x. Depending on revision, it was designed to program 1702, 1602, 1701, 1601 and later versions did 1702A's. It should also be noted that, as I recall, Intel also made the first EPROMs. The SIM4-01 board came with 3 PROM's with code to program the PROMs. The board, using the I/O space of the ROM's and RAM's, had a 20ma current loop serial. Luckily they were using ASCII instead of Baudit in those days. I made a simple RS232 interface to convert to my PC at 110 Baud. I'll try to get a picture up on my web page for show and tell. Intel originally made the 4004 for a company call Busicom. It was to be used in one of their calculators. It was dropped in favor of a dedicated calculator chip but as we know, many applications were just waiting for the uP to happen. I'm not sure of all the dates but the 4004 was introduced in 1971. My SIM4-01 board has all the date codes in 1972. Many think that the 8008 was the first 8 bit uP but Fairchild was first with a two chip F8 by a small margin. Wow, I feel old. I remember reading about the 8008 when it first came out. Dwight From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 9 19:41:45 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Accidental deletion Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990209174145.009463b0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> I think I might have accidentally nuked some responses to my latest manual offering. So far, I've received one offer from Hans Franke. Was anyone else interested in a Motorola 68000 'ExorMacs' System Manual? Three inches thick and 9+ pounds, vintage about 1980. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 9 20:04:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <19990210022413812.AAA175@fuj04> Actually, I'm not that excitable about making old hardware work. I am interested when someone does some of the things I did with parts with which I didn't. I didn't get interested in microprocessors until the 8008, which, by the way, though still functional when I unplugged it from the circuit board, became a "high-tech tie-tack" which I wore from time to time along with others of about the same ilk and vintage. With all the fascination over the internet and GUI OS's, etc, it's easy to forget that the old 8080 can still process the words and generate the payroll as well as it did 20 years ago. Printers are faster too, I guess, but since the essential demise of multi-part paper, it takes about as long to generate the 4-part documents as ever. Some things will just always be painful . . . I find it interesting to note, however, that you've taken the pain to do this work yourself. Rest assured, it can't be any worse than the tools everyone who worked with this primitive beastie had to use. Dick ---------- > From: Dwight Elvey > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re[2]: Intel 4004 > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:28 PM > > "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > > Good Work! > > > > Now, do these tools run on the machine itself, or do they require > > cross-development? Either one's fine, of course. What do you have your > > machine doing? > > > > Dick > > Hi Dick > I use a PC to develop on. I don't have enough ROM space > on the 4004 system to do very much. The developement > system is currently running the code that came with > it. It was intended to program 1702A's. It does this > well. > I am writing code to make a 4 function calculator > that runs through the serial line used for the programmer. > I've desided to use BCD math since it has instructions > built in that deal with doing BCD corrections. The RAM > orginization is well suited for 16 digits of BCD for > each data value. > To get copies of my tool set, down load: > ftp://ftp.hal.com/pub/elvey/I4004.ZIP > You'll also need a Forth interpreter because everything > is in source and not precompiled. I used the Freeware > Forth called FPC. You can download a copy from the > site: > http://www.forth.org/compilers.html > I also included tools to convert Intel hex to binary > and back for those that need this format for their > particular programmer. There are some assembly example > files called *.AS4 that will get you started. > Let me know if you have any questions. You don't need > to know Forth to use the tools but you can do more > advanced things if you do. For the most part, the READ.ME > file should be enough to get you started. > What is your interest in working with the 4004? > Dwight From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Feb 9 23:07:28 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: OT: Care and feeding of vacuum tube electronics? Message-ID: <01be54b3$419add60$9e9ba6d1@the-general> > >And while an audio amplifier performs a very simple analogue computing >function, I still think it's mildly off-topic. NOTE : I am not flaming >anyone for going off-topic, just stating what I think the boundary should be. > Well, I can relate it in one way to classic computing. I've got an ancient Bell (late 40's) tube amp connected to an old ad-lib card in my 1985 IBM 5170 so I can get better sound than with the teeny 2" speaker that came with the card (yes - it has a mono output). -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From davidfreibrun at home.com Tue Feb 9 12:28:53 1999 From: davidfreibrun at home.com (David Freibrun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <001801be545a$0bf70340$472a0518@cx183395-a.msnv1.occa.home.com> You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:42 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >> >> > From: Dwight Elvey >> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >> > Subject: Intel 4004 >> > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 11:43 AM >> > >> > Hi All >> > I have gotten my 4004 development unit up and running. >> > In doing so, I made some tools. I have a simple >> > assembler, disassembler and a simulator. If anyone >> > would like copies of these tools, let me know. >> > Dwight > >I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build >into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode >scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. > >Thanks, > >-ethan From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Feb 9 20:35:10 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: New find: Calculo Analog Computer Kit Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990209183510.0091ba30@agora.rdrop.com> A new addition to the collection, but missing the documentation... a 'Calculo Analog Computer Kit' from 'The Science Materials Center: a division of the Library of Science' in New York. The box indicates that the unit was copyrighted in 1959. Made up of a couple of lever switches, three potentiometers, a meter, and a pair of flashlight batterys. Looks like the docs probably detailed assembly notes, principles of operation, and expirements. Anyone familiar with this critter, and perhaps have a copy of the manuals for it? (pictures soon) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 9 20:38:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: some finds... Message-ID: <199902100238.AA27458@world.std.com> References: <00b701be5047$96d38fe0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Message-ID: What model HP 2100 do you have? I have an HP 2114 with full docs, including the disk drive (if you look, you should see IOMEC on the drive). I am in the process of restoring my drive -- the relay power sequencer had blown out. I have made a temporary repair, and, after cleaning heads AND packs (first time I have ever done that), and making sure that the head unload mechanism didn't stick (it was sticky - had to degrease it), the drive will now spin up and loads the heads. One thing you might want to pay attention to ASAP is the belt. On mine, because the drive had not been spun up for *years* the belt seems to have started corroding the aluminum drive motor spindle. Had to scrape and clean and burnish it. Jay Jaeger At 09:42 PM 2/4/99 +0000, you wrote: >> >> I'm glad I got the first batch of docs for the 2100 stuff. But given that >> the second batch of HP docs which I did not get went so fast, I have to >> suspect there's some other 2100/21MX lurkers on the list :) One of these > >I have a 2100 CPU + paper tape reader + disk drive. The latter takes >RK05-like packs, and is in very poor condition. The whole lot was rescued >just before it became scrap metal... > >Alas I have no docs, and I think I'm going to need a schematic of the >board in the CPU box before I can do much. I have all the CPU boards (but >not the WCS option), 4 sets of core memory (missing one top connector) >and a lot of I/O boards. > >It is very much a 'to be done one day' project. Yes I am glad I rescued >it, but until I get some more info it's going to be sitting in my machine >room... > >-tony > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger@msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube From erd at infinet.com Tue Feb 9 21:22:10 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <199902100013.QAA11947@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Feb 9, 99 04:13:07 pm Message-ID: <199902100322.WAA14063@user2.infinet.com> > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build > > into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode > > scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. > > Hi Ethan > Did it have any of the 4008's and 4009's with it. No, unless they are 24-pin .6" parts. > I know a guy that is looking for these. Also he is > looking for 4002-2's. Maybe. > Check my previous post to Richard Erlacher. I have > the ftp info there. Let me know how it goes. I saw that. I'll get back to you. > I'm sure you'll need a little help on the simulator > but the assembler/disassembler are reasonable. > Dwight My FORTH skills are a bit rusty. :-( Thanks, -ethan From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 9 21:43:18 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: New find: Calculo Analog Computer Kit In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990209183510.0091ba30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, James Willing wrote: > Anyone familiar with this critter, and perhaps have a copy of the manuals > for it? > > (pictures soon) Oh, you dog! Gimme! I don't have one, but it's been on my wish list for a while. Pics sooner than you thought: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/toy/calculo/calculo.jpg -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 9 22:07:19 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <001801be545a$0bf70340$472a0518@cx183395-a.msnv1.occa.home.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David Freibrun wrote: > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. -- Doug From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Feb 9 22:12:57 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <008c01be54ab$a4993f40$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> "Would you like 4004s with that?" A -- PS: It's a pun. Here in Australia, fries are actually called "chips". -----Original Message----- From: Doug To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David Freibrun wrote: > >> You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > >Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > >-- Doug > > From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 9 22:19:19 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <008c01be54ab$a4993f40$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Message-ID: So, where were you during the wooden laptop pun fest? I was waiting for the one about counting the rings instead of using date codes for wood chips. -- Doug On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > "Would you like 4004s with that?" > A > -- > > PS: It's a pun. Here in Australia, fries are actually called "chips". > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 3:21 PM > Subject: Re: Intel 4004 > > > >On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David Freibrun wrote: > > > >> You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > > > >Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > > > >-- Doug > > > > > From hansp at digiweb.com Tue Feb 9 22:54:01 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools References: <199902100008.QAA11942@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <36C110E9.35B859E9@digiweb.com> Dwight Elvey wrote: > The entire thing > can be easily expanded to deal with the 4040 as well. > Anyone wanting to do such, should let me know. Do you have any info on the differences between the 4040 and the 4004? Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From lfb107 at psu.edu Tue Feb 9 23:07:04 1999 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) Message-ID: <199902100500.AAA127956@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> At 12:09 PM 2/9/99 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >::> ... my lovely 128DCR ... > >::Did Commodore Retire ? > >Oh yeah. Sorry :-) > >DCR = D Cost Reduced > >The 128D(CR) are the 128s with integrated 1571 disk drives. The D series have >flat 128 electronics (16K VDC RAM, 6581 SID) and the 1571 on a separate board. >Externally, they have a plastic shell. They are virtually unknown in North >America. > >The DCR series, which came later, are a one-board design with the upgraded >128 ROMs, 64K VDC RAM and the 8580 HMOS-2 SID. Externally, the shell is >metal. They are the only type of D series 128s sold in America, but they are >also in Europe in small quantities (later German 128Ds, for example, are >really 128DCRs with the German-language EPROM). Despite the name, for my >money, the DCR seems to be more solidly built. The metal case holds my 1702 >monitor (heavy!) without so much as a flex or even a buckle. I haven't seen the FAQ in ages but I think most DCR's actually shipped with 16k of Video Ram, thus "cost reduced." The 64k units were called something else. My 128dCR has 16k. : ( Les From joe at barrera.org Tue Feb 9 23:13:58 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <004201be54b4$2c243750$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> I'm petrified you wood bring this up again, Doug... ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >So, where were you during the wooden laptop pun fest? I was waiting for >the one about counting the rings instead of using date codes for wood >chips. > >-- Doug > >On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > >> "Would you like 4004s with that?" >> A >> -- >> >> PS: It's a pun. Here in Australia, fries are actually called "chips". From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 9 23:31:23 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Off Topic? Anyone have manual for IBM 4019 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990209171041.00caacf0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > It just occurred to me that this might be the IBM 300 page per minute > printer. (yes 300 pages per minute!) Is this thing red in color? Does it > take tractor fed 12" wide paper? The last one I used was about 12' long, No, the 4019 is a fairly bland laser printer. The same exact machine was also shipped with the Lexmark label. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From joe at barrera.org Tue Feb 9 23:23:09 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <004901be54b5$73f51d50$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Doug, I know damn well you don't buy your 4004s at Fry's. Fry's charges too much for them, and you're too cheap. I don't know where you get 4004s, but I get mine at Home Depot -- they're about $0.39 a pound (if you bag them yourself). And the Home Depot ones can usually be overclocked up to 3.3 GHz. (I assume you're talking about the GaAs 4004s -- I wouldn't bother with those old ECL ones.) - Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 8:07 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David Freibrun wrote: > >> You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > >Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > >-- Doug > > From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Wed Feb 10 00:26:21 1999 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: FW: Many older computer related and electronic data books FS. In-Reply-To: <36d51e34.44738345@news.silcom.com> References: <36d51e34.44738345@news.silcom.com> Message-ID: <36c12635.91683704@smtp.jps.net> Folks, this looks like a good one. Sounds like the fellow's getting rid of a whole bunch of docs that are right up the 'Classic' alley. Check the URL listed in the message itself if you're interested. -=-=- -=-=- On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:55:54 GMT, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: >>x-no-archive: yes >> >>I have hundreds of computer-related books for sale for the following computers: >> >> Amiga >> Atari 8-bit >> Apple II series & IIGS >> Commodore 64/128 >> IBM compatible >> TI-99/4A >> >>The majority of my computer books are for IBM and Apple series. There are a >>handful of books for the other computers listed. >> >>I also have a few dozen electronic data books, mostly from the 1980's. I'd be >>happy with $2 or $3 each for most of the data books. >> >>I have a large number of books about DBase III+ and IV books, older releases of >>AutoCAD, and programming languages such as C and Pascal. There are also a >>handful of technical, electronic, physics and math text books. >> >>In general I don't expect a whole lot for old books of any kind, so I'm looking >>for offers in the $1-$5 each range on most, with the exception of some of the >>more valuable reference/text books. >> >>I am trying to sell some of my books because I'm going to be moving >>long-distance in a few months and I need to thin them out. I am trying to >>organize my book list by computer type and sort out the ones I want to keep from >>the ones I want to sell. Unfortunately the list is a bit mixed up at this point, >>but if you have a little patience you can use your browser to search through it. >>Then make offers on anything that interests you and I'll let you know if I will >>sell it for that. >> >>A word of warning: Most of my stuff is at least 5 years old, so if you are >>looking for new or cutting edge stuff, I probably won't have it. If you >>are looking for rare, older stuff, I might have it. Check out my web >>page for lists and details at: >> >> http://www.silcom.com/~tiger >> >>The email address provided above is invalid to discourage spam. My real email >>address can be found on my web page. Thank you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From kyrrin at my-dejanews.com Wed Feb 10 00:27:22 1999 From: kyrrin at my-dejanews.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: FW: Rare IBM machines for sale In-Reply-To: <36C0DB81.4B9C@suffolkonline.com> References: <36C0DB81.4B9C@suffolkonline.com> Message-ID: <36c226ab.91801643@smtp.jps.net> Caveat emptor on this one... -=-=- -=-=- On Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:06:09 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware you wrote: >>From: Fabo >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware >>Subject: Rare IBM machines for sale >>Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:06:09 -0500 >>Organization: LI Net >>Lines: 10 >>Message-ID: <36C0DB81.4B9C@suffolkonline.com> >>Reply-To: dbowman@li.net >>NNTP-Posting-Host: listc03-170.li.net >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (WinNT; I) >>Path: news1.jps.net!news-west.eli.net!news1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.210.0.20!news.san.rr.com!nntp3.cerf.net!news01.li.net!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware:13137 >> >>Hi Folks . >>I have dug in the wherehouse and uncovered some IBMs that we purchased >>at auctio long ago. >>Feast your eyes . >>Please go through my main site , you may even find some hardware you >>need ! >>I will be updating the website in the coming days , please be patient >>and reload often >>http://www.li.net/~dbowman >>Fabo -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From red at bears.org Wed Feb 10 00:41:51 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:05 2005 Subject: FW: Rare IBM machines for sale In-Reply-To: <36c226ab.91801643@smtp.jps.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > Caveat emptor on this one... I feel I should point out this "Fabo" guy has recently caused a minor ruckus on misc.forsale.computers.workstation. Check the thread in DejaNews and form your own opinions if you're thinking of contacting him. ok r. From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 10 00:53:11 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: FW: Many older computer related and electronic data books FS. References: <36d51e34.44738345@news.silcom.com> <36c12635.91683704@smtp.jps.net> Message-ID: <36C12CD6.D0F484B4@rain.org> Bruce Lane wrote: > > Folks, this looks like a good one. Sounds like the fellow's getting > rid of a whole bunch of docs that are right up the 'Classic' alley. > > Check the URL listed in the message itself if you're interested. > > -=-=- -=-=- > > >> http://www.silcom.com/~tiger > >> > >>The email address provided above is invalid to discourage spam. My real email > >>address can be found on my web page. Thank you. If anyone is interested in this stuff, I am in Santa Barbara. This stuff sounds an awful lot like what someone I know used to collect (I got one of my almost mint Pets, docs, software, etc. from this guy) and he is pretty picky about the condition of what he has. From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 10 01:09:31 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff References: <36C0DB81.4B9C@suffolkonline.com> <36c226ab.91801643@smtp.jps.net> Message-ID: <36C130AB.5D78FF2C@rain.org> I *finally* got that &^%$ UMAX scanner working (needed a firmware upgrade and nothing I read gave that info until I started digging through UMAX tech notes) and will start getting scans of the Geniac manuals. If someone is willing to put them on their site, let me know and I'll email the scans as they are completed. A friend of mine and I went over to the university to check out what they had for sale. There was a Sun-3 sitting there, several HP Series II Laserjets, Mac IIs, a number of mini-tower cases (full/empty?) among the other stuff there. The only thing I picked up for who knows what reason was a Data General One Laptop computer with the printer, (dead?) power supply, manuals, and a suitcase that it fit in for $30. There was no response when I plugged in the funny smelling switching power supply and it is now sitting and waiting for time to check it out further. Tonight was the Classic Computer Club meeting, and they raffled off an Amstrad PPC512 portable computer. Neat looking computer but I haven't taken the time to check to see if it works. No manuals, and only the disks that were in the drives came with the unit. The person who raffled it off said it worked the last time he used it. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 10 01:23:03 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <001801be545a$0bf70340$472a0518@cx183395-a.msnv1.occa.home.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David Freibrun wrote: > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? The answer is right inside the message to which you are replying. Look... > >I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build > >into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode > >scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 10 01:33:06 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: <36C110E9.35B859E9@digiweb.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > The entire thing > > can be easily expanded to deal with the 4040 as well. > > Anyone wanting to do such, should let me know. > > Do you have any info on the differences between the 4040 and the 4004? The 4040 was actually very different from the 4004. The 8008 is closer in architecture to the 4004 than the 4040. The 4040 was actually a very different design from the 4004. I'll have to dig up my notes on the specifics, but I'm sure someone will (has) beat me to it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From davidfreibrun at home.com Tue Feb 9 18:30:43 1999 From: davidfreibrun at home.com (David Freibrun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <003e01be548c$97dc62b0$472a0518@cx183395-a.msnv1.occa.home.com> Questions on Intel 4004 chip: -Am I correct in assuming that 4004 is no longer manufactured by Intel? -How many were made? -Is it true that this chip is used the Voyager spacecraft? David davidfreibrun@home.com http://altaircomputers.org -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:23 AM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, David Freibrun wrote: > >> You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > >The answer is right inside the message to which you are replying. Look... > >> >I would *love* some 4004 tools. I have a 4004 that I plan to build >> >into a project someday. It came out of a non-UPC grocery store barcode >> >scanner I bought at the Dayton Hamfest in 1983. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 10 02:49:22 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: (message from Sam Ismail on Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:33:06 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990210084922.11892.qmail@brouhaha.com> Sam wrote: > The 4040 was actually very different from the 4004. The 8008 is closer in > architecture to the 4004 than the 4040. The 4040 was actually a very > different design from the 4004. Not really. The 4040 was just an improved 4004 with more registers, a few more instructions, and a few more select lines (so that it could address more memory). The 8008 was quite different than the 4004 and 4040. The 4004 and 4040 have a more elegant architecture in some ways, such as the organization of the general registers, but the 8008 wins in others, such as the single flat address space. The 8080 is fairly different than the 8008. Aside from using the same names for the registers, there's not that much similarity. From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 10 03:19:10 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff In-Reply-To: <36C130AB.5D78FF2C@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > I *finally* got that &^%$ UMAX scanner working (needed a firmware upgrade > and nothing I read gave that info until I started digging through UMAX tech > notes) and will start getting scans of the Geniac manuals. If someone is > willing to put them on their site, let me know and I'll email the scans as > they are completed. I'd be happy to host them, but I prefer OCR'd scans to images or PDF. I also have Geniac manuals (there were several variations, and I only have three of the variations), so I can split the work with you if our versions match. > Tonight was the Classic Computer Club meeting, and they raffled off an > Amstrad PPC512 portable computer. Neat looking computer but I haven't taken > the time to check to see if it works. No manuals, and only the disks that Does that mean you won? I like the PPC512, but I find it one of the goofiest looking computers made. OK, my turn to brag. Today was a good day. I got: a Commodore 128D a Heathkit 8088 trainer a few BYTE mags and ... an Olson! What's an Olson, you ask. It's a BYT-8 clone. What's a BYT-8, you ask. It's an ultracool front-panel S-100 box originally sold by the Byte Shop in Palo Alto around 1976: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/byte/olson2.jpg It's much smaller than most S-100 boxen of the day. Here's a pic that lets you compare the size to a standard 8.5x11" binder: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/byte/olson3.jpg -- Doug From grant at anachronism.sol.co.uk Wed Feb 10 05:14:35 1999 From: grant at anachronism.sol.co.uk (Grant Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Sun Keyboards -> AT / PS2? Message-ID: <199902101111.LAA12821@gauss.maths.abdn.ac.uk> Is it possible to connect a AT/PS2 keyboard to Sun3/80's? If so, does anyone have a wiring diagram or a souce for adapters? Thanks in advance. Grant Mitchell R&D Software Engineer - Hitec DMS Ltd. gim@hitec-uk.com From kh240463 at cr10m.staffs.ac.uk Wed Feb 10 06:58:55 1999 From: kh240463 at cr10m.staffs.ac.uk (KNIGHT G.A) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard adapter In-Reply-To: <199902092056.MAA09390@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I'm not sure if there is a condition called MissedComputerDumpage Syndrome but I think I may be a sufferer. A friend of mine at the other site at my university (Staffordshire) has just told me the computer department chucked over 50 68040 Apple Macs into the skip the other day. He only managed to get one for himself. What a waste. The only problem is that the computer is missing a keyboard. Is there anyway that you can make an adapter to plug a PS/2 keyboard into the Mac? Any help would be appreciated. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 10 09:00:32 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990210090032.3077399e@intellistar.net> by Mits Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This Item Was A PCC Product (see logo on lower left corner of label) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Item: 5 1/4" Altair Minidisk Basic Disk Version 4.1; December 1977 by Pertec Computer Corporation Micro-Systems Division Copyright 1977 See: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62821235 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 10 07:51:47 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Sun Keyboards -> AT / PS2? In-Reply-To: <199902101111.LAA12821@gauss.maths.abdn.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990210055147.0093a9a0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 11:14 10-02-1999 -0000, you wrote: >Is it possible to connect a AT/PS2 keyboard to Sun3/80's? Not that I'm aware of. The wiring and protocols are completely different (and incompatible). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 10 07:53:46 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard adapter In-Reply-To: References: <199902092056.MAA09390@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990210055346.00949d30@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 12:58 10-02-1999 +0000, you wrote: >university (Staffordshire) has just told me the computer >department chucked over 50 68040 Apple Macs into the skip >the other day. He only managed to get one for himself. What If I had a nickel for every time criminal waste like this happens, I could have retired by now and built a storage facility to help with rescues... >a waste. The only problem is that the computer is missing a >keyboard. Is there anyway that you can make an adapter to >plug a PS/2 keyboard into the Mac? No. The two are completely different and incompatible, in both wiring and protocols. Your friend is going to need a true Mac keyboard. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 10 03:32:25 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <199902092056.MAA09390@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <199902091706.MAA04309@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 9, 99 12:06:01 pm Message-ID: <199902101432.JAA01320@smtp.interlog.com> On 9 Feb 99 at 12:56, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > ::The internals of one of the C-128 chips led to the stories at Commodore of > ::employees who would randomly pick up a phone to see if someone was there. > ::It seems that a chip designer left off an interrupt from some facet of the > ::video system, and when asked why said that the programmers didn't have to > ::wait for an interupt, they could just check the status bit on the chip. The > ::programmers responded by walking over to the phone repeately to "check the > ::status". It became such a joke that it even carried over to after-hours > ::sessions at the local bar. > > That's the VDC :-) The designer brightly explained to Bil Herd that you didn't > need the chip to send an IRQ when the screen was done drawing because you > could just poll it over and over. Even my computer-illiterate mother laughed > her head off when I told her about the Commodore engineers in the bar and > "ringer-less telephones" (just pick it up over and over and over ...). > > These same engineers were also responsible for the pretty please register > on the Magic Voice cartridge. To get it to say anything, you have to write > the registers on the DSP chip twice (hence 'pretty please'). Apocryphal > reports state they were run out of town pursued by engineers with pickaxes. > > ::This and more is detailed on Dave Haynie's Deathbed Vigil video tape. A > ::must-see. > > Anywhere I can get it from? Dave was indispensible for the 7501/Plus4 sections > of Secret Weapons of Commodore. > It would be interesting to see it on video, but I have the files culled from the cbm newsgroup if anyone wants them(I'm lazy , and slow, but if you don't have access to newsgroups... ) Bill re-emerged on the CBM newsgroup not long ago and elaborated on this. Just Bill Herd reminiscing on the time he headed up the Commodore development team, and the pressures to produce. Very delightful and as Cameron says quite funny. You can find them on dejanews under a search for Bill Herd in the comp.sys cbm newsgroup.. Really good stuff on how the development of new systems took place in the wild and wooly earlier days. There should be a word for Tramiel-style development and product marketing (if he wasn't still there, his style was) . In the army it was SNAFU. and Tramiel added "milk it for all it's worth". The Henry Ford or Edison of the computer generation. ( Objections ? Edison was as predatory as Bob Dylan and likely less creative. Read any thing about Tesla) ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 10 08:46:56 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) In-Reply-To: <199902100500.AAA127956@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> from "Les Berry" at Feb 10, 99 00:07:04 am Message-ID: <199902101446.GAA15956@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/2b9cc504/attachment.ksh From erd at infinet.com Wed Feb 10 08:43:13 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Sun Keyboards -> AT / PS2? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990210055147.0093a9a0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Feb 10, 99 05:51:47 am Message-ID: <199902101443.JAA19975@user2.infinet.com> > > At 11:14 10-02-1999 -0000, you wrote: > > >Is it possible to connect a AT/PS2 keyboard to Sun3/80's? > > Not that I'm aware of. The wiring and protocols are completely > different (and incompatible). Sun sells an adapter for PS/2 keyboards to Sun4/Sun5 keyboards (DIN-8) On the off chance that the 3/80 uses a 15-pin connector, you can get a 15-pin to DIN-8 adapter, too. The bad news is that the PS/2-to-Sun adapter is $75. It's in the latest catalog. I don't know where to get the 15-pin-to-DIN-8 Sun converter, so I'm making my own for a Sun 3/60 I'm restoring. -ethan From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 10 08:56:24 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: some finds... In-Reply-To: <199902101432.JAA01320@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 10, 99 09:32:25 am Message-ID: <199902101456.GAA14190@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 877 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/35090cf0/attachment.ksh From PB14 at leicester.ac.uk Wed Feb 10 08:11:08 1999 From: PB14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard adapter Message-ID: On 10 Feb 99 at 12:58, KNIGHT G.A wrote: > I'm not sure if there is a condition called > MissedComputerDumpage Syndrome but I think I may be a > sufferer. A friend of mine at the other site at my > university (Staffordshire) has just told me the computer > department chucked over 50 68040 Apple Macs into the skip > the other day. He only managed to get one for himself. What > a waste. The only problem is that the computer is missing a > keyboard. Is there anyway that you can make an adapter to > plug a PS/2 keyboard into the Mac? I'm stunned that any university department could be so stupid. Over the last year my immediate work section has offered >100 five year old computers to other university departments and all machines were claimed within hours. As somebody said, a PC keyboard will not work. Tell your friend to look out for an original Apple Extended Keyboard II which has a wonderful feel and response. They are occasionally advertised on the uk mac adverts newsgroup. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Feb 10 10:18:31 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) In-Reply-To: <199902101446.GAA15956@oa.ptloma.edu> References: <199902100500.AAA127956@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> from "Les Berry" at Feb 10, 99 00:07:04 am Message-ID: <199902101519.QAA09804@horus.mch.sni.de> > ::I haven't seen the FAQ in ages but I think most DCR's actually shipped with > ::16k of Video Ram, thus "cost reduced." The 64k units were called something > ::else. My 128dCR has 16k. : ( > Are you sure you have a DCR then? The shell should be metal. All the DCRs I've > seen have 64K. There are Metal and Plasic units that have the drive electonics integrated (so they are DCR or ?) I always use the term 'Hong Kong 128' and 'Deutscher 128'. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 10 10:09:09 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard adapter In-Reply-To: from "KNIGHT G.A" at Feb 10, 99 12:58:55 pm Message-ID: <199902101609.IAA09432@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 550 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/750c03da/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 10 10:26:50 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) In-Reply-To: <199902101519.QAA09804@horus.mch.sni.de> from "Hans Franke" at Feb 10, 99 04:19:31 pm Message-ID: <199902101626.IAA13886@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/f0eb1df0/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 10 12:54:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Mac keyboard adapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990210125452.30675f34@intellistar.net> At 03:11 PM 2/10/99 +0100, you wrote: > >As somebody said, a PC keyboard will not work. Tell your friend to >look out for an original Apple Extended Keyboard II which has a >wonderful feel and response. They are occasionally advertised on the >uk mac adverts newsgroup. > I've got some Apple Extended Keyboards but I'm in Florida. If you want one bad enough to pay shipping or if you know someone that caan pick one up in in Orlando we can work out something. Joe From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 10 11:03:13 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff References: Message-ID: <36C1BBD1.D9064A40@rain.org> Doug wrote: > OK, my turn to brag. Today was a good day. I got: > a Commodore 128D > a Heathkit 8088 trainer > a few BYTE mags > and ... an Olson! > > What's an Olson, you ask. It's a BYT-8 clone. What's a BYT-8, you ask. > It's an ultracool front-panel S-100 box originally sold by the Byte Shop > in Palo Alto around 1976: IIRC, the Olson was marketed by Olson Electronics, and I used to go into their Pittsburgh store each time I managed to get over there. Really nice find! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 10 11:07:01 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <004901be54b5$73f51d50$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: Aren't the streets there paved with them? And the potholes are due to out-of-town collectors? On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > Doug, I know damn well you don't buy your 4004s at Fry's. Fry's charges too > much for them, and you're too cheap. > > I don't know where you get 4004s, but I get mine at Home Depot -- they're > about $0.39 a pound (if you bag them yourself). And the Home Depot ones can > usually be overclocked up to 3.3 GHz. (I assume you're talking about the > GaAs 4004s -- I wouldn't bother with those old ECL ones.) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 10 11:27:58 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: <19990210084922.11892.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 10 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > Sam wrote: > > The 4040 was actually very different from the 4004. The 8008 is closer in > > architecture to the 4004 than the 4040. The 4040 was actually a very > > different design from the 4004. > > Not really. The 4040 was just an improved 4004 with more registers, a > few more instructions, and a few more select lines (so that it could > address more memory). I'm getting this opinion straight from Ted Hoff himself. I don't know where my notes are on this and I can't remember the details, but I think there are some significant differences between the 4040 and 4004. The 8008 was supposed to have been based on the 4004 architecture, extending it with more instructions and such. The 4040 was, I think, a whole different design by a different team inside Intel. I'll have to find my notes I guess. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 10 11:36:40 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990210090032.3077399e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > by Mits Inc. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This Item Was A PCC > Product > (see logo on lower left corner of label) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Item: 5 1/4" Altair Minidisk Basic Disk > Version 4.1; December 1977 > by Pertec Computer Corporation > Micro-Systems Division > Copyright 1977 > > > See: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62821235 That does it. I'm pulling out an old dot matrix printer from my collection and an Apple //e. I'm then going to design a label that looks just like the one on the disk in that auction and print a bunch up. Then I'm going to figure out how to make it aged a little (or why even bother...I'll just say its in "excellent condition"). I will then sell these disks on ebay every other week. Don't say I didn't warn you. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Feb 10 11:42:39 1999 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $10 2.50! Message-ID: You'll need a little sandpaper and some salad oil to properly age the label, I should think. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:37 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > by Mits Inc. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > This Item Was A PCC > Product > (see logo on lower left corner of label) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Item: 5 1/4" Altair Minidisk Basic Disk > Version 4.1; December 1977 > by Pertec Computer Corporation > Micro-Systems Division > Copyright 1977 > > > See: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62821235 That does it. I'm pulling out an old dot matrix printer from my collection and an Apple //e. I'm then going to design a label that looks just like the one on the disk in that auction and print a bunch up. Then I'm going to figure out how to make it aged a little (or why even bother...I'll just say its in "excellent condition"). I will then sell these disks on ebay every other week. Don't say I didn't warn you. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 10 13:51:19 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <199802251718.LAA11234@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990210135119.2d5f5382@intellistar.net> Brian, Did you forget to send the rescue disks? I never got them. I bought three more 7300s with manuals and disks yesterday. One is a basket case, one has power but won't boot and the other works but I can't get into it even with the diagnostics disk. I got into the 3B1 that I have by using INSTALL but install and tutor don't work on the new one. The previous owner has forgotten his user name and password. If you can send me a rescue disk so that I can get into this one I'd appreciate it. Joe At 11:18 AM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >In message <3.0.1.16.19980221112523.480f6ac8@intellistar.net>, rigdonj@intellis >tar.net writes: >>Brian, >> >> Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll try them. I bought the 7300 at a >>trift store so I don't have any of the disks or documentation or know any >>of the account names. I expect a rescue disk may be required. hint! hint! > >Ok, just send me your mailing address and I'll send you a copy. It's >really two disks, one with the same kernel version as you have (3.51) >and on with a stand-alone floppy file system with just a few programs >also from a 3.51 system. You boot off the one and then it will ask >for you to insert the root file system. Once you insert that disk and >hit return, you'll get a single user root prompt after a few seconds. >Then you can mount the hard drive: >/etc/mount /dev/fp002 /mnt >and edit the password file: >ed /mnt/etc/passwd >Once you're done, unmount the hard drive: >/etc/umount /dev/fp002 >and you can reboot. > >> Thanks for the URL of your webpage I certainly check it out. > >Hope it's useful. > >Brian > From joe at barrera.org Wed Feb 10 11:51:53 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! Message-ID: <00a301be551e$0bf02560$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Don't forget to do the same thing for VMS source (alpha and vax): http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62831750 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=62837222 These went for $265.00 and $232.50, respectively. Having VMS source would be cool. But were these disks readable? Did they even have anything on them? Who knows. All the seller knew (said) was: Don't know much about this one ... its a four disk set .. I dont have the books or the box it came in. It says on each disk "OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 Operating System" then "Source Listings". Think of the possibilities. NT Source on CDs... Windows 98 source... use your imagination. - Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 10 14:07:45 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990210090032.3077399e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990210140745.45b7ef74@intellistar.net> At 09:36 AM 2/10/99 -0800, Sam wrote: > >That does it. I'm pulling out an old dot matrix printer from my >collection and an Apple //e. I'm then going to design a label that looks >just like the one on the disk in that auction and print a bunch up. Then >I'm going to figure out how to make it aged a little (or why even >bother...I'll just say its in "excellent condition"). I will then sell >these disks on ebay every other week. > >Don't say I didn't warn you. No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way no one can say that you ripped them off. Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. Joe From elvey at hal.com Wed Feb 10 12:19:17 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902101819.KAA14421@civic.hal.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > I'm getting this opinion straight from Ted Hoff himself. I don't know > where my notes are on this and I can't remember the details, but I think > there are some significant differences between the 4040 and 4004. The > 8008 was supposed to have been based on the 4004 architecture, extending > it with more instructions and such. The 4040 was, I think, a whole > different design by a different team inside Intel. Hi Sam From the outside, the 4040 was quite similar to the 4004. The 4040 was in a different 24 pin package but used the same multiplexed 4 bit bus and could use the 4001/4002 parts. There may have been many differences internally. Code wise, the 4040 will run all of the 4004's machine instructions and there were about 10 or so instructions added. There was a slight difference about what was on the bus during the execution cycles. As I recall the 4040 had the ALU available on the bus during the last cycle. I have a data manual describing all of the 4004 and 4040 instructions. As was mentioned, the 8008 was quite a bit different. When I worked at Intel in the late 70's, I worked on the UPP ( Universal Prom Programmer ). I was involved in system test. There were few tools made to deal with debugging these early uP's. I built what I called a "Slow Time Ice". One could remove the 4040 and plug this unit in. I ran a continous clock on the 4040's buss and would take input from a MDS800 or Series II. It allowed one to read/write any of the ROM, RAM or I/O on the UPP. Only one of these was ever built. As for the questions of where I got the 4004, I found it at a local electronic surplus store. I bought the entire setup for $25, as I recall, about 10 years ago. I knew it was a valuable item to save. For those that don't have a 4004 to play with yet, they can use my Assembler/Simulator to play with the instruction set. It isn't quite real hardware but almost runs as fast. Dwight From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 10 12:29:45 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990210140745.45b7ef74@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way > no one can say that you ripped them off. > > Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just > found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. Yeah, but will anyone really notice? Ok, I'll punch a few extra holes here and there. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From joebar at microsoft.com Wed Feb 10 12:29:53 1999 From: joebar at microsoft.com (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Error 33? Message-ID: <011a01be5523$5a77a780$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> We know what "Error 33" means. But why 33? Why not 23 or 43 or...? - Joe ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 10:26 AM >But why 33? "Catch 22" came from a book; "four-oh-four" comes from an >HTTP error code. Where did the number 33 come from? > >> -----Original Message----- >> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 10:24 AM >> >> >"Error 33": when the success of your research depends on the success >> of >> >someone else's research. I think it was coined at PARC, but I'm not >> >sure of that. >> > >> >Marvin. >> >> That's the attribution (PARC) given in the Jargon File. >> > From amirault at epix.net Wed Feb 10 15:43:02 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: question about a tandy 1000 References: <01be54a4$3f07d440$9e9ba6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <36C1FD65.150CF049@epix.net> Michael, I have some TANDY 1000 DOS disks. Email me @ amirault@epix.net. John Amirault Jason Willgruber wrote: > I have an original Tandy 1000, a 1000TL, a 1000SX and a 1000TX. The TL is > the only one that boots from ROM. The older ones didn't. > > I agree in the fact that they're not worth much. The SX and TL were > complete systems (TL had an EGA monitor), and the SX and the original were > floppy models. I got them all for free, all working. > -- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Robertson > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:01 PM > Subject: RE: question about a tandy 1000 > > >On Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:25 PM, Michael A. Rivas Sr > >[SMTP:mrivas@caribe.net] wrote: > >> my brother got a hold of a tandy 1000. when booted up it asks for a boot > >disk which he does not have. i have two questions > >> 1) what can i do about the boot disk? > >> 2) what does a tandy 1000 go for? > >> << File: ATT00001.html >> << File: ATT00002.gif >> > > > >Michael, > > > >1.) I've had several different 1000s and each of them would boot from ROM > >if a disk wasn't available. Since the ROM included a FORMAT command, you > >could make your own bootable disk. > > > >Some of the models might have worked a little differently. Exactly which > >model do you have (1000TL / 1000HD / 1000RL ...)? > > > >2.) There were about a trillion of these things made so, the value is > >pretty low. I have seen them for as little as $10 at the flea market > >without a monitor or hard drive. The monitor could cost another $10 to $15. > >The hard drive with OS might add another $10. > > > >So, the value of the complete working system would probably be in the $30 - > >$50 range... > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Steve Robertson - > > > > > > From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Wed Feb 10 13:13:20 1999 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990210135119.2d5f5382@intellistar.net> Message-ID: Not addressed to me but- 1. You can break and enter an unfixed unixpc from the login prompt. Or 2. If you have the 'System Software' you have the disks needed to take control without reformatting the HDD. Email for details. Bill On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > Brian, > > Did you forget to send the rescue disks? I never got them. I bought > three more 7300s with manuals and disks yesterday. One is a basket case, > one has power but won't boot and the other works but I can't get into it > even with the diagnostics disk. I got into the 3B1 that I have by using > INSTALL but install and tutor don't work on the new one. The previous owner > has forgotten his user name and password. If you can send me a rescue disk > so that I can get into this one I'd appreciate it. > > Joe From amirault at epix.net Wed Feb 10 14:36:21 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: FW: Rare IBM machines for sale References: Message-ID: <36C1EDC5.4A6CD681@epix.net> Hi All, I live in North East Pennsylvania. I emailed him for his STORE address, I told him I may want to come visit and buy something. John Amirault R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote: > On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > Caveat emptor on this one... > > I feel I should point out this "Fabo" guy has recently caused a minor > ruckus on misc.forsale.computers.workstation. Check the thread in DejaNews > and form your own opinions if you're thinking of contacting him. > > ok > r. From arfonrg at texas.net Wed Feb 10 14:33:25 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <001101be53e3$dd47bba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990210143325.009383b0@texas.net> Can anyone tell me how they gigabit ethernet works? How can they get such high data transfer rate and how can the cards process the packets so fast??? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 12:43:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <199902100322.WAA14063@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 9, 99 10:22:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/87ebad29/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 13:01:40 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: <36C110E9.35B859E9@digiweb.com> from "Hans B Pufal" at Feb 10, 99 05:54:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 827 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/517b4db8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 13:10:32 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff In-Reply-To: <36C130AB.5D78FF2C@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 9, 99 11:09:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1948 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/382c8a5a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 13:13:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Feb 9, 99 11:33:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 421 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/9c620e2d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 12:37:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: HP TSB, Docs and O/S In-Reply-To: from "Jay Jaeger" at Feb 7, 99 10:15:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/30c2f8a5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 13:22:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Sun Keyboards -> AT / PS2? In-Reply-To: <199902101111.LAA12821@gauss.maths.abdn.ac.uk> from "Grant Mitchell" at Feb 10, 99 11:14:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 288 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/7aabee2f/attachment.ksh From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 10 15:04:56 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990210143325.009383b0@texas.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > Can anyone tell me how they gigabit ethernet works? > > How can they get such high data transfer rate and how can the cards process > the packets so fast??? A great newsgroup for this sort of question is comp.dcom.telecom.tech. I go there whenever I run into some sort of datacom/telecom snag and my question is usually answered within the day, usually by more than one person. There are lots of smart dudes there. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From bill at chipware.com Wed Feb 10 15:22:20 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01be553b$71ae91d0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > That does it. I'm pulling out an old dot matrix printer from my > collection and an Apple //e. I'm then going to design a label that looks > just like the one on the disk in that auction and print a bunch up. Then > I'm going to figure out how to make it aged a little (or why even > bother...I'll just say its in "excellent condition"). I will then sell > these disks on ebay every other week. Lightly smear a weakly brewed tea on them using a cotton ball, dry with blow drier/hot air gun on low. Bill Sudbrink From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 10 16:19:59 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Intel 4040 - was Intel 4004 simulator and tools In-Reply-To: (message from Sam Ismail on Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:27:58 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990210221959.16079.qmail@brouhaha.com> Sam wrote: > The 4040 was, I think, a whole > different design by a different team inside Intel. Maybe so. But the Pentium and Pentium Pro were designed by a whole different design team inside Intel, and they seem to be fairly compatible. If you look at the 4004 and 4040 data sheets, you will find that it has: The same instruction set, with a few additions The same register arrangement, only with more of them The same bus, but with more memory select lines What it doesn't have is the same pinout. It's not a drop-in replacement for the 4004. But then, the 8008 isn't a drop-in replacement for the 4004 either, and the 8080 isn't a drop-in replacement for the 8008. On the other hand, if you wire up a simple adapter, you can put the 4040 in a 4004 system and it will work fine as long as the firmware doesn't depend on illegal 4004 opcodes or non-existent registers. On the other hand, when you compare the 4004 and 4040 data sheets with the 8008 data sheet, you find that they have Entirely different instruction sets Entirely different register sets Entirely different memory architecture > I'll have to find my notes I guess. I'm certainly interested in what Ted Hoff has to say about it, but if he wasn't actually on the 4040 team, then he isn't necessarily an expert on it. I don't know any of the details of how these parts were designed, other than what's in the published accounts, but I know how to read data sheets. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 10 16:22:33 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <00a301be551e$0bf02560$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> References: <00a301be551e$0bf02560$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <19990210222233.16114.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Joseph S. Barrera III" wrote: > Think of the possibilities. NT Source on CDs... Windows 98 source... use > your imagination. With all due respect to your employer, Joe, I'm imagining being violently ill. Although I must confess that those hypothetical CDs would be of great historical interest many years in the future. Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 10 16:25:01 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19990210222501.16140.qmail@brouhaha.com> William Fulmor wrote: > 1. You can break and enter an unfixed unixpc from the login prompt. Um, I'd be *very* interested in hearing the details of that, since I have a 3B1 Unix PC attached to the Internet. If any random bozo can break it from the login prompt, I'll have to remove it. Eric From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 10 18:57:44 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990210140745.45b7ef74@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990210185744.30778c5e@intellistar.net> At 10:29 AM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > >> No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way >> no one can say that you ripped them off. >> >> Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just >> found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. > >Yeah, but will anyone really notice? Ok, I'll punch a few extra holes >here and there. LOL! that should do it! Joe From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 10 17:11:57 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:06 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990210150857.49b7acbe@ricochet.net> [Amstrad PPC512] >Strange looking computer IMHO. It's the only laptop with a full-sized >keyboard (including cursor pad and numeric pad). The thing is wider than >a PDP11.... Nope... How about the Altima 1 and 2? (See http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/alt2.htm) Not quite the standard layout, but still a full keyboard, iirc. I think also, some of the new machines with the 15" screens have full keyboards. But yes, the PPC512 (and PPC640) are definitely odd ducks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 10 17:16:50 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff References: <3.0.16.19990210150857.49b7acbe@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <36C21362.6B04A41F@rain.org> Uncle Roger wrote: > > Nope... How about the Altima 1 and 2? (See > http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/alt2.htm) Not quite the standard layout, Error 404, File not found? I think the Amstrad looks better :). From bmahoney at sprint.ca Wed Feb 10 19:29:01 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: AES 7100 - what was it? References: <01be54a4$3f07d440$9e9ba6d1@the-general> <36C1FD65.150CF049@epix.net> Message-ID: <36C2325D.266D6677@sprint.ca> Any ideas what an AES 7100 is? I know it's a computer, one piece CPU/display/dual floppies but is it some proprietary O/S or DOS or CP/M? It may be a Canadian only unit, like the Hyperion. It's at the local Goodwill, but it is huge and I would have to sneak it in under cover of night, while the lady of the house is asleep! Comes with a gigantic office printer also,fyi. Thanks. Brian Mahoney -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 10 17:41:37 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990210185744.30778c5e@intellistar.net> from Joe at "Feb 10, 1999 06:57:44 pm" Message-ID: <199902102341.RAA19370@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > At 10:29 AM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > >On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > >> No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way > >> no one can say that you ripped them off. > >> > >> Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just > >> found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. > > > >Yeah, but will anyone really notice? Ok, I'll punch a few extra holes > >here and there. > > LOL! that should do it! > > Joe > Oh man, the original manually punched hard sector floppies.. Those must be worth a fortune! -Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 17:57:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990210185744.30778c5e@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 10, 99 06:57:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/1fdd685b/attachment.ksh From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 10 18:38:59 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anybody have a manual for a Facit 4070 or an HP 9884A? This is a paper tape punch/reader and has a DB25 on it. -- Doug From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Feb 10 18:47:17 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <199902102341.RAA19370@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: <3.0.1.16.19990210185744.30778c5e@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990210164618.00c3b8e0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Are you kidding, these are RARE! and VALUABLE! _prototype_ hard sector floppies. Why if I had one of those I wouldn't sell it for $10,000! --Chuck At 05:41 PM 2/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >> At 10:29 AM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: >> > >> >> No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way >> >> no one can say that you ripped them off. >> >> >> >> Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just >> >> found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. >> > >> >Yeah, but will anyone really notice? Ok, I'll punch a few extra holes >> >here and there. >> >> LOL! that should do it! >> >> Joe >> > >Oh man, the original manually punched hard sector floppies.. Those must >be worth a fortune! > >-Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 19:09:15 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 10, 99 07:38:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 786 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/062717f2/attachment.ksh From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 10 19:32:17 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > I have the service manual and parts catalogue for the Facit 4070 (all > versions of the logic board AFAIK). > > But it's not a punch/reader, it's only a punch. It does about 75cps > maximum, BTW. You're right -- I assumed it was a punch/reader because it had two reels. > The pinout of the DB25 depends on what (if any) optional I/O board you > have installed in the lower slot inside. The default was a 'jumper board' > (just connections) which gives you a parallel interface. There was also > an RS232/current loop serial interface (I have that one, but with no > docs), and I think there was a GPIB card as well (which I have never seen). > > If you have the jumper board or the RS232 board I can provide pinouts. The Facit has board part number 1503 87 20-20, and the HP OEM version has 1149 36 30-10. -- Doug From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 10 19:47:22 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990210165904.494f3f5e@ricochet.net> At 03:16 PM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: >> Nope... How about the Altima 1 and 2? (See >> http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/alt2.htm) Not quite the standard layout, > >Error 404, File not found? I think the Amstrad looks better :). Whups, 404 is the hospital room # my dad is in... it must have worn off on me. 8^) It's http://www.sinasohn.com/clascomp/altima2.htm all spelled out. But, I'll agree, I do like the Amstrad better. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From gene at ehrich.com Wed Feb 10 19:57:03 1999 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Off Topic? Anyone have manual for IBM 4019 In-Reply-To: <00ac01be53cb$6e6c2440$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <4.1.19990210205558.00939f10@popmail.voicenet.com> At 08:27 PM 2/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > I got an old IBM laser printer this weekend from a friend of mine. It's >the IBM 4019. It's not a Lexmark one, but one of the old workhorse "leave it >running 24/7 and it'll outlive all of us" IBM printers. Weighs a ton. > > Does anyone have a spare manual for it that I can get? Thanks! Mine has been running for about eight years and 13000 copies with the original cartridge. I have the manuals but not extras. What did you need to know? > >[ Rich Cini/WUGNET >[ ClubWin!/CW7 >[ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >[ Collector of "classic" computers >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ >[ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ ><================ reply separator =================> > > > > gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale Gene Ehrich PO Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 10 22:25:05 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990210222505.664f890c@intellistar.net> I don't have a manual but I think I *may* have an interface for it somewhere. I have a 9825 interface for some sort of paper tape device but I don't remember it having a DB-25 connector. Joe At 07:38 PM 2/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >Does anybody have a manual for a Facit 4070 or an HP 9884A? This is a >paper tape punch/reader and has a DB25 on it. > >-- Doug > > From MobileCostCutter at Hotmail.com Thu Feb 11 06:40:43 1999 From: MobileCostCutter at Hotmail.com (MobileCostCutter@Hotmail.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! Message-ID: <199902110223.SAA08793@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Hi, You have been referred to us as someone that would benefit from the following information. If you are a mobile phone user then you may be interested to learn about the following. ___________________________________________________________ "Don't pay more for your mobile phone than you have to" ___________________________________________________________ We are an independent mobile phone consultancy based in Hertfordshire that has been formed as a result of the increased competition between the UK's four mobile phone networks. 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We will show you how to achieve cheaper international calls. 7. We will show you how to receive a discounted memorable mobile number. 8. We will show you how you can have two numbers running side by side and pay just one line rental charge. ______________________________ This and a whole lot more! ______________________________ If you require more information regarding the above and what we can offer you then please send an e.mail stating your name, contact number, e.mail address, the network you are with and length of time you have been with them to MobileCostCutter@Hotmail.com. Alternatively, you can contact us on 01438 234961 or send a fax to 0171 681-3495. Please forward this e.mail to other mobile phone users you know. We look forward to hearing from you! Kindest Regards and Best Wishes. Christopher Scott Managing Director From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 10 20:40:14 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <19990210222233.16114.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 10, 99 10:22:33 pm Message-ID: <199902110240.SAA07492@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990210/358141e3/attachment.ksh From joe at barrera.org Wed Feb 10 20:41:30 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! Message-ID: <02b801be5568$08bf7f40$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> >With all due respect to your employer, Joe, I'm imagining being >violently ill. So just exactly how much respect *is* "all due respect" in this case? :-) - Joe From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 10 21:01:26 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Filter time? Was: Re: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! In-Reply-To: <199902110223.SAA08793@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <4.1.19990210215743.00994cf0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 06:40 AM 2/11/99 +0000, MobileCostCutter@Hotmail.com said something like: >Hi, > >You have been referred to us as someone that would benefit from >the following information. -- snip rest of drivel -- Well, looks like some spammer has sold our address to those who distribute email addresses to spammers. Is it now time to warm up the filter on the listserver which would allow only list members to post here? Dammit! --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 21:09:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 10, 99 08:32:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1893 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/cb82f68b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 10 21:11:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990210222505.664f890c@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 10, 99 10:25:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/63e25c16/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 10 21:21:22 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 Message-ID: <199902110321.AA20175@world.std.com> payroll as well as it did 20 years ago. Printers are faster too, I guess, < Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just Guys: I have a NOS PC-jr joystick. The box is kinda messed up, but otherwise, the stick is brand new. Anybody want it? Make me an offer, private e-mail. Thanks. Jeff Jeff.kaneko@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Feb 10 22:45:22 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Seeking CDC Sabre Info Message-ID: <19990210.225246.177.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Guys: I just picked up a CDC 9720-500 Sabre 8" drive (SCSI version). Anybody got docs for this thing? Especially the power hook up, and dip switch settings. (Now I have to scare up +24v @ 3A). A scrap dealer near where I work just tossed three of these that were SMD! Arrrrgh! Thanks! Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 10 23:08:41 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: HP 9825 emulation wanted In-Reply-To: <199902110321.AA23235@world.std.com> Message-ID: Hmm, has anybody started a business emulating old machines yet? << Posted by Julio C. Regidor on 9 Feb 1999, 4:51 a.m. mailto:julio_regidor@msl.e-mail.com I have some test equipments controlled via the HPIB using HP9825's. There are many programs written in HPL, all them in these "little cartridges". Every day is worse to have these machine running. I would like replace the HP9825 by new PC emulating the 9825. Is there a posibility to change the HPL programs to another language (in an easy way) or is there an emulator of the 9825 or a program in Windows that can understand the HPL language and execute it? Of course in all the cases I will need an special card to support the IEEE bus; I will thank any suggestion. >> From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Wed Feb 10 23:18:25 1999 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for Message-ID: Not true! Altair Mini-Disk BASIC was distributed on 5 1/4" hard-sectored disks with 16 sectors (not 10). The MITS controller consisted of two S-100 cards that was mostly TTL (nothing fancy like a 1771). - Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:22 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > > > > < Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 > sectors. I just > > Apple or PCC/altair minifloppy? if yes then wrong. They > were both soft > sectored. It was the 8" altair disks that were hard sectored > and it was 26 sectors if memory hasn't lost a bit. Somewhere in the > junkbox is a Pertec minifloppy controller for s100 that how I know, > it's 1771 based. > > > 10 sector was most commonly Northstar* MDS. > > Allison > From spc at armigeron.com Thu Feb 11 23:09:59 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Recent aquisitions Message-ID: <199902120511.AAA19582@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990212/db3ce2ec/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed Feb 10 23:21:08 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Seeking CDC Sabre Info In-Reply-To: <19990210.225246.177.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > Guys: > > I just picked up a CDC 9720-500 Sabre 8" drive (SCSI version). > Anybody got docs for this thing? Especially the power hook > up, and dip switch settings. > > (Now I have to scare up +24v @ 3A). > > A scrap dealer near where I work just tossed three of these that > were SMD! Arrrrgh! > I have one of these attached to my Prime 2550.. I will plow thru the docs and see if I can find you something... mine is in a tray with power supply and front diagnostic display/keypad. > > Thanks! > > Jeff Cheerz John From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed Feb 10 22:42:56 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? Message-ID: <00256715.001F2D33.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> 3. I've heard rumors that Cabaret Voltaire and KISS are going on tour > > KISS = the original HP10, yes? Can't think of any reason the take that > machine anywere.... Eh? Wasn't KISS a German home computer? Or am I quite round the twist? ISTR it had a programming language based on Deutsch in much the same way as BASIC is based on English? Anyone else hear of this machine? (I expect I'll now find that Hans has one or something?) Philip. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 11 00:06:09 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Seeking CDC Sabre Info In-Reply-To: <19990210.225246.177.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990210220609.0093e650@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 22:45 10-02-1999 -0600, you wrote: >Guys: > >I just picked up a CDC 9720-500 Sabre 8" drive (SCSI version). >Anybody got docs for this thing? Especially the power hook >up, and dip switch settings. I have a non-functional SMD version with a fully functional power supply. I would be willing to sell or trade the chassis/power supply combo. Your drive would fit nicely in it, and the power unit is designed to run Sabre drives. Make me an offer (I do my darndest not to gouge). Are you looking for SMD versions? I may be able to latch onto a couple. >A scrap dealer near where I work just tossed three of these that >were SMD! Arrrrgh! I know. I watched a Kennedy 9400 tape drive go to an almost certain death at the scrapyard because I lack the channels to intercept it before it goes. At least I managed to save a TK70 and its controller. We all rescue what we can, Jeff, sometimes at considerable personal risk. I know it hurts, but there's just no way we'd ever be able to 'Save it All.' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From lfb107 at psu.edu Thu Feb 11 00:12:59 1999 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) Message-ID: <199902110606.BAA16166@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> At 06:46 AM 2/10/99 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >::I haven't seen the FAQ in ages but I think most DCR's actually shipped with >::16k of Video Ram, thus "cost reduced." The 64k units were called something >::else. My 128dCR has 16k. : ( > >Are you sure you have a DCR then? The shell should be metal. All the DCRs I've >seen have 64K. > >Also check your board. You should have the HMOS SID (CSG 8580), and the -03 >(I think) ROMs. Yup, case is metal and it even has stamped on the boards. Les From erd at infinet.com Thu Feb 11 01:08:45 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <02b801be5568$08bf7f40$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> from "Joseph S. Barrera III" at Feb 10, 99 06:41:30 pm Message-ID: <199902110708.CAA04910@user2.infinet.com> > > >With all due respect to your employer, Joe, I'm imagining being > >violently ill. > > So just exactly how much respect *is* "all due respect" in this case? :-) I learned as a boy that what usually follows "with all due respect" is the most disrespectful thing imaginable. ;-) -ethan From black at gco.apana.org.au Thu Feb 11 16:07:28 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Newly acquire stuff References: <36C1BBD1.D9064A40@rain.org> Message-ID: <36C3549F.25C65386@gco.apana.org.au> Marvin wrote: > Doug wrote: > > > OK, my turn to brag. Today was a good day. I got: > > a Commodore 128D > > a Heathkit 8088 trainer > > a few BYTE mags > > and ... an Olson! > > > > Not such a bad one for me either - a C64 (UK, looooow serial number), another 128D & a PET 2001 (version 2 roms, 8k (keyboard needs repair)). All these from the Resource Shop attached to the local garbage tip. Total price, $6 (australian). But I'm after more PETs (in Australia if anyone has 'em). I picked up a coupla books last week - Compute!s Programming the PET/CBM (1982) & Mcgraw-Hill PET/CBM Personal Computer Guide (1980). I'm happy :-) From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Feb 11 04:15:39 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > If there's a card there with some circuitry on it, then you have an > optional interface card fitted. I have very little data on that, alas. > But as you don't mention a second card, I'm going to assume you haven't > noticed the jumper card hidden inside the punch. Hmm, I was too lazy to take the base plate off (the punches already have a ton of stuff piled on top), but I was able to see the small cards with a flashlight. The one in the Facit looks like it has three socketed chips in it with several kludge wires. The one in the HP looks like it has a bunch of transistors on it, but no IC's. When I'm ready to test these pups out, I'll take a closer look at the boards. > OK, here's the pinout Thanks! Another pearl for future researchers to find in the archive. -- Doug From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Thu Feb 11 05:08:02 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <199902110321.AA23235@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902111108.WAA14113@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 10:21 PM 2/10/99 -0500, Allison J Parent wrote: >Not on a bet. VMS source would be HUGE, if it were a four disk set it >would have to be LS120 or ZIP disks to hold it. Likely same for NT. I haven't seen a V7.x VMS source kit, but the V6.1 kit that I have comes on 2 CDs which are pretty much full. Makes interesting reading on cold wintery nights... Interestingly the licence you sign before gaining access to the source CDs says something along the lines of "I promise never to sell/give/other these CDs away". Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From grant at anachronism.sol.co.uk Thu Feb 11 06:58:29 1999 From: grant at anachronism.sol.co.uk (Grant Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Sun Keyboards -> AT / PS2? Message-ID: <199902111255.MAA01036@gauss.maths.abdn.ac.uk> Any ideas where to find info on the data format? ---------- > From: Tony Duell > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Sun Keyboards -> AT / PS2? > Date: 10 February 1999 19:22 > > > > > Is it possible to connect a AT/PS2 keyboard to Sun3/80's? > > Two answers : > > 1) No, the data format/protocol is totally different > > 2) Yes, anything can be linked to anything. But it would take (at least) > a microcontroller to do it. > > Which applies depends on who you are :-) > > -tony > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 11 09:22:54 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990211092254.3a674060@intellistar.net> Ok so Sam will have to punch a few more holes. My Altair has the NorthStar controller. It's one card of TTL chips and uses a 5 1/4" drive. I'm fairly sure it uses 10 sector disks (same as the North Stars) but I don't it working yet so I'm not positive about the number of sectors. BTW I found a box of 10 sectored disks. Some of the are labeled "MASCOM". Does anybody know what MASCOM is? Joe At 09:18 PM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: >Not true! > >Altair Mini-Disk BASIC was distributed on 5 1/4" hard-sectored disks with 16 >sectors (not 10). The MITS controller consisted of two S-100 cards that was >mostly TTL (nothing fancy like a 1771). > >- Doug > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:22 PM >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> Subject: Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for >> >> >> >> < Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 >> sectors. I just >> > >> Apple or PCC/altair minifloppy? if yes then wrong. They >> were both soft >> sectored. It was the 8" altair disks that were hard sectored >> and it was 26 sectors if memory hasn't lost a bit. Somewhere in the >> junkbox is a Pertec minifloppy controller for s100 that how I know, >> it's 1771 based. >> >> >> 10 sector was most commonly Northstar* MDS. >> >> Allison >> > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 11 09:25:00 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: <02b801be5568$08bf7f40$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990211092500.097f7344@intellistar.net> At 06:41 PM 2/10/99 -0800, you wrote: >>With all due respect to your employer, Joe, I'm imagining being >>violently ill. > >So just exactly how much respect *is* "all due respect" in this case? :-) > >- Joe > > Knowing the people on this list I'd say not much! The other Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 11 09:26:46 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Filter time? Was: Re: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990210215743.00994cf0@206.231.8.2> References: <199902110223.SAA08793@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990211092646.097f6ec0@intellistar.net> At 10:01 PM 2/10/99 -0500, you wrote: >Upon the date 06:40 AM 2/11/99 +0000, MobileCostCutter@Hotmail.com said >something like: >>Hi, >> >>You have been referred to us as someone that would benefit from >>the following information. > -- snip rest of drivel -- > >Well, looks like some spammer has sold our address to those who distribute >email addresses to spammers. > >Is it now time to warm up the filter on the listserver which would allow >only list members to post here? Dammit! No, I'd say it's time for every member on this list to e-mail hotmail and raise hell. That's the only way you'll get rid of these SPAMMERS. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 11 09:31:57 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990210222505.664f890c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990211093157.097f8da4@intellistar.net> At 03:11 AM 2/11/99 +0000, you wrote: >> >> I don't have a manual but I think I *may* have an interface for it >> somewhere. I have a 9825 interface for some sort of paper tape device but >> I don't remember it having a DB-25 connector. > >The 9825 interface for the 4070 was the standard 16 bit interface module >with the right links on the connector board and the right cable. Exactly. It was an option on the regular GPIO interface. HP had lots of options for this interface so it could be used to connect different things. I have a list somewhere and it shows at least 15 different available options. The >4070 interface is similar to the centronics interface, BTW, but some >of the signals are inverted, etc. > >BTW, I have the operating/service manual for that interface module, and >it misses out details of how the cables are wired and what links are >fitted for the various devices. Does anyone have that information? No, I wish I did. I've been looking for them but haven't found it for any of the options yet. Joe > >-tony > > From arfonrg at texas.net Thu Feb 11 07:56:55 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990210133449.00c06e60@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> References: <3.0.3.32.19990210143325.009383b0@texas.net> <001101be53e3$dd47bba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> Sorry, I know this wasn't classic computer stuff but, I figured that you guys would know the answer. Let me push the question a bit more.... -How do they squeeze that much data down the line? Fiber-optics cabling only? Data multiplexing? -How do they discriminate the beginning of one packet from the end of another when running at such high speeds? >Arfon, this isn't "classic computer material." However, they work by being >very fast. There are several architectures that support multigigahertz >operation and by processing in parallel you get added avantages. Some of >the first Gbit routers had several processors one for each packet that came >in. I believe the Terabit routers are still doing this. > >--Chuck > >At 02:33 PM 2/10/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Can anyone tell me how they gigabit ethernet works? >> >>How can they get such high data transfer rate and how can the cards process >>the packets so fast??? > > > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Feb 11 08:03:22 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: eGroups / this list In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> Message-ID: <001201be55c7$493f7160$5bf438cb@a.davie> A while ago there was brief discussion of adding search and moderation capability to the list, and eGroups was mentioned. Somebody posted "don't use eGroups - it's terrible" or something to that effect. Well, as maintainer of a mailing list, about slide rules, I thought I'd give it a go, despite the warning. So I did. What can I say? It's great. A little blurb at the bottom of each posting (like a .sig), but other than that I have extensive moderation capability, membership listings, privacy for members emails, and a FULL SEARCH capability, statistics on visitors and more. I have not noticed any spam eventuating from my creating/joining this list. I'd heartily recommend egroups for this list. I think that this list so desperately needs a search capability on the archives. eGroups does this gratis. I'd really like to know WHY the other gent canned it so mercilessly as nothing but trouble. Best thing that I've used, as a list maintainer, since sliced bread. The sliderule list, btw, is [sliderule]. Visit http://www.egroups.com/list/sliderule to play around with the search stuff and/or join my list. Currently we're discussing a recent comic involving Bill Gates in bed with Ookie, his slide rule. No kidding. Oh, and slide rule lubrication. A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 11 08:21:15 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990211092254.3a674060@intellistar.net> Message-ID: > My Altair has the NorthStar controller. It's one card of TTL chips and > uses a 5 1/4" drive. I'm fairly sure it uses 10 sector disks (same as the > North Stars) but I don't it working yet so I'm not positive about the > number of sectors. It's likely the same as the controller was used in a lot of systems. It was the first disk upgrade to my altair prior to retiring it. Typically if the drive box was bought from NS* the box would be the same blue as altair. Allison From steverob at hotoffice.com Thu Feb 11 08:34:05 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Recent aquisitions Message-ID: <01BE55A1.AB2E81C0.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Friday, February 12, 1999 12:10 AM, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner [SMTP:spc@armigeron.com] wrote: > > This past weekend was the annual Miami Hamboree, a show for amatuer ham > radio enthusiasts, although they have equipment other than just radio stuff, > like computer stuff! > > There's two main rooms for mainstream companies and two other rooms with a > flea market feel, with long tables and good deals if you know how to haggle. > Sean, I also went to the Hamboree and was real impressed at how much electronic "stuff" was there. I didn't see too many interesting computer items but, I did come home with a real clean Kaypro II and a Compaq luggable. Including admission and lunch, I spent less than $40.00... Not a bad day. Steve Robertson - From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 11 08:43:23 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) In-Reply-To: <199902110606.BAA16166@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> from "Les Berry" at Feb 11, 99 01:12:59 am Message-ID: <199902111443.GAA08660@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/9932a7f8/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 11 09:52:19 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> References: <4.1.19990210133449.00c06e60@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <199902111453.PAA16361@horus.mch.sni.de> > Sorry, I know this wasn't classic computer stuff but, I figured that you > guys would know the answer. Try an OT header next time. > Let me push the question a bit more.... > -How do they squeeze that much data down the line? Fiber-optics cabling > only? Data multiplexing? What about trying to think ? How do they squeze some 160+ MBit, as needed for a simple TV chanel within a cable (~512x625x25x16) - and they put not only one one, but rather some dozends of _uncompressed_ chanels within one cable, one simple copper cable as installed in hundreds of million places and they do it since 40+ years .... much data come on - if you would ask for 1,000 GBit connections maybe :) > -How do they discriminate the beginning of one packet from the end of > another when running at such high speeds? How can they seperate even a single Byte from each other at the ridicoulous speed of 300 Bd - even more, how they seperate two bits ? C'me on - it's the same water than ever - and it boils still at the same pressure/temperature combination. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 11 09:57:43 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and KISS? In-Reply-To: <00256715.001F2D33.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <199902111458.PAA17390@horus.mch.sni.de> > >> 3. I've heard rumors that Cabaret Voltaire and KISS are going on tour > > KISS = the original HP10, yes? Can't think of any reason the take that > > machine anywere.... > Eh? Wasn't KISS a German home computer? Or am I quite round the twist? There have been at least two atempts to use this name. One small system (homecomputer) and one singleboarder. The first was jus to early (and to expensive), while the later one wasn't realy designed for a mass audience :) Also there is a OS called KISS. > ISTR it had a programming language based on Deutsch in much the same way as > BASIC is based on English? Sorry, I can't comment that, but there is a) a 8080 Basic variant that uses Deutsch, and b) at least two atempts of uC programming languages besed on German verbs (but they look more like COBOL :) > Anyone else hear of this machine? (I expect I'll now find that Hans has > one or something?) Nop, but I wish I had at least the singleboarder (althrough the HC might be historical more relevant, I just love the barebone systems). Servus Hans -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 11 09:17:02 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Filter time? Was: Re: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990211092646.097f6ec0@intellistar.net> References: <4.1.19990210215743.00994cf0@206.231.8.2> <199902110223.SAA08793@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990211071702.00937af0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 09:26 11-02-1999, you wrote: > No, I'd say it's time for every member on this list to e-mail hotmail and >raise hell. That's the only way you'll get rid of these SPAMMERS. I've already taken that a couple of steps further. A detailed probe of the headers revealed that the spam itself did not come from Hotmail, although the idiot was maintaining a drop-box there (probably nuked by now, thanks to my complaint). The spam itself originated from a London-based ISP. I've already mailed them full details and asked them to apply appropriate corrective measures. Do I get a brownie button after I get my 50th spammer kill? ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 11 10:25:53 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamfest References: <4.1.19990210133449.00c06e60@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <199902111453.PAA16361@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <36C30491.1C62929@rain.org> Just curious if anyone on the list will be going to the Dayton Hamvention in May? At this point, I plan on being there since some ARDF stuff is on the agenda, but it also would be a fun time to get together for anyone on the list who might be there. The URL is: http://www.erinet.com/hamvention/index.html I've never been there before, but I have heard a lot of good things about the flea market there! From arfonrg at texas.net Thu Feb 11 10:32:51 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:07 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <199902111453.PAA16361@horus.mch.sni.de> References: <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> <4.1.19990210133449.00c06e60@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990211103251.00930100@texas.net> >> Let me push the question a bit more.... >> -How do they squeeze that much data down the line? Fiber-optics cabling >> only? Data multiplexing? > >What about trying to think ? How do they squeze some 160+ MBit, as needed >for a simple TV chanel within a cable (~512x625x25x16) - and they put not >only one one, but rather some dozends of _uncompressed_ chanels within one >cable, one simple copper cable as installed in hundreds of million places >and they do it since 40+ years .... much data come on - if you would ask >for 1,000 GBit connections maybe :) Well, within a cable signal, it's analog (you can therefore relate that to a parallel digital signal), it's also multiplex using different frequencies... So, I assume that the answer is, gigabit ethernet uses some local oscillators and modulates a butt-ton of frequencies using many parallel bits. That would be the closest correlation to how cable TV works. >> -How do they discriminate the beginning of one packet from the end of >> another when running at such high speeds? Well, I was assuming that gigabit ethernet was a single serial connection and that the packet header detector has to operate at frequencies several multiples faster than the incomming data stream to detect new packets then send a complete packet to a processor for address resolution. But, I take it this is not the case. So, how do they do it? > >How can they seperate even a single Byte from each other at the ridicoulous >speed of 300 Bd - even more, how they seperate two bits ? > >C'me on - it's the same water than ever - and it boils still at the same >pressure/temperature combination. > >Gruss >H. > > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Feb 11 12:08:25 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Filter time? Was: Re: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990211071702.00937af0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990211092646.097f6ec0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902111709.SAA08815@horus.mch.sni.de> > > No, I'd say it's time for every member on this list to e-mail hotmail and > >raise hell. That's the only way you'll get rid of these SPAMMERS. > I've already taken that a couple of steps further. > A detailed probe of the headers revealed that the spam itself did not come > from Hotmail, although the idiot was maintaining a drop-box there (probably > nuked by now, thanks to my complaint). The spam itself originated from a > London-based ISP. I've already mailed them full details and asked them to > apply appropriate corrective measures. Thank you Bruce, > Do I get a brownie button after I get my 50th spammer kill? ;-) A Brownie Button ? Servus H. P.S.: What about a 7400 pirceing ? :))) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Thu Feb 11 11:12:51 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs Message-ID: <000301be55e1$c1417e50$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> This is going to seem like an odd request, but I am doing a presentation which will include some "bad apples". You know, the human kind. But, to add some humor, I would like to find a picture of some really trashed, or a pile of trashed, old Apple computers. I don't know where to find this, and you guys have always amazed me at what you were able to locate, so I am hopeful you can provide a link. Thanks! Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 11 11:53:47 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs In-Reply-To: <000301be55e1$c1417e50$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Todd Osborne wrote: > This is going to seem like an odd request, but I am doing a presentation > which will include some "bad apples". You know, the human kind. But, to add > some humor, I would like to find a picture of some really trashed, or a pile > of trashed, old Apple computers. I don't know where to find this, and you > guys have always amazed me at what you were able to locate, so I am hopeful > you can provide a link. Thanks! "Trashed" as in "sitting in a trashcan" or "trashed" as in "a pile of bleeding apple cases smashed to bits"? I can take a bunch of Apple ]['s, ///'s and Lisas, plus sundry peripherals, put them in a haphazardly laid pile, and then snap a few shots of it and send it to you (along with an invoice :) but I won't take a sledgehammer to them unless you pay me lots of money. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Feb 11 11:54:59 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: The 'WarGames' IMSAI hits eBay... Message-ID: (flames to /dev/null) Looks like one more piece of classic computer gear with a movie tie is bound for some closet somewhere... The IMSAI from the movie 'War Games' has gone up for bit on eBay... Item #65763027 Supposedly comes with authentication. Bidding is already past $800 (sigh) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Feb 11 11:56:32 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs In-Reply-To: <000301be55e1$c1417e50$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Todd Osborne wrote: > This is going to seem like an odd request, but I am doing a presentation > which will include some "bad apples". You know, the human kind. But, to add > some humor, I would like to find a picture of some really trashed, or a pile > of trashed, old Apple computers. I don't know where to find this, and you > guys have always amazed me at what you were able to locate, so I am hopeful > you can provide a link. Thanks! Anyone got the URL handy for the infamous "LISA Landfill" picture? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 11 11:56:53 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs Message-ID: <00cb01be55e7$e87153a0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> There used to be some great pictures of dead apples (the machine variety) at a place called "murphy's junkyard" or "Murhpy's surplus" on the web. Not sure of the exact name, but search on the web for murphy's junk or surplus and you'll find the site. Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Todd Osborne To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 11:53 AM Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs >This is going to seem like an odd request, but I am doing a presentation >which will include some "bad apples". You know, the human kind. But, to add >some humor, I would like to find a picture of some really trashed, or a pile >of trashed, old Apple computers. I don't know where to find this, and you >guys have always amazed me at what you were able to locate, so I am hopeful >you can provide a link. Thanks! > >Todd Osborne >Senior Software Engineer >FMStrategies, Inc. >http://www.fmstrategies.com/ >-------------------------------------------------------- >FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com >Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com >-------------------------------------------------------- >Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) >http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ >-------------------------------------------------------- >Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) >Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. >COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) >-------------------------------------------------------- >Quote: >"The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > > From erd at infinet.com Thu Feb 11 11:56:13 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamfest In-Reply-To: <36C30491.1C62929@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 11, 99 08:25:53 am Message-ID: <199902111756.MAA13729@user2.infinet.com> > > Just curious if anyone on the list will be going to the Dayton Hamvention in > May? I usually do, two years out of three since 1981. > I've never been there before, but I have heard a lot of good things about > the flea market there! It's *HUGE*, but there is a lot of crap. Over the years I have picked up an ASR-33, a couple of PDP-8/L's, a COSMAC VIP, some VIC-20's, Rainbows, an Informer SNA (3274/3270) dialup portable terminal and a few other assorted Classic goodies. Mostly now, I get discrete components for my bench and networking parts. Probably the strangest thing I ever bought there was a pair of aluminum eight-foot-tall Air Force surplus aircraft maintenance platforms. I use them as short scaffolding. Friday is good for selection, Sunday after 14:00 is good for bargains, especially if it's raining. Oh, yeah... parking sucks, too. -ethan From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 11 14:07:42 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Filter time? Was: Re: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990211071702.00937af0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990211092646.097f6ec0@intellistar.net> <4.1.19990210215743.00994cf0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990211140742.5f974388@intellistar.net> At 07:17 AM 2/11/99 -0800, you wrote: > > Do I get a brownie button after I get my 50th spammer kill? ;-) You betcha! Joe > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 11 12:18:04 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs In-Reply-To: <000301be55e1$c1417e50$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Todd Osborne wrote: > This is going to seem like an odd request, but I am doing a presentation > which will include some "bad apples". You know, the human kind. But, to add > some humor, I would like to find a picture of some really trashed, or a pile > of trashed, old Apple computers. I don't know where to find this, and you > guys have always amazed me at what you were able to locate, so I am hopeful > you can provide a link. Thanks! Well, I do recall an Apple advert in Byte back in the early '80s, featuring an Apple ][ that had been severely burned in a fire, yet was still working. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Thu Feb 11 12:13:36 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Picture of Old-Dead Macs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501be55ea$3e00ca60$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> I appreciate the offer, but I am looking to do this presentation tomorrow :) I will follow up on some of the other postings. Thanks guys. Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sam Ismail > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 12:54 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Picture of Old-Dead Macs > > > On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Todd Osborne wrote: > > > This is going to seem like an odd request, but I am doing a presentation > > which will include some "bad apples". You know, the human kind. > But, to add > > some humor, I would like to find a picture of some really > trashed, or a pile > > of trashed, old Apple computers. I don't know where to find > this, and you > > guys have always amazed me at what you were able to locate, so > I am hopeful > > you can provide a link. Thanks! > > "Trashed" as in "sitting in a trashcan" or "trashed" as in "a pile of > bleeding apple cases smashed to bits"? > > I can take a bunch of Apple ]['s, ///'s and Lisas, plus sundry > peripherals, put them in a haphazardly laid pile, and then snap a few > shots of it and send it to you (along with an invoice :) but I won't take > a sledgehammer to them unless you pay me lots of money. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 01/15/99] > > From wanderer at bos.nl Thu Feb 11 16:03:13 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: The 'WarGames' IMSAI hits eBay... References: Message-ID: <36C353A1.16BB@bos.nl> Just looked at eBay, it's hig bid now is $2001, and the reserve still hasn't been met... James Willing wrote: > > (flames to /dev/null) > > Looks like one more piece of classic computer gear with a movie tie is > bound for some closet somewhere... The IMSAI from the movie 'War Games' > has gone up for bit on eBay... Item #65763027 > > Supposedly comes with authentication. Bidding is already past $800 > (sigh) > > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From lfb107 at psu.edu Thu Feb 11 14:42:02 1999 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: C128 (was: some finds...) Message-ID: <199902112035.PAA70276@f04n01.cac.psu.edu> At 06:43 AM 2/11/99 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >::Yup, case is metal and it even has stamped on the boards. > >And the SID and ROMs? What kind of RAM chips are connected to the 8563? Can't comment on that. It's packed away tight somewhere. I do remember the "Canonical List of Commodore Machines" making a distinction with some DCR's. Les From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 11 12:48:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Nasty Hangnail; Cuban Cigarettes; Caberet Voltaire and In-Reply-To: <00256715.001F2D33.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at Feb 11, 99 05:42:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 370 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/752cbe97/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 11 12:59:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990211093157.097f8da4@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 11, 99 09:31:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 663 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/f3bfc2e9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 11 13:04:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Facit 4070 In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 11, 99 05:15:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 915 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990211/33edfdf9/attachment.ksh From manney at hmcltd.net Thu Feb 11 17:21:25 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: S/W available Message-ID: <199902112321.PAA14947@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Available is Lotus 1-2-3 V1.1 for UNIX (5 1/4" and 3 1/2" media) WordPerfect 5.1 for UNIX Make offer to manney@hmcltd.net From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 11 17:26:58 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> (message from Arfon Gryffydd on Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:56:55 -0600) References: <3.0.3.32.19990210143325.009383b0@texas.net> <001101be53e3$dd47bba0$0101a8c0@jay> <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> Message-ID: <19990211232658.24065.qmail@brouhaha.com> About gigabit ethernet: > Let me push the question a bit more.... > -How do they squeeze that much data down the line? Fiber-optics cabling > only? Data multiplexing? 1 Gbps on fiber isn't that much harder than OC12 (622 Mbps). Of course, it's easy for me to say that, but one of my friends who works for HP's optoelectronics division designing the laser diodes and transceiver modules might disagree. But from the point of view of a maker of NIC cards or hubs, the magic is all encapsulated in a nice little plastic package. For twisted pair, they use four pairs at 250 Mbps each, half duplex. For comparison, 100-base-TX uses a single CAT 5 pair at 100 Mbps for transmit, and a second pair for receive, so they can optionally support full duplex. And 100-base-T4 uses four CAT 3 pairs at 25 Mpbs, half duplex. > -How do they discriminate the beginning of one packet from the end of > another when running at such high speeds? Basically the same way they do it at lower speeds; by looking for coding violations. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 11 17:40:50 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990211103251.00930100@texas.net> (message from Arfon Gryffydd on Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:32:51 -0600) References: <3.0.3.32.19990211075655.0095a100@texas.net> <4.1.19990210133449.00c06e60@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <3.0.3.32.19990211103251.00930100@texas.net> Message-ID: <19990211234050.24137.qmail@brouhaha.com> Arfon Gryffydd wrote:n > Well, within a cable signal, it's analog (you can therefore relate that to > a parallel digital signal), it's also multiplex using different frequencies... > So, I assume that the answer is, gigabit ethernet uses some local > oscillators and modulates a butt-ton of frequencies using many parallel > bits. That would be the closest correlation to how cable TV works. No. What you describe is a broadband network. AFAIK, gigabit ethernet over copper still uses baseband techniques. However, it's not accurate to characterize the difference between baseband and broadband as digital vs. analog. A high-frequency signal on a cable is *always* an analog signal. Cables won't pass digital signals. If you put in a square wave at one end, you don't get a square wave at the other. For sufficiently low frequencies on suitably terminated cable, you may get a good enough approximation of a square wave. But this doesn't scale up to very high frequencies. So usually the waveform driven into the cable (and expected at the other end) is a carefully engineered analog signal. It is the job of the transceiver to generate that analog signal at the transmitting end, and recover the digital data at the receiving end. From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Thu Feb 11 17:46:09 1999 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Swap PDP-8/L for IBM 5100? Message-ID: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B02639356@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> I've got a PDP-8/L available for swap. I thought about putting it up on eBay with a $100k reserve but decided that would be overkill :-) Would anyone with an IBM 5100 (switch-selectable BASIC/APL variant) be interested in a swap? -- Tony Eros Computer History Association of Delaware From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 11 18:43:58 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for Message-ID: <199902120043.AA14644@world.std.com> I have a couple of old WD hard drives I'm trying to revitalize. They say they have no partitions, but when I try to lay in a partition, they say there's no room. Would a LLF take care of this (vide recent discussion)? Thanks manney From wpe101 at banet.net Thu Feb 11 20:01:58 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Unsolicited Advertising|Mobilecostcutter SPAM Message-ID: <36C38B96.5271B9A2@banet.net> To whom it may concern; Your advertising e-mail was sent to a listserver dedicated to a special interest group. These individuals subscribe to this listserver for information related to their hobby, not for unsolicited advertising. I would _strongly_ suggest that you review your e-mail advertising policies and methods. Personally, I will _NOT_ do business with firms that advertise in this manner, and _WILL_ urge my friends and associates to adopt a similar policy. Will From wpe101 at banet.net Thu Feb 11 20:06:47 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Filter time? Was: Re: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! References: <3.0.1.16.19990211092646.097f6ec0@intellistar.net> <4.1.19990210215743.00994cf0@206.231.8.2> <3.0.1.16.19990211140742.5f974388@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36C38CB7.C42200FF@banet.net> Well, I sent the original advertiser a reply expressing my displeasure.. Don't know if they will 1. get it, 2. read it.. 3. If it'll do any good.. I did a CC to the list.. Will Joe wrote: > > At 07:17 AM 2/11/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > Do I get a brownie button after I get my 50th spammer kill? ;-) > > You betcha! > > Joe > > > > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > >http://www.bluefeathertech.com > >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) > >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 11 20:39:22 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Unsolicited Advertising|Mobilecostcutter SPAM In-Reply-To: <36C38B96.5271B9A2@banet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990211183922.00930900@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 21:01 11-02-1999 -0500, you wrote: >To whom it may concern; > Your advertising e-mail was sent to a listserver dedicated to a Rule #1 of spamfighting: NEVER reply to a spammer in ANY form. All it does is confirm that they hit a live address. I will not be surprised if your E-mail to them bounces in any case. I got a note back from Hotmail this evening, in response to a complaint I filed earlier, that the box had been nuked. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Feb 11 20:51:47 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Unsolicited Advertising|Mobilecostcutter SPAM In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990211183922.00930900@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 21:01 11-02-1999 -0500, you wrote: > Rule #1 of spamfighting: NEVER reply to a spammer in ANY form. > All it does is confirm that they hit a live address. 2) Assume the return address is bogus, and examine the full headers. 3) Find the last "recieved from" line in the headers. This will tell you the originating host. 4) Use whois to find the technical contact for the originating host. 5) Send a copy of the spam, with full headers, to the technical contact and/or postmaster and/or abuse, and request that the user's account be shutdown. They can determine the account from their logs even if it's not in the headers. 6) If the originating host belongs to a spammer, ask their upstream ISP to shut off their connection. (This is the last "received by" host.) 7) Don't send a message to this list about the spam. These messages generate 10x the noise the spammer generated. -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 11 23:48:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Intel in hot water again, interesting reading! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990211234847.50977330@intellistar.net> FYI > > The Scoop > http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > >By Fred Langa >By Fred Langa > >InformationWeek > >You probably saw the original coverage of Intel's announcement that it would >embed an individual serial number in each Pentium III and Celeron chip. The >96-bit ID can identify the user's PC to any software that knows how to ask. > >Immediately after the announcement, various consumer watchdog groups went >ballistic. Epic, the Electronic Privacy Information Center, launched a >boycott of Intel, calling it the "Big Brother Inside" campaign. Epic says >the processor serial number, "would likely be collected by many sites, >indexed and accumulated in databases...The records of many different >companies could be joined without the user's knowledge or consent to provide >an intrusive profile of activity on the computer." > >Intel immediately backed off a bit by announcing that although the serial >number would ship enabled on every chip, Intel would provide equipment >manufacturers with a small software applet that could be used to prevent >access to the number. However, the software must work (it hasn't been tested >yet); it must be properly installed on each PC; and it must be run after >every reboot. > >Epic says that because this approach "relies on a software patch that must >run each and every time that a user turns on the computer, it is susceptible >to tampering by other software programs." So, Epic's boycott is still in >place: The group insists that Intel should disable the processor serial >number at the hardware level, where it will stay disabled until the PC owner >turns it on. > >To further muddy the waters, the processor serial number may not be very >secure. CMP Media's Electronic Engineering Times quoted cryptography expert >Bruce Schneier, who talked about the prospect that the serial numbers can be >forged or stolen: "A system is only as secure as the smartest hacker," he >said. "All it takes is for one person to defeat the tamper resistance. >There's always someone who manages to unravel the protection. There isn't a >copy-protected piece of software that hasn't been stripped of its >protections and posted to hacker bulletin boards. This won't be any >different." (For the full story, go to "Intel ID Protection Scheme Called >Insufficient.") > >Of course, there are legitimate and useful purposes for this kind of ID, >especially for resource-tracking within an enterprise. Indeed, some >workstation manufacturers already include similar functions on their >enterprise-ready boxes, and some enterprise software products use these >serial numbers for licensing. But Intel is attempting to broaden this >practice to an unprecedented degree by putting the ID number on every chip >and enabling it by default. Toss in only weak assurances of the serial >number's security and only a weak turn-off option, and you're got a >firestorm of protests. > >Last week, I conducted an informal online poll among the readers of Windows >Magazine. The reaction was eye-opening: Out of hundreds of posts, virtually >all were vehemently anti-Intel. And in that huge majority, most people swore >their next PC purchase would be AMD-based, until and unless Intel either >removes the processor serial number or allows it to be disabled in hardware. >One reader suggested the clever idea of resurrecting the old "turbo" switch >approach and placing a simple serial number enable/disable button on the >front of every PC. (You can read more on the controversy and see reader >reaction at Windows Magazine: Big Brother Inside?.) > >I was amazed at the absolute intensity of the reader posts. It's as though >the processor serial number was the last straw for many people: Intel's >history of high prices and other public relations fumbles (like the >floating-point math bug) seem to have built up a huge reservoir of >resentment that's now spilling over. I think we're seeing the start of a >strong anti-Intel backlash, analogous to the anti-Microsoft fervor that's >changing the operating system landscape. > >Fred Langa is a senior consulting editor and columnist for Windows Magazine. >Fred's free weekly newsletter is available via subscribe@langa.com > . You can contact him at fred@langa.com > or via his website at http://www.langa.com > . http://www.techweb.com/ > From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Thu Feb 11 22:07:21 1999 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for Message-ID: True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy controller that was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer interface) was the same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC values), the second board was completely different. I have the MITS docs for the "mini"-floppy system and it is documented as a hard sectored using 16 sectors per track. I also have an Altair Mini-Floppy BASIC disk and it is also hard sectored with 16 sector holes. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > No. The original disk for the altair before they became > Pertec Computers > was an 8" system using two boards of TTL. I know I built > three of them in > that era and debugged a few more. All if the later Pertec > machines with > minifloppies had a board that used a 1771 plus a raft of ttl. > > I might add the Pertec controller was sold before the Pertec > aquired MITS. > > > Allison > From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Feb 11 22:29:46 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Doug Duchene wrote: > True enough I'm sure. MITS also produced a "mini"-floppy controller that > was also a two board TTL set. The first board (computer interface) was the > same board as in the 8" set (except for different RC values), the second > board was completely different. I have the MITS docs for the "mini"-floppy > system and it is documented as a hard sectored using 16 sectors per track. > I also have an Altair Mini-Floppy BASIC disk and it is also hard sectored > with 16 sector holes. But wasn't the mini-floppy actually produced by iCom, and then labeled as a MITS product after Pertec acquired both MITS and iCom? What's the copyright date on your docs? Do these people buying Altair stuff on ebay for big bucks really think that the Pertec-era stuff is interesting? -- Doug From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 11 23:05:43 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Partitions References: <199902120105.RAA30897@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36C3B6A7.9FC5BB39@cnct.com> PG Manney wrote: > > I have a couple of old WD hard drives I'm trying to revitalize. They say > they have no partitions, but when I try to lay in a partition, they say > there's no room. > > Would a LLF take care of this (vide recent discussion)? What model drives? What model controller(s)? "Old" is a flexible term with computers, and WD has been around through a lot of the evolution of hard disk technology. Some combos don't work at all, attaching a WD1003 controller to a Caviar of any size doesn't work, for example -- Ward Griffiths WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 11 23:41:13 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Partitions References: <199902120105.RAA30897@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36C3BEF9.18EE1915@rain.org> PG Manney wrote: > > I have a couple of old WD hard drives I'm trying to revitalize. They say > they have no partitions, but when I try to lay in a partition, they say > there's no room. > > Would a LLF take care of this (vide recent discussion)? Old could mean a lot of things; are you talking MFM, IDE, or what? In my experience, the message you are getting indicates some type of problem with the system tracks. A couple of possibilities include having the wrong parameters for an IDE drive, and bad tracks on MFM (RLL, ESDI, SCSI) type drives. As I think about it, I would first check to make sure you have the proper disk parameters in CMOS for the drive you are using. From pechter at pechter.nws.net Fri Feb 12 07:15:52 1999 From: pechter at pechter.nws.net (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for In-Reply-To: <199902120043.AA14644@world.std.com> from Allison J Parent at "Feb 11, 1999 7:43:58 pm" Message-ID: <199902121315.IAA01578@pechter.nws.net> > I doubt anyone would give them away as the license to see whats on them was > at last call well over $3000(US)! The distribution kit fits easily on one > CD though. > > Allison Don't kid your self... when some sites dump their last VMS box it all hits the trash. Bill (who wishes the trash came this way more often) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 12 12:13:47 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for $102.50! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990210140745.45b7ef74@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902121714.SAA24162@horus.mch.sni.de> > > No, don't say excellant condition, just say unknown condition. That way > > no one can say that you ripped them off. > > Just remember that they're hard sectored disks with 10 sectors. I just > > found a box of them in a surplus store a couple of days ago. > Yeah, but will anyone really notice? Ok, I'll punch a few extra holes > here and there. Tryin' to fake twigy disks ? H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 12 12:39:59 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: References: <001801be545a$0bf70340$472a0518@cx183395-a.msnv1.occa.home.com> Message-ID: <199902121740.SAA26507@horus.mch.sni.de> > > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. Why do I have a strong negative feeling against you at some moments ? H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 12 12:43:12 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: UZI Message-ID: <199902121843.KAA09428@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 509 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990212/1cfe0993/attachment.ksh From hansp at digiweb.com Fri Feb 12 12:44:39 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 References: <001801be545a$0bf70340$472a0518@cx183395-a.msnv1.occa.home.com> <199902121740.SAA26507@horus.mch.sni.de> Message-ID: <36C47697.995D685E@digiweb.com> Hans Franke wrote: > > > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > > Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > > Why do I have a strong negative feeling against you at some moments ? Speaking of 4004, does anyone in Europe have a 4004 system board that they would be willing to lend to a Grenoble, France museum for a computer history exhibition? Regards, _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Fri Feb 12 13:45:07 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Great uP page Message-ID: Here's a semi-interesting page of quasi-historical importance about uP's of the past. It probably doesn't jive with the classiccmp list view of reality, but discusses 40xx's, and {non-authoritatively} answers one members question about the uP in the Voyager probe: "Apart from the COSMAC microcomputer kit, the 1802 saw action in some video games from RCA and Radio Shack, and the chip is the heart of the Voyager, Viking and Galileo " http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~bayko/cpu.html We especially like the 2nd IEEE Computer article in Apendix E. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 12 14:43:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Intel in hot water again, interesting reading! Message-ID: <19990212204041637.AAA137@fuj03> The solution's simple . . . don't use an intel processor. Goodness knows they're overpriced! Has AMD started doing this? Dick ---------- > From: Joe > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: OT: Intel in hot water again, interesting reading! > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:48 PM > > FYI > > > > > The Scoop > > http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > > > >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > > > >http://img.cmpnet.com/tw/newsletters/blank.gif > > > >By Fred Langa > >By Fred Langa > > > >InformationWeek > > > >You probably saw the original coverage of Intel's announcement that it would > >embed an individual serial number in each Pentium III and Celeron chip. The > >96-bit ID can identify the user's PC to any software that knows how to ask. > > > >Immediately after the announcement, various consumer watchdog groups went > >ballistic. Epic, the Electronic Privacy Information Center, launched a > >boycott of Intel, calling it the "Big Brother Inside" campaign. Epic says > >the processor serial number, "would likely be collected by many sites, > >indexed and accumulated in databases...The records of many different > >companies could be joined without the user's knowledge or consent to provide > >an intrusive profile of activity on the computer." > > > >Intel immediately backed off a bit by announcing that although the serial > >number would ship enabled on every chip, Intel would provide equipment > >manufacturers with a small software applet that could be used to prevent > >access to the number. However, the software must work (it hasn't been tested > >yet); it must be properly installed on each PC; and it must be run after > >every reboot. > > > >Epic says that because this approach "relies on a software patch that must > >run each and every time that a user turns on the computer, it is susceptible > >to tampering by other software programs." So, Epic's boycott is still in > >place: The group insists that Intel should disable the processor serial > >number at the hardware level, where it will stay disabled until the PC owner > >turns it on. > > > >To further muddy the waters, the processor serial number may not be very > >secure. CMP Media's Electronic Engineering Times quoted cryptography expert > >Bruce Schneier, who talked about the prospect that the serial numbers can be > >forged or stolen: "A system is only as secure as the smartest hacker," he > >said. "All it takes is for one person to defeat the tamper resistance. > >There's always someone who manages to unravel the protection. There isn't a > >copy-protected piece of software that hasn't been stripped of its > >protections and posted to hacker bulletin boards. This won't be any > >different." (For the full story, go to "Intel ID Protection Scheme Called > >Insufficient.") > > > >Of course, there are legitimate and useful purposes for this kind of ID, > >especially for resource-tracking within an enterprise. Indeed, some > >workstation manufacturers already include similar functions on their > >enterprise-ready boxes, and some enterprise software products use these > >serial numbers for licensing. But Intel is attempting to broaden this > >practice to an unprecedented degree by putting the ID number on every chip > >and enabling it by default. Toss in only weak assurances of the serial > >number's security and only a weak turn-off option, and you're got a > >firestorm of protests. > > > >Last week, I conducted an informal online poll among the readers of Windows > >Magazine. The reaction was eye-opening: Out of hundreds of posts, virtually > >all were vehemently anti-Intel. And in that huge majority, most people swore > >their next PC purchase would be AMD-based, until and unless Intel either > >removes the processor serial number or allows it to be disabled in hardware. > >One reader suggested the clever idea of resurrecting the old "turbo" switch > >approach and placing a simple serial number enable/disable button on the > >front of every PC. (You can read more on the controversy and see reader > >reaction at Windows Magazine: Big Brother Inside?.) > > > >I was amazed at the absolute intensity of the reader posts. It's as though > >the processor serial number was the last straw for many people: Intel's > >history of high prices and other public relations fumbles (like the > >floating-point math bug) seem to have built up a huge reservoir of > >resentment that's now spilling over. I think we're seeing the start of a > >strong anti-Intel backlash, analogous to the anti-Microsoft fervor that's > >changing the operating system landscape. > > > >Fred Langa is a senior consulting editor and columnist for Windows Magazine. > >Fred's free weekly newsletter is available via subscribe@langa.com > > . You can contact him at fred@langa.com > > or via his website at http://www.langa.com > > . http://www.techweb.com/ > > From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Fri Feb 12 14:59:40 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Poly 88 Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8F424DC@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> I have a Polymorphic CPU/8 board and a Video Terminal Interface, both looking a little beat up and, of course, without any documentation :-( I'd really appreciate copies of manuals so I could get them going again. The Tiny Basic sounds great too and I'd love to have the files to try to burn some eproms. Arlen Michaels ----------------- On Tue, 09 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > > Hi All > > I have an old Poly 88 ( the first single button frontpanel S-100 ). > > It has Tiny Basic in PROMs. If any out there would like to > > fill the two empty sockets on their CPU board, let me know and > > I'll have the parts read out. > > If you need docs on the Poly 88, let me know as I have the masters for > quite > a few of the Polymorphic board manuals. I don't think I have Tiny Basic in > Prom, and I would love to get a copy of the binary file! Also, I have > quite > a few of the CPU, Video, and Disk controller boards, although most seem to > be missing a few parts (they look like production boards that didn't quite > get built up all the way.) > > Marvin > > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com > > > From max82 at surfree.com Fri Feb 12 15:03:20 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: S/W available In-Reply-To: <199902112321.PAA14947@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, PG Manney wrote: >Available is Lotus 1-2-3 V1.1 for UNIX (5 1/4" and 3 1/2" media) >WordPerfect 5.1 for UNIX What UNIX version would that run on, and for what processor? Would I be able to run it on Linux? >Make offer to manney@hmcltd.net > > > > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From max82 at surfree.com Fri Feb 12 15:05:32 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <19990211234050.24137.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 11 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: >*always* an analog signal. Cables won't pass digital signals. If you put in But the pind of a microchip are also cables, of sorts. What's the difference? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Feb 12 16:12:16 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: References: <19990211234050.24137.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199902122113.WAA09261@horus.mch.sni.de> > >*always* an analog signal. Cables won't pass digital signals. If you put in > But the pind of a microchip are also cables, of sorts. What's the > difference? Simple answer: There is no digital signal at all - nowhere - all analogoue. (Please don't invite von Klitzing :) Gruss H. -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 12 15:29:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 12, 99 04:05:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990212/2852730c/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 12 18:18:59 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: (message from Max Eskin on Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:05:32 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990213001859.31162.qmail@brouhaha.com> On 11 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: >*always* an analog signal. Cables won't pass digital signals. If you put in Max writes: > But the pind of a microchip are also cables, of sorts. What's the > difference? 1. They aren't multiple meters long. 2. They actually do have transmission line effects. If you're not careful, there can be enough ringing on the signals (due to lack of proper termination) to cause undesired behavior. If you look at bus signals on a 33 MHz bus with a 100 MHz scope, they look fairly square (unless things are badly designed and/or broken). Now look at those same signals with a 1 GHz scope. The difference is *amazing*. At best, all you can do with high speed stuff is get a good enough *approximation* of the desired digital signal. And the higher the speed the harder it is to make that approximation good enough. When you're talking about "digital" signals above 500 MHz (as would be found on gigabit ethernet twisted pairs), it is very hard to convincingly describe them as digital. Sure, they are enocded from digital bits, and the are decoded back into digital bits at the other end, but what happens inbetween is analog (and basically black magic at that). Eric From joe at barrera.org Fri Feb 12 18:37:45 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? Message-ID: <009301be56e9$13d88c00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> >When you're talking about "digital" signals above 500 MHz (as would be >found on gigabit ethernet twisted pairs), it is very hard to convincingly >describe them as digital. Sure, they are enocded from digital bits, and >the are decoded back into digital bits at the other end, but what happens >inbetween is analog (and basically black magic at that). While we're not on the topic, please tell me... is light "really" a particle, or "really" a wave? How about electrons? - Joe P.S. No, I am *NOT* serious, I do *NOT* want to read such a discussion. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 12 18:59:45 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: wanted: 1/2" magtape cleaner Message-ID: <19990213005945.31357.qmail@brouhaha.com> I have some old 9-track tapes that are too grubby to read; they actually get stuck in the drive and have to be manually rewound. Does anyone have an extra magtape cleaner? From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 12 22:29:49 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: Graphics board APOLLO 400 Two subjects,one message Message-ID: <36C4FFBB.FB2180A5@epix.net> HI All, I need some help please. I have an ATI small wonder graphics solution Ver. 2 P/N 18703 Rev.0 copyright 1988. I also have a DTK model PIP-151 W/8088 CPU in it and 640kb RAM. My question on these two items is> Are they compatable? If the answer to that question is yes, can, and will, someone give me the jumper settings for jumpers 1,2,3 ? If no, then what kind of adapter card do I need to hook up an IBM model 5153 monitor? I have several old moniter adapter cards. Can I increase the RAM in the DTK PIP-151 past 640kb? If yes, how? If no, thanks. On another subject I took the APOLLO 400 apart and have some numbers to ask about later, after I get to my other house, the one with the classic computers in it. John Amirault From Xerox860 at aol.com Fri Feb 12 19:19:00 1999 From: Xerox860 at aol.com (Xerox860@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: 860 Message-ID: Dear Charles, I saw your ad on line. We have 7 or 8 860s, with spare parts for all. There were 2 versions, one with a Pl printer where the orange print button was pushed downwardly, to operate the printer; and 2) a HY-TYPE II printer, where the orange printer button was pushed from front to back to start the printer. If you have this latter version, with the very thick cable from the controller to the printer, then the printer is a HY TYPE II, a rock solid machine, like a battleship. These have a few quirks. Sometimes, the pwr. sup. burps, and you lose the boot-up. I was unable to fix this. However, if you disconnect the printer when you do your composing, backing-up, and so forth, the decreased load (printer not drawing current) will not cause this burp to occur. At least that is what we found. Hope you can get yours working. Let me know how you are doing. Thanks. Ken Lehmann, Fairfield, CT From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Feb 12 19:34:25 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:08 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for Message-ID: <199902130134.AA26498@world.std.com> from "John Amirault" at Feb 12, 99 08:29:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 759 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990213/e9baf49f/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Fri Feb 12 20:09:15 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: OT: Re: How does gigabit ethernet work? In-Reply-To: <009301be56e9$13d88c00$11d53d9d@JOEBAR> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > While we're not on the topic, please tell me... is light "really" a > particle, or "really" a wave? How about electrons? Yes. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 12 21:39:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 and 4907 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990212213952.504722c8@intellistar.net> Paxton, I've heard you're having amother big sale this month. what ar eyou selling this time around? I'm still interested in the HP 9805, 9810, etc. Have you found any more HP or Tektronix stuff? Joe From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 12 21:47:04 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: front panels (again) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can you guys help me build a definitve list of microcomputers that had minicomputer-like front panels with toggles and blinkenlights? Here's the list I've got so far: Intel Intellec-4 Intel Intellec-8 Scelbi 8H Mark-8 Datanumerics DL8A Altair 8800 BYTE, Inc. BYT-8 (and Olson 8080) IMSAI 8080 (and OEM versions) Altair 680 Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 I'm sure there were more (seven-segment LEDs don't count). I'm only looking for micros right now, but I'd also be interested in a list of mini's, and I'd especially like to know which computer first used this human interface. Thanks, Doug From msg at computerpro.com Fri Feb 12 21:49:07 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Panasonic Hand Help Computer References: <01be5152$d8557580$e3c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <36C4F633.5B677CB2@computerpro.com> Thanks much for your reply! Mike wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Grigoni > >Does anyone have any documentation... > > I may have some stuff your looking for. I have a HHC that was sold as a > package by Kentucky Central Life Insurance ( bill of sale says for $650.) > > I have the: > > HHC, printer, touristor luggage ;) And... > > Manual: Model: RL-H1000/RL-H1400 Instructions for use > Manual: User Manual, romPower by Pictorial, Universal Life Plus, > Commonwealth Insurance > Manual: Handheld Computer Instructions, Kentucky Central Life Insurance > > And several eproms > > RomPower Capital Holding Master A > RomPower Capital Holding Master B > RomPower Capital Holding, Classic +, Indiv. Tables > KCL VIP > KCLVIP Util > KCL VIP Tables > > If you need anything... > - Mike: dogas@leading.net All my ROMS are for Internation Order of Foresters by the way... Do any of the above manuals describe programming the HHC in the 'SNAP' language or reference a BASIC language ROM? Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 12 22:16:54 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: front panels (again) References: Message-ID: <36C4FCB6.C13FF2C7@rain.org> I'll need to double check the name, but the Mac-8 Emac computer (Japanese) has a full front panel (8080 or Z80 CPU, can't recall.) Doug wrote: > > Can you guys help me build a definitve list of microcomputers that had > minicomputer-like front panels with toggles and blinkenlights? > > Here's the list I've got so far: > > Intel Intellec-4 > Intel Intellec-8 > Scelbi 8H > Mark-8 > Datanumerics DL8A > Altair 8800 > BYTE, Inc. BYT-8 (and Olson 8080) > IMSAI 8080 (and OEM versions) > Altair 680 > Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 > > I'm sure there were more (seven-segment LEDs don't count). I'm only > looking for micros right now, but I'd also be interested in a list of > mini's, and I'd especially like to know which computer first used this > human interface. > > Thanks, > Doug From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 12 22:27:51 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Yahoo: IBM 26 Card Punch References: <3.0.1.16.19990212213952.504722c8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36C4FF47.26FE1EF4@rain.org> Those of you looking for a real IBM Card punch need look no further than: http://auctions.yahoo.com/auction/2762650. This item is located in Maine. FWIW, there is some really good stuff being mentioned over on the ccauction list, and this is just a note taking a bit of pity on those of you who don't subscribe :). Thanks to Stan for finding it! From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 12 22:31:04 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: front panels (again) In-Reply-To: <36C4FCB6.C13FF2C7@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > I'll need to double check the name, but the Mac-8 Emac computer (Japanese) > has a full front panel (8080 or Z80 CPU, can't recall.) Was that based on the Bell Labs (?) MAC-8 CPU that was mentioned here recently? I'd like to see that one if you've got a pic. I just remembered that Scelbi made an 8B after the 8H, but I don't remember if it had a front panel (I suspect it did). -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Feb 12 22:32:57 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Yahoo: IBM 26 Card Punch In-Reply-To: <36C4FF47.26FE1EF4@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > Those of you looking for a real IBM Card punch need look no further than: > http://auctions.yahoo.com/auction/2762650. This item is located in Maine. > > FWIW, there is some really good stuff being mentioned over on the ccauction > list, and this is just a note taking a bit of pity on those of you who don't > subscribe :). Thanks to Stan for finding it! I had talked to the owner, and I was going to mention it *after* the auction was over so as not to spoil it for any bidders. Some good it did those poor bidders to give you your own list :-( -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 13 00:40:20 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: hamfest and HP cables Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990213004020.2507fda6@intellistar.net> I just got back from the opening day of the Orlando hamfest. So far I picked up an Apple IIc plus, three more Compaq Portables IIIs, three HP 97s, a HP 92, two old HP catalogs and two old Tektronix catalog and this is only this first day! I also found some HP cables. They have a DB-25 female connector and a 36 pin Aphenol connector on the other. They have part number 13242D on them. Anyone know what they're for? Joe From amirault at epix.net Fri Feb 12 22:50:00 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: APOLLO 400 Message-ID: <36C50477.5BA08151@epix.net> Hi Everyone, I got home a little while ago and have been attempting to get my 486 working with two modems. I just remembered that I wanted to get online and chat about the APOLLO. 1. The first card is a national instruments corps. assy. 180100-02 REV. J GPIB-PCII copyright 1989 2.the display board is a madel 56-3118 A-3011-56 3. Two SIMMs made in Puertico Rico 56-3118 N10106 SIX empty SIMM slots 4.Motherboard A-3050-09 3115-1152 Made in USA 5.Does anyone have a MONITOR for this or can you TELL me what type of monitor to get. 6.Can I put the harddrive in a PC W/SCSI adapter card and use it as is without reformating? 7.Compared to a PC how fast is this?(i.e> is it a 486, a P-80, P-300, 8088) Thanks for listening to me, John Amirault From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 12 23:20:27 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Sun 1/100U Message-ID: <199902130520.XAA20896@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Well, I'm taking a few polaroid's of a Sun 1/100U, and noticed a few strange things. First, Sun liked to place round colored stickers on the boards, and they placed the date and a persons initials on the sticker. The strange thing is, on the cpu board, the sticker is dated 3-22-81, which is 2 years before this board was created! Sun 'upgraded' these units to use sun 2 cpu's, and the company only started shipping the first Sun 1 units in May of 82, and the 3Com board has a date of 9-21-83 which makes more reasonable sense to me (I had heard that we purchased the last of the Sun 1 units and a bunch of sun 2's, as part of a package discount deal). Anyways, it seems strange. Another strange thing about that cpu card, is that sun apparently didnt have any 24 pin DIP sockets, because they placed 16 and 8 pin DIP sockets next to each other on two occasions to form a larger socket! Oh, and I've always wondered about the 3 MBIT connector on the back of the unit, which is in addition to the 10 MBIT connector. -Lawrence LeMay From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 13 00:20:53 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Great uP page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, cswiger wrote: > Here's a semi-interesting page of quasi-historical importance > about uP's of the past. It probably doesn't jive with the > classiccmp list view of reality, but discusses 40xx's, > and {non-authoritatively} answers one members question > about the uP in the Voyager probe: > > http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~bayko/cpu.html This web site along with many, many others are indexed on the VCF Links page. I invite you to visit the links page and start exploring. There are a shitload of them and will keep you busy all night (all weekend for that matter). http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vcflinks.htm Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 13 00:51:38 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: hamfest and HP cables In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:40:20 References: <3.0.1.16.19990213004020.2507fda6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902130651.WAA19831@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > I also found some HP cables. They have a DB-25 female connector and a 36 > pin Aphenol connector on the other. They have part number 13242D on them. > Anyone know what they're for? "Aphenol" connector? Does this look like it wants to fit over a card edge, or like it wants to fit a connector with ears e.g. "Centronics" printer connector? If it's for a card edge (which I think it is -- I think 13242 is the part number for this), it's the cable that goes between a 264X terminal's datacomm card and...hmm, female connector, 13242D, I'm going to guess it's to connect up to some sort of DTE-type device but I'm not sure which. -Frank McConnell From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 12 21:01:02 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Great uP page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199902130801.DAA14822@smtp.interlog.com> On 12 Feb 99 at 22:20, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, cswiger wrote: > > > Here's a semi-interesting page of quasi-historical importance > > about uP's of the past. It probably doesn't jive with the > > classiccmp list view of reality, but discusses 40xx's, > > and {non-authoritatively} answers one members question > > about the uP in the Voyager probe: > > > > http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~bayko/cpu.html > > This web site along with many, many others are indexed on the VCF Links > page. I invite you to visit the links page and start exploring. There > are a shitload of them and will keep you busy all night (all weekend for > that matter). > > http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vcflinks.htm > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com Sam, you are always such an understating kind of guy ! ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 12 21:01:01 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: M SoKit 68 Message-ID: <199902130801.DAA14887@smtp.interlog.com> In 1983 at the end of taking a digital tech course at a community college here in Toronto at George Brown CC, I spent about a month assembling and debugging a trainer kit that my prof was marketing, similar but more sophisticated than the Heathkit ET34400. It was called a M(icro)SOKit 68. It was based , of course, like the ET3400 on the M6800 CPU. Does anyone have one of these out there ? It was geared to teach students about micros by building their own micro. I know he sold a number of them, but don't know how many. I have the manual, parts #s, etc. if anyone is interested. Included in the manual is a couple of pages of layouts obviously meant to be photocopied and etched. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 12 21:01:04 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <199902121740.SAA26507@horus.mch.sni.de> References: Message-ID: <199902130801.DAA14872@smtp.interlog.com> On 12 Feb 99 at 18:40, Hans Franke wrote: > > > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > > > Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > > Why do I have a strong negative feeling against you at some moments ? > > H. > It's normal. Everyone feels resentment against Californians from time to time. Mind you, when you consider that mudslides, Santa Ana induced firestorms, earthquakes, and the inevitable slide into the Pacific make things a little less desirable, even with the presence of "California Girls", you CAN feel fortunate at not being there. ciao larry Wasn't it the "Chink" in "Even Cowgirls Get The Blues" that described the indians amazeness at the crazy whitemen who sit there waiting for it to happen? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 13 02:22:32 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: <199902130801.DAA14872@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > It's normal. Everyone feels resentment against Californians from time > to time. Mind you, when you consider that mudslides, Santa Ana induced > firestorms, earthquakes, and the inevitable slide into the Pacific make > things a little less desirable, even with the presence of "California > Girls", you CAN feel fortunate at not being there. Exactly! California is a *very* dangerous place to be. Stay home! In truth, there are a few more computers here than the national average, but the number of geeks here who want those computers is *much* higher than the national average. When Xerox gave a demo of the old Star 8010 last year, several hundred people showed up. Their two overflow rooms overflowed and they had to turn people away. Where else could this happen? As far as I know, the only publicity for the event was word of mouth. All of the "spots" here are completely picked-over. That's why 3 out 4 old computer bidders at ebay are Silicon Valley locals. -- Doug From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Feb 13 03:14:37 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: PCJr Color Diplay for adoption Message-ID: <36C5427B.70AF1D93@bigfoot.com> I have a PCJr Color Display monitor, complete with the authentic block type connector that APPEARS to be in working condition that I really need to find a good home for. Not free, but cheap enough - $10 plus the applicable USPS shipping (insurance at your request) My guess is the weight is around 26 lbs. The monitor is in great phyical shape but has NOT been tested on a Jr for picture. It does power and does give raster on the screen so I can say that it is apparently in working condition. The $10 I want for it basically covers what I have in it besides the time in locating a shipping carton and hauling it to the post office, along with the minor differences (if any) in calculated postage. This is for USA addresses only. I know people ship things outside the US all the time, but I don't have the time or the patience for the added paperwork and other thing involved in out of US shipments. Contact me by direct message please, not by replying to the list. The monitor would come from zip 40144 in cae anyone needs to sneak a look at approximate postage themselves. I hate to see a possible addtion to a Jr collection go to the dumpster because someone was too cheap to spend a few bucks on it. From pechter at pechter.nws.net Sat Feb 13 04:54:09 1999 From: pechter at pechter.nws.net (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Sun 1/100U In-Reply-To: <199902130520.XAA20896@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "Feb 12, 1999 11:20:27 pm" Message-ID: <199902131054.FAA31563@pechter.nws.net> > Well, I'm taking a few polaroid's of a Sun 1/100U, and noticed a few strange > things. First, Sun liked to place round colored stickers on the boards, and > they placed the date and a persons initials on the sticker. Probably test and QA markers. > > The strange thing is, on the cpu board, the sticker is dated 3-22-81, which > is 2 years before this board was created! Sun 'upgraded' these units to use > sun 2 cpu's, and the company only started shipping the first Sun 1 units > in May of 82, and the 3Com board has a date of 9-21-83 which makes more > reasonable sense to me (I had heard that we purchased the last of the Sun 1 > units and a bunch of sun 2's, as part of a package discount deal). Anyways, It's possible the board was created in 3/22/81 and the rest of the system took a year to finish being designed and assembled. > it seems strange. > > Another strange thing about that cpu card, is that sun apparently didnt > have any 24 pin DIP sockets, because they placed 16 and 8 pin DIP sockets > next to each other on two occasions to form a larger socket! Probably cheaper at the time. > > Oh, and I've always wondered about the 3 MBIT connector on the back of > the unit, which is in addition to the 10 MBIT connector. The original PARC Xeros ethernet was that speed... > > -Lawrence LeMay > > Bill Pechter --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 13 06:09:12 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Intel 4004 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > It's normal. Everyone feels resentment against Californians from time > > to time. Mind you, when you consider that mudslides, Santa Ana induced > > firestorms, earthquakes, and the inevitable slide into the Pacific make > > things a little less desirable, even with the presence of "California > > Girls", you CAN feel fortunate at not being there. > Exactly! California is a *very* dangerous place to be. Stay home! Wish I was there. Back home in Los Angeles you only have to shovel earthquake debris once or twice a century. Here in New Jersey you have to shovel snow at least a couple of times a year, and the last several winters have been milder than "normal". (Thank whatever gods there might be for global warming). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From Jgzabol at aol.com Sat Feb 13 06:34:12 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights Message-ID: <1a8d79c2.36c57144@aol.com> To my knowledge the blinking lights go back to the UNIVAC 1, 1951. They became famous - and therefore made their way to almost any computer of that time - due to the successful 1952 US presidential election prediction on TV. It is rumoured that the TV crew wired up a few more lights than actually part of the computer. John G. Zabolitzky From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 13 07:42:02 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights In-Reply-To: <1a8d79c2.36c57144@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > To my knowledge the blinking lights go back to the UNIVAC 1, 1951. Hmm, click on the picture of Simon (1950) on my home page, and you'll clearly see its toggles and lights: http://www.blinkenlights.com/ It is possible that Berkeley got the idea from working on the Univac (in the late 40's, when it was being designed by EMCC). I suspect that the earlier relay machines also used lights to help debug faulty relays, but I'm really looking for when lights were first used for output and switches used for input, similar to the way a bunch of the mini front panels worked. (It may be that Simon was the first -- I dunno.) BTW, I found some great pics in an online version of IEEE's Computer: http://www.indwes.edu/Faculty/bcupp/lookback/index.htm -- Doug From cube at msn.fullfeed.com Thu Feb 11 19:43:00 1999 From: cube at msn.fullfeed.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Intergraph Clipper hardware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What you want is an Intergraph InterPro. Stay away from the InterVue (huge cabinetry, with motors for the monitor platform and digitizing surface, etc) and InterActs. (I have an InterPro 2000, dual screen machine). The first InterPro was actually based on National 32000 chips. But after that, they were all Clippers. Intergraph ended up bying the Clipper part of the business from Fairchild, then a few years later went NT/Intel. An InterPro 2000, 2020, etc. would do nicely. Although many were dual screen, you can actually operate them with just one screen (and it might be possible to disable the 2nd screen hardware -- I have never tried that with mine though). Wisconsin DOT has been unloading quite a few of these of late, and they show up at the U. Wisconsin "SWAP" sale (every Friday -- they moved recently to the East side of Madison, WI) occasionally from that source. I paid about $50 for mine (but got a PS/2 server loaded with SCSI drives as part of the big box of stuff I got). Their Unix operating system, CLIX, was largely System V based, with TCP/IP networking from Lachmann and Assosciates. Intergraph recently released Y2K software for the beasties. Best of luck. Jay Jaeger At 01:57 AM 2/9/99 -0800, Kevan Heydon wrote: > >Hi, > >I would like to get a Clipper CPU based workstation but know very little >about what models were made. Does anybody have any information on what >machines Intergraph made. I do know that some models were huge dual >display + tablet systems. I don't have the room for these but if they did >smaller deskside or even desktop systems then these would be of interest. > >Many Thanks > >-- >Kevan > >Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger@msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Feb 13 09:00:44 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Sun 1/100U ... it LIVES! Message-ID: <199902131500.JAA21001@thorin.cs.umn.edu> My Sun 1/100U lives once again... reseated the boards and realized someone had removed the ram board. I just happen to have ram boards that came from a sun 2 server, and poof! It lives! The monitor is in pretty good shape, the image is shifted a bit, but it looks like its mostly if not all visible. The main problems are: I have no idea how to enter the local prom mode, or even if there is a local prom mode.. Whups! Looks liek one way is to let the computer time out on its boot attempt. I still cant get any help on available prom commands. 'printenv' printed a small hex-dump like thing, then immediately the screen cleared and rebooted... Anyways, main problem is going to be locating the OS for this computer. Does anyone have SUN OS for a Sun 2 class computer? I forget what its called, suntools or sunview or something like that.. -Lawrence LeMay From erd at infinet.com Sat Feb 13 09:00:08 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Books In-Reply-To: <802566FD.0066B05E.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk" at Jan 18, 99 06:56:15 pm Message-ID: <199902131500.KAA15098@user2.infinet.com> Philip, Did you ever get that $10 USD? The West book has been a treasure to me. I've known of it since I was a teenaged PET hacker, but never saw one to buy. Thanks! -ethan From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 13 09:06:06 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... ) Message-ID: <19990213150357322.AAB66@fuj03> What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connector and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While this is already promised out (once I find the top of the box), I do know that there's an ALTAIR hard disk controller box, apparently with a drive inside, judging from the weight, at Gateway Electronics in Denver, (303) 458-5444, if anyone's interested. It's the same size as the ALTAIR FDD box. Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:34 PM > > > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, and never > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, sure. The 8" > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > Allison From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Feb 13 09:33:10 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Need Civilization Pointers... (was: Re: Intel 4004) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990213103310.00926c40@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Ward D. Griffiths III had spoken clearly: >On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: >> On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> > It's normal. Everyone feels resentment against Californians from time >> > to time. Mind you, when you consider that mudslides, Santa Ana induced >> > firestorms, earthquakes, and the inevitable slide into the Pacific make >> > things a little less desirable, even with the presence of "California >> > Girls", you CAN feel fortunate at not being there. >> Exactly! California is a *very* dangerous place to be. Stay home! No offense, but my father (who has been there several times) says it's dangerous for the same reason he calls California "the land of Fruits and Nuts." There seems to be a higher-than-normal percentage of folks who are "not mainstream." Having never been there, I cannot speak from experience... but my wife has an aunt that's lived out there for over 30 years, and... well... while I do enjoy her visits, I am rather happy when she does go home. ;-) >Wish I was there. Back home in Los Angeles you only have to shovel >earthquake debris once or twice a century. Here in New Jersey you >have to shovel snow at least a couple of times a year, and the last >several winters have been milder than "normal". (Thank whatever >gods there might be for global warming). Aaaawwwww, Poor Ward! Shovel snow a couple times a year??? How's 'bout a couple times a week, for 5-6 months? Erm, that's why I own a snowblower. Yes, it's desolate... Yes, it's remote. Yes, the travel costs (more than just gas... there's time, wear & tear on the vehicle & driver, etc...) are nasty when you have to travel to "civilization," like I have to do this weekend (headed for Detroit for a funeral), but it's also quiet, and the biggest crime in my neighborhood over the last 6 months was speeding (usually mine... ;-) & the neighbor's dog taking a walkabout thru my yard. Great for me, sux for my hobby. Anyone in MoTown giving anything away that'll fit in the back of my Chevy Astro? (wink, wink) See ya, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From marvin at rain.org Sat Feb 13 09:43:54 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: front panels (again) References: Message-ID: <36C59DBA.847A5CA1@rain.org> Doug wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > > > I'll need to double check the name, but the Mac-8 Emac computer (Japanese) > > has a full front panel (8080 or Z80 CPU, can't recall.) > > Was that based on the Bell Labs (?) MAC-8 CPU that was mentioned here > recently? I'd like to see that one if you've got a pic. I just When I get back in the garage again, I'll dig it out and get a couple of pictures. This computer was designed and made available in Japan as a kit, and I have no idea if it was ever made available outside of Japan (mine was given to me in Japan.) The CPU was either an 8080 or Z80, and I really doubt it would have been based on the Mac-8 CPU; Mac-8 was the name of the Japanese company that made the computer. From marvin at rain.org Sat Feb 13 10:07:55 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Auctions, was Re: Yahoo: IBM 26 Card Punch References: Message-ID: <36C5A35B.CC135E4D@rain.org> Doug wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > > > Those of you looking for a real IBM Card punch need look no further than: > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/auction/2762650. This item is located in Maine. > > > > FWIW, there is some really good stuff being mentioned over on the ccauction > > list, and this is just a note taking a bit of pity on those of you who don't > > subscribe :). Thanks to Stan for finding it! > > I had talked to the owner, and I was going to mention it *after* the > auction was over so as not to spoil it for any bidders. Some good it did > those poor bidders to give you your own list :-( You should have known then that when I posted it, there were 0, zero, nada, etc. bids on it. If it makes you feel any better, you can look at my posting as an open invite for listmembers here to join the ccauction list. I told you before it started that starting the list would defeat your purposes of keeping auction items secret, and it had done quite well in that regard! I might add, it doesn't include everything, but it includes enough to make for interesting reading. From Mzthompson at aol.com Sat Feb 13 10:14:54 1999 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Zeos Laptop Message-ID: Someone gave me a ZEOS 386 laptop, Model S99102-000, circa 1990. It was in need of some minor repairs which were no problem. There is a small empty compartment of the left side, measuring 1/2" by 1 1/2" and about 4" deep and with a 20 pin edge connector at the back. Zeos support tells me that the only option for that was a 2400 baud modem and it is no longer available, which I sort of figured. I got to thinking that if that card connector were a serial port, it would not take much to fabricate a board to bring the right signals lines out to a 9 pin D connector to add a second serial port. My question is whether the 20 pin connector is a subset of the I/O bus or is it a serial port? If it is a serial port, then what is the pinout on the 20 pin connector, which signals are which pins? Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike Thompson From hansp at digiweb.com Sat Feb 13 10:34:37 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights References: Message-ID: <36C5A99D.E23F915D@digiweb.com> Doug wrote: > I'm really looking for when lights were first used for output and switches > used for input, similar to the way a bunch of the mini front panels > worked. (It may be that Simon was the first -- I dunno.) Well the Manchester baby machine had only switches for input in 1948. Output was by CRT display of the memory contents which might be thought of as lights. _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From Jgzabol at aol.com Sat Feb 13 10:31:11 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights Message-ID: <134edce7.36c5a8cf@aol.com> Doug wrote: << It is possible that Berkeley got the idea from working on the Univac (in the late 40's, when it was being designed by EMCC). I suspect that the earlier relay machines also used lights to help debug faulty relays, but I'm really looking for when lights were first used for output and switches used for input, similar to the way a bunch of the mini front panels worked. (It may be that Simon was the first -- I dunno.) >> Just a few weeks ago I looked at the Harvard Mark I, and I know very well the Zuse machines. No lights! John From todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com Sat Feb 13 11:00:01 1999 From: todd.osborne at barnstormer-software.com (Todd Osborne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: PCJr Color Diplay for adoption In-Reply-To: <36C5427B.70AF1D93@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <000501be5772$4b48c0e0$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> If you still have it, I have a PCjr that needs a head and would be happy to buy it from you. Thanks, Todd Osborne Senior Software Engineer FMStrategies, Inc. http://www.fmstrategies.com/ -------------------------------------------------------- FMStrategies, Inc: tosborne@fmstrategies.com Internet E-Mail: todd.osborne@barnstormer-software.com -------------------------------------------------------- Founder of the Virtual Windows Class Library (C++) http://www.barnstormer-software.com/vwcl/ -------------------------------------------------------- Anagrams? (http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/) Can you figure out this one? Want the answer? E-Mail me. COCO VERDI MOM (Hint: Think Late 1970's Computer) -------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "The timid die just like the daring, and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" - Michael Longcor > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Russ Blakeman > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 4:15 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: PCJr Color Diplay for adoption > > > I have a PCJr Color Display monitor, complete with the authentic block > type connector that APPEARS to be in working condition that I really > need to find a good home for. Not free, but cheap enough - $10 plus the > applicable USPS shipping (insurance at your request) My guess is the > weight is around 26 lbs. > > The monitor is in great phyical shape but has NOT been tested on a Jr > for picture. It does power and does give raster on the screen so I can > say that it is apparently in working condition. The $10 I want for it > basically covers what I have in it besides the time in locating a > shipping carton and hauling it to the post office, along with the minor > differences (if any) in calculated postage. > > This is for USA addresses only. I know people ship things outside the US > all the time, but I don't have the time or the patience for the added > paperwork and other thing involved in out of US shipments. > > Contact me by direct message please, not by replying to the list. The > monitor would come from zip 40144 in cae anyone needs to sneak a look at > approximate postage themselves. I hate to see a possible addtion to a Jr > collection go to the dumpster because someone was too cheap to spend a > few bucks on it. > > From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Feb 13 09:07:53 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: front panels (again) In-Reply-To: References: <36C4FCB6.C13FF2C7@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990213090753.21f720b6@earthlink.net> At 11:31 PM 2/12/99 -0500, Doug wrote: > >recently? I'd like to see that one if you've got a pic. I just >remembered that Scelbi made an 8B after the 8H, but I don't remember if >it had a front panel (I suspect it did). > >-- Doug Yes, it looked the same from the front. It has extra slot(s) for an aditional address encode/decode card so it could use 2102 type ram's instead of 1101's. -Dave From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Feb 13 12:03:01 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > > > To my knowledge the blinking lights go back to the UNIVAC 1, 1951. > > Hmm, click on the picture of Simon (1950) on my home page, and you'll > clearly see its toggles and lights: > http://www.blinkenlights.com/ > > It is possible that Berkeley got the idea from working on the Univac (in > the late 40's, when it was being designed by EMCC). I suspect that the > earlier relay machines also used lights to help debug faulty relays, but > I'm really looking for when lights were first used for output and switches > used for input, similar to the way a bunch of the mini front panels > worked. (It may be that Simon was the first -- I dunno.) I have a copy of the May '48 issue of Radio Craft.. it has a picture of the IBM SSEC on the cover, and more specifically the Operator's Console, which sports *many* neon blinkenlichts, *lots* o' switches, and is in front of glass-enclosed panels behind which are all those 12SN7 dual triode valves, in what appear to be plug-in modules.. I have to search back thru the history texts to verify that. Cheerz John From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Sat Feb 13 12:04:09 1999 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for Message-ID: The docs I have are titled "Altair 88-MDS Minidisk Documentation" they are copyright MITS, Inc. 1977 and listed as First Printing, July, 1977. The documentation describes both the controller card set and disk drive unit. From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Sat Feb 13 12:15:00 1999 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for Message-ID: I'm sorry! After reading my own email it appears a little gruff. I certainly didn't mean to offend you. All I'm trying to say is that MITS did have a 5-1/4" hard sector system available. - Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: allisonp@world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] > Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:34 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > > > > controller that > interface) was th > values), the second > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, > and never > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, > sure. The 8" > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > Allison > From gene at ehrich.com Sat Feb 13 13:05:42 1999 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Attn PC-jr Fiends! In-Reply-To: <19990210.225246.177.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990213140454.00985ba0@popmail.voicenet.com> I have some PC-jr items for sale on my web site listed below: gene@ehrich http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale Gene Ehrich PO Box 209 Marlton NJ 08053-0209 From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 13 13:19:56 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: front panels (again) Message-ID: <199902131919.AA03815@world.std.com> <> Here's the list I've got so far: <> <> Intel Intellec-4 <> Intel Intellec-8 <> Scelbi 8H <> Mark-8 <> Datanumerics DL8A <> Altair 8800 <> BYTE, Inc. BYT-8 (and Olson 8080) <> IMSAI 8080 (and OEM versions) <> Altair 680 <> Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 NEC PDA-80, an 8080 development system(8080 powered). <> mini's, and I'd especially like to know which computer first used this <> human interface. All of the first machines. As to being an interface it was more of a necessity as most did not have the ROM/PROM needed to boot without manual intervention or as a diagnostic tool. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 13 13:38:34 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... ) Message-ID: <199902131938.AA15857@world.std.com> Please contact the person in the message, not me... I'm just forwarding it from the newsgroup it was posted in... - - - - - Hi Folks. I am a software engineer and a "computer history enthusiast." I am looking for another such enthusiast to take over a project which I never got started... I am looking for a good home for my Digital = PDP-8e. The setup is fairly complete. The main enclosure itself appears to be fully populated with core, and I was told when I rescued it from going to the junkyard (9 years ago) that it was still working when they took it out of commission. (I have still not yet attempted to run the machine.) I have the original DEC "instrument rack" housing, a BIG whomping power supply, a 20 MB hard disk (six or eight full-sized 12 inch platters!), dual floppy drives (those are REAL 8 inch floppies), dual "minifloppy" drives (yup, the "little" 5.25 inch ones), and probably some other hardware lurking in that corner of my garage. I also have paper tapes (but no reader) for the following: * Monitor (they now call this a BIOS) * Utilities * Fortran compiler * Assembler ( I think I've got 5 different assemblers: - plain vanilla - relocating - macro - symbolic - macro symbolic - relocating macro symbolic ) * Other assorted goodies Here's what I am offering: [0] I am willing to part with all this FREE OF CHARGE! Provided... [1] You must be serious about RESTORING and PRESERVING this important piece of computer history! [2] Computer museums get first priority; then other museums, then private individuals. Ranking within these groups will be "first come, first served." Above all, I will attempt to be fair. [3] I would prefer the whole works go as a single batch to a single person/organization. If the end result is *more than one* working PDP-8 on display in more than one place, however, then I will be more inclined to split things up. [4] You are responsible for picking up the items or arranging their shipping. I've "paid" for the storage of this for 9 years, all I ask is that you pay for the shipping or pick it up yourself. [5 I would like to come see the machine in working condition (actually doing something) when you are finished with the project. I'll arrange my own transportation -- all you have to do is supply the invitation! :-) * * * Please let me know that there is someone out there with the interest in computing history to want to restore this cool machine, and with the skills to be able to do it!! Thanks in advance, -- john baldwin --=20 John Baldwin | jt.nojunk.baldwin#radio@link.net To decode address when replying by email: [1]remove 'at', [2] # becomes @, [3] remove spamblocker plus both = delimiters. - - - - - From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 13 13:49:11 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... ) In-Reply-To: <19990213150357322.AAB66@fuj03> Message-ID: Well, I would not venture to suggest just where it originated, but the 37-pin D-sub connector has pretty much (there have been exceptions) been the standard for connecting external floppy drives of all sizes. Almost all PC (ISA) FDCs that support external drives use it, and the Xerox 820 (CP/M) series used it. Most S-100 crates did not, as they typically ran the ribbon cable direct from the card to the drive. - don On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connector > and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I > found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While > this is already promised out (once I find the top of the box), I do know > that there's an ALTAIR hard disk controller box, apparently with a drive > inside, judging from the weight, at Gateway Electronics in Denver, (303) > 458-5444, if anyone's interested. It's the same size as the ALTAIR FDD > box. > > Dick > > ---------- > > From: Allison J Parent > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:34 PM > > > > > > that > > th > > > > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, and never > > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, sure. The > 8" > > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > > > Allison > From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 13 13:49:30 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: RCS/RI Message-ID: Does anyone know if RCS/RI is doing anything this sunday, and if so: what time does it start, what time does it end, and where are they located? Thanks very much --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 13 16:42:48 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Sun 1/100U In-Reply-To: <199902130520.XAA20896@thorin.cs.umn.edu> (message from Lawrence LeMay on Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:20:27 -0600 (CST)) References: <199902130520.XAA20896@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <19990213224248.3114.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Oh, and I've always wondered about the 3 MBIT connector on the back of > the unit, which is in addition to the 10 MBIT connector. Ethernet originally, before the DIX (Digital-Intel-Xerox) standard, operated at 3 Mbps. This might be useful if you buy a Xerox Alto. From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 13 16:45:42 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: Books In-Reply-To: <199902131500.KAA15098@user2.infinet.com> (message from Ethan Dicks on Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:00:08 -0500 (EST)) References: <199902131500.KAA15098@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <19990213224542.3146.qmail@brouhaha.com> > The West book has been a treasure to me. I've > known of it since I was a teenaged PET hacker, but never saw one to buy. If that's what I think it is, I want one too. I've been trying to find one forever, but I couldn't recall the title or the author's name. Could you post some more information about it? Thanks! Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 13 16:52:12 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... ) In-Reply-To: (message from Don Maslin on Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:49:11 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990213225212.3185.qmail@brouhaha.com> Don Maslin wrote: > the 37-pin D-sub connector has pretty much (there have been exceptions) been > the standard for connecting external floppy drives of all sizes. Almost > all PC (ISA) FDCs that support external drives use it, and the Xerox 820 > (CP/M) series used it. Do you mean that the various systems that used the 37-pin D-sub actually used the same pinout? I was of the impression that there was no standard for it (before the IBM PC created a defacto standard in 1981), so I assumed that the IBM, DEC, and Xerox stuff probably used entirely unrelated pinouts. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 13 15:50:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Feb 13, 99 11:49:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 504 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990213/cb3a2ec8/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 13 16:43:59 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... ) Message-ID: <19990213224727962.AAC153@fuj03> There's good reason for that, namely, that the 8" FDD, for which a standard then existed, used a 50-pin cable, while there seemed to be several variations early in the mini-floppy game. The 37-pin cable you see on the IBM-PC FDC is certainly not the same, nor was it ever very important. The cable between the FDC in an S-100 box and the drives, normally 8" drives, normally packaged externally to the cardcage, was most often a 50-pin flat cable, though a 37 could have handled the task if you didn't mind that there was not a ground for every signal. The early FDD's were typically hard sectored and used more signals than were required by the later models. The insides of the ALTAIR FDD box were not simple and clean like their successors. Dick ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... ) > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 12:49 PM > > > Well, I would not venture to suggest just where it originated, but the > 37-pin D-sub connector has pretty much (there have been exceptions) been > the standard for connecting external floppy drives of all sizes. Almost > all PC (ISA) FDCs that support external drives use it, and the Xerox 820 > (CP/M) series used it. Most S-100 crates did not, as they typically ran > the ribbon cable direct from the card to the drive. > > - don > > > On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > What I find odd about the MITS FDD is that they used a 37-pin "D" connector > > and cable as opposed to the 50-pin more commonly seen on the 8" types. I > > found one among a set of enclosures I bought about 20 years ago. While > > this is already promised out (once I find the top of the box), I do know > > that there's an ALTAIR hard disk controller box, apparently with a drive > > inside, judging from the weight, at Gateway Electronics in Denver, (303) > > 458-5444, if anyone's interested. It's the same size as the ALTAIR FDD > > box. > > > > Dick > > > > ---------- > > > From: Allison J Parent > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > > Subject: RE: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for > > > Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 6:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > th > > > > > > > > Well heres where I stand on it. Never seen one, I was there, and never > > > seen an advert for one, I have back issues. Was it possible, sure. The > > 8" > > > design with some tweeks would certainly do minifloppy. > > > > > > Allison > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 13 16:49:11 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... ) Message-ID: <19990213224727962.AAD153@fuj03> I'm not sure you're right about the assertion that 37 is enough. Maybe, but the old drives used more signals than the later ones. The shielded cables using the DC37 connectors certainly were more durable than the IDC50 types one often sees, but the cable hardware in the ALTAIR box certainly was the cheapest available. I doubt it was any more solid than the IDC types. Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altairdisk sells for... ) > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 12:38 PM > > > > Standards and common connectors. My Vt180 (uses minifloppies) also uses > D37 on the cpu end rather than 34 or 50 pin. Reason, higher reliability > connector (more costly too). Lots of system used that as the connector > instead of the now common IDCs. > > FYI even for 8" disks of the 50, 25 lines are ground there are a few unused > and others that were not often used so 37 pins are plenty. > > Allison > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 13 16:59:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:09 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair In-Reply-To: <19990213225212.3185.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 13, 99 10:52:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 817 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990213/55b93ce7/attachment.ksh From manney at hmcltd.net Sat Feb 13 18:14:22 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Hard Drive Partitions Message-ID: <199902140014.QAA31092@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Yes, I guess that would have been polite to have provided more details. Sorry. These are WD Caviar IDE drives, one around 200, the other around 500, master/slave jumpers correctly set, running as single drive off IDE channel #2 on a P1 (socket 7) motherboard. Running Win95 "A". The BIOS autorecognizes both drives. Thanks for any input Manney >> I have a couple of old WD hard drives I'm trying to revitalize. They say >> they have no partitions, but when I try to lay in a partition, they say >> there's no room. >> >> Would a LLF take care of this (vide recent discussion)? > >What model drives? What model controller(s)? "Old" is a flexible >term with computers, and WD has been around through a lot of the >evolution of hard disk technology. Some combos don't work at all, >attaching a WD1003 controller to a Caviar of any size doesn't work, >for example >-- >Ward Griffiths > >WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco, >and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it. > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Feb 13 19:26:29 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.0.3 Message-ID: <199902140126.TAA21422@thorin.cs.umn.edu> It looks like the last version of SunOS that I can run on a Sun 1/100U is version 4.0.3, however i'm not sure if I have enough ram to use that version. It looks like I can only add 2 ram boards, and all I have are 1Meg ram boards... Does anyone have 4.0.3 that they could supply to me in some form? Or is there a better alternative for sun 2's with low ram (sun 1/100U is apparently very hardware equivalent to the earliest sun 2's, at least from a software perspective). Perhaps there is a X11 version that might run acceptably from a sun with 2Meg of ram. The Sun 1/100U does not have any way to connect peripherals such as hard drives, so the unit will have to be booted from the network. I guess its almost time for me to brush up on tftp protocol, assuming I can find some OS to run on this computer. I dont suppose anyone has a sun multibus 4Meg memory board they would be willing to trade? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 13 19:34:43 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: hamfest and HP cables In-Reply-To: <199902130651.WAA19831@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.1.16.19990213004020.2507fda6@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990213193443.443f9fb8@intellistar.net> At 10:51 PM 2/12/99 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> I also found some HP cables. They have a DB-25 female connector and a 36 >> pin Aphenol connector on the other. They have part number 13242D on them. >> Anyone know what they're for? > >"Aphenol" connector? Does this look like it wants to fit over a card >edge, or like it wants to fit a connector with ears e.g. "Centronics" >printer connector? No, it has the ears with the notches in them for wire clips to snap into. Yesm they're Centronics style. It looks like a standard PC parallel printer cable but the DB-25 is female instead of male. Joe > >If it's for a card edge (which I think it is -- I think 13242 is the >part number for this), it's the cable that goes between a 264X >terminal's datacomm card and...hmm, female connector, 13242D, I'm >going to guess it's to connect up to some sort of DTE-type device but >I'm not sure which. > >-Frank McConnell > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 13 21:19:13 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds Message-ID: I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Then there were a few Tandy cartridges, and a TI-99/4A "Terminal Emulator 2" cartride that I picked up at the same place. At my favorite book store I got a couple cool books "Machine and Assembly Language programming of the PDP-11", and "Studies in Operating Systems". The OS book looks to be fascinating as it was published in 1976 and has sections on the Burroughs B5500 Master Control Program, CDC Scope 3.2, T.H.E. Multiprogramming System, and the TITAN Supervisor. I didn't find any computers really, just a TRS-80 that was only part there, and a lot of PC clones. Nothing worth bringing home. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 13 21:22:47 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair disk sells for... ) In-Reply-To: <19990213225212.3185.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 13 Feb 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > the 37-pin D-sub connector has pretty much (there have been exceptions) been > > the standard for connecting external floppy drives of all sizes. Almost > > all PC (ISA) FDCs that support external drives use it, and the Xerox 820 > > (CP/M) series used it. > > Do you mean that the various systems that used the 37-pin D-sub actually > used the same pinout? I was of the impression that there was no standard > for it (before the IBM PC created a defacto standard in 1981), so I > assumed that the IBM, DEC, and Xerox stuff probably used entirely unrelated > pinouts. No, and I did not intend to imply that the pinouts were common. Only that the connector hardware was pretty much standard for external floppy drives. The Xerox 820 pinout is, in fact, rather different than the ISA card pinout for external floppies. - don From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 13 21:05:11 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Need Civilization Pointers... (was: Re: Intel 4004) In-Reply-To: Roger Merchberger's message of Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:33:10 -0500 References: <3.0.1.32.19990213103310.00926c40@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <199902140305.TAA29789@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Roger Merchberger wrote: > No offense, but my father (who has been there several times) says it's > dangerous for the same reason he calls California "the land of Fruits and > Nuts." daemonweed[121] % fortune -o -m granola %% (fortunes-o) Living in Hollywood is like living in a bowl of granola. What ain't fruits and nuts is flakes. daemonweed[122] % I don't know how long that's been in the fortune file, but I remember it from when I lived in Maryland so it's probably before 1989. -Frank McConnell From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 13 21:12:51 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: hamfest and HP cables In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:34:43 References: <3.0.1.16.19990213004020.2507fda6@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19990213193443.443f9fb8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902140312.TAA29798@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > No, it has the ears with the notches in them for wire clips to snap > into. Yesm they're Centronics style. It looks like a standard PC parallel > printer cable but the DB-25 is female instead of male. The 13242 p/n in strangely familiar to me, so I'm thinking it probably went to one of the HP terminals I used to have to deal with. That it's a Amphenol "Centronics-style" connector makes me think it's for a 262X-family terminal, but I'd expect the Amphenol connector to be the 50-pin flavor for that. Also I looked at a 2645 at the office today (still in service) and its cable has a 02640-xxxxx part number. -Frank McConnell From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 13 21:29:59 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, > but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're > Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided > floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in > protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Those are "Three inch floppies". NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH '3.5"'! (nor with '3.25"' (Dysan) ) They were used in some Amstradt machines, in Amdek add-on drives for Apple ][ and RS Coco, the earliest (prototype?) Gavilans, and in a few Japanese computers that never made it to the U.S. (some model of Canon???) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 13 21:33:05 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM > Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I > correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? No, not a terminal but the second generation of the MC6800 based 4051 micro-computer that Tek marketed in the mid/latter '70s. The 4052 used bit slice technology in lieu of the MC6800. The 405x series had a backpack that would accomodate two ROM Packs, and a 'toaster' was an optional accessory for those who needed more capacity. > I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, > but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're > Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided > floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in > protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Amstrad PCW series used those, as well as Amdek drives that were sold for some of the early micros over here. - don > Then there were a few Tandy cartridges, and a TI-99/4A "Terminal Emulator > 2" cartride that I picked up at the same place. > > At my favorite book store I got a couple cool books "Machine and Assembly > Language programming of the PDP-11", and "Studies in Operating Systems". > The OS book looks to be fascinating as it was published in 1976 and has > sections on the Burroughs B5500 Master Control Program, CDC Scope 3.2, > T.H.E. Multiprogramming System, and the TITAN Supervisor. > > I didn't find any computers really, just a TRS-80 that was only part there, > and a lot of PC clones. Nothing worth bringing home. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 13 21:44:45 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.0.3 In-Reply-To: Lawrence LeMay's message of Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:26:29 -0600 (CST) References: <199902140126.TAA21422@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <199902140344.TAA00832@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > It looks like the last version of SunOS that I can run on a Sun 1/100U > is version 4.0.3, however i'm not sure if I have enough ram to use that > version. It looks like I can only add 2 ram boards, and all I have > are 1Meg ram boards... You could probably run any earlier SunOS. I used to run 3.5 on my 2/120 and 2/50, but I had 4MB in each, later 7MB in the 2/120. I also remember getting X11R4 to build and run on the 2/120 under 3.5, but can't remember how much memory I had at the time, just that it took 18 hours to build. I'm thinking 3.5 would be lighter than 4.0.x. I remember thinking about getting 4.0.x for my 2/120 so it would support SCSI disks (besides ST506 and ESDI disks attached via Adaptec ACB4000 and Emulex MD21) and deciding against it. > The Sun 1/100U does not have any way to connect peripherals such as > hard drives, so the unit will have to be booted from the network. > I guess its almost time for me to brush up on tftp protocol, assuming > I can find some OS to run on this computer. Last time I looked through /etc/rc* on a SunOS 4.1.4 system, I noticed that nd support was still there, and thought that it was probably still possible to get it to act as a boot server, even for SunOS 3 for the Sun-2. I'm not real sure how you would install it with just the tapes and a tape drive on the newer system though, but then I can't remember how I got the 2/120 to boot the 2/50 either. -Frank McConnell From Watzman at ibm.net Sat Feb 13 21:11:43 1999 From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Dayton Hamfest Message-ID: <01BE57A4.AC67F620@slip-32-100-187-199.oh.us.ibm.net> The Dayton Hamfest is a fabulous show. It is THE LARGEST amateur radio convention [it's "official" purpose]. The Hara arena is a very good size facility, I'd guess in the over 100,000 sq. ft. range (perhaps WAY over), and it's all indoor, heated/air conditioned [not that it works with 35,000 people in the facility], and all commercial vendors, many, many of which are used computer and surplus dealers (there is lots of new stuff also). It's about 60%-70% computer, the rest general electronics and communications [radio] equipment. The flea market takes up the entire parking lot, in excess of 2,500 vendors. There are many commercial exhibits in the parking lot also, you will find a number of very large tents (10,000 square feet range each). Mendelson surplus always has a large tent, and almost every year Radio Shack [as in Tandy] collects their entire surplus and returned merchandise stuff from all over the nation and sends it all to a big tent at the Dayton Hamfest where it is sold for often ten cents on the retail dollar. However they didn't do this last year, for the first time I can remember, but they still had a huge indoor exhibit with many items, new, at 25% to 50% below normal store and catalog prices. The show is logistically difficult to attend for several reasons. First, it brings in so many people [over 25,000 plus a large local population] that poor Dayton, which is hardly a tourist mecca, is complete swamped. You can forget about finding a hotel at this point, the people who do this show get their reservations a year in advance. You may have to stay in Columbus or Cincinnati [both about 70 miles away], fortunately both are directly on an interstate highway and it's not a bad drive. The other problem is parking, since the entire lot is flea market there isn't any ! There are some LARGE fields around the complex that are used for parking, expect to pay $5 to $10 per day, and they are not paved, or very close, which become a real issue in bad weather. Then there are remote lots with busses, but that's a hassle also. The show is May 14, 15, 16. Here is an alternative, the Dayton Microcomputer association has a twice a year computer show at the same site. It's just about as large as the Hamfest, and it's ALL computer. There is no flea market, the parking lot is used for - surprise ! - PARKING ! It's almost like having 3 Dayton Hamfests a year, except that two of them don't have the flea market. This year's dates (it's only a two-day show): Spring: March 13-14 Summer/Fall: August 28-29 I plan to attend all 3 events. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 13 22:11:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, > but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're > Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided > floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in > protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Amsoft disks were distributed by Amstrad for their various computers. I have an Amstrad PCW9512 and PCW8256. Both were marketed in the U.S. as word processors/computers. I have several 3" compact floppies with CP/M and Wordstar. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From ss at allegro.com Sat Feb 13 22:17:50 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Apollo memory boards seen Message-ID: <199902140417.UAA34350@bart.allegro.com> Hi, I saw a bunch (10?) of Apollo memory boards (4 MB?) at WeirdStuff Warehouse (http://www.weirdstuff.com), which is located in Sunnyvale, CA. The boards are in the "As-Is" section, and are $10/each, and are about 4 or 5 inches on each side. SS From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 13 23:16:19 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! original Altair Message-ID: <199902140516.AA27269@world.std.com> in other words the 4004 is not a particularly collectible item huh? that is if everyone can get one at frys. -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 5:41 PM Subject: Re: Intel 4004 >> > You have an Intel 4004? Where did you obtain this? > >> Everybody in the Valley has a bunch of them, David. We get them at Fry's. > >Why do I have a strong negative feeling against you at some moments ? > >H. > >-- >Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut >HRK From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Feb 14 02:38:54 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 model 50 or 50Z power supplies (set of 2) Message-ID: <36C68B9D.30AA3730@bigfoot.com> I have 2 power supplies for the PS/2 50 series of computers, as one unit to get rid of. Both are from working units. One has a red paddle, one white. One is from a 50 and one from a 50Z, but are interchangeable. The set of 2 goes for $5.00 to the first to claim them, plus the applicable USPS shipping. The two weigh about 6-7 lbs. USA and APO/FPO only please. Please include your postal zip code so I can reply to you with a shipping amount. The units are located in zip 40144. Money orders only please. From Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk Sun Feb 14 02:30:34 1999 From: Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds Message-ID: <00256718.002E3144.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> > I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM > Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I > correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? W O W !!!!!!!! See Don's earlier post for a description of the 4052. I have a 4052 and I lack the ROM pack. I would be prepared to pay something quite substantial for this if you are willing to part with it. Could you possibly ascertain shipping costs to UK, and let me know whether payment in US banknotes is acceptable? Please? > I also found two very interesting floppy disks, I think I reconginze them, > but can't remember the name of the computer I think they go to. They're > Amsoft CF-2 Compact Floppy disc's. They're double sided for single sided > floppy disk drives. They measure 3 9/10" x 3 1/10" x 1/5". Both are in > protective hard plastic cases and the one is still in the shrink wrap! Amsoft sounds very Amstrad, I must admit, but I feel I must put in that one system nobody seems to have mentioned that used 3 inch floppies was the Tatung Einstein - a Taiwanese (I think) Z80 based home computer that tried to jump on the BBC Micro bandwagon in the UK. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 14 08:54:51 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! originalAltairdisk sells for... ) Message-ID: <19990214145302357.AAA173@fuj03> Well . . . I'd make the observation that while the ALTAIR was certainly built in the mid 1970's, several of the other machines to which you refer were not, not were the "mini-floppy" drives which later became common. In the mid-'70's, both ribbon cable and IDC connectors were quite costly by comparison with up-to-then common labor intensive hand wiring. As the economies of scale took effect, ribbon and the associated connector mechanisms became both cheaper and more reliable, so that, by the time the mini-floppies were accepted, the associated ribbon cable hardware was firmly intrenched in the market. The plastic (T&B Ansley in this case) ribbon cable connectors were not the best available. The old 8" drives had enough signals which were used early in the game that the 50-conductor cable became the standard as opposed to the 34-pin, which could easily handle the operation of a drive once the later-accepted conventions were in place. At the time of the ALTAIR, these conventions were not yet in place. Dick ---------- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! originalAltairdisk sells for... ) > Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 10:16 PM > > > > At this point I'd say this. I was there and used then first products. > I even hand made cables. The oldest 5.25 floppies didn't used the full > 34 pins and the 8" drives didn't either. Many of the pins in the 8" case > were used in exchange for others but the odd pins in both 8" and 5" were > all ground and you didn't have to use all of them. the latter being the > common case. > > the best example of this is the DEC VT180 CP/M machine D37 on the back of > the box to a DB25 on the drives. The drives were SA400L or tandon TM-100. > > > Believe it. The cable was hand wired and IDC in the mid '70s was really > new, expensive and not quite ready for pimetime. IDC was more an early > 80s item brought to the party. > > I have the small but significant advantage in that I was old enough to have > been in the engineering business over 6 years before the altair. So I got > to "be there and see there" alot. That and I bought an early Altair > and helped a few business and hardy hackers build and get theirs going. > > Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 14 11:02:17 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: ALTAIR stuff (was Re: E-Over Pay strikes again! originalAltairdisk sells for... ) Message-ID: <199902141702.AA28232@world.std.com> Believe it. The cable was hand wired and IDC in the mid '70s was really <> new, expensive and not quite ready for pimetime. IDC was more an early <> 80s item brought to the party. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214075121.47af0256@intellistar.net> At 07:19 PM 2/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM >Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I >correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? Zane, have you been scrounging at Paxton's again? That's plug in ROM for a Tektronix 4052 computer.. I have a Tektronix 4051. I don't know if that will work on mine or not but I'd like to grab it if you don't need it. Joe From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 14 12:17:52 1999 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: PDP11/40 Handbook Message-ID: <199902141808.LAA21425@mail.konnections.com> Hi all: Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online anywhere??? Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar with them. Thanks, Mike Allison mallison@konnections.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 14 12:20:45 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Amstrad PCW series used those, as well as Amdek drives that were sold for >some of the early micros over here. Bingo! The Amstrad PCW series was what I was thinking of, and the Amdek drives explain my confusion. I kept wanting to say Amdek, but knew that wasn't the machine I was thinking of. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Sun Feb 14 13:56:29 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Great uP page In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 12 Feb 1999, cswiger wrote: > > > Here's a semi-interesting page of quasi-historical importance > > about uP's of the past. It probably doesn't jive with the > > classiccmp list view of reality, but discusses 40xx's, > > and {non-authoritatively} answers one members question > > about the uP in the Voyager probe: > > > > http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~bayko/cpu.html > > This web site along with many, many others are indexed on the VCF Links ... and since posting that link I've already found discrepancies between it and a NASA site about computers in space craft. From what I could tell, Voyager didn't use a uP. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From tomowad at earthlink.net Sun Feb 14 14:18:18 1999 From: tomowad at earthlink.net (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Needed: DEC PDP-8 'M220' module Message-ID: <199902142016.MAA18104@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I need an M220 module for my PDP-8/L. Does anybody have one for sale or know where I could find one? Thanks, Tom -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 14 15:07:20 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990214075121.47af0256@intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: > Zane, have you been scrounging at Paxton's again? That's plug in ROM >for a Tektronix 4052 computer.. I have a Tektronix 4051. I don't know if >that will work on mine or not but I'd like to grab it if you don't need it. Nope, Goodwill believe it or not. You're the second person to want it, haven't decided if I'm going to keep it or not. Of course if a trade I can't pass up comes along.... Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From pechter at pechter.nws.net Sun Feb 14 16:26:32 1999 From: pechter at pechter.nws.net (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: PDP11/40 Handbook In-Reply-To: <199902141808.LAA21425@mail.konnections.com> from Mike Allison at "Feb 14, 1999 11:17:52 am" Message-ID: <199902142227.RAA01252@pechter.nws.net> > Hi all: > > Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent > out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online > anywhere??? > > Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar > with them. > > Thanks, > > Mike Allison > mallison@konnections.com > > Somewhere I've got the Red PDP11 Mainframe handbook that was an 11/40 maintenance guide. I've also got copies of the PDP11 processor handbook What do you really need, an assembly lang ref, maintenance manual or what. Bill ex-DEC Field Service geek bpechter@shell.monmouth.com pechter@pechter.nws.net --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 18:45:57 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: weekend haul>> HP 1000 ? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214184557.2d5f19f8@intellistar.net> I just got back from a three day hamfest. Boy, did I get a LOAD of stuff!!!! My truck was dragging all the way home! It'll be days unloading and sorting this stuff. One of the interesting things that I got I **think** may be part of an A series HP 1000 but I can't find any of the part numbers in my HP catalogs. The serial number on the power supply indicates that it was made in 1980. Here's a description of it. A large 19” rack mount box, marked “Hewlett Packard 12979B I/O EXTENDER” It’s 19” rack mount box, 23” deep and 9” tall. It has a flat front cover held on by two 1/4 turn fasteners. It has nine slots in the back and nine slots in the front. The back slots are numbered 0 through 7 then 10. the front slots are numbered 11 through 17 then 20 and then DC PC. These cards are currently in it. slot PN Marking (3) PN 02100-60060 marked TERM (11) and (12) PN 12979-60029 marked I/O BUFFER (13) PN 12566-60032 marked MICROCIRCUIT (14) and (15) PN 59310-60101 marked BUS I/O (16), (17) and (20) PN 12566-80024 marked GRD TRUE IN OUT (DC PC) PN 12898-60001 marked EXT. D.C.P.C. All the cards have a card edge connector on the outside edge except for the TERM and EXT DC PC cards. I also got a LARGE box of cables that I *think* are for this device. They all have connectors that plug onto the card edges. Joe From erd at infinet.com Sun Feb 14 17:40:04 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Books In-Reply-To: <19990213224542.3146.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 13, 99 10:45:42 pm Message-ID: <199902142340.SAA05131@user2.infinet.com> > > > The West book has been a treasure to me. I've > > known of it since I was a teenaged PET hacker, but never saw one to buy. > > If that's what I think it is, I want one too. I've been trying to find > one forever, but I couldn't recall the title or the author's name. Could > you post some more information about it? Raeto West, "Programming the PET/CBM". It packed with lots of esoteric information including stuff on non-Commodore disks, assembly fragments to do useful things, many BASIC examples and more. I still program for the PET, but these days, for speed of developement, I use VICE and emulate the PET on my SPARCstation. I did finally manage to port Zork I from the C-64 to the 40-col BASIC 2 PET. Something about BASIC 4 is clobbering bits of memory, but I don't know where (could be the DS/DS$ stuff; it s very convoluted). -ethan From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 14 17:54:23 1999 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: PDP11/40 Handbook Message-ID: <199902142344.QAA01131@mail.konnections.com> I really need a copy of the pdp11 processor handbook... If you have a spare, let me know what you need to get it here. I'm at Zip 84404, Ogden, UT Thanks, Mike At 05:26 PM 2/14/99 -0500, Bill Pechter wrote: >> Hi all: >> >> Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >> out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >> anywhere??? >> >> Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >> with them. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mike Allison >> mallison@konnections.com >> >> >Somewhere I've got the Red PDP11 Mainframe handbook that was an 11/40 >maintenance guide. > >I've also got copies of the PDP11 processor handbook > >What do you really need, an assembly lang ref, maintenance manual or what. > >Bill >ex-DEC Field Service geek >bpechter@shell.monmouth.com >pechter@pechter.nws.net > >--- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 14 15:33:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 13, 99 07:19:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1196 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990214/2939d4cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 14 15:38:44 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: <00256718.002E3144.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk" at Feb 14, 99 08:30:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 966 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990214/102d98d9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 14 15:49:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Nanocomputer Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 624 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990214/6a26b286/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 14 17:50:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: weekend haul>> HP 1000 ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990214184557.2d5f19f8@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 14, 99 06:45:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1538 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990214/fcd91c2e/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 19:38:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214193815.424f43a4@intellistar.net> At 07:19 PM 2/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM >Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I >correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? Part of my haul this weekend was a 1982 and a 1983 Tektronix catalogs. Here's the description of the ROM from the 1982 one. "(4052 and 4054 only)" "Generates high resolution stroked characters that can be scaled, rotated and slanted to the user's specifications. In addition to the over one hundred standard characters, users can construct unique custom characters. The degree of smoothness is selectable for quick screen previews before final plotter copy. Addtitional commands are provided to extend Dynamic Graphic capabilities." Did you happen to get a manual for it? It's useless unless you can find one. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 19:48:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: PDP11/40 Handbook In-Reply-To: <199902141808.LAA21425@mail.konnections.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214194815.2d5fde3e@intellistar.net> Damm! Mike. Why didn't you post this a few days ago? I passed up a 11/40 Assembly language book for $1 at a hamfest this weekend. Joe At 11:17 AM 2/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all: > >Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >anywhere??? > >Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >with them. > >Thanks, > >Mike Allison >mallison@konnections.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 19:50:53 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990214075121.47af0256@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214195053.3067ade0@intellistar.net> At 01:07 PM 2/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >> Zane, have you been scrounging at Paxton's again? That's plug in ROM >>for a Tektronix 4052 computer.. I have a Tektronix 4051. I don't know if >>that will work on mine or not but I'd like to grab it if you don't need it. > >Nope, Goodwill believe it or not. You're the second person to want it, >haven't decided if I'm going to keep it or not. Of course if a trade I >can't pass up comes along.... That's Ok. I doubt it'll work in my 4051 so I'll let the other guy have it. Let me know if you find any other Tektronix computr parts. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 20:18:45 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: hamfest and HP cables In-Reply-To: <199902140312.TAA29798@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214201845.424fad76@intellistar.net> At 07:12 PM 2/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> No, it has the ears with the notches in them for wire clips to snap >> into. Yesm they're Centronics style. It looks like a standard PC parallel >> printer cable but the DB-25 is female instead of male. > >The 13242 p/n in strangely familiar to me, so I'm thinking it probably >went to one of the HP terminals I used to have to deal with. That it's >a Amphenol "Centronics-style" connector makes me think it's for a >262X-family terminal, but I'd expect the Amphenol connector to be the >50-pin flavor for that. Yes, I found a pile of cables for that type stuff this weekend. They have 50 pin Aphenol connector on one end that fits the serial ports on the HP 9000 200 and 300 series and a DB-25 connector on the other. > >Also I looked at a 2645 at the office today (still in service) and its >cable has a 02640-xxxxx part number. Wow, a 2645 that's still in use! I've never seen one at all except in catalogs. BTW I found some more 64000 stuff for you too. I got two 64650A General Purpose Processors. I'll start a new pile for you. ALSO I found two 64110 systems with piles of stuff including the adapter boards and cables! I'm going over one day to see what all the guy has. He's also got a HP drive that I think may have come from a 64110 and it may have software still on it. Joe > >-Frank McConnell > > > > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 20:32:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214203247.2fefc4dc@intellistar.net> At 07:33 PM 2/13/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> I was out doing a little junking and ran across a interesting little ROM >> Pack. It is a Tektronix "4052 Character and Symbol" pack (C) 1981. Am I >> correct in assuming that it is for a Tek terminal? > >No, not a terminal but the second generation of the MC6800 based 4051 >micro-computer that Tek marketed in the mid/latter '70s. That ROM was used on both the 4052 and 4054 but not on the 4051. The 4051 first appeared in the 1978 (I think) catalog and last appeared in the 1984 one. I'm not sure of the dates for the 4052 and 4052 but both are in the 1982 and 1983 Tek catalogs. The 4052 used >bit slice technology in lieu of the MC6800. Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. I'm guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could retain the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. The 405x series had a >backpack that would accomodate two ROM Packs, and a 'toaster' was an >optional accessory for those who needed more capacity. I have a "toaster", it has eight ROM sockets. Neat device and a hell of a lot more complicated than you'd expect. It maps all of the (8) plug in ROMs into the same address space and switches them in and out automaticly. Each system can use two "toasters" at a time. Joe From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 14 18:49:48 1999 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: PDP11/40 Handbook Message-ID: <199902150040.RAA02846@mail.konnections.com> 'Cause if I'd a posted it then, there wouldn't have been one. Actually I've passed up a couple in the last few months, against my better judgement... Now, I need one... Thanks At 07:48 PM 2/14/99, Joe wrote: >Damm! Mike. Why didn't you post this a few days ago? I passed up a 11/40 >Assembly language book for $1 at a hamfest this weekend. > > Joe > >At 11:17 AM 2/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi all: >> >>Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >>out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >>anywhere??? >> >>Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >>with them. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mike Allison >>mallison@konnections.com >> >> > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 14 21:00:26 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: weekend haul>> HP 1000 ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990214184557.2d5f19f8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990214210026.4d976e9e@intellistar.net> At 11:50 PM 2/14/99 +0000, you wrote: >> >> I just got back from a three day hamfest. Boy, did I get a LOAD of > >And I thought I got an excessive amount this morning at a radio rally... > Tony, you've only heard part of it. Here's a BRIEF list. There's no telling what I've forgotten and left out! A large portion of a HP 1000, a like new HP 92 with case and manuals, three like new HP 97s with cases and manuals, a mint 11C with manual and case, PILES of HP 9000 200 and 300 series computers, hard drives, cards, etc and a huge external HP SCSI drive. I also hit the motherload of HP cables. I got boxs full of them. I also found two COMPLETE HP 64110 Logic Developement Systems (CPUs, hard drive with software, cables, ICEs, etc), a HP 3465 DVM, a real time clock module for a 9825/35/45, a bar code wand and box for the HP 150, a HP polar display unit and more, more, more! Probably one of my best finds was a HP 3468 meter with the HP-IL interface. I've been trying to find one of them for ten years. Now I just have to find a place to put it all! >> One of the interesting things that I got I **think** may be part of an= >> A >> series HP 1000 but I can't find any of the part numbers in my HP catalogs. > >I am guessing here, because I don't have an HP catalogue at all... > >> The serial number on the power supply indicates that it was made in 198= >> 0.=20 >> >> Here's a description of it. >> >> A large 19=94 rack mount box, marked =93Hewlett Packard 12979B I/O EXT= >> ENDER=94 > >Guess : It's an expanison box. Something to stick more I/O cards in when >all the slots in the CPU are full. > >> It=92s 19=94 rack mount box, 23=94 deep and 9=94 tall. It has a flat fr= >> ont cover >> held on by two 1/4 turn fasteners. It has nine slots in the back and nin= >> e >> slots in the front. The back slots are numbered 0 through 7 then 10. the >> front slots are numbered 11 through 17 then 20 and then DC PC. These card= >> s >> are currently in it. >> >> slot PN Marking >> (3) PN 02100-60060 marked TERM > >Terminator? It would agree with there being no connector onit. > >> (11) and (12) PN 12979-60029 marked I/O BUFFER >> (13) PN 12566-60032 marked MICROCIRCUIT >> (14) and (15) PN 59310-60101 marked BUS I/O >> (16), (17) and (20) PN 12566-80024 marked GRD TRUE IN OUT >> (DC PC) PN 12898-60001 marked EXT. D.C.P.C. > >What (large) chips are on the cards? Sometimes that will help you >identify the function. Yeah, but catalogs are faster! Here's what I've found out so far: A large 19" rack mount box, marked Hewlett Packard 12979B I/O EXTENDER It’s in the 1981 catalog and is for the HP 1000s. They call it a Dual Port I/O Extender. It cost $5250 but it doesn’t give any details though. slot PN Marking (3) PN 02100-60060 marked TERM (11) and (12) PN 12979-60029 marked I/O BUFFER Since these have the same part number as the chassis I think these are part of it and probably are the interface to the 2100 or 21MX CPU.. (13) PN 12566-60032 marked MICROCIRCUIT (14) and (15) PN 59310-60101 marked BUS I/O I found this in the 1977 catalog. It’s called an Interface Bus Controller. The description says it “allows any 21MX or 2100 Series processor to interface with instruments that are programmable via the HP Interface Bus. “ (16), (17) and (20) PN 12566-80024 marked GRD TRUE IN OUT The 1977 catalog shows an item called a Microcircuit Interface, PN 12565. It says that it provides 16 bit Input and 16 bit Output DTL/TTL compatible lines. I think the Microcircuit card and these cards form three of these sets. (DC PC) PN 12898-60001 marked EXT. D.C.P.C. No idea yet. Joe From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 14 19:47:29 1999 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Rainbow Operating Systems Message-ID: <199902150138.SAA04662@mail.konnections.com> If anyone wonders what to fed their Rainbow, besides Concurrent CPM/86 at the unofficial CPM site, there is the DEC fpt server in Uppsala. They have a few different systems for the rainbow: CCPM, CPM, MSDOS, P-System (and possibly Fortran System). Check out: ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/rainbow/ You'll need a copy of teledisk and lha archiver. I believe they are also available on the same server. Have fun, Mike (They also have system stuff for pdp11's and 8's) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 14 19:44:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990214203247.2fefc4dc@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 14, 99 08:32:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 287 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990215/e2ec65f6/attachment.ksh From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Feb 14 22:04:27 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: PDP11/40 Handbook Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990214210425.006e22bc@cadvision.com> Hi Mike, I have a pdp11/45 processor handbook I can spare. I don't know enough about the -11 line to know how different the 11/45 was from the 11/40. E-mail me privately if it's any use to you. Mark. At 11:17 AM 2/14/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all: > >Does anyone have a PDP11/40 Processor Handbook they can part with or rent >out? (I like that touch). Or is there a semi-legitimate copy online >anywhere??? > >Probably any good pdp11/40 assembly handbook would do, I'm just not familiar >with them. > >Thanks, > >Mike Allison >mallison@konnections.com > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 15 00:30:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990214203247.2fefc4dc@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990215003015.309f07ec@intellistar.net> At 01:44 AM 2/15/99 +0000, you wrote: >> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software >> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. I'm >> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could retain >> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. > >>From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the >instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction >missing on the 4052. That's odd unless they (Tektronix) never used that instruction since they claim the the 4052 and 4054 will run all the 4051 software. Does the 4052 service manual give that level of detail? The one for the 4051 gives NO information on the CPU instruction set other than what was in the Motorola 6800 brochure that's included in the manual. Does the 4052 manual give the entry points of the software routines in the system ROM? And there are (of course) some extra instructions on >the 4052 that aren't on the 6800. That's why some ROMs are 4052 and later >only. The 4052 and 4054s also have a larger address range and more memory, that may also be why their ROMs won't work in the 4051. > >At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements >an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating >addresses only. I wondered if they were using all 16 bits for data since they could use the 8 bit 4051 ROMs. Joe From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Sun Feb 14 23:01:12 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Books Message-ID: <00256719.00209753.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > I still program for the PET, but these days, for speed of developement, I > use VICE and emulate the PET on my SPARCstation. I did finally manage to > port Zork I from the C-64 to the 40-col BASIC 2 PET. Something about > BASIC 4 is clobbering bits of memory, but I don't know where (could be the > DS/DS$ stuff; it s very convoluted). I can't remember about DS and DS$, but these may use some formerly unused page 0 locations. I do recall though that the 8000 series used the former table screen line status bytes (whether the first or second half of an 80-character line), which was not needed when screen lines were 80 character anyway, for a lot of things used in the new screen management routines. The Fat 40, however, did need the screen line status bytes, and stuck the screen management junk at the end of the 2nd cassette buffer. So Cassette #2 can only be used for loading and saving programs on the fat 40. Other data gets corrupted. Anyway, West should contain it all, so best of luck when you get your copy... Philip. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Sun Feb 14 22:55:31 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds Message-ID: <00256719.001FAFE6.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software >> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. I'm >> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could retain >> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. > > From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the > instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction > missing on the 4052. And there are (of course) some extra instructions on > the 4052 that aren't on the 6800. That's why some ROMs are 4052 and later > only. IIRC, the only 6800 instruction not present on the 4052/54/52A/54A was DAA - decimal addition adjustment. Since the 6800 has no decimal subtraction adjustment, it was pretty useless anyway. The main difference is the 128K byte address space. Two bits in the processor status register were used for the 17th address bit (most significant) - one for instruction fetches (default 1) and one for data load/store (default 0). Most of the additional instructions manipulated these. Nice features included: if you changed the bit for the instruction fetches, it didn't actually change until the next ALUOUT -> PC microcode instruction, i.e. branch or jump. > At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements > an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating > addresses only. IIRC there are hardware features (like separate odd and > even ROMs) that would make it easy to make it a true 16 bit machine. But > it wasn't. Almost exactly. And it's not just separate odd and even ROMs - it has separate odd and even address buses! These hardware features do speed it up, though. The other main application of the 16 bit data path was that 2-byte instructions were fetched with a single memory cycle, and this happens quite often. The odd/even address logic meant this could be done at an odd or an even address and still work. My guess is that the hardware guys put a lot of work into that architecture, wanting to make it both nice and 16bit and like the 6800. Unfortunately, this took rather a long time, so the software guys just wrote a 6800 near-emulator in microcode so as to speed the software migration process. But this is just a guess. Philip. From Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk Mon Feb 15 00:57:56 1999 From: Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds) Message-ID: <00256719.00256682.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> >>> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software >>> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. I'm >>> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could retain >>> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. >> >>>From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the >>instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction >>missing on the 4052. > > That's odd unless they (Tektronix) never used that instruction since they > claim the the 4052 and 4054 will run all the 4051 software. Don't forget that at the user level, the 4050 series were BASIC machines. Any BASIC program that would run on the 4051 would run on the 4052. Some of the BASIC programs that needed ROM cartridges on the 4051 would run on an unexpanded 4052. Talking of BASIC, I think most of the cartridge ROMs were BASIC extensions. > Does the 4052 service manual give that level of detail? The one for the > 4051 gives NO information on the CPU instruction set other than what was in Not much detail, but it explains the addressing modes and lists the instruction set (although it doesn't tell you what the instructions do). It explains the CPU architecture, including the microcode format... > the Motorola 6800 brochure that's included in the manual. Does the 4052 > manual give the entry points of the software routines in the system ROM? Alas, no. Not a thing. I wish it did! > The 4052 and 4054s also have a larger address range and more memory, > that may also be why their ROMs won't work in the 4051. In part. As I said earlier, I think "software compatibility" meant BASIC software. >>At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements >>an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating >>addresses only. > > I wondered if they were using all 16 bits for data since they could use > the 8 bit 4051 ROMs. The memory management circuitry is a tour de force. Not only does it handle 16 bit fetches on odd and even bytes, it will decide whether you are addressing 8 bit wide or 16 bit wide memory and act accordingly. Really lovely machine. Yes, the 4052 ROM cartridges are 8 bits wide. Philip. From dburrows at netpath.net Mon Feb 15 11:53:35 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:10 2005 Subject: Australian resuce Message-ID: <002001be5911$1f37cfa0$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> The following is one of the type of instruments I have serviced for many years and it normally came with a PDP8 and many were upgraded to a PDP11 data system. If anyone is interested in details contact them directly to find out more. With the info they have on their configuration I would be able to give some help on details. Dan Newsgroups: sci.techniques.mass-spec From: Carl Braybrook Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:30:31 +1100 Subject: VG 70/70 FREE TO GOOD HOME Organization: Australian National University Hi We have an old 70/70 system sitting in a back room taking up space. If we can't find anyone interested in taking it off our hands we will be forced to junk it. Anyone with a real interest, please contact me at the Research School of Chemistry, Austarlian National University, Canberra Australia. tel # 02 6249 3570, or e-mail me on carl@rsc.anu.edu.au From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 13:25:53 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Books In-Reply-To: <00256719.00209753.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at Feb 15, 99 06:01:12 am Message-ID: <199902151925.OAA16336@user2.infinet.com> > > BASIC 4 is clobbering bits of memory, but I don't know where (could be > > the DS/DS$ stuff; it s very convoluted). > > I can't remember about DS and DS$, but these may use some formerly unused > page 0 locations. I knew about those... the problem is that the first invocation of DS$ triggers a BASIC routine to allocate space in high-string memory and entries in the variable tables. I may have to provide my own IEEE routines if I can't find a way to disable this behavior. Fundamentally, the problem is that the KERNEL for the 8032, et. al. never expected to be running in an environment when BASIC wasn't at least nominally running. BASIC 2 has no such expectations. This is why on the C-64 and VIC-20, you can have programs which take over the machine either in cartridge format or on disk, but still use the KERNEL to drive the floppy disk, the printer or whatever. > Anyway, West should contain it all, so best of luck when you get your > copy... I got it, thanks. -ethan From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 15 14:03:02 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds) In-Reply-To: <00256719.00256682.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk wrote: > > > >>> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software > >>> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. > I'm > >>> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could > retain > >>> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. > >> > >>>From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the > >>instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction > >>missing on the 4052. > > > > That's odd unless they (Tektronix) never used that instruction since > they > > claim the the 4052 and 4054 will run all the 4051 software. > > Don't forget that at the user level, the 4050 series were BASIC machines. > Any BASIC program that would run on the 4051 would run on the 4052. Some > of the BASIC programs that needed ROM cartridges on the 4051 would run on > an unexpanded 4052. And also that the command for direct access to machine code level was NOT proffered to the customers. Some of the field guys would provide it to customers that they liked, but it was not policy to do so. Certainly, also, some of the more knowledgeable users hacked it. Unfortunately, I have long since forgotten it :{ - don > Talking of BASIC, I think most of the cartridge ROMs were BASIC extensions. > > > Does the 4052 service manual give that level of detail? The one for > the > > 4051 gives NO information on the CPU instruction set other than what was > in > > Not much detail, but it explains the addressing modes and lists the > instruction set (although it doesn't tell you what the instructions do). > It explains the CPU architecture, including the microcode format... > > > the Motorola 6800 brochure that's included in the manual. Does the 4052 > > manual give the entry points of the software routines in the system ROM? > > Alas, no. Not a thing. I wish it did! > > > The 4052 and 4054s also have a larger address range and more memory, > > that may also be why their ROMs won't work in the 4051. > > In part. As I said earlier, I think "software compatibility" meant BASIC > software. > > >>At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements > >>an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating > >>addresses only. > > > > I wondered if they were using all 16 bits for data since they could use > > the 8 bit 4051 ROMs. > > The memory management circuitry is a tour de force. Not only does it > handle 16 bit fetches on odd and even bytes, it will decide whether you are > addressing 8 bit wide or 16 bit wide memory and act accordingly. Really > lovely machine. > > Yes, the 4052 ROM cartridges are 8 bits wide. > > Philip. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 15 16:15:24 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds) In-Reply-To: References: <00256719.00256682.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990215161524.3067bf96@intellistar.net> At 12:03 PM 2/15/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk wrote: > >> >> >> >>> Yes but what's interesting is that the bit-slice 4052 is software >> >>> compatible with the 6800 powered 4051!!! The 4052 is a 16 bit machine. >> I'm >> >>> guessing that Tektronix used the bit slice CPU so that they could >> retain >> >>> the same software but gain the power of the 16 bit system. >> >> >> >>>From what I recall (looking at Philip's 4052 service docs), the >> >>instruction set is not identical. There's at least one 6800 instruction >> >>missing on the 4052. >> > >> > That's odd unless they (Tektronix) never used that instruction since >> they >> > claim the the 4052 and 4054 will run all the 4051 software. >> >> Don't forget that at the user level, the 4050 series were BASIC machines. >> Any BASIC program that would run on the 4051 would run on the 4052. Some >> of the BASIC programs that needed ROM cartridges on the 4051 would run on >> an unexpanded 4052. > >And also that the command for direct access to machine code level was NOT >proffered to the customers. Some of the field guys would provide it to >customers that they liked, but it was not policy to do so. Certainly, >also, some of the more knowledgeable users hacked it. > >Unfortunately, I have long since forgotten it :{ Arrggg! I can't believe you forgot that! That's like saying you found the holy grail, then lost it! Joe > > - don > >> Talking of BASIC, I think most of the cartridge ROMs were BASIC extensions. >> >> > Does the 4052 service manual give that level of detail? The one for >> the >> > 4051 gives NO information on the CPU instruction set other than what was >> in >> >> Not much detail, but it explains the addressing modes and lists the >> instruction set (although it doesn't tell you what the instructions do). >> It explains the CPU architecture, including the microcode format... >> >> > the Motorola 6800 brochure that's included in the manual. Does the 4052 >> > manual give the entry points of the software routines in the system ROM? >> >> Alas, no. Not a thing. I wish it did! >> >> > The 4052 and 4054s also have a larger address range and more memory, >> > that may also be why their ROMs won't work in the 4051. >> >> In part. As I said earlier, I think "software compatibility" meant BASIC >> software. >> >> >>At the hardware level, the 4052 is 16 bit. But the microcode implements >> >>an 8 bit processor - the 16 bit operations are used for calculating >> >>addresses only. >> > >> > I wondered if they were using all 16 bits for data since they could use >> > the 8 bit 4051 ROMs. >> >> The memory management circuitry is a tour de force. Not only does it >> handle 16 bit fetches on odd and even bytes, it will decide whether you are >> addressing 8 bit wide or 16 bit wide memory and act accordingly. Really >> lovely machine. >> >> Yes, the 4052 ROM cartridges are 8 bits wide. >> >> Philip. >> >> > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 15 14:59:57 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds) References: <00256719.00256682.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> <3.0.1.16.19990215161524.3067bf96@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36C88ACC.74006646@rain.org> Joe wrote: > > >And also that the command for direct access to machine code level was NOT > >proffered to the customers. Some of the field guys would provide it to > >customers that they liked, but it was not policy to do so. Certainly, > >also, some of the more knowledgeable users hacked it. > > > >Unfortunately, I have long since forgotten it :{ > > -don > > Arrggg! I can't believe you forgot that! That's like saying you found > the holy grail, then lost it! No, this is more like knowing that a solution exists, and the only problem left is to find it :). Same thing with the installation of Win95 Upgrade; it looks for two files, and if it finds them, the installation proceeds regardless of whether or not Win 3.x is installed or not. After I found out about this, it only took a couple of hours of deleting and rebooting to find the necessary files. From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 15 15:02:24 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: New Stuff References: Message-ID: <36C88B60.9D65D1A3@rain.org> I picked up a Northwest Instruments MicroAnalyst 2000 today with what appears to be all the documentation. Not being familiar with it, is this something that is still in use today, or is it another contribution to the saving of vintage computers stuff? Picked up the documentation for the Sharp PC-5000, and that included the tech ref manual, SuperComm manual and software, SuperTools manual and software, and copies of the SuperCalc 2 manual. It looks like I have several copies of the documentation for the Datricon ACS 09 Single Board Computer. If anyone has one of these boards (or preferable extras!), I would be interested in picking one up. In any case, if someone needs one of these manuals, let me know. From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 15:20:51 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: New Stuff In-Reply-To: <36C88B60.9D65D1A3@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 15, 99 01:02:24 pm Message-ID: <199902152120.QAA18507@user2.infinet.com> > > I picked up a Northwest Instruments MicroAnalyst 2000 today with what > appears to be all the documentation. Not being familiar with it, is this > something that is still in use today, or is it another contribution to the > saving of vintage computers stuff? I have one of those. It's a logic/bus analyzer tool. Did you get any pods with it? If all you got was a box of boards and no cables, you're missing some important stuff. The company I got it from used it for M68K development and debugging around 1984 and onward. We never could afford the fancier pods (68020, etc.) so all of our designs were 16-bit-bus architecture. -ethan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 15 13:20:11 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Questions on the days finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990215003015.309f07ec@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 15, 99 00:30:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1100 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990215/fbe48a94/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 15 17:57:40 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Televideo 802 computer? In-Reply-To: <19990127172545934.AAA224@fuj0> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990215175740.3e2f6ade@intellistar.net> Dick, You mentioned you had a couple of the server units. Are they the PM (Personal Minis)? If so I just got a manual for them and two manuals for the InfoShare Operating System. I also got the disks for them. No luck finding an 802 yet. Joe At 09:59 AM 1/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >The 802 is the integrated computer/terminal unit. Call it a super-smart >terminal if you like, but it is a relatively convenient version of what >wasn't available much of the time back when these were current (early >'80's). It is not merely a terminal, though it will fill that function >nicely. > >Dick > >---------- >> From: Joe >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Re: Televideo 802 computer? >> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 10:18 AM >> >> George, >> >> Are you talking about the 802 (which someone said is a terminal) or are >> you talking about the computer? (model number ???) >> >> If you mean the computer then I listed it but I wasn't offering. It's >> still at the store. I was hoping they might turn up the computer. If >you >> need a copy, I'll see about getting it and making you a copy. If I don't >> find the computer sooner or later then you may end up with the original. >> >> If you mean the terminal manual then it's also still at the store but I >> don't want it so if you do then let me know and I'll see about getting it >> for you. >> >> Joe >> >> At 11:12 AM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >I actually have one of these with no docs... Who was it that was >offering >> >a manual? >> > >> >George >> > >> >========================================================= >> >George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com >> >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com >> >United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX >> > >> >On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> > >> >> It seems to me that the 802 was a televideo terminal with an >integrated >> >> workstation. These worked in conjunction with a server unit to run an >OS >> >> called MOST, I believe, and I have a couple of the server units, the >number >> >> of which will occur to me when I look at one again. >> >> >> >> These were fairly late technology, using 64k DRAMS and a 4MHz Z80A. >The >> >> servers had four or five serial ports using Z80 SIO's and either 10 or >20 >> >> MB winchesters to go with their 5-1/4" floppies. They used the >> >> WD1000-series HDC, which used an 8X300 microcontroller (I2L >technology, >> >> Harvard architecture) and the WD1000 5-chip set. I always admired the >> >> packaging technology, which was first rate. >> >> >> >> I have to believe the workstations were up to the same standard in >> >> convenient packaging. Televideo was late getting into the desktop >> >> workstation market, but did it in a big way with these numbers, as >they had >> >> all you could want. The OS was purported, by some users I knew, to be >> >> quite a bit superior to MPM, which was quite established at that time >(late >> >> '70's, early '80's). >> >> >> >> If anyone is interested in the server units, I can make them >available, >> >> less drives, and possibly a couple of SIO/2's which I scavenged years >ago, >> >> for the packaging/shipping cost. >> >> >> >> Dick >> >> >> >> ---------- >> >> > From: Joe >> >> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >> >> >> > Subject: Televideo 802 computer? >> >> > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 2:35 AM >> >> > >> >> > Does anyone have one of these? I found a manual for one of these >> >> yesterday >> >> > and it looks pretty cool. >> >> > >> >> > Joe >> >> >> > >> > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Feb 15 16:46:27 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: FS: *SEALED* IBM DOS 3.30 sets/5.25 AND 3.5" disks included Message-ID: <36C8A3C1.879FBCB0@bigfoot.com> I have just gotten 5 copies of IBM Disk Operating System Version 3.30 with 2-5.25" 360k and 1-3.5" 720k disks included. These are like brand new, never opened. Asking $6.50 per unit, plus $5 priority mailing in the lower 48 US states. AK and HI as well as APO/FPO may be more, will have to see on a case by case basis. First come, first served. Money orders only, please! I bought the box of 6 sets to get one copy for myself at $40.00 and $6.50 is about what each copy cost me, so I won't make any money at all on this. I know there are those that would love to have this for that classic, or to have with other verions of DOS. These are the small format manuals, not the encased notebooks so you don't have to worry about pages getting torn out later. I have calculated shipping from me to California, Chicago, NYC and Tampa to come up with a rate that is within a few cents of actual, hence the $5.00 shipping. All of the locations yielded a $5.40 priority mailing and regular rate is real close to that. If you want a copy email me directly at RHBLAKE@BIGFOOT.COM so I can give you a mailing address for payment. Not sure of my reputation? Many of you have bought and traded with me on eBay and on the lists so my reputation for delivering what I post preceeds me. I'm not doing this to get rich, just to fulfill my own nasty habit and spread the wealth among other with the same "disease". From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 15 17:29:11 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Intergraph Clipper hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990215172911.01885680@pc> At 07:43 PM 2/11/99 -0600, you wrote: > >Wisconsin DOT has been unloading quite a few of these of late, and they >show up at the U. Wisconsin "SWAP" sale (every Friday -- they moved >recently to the East side of Madison, WI) occasionally from that source. I >paid about $50 for mine (but got a PS/2 server loaded with SCSI drives as >part of the big box of stuff I got). So what's the new facility like? Is there a dumpster outside it? :-) I wished I'd had a chance to check the dumpsters when the moved out of the old site... must've been piles of stuff they decided not to move. - John From nfields at ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 15 18:37:15 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: DEC Vaxstation 3100 References: <3.0.1.16.19990215175740.3e2f6ade@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36C8BDBB.C6165961@ix.netcom.com> Not sure if anyone would be interested in this, but I thought I would send it out :) This seems to be a straight sale for 100 dollars http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C220+A0+R76444+Q356132750 Noel From Roger at Sinasohn.com Mon Feb 15 18:50:35 1999 From: Roger at Sinasohn.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990215165641.3e3f3d14@mail.9netave.com> Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive (or other external storage device)? Thanks! From rws at ais.net Mon Feb 15 19:34:13 1999 From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19990215165641.3e3f3d14@mail.9netave.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early > Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive > (or other external storage device)? Thanks! The Epson Equity LT laptop (model Q150A) did this, but you have to flip a DIP switch to tell it what you're hooking up to it. It's from '87 or '88. Richard Schauer rws@ais.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Feb 15 19:51:50 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: DEC Vaxstation 3100 In-Reply-To: <36C8BDBB.C6165961@ix.netcom.com> from "Noel Fields" at Feb 15, 1999 04:37:15 PM Message-ID: <199902160151.SAA22482@calico.litterbox.com> This doesn't seem like a bad deal, since they appear to include the monitor. (shipping will be horrific though) Fortunately for me, Tim says he's going to UPS my 3100 to me tomorrow. Whee! :) On a related (DEC) note, I was recently looking for memory for my almost classic declaser 1152. Dec still sells the simm for 94 bucks US, as it turns out. They also seem to be able to get cables for 3100s although I need to know the exact model number of mine to order the right one. > > Not sure if anyone would be interested in this, but I thought I would send it > out :) This seems to be a straight sale for 100 dollars > > http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P1+C220+A0+R76444+Q356132750 > > Noel > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Feb 15 20:24:48 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Games and classic computers Message-ID: <4.1.19990215181934.009be500@mcmanis.com> I fired up a couple of my Amiga games, one of which I wish to "clone" using modern hardware called StarGlider. This game was pretty revolutionary in its time as it provided lots of smoothly animated 3D things on the screen at once. In looking at this and browsing my amiga archives I came across a regular Amiga flame war which was held between the Game programmers and the Amiga users. The Game programmers were adamant that you had to "take over the machine" in order to get the necessary performance and there was no way you would ever have something like StarGlider running in real time with some OS back there stealing your cycles. I contrasted that with running Descent FreeSpace on my Win95 machine. It brings into focus the huge changes that have undergone this space in only the last 10 years. Amazing, simply amazing. --Chuck From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 15 20:19:54 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: New Stuff References: <199902152120.QAA18507@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <36C8D5CA.7E4CB302@rain.org> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > I picked up a Northwest Instruments MicroAnalyst 2000 today with what > > appears to be all the documentation. Not being familiar with it, is this > > something that is still in use today, or is it another contribution to the > > saving of vintage computers stuff? > > I have one of those. It's a logic/bus analyzer tool. Did you > get any pods with it? If all you got was a box of boards and no > cables, you're missing some important stuff. I went back and checked. There are a number of software disks, four pods labeled "Interactive State Analyzer", ribbon cables, an IBM interface board, a "State Analyzer Demo Board", and two versions of manuals. There is also a stick of chips with a label saying Input Chips, and to keep spares as they are sensitive to static damage. Haven't quite figured out why it was in there, but there is an IBM UCSD P-System Runtime Support package version IV.0. Just starting to make sure the disks are readable now. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Feb 15 20:22:15 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Games and classic computers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990215181934.009be500@mcmanis.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Feb 15, 99 06:24:48 pm Message-ID: <199902160222.SAA01131@saul6.u.washington.edu> > In looking at this and browsing my amiga archives I came across a regular > Amiga flame war which was held between the Game programmers and the Amiga > users. The Game programmers were adamant that you had to "take over the > machine" in order to get the necessary performance and there was no way you > would ever have something like StarGlider running in real time with some OS > back there stealing your cycles. > > I contrasted that with running Descent FreeSpace on my Win95 machine. It > brings into focus the huge changes that have undergone this space in only > the last 10 years. Amazing, simply amazing. Are you saying that Descent doesn't take over the machine? (I'm not being sarcastic -- I don't know either way, mainly because I use a Mac most of the time.) I've seen some vey badly-behaved Windows programs, and tons of DOS ones. I don't think Windows 95 or NT are very efficient, so I'd say that when performance counts, the truth is sometimes closer to the game-programmers' side than the users'. -- Derek From jlwest at tseinc.com Mon Feb 15 20:19:22 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: PDP-8E and TU10 Message-ID: <002b01be5952$c557ab80$0101a8c0@jay> Some time back I got a nice double bay DEC rack that is the dark orange color with beige trim. The top front has a slight slope to it (on one side of the rack this slope contains the controls for the TU10). I'm pretty sure that this rack is the "correct" rack historically for the 8E I received separately. However, in the rack I got was a complete TU10 with the TM11 interface. Since the unit includes the TM11 one can be sure that it was used with a Unibus PDP-11 system, not an Omnibus system. I'm starting to suspect that the TU10 was used with an 8, and the 8 was later upgraded to an 11, so the TM11 was added. How likely is this? More to the point, can the 8E use a TU10, if so via what 8E modules, and is it "historically accurate" to put a TU10 on an 8E? Or - was this a config that was possible but so rare as to not be representative? Can anyone shed some light on this? Jay West From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 20:34:21 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: New Stuff In-Reply-To: <36C8D5CA.7E4CB302@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 15, 99 06:19:54 pm Message-ID: <199902160234.VAA22026@user2.infinet.com> You wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > > > > I picked up a Northwest Instruments MicroAnalyst 2000 today... > > > > I have one of those. It's a logic/bus analyzer tool. Did you > > get any pods with it? > > I went back and checked. There are a number of software disks, four pods > labeled "Interactive State Analyzer", ribbon cables, an IBM interface board, > a "State Analyzer Demo Board", and two versions of manuals. There is also a > stick of chips with a label saying Input Chips, and to keep spares as they > are sensitive to static damage. Haven't quite figured out why it was in > there, but there is an IBM UCSD P-System Runtime Support package version > IV.0. Just starting to make sure the disks are readable now. The ISA card goes in a target machine. Mine is a PC-2 (5 slot 4.77MHz PC) with a 15Mb disk. All it does is run the Northwest Instruments box. I also have a pod that attaches to a 64-pin socket that has a 68000 chip on the top and pins below. You pry out your 68K and stick this tower in its place, and it traces the last 4096 bus accesses and disassembles the code in real time. Quite a box, if you have all the components. I used mine to prove to a hardware designer that his board was faulty (he swapped UDS and LDS on the 68000 socket, preventing byte-reads from working). -ethan From pechter at pechter.nws.net Mon Feb 15 20:37:15 1999 From: pechter at pechter.nws.net (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: PDP-8E and TU10 In-Reply-To: <002b01be5952$c557ab80$0101a8c0@jay> from Jay West at "Feb 15, 1999 8:19:22 pm" Message-ID: <199902160237.VAA75595@pechter.nws.net> > Some time back I got a nice double bay DEC rack that is the dark orange > color with beige trim. The top front has a slight slope to it (on one side > of the rack this slope contains the controls for the TU10). > > I'm starting to suspect that the TU10 was used with an 8, and the 8 was > later upgraded to an 11, so the TM11 was added. How likely is this? > > More to the point, can the 8E use a TU10, if so via what 8E modules, and is > it "historically accurate" to put a TU10 on an 8E? Or - was this a config > that was possible but so rare as to not be representative? > > Can anyone shed some light on this? > > Jay West DEC did sell 11's in Orange, Red, Green and Blue cabinets for a while (to match customer decor). I don't seem to remember the TU10 mounted in any cabinet with a top front slope. However, I worked on very few true TU10's. (More TE10W's TE16's and TU16's... This does sound like some of the 8 racks. How high is it? Five feet, Six Feet? However, it's possible that an 8 cabinet was used as part as an upgrade. I don't know about TU10's on an 8. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Feb 15 20:48:23 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Games and classic computers In-Reply-To: <199902160222.SAA01131@saul6.u.washington.edu> References: <4.1.19990215181934.009be500@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990215184329.00adb550@mcmanis.com> At 06:22 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Derek Peschel wrote: >Are you saying that Descent doesn't take over the machine? (I'm not being >sarcastic -- I don't know either way, mainly because I use a Mac most of the >time.) I've seen some vey badly-behaved Windows programs, and tons of DOS >ones. I don't think Windows 95 or NT are very efficient, so I'd say that >when performance counts, the truth is sometimes closer to the >game-programmers' side than the users'. What I'm saying is that Descent asks the OS for the machine and the OS gives it to the game in a controlled way that does not disturb other applications that are running. (I had an explorer up and a web browser). During the game I can "alt-tab" to a different application and then click on the program bar to resume it. While the game is running I can download software from the network, while the game is running other machines can print on the printer attached to this machine and shared over the network. Its not a "DOS" mode game, it uses DirectX and Win32 calls. It is pretty interesting. --Chuck From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 20:55:52 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III joystick available In-Reply-To: <199902160234.VAA22026@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 15, 99 09:34:21 pm Message-ID: <199902160255.VAA22121@user2.infinet.com> At a recent hamfest, I chanced across an item that was interesting enough to pick up on the hope that someone else can use it. It's a genuine Atari brand joystick, P/N CX-40, in the box, with manual, for a TRS-80 Model III. It has what appears to be a 40-pin edge connector on the end of the cable and some discussion on the manual on how to program for it. Any takers? -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 21:02:27 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: <199902160234.VAA22026@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 15, 99 09:34:21 pm Message-ID: <199902160302.WAA22167@user2.infinet.com> I just picked up an Apple ][c+ (enhanced ][c, w/3.5" internal floppy and 4.0Mhz 65C02) with monitor, stand, mouse and two Imagewriter I printers for the princely sum of $15, but lack modern software. All I have is a couple of 5.25" DOS 3.3 floppies from my ][+ days. I know this thing works: it boots and runs DOS 3.3; what I need is something a little newer. Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net like they have made older versions of MacOS available? Does DOS 3.3 support 3.5" 800K floppies (probably not). Is there a good repository for Apple ][ software on ftp somewhere? Thanks. I've been out of the Apple ][ loop for 15 years. I used to make my living programming kids games for it (company: Software Productions; products: Micro Mother Goose, Micro Habitats, Alphabet Beasts and Company), but I haven't used one since the company folded in 1984. In short: I'm not an Apple ][ novice, but I am ignorant of semi-modern advances in the Apple line. Thanks, -ethan From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Feb 15 21:19:08 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: <199902160302.WAA22167@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 15, 1999 10:02:27 PM Message-ID: <199902160319.UAA22854@calico.litterbox.com> > > > I just picked up an Apple ][c+ (enhanced ][c, w/3.5" internal floppy > and 4.0Mhz 65C02) with monitor, stand, mouse and two Imagewriter I printers > for the princely sum of $15, but lack modern software. All I have is a > couple of 5.25" DOS 3.3 floppies from my ][+ days. I know this thing works: > it boots and runs DOS 3.3; what I need is something a little newer. > > Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net like they have made older versions > of MacOS available? Does DOS 3.3 support 3.5" 800K floppies (probably not). > Is there a good repository for Apple ][ software on ftp somewhere? Yes. ftp://ftp.apple.com/dts/aii/sys.soft/8bit.system.4.0.2/ You'll need some kind of modem software to transfer it from whatever machine you download it from to the IIc, unless you have a mac and a 3.5 inch disk drive for the IIc. > > Thanks. I've been out of the Apple ][ loop for 15 years. I used to make > my living programming kids games for it (company: Software Productions; > products: Micro Mother Goose, Micro Habitats, Alphabet Beasts and Company), > but I haven't used one since the company folded in 1984. In short: I'm > not an Apple ][ novice, but I am ignorant of semi-modern advances in the > Apple line. > > Thanks, > > -ethan > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 15 21:29:13 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks Message-ID: <4396808e.36c8e609@aol.com> In a message dated 99-02-15 22:08:05 EST, you write: > I just picked up an Apple ][c+ (enhanced ][c, w/3.5" internal floppy > and 4.0Mhz 65C02) with monitor, stand, mouse and two Imagewriter I printers > for the princely sum of $15, but lack modern software. All I have is a > couple of 5.25" DOS 3.3 floppies from my ][+ days. I know this thing works: > it boots and runs DOS 3.3; what I need is something a little newer. > > Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net like they have made older versions > of MacOS available? Does DOS 3.3 support 3.5" 800K floppies (probably not). > Is there a good repository for Apple ][ software on ftp somewhere? > lucky dog! the //c+ is a nice machine and is the only // series model i am missing now. you'll only be able to run prodos on 3.5 although you can always plug in an external 5.25 and use that. nibble magazine used to sell dos 3.3 that was patched to run on 3.5 drives. it split each 800k disk into 2 400k volumes. i dont remember what they called it; have to look in my old magazines. there are two places on the net that are called 'ground' and 'asimov' that i've been told are some pretty good repositories of just about any apple // program. someone will be able to post the URLs, i'm sure. david From dastar at ncal.verio.com Mon Feb 15 21:50:50 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: <199902160302.WAA22167@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net like they have made older versions > of MacOS available? Does DOS 3.3 support 3.5" 800K floppies (probably not). > Is there a good repository for Apple ][ software on ftp somewhere? Yeah, try ftp.asimov.com. If you don't find what you are looking for, try posting a help request on comp.sys.apple2. Patches were made to allow DOS 3.3 to work with 3.5" drives, but ProDOS is what you want for simplicity's sake. It'll automatically recognize the drive and you can access it either by the volume name of the disk in the drive or by explicitly indicating its slot and drive number (ie. CAT,S5,D1). > Thanks. I've been out of the Apple ][ loop for 15 years. I used to make > my living programming kids games for it (company: Software Productions; > products: Micro Mother Goose, Micro Habitats, Alphabet Beasts and Company), Sorry, never heard of them :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 01/15/99] From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 21:52:24 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: <199902160319.UAA22854@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Feb 15, 99 08:19:08 pm Message-ID: <199902160352.WAA22824@user2.infinet.com> > > I just picked up an Apple ][c+ (enhanced ][c, w/3.5" internal floppy > > and 4.0Mhz 65C02)... > > Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net... > > Yes. ftp://ftp.apple.com/dts/aii/sys.soft/8bit.system.4.0.2/ Thanks. > You'll need some kind of modem software to transfer it from whatever machine > you download it from to the IIc, unless you have a mac and a 3.5 inch disk > drive for the IIc. I have a Mac and as I said above, the IIc+ has an internal 3.5" drive (slot 5 equivalent). On to conquer the mysteries of ProDOS. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 15 21:56:46 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Feb 15, 99 07:50:50 pm Message-ID: <199902160356.WAA22843@user2.infinet.com> > > Thanks. I've been out of the Apple ][ loop for 15 years. I used to make > > my living programming kids games for it (company: Software Productions; > > products: Micro Mother Goose, Micro Habitats, Alphabet Beasts and Company), > > Sorry, never heard of them :) Our stuff was sold from 1982 through 1984 by Reader's Digest. We mostly specialized in 6502-based micros (BBC Acorn, Apple ][, C-64), but we also did support the PCjr before our demise. It was one of the most fun jobs I ever had. I signed on as the resident Commodore expert. All the other guys knew each other from hacking Apples in high school. It was a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, before the dominance of the Empire from Redmond. -ethan From musicman38 at mindspring.com Mon Feb 15 10:11:06 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: Message-ID: <36C8471A.B0A65D09@mindspring.com> Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or keyboard and it tried to access drive A: Wonder if this thing has any real value. Anyone know how many of them were produced ? Phil.. From black at gco.apana.org.au Tue Feb 16 06:10:52 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Books References: <199902142340.SAA05131@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <36C9604B.D0DF62ED@gco.apana.org.au> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Raeto West, "Programming the PET/CBM". It packed with lots of esoteric > information including stuff on non-Commodore disks, assembly fragments to > do useful things, many BASIC examples and more. > This is one I managed to pick up a few days back, I have access to another copy (if anyone wants to pay postage from Australia & they're o/seas, I can get it for 'em), at the same time I got 33 Challenging Computer Games for tthe TRS-80/Apple/Pet by David Chance (they aren't!) & PET/CBM Personal Computer Guide by C Donahue & J Enger (a "Commodore Authorised" book published by McGraw Hill). This last was a bit of a find, it's so early, it only covers up to the 32k PET 2001 machines ;-), but it contains quite a bit of useful info that I hadn't picked up elsewhere. > I still program for the PET, but these days, for speed of developement, I > use VICE and emulate the PET on my SPARCstation. I did finally manage to > port Zork I from the C-64 to the 40-col BASIC 2 PET. Something about > BASIC 4 is clobbering bits of memory, but I don't know where (could be the > DS/DS$ stuff; it s very convoluted). > Is this available anywhere on the net ? > Cheers, Lance From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Feb 15 22:56:19 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: AS/400 tape (5763) available Message-ID: <199902160453.WAA24457@garcon.laidbak.com> Hello, group. Especially you big iron folks..... Going through several piles of surplus stuff at the shop where I keep my workbench, I came across a couple of AS/400 things. One is a tape, still sealed, labeled "System Program V3. 5763 -- PT1 and other programs." The other is a book, still sealed, titled "IBM AS/400 Redbooks Collection Kit, April 1997" If interested, email me off-list. Thank you for your time. We now return you to the classic comp list, already in progress. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 15 23:04:38 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: <36C8471A.B0A65D09@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <36C8FC66.799E6CDA@rain.org> Phil Clayton wrote: > > Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. > Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. > Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or keyboard > and it tried to access drive A: > Wonder if this thing has any real value. > Anyone know how many of them were produced ? I was over at the thrift store today, and saw a Sanyo MBC 555 and the monitor for $1.91 each; don't know if it had a keyboard or not. I have three of them here along with keyboards, and two monitors. From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Mon Feb 15 23:17:09 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports Message-ID: <0025671A.0021ED52.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early > Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive > (or other external storage device)? Thanks! (-: Roger, that's a very foolish thing to say on Classiccmp. For startres: An "Early" computer does _not_ mean "pre-1990". More like "pre-1960". Lots of pre-1990 machines used a parallel port to talk to floppy disk drives. HP and Commodore machines used HPIB/GPIB for example. And yes, that was the printer port on those machines too. Need I go on? Philip. :-) (I think someone else has already given a sensible answer, so I have no qualms about posting the above) From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Mon Feb 15 23:10:17 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds) Message-ID: <0025671A.0021836B.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >>And also that the command for direct access to machine code level was NOT >>proffered to the customers. Some of the field guys would provide it to >>customers that they liked, but it was not policy to do so. Certainly, >>also, some of the more knowledgeable users hacked it. >> >>Unfortunately, I have long since forgotten it :{ > > Arrggg! I can't believe you forgot that! That's like saying you found > the holy grail, then lost it! > > Joe >> >> - don Don, I'd almost rather you hadn't said that. Were you deliberately trying to raise false hopes? I am going to have a long look through the documentation I have - including several years' back issues of Tekniques, the 4050 series newsletter, and see what I can find out. Meanwhile, if you remember _anything_, PLEASE TELL US! Philip. From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 16 00:47:53 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Tek 4050 series (was:Re: Questions on the days finds) In-Reply-To: <0025671A.0021836B.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > > > >>And also that the command for direct access to machine code level was NOT > >>proffered to the customers. Some of the field guys would provide it to > >>customers that they liked, but it was not policy to do so. Certainly, > >>also, some of the more knowledgeable users hacked it. > >> > >>Unfortunately, I have long since forgotten it :{ > > > > Arrggg! I can't believe you forgot that! That's like saying you found > > the holy grail, then lost it! > > > > Joe > >> > >> - don > Don, I'd almost rather you hadn't said that. Were you deliberately trying > to raise false hopes? No, merely stating facts. And perhaps hoping that someone else had it tucked away somewhere. - don > I am going to have a long look through the documentation I have - including > several years' back issues of Tekniques, the 4050 series newsletter, and > see what I can find out. Meanwhile, if you remember _anything_, PLEASE > TELL US! > > Philip. > > From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 16 01:03:49 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Northstar Floating Point Board References: <199902142340.SAA05131@user2.infinet.com> <36C9604B.D0DF62ED@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: <36C91855.BE09FFC5@rain.org> While moving stuff around tonight, I ran across the docs for the Northstar Floating Point Board, FPB-A. Something in the back of my mind says that someone was looking for information on that board. If whoever that was is still interested, let me know and I can copy or scan in the manual (about 24 pages or so.) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 16 01:29:51 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: OT: Interesting article on predicting the dominance of Linux Message-ID: Here's an interesting article that makes some very compelling arguments of why Linux will unseat Windows as the dominant PC-based operating system: http://x14.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=qs]/getdoc.xp?AN=432897831&CONTEXT=919146928.934150245&hitnum=272 (This is a DejaNews URL) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 16 01:45:02 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Commodore Pet References: <199902142340.SAA05131@user2.infinet.com> <36C9604B.D0DF62ED@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: <36C921FE.50856E10@rain.org> I just ran across the letter from Commodore that preceeded delivery of the Pet that I have here. I found it interesting since it talked about the first production run. Quoting just a bit: September 16, 1977 Dear Customer, We'd like to talk about your order for the PET computer. Our production schedule is running about 30 days late. First production models will be metal rather than plastic and will be the 8 Kilobyte RAM version rather than the 4K. From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 16 02:36:30 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Old PDP-8 Pricing References: <000001be4fdb$f7e3b4c0$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> Message-ID: <36C92E0E.A691BBA3@rain.org> Just ran across a Rondure Company flyer where the price of a PDP-8 is listed as $500, and the 8/L and 8/I say to call for pricing. It occurs to me that someone living in Dallas, Tx might be able to research out the company and with a *lot* of luck, find a list of their customers who might have bought one. There is no date on this flyer, but the other stuff in the folder is dated 1971. The address then was: Rondure Company "The Computer Room" 2522 Butler St Dalas, Texax 75235 214-630-4621 Apparently they also sold some Carterphone stuff, and there is a copy of a schematic with the flyer titled "Low Speed Modem, Originate Mode." From mikeford at netwiz.net Tue Feb 16 05:39:40 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Hi, my current projects Message-ID: I found this list just a few days ago, I hope it is fairly active since I have a handfull of classic systems I am working on. Unisys 386sx microtower, this is a tiny computer (about 2/3 the size of a small desktop) and too cute to leave in the scrap heap I found it in. It is the former property of United California Bank, and has some motherboard memory stripped and I think the hard drive. Three IBM PS/2 model 30's, that wish to have parts comingled so that they might live on as one complete functioning computer. 386 and 387 chips and even memory are intact on one, but for reasons I don't know that unit has the power supply disconnected from the motherboard. I plan to apply some AC soon to see whats what. HP Vectra 466 / 66M, missing drives, some cables, but boots to diagnostic screen fine. Various Apple and Mac items that I generally understand. (Apple IIc, IIc+, IIgs, etc.) From jrice at texoma.net Tue Feb 16 06:31:02 1999 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Old PDP-8 Pricing References: <000001be4fdb$f7e3b4c0$01646464@codewarrior.fmstrategies.com> <36C92E0E.A691BBA3@rain.org> Message-ID: <36C96506.DFCD1C7D@texoma.net> Rondure went out of business a few months ago. Had a hell of a going out of business sale. James Marvin wrote: > > Just ran across a Rondure Company flyer where the price of a PDP-8 is listed > as $500, and the 8/L and 8/I say to call for pricing. It occurs to me that > someone living in Dallas, Tx might be able to research out the company and > with a *lot* of luck, find a list of their customers who might have bought > one. There is no date on this flyer, but the other stuff in the folder is > dated 1971. The address then was: > > Rondure Company > "The Computer Room" > 2522 Butler St > Dalas, Texax 75235 > 214-630-4621 > > Apparently they also sold some Carterphone stuff, and there is a copy of a > schematic with the flyer titled "Low Speed Modem, Originate Mode." -- ICQ 2286850 Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html Robotics Page at ttp://home.texoma.net/~jrice/hobbies.html All pages under construction! From black at gco.apana.org.au Tue Feb 16 22:37:19 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: C128 disks ? Message-ID: <36CA477D.109D8B8C@gco.apana.org.au> Hope someone can help. I'm after a copy of the CP/M disks that came with a Commodore 128D, on disk rather than a .D64 images, also, if anyone has a copy of Little Red Reader for the C128 on a 1541 or 71 disk, I'd be forever indebted. I'm willing to pay mailing costs to Oz. cheers, Lance From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 16 09:41:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: <199902160302.WAA22167@user2.infinet.com> References: <199902160234.VAA22026@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990216094112.4e4f2ef8@intellistar.net> At 10:02 PM 2/15/99 -0500, Ethan wrote: > >I just picked up an Apple ][c+ (enhanced ][c, w/3.5" internal floppy >and 4.0Mhz 65C02) with monitor, stand, mouse and two Imagewriter I printers >for the princely sum of $15, but lack modern software. Congradulations! I picked up one this weekend for $5 with two external 5 1/4" drives. I also got a 5 1/4" disk with ProDOS on it. i've booted it and it works. If you can tell me how to format a disk on the 3.5" drive and then copy the ProDOS to it, I'll make you a copy. Not an Apple person, Joe All I have is a >couple of 5.25" DOS 3.3 floppies from my ][+ days. I know this thing works: >it boots and runs DOS 3.3; what I need is something a little newer. > >Did Apple ever post ProDOS to the 'net like they have made older versions >of MacOS available? Does DOS 3.3 support 3.5" 800K floppies (probably not). >Is there a good repository for Apple ][ software on ftp somewhere? > >Thanks. I've been out of the Apple ][ loop for 15 years. I used to make >my living programming kids games for it (company: Software Productions; >products: Micro Mother Goose, Micro Habitats, Alphabet Beasts and Company), >but I haven't used one since the company folded in 1984. In short: I'm >not an Apple ][ novice, but I am ignorant of semi-modern advances in the >Apple line. > >Thanks, > >-ethan > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 16 09:47:24 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <36C8471A.B0A65D09@mindspring.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990216094724.2fcf35c2@intellistar.net> At 11:11 AM 2/15/99 -0500, Phil wrote: >Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. Then you paid about $3.50 too much! >Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. OOPS! The keyboard is special, only the Sanyo one will work on the 550. >Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or keyboard >and it tried to access drive A: >Wonder if this thing has any real value. Only as a low point in the developement of IBM clones. >Anyone know how many of them were produced ? Lots and lots and lots. I used to see them all over. Joe >Phil.. > > > From william at ans.net Tue Feb 16 08:19:02 1999 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.0.3 In-Reply-To: <199902140126.TAA21422@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: > Does anyone have 4.0.3 that they could supply to me in some form? Or is > there a better alternative for sun 2's with low ram (sun 1/100U is > apparently very hardware equivalent to the earliest sun 2's, at least > from a software perspective). Perhaps there is a X11 version that might > run acceptably from a sun with 2Meg of ram. > > The Sun 1/100U does not have any way to connect peripherals such as > hard drives, so the unit will have to be booted from the network. > I guess its almost time for me to brush up on tftp protocol, assuming > I can find some OS to run on this computer. I might be able to do some arm twisting and get a SunOS 0.98 tape. A guy I know (and first generation Sun head) has a working machine he picked up at a hamfest a few years ago. William Donzelli william@ans.net From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 16 08:36:32 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.0.3 In-Reply-To: from William Donzelli at "Feb 16, 1999 09:19:02 am" Message-ID: <199902161436.IAA02432@thufir.cs.umn.edu> > > Does anyone have 4.0.3 that they could supply to me in some form? Or is > > there a better alternative for sun 2's with low ram (sun 1/100U is > > apparently very hardware equivalent to the earliest sun 2's, at least > > from a software perspective). Perhaps there is a X11 version that might > > run acceptably from a sun with 2Meg of ram. > > > > The Sun 1/100U does not have any way to connect peripherals such as > > hard drives, so the unit will have to be booted from the network. > > I guess its almost time for me to brush up on tftp protocol, assuming > > I can find some OS to run on this computer. > > I might be able to do some arm twisting and get a SunOS 0.98 tape. A guy I > know (and first generation Sun head) has a working machine he picked up at > a hamfest a few years ago. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > That would be great if you could pull it off. I've given up on trying to get SunOS 4.x, and my next attempt is to restore a sun 3/60 and try to install SunOS 3.x which can then hopefully be used as a boot server for the 1/100U. But i'd much rather run an earlier version of SunOS as possible, mainly due to the memory constraints. -Lawrence LeMay From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 08:38:17 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: OT: Interesting article on predicting the dominance of Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > >Here's an interesting article that makes some very compelling arguments of >why Linux will unseat Windows as the dominant PC-based operating system: This hardly seems new beyond the numerological aspect... --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 08:49:08 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: DECMate III Message-ID: Hi, I finally picked up the DECMate III that was at my uncle's house. The WPS binders and software got thrown away, but I suppose I could download that stuff from SunSite. I have been told that this is a PDP-8. Is it possible to use 8" disks with this? It only has a dual 5.25" drive (RX50?). Forgive me, I am not familiar with DEC machines. Oh, and one more thing. Can the screen/keyboard be replaced with a PC running a terminal emulator? The screen is attached via a 15-pin cable but otherwise resembles a VT-220. Thanks. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 08:50:23 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Okidata 120 (Commodore printer) for free Message-ID: Does anyone in the Boston, MA area want an Okidata 120 printer w/manual? It uses the C-64 serial bus. It worked last time I checked. Thanks. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 16 08:33:34 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:11 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports Message-ID: <19990216145500561.AAA217@fuj03> This may well have been the case. It happens that Microcmputer Systems Corp. which later became XEBEC (remember them???) put out their first microwinchester disk interface for a 5 mbps drive with up to 16 heads interfaced via HPIB. It was purported to be compatible with HP machines. It happens I've got one of these early controllers, which has never been used, if anyone's interested. Dick ---------- > From: Philip.Belben@pgen.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Floppy/Parallel Ports > Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:17 PM > > > > > > Does anyone know of any early (pre-1990) computers, other than the early > > Toshibas, that used the parallel port to access an external floppy drive > > (or other external storage device)? Thanks! > > > (-: Roger, that's a very foolish thing to say on Classiccmp. For startres: > > An "Early" computer does _not_ mean "pre-1990". More like "pre-1960". > > Lots of pre-1990 machines used a parallel port to talk to floppy disk > drives. HP and Commodore machines used HPIB/GPIB for example. And yes, > that was the printer port on those machines too. > > Need I go on? > > Philip. :-) > > (I think someone else has already given a sensible answer, so I have no > qualms about posting the above) > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 16 08:45:01 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: OT: Interesting article on predicting the dominance of Linux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990216084501.00efd120@pc> At 11:29 PM 2/15/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Here's an interesting article that makes some very compelling arguments of >why Linux will unseat Windows as the dominant PC-based operating system: Poor imitation, weak logic, even "nexisms" (the neologism I'm inventing for the supposed intellectual validity of AltaVista and Nexis counts) ... sheesh, everybody's trying to be Eric S. Raymond. Check out for software that'll supposedly let you run several OSes at once, including Windows and Linux. As I've often ranted, it's more probable that apps from one OS will be emulated as necessary to various degrees, ranging from CDs of Microsoft- branded Linux, to even better Win32 APIs for Linux, and species in-between. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 16 08:58:34 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Games and classic computers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990215181934.009be500@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990216085834.00f24650@pc> At 06:24 PM 2/15/99 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote: >I fired up a couple of my Amiga games, one of which I wish to "clone" using >modern hardware called StarGlider. This game was pretty revolutionary in >its time as it provided lots of smoothly animated 3D things on the screen >at once. I imagine you met Jez San at the Amiga dev cons. I still keep in touch. He's still running Argonaut at , makers of StarGlider, StarFox, and Croc. Why, it was only four years ago or so that he moved out of his parent's house. :-) >The Game programmers were adamant that you had to "take over the >machine" in order to get the necessary performance and there was no way you >would ever have something like StarGlider running in real time with some OS >back there stealing your cycles. Take over the machine, indeed. Back in 1986, there was no choice but to do that for many intensive applications. A decade and a few doublings of CPU power, and suddenly 3D on the cheap is easy and fast in C++, even though the .EXE is larger than the amount of RAM in the old computer. There's also Argonaut RISC Cores at , where you can buy "the world's first user-customizable microprocessor". Some folks still use assembler on today's Windows machines. See Steve Gibson's site at . - John From musicman38 at mindspring.com Tue Feb 16 09:54:44 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (musicman38@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 Message-ID: <000a01be59c4$acbd45e0$eceecdcf@server> >Phil Clayton wrote: >> >> Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. >> Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. >> Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or keyboard >> and it tried to access drive A: >> Wonder if this thing has any real value. >> Anyone know how many of them were produced ? > >I was over at the thrift store today, and saw a Sanyo MBC 555 and the >monitor for $1.91 each; don't know if it had a keyboard or not. I have >three of them here along with keyboards, and two monitors. Can you get me a monitor & keyboard ? I goto the thrift stores all the time here in Fort Myers, FL and have never seen one of these in all the piles of computers I rumage through all the time. Must depend on where you live. I guess I will box this thing up and add it to my ever increasing collection of obsolite computers taking up more and more space in my garage. And I thought I got a good buy at only $3.50.. !!! Phil... From musicman38 at mindspring.com Tue Feb 16 10:23:41 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (musicman38@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 Message-ID: <000f01be59c8$b7e32300$eceecdcf@server> >At 11:11 AM 2/15/99 -0500, Phil wrote: >>Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. > Then you paid about $3.50 too much! >>Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. > OOPS! The keyboard is special, only the Sanyo one will work on the 550. >>Anyone know how many of them were produced ? > > Lots and lots and lots. I used to see them all over. > > Joe Joe, I know that you a special love for these machines (Sanyo 550) I have read your comments on the forum on the one you soaked so much money in trying to get it to run.. (HeHe)!!! Maybe they are worth collecting in the fact that they could possibly be the most "Incompatible" "Compatible" early DOS machine ever produced.. !! Anyway if they are so plentiful in Orlando how about getting me a Keyboard and a monitor for it.. !! I still have some have some change left from the $3.50 I paid for the CPU... Phil... BTW: The Clerk at the Thrift store was convinced it was a VCR, and now that I look at it, it does look very much like a VCR.. Same size, Same color (Metal Gray / Black Front).. OK that makes it collectable Right !!!! "In the year 2525 (If man is still alive, if woman can survive) Commodore 64 computers will still be plentiful and routinely sold at Garage Sales" From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Feb 16 10:28:04 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III Message-ID: <01J7T1NIUOMQ9EIV4Y@cc.usu.edu> > I finally picked up the DECMate III that was at my uncle's house. > Is it possible > to use 8" disks with this? There was an 8" controller for the DECmate II, but it's rare and I don't know if it works with the three. > Can the screen/keyboard be replaced with a PC running a terminal emulator? > The screen is attached via a 15-pin cable but otherwise resembles a > VT-220. Thanks. No. 15-pin cable provides video and power for the monitor as well as a serial port for the keyboard; although it looks like a VT220, it's a monitor and a keyboard, not a terminal. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 10:43:36 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: <01J7T1NIUOMQ9EIV4Y@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: >No. 15-pin cable provides video and power for the monitor as well as a >serial port for the keyboard; although it looks like a VT220, it's a >monitor and a keyboard, not a terminal. Is there a way to log into the D-25 COMM port? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Feb 16 11:23:40 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III Message-ID: <01J7T38FF7CY8X2D7N@cc.usu.edu> > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: > >No. 15-pin cable provides video and power for the monitor as well as a > >serial port for the keyboard; although it looks like a VT220, it's a > >monitor and a keyboard, not a terminal. > > Is there a way to log into the D-25 COMM port? That depends on what you mean by "log into" and how determined you are. One of the operating systems available on the DECmate was CTOS, allegedly some sort of multiuser commercial operating system. I've not used it, so I can only spread rumors about it. It might be possible to "log into" a CTOS system from the comm port. As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The console is run via a combination of hardware and slushware; the slushware provides terminal emulation services and the hardware provides the hooks needed by the terminal emulation services to appear as a normal console type serial device to OS/278 and WPS (which expect to talk directly to the console UART rather than via some sort of device driver). If you are sufficiently technically equipped and inclined, it should be possible to switch the console port (on which the emulator runs) and the 9-pin serial port for the printer. The first thing done by the firmware (before it checksums the ROM and loads the slushware) is to program the I/O addresses of the various hardware ports. It is possible to switch a few instructions in the initialization sequence to swap the addresses of the printer and console ports. Although I've _thought_ about doing this and investigated far enough to determine that it ought to work, I've not actually _tried_ it, so I could be wrong. There are a number of fun bits involved. The PDP-8 is a 12-bit machine. The ROMs are 8-bit parts (2716s). There are three ROMs, providing a 4Kx12 memory image for the PDP-8. The ROMs are interleaved in a funny way; I figured it out once and Lasner was able to use the information to extract a ROM image and disassemble it, but that was a few years ago. I'd have to figure it out again. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From jlwest at tseinc.com Tue Feb 16 11:32:28 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DUMPSTER ALERT - CAPE GIRARDEAU, MISSOURI AREA Message-ID: <00b601be59d2$537a97e0$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Ok folks - several people here had spoken to me about their interest in Prime systems...here's one... The following system is available: Lowboy cabinet ("Rabbit"): Prime 2755 cpu (known to work fine) Full size cabinet: Kennedy 1/2 tape drive (may need minor repair), 770mb disk drive (known to work fine) These two boxes are literally already sitting on the loading dock, the owner will likely accept any token offers. I used to do work for this customer and can vouch that they are in perfect shape except as noted above. Systems will include all manuals, OS tapes, etc. Email me directly for details... Jay West jlwest@tseinc.com From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 16 11:39:29 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Latest find: Apple ][c+ w/no disks In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990216094112.4e4f2ef8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > Congradulations! I picked up one this weekend for $5 with two external 5 > 1/4" drives. I also got a 5 1/4" disk with ProDOS on it. i've booted it and > it works. If you can tell me how to format a disk on the 3.5" drive and > then copy the ProDOS to it, I'll make you a copy. Joe, you'll need either the System Disk or a good ProDOS disk utility program such as Copy II+. Apple stripped the format command from ProDOS (whereas it was conveniently built-in to DOS 3.3) so you have to use a separate utility to do so. Both the System Disk and Copy II+ have format features. If I'm not mistaken a company called Beagle Bros. made an add-on FORMAT command (ProDOS was very extensible...it provided for adding user-developed commands and device drivers). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From Marty at itgonline.com Tue Feb 16 11:41:41 1999 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Winterfest hamfest, Annandale, Virginia Sun. 2/28 Message-ID: <1999Feb16.123238.1767.192906@smtp.itgonline.com> I have an attic full of miscellaneous IBM 3270's, 5150's, HDA's (some large Honeywell, IBM 3380 and other assorted HDA's), Apple ][ Plus, isa pc's, Tandy, Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 4, Non-Linear Systems Kaypro II (these are legion aren't they???), Panasonic Sr. Partner luggable, etc., etc., I'll be bringing to the hamfest for adoption. Paper as well, books, magazines, etc. Some software. The hamfest is the Vienna Winterfest which is usually held at the Vienna, VA community center. However, this year it is being held in the parking lot of Northern Virginia Community College (NOVA) located in Annandale on Route 236 (Little River Turnpike) just west of the capitol beltway. If any list members are planning to attend and have any specific wants, please let me know. Thanks, marty@itgonline.com From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 11:53:14 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: <01J7T38FF7CY8X2D7N@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: >As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The Ok, what does OS/278 look like? DOS? UNIX? CP/M? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Feb 16 12:04:02 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: from Max Eskin at "Feb 16, 99 11:43:36 am" Message-ID: <199902161804.NAA19043@crobin.home.org> > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: > >No. 15-pin cable provides video and power for the monitor as well as a > >serial port for the keyboard; although it looks like a VT220, it's a > >monitor and a keyboard, not a terminal. > > Is there a way to log into the D-25 COMM port? Hmm... not sure... The monitor/KB setup is the same as the PRO and the Rainbow, though. The hard part is having the keyboard. If, you've got that, then you can build and adapter to use it and a standard composite monitor. <<>> From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 16 12:28:54 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: <199902161804.NAA19043@crobin.home.org> from John Ruschmeyer at "Feb 16, 1999 01:04:02 pm" Message-ID: <199902161828.MAA23522@thorin.cs.umn.edu> This reminds me.. I have a Decmate III that I puchased 5-6 years ago, and I dont really know if its working or not. I recall attempting to make a OS/278 disk using teledisk, but apparently I wasnt successful. Is anyone with a Decmate III willing to make a boot disk for me, and perhaps add in whatever is useful for transferring programs to that computer, and mail it to me? At least that way, i'd know for certain if the computer is working, and then maybe I could play around with the system. Its no PDP8/e, but then what is?... -Lawrence LeMay From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Feb 16 13:52:18 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III Message-ID: <01J7T8QDTZWI8X272L@cc.usu.edu> Max Eskin wrote: > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: > >As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The > > Ok, what does OS/278 look like? DOS? UNIX? CP/M? It looks kind of like a primitive RT-11. :-) Filenames are 6.2. Of the three you listed, it is closest in flavor to CP/M, but it's really quite different; superficially it is similar (you've got the PIP command, etc.), but it is radically different under the hood. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 16 14:39:20 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: (message from Max Eskin on Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:49:08 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990216203920.19212.qmail@brouhaha.com> Max wrote about the DECmate III: > Is it possible to use 8" disks with this? No. There was an optional interface for the DECmate II to the RX01, but AFAIK there wasn't such a thing for the III. > Can the screen/keyboard be replaced with a PC running a terminal emulator? Not in the general sense, just as you can't replace the keyboard and display of a PC with a serial terminal. You could probably convince or hack OS/278 to use a serial port as its console, just as you can change the console on MS-DOS. But programs that expect to run on the normal console won't be happy. > The screen is attached via a 15-pin cable but otherwise resembles a > VT-220. Thanks. Yes, it uses a normal VR201 monitor and LK201 keyboard. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Feb 16 14:43:10 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: (message from Max Eskin on Tue, 16 Feb 1999 12:53:14 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990216204310.19234.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Ok, what does OS/278 look like? DOS? UNIX? CP/M? Just like OS/8. :-) It's not terribly similar to anything, but it's vaguely similar to CP/M, since the CP/M command interpreter was based on a mix of ideas from several DEC operating systems, including TOPS-10, RT-11, and OS/8. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 12:38:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8E and TU10 In-Reply-To: <002b01be5952$c557ab80$0101a8c0@jay> from "Jay West" at Feb 15, 99 08:19:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 557 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990216/1b3d72bb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 12:40:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model III joystick available In-Reply-To: <199902160255.VAA22121@user2.infinet.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Feb 15, 99 09:55:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 619 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990216/c7ae2884/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 12:46:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: <0025671A.0021ED52.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at Feb 16, 99 06:17:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990216/7649139c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 13:48:13 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <000f01be59c8$b7e32300$eceecdcf@server> from "musicman38@mindspring.com" at Feb 16, 99 11:23:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1602 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990216/20a25808/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Feb 16 15:52:20 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: SunOS manuals Message-ID: <199902162152.PAA23715@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Score! In my quest to get a sun 3/60 running SunOS 3.X, so that I can use it as a boot server for a Sun 1/100U, i managed to score not only a complete set of SunOS 3.2 manuals, but also the manual for installing SunOS version 2.0, AND... A small, but possibly complete, set of SunOS 1.0 manuals, revision D, dated November 1st 1983... I'm quite pleased with myself. of course, I had to agree to make a Apple Laserwriter Plus work from a Sparc 4 serial port... But such is life. D-ring binders... gotta find a bulk supplier of D-ring binders... -Lawrence LeMay From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 17:53:44 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >SCSI and SASI are parallel ports IMHO (they certainly aren't serial). And >plenty of pre 1990 machines used one of those interfaces for a disk drive. Seeing as he said 'the parallel port' I would assume he meant _THE_ parallel port as in 'the D-25 female connector with the pinout that was used on the IBM 5150'. When was this port introduced, btw? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From max82 at surfree.com Tue Feb 16 18:10:07 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III development Message-ID: The reason why I picked up the DECMate at all was because many of you are such fans of the PDP-8 instruction set. What could I use to experience this wonderful creation ;)? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Feb 16 18:11:04 1999 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Feb 16, 99 07:48:13 pm" Message-ID: <199902170011.TAA19310@crobin.home.org> > My $0.02. Nothing is ever gained by flaming machines that others collect, > no matter what bad experiences you had with them. I learnt that the hard > way after a rather memorable flamefest involving the Apple ][... > > Fact is, the Sanyo can be a somewhat interesting machine. It is not a PC > compatible, and it shouldn't claim to be. It is a classic (10 years or > more old) 8088 box. And for that reason it's on-topic here. > > Personally, I find the non-compatible 8088/8086 machines (Sanyo MBC550, > FTS88, HP150, Apricot, Sirius, etc) to be rather interesting and worth > collecting for that reason alone. Nobody is saying you have to do real > work on them, or not own any other computers. In a way, the non-IBM-compatible 80x86 boxes are probaby one of the few really interesting MS-DOS boxes from a historical standpoint. They represent a dead evolutionary branch- one where it was felt that a company could survive on sheer MS-DOS compatibility. Of all those, the Sanyo is probably the most unique. While most of the non-compatibles tried to be superior (Tandy 2000, TI Professional) or have an "edge" (Dec Rainbow with its dual processor architecture), the Sanyo seems to have been based around trying to build the most "cost-reduced", minimal box. <<>> P.S. I gave mine to Tony Eros because I never could find a keyboard. OTOH, I think I still have the monitor around here somewhere. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 16 20:15:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <000f01be59c8$b7e32300$eceecdcf@server> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990216201530.38ff9dde@intellistar.net> >>At 11:11 AM 2/15/99 -0500, Phil wrote: > > >Joe, I know that you a special love for these machines (Sanyo 550) I have >read your comments on the forum on the one you soaked so much money in >trying to get it to run.. (HeHe)!!! > >Maybe they are worth collecting in the fact that they could possibly be the >most "Incompatible" "Compatible" early DOS machine ever produced.. !! No I think that honor belongs to the HP 150! But at least HP told you that up front! > >Anyway if they are so plentiful in Orlando how about getting me a Keyboard >and a monitor for it.. !! It uses any NTSC composite monitor. I'll watch for a keybaord but I haven't seen any Sanyos for a while. That's why I said "USED to see them". You do know that my favorite trift store closed their computer department don't you? It's just as well, I've probably got enough projects to last me three lifetimes. > >I still have some have some change left from the $3.50 I paid for the CPU... Good, I'll add a "handling charge" :-) Joe > >Phil... > >BTW: The Clerk at the Thrift store was convinced it was a VCR, and now that >I look at it, it does look very much like a VCR.. >Same size, Same color (Metal Gray / Black Front).. >OK that makes it collectable Right !!!! > >"In the year 2525 (If man is still alive, if woman can survive) Commodore 64 >computers will still be plentiful and routinely sold at Garage Sales" > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 16 18:26:24 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III Message-ID: <199902170026.AA26437@world.std.com> As far as OS/278 and WPS goes, the video/keyboard is the console. The < I need information on two S-100 cards that I have acquired with no manuals. If someone has manuals on these, I'd pay a nominal fee for a copy, but in the meantime I'd like switch and jumper info. Card #1 is a Vector Graphic 64k RAM card. The card uses four rows of National Semiconductor MM5290 chips. There is one dip switch, 8 position, and lots of jumpers. Also, some circuitry that is not populated [U17, U18, U32 and a number of discreet components]. What are the 5290's, are these static or dynamic ? I was presuming it was DRAM, but I was expecting 4 rows of 4116's. Bad news, the memory chips and most of the support chips are soldered and are not socketed, which will be tough to fix if it doesn't work [and for a 20+ year old board, the chances that it works are not that good]. Can anyone help ? Card #2 is a Problem Solver Systems {PSS} Ram 16, a 16k static board with TMS4045 chips [those are 4k x 1 static rams, good chips, I have LOTS of experience with them and even some spare chips]. Two dip switches, one toggle switch and lots of jumpers. Need info. Anyone who can help, thanks in advance ! Regards, Barry Watzman Watzman@ibm.net From edick at idcomm.com Tue Feb 16 18:49:05 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Help - S-100 board info needed Message-ID: <19990217005144535.AAA180@fuj03> The National MM5290's were, essentially, just another version of the 4116, a 16-K-bit 3-voltage dynamic RAM. I've got some doubts about the TMS4045's as well. I think you may be surprised to learn that they are essentially 2114's, (slow 2148's) which are 1kx4 as opposed to 4kx1. The 4kx1 SRAMS (slow 2147's) were 4044's. I doubt you'll have as much trouble fixing that board by unsoldering as you'd have today. Modern boards have large ground and power plane layers which sink heat much better than those old 2-layer boards allowed. There's a good chance that I've got one in the basement. If needed, I can probably identify the parts for you if nothing else. Dick ---------- From: Barry A. Watzman To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Help - S-100 board info needed Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 4:57 PM I need information on two S-100 cards that I have acquired with no manuals. If someone has manuals on these, I'd pay a nominal fee for a copy, but in the meantime I'd like switch and jumper info. Card #1 is a Vector Graphic 64k RAM card. The card uses four rows of National Semiconductor MM5290 chips. There is one dip switch, 8 position, and lots of jumpers. Also, some circuitry that is not populated [U17, U18, U32 and a number of discreet components]. What are the 5290's, are these static or dynamic ? I was presuming it was DRAM, but I was expecting 4 rows of 4116's. Bad news, the memory chips and most of the support chips are soldered and are not socketed, which will be tough to fix if it doesn't work [and for a 20+ year old board, the chances that it works are not that good]. Can anyone help ? Card #2 is a Problem Solver Systems {PSS} Ram 16, a 16k static board with TMS4045 chips [those are 4k x 1 static rams, good chips, I have LOTS of experience with them and even some spare chips]. Two dip switches, one toggle switch and lots of jumpers. Need info. Anyone who can help, thanks in advance ! Regards, Barry Watzman Watzman@ibm.net ---------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 18:32:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990216201530.38ff9dde@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 16, 99 08:15:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1349 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/9056e6bd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 18:39:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 16, 99 06:53:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1584 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/61d2aa79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 19:19:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Help - S-100 board info needed In-Reply-To: <19990217005144535.AAA180@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 16, 99 05:49:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/b6fa88b0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 16 19:28:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Help - S-100 board info needed In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 17, 99 01:19:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 498 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/84bd0d6d/attachment.ksh From musicman38 at mindspring.com Tue Feb 16 08:00:12 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: Message-ID: <36C979EB.AC2FB1EE@mindspring.com> > > >At 11:11 AM 2/15/99 -0500, Phil wrote: > > >>Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. > > > > > Then you paid about $3.50 too much! > > > Joe, I know that you have a special love for these machines (Sanyo 550) I > have > > read your comments on the forum on the one you soaked so much money in > > trying to get it to run.. (HeHe)!!! > > My $0.02. Nothing is ever gained by flaming machines that others collect, > no matter what bad experiences you had with them. I learnt that the hard > way after a rather memorable flamefest involving the Apple ][... > > Fact is, the Sanyo can be a somewhat interesting machine. It is not a PC > compatible, and it shouldn't claim to be. It is a classic (10 years or > more old) 8088 box. And for that reason it's on-topic here. > Not to worry! Joe was not Flaming me he was just joking , we "Horse Trade" computers all the time and I seen him at several Hamfests in Florida.. I think I may have purchased some 12 computers from him to date at Swap Meets.. BTW: Last time I saw Joe at a Tampa HamFest he purchased A rather large pile of pure junk, all rusty and covered with mildew. I personally would have passed on it, but he was thrilled at the purchase (HaHa)!! So my Sanyo purchase for $3.50 can never rival that one.. !! I do agree with you on the fact that the Sanyo is rather unique as it was an early entry into the DOS compatible market place and for that reason alone its a "Keeper"... Although I do not really collect DOS machines I do have several that I think are special like, the Compaq XT portable, IBM XT portable, Kaypro 16 XT, and now the "Rare" Sanyo MBC 550.. Phil... From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 16 20:04:53 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: DECMate III development Message-ID: <199902170204.AA06285@world.std.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990216212442.009143a0@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly: >Machines that want to use the PC printer cables. These may only implement >enough lines to support a printer and not all the strange ones (that may >be used for mass-storage units), as explained above The Atari ST falls under this category. You can use a PC's printer cable, but the actual lines weren't reprogrammable (or accessable) like the PC's were, so parallel Zip drives and their ilk are not usable thru the built-in printer port on them. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 16 20:18:13 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports Message-ID: <199902170218.AA14719@world.std.com> from "Tony Duell" at Feb 16, 99 06:40:54 pm Message-ID: <199902170257.VAA16617@user2.infinet.com> > > It's a genuine Atari > > brand joystick, P/N CX-40, in the box, with manual, for a TRS-80 Model III. > > It has what appears to be a 40-pin edge connector on the end of the cable > > Are you sure it's 40 pin and not 50 pin? The are (AFAIK) no 40 pin > connectors on a Model 3 (unlike the model 1 that uses them for > everything). I counted twice. It's 40. > The most likely places to plug a joystick in would be the system bus (50 > pin) or the printer port (which has 8 input lines on it), which is 34 pin. Model 1: The manual says to plug it into the "front left output port, sometimes referred to as the "Screen Printer Port"", on Model 1's with an Expansion Interface. "For computers without an EI, plug the TRSSTICK on the port on the back of the keyboard, near the reset button." Model 3: "Firmly push the connector onto the large 50 pin bus located in the center of the bottom of the computer..." Apparently, this is a Model I, not Model III joystick. My mistake. Thanks, Tony, for bringing this up. The bulk of the manual is devoted to the Model III, so I didn't even notice that it had the wrong number of pins to fit. -ethan From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 16 22:31:36 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Before that, centronics ports tended to be the 36 pin amphenol connector. > But there were other printer port standards as well - like Data Products > that was used on some line printers. And of course serial printer ports > (RS232, current loop, etc). There were those 34-pin edge connectors on a number of Tandy systems, and the remarkably compatible header connectors on some others. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 16 22:40:33 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Before that, centronics ports tended to be the 36 pin amphenol connector. > > But there were other printer port standards as well - like Data Products > > that was used on some line printers. And of course serial printer ports > > (RS232, current loop, etc). > > There were those 34-pin edge connectors on a number of Tandy systems, > and the remarkably compatible header connectors on some others. Like the ones on the Morrow MD series? I think I still have a couple of Tandy cables that I picked up for use on the Morrows. - don > -- > Ward Griffiths > "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then > you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor > > From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 16 23:13:00 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed Inventor of the Internet: http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html I've heard that UCLA hosted Arpanet node #1 (I've also heard that BBN was supposed to host node #0, but their IMP didn't work), but I've never heard of Kleinrock.... -- Doug From marvin at rain.org Tue Feb 16 23:31:37 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? References: Message-ID: <36CA5439.6C77891C@rain.org> Doug wrote: > > I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I > found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed > Inventor of the Internet: > http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html > > I've heard that UCLA hosted Arpanet node #1 (I've also heard that BBN was > supposed to host node #0, but their IMP didn't work), but I've never heard > of Kleinrock.... According to what I've been told UCSB (University of California, Santa Barbara) hosted #4. Who were the other early hosts? From doug at blinkenlights.com Tue Feb 16 23:39:09 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: <36CA5439.6C77891C@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > According to what I've been told UCSB (University of California, Santa > Barbara) hosted #4. Who were the other early hosts? Node 0: BBN (non-functional?) Node 1: UCLA (30 August) Function: Network Measurement Center System,OS: SDS SIGMA 7, SEX Node 2: Stanford Research Institute (SRI) (1 October) Network Information Center (NIC) SDS940/Genie Doug Engelbart's project on "Augmentation of Human Intellect" Node 3: University of California Santa Barbara (UCSB) (1 November) Culler-Fried Interactive Mathematics IBM 360/75, OS/MVT Node 4: University of Utah (December) Graphics DEC PDP-10, Tenex See Hobbes' Internet Timeline for more info: http://info.isoc.org/guest/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html -- Doug From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 17 00:01:54 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: References: <36CA5439.6C77891C@rain.org> Message-ID: >See Hobbes' Internet Timeline for more info: > http://info.isoc.org/guest/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html > >-- Doug Doug, I hate to say it, but the second entry in the link you just posted is about Leonard Kleinrock, with the first being the USSR launching Sputnik. For some amusing writting by him you can see the following RFC linked by the above page http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1121.txt Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 17 00:09:12 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > http://info.isoc.org/guest/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html > > I hate to say it, but the second entry in the link you just posted is about > Leonard Kleinrock, with the first being the USSR launching Sputnik. I noticed it. I also noticed him mentioned in the brief history written by Vinton Cerf. But his name had been completely erased from my memory. "Leonard Kleinrock." It just doesn't stick. I'm sure I'll forget him again. > For some amusing writting by him you can see the following RFC linked by > the above page > http://info.internet.isi.edu:80/in-notes/rfc/files/rfc1121.txt Pretty good. There was actually quite a bit of poetry in the early RFC's. I'm sure the history of the internet will be one of the best documented histories, and probably the most fun to read :-) -- Doug From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 17 00:31:29 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Pretty good. There was actually quite a bit of poetry in the early RFC's. >I'm sure the history of the internet will be one of the best documented >histories, and probably the most fun to read :-) I found it really odd that there was a link to a poetry RFC, os I just had to check it out. There is definitly plenty of history out there, and as mass storage continutes to grow, it just might be largely preserved. I know I'm not in the habit of deleting anything, prefering to just throw more disk space at the problem :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Feb 17 00:33:47 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: 5151 monitor Message-ID: <199902170633.BAA24090@dgs.cs.unc.edu> Anybody out there want an IBM 5151 monitor? Not yet sure if it works; will test it soon. Cheers, Bill. From hhacker at gte.net Wed Feb 17 01:29:22 1999 From: hhacker at gte.net (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! Message-ID: <00be01be5a47$3db03ad0$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> This message constitutes spam, and will not be tolerated. YOU AND YOUR ORGANISATION ARE ORDERED TO IMMEDIATELY REMOVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS FROM YOUR LIST AND TO NEVER AGAIN SEND SUCH EMAIL MESSAGES TO ME, ON PAIN OF FEDERAL PROSECUTION!!! -----Original Message----- From: MobileCostCutter@Hotmail.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:27 PM Subject: Notice to all Mobile Phone Users! >Hi, > >You have been referred to us as someone that would benefit from >the following information. > >If you are a mobile phone user then you may be interested to >learn about the following. > > >___________________________________________________________ >"Don't pay more for your mobile phone than you have to" >___________________________________________________________ > > >We are an independent mobile phone consultancy based in >Hertfordshire that has been formed as a result of the increased >competition between the UK's four mobile phone networks. 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We will show you how you can take advantage of free local and >national calls day and night. > >6. We will show you how to achieve cheaper international calls. > >7. We will show you how to receive a discounted memorable mobile >number. > >8. We will show you how you can have two numbers running side by >side and pay just one line rental charge. > >______________________________ >This and a whole lot more! >______________________________ > >If you require more information regarding the above and what we >can offer you then please send an e.mail stating your name, >contact number, e.mail address, the network you are with and >length of time you have been with them to >MobileCostCutter@Hotmail.com. Alternatively, you can contact us >on 01438 234961 or send a fax to 0171 681-3495. > > >Please forward this e.mail to other mobile phone users you know. > >We look forward to hearing from you! > >Kindest Regards and Best Wishes. > > >Christopher Scott >Managing Director > > > > > > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 17 02:36:56 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I > found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed > Inventor of the Internet: > http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html He certainly has an interesting story for such a major contribution to computing since I've never heard of him either. Get this: "In this work, he developed the basic principles of packet switching, thus providing the fundamental underpinnings for that technology." As far as I know the concept of packet switching was first described by Paul Baran of the Rand Corporation (see a timeline at http://www.unc.edu/courses/jomc050/pioneers3.html. Interestingly enough the name "Kleinrock" does not show up anywhere in this list). But this guy certainly takes the liberty of practically taking full credit for single-handedly inventing the internet. How about this: "More recently, Kleinrock has taken the leading role in the new technology of Nomadic Computing and Communications; the idea is to create a technology that will support the nomadic user in his computing and communication needs as he travels from place to place." This has already been pioneered by Steven Roberts and his BEHEMOTH (see http://www.doitsports.com/biketour/tolman/nomad.htm). Does this dude have an original idea? This guy seems to like to take credit for stuff other people invented. I hate guys like that. Maybe this is a scam web site like that one that was posted last year about the one dude who purportedly single-handedly invented the personal computer and the GUI (didn't that guy also claim to have invented the internet?) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 17 02:40:33 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:12 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > See Hobbes' Internet Timeline for more info: > http://info.isoc.org/guest/zakon/Internet/History/HIT.html Whaddya know? Kleinrock is the second entry in this timeline: 1961 Leonard Kleinrock, MIT: "Information Flow in Large Communication Nets" (July) First paper on packet-switching (PS) theory I'd still like to know on what he bases his claim of having single-handedly invented the internet. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Feb 17 05:05:07 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: <36C8471A.B0A65D09@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <36CAA261.E7AAAEB1@bigfoot.com> Phil Clayton wrote: > Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. > Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. > Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or keyboard > and it tried to access drive A: That was $3.50 too much. > Wonder if this thing has any real value. Nope, as you've probably been told by now. > Anyone know how many of them were produced ?. Billions of those junkers. There was a Sanyo specific magazine out by Falsoft Publishuing near Louisville, KY some years ago called Soft Sector, that's what a terrific machine it was (YUK). Without a keyboard you are *screwed*. It uses a proprietary keyboard that has no ALT key. Real piece of crap (for lack of a better word in public). Maybe you got $3.50 worth with the floppy drive anyway. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Feb 17 05:08:26 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: <000a01be59c4$acbd45e0$eceecdcf@server> Message-ID: <36CAA328.50A9361F@bigfoot.com> The Sanyo had a composite port for video, you can use any mono compoite monitor, like a Commodore setup. If it has the add-on video board you can use a stock CGA monitor. I have a few here but some are spoken for. musicman38@mindspring.com wrote: > >Phil Clayton wrote: > >> > >> Purchased a Sanyo MBC 550 today at the local thrift for $3.50.. > >> Just the CPU, no monitor or Keyboard.. > >> Haven't really tested it yet, but I did power it up with no monitor or > keyboard > >> and it tried to access drive A: > >> Wonder if this thing has any real value. > >> Anyone know how many of them were produced ? > > > >I was over at the thrift store today, and saw a Sanyo MBC 555 and the > >monitor for $1.91 each; don't know if it had a keyboard or not. I have > >three of them here along with keyboards, and two monitors. > > Can you get me a monitor & keyboard ? > I goto the thrift stores all the time here in Fort Myers, FL > and have never seen one of these in all the piles of computers I rumage > through all the time. Must depend on where you live. > I guess I will box this thing up and add it to my ever increasing collection > of obsolite computers taking up more and more space in my garage. > And I thought I got a good buy at only $3.50.. !!! > Phil... From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Feb 17 05:15:59 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? References: Message-ID: <36CAA4ED.D862BFB0@bigfoot.com> It's accurate as far as my recollection goes back and Klienrock was a part of the team of ARPAnet.. Really though, all sorts of thing, to include FidoNet and the old BBS's made up what we have today, each with it's own unique contribution. The net is not the last I feel either, it's just more popular than the others and more commonplace. Doug wrote: > I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I > found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed > Inventor of the Internet: > http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html > > I've heard that UCLA hosted Arpanet node #1 (I've also heard that BBN was > supposed to host node #0, but their IMP didn't work), but I've never heard > of Kleinrock.... > > -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 17 05:52:01 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: <36CAA4ED.D862BFB0@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Russ Blakeman wrote: > It's accurate as far as my recollection goes back and Klienrock was a > part of the team of ARPAnet.. Really though, all sorts of thing, to > include FidoNet and the old BBS's made up what we have today, each with > it's own unique contribution. The net is not the last I feel either, > it's just more popular than the others and more commonplace. I don't think FidoNet or any BBS system contributed much to the net. There were (are?) some gateways, but none of the protocols or conventions that are/were used on the net had any origin in BBS's. For the most part, the net gods and the BBS gods were two non-overlapping subcultures, but they started to mix a bit in the mid 1980's. I constantly run into people who seem to think the internet started around 1994 or so. They become incredulous when I tell them I've been using the net since 1980, and that people were using it 10 years before me. -- Doug From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Feb 17 05:51:05 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? References: Message-ID: <36CAAD28.692F3F2@bigfoot.com> No but they were all steps in what makes the net what it is. Doug wrote: > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > It's accurate as far as my recollection goes back and Klienrock was a > > part of the team of ARPAnet.. Really though, all sorts of thing, to > > include FidoNet and the old BBS's made up what we have today, each with > > it's own unique contribution. The net is not the last I feel either, > > it's just more popular than the others and more commonplace. > > I don't think FidoNet or any BBS system contributed much to the net. > There were (are?) some gateways, but none of the protocols or conventions > that are/were used on the net had any origin in BBS's. > > For the most part, the net gods and the BBS gods were two non-overlapping > subcultures, but they started to mix a bit in the mid 1980's. > > I constantly run into people who seem to think the internet started around > 1994 or so. They become incredulous when I tell them I've been using the > net since 1980, and that people were using it 10 years before me. > > -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 17 06:29:38 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: <36CAAD28.692F3F2@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Russ Blakeman wrote: > No but they were all steps in what makes the net what it is. There was certainly user migration, and lots of content migration (mostly porn and micro software), but as far as the *structure* of the net goes, BBS's had virtually zero effect on making the net what it is. But FidoNet was pretty cool. It never had the potential to compete against a real-time net, but it enabled people to have their own simple store and forward network without having to run uucp on a Unix box. I never got into FidoNet, though. I was able to get my 286 box running Microport Unix and acting as multitasking Usenet leaf node in the mid-80's, and that seemed more interesting than FidoNet at the time. -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 17 09:52:18 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 and other junk In-Reply-To: <36C979EB.AC2FB1EE@mindspring.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990217095218.3a7f4c36@intellistar.net> > >BTW: >Last time I saw Joe at a Tampa HamFest he purchased A rather large pile of pure >junk, all rusty and covered with mildew. I personally would have passed on it, >but he was thrilled at the purchase (HaHa)!! Phil, That large pile of junk was a Tektronix 4051 and HP 9835A. Or at least that's what they originally were! So my Sanyo purchase for $3.50 can >never rival that one.. !! Well at least my pile of junk didn't cost any $$$. > > >"Rare" Sanyo MBC 550.. Yeah, right! Joe From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 17 08:15:57 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? Message-ID: <19990217141259914.AAA110@fuj03> It's somewhat divergent from the current topic, but it might interest some to know that the Honeywell '516 is the engine control computer which was still in use on the space shuttle at the time of the Challenger accident. There were two, one redundant, for each engine, of which I believe there were three. Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Who invented the internet? > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:36 AM > > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > > > I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I > > found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed > > Inventor of the Internet: > > http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html > > He certainly has an interesting story for such a major contribution to > computing since I've never heard of him either. > > Get this: > > "In this work, he developed the basic principles of packet switching, thus > providing the fundamental underpinnings for that technology." > > As far as I know the concept of packet switching was first described by > Paul Baran of the Rand Corporation (see a timeline at > http://www.unc.edu/courses/jomc050/pioneers3.html. Interestingly enough > the name "Kleinrock" does not show up anywhere in this list). > > But this guy certainly takes the liberty of practically taking full credit > for single-handedly inventing the internet. > > How about this: > > "More recently, Kleinrock has taken the leading role in the new technology > of Nomadic Computing and Communications; the idea is to create a > technology that will support the nomadic user in his computing and > communication needs as he travels from place to place." > > This has already been pioneered by Steven Roberts and his BEHEMOTH (see > http://www.doitsports.com/biketour/tolman/nomad.htm). > > Does this dude have an original idea? > > This guy seems to like to take credit for stuff other people invented. I > hate guys like that. Maybe this is a scam web site like that one that was > posted last year about the one dude who purportedly single-handedly > invented the personal computer and the GUI (didn't that guy also claim to > have invented the internet?) > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Wed Feb 17 08:29:06 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: M SoKit 68 Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E801139B49@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> I've never heard of the M(icro)SOKit 68, but I'm wondering how many other enterprising teachers designed their own small systems for training? I have a "U of T 6809" board, a teaching aid developed by the University of Toronto in the early 80s and manufactured for them by a Toronto company. At one time they were even advertised nationally in one of the Canadian hobby electronics magazines. It was a single-board system with a monitor/debugger in eprom, and you'd run it from a terminal. You could develop programs on-board, or download 6809 code from a host system and run it on the card. Does anyone else have one of these? Arlen Michaels On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Lawrence Walker" wrote: > In 1983 at the end of taking a digital tech course at a community > college > here in Toronto at George Brown CC, I spent about a month assembling and > debugging a trainer kit that my prof was marketing, similar but more > sophisticated than the Heathkit ET34400. It was called a M(icro)SOKit 68. > It was based , of course, like the ET3400 on the M6800 CPU. Does anyone > have > one of these out there ? It was geared to teach students about micros by > building their own micro. I know he sold a number of them, but don't know > how > many. I have the manual, parts #s, etc. if anyone is interested. Included > in > the manual is a couple of pages of layouts obviously meant to be > photocopied > and etched. > > ciao larry > lwalker@interlog.com > -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Feb 17 09:57:58 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Antique Unix Computers] Message-ID: <36CAE706.1E18@agora.rdrop.com> Forwarded from misc.forsale.computers.other.systems Replies to original poster, not to me or the list please. -jim -------------- next part -------------- Skipped content of type message/news From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Feb 17 12:48:13 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: <01BE5A7C.2A8004B0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Found this in another news group. Please reply to the original poster not this group... DIGI-COMP 1 FOR SALE My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel zuckier@aecom.yu.edu Steve Robertson - From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 17 12:53:43 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: <19990217141259914.AAA110@fuj03> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's somewhat divergent from the current topic, but it might interest some > to know that the Honeywell '516 is the engine control computer which was > still in use on the space shuttle at the time of the Challenger accident. > There were two, one redundant, for each engine, of which I believe there > were three. Do I sense a potential rescue mission somewhere off the coast of Florida? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 17 13:54:59 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: longevity of the internet (was Re: Who invented the internet?) In-Reply-To: <36CAA4ED.D862BFB0@bigfoot.com> (message from Russ Blakeman on Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:15:59 -0600) References: <36CAA4ED.D862BFB0@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <19990217195459.25436.qmail@brouhaha.com> Russ Blakeman wrote: > The net is not the last I feel either, it's just more popular > than the others and more commonplace. I believe that it probably *IS* the last, for a long time (but not forever). When Al Gore was still agressively promoting his Information Superhighway (officially called the NII, National Information Infrastructure), a bunch of people brought up the subject of whether the Internet would be "allowed" to operate over the NII. [*] To me, this seemed like an absurd question. It's like asking, "If there was a new service to send packages between cities for one tenth the cost of the current carriers, would people use that to send christmas presents?" Any publicly available and cost-effective means of transporting IP traffic *will* be used as part of the Internet. The Internet *will* be the last public data network because each new form of telecommunication will be absorbed into it (e.g., ISDN, Frame Relay, cable modems, ADSL, none of which were around when the Internet was invented). And new services are added to the Internet all the time. The World Wide Web is now one of the biggest uses of the Internet, and it hasn't been around that long. The only way I can see the Internet getting replaced by something else is if it finally hits a limit where it won't scale to provide a new service that is very much in demand. And I can't imagine what kind of service that would be. But that's the nature of innovation. Note that I'm not saying that the Internet 25 or 50 years from now will necessarily much resemble what we have now, except in a general sense. What I am saying, though, is that there won't be a conscious decision made at some point to "start over" with something different. Even the "Internet 2" is simply a high-speed Internet backbone that has tighter access control. But for all that, it is still part of the Internet, just as there are many other private backbones with access control (i.e., MCI/Worldcom won't carry packets on their backbone for customers of Joe's Internet Emporium, unless Joe's and MCI/W have a peering arrangement). I expect that this kind of analysis is what led Microsoft to their "Embrace and Extent" policy regarding Internet protocols, rather than their earlier position of pushing proprietary protocols. They figured out that the Internet isn't going away. Eric [*] NIST is developing new standards for the NII; apparently someone in the government didn't think TCP/IP was adequate [**]. Apparently they have a severe case of "IH" syndrome, as they did back when they tried to mandate use of the OSI protocols. Even if NIST does invent new protocols, and they are deployed in a new NII, almost the first use to which they are put will be to encapsulate TCP/IP traffic. [**] Or perhaps, as usual, they simply have too much money to throw around, and can't figure out a *useful* way to spend it. From charlesII at nwonline.net Wed Feb 17 14:04:29 1999 From: charlesII at nwonline.net (Charles Oblender) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses Message-ID: <36CB20CD.F069A875@nwonline.net> Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. Thanks CharlesII@nwohio.net From msg at computerpro.com Wed Feb 17 13:57:05 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? References: <19990217141259914.AAA110@fuj03> Message-ID: <36CB1F11.F4070B8B@computerpro.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It's somewhat divergent from the current topic, but it might interest some > to know that the Honeywell '516 is the engine control computer which was > still in use on the space shuttle at the time of the Challenger accident. > There were two, one redundant, for each engine, of which I believe there > were three. > > Dick My old friend Jack Gieryck (spelling may be mangled -- after all these years) left CDC Terminal Systems Div. (RSVL) to develop code on the '516 control computers about 1976; has anyone run into him? Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From msg at computerpro.com Wed Feb 17 14:10:19 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed References: <36BBB357.CBD3F2AC@computerpro.com> <36BF2DA2.8F74524E@pic-design.com> <36C9B18B.9CF7A364@computerpro.com> <36CADAE0.DE985E21@pic-design.com> Message-ID: <36CB222B.F1A7D803@computerpro.com> Greetings, PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts as follows: > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an order large enough to justify the minimum? Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 17 14:13:09 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: <6d562b09.36cb22d5@aol.com> In a message dated 2/17/99 11:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, steverob@hotoffice.com writes: << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel >> i'll be willing to bet one of my old computers that any of the ebay profit wouldnt goto charity... From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Wed Feb 17 14:31:11 1999 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE6B3@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Possibly, but I remember seeing an eBay auction last year that was structured in a similar way. Winning bid went to a cancel charity (I think...) -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:13 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: FWD from alt.folklore.computers In a message dated 2/17/99 11:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, steverob@hotoffice.com writes: << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel >> i'll be willing to bet one of my old computers that any of the ebay profit wouldnt goto charity... From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 17 14:20:58 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? Message-ID: <19990217203327589.AAA173@fuj03> Well, if you mean the rescue I think you mean, it's actually in the Indian Ocean. That's where the Challenger went down. The fuel tank and solids (booster rockets) went down near Florida, but the Challenger went down on the far side of Africa if memory serves me. I, along with others, had the job of analyzing the potential failure modes in the engine controller in the wake of the Challenger accident. It's quite an interesting device, considering it's made of really old and simple TTL logic with plated wire memory (faster, though not much, than core of that generation). It had no stack, and therefore a different way of "calling" a subroutine, requiring you to have your program store in read/write memory. This ultimately meant that flaws masked by the redundancy of the system could become "inherited" from one mission to the next. There were other pitfalls as well. Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Who invented the internet? > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:53 AM > > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's somewhat divergent from the current topic, but it might interest some > > to know that the Honeywell '516 is the engine control computer which was > > still in use on the space shuttle at the time of the Challenger accident. > > There were two, one redundant, for each engine, of which I believe there > > were three. > > Do I sense a potential rescue mission somewhere off the coast of Florida? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 17 14:44:33 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <36CB20CD.F069A875@nwonline.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Charles Oblender wrote: > Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and > computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. The first article I ever read on computer viruses was in the Los Angeles Times in 1986. In fact, I clipped and saved this article (and many others) and still have it in a file folder laying on a shelf in my bedroom closet. The author then accurately predicted the explosion of computer virus attacks. In 1986 I was just playing around with computer timebombs on the Apple ][ (one of my dumb friends actually used my program on an unsuspecting fellow computer class student and got reamed out pretty good by the teacher) but viruses were pretty scarce. A few years later and they started to become a major nuisance. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 17 14:45:51 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <36CB222B.F1A7D803@computerpro.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts > as follows: Are we talking about the same HP85 that's the size of an Apple ][? How would one wear that on a belt? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 17 16:56:37 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: References: <36CB222B.F1A7D803@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990217165637.31d72b92@intellistar.net> At 12:45 PM 2/17/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: > >> PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts >> as follows: > >Are we talking about the same HP85 that's the size of an Apple ][? Yes. How >would one wear that on a belt? You wouldn't. It's belts for the integral printer. Joe > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > > From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 17 15:14:04 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <36CB20CD.F069A875@nwonline.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Charles Oblender wrote: > Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and > computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. Well, the origin of the words themselves applying to computers is the novel _The Shockwave Rider_ by the late John Brunner. Highly recommended, though somewhat dated technically now (unavoidable in any writing about computers set decades in the future -- and this novel was published in 1975). Other than that, you might try digging through the web pages of some of the anti-virus product vendors. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Feb 17 15:09:25 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed Message-ID: <01BE5A8F.E4004A40.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:10 PM, Michael Grigoni [SMTP:msg@computerpro.com] wrote: > Greetings, > > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts > as follows: > > > > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock > > > They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an order > large enough to justify the minimum? > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum > Michael, Are those belts problematic? I have a real nice HP-85 here but, have never really used it. If the belts are likely to deterioriate or fail, I wouldn't mind having an extra set. BTW: If anyone has an extra set of manuals for a HP85, I could sure use them. Of course, I'm willing to pay a _fair_ price. Are there any good on-line resources for HP85 programming and operation? Steve Robertson - From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 17 15:19:10 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FWD from alt.folklore.computers In-Reply-To: <6d562b09.36cb22d5@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > steverob@hotoffice.com writes: > << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in > excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous "All the manuals"? There's the rather slender "Manual" and the assembly instructions. That's all that ever came with mine, long gone. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 17 12:33:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <36C979EB.AC2FB1EE@mindspring.com> from "Phil Clayton" at Feb 16, 99 09:00:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/f72fda00/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 17 12:36:46 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: <199902170218.AA14719@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 16, 99 09:18:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 552 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/6625fd74/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 17 12:38:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990216212442.009143a0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 16, 99 09:24:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 538 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/9bd8962d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 17 12:41:28 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports In-Reply-To: from "Ward D. Griffiths III" at Feb 16, 99 11:31:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 939 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/be4215d6/attachment.ksh From lgroebe at insidermarketing.com Wed Feb 17 15:21:58 1999 From: lgroebe at insidermarketing.com (Larry Groebe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: <19990217151053.9ade962fba0b11d2be700000e80dc880.in@insidermarketing.com> > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: >> steverob@hotoffice.com writes: >> << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in >> excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous > > "All the manuals"? There's the rather slender "Manual" and the > assembly instructions. That's all that ever came with mine, long gone. Maybe she bought the other manuals - there was a manual of detailed explanations of the various "experiments" (cost: $1), a "Digi-Comp Romps" booklet of games and clever tricks, and possibly another book of additional serious experiments. My Digicomp also came with a brochure for the other ESR products: Digi-comp 2, Dr. Nim, and Think-a-dot. --Larry Groebe (new! webpage for Digicomp fans: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/friendsofdigicomp) From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 17 15:30:04 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: from Sam Ismail at "Feb 17, 1999 12:44:33 pm" Message-ID: <199902172130.PAA25000@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Charles Oblender wrote: > > > Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and Well, I believe the first author to write about a Worm program was David Gerrold in 'When Harlie was One'. This is a science fiction book (Gerrold's first sale was an episode of a 1960's TV show called 'The Trouble with Tribbles'... the original Star Trek series, of course). Hmm, i see he has his own web site, www.gerrold.com If you can find a book that ACM produced about 10 years ago, "Computers Under Attack: Intruders, Worms, and Viruses" this would be a goldmine of information for your paper. This book is actually a collection of research papers by various authors. -Lawrence LeMay > > computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. > > The first article I ever read on computer viruses was in the Los Angeles > Times in 1986. In fact, I clipped and saved this article (and many > others) and still have it in a file folder laying on a shelf in my bedroom > closet. > > The author then accurately predicted the explosion of computer virus > attacks. In 1986 I was just playing around with computer timebombs on the > Apple ][ (one of my dumb friends actually used my program on an > unsuspecting fellow computer class student and got reamed out pretty good > by the teacher) but viruses were pretty scarce. A few years later and > they started to become a major nuisance. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > From Anthony.Eros at digital.com Wed Feb 17 15:45:08 1999 From: Anthony.Eros at digital.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Message-ID: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE6B4@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Make that a _cancer_ charity... -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Eros Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:31 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: FWD from alt.folklore.computers Possibly, but I remember seeing an eBay auction last year that was structured in a similar way. Winning bid went to a cancel charity (I think...) -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:13 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: FWD from alt.folklore.computers In a message dated 2/17/99 11:48:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, steverob@hotoffice.com writes: << My wife's aunt just cleaned out her closet and gave us a digi-comp 1 in excellent shape with all the manuals, box, etc. I see from previous discussion that this is a beloved object to many of you.Since I don't want to profit on her (pre)spring cleaning, I would be happy to ship the unit to the first person who would be willing to make a $500 donation to the charity of my choosing (for a 40% bracket, that is a $300 net expense).I will be happy to confirm contents and quality of the unit with _serious_ purchasers. Since this is a charitable donation, I will not go down on the price (if no buyers emerge by March 1st, it's off to ebay). It will be sold first come, first served basis.Please, no haggling, and I hope that we can find a nice home for this little red computer, while supporting a worthy charity as well. Best regards,Lionel >> i'll be willing to bet one of my old computers that any of the ebay profit wouldnt goto charity... From jlwest at tseinc.com Wed Feb 17 15:45:56 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Looking for two BC08-J cables Message-ID: <007601be5abe$e6b10700$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> Would anyone happen to have two BC08-J cables lying around? I'm in need :) Thanks! Jay West From hhacker at gte.net Wed Feb 17 16:15:46 1999 From: hhacker at gte.net (Buck Savage) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses Message-ID: <017301be5ac3$11d1d780$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> Friends: First, let me apologise for the anti-spam message I sent to this group. I did not properly check the destination address before sending, and it was inadvertent. Second, about computer viruses. Sam Ismail said that he had an article from the LA Times dated in 1986. I would love to see the article. Ward D. Griffiths III noted the value of the idea as described in the book by John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider. It is an excellent book but, the worm (or virus) issue is ancillary to the plot of the book. Still, in my paper, Apple Worm (published in the November 1986 issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazine - as the cover story), I make reference to the book. In this paper, Apple Worm, I provide a detailed design of a virus program which would operate upon Apple II computers, via the Hello program mechanism. As far as I know, it is the first such exposition of the techniques of computer virus writing ever published, though I am aware of some descriptions of the idea as far back as 1972. This earliest description is published in the journal Software: Practice and Experience. There is another early publication of this nature in the journal Communications of the ACM, written by Schoch, et al. I do not remember the date of the article but, I do have a copy. I will do the necessary research and report the information, if no other person bets me to the punch. It is very likely that my paper, Apple Worm (written together with the late James R. Hauser, a former professor of mine at the California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo), is a major influence upon the proliferation of computer viruses at that time. :) As far as I know, the Brunner text is the first mention of the concept of a computer virus in the literature, as the paper in Software: Practice and Experience mention only the game DARWIN, as played at the AT&T Bell Labs. Interestingly, DARWIN is the source of motivation for A. K. Dewdney's construction of the game Core War. William R. Buckley -----Original Message----- From: Ward D. Griffiths III To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:06 PM Subject: Re: question about viruses >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Charles Oblender wrote: > >> Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and >> computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. > >Well, the origin of the words themselves applying to computers is the >novel _The Shockwave Rider_ by the late John Brunner. Highly >recommended, though somewhat dated technically now (unavoidable in any >writing about computers set decades in the future -- and this novel >was published in 1975). > >Other than that, you might try digging through the web pages of some >of the anti-virus product vendors. >-- >Ward Griffiths >"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor > From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 17 16:48:34 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: <19990217203327589.AAA173@fuj03> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well, if you mean the rescue I think you mean, it's actually in the Indian > Ocean. That's where the Challenger went down. The fuel tank and solids > (booster rockets) went down near Florida, but the Challenger went down on > the far side of Africa if memory serves me. The Challenger was nowhere near suborbital when the explosion took place. Everything landed off the coast of Florida. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 17 18:53:14 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990217185314.305f1cc0@intellistar.net> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. Anyone got one to spare? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 17 18:58:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Anyone have any docs or software for a HP 125 CPM computer? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990217185815.2ee7abac@intellistar.net> I just got a HP 125 today. Does anyone have anything for it? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 17 19:02:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: FSOT: Apple IIc+ Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990217190252.479fd93e@intellistar.net> I have a good working Apple IIC Plus with the Apple monochrome monitor and an Apple 5 1/4" external disk drive that I don't need. I'll take offers for it in either cash or trade. If I don't get any fair offers, it's off to E-OverPay. I'm interested in S-100 stuff, NorthStar OS software, and/or HP computers or calculators. Joe From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Feb 17 15:50:55 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Looking for two BC08-J cables Message-ID: <009601be5ac8$0c3e2170$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> I probably do but where are they used. I don't keep my cables sorted by part #. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jay West To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 4:53 PM Subject: Looking for two BC08-J cables >Would anyone happen to have two BC08-J cables lying around? > >I'm in need :) > >Thanks! > >Jay West > From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 17 17:09:42 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <017301be5ac3$11d1d780$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> Message-ID: Here's a blurb from SciAm that traces computer viruses back to 1949: http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/computers/computers9.html -- Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 17 17:12:42 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Looking for two BC08-J cables In-Reply-To: <009601be5ac8$0c3e2170$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Feb 17, 99 04:50:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 289 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/6f785183/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 17 17:29:59 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: from Doug at "Feb 17, 1999 06:09:42 pm" Message-ID: <199902172329.RAA25192@thorin.cs.umn.edu> You should add a section to your research paper, discussing virus hoaxes too. Sometimes these seem almost as dangerous as real viruses. Check out this URL, though there are many more examples out there: http://www.canadacomputes.com/tc/Apr97/F-HOAX.html -Lawrence LeMay From charlesII at nwonline.net Wed Feb 17 17:39:29 1999 From: charlesII at nwonline.net (Charles Oblender) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses References: Message-ID: <36CB5331.54292A88@nwonline.net> Could you send me copies of these news articles? From what I found so far computer viruses were around longer than that. I am also interested in "worm" programs which act differently than a virus since a worm usually doesn't destroy the system and reproduces it on its own. Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Charles Oblender wrote: > > > Could any one point me to a source for the history of viruses and > > computer worms. I'm doing a recearch paper and I'm looking for sources. > > The first article I ever read on computer viruses was in the Los Angeles > Times in 1986. In fact, I clipped and saved this article (and many > others) and still have it in a file folder laying on a shelf in my bedroom > closet. > > The author then accurately predicted the explosion of computer virus > attacks. In 1986 I was just playing around with computer timebombs on the > Apple ][ (one of my dumb friends actually used my program on an > unsuspecting fellow computer class student and got reamed out pretty good > by the teacher) but viruses were pretty scarce. A few years later and > they started to become a major nuisance. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From ss at allegro.com Wed Feb 17 18:03:43 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Anyone have any docs or software for a HP 125 CPM computer? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990217185815.2ee7abac@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902180003.QAA40975@bart.allegro.com> Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:58:15 -0800 Subject: Anyone have any docs or software for a HP 125 CPM computer? From: rigdonj@intellistar.net To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > I just got a HP 125 today. Does anyone have anything for it? Congrats!  I had one at home for awhile, but had to return it to HP when I left their employment in 1983. Carrying it back to HP gave me a hernia (really!). I'll keep an eye out for the docs. I'm looking for an HP 125 and the later, smaller, HP 120. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 17 18:04:33 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <36CB222B.F1A7D803@computerpro.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: Count me in for a couple pair, Michael. - don > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts > as follows: > > > > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock > > > They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an order > large enough to justify the minimum? > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum > From spc at armigeron.com Wed Feb 17 18:21:30 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <017301be5ac3$11d1d780$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> from "Buck Savage" at Feb 17, 99 02:15:46 pm Message-ID: <199902180021.TAA06635@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1797 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990217/80fc9f3e/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 17 18:47:56 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? Message-ID: <19990218004522793.AAA213@fuj03> I guess we'll have to see what information is available on the net about that January 1986 event. I do seem to recall that the flight was about 2 minutes 10+ seconds underway when the ship hit the fan, so to speak. The entire trip into orbit only required about 8.5 minutes, so they were a fair piece of the way along. My recollection is that they were searching off Florida for the boosters, but in the Indian Ocean to recover the shuttle and the bodies. There was a lot of talk about the 8 minutes or so that it took for the shuttle to hit the water after things went bad. I could be mistaken, of course. It wouldn't be the first time . . . Dick ---------- > From: Ward D. Griffiths III > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Who invented the internet? > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 3:48 PM > > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Well, if you mean the rescue I think you mean, it's actually in the Indian > > Ocean. That's where the Challenger went down. The fuel tank and solids > > (booster rockets) went down near Florida, but the Challenger went down on > > the far side of Africa if memory serves me. > > The Challenger was nowhere near suborbital when the explosion took > place. Everything landed off the coast of Florida. > -- > Ward Griffiths > "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then > you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 17 18:56:04 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: Floppy/Parallel Ports Message-ID: <3.0.16.19990217140610.4a173b9e@ricochet.net> At 12:39 AM 2/17/99 +0000, you wrote: >> Seeing as he said 'the parallel port' I would assume he meant _THE_ >> parallel port as in 'the D-25 female connector with the pinout that was > >In which case you're restricting it to PCs and clones only I would think. Okay, I'll try to be more clear... 8^) (And yes, I know "early" is the 50's around here. 8^) What I'm researching is computers that used the Centronics parallel port to access a floppy drive or other storage device. Mostly interested in PC's and compatibles, or computers that use a "PC-compatible" centronics port (like the Atari ST). It needs to be controlled by software only (no A/B/PRT switch like some Toshibas) and ideally needs no re-configuration before switching between drive and printer (or better still, offers a pass-through for the printer.) HP-IB/GPIB/IEEE-488 is interesting, and somewhat related, but not entirely relevant; same for SASI & SCSI. Also, anything after 1990 or so is too new. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 17 19:18:38 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180021.TAA06635@armigeron.com> from "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" at "Feb 17, 1999 07:21:30 pm" Message-ID: <199902180118.TAA25295@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > It depends upon when it was first published: I believe the date for ``The > Shockwave Rider'' is 1975. Another book, ``The Adolensence of P1'' may have > been eariler (I want to say 1972, but it may be as late as '74 or '75). > ``P1'' was about a self-aware computer program that spread throughout IBM > mainframes and while it didn't use the term ``worm'' it's propagation is > that of a worm. > > ``When Harley was One'' is just about a sentient computer in a single > location (I believe, it's been awhile since I read that one, and even then, > I read ``When Harley was One, 2.0.'') and has nothing to do with viruses or > worms. > > -spc (Okay, so I've read up on some of this stuff 8-) > Hmm, maybe it was The Adolescence of P1, because your description of it is what i was thinking of what i mentioned When Harlie was One.. Harlie was first published in 1972. Hmm. Maybe I can find a copy in my paperback collection... -Lawrence LeMay From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 17 19:26:57 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:13 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: > > > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 Calculator belts > > as follows: > > Are we talking about the same HP85 that's the size of an Apple ][? How > would one wear that on a belt? Much more comfortable if you wear galluses also. - don > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > > From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 17 19:40:56 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Challenger Disaster (was Re: Who invented the internet?) In-Reply-To: <19990218004522793.AAA213@fuj03> (edick@idcomm.com) References: <19990218004522793.AAA213@fuj03> Message-ID: <19990218014056.27541.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I guess we'll have to see what information is available on the net about > that January 1986 event. I do seem to recall that the flight was about 2 > minutes 10+ seconds underway when the ship hit the fan, so to speak. The > entire trip into orbit only required about 8.5 minutes, so they were a fair > piece of the way along. Orbit: Altitude: 150nm (planned) Inclination: 28.5 degrees (planned) Orbits: 0 Duration: 01 min 13 seconds Distance: 18 miles Source: http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/mission-51-l.html From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 17 19:41:16 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180118.TAA25295@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "Feb 17, 1999 07:18:38 pm" Message-ID: <199902180141.TAA25310@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > > > It depends upon when it was first published: I believe the date for ``The > > Shockwave Rider'' is 1975. Another book, ``The Adolensence of P1'' may have > > been eariler (I want to say 1972, but it may be as late as '74 or '75). > > ``P1'' was about a self-aware computer program that spread throughout IBM > > mainframes and while it didn't use the term ``worm'' it's propagation is > > that of a worm. > > > > ``When Harley was One'' is just about a sentient computer in a single > > location (I believe, it's been awhile since I read that one, and even then, > > I read ``When Harley was One, 2.0.'') and has nothing to do with viruses or > > worms. > > > > -spc (Okay, so I've read up on some of this stuff 8-) > > > > Hmm, maybe it was The Adolescence of P1, because your description of it > is what i was thinking of what i mentioned When Harlie was One.. Harlie > was first published in 1972. > > Hmm. Maybe I can find a copy in my paperback collection... > Yes, I've found When Harlie was One version 2.0, and The Adolescence of P1. Its The Adolescence of P1 that deals with a worm program that escapes and learns and grows, etc. It was published much later, in 1977. -Lawrence LeMay From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 17 19:43:42 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990217185314.305f1cc0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. > Anyone got one to spare? You could replace it with almost any MFM unit that has 6 heads, Joe. Even a 3.5" one like the ST-138. - don From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 17 19:44:27 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Remark and Sextant Message-ID: <4.1.19990217204054.00a0fb90@206.231.8.2> Hey folks, Here's some Heath User Group magazines and a third-party Heath computer publication. They cover the H8, H89/Z90, H/Z100 and some H/Z150 series machines. If interested give him a shout. --Chris >Priority: normal >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) >Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:10:01 -0800 >Reply-To: "Kennan H. Hollingsworth" >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List >From: "Kennan H. Hollingsworth" >Subject: Remark and Sextant >To: HEATH@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > >I have many REMARK magazines from years past that I have >saved and no longer can find room for. Anyone interested? If so, >respond and I will list what issues I have. Would prefer to get rid of >them all at once. > >Also have a large number of SEXTANT magazines. Again, if >interested I will list them. >Ken Hollingsworth > >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- >To subscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: subscribe HEATH yourfirstname yourlastname >To unsubscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov >and in body: signoff HEATH >Archives for HEATH: http://www.tempe.gov/archives >--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Wed Feb 17 19:48:03 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Getting OT:Re: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180141.TAA25310@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Who wrote the book "The adolesonce(?) of P1?" ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > > It depends upon when it was first published: I believe the date for ``The > > > Shockwave Rider'' is 1975. Another book, ``The Adolensence of P1'' may have > > > been eariler (I want to say 1972, but it may be as late as '74 or '75). > > > ``P1'' was about a self-aware computer program that spread throughout IBM > > > mainframes and while it didn't use the term ``worm'' it's propagation is > > > that of a worm. > > > > > > ``When Harley was One'' is just about a sentient computer in a single > > > location (I believe, it's been awhile since I read that one, and even then, > > > I read ``When Harley was One, 2.0.'') and has nothing to do with viruses or > > > worms. > > > > > > -spc (Okay, so I've read up on some of this stuff 8-) > > > > > > > Hmm, maybe it was The Adolescence of P1, because your description of it > > is what i was thinking of what i mentioned When Harlie was One.. Harlie > > was first published in 1972. > > > > Hmm. Maybe I can find a copy in my paperback collection... > > > > Yes, I've found When Harlie was One version 2.0, and The Adolescence of P1. > Its The Adolescence of P1 that deals with a worm program that escapes and > learns and grows, etc. It was published much later, in 1977. > > -Lawrence LeMay > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Feb 17 20:15:46 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Getting OT:Re: question about viruses In-Reply-To: from George Rachor at "Feb 17, 1999 05:48:03 pm" Message-ID: <199902180215.UAA25320@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > Who wrote the book "The adolesonce(?) of P1?" > Thomas J. Ryan. -Lawrence LeMay From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Feb 17 20:01:47 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Looking for two BC08-J cables Message-ID: <013b01be5ae6$31e4aac0$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> Sorry I don't have any paper tapes here so I know I don't have the cable. Most later DEC cables I probably have however. Dan >BC08-J > >> >> I probably do but where are they used. I don't keep my cables sorted by >> part #. > >They're the cables that link a PC05 paper tape punch to a PC11 interface >card (or at least that's what Jay wants them for). 40 pin Berg on one >end, 36 pin PCB on the other. > >> Dan > >-tony > From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 17 20:39:56 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Call A.P.P.L.E. Message-ID: <199902180239.SAA09260@saul9.u.washington.edu> I couldn't send e-mail to you. > book. Still, in my paper, Apple Worm (published in the November > 1986 issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazine - as the cover story), I > make reference to the book. That's a name I haven't heard in a while. What was your involvement with A.P.P.L.E.? I grew up with the Apple ][. (I mostly played games, although I wrote a few interesting programs which I may still have.) I've lived in Seattle for the past 16 years, and my family belonged to A.P.P.L.E. We didn't go to many meetings. I was the main computer user in the family, but I was much too young to drive; my mom was almost totally uninterested in computers at the time, and my dad was only slightly interested. (Admittedly, I still can't drive, because my vision is not good enough, but I think you see what I mean. And I only got one good game out of my parents, which I let them sell -- see below.) Still, at one time we had a stack of magazines, a lowercase chip for our Apple ][+, something else (came in a plastic bag with a white manual, like the lowercase chip, except the title was in yellow instead of orange... maybe related to accounting? I don't remember), The Graphics Magician (?) and its companion program, The Mummy's Curse, and assorted public-domain disks. This was all from A.P.P.L.E. I'm not nearly as Apple-centric as I used to be (for example, I now appreciate the design of the Atari and Commodore, which I basically sneered at when I was younger; and I'm experienced enough to understand the ]['s flaws). But I still feel fond about my Apples. The access to machine language is still a strong point, the disk system has an admirable design, and some of the software produced for the ][ still amazes me. And we sold the software we had and now I'm looking for some replacement items. :( -- Derek From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 17 20:43:38 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses Message-ID: <199902180243.AA25217@world.std.com> Wow, UPS delivered 3 hrs ago and I'm still trying to dig myself out of the pile. You gotta love those 145lb UPS deliveries. My Thinker Toys S100 homebrew system came in with several little supprises. The basic system is a Wunderbuss with 2 8" Shugarts, 2 exetron Stringy Drives (with 30 cartridges), and 13 s100 cards, 1 wirewrap, and one card that's a I don't know what... Pictures and restoration log publishing pending. Some of the cooler docs include Intel MSC-4 Micro Computer Set Users Manual Jan 1972 Rev. 1 ;) !!! "" Sept 1974 Rev. 5 Intel MSC-8 8008 8-bit Parallel Central Processor Unit Users Manual March 1973 Rev. 3 Processor Technology Extended Cassette BASIC Users Manual Jan 1978 Gotta go, I hear the siren song. More later - Mike: dogas@leading.net From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 17 21:09:04 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? Message-ID: <199902180309.AA22695@world.std.com> err.... mcs-4, mcs-8, of course... I am Dyslexia of Borg, fusistance is retile. Your ass will be laminated. ;) - Mike: dogas@leading.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Feb 17 21:33:07 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990217185314.305f1cc0@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 17, 1999 06:53:14 PM Message-ID: <199902180333.UAA01110@calico.litterbox.com> I have an ST-4053, if that would work. > > I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. > Anyone got one to spare? > > Joe > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 17 22:11:18 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180118.TAA25295@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: The Adolescensce of P-1; by Thomas J. Ryan (c)1977 Collier Books NY. ISBN:0-02-024880-6 (pbk) When Harlie Was One; by David Gerrold (c) 1972 Ballantine Books NY. SBN:345-02885-6-125 "Parts appeared as short stories in Galaxy magazine 1969, ..." My copy of Shockwave Rider is missing. AGAIN. PLEASE don't make me go into the back room to look for it. PLEASE. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > It depends upon when it was first published: I believe the date for ``The > > Shockwave Rider'' is 1975. Another book, ``The Adolensence of P1'' may have > > been eariler (I want to say 1972, but it may be as late as '74 or '75). > > ``P1'' was about a self-aware computer program that spread throughout IBM > > mainframes and while it didn't use the term ``worm'' it's propagation is > > that of a worm. > > > > ``When Harley was One'' is just about a sentient computer in a single > > location (I believe, it's been awhile since I read that one, and even then, > > I read ``When Harley was One, 2.0.'') and has nothing to do with viruses or > > worms. > > > > -spc (Okay, so I've read up on some of this stuff 8-) > > > > Hmm, maybe it was The Adolescence of P1, because your description of it > is what i was thinking of what i mentioned When Harlie was One.. Harlie > was first published in 1972. > > Hmm. Maybe I can find a copy in my paperback collection... > > -Lawrence LeMay From msg at computerpro.com Wed Feb 17 22:06:56 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed References: <5518FE2C95E6D111B1A500104B72113B0AE6B2@alfexc8.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: <36CB91E0.FF5764A7@computerpro.com> Thanks to all for your responses so far. We now have enough interest to place an order for eleven sets of belts. I'll wait another few days to collect any other responses to get a final count. > Greetings, > > PIC has quoted price and availability for the two HP-85 > Calculator > belts > as follows: > > > EPS0175A125N $1.71/ea Stock > > > > > > EPS0080A250N $2.33/ea Stock > > They have a $50.00 minimum order. Who all wants to join in an > order > large enough to justify the minimum? > Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 17 22:49:21 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) In-Reply-To: <199902180309.AA22695@world.std.com> (allisonp@world.std.com) References: <199902180309.AA22695@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990218044921.28267.qmail@brouhaha.com> Allison wrote: > FYI the speed attained at > that point is some 3600mph far from orbital velocity. I'm not sure how to parse that. Are you saying that it was traveling at 3600 MPH, which is far from orbital velocity (i.e., a missing comma), or that it was travelling at 3600 MPH less than orbital velocity? (In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) The NASA reference I posted earlier claims: At this point in its trajectory, while traveling at a Mach number of 1.92 at an altitude of 46,000 feet, the Challenger was totally enveloped in the explosive burn. The best information I have suggests that the Space Shuttle does not use the Honeywell DDP-516 in any capacity, and that engine control is performed by the some of the IOP processors that are part of the IBM AP-101S computers. The entire AP-101S, including both the GPC and IOP, occupies about 0.025 cubic meters, masses about 30 Kg, and consumes about 550 W. A DDP-516 occupies about 2.5 cubic meters, masses about 250 Kg, and consumes over 1000 W. The AP-101S replaced an earlier AP-101B computer that was twice the size. Anybody know where I can find one for my collection? :-) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 17 23:16:51 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180021.TAA06635@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It depends upon when it was first published: I believe the date for ``The > Shockwave Rider'' is 1975. Another book, ``The Adolensence of P1'' may have > been eariler (I want to say 1972, but it may be as late as '74 or '75). > ``P1'' was about a self-aware computer program that spread throughout IBM > mainframes and while it didn't use the term ``worm'' it's propagation is > that of a worm. _Adolesence of P1_ was mid-70s. I just got another copy at a thrift store. Is it any good? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Feb 17 23:22:00 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) References: <199902180309.AA22695@world.std.com> <19990218044921.28267.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <36CBA378.2152578A@idirect.com> >Eric Smith wrote: > Allison wrote: > > FYI the speed attained at > > that point is some 3600mph far from orbital velocity. > > I'm not sure how to parse that. Are you saying that it was traveling at > 3600 MPH, which is far from orbital velocity (i.e., a missing comma), or > that it was travelling at 3600 MPH less than orbital velocity? > > (In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is > a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) Jerome Fine replies: If Allison was able to see the screen while she was sending that reply, then the "missing" comma is not the only thing that Eric Smith seems to be missing. I can still remember that day in a far more vivid manner than I care to recall how I felt and how sad the whole of the US was in regard to the fatalities. A neighbour who lost a part of her life in that tragedy is more than sufficient justification to drop a comma, let alone be reason enough to use velocity as opposed to speed. So Eric Smith is technically correct. But, in my humble opinion, it is he, not Allison who is missing something!! > The NASA reference I posted earlier claims: > At this point in its trajectory, while traveling at a Mach number > of 1.92 at an altitude of 46,000 feet, the Challenger was totally > enveloped in the explosive burn. > > The best information I have suggests that the Space Shuttle does not > use the Honeywell DDP-516 in any capacity, and that engine control is performed > by the some of the IOP processors that are part of the IBM AP-101S > computers. The entire AP-101S, including both the GPC and IOP, occupies > about 0.025 cubic meters, masses about 30 Kg, and consumes about 550 W. > A DDP-516 occupies about 2.5 cubic meters, masses about 250 Kg, and consumes > over 1000 W. > > The AP-101S replaced an earlier AP-101B computer that was twice the size. > Anybody know where I can find one for my collection? :-) I suggest that you wait for an appropriate time and do not link the AP-101S to the Shuttle program for a while. Please give Allison some time to heal those scars which will never disappear. Allison, please accept this apology from the rest of the group, as well as from Eric Smith (I would hope) for any insensitive treatment of you remarks. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Feb 17 23:35:59 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199902180533.XAA17061@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:13:00 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Doug To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Who invented the internet? Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > I was searching the web for a picture of a Honeywell IMP (DDP-516), and I > found one sitting on the home page of Leonard Kleinrock, self-proclaimed > Inventor of the Internet: > http://millennium.cs.ucla.edu/LK/Inet/birth.html > > I've heard that UCLA hosted Arpanet node #1 (I've also heard that BBN was > supposed to host node #0, but their IMP didn't work), but I've never heard > of Kleinrock.... > > -- Doug Kleinrock was part of the ARPA group that gave birth to ARPANet. I'm a little fuzzy right now (it's getting late) but it was either Kleinrock or JC Licklider who came up with the idea of packet switching. I suggest getting a copy of "Nerds 2.0.1" by Steve Segaller. It's a fairly detailed history of the net, and is the written companion to the PBS series of the same name. Quite interesting to read about those guys. The things they envisioned and wrote about in the '60's are just starting to happen in the last couple of years. It's absolutely scary what was going on in the minds of the ARPA scientists as well as the team from PARC (some guys ended up working for both). And the most amazing thing about the ARPA guys is that in their minds, the internet was a done deal from the start. They knew it would work -- they just needed to work out a few hardware details to make it happen. Makes you feel somewhat inadequate at times....... Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 17 23:37:44 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Feb 17, 99 09:16:51 pm Message-ID: <199902180537.VAA27986@saul1.u.washington.edu> > _Adolesence of P1_ was mid-70s. I just got another copy at a thrift > store. Is it any good? I haven't read most of it. But if you want to learn about: a) how OS/360 works, and b) how little computer power you really need for an artificially- intelligent program (*smirk*), this is the book for you. I'm being a bit unfair to this author -- most people seem to underestimate the amount of computational power it takes to achieve any sort of AI. I bet the communications set-up in the book would also be unsuitable for an AI. Besides, the IBM System/360 line has a curious but repulsive fascination for me, so I'm biased. The story doesn't lack excitement. I think it's safe to say that much. Anyway, you should probably read it yourself! (Isn't that the sort of thing you normally say, Sam?) -- Derek From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Feb 17 23:59:08 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Kleinrock Message-ID: <199902180556.XAA17250@garcon.laidbak.com> I just went to Len's homepage, and from what I can tell, based on the research and reading that I've done, the story as put forth in his bio is accurate. Licklider had forseen a worldwide (actually, galactic) network where information was accessible to anyone, anywhere. Kleinrock did describe how packet switching would work in his dissertation. Plus, the UCLA team was under his command. ARPA was under Bob Taylor (later to run PARC), but Taylor's job was to assemble the people to make it happen, and Kleinrock was one of them. If you get a chance to see the PBS series, Kleinrock is interviewed several times. You probably don't know his name because most of the guys from ARPA and PARC are unknowns. They are responsible for inventing most of today's computer technology, but other guys were much better at exploiting their inventions and assuming credit for them (not to mention anybill's name.....) Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 18 00:41:00 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) In-Reply-To: <36CBA378.2152578A@idirect.com> (message from Jerome Fine on Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:22:00 -0500) References: <199902180309.AA22695@world.std.com> <19990218044921.28267.qmail@brouhaha.com> <36CBA378.2152578A@idirect.com> Message-ID: <19990218064100.28655.qmail@brouhaha.com> > So Eric Smith is technically correct. But, in my humble > opinion, it is he, not Allison who is missing something!! > > Allison, please accept this apology from the rest of the group, as well as > from Eric Smith (I would hope) for any insensitive treatment of you remarks. I did not intend any disrespect to anyone, and apologize if any offense was given. I, too, was shocked and appalled by the disaster. (And at the incredible stupidity that caused the disaster, but that's another story.) I am reminded of the disaster twice every day when I drive past Onizuka Air Force Base. However, I invite Jerome to explain it to me off the list exactly what I am "missing". > I suggest that you wait for an appropriate time and do not link the AP-101S > to the Shuttle program for a while. I suggest that this is going way overboard. Maybe I was an asshole for asking about the comma (which I intended only as a real question to find out precisely what Allison meant). Maybe I was an asshole for mentioning that velocity != speed. I'll gladly to apologize for both of those statements, even though I intended no offense or disrespect. But AFAIK there is no other context in which to discuss the AP-101S, and it is on-charter for this mailing list since it is a computer that is more than ten years old. If a mere mention of an AP-101B or AP-101S is enough to give offense, I am *NOT* going to aplogize for that, and if 13 years isn't an appropriate length of time, I doubt that a human lifetime is either. Anyone offended by mere mention of the AP-101B, AP-101S, DDP-516, Space Shuttle, or any other object or concept I happen to mention on this list are hereby invited to add my email address to their kill files. Eric From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 18 01:31:22 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > Here's a blurb from SciAm that traces computer viruses back to 1949: > http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/computers/computers9.html Ah yes, this article references Fred Cohen, who is the guy who's article I first read about viruses back in 1986. He based his Ph.D. thesis on computer viruses and developed a "rigourous mathematical definition" to describe them. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From lundo at interport.net Thu Feb 18 03:20:03 1999 From: lundo at interport.net (Robert Lund) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? Message-ID: <9902189193.AA919329229@mail.postperfect.com> Doug wrote: > I've heard that UCLA hosted Arpanet node #1 (I've also heard that BBN was > supposed to host node #0, but their IMP didn't work), but I've never heard > of Kleinrock.... There's a very entertaining and informative article by "Mr. Protocol" in SunExpert magazine Feb 98 entitled "Mr. Protocol Looks Back" at . Well worth reading, all about early Internet history and the machines in play. (Check out the rest of Mr. P's archives at the parent link[s]!). -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Robert Lund | "So many good ones, and so many bad ones; + + lundo@interport.net | that's what you get for trying." + + New York City | Dutch Schultz, last words + +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From dogas at leading.net Thu Feb 18 06:37:07 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses Message-ID: <01be5b3b$65657aa0$d3c962cf@devlaptop> Speaking of _Adikesence of P1_ .... Does anyone know the SciAm issue date for the referenced matchbook neural net ??? Thanks - Mike: Dogas@leading.net -----Original Message----- From: Derek Peschel To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 1:10 AM Subject: Re: question about viruses >> _Adolesence of P1_ was mid-70s. I just got another copy at a thrift >> store. Is it any good? > >I haven't read most of it. But if you want to learn about: a) how OS/360 >works, and b) how little computer power you really need for an artificially- >intelligent program (*smirk*), this is the book for you. From enigma at sevensages.org Thu Feb 18 07:09:33 1999 From: enigma at sevensages.org (J.S.H.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Old CDC/Magnetic Peripheral Drive on DPS6 References: <199902180802.AAA00660@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36CC110D.FF4B69DD@sevensages.org> I have this weird drive on an old mini (Honeywell DPS6). These things have an internal fixed disk, plus, you have to put in a disk pack in them also. Well, on one of my drives, the belt that runs between the drive spindle and the motor broke. Where can I find a replacement? Manufacturer: Magnetic Peripheral Equip ID# BJ7D3-A Part # 77708003 Series Code 01 Another thing, I think the drive might be refurbished or something. On the serial number on one of them, atleast (the working drive) it has a hand-written "R" after the number. Anybody who can help me, please do. In fact, if you can help me with anything about the DPS6 or with GCOS6, I will be forever thankful. From what I've heard, GCOS6 is sort of a GCOS/Unix hybrid. Should be interesting. Also, if by chance, you know of an old Unix variant that would run on this baby, that could be nice too. I think having an old 7th edition Unix system would be nice. However, I think having GCOS6 would be really nice, too. Regards, J.S. Havard Head Geek The Seven Sages Project Regards, J.S. Havard - ----=(enigma@intop.net)=---------------------------------------------- This message was sponsored in part by John Havard. Copywrong (c) 1998 by John Havard under the terms and conditions of no sort of public license. All prices subject to change. Void where prohibited. Tax, title, and license fees not included. All rights reserved. ------------------------=(www.intop.net/~enigma/)=-------------------- From pechter at pechter.nws.net Thu Feb 18 07:32:39 1999 From: pechter at pechter.nws.net (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Old CDC/Magnetic Peripheral Drive on DPS6 In-Reply-To: <36CC110D.FF4B69DD@sevensages.org> from "J.S.H." at "Feb 18, 1999 7: 9:33 am" Message-ID: <199902181332.IAA03687@pechter.nws.net> > I have this weird drive on an old mini (Honeywell DPS6). These things > have an internal fixed disk, plus, you have to put in a disk pack in > them also. Well, on one of my drives, the belt that runs between the > drive spindle and the motor broke. Where can I find a replacement? > > Manufacturer: Magnetic Peripheral > Equip ID# BJ7D3-A > Part # 77708003 > Series Code 01 > > Another thing, I think the drive might be refurbished or something. On > the serial number on one of them, atleast (the working drive) it has a > hand-written "R" after the number. > The R may be a revision code or specify some vendor version. Well, MPI was part of Control Data Corp. (CDC), they got spun off to Imprimis which is now part Seagate. I'd bet Seagate may still have parts available or know who makes the belt. Most of the old disk belts are probably still available through parts houses. Bill From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 18 08:09:52 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180021.TAA06635@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It depends upon when it was first published: I believe the date for ``The > Shockwave Rider'' is 1975. Another book, ``The Adolensence of P1'' may have > been eariler (I want to say 1972, but it may be as late as '74 or '75). > ``P1'' was about a self-aware computer program that spread throughout IBM > mainframes and while it didn't use the term ``worm'' it's propagation is > that of a worm. _The Adolescence of P1_ was published in 1977, last reprinted in 1985. A great book. A pity Ryan didn't write more novels, but after _P1_, he found out that he didn't like science fiction fans. > ``When Harley was One'' is just about a sentient computer in a single > location (I believe, it's been awhile since I read that one, and even then, > I read ``When Harley was One, 2.0.'') and has nothing to do with viruses or > worms. One of these days I'll have to track down a copy of release 1.0 and read it again. I read the copy I got from the SF Book Club back in the early '70s. I'm really not all that crazy about Gerrold's writing in general. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 09:57:44 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <01BE5A8F.E4004A40.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218095744.3067785a@intellistar.net> At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Michael, > >Are those belts problematic? Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate with age. > >I have a real nice HP-85 here but, have never really used it. If the belts >are likely to deterioriate or fail, I wouldn't mind having an extra set. You'll need them. > >BTW: If anyone has an extra set of manuals for a HP85, I could sure use >them. Of course, I'm willing to pay a _fair_ price. Are there any good >on-line resources for HP85 programming and operation? Try www.ebbsoft.com that's the only site for the HP 85,86 & 87 that I know of. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 10:02:55 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Challanger was Re: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: References: <19990217203327589.AAA173@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218100255.3067e2ee@intellistar.net> At 05:48 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >The Challenger was nowhere near suborbital when the explosion took >place. Everything landed off the coast of Florida. Yes, the Challanger crashed just of the Florida coast. In fact, just last year an 11 foot long part of one wing washed up on the shore here. Joe >-- >Ward Griffiths >"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 10:12:38 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) In-Reply-To: <19990218064100.28655.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <36CBA378.2152578A@idirect.com> <199902180309.AA22695@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218101238.307fcdfc@intellistar.net> At 06:41 AM 2/18/99 -0000, you wrote: >> So Eric Smith is technically correct. But, in my humble >> opinion, it is he, not Allison who is missing something!! >> >> Allison, please accept this apology from the rest of the group, as well as >> from Eric Smith (I would hope) for any insensitive treatment of you remarks. > >I did not intend any disrespect to anyone, and apologize if any offense was >given. I, too, was shocked and appalled by the disaster. (And at the >incredible stupidity that caused the disaster, but that's another story.) I >am reminded of the disaster twice every day when I drive past Onizuka Air >Force Base. However, I invite Jerome to explain it to me off the list >exactly what I am "missing". Eric, When you find out let me know too. I read his tirad but I don't understand it either. I especially don't understand his remarks about the computer. Joe From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 08:07:31 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: from "Ward D. Griffiths III" at Feb 18, 99 09:09:52 am Message-ID: <199902181407.GAA24321@saul7.u.washington.edu> Ward Griffiths wrote: > One of these days I'll have to track down a copy of release 1.0 and > read it again. I read the copy I got from the SF Book Club back in > the early '70s. I'm really not all that crazy about Gerrold's > writing in general. I'd be interested to know what the differences between the two releases are. In release 2.0, the author was so insistent that 1.0 was flawed and out-of- date, you wouldn't want to read 1.0, 2.0 was tons better, etc. Actually the parallel with the software industry is frightening... I never noticed that before now! And what about releases 1.0.1, 1.5, 1.9999, 2.0 alpha, etc.? :) A few authors actually use version control so this could happen. Maybe the nice buyers on eBay would like a copy of "When Harl was Onw", release 0.6? -- Derek From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 18 08:21:02 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Who invented the internet? In-Reply-To: <19990218004522793.AAA213@fuj03> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I guess we'll have to see what information is available on the net about > that January 1986 event. I do seem to recall that the flight was about 2 > minutes 10+ seconds underway when the ship hit the fan, so to speak. The > entire trip into orbit only required about 8.5 minutes, so they were a fair > piece of the way along. Due to the way accelleration works, the first two minutes are the slowest. The breakup happened 72 seconds after liftoff at about 48,000 feet up, it peaked at about 65,000 feet before falling back down. Impact in the Atlantic was less than three minutes after the breakup. This puts it a fair number of miles off the coast, but not that big a fair number. A good collection of information is at . -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From musicman38 at mindspring.com Wed Feb 17 20:25:20 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: <000a01be59c4$acbd45e0$eceecdcf@server> <36CAA328.50A9361F@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <36CB7A10.7FEAD2F@mindspring.com> Russ Blakeman wrote: > The Sanyo had a composite port for video, you can use any mono compoite monitor, > like a Commodore setup. If it has the add-on video board you can use a stock CGA > monitor. I have a few here but some are spoken for. I have plenty of composit monitors so thats no problem. The real problem is a keyboard do you know where I can get one of those.? Do you know if a standard DOS like 2.11 would boot this computer ? Or does it take a special Sanyo DOS.. Phil.. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 18 08:49:12 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers Message-ID: <19990218145249507.AAA233@fuj03> I'm not at all certain about any of the mission details regarding the January 1986 (final) Challenger mission. I will yield to your obviously more accurate and current information. Having known that I'm gradually going soft in the head for some time, I'm not surprised or concerned that don't remember precise details about the final Challenger mission. I am quite certain, however, that the documents and schematics which were given to me as part of a FMEA/CIL team, which was a part of the NASA "shuttle-return-to-flight" mission the following fall, were relating to the Honeywell 516. These were not the main computers, of which there are several, but only the engine controllers, which are configured as redundant pairs, one for each engine. There was talk of a plan on the table at the time to replace these with something smaller and lighter, using semiconductor memory and having other features, but the one which we spent half a year studying, at great expense to the taxpayer, and which was purported to be used as that controller was definitely the Honeywell 516. Perhaps there were other more popular models of that number, but the one on the shuttles at that time were all of this type. These were NOT the main computers on the shuttle, but rather the dedicated main engine controllers. The IBM numbers to which you refer do sound to me like the main computers. Analysis of the engine controllers, however, is what our assigned task was, and that's what I remember. I don't suppose they would have had 50 or so of us working for six months on something that wasn't involved. It's conceivable, however, that there are several versions of this processor. It doesn't seem reasonable that they would have used two of a processor weighing what you attribute to the 516. 2.5 cu meters, however, is a small room, and sounds like approximately a 6' rack cabinet, or maybe even a pair. Are you perhaps including a bit of packaging hardware? What's used to control the engine is the processor. The technology is of the same vintage as the DEC PDP-8's I've seen, with hand-wired backplanes and built from ttl-msi. This one used plated wire memory, since that was a mite faster (1 us) than the core of the time(1.2 us). Let's see . . . the IBM AP-101S uses 1/40 cu Meter . . . that's a bit less than a cu. ftm 30 kg and 550 watts. . . . seems reasonable. That they later used one of its IOP's to replace the old model in use on the Challenger and other shuttles at the time seems reasonable as well. Unlike the defense industry and certainly unlike the commercial computer industry, the domain of flight hardware is controlled by "proven-reliable" hardware, so the "current" technology of the time, and the shuttle was designed in the late '60's and built in the '70's, was not the technology of choice. What's more, the engines in use in the early-mid '80's were hand-tweaked hangar queens, not some sort of production hardware. The controllers used "proven" software, which reflected all the caveats of the NASA policy of the time. It's not always the latest technology that you want on your 2-billion-dollar aircraft, but rather the most reliable that does the job. Dick ---------- > From: Eric Smith > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 9:49 PM > > Allison wrote: > > FYI the speed attained at > > that point is some 3600mph far from orbital velocity. > > I'm not sure how to parse that. Are you saying that it was traveling at > 3600 MPH, which is far from orbital velocity (i.e., a missing comma), or > that it was travelling at 3600 MPH less than orbital velocity? > > (In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is > a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) > > The NASA reference I posted earlier claims: > At this point in its trajectory, while traveling at a Mach number > of 1.92 at an altitude of 46,000 feet, the Challenger was totally > enveloped in the explosive burn. > > The best information I have suggests that the Space Shuttle does not > use the Honeywell DDP-516 in any capacity, and that engine control is performed > by the some of the IOP processors that are part of the IBM AP-101S > computers. The entire AP-101S, including both the GPC and IOP, occupies > about 0.025 cubic meters, masses about 30 Kg, and consumes about 550 W. > A DDP-516 occupies about 2.5 cubic meters, masses about 250 Kg, and consumes > over 1000 W. > > The AP-101S replaced an earlier AP-101B computer that was twice the size. > Anybody know where I can find one for my collection? :-) From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 18 09:41:31 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: <199902170026.AA26437@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >The chances of getting those are really good around here (eastern MA) and if >by may you don't have one the MIT flea is a good shot. Oh, I have them. I was hoping that I could get rid of them to save space, but I guess not. Could you recommend me what I should try to download in order to play around with this? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 18 09:43:34 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Free commodore printer Message-ID: I am repeating my offer for a free C-64/C-128(D) -compatible 9-pin dot-matrix printer, an Okidata 120, available for free to anyone in the Boston, MA area. I am also willing to ship it within the continental USA for the price of shipping. It goes to the thrift store this weekend. Thanks. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From steverob at hotoffice.com Thu Feb 18 09:48:43 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed Message-ID: <01BE5B2C.41155BC0.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: > At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Michael, > > > >Are those belts problematic? > > Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate with > age. Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll probably fail. Is there a common source for drive wheels? What about the cartridges? Thanks, Steve Robertson - From bill at chipware.com Thu Feb 18 09:52:31 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <199902180118.TAA25295@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <000601be5b56$b1c47570$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > Hmm, maybe it was The Adolescence of P1, because your description of it OOLCAY ITAY! > is what i was thinking of what i mentioned When Harlie was One.. Harlie > was first published in 1972. From jax at tvec.net Thu Feb 18 09:53:47 1999 From: jax at tvec.net (jax) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: new stuff In-Reply-To: <01be5aeb$91008f60$b7c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990218095347.007bd2d0@pop.tvec.net> Greetings Dyslexia of Borg, I am Typo from the planet Vulcan. Lice kong and prisper. At 10:05 PM 02/17/1999 -0500, you wrote: >err.... mcs-4, mcs-8, of course... > >I am Dyslexia of Borg, fusistance is retile. Your ass will be laminated. >;) >- Mike: dogas@leading.net > > > > jax@tvec.net From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 18 10:20:45 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: new stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990218095347.007bd2d0@pop.tvec.net> from "jax" at Feb 18, 99 09:53:47 am Message-ID: <199902181620.IAA10088@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 578 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990218/25350d73/attachment.ksh From dogas at leading.net Thu Feb 18 10:42:49 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: new stuff Message-ID: <01be5b5d$b8a59ca0$f0c962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser >::Greetings Dyslexia of Borg, I am Typo from the planet Vulcan. >Hmm, my sister and I came up with Damn, you figured it out... I'm your long lost sister... ;) From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Thu Feb 18 11:38:43 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: new stuff In-Reply-To: <01be5b5d$b8a59ca0$f0c962cf@devlaptop> from "Mike" at Feb 18, 99 11:42:49 am Message-ID: <199902181738.JAA15516@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990218/173e3d39/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Thu Feb 18 11:34:46 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Old CDC/Magnetic Peripheral Drive on DPS6 In-Reply-To: <36CC110D.FF4B69DD@sevensages.org> Message-ID: We have a DPS-6 also, and it is a really handsome machine. There is some sort of problem with the tape drive, but we haven't had a chance to look at it yet. On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, J.S.H. wrote: > I have this weird drive on an old mini (Honeywell DPS6). These things > have an internal fixed disk, plus, you have to put in a disk pack in > them also. Well, on one of my drives, the belt that runs between the > drive spindle and the motor broke. Where can I find a replacement? > > Manufacturer: Magnetic Peripheral > Equip ID# BJ7D3-A > Part # 77708003 > Series Code 01 > > Another thing, I think the drive might be refurbished or something. On > the serial number on one of them, atleast (the working drive) it has a > hand-written "R" after the number. > > Anybody who can help me, please do. In fact, if you can help me with > anything about the DPS6 or with GCOS6, I will be forever thankful. From > what I've heard, GCOS6 is sort of a GCOS/Unix hybrid. Should be > interesting. > > Also, if by chance, you know of an old Unix variant that would run on > this baby, that could be nice too. I think having an old 7th edition > Unix system would be nice. However, I think having GCOS6 would be > really nice, too. > > Regards, > J.S. Havard > Head Geek > The Seven Sages Project > > Regards, > J.S. Havard > > - > ----=(enigma@intop.net)=---------------------------------------------- > This message was sponsored in part by John Havard. Copywrong (c) > 1998 by John Havard under the terms and conditions of no sort of > public license. All prices subject to change. Void where prohibited. > Tax, title, and license fees not included. All rights reserved. > ------------------------=(www.intop.net/~enigma/)=-------------------- > From msg at computerpro.com Thu Feb 18 11:50:16 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed References: <01BE5B2C.41155BC0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <36CC52D7.6FBDA57C@computerpro.com> More requests for belts are still arriving; by Sunday evening I will tally the totals and place the order monday morning. Costs will be the list price; shipping costs will be determined by postage in the U.S. I expect to use first-class mail for a few belts and third-class for larger quantities. I will e-mail each of you who order with the total amount. The question below concerns the capstan rubber. I have simply rubbed off the bad rubber, smoothed out the capstan surface, applied contact cement and recoated with an appropriate strip of firm rubber diagionally cut to minimize the impact of the splice. Dig around in household items to find examples of rubber approx. 1mm thick. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum Steve Robertson wrote: > > On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > wrote: > > At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >Michael, > > > > > >Are those belts problematic? > > > > Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate > with > > age. > > Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is > pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll > probably fail. > > Is there a common source for drive wheels? > What about the cartridges? > > Thanks, > > Steve Robertson - From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 14:08:04 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <36CB7A10.7FEAD2F@mindspring.com> References: <000a01be59c4$acbd45e0$eceecdcf@server> <36CAA328.50A9361F@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218140804.305fbb8a@intellistar.net> At 09:25 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Do you know if a standard DOS like 2.11 would boot this computer ? >Or does it take a special Sanyo DOS.. I takes a special version of DOS. I have plenty of disks for it. I posted a list about a week ago. You should be able to find it in the archivies. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 14:47:20 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <19990217.220018.247.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> Jeff, I tried a ST-251-1 but it wouldn't work. Here's the story: I picked up a HP 9133XV drive with a bad drive in it. The XV is the one that you can partion into 4 so that it looks like 4 HP 9895 floppy drives to the system. It's the only hard drive that can be used on the HP 85, 150 and some of the others. This one has a Seagate ST-419 drive in. I replaced it with a Seagate ST-251 that has the same number of heads but more tracks and is smaller and faster. The system recognizes if but it won't format it. It says that the drives are bad. I'd like to get it running again since the XV drives are hard to find. The 251 does have fewer sectors (17 vs 32). I don't know if that's why it failed or not. Joe At 10:00 PM 2/17/99 -0600, you wrote: >Joe: > >If you really need one of these, I may be able to dredge one up for you >(or at least one with similar geometry); but like the other guy says, >just about any drive with six heads ought to work. > >BTW-- I will be sending you the 'stuff' tomorrow; it took me awhile >to get my act together. > >Ciao. > > >Jeff > > > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:53:14 Joe writes: >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP >>computer. >>Anyone got one to spare? >> >> Joe >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 14:52:34 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <199902180333.UAA01110@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990217185314.305f1cc0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218145234.305f979a@intellistar.net> Jim, Thanks for the offer but I don't think it will work. The 4053 only has 5 heads and the 419 has six. FWIW I tried a ST-251 (with 6 heads) and it didn't work. Joe At 08:33 PM 2/17/99 -0700, you wrote: >I have an ST-4053, if that would work. > >> >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. >> Anyone got one to spare? >> >> Joe >> > > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 14:56:54 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <01BE5B2C.41155BC0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> At 10:48 AM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] >wrote: >> At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >Michael, >> > >> >Are those belts problematic? >> >> Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate >with >> age. > > >Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is >pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll >probably fail. Don't try to use the drive with a "gooy" wheel. The goo gets into the tape and sticks it together then when you try the tape in a good drive, the tape stickes to itself and the drive breaks it. > >Is there a common source for drive wheels? NO, but I've been working on finding a way to rebuild them. Partial success so far. >What about the cartridges? They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at hamfest and surplus outlets. Joe > >Thanks, > >Steve Robertson - > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 15:17:16 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:14 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990217185314.305f1cc0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218151716.305fe37c@intellistar.net> >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. >> Anyone got one to spare? I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? Joe From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Feb 18 13:34:16 1999 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr Message-ID: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> Security concerns? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Author: classiccmp@u.washington.edu at internet Date: 2/18/99 2:19 PM >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. >> Anyone got one to spare? I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? Joe ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1999Feb18.141931.1767.100595; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:19:34 -0500 Received: from host (server@lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with SMTP id LAA29647; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:16:53 -0800 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.9.2+UW99.01/8.9.2+UW99.01) with ESMTP id LAA2 8480 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:16:45 -0800 Received: from star1.intellistar.net (star1.intellistar.net [206.105.64.2]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id LAA10 573 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:16:44 -0800 Received: from lizard ([206.105.68.186]) by star1.intellistar.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-41809U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAB2534 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:16:41 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990218151716.305fe37c@intellistar.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:17:16 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Joe To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990217185314.305f1cc0@intellistar.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: rigdonj@intellistar.net X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN From steverob at hotoffice.com Thu Feb 18 13:35:37 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <01BE5B4B.F3ADA1B0.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:17 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: > >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. > >> Anyone got one to spare? > > I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" > hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a > circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back > together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? > > Joe Joe, Drill about 18 more and put it up for auction ;-) Steve Robertson - From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 18 13:51:05 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <01BE5B4B.F3ADA1B0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <13429067519.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Drill about 18 more holes...] ObEbay: RARE!!! VENTILATED HARDDISK! MAY BE COMPATIBLE WITH ALTAIRS! FIRST HARDDISK TO SPORT VENTILATION HOLEZ! ONLY KNOWN ONE IN EXISTANCE! RARE RARE RARE! DID WE MENTION IT WAS RARE? Grep Bait: COMPUTER, RARE, DISK, ALTAIR, SEX, PRON, PORN, XXX CHEAP, WAREZ, XYZZY, ETC, AND, OR, NOT, SPAM ------- From red at bears.org Thu Feb 18 14:01:23 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <13429067519.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > RARE!!! VENTILATED HARDDISK! MAY BE COMPATIBLE WITH ALTAIRS! I was thinking more along the lines of "extremely rare hard-sectored fixed disk. Only one known in existence..." ok r. From stan at netcom.com Thu Feb 18 14:33:33 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed/drive wheel repair References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36CC791D.A4907A52@netcom.com> To all, I've found an easy way to replace the gooey drive wheels on the HP cartridge drives as found in the HP-85, 9825, 9815, and other devices. First, remove the drive motor/drive wheel assembly from the tape drive assembly. Be careful not to break any of the wires going to the motor, tape head, opto sensors, etc.! Next, scrape of the goo remaining from the old hub. Once the majority is removed, use an acetone-soaked rag to get down to the bare aluminum hub. Next, cut three pieces of heat-shrink tubing whose diameter will allow them to just fit over the bare hub (it's either 1/2" or 3/4"--I don't remember offhand). Each piece should be about 1/2" long. Slip the first piece over the hub and center it vertically. Shrink it down with a heat gun or hair dryer. Slip the second over the first and shrink it. Likewise with the third piece. Leave the "overlap" of the tubing above and below the wheel. This helps to hold the tubing on the hub and doesn't affect the operation of the drive. Reassemble the tape drive mechanism. After a bit of practice, I can usually get a tape drive rebuilt in 15 or 30 minutes. So far, they have all worked fine. The drive wheel is a bit harder than the original rubber wheel, but it doesn't slip, as far as I can tell. The only caveat is that it's probably not a good idea to leave a tape in the drive (e.g., for autostart purposes) for long periods as the harder drive wheel *may* dent the wheel in the tape cartridge. Hope this helps! Stan Joe wrote: > > At 10:48 AM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote: > >On Thursday, February 18, 1999 4:58 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > >wrote: > >> At 04:09 PM 2/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >> >Michael, > >> > > >> >Are those belts problematic? > >> > >> Yes, the belts and the drive wheel for the tape drives disintegrate > >with > >> age. > > > > > >Looking at my machine, I can see that the drive wheel for the tape drive is > >pretty funky. I haven't tried to use it (don't have a cartridge) but, it'll > >probably fail. > > Don't try to use the drive with a "gooy" wheel. The goo gets into the > tape and sticks it together then when you try the tape in a good drive, the > tape stickes to itself and the drive breaks it. > > > >Is there a common source for drive wheels? > > NO, but I've been working on finding a way to rebuild them. Partial > success so far. > > >What about the cartridges? > > They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at > hamfest and surplus outlets. > > Joe > > > >Thanks, > > > >Steve Robertson - > > > > > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 18 14:49:00 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218151716.305fe37c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" > hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a > circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back > together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? Some practical joker who imagined what would be going through the head of the poor sap (you) that found it that way :) Either that or somebody wanted a warranty return and figured nobody would ever go through the trouble of troubleshooting the machine? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From mbg at world.std.com Thu Feb 18 14:56:20 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <199902182056.AA11609@world.std.com> I doubt it was security concerns, since there are companies which can recover data from all the parts of the platters which weren't drilled. Either that, or the security person who ordered it really doesn't know what they're doing... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 18 15:07:42 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> (message from Joe on Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:56:54) References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <19990218210742.221.qmail@brouhaha.com> > >What about the cartridges? > > They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at > hamfest and surplus outlets. Isn't it just a standard DC-100 cartridge? AFAIK, those are still being made. Of course, it's undoubtedly cheaper to get them at a hamfest. Unfortunately some HP systems (and some other vendors' systems as well) require preformatted tapes. I hope the HP-85 doesn't need that. I'm told that the HP 9133 (or was it 9144?) does. From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 18 16:05:35 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > I tried a ST-251-1 but it wouldn't work. Here's the story: > > I picked up a HP 9133XV drive with a bad drive in it. The XV is the one > that you can partion into 4 so that it looks like 4 HP 9895 floppy drives > to the system. It's the only hard drive that can be used on the HP 85, 150 > and some of the others. This one has a Seagate ST-419 drive in. I replaced > it with a Seagate ST-251 that has the same number of heads but more tracks > and is smaller and faster. The system recognizes if but it won't format it. > It says that the drives are bad. I'd like to get it running again since the > XV drives are hard to find. > > The 251 does have fewer sectors (17 vs 32). I don't know if that's why > it failed or not. HP was fond of formatting hard drives at 256 bytes/sector. That is likely the case with your ST-419. - don > Joe From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Feb 18 16:25:46 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990218142406.00a54470@mcmanis.com> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" > hole thru the cover and all three platters! At 02:34 PM 2/18/99 -0500, Marty wrote: > Security concerns? Precisely. In fact I believe that this is standard drive decomissioning procedure. I've seen entire pallets of drives mutilated in just that fashion at Berman. --Chuck From musicman38 at mindspring.com Thu Feb 18 16:23:14 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (musicman38@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <001f01be5b8d$471c35a0$79efcdcf@server> --- I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" >hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a >circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back >together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? > > Joe Gads! I've heard of reformatting old drives for security reasones, but this one takes the Cake... Quick and easy way to eliminate a data getting in the wrong hands I guess.. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 18 14:57:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Old CDC/Magnetic Peripheral Drive on DPS6 In-Reply-To: <36CC110D.FF4B69DD@sevensages.org> from "J.S.H." at Feb 18, 99 07:09:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990218/8edb7eca/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 18 16:25:44 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > I tried a ST-251-1 but it wouldn't work. Here's the story: > > The 251 does have fewer sectors (17 vs 32). I don't know if that's why > > it failed or not. On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > HP was fond of formatting hard drives at 256 bytes/sector. That is likely > the case with your ST-419. Therefore, it would require a low-level format at 256 Bps (v the "usual" 512). It might even need to have a 5/16" hole drilled through the whole unit :-) Memo to self: always check whether any drives are mounted on other side before drilling mounting holes. From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Feb 18 17:19:42 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD Message-ID: <36CCA00E.EDE75AE8@halcyon.com> I have a noisy ST 251 hard drive. It sounds like the bearings. Is it heretical to think I may be able to lubricate the bearings? They appear to be easily accessible on the bottom of the drive. Thanks, Dave From jpero at cgocable.net Thu Feb 18 17:31:13 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> References: <19990217.220018.247.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <199902182328.SAA03126@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:47:20 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Joe To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Originally to: jeff.kaneko@juno.com > Jeff, > > I tried a ST-251-1 but it wouldn't work. Here's the story: > > I picked up a HP 9133XV drive with a bad drive in it. The XV is the one > that you can partion into 4 so that it looks like 4 HP 9895 floppy drives > to the system. It's the only hard drive that can be used on the HP 85, 150 > and some of the others. This one has a Seagate ST-419 drive in. I > replaced it with a Seagate ST-251 that has the same number of heads but > more tracks and is smaller and faster. The system recognizes if but it > won't format it. It says that the drives are bad. I'd like to get it > running again since the XV drives are hard to find. > > The 251 does have fewer sectors (17 vs 32). I don't know if that's why > it failed or not. > > Joe That exactly why this failed. The platters themselves can't handle that much sectors. Try: Find 2 HD's: ST296N (electronics can be dead but must have good pack) ST277R (the pack can be bad, but needs the electronics.) Use the ST277R board on the ST296N pack to give you compatiablity for the HP85. There are many other drives that has 32 sectors or up but with "different interface" but another hd that use HDA to logicboard interface that shares same design and take the RLL rated logic board to another drive that does this 32 or up sectors. Jason D. From roblwill at usaor.net Thu Feb 18 20:25:13 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <01be5baf$14af74c0$ad8ea6d1@the-general> Wouldn't it just be quicker to remove all the partitions? And if the extra time is taken to reformat it, the drive can be sold if it is still usable. In the case that the hole was drilled through it, the drive may have died, leaving no way to reformat it. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: musicman38@mindspring.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 2:23 PM Subject: Re: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive > >--- I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" >>hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a >>circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back >>together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? >> >> Joe > >Gads! I've heard of reformatting old drives for security reasones, but this >one takes the Cake... >Quick and easy way to eliminate a data getting in the wrong hands I guess.. > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 18 17:16:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> from "Marty" at Feb 18, 99 02:34:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 297 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990218/b84592d5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 18 17:21:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Feb 18, 99 03:01:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990218/7e2d4138/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 18 17:03:28 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 18, 99 02:47:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1608 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990218/3d9bff61/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 18 17:58:49 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) Message-ID: <199902182358.AA01089@world.std.com> First off it's ok, I'm ok! FYI the speed attained at <> that point is some 3600mph far from orbital velocity. < from "David C. Jenner" at Feb 18, 99 03:19:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/60612bee/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 18 19:08:52 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Classic Calculator: Value? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990218170852.009484c0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Ok, so I'm not a big calculator collector. ;-) However, I did pick up a neat little box recently, one that I'd like to (a) find out, ballpark, what similar units have been going for on the swap market, and (b), use it myself for a while. What I've gotten is an HP-65, in pretty darn good shape, in its hard case with a bunch of the program pacs and all its manuals. I know I've got at least one, possibly two EE pacs, a stat pac, and others that I've not looked at just yet. The batteries are dead, of course, so I think I'd like to get them replaced at least. Are they generic NiCds or what? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jpero at cgocable.net Thu Feb 18 19:20:18 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD In-Reply-To: References: <36CCA00E.EDE75AE8@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Feb 18, 99 03:19:42 pm Message-ID: <199902190117.UAA05719@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:47:45 +0000 (GMT) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Noisy ST 251 HD > > > > I have a noisy ST 251 hard drive. It sounds like the bearings. > > Are you sure it's the bearings? The noise usually comes from the earthing > contact on the bottom of the spindle. Move it sideways slightly and see if > that silences it. > > > > > Is it heretical to think I may be able to lubricate the bearings? > > Very unlikely. There must be some kind of seal round the spindle to > prevent dust coming up there. No chance of oil getting to the right > places. > > -tony > Spin it up and watch that stepper motor centre, (you can paint a soild semi-disc black with permanent marker, this easier to watch). Is that noise like the low, "soft gritty" such as grinding corn by hand on that platter spindle? This is another leading cause of ST251x series killer. (That includes ST277x, ST296x) because spindle hub design and whole thing is very poorly designed and built poorly. Jason D. From wpe101 at banet.net Thu Feb 18 19:46:11 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (Will Emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: question about viruses References: <199902180243.AA25217@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36CCC263.D3EA02CE@banet.net> Allison, Do you remember a worm that some sysadmin (North, South Carolina or someplace like that?) turned loose on his systems, back around 89-90, and _forgot_ to isolate his network from the general DECnet? I sure do.. Spent most of a Sunday with _that_ _one_... Those good old LA100's spitting so many SECURPAK alarms that they basically brought many VAXclusters to their knees... Will Allison J Parent wrote: > > > They are far older. > > > The first one I know of ram on TOPS-10 V3.x and was a monitor virus (using > modern terms). It was a hack to open the security door. That done we > created cancer that was a program that did nothing except copy itself. > > that was back around '71. There were telco virus as well in teh 70s with > the advent of ESS. > > back in late '69 on a PDP-8I we ran a Trogen Hourse to get passwords and > spoof people (written in pal-III!). > > Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 18 20:03:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Classic Calculator: Value? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990218170852.009484c0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Feb 18, 99 05:08:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1938 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/52860751/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 18 20:14:20 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: question about viruses Message-ID: <199902190214.AA14045@world.std.com> Message-ID: In message <01be5b3b$65657aa0$d3c962cf@devlaptop>, "Mike" writes: >Speaking of _Adikesence of P1_ .... Does anyone know the SciAm issue date >for the referenced matchbook neural net ??? It's been a long time since I read the book (I really should read it again, now that the subject has come up). But if he're refering to the article I think, it's by Martin Gardner. Unfortunately, I can't find a full reference. (Somewhere I've got a photocopy of it, but I can't find it right now.) Anyway, I do find that it came from a 1962 issue. In the article, Gardner defines (I can't remember if he references anyone else) a simple game played with six pawns played on a 3x3 board. Using 24 matchboxes, he shows a learning machine called Hexapawn Educational Robot (HER). I've got a fond spot in my heart for this one of Gardner's articles. A simplified version was printed under the title "How to Play Hexapawn" in the collection called *The New Reader's Digest Treasury for Young Readers,* a copy of which was given to me by a relative when I was a kid. It sparked my interest in AI which reached it climax about seven years ago when I defended my dissertation in machine learning. Brian L. Stuart From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Feb 18 20:24:58 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler Message-ID: <199902190224.UAA00057@thorin.cs.umn.edu> I have a listing (green bar) of the PDP 8/e and /l music compiler. Is this something of value to someone, or has this already been archived someplace? As far as I know, this may have been written here at the U of Minnesota. I assume the Pascal Compiler that was written here is already available someplace (it was once distributed by Decus). I have the original floppies that were submitted to decus and returned by decus. -Lawrence LeMay From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Feb 18 20:22:53 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <19990218.202257.241.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Hey Joe! I went down to the junkyard near where I worked, and managed to turn not one, not two, but *three* HP 9133XV's! There were also "V"'s a "D", and an "H". I grabbed one of the XV's, and plan to test it with my 9816. If the platters are in good condix, would you be interested? I could even just pull the HDD unit (14.8Mb :) and send *that* if you like! Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Feb 18 20:27:09 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Classic Calculator: Value? References: <3.0.5.32.19990218170852.009484c0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <36CCCBFD.C49426C9@halcyon.com> Bruce, You can look at http://www.hpmuseum.org/collect.htm#diff to see that they are "worth" about $86-$352. You can make up a battery pack from generic NiCds, or you may be able still to find some sold. (University Book Store in Seattle had them last time I tried, which was 5-10 years ago.) Have you tried reading a magnetic card? It is quite possible the rubber wheels that transport the mag card have "gummed up". Be careful with the cards; use a "scratch" card the first try. Email me offline if you need more info. I used to be a pretty good HP-65 programmer, but it's been a while! Dave Bruce Lane wrote: > > Ok, so I'm not a big calculator collector. ;-) However, I did pick up a > neat little box recently, one that I'd like to (a) find out, ballpark, what > similar units have been going for on the swap market, and (b), use it > myself for a while. > > What I've gotten is an HP-65, in pretty darn good shape, in its hard case > with a bunch of the program pacs and all its manuals. I know I've got at > least one, possibly two EE pacs, a stat pac, and others that I've not > looked at just yet. > > The batteries are dead, of course, so I think I'd like to get them > replaced at least. Are they generic NiCds or what? > > Thanks in advance. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 18 20:50:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > >The chances of getting those are really good around here (eastern MA) and if > >by may you don't have one the MIT flea is a good shot. > > Oh, I have them. I was hoping that I could get rid of them to save space, > but I guess not. Could you recommend me what I should try to download in > order to play around with this? Try to get the OS278 teledisk or putr formatted disk images for the DMII/III. the DMII earlier machine is compatable and uses the same disks. Allison From stan at netcom.com Thu Feb 18 21:08:15 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> <19990218210742.221.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <36CCD59F.5727CACE@netcom.com> Eric Smith wrote: > > > >What about the cartridges? > > > > They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at > > hamfest and surplus outlets. > > Isn't it just a standard DC-100 cartridge? AFAIK, those are still being > made. Of course, it's undoubtedly cheaper to get them at a hamfest. > > Unfortunately some HP systems (and some other vendors' systems as well) > require preformatted tapes. I hope the HP-85 doesn't need that. > I'm told that the HP 9133 (or was it 9144?) does. The DC-100 cartridges are not preformatted, and will work in the HP-85, 9815, 9825, etc. The 9144 (and 9145) require a preformatted DC-600 style cartridge. The 9142 can format a blank DC-600 cartridge, but the format is not compatible with the 9144/9145. One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85 and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner. Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be damaged in this way if they're old enough. Stan From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 18 21:12:45 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Differences between hard drives Message-ID: Can someone tell me the difference between a Memorex Model 101 and Model 102, and between a Fujitsu Model 2301 and Model 2302? Thanks. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From black at gco.apana.org.au Fri Feb 19 03:20:09 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... Message-ID: <36CD2CC7.EDF98668@gco.apana.org.au> Latest buy from the Resource Shop attached to Glenorchy tip was a box containing 6 Atari 2600 consoles, plus 40 odd C64 floppies & about 20 cartridges for the Ataris. I'm keeping the C= disks, but if anyone in Oz is willing to pay postage, they can have the Ataris & carts (I don't collect 'em - but for $10 I couldn't say no :-) ) Oh yeah, there's a Dick Smith VZ200 put aside for me as well, again, I don't really want it, but will forward it to someone who does (they want $8 for it, includes tape deck & two joysticks). cheers, Lance From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 18 21:37:23 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > In message <01be5b3b$65657aa0$d3c962cf@devlaptop>, "Mike" writes: > >Speaking of _Adikesence of P1_ .... Does anyone know the SciAm issue date > >for the referenced matchbook neural net ??? > > It's been a long time since I read the book (I really should > read it again, now that the subject has come up). But if > he're refering to the article I think, it's by Martin > Gardner. Unfortunately, I can't find a full reference. > (Somewhere I've got a photocopy of it, but I can't find it > right now.) Anyway, I do find that it came from a 1962 issue. > > In the article, Gardner defines (I can't remember if he references > anyone else) a simple game played with six pawns played on a 3x3 > board. Using 24 matchboxes, he shows a learning machine called > Hexapawn Educational Robot (HER). > > I've got a fond spot in my heart for this one of Gardner's > articles. A simplified version was printed under the title > "How to Play Hexapawn" in the collection called *The New Reader's > Digest Treasury for Young Readers,* a copy of which was given to > me by a relative when I was a kid. It sparked my interest in AI > which reached it climax about seven years ago when I defended my > dissertation in machine learning. Hexapawn as a BASIC program was in David Ahl's first (DEC) release of "BASIC Computer Games". The original Scientific American article inspired the story "Without a Thought" by Fred Saberhagen, the first of his "Berserker" short stories about robots left by an ancient civilization ripped off without credit for the episode of the old Star Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine". Hexapawn is a fun game, even though you know damned well you'll lose later. (Like arcade games in a way -- however well you do at Space Invaders, they'll just keep crapping on you until you die only faster). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 18 21:33:12 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... In-Reply-To: <36CD2CC7.EDF98668@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Lance Lyon wrote: > Latest buy from the Resource Shop attached to Glenorchy tip was a box > containing 6 Atari 2600 consoles, plus 40 odd C64 floppies & about 20 > cartridges for the Ataris. I'm keeping the C= disks, but if anyone in Oz > is willing to pay postage, they can have the Ataris & carts (I don't > collect 'em - but for $10 I couldn't say no :-) ) Oh yeah, there's a > Dick Smith VZ200 put aside for me as well, again, I don't really want > it, but will forward it to someone who does (they want $8 for it, > includes tape deck & two joysticks). VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith VZ200? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Feb 18 21:45:50 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... Message-ID: <006001be5bba$589bc200$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Yep, its the same thang, Sellam. I have the manual for this machine. There is a similar machine, the VZ-300. A -- Andrew Davie adavie@mad.scientist.com Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Yahoo! Netscape, New Scientist, The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and UK Independant Cool Site! >VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. >I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a >chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the >bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video >Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith >VZ200? > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Feb 18 21:50:21 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: CESI PDP8/e boards Message-ID: <199902190350.VAA00079@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Anyone have any boards made by CESI in their PDP8/e ? I have a bunch of advertizement fliers describing many of these boards, if somoene is interested in the information. They made a replacement cpu board and quite a few other boards. -Lawrence LeMay From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Feb 18 22:00:56 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: CESI PDP8/e boards In-Reply-To: <199902190350.VAA00079@thorin.cs.umn.edu> (message from Lawrence LeMay on Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:50:21 -0600 (CST)) References: <199902190350.VAA00079@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <19990219040056.2831.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Anyone have any boards made by CESI in their PDP8/e ? I have a bunch of > advertizement fliers describing many of these boards, if somoene is > interested in the information. They made a replacement cpu board and I'm quite interested in this? Can you scan them and put them on the web? If not, I can. Cheers, Eric From mbg at world.std.com Thu Feb 18 22:04:08 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive Message-ID: <199902190404.AA23691@world.std.com> >Gads! I've heard of reformatting old drives for security reasones, but >this one takes the Cake... Quick and easy way to eliminate a data >getting in the wrong hands I guess.. Quick and easy way of removing a few bytes, that's all. As I mentioned previously, there are companies which specialize in data recovery from disks... and the disks don't even have to be operational. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 18 22:13:03 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... In-Reply-To: <006001be5bba$589bc200$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > Yep, its the same thang, Sellam. > I have the manual for this machine. There is a similar machine, the VZ-300. Coolness. I wonder how it found its way over here. This is a Z-80 based machine I assume? What is the difference between the VZ200 and VZ300? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:36:49 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218233649.4bb71aa0@intellistar.net> At 02:34 PM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote: > Security concerns? Maybe but no very effective since 99+% of the disk is intact and all that data could be recovered. When I worked at Martin Marietta, we removed the hard drives and dissolved them in acid per DOD requirement. At first we dissolved the entire computer in acid but it finally dawned on them that that wasn't necessary. Hmm, I wonder if that's one reason why there are so few old computers left? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:37:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <01BE5B4B.F3ADA1B0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218233752.4bb71500@intellistar.net> At 02:35 PM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:17 AM, Joe [SMTP:rigdonj@intellistar.net] wrote: >> >On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: >> > >> >> I need a Seagate ST-419 to replace one that failed in a HP computer. >> >> Anyone got one to spare? >> >> I opened up the 419 drive, No wonder it failed, someone drilled a 5/16" >> hole thru the cover and all three platters! This thing was mounted under a >> circuit board and inside a steel case. Everything was very neatly put back >> together. Who would go to that much trouble to wreck a drive and why? >> >> Joe > >Joe, > >Drill about 18 more and put it up for auction ;-) Great idea! An original antique Altair hard drive! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:41:18 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed/drive wheel repair In-Reply-To: <36CC791D.A4907A52@netcom.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218234118.4bb71766@intellistar.net> At 12:33 PM 2/18/99 -0800, Stan P. wrote: >To all, > > Hi Stan. When did you join this list? Folks, we have another HP expert here now. Ask Stan all your HP questions. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:49:31 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <19990218210742.221.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218234931.304f91d2@intellistar.net> At 09:07 PM 2/18/99 -0000, you wrote: >> >What about the cartridges? >> >> They can be found. There were some on E-bay recently. They turn up at >> hamfest and surplus outlets. > >Isn't it just a standard DC-100 cartridge? I'm not sure about the length but I've been using DC-2000s with no problems. Old DEC tapes work great. In fact, the HP tapes are sorry! The media flakes off of them very easily. Back them up as soon as you get them!!! I tested 14 of them a few months ago and some died on the first use, only one lasted more than three days and it died after about two weeks. AFAIK, those are still being >made. Of course, it's undoubtedly cheaper to get them at a hamfest. > >Unfortunately some HP systems (and some other vendors' systems as well) >require preformatted tapes. I hope the HP-85 doesn't need that. >I'm told that the HP 9133 (or was it 9144?) does. Yes the 9144 and 9145 and 7946 all require preformatted DC-600 tapes. And they're formatted all the way across the tape not just across the data track so there's no way to format them without a special machine. No the small tapes used in the 9825s, HP 85s, etc are blank and can be formatted in the computer/calculator. Most use the command "Initialize" to format the tapes. Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:52:27 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218235227.30775fb2@intellistar.net> At 02:05 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > >HP was fond of formatting hard drives at 256 bytes/sector. That is likely >the case with your ST-419. Yes, this one uses 256 bytes/sector but wouldn't reformatting it take care of that? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:54:55 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990218142406.00a54470@mcmanis.com> References: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218235455.30775b64@intellistar.net> At 02:25 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >> Security concerns? > >Precisely. In fact I believe that this is standard drive decomissioning >procedure. I've seen entire pallets of drives mutilated in just that >fashion at Berman. Standard for who? US DOD requires they be dissolved in acid. Drilling would certainly be safer, cheaper and faster but not totally secure. Joe > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 18 23:58:25 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD In-Reply-To: <36CCA00E.EDE75AE8@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990218235825.30778fb8@intellistar.net> Dave, You haven't got anything to lose but I think anything that will penatrate into the bearings is also going to penetrate into the disk chamber. Check and see if it isn't the grounding strap first. They're notorious for making noise. Joe At 03:19 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >I have a noisy ST 251 hard drive. It sounds like the bearings. > >Is it heretical to think I may be able to lubricate the bearings? >They appear to be easily accessible on the bottom of the drive. > >Thanks, >Dave > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 00:01:03 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <199902182328.SAA03126@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> <19990217.220018.247.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219000103.3077e36c@intellistar.net> At 06:31 PM 2/18/99 -0500, Jason wrote: > >Try: > >Find 2 HD's: > >ST296N (electronics can be dead but must have good pack) >ST277R (the pack can be bad, but needs the electronics.) > >Use the ST277R board on the ST296N pack to give you >compatiablity for the HP85. > Great! Now I have to find TWO drives instead of one! :-/ Just kidding. Thanks for the suggestion. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 00:09:02 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990218144720.5107d8ce@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219000902.3077b3ec@intellistar.net> At 11:03 PM 2/18/99 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Jeff, >> >> I tried a ST-251-1 but it wouldn't work. Here's the story: >> >> I picked up a HP 9133XV drive with a bad drive in it. The XV is the one >> that you can partion into 4 so that it looks like 4 HP 9895 floppy drives >> to the system. It's the only hard drive that can be used on the HP 85, 150 >> and some of the others. This one has a Seagate ST-419 drive in. I replaced >> it with a Seagate ST-251 that has the same number of heads but more tracks >> and is smaller and faster. The system recognizes if but it won't format it. > >Are you sure you're really doing a low-level format? No, I'm not sure. I'm just using the initialize command in HP BASIC and the format command in HP CPM. That's the only "tools" they give you. I have no idea how to do a low level format on these. > >It's possible the controller (in the 9133) is expecting to see a drive >with the correct sector pattern - the low-level format - already in >place. When it doesn't see it, it complains. That's what I'm wondering too. FWIW I did replace a Seagate ST-225 in another drive with a drive from a PC and it worked fine after initializing. > >I don't know if the 9133 (as supplied) is capable of low-level >formatting. On some other controllers (not HP, nothing to do with the >HP150), this was done by setting the DIP switches correctly and turning >on. Alternatively, you might need a special ROM set for the controller >board, or even a special manufacturing rig. > >> It says that the drives are bad. I'd like to get it running again since the >> XV drives are hard to find. >> >> The 251 does have fewer sectors (17 vs 32). I don't know if that's why >> it failed or not. > >The 251 is (AFAIK) soft-sectored. The 17 sectors is something that's >specified when you low-level format it. That's what I thought but maybe HP has some special sector markers on one of the platters. > >If it is the case that you're not doing a low-level format, then not only >do you need an ST419, but also an ST419 that's been formatted on this >type of controller Yes, the only way to find out is to get a 419 and try it. Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 00:25:02 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:15 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <19990218.202257.241.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219002502.3077afec@intellistar.net> Jeff, I'd like to have the whole thing! or things :-) I'm also interested in the other drives. What would you wnat for them? You don't have to hook them to a system to test them, just power them up and be sure the FAULT light goes out. They may not be formatted for your 9816. I'd rather you didn't format them since there may be something usefull on them. Any idea what kind of system they were used on? BTW are you the guy that I sold the Nimetz keyboard to? Do you have any floppy disks with BASIC or the other languages? I have them on hard disk but I'd like to get a floppy copy and the file on the disk is too big to copy to a floppy. Joe PS On *some* of the HP drives you can park the heads by disconnecting the drive from a system then powering it up. They'll park automaticly after selftesting. I don't know if this works on all drives but it doesn't hurt to do it. At 08:22 PM 2/18/99 -0600, you wrote: > >Hey Joe! > >I went down to the junkyard near where I worked, and >managed to turn not one, not two, but *three* >HP 9133XV's! There were also "V"'s a "D", and an "H". > >I grabbed one of the XV's, and plan to test it with my >9816. If the platters are in good condix, would you be >interested? I could even just pull the HDD unit (14.8Mb :) >and send *that* if you like! > >Jeff >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > From joe at barrera.org Thu Feb 18 22:33:53 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr References: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> <3.0.1.16.19990218235455.30775b64@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <030101be5bc1$0fd16730$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> > Standard for who? US DOD requires they be dissolved in acid. Drilling > would certainly be safer, cheaper and faster but not totally secure. For a slower but perhaps even more effective method, how about giving the disk to a technically inclined seven-year-old with access to his dad's tool set? :-) - Joe From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Feb 18 22:28:34 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD References: <3.0.1.16.19990218235825.30778fb8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36CCE872.771E5F0B@halcyon.com> It's not the grounding strap. It's certainly bearings. I tested the drive some more and decided it had too many errors anyway, so I'll junk it. Dave Joe wrote: > > Dave, > > You haven't got anything to lose but I think anything that will penatrate > into the bearings is also going to penetrate into the disk chamber. Check > and see if it isn't the grounding strap first. They're notorious for making > noise. > > Joe > > At 03:19 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I have a noisy ST 251 hard drive. It sounds like the bearings. > > > >Is it heretical to think I may be able to lubricate the bearings? > >They appear to be easily accessible on the bottom of the drive. > > > >Thanks, > >Dave > > From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 18 22:50:16 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218235227.30775fb2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > At 02:05 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >HP was fond of formatting hard drives at 256 bytes/sector. That is likely > >the case with your ST-419. > > Yes, this one uses 256 bytes/sector but wouldn't reformatting it take > care of that? Low-level formatting can. A normal "format" is not low-level. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 01:14:17 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <030101be5bc1$0fd16730$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> References: <1999Feb18.143302.1767.193731@smtp.itgonline.com> <3.0.1.16.19990218235455.30775b64@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219011417.4bb70192@intellistar.net> At 08:33 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >> Standard for who? US DOD requires they be dissolved in acid. Drilling >> would certainly be safer, cheaper and faster but not totally secure. > >For a slower but perhaps even more effective method, how about giving the >disk to a technically inclined seven-year-old with access to his dad's tool >set? :-) > I had one woman call me and ask my advice about how to render a non-working drive totally unreadable since they had confidental business information on it. My advice was to take the drive out of the computer and smash it up with an axe. She told me later that that she got enormous satisfaction out of mangling it! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 01:16:45 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990218235227.30775fb2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219011645.30776df0@intellistar.net> At 11:50 PM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > >> At 02:05 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >HP was fond of formatting hard drives at 256 bytes/sector. That is likely >> >the case with your ST-419. >> >> Yes, this one uses 256 bytes/sector but wouldn't reformatting it take >> care of that? > >Low-level formatting can. A normal "format" is not low-level. That's true for MS DOS but what about on a non-MS DOS HP computer? Joe >-- >Ward Griffiths >"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then >you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor > > From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Feb 18 23:29:35 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Classic Calculator: Value? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990218170852.009484c0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Feb 18, 99 05:08:52 pm Message-ID: <199902190529.VAA09139@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Bruce: You need to check out the Museum of HP Calculators. I have the URL upstairs, will email it to you before I go to sleep. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 19 00:33:41 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: <36CCD59F.5727CACE@netcom.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Stan Perkins wrote: > > The DC-100 cartridges are not preformatted, and will work in the HP-85, > 9815, 9825, etc. The 9144 (and 9145) require a preformatted DC-600 style > cartridge. The 9142 can format a blank DC-600 cartridge, but the format > is not compatible with the 9144/9145. > > One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a > long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside > the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and > cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the > BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory > area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors > and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85 > and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner. > Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be > damaged in this way if they're old enough. > Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across - from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use, and certainly broken drive bands, but... - don From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 19 00:49:15 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218235227.30775fb2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > At 02:05 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >HP was fond of formatting hard drives at 256 bytes/sector. That is likely > >the case with your ST-419. > > Yes, this one uses 256 bytes/sector but wouldn't reformatting it take > care of that? I would think so if it does its format in the same way that the CP/M machines that I am familiar with do, Joe. That is, they do both low level and regular format simultaneously. Some smarter (later) drives resis that kind of thing, but I do not think that an ST-251 qualifies! - don From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 19 00:53:19 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218235455.30775b64@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > At 02:25 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >> Security concerns? > > > >Precisely. In fact I believe that this is standard drive decomissioning > >procedure. I've seen entire pallets of drives mutilated in just that > >fashion at Berman. > > Standard for who? US DOD requires they be dissolved in acid. Drilling > would certainly be safer, cheaper and faster but not totally secure. > > Joe I picked up an ST-157N at a swapmeet sometime back with a sticker on it indicating that it had been degaussed in accordance with NSA standards. It was rather thorough. They even degaussed the magnets in the spin motor! - don From hydros_by_hall at csi.com Fri Feb 19 02:10:02 1999 From: hydros_by_hall at csi.com (Richard A. Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Call A.P.P.L.E. In-Reply-To: <199902180239.SAA09260@saul9.u.washington.edu> References: <199902180239.SAA09260@saul9.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36cf029e.9172435@smtp.site1.csi.com> Derek, Call A.P.P.L.E. has shrunk to a Seattle area BBS 206-281-8298. There is a lot of PD Apple software on the board. I sell Educational Apple II software. Dick On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:39:56 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >I couldn't send e-mail to you. > >> book. Still, in my paper, Apple Worm (published in the November >> 1986 issue of Call A.P.P.L.E. magazine - as the cover story), I >> make reference to the book. > >That's a name I haven't heard in a while. > >What was your involvement with A.P.P.L.E.? > >I grew up with the Apple ][. (I mostly played games, although I wrote a few >interesting programs which I may still have.) I've lived in Seattle for the >past 16 years, and my family belonged to A.P.P.L.E. We didn't go to many >meetings. I was the main computer user in the family, but I was much too >young to drive; my mom was almost totally uninterested in computers at the >time, and my dad was only slightly interested. > >(Admittedly, I still can't drive, because my vision is not good enough, but >I think you see what I mean. And I only got one good game out of my >parents, which I let them sell -- see below.) > >Still, at one time we had a stack of magazines, a lowercase chip for our >Apple ][+, something else (came in a plastic bag with a white manual, like >the lowercase chip, except the title was in yellow instead of orange... >maybe related to accounting? I don't remember), The Graphics Magician (?) >and its companion program, The Mummy's Curse, and assorted public-domain >disks. This was all from A.P.P.L.E. > >I'm not nearly as Apple-centric as I used to be (for example, I now >appreciate the design of the Atari and Commodore, which I basically sneered >at when I was younger; and I'm experienced enough to understand the ]['s >flaws). But I still feel fond about my Apples. The access to machine >language is still a strong point, the disk system has an admirable design, >and some of the software produced for the ][ still amazes me. And we sold >the software we had and now I'm looking for some replacement items. :( > >-- Derek Apple II educational software http://members.xoom.com/AV_Systems From black at gco.apana.org.au Fri Feb 19 17:51:21 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... References: Message-ID: <36CDF8F8.B0C0F809@gco.apana.org.au> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Lance Lyon wrote: > > VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. > I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a > chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the > bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video > Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith > VZ200? > > It certainly sounds like it, I believe the VZ200 was cloned as something else in England (can't recall off hand the name of it). But the year & keyboard match. Is it a white case ? cheers, Lance From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 19 03:12:44 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... In-Reply-To: <36CDF8F8.B0C0F809@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Lance Lyon wrote: > > VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. > > I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a > > chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the > > bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video > > Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith > > VZ200? > > It certainly sounds like it, I believe the VZ200 was cloned as > something else in England (can't recall off hand the name of it). But > the year & keyboard match. Is it a white case ? cheers, Yes, white case. The keyboard is sort of a brownish color, with the chiclet keys being a lighter brown. Each key has a graphic character associated with it. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Feb 19 06:11:08 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... Message-ID: <000c01be5c00$f0d81140$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> I don't read German But the pictures are perfectly understandable... http://www.zock.com/8-Bit/D_Laser200.HTML >> VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. >> I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a >> chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the >> bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video >> Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith >> VZ200? >> >> > >It certainly sounds like it, I believe the VZ200 was cloned as something else in >England (can't recall off hand the name of it). But the year & keyboard match. Is >it a white case ? >cheers, > Lance > > > From dogas at leading.net Fri Feb 19 06:28:17 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: question about viruses Message-ID: <01be5c03$5447c700$ebc962cf@devlaptop> No... It has been a long while since I read it too but IIRC the article was something like 'How to teach a matchbook to play tic tac toe' - Mike: dogas@leading.net -----Original Message----- From: blstuart@bellsouth.net To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 9:56 PM Subject: Re: question about viruses >In message <01be5b3b$65657aa0$d3c962cf@devlaptop>, "Mike" writes: >>Speaking of _Adikesence of P1_ .... Does anyone know the SciAm issue date >>for the referenced matchbook neural net ??? > >It's been a long time since I read the book (I really should >read it again, now that the subject has come up). But if >he're refering to the article I think, it's by Martin >Gardner. Unfortunately, I can't find a full reference. >(Somewhere I've got a photocopy of it, but I can't find it >right now.) Anyway, I do find that it came from a 1962 issue. > >In the article, Gardner defines (I can't remember if he references >anyone else) a simple game played with six pawns played on a 3x3 >board. Using 24 matchboxes, he shows a learning machine called >Hexapawn Educational Robot (HER). > >I've got a fond spot in my heart for this one of Gardner's >articles. A simplified version was printed under the title >"How to Play Hexapawn" in the collection called *The New Reader's >Digest Treasury for Young Readers,* a copy of which was given to >me by a relative when I was a kid. It sparked my interest in AI >which reached it climax about seven years ago when I defended my >dissertation in machine learning. > >Brian L. Stuart > From guerney at uq.net.au Fri Feb 19 07:06:02 1999 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... Message-ID: <018801be5c08$d397fe80$32f665cb@default> Sellam said: >VZ200, eh? Interesting. Maybe you Oz-nerds can shed some light on this. >I recently acquired a Dynasty Smart Alec Jr. Its a small computer with a >chiclet keyboard. Almost reminds me of a Mattel Aquarius. Anyway, on the >bottom the label reads that its a model VZ200, made by VTech (or Video >Technology) circa 1982. Is this the same thing perhaps as a Dick Smith >VZ200? As Andrew Davie said, seems so. I have the VZ200 and VZ300 as sold by Dick Smith, and the VZ 200 manual says copyright Video Technology 1983 on the first page. To all "Oz-nerds" (as opposed to Yank-nerds or Limey-nerds?:) - in the book "Programming the Dick Smith Electronics VZ300 Personal Computer" by Tim Hartnell, there is a section on attaching a disk drive (Cat X-7302) via a floppy disk controller (X-7304) which can take two drives. You also need the 16K memory expansion (X-7306). I have the latter, but I have never laid eyes on a VZ disk drive. I assume they are rare - if you had the sort of money I expect they wanted for them in 1986-7 (the system units were still being advertised in Aust Personal Computer in June 1987 for $A169 including datacasette and 4 programs) you would have bought a better computer! The boot screen with the disk drive attached is supposed to say VIDEO TECHNOLOGY DOS BASIC V1.2 READY So has anyone ever seen that? Phil in Brisbane, Australia. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 08:56:40 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: bad tapes was Re: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: References: <36CCD59F.5727CACE@netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219085640.304fc06e@intellistar.net> At 10:33 PM 2/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Stan Perkins wrote: > >> >> The DC-100 cartridges are not preformatted, and will work in the HP-85, >> 9815, 9825, etc. The 9144 (and 9145) require a preformatted DC-600 style >> cartridge. The 9142 can format a blank DC-600 cartridge, but the format >> is not compatible with the 9144/9145. >> >> One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a >> long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside >> the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and >> cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the >> BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory >> area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors >> and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85 >> and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner. >> Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be >> damaged in this way if they're old enough. >> > >Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across - >from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is >towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive >band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use, >and certainly broken drive bands, but... > - don I don't think it's due to the belts. I've had DEC tapes and others with broken bands that didn't cause the media to flake off. Only the HP tapes have the flaking problem AFIK. I have a bunch of new HP tapes that have good bands but some of them still have the flaking problem. It just seems to be characteristic of HP tapes. Joe From stan at netcom.com Fri Feb 19 08:06:54 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed References: Message-ID: <36CD6FFE.8990184A@netcom.com> Don Maslin wrote: [snip...] > > > > One caveat on buying used DC-100 tapes: when the tapes are stored for a > > long time and not regularly wound and rewound, the "rubber band" inside > > the cartridge (that actually moves the tape) can damage the oxide and > > cause it to lift from the tape backing. Usually the oxide comes off the > > BOT area of the cartridge, and not only does this remove the directory > > area, but the now transparent area of the tape confuses the EOT sensors > > and makes the tape totally unusable. Probably 90% or more of the HP-85 > > and HP 9825 tapes I've found at swap meets are damaged in this manner. > > Even tapes that have never been used and are still shrink wrapped may be > > damaged in this way if they're old enough. > > > > Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across - > from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is > towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive > band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use, > and certainly broken drive bands, but... > - don Don, Looking at a DC-100 cartridge, both sides of the tape look about equally glossy. I assumed that the oxide side was on the "outside" becasue that is the surface where the R/W head contacts the tape. Even if my assumption is incorrect, it may just be the continued pressure of the drive band against the layers of tape that causes the oxide to stick to adjacent layers and peel off. What I *do* know is that the oxide does peel off in areas corresponding to the location of the drive band. Stan From max82 at surfree.com Fri Feb 19 09:23:15 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: >Try to get the OS278 teledisk or putr formatted disk images for the >DMII/III. the DMII earlier machine is compatable and uses the same disks. OK, I got the boot disk, it starts with an OS278 splash screen, and lets me do basic stuff. However, I still have no idea how to use any of the programs. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From bill at chipware.com Fri Feb 19 10:03:37 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <19990218.202257.241.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <000001be5c21$68b04050$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > I went down to the junkyard near where I worked, and > managed to turn not one, not two, but *three* > HP 9133XV's! There were also "V"'s a "D", and an "H". > > I grabbed one of the XV's, and plan to test it with my > 9816. If the platters are in good condix, would you be > interested? I could even just pull the HDD unit (14.8Mb :) > and send *that* if you like! If you could grab the rest of those, I'd like to put a hard drive on my 150. It's running from a 9121 right now... Thanks, Bill Sudbrink bill@chipware.com From msg at computerpro.com Fri Feb 19 10:10:21 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler References: <199902190224.UAA00057@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <36CD8CEC.A6C5D0B5@computerpro.com> Please consider scanning it (if OCR is a problem, do TIFF's and compress 'em) and make it available. We will gladly do it if you don't have time. Music programs using radiated RF are of special interest here; I wrote one which allows playing preprogrammed tunes as well as using the upper-row function keys as a keyboard (realtime and record)for a Wang 700 calculator (we'll make it available on the net at some point). The music programs for the CDC 160 series, IBM 1620, and others worked well with AM radios, some machines did better on FM (depends on shielding and clock speed). Some systems (eg. CDC 1604, upper and lower 3000, etc.) used the console speaker for better fidelity. And of course there were a slew (forgive the pun) of line-printer 'singing' programs for many machines. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > I have a listing (green bar) of the PDP 8/e and /l music compiler. Is > this something of value to someone, or has this already been archived > someplace? > > As far as I know, this may have been written here at the U of Minnesota. > > I assume the Pascal Compiler that was written here is already available > someplace (it was once distributed by Decus). I have the original > floppies that were submitted to decus and returned by decus. > > -Lawrence LeMay From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 10:31:18 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler In-Reply-To: <36CD8CEC.A6C5D0B5@computerpro.com> from "Michael Grigoni" at Feb 19, 99 10:10:21 am Message-ID: <199902191631.IAA31220@saul5.u.washington.edu> > The music programs for the CDC 160 series, IBM 1620, and others > worked well with AM radios, some machines did better on FM (depends > on shielding and clock speed). Some systems (eg. CDC 1604, upper and > lower 3000, etc.) used the console speaker for better fidelity. Do you have any information about music programs for the 1620? (The Computer Museum History Center is restoring their 1620. I wonder if it will be ready by VCF 3.0?) -- Derek From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Feb 19 10:37:53 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: DECMate III In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > >Try to get the OS278 teledisk or putr formatted disk images for the > >DMII/III. the DMII earlier machine is compatable and uses the same disks. > > OK, I got the boot disk, it starts with an OS278 splash screen, and lets > me do basic stuff. However, I still have no idea how to use any of the > programs. The same site you got the disk from is also a DOC site. There are many docs available for OS278. Generally the utilities are somewhat dos like but the syntax and options are far more limiting. Allison From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 19 10:55:42 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler In-Reply-To: <36CD8CEC.A6C5D0B5@computerpro.com> from Michael Grigoni at "Feb 19, 1999 10:10:21 am" Message-ID: <199902191655.KAA00252@thorin.cs.umn.edu> The problem, besides the fact that its on wide green-bar paper, is that it was printed using a somewhat poor printer. It kinda looks somewhat like a teletype 33 printout, with some character strikes being at an angle, thus the top part of some characters is very faint, etc. -Lawrence LeMay > Please consider scanning it (if OCR is a problem, do TIFF's and compress > 'em) and make it available. We will gladly do it if you don't have > time. > > Music programs using radiated RF are of special interest here; I wrote > one which allows playing preprogrammed tunes as well as using the > upper-row function keys as a keyboard (realtime and record)for a Wang > 700 calculator (we'll make it available on the net at some point). > > The music programs for the CDC 160 series, IBM 1620, and others > worked well with AM radios, some machines did better on FM (depends > on shielding and clock speed). Some systems (eg. CDC 1604, upper and > lower 3000, etc.) used the console speaker for better fidelity. > And of course there were a slew (forgive the pun) of line-printer > 'singing' programs for many machines. > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > I have a listing (green bar) of the PDP 8/e and /l music compiler. Is > > this something of value to someone, or has this already been archived > > someplace? > > > > As far as I know, this may have been written here at the U of Minnesota. > > > > I assume the Pascal Compiler that was written here is already available > > someplace (it was once distributed by Decus). I have the original > > floppies that were submitted to decus and returned by decus. > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 19 11:05:12 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler In-Reply-To: <199902191655.KAA00252@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: <36CD8CEC.A6C5D0B5@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990219110512.00cbd370@vpwisfirewall> At 10:55 AM 2/19/99 -0600, you wrote: >The problem, besides the fact that its on wide green-bar paper, is >that it was printed using a somewhat poor printer. Does this music program have a name or a place in history? - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 19 11:13:19 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... In-Reply-To: <000c01be5c00$f0d81140$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Francois wrote: > I don't read German But the pictures are perfectly understandable... > http://www.zock.com/8-Bit/D_Laser200.HTML That's it! The second one is more like the color of mine. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 19 11:29:50 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990219110512.00cbd370@vpwisfirewall> from John Foust at "Feb 19, 1999 11:05:12 am" Message-ID: <199902191729.LAA00489@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > At 10:55 AM 2/19/99 -0600, you wrote: > >The problem, besides the fact that its on wide green-bar paper, is > >that it was printed using a somewhat poor printer. > > Does this music program have a name or a place in history? > > - John > Its called the Music Compiler, apparently. Written in 1975 by Rich Wilson at the University of Minnesota. This listing was apparently printed in 1977, and a note was written on the cover dated march 3, 1978. The listing contains 4 things: 1) music.pa for 8e 32K OS/8 2) bitmap 3) music.pa for 8l 8k papertape 4) bitmap -Lawrence LeMay From jpero at cgocable.net Fri Feb 19 11:36:09 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Classic: LTE 286 ram expansion 4.6MB or 8.6MB? In-Reply-To: <01BE57A4.AC67F620@slip-32-100-187-199.oh.us.ibm.net> Message-ID: <199902191733.MAA19340@mail.cgocable.net> Hi all! I found couple of LTE 286 notebooks all stuffed with addons in both but with blown HD's. (Sheesh, Conner HD's are like that!) Plan to replace the nonstandard 3.5" for standard 2.5" IDE drives (Been done that before) but when I peered into ram module can shield holes I see 8 spots more to put 1Mx4bit chips on to give extra 4MB for 8MB instead of piddling 4MB module. Have anyone ever seen LTE 286 with 8.6MB at all? That reminds me of little known LTE 386s/20 that can handle 16MB instead of 10 using pair of 8MB cards plus latest bios. These modules are made by Amkly Systems Inc., 301-128912 Rev A. (C) 1990. (!!) Is there a outfit that still selling those 386SX compatiable in a PLCC 68pin package? That was documented in one of T1600 owner upgrade website somewhere few years ago. BTW, this notebook was made in late '89 early '90's. Wizard From msg at computerpro.com Fri Feb 19 12:57:13 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: PDP8/e /l music compiler References: <199902191631.IAA31220@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36CDB409.18E57645@computerpro.com> Derek Peschel wrote: > > > The music programs for the CDC 160 series, IBM 1620, and others > > worked well with AM radios, some machines did better on FM (depends > > on shielding and clock speed). Some systems (eg. CDC 1604, upper and > > lower 3000, etc.) used the console speaker for better fidelity. > > Do you have any information about music programs for the 1620? (The > Computer Museum History Center is restoring their 1620. I wonder if it will > be ready by VCF 3.0?) > > -- Derek Sure wish I did; my most vivid memories are of a suite of classical pieces I heard on a 1620 at Carleton College (Northfield, MN) including a polyphonic Brandenberg #3. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 19 08:20:46 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: M SoKit 68 Message-ID: <199902191920.OAA12204@smtp.interlog.com> On 17 Feb 99 at 9:29, Arlen Michaels wrote: > I've never heard of the M(icro)SOKit 68, but I'm wondering how many other > enterprising teachers designed their own small systems for training? > > I have a "U of T 6809" board, a teaching aid developed by the University of > Toronto in the early 80s and manufactured for them by a Toronto company. At > one time they were even advertised nationally in one of the Canadian hobby > electronics magazines. It was a single-board system with a monitor/debugger > in eprom, and you'd run it from a terminal. You could develop programs > on-board, or download 6809 code from a host system and run it on the card. > > Does anyone else have one of these? > > Arlen Michaels > > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com > Hi Arlen, nice to see you're still lurking. The manual I have was a 3rd edition dated 1982, (the 2nd 1981) so he must have sold quite a few of these. The company was known as CompuKits and TMK was marketed widely in N. A. His name IIRC Was Jim Reiss. I'll have to see if he's still at my old alma mater. It's possible the one you're talking about was a later model if he joined the Uof T faculty. The built kit looked really neat. Everything was entered from the console by toggle switches or pushbuttons and it had LED indicators. It had provisions to expand memory allowing use of Motorola's MIKBUG monitor ROM to interface with a T-T or RS232 device as well as a provision to add 256 bytes of non-volatile memory. You could expand memory up to 8k x 8 static ram and suggests you use the less expensive and smaller chips like the 2102 rather than the 6810s used in RAM 1 and RAM 2. Would be an interesting project to build one, if I ever get the time. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From black at gco.apana.org.au Sat Feb 20 05:28:27 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... References: <018801be5c08$d397fe80$32f665cb@default> Message-ID: <36CE9C59.C076D41C@gco.apana.org.au> Phil Guerney wrote: > To all "Oz-nerds" (as opposed to Yank-nerds or Limey-nerds?:) - in the book > "Programming the Dick Smith Electronics VZ300 Personal Computer" by Tim > Hartnell, there is a section on attaching a disk drive (Cat X-7302) via a > floppy disk controller (X-7304) which can take two drives. You also need the > 16K memory expansion (X-7306). I have the latter, but I have never laid eyes > on a VZ disk drive. I assume they are rare - if you had the sort of money I > expect they wanted for them in 1986-7 (the system units were still being > advertised in Aust Personal Computer in June 1987 for $A169 including > datacasette and 4 programs) you would have bought a better computer! > > > So has anyone ever seen that? > There's a suspicious looking dual floppy unit at Glenorchy, that although it has no writing on the front, has the cross-hatch pattern that appears underneath the VZ's logo. Might have a closer look, if it is for the VZ, I'll pick it up & forward it to whoever wants it. Lance From musicman38 at mindspring.com Fri Feb 19 15:49:35 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (musicman38@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 Message-ID: <001c01be5c51$be7e30c0$20f2cdcf@server> Do any of you Sanyo experts know if the Sanyo 555 keyboard will work on the Sanyo 550 computer ? Thanks Phil... From bill at chipware.com Fri Feb 19 16:00:43 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <001c01be5c51$be7e30c0$20f2cdcf@server> Message-ID: <000101be5c53$4c2b7530$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > Do any of you Sanyo experts know if the Sanyo 555 keyboard > will work on the Sanyo 550 computer ? > Thanks Phil... Yes, The 555 just indicates that it came from the factory with two drives instead of one. Bill Sudbrink From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 15:08:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990218235227.30775fb2@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 18, 99 11:52:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 767 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/71b1afb9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 15:12:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990219000902.3077b3ec@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 19, 99 00:09:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1115 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/1d95e110/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 15:15:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD In-Reply-To: <36CCE872.771E5F0B@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Feb 18, 99 08:28:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/022c4896/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 15:16:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: What the hell is this!!! was Re: I need a ST-419 hard dr In-Reply-To: <030101be5bc1$0fd16730$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> from "Joseph S. Barrera III" at Feb 18, 99 08:33:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/8393f392/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 15:20:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Feb 18, 99 10:33:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 762 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/def2a7cb/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 19 17:23:21 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Tomy Tutor page updates Message-ID: <199902192323.PAA13442@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/df993b8e/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 19:46:55 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219194655.456f1cc0@intellistar.net> Today I just visited with an old friend that I haven't seen in years and found out the he's an OLD computer buff. Turns out that he has a house full of OLD computers. SWTPC, Altair, Alpha Micro, Lisa and more. Today I picked up a MITs 8" disk drive for the Altair and an Alpha Micro computer. He's promised me more including another Altair computer and "nearly one of everything WSWTPC sold". Does anyone have docs for the Altair 8" drive? I need to find out if everything is here and how to hook it up. Does anyone have any good URLs for the Alpha Micro stuff? I don't know what all these cards and stuff are. There's some very strange looking stuff in it. Does anyone have any pointers for fixing the power supply in an Apple Lisa? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 19:49:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day PS MINC Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219194915.2f5fff28@intellistar.net> BTW does anyone have a MINC (sp?) computer? This guy says that he used to have one and he still has a lot of disks for it. Joe From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 19 17:58:28 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > Stan, how can that happen? Every cartridge tape that I have run across - > > from DC-100 to DC-2120 and beyond - is spooled such that the oxide face is > > towards the hub of the spool and NEVER comes in contact with the drive > > band. I have had tape layers stick together from old age and lack of use, > > and certainly broken drive bands, but... > > Just looked at a couple of tape cartridges - a DC300XLP (3M brand if it > matters) and an HP cartridge from my 85. > > In both cases, the outside of the tape - the surface that faces the > recording head - is also the outside of the spool. I think it's > reasonable to assume that the side that touches the head is the > oxide-coated side, and thus it's the oxide-coated side that also contacts > the drive belt. > > -tony > Geez! You guys are dead right and I am dead wrong. It seems like a strange way to do it though. - don From max82 at surfree.com Fri Feb 19 18:10:25 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: DECMate III Message-ID: I'm afraid that I haven't found any documentation that could help me understand how to use OS278 or PAL. A few specific questions, if there's no online users' guide of any sort: How do I access the second floppy drive? How do I make an empty file? Please give me an example of what command you would enter to make a PAL 'Hello, World!' program, save it, and run it. Thanks --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Feb 19 18:11:47 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day PS MINC Message-ID: <012001be5c66$ffbe3e30$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> Yes. It is a PDP11 based system with A/D and D/A modules. I have 2 here mostly complete. (missing the RX02's) Dan -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 7:02 PM Subject: My Lucky Day PS MINC >BTW does anyone have a MINC (sp?) computer? This guy says that he used to >have one and he still has a lot of disks for it. > > Joe > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 18:20:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Tomy Tutor page updates In-Reply-To: <199902192323.PAA13442@oa.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Feb 19, 99 03:23:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 282 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/0e0359c4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 18:25:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Feb 19, 99 03:58:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1390 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/4add5545/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 19 18:55:20 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Tomy Tutor page updates In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 20, 99 00:20:30 am Message-ID: <199902200055.QAA09258@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 673 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990219/b579c503/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 19 18:42:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day PS MINC In-Reply-To: <012001be5c66$ffbe3e30$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Feb 19, 99 07:11:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/d5905b95/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 19 19:24:46 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 Belts needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > Geez! You guys are dead right and I am dead wrong. It seems like a > > strange way to do it though. > > It makes the mechanical design much simpler. The outside of the tape (on > the front edge of the cartridge) has to be the oxide side, or the head > would have to fit behind the tape somehow. And having the tape that way > round means that the simplest layout of the cartridge will have it > spooled oxide-side out. > > I can't think of an obvious cassette or cartridge that has the oxide on > the inside of the spools. Compact cassette, mini/micro cassettes, N1500, > V2000, VHS, Betamax video, 8mm video, etc all have the oxide on the > outside, I think. > > Hang on. What about TK50s? They only have one spool in the cartridge, so > there's no mechanical reason to have the oxide one side or the other - > once you've grabbed the leader and threded it through the drive, you > could have the heads positioned on either side. I don't have a TK50 here > to check, but I think that one does wind with the oxide on the inside, > actually. I just checked. The oxide is on the outside also. - don > > > > > > -tony > > From joe at barrera.org Fri Feb 19 19:30:10 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: Does anyone have a spare keyboard cable for a Commodore SX-64? References: Message-ID: <069901be5c70$9385bae0$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> Does anyone have a spare keyboard cable for a Commodore SX-64 that they'd be willing to part with? If so, please contact Bill at lowlix@aol.com. Thanks, - Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Feb 19 19:34:44 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:16 2005 Subject: trade proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001be5c71$31cf94a0$a7f438cb@a.davie> I've recently been discussing a sale/trade with a gent who has an old Hewlett Packard HP65 calculator and accessories. Unfortunately for me, his enquiries on the 'net have indicated to him that this machine is way out of reach for me, as far as cash offers go. But I asked about trades, and here's his WANT list... * 'ChipSite' or 'PinSite' programming adapter for the Data I/O 'UniSite' system. If PinSite, it MUST come with its positioning shoes. * Additional pin driver boards for the UniSite. * RAID-pluggable disk tray for the Hewlett-Packard NetServer LM 4D/66 system. I don't care if it's new, used, has a drive or not, or is painted bright purple as long as it is electrically and mechanically sound. * Rack-mountable PC case. * Pentium-class PCI/EISA ( NOTE -- E I S A -- Enhanced Industry Standard Architecture, NOT ISA) combo motherboard, at least Socket 5, prefer Socket 7, with a working PS/2 mouse port. * Decent general-coverage HF receiver or transceiver, prefer mil-spec, such as the Racal units that were floating around for a while. Cheap commercial units, such as the Radio Shack stuff, are NOT of interest. * Decent (doesn't have to be perfect) RF service monitor. One of the older Motorola or IFR units would be fine. If there is anyone on the list who has any of the above FOR TRADE, please contact me adavie@mad.scientist.com and let's see if we can arrange a trade. I have several Australian Microbees, VZ-200 and VZ-300 computers, S100 items, an original PC (64K) board, and lots of other odds and ends, including some of the old books with lots of pics (eg: The S-100 and other micro buses, Apple Interfacing, etc). Thanks A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? ? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 21:26:01 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 In-Reply-To: <001c01be5c51$be7e30c0$20f2cdcf@server> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219212601.0c4f062c@intellistar.net> Phil, Yes they will. Any of the Sanyo keyboards of that type should work. If I remember my model numbers correctly the only difference was that the 555 had double sided drives. Either that or it came with two drives instead of one. Joe At 04:49 PM 2/19/99 -0500, you wrote: >Do any of you Sanyo experts know if the Sanyo 555 keyboard >will work on the Sanyo 550 computer ? >Thanks Phil... > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 19 21:43:16 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: I need a ST-419 hard drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990219000902.3077b3ec@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990219214316.309f4090@intellistar.net> At 09:12 PM 2/19/99 +0000, you wrote: >> >Are you sure you're really doing a low-level format? >> >> No, I'm not sure. I'm just using the initialize command in HP BASIC and >> the format command in HP CPM. That's the only "tools" they give you. I >> have no idea how to do a low level format on these. > >Hmmm... It sounds to me like you're only doing a high-level format. > >Incidentally, does anyone know what the internal DIP switches on a 9133, >etc, do? I've heard that you can put larger hard disks in to these units >and set the DIP switches correctly, and it'll work. Never managed to >figure out how, though. I do one some models. The jumpers on the back of the board on the V and XV models determine how it's "partitioned". I think the settings of the jumpers are the only difference in the V and XV model. Some systems like the HP 150 and HP 85 can't handle a full 5 meg drive so changing the jumpers makes the drive look like four 1.15 Meg drives. I have seen some other models (possible the H model) of the 9133/9134 that have jumpers marked 10M/20M. Those look like they're to select a 10 or 20 Meg hard drive but I haven't tried it. You need to know what drive geometery it expects before you could upgrade it. You should be able to get the service manual for the drive from HP. FWIW I've started keeping record of the drives that I find inside the boxs, that may eventually shed some light on this. BTW anyone have a Vertex V130 drive to spare? I need one for a 7958A. It has some strange geometery, something like 980 cylinders and 3 heads. >And the idea of disassembling a few K of 6809 code (there's a 6809 in >these machines) doesn't appeal either ;-) > >> >The 251 is (AFAIK) soft-sectored. The 17 sectors is something that's >> >specified when you low-level format it. > >That's really part of the low-level format IMHO. The ST251, etc has >nothing recorded on any surface at the factory. You can essentially put >what you like there as part of the low-level format. If it has to be LL formatted then I'm screwed! Even if I found another 419 it may not work. I suppose there may be a device dependent command to LL format it but I have no idea what it is. If I knew what the command was then I could send it using the HP-IB bus analyzer. Joe From cmcmanis at freegate.com Fri Feb 19 19:51:29 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: DEC manufacturer? Message-ID: <4.1.19990219174949.00a029f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Does anyone know if you can purchase "handles" like the ones that appear on DEC OMNIBUS boards? (flip chip handles). One could drill out some old boards and make them but I'd prefer to have a source of new ones if possible. --Chuck From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 19 19:52:04 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day PS MINC Message-ID: <199902200152.AA27472@world.std.com> >BTW does anyone have a MINC (sp?) computer? This guy says that he used >to have one and he still has a lot of disks for it. I wish I had a MINC... I have a couple of Mini-MINCs (as the PDT-11/150 with the EIS/FIS was referred to, apparently). It is a pdp-11, so it runs RT-11. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 19 19:59:45 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day PS MINC Message-ID: <199902200159.AA27251@world.std.com> >Either LSI11/03 or 11/23 CPU card M7264 or M8186, respectively >64K RAM (I forget the name - it's the standard M8044 card - is that an >MSV11?). Maybe more than one on an 11/23 system MSV11-D was 32KW (64KB) Ram (up to 4 can be used) >DLV11-J quad serial port (one for the console, 3 for the user) M8043 >LPV11 printer port M8027 >IBV11 GPIB interface Don't remember off-hand... there was no standard RT-11 device handler for it... >Either RXV11 (RX01 floppy drives), RXV21 (RX02 floppy drives) or RLV11 >(hard disk) controller RXV11 M7946 RXV21 M8029 RLV11 M8013/M8014 (Q/CD) >In the far left slot there's a BDV11 boot/terminator card. M8012 Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri Feb 19 21:10:37 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: List of bargain spots In-Reply-To: <36CD2CC7.EDF98668@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: I am working on a list of neat places to find bargains. A regional thing, mostly so that when traveling I won't have to spend 3 hours with a phone book to find some good spots. The list will NEVER be made public, but I will send it out to people who send me some places local to them. Ideally I would really like for most people to be as open in this as I plan to be, and share ALL of the good local spots they know of. I know SoCal pretty well, and have about a dozen places, and I have about a dozen other people who have added to that. The typical information I would want is something like the following; Fullerton Calif. Bargain Warehouse 714.871.3500 located on Orangethorpe between State College and Raymond/East street, northwest of the 57/91 interchange. Auction two nights a week, retail store everyday. Carries product returns/shipping damage/ and closeouts for CostCo. Clothing is a daily good deal, and amount and items subject to discount changes daily. Auction is the only good time for most computer or electronics, inspect carefully, be informed before bidding, but computer items often sell for very low bids like 50% of current retail. Yes I know this has nothing to do with old computers, but you can't really expect me to reveal the local place that recently sold some MicroVaxen for about $25 a pop, and last visit still had the Systems Industries tape drives. Likewise I assure everyone that I already know about eBay et al. I would rather know about the dumpster behind X on the second Tuesday of the month than just about anything online. Email me DIRECTLY, do NOT just reply to the list. Use my handy bit of html if you can. mailto:mikeford@netwiz.net?subject=BargainSpots From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 19 22:28:22 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: My Lucky Day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990219194655.456f1cc0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > Does anyone have docs for the Altair 8" drive? I need to find out if > everything is here and how to hook it up. Does anyone have any good URLs > for the Alpha Micro stuff? I don't know what all these cards and stuff > are. There's some very strange looking stuff in it. www.alphamicro.com They're still around making stuff. Their tech support guys are pretty cool about answering questions about old stuff, and they even indicated they would still help me out on this 68010-based box of theirs (circa 1986) that I picked up a little while back. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From musicman38 at mindspring.com Fri Feb 19 11:08:28 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Email Question References: <001c01be5c51$be7e30c0$20f2cdcf@server> Message-ID: <36CD9A8C.6683CFFD@mindspring.com> I've noticed that when send email to Classiccmp my email address shows up instead of my name. However others users have their name instead of their email address. Is this a setting on my end, or is it the way I am setup on this forum.? If its on my end how do I change it? Phil... From erd at infinet.com Fri Feb 19 23:22:37 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: DEC manufacturer? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990219174949.00a029f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Feb 19, 99 05:51:29 pm Message-ID: <199902200522.AAA07404@user2.infinet.com> > > Does anyone know if you can purchase "handles" like the ones that appear on > DEC OMNIBUS boards? (flip chip handles). One could drill out some old > boards and make them but I'd prefer to have a source of new ones if possible. > I don't have the plastic handles, but I do have an abundant quantity of metal hex and some quad handles (Unibus and Qbus, mostly, but there were a few Omnibus hex-height cards for the -8/a) These have no numbers stamped on the handle as they were ordered from DEC Direct for third-arty boards. I have rivets, too. If anyone is looking for metal DEC handles, let me know how many you want and we'll make a deal. -ethan From erd at infinet.com Fri Feb 19 23:24:03 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Does anyone have a spare keyboard cable for a Commodore SX-64? In-Reply-To: <069901be5c70$9385bae0$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> from "Joseph S. Barrera III" at Feb 19, 99 05:30:10 pm Message-ID: <199902200524.AAA07433@user2.infinet.com> > > Does anyone have a spare keyboard cable for a Commodore SX-64 that they'd be > willing to part with? If so, please contact Bill at lowlix@aol.com. > > Thanks, Isn't that the trick? I got a cheap SX-64 once because someone else had tried to fix the keyboard. Fortunately for me, I already had a spare. They are *very* tough to find in working shape, not already attached to the computer. -ethan From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 20 00:22:31 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Email Question (fwd) Message-ID: Actually, I see both name and e-mail address as you can see below. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:08:28 -0500 From: Phil Clayton Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Email Question I've noticed that when send email to Classiccmp my email address shows up instead of my name. However others users have their name instead of their email address. Is this a setting on my end, or is it the way I am setup on this forum.? If its on my end how do I change it? Phil... From tcropper at swbell.net Sat Feb 20 13:04:45 1999 From: tcropper at swbell.net (Toby Cropper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: old Compaq parts Message-ID: <01be5d03$e0f091e0$ce1bc1cf@toby1> How can I join your mailing list? I am looking for old Compaq Portable II parts. Any suggestions? Toby Cropper tcropper@swbell.net (210) 674-9395 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/fb7b57d3/attachment.html From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Sat Feb 20 01:17:40 1999 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Latest finds.... Message-ID: <01be5ca1$19f79aa0$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: Lance Lyon To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, 20 February 1999 7:05 Subject: Re: Latest finds.... > > >Phil Guerney wrote: > >> To all "Oz-nerds" (as opposed to Yank-nerds or Limey-nerds?:) - in the book >> "Programming the Dick Smith Electronics VZ300 Personal Computer" by Tim >> Hartnell, there is a section on attaching a disk drive (Cat X-7302) via a >> floppy disk controller (X-7304) which can take two drives. You also need the >> 16K memory expansion (X-7306 I seem to recall seeing a memory expansion for a VZ computer in a s/h shop just up the road. I'll take a look and post the info if anyone is interested. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 20 01:35:49 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Email Question (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might be the e-mail client being used. When I'm reading my e-mail with 'elm' from my shell account it shows the author of my messages as being 'To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" ', while in Eudora/Mac it shows them with my name. Zane >Actually, I see both name and e-mail address as you can see below. > > - don > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:08:28 -0500 >From: Phil Clayton >Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Subject: Email Question > >I've noticed that when send email to Classiccmp my email address >shows up instead of my name. >However others users have their name instead of their email address. >Is this a setting on my end, or is it the way I am setup on this forum.? > >If its on my end how do I change it? >Phil... | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Feb 20 01:38:23 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Sanyo 550 References: <001c01be5c51$be7e30c0$20f2cdcf@server> Message-ID: <36CE666D.7304126C@bigfoot.com> The Sanyo MBC-55x-x series are all the same for the most part. The 550 is a single sided, single drive unit, the 550-2 has a single double sided drive. The 555 was 2 single sided drives and the 555-2 was dual double sided drives. These numbers applied only to the item as shipped from the factory, the model didn't necessarily change when the owner added or changed drives. NRI included these machines with their master course in microcomputers & microprocessors, right after the Tandy TRS-80 model 4D wa phased out. They were great people to offer students a cost reduced second drive, even though the box it came in from the factory showed the unit as a dual drive to begin with. I believe all they did was order a ton of second drive bay fillers and take out the second to resell to the dumb students at $100 more. Imagine a $100 tag onn a Teac FD-55B! What a rip when I dump dozens in scrap or donate many of them. Whe I do sell them I get roughly $2 to $5 each dependant upon condition. Answer, yes the silver keyboard with black keys and no ALT will fit any of the MBC-55x-x units, also known as the "Silver Box" (not by me though). The serial port add-on was an 8251 UART, not the standard 8250 for IBM/compats so patches are needed for communications programs. There is still a BBS with *some* of the patches and anyp MBC-55x programs, called the First Sanyo Opus. The number is (412) 856-1428. Should still be up, called it just last month and it was. You have to look for the Sanyo specific files area. musicman38@mindspring.com wrote: > Do any of you Sanyo experts know if the Sanyo 555 keyboard > will work on the Sanyo 550 computer ? > Thanks Phil... From wanderer at bos.nl Sat Feb 20 07:12:59 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Latest finds References: <199902200159.AA27251@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36CEB4DB.6C9D@bos.nl> Hello gang, I just unloaded and sorted out 5 boxes of documentation and a little cabinet with 2 RL02's. The documentation : a full set of RSX-11M 4.0 binders an incomplete (?) of RT-11 5.1 manuals, I got no's 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 2D, 3A and 3B (which ones do I miss besides 2C?) a set of boxes for the Professional 300 (CPM/80, HD system, diskette system, Install & maintenance and Communication disk) a set of 7 grey binders for the Professional (Developpers Toolkit 4.1) a grey binder for the Professional (Dev. Graphics Toolkit) an incomplete set of MINC-11 docs, missing book 4 and 6 from the set of 8 (dates 1978) Some course books for RT-11 (User, Programmer and Programmer Administrator). The 2 RL02's worked without a problem (except the squeeking sounds when they got started, I guess they didn't run for a while :=). One of these drives has a little switch inside which allows you to use the drive either as an RL01 or as an RL02! With some luck I might be able to pick up 1.5 Kennedy tape drive and a genuine DEC tape unit (don't know it's model etc). Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Feb 20 08:09:17 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: RT-11 manuals Was: Re: Latest finds In-Reply-To: <36CEB4DB.6C9D@bos.nl> References: <199902200159.AA27251@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990220085111.009aa8d0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:12 PM 2/20/99 -0100, wanderer said something like: >Hello gang, > >I just unloaded and sorted out 5 boxes of documentation and a little >cabinet with 2 RL02's. > >The documentation : > a full set of RSX-11M 4.0 binders > an incomplete (?) of RT-11 5.1 manuals, I got no's 1A, 1B, 2A, > 2B, 2D, 3A and 3B (which ones do I miss besides 2C?) Hi Ed, I have a set of RT-11 5.1 manuals too. In vol. 1A do you have the "Guide to RT-11 Documentation". That gives a complete inventory of the manual set on page 2. There should be one for the RSX-11M set too in its respective "Guide to..." manual. Here's my RT-11 5.1 volume list: 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3A and finally, 3B. You apparently are missing vol. 1C which is the System Generation Guide, an important vol. if you plan to do much work with RT-11. Therefore, just vols 2C and 1C are missing from your set. The Dutch (or European) manual set may be somewhat different. There is no vol. 2D in my 5.1 set. 2C has the System Message Manual and the Keypad Editor User's Guide in a single binder. Could there be a different editor or something in the Dutch/European set causing a volume 2D? Let me know if you have other questions on my RT-11 set Ed. Megan, have you any comment on the diffs between my 5.1 set and Ed's? Big congratulations on scoring this haul of documentation! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From steverob at hotoffice.com Sat Feb 20 08:43:43 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts... References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19990218234118.4bb71766@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36CECA1F.8E055164@hotoffice.com> Great! I just took the hp3000 off the truck and will probably need some pointers. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65595584 BTW: There are about 6 different HP newsgroups. They do get a lot of traffic but most of it is for newer HP stuff. Steve Robertson Joe wrote: > > At 12:33 PM 2/18/99 -0800, Stan P. wrote: > >To all, > > > > > > Hi Stan. When did you join this list? > > Folks, we have another HP expert here now. Ask Stan all your HP questions. > > Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 20 11:26:43 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts... In-Reply-To: <36CECA1F.8E055164@hotoffice.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990218145654.305f8726@intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19990218234118.4bb71766@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990220112643.3067de14@intellistar.net> At 09:43 AM 2/20/99 -0500, Steve wrote: >Great! I just took the hp3000 off the truck and will probably need some >pointers. >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65595584 Wow, that looks like quite a system. Better watch out, Stan likes 3000s and he might be paying you a midnight visit! Me, I can't even spell 3000 :-) Joe > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 09:42:01 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Alpha Micro (was My Lucky Day!) Message-ID: <19990220154801364.AAA137@fuj03> This outfit built useful microcomputers at a time when microcomputers were really not that useful to the average person. Imagine that! Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: My Lucky Day! > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 9:28 PM > > On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > Does anyone have docs for the Altair 8" drive? I need to find out if > > everything is here and how to hook it up. Does anyone have any good URLs > > for the Alpha Micro stuff? I don't know what all these cards and stuff > > are. There's some very strange looking stuff in it. > > www.alphamicro.com > > They're still around making stuff. Their tech support guys are pretty > cool about answering questions about old stuff, and they even indicated > they would still help me out on this 68010-based box of theirs (circa > 1986) that I picked up a little while back. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 09:45:31 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: XEBEC external hard drive Message-ID: <19990220154801364.AAB137@fuj03> Some weeks ago, I promised someone on this forum the XEBEC hard disk drive I had removed from an enclosure I bought at a local thrift store. I couldn't find it that day and indicated I'd have to do the easter egg hunt, but now have lost track of who asked me for it. Any takers? Dick . From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 09:50:57 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Cromemco Dazzler Message-ID: <19990220154801364.AAC137@fuj03> I was digging throught the pile of "stuff" from days of old, and find I have a board-set (S-100) which is a Cromemco (remember them?) Dazzler video board set. I don't remember using this for anything. What probably happened is that I read the doc's and determined it was indadequate for my purpose and set it aside . . . the box (the cardboard box in which it was pacakged by Cromemco, looks like sh*t but the contents were apparently unharmed by the passage of 20 years, of which most were spent in the junk pile. Is anyone interested? Dick From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Feb 20 10:30:40 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Cromemco Dazzler In-Reply-To: <19990220154801364.AAC137@fuj03> from Richard Erlacher at "Feb 20, 1999 08:50:57 am" Message-ID: <199902201630.KAA01052@thorin.cs.umn.edu> [Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > I was digging throught the pile of "stuff" from days of old, and find I > have a board-set (S-100) which is a Cromemco (remember them?) Dazzler video > board set. I don't remember using this for anything. What probably > happened is that I read the doc's and determined it was indadequate for my > purpose and set it aside . . . the box (the cardboard box in which it was > pacakged by Cromemco, looks like sh*t but the contents were apparently > unharmed by the passage of 20 years, of which most were spent in the junk > pile. The Dazzler produces a 128X128 resolution color raster image on a color monitor, or TV set if you use an RF modulator. It was the second board that Cromemco produced. > > Is anyone interested? > Sounds like something interesting to put in this Cromemco computer that i'm upgrading, so i'd be interested in it. Do you have the documentation, or any of the software (the game of life, kaleidoscope, dazzle writer) -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 10:54:34 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Cromemco Dazzler Message-ID: <19990220165208846.AAA229@fuj03> There are supposed to be three of these board sets, though I saw one or two for the first time in 20 years yesterday. One appears to be complete with doc's and software, though the others, which I know were "played with" by my associates, may not be as complete, and some duplicating may be called for. I'm pretty certain that I can lay hands on two of these sets more or less right away, including one set of doc's and software, which I believe I held in my hands yesterday. The quandary arises out of the fact that there is at least one other board set, and i don't have a running CP/M box, since I'm not a collector. I've had a couple of modest cash offers, but would rather leave $$$ out of the equation if possible. If you have anything swappable, I'm interested in single-board computers, preferably small and simple, with documentation and firmware so I can USE them for something. If you're a Cromemco addict, you may be interested in the fact that I have a couple of functional PERSCI floppy drives, which were commonly available (though EXTREMELY expensive at the time) with the Cromemco systems back when Computerland used to sell them. These are single-sided (model 277) drives, of which one is packaged as an external unit complete with power supply, while another enclosure is in some less-than-functional state and extensively disassembled. I've recently looked at the power supply and noted that the regulator circuitry is missing. I also have parts of a third unit which is useable as parts only. What's probably more interesting is that I have the maintenance documents for these PERSCI drives. These are voice-coil-driven rather than stepping-motor-driven units, (for which provision was made on the later Western Digital floppy controllers) capable of stepping microseconds rather than milliseconds. I also have quite a few enclosures, power supplies, cardcages, motherboards, and other boards, mostly CPU's, FDC's, memory and I/O, some as yet unassembled, some under repair, some fully functional. Does this give you any suggestions? regards, Dick ---------- > From: Lawrence LeMay > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Cromemco Dazzler > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:30 AM > > [Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > I was digging throught the pile of "stuff" from days of old, and find I > > have a board-set (S-100) which is a Cromemco (remember them?) Dazzler video > > board set. I don't remember using this for anything. What probably > > happened is that I read the doc's and determined it was indadequate for my > > purpose and set it aside . . . the box (the cardboard box in which it was > > pacakged by Cromemco, looks like sh*t but the contents were apparently > > unharmed by the passage of 20 years, of which most were spent in the junk > > pile. > > The Dazzler produces a 128X128 resolution color raster image on a color > monitor, or TV set if you use an RF modulator. It was the second board > that Cromemco produced. > > > > > Is anyone interested? > > > > Sounds like something interesting to put in this Cromemco computer that i'm > upgrading, so i'd be interested in it. Do you have the documentation, or > any of the software (the game of life, kaleidoscope, dazzle writer) > > -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 11:05:36 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . . Message-ID: <19990220170315865.AAA217@fuj03> I'm trying to make room for a child and her progeny in my basement, hence have moved some items into the carport . . . Since todays weather is good, I'm out sifting through the stuff looking for items of interest, and find I have a MITS modem board. Would this be of interest to anyone? Dick From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 20 11:30:24 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . . In-Reply-To: <19990220170315865.AAA217@fuj03> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'm trying to make room for a child and her progeny in my basement, hence > have moved some items into the carport . . . > > Since todays weather is good, I'm out sifting through the stuff looking for > items of interest, and find I have a MITS modem board. > > Would this be of interest to anyone? Richard, what happened? You were going to consolidate all the stuff in the carport and then determine a total shipping weight so I could figure out how much I owe you for it. Now you are offering up bits & pieces to the list. I thought we'd already had a deal on everything. I am very confused as to why you are doing this. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From gareth.knight2 at which.net Sat Feb 20 12:37:10 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Story time boys and girls (Was Re: I need a ST-419 hard drive) Message-ID: <01b201be5d01$6ea04420$ab5ffea9@gaz> Joe wrote: > No, I'm not sure. I'm just using the initialize command in HP BASIC and >the format command in HP CPM. That's the only "tools" they give you. I >have no idea how to do a low level format on these. This made think of a problem my friend was trying to solve a while ago. His boss asked him to fix a 386 because of a quite spectacular Windows 3.11 crash. My friend couldn't even format the hard drive using the traditional MS-DOS format programs so he tried the Packard Bell diagnostic disk that had come with his old 486 (terrible machine, everything was built into the motherboard). It turned out that it was doing a low-level format which killed the IDE drive. I've never understood why Packard Bell who sold many of their computers to novices would ship something that could damage the hardware. To save face my friend just said the Windows crash had messed up the machine and I let him have one of the 40Mb hard drives I owned at the time. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 12:53:29 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . . Message-ID: <19990220185103495.AAA89@fuj03> My problem stems from the fact that there are WAY too many things for me to handle at once, Sam. You wanted me to pack the stuff and have it shipped via an economical method but which required me to package and haul the stuff some 45 miles to the airport area. I just haven't the resources (personal) or the time to do all this under my present circumstances. What's more, I've had to move TONS more stuff from the basement to the covered storage outside, and it's pissing my neighbors off. Some of them understand, but many don't. Now, if you can think of a workable way which doesn't involve a major outlay on my part, in advance of the fact, and doesn't involve many hours of packing and hauling time, mine, I mean, since I have to pack and haul from inside the house to outside, I'm listening, so to speak. Those ALTOS boxes I bought on your behalf are still in the car, by the way, but I can't open the trunk because I was rear-ended by an illegal alien with no insurance . . . In the meantime, I'm going through the just-now-moved stuff to ensure I don't expose otherwise sensitive and potentially fragile hardware to unfavorable conditions. What this amounts to is looking through the stuff I've had help to haul from the basement in the last day or two, in the dark, and examine it in the daylight, to ensure it retains some of its remaining worth, if I can do anything to that end. Keep in mind that I'm stressed to the MAX right now, because I have a new 30-hour-a-day, 8-day-per-week job for anew client, in addition to all this other headache. What's more, I'd like to avoid the exchange of dollars for anything other than expenses because of the accounting headaches that creates. I had this stuff in two sections of the basement because some of was known to be of some value and therefore worth preserving. That's of less concern to me now than it once was, but it is of some importance to me to avoid discarding the stuff in a way that will result in no benefit to anyone. I'm willing to ship, via USPS because I visit my P.O. box several times a week, those items I can easily ship. I have physical limitations which render me unable to lift items with much weight or raise my arms much above the level of my shoulders. I don't have a lot of boxes in which to ship things, nor do I have the time or the desire to shop for boxes and packaging materials. I would, of course, consider bagging a board or documentation, and taking it to Mailboxes, etc, to have them package and ship it at the expense of the recipient. However, I don't have lots of cash to invest in speculation on COD shipments. I can do this a little, but I have a boy at Harvard and one (who didn't want to go to MIT because his brother was already in Boston) at Georgia Tech. You know that's not free! The reason I decided to get into the pile of miscellaneous hardware and move it out is because I'm in the "proof of concept" stage with my new client and while packaging doesn't matter at this point, I do have to have hardware on which to implement the concepts and I no longer go out and buy, randomly, hardware which suits the task, first because it often doesn't and secondly because it ultimately winds up in "the pile." I doubt that you intended to publish this communique' but I'm also publishing my reply so I won't have to explain to every individual why I don't have inventory listings of all the stuff in "the pile" or in "the heap." This stuff is the product of over twenty five years' accumulation of hardware I bought at market price and which has not found another home . . . yet. I remember what some of this stuff cost, so I'm reluctant simply to toss it where it will produce no further value. Those old Apple-]['s still do, faithfully, the job they could do back in the '70's, though no better, and the CP/M boxes will still turn out the payroll, though not in color and without the fancy noises. I try to pass this stuff on to people who will get some benefit since it's worthless lying around unused. Clearly, you're in the business of distributing such items as we discussed before. I have no problem with that. I just can't afford to expend my limited resources making the business of getting these items moved to your venue convenient for you. Things were different two to three weeks ago, when I didn't have the trunk of my car sealed by the damage, and when I didn't have the problem of making room for additional residents in my house. As I've said before, I don't mind giving stuff away to someone who will use it. If I "get" something for it, I prefer it not take the form of cash, because of the tax-related bookkeeping hassles. As I pick my way through "the pile" looking for resources I can use for my present task, I'll make a list of what I see. In some cases, I'll know I have other parts, or documents, or whatever, which might "go with" these and probably won't have time to find them. I will however offer a partial list as time allows and as I go back inside to "take a load off." Does this make any sense to anyone? Dick ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: attention MITS fiends . . . > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:30 AM > > On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I'm trying to make room for a child and her progeny in my basement, hence > > have moved some items into the carport . . . > > > > Since todays weather is good, I'm out sifting through the stuff looking for > > items of interest, and find I have a MITS modem board. > > > > Would this be of interest to anyone? > > Richard, what happened? > > You were going to consolidate all the stuff in the carport and then > determine a total shipping weight so I could figure out how much I owe you > for it. > > Now you are offering up bits & pieces to the list. I thought we'd already > had a deal on everything. > > I am very confused as to why you are doing this. > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From ss at allegro.com Sat Feb 20 13:43:43 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990220112643.3067de14@intellistar.net> References: <36CECA1F.8E055164@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <199902201943.LAA74201@bart.allegro.com> Joe wrote: > Wow, that looks like quite a system. Better watch out, Stan likes 3000s > and he might be paying you a midnight visit! Me, I can't even spell 3000 :-) Which Stan? :) Steve: when you turn it on, you may be given a choice of COLD/COOL/WARM for starting the machine. Choose WARM. The other methods will "lose" disk space allocated to spooled printer output. (That space can be reclaimed later, as it turns out.) Stan (I'm the one who works on HP 3000s for a living...and for fun) Sieler From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Sat Feb 20 14:13:30 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Cromemco Dazzler In-Reply-To: <19990220154801364.AAC137@fuj03> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I was digging throught the pile of "stuff" from days of old, and find I > have a board-set (S-100) which is a Cromemco (remember them?) Dazzler video Certainly do. Just ran across some Cromemco manuals at the Junque shop - a HD5 hard disk and most interestingly, a Cromemco Network Interface, dated April 83, chock full of details. Appearently they used their own propriatary 'C-Net' (twin-ax), only does 500 kbits/s but I guess it was cheaper than Ethernet at the time - chart compares $1000/node for c-net vs $6000/node for Ethernet (hard to imagine now that we're buying 100Mbps nics for <$30!) Other finds: A Zenith Data Systems ZA-100-1 Boot Rom source listing, Vol I, ROM ver 2.5 And sadest of all, PART of a Motorola Evaluation Kit MEK6800D2, manuals, some classroom papers and the keypad/display only. Scoured the store and couldn't find the cpu board. Oh well. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From wanderer at bos.nl Sat Feb 20 16:34:12 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: RT-11 manuals Was: Re: Latest finds References: <199902200159.AA27251@world.std.com> <4.1.19990220085111.009aa8d0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <36CEF9F3.58FD@bos.nl> Hello Chris, There is 'Guide To ..' but it was still in it's shrinkwrap, and it was not in the firts binder, in fact, it was placed at the end of binder 3B. It seems that the European version is a little different, it lists binders no. 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 3A nd 3B. The manual 2D does contain the KED editor guide. It looks that the System Messages were part of a separate binder. So, only thing I miss is the SYSGEN and the System Messages guide. Unfortunately I do not have the RT-11 SW yet, I'm still looking for it (on RL02, anybody able to help me here :=) ). Best regards, Ed Christian Fandt wrote: > > Upon the date 12:12 PM 2/20/99 -0100, wanderer said something like: > >Hello gang, > > > >I just unloaded and sorted out 5 boxes of documentation and a little > >cabinet with 2 RL02's. > > > >The documentation : > > a full set of RSX-11M 4.0 binders > > an incomplete (?) of RT-11 5.1 manuals, I got no's 1A, 1B, 2A, > > 2B, 2D, 3A and 3B (which ones do I miss besides 2C?) > > Hi Ed, > > I have a set of RT-11 5.1 manuals too. In vol. 1A do you have the "Guide to > RT-11 Documentation". That gives a complete inventory of the manual set on > page 2. There should be one for the RSX-11M set too in its respective > "Guide to..." manual. > > Here's my RT-11 5.1 volume list: 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3A and finally, > 3B. You apparently are missing vol. 1C which is the System Generation > Guide, an important vol. if you plan to do much work with RT-11. Therefore, > just vols 2C and 1C are missing from your set. > > The Dutch (or European) manual set may be somewhat different. There is no > vol. 2D in my 5.1 set. 2C has the System Message Manual and the Keypad > Editor User's Guide in a single binder. Could there be a different editor > or something in the Dutch/European set causing a volume 2D? > > Let me know if you have other questions on my RT-11 set Ed. > > Megan, have you any comment on the diffs between my 5.1 set and Ed's? > > Big congratulations on scoring this haul of documentation! > > Regards, Chris > -- -- > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From rickb at pail.enginet.com Sat Feb 20 14:44:41 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <000701be5d11$d74800c0$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Greetings, Classic Computer Fans, I've just subscribed. I've heard about this list for a long time, and have been recommended to check it out by a number of folks, so...here I am. My name is Rick Bensene. I live near Portland, Oregon. Some here may know me from my old calculator collection (which I'll shamlessly plug here: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510), which is my substitute for collecting old computers. (Calculators take up less space) I've been involved with computers since the early 1970's. I currently work as a technologist at a large Electronic Design Automation software company. I've always loved computers, and though I don't actively collect them, I am hoping to live vicariously through all you folks who are active in collecting. I have a few older computers that I've run across, mostly as orphans. These include a Tandy 100 (who doesn't have one of these?), a Tandy 600, a Sun 3/50, a Sun 4/360, A couple of Tektronix 6130's, a Tektronix 4132, and a Tektronix 4319. I worked at Tektronix for 13 years, from '77 through '90, so I have a particular affection for Tektronix equipment. I've used/administrated/hacked/programmed quite a range of computers, ranging from a CDC Cyber 73 and later Cyber 176 at Tektronix, VAX 11/780's running both VMS and 4BSD Unix, A Gould Powernode 9080 (interesting, all ECL machine with dual processors), a DEC PDP8/E(OS8), a DEC RSTS system (running on PDP 11/45), varios 11-based systems running RT-11, HP 2000C, E, F, and ACCESS timeshare systems, Apollo Domain OS (DN300, DN3000-series), Sun from as early as the 68K-based VME-bus systems to latest Ultras, early HPUX machines (700-series workstations), IBM RT workstation, IBM 360/30, early micros (Altair, IMSAI, North Star Horizon, ProcTech SOL), Commodore PET, TRS-80, TRS-80 Color Computer, homebrew stuff (8008, 8080 and 6809), Tektronix 4051, Tektronix 6130/4132, Tektronix 4081, Tektronix 43xx-workstations, Alpha Micro (from the early LSI-11-based days), an old (early 1960's) computer made by 3M (can't remember the model number, but I'll write up some memories about it for the list), a SCM 7816 (strange beast, a cross between a computer and a calculator), and of course, PC's since the original. I've programmed in FORTRAN, COBOL, just about all variants of BASIC, C, Perl, Pascal, and in assembly on PDP-8, PDP-11, IBM 360, Interdata 7/16, 8008, 8080, Z80, 6800, 6809, 8051, 8085, 8086, National 320xx, and 68K. I'm looking forward to sharing memories with the list, and, as mentioned, hearing about your memories, and all the great collector finds out there. Best wishes to all, Rick Bensene From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 20 12:53:08 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Latest finds In-Reply-To: <36CEB4DB.6C9D@bos.nl> from "wanderer" at Feb 20, 99 12:12:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 767 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/55d62251/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Sat Feb 20 15:15:47 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <000701be5d11$d74800c0$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> from "Rick Bensene" at Feb 20, 99 12:44:41 pm Message-ID: <199902202115.NAA13976@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 643 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/1cf4888f/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 20 17:23:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: HP Expert was HP-85 Belts... In-Reply-To: <199902201943.LAA74201@bart.allegro.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990220112643.3067de14@intellistar.net> <36CECA1F.8E055164@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990220172315.30775d6e@intellistar.net> At 11:43 AM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: > >> Wow, that looks like quite a system. Better watch out, Stan likes 3000s >> and he might be paying you a midnight visit! Me, I can't even spell 3000 :-) > >Which Stan? :) I was thinking of Stan Perkins but I think Stan Sieler is a HP 3000 fan also and he has some impressive credentials. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 20 17:27:46 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <000701be5d11$d74800c0$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990220172746.3077a6a4@intellistar.net> At 12:44 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >Greetings, Classic Computer Fans, > >I've just subscribed. I've heard about this list for a long time, and have >been recommended to check it out by a number of folks, so...here I am. Yeah, yeah, we know who you are. You're the only living person with a real Tektronix 31 calculator. Welcome to the list. Where've you been hiding? >43xx-workstations, Alpha Micro (from the early LSI-11-based days), an old I guess you just missed the news. I picked up a AM-100 yesterday. Do you have any docs or software for it? Joe Rigdon From mark_k at iname.com Sat Feb 20 14:50:37 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Chinon XT SCSI host adapter card Message-ID: Hi, I have a Chinon 8-bit ISA SCSI host adapter card, which came with my old Chinon CDS-435 SCSI-1 CD-ROM drive. The part number printed on the card is 66201UCSEP02. The only provided driver software is for the Chinon CD-ROM. To use other SCSI devices with this, I need appropriate drivers. What I want to know is, was any "universal" driver software ever made for this card, by which I probably mean an ASPI-compliant driver? If anyone has any idea, or a suggestion of where might be a better place to ask this question, please tell. BTW, Tony Duell would really like this SCSI controller; *every* chip on the card is simple 74-series TTL. :) -- Mark From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 20 16:54:57 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Cromemco Dazzler In-Reply-To: <19990220154801364.AAC137@fuj03> (edick@idcomm.com) References: <19990220154801364.AAC137@fuj03> Message-ID: <19990220225457.13420.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Is anyone interested? Yes! :-) From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 17:43:23 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: here's the list . . . Message-ID: <19990220234024299.AAB195@fuj03> Here's the list of S-100 hardware I've turned up in the last mess of boxes, etc to be unearthed in my basement and transferred to open air storage in my carport. This is only a partial list of what I've uncovered this afternoon, and an extended list will be available later today. There is other stuff, not yet inventoried, but that will be later, if at all. Cromemco 21-slot unterminated Motherboard in VECTOR cardcage - assembled but never used. MSC (later became XEBEC) 9391 5Mbps HARD DISK controller. This controller is functional and capable of handling 16 or fewer heads at 512-byte or 256-byte sector sizes and steps the drive at 3ms per step, which was typical back in 1980. This was the one we used most. XCOMP HDC 2-board set. These are set up for 8" drives only and require one write the BIOS patch or back end driver oneself. Franklin Electric 3-UART serial I/O board DC Hayes Micromodem-100 including documentation and software SSM IO4 2P+2S I/O Board with documentation. No software was provided since everyone wrote their own BIOS patches for it. North Star Z80A CPU card California Computer Systems 2810 Z80A CPU card, with monitor prom. California Computer Systems 2422 FDC for both 8 & 5.25" drives, with monitor/boot prom California Computer Systems 4-port serial card. California Computer Systems 64K DRAM card Vector Graphics 64K DRAM card Extended Processing "BURNER, I/O" board - Prom Programmer with UARTS and PIO not installed. Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. Cromemco Dazzler video graphics board pair - There are two, but only one set of doc's and software including paper tape. MITS Modem board - a MITS serial board with a "MODEM BD" rider. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 20 17:37:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Chinon XT SCSI host adapter card In-Reply-To: from "Mark" at Feb 20, 99 08:50:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 258 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/73b8a37b/attachment.ksh From manney at hmcltd.net Fri Feb 19 20:34:10 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Let's ruin it! (Was: ST-419) Message-ID: <199902202351.PAA08824@mxu1.u.washington.edu> and (b) why >bother to put the whole thing back together again? Someone was mad at it? Best one I ever heard of was a guy who -- um -- urinated in his. Seems it worked for a little while after, too. Friend of mine got it in for repair, but wasn't told by the culprit. Funny smell, though. From manney at hmcltd.net Fri Feb 19 20:04:07 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) Message-ID: <199902202351.PAA08837@mxu1.u.washington.edu> >(In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is >a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) Technically, escape velocity is a scalar quantity... except that it cannot be aimed at the ground. Anything above the ground gets you into orbit, with enough force. P Manney From manney at hmcltd.net Fri Feb 19 20:23:58 1999 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD Message-ID: <199902202351.PAA08848@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Why not drill a 5/16" hole through the case and spray in WD-40? >I have a noisy ST 251 hard drive. It sounds like the bearings. > >Is it heretical to think I may be able to lubricate the bearings? >They appear to be easily accessible on the bottom of the drive. > >Thanks, >Dave > From mbg at world.std.com Sat Feb 20 18:08:47 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: RT-11 manuals Was: Re: Latest finds References: <199902200159.AA27251@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902210008.AA09036@world.std.com> >Megan, have you any comment on the diffs between my 5.1 set and Ed's? I can't really comment... I may still have a few docs from the V2C days, but since then, working in the RT group, I couldn't maintain a copy of each doc set (along with all the other pdp-11 docs I had) so I only kept a copy of the most up to date (and one version behind that). I used to work in the Mill... when the RT group was moved to another facility about a mile away, I had to pare down my collection, and at that it took 90 boxes to move my office. Later, when the RT group was assimilated into the Ultrix development group, we were told to throw out everything pdp-11 related... I didn't. But I did have to pare things down a little more. That move took about 60 boxes to move my office. As it is nowadays, I only have a copy of the V5.6 documentation, and the release notes for V5.7. And most of my pdp-11 documentation (what is left) has been moved home... I still have my collection of handbooks for pdp8s, pdp11s and early vaxen... three boxes worth of them. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 20 18:16:42 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: VisiCalc 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199902202351.PAA08848@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: I picked up a copy of VisiCalc today, complete with manual and registration card. The manual says it's for 1.0 for the Apple ][ (1979), but the reference card says version 1.35 of 9/79. Does anybody know for certain if a version prior to 1.35 shipped? The web tells me the first copy shipped in the fall of 1979, which is consistent with the 9/79 date and 1.35 version. -- Doug From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Feb 20 18:24:38 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Kaypro Boot Disk Message-ID: <199902210024.RAA15098@calico.litterbox.com> Hi all. I'm feeling clueless at this point. I've found the CPM caldera site and downloaded everything that looked appropriate, but I'm completely unclear how to turn this into a kaypro boot disk. I've put a 360k PC drive on my PC in the hopes of using it to write the disk. I've also downloaded teledisk. Now what? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Feb 20 18:24:50 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990220172746.3077a6a4@intellistar.net> References: <000701be5d11$d74800c0$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990220191433.009a95f0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 05:27 PM 2/20/99 +0000, Joe said something like: >At 12:44 PM 2/20/99 -0800, "Rick Bensene" wrote: >>Greetings, Classic Computer Fans, >> >>I've just subscribed. I've heard about this list for a long time, and have >>been recommended to check it out by a number of folks, so...here I am. > > Yeah, yeah, we know who you are. You're the only living person with a >real Tektronix 31 calculator. Welcome to the list. Where've you been hiding? You've got a Tek 31 Rick?! I thought I'd never hear of another one. Welcome to the list. I got mine out of a heap of stuff auctioned from the old IBM Endicott plant back in '85. The I/O cable was with it too. Still worked, had a tape cart with some sort of test controller program on it. Controlled a large rack of in-house-built test gear for some of those square modules one sees on IBM pc boards. Finally found an Operating Manual in '97 --but it's in French! :-) Still looking for another tape cartridge to act as backup to the only one I have. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Feb 20 18:29:51 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Noisy ST 251 HD References: <199902202351.PAA08848@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36CF537F.BD0138AD@halcyon.com> Well, I guess I had a more practical solution than some that this thread provoked! Let's try another tact: I am really glad to find I can use the ST-251 in my DEC Pro 380 instead of the Quantum Q540, since the later drive is rarer, older, and perhaps (in my experience) not too reliable. And has a smaller capacity, of course, and is a full-height drive. But now I have just one working 251 plus the one that sounds like a helicopter taking off, and another one that seems to work but that has ? ? ? written all over it. I can try to dig up some more 251s, but I got some remarks saying it wasn't too reliable a drive, either. Is there a better drive (MFM) with equivalent geometry? (820 cyls, 6 hds, 17 sec) or maybe with 6+ heads and 820+ cylinders (that might work, too?). Half-height would be nice, like the 251, because if I ever get another HD controller card, I can put two drives in my Pro 380 (only one drive per controller card, and supposedly only one per Pro chassis, but the 251 probably uses a lot less power than the Q540, so two drives should be OK). Thanks, Dave PG Manney wrote: > > Why not drill a 5/16" hole through the case and spray in WD-40? > > >I have a noisy ST 251 hard drive. It sounds like the bearings. > > > >Is it heretical to think I may be able to lubricate the bearings? > >They appear to be easily accessible on the bottom of the drive. > > > >Thanks, > >Dave > > From rickb at pail.enginet.com Sat Feb 20 18:57:00 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:17 2005 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990220191433.009a95f0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <000801be5d35$164f53e0$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> > > Yeah, yeah, we know who you are. You're the only living person with a > >real Tektronix 31 calculator. Welcome to the list. Where've you > been hiding? Not really hiding...just lazy. > > You've got a Tek 31 Rick?! I thought I'd never hear of another > one. Welcome to the list. Thanks for the Welcome! Glad to hear that there's at least another Tek 31 out there! > > I got mine out of a heap of stuff auctioned from the old IBM > Endicott plant back in '85. The I/O cable was with it too. > Still worked, had a tape cart > with some sort of test controller program on it. Controlled a > large rack of > in-house-built test gear for some of those square modules one sees on IBM > pc boards. Wow! Amazing that they would have used a machine like the 31 as a test system controller... I would have thought that someone like IBM would have built something of their own to test out their circuit modules. It's clear that Tek influenced the design of the 31 as an instrument controller...kind of the conjunction of Cintra's calculator technology, and Tek's instrument knowledge...all rolled together. The amazing part of it is that Tek literally *gave* these machines away in the '80's at the Tektronix 'country store'. There were lots of these machines sold off 'by the pound' in the original boxes with all the docs, etc. Most were claimed by scrap dealers, as there was a bit of value in the gold used on the edge connector fingers, as well as for scrap metal. > > Finally found an Operating Manual in '97 --but it's in French! :-) Still > looking for another tape cartridge to act as backup to the only > one I have. The docs for these machines are few and far between, sadly. I found a manual set (in English), and also a 'guide to interfacing' that explains the electrical and software aspects of interfacing devices to the 31's I/O system. Also found one of the 'math pack' libraries, with program listings. I also have some tape carts, too. If you'd like to chat more about the 31 (it probably doesn't merit a whole lot of discussion on the list, as it *barely* qualifies as a computer), drop me an EMail: rickb@pail.enginet.com If you want to see my Web page on the 31, visit: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510/tek31.html Now...I've got to find me a Tek 21! Rick Bensene From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 20 19:00:18 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Kaypro Boot Disk In-Reply-To: <199902210024.RAA15098@calico.litterbox.com> (message from Jim Strickland on Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:24:38 -0700 (MST)) References: <199902210024.RAA15098@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <19990221010018.13898.qmail@brouhaha.com> Jim wrote: > I've found the CPM caldera > site and downloaded everything that looked appropriate, but I'm completely > unclear how to turn this into a kaypro boot disk. The only *practical* was to make a Kaypro boot disk is to get a copy or an image of a Kaypro boot disk. Generic CP/M stuff won't help you, since you need the Kaypro-specific BIOS. That said, besides the Caldera site you may find useful stuff at the Unofficial CP/M Web Site: http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ From go at ao.com Sat Feb 20 19:05:40 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: VisiCalc 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <199902202351.PAA08848@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <4.1.19990220165943.034de140@office.ao.com> I'm kind of curious as well. A few months ago I picked up a copy of VisiCalc at one of our local Goodwill stores (hate to see old software go to waste... I know GW throws this stuff in the dumpster after a few days... Pity...) Anyway, my manual (as far as I can tell) says nothing about a version number, though the copyright date is "1979, 1981" on the diskette. For reference, a the diskette says: "Apple II and II Plus 48k 16 Sector" part number 10911-5511 I had thought it to be a "version 1" product since it lacked any obvious version number of the diskette or manual. But my copyright date seems to follow your by some measure.. Since I'm not an appler, I can't test this disk to see if the program wakes up with a version number. (Sometimes I wish I had taken the Apple path instead of the "dark side..." Oh well.) Gary At 07:16 PM 2/20/99 -0500, you wrote: >I picked up a copy of VisiCalc today, complete with manual and >registration card. The manual says it's for 1.0 for the Apple ][ (1979), >but the reference card says version 1.35 of 9/79. > >Does anybody know for certain if a version prior to 1.35 shipped? The web >tells me the first copy shipped in the fall of 1979, which is consistent >with the 9/79 date and 1.35 version. > >-- Doug From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Feb 20 19:07:18 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Kaypro Boot Disk In-Reply-To: <19990221010018.13898.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 21, 1999 01:00:18 AM Message-ID: <199902210107.SAA15270@calico.litterbox.com> > > Jim wrote: > > I've found the CPM caldera > > site and downloaded everything that looked appropriate, but I'm completely > > unclear how to turn this into a kaypro boot disk. > > The only *practical* was to make a Kaypro boot disk is to get a copy or an > image of a Kaypro boot disk. Generic CP/M stuff won't help you, since you > need the Kaypro-specific BIOS. > > That said, besides the Caldera site you may find useful stuff at the > Unofficial CP/M Web Site: > http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ Oookay, could I beg/plead/mooch a kaypro boot disk image that's made with teledisk? sending attachments directly to me is not a problem. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Feb 20 19:09:26 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: DEC Pro memory card upgrade Message-ID: <36CF5CC6.E7B599D2@halcyon.com> Here's another Pro 380 question. I asked it on the pdp11 newsgroups and got no answers. Maybe you can do better here! Has anyone ever upgraded a memory expansion card (000034, plugs into slot 0-5 of the CTI bus) from 64Kbit to 256Kbit chips? (256KB to 1MB) You can easily do this with the memory card that plugs into the mother board--there's even two empty jumpers waiting for stuffing. Is it possible? If someone thinks they can do it, I'll gladly contribute a board for a proof-of-concept test. You keep the board as long as you tell me how to do it! Dave From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 20 19:30:40 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: VisiCalc 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990220165943.034de140@office.ao.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Gary Oliver wrote: >I'm kind of curious as well. A few months ago I picked up a copy >of VisiCalc at one of our local Goodwill stores (hate to see old >software go to waste... I know GW throws this stuff in the >dumpster after a few days... Pity...) I'm curious too. I have a brown leather binder of Visicalc, but I've also seen a black plastic binder. Does anyone know which is newer? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 20:48:18 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: update to "here's the list..." Message-ID: <19990221024548394.AAA197@fuj03> There's a fair amount of documentation the corresponding software to which, sadly, had to be tossed with the other 50K or so 8" diskettes I have ditched over the past year. I'll list that later, but here are some additions to the S-100 hardware list. Subsequent versions of this list will appear similarly updated, i.e. new additions separately, but the complete previous listing integrated. additional S-100 items as of 19:20 on 2/20/99 Industrial Micro Systems Z80A CPU Board - no provision for a PROM Industrial Micro Systems 64K DRAM board Industrial Micro Systems I/O card with two UARTS, 1 8255 PIA, 1 8253 TIMER, PROM designated SA1000 {BTW - there's also an 8" hard disk with an SA1000-compatible controller on it, propbably compatible with the above.} JADE Memory Bank 64K DRAM board PICEON 64K DRAM board SD SYSTEMS SBC 100 CPU Board SD SYSTEMS SBC 200 CPU Board SD SYSTEMS Expandoram 64K DRAM Board SD SYSTEMS Expandoram II 64K DRAM Board SD SYSTEMS Expandoram II 64K DRAM Board Solid State Music VB1B video board - missing crystal TEI I/O Board with 8253 timer, 3 8251's, 1 8255 Morrow Thinker Toys "Switchboard" Serial/Parallel I/O board - with doc's Cromemco D + 7A analog and digital I/O board with doc's in addition to the S-100 stuff, there are numerous 4-and 9-slot Multibus I cardcages and several memory boards, floppy and hard disk interface cards, and a few iSBC's I don't intend to keep. for the Apple-][ lovers, there are a couple of complete computers and a number of cards not yet listed but soon to come. There's also a fair amount of software, mostly for the ][+ with the Z80 card, including, I believe, COBOL, FORTRAN, PL-1, BASIC, BASCOM, among others, based on the documentation I've found. > From: Richard Erlacher > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: here's the list . . . > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 4:43 PM > > Here's the list of S-100 hardware I've turned up in the last mess of boxes, > etc to be unearthed in my basement and transferred to open air storage in > my carport. This is only a partial list of what I've uncovered this > afternoon, and an extended list will be available later today. > > There is other stuff, not yet inventoried, but that will be later, if at > all. > > Cromemco 21-slot unterminated Motherboard in VECTOR cardcage - assembled > but never used. > > MSC (later became XEBEC) 9391 5Mbps HARD DISK controller. This controller > is functional and capable of handling 16 or fewer heads at 512-byte or > 256-byte sector sizes and steps the drive at 3ms per step, which was > typical back in 1980. This was the one we used most. Some docs available > > XCOMP HDC 2-board set. These are set up for 8" drives only and require one write the BIOS patch or back end driver oneself. > > Franklin Electric 3-UART serial I/O board > > DC Hayes Micromodem-100 including documentation and software > > SSM IO4 2P+2S I/O Board with documentation. No software was provided since everyone wrote their own BIOS patches for it. > > North Star Z80A CPU card > > California Computer Systems 2810 Z80A CPU card, with monitor prom. > California Computer Systems 2422 FDC for both 8 & 5.25" drives, with > monitor/boot prom > California Computer Systems 4-port serial card. > California Computer Systems 64K DRAM card > > Vector Graphics 64K DRAM card > > Extended Processing "BURNER, I/O" board - Prom Programmer with UARTS and PIO not installed. > > Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board > > BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. > > Cromemco Dazzler video graphics board pair - There are two, but only one set of doc's and software including paper tape. > > MITS Modem board - a MITS serial board with a "MODEM BD" rider. > From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 20 20:52:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: DEC Pro memory card upgrade Message-ID: <199902210252.AA23125@world.std.com> I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentative title is a Handbook of DEC Handbooks. Trying to find a definitive list of all such publications is proving to be very difficult. The Compaq-version of DEC is still very much unorganized. The Smithsonian is doing their best, as is Charles Babbage Institute, and TCM is next on the contact list, but please consider helping. I believe the list can only be compiled through grass-roots channels. If you have any DEC handbooks, please send an email directly to me with the titles and dates of publication. Please only send a message if you have the title, not just if you sort'a know it might exist. I'll publish the list on my web site. Thank you all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Feb 20 21:34:58 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards Message-ID: <36CF7EE0.9DFD50ED@bigfoot.com> I have 4 boards that go to IBM PS/2 model 70-386's, the 25 mhz version to find homes for. These are the smaller processor board that mount to J1 and J2 on the base motherboard and has the 80386DX-25 on it and has the socket for the 80387DX-25. If you have a bad machine, or just need a standard Intel 80386DX-25 chip, then this is for you! The picture listed at http://www.pc.ibm.com:80/bookmgr/pictures/s52g9971-picture-77-zoom.gif shows the layout of the entire board and the ones I have are the small board that #6 points to. The standoffs to mount the board are NOT included. All have been tested with and without a 387 math processor and function great. How much? $5.00 each plus a few dollars shipping. They don't weigh much so I imagine they should ship cheap. USA ad APO/FPO addresses only, payable by either money order or cash (if you trust the mail that much). If someone wants ALL FOUR right off the bat then I can go $16 for all of them, plus a still small shipping fee. Drop me a note by direct email and please include your zip code so I can guess-timate shipping. My guess is probably $2 will get one of these to most places in the lower 48. Russ Blakeman Harned, KY USA From douga at email.com Sat Feb 20 22:01:33 1999 From: douga at email.com (Doug Auerbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <01be5d4e$de7b3000$576381ce@wport.wport.com> Greetings, I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one (not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them and replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would be! Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. Doug Auerbach From black at gco.apana.org.au Sun Feb 21 14:05:46 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards References: <36CF7EE0.9DFD50ED@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <36D06718.A9E5B1E3@gco.apana.org.au> Russ Blakeman wrote: > I have 4 boards that go to IBM PS/2 model 70-386's, the 25 mhz version > to find homes for. These are the smaller processor board that mount to > J1 and J2 on the base motherboard and has the 80386DX-25 on it and has > the socket for the 80387DX-25. If you have a bad machine, or just need a > standard Intel 80386DX-25 chip, then this is for you! > I'ce got one of the 16mhz 70's - works, but every time I turn the thing on, I've gotta re-run the setup disk (the battery & the speaker were missing when I got it). Anyone know where I can score the missing parts for this beastie ? I've got a modem card & a network card & if the thing can reboot without re-setting up after a power out, I wouldn't mind pressing it into service as another node on the BBS. cheers, Lance From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 20 22:17:57 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: [OT] Space shuttle explosions and computers (was Re: Who invented the internet?) In-Reply-To: <199902202351.PAA08837@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, PG Manney wrote: > >(In any case, the use of the word velocity is incorrect. Velocity is > >a vector, as I had drilled into me in Physics class.) > > Technically, escape velocity is a scalar quantity... except that it cannot > be aimed at the ground. Anything above the ground gets you into orbit, with > enough force. Absolutely correct. The reason rockets are aimed vertical to the ground is to get through atmosphere drag as soon as possible. A rocket (or linear accellerator package) launched from the moon would have no such drag, in fact the O'Neil project launchers are designed to miss the horizon by "just this much". While it's fiction, the novel _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ by Robert Heinlein is a fair introductory text on that. Ignore the blatant libertarianism in the story unless you're into that sort of thing (as I am). -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 22:16:03 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <19990221041254329.AAA50@fuj03> Perhaps I can help . . . I have a couple of TS806's sans HDD. Any interest? regards, Dick ---------- > From: Doug Auerbach > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:01 PM > > Greetings, > > I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or > TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one > (not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you > have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate > it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! > > Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This > may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them and > replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, > which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would > be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to > mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would > be! > > Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. > > > Doug Auerbach > From at258 at osfn.org Sat Feb 20 22:20:45 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) In-Reply-To: <19990221041254329.AAA50@fuj03> Message-ID: We have a TS806-20 that keeps requesting s boot disk (revision F?). Anyone have anything like that out there, or one for an Altos 8600-12? On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Perhaps I can help . . . I have a couple of TS806's sans HDD. Any > interest? > > regards, > > Dick > > ---------- > > From: Doug Auerbach > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:01 PM > > > > Greetings, > > > > I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or > > TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one > > (not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if > you > > have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really > appreciate > > it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! > > > > Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. > This > > may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them > and > > replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique > case, > > which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick > would > > be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to > > mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would > > be! > > > > Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. > > > > > > Doug Auerbach > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Cast est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Feb 20 22:31:06 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. In-Reply-To: <199902210324.WAA19022@golden.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Unusual systems wrote: > I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentative > title is a Handbook of DEC Handbooks. Trying to find a definitive list of > Thank you all. > Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca Is this request just limited to the 'paperback' Handbooks, or is other, non "Orange Wall" literature and docs included? I have quite a bit of miscellaneous Stuff, as well as a shelf and 1/2 of Handbooks per se. I've asked this on The List in case anyone else had a similar question. And yes, I'd be happy to forward an inventory to you. Cheers John From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 20 22:43:27 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. In-Reply-To: <199902210324.WAA19022@golden.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Unusual systems wrote: > I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentative [...] > I'll publish the list on my web site. Some of the PDP-8 handbooks are not only listed, but available as scans on Kevin McQuiggin's site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ Besides the ones everybody has, I have an early DEC handbook: Digital Logic Handbook, Sept 1960 -- Doug From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 00:48:46 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: update to "here's the list..." In-Reply-To: <19990221024548394.AAA197@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221004846.464ff774@intellistar.net> At 07:48 PM 2/20/99 -0700, you wrote: >sadly, had to be tossed with the other 50K or so 8" diskettes I have >ditched over the past year. Dick, If you come across ANY hard sectored floppy disks I could use them.. I have several systems that used the hard sectored ones but they're hard to come by. If you don't want to take time to sort them, I'll take the whole lot and sort them and pass the soft sectored ones on to someone else. > >PICEON 64K DRAM board OH! I can use this! I have one on my Alpha Micro and I could use another. >> >> Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board I won't mind having this. >> >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 >2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. I'd like to have this. >> >> Cromemco Dazzler video graphics board pair - There are two, but only one >set of doc's and software including paper tape. >> I hope you have my name on one of these. I'll make copies of the manual and disks to go with the other board. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 00:51:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards In-Reply-To: <36CF7EE0.9DFD50ED@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221005115.463770d2@intellistar.net> Russ, Will the boards work in a P70? If so I'd like to get one. Joe At 09:34 PM 2/20/99 -0600, you wrote: >I have 4 boards that go to IBM PS/2 model 70-386's, the 25 mhz version >to find homes for. These are the smaller processor board that mount to >J1 and J2 on the base motherboard and has the 80386DX-25 on it and has >the socket for the 80387DX-25. If you have a bad machine, or just need a >standard Intel 80386DX-25 chip, then this is for you! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 00:54:49 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) In-Reply-To: <01be5d4e$de7b3000$576381ce@wport.wport.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221005449.46370920@intellistar.net> Hi Doug, I'm looking for one also. I'd LIKE to find an 802H. I just got a complete set of docs including the service manual. >may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them and >replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply That's sacraledge! Joe At 08:01 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >Greetings, > >I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or >TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one >(not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you >have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate >it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! > >Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This >may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them and >replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, >which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would >be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to >mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would >be! > >Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. > > >Doug Auerbach > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 22:55:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <19990221045232829.AAA90@fuj03> I do have a boot disk for the 806. I'm not sure where it is at the moment, but it's within 10-12 feet of here for sure. Since I haven't used a CP/M box of any sort for a long time, I'd be afraid to guess how I'll replicate it. The 806's I have are 20's but that's a combination of a 20MB hard drive and about half a dozen bytes in the bios. I used to switch between a ten and a 20 by patching these bytes. Email me in a couple of days and I'll try to have a firm answer for you. ---------- > From: Merle K. Peirce > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:20 PM > > > We have a TS806-20 that keeps requesting s boot disk (revision F?). > Anyone have anything like that out there, or one for an Altos 8600-12? > > On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Perhaps I can help . . . I have a couple of TS806's sans HDD. Any > > interest? > > > > regards, > > > > Dick > > > > ---------- > > > From: Doug Auerbach > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > > Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:01 PM > > > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or > > > TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one > > > (not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if > > you > > > have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really > > appreciate > > > it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! > > > > > > Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. > > This > > > may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them > > and > > > replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > > combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique > > case, > > > which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick > > would > > > be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to > > > mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would > > > be! > > > > > > Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. > > > > > > > > > Doug Auerbach > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > 215 Shady Lea Road, > North Kingstown, RI 02852 > > "Cast est qui nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From douga at email.com Sat Feb 20 23:00:09 1999 From: douga at email.com (Doug Auerbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <01be5d57$0e6831c0$576381ce@wport.wport.com> >>but I have the idea of taking one of them and >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > That's sacraledge! I know, you're right. That's why I want two. ;-) I'll let you know if I come up with an 802H. Do you know if it looks the same as the 803? I'm really into the nostalgia value of having a machine that has that distinctive 803/1603 styling. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:54 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) >Hi Doug, > > I'm looking for one also. I'd LIKE to find an 802H. I just got a complete >set of docs including the service manual. > >>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them and >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > That's sacraledge! > > Joe > >At 08:01 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >>Greetings, >> >>I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or >>TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one >>(not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you >>have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate >>it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! >> >>Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This >>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them and >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >>combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, >>which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would >>be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to >>mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would >>be! >> >>Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. >> >> >>Doug Auerbach >> >> >> > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 23:14:55 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: update to "here's the list..." Message-ID: <19990221051249749.AAB233@fuj03> So far, I've only found the one set of Dazzler doc's and software, and the software is on paper tape. I believe there's still one dazzler set floating around, though. I still have a few hundred 8" diskettes, of which maybe ten or twenty will be hard sectored, with holes on the outside of one box and on the inside of the other. I may never find these, however, as they were stored in a part of the basement now buried with "other" stuff. ONly time will tell. If you need the PICEON 64K DRAM board then it's yours, pending adequate shipping arrangements. regards, Dick ---------- > From: Joe > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: update to "here's the list..." > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 5:48 PM > > At 07:48 PM 2/20/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >sadly, had to be tossed with the other 50K or so 8" diskettes I have > >ditched over the past year. > > Dick, > > If you come across ANY hard sectored floppy disks I could use them.. I > have several systems that used the hard sectored ones but they're hard to > come by. If you don't want to take time to sort them, I'll take the whole > lot and sort them and pass the soft sectored ones on to someone else. > > > > > >PICEON 64K DRAM board > > OH! I can use this! I have one on my Alpha Micro and I could use another. > > >> > >> Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board > > I won't mind having this. > >> > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > >2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. > > I'd like to have this. > >> > >> Cromemco Dazzler video graphics board pair - There are two, but only one > >set of doc's and software including paper tape. > >> > > I hope you have my name on one of these. I'll make copies of the manual > and disks to go with the other board. > > From douga at email.com Sat Feb 20 23:15:13 1999 From: douga at email.com (Doug Auerbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <01be5d59$292dea20$576381ce@wport.wport.com> 1. Sorry about that last posting, folks. I thought it was a personal email. I'm (obviously) new to this list. 2. Does anyone have a link to a site with images of the various TeleVideo models? I've seen one image on the net, at the following address, but I've yet to find anything else: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/jcgm-vcf.html Doug -----Original Message----- From: Doug Auerbach To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) >>>but I have the idea of taking one of them and >>>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >> >> That's sacraledge! > >I know, you're right. That's why I want two. ;-) > >I'll let you know if I come up with an 802H. Do you know if it looks the >same as the 803? I'm really into the nostalgia value of having a machine >that has that distinctive 803/1603 styling. > >Doug > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:54 PM >Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > > >>Hi Doug, >> >> I'm looking for one also. I'd LIKE to find an 802H. I just got a complete >>set of docs including the service manual. >> >>>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them >and >>>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >> >> That's sacraledge! >> >> Joe >> >>At 08:01 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >>>Greetings, >>> >>>I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or >>>TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one >>>(not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you >>>have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate >>>it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! >>> >>>Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This >>>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them >and >>>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >>>combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, >>>which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would >>>be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to >>>mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would >>>be! >>> >>>Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. >>> >>> >>>Doug Auerbach >>> >>> >>> >> > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 20 23:17:36 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <19990221051433648.AAA226@fuj03> I do believe the 803 and 802 had the same package, but different contents. I haven't seen one in over 15 years, though. Dick ---------- > From: Doug Auerbach > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 10:00 PM > > >>but I have the idea of taking one of them and > >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > > > That's sacraledge! > > I know, you're right. That's why I want two. ;-) > > I'll let you know if I come up with an 802H. Do you know if it looks the > same as the 803? I'm really into the nostalgia value of having a machine > that has that distinctive 803/1603 styling. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:54 PM > Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > > > >Hi Doug, > > > > I'm looking for one also. I'd LIKE to find an 802H. I just got a complete > >set of docs including the service manual. > > > >>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them > and > >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > > > That's sacraledge! > > > > Joe > > > >At 08:01 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: > >>Greetings, > >> > >>I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or > >>TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one > >>(not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you > >>have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate > >>it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! > >> > >>Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This > >>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them > and > >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > >>combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, > >>which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would > >>be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to > >>mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would > >>be! > >> > >>Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. > >> > >> > >>Doug Auerbach > >> > >> > >> > > From douga at email.com Sat Feb 20 23:25:13 1999 From: douga at email.com (Doug Auerbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <01be5d5a$8ef1be80$576381ce@wport.wport.com> Dick, I may be interested in your TS-806's. Can you tell me more about them? If you like, let's take it to email. Doug (douga@email.com) -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:13 PM Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) >Perhaps I can help . . . I have a couple of TS806's sans HDD. Any >interest? > >regards, > >Dick > >---------- >> From: Doug Auerbach >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >> Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) >> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:01 PM >> >> Greetings, >> >> I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or >> TS-1603 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Feb 20 23:41:48 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards References: <3.0.1.16.19990221005115.463770d2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36CF9C9A.3DB94272@bigfoot.com> Nope - totally different machines. All the P70's I've ever had ran a 386DX-25 anyway, other than the 486 version I had. Joe wrote: > Russ, > > Will the boards work in a P70? If so I'd like to get one. > > Joe > > At 09:34 PM 2/20/99 -0600, you wrote: > >I have 4 boards that go to IBM PS/2 model 70-386's, the 25 mhz version > >to find homes for. These are the smaller processor board that mount to > >J1 and J2 on the base motherboard and has the 80386DX-25 on it and has > >the socket for the 80387DX-25. If you have a bad machine, or just need a > >standard Intel 80386DX-25 chip, then this is for you! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 01:46:56 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) In-Reply-To: <01be5d57$0e6831c0$576381ce@wport.wport.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221014656.304f7a82@intellistar.net> Doug, At 09:00 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >>>but I have the idea of taking one of them and >>>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >> >> That's sacraledge! > >I know, you're right. That's why I want two. ;-) > >I'll let you know if I come up with an 802H. Do you know if it looks the >same as the 803? No, I have no idea what the 803 looks like. My service manual only really covers the 800 and 802s but it does list manuals and spare parts. The parts list that I have says that some the Logic Board Assy is the same in the 803 and 800 but it doesn't list any other 803 parts. BTW I think Televideo is still in business. Has anyone tried to order manuals or parts for any of these old systems? I have part number for the machine parts and for the manuals. I'm really into the nostalgia value of having a machine >that has that distinctive 803/1603 styling. I understand but it's a shame to destroy a good machine just to get a distinctive case. Joe > >Doug > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:54 PM >Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > > >>Hi Doug, >> >> I'm looking for one also. I'd LIKE to find an 802H. I just got a complete >>set of docs including the service manual. >> >>>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them >and >>>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >> >> That's sacraledge! >> >> Joe >> >>At 08:01 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >>>Greetings, >>> >>>I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or >>>TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one >>>(not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if you >>>have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really appreciate >>>it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! >>> >>>Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. This >>>may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them >and >>>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >>>combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique case, >>>which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick would >>>be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to >>>mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would >>>be! >>> >>>Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. >>> >>> >>>Doug Auerbach >>> >>> >>> >> > > From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 21 00:12:56 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) In-Reply-To: <01be5d57$0e6831c0$576381ce@wport.wport.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Doug Auerbach wrote: > >>but I have the idea of taking one of them and > >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > > > That's sacraledge! > > I know, you're right. That's why I want two. ;-) > > I'll let you know if I come up with an 802H. Do you know if it looks the > same as the 803? I'm really into the nostalgia value of having a machine > that has that distinctive 803/1603 styling. You are talking about that vertical column to the right that held drives and motherboard with the tippable monitor to the left? No, the 802H does not look like that, It is the classic monitor/drives in a box. Separate keyboard, as I recall. Nothing special from an appearance standpoint. - don > Doug From kraabel at kraabel.com Sun Feb 21 00:30:14 1999 From: kraabel at kraabel.com (Paul Kraabel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Forbes followup Message-ID: <000401be5d63$a3fb6660$4d8514d1@btfsplk> Kip, I enjoyed your article. I have a IBM System 360 control panel complete with the 360 metal bar that goes above the panel. Let me know if you know anyone that would want to buy it ... it would be a great retirement gift or an excellent office piece. It is about 3' by 4' and would fit on a wall. Attached is a pic. Paul =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Paul S. Kraabel KRAABEL & Co., Inc. http://www.kraabel.com/ Box 804, Mercer Island, WA USA 98040-0804 Voice- 206 236 1622 Email- kraabel@kraabel.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 360B.JPG Type: application/octet-stream Size: 190002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990220/ae05ff95/360B.obj From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Feb 21 01:19:46 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 Message-ID: <199902210719.AAA17055@calico.litterbox.com> *sigh* Don Maslin just sent me the boot disk for my kaypro, and I find that teledisk 2.12 doesn't like the floppy controller on my p2/300. I know the floppy itself works, I formatted a 360k floppy on it, wrote data to it, read it back, works fine under win95. Suggestions? and btw, many thanks to Mr. Maslin for the boot floppy image. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 21 02:04:42 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 Message-ID: <19990221080232208.AAA199@fuj03> Didn't the Kaypro use 1K sectors? ...and why do I have the impression that the Kaypro had a WD 1770 or 1772 (28-pin) FDC on it? I used to swap disks with the AMPRO which was like this all the time. It's been a long time though . . . Dick ---------- > From: Jim Strickland > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: teledisk2.12 > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 12:19 AM > > *sigh* Don Maslin just sent me the boot disk for my kaypro, and I find that > teledisk 2.12 doesn't like the floppy controller on my p2/300. I know the > floppy itself works, I formatted a 360k floppy on it, wrote data to it, read > it back, works fine under win95. > > Suggestions? > > and btw, many thanks to Mr. Maslin for the boot floppy image. > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 21 03:31:10 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Forbes followup In-Reply-To: <000401be5d63$a3fb6660$4d8514d1@btfsplk> (kraabel@kraabel.com) References: <000401be5d63$a3fb6660$4d8514d1@btfsplk> Message-ID: <19990221093110.15677.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Paul Kraabel" wrote: > I have a IBM System 360 control panel complete with the 360 metal bar that > goes above the panel. I wrote in private email to Paul that it would be really awesome to write a 360 simulator for a single-board computer and stick it in/behind the panel, so that it really works as originally intended. Of course, you have to get a 3270 terminal to connect to it. :-) A friend has the PDP-11/40 front end out of a DECsystem-1090. It's an ordinary 11/40 except for the colors of the silkscreen and switches, and that the legend says "KL10" instead of "PDP-11/40". We've been talking about building a Unibus board to go inside it with a RISC processor (perhaps an Alpha) running a KL10 simulator, so that this size-reduced DECsystem-10 would be fully functional. Not quite as nice as preserving the whole machine, but in this particular case it actually wasn't a whole machine in the first place. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 21 03:48:15 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 In-Reply-To: <199902210719.AAA17055@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >*sigh* Don Maslin just sent me the boot disk for my kaypro, and I find that >teledisk 2.12 doesn't like the floppy controller on my p2/300. I know the >floppy itself works, I formatted a 360k floppy on it, wrote data to it, read >it back, works fine under win95. > >Suggestions? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that most programs such as teledisk will not work reliably with anything faster than a 486/33. I know I've been keeping my eye open for a nice _small_ system that is a 486/33 or slower and can still run Linux and be connected to a network for just this purpose. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From guerney at uq.net.au Sun Feb 21 06:15:27 1999 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: VisiCalc 1.0 Message-ID: <022401be5d93$de8b4f40$32f665cb@default> From: Gary Oliver From: Gary Oliver >Anyway, my manual (as far as I can tell) says nothing about a version >number, though the copyright date is "1979, 1981" on the diskette. >For reference, a the diskette says: > >"Apple II and II Plus 48k 16 Sector" part number 10911-5511 From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sun Feb 21 06:31:35 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - refining the original request. Message-ID: <199902211231.HAA26827@golden.net> >Is this request just limited to the 'paperback' Handbooks, or is >other, non "Orange Wall" literature and docs included? > Yes John, you're correct. This list is dedicated to the 'paperback' Handbooks exclusively. Thank you for prompting the clarification and offering to send your own inventory list. Keep'em comin folks. Yours in good faith. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From bmahoney at sprint.ca Sun Feb 21 08:33:24 1999 From: bmahoney at sprint.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards References: <36CF7EE0.9DFD50ED@bigfoot.com> <36D06718.A9E5B1E3@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: <36D01934.7B853786@sprint.ca> IBM has the parts. Might not be considered a 'score' but they have them. Brian Mahoney Lance Lyon wrote: > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > . Anyone know where I can score the missing parts for this > beastie ? I've got a modem card & a network card & if the thing can reboot > without re-setting up after a power out, I wouldn't mind pressing it into > service as another node on the BBS. > > cheers, > Lance -- http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Feb 21 07:23:19 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Let's ruin it! (Was: ST-419) In-Reply-To: <199902202351.PAA08824@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990221082319.007a65e0@mail.wincom.net> At 09:34 PM 2/19/1999 -0500, you wrote: >and (b) why >>bother to put the whole thing back together again? > >Someone was mad at it? > >Best one I ever heard of was a guy who -- um -- urinated in his. Seems it >worked for a little while after, too. > >Friend of mine got it in for repair, but wasn't told by the culprit. Funny >smell, though. I used to get the odd TV set that had been invaded by mice. Unfortunately, due to the high voltage, some were still there. The smell of a toasted mouse is unforgettable. Also I once had a Philips tape recorder brought in for repairs that had been buried, but that's another story. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 09:48:29 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) In-Reply-To: References: <01be5d57$0e6831c0$576381ce@wport.wport.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221094829.3b97cda6@intellistar.net> At 10:12 PM 2/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Doug Auerbach wrote: > >> >>but I have the idea of taking one of them and >> >>replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply >> > >> > That's sacraledge! >> >> I know, you're right. That's why I want two. ;-) >> >> I'll let you know if I come up with an 802H. Do you know if it looks the >> same as the 803? I'm really into the nostalgia value of having a machine >> that has that distinctive 803/1603 styling. > >You are talking about that vertical column to the right that held drives >and motherboard with the tippable monitor to the left? No, the 802H does >not look like that, It is the classic monitor/drives in a box. Separate >keyboard, as I recall. Nothing special from an appearance standpoint. > > - don Don's right. I have the 802H manual in front of me and the 802H is a short wide box with a built-in 12" CRT on the right and a FH 5 1/4" floppy drive mounted horizontaly on the left. The drive is mounted near the the top and it looks like there's room for another drive below it. The front that surrounds the drive and CRT and the drive itself appear to be black and the rest of the case looks like it's a cream color. The Televideo nameplate is centered below the CRT. The whole thing has a definite offset appearance. The keyboard is separate. It's face and keys are black and the case is the same cream color. The manual gives the dimensions as 7 1/4" tall, 17 1/2" wide and 16 7/8" deep. It weighs 44 pounds. I can provide other details if anyone needs them. I'd like to have a 802H, if anyone comes across one let me know. Joe From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Feb 21 08:16:37 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: Let's ruin it! (Was: ST-419) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990221082319.007a65e0@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <000101be5da4$cae6dde0$24f438cb@a.davie> Charles E. Fox wrote... > Also I once had a Philips tape recorder brought in for > repairs that had > been buried, but that's another story. Sounds like my friend who insists he will be buried with his OSI disk system. Get ready for another job, Charles. Dead body or no dead body, this is an OSI we're talking about. ;) From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Feb 21 03:22:36 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: VT320 terminal Message-ID: <199902211421.JAA09165@smtp.interlog.com> In a thrift-shop I picked up a copy of of a DEC Installing and Using the VT320 terminal. Later I ran across the machine itself with K-B at the main store. I passed it by at the time since I had acquired a bunch of other equipment and couldn't handle it. It was only $15 , but I'm rapidly running out of space. Is it worthwhile going back for it ? Or is it fairly common and easily available ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Feb 21 03:22:35 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards In-Reply-To: <36D06718.A9E5B1E3@gco.apana.org.au> Message-ID: <199902211421.JAA09155@smtp.interlog.com> On 21 Feb 99 at 15:05, Lance Lyon wrote: > > I'ce got one of the 16mhz 70's - works, but every time I turn the thing on, > I've gotta re-run the setup disk (the battery & the speaker were missing > when I got it). Anyone know where I can score the missing parts for this > beastie ? I've got a modem card & a network card & if the thing can reboot > without re-setting up after a power out, I wouldn't mind pressing it into > service as another node on the BBS. > > cheers, > Lance > 16 mhz sounds a bit strange for an 8570, I thought they only came in 20 and 25 mhz models. You might be wise to pick up Russ's board. The 25mhz model is remarikably fast for a PS2 especially with the 387 co-processor. You can get the battery in most camera shops. You want CR-P2 or ,BR-P2 from Panasonic, Varta, Sony, or DL 223A from Duracell. 6v. -lithium. ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From at258 at osfn.org Sun Feb 21 08:34:52 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:18 2005 Subject: update to "here's the list..." In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990221004846.464ff774@intellistar.net> Message-ID: All Alaimo at Computers and More in Marlborough, MA had some new disks awhile back. I'm sure he'd love to sell you all he has. They were pretty reasonable. On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > At 07:48 PM 2/20/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >sadly, had to be tossed with the other 50K or so 8" diskettes I have > >ditched over the past year. > > Dick, > > If you come across ANY hard sectored floppy disks I could use them.. I > have several systems that used the hard sectored ones but they're hard to > come by. If you don't want to take time to sort them, I'll take the whole > lot and sort them and pass the soft sectored ones on to someone else. > > > > > >PICEON 64K DRAM board > > OH! I can use this! I have one on my Alpha Micro and I could use another. > > >> > >> Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board > > I won't mind having this. > >> > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > >2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. > > I'd like to have this. > >> > >> Cromemco Dazzler video graphics board pair - There are two, but only one > >set of doc's and software including paper tape. > >> > > I hope you have my name on one of these. I'll make copies of the manual > and disks to go with the other board. > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Cast est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jpero at cgocable.net Sun Feb 21 10:51:00 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990221005115.463770d2@intellistar.net> References: <36CF7EE0.9DFD50ED@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <199902211648.LAA19974@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:51:15 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Joe To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards > Russ, > > Will the boards work in a P70? If so I'd like to get one. > > Joe (!!) I wish that it does but this is not possible! Those 4 little daughter boards plugs into T3 motherboards only and that motherboard accepts 486DX 25 platform. That it. T1 and T2 motherboards have no "processor daughterboard" slot, only has 3 simm slots and cacheless and comes in 16 and 20mhz. Aside; I have a Everex Step 386 33 with that cool diagnostic display how that works as I wanted to use it with stuffed with PII stuff in that case (Saving the former guts). Got all the pinout and programmings examples from Everex site but how that works in interfacing at hardware level to where? Those cached 386dx w/ 387 25 daughterboard theorically perform less than half of a straight 486DX 33 in performance wise. Not bad. Anyone have ran the checkit 3.0 on those types? I have AST premium bravo (came with 486DX 33 16MB from one of rescue runs from a high school who got full truckload of all kinds nothing interesting other than what I found before they finally threw out 2 weeks ago. Whew, grabbed some before they are all gone!), series (EISA with CPUID slots and another CPUID with ISA motherboard) 486 on EISA ran like real 486DX 33 (16,000) without L2 cache (yuk) and on another, 386dx 33 with 387, 64K cache ran around 9,000 on checkit. Contrast to 486dx 25 performed about 11,000. If anyone have seen AST components which I need for my bravo; P5 60/66 or 90 (with or no P5 90 CPU is ok) CPUID card, "2 HD on a rail" steel bracket that 2 HD's mounted on the its side, bracket length is around same length of a full length ISA card and straddles into 4 plastic standoffs molded into bottom case (it's all plastic!), held in place by 3 screws. When fully configured with drives that small case can hold 5 drives. (I do have P5 66 CPU if anyone happens to have a CPUID card without CPU and willing to give away or for little cash so that computer will have P5 66 instead of cachless 486.) I do have the AST part numbers if you need them to know which is right ones that I wanted. Thanks! Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Feb 21 10:45:21 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: FS: IBM PS/2 Model 70-386 (25 mhz) procesor boards References: <199902211421.JAA09155@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <36D0381F.D3CF023E@bigfoot.com> Lawrence Walker wrote: > 16 mhz sounds a bit strange for an 8570, I thought they only came in 20 and 25 > mhz models. You might be wise to pick up Russ's board. The 25mhz model is > remarikably fast for a PS2 especially with the 387 co-processor. > You can get the battery in most camera shops. You want CR-P2 or ,BR-P2 > from Panasonic, Varta, Sony, or DL 223A from Duracell. 6v. -lithium. Nope, there is a 16, 20 and 25 mhz version, there are also small and large board versions of the 16 and 20. The boards I have are the processor section of the entire mainboard and will not work in any machine other than the 25 mhz version. The boards are also useful if someone needs a 25 mhz processor chip. You're right on the speed relative to the fact that it's only a 25 mhz 386DX though. These keep up with many of the low and midrange 486's, when the slower mca drives are removed and another type installed. The 80 series 25 mhz is/can be much faster especially with SCSI in it. The battery for the 50 through 80 series that clips in is a photo battery and I usually find them at Walmart and Kmart way cheaper than computer suppliers or camera shops. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Feb 21 10:49:22 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: VT320 terminal References: <199902211421.JAA09165@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <36D03910.418711B9@bigfoot.com> I tossed two VT220 and a 320 last fall after holding onto them and asking only shipping for them. I only had one interest in either of them and that person had to pass due to excess equipment too. They are not necessarily commonplace but there are a bunch out there. They're only data terminals as it is so there is a much narrower window of people that would have use for them. Lawrence Walker wrote: > In a thrift-shop I picked up a copy of of a DEC Installing and Using the VT320 > terminal. Later I ran across the machine itself with K-B at the main store. I > passed it by at the time since I had acquired a bunch of other equipment and > couldn't handle it. > It was only $15 , but I'm rapidly running out of space. Is it worthwhile going > back for it ? Or is it fairly common and easily available ? > > ciao larry > lwalker@interlog.com From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 21 11:23:24 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 Message-ID: <199902211723.AA03837@world.std.com> <>*sigh* Don Maslin just sent me the boot disk for my kaypro, and I find th <>teledisk 2.12 doesn't like the floppy controller on my p2/300. I know th <>floppy itself works, I formatted a 360k floppy on it, wrote data to it, re <>it back, works fine under win95. W95 may be part of the problem. Also The boot disk may be wrong for your kaypro! There were many models and a bunch of rom upgrades. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 21 11:23:35 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 Message-ID: <199902211723.AA03894@world.std.com> It's unlikely I'll do that, since of the many hundreds of boxes of 8" diskettes I owned at one time, there were only two of the hard-sectored ones. I recently had a local NRC contractor phone me up after a long chain of referrals, to inquire whether I could replace a drive for them and I had to ask them to provide me with a disketted with which to test the drives. I believe I had one partial box of Memorex diskettes which came with an old NBI word processor which used Memorex drives and an i8008, which , by the way, is now a "high-tech tie-tack" I occasionally wear. There was also an odd box (possibly new, possibly full) of 10-sector hard-sectored diskettes. I don't know what their use was, but I had some GSI/Siemens drives which could operate with either type and soft-sectored ones as well. In the unlikely event these turn up, I'll let you know. regards, Dick ---------- > From: Merle K. Peirce > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: update to "here's the list..." > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 7:34 AM > > > All Alaimo at Computers and More in Marlborough, MA had some new disks > awhile back. I'm sure he'd love to sell you all he has. They were > pretty reasonable. > > On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > At 07:48 PM 2/20/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > > >sadly, had to be tossed with the other 50K or so 8" diskettes I have > > >ditched over the past year. > > > > Dick, > > > > If you come across ANY hard sectored floppy disks I could use them.. I > > have several systems that used the hard sectored ones but they're hard to > > come by. If you don't want to take time to sort them, I'll take the whole > > lot and sort them and pass the soft sectored ones on to someone else. > > > > > > > > > >PICEON 64K DRAM board > > > > OH! I can use this! I have one on my Alpha Micro and I could use another. > > > > >> > > >> Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board > > > > I won't mind having this. > > >> > > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > > >2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. > > > > I'd like to have this. > > >> > > >> Cromemco Dazzler video graphics board pair - There are two, but only one > > >set of doc's and software including paper tape. > > >> > > > > I hope you have my name on one of these. I'll make copies of the manual > > and disks to go with the other board. > > > > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > 215 Shady Lea Road, > North Kingstown, RI 02852 > > "Cast est qui nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 21 12:44:40 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: VT320 terminal Message-ID: <199902211844.AA28202@world.std.com> < In a thrift-shop I picked up a copy of of a DEC Installing and Using the V I have lots of vintage Silicon Graphics hard to find boards, O/S's, software, hard drives, tape drives, CD's, memory, systems and documentation, Los Angeles area. If its vintage SGI, I have it. I will trade, buy and sell it. File and media conversion for free. mikeparadiso@worldnet.att.net or call 323 462-5772 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990221/24c58885/attachment.html From max82 at surfree.com Sun Feb 21 13:07:39 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: VisiCalc 1.0 In-Reply-To: <022401be5d93$de8b4f40$32f665cb@default> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Phil Guerney wrote: >Well, my brown vinyl (pseudo-leather) binder is dated on the inside front >cover of the manual "5/81" and the disk says "Apple II and II Plus 48k 16 >Sector" (C) 1981 Part No. 10938-55100. The reference card is (C) 1979,1981. >Must be newer than the above. All the Visi series stuff I have seen has >always been in brown plastic binders. Max - check the edges of your "leather >binder" - if they are heat sealed, then it is plastic. But if it is really >leather (deluxe edition?), interesting and something to look out for. Naturally, it's fake leather, with some kind of soft stuffing inside. The point is that I've seen a black plastic version, and I'm not sure if it's newer or older. My Visicalc disk has the identical label, but the manuals say '4/81'. Ha! Beat you by a month! Mine also has the 'Software Arts Technical Note SATN-18 Programmer's Guide to DIF(tm) A Data Interchange Format'. It's a developer's guide to hacking Visicalc files. Do the rest of them have this also? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Feb 21 13:07:39 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: ESDI Drives and controllers Message-ID: <36D05979.714CB759@bigfoot.com> Have a bunch of working 5.25" full and half height drives, ESDI type, in working order to sell. Many of them are half height Seagate 89 mb and I have a few Maxtor 170 mb full height. Can be sold with or without contoller, which are mostly Seagate. Cables will be included with the full setups. These are AT controllers and will work in any machine with 16 bit ISA slots. You only need to set your CMOS to drive type 1 and the rest is done by the controller and drive. 89mb drive $8.50 plus ship 170 mb drive $12 plus ship Add $6 to either for controller and cables For those that want 2 drives and controller I'll go the price of 2 drives and include the controller free, with cables for 2 drives. Email me direct (not on the list) if interested. I really don't want to move this stuff come summer. Shipping will be by USPS parcel post from 40144 to you, insurance optional. USA and APO/FPO only. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Feb 21 14:39:56 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 In-Reply-To: <199902211723.AA03948@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 21, 1999 12:23:41 PM Message-ID: <199902212039.NAA19520@calico.litterbox.com> > > <>*sigh* Don Maslin just sent me the boot disk for my kaypro, and I find th > <>teledisk 2.12 doesn't like the floppy controller on my p2/300. I know th > <>floppy itself works, I formatted a 360k floppy on it, wrote data to it, re > <>it back, works fine under win95. > > W95 may be part of the problem. Also The boot disk may be wrong for your > kaypro! There were many models and a bunch of rom upgrades. > > Allison > Don asked me for the rom rev on my kaypro and matched it to the version of the boot disk. The problem I'm having is it won't write the floppy at all, it reads 25 tracks off the disk file and hangs or complains about my controller. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Feb 21 15:17:20 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: DEC manufacturer? Message-ID: <990221161720.21c0014a@trailing-edge.com> > Does anyone know if you can purchase "handles" like the ones that appear on > DEC OMNIBUS boards? (flip chip handles). One could drill out some old > boards and make them but I'd prefer to have a source of new ones if possible. Stu Phillips Co is still in business making handles. (Available in many colors and with custom stamping if you want, too.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From doug at blinkenlights.com Sun Feb 21 15:32:20 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: VisiCalc 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > >Well, my brown vinyl (pseudo-leather) binder is dated on the inside front > >cover of the manual "5/81" and the disk says "Apple II and II Plus 48k 16 > >Sector" (C) 1981 Part No. 10938-55100. The reference card is (C) 1979,1981. [...] > newer or older. My Visicalc disk has the identical label, but the manuals > say '4/81'. Ha! Beat you by a month! Mine also has the 'Software Arts > Technical Note SATN-18 Programmer's Guide to DIF(tm) A Data Interchange > Format'. It's a developer's guide to hacking Visicalc files. Do the rest > of them have this also? My brown vinyl binder includes a disk with a slightly earlier label: "Apple II and II Plus 32-48K", (C) 1979, and no p/n No technical notes, and the ref card is dated 9/79, as I mentioned earlier. So, I'll assume this was the first released version until somebody tells me of an earlier version. -- Doug From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Feb 21 16:37:11 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! Message-ID: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> Well, thanks to everyone with good suggestions, and especially thanks to Don for providing the boot disk image, I've been able to get the kaypro 4/84 to boot! It came up in conversation that there were later versions of teledisk, and after some heavy web searching I found one on a page for synthesiser users that works with my computer in a dos window, even. I guess I'll have to register it now. For reference, it's version 2.16. So now it's off to Oak for nifty apps, I guess. :) I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From gram at cnct.com Sun Feb 21 17:16:53 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat > cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? Sure. Grab the yoke on the back of the tube and twist it. Wear _real thick_ rubber gloves. Oops. I guess I should have mentioned that first. :-)} Tony (among others) has given good info on tube repair in the past. I've no idea what the current skinny on the list archive is (I'm missing maybe three weeks since Whitson started the list, so I haven't checked the official archive in a while -- problem is that my message base isn't indexed or have any kind of search mechanism except 'grep), but there's good material available there and better material when Tony checks his mail. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dburrows at netpath.net Sun Feb 21 15:46:33 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: VT320 terminal Message-ID: <000201be5def$11386cb0$0c0a0a0a@tower166.office> I have several here and they sell commercially VERY slowly. I have sold them in large quantity without keyboards for cheaper than that. If you ever need some let me know. I work with a couple of recyclers that love to have me take some off their hands for resale. They don't have to tear them down for certified disposal then. Dan In a thrift-shop I picked up a copy of of a DEC Installing and Using the VT320 terminal. Later I ran across the machine itself with K-B at the main store. I passed it by at the time since I had acquired a bunch of other equipment and couldn't handle it. It was only $15 , but I'm rapidly running out of space. Is it worthwhile going back for it ? Or is it fairly common and easily available ? ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From go at ao.com Sun Feb 21 17:19:11 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Test and Maintenance tools for vintage computers Message-ID: <4.1.19990221150523.034ef2e0@office.ao.com> My interest in vintage hardware certainly includes acquiring and restoring the hardware itself, getting copies (or originals if possible) of the manuals and other documentation, but also includes acquiring the original "tools" and other articles used to keep these old systems running. For example, I have several teletypes of various models, and Teletype corp was fond of having all sorts of special tools used to keep these things running smoothly. Items included special screwdrivers, burnishing tools for cleaning contacts and even a custom "tuning fork" for aligning the speed of the governored motor. I recall, for example, that our DEC field service engineer at Oregon State had a special "tuned hammer" for "thwacking" the circuit boards in our PDP-8 (straight-8) that ran our front-end terminal multiplexor. Basically it was a modified "center punch" with a special paddle in place of the sharp-pointy thing. You dialed in the amount of "thump" desired (in special DEC-calibrated units: (1-light to 9-break-the-edge-fingers) and pressed the tool against the card handle, pushing until the center-punch device clicked. All boards were supposed to take at least a "4" if I recall (any DEC FE's out there?) and any that didn't were replaced. So, what's the strangest "field service" tool out there? And what success have you all had in finding these things? For my teletypes, it's been a difficult task to find the pieces I have and I only have a few of the 30-some "official" tools TTY-corp produced for the model 14, 19 and 28 families. Seem to be a lot scarcer than the documents. Gary From lundo at interport.net Sun Feb 21 18:05:03 1999 From: lundo at interport.net (Robert Lund) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <9902219196.AA919641527@mail.postperfect.com> Doug Auerbach wrote: > I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or > TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one > (not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. I've got a TS-802H, in storage with my PDP-11's etc. I'm planning to unearth all this old stuff now that I have a place with a basement. I've got a lot of files on the TS' hard disk, which I'd want to look through before even thinking of selling it. I'm not sure how much time I can devote to restoring my ancient toys, but it worked last time I booted it a few years ago. Internal HD and 4.5-inch diskette drive to the left of the monitor screen. I have the User and Maintenance Manuals, with complete schematics, which may be useful to you. It has some pretty fancy high-speed serial port capability, used for the networked systems. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + Robert Lund | Out here on the perimeter there are no stars + + lundo@interport.net | Out here we is stoned - Immaculate + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 21 19:14:19 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 In-Reply-To: <199902210719.AAA17055@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > *sigh* Don Maslin just sent me the boot disk for my kaypro, and I find that > teledisk 2.12 doesn't like the floppy controller on my p2/300. I know the > floppy itself works, I formatted a 360k floppy on it, wrote data to it, read > it back, works fine under win95. > > Suggestions? You might see if you can get a copy of v2.14 that was on the CP/M CDROM. It is capable of handling higher speeds - whether that high, I do not know. - don From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 21 19:15:34 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: teledisk2.12 In-Reply-To: <19990221080232208.AAA199@fuj03> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Didn't the Kaypro use 1K sectors? ...and why do I have the impression that > the Kaypro had a WD 1770 or 1772 (28-pin) FDC on it? I used to swap disks > with the AMPRO which was like this all the time. It's been a long time > though . . . > > Dick No, Kaypro used 10 x 512 sectors per track. - don From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Sun Feb 21 19:21:50 1999 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Test and Maintenance tools for vintage computers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221150523.034ef2e0@office.ao.com> from Gary Oliver at "Feb 21, 1999 3:19:11 pm" Message-ID: <199902220121.UAA40952@shell.monmouth.com> > I recall, for example, that our DEC field service engineer at Oregon State > had a special "tuned hammer" for "thwacking" the circuit boards in our PDP-8 > (straight-8) that ran our front-end terminal multiplexor. Basically it was > a modified "center punch" with a special paddle in place of the sharp-pointy > thing. You dialed in the amount of "thump" desired (in special DEC-calibrated > units: (1-light to 9-break-the-edge-fingers) and pressed the tool against > the card handle, pushing until the center-punch device clicked. All boards > were supposed to take at least a "4" if I recall (any DEC FE's out there?) > and any that didn't were replaced. > > Gary By the time I came along, Field Service had a brass hammer and that one was the standard field service suitcase item from Jensen Tools. Nothing that slick. My favorite wierd tool -- RA81 insertion and rail mounting tool... (Hydraulic lift armless secretary chair from some office on the way to the computer room).. or the plastic pipe used to catch falling RP06 motors. Bill ex-DEC Field Service (1981-86) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 21 19:29:47 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: DEC manufacturer? References: <990221161720.21c0014a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <36D0B30B.5FC53487@mcmanis.com> Great, do you have any additional contact information (perhaps a city or country?) --Chuck CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > Does anyone know if you can purchase "handles" like the ones that appear on > > DEC OMNIBUS boards? (flip chip handles). One could drill out some old > > boards and make them but I'd prefer to have a source of new ones if possible. > > Stu Phillips Co is still in business making handles. > (Available in many colors and with custom stamping if you want, too.) > > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 21 17:50:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Feb 21, 99 03:37:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2195 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990221/c5474eea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 21 18:02:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: from "Ward D. Griffiths III" at Feb 21, 99 06:16:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 657 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/7e5f8ac6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 21 18:13:49 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Test and Maintenance tools for vintage computers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221150523.034ef2e0@office.ao.com> from "Gary Oliver" at Feb 21, 99 03:19:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2376 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/2aee4a8b/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 22:09:39 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: VT320 terminal In-Reply-To: <199902211421.JAA09165@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221220939.4477f8d0@intellistar.net> Larry, You should always grab docs like that IMHO. They seem to be a lot harder to come by than the hardware. I have a set of docs for the old Televideo 970(?) terminal and the DEC VT-420. Joe At 09:22 AM 2/21/99 +0000, you wrote: > In a thrift-shop I picked up a copy of of a DEC Installing and Using the VT320 >terminal. Later I ran across the machine itself with K-B at the main store. I >passed it by at the time since I had acquired a bunch of other equipment and >couldn't handle it. > It was only $15 , but I'm rapidly running out of space. Is it worthwhile going >back for it ? Or is it fairly common and easily available ? > >ciao larry >lwalker@interlog.com > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 22:27:02 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221222702.305faad2@intellistar.net> At 06:16 PM 2/21/99 -0500, you wrote: >On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > >> I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat >> cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? > >Sure. Grab the yoke on the back of the tube and twist it. Wear >_real thick_ rubber gloves. Oops. I guess I should have mentioned >that first. :-)} Turn it off first or you'll be cocked! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 21 22:32:53 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990221223253.2ff794c6@intellistar.net> At 11:50 PM 2/21/99 +0000, you wrote: >> I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat >> cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? > >Define 'cockeyed'... Twisted. From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Feb 21 20:28:15 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: CRT rebuilding Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990221211416.009ce670@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:02 AM 2/22/99 +0000, Tony Duell said something like: >> >> On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: >> >> > I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat >> > cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? Tony, "cockeyed" is an Americanism for kattywampus :-) :-) :-) Or, in more standard terms, not straight, twisted, mispositioned, etc. >> >> Tony (among others) has given good info on tube repair in the past. > >Talking of which, has anyone got any hints for rebuilding defective >CRTs? It seems like some madman on this list would have a vacuum setup... There are some folks Stateside who do rebuild television CRTs. I have not had a need to search them out yet as my TVs in the collection either seem to work well enough or I have no desire to get a gassy or tired CRT rebuilt as the there is something else presently unrepairable on the chassis. (Last count I've got around 12 or so pre-1952 TVs in the collection.) I wonder if by now those rebuilder folks are getting into computer monitor CRT rebuilding? Hmm, I gotta keep my eye open for rebuilders. (Bill Donzelli: have you heard of any rebuilders? I suppose I could check with Harry Poster and see what he does or scour ARC.) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 21 21:52:30 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) Message-ID: Iredeived the following e-mail today. Anyone interested should reply directly to the original sender. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:40:03 -0600 From: rick To: donm@cts.com Subject: Big Board cpm system board D; I have an old "Big Board" cpm computer pcb (unpopulated) that I bought in the early '80's (I think), I have docs for it and a flopy controller chip for it. Is there anyone who might be interested in this. I'd probably sell it for what I payed for it. Otherwise perhaps it should just be frammed and put up on a wall... ? Know anyone who might desire it ? R. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 21 21:59:07 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) Message-ID: <19990222035720610.AAA217@fuj03> Maybe it would be well to send this fellow a spell-checker . . . ? ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:52 PM > > > Iredeived the following e-mail today. Anyone interested should reply > directly to the original sender. > - don > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:40:03 -0600 > From: rick > To: donm@cts.com > Subject: Big Board cpm system board > > D; > I have an old "Big Board" cpm computer pcb (unpopulated) that I bought in > the early '80's (I think), I have docs for it and a flopy controller chip > for it. Is there anyone who might be interested in this. I'd probably sell > it for what I payed for it. Otherwise perhaps it should just be frammed and > put up on a wall... ? > Know anyone who might desire it ? > R. > From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 21 22:12:12 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > Well, thanks to everyone with good suggestions, and especially thanks to Don > for providing the boot disk image, I've been able to get the kaypro 4/84 to > boot! It came up in conversation that there were later versions of teledisk, > and after some heavy web searching I found one on a page for synthesiser users > that works with my computer in a dos window, even. I guess I'll have to > register it now. For reference, it's version 2.16. You can not. Sydex took TeleDisk off of shareware in about 1992 IIRC. There was too much abuse usage, I gathered. > So now it's off to Oak for nifty apps, I guess. :) > > I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat > cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? With the power off and some time passed to let everything discharge, loosen the clamp screws and rotate the yoke on the CRT neck. Check it, and repeat as necessary. When it is right, tighten the clamp screws. Please be careful, as there are very high voltages in that area that linger for a while after shutdown. - don From jlwest at tseinc.com Sun Feb 21 22:12:50 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: MISC HP docs - mainly 3000 series, terminals, etc. Message-ID: <002301be5e19$9de868c0$0101a8c0@jay> Hey folks; I was digging up some HP2000 info for the 13210 controller, but also saw the following manuals which I probably don't need as they appear 3000 related. If anyone is in need, they are... Installation and Service 29425a cabinet HP3000 series II system service manual HP3000 series II system installation manual HP3000 series II system microprogram listing HP3000 series II microprogramming language description Maintenance manual 30032B asynchronous terminal controller for HP 3000 Maintenance manual 30115a 9 track NRZI-PE mag tape subsystem for HP3000 CE service handbook for 7911/12/14, CS/80, 7941/45, 9145A CE service handbook for 300H, 300S, 9144A, 9145A, 35401A, diagnostics Operators manual 7961b, 7962b, 7963b Plus manuals for the following terminals: Microterm Act I, Act IV, Act V, Mime2, Mime340, Ergo2000 Televideo 910 Beehive minibee 4 Hazeltine 1500 Here's the disclaimer - I haven't dug into these manuals in detail, but on the surface they seem to not apply to my interest areas. If there's one you want, let me know. If after looking at it more closely I find it is applicable to 2000/21mx hardware that I have or plan to acquire shortly, I'll only provide copies not originals. BTW - still looking for a 2748A/B type paper tape reader, and always 7900a disc drives! Jay West From at258 at osfn.org Sun Feb 21 22:24:06 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Wang 2200 In-Reply-To: <002301be5e19$9de868c0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: Do any of you guys ever run across Wang 2200 accessories? We're looking for the tape reader and the card reader. From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 21 22:35:33 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) In-Reply-To: <19990222035720610.AAA217@fuj03> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Maybe it would be well to send this fellow a spell-checker . . . ? I think I am the one with the 'fumble-fingers'! - don > ---------- > > From: Don Maslin > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) > > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:52 PM > > > > > > Iredeived the following e-mail today. Anyone interested should reply > > directly to the original sender. > > - don From erd at infinet.com Sun Feb 21 22:47:53 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 20, 99 11:43:27 pm Message-ID: <199902220447.XAA28478@user2.infinet.com> > > On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Unusual systems wrote: > > > I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentative > > Besides the ones everybody has, I have an early DEC handbook: > Digital Logic Handbook, Sept 1960 > > -- Doug That's got me beat: I've got 1967-68, but nothing older. -ethan From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Feb 21 22:55:15 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: SoCal TRW Swapmeet Message-ID: My... where *does* the time go? Why, just last month, it seems, I was posting a similar message to this List: Saturdak, 27 Februark (dates adjusted to comply with Y-to-K conversion) 1999 is yats... Yet Another TRW Swapmeet. Any classiccmpers or others who will be in the Southern California area on Saturdak the 27th are invited to drop by and try to get some of the goodies before Marvin and myself scoop them all up. In Los Angeles, from the 405 (San Diego) freeway, take the Rosecrans exit west, go one mile to Aviation, turn left (south) under the Metroline bridge, go south about 1/2 mile... the Event will be on the west side of Aviation in the southernmost parking lots of the TRW El Segundo facility. Time is from 07:30 to 11:30 local, 15:30 to 19:30Z. I (and Marvin) will occupy spaces J21 and J23, and I will offer good company and pretty good food to any who wish to join us for an after-swap Classiccmp get-together. Last time there were eight of us... the more the merrier. If you have a few items to exchange for other items, or to sell to get money to *buy* more items... you are welcome to bring them by and display them to the Wandering Crowds. Let me know in advance if you plan on this, so Logistics may be considered.... and so I can get one up on Marvin in case you have something we both want. ;} And now back to your Regular List Programming. Cheerz John From erd at infinet.com Sun Feb 21 22:52:52 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Latest finds In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 20, 99 06:53:08 pm Message-ID: <199902220452.XAA28614@user2.infinet.com> > > > One of these drives has a little switch inside which allows you to > > use the drive either as an RL01 or as an RL02! > > That's an unofficial mod that is reasonably common. Basically, the switch > changes the link settings on the logic and DC servo boards to make the > drive behave as an RL01. > > Watch out, though. The RL02 heads write a narrower track than the RL01 > heads, and if you write to an RL01 pack in your drive, it's possible that > a real RL01 won't be able to read it. Reading RL01 packs is safe, though. The DEC FS guy that showed me a drive that he had mod-ed also mentioned that the same set of switches he flipped, also included a "force write protect" to prevent accidental writing of RL02-width tracks on an RL01 pack. Seems prudent. It no doubt paralleled the switch on the front panel. Disclaimer: I have never installed this mod on any DEC drive, but it sounds pretty safe. YMMV. -ethan From jpero at cgocable.net Mon Feb 22 00:52:22 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Alldata System 3 (!!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990219194655.456f1cc0@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902220649.BAA09904@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! While looking at the bottom with bottom cover removed, of the Alldata System 3, It's 1989 classic machine as you will see. I became very suspcious feeling it's vaguely famillar looking looking at that motherboard. Unscrew the "Alldata" add on board to reveal partly hidden to see whole board and... It's Atari ST series! Whaaat? What it has: old style 68000 DIP IC, soldered 32 x 256K x 1bit DRAM DIPs (1MB), internal 34pin FD, ASCI "internal" where a external port used to be hooking to the "Alldata addon board that sports extra roms for fonts, scsi, bit of circuitry for Keyboard and mouse and also for the Alldata's internal thermal printer. The original Atari motherboard retains game cartidge, monitor port oddball 10 pin type that is external hooks to a relabeled "Alldata" standard atari mono monitor, standard atari mouse and parallel and one more port. I have the Atari's motherboard ID number to help determine exact type of this one: C070523-001 Rev D1 Thanks! Repaired it and found out that any oldstyle MS white dovebar mouse ball fits nicely if you have a atari mouse with lost mouse ball. Turned out wrong boot disk was used rendering the cdrom reader useless. Whew. The old Toshiba 1X caddy cdrom drive in it is complex animal, lots of work to take apart and assembling. That drive tricked anyone who is not used to "hold that eject button until caddy ejects". Including me! Hehehehe! I have another newer Alldata machine PSU repair in progress. It's built out of stock peecee parts based on pentium 75 only difference is a special ISA card that drive the built in thermal printer. Uses SCSI cdrom and standard adaptec 1610/1615 adapter. Running win95sux. I got the machine back to owner using peecee PSU and had told owner to use standard parallel printer while fixing the alldata PSU, all thermal printers in them is 24VDC juice. Alldata is still around but no longer doing hardware, just software side with automotive database. alldata.com Wizard From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Feb 22 02:35:42 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: (message from Don Maslin on Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:12:12 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990222083542.20309.qmail@brouhaha.com> > You can not. Sydex took TeleDisk off of shareware in about 1992 IIRC. > There was too much abuse usage, I gathered. IIRC, the license it came with said that you could use it if you sent them money, and that you could redistribute copies of it. They can't rescind that. They can refuse to take your money when you offer it, but that doesn't mean that you can't use the program. However, they aren't obligated to provide any support or updates. Note that the license for the shareware version doesn't entitle you to run a later non-shareware version. That's my understanding, FWIW, but IANAL. Eric From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Feb 22 05:24:41 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <017301be5ac3$11d1d780$01010101@amranhqpo000000.jps.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Buck Savage wrote: > In this paper, Apple Worm, I provide a detailed design of a virus > program which would operate upon Apple II computers, via the > Hello program mechanism. I'm just butting in to mention that there is an interesting article about an early Apple ][ virus at: http://memex.org/cm-archive14.html Search for "A (long) story about an (old) Apple ][ virus". It was an article forwarded to the CYHIST Community Memory list, originally from alt.hackers. > William R. Buckley -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Feb 22 09:47:49 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) Message-ID: <19990222154610125.AAA227@fuj03> Nope . . . yours was a "typergeographical" error . . . I was referring to the OTHER email . . . the one you had received . . . we all suffer from that "rented finger" syndrome from time to time . . . the other author didn't know when to quit, e.g. "flopy" and "frammed." Now that my kids are gone I've got to nag at someone. Dick ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 9:35 PM > > On Sun, 21 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Maybe it would be well to send this fellow a spell-checker . . . ? > > I think I am the one with the 'fumble-fingers'! > > - don > > > ---------- > > > From: Don Maslin > > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > > Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) > > > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 8:52 PM > > > > > > > > > Iredeived the following e-mail today. Anyone interested should reply > > > directly to the original sender. > > > - don From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 22 10:56:47 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: SoCal TRW Swapmeet References: Message-ID: <36D18C4F.1B4CB68A@rain.org> John Lawson wrote: > > Saturdak, 27 Februark (dates adjusted to comply with Y-to-K > conversion) 1999 is yats... Yet Another TRW Swapmeet. Any > classiccmpers or others who will be in the Southern California area > on Saturdak the 27th are invited to drop by and try to get some of > the goodies before Marvin and myself scoop them all up. > If you have a few items to exchange for other items, or to sell to > get money to *buy* more items... you are welcome to bring them by > and display them to the Wandering Crowds. Let me know in advance if > you plan on this, so Logistics may be considered.... and so I can get > one up on Marvin in case you have something we both want. ;} Judging from the last TRW, it is Doug you need to worry about, not me :). And of course, I also would like to encourage anyone down in the LA area to attend. It is a great place to discuss classic computers as well as exchange some of that heavy stuff that would cost more to ship than it might be worth. The "good" stuff is usually hidden or buried, but that is one of the things that make this type of swap meet a lot of fun: rummaging through stuff to find those bargains. From wanderer at bos.nl Mon Feb 22 13:02:59 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Latest finds References: <199902220452.XAA28614@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <36D1A9E3.5E9D@bos.nl> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > The DEC FS guy that showed me a drive that he had mod-ed also mentioned > that the same set of switches he flipped, also included a "force write > protect" to prevent accidental writing of RL02-width tracks on an RL01 > pack. Seems prudent. It no doubt paralleled the switch on the front panel. > > Disclaimer: I have never installed this mod on any DEC drive, but it sounds > pretty safe. YMMV. > > -ethan Based on Ethan's and Tony's information, what are then the differences between both types, just the track width (i.e. size of the head) and a few jumpers on the locig board? Or is there more? Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From erd at infinet.com Mon Feb 22 11:24:11 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Latest finds In-Reply-To: <36D1A9E3.5E9D@bos.nl> from "wanderer" at Feb 22, 99 06:02:59 pm Message-ID: <199902221724.MAA04875@user2.infinet.com> > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > The DEC FS guy that showed me a drive that he had mod-ed also mentioned > > that the same set of switches he flipped, also included a "force write > > protect" to prevent accidental writing of RL02-width tracks on an RL01 > > pack. Seems prudent. It no doubt paralleled the switch on the front panel > > Based on Ethan's and Tony's information, what are then the differences > between both types, just the track width (i.e. size of the head) and a > few jumpers on the locig board? Or is there more? More exactly, there exist some models of RL02's and RL01's that have identical boards, different heads and three or five jumpers that are different. There are also drives that have boards that are *not* interchangable. You must check part numbers to be sure. -ethan From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 22 11:34:46 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . . In-Reply-To: <19990220185103495.AAA89@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990222113446.00c9f8d0@pc> I prefer the method of the United Parcel Service (UPS) "call tag," where you can arrange to have a box picked up from someone else's location at no charge to them. This reduces the effort to boxing the equipment, and largely removes the complaint that it's tough to get to the UPS / P.O. etc. office. I believe they can even pick up something from the porch if you're not there. - John From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun Feb 21 23:21:47 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Cromemco Dazzler In-Reply-To: References: <19990220154801364.AAC137@fuj03> Message-ID: >On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> I was digging throught the pile of "stuff" from days of old, and find I >> have a board-set (S-100) which is a Cromemco (remember them?) Dazzler video > >Certainly do. Just ran across some Cromemco manuals at the Junque >shop - a HD5 hard disk and most interestingly, a Cromemco Network >Interface, dated April 83, chock full of details. Appearently they >used their own propriatary 'C-Net' (twin-ax), only does 500 kbits/s >but I guess it was cheaper than Ethernet at the time - chart >compares $1000/node for c-net vs $6000/node for Ethernet (hard to >imagine now that we're buying 100Mbps nics for <$30!) I have some Mac Nubus cards with a switch that selects Cnet or normal ethernet.(might be token, I could look if anyone was real curious). From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Mon Feb 22 11:34:06 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <80256720.006129C4.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Greetings, Classic Computer Fans, Hello Rick! This is definitely the place to be! > I have a few older computers that I've run across, mostly as orphans. > These include a Tandy 100 (who doesn't have one of these?), a Tandy 600, a > Sun 3/50, a Sun 4/360, A couple of Tektronix 6130's, a Tektronix 4132, and > a Tektronix 4319. I worked at Tektronix for 13 years, from '77 through '90, > so I have a particular affection for Tektronix equipment. Do you know anything about the 4050 series? Joe Rigdon (who made sarcastic remarks about Tek 31 calculators) has a 4051 (as do one or two others on the list) and I have a 4052 and we are both avidly hunting useful info and/or documentation. > I'm looking forward to sharing memories with the list, and, as mentioned, > hearing about your memories, and all the great collector finds out there. You'll certainly have fun, then. Welcome to the list. Philip. From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 22 13:49:49 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Disk Drives References: <80256720.006129C4.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <36D1B4DD.2CBD173D@rain.org> I just got a call from a friend of mine who asked me about some Micropolis drives. Apparently there are several different model numbers, but the one he gave me was a 1568. His indication was that these were new in the box, full-height drives, and this one was 750 MB. It sounds like they are for sale at about $10 each, maybe less (there are 20 or so.) Anyone know what these were used for or what they might go to? They will end up being scrapped in the near future (couple of days to a week so I was told.) From jpero at cgocable.net Mon Feb 22 14:12:32 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <36D1B4DD.2CBD173D@rain.org> Message-ID: <199902222009.PAA13064@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:49:49 -0800 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Marvin To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Disk Drives > I just got a call from a friend of mine who asked me about some Micropolis > drives. Apparently there are several different model numbers, but the one > he gave me was a 1568. His indication was that these were new in the box, > full-height drives, and this one was 750 MB. It sounds like they are for > sale at about $10 each, maybe less (there are 20 or so.) Anyone know what > these were used for or what they might go to? They will end up being > scrapped in the near future (couple of days to a week so I was told.) > Marvin, Those are appox 670MB formatted NOT 750 and is ESDI. There are two models for this 1568 identified by a dash and a 2 digits. -14 and -15. Handle them VERY carefully because they have massive 8 platters inside or for all drives. I had two priam 150MB and 300MB die from rough handling before I got them when I looked at platters were pitted when removed from both and blew $80 total on both in '95. Alienated a user I sold that drive to. Grrr. Are they still originally boxed as intended from Micropolis? Micropolis is gone out of business for 2 years now. Could you request your friend for all models #'s from your friend's some is of interest to classic users. One model is hardly a info as I wondered what else if I could use one if I see a certain model. Wizard From amirault at epix.net Mon Feb 22 14:24:28 1999 From: amirault at epix.net (John Amirault) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:19 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! References: <199902212237.PAA20173@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <36D1BCFC.277D00BC@epix.net> Jim, Put a book under the low side of the monitor. : ) John Amirault Jim Strickland wrote: > Well, thanks to everyone with good suggestions, and especially thanks to Don > for providing the boot disk image, I've been able to get the kaypro 4/84 to > boot! It came up in conversation that there were later versions of teledisk, > and after some heavy web searching I found one on a page for synthesiser users > that works with my computer in a dos window, even. I guess I'll have to > register it now. For reference, it's version 2.16. > > So now it's off to Oak for nifty apps, I guess. :) > > I do have another question: the image on my kaypro's screen is somewhat > cockeyed. Is there an easy fix for this? > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon Feb 22 13:22:58 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: from "Ward D. Griffiths III" at Feb 21, 99 06:16:53 pm Message-ID: >> Tony (among others) has given good info on tube repair in the past. > >Talking of which, has anyone got any hints for rebuilding defective >CRTs? It seems like some madman on this list would have a vacuum setup... The general rule among people I know is LEAVE THE TUBE ALONE. If you have two units, one with a bad tube and one with bad electronics, move the electronics, not the tube. etc etc. Handling a CRT is just too dangerous. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 13:04:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: CRT rebuilding Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990221211416.009ce670@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Feb 21, 99 09:28:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1222 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/57349a64/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 13:22:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Latest finds In-Reply-To: <36D1A9E3.5E9D@bos.nl> from "wanderer" at Feb 22, 99 06:02:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1661 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/b8de0130/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Mon Feb 22 15:21:59 1999 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The general rule among people I know is LEAVE THE TUBE ALONE. If you have > two units, one with a bad tube and one with bad electronics, move the > electronics, not the tube. etc etc. Handling a CRT is just too dangerous. Generally wise advise, but probably because of the economies. Replacing a tube (or any of the other high voltage stuff) can turn your wallet inside out. As far as actually handling a tube - no they really are not very dangerous. If one makes sure to drain any high voltage points (twice for each, at least), follow all of the other high voltage advice already given (and probably in the FAQ), and do not drop the tube, you will be fine. Post 1960 CRTs are actually quite tough and will sustain a great deal of physical abuse. When they break, the neck shatters first and lets all the air in. The days of the nasty implosions due to no safety glass are gone. William Donzelli william@ans.net From red at bears.org Mon Feb 22 15:35:56 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, William Donzelli wrote: > Post 1960 CRTs are actually quite tough and will sustain a great deal of > physical abuse. When they break, the neck shatters first and lets all the > air in. The days of the nasty implosions due to no safety glass are gone. Hm. You're certain? I have this disembodied memory of seeing a box in my parents' shed in the early '80s, with an implosion hazard warning emblazoned on. I'm fairly sure it was the box for their old TRS-80 Model III, but it is possible it belonged to their Zenith TV they'd just bought. Maybe it was just a bozo-warning. ok r. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Feb 22 15:42:44 1999 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Info on Storage Dimensions SCSI external drives needed Message-ID: <36D1CF53.83276312@bigfoot.com> I just obtained (and I shouldn't have) a nice unit. It is an externla case made for 2 external drives, ith 2 full height 760mb SCSI hard drives enclosed. Of course I've already been inside of it - what would everyoe think of me if I hadn't been? Anyway, it's a Storage Solutions (of San Jose, CA) model LAN2-1300S2PX and I was wondering if anyone else has one, dealt with one, or has actual tech/users manuals they might be nice enough to photocopy. No. I haven't tried to contact this company yet but I will later today. Thanks for any help in advance. From william at ans.net Mon Feb 22 15:50:34 1999 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hm. You're certain? I have this disembodied memory of seeing a box in my > parents' shed in the early '80s, with an implosion hazard warning > emblazoned on. I'm fairly sure it was the box for their old TRS-80 Model > III, but it is possible it belonged to their Zenith TV they'd just bought. > > Maybe it was just a bozo-warning. Yes, mostly. Sure, whacking the side of any CRT is foolish and will spread bits of glass all over the place, but so will whacking a glass jug of apple cider. Whacking an oldie CRT like a 10BP4 - umm, just do not do it. William Donzelli william@ans.net From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon Feb 22 15:33:35 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <36D1B4DD.2CBD173D@rain.org> References: <80256720.006129C4.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: >I just got a call from a friend of mine who asked me about some Micropolis >drives. Apparently there are several different model numbers, but the one >he gave me was a 1568. His indication was that these were new in the box, >full-height drives, and this one was 750 MB. It sounds like they are for >sale at about $10 each, maybe less (there are 20 or so.) Anyone know what >these were used for or what they might go to? They will end up being >scrapped in the near future (couple of days to a week so I was told.) Micropolis went belly up last year from poor quality and high returns. About a year after bankruptcy most of the assets went over the auction block, and are flowing into the resale market. I wouldn't buy one of their drives at any price, but I know people who are or were Micropolis dealers that grab it up and sell it. Those big old drives are from raid arrays, and I even have some external cases they go in, but I can't recommend them to a end user unfamiliar with the products. Shipping weight is also a killer. From nfields at ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 22 15:59:10 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! References: <36D1CF53.83276312@bigfoot.com> Message-ID: <36D1D32E.8A07D526@ix.netcom.com> There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a portable altair 8800. Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) Here is the address for those interested.. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=69787811 Noel From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Feb 22 16:10:02 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! In-Reply-To: <36D1D32E.8A07D526@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you > altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a > portable altair 8800. > > Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) Nope... not even close. First glance at the pic on eBay hinted at a SWTPC origin, but the 'additional photos' page confirmed that it is a "TVT II" (TV Typewriter II). A early video terminal kit, that someone installed in a nice box and added a cutdown ID plate (sad waste of the plate) off of an Altair 8800. Perhaps this is what they used as the terminal for their Altair, so they thought the ID tag was appropriate/cute... > Here is the address for those interested.. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=69787811 Fairly well done tho... but $100 opening bid?!? Think it needs a 'decimal shift left' about two places... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 22 16:18:59 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! In-Reply-To: <36D1D32E.8A07D526@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you > altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a > portable altair 8800. > > Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) It's a terminal (TV Typewriter) that somebody stuck an Altair sticker on, AFAICT. I don't think any part of it is from MITS, except for the sticker. -- Doug From max82 at surfree.com Mon Feb 22 17:06:23 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Textfiles.com Message-ID: Slashdot today reported on an apparently new site, www.textfiles.com. It is a huge archive of various plain-text files, some classic-computer related, and certainly PC Clone related. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Feb 22 17:10:58 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.19990222171352.009afd00@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 04:35 PM 2/22/99 -0500, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) said something like: >On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, William Donzelli wrote: > >> Post 1960 CRTs are actually quite tough and will sustain a great deal of >> physical abuse. When they break, the neck shatters first and lets all the >> air in. The days of the nasty implosions due to no safety glass are gone. > >Hm. You're certain? I have this disembodied memory of seeing a box in my >parents' shed in the early '80s, with an implosion hazard warning >emblazoned on. I'm fairly sure it was the box for their old TRS-80 Model >III, but it is possible it belonged to their Zenith TV they'd just bought. > >Maybe it was just a bozo-warning. Yes it probably was a bozo-warning (I like that expression. Gotta remember it. :) I've handled CRTs since I was 11 or 12 (33-34 yrs ago). There were those that were dead and had to be disposed of from a set I was repairing. When throwing them into the town dump (that's back in the days before controlled landfills and waste management laws, etc.) I was able to observe that they would take quite a whack on the side of the large part of the envelope before they broke. BUT, when they did break, the implosion caused glass pieces to fly several meters distant. On the other hand, when just the neck got broke, there was usually a definite, brief "chufff" sound when the air rushed into the envelope and no other drastic action. Here's a story to illustrate effects of an implosion: Back when I was getting more and more into TV repairs during my 17th summer, there was a dead 19" 110 degree deflection CRT that I had to get rid of. It was setting on the ledge of the basement foundation wall. Dad was helping me sort out and haul some junk to the dump. That CRT had to go in that load. Dad figured he could simply break up that tube to save space on the load as we were using the rather small family car to haul it (a '65 Corvair). Well, as he'd never himself broke a CRT nor even seen what happens during an implosion he was unaware of the "proper" way to bust one up. He held a corrugated box under the edge of the wall where the tube was sitting, grabbed a hammer and gave the side of the envelope a firm whack. Naturally, just as I started to say "Don't hit it there!!", the deed was done. At least knew enough to hold his eyes closed. A few minutes later, after we both picked the broken glass out of our hair, we observed that the largest piece of that tube was not even the size of a fist. Mom came running downstairs and asked what in the world was going on with that loud 'bang' and glass shattering sounds. Took a while to get the place cleaned up. And you can bet that my mother was there watching us to make darn sure we _did_ clean it up well. Just understand the neck of a CRT is not so fragile to just break while twisting a yoke after its clamp is loosened. Use common sense while working around a CRT. Don't work in a tight area where you could turn around and accidentally bump the neck with your elbow. Have plenty room around the monitor while on the table or workbench. Don't drop tools onto the CRT (happened to me once --and _only_ once!). Careful of getting zapped by any unprotected parts of the yoke while under power and rotating it (you could jerk around and bump the neck). There usually is a part of the plastic yoke body with which you gould grasp while rotating. The high voltage lead going to the ultor connection on the side of the envelope handles about 15 to 18 thousand volts for a monochrome monitor. Don't get close to the lead or especially the ultor connection. Following these hints should help anybody here get through a simple yoke adjustment like this. Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 17:26:22 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Feb 22, 99 11:22:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4523 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/71e45d42/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 17:28:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Feb 22, 99 04:21:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 748 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/d1713c32/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 17:30:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Feb 22, 99 04:35:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 791 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/6f0db344/attachment.ksh From max82 at surfree.com Mon Feb 22 18:01:20 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990222171352.009afd00@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: >landfills and waste management laws, etc.) I was able to observe that they >would take quite a whack on the side of the large part of the envelope >before they broke. BUT, when they did break, the implosion caused glass >pieces to fly several meters distant. On the other hand, when just the neck >got broke, there was usually a definite, brief "chufff" sound when the air >rushed into the envelope and no other drastic action. I have punched my monitors with quite a bit of force, and they didn't break, so I know that much. I have also seen smashed TVs that had the same damage that I would expect from a pane of glass - just a partial fracture, and no total destruction. I have also had a neck break, and indeed, there were no problems. But, once, I dropped a TV, and the image was not only crooked, but one corner had a rainbow coloring to it. That went into the trash. I'm not sure why, but my parents are quite paranoid about TV repair. Some famous Russian person was killed by a TV that he was fixing, but there are rumors that this was due to sabotage of the TV. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 22 18:02:12 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. Message-ID: <199902230002.AA07359@world.std.com> <> > I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentati <> <> Besides the ones everybody has, I have an early DEC handbook: <> Digital Logic Handbook, Sept 1960 <> <> -- Doug < Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990222201130.490f1e62@intellistar.net> At 08:47 AM 2/22/99 -0700, Dick said: > >Now that my kids are gone I've got to nag at someone. > Gee, I'll bet you're glad one of them is moving back in! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 22 20:19:33 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <80256720.006129C4.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990222201933.49278d6a@intellistar.net> At 05:34 PM 2/22/99 +0000, Philip wrote: > > >> Greetings, Classic Computer Fans, > >Hello Rick! This is definitely the place to be! > > >Do you know anything about the 4050 series? Joe Rigdon (who made sarcastic >remarks about Tek 31 calculators) No, I wasn't being sarcastic about the Tek 31, I'm envious as hell! has a 4051 (as do one or two others on the >list) and I have a 4052 and we are both avidly hunting useful info and/or >documentation. Too late, I've already picked his brains about them. Rick and I have been E-mailing each other about them foe a while. I think I already forwarded everything that I got from him to you. BTW did you get the Tek ROM from Zane yet? Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 22 18:46:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 22, 99 07:01:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4270 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990223/6474bdd6/attachment.ksh From fauradon at pclink.com Mon Feb 22 19:09:03 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! Message-ID: <004601be5ec9$21eefb20$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Does anyone has an ALTAIR sticker that they don't need? I'm trying to get rid of a C64 and would like to get lots of money for it. Francois PS: ;) -----Original Message----- From: Noel Fields To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 4:01 PM Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! >There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you >altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a >portable altair 8800. > >Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) > >Here is the address for those interested.. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=69787811 > >Noel > From mikeford at netwiz.net Mon Feb 22 19:58:01 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Feb 22, 99 11:22:58 am Message-ID: >> The general rule among people I know is LEAVE THE TUBE ALONE. If you have >> two units, one with a bad tube and one with bad electronics, move the >> electronics, not the tube. etc etc. Handling a CRT is just too dangerous. > >Now, what does the FAQ say about there being some clueful people here ? :-) > >CRTs are not _that_ dangerous if you know what you are doing. I must have >handled a dozen CRTs in the last month and I am still typing with all my >fingers ;-). Sure, they can be nasty if you are careless, but that >applies to just about everything I work with. I do something stupid at least once a day. I like to play with dangerous toys, but I also know enough about statistics not to make the habit too regular. If I was working with CRTs a lot, I assume after a few weeks if I lived I would develope some level of skill, but as a tinkerer, I'll pass. YMMV From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 22 20:08:32 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Disk Drives References: <199902222009.PAA13064@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <36D20DA0.8F9247FD@rain.org> > > I just got a call from a friend of mine who asked me about some Micropolis > > drives. Apparently there are several different model numbers, but the one > > he gave me was a 1568. His indication was that these were new in the box, > > full-height drives, and this one was 750 MB. It sounds like they are for > > sale at about $10 each, maybe less (there are 20 or so.) Anyone know what > > these were used for or what they might go to? They will end up being > > scrapped in the near future (couple of days to a week so I was told.) > > > > > Are they still originally boxed as intended from Micropolis? > Micropolis is gone out of business for 2 years now. > > Could you request your friend for all models #'s from your friend's > some is of interest to classic users. I have not seen them, but I am told they are in original Micropolis boxes. The model numbers and quantities that he has right now now are: 4 ea - 1568 4 ea - 1518 4 ea - 1538 9 ea - 1558 He indicated there may be more, but had no idea what the model numbers might be. From ss at allegro.com Mon Feb 22 20:26:06 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Apollo Cartridge Tapes Message-ID: <199902230226.SAA64959@bart.allegro.com> Hi, I've got five Apollo cartridge tapes that might be of interest to Apollo collectors: 1) System Release Ver SR10.1 RAI (three tapes) 015366 (and 015367, and 015368) REV. 00 CRTG_STD_SFW_1 (and _2 and _3) 2) 015365 REC.00 CRTG_STD_SFW_BOOT_1 SYSTEM RELEASE VER SR10.1 RAI 3) (hand written label) SPE VER 1.3 SOURCE AREA If you're interested, let me know. sieler@allegro.com From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Feb 22 20:29:09 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: FWD: Anyone interested in tons of various PDP-11/780 and 785 boards Message-ID: <4.1.19990222212221.009a2a50@206.231.8.2> Hey big and little iron fans: Found this in the ng comp.os.vms under title "Anyone interested in tons of various PDP-11/780 and 785 boards". Looks like the scrapper mentioned has some interesting stuff in addition to DEC which he may sell just for scrap price if the price is right. A few of you are from down in VA area I believe. Comments? Was posted to several other ng's too. On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:19:31 GMT, Kent Rankin wrote: > I know of a metal scrapper in VA that has tons of PDP(/VAX)-11/780 >and 11/785 in his yard. With them are lots of other boxes(CDC, IBM, >Intergraph, etc.). > > The PDP-11/78x's are packed with boards, all the way across. A >fellow that was with me, when I checked them out, used to work for >Intergraph(when they used PDP-11 and VAX) said that they all had 32MB of >RAM. > > My question here lies with the acquisition of them. Would anyone be >willing to pay some cash for them? The fellow is having a hard >year(making much less than normal), and could use some help. The way I >figure it, someone might need some of the boards. Just a shot in the >dark, really. > > There are also some "floating point accelerators". They are made by >Floating Point Systems. > > Tons of Power Supplies for the PDP's(H7-somethingorothers). Loads >of hard drives and stuff. > > Anyhow, if anyone can help on this one, do tell me. > > > >Thanks in advance, > >Kent Rankin > Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From at258 at osfn.org Mon Feb 22 20:32:10 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! In-Reply-To: <36D1D32E.8A07D526@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: I believe the Otrona Attache was made from an Altair chassis. On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you > altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a > portable altair 8800. > > Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) > > Here is the address for those interested.. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=69787811 > > Noel > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ddameron at earthlink.net Mon Feb 22 18:12:31 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990222181231.214f4b2a@earthlink.net> Hi All, At 04:21 PM 2/22/99 -0500, William wrote: > >As far as actually handling a tube - no they really are not very >dangerous. If one makes sure to drain any high voltage points (twice for >each, at least), follow all of the other high voltage advice already given >(and probably in the FAQ), and do not drop the tube, you will be fine. >Post 1960 CRTs are actually quite tough and will sustain a great deal of >physical abuse. When they break, the neck shatters first and lets all the >air in. The days of the nasty implosions due to no safety glass are gone. > There may be safety glass on the front, but the back sure can implode, not just the neck. I once had a b/w TV CRT face down in a open cardboard box and something heavy fell on it :-(. That's one way to learn not to put one into that position again. -Dave From jpero at cgocable.net Mon Feb 22 21:23:18 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Disk Drives In-Reply-To: <36D20DA0.8F9247FD@rain.org> Message-ID: <199902230320.WAA28139@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:08:32 -0800 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Marvin To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Disk Drives > > > I just got a call from a friend of mine who asked me about some > > > Micropolis drives. Apparently there are several different model > > > numbers, but the one he gave me was a 1568. His indication was that > > > these were new in the box, full-height drives, and this one was 750 > > > MB. It sounds like they are for sale at about $10 each, maybe less > > > (there are 20 or so.) Anyone know what these were used for or what > > > they might go to? They will end up being scrapped in the near future > > > (couple of days to a week so I was told.) > > > > > > > > > Are they still originally boxed as intended from Micropolis? > > Micropolis is gone out of business for 2 years now. > > > > Could you request your friend for all models #'s from your friend's some > > is of interest to classic users. > > I have not seen them, but I am told they are in original Micropolis boxes. > > The model numbers and quantities that he has right now now are: > > 4 ea - 1568 > 4 ea - 1518 > 4 ea - 1538 > 9 ea - 1558 Whew, 1568-14 is around 631MB, 1568-15 is 676MB. 1518-14 is 993MB and -15 is around 1.34GB. 1538-15 is 910MB 1558-14 is 315MB, -15 is 338MB (which are proper replacements for PDP's and RT's and most classics.) Marvin, I would like one 1518-14 or -15 and one 1538-15. If your friend is accurate accounts of them seemingly brand new they're should still within padded boxes. Have your friend research more models if able to for our list's benfit. Thanks! One thing, aren't they newer design of black HDA packs not plain clear-coated aluminum like the 1325? Wizard > > He indicated there may be more, but had no idea what the model numbers > might be. > From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Mon Feb 22 21:23:59 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8011AB1AF@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > This made me think of something. How many AMOS (Alpha Micro OS) users are > there in the audience? The Salvation Army for years used 68K AMOS-based > servers for local corps networks (with dummy terminals in the offices). > AMOS > BASIC, yech! > I've rescued an Alpha Micro 1042E. It's S-100, 68K, multiuser, running AMOS. I don't have any docs and the only software is what's already installed on its hard drive. In fact, I don't see any obvious way to get software into or out of it: there's no floppy drive. But there is a board to backup files to a vcr (yup, a video cassette recorder). Interesting. -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Mon Feb 22 21:24:01 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: here's the list . . . Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8011AB1B0@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Processor Technology "CUTS" cassette interface? board > > BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > 2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. > I have an _unassembled_ kit for the BIOTECH card, but I'd love to get a copy of the documents, which I lack, and any software that accompanied it. I DO have documents for the Processor Tech CUTS board, if that's needed. > Morrow Thinker Toys "Switchboard" Serial/Parallel I/O board - with doc's > I could use this to keep my much-appreciated Morrow Keyed-Up 8080 Cpu Card company. > in addition to the S-100 stuff, there are numerous 4-and 9-slot Multibus I > cardcages and several memory boards, floppy and hard disk interface cards, > and a few iSBC's I don't intend to keep. > I've also got some Multibus stuff. Is anyone into this? -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Feb 22 21:45:28 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: here's the list . . . In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8011AB1B0@zwdld001.ca.norte l.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990222224528.009907d0@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Arlen Michaels had spoken clearly: > On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 >> 2114's to produce 256x192 graphics and text. >> >I have an _unassembled_ kit for the BIOTECH card, but I'd love to get a >copy of the documents, which I lack, and any software that accompanied it. Erm, sounds like that AMI chip is a clone of Motorola's 6847 VDG, which was used in Tandy's CoCo 1 & 2, and the MC-10. I wonder: 1) if they're pin compatible, 2) if they've got added functionality -- might be fun to play with in one of my CoCo's if there is! See ya, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From doug at blinkenlights.com Mon Feb 22 21:37:23 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > I believe the Otrona Attache was made from an Altair chassis. I think you mean the iCOM Attache, which has absolutely no relation to the Otrona portable. AFAIK, the only relation between iCOM and MITS was due to the Pertec acquisition of both companies. -- Doug From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 22 23:52:22 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > I believe the Otrona Attache was made from an Altair chassis. If you ever took more than a cursory look at one you would certainly NOT believe that! - don > On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > > > There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you > > altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a > > portable altair 8800. > > > > Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) > > > > Here is the address for those interested.. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=69787811 > > > > Noel > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > 215 Shady Lea Road, > North Kingstown, RI 02852 > > "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Feb 22 22:47:27 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Data Products Portacom model PC 8110 Message-ID: <199902230447.WAA02596@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Does anyone have any information about a Data Products Portacom terminal? This is a very old printing terminal (i think it was purchased in 1973) that weights over 30 pounds and is built into a black carrying case (sort of like an attache case, er, make that more like a American Tourister...) It has a teletype like ribbon, and it prints in a strange manner. the printhead is behind the page of paper, with 8 rows of 8 characters on a hexagonal horizontal rod. Its very hard to describe, since the entire device is full of somewhat bizarre mechanical parts. I really wish I had a expensive camera that could take closeup shots of stuff like this. -Lawrence LeMay From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Feb 22 22:54:07 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: International Data Sciences, model 1310 modem test set Message-ID: <199902230454.WAA02602@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Does anyone have any information about the modem test set listed in the subject line? This unit is dated from 1980, and uses 3 Nixie tubes for displaying an error count, or blocks analyzed. It can go as high as 9600 baud, or as low as 75 baud, including popular rates such as 134.5 and 150... -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Mon Feb 22 21:23:23 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) Message-ID: <19990223041114907.AAA137@fuj03> Well . . . it's not MY kid that moving in, but the dog is glad . . . you can count on that! Dick ---------- > From: Joe > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Big Board cpm system board (fwd) > Date: Monday, February 22, 1999 1:11 PM > > At 08:47 AM 2/22/99 -0700, Dick said: > > > >Now that my kids are gone I've got to nag at someone. > > > Gee, I'll bet you're glad one of them is moving back in! > > Joe From mbg at world.std.com Mon Feb 22 22:04:41 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. Message-ID: <199902230404.AA18670@world.std.com> >I have the clasic... > > _introduction to programming_ 1972 I have several copies of that one, along with several copies of the second classic book (the yellow-covered one, I forget the title right now). I also have the thin Focal programming book. Most are not out of boxes right now, but I have a few within reach. _pdp11 handbook_ This isn't the oldest one, since it mentions both the 11/20 and the 11/10, but it is old - 1970. _processor handbook_ (pdp11/20,15,r20) 1972 _processor handbook_ (pdp11/45, 1973 signed by Gordon Bell _peripherals handbook_ 1973-74 _pdp11/60 processor handbook_ 1977-78 EB-06498-76 _pdp11 processor handbook_ (pdp11/04/24/34a/44/7-0) 1981 EB-19402-20/81 (copyright 1981) EB-19402-20/85 (copyright 1985) (slightly thinner book) _peripherals handbook_ 1981-82 EB-20443-20 _pdp-11 Architecture Handbook_ 1983-84 EB-23657-18 _pdp-11 MICRO/PDP-11 Handbook_ 1983-84 EB-24944-18 >Actually I have a good selection of the late 70s throuth the 80s PDP-11 >hardware books. At one point, I got myself on an automatic distribution list for any new handbooks... it was great. >One set I have it the two volume white books: > > LSI-11 Systems Service Manual (for field sevice) Yep, I have that also... Plus, the three binder set: LSI-11 Systems Service Manual Volume I - Systems Options Volume II - Module Options A-K Volume III - Module Options L-Z EK-LSIFS-SV And the seven volume set (currently in my office) on communications devices... I have an old DOS/Batch manual (the 8.5" by 11" by 2.5" thick manual and some old pdp-10 manuals as well (from 1970). I'm going to have to catalog them... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From nfields at ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 23 01:04:11 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! References: Message-ID: <36D252EB.435B4637@ix.netcom.com> Well I figured, if any people could fill me in, this was the group and I was right :) Thanks for all the answers! Noel "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > I believe the Otrona Attache was made from an Altair chassis. > > On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > > > There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you > > altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a > > portable altair 8800. > > > > Is that what it is? Or is this just a part of an altair (I'm curious now!) > > > > Here is the address for those interested.. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=69787811 > > > > Noel > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > 215 Shady Lea Road, > North Kingstown, RI 02852 > > "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990222/ac1285f6/attachment.html From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Feb 23 01:43:00 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) Message-ID: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 it came with, and after hooking it up to my apple2GS with spectrum (also a classic computer :) I got the thing to boot up into VMS. VERY cool. :) Wishing it had TCP-IP, but heck, if it had *everything* I want on it, where would the challenge be? :) By the by, after attempting to negotiate with Sydex about a single user license for Teledisk pro (the 150 dollar license they sell is a 25 user site license) and failing, I've resolved not to do business with them again and have removed Teledisk 2.16 (which turned out to be a hacked version) from my system as well as 22disk, which is their utility for copying to and from CPM disks. Good software, but not worth what they want for it. It's DOS mode software for pete's sake. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Tue Feb 23 01:54:35 1999 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Fw: Anyone interested in tons of various PDP-11/780 and 785 boards Message-ID: <01be5f01$c1560a40$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> following posted in alt.folklore.computers. I'm sure some of the list members will be interested..... It's times like this I almost wish I lived in America..... -----Original Message----- From: Kent Rankin Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers Date: Monday, 22 February 1999 17:49 Subject: Anyone interested in tons of various PDP-11/780 and 785 boards > I know of a metal scrapper in VA that has tons of PDP(/VAX)-11/780 >and 11/785 in his yard. With them are lots of other boxes(CDC, IBM, >Intergraph, etc.). > > The PDP-11/78x's are packed with boards, all the way across. A >fellow that was with me, when I checked them out, used to work for >Intergraph(when they used PDP-11 and VAX) said that they all had 32MB of >RAM. > > My question here lies with the acquisition of them. Would anyone be >willing to pay some cash for them? The fellow is having a hard >year(making much less than normal), and could use some help. The way I >figure it, someone might need some of the boards. Just a shot in the >dark, really. > > There are also some "floating point accelerators". They are made by >Floating Point Systems. > > Tons of Power Supplies for the PDP's(H7-somethingorothers). Loads >of hard drives and stuff. > > Anyhow, if anyone can help on this one, do tell me. > > > >Thanks in advance, > >Kent Rankin Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 23 01:56:58 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Textfiles.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > Slashdot today reported on an apparently new site, www.textfiles.com. It > is a huge archive of various plain-text files, some classic-computer > related, and certainly PC Clone related. I've had that site listed in the Computer History Resources section of the VCF links page for a couple months now. Pretty entertaining. http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vcflinks.htm Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 23 02:32:41 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Jim Strickland wrote: > By the by, after attempting to negotiate with Sydex about a single user > license for Teledisk pro (the 150 dollar license they sell is a 25 user > site license) and failing, I've resolved not to do business with them again > and have removed Teledisk 2.16 (which turned out to be a hacked version) > from my system as well as 22disk, which is their utility for copying to and > from CPM disks. Good software, but not worth what they want for it. It's > DOS mode software for pete's sake. Being that Teledisk is an important piece of software for us vintage computer enthusiasts, it might be worth our while to petition Sydex to create a low-cost hobbyist license to make it affordable. Or we could all pitch in for a 25-user "site" license and just claim our office is "distributed". Or, a certain author of XenoCopy who is subscribed to this list could take this as a great opportunity to start actively marketing his program again (which IMO is better than Teledisk). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Feb 23 06:34:12 1999 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Feb 23, 1999 0:43: 0 am" Message-ID: <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> > Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! > It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. > > It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 it came with, and > after hooking it up to my apple2GS with spectrum (also a classic computer :) > I got the thing to boot up into VMS. VERY cool. :) > > Wishing it had TCP-IP, but heck, if it had *everything* I want on it, > where would the challenge be? :) > > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim and any other Vax folk out here -- it can have TCP/IP. The CMU IP stack is available free with the DECUS hobbiest rom. http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html Bill (who still hasn't had time to bring up my own Vaxstation 3100 yet) --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 23 09:35:09 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Teledisk was Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990223093509.304745da@intellistar.net> Jim, I wonder if Sydex would consider some of the people on this list as a "site"? Some of us could chip in and get the site license and get a registered copy of the Teledisk. Joe At 12:43 AM 2/23/99 -0700, Jim wrote: > >By the by, after attempting to negotiate with Sydex about a single user >license for Teledisk pro (the 150 dollar license they sell is a 25 user >site license) and failing, I've resolved not to do business with them again >and have removed Teledisk 2.16 (which turned out to be a hacked version) >from my system as well as 22disk, which is their utility for copying to and >from CPM disks. Good software, but not worth what they want for it. It's >DOS mode software for pete's sake. > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Tue Feb 23 07:40:40 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Here's an odd item to look at! Message-ID: >There is an interesting item up for sale on e-bay right now, for all you >altair collectors. For the life of me, it looks like someone made a >portable altair 8800. Just have to comment that: The keyboard looks exactly like one Shadio Rack sold as a kit (&these fingers did a *lot* of typing on ) - they must have been readily available to be used in the TVT also. That was the parallel kbrd I'd like to find a replacement for. Seems I recall, was is Don Lancaster had a whole 'TV Typewriter Cookbook'? FInd one of those cheap and make your own, complete with 'page 1/2' toggle switch, pushbutton scrolling, hehe. Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Tue Feb 23 08:54:27 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8011AB1AF@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> from "Arlen Michaels" at Feb 22, 99 10:23:59 pm Message-ID: <199902231454.GAA11516@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1178 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990223/2eaa1202/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 23 10:05:44 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Feb 23, 99 07:34:12 am Message-ID: <199902231605.IAA29077@shell2.aracnet.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 565 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990223/e66202e8/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 23 10:11:29 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:20 2005 Subject: Teledisk: Group copy? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990223093509.304745da@intellistar.net> References: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990223081129.0094cab0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 09:35 23-02-1999, you wrote: >Jim, > > I wonder if Sydex would consider some of the people on this list as a >"site"? Some of us could chip in and get the site license and get a >registered copy of the Teledisk. Hey.... I -like- that idea! In fact, I like it a -lot!- I could really use an updated copy, and if Sydex is selling 25-user licenses for $150, that would cover at least half the folks on the list. Heck, I'll even volunteer to coordinate the effort! Even if only five people want to do it, that's only $30 per person (which I think we could all afford). If we get 25 of us wanting to do it, that's a whopping $6 per person. OK... tell you what I can do. Would everyone who'd be interested in chipping in for a new copy of Teledisk please drop me a private E-mail? I can set up a log file (a spreadsheet, probably) with however many folks are interested. Once we get enough to justify this, I'll ask folks to send in a check. I'll then chip in my own $$ and order the thing. Once I get it, I can electronically distribute it to the contributors as a ZIPfile. If there's a user's manual associated, I'll figure a way to scan it or get it into electronic form somehow. Let's see what happens... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kbd at ndx.net Tue Feb 23 11:49:35 1999 From: kbd at ndx.net (Kirk Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. In-Reply-To: <199902230404.AA18670@world.std.com> Message-ID: <000001be5f54$e0672420$0a01a8c0@cpq> > I'm going to have to catalog them... > You go girl :-) From pechter at shell.monmouth.com Tue Feb 23 12:53:15 1999 From: pechter at shell.monmouth.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902231605.IAA29077@shell2.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Feb 23, 1999 8: 5:44 am" Message-ID: <199902231853.NAA02157@shell.monmouth.com> > > Jim and any other Vax folk out here -- it can have TCP/IP. > > The CMU IP stack is available free with the DECUS hobbiest rom. > > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html > > Unfortunalty the CD-ROM is not currently available as they've run out for > the moment. However, hopefully the next version will include stuff for > Alpha OpenVMS. Currently they're trying to get those systems added to the > hobbiest program from what I hear. Me, I'm waiting to see what the price on > the new Compaq VMSstation will be, and hoping I can afford one for home use. > > Zane I must've just got mine in time. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 23 13:05:21 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk: Group copy? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990223081129.0094cab0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > Hey.... > > I -like- that idea! In fact, I like it a -lot!- I could really use an > updated copy, and if Sydex is selling 25-user licenses for $150, that would > cover at least half the folks on the list. You should know that the commercial version of TeleDisk is a somewhat different package than the old shareware one. Since it was intended for software distribution by commercial entities, it consists of the TeleDisk program which creates the disk image and a second program called TeleGet - that was freely distributable - which will expand it and write it to disk. DTC, for one, used it. I presume that the TeleDisk program also has expand/write capabilities, but I'm not sure. Tim Shoppa??? - don > Heck, I'll even volunteer to coordinate the effort! Even if only five > people want to do it, that's only $30 per person (which I think we could > all afford). If we get 25 of us wanting to do it, that's a whopping $6 per > person. > > OK... tell you what I can do. Would everyone who'd be interested in > chipping in for a new copy of Teledisk please drop me a private E-mail? I > can set up a log file (a spreadsheet, probably) with however many folks are > interested. > > Once we get enough to justify this, I'll ask folks to send in a check. > I'll then chip in my own $$ and order the thing. Once I get it, I can > electronically distribute it to the contributors as a ZIPfile. If there's a > user's manual associated, I'll figure a way to scan it or get it into > electronic form somehow. > > Let's see what happens... > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 23 15:13:16 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990223151316.48c7ddb8@intellistar.net> Try "Exec". I don't have any details of how to use it, sorry. Let me know what you find out. Joe From hansp at digiweb.com Tue Feb 23 13:41:36 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment Message-ID: <36D30470.C5E4F6B7@digiweb.com> ACONIT recently acquired an Apple Lisa. It appears to be fully functional except that the video signnal is shited right horizontally about an inch or two. Doeas anyone know of an adjustment for this? Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 23 13:47:18 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: <36D30470.C5E4F6B7@digiweb.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Hans B Pufal wrote: > ACONIT recently acquired an Apple Lisa. It appears to be fully > functional except that the video signnal is shited right horizontally > about an inch or two. Doeas anyone know of an adjustment for this? Try the Lisa/Macintosh XL Do-it-yourself Guide: http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~woz/lisatech/ Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From rickb at pail.enginet.com Tue Feb 23 14:59:44 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990223151316.48c7ddb8@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 23, 99 03:13:16 pm Message-ID: > > Try "Exec". I don't have any details of how to use it, sorry. Let me know > what you find out. > Hmmm...this brings back some memories. From my recollection, this statement accepted a string argument. The character string supplied was coded in a special pseudo-hexadecimal: 0="0", 1="1", 2="2", 3="3", 4="4", 5="5", 6="6", 7="7" 8="8", 9="9", a=":", b=";" c="<", d="=", e=">", f="?" For example, to represent the hex sequence 6e7f391d, the string would be "6>7?391=" Each two characters represent a byte. Now, using this method, you could 'code' 6800 machine code instructions. The EXEC statement would store the bytes supplied in the string argument as a linear sequence of machine code, and cause a jump to the segment of code. I don't recall if it was JMP'd to, or JSR'd to...and don't remember any of the details of how to return from a segment of code executed with the EXEC statement. Obviously, sending random stuff to an EXEC statement could wedge the machine up. I remember that EXEC was used frequently by folks who were experts with the machine (and had magic lists of the internal runtime calls) to make game programs and stuff in machine code that would run much faster than the interpreted BASIC. It also allowed 'extensions' to BASIC that you could use to do things like PEEK and POKE, etc. There were conventions for passing variables in and out of EXEC'd code, so BASIC could be used for 'high level' functions, and the fast EXEC'd machine code could be used for time-critical or other functions that were too slow, or too tedious (IE: bit manipulation) to do in BASIC. Hope this helps. It's all from foggy memories..all the fun with 4051's that I had happened sometime around 1978...21 years ago. I'm amazed that I can remember ANY of it, given that many times I can't remember where I put my car keys :-) Rick Bensene From djenner at halcyon.com Tue Feb 23 15:20:36 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) References: <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <36D31BA4.4FE9024B@halcyon.com> I'm getting my DEC Pro 380 up to speed with POS (RSX-11M-) while I try to find usable Pro/Venix disks (my real goal) and this subject is close to what I am thinking about now. My DEC Pro has an ethernet card (DECNA) and POS has Pro/DECnet freely available. As far as I can tell, there isn't any TCP/IP software for it. (But, if someone knows of any, please let us know!). So, one way to have the Pro communicate with my network is to have another machine that talks both DECnet and TCP/IP. Apparently, there is a Linux DECnet, but Zane has been having trouble getting it to work. Another possibility is a VAXstation that talks both DECnet and TCP/IP. So, is this possible? Will the hobbyist VMS do it? Or will Ultrix do it? What is the smallest *VAX* that will do this? Note that I don't think I require any routing between the protocols. I would be happy just to be able to transfer files to/from my TCP/IP network to the *VAX* and to be able to independently transfer files to/from my Pro using DECnet. Thanks, Dave Bill Pechter wrote: > > > Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! > > It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. > > > > It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 it came with, and > > after hooking it up to my apple2GS with spectrum (also a classic computer :) > > I got the thing to boot up into VMS. VERY cool. :) > > > > Wishing it had TCP-IP, but heck, if it had *everything* I want on it, > > where would the challenge be? :) > > > > Jim Strickland > > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Jim and any other Vax folk out here -- it can have TCP/IP. > The CMU IP stack is available free with the DECUS hobbiest rom. > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html > > Bill > (who still hasn't had time to bring up my own Vaxstation 3100 yet) > --- > Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a > villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller > bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 23 15:50:11 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <36D31BA4.4FE9024B@halcyon.com> References: <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990223155011.00f98ad0@vpwisfirewall> At 01:20 PM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: > So, one way to have the Pro communicate >with my network is to have another machine that talks both DECnet and TCP/IP. >Apparently, there is a Linux DECnet, but Zane has been having trouble getting >it to work. Another possibility is a VAXstation that talks both DECnet and >TCP/IP. There are DECnets for Mac and PC, of course, although I don't know how you're going to do any actual routing as opposed to simple file parking. Once upon a time, my company even made a DECnet for the Amiga, a licensed port of the Thursby code. (I wrote the DECnet mail for the Amiga.) My DEC Pro 350 was once able to talk to my Amiga this way, but my knowledge of this has been fogged by time. - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 23 18:13:26 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: <36D30470.C5E4F6B7@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990223181326.49bf5282@intellistar.net> No but I found one with a dead power supply. Does anyone know anything about the Lisa PS? Joe At 08:41 PM 2/23/99 +0100, you wrote: >ACONIT recently acquired an Apple Lisa. It appears to be fully >functional except that the video signnal is shited right horizontally >about an inch or two. Doeas anyone know of an adjustment for this? > >Regards > >_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- >Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue > > From djenner at halcyon.com Tue Feb 23 16:30:04 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) References: <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> <3.0.5.32.19990223155011.00f98ad0@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: <36D32BEC.CB6B5013@halcyon.com> If it's DECnet for Windows 95/98/NT, I assume it costs "big money"? Probably more than scrounging up a *VAX* with freely available software? Anybody have pointers to DECnet for Windows 95/98/NT? Thanks, Dave John Foust wrote: > > At 01:20 PM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: > > So, one way to have the Pro communicate > >with my network is to have another machine that talks both DECnet and TCP/IP. > >Apparently, there is a Linux DECnet, but Zane has been having trouble getting > >it to work. Another possibility is a VAXstation that talks both DECnet and > >TCP/IP. > > There are DECnets for Mac and PC, of course, although I don't know > how you're going to do any actual routing as opposed to simple > file parking. Once upon a time, my company even made a DECnet for > the Amiga, a licensed port of the Thursby code. (I wrote the > DECnet mail for the Amiga.) My DEC Pro 350 was once able to talk > to my Amiga this way, but my knowledge of this has been fogged by time. > > - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 13:46:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Feb 22, 99 05:58:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1063 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990223/d5933902/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 15:37:46 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: International Data Sciences, model 1310 modem test set In-Reply-To: <199902230454.WAA02602@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Feb 22, 99 10:54:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990223/3f61e967/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 15:40:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 23, 99 00:32:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1250 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990223/7f765c70/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 23 18:52:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19990223151316.48c7ddb8@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990223185212.2507e626@intellistar.net> Rick, Thanks, that's a big help. I wouldn't have ever figured that out by myself. Joe At 12:59 PM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >> >> Try "Exec". I don't have any details of how to use it, sorry. Let me know >> what you find out. >> > >Hmmm...this brings back some memories. From my recollection, this >statement accepted a string argument. The character string supplied >was coded in a special pseudo-hexadecimal: > >0="0", 1="1", 2="2", 3="3", 4="4", 5="5", 6="6", 7="7" >8="8", 9="9", a=":", b=";" c="<", d="=", e=">", f="?" > >For example, to represent the hex sequence 6e7f391d, the string would be >"6>7?391=" > >Each two characters represent a byte. > >Now, using this method, you could 'code' 6800 machine code instructions. > >The EXEC statement would store the bytes supplied in the string argument >as a linear sequence of machine code, and cause a jump to the segment >of code. I don't recall if it was JMP'd to, or JSR'd to...and don't >remember any of the details of how to return from a segment of code >executed with the EXEC statement. Obviously, sending random stuff >to an EXEC statement could wedge the machine up. > >I remember that EXEC was used frequently by folks who were experts >with the machine (and had magic lists of the internal runtime >calls) to make game programs and stuff in machine code that would >run much faster than the interpreted BASIC. It also allowed >'extensions' to BASIC that you could use to do things like PEEK and POKE, >etc. There were conventions for passing variables in and out of >EXEC'd code, so BASIC could be used for 'high level' functions, and >the fast EXEC'd machine code could be used for time-critical or >other functions that were too slow, or too tedious (IE: bit manipulation) >to do in BASIC. > >Hope this helps. It's all from foggy memories..all the fun with 4051's >that I had happened sometime around 1978...21 years ago. I'm amazed >that I can remember ANY of it, given that many times I can't remember >where I put my car keys :-) > >Rick Bensene > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 23 18:24:53 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) Message-ID: <199902240024.AA13347@world.std.com> 6.1 and CMU-IP. and you have what you need. VS2000 is about the smallest vaxen made at around .5cuft. The alternate is a copy of ultrix with decnet but finding that may be harder. Routing is not an issue if they are both end nodes in the same DECNET area. Generally this is something VAXen do well. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 23 21:16:44 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk: Group copy? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990223081129.0094cab0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990223093509.304745da@intellistar.net> <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990223211644.308793b2@intellistar.net> Bruce, Count me in! How many does that make so far? Joe At 08:11 AM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >At 09:35 23-02-1999, you wrote: > >>Jim, >> >> I wonder if Sydex would consider some of the people on this list as a >>"site"? Some of us could chip in and get the site license and get a >>registered copy of the Teledisk. > > Hey.... > > I -like- that idea! In fact, I like it a -lot!- I could really use an >updated copy, and if Sydex is selling 25-user licenses for $150, that would >cover at least half the folks on the list. > > Heck, I'll even volunteer to coordinate the effort! Even if only five >people want to do it, that's only $30 per person (which I think we could >all afford). If we get 25 of us wanting to do it, that's a whopping $6 per >person. > > OK... tell you what I can do. Would everyone who'd be interested in >chipping in for a new copy of Teledisk please drop me a private E-mail? I >can set up a log file (a spreadsheet, probably) with however many folks are >interested. > > Once we get enough to justify this, I'll ask folks to send in a check. >I'll then chip in my own $$ and order the thing. Once I get it, I can >electronically distribute it to the contributors as a ZIPfile. If there's a >user's manual associated, I'll figure a way to scan it or get it into >electronic form somehow. > > Let's see what happens... > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 18:42:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990223181326.49bf5282@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 23, 99 06:13:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1420 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/a9ba02df/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 18:45:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: <36D30470.C5E4F6B7@digiweb.com> from "Hans B Pufal" at Feb 23, 99 08:41:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/46371161/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 18:51:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! In-Reply-To: from "Rick Bensene" at Feb 23, 99 12:59:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 676 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/47e25352/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Feb 23 19:31:18 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990223203118.0098ddd0@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly: >I have been half-thinking of writing my own tools to make disk images of >any disk my PC can read, write them back to disk, extract data from them, >etc. Fine idea... but you may be reinventing some wheels here, at least in the short term. I know that the CoCo2 & CoCo3 emulator has a program that can read individual files & entire CoCo disks on a Clone, and I think the Model I/III/4 emulator does too... these are freeware AFAIK. If we set up a central site where these types of freeware disk tools could be located, then as folks find other available freeware tools, we could just archive it in the same spot... I can set up a spot on my FTP server if anyone thinks this is a good idea. Just lemme know if anyone wishes me to implement this. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 23 19:38:22 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990223155011.00f98ad0@vpwisfirewall> References: <36D31BA4.4FE9024B@halcyon.com> <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >At 01:20 PM 2/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >> So, one way to have the Pro communicate >>with my network is to have another machine that talks both DECnet and TCP/IP. >>Apparently, there is a Linux DECnet, but Zane has been having trouble getting >>it to work. Another possibility is a VAXstation that talks both DECnet and >>TCP/IP. Actually where I'm having trouble with DECnet/Linux is talking to DECnet/RSX-11M, it talks fine to DECnet/VAX VMS. However, I assume these results mean that Linux can't talk to a Pro380 running POS via DECnet. >There are DECnets for Mac and PC, of course, although I don't know >how you're going to do any actual routing as opposed to simple >file parking. Once upon a time, my company even made a DECnet for >the Amiga, a licensed port of the Thursby code. (I wrote the >DECnet mail for the Amiga.) My DEC Pro 350 was once able to talk >to my Amiga this way, but my knowledge of this has been fogged by time. Sadly there is now sign of the Amiga version of DECnet anywhere, I did some serious looking for a copy almost a year ago. I don't think routing would be an issue as long as you're all in the same (oh, what do you call it "sub-net" or "region", something like that). Of course if you've more than 1024 machines, then you'd have a problem, BUT any hobbiest with that many machines running DECnet HAS a problem :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From mbg at world.std.com Tue Feb 23 20:06:49 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) References: <36D31BA4.4FE9024B@halcyon.com> <199902231234.HAA01363@shell.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <199902240206.AA01586@world.std.com> >I don't think routing would be an issue as long as you're all in the same >(oh, what do you call it "sub-net" or "region", something like that). Of >course if you've more than 1024 machines, then you'd have a problem, BUT >any hobbiest with that many machines running DECnet HAS a problem :^) They're called 'areas' in DECnet... up to 1023 nodes in each of 63 areas (10 bits for node, 6 bits for area) at least. I've forgotten if area 0 is allowed... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 23 19:55:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990223203118.0098ddd0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 23, 99 08:31:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1514 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/6da1393a/attachment.ksh From cbajpai at mediaone.net Tue Feb 23 20:16:53 1999 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990223181326.49bf5282@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000001be5f9b$beab0080$0100a8c0@chandrab.ne.mediaone.net> I understand that Lisa Power Supplies are incredibly hard to come by and when you do find them they cost as much as a old Lisa (E-bay prices of course). I'm looking to acquire a Lisa at a reasonable price... -Chandra > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 1:13 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Lisa screen adjustment > > > No but I found one with a dead power supply. Does anyone know anything > about the Lisa PS? > > Joe > > At 08:41 PM 2/23/99 +0100, you wrote: > >ACONIT recently acquired an Apple Lisa. It appears to be fully > >functional except that the video signnal is shited right horizontally > >about an inch or two. Doeas anyone know of an adjustment for this? > > > >Regards > > > >_---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- > >Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue > > > > > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 23 20:53:40 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk: Group copy? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990223081129.0094cab0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990223185340.00942dd0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 11:05 23-02-1999 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > >> Hey.... >> >> I -like- that idea! In fact, I like it a -lot!- I could really use an >> updated copy, and if Sydex is selling 25-user licenses for $150, that would >> cover at least half the folks on the list. > >You should know that the commercial version of TeleDisk is a somewhat >different package than the old shareware one. Since it was intended for >software distribution by commercial entities, it consists of the TeleDisk >program which creates the disk image and a second program called TeleGet Thanks. So noted. So far, I've gotten a lot of interest. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Feb 23 21:11:14 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk was Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990223093509.304745da@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 23, 1999 09:35:09 AM Message-ID: <199902240311.UAA08577@calico.litterbox.com> > > Jim, > > I wonder if Sydex would consider some of the people on this list as a > "site"? Some of us could chip in and get the site license and get a > registered copy of the Teledisk. > > Joe > actually I asked if it would be legitimate to distribute copies to 24 of my hobbiest friends and they said no. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Feb 23 21:20:55 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Feb 23, 99 00:43:00 am Message-ID: <199902240320.TAA15637@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi: If you need TCP/IP, get the CMUIP package from Carnegie Mellon. It works quite well under VMS. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 23 21:26:01 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk was Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902240311.UAA08577@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990223093509.304745da@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990223192601.00950440@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 20:11 23-02-1999 -0700, you wrote: >actually I asked if it would be legitimate to distribute copies to 24 of my >hobbiest friends and they said no. That's silly! If someone buys a 25 user license, no matter how, they should be able to distribute 25 copies. I'm going to E-mail Sydex and find out what the deal is. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From msg at computerpro.com Tue Feb 23 21:40:37 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Data Products Portacom model PC 8110 References: <199902230447.WAA02596@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <36D374B5.48A4D06@computerpro.com> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Does anyone have any information about a Data Products Portacom terminal? Yeah, these were sold and maintained by Teleterminals (now Ameritech) for many years (previously on Zane Ave. No.). Sure wish we had one... Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From dastar at ncal.verio.com Tue Feb 23 21:45:37 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk was Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990223192601.00950440@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 20:11 23-02-1999 -0700, you wrote: > > >actually I asked if it would be legitimate to distribute copies to 24 of my > >hobbiest friends and they said no. > > That's silly! If someone buys a 25 user license, no matter how, they > should be able to distribute 25 copies. Its a "site" license as opposed to a user license. As long as there is no restriction on a "site" being spread across the world then there shouldn't be a problem. Of course, don't offer too much information to them. Then again, there's XenoCopy... Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From msg at computerpro.com Tue Feb 23 21:42:58 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) References: <199902230743.AAA04702@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <36D37542.1A1615F3@computerpro.com> Jim Strickland wrote: > > Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! > It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. > > It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 ... We've had to keep our clock set back to preserve our VMS and TCP/IP and NFS and numerous other packages... Anyone have a clue as to how we can preserve the software without moving to some 'hobby' license of a newer VMS? Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Feb 23 21:51:39 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: teledisk (forward of their e-mail to me) Message-ID: <199902240351.UAA08885@calico.litterbox.com> Sorry for the long, yucky forward, but I thought I'd save folks time negotiating with these people. I basically feel they're being petulant about how nobody registered teledisk (which I understand, I guess, but can't understand why they won't *sell* me a single user copy). Note that this is in reverse chronological order, with the most recent note first. My reply to this was "thank you for your time, I will be deleting teledisk from my system." I can't fault Ms St. Clair for being unfriendly or unhelpful, just her company for being stupid. And I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $150 dollars for a 25 user site license of software that has to run in a DOS window. -Jim > From miriam@sydex.com Mon Feb 22 11:45:01 1999 > Message-ID: <199902221038530000.00B8538A@10.0.0.254> > X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.40 > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:38:53 -0800 > From: "Miriam W. St. Clair" > To: jim@calico.litterbox.com > Subject: Re: Information Request: general > > 22 February 1999 > > Dear Mr. Strickland, > > TeleDisk was removed from shareware precisely because fewer than 1% of > its (often hobbyist) users were willing to purchase a registered > copy--but all of them were quite willing to call for support. Version > 2.12 was the last available shareware release, and it will not run > properly in an MS-DOS session under Windows 95/98 nor on most Pentium > systems. Sydex discontinued the distribution of Version 2.12 in early > 1991 when TeleDisk was dropped from our shareware product line. We do > not offer any kind of support for this release. Quite frankly, we're > surprised at the number of people who expect a 1990 hardware-sensitive > DOS product to run under Windows 95 on Pentium systems. > > The 25-user license for TeleDisk Pro is a site license, and it may be > used only at one specified location. > > As I mentioned earlier, CopyQM will handle a number of unusual formats. > You need to work in MS-DOS command-prompt mode, with DIRECT hardware > access, and in BLIND mode. We've made numerous copies of various CP/M > diskettes here using CopyQM in the manner described, so please give it > a try. > > That's the best we can do this time. Again, we regret the > circumstances that make it impossible for us to offer TeleDisk Pro for > shareware registration fees. > > Regards, > > Miriam W. St.Clair > for Sydex, Inc. > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 2/22/99, at 11:07 AM, Jim Strickland wrote: > > >> 22 February 1999 > >> > >> Dear Mr. Strickland, > >> > >> What you found is definitely hacked, so all bets are off. 22DISK > has > >> the less expensive price since it's still a shareware product, and > >> since its users have pretty much supported it by registering > (although > >> we've seen big negative changes in this practice over the last > couple > >> of years). TeleDisk was removed from shareware distribution in > 1991, > >> and we've sold it ever since as a commercial product. I'm very > sorry > >> that we cannot offer a single-user price now. > > > >How unfortunate. Considering the general standardization of disk > formats in > >the last couple years - ie macs read PC disks, pcs read mac disks and > not much > >else is out there - I would have thought the hobbiest market was one > you would > >pursue with this product. A question. If I went ahead and bought the > 25 user > >license, would it then be legitimate to share it with 24 of my > hobbiest friends > >? > > > > > > > >> You might try one more thing before you give up the hobby entirely. > >> Pick up the evaluation copy of CopyQM from our Web site. Use it > under > >> straight MS-DOS (no Windows, please for this particular use), and > see > >> if it will make copies of your Kaypro diskettes in BLIND mode. This > >> might work, and CopyQM can still be purchased for a shareware > >> registration fee. > > > >Thanks for this information. I'll give it a try. Unfortunately the > de-facto > >standard for this kind of thing seems to be teledisk 2.12, which won't > run > >properly on my windows machine. > > > > > ================== > Miriam W. St. Clair > Sydex, Inc. > P.O. Box 5700 > Eugene, OR 97405 > USA > Voice: 1 541 683 6033 > FAX: 1 541 683 1622 > Email: miriam@sydex.com > WWW: http:/www.sydex.com > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Feb 23 21:57:49 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <36D37542.1A1615F3@computerpro.com> from "Michael Grigoni" at Feb 23, 1999 09:42:58 PM Message-ID: <199902240357.UAA08974@calico.litterbox.com> > > Jim Strickland wrote: > > > > Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! > > It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. > > > > It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 ... > > We've had to keep our clock set back to preserve our VMS and TCP/IP > and NFS and numerous other packages... > > Anyone have a clue as to how we can preserve the software without > moving to some 'hobby' license of a newer VMS? > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum What version are you running? The licence generator at www.montagar.com/hobbyist doesn't even ask what version of VMS you're running, and my impression is it licenses everything up to 1 rev below the current version. As far as TCP or other layered products, I think you're out of luck, but as many people have pointed out, CMU/TCP is a viable option there, and I can't imagine it could be any LESS stable than early versions of UCX. Note that they list their European licensing counterparts on this site too. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 23 22:59:30 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Teledisk was Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990223192601.00950440@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 20:11 23-02-1999 -0700, you wrote: > > >actually I asked if it would be legitimate to distribute copies to 24 of my > >hobbiest friends and they said no. > > That's silly! If someone buys a 25 user license, no matter how, they > should be able to distribute 25 copies. No, unless that person is totally uninterested, the limit is 24. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Feb 23 23:00:35 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: xenodisk? Message-ID: <199902240500.WAA09190@calico.litterbox.com> I've heard Xenodisk bandied about a lot. Would someone tell me what it is? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 23 23:23:17 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <36D37542.1A1615F3@computerpro.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Michael Grigoni wrote: > We've had to keep our clock set back to preserve our VMS and TCP/IP > and NFS and numerous other packages... > > Anyone have a clue as to how we can preserve the software without > moving to some 'hobby' license of a newer VMS? You seem to have already figured out the easiest way. Advice: avoid enabling NTP. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Feb 23 23:21:28 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Whats a uVax II worth these days? Message-ID: <4.1.19990223212015.00961a00@mcmanis.com> Anybody want to trade a MicroVax II in the original "wide body" side car (on wheels no less) for a PDP-8 (any model) ? --Chuck From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 23 23:24:49 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Rick Bensene wrote: > > > > Try "Exec". I don't have any details of how to use it, sorry. Let me know > > what you find out. > > > > Hmmm...this brings back some memories. From my recollection, this > statement accepted a string argument. The character string supplied > was coded in a special pseudo-hexadecimal: > > 0="0", 1="1", 2="2", 3="3", 4="4", 5="5", 6="6", 7="7" > 8="8", 9="9", a=":", b=";" c="<", d="=", e=">", f="?" > > For example, to represent the hex sequence 6e7f391d, the string would be > "6>7?391=" > > Each two characters represent a byte. > > Now, using this method, you could 'code' 6800 machine code instructions. > > The EXEC statement would store the bytes supplied in the string argument > as a linear sequence of machine code, and cause a jump to the segment > of code. I don't recall if it was JMP'd to, or JSR'd to...and don't > remember any of the details of how to return from a segment of code > executed with the EXEC statement. Obviously, sending random stuff > to an EXEC statement could wedge the machine up. > > I remember that EXEC was used frequently by folks who were experts > with the machine (and had magic lists of the internal runtime > calls) to make game programs and stuff in machine code that would > run much faster than the interpreted BASIC. It also allowed > 'extensions' to BASIC that you could use to do things like PEEK and POKE, > etc. There were conventions for passing variables in and out of > EXEC'd code, so BASIC could be used for 'high level' functions, and > the fast EXEC'd machine code could be used for time-critical or > other functions that were too slow, or too tedious (IE: bit manipulation) > to do in BASIC. > > Hope this helps. It's all from foggy memories..all the fun with 4051's > that I had happened sometime around 1978...21 years ago. I'm amazed > that I can remember ANY of it, given that many times I can't remember > where I put my car keys :-) > > Rick Bensene > Boy! That is tickling some long asleep cells in my memory bank! One immediate question, though, is whether it was "Exec" nnnnnnnn or Call "Exec" nnnnnnnn? - don From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 23 23:58:16 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902240357.UAA08974@calico.litterbox.com> References: <36D37542.1A1615F3@computerpro.com> from "Michael Grigoni" at Feb 23, 1999 09:42:58 PM Message-ID: >What version are you running? The licence generator at >www.montagar.com/hobbyist >doesn't even ask what version of VMS you're running, and my impression is it >licenses everything up to 1 rev below the current version. As far as TCP >or other layered products, I think you're out of luck, but as many people have >pointed out, CMU/TCP is a viable option there, and I can't imagine it could be >any LESS stable than early versions of UCX. Note that they list their >European >licensing counterparts on this site too. CMUIP doesn't have working NFS, and it's been my experience that the FTP included with it is less than stellar. Although I believe that there are free FTP replacements available for it. As I mentioned in a earlier post today, the word is that they're getting ready to add some stuff to the hobbiest program, including possibly support for some Alpha systems. I saw a post on USENET afterwards to the effect of check http://www.montagar.com at the beginning of next month. I didn't recognize the poster, however, he had a Compaq e-mail address. Of course at this moment this is nothing but a rumor, but there have been rumblings about this for a couple of months now. Personally I'd like to see OpenVMS (VAX/Alpha), NAS-150, Motif, and the languages at a minimum made available for hobbiests. Let's face it, they need as many people as possible running the stuff. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 23 23:55:07 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990223203118.0098ddd0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly: > > >I have been half-thinking of writing my own tools to make disk images of > >any disk my PC can read, write them back to disk, extract data from them, > >etc. > > Fine idea... but you may be reinventing some wheels here, at least in the > short term. > > I know that the CoCo2 & CoCo3 emulator has a program that can read > individual files & entire CoCo disks on a Clone, and I think the Model > I/III/4 emulator does too... these are freeware AFAIK. I have a 'freestanding' little 16+kb program called COLORC that was apparently written in early 1988 that will read/write Coco disks. Had it for years. Be glad to donate it. - don > If we set up a central site where these types of freeware disk tools could > be located, then as folks find other available freeware tools, we could > just archive it in the same spot... I can set up a spot on my FTP server if > anyone thinks this is a good idea. > > Just lemme know if anyone wishes me to implement this. > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Tue Feb 23 23:56:35 1999 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) Message-ID: <01be5fba$6f9bf480$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: Michael Grigoni To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, 24 February 1999 15:18 Subject: Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) >Jim Strickland wrote: >> >> Whee! it's finally here! I got my vaxstation 3100 from Tim in the mail today! >> It's a Vaxstation 3100 model 42 a-bd with a mighty 8 megs of ram. >> >> It works, too! Tim thoughtfully loaded VMS 6.01 on the rz23 ... > >We've had to keep our clock set back to preserve our VMS and TCP/IP >and NFS and numerous other packages... > >Anyone have a clue as to how we can preserve the software without >moving to some 'hobby' license of a newer VMS? They have expiring licenses then? I must have got lucky, all my VMS boxen have everlasting ones. The only expiring license I ever saw on any of my systems was one for RDB (I think). Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Wed Feb 24 00:45:33 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete In-Reply-To: <199902240500.WAA09190@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Through a series of misadventures over the years I've ended up with a couple of Xerox 820 machines. One is an 820-2 and the other a straight 820. I've got both the original dual floppy bay and the 8 inch floppy/HD combo. Today I ran across a 5.25 inch subassembly but have no 5.25 inch software. Two questions: Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? Was there ever a 5.25 inch floppy/ hard drive combo offered? Cheers, George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed Feb 24 00:29:47 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990223203118.0098ddd0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 23, 99 08:31:18 pm Message-ID: >> >> Once upon a midnight dreary, Tony Duell had spoken clearly: >> >> >I have been half-thinking of writing my own tools to make disk images of >> >any disk my PC can read, write them back to disk, extract data from them, >> >etc. >> >> Fine idea... but you may be reinventing some wheels here, at least in the >> short term. The various emulation pages should be checked, since first order of business with most emulators is to define a disc image file format and make some tools for reading discs and extracting images. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 24 01:32:39 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: Whats a uVax II worth these days? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990223212015.00961a00@mcmanis.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:21:28 -0800) References: <4.1.19990223212015.00961a00@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <19990224073239.32470.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck writes: > Anybody want to trade a MicroVax II in the original "wide body" side car > (on wheels no less) for a PDP-8 (any model) ? Sure, I've got an extra MicroVAX II in the BA123. As long as the PDP-8 isn't a DECmate II or DECmate III, you've got a deal. Eric From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Tue Feb 23 20:58:17 1999 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:21 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: References: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 22, 99 07:01:20 pm Message-ID: <199902240755.CAA07876@smtp.interlog.com> On 23 Feb 99 at 0:46, Tony Duell wrote: SNIP > TVs can be dangerous - more dangerous than monitors, actually. But the major > hazard is not the CRT, and it's not the EHT. It's the mains, and supplies > produced from it. > > A TV set can have most of the electronics directly connected to the mains > using what's called a 'transformerless PSU'. The only external connection > is the aerial, and that's easy to capacitively isolate. The chassis of a > TV might be connected to one side of the mains (which could be the live > side) or it might be at half mains voltage. Either way, it's an easy way > to get killed. > > A monitor almost always (there is one common exception [1]) has an isolated > PSU. The chassis is at earth potential. There is still mains on the > primary side of the PSU, but that's all. You can work on the rest of the > monitor if you take care and not get killed. But make sure you know what > you are doing before starting out. Read the service manual, ask here, > read the manual again. > I have worked on various appliances ,electrical devices and/or wiring most of my life, close to 50 years, and I have been "bitten" on occasion. Of course, except for stoves and dryers, the voltage here is 110 v. I can understand the respect given to 220v.(3wire) and have never worked on anything at that voltage without shutting down the circuit. I have also been very cautious about working on anything in damp conditions like in a washroom or wet basement. I realise that it is the total amperage that kills when you become ground. Most household circuits here are 15-20 amps. Having been "bitten" to no ill effects other than by my reaction to the shock, what are the parameters which would kill you on these circuits. e.g. rubber soled shoes vs leather, etc. > Of course if you are working on a live chassis unit, or on the primary > side of a PSU, then you should use an isolating transformer. And if > you're working on anything that might be dangerous, don't work alone. > Have somebody with you who knows how to turn off the power if anything > goes wrong. However, in my experience, it's not a good idea to have a > parent or a girl/boyfriend in the same room. They tend to cut the power > if anything at all unusual happens, which gets very annoying fast. > I used isolating transformers in electronics lab (more than 15 years ago) and had them explained at that time. I've forgotten their functioning. IIRC they are an ordinary transformer, altered to provide "isolation" from ground (via your body). I have several large transformers. How difficult would it be to build one from these. > [1] The live chassis monitor is the US (110V) version of the original > TRS-80 model 1 monitor. It's a converted live-chassis RCA portable TV, > and it has an opto-isolator on the video input. Most of the internal > circuitry is directly connected to the power line. This is one monitor to > treat with great respect. > > The UK (240V) version is a lot nicer. It uses the same TV chassis, but it > includes a double-wound isolating transformer to step the 240V down to > 110V. And thus the circuitry is isolated from the power line by that > transformer. There is no opto-isolator. > > > -tony > ciao larry lwalker@interlog.com From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Wed Feb 24 02:32:28 1999 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) Message-ID: <01be5fd0$3663d0a0$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, 24 February 1999 17:23 Subject: Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) >CMUIP doesn't have working NFS, No it doesn't, technically, I believe there are unofficial patches that partially fix it, though I'm not sure how well. >and it's been my experience that the FTP included with it is less than stellar. Last version is somewhat better, however the Madgoat FTP offering is infinitely superior. (And still freeware) >Personally I'd like to see OpenVMS (VAX/Alpha), NAS-150, Motif, and the >languages at a minimum made available for hobbiests. Let's face it, they >need as many people as possible running the stuff. Seconded. Lack of (amongst other things) a C compiler (Gcc is not fabulous under VMS imho) is a major headache, and the Decpaq pricing structure is not likely to encourage private ownership. Access to UCX for hobbyist users would also be a good thing, but I think the Motif problem is not going to be that easy, as it involves crosslicensing from elsewhere, which means it would cost Decpaq money to give away hobbyist licenses. That this would undoubtably be a PR victory for them may not be sufficient incentive. That's my understanding of the situation anyway. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Feb 24 03:12:59 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Whats a uVax II worth these days? In-Reply-To: <19990224073239.32470.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.1.19990223212015.00961a00@mcmanis.com> <4.1.19990223212015.00961a00@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990224010958.00b65a40@mcmanis.com> Eric, I misspoke, I would be willing to _give to_ someone a uVax II in exchange for them _giving me_ an OMNIBUS based '8. [with at least 4K of core memory! :-)] Hmmm, --Chuck At 07:32 AM 2/24/99 +0000, Eric wrote: >Chuck writes: >> Anybody want to trade a MicroVax II in the original "wide body" side car >> (on wheels no less) for a PDP-8 (any model) ? > >Sure, I've got an extra MicroVAX II in the BA123. As long as the PDP-8 >isn't a DECmate II or DECmate III, you've got a deal. > >Eric From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Feb 24 04:07:02 1999 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Commodore and the Hyperion Message-ID: Hi people! Somebody brought my web page to the attention of ex-Commodore engineer George Robbins (as seen in the "Deathbed Vigil" video ;) ), and he had something interesting to say about the Hyperion: GR> Commodore actually bought rights to the Hyperion design and there were GR> a couple floating around West Chester. The design served as the basis GR> for the first 8088 based PC-clones that Commodore manufactured, though GR> they ended up in normal desktop cases. The next generation was based GR> much more directly on the IBM PC's (probably for 100% compatibility) GR> then we started making our own customer chips/asic to get the cost down GR> before switching to industry standard "chipsets" for 286-486 designs. GR> In the end it was cheaper to just buy and resell clones from HK. GR> GR> On of my tasks at Commodore before the Amiga stuff took over was to GR> make a comparison of the Hyperion design and our current PC design to GR> "prove" that we weren't using any of the Hyperion proprietary design GR> features and there was no reason we should continue paying them GR> royalties on every PC we sold. 8-) As for the Commodore Hyperion in Jim Brain's Canonical List of Commodore Computer Equipment, Mr. Robbins was only able to say that maybe Commodore Canada sold Hyperions with the Commodore label as part of the deal. He has no direct knowledge of Commodore selling Hyperions in the form that Dynalogic made them. Does anyone on this list have a Commodore-branded Hyperion? -- Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ds_spenc/ From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 05:21:05 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Hans Franke? Message-ID: Did Hans Franke die or something? I haven't heard even a peep from that loquacious Bavarian in a while. Maybe John Zabolitzky has heard from him in the past few weeks? Christian, do you have his telephone number by any chance? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From kevan at heydon.org Wed Feb 24 06:00:10 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: <000001be5f9b$beab0080$0100a8c0@chandrab.ne.mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I understand that Lisa Power Supplies are incredibly hard to come by and > when you do find them they cost as much as a old Lisa (E-bay prices of > course). I'm looking to acquire a Lisa at a reasonable price... > -Chandra Tell me about it. I have been looking for a replacement unit or the schematics for my Lisa 2 PSU (part number 699-0190) for a long time now. There is a schematic for a Lisa PSU available on the Net, but I believe this may be for a Lisa 1 as it varies significantly from the components I have inside my unit. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Feb 24 06:32:04 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Hans Franke? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701be5ff1$aef4fa00$10f438cb@a.davie> Hans is alive an' kickin' The rumours of his death are greatly exaggerated, so to speak. My last communication from him was only yesterday. A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? ? > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 10:21 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Hans Franke? > > > > Did Hans Franke die or something? I haven't heard even a peep from that > loquacious Bavarian in a while. > > Maybe John Zabolitzky has heard from him in the past few weeks? > > Christian, do you have his telephone number by any chance? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 24 09:30:17 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Teledisk was Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902240311.UAA08577@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19990223093509.304745da@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990224093017.2f677f9e@intellistar.net> At 08:11 PM 2/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >> Jim, >> >> I wonder if Sydex would consider some of the people on this list as a >> "site"? Some of us could chip in and get the site license and get a >> registered copy of the Teledisk. >> >> Joe >> > >actually I asked if it would be legitimate to distribute copies to 24 of my >hobbiest friends and they said no. > >-- >Jim Strickland Screw 'em! Do it anyway! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 24 09:38:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete In-Reply-To: References: <199902240500.WAA09190@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990224093812.2507b5a4@intellistar.net> At 10:45 PM 2/23/99 -0800, George wrote: >Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? > Will the CPM for the 803 or one of the other models work on the 820? Does anyone know what the capability is between the various Televiedo models? Joe From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 24 08:20:42 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. Message-ID: <199902241420.AA20531@world.std.com> Hi -- I just sent you my latest list. While compiling it, I noticed that it appears as though some books were published by various groups. Like the IBG (Installed base group), LDP (Laboratory data products group), the Logic Products Group, and educational services -- to name a few. I may have to go back through my collection so far and see if I can determine this information for each of the books... Megan From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 24 08:25:50 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. Message-ID: <199902241425.AA16921@world.std.com> Whoops... sorry about that... it was meant to go to someone from the list, not the list itself... Megan From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 24 08:30:57 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: DEC handbooks Message-ID: <199902241430.AA12498@world.std.com> However, that faux-pax (sp?) leads me into letting people know that I have been working on compiling a list of all the DEC handbooks (pdp-8, pdp-11, vaxen, whatever) that I have, along with as much information about each that I can glean... If you check my home_systems page, there will be a link off of it to the list... So far, the earliest handbook I've found in my collection is a 1967 small computer handbook. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 24 09:06:39 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Hans Franke? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990224090555.009ef970@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 03:21 AM 2/24/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail said something like: > >Did Hans Franke die or something? I haven't heard even a peep from that >loquacious Bavarian in a while. Yeah, it has been a bit quiet around here :) I wonder if he's away from home on business. He works for Siemens Business Services (www.sbs.de) in Munich and I think I recall that he manages software development projects. SBS is a rather large systems integrator, consultant and outsourcing provider, so he could be anywhere on a job. Christine works there too in the Human Resources dept. > >Maybe John Zabolitzky has heard from him in the past few weeks? > >Christian, do you have his telephone number by any chance? No, I haven't yet got his number although Beverly and I plan to _someday_ get back over there (depending on my job schedule whenever I find a new job) and should get it anyway. I find there are seven phone listings for Hans Franke in M?nchen and I don't know his exact address either. John Z. could dig deeper over there I'm sure. He'll reappear sometime I'm sure. I think this group is a bunch he can't stay away from now :) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Feb 24 09:20:50 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! Message-ID: <01BE5FDF.5A605140.steverob@hotoffice.com> > I have worked on various appliances ,electrical devices and/or wiring > most of my life, close to 50 years, and I have been "bitten" on occasion. > Of course, except for stoves and dryers, the voltage here is 110 v. I can > understand the respect given to 220v.(3wire) and have never worked on > anything at that voltage without shutting down the circuit. I have also been > very cautious about working on anything in damp conditions like in a > washroom or wet basement. I realize that it is the total amperage that kills > when you become ground. Most household circuits here are 15-20 amps. > Having been "bitten" to no ill effects other than by my reaction to the shock, > what are the parameters which would kill you on these circuits. e.g. rubber > soled shoes vs leather, etc. There is a common misconception that the amperage is what kills you. That is simply not true. At low frequency (50-60HZ) and DC, the human body is a simple resistive circuit and will obey OHMS law E=I*R. It is impossible to have one without the other! IIRC a current of approx 100MA through the trunk of the body is enough to stop the heart. If you measure the resistance of your body and plug those factors in the foumula, you'll get an idea of how much voltage it takes to kill you. The internal body parts actually have a fairly low electrical resistance. This is because your body is filled with fluids that are somewhat conductive. Most of the bodys resistance is due to the insulating properties of your skin. Dry skin is a relatively poor conductor of electricity but, when it is dampened the resistance becomes much lower. That is why medical probes have a conductive jelly on them. The electrolyte in the jelly breaks down the resistance of the skin and provides a better path for current into the body. A cars battery is capable of producing 100s of amperes of current however, it won't fry you. When you touch the poles of the battery, the amount of current (determined by the formula above), is very low and generally cannot be felt. However, if your hands are damp, you could get a minor electrical shock from it. NOTE: A shock from DC is a burning sensation rather than the "vibrating" sensation of 60HZ curent. There are a couple of ways to getting shocked when working on appliances. Some more dangerous than others. If you are working on a device and not well insulated from the ground, there is a current path from your hand through your trunk (and heart) directly to the ground. If you are foolish enough to stand in water while doing this, the resistance through the soles of your feet is much lower and the potential of a fatal shock is greater. Thick rubber soled shoes like tennis shoes and isolation transformers are the best protection here. If you are working with both hands, it is very possible to get zapped from hand to hand. Once again the current path is directly through the trunk (heart) of the body and is quite dangerous. That is why many electricians work with in hand in their pocket. A shock that is isolated to one hand could be painful but, isn't nearly as dangerous. The worst shock that I have received was working on a antenna for a HF transmitter. I was dumb enough to leave the equipment running while adjusting the antenna and someone keyed the transmitter from a remote location. A high frequency shock (like DC) is a burning sensation and I had the blisters to prove it. Steve Robertson - From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 24 09:56:03 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990223203118.0098ddd0@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224095603.00d14100@vpwisfirewall> At 01:55 AM 2/24/99 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: > >I was thinking more of general-purpose tools where you defined the format >of the disk (as in 80 track, single sided, 5 1024 byte sectors, etc) and >it made/dumped a disk image file. A program to handle CP/M disks would be >next on the list... I think there's great value in having a disk image format that can contain more than the raw data. For example, how do you solve the problem of archiving bad sectors? You want your raw disk reader to be able to recover from those types of errors, too. I seem to remember that Anadisk or Teledisk had defined its raw-plus format somewhere, I'll need to search my archives to find what I'm remembering. - John From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Feb 24 10:23:12 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: TCP/IP for DEC Pro's Message-ID: <990224112312.21c002c2@trailing-edge.com> >My DEC Pro has an ethernet card (DECNA) and POS has Pro/DECnet freely available. >As far as I can tell, there isn't any TCP/IP software for it. (But, if someone >knows of any, please let us know!). If you abandon POS, and instead install RT-11 (the best way, of course, is to buy RT-11 5.7, with all the Y2K hooks for the Pro realtime clock), you can put Alan Baldwin's TCP/IP for RT-11 on it quite easily. See http://shop-pdp.kent.edu/ (itself a RT-11 machine with a http server) for details. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 24 10:11:43 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Hans Franke? Message-ID: <19990224163527512.AAB201@fuj03> I saw a line from him just a couple of days ago. Dick ---------- > From: Sellam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Hans Franke? > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 4:21 AM > > > Did Hans Franke die or something? I haven't heard even a peep from that > loquacious Bavarian in a while. > > Maybe John Zabolitzky has heard from him in the past few weeks? > > Christian, do you have his telephone number by any chance? > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 24 10:35:38 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <01BE5FDF.5A605140.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990224113214.00a03ab0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:20 AM 2/24/99 -0500, Steve Robertson said something like: > -- snip -- >There is a common misconception that the amperage is what kills you. That >is simply not true. At low frequency (50-60HZ) and DC, the human body is a >simple resistive circuit and will obey OHMS law E=I*R. It is impossible to >have one without the other! > >IIRC a current of approx 100MA through the trunk of the body is enough to >stop the heart. If you measure the resistance of your body and plug those Uhh, that should be 100uA (_micro_ amperes) and even several uA only can stop the heart under the correct conditions. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From dogas at leading.net Wed Feb 24 10:49:44 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Address for John Healy Message-ID: <01be6015$adefb4a0$dec962cf@devlaptop> John, I lost your email address and would like to contact you. Please drop me a note. Thanks - Mike: dogas@leading.net From mark_k at iname.com Wed Feb 24 10:58:19 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) Message-ID: Hi, Are there any people who have Amiga 1000s on this list? If so, please contact me, even if you can't help directly with the things mentioned below. Boot ROM -------- Inside the A1000 there is a boot ROM whose purpose is to load Kickstart from disk. In normal use -- after Kickstart is loaded -- this ROM is not visible. I want to try and get the data from the boot ROM dumped to disk; it will be interesting to disassemble this and see how it works. To do this requires using a little trick (involving the RESET instruction), which only works when Fast RAM is present. I can write a program to hopefully allow the boot ROM data to be dumped. This would need to be run on an A1000 which has Fast RAM. Please let me know if you're interested in helping with this. Kickstart 27.5 and early Amiga demos ------------------------------------ Many years ago, I received a catalogue disk from an American company called Chiron Conceptions Public Domain, who used to advertise in Amiga World magazine. Listed there were some very early Amiga demos, used for the Amiga launch in 1985. They require a pre-1.0 Kickstart, version 27.5, to work. I would really like to get hold of any of these demos and Kickstart 27.5. Below is the listing from the PD catalogue. VERSION 27.5 DEMO DISKS ======================= CC-001 --VERSION 27.5 KICKSTART Prerelease version of Amiga Kickstart. Needed for some disks. (NOTE: Will not work on the Amiga 500 or 2000). CC-002 --AMIGA SHOW STOPPER PAK Includes two of the demos shown at the Amiga debut at Lincoln Center: Eagle Demo Watch the eagle as it swoops over the digitized mountain range. Listen to it's screams as it glides across your screen! An endless loop demo. Ballet Stills A series of superb digitized graphic stills of a ballerina. (NOTE:Requires Version 27.5 Kickstart (CC-001) and thus will not run on the Amiga 500 or 2000). CC-003 --ISLAND GRAPHICS DEMO SET A two disk set of graphics pictures and animations demonstrating the Amiga. Very nicely done. (Requires external disk drive & Version 27.5 Kickstart-(CC-001) and thus will not run on the Amiga 500 or 2000). CC-004 --ELECTRONIC ARTS GRAPHICS DEMO A two disk set demonstrating Amiga's music, graphic, and voice abilities. Includes digitized voice, scenes from EA's Amiga software, music, and digitized photos.(NOTE: Requires 2 drives, 512K, and Version 27.5 KickStart (CC-001) and thus will not run on the Amiga 500 or 2000). Regards, -- Mark From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Wed Feb 24 13:02:09 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: here's the list . . . Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8F42500@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > > Erm, sounds like that AMI chip is a clone of Motorola's 6847 VDG, which > was > used in Tandy's CoCo 1 & 2, and the MC-10. > > I wonder: > > 1) if they're pin compatible, > 2) if they've got added functionality -- might be fun to play with in one > of my CoCo's if there is! > It's quite likely that AMI's 68047 is a clone of Motorola's 6847, because AMI used to supply pin-for-pin equivalents of a number of Motorola 6800-family devices, including the 6821 Peripheral Interface Adapter and the 6850 Asynchronous Communications Interface Adapter. The 68047 and 6847 are both 40-pin chips, but I don't have an AMI datasheet handy. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Wed Feb 24 11:22:38 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! Message-ID: <80256722.00602443.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> >> Try "Exec". I don't have any details of how to use it, sorry. Let me know >> what you find out. >> > > Hmmm...this brings back some memories. From my recollection, this > statement accepted a string argument. The character string supplied > was coded in a special pseudo-hexadecimal: > > 0="0", 1="1", 2="2", 3="3", 4="4", 5="5", 6="6", 7="7" > 8="8", 9="9", a=":", b=";" c="<", d="=", e=">", f="?" > > For example, to represent the hex sequence 6e7f391d, the string would be > "6>7?391=" > > Each two characters represent a byte. > > Now, using this method, you could 'code' 6800 machine code instructions. > > The EXEC statement would store the bytes supplied in the string argument > as a linear sequence of machine code, and cause a jump to the segment > of code. I don't recall if it was JMP'd to, or JSR'd to...and don't > remember any of the details of how to return from a segment of code > executed with the EXEC statement. Obviously, sending random stuff > to an EXEC statement could wedge the machine up. > > I remember that EXEC was used frequently by folks who were experts > with the machine (and had magic lists of the internal runtime > calls) to make game programs and stuff in machine code that would > run much faster than the interpreted BASIC. It also allowed > 'extensions' to BASIC that you could use to do things like PEEK and POKE, > etc. There were conventions for passing variables in and out of > EXEC'd code, so BASIC could be used for 'high level' functions, and > the fast EXEC'd machine code could be used for time-critical or > other functions that were too slow, or too tedious (IE: bit manipulation) > to do in BASIC. > > Hope this helps. It's all from foggy memories..all the fun with 4051's > that I had happened sometime around 1978...21 years ago. I'm amazed > that I can remember ANY of it, given that many times I can't remember > where I put my car keys :-) Rick, you wonderful person! I wonder what this does on the 4052... Something to try when I get home tonight, perhaps. Joe, what was it you were saying about already having picked Rick's brains? (FWIW I am still negotiating a trade with Zane for that ROM) Now what we need are some exec calls for things like peek, poke, reading the joystick port without a "pointer" instruction, and so on. I must step up the pace of my own research... Philip. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 24 13:20:52 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224132052.00f64c90@vpwisfirewall> At 04:58 PM 2/24/99 +0000, Mark wrote: > >Listed there were some very early Amiga demos, used for the Amiga launch in >1985. They require a pre-1.0 Kickstart, version 27.5, to work. I would really >like to get hold of any of these demos and Kickstart 27.5. Below is the >listing from the PD catalogue. I've got these demo disks, and this early Kickstart disk. - John From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 24 13:27:11 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: (message from Mark on Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:58:19 +0000) References: Message-ID: <19990224192711.3137.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I want to try and get the data from the boot ROM dumped to disk; it will be > interesting to disassemble this and see how it works. So it wouldn't be useful to you if I simply pulled the ROMs out of the Amiga and read them using an EPROM programmer? From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 24 13:34:28 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <19990224192711.3137.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224133428.00fa8100@vpwisfirewall> At 07:27 PM 2/24/99 -0000, you wrote: >> I want to try and get the data from the boot ROM dumped to disk; it will be >> interesting to disassemble this and see how it works. > >So it wouldn't be useful to you if I simply pulled the ROMs out of the Amiga >and read them using an EPROM programmer? No, that's the point - Amiga Kickstart was the ROM, loaded from disk into RAM. The Workbench OS disk was loaded second, after the Kickstart. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 12:37:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <199902240755.CAA07876@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 24, 99 02:58:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3590 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/453af8cc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 13:10:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990224095603.00d14100@vpwisfirewall> from "John Foust" at Feb 24, 99 09:56:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 677 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/3464761a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 12:54:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Feb 24, 99 04:00:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 709 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/5a80ec73/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 24 13:51:38 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: here's the list . . . Message-ID: <19990224195020508.AAA190@fuj03> It has been about 20 years since I was involved with the AMI chip, but I do recall that the AMI version is a superset of the MOT version. It has features not present in the MOT part. I rather doubt they are interchangeable without firmware modifications. AMI also made a few parts for the MOT processor family which MOT themselves never got around to building. One example is the 6834, which is a two-ported RAM, I believe. It was intended for communication between multiple processors in a system, but MOT really didn't implement this until they put out the 68121, which was apparently intended as an intelligent peripheral controller for an MC68000 family processor. The '121 was a 6803 with a built-in 6834. The part's use was envisioned in a rather narrow way and, hence never saw much popularity, as it was difficult to use in any way outside this narrow scope. I'll see if I can find an old AMI databook . . . Dick ---------- > From: Arlen Michaels > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: here's the list . . . > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 12:02 PM > > On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > >> BIOTECH ELECTRONICS BCT800 graphics board - uses AMI 68047 chip and 12 > > > > Erm, sounds like that AMI chip is a clone of Motorola's 6847 VDG, which > > was > > used in Tandy's CoCo 1 & 2, and the MC-10. > > > > I wonder: > > > > 1) if they're pin compatible, > > 2) if they've got added functionality -- might be fun to play with in one > > of my CoCo's if there is! > > > It's quite likely that AMI's 68047 is a clone of Motorola's 6847, because > AMI used to supply pin-for-pin equivalents of a number of Motorola > 6800-family devices, including the 6821 Peripheral Interface Adapter and the > 6850 Asynchronous Communications Interface Adapter. The 68047 and 6847 are > both 40-pin chips, but I don't have an AMI datasheet handy. > > Arlen > > -- > Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Feb 24 11:04:45 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <199902240755.CAA07876@smtp.interlog.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990224110445.23dfad7e@earthlink.net> At 02:58 AM 2/24/99 +0000, Lawrence wrote: > I used isolating transformers in electronics lab (more than 15 years ago) and >had them explained at that time. I've forgotten their functioning. IIRC they >are an ordinary transformer, altered to provide "isolation" from ground (via >your body). I have several large transformers. How difficult would it be to >build one from these. > An isolation transformer just has its output winding which isn't grounded, unlike the mains AC. This is so if you (or another transformerless circuit) touch it and are grounded, you don't complete the circuit. If you have 2 similar transformers with an isolated secondary (not an autotransformer), you can connect them back to back to form a isolation transformer. As an extreme and not recommended because of the HV, I have seen this done with microwave oven transformers. This would be much easier than removing an existing secondary and winding you own isolation winding. Of course, if you want a single custom transformer, rewinding is an option. -Dave From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 24 14:28:32 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990224095603.00d14100@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224142832.00faba00@vpwisfirewall> At 07:10 PM 2/24/99 +0000, you wrote: >> You want your raw disk >> reader to be able to recover from those types of errors, too. > >Is this a big problem? > >Unless the bad sector has to remain bad - i.e. it's used for part of a >copy-protection scheme - then surely archiving it as _anything_ is OK. >The OS should ignore bad sectors when you use the real disk, so if you >write the image back to a real disk, it will ignore the arbitrary data >you stuck in the image. Yes, you need a read-raw utility that's smart enough to inject null data when the sector can't be read. I think it's useful to know that the archived disk had errors when reading, and to record that in the file. Also, a file header can be useful for indexing - then there's something in the file that can represent what was scrawled on the paper label, for example. - John From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 24 14:38:47 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990224093812.2507b5a4@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > At 10:45 PM 2/23/99 -0800, George wrote: > > >Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? > > > > Will the CPM for the 803 or one of the other models work on the 820? > Does anyone know what the capability is between the various Televiedo models? No, and for a variety of reasons, Joe. First. the 820 can only read single density disks and the TeleVideo disks are all double density. Even the DD 820-II disk uses a single density first track, so it would choke too. Second, the Xerox 820 disks read all of the first side before even venturing into the second side, whereas, the TeleVideo machines read the tracks on both sides of the disk before moving the heads to the nexr track. Third, there are other format differences also. Different number of sectors per track, different skew, ... As to the Televideo disks, most of the machines can read/write another models disks. However, there is much less commonality between CP/M operating systems used. A few will interchange, others will not. - don From erd at infinet.com Wed Feb 24 14:37:24 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990224133428.00fa8100@vpwisfirewall> from "John Foust" at Feb 24, 99 01:34:28 pm Message-ID: <199902242037.PAA07895@user2.infinet.com> > > At 07:27 PM 2/24/99 -0000, you wrote: > >> I want to try and get the data from the boot ROM dumped to disk; it will be > >> interesting to disassemble this and see how it works. > > > >So it wouldn't be useful to you if I simply pulled the ROMs out of the Amiga > >and read them using an EPROM programmer? > > No, that's the point - Amiga Kickstart was the ROM, loaded from disk > into RAM. The Workbench OS disk was loaded second, after the Kickstart. No, _you_ missed the point. The boot ROMs in the A1000 are only smart enough to suck in the KickStart disk. Amiga KickStart _behaves_ like a ROM does in other machines, but isn't. Same goes for the A3000 (although the original A3K ROMs happened to have an embedded 1.4 image). The Kickstart image gets stuffed into the WCS daughter card in the A1000 (or into FAST RAM in the A3000), then a flag gets flipped to map the newly loaded Kickstart image over top of the boot ROMs. If you are trying to read the physical ROMs to a disk, then pulling them and sticking them in an EPROM reader/writer will do what you need. If you are trying to suck Kickstart out of the machine, then the real ROMs are irrelevant. -ethan From mikeford at netwiz.net Wed Feb 24 13:15:29 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . . In-Reply-To: <19990220185103495.AAA89@fuj03> Message-ID: >My problem stems from the fact that there are WAY too many things for me to >handle at once, Sam. You wanted me to pack the stuff and have it shipped >via an economical method but which required me to package and haul the >stuff some 45 miles to the airport area. I just haven't the resources I can relate to your problem, as can most others. Its a fine line between preserve, hoard, and a rubber tongue depressor and electric shocks until collecting junk is less appealing (the latter what I think my wife has in mind for me). I don't see what her gripe is, I move stuff off the washing machine if she really needs to use it. Packing and shipping though is a straight forward problem, which I would love to see a discussion of. Heavy old junk. The only thing I see practical here is the personal transport option, stick it in the trunk, back of the pickup, etc. I am curious about the creation of some sort of hardware hitch hiker pool, so people going from one place to another anyway, might consider hauling some junk for others besides there own junk. From elvey at hal.com Wed Feb 24 14:50:11 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990224113214.00a03ab0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <199902242050.MAA19495@civic.hal.com> Christian Fandt wrote: > Upon the date 10:20 AM 2/24/99 -0500, Steve Robertson said something like: > > > -- snip -- > >There is a common misconception that the amperage is what kills you. That > >is simply not true. At low frequency (50-60HZ) and DC, the human body is a > >simple resistive circuit and will obey OHMS law E=I*R. It is impossible to > >have one without the other! > > > >IIRC a current of approx 100MA through the trunk of the body is enough to > >stop the heart. If you measure the resistance of your body and plug those > > Uhh, that should be 100uA (_micro_ amperes) and even several uA only can > stop the heart under the correct conditions. > Hi The number I remember was 20-50mA. There are two ways to kill one self. One is to cause the heart to convulse and the other is to burn the tissue. To cause the heart to convulse takes a smaller amount of current but the heart will usually restart when removed from the current. This is why high DC is more dangerous than AC. With DC, your muscles tend to lock, holding onto the hot wire. This keeps the heart locked up also. With low frequency AC, it tends to make the muscles jerk. This usually separates one from the hot wire. In all of these cases, so far, at most, artificial respiration will bring one back. In the next realm is the higher currents that actually burn the heart tissue. You rarely recover from this. Now on to RF. Even though there may be a high enough current, most only suffer surface skin damage. This is because of the fact that the current in RF tends to flow mostly on the surface because fast change in directions of current also require that the magnetic field associated with it be able to change as well. Changing magnetic fields create eddy currents in conductors that limit the rate that they can penetrate that conductor. This is called the "Skin Effect". What it means is that for RF or short pulse DC ( such as lightning ) the current tends to stay on the surface of your body and not effect the internal parts as much. This is why some live through lightning strikes but the guy working on the washing machine is dead. While working around CRT's the high voltage anode is a problem. It will not usually kill one but it will make you uncontrollably jump. Where your hand and arm go, may be through the back of the tube. This is usually a bloody experience. Dwight From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 24 14:53:46 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <199902242037.PAA07895@user2.infinet.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990224133428.00fa8100@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224145346.00f87b70@vpwisfirewall> At 03:37 PM 2/24/99 -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> No, that's the point - Amiga Kickstart was the ROM, loaded from disk >> into RAM. The Workbench OS disk was loaded second, after the Kickstart. > >No, _you_ missed the point. Thank you, Professor Explication, for elucidating my summary. - John From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 14:56:46 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Tell me about it. I have been looking for a replacement unit or the > schematics for my Lisa 2 PSU (part number 699-0190) for a long time now. > There is a schematic for a Lisa PSU available on the Net, but I believe > this may be for a Lisa 1 as it varies significantly from the components I > have inside my unit. The only major difference between the origina Lisa power supply and the Lisa 2 supply is the amount of Amperage produced. The original P/S for the Lisa and Lisa 2 puts out 1.2A and the Lisa 2/10 P/S puts out 1.8A. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 24 15:07:41 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, George Rachor wrote: > Through a series of misadventures over the years I've ended up with > a couple of Xerox 820 machines. One is an 820-2 and the other a straight > 820. I've got both the original dual floppy bay and the 8 inch floppy/HD > combo. > > Today I ran across a 5.25 inch subassembly but have no 5.25 inch software. > > Two questions: > > Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? I have it. E-mail me. > Was there ever a 5.25 inch floppy/ hard drive combo offered? I believe that the Xerox 16/8 - a successor to the 820-II - had a package called the DEM (Disk Expansion Module) that provided for both 5.25" and hard disk storage. - don > Cheers, > > George Rachor > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 15:10:56 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Handbooks Message-ID: <199902242110.NAA26825@saul10.u.washington.edu> Kevin's message propelled me to look through our library catalog for all the DEC handbooks we have. (I already sent the list to him.) That made me think of a question I've had for a while. Megan or Allison, maybe you know the answer? You two seem to have vast collections of manuals. Our library has volume 1 of a two-volume _Introduction to Programming_ set. I've always wondered what was in the other volume. (It covers details of the languages supported on the PDP-8.) But I've never seen the two-volume set anywhere else, just a one-volume book. And while I'm at it... We have the OS/8 handbook as well. I've never been clear on what the different versions of OS/8 are, so I don't know how early or late our handbook is. The OS/8 book does mention using a TD8E system, which requires either 12K of RAM or a special ROM page. Unfortunately, the Intro to Programming handbook doesn't explain how the ROM is installed. The programming handbook is specific to the 8/E, but it omits a lot of details about customizing your 8/E. I do understand that the TD8E was a total corner-cutting move -- it shifted the burden of getting the bits off the tape from the hardware to the software, right? -- and is universally regarded as a disgrace. -- Derek From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 24 15:10:18 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <199902242037.PAA07895@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > The Kickstart image gets stuffed into the WCS daughter card in the A1000 Was I the only one bothered by the Amiga guys calling this a Writable Control Store? Call it slushware, but WCS means microcode to me. -- Doug From erd at infinet.com Wed Feb 24 15:23:42 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990224145346.00f87b70@vpwisfirewall> from "John Foust" at Feb 24, 99 02:53:46 pm Message-ID: <199902242123.QAA09139@user2.infinet.com> > > At 03:37 PM 2/24/99 -0500, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> > >> No, that's the point - Amiga Kickstart was the ROM, loaded from disk > >> into RAM. The Workbench OS disk was loaded second, after the Kickstart. > > > >No, _you_ missed the point. > > Thank you, Professor Explication, for elucidating my summary. Not quite. You said (briefly) "Amiga Kickstart was the ROM...", I said (verbosely) that there are ROMs, and there is Kickstart that acts like ROM acts on other computers. If I understand the original request, it was regarding the contents of the physical EPROMs on the A1000 montherboard, not the contents of the WCS board after Kickstart has loaded. -ethan From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 15:30:25 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 Message-ID: Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also be cool. Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From elvey at hal.com Wed Feb 24 15:36:28 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902242136.NAA19543@civic.hal.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I > need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also > be cool. > > Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) > Hi Sellam I have a user manual for the 8008 someplace. I'd have to look around to see if I have anything on the 1101. I'm sure I can find it for a 2101 but not sure about the 1101. Dwight From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Feb 24 18:38:37 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: NEC APCIII - Any insights? Message-ID: <01be6057$2ead8ea0$c59ba6d1@the-general> Hi! My school has an old NEC APCIII. All I know about it is that it's an AMD 8086-2, and had a hard drive and floppy drive. What I want to know is if there is a way to make it boot from the floppy. I turn it on, it beeps, sits for about 2 minutes, says : DOS 2.11 command interpreter, then locks. it only beeps when a key is pressed. Any ideas on how to get into setup? -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From mbg at world.std.com Wed Feb 24 16:10:10 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Handbooks Message-ID: <199902242210.AA09310@world.std.com> >Our library has volume 1 of a two-volume _Introduction to Programming_ >set. I've always wondered what was in the other volume. (It covers >details of the languages supported on the PDP-8.) But I've never seen >the two-volume set anywhere else, just a one-volume book. The second volume was the _programming languages_ handbook. >And while I'm at it... We have the OS/8 handbook as well. I've never >been clear on what the different versions of OS/8 are, so I don't know >how early or late our handbook is. I'm afraid I can't speak to that... when I first used a pdp-8, it was with 4k and an ASR33 -- it took too long to load editor, then assembler, then linker by low speed paper tape, so we learned really quickly how to hand-code and toggle the programs in through the front panel. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 24 16:12:11 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: DEC Handbooks - information please. In-Reply-To: <199902210324.WAA19022@golden.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990224170746.009b56e0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:24 PM 2/20/99 -0500, Unusual systems said something like: >I am trying to compile a pictoral history of DEC handbooks. The tentative -- snip -- >If you have any DEC handbooks, please send an email directly to me with the >titles and dates of publication. Please only send a message if you have the >title, not just if you sort'a know it might exist. Hi Kevin, I'm about ready to make a list of my Handbooks. I need to ask you if you've decided you would like any further detail on each handbook (based on additional details others may have added to their lists sent to you) such as the document number, edition, etc.? Thanks, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 24 16:38:10 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: PDP-8 Handbooks References: <199902242110.NAA26825@saul10.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <36D47F52.2EEA03A9@rain.org> Derek Peschel wrote: > > Our library has volume 1 of a two-volume _Introduction to Programming_ set. > I've always wondered what was in the other volume. (It covers details of > the languages supported on the PDP-8.) But I've never seen the two-volume > set anywhere else, just a one-volume book. The number of volumes appear to depend on the publishing date. My 1969 "Introduction to Programming" is a single volume, while 1970 and 1971 are two volumes. I only have the second volume for 1970, and the table of contents for both volumes are given on the inside cover of each volume. It contains: Chapter 11. Focal Chapter 12. BASIC Chapter 13. 4K Assemblers Chapter 14. 8K Assemblers Chapter 15. 8K Fortran Chapter 16. Floating Point Package and Math Routines From erd at infinet.com Wed Feb 24 16:36:33 1999 From: erd at infinet.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: from "Doug" at Feb 24, 99 04:10:18 pm Message-ID: <199902242236.RAA10187@user2.infinet.com> > > On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > The Kickstart image gets stuffed into the WCS daughter card in the A1000 > > Was I the only one bothered by the Amiga guys calling this a Writable > Control Store? Call it slushware, but WCS means microcode to me. My first exposure to "WCS" was in the context of microcode - on a VAX-11/750. I, too, was surprised to see them reuse "WCS" on the A1000, given what it does. The only place I've seen the term "slushware" used is on the DECmate boxes. AFAIK, its use there matches your use here. -ethan From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 24 17:21:09 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990224133428.00fa8100@vpwisfirewall> (message from John Foust on Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:34:28 -0600) References: <3.0.5.32.19990224133428.00fa8100@vpwisfirewall> Message-ID: <19990224232109.4644.qmail@brouhaha.com> John Foust wrote: > No, that's the point - Amiga Kickstart was the ROM, loaded from disk > into RAM. The Workbench OS disk was loaded second, after the Kickstart. Well, if it's the Kickstart code you're trying to extract, I don't understand why you need to do wacky things with the RESET instruction and fast memory. The Kickstart code is right on the floppy disk, plain as day. From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed Feb 24 18:33:30 1999 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (RICCARDO) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! Message-ID: <199902250033.BAA03544@beta.queen.it> I'm following the discussion around the danger of household circuits: >> I have worked on various appliances ,electrical devices and/or wiring >> most of my life, close to 50 years, and I have been "bitten" on occasion. >> Of course, except for stoves and dryers, the voltage here is 110 v. I >can >> understand the respect given to 220v.(3wire) and have never worked on >> anything at that voltage without shutting down the circuit. I have also >been >> very cautious about working on anything in damp conditions like in a >> washroom or wet basement. Travelling in some other EU countryes, I've noticed that few household installations have "SAFETY DIFFERENTIAL-CURRENT BREAKERS" (here in Italy are called "Salva-vita=Life-saver), and also from these messages I learn that 220v are used also in the US (surprise) for heavy applications, but again nobody from both side of the ocean refers to the presence, safetiness, of these devices that here are used and mandatory from 15-20 years. I would like to hear from you all what's the situation there, if they are diffused, you use them, are considered (toghether with earthing) enough to avoid danger situations. Ciao Riccardo Romagnoli From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 24 17:33:16 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <199902242236.RAA10187@user2.infinet.com> (message from Ethan Dicks on Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:36:33 -0500 (EST)) References: <199902242236.RAA10187@user2.infinet.com> Message-ID: <19990224233316.4724.qmail@brouhaha.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > The only place I've seen the term "slushware" used is on the DECmate boxes. > AFAIK, its use there matches your use here. Not really. The slushware on a DECmate is in an entirely different address space from user code, and can only be invoked by trapped I/O instructions and the like. It is much more like the System Management Mode of the recent x86 processors (late-486-era to present). The Kickstart code on the Amiga is the normal operating system in the normal address space, and directly interacts with user code. From jlwest at tseinc.com Wed Feb 24 17:52:25 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . .(NOW PACKING AND SHIPPING) Message-ID: <005c01be6050$bbbc90e0$0101a8c0@jay> >Packing and shipping though is a straight forward problem, which I would >love to see a discussion of. > >Heavy old junk. >The only thing I see practical here is the personal transport option, stick >it in the trunk, back of the pickup, etc. I am curious about the creation >of some sort of hardware hitch hiker pool, so people going from one place >to another anyway, might consider hauling some junk for others besides >there own junk. With regards to shipping, here's my "magic" solution (like there is one) ;) Find an associate (friend, spouse, customer, etc.) who works somewhere that does a lot of shipping. These companies get HUGE discounts off shipping costs from folks like roadway, ups, etc. Then see if you can have them do the shipping in to their warehouse, and you pick it up from there. You of course offer to pay their shipping cost outright (still a huge savings for you off normal pricing) or you can setup a barter arrangement with the company (like helping with their PC network). Case in point - I'm having a pallet with a HP21MX rack, including 15231 power supply (heavy), cpu (somewhat heavy), and 7900A disk drive (VERY heavy) sent to St. Louis from California. Normal roadway shipping cost is around $695.00. However, a customer of mine does a lot of shipping and their cost from roadway is $195.00. I'm doing side consulting work for them to pay off their cost, but in a barter arrangement you could easily offer them a bit more work/time in trade than their cost for their trouble. That all being said, I've driven hundreds of miles to pick up something for my collection. But in a pinch, the above method can be better at times. I myself would be MOST interested in forming some type of hardware pickup arrangements with folks in other areas. I'll pickup stuff in my area for you - you do the same for me in your area. Then once every so often several of us could meet halfway to exchange the stuff for others and/or ourselves. Perhaps each person gets partial gas reimbursement if it's only equipment for others... who knows - I'm just throwing out ideas for all to throw stones at. FYI - I'm in St. Louis, MO - a nice central location, so I'd be happy to hold onto those 5 altairs and 8 imsai8080's for ya Finally - I'm going to be in Irvine, CA (flying into LAX though) march 3,4,5, and a bit on saturday the 6th. Two questions - 1) Can anyone direct me to any favorite surplus/salvage stores in the area I can scavenge in my spare time while I'm out there? and 2) If anyone on this list is in the Irvine area, I'd be happy to buy ya a cup of coffee and exchange stories about when computers were real computers :) See ya! Jay West From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 24 18:02:57 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:22 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) Message-ID: <199902250002.AA10691@world.std.com> Message-ID: Here is my list from my database. First "field" is the manual number. Then the machine. Then the manual name, and, at the end, the year. Results are sorted by year. Some of the years may be approximate, but most are from the spine of the book. Jay Jaeger DEC-S8-OSHBA-A-1 PDP-8 OS/8 Handbook Addendum New Handlers (DEC-S8-OSHBA-A-DN1) C-105 The digital Logic Handbook 1966 C-105 digital Logic Handbook 1967 C-110 PDP-8,8/S,9,10 LINC8 digital INDUSTRIAL HANDBOOK 1967 C-800 PDP-8, LINC-8 digital Small Computer Handbook 1967 C-105 digital Logic Handbook 1968 C-800 PDP-8/I digital small computer handbook 1968 C-9 PDP-8/L PDP-8/L USERS HANDBOOK (Steve LaMotte) 1968 C-105 digital Logic Handbook (Positive Logic Edition) 1969 C-110 digital Control Handbook 1969 DEC-12-GRZA-D PDP-12 PDP-12 User Handbook (Preliminary) AKA System Reference Manual 1969 042D-00370-AKO digital Logic Handbook 1970 082X-01168-AJF PDP-8/I, PDP-8/L digital small computer handbook 1970 082X-01169-AJF PDP-8/I, PDP-8/L digital small computer handbook 1970 112X 01269 AJO PDP-11 digital pdp11 handbook second edition 1970 112X-01269-AJO PDP-11 Digital PDP11 handbook 1970 C-110 digital control handbook 1970 DEC-00-GWZA-D PDP-8, PDP-10 dec communications equipment handbook 1970 DEC-15-H2DB-D PDP-15 PDP-15 Systems User's Handbook, Vol. 1 Processor 1970 042X 00371 1359 digital logic handbook 1971 122X-01170-ATA PDP-12 digital laboratory computer handbook 1971 122X-01170-ATA PDP-12 laboratory computer handbook 1971 142X 00970 APH digital control handbook 1971 DEC-11-GGPB-D PDP-11 PDP-11 paper tape software programming handbook 1971 DEC-11-MWDB-D PDP-11 PDP-11 Disk Operating System Monitor Programmer's Handbook 1971 DEC-11-SERA-D PDP-11 PDP-11 Disk Operating System (DOS) Monitor Programmer's Handbook 1971 058-00672-2101 PDP-8/e, PDP-11 digital logic system design handbook 1972 082X-01071-A1589 PDP-8/e, PDP-8/m pdp8/e & pdp 8/m small computer handbook 1972 112-00871-2287 PDP-11/40 digital processor handbook pdp11/40 1972 112-01071-1854 PDP-11 digital peripherals and interfacing handbook pdp11 1972 112-01071-1855 PDP-11/20 digital processor handbook pdp11/20,15,r20 1972 112-01071-1876 PDP-11/45 digital processor handbook pdp11/45 1972 C-105 digital logic handbook 1972 DEC-11-GGPC-D PDP-11 PDP-11 PAPER TAPE SOFTWARE PROGRAMMING HANDBOOK 1972 DEC-11-OMONA-A-D PDP-11 Disk Operating System Monitor Programmer's Handbook 1972 018-00173-2546 PDP-8/e, /m, /f pdp-8/e pdp-8/m & pdp-8/f small computer handbook 1973 018-00972-3060 PDP-8 introduction to programming, digital pdp-8 handbook series 1973 083-00173-2306 PDP-8/e digital edusystem handbook 1973 112-00173-2613 PDP-11/05,10,35,40 pdp11 processor handbook (05,10,35,40) 1973 112-00973-2908 PDP-11 peripherals handbook / programming, interfacing 1973 67-00473-2743 PDP-11/45 digital processor handbook pdp11/45 1973 C-105 digital logic handbook 1973 DEC-11-XPTSA-A-D PDP-11 PDP-11 Paper Tape Software Programming Handbook 1973 DEC-11-ODBHA-A-D PDP-11 The DOS/Batch Handbook Monitor Version V09 1974 DEC-S8-OSHBA-A-D PDP-8/e OS/8 handbook 1974 DEC-S8-OSHBA-A-D PDP-8/e os/8 handbook 1974 DEC-11-XPTSA-A-D PDP-11 PDP-11 Paper Tape Programming Handbook Addendum Number 2 DN2 1975 DEC-11-XPTSA-A-D PDP-11 PDP-11 Paper Tape Software Programming Handbook Addendum DN1 1975 DEC-S8-OSHBA-A-2 PDP-9 OS/8 Handbook Addendum No. 2 DEC-S8-OSHBA-A-DN2 1975 EB 546B/7510A 20 PDP-11/70 digital PDP-11/70 Processor Handbook 1975 EB-04595-75 PDP-8/a pdp-8/a miniprocessor handbook 1975 EB-04870-75 060 LSI-11 lsi11 pdp11/03 processor handbook 1975 EB-05117-60/20 PDP-11 pdp11 peripherals handbook 1975 EB-05138-76 PDP-11/04,05,10,35, pdp11 04/05/10/35/40/45 processor handbook 1975 DEC-11-XPTSA-B-D PDP-11 PDP-11 Paper Tape Software Handbook 1976 EB-05360-75 PDP-11 pdp11 software handbook 1976 EB-05961-76 PDP-11 pdp11 peripherals handbook 1976 EB-06707-20/77 PDP-11/04,34,45,55 pdp11 processor handbook (04/34/45/55) 1976 EB-P1052-76 digital logic handbook 1976 EB-06036-76 digital logic handbook 1977 EB-06219-76 PDP-8/a pdp-8/a minicomputer handbook 1977 EB-06498-20/77 PDP-11/60 pdp11/60 processor handbook 1977 EB-06583-76 LSI-11 digital microcomputer handbook 1977 EB-07459-58/77 PDP-11 LSI-11 PDP-8 digital logic handbook 1977 EB-07466-20/77 VAX-11 VAX11 780 Architecture Handbook 1977 EB-07466-20/77 VAX-11/780 VAX11 780 Architecture Handbook 1977 EB-08126-20/77 VAX-11 VAX11 Software Handbook 1977 EB-08127-20/77 PDP-11 pdp11 software handbook 1978 EB-09430-20/78 PDP-11/04,34,45,55, pdp11 processor handbook (04/34/45/55/60) 1978 EB-09987-20/78 VAX-11/780 VAX11 780 Hardware Handbook 1978 EB-15114-78/78 LSI-11 microcomputer handbook series memories and peripherals 1978 EB-15115-78/78 LSI-11 microcomputer handbook series microcomputer processors 1978 EB-09798-20/78 PDP-11 pdp11 software handbook 1979 EB-09876-58/78 computer interfacing accessories and logic handbook 1979 EB-15836-18/79 PDP-11 LSI-11 digital microcomputer processor handbook (including memories) 1979 EB-17716-18/79 PDP-11 pdp11 processor handbook (pdp11/04/34a/44/60/70) 1979 EB-P1195-03/78 digital Distributed Systems Handbook 1979 EB-17580-18/79 VAX-11 VAX11 Architecture Handbook 1980 EB-17723-20/80 LSI-11 digital microcomputer interfaces handbook 1980 EB-17835-18/79 VAX-11/780 VAX-11/780 Hardware Handbook 1980 EB-18293-20/80 PDP-11 digital peripherals handbook 1980 EB-18687-20/80 PDP-11 pdp11 software handbook 1981 EB-19402-20/81 PDP-11/04,24,34a,44, pdp11 processor handbook (pdp11/04/24/34a/44/70) 1981 EB-19580-20/83 VAX-11 VAX Architecture Handbook 1981 EB-21710-20/83 VAX-11 VAX Hardware Handbook 1982 EB-21812-20/83 VAX-11 VAX Software Handbook 1982 EK-VAXV1-HB-002 VAX-11 VAX Maintenance Handbook VAX Systems 1983 Edition 1983 EK-VAXV3-HB-001 VAX-11/750 VAX Maintenance Handbook VAX-11/750 1983 Edition 1983 EB-23144-18/84 PDP-11, LSI-11 PDP-11 Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook 1984 EB-26078-41/85 PDP-11, LSI-11 digital Microcomputer Products Handbook 1985 EB-28783-41/86 PDP-11 PDP-11 Software Handbook 1986 AP-02013-85 VAX-11 PDP-11 Software Handbook Spring/Summer 1987 1987 At 07:31 AM 2/21/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Is this request just limited to the 'paperback' Handbooks, or is >>other, non "Orange Wall" literature and docs included? >> >Yes John, you're correct. This list is dedicated to the 'paperback' >Handbooks exclusively. > >Thank you for prompting the clarification and offering to send your own >inventory list. > >Keep'em comin folks. > >Yours in good faith. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------- >Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca >+1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 > >Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from > the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. > >Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & >Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 >. > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection Jay.Jaeger@msn.fullfeed.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 18:05:14 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 boot ROM & Kickstart 27.5(!) In-Reply-To: <19990224232109.4644.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 24, 99 11:21:09 pm Message-ID: <199902250005.QAA08144@saul4.u.washington.edu> Eric Smith wrote: > John Foust wrote: > > No, that's the point - Amiga Kickstart was the ROM, loaded from disk > > into RAM. The Workbench OS disk was loaded second, after the Kickstart. > Well, if it's the Kickstart code you're trying to extract, I don't understand > why you need to do wacky things with the RESET instruction and fast memory. > The Kickstart code is right on the floppy disk, plain as day. *sigh* Should I get involved? It's really not that complicated. Amiga 1000 Newer Amigas 1. Using "pre-boot" ROM, load Kickstart from disk; stash Kickstart on daughterboard and switch off "pre-boot" ROM. 2. Using Kickstart "ROM" (on the 1. Using Kickstart ROM, daugherboard), load Workbench OS load Workbench OS from disk. from disk. 3. The OS is booted now. 2. The OS is booted now. John (or whoever -- I can't keep track!) wants to extract the "pre-boot" ROM that is unique to the Amiga 1000. Not the Kickstart ROM, not the Kickstart disk image, not the Workbench OS. The RESET instruction is just a fancy means to write a program (which runs after the OS has been booted) which switches the switched-out ROM back in. As other people have pointed out, putting the actual chip into a ROM reader is an alternate solution. I must say that one of the few Amigas I've used was a 1000, and I remember the boot process all too well. It was very slow without a hard drive! All the "pre-boot" ROM does (as far as I can tell) is to show an animation of a disk being inserted, and read a bunch of sectors from the disk, and switch itself off. -- Derek From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Feb 24 18:15:50 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was References: <199902250033.BAA03544@beta.queen.it> Message-ID: <36D49636.467C10E4@hotoffice.com> RICCARDO wrote: > Travelling in some other EU countryes, I've noticed that > few household installations have "SAFETY DIFFERENTIAL-CURRENT BREAKERS" > (here in Italy are called "Salva-vita=Life-saver), and also from these > messages I learn that 220v are used also in the US (surprise) for heavy > applications, but again nobody from both side of the ocean refers to the > presence, safetiness, of these devices that here are used and mandatory from > 15-20 years. > > I would like to hear from you all what's the situation there, if they are > diffused, you use them, are considered (toghether with earthing) enough to > avoid danger situations. > > Ciao > Riccardo Romagnoli In the US, they are called GFI (ground fault interrupt) breakers. Most building codes now require that they be installed in "Wet" areas during new construction. Typically they are found in bathrooms, kitchens, garages, and outdoor recepticles. Generally, they are NOT required in other areas and few people install them anywhere other than the required places. Normally the current flow is through one leg of the "Main" and the "Neutral". NOTE: The neutral is not the same as ground but the electrical potential is usually very close. In normal operation, there is NO current flow between the appliance and the earth "Ground". If something (your body) makes a connection between one of the legs and the "Earth Ground", the device senses the current and trips the curcuit breaker. I'm sure these things have saved thousands of lives... Steve Robertson From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Feb 24 18:49:17 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Computers on AM Radio... In-Reply-To: <36D49636.467C10E4@hotoffice.com> References: <199902250033.BAA03544@beta.queen.it> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990224194917.00994da0@mail.30below.com> I have a question... Has anyone had their computer "speak" over the radio before? I have a local (small-town) live radio talk show on one of the local AM stations here (Upper Peninsula, Michigan, USA)... and I had my CoCo3 set up with it's speech-sound pak and actually had it plumbed in and talking over the air! (I called it my "co-host")... I have a lot of Canadian listeners, so this was an "international incident..." ;-) Even if someone has done it before, doesn't this now make me one of the "elite" computer super-gurus, and others should pay homage to me by just sending me their Altairs and Imsais for free??? ;-) Gaak... I'd rather have a Vax or PDP, anyway... not that I'll see one of those anytime soon... :-( Anywho, just wondered if anyone else has done it... I've *never* been first on this list yet. ;-) Take care, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 24 20:33:32 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! In-Reply-To: <80256722.00602443.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990224203332.3abf9df2@intellistar.net> At 05:22 PM 2/24/99 +0000, Philip wrote: > > >Rick, you wonderful person! I wonder what this does on the 4052... Something >to try when I get home tonight, perhaps. > >Joe, what was it you were saying about already having picked Rick's brains? > Philip, You need to read the messages more closely. I was the one that found the EXEC command and posted it here. And yes I had already talked to Rick about them but he couldn't remember the command or anything about it. I told you about that conversation. It wasn't till I posted the message about the EXEC command and Rick read it that it stuck a chord and he remembered the codes to use with it. Joe From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 19:01:55 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old man forsale! (fwd) Message-ID: This fits the charter of being a "classic computer" I suppose. I wonder if he'll fetch more than an Altair? --- Title of item: 21 year old man forsale! Seller: mooxe@recorder.ca Starts: 02/23/99 08:46:50 PST Ends: 03/02/99 08:46:50 PST Price: Currently $5.50 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=70453747 Item Description: Hi!! My name is Andrew and I need a home! I'm 21 years old, 6'0 175 pounds. I have blue puppy dog eyes and unemployed!!! I have a great personality! Physically fit. My hobbies include staying up all night on IRC, and reading porno on the web and usenet! If you buy me you get a loving, cuddly sensitive young man! I come with the standard 10 year warranty and my own clothes to last me for 1 year! WHAT A DEAL EH? I come with many more hidden surprises, habits, hobbies and sexual desires! I can be anything and do anything you want! Buy me now cause supplies are limited tee-hee!! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Wed Feb 24 19:07:04 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: question about viruses In-Reply-To: <36CCC263.D3EA02CE@banet.net> References: <199902180243.AA25217@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902250107.MAA05422@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 20:46 18/02/99 -0500, Will Emerson wrote: > Do you remember a worm that some sysadmin (North, South Carolina or >someplace like >that?) turned loose on his systems, back around 89-90, and _forgot_ to >isolate his network from the general DECnet? I sure do.. Spent most of a >Sunday with _that_ _one_... Those good old LA100's spitting so many >SECURPAK alarms that they basically >brought many VAXclusters to their knees... Was this the DECnet "connectivity" worm. Run a DECnet task on the local node to discover all the neighbours, send this information back to the central system and then start this worm on all neighbour systems? My recollection was that this was Digital internal only. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From joe at barrera.org Wed Feb 24 19:09:46 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old manforsale! (fwd) References: Message-ID: <002c01be605b$8908fa70$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> Yet another useless eBay description, leaving out important details like... sexual orientation? From nfields at ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 24 19:13:33 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: 8 inch wang compatible disks... References: <3.0.1.16.19990224203332.3abf9df2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <36D4A3BD.C016CF6D@ix.netcom.com> I picked up some 8 inch disks today at a thrift shop, and they are labled Single Sided, Single Density, 32 track wang compatible. Were 8 inch disks normally 32 track? Or is this what made them Wang compatible? Noel From dogas at leading.net Wed Feb 24 19:10:15 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 Message-ID: <01be605b$9a45aae0$e7c962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey >> Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) BTW, the pinouts for the 2102 is 1-a6,2-a5, 3-r/w, 4-a1, 5-a2,6-a3,7-a4,8-a0,9-gnd,10-vcc,11-din,12-dout,13-ce,14-a9,15-a8,16-a7. So, what's the difference between the 2102 and 1101? 512 bits??? - Mike, dogas@leading.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 16:44:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: here's the list . . . In-Reply-To: <19990224195020508.AAA190@fuj03> from "Richard Erlacher" at Feb 24, 99 12:51:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1754 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/a2b2c438/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 16:48:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 24, 99 12:56:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 934 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/bad44695/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 24 16:53:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 24, 99 01:30:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 662 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/4f4fca21/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Feb 24 19:42:07 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old manforsale! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <002c01be605b$8908fa70$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990224204207.009809c0@mail.30below.com> Once upon a midnight dreary, Joseph S. Barrera III had spoken clearly: >Yet another useless eBay description, leaving out important details like... >sexual orientation? From jlwest at tseinc.com Wed Feb 24 19:32:53 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: 21mx system I bought... Message-ID: <002a01be605e$c4f167e0$0101a8c0@jay> Ok folks - since everyone and their brother is asking.... Yes, I *DID* get a 21mx system from Berman today. However, that is not the 21mx system I was referring to in my post. I got two 21mx systems today, both from california (one from berman), but from different places there. BTW - does anyone have HP 21mx M series cpus(2105a, 2108a, 2112a)? I'd be willing to trade 21mx E series cpu's for them. The E series I have are faster than the M's, and completely compatible (except for timing dependent program loops due to the faster speed). The software I want to run will run better on the M's - so... Let me know! Jay West From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 24 19:51:28 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: VMS Hobbist (was: Re: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk)) In-Reply-To: <199902250002.AA10691@world.std.com> Message-ID: >< > >The hobbiest licensse supports version of VMS from 5.4 through 6.1. It may >not however support things like UCX. The current only supports VAX VMS 5.4-6.1 period, no layered products. However V2 of the hobbist program is supposed to be announced at http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ on the 1st of March. It will apparently cover VAX, Alpha and some layered products. Yes, I'm bouncing off the walls waiting to find out which ones. I've included the latest info I've found on the newsgroup (yes, I want to share the pain of waiting). Sounds like those of you that aren't DECUS members will want to join up, last I checked you could still join for free (for all that goes, guess I'd better make sure my membership is up to date). Not quite sure how to interpret the first message below, but I hope all that stuff is on the new Hobbiest program! I want to build a cluster :^) Zane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:10:47 comp.os.vms Thread 71 of 122 Lines 35 Re: hobbyist vms RespNo 3 of 6 Phillip Helbig at University of Manchester, NRAL Newsgroups: comp.os.vms In article <36D33E9E.15A11514@Montagar.com>, "David L. Cathey" writes: > It's not the 1st of March yet. However, I think I have > corrected the DECUS link (thanks!). OK. I just got an email from a very reliable source who sent me the March 1999 longwords. Hobbyist license for VAX and ALPHA (presumably any version, as has been the case with VAX for a while now) and, get this, LAYERED PRODUCTS. That's stuff like the best compilers in the world. VAXset (DECset?), UCX, more than one user, clustering,... Didn't see Fortran in the list; SURELY an oversight as C, Cobol, BASIC are all there. So, VMS is being marketed. We have much more than a `compiler package' in the layered products. Hard- and software costs have been comparable to unix for a while now. (Certainly that's not the reason some folks don't run VMS (i.e. they wouldn't run it even if it were cheaper).) The VMSstation will be appearing soon. Who would have thought this a year ago? Rejoice! Rejoice! Rejoice! -- Phillip Helbig Email ......... p.helbig@jb.man.ac.uk Nuffield Radio Astronomy Laboratories Tel. ... +44 1477 571 321 (ext. 2635) Jodrell Bank Fax ................ +44 1477 571 618 Macclesfield Telex ................ 36149 JODREL G UK-Cheshire SK11 9DL Web ... http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~pjh/ My opinions are not necessarily those of NRAL or the University of Manchester. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:25:02 comp.os.vms Thread 71 of 122 Lines 23 Re: hobbyist vms RespNo 4 of 6 David L. Cathey at Montagar Software Concepts Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Phillip Helbig wrote: > > In article <36D33E9E.15A11514@Montagar.com>, "David L. Cathey" > writes: > > > It's not the 1st of March yet. However, I think I have > > corrected the DECUS link (thanks!). > > OK. I just got an email from a very reliable source who sent me the > March 1999 longwords. Hey! We haven't even mailed out the March issue yet! We'll be running Hobbyist V2.0 similar to how we've done the previous version, except we will be E-mailing a command file of PAK's instead of displaying a "PAK Page" for you to print. And, of course, you will need to be a registered DECUS member. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - David L. Cathey |Inet: davidc@montagar.com Montagar Software Concepts |Fone: (972)-578-5036 P. O. Box 260772, Plano, TX 75026 |http://www.montagar.com Postmaster, Hostmaster, Webmaster |http://www.whiteice.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 19:46:31 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old manforsale! (fwd) In-Reply-To: <002c01be605b$8908fa70$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > Yet another useless eBay description, leaving out important details like... > sexual orientation? What does it matter? If you buy him, he's yours, and he has to perform whatever acts you demand of him. :-o Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 24 19:51:25 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: So. Cal. suplus/salvage, was Re: attention MITS fiends . . .(NOW PACKING AND SHIPPING) References: <005c01be6050$bbbc90e0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <36D4AC9D.A3DF4101@rain.org> Jay West wrote: > > Finally - I'm going to be in Irvine, CA (flying into LAX though) march > 3,4,5, and a bit on saturday the 6th. Two questions - 1) Can anyone direct > me to any favorite surplus/salvage stores in the area I can scavenge in my > spare time while I'm out there? and 2) If anyone on this list is in the > Irvine area, I'd be happy to buy ya a cup of coffee and exchange stories > about when computers were real computers :) Too bad you can't make it out for the TRW swap meet this weekend. Since you will be in Irvine, take a look on Edinger in Santa Ana at the ACP SuperStore. When I was down there a couple of months ago, they had several classic computers on display (not for sale.) I don't know all the good spots down that way, but C&H in Pasadena comes to mind. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 19:55:57 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > The only major difference between the origina Lisa power supply and the > > Lisa 2 supply is the amount of Amperage produced. The original P/S for > ^^^^^^^^ > Where does this term come from? I've always called it 'current' (as have > all the electrical engineers I have ever met)... I pulled it out of my ass to disturb your engineering frailties. (Sorry, I meant current...I'm just a software weenie). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 19:59:07 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > I have a very minimal data sheet on the 8008 (and I think somebody else > has already mentioned a more complete one), but I don have the 1101A RAM > data sheet. > > Here's some information. It's a 256*1 bit PMOS static RAM, access time > 850ns or better. It runs off +5V and -9V (as usual for PMOS). The pinout > is : <...> Thanks! > Is there any other information you need? Well, if you have something typed up on the 8008 I'd appreciate that. I'll wait for the "somebody else" to pipe up with the more complete sheet. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From thompson at athenet.net Wed Feb 24 19:55:38 1999 From: thompson at athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: <199902250002.AA10691@world.std.com> Message-ID: The DECUS bootable CD provides OpenVMS/VAX 6.1, and all the literature points to V6.1 being the highest supported, but as my MV3100 m76 can attest that the license appears to work on higher versions of VMS if one can obtain the media. I have tried V6.2 and V7.1. I no longer have problems with network logins via LAT, which was one of the areas in which license errors came up previously. Interestingly, I could have numerous "users" logged in via CMU-IP and never generate an error even without the DECUS license. Paul On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > The hobbiest licensse supports version of VMS from 5.4 through 6.1. It may > not however support things like UCX. > > Allison > > From ss at allegro.com Wed Feb 24 20:03:46 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Avail: 50-pin cables/rack-panel/connectors for unknown system Message-ID: <199902250203.SAA79143@bart.allegro.com> Hi, (hoping this version makes it past the classiccmp filter :) Free to any home: (pick up in Cupertino, or pay shipping) two 5 meter (?) cables, with female 50 pin AMP connectors on both ends (three rows of holes: 17, 16, 17). The cables have tags reading: 422-0018-018 REV C RMH one 19" panel (about 1.5" high) with two male 60 pin connectors (matching the ones on the cables). These two connectors are wired to two long ribbon cables (3 meters?) that both end in 50 pin card connectors of some kind. The male connectors on the panel are labelled J1A and J1B. These were bundled into a surplus purchase, and have absolutely no connection with the computer I got! thanks, Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 24 20:03:55 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Well, if you have something typed up on the 8008 I'd appreciate that. > I'll wait for the "somebody else" to pipe up with the more complete sheet. OK, I'll scan my 8008 docs on Sunday instead of helping you with grunt work :-) -- Doug From cfandt at netsync.net Wed Feb 24 19:26:37 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <199902250033.BAA03544@beta.queen.it> Message-ID: <4.1.19990224200940.009b8150@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:33 AM 2/25/99 +0100, RICCARDO said something like: >I'm following the discussion around the danger of household circuits: > >>> I have worked on various appliances ,electrical devices and/or wiring >>> most of my life, close to 50 years, and I have been "bitten" on occasion. >>> Of course, except for stoves and dryers, the voltage here is 110 v. I >>can >>> understand the respect given to 220v.(3wire) and have never worked on >>> anything at that voltage without shutting down the circuit. I have also >>been >>> very cautious about working on anything in damp conditions like in a >>> washroom or wet basement. > >Travelling in some other EU countryes, I've noticed that >few household installations have "SAFETY DIFFERENTIAL-CURRENT BREAKERS" >(here in Italy are called "Salva-vita=Life-saver), and also from these Sounds like what we (in North America) refer to GFCI or Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. >messages I learn that 220v are used also in the US (surprise) for heavy >applications, but again nobody from both side of the ocean refers to the >presence, safetiness, of these devices that here are used and mandatory from >15-20 years. > >I would like to hear from you all what's the situation there, if they are >diffused, you use them, are considered (toghether with earthing) enough to >avoid danger situations. Diffused? Don't quite know what you mean by that word here. Anyway, in new construction or in remodeling/repairs to bathrooms, kitchens, laundry rooms, outdoor receptacles, wet areas, garages, etc. the National Electrical Code requires GFCI devices be used to protect users of those circuits. I can't recall exactly but it has been at least 20 years, I believe, since this rule went into effect. If there is more than a few milliamperes of current flow between either hot or neutral and earth, then the GFCI device breaks the circuit. This is likely what you refer to as Salva-vita. GFCI's are a most excellent idea for us to use if we have our workshop for working on our computers in a basement or garage (concrete floors). For that matter, it would be a good idea to have GFCI outlets for any electrical equipment we work on anywhere. I have them in my attic where I have a small area to work on my small machines. And I most certainly have them installed in my main lab in the basement. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 24 21:53:39 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting book was Re: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990224215339.305faa5e@intellistar.net> At 01:30 PM 2/24/99 -0800, Sam wrote: > >Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I >need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also >be cool. Sam, I have one. I was at a library trift store and found a neat book, Microcomputers and Microproceesors: Hardware, Software and Applications by John Hilburn and Paul Julich, 1976. It has the instructions for the 4004, 4040, 8008, 8080, National IMP, Rockwell PPS_4, RCA COSMAC and a lot of others. I'll loan you the book if you'll send it back soon. Joe > >Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > > From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Wed Feb 24 20:23:08 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 24, 99 05:46:31 pm Message-ID: <199902250223.SAA09456@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 660 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990224/7368f299/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 24 20:31:09 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: attention MITS fiends . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > I can relate to your problem, as can most others. Its a fine line between > preserve, hoard, and a rubber tongue depressor and electric shocks until > collecting junk is less appealing (the latter what I think my wife has in > mind for me). I don't see what her gripe is, I move stuff off the washing > machine if she really needs to use it. There's the key. Offer to _do the laundry_. The washing and drying part anyway, folding is a concept I've never mastered. The laundry process requires little interaction. It lets me hack at the other side of the basement for hours at a time with no other demands by La Esposa -- I just have to cross the room every half hour or so (and I need to change positions once in a while anyway) to spend a minute dealing with a state change. Hey, volunteering to do the laundry builds relationship karma points that no amount of time being drafted into dealing with dishes and catboxes approaches. It's worked for me for many years. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 24 20:24:32 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old man forsale! (fwd) In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:01:55 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19990225022432.5972.qmail@brouhaha.com> > This fits the charter of being a "classic computer" I suppose. I'm not so sure. Isn't that make and model still in production? If it had been end-of-life'd I think I would have heard about it. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 24 22:43:58 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Numerix VAX manuals Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990224224358.2edf8332@intellistar.net> I picked up a BIG load of manuals today. A lot of them are manuals for the software to accompany the Numerix MARS-432 Array Processor that (I *think*) was used in the VAX 11/760. The books are dated 1984. Numerix is Numerix Corporation located in Newton, Mass. Is anyone familar with this stuff? Anyone need the manuals? Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 24 21:16:39 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 Message-ID: <199902250316.AA19574@world.std.com> wrote: <> The only place I've seen the term "slushware" used is on the DECmate boxe <> AFAIK, its use there matches your use here. < I might come to regret this.... ;} I will be in the Seattle, WA area the weekend of the 13th. I will be inflicting myself on the kind hospitality of Mr. Bruce Lane, and visiting the Puyallup Swap Meet. I am flying there in a plane and returning in a 12-foot truck, which I think will only be partially loaded. So.... If anyone has something truck-able in the Seattle area to be delivered into the Los Angeles area.. p'raps we can work something out. The governing parameters are: it fits in the truck, it gets on the truck Saturday the 13th afternoon or early evening, and it gets picked up in LA at my house, or can be easily transfered to my (smaller) pickup truck and delivered to you in the LA region for a suitable bribe. I am driving straight through Sunday, so no intermediate stops are planned between There and Here. Also: items of interest to classiccmpers only, please. This was inspired by Jay West's idea of forming a network of folks to 'stagecoach' jun^H^H^H^H equipment accross the country. Let me know via private e-mail. Cheers John From red at bears.org Wed Feb 24 21:52:15 1999 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Packing and Shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, John Lawson wrote: > be inflicting myself on the kind hospitality of Mr. Bruce Lane, and > visiting the Puyallup Swap Meet. I am flying there in a plane and > returning in a 12-foot truck, which I think will only be partially > loaded. So.... Details of the Puyallup Swap Meet? Maybe I should go. (: Maybe we should arrange some sort of get-together. I would be interested, at any rate. ok r. From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 24 22:01:14 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was In-Reply-To: <36D49636.467C10E4@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Steve Robertson wrote: > "Earth Ground", the device senses the current and trips the curcuit > breaker. > > I'm sure these things have saved thousands of lives... Dozens, at least. I doubt that a thousand people have died of accidental electrocution since Franklin flew his kite. And there haven't been that many die of intentional electrocution either, despite what you might think from movies about Death Row. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed Feb 24 21:52:49 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. Message-ID: A friend of mine from another (algorithmically-related) List has the following PDP8 Stuff for y'alls consideration: A Front Panel A "single-card core plane" A Power supply. A "complete set" of software on DEC paper tape in DEC trays. Please write to : Don Merz 71333.144@compuserve.com for more info. I have done much business with Don and have found him to be honest and fair. He would rather a true PDP8 Collector have a chance at this, than list it on e-bay. Drop him a line. Cheerz John PS: If 'RYRYRYRYRYRYRY....' means anything to you... that is the kind of gear I've bought from him. :) From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 22:00:06 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Packing and Shipping In-Reply-To: from "R. Stricklin" at Feb 24, 99 10:52:15 pm Message-ID: <199902250400.UAA18973@saul5.u.washington.edu> > Details of the Puyallup Swap Meet? > > Maybe I should go. (: > > Maybe we should arrange some sort of get-together. I would be interested, > at any rate. Please count me in! I'm posting to the list in case there are any other Seattle people. -- Derek From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 24 22:10:32 1999 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward D. Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70453747: 21 year old man forsale! (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, 175 lbs, less about half after cleaning and dressing, at say $1.79/lb, call it something under $200. His parents have made a bad investment. On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > This fits the charter of being a "classic computer" I suppose. I wonder > if he'll fetch more than an Altair? > Item Description: > Hi!! My name is Andrew and I need a home! I'm 21 years old, 6'0 > 175 pounds. I have blue puppy dog eyes and unemployed!!! I have a great > personality! Physically fit. My hobbies include staying up all night on > IRC, and reading porno on the web and usenet! If you buy me you get a > loving, cuddly sensitive young man! I come with the standard 10 year > warranty and my own clothes to last me for 1 year! WHAT A DEAL EH? I come > with many more hidden surprises, habits, hobbies and sexual desires! I can > be anything and do anything you want! Buy me now cause supplies are > limited tee-hee!! > > > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Always hasslin' the man. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 02/15/99] > > Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 24 22:01:49 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup swap details Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224200149.00959c10@mail.bluefeathertech.com> The Puyallup swap meet takes place the second Saturday of each year at the site of WA's annual Puyallup Fair (a livestock and amusement thing). Since it is sponsored and put on by one of the local ham radio clubs, it is not dedicated to computer hardware, though I have definitely seen 'classic' stuff show up there. It's primarily electronics: Communications (radio), along with test gear. I regret that we only have room at the house for a single guest (John), and that I have only one additional admission tag to cover him. Anyone else who wants to come, feel free, but you'll be on your own for lodging. The event actually starts Saturday the 13th at 09:00. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Feb 24 22:19:15 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990224201841.00a02370@mcmanis.com> At least a couple of us are already negotiating with him... --Chuck At 07:52 PM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: > A friend of mine from another (algorithmically-related) List has >the following PDP8 Stuff for y'alls consideration: From jpl15 at netcom.com Wed Feb 24 22:13:16 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup Meet Message-ID: I will be happy to partake in a get-together of classiccmpers while there. Count me in. Also: SoCal TRW reminder... this weekend, the 27th Saturday. Another get-together will be help afterward. See previous posting for details or e-mail me privately. Cheers John From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Feb 24 22:11:02 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup swap details In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990224200149.00959c10@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > The Puyallup swap meet takes place the second Saturday of each > year at the site of WA's annual Puyallup Fair (a livestock and amusement > thing). Since it is sponsored and put on by one of the local ham radio > clubs, it is not dedicated to computer hardware, though I have > definitely seen 'classic' stuff show up there. Is this an indoor event? It was raining in Seatle when I was there a coupla days ago. -- Doug From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Feb 24 22:28:08 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup swap details In-Reply-To: (message from Doug on Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:11:02 -0500 (EST)) References: Message-ID: <19990225042808.6789.qmail@brouhaha.com> Doug wrote: > It was raining in Seatle when I was there a coupla days ago. In other words, you're saying that it was an entirely typical day in Seattle? From ddameron at earthlink.net Wed Feb 24 20:25:57 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Hi Sam and all, At 01:30 PM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone have the data sheets for the 1101 RAM and the Intel 8008? I >need both. In the case of the 8008, an instruction set listing would also >be cool. I have both the AMD and Intel data sheets for the 1101(A). They also may be in a early (~1976) Intel data catalog. For the 8008, the best is the mcs8 microcomputer set users manual. Someone on the list just found one in the last week or 2. I probably have a "condensed" data sheet from a Intel catalog as well. The mcs8 book is about 100 pages. The instruction set would be only 4 pages or so. I might have some data from the Canadian company that second sourced the 8008?? > >Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) A few years ago I searched all over the place, not only Halted, James, ACP, and any other advertisers in early Byte magagines that might still exist, but the "obsolete ic" house resellers too. Remember the ads for "8008 +8 2102's"? I only found about 3 "tubes", but may not ever use them as wire wrapping 8 chips give only 256 bytes. How many do you want? Can't you find this stuff by the barrel and data sheets by the ream there in Si valley :-)? ..Like a west coast "Poly Pac's". No I don't expect to find a Mark 8 or Scelbi, so am moving slowly to building a 8008 system. I did finally find a copy of "Microcomputer Design" by Martin by interlibrary loan :). Abebooks, etc never found it. It is loaded with 8008 stuff with things like all timing, a 9 chip 8008 system, etc. They also sold the "Mike" series of microcomputer boards, but I have never seen one except pictures in early Byte's. I also tried to find Martin or his company (In Illinois), but no luck. By the way, searching, I found a rumor that Intel was going to come out with a support chip for all the control logic for the 8008. I have seen no indication they did, just went on to the 8080. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > -Dave From dastar at ncal.verio.com Wed Feb 24 23:03:46 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > I have both the AMD and Intel data sheets for the 1101(A). They also may be > in a early (~1976) Intel data catalog. Cool. Is it a couple pages I can convince you to photocopy and mail out for a future favor? > For the 8008, the best is the mcs8 microcomputer set users manual. Someone > on the list just found one in the last week or 2. I probably have a > "condensed" data sheet from a Intel catalog as well. The mcs8 book is about > 100 pages. > The instruction set would be only 4 pages or so. I might have some data > from the Canadian company that second sourced the 8008?? I just need the pinouts, voltage levels and instruction set. > >Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) > > A few years ago I searched all over the place, not only Halted, James, ACP, > and any other advertisers in early Byte magagines that might still exist, > but the "obsolete ic" house resellers too. Remember the ads for "8008 +8 > 2102's"? I only found about 3 "tubes", but may not ever use them as wire > wrapping 8 chips give only 256 bytes. How many do you want? > > Can't you find this stuff by the barrel and data sheets by the ream there > in Si valley :-)? ..Like a west coast "Poly Pac's". Probably at one of these surplus shops somewhere. I've just never looked before (never had a need until now). Based on some of the exotic things I've found over the years, I don't doubt there's at least one of everything laying around this great Valley somewhere (I know there's an IBM 360 stashed in someone's garage waiting to be liberated). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 24 23:09:11 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup swap details In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990224200149.00959c10@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: > The Puyallup swap meet takes place the second Saturday of each year >at the >site of WA's annual Puyallup Fair (a livestock and amusement thing). Since Would this be near Everett? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Feb 24 23:32:41 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup swap details References: Message-ID: <36D4E079.B352BEFD@halcyon.com> Puyallup is nearer to Tacoma, just to the east. It has been raining lots here. 36" since last September. The annual average is 39" in Seattle. Some of the ski areas have had to close because there is too much snow. And the Cascade passes have been closed a lot for avalanche control. Puyallup should be safe, except it sometimes floods near there. And lots of rain very often means flooding out of I-5 near Chehalis between Olympia and Portland. And a 20 ton machine fell off a truck and almost took out the Tacoma narrows bridge (Galloping Gerty). Paxton's warehouse is probably safer, Zane. "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > The Puyallup swap meet takes place the second Saturday of each year > >at the > >site of WA's annual Puyallup Fair (a livestock and amusement thing). Since > > Would this be near Everett? > From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 24 23:36:35 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, John Lawson wrote: > PS: If 'RYRYRYRYRYRYRY....' means anything to you... that is the > kind of gear I've bought from him. :) Sounds like you battery is almost dead 8=^} - don From joe at barrera.org Wed Feb 24 23:40:29 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:23 2005 Subject: Puyallup swap details References: <36D4E079.B352BEFD@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <017701be6081$5bfda5f0$2801010a@joebargx1> > And a 20 ton machine fell off a truck and almost took out the > Tacoma narrows bridge (Galloping Gerty). Well, jeez, it's about time they built another new bridge there. - Joe From edick at idcomm.com Wed Feb 24 23:46:46 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete Message-ID: <19990225054510617.AAA183@fuj03> Keep in mind that the 820 is from Xerox and the 802/803/806 . . . are from Televideo. The TVI stuff is MUCH more sophisticated in design and packaging, not to mention capabilities. The TVI models used the 1793 and 5.25" DSDD while the XEROX used the 1771 with 8" SSSD . . . Dick ---------- > From: Don Maslin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Xerox 820 family almost complete > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 1:38 PM > > On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > > > At 10:45 PM 2/23/99 -0800, George wrote: > > > > >Is there still a source for 5.25 inch CP/M for the Xerox 820? > > > > > > > Will the CPM for the 803 or one of the other models work on the 820? > > Does anyone know what the capability is between the various Televiedo models? > > No, and for a variety of reasons, Joe. First. the 820 can only read single > density disks and the TeleVideo disks are all double density. Even the > DD 820-II disk uses a single density first track, so it would choke too. > Second, the Xerox 820 disks read all of the first side before even > venturing into the second side, whereas, the TeleVideo machines read the > tracks on both sides of the disk before moving the heads to the nexr > track. Third, there are other format differences also. Different number > of sectors per track, different skew, ... > > As to the Televideo disks, most of the machines can read/write another > models disks. However, there is much less commonality between CP/M > operating systems used. A few will interchange, others will not. > > - don > From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 24 23:53:53 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: 8 inch wang compatible disks... In-Reply-To: <36D4A3BD.C016CF6D@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > I picked up some 8 inch disks today at a thrift shop, and they are labled Single > Sided, Single Density, 32 track wang compatible. Were 8 inch disks normally 32 > track? Or is this what made them Wang compatible? I think you will find that they are 32 hard sector disks, Noel. Look through the index window as you slowly rotate the flexible disk within its jacket and you should see - if you care to count - 33 holes. 32 will be evenly spaced to mark sector beginning, while one will be half way between two of those to indicate that the sector 0 start is next up. - don From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 25 00:07:01 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Puyallup event Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990224220701.00942970@mail.bluefeathertech.com> To answer earlier questions... Yes, this is an indoor event. Two floors worth. I've not been to TRW in years, but I have attended Bay Area swap meets such as the Livermore and Foothill events. For those that have done the same, I would guess the size of the Puyallup event as about half again as big as Livermore (conservative). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rickb at pail.enginet.com Thu Feb 25 00:24:04 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 Message-ID: <003f01be6087$70f97280$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> I was feeling nostalgic tonight, so I went out to the loft in the shop and dug around and found an old TI Silent 700 portable terminal that I picked up somewhere along the way. It needed a little bit of work...the paper-advance stepper had seized up, but a little TLC there got it happy again, and the solenoid that pulls the thermal printhead away from the paper when the paper advances was way out of adjustment. After tinkering with it for a while, I powered it up, and it seems to work great. The machine is a "Model 745 Portable" with built-in acoustic coupler cups at the rear of the machine. It works at 300 or 110 baud. I actually dug out an old Western Electric phone (most of the new telephones today have handsets that won't fit into an acoustic coupler cup) and dialed up my Sun Unix system (which has a couple of 28.8 modems hanging off it), and stuffed the phone handset into the cups, and viola... a (upper case only) LOGIN: prompt! Heck, there was even a termcap for it! The terminal works great...I loaded up the PDP-11 simulator, and loaded the image for RT-11, and played around for a while. It brought back some memories, no doubt! The acoustic coupler worked fantastic...no glitches, except when the dog barked at a noise outside...and I got a few @'s printed. The first question for y'all is this: On the rear panel of the machine is a DB-15 male connector...my assumption this is for hooking up a (RS232 or current-loop) 'direct connection' to the terminal. I don't have any documentation for the machine, and am wondering if anyone out there might know the pinout for this connector. The next question is: Anyone know where I could find the thermal paper for this thing? I've got a good sized roll of it in the machine, and a spare roll still in the wrapper, but my guess is that as time goes on, it's only going to become more and more difficult to find. Anyone know if thermal FAX machine paper in roll form would work? Happy retrocomputing, Rick Bensene The Old Calculators Web Pages http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510 From go at ao.com Thu Feb 25 00:49:50 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 In-Reply-To: <003f01be6087$70f97280$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990224224541.032e6960@office.ao.com> At 10:24 PM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: >I was feeling nostalgic tonight, so I went out to the loft in the shop >and dug around and found an old TI Silent 700 portable terminal that I >picked up somewhere along the way. > >It needed a little bit of work...the paper-advance stepper had seized >up, but a little TLC there got it happy again, and the solenoid that >pulls the thermal printhead away from the paper when the paper advances >was way out of adjustment. After tinkering with it for a while, I >powered it up, and it seems to work great. > >The machine is a "Model 745 Portable" with built-in acoustic coupler >cups at the rear of the machine. It works at 300 or 110 baud. Wonderful little units. I have two - one with RS232 only connections and one that has an RJ-11 jack for direct connection. One has a defected print head - missing one of the dots (I've looked at it under a microscope and it looks like it was blown explosively - probably a bad driver - which I haven't fixed. > ..snip > >The next question is: Anyone know where I could find the thermal paper for >this >thing? I've got a good sized roll of it in the machine, and a spare roll >still >in the wrapper, but my guess is that as time goes on, it's only going to >become >more and more difficult to find. Anyone know if thermal FAX machine paper >in >roll form would work? I use ordinary fax thermal paper in mine - buy it six rolls at a time at Costco. Probably prints a little "light" owing to the ligher weight of the paper from that supplied by TI (I have ONE genuine roll from TI which I am keeping for posterity...) But the printing is quite readable. > >Happy retrocomputing, > >Rick Bensene >The Old Calculators Web Pages >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510 Gary From nfields at ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 25 00:59:51 1999 From: nfields at ix.netcom.com (Noel Fields) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: 8 inch wang compatible disks... References: Message-ID: <36D4F4E7.9F140A1E@ix.netcom.com> Ok :) But is hard sector disks, the normal for 8 inch disks? Or is this a "wang" thang (pun intended!) :) Noel Don Maslin wrote: > On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > > > I picked up some 8 inch disks today at a thrift shop, and they are labled Single > > Sided, Single Density, 32 track wang compatible. Were 8 inch disks normally 32 > > track? Or is this what made them Wang compatible? > > I think you will find that they are 32 hard sector disks, Noel. Look > through the index window as you slowly rotate the flexible disk within > its jacket and you should see - if you care to count - 33 holes. 32 will > be evenly spaced to mark sector beginning, while one will be half way > between two of those to indicate that the sector 0 start is next up. > > - don > From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 25 01:30:11 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 References: <003f01be6087$70f97280$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Message-ID: <36D4FC03.57C0B156@rain.org> Rick Bensene wrote: > > The machine is a "Model 745 Portable" with built-in acoustic coupler > cups at the rear of the machine. It works at 300 or 110 baud. > The first question for y'all is this: On the rear panel of the machine is > a DB-15 male connector...my assumption this is for hooking up a (RS232 or > current-loop) 'direct connection' to the terminal. I don't have any > documentation > for the machine, and am wondering if anyone out there might know the pinout > for this connector. According to the tech manual, it sounds like the port is the EIA/Auxiliary Coupler and the cable has one 15 pin connector attaching to the 745, and two other cables. (Keyboard/Printer EIA Interface) P1-9 ..... P2-1 Protective Ground P1-13 ..... P2-2 Transmit Data P1-12 ..... P2-3 Receive Data P1-10 ..... P2-4 +12v to RTS P1-1 ..... P2-7 Signal ground P1-11 ..... P2-8 Data Carrier Detect P1-15 ..... P2-20 Data Terminal Ready (Acoustic Coupler EIA Interface) P1-8 ..... P3-3 Receive Data P1-3 ..... P3-2 Transmit Data P1-1 ..... P3-7 Signal Ground P1-2 ..... P3-8 Carrier Detect P1-9 ..... P3-1 Protective Ground P1-6 ..... P3-5 Clear to Send P1-7 ..... P3-6 Data Set Ready Hope this helps. From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Thu Feb 25 01:52:38 1999 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Vax! (and epilogue on teledisk) In-Reply-To: References: <199902250002.AA10691@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902250752.SAA08588@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 19:55 24/02/99 -0600, Paul Thompson wrote: > > Interestingly, I >could have numerous "users" logged in via CMU-IP and never generate an >error even without the DECUS license. This is because the user licence check is implemented in LOGINOUT.EXE which is not executed if you telnet into CMU TCP/IP. Of course, you're breaking your (in this case non-existent :-) licensing agreement..... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green" From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu Feb 25 02:14:58 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM 1130? From PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk Thu Feb 25 09:36:42 1999 From: PeksaDO at cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 sidecar Message-ID: <24E09F727A@MAINCF1S.CF.AC.UK> As the Amiga 1000 has been brought up .... Sometime last year I acquired an Amiga 1000 (Built Feb 1986) and an Amiga 500 but only recently have I got arround to playing with them. The 1000 came with a sidecar unit and by now you should have guessed what I'm about to ask .... I've got the 1000, I've got the sidecar, I've got kickstart and workbench but I haven't got the software required to access the sidecar from the amiga. The sidecar has 448K of memory (256K on motherboard (with space for another 256K) plus 3x64K on a ISA card (with space for another 64K) and a hardcard (which hopefully has an amiga partition). Anyone out there have this software or know where I can get it from, Ta, Doug. From black at gco.apana.org.au Thu Feb 25 20:11:53 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment References: Message-ID: <36D602E7.E94E2C40@gco.apana.org.au> Tony Duell wrote: > > The only major difference between the origina Lisa power supply and the > > Lisa 2 supply is the amount of Amperage produced. The original P/S for > ^^^^^^^^ > Where does this term come from? I've always called it 'current' (as have > all the electrical engineers I have ever met)... > Pretty normal, it's the term we used when I was doing my electricians apprenticeship. cheers, Lance From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 25 08:37:46 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete In-Reply-To: <19990225054510617.AAA183@fuj03> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990225083746.3b5758d8@intellistar.net> Dick, At 10:46 PM 2/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >Keep in mind that the 820 is from Xerox and the 802/803/806 . . . are from >Televideo. Yeah, I realized that after Don posted his reply. I don't know what I was thinking of when I asked that question. Joe From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Feb 25 06:54:31 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? In-Reply-To: References: < <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990225074605.009b91a0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:14 AM 2/25/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM 1130? > Yes, there is. We were just talking about 1130's in the first week of Feb on the list here. John Zabolitzky told us there is a working 1130 at the IBM Museum in Sindelfingen, Germany. That's the only one anybody has mentioned here so far. There's a couple of other non-working machines. One just got pulled out of Cornell Univ. by one our list colleagues (dang! It was only two or three hours drive from me.) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From dogas at leading.net Thu Feb 25 07:05:20 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 Message-ID: <01be60bf$7facbe80$d1c962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Dave Dameron >For the 8008, the best is the mcs8 microcomputer set users manual. Someone >on the list just found one in the last week or 2. I probably have a That would be me... Let me know is some info is still needed - Mike: dogas@leading.net From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 25 07:17:54 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: General info on HP2000/1000 lineage.. Message-ID: <006c01be60c1$68906240$0101a8c0@jay> Someone just asked me... >Hmm...what is the difference between the 1000 M-series and the 21MX >M-series? Paint? I thought my response might be of interest to others, so here's the scoop... The oldest systems in the "1000" series are the M series. They consisted of the 21mx 2112a, 21mx 2108a, and the 21mx 2105a. Later HP introduced the E series with the new 21mxe 2113a and 21mxe 2109a boxes. The E series did not replace the M series though. Then there was a major revision to the power supplies used in the cpu which was indicated by the B version (21mx 2112a became 21mxe 2112b, 21mxa 2108a became 21mx 2108b, 21mxe 2113a went to 21mxe 2113b, and 21mxe 2109a went to 21mxe 2109b). The 21mx 2105a stayed 21mx 2105a though. Finally there was the introduction of the F series with the 1000F 2117f and the 1000F 2111f. When the F series was introduced, all the systems became known as 1000's model such and such, with different designations. So finally there was the HP1000 F series 2117F, the HP1000 F series 2111F, the 21mxe 2113b became the 1000E 2113e, the 21mxe 2109b became the 1000E 2109e, the 21mxe 2112b became 1000M 2112m, and the 21mx 2105a finally changed to 1000M 2105a. More to the point, most of the upgrades along the way in a given branch were related to the power supply, the addition of more instructions to the instruction set (most related to better memory management), and faster memory boards. The HP 2000 systems did not designate a particular cpu. HP2000 or access, 2000a, 2000b, 2000c, 2000c', 2000e, 2000F (option 200/205 or 210/215), and the third party (NON-HP) 2000G designated a particular combination of peripherals. The hp2000 family generally used the pre-M series 2114 or 2116 cpu's. Later the 2100A and 2100S cpu's were used. Finally, even though HP still used the 2100 cpu's, many customers switched over to the 21mx 2108 and 21mx 2112 from the M series because they were slightly faster and used the new semiconductor memory. Few did setup HP2000 on the E series because they were faster enough to introduce time dependent problems in the TSB code. Generally the HP2000 designation meant the system was running TSB (Timeshare BASIC) which is my particular target of collecting since it was the first computer system I ever learned. If the same hardware was running DOS/RTE, etc. is was called an HP 1000. Hope this helps! Jay West From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 25 07:53:07 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote: >Dozens, at least. I doubt that a thousand people have died of >accidental electrocution since Franklin flew his kite. And there >haven't been that many die of intentional electrocution either, >despite what you might think from movies about Death Row. Well, I don't know if I'm to believe the textbooks I'm given in school, but the ones on 'health' and 'safety' quote large numbers for american deaths due to electrocution. I don't remember how high, but over a dozen per year. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From arfonrg at texas.net Thu Feb 25 07:56:52 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? In-Reply-To: <006c01be60c1$68906240$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990225075652.00974bb0@texas.net> Anyone know of any HP1000/2000/3000 emulators (for a PC running Linux?) From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 25 08:00:24 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, I don't know if I'm to believe the textbooks I'm given in school, > but the ones on 'health' and 'safety' quote large numbers for american > deaths due to electrocution. I don't remember how high, but over a dozen > per year. In a country of 250+million a dozen is not a large number, nor would a thousand. Often the deaths are unnecessary and from foolish lack of care. A electic shock if you follow safety advice is unlikely to be deadly but due to the possibility care MUST allways be taken. I've been hit by some heavy power supplies over the years and though unpleasent (it HURTS!!!) the basic care I took kept me from far worse. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Thu Feb 25 08:30:02 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Xerox 820 family almost complete Message-ID: <19990225142816929.AAA163@fuj03> I only mentioned it because I was occasionally prone to mix them up myself. They had numerous things in common. They were both single-board types of approximately the same size, they both ran CP/M, they both used a Z-80 . . Dick ---------- > From: Joe > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Xerox 820 family almost complete > Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 1:37 AM > > Dick, > > At 10:46 PM 2/24/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Keep in mind that the 820 is from Xerox and the 802/803/806 . . . are from > >Televideo. > > Yeah, I realized that after Don posted his reply. I don't know what I > was thinking of when I asked that question. > > Joe From ddameron at earthlink.net Thu Feb 25 07:25:31 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990225072531.23bf5c54@earthlink.net> Hi Sam and all, At 09:03 PM 2/24/99 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > >> I have both the AMD and Intel data sheets for the 1101(A). They also may be >> in a early (~1976) Intel data catalog. > >Cool. Is it a couple pages I can convince you to photocopy and mail out >for a future favor? Yes, the Intel data sheet is 4 pages. > >> >Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) >> >> A few years ago I searched all over the place, not only Halted, James, ACP, >> and any other advertisers in early Byte magagines that might still exist, >> but the "obsolete ic" house resellers too. Remember the ads for "8008 +8 >> 2102's"? I only found about 3 "tubes", but may not ever use them as wire >> wrapping 8 chips give only 256 bytes. How many do you want? >> >> Can't you find this stuff by the barrel and data sheets by the ream there >> in Si valley :-)? ..Like a west coast "Poly Pac's". > >Probably at one of these surplus shops somewhere. I've just never looked >before (never had a need until now). Based on some of the exotic things >I've found over the years, I don't doubt there's at least one of >everything laying around this great Valley somewhere (I know there's an >IBM 360 stashed in someone's garage waiting to be liberated). I think I bought some 1101's at Alltronics in San Jose. Also, for those looking for replacements, the Mostek MK4007 seems functionally and pinout the same, although they call it a dynamic ram? -Dave > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Always hasslin' the man. > From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 25 10:10:51 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was References: Message-ID: <36D5760B.920B46AA@rain.org> Max Eskin wrote: > > Well, I don't know if I'm to believe the textbooks I'm given in school, > but the ones on 'health' and 'safety' quote large numbers for american ..............................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > deaths due to electrocution. I don't remember how high, but over a dozen .....................................................................^^^^^ > per year. Sorry Max, but combining "large numbers" and "dozen" is really funny, and I'm still smiling about it! From rickb at pail.enginet.com Thu Feb 25 10:31:37 1999 From: rickb at pail.enginet.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories In-Reply-To: <006c01be60c1$68906240$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <004001be60dc$50d28c80$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Jay West (in a wonderfully informative message about HP systems) wrote: > Generally the HP2000 designation meant the system was running TSB > (Timeshare > BASIC) which is my particular target of collecting since it was the first > computer system I ever learned. If the same hardware was running DOS/RTE, > etc. is was called an HP 1000. > So, does anyone out there know of, or have, any of the HP 2000 Timeshared BASIC systems *running*? This is what I learned on also. The county educational services district purchased an original HP 2000B TSB system. Over the years, it was upgraded to a C, then C', then E, F, and finally ACCESS. The last I know of the system being in service was in the early 1980's. I've tried to track down what happened to it, but every lead has resulted in a dead end. I was able to visit the 'computer center' where the machine was kept (more on this in the story below). It was a little hole-in-the-wall building about 5 miles from my house. I think that it was running in the 2000C configuration when I saw it. It used dual CPU's (don't remember which ones). According to the operator, one CPU handled the I/O stuff (the system had, as I recall, 32 ports, most connected to Bell 103 modems), and the other 'ran' the BASIC environment. The system had a washing-machine sized disk drive with removable multi-platter disk packs. There was also a rack/cabinet about the same size as the rack that the two CPU's were in that contained a fast drum memory that was used for swapping store. Does anyone know if HP still can make available the TSB code? It would be TOTALLY amazing to get ahold of it, write and emulator for the CPU and associated hardware on something like a PII 450 running Linux, and *run* TSB again. It would be a big project, but chances of finding the real mccoy seem pretty unlikely nowadays. Here's a recollection for y'all on the 2000C Timeshared BASIC system. One day I was reading the TSB manual (wish I still had it, but I think it ended up coming un-bound because I used it so much, and I think it got tossed away years ago when I was moving) in an effort to learn any new tidbits of information. On the page for the "NAM" command, which was used to attach a name to the current program in working storage, I noted that it said to NEVER name a program with a single comma; i.e. NAM-, I wondered why this would be. So, I wandered into the terminal room at our high school, and dialed up the machine (I still remember the phone number!) and logged in. I typed in a little program, and typed NAM-, and pressed RETURN. A linefeed popped back at me. I thought..."well, that was exciting". So, I typed LIS and there was my little program as expected. I then did a CATLIST to dump out my user directory. The CATLIST came back empty. This was startling, as I *thought* I had a whole bunch of stuff in my directory. I then typed the command that would tell you how much (I think it was TIME) connect time you'd used this session, and how much of your monthly time quota you had left. The command came back with really weird answers...and, it came back with different numbers each time I ran the command. This was VERY strange. So, I logged off, and re-logged back in, and didn't type NAM-, and did a CATLIST. There was all my stuff. I typed in NAM-, then did a CATLIST... and all my stuff was gone. I then thought...I wonder if the NAM-, magically transports you to a different file area. So, I typed up a little program, gave it a name with the NAM- command (which seemed to take, and not affect 'where' I was), and SAVed it. I did a CATLIST. There it was. The interesting thing was that the CATLIST (which I hadn't really noticed before) said that I had some tremendous amount of storage blocks remaining. Upon noticing this, I thought I'd try CREating a big file, just to see how much space I really had available to me. I issued a command to create a 1000 block file..which was a pretty good-sized file, as I remember. I typed in the command, and pressed RETURN. There were three other TTY's in our computer lab, and all were occupied by other students at the time. When I pushed RETURN, all the other TTY's quit printing for a second or two...just like the machine had crashed (which happened from time to time), but as soon as my terminal printed it's acknowledging linefeed, they started right back up where they left off. Hmmmm... So, how about a 10000 block file? Well, that took the system a while to create...and everyone else was 'dead' during that time...no character echo, output 'froze' at the point where I pressed RETURN on my terminal. I did a CATLIST...and sure enough, there was my little program, my 1000 block file, and my 10000 block file. I did a KILL on my 10000 block file, and that took a bit, and everyone else again froze during the KILL operation. Too weird. I left it alone for then, and called a friend that night that went to another school that used the same system, and told him to make sure that he was logged on at 11AM the next morning, and observe. At 11AM the next morning, I was logged in, and had done the magic NAM-,. I asked the system to create a 100000 block file, pressing the RETURN on the command at 11AM sharp...which *appeared* to make the system crash, at least from my end. All the other terminals were 'dead'. About 2 minutes into my create, my terminal (a good old TTY ASR33), along with everyone else's chattered a few garbage characters, like these beasts did when the carrier dropped. Either the system totally crashed, or the operator had killed it to reboot. I was a little scared at that point, as I figured it was all caused by me. I didn't do any more tinkering after the system came back up that day. My friend called me that evening, and said "Did you do that?". So, I knew that whatever I was doing, it was system-wide! He wanted to know how I did it, but I didn't tell. I did a few more experiments with this strangeness, but never 'crashed' it again, just playing around to see how much resource this 'warped' place that NAM-, too me to could consume. In this space, I had a larger working storage set, had virtually unlimited file storage space (I wrote a little program that would CREate lots and lots of small files), and unlimited connect time. It seemed that NAM-, sent you off to the 'system overhead' area...where all resources that weren't in use were available to whomever had executed the NAM-, command. After tinkering with it for a while, I decided I should tell my instructor about it. The instructor and I were very close, and I figured this was something that could cause problems if the word got out about it. He was amazed..and immediately called the operator of the system, and arranged a meeting so we could tell them what was going on. We arranged a meeting in an evening after 'prime time' so I could demonstrate this. The operator was stunned...it would be terrible if the word about this got out...people could 'wedge' the machine pretty much at will. Apparently, a call was made to HP the next morning, and there were HP folks there the next day, and within a couple of days, the NAM-, command would result in something like "ILLEGAL FORMAT". According to our system operator, from what was told to her by the HP engineers, was that the the NAM-, command was a purposely written-in 'back door' that was put into the TSB code. It had to have been known about by HP, because of the mention of not using a name of ',' in the manual. In any case, the back door was closed, at least on our system. I made a point of checking, when we upgraded to the C', E, F, and ACCESS systems to check the NAM-, to see if it worked. It never did again. Sorry for the long message, but I thought it'd be of some interest to those who used these wonderful old systems. Best wishes, Rick Bensene From max82 at surfree.com Thu Feb 25 10:52:29 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was In-Reply-To: <36D5760B.920B46AA@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: >Sorry Max, but combining "large numbers" and "dozen" is really funny, and >I'm still smiling about it! What I meant to say was, the books said something over a dozen. Maybe five hundred or so per year. Certainly a thousand since Ben Franklin. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Feb 25 11:36:37 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories In-Reply-To: <004001be60dc$50d28c80$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Message-ID: Some somewhat regional information to follow, but valid as to the fates of some past friends (systems)... On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Rick Bensene wrote: > Jay West (in a wonderfully informative message about HP systems) wrote: > > > Generally the HP2000 designation meant the system was running TSB > > (Timeshare > > BASIC) which is my particular target of collecting since it was the first > > computer system I ever learned. If the same hardware was running DOS/RTE, > > etc. is was called an HP 1000. > > > So, does anyone out there know of, or have, any of the HP 2000 Timeshared > BASIC systems *running*? This is what I learned on also. > The county educational services district purchased an original HP 2000B > TSB system. Over the years, it was upgraded to a C, then C', then E, F, and > finally ACCESS. The last I know of the system being in service was in the > early > 1980's. I've tried to track down what happened to it, but every lead has > resulted > in a dead end. Ah, yes... I remember it well. As to its fate, I can offer a few more tidbits... The METCOM system, known as "Darlene" to its friends, met its final (publically anyway) end at a sealed bid county auction in the early 1980s. Timesharing was no longer considered a 'practical' solution to teaching computing in the schools, with the increasing presence of the PC... "Overhead, expense, and reliability" were some other terms bandied around. I attended the auction along with some friends who hoped to have a shot at obtaining the system. We all thought it would be really cool to have. That hope did not last long... The system was last seen in numerous pieces in the building where the auction was held (some miles away from the former 'Computer Center'). One of the (washing machine style) disk drives had a rather large 'ding' in the side, indicating that the people who moved it did not apparently have much of a clue... B^{ The system was auctioned "whole", or so they said... What we were able to idenfity in the lot was the main cabinet with the two CPUs, a tape drive, and two standing hard drives. The ASR-35 console TTY, and modem banks were nowhere to be seen... As I recall, most of us just wandered out of the room when the winning bid was announced. As I recall it was somewhere around $3800... (far too much back then for a bunch of kids...) Hung around for a time watching bids on some other items, never did get anything out of it... And never did see the system again... (or find out who won the bid) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 25 11:42:50 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 In-Reply-To: <36D4FC03.57C0B156@rain.org> Message-ID: I used to have a 745 about 20 years ago. I eventually gave it to somebody who needed it more than I. There was a jumper inside that controlled whether the modem and terminal sections were connected to each other. By setting that, (I do not remember which jumper) I was then able to cable the terminal to operate as a printer for a TRS-80, as well as using the modem for the TRS-80. By making up a special loop-back cable (in the connector hood), it was still possible to use the modem and terminal with each other. Be aware that there are a number of variant models, with differing features. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Marvin wrote: > Rick Bensene wrote: > > > > The machine is a "Model 745 Portable" with built-in acoustic coupler > > cups at the rear of the machine. It works at 300 or 110 baud. > > > The first question for y'all is this: On the rear panel of the machine is > > a DB-15 male connector...my assumption this is for hooking up a (RS232 or > > current-loop) 'direct connection' to the terminal. I don't have any > > documentation > > for the machine, and am wondering if anyone out there might know the pinout > > for this connector. > > According to the tech manual, it sounds like the port is the EIA/Auxiliary > Coupler and the cable has one 15 pin connector attaching to the 745, and two > other cables. > > (Keyboard/Printer EIA Interface) > P1-9 ..... P2-1 Protective Ground > P1-13 ..... P2-2 Transmit Data > P1-12 ..... P2-3 Receive Data > P1-10 ..... P2-4 +12v to RTS > P1-1 ..... P2-7 Signal ground > P1-11 ..... P2-8 Data Carrier Detect > P1-15 ..... P2-20 Data Terminal Ready > > (Acoustic Coupler EIA Interface) > P1-8 ..... P3-3 Receive Data > P1-3 ..... P3-2 Transmit Data > P1-1 ..... P3-7 Signal Ground > P1-2 ..... P3-8 Carrier Detect > P1-9 ..... P3-1 Protective Ground > P1-6 ..... P3-5 Clear to Send > P1-7 ..... P3-6 Data Set Ready > > Hope this helps. From Jgzabol at aol.com Thu Feb 25 11:40:26 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? Message-ID: AFAIK, the IBM museum in Sindelfingen, Germany, has one, and it is up and running (together with their 650, 1401, etc.). If you need contacts there, I could give them; no Internet, though !! John G. Zabolitzky From Jgzabol at aol.com Thu Feb 25 11:43:43 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Hans Franke? Message-ID: <2d096fee.36d58bcf@aol.com> I think he is on a business trip; I do not have any other contact information, but could try to get some if urgently needed. John G. Zabolitzky From kevan at heydon.org Thu Feb 25 12:01:32 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > Is it really impossible to either trace out the schematics or to fix it > without schematics? No it is not, but... > If so, why? Time is a big problem. I get precious little time to spend with my computers and I certainly don't get large blocks of time, 30mins - 1hour is typical. (I certainly don't resent not being able to spend more time with them as spending time playing my daughter is great fun.) > A schematic is not always necessary for repairing something... True... > Is the Lisa PSU so different from all other SMPSUs? A lot of those are > easy enough to fix. ...but if you have little or no electronics experience then it can seem rather daunting, given what I heard about the large voltages/current found inside these things. Heck I don't even know how SMPSUs work. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Feb 25 12:07:43 1999 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories In-Reply-To: Message-ID: HP200C: A Guide to Time Shared Basic This was my very first Computer Book and ended up reading cover to cover. Access was through an ASR33 teletype through leased line to a company called OTIS (Oregon Total Information Service?). I managed to do a lot of programming the first couple of years but I've had folks tell me I was jaded for learning Basic first. The verdict is still out.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, James Willing wrote: > Some somewhat regional information to follow, but valid as to the fates of > some past friends (systems)... > > On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Rick Bensene wrote: > > > Jay West (in a wonderfully informative message about HP systems) wrote: > > > > > Generally the HP2000 designation meant the system was running TSB > > > (Timeshare > > > BASIC) which is my particular target of collecting since it was the first > > > computer system I ever learned. If the same hardware was running DOS/RTE, > > > etc. is was called an HP 1000. > > > > > So, does anyone out there know of, or have, any of the HP 2000 Timeshared > > BASIC systems *running*? This is what I learned on also. > > The county educational services district purchased an original HP 2000B > > TSB system. Over the years, it was upgraded to a C, then C', then E, F, and > > finally ACCESS. The last I know of the system being in service was in the > > early > > 1980's. I've tried to track down what happened to it, but every lead has > > resulted > > in a dead end. > > Ah, yes... I remember it well. As to its fate, I can offer a few more > tidbits... > > The METCOM system, known as "Darlene" to its friends, met its final > (publically anyway) end at a sealed bid county auction in the early 1980s. > > Timesharing was no longer considered a 'practical' solution to teaching > computing in the schools, with the increasing presence of the PC... > "Overhead, expense, and reliability" were some other terms bandied around. > > I attended the auction along with some friends who hoped to have a shot at > obtaining the system. We all thought it would be really cool to have. > That hope did not last long... > > The system was last seen in numerous pieces in the building where the > auction was held (some miles away from the former 'Computer Center'). One > of the (washing machine style) disk drives had a rather large 'ding' in > the side, indicating that the people who moved it did not apparently have > much of a clue... B^{ > > The system was auctioned "whole", or so they said... What we were able to > idenfity in the lot was the main cabinet with the two CPUs, a tape drive, > and two standing hard drives. > > The ASR-35 console TTY, and modem banks were nowhere to be seen... > > As I recall, most of us just wandered out of the room when the winning bid > was announced. As I recall it was somewhere around $3800... > (far too much back then for a bunch of kids...) > > Hung around for a time watching bids on some other items, never did get > anything out of it... And never did see the system again... (or find out > who won the bid) > > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > From elvey at hal.com Thu Feb 25 12:29:36 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 In-Reply-To: <01be605b$9a45aae0$e7c962cf@devlaptop> Message-ID: <199902251829.KAA22091@civic.hal.com> "Mike" wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Dwight Elvey > >> Anyone know where 1101 RAM chips are for sale (if at all?) > > BTW, the pinouts for the 2102 is 1-a6,2-a5, 3-r/w, 4-a1, > 5-a2,6-a3,7-a4,8-a0,9-gnd,10-vcc,11-din,12-dout,13-ce,14-a9,15-a8,16-a7. > So, what's the difference between the 2102 and 1101? 512 bits??? > > - Mike, dogas@leading.net > Hi Mike The 1101 was a 256x1 part 2102 is a 1Kx1 part. I'm sure the pinouts would be similar but exactly what I don't know. 2101 is a 256x4. I think all of these have seperate input and outputs, unlike the 2111 that has a bidirectional I/O. Dwight From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu Feb 25 11:26:13 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 magic mode found! Message-ID: <80256723.00607B6D.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Philip, > > You need to read the messages more closely. I was the one that found the I probably do, but I don't have time for that :-) In fact I didn't see your message at all! (and I've been getting other Classiccmp messages out of order, but that's nothing new) > EXEC command and posted it here. And yes I had already talked to Rick > about them but he couldn't remember the command or anything about it. I > told you about that conversation. It wasn't till I posted the message about > the EXEC command and Rick read it that it stuck a chord and he remembered > the codes to use with it. Oh, you mean you'd already _tried_ to pick Rick's brains. That's something quite different ;-) ;-) ;-) Philip. From mikeford at netwiz.net Thu Feb 25 11:58:32 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990225074605.009b91a0@206.231.8.2> References: < Message-ID: >Upon the date 12:14 AM 2/25/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM >>1130? >> > >Yes, there is. We were just talking about 1130's in the first week of Feb >on the list here. > >John Zabolitzky told us there is a working 1130 at the IBM Museum in >Sindelfingen, Germany. That's the only one anybody has mentioned here so >far. There's a couple of other non-working machines. One just got pulled >out of Cornell Univ. by one our list colleagues (dang! It was only two or >three hours drive from me.) UC Riverside used to (maybe still) have one buried back in the warrens of the physics dept, and it was actively used as late as the early 80's when the maintaince contract was dropped and use restricted due to wear and tear on the selectric based console. That was the machine I learned assembly language on, and a fair amount of what makes a computer tick. The 1130 seems to me an almost ideal target for preservation, it is desk sized, a fairly powerfull system, and a significant milestone in computer technology (first removable disc cartridges). While I am strolling down memory lane, what about some Westinghouse 1600's or GE 550 computers? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Feb 25 13:20:07 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990225112007.007da970@mail.sfu.ca> Hi Group: I have absolutely no RT-11 documentation, although I have two systems running it (both 11/23s). Does anyone have any online documentation on the command language, configuration, device drivers, sysgen, etc? I'm fumbling around without it. I couldn't find much on the usual sources. An online intro, users' manual, or similar would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca From hansp at digiweb.com Thu Feb 25 14:37:01 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? References: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <36D5B46D.9EB6EA91@digiweb.com> Mike Ford wrote: > > Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM 1130? Yes, apparently the IBM House of Computing in Solingen Germany has an operational 1130. ACONIT in Grenoble France has a system with a full set of technical docs and hopes (eventually) to bring it back to life. There are others, I will let them speak for themselves... What is your interest? Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 25 15:16:55 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: 8 inch wang compatible disks... In-Reply-To: <36D4F4E7.9F140A1E@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Noel Fields wrote: > Ok :) But is hard sector disks, the normal for 8 inch disks? Or is this a "wang" > thang (pun intended!) :) No, I would say that they are not the normal thing for 8", Noel. Early on they were fairly common, but most (excluding Wang) makers converted to soft sector disks. Tektronix, used the hard sector ones with their 4907 drives for the 405n series, and there were others. - don From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 25 15:24:12 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: 3 1/2" boot disk for Spectravideo.738 computer (fwd) Message-ID: Can anyone help this chap out on his quest for a system disk for the Spectravideo.738? And, perhaps, he will send me a copy also. Please info me on your reply. Thanks! - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:44:01 +0100 From: Arnfinn M. Manders Reply-To: <@c2i.net> To: donm@crash.cts.com Subject: 3 1/2" boot disk for Spectraviedeo.738 computer Hi Don Trevor Gowen Suggested that I might contact you regarding a 3 1/2" boot disk for my Spectravideo-738 portable computer. The disk has the following specifications: Single side Soft sector IBM MFM format 80 tracks double density 9 sectors/track 360 Kbytes formatted capacity Since this is a UK made machine, and the company is still in bussiness as Logic 3 International Ltd., I figured that there may be a chance that there are a few collectors in the the UK that may have this machine in their collection. Can you give me a lead to someone that may be able to supply me with a disk? The address of the company is Logic 3 International Unit 27, Norhfield Industrial Estate Beresford Ave., Wembley Middelsex HAQ 1NW Phone:0181 9022211 Best regards from the cold and dark Norway Arnfinn From dogas at leading.net Thu Feb 25 15:17:36 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 Message-ID: <01be6104$4469cb20$dbc962cf@devlaptop> -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey >Hi Mike > The 1101 was a 256x1 part 2102 is a 1Kx1 part. I'm sure >the pinouts would be similar but exactly what I don't know. >2101 is a 256x4. I think all of these have seperate input >and outputs, unlike the 2111 that has a bidirectional I/O. Thanks Dwight. There is a good article in Kilobaud #1, "How Memory Works" that features the 2102.... It shows the chip's 1K bits as a 32x32 'memory matrix' addressable in a row(5 bit) x column(5 bit) format. - Mike:dogas@leading.net From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 25 15:39:02 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Hans Franke? In-Reply-To: <2d096fee.36d58bcf@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Feb 1999 Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > I think he is on a business trip; I do not have any other contact > information, but could try to get some if urgently needed. Nothing urgent. I just hadn't heard from him in a while and wanted to make sure he was OK. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From mbg at world.std.com Thu Feb 25 15:46:11 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation Message-ID: <199902252146.AA28861@world.std.com> >I have absolutely no RT-11 documentation, although I have two systems >running it (both 11/23s). Does anyone have any online documentation on >the command language, configuration, device drivers, sysgen, etc? I'm >fumbling around without it. There is no on-line documentation... if there is, I'm sure Mentec would be a little bothered by it. There might be HELP available on the system, depending on the version and whether all the required files are still there... Try 'SHOW CONFIG' or 'SHOW ALL' to see if you get anything (this actually runs the program RESORC.SAV from SY:) The command language is DCP (Digital Command Language), and is pretty consistent from one system to another, modulo those things which aren't supported... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Thu Feb 25 16:05:43 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation Message-ID: <199902252205.AA17469@world.std.com> >The command language is DCP (Digital Command Language), and is That's *DCL*... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 25 13:01:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990224200940.009b8150@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Feb 24, 99 08:26:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2457 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990225/4fe4b11d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 25 13:03:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 24, 99 05:55:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990225/d3110a4d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 25 13:07:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Feb 24, 99 07:52:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 266 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990225/539c8ffe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 25 13:31:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Lisa screen adjustment In-Reply-To: from "Kevan Heydon" at Feb 25, 99 10:01:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 974 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990225/0647d3b0/attachment.ksh From pechter at pechter.ddns.org Thu Feb 25 16:47:41 1999 From: pechter at pechter.ddns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation In-Reply-To: <199902252146.AA28861@world.std.com> from Megan at "Feb 25, 1999 4:46:11 pm" Message-ID: <199902252247.RAA04774@pechter.ddns.org> > > Try 'SHOW CONFIG' or 'SHOW ALL' to see if you get anything (this > actually runs the program RESORC.SAV from SY:) > > The command language is DCP (Digital Command Language), and is > pretty consistent from one system to another, modulo those things > which aren't supported... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > I think that's DCL... 8-) and for fun do show users on an RT11 system. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 25 19:53:10 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990225112007.007da970@mail.sfu.ca> Message-ID: >I have absolutely no RT-11 documentation, although I have two systems >running it (both 11/23s). Does anyone have any online documentation on the >command language, configuration, device drivers, sysgen, etc? I'm fumbling >around without it. > >I couldn't find much on the usual sources. An online intro, users' manual, >or similar would be helpful. Give the following two sites a try. Unfortunatly the first one isn't accepting connections at the moment. The second one you'll have to dedicate some serious time to pouring through. http://www.cs.uregina.ca/dept/manuals/Manuals/lab.html http://www-ols.fnal.gov/ols/documents/docpn.html As for running a SYSGEN, you can run one without even knowing how, it's pretty well documented, although I did have to use my V3 book (I run V5.4) to check one thing the last time I ran a SYSGEN. The tricky thing is knowing how to start, which IIRC, is "IND SYSGEN". Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rcini at msn.com Thu Feb 25 19:33:42 1999 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: V35-RS232 cable? Message-ID: <007a01be612f$8bb98120$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Hello, all: One of my recent acquisitions is a Roytron paper tape punch/reader. Before I actually got it, it had a v.35-to-DB25 cable on it . Now it doesn't, of course. I'm ignorant (about many things, but particularly) about v.35, so could this have been an RS-232 adapter cable? If so, how could I make one? Thanks for any info. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 25 20:56:34 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:24 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories Message-ID: <003201be6133$a0366ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Rick; Great to hear some stories about my personal obsession - TSB. I know of only one TSB system still up and running - a friend of mine in CA. I still don't have mine up but I'm getting awfully close - all I need is a 2748 paper tape reader and a 12920 mux set. I found the paper tape reader but they want $650 for it. Pound Sand I said ;) Yes, there is an emulator for the 2100 series cpu. Check out Jeff Moffat's website. Don't remember the URL, but search yahoo & such for "2100" and you'll find it. He has an emulator that runs on dos. It is supposed to run on Unix, but - it has some real problems with FreeBSD. Another user on the list here was kind enough to fix it up for freebsd and send me a diff file. I've got it here if you want it. The emulator supports most of the 2100 instruction set (or subset of the 21MX M series - however you look at it). I haven't yet dug into the emulator - eventually I will for sure - but for now I'm obsessed with getting the "real thing" up and running. As I recall from a quick first blush look - the emulator didn't have any real support for emulation of the select code addressed devices - ie - no 13210 disk controller, no 12920 muxes, etc.. but jeff has done a lot of great hard work on it so it's a fantastic starting point. On a side note - I'm still waiting but recently reconfirmed that I'm receiving a complete SOURCE code listing for TSB (2000F varietry) both the I/O and system processor portions. Then we can not only run it but change it (and perhaps fix that NAM-, issue ). Another person recently offered me a copy of the "cupertino gold tapes". This is source for every version of TSB, RTE, DOS, etc.... That isn't a firm deal yet but you can imagine my anticipation if it works out :) You also queried about if HP still made TSB available in any form. I've got some pretty close ties to HP - the answer is a resounding NO. I even went so far as to plead my case to their Historical Archives administrator. There's not a shred left. But eventually I DID find some load tapes (both punched and magnetic). See ya! Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Rick Bensene To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:57 AM Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories >Jay West (in a wonderfully informative message about HP systems) wrote: > >> Generally the HP2000 designation meant the system was running TSB >> (Timeshare >> BASIC) which is my particular target of collecting since it was the first >> computer system I ever learned. If the same hardware was running DOS/RTE, >> etc. is was called an HP 1000. >> >So, does anyone out there know of, or have, any of the HP 2000 Timeshared >BASIC systems *running*? This is what I learned on also. >The county educational services district purchased an original HP 2000B >TSB system. Over the years, it was upgraded to a C, then C', then E, F, and >finally ACCESS. The last I know of the system being in service was in the >early >1980's. I've tried to track down what happened to it, but every lead has >resulted >in a dead end. > >I was able to visit the 'computer center' where the machine was kept (more >on this in the story below). It was >a little hole-in-the-wall building about 5 miles from my house. I think >that >it was running in the 2000C configuration when I saw it. It used dual >CPU's (don't remember which ones). According to the operator, one CPU >handled >the I/O stuff (the system had, as I recall, 32 ports, most connected to >Bell 103 modems), and the other 'ran' the BASIC environment. The system had >a washing-machine sized disk drive with removable multi-platter disk packs. >There was also a rack/cabinet about the same size as the rack that the >two CPU's were in that contained a fast drum memory that was used for >swapping store. > >Does anyone know if HP still can make available the TSB code? It would be >TOTALLY amazing to get ahold of it, write and emulator for the CPU and >associated hardware on something like a PII 450 running Linux, and *run* TSB >again. >It would be a big project, but chances of finding the real mccoy >seem pretty unlikely nowadays. > >Here's a recollection for y'all on the 2000C Timeshared BASIC system. > >One day I was reading the TSB manual (wish I still had it, but I think it >ended up coming un-bound because I used it so much, and I think it got >tossed away years ago when I was moving) in an effort to learn any new >tidbits of information. > >On the page for the "NAM" command, which was used to attach a name to the >current program in working storage, I noted that it said to NEVER name a >program >with a single comma; i.e. NAM-, > >I wondered why this would be. So, I wandered into the terminal room at >our high school, and dialed up the machine (I still remember the phone >number!) >and logged in. I typed in a little program, and typed NAM-, and pressed >RETURN. A linefeed popped back at me. I thought..."well, that was >exciting". > >So, I typed LIS and there was my little program as expected. I then >did a CATLIST to dump out my user directory. The CATLIST came back empty. >This was startling, as I *thought* I had a whole bunch of stuff in my >directory. >I then typed the command that would tell you how much (I think it was TIME) >connect time you'd used this session, and how much of your monthly time >quota >you had left. The command came back with really weird answers...and, it >came back with different numbers each time I ran the command. This was VERY >strange. So, I logged off, and re-logged back in, and didn't type NAM-, >and did a CATLIST. There was all my stuff. I typed in NAM-, then did a >CATLIST... >and all my stuff was gone. > >I then thought...I wonder if the NAM-, magically transports you to a >different >file area. So, I typed up a little program, gave it a name with the NAM- >command (which seemed to take, and not affect 'where' I was), and SAVed it. >I did a CATLIST. There it was. The interesting thing was that the CATLIST >(which I hadn't really noticed before) said that I had some tremendous >amount >of storage blocks remaining. > >Upon noticing this, I thought I'd try CREating a big file, just to see how >much >space I really had available to me. I issued a command to create a 1000 >block >file..which was a pretty good-sized file, as I remember. I typed in the >command, and pressed RETURN. There were three other TTY's in our computer >lab, and all were occupied by other students at the time. When I pushed >RETURN, >all the other TTY's quit printing for a second or two...just like the >machine >had crashed (which happened from time to time), but as soon as my terminal >printed it's acknowledging linefeed, they started right back up where they >left off. >Hmmmm... > >So, how about a 10000 block file? Well, that took the system a while to >create...and everyone else was 'dead' during that time...no character echo, >output 'froze' at the point where I pressed RETURN on my terminal. > >I did a CATLIST...and sure enough, there was my little program, my 1000 >block >file, and my 10000 block file. I did a KILL on my 10000 block file, and >that took a bit, and everyone else again froze during the KILL operation. >Too weird. I left it alone for then, and called a friend that night that >went to another school that used the same system, and told him to make sure >that he was logged on at 11AM the next morning, and observe. > >At 11AM the next morning, I was logged in, and had done the magic NAM-,. >I asked the system to create a 100000 block file, pressing the RETURN >on the command at 11AM sharp...which *appeared* to make >the system crash, at least from my end. All the other terminals were >'dead'. >About 2 minutes into my create, my terminal (a good old TTY ASR33), along >with >everyone else's chattered a few garbage characters, like these beasts did >when >the carrier dropped. Either the system totally crashed, or the operator >had killed it to reboot. I was a little scared at that point, as I figured >it >was all caused by me. I didn't do any more tinkering after the system came >back >up that day. > >My friend called me that evening, and said "Did you do that?". So, I knew >that whatever I was doing, it was system-wide! He wanted to know how I >did >it, but I didn't tell. > >I did a few more experiments with this strangeness, but never 'crashed' it >again, >just playing around to see how much resource this 'warped' place that NAM-, >too me to could consume. In this space, I had a larger working storage set, >had virtually unlimited file storage space (I wrote a little program that >would CREate lots and lots of small files), and unlimited connect time. >It seemed that NAM-, sent you off to the 'system overhead' area...where all >resources that weren't in use were available to whomever had executed the >NAM-, command. > >After tinkering with it for a while, I decided I should tell my instructor >about >it. The instructor and I were very close, and I figured this was something >that >could cause problems if the word got out about it. He was amazed..and >immediately >called the operator of the system, and arranged a meeting so we could tell >them >what was going on. We arranged a meeting in an evening after 'prime time' >so I could demonstrate this. The operator was stunned...it would be >terrible >if the word about this got out...people could 'wedge' the machine pretty >much at will. Apparently, a call was made to HP the next morning, and there >were >HP folks there the next day, and within a couple of days, the NAM-, command >would result in something like "ILLEGAL FORMAT". > >According to our system operator, from what was told to her by the >HP engineers, was that the the NAM-, command was a purposely written-in >'back door' that was put into the TSB code. It had to have been known >about >by HP, because of the mention of not using a name of ',' in the manual. >In any case, the back door was closed, at least on our system. > >I made a point of checking, when we upgraded to the C', E, F, and ACCESS >systems >to check the NAM-, to see if it worked. It never did again. > >Sorry for the long message, but I thought it'd be of some interest to those >who used these wonderful old systems. > >Best wishes, >Rick Bensene > > From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 25 21:01:13 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories Message-ID: <004501be6134$46085f20$0101a8c0@jay> Jim wrote... >Ah, yes... I remember it well. As to its fate, I can offer a few more >tidbits... > >The METCOM system, known as "Darlene" to its friends, met its final >(publically anyway) end at a sealed bid county auction in the early 1980s. Our high school HP2000 started out as the 2000E variety, then was upgraded to 2000C', and finally to 2000 Access. It's lovable name was HUEY. Right next to it was our other high school machine, a PDP-11/03 running RT-11 with TSX+ extensions. It's name was DUEY. (I have already gotten several machines of mine up and running RT-11 with TSX+). Gee - I wonder what they would have named a third system if we had it ;) Jay From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 25 21:19:10 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? Message-ID: <00d301be6136$c7dc89c0$0101a8c0@jay> in case you missed my post on classiccmp, Jeff Moffat wrote an emulator for the 2100. Don't recall the URL, but search yahoo & such for 2100 and you should find it. Jay West -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 8:11 AM Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? >Anyone know of any HP1000/2000/3000 emulators (for a PC running Linux?) > From roblwill at usaor.net Fri Feb 26 00:20:44 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. Message-ID: <01be6150$244915c0$9f8ea6d1@the-general> I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? If so, what version? I tried 5.0, and it won't work. ThAnX, -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au Thu Feb 25 21:47:59 1999 From: netcafe at pirie.mtx.net.au (Computer Room Internet Cafe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. Message-ID: <01be613a$cd8b2bc0$f17d38cb@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> -----Original Message----- From: Jason Willgruber To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, 26 February 1999 15:06 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. >I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... > >Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? Yeah, I think it does. >If so, what version? I 3.3 IIRC. I've got one here somewhere, I'll dig it out over the weekend and have a look. I might be able to do you a disk image of the boot disk. >tried 5.0, and it won't work. I think only the NEC 'version' of the OS will work. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au From KFergason at aol.com Thu Feb 25 22:07:20 1999 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? Message-ID: If anyone does find it, please post it. (or email me). I did not find it via Yahoo or Dogpile. I started computing on a HP2000F back in '78. Man, that was fun. Thanks, Kelly KFergason@aol.com In a message dated 2/25/99 9:24:42 PM Central Standard Time, jlwest@tseinc.com writes: > in case you missed my post on classiccmp, Jeff Moffat wrote an emulator for > the 2100. Don't recall the URL, but search yahoo & such for 2100 and you > should find it. > > Jay West > -----Original Message----- > From: Arfon Gryffydd > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 8:11 AM > Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? > > > >Anyone know of any HP1000/2000/3000 emulators (for a PC running Linux?) > > From at258 at osfn.org Thu Feb 25 22:15:55 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. In-Reply-To: <01be6150$244915c0$9f8ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: I think the APC III ran DOS 3.x. DOS 2.11 was for the original APC, I think. On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... > > Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? If so, what version? I > tried 5.0, and it won't work. > > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Feb 25 22:19:43 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? References: Message-ID: <36D620DF.C88BFD27@idirect.com> >Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > AFAIK, the IBM museum in Sindelfingen, Germany, has one, and it > is up and running (together with their 650, 1401, etc.). If you need contacts > there, I could give them; no Internet, though !! > > John G. Zabolitzky Jerome Fine replies: That number "650" brings back a lot of memories. It was 40 years ago when I first used one. There was only card input and card output, if I remember correctly. The assembler was called SOAP and I think there was a FORTRAN of sorts at the very end. I doubt if I have the old "TOPSY" loader and sort of OS around in 80 column punched cards. I would appreciate the contacts. I might even be able to provide some old memories. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Feb 25 22:19:52 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation References: <3.0.5.32.19990225112007.007da970@mail.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <36D620E8.26329466@idirect.com> >Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > Hi Group: > I have absolutely no RT-11 documentation, although I have two systems > running it (both 11/23s). Does anyone have any online documentation on the > command language, configuration, device drivers, sysgen, etc? I'm fumbling > around without it. > > I couldn't find much on the usual sources. An online intro, users' manual, > or similar would be helpful. > > Thanks in advance, > > Kevin > > ========================================================== > Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department > E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 > Email: mcquiggi@sf Jerome Fine replies: The big problem is that almost all RT-11 documentation is copyright and very expensive and very large. The DOCS, are they are named, are about 3' of binders for the latest V5.6 of RT-11. I have been told that the QJ013-GZ part number runs about $ US 1300. Now, which version of RT-11 are you running? Why would you like to have the DOCS? Do you wish the full set of DOCS? This question is also for other RT-11 hobby users. I have noted that there seems to be a lack of interest by hobby users in Y2K patches for older versions of RT-11. I have done some commercial Y2K patches for V5.4G or RT-11, but I deduce that most commercial users would rather pay the full update price for V5.7 of RT-11 for the H-kit which I understand is about $ US 1600. On the other hand, a set of Y2K patches for hobby users for V5.3 of RT-11 does not seem to be of much interest. I have considered making a set, but hardly any hobby users have expressed an interest. Is that because most hobby users are not interested in Y2K operations or perhaps because in the same way that hobby users want to use the original software, they also want ONLY the original software? I remember seeing interest in old versions of MS-DOS. Since I doubt that they are Y2K compliant, is that because a hobby user want the original software to run just as it was? Or was MS-DOS never made Y2K compliant? I guess if MS-DOS was not, it never will be at this point. Incidentally, a friend of mine may still have some old copies of RT-11 DOCS. I don't even know which version. Should I ask? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict From jlwest at tseinc.com Thu Feb 25 22:20:17 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? Message-ID: <010901be613f$5197f660$0101a8c0@jay> Okay - I got off my behind and looked it up in my favorites folder ;) The URL for the emulator is: http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/index.html When you get to the website, notice there is a roughly 17 tape paper tape set for something called MSU 4 user Time Share BASIC. NOTE THAT IS NOT "TSB". The msu stuff is greatly stripped down - basically supports a TSB like basic and saves to/from paper tape. It is however, quite interesting to see how they wrote their interpreter. Even used the chebbychev transformations....:) Jay -----Original Message----- From: KFergason@aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:15 PM Subject: Re: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? >If anyone does find it, please post it. (or email me). >I did not find it via Yahoo or Dogpile. > >I started computing on a HP2000F back in '78. Man, that was fun. > >Thanks, > >Kelly >KFergason@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/25/99 9:24:42 PM Central Standard Time, jlwest@tseinc.com >writes: > >> in case you missed my post on classiccmp, Jeff Moffat wrote an emulator for >> the 2100. Don't recall the URL, but search yahoo & such for 2100 and you >> should find it. >> >> Jay West >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Arfon Gryffydd >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >> Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 8:11 AM >> Subject: HP3000/2000/1000 emulators? >> >> >> >Anyone know of any HP1000/2000/3000 emulators (for a PC running Linux?) >> > > From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Feb 25 22:32:02 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Feb 24, 99 09:36:35 pm Message-ID: <199902260432.UAA07594@fraser.sfu.ca> Ah, amateur radio RTTY gear. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 25 22:32:40 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation In-Reply-To: <36D620E8.26329466@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Jerome Fine wrote: > user want the original software to run just as it was? Or was > MS-DOS never made Y2K compliant? I guess if MS-DOS > was not, it never will be at this point. As far as the DATE command goes, MS-DOS has been Y2K compliant since at least ver 6.0. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Feb 25 22:33:52 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Feb 25, 99 00:14:58 am Message-ID: <199902260433.UAA07974@fraser.sfu.ca> There's one in Portland, Oregon, but I'm not sure when it last ran. Paul Pierce owns it. Kevin > > Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM 1130? > > > -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 25 22:54:21 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. In-Reply-To: <01be6150$244915c0$9f8ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... > > Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? If so, what version? I > tried 5.0, and it won't work. The original APC (8" disks) ran 2.11. I would guess that the APC III was not too advanced from that and may also have been slightly non-standard. - don > ThAnX, > -- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > From dastar at ncal.verio.com Thu Feb 25 22:58:01 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories In-Reply-To: <004001be60dc$50d28c80$a5d302c7@camaro.enginet.com> Message-ID: What a great story! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Thu Feb 25 23:29:22 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: tandy1000 (fwd) Message-ID: Here's someone wanting to sell a Tandy 1000 system. Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: javajam@totalink.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 06:15:36 -0500 From: Dave Trevino Subject: tandy1000 I have an old Tandy 1000 I was thinking of piecing out. Now I see there is some interest in this era of computing. I personally don't have a strong interest in these computers, but I'd hate to trash a great example of early eighties pc. I hope you could tell me Where I could sell and for what. The system is: Tandy 1000 (no letters)8088 processor dual 360k 5.25 128k base mem w/ isa expansion to 640k original rgb monitor, keyboard, two joysticks, and touch pad original 120 dot matrix printer My parents purchased the computer new about 1984-5, and it has never given any problems. It is in pristine shape with just a lillte wear in one joystick and on the touch pad. I have all manuals for computer and original Tandy specific version of MS-DOS 2.1 and Deskmate. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Dave Trevino Also I have an 8088 Xtra 20mb isa HD 1 5.25" 360k 1 3.5" 720k with bad switch on monitor Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Puttin' the smack down on the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri Feb 26 00:28:32 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? In-Reply-To: <36D5B46D.9EB6EA91@digiweb.com> References: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: >Mike Ford wrote: >> >> Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM >>1130? > >Yes, apparently the IBM House of Computing in Solingen Germany has an >operational 1130. ACONIT in Grenoble France has a system with a full set >of technical docs and hopes (eventually) to bring it back to life. > >There are others, I will let them speak for themselves... > >What is your interest? I may still have the punched cards for my ASM moon lander game that runs on the console via the lights and switches. Really just that I was thinking about it. A neat old system. I'd like to think I kept one of them going due to a fairly extensive fortran program I wrote to calculate and graph a complicated series of physics ballistics labs. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Feb 26 01:14:46 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories In-Reply-To: "Jay West"'s message of Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:56:34 -0600 References: <003201be6133$a0366ba0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <199902260714.XAA03534@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > Yes, there is an emulator for the 2100 series cpu. Check out Jeff Moffat's > website. Don't remember the URL, but search yahoo & such for "2100" and > you'll find it. He has an emulator that runs on dos. It is supposed to run > on Unix, but - it has some real problems with FreeBSD. Another user on the > list here was kind enough to fix it up for freebsd and send me a diff file. It's OK to blame me in public, Jay. I probably still have the diffs around too. The diffs pretty much just make bugs come out elsewhere (to wit, instead of the simulator's text being emitted with LF-only newlines so they're hard to read, the simulator aborts when the simulated 2100 halts), and I really ought to quit screwing around with e-mail and spend the time working on fixing the problem by making the controlling terminal abstraction a little bit more abstract and probably cleaning up the Un*x terminal I/O code some too; it's lifted from Doug Jones' PDP-8 simulator and it does some non-POSIXy things. OTOH if I make it POSIXy it will probably not work on older Un*xes. Decisions, decisions. Jeff Moffatt and I did exchange e-mail about it two or three weeks ago and then I got sidetracked by the day job. Turns out he did most of his development and testing under MS-DOS. -Frank McConnell From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 26 05:03:51 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Info on Monitor Dynamics 1016 hard disk controller - S-100 Message-ID: <000001be6177$b1783440$9cf1fea9@mycroft> If anyone has docs on this board, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Fri Feb 26 07:00:58 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. Message-ID: <002401be6188$0e838760$733fc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> The APC III was not IBM compatible at all in it's original form. It had a special version of DOS and the floppy drives are _Quad_ density not double density. When NEC later saw the error of their ways, they offered a special card called an SLE that when installed allowed the machine to run standard IBM compatible software. This came with another version of DOS, which I think was also specific to this machine for booting purposes. SLE stood for Software Library Extender. I think the special card had it's own 8088 cpu. APC III's were heavily marketed here in Australia and were once very easy to find. I have a number in deep storage (ie too deep to get out and look at easily). NEC also provided financial incentives for software developers here and I have come across several cases of startup companies built on these incentives, all now gone though. I think NEC learned about compatibility the hard way. To get your machine going the first question is whether you have the SLE card or not. The second question is whether you have the correct monitor. I don't think normal IBM style monitors will work. Hans Olminkhof -----Original Message----- From: Jason Willgruber To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, 26 February 1999 13:36 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. >I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... > >Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? If so, what version? I >tried 5.0, and it won't work. > >ThAnX, >-- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > > From Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk Fri Feb 26 06:56:17 1999 From: Philip.Belben at PowerTech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! Message-ID: <80256724.00450CE3.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> [Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers] > I am not sure what the UK IEE regulations state about them (Philip?), but > they are not that common in domestic installations. I would always use > one on a socket for something like a lawnmower or other outdoor device. The IEE regulations require that any socket likely to be used for equipment operated out of doors be protected by a residual current circuit breaker with an instantaneous tripping current of not more than 30mA. > 1) A lot of classic computers - particularly minicomputers - have proper > mains filtering. The earth leakage current of the mains filter, when > operating correctly, is enough to trip most RCDs. Useful, that. Think of it as a protection grading problem. But here you have to choose the protection settings upstream to grade with the equipment downstream. I haven't heard of such filters drawing 30mA, though. > 2) They are not a substitute for an isolating transformer. If you want to > make measurements on the primary side of an SMPSU with an earthed 'scope > then you need an isolating transformer. Put the PSU on a RCD and said RCD > will trip (correctly) as soon as you connect the earth lead of the probe. > As doing things like that is the main reason why I'd be working on a live > machine, I'd rather have an isolating transformer. And of course an RCD > won't protect you if you manage to connect yourself across the output of > the isolating transformer. True. Any protective device is useful in a specific situation, and protects against specific faults. Anything can be used where it's inappropriate. But that doesn't make it per se a bad thing. > 3) They are only of use if you touch the mains side of a supply. They are > no use at all if you manage to get connected across the output of an See above. > isolated HV supply. But IMHO having a safety device in line makes you > careless. You may not realise it, but you will depend on the RCD to save > you if you make a mistake. And then you make a mistake where it can't help. I disagree. I once said, joking, "I used to recommend steel toe-caps when moving large computers, but now I generally prefer bare feet - so you make damned well sure you don't drop it!" My view is: A protective device - any protective device - is there to get you out of trouble, not to get you into it. One should never take risks (because one knows there is protection there) that one wouldn't take without it. I disagree that the knowledge that there is an RCCB in the circuit will make me complacent. > I'd rather just work carefully, knowing any mistake I make could be > fatal. I'd rather work carefully, knowing that any mistake I make could be fatal, but also knowing that I have taken all reasonable steps to ensure that it won't. Our protection specialist at Power Tech often talks about prortection in terms of "the fence at the top of the cliff" and "the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff". When working with live high voltages, one should always try and put in place as many "fence" systems as possible - rubber gloves, isolating transformers, insulated screwdrivers, hands in pockets etc., but "ambulance" systems such as residual current devices have their place. Philip. From dwollmann at ibmhelp.com Fri Feb 26 08:13:34 1999 From: dwollmann at ibmhelp.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: When did VC show up on IBM big iron? Message-ID: Does anyone recall when version control tools became available on IBM mainframe OSs? -- David Wollmann DST / DST Data Conversion http://www.ibmhelp.com/ ICQ: 10742063 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Feb 26 08:28:21 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: V35-RS232 cable? In-Reply-To: <007a01be612f$8bb98120$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990226062821.00953500@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 20:33 25-02-1999 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > One of my recent acquisitions is a Roytron paper tape punch/reader. >Before I actually got it, it had a v.35-to-DB25 cable on it . Now it >doesn't, of course. > > I'm ignorant (about many things, but particularly) about v.35, so could >this have been an RS-232 adapter cable? If so, how could I make one? It's not just a simple cable in a case like that. There would also be some level-shifting electronics involved for at least the data leads because V.35 is a differential interface. I'm a little surprised to hear of a V.35 cable on something like a paper tape handler. Are you sure the thing really does have a V.35 interface, and that Roytron didn't just happen to use the same connector that V.35 devices do? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Feb 26 08:54:28 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: FW: PDP-11/73's and Qbus parts Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990226065428.00951ad0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Fellow in New York's got a bunch of stuff available. Contact him directly if interested. -=-=- -=-=- From: jdvicto@mail.med.cornell.edu Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp-11 Subject: NYC: pdp-11/73's, related eqpt. available Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:27:43 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 13 Message-ID: <7b54b6$70k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.251.4.88 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Feb 26 03:27:43 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.01 (Win16; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x14.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 140.251.4.88 Path: news1.jps.net!news.pbi.net!151.142.223.51!WCG!news.idt.net!newsfeed.cwix.com !204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!n ot-for-mail Xref: news1.jps.net vmsnet.pdp-11:1117 New York City (Manhattan): Three 11/73 systems, also many Qbus boards (including two /73 boards, multiple DEC and non-DEC boards), magtapes, LN03's, etc. looking for a nice new home. For details, see [replace the "dash" with a dash, and replace the "tilde" with a tilde]... http://www"dash"users.med.cornell.edu/"tilde"jdvicto/nycpdp.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From edick at idcomm.com Fri Feb 26 09:26:14 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: V35-RS232 cable? Message-ID: <19990226152444707.AAA108@fuj03> I remember at least one contact with this sort of cabling arrangement. The v.35 normally uses a distinctive rectangular connector while most manufacturers like the cheaper 'D' connectors. The use of the 'D' connector has more to do with cable-assembly cost than anything else, and it may not be assumed that there is any implication of signal compatibility. If you intend to play with the v.35, you may want to look at the standard before risking the health of your interface hardware. I haven't looked at it in years, but IIRC, it's a differential arrangement at ECL levels or something on that order. I say this because I seem to have seen ECL logic used to generate the levels in at least one piece of equipment. I don't much regret that I don't remember the details. Now that amateur ISP's are running high-speed telecom interfaces, e.g. DS-3, from their basements, we'll undoubtedly see this one more often. Dick ---------- > From: Bruce Lane > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: V35-RS232 cable? > Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 7:28 AM > > At 20:33 25-02-1999 -0500, you wrote: > > >Hello, all: > > > > One of my recent acquisitions is a Roytron paper tape punch/reader. > >Before I actually got it, it had a v.35-to-DB25 cable on it . Now it > >doesn't, of course. > > > > I'm ignorant (about many things, but particularly) about v.35, so could > >this have been an RS-232 adapter cable? If so, how could I make one? > > It's not just a simple cable in a case like that. There would also be some > level-shifting electronics involved for at least the data leads because > V.35 is a differential interface. > > I'm a little surprised to hear of a V.35 cable on something like a paper > tape handler. Are you sure the thing really does have a V.35 interface, and > that Roytron didn't just happen to use the same connector that V.35 devices > do? > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com Fri Feb 26 09:34:53 1999 From: cswiger at wilma.widomaker.com (cswiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Computers on AM Radio... Message-ID: >Has anyone had their computer "speak" over the radio before? I have a >local (small-town) live radio talk show on one of the local AM stations Dunno about AM but Harry Shearer http://www.harryshearer.com (voice of Mr. Burns et al) does an ocassional sketch with "Ralph the Talking Computer" on his Public Radio FM shows in Santa Monica - of which there is a great online collection at above url. Plug Plug Chuck cswiger@widomaker.com From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Feb 26 10:07:42 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > PS: If 'RYRYRYRYRYRYRY....' means anything to you... that is the > > kind of gear I've bought from him. :) > > > > Hmm... Alternating mark and space bits in Baudot/Murray code? > > I would therefore guess at 5-level teleprinters or RTTY stuff... > > Am I close? > > -tony > CR CR LF LF FIGS BEL BEL BEL LTRS CR LF LF No Creed machines in your stash, Tony? No lurking Kleinschmidts? Nothing like the sound (and smell) of a Teletype Model 15 clacking away industriously at 45 WPM. And... these machines were all used in the early days of computing... vide the Bell Labs relay computer, and the ACE and Whirlwind and EDSAC (I believe), and many others. Also we have just exhausted the Flexowriter Thread... I wish I still had mine, now... snif, snif. :( Cheerz John From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 26 10:47:18 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Looking for VMEbus module manuals Message-ID: <4.1.19990222200335.009accb0@206.231.8.2> I have a couple of Mizar VMEbus Video boards, model 7710. Has anybody an operator's/technical manual? Either an original or decent xerographic copy will do. Has anybody written an OS-9/68K ver. 2.3 or 2.4 driver for this thing? These are 1989 vintage. I'm also looking for the following Motorola VMEbus Module manuals: ** MVME 236-1,2,3 (Publication number MVME 236-1 Dx ), DRAM memory module (x = version or edition number. I'll take any version.) ** MVME 133-1 ( " " MVME 133-1 Dx ), Processor module ** Support Docs manual for this processor: SIMVME133-1 ** MVME134bug ( " " MVME134bug Dx ), debugger manual for '134 processor module ** and finally the Support Documentation (schematics, etc.) for an MVME147S which is publication number SIMVME147S. Already have the manual. ** I'm also looking for Xycom catalogs and any tech documentation from back in the mid-80's. Thanks for your help! Regards, Chris PS: Are there any of you out there who have VMEbus gear in your collection? -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From bill at chipware.com Fri Feb 26 11:00:37 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Looking for VMEbus module manuals In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990222200335.009accb0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <000501be61a9$8862dba0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> > PS: Are there any of you out there who have VMEbus gear in your > collection? In our collection?!?! Heck, VME bus systems are still being used for embedded system development. We must have ten chassis (is that how it's spelled? doesn't look right, anyway, boxes, card cages, whatever) in use right now with various PowerPC, coldfire, 68K, etc. boards. Bill Sudbrink Integrated Chipware From hansp at digiweb.com Fri Feb 26 11:04:06 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: IBM 1130? References: <3.0.6.16.19990224202557.229f2dbe@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <36D6D406.F441BED8@digiweb.com> Mike Ford wrote: > >> Just curiousity on my part, but does anybody know of a still running IBM > >>1130? > >What is your interest? > I may still have the punched cards for my ASM moon lander game that runs on > the console via the lights and switches. Did that ever get distributed I have a vague recollection that I might have played that when I used the 1130 back in the late '60s. > Really just that I was thinking about it. A neat old system. I'd like to > think I kept one of them going due to a fairly extensive fortran program I > wrote to calculate and graph a complicated series of physics ballistics > labs. I'd be interested in seeing that and running it if we get our 1120 up and running. I will surely let the list know when that happens. Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From spc at armigeron.com Fri Feb 26 11:15:25 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: HP 2000 Time Shared BASIC Memories In-Reply-To: <199902260714.XAA03534@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Feb 25, 99 11:14:46 pm Message-ID: <199902261715.MAA00150@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1014 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/35059197/attachment.ksh From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Feb 26 11:31:08 1999 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Require Transputer software & documentation Message-ID: <01be61ad$cb3d9600$9101eac5@tiger> Hi, I maintain the transputer homepage at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1190 and I am looking for transputer software & documentation to add to my webpage. If anyone is willing to part with their transputer trams, boards, etc. Let me know, I will gladly take it from you. Ram From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Feb 26 12:10:11 1999 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (Mcfadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: New subscriber found TI Explorer, Rainbow 100, and Pro380 Message-ID: <119D55D6D69FD011AB9B000092966BB4054AF8@EXCHANGE2> I'm a new guy on this list from Kansas City. My biggest problem is my house doesn't have a basement or a garage, I keep my computer toys in the rec room under the Ping-Pong table. When the garage is built I'll have a computer spot for more stuff. I've been lurking in this group for awhile. I'm from the cardpunching/papertape reading generation of PDP8 and PDP11 types. Pre RSX-11M and RT-11. I wander into a not-for-profit computer surplus place every week. Recently I investigated the salvage room in the basement, they have lots of non PC and non Mac stuff there. Here is what I found I'm looking for more information about them. TI Explorer VME tower style machine external case dual full height 5 1/4 hard drives external case tape backup unit Might be a LISP machine TI doesn't seem to have and information about this machine on their web site. I found Usenet group ti.explorer with not much traffic. Rainbow 100 special DEC floppy DEC Pro 380 special DEC floppy and ST251 hard drive DEC PDP micro 11/23 in tower case Maybe I'll crosspost to alt.computers.pdp11. Glad to be aboard! mmcfadden@cmh.edu Real computer can run for months without crashing, all other kinds are only wannabe's. From mark_k at iname.com Fri Feb 26 11:23:36 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 WCS Message-ID: Hi, I thought I would type up a few paragraphs from "The Amiga System Programmer's Guide" published by Abacus, ISBN 1-55755-034-4 which relate to this. Amiga 1000 WOM -------------- The Amiga 1000 models have additional special features. Owners of these machines may be surprised that we keep talking about a Kickstart ROM, even though the Amiga 1000 loads the Kickstart from disk when it's turned on. The situation with the Amiga 1000 was the following: The hardware was done, the machines were ready to be sold, but the software in the form of the Kickstart operating system wasn't complete and still had some bugs in it. A decision was made to provide the Amiga with special RAM which would be loaded with the operating system when the computer was turned on. After this, the Amiga would prevent write accesses to this RAM, making it behave like a 256K ROM. Commodore called the WOM, or Write-Once Memory. Now the first Amigas could be delivered with the incomplete Kickstart 1.0. After the new Kickstart versions were complete (1.1 and 1.2), the Amiga owner simply had to insert new Kickstart disks. Since this WOM is naturally more expensive than a simple ROM, the Amiga 500 and 2000 are not equipped with it, since by then the final Kickstart (V1.2) was finished. The WOM raises some questions, however: Where is the program which loads Kickstart? How can Kickstart be changed, since it is RAM? Normally the Amiga 1000 operates just like the newer models, with Kickstart at $FC0000 to $FFFFFF with a mirror at $F80000. If you try to write into Kickstart, nothing happens. Write access is not possible. The boot ROM which loads Kickstart is also nowhere to be found in memory. The whole process is controlled by the reset line. After a reset, whether by turning the computer on, by pressing the Amiga, Commodore and Control keys or by executing a 68000 reset command, the memory configuration changes. Reset ----- Immediately after a reset, the boot ROM is at $F80000 (since on a reset the OVL line is set, the reset vector also comes from the boot ROM) and it is possible to write into Kickstart. It can be changed as desired! This condition holds only until you try to write something in the boot ROM range from $F80000 to $FBFFFF. Then the boot ROM is masked out again and the Kickstart memory is write-protected. In short: Reset keeps the Kickstart WOM in memory and enables the boot ROM. A write access to an address between $F80000 and $FBFFFF disables the write protection and the boot ROM. [This should read "enables the write protection and disables the boot ROM."] -- Mark From lfb107 at psu.edu Fri Feb 26 12:29:26 1999 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: NEC APCIII Message-ID: <199902261822.NAA156834@f04n07.cac.psu.edu> I had similar problems with my pair of APCIII's. Frustrated, and in need of extra space, I threw them out, but I managed to save most anything that wasn't permanently attached to the case. I've got a few of the memory boards that slid in the back as well as a few parallel cards I think. I also (think) that I have a few of those NLE cards that plugged in the front. The two that i had also had another smaller (memory?) card that plugged in to a special slot at the front, an external HD connector (and a HD.... SCSI?), and a special keyboard with special buttons for graphic functions. Not surprising since they booted up with the DOS 2.11 version of AutoCAD. I couldn't, for the life of me, get them to run anything else! If anyone needs any parts let me know, I haven't got much use for them. Les lfb107@psu.edu From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 26 12:45:14 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Looking for VMEbus module manuals In-Reply-To: <000501be61a9$8862dba0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> References: <4.1.19990222200335.009accb0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990226130526.009afa80@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:00 PM 2/26/99 -0500, Bill Sudbrink said something like: >> PS: Are there any of you out there who have VMEbus gear in your >> collection? >In our collection?!?! >Heck, VME bus systems are still being used for embedded system >development. We must have ten chassis (is that how it's spelled? >doesn't look right, anyway, boxes, card cages, whatever) in use >right now with various PowerPC, coldfire, 68K, etc. boards. Yep. In our collection. VMEbus, as you may for sure know Bill, was created around 1984 jointly by Motorola, Mostek and Philips/Signetics. It still is a popular system for embedded systems with extensions like VME64 in use. VMEbus is a stable, open standard. There are indeed older VMEbus modules from various manufacturers still in use after all these years. Many of those early modules, processor modules especially, have long been obsoleted and therefore are in my gunsights, so to speak. They can be had for fairly reasonable prices. Some time ago, I spent big bucks for an OS-9/68k license from Microware and have a small working MVME121 system. I've got several other processor modules. I have an MVME147S module I need to try to get running if Microware will sell me the OS-9 boot ROMs and software as an update to my '120 license (at a reasonable price :( ). That's the most up-to-date module I've got. About 1988 the '147 series was released. I think they're still sold today although with obviously updated hardware. Otherwise, I can probably write my own drivers with some effort but I'm _real_ rusty with OSK at the moment. I would still have to purchase NFS though to take advantage of the Ethernet port as that would be above my s/w capabilities. I also have an STDbus-based OSK system from XYZ Electronics. That was my first real exposure to OS-9/68k. Still works too. I'm into some of the industrial end of classic computing as that's what I've had to work with occasionally. I think Allison and a few others here know of this aspect of computing too and may even have a piece or two in their collection. I just got a Xycom XVME 682 which is a VMEbus PC/AT processor module. Sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it? The module is fully compatible with PC/AT software, not the hardware except for a local AT bus which connects with a sister I/O module that handles disks and video. So there's where the module name isn't quite oxymoronic. It's a 10 MHz 286 with 4 meg of RAM and CGA/EGA/MDA Herc. video. Gotta find a small VMEbus crate to get that thing running sometime. Runs M$DOS like any other AT class machine. Regards, Chris PS: 'Chassis' is correct. -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From chris.holden at gte.net Fri Feb 26 12:48:31 1999 From: chris.holden at gte.net (Chris Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! Message-ID: I happened upon your web site and noticed that the word "Beginning" is misspelled (you have it as "Begining"). The URL of the page is: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-06/msg00626.html I hope this helps. Chris From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 26 12:55:04 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Chris Holden wrote: > I happened upon your web site and noticed that the word "Beginning" is > misspelled (you have it as "Begining"). The URL of the page is: > http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-06/msg00626.html Sheesh. What a stickler. Do you walk around with a red pen correcting misspellings you see in your daily life too? ;) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From ss at allegro.com Fri Feb 26 12:56:11 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 WCS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199902261856.KAA12583@bart.allegro.com> Re: > After this, the Amiga would prevent write accesses to this RAM, making it behave like a 256K ROM. > Commodore called the WOM, or Write-Once Memory. Now the first Amigas could be > delivered with the incomplete Kickstart 1.0. After the new Kickstart versions > were complete (1.1 and 1.2), the Amiga owner simply had to insert new > Kickstart disks. I remember buying & installing a kit from somewhere, which was a ROM and a switch, which enabled me to either boot my 1000 as normal (i.e., insert the Kickstart disk) *or* boot with the ROM, and use that extra memory as system memory. The drawback to using it as system memory was, IIRC, that the graphics chips couldn't access it, so some special actions were sometimes called for (which, of course, I can't recall now). To install it, we opened the Amiga 1000, and pulled out some chip (ROM?) and replaced it with some kind of piggyback carrier (dim memories). What I remember clearly is that when we finished putting it back together (boy, was *that* a machine not intended for users to pull apart), we ended up with extra screws. So, we opened it up again and found places to put them...so successfully that when we got towards the end, we'd run out of screws too early. Sigh. From ss at allegro.com Fri Feb 26 13:03:27 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: References: <"B2FC2C7F.899F08(a)(091)208.252.94.70(093)*"@MHS> Message-ID: <199902261903.LAA21110@bart.allegro.com> Re: > > I happened upon your web site and noticed that the word "Beginning" is > > misspelled (you have it as "Begining"). The URL of the page is: > > http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-06/msg00626.html > > Sheesh. What a stickler. Do you walk around with a red pen correcting > misspellings you see in your daily life too? Better yet...his posting is going to be archived on Kevan's pages ... which means he'll (Chris) will have to submit a posting about the mispelling on *that*, which will trigger another posting...ad nauseum :) I'm a little puzzled...I followed his URL and don't find a "Begining" (note the capital "B"). There's an instance with a lowercase "b" ... but I'm wondering why the difference? Oh well :) From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 26 13:16:05 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: <199902261903.LAA21110@bart.allegro.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 ss@allegro.com wrote: > Re: > > > I happened upon your web site and noticed that the word "Beginning" is > > > misspelled (you have it as "Begining"). The URL of the page is: > > > http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-06/msg00626.html > > > > Sheesh. What a stickler. Do you walk around with a red pen correcting > > misspellings you see in your daily life too? > > Better yet...his posting is going to be archived on Kevan's pages ... > which means he'll (Chris) will have to submit a posting about the > mispelling on *that*, which will trigger another posting...ad nauseum > :) > > I'm a little puzzled...I followed his URL and don't find a "Begining" > (note the capital "B"). There's an instance with a lowercase "b" ... > but I'm wondering why the difference? Oh well :) The worst part is I couldn't find any spelling or grammar mistakes in Chris' message to come back at him with. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Fri Feb 26 13:45:59 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Need data sheet for 1101 RAM, 8008 Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8F4250D@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Dave Dameron wrote: > I did finally find a copy of "Microcomputer Design" > by Martin by interlibrary loan :). Abebooks, etc never found it. It is > loaded with 8008 stuff with things like all timing, a 9 chip 8008 system, > etc. They also sold the "Mike" series of microcomputer boards, but I have > never seen one except pictures in early Byte's. I also tried to find > Martin or his company (In Illinois), but no luck. > I actually bought a copy of Martin's wonderful book in 1976 (by mail, directly from Martin Research) for the then-enormous price of $25 (I was a poor grad student then rather than the poor wage-slave I am now). I have never seen another copy since in all my years of secondhand book browsing. It was, I guess, the first microprocessor book I ever acquired. Indeed, I'm wondering if it was the first-ever practical application manual for microprocessors published by someone other than the major chip vendors. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com From kevan at heydon.org Fri Feb 26 13:55:58 1999 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Chris Holden wrote: > I happened upon your web site and noticed that the word "Beginning" is > misspelled (you have it as "Begining"). The URL of the page is: > http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-06/msg00626.html > > I hope this helps. Sorry Chris, I am getting a little behind in spell checking all the archived messages posted to this list :-) -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Feb 26 14:13:23 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Chris Holden wrote: > I happened upon your web site and noticed that the word "Beginning" is > misspelled (you have it as "Begining"). The URL of the page is: > http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-06/msg00626.html > > I hope this helps. > > Chris > [It would 'help' if you hadn't posted this to a maillist, Chris] Ya know... s'funny. Of late (past month) I have recieved three or four unsolicited e-mails from various unknown folks, sort of along the same lines... "Hi, I stumbled onto your web page and I noticed that... [insert some percieved imperfection here]". Two of them were reporting 'broken links' that don't exist in the active portion of my page.... SO, IMHO... Mr. Holden is either conducting some wierd troll/spam gathering mission... or, someone **really** needs to get out into the fresh air more. Imagine.... a loosely organized group of social troglodytes, sifting thru the Web with blazing spellcheckers... ready to pounce at the hint of linguistic peccadillos... ever vigilant towards the horizon of typographical impecunities... and.... O! No! Look out fellows! There's a... a... Greengrocer's Apostrophe....!!! Tre cool, ne c'est pas? Ooo, mai oui!. Cheerz John PS: Hey Chris! I *meant* to mis-spell 'cheers'. Sue me. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Fri Feb 26 14:40:09 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope Message-ID: Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. Any pointers would be appreciated. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Fri Feb 26 15:20:29 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Feb 26, 99 12:13:23 pm Message-ID: <199902262120.NAA13230@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1070 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/39bbb74a/attachment.ksh From joe at barrera.org Fri Feb 26 15:13:40 1999 From: joe at barrera.org (Joseph S. Barrera III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! References: Message-ID: <021201be61cc$e22a2cb0$9ab8399d@dns.microsoft.com> > Tre cool, ne c'est pas? Ooo, mai oui!. You misspelled "Tres." ;-) From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Feb 26 15:39:34 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Looking for RT-11 Documentation Message-ID: <990226163934.21c0046d@trailing-edge.com> >>I have absolutely no RT-11 documentation, although I have two systems >>running it (both 11/23s). Does anyone have any online documentation on >>the command language, configuration, device drivers, sysgen, etc? I'm >>fumbling around without it. >There is no on-line documentation... if there is, I'm sure Mentec >would be a little bothered by it. Actually, an "on-line" version of the RT-11 mini ref nearly made it into the 5.7 release. Space considerations on the floppy distributions is what axed the idea in the end. And all the manuals are "on-line" here, just not publicly accessible :-(. > There might be HELP available on > the system, depending on the version and whether all the required > files are still there... If it's not there, then an web-accessible version of the same information (albeit for RT-11 5.7, the Y2K compliant version) is available from http://www.trailing-edge.com/~shoppa/rthelp/ or http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rthelp/ The second reference will be faster to view, though slower to type in :-) The above references have been available for well over a year and a half now. > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Gees, should I start signing myself "Tim Shoppa, Current RT-11 Developer, Former Nuclear Astrophysicist?" ? :-) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From Jgzabol at aol.com Fri Feb 26 15:41:43 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: IBM mainframes Message-ID: Does anyone have an idea what these IBM model numbers are like more precisely ?? 3380- AD/AE DL131 BE4 3380- AD/AE LK 3380- AD/AE LM135 AE4 3380 "E" DL 3380 "K" BP BK4 3380 "K" BP AK4 3380 "K" LM131 BK4 3380 "D" AD/AE KJ131 3380 "D" AD/AE JJ131 3390 "2" B2C 3390 "2" A28 I am particularly concerned about disks inside these machines; is there anything known ? Is any documentation available ? Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky From mikeford at netwiz.net Fri Feb 26 13:27:22 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226130526.009afa80@206.231.8.2> References: <000501be61a9$8862dba0$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> <4.1.19990222200335.009accb0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: Novice guide to old stuff. I disturbs me to think I have ever walked past something neat, and left it to rot or be loaded into a scrap bin. Outside of a fairly narrow scope of Apple products I don't know what I should be looking for. I would like to see some sort of guide to old stuff, maybe a half or quarter of a doubled sided laser printed sheet of paper, that ran down some of the items that are hard to find, which I could fold up and put in my wallet. Is there a short list, generic or specific? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 13:19:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:25 2005 Subject: CRT handling Was: Re: It's ALIVE! In-Reply-To: <80256724.00450CE3.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@PowerTech.co.uk" at Feb 26, 99 12:56:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3883 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/3eb51d9e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 12:57:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: V35-RS232 cable? In-Reply-To: <007a01be612f$8bb98120$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Feb 25, 99 08:33:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/ee3045b3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 13:24:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Feb 26, 99 08:07:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 726 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/9101b49f/attachment.ksh From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 26 16:21:58 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19990226171134.009d6dc0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:40 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail said something like: > >Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? >Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. Sometime just after the 3rd week of 1965. Rule for deciphering HP SN's in the above format as tought to me by a couple of different HP service engineers and other written sources: Take the numbers preceding the hyphen and add 6000. Result gives the first two digits as the year and the second pair is (usually) the week of production. Numbers after the hyphen are the serialized number. 1834A-xxxxxx is some unit built around 34th week of 1978, for example. Note the "A". Can't recall when, but the nation of manufacture is depicted by that alpha character. A is USA, J is Japan for example. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 26 18:27:21 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 & 4052 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990226182721.3b372a4a@intellistar.net> Philip, I'm posting this to the list so you can't say I didn't do my homework. I tracked down a 4051 that I saw mentioned on the web and asked about it. Here's their response: Greetings Joe, I have had your e-mail on my to do list for sometime but the alligators have been chasing me on other chores. Any how The tek 4051 is about 1976 vintage and it is only recently that we disposed of them to our surplus place. We had 4051, 4052 ,plotter, joystick and a printer. I still have all the manuals and microfiche for them I think. The address for our surplus unit is . I'm already working on trying to get the manuals and to find out about their surplus disposal. Joe From max82 at surfree.com Fri Feb 26 16:33:56 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Mike Ford wrote: >I disturbs me to think I have ever walked past something neat, and left it >to rot or be loaded into a scrap bin. Outside of a fairly narrow scope of >Apple products I don't know what I should be looking for. I would like to >see some sort of guide to old stuff, maybe a half or quarter of a doubled >sided laser printed sheet of paper, that ran down some of the items that >are hard to find, which I could fold up and put in my wallet. Is there a >short list, generic or specific? Just from hanging around this list, you should be able to pick up what machines are most generally coveted/respected/common/whatever. However, you should bring home everything _especially_ if you can't identify it. Remember, the stuff you can't identify is most likely to be something cool that all of us will then respect you for. Well, maybe not, but you'll get more hours of fun from it ;) --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 26 18:43:36 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990226184336.46a77a62@intellistar.net> At 12:40 PM 2/26/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? >Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. > >Any pointers would be appreciated. Well I can tell you that it was made in the 3rd week of 1965. It may be in my '68 catalog. I'll check next time I pull it out. Joe From bill at chipware.com Fri Feb 26 16:40:03 1999 From: bill at chipware.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701be61d8$f35b7500$bb88e9cf@yamato.chipware.com> Mike Ford wrote: > Novice guide to old stuff. > > I disturbs me to think I have ever walked past something neat, and left it > to rot or be loaded into a scrap bin. Outside of a fairly narrow scope of > Apple products I don't know what I should be looking for. I would like to > see some sort of guide to old stuff, maybe a half or quarter of a doubled > sided laser printed sheet of paper, that ran down some of the items that > are hard to find, which I could fold up and put in my wallet. Is there a > short list, generic or specific? Anything with "Ohio Scientific" written on it! If it turns out that you don't want it, I'll probably pay you to send it to me. Bill Sudbrink From cmcmanis at freegate.com Fri Feb 26 16:51:53 1999 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions Message-ID: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Howdy, I've taken delivery on two MicroVax II's, one is a model 630QY-A2 and the other is a 630QB-A2, the QY is basically a narrow cabinet and the QB is a wide cabinet. Both have 8MB and both have ethernet controllers. Both were stripped of drives although one still has a tape unit. (TK50? How can I tell?) Here are the questions: 1) I'd like to find a disk or two for these (they each have slots for four disks of the DU type.) what do I need to look for? Are there size limitations? 2) Can these things be booted over the network in a pinch? (one has no tape drive) 2b) Do these things have boot roms that are interactive ala ODT? Until I get disks is there anyway to verify that they work? 3) Would it make sense to combine the memory cards so that I have one 16MB VAX or should I leave it at two VAXen? 4) One has a busextender unit that goes to a non-DEC disk card labelled: "Wombat" (its a disk controller of some sort) with tag WQESD 2.8M SCD-RQD11/EC a) This is ESDI controller yes? b) It has four data connectors so four drives? c) Its in a different backplane UNIBUS perhaps? (quad height) Both machines internally appear to be in very good shape. Anyone have the "MicroVAX II 630 QB Technical Manual" ? All in all it wasn't a bad deal at $18 each. --Chuck From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 26 18:58:49 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226171134.009d6dc0@206.231.8.2> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990226185849.305f6590@intellistar.net> At 05:21 PM 2/26/99 -0500, Chris wrote: >Upon the date 12:40 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail said something like: >> >>Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? >>Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. > >Sometime just after the 3rd week of 1965. > >Rule for deciphering HP SN's in the above format as tought to me by a >couple of different HP service engineers and other written sources: > >Take the numbers preceding the hyphen and add 6000. Result gives the first >two digits as the year Add 6000? that would mean it was (will be?) built in the year 6005! No, add 1960 to the first two digits of a four digit prefix or add to the first digit of a three digit prefix. That means it was built in 1965. and the second pair is (usually) the week of >production. Numbers after the hyphen are the serialized number. >1834A-xxxxxx is some unit built around 34th week of 1978, for example. That's ALLMOST true. Actually the dates on most (all?) items are offset 8 weeks to allow for shipping and distribution and so the customer will think they're getting a BRAND NEW machine. Therefore 1834 would mean it was really built in the 26th week (34-8) of 1978 (1960+16) Note >the "A". Can't recall when, but the nation of manufacture is depicted by >that alpha character. A is USA, J is Japan for example. S=Singapore, K and Q = United Kingdom, M=Malaysia, I think C is Canada. BTW I've noticed that some limited production items all have the same prefix. It seems that HP orders labels in batchs and uses them until they're gone no matter what the actual date. For example I have a number of HP-IL accoustic MODEMS, ALL of them have the same prefix. I've talked to others that have the same MODEM and ALL of them have the same date. Joe From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Feb 26 17:01:54 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Feb 26, 1999 11:27:22 am" Message-ID: <199902262301.RAA07230@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > Novice guide to old stuff. > > I disturbs me to think I have ever walked past something neat, and left it > to rot or be loaded into a scrap bin. Outside of a fairly narrow scope of > Apple products I don't know what I should be looking for. I would like to > see some sort of guide to old stuff, maybe a half or quarter of a doubled > sided laser printed sheet of paper, that ran down some of the items that > are hard to find, which I could fold up and put in my wallet. Is there a > short list, generic or specific? > Anything with the word Terak on it, that isnt from Star Trek Deep Space Nine, is a collectable. Anything with an 8" floppy drive is a collectable. Anything you recognize, but looks a little strange (An Apple ][ with a black case, for example) is a collectable. Anything else, will be a collectable in a few years. -Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 16:38:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Feb 26, 99 11:27:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/fdb39cf5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 16:40:13 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 26, 99 12:40:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/02194708/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 26 19:10:57 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990226191057.3b37bdde@intellistar.net> Got a second Altair today. No serial number and missing a capcitor in the power supply but otherwise it looks like it's in perfect condition. Joe From ss at allegro.com Fri Feb 26 17:22:39 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990226191057.3b37bdde@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199902262322.PAA28805@bart.allegro.com> Joe (aka "too lucky") writes: > Got a second Altair today. No serial number and missing a capcitor in the > power supply but otherwise it looks like it's in perfect condition. No serial number? Probably a worthless fake. I'd be happy to take it off your hands for shipping costs :) Stan From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 26 17:55:35 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Fri, 26 Feb 1999 14:51:53 -0800) References: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <19990226235535.18196.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > Both machines internally appear to be in very good shape. Anyone have the > "MicroVAX II 630 QB Technical Manual" ? I don't have that one, but I did (*finally*, after years of wanting one) manage to get a KA630 CPU Module User's Manual (probably not the exact title since that's from memory). Now I need to find a similar manual for the KA650 and/or KA655. Speaking of such things, can anyone explain how the memory cards in a MicroVAX II or III know where to map themselves? They don't have DIP switches or jumpers, and neither the backplane nor the ribbon cable seem to provide any distinct signals per slot, except maybe bus grant and I don't see how they would use that. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 17:06:25 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990226185849.305f6590@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 26, 99 06:58:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 967 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990226/e55c0aaa/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Feb 26 18:13:45 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. Message-ID: <199902270013.AA19737@world.std.com> <> > PS: If 'RYRYRYRYRYRYRY....' means anything to you... that is the <> > kind of gear I've bought from him. :) Standard TTY test pattern. RY is the extreme opposite in the machanics of a ASR/KSR33. IF you can do a string of RYs without error then the reader/punch/printer is good. The gig is to punch a length of RYs long enough to loop into the reader and then read it on local. If it's a good machine it will keep punching RYs and if in need of adjustment or cleaning... the rys get translated to something else. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 26 18:19:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: <199902270013.AA19737@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 26, 99 07:13:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/314be498/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Fri Feb 26 18:52:41 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions Message-ID: <19990227005305.AAA2895@1Cust62.tnt21.dfw5.da.uu.net> Hi Chuck, ---------- > From: Chuck McManis > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: uVax II questions > Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 3:51 PM > > Howdy, I've taken delivery on two MicroVax II's, one is a model 630QY-A2 > and the other is a 630QB-A2, the QY is basically a narrow cabinet and the > QB is a wide cabinet. Both have 8MB and both have ethernet controllers. Ethernet is fine ;-)) Most common on the MVII is the DEQNA. > Both were stripped of drives although one still has a tape unit. (TK50? How > can I tell?) TK50 has a bigger button with a LED in it, TK70 has a small button and three LED's. > Here are the questions: > > 1) I'd like to find a disk or two for these (they each have slots for four > disks of the DU type.) what do I need to look for? Standard were the RD51/RD52/RD53/RD54 disks. You would be lucky to find some of these. The controller is RQDX.. The biggest of these disks is the rd54, which is appr. 150MB. You can buy a SCSI controller for it (appr $1000) ESDI controllers & disks are the cheapest. (my opinion ;-)) Once again, the controller is expensive, appr. $100-200. Disks are $0-100, which is appr 70-660MB. > Are there size limitations? Budget. ;-)) > 2) Can these things be booted over the network in a pinch? (one has no tape > drive) If you try to use NetBSD, is ok. But you need a host for the files... In case you don't know, there is a hobbyist VMS out there, no cost. But the CD is sold out, new one comes in March (?) So If you like to use VMS, you should aske the group about tapes... > 2b) Do these things have boot roms that are interactive ala ODT? a little like ... > Until I get disks is there anyway to verify that they work? Netboot. > 3) Would it make sense to combine the memory cards so that I have one 16MB > VAX or should I leave it at two VAXen? What you wrote, is that you have 8 MB on each. If it is one board, you need the cable & you can use two of them in one system. If you have already two memory boards in each, bad. Than you got the 4MB boards. > 4) One has a busextender unit that goes to a non-DEC disk card labelled: > "Wombat" (its a disk controller of some sort) with tag WQESD 2.8M > SCD-RQD11/EC > > a) This is ESDI controller yes? Guess so. (You are lucky !!!) There are other here on this group, who use them. > b) It has four data connectors so four drives? > c) Its in a different backplane UNIBUS perhaps? (quad height) ??? Should be all q-bus. > All in all it wasn't a bad deal at $18 each. Yes. But you can get them for free already. cheers, emanuel From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Feb 26 19:41:35 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: More Re: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <19990227005305.AAA2895@1Cust62.tnt21.dfw5.da.uu.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990226172541.00c93d10@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Hi Emanuel, Thanks for the info. It seems the RDxx drives are MFM? Both MicroVAXes appear to have ESDI controllers in them which appears to be a bonus. Both were built in 1985 so they qualify using the 10 year rule :-) So what, if anything, should appear on the console when you turn on a Microvax that has no disks connected ? The little display on the back seems to go from '6' to '7' and stay there, or perhaps to 'L'. Which side is up? Also there are two knobs next to the console port, one is clearly the baud rate and the other has three positions, each position is identified by a pictograph. The three pictures are top - line connected to a triangle (arrow?) middle - looks like a face in profile bottom - a T inscribed in a circle. Then there is a paddle switch above that whose positions are identified with a circle and a dot inside the circle, and another position where the dot is outside the circle. Which should it be? Thanks! --Chuck From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 26 19:37:57 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: SN clarification Was: Re: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990226185849.305f6590@intellistar.net> References: <4.1.19990226171134.009d6dc0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19990226201933.009db6f0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 06:58 PM 2/26/99 +0000, Joe said something like: >At 05:21 PM 2/26/99 -0500, Chris wrote: >>Upon the date 12:40 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail said something like: >>> >>>Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? >>>Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. >> >>Sometime just after the 3rd week of 1965. >> >>Rule for deciphering HP SN's in the above format as tought to me by a >>couple of different HP service engineers and other written sources: >> >>Take the numbers preceding the hyphen and add 6000. Result gives the first >>two digits as the year > > Add 6000? that would mean it was (will be?) built in the year 6005! No, The result obtained after adding 6000 must not be construed as still being a calendar year date. 6000 + 503 still equals 6503 or the 3rd week of 1965. 6000 + 1834 equals 7834, 34th week of '78. 60 is the number to add to the first _two_ digits of the four digit number. I should have said to use the 60 thing which is the other way we were instructed how to decipher the date. >add 1960 to the first two digits of a four digit prefix or add to the first >digit of a three digit prefix. That means it was built in 1965. 1960 added to the first two digits is the number stated in an HP document I recall from way back when which is yet another way HP instructed customers how to decipher the SN. > >and the second pair is (usually) the week of >>production. Numbers after the hyphen are the serialized number. >>1834A-xxxxxx is some unit built around 34th week of 1978, for example. > > That's ALLMOST true. Actually the dates on most (all?) items are offset The week digits are the week date the number was assigned to the production item. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 26 20:37:38 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: OT: WTB Colorado T3000 tape drive Message-ID: <4.1.19990226213329.009e2bf0@206.231.8.2> For those still with me here, I'm looking for a used but functional T3000 tape drive. Reply off list please. Wanted to check with the group for something available first to keep the business "in the family" :) Thanks, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 26 21:20:31 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: >Both were stripped of drives although one still has a tape unit. (TK50? How >can I tell?) Is it completely plain? If so it's a TK50. Yeh, I know that's vague. >1) I'd like to find a disk or two for these (they each have slots for four >disks of the DU type.) what do I need to look for? Are there size limitations? Depends on the controller. If using a RQDX3 you're limited to DEC disks, or at least disks that have been made to look DEC. >2) Can these things be booted over the network in a pinch? (one has no tape >drive) Hmmm, I think so. My VAXstation II/RC was trying to do this when I got it. Same basic computer. >2b) Do these things have boot roms that are interactive ala ODT? Until I >get disks is there anyway to verify that they work? The ROMS on a MV2 aren't very smart. Check here for a lot of answers to your questions. http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html >3) Would it make sense to combine the memory cards so that I have one 16MB >VAX or should I leave it at two VAXen? If it was me, I'd do that and use the other cabinet for a PDP-11, but that assumes you need a cabinet for a PDP-11. >4) One has a busextender unit that goes to a non-DEC disk card labelled: > "Wombat" (its a disk controller of some sort) with tag WQESD 2.8M > SCD-RQD11/EC > > a) This is ESDI controller yes? > b) It has four data connectors so four drives? > c) Its in a different backplane UNIBUS perhaps? (quad height) Wierd, I've got mine plugged directly into the backplane. WUESD I think is the designation of the UNIBUS version. You've got the Q-Bus version, it's an AWSOME card! It will run 4 ESDI drives, and has all kinds of cool features. >All in all it wasn't a bad deal at $18 each. Good haul, the WQESD makes it definitly worth it. ESDI drives are easy to find cheap, though it might take some time. Their definitly better to use than the MFM drives that are standard on the MVII's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 26 23:50:20 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: SN clarification Was: Re: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226201933.009db6f0@206.231.8.2> References: <3.0.1.16.19990226185849.305f6590@intellistar.net> <4.1.19990226171134.009d6dc0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990226235020.30776172@intellistar.net> At 08:37 PM 2/26/99 -0500, you wrote: >Upon the date 06:58 PM 2/26/99 +0000, Joe said something like: >>At 05:21 PM 2/26/99 -0500, Chris wrote: >>>Upon the date 12:40 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail said something like: >>>> >>>>Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? >>>>Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. >>> > > >1960 added to the first two digits ONLY if it's a four digit prefix! Look at the serial number on Sam's scope, do you think it was made in 2010? (1960 + 50) Use only the first digit if it's a three digit number, as Sam's is. is the number stated in an HP document I >recall from way back when which is yet another way HP instructed customers >how to decipher the SN. > >> >>and the second pair is (usually) the week of >>>production. Numbers after the hyphen are the serialized number. >>>1834A-xxxxxx is some unit built around 34th week of 1978, for example. >> >> That's ALLMOST true. Actually the dates on most (all?) items are offset > >The week digits are the week date the number was assigned to the production >item. > Not if you read the service manuals. All of the ones that I've read that give the date break down specificly state that the actual production date is 8 weeks ahead of the date in the serial number. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 26 21:53:17 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Ya know... s'funny. Of late (past month) I have recieved three or ^^^^^^^^ "I" before "E" except after "C". Sorry, couldn't resist, I'm probably one of the worst spellers around here :^) >gathering mission... or, someone **really** needs to get out into >the fresh air more. This gets my vote. I mean, get real, sending a message to a mail list that an archived message from June of 98 has a misspelled word (now why didn't he mention "sunmarine"). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 26 21:48:59 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions Message-ID: <199902270348.AA16331@world.std.com> >Howdy, I've taken delivery on two MicroVax II's, one is a model 630QY-A2 >and the other is a 630QB-A2, the QY is basically a narrow cabinet and the >QB is a wide cabinet. Both have 8MB and both have ethernet controllers. >Both were stripped of drives although one still has a tape unit. (TK50? >How can I tell?) Narrow cabinet vs. wide cabinet? Sounds like a BA23 vs. BA123 cabinet. >1) I'd like to find a disk or two for these (they each have slots for >four disks of the DU type.) what do I need to look for? Are there size >limitations? But with four slots, they both must be BA123 -- by the way, there should be a total of 5 slots... four horizontal on the right side (with the top one being the TK50), and one vertical on the left side for the RX50 (but you can put an RX33 there as well). What to look for? If you can get an MSCP controller (RQDX1, 2, 3), you'll need RD series disks. Max of 159 MB. If you have a third-party interface, probably much larger. I have a machine with 2GB DSSI disks, and another machine with a 770 MB ESDI disk. As for TK50, it has one large red switch on the right side and one small green LED on the left. The TK70 has a smaller switch on the right side and three LEDs. >2) Can these things be booted over the network in a pinch? (one has no >tape drive) Yes, so long as you have another machine set up to serve the files to it. >2b) Do these things have boot roms that are interactive ala ODT? Until I >get disks is there anyway to verify that they work? Sure do... and with NVram, you can also establish default settings for language and boot device. >3) Would it make sense to combine the memory cards so that I have one >16MB VAX or should I leave it at two VAXen? Depends on how many memory cards are in each machine. If that is 8MB in two cards (4MB each), then no. You'll need larger capacity memory cards. Max is 16MB in two cards (of 8 MB each). >4) One has a busextender unit that goes to a non-DEC disk card labelled: >"Wombat" (its a disk controller of some sort) with tag WQESD 2.8M >SCD-RQD11/EC *Very* nice... makes your deal quite a good one... > a) This is ESDI controller yes? > b) It has four data connectors so four drives? > c) Its in a different backplane UNIBUS perhaps? (quad height) Different bus? If they are BA123s, there should only be one backplane which is quad high... >Both machines internally appear to be in very good shape. Anyone have the > "MicroVAX II 630 QB Technical Manual" ? Yes... but I don't want to part with it... contact me off list. >All in all it wasn't a bad deal at $18 each. Not at all... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Feb 26 21:51:33 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Feb 26, 99 02:51:53 pm Message-ID: <199902270351.TAA00782@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi Chuck/List: > Howdy, I've taken delivery on two MicroVax II's, one is a model 630QY-A2 > and the other is a 630QB-A2, the QY is basically a narrow cabinet and the > QB is a wide cabinet. Both have 8MB and both have ethernet controllers. > Both were stripped of drives although one still has a tape unit. (TK50? How > can I tell?) Likely a TK50, as the TK70 (newer) drive say "TK70" on the front panel. TK50 has a 3" by 1" slot (approx), and one red button on the right hand side of the drive. You could also tell by getting the M number of the controller. > 1) I'd like to find a disk or two for these (they each have slots for four > disks of the DU type.) what do I need to look for? Are there size limitations? Generally an older MFM disk. These work with the semi-standard RQDX3 controller. Micropolis 1325, 1355, or similar. 100 or 300 MB approximately. You can also use ESDI disks but you'll need an Emulex QD21 controller. If you find some SMD drives, then an Emulex QD32 or QD33 will work really well. There are SCSI controllers but they're expensive and very hard to find. > 2) Can these things be booted over the network in a pinch? (one has no tape > drive) Sure. Just say B XQA0 at the chevron ( >>> ) prompt. Of course you'll have to have another machine set up to boot from. I've booted my Microvax II into both VMS and NetBSD this way. > 3) Would it make sense to combine the memory cards so that I have one 16MB > VAX or should I leave it at two VAXen? With memory more is usually better, but you can get good mileage out of 8 MB so leave it alone until there's need to expand. It depends as well on how the memory is linked to the CPU board, there is a separate bus for some cards. Best to leave it at 8 MB until you learn more. > All in all it wasn't a bad deal at $18 each. I'll say. Great deal! Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Feb 27 00:33:55 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. Message-ID: <01be621b$26413800$ce9ba6d1@the-general> This one has 2.11. It half-boots from the HD then locks. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Computer Room Internet Cafe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Another NEC APCIII question. >-----Original Message----- >From: Jason Willgruber >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Friday, 26 February 1999 15:06 >Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. > > >>I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... >> >>Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? > >Yeah, I think it does. > >>If so, what version? I > >3.3 IIRC. >I've got one here somewhere, I'll dig it out over the weekend and have a >look. >I might be able to do you a disk image of the boot disk. >>tried 5.0, and it won't work. > >I think only the NEC 'version' of the OS will work. > >Cheers >Geoff Roberts >Computer Room Internet Cafe >Port Pirie >South Australia. >netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au > > From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Feb 27 00:37:31 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. Message-ID: <01be621b$a70c6900$ce9ba6d1@the-general> >The APC III was not IBM compatible at all in it's original form. It had a >special version of DOS and the floppy drives are _Quad_ density not double >density. > Not at all??? It's got an AMD 8086 and a Intel 8087 directly on the motherboard. About the only thing that I can see that is non-standard is the bus archetecture. It's got a standard (looking) floppy, and an MFM (or RLL) HD. >When NEC later saw the error of their ways, they offered a special card >called an SLE that when installed allowed the machine to run standard IBM >compatible software. This came with another version of DOS, which I think >was also specific to this machine for booting purposes. SLE stood for >Software Library Extender. > >I think the special card had it's own 8088 cpu. > >APC III's were heavily marketed here in Australia and were once very easy to >find. I have a number in deep storage (ie too deep to get out and look at >easily). NEC also provided financial incentives for software developers here >and I have come across several cases of startup companies built on these >incentives, all now gone though. > >I think NEC learned about compatibility the hard way. > >To get your machine going the first question is whether you have the SLE >card or not. >The second question is whether you have the correct monitor. I don't think >normal IBM style monitors will work. > It's got either an CGA or EGA (made by NEC) on it. It works on an old Tandy 1000, so, I'd say the monitor is standard. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 26 21:53:41 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions References: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <199902270353.AA18495@world.std.com> >Speaking of such things, can anyone explain how the memory cards in a >MicroVAX II or III know where to map themselves? They don't have DIP >switches or jumpers, and neither the backplane nor the ribbon cable >seem to provide any distinct signals per slot, except maybe bus grant and >I don't see how they would use that. Basically, the address is passed to the first board. If the address is in the range it can handle, it responds and that's it. If not, it subtracts its size from the address and passes it on to the next board. If the modified address is within the range of memory you have installed, eventually one of the boards will see the address as an address between zero and it's size, and respond. If no board responds (and the address falls off the end, so to speak), then the processor times out and you get a non-existent memory response/trap. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From roblwill at usaor.net Sat Feb 27 00:41:21 1999 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: NEC APCIII Message-ID: <01be621c$3006a220$ce9ba6d1@the-general> How much would you want for the parts? I'm trying to get this computer running for a school project (the computer belongs to my school) I was just wondering --- Could I have an APC IV? Three of the teachers that have seen it have either called it an APC IV, or "The pain in the neck". Some of the descriptions that I've seen don't sound like the computer I have. Although it does say "APCIII" on the front panel. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 -----Original Message----- From: Les Berry To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: NEC APCIII > >I had similar problems with my pair of APCIII's. Frustrated, and in >need of extra space, I threw them out, but I managed to save most >anything that wasn't permanently attached to the case. I've got a >few of the memory boards that slid in the back as well as a few >parallel cards I think. I also (think) that I have a few of those NLE >cards that plugged in the front. The two that i had also had another >smaller (memory?) card that plugged in to a special slot at the front, >an external HD connector (and a HD.... SCSI?), and a special keyboard >with special buttons for graphic functions. Not surprising since they >booted up with the DOS 2.11 version of AutoCAD. I couldn't, for >the life of me, get them to run anything else! If anyone needs any parts >let me know, I haven't got much use for them. > >Les >lfb107@psu.edu > > From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 26 21:58:51 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: More Re: uVax II questions Message-ID: <199902270358.AA20609@world.std.com> >So what, if anything, should appear on the console when you turn on a >Microvax that has no disks connected ? The little display on the back >seems to go from '6' to '7' and stay there, or perhaps to 'L'. Which side >is up? It should count down from 7 to 3 and wait there for console input, unless the boot device has been specified -- then it continues counting down as it accesses the boot disk. If it reaches zero, it will boot. >Also there are two knobs next to the console port, one is clearly the >baud rate and the other has three positions, each position is identified >by a pictograph. The three pictures are > top - line connected to a triangle (arrow?) > middle - looks like a face in profile > bottom - a T inscribed in a circle. The top one is the normal position. The middle one is for the boot dialog regarding language and boot device. The bottom one is continuous test. >Then there is a paddle switch above that whose positions are identified >with a circle and a dot inside the circle, and another position where the >dot is outside the circle. Which should it be? This enables (dot in circle) or disables (dot outside circle) the halt on break feature. Normal position is dot outside circle, you don't want someone to halt a time-sharing system when other users are on it. But if you're the only user (/owner), then you probably want to have total control... unless you find you accidently hit BREAK too often... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Feb 26 22:02:49 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <199902270353.AA18495@world.std.com> (mbg@world.std.com) References: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <199902270353.AA18495@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990227040249.19376.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: >> Speaking of such things, can anyone explain how the memory cards in a >> MicroVAX II or III know where to map themselves? They don't have DIP Megan replied: > Basically, the address is passed to the first board. If the address is > in the range it can handle, it responds and that's it. If not, it > subtracts its size from the address and passes it on to the next board. > If the modified address is within the range of memory you have installed, > eventually one of the boards will see the address as an address between > zero and it's size, and respond. If no board responds (and the address > falls off the end, so to speak), then the processor times out and you > get a non-existent memory response/trap. This would make sense to me if the wiring was such that there were separate address busses from the CPU to the first memory card, the first memory card to the second memory card, etc. But as far as I can tell, all of the signals are simply bussed in parallel to all of the memory cards. That's what I find baffling. Obviously there is a very simple explanation which I am overlooking. From mbg at world.std.com Fri Feb 26 22:18:05 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions References: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <199902270353.AA18495@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902270418.AA00551@world.std.com> >This would make sense to me if the wiring was such that there were >separate address busses from the CPU to the first memory card, the first >memory card to the second memory card, etc. >But as far as I can tell, all of the signals are simply bussed in >parallel to all of the memory cards. That's what I find baffling. I simplified a little. There are some extra signals which are also bussed which carry info between boards... like whether the address was handled by the first board or not. If so, then the second doesn't respond. If not, then the second does the address adjustment and see if it should respond. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mew_jac at swbell.net Fri Feb 26 22:38:44 1999 From: mew_jac at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: schematics useful to anyone References: <990226163934.21c0046d@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <36D776D4.2818@swbell.net> Folks, I have photocopies of TI 99/4A schematics and two or three revs of the corvus concept. Would these be useful to anyone? Regards, Mitch Wright From marvin at rain.org Fri Feb 26 22:45:42 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Disk Drives References: <199902222009.PAA13064@mail.cgocable.net> <36D20DA0.8F9247FD@rain.org> Message-ID: <36D77876.DDD6C046@rain.org> I went over and picked up the drives that he had. The quantities, numbers on the boxes and other information on the drives are: 4 ea - 1568 (no dashes after number), ESDI, Capacity 760MB 2 still sealed in box, 2 with box open, black case. 2 ea - 1518 (no dashes after number) 2 ea - 1518-15 4 ea - 1538 (no dashes after number) 8 ea - 1558 (no dashes after number) With the exception of the 2 1568 drives, all are in boxes that appear to have been sealed at the factory. The Micropolis QC Stamp is dated 1997. The drives that had been opened were in anti-static bags, surrounded by a cardboard liner/protector, and held in place in the box with the white styrofoam inserts. The price he wanted was $10 each. Shipping weight (by my scale) would be 10 pounds. At the same time, I picked up some (15?) 100 MB IBM SCSI drives w/ the 50 pin header style connector on the end. They were packed in a padded container, but the few drives I pulled out had the anti-static bags opened. These also are supposed to be brand new, working drives. He wants $10 each for them. If anyone is interested, let me know as I plan on taking them down to TRW swap meet tomorrow. I have the email from those of you who wanted some of the Micropolis drives, and assuming you still want them, they are yours. Shipping will be from zip 93105. Anyone who is interested in the drives, let me know by private email. I plan on returning the ones that nobody wanted back to him towards the end of next week. Thanks. From fauradon at pclink.com Fri Feb 26 23:44:56 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Ooops, Typo! Message-ID: <001201be6214$4f552280$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Yeah and it's "n'est ce pas" and "mais oui" Oh well I can't help it I'm from France -----Original Message----- From: Joseph S. Barrera III To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Ooops, Typo! >> Tre cool, ne c'est pas? Ooo, mai oui!. > >You misspelled "Tres." ;-) > From marvin at rain.org Sat Feb 27 00:30:30 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Disk Drives References: <199902222009.PAA13064@mail.cgocable.net> <36D20DA0.8F9247FD@rain.org> <36D77876.DDD6C046@rain.org> Message-ID: <36D79106.6AAC3530@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > > I went over and picked up the drives that he had. The quantities, numbers on > the boxes and other information on the drives are: > > 4 ea - 1568 (no dashes after number), ESDI, Capacity 760MB > 2 still sealed in box, 2 with box open, black case. At this point, all the 1568s are spoken for. I don't know if more will be available or not, but if anyone is interested, let me know. Thanks! > 2 ea - 1518 (no dashes after number) > 2 ea - 1518-15 > 4 ea - 1538 (no dashes after number) > 8 ea - 1558 (no dashes after number) From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Feb 27 00:58:49 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: OT Re: Ooops, Typo! In-Reply-To: <001201be6214$4f552280$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Francois wrote: > Yeah and it's "n'est ce pas" and "mais oui" > Oh well I can't help it I'm from France > Uh-oh... not only have I left typos in a message chiding a spelling-cop, but I have now insulted all the Francophones on the List. This will teach me to write scathing sarcastic flames while at work and talking on two phones at once *and* with people waiting in my office to see me.... Whine whine whine. And: off topic, too. On topic: Southern California TRW swapmeet Saturday, the 27th, 7:30 to 11:30... see archived posts for directions. Sigh. Lo siento mucho, amigos. Chz John From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 27 01:01:13 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <199902270418.AA00551@world.std.com> (mbg@world.std.com) References: <4.1.19990226143834.00a2e2f0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <199902270353.AA18495@world.std.com> <199902270418.AA00551@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990227070113.19889.qmail@brouhaha.com> Megan further explained my uVAX II question: > There are some extra signals which are also bussed which carry info > between boards... like whether the address was handled by the first > board or not. If so, then the second doesn't respond. If not, then > the second does the address adjustment and see if it should respond. OK, except that I still don't understand. It looks like ALL of the signals are bussed straight across, except the bus grant. So I still don't see how the first card knows that it is first, and why the second card doesn't erroneously think that it is first. From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 27 02:21:54 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I think I have a candidate for the first computer with blinkenlights. This is from David Richie's The Computer Pioneers: << As he sat in his kitchen, one November evening in 1937, [...] Stibitz went into his workshop, took some relays salvaged from Bell Labs' junk pile, [...] and devised a few circuits. Input consisted of strips of metal cut from coffee cans. Output was a pair of flashlights bulbs that lit up or stayed dark to indicate the results of binary calculations. >> Stibitz is generally credited with creating one of the first digital computers. I think this date is earlier than both Zuse's Z1 (1938) and Atanasoff's ABC (1939), so I guess blinkenlights were there from the start! -- Doug From Jgzabol at aol.com Sat Feb 27 07:02:46 1999 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights Message-ID: <197a4764.36d7ecf6@aol.com> Doug wrote: << OK, I think I have a candidate for the first computer with blinkenlights. This is from David Richie's The Computer Pioneers: << As he sat in his kitchen, one November evening in 1937, [...] Stibitz went into his workshop, took some relays salvaged from Bell Labs' junk pile, [...] and devised a few circuits. Input consisted of strips of metal cut from coffee cans. Output was a pair of flashlights bulbs that lit up or stayed dark to indicate the results of binary calculations. >> Stibitz is generally credited with creating one of the first digital computers. I think this date is earlier than both Zuse's Z1 (1938) and Atanasoff's ABC (1939), so I guess blinkenlights were there from the start! >> Now that is really thorough digging! Good find, thank you. John G. Zabolitzky From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Sat Feb 27 07:10:11 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. Message-ID: <001c01be6252$821977a0$423ac018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> >>The APC III was not IBM compatible at all in it's original form. It had a >>special version of DOS and the floppy drives are _Quad_ density not double >>density. >> >Not at all??? It's got an AMD 8086 and a Intel 8087 directly on the >motherboard. > >About the only thing that I can see that is non-standard is the bus >archetecture. It's got a standard (looking) floppy, and an MFM (or RLL) HD. > Having familiar looking hardware doesn't mean it is IBM compatible. It was the bios that counted in those days. NEC did it's own thing here rather than go to Phoenix. From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Sat Feb 27 07:18:29 1999 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: NEC APCIII Message-ID: <002301be6253$aabd68a0$423ac018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> > >I was just wondering --- Could I have an APC IV? Three of the teachers that >have seen it have either called it an APC IV, or "The pain in the neck". >Some of the descriptions that I've seen don't sound like the computer I >have. Although it does say "APCIII" on the front panel. >-- The APC III's and IV's look much the same. If anything the III looks more modern as it is a smaller neater case, but it dates from 1984. The IV's are 286's and are fully IBM compatible with a Phoenix based bios. They have a normal ISA bus while the III's have different shaped cards that are installed in horizontal slots. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 09:05:39 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Last call, Teledisk Pro group buy Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> This is the last call for folks interested in pooling resources to get a copy of Teledisk Pro. So far, counting myself, we've got nine people in on it. This dropped the per-person price down to around $17.00 each (shipping included). Sydex was willing to go along with the group buy on two conditions: First, that there be one central point of contact (a person) that they can encode the copy to; And second, that this same person be POC for all tech support questions. I have volunteered to be this POC. Given that the license would be for up to 25 users, we have sixteen slots left. In the event we actually do get 25 people interested, it will drop the per-person price down to around $6.00. For those that may not know, Teledisk is a marvelously handy utility that will read any floppy format that can be read using PC-based hardware, including PCs equipped with such hardware as the well-known 'CompatiCard,' and turn the data on said floppy into a single image file that can be archived or sent to anyone else. Once sent, anyone with similar hardware can reconstruct an exact image of the original floppy using a freely redistributable extractor program. As one might imagine, this has a lot of possibilities for preserving old boot and application floppies for such things as KayPro's, Commodores, Apples, DEC hardware, and God only knows how many other pieces of gear that used floppies. The image files can be easily stored on long-lived media, such as CD-R discs, and recreated at will. Again, the only limitation is that a PC's floppy drive be able to, at the hardware level, read the original diskette. The current version runs under DOS, or under a DOS window in W95 or NT Workstation. One caveat: Since it is possible that the program makes direct hardware calls to the floppy drive, it may not perform as it should under NT, thanks to NT's security features. Other than that, I know of no problems. Will anyone else who may be interested in getting in on the group buy please drop me a PRIVATE E-mail, so we don't end up cluttering the list? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From fauradon at pclink.com Sat Feb 27 09:25:23 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II Message-ID: <004a01be6265$8f3840c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Fine, I got a complete PCjr with pretty much all of the peripherals ever made for it, two joysticks, color monitor, a box of software and the carrying case. So there! Francois >Got a second Altair today. No serial number and missing a capcitor in the >power supply but otherwise it looks like it's in perfect condition. > > Joe > From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 09:43:30 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter Message-ID: Good Morning, Today, I saw an interesting typewriter from the late '70s/early '80s called a Hermes 51 Level 4. It's an enormous 135-column daisy wheel with erasing tape. What is interesting about it is that it has an external disk drive, connected to it with an extremely thick cable. The drive is called a 'microdisk' according to the reference card. It allows storage of text. Looks like a scaled-down VHS tape rewinder. I have never seen any disk that might fit it. Does anyone know anything about this machine? This might be one of the first 'word processor' typewriters. It also has a green LED display and a light-and-mirror system to make sure the operator can easily read the paper as it is being printed. BTW: I also saw a Rainbow 100. Anything distinguishing it from any other CPM/MS-DOS machine? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 27 10:10:32 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) Message-ID: <19990227160811373.AAA218@fuj03> In case it's of interest to anyone, I found the (5-1/4") CP/M boot diskette for my TS806's. What's the best way to make this available to those who want it? I'm not sure I can dupe it without setting up one of the machines? I could do that I guess, but am inclined to let sleeping dogs lie . . . . Dick ---------- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:16 PM > > Perhaps I can help . . . I have a couple of TS806's sans HDD. Any > interest? > > regards, > > Dick > > ---------- > > From: Doug Auerbach > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > Subject: Wanted: TeleVideo CP/M machine(s) > > Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 9:01 PM > > > > Greetings, > > > > I'm looking for a TeleVideo CP/M machine, particularly the TS-803 or > > TS-1603. If you have one of these computers, or one similar to this one > > (not including the portable), I'd be interesting in buying it. Or, if > you > > have suggestions on where else I might look for one, I'd really > appreciate > > it. These were great machines, but they're hard to find now! > > > > Actually, I may be interested in two of these, if they're available. > This > > may turn into a crazy project, but I have the idea of taking one of them > and > > replacing the guts with a standard PC motherboard/hd/ram/power supply > > combination to run Linux on it. The TeleVideo 803/1603 has a unique > case, > > which would make for a great looking computer even today. The trick > would > > be maitaining compatibility with the keyboard cable and monitor; not to > > mention fitting the components inside reliably. But what a coup it would > > be! > > > > Thanks. I'm in the Seattle area, fwiw. > > > > > > Doug Auerbach > > From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 27 10:12:44 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:26 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. Message-ID: <199902271612.AA24718@world.std.com> <> Standard TTY test pattern. < <> RY is the extreme opposite in the machanics of a ASR/KSR33. IF you can < Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > Just from hanging around this list, you should be able to pick up what > machines are most generally coveted/respected/common/whatever. However, > you should bring home everything _especially_ if you can't identify it. > Remember, the stuff you can't identify is most likely to be something cool > that all of us will then respect you for. Well, maybe not, but you'll get > more hours of fun from it ;) Max, I would not recommend picking up just anything if you are a novice. You may end up bringing home plenty of unintersting PC clones. For a novice collector, your best bet for getting good at identifying computers you find in your excursions is to do web searches to see what people are posting to their web "museums". A good place to start would be http://www.vintage.org/vcf/vcflinks.htm which has links to hundreds of web sites with pictures and details of many different computers. View enough sites and you start to get an idea of what's out there and the amazing number of things you haven't see yet. Armed with this knowledge stored in your head, you can now go out and start to look for these machines, or be able to better identify just what you are looking at when you see it. Its the best you have until a definitive compendium is made with pictures and descriptions (an idea that has been tossed around over here among the local SF Bay Area collectors for a while now). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 27 11:46:43 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Question about HP 130C O-scope In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990226184336.46a77a62@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Joe wrote: > At 12:40 PM 2/26/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Does anybody know when Hewlett-Packard made the Model 130C oscilloscope? > >Its tube based. The serial number is 503-03353. > > > >Any pointers would be appreciated. > > Well I can tell you that it was made in the 3rd week of 1965. It may be > in my '68 catalog. I'll check next time I pull it out. It is in the '68 catalog. I took a peek in one yesterday at a local surplus shop and there it was. Thanks all. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 11:47:34 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Deadline: Teledisk group grab Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227094734.0093ee60@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Well! This is going better than I ever expected! We've got 17 people so far, counting myself, interested in chipping in for a copy of Teledisk. This has brought the per-person price down to $9.00 (assuming $150 for the program plus $3.00 shipping). We have eight slots left out of 25 originally, and it occurs to me that I should probably set a deadline. For the moment, that deadline is 17:00 Pacific Time Sunday (2-28). In other words, tomorrow by five. If you're interested in getting in on this, please let me know via private E-mail by then. Thanks to all who've signed up so far. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 27 11:50:39 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <199902262301.RAA07230@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Anything with the word Terak on it, that isnt from Star Trek Deep > Space Nine, is a collectable. Anything with an 8" floppy drive is a > collectable. Anything you recognize, but looks a little strange (An > Apple ][ with a black case, for example) is a collectable. I've come across some pretty bland machines with 8" drives. 8" drives do not a special machine make. > Anything else, will be a collectable in a few years. Will a common 486/66 PC-clone ever be collectable? Maybe in a 1000 years. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 27 11:50:59 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Last call, Teledisk Pro group buy In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > As one might imagine, this has a lot of possibilities for preserving old > boot and application floppies for such things as KayPro's, Commodores, ^^^^^^^^^ > Apples, DEC hardware, and God only knows how many other pieces of gear that ^^^^^^ > used floppies. The image files can be easily stored on long-lived media, > such as CD-R discs, and recreated at will. > Again, the only limitation is that a PC's floppy drive be able to, > at the hardware level, read the original diskette. But, unfortunately, two of your examples are NOT possible on a hardware level. And important formats, at that. In addition to the DRIVE, the DISK CONTROLLER (board/system, not just chip) must be hardware compatible. NO piece of software is going to be able to stuff GCR through a PC type of disk controller. Commodore made some PC clones; but other than those, the Commodore disk formats (Pet, 20, 64, 128, Amiga, ...) are NOT possible to do with unmodified PC hardware. The Amiga disks are MFM, but they have a sector header structure that is not compatible with the FDC. Compaticard will NOT provide the necessary hardware capability, although MatchPoint, CatWeasel, Apple Turnover, or CP Option board MIGHT. I doubt that Teledisk has support for Matchpoint, Turnover, Option board, or CatWeasel. Apple has switched to a fairly conventional MFM format for its high density Mac disks; but other than those, the rest of the Apple disk formats ( ][, ][CP/M, ][ Prodos, ][ Pascal, Mac 400K, Mac 800K ...) are NOT possible to do with unmodified PC hardware. Compaticard will NOT provide the necessary hardware capability, although MatchPoint, CatWeasel, Apple Turnover, or CP Option board MIGHT. I doubt that Teledisk has support for Matchpoint, Turnover Option board, or CatWeasel. BTW, hard-sectored formats are also hrdware incompatible. There are thousands of formats that are possible, but there are a few important ones that aren't. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 11:56:27 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: CORRECTION! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227095627.0095f920@mail.bluefeathertech.com> WHOA! Stop the presses! I goofed. A couple of people in the group ordered two shares in the group buy for Teledisk, so I screwed up in the previous message. We have FIVE (5) shares left. The deadline of tomorrow at 17:00 Pacific is still in effect. If we get a full 25 people in on this, the total cost with shipping will be $6.12 per person. Let me know! Thanks... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 27 11:56:45 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > My general method at radio rallies is 'if it looks interesting, then buy > it' :-). I also have an reasonable memory for what parts fit most of the > machines that I own, so I can dig through a box of old PCBs and think > 'hey - that's a DEC paper tape interface card'.... Another suggestion: if you are able to open up the box to look inside, inspect the date codes on the ICs. If the oldest date code is less than say 1981, its probably an interesting micro. Mini's are of course always interesting, and mainframes speak for themself. Dating the machine by its date codes is not infallible though. The oldest IC may be one that was replaced much later with a much younger part (so a machine that was really built in 1976 might have a 1984 dated IC that the original owner put in when the original IC gave out). Also, you're not always allowed to go disassembling machines you see for sale. Sometimes the sellers get real uptight (I had a lady in a thrift store look at me strangely when I found that IBM PCjr without the internal disk drive and, wanting to know if this was a model that came from the factory like that, started opening it up to examine it further...finally she exclaimed "can I help you!?" and I of course replied "No, thanks" :) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 11:58:27 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Last call, Teledisk Pro group buy In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227095827.00960300@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 09:50 27-02-1999 -0800, you wrote: >But, unfortunately, two of your examples are NOT possible on a hardware >level. And important formats, at that. Thanks for the clarification, Fred. I sit corrected. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat Feb 27 12:33:25 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Mike Ford wrote: >>I disturbs me to think I have ever walked past something neat, and left it >>to rot or be loaded into a scrap bin. Outside of a fairly narrow scope of >>Apple products I don't know what I should be looking for. I would like to >>see some sort of guide to old stuff, maybe a half or quarter of a doubled >>sided laser printed sheet of paper, that ran down some of the items that >>are hard to find, which I could fold up and put in my wallet. Is there a >>short list, generic or specific? > >Just from hanging around this list, you should be able to pick up what >machines are most generally coveted/respected/common/whatever. However, >you should bring home everything _especially_ if you can't identify it. >Remember, the stuff you can't identify is most likely to be something cool >that all of us will then respect you for. Well, maybe not, but you'll get >more hours of fun from it ;) > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) I suppose my wife should just be glad I don't collect trains. From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 27 13:02:43 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Last call, Teledisk Pro group buy In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > This is the last call for folks interested in pooling resources to get a > copy of Teledisk Pro. So far, counting myself, we've got nine people in on > it. This dropped the per-person price down to around $17.00 each (shipping > included). <...> > Given that the license would be for up to 25 users, we have > sixteen slots left. In the event we actually do get 25 people > interested, it will drop the per-person price down to around $6.00. Might I suggest that you hand out the remaining licenses for a flat rate of $20 to anyone who does not come in before you actually do the purchase? This way it allows you to set your price for the nine people on board now. Unfortunately, this means you will be making money off of their product, which may not make Sydex happy, but what else are you to do, refund everyone a buck everytime a new person comes in with a license? Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sat Feb 27 13:05:35 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Max Eskin wrote: > Today, I saw an interesting typewriter from the late '70s/early '80s > called a Hermes 51 Level 4. It's an enormous 135-column daisy wheel with > erasing tape. What is interesting about it is that it has an external disk > drive, connected to it with an extremely thick cable. The drive is called > a 'microdisk' according to the reference card. It allows storage of text. > Looks like a scaled-down VHS tape rewinder. I have never seen any disk > that might fit it. Does anyone know anything about this machine? This Hmmm...I think I know exactly what disks this uses. A local surplus shop has a ton of those for sale at $1 per 10. They look like 8" disks but are more rectangular as they are more like 8" x 7". > BTW: I also saw a Rainbow 100. Anything distinguishing it from any other > CPM/MS-DOS machine? It's a DEC for one. Dual processor (8086 and Z80, or is that 8088 and 8085? maybe 8088 and Z80?) Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat Feb 27 12:40:25 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <199902262301.RAA07230@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Feb 26, 1999 11:27:22 am" Message-ID: >Anything with the word Terak on it, that isnt from Star Trek Deep >Space Nine, is a collectable. Anything with an 8" floppy drive is a >collectable. Anything you recognize, but looks a little strange (An >Apple ][ with a black case, for example) is a collectable. > >Anything else, will be a collectable in a few years. > >-Lawrence LeMay I ran across someone in AZ that collects Teraks. I still have a couple boxes of 8" floppies from college (UC Riverside was supposed to be working with UC San Diego on the Pascal stuff, but end results were about all we saw). I did see a black AC adapter for a Stylewriter last week, and I have some granite round Apple microphones. BTW strangely enough from the replies, I am getting a hint of an answer. ;) Sorry it isn't going to be haul it all home, in SoCal I could fill a truck every day of the week. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat Feb 27 12:59:22 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: schematics useful to anyone In-Reply-To: <36D776D4.2818@swbell.net> References: <990226163934.21c0046d@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: > I have photocopies of TI 99/4A schematics and two or three revs of the >corvus concept. Would these be useful to anyone? Goodwill in Santa Ana CA has one in fair shape at the computer store. Less than $20, but more than $10 last I looked. They have had a string of older stuff recently, commodore, atari, etc. Auction today has a car load of new Intellivison software etc. Adrays in Orange CA. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sat Feb 27 13:07:26 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II In-Reply-To: <004a01be6265$8f3840c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: >Fine, >I got a complete PCjr with pretty much all of the peripherals ever made for >it, two joysticks, color monitor, a box of software and the carrying case. >So there! >Francois > > >>Got a second Altair today. No serial number and missing a capcitor in the >>power supply but otherwise it looks like it's in perfect condition. I found a 80387sx-16 that I have been looking for to put in my Unisys 386 (questions coming soon on other details like video memory chips.). From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 13:24:52 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >BTW: I also saw a Rainbow 100. Anything distinguishing it from any other >CPM/MS-DOS machine? You mean besides the cool looking floppy drive? It's got both a Z80 and a 8086 (or is that 8088) so it can run both CP/M-80 and DOS. Besides it's a DEC what more could you want :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Feb 27 13:28:35 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: need X terminal host software Message-ID: <199902271928.NAA07848@thorin.cs.umn.edu> A bunch of X terminals were donated to the local university, but the company was unable to find most of the host software... If anyone has the host based software for these, i'd sure like to get a copy: A couple Sun SPARCclassic X units were donated. They look to my eyes as if they are a normal sun, just missing a floppy drive... Can I just install Solaris on these? A pair of terminals from "Phase X Systems". I've never heard of them. The majority of terminals are from HP. Both HP Entria Plus, and a few HP Entria II systems. I really* need the host software for these... -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 13:36:35 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Ford wrote: >I suppose my wife should just be glad I don't collect trains. Especially in the sense that some guy here in the Portland area does. Although I've only heard of him having an Engine, still that takes up some serious space in a Railyard :^) Still can't believe that. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 13:41:04 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: CatWeasel (was: Re: Last call, Teledisk Pro group buy) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: Fred Cisin wrote: >Commodore made some PC clones; but other than those, the Commodore disk >formats (Pet, 20, 64, 128, Amiga, ...) are NOT possible to do with >unmodified PC hardware. The Amiga disks are MFM, but they have a sector >header structure that is not compatible with the FDC. Compaticard will >NOT provide the necessary hardware capability, although MatchPoint, >CatWeasel, Apple Turnover, or CP Option board MIGHT. I doubt that >Teledisk has support for Matchpoint, Turnover, Option board, or CatWeasel. CatWeasel can read Amiga disks, that is it's main selling point on the PC. Does anyone have any experience with it on the PC side? Thier web page CAN NOT be trusted. I bought the Amiga verison expecting to be able to read all the different formats advertised only to discover that it did not include the necessary software. I consider that false advertising. It will read C-1541 disks quite nicely on the Amiga though, but IIRC that is IT! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 13:56:32 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Max, I would not recommend picking up just anything if you are a novice. >You may end up bringing home plenty of unintersting PC clones. For one thing, most people can use the parts. For the other, PC clones often have interesting features. For the third, the novice will learn eventually. According to your recommendation, he might pass up something interesting. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 13:58:33 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Hmmm...I think I know exactly what disks this uses. A local surplus shop >has a ton of those for sale at $1 per 10. They look like 8" disks but are >more rectangular as they are more like 8" x 7". Nooo...imagine a 3.5" floppy disk chopped in half and you'd be getting the idea. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From blakeman at creative-net.net Sat Feb 27 14:08:02 1999 From: blakeman at creative-net.net (Alice Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: FS: PS/2 model 70 power supply Message-ID: <36D850A1.8BD12D40@creative-net.net> Power supply for model 70, like new and works fine. Gutted machine for motherboard related errors and have teted this unit with other 70's - works flawlessly. $5.00 plus applicable USPS rate, about 5 lbs weight from zip 40144. Needs to go soon, we're looking at a move soon. Payable by money order, USA and APO/FPO addresses only please. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 14:13:01 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: 1 SHARE LEFT! Teledisk group buy In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227121301.00952100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 11:02 27-02-1999 -0800, you wrote: >Might I suggest that you hand out the remaining licenses for a flat rate >of $20 to anyone who does not come in before you actually do the purchase? Actually, Sellam, the question may be rendered academic, because... 1 SHARE LEFT! Yes, folks, we're up to 24 shares (some people bought two). We've got one left, and if no one else speaks up I think I may pick it up myself. Soooo.... does anyone else want a copy of Teledisk? With the number of folks we've got now, the remaining share would be around $6 and change. Anyone? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Feb 27 14:21:52 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - Wirehead) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: SMALL SEALED BID AUCTION - Microsoft Softcard In-Reply-To: <199902191729.LAA00489@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: <3.0.5.32.19990219110512.00cbd370@vpwisfirewall> from John Foust at "Feb 19, 1999 11:05:12 am" Message-ID: I'm doing a small sealed bid auction on the following: Microsoft Softcard (CP/M card) for Apple II computers - Card - Original manual in good condition, small spiral bound - Original boot disk Condition: I booted this card several years ago (but not since then) and was able to run the small CP/M utilities etc that come on the boot disk. This item has been stored since then so I can't absolutely guarantee its condition. Auction Terms: This will be a sealed bid auction. Send your offers to me at wirehead@retrocomputing.com. They will be recorded and the highest bidder by Midnight March 6, 1999 will be sold the item. Everyone, who bid, will receive an email at that time telling them the high bid but not to whom it was sold. Shipping will be in addition to your bid and will be $7.50 in the continental United States. The minimum bid on this item is $5.00. Payment Terms: The successful bidder will send a check or money order for the winning bid amount plus $7.50 shipping to my address, which the winner will be provided. If payment is in the form of a money order, the item will be shipped immediately. If payment is in the form of a check, shipping will be delayed 3 days while the check clears. Thanks. I feel it's better to auction the stuff here than on Ebay since the items are more likely to find homes with genuine collectors and not "investors". Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From fpp at concentric.net Sat Feb 27 14:27:49 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: TRW Find Message-ID: <000601be628f$a6276e80$84f3adce@fpp> Hey, TRW was a blast this morning. I found a Sony SMC-70G computer. I looks a little like an old laptop. Does anyone have the OS for this machine? It has the video titler modification. The cool thing about the computer is the two 3.5' Drive bays. Sony developed the 3.5" disk for this computer. It was their first "micro computer." I also scored an original TRS-80 monitor that still works. From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 14:40:35 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS Message-ID: Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen bigger ones --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 14:10:08 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <19990227040249.19376.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 27, 99 04:02:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1167 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/14ecdf5a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 14:30:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: PDP8 Parts/Software avail. In-Reply-To: <199902271612.AA24718@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 27, 99 11:12:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/1d3258e1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 14:36:32 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 27, 99 09:56:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1273 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/485ac498/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 14:32:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 27, 99 09:46:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 909 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/a39f8125/attachment.ksh From fpp at concentric.net Sat Feb 27 14:47:45 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: SMALL SEALED BID AUCTION - Microsoft Softcard Message-ID: <004e01be6292$6f175560$84f3adce@fpp> I have about 15 Apple II e and a few Plus, about 20 floppie drives, some manuals, power supplies, and a selection of language cards, etc. Anyone interested. I am not looking to make money, just looking to help anyone that might be collecting this stuff. From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 27 15:01:49 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Last call, Teledisk Pro group buy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > > As one might imagine, this has a lot of possibilities for preserving old > > boot and application floppies for such things as KayPro's, Commodores, > ^^^^^^^^^ > > Apples, DEC hardware, and God only knows how many other pieces of gear that > ^^^^^^ > > used floppies. The image files can be easily stored on long-lived media, > > such as CD-R discs, and recreated at will. > > Again, the only limitation is that a PC's floppy drive be able to, > > at the hardware level, read the original diskette. > > But, unfortunately, two of your examples are NOT possible on a hardware > level. And important formats, at that. > > In addition to the DRIVE, the DISK CONTROLLER (board/system, not just > chip) must be hardware compatible. NO piece of software is going to be > able to stuff GCR through a PC type of disk controller. > > Commodore made some PC clones; but other than those, the Commodore disk > formats (Pet, 20, 64, 128, Amiga, ...) are NOT possible to do with > unmodified PC hardware. The Amiga disks are MFM, but they have a sector > header structure that is not compatible with the FDC. Compaticard will > NOT provide the necessary hardware capability, although MatchPoint, > CatWeasel, Apple Turnover, or CP Option board MIGHT. I doubt that > Teledisk has support for Matchpoint, Turnover, Option board, or CatWeasel. Teledisk will definitely not support the MatchPoint card. Since the MatchPoint card requires the use of a special version of UniForm and TeleDisk does not recognize it. I question whether it would support the MatchMaker card (allows a DOS box to read the variable speed Apple disks using an external Apple drive) either. Essentially, it appears that any card that modifies normal FDC function and requires software to activate it cannot be seen by TeleDisk. - don > Apple has switched to a fairly conventional MFM format for its high > density Mac disks; but other than those, the rest of the Apple disk > formats ( ][, ][CP/M, ][ Prodos, ][ Pascal, Mac 400K, Mac 800K ...) are > NOT possible to do with unmodified PC hardware. Compaticard will NOT > provide the necessary hardware capability, although MatchPoint, CatWeasel, > Apple Turnover, or CP Option board MIGHT. I doubt that Teledisk has > support for Matchpoint, Turnover Option board, or CatWeasel. > > > BTW, hard-sectored formats are also hrdware incompatible. > > There are thousands of formats that are possible, but there are a few > important ones that aren't. > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/ visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site at http://www.devili.iki.fi/cpm/ with Mirror at http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Feb 27 15:15:56 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Feb 27, 1999 08:32:03 pm" Message-ID: <199902272115.PAA07944@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > > Just from hanging around this list, you should be able to pick up what > > > machines are most generally coveted/respected/common/whatever. However, > > > you should bring home everything _especially_ if you can't identify it. > > > Remember, the stuff you can't identify is most likely to be something cool > > > that all of us will then respect you for. Well, maybe not, but you'll get > > > more hours of fun from it ;) > > > > Max, I would not recommend picking up just anything if you are a novice. > > You may end up bringing home plenty of unintersting PC clones. > > If it looks like a PC-clone (vertical metal strips for the expansion > slots at the back), then it's either a boring PC-clone or one of the > _very_ interesting Whitechapel machines :-)... > > Seriously, PC-clones shouldn't be too hard to recogise, particularly if > you can look inside the case. Well, considering some Apollo computers look like they were built into a IBM-AT metal case, sometimes its not easy to distinguish something important from a PC clone. -Lawrence LeMay From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 27 15:22:25 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: TRW Find In-Reply-To: <000601be628f$a6276e80$84f3adce@fpp> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Paul Passmore wrote: > Hey, > > TRW was a blast this morning. I found a Sony SMC-70G computer. I looks a > little like an old laptop. Does anyone have the OS for this machine? It has Yes, I have it and several other programs for it. I'll e-mail you the information. - don > the video titler modification. The cool thing about the computer is the two > 3.5' Drive bays. Sony developed the 3.5" disk for this computer. It was > their first "micro computer." I also scored an original TRS-80 monitor > that still works. > > From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 15:28:18 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <199902272115.PAA07944@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Lawrence LeMay wrote: >Well, considering some Apollo computers look like they were built into >a IBM-AT metal case, sometimes its not easy to distinguish something >important from a PC clone. Which simply means, carry a screwdriver with you at all times :) In fact, PC clones sometimes have interesting software on them. I once saw a Compaq Portable that had a network card and had apparently been used in some sort of DEC network. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 15:45:50 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: References: from Message-ID: >If it looks like a PC-clone (vertical metal strips for the expansion >slots at the back), then it's either a boring PC-clone or one of the >_very_ interesting Whitechapel machines :-)... It could also be one of the nice big-box Amiga's, though I think only the A2000's match that specific description. Not sure about the layout of a A4000. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Feb 27 15:41:14 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: Max Eskin "OT: 30-pin SIMMS" (Feb 27, 15:40) References: Message-ID: <9902272141.ZM28751@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 27, 15:40, Max Eskin wrote: > Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS > Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers > that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen > bigger ones Quite a few of my machines -- including one PC-compatible and a couple of Sparcs -- have 30-pin 4MB SIMMs. They're fairly common. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pechter at pechter.ddns.org Sat Feb 27 15:42:27 1999 From: pechter at pechter.ddns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: need X terminal host software In-Reply-To: <199902271928.NAA07848@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "Feb 27, 1999 1:28:35 pm" Message-ID: <199902272142.QAA72095@pechter.ddns.org> > A bunch of X terminals were donated to the local university, but the company > was unable to find most of the host software... If anyone has the host based > software for these, i'd sure like to get a copy: > > A couple Sun SPARCclassic X units were donated. They look to my eyes as > if they are a normal sun, just missing a floppy drive... Can I just install > Solaris on these? > > A pair of terminals from "Phase X Systems". I've never heard of them. > > The majority of terminals are from HP. Both HP Entria Plus, and a few > HP Entria II systems. I really* need the host software for these... > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > They're full Sparcs... no problem installing Solaris if they've got the memory and disk. They'll run Solaris 2.x-7 with no problems. I think they'll run SunOS 4.1.4 as well. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Feb 27 16:00:33 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: TRW encounters Message-ID: (Hey Paul! Sorry we missed you at TRW!) Marvin got a Processor Tech dual 8" floppy subsystem and an HP 65 desktop comp. I found a Kaypro 10 for $5, and a Nicolet digital storage scope for $10. No chance right now to see if it works... I got a box of binders of HP 3000 software docs, and a bunch of other classiccmp related software books, like Lisp, Pascal, and some early IBM PC type books. (I have to work today and tonite; I won't be able to unpack the truck and get to this stuff until tomorrow.) I also was given a Sord Socius.. after the idiot who bought it tore it apart for the 8" disk drives, and then discovered he didn't want them after all. Any info on this machine? Date codes are from the early 80s, and it has an 8086 and 8087... color monitor... big machine. It's in pieces right now and the case is gone, but it might be good for parts.... I also have the OS (I think) and another disk which were in the drives. The OS disk is labelled partially in Japanese. I got a newish DEC backplane with some hex-height boards.. L1011??? have to unpack it and then I'll look em up. I saw an old friend of mine there whilst I was buying the HP 65... he didn't know I collected Old Iron..... "Oh, then you would you be interested in two old IMSAI 8080s I have? I was using them to collect and collate earthquake data, but I don't use them now and they're just in the way..." YAAAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!! Of course what I said to *him* was: "Hmmmm those are really *old*... I'll call you monday and I'll come check them out...." salivate salivate Pavlov's Classic Collector salivate salivate... Non classiccmp... I got an ancient VOX harmonizer accessory, and the an old Teac Dolby Encode/Decode box. Dave Dameron stopped by.... but no party this time, Marvin and I both had afternoon appointments. Cheerz John PS: Next TRW: 27 March 99... From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 27 15:07:41 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS Message-ID: <199902272107.AA26334@world.std.com> Someone just mentioned nicolet which rings a bell... At a local surplus store, I've been eyeing a nicolet machine. It sure LOOKS like a computer. ISTR panel labels about registers, instruction counter, etc. Front panel has lots of blinkenlightenz. Can't recall the model number, 330 or 880 or 800 possibly comes to mind... Also can't remember but there may be a dual floppy unit with it. Just on appearances I was considering adding it to my collection - they only wanted about $15.00 for it. Looks in good shape. Can anyone give me any information on this guy about what it really is from my schetchy outline? Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 27 16:16:12 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <199902271613.AA24896@world.std.com> (allisonp@world.std.com) References: <199902271613.AA24896@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990227221612.22834.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > OK, except that I still don't understand. It looks like ALL of the signal > are bussed straight across, except the bus grant. So I still don't see > how the first card knows that it is first, and why the second card doesn't > erroneously think that it is first. Allison replied: > MVII memory use PMI AND CD slots and the CD slots are not bussed for Q. Yes, but the CD slots *are* bussed together. I still can't find a single signal between the KA630 CPU board and the pair of MS630 memory boards that is not bussed straight through between all three cards. Other than the bus grant on the A/B Qbus connectors, which AFAIK doesn't enter into memory addressing in any way. So I *still* don't understand how it works. Eric From jlwest at tseinc.com Sat Feb 27 16:16:10 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: TRW encounters Message-ID: <00d701be629e$c800c100$0c01a8c0@ws2.tse.com> I've always wanted an IMSAI 8080. If you get two would you be willing to part with one or possibly trade? I know they seem to be fetching hefty prices from what I've heard so I don't think I can afford one.. but thought I'd ask. Jay West -----Original Message----- From: John Lawson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 4:06 PM Subject: TRW encounters > > > (Hey Paul! Sorry we missed you at TRW!) > > > Marvin got a Processor Tech dual 8" floppy subsystem and an HP 65 >desktop comp. > > I found a Kaypro 10 for $5, and a Nicolet digital storage scope >for $10. No chance right now to see if it works... I got a box of >binders of HP 3000 software docs, and a bunch of other classiccmp >related software books, like Lisp, Pascal, and some early IBM PC >type books. > > (I have to work today and tonite; I won't be able to unpack the >truck and get to this stuff until tomorrow.) > > I also was given a Sord Socius.. after the idiot who bought it >tore it apart for the 8" disk drives, and then discovered he didn't >want them after all. Any info on this machine? Date codes are from >the early 80s, and it has an 8086 and 8087... color monitor... big >machine. It's in pieces right now and the case is gone, but it >might be good for parts.... I also have the OS (I think) and >another disk which were in the drives. The OS disk is labelled >partially in Japanese. > > I got a newish DEC backplane with some hex-height boards.. >L1011??? have to unpack it and then I'll look em up. > > I saw an old friend of mine there whilst I was buying the HP 65... >he didn't know I collected Old Iron..... "Oh, then you would you be >interested in two old IMSAI 8080s I have? I was using them to >collect and collate earthquake data, but I don't use them now and >they're just in the way..." > > YAAAHAHAHHAAA!!!!!! Of course what I said to *him* was: "Hmmmm >those are really *old*... I'll call you monday and I'll come check >them out...." salivate salivate Pavlov's Classic Collector >salivate salivate... > > > Non classiccmp... I got an ancient VOX harmonizer accessory, and >the an old Teac Dolby Encode/Decode box. > > Dave Dameron stopped by.... but no party this time, Marvin and I >both had afternoon appointments. > > > Cheerz > >John > > >PS: Next TRW: 27 March 99... > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 16:22:59 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory Message-ID: I'm curious, has anyone ever sat down and figured out how best to define a database that would hold info on all thier Classic Computer documentation. You know stuff like DEC Fiche, DEC Handbooks, manuals, catalogues, brouchures, etc.? Does anyone have any thoughts on what info should be captured? For example, a randomly selected piece of Fiche yields the following info: Colour: Brown Bar Title: Mini Index 83-05 ???: Hardware Documentation Library Index, Updateing and User Information Part Number?: EP-0MINI-IX-05 Copyright: 1983 Fiche 1 of 1 Produced By: Digital I can see needing a field that is something like machine type that would be; PDP-11, PDP-8, VAX, Terminal, Printer, Tape Drive, Disk Drive, etc. Properly defined this database could be used for more than just DEC Doc's, which is my primary concern at the moment. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Feb 27 16:21:45 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19990227222145.22880.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > I'd always assumed it used the CD-interconnect between the first 3 slots > on the MicroVax backplane. Those signals are wired from one slot to the > next, and aren't bussed between all the slots. Oh, that would explain it then. The docs I have (which don't include prints) seem to imply that the C/D interconnect is bussed. Thanks! Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 16:36:53 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Epson CP/M Laptop Message-ID: Quick question, what is a fair price to offer someone for a nicely decked out CP/M laptop? It's the one that has a bunch of the software on two ROMS, and IIRC has a tape recorder. It has modem, doc's and some other stuff. I'd like to offer the guy a fair price instead of getting a good deal. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sat Feb 27 16:21:52 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS Message-ID: <19990227223446826.AAA90@fuj03> Yes . . . there are lots of 4MB simms of the 30-pin variety around. I even have a few sitting around and frequently have seen them offered for sale. I have a couple of motherboards sying about which use the SIPP's, though, and though it's quite easy to imagine SIPP's being as easy as ever to build, I've never seen a 4MB SIPP. Dick ---------- > From: Max Eskin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS > Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 1:40 PM > > Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers > that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen > bigger ones > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From fpp at concentric.net Sat Feb 27 16:57:04 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS Message-ID: <000a01be62a4$7ff0d200$fafaadce@fpp> 30 Pin 4meg $12 and 30 pin 8 meg $? were at TRW swapmeet today. There is a place in Santa Ana and Lomita CA that has "used" ones for about these same prices. Alltech Computers is the name but I do no't have the phone number. They sell a lot of mailorder. Hope this is of help. -----Original Message----- From: Max Eskin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 12:41 PM Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS >Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers >that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen >bigger ones > >--Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) > > From rexstout at uswest.net Sat Feb 27 17:14:45 1999 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <199902272107.AA26334@world.std.com> Message-ID: >You can still buy 30pin simms (256k, 1mb, 4mb) from JDR. the 4mb parts are >scarce and finding them for less than 10$ is hard. The 1mb parts are like >flies and they can be had for nearly nothing. And don't forget the 16MB ones... One of the Macintosh catalogs has 30-pin SIMMs really cheap, but I don't remember which one. MacWarehouse has them from $20 for 1MB to $160 for 16B. MacMall(which carries Viking memory) has 2MB for $20 and 16MB for $50(and a 32 pin??? 32MB for $60) -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac@qth.net Portland, OR | -------------------------------------------------------------- From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 17:18:36 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: Group buy done! Thanks to all... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227151836.0091ca20@mail.bluefeathertech.com> OK, we're done! All shares have now been spoken for in the first Teledisk group buy. I would like to thank all those who were interested for participating. FWIW, the last share was claimed by Dan Burrows via a phone call. I did receive about six more E-mails after the quota for this one had been reached. This tells me that there may be more interest. If anyone else wants to do this as well, please, go for it! This is a great way to buy the higher-end software tools that would be useful to us, and if Sydex did it for the group I had they can certainly do it for another one. Banzai! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jpero at cgocable.net Sat Feb 27 17:36:51 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:27 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <000a01be62a4$7ff0d200$fafaadce@fpp> Message-ID: <199902272333.SAA16410@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 14:57:04 -0800 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Paul Passmore" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: 30-pin SIMMS Originally to: 4MB 30pin simms is just tad TO of 2 things: It's bit harder to find them especially in my area and I have a classic machine that can use them. When they do turn up in used parts, they get snapped up instantly for their 486 machines and at outragous price where I can buy them new for few dollars more. I'd wished that I could buy them at 5 US dollars each stick, 16 or 4 sticks in all or 4 simms at a time. In 4 groups, each group shall be matched, 70ns. Total 64MB. If that is true in your area for that, mucho appreciated! The problem is, I do not have funds for 2 or 3 months. Oh well!  Wizard From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Feb 27 17:42:46 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: from John Rollins at "Feb 27, 1999 03:14:45 pm" Message-ID: <199902272342.RAA08055@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > >You can still buy 30pin simms (256k, 1mb, 4mb) from JDR. the 4mb parts are > >scarce and finding them for less than 10$ is hard. The 1mb parts are like > >flies and they can be had for nearly nothing. > > And don't forget the 16MB ones... One of the Macintosh catalogs has 30-pin > SIMMs really cheap, but I don't remember which one. MacWarehouse has them > from $20 for 1MB to $160 for 16B. MacMall(which carries Viking memory) has > 2MB for $20 and 16MB for $50(and a 32 pin??? 32MB for $60) > Now that is absurd pricing. Data Memory Systems will sell you a 30 pin 16 meg simm for $29, not that absurd $160 you mention. 4 meg are $10. www.datamem.com -Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 17:11:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <199902272115.PAA07944@thorin.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Feb 27, 99 03:15:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 902 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/8aef96aa/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 17:16:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 27, 99 04:28:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/835ea14f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 17:20:08 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: uVax II questions In-Reply-To: <19990227222145.22880.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Feb 27, 99 10:21:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 843 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/3f09226d/attachment.ksh From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Sat Feb 27 17:57:32 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: New discoveries at the Secret Weapons of Commodore Message-ID: <199902272357.PAA09530@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1927 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990227/d44932c6/attachment.ksh From rcini at msn.com Sat Feb 27 17:19:52 1999 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: V35-RS232 cable? Message-ID: <003f01be62ae$d8c0d420$e0e5fea9@mainoffice> On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 06:28:21 -0800, Bruce Lane wrote: >>I'm a little surprised to hear of a V.35 cable on something like a paper >>pe handler. Are you sure the thing really does have a V.35 interface, and >>at Roytron didn't just happen to use the same connector that V.35 devices >>do? Since I have no operational data for the unit, it may not be a real v.35 interface, but it may just use the v.35 connector. Since it was used in a PDP farm, I would suspect it's RS232. The cable that I remember that was attached was RS232 to v.35 with no electronics in between. [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW7 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/pdp11/ <================ reply separator =================> From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Feb 27 18:15:40 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Group buy done! Thanks to all... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990227151836.0091ca20@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Bruce Lane wrote: > > I did receive about six more E-mails after the quota for this one had been > reached. This tells me that there may be more interest. If anyone else Hmmm... apeaking as one of the unfortunate ones.... why not extend the offer to another group of 25... and buy another round? Just my 20 millidollars. Cheerz John From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Sat Feb 27 18:28:03 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide Message-ID: <199902280028.TAA27985@platy.cs.unc.edu> Okay, I'm sure this is going to cost me, but... :-) I've made a first-attempt at a list. You can find a link to it, called "Machines to watch for", from my classiccmp web page, at this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ I'm open to suggestions on additions and deletions. My current rule of thumb (which is also open to suggestions) is that it belongs on that web page if there is sure to be someone who wants it enough to pay shipping charges for it, or otherwise arrange to take posession of it. While you're there, kindly glance at the Rescue Squad volunteer list, and let me know if your entry needs an update. BTW, how does everyone feel about advertising that? I've considered posting the URL to various related newsgroups, but am torn between the possibilities of increased donations and getting the attention of the wrong people. I'd rather not feed the e-bay "collectables" frenzy. Should I be shooting for "high profile", or just letting interested parties seek us out? Cheers, Bill. On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Mike Ford wrote: ] Novice guide to old stuff. ] ] I disturbs me to think I have ever walked past something neat, and left it ] to rot or be loaded into a scrap bin. Outside of a fairly narrow scope of ] Apple products I don't know what I should be looking for. I would like to ] see some sort of guide to old stuff, maybe a half or quarter of a doubled ] sided laser printed sheet of paper, that ran down some of the items that ] are hard to find, which I could fold up and put in my wallet. Is there a ] short list, generic or specific? From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 27 18:30:27 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <199902272107.AA26334@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > You can still buy 30pin simms (256k, 1mb, 4mb) from JDR. the 4mb parts are > scarce and finding them for less than 10$ is hard. The 1mb parts are like > flies and they can be had for nearly nothing. > > Allison > And folks use the 256k ones for keyring fobs. - don From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 27 18:36:38 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <199902280028.TAA27985@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Bill Yakowenko wrote: > I've made a first-attempt at a list. You can find a link to it, > called "Machines to watch for", from my classiccmp web page, at > this URL: > > http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ And don't forget Hans Pufal's list: http://www.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc (hard to get on a single sheet of 8.5x11", though :-) -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 27 18:51:47 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Does anyone have any thoughts on what info should be captured? For I've thought about this a bit, but I've been way slow to implement anything. Start by taking a look at BibTeX. It gives you most of the fields you'll want, and there are a bunch of tools out there to deal with it. -- Doug From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 18:57:54 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Question sent to Sydex Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227165754.0094faf0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> I hate to see folks closed out of the Teledisk deal just because we already hit the ceiling on the first group buy. With that in mind, I have written to my contact there to find out how much extra it would be to boost the license quantity to 31 instead of 25. That should allow the six folk that got bumped out a chance to get back in. Stay tuned, fellow ClassicCmp'ers! There may yet be a solution. I can't speak for Sydex, but I can sure as heck ask 'em about this! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From at258 at osfn.org Sat Feb 27 19:25:07 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The late Jim Bradley of Stonington, CT used to collect Pullman cars. He had six or 8, in his back yard right next to the main line. You could see them from the train as it went by. After he died there was some talk that some might be scrapped, but I think all have been saved now. One was an open platform observation from "The Yankee Clipper", but it had rusted very badly. On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Mike Ford wrote: > >I suppose my wife should just be glad I don't collect trains. > > Especially in the sense that some guy here in the Portland area does. > Although I've only heard of him having an Engine, still that takes up some > serious space in a Railyard :^) Still can't believe that. > > Zane > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 27 19:55:08 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide Message-ID: <199902280155.AA16462@world.std.com> <> MVII memory use PMI AND CD slots and the CD slots are not bussed for Q. < More uVaxen bits... So I finally got all my wires correct in the serial connector and now get the following dialog: KA630-A.V1.3 Performing normal system tests. 7..6..5..4..3.. Tests completed. >>> Pretty cool. However on the NetBSD/VAX faq they suggest typing 'test 50' to get the ethernet address, if I type that it just says "Failure" does the port need to be connected to a network? So it turns out the _both_ systems had the Sigma Information System ESDI controller in them (not too suprising because they came from the same source) which everyone says "Ohhh, that's a nice controller." which warms my heart, but I _need_ docs. Another reader said that you can plug into the 10 pin port on the board and do some cool stuff like low level format etc etc. But I've not tried that until I get an ESDI disk. I've done lots of searches on the net for ESDI, Q-Bus, Sigma information systems, etc but no luck! I presume they've gone Tango Uniform. But that brings up another issue, I need a mounting "sled" for the disk. Preferably two sleds, (one for each disk). Anyone have any spares? Presumably I can kludge something in a pinch (or use the bottom bay which has a "floor" anyway. I did get donated a complete set of VMS documentation (5.4) but I don't have _any_ hardware documentation, again if you have said docs perhaps we can work out some sort of trade. Given the "mini-PDP-8 surge/hunt" that appears to be going on I expect this thing to be in hot demand in 10 years :-) What was the "standard" console terminal used with these in 1985? VT100? VT220? something else? On the tape drive in the BA123, it has a plain black front with a button and two LEDs, one orange and one green. TK50? Where could I get media for it? What does it look like? Thanks for all the help everyone, this is what makes this hobby fun. --Chuck From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Feb 27 20:32:42 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: RYRYRYRY In-Reply-To: <199902271612.AA24718@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 27, 99 11:12:44 am Message-ID: <199902280232.SAA08271@fraser.sfu.ca> Hi: As a ham, and former RTTY operator, the _sound_ of RYRYRYRY... at 45 baud was quite distinctive, and could easily be discerned by ear, for tuning purposes. I operated 45 baud (Baudot 5-level code, not ASCII) on HF for a number of years in the 70s and 80s. Built my own RTTY modem too, wrote my own software. It was quite advanced, in that I supported 110 bps ASCII, quite leading edge at the time. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 20:39:20 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <199902280155.AA16835@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: >that config the 1meg parts started to be common. Sipps were out os use by Why did people stop using them, and why didn't people start off using SIMMs? Isn't a SIPP basically a SIMM with pins attached to the bottom? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 20:46:35 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Does anyone have any thoughts on what info should be captured? For > >I've thought about this a bit, but I've been way slow to implement >anything. Start by taking a look at BibTeX. It gives you most of the >fields you'll want, and there are a bunch of tools out there to deal with >it. This is another of the problems I've been pondering with this. I'd prefer to set it up using FileMaker Pro 2.1 (current is 4) on my PowerMac, but realize this is probably not the best way to do it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Feb 27 20:44:33 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990227184433.0094e370@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 18:35 27-02-1999 -0800, you wrote: >Pretty cool. However on the NetBSD/VAX faq they suggest typing 'test 50' to >get the ethernet address, if I type that it just says "Failure" does the >port need to be connected to a network? No, TEST 50 doesn't work on MicroVAX II's. That one's for VAXStation 3100's. Testing the MV-II's requires booting of a dedicated diagnostics tape. >On the tape drive in the BA123, it has a plain black front with a button >and two LEDs, one orange and one green. TK50? Where could I get media for >it? What does it look like? Actually, that sounds more like a TK70 or third-party drive. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Feb 27 20:48:42 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 27, 99 02:22:59 pm Message-ID: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> How about a database on the web that collectors could visit and use to record their stuff? Then everyone could query and find out who to talk to for questions on certains items. The problem would be coming to consensus on a common data format. I'll volunteer to host the site and do the DB development if everyone can agree on how to do it. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From jpero at cgocable.net Sat Feb 27 21:07:18 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: References: <199902280155.AA16835@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902280304.WAA11217@mail.cgocable.net> Date sent: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:39:20 -0500 (EST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Max Eskin To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: 30-pin SIMMS Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > >that config the 1meg parts started to be common. Sipps were out os use > >by > > Why did people stop using them, and why didn't people start off using > SIMMs? Isn't a SIPP basically a SIMM with pins attached to the bottom? > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) Triple reasons: Manufacturing turned sockets or (shitty sprung leafs like the IC socket) is more expensive and more problemic. Lastly, trying to install or pulling SIPPs usually result in bent pins. Adding pins to already SIMM's design adds expense in extra parts and solder, labour. So we hail on SIMM's and DIMM's with vigor. Manufacturing regular simm slots, contacts all like cookies, stamped out of workhardened sheet. Punch, punch, punch! And it does over 1000's a minute. Then plated tin or gold depending on quality and some crass cheapiest ones used softer metals. Yeech. Those plastic socket bodies are simply one time molded and all the metal parts simply pressed or snapped into and do many real fast. That it. Punch machines can be size of a largish dorm fridge and it's totally mechanical spun at high speed with a 2 or 3 HP electric motor to punch out small parts up to 2" in area. While you have some dud parts, spend your time pulling those sockets of all types apart, Sometimes it comes apart by heat. Screws are born from roll of wire. Liberally sheared to length, rolled to form threads (not cutting), head mushroomed by a mold under pressure. That is why always can tell the heads is bit off center and sometimes mal-formed. Ditto on scale of number of screws made per minute, 1000's no surprise. Some get plated some painted. Quality screws are fully formed, no burrs, smooth. Crappy ones always chews out the holes and softer. Still have one screw that is threadless with fully formed head, found it when I was working on a PC. :-( ) Wizard From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Feb 27 21:05:20 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: VEGA: 1st Soviet Electronic Calculator In-Reply-To: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <001601be62c7$2cc87060$51f438cb@a.davie> Due to the rather unique nature of this machine, and it's place in calculating/computing history, I'm crossposting to the classic computer list. Whilst not a computer, nor programmable (and therefore not truly valid subject matter for classic computers), this is the very first Electronic calculator designed in the Soviet Union. And it's a lot closer to topic than some recent subjects. Prior to today, neither picture nor detailed information about this machine was available. Now, thanks to some great detective work by a friend in Russia, we have images and details, and even some pictures of the prototypes from 1962! Sergei tracked down the original designer. -- VEGA!! Thanks to the wonderful research of Sergei Frolov, the Museum of Soviet Calculators now hosts images and information about the Soviet Union's very first Soviet Electronic Calculator, the VEGA. We even know the names of the people who designed it! There are some wonderful pictures of the machine and several PROTOTYPES! If you're interested in the genesis of early cacluators, visit and see exactly how they started out in the Soviet Union. Once again, thanks to Sergei we have some important historical information that may otherwise never have seen the light of day. As far as I can tell, these pictures have NEVER BEFORE BEEN SEEN in the West. Please visit the "what's new" link on the main page, which then links to the VEGA page. The Museum of Soviet Calculators resides at... http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Cheers A -- adavie@mad.scientist.com visit the Museum of Soviet Calculators at http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html a Yahoo!, Netscape, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and New Scientist Cool Site!? From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat Feb 27 21:26:08 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory Message-ID: <199902280326.WAA12131@golden.net> Cataloging your collection has many direct and indirect benefits. By all means do it. There isn't anything unique about collecting computers. It takes the same pedigree-type data as does collecting Conestoga wagons. System - sub-assemblies - related items (e.g. documentation). Please don't spend too much time on this. The Computer Museum has done it. The Smithsonian has done it. Ask them. It is covered in the Guide to Collecting Computers...field definitions, etc. are included. If in doubt, don't do this as a "community" excerise, just ask the pros and move forward. Ask you local association of sewing machine collectors, county museum, etc. The issue of compatibility between one collector's database and anothers is easily handled by remapping source to destination fields, if and when an exchange takes place. Actually cataloging your collection is a fun activity. You re-discover all sorts of items you forgot you had. Have fun. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat Feb 27 21:34:45 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Unusual systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory Message-ID: <199902280334.WAA14348@golden.net> >How about a database on the web that collectors could visit and use to >record their stuff? Then everyone could query and find out who to talk to >for questions on certains items. > >The problem would be coming to consensus on a common data format. > >I'll volunteer to host the site and do the DB development if everyone can >agree on how to do it. > This is a nice idea. I just want to remain this list about the long, recently held, discussion about privacy in this list's archives and the negative comments about a web site on MITS Altairs attempts to keep an open registry about Altairs. I have a web site that exposes my collection just like many other members of this list have. I wouldn't participate in a specialized, centralized database of old computers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 . From djenner at halcyon.com Sat Feb 27 21:43:35 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <36D8BB67.B7534E7C@halcyon.com> For documentation, you could start with standard bibliographic categories and add as any qualifiers you want to specialize it to computers. For hardware, I started an inventory database a year or two ago for my PDP-11 stuff. I have a relational database with several tables. This is specific to one type of computer, but you could generalize it without too much trouble. One table contains all the information in the "PDP-11 Field Guide" with the DEC Module ID as the key. I have updated this with corrected information and 3rd party vendor information as I come across it. Another table contains the actual modules I have (or had). A foreign key in this table links to the module type table. A similar set of tables applies to "components", which is basically everything except modules. Rather than try to show containment of modules by components or components by components, the structure of something bigger than a module is just the sum of all the components and modules. Since some of the components and modules are in systems, a final table describes a system. Altogether, it looks like this (the dashed lines are the relationships between the tables in the database): Modules (Field Guide) ======= Module Type Serial Number (key) =========== Module ID -M----------1- Module ID (key) --M- Name Option ID / Source Bus / Status Description Systems / Comment ======= / Name (key) -1-- Type \ Components Serial Number \ ========== Component Type Comment \ Serial Number (key) ============== \ Component ID -M-------1- Component ID (key) --M- Name Option ID Source Bus Comment Type Description This makes it real easy to generate all sort of "reports" on just selected Types, Modules/Components of selected type, status, etc., complete systems--whatever you need. I plan to have selected subsets of this available online at my Web site in a month or two. In fact I was thinking of setting up something like what Kevin suggests, but specialize in just PDP-11 stuff. It would be called QUEUE: Q-bus and Unibus Equipment Users Exchange. If Kevin beats me to it, ... well that saves me a lot of trouble! By the way, the PDP-11 Field Guide has been maintained by Ron Copley, but I haven't heard from him for months/years. I highly recommend that the PDP-11 Field Guide be maintained as a table like above to make it easier to update and use. It's always easy to export the table to some sort of delimited ASCII file (commas, tabs, etc.) to make it usable by someone who doesn't want to use a database. Or to generate a report that reconstructs something real close to the current listing. Dave Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > > How about a database on the web that collectors could visit and use to > record their stuff? Then everyone could query and find out who to talk to > for questions on certains items. > > The problem would be coming to consensus on a common data format. > > I'll volunteer to host the site and do the DB development if everyone can > agree on how to do it. > > Kevin > > -- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 21:43:11 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: RYRYRYRY In-Reply-To: <199902280232.SAA08271@fraser.sfu.ca> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Feb 27, 99 06:32:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/b45b3d80/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 21:57:11 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 27, 99 02:22:59 pm Message-ID: >How about a database on the web that collectors could visit and use to >record their stuff? Then everyone could query and find out who to talk to >for questions on certains items. Early in the days of this list I believe there was something like this. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 27 21:44:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 27, 99 09:39:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 476 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/51d1950e/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 22:04:37 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990227184433.0094e370@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: >>On the tape drive in the BA123, it has a plain black front with a button >>and two LEDs, one orange and one green. TK50? Where could I get media for >>it? What does it look like? > > Actually, that sounds more like a TK70 or third-party drive. Hmmm, do you know what a TK-50 or DLT tape looks like? Is it the correct size for one? This doesn't sound like a TK50, TK70, or TZ30 to me. I'm no expert, but I don't think there are any Third Party TK drives. I'm kind of curious now as to just what you've got! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From max82 at surfree.com Sat Feb 27 22:10:57 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >A SIPP is exactly a SIMM with pins soldered on - even the pinouts are the >same. And thus SIPPs suffer from bent pins, just like individual chips >do. That's why they went out of fashion. But why did anyone attach the pins in the first place? --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Feb 27 22:20:08 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <199902280028.TAA27985@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: >I'm open to suggestions on additions and deletions. My current rule I think at least some Mac's are something to keep an eye out for. I haven't seen a Mac 128 since they were new! I've only seen one Mac Portable ever. Any Mac that is in something other than a Mac case is also a definite grab! There were kits to do it, but I've never seen one (or if I have, didn't realize it). VAX Hardware at least is worth grabbing, but as was pointed out to me today, if you don't know what you're looking at it is hard to know what to grab. DEC Alpha's are actively being looked for by a lot of people, but aren't "Classic". Some Dot matrix printers can be desirable, I spent well over 6 months looking for a DEC LA75 or equivalent, then when I ordered one, a friend gave me one :^) With printers it is a question of what you're doing with the hardware. Don't forget that documentation and software can be even more important to save than the hardware. Also powersupplies for things such as VIC-20's, and other popular 8-bit computer of the 80's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 27 22:23:01 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, John Rollins wrote: > >You can still buy 30pin simms (256k, 1mb, 4mb) from JDR. the 4mb parts are > >scarce and finding them for less than 10$ is hard. The 1mb parts are like > >flies and they can be had for nearly nothing. > > And don't forget the 16MB ones... One of the Macintosh catalogs has 30-pin > SIMMs really cheap, but I don't remember which one. MacWarehouse has them > from $20 for 1MB to $160 for 16B. MacMall(which carries Viking memory) has > 2MB for $20 and 16MB for $50(and a 32 pin??? 32MB for $60) Of course, the Mac ones are non-parity and some of the older iron has a problem with that. - don > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > | ham-mac@qth.net Portland, OR | > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From ss at allegro.com Sat Feb 27 22:27:52 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: schematics useful to anyone In-Reply-To: <36D776D4.2818@swbell.net> Message-ID: <199902280427.UAA25965@bart.allegro.com> Mitch writes: > I have photocopies of TI 99/4A schematics and two or three revs of the > corvus concept. Would these be useful to anyone? I'm interested in the TI schematics, and there's a good chance that Frank M (fmc@reanimators.org) would be interested in the corvus ones. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Feb 27 20:01:40 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <199902272107.AA26334@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19990227200140.23a76062@earthlink.net> At 04:07 PM 2/27/99 -0500, you wrote: > > >You can still buy 30pin simms (256k, 1mb, 4mb) from JDR. the 4mb parts are >scarce and finding them for less than 10$ is hard. The 1mb parts are like >flies and they can be had for nearly nothing. > >Allison > Are there any adapter cards so 4 1mb simms can be used as a 4mb 30 pin? I have seen those that can be used as a 72 pin. -Dave From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Feb 27 22:48:02 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide Message-ID: <278a7b9d.36d8ca82@aol.com> In a message dated 99-02-27 23:18:07 EST, you write: > >I'm open to suggestions on additions and deletions. My current rule > > I think at least some Mac's are something to keep an eye out for. I > haven't seen a Mac 128 since they were new! I've only seen one Mac > Portable ever. Any Mac that is in something other than a Mac case is also > a definite grab! There were kits to do it, but I've never seen one (or if > I have, didn't realize it). standard compact macs are rather unremarkable although i guess the 128 might be worth keeping since it was simply the first model. I think modified macs are far more interesting. for instance, i have a 128 in original box with all the ship group items. the mac was modified with a third party board to basically make it into a mac plus complete with scsi. even got an external floppy and flight sim with it! also have two mac512k models with a hyperdrive; a st225 hard drive and cooling fan installed INSIDE the mac. very heavy but actually works. david From hansp at digiweb.com Sun Feb 28 00:17:58 1999 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <36D8DF96.6B101257@digiweb.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > But that brings up another issue, I need a mounting "sled" for the disk. > Preferably two sleds, (one for each disk). Anyone have any spares? I know I have at least one, probably two if I root about. If you don't have any offers from closer to you drop me a line and I will dig it (them) out for you. Regards _---_--__-_-_----__-_----_-__-__-_-___--_-__--___-__----__--_--__-___- Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 28 00:27:00 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:35:09 -0800) References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <19990228062700.25602.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck wrote: > On the tape drive in the BA123, it has a plain black front with a button > and two LEDs, one orange and one green. TK50? Where could I get media for > it? What does it look like? Maybe an Exabyte 8200 drive (8 mm)? But those aren't standard equipment on the uVAX II, and would require a SCSI controller. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 28 01:00:30 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Military Humor Message-ID: <4.1.19990227225445.00a2b4b0@mcmanis.com> As you know I got these two uVaxen that had been decomissioned from a "secure facility." (GE Nuclear Technology, and no they aren't radioactive!) One has this mystery tape drive (TK70 or perhaps an 8MM) and the other (which is the innards of a BA23 slim chassis stuck into a Sigma Information Systems expansion chassis (which looks somewhat like a BA123) has nothing but a 'hole' where the tape drive should be. Since these are configured identically in every other way I asked a friend of mine who is ex-military what his thoughts on this situation were. His response was : "Its obvious that the second system had a floppy drive. Seen it before, the rule is all disk drives are removed and crushed, tape drives can stay. The system chassis is sold as scrap." Ya gotta love that literal interpretation of the 'regs! --Chuck From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 01:23:11 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Epson CP/M Laptop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Quick question, what is a fair price to offer someone for a nicely decked > out CP/M laptop? It's the one that has a bunch of the software on two > ROMS, and IIRC has a tape recorder. It has modem, doc's and some other > stuff. I'd like to offer the guy a fair price instead of getting a good > deal. This is most likely the PX-8 Geneva? For all that, I'd say $30 - $45 is a fair price. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 01:28:05 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: New discoveries at the Secret Weapons of Commodore In-Reply-To: <199902272357.PAA09530@oa.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > * the Victor 9000 and TOI/the Colour PET What does the Victor 9000 have to do with Commodore other than that Chuck Peddle designed it? > http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ckb/secret/ Your web site is great! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 02:00:18 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: <278a7b9d.36d8ca82@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > standard compact macs are rather unremarkable although i guess the 128 > might be worth keeping since it was simply the first model. I think > modified macs are far more interesting. for instance, i have a 128 in > original box with all the ship group items. the mac was modified with > a third party board to basically make it into a mac plus complete with > scsi. even got an external floppy and flight sim with it! also have > two mac512k models with a hyperdrive; a st225 hard drive and cooling > fan installed INSIDE the mac. very heavy but actually works. Trivial but meaningful distinction: the original Macintosh will have a name plate on the back that merely says "Macintosh". No "Macintosh 128" or "Macintosh 512K". Just "Macintosh". The "Macintosh 128" variety came out when the "Macintosh 512" was released. So the true "first" Macs are the ones that simply say "Macintosh". Also, the first 100 Macintosh's off the assembly line had a special plaque stuck to the back that was customized for each employee on the Mac team, with their name engraved on it, thanking them for their effort in bringing the Mac to fruition. Those are really the most valuable basic Macintosh's (as far as Ebay goes). Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 02:08:26 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <19990228062700.25602.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:35:09 -0800) Message-ID: >Chuck wrote: >> On the tape drive in the BA123, it has a plain black front with a button >> and two LEDs, one orange and one green. TK50? Where could I get media for >> it? What does it look like? > >Maybe an Exabyte 8200 drive (8 mm)? But those aren't standard equipment on >the uVAX II, and would require a SCSI controller. Yipes, looking over at my _Exabyte 8500_ it has a little black button that has a green LED above an orange one directly to the right of the button. I'd guess the drive in question is a 8500, all the 8200's I've seen have beige faceplates. This makes sense seeing as how the MVII in question has SCSI Hard Drives. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Sun Feb 28 02:19:24 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000HX system (fwd) Message-ID: Here is someone wanting to sell a pretty complete Tandy 1000HX system. Is it this one or the 1000EX that has MS-DOS 2.11 in ROM? At any rate its a pretty nice little Tandy all-in-one computer. Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: bluegill@interworldnet.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 23:24:05 -0700 From: C Barnes Subject: Tandy 1000HX system I have the following working system available if you are interested: Tandy 1000HX personal computer (1988) - no hard drive, 640k RAM, two 3.5 in. disk drives, external 5.25 in. disk drive, mouse, and joystick Tandy RGB color monitor CM-5 Tandy DMP 132 dot matrix printer associated software, manuals, diskettes PCM magazine for Tandy users - November 1990 - December 1992 Compute magazine - September 1991 - October 1992 Several other magazines dating back to 1994 (PC Magazine, PC Computing, Home PC, etc) If you are interested in any of this, let me know how I should get it to you. Thanks, Cindy Barnes Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@verio.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Puttin' the smack down on the man! Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0! See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 28 07:04:28 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: interesting, interesting." (Feb 28, 0:08) References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Sat 27 Feb 1999 18:35:09 -0800) Message-ID: <9902281304.ZM29553@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 28, 0:08, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Chuck wrote: > >> On the tape drive in the BA123, it has a plain black front with a button > >> and two LEDs, one orange and one green. TK50? Where could I get media for > >> it? What does it look like? > > > >Maybe an Exabyte 8200 drive (8 mm)? But those aren't standard equipment on > >the uVAX II, and would require a SCSI controller. > > Yipes, looking over at my _Exabyte 8500_ it has a little black button that > has a green LED above an orange one directly to the right of the button. > I'd guess the drive in question is a 8500, all the 8200's I've seen have > beige faceplates. This makes sense seeing as how the MVII in question has > SCSI Hard Drives. Both of my ExaByte 8200's have black faceplates. However, the LEDs are side-by-side about 1.25" from the left side of the drive, and the button is on the right. When the drive is powered up, what do the LEDs do? If you press the button, does the front open to allow you to insert a tape, like a miniature VHS machine? Or does it just have an open slot to slide a cartridge into? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 28 09:10:29 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II In-Reply-To: <004a01be6265$8f3840c0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990228091029.2fef3df0@intellistar.net> Francois, Whatever floats your boat! Joe At 09:25 AM 2/27/99 -0600, you wrote: >Fine, >I got a complete PCjr with pretty much all of the peripherals ever made for >it, two joysticks, color monitor, a box of software and the carrying case. >So there! >Francois > > >>Got a second Altair today. No serial number and missing a capcitor in the >>power supply but otherwise it looks like it's in perfect condition. >> >> Joe >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 28 09:15:01 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:28 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter In-Reply-To: <199902271630.AA01924@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990228091501.2fef51f6@intellistar.net> At 11:30 AM 2/27/99 -0500, you wrote: > >It was a dual processor with z80 and 8088, the bus as not PC (ISA) and it >allowed 768 or 825Kw of ram. It was color medium resolution when the PC >was still mono. It's noteable in that it ran CP/M-80, CP/M-86 and MSdos. >When Running CP/M86 or MSdos the z80 is still operational and services IO >for the 8088 giveing it better performance for it's day. Yes, and it used 5 1/4" disks but they were single sided with 80 tracks and 400K capacity per disks. Definity NOT IBM compatible. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 28 09:50:48 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: MAC 128 Re: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: References: <199902280028.TAA27985@platy.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19990228095048.2fe7d45a@intellistar.net> Zane, What's a MAC 128 worth to you? I know where there are a couple. Joe At 08:20 PM 2/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >>I'm open to suggestions on additions and deletions. My current rule > >I think at least some Mac's are something to keep an eye out for. I >haven't seen a Mac 128 since they were new! I've only seen one Mac >Portable ever. Any Mac that is in something other than a Mac case is also >a definite grab! There were kits to do it, but I've never seen one (or if >I have, didn't realize it). > >VAX Hardware at least is worth grabbing, but as was pointed out to me >today, if you don't know what you're looking at it is hard to know what to >grab. DEC Alpha's are actively being looked for by a lot of people, but >aren't "Classic". > >Some Dot matrix printers can be desirable, I spent well over 6 months >looking for a DEC LA75 or equivalent, then when I ordered one, a friend >gave me one :^) With printers it is a question of what you're doing with >the hardware. > >Don't forget that documentation and software can be even more important to >save than the hardware. Also powersupplies for things such as VIC-20's, >and other popular 8-bit computer of the 80's. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun Feb 28 08:25:09 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: >Fred Cisin wrote: >>Commodore made some PC clones; but other than those, the Commodore disk >>formats (Pet, 20, 64, 128, Amiga, ...) are NOT possible to do with >>unmodified PC hardware. The Amiga disks are MFM, but they have a sector >>header structure that is not compatible with the FDC. Compaticard will >>NOT provide the necessary hardware capability, although MatchPoint, >>CatWeasel, Apple Turnover, or CP Option board MIGHT. I doubt that >>Teledisk has support for Matchpoint, Turnover, Option board, or CatWeasel. > >CatWeasel can read Amiga disks, that is it's main selling point on the PC. >Does anyone have any experience with it on the PC side? Thier web page CAN >NOT be trusted. I bought the Amiga verison expecting to be able to read >all the different formats advertised only to discover that it did not >include the necessary software. I consider that false advertising. It >will read C-1541 disks quite nicely on the Amiga though, but IIRC that is >IT! I have a Central Point Option Board, still in the box though, I haven't tried it yet. It says 400k and 800k all formats, but I thought that was just Mac formats. Anybody know if this board had later software to handle 1.44 MB floppies? From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 08:45:01 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> >One table contains all the information in the "PDP-11 Field Guide" >with the DEC Module ID as the key. I have updated this with >corrected information and 3rd party vendor information as I come >across it. If you have changes, please send them to Ron Copley... >By the way, the PDP-11 Field Guide has been maintained by Ron Copley, >but I haven't heard from him for months/years. I highly recommend I've been in contact with him recently because I have been doing a fair amount of work on it recently, adding information, adding s second section which is sorted by option name (instead of module number) and adding documention references. I've been sending all the work I've been doing to Ron, who has some stuff he has been doing to it as well. If you have info, please send it to him so it can be consolidated... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From fauradon at pclink.com Sun Feb 28 08:57:01 1999 From: fauradon at pclink.com (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II Message-ID: <001601be632a$9b2c4aa0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Hey, Not all of us can find Altairs. So I had to brag about whatever it is that I got. (I would prefer to brag about an Altair though) How many of have the IBM PCjr Carrying Case? Francois >Francois, > > Whatever floats your boat! > > Joe > >At 09:25 AM 2/27/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Fine, >>I got a complete PCjr with pretty much all of the peripherals ever made for >>it, two joysticks, color monitor, a box of software and the carrying case. >>So there! >>Francois >> >> From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 08:55:19 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? Message-ID: <199902281455.AA15147@world.std.com> Does anyone have any information on the KA630 CNF board? It is used both with KA630s and KA650s to configure them for coprocessor mode. Since I have never actually seen the board (which plugs into the KA630/650 directory), I'd specifically like to know what pins I need to connect to establish the processor as the first, second and third coprocessor... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jlwest at tseinc.com Sun Feb 28 08:52:48 1999 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Pre-Rescue scouting mission - info needed (nicolet, Decitek, and DG) Message-ID: <005301be632a$03654fa0$0101a8c0@jay> I decided to run over to the surplus store this morning for a closer look at the nicolet. It's in the front window so even though they're closed I could get a good look at it. I also saw some other gear I never really noticed before and would like to ask the list members for info. 1) Nicolet There are two units. The first is a model NIC-80 Data Processor. It looks identical to the unit on sellam's website. There's three rows of lights labelled AC (18 lights +1 L light), IR, and PC. Below that is a set of switches for the SR (switch register?). Top left is a "sweeps complete" display. There's two yellow buttons in the upper right labelled "data processor". Top center is a row of buttons labelled 'memory allocation', with labels off to the left and right of "start" and "size" respectively. There is a rotary knob labelled "vertical display scale", and several buttons below that labelled 'ADC resolution'. Below that is two knobs labelled Constant A and Constant B. Across the bottom are buttons for step, deposit, examine, load PC, single ins, continue, and start. Finally on the bottom right there are two buttons called Execute and Stop. Bottom right is AC power keyswitch. The second unit is a Nicolet model NIC-298 "diskette storage unit". It has two 8" floppy drives. There's a row of lights vertically on the side called read, write, and ltrack. There's an unlabelled pushbutton on the upper right, and the lower right is a power switch. Questions: The cpu definitely says model NIC-80. How does this relate to the model sellam has? More to the point, can someone tell me about operation of this unit with regards to what OS it ran, what compilers or languages, etc. Did one hook up a terminal to this or was it just console input? What made this unit different from more well known computers (ie. what was it's specialty)? Most importantly, is any real documentation around on this unit (operators guide, schematics, logic diagrams, programming info)? 2) Paper tape reader There was what appeared to be a paper tape reader. Had the leftbay/rightbay arrangement like a PDP PC04/05 with the read cells in the center. The brand name appears to be Decitek. There were two switches in the center, one was a toggle for power, the other I couldn't make out. I could easily be mistaken, but the bays looked much wider than a PC04/05, making me wonder if it took wider paper tape than I'm used to seeing. Questions: Anyone have any ideas what type of system this was compatible with, what type of interface it might use, and does anyone have docs for it? 3) Data General Mag Tape Unit There is a DG 1/2" mag tape unit there too. The unit is about 13" tall by 19" wide, with a clear blue plastic cover. The takeup reel is on the left, and it looks like it supports a very slightly smaller than normal 1/2" tape reel (but larger than the little 8" jobs). The other hub is on the right for your tape. There is a row of controls down the center sticking through the blue cover. The top is a rocker switch for power, next is a group of two lights marked 'ready' and 'write protect'. Lower is another group of two lights marked 'bot' and 'eot'. Next is a rocker switch marked 'unload' on the left and 'bot' on the right. At the very bottom is an offline/online rocker switch, and a light on the online side. Questions: There's no model on this unit I could see from the front. Anyone hazard a guess as to the model number? What type of DG was this usually used on, what interface does it use (pertec, scsi, proprietary, etc.), could it be used on other systems (till I get a DG :) ), and are there any docs available? Finally - I'm still trying to decide if I want to get all of this or some of it (depends on the prices, when I looked today none of this stuff was marked so I'll have to ask the owner). If there's any of it I decide I don't want that others here are interested in - let me know! Jay West From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun Feb 28 08:43:25 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers >that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen >bigger ones I have a "box" of 30 pin simms, most are 1 MB, a few are 256k, and a few are 4 MB, and I have both parity and nonparity versions. Of the 4 MB most are 60 or 70 nsec devices. I cheerfully sell off the 1 mb simms, wish I could sell 256k, but have started to hoard the 4 MB for myself or systems I build. 1 MB I sell for $1, $3/(4 simms), $5/(8 simms) all plus actual postage. I am looking for some IIfx 64 pin (not AST) simms, and toy with the idea of some 30 pin 16 MB simms (but I am too cheap). From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun Feb 28 08:48:41 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: References: from Message-ID: >If it looks like a PC-clone (vertical metal strips for the expansion >slots at the back), then it's either a boring PC-clone or one of the >_very_ interesting Whitechapel machines :-)... > >Seriously, PC-clones shouldn't be too hard to recogise, particularly if >you can look inside the case. PC clones I can avoid without regret, its the S100 chassis that litter some swapmeets I wonder about. Or for example one of my friends recently scrapped for gold a bunch of older Sun spares (out of the sealed static bags and padded boxes, and into the scrap bins). Lots of those 2900 series chips in that batch. From mikeford at netwiz.net Sun Feb 28 08:59:04 1999 From: mikeford at netwiz.net (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <199902272107.AA26334@world.std.com> Message-ID: > >You can still buy 30pin simms (256k, 1mb, 4mb) from JDR. the 4mb parts are >scarce and finding them for less than 10$ is hard. The 1mb parts are like >flies and they can be had for nearly nothing. > >Allison 4mb is pretty common around SoCal swapmeets at $6, sometimes a bit more for 4 or 8 matched sets. From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Feb 28 09:25:24 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <4.1.19990228102104.009bdd50@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:45 AM 2/28/99 -0500, Megan said something like: >I've been in contact with him recently because I have been doing a >fair amount of work on it recently, adding information, adding s >second section which is sorted by option name (instead of module >number) and adding documention references. I've been sending all >the work I've been doing to Ron, who has some stuff he has been >doing to it as well. If you have info, please send it to him so >it can be consolidated... Hi Megan, Is Ron still at copley1@marshall.edu? That's the address I can still find on the http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware /field-guide.txt. I have a couple of things to ask and add. Thanks, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa From gareth.knight2 at which.net Sat Feb 27 17:48:05 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter Message-ID: <005401be6331$1befcbc0$6680fea9@gaz> Max Eskin wrote: >Nooo...imagine a 3.5" floppy disk chopped in half and you'd be getting the >idea. I may have one of these somewhere. If it's the one I'm thinking of, they were used on some of the old Amstrad CPC and PCW's. Are they black in colour? -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 10:13:08 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <199902281613.AA21150@world.std.com> >Is Ron still at copley1@marshall.edu? That's the address I can still find >on the >http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware >/field-guide.txt. I have a couple of things to ask and add. Yep, he's still there... If you want to take a look at some of what I've been doing with the guide (my copy of it... not the 'official' version), you can check it out at: http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_handbooks.txt (There is also a link to it from my home_systems page) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu Sun Feb 28 10:40:38 1999 From: ckaiser at oa.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: New discoveries at the Secret Weapons of Commodore In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Feb 27, 99 11:28:05 pm Message-ID: <199902281640.IAA09590@oa.ptloma.edu> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/33898ca4/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Sun Feb 28 10:44:47 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? Message-ID: <19990228164503.AAA7982@2Cust14.tnt22.dfw5.da.uu.net> Hi Megan, ---------- > From: Megan > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: KA630 CNF? > Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 7:55 AM > > > Does anyone have any information on the KA630 CNF board? It is used > both with KA630s and KA650s to configure them for coprocessor mode. All I have, is the KA630-AA CPU Module User's Guide. > Since I have never actually seen the board (which plugs into the > KA630/650 directory), I'd specifically like to know what pins I > need to connect to establish the processor as the first, second and > third coprocessor... If i read that right, there are 10 switches on this board. Switch 7 & 8 are defined as: 7 8 off off Arbiter on off auxiliary 1 off on auxiliary 2 on on auxiliary 3 Switch 7 is connected to pin 4 of the J2 connector (20 pin connector) Switch 8 is connected to pin 5 of the J2 connector. Don't have any of this boards, simply out of the manual. Hope it helps, emanuel From william at ans.net Sun Feb 28 10:55:00 1999 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: IBM mainframes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anyone have an idea what these IBM model numbers > are like more precisely ?? > > 3380- AD/AE DL131 BE4 [lots of model numbers] > 3390 "2" A28 > > I am particularly concerned about disks inside these machines; > is there anything known ? Is any documentation available ? Really heavy, and at one point, really large (in capacity). To use any of these DASDs (yes, they are only hard disks, not whole mainframes), you would need the controllers - 3880 and 3890. The drives themselves will not do much on their own. I hope you are not thinking about those 3380s and 3390s on eBay right now - $500 a piece?!!?!?!! William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 11:40:57 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <199902281613.AA21150@world.std.com> References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: > http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_handbooks.txt Now that is a COOL list, I gather that if there were newer PDP-11 hardware books than 1986 that you would have them. I take it I've been looking for something that doesn't exist. However, the Field Guide link is: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdpfg.txt :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 11:52:08 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Pre-Rescue scouting mission - info needed (nicolet, Decitek, and DG) In-Reply-To: <005301be632a$03654fa0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Jay West wrote: > 1) Nicolet > There are two units. The first is a model NIC-80 Data Processor. It looks > identical to the unit on sellam's website. There's three rows of lights <...> The description sounds very close (btw, the web site Jay refers to is an unpublished preliminary page on the Nicolet 1080 machine I have in my collection...I really need to finish the page). > The second unit is a Nicolet model NIC-298 "diskette storage unit". It has > two 8" floppy drives. There's a row of lights vertically on the side called > read, write, and ltrack. There's an unlabelled pushbutton on the upper > right, and the lower right is a power switch. > Questions: The cpu definitely says model NIC-80. How does this relate to the > model sellam has? More to the point, can someone tell me about operation of I think this may be an 1180. The 1080 generally didn't have floppies for it as it was from the early to mid 70s. Mine has a paper tape interface and a hard disk interface to a Diablo 30. > this unit with regards to what OS it ran, what compilers or languages, etc. I have a couple hundred paper tapes with all sorts of debuggers, assemblers, BASIC, I think Forth, and other applications (including some games). > Did one hook up a terminal to this or was it just console input? What made On the back is an RS-232 serial interface. You can hook a dumb terminal to it as a system console. > this unit different from more well known computers (ie. what was it's > specialty)? Most importantly, is any real documentation around on this unit > (operators guide, schematics, logic diagrams, programming info)? It was a 20-bit architecture. The CPU was built from TTL (the boards that make up the CPU are shown on my website). It was built mainly for data acquisition and analysis in a lab environment. I have a pretty complete documentation set, including programming guide, operators guide, etc. No schematics as far as I know but there's a whole box of docs at my warehouse that I haven't looked at in a while. > 2) Paper tape reader > There was what appeared to be a paper tape reader. Had the leftbay/rightbay > arrangement like a PDP PC04/05 with the read cells in the center. The brand > name appears to be Decitek. There were two switches in the center, one was a > toggle for power, the other I couldn't make out. I could easily be mistaken, > but the bays looked much wider than a PC04/05, making me wonder if it took > wider paper tape than I'm used to seeing. How funny. I got this very paper tape reader with my Nicolet. I wonder if it was standard issue from Nicolet? There's nothing special about it. It uses standard sized paper tape (was there such a thing as "wide" paper tape?) > Questions: Anyone have any ideas what type of system this was compatible > with, what type of interface it might use, and does anyone have docs for it? As with most any other mini of the day, it wasn't compatible with anything. It was a proprietary computer system designed and built by Nicolet Instrumentation Corporation in Madison, Wisconsin. > Finally - I'm still trying to decide if I want to get all of this or some of > it (depends on the prices, when I looked today none of this stuff was marked > so I'll have to ask the owner). If there's any of it I decide I don't want > that others here are interested in - let me know! I'm certainly interested in the Nicolet and drives! Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 28 11:55:36 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II References: <001601be632a$9b2c4aa0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <36D98318.2E375483@rain.org> Francois wrote: > > Hey, > Not all of us can find Altairs. So I had to brag about whatever it is that I > got. (I would prefer to brag about an Altair though) > How many of have the IBM PCjr Carrying Case? I have one, and was really surprised when I got it that a carrying case was even made for the PC Jr. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 28 10:21:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 27, 99 07:57:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/70171042/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 28 10:23:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: from "Max Eskin" at Feb 27, 99 11:10:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 727 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/89533069/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 28 10:28:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 27, 99 08:20:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1477 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/bf4bf089/attachment.ksh From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Feb 28 12:05:33 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36D9856D.D9B13665@halcyon.com> I did try to communicate with him a while back. I sent him what I had at the time. He said he would get back to me, but never did. You really don't need to add a second section sorted by option name if it's in a table (even a spreadsheet). Just sort on the column you want. This avoids redundant, and possibly incorrect, data in the second section. I'll be happy to help consolidate whatever I have and would like to get the efforts of everyone else who may have contributions. Dave Megan wrote: > > >One table contains all the information in the "PDP-11 Field Guide" > >with the DEC Module ID as the key. I have updated this with > >corrected information and 3rd party vendor information as I come > >across it. > > If you have changes, please send them to Ron Copley... > > >By the way, the PDP-11 Field Guide has been maintained by Ron Copley, > >but I haven't heard from him for months/years. I highly recommend > > I've been in contact with him recently because I have been doing a > fair amount of work on it recently, adding information, adding s > second section which is sorted by option name (instead of module > number) and adding documention references. I've been sending all > the work I've been doing to Ron, who has some stuff he has been > doing to it as well. If you have info, please send it to him so > it can be consolidated... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Feb 28 12:08:28 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281613.AA21150@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36D9861C.F96FCAB@halcyon.com> Actually, although he may still respond to the marshall address, I have him at mailto://number6@ezwv.com. Dave Megan wrote: > > >Is Ron still at copley1@marshall.edu? That's the address I can still find > >on the > >http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware > >/field-guide.txt. I have a couple of things to ask and add. > > Yep, he's still there... > > If you want to take a look at some of what I've been doing with the > guide (my copy of it... not the 'official' version), you can check it > out at: > > http://world.std.com/~mbg/dec_handbooks.txt > > (There is also a link to it from my home_systems page) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Feb 28 12:10:27 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Mass Teledisk group buy OPEN AGAIN! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990228101027.009538b0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> The Teledisk Pro group buy is growing larger by the minute. Here's an update. Based on continued strong interest, I have decided to extend the buy to TWO copies of Teledisk Pro. I will continue (barring any objections) as the focal point for both copies. NEW DEADLINE: If you want in on the group buy, please send me a private E-mail note indicating as much. The deadline to send in your request is by Wednesday, March 3rd, at midnight (Pacific time). That should allow enough time for this bulletin to circulate on the list. UPDATED COSTS: As of Sunday, 28-Feb-99, 10:05 PST, we have 38 people interested. This brings the cost down to about $7.98 per person. This assumes a total cost of $300 for two packages plus $3 shipping (303 / 38). THIS FIGURE MAY GO DOWN if more people jump onto the bandwagon. I will post updates as they occur. As of 10:08 PST, Sunday, Feb. 28th, we have 12 (Twelve) license shares still available. Thanks again to all for your interest. This is certainly a cheap way to get a nice utility. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Feb 28 12:20:23 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Group buy update Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990228102023.00956e30@mail.bluefeathertech.com> As of 10:18, Sunday, Feb. 28th, another one's joined the group. We now have 11 shares left. Total cost per share, given the current group, is now $7.77 (oooh, a lucky number!) ;-) It only goes down from here, folks. If you want in, speak up. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From max82 at surfree.com Sun Feb 28 12:23:16 1999 From: max82 at surfree.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Interesting typewriter In-Reply-To: <005401be6331$1befcbc0$6680fea9@gaz> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, Gareth Knight wrote: >I may have one of these somewhere. If it's the one I'm thinking of, they >were used on some of the old Amstrad CPC and PCW's. Are they black in >colour? I don't know. I only saw the drive. --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From mark_k at iname.com Sun Feb 28 11:49:30 1999 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: DECstation 316 Message-ID: Hi, (This isn't really on-topic. If anyone knows of a place or mailing list which covers obsolete but not classic computers, please let me know.) Today I picked up a DECstation 316. Since I'm in the UK, this European model may or may not be the same as the DECstation 316 machine which was sold in the US. This is a 386SX-based PC, presumably running at 16MHz. Useful to me because it has 4 ISA slots. The machine came with 5MB RAM and an IBM 171MB disk drive, probably added as an upgrade after purchase. This PC seems to be a rebadged Olivetti; motherboard, PSU and BIOS code say Olivetti. A label on the rear of the unit says Model:PC 651-A3 CMOS battery is almost dead, but the machine seems to work okay. Though when I first tried it the Base unit system test (part of the power-on tests) reported an error. Now it doesn't. There is no reset button on this machine, and it came with a somewhat nonstandard DEC LK250 keyboard. Things I would like to find out: - Does anyone have setup disks for this machine? I downloaded a DECstation 316 setup disk from the Digital web site, but the SPEED316.COM program on that reports "SPEED316 ONLY WORKS ON A DECstation 316." (Which is why I suspect the American machine of the same name is different.) - There is no predefined setting in the BIOS setup menu for the 171MB IBM hard disk (which is IBM-H3171-A2 P/N: 84G3902). There doesn't seem to be a way to set user-defined drive type. What can I do about this? - Does anyone have docs for this machine? There is one jumper and a 26-way IDC connector on the motherboard. What are these for? How is the drive cage supposed to be removed? I can't see any way to do this. -- Mark From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Feb 28 12:33:47 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Sord Socius Message-ID: A magnification from one of my other posts: Prior to doing a websearch, has anyone on The List any info about the Sord Socius machine that I brought back from TRW? It appears to be in the same evolutionary tree as the early NEC APC series, ie; it uses soldered-in 8086 and 8087 (haven't looked for multiples) and twin 8" drives vertically mounted to the right of a 12" color monitor in a large case with seperate keyboard. Like the APC as well, is built like the proverbial masonry defecatorium. I also have the original (OS?) disk and another, that were in the drives. Cheerz John PS: I am just going out to unpack the haul from TRW, and I will fire up the Nicolet scope and see if it works... From pechter at pechter.ddns.org Sun Feb 28 12:47:00 1999 From: pechter at pechter.ddns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Feb 28, 1999 6:43:25 am" Message-ID: <199902281847.NAA02781@pechter.ddns.org> > >Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers > >that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen > >bigger ones > > I have a "box" of 30 pin simms, most are 1 MB, a few are 256k, and a few > are 4 MB, and I have both parity and nonparity versions. Of the 4 MB most > are 60 or 70 nsec devices. I cheerfully sell off the 1 mb simms, wish I > could sell 256k, but have started to hoard the 4 MB for myself or systems I > build. 1 MB I sell for $1, $3/(4 simms), $5/(8 simms) all plus actual > postage. > > I am looking for some IIfx 64 pin (not AST) simms, and toy with the idea of > some 30 pin 16 MB simms (but I am too cheap). I purchased 16mb of 64 pin IIfx simms about six months ago for about $80... this made a rather nice internet compatible IIfx which runs Netscape and IE quite nicely with MacOS 7.6. Bill --- Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.nws.net|pechter@pechter.ddns.org From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 28 11:14:16 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: 30-pin SIMMS Message-ID: <19990228191943825.AAA206@fuj03> Originally, the SIPP was considered much more reliable than the SIMM. The SIMM sockets were a new product at that time and failure rates were pretty high, and it was easy to package a system more densely with SIPPs than with SIMM's. It was easy to bend the pins on the SIPP's, though, and retailers soon tired of having to hand-hold customers whose problems were simply bent pins, as, once bent, the pins tended to bend again and again until they were broken and repair was improbably if at all possible. Consequently, SIMMs, though less reliable but easier to install, and less likely, in either event, to sustain long-term damage took over the market. Ultimately, socket problems were defeated by persistence, educating the user public, and improved socketing technology. Dick ---------- > From: Max Eskin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: 30-pin SIMMS > Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 9:10 PM > > On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > >A SIPP is exactly a SIMM with pins soldered on - even the pinouts are the > >same. And thus SIPPs suffer from bent pins, just like individual chips > >do. That's why they went out of fashion. > > But why did anyone attach the pins in the first place? > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Feb 28 13:56:54 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Kaypro err msg Message-ID: Since I have no maint docs, does anyone know what the error message "System Status 02" mean during a Kaypro 10 boot? The ROM signs on, CP/m signs on and then it hangs with that message. ROM 1.9e CP/m V 2.2F 10M ready light is on, Floppy light is on, floppy does not access, keyboard clicks but no effect. multiple resets return to the same state. Cheerz and Thanks John From van at freedonia.com Sun Feb 28 14:10:22 1999 From: van at freedonia.com (van burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: schematics useful to anyone In-Reply-To: <36D776D4.2818@swbell.net> References: <990226163934.21c0046d@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: Hi Mitch... I would love the TI/994A schematics if noone has claimed them yet... xoxo van >Folks, > > I have photocopies of TI 99/4A schematics and two or three revs of the >corvus concept. Would these be useful to anyone? > >Regards, Mitch Wright van burnham + proclaiming the end of ascii art From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 28 14:23:04 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: (message from Mike Ford on Sun, 28 Feb 1999 06:25:09 -0800) References: <3.0.5.32.19990227070539.00944510@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <19990228202304.28590.qmail@brouhaha.com> Mike Ford wrote: > I have a Central Point Option Board, still in the box though, I haven't > tried it yet. It says 400k and 800k all formats, but I thought that was > just Mac formats. Anybody know if this board had later software to handle > 1.44 MB floppies? If you want to know whether the Option Board works with a 1440K *drive*, I don't know, but it might. I'm pretty sure the "Deluxe" model does. If you want to know whether the Option Board works with 1440K Macintosh diskettes, the answer is that you don't need an Option Board for that. The Macintosh 1440K media format (known as SuperDrive or FDHD) is exactly the same as the PC 1440K format. All you need is suitable software. There is free HFS support for Linux. Maybe there might also be freeware or shareware to use Macintosh 1440K diskette under DOS or Windows, but I haven't looked. Eric From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Feb 28 14:26:55 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Teledisk Buy Update: 7 shares left! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990228122655.00965830@mail.bluefeathertech.com> There are 7 (seven) shares left in the Teledisk group buy. We now have 43 total interested. Approximate share price is now down to $7.05/person. More updates as we get closer to closing the second run. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 14:43:37 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board In-Reply-To: <19990228202304.28590.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: (message from Mike Ford on Sun, 28 Feb 1999 06:25:09 -0800) Message-ID: >Maybe there might also be freeware or shareware to use Macintosh 1440K >diskette under DOS or Windows, but I haven't looked. Rumor has it that there is something along these lines. Since use a Mac and Windows I've never looked into it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 28 14:43:06 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? In-Reply-To: <199902281455.AA15147@world.std.com> (mbg@world.std.com) References: <199902281455.AA15147@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990228204306.28685.qmail@brouhaha.com> Megan asks: > Does anyone have any information on the KA630 CNF board? Only what's in the KA630-AA CPU Module User's Guide > Since I have never actually seen the board (which plugs into the > KA630/650 directory), I'd specifically like to know what pins I > need to connect to establish the processor as the first, second and > third coprocessor... On pages 2-7 and 2-8, it says that switches 7 and 8 of the KA630CNF preform that function, and that they are wired to KA630-AA J2 pins 4 and 5, which are called "CPU CD0 L" and "CPU CD1 L". The switch settings are documented as KA630CNF switch 7 8 CPU Operation Mode KA630-AA J2 pin 4 5 Off Off Arbiter [normal] On Off Auxilliary 1 Off On Auxilliary 2 On On Auxilliary 3 So I'd guess that if you grounded J2 pin 4, your KA630 would become Auxilliary 1. Ground is available on J2 pins 1-3, 6, 12, and 16. Other switch settings are: KA630CNF switch 1 Halt Mode KA630-AA J2 pin 15 Off Disabled On Enabled KA630CNF switch 2 3 4 Console Baud Rate KA630-AA J2 pin 17 18 19 Off Off Off 300 On Off Off 600 Off On Off 1200 On On Off 2400 Off Off On 4800 On Off On 9600 Off On On 19200 On On On 38400 KA630CNF switch 5 6 9 10 Power-Up Mode KA630-AA J2 pin 13 14 Off Off On Off Normal Operation On Off On Off Language Inquiry Mode Off On Off On Loopback Test Mode On On On Off Manufacturing use only, bypasses memory test Notes: According to the manual, other settings for switches 5, 6, 9, and 10 should not be used. The manual lists switches 9 and 10 as being connected to KA630-AA J3 pins 3 and 8. However, I suspect that they are wired such that switch 9 when off disconnects the normal receive input, and switch 10 when on connects the loopback. I don't have prints to confirm this. The diganostic LEDs are driven by J2 pins 7, 8, 9, and 11, with 11 being the most significant bit. +5V is available on J2 pin 20. +10V is supplied from the BBU (battery) to the TOY (real time clock) via J2 pin 10. From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Feb 28 15:04:22 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990228140421.0072f278@cadvision.com> At 01:45 PM 2/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >>If it looks like a PC-clone (vertical metal strips for the expansion >>slots at the back), then it's either a boring PC-clone or one of the >>_very_ interesting Whitechapel machines :-)... > >It could also be one of the nice big-box Amiga's, though I think only the >A2000's match that specific description. Not sure about the layout of a >A4000. > Of course, since _all_ Amigas have either a "Commodore Amiga" or "Amiga" nameplate on the front, that shouldn't cause too much confusion :v) (except of course for one that my friend owned that had a VAXstation label ... ). Cheers. Mark From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 14:53:31 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? Message-ID: <199902282053.AA01168@world.std.com> "emanuel stiebler" wrote": >If i read that right, there are 10 switches on this board. Switch 7 & 8 >are defined as: > >7 8 >off off Arbiter >on off auxiliary 1 >off on auxiliary 2 >on on auxiliary 3 > >Switch 7 is connected to pin 4 of the J2 connector (20 pin connector) >Switch 8 is connected to pin 5 of the J2 connector. Thanks... I'll have to recheck the manual, I guess I missed it. Now I have to figure out what 'off' means... shorting pin 4 to what other pin (shorted low or high). I'm thinking of trying a KA630 as a coprocessor in a qbus pdp-11 system. The KA650 manual mentions using the same board, but it says that only the off-off configuration is supported. I wonder if the KA650 can be a co-processor as well... But then, the KA650 doesn't have on-board memory. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rexstout at uswest.net Sun Feb 28 15:01:14 1999 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS In-Reply-To: <199902272342.RAA08055@thorin.cs.umn.edu> References: from John Rollins at "Feb 27, 1999 03:14:45 pm" Message-ID: >Now that is absurd pricing. Data Memory Systems will sell you a 30 pin >16 meg simm for $29, not that absurd $160 you mention. 4 meg are $10. Ouch! A lot of messages to go through... I should check me mail more often. Yes, I've noticed that MacWarehouse has some absolutley HORRIBLE prices, both for hardware and software... I haven't seen 16MB SIMMs going for $30, but another catalog I have around here that I haven't been able to find yet has them four around $40... Too bad my Mac IIvx is destroyed(stupid leaking water pipes...), or I would have a VERY nice machine... I just have a hard time when looking at a machine with 68MB RAM(max for the IIvx) and an 80MB hard drive(no reason not to upgrade to one of those $100 4GB drives though...). Or if you like a nice fast hard drive(say in the 60-80ns range), go to a 40MB RAM drive :-) Hmm... How old is the IIvx, anyways? It should be approaching the 10 year mark any year now :-) Those poor little 68030's... The computer industry can be so cruel... -------------------------------------------------------------- | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | | ham-mac@qth.net Portland, OR | -------------------------------------------------------------- From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 15:03:10 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <199902282103.AA06494@world.std.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >Now that is a COOL list, I gather that if there were newer PDP-11 >hardware books than 1986 that you would have them. I take it I've been >looking for something that doesn't exist. Thanks... I was on an automatic distribution list at one point, but it was difficult to stay on it (they kept requiring justification, and it got tedious)... But I tried to get a copy of every book I saw or heard about. I'm sure I missed lots of them (damn). One other problem was that I made my collection available (in my office) as a sort of library for anyone to make use of... sometimes people didn't return books... There were, however, the following for pdp-11s after 1986: 1986: PDP-11 Architecture Handbook 1983-84 Published 1986 Copyright 1983 EB 23657 18/86 12 27/43 20.0 Supermicrosystems Handbook Features MicroVAX II, MicroVAX I MicroPDP-11/83, MicroPDP-11/73, MicroPDP-11/23 Published 1986 Copyright 1986 EB 27713 41/86B 08 08/36 75.0 1987: Realtime Component Products Handbook Published 1987 Copyright 1985 EB 26078 41/87 07 43 15.0 PDP-11 Systems Handbook Featuring: MicroPDP-11/83, MicroPDP-11/73 MicroPDP-11/53, PDP-11/84 Published 1987 Copyright 1987 EB 29317 41/87 11 36 >However, the Field Guide link is: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdpfg.txt :^) Sorry about that... I guess I figured people would get to it from the home_systems page... (another shameless plug)... :-) But you're right... The whole collection currently takes up about 12 linear feet of shelf space. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 28 15:34:24 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <9902281304.ZM29553@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990228133105.00b0f170@mcmanis.com> Now we're getting somewhere! At 01:04 PM 2/28/99 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: >Both of my ExaByte 8200's have black faceplates. However, the LEDs are >side-by-side about 1.25" from the left side of the drive, and the button is >on the right. This describes my drive as well, two LEDs side by side on the left, button on the right. >When the drive is powered up, what do the LEDs do? Stay on solid until the CPU counts down to 5 (could be 4) then they go off. > If you press the button, does the front open to allow you to insert a tape, > like a miniature VHS machine? Wouldn't say a VHS machine (I've got an 8mm cam corder) but certainly the door opens and there is space in it to drop in the tape and then presumably close the door. > Or does it just have an open slot to slide a cartridge into? Nope, the 4MM DAT drive on my Sun is like that. This is not one of those. --Chuck From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 15:49:46 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902282149.AA05077@world.std.com> >You really don't need to add a second section sorted by option >name if it's in a table (even a spreadsheet). Just sort on the >column you want. This avoids redundant, and possibly incorrect, >data in the second section. That assumes one has a machine and machine-readable copy nearby. I keep a printed form with me... and having a section organized by option name is quite useful. Also, lots of module numbers don't have the associated option names yet (something I'd like to see fleshed out if possible). >I'll be happy to help consolidate whatever I have and would like >to get the efforts of everyone else who may have contributions. Ron's already doing it, let's coordinate with him... I understand he has some info from other sources as well... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 15:54:16 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? References: <199902281455.AA15147@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199902282154.AA07729@world.std.com> Eric Smith wrote: >Only what's in the KA630-AA CPU Module User's Guide I missed it in my quick search... >On pages 2-7 and 2-8, it says that switches 7 and 8 of the KA630CNF >preform that function, and that they are wired to KA630-AA J2 pins 4 and >5, which are called "CPU CD0 L" and "CPU CD1 L". > >The switch settings are documented as [...edited...] Thanks VERY Much... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Feb 28 16:07:00 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> <199902282149.AA05077@world.std.com> Message-ID: <36D9BE04.70B7A655@halcyon.com> Megan, You can embody the information in your second section by adding a "Type" to each module type (communications, memory, etc.). That's just another column in the table. Then it's easy to generate printed reports that look just like what you have. You can customize the report to include anything or any formatting you like. But it's MUCH easier to maintain the raw data when it's in a table (or spreadsheet). And then generate an updated report. I bet you don't ALWAYS carry the Field Guide around with you!? Really, ALWAYS?! I DO ALWAYS carry it around with me. It's in a spreadsheet on my pocket organizer, where I can easily refer to it when I'm out in the boonies in some junk yard and stumble across some obscure modules that interest me. (Well, you probably have the whole Field Guide memorized anyway, so it may not be as important for you!) Dave Megan wrote: > > >You really don't need to add a second section sorted by option > >name if it's in a table (even a spreadsheet). Just sort on the > >column you want. This avoids redundant, and possibly incorrect, > >data in the second section. > > That assumes one has a machine and machine-readable copy nearby. > I keep a printed form with me... and having a section organized > by option name is quite useful. > > Also, lots of module numbers don't have the associated option > names yet (something I'd like to see fleshed out if possible). > > >I'll be happy to help consolidate whatever I have and would like > >to get the efforts of everyone else who may have contributions. > > Ron's already doing it, let's coordinate with him... I understand > he has some info from other sources as well... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Feb 28 16:18:27 1999 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS References: from John Rollins at "Feb 27, 1999 03:14:45 pm" Message-ID: <36D9C0B3.54158C70@halcyon.com> The Mac IIvx was introduced on 10-19-92 and discontinued on 10-21-93, so you've got a while 'til it's officially "classic". It's probably a good candidate for a "classic II" model, since it was the last of the line. The IIci was certainly a dandy, too. Sometimes jumping the gun on the "classic" category (10 years) is a good idea, because you can think ahead and grab one while they're easily available. For example, my main Mac is a PowerBook 540c, near the end of the '40 laptop models, and I picked up a Quadra 950 (the premier '40 desktop/server) a couple of days ago for $1 out of a retailer's junk heap. The Quadra 840AV may be a worthy alternative for a classic in this line, but in a few years the 540c and the 950 will undoubtedly be "classics", both by definition and by design. Dave John Rollins wrote: > > >Now that is absurd pricing. Data Memory Systems will sell you a 30 pin > >16 meg simm for $29, not that absurd $160 you mention. 4 meg are $10. > Ouch! A lot of messages to go through... I should check me mail more often. > Yes, I've noticed that MacWarehouse has some absolutley HORRIBLE prices, > both for hardware and software... I haven't seen 16MB SIMMs going for $30, > but another catalog I have around here that I haven't been able to find yet > has them four around $40... Too bad my Mac IIvx is destroyed(stupid leaking > water pipes...), or I would have a VERY nice machine... I just have a hard > time when looking at a machine with 68MB RAM(max for the IIvx) and an 80MB > hard drive(no reason not to upgrade to one of those $100 4GB drives > though...). Or if you like a nice fast hard drive(say in the 60-80ns > range), go to a 40MB RAM drive :-) > Hmm... How old is the IIvx, anyways? It should be approaching the 10 year > mark any year now :-) Those poor little 68030's... The computer industry > can be so cruel... > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > | http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers | > | http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek | > | orham@qth.net list admin KD7BCY | > | ham-mac@qth.net Portland, OR | > -------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 17:01:39 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990228133105.00b0f170@mcmanis.com> References: <9902281304.ZM29553@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: >Wouldn't say a VHS machine (I've got an 8mm cam corder) but certainly the >door opens and there is space in it to drop in the tape and then presumably >close the door. If you can fit a 8mm Camcorder tape in there it's a 8mm Exabyte drive. People claim you can use the same tapes, I'm not one of them though, I use Data grade tapes in my 8mm drives. If you take the drive you it will say if it's a 8200 or a 8500. You've got a very nice sounding system there. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 17:05:42 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <36D9BE04.70B7A655@halcyon.com> References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> <199902282149.AA05077@world.std.com> Message-ID: >I bet you don't ALWAYS carry the Field Guide around with you!? >Really, ALWAYS?! I DO ALWAYS carry it around with me. It's Well, I don't always carry it. I've got a copy printed out that is about the size of a 3.5" floppy once I trimmed off the excess and folded it in thirds. Great what you can do when you print on a laser at about 50% :^) If I could figure out how to put it on my Pilot I would ALWAYS carry it with me! BTW, this is the one part of my collection that is inventoried. After finding out that I already had the controller I was trying to find, I decided it was necessary. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ss at allegro.com Sun Feb 28 17:18:21 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (ss@allegro.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Lucky Day II In-Reply-To: <001601be632a$9b2c4aa0$0100a8c0@fauradon.pclink.com> Message-ID: <199902282318.PAA24120@bart.allegro.com> > Not all of us can find Altairs. So I had to brag about whatever it is that I > got. (I would prefer to brag about an Altair though) > How many of have the IBM PCjr Carrying Case? I do...I'll glady trade it for al Altair :) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 17:24:02 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <199902282103.AA06494@world.std.com> References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: >1987: > Realtime Component Products Handbook > Published 1987 > Copyright 1985 > EB 26078 41/87 07 43 15.0 > > PDP-11 Systems Handbook > Featuring: MicroPDP-11/83, MicroPDP-11/73 > MicroPDP-11/53, PDP-11/84 > Published 1987 > Copyright 1987 > EB 29317 41/87 11 36 OK, I have the two from '86, but am curious about these two. Do they include information on the cards, or are they primarily programming information? I'm trying to figure out what I need to get information on the newer cards such as the RQDX3 (it's the one that comes to mind, as I didn't have the info and had to get it from someone else when I needed it). >Sorry about that... I guess I figured people would get to it from >the home_systems page... (another shameless plug)... :-) But you're >right... I checked it out after posting the last message, it's looking a lot better than the last time I checked it out! Still I can't believe you're torturing VAXen by forcing them to run UNIX :^) >The whole collection currently takes up about 12 linear feet of >shelf space. I wish I had that many! Thankfully I'm making progress, I've got enough that I can now figure a lot of stuff out for myself without asking stupid questions all the time. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 28 17:44:41 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:29 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: References: <36D9BE04.70B7A655@halcyon.com> <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990228153230.00b06680@mcmanis.com> At 03:05 PM 2/28/99 -0800, Zane wrote: >BTW, this is the one part of my collection that is inventoried. After >finding out that I already had the controller I was trying to find, I >decided it was necessary. I've met several collectors who are acquiring so fast and in such quantity that large chunks of their collection is effectively unknown to them. Me, I guess I'm to much of a specialist (PDP-8s until these microvaxes fell into my lap) I also thought the idea of an inventory was pretty unlikely for a variety of reasons, however there is something that would have real tangible value and this is the ultimate cross reference book. I've got both the "Pocket Reference" and "PC Pocket Reference" books and the latter is great to carry to swaps because you can often find stuff in it and know with authority what you are looking at. If we could figure out a way to put together the ultimate database of things (whether or not people had them) then we'd be on our way toward at least identifying things. Perhaps encapsulating what a lot of us do "normally". I imagine a web site and book with the ultimate computer database. The indexes that would be interesting are: 1) Manufacturer 2) Date 3) Subsystem (rotating storage, linear storage, random access, read only, communications, cpu, etc) 4) Bus type (Multibus, S-100, Q-bus, OMNIBUS, S-Bus, VME, etc) 5) etc I'd also have a "shadow" page that showed the outlines of the "standard" bus types so that boards could be identified by their outline. Suitably cross-referenced you'd have something invaluable. Now if we can get everyone on the internet to contribute one board or system, we'd have this thing built in about four months :-) --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 28 17:45:38 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: interesting, interesting." (Feb 28, 13:34) References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <9902282345.ZM563@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 28, 13:34, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 01:04 PM 2/28/99 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >Both of my ExaByte 8200's have black faceplates. However, the LEDs are > >side-by-side about 1.25" from the left side of the drive, and the button is > >on the right. > > This describes my drive as well, two LEDs side by side on the left, button > on the right. > > >When the drive is powered up, what do the LEDs do? > > Stay on solid until the CPU counts down to 5 (could be 4) then they go off. Sounds similar to my ExaBytes... > > If you press the button, does the front open to allow you to insert a tape, > > like a miniature VHS machine? > > Wouldn't say a VHS machine (I've got an 8mm cam corder) but certainly the > door opens and there is space in it to drop in the tape and then presumably > close the door. Hmmm... ExaBytes 8200's take an 8mm tape cartridge like a Video8 cartridge. > > Or does it just have an open slot to slide a cartridge into? > > Nope, the 4MM DAT drive on my Sun is like that. This is not one of those. I wasn't thinking of DAT, so much as the old DC300-type cartridges, which are much bigger. No matter, it's obviously neither DAT nor QIC. It sounds like an 8mm ExaByte to me. If it looks like it's 5.25" full-height, probably an 8200, maybe an 8500; if half-height, probably 8205, possibly 8505. I'd suggest you take a look at ExaByte's web pages and see if it matches one of their pictures. Try http://www.exabyte.com/suppserv/techsupp/8mm/fullhigh/ for starters. There's quite a good line drawing halfway down http://www.exabyte.com/suppserv/techsupp/8mm/fullhigh/in0111.html I've just noticed Zane mentioned camcorder tapes; they do work, but in my experience they're don't have quite the same long-term reliability. Oh, and they're a slightly different length. But they'd be OK for testing. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 28 17:50:20 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: interesting, interesting." (Feb 28, 13:34) References: <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <9902282350.ZM572@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 28, 13:34, Chuck McManis wrote: > Subject: Re: interesting, interesting. > Now we're getting somewhere! I just discovered that ExaByte have a useful web page called "Identifying Exabyte Tape Drives" at http://www.exabyte.com/suppserv/techsupp/8mm/misc/in0059.html -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Feb 28 17:59:07 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: <9902282345.ZM563@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Chuck McManis <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19990228155826.00a0bee0@mcmanis.com> That's it! At 11:45 PM 2/28/99 +0000, you wrote: >for starters. There's quite a good line drawing halfway down > > http://www.exabyte.com/suppserv/techsupp/8mm/fullhigh/in0111.html On this page at step 5 is a drawing of my tape drive. Waaay cool! --CHuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 18:19:10 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: Maxtor XT-4380E ESDI Hard Drive settings Message-ID: OK, I'm stumped. I'm finally getting around to adding one of the 380Mb ESDI HD's that I got to replace the 150Mb ones I've been using in my PDP-11/73. So I check out "The Tech Page" and while they've got the drive, they don't give any of the jumper settings. Does anyone happen to have the settings for this drive? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 28 15:30:49 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? In-Reply-To: <199902282053.AA01168@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Feb 28, 99 03:53:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 986 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19990228/dd25e511/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 28 18:22:26 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: Maxtor XT-4380E ESDI Hard Drive settings Message-ID: <19990301002600640.AAA149@fuj03> I've got the EXT-4000-series manual. I never owned one of the 4380's, though I tested a number. Miniscribe built a model 9380 which was quite similar, except that fewer than 10% of them would pass our tests. However, I used the 9380's for quite a while in my personal systems. There was once a military (air force, I believe) site called TheRef, which had much of this data, if you haven't the patience for me to look up the information you need. I recall there were quite a number of jumper options. If you can find me the desired configuration, I can give you the relevant jumpers and their effects. Dick ---------- > From: Zane H. Healy > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Maxtor XT-4380E ESDI Hard Drive settings > Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 5:19 PM > > OK, I'm stumped. I'm finally getting around to adding one of the 380Mb > ESDI HD's that I got to replace the 150Mb ones I've been using in my > PDP-11/73. So I check out "The Tech Page" and while they've got the drive, > they don't give any of the jumper settings. Does anyone happen to have the > settings for this drive? > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sun Feb 28 18:27:36 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:30 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. Message-ID: <19990301002600640.AAB149@fuj03> I've got both beige and black drives of this type. They were used in the Maynard line of tape drives, and are really quite widely used, though almost no PC-software supports them for "real" backups. Most of the software I've seen for '95 is limited to floppy tapes and SCSI-II or later drives. That's a shame, since the GOV went to this format after they learned that one little 8 mm tape will hold what it takes a pickup truck of the old open reel 6250 bpi tapes to hold. The button and lamp locations were quite varied, since exabyte purchased the mechanisms from SONY and they could be varied a bit. Dick ---------- > From: Chuck McManis > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: interesting, interesting. > Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 4:59 PM > > That's it! > > At 11:45 PM 2/28/99 +0000, you wrote: > >for starters. There's quite a good line drawing halfway down > > > > http://www.exabyte.com/suppserv/techsupp/8mm/fullhigh/in0111.html > > On this page at step 5 is a drawing of my tape drive. Waaay cool! > --CHuck > From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Feb 28 19:05:51 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:31 2005 Subject: DEC stuff Message-ID: One of the sub-goodies from the recent haul is a DEC CI-750 backplane in a 5-slot frame with three modules in it, though it is marked for five. 1. L0400 2. L0101 3. L0118 * (placarded for L0100) 4. L0101 * 5. L0400 * Where the * = occupied slot. The backplane has absurdly large 5V power leads (2 ea #8) and there are four coax cables coming from slot three backplane pins, all with a side-mounted fan. That's it. Also: The Nicolet scope is a 2090-III, and although there is a small trace of some kind on the screen, it is sorta autistic. :( Now to track down docs and fix it. O Goody!! Another Project!! Cheers and Thanks for all the help... John From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 19:13:37 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor XT-4380E ESDI Hard Drive settings In-Reply-To: <19990301002600640.AAA149@fuj03> Message-ID: >There was once a military (air force, I believe) site called TheRef, which >had much of this data, if you haven't the patience for me to look up the >information you need. I recall there were quite a number of jumper >options. If you can find me the desired configuration, I can give you the >relevant jumpers and their effects. I just did the "Guess and Pray I'm right" routine, and I seem to have been, it thinks it's drive one. Of course I disconnected Drive 2. I've now got it formated and am testing it with the diagnostics built into the WQESD controller. So far so good, and I didn't blow my boot disk away :^) However, I hunted up the web site you mention: http://theref.c3d.rl.af.mil/theref.html I think the next time I'm bored (about the year 2010) I'll have to spend some time checking it out. Looks fairly good, but it didn't go into any more depth on this drive than the other site. Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Feb 28 20:00:38 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: HP 9000 Basic Docs Message-ID: In a box I forgot about.. I have managed to acquire the following Hewlett-Packard manuals for the 9000 series 200: 1. Shared Resource Management HP Series 200 Workstation Manual 2. Basic 3.0 Language Reference 3. " Programming Techniques 4. " Interfacing Techniques 5. " Graphics Techniques 6. " Utilities Library Any interest? I don't want 'em.. got enough bokks around here now that actually pertain to things I'm doing.. ;} Cheers John From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 20:19:22 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> <199902282149.AA05077@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199903010219.AA19260@world.std.com> >You can embody the information in your second section by adding >a "Type" to each module type (communications, memory, etc.). >That's just another column in the table. Thanks, good idea... >Then it's easy to generate printed reports that look just like >what you have. You can customize the report to include anything >or any formatting you like. But it's MUCH easier to maintain >the raw data when it's in a table (or spreadsheet). And then >generate an updated report. I think I understand you now... I could simply have the one list with all modules, with the new 'type' field, and if I want to complete list, I simply do multiple extracts to one text file which I print. That way, there is the one list, no duplication of information (and increase in the chance that one of the two occurrances will not be up to date). >I bet you don't ALWAYS carry the Field Guide around with you!? >Really, ALWAYS?! I DO ALWAYS carry it around with me. It's Actually, yes... in a small, printed form -- takes up 4" x 5" by about 3/6" thick. I have my EMT protocols book in the same pocket... >in a spreadsheet on my pocket organizer, where I can easily >refer to it when I'm out in the boonies in some junk yard and >stumble across some obscure modules that interest me. (Well, >you probably have the whole Field Guide memorized anyway, so >it may not be as important for you!) I have yet to get a pocket organizer, but I'm seriously thinking about it... As for memorizing the list, well... I used to have a very good memory for at least the pdp-11 Qbus boards. I knew some of the general UNIBUS boards as well, but I didn't know specific processor boards for UNIBUS. I used to have a good memory of the jumpers for Qbus boards, too. But since 1992, I've done *very little* pdp-11 stuff for work (it still does crop up once in a while... I'm the last developer to have actually touched the RT-11 V5.6 sources to still work for Digit... er Compaq), and I've not been able to do as much pdp-11 stuff at home as I'd like... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer (Though I wish it could be 'current' :-) +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 20:33:37 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> <199902282149.AA05077@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199903010233.AA28099@world.std.com> >Well, I don't always carry it. I've got a copy printed out that is about >the size of a 3.5" floppy once I trimmed off the excess and folded it in >thirds. Great what you can do when you print on a laser at about 50% :^) Exactly what I do... The laser printer prints 4 pages per page (one sided), with lines around each page, and with two successive pages side by side. So I cut at the top, middle and bottom lines, producing two strips of two pages each. I then fold each strip in half and pile them up. When they're all done, I even them out and staple. Voila', a portable field guide. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 20:51:16 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <199903010251.AA09773@world.std.com> >OK, I have the two from '86, but am curious about these two. Do they >include information on the cards, or are they primarily programming >information? I'm trying to figure out what I need to get information on >the newer cards such as the RQDX3 (it's the one that comes to mind, as I >didn't have the info and had to get it from someone else when I needed >it). The 85 edition doesn't have the RQDX3, only the RQDX1. But I would suggest that Handbooks are not the only source of info... there are also all the -UG (user guide), -TM (technical manual) -RC (reference card) documents that are available. I do have one for the RQDX3. There are also manuals in small three-ring binders for uVax systems, and various qbus -11 systems. For example, I have one at hand -- "VAXstation II/GPX Hardware Information". Inside it is labelled "VAXstation II/GPX Owner's Manual, BA123 enclosure". This has a section on the processor and memory boards, but also has a section on available options, RQDX3 being on of them... AZ-GNGAA-MN as well as the "VAXstation II/GPX Technical Manual, BA123 Enclosure", AZ-GNFAA-MN >I checked it out after posting the last message, it's looking a lot >better than the last time I checked it out! Still I can't believe you're >torturing VAXen by forcing them to run UNIX :^) Thanks... I'll have to plead mercy considering my job is unix support. Having it running at home helps me for my job... >I wish I had that many! Thankfully I'm making progress, I've got enough >that I can now figure a lot of stuff out for myself without asking stupid >questions all the time. My next endeavor is to document the reference cards in my collection, then the actual pdp-11 documentation. Then I'll have to check the field service fiche I have to see what I have in there... I wish I had a fiche reader (I guess I could go to the library)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Sun Feb 28 20:56:42 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory References: <36D9BE04.70B7A655@halcyon.com> <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199903010256.AA12673@world.std.com> >I'd also have a "shadow" page that showed the outlines of the "standard" >bus types so that boards could be identified by their outline. Kind of line the charts 'plane-spotters' used... I'll go that one better... I've been thinking of taking pictures (now that I have a digital camera) of one each of all the qbus boards I have in my stock, so that people can see what they look like. I'm hoping someday to have 24/7 net access (Framingham cable isn't planning on cable net access for at least a year or two... they seem to be dragging their heels, and with them here, we can't have MediaOne or anyone else). Anyway, once I do, I plan on making as much info available as possible (and that I have time to do). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Watzman at ibm.net Sun Feb 28 20:56:29 1999 From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Stuff available Message-ID: <01BE6365.BFF984C0@slip-32-100-187-34.oh.us.ibm.net> The guy below has two IMSAI VDP-80's [parts from one of them are on E-Bay but probably won't sell, the better, complete one is not yet offered], a Newtronics ELF, and a SWTPC 6800. He just trashed a System 34 and a Burroughs L6000. If anyone wants the IMSAI, ELF or 6800, call him. You will have to buy the stuff, and pay shipping [the IMSAI is all but impossible to ship, it's best a "pick-up" job]. He's in New Orleans I think, but I'm not sure. Terry Freeman [SMTP:terryf@intersurf.com] From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 21:15:36 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Ron's addr. Was: Re: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <199903010251.AA09773@world.std.com> References: <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: >For example, I have one at hand -- "VAXstation II/GPX Hardware >Information". Inside it is labelled "VAXstation II/GPX Owner's >Manual, BA123 enclosure". This has a section on the processor >and memory boards, but also has a section on available options, >RQDX3 being on of them... I've got a "VAXstation II Hardware Information" binder, and consider it an invaluable source of info. For a long time it was my ONLY source of info. Unfortuantly all I've found is one that came with my VAXstation II/RC. >I'll have to plead mercy considering my job is unix support. Having >it running at home helps me for my job... I do the opposite, I'm only running UNIX on a couple of my machines at home because he helps me keep my sanity :^) If I could figure out how to get OpenVMS to do NAT/IP Masq, one of those would be switched to VMS. The other is used for general UNIX playing and for work. I can't wait for news on the new and improved Hobbyist Licenses. >then the actual pdp-11 documentation. Then I'll have to check the >field service fiche I have to see what I have in there... I wish >I had a fiche reader (I guess I could go to the library)... That was what brought on the original question of taking inventory. I've got a general mishmash of fiche that I want to get inventoried so I know what I've got on fiche. Thankfully I've got access to both fiche and film readers, but unfortunatly not copiers. I'd recommend finding a nice portable reader, that way you can have it near the equipment you're working on. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 21:20:58 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Thoughts on Taking Inventory In-Reply-To: <199903010256.AA12673@world.std.com> References: <36D9BE04.70B7A655@halcyon.com> <199902280248.SAA10258@fraser.sfu.ca> <199902281445.AA10941@world.std.com> Message-ID: >>I'd also have a "shadow" page that showed the outlines of the "standard" >>bus types so that boards could be identified by their outline. > >Kind of line the charts 'plane-spotters' used... > >I'll go that one better... I've been thinking of taking pictures (now >that I have a digital camera) of one each of all the qbus boards I >have in my stock, so that people can see what they look like. OUCH! That could be a lot of disk space and make a serious bandwidth sucking site! Having the site on a home machine takes care of the space problem, I just wouldn't want to have a bunch of people clogging up my line looking at boards. I don't know, maybe I'm overreacting. I've got to admit it's a cool idea. However, I really like the idea of a "Shadow" page, I could give stuff like that to the local recycler I do business with, he's totally clueless about what is good. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 21:30:29 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available In-Reply-To: <00ab01be6391$e3f2cae0$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Andrew Davie wrote: > Whilst aware that I'm breaching netiquette by copying personal email, I > think in this situation that Chris won't mind, as he's trying to sell these > items. I can't afford the prices he's asking (I'm not saying they're BAD > prices, nor am I saying they're GOOD. I just can't afford 'em), and felt > that rather than waste the time of both of us by attempting to significantly > haggle-down, I'd let everyone have-at him. > This guy is a total dweeb. He's been trying to sell that stuff for probably a year now. At least two different people I've talked to have tried and failed to deal with this boob. He just wants too much money for some very mundane stuff. He thinks the shit is worth gold, but its not. To give you an idea of his mindset, he stripped the core memory out of an older computer because it was "cool" and would make a good conversation piece (something stupid like that). He wants hundreds of dollars for each core plane. I tried dealing with him but as I said he wants 2x ebay dollars for his junk. No thanks. > --- > A guy said 10 days ago he would send $200 (plus shipping) > for the Unix docs, which I accepted, but I haven't seen the > check yet so maybe it will be available again. > > The vic20 had a price. > > I would like $250 for a stack of pdp11 hardware fisch. > $70 for a folding fisch reader. > > How about $100 for H-11 doc 3-ring binders, and > $140 for the paper tape media software. This is unused, > partly sealed. > > $80 each for a couple rk05 packs containing rsx11m, rt11, ? > > What do you think? > > Rebate if you convert my 9-track unix tar tapes to CD or TR-3 > tape (windoz). Also, you can then keep the 9-tracks, contents > are probably interesting to you. > > 310-393-5525 > > ---------- > From: Andrew Davie > To: c-bristol@usa.net > Subject: Re: ANTIQUE TV's & RADIO, etc. in L.A.,CA > Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:11 PM > > Hi > I'm a classic computer collector, very interested in your Heathkit items, > and also the RT-11 docs. I have just aquired a PDP 11/23 PLUS, and would > love any documentation for that, too. You don't list prices for these > items - if it helps, I offer a good home :) > Please let me know if these items are still available, and I'll try and make > a swift and easy transaction - if the price is right! > Cheers > A > > > > *** OLD COMPUTER EQUIP. NOT IBM STYLE, UNIX PDP-11, VIC20******** > DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: UNIX: full sets of docs for v.6, v.7, > 4.1BSD, 4.2BSD, 4.3BSD, SUN OS2, SUN OS3, SunView. About 3 big > file boxes of UNIX docs. Also have distribution tape of v.7 > for PDP-11 licensed to me from SCO (Santa Cruz Operation) and the > PDP11 hardware it is licensed for. I paid $1350 to SCO for this > licence and tape, forsale now Cheap! Original v6 Lyons course, > 1978?. Bell SysV Driver writing course, 1985. > DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: DEC OSs: Full set, RT-11 v2, v3, v4, > partial RSX-11. Also have the software on floppy and RK05, and > the PDP-11's that are licensed to run it. Also Heathkit > H-11 paper tape operating system, media and docs, new. > Also a couple of RSTS/E manuals. Disks also (RX01, RL01,RK05). > RT-11 set, XXDP Diagnostics, on 8" RX01 floppies and paper tape. > DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: DEC OSs: Full set, RT-11 v2, v3, v4, > partial RSX-11. Also have the software on floppy and RK05, and > the PDP-11's that are licensed to run it. Cheap! Also Heathkit > H-11 paper tape operating system, media and docs, new. > DOCUMENTATION: HARDWARE: many DEC PDP-11 docs from > 1970-1985 on microfiche. (Have reader too.) > VIC-20 Commodore computer with tape deck, books, games, working, $40 > > --- > -- > Andrew Davie adavie@mad.scientist.com > Museum of Soviet Calculators > http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html > Yahoo! Netscape, New Scientist, The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and UK > Independant > Cool Site! > > Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 28 21:52:42 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available In-Reply-To: References: <00ab01be6391$e3f2cae0$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Message-ID: >This guy is a total dweeb. He's been trying to sell that stuff for >probably a year now. At least two different people I've talked to have >tried and failed to deal with this boob. He just wants too much money for >some very mundane stuff. He thinks the shit is worth gold, but its not. > >To give you an idea of his mindset, he stripped the core memory out of an >older computer because it was "cool" and would make a good conversation >piece (something stupid like that). He wants hundreds of dollars for each >core plane. > >I tried dealing with him but as I said he wants 2x ebay dollars for his >junk. No thanks. He's been claiming to have a buyer for the doc's for well over a year! He's been trying to sell all this stuff because he's going overseas for about two years. I contacted him a couple months with an offer on the stuff, and got a semi-rude reply, I didn't get the list of prices. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From Watzman at ibm.net Sun Feb 28 21:19:24 1999 From: Watzman at ibm.net (Barry A. Watzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: S-100 Mystery board Message-ID: <01BE636D.07097D00@slip-32-100-187-34.oh.us.ibm.net> I bought an S-100 card today at a hamfest for $1.00, now can someone tell me what it is ? It's a "65k byte SupeRam 2" P65D2 Rev. C by PIICEON, Inc. It has 64k of DRAM on it, 4 rows of 8 4116's, but the rest of the board does not look very "Ram-like", AND it has a 34-pin board edge connector at the top of the board. I realize that this suggests a 5" floppy drive interface, but a combined RAM and FDC card ????? Plus, the edge connector is VERY un-floppy like, normally a floppy connector would have half of the pins being ground, this clearly looks like it has active signals on almost all 34 lines. Anyone who has information, it would be appreciated. I'd most like to get a manual and switch settings [there are FOUR dip switches on this thing], also the IC at 9B is missing and the board screening does not identify what should go there. Regards, Barry Watzman From doug at blinkenlights.com Sun Feb 28 21:54:01 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > He just wants too much money for some very mundane stuff. He thinks > the shit is worth gold, but its not. Define "mundane." Can you get H11 software and docs at the 7-11? For somebody that *needs* the stuff, the prices are on the high side, but not completely absurd. It's simply impossible to ever say what something is "worth" unless it's a commodity. Don't even try. As you've seen, even prices on ebay vary wildly for the same stuff -- it all depends on who's looking on a given day. There's no formula. Rare doesn't necessarily mean valuable, and "mundane" doesn't necessarily mean cheap. > > How about $100 for H-11 doc 3-ring binders, and $140 for the paper > > tape media software. Speaking of paper tape, does anybody know where I can get fanfold paper tape holders? I've got one holder, and its great to organize the tapes, but I need a few more. Any good substitutes? -- Doug From lfb107 at psu.edu Sun Feb 28 22:13:20 1999 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: NEC APCIII Message-ID: <199903010406.XAA138354@f04n07.cac.psu.edu> At 10:41 PM 2/26/99 -0800, Jason Willgruber wrote: >How much would you want for the parts? I'm trying to get this computer >running for a school project (the computer belongs to my school) > >I was just wondering --- Could I have an APC IV? Three of the teachers that >have seen it have either called it an APC IV, or "The pain in the neck". >Some of the descriptions that I've seen don't sound like the computer I >have. Although it does say "APCIII" on the front panel. >-- > -Jason Willgruber > (roblwill@usaor.net) > ICQ#: 1730318 > Well, prices for parts isn't something I'd worry about. A box of cookies plus shipping wwould be fine with me.... as soon as I find the stuff. It would probably be better for you to tell me, specifically, what it is you think you need. As far as software and documentation goes, I don't have any -the reason I was forced to dump mine. I tried (many ages ago) to decipher the meaning/use of the dip switches at the back, but to no avail. The problem with mine was that I tried putting a later version of DOS on it, but the install pooped out, and since it ignored the floppy on bootup, I was screwed. Even tried swapping HD's etc. *NO* luck. They (I had two) were VERY picky machines. Again, let me know what you need, I'll see if I still have it laying around somewhere. Les From douga at email.com Sun Feb 28 22:14:22 1999 From: douga at email.com (Doug Auerbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Available: Apple //c, Atari 800, Mac Plus Message-ID: <01be6399$fc2ff4e0$356381ce@wport.wport.com> They aren't all that obscure, but they're all three available at my local thrift store (sans power cables). If anyone would like me to pick them up, shoot me an email. I'm not a particular fan of any of these machines, but I figured someone on the list might be interested. FYI... Doug From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 23:09:23 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Doug wrote: > On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > He just wants too much money for some very mundane stuff. He thinks > > the shit is worth gold, but its not. > > Define "mundane." Can you get H11 software and docs at the 7-11? For > somebody that *needs* the stuff, the prices are on the high side, but not > completely absurd. It's simply impossible to ever say what something is > "worth" unless it's a commodity. Don't even try. As you've seen, even > prices on ebay vary wildly for the same stuff -- it all depends on who's > looking on a given day. There's no formula. Rare doesn't necessarily > mean valuable, and "mundane" doesn't necessarily mean cheap. Ok, now its your turn to call this guy and try to make a deal with him. Once you've thrown your hands up in frustration, come back and post a message about your ordeal and we'll console you. > Speaking of paper tape, does anybody know where I can get fanfold paper > tape holders? I've got one holder, and its great to organize the tapes, > but I need a few more. Any good substitutes? I'm sure you can find something suitable at WalMart in the kitchen section. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From gzozman at escape.ca Sun Feb 28 23:17:33 1999 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Kaypro err msg References: Message-ID: <36DA22ED.27D16662@escape.ca> John Lawson wrote: > Since I have no maint docs, does anyone know what the error > message "System Status 02" mean during a Kaypro 10 boot? > > The ROM signs on, CP/m signs on and then it hangs with that message. > > ROM 1.9e CP/m V 2.2F > > 10M ready light is on, Floppy light is on, floppy does not access, > keyboard clicks but no effect. multiple resets return to the same state. > > Cheerz and Thanks > > John According to my Kaypro User's Manual, this error is a "read error". No more information than this is given, but I would assume there is a bad spot on your hard drive on the boot tracks or directory tracks. If you have a boot floppy, try starting the machine with it, and then see if you can successfully pull up a directory of the hard drive. Let me know if I can be of further assistance; I have a fairly complete library of the original software and documentation which came with the machine when new, as well as a mostly working Kaypro 10. BTW, does anyone have a spare hard drive controller card from a Kaypro 10?; mine seems somewhat flaky when booting up. Grant gzozman@escape.ca From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Feb 28 22:55:56 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Available: Apple //c, Atari 800, Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <01be6399$fc2ff4e0$356381ce@wport.wport.com> Message-ID: <199903010457.WAA15648@garcon.laidbak.com> Hello, Doug. How much for the Atari? I live in 46383, so ballpark some shipping in. I already have a Plus, but I might be interested in the IIx if it's in decent shape and not too expensive. Thanks > They aren't all that obscure, but they're all three available at my local > thrift store (sans power cables). If anyone would like me to pick them up, > shoot me an email. I'm not a particular fan of any of these machines, but I > figured someone on the list might be interested. > Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Feb 28 17:56:46 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: KA630 CNF? In-Reply-To: <199902282053.AA01168@world.std.com> (mbg@world.std.com) References: <199902282053.AA01168@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19990228235646.29705.qmail@brouhaha.com> Megan wrote: > Thanks... I'll have to recheck the manual, I guess I missed it. Now > I have to figure out what 'off' means... shorting pin 4 to what other > pin (shorted low or high). Off almost certainly means leaving the pin open. > The KA650 manual mentions using the same board, but it says that only > the off-off configuration is supported. I wonder if the KA650 can > be a co-processor as well... But then, the KA650 doesn't have on-board > memory. Shouldn't matter that the memory isn't on board, since it's PMI memory. The real question is whether the KA650 allows the bus arbiter to be disabled, and provides the interprocessor doorbell interrupt. Are there KA650 and KA655 manuals comparable to the KA630-AA CPU Module User's Guide? I haven't been able to find one. I recently got a KA655 (M7625-BA) with three M7622 16M RAM boards (two M7622-AT and one M7622-AP). I'm hoping that I can just swap it with the KA630 and MS630 in my BA123. (In the BA23, IIRC, there are only three CD slots, so I'd only be able to use two of the memory cards.) Anyone want to trade anything for a KFQSA (M7769)? It's a Qbus controller for DSSI drives, of which I have none. A KZQSA would be much more useful to me. :-) From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 28 23:55:28 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Maxtor XT-4380E ESDI Hard Drive settings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > OK, I'm stumped. I'm finally getting around to adding one of the 380Mb > ESDI HD's that I got to replace the 150Mb ones I've been using in my > PDP-11/73. So I check out "The Tech Page" and while they've got the drive, > they don't give any of the jumper settings. Does anyone happen to have the > settings for this drive? > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > According to the information that I have, this is common to the whole XT4nnnE line. - don 4000E ESDI JUMPER DESCRIPTIONS ------------------------------ JUMPER DESCRIPTION ------ ----------- JP1(IN) Used for factory testing JP6(IN) IN = Motor remote spinup option disabled OUT = Motor remote spinup option enabled DS1-DS7 Drive select (Default= 1) JP14(OUT) IN= Write protected JP16-JP29 Programable sector size JP30(IN) Enables hard sector mode JP31(OUT) Enables soft sector mode JP32-35,JP38 Factory settings for head select JP41 Factory test NOT a user configurable option JP42(IN) Used for factory testing JP45 Used for conversion to short INDEX 1,2= Standard INDEX (70mS), 2,3= Short INDEX (3mS) NOTE: JP4, JP5, JP15, JP36, JP37, JP39, JP40, JP41, ARE NOT JUMPERABLE OPTIONS THE ONLY CUSTOMER CONFIGURABLE OPTIONS ARE: JP6, JP14, JP16-JP29, JP-30, JP31, JP45, AND DS1-DS7 (DRIVE SELECT) ================= From dastar at ncal.verio.com Sun Feb 28 23:55:35 1999 From: dastar at ncal.verio.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:32 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Doug wrote: > There have been *many* times I've passed on stuff because the price was > too high for *me*. That doesn't mean the stuff was overpriced, or that > the seller was being unreasonable -- it only means that *I* was not > willing to pay that much. It's a reflection of *your* values, not the > seller's and not of the item itself when you're not willing to pay a > certain price. Sure, but there are obvious cases of a seller out of touch with reality. This guy is one such seller (and for more reasons than just what he wants for his stuff...go ahead, call him!) > I find it funny when somebody says item X is worth $Y. I find it less > funny when somebody says seller Z is a dweeb for asking > $Y. Feel free > to simply pass on the deal. Sure, but I think its also worth mentioning to other people that a certain seller is difficult to deal with. This guy said that if you were to actually come to pick up the stuff, which is stored in his garage, you wouldn't actually be allowed to come into the garage because he's afraid of your germs. You'd have to wait outside while he brought the stuff out to you. As far as I'm concerned, this is an unreasonable (and paranoid) seller due to his out of touch asking prices and his rather unusual demands. I'm not saying don't buy from this guy, I'm just saying be prepared if you decide to deal with him. I bet 6 months from now, 3 more people will have had the same experience as I and others have had and will post about it here. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Always hasslin' the man. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 02/15/99] From black at gco.apana.org.au Sun Feb 28 15:53:43 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:34 2005 Subject: OT: 30-pin SIMMS References: Message-ID: <36D9BAE6.5C8CF69A@gco.apana.org.au> Max Eskin wrote: > Does anyone here have any 30-pin SIMMs as often found in i386 computers > that are more than 1 megabyte? I have 1-mb SIMMs but I've never seen > bigger ones > > --Max Eskin (max82@surfree.com) Yep, I've got four 4meg ones that are still in service in a 486 SLC/50 here. They come up from time to time on WWW.COMTRADER.COM.AU as well. cheers, lance From fpp at concentric.net Wed Feb 10 06:22:58 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: Hazeltine? Message-ID: <004b01be54f0$1912cfa0$1af9adce@fpp> hazeltine was a popular terminal, like the AMD Dumb terminal. The 1500 series were in use about 1977. They made US and Europe powered models. Sold by Computerland etc. From fpp at concentric.net Wed Feb 10 19:43:33 1999 From: fpp at concentric.net (Paul Passmore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: Hazeltine? Message-ID: <003f01be555f$f4056180$5ff3adce@fpp> You are right it was ADM it is hard being dyslexic ! From ddavidso at metz.une.edu.au Sun Feb 28 15:47:49 1999 From: ddavidso at metz.une.edu.au (Dean Davidson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: Another NEC APCIII question. In-Reply-To: References: <01be6150$244915c0$9f8ea6d1@the-general> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990301084749.009ee760@metz.une.edu.au> At 20:54 25/02/99 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: >On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, Jason Willgruber wrote: > >> I got the NEC to seek the floppy. Sort of.... >> >> Does the APC III Use a special version of DOS? If so, what version? I >> tried 5.0, and it won't work. > >The original APC (8" disks) ran 2.11. I would guess that the APC III was >not too advanced from that and may also have been slightly non-standard. > The problem with the APC III was that NEC decided that it wanted nothing to do with IBM compatability. Therefore the BIOS was completely non standard. For instance (say he typing with cobwebs on his hands after getting down the APC III Programmers reference manual) Keyboard is 18H Video is 19H COM1 is 1AH Printer is 1BH Timer is 1CH Disk IO is 1DH COM2 is 1EH Consequently, any DOS that assumes IBM BIOS compatability won't work The last version for the APC III was 2.11 NEC saw the error of their ways late in the life of the APC III and released a board (the SLE board *) that made the machine (almost) IBM compatible. If you have one of these fitted, later versions of DOS should (may?) work. Also note that to ensure incompatability, the disk drives are 80 track, not the standard 5" 40 track. This means that the capacity is 720K I might have (somewhere) the APC III DOS disk. Note, even without the SLE board these were a great machine. They used an 8086, not an 8088 and were quite fast for their day. Dean * short for Standard Library Extension (they really couldn't bring themselves to use that word ... IBM) From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Feb 28 21:16:18 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available Message-ID: <00ab01be6391$e3f2cae0$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Whilst aware that I'm breaching netiquette by copying personal email, I think in this situation that Chris won't mind, as he's trying to sell these items. I can't afford the prices he's asking (I'm not saying they're BAD prices, nor am I saying they're GOOD. I just can't afford 'em), and felt that rather than waste the time of both of us by attempting to significantly haggle-down, I'd let everyone have-at him. Top part is his response to my letter in response to his newsgroup ad. --- A guy said 10 days ago he would send $200 (plus shipping) for the Unix docs, which I accepted, but I haven't seen the check yet so maybe it will be available again. The vic20 had a price. I would like $250 for a stack of pdp11 hardware fisch. $70 for a folding fisch reader. How about $100 for H-11 doc 3-ring binders, and $140 for the paper tape media software. This is unused, partly sealed. $80 each for a couple rk05 packs containing rsx11m, rt11, ? What do you think? Rebate if you convert my 9-track unix tar tapes to CD or TR-3 tape (windoz). Also, you can then keep the 9-tracks, contents are probably interesting to you. 310-393-5525 ---------- From: Andrew Davie To: c-bristol@usa.net Subject: Re: ANTIQUE TV's & RADIO, etc. in L.A.,CA Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 8:11 PM Hi I'm a classic computer collector, very interested in your Heathkit items, and also the RT-11 docs. I have just aquired a PDP 11/23 PLUS, and would love any documentation for that, too. You don't list prices for these items - if it helps, I offer a good home :) Please let me know if these items are still available, and I'll try and make a swift and easy transaction - if the price is right! Cheers A *** OLD COMPUTER EQUIP. NOT IBM STYLE, UNIX PDP-11, VIC20******** DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: UNIX: full sets of docs for v.6, v.7, 4.1BSD, 4.2BSD, 4.3BSD, SUN OS2, SUN OS3, SunView. About 3 big file boxes of UNIX docs. Also have distribution tape of v.7 for PDP-11 licensed to me from SCO (Santa Cruz Operation) and the PDP11 hardware it is licensed for. I paid $1350 to SCO for this licence and tape, forsale now Cheap! Original v6 Lyons course, 1978?. Bell SysV Driver writing course, 1985. DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: DEC OSs: Full set, RT-11 v2, v3, v4, partial RSX-11. Also have the software on floppy and RK05, and the PDP-11's that are licensed to run it. Also Heathkit H-11 paper tape operating system, media and docs, new. Also a couple of RSTS/E manuals. Disks also (RX01, RL01,RK05). RT-11 set, XXDP Diagnostics, on 8" RX01 floppies and paper tape. DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: DEC OSs: Full set, RT-11 v2, v3, v4, partial RSX-11. Also have the software on floppy and RK05, and the PDP-11's that are licensed to run it. Cheap! Also Heathkit H-11 paper tape operating system, media and docs, new. DOCUMENTATION: HARDWARE: many DEC PDP-11 docs from 1970-1985 on microfiche. (Have reader too.) VIC-20 Commodore computer with tape deck, books, games, working, $40 --- -- Andrew Davie adavie@mad.scientist.com Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Yahoo! Netscape, New Scientist, The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and UK Independant Cool Site! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 28 21:19:41 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: interesting, interesting. In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: interesting, interesting." (Feb 28, 15:59) References: <"Chuck McManis <4.1.19990227182337.00b3fe40@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <9903010319.ZM930@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 28, 15:59, Chuck McManis wrote: > Subject: Re: interesting, interesting. > That's it! > > At 11:45 PM 2/28/99 +0000, you wrote: > >for starters. There's quite a good line drawing halfway down > > > > http://www.exabyte.com/suppserv/techsupp/8mm/fullhigh/in0111.html > > On this page at step 5 is a drawing of my tape drive. Waaay cool! Well, I'd suggest you look at the back of the drive (or sometimes it's on the top) and see if it's an 8200 or an 8500 (8200 is more likely). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Feb 28 23:02:14 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available Message-ID: <00fb01be63a0$b0360500$1901a8c0@titanic.bde.com.au> Uh oh. Chris is rather furious with me. I guess I really should have culled his phone number, but I really thought I was doing EVERYONE a favour. A -- Andrew Davie adavie@mad.scientist.com Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Yahoo! Netscape, New Scientist, The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek and UK Independant Cool Site! -----Original Message----- From: Doug To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:07 PM Subject: Re: Even More Stuff available >On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> He just wants too much money for some very mundane stuff. He thinks >> the shit is worth gold, but its not. > >Define "mundane." Can you get H11 software and docs at the 7-11? For >somebody that *needs* the stuff, the prices are on the high side, but not >completely absurd. It's simply impossible to ever say what something is >"worth" unless it's a commodity. Don't even try. As you've seen, even >prices on ebay vary wildly for the same stuff -- it all depends on who's >looking on a given day. There's no formula. Rare doesn't necessarily >mean valuable, and "mundane" doesn't necessarily mean cheap. > >> > How about $100 for H-11 doc 3-ring binders, and $140 for the paper >> > tape media software. > >Speaking of paper tape, does anybody know where I can get fanfold paper >tape holders? I've got one holder, and its great to organize the tapes, >but I need a few more. Any good substitutes? > >-- Doug > > From doug at blinkenlights.com Sun Feb 28 23:29:35 1999 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:35 2005 Subject: Even More Stuff available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Ok, now its your turn to call this guy and try to make a deal with him. > Once you've thrown your hands up in frustration, come back and post a > message about your ordeal and we'll console you. There have been *many* times I've passed on stuff because the price was too high for *me*. That doesn't mean the stuff was overpriced, or that the seller was being unreasonable -- it only means that *I* was not willing to pay that much. It's a reflection of *your* values, not the seller's and not of the item itself when you're not willing to pay a certain price. I find it funny when somebody says item X is worth $Y. I find it less funny when somebody says seller Z is a dweeb for asking > $Y. Feel free to simply pass on the deal. (FWIW, I don't know the seller and I wasn't interested in anything he was selling at those prices.) > > Speaking of paper tape, does anybody know where I can get fanfold paper > > tape holders? I've got one holder, and its great to organize the tapes, > > but I need a few more. Any good substitutes? > > I'm sure you can find something suitable at WalMart in the kitchen > section. I was just there, and I didn't find any great matches. The tapes are a little longer and wider than forks and spoons, unfortunately. The "official" holders are great, though. I'm going to try one of the numerical control shops on somebody else's recommendation. -- Doug From gareth.knight2 at which.net Sun Feb 28 19:58:05 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:38 2005 Subject: Central Point Option Board Message-ID: <000001be641b$b874a7a0$febdfea9@gaz> Zane H. Healy mentioned reading Mac disks in Windows: >Rumor has it that there is something along these lines. Since use a Mac >and Windows I've never looked into it. There is a freeware utility called TransMac or something like that. It is also possible to use Mac CDs and disks using the Executor Mac emulator. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star" From gareth.knight2 at which.net Sun Feb 28 20:03:53 1999 From: gareth.knight2 at which.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:41:38 2005 Subject: Novice prospectors guide Message-ID: <000101be641b$ba184580$febdfea9@gaz> Mark Gregory >Of course, since _all_ Amigas have either a "Commodore Amiga" or "Amiga" >nameplate on the front, that shouldn't cause too much confusion :v) >(except of course for one that my friend owned that had a VAXstation label >... ). Personally I like to confuse people by placing a Hoover by my monitor and hiding the PC tower under the desk. It looks almost exactly like one of the Silicon Graphics M2's. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | ICQ No. 24185856 http://welcome.to/aig | "Shine on your star"