From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Sep 1 06:15:01 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Challenger 2P Message-ID: <970901071500_-1535486135@emout07.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-09-01 05:59:08 EDT, you write: << >John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > >> Picked up few new finds this week. 1. A Challenger 2P (Model C2-4P) by >> Ohio >> Scientific SN5040. Anyone have spec's on this one? > >Interesting find! I have the Ohio Scientific Challlenger II, Model C2-4P, >S/N732 and haven't found much info on it. The machine was obtained from a >friend of a friend and no docs or anything came with it. So I also would be >interested in any information you find out about this machine! >> I have the C1P model which came with some interesting sale documentation and even some program printouts by someone who was actually using it. it also have what appears to be a tech. reference manual and board schematics. i dont have a scanner, but I suppose I could use the copier at work if theres a need for this material. david From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 1 11:03:47 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Disk TPI's References: <3.0.1.32.19970831023354.00bed100@mail.northernway.net> <3.0.1.32.19970901000609.00a54100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <340AE763.A6C1C0C6@rain.org> Roger Merchberger wrote: > At 05:02 PM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >> Don, > >> A small nit to pick, but _all_ 3.5" floppies are 135 tracks/inch. This > is > >> true from my SSSD 200K Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2 for my Tandy 200, > all > >> the way up to 2.88Meg 3.5" floppy drives. > > > >No, I meant exactly what I said - and for the record, 1.44mb 3.5" and 1.2 > > >5.25" floppy drives are 96 tracks/inch (tpi), not 135. With this discussion of TPI, I am aware of the 5 1/4" 48 and 96 TPI, the 3 1/2" 135 TPI, and the Micropolis 100 TPI drives, but what other formats are out there? Anyone know of any online resources for this info? I checked the Accurite home page and they only mention (at least as far as I could find) 48, 96, and 135 TPI for the 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives. What about the 8" drives as well as "oddball drives" such as the 2" floppy disk (I think that is the size)? From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon Sep 1 11:49:03 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Link to Good Photos Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970901094903.00756304@ferrari.sfu.ca> Here's a link to a series of historic photos. Sorry for wasted bandwidth if everybody knows about this! http://ftp.arl.mil/ftp/historic-computers/ Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Sep 1 13:14:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Disk TPI's In-Reply-To: <340AE763.A6C1C0C6@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 1, 97 09:03:47 am Message-ID: <9709011714.AA10645@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970901/049d1ef7/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 1 13:43:40 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Disk TPI's In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970901000609.00a54100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > At 05:02 PM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote: > > >> Don, > >> A small nit to pick, but _all_ 3.5" floppies are 135 tracks/inch. This is > >> true from my SSSD 200K Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2 for my Tandy 200, all > >> the way up to 2.88Meg 3.5" floppy drives. > > > >No, I meant exactly what I said - and for the record, 1.44mb 3.5" and 1.2 > >5.25" floppy drives are 96 tracks/inch (tpi), not 135. > > Don, > > You are certainly correct in that the 1.2Meg 5.25" floppies (and the 720K > 80 track 5.25" drives as well) are 96 TPI. However, I would really like to > see the specifications on a 3.5" drive that's 96TPI, as I have owned nearly > 30 of these drives, from 200K SSSD up to 2.88Meg DSED, and all that I've > ever owned, seen, or even heard of are all 135TPI. You are correct, I erred! The 3.5" diskettes are at a higher tpi. There simply is not a sufficiently large window in the disk housing to access 80 tracks at 96tpi. Sorry! - don > As well, all standard 3.5" media is 135TPI, and I have successfully > formatted and used HD media in my Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2. (they work > wonderfully, might I add. > > If you're quoting a non-standard drive/media, you've surely stumbled upon a > rare beast indeed! > > HTH, > Roger Merchberger > -- > Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* > zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 1 13:47:27 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Disk TPI's In-Reply-To: <340AE763.A6C1C0C6@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: > Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > At 05:02 PM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >> Don, > > >> A small nit to pick, but _all_ 3.5" floppies are 135 tracks/inch. This > > is > > >> true from my SSSD 200K Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2 for my Tandy 200, > > all > > >> the way up to 2.88Meg 3.5" floppy drives. > > > > > >No, I meant exactly what I said - and for the record, 1.44mb 3.5" and 1.2 > > > > >5.25" floppy drives are 96 tracks/inch (tpi), not 135. > > With this discussion of TPI, I am aware of the 5 1/4" 48 and 96 TPI, the 3 > 1/2" 135 TPI, and the Micropolis 100 TPI drives, but what other formats are > out there? Anyone know of any online resources for this info? I checked > the Accurite home page and they only mention (at least as far as I could > find) 48, 96, and 135 TPI for the 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives. What about the > 8" drives as well as "oddball drives" such as the 2" floppy disk (I think > that is the size)? The 8" drives are 48tpi also. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From william at ans.net Mon Sep 1 14:36:38 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: IBM drive? In-Reply-To: <34078D4B.573888DE@rain.org> Message-ID: <199709011936.AA25952@interlock.ans.net> About a month and a half ago, someone posted finding an IBM S/360 drive (10 megs, I think). What ever happened to it? William Donzelli william@ans.net From danjo at xnet.com Mon Sep 1 14:53:58 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Disk TPI's In-Reply-To: <9709011714.AA10645@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > out there? Anyone know of any online resources for this info? I checked > > the Accurite home page and they only mention (at least as far as I could > > find) 48, 96, and 135 TPI for the 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" drives. What about the > > 8" drives > > All the 8" drives I ever met were 77-track devices, at (I believe) > 48 TPI. Depending on the recording density, you could get anywhere > between: Yup 48 TPI was about it. > FM, 128 bytes/sec: 26 sectors * 77 tracks * 128 byte/sec = 256256 bytes. > > and > > MFM,1024 byte/sec: 8 sec * 77 tracks * 1024 byte/sec * 2 sides = 1261568 bytes > > for soft-sectored drives. On my CP/M system I put 1.6Mb on 8" floppies - let me see now - I think it was 512 byte sector * 21 sectors * 77 tracks * 2 sides. This was achieved by changing the intersector gap and making it REALLY tight on end of track to Index spae as well 8-) But it was neat to have 6.5Mb of floopy storage! > Some early histories of the floppy disk report an IBM 8" format that > only had about 100Kbytes on it. I have no idea if this used the > same 77-track spacing with a different sectoring, or what. This format > certainly wasn't in wide use by 1974; all my floppies from 1974 > are in the standard IBM 3740 26*77*128 format. I think this was before they *invented* the trim erase on the head. It made them use somethng like double the track spacing. BC From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 1 15:53:56 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Burroughs/Leo Computers/Stuff References: Message-ID: <340B2B64.1EFD5F8F@rain.org> While picking up most of the Burroughs manuals I posted about earlier, I had mentioned to the woman that I was also looking for punched cards. Today she found some "IBM" cards with "Leo Computers, LTD" on them! I have probably about 30 of them now and they will make another neat addition to the collection! Again, I picked up most of the Burroughs manuals including the ones marked "Company Confidential". She talked with a friend of hers who worked there who said it was okay to take them. Apparently they were marked that way only for competitive reasons and those reasons no longer apply :)! Her friend who wanted to look at the IBM stuff will be here Thursday and she will let me know then about the stuff. Most likely it will all be available. When I get it, I'll post a list of what is there and it will be available for the cost of shipping. From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Mon Sep 1 17:33:16 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Burroughs/Leo Computers/Stuff In-Reply-To: <340B2B64.1EFD5F8F@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 1, 97 01:53:56 pm Message-ID: <199709012233.PAA23431@fraser> Hi Marvin: Thanks for the update. I'm looking forward to learning more about the box of cards marked "IBM 1620". Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 1 18:29:40 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Small IBM Cards? References: <199709012233.PAA23431@fraser> Message-ID: <340B4FE3.5D2F7FE4@rain.org> Among the things I saw were some small data processing cards that are slightly bigger than a third of a regular IBM card. Anyone know what these things were used in? Thanks. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Sep 1 19:51:40 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Small IBM Cards? In-Reply-To: <340B4FE3.5D2F7FE4@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 1, 97 04:29:40 pm Message-ID: <9709012351.AA11600@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 341 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970901/3f8d35e9/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 1 21:43:55 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Small IBM Cards? References: <9709012351.AA11600@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <340B7D6B.86DE7444@rain.org> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Among the things I saw were some small data processing cards that are > > slightly bigger than a third of a regular IBM card. Anyone know what > these > > things were used in? Thanks. > > Do these match up with Doug Jones's description of 96-column > IBM mini-cards ( 3 * 32 * 8 ) at Thanks for the lead! These have "Globe 344" at the bottom but no other written identification. At the top are four columns of numbers 1-32, 33-64, 65-96, 97-132 at about 1/4" spacing. There are three additional rows of numbers 1-32, 33-64, 65-96 at about 1/2" spacing below the other numbers. Along both sides going up from the last rows are the numbers 1,2,4,8,A,B. These could well be the cards described in Doug's web page but I can't tell for sure. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Sep 1 21:46:59 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Small IBM Cards? In-Reply-To: <340B4FE3.5D2F7FE4@rain.org> References: <199709012233.PAA23431@fraser> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970901194659.0366db20@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:29 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Marvin wrote: >Among the things I saw were some small data processing cards that are >slightly bigger than a third of a regular IBM card. Anyone know what these >things were used in? Thanks. They were introduced (as I recall) as the card format for the "System 3" line of computers, and also were used as the reciepts in a line of ATM machines that IBM made. Have a few myself, and will be adding an image on my web page shortly... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From william at ans.net Mon Sep 1 22:41:11 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: System/3 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970901194659.0366db20@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <199709020341.AA00193@interlock.ans.net> > They were introduced (as I recall) as the card format for the "System 3" > line of computers, and also were used as the reciepts in a line of ATM > machines that IBM made. Does anyone out there have any System/3 stuff or documentation? I know little about them, and there seems to be nothing about them on the Web. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Sep 1 23:40:52 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Small IBM Cards? In-Reply-To: <340B7D6B.86DE7444@rain.org> References: <9709012351.AA11600@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970901214052.03783920@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:43 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Marvin wrote: >Thanks for the lead! These have "Globe 344" at the bottom but no other >written identification. At the top are four columns of numbers 1-32, 33-64, >65-96, 97-132 at about 1/4" spacing. There are three additional rows of >numbers 1-32, 33-64, 65-96 at about 1/2" spacing below the other numbers. >Along both sides going up from the last rows are the numbers 1,2,4,8,A,B. >These could well be the cards described in Doug's web page but I can't tell >for sure. Ok, try this. Images of the IBM 96 column cards are now available on my web pages on the "Historical Items" page under "Residents of the Computer Garage". -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 1 23:58:29 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: DMC Commfile Message-ID: Ok, my friend gave me two DMC systems this weekend. Never heard of DMC and I'm hoping someone else has. The box is about 12" high, 19" wide and about 18" deep. The front panel has a POWER and RESET switch. It says "DMC" and under that "Division of Cetec Corporation". It also says "COMMFILE". I'm assuming that's the name of this system. On the back serial number sticker, one says model 125 and the other model 130. The difference seems to be in the number of serial ports and RAM each has. Both have two integrated 8" disk drives. Inside we find a card cage with 8 slots. The cards at first look like S-100 but upon closer inspection (and a count) I noticed that they actually have 60 conductors on the each side of the edge connector. On the component side, conductors 12-51 are common. The cards are about 1.5 times the height of a typical S-100 board, and the same width. The CPU board has an 8080 on it. There are two serial ports on the back of each, one labeled "OPERATOR CONSOLE" and the other "MODEM". I got two 8" floppies (hacked into double-sided) with the system. Only one seems to boot. I plugged a terminal into the operator console port and booted the disk (it only takes about 2 seconds) and get: READY (V7.0) and then a flashing cursor. Haven't figured out any commands yet, because anytime I type anything I get: ?? INVALID COMMAND and then the READY prompt. Anyone know what I've got? I don't know if my friend knows but he wasn't around when I picked them up so I haven't had a chance to ask him. My guess is he knows nothing about them anyway. He's been sitting on them for years and finally decided he was sick of them taking up space in his room. Any help would be appreciated. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From marvin at rain.org Tue Sep 2 01:53:29 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Small IBM Cards? References: <9709012351.AA11600@alph02.triumf.ca> <3.0.3.32.19970901214052.03783920@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <340BB7E9.50971577@rain.org> James Willing wrote: > At 07:43 PM 9/1/97 -0700, Marvin wrote: > > >Thanks for the lead! These have "Globe 344" at the bottom but no other > >written identification. At the top are four columns of numbers 1-32, > 33-64, > >65-96, 97-132 at about 1/4" spacing. There are three additional rows of > >numbers 1-32, 33-64, 65-96 at about 1/2" spacing below the other numbers. > > >Along both sides going up from the last rows are the numbers 1,2,4,8,A,B. > > >These could well be the cards described in Doug's web page but I can't > tell > >for sure. > > Ok, try this. Images of the IBM 96 column cards are now available on my > web pages on the "Historical Items" page under "Residents of the Computer > Garage". Thanks Jim, that is them! They sure make neat bookmarks :). From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 2 11:44:13 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20604A51F@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Well, my inspiration to advertise with machine tool vendors to find a paper tape reader has paid off. A vendor has several Remex high-speed paper tape readers for sale. I know these were frequently used with PDP's, does anyone know what type of interface they have? RS-232, current loop...? thanks Kai From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 2 12:57:56 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20604A51F@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Sep 2, 97 09:44:13 am Message-ID: <9709021657.AA11320@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 619 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970902/4dffda56/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Tue Sep 2 13:31:05 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20604A51F@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > A vendor has several Remex high-speed paper tape readers for sale. I > know these were frequently used with PDP's, does anyone know what type > of interface they have? RS-232, current loop...? A number of years ago, I wanted to replace a similar tape reader with a computer to interface to an NC Drilling machine. The interface was parallel. Using an XT computer as the replacement for the tape reader, I found the timing to be critical and I had to go to assembly language (the rest was written in C) to get the timing loop fast enough not to lock up or miss characters. While somewhat crude, it worked and I still have the source if you are interested. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 2 16:46:59 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20606F01B@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> What is the difference between an AppleDisk 5.25 and an Apple DuoDisk 5.25? Which work on the IIe and which on the IIgs? Does a IIgs 3.5" drive work on the IIe? thanks Kai From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 2 17:41:45 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20606F01B@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > What is the difference between an AppleDisk 5.25 and an Apple DuoDisk > 5.25? Nothing. The mechanical assembly is the same exact thing. What you are referring to as the "AppleDisk" is the UniDisk (and later rather unimaginatively called the Apple 5.25" Drive). It's the same disk drive in a different housing. > Which work on the IIe and which on the IIgs? Both work on both. As long as you have a 5.25 controller with the DB type connector (as opposed to the Disk ][ Controller with the square connector and ribbon cable) it will work in either. > Does a IIgs 3.5" drive work on the IIe? Not sure as I never owned a GS. Someone else should chime in at this point. But I think the answer is yes as long as you have an Apple 3.5" Disk Controller, which aren't terribly common. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 2 19:00:29 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20606F01B@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Sep 2, 97 02:46:59 pm Message-ID: <9709022300.AA06862@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970902/e4390d82/attachment.ksh From danjo at xnet.com Tue Sep 2 20:06:08 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20604A51F@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Well, my inspiration to advertise with machine tool vendors to find a > paper tape reader has paid off. > > A vendor has several Remex high-speed paper tape readers for sale. I > know these were frequently used with PDP's, does anyone know what type > of interface they have? RS-232, current loop...? Kai - I'll bite - how much does he want for one???? I don't care about the interface - I'll build my own. How about some Reader/Punches 8-) BC From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 2 21:11:58 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers In-Reply-To: from "Brett" at Sep 2, 97 08:06:08 pm Message-ID: <9709030111.AA03666@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970902/d05688be/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Tue Sep 2 20:18:43 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <9709030111.AA03666@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <199709030118.AA05958@interlock.ans.net> > Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? No, nobody wants to drag anything that heavy. What might work is if you pin a sign to your back saying that you actually want one of the things - people may offer many of them to you just for hauling. William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 2 21:24:34 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question In-Reply-To: <9709022300.AA06862@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20606F01B@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: >> Does a IIgs 3.5" drive work on the IIe? > >I believe the IIe needs a Apple Superdrive controller to run the high-density >3.5" drive. These are supposed to be hard to find, but if you ask around >"comp.sys.apple2.marketplace" you can probably find one. > >When you get it, I believe that you'll need ProDOS to make it work. >DOS 3.3 would require some very heavy-handed hacking to make it talk to >the Superdrive. The Standard 3.5" drives for the Apple IIgs are Double Density, there are the HighDensity drives, but they are spendy! Not sure if the IIe will handle them or not, if it does it will probably require a later version of ProDOS, which in turn will require an enhanced IIe (yes, that is a bit redundant, but none the less). The Enhanced IIe's seem to be a lot less common than the plain IIe's (I've 3 IIe's and no enhanced ones). IIRC an interesting bit on the DuoDisk drives is it's the only way to get two 5.25" drives on the IIgs. However there is a downside to the DuoDisk you need the drive cable which since it's detachable doesn't always come with the drive (that's how I got my second IIe, I bought it for the cable, as it was cheaper than buying the cable). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 2 21:34:57 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 2, 97 06:24:34 pm Message-ID: <9709030134.AA13921@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1202 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970902/da35fbb1/attachment.ksh From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Sep 2 20:05:03 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question In-Reply-To: References: <9709022300.AA06862@alph02.triumf.ca> <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20606F01B@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: >>> Does a IIgs 3.5" drive work on the IIe? > >The Standard 3.5" drives for the Apple IIgs are Double Density, there are >the HighDensity drives, but they are spendy! > >Not sure if the IIe will handle them or not, if it does it will probably >require a later version of ProDOS, which in turn will require an enhanced >IIe (yes, that is a bit redundant, but none the less). The Enhanced IIe's >seem to be a lot less common than the plain IIe's (I've 3 IIe's and no >enhanced ones). Actually, there are three options for running a 3.5" drive on a //e: 1) A Unidisk and its associated controller card. The Unidisk is an "intelligent" 3.5" drive which includes its own onboard CPU. Cpapacity is 800K. FYI, all //c's, except the original ROM revision, include support for the Unidisk. 2) An Apple SuperDrive (FDHD) and aoosicated controller. Very rare. Capacity 1.44MB. 3) The Laser Universal Disk Controller (UDC) card. This card can drive either a Unidisk, a //gs 3.5" drive, or a Mac 800K floppy drive. (I think it can also drive a Mac 400K drive.) FYI, the Laser 128 family of Apple compatible computers include the equivalent of a UDC. All are supported under ProDos. I believe that only the Unidisk has any Dos 3.3 support and that requires special patches. >IIRC an interesting bit on the DuoDisk drives is it's the only way to get >two 5.25" drives on the IIgs. However there is a downside to the DuoDisk >you need the drive cable which since it's detachable doesn't always come >with the drive (that's how I got my second IIe, I bought it for the cable, >as it was cheaper than buying the cable). Not true. The //gs can drive two of the Apple 5.25" Drives daisy chained together. The passthrough conenctor takes care of remapping the drive select line. <<>> From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Sep 2 17:25:37 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Oddball IBM 8bit card find. In-Reply-To: <9709012351.AA11600@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <340B4FE3.5D2F7FE4@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Sep 1, 97 04:29:40 pm Message-ID: <199709030224.WAA09889@mail.cgocable.net> Hi anyone can ID this card? Was pulled from a XT pc machine. Ok, The FPU # is: FPU P/N 33F4846 other label: P/N 57F1590 A26 6290 other small lonely label: A40167 The big PGA ceramic with gold square cover printed on: L1A0511 6298386 IBM CORP. 84 CAC 8452 Only 40 pin IC is TI: TMS32010NL there more info on it but not needed to list: At end of the card where it is against the front end chassis has 8 24 pin DIP ceramic made by toshiba says: TMM2018D-55 There is other 2 chips same but it's rated -45. I know they're memory type but what is it? Half of the chips on it is mostly analog types and much number of capacitors and SIP resistors and two transformers, 3 relays; 2 are single pole and one is double pole type. Ok looking at bracket from back as normally installed into PC: Starting from top: First 2 connectors are RJ45 type with 8 contacts. Bottom one is different from that 2 it's 6 contact type with 2 in centre replaced by a nub otherwise it's equivlent to RJ45 type but needs a special connector that fits this type of connector with this little nub. Ok, there are empty small holes behind them there are 2 groups of 3 solder holes. I do not know what it would be used. That is sure sign of some kind of jack plugs. This card is in fine condition. Thanks! Jason D. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 2 21:38:47 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB24DACC2@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> >> A vendor has several Remex high-speed paper tape readers for sale. I > Kai - I'll bite - how much does he want for one???? I don't know yet... he has about 5 available. I'll find out. Kai From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 2 23:05:24 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Apple II series disk drive question In-Reply-To: <9709030134.AA13921@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 2, 97 06:24:34 pm Message-ID: >But they aren't exactly rare. At one point, Computer Warehouse here >in Vancouver had several hundred enhanced IIe's, apparently bought >from a local school system. They also had the most enormous wall of I wouldn't be surprised if a large number were still in schools, I've no idea what the state of modernization is in schools though. Still the IIe was sold until 1992 I believe, which means some are still fairly new. >IIgs's that I'd ever seen; you could've built an entire house with 'em >if you stacked them like bricks! About 1/5th were "Woz special >editions" (not all that rare or special...) I think I've heard numbers like 100,000 on the "Special Edition", I think the ROM 3's might be rarer. Personally I've never seen either. >You can still buy Enhanced IIe logic boards from Sun Remarketing. >A while back they were selling new, in-the-box, enhanced IIe's, as well. Yeh, but I don't make enough to feel I can deal with them, besides with a pair of IIgs's the Enhanced IIe would be a nice to have is all. Actually I'll probably get one of the enhancement kits and enhance one of them I've got myself. The kits are only $29 from a place called Alltech Electronics in California. http://www.allelec.com/appleii.htm They seem to be the outfit to deal with for upgrades and such. From what I saw on their web page it looks like if you've got the 19-pin controller card for the IIe you can probably drive a 3.5" floppy, I'd give it a try but all my IIe's are in storage, I've only got the one IIgs here. They also have some fun IIgs upgrades; SCSI, cpu accelerators, and 8Mb RAM boards. I've got the SCSI, and want to get the other two. >> However there is a downside to the DuoDisk >> you need the drive cable which since it's detachable doesn't always come >> with the drive (that's how I got my second IIe, I bought it for the cable, >> as it was cheaper than buying the cable). > >Where can an ordinary Joe like me buy 19-pin D connectors? Weren't there >also 23-pin D's used on Amigas? I've no idea about the connectors. A good Electronics store would be a good choice, Alltech might have them. The 23-pin connectors are used for the video on the Amiga's, at least the A500, A2000, and A3000 (which also has a VGA port) I think the same is true for the rest. The A3000 is the only one that can drive a VGA monitor properly in an unmodified state. The 23-pin is either for a wierd cable pretty much customized to the monitor, or for the TV-modulator. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 3 00:52:05 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Burroughs Update References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 2, 97 06:24:34 pm Message-ID: <340CFB04.321D2757@rain.org> Here are a *few* titles of the Burroughs manuals I have. These were just in the first box or so and are just posted to give an idea of the type of stuff in these manuals. B6900 Reference Manual, July 1981 A Series System Software Support Reference Manual, Dec 1985 A Series System Software Utilities Reference Manual, Dec 1985 A Series Master Index, May 1986 A Series Cobol, Dec 1985 B 1700 Cobol Compiler Documentation, Dec 1973 B 1000 Systems Fortran 77, Jan 1984 B 1000 Systems Netwrok Controller Installation Guide, Oct 1986 B 1000 Software Operation Guide (Vol 1), Sep 1983 B 1000 System Software Release, Data Management System II, 1984 B1800/B1700 MCP Control Systax, Rev A, 2/23/1978 Software Development Language (SDL) Manual, June 1972 B1800/B1700 SDL, Rev F, 6/25/1980 B1700/B1800 Data Communications Subsystems, Information Manual, Dec 1975 Product Specification, April 7, 1977 Glossary of Data Communication Terms, June 1978 There are at least another 300 and probably more including more system manuals, Design Reviews, software problem reports and fixes, Cande, Cobol, Fortran, Instructional Materials, etc. Oh, apparently there were a pile of tapes that made it to the dump but I have three 8" tapes that were left. I didn't pick up the punched cards yet and there is still another room that was being cleaned out that looked like it might have had some manuals in it. I have email from a few people who have told me a bit of what they want, but how do we handle this stuff now?. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 3 04:26:12 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Remex paper tape readers In-Reply-To: <9709030111.AA03666@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? Back when I was in > high school, these were the de facto solution for reading and/or I think I've mentioned this before, but I would never use a sprocket-fed mechanical reader on an irreplaceable paper tape. It just takes one little tape jam to rip the sprocket holes apart. The best readers (if you can find one) are pinch roller/capstan fed opticals. It's almost impossible to mangle tape with one of those. Even standing on the tape when one is going at full speed (500 cps+) will generally only snap the tape cleanly, and that's quite easy to splice. I like the Trend units made in the UK. They have the advantage that they have DTL/TTL I/O lines and are thus easy to interface to just about anything. I have a little circuit to link one to a PC printer port, which sends the data back in 2 nybbles on the status lines. > punching 8-level paper tapes. (And you got a keyboard and printer as part > of the deal...) At that point in time (roughly 12 or 15 years ago, now) > Model 33 ASR's went for US$100-US$150. I remember trading a Sinclair The only time I ever _bought_ a teleprinter, it cost me \pounds 1.00 (about $1.50). It was at a radio rally, and the chap didn't want to take it home again. > ZX80 for one and still think it was the best deal I ever made! > > Unlike the high-speed optical readers, the Model 33 ASR's were purely > mechanical (including the UART, of course...) Well, the UAR is mechanical, but the UAT is partially electrical. There's a spinning carbon brush that runs over a PCB to select the data lines from the keyboard/reader in turn. Some of the UK Creeds have a mechanical transmitter as well - one contact and a camshaft to set it to the state of each bit in turn. One of the craziest readers I have is a Creed. The tape is sprocket-fed using a sprocket that turns continuously. A camshaft lifts the read pins (peckers (!)) in turn to sample each track, and sets the output contact to the appropriate position. The line of peckers is thus on a slant, not at right angles to the tape motion. Mechanical tape readers are fun, and they're fun to repair and demonstrate, but I'd not want to use one as my only reader. > > Tim. > -tony From groberts at mitre.org Wed Sep 3 07:43:36 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Model 33 ASRs In-Reply-To: <9709030111.AA03666@alph02.triumf.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903084336.008556d0@mail90> At 06:11 PM 9/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? Back when I was in >high school, these were the de facto solution for reading and/or >punching 8-level paper tapes. i saw one at a hamfest this past summer. the guy who owned it wasn't around so i wasn't able to find out what he was asking. if you keep your eyes open they can still be had. - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Sep 3 08:10:44 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Model 33 ASRs In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970903084336.008556d0@mail90> Message-ID: > >Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? Back when I was in > >high school, these were the de facto solution for reading and/or > >punching 8-level paper tapes. > > i saw one at a hamfest this past summer. the guy who owned it wasn't > around so i wasn't able to find out what he was asking. if you keep your > eyes open they can still be had. For those interested, I have what appears to be a pretty complete set of ASR33 documentation...5 books...2 photocopied, 3 originals that I'd be willing to trade for something more up my alley...like an S100 card or two (or 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 =)...or something along those lines. (I'll consider all kinds of things. Of course, as soon as I don't have the documentation, that's when I'll find a teletype. :-/ No guts, no glory. =) Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime wirehead@retrocomputing.com http://www.retrocomputing.com http://www.retrocomputing.org From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Sep 3 09:19:52 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 163 In-Reply-To: <199709030702.AAA04858@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970903071952.00e7bb10@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 03-09-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:11:58 -0800 (PDT) >From: Tim Shoppa >To: classiccmp@u.WASHINGTON.edu >Subject: Re: Remex paper tape readers >Message-ID: <9709030111.AA03666@alph02.triumf.ca> >Content-Type: text > >> Kai - I'll bite - how much does he want for one???? >> I don't care about the interface - I'll build my own. >> >> How about some Reader/Punches 8-) > >Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? Back when I was in >high school, these were the de facto solution for reading and/or >Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 21:18:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: William Donzelli >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Re: Remex paper tape readers >Message-ID: <199709030118.AA05958@interlock.ans.net> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >> Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? > >No, nobody wants to drag anything that heavy. What might work is if you >pin a sign to your back saying that you actually want one of the things - >people may offer many of them to you just for hauling. I beg to differ. I saw one, in excellent condition, show up at a hamfest near the Oregon/Washington border (Longview) not that long ago. I think it was a freebie. The only reason I didn't take it is because I used to work on the things and I know, full-well, what kind of a pain they can be. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Sep 3 10:31:23 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits In-Reply-To: <199708310202.AA15597@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: (Sorry for the message on a dead thread - i've been catching up on an e-mail backlog.) I ordered two of the ZX81 kits from Zebra Systems in January - one to relive the ZX81 building experience (with a better soldering iron than I had 15 years ago), and one to keep around in kit form. I received the kits about 2 weeks after I placed the order. The ZX81 kits from Zebra are early (issue 1) releases of the ZX81, and include a UHF RF modulator. Video format is selectable between NTSC, PAL, and SECAM by changing a few resistors. There are different connections for the RF modulator marked marked USA, UK, and Fr on the board; however, the assembly instructions say to ignore these and connect the modulator to the UK and Fr connections. The RF output is approximately on UHF channel 33 in the US. In the Sinclair minimal cost tradition, the RF modulator is not crystal controlled and the output frequency tends to drift - a television tuner with adjustable fine tuning is a good thing to have. Alternately, you can pick off composite video before the RF modulator and use it to drive a monitor. Although the ZX81's video output is not particularly well suited for driving a 75 or 300 Ohm load, the picture is usable, and the addition of a single-transistor amplifier stage for impedance matching can provide reasonable composite video output. The supplied power supply has a 110 VAC input and outputs 9 VDC at 1A, so finding a replacement power supply for your local AC line voltage shouldn't be much of a problem. Zebra (or the tech school that Zebra bought the kits from) supplies their own instructions, which are geared towards assemblers in the US. The Sinclair instructions are not included. Assemblers in countries that use non-NTSC video standards will need to look at the schematic to determine the correct positions of a few resistors. Fortunately, the schematic diagram is included. The two books that are included with the kit ("BASIC Basics" and "Basic Basics of Basic BASIC", or something like that) aren't (in my opinion) useful for much other than pointing out some of the peculiarities of Sinclair BASIC. ZX81 kits were available in the USA by mail order ($149 kit, $199 assembled, IIRC) for about a year before Timex started selling assembled T/S 1000 machines here. Some other Sinclair-branded machines were sold in the US as well; I have US-spec ZX80, ZX81, and QL machines. The machines (that I know of) that were sold by Timex are as follows: Timex/Sinclair 1000 - 2K RAM version of the ZX81 Timex/Sinclair 1500 - 16K RAM version of the ZX81 in a rubber-key Spectrum case Timex/Sinclair 2068 - Enhanced 48K Spectrum with 3-voice sound, extended video modes, some weird bank switching logic, a cartridge port, and a joystick interface. Plastic keys and a space bar. Some of Timex's improvements supposedly made their way into the 128K Spectrum. There was also supposedly a Timex/Sinclair 2048 (not the same as the Timex Computer 2048), which, I assume, was a 2068 with less memory or fewer features. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From Chwolka at t-online.de Wed Sep 3 19:39:25 1997 From: Chwolka at t-online.de (Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Model 33 ASRs References: <3.0.3.32.19970903084336.008556d0@mail90> Message-ID: <340E033C.7922@t-online.de> Glenn Roberts wrote: > > At 06:11 PM 9/2/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Do Model 33 ASR's ever show up at hamfests anymore? Back when I was in > >high school, these were the de facto solution for reading and/or > >punching 8-level paper tapes. > > i saw one at a hamfest this past summer. the guy who owned it wasn't > around so i wasn't able to find out what he was asking. if you keep your > eyes open they can still be had. > > - glenn > > +=========================================================+ > | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA > | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer > | groberts@mitre.org I have one ... collecting duust downstairs. -- Greetings from Fritz Chwolka / collecting old computers just for fun supporting the Unofficial CP/M Web Page look at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/ *-------------------------------------------------------* ! Internet: Chwolka@nt-gmbh.de ! ! Chwolka@t-online.de ! *=======================================================* ! ! ! If you have an old CP/M System don't throw it away. ! ! Try to find someone who give the system a new home. ! ! ! *-------------------------------------------------------* From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 3 14:31:35 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: S-100 stuff (fwd) Message-ID: PLEASE SEND ALL REPLIES TO edick@idcomm.com DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! Here's a message from the guy in Colorado who has a bunch of old S-100 systems and documentation among other things that he's giving away. He says he has a truckload of media, a bunch of 8" drives and other stuff. Someone else on the list turned me onto him (forgot who). Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 12:26:22 -0600 From: Richard Erlacher To: Sam Ismail Subject: Re: S-100 stuff DO you have any interest in documentation for the old CP/m-based software, perhaps along with software? I've been throwing stuff away, in order to make room for another bedroom in the basement. Lots of stuff is sitting in the covered portion of my carport. Some of this is original documentation and some is copied. There's also a fair amount of documentation on printers, terminals, and other peripherals. Not all of it is in totally messed up condition, but some is pretty poor. Nonetheless, It works! If you know of anyone who wants this type of stuff, pass on the word! It's all free for the taking, since it's on the final sort headed for the dumpster. All I want is to avoid having to PAY to have it taken, so I do need payment for the freight. From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Wed Sep 3 16:43:40 1997 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3410da0a.4902510@mail.tgis.co.uk> I just picked up a MAC PLUS and on the inside of the case it is silver with lots of signatures moulded on it , I know my AMIGA 1000 has this but the other Mac i have is just plain , Is this common ???? Cheers Chris Denham From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Wed Sep 3 13:11:22 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: <3410da0a.4902510@mail.tgis.co.uk> References: Message-ID: <199709032209.SAA20331@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 21:43:40 GMT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: cdenham@tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: mac plus > I just picked up a MAC PLUS and on the inside of the case it is silver > with lots of signatures moulded on it , I know my AMIGA 1000 has this > but the other Mac i have is just plain , Is this common ???? > > Cheers Chris Denham I have Mac + with that signatures too and how common this was I dunno. But I did heard of that in first 1000 produced of that 1k Amigas had these signed in top shell so it's somewhat rare. I see that also in some Mac 128k's. I did not know of any else done that besides said two brands. Jason D. From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 3 17:55:16 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: <3410da0a.4902510@mail.tgis.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Christopher Denham wrote: > I just picked up a MAC PLUS and on the inside of the case it is silver > with lots of signatures moulded on it , I know my AMIGA 1000 has this > but the other Mac i have is just plain , Is this common ???? Quite. Depending on what the "other" Mac is, I don't think later models had the signatures inside (like the II's, etc.) so that would explain the lack of signatures there. But the early Macs all have signatures inside. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From adam at merlin.net.au Wed Sep 3 18:51:12 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus Message-ID: >I just picked up a MAC PLUS and on the inside of the case it is silver >with lots of signatures moulded on it , I know my AMIGA 1000 has this >but the other Mac i have is just plain , Is this common ???? The Mac 128, Mac 512 and Mac Plus all had the signatures. Later versions, like the classics, did not. To my knowledge, the only other signed apple was the "Limited Edition" Woz Apple IIgs, and that was signed on the outside. I am not sure about the 512k, but I assume it was signed - I keep meaning to open up mine but never seem to get around to it. Adam. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Sep 3 19:52:19 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus Message-ID: <970903203749_1582916073@emout08.mail.aol.com> All mac+ have the signatures cast into the case like that. I have the platinum mac + model which was later than the beige ones, and it still has the signatures. I heard some folklore that said that steve jobs' signature is the biggest one, and the rest of them are much smaller... In a message dated 97-09-03 19:26:06 EDT, you write: << I have Mac + with that signatures too and how common this was I dunno. But I did heard of that in first 1000 produced of that 1k Amigas had these signed in top shell so it's somewhat rare. I see that also in some Mac 128k's. I did not know of any else done that besides said two brands. Jason D >> From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 3 22:10:55 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: <970903203749_1582916073@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >All mac+ have the signatures cast into the case like that. I have the >platinum mac + model which was later than the beige ones, and it still has >the signatures. I heard some folklore that said that steve jobs' signature is >the biggest one, and the rest of them are much smaller... It seems to me that when I had a couple of my SE's and my SE/30 open that they also had the signatures in them, but some were messed up by new holes in the case. I'm afraid I don't feel energetic enough to check though, I've got an empty case in the storage shed, but it's buried under a large number of working computers :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From william at ans.net Wed Sep 3 22:32:31 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Unibus thingies In-Reply-To: <340CFB04.321D2757@rain.org> Message-ID: <199709040332.AA29059@interlock.ans.net> Somewhat recently I purchased a set of cards out of a PDP-11/45. It all seems to be there, but I have two different "Internal Bus Connectors", an M920 and an M9200. Which is correct? I have seen many of the M920s, but the M9200s are a bit new to me (or maybe I have not looked very hard!) Incidently, the M9200 has an interesting "dec unibus" sticker on the handle. William Donzelli william@ans.net From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Wed Sep 3 23:00:44 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970904040044.006787bc@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 09:43 PM 03/09/97 GMT, you wrote: >I just picked up a MAC PLUS and on the inside of the case it is silver >with lots of signatures moulded on it , I know my AMIGA 1000 has this >but the other Mac i have is just plain , Is this common ???? > >Cheers Chris Denham > I don't know if you could call it common, however I do know that the Mac 512 had it, as well as the Mac Classic (i don't think the original Mac or the later Mac 128 had a signed case, but I could be wrong). A funny story I heard about these sigs is that on at least one (if not all), Jobs sig is large and right in the middle while Woz's is down in the corner. However a seam or vent ran through Jobs and all but made it unreadable :) I always assumed that the Mac Plus was unsigned, but I guess your machine has proved me wrong (I should dig out that long torx screwdriver and get inside of mine again) Is there a list somewhere naming all of the signed Macs? And how many other computers had signed cases? I think its great that these early machines were produced with signed cases, it shows a pride in the workmanship, as well as the simplicity of design when you could fit all of the important names on the inside of a computer case. Try that with todays wintel boxes (as if they would want to be 'fingered' as the culprits ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From indavis at juno.com Wed Sep 3 23:45:21 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: ASR-33 Paper Tape Readers References: <9709030111.AA03666@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <19970903.234524.3678.0.indavis@juno.com> On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:11:58 -0800 (PDT) Tim Shoppa writes: >Unlike the high-speed optical readers, the Model 33 ASR's were purely >mechanical (including the UART, of course...) > >Tim. > What a coincidence, I am looking through a book - Computer Peripherals That You Can Build by Dr. Gordon W. Wolfe, and there are plans for a electro-optical paper tape reader to replace the ASR-33. It says "Reading a long program in on paper tape can be quite a chore, since the ASR-33 reads only ten characters a second". Then it claims that "Using an optical reader with handshaking on a parallel port, up to 500 characters per second may be read - as fast as you can pull the tape through!" It shows the schematics for building the reader, and a flowchart for the read program. I could probably type in the section, and scan the diagrams if anyone is interested in building their own. For all those people out there with the skills, it's a really interesting book, it even has plans and schematics for a touch response display. I might even try building one of those. It would be a hit at work. I can still look like someone on the cutting edge, getting projects from a 15 year old book. Just let me know if anyone is interested in the plans. I might not be able to get to it tomorrow, but it won't take long, and maybe someone with the knowledge and skills can "mass produce" some for the people in the list that need them. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html P.S. I have been busy, and not able to update the list recently, but I hope to catch up by this weekend. Work just will not let up. From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Thu Sep 4 04:47:03 1997 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <340e82b5.2553606@mail.tgis.co.uk> Thanks for the info on the Mac plus . It looks to me that the other Mac Plus that I have without the signatures is the rarer model cheers Chris From jruschme at exit109.com Thu Sep 4 05:55:14 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: <340e82b5.2553606@mail.tgis.co.uk> References: Message-ID: >Thanks for the info on the Mac plus . It looks to me that the other >Mac Plus that I have without the signatures is the rarer model > >cheers Chris It seems to me that I recall hearing that there are no models of the Mac Plus that *don't* have the signatures. What happens though, is that some have a greater layer of the RF-shielding gray paint than others, obscuring the signatures to a greater or lesser degree. <<>> From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Sep 4 08:09:38 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Burroughs Computers Message-ID: Hi! I have a lead on a computer, a Burroughs 6800, that is apparantly being kept in a store-room and not being used. It seems I should be able to get it if I asked. My question is - do I want it? Mostly I have limited myself to micros, as they are small and fit my own interests, but I have always been willing to accept larger systems. But as a result I know nothing about Burroughs - is this thing huge, or what? Is it rare, common, powerful or just dull? Any information would be greatly appreciated, especially where it fits into the general history of computers. Thanks heaps, Adam. From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Sep 4 10:01:26 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Laser 50 kids computer? Message-ID: I am wondering if anyone else might have one of these Laser 50 computers available? Some more information on this computer. It was manufactured by V-Tech (Video technology Ltd.) in the mid 1980s. It was a small, white, lap-top size computer. It had a single line LCD display and was marketed as a childrens education or beginner's computer, and contained BASIC only. You could expand this 1.5k system by buying cassette recorder, two different printers, and a memory expansion cartridge. OH, yes... you could save up to 9 different programs internally on the computer. Now I also remember it ran on batteries though you could hook up a DC converter to plug into the wall. Had a full-feature BASIC programming language built in, including sound commands... although it didn't have any graphics capabilities (that I know of) it was a fun little computer. Anyway, what I am asking is if anyone out there has one of these or knows where I might be able to find one.... PLEASE let me know. I used to have one (lost it YEARS ago) and I would like my children to be able to use it a bit... plus it's kind of a piece of my computing history that I would like to bring back to my collection! Thanks a lot, and I hope someone has an inkling obout this machine. P.S. This isn't an Apple or IBM close. Best Wishes, CORD COSLOR P.S. I would be willing to pay virtually whatever you want for it (reasonable), and may consider trading my V-Tech Pre Computer 1000 for it. This pre 1000 computer contains BASIC, and many games and trivia sections as well. //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Sep 4 10:03:28 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80, etc. Message-ID: Howdy folks: I am writing this to let you know... if you would like to be mailed a very complete listing of TRS-80 hardware and software, just e-mail me with your name and mailing address to coslor@bobcat.peru.edu. This listing costists of 65 pages and will be sent via 1st Class mail ASAP. If you would like it even quicker, please send $3 to the address below to cover MOST of the shipping charges... you would then be 'prioritized'. I collect all types of TRS-80 hardware and software, and specialize in games in both original diska nd tape format, as well as converted for use with modern PC emulators. I have a HUGE collection and would like to share this with others. I like to think I have 'nearly' every commercially sold game (and hundreds of others) written for the TRS-80 line of computers. I also have most applications and DOSs ... all for the Model 1,3,4 as well as a limited supply of CoCo hardware and software. I also collect for many other classic systems, including but not limited to: MSX, Colour Genie, Apple ][, Apple ][e, Apple ][c, Apple ][+, Commodore 64, C-16, Vic 20, Plus 4, Atari series, Coleco, Sincalire Spectrum, P2000, and Vectrex systems. All I ask for most of the software is to be compensated for my expenses (postage, media, etc.) and have very low prices on most of my hardware as I have accumulated a large inventory over the years and need to clear my shelves. I am also looking for the following items in particular: 1) YOUR classic hardware and/or software. I am always buying and trading for those item. 2) 80-Micro, TRS-80 Microcomputing News, Computer News 80, and 80-US Journal magazines, etc. 3) Original manuals, instruction, and game boxes concerning the TRS-80 4) Atari 800 - Atari Artist cartridge. A800LX - RX8053. Just please remember, I am always buying, selling, and trading for these hard to find items... even for things not on the above list. If you're looking for something or have some things to offer... PLEASE let me know. I simply love the TRS-80 and other classic machines and would appreciate any help you may be able to provide in expanding my collection. I most gladly will help you out in adding to your own classic computer or game machine collection. Finally, I have ALL my original disk, tape, and cartridge software... for all systems, converted to run on their respective PC emulators! Send me your want lists, request for a catalog, or what you have to offer: via e-mail, United States Postal Service, or give me a call... I look forward to hearing from you. Best Wishes, CORD COSLOR //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Sep 4 10:09:39 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Burroughs Computers Message-ID: <01IN8MJOKN7MBEXTL0@cc.usu.edu> > I have a lead on a computer, a Burroughs 6800, that is apparantly being > kept in a store-room and not being used. It seems I should be able to get > it if I asked. My question is - do I want it? Mostly I have limited > myself to micros, as they are small and fit my own interests, but I have > always been willing to accept larger systems. But as a result I know > nothing about Burroughs - is this thing huge, or what? It is huge. It is a mainframe size system. The one we used to have here filled a large room. > Is it rare, common, > powerful or just dull? The main thing about the line which includes the 6800 is that they are stack machines, which is unusual. I don't know about the popularity of the 6800 model, but Unisys still sells machines in that line (and they are still stack machines, and can still execute 6800 code). Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From dastar at crl.com Thu Sep 4 10:17:45 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: <340e82b5.2553606@mail.tgis.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Sep 1997, Christopher Denham wrote: > Thanks for the info on the Mac plus . It looks to me that the other > Mac Plus that I have without the signatures is the rarer model Or at least a Mac Plus with a later model Mac case that didn't sport the signatures. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 4 10:31:27 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80, etc. References: Message-ID: <340ED44F.579FBB4D@rain.org> Cord Coslor wrote: > as a limited supply of CoCo hardware and software. I also collect for many > > other classic systems, including but not limited to: MSX, Colour Genie, > Apple ][, Apple ][e, Apple ][c, Apple ][+, Commodore 64, C-16, Vic 20, > Plus 4, Atari series, Coleco, Sincalire Spectrum, P2000, and Vectrex > systems. In your collection of documentation, is there anything that gives the production years, production numbers, serial numbers, etc. of the classics? I think it would be extremely useful to have this information and have just started searching for sources. What are you looking for in the Atari series? I have a number of books, some software, accessories, machines, etc. for the Atari 400, 600XL, 800, and 800XL. While not for sale or trade, I also have the service manuals (I attended one of the Atari service workshops) for the 400/800 and some of the peripherals of that time. If you need some of that info, let me know and I can copy it for you. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Sep 4 13:35:10 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970829073916.00e24580@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: First, the SWTPC is getting closer and closer to being available online. I'm waiting for a memory board and some documentation to help me locate a little flakiness it sometimes has and need to do some work to correct same. Second, I went and checked out the PDP-11 I mentioned in my web pages and I'll be picking it up next week! It's a PDP-11/84 with 32 serial ports, an RA-80 disk, a TU-80 tape drive, RSX-11M on the RA-80 and on tape, full RSX documentation set, a Tektronix display (forgot the model darnit) and ...AND a Hayes 1200! =-) It's been a few years since I've worked on an 11...the last being an 11/73 and an 11/44 so once I refamiliarize myself with this beast and figure out which house circuit I can connect it to without popping breakers =-) it'll be placed on the net for access on a limited, scheduled basis...like 2 hours a day probably. An 11/84 CPU alone apparently pulls 1100 watts and the RA-80 and TU-80 PROBABLY (maybe more) pull the same so, if I don't run the TU-80 all the time and assuming that's ok with the CPU which it SHOULD be, I'll pull roughly 2 kilowatthours every hour! Woo hoo! The local rate is about 8 or 9 cents per kwhr so that means it'd cost me 16-18 cents per hour of operation if running current is actually 1100watts or so for each of the 11/84 and the RA-80. (Hmmm...wonder if that's startup (IE max) or running draw?) I always loved watching the lights dim when I powered up my 11/34! Basically, I can run it whatever amount of time does not consume more than $10 of power per month. Now for my request, if anyone has schematics or technical drawings of this machine or the peripherals I've mentioned, they would be greatly appreciated. We can work a trade, or compensation or something. Thanks... Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 4 14:02:17 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: IBM 5100! References: Message-ID: <340F05B9.AC50F891@rain.org> I met a friend of mine whom I hadn't seen in several years last night. We got to talking and I found out she had thrown out an IBM 5110 system a while ago . BUT she still had the 5100 and I picked it up this morning. It consists of the 5100, a tape unit, printer, and monitor. They will be looking around for any documentation as it used to be kept with the machine. In the mean time, does anyone know anything about how to start up this thing? I doubt I'll have problems with plugging everything together, but after I throw the power on switch, what happens then? Thanks. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Sep 4 15:10:43 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton" at Sep 4, 97 01:35:10 pm Message-ID: <9709041910.AA16786@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1862 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970904/72b97348/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Sep 4 15:23:04 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <9709041910.AA16786@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Sep 4, 97 12:10:43 pm Message-ID: <9709041923.AA16255@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970904/4f65bbdd/attachment.ksh From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Sep 4 14:27:55 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: IBM 5100! Message-ID: <199709041926.OAA06045@sunflower.com> If I recall correctly they just go straight into basic. ---------- > From: Marvin > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: IBM 5100! > Date: Thursday, September 04, 1997 2:02 PM > > I met a friend of mine whom I hadn't seen in several years last night. We > got to talking and I found out she had thrown out an IBM 5110 system a while > ago . BUT she still had the 5100 and I picked it up this morning. It > consists of the 5100, a tape unit, printer, and monitor. They will be > looking around for any documentation as it used to be kept with the > machine. In the mean time, does anyone know anything about how to start up > this thing? I doubt I'll have problems with plugging everything together, > but after I throw the power on switch, what happens then? Thanks. From kjaeros at u.washington.edu Thu Sep 4 15:16:36 1997 From: kjaeros at u.washington.edu (Ray Stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: mac plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > Quite. Depending on what the "other" Mac is, I don't think later models > had the signatures inside (like the II's, etc.) so that would explain the > lack of signatures there. But the early Macs all have signatures inside. They were still putting signatures in the compact macs as late as 1991, as my SE/30 has them. I don't think any mac besides the compacts had signatures molded into them. ok -r From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Sep 4 16:21:52 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <9709041910.AA16786@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: (BTW, I'm going to leave this thread public because I think it might be of interest to collectors new to the PDP series and who might run across machines like this.) > > An 11/84 CPU alone apparently pulls 1100 watts > > A *fully-loaded* 10.5" 11/84 box will pull 1100 watts. A very much > reduced configuration - just a CPU, memory, and (non KDA50) disk controller > - will only draw 100 watts or so. > Well the backplane looked about half full roughly. So this is sounding a bit more hopeful. I have $10 a month to spend on this machine for electricity at about 8 cents per kilowatt hour so.... > I believe the spec for the RA-80 spinup surge current is 40 Amps. While > running, it's probably about 7 amps. > I didn't have ALOT of time to look the machine over but I did look in the back of the cabinet containing the TU80 and the RA80 and saw a sticker that said "30 amps" which I ASSUMED referred to the RA80. I only ever owned RL and RK series drives when I was collecting PDPs in the early 90s...what are the size etc specs on the RA80? A friend of mine and I built an 11/34 system with 2 or 3 RK series drives and an older model DEC 9 track drive. So I'm not completely ignorant but I'm still getting used to the CURRENT state of the art in throwaway PDPs. > A TU80 doesn't take much; about 50 watts with power off, and less than > 200 watts with the blower and reels running. > Aha! This IS sounding alot more hopeful. Basically, if I could come up with a controller to drive modern SCSI drives or something a bit less power hungry, I could probably afford to run this guy at least all weekend every weekend or something like that. Hmmm...I wonder if there's any market for converting 9 track media to more modern forms? It'd only take $60.00 a month, with modern drives, to run the beastie 24 hours... perhaps less. =-) > (presumably) is in the 11/84 will also talk to RA7n's and RA9n's. With > a Emulex/CMD/Dilog ESDI or SCSI controller in the box, you can even hook > up perfectly modern 3.5" hard drives. > Hmmmm...what's strange is that they claim they upgraded the drive around two years ago. Upgrading TO an RA80 seems a bit strange in 1995. But the front of the drive said RA80 so.... > > Now for my request, if anyone has schematics or technical drawings of this > > What do you specifically need? A print set for a complete configuration > is several hundred 11x17" sheets... Sheesh. I guess that's true...the print set for my old 34 was several 'books' of many pages a piece if I recall correctly. Ummm...if anyone has the print set for an 11/84 they'd like to go to a good home then let me know. =-) (If not, I'll probably run across one one of these days.) The machine DOES work apparently and the guy who operated it showed it to me today. He claims that it worked fine when they shut it down 2 years ago (yeah yeah I know) and it's just been sitting in the corner since then. He claims that if I plugged it in, which I didn't have an opportunity to do, it would come right up into RSX. We'll see after next week. One other obstacle is that it all has the funky twisty safety plugs on the AC cords but it's configured for 125 v etc so I'll replace the plugs, like I did on my 34, with high quality normal ones. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Sep 4 17:42:47 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton" at Sep 4, 97 04:21:52 pm Message-ID: <9709042142.AA17736@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2996 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970904/aedd11eb/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Thu Sep 4 17:07:36 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709042207.AA16483@interlock.ans.net> > > I believe the spec for the RA-80 spinup surge current is 40 Amps. While > > running, it's probably about 7 amps. > > > I didn't have ALOT of time to look the machine over but I did look in the > back of the cabinet containing the TU80 and the RA80 and saw a sticker > that said "30 amps" which I ASSUMED referred to the RA80. Generally, you should not have to worry too much about surge currents for AC motors (DC motors, on the other hand, are another story). The surge lasts for a fraction of a second, and properly done wiring with breakers or slow-blow fuses can handle the extra current. The heating effect on the wires is very minor. > One other obstacle is that it all has the funky twisty safety > plugs on the AC cords but it's configured for 125 v etc so I'll replace > the plugs, like I did on my 34, with high quality normal ones. Why not just install a normal Twist-Loc? They can be expensive, but I have had decent luck finding them at hamfests for pocket change. One note: many Twist-Locs are isolated ground types (look for a little triangle), so be sure to provide a suitable ground wire - the socket does not provide the connection. William Donzelli william@ans.net From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Sep 4 17:23:01 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <9709042142.AA17736@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > Not a problem - give your credit card number to CMD and you can have > a Unibus SCSI controller tomorrow. > I should probably ask them for a price first. ;-D Perhaps I'll try my hand at locating a used controller first although I know THAT isn't exactly a walk in the park. > Upgrading to RA80's two years ago was a mistake, if that is indeed the case! > Of course, it's also possible there is a much modern drive buried in the > cabinet somewhere - you wouldn't notice it. Heck, the power plug on > the RA80/TU80 power controller is larger and heavier than many > modern SCSI drives. > > Before moving it, make sure you lock the heads on the RA80. > Oops. I've only owned RL02s and RK07s before. How does one lock the heads on the RA80? Guess that'd be useful to know. :-/ I've used machines in the past that HAD RA80s but I never had a reason to know how to lock the heads. > My preferred way for dealing with this part is to install Hubbel Twist-n- > Lock jacks in the computer room! Bring in some 3-phase, while you're at > it, and you'll be set for RP06's, too. Buddy of mine is an electrician. Twistnlock jacks aren't a problem. Bringing in three-phase is a bit beyond my budget right now but I am considering upgrading the service to my house on general principle when I can better afford to do so. =-) Anthony From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Sep 4 17:30:14 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <199709042207.AA16483@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: > lasts for a fraction of a second, and properly done wiring with breakers > or slow-blow fuses can handle the extra current. The heating effect on the > wires is very minor. > And probably doesn't last long enough to matter. I'm probably going to take Tim's advice and work on switching to SCSI drives. It sure would be amusing to have a 4' rack (which to most folks is a monster) with tiny little SCSI drives sitting on top. =-) Come to think of it...and this is a vague recollection...I seem to recall at the job I had in '88 programming DIBOL on an 11/44 that the 44 had an arrangement like that. With little 5 1/4" drives on top. Hmmmmm.... > Why not just install a normal Twist-Loc? They can be expensive, but I > have had decent luck finding them at hamfests for pocket change. > > One note: many Twist-Locs are isolated ground types (look for a little > triangle), so be sure to provide a suitable ground wire - the socket does > not provide the connection. As I mentioned to Tim a buddy of mine is an industrial electrician so I might have him just come in and make things happy and good. =-) BTW, what is the objection that you and Tim seem to have to just switching to normal 3 prong plugs, other than that they can fall out? Just curious if there's other reasons not trying to be argumentative. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Sep 4 17:40:30 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: [Long] HHC Eprom Update! In-Reply-To: References: <199708221624.AA19136@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970904184030.00977d20@mail.northernway.net> Otay, folks. Sorry for the lack of verbiage here, but I've had a crazy week+. Here's the skinny: Me wifey just called from home and said that the e-proms have arrived. There's 3 packages of them, totalling roughly 110 pounds of the things. They are 8Kx8 parts, made by Motorola with part numbers MCM 68764 and MCM 68766. If y'all don't recognize these part numbers, I'm _almost_ positive that they are 24-pin chips compatible with Mask-programmed ROMS of similar numbers and should be pin-compatible with those. For all you CoCo lovers, this means you. Most (if not all) of the Tandy CoCo 1 & 2's and CoCo disk controllers (up to and including the FD-501, if I'm not mistaken) used these for Color Basic, Extended Color Basic and Disk Extended Color Basic. Now all you Cocoists (this includes me... I'm jumping for joy) can upgrade & burn new Basic ROMS to fix a lot of the bugs that Microsoft left in, without having to hack up a 24-pin to 28-pin adapter. (which, BTW, I do have the specs for so you could hack one up if necessary.) These are supposed to be blank, but Mike said that if some came thru with programming intact, they would contain specialized insurance-type programs for the HHC's. The HHC's were built under the Panasonic and Quasar labels (from what I gathered on the Web) and utilized a 6502 uprocessor, IIRC. I'll drum up the web references again, when I get home.... uh, no... links are here. Here's what I got: =============================================== From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Sep 4 18:56:14 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Clifton" at Sep 4, 97 05:30:14 pm Message-ID: <9709042256.AA17815@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 977 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970904/26beeb2b/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Sep 4 18:23:07 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <9709042256.AA17815@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > > BTW, what is the objection that you and Tim seem to have to just > > switching to normal 3 prong plugs, other than that they can fall out? > > I have to admit, since my initial measurements, I've reconfigured several > of my systems without measuring the final total current draw. That's > OK for me to do, but nobody else should do that :-) Aha! Point well taken. My intention was to borrow an ammeter from one of my ham buddies before making any potentially life-changing decisions. =-) To be honest, I'll probably install some twist-lock outlets in the basement here. Fortunately, my house was built only 8 years ago and is properly wired in the basement with romex, which looks to have been installed correctly and has been checked out by the electrician buddy I mentioned. I think most of my questions in this thread have been answered. BTW, I've now fully debugged the drive subsystem on the SWTPC 6800 and I'm putting that case back together now. I'm still working with Eric Chomko to get the CPU a little happier before I put it online but I'm getting VERY close. Should be a fun machine for folks to play with. It shouldn't be too taxing to telnet to as it talks to its serial port at 300 baud. =-) Also, having run the website the last few days I think my current net connection is quite adequate...it makes FTP pretty slow...but my point wasn't to replace oak. This means that I have a phone line free on which to run a dialup gateway into _THE Computer Center_, which I'll be working on. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From william at ans.net Thu Sep 4 19:40:41 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709050040.AA27371@interlock.ans.net> > As I mentioned to Tim a buddy of mine is an industrial electrician so I > might have him just come in and make things happy and good. =-) > > BTW, what is the objection that you and Tim seem to have to just > switching to normal 3 prong plugs, other than that they can fall out? > Just curious if there's other reasons not trying to be argumentative. I have kicked one too many plugs out of the wall... Also, you can run the line on the ceiling and use drops to the machines - great for computers in the middle of the room. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 4 16:34:31 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Unibus thingies In-Reply-To: <199709040332.AA29059@interlock.ans.net> from "William Donzelli" at Sep 3, 97 11:32:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970904/3e09c5b2/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Sep 4 20:27:42 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80, etc. Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970905012742.0068a4d8@pop3.concentric.net> I too have a few TRS-80 machines, books on TRS-80, manuals, and software. I will try and send you a list of extras. I may be able to get that Atari 800 for you. At 10:03 AM 9/4/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Howdy folks: > >I am writing this to let you know... if you would like to be mailed a very >complete listing of TRS-80 hardware and software, just e-mail me with your >name and mailing address to coslor@bobcat.peru.edu. This listing costists >of 65 pages and will be sent via 1st Class mail ASAP. If you would like it >even quicker, please send $3 to the address below to cover MOST of the >shipping charges... you would then be 'prioritized'. > >I collect all types of TRS-80 hardware and software, and specialize in >games in both original diska nd tape format, as well as converted for use >with modern PC emulators. I have a HUGE collection and would like to share >this with others. I like to think I have 'nearly' every commercially sold >game (and hundreds of others) written for the TRS-80 line of computers. I >also have most applications and DOSs ... all for the Model 1,3,4 as well >as a limited supply of CoCo hardware and software. I also collect for many >other classic systems, including but not limited to: MSX, Colour Genie, >Apple ][, Apple ][e, Apple ][c, Apple ][+, Commodore 64, C-16, Vic 20, >Plus 4, Atari series, Coleco, Sincalire Spectrum, P2000, and Vectrex >systems. > >All I ask for most of the software is to be compensated for my expenses >(postage, media, etc.) and have very low prices on most of my hardware as >I have accumulated a large inventory over the years and need to clear my >shelves. > >I am also looking for the following items in particular: > >1) YOUR classic hardware and/or software. I am always buying and trading >for those item. > >2) 80-Micro, TRS-80 Microcomputing News, Computer News 80, and 80-US >Journal magazines, etc. > >3) Original manuals, instruction, and game boxes concerning the TRS-80 > >4) Atari 800 - Atari Artist cartridge. A800LX - RX8053. > >Just please remember, I am always buying, selling, and trading for these >hard to find items... even for things not on the above list. If you're >looking for something or have some things to offer... PLEASE let me know. >I simply love the TRS-80 and other classic machines and would appreciate >any help you may be able to provide in expanding my collection. I most >gladly will help you out in adding to your own classic computer or game >machine collection. > >Finally, I have ALL my original disk, tape, and cartridge software... for >all systems, converted to run on their respective PC emulators! > >Send me your want lists, request for a catalog, or what you have to offer: >via e-mail, United States Postal Service, or give me a call... I look >forward to hearing from you. > >Best Wishes, > >CORD COSLOR > >//*=====================================================================++ >|| Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || >|| (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || >|| Classic computer software and hardware collector || >|| Autograph collector || >++=====================================================================*// > > > > > From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Sep 4 22:26:01 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: [Long] HHC Eprom Update! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970904184030.00977d20@mail.northernway.net> References: <199708221624.AA19136@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970904232601.009303e0@mail.northernway.net> At 06:40 PM 9/4/97 -0400, I wrote: >Otay, folks. Sorry for the lack of verbiage here, but I've had a crazy >week+. Here's the skinny: Yes, I'm quoting myself... Around my house, it's the only way I'm assured a halfway intellegent conversation..... ;^> >They are 8Kx8 parts, made by Motorola with part numbers MCM 68764 and >MCM 68766. Yes, and I forgot to mention that they are CMOS parts, as well. The look to be standard, _except_ they are all inserted into a special carrier-like thingamabob that made it easy to insert/remove the ROM packages and has a .1 or .01 microFarad capacitor soldered betwen Vcc and ground on each chip... I guess that's why they're heavier than normal. Uh, and did I mention that there's _-_-Lots-_-_ of them!?!?!?!? You could desolder the cap, straighen the pins and remove the plastic carrier and voila! you have a chip that will directly plug into an e-prom burner (provided it handles it...) and Bammo! You can upgrade whatever you want. Remember I mentioned this URL: >http://www.byte.com/art/9601/sec4/art7.htm Well, I just fired off an e-mail to the lady that's in command of the licensing and re-printing of articles in Byte, to see if she'd give permission to reproduce this article on the Web. I'll wait and see if I get any response. Barring that, does anyone out there in ClassicLand have that issue of Byte? At the very least, you could educate us on just what it had, and maybe scan in a picture if you have access to a scanner... (or even, if someone has an extra issue of that one, I'd be willing to trade something for it). Anyway, the closest I have in my collection is March 1981, so that won't quite do. >Anyway, more on this when I get home (still at work...) and if anyone else >is interested, put yer orders in! Just a reminder to anyone who wants some... they're cheap! Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Sep 4 23:09:42 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Ton of stuff list Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970904210942.007c6760@agora.rdrop.com> Ok gang, a pile of stuff (somewhat recent, looks like a parts pile, but...) near Ventura, California that is dumpster bound unless someone makes a grab... Contact the person directly at the address below. -jim >From: "Richard J. Bodan" >Reply-To: RJB-CONSULTING@worldnet.att.net >Subject: Re: Ton of stuff list > >Here is a brief list that just touches the tip of the iceberg. > >10 to 15 XT chassis and Mborads >10 to 15 mono, CGA, EGA, VGA minitors >various printers and excesseories >none of this works!! >Just looking for somebody to get it the hell out of here. >Who do you think you know that might want it?? > >RJ Bodan > > --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Fri Sep 5 02:29:55 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Burroughs B6800 Message-ID: <340FB4F3.AED413A5@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Adam, The B6800 is a huge mainframe in mutiple large cabinets and requiring air conditioning, false floor, etc. Having said that, it is certainly an interesting machine but not appropriate for a home collection, now if you had a warehouse..... Regards Hans B Pufal From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Fri Sep 5 02:42:18 1997 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: [Long] HHC Eprom Update! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970904232601.009303e0@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19970904184030.00977d20@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970905174218.009cc220@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 11:26 PM 9/4/97 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: >Barring that, does anyone out there in ClassicLand have that issue of Byte? >At the very least, you could educate us on just what it had, and maybe scan >in a picture if you have access to a scanner... (or even, if someone has an >extra issue of that one, I'd be willing to trade something for it). I'll admit to having it at home. I assume you're talking about the January 1981 issue? I'll write a note to myself and bring it in tomorrow (yes, Saturday) and scan it in... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Sep 5 07:49:28 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: HHC Eprom Update! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970905174218.009cc220@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.a u> References: <3.0.1.32.19970904232601.009303e0@mail.northernway.net> <3.0.1.32.19970904184030.00977d20@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970905084928.00993dc0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Huw Davies said: >I'll admit to having it at home. I assume you're talking about the January >1981 issue? I'll write a note to myself and bring it in tomorrow (yes, >Saturday) and scan it in... Kool. I meandered over to Motorola's website last nite, and tho they did not have the datasheets for these chips on the Web, they were available thru their faxback system... so I have the datasheets IMTLF (in my tight little fists) right now. I'm leaving it up to you what I scan in... I'm definately scanning in the pinout w/information, but do y'all want me to: 1) scan in the programming timing information? 2) scan in the fast programming algorithm? 3) scan in anything else? Oh, and tho the chips have a "C" on them (as in MCM68764C) the datasheets say they're N-channel MOS. Unmarked speed chips are 450ns access, but there are some 350ns parts available as well. Anyway, expect to see some info on this arrive over the weekend on my website... as it looks like I may actually have 4 or 5 seconds this weekend to work on it! http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/geezers.shtml for my geezer computer page. (it's small, it's lame, but it's mine! ;-) Toodles, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Sep 5 10:08:13 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: [Long] HHC Eprom Update! Message-ID: <01INA0UOGBB6BEYAF8@cc.usu.edu> > they are all inserted into a special carrier-like thingamabob that made it > easy to insert/remove the ROM packages and has a .1 or .01 microFarad > capacitor soldered betwen Vcc and ground on each chip... I guess that's why > they're heavier than normal. Would this happen to be the _same_ carrier that the Epson folks used for ROMs in the PX-8? If so, you might be able to sell some to PX-8 folks that want to make their own ROMs. Roger "I just pushed a standard DIP in carefully and it fit" Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From See-My-Sig-For-My- at ddress.com Fri Sep 5 10:16:44 1997 From: See-My-Sig-For-My- at ddress.com (See-My-Sig-For-My-@ddress.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: WANTED: QBus Modules Message-ID: <3410210a.85831839@news.wizards.net> NOTE: Address munged to discourage spambots. Check my signature line for the real thing. I have need of the following QBus modules: 1 ea. M7552 (Qbus RRD50 controller) 2 ea. M7546 (Qbus TK50 controller) Anyone who has such that they're willing to get rid of, please drop me an E-mail. Commercial vendors, please note that I am a hobbyist and that I lack the deep pockets (financially speaking) of companies that still run MicroVAXen and MicroPDP. Please keep that in mind when making price offerings. Thanks to all in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid -- kyrrin2-At-Wizards-Dot-Net "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Sep 5 11:29:26 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: WANTED: QBus Modules In-Reply-To: <3410210a.85831839@news.wizards.net> from "See-My-Sig-For-My-@ddress.com" at Sep 5, 97 03:16:44 pm Message-ID: <9709051529.AA17936@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 612 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970905/7ceae623/attachment.ksh From Chwolka at t-online.de Fri Sep 5 17:19:08 1997 From: Chwolka at t-online.de (Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: PDP11 Message-ID: <3410855B.B97@t-online.de> Hi.. I 've a PDP-11 (19" rack) at home and it will not boot. It seems as if the bus is blocked by the power.. -- Greetings from Fritz Chwolka / collecting old computers just for fun supporting the Unofficial CP/M Web Page look at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/ *-------------------------------------------------------* ! Internet: Chwolka@nt-gmbh.de ! ! Chwolka@t-online.de ! *=======================================================* ! ! ! If you have an old CP/M System don't throw it away. ! ! Try to find someone who give the system a new home. ! ! ! *-------------------------------------------------------* From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Sep 5 12:27:53 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: PDP11 In-Reply-To: <3410855B.B97@t-online.de> from "Chwolka" at Sep 5, 97 06:19:08 pm Message-ID: <9709051627.AA16904@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 449 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970905/cac1668e/attachment.ksh From prp at hf.intel.com Fri Sep 5 12:14:18 1997 From: prp at hf.intel.com (Paul Pierce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Burroughs Computers References: <199709050702.AAA04593@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34103DEA.4C98@hf.intel.com> > From: adam@merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) > > I have a lead on a computer, a Burroughs 6800, that is apparantly being > kept in a store-room and not being used. Adam, The Burroughs 6800 is a large mainframe. It will require 208-220v 3-phase power and probably air conditioning. I suppose you probably don't want it. Burroughs machines are rare, especially one this old. Burroughs had a policy of taking back their old machines in trade, which they would then destroy to avoid having used machines in competition with their new ones. It is an interesting machine historically, although possibly not the most interesting in the line which is now called the A-Series. Probably about the first in the line was the B5000. The famous early machine was the B5500, there was one at the University of Wisconsin and it was about the first machine I ever used. I remember one of the UW professors contributed to the 6800 architecture (suggestions, at least) and there was a big fuss about whether to get it or a Univac. They ended up with the Univac 1108. The 6800 was to have been a big improvement over the 5500 but was quite late or something. The A-series computers are stack machines. Its a very interesting architecture. At the time of the B5000 series it was considered ahead of its time, but now that architecture is essentially dead. The most recent new stack machine I know of is the original HP 3000 minicomputer from the late 70's early 80's. It is inherently difficult to get a stack machine to run very fast, like today's superscalar microprocessors. But a stack architecture results in small code. The virtual machine for Java byte code is a stack architecture. There are a number of other historically and architecturally interesting things about the Burroughs A-series line and probably the 6800 in particular. If you remember TRON, the evil "MCP" gets its name from the Burroughs operating system (Master Control Program.) There is a Burroughs thread running at the moment in alt.folklore.computers. Please find out if its just the machine or if there is documentation and/or software. I would like to see the whole machine saved, but if that turns out to be impossible at least maybe good docs can be saved. Ideally there would be hardware manuals including user reference manuals and schematics, diagnostic software and manuals, operating system and application software and manuals. Possibly if the closet contains only the machine other folks may have documentation in their office. If you don't want it I would be very interested, but if you are in Australia it could be very expensive to haul it back here. Please keep in touch and let us know what you find out. Paul Pierce http://www.teleport.com/~prp/collect/ From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Sep 5 12:53:29 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Burroughs Computers Message-ID: <01INA6B6JHQABDXZC7@cc.usu.edu> > Burroughs machines are rare, especially one this old. Burroughs had a > policy of taking back their old machines in trade, which they would then > destroy to avoid having used machines in competition with their new > ones. Rumor around here is that when it came time to get rid of the old Burroughs, Burroughs sold a new machine to the university that bid on our old machine for less than what they had bid on the old machine. Everyone here assumed it was because Burroughs was pissed that we had gone with big VAXen; but perhaps that was just the way Burroughs worked. > The A-series computers are stack machines. Its a very interesting > architecture. At the time of the B5000 series it was considered ahead of > its time, but now that architecture is essentially dead. The most recent > new stack machine I know of is the original HP 3000 minicomputer from > the late 70's early 80's. It is inherently difficult to get a stack > machine to run very fast, like today's superscalar microprocessors. But > a stack architecture results in small code. The virtual machine for Java > byte code is a stack architecture. http://www.ptsc.com/ describes ShBoom, a stack machine designed by Chuck Moore (aka the inventor of Forth). The theory behind ShBoom, and his more recent stack machine, is that if you use a wide word (in this case 32 bits) you can fetch a whole bunch of tiny instructions at once then blaze through them. In the case of ShBoom, the core runs at 100Mhz while the external bus runs slower. Since each opcode is a byte, he can fetch four opcodes at once with the slower bus rate yet keep the fast internal core fed. Chuck Moore also has some newer designs. F21 and P21, for instance. These are 21-bit machines with (IIRC) a 20-bit external bus. Each opcode is five bits, so (again) he's fetching four instructions with each external bus transaction. There was a big argument on comp.arch recently about just how hard it is to go superscalar on a stack machine. IIRC, a Unisys A series engineer was heavily involved in that discussion. Perhaps interested folks can dredge it up using http://www.dejanews.com/. I don't recall whether there was a conclusion to the argument (is there ever a conclusion on usenet?); a lot of the discussion was over my head. Roger ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Fri Sep 5 13:59:35 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update In-Reply-To: <01BCBA05.72CCD2C0@hsmx21nt.hsd.utc.com> Message-ID: Uhhhh...was it my deodorant? =-) Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Faiaz, Michael C. HSD wrote: > unsubscribe > > ---------- > From: Anthony Clifton > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: DEC Scrounging & SWTPC 6800 Update > Date: Thursday, September 04, 1997 5:21PM > > > > (BTW, I'm going to leave this thread public because I think it might > be of interest to collectors new to the PDP series and who might run > across machines like this.) > > > > An 11/84 CPU alone apparently pulls 1100 watts > > > > A *fully-loaded* 10.5" 11/84 box will pull 1100 watts. A very much > > reduced configuration - just a CPU, memory, and (non KDA50) disk > controller > > - will only draw 100 watts or so. > > > Well the backplane looked about half full roughly. So this is sounding > a bit more hopeful. I have $10 a month to spend on this machine for > electricity at about 8 cents per kilowatt hour so.... > > > I believe the spec for the RA-80 spinup surge current is 40 Amps. While > > running, it's probably about 7 amps. > > > I didn't have ALOT of time to look the machine over but I did look in > the > back of the cabinet containing the TU80 and the RA80 and saw a sticker > that said "30 amps" which I ASSUMED referred to the RA80. I only ever > owned RL and RK series drives when I was collecting PDPs in the early > 90s...what are the size etc specs on the RA80? A friend of mine and I > built an 11/34 system with 2 or 3 RK series drives and an older model > DEC 9 track drive. So I'm not completely ignorant but I'm still getting > used to the CURRENT state of the art in throwaway PDPs. > > > A TU80 doesn't take much; about 50 watts with power off, and less than > > 200 watts with the blower and reels running. > > > Aha! This IS sounding alot more hopeful. Basically, if I could come up > with a controller to drive modern SCSI drives or something a bit less > power hungry, I could probably afford to run this guy at least all > weekend > every weekend or something like that. Hmmm...I wonder if there's any > market for converting 9 track media to more modern forms? It'd only > take $60.00 a month, with modern drives, to run the beastie 24 hours... > perhaps less. =-) > > > (presumably) is in the 11/84 will also talk to RA7n's and RA9n's. With > > a Emulex/CMD/Dilog ESDI or SCSI controller in the box, you can even hook > > up perfectly modern 3.5" hard drives. > > > Hmmmm...what's strange is that they claim they upgraded the drive around > two years ago. Upgrading TO an RA80 seems a bit strange in 1995. But > the > front of the drive said RA80 so.... > > > > Now for my request, if anyone has schematics or technical drawings of > this > > > > What do you specifically need? A print set for a complete configuration > > is several hundred 11x17" sheets... > > Sheesh. I guess that's true...the print set for my old 34 was several > 'books' of many pages a piece if I recall correctly. Ummm...if anyone > has the print set for an 11/84 they'd like to go to a good home then > let me know. =-) (If not, I'll probably run across one one of these > days.) > > The machine DOES work apparently and the guy who operated it showed it > to > me today. He claims that it worked fine when they shut it down 2 years > ago (yeah yeah I know) and it's just been sitting in the corner since > then. He claims that if I plugged it in, which I didn't have an > opportunity to do, it would come right up into RSX. We'll see after > next week. One other obstacle is that it all has the funky twisty > safety > plugs on the AC cords but it's configured for 125 v etc so I'll replace > the plugs, like I did on my 34, with high quality normal ones. > > Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime > From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Sep 5 14:12:59 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: Burroughs Computers In-Reply-To: Paul Pierce's message of Fri, 05 Sep 1997 10:14:18 -0700 References: <199709050702.AAA04593@lists2.u.washington.edu> <34103DEA.4C98@hf.intel.com> Message-ID: <199709051913.MAA14025@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Paul Pierce wrote: > The A-series computers are stack machines. Its a very interesting > architecture. At the time of the B5000 series it was considered ahead of > its time, but now that architecture is essentially dead. The most recent > new stack machine I know of is the original HP 3000 minicomputer from > the late 70's early 80's. The "classic" HP 3000 is identified by its series. Numbers <= 70, no designation at all, and the letters "CX" alone mean it's the classic stack machine. Numbers >= 900 mean it's a PA-RISC 3000. The first HP 3000s were shipped in November 1972, and were pretty much a disaster -- HP ended up recalling them. But they kept plugging at it and turned it into what I think is one of the finest transaction-processing systems available. I'm not sure when the last classics were introduced, but I think HP continued to sell some of the low-end ones (Micro 3000 GX/LX/RX) into the early 1990s, certainly into the late 1980s. The last of them go out of support life over the next year or so, though. HP 9000 series 500 (520, 540, 550, was there a 530?) are 32-bit stack machines inside, with the potential for multiple CPUs and IOPs on the larger systems. I think HP now has something called a T500 that is PA-RISC based; the old series 500s are pretty much forgotten (but not all gone, I have a 520 in storage that I need to reanimate). HP sold these from the early-to-mid 1980s before they were superseded by fast Motorola 680[23]0s and PA-RISC systems (series 300/400 and 800/700). -Frank McConnell "I want my MPE" (w/apologies to Dire Straits) From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Sep 5 17:19:41 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:56 2005 Subject: inadvertant dumpster dive sorta Message-ID: <199709052219.AA21535@world.std.com> Stopped at a new used-computer store and... After talking and business cards he offeres me a tandy 1000(25-1051) with docs, cables everything but a monitor and disks. Get it home open it up and it's got: 20meg HDcard Diamond trackstar (128k apple board uses appleDOS3.3) 1200baud modem Docs and the tech manual for the t-1000. not bad, eh! I need to fire it up and see what's on the harddrive (hope its the trackstart files). Allison From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 5 20:43:09 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Finds This Week Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906014309.00682444@pop3.concentric.net> Had a pretty good week picked up the following: 1. Pet 2001-8 with manuals (5.00) 2. Heath HTX-10 about the size of a C64, anyone have info on this one. Also need the 9pin power supply for this unit (5.00) 3. TRS-80 pocket printer parts 4. Apple Color Plus non working (5.00) 5. HP86 with 82936A Rom Drawer cartridge, 82909A 128k Memory module, 82908A 64k Memory module (4.00) 6. VIC Music Composer (.80) 7. VIC Forth (.80) 8. A 1' X 2' box full of new and used parts (still have to get into it) Well that's my finds for the week, have a big computer auction to attend on Saturday. From rcini at classic.msn.com Fri Sep 5 21:02:10 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, I got the RD52 external HD on my MicroVAX-I working tonight. I swapped the blown power supply with a new surplus one. Had to redrill the case, but oh well. I also figured out that the VAX external drive cable is the same as a DB50 SCSI cable. So, the VAX now recognizes that there is an external drive device at /dev/rra1h but it complains that it has a bad superblock and a wrong magic number. It also once complained of a hard error "sn16". Sounds to me that it needs to be reformatted, or whatever the Ultrix equivalent of "fdisk /mbr" is to rebuild the boot block. Here are a few questions: 1. Since I don't know what is on the drive in the first place, how do I avoid a permanent destruction of the file system yet still correcting the problem? 2. If <1> is not possible, how do I go about fixing the problem. I could not find a program named "fdisk", so either it had been deleted from the root partition, or it's under another name. 3. The only way that I could get the drive to respond is to put the cable in the middle connector (J2). The drive did not respond at all in J1 or J3. There must be jumpers somewhere that govern this, like on the buss extender card, but I have no jumper map. 4. {unrelated} Every time I restart the uVAX, it complains about the time needing to be reset. Do the uVAXen have internal clock batteries that have to be recharged/replaced? TIA for any help! +============================================+ | Rich Cini/WUGNET | | | | MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking, | | Charter ClubWin! Member (6) and a | | collector of classic computers | +============================================+ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Sep 5 22:58:16 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help Message-ID: <199709060358.AA14147@world.std.com> is not possible, how do I go about fixing the problem. I < could not find a program named "fdisk", so either it had been < deleted from the root partition, or it's under another name. If it's ultrix then most unix conventions apply. If you booted in single user mode you do not have full access to the system. <3. The only way that I could get the drive to respond is to put < the cable in the middle connector (J2). The drive did not < respond at all in J1 or J3. There must be jumpers somewhere < that govern this, like on the buss extender card, but I have < no jumper map. ???? is this a ba23 or ba123? In a ba23 the rd52 disk is connected via two cables to bulkhead J7 and J2. if its a ba123 with M9058 distribution board then it's rd0(bottom most connector pair). A third possibility is a two box ba23 system using a RQDXE, though drive 0 is nominally in the main box and the rqdxe is only needed for 3 or more drives (including the floppy). <4. {unrelated} Every time I restart the uVAX, it complains about < the time needing to be reset. Do the uVAXen have internal < clock batteries that have to be recharged/replaced? << TIA for any help! Yes on the back of the console connector there is a battery pack of three aaa sized nicads. pull them and charge them by hand. if they don't charge you can find similar packs in many dec systems (rainbow, any ba23 or ba123 or vs2000 box). Also you can use any three cell pack for cordless phones that fit. Allison From dastar at crl.com Sat Sep 6 02:33:31 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: Announcing the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival! ------------------------------------------------------ Mark your calendars! The first ever public celebration of vintage computers will take place at the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, California this October 25th and 26th. The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is the first event of its kind anywhere in the world. This two day festival will feature presentations and workshops by notable computer industry figures and vintage computer hobbyists. There will also be an on-site, hands-on vintage computer exhibition. Experiment with the classic computers of yesteryear! Each year a computer from the past is placed in the Vintage Computer Spotlight. This year we focus on the Apple ][. To celebrate the 20th anniversary of this classic, we will be giving away an original Apple ][ personal computer! Each person who attends the VCF is automatically entered into the drawing! Both seasoned and new computer collectors will enjoy workshops and panels to share ideas and learn about finding, acquiring, restoring, and enjoying vintage computers. The VCF also features the Vintage Computer Flea Market. Find those old computers, peripherals, manuals, and programs you've been looking for! The flea market is the ideal way for new comers to the field to start their own collection or for seasoned collectors to add to their existing stash. Celebrate the good old days of computing! Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival!!! When: October 25-26th, 9:00AM - 5:00PM daily Where: Alameda County Fairgrounds, Pleasanton, California Admission: Pre-registered ($SAVE$) Individual: $15 Family: $24 (two adults and four children) Benefits of pre-registration include: o Access to speakers, workshops, flea market and exhibition o Pre-paid parking To pre-register, send a check or money order to: Vintage Computer Festival 4275-29 Rosewood Drive #161 Pleasanton, California 94588 Please make checks payable to "Vintage Computer Festival" At-the-door o Speakers, Workshops, Flea Market and Exhibition Individual: $10.00 Family: $16.00 o Flea Market and Exhibition only Individual: $5.00 Family: $10.00 Please note: "At-the-door" rate is for a one day pass only and does not include parking. For more information including the latest list of speakers and workshops please check out: http://www.siconic.com/vcf or send e-mail to: mailto:vcf@siconic.com SEE YOU AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL!!! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From ccm at sentex.net Sat Sep 6 08:08:30 1997 From: ccm at sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: <199709061308.JAA26726@granite.sentex.net> You've done well Luke Skywalker. This is an effective announcement and good use of the web for current list of speakers. What about newsgroups? Who is sending this announcement to them and which ones? How about funding? What do you think? You're doing a good overall job. All good things start small. No matter who or how many attend, you will be able to say you did it. Mind you, the bills must be paid. Please let me tell you a short story. I thought we had a great idea for a fund-raiser for the COMMPUTERSEUM. We would hold a public viewing of Triumphs of the Nerds complete with door prizes and lots'o fun (picture this: the ticket numbers were printed in binary, octal, and hex yet the door prize numbers were called out in decimal, so to win you first had to convert!). We called it Nerd Night, got lots'o publicity, a nice theater on campus at the University of Waterloo (perhaps you've heard of it by its nickname - Microsoft U.). Everyone said what a great idea, ha, ha Nerd Night in a city of nerds - we called it a Nerdly Celebration, PBS gave us a free copy of Triumph and permission to use it to raise funds. Everything pointed towards success...little did we know...At the appointed time the theater was empty soon three people showed up. Gee wiz, $30 in receipts. Oh well more will come, we thught, so we started the film. Suddenly it occured to me; if we show the film thereby renting the theater and no one else comes we'll lose money. So in the dark I stoped the VCR and when the lights came on explained the situation to the audience and offered to let them borrow the tapes and return their money. Everyone understood and agreed, two borrowed the tapes, all three left their money with the COMMPUTERSEUM. A failure? Perhaps, but we learned and probably all sorts of people think a Nerd Night was held in Waterloo, Ontario., well hey, it did. It's on record. Take care ace Kevin > > > Announcing the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival! > ------------------------------------------------------ > >Mark your calendars! The first ever public celebration of vintage >computers will take place at the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, >California this October 25th and 26th. > >The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is the first event of its kind >anywhere in the world. This two day festival will feature presentations >and workshops by notable computer industry figures and vintage computer >hobbyists. There will also be an on-site, hands-on vintage computer >exhibition. Experiment with the classic computers of yesteryear! > >Each year a computer from the past is placed in the Vintage Computer >Spotlight. This year we focus on the Apple ][. To celebrate the 20th >anniversary of this classic, we will be giving away an original Apple ][ >personal computer! Each person who attends the VCF is automatically >entered into the drawing! > >Both seasoned and new computer collectors will enjoy workshops and >panels to share ideas and learn about finding, acquiring, restoring, >and enjoying vintage computers. > >The VCF also features the Vintage Computer Flea Market. Find those old >computers, peripherals, manuals, and programs you've been looking for! >The flea market is the ideal way for new comers to the field to start >their own collection or for seasoned collectors to add to their existing >stash. > >Celebrate the good old days of computing! Attend the First Annual Vintage >Computer Festival!!! > > > When: October 25-26th, 9:00AM - 5:00PM daily > > Where: Alameda County Fairgrounds, Pleasanton, California > >Admission: Pre-registered ($SAVE$) > > Individual: $15 > Family: $24 (two adults and four children) > > Benefits of pre-registration include: > > o Access to speakers, workshops, flea market and > exhibition > o Pre-paid parking > > To pre-register, send a check or money order to: > > Vintage Computer Festival > 4275-29 Rosewood Drive #161 > Pleasanton, California 94588 > > Please make checks payable to "Vintage Computer Festival" > > > At-the-door > > o Speakers, Workshops, Flea Market and Exhibition > > Individual: $10.00 > Family: $16.00 > > o Flea Market and Exhibition only > > Individual: $5.00 > Family: $10.00 > > Please note: "At-the-door" rate is for a one day pass > only and does not include parking. > > >For more information including the latest list of speakers and workshops >please check out: > > http://www.siconic.com/vcf > >or send e-mail to: > > mailto:vcf@siconic.com > > > SEE YOU AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL!!! > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > > From manney at nwohio.com Fri Sep 5 14:04:35 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <199709061824.LAA06909@mx4.u.washington.edu> A friend (yes, Virginia, I do have a friend) has a Mac plus for sale. 80 MB HDD (I think)...software includes Claris Works and some other stuff. He wants $300 US, but will probably be willing to negotiate. manney@nwohio.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 6 14:56:18 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help In-Reply-To: <199709060358.AA14147@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Sep 5, 97 11:58:16 pm Message-ID: <9709061856.AA19855@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970906/339afdc1/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Sep 6 14:21:48 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <970906152138_657905245@emout18.mail.aol.com> $300!? I know its not april fool's day. I must have got a deal of the century when I got a mac ][cx and 3.5 drive for $25... david In a message dated 97-09-06 14:26:50 EDT, you write: << A friend (yes, Virginia, I do have a friend) has a Mac plus for sale. 80 MB HDD (I think)...software includes Claris Works and some other stuff. He wants $300 US, but will probably be willing to negotiate. manney@nwohio.com >> From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Sep 6 14:40:02 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help In-Reply-To: <9709061856.AA19855@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > > A microvax-1? Really? Are you sure of that? > > I would tend to agree - a Microvax I is pretty darn useless. But you > have to remember that we're dealing with fanatical collectors, not people > who use the boxes for useful things :-). > > Despite their possible historical significance, I've never been able > to justify keeping a Microvax I around. The 11/730 - which for most I suppose it'd be a relatively UN-power-sucking way to enjoy or learn VAX assembly language. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 6 16:45:15 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 6, 97 02:02:10 am Message-ID: <9709062045.AA13338@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1270 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970906/977d9c10/attachment.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Sep 6 11:56:32 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <970906152138_657905245@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <199709062054.QAA02932@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 15:21:48 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: FS: Mac Plus Yeah right, 300 bux, I would ask owner for more stuff to go with or hack the price to 20 dollars. 300 dollars should be decent si or IIfx box with a monitor. This is true sign of a Mac person who see things differently. Jason D. > $300!? I know its not april fool's day. I must have got a deal of the century > when I got a mac ][cx and 3.5 drive for $25... > > david > > In a message dated 97-09-06 14:26:50 EDT, you write: > > << A friend (yes, Virginia, I do have a friend) has a Mac plus for sale. 80 > MB > HDD (I think)...software includes Claris Works and some other stuff. He > wants $300 US, but will probably be willing to negotiate. > > manney@nwohio.com >> From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Sat Sep 6 16:24:01 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: CP/M, etc., 8" diskette value? Message-ID: Does anyone where there more knowledgeable than I happen to know what today's "going rate" is for old 8" diskettes. BLANK, and unlabeled... otherwise in mint-condition with jackets. I am looking at buying some and am curious as to how much they are usually sold for these days. Thanks in advance, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Sep 6 16:28:38 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help Message-ID: <199709062128.AA17720@world.std.com> <> Despite their possible historical significance, I've never been able <> to justify keeping a Microvax I around. The 11/730 - which for most < Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, PG Manney wrote: > A friend (yes, Virginia, I do have a friend) has a Mac plus for sale. 80 MB > HDD (I think)...software includes Claris Works and some other stuff. He > wants $300 US, but will probably be willing to negotiate. He'd better be willing to negotiate. $300 is way, way too much. With the hard disk he can maybe get $40. Nothing against the computer but its just that they are a nickel a dozen. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 6 17:37:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: CP/M, etc., 8" diskette value? In-Reply-To: from "Cord Coslor" at Sep 6, 97 04:24:01 pm Message-ID: <9709062137.AA22683@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 469 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970906/c2e09b2d/attachment.ksh From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Sep 6 16:34:33 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <199709062054.QAA02932@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > Yeah right, 300 bux, I would ask owner for more stuff to go with or > hack the price to 20 dollars. 300 dollars should be decent si or > IIfx box with a monitor. > > This is true sign of a Mac person who see things differently. I don't really think a statement like this is necessary. I won't start a flame war over this nor do I think it's appropriate to discuss it much farther than to say that just because someone selects a price that's wrong doesn't mean they have ill intent. Mac people are no more or less likely to pick a too-high price than anyone else. In our local paper, Mac and PC people alike choose prices that are 10 times too high. It doesn't mean they're evil. It just means that they don't deal in computers on a regular basis and aren't familiar with market values. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Sep 6 16:36:21 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: CP/M, etc., 8" diskette value? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anyone where there more knowledgeable than I happen to know what > today's "going rate" is for old 8" diskettes. BLANK, and unlabeled... > otherwise in mint-condition with jackets. I am looking at buying some and > am curious as to how much they are usually sold for these days. I paid $6 for three still-shrinkwrapped boxes of 8" diskettes at a used computer store. I've also paid $2 for 4 boxes of HIGHLY used 8" diskettes at a hamfest recently. But I know that if you buy them new...and there ARE still distributors that carry them...they are FAR more expensive. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Sep 6 16:37:24 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help In-Reply-To: <199709062128.AA17720@world.std.com> Message-ID: > <> Despite their possible historical significance, I've never been able > <> to justify keeping a Microvax I around. The 11/730 - which for most > < > > Microvax-I uses more power than a microvax-II. The lowest power VAXen of > the lot may be the vs2000 or the 3100m38s as they are in the PC power use > range and performance is good(maybe the best!) on a per watt basis. UN-power-sucking compared to an 11/750 is what I meant. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Sep 6 13:36:25 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: References: <199709062054.QAA02932@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199709062234.SAA15025@mail.cgocable.net> Sorry for ranting, I feel like one. My mouth got shot off without enough thinking, was tired at that time; > > Yeah right, 300 bux, I would ask owner for more stuff to go with or > > hack the price to 20 dollars. 300 dollars should be decent si or > > IIfx box with a monitor. > > > > This is true sign of a Mac person who see things differently. Oops I worded it wrongly...have a mercy on me! Anyway you're correct that I should thought of this. I wished this owner(s) took the initation and asked someone who knows the typical values these days. From time to time, I check the paper too and I was disgusted: Some wants 600cdn to 1000cdn for a 486 or (shudders!) 386 complete system. Early types of Pentiums are joining the old group real soon. (Referring to 60/66 and up to 100mhz versions) But with care, can lug along happily with lots of memory (read: cheaper method!) and upgrade the hd/video card. Too often, I see that in comp.sys.laptops many asking for 300 for a typical 386 laptop or notebook. That cost range now belongs to 486 33 to 100mhz notebooks. Used 1 or 2 yr old Pentium ones now fetches under 1000 now. And sellers gets clobbered and a tractful new price from other readers on 'net. This reminds me to this relationship: Yesterday, I was asked to put win95 on her pc as part of her voc. education and I said slow down, I can not rush in and say yeah and do it. Got to see her 486-33/8mb (gasp! hd thrashing/crashing more possible, I've been there and done.) pc and stared, look, no cdrom. And I was told by her that her husband brought new system for her daughter at cool price of 8000 cdn and I wondered about that price because her daughter needs a pc for her law study at college, The typical use is WP use in that kind of area even a $500-1000 base pentium system would fit very well for that! Again with $8000, Easy to get 3 VERY decent P5 166/64mb/2.5GB/new complete systems with truck loads of legal software for each pc and a good laser printer or two to go with either two of them. Gave her few polite suggestions to upgrade her system with cdrom, more memory and possible whole pc rebuild with new parts because the cost is not that bad then gave her nice thanks and left. (cdrom drive is now a MUST item for every pc along with overdue outdated 1.44 drive. ) Reason behind this putting 95 on old pc is very impractial these days is: Win95 is very demanding OS than any 3.xx windows. And I really personally dislike win95 now because I now have a minor problem with my pc (hardware all dandy and working) forgot it's energy saving to blank the screen and power down the monitor despite the all the settings are correct in my display icon! Even changed the different vid card for another along with correct driver d/l'ed from website. That dumb registry thing is driving me crazy because it sometimes breaks and requires some work by installing a unneeded option then uninstall it or reinstall other things to get things fixed. Real easy to break it with novice users as well. I want none of that ideas that Mr. Gates and funny PnP, winmodems that came out. I do not understand this. This win95 (blows) leads to other options which I am looking at linux. Linux is very promising and I am learning to use it, trying to upgrade my old 2 4+ yr old 386 portables first also currently learning on my other pentium 75 o/c'ed to 100 lunchbox. Then install it on main pc when I feel more confident to put it to real use. :) > I don't really think a statement like this is necessary. I won't > start > a flame war over this nor do I think it's appropriate to discuss it much > farther than to say that just because someone selects a price that's > wrong doesn't mean they have ill intent. Mac people are no more or less > likely to pick a too-high price than anyone else. In our local paper, > Mac and PC people alike choose prices that are 10 times too high. > > It doesn't mean they're evil. It just means that they don't deal in > computers on a regular basis and aren't familiar with market values. > > Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime Jason D. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Sep 6 17:53:12 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906225312.006697b4@pop3.concentric.net> I can get MAC Plus's for $5.35 including tax. I've have 3 or 4 already so I just walk by them now. At 03:04 PM 9/5/97 -0400, you wrote: >A friend (yes, Virginia, I do have a friend) has a Mac plus for sale. 80 MB >HDD (I think)...software includes Claris Works and some other stuff. He >wants $300 US, but will probably be willing to negotiate. > >manney@nwohio.com > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Sep 6 18:27:55 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: New finds and info needed Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970906232755.006782d8@pop3.concentric.net> I spent the morning at an auction and got the following; 1. IBM Powerstation 320 with a 19' monitor 6091-19 with cable (3 BNC), anyone having some info this unit I could use it. Can't get it to show anything on the monitor. All lights are on. 2. IBM Powerstation 220 with 17" monitor this unit is locked in service mode and I did not get a key. Any info this one would be great. 3. MAC LC III with full display monitor unit works and is loaded with software. 4. MAC SE FDHD works great and is also loaded with software. 5. Apple TechStep testing unit with case, manuals, software, and cables. Now I really do some unit testing. 6. About 10 very large boxes full of IBM PS/2's and other parts. I have very busy weekend with these boxes. well that's it. see ya From marvin at rain.org Sat Sep 6 19:30:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: CP/M, etc., 8" diskette value? References: Message-ID: <3411F59E.AE06D4B@rain.org> Cord Coslor wrote: > Does anyone where there more knowledgeable than I happen to know what > today's "going rate" is for old 8" diskettes. BLANK, and unlabeled... > otherwise in mint-condition with jackets. I am looking at buying some and > am curious as to how much they are usually sold for these days. I haven't tried to buy any from a dealer, but I got some unopened boxes of 8" floppy disks a little over a year ago and the guy was asking about $1 a box. Usually when I find them, whoever has them will just give them to me just to get rid of them although I haven't seen too many in the past several months. From rcini at classic.msn.com Sat Sep 6 20:17:30 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX Help Message-ID: On Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: >A microvax-1? Really? Are you sure of that? Isn't a VAXstation-I considered a MicroVAX-I? One of the FAQs that I read made this reference, and it's a lot faster to type "uVAX" then "VAXstation" >>Most of them couldn't support enough memory to run netbsd or ultrix. >>Generally in their day it was 2mb, sometimes 3mb. The reason was the >>CPU was two boards and memory at the time was either 512k or 1mb per >>board and there was only 8 slots in a ba23. so the typical line up was cpu, >>4 memory cards, an rqdx2 disk and a DHV or DZV serial card. the problem >>was that would put the power supply 20% over the top! This makes some sense. One of the first things that I had to fix was a melted power supply cable between the power supply (375w) and the backplane. Here is what I can see as the configuration: 4mb RAM, one DHV serial card, DEQNA Ethernet, a M9047 board (??), M7512 buss extender, an RQDX1, MSV11-Q memory, and 2 processor boards. I know that the MSV11 is only a 1mb board, but the bootloader reports about 3.5mb of RAM. The model tag on the back lists "610QK-XZ changed to VS20C-R2". It also has 2 internal floppy drives and one internal RD52 hard drive. <1. Since I don't know what is on the drive in the first place, how < do I avoid a permanent destruction of the file system yet still < correcting the problem? >>Well you have to know whats on the drive first. I've never seen a MV-1 >>running ultrix though it may be possible. < <2. If <1> is not possible, how do I go about fixing the problem. I < could not find a program named "fdisk", so either it had been < deleted from the root partition, or it's under another name. >>If it's ultrix then most unix conventions apply. >>If you booted in single user mode you do not have full access to the >>system. Would I accomplish this by logging-in to the system? Unfortunately, I don't have the root password. How can I get around this? <3. The only way that I could get the drive to respond is to put < the cable in the middle connector (J2). The drive did not < respond at all in J1 or J3. There must be jumpers somewhere < that govern this, like on the buss extender card, but I have < no jumper map. >>???? is this a ba23 or ba123? In a ba23 the rd52 disk is connected via >>two cables to bulkhead J7 and J2. if its a ba123 with M9058 distribution >>board then it's rd0(bottom most connector pair). The "J2" refers to the J2 on the external RD52 drive case. The buss extender is brought out to a DB50 to position "F" on the bulkhead. On the RD52 case, there are three DB50 connectors, J1 to J3. The drive only responds when using J2. Is this OK? How is this changed? <4. {unrelated} Every time I restart the uVAX, it complains about < the time needing to be reset. Do the uVAXen have internal < clock batteries that have to be recharged/replaced? << TIA for any help! >>Yes on the back of the console connector there is a battery pack of three >>aaa sized nicads. pull them and charge them by hand. if they don't charge >>you can find similar packs in many dec systems (rainbow, any ba23 or >>ba123 or vs2000 box). Also you can use any three cell pack for cordless >>phones that fit. Are you referring to the console connector on the bulkhead? On this unit, there is no battery pack. It only has two ribbon cables going to the processor boards. With this additional info, what do you recommend to do now? Thanks again for the help! Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com Rich From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Sep 6 21:34:28 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Lost Message Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907023428.00678410@pop3.concentric.net> Tried sending a message four times with no luck ?? Looking for info on HTX-10 from Heathkit ?? From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Sun Sep 7 01:39:57 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970907063957.00859eb4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 06:36 PM 06/09/97 +0000, you wrote: >stared, look, no cdrom. And I was told by her that her husband >brought new system for her daughter at cool price of 8000 cdn and I >wondered about that price because her daughter needs a pc for her law >study at college, The typical use is WP use in that kind of area >even a $500-1000 base pentium system would fit very well for that! >Again with $8000, Easy to get 3 VERY decent P5 166/64mb/2.5GB/new >complete systems with truck loads of legal software for each >pc and a good laser printer or two to go with either two of them. Sounds like a candidate for the "Most Inappropriate use of Computer Hardware Award" to me. A WP, you could stick WP5.1 on an 8088 if it comes to that. Sounds like a member of the administration (who will remain nameless to protect the moronic) at the university I waste money in. Just after purchasing a spanking new Pentium 166 with 64mb and all the goodies, including an ATI All in Wonder card (on our nickel I might add!), he asked his secretary to scare up a new template for WP5.1, For this is all he used it for! (where's my wailin' stick when I need it :) >as well. I want none of that ideas that Mr. Gates and funny PnP, >winmodems that came out. I do not understand this. I stay away from anything that uses "win" as a prefix. What, no jumpers? Basically if Win95 can't get it to work on whatever IRQ or port that the device wants, your screwed. >This win95 (blows) leads to other options which I am looking at >linux. Linux is very promising and I am learning to use it, trying >to upgrade my old 2 4+ yr old 386 portables first also currently >learning on my other pentium 75 o/c'ed to 100 lunchbox. Then install >it on main pc when I feel more confident to put it to real use. :) Looking for a UNIX like OS for you 386? Why don't you get MINIX? A lot less overhead and pretty easy to set up. (not much out for it yet, put the list grows everyday) You could even get a version of Xwindows for it, and MINIX will run on an XT! (two versions, i86 and 386) Speaking of UNIX-like OS's, anybody remember Sundown drives which came loaded with Venix86? I believe a company called Unisource sold them. I wonder if there may be a 'virgin' drive somewhere just waiting to be used... ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Sun Sep 7 01:45:01 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970907064501.00856c00@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 05:53 PM 06/09/97 -0500, you wrote: >I can get MAC Plus's for $5.35 including tax. I've have 3 or 4 already so I >just walk by them now. $5.35 taxes in?!? Where? I live in a MAC deprived world. I would be very interested in getting a few MAC plus's to add to my collection (i would be interested in getting anything to add to my collection) Please let me know where I could get some of these MACs ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 7 03:26:55 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage Message-ID: Hi, My find of the day was a "Northstar Advantage" and as per my normal luck with CP/M systems no OS. Still it seems to power on OK. I've got a few questions on it. First and formost would be where can I get an OS (would the Osbourne version of CP/M boot it)? Is there a "Monitor ROM" that I can drop the machine into? I see from the list of computers on the mailing lists web site, it's got a Z80 and a i80186 processors in it, OK that's nice, what does that mean to me? Also are there any good info resources for the "Northstar Advantage"? The one I've got has a 1" x 6" strip of metal with two threaded posts near the top sticking out (great for messing up arms), it's been stuck to the side of the case with that thin sticky foam, is this stock, or an add on? Any ideas what on earth it's for? I'm thinking a copy stand. Pardon my probable stupidity when it comes to CP/M systems, I think I'm up to four of them now, but only the Osbourne has disks and it won't boot, I think it's got a bad A: drive, because the disks boot a friends Osbourne. Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 7 03:57:44 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970907063957.00859eb4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Message-ID: >protect the moronic) at the university I waste money in. Just after >purchasing a spanking new Pentium 166 with 64mb and all the goodies, >including an ATI All in Wonder card (on our nickel I might add!), he asked >his secretary to scare up a new template for WP5.1, For this is all he used >it for! (where's my wailin' stick when I need it :) Now that is scary. Unfortunatly that is what a lot of people spend several thousand to do. Me I've got a Mac SE/30 that I picked up for ~$50, fixed it, and use it to run MS Word 5.1 (Note, Word is the only MS product I use). It's a great machine for writing, and if you honestly need more you probably need something running PageMaker or QuarkXPress. If a person wants a computer for Word Processing they should pick up an old Macintosh, preferably with at least a 68030/16 processor (basically the third notch on the old speed meter). If you look around these systems are dirt cheap, and anyone can use them. I got my Mom a Mac IIcx with monitor, keyboard, mouse, and software for $60 at an auction earlier this year, she loves it, and it does everything she needs. >>This win95 (blows) leads to other options which I am looking at >>linux. Linux is very promising and I am learning to use it, trying >>to upgrade my old 2 4+ yr old 386 portables first also currently >>learning on my other pentium 75 o/c'ed to 100 lunchbox. Then install >>it on main pc when I feel more confident to put it to real use. :) > > Looking for a UNIX like OS for you 386? Why don't you get MINIX? A lot >less overhead and pretty easy to set up. (not much out for it yet, put the >list grows everyday) You could even get a version of Xwindows for it, and >MINIX will run on an XT! (two versions, i86 and 386) Couple of questions. How much does Minix cost now days? Last I looked it was ~$200 for the PC, although I'll admit this was back in '92 when it was a fairly good alternative to Linux (I remember when Linux didn't have a login prompt, you were dropped staight to single user). You can get a 6-CD Linux set for $25. Second, what major UNIX apps are there for Minix? Linux has basically all the freeware ones (when it comes to UNIX don't let the term freeware scare you away, it's often far better than commercial PC software). The minimal system I've run Linux on was a 386sx/16 Twinhead laptop with 4Mb of RAM (the max the computer can handle), and a 350Mb Hard Drive. I used it for TeX (typesetting), College Ingres (database originally written for PDP 11's running UNIX I think), and X-Windows for previewing the DVI files created with TeX. Yes, I actually was able to run X on this relic, and got good performance. I also used it for programming. I've got to admit this was pretty hard to stomach after being used to running on a 486DX/33 system (which has been running Linux from January '92 to present). Note, in an effort to get this thread back on the topic of Classic Computers, Minix is now availabe for free on some platforms. I think this includes at least the Atari and the Macintosh. I'm pretty sure the PC version still costs money. Also GNOME, a UNIX like OS for the Apple IIgs is now freely available. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Sep 7 03:26:21 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Vacation/Weekend Finds... References: <199709060702.AAA15096@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3412652D.68BE@goldrush.com> Hey everybody! Well just got back from a vacation in the (California) bay area... (Petaluma/Santa Rosa area to be more exact) and had a pretty dissapointing time in my rummaging for goodies at thrift shops... Of what I saw that took my notice were a Commodore 1902a monitor ($49, no thanks..) and an un-priced 800 XL keyboard unit. I balked at how much one place wanted to sell TRON figures ($15-$25 yikes!); I did get a certain Pac-Man lunch pail I had my eye on for a few years... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=---=-=-=---=-=-=-- Of course as it normally seems to go for me, my local stops prove more fruitfull. Some of the recent finds include a long sought-after October 1977 issue of Popular Science magazine (I remember seeing it on the newsstands) which displays what seems to be a prototype PET on the cover (w/rounded plastic case, only seen in promotional literature as far as I've seen, PS seems to have added wood-grain contact paper for an enhanced 'homey' look). Have scanned it and hope to put it on the site within the upcoming month or so. Also picked up the March '79 and May '83 issues as they had some cool pics of other early computers and home robots in them. Another very unexpected magazine find was four issues of ANTIC magazine (thier focus is Atari 8-bits), a couple notable articles were on building a lie-dectector and rigging your dot-matrix printer into an image scanner, both utilize the paddle port pins and other easy to get components and also sould be adaptable to the Commodore 64/VIC-20/128. :) Also bought a Fast Load Cartridge and C-64 Dust Cover (with a Protecto logo, remember them?) for a couple bucks. Stuff passed by were a few 64 units (overpriced if you ask me), a couple Plus/4s (one unbeleivably overpriced), and a PET (3.0 ROMs, 32k, w/book) that one was very tempting, but I know how little space I have after my last trip to the storage unit... Also passed a low-profile datasette (I have 30+ datasettes already but can you ever have enough cassette program recorders?) Saw a pretty complete ADAM system too: cpu (one tape drive), printer, controllers, carts, tapes, books (including a misplaced PET book), a couple extra ribbons all for $130 (choke!) though on Staturdays and Wednesdays they sell stuff for 1/2 price (still way too much to me....) Mac 512 (with doumentation), Mac SE, Tandy Model 100, etc.. I could go very broke quick If I started collecting everything, good thing I have control (ok... limited control, which is better then none at all.) One of these vacations I'll get corrdinated enough with one of my friends and spend a couple days in the Palo Alto/Silicon Valley area combing thrift shops, I think I might find some suprises there... Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From maynard at jmg.com Sun Sep 7 08:24:45 1997 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970907063957.00859eb4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> (message from Alan Richards on Sun, 07 Sep 1997 04:39:57 -0200) Message-ID: <199709071324.JAA31398@jmg.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 04:39:57 -0200 > From: Alan Richards > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus > > At 06:36 PM 06/09/97 +0000, you wrote: > [snip] > > >This win95 (blows) leads to other options which I am looking at > >linux. Linux is very promising and I am learning to use it, trying > >to upgrade my old 2 4+ yr old 386 portables first also currently > >learning on my other pentium 75 o/c'ed to 100 lunchbox. Then install > >it on main pc when I feel more confident to put it to real use. :) > > Looking for a UNIX like OS for you 386? Why don't you get MINIX? A lot > less overhead and pretty easy to set up. (not much out for it yet, put the > list grows everyday) You could even get a version of Xwindows for it, and > MINIX will run on an XT! (two versions, i86 and 386) > Because RedHat or Debian will have support for just about every hardware option he might ever need, has precompiled applications in a simple to use and install format (.rpm or .dep), and simple X based TK configuration utilities *somewhat* similar to Windows' control panel. Minux is pretty cool, and until Linux-Lite comes out, the only option for a free Unix like OS (that I know of) on the 8088/80286. But from what I saw, he has at least a 386. I've got a 386DX-20 running Linux performing IP-Masquerading (in kernel IP translation - which minux most definitely *won't* do) and routing, name services for my internal network, a small web server for documentation (to other internal machines), and as a slow SCSI backup server to an old Exabyte (which was the free find of the century, I might add) and am perfectly happy with it's performance and utility. It's simple to install, simple to configure, and once it's done I can leave it up and running without concern. For example: maynard@jmg (129) $ uptime 9:13am up 174 days, 19:18, 2 users, load average: 0.16, 0.07, 0.01 This is an old 486DX40 *with an old flaky VLB*, sitting against a high speed line out in Cincinnati. I'm 1000 miles away, yet I can maintain the box and let it sit to do it's stuff. This is not to say that Minux wouldn't provide the same remote maintenance capabilities as Linux, just to say that I'm pleased with my choice and it's suited my purposes well. Good luck, I can most certainly attest to Linux giving life to old hardware again... but not ancient hardware. For the moment, definitely use Minux for that. J. Maynard Gelinas Although I wonder if anyone out there is actually going to finish the Sun3x Linux port - it looks like the NetBSD Sun3x movement is dead in the water. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.4, an Emacs/PGP interface iQB1AwUBNBKrF40o1eA4JcRZAQEC7wL+L6SfrqfmdqvyYxcjimjaXInoZ2ex43VJ z1qSWbO5dYBLP/AEJZX4jYrfwq+DifGi/XfuwTK8gzrqqVDtHWx+/X4PBm/DXpS0 GlhwpvIcG46luKaKXDOjeg+XYRNuEudO =of7C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 08:39:09 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907133909.006727dc@pop3.concentric.net> 20 of them just got trashed, but if you want a couple I'll be stopping in the shop later this week and if they have a new batch in I will pick you up a couple. We can settle up after I get them. They also have alot of SE's, 512's, and sometimes the 128's. There is also a thrift store here that sells all computers for 80 cents including taxes. Everyone has started going here and it's getting harder to catch any good machines there. If anyone reading this is looking for HP stuff let me know as I passed on a complete HP3000 for $10. At 04:45 AM 9/7/97 -0200, you wrote: >At 05:53 PM 06/09/97 -0500, you wrote: >>I can get MAC Plus's for $5.35 including tax. I've have 3 or 4 already so I >>just walk by them now. > > $5.35 taxes in?!? Where? I live in a MAC deprived world. I would be very >interested in getting a few MAC plus's to add to my collection (i would be >interested in getting anything to add to my collection) Please let me know >where I could get some of these MACs > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >______________________________________________Live from the GLRS > The Man From D.A.D >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 7 10:32:50 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus References: <2.2.32.19970907063957.00859eb4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Message-ID: <3412C921.D0F66A17@rain.org> Alan Richards wrote: > >as well. I want none of that ideas that Mr. Gates and funny PnP, > >winmodems that came out. I do not understand this. > > I stay away from anything that uses "win" as a prefix. What, no jumpers? > > Basically if Win95 can't get it to work on whatever IRQ or port that the > device wants, your screwed. Off topic, but I have always been able to get Plug-and-Pray stuff to work, but then again, I have religion :). The order things get installed in makes a difference as well as knowing how to use the brain damaged interface schemes. From doug at the-one.com Sun Sep 7 12:09:14 1997 From: doug at the-one.com (Doug Rich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970907110914.007e95c0@mail.wco.com> At 12:26 AM 9/7/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, >My find of the day was a "Northstar Advantage" and as per my normal luck >with CP/M systems no OS. Still it seems to power on OK. > >I've got a few questions on it. First and formost would be where can I get >an OS (would the Osbourne version of CP/M boot it)? I believe I have both the CP/M OS and the Northstart OS for this machine. Is there a "Monitor >ROM" that I can drop the machine into? I see from the list of computers on >the mailing lists web site, it's got a Z80 and a i80186 processors in it, >OK that's nice, what does that mean to me? Also are there any good info >resources for the "Northstar Advantage"? > >The one I've got has a 1" x 6" strip of metal with two threaded posts near >the top sticking out (great for messing up arms), it's been stuck to the >side of the case with that thin sticky foam, is this stock, or an add on? Not stock. >Any ideas what on earth it's for? I'm thinking a copy stand. > >Pardon my probable stupidity when it comes to CP/M systems, I think I'm up >to four of them now, but only the Osbourne has disks and it won't boot, I >think it's got a bad A: drive, because the disks boot a friends Osbourne. > > Thanks, > Zane > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | >+----------------------------------+---------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > I was a Nothstar dealer and sold the Advantage. If I can help let me know. doug@the-one.com From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Sep 7 12:17:34 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Strange Dream Last Night In-Reply-To: <199709062234.SAA15025@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > My mouth got shot off without enough thinking, was tired at that > time; > > > Yeah right, 300 bux, I would ask owner for more stuff to go with or > > > hack the price to 20 dollars. 300 dollars should be decent si or > > > IIfx box with a monitor. > > > > > > This is true sign of a Mac person who see things differently. > Oops I worded it wrongly...have a mercy on me! > Anyway you're correct that I should thought of this. I had a strange dream last night that I thought would amuse everyone: It started out kinda weird...I got injured and had to stay in the hospital but the location where I got hurt was a thrift store that is near my home. At any rate, after I healed, I was trying to find my way to the home of a amateur radio operator who had offered me some old computers but I got side-tracked on the way, as the friends with whom I was riding, wanted to stop a flea market...you know the kind with Elvis pictures and so on. I started wandering around and noticed under tables 1970s disk subsystems and the like and a Cromemco System. Just as I was reaching for it, however, a proprietor grabbed it and took it into a building. So I followed him and asked him the price and another guy walked up and said, "Between 1 and 56 dollars" so I offered him the last 8 dollars in my pocket and he accepted it. Maybe I've just got collecting on the brain or something. =-) Perhaps around Halloween I'll start a "Computer Collecting X-Files" thread. ;-D Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Sep 7 12:56:02 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival In-Reply-To: <199709061308.JAA26726@granite.sentex.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970907135602.0068a884@mail.wincom.net> At 09:08 AM 9/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >You've done well Luke Skywalker. > >This is an effective announcement and good use of the web for current list >of speakers. > >What about newsgroups? Who is sending this announcement to them and which ones? > >How about funding? What do you think? > >You're doing a good overall job. All good things start small. No matter who >or how many attend, you will be able to say you did it. Mind you, the bills >must be paid. > >Please let me tell you a short story. I thought we had a great idea for a >fund-raiser for the COMMPUTERSEUM. We would hold a public viewing of >Triumphs of the Nerds complete with door prizes and lots'o fun (picture >this: the ticket numbers were printed in binary, octal, and hex yet the door >prize numbers were called out in decimal, so to win you first had to >convert!). We called it Nerd Night, got lots'o publicity, a nice theater on >campus at the University of Waterloo (perhaps you've heard of it by its >nickname - Microsoft U.). Everyone said what a great idea, ha, ha Nerd Night >in a city of nerds - we called it a Nerdly Celebration, PBS gave us a free >copy of Triumph and permission to use it to raise funds. Everything pointed >towards success...little did we know...At the appointed time the theater was >empty soon three people showed up. > >Gee wiz, $30 in receipts. Oh well more will come, we thught, so we started >the film. Suddenly it occured to me; if we show the film thereby renting the >theater and no one else comes we'll lose money. So in the dark I stoped the >VCR and when the lights came on explained the situation to the audience and >offered to let them borrow the tapes and return their money. Everyone >understood and agreed, two borrowed the tapes, all three left their money >with the COMMPUTERSEUM. A failure? Perhaps, but we learned and probably all >sorts of people think a Nerd Night was held in Waterloo, Ontario., well hey, >it did. It's on record. > >Take care ace > > >Kevin Sounds like Napoleon was not the only one to have problems at Waterloo! Regards Charlie Fox >> >> >> Announcing the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival! >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >>Mark your calendars! The first ever public celebration of vintage >>computers will take place at the Alameda County Fairgrounds in Pleasanton, >>California this October 25th and 26th. >> >>The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is the first event of its kind >>anywhere in the world. This two day festival will feature presentations >>and workshops by notable computer industry figures and vintage computer >>hobbyists. There will also be an on-site, hands-on vintage computer >>exhibition. Experiment with the classic computers of yesteryear! >> >>Each year a computer from the past is placed in the Vintage Computer >>Spotlight. This year we focus on the Apple ][. To celebrate the 20th >>anniversary of this classic, we will be giving away an original Apple ][ >>personal computer! Each person who attends the VCF is automatically >>entered into the drawing! >> >>Both seasoned and new computer collectors will enjoy workshops and >>panels to share ideas and learn about finding, acquiring, restoring, >>and enjoying vintage computers. >> >>The VCF also features the Vintage Computer Flea Market. Find those old >>computers, peripherals, manuals, and programs you've been looking for! >>The flea market is the ideal way for new comers to the field to start >>their own collection or for seasoned collectors to add to their existing >>stash. >> >>Celebrate the good old days of computing! Attend the First Annual Vintage >>Computer Festival!!! >> >> >> When: October 25-26th, 9:00AM - 5:00PM daily >> >> Where: Alameda County Fairgrounds, Pleasanton, California >> >>Admission: Pre-registered ($SAVE$) >> >> Individual: $15 >> Family: $24 (two adults and four children) >> >> Benefits of pre-registration include: >> >> o Access to speakers, workshops, flea market and >> exhibition >> o Pre-paid parking >> >> To pre-register, send a check or money order to: >> >> Vintage Computer Festival >> 4275-29 Rosewood Drive #161 >> Pleasanton, California 94588 >> >> Please make checks payable to "Vintage Computer Festival" >> >> >> At-the-door >> >> o Speakers, Workshops, Flea Market and Exhibition >> >> Individual: $10.00 >> Family: $16.00 >> >> o Flea Market and Exhibition only >> >> Individual: $5.00 >> Family: $10.00 >> >> Please note: "At-the-door" rate is for a one day pass >> only and does not include parking. >> >> >>For more information including the latest list of speakers and workshops >>please check out: >> >> http://www.siconic.com/vcf >> >>or send e-mail to: >> >> mailto:vcf@siconic.com >> >> >> SEE YOU AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL!!! >> >> >>Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >>Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass >> >> >> > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 7 13:45:23 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Burroughs & Misc References: <3.0.2.32.19970907135602.0068a884@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3412F643.7948DB1E@rain.org> Stuff - I just picked up some 15 sheets of original "Leo Computers, LTD" stationary! I would have thought this type of stuff long gone, but I guess not! Among the Burroughs stuff I picked up today were some digital cassettes (standard audio like cassettes) for what appears to be the Burroughs B1000. Some of the tapes have names like "Pack/Init 13.0 XM3", Cold Boot, Clear/Start, etc. as well as some still in the clear wrapping. Anyone have a need for stuff like this? Also, I found a few spools of tape, both the small and large sizes (8" and 12"???) for one of the Burroughs mahcines if anyone needs them. I didn't take a close look at the titles but they appeared to be stuff being worked on rather than system tapes. From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 7 14:07:17 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970907133909.006727dc@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: >20 of them just got trashed, but if you want a couple I'll be stopping in >the shop later this week and if they have a new batch in I will pick you up >a couple. We can settle up after I get them. They also have alot of SE's, >512's, and sometimes the 128's. There is also a thrift store here that >sells all computers for 80 cents including taxes. Everyone has started going >here and it's getting harder to catch any good machines there. If anyone >reading this is looking for HP stuff let me know as I passed on a complete >HP3000 for $10. Out of curiousity, where is this place? (That's the problem with a global network, one man's "down the road" is another's "across the continent".) If you ever see a Mac portable (yes, the big one) or a TRS-80 Model 100 at one of these places at a comparable price, then please grab one for me. <<>> From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 7 14:22:29 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <199709071324.JAA31398@jmg.com> References: <2.2.32.19970907063957.00859eb4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> (message from Alan Richards on Sun, 07 Sep 1997 04:39:57 -0200) Message-ID: > Although I wonder if anyone out there is actually going to >finish the Sun3x Linux port - it looks like the NetBSD Sun3x movement >is dead in the water. Damn, I hope it's not dead. I just picked up a 3/80 (8mb, diskless) and a type 4 keyboard/mouse. (No monitor, but I have an old Hitachi that I hope may be compatible.) Anyway, as soon as I straighten out and "Invalid IDPROM" message, I was hoping to put up either SunOS or NetBSD. BTW, anyone have a suggestion as to which is better? <<>> From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 15:36:17 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907203617.0068e40c@pop3.concentric.net> There here the twin cities and no I have not seen a MAC portable there yet. As for the Model 100's 6 of them went for 80 cent each about four weeks ago and they had doc's, software and other items with them, I walked in 10 minutes too late. I'll keep my eyes open for you. At 04:07 PM 9/7/97 -0300, you wrote: >>20 of them just got trashed, but if you want a couple I'll be stopping in >>the shop later this week and if they have a new batch in I will pick you up >>a couple. We can settle up after I get them. They also have alot of SE's, >>512's, and sometimes the 128's. There is also a thrift store here that >>sells all computers for 80 cents including taxes. Everyone has started going >>here and it's getting harder to catch any good machines there. If anyone >>reading this is looking for HP stuff let me know as I passed on a complete >>HP3000 for $10. > >Out of curiousity, where is this place? (That's the problem with a global >network, one man's "down the road" is another's "across the continent".) > >If you ever see a Mac portable (yes, the big one) or a TRS-80 Model 100 at >one of these places at a comparable price, then please grab one for me. > ><<>> > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 15:41:18 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907204118.0068c03c@pop3.concentric.net> If you need the Sun monitor let me know as a load of them mono and color were trashed a week ago. Several places here are dumoing them along with 3/50's, 3/60's and 3/80's. I picked up a few for my collection but have no software are HD for any of them. I picked a Sun HD unit for 5.00 but got home to find the HD was gone from inside. Keep computing. At 04:22 PM 9/7/97 -0300, you wrote: > >> Although I wonder if anyone out there is actually going to >>finish the Sun3x Linux port - it looks like the NetBSD Sun3x movement >>is dead in the water. > >Damn, I hope it's not dead. I just picked up a 3/80 (8mb, diskless) and a >type 4 keyboard/mouse. (No monitor, but I have an old Hitachi that I hope >may be >compatible.) > >Anyway, as soon as I straighten out and "Invalid IDPROM" message, I was >hoping to put up either SunOS or NetBSD. > >BTW, anyone have a suggestion as to which is better? > ><<>> > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 15:56:59 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907205659.0067c798@pop3.concentric.net> Heatkit HTX-10 ni power supply was with it. anyone have info on this puppy? Pet 2001-8 series with manuals, have tested this one yet. HP 86 with ROM Drawer, 128k module, and 64k module. VIC music composer and Forth cartridges. Back to work now, keep computing From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 7 15:18:07 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970907205659.0067c798@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: >Heatkit HTX-10 ni power supply was with it. anyone have info on this puppy? If that's the one I think it is, it was desgined as a cheap dial-up terminal. Everhting is in the KB, except for powersupply and composite monitor. I think it also had a built-in 300 (1200?) baud modem. <<>> From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 7 15:20:15 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970907203617.0068e40c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: >There here the twin cities and no I have not seen a MAC portable there yet. >As for the Model 100's 6 of them went for 80 cent each about four weeks ago >and they had doc's, software and other items with them, I walked in 10 >minutes too late. I'll keep my eyes open for you. Drat! Somebody got a great deal, especially when you consider that the going price on the net for a 100 is about 100 times the 80 cent price. Thanks for keeping me in mind... <>> From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 7 15:28:55 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970907204118.0068c03c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: >If you need the Sun monitor let me know as a load of them mono and color >were trashed a week ago. Several places here are dumoing them along with >3/50's, 3/60's and 3/80's. >I picked up a few for my collection but have no software are HD for any of >them. I picked a Sun HD unit for 5.00 but got home to find the HD was gone >from inside. Keep computing. I'd take you up on it, but I suspect that shipping an 19" Sun monitor from MN to NJ would be hideously cost ineffective. I might be up for another 3/80 CPU, though. What I really need to find is one or two of the drive mounts for the 3/80. At work, they're waiting on the word from the government regarding some older PCs and Suns which were GFE for a previous contract. The hope is that they may just "abandon in place". If so, I may be able to find a monitor or possibly even an early Sparc 1. Keeping my fingers crossed... <<>> From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 16:25:10 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: still trying to send Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907212510.00677404@pop3.concentric.net> Received: from 5x86jk (ts002d02.min-mn.concentric.net [206.173.175.38]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.8.7) id RAA29672; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970907205659.0067c798@pop3.concentric.net> X-Sender: jrkeys@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 15:56:59 -0500 To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "John R. Keys Jr." Cc: Last finds@concentric.net Heatkit HTX-10 ni power supply was with it. anyone have info on this puppy? Pet 2001-8 series with manuals, have tested this one yet. HP 86 with ROM Drawer, 128k module, and 64k module. VIC music composer and Forth cartridges. Back to work now, keep computing From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 16:26:29 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907212629.0067a13c@pop3.concentric.net> Thanks for the info !! At 05:18 PM 9/7/97 -0300, you wrote: >>Heatkit HTX-10 ni power supply was with it. anyone have info on this puppy? > >If that's the one I think it is, it was desgined as a cheap dial-up terminal. >Everhting is in the KB, except for powersupply and composite monitor. I think >it also had a built-in 300 (1200?) baud modem. > ><<>> > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 7 16:45:49 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970907214549.00679da8@pop3.concentric.net> I may be able to get the drive mounts for you at the cost of shipping. I will check with Ken next week and see if the parts box was shipped off to be trashed yet. At 05:28 PM 9/7/97 -0300, you wrote: >>If you need the Sun monitor let me know as a load of them mono and color >>were trashed a week ago. Several places here are dumoing them along with >>3/50's, 3/60's and 3/80's. >>I picked up a few for my collection but have no software are HD for any of >>them. I picked a Sun HD unit for 5.00 but got home to find the HD was gone >>from inside. Keep computing. > >I'd take you up on it, but I suspect that shipping an 19" Sun monitor from >MN to NJ would be hideously cost ineffective. I might be up for another 3/80 >CPU, though. What I really need to find is one or two of the drive mounts for >the 3/80. > >At work, they're waiting on the word from the government regarding some >older PCs and Suns which were GFE for a previous contract. The hope is that >they may just "abandon in place". If so, I may be able to find a monitor >or possibly even an early Sparc 1. > >Keeping my fingers crossed... <<>> > > > > From bede0005 at tc.umn.edu Sun Sep 7 17:51:30 1997 From: bede0005 at tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970907203617.0068e40c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Sep 1997, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > There here the twin cities and no I have not seen a MAC portable there yet. > As for the Model 100's 6 of them went for 80 cent each about four weeks ago > and they had doc's, software and other items with them, I walked in 10 > minutes too late. I'll keep my eyes open for you. You say that they are in the Twin Cities. Do you mean the Twin Cities of Minneapolis & St. Paul? If so I'd love to know where. I have always found my "hunting" pretty hit or miss. Rob From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Sep 7 19:23:16 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:57 2005 Subject: IMSAI IMP48 Message-ID: <199709080023.AA08718@world.std.com> HI, I have an IMSAI IMP48, it's a single board computer made around late 77-78 using an 8048/8035 micro controller chip. The board is operational but I lack DOCs. Any DOCs on this would be helpful as it has relay and opto isolated I/O for control use. It also does audio cassette IO as well. I've used it for simple tasks but more detailed info would allow me to copy it and use the copy for the task and preserve the board. Allison From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sun Sep 7 20:41:05 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: A Few Items on eBay (Auctionweb) Message-ID: <341357B1.2C11@oboe.calpoly.edu> I'm back going through the pile after school ended and I managed to list a few more things on the auction. Apple IIc with Power Supply, External Floppy Bidding starts at: $5.00 Auction ends on: 09/09/97, 19:41:03 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160641 Macintosh 512K System (Photo) Bidding starts at: $10.00 Auction ends on: 09/12/97, 22:50:10 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=206500 Apple III Computer System! (Photo) Bidding starts at: $5.00 Auction ends on: 09/13/97 17:17:43 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=215133 Apple Imagewriter II Printer Current bid: $5.00 Auction ends on: 09/13/97 17:21:08 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=215200 Still have more to list soon including Apple IIplus, IIc monitors, Commodore 1702 monitor, Commodore drives, Mac 128k, Mac 400k ext. floppy drives, Apple RGB color monitor, Apple II color monitor, etc. Thanks, Greg From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Sep 7 20:43:30 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Web page update... Message-ID: <34135843.6866@goldrush.com> Just did a couple minor updates to the web page, added scans of pics of the Educator 64 and SuperPET (with the case opened so you can see what makes em tick), some commodore calculators, and a scan of the cover of Popular Science from Oct. 1977 which I believe is of one of the prototype PETs (non-steel, rounded casing). Oh, added a link to the Vintage computer faire too. ;) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Sep 8 03:30:21 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Trashed? Message-ID: <3413B79D.77E2@oboe.calpoly.edu> > Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 08:39:09 -0500 > From: "John R. Keys Jr." > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Re: FS: Mac Plus > 20 of them just got trashed, but if you want a couple I'll be stopping in > the shop later this week and if they have a new batch in I will pick you up > a couple. We can settle up after I get them. They also have alot of SE's, > 512's, and sometimes the 128's. There is also a thrift store here that > sells all computers for 80 cents including taxes. Everyone has started going > here and it's getting harder to catch any good machines there. If anyone > reading this is looking for HP stuff let me know as I passed on a complete > HP3000 for $10. That's amazing! 20 computers probably worth at least $25 each tossed in the dumpster? What a waste! $500! Mac plusses are really still good machines. I managed my business using Excel, Word and quicken on one until a couple years ago (until I sold the business). The local shop here parts them out for repairs. I did see our goodwill toss a Radio Shack Model 4P(??) and an Osborne the other day alond with a pile of PC Jr's and Commodore stuff. I almost grabbed them until I remembered I have a pile to get rid of and no time to play with them. Every Friday they clean (dumpster) the electronics section. From bwit at pobox.com Mon Sep 8 07:12:05 1997 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Trashed? In-Reply-To: <3413B79D.77E2@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970908071205.006988b4@swbell.net> > >I did see our goodwill toss a Radio Shack Model 4P(??) and an Osborne the other >day alond with a pile of PC Jr's and Commodore stuff. I almost grabbed them >until I remembered I have a pile to get rid of and no time to play with them. >Every Friday they clean (dumpster) the electronics section. Greg, I have been looking for a TRS-80 4P for a long time. If you see another one at a reasonable price would you mind picking it up for me? Thanks, Bob From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Sep 8 08:22:06 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Sick C-64c Message-ID: <199709081320.IAA18475@sunflower.com> I recently aquired a stack of c64's, these are the old brown type. Of (4), One works fine, 1 boots, and can run catridges, initializes the floppy on boot, but can never access it after boot, the other two have power but no video. Any ideas on these folks? From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Mon Sep 8 08:32:00 1997 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Trashed? Message-ID: <199709081324.GAA07435@mx5.u.washington.edu> > From: Greg Mast > > Subject: Re: FS: Mac Plus > > > 20 of them just got trashed, but if you want a couple I'll be stopping in > That's amazing! 20 computers probably worth at least $25 each tossed in the > dumpster? What a waste! $500! Mac plusses are really still good machines. I > managed my business using Excel, Word and quicken on one until a couple years > ago (until I sold the business). The local shop here parts them out for repairs. There are regular wanted ads in Austalian newsgroups from a guy who turns them into fishtanks. Apparently a whole bunch of people do this. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Mon Sep 8 04:38:36 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Sick C-64c In-Reply-To: <199709081320.IAA18475@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <199709081337.JAA08140@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:22:06 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Bill Girnius" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Sick C-64c > X-To: "Classic" > I recently aquired a stack of c64's, these are the old brown type. Of (4), > One works fine, 1 boots, and can run catridges, initializes the floppy on > boot, but can never access it after boot, the other two have power but no > video. Any ideas on these folks? Checkerboard or no display usually means memory is bad, replace all 64k ram chips. Oddball problems usually traced to the VIA ic's blown by unbuffered lines. Real easy to do to blow it if careless! Make sure you put the shield back on with those finger "pads" coated with bit of heatsink paste on them, they're like poorman's heatsinks! The video IC get brutally hot! Monitor the voltages for stablity and good idea to replace those big capacitors just in case. The floppy drives I think is belt driven type and needs bit of cleaning. I had a problem with one, inside that small can there's 2mhz crystal and one TTL chip, That TTL chip was baddie. Jason D. From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Sep 8 08:44:32 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Sick C-64c Message-ID: <199709081344.IAA18924@sunflower.com> The floppy drive incidently, works on other c64's just fine, and I have cleaned and calibrated it. ---------- > From: jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Sick C-64c > Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 4:38 AM > > > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:22:06 -0500 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > From: "Bill Girnius" > > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > Subject: Sick C-64c > > X-To: "Classic" > > > I recently aquired a stack of c64's, these are the old brown type. Of (4), > > One works fine, 1 boots, and can run catridges, initializes the floppy on > > boot, but can never access it after boot, the other two have power but no > > video. Any ideas on these folks? > > Checkerboard or no display usually means memory is bad, replace all > 64k ram chips. > > Oddball problems usually traced to the VIA ic's blown by unbuffered > lines. Real easy to do to blow it if careless! > > Make sure you put the shield back on with those finger "pads" coated > with bit of heatsink paste on them, they're like poorman's heatsinks! > The video IC get brutally hot! > > Monitor the voltages for stablity and good idea to replace those big > capacitors just in case. The floppy drives I think is belt driven > type and needs bit of cleaning. I had a problem with one, inside > that small can there's 2mhz crystal and one TTL chip, That TTL chip > was baddie. > > Jason D. From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Mon Sep 8 09:27:41 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help Message-ID: <01INE6AUD1IWBDYMVK@cc.usu.edu> Allison wrote: > The uVAX-II > offered 1meg of ram on card, FPU and a faster memory interface(PMI) > along with denser 1mb, 2mb, and 4mb (and later 8/16mb) cards. This made > a 5mb microvax-II possible in two cards instead of 7 using uVAX-I! AFAIK the MicroVAX I can't do 5MB no matter how many cards you have. It's a pure QBus machine; all memory lives on the QBus and there is no scatter/gather map to allow it to get to more memory than the QBus can address, which is 4MB. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From william at ans.net Mon Sep 8 09:36:47 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: New finds and info needed In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970906232755.006782d8@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > 1. IBM Powerstation 320 with a 19' monitor 6091-19 with cable (3 BNC), > anyone having some info this unit I could use it. Can't get it to show > anything on the monitor. All lights are on. What does the numeric display on the box do? It should spew out lots of different numbers (POST (Power On Self Test) and results - a blinking 888 is really BAD, getting stuck on other numbers can also be bad). I have the service manual for the beasts, and it describes all of the codes. Let me know what your machine does. > 2. IBM Powerstation 220 with 17" monitor this unit is locked in service mode > and I did not get a key. Any info this one would be great. Without a key you are in trouble. They are special keys that are basically unique to the machine (unlike the famous DEC key). At least in service mode, you should be able to get the cover off - if it were in "secure" or "normal", the cover would also be locked. > 6. About 10 very large boxes full of IBM PS/2's and other parts. I have > very busy weekend with these boxes. If there are MCA cards in there, check to see if any are for the RS/6000s - they are different, but look fairly similar to the PS/2 variety. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Sep 8 10:40:47 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help In-Reply-To: <01INE6AUD1IWBDYMVK@cc.usu.edu> from "Roger Ivie" at Sep 8, 97 08:27:41 am Message-ID: <9709081440.AA24856@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 849 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970908/539e7412/attachment.ksh From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 8 10:08:33 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Boxed Commodore Plus/4 Message-ID: I know someone locally who's trying to sell a complete boxed Commodore Plus/4 for $25. If anyone's interested I'll hook you up with him. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Mon Sep 8 10:20:51 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Burroughs Computers In-Reply-To: <34103DEA.4C98@hf.intel.com> Message-ID: <199709081520.AA21459@interlock.ans.net> > Burroughs machines are rare, especially one this old. I am not sure that this thing is very old. From searching around a bit (there is not much info out there, unfortunately, so my guess may be quite wrong), it seems the thing dates from the 1970s. It is still rare and needs saving. Where is the machine located? William Donzelli william@ans.net From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 8 11:48:23 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Pertec Power Supply References: Message-ID: <34142C57.7BB15509@rain.org> In the stuff I have been getting, there is a Pertec power supply. I didn't see a model number on it but it is large and heavy, probably about 19" x 24" x 6" and 75 - 100 lbs. It did have some test data with it and it shows an input of 103 - 127 VAC at 50 Hz and and outputs of +5VDC, +24 VDC, +12 VDC, -26 VDC, and +24VDC; not sure of the maximum output current for each voltage. While I haven't found the model number, the serial number is 410516. If anyone wants it, let me know and it is yours for shipping costs. Thanks. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Sep 8 12:03:40 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206147FA7@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Just when I think you can't find any genuinely old computer stuff in thrift stores anymore, I come across something that changes my mind. This weekend it was a beautiful, mint condition Heath H88. Don Maslin, keeper of the CP/M disk archives, has CP/M for the Heath H89, but doesn't list the H88. Does anyone know what the difference is between an H88 and H89? Externally, they look identical except for the badging. Are they software compatible? thanks Kai From djenner at halcyon.com Mon Sep 8 12:32:54 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206147FA7@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <341436C6.ED5AC23@halcyon.com> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Does anyone know what the difference is between > an H88 and H89? Externally, they look identical except for the badging. > Are they software compatible? The H88 was a cassette-based Z-80 system. I got one by upgrading an H-19 terminal. (I believe you could also buy it as a system.) When you upgraded, you replaced the H-19 "badge" with an H-88 "badge". You could also upgrade the H-88 to an H-89 by adding a hard disk controller and floppy disk. When you upgraded, you replaced the H-88 "badge" with an H-89 "badge". So, it's quite possible that not only do they look identical externally, they look identical internally. If what you saw DOESN'T have a floppy disk, then maybe it is the cassette-based system. Look inside. I have the cassette software, if you are masochistic enough to want a copy of it. You might be able to find a hard disk controller and make it into an H-89, if you like. It shouldn't be too hard to find a floppy drive that works, just plug in a DEC RX50 dual floppy! My H-89 has in fact the original prototype (DAM Drive) of the dual floppy, made by T and E Engineering. DEC later bought them out for the Rainbow/uPDP/uVAX, etc. If you need an RX50 drive, I can get you one. Dave From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Sep 8 12:50:40 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help Message-ID: <199709081750.AA12610@world.std.com> The uVAX-II <> offered 1meg of ram on card, FPU and a faster memory interface(PMI) <> along with denser 1mb, 2mb, and 4mb (and later 8/16mb) cards. This made <> a 5mb microvax-II possible in two cards instead of 7 using uVAX-I! < <341436C6.ED5AC23@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <34143B49.37D6FC52@halcyon.com> Opps! Read "floppy disk controller" for "hard disk controller" in the original reply. David C. Jenner wrote: > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > Does anyone know what the difference is between > > an H88 and H89? Externally, they look identical except for the badging. > > Are they software compatible? > > The H88 was a cassette-based Z-80 system. I got one by upgrading an > H-19 terminal. (I believe you could also buy it as a system.) When you > upgraded, you replaced the H-19 "badge" with an H-88 "badge". > > You could also upgrade the H-88 to an H-89 by adding a hard disk > controller and floppy disk. When you upgraded, you replaced the H-88 > "badge" with an H-89 "badge". From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Mon Sep 8 13:00:44 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? In-Reply-To: <341436C6.ED5AC23@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Sep 8, 97 10:32:54 am Message-ID: <199709081800.OAA24519@hiway1.exit109.com> > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > Does anyone know what the difference is between > > an H88 and H89? Externally, they look identical except for the badging. > > Are they software compatible? > > The H88 was a cassette-based Z-80 system. I got one by upgrading an > H-19 terminal. (I believe you could also buy it as a system.) When you > upgraded, you replaced the H-19 "badge" with an H-88 "badge". > > You could also upgrade the H-88 to an H-89 by adding a hard disk > controller and floppy disk. When you upgraded, you replaced the H-88 > "badge" with an H-89 "badge". Actually, a hard disk (H-67) was not standard for an H-89, only floppies on an H-17 (hard sector) controller. There are, IIRC, three changes that go into making an H-88 into an H-89: 1. New BIOS 2. Replacement of 1 or 2 PALs 3. H-17 and/or H-67 disk controller. The cassette is not available in an H-89. The H-67 Winchester controller was a SASI HD and 8" floppy controller. There was also an H/Z-90. This was, basically, the same machine with further revised firmware and an H-37 (soft sector) controller. If memory serves, you can have any *two* of the disk controllers, but not all three. My personal machine has an H-17 and an H-37. One other possibility is that you may have a thied-party disk controller like the Magnolia. This will require a HW-specific version of CP/M. <<>> From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Sep 8 13:01:46 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206153F86@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> This one has a built in Percom floppy (the kind with the big door), so it must be an H89. It says H88 on the back, but if an H89 is just an H88 with the floppy controller + drive, then this one has been upgraded to an H89. Cool, I'll order the H89 CP/M from Don. The front badge just says "Heathkit Computer". thanks Kai > ---------- > From: David C. Jenner[SMTP:djenner@halcyon.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, September 08, 1997 10:32 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > Does anyone know what the difference is between > > an H88 and H89? Externally, they look identical except for the > badging. > > Are they software compatible? > > The H88 was a cassette-based Z-80 system. I got one by upgrading an > H-19 terminal. (I believe you could also buy it as a system.) When > you > upgraded, you replaced the H-19 "badge" with an H-88 "badge". > > You could also upgrade the H-88 to an H-89 by adding a hard disk > controller and floppy disk. When you upgraded, you replaced the H-88 > "badge" with an H-89 "badge". > > So, it's quite possible that not only do they look identical > externally, > they look identical internally. If what you saw DOESN'T have a floppy > disk, then maybe it is the cassette-based system. Look inside. I > have > the cassette software, if you are masochistic enough to want a copy of > it. > > You might be able to find a hard disk controller and make it into an > H-89, if you like. It shouldn't be too hard to find a floppy drive > that > works, just plug in a DEC RX50 dual floppy! My H-89 has in fact the > original prototype (DAM Drive) of the dual floppy, made by T and E > Engineering. DEC later bought them out for the Rainbow/uPDP/uVAX, > etc. > If you need an RX50 drive, I can get you one. > > Dave > From manney at nwohio.com Mon Sep 8 13:59:58 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <199709081913.MAA11269@mx5.u.washington.edu> Wayull...I don't deal im Macs, so I don't know prices. I'm just passing along what he wants. What's it worth? $300!? I know its not april fool's day. I must have got a deal of the century when I got a mac ][cx and 3.5 drive for $25... david In a message dated 97-09-06 14:26:50 EDT, you write: << A friend (yes, Virginia, I do have a friend) has a Mac plus for sale. 80 MB HDD (I think)...software includes Claris Works and some other stuff. He wants $300 US, but will probably be willing to negotiate. manney@nwohio.com >> From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Mon Sep 8 14:16:22 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? Message-ID: <01INEGF51UF6BEZ7RK@cc.usu.edu> > Opps! Read "floppy disk controller" for "hard disk controller" in the > original reply. Silly me; I assumed you meant "hard sectored disk controller". In this case, a synchronous serial chip with its SYNC input attached to the drive's Index pin. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From djenner at halcyon.com Mon Sep 8 15:47:02 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? References: <01INEGF51UF6BEZ7RK@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <34146446.B8D478A8@halcyon.com> Roger Ivie wrote: > > > Opps! Read "floppy disk controller" for "hard disk controller" in the > > original reply. > > Silly me; I assumed you meant "hard sectored disk controller". In this > case, a synchronous serial chip with its SYNC input attached to the drive's > Index pin. > > Roger Ivie > ivie@cc.usu.edu I guess that's probably the reason for the unconscious slip! Nothing like a little ambiguity to cover all bases! Dave From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 8 17:56:08 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: New finds and info needed Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970908225608.006849f8@pop3.concentric.net> I get a 554 code ?? Thanks loads for the info and I hope this code is not a bad one. At 10:36 AM 9/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >> 1. IBM Powerstation 320 with a 19' monitor 6091-19 with cable (3 BNC), >> anyone having some info this unit I could use it. Can't get it to show >> anything on the monitor. All lights are on. > >What does the numeric display on the box do? It should spew out lots of >different numbers (POST (Power On Self Test) and results - a blinking 888 >is really BAD, getting stuck on other numbers can also be bad). I have the >service manual for the beasts, and it describes all of the codes. Let me >know what your machine does. > >> 2. IBM Powerstation 220 with 17" monitor this unit is locked in service mode >> and I did not get a key. Any info this one would be great. > >Without a key you are in trouble. They are special keys that are basically >unique to the machine (unlike the famous DEC key). At least in service >mode, you should be able to get the cover off - if it were in "secure" or >"normal", the cover would also be locked. > >> 6. About 10 very large boxes full of IBM PS/2's and other parts. I have >> very busy weekend with these boxes. > >If there are MCA cards in there, check to see if any are for the RS/6000s >- they are different, but look fairly similar to the PS/2 variety. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Sep 8 19:14:03 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Data General surplus In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970908225608.006849f8@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Sep 8, 97 05:56:08 pm Message-ID: <9709082314.AA07215@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1292 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970908/a88cbfb3/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 8 18:10:20 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Difference between Heath H88 and H89? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970908231020.00682fd4@pop3.concentric.net> I just got some service manuals for the old Zenith system today and will send you some info as soon as I read them. At 10:03 AM 9/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >Just when I think you can't find any genuinely old computer stuff in >thrift stores anymore, I come across something that changes my mind. > >This weekend it was a beautiful, mint condition Heath H88. Don Maslin, >keeper of the CP/M disk archives, has CP/M for the Heath H89, but >doesn't list the H88. Does anyone know what the difference is between >an H88 and H89? Externally, they look identical except for the badging. >Are they software compatible? > >thanks > >Kai > > > From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 8 19:23:26 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: dumb terminals for cheap (or free?) Message-ID: I know a guy who has a few old dumb terminals which are brand new in the box (with the original packaging tape on them) circa 1982 or thereabouts. I bought a couple from him at a weekend swap meet for $5 a piece. He still has about 4 or 5 more. He also has a bunch of new in box 3to1 or 2to1 switchboxes, as well as a whole mess of brand new shielded serial cables, some in lengths of 20' and perhaps 50'. All this will go to the dump unless someone wants them. He's willing to ship and will take very little for them. So if anyone wants a brand new dumb terminal or some cables, let me know and I'll pass you along his number (I don't have it on me right now). He's local to me and I could arrange to ship. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 8 20:56:35 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: dumb terminals for cheap (or free?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > I know a guy who has a few old dumb terminals which are brand new in the > box (with the original packaging tape on them) circa 1982 or > thereabouts. I bought a couple from him at a weekend swap meet for $5 a > piece. He still has about 4 or 5 more. He also has a bunch of new in > box 3to1 or 2to1 switchboxes, as well as a whole mess of brand new > shielded serial cables, some in lengths of 20' and perhaps 50'. All this > will go to the dump unless someone wants them. He's willing to ship and > will take very little for them. So if anyone wants a brand new dumb > terminal or some cables, let me know and I'll pass you along his number > (I don't have it on me right now). He's local to me and I could arrange > to ship. I forgot to mention these are C.Itoh and AT&T terminals with the manuals. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From groberts at mitre.org Tue Sep 9 06:00:23 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Someone has a Z100 for sale ... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970909070023.00842900@mail90> this was posted on comp.sys.zenith.z100. $100 seems high to me given the condition of this machines and the fact that it's a bare bones configuration - i recently got one of these plus tons of software for free. these puppies are heavy too so watch the shipping costs. on the plus side: this is a very nice CP/M machine. S-100 bus; dual CPUs (8085 and 8088) and much of the CP/M BIOS actually executes on the 8088 CPU! please reply to the original poster (not me). tx. - glenn From: "John Pfuntner" 8/24/97 12:21 Subject: z-100 for sale (circa 1984)... cheap? I'm offering the following dinosaur for sale: Zenith Z-100 computer (bought as a student at Clarkson College in 1984): 256K RAM (I will also throw in the original 192K chips) Monochrome display 2 5-1/4" "Half-height" Floppy Drives Video memory for shades of grey *NO* hard drive! Software for above: DOS, Z-BASIC, Multiplan, Pascal/Fortran Compilers, Turbo Pascal A few other disks with games and utilities. Condition: good, a couple of keys don't work too well. Computer has not been used in the past 6 years. Price: I'm looking for $100 *plus* shipping but will consider any offer. I want to get rid of it by December or else it will probably end up in the computer graveyard. For more info or bids, contact: John Pfuntner, pfuntner@pobox.com. +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From rcini at classic.msn.com Tue Sep 9 08:10:58 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 1997 07:40:47, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>Part of the confusion may have arisen because the Richard (the owner of >>the Microvax I, if I follow the attributions correctly) didn't >>post the full M-numbers of all the cards. It's possible that he >>has a 4 MB memory card that is only half-populated; the alphabetic >>suffix to the M-number determines how it was populated at the factory. I thought it odd that the M-number for the memory card is listed in some info that I have as "1mb MOS memory card", but Ultrixboot reports 4mb of RAM. I don't recall seeing a letter suffix, but frankly, I wouldn't have known to look -- this is my first DEC system, so I'm not familiar with their numbering conventions. I also haven't yet pulled the cards from the backplane in order to inspect them. My time has been spent rebuilding the power cable and trying to get the external RD52 to work. From "memory", here's the backplane configuration: Slot TOP BOTTOM function 8 open open 7 {M7954?} open buss extender 6 M8639 {same} RQDX1 disk controller 5 M7502 {M7948??} Ethernet / {slot filled} 4 M3104 {same} serial EIA mux-8 3 M7551 {same} memory 2 M7135 {same} processor 1 1 M7136 {same} processor 2 I can't remember what's in the remainder of slot 5, but since the unit has floppies, the M7948 is a guess. I'll take a better inventory tonight. More to come... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Tue Sep 9 09:58:36 1997 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Data General surplus In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 08 Sep 1997 16:14:03 -0800." <9709082314.AA07215@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <199709091458.JAA26128@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> In message <9709082314.AA07215@alph02.triumf.ca>, shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca write s: >Well, after much effort, about 6000 pounds of DG stuff has been >rescued from the old cyclotron control system here at work. (Basically, >the contents of the list I posted a couple months back, plus several >hundred binders, tapes, and disk packs. Also lots of various spare >Nova/Eclipse boards, terminators, and cables. Heck, I bet there's >several hundred pounds of cables by themselves... and I know for a >fact that the rack slides weigh around 600 pounds in total!) [clip] >up to Vancouver for a worthy cause? (Some machines are already slated >to make a trip to the East Coast - if you're interested in becoming >part of this shipping arrangement, let me know ASAP.) Tim, Drool, drool... Do you have that list you posted still handy; I fear I didn't keep it? More directly, I picked up a Nova 2 some years back, but I have no peripherials and prcious little documentation. I would definitely be interested in boards and any docs for a Nova 2 that are in there. Nice find, Brian L. Stuart stuartb@acm.org http://www.mathcs.rhodes.edu/~stuart/ From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 9 10:36:52 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: dumb terminals Message-ID: A couple people (Richard Cini, William Hayes) were interested in the terminals and requested more information. Here's some blurbs from the manuals: First the CIT-101e Video Terminal by CIE Terminals (a C.Itoh electronics company): The CIT-101e is directly interchangeable with the Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) VT100 Video Terminal. The CIT-101e can operate in one of two modes, ANSI or VT52. In ANSI mode the CIT-101e is compatible with American National Standards Institute (ANSI) programming standards. In the VT52 mode the CIT-101e is software compatible with DEC VT52 terminals. Standard features include a full and half duplex communication channel, RS-232-C or 20 mA current loop communication interface, an auxiliary full duplex port, an alternate character set, and temporary storage of up to three display pages. Next, the AT&T Information Systems DataSpeed 4425 Display Terminal: Hmmm, well there's no real good descriptive blurb to type up like the CIE manual had. This terminal can be configured in the setup to do VT52 escape sequences. I don't think it has a current loop interface as I don't see any mention of one. It does have an "integral modem", which is actually an external box. It goes up to 1200 baud. You can dial the modem right from the terminal by hitting the F1 key. Both these terminals can do 132 columns. I don't know if that excites anyone but I thought I'd mention it. I'll tell the guy to hold off on dumping them until you folks have made up your minds. Again, there's also a ton of switchboxes, cables and gender changers. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 9 11:59:44 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: dumb terminals In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 9, 97 08:36:52 am Message-ID: <9709091559.AA30704@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1577 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970909/990295de/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 9 12:09:14 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX help In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 9, 97 01:10:58 pm Message-ID: <9709091609.AA28392@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2312 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970909/8fede5c7/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 9 12:17:12 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Data General surplus In-Reply-To: <199709091458.JAA26128@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> from "Brian L. Stuart" at Sep 9, 97 09:58:36 am Message-ID: <9709091617.AA31833@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970909/a6a26e1d/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Sep 9 16:56:14 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Milwaukee 11/780's In-Reply-To: <9709091617.AA31833@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Sep 9, 97 09:17:12 am Message-ID: <9709092056.AA32304@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970909/aca46082/attachment.ksh From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Sep 9 15:58:50 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: dumb terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Next, the AT&T Information Systems DataSpeed 4425 Display Terminal: > >Hmmm, well there's no real good descriptive blurb to type up like the CIE >manual had. This terminal can be configured in the setup to do VT52 >escape sequences. I don't think it has a current loop interface as I >don't see any mention of one. It does have an "integral modem", which is >actually an external box. It goes up to 1200 baud. You can dial the >modem right from the terminal by hitting the F1 key. It's your basic ANSI terminal. Orange screen, with a slightly annoying key click. (Guess what I have as the console of my 3B2/310? :-) <<>> From ccm at sentex.net Tue Sep 9 20:04:34 1997 From: ccm at sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: A REALLY old & interesting system offer. Message-ID: <199709100104.VAA19787@granite.sentex.net> Forwarded from the COMMPUTERSEUM: From: mib@juno.com (Morton I. Bernstein) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 02:06:19 EDT Do you know anyone who wants an early serial number Britton-Lee Data Base machine. The first of the kind. It can be had for the cost of transporting it from Los Angels to wherever. Mort Bernstein From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 10 02:26:18 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: A REALLY old & interesting system offer. References: <199709100104.VAA19787@granite.sentex.net> Message-ID: <34164B99.536E44AC@rain.org> COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf wrote: > Forwarded from the COMMPUTERSEUM: > > From: mib@juno.com (Morton I. Bernstein) > Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 02:06:19 EDT > > Do you know anyone who wants an early serial number Britton-Lee Data Base > machine. The first of the kind. It can be had for the cost of > transporting it from Los Angels to wherever. Anyone know what this machine is and what size it is? There are several people in and near the LA area on the listserver. If nobody else wants to deal with it, I'll see what I can do assuming it doesn't require a moving van to move it. From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Sep 10 07:23:50 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX Message-ID: Tim: >>According to the "Edited Option/Module List" that I have, there are >>no fewer than 21 variations of the M7551, ranging from 1 to 4 >>MBytes of memory. Generally, the -A suffix indicates 1 Mbytes, >>the -B indicates 2 Mbytes, and the -C indicates 4 Mbytes. The >>next letter in the suffix indicates the source of the DRAM chips. At least I'm not crazy (in spite of what people may say!) about the RAM size. My M7551 carries the "CF" suffix. Is there a way that I could get a copy of your module list?? The one that I have from the VAX forum on CompuServe seems to leave out key information. It would be helpful to me for when I go shopping at Temple U. in October. Here's the revised configuration (I actually coppied the numbers down this time). Slot TOP BOTTOM function 8 open open 7 M7512 open buss extender 6 M8639-YA {same} RQDX1 disk controller 5 M9047 M7504 continuity / Ethernet 4 M3104 {same} serial EIA mux-8 3 M7551-CF {same} memory 2 M7135 {same} processor 1 1 M7136 {same} processor 2 Slot 1 is the first slot on the right facing the bulkhead. The buss extender is used to connect to an external RD52 hard drive. Thanks again. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Sep 10 12:04:42 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 10, 97 12:23:50 pm Message-ID: <9709101604.AA29885@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 958 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970910/34ff76bc/attachment.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Sep 10 14:16:26 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: VAX RESCUE NEEDED: Ilinois area Message-ID: <3416f1a3.183541939@mail.boeing.com> Heads up! Got an 11/780 that needs rescue in Ilinois. Contact the fellow directly for details. -=-=- -=-=- Xref: xyzzy comp.sys.dec:14845 From: eric@oxygen.aps.anl.gov (Eric Lindert) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: VAX 11/780 Free to good home Date: 9 Sep 1997 21:28:06 GMT Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago Illinois Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <5v4f16$81i@milo.mcs.anl.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: oxygen48.aps1.anl.gov Path: xyzzy!uunet!in2.uu.net!198.174.169.7!winternet.com!news.myna.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter1!news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!milo.mcs.anl.gov!oxygen!eric VAX 11/780 free to good home: Have VAX 11/780 with 3 FUJITSU hard drives, 9 track tape transport, 2 consoles, all documentation, software, cards, racks, etc. Have moved, and do not have room any longer. System is in Shorewood, WI (near University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee). Must sacrifice soon. Please respond directly, not to newsgroup, as I don't have time to address each. Eric Lindert eric@aps.anl.gov home: (630)493-1837 wk : (630)252-9424 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SSG Computing Support (253) 773-8576 Bldg. 18-04.2, Col. G1 Boeing ISDS, Kent Space Ctr. b.lane@pss.boeing.com "...No matter how hard we may try, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Sep 10 14:47:49 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: VAX RESCUE NEEDED: Ilinois area Message-ID: <199709101947.OAA16628@sunflower.com> Who is the illinois contact? ---------- > From: kyrrin2@wizards.net > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: VAX RESCUE NEEDED: Ilinois area > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 2:16 PM > > Heads up! Got an 11/780 that needs rescue in Ilinois. Contact the > fellow directly for details. > > -=-=- -=-=- > > Xref: xyzzy comp.sys.dec:14845 > From: eric@oxygen.aps.anl.gov (Eric Lindert) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec > Subject: VAX 11/780 Free to good home > Date: 9 Sep 1997 21:28:06 GMT > Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago Illinois > Lines: 14 > Distribution: world > Message-ID: <5v4f16$81i@milo.mcs.anl.gov> > NNTP-Posting-Host: oxygen48.aps1.anl.gov > Path: > xyzzy!uunet!in2.uu.net!198.174.169.7!winternet.com!news.myna.com!www.nntp.pr imenet.com!globalcenter1!news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.n et!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!milo.mcs.anl.gov!oxygen!eric > > VAX 11/780 free to good home: > > Have VAX 11/780 with 3 FUJITSU hard drives, 9 track tape transport, > 2 consoles, all documentation, software, cards, racks, etc. > Have moved, and do not have room any longer. System is in Shorewood, > WI (near University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee). Must sacrifice soon. > Please respond directly, not to newsgroup, as I don't have time to > address each. > Eric Lindert > eric@aps.anl.gov > home: (630)493-1837 > wk : (630)252-9424 > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, SSG Computing Support > (253) 773-8576 Bldg. 18-04.2, Col. G1 > Boeing ISDS, Kent Space Ctr. > b.lane@pss.boeing.com > "...No matter how hard we may try, our science can only describe an > object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot, > in any way, define any of them..." From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Sep 10 15:00:06 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: VAX RESCUE NEEDED: Ilinois area In-Reply-To: <3416f1a3.183541939@mail.boeing.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 kyrrin2@wizards.net wrote: > Heads up! Got an 11/780 that needs rescue in Ilinois. Contact the > fellow directly for details. As an apartment dweller, an 11/780 is out of my league; however, I may be able to assist in the rescue if anyone else has space available and just needs help, especially if there are "extra" SMD drives involved. I'm in Chicago, as is the contact. The machine is near Milwaukee. Anyone? -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Sep 10 15:12:54 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: VAX RESCUE NEEDED: Ilinois area Message-ID: <199709102011.PAA17374@sunflower.com> In im Kansas, and have plenty of space, but no means by which to transport. ---------- > From: Scott Ware > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: VAX RESCUE NEEDED: Ilinois area > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 3:00 PM > > On Wed, 10 Sep 1997 kyrrin2@wizards.net wrote: > > > Heads up! Got an 11/780 that needs rescue in Ilinois. Contact the > > fellow directly for details. > > As an apartment dweller, an 11/780 is out of my league; however, I may be > able to assist in the rescue if anyone else has space available and just > needs help, especially if there are "extra" SMD drives involved. > > I'm in Chicago, as is the contact. The machine is near Milwaukee. > > Anyone? > > -- > Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Sep 10 19:14:10 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Help with EPROM programmer Message-ID: Hello, all: I got my hands on a PC-based EPROM programmer S/DRAM tester IC tester. There is an ISA add-in card and an external box with ZIF sockets. The only thing that I am missing (doh!) is the software diskette. The board is manufactured by Yih-Lung (Hong Kong), model# YL-23. It has two microcontrollers, both are Motorola 6821. I know that this is a loooong shot, but can anyone point me in any direction to find a replacement disk. Thanks! +============================================+ | Rich Cini/WUGNET | | MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking, | Charter ClubWin! Member (6) and a | collector of classic computers +============================================+ From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Sep 11 00:43:20 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: HP 2100A available from Ann Arbor MI Message-ID: <341784F8.4D4DCEBB@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> At risk of repeating someone elses post (I receive the digest form of the list): Recently seen on the net: > An HP 2100A minicomputer will become available soon, in Ann Arbor, MI. > This is a machine I once worked on, but I can't take it (no space) so > if anyone wants an old workhorse of a machine with some significant > position in history, please take it. > The thing is a typical late 1960's or early 1970's rack mounted > minicomputer; I'm sure it can be safely de-racked. It can probably > be shipped UPS, but it would be at the upper end of the UPS size and > weight range, so it may have to go motor freight. > There may be a DEC RX01 and an RK05 drive attached to it (I'm not > sure which of the HP machines at Michigan had what peripherals, but > the disk drives they used were from DEC). These can be deracked and > shipped separately, but they're commodity parts, in a relative sense, > while the HP2100 is not a commonplace machine. > Doug Jones > jones@cs.uiowa.edu I would love this machine but shipping to Europe is out of the question :-( Don't let this one die a horrible death. Regards, Hans From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Sep 11 07:43:31 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX modules Message-ID: On Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:04:42, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>My module list is about 3000 pages and fills 6 binders. Not exactly >>convenient to carry around, but it is (fairly) comprehensive. Can you e-mail it to me?? I didn't realize that it was that lengthy. Is is broken-down in any way (like by model), or is it a sequential list from "M0000" to "M9999"? I'd be interested in the sections dealing with the uVAX-I, uVAX-II, and the PDP-11/34. Thanks again. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Thu Sep 11 07:56:53 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: Off Topic but Not In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, this is kind of a weird question for this group and it's kinda off topic but it occured to me that someone here would be more likely to be able to help me out than probably anyone else. One of the freebies I just received is a Duplo DP-3150 Digital Duplicator. It's like a photocopier but MUCH faster and is kind of like a cross between a small offset press in terms of speed and a photocopier in terms of technology except it uses an ink pack instead of toner. If I could get this guy fired up...and he does seem to light up properly and kick paper through but is missing the ink pack and so on...I could send out "Don't Throw Away that Computer" type fliers and so on. Does anyone work in an industry or a company where I could get a copy of the operation/etc manual for this machine? Does anyone have a buddy who might have spare supplies for this machine and/or manuals? I'll be happy to compensate. Sorry for it being off-topic but I figured someone here would be more likely to help me than in most other places. I'm also making inquiries at local copy machine sales places but companies like that tend to be unfriendly if you didn't buy the machine there or have a service contract etc. And if you tell them it was given to you free, they're not helpful at all. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime http://www.retrocomputing.com From dlw at neosoft.com Thu Sep 11 09:26:52 1997 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:58 2005 Subject: HP 2100A available from Ann Arbor MI Message-ID: <199709111426.JAA25579@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> I don't think it will "die a horrible death." I emailed them yesterday when I first saw the newsgroup post and have heard back. I'll have to have it shipped but I figure it's the price I'll just have to pay. :-) I've been looking for one of these for years. ---------- > From: Hans Pufal > Date: Thursday, September 11, 1997 12:43 AM > > At risk of repeating someone elses post (I receive the digest form of > the list): > > Recently seen on the net: > > > An HP 2100A minicomputer will become available soon, in Ann Arbor, MI. > Don't let this one die a horrible death. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 11 17:09:30 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Passes References: Message-ID: <34186C1A.96AA48B6@rain.org> Just perusing the ebay auction web and just found these passes! http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290671 I talked with a friend of mine and we are heading up that way. Let me know who else is going to the Festival and maybe we can find a way to put some faces with names! Anyone up for a dinner get together Saturday night? I am going to take some of my extra machines, documentation, etc. up and hopefully trade them for some machines I don't have (I know Sam!) and thus increase the variety in my collection. With any luck, I may also *decrease* the volume :). From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Sep 11 17:27:16 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Passes In-Reply-To: <34186C1A.96AA48B6@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: > I talked with a friend of mine and we are heading up that way. Let me know > who else is going to the Festival and maybe we can find a way to put some > faces with names! Anyone up for a dinner get together Saturday night? > Where is it? From wpe at interserv.com Thu Sep 11 18:17:01 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Classic computer toy? Mattel Intellivision, anyone want? Message-ID: <34187BEC.C4443567@interserv.com> Hello, Not sure this is the proper place for this, and I apologize if it isn't, but I have a Mattel Intellivision setup (left for us by a long ago former tenant of a property we used to own) with a bunch of cartridges. I have no clue as to whether the thing works, as it's been in a box in my basement for a good five years (and, who knows how long in the basement of the previous owner), but, if someone wants to "give it a home", please let me know. Located in Sudbury, Mass. USA. Will From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Thu Sep 11 19:46:16 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Classic computer toy? Mattel Intellivision, anyone want? Message-ID: <01INJ0Y0WPTE8Y95ZA@AC.GRIN.EDU> Ooooh, I've been looking for an Intellivision. I'm happy to pay shipping, etc. to get it out to Iowa, which is where I am. Let me know, -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Sep 11 19:55:18 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Classic computer toy? Mattel Intellivision, anyone want? Message-ID: Just out of curiosity, does this one have the computer keyboard and stuff? I found one the other day with the keyboard (and I am trying to get it), but I have no idea how common they were. Adam. From wpe at interserv.com Thu Sep 11 20:03:45 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Intellivision stuff.. Message-ID: <341894F0.77B324B2@interserv.com> Hi Everyone, Allison was the first respondant, so, gets first option. If then, not claimed, then I will re-contact those of you who also have expressed interest. Thanks! Will Please take note of the following, when attempting to reply to this message.... -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Sep 11 20:49:09 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Follow-up PS320 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970912014909.00684e74@pop3.concentric.net> Still waiting to hear what the code numbers 554 mean that I get on the Powerstation 320 from IBM ?? As Isaid before it boots up to this number but I get no video on the monitor it's a IBM 6091-19 that came with the 320. Would like to get some documentation on this machine if anyone would like trade or sell. From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Sep 11 21:08:11 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Atari 400 power supply Message-ID: I finally managed to get one of these yesterday, including a number of carts and a cassette drive, but there was no official power supply with it. Instead I found a 9 volt DC supply mixed in the cables in the shop, but I am not entirly certain if it is for this computer. It is likely, but I don't feel like taking any risks. The Atari FAQ says that it took a 9v AC supply in the US, but the plug on this one looks like a DC plug, and the comments on the European version seemed to suggest that it used a DC supply. Does anyone know what would be appropriate to use in Australia? Thanks heaps, Adam. From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Thu Sep 11 21:41:16 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: IBM 1620 Card Decks In-Reply-To: <340B2B64.1EFD5F8F@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970911194116.00762344@ferrari.sfu.ca> Hi Marvin: Any word on those boxes of "IBM 1620" cards? Kevin At 01:53 PM 97/09/01 -0700, you wrote: >While picking up most of the Burroughs manuals I posted about earlier, I had >mentioned to the woman that I was also looking for punched cards. Today she >found some "IBM" cards with "Leo Computers, LTD" on them! I have probably >about 30 of them now and they will make another neat addition to the >collection! > >Again, I picked up most of the Burroughs manuals including the ones marked >"Company Confidential". She talked with a friend of hers who worked there >who said it was okay to take them. Apparently they were marked that way only >for competitive reasons and those reasons no longer apply :)! > >Her friend who wanted to look at the IBM stuff will be here Thursday and she >will let me know then about the stuff. Most likely it will all be >available. When I get it, I'll post a list of what is there and it will be >available for the cost of shipping. > > > > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 11 22:51:01 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Passes References: Message-ID: <3418BC24.8C12DCD3@rain.org> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > On Thu, 11 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > I talked with a friend of mine and we are heading up that way. Let me > know > > who else is going to the Festival and maybe we can find a way to put > some > > faces with names! Anyone up for a dinner get together Saturday night? > > > > Where is it? I am totally unfamilar with the area but I am sure we can find a place to eat. My preference would be someplace reasonable quiet so conversation is possible :). From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 11 23:17:37 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics References: <3418BC24.8C12DCD3@rain.org> Message-ID: <3418C261.76400092@rain.org> A friend of mine and I both have TRS Model 100s with problems and I am looking for schematics to the unit. If anyone has them for sale, cost of copies, scanned in, etc., I would much appreciate hearing about it. Thanks! From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 12 01:00:37 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics In-Reply-To: <3418C261.76400092@rain.org> References: Message-ID: >A friend of mine and I both have TRS Model 100s with problems and I am >looking for schematics to the unit. If anyone has them for sale, cost of >copies, scanned in, etc., I would much appreciate hearing about it. Thanks! Have you tried Radio Shack? I wouldn't be surprised if you can get service manuals from them for it. They are actually a so-so source for old computer supplies, such as batteries for Mac Pluses. Or if you have to much money, Double Density floppies. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Fri Sep 12 02:47:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics References: Message-ID: <3418F39B.CBA1100@rain.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: > >A friend of mine and I both have TRS Model 100s with problems and I am > >looking for schematics to the unit. If anyone has them for sale, cost of > > >copies, scanned in, etc., I would much appreciate hearing about it. > Thanks! > > Have you tried Radio Shack? I wouldn't be surprised if you can get > service Actually, I didn't think about Radio Shack and thanks MUCH for the suggestion. After I read your note, a fellow ham was on the radio who just happens to work at Radio Shack. So of course, I called him on the air and told him what I was after. Turns out *he* also owns a Model 100 along with the Service Manual and is willing to loan it to me. Thanks again for the suggestion! From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 12 06:16:25 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970912111625.0067e840@pop3.concentric.net> There's Model 100 web site that offers free tech help and software for the 100 At 09:17 PM 9/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >A friend of mine and I both have TRS Model 100s with problems and I am >looking for schematics to the unit. If anyone has them for sale, cost of >copies, scanned in, etc., I would much appreciate hearing about it. Thanks! > > > From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Sep 12 08:11:04 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Classic computer toy? Mattel Intellivision, anyone want? Message-ID: <199709121313.IAA18839@sunflower.com> Id love to have this. ---------- > From: will emerson > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Classic computer toy? Mattel Intellivision, anyone want? > Date: Thursday, September 11, 1997 6:17 PM > > Hello, > Not sure this is the proper place for this, and I apologize if it > isn't, but I have > a Mattel Intellivision setup (left for us by a long ago former tenant of > a property > we used to own) with a bunch of cartridges. I have no clue as to whether > the > thing works, as it's been in a box in my basement for a good five years > (and, who > knows how long in the basement of the previous owner), but, if someone > wants > to "give it a home", please let me know. Located in Sudbury, Mass. USA. > > > Will > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Sep 12 10:18:32 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Classic computer toy? Mattel Intellivision, anyone want? In-Reply-To: <199709121313.IAA18839@sunflower.com> from "Bill Girnius" at Sep 12, 97 08:11:04 am Message-ID: <9709121418.AA07044@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970912/e9392e1f/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Fri Sep 12 09:49:17 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970912111625.0067e840@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > There's Model 100 web site that offers free tech help and software for the 100 Actually, there are several. Club 100 Andy Diller's Web 100 These have links to other useful pages. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Sep 12 09:36:15 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: FW: For Sale Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970912073615.00e89ad0@mail.wizards.net> Received this last night. Three questions: 1). What's an Osborne Executive? 2). What's it worth? 3). Is anyone interested? If so, please contact the guy directly. This one, personally, I'm not much interested in at the time. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- >Priority: Normal >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >To: kyrrin2@wizards.net >From: "pro" >Subject: For Sale >Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 11:01:39 PDT > >We have an Osborne Executive, excellent condition, complete with cables, >manuals, and software. Make offer? Thanks. > >Paul R. Ogushwitz, Ph.D. >PRO Scientific Consulting, 303 Center Street, Hackettstown, NJ 07840 >Phone 908-850-1636 >Email pro@goes.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dastar at crl.com Fri Sep 12 09:54:42 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: FW: For Sale In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970912073615.00e89ad0@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Bruce Lane wrote: > Received this last night. Three questions: > > 1). What's an Osborne Executive? A re-design of the Osborne 1. A bit more polished. Probably had higher density drives although I don't know the technical differences. Had a bigger screen. > 2). What's it worth? Watcha got? ;) I got mine included in a carload of stuff, said car load costing $130. As if that helps. > >We have an Osborne Executive, excellent condition, complete with cables, > >manuals, and software. Make offer? Thanks. > > > >Paul R. Ogushwitz, Ph.D. > >PRO Scientific Consulting, 303 Center Street, Hackettstown, NJ 07840 > >Phone 908-850-1636 > >Email pro@goes.com Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Fri Sep 12 10:32:57 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Follow-up PS320 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970912014909.00684e74@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > Still waiting to hear what the code numbers 554 mean that I get on the > Powerstation 320 from IBM ?? As Isaid before it boots up to this number but > I get no video on the monitor it's a IBM 6091-19 that came with the 320. > Would like to get some documentation on this machine if anyone would like > trade or sell. Oh, that is me. Sorry, but I have been out of town on business, cursing AOL all the way. I am back now, and will dig up the information when I get home. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Fri Sep 12 11:01:36 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: HP 2100A available from Ann Arbor MI In-Reply-To: <199709111426.JAA25579@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Message-ID: > I don't think it will "die a horrible death." I emailed them yesterday > when I first saw the newsgroup post and have heard back. I'll have to have > it shipped but I figure it's the price I'll just have to pay. :-) I've > been looking for one of these for years. I have been looking for only a real HP 2100A system rack, but none of the innards (unless it is something I do not have!). Does anyone know if the rack is original, or 3rd party? William Donzelli william@ans.net From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Sep 12 10:13:37 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: FW: For Sale In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19970912073615.00e89ad0@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: >On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Bruce Lane wrote: > >> Received this last night. Three questions: >> >> 1). What's an Osborne Executive? > >A re-design of the Osborne 1. A bit more polished. Probably had higher >density drives although I don't know the technical differences. Had a >bigger screen. It had double density, 40trk drives, same as the O-1 with the DD upgrade. The Executive, however, ran CP/M+ (3.0) as opposed to 2.2 on the O-1. I think (assume) it also had 128K RAM. <<>> From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Fri Sep 12 12:11:56 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970912171156.00860388@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 08:39 AM 07/09/97 -0500, you wrote: >20 of them just got trashed, but if you want a couple I'll be stopping in >the shop later this week and if they have a new batch in I will pick you up >a couple. We can settle up after I get them. They also have alot of SE's, >512's, and sometimes the 128's. There is also a thrift store here that >sells all computers for 80 cents including taxes. Everyone has started going >here and it's getting harder to catch any good machines there. If anyone >reading this is looking for HP stuff let me know as I passed on a complete >HP3000 for $10. Sounds good, any idea on how much shipping will be to St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada? I would be intersted in only one Mac Plus, as space is at a premium, although if you could find a Tandy Model 100 for a comparble price there (that 80 cents sounds really good) I would appreciate you picking one of them up as well. Thanks in advance... ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Fri Sep 12 12:22:38 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970912172238.00862a24@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 12:57 AM 07/09/97 -0800, you wrote: >Couple of questions. How much does Minix cost now days? Last I looked it >was ~$200 for the PC, although I'll admit this was back in '92 when it was >a fairly good alternative to Linux (I remember when Linux didn't have a >login prompt, you were dropped staight to single user). You can get a 6-CD >Linux set for $25. > >Second, what major UNIX apps are there for Minix? Linux has basically all >the freeware ones (when it comes to UNIX don't let the term freeware scare >you away, it's often far better than commercial PC software). Yikes! $200.00! I didn't think it was that much, I was under the impression that it was in the range of $30.00-$40.00 dollars US. Of course, I could be mistaken, maybe that is the price for i86 version... I don't think there are many apps out there for MINIX (as compared to LINUX) but from what I could see, the list is growing everyday. I think MINIX would be great for a portable, unless of course the portable is the only machine you have. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Fri Sep 12 12:31:49 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Win95 + irritable user WAS: Re: FS: Mac Plus Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970912173149.008627d8@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 09:24 AM 07/09/97 -0400, you wrote: > Because RedHat or Debian will have support for just about >every hardware option he might ever need, has precompiled applications >in a simple to use and install format (.rpm or .dep), and simple X >based TK configuration utilities *somewhat* similar to Windows' control >panel. > Minux is pretty cool, and until Linux-Lite comes out, the only >option for a free Unix like OS (that I know of) on the 8088/80286. >But from what I saw, he has at least a 386. I've got a 386DX-20 >running Linux performing IP-Masquerading (in kernel IP translation - >which minux most definitely *won't* do) and routing, name services for >my internal network, a small web server for documentation (to other >internal machines), and as a slow SCSI backup server to an old Exabyte >(which was the free find of the century, I might add) and am perfectly >happy with it's performance and utility. It's simple to install, >simple to configure, and once it's done I can leave it up and running >without concern. For example: > Granted that MINIX cannot compare to Linux when it comes to apps and support, the reason I suggested it was because he wanted to install it on 386 portables. There are enough apps out there for MINIX for the basics, and the list grows everyday. Also I was thinking of disk space, MINIX only requires 30mb of space, so it would be ideal for portables... As for being simple to install... well, since when did people like us who collect classic machines worry about anything being simple ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From william at ans.net Fri Sep 12 18:02:19 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Follow-up PS320 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970912014909.00684e74@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > Still waiting to hear what the code numbers 554 mean that I get on the > Powerstation 320 from IBM ?? As Isaid before it boots up to this number but > I get no video on the monitor it's a IBM 6091-19 that came with the 320. > Would like to get some documentation on this machine if anyone would like > trade or sell. Version 1.3 of the "Diagnostics Programs: Operator Guide" does not list 554 as an error code. 553 is Phase 1 of IPL completed, and 558 means there is not enough memort to complete the IPL. My guess is that 554 means that the IPL aborted for some reason, as if someone wiped out the disk. During the last half of the IPL, numbers between 700 and 999 should be seen. I assume that this 554 comes up after a few minutes of booting. Generally, all of the BIST (Built In Self Test) stuff occurs in the first minute or so (makes sense) and has codes in the 200 range. Note that half of the codes are not error messages, but just status. I would say the machine is most likely fine, but you may need to get another copy of AIX. William Donzelli william@ans.net From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Sep 12 19:44:47 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Fellow's got cards... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970912174447.00e8f2a0@mail.wizards.net> ...coming out of his ears, darn near. If any of you have need of DEC cards for MicroVAXen, I'd check with this guy. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mzthompson@aol.com To: kyrrin2@wizards.net Subject: M7546 TK50 Controller In the event that you may have an intereset in some of the other cards I have, I will paste a list to the end of this. Regards, Mike Thompson --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : KA630-AA Module No: M7606 Card Desc: CPU Module Quantity : 6 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : MS630-BB Module No: M7608 Card Desc: 4 MB Memory Module Quantity : 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : MS630-CA Module No: M7609 Card Desc: 8 MB Memory Module Quantity : 11 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : KDA50-Q Module No: M7164 & M7165 Card Desc: SDI Disk Interface Quantity : M7164 - 4, M7165 - 3 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : DQ256 Module No: Card Desc: SDI Interface Quantity : 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : TSV05 Module No: M7196 Card Desc: Tape ? Controller Quantity : 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : RQDX3 Module No: M7555 Card Desc: Disk Controller Quantity : 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : TQK70-SA Module No: M7559 Card Desc: TK70 Tape Controller Quantity : 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : KLESI Module No: M7740 Card Desc: TU81 Tape Controller Quantity : 1 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : DEQNA Module No: M7504 Card Desc: Ethernet Interface Quantity : 4 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : DELQA Module No: M7516 Card Desc: Ethernet Interface Quantity : 2 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : DELNA Module No: M7513 Card Desc: Expander Module, connects external RD50 or RX50 to controller Quantity : 3 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : TQK50 Module No: M7546 Card Desc: TK50 Tape Interface Quantity : 5 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : DZQ11 Module No: M3106 Card Desc: 4 Line Async Multiplexer (dual height card) Quantity : 2 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Part No : CXY08 Module No: M3119 Card Desc: 8 Chan Async Interface Quantity : 1 Notes: 5400/5500, Have more, plus have 6 cable assemblies --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 12 20:53:05 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Follow-up PS320 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970912014909.00684e74@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: >Still waiting to hear what the code numbers 554 mean that I get on the >Powerstation 320 from IBM ?? As Isaid before it boots up to this number but >I get no video on the monitor it's a IBM 6091-19 that came with the 320. >Would like to get some documentation on this machine if anyone would like >trade or sell. Hi, I was able to look this one up at work today. Basically it's complaining about one of two things. The first cause is that it can't boot off of the disk, the second is if it had been connected to a network, that it can't find NFS Swap space. My guess would be the second, after all how many people bother to wipe disks? No idea how to fix it, the best bet would be a clean install of AIX. BTW this is a RS/6000 machine. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 12 20:12:56 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Follow-up PS320 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970913011256.0069527c@pop3.concentric.net> Thanks for the follow-up answer and I will see if I can get a copy of AIX from some where. At 07:02 PM 9/12/97 -0400, you wrote: >> Still waiting to hear what the code numbers 554 mean that I get on the >> Powerstation 320 from IBM ?? As Isaid before it boots up to this number but >> I get no video on the monitor it's a IBM 6091-19 that came with the 320. >> Would like to get some documentation on this machine if anyone would like >> trade or sell. > >Version 1.3 of the "Diagnostics Programs: Operator Guide" does not list >554 as an error code. 553 is Phase 1 of IPL completed, and 558 means there >is not enough memort to complete the IPL. > >My guess is that 554 means that the IPL aborted for some reason, as if >someone wiped out the disk. During the last half of the IPL, numbers >between 700 and 999 should be seen. > >I assume that this 554 comes up after a few minutes of booting. Generally, >all of the BIST (Built In Self Test) stuff occurs in the first minute or >so (makes sense) and has codes in the 200 range. Note that half of the >codes are not error messages, but just status. > >I would say the machine is most likely fine, but you may need to get >another copy of AIX. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 12 20:15:46 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Follow-up PS320 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970913011546.00698ac0@pop3.concentric.net> Thanks for your input on the problem and I will try the install as soon as I get a copy of AIX. THANKS At 05:53 PM 9/12/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Still waiting to hear what the code numbers 554 mean that I get on the >>Powerstation 320 from IBM ?? As Isaid before it boots up to this number but >>I get no video on the monitor it's a IBM 6091-19 that came with the 320. >>Would like to get some documentation on this machine if anyone would like >>trade or sell. > >Hi, >I was able to look this one up at work today. Basically it's complaining >about one of two things. The first cause is that it can't boot off of the >disk, the second is if it had been connected to a network, that it can't >find NFS Swap space. My guess would be the second, after all how many >people bother to wipe disks? No idea how to fix it, the best bet would be >a clean install of AIX. > >BTW this is a RS/6000 machine. > > Zane > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | >+----------------------------------+---------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > > > > From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Sep 12 23:26:38 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... Message-ID: <341A15FE.1ADF@goldrush.com> Here is something new: I just read a newsgroup post about a (somewhat) poor soul who has gotten a PET 2001 with a rusty case looking for re-finishing/painting suggestions. I suggested he subscribe here and ask for help. Thinking about it this is a cool topic for discussion, has anyone re-painted their computer cases and what tips/suggestions do you have for us or what should we avoid (also got any good color schemes?). (I have a few 64s lying around that would look neat with a custom paint job, since they are plastic, what do you suggest? I remember a letter in one of the Commodore mags on how to remove and re-set the alphanumeric decals on a keyboard, maybe I sould spend half a day in the storage unit and find some of this stuff... :/ Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 13 00:07:59 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... In-Reply-To: <341A15FE.1ADF@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson & Diane Hare" at Sep 12, 97 08:26:38 pm Message-ID: <9709130407.AA10681@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 985 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970912/7b329be0/attachment.ksh From pcoad at crl.com Sat Sep 13 01:55:02 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: FW: For Sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > >On Fri, 12 Sep 1997, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > >> Received this last night. Three questions: > >> > >> 1). What's an Osborne Executive? > > > >A re-design of the Osborne 1. A bit more polished. Probably had higher > >density drives although I don't know the technical differences. Had a > >bigger screen. > > It had double density, 40trk drives, same as the O-1 with the DD upgrade. > The Executive, however, ran CP/M+ (3.0) as opposed to 2.2 on the O-1. > I think (assume) it also had 128K RAM. > I checked my Osborne Executive Reference Guide. It lists starndard hardware features: Z80A central processor 124K total RAM 4K RAM for two charactersets (128 characters/set) 4K x 12 RAM for video memory 8K ROM 2K bytes scratchpad RAM 7-inch amber video monitor Two double-density disk drives (185K capacity each) Two RS-232-C serial ports Parallel port: IEEE 488 or Centronics protocols External Video connector Composite video connector (RS-470) Full upper/lowercase keyboard, with numeric keypad The RAM is bank-switched. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html From darrellg at mail.dngsolutions.net Sat Sep 13 02:44:35 1997 From: darrellg at mail.dngsolutions.net (Darrell Gardner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Buy and Sell Antiques and Collectib Message-ID: <19970913074148855.ABC71@dngsolutions.net> Hello, We are writing you because you appeared to be interested in antiques and collectibles and that is what we are all about, the buying and selling of antiques and collectibles in an auction environment. We are a new family oriented auction company that has opened its site at: http://www.acaonline.com. IMPORTANT: If you do NOT wish to receive future information about our company or updates, simply reply to this e-mail message with the word "delete" and please accept our apologies for the intrusion. However, if you are interested, please read on and "Enter our World". Whether you are a BUYER or SELLER we invite you to join the fun. BUYERS Our service is ABSOLUTELY FREE for buyers. Come and register with us and have fun bidding online. We give you the feel of a real auction! Current auctions include: Hummels, Lladro, Clocks, Advertising Tins & Signs, Pottery, China, Depression Glass, Civil War and other photography, Elegant Glassware, Hallmark, Precious Moments, Tools, Cookie Jars, Jewelry and much more. SELLERS This is not only a great opportunity to sell your items, but to advertise YOUR WEB SITE. Whenever you post an item up for auction on ACA Online, you can put a link in the items description area that points back to your page. That's FREE advertising for you! We welcome any comments and suggestions. Thank you for taking the time to read our information! ********************************************************** Click here now to visit us: http://www.acaonline.com ********************************************************** /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Sep 13 06:15:04 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... In-Reply-To: <9709130407.AA10681@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <341A15FE.1ADF@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson & Diane Hare" at Sep 12, 97 08:26:38 pm Message-ID: >> Here is something new: >> >> I just read a newsgroup post about a (somewhat) poor soul who has >> gotten a PET 2001 with a rusty case looking for re-finishing/painting >> suggestions. I suggested he subscribe here and ask for help. > >For a real pro job, powdercoating is the only way to go. Sandblast the >old paint job off and take it into the nearest powdercoater. Powdercoating >will also yield a surface texture that's real close to the >original one. I take it that powdercoating is what gives a computer case that "textured" feel? Out of curiousity, why do the manufacturers use this (as opposed to straight enamel on metal, like an automobile)? <<>> From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Sep 11 18:52:34 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: RD52 drive geometry Message-ID: Hello, all: How do I determine the drive geometry for a DEC drive? If you've been following my uVAX thread, I need to reformat my external RD52 drive. I've looked in my various PC references and can't find a Quantum drive with a similar capacity. TIA! >========================================> Rich Cini/WUGNET MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking, Charter ClubWin! Member (6) and a collector of classic computers From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 13 09:23:24 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: RD52 drive geometry In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 11, 97 11:52:34 pm Message-ID: <9709131323.AA10853@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 858 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970913/a786c73f/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 13 09:32:48 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... In-Reply-To: from "John Ruschmeyer" at Sep 13, 97 08:15:04 am Message-ID: <9709131332.AA19825@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1197 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970913/1ed71e0c/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Sep 13 08:43:13 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970913134313.0067dc94@pop3.concentric.net> The Obsolete Computer web site has some good tips on case repair and in the FAQ section of classiccmp are some good tips. At 08:26 PM 9/12/97 -0800, you wrote: >Here is something new: > > I just read a newsgroup post about a (somewhat) poor soul who has >gotten a PET 2001 with a rusty case looking for re-finishing/painting >suggestions. I suggested he subscribe here and ask for help. > > Thinking about it this is a cool topic for discussion, has anyone >re-painted their computer cases and what tips/suggestions do you have >for us or what should we avoid (also got any good color schemes?). (I >have a few 64s lying around that would look neat with a custom paint >job, since they are plastic, what do you suggest? > > I remember a letter in one of the Commodore mags on how to remove and >re-set the alphanumeric decals on a keyboard, maybe I sould spend half a >day in the storage unit and find some of this stuff... :/ > > Larry Anderson >-- >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ >Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 13 10:07:53 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970913134313.0067dc94@pop3.concentric.net> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Sep 13, 97 08:43:13 am Message-ID: <9709131407.AA10765@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 361 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970913/3da116f5/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Sep 13 12:50:15 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Sep 1997, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > >> Here is something new: > >> > >> I just read a newsgroup post about a (somewhat) poor soul who has > >> gotten a PET 2001 with a rusty case looking for re-finishing/painting > >> suggestions. I suggested he subscribe here and ask for help. > > > >For a real pro job, powdercoating is the only way to go. Sandblast the > >old paint job off and take it into the nearest powdercoater. Powdercoating > >will also yield a surface texture that's real close to the > >original one. > > I take it that powdercoating is what gives a computer case that "textured" > feel? Out of curiousity, why do the manufacturers use this (as opposed to > straight enamel on metal, like an automobile)? > > <<>> Not necessarily, John. It can be quite smooth and shiny. It is the normal standard for re/finishing aluminum patio furniture amongst other things. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From william at ans.net Sat Sep 13 13:21:23 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... In-Reply-To: <9709131332.AA19825@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > "Hammertone" finish has been popular on electronic equipment going back > to the 1910's, at least. (Earlier stuff often used a far more > extreme "wrinkle" finish.) Not only does it reduce glare off an > instrument's surface, but it also hides small manufacturing defects > a lot better, too :-) Wrinkle finishes seem to have mostly died out near 1960 or so. The only (production) computer I have seen in wrinkle finish is the outer case of a Packard Bell 250. The textured finish found on more modern stuff (sometimes called a splatter finish, as the first coat is splattered on with a purposely crummy airbrush setup) can be restored quite easily, unlike wrinkle finishes. For small (or big, if you are patient) bare spots, all one must do is match the color of the paint at the paint shop, then manually apply the texture with a toothpick or swab. For larger jobs, you could try a badly done airbrush job. After the texture has dried, a smooth coat is then applied to cover the whole repair and blend the new and existing paint (an airbrush is a must for this job). The color will match, but most likely the new paint will be duller than the old paint. This may be acceptable to some, but if not, the new paint can be slowly buffed to the proper sheen. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Sep 13 14:43:56 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Here we go AGAIN! Message-ID: I finally got the '44 to it's (so far) permanent location, and I'm trying to get it all back together, minus the rack (Looking for someplace to put it, it's too bug to get up 8 floors!). I may try anyway... The problem is, I have to get everything in ONE ba11 (Due to lack of power). So, I have no massbus stuff, and I only need 16 com ports for now, so I got 2 DZ11s, the processor, the UDA50, and 1.75MB of RAM into the processor box. My test was to fire it all up, and do "b du0" and UDA50 would wait forever for the RA81 to answer. The RA is still down in my car (I get to unload it myslef - oh boy!) and I can't bring it up yet. Anyway, everything powers up, but when I try to get it to boot, I get to wait about 5 seconds, then I get $20 MPC=15 (I think the $ may have been something else) This (According to the manual) means "the processor started a transfer, but it timed out". Do I have to play with the backplane to get the new config to work? I have NPG cards in everything that's empty. The UDA50 strobes like it's supposed to... The bus is laid out like this: +-----+----+---------+ | | | PRCSSR | | RH11| DZ | | |MBUS | | | +-----+----+---------+ That's then way it WAS. The UDA50 is where the DZ was, the DZ moved to the RH11 area, because when the UDA50 was there, it said the CPU was halted. (All the lights were on) I have an M950 joining the CPU to the UDA, and an M9500 (I think) joining the UDA to the DZs. And the bus IS terminated! I also have NPG plugs on the M950 and M9500. Also: There appears to be a Road Runner (Real, not the animated one) etched on the the 2nd UDA50 card, bu the name. Anyone know anything about that? From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Sep 13 14:04:57 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection Message-ID: Gang, Our bid on a new house has been accepted and my wife and I have started the task of packing. In reviewing my own computer collection, it looks like it's time to part with a few pieces which are redundant or for which I really don't have the time anymore. Therefore, the following are free to a good home: 1. Perkin-Elmer (Concurrent) 7350, 2MB RAM, 320K floppy, 30MB HD, KB, mono monitor. This is a 68000-based Unix box, often used for instrument control. Runs IDRIS, Uniplus SystemIII, and/or MicroXELOS (Uniplus-derived SVR2) (currently installed). Comes with copious manuals (including service docs), OS disks (plus extra copies), and some applications software. 2. AT&T 3B2/310, 4MB RAM, 2x72MB HD, floppy. Includes EPORTS, tape, SCSI, and Ethernet cards. Also have additional tape and PORTS cards. Comes with full set of manuals adn OS diskettes. 3. Zenith Z-89. 64K RAM, hard-sector disk controller. 4. Apple //c (ROM 255). 128K RAM, includes power brick. 5. TRS-80 Model III. 48K, 2 floppies (may need speed adjustment), serial card installed. Works, but not the prettiest Model III. 6. TRS-80 Color Computer 2 (older version). 64K, Extended Color Basic. Works, but again not the prettiest. 7. Dead Compaq Portable (original). Motherboard dead, some sort of problem with power supply. KB and video find. Includes Video, Printer, and HD controller cards. Also includes all case pieces. May be useful for someone attempting to restore one. I'm located in Central New Jersey. I'd prefer not to have to ship, but will do so if someone is will ing to pay. For obvious reasons, the Perkin-Elmer and AT&T may be too much to ship. <<>> From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Sep 13 16:58:38 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Here we go AGAIN! In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Sep 13, 97 07:43:56 pm Message-ID: <9709132058.AA09791@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2062 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970913/9755cfc5/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Sep 13 18:32:58 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Buy and Sell Antiques and Collectib Message-ID: <970913193256_894139450@emout05.mail.aol.com> what the heck is this? i hope i dont have to see spam on this list! david In a message dated 97-09-13 08:22:25 EDT, you write: << Hello, We are writing you because you appeared to be interested in antiques and collectibles and that is what we are all about, the buying and selling of antiques and collectibles in an auction environment. We are a new family oriented auction company that has opened its site at: http://www.acaonline.com. IMPORTANT: If you do NOT wish to receive future information about our company or updates, simply reply to this e-mail message with the word "delete" and please accept our apologies for the intrusion. However, if you are interested, please read on and "Enter our World". Whether you are a BUYER or SELLER we invite you to join the fun. BUYERS Our service is ABSOLUTELY FREE for buyers. Come and register with us and have fun bidding online. We give you the feel of a real auction! Current auctions include: Hummels, Lladro, Clocks, Advertising Tins & Signs, Pottery, China, Depression Glass, Civil War and other photography, Elegant Glassware, Hallmark, Precious Moments, Tools, Cookie Jars, Jewelry and much more. SELLERS This is not only a great opportunity to sell your items, but to advertise YOUR WEB SITE. Whenever you post an item up for auction on ACA Online, you can put a link in the items description area that points back to your page. That's FREE advertising for you! We welcome any comments and suggestions. Thank you for taking the time to read our information! ********************************************************** Click here now to visit us: http://www.acaonline.com ********************************************************** ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // >> From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 13 20:01:39 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Buy and Sell Antiques and Collectib In-Reply-To: <970913193256_894139450@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >what the heck is this? i hope i dont have to see spam on this list! > >david I hate to say it but mailing lists seem to be the latest target for spam. This is the second list I've seem spammed in the last week. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From wpe at interserv.com Sat Sep 13 19:27:44 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:59 2005 Subject: Buy and Sell Antiques and Collectib References: <19970913074148855.ABC71@dngsolutions.net> Message-ID: <341B2F7F.72BC7E77@interserv.com> Delete Darrell Gardner wrote: > Hello, > > We are writing you because you appeared to be interested in > antiques and collectibles and that is what we are all about, the > buying and selling of antiques and collectibles in an auction > environment. We are a new family oriented auction company that > has opened its site at: http://www.acaonline.com. > > IMPORTANT: If you do NOT wish to receive future information about > our company or updates, simply reply to this e-mail message with > the word "delete" and please accept our apologies for the intrusion. > However, if you are interested, please read on and "Enter our World". > > Whether you are a BUYER or SELLER we invite you to join the fun. > > BUYERS > Our service is ABSOLUTELY FREE for buyers. Come and register with > us and have fun bidding online. We give you the feel of a real > auction! Current auctions include: Hummels, Lladro, Clocks, > Advertising Tins & Signs, Pottery, China, Depression Glass, Civil > War and other photography, Elegant Glassware, Hallmark, Precious > Moments, Tools, Cookie Jars, Jewelry and much more. > > SELLERS > This is not only a great opportunity to sell your items, but to > advertise YOUR WEB SITE. Whenever you post an item up for auction > on ACA Online, you can put a link in the items description area that > points back to your page. That's FREE advertising for you! > > We welcome any comments and suggestions. > > Thank you for taking the time to read our information! > > ********************************************************** > Click here now to visit us: http://www.acaonline.com > ********************************************************** > > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > //////////////////// > If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, > please reply > with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block > you > from their future mailings. > /////////////////////////// > //////////////////////////////////////////////////// -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Sep 13 15:33:06 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: RD52 drive geometry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709140030.UAA18120@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 23:52:34 UT > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Richard A. Cini, Jr." > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: RD52 drive geometry > X-To: "ClassCompList" > Hello, all: > > How do I determine the drive geometry for a DEC drive? If you've been > following my uVAX thread, I need to reformat my external RD52 drive. I've > looked in my various PC references and can't find a Quantum drive with a > similar capacity. > Model number of this quantum hd please? I can find the specs for you if you would like that. Jason D. > TIA! > > >========================================> > Rich Cini/WUGNET > > MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking, > Charter ClubWin! Member (6) and a > collector of classic computers > > > From wpe at interserv.com Sat Sep 13 19:40:07 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Intellivision stuff claimed! Message-ID: <341B3267.F08BBDEF@interserv.com> Hello Everyone, Allison Parent has taken over custody of the Intellivision stuff.. Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 14 02:01:49 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival References: <199709061308.JAA26726@granite.sentex.net> Message-ID: <341B8BDD.8C4E4791@rain.org> COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf wrote: > Please let me tell you a short story. I thought we had a great idea for a > fund-raiser for the COMMPUTERSEUM. We would hold a public viewing of > Triumphs of the Nerds complete with door prizes and lots'o fun (picture > > with the COMMPUTERSEUM. A failure? Perhaps, but we learned and probably > all > sorts of people think a Nerd Night was held in Waterloo, Ontario., well > hey, > it did. It's on record. Did you do a critique to find out what happened? As I think about it, the idea sounds really great! However there had to be some reasons why people didn't show up and it would be interesting to know what comments took place afterwards by some of the people who didn't show. From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sun Sep 14 02:42:25 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... Message-ID: <341B9561.5340@oboe.calpoly.edu> > > "Hammertone" finish has been popular on electronic equipment going back > > to the 1910's, at least. (Earlier stuff often used a far more > > extreme "wrinkle" finish.) Not only does it reduce glare off an > > instrument's surface, but it also hides small manufacturing defects > > a lot better, too :-) > > Wrinkle finishes seem to have mostly died out near 1960 or so. The only > (production) computer I have seen in wrinkle finish is the outer case of a > Packard Bell 250. Yea but wrinkle still looks cool, it's just not as tough. Mostly 50's stuff. Hammertone is easy to do also. It's available in spray or regular cans (which I spray). The formula has been changed to meet newer standards but it looks good and is easy to apply. I even matched the color on some 50's gumball machines I restored a few years ago. They're on my web page. > The textured finish found on more modern stuff (sometimes called a > splatter finish, as the first coat is splattered on with a purposely > crummy airbrush setup) can be restored quite easily, unlike wrinkle > finishes. For small (or big, if you are patient) bare spots, all one must > do is match the color of the paint at the paint shop, then manually apply > the texture with a toothpick or swab. For larger jobs, you could try a > badly done airbrush job. After the texture has dried, a smooth coat is > then applied to cover the whole repair and blend the new and existing > paint (an airbrush is a must for this job). The color will match, but most > likely the new paint will be duller than the old paint. This may be > acceptable to some, but if not, the new paint can be slowly buffed to the > proper sheen. We used to touch up that type of finish at work (way back in the 70's, yikes!). We used a piece of sponge or foam rubber and dabbed it on. That can help blend it in and minimize mismatch. Worked great. Toothpicks, etc work fine for smaller areas. The trick is to match the color or it'll stand out like a sore thumb. The glossiness can also affect the job. Buffing is hard to do because of the texture. Maybe I'm getting too picky here but you get the idea. They do make splatter guns and there are always the commercial coatings guys that can do it but that could be expensive. I'd say if you want it matched, take it down to the auto paint shop and have them match the color. Ask if they can match the glossiness (??) and if they can't, buy some additive and do it yourself. Probably easier to find something close and spray the whole thing. The "crummy airbrush setup" might work but it'll take some time. I find that learning the process and doing the job is the best part of the whole thing. Greg http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast/ From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 14 10:56:09 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Zenith ZTX-11Z References: Message-ID: <341C0919.C6DB932C@rain.org> The ebay auction has a Zenith ZTX-11Z at http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=307067 and it looks interesting. It is a dutch auction and the quantity they have available is somewhere just above 100 (don't recall exactly). There is a pretty good description of the unit along with its capabilities. From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Sep 14 17:35:06 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: PET FAQ On-Line... Message-ID: <341C669A.25F8@goldrush.com> After many months of hard-procrastination I have finally put my PET FAQ on-line. Those of you interested can check it out directly by going to: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/petfaq.html or you can check out the FAQ as well as my other Commodor 8-bit www pages by going to the url below. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 14 18:36:36 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Gang, > >Our bid on a new house has been accepted and my wife and I have started the >task of packing. In reviewing my own computer collection, it looks like it's >time to part with a few pieces which are redundant or for which I really >don't have the time anymore. Well, thanks to you all, everything is spoken for. <<>> From 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us Sun Sep 14 19:58:53 1997 From: 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us (Greg Piper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection References: Message-ID: <341C884D.FD6@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> ok i will take them. how much for shipping or will you kindly pay it? From 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us Sun Sep 14 19:59:27 1997 From: 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us (Greg Piper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection References: Message-ID: <341C886F.1A85@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> how many pieces are tehre? From 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us Sun Sep 14 20:14:19 1997 From: 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us (Greg Piper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: discussion recollecting of classic computers Message-ID: <341C8BEB.4A4E@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> hey ill take them all how much for shipping From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Sep 14 19:28:49 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: discussion recollecting of classic computers In-Reply-To: <341C8BEB.4A4E@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> Message-ID: >hey ill take them all how much for shipping I'm sorry.. they've all been spoken for. <<>> From dastar at crl.com Sun Sep 14 23:26:52 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: discussion recollecting of classic computers In-Reply-To: <341C8BEB.4A4E@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Sep 1997, Greg Piper wrote: > hey ill take them all how much for shipping Ok dude. Please reply directly to the author of the message next time. Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Mon Sep 15 02:58:19 1997 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II or PDP 11? Message-ID: <341CEA9B.C4D934C7@coleg-powys.ac.uk> I have just got a 'new' computer over the weekend. It was advertised as a MicroVAX II with 2xRA81, 8Mb, and tape drive. It has VMS 5.x on one of the RA81s and Ultrix on the other. It looks like the picture in the Digital manuals of a MicroVAX II 630 (tall rack unit with RA81 at top and bottom with the processor modules in between), however it was only when I got it home that I saw the badge above the On/Off switch which says "Digital PDP11/83". When VMS starts it says VAX/VMS Version 5.x (can't remember the minor version number) and when Ultrix starts it reports that it is running on: MicroVAX II with FPU What have I got? By the way, the date stamped on all of the cases and labels is in 1988 if that helps. Can anyone tell me anything about it? -- Regards Pete #include From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 15 04:21:29 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: This request goes out to anyone who maintains a classic/antique/vintage computer web page. Could I get you to add a link from your page to the Vintage Computer Festival web page (URL below)? In return, I will list your page in the links section of the VCF web page. Please reply directly to me if you are interested in helping me out. Also, could I get a rough show of hands of those who are interested in attending the Vintage Computer Festival? I'm trying to get an idea of what the interest level is among fellow collectors for this type of show. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also, your comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Sep 15 09:01:44 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II or PDP 11? In-Reply-To: <341CEA9B.C4D934C7@coleg-powys.ac.uk> from "Peter Joules" at Sep 15, 97 08:58:19 am Message-ID: <9709151301.AA06099@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 752 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970915/9a106e6e/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 15 10:22:31 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival References: Message-ID: <341D52B7.C484F18B@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > Also, could I get a rough show of hands of those who are interested in > attending the Vintage Computer Festival? I'm trying to get an idea of > what the interest level is among fellow collectors for this type of > show. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also, your comments > and suggestions are welcome. Thanks! Everyone I have talked to who was involved in the early days of computers has a high degree of interest in this show. I talked to a friend of mine last night, who it turns out was also a Burroughs field engineer about 20 years ago, who thought this was a great idea. He will also be attending if he can work out the schedule as he is rather busy. I can't speak much for those who weren't involved in the early days of computers since I don't know that many people in that catagory :). From pdp-11 at juno.com Mon Sep 15 14:18:53 1997 From: pdp-11 at juno.com (Kevin Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Computer warehouse liquidation Message-ID: <19970915.131853.21318.1.PDP-11@juno.com> As owner of a DEC PDP-11/23+ system, I know how difficult it can be to find hardware for older PDP-11's, as well as non-DEC computers and parts.. I'd like to inform you that I've found a terrific source in Utah for used computer hardware including DEC related items. This person has a 2400 sq ft warehouse (about 3 semi truck loads) quite literally brimming with computer hardware which has been collected and stored over the past 10 years. He is currently in the process of liquidating it at very, very low prices. Tons of miscellaneous computer equipment is available, much of which was manufactured by DEC. It would be impossible to list even a fraction of what he has available, but he has told me that his inventory includes approximately 1000 Q-Bus and Unibus boards, plus peripheral devices such as disk and tape drives. I've not been to the warehouse in person yet, but I will be visiting the site in about 2 weeks time from now. If interested, you should be aware that he is in the process of getting rid of EVERYTHING! It sounds like it will all be gone in the next 3 to 4 weeks. Opportunities like this very seldom come along, so please contact me via email if you are interested in finding out more. I'll be happy to forward to you, any needed information that I can. Please feel free to forward this notice to anyone you think might be interested. Best regards. From 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us Mon Sep 15 17:29:25 1997 From: 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us (Greg Piper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Computer warehouse liquidation References: <19970915.131853.21318.1.PDP-11@juno.com> Message-ID: <341DB6C5.7709@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> got any ones you dont want??????? From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 15 17:58:41 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970915225841.00674f38@pop3.concentric.net> I would love to attend the festival but I have used up all my vacation for the year. If can borrow from the next I will travel from MN to CA for it. At 02:21 AM 9/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > >This request goes out to anyone who maintains a classic/antique/vintage >computer web page. > >Could I get you to add a link from your page to the Vintage Computer >Festival web page (URL below)? In return, I will list your page in the >links section of the VCF web page. > >Please reply directly to me if you are interested in helping me out. > > >Also, could I get a rough show of hands of those who are interested in >attending the Vintage Computer Festival? I'm trying to get an idea of >what the interest level is among fellow collectors for this type of >show. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also, your comments >and suggestions are welcome. Thanks! > > > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From wpe at interserv.com Mon Sep 15 18:12:29 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Info wanted, Congruent/Uniys machines Message-ID: <341DC0DD.8A53DC9D@interserv.com> Hi, I have a couple of systems given to me by an accountant friend. They bear a "Congruent" name plate, but the actual name on the S/N - Model # plate, is Unisys. At least one of them is a model CJ-5330-A12. While he was using these, he was running an operating system called C-TIX which is supposedly strictly for accounting type applications, and, he claims, this is the only OS that will run on these. Anybody know any thing about these. This C-TIX looks alot like UNIX as far as OS commands... But... Any help anyone can give me on this, is more than greatly appreciated. AdvaTHANKSnce! Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:21:56 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: FT: DEC Rainbow 100, printers Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192157.6c0f55c0@mail.crl.com> I picked up two DEC rainbow 100's and I only need one (actually, I don't need either, but I'm keeping one anyway. Love them disk drives!) This is a desktop unit with a really cute monitor/keyboard. Dunno if they work, but you can have your choice. So, anyone have anything they want to trade for one? Portables preferred... Also, I got a Kaypro printer (Daisywheel, I think) and a DEC printer that looks like a typewriter without the keys. (I'd go look at it to get the model, but I'm supposed to be working... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:22:06 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Passes Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192207.82678624@mail.crl.com> At 08:51 PM 9/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >> > faces with names! Anyone up for a dinner get together Saturday night? > I am totally unfamilar with the area but I am sure we can find a place to >eat. My preference would be someplace reasonable quiet so conversation is >possible :). The VCF is in Pleasanton, about 25-30 miles east-southeast of San Francisco. Roughly at the intersection of Hwys 580 & 680. As to where to eat, there's a Black Angus there which is a (chain) steakhouse that's pretty good. My no-red-meat-girlfriend likes 'em. It may be noisy though, as some are meet markets on the weekends with dance floors and such. (There's also the Cadillac Ranch nearby, which is really loud, but is good for C/W line dancing.) I'm sure others (who are more local) can point out good places. (For SF, check out my list at: ) Anyway, I'd be interested in dinner. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:22:09 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192211.826755e4@mail.crl.com> At 12:47 AM 9/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >A friend of mine and I both have TRS Model 100s with problems and I am >looking for schematics to the unit. If anyone has them for sale, cost of There's also the m100 mailing list, if you're not already on it. Kinda quiet, but in the past had lots of good info. It's hosted at Northernway (Roger Merchberger (which I'm sure I've misspelled) runs it now) and I'll bet you're going to ask for the address.... Send a message to with subscribe in the subject (I think) and a blank message to sign up. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:21:53 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-3000 Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192155.64379d30@mail.crl.com> Anyone know anything about the Sanyo MBC-3000? It's a desktop (like a TRS-80 Model II, kinda) with a built-in monitor and two vertical 8" drives on the right. I think it's a CP/M machine, but I'm not sure. (All I found on the web was a place in Aus that can do data conversions.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:21:49 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: KMW Batch Protocol Converters Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192151.6c0f33e4@mail.crl.com> Anyone know what these are? Best I can figure is they're maybe remote terminal servers for IBM 3278's or something? Anyway, I've got two of them, and I'm not sure I want to keep them. Anyone interested? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:22:30 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192232.5ea775c6@mail.crl.com> At 08:26 PM 9/12/97 -0800, you wrote: > Thinking about it this is a cool topic for discussion, has anyone >re-painted their computer cases and what tips/suggestions do you have >for us or what should we avoid (also got any good color schemes?). (I >have a few 64s lying around that would look neat with a custom paint >job, since they are plastic, what do you suggest? There was someone on the m100 mailing list who took his m100 apart and spray painted the case. A neat idea (except he broke his screen while putting it back together.) It's something I'd like to do one of these days, if I get a spare 100. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Mon Sep 15 21:22:56 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:00 2005 Subject: Buy and Sell Antiques and Collectib Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970915192258.0bc78c46@mail.crl.com> At 07:32 PM 9/13/97 -0400, you wrote: >what the heck is this? i hope i dont have to see spam on this list! Yep, you guessed it, it's spam. > has opened its site at: http://www.acaonline.com. Best thing to do is avoid this site. If you really want to, spread a rumour saying they're crooked. > If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please If a reply actually reaches a valid address, you may indeed be removed from *this* advertiser's mailings. However, you will have provided the spam facilitator with a valid address for his other customers... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From maynard at jmg.com Mon Sep 15 22:41:49 1997 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection In-Reply-To: (message from John Ruschmeyer on Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:36:36 -0300) Message-ID: <199709160341.XAA32314@jmg.com> John, My friend from work has expressed a strong desire for the 3B2, but I don't know if you both got in contact with each other. His name is Jack Twilley (jmt@nda.com). However, it's a little unclear to me if you have found another taker.... did you and Jack arrange the exchange? J. Maynard Gelinas > > >Gang, > > > >Our bid on a new house has been accepted and my wife and I have started the > >task of packing. In reviewing my own computer collection, it looks like it's > >time to part with a few pieces which are redundant or for which I really > >don't have the time anymore. > > Well, thanks to you all, everything is spoken for. > > <<>> > > From maynard at jmg.com Mon Sep 15 22:52:00 1997 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection In-Reply-To: <199709160341.XAA32314@jmg.com> (maynard@jmg.com) Message-ID: <199709160352.XAA32350@jmg.com> Oh jeesh! I posted this to the classic-comp mailing list because I didn't catch the reply-to! Sorry about that... I'll post a please disregard message on the list... --jmg > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:41:49 -0400 > From: "J. Maynard Gelinas" > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > CC: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Re: Time to part with part of the collection > > > John, > My friend from work has expressed a strong desire for the 3B2, > but I don't know if you both got in contact with each other. His name > is Jack Twilley (jmt@nda.com). However, it's a little unclear to me > if you have found another taker.... did you and Jack arrange the > exchange? > > J. Maynard Gelinas > > > > > >Gang, > > > > > >Our bid on a new house has been accepted and my wife and I have started the > > >task of packing. In reviewing my own computer collection, it looks like it's > > >time to part with a few pieces which are redundant or for which I really > > >don't have the time anymore. > > > > Well, thanks to you all, everything is spoken for. > > > > <<>> > > > > > From maynard at jmg.com Mon Sep 15 22:57:07 1997 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Time to part with part of the collection In-Reply-To: <199709160341.XAA32314@jmg.com> (maynard@jmg.com) Message-ID: <199709160357.XAA32377@jmg.com> This message was intended for John directly, but I accidentally posted to the list without noticing the effects of the reply-to.... whoops! Please disregard (jeesh, I feel like a newbie with my first email client <>). -- J. Maynard Gelinas > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:41:49 -0400 > From: "J. Maynard Gelinas" > To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > CC: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Subject: Re: Time to part with part of the collection > > > John, > My friend from work has expressed a strong desire for the 3B2, [snip] > > > > Well, thanks to you all, everything is spoken for. > > > > <<>> > > > > > From maynard at jmg.com Mon Sep 15 23:15:33 1997 From: maynard at jmg.com (J. Maynard Gelinas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Crumble, Fumble, my mail skills appear in trouble In-Reply-To: <199709160352.XAA32350@jmg.com> (maynard@jmg.com) Message-ID: <199709160415.AAA32437@jmg.com> This message is actually intended for both parties. And yes, that slant rhyme is intended as well.... I can't seem to get any of these emails to the right recipients! Hmmmph, let's look at my .emacs: [...] (setq rmail-ignored-headers ^via:\\|^mail-from:\\|^origin:\\| \ ^status:\\|^received:\\|^[a-z-]*message-id:\\|^summary-line:\\| \ ^errors-to:\\|^in-reply-to:\\|^precedence:\\|^references:\ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [...] uh huh... it goes on and on Is this reading like a lame Jerry Lewis film, or what?!? Yes, I *should* know better! flame me at will.... J. Maynard Gelinas > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:52:00 -0400 > From: "J. Maynard Gelinas" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Time to part with part of the collection From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 16 00:02:30 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems Message-ID: Hi, I just got a terrific addition to my collection of Apple computers. One slight problem though, either I'm doing something wrong, or else there is something wrong with it. Cosmetically it looks to be in good shape, the only thing I really notice on that mark is someone apparently tried to manually eject a floppy with something other than a paperclip. Opening up the case I saw one problem the four batteries need replacement, and are starting to corrode. Any idea's on where replacements can be found? The button above the keyboard jack doesn't seem to function properly, it lights up, but I can't turn the computer off using it, it simply resets it. I power it up with the Profile drive powered up and connected. It comes up and passes the diagnostics just fine, nice crisp, bright display. It then looks for a boot device, can't find it, and asks where to look or restart. I go to the menu to tell it where to look, and it fails to find it. However, if I go to the menu, and let it sit for a little while the light comes on solid on the profile drive. I can then tell it to start from that disk, then the screen goes dark, the profile disk whirrs a couple times (the disk is nice and quite, moreso than a lot of more modern drives). At this point it just sits there. I've left it in this state for several minutes, nothing. Even pressing the power button above the keyboard jack has no results (is this supposed to do anything?). If I press the reset button on the back, it reboots to the can't find startup device screen. Are there disk images of the boot disks available anywhere? I gather there is a program on the Apple site ftp://mirror.apple.com/mirrors/info-mac/disk/dart-153.hqx that will let you create them, but I haven't had any luck searching. I would almost assume they are on a Apple server somewhere since pre-System 7.1 MacOS, and the OS for the Apple II is there. Thanks for your time, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 15 23:35:44 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Sanyo MBC-3000 In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970915192155.64379d30@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > Anyone know anything about the Sanyo MBC-3000? It's a desktop (like a > TRS-80 Model II, kinda) with a built-in monitor and two vertical 8" drives > on the right. I think it's a CP/M machine, but I'm not sure. (All I found > on the web was a place in Aus that can do data conversions.) Yes, it is CP/M. Uses 256 x 26 sector DSDD diskettes. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Mon Sep 15 23:08:14 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Info wanted, Congruent/Uniys machines Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970916040814.00858584@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 07:12 PM 15/09/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > I have a couple of systems given to me by an accountant friend. They >bear a >"Congruent" name plate, but the actual name on the S/N - Model # plate, >is >Unisys. At least one of them is a model CJ-5330-A12. While he was using "Congruent"? I know Unisys aquired "Convergent" (in '88 i think) but I've never heard of "Congruent". How old are these systems? ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From davidv at cs.mun.ca Mon Sep 15 23:55:21 1997 From: davidv at cs.mun.ca (david vincent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Info wanted, Congruent/Uniys machines Message-ID: <199709160455.CAA11735@ganymede.cs.mun.ca> hmmm... got me At 02:08 AM 9/16/97 -0200, you wrote: >At 07:12 PM 15/09/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi, >> I have a couple of systems given to me by an accountant friend. They >>bear a >>"Congruent" name plate, but the actual name on the S/N - Model # plate, >>is >>Unisys. At least one of them is a model CJ-5330-A12. While he was using > > > "Congruent"? I know Unisys aquired "Convergent" (in '88 i think) but I've >never heard of "Congruent". How old are these systems? > >---------------------------------------------------------------- >______________________________________________Live from the GLRS > The Man From D.A.D >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Vincent davidv@ganymede.cs.mun.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 16 00:24:50 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival Passes In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970915192207.82678624@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > The VCF is in Pleasanton, about 25-30 miles east-southeast of San Francisco. > Roughly at the intersection of Hwys 580 & 680. > > As to where to eat, there's a Black Angus there which is a (chain) > steakhouse that's pretty good. My no-red-meat-girlfriend likes 'em. It may > be noisy though, as some are meet markets on the weekends with dance floors > and such. > > (There's also the Cadillac Ranch nearby, which is really loud, but is good > for C/W line dancing.) > > I'm sure others (who are more local) can point out good places. (For SF, > check out my list at: ) There's a Chevy's, a Chili's, and a whole bunch of other excellent restaraunts. Having a dinner would be great, and I am planning on hosting an after-show dinner on Saturday night. Everyone is welcome to come and meet each other. Hope to see as many people there as possible! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Sep 16 00:36:36 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: [?? Name of 70's toy computer] In-Reply-To: <341D440F.5DA1@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970915223636.009dc990@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:19 AM 9/15/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Here's one from the past: >What is the name of that toy mechanical digital computer >that was advertised in the back of many magazines and >catalogs like Edmunds Scientific and other tech hobby ones, >I believe in the early 70's. It was the size of a shoebox, >came unassembled, and had lots of moving parts. Sorry, >that's all I remember. But I think I saw one in the >Computer Museum in Boston several years ago. That would be the "DigiComp-1". Red plastic with slices of soda straws that you slip over tabs to "load" a program. Had one, lost it, would love to have one again... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From davidv at cs.mun.ca Tue Sep 16 00:49:45 1997 From: davidv at cs.mun.ca (david vincent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: sorry about foulup Message-ID: <199709160549.DAA12941@ganymede.cs.mun.ca> just sent personal reply to group, and would like to apologize to all members of the listserv. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Vincent davidv@ganymede.cs.mun.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Sep 16 00:52:51 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems Message-ID: I've got one of these too - beautiful computers, wonderfully engineered. >Opening up the case I saw one problem the four batteries need replacement, >and are starting to corrode. Any idea's on where replacements can be found? Always check for this. A very common problem is that the batteries corrode and kill the motherboard. >The button above the keyboard jack doesn't seem to function properly, it >lights up, but I can't turn the computer off using it, it simply resets it. Are you running it as a Mac XL or as a Lisa? Again, this is a common problem with the XL OS, and occurs on mine. Although not wise, I found switching it off at the power supply was the only solution. It does seem to work while booting up though - just not while in the OS. >However, if I go to the menu, and let it sit for a little while the light >comes on solid on the profile drive. I can then tell it to start from that >disk, then the screen goes dark, the profile disk whirrs a couple times >(the disk is nice and quite, moreso than a lot of more modern drives). Note that it takes a while for the ProFile to reach operating speed. Until the red light is on solidly, do not start your Lisa - wait until you get a solid light before turning it on. That should solve at least some of your problems. >Are there disk images of the boot disks available anywhere? I gather there >is a program on the Apple site >ftp://mirror.apple.com/mirrors/info-mac/disk/dart-153.hqx that will let you >create them, but I haven't had any luck searching. I would almost assume >they are on a Apple server somewhere since pre-System 7.1 MacOS, and the OS >for the Apple II is there. You should be able to get them, but I am afraid I know not where. However I had heard that Sun Remarketing had the OS for the Lisa, including the original Office 7/7, or whatever it was called. You should perhaps contact them. Adam. From marvin at rain.org Tue Sep 16 01:10:01 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems References: Message-ID: <341E22B9.95CD75EA@rain.org> Adam Jenkins wrote: > I've got one of these too - beautiful computers, wonderfully engineered. > > >Opening up the case I saw one problem the four batteries need > replacement, > >and are starting to corrode. Any idea's on where replacements can be > found? > > Always check for this. A very common problem is that the batteries corrode > > and kill the motherboard. Once the batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be cleaned AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems later on. I have seen a number of cases where the battery leaked and the area was cleaned up without neutralizing. Looks fine until a couple of years later when things start getting flaky and finally die. A close look will usually show the area where there USED to be traces! I usually use Muriatic Acid as it does a good job of neutralizing without damaging the circuitry or the solder joints. BTW, I only use a few drops straight muriatic acid (= 33% HCl) and after all the foaming stops, rinse it well with water trying to only get water on the affected area (makes drying easier). I use tap water but DI or distilled water is best since it won't leave a residue when it evaporates. A thorough drying follows. From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Sep 16 04:50:14 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Are there disk images of the boot disks available anywhere? I gather there >>is a program on the Apple site >>ftp://mirror.apple.com/mirrors/info-mac/disk/dart-153.hqx that will let you >>create them, but I haven't had any luck searching. I would almost assume >>they are on a Apple server somewhere since pre-System 7.1 MacOS, and the OS >>for the Apple II is there. > >You should be able to get them, but I am afraid I know not where. However I >had heard that Sun Remarketing had the OS for the Lisa, including the >original Office 7/7, or whatever it was called. You should perhaps contact >them. So far as I know, they are not available on any archive site, Apple or otherwise. They were, however, on a couple of Apple Developer or Support CD-ROMS along with all of the then-existant OS's. A couple months back, another netter sent me a copy of all the DART disk images. This covered the Lisa 7/7 OS and applications, the Mac XL software, and the Lisa Migration Kit. IIRC, another CD-ROM also had the images for the Lisa Workbench and compilers, but they were not on this person's ROM. If you want, I will forward you a copy via seperate cover. Can you deal with MIME-encoded attachments? <> From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Sep 16 07:27:06 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Model 100 Schematics In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970915192211.826755e4@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970916082706.009ecc30@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Uncle Roger said: >There's also the m100 mailing list, if you're not already on it. Kinda >quiet, but in the past had lots of good info. It's hosted at Northernway >(Roger Merchberger (which I'm sure I've misspelled) runs it now) and I'll >bet you're going to ask for the address.... Send a message to > with subscribe in the subject (I think) >and a blank message to sign up. The reason it's quiet is cause everybody whispers when they're on the list! ;-) Anyway, Roger's right (and he even did spell my name right!) on how to subscribe to the message, but there's other ways! For those of you who are a-scared of mailing messages to the listserver, I have a handy-dandy forms-based web page you can use to subscribe/unsubscribe to the listserver... here it is: http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/signupform.html I also host a Tandy Model 600 listserver as well... we _need_ more people on here! If y'all have (or want, or are just interested in) the Tandy 600, go here: http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/signupm600.html or send a message to m600-request@list.northernway.net with subscribe in the subject of the list. If you wish to request help (it's the same help message for both lists) just send a message with the word "help" in the subject to one of the above -request addresses. Help on the commands and capabilities of the listserver will be mailed to you. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Sep 16 07:47:05 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: FT: DEC Rainbow 100, printers In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970915192157.6c0f55c0@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > looks like a typewriter without the keys. (I'd go look at it to get the > model, but I'm supposed to be working... 8^) > Right! That never stopped ME before... From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Sep 16 07:51:54 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Buy and Sell Antiques and Collectib In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970915192258.0bc78c46@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > > If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please > > If a reply actually reaches a valid address, you may indeed be removed from > *this* advertiser's mailings. However, you will have provided the spam > facilitator with a valid address for his other customers... > Which is why you attach about 10 meg worth of *.core files! (Or a few hundred copies of THEIR spam! cc this to their postmaster, and sometimes they lose their account for spamming.) The first is fun, the second CAN be more fun, unless postmaster is a wuss that lets his users abuse email. From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Sep 16 08:20:45 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Info wanted, Congruent/Uniys machines Message-ID: <199709161320.IAA04882@sunflower.com> It should be Convergent, Sperry, or Unisys. these boxes run CTOS/BTOS a VERY prioparatary OS that the only this series uses. If you need any help, I'll try, it's been 5 years since I touched one, but I used to run a 600 user network of them. ---------- > From: Alan Richards > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Info wanted, Congruent/Uniys machines > Date: Monday, September 15, 1997 11:08 PM > > At 07:12 PM 15/09/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > > I have a couple of systems given to me by an accountant friend. They > >bear a > >"Congruent" name plate, but the actual name on the S/N - Model # plate, > >is > >Unisys. At least one of them is a model CJ-5330-A12. While he was using > > > "Congruent"? I know Unisys aquired "Convergent" (in '88 i think) but I've > never heard of "Congruent". How old are these systems? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS > The Man From D.A.D > ---------------------------------------------------------------- From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Sep 16 08:27:03 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Rescue needed!!! Message-ID: <199709161325.IAA05132@sunflower.com> Do we have someone in the Carolinas that can contact this person and get these, I would LOVE one. I have emailed him saying will wil try to get someone out. But I havent heard a response. Bill G. Subject: Apple ///s FREE! From: chernoff@hargray.com (John David Rose) Date: 1997/09/15 Message-Id: Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.usergroups [More Headers] We have five working, plus two for parts, Apple /// computers, complete with all utility disks, drivers, documentation, Cobol, Pascall, Basic, Word Juggler, Visicalc, Micro-Terminal programs, plus back-issues of "On-Three" magazine, plus three working impact printers. We hate to throw working equipment away. Can some computer tech school, lab, anyone take these off our hands before we simply have to junk them? Located in South Carolina. Send E mail message of interest to J.D. Rose at chernoff@hargray.com. thanks From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Tue Sep 16 08:39:37 1997 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: MicroVAX II or PDP 11? References: <9709151301.AA06099@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <341E8C19.1A2E4DCC@coleg-powys.ac.uk> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > If it runs VMS, it's a VAX! > > The CPU box probably had the power supply fail at some time in the > past, and was apparently replaced with a box that had originally > been an 11/83 - that's all. > Thanks for your reply - it is just the badge which confused me. All I have to do now is to find a network card for it in the UK which someone doesn't want ;-) -- Regards Pete #include From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Tue Sep 16 09:04:03 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: MV-II or PDP? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970916070403.00e85770@mail.wizards.net> You wrote... >I have just got a 'new' computer over the weekend. It was advertised as >a MicroVAX II with 2xRA81, 8Mb, and tape drive. >It has VMS 5.x on one of the RA81s and Ultrix on the other. It looks >like the picture in the Digital manuals of a MicroVAX II 630 (tall rack >unit with RA81 at top and bottom with the processor modules in between), >however it was only when I got it home that I saw the badge above the >On/Off switch which says "Digital PDP11/83". It's a MicroVAX II. MicroPDP's cannot boot or run VMS (that I know of) due to a different CPU. What's most likely happened is, somewhere along the line, somebody had a PDP-11/83 in that box, then pulled out the CPU and memory cards and replaced them with MicroVAX equivalents. You can easily do this, as the box, power supply, and backplane are compatible with either CPU. As an example: If I were to pull some spare 11/73 cards out of my stash, and replace the MV-II boards in my VAXStation II/GPX with them, said VAXStation would suddenly become an 11/73. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 16 12:54:45 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Altair scans update Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2062B7A2E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Whatever happened to these? thanks Kai > ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr.[SMTP:rcini@classic.msn.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 5:31 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair scans update > > For those who have asked... > > The Altair scans are ready to post, I just have to ZIP them up and > send the > tape to Bill Whitson. Does anyone have his physical address?? > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Rich Cini/WUGNET > > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking > From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Sep 16 12:54:37 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Fw: No more Free Apple ///s Message-ID: <199709161757.MAA15580@sunflower.com> at least they werent trashed. ---------- > From: John David Rose > To: thedm@sunflower.com > Cc: quantum@telis.org; ;;;jimw@agora.rdrop.com;; ;;;jbcole@ix.netcom.com;; ;;;towad@aol.com;; ;;;Zhiyuan@world.net.att.net;; ;;;Yertzell@worldnet.att.net;; ;;;warpig@mindspring.com;; ;;;peterb@revealed.net;; ;;;jac@openix.com;; ;;;glee@millcomm.com;; ;;;MichaelGoe@aol.com;; ;;;gmast@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu;; ;;;shack@frii.com;; ;;;tnguyen@UDel.Edu;; ;;;bucho@magpage.com; > Subject: No more Free Apple ///s > Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 12:50 PM > > Thank you for your response and interest in the Apple ///s. We received an > immediate response from a school for disadvantaged youngsters within an > hours drive of our office. They have already come and picked up the gear, > and they have a greatly experienced computer guy to help them set them up. > Sorry, but great for them. > > JD > From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Tue Sep 16 12:33:52 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Fw: No more Free Apple ///s Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970916173352.00862c5c@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Can't think of a better or more deserving place for them, maybe these kids will grow up to appreciate computers as wonderful tools rather than the 'appliances' the industry would try to push on us. At 12:54 PM 16/09/97 -0500, you wrote: >at least they werent trashed. > >---------- >> From: John David Rose >> To: thedm@sunflower.com >> Cc: quantum@telis.org; ;;;jimw@agora.rdrop.com;; >;;;jbcole@ix.netcom.com;; ;;;towad@aol.com;; ;;;Zhiyuan@world.net.att.net;; >;;;Yertzell@worldnet.att.net;; ;;;warpig@mindspring.com;; >;;;peterb@revealed.net;; ;;;jac@openix.com;; ;;;glee@millcomm.com;; >;;;MichaelGoe@aol.com;; ;;;gmast@polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu;; >;;;shack@frii.com;; ;;;tnguyen@UDel.Edu;; ;;;bucho@magpage.com; >> Subject: No more Free Apple ///s >> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 12:50 PM >> >> Thank you for your response and interest in the Apple ///s. We received >an >> immediate response from a school for disadvantaged youngsters within an >> hours drive of our office. They have already come and picked up the >gear, >> and they have a greatly experienced computer guy to help them set them >up. >> Sorry, but great for them. >> >> JD ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 16 20:08:20 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Lost Buys Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970917010820.00675ea8@pop3.concentric.net> Well it happened again I walked into the place today as far the eye could see there apples, mac II's, 19 inch apple mono moniters, vax units, hp vectra's, and lots of other items all sold or on hold at 5 bucks each. It all came in Monday afternoon after I left around 12:30pm. They say that another truck load will be in later this week and may camp out. Monday I did get a Polymorphic System 8813 with keyboard, a Zenith model 14ZdC3, HP III laser, and a Bernoullibox II all for $5 each. Well back to testing the units from last week. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 17 01:21:36 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>The button above the keyboard jack doesn't seem to function properly, it >>lights up, but I can't turn the computer off using it, it simply resets it. > >Are you running it as a Mac XL or as a Lisa? Again, this is a common >problem with the XL OS, and occurs on mine. Although not wise, I found >switching it off at the power supply was the only solution. It does seem >to work while booting up though - just not while in the OS. It's a Lisa, the problem turned out to be not having an OS installed. I'm happy to say that problem has been solved. >Note that it takes a while for the ProFile to reach operating speed. Until >the red light is on solidly, do not start your Lisa - wait until you get a >solid light before turning it on. That should solve at least some of your >problems. Yes, apparently it should even be given a little while after going solid. I don't know for sure, as I've not powered it on with everything working right yet. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 17 01:27:13 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems) In-Reply-To: <341E22B9.95CD75EA@rain.org> References: Message-ID: >Adam Jenkins wrote: >Once the batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be cleaned >AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems later >on. I have seen a number of cases where the battery leaked and the area was >cleaned up without neutralizing. Looks fine until a couple of years later >when things start getting flaky and finally die. A close look will usually >show the area where there USED to be traces! I usually use Muriatic Acid >as it does a good job of neutralizing without damaging the circuitry or the >solder joints. BTW, I only use a few drops straight muriatic acid (= 33% >HCl) and after all the foaming stops, rinse it well with water trying to >only get water on the affected area (makes drying easier). I use tap water >but DI or distilled water is best since it won't leave a residue when it >evaporates. A thorough drying follows. This might be a stupid question, but would Baking Soda work for this? I used to work as an Electrician, and had to deal with an UPS that used lead acid batteries, we always used Baking Soda to neutralize the acid. Maybe I'm totally off center on this one, wouldn't surprise me. In any case where can one find Muriatic Acid? It's not one of the Acid's I've heard of. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 17 01:40:01 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems) References: Message-ID: <341F7B40.7019C394@rain.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Once the batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be > cleaned > >AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems later > > This might be a stupid question, but would Baking Soda work for this? I > used to work as an Electrician, and had to deal with an UPS that used lead > > acid batteries, we always used Baking Soda to neutralize the acid. Maybe > I'm totally off center on this one, wouldn't surprise me. > > In any case where can one find Muriatic Acid? It's not one of the Acid's > I've heard of. Muriatic Acid is commonly used for ph adjustment on swimming pools and at least out here in California, we can get it at the larger hardware stores. I've also used some type of liquid flux that was used in plumbing work that was mostly Muriatic Acid and it seemed to work well. Also, Muriatic Acid is just a 33% dilution of Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) according to the labels I've read. I might add that a couple of ounces of the stuff lasted me about 5 years. Since the residue from the batterys is alkaline in nature, Baking Soda wouldn't work as it is also somewhat alkaline. From dhq at juno.com Wed Sep 17 07:25:50 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:01 2005 Subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems) References: <341F7B40.7019C394@rain.org> Message-ID: <19970917.082436.2855.0.dhq@juno.com> On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 23:40:01 -0700 Marvin writes: >Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> >Once the batteries start to corrode and leak, the area needs to be >> cleaned >> >AND neutralized with something acidic in order to prevent problems >later >> >> This might be a stupid question, but would Baking Soda work for >this? I >> used to work as an Electrician, and had to deal with an UPS that >used lead >> >> acid batteries, we always used Baking Soda to neutralize the acid. >Maybe >> I'm totally off center on this one, wouldn't surprise me. >> >> In any case where can one find Muriatic Acid? It's not one of the >Acid's >> I've heard of. > >Muriatic Acid is commonly used for ph adjustment on swimming pools and >at >least out here in California, we can get it at the larger hardware >stores. >I've also used some type of liquid flux that was used in plumbing work >that >was mostly Muriatic Acid and it seemed to work well. Also, Muriatic >Acid is >just a 33% dilution of Hydrochloric Acid (HCl) according to the labels >I've >read. I might add that a couple of ounces of the stuff lasted me about >5 >years. > >Since the residue from the batterys is alkaline in nature, Baking Soda >wouldn't work as it is also somewhat alkaline. > > Hi, You might also want to try a product like "CLR" (calcium, lime and rust remover), it and products like it contain glycolic and phosphoric acids. It works a little slower than Muiratic acid, but it's much safer. BTW: Phosphoric acid finds its' way into many of our food products from cola drinks to bread. Regards, David Quackenbush dhq@juno.com From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Sep 17 07:40:29 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Altair Scans update Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:54:45, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >>Whatever happened to these? Well, I got the Zip disk from my firend and it contained all of what was in my original post (91mb). I made a backup of the disk onto 4mm tape and mailed to Bill Whitson, by now about 3 weeks ago, for him to post on the ftp server. I have not gotten positive confirmation from him whether or not he received the package that I sent (via priority mail). I presume that as soon as he has had a chance to look through the scans to verify the contents, he will post them. If anyone else needs them quicker, contact me off-list and I can arrange to have them sent to you (you provide the media). ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 17 10:11:32 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Dumb Terminals Message-ID: I posted earlier this week about some dumb terminals a guy had for sale cheap. Well, I ended up acquiring the rest of the terminals and cables and stuff because Ralph wanted to get rid of them and couldn't hold onto them anymore. Whoever was working on a deal with Ralph, please e-mail me and I will honor whatever terms you guys came up with. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 17 10:39:02 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems) References: <341F7B40.7019C394@rain.org> <19970917.082436.2855.0.dhq@juno.com> Message-ID: <341FF996.E3760C6D@rain.org> David H Quackenbush wrote: > Hi, > You might also want to try a product like "CLR" (calcium, lime and rust > remover), it and products like it contain glycolic and phosphoric acids. > It works a little slower than Muiratic acid, but it's much safer. BTW: > Phosphoric acid finds its' way into many of our food products from cola > drinks to bread. I'm not familar with glycolic acid but something in the back of my mind says that phosphoric acid will attack either the copper or the solder. My primary concern is to remove the battery residue without doing any additional harm to the circuit board or components. Since you mention safety, I am *assuming* in this whole discussion that the user if familar with how to handle this stuff safely. The reasons I only use *drops* of the muriatic acid are 1) you don't need much more than a few drops to neutralize the residue, and 2) it is safer to use since if spilt, a small amount of water will dilute it to the point where it is not hazardous. Good point to mention though! From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Sep 17 10:46:16 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Possible SGI rescue in LA In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970915192211.826755e4@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: I just spotted the following message on comp.sys.sgi.hardware. The 3130 and 3120 are among the last of the 68020-based SGI systems, while the 4D/70 and 4D/60 are MIPS R2000-based. If anyone in LA can arrange a rescue but can't find homes for all 5, I'm interested in at least one of these (particularly the 3130), provided that shipping to Chicago could be arranged. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu --begin included news posting-- Subject: SGI Boatanchors: 50$ For all Keywords: 4d/70 4d/60 3130 Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:05:44 GMT Sender: dgidez@netcom.netcom.com I have the following systems, 50$ takes all provided you pick them ALL up and move them by yourself: Working: 2 - SGI 4D/70 1 - SGI 3130 Non Working: 1 - SGI 4D/60 (Needs Hard Drive) 1 - SGI 3120 (really not tested) Addtional Items: 3 - 19" Monitors Color (Working) Irix for all machines on 1/4 tape Manuals for the 3130s Systems Located in Los Angeles Email to: dgidez@netcom.com PS. Depending on when you pick them up, I may be willing to waive the 50$ in exchange for one 1mile move of 4 small boxes and a table (no guarantees though)... From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Sep 17 12:34:21 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: FW: Fellow seeking SOLace Message-ID: <34201419.177480032@mail.boeing.com> Saw this on Usenet, figured this would be the best place to lead him. Please reply direct if you can help. And no, I couldn't resist the pun. ;-) -=-=- -=-=- I am searching for a working SOL-10 or SOL-20 computer manufactured by Processor Technology. I am also looking for the Helios II disk drive unit and any software/manuals/cassettes which you may have. Very seriously interested. Jordan email to: rudermanjp@thegrid.net -=-=- From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Sep 17 17:17:28 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM Convertible Parts Needed and other Nifties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Received some fun free things today. I got an IBM Convertible that works but appears to have no ports for things like printers, serial, etc. What info can anyone give me about this machine and does anyone have the expansion chassis that apparently plugs on the back? I also received two Commodore SFD-1001 drives (the IEEE-488 things that look like a 1541). Anyone have an IEEE adapter for a C64, etc? Thanks... Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 17 17:28:12 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM Convertible Parts Needed and other Nifties In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > Received some fun free things today. I got an IBM Convertible that works > but appears to have no ports for things like printers, serial, etc. What > info can anyone give me about this machine and does anyone have the > expansion chassis that apparently plugs on the back? I have a couple different modules for that machine. It's a ridiculous contraption because, depending on how many add-ons you have plugged in, you could end up with a 2 foot long "lap-top". I'll check if I have any documentation for the thing. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Sep 17 17:47:03 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM Convertible Parts Needed and other Nifties Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2062B7EFA@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> There are a number of modules that plug into the PC Convertible. It's analogous to the PCjr "sidecars". I know that the following units exist: 1) a serial/parallel module; 2) a composite video output module for the PC Convertible Monitor; 3) a printer module; and 4) the battery module. Kai > ---------- > From: Anthony Clifton[SMTP:wirehead@retrocomputing.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 3:17 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: IBM Convertible Parts Needed and other Nifties > > > Received some fun free things today. I got an IBM Convertible that > works > but appears to have no ports for things like printers, serial, etc. > What > info can anyone give me about this machine and does anyone have the > expansion chassis that apparently plugs on the back? > > I also received two Commodore SFD-1001 drives (the IEEE-488 things > that > look like a 1541). Anyone have an IEEE adapter for a C64, etc? > > Thanks... > > Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime > From wpe at interserv.com Tue Sep 16 18:33:51 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: help request sent last night re: Unisys/wrong name systems Message-ID: <341F175F.C600D698@interserv.com> Sorry all... Due to a cramp in brain cell #2, Convergent came out as Congruent... Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Sep 17 19:10:09 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (kyrrin2@wizards.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: RESCUE NEEDED! PDP-11/34 Message-ID: <342c70f8.856658289@mail.wizards.net> Folks in the area of the University of Pennsylvania may be interested in the fact that there's a PDP-11/34 with loads o' goodies that needs rescue. Contact the person directly, please. I've included the text of their post to Usenet. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews69!Supernews73!supernews.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!globalcenter1!news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!europa.clark.net!207.172.3.52!feed1.news.erols.com!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!cattell.psych.upenn.edu!nachmias From: nachmias@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Jacob Nachmias) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: PDP11/34 available Date: 14 Sep 1997 23:18:48 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Department of Psychology Lines: 92 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <5vhrco$uu7$1@netnews.upenn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cattell.psych.upenn.edu Xref: Supernews69 alt.sys.pdp11:2426 The assembled systgem is functioning perfectly. I am abandoning it in favor of newer computers. If you are interested in any part of it, plese send me e-mail or call. Jacob Nachmias nachmias@psych.upenn.edu 215 898-7523 ........................................................................ The following is mounted in one 7 ft DEC rack: +++Modules in PDP11/34 processor box+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M7524-7 M7856 M7859 M9202-3 MB265-7 MS11L128KW +++Modules in expansion box++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M7860 (3 boards) M7865 )2 boards) M7025 ++++Also one RK05 and one RKO5J I have manuals and engineering drawings for all of the above. In addition, I have several RKO5 diskpacks, a mountick rack for same, and numberous spare boards, as follows: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ M N7210 M8293 G938 M7257 M7254-6 M7680 M234 M9970 M7701 M7211 M920 M7702 M827 G180 MDB205905 G180 M792YB M7681 M7856 16K MOS UNIBUS MEMORY (4 boards) DEC P/N H-222A, SIZE 16K X 18 (375) (4 boards) M7700 G938 M7800YA M7720 LA36MPC M7860 M7728 A38MPC M7727 READ/WRITE CONTROL LA36 POWER BOARD (2 boards) M7856 (4 boards) KD11E-A CONTROL M7860 M8267 11/34 FLOATING POINT OPTION M7859 MB265 KD11EA DATA PATH DIGITAL PATHWAYS TCU100 M7762 RL11 CONTROLLER MD312 The following items are also available: RKO5J - partly cannibalized a second 7ft DEC rack 4 assorted DACs, 1 A/D unit, external (2K) buffer memory, 2 programmable attenuators (64 db in .5 db steps). 2 pulse generators/clocks 2 delay generators 1 LA50 printer Hewlett Packard 7221 (5 pen graphics plotter) (sofware to run it can be supplied) -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid -- kyrrin2-At-Wizards-Dot-Net "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Sep 17 19:09:13 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Good week Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970918000913.0066370c@pop3.concentric.net> Hi everyone Had a good week so far and picked 8 Mac plus units for those of you who e-mailed me for one. I will go back and look at the date and time on each e-mail and contact you in that order to see if you are still interested in a unit. I also got 2 SE's with the 20 meg HD, one is the SE FDHD unit M5011 Vs the SE M5010 they even look different across the front. Got 2 SE's with just floppy drives. 2 apple 800k ext FD units M0131; 2 Hayes microcoupler units; 1 SummaSketch unit wit pen and power supply; IBM 8507 19' mono vga unit; Apple extended KBII; Triplet model 601 solid state v-o-m; 2 digital DECserver100's and 1 model 300 with manuals and software; CMS ext tape cartridge unit; EICO oscilloscope model 460; Panasonic video monitor model WV-950; and last a Catamount Ministreamer magnetic transport tape drie unit model 1052. And the weekend is not even close for my long trips out to the small towns. I'm doing my part to save as much as I can from the scrape bin. Keep computing ! From dhq at juno.com Wed Sep 17 19:34:45 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Leaky Batteries (was: Lisa 2/5 Startup Problems) References: <341FF996.E3760C6D@rain.org> Message-ID: <19970917.203323.6375.0.dhq@juno.com> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:39:02 -0700 Marvin writes: >David H Quackenbush wrote: > >> Hi, >> You might also want to try a product like "CLR" (calcium, lime and >rust >> remover), it and products like it contain glycolic and phosphoric >acids. >> It works a little slower than Muiratic acid, but it's much safer. >BTW: >> Phosphoric acid finds its' way into many of our food products from >cola >> drinks to bread. > >I'm not familar with glycolic acid but something in the back of my >mind says >that phosphoric acid will attack either the copper or the solder. My >primary concern is to remove the battery residue without doing any >additional harm to the circuit board or components. Since you mention >safety, I am *assuming* in this whole discussion that the user if >familar >with how to handle this stuff safely. The reasons I only use *drops* >of the >muriatic acid are 1) you don't need much more than a few drops to >neutralize >the residue, and 2) it is safer to use since if spilt, a small amount >of >water will dilute it to the point where it is not hazardous. Good >point to >mention though! > > > I don't think that the concentration of phosphoric acid in these cleaning products presents any danger to PC boards, they are also used to de-lime drip and perc coffee makers. Usually white vinegar will suffice or even a can of Coke or Pepsi, but then you have to wash the board with water to get the sugar off of it. :) Muriatic acid is a good choice when the other products don't work, it's inexpensive and as you said; easy to dilute and won't gobble up the other parts on the board. Regards, David Q. dhq@juno.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Sep 17 21:28:00 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM Convertible Parts Needed and other Nifties Message-ID: <970917220214_1229939524@emout08.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-09-17 21:37:24 EDT, Mr Clifton put forth: << Received some fun free things today. I got an IBM Convertible that works but appears to have no ports for things like printers, serial, etc. What info can anyone give me about this machine and does anyone have the expansion chassis that apparently plugs on the back? >> I also have a pc convertible. pretty neat little machine. it had nothing built-in except for a modem, or at least mine does. ports were added by means on "wedges" you plugged in at the back of the machine. I have the serial/parallel adaptor as well as some kind of rca output video and pcjr style video output plugs. recently i just picked up the pc convertible printer that also attached to the back of the machine. my battery is bad, and my ac adaptor is dodgy so i need to fix that before i can really play with it. when everything is plugged in, the whole setup is about twice a long as normal, certainly doesnt fit on a desk well. I have the guide to operations, as well as extra floppy drives and a spare lcd. I can provide addtional info if need be. david From gzozman at escape.ca Wed Sep 17 21:59:50 1997 From: gzozman at escape.ca (Grant Zozman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 info needed References: <342c70f8.856658289@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: <34209926.30CB@escape.ca> My second job as a computer programmer put me in front of an IBM 5120. It was a desktop model which incorporated a B&W monitor, keyboard, and two 8" floppy drives in the main cabinet. In addition, there was an optional dual disk drive expansion unit which contained two more 8" floppy drives. This unit was the size of a small filing cabinet, and rolled on casters. There was also a wide carriage dot-matrix IBM printer with it. If I remember correctly, I believe BASIC was in ROM. When the computer accessed the floppy drives, it shut the screen off for timing or speed, resulting in a flashing screen that drove you batty by the end of the day! IBM also produced a model 5110 which I believe was a similar machine to the 5120. The machine was manufactured around 1979, and the only thing it has in common with the original PC is the big red power switch. From what I understood at the time, IBM basically disowned the 5120 when the PC became popular. I would like to approach my former employer to procure this machine for my collection, but have been unable to find any info about it on the web. Does anyone know how common/uncommon these units are? Any other info would be much appreciated. Grant Zozman gzozman@escape.ca From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Sep 17 23:19:19 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 info needed Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970918041919.006803f0@pop3.concentric.net> I have a 5110 cpu unit but had to leave the drive unit and printer behind :( If you can get the 5120 it would be a great find for your collection. The data storage could be either 1.2 M or 2.4 M on the 8" floppies. The machine was announced in March of 1980 and was the successor to the 5100 and was based on the 5110 Model 3. Also Basic and APL are in ROM. Good luck with it. At 09:59 PM 9/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >My second job as a computer programmer put me in front of an IBM 5120. >It was a desktop model which incorporated a B&W monitor, keyboard, and >two 8" floppy drives in the main cabinet. > >In addition, there was an optional dual disk drive expansion unit which >contained two more 8" floppy drives. This unit was the size of a small >filing cabinet, and rolled on casters. > >There was also a wide carriage dot-matrix IBM printer with it. > >If I remember correctly, I believe BASIC was in ROM. When the computer >accessed the floppy drives, it shut the screen off for timing or speed, >resulting in a flashing screen that drove you batty by the end of the >day! IBM also produced a model 5110 which I believe was a similar >machine to the 5120. The machine was manufactured around 1979, and the >only thing it has in common with the original PC is the big red power >switch. From what I understood at the time, IBM basically disowned the >5120 when the PC became popular. > >I would like to approach my former employer to procure this machine for >my collection, but have been unable to find any info about it on the >web. Does anyone know how common/uncommon these units are? Any other >info would be much appreciated. > >Grant Zozman >gzozman@escape.ca > > > From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Sep 18 07:32:41 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 Message-ID: On Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:59:50 Grant Zozman wrote: >>My second job as a computer programmer put me in front of an IBM 5120. >>It was a desktop model which incorporated a B&W monitor, keyboard, and >>two 8" floppy drives in the main cabinet. Sounds like an early Datamaster to me. I have a Datamaster (5123), but it has a green-screen, not a B&W one. Otherwise the description matches. As I understand the Datamaster, it really was the predecessor to the PC. It was desktop based, although you needed a large desk . It had an ISA-like bus into which you could plug-in cards. My guess, from talking to someone who worked on the project, that it was a business machine (A/P, billing, word processing, etc.) that fell out of favor when IBM introduced the PC in 1981. The PC was 1/3 the size, probably 1/4 the weight, much faster, and used 5-1/4" diskettes. There are several Datamaster owners here who can fill in more about the actual specs. I don't use mine much because I have a blown ROM chip that prevents me from booting... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Sep 18 07:32:49 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: PDP 11/34 rescue Message-ID: Already on this one...picking it up 10/3. I found out about it through my contact at Temple University. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking ============================== Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 00:10:09 GMT From: kyrrin2@wizards.net To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: RESCUE NEEDED! PDP-11/34 Message-ID: <342c70f8.856658289@mail.wizards.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks in the area of the University of Pennsylvania may be interested in the fact that there's a PDP-11/34 with loads o' goodies that needs rescue. Contact the person directly, please. I've included the text of their post to Usenet. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Sep 18 14:05:56 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 Message-ID: <9708188746.AA874617013@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >>>My second job as a computer programmer put me in front of an IBM 5120. >>>It was a desktop model which incorporated a B&W monitor, keyboard, and >>>two 8" floppy drives in the main cabinet. > > Sounds like an early Datamaster to me. I have a Datamaster (5123), but it has > a green-screen, not a B&W one. Otherwise the description matches. Interesting. My datamaster is a 5322, and calls itself System/23. It doesn't match the 5120 description except in the eight-inch drives. In particular it does not blank the screen (that I recall) during I/O. The screen is green; the keyboard is built into the system unit but looks very like an early PC keyboard. A brief speculation on IBM numbering. 5123 is probably a derivative of 5120 in some sense. 5322, on the other hand, looks like a variety of System/32 (the 5320). System/32 begat System/34 (5340) begat System/36 (5360 = large, 5362 = desk side, 5364 = dekstop) begat AS/400 (I think). System/38 also fits in there somewhere (5380) so you would expect a System/23 to be called 5230. > As I understand the Datamaster, it really was the predecessor to the PC. It > was desktop based, although you needed a large desk . It had an ISA-like Nonsense! I've got mine on a very small desk! However, system unit and printer between them take up the whole desk. > bus into which you could plug-in cards. My guess, from talking to someone who > worked on the project, that it was a business machine (A/P, billing, word > processing, etc.) that fell out of favor when IBM introduced the PC in 1981. It was indeed. There were two video options, Data Processing and Word Processing. The DP video card had one byte per screen character, the WP card having two. The difference to the user was that on the WP you could set the attributes (blink, underline, intensify, inverse video) for each character individually; on the DP model you used up a character space to make the change, which then took effect until another attribute code appeared further down the screen. Mine, being a DP model, came with some sort of accounting application that I've never used. CPU was an 8085, using bank switching to access 128k each of RAM and ROM. Very slow. The large ROM, though, had almost a complete mainframe basic with matrix operations and all sorts. Character code was EBCDIC, unlike the PC. What did 5100 use? > The PC was 1/3 the size, probably 1/4 the weight, much faster, and used 5-1/4" > diskettes. And less than 1/4 the price. The previous owner of my datamaster paid L11000 for it in 1980. The PC when it came out in the UK (1983?) was L2399 I think. > There are several Datamaster owners here who can fill in more about the > actual specs. I don't use mine much because I have a blown ROM chip that > prevents me from booting... I was hoping that one of those hand-held machine EPROMS advertised here a few weeks ago might act as a replacement. (No, I haven't forgotten!) Philip. From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Sep 18 10:34:19 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM Convertible Parts Needed and other Nifties In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2282830E2200@ifrsys.com> > > I also received two Commodore SFD-1001 drives (the IEEE-488 things that ^^^^^^^^ Yow! Such a score! 1Mb FD storage for Commodores! These are pretty scarce, by my estimation; commodore hacks find these most desirable. > look like a 1541). Anyone have an IEEE adapter for a C64, etc? You know, these sometimes show up for sale in comp.sys.cbm, but they too are VERY scarce. I have been searching for something similar but even more rare: IEEE-488 for the VIC-20! These beasties exist, but I have never actually seen one. J. Kaneko > > Thanks... > > Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime > > From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 18 15:27:06 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Old Computers Auction? References: <9708188746.AA874617013@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <34218E9A.2709FFC@rain.org> Since the last auction, I have been checking http://members.aol.com/mtpro/index.html to see what kind of activity was taking place. Either there is no activity or the page is not being updated, don't know which. They have a Sol-20 there for a starting bid of $350. This machine is is tested and working but apparently doesn't include anything except the processor. I recently saw another Sol (don't know the model) that sold for $456 but included disks, manuals, disk drive, etc. From rector at christcom.net Thu Sep 18 17:18:30 1997 From: rector at christcom.net (Daniel E. Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 References: <9708188746.AA874617013@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3421A8B6.26EA@christcom.net> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > A brief speculation on IBM numbering. 5123 is probably a derivative of > 5120 in some sense. 5322, on the other hand, looks like a variety of > System/32 (the 5320). System/32 begat System/34 (5340) begat System/36 > (5360 = large, 5362 = desk side, 5364 = dekstop) begat AS/400 (I think). > System/38 also fits in there somewhere (5380) so you would expect a > System/23 to be called 5230. Close but it went S/32, S/34, S/38 -> AS/400 and S/36 -> AS/400 The System/36 was a completely different line and incompatable with the S/38. It was also developed after the S/38 (1983 compared to 1978 I believe). The AS/400 is based on S/38 hardware but has the capability to run S/36 software. (Actually the new AS/400's can be configed to run as a S/36 actually running the S/36 operating system.) - Dan Rector email: rector@usa.net From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Sep 18 17:38:18 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 info needed Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970918223818.00663658@pop3.concentric.net> third time trying to send this message ? I have a 5110 cpu unit but had to leave the drive unit and printer behind :( If you can get the 5120 it would be a great find for your collection. The data storage could be either 1.2 M or 2.4 M on the 8" floppies. The machine was announced in March of 1980 and was the successor to the 5100 and was based on the 5110 Model 3. Also Basic and APL are in ROM. Good luck with it. At 09:59 PM 9/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >My second job as a computer programmer put me in front of an IBM 5120. >It was a desktop model which incorporated a B&W monitor, keyboard, and >two 8" floppy drives in the main cabinet. > >In addition, there was an optional dual disk drive expansion unit which >contained two more 8" floppy drives. This unit was the size of a small >filing cabinet, and rolled on casters. > >There was also a wide carriage dot-matrix IBM printer with it. > >If I remember correctly, I believe BASIC was in ROM. When the computer >accessed the floppy drives, it shut the screen off for timing or speed, >resulting in a flashing screen that drove you batty by the end of the >day! IBM also produced a model 5110 which I believe was a similar >machine to the 5120. The machine was manufactured around 1979, and the >only thing it has in common with the original PC is the big red power >switch. From what I understood at the time, IBM basically disowned the >5120 when the PC became popular. > >I would like to approach my former employer to procure this machine for >my collection, but have been unable to find any info about it on the >web. Does anyone know how common/uncommon these units are? Any other >info would be much appreciated. > >Grant Zozman >gzozman@escape.ca > > > From dastar at crl.com Fri Sep 19 00:05:30 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Kaypro I & 4+88 software Message-ID: I have a friend that needs software for a Kaypro I and a 4+88 (I have never heard of this but he says he has one). Would Don Maslin have the system disks for these beasts? Or anyone else? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Sep 19 08:47:30 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: IBM 5120 Message-ID: <9708198746.AA874684334@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > A brief speculation on IBM numbering. 5123 is probably a derivative of > > 5120 in some sense. 5322, on the other hand, looks like a variety of > > System/32 (the 5320). System/32 begat System/34 (5340) begat System/36 > > (5360 = large, 5362 = desk side, 5364 = dekstop) begat AS/400 (I think). > > System/38 also fits in there somewhere (5380) so you would expect a > > System/23 to be called 5230. > > Close but it went S/32, S/34, S/38 -> AS/400 and S/36 -> AS/400 > The System/36 was a completely different line and incompatable with the > S/38. It was also developed after the S/38 (1983 compared to 1978 I > believe). The AS/400 is based on S/38 hardware but has the capability to > run S/36 software. (Actually the new AS/400's can be configed to run as > a S/36 actually running the S/36 operating system.) Interesting. I only once (I think) ever used a System/38, so I was not very familiar with it. But I used a S/34 a lot, and when I had to write software for a PC front end to a S/36, found the S/36 very similar from the user interface point of view. Also, the 5360 looked physically like a more modern 5340, complete with an updated version of my favourite floppy drive (23 disks in one drive!). Alas, I never found out what became of the old 5340 that I worked on (this was as a student before university) - when I went back for a vacation job, it had gone, and all the software had been moved to, you guessed it, another 5340! I also once posted to a newsgroup within IBM, "Is there a similar group for 5300 series minicomputers" which received the inexplicable reply, "The system/38 isn't a minicomputer." (The S/34 and S/36, in which I was interested, certainly were, so why wasn't the S/38? On the other hand, the PC graphics terminals 537X weren't.) The group did exist, but I never read it much in the end. Still, enough reminiscing. Does anyone know if there are any S/34 or even S/32 machines still around? I once had a short e-mail exchange with someone who might have been going to acquire a S/34 but AFAIK he never managed it. Philip. From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Sep 19 05:03:27 1997 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Old Computers Auction? In-Reply-To: <34218E9A.2709FFC@rain.org> Message-ID: <199709191503.KAA17106@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> The page isn't being updated and they haven't answered any of the emails I've sent. I'd say they are having some trouble with their auction. I'd like a Sol but didn't know if $350 for the base unit was a good deal or not. Now if it had manuals, software, etc... Where did you see this other Sol that sold for $456? > Since the last auction, I have been checking > http://members.aol.com/mtpro/index.html to see what kind of activity > was taking place. Either there is no activity or the page is not > being updated, don't know which. They have a Sol-20 there for a > starting bid of $350. This machine is is tested and working but > apparently doesn't include anything except the processor. I > recently saw another Sol (don't know the model) that sold for $456 > but included disks, manuals, disk drive, etc. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From marvin at rain.org Fri Sep 19 11:11:09 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Sol Computer References: <199709191503.KAA17106@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Message-ID: <3422A41D.8AC2A0B8@rain.org> David Williams wrote: > Where did you see this other Sol that sold for $456? It was listed on the ebay auction at item http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65230. I just checked and the listing is still there along with the person who bought it. I have one but have nothing in the way of docs, manuals, or software and I was bidding on it primarily for those things. I suspect the price would have gone higher but the seller shut down the auction early with only 1 hours notice (that is his right!). At the time it happened, ebay was having a problem and decided to add 3 days to all auctions, hence a number of people held off bidding. But as I told him, it may have saved me some money :). From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Sep 19 06:34:09 1997 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Sol Computer In-Reply-To: <3422A41D.8AC2A0B8@rain.org> Message-ID: <199709191634.LAA22879@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> On 19 Sep 97 at 9:11, Marvin wrote: > It was listed on the ebay auction at item > http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65230. > I just checked and the listing is still there along with the person > who bought it. That's what I get for staying away from ebay for a while. Looks like they changed their look again. Guess he didn't have a problem meeting his $24.95 reserve price. :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From dastar at crl.com Fri Sep 19 12:07:58 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Sol Computer In-Reply-To: <199709191634.LAA22879@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, David Williams wrote: > On 19 Sep 97 at 9:11, Marvin wrote: > > > It was listed on the ebay auction at item > > http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=65230. > > I just checked and the listing is still there along with the person > > who bought it. > > That's what I get for staying away from ebay for a while. Looks like > they changed their look again. Guess he didn't have a problem > meeting his $24.95 reserve price. :-) AuctionWeb is ridiculous. While there are some great finds there, I've realized that whatever I bid on I will end up finding a week or two later locally for a tenth or less of what I bid. The prices for stuff on there are horribly inflated. Here's a trick that I know most everyone has figured out already and is a big reason why online bidding is a sham: Don't bid on the item. That is, not until the last 5-10 minutes of the auction. This serves two purposes that ultimately benefit you. 1) If you bid early, it gives someone a chance to come in and outbid you early, then you will counter-bid, then he will, then you will, etc. You get into a bidding war. 2) If you bid just before the auction is over, you avoid 1). You'll get in with a low-ball bid and hopefully nobody else will get a chance to outbid you in the last remaining minutes, although I've had some close calls. I once bid on an item (forgot what) at the last minute and some character tried to do the same but his bid was late. In the same token, I've had that happen to me where I was just too late. The problem is, if you try to bid just before the auction ends (like within 1-2 minutes of closing) there are about 14 other dweebs like you trying to put in last minute bids. The record in the database for that item becomes so locked up that nobody can make a bid, and your effort is futile. This is the problem with online auctions like AuctionWeb. Its too easy to abuse. The seller usually comes out on the short end of the stick. Bidders wait until the last possible second and put in a bid that's not necessarily fair market value. In real life, the bidding keeps going until one person concedes or passes out. These onlines auctions need to instate some similar format. My idea for improvement would be that anyone who bids in the last few minutes, or perhaps the last 3 bidders, go into a second phase of bidding where they are then pitted against each other and the bidding will go on as long as those participants are willing to keep raising their bids. I was thinking about mandating this on a few items I put up for bid on AuctionWeb, but once I saw that my items (some old common computers and video game systems) were going for far more than I had anticipated, I didn't bother, not caring what bidder ended up with whatever high bid. I just realized this message is horribly off-topic but I just had to complain about something today. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us Fri Sep 19 15:20:18 1997 From: 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us (Greg Piper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Sol Computer References: Message-ID: <3422DE82.4121@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> take me off this fucker From 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us Fri Sep 19 15:20:32 1997 From: 1439pipe at inet.westshore.cc.mi.us (Greg Piper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: HELP! References: Message-ID: <3422DE90.F1A@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> off list NOW From marvin at rain.org Fri Sep 19 17:12:05 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing References: Message-ID: <3422F8B5.E53B029A@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > AuctionWeb, but once I saw that my items (some old common computers and > video game systems) were going for far more than I had anticipated, I > didn't bother, not caring what bidder ended up with whatever high bid. I am starting to find the pricing for *some* of the older computers far more than I had imagined. My suspicions are that the value of the older computers is starting to rise as more and more people starting (finally!) thinking about the history of these things. For instance, I had no idea the Sol would go for the price it did although it seemed very complete. The Old Computer Auction Web had some pricing that I thought high, but I am seeing the same type of thing in other places. I still get given quite a bit of stuff, but it is declining as I see more and more people looking at the 386 as old :). One thing that does deserve some special consideration is the documentation and advertising literature of the 70's and 80's. The other night, I got what appears to be the first Radio Shack advertising brochure for the TRS-80. THIS is the type of thing that is being thrown away without any thought and we need to build some awareness that this stuff is equally a part of history. I have talked to a number of people who told me they cleaned out their files and got rid of this stuff . From dastar at crl.com Fri Sep 19 17:45:05 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing In-Reply-To: <3422F8B5.E53B029A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: > I am starting to find the pricing for *some* of the older computers far more > than I had imagined. My suspicions are that the value of the older > computers is starting to rise as more and more people starting (finally!) > thinking about the history of these things. For instance, I had no idea the That's why I stick to local swap meets and such. I can still find bargains there, and I'm not competing against collectors from all over the country (and the world in some cases). > Sol would go for the price it did although it seemed very complete. The Old > Computer Auction Web had some pricing that I thought high, but I am seeing > the same type of thing in other places. I still get given quite a bit of > stuff, but it is declining as I see more and more people looking at the 386 > as old :). What irks me slightly about the Old Computer Auction Web is their slogan "Setting values for antique computers". They are trying to put themselves in a very lofty position with this slogan. Trying to set the value of ANY collectable is impossible since there are shortages of one thing vs. surpluses of another in different parts of the country or the world. Like, I can go pick up an Apple //e any weekend for $5-$10, whereas someone in Iowa or South Carolina (no offense meant, just trying to pick some states where one wouldn't readily be able to find an Apple //e, I have no clue if these states are appropriate or not) or Europe cannot readily find a //e. Conversely, someone in the UK can easily find a Sinclair Spectrum or someone in France can find an Oric without too much trouble while it would be next to impossible to find one in the states. > One thing that does deserve some special consideration is the documentation > and advertising literature of the 70's and 80's. The other night, I got > what appears to be the first Radio Shack advertising brochure for the > TRS-80. THIS is the type of thing that is being thrown away without any > thought and we need to build some awareness that this stuff is equally a > part of history. I have talked to a number of people who told me they > cleaned out their files and got rid of this stuff . I agree completely. Nobody readily throws out a computer (well, at least some people...I was just talking to a guy who trashed his IMSAI 8080 last year) but manuals and brochures don't even get a first thought. These are the things which, in my opinion, hold the greater value, both monetarily and historically. The brochures and manuals tell a far greater tale than the computers themselves. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Sep 19 18:09:19 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970919230919.0067bcf0@pop3.concentric.net> I agree and have been saving old ads, promotions give away's and the like. My library is very large and contains over 500 books. Keep computing ! At 03:12 PM 9/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >Sam Ismail wrote: > >> AuctionWeb, but once I saw that my items (some old common computers and >> video game systems) were going for far more than I had anticipated, I >> didn't bother, not caring what bidder ended up with whatever high bid. > >I am starting to find the pricing for *some* of the older computers far more >than I had imagined. My suspicions are that the value of the older >computers is starting to rise as more and more people starting (finally!) >thinking about the history of these things. For instance, I had no idea the >Sol would go for the price it did although it seemed very complete. The Old >Computer Auction Web had some pricing that I thought high, but I am seeing >the same type of thing in other places. I still get given quite a bit of >stuff, but it is declining as I see more and more people looking at the 386 >as old :). > >One thing that does deserve some special consideration is the documentation >and advertising literature of the 70's and 80's. The other night, I got >what appears to be the first Radio Shack advertising brochure for the >TRS-80. THIS is the type of thing that is being thrown away without any >thought and we need to build some awareness that this stuff is equally a >part of history. I have talked to a number of people who told me they >cleaned out their files and got rid of this stuff . > > > > From marvin at rain.org Fri Sep 19 19:20:04 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:02 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing References: <1.5.4.32.19970919230919.0067bcf0@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <342316B3.1544989F@rain.org> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > I agree and have been saving old ads, promotions give away's and the like. > > My library is very large and contains over 500 books. Keep computing ! > > >One thing that does deserve some special consideration is the > documentation > >and advertising literature of the 70's and 80's. The other night, I got > >what appears to be the first Radio Shack advertising brochure for the 500 books !?!?! That is quite a collection! I have just recently began actively looking for the old computer books although I have been collecting the manuals, etc. for years. One book I have found fascinating is "The Origins of Digital Computers", a selection of papers by people such as Babbage, Hollerith, Zuse, Aiken, Von Neumann, and other notables. The Bibliography that E. Tedeschi posted a while ago has also been excellent for seeing what books might be useful. From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Sep 19 19:30:46 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing Message-ID: >What irks me slightly about the Old Computer Auction Web is their slogan >"Setting values for antique computers". They are trying to put >themselves in a very lofty position with this slogan. Trying to set the >value of ANY collectable is impossible since there are shortages of one >thing vs. surpluses of another in different parts of the country or the >world. Like, I can go pick up an Apple //e any weekend for $5-$10, >whereas someone in Iowa or South Carolina (no offense meant, just trying >to pick some states where one wouldn't readily be able to find an Apple >//e, I have no clue if these states are appropriate or not) or Europe >cannot readily find a //e. Conversely, someone in the UK can easily find >a Sinclair Spectrum or someone in France can find an Oric without too >much trouble while it would be next to impossible to find one in the states. If you think that is a problem, try collecting in Australia. :) Pretty much no competition for old computers (as far as I know I am one of only two serious collectors in the state), but also almost no systems. Everything seems to be in the US, but here the only common computer seems to be the C64. So the values are horribly confused. On the plus side, and awful lot of people are willing to give away their computers, as there is nothing else to do with them. That's how I got my Lisa, for example. When asked how much I think a given system is worth I invariably find myself in a quandry, as there are very few of them (whatever it may be) but also very, very few collectors. As an example, the Mac 128 I've seen from free to $200, with $50 being the most common, the Apple IIc ranges from $5 (I bought it) to $100, and the Amstrad CPC6128 goes from $7 to $150. All of this in the one city. How do you advise people how much their system is worth in that sort of climate? Mind you, I just picked up (last night) an Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer I for $20 - high, I thought, until you realise that it was new in box, never even plugged in. Adam. From bede0005 at garnet.tc.umn.edu Thu Sep 18 14:39:45 1997 From: bede0005 at garnet.tc.umn.edu (Rob Bedeaux) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Apple III booting Irregularity Message-ID: <199709191920.OAA05885@ted.asap.net> Hi all::: Just acquired an Apple III with 256k ram and a Titan III + IIe board. When I power it up I get a beep and the ram test begins. After this the screeen fills with text, sits for a minute and then goes back to the ram test. If I hit the reset button, it will boot up. Is this normal. If I tried pulling out the Titan cards, but then it doesn't even get that far (Just some hires graphics giberish.) Is the 6502 on the titan board? Finally, I read somewhere that you can replace the 6502 on the titan card with a 65c02 for enhanced //e support. Any ideas if this is fact or fallacy? rob From pcoad at crl.com Fri Sep 19 20:17:25 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing In-Reply-To: <3422F8B5.E53B029A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > AuctionWeb, but once I saw that my items (some old common computers and > > video game systems) were going for far more than I had anticipated, I > > didn't bother, not caring what bidder ended up with whatever high bid. > > I am starting to find the pricing for *some* of the older computers far more > than I had imagined. My suspicions are that the value of the older > computers is starting to rise as more and more people starting (finally!) > thinking about the history of these things. For instance, I had no idea the > Sol would go for the price it did although it seemed very complete. The Old > Computer Auction Web had some pricing that I thought high, but I am seeing > the same type of thing in other places. I still get given quite a bit of > stuff, but it is declining as I see more and more people looking at the 386 > as old :). > While at WeirdStuff today I was talking with the owners. They told me that most people are not willing to pay enough over scrap value to make it worth their time and effort to sell old machines. If you call them looking for specific parts or machines, they will sell them to you, but they scrap old stuff pretty quickly. As soon as the demand becomes great enough to make it worthwhile for stores like WeirdStuff to sell old machines, the prices will be at a level where collecting will become expensive. More machines will be saved from the landfill and scrapers, but then again I won't be adding as many to my collection each year. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Sep 19 21:04:13 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Apple III booting Irregularity Message-ID: <199709200202.VAA04731@sunflower.com> Sounds like just unseated chips, this was very common for this unit, I have 4 myself. Take off the cover and push in all the chips checking for corrosion. After you remove the top you can remove the motherboard on its mounting plate from the bottom. If you pull out the titan cards you also remove the video bios. Unless you have the old chip to replace the chip the cards are attatched to, you can't boot the machine. ---------- > From: Rob Bedeaux > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple III booting Irregularity > Date: Thursday, September 18, 1997 2:39 PM > > Hi all::: > > Just acquired an Apple III with 256k ram and a Titan III + IIe board. > When I power it up I get a beep and the ram test begins. After this the > screeen fills with text, sits for a minute and then goes back to the ram > test. If I hit the reset button, it will boot up. Is this normal. If I > tried pulling out the Titan cards, but then it doesn't even get that far > (Just some hires graphics giberish.) Is the 6502 on the titan board? > Finally, I read somewhere that you can replace the 6502 on the titan card > with a 65c02 for enhanced //e support. Any ideas if this is fact or > fallacy? > > rob From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Sep 19 20:26:19 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Computer Pricing In-Reply-To: <3422F8B5.E53B029A@rain.org> References: Message-ID: >Sam Ismail wrote: > >> AuctionWeb, but once I saw that my items (some old common computers and >> video game systems) were going for far more than I had anticipated, I >> didn't bother, not caring what bidder ended up with whatever high bid. > >I am starting to find the pricing for *some* of the older computers far more >than I had imagined. My suspicions are that the value of the older >computers is starting to rise as more and more people starting (finally!) >thinking about the history of these things. For instance, I had no idea the >Sol would go for the price it did although it seemed very complete. The Old >Computer Auction Web had some pricing that I thought high, but I am seeing >the same type of thing in other places. I still get given quite a bit of >stuff, but it is declining as I see more and more people looking at the 386 >as old :). There definately seem to be some machines which do demand what seem to be disproportionately high prices. The two which come to mind for me are the TRS-80 Model 4P and the Macintosh portable. The former seems to demand prices 2-3 times over the price of Kaypros and even Osbornes of the same era. The latter has almost schizophrenic pricing, varying from near giveaway (which I can never find or always miss) to higher than more capable Powerbooks. It must be something about the word "portable", as I also see some early DOS laptops (Zenith Supersport) get priced out of whack like this. I confess, though, that even though I am a collector, I sometimes don't understand the interest in certain systems, particularly the things we are willing to do to obtain them. Last weekend, I posted a message to this list, looking for homes for several systems. The three which generated the most interest were an Apple //c, an AT&T 3B2/300, and an old Perkin-Elmer Unix micro. I understand the first; Apple //'s are a perennial favorite and the //c is a particularly interesting model. In the case of the P-E, I had someone willing to make a 2-3 hr drive from upstate NY and in the case of the 3B2, I had someone willing to drive down from Boston (6 hrs!). Why? I know what those two systems represented to me... my first and second personal Unix boxes. This was before Linux and FreeBSD were household words, back when the only way to have Unix at home was either to run Xenix (expensive) or run a surplus commercial Unix box. Maybe I'm a curmudgeon, but I just can't see it being worth the 6 hr drive... not just for one computer. >One thing that does deserve some special consideration is the documentation >and advertising literature of the 70's and 80's. The other night, I got >what appears to be the first Radio Shack advertising brochure for the >TRS-80. THIS is the type of thing that is being thrown away without any >thought and we need to build some awareness that this stuff is equally a >part of history. I have talked to a number of people who told me they >cleaned out their files and got rid of this stuff . I agree with you on this one. I was just recently cleaning out my office at work and found (and kept) the original IBM PS/2 catalog (featuring the stars of M*A*S*H) and a whole packet of literature on the Sun 3. <<>> From scottk5 at ibm.net Sat Sep 20 00:56:59 1997 From: scottk5 at ibm.net (Robert Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? References: Message-ID: <342365AB.4E260C5E@ibm.net> There is an abandoned IBM system/38 mini in a nearby tobacco warehouse that I've been offered if I want it. The main unit is in good shape, there *is* one panel missing on the front that accessed the disk drive. It also has a terminal and a printer plotter, and still has the original software on 8" media. Was used to keep a company's books for years, and I don't know if the drives were locked when it was moved. Haven't looked at it that close yet. A little research on the comp.sys.ibm.sys38 newsgroup revealed that the general feeling is that these computers are not worth fooling with, as basically you get a room-sized 8088 in the end. What say ye? Is it worth messing with in your opinion? I'd have to find a place to set it up, and moving it would be a pain. But it would be a stretch for me and the first opportunity for me to mess with a mini. What's the consensus? Kirk Scott scottk5@ibm.net From kuefel at sky.net Sat Sep 20 01:42:42 1997 From: kuefel at sky.net (Mark W Kuefel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Painting/Re-finishing computer cases... References: <341A15FE.1ADF@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <34237062.7077@sky.net> Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > > I just read a newsgroup post about a (somewhat) poor soul who has > gotten a PET 2001 with a rusty case looking for re-finishing/painting > suggestions. > > Thinking about it this is a cool topic for discussion, has anyone > re-painted their computer cases and what tips/suggestions do you have > for us or what should we avoid (also got any good color schemes?). Thinking again, eh? Well we all know what kind of trouble THAT sort of activity can lead to, but since you asked... POWDER COATING Powder coating is way cool. The stuff is damn near indestructable (take my word for it). Many colors are available and it should be fairly inexpensive if you don't mind waiting for them to run a line with the color of your choice and slip your piece in. The process uses an electrostatically charged gun to shoot a polymer pigment (powder) with compressed air to a target charged with the opposite polarity (no VOCs, less material waste). It then runs through an oven to reflux (melt) the powder resulting in a (usually) SMOOTH finish (depending on the surface preparation of the target). Previous finishes should be removed for best results. I usually bead blast them with glass bead media. Obviously this will not work on non-conductive or low melting point materials like plastic. You are also limited to monochromatic, non-mettalic finishes so forget about the metalflake splash graphics if that's your thing. (Disclaimer: Before anyone jumps my ass, this description is highly simplified and slightly inaccurate from a technical standpoint. Meant for general background only but I think you get the picture.) SPRAY PAINTING Nix on Imron. It's iron age technology and more poisonous than swimming pool full of pit vipers. Also REAL tricky to shoot well. A much better choice ,IMNSHO, is DuPont ChromaBase. Available in every color in the rainbow an then some (ever seen a pearled, metalflake, clearcoated rainbow?). This requires spraypainting equipment (preferably HVLP [High Volume Low Pressure]) and, being a polyurethane enamal, respiratory equipment is MANDATORY! Your local bodyshop should be able to do this for a reasonable amount if you lack the proper hardware. Good ones will be able to do about any trick graphics that you can dream up limited only by your imagination and bank account. > I have a few 64s lying around that would look neat > with a custom paint > job, since they are plastic, what do you suggest? For a classic like that, I'd suggest flames. I flamed the frame on my monitor and it gets more looks than a polka dotted Vette. Kids, don't try this one at home but if you do, pull the guts out first (the overspray can play hell with sensitive electronics). And watch out for that big fat red wire ;-). I use DuPont VariPrime acid based self etching primer for the base coat after wiping the case with lacquer thinner to promote surface adhesion. Sticks tighter than an ugly dog. If Hammertone is the thing that feeds your need, you might want to try HammerTite (TM) which is retailed in spray bombs. I did a Kennedy toolbox that was donated my way after the previous owner finished "customizing" it by running it over with his pickup. Not "quite" as good as my other Kennedys in terms of finish but pretty clean for a rattle can job. I'm using it to store my "computer specific" tools after tiring of making all them trips to the garage everytime I wanted to pull a board or solder up some leads. I'm thinking about blowing a couple of lightning bolt accents on the cover of the THE COLISEUM SLAVE one of these days. Might improve my benchmarks some (:-8 (hee, hee, hee) Good luck Larry et al, and good hunting. -- Mark W Kuefel kuefel@sky.net and THE COLISEUM SLAVE (Netwrecker II) From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Sep 20 03:45:16 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Apple III booting Irregularity Message-ID: >Sounds like just unseated chips, this was very common for this unit, I have >4 myself. Take off the cover and push in all the chips checking for >corrosion. After you remove the top you can remove the motherboard on its >mounting plate from the bottom. If you pull out the titan cards you also >remove the video bios. Unless you have the old chip to replace the chip >the cards are attatched to, you can't boot the machine. Apple recommended that when this started to occur, you picked the Apple /// a couple of inches off the table and dropped it to reseat the chips. I'm not suprised that they weren't the success Apple had wanted. :) Adam. From manney at nwohio.com Sat Sep 20 11:21:37 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: C64 Software Message-ID: <199709201628.JAA24930@mx3.u.washington.edu> Just picked up a used (very used) Print Shop for C64. Anyone want? manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.com Sat Sep 20 11:30:24 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: HP-16 emulator Message-ID: <199709201654.JAA24984@mx2.u.washington.edu> Just ran across a Windows emulator for the HP-16 calculator (if you want an RPN calc instead of AOS, this is neat Besides, it does hex, binary and octal calculations.) It's freeware. http://www.teleport.com/~dgh/hpsim.htm#wrpn This is part of the HP calculator museum, which has all kinds of keen stuff, including shots of old slide rules. It's at http://www.teleport.com/~dgh/hpmuseum.html From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Sep 20 12:38:48 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Sol Computer In-Reply-To: <3422DE82.4121@inet.westshore.cc.mi.us> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Greg Piper wrote: > take me off this f***er > Oh yeah...like anyone wants someone like this to stay. :-/ Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From dastar at crl.com Sat Sep 20 12:34:06 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? In-Reply-To: <342365AB.4E260C5E@ibm.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Robert Kirk Scott wrote: > at it that close yet. A little research on the comp.sys.ibm.sys38 > newsgroup revealed that the general feeling is that these computers are > not worth fooling with, as basically you get a room-sized 8088 in the > end. What say ye? Is it worth messing with in your opinion? I'd have to > find a place to set it up, and moving it would be a pain. But it would > be a stretch for me and the first opportunity for me to mess with a > mini. What's the consensus? If everyone thought like that there would be no more System/38's in existance. The point is not to have a room-sized 8088, but to have a System/38, one of the most forgettable systems (it seems) in the history of computing, so that it will be preserved. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sat Sep 20 12:59:03 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Sol Computer (Auctionweb Grumblings) Message-ID: <34240EE7.3FCD@oboe.calpoly.edu> On Fri, 19 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > AuctionWeb is ridiculous. While there are some great finds there, I've > realized that whatever I bid on I will end up finding a week or two later > locally for a tenth or less of what I bid. The prices for stuff on there > are horribly inflated. That's jus like all auctions. People get caught up in the bidding and forget what things are really worth. I see prices both ways. I've sold things there for way less than their value also. They always sell for less than the average asking price on usenet. Recently, bidding is way down. Either due to the good weather or the influx of other on-line auction companies. Apple IIc-$15, Mac 512 complete-$24. > Don't bid on the item. That is, not until the last 5-10 minutes of the > auction. This serves two purposes that ultimately benefit you. 1) If you > bid early, it gives someone a chance to come in and outbid you early, then > you will counter-bid, then he will, then you will, etc. You get into a > bidding war. 2) If you bid just before the auction is over, you avoid 1). > You'll get in with a low-ball bid and hopefully nobody else will get a > chance to outbid you in the last remaining minutes, although I've had some > close calls. I once bid on an item (forgot what) at the last minute and > some character tried to do the same but his bid was late. In the same > token, I've had that happen to me where I was just too late. The problem > is, if you try to bid just before the auction ends (like within 1-2 > minutes of closing) there are about 14 other dweebs like you trying to put > in last minute bids. The record in the database for that item becomes so > locked up that nobody can make a bid, and your effort is futile. That's how the experts do it. I've seen auctions where after the ending time of the auction, the bidding can continue for 5 minutes (Onsale?). This means whenever a bid is entered, there's 5 minutes added to the clock. That would eliminate that scenario. I've had lots of people email me with higher offers because they didn't get in quick enough. I've missed items because my connection is slow. > The seller usually comes out on the short end of the stick. > Bidders wait until the last possible second and put in a bid that's not > necessarily fair market value. You can always put in a reserve price. You are also allowed to bid on your own item once during the auction. This rule is a little strange but I assume they allow it because bidding might be way below what they want to sell the item for. Doesn't make buyers happy though. I've only used it a couple times when someone locally made a legitimate offer for an item, never to boost the bid. > In real life, the bidding keeps going until one person concedes or passes > out. These onlines auctions need to instate some similar format. The system used by Onsale (I think) eliminates this. > I just realized this message is horribly off-topic but I just had to > complain about something today. My reply is off-topic too, oh well. Since many people here use AuctionWeb it's not that far off. I like using it because I usually don't have a clue what this stuff is worth. It's worth what people will pay. From engine at chac.org Sat Sep 20 12:25:33 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970920102521.00f24750@pop.batnet.com> Hi ClassicCmp, Issue 4.2 of the CHAC?s journal, the ANALYTICAL ENGINE, will commemorate the 20th anniversary of the Apple ][ and its descendants. As it happens, I?m in the middle :-) of writing the lead article :-) and I?m wondering if you could help me with a few data points. In spite of the laudable work done by Liethen, Mates and Weyhrich -- all of which I've gone through with some care -- the rest of this stuff is still remarkably hard to find. What I?m looking for is: ? Date, or at least month and year, of introduction, and location if pertinent ? "Secret" (internal development) name ? I realize there may have been several ? Price of typical config at introduction ? Total number produced, even if approximate (tough) ? Date, or at least month and year, of discontinuance (sometimes tough) and for these models: Original ][ ][plus ][ europlus Original //e //e Enhanced "Expanded" //e (1987, the one with 64Kx4 RAM) //c //c+ //e Emulation Card for Mac LC IIGS ROM 00, 01, 03, and the prototype-only 04 IIGS Upgrade Kit for //e, especially what it cost I'm also in need of everything about the Black Apple II marketed by Bell & Howell, including not only the above, but its technical specifications. And, if anybody ever actually SAW a IIx and remembers what it looked like, please let me know. If there?s a model I?m missing, and I don?t think there is, please clue me; but I hope that what I?m asking for, and the way I?m asking for it, will reassure you that I?ve done some homework already. I have at least ONE of these data items for every model listed, except the ][ europlus, but I don?t have ALL of them for ANY model listed. If I could complete this table with solid information, IMHO, it would be a significant contribution to the literature. Thanks in advance for your time and attention, and I hope you can and will contribute. You?ll understand that I want the CHAC?s commemoration of this quasi-eternal computer to be as good as we can make it. cheers, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Sep 20 15:54:46 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <199709202054.AA21016@world.std.com> Message-ID: > > What say ye? Is it worth messing with in your opinion? > If everyone thought like that there would be no more System/38's in > existance. The point is not to have a room-sized 8088, but to have a > System/38, one of the most forgettable systems (it seems) in the history > of computing, so that it will be preserved. Yes! I agree here, little is being saved of IBMs wares. Really, the stuff is not that bad! IBM used to be evil (replaced mostly by Micro$oft), because they wrote such awful software for their machines. The hardware, in general, tends to be excellent - overengineered yes, but often clever and almost always bulletproof. Of all minicomputers (and associated hacker folklore), IBMs tend to get shortchanged - due mostly to not being part of labs/academia (like Digital). After all, how many people on this list have a System/3, 32, 34, 36, or 38? Or a Series/1? Or older AS/400s? Now, how many people have PDP-11s? Whining I may be, but IBM stuff deserves a place in our collections and museums. Most of what keeps it out is its bad reputation. If you can get the System/38, do it. First, it is NOT a room sized 8088 - the hardware is decent. The innards are built using IBMs somewhat bizzarre fab techniques, and really does look alien. Alas, any software you might get would probably not be worth running (mostly boring accounting stuff - I doubt one could get decent compilers for the box). Thus, if you are like me - a hardware/fab geek - the System/38 could be a really neat toy. Back at RCS/RI, I have a System/38 sales document, that goes over some technical basics of the machine. When I get there next, maybe I can help you out. Also, if you decide to pass, please let the list know, as others may be interested. William Donzelli william@ans.confused.and.uncertain.net From william at ans.net Sat Sep 20 18:17:42 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just after sending out the previous message, I realized that some IBMs are being saved in good numbers - the early RS/6000s and RTs (as well as the micros) - so suppose my foot crept towards my mouth. I tend to like RS/6000s - in that they really are a super architecture, and just approaching their 10th birthday. Incidently, RCS/RI now has quite a few (six?) of the ex-NSFnet RS/6000s, and really need to move some out. If you need a BIG Powerserver 930 with more history behind it than just about all other machines in your collections, just write (at my real ans.net address, please!) - we will cut you a good deal (blatant plug)! William Donzelli william@???.net From william at ans.net Sat Sep 20 18:27:55 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Free! Paper from the dawn of the micros! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems I can not shut up tonight... Anyway, while sorting stuff at the old homestead, I came across a small stack of M6800 programming reference cards, published by Sphere sometime around 1975. Sphere was a very early micro company, and amongst the first to sell a microcomputer as a complete system (CPU with video!). Apparently, they did not last long. The cards look pretty cheesey (the printing is not great), but then everything I have seen by that company has looked cheesey. It appears that I have two extras, and am willing to mail them out to interested people just for postage. All you need to do is give me a good reason why you need a card - serious or goofy. Just do not say "I want one". Of course, bribes from people bearing equally unimportant paperwork from DEC, IBM, Sun, SGI, Cray, etc., will be considered! William Donzelli william@mfs.uu.csn.ans.net From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Sep 20 18:34:16 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/36 Message-ID: Remeber that S/36 I was gonna get for $200? I just got it for free. I'm told it runs RPG. The key for it was lost, so I can't boot the machine 'till I short the appropriate pins to Service position. All the docs and disks are gone too. Any idea what to do with it? I'm trying to find a twinax terminal for it now. From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sat Sep 20 19:01:34 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free Computer Books & Stuff!] Message-ID: <342463DE.289B@oboe.calpoly.edu> I sent this message out a while ago but the person responding never came through with the postage. Free to the first response. One requirement though: I must receive the postage within one week or I'll post it again or drop them off at the Goodwill. This is the second time this happened. I have the hardest time giving stuff away! -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Greg Mast Subject: Free Computer Books & Stuff! Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 20:23:36 -0700 Size: 1322 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970920/b663450a/attachment.mht From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sat Sep 20 18:45:45 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Burroughs streaming tape drive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was at a local computer 'junk' store today. Didn't find anything of interest except A Burroughs streaming tape drive that looks ALOT like one I remember using with a MicroVAX about 9 years ago. It's black, about 12" tall, 24" deep, is a 9 track streaming tape drive. It has two connectors on the back that look for all the world like Centronics style SCSI connectors. I could probably pick it up for $10 or less. Should I? I'd just grab it but I don't have UNLIMITED funding for such things and if it's not interfacable or usable in ANY WAY then I'll probably leave it. Is it interfacable to 'normal' machines? Should I grab it? Thanks... Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime PS: I did get an Apple wide carriage printer that looks like the 132 column version of the ImageWriter I...at Goodwill for $10. That should be fun. =-) From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Sep 20 19:55:36 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: INfo on Apple Techstep Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970921005536.0068bbcc@pop3.concentric.net> Picked up a Apple Techstep testing unit with case and all manuals, sofware, and cables. Unit has modules for MAC Classic,SE,SE/30, II, IIx, IIcx and SCSI HD's. I would like to find the test modules that work on the machines made after the IIcx, if Apple made any. I went to their web site and found nothing about these units. The one I have is from 1992. Also this wek picked up the following items; Apple graphics tablet interface card with pen (free), ThunderScan unit for MAC (free), Franklin PC8000 (.80), New unopen box joysticks for Color computer, and about 6 different manuals from early micro's to IBM maintenance analysis procedures for the 6360 diskette unit 6580 display station. All told it was a very good week. Keep computing !! From william at ans.net Sat Sep 20 20:09:25 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone here know what an IBM p/n 62X3480 (I suppose that would be an FRU number) is? It is fairly massive, looks about 15 years old, and has no clues as to what it goes with. OK, who has a handy FRU directory? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sat Sep 20 20:27:58 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: With all of the commotion on pdp8-lovers concerning old HP stuff in Michigan, I decided to take a look at what I have. I have no software or paper with my "pile" (no rack, that was kept by the previous owner), so I am basically stupid about the thing. Maybe someone can help. 2100A Computer #1304A02190 "Option 008" 7900A Disk Drive #1527A04334 2895B Tape Punch #1632A03303 FACIT model 4070 2748A Tape Reader #1133A01747 "System Serial 0815F" 13215A Disk Drive Power Supply #1435A04338 "Option STD" ????? Line Printer #? (Way too buried to investigate) Inside the 2100A are cards: row 1: row 2: A1 thru XYD A9 SSA TERM SSA LINE PRINTER XYD GRD TRUE IN/OUT ID (16K) +8 BIT DUP REG IDL +8 BIT DUP REG DC DISC INT'F 2 XYD DISC INT'F 1 SSA CRT INTERFACE SSA JUMPER (5 of them) XYD TIME BASE GEN (with a Hallicrafters property sticker) The processor boards date to 1972, yet others date to the early 1980s. Apparently this thing was upgraded (or repaired) several times during its life doing secret things. OK, what do I have? Any input would be helpful. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 20 20:25:58 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Sep 20, 97 07:03:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2072 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970921/92b2d747/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Sep 20 22:01:03 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? Message-ID: <199709210301.AA16981@world.std.com> As non-ibm-er I'd find the sys-38 interesting as an example of a non PC implementation of the 8088 and likely a fast machine for it's time. Allison From engine at chac.org Sat Sep 20 22:01:22 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Free to Good Home Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970920195024.00ef8330@pop.batnet.com> At 02:25 9/21/97 +0100, ARD wrote: >The >releasing of the full TechRef for the first PC was something of a suprise >to hackers used to IBM's behaviour in the past. It is worth remembering, though, that the above-captioned item was a $125 extra-cost option, which did tend to (as someone once said about something roughly similar) chase away the squirrels. What's fun is to find one of those now, in its oh-so-refined lavender binder. The only strictly comparable prize is an IBM PC CP/M-86 manual. Which is sort of pink, for those who are hunting. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sun Sep 21 00:50:55 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free Computer Books & Stuff!] Message-ID: <3424B5BF.6A02@oboe.calpoly.edu> Thanks to all those that responded but the books are all spoken for. Greg From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 21 00:55:55 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Free to Good Home References: <3.0.32.19970920195024.00ef8330@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3424B6EA.EEBC8865@rain.org> Kip Crosby wrote: > At 02:25 9/21/97 +0100, ARD wrote: > >The releasing of the full TechRef for the first PC was something of a > suprise > >to hackers used to IBM's behaviour in the past. > > It is worth remembering, though, that the above-captioned item was a $125 > extra-cost option, which did tend to (as someone once said about something > > roughly similar) chase away the squirrels. I have the sets for both the XT and AT, but didn't realize one was also put out for the PC! Another thing to keep my eyes open for. Thanks for that info! > What's fun is to find one of those now, in its oh-so-refined lavender > binder. The only strictly comparable prize is an IBM PC CP/M-86 manual. > Which is sort of pink, for those who are hunting. What happens when you boot up CP/M on the PC? It sounds rather interesting. From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Sep 21 01:13:08 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: William Donzelli's message of Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:27:58 -0400 (EDT) References: Message-ID: <199709210613.XAA10131@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > With all of the commotion on pdp8-lovers concerning old HP stuff in > Michigan, I decided to take a look at what I have. I have no software or > paper with my "pile" (no rack, that was kept by the previous owner), so I > am basically stupid about the thing. Maybe someone can help. > > 2100A Computer #1304A02190 "Option 008" How to read HP serial numbers, in case you are interested: 1304A02190 13 == year, since 1960 (in this case 1973) 04 == week within year A == country of manufacture (A = USA) 02190 == serial number The year/week are supposed to be date of manufacture, but I think I have seen it used to mean date of last revision. Either that or HP managed to turn out a lot of some things in a week. It's also not clear whether a change in year/week resets the "counter" portion of the serial number. I'm not sure what option 008 is on a 2100A. > 7900A Disk Drive #1527A04334 > 2895B Tape Punch #1632A03303 FACIT model 4070 Yep, this is a badge-engineered Facit paper-tape punch. > 2748A Tape Reader #1133A01747 "System Serial 0815F" > 13215A Disk Drive Power Supply #1435A04338 "Option STD" > ????? Line Printer #? (Way too buried to investigate) Hmm, 2613A, 2617A maybe? > Inside the 2100A are cards: [elided] In row 1, A1 through A9 are the CPU. I am thinking that A9 and maybe A8 are options (DMA?), but will need to pull manuals to look. Likewise I will need to pull manuals to tell you more than obvious bits (e.g. DISC INT'F 1 and ...2 are how it talks to the 7900A) about the other things in row 1. Row 2 is where the memory lives. I am thinking that you have 32KW in that system; the XYDs should be the X-Y drivers, the SSAs should be core stacks, and I can't remember exactly what the ID (16K), IDL, or DC cards do. I do recall that there is also another flavor of the ID (16K) card for smaller memory configurations. There should be five-digit product IDs on each of those cards, most likely of the form 12ddda, where the "d"s are digits and the "a" is an alpha character. Those would help me when I have the manuals handy. Might even help me figure out which ones to pull. > The processor boards date to 1972, yet others date to the early 1980s. > Apparently this thing was upgraded (or repaired) several times during its > life doing secret things. > > OK, what do I have? Any input would be helpful. Well, you have more than I do in the way of hardware. My 2100A was part of a Fourier analysis system, and so I have some cards that do some sort of fast crunching on some sort of input signal, but all of the other I/O and memory was removed. So otherwise I just have the CPU cards. But I have manuals. Bug me, I'll pull 'em out and look through them and try to find out more for you. w/r/t the rack -- as near as I can tell HP used the same style of 19" rack for lots of stuff, from various 2100-based systems (including HP 1000s) to the early HP 3000s. I see them from time to time but they usually have been gutted already and are just empty racks. -Frank McConnell From dastar at crl.com Sun Sep 21 02:26:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <199709202054.AA21016@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > > this is 1978 ish starting point (possibly earlier) The ][ was released in 1977 actually. > <"Expanded" //e (1987, the one with 64Kx4 RAM) > > If anything the //e was likely 1983 or so. I believe he's referring to the Platinum //e which was released in 1987. It had an expanded keyboard (included a numeric keypad). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 21 14:23:58 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Old Computers Auction? References: <199709191503.KAA17106@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Message-ID: <3425744E.A1F585AF@rain.org> David Williams wrote: > The page isn't being updated and they haven't answered any of the > emails I've sent. I'd say they are having some trouble with their > auction. I'd like a Sol but didn't know if $350 for the base unit > was a good deal or not. Now if it had manuals, software, etc... I just checked the Old Computers Auction Web this morning and found it both updated, and the auction date extended until Monday. From nospammail_Chwolka at t-online.de Sun Sep 21 20:57:09 1997 From: nospammail_Chwolka at t-online.de (Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? References: Message-ID: <3425D075.2167@t-online.de> Tony Duell wrote: > > > I agree here, little is being saved of IBMs wares. Really, the stuff is > Now, a manufacturer that _never_ seems to get mentioned is Philips. How > many people realise that Philips (yes, the company that also makes > consumer electronics, etc) made minicomputers. They certainly made a > series of 16 bit machines in the 1970's, and I've heard of machines using > valves (tubes) back in the 1950's also from Philips. > > > William Donzelli > > -tony Vote for Phillips -) I had a P4000 - a multiprocessor, multiuser -system with a lot of 8085 bords even with his own ram , a system ram of 1mb , a 12' 80MB harddisks etc. The computer died but some parts are saved. Now I have 2 P3500 from phillips. They are TurboDos machines and the nice thing is that they have a DCD check and if I rum my procom under OS/2 the P3500 starts and I cab work with it. Ending procom the P3500 fall to sleep -) I agree Phillips made nice machines even the TurboDos are great once. Greetings from Fritz Chwolka / collecting old computers just for fun supporting the Unofficial CP/M Web Page look at http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/ *-------------------------------------------------------* ! Internet: Chwolka@nt-gmbh.de ! ! Chwolka@t-online.de ! *=======================================================* ! ! ! If you have an old CP/M System don't throw it away. ! ! Try to find someone who give the system a new home. ! ! ! *-------------------------------------------------------* From donm at cts.com Sun Sep 21 17:04:13 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IMS Computer, TurboDos w/dBase 3.0, CYMA, & Wordstar In-Reply-To: <34258309.59E0@ocsnet.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Sep 1997, Pete V. McCracken wrote: > Have access to an IMS (Z-80 based???) multi-user, TurboDos computer > system with dBase 2.0, CYMA Accounting System, Wordstar 3.0, three > terminals and keyboards. > > Do you know of anyone who might be interested? It is planned for the > scrapheap in the very near future. No I don't, Pete, but I am forwarding this to classic computers list where it will get much wider distribution. - don > -- > Pete V. McCracken > Country Western Style Dance Center > 341 E. Olive Ave., Porterville, CA 93257-4890 > CWSDanceCenter@ocsnet.net 209 784-2341 FAX 209-784-6192 > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From engine at chac.org Sun Sep 21 17:31:59 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IMS Computer Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970921153151.00f1c610@pop.batnet.com> At 15:04 9/21/97 -0700, Don Maslin wrote: >No I don't [know who wants the IMS,] Pete, but I am forwarding this to classic computers list >where it will get much wider distribution. > - don I just told McCracken that we did. The first computer I ever owned was one of the IMS all-in-one-piece single-user desktops, which is now in our collection (still running, video weak,) and it would be excellent to have one of the multi-terminal minis to go with it. Thank you Don. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From cdenham at tgis.co.uk Sun Sep 21 18:17:31 1997 From: cdenham at tgis.co.uk (Christopher Denham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IPUG In-Reply-To: <3424B6EA.EEBC8865@rain.org> References: <3.0.32.19970920195024.00ef8330@pop.batnet.com> <3424B6EA.EEBC8865@rain.org> Message-ID: <3425ab01.12323889@mail.tgis.co.uk> I just read this paragraph in IPUG ( INDEPENDENT PET USERS GROUP ) compendium dated November 1980 , I think Mr B Wood who ran the IPUG software library got it wrong I quote ****************************************************************************************** Would members who are waiting for games programs to be sold by businesses on a commission basis please consider if they would help the group by donating their programs to the Software Library . I consider the games market has now diminished to a level that would give very little return financially . ****************************************************************************************** How wrong could any body be I had to chuckle . Chris From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 21 19:28:15 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Free to Good Home In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970920195024.00ef8330@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Sep 20, 97 08:01:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1706 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970922/1bb2236a/attachment.ksh From starling at umr.edu Sun Sep 21 20:48:25 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Shipping & IBM Parts... Message-ID: <199709220148.UAA26010@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Recently signed back on the list after being absent for a few weeks... hope I haven't missed anything! :) Two questions: 1) Is there a FAQ somewhere that lists all IBM part nubmers and what they are? I've got a friend offering me an IBM 3278, and I can't remember if that's a dumb terminal or if it's something more exciting. 2) Anyone have any suggestions for a **MASS** shipment of computer stuff? I'm mainly concerned with keeping the cost down. I'm working on a deal right now that might involve as many as five desktop-type machines with monitors, lots of repair parts in original boxes and a "shelf of software". I'm the one getting the goods, so shipping cost is my problem. Are there any companies other than UPS I should look at? Should I try to minimize the number of boxes, even if it means bigger and heavier boxes? Is it completely insane to try to get this much stuff shipped? Perhaps I should just drive down to Florida and pick the stuff up... thanks... chris starling From engine at chac.org Sun Sep 21 20:41:57 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Free to Good Home Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970921184152.00eeb610@pop.batnet.com> >> At 02:25 9/21/97 +0100, ARD wrote: >Hmmm... Well, us HP71 owners have the problem that the IDS.... >cost about \pounds 1000 >when it came out in the UK. That makes it _very_ difficult to find >second-hand, since so few were ever sold. >>choke<< talk about an HP collectible.... >> Which [the PC CP/M-86 binder] is sort of pink, for those who are hunting. > >Is it? I've seen a grey Digital Research binder for CP/M86 >for the PC. The IBM PC -- not DRI -- binder for CP/M-86 a la Principles of Ops is covered in calamine-pink vinyl. I've got one, seen another. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From william at ans.net Sun Sep 21 21:57:06 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, I can hardly talk (I have about 20 DEC minicomputers of assorted > flavours) and no IBM minis at all, but the main reasons for this are : > > 1) First and foremost, I've not been offered any. Obviously I can't > collect what I can't find. Seriously, if I was offered a _small_ IBM mini > that otherwise wouldn't be saved, I would rescue it (the _small_ is due > to a lack of space only). I did buy an RS6000 at a radio rally (hamfest) > earlier this year. People are abandoning System/36 boxes like crazy these days. If you search, you should be able to find a deskside system for free in little time. > 2) But the main thing that keeps me away from IBM machines (and towards > DEC/Philips/etc) is that IBM machines are often almost impossible to hack > and repair. The chips are those strange IBM square metal cans with > unlisted numbers. Schematics and spares are impossible to obtain. A > binary listing of the instruction set is sometimes a pain to find. The > releasing of the full TechRef for the first PC was something of a suprise > to hackers used to IBM's behaviour in the past. You do have a valid point, IBM does things weird. The chips are far from off-the-shelf. The solution is to build up spares from donor machines. For my RS/6000s, I saved some extra motherboards (planars, as they call them). For System/3x stuff, there seem to plenty of machines in the scrapyards that can be picked apart. IBM tended to cram lots of stuff in a small CPU box, situated inside the normally spacious cabinet. Pulling an entire CPU should pose no problems. Even if one had a big machine, like a 3081 (a water cooled monster, probably not too collectable), the actual meat of the system (the TCMs - Thermal Conduction Modules) would fit in a small carton. While the pre-VAX DECs are very easy to hack and repair, do the later ones not also suffer from the custom parts problem? I just packed up a module set for a VAX 11/750, with all of those VLSI gate arrays. The best thing for repair is to get donor boards. And even some of the standard chips on the boards can be bears to find (looking at the F100K ECL on the disk controller - how many times have you seen F100K glue logic available?). Schematics, I agree, are a problem. > Now, a manufacturer that _never_ seems to get mentioned is Philips. How > many people realise that Philips (yes, the company that also makes > consumer electronics, etc) made minicomputers. They certainly made a > series of 16 bit machines in the 1970's, and I've heard of machines using > valves (tubes) back in the 1950's also from Philips. I remember seeing some ads in some 1970s era issues of *Electronics*. I have never seen one, I suppose very few made it overseas. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Sep 21 22:21:46 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: <199709210613.XAA10131@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > How to read HP serial numbers, in case you are interested: Always interested. > > 2748A Tape Reader #1133A01747 "System Serial 0815F" Can this thing be used as a general purpose reader, if I hack together an interface? The HP interface looks special. > There should be five-digit product IDs on each of those cards, most > likely of the form 12ddda, where the "d"s are digits and the "a" is an > alpha character. Those would help me when I have the manuals handy. > Might even help me figure out which ones to pull. I did not see any numbers like that. How about 02100-60083 B-1410-22 or 02100-60054? William Donzelli william@ans.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Sep 21 22:41:42 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Shipping & IBM Parts... Message-ID: <970921234010_1930186225@emout08.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-09-21 21:51:33 EDT, c. starling put forth: << Two questions: 1) Is there a FAQ somewhere that lists all IBM part nubmers and what they are? I've got a friend offering me an IBM 3278, and I can't remember if that's a dumb terminal or if it's something more exciting. >> not that i know of, although i think you can call boulder parts for parts lookup. 800.388.7080 i can look up fru part numbers when i'm at work though. 3278 isnt worth much unless you have an ibm mainframe to connect it to. its just a plain old ugly terminal. i think the 3279 was colour and the 3278 was monochrome. I do have most of the parts to an ibm xt3270 around here somewhere... david From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Sep 22 09:58:07 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Shipping & IBM Parts... Message-ID: <9708228749.AA874947700@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > 1) Is there a FAQ somewhere that lists all IBM part nubmers and what they > are? I've got a friend offering me an IBM 3278, and I can't remember > if that's a dumb terminal or if it's something more exciting. > > not that i know of, although i think you can call boulder parts for parts > lookup. 800.388.7080 i can look up fru part numbers when i'm at work though. > > 3278 isnt worth much unless you have an ibm mainframe to connect it to. its > just a plain old ugly terminal. i think the 3279 was colour and the 3278 was > monochrome. I do have most of the parts to an ibm xt3270 around here > somewhere... "xt3270"? When I was at IBM, we called it the "3270-PC". Very nice machine, but not as nice as the 3270-PC/G or 3270-PC/GX, the graphics terminal versions. The latter had a graphics coprocessor box almost as large as a PC, and a 19 inch monitor (I think 1280x1024 resolution) 3278 is an extremely dumb terminal. It not only needs a mainframe, but AFAIK it needs a 3274 or 3174 "terminal controller" - a minicomputer dedicated to MUXing terminals to an IBM channel, which also ran most of the local loop on the terminal and sent packets to the mainframe (a sort of PAD, I suppose). I can't remember how much of the "dumb terminal" functionality was in the 3274 but I used to suspect it was quite a lot... 3278 is indeed monchrome, 3279 the colour version. Superseded (mid '80s) by 3178 and 3179, and some cheaper monochrome ones (3196?) To reply to some other comments on the recent IBM thread, Yes, I might take a system/38 if someone offered it to me. I don't have anywhere to put it but I might find room at the back of my garage. I'd prefer a System/34 though - mainly because that's the machine I worked on when I was at IBM. I agree with Tony, though - difficult to maintain with all the custom chips. Allison, I don't think when [previous contributor] described it as a "room-sized 8088" he was talking about the processor involved. The processor is a custom IBM minicomputer on ?several boards, based on the System/32 and System/34 and things. I think he was making a performance comparison, and probably being a bit unfair. The IBM AS/400 is, I am told, based on the S/38. Philip. From manney at nwohio.com Mon Sep 22 08:44:16 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:03 2005 Subject: Weekend (tiny) haul Message-ID: <199709221509.IAA22476@mx4.u.washington.edu> (4) PCjr cartridges -- Lotus 1-2-3 (2 carts) Managing your money BASIC PCjr program disks -- Your PCjr Sampler Exploring the PCjr Snoopy's Reading Machine (Random House) Charlie Brown's ABC's (Random House) Math Rabbit (The Learning Company) Make an offer... ps Also have a bwoken PCjr system available -- probably bad motherboard. manney@nwohio.com From engine at chac.org Mon Sep 22 10:02:27 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: AS/400 and S/38 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970922075318.00ef5380@pop.batnet.com> At 09:58 9/22/97 BST, you wrote: >The IBM AS/400 is, I am told, based on the S/38. I'd be interested in knowing how, and to what extent. When my company was installing a bunch of Novell LANs in the late eighties, we used to call an AS/400 "a '386 surrounded by a lot of expensive air," but I suspect that that was the same kind of disparaging performance benchmark as comparing an S/38 to an 8088. I also suspect that what's inside an AS/400 box has changed an _awful lot_ over the years while the badge has provided continuity. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Sep 22 11:37:14 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: AS/400 and S/38 In-Reply-To: Kip Crosby's message of Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:02:27 -0700 References: <3.0.32.19970922075318.00ef5380@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <199709221637.JAA14733@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Kip Crosby wrote (after a correspondent I've lost track of): > At 09:58 9/22/97 BST, you wrote: > >The IBM AS/400 is, I am told, based on the S/38. > > I'd be interested in knowing how, and to what extent. When my company was > installing a bunch of Novell LANs in the late eighties, we used to call an > AS/400 "a '386 surrounded by a lot of expensive air," but I suspect that > that was the same kind of disparaging performance benchmark as comparing an > S/38 to an 8088. I also suspect that what's inside an AS/400 box has > changed an _awful lot_ over the years while the badge has provided continuity. Doug Jones wrote a nice little explanation of this in a.f.c in early 1996. It's in dejanews if you want to go looking (long URL follows): http://xp8.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=4528820&server=db96q1&CONTEXT=874944038.2025260602&hitnum=0 The summary is that there's a capability-based CISC architecture that derives from the System/38. That is what the compilers compile to. The AS/400 loader takes that code and generates RISC code for the underlying AS/400 CPU. That underlying AS/400 CPU has changed over the life of the product, and they can change it again. Pretty nifty. Apparently the underlying RISC architecture doesn't have much in the way of access protections; all that is implemented in the loader-generated code. It's not clear to me whether this means that linked executables can be moved from one flavor of AS/400 to another, or you have to recompile from source, and I don't enough about AS/400s to know whether its users really care about stuff like that. -Frank McConnell From chemif at mbox.queen.it Mon Sep 22 20:55:18 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo Romagnoli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.16.19970922205518.23271046@mbox.queen.it> At 22.57 21/09/97 -0400, William wrote: >People are abandoning System/36 boxes like crazy these days. If you >search, you should be able to find a deskside system for free in little >time. > >> 2) But the main thing that keeps me away from IBM machines (and towards >> DEC/Philips/etc) is that IBM machines are often almost impossible to hack >> and repair. The chips are those strange IBM square metal cans with >> unlisted numbers. Schematics and spares are impossible to obtain. A >> binary listing of the instruction set is sometimes a pain to find. >You do have a valid point, IBM does things weird. The chips are far from >off-the-shelf. The solution is to build up spares from donor machines. For >my RS/6000s, I saved some extra motherboards (planars, as they call them). >For System/3x stuff, there seem to plenty of machines in the scrapyards >that can be picked apart. IBM tended to cram lots of stuff in a small CPU >box, situated inside the normally spacious cabinet. Pulling an entire CPU >should pose no problems. > The best thing for repair is to get donor boards. I fully agree with William's opinion. Unfortunately here in Italy IBM had a great fame, comparing to others (Digital,Honeywell, etc.) I can say that talking with many general manager about the first installation of a computer system in the company where they were working during early 70'S, everyone confirmed that was IBM the first approach. This, together with the incompatibility of the hardware of other producers, leads many company here (once sticked in the net of the IBM-spider) to have no way out rather than the same "system". So, in few years, during '70 years, too many IBM S/3X were installed in many companyes and today IBM is still present there. This big park of machines needed to have many company to be involved for programs and maintenance. I can say that those machines reached a level of diffusion here nearly to be compared to the success of the VHS system as a consumer video system. If all above said seems to help a collector to find plenty of those system, this is not true. In fact there is a market of used hardware for those units that are still requested. Why? 1)The "family" is so well known by programmers 2)There are many IBM and specially ex-IBM programmers available for those systems (=low price know-how) 3)Park of twinax peripherals already installed (=why change all?) 4)Strengthness of IBM Hardware (=if it last is very good) 5)Low price of faster used CPU (=easy upgrading/maintenance) 5)Customerized application running ONLY on them. All this keep high in price and request of used S/3x hardware. I remember one of those specialized company based in Milan to have a "STOCK-EXCHANGE-LIKE" price list of S/3x machines as advertisement in PC-WEEK last year. This sort of "market fever" keeps working IBM system far from scrapyards. CIAO RICCARDO ROMAGNOLI . From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Sep 22 14:42:18 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Apple II info for CHAC Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363C9D@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> - Original Apple II: introduced April 1977, code name "Annie", $1300 with 4K - Apple II+: introduced June 1979, $1195 with 16K - Apple III: introduced May 1980 (ships February 1981), code name "Sara", $4340 with 128K - Apple IIe: introduced January 1983, code name "Super II", $1395 with 64K - Apple III+: introduced December 1983, $3000 with 256K - Apple IIc: introduced April 24, 1984, numerous code names, $1300 with 128K - Apple IIe enhanced: introduced March 1985 - Apple IIgs: introduced September, 1986, code name "Phoenix" - Apple IIe platinum: introduced January 1987 - Apple IIc+: introduced September 1988 Kai > ---------- > From: Kip Crosby[SMTP:engine@chac.org] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Saturday, September 20, 1997 10:25 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Hi ClassicCmp, > > Issue 4.2 of the CHAC?s journal, the ANALYTICAL ENGINE, will > commemorate > the 20th anniversary of the Apple ][ and its descendants. As it > happens, > I?m in the middle :-) of writing the lead article :-) and I?m > wondering if > you could help me with a few data points. In spite of the laudable > work > done by Liethen, Mates and Weyhrich -- all of which I've gone through > with > some care -- the rest of this stuff is still remarkably hard to find. > > What I?m looking for is: > > · Date, or at least month and year, of introduction, and location if > pertinent > · "Secret" (internal development) name ? I realize there may have been > several > · Price of typical config at introduction > · Total number produced, even if approximate (tough) > · Date, or at least month and year, of discontinuance (sometimes > tough) > > and for these models: > > Original ][ > ][plus > ][ europlus > Original //e > //e Enhanced > "Expanded" //e (1987, the one with 64Kx4 RAM) > //c > //c+ > //e Emulation Card for Mac LC > IIGS ROM 00, 01, 03, and the prototype-only 04 > IIGS Upgrade Kit for //e, especially what it cost > > I'm also in need of everything about the Black Apple II marketed by > Bell & > Howell, including not only the above, but its technical > specifications. > And, if anybody ever actually SAW a IIx and remembers what it looked > like, > please let me know. > > If there?s a model I?m missing, and I don?t think there is, please > clue me; > but I hope that what I?m asking for, and the way I?m asking for it, > will > reassure you that I?ve done some homework already. I have at least > ONE of > these data items for every model listed, except the ][ europlus, but I > don?t have ALL of them for ANY model listed. If I could complete this > table with solid information, IMHO, it would be a significant > contribution > to the literature. > > Thanks in advance for your time and attention, and I hope you can and > will > contribute. You?ll understand that I want the CHAC?s commemoration of > this > quasi-eternal computer to be as good as we can make it. > > cheers, > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > > From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Sep 22 14:30:51 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <4C8E4E92AEF@ifrsys.com> Guys: I dredged this up from comp.sys.cbm. Alot of you guys out there have been talking about hunting down 'Heavy Iron'. Here's one who's struck the Mother Lode of 'Lite Plastic'. I sure wish I knew where this place was . . . . Jeff ------------>>>> Forewarded Message Follows<<<<--------------- Hey All, For those of you in the U.S. looking for backup systems, extra drives, or just new and different Commodores, I have a small story to share. This weekend I had the privilege (sarcasm) of putting together a low-end IBM-compat system for my dad. After hunting around, I found that Good Will is now selling their computer systems separately at a place called Good Will Computerworks. As I priced the PC items with them, I asked casually if they ever dealt in old Commodore 8-bits. "Well", the Good Will lady said, "we do get them in all the time, but we typically put them in a salvage bin, where they end up as scrap or garbage." At that moment, I felt like one of those animal rights activists watching the Science channel. "If you like, though", she went on, "you can come down and sign our request book." Not an hour later I was at Good Will Computerworks, making a deal on a VGA monitor for $50.00 and asking about signing up to have Commodore hardware set aside. The lady asked what specifically I was after, and I mentioned a few items. She then introduced me to another lady who was in charge of salvage. She, in turn, brought me to the salvage bin. The Good Will junk pile for computers. As I sit here folks, my eyes got as big as saucers when I saw this bin. Commodore 128's, 1571's, 1541's, Vic-20s, bread box C64s, printers, ALL of it-- just lying there like turtles on thier backs. Yesterday, my friends, I drove home with a VGA monitor for $50.00, and another box with a flat Commodore 128, Commodore 1571 DSDD disk drive, assorted software in the box, a Commodore VIC-20, and power supplies and power cables all around for $5.00!!!!!! I spent the rest of the day testing, cleaning, and tinkering. It's all in perfect condition. The VIC-20 was a particularly special find, as I had been looking for one. Today I've been downloading VIC-20 software from ftp.funet.fi and playing some really great little games on it. The charm of this computer can not be understated. If you can get your hands on one, I highly recommend it. The moral of this story? I'm not sure there is one, except that there are Commodore computers all over this country on their way to their deaths at the hands of the "Good" Will folks. Only we can stop them, and as for my part, it's been a pleasure to. - Bo From william at ans.net Mon Sep 22 15:33:49 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Available for Free, Is It Worth It? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19970922205518.23271046@mbox.queen.it> Message-ID: Some System/38 information: Apparently there are several models (4, 6, 18, 20, and 40, maybe more), the best, the 40, being 4.4 times as powerful as the smallest member, the 4. The larger models also have a bit more control store, and on the 40, some of the control store is some sort of high speed variant (I suppose so simple microcodes, maybe for simple things like clocking general registers, can work faster). It also appears that the CPU is one card that sits over the backplane, and can be swapped out for upgrades. On the best model, the memory tops out at 16 megabytes, with error-correcting. On the higher end models, the memory cards can support two accesses. The best cycle time is 333 nS, 1100 nS is listed for the slower machines. A total of 6.2 gigabytes can be attached to the machine, as well as 256 printers, terminals, etc. Most I/O is handled by coprocessors to unload the CPU. This information was taken from "System/38 Technology: Designed With You in Mind". Sounds OK to me... William Donzelli william@ans.net From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Sep 22 15:44:24 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363D0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Geez, you must not be on the west coast. Around here, VIC-20/C64/C128 hardware is like weeds. There isn't a thrift store in the entire Seattle area without a Commodore piece for <=$5. Can't give 'em away -- literally. Kai > ---------- > From: Jeff Kaneko[SMTP:Jeff.Kaneko@ifrsys.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, September 22, 1997 12:30 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . > > Guys: > > I dredged this up from comp.sys.cbm. Alot of you guys out there have > been talking about hunting down 'Heavy Iron'. Here's one who's struck > the Mother Lode of 'Lite Plastic'. I sure wish I knew where this > place was . . . . > > > Jeff > > ------------>>>> Forewarded Message Follows<<<<--------------- > From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Sep 22 16:33:35 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <199709222132.QAA13728@sunflower.com> Well if you see a working 128D or anymore 1702 monitors grab one! ---------- > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . > Date: Monday, September 22, 1997 3:44 PM > > Geez, you must not be on the west coast. Around here, VIC-20/C64/C128 > hardware is like weeds. There isn't a thrift store in the entire > Seattle area without a Commodore piece for <=$5. Can't give 'em away -- > literally. > > Kai > > > ---------- > > From: Jeff Kaneko[SMTP:Jeff.Kaneko@ifrsys.com] > > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 1997 12:30 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . > > > > Guys: > > > > I dredged this up from comp.sys.cbm. Alot of you guys out there have > > been talking about hunting down 'Heavy Iron'. Here's one who's struck > > the Mother Lode of 'Lite Plastic'. I sure wish I knew where this > > place was . . . . > > > > > > Jeff > > > > ------------>>>> Forewarded Message Follows<<<<--------------- > > From jrbrady at delphi.com Mon Sep 22 16:28:56 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Shipping & IBM Parts Message-ID: <01INY9ETCBTE90QJ03@delphi.com> > On Sept 29, starling@umr.edu wrote: > are? I've got a friend offering me an IBM 3278, and I can't remember > if that's a dumb terminal or if it's something more exciting. The 3278 is a dumb terminal used for information display on IBM mainframes. It requires a 3270-type controller unit attached to an I/O channel in order to function, along with the requisite software on the host processor. These are not ASCII devices. Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 22 16:28:58 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Small finds to start Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970922212858.0068b888@pop3.concentric.net> Well this week is not starting off as well as last week: items that were free: commodore 1541-II disk drive, flat C64 computer with a Epyz Fast Load cartridge still in it, Power supply for 1541-11,1571-II, or 1581; old metal transfer box for the apple from inmac it's blue/black metal; various appletalk cables; Hayes 1200 baud ext modem with power supply. Purchased the following items: HP utility disk for print srceen on the IBM PC/XT boxes for LaserJet and ThinkJet units; C16 ower's manual; apple mac book by Cary Lu; and last a copy of PC DISK Magazine with the manual 5 1/4 disk other items that were mailed with it, it si Vol 1 No 4 sold for $29.95 cost me $3.50. Well that's it for today hope to hit 3 more shoes tomorrow. Keep computing !! From bcw at u.washington.edu Mon Sep 22 16:58:56 1997 From: bcw at u.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Back again kinda Message-ID: Hi all. I've been away vacationing and intended to read the list but my laptop bit the dust 2 days into the trip (damn PC crap ;). At any rate, I'll be reading and catching up again but if there is anything pressing, please get in touch. I'll also be getting back to work on the web site stuff and the FAQs over the next couple weeks as I've been slacking lately. To those I was going to meet up with on the trip - sorry I lost all phone numbers/directions/etc with my hard drive. If anyone knows where to get a cheap hard drive for a Compaq Contura 430 please let me know ;). ------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson bcw@u.washington.edu (mail may come from alternate addresses) Classic Computers List Operator/Owner http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Sep 22 17:41:19 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363D0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> I dunno about this guy, but I'm in the Midwest. It can be pretty slim pickens out here. The thrift down the street from where I live is asking $10 for 1541's and 1571's. Too steep. I wait for the price to go down . . . . Jeff > Geez, you must not be on the west coast. Around here, VIC-20/C64/C128 > hardware is like weeds. There isn't a thrift store in the entire > Seattle area without a Commodore piece for <=$5. Can't give 'em away -- > literally. > > Kai > > > ---------- > > From: Jeff Kaneko[SMTP:Jeff.Kaneko@ifrsys.com] > > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Sent: Monday, September 22, 1997 12:30 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . > > > > Guys: > > > > I dredged this up from comp.sys.cbm. Alot of you guys out there have > > been talking about hunting down 'Heavy Iron'. Here's one who's struck > > the Mother Lode of 'Lite Plastic'. I sure wish I knew where this > > place was . . . . > > > > > > Jeff > > > > ------------>>>> Forewarded Message Follows<<<<--------------- > > > From jruschme at exit109.com Mon Sep 22 17:40:10 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363D0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: >I dunno about this guy, but I'm in the Midwest. It can be pretty >slim pickens out here. The thrift down the street from where I live >is asking $10 for 1541's and 1571's. Too steep. I wait for the >price to go down . . . . Funny, but my best score on Commodore H/W was while I was business in Killeen, TX: C-128, 1541, 1571, 1581, connecting cables, and power brick for the 1581... all for $19.95. There was also a spare C-64 brick, but it has a bad 5v. :-( <<>> From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 22 18:25:05 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > I dunno about this guy, but I'm in the Midwest. It can be pretty > slim pickens out here. The thrift down the street from where I live > is asking $10 for 1541's and 1571's. Too steep. I wait for the > price to go down . . . . Not to get anyone excited but 1571 drives command a decent price on comp.sys.cbm. I've sold a couple there for $25 each, and that was on the low side as they got snatched up quick. But as far as that sort of stuff goes, I'm with Kai. Of course, I'm on the west coast as well. I can find stuff like C64, Atari 800, TI-99/4a, etc. in thrift shops for anywhere from $.99 to $2.98. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at exit109.com Mon Sep 22 18:54:58 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <199709202054.AA21016@world.std.com> Message-ID: I could use some advice here... I'm starting to sort through the misc. parts and accessories that I've collected over the years and am wondering if certain things are really worth keeping, such as: 1200 baud modems (Hayes external, Racal Vadic VA212LC) CGA cards Hercules and MDA mono cards Generic XT floppy controllers You get the idea... Also, a few items that I'd like to find homes for if anyone has a use for them: 1) 7-nodes of Synoptics Lattisnet. This consists of 7 WD 8003EBT cards and matching hub. The 8003EBT is a 8-bit ISA card which is still supported by Win95, Linux, etc. It implements a pre 10-base-T standard for twisted pair ethernet. 2) 5 nodes of Fox/DCA/Sitka 10-Net. 10-Net is an early peer-to-peer LAN for PC's. The 5 boards implement an "Ethernet-like" protocol and appear similar to 3C501 cards. Comes with v3.1 and v3.2 of the software. 3) 4 Computone Intelliport 8-port serial cards These are the older models which had the external "paddles". Unfortunately, I only have two of the paddles. AFAIK, these are not supported by Linux/ FreeBSD/etc. They are (or were, anyway) supported under SCO Unix. 4) 1 Hostess 4-port serial card. Also supported (or was, anyway) by SCO. All I want is postage + a couple of bucks to make it worth my time to pack them. <<>> From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 22 21:20:06 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: References: <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: >But as far as that sort of stuff goes, I'm with Kai. Of course, I'm on >the west coast as well. I can find stuff like C64, Atari 800, TI-99/4a, >etc. in thrift shops for anywhere from $.99 to $2.98. I guess I'm in the wrong part of the West Coast! In the Portland area I've only gotten lucky enough to find stuff that cheep once or twice. Plus it seems like most stuff is either a C64, a 1541 drive, or a TI-99/4a, and they are always bare. You can't find stuff like power supplies, cables, or whatever else it takes to make them function without a LOT of looking. The average price at GW in this area for any item of this class is about $10! I think my best find ever around here was a TI-99/4a with PS, modulator, cassette cable, and 3 carts (which included extended BASIC) for $4. Needless to say this wasn't at GW it was another local Thrift Store which happens to be litterly next door to GW. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 22 21:28:02 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Another Lisa 2/5 question Message-ID: Hi all, Well this weekend I got the boards out and removed the battery pack. I ended up using White Vinegar to clean up the mess the batteries had made. Seems to have worked OK. Now I've got a problem. How do I go about replacing the four batteries in the pack? I've no idea what they were rated at. Do I need replace them? I noticed an On/Off switch next to them, any ideas what it's for? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From wpe at interserv.com Mon Sep 22 20:33:32 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free Computer Books & Stuff!] References: <342463DE.289B@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: <34271C6B.382FA15A@interserv.com> Please send me your mailing address, so I can send you a check or money order to cover the postage for the Apple II stuff... Someone gave me two of them, and I don't know about Apple stuff... Thanks! Will Day Phone: 978.233.1211 Greg Mast wrote: > I sent this message out a while ago but the person responding never > came > through with the postage. Free to the first response. One requirement > though: I must receive the postage within one week or I'll post it > again > or drop them off at the Goodwill. > > This is the second time this happened. I have the hardest time giving > stuff away! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Free Computer Books & Stuff! > Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 20:23:36 -0700 > From: Greg Mast > To: Classic Computer List > > Still cleaning the closets. I'll be posting more stuff like this off > and > on for a while as I sort. All this stuff is free of charge! Of course > you pay postage to where you live unless you want to drive to central > California. > > TRS-80 Model 100 Manuals: > These are photocopies of the originals but are bound together like > real > manuals. Service Manual, Owner's Manual and 2 little Quick Reference > manuals. > Shipping is $2.25 book rate. > > Apple Lot: > Critic's Guide to Software for Apple and Compatible Computers > Apple II Super Serial Card Manual > Apple II 80-Column Text Card Manual > Extended 80-Column Text Card Supplement > Apple II The DOS Manual > Applesoft II Basic Programming Reference Manual > Shipping is $4.25 book rate > > Commodore Geos Lot: > Looks like a set of GEOS 2.0 and 1.2 > Manuals for 1.2 and 2.0 > Deskpak Plus (six applications for GEOS) > Deskpak Manual > 25 Blank 5-1/4 disks > Shipping is $2.75 book rate From starling at umr.edu Mon Sep 22 20:52:39 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Another Lisa 2/5 question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 22, 97 06:28:02 pm Message-ID: <199709230152.UAA09536@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Hey, Zane... congrats on your Lisa score! Hope she works! > Well this weekend I got the boards out and removed the battery pack. I > ended up using White Vinegar to clean up the mess the batteries had made. > Seems to have worked OK. I had to do this to mine. Make sure you also cleaned the "mother" board (one with all the sockets in it) as well as the IO board that had those nasty batteries in it. > Now I've got a problem. How do I go about replacing the four batteries in > the pack? I've no idea what they were rated at. Do I need replace them? > I noticed an On/Off switch next to them, any ideas what it's for? The batteries aren't exactly necessary. They're just there to keep the clock goign and various settings set whenever you unplug the machine. As long as she stays plugged in, these things will stay set. Apple figured out that those batteries sucked, and so the Lisa 2/10 and Mac XL (bastardized Lisa) don't have them. They just lose their clock & stuff when you unplug them or the power goes out. So I wouldn't sweat replacing them... they're more or less just cosmetic. However, I'd bet that you could solder in a battery pack with alkalines in it or something if you were moving your Lisa a lot (Why? she weighs like 60 lbs!!) or your power went out a lot (yikes! protect her from surges!). But it might not be worth the risk of screwing up your precious machine. The On/Off switch is to switch for the recharge circuitry. I'd recomend putting it in the off position. That big red coil and the huge black capacitor at the upper-right hand corner of the IO board is the recharge circuitry, BTW. Good luck in getting your Lisa cleaned up and going! Where did you get her and (if you don't mind me asking) how much did she set you back? (you can e-mail me directly if you've already told the story over the mailing list -- I've been off the list for a while) Oh, and if anyone has a Lisa Lite (Sony floppy controller) that they don't want, I'm sure that my little Lisa 2/5 would be very happy to be working again. :( chris starling starling@umr.edu From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Sep 22 20:57:53 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: >>But as far as that sort of stuff goes, I'm with Kai. Of course, I'm on >>the west coast as well. I can find stuff like C64, Atari 800, TI-99/4a, >>etc. in thrift shops for anywhere from $.99 to $2.98. Not bad. :) I've had a good run at thrift stores myself. Other than A Commodore 64-SX for $20, I picked up a Tandy TRS-80 Model 4P for $5, a VIC-20 (with 11 carts) for $5, and my Honeywell Microsystem 6 for $20. Whoever invented thrift stores was a very clever person. Adam. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 22 20:50:21 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970923015021.00682818@pop3.concentric.net> I can get cables, power supplies , and other items for all the units talk about send me a e-mail at jrkeys@concentric.net with your list of needs. We can trade if you extra items to trade with. At 06:20 PM 9/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >>But as far as that sort of stuff goes, I'm with Kai. Of course, I'm on >>the west coast as well. I can find stuff like C64, Atari 800, TI-99/4a, >>etc. in thrift shops for anywhere from $.99 to $2.98. > >I guess I'm in the wrong part of the West Coast! In the Portland area I've >only gotten lucky enough to find stuff that cheep once or twice. Plus it >seems like most stuff is either a C64, a 1541 drive, or a TI-99/4a, and >they are always bare. You can't find stuff like power supplies, cables, or >whatever else it takes to make them function without a LOT of looking. The >average price at GW in this area for any item of this class is about $10! >I think my best find ever around here was a TI-99/4a with PS, modulator, >cassette cable, and 3 carts (which included extended BASIC) for $4. >Needless to say this wasn't at GW it was another local Thrift Store which >happens to be litterly next door to GW. > > Zane > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | >+----------------------------------+---------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > > > > From MicroAge97 at aol.com Mon Sep 22 21:36:49 1997 From: MicroAge97 at aol.com (MicroAge97@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free Computer Books & Stuff!] Message-ID: <970922214645_1197300081@emout17.mail.aol.com> hello, i have seval apple lisa's(lisa 2's). there was a model that wouldn't keep time if they were unpluged. that's when they came up with the battery idea.... dave From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 22 22:20:59 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > I could use some advice here... > > I'm starting to sort through the misc. parts and accessories that I've > collected over the years and am wondering if certain things are really > worth keeping, such as: > > 1200 baud modems (Hayes external, Racal Vadic VA212LC) > CGA cards > Hercules and MDA mono cards > Generic XT floppy controllers Hold onto them for 10 more years and they're guaranteed to be classic. Who knows, you may be kicking yourself in ten years if you get rid of them now. On the other hand, you may end up wasting space for 10 years. It's up to you...how much do you like the stuff? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 22 22:23:48 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I guess I'm in the wrong part of the West Coast! In the Portland area I've > only gotten lucky enough to find stuff that cheep once or twice. Plus it > seems like most stuff is either a C64, a 1541 drive, or a TI-99/4a, and > they are always bare. You can't find stuff like power supplies, cables, or > whatever else it takes to make them function without a LOT of looking. The > average price at GW in this area for any item of this class is about $10! > I think my best find ever around here was a TI-99/4a with PS, modulator, > cassette cable, and 3 carts (which included extended BASIC) for $4. > Needless to say this wasn't at GW it was another local Thrift Store which > happens to be litterly next door to GW. Here's a hint for everyone...don't waste your time at Goodwill (well, usually). All the good stuff is at those for profit or non-chain thrift stores. Look for places like Thrift Town, Thrift Center, Thrift This, Thrift That, etc. I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never any hardware. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 22 22:48:07 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: S-100 system available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A friend has an S-100 machine available. It occupies a Paradynamics case, one of those on casters things, with a 20 slot backplane. Includes a couple of 8" floppies, a 70mb Priam HD, 4mb RAMdisk, Peak(?) 68008 board, and a Wyse VT-200 compatible terminal. Twelve of the twenty slots are filled. System does not boot from HD - lack of proper ROM. Hardware is located in San Diego. If anyone is interested, let me know and I will put you in direct contact with the owner. donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From donm at cts.com Mon Sep 22 22:53:46 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > I guess I'm in the wrong part of the West Coast! In the Portland area I've > > only gotten lucky enough to find stuff that cheep once or twice. Plus it > > seems like most stuff is either a C64, a 1541 drive, or a TI-99/4a, and > > they are always bare. You can't find stuff like power supplies, cables, or > > whatever else it takes to make them function without a LOT of looking. The > > average price at GW in this area for any item of this class is about $10! > > I think my best find ever around here was a TI-99/4a with PS, modulator, > > cassette cable, and 3 carts (which included extended BASIC) for $4. > > Needless to say this wasn't at GW it was another local Thrift Store which > > happens to be litterly next door to GW. > > Here's a hint for everyone...don't waste your time at Goodwill (well, > usually). All the good stuff is at those for profit or non-chain thrift > stores. Look for places like Thrift Town, Thrift Center, Thrift This, > Thrift That, etc. > > I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. > I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. > I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some > software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never > any hardware. I think it varies with the locale! In San Diego, Goodwill accumulates the donated hard/software and offers it up at a biennial sale. Now days, most of it is PC clone stuff, certainly, but 8-bit stuff does show up. There are some good buys and some lousy ones. Just like most sales! Salvation Army, on the other hand, apparently sells their donations through their stores as it comes in and is priced. Pretty skinny market, as I see it. - don > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Mon Sep 22 22:36:44 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970923033644.00868b60@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 08:54 PM 22/09/97 -0300, you wrote: >I could use some advice here... > >I'm starting to sort through the misc. parts and accessories that I've >collected over the years and am wondering if certain things are really >worth keeping, such as: > > 1200 baud modems (Hayes external, Racal Vadic VA212LC) > CGA cards > Hercules and MDA mono cards > Generic XT floppy controllers > 1200 baud external modems? Hell yes keep them! You never know when they will come handy, i wish i had a few lying around now. Great for Minix boxes to check your mail... As for the assorted cards, well i am going to use the mass of cards i have here to bolt into my stell shelf units as book ends (i am going for the "inside the mainframe" look in my apartment :) "Linux users are people who would convince you that 10 steps are better than one" ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Sep 22 23:30:05 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970922213005.0435a520@agora.rdrop.com> At 08:23 PM 9/22/97 -0700, Sam wrote: > >Here's a hint for everyone...don't waste your time at Goodwill (well, >usually). All the good stuff is at those for profit or non-chain thrift >stores. Look for places like Thrift Town, Thrift Center, Thrift This, >Thrift That, etc. > >I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. >I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. >I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some >software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never >any hardware. Interesting... The local Goodwill here (at least to date) has been one of my most reliable sources of gear. Over the last couple of weeks, a Mac II cpu, pile of Mac ADB keyboards and mice, assorted Commodore gear, etc... Now on the other hand, the Salvation Army store could not sell gear to Bill Gates based on the way they price stuff. An Apple IIgs for $495?!? Really now... Guess like with most things, it's largely regional. (your mileage may vary) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 22 23:41:08 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Help out Goodwill References: Message-ID: <34274864.2F9989AC@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. > I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. > I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some > software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never > any hardware. A friend of mine gave me a really good idea. In our area Goodwill does auction off a bunch of stuff every Tuesday and Thursday mornings at 8:30AM. The idea is to go in and help them to work on the computers. This accomplishes a number of things. 1) It can help train some of the people they are trying to help. 2) Fixed machines are worth more money hence a larger income for Goodwill. 3) If we are helping, we will most likely have the opportunity to see what is coming in and thus might be able to salvage some classic machines! From marvin at rain.org Tue Sep 23 01:00:54 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Acquired last weekend References: <1.5.4.32.19970922212858.0068b888@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <34275B15.2BEB47A8@rain.org> The show I was working on turned out pretty well. I got to meet a lot of people as well as a couple looking to get rid of their older computers. One gentleman I talked with had an older CompuPro to get rid of so I picked it up Sunday. Although the case has no model no. on the front, it looks like one of the 8/16 and came with the main box, disk drives, HD, open frame monitor, and a Heathkit H-25 printer along with disks and documentation. It was really fun to meet all the people that were familar with the classic computers! It looks like we even got several that may start coming to our meetings. From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 23 01:30:25 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: Ok, I went out and rented _War Games_ because I'm a total nerd and wanted to see David's IMSAI. I noticed a couple interesting things in the movie. First, in one scene early on where david is sitting in front of his computer, they show it head on, and you can see sitting on top of his monitor his modem, which had on it "IMSAI 212A MODEM". Did IMSA, in fact, manufacture a 1200 baud modem? He also had an IMSAI labeled keyboard! A neat thing: at the end of the movie during the credits they get to thanking those who provided technical assistance. The first company listed is none other than "CompuPro Division, Godbout Electronics". Very cool! Others listed were Televideo, Fischer-Freitas (why does that sound familiar and did I get the Fischer part right?), Memorex, Qume, and about 10 others. Anyway, pretty cool flick. It combines elements of hacking, phreaking (where he grounds the microphone on the old ground-start payphone, a real ball-sy scene since that was a real-life trick you could pull in those days) and of course classic computers! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From pcoad at crl.com Tue Sep 23 01:56:24 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. > > I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. > > I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some > > software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never > > any hardware. > > I think it varies with the locale! In San Diego, Goodwill accumulates > the donated hard/software and offers it up at a biennial sale. Now days, > most of it is PC clone stuff, certainly, but 8-bit stuff does show up. > There are some good buys and some lousy ones. Just like most sales! > > Salvation Army, on the other hand, apparently sells their donations > through their stores as it comes in and is priced. Pretty skinny market, > as I see it. This explains why my quick visits to SD Goodwills were so disappointing. The one I went to (on Rosecranz) had only a few things with plugs. The the local one is the same way: clothes, glass, and a few books. I hit another thrift in SD which was the smallest I have ever seen. It could not have been more than 200 square feet. It was a total bust. Don, how about letting us know when the GW auctions are held? I get sent down there 5-8 times a year and once in a while I squeeze in a little scrounging. I'm usually in the Point Loma area, are there any worthwhile places nearby which might yield some classic stuff? --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Tue Sep 23 03:37:34 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games References: <199709230702.AAA02461@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34277FCE.16CDF8A@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Recently Sam remarked: >A neat thing: at the end of the movie during the credits they get to >thanking those who provided technical assistance. The first company >listed is none other than "CompuPro Division, Godbout Electronics". >Very >cool! Others listed were Televideo, Fischer-Freitas (why does that >sound It may have been Fisher (I'll check at lunch today, but they were ex IMSAI employees who set up in business after IMSAI's demise supporting the old machines. Just read "Fire in the Valley" ;-) >familiar and did I get the Fischer part right?), Memorex, Qume, and Hans From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 23 06:25:01 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970923112501.00682ec0@pop3.concentric.net> Sorry you feel that way as I find a ton of items at the GW, such hardware, manuals, parts (new and used), and software (new and used). The prices range from .25 to 35.00. At 08:23 PM 9/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> I guess I'm in the wrong part of the West Coast! In the Portland area I've >> only gotten lucky enough to find stuff that cheep once or twice. Plus it >> seems like most stuff is either a C64, a 1541 drive, or a TI-99/4a, and >> they are always bare. You can't find stuff like power supplies, cables, or >> whatever else it takes to make them function without a LOT of looking. The >> average price at GW in this area for any item of this class is about $10! >> I think my best find ever around here was a TI-99/4a with PS, modulator, >> cassette cable, and 3 carts (which included extended BASIC) for $4. >> Needless to say this wasn't at GW it was another local Thrift Store which >> happens to be litterly next door to GW. > >Here's a hint for everyone...don't waste your time at Goodwill (well, >usually). All the good stuff is at those for profit or non-chain thrift >stores. Look for places like Thrift Town, Thrift Center, Thrift This, >Thrift That, etc. > >I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. >I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. >I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some >software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never >any hardware. > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 23 06:29:49 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Help out Goodwill Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970923112949.0067f024@pop3.concentric.net> This sounds like the Houston GW ?? I lived there a few years back and was a great place to find items. I like your help idea may try it here. At 09:41 PM 9/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >Sam Ismail wrote: > >> I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. >> I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. >> I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some >> software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never >> any hardware. > >A friend of mine gave me a really good idea. In our area Goodwill does >auction off a bunch of stuff every Tuesday and Thursday mornings at 8:30AM. >The idea is to go in and help them to work on the computers. This >accomplishes a number of things. 1) It can help train some of the people >they are trying to help. 2) Fixed machines are worth more money hence a >larger income for Goodwill. 3) If we are helping, we will most likely have >the opportunity to see what is coming in and thus might be able to salvage >some classic machines! > > > > From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 23 07:26:26 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: IBM System/38 Free to Good Home Message-ID: <199709231232.FAA10710@mx2.u.washington.edu> > >What happens when you boot up CP/M on the PC? It sounds rather >interesting. > You get an A: (or C:) prompt. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Sep 23 08:16:02 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <970923091509_-899855632@emout15.mail.aol.com> Actually, I've had great success at goodwill here on the east coast. i picked up a complete platinum //e machine, a colour composite monitor with two undisk 5.25 drives, a trs80 model 3, an IBM PC RT, and the rare printer attachment for my pc convertible and my uVAX II ! the pickings have been slow lately, but its always a luck of the draw kind of thing. i usually hit the stores about once a week and hope for the best. I regret not getting a plus/4 i saw in the original box last month. david In a message dated 97-09-22 23:33:48 EDT, Sam Ismail put forth: << Here's a hint for everyone...don't waste your time at Goodwill (well, usually). All the good stuff is at those for profit or non-chain thrift stores. Look for places like Thrift Town, Thrift Center, Thrift This, Thrift That, etc. I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never any hardware. >> From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 23 10:06:35 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <34277FCE.16CDF8A@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Hans Pufal wrote: > >A neat thing: at the end of the movie during the credits they get to > >thanking those who provided technical assistance. The first company > >listed is none other than "CompuPro Division, Godbout Electronics". >Very > >cool! Others listed were Televideo, Fischer-Freitas (why does that >sound > > It may have been Fisher (I'll check at lunch today, but they were ex > IMSAI employees who set up in business after IMSAI's demise supporting > the old machines. Just read "Fire in the Valley" ;-) One thing I forgot to mention that is also interesting is that there was absolutely no mention of IMSAI in the credits! Not that I saw at least. Perhaps it was the Fisher-Freitas guys who snuck the IMSAI into the movie? What's neat is that this movie came out in 1983, probably filmed in 1982 or so. This is still nearly 3 years after the heyday of the IMSAI. Well, maybe not, but when you think of it in terms of the fact that the Apple was pretty much THE home computer, and Atari and Commodore were also a presence, its interesting they chose to use an IMSAI. Ithink it was very cool that they chose to use an IMSAI. Maybe its because they were trying to convey that David had some big, powerful computer. They would have done well using an Apple as they could've had all the necessary peripherals to pull it off (voice synth, etc) and everyone could relate to it. An Atari or Commodore setup would not have looked nearly as impressive, and besides, only weenies hacked from Ataris or Commodores :) Maybe they chose an IMSAI because not many people in the general public had one at that point (most people had Apples or TRS-80s or what-not) and they wanted to make David's exploits more plausible by the fact that he had this big, powerful looking computer with lights and switches on it? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Sep 23 10:37:10 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > What's neat is that this movie came out in 1983, probably filmed in 1982 > or so. This is still nearly 3 years after the heyday of the IMSAI. > Well, maybe not, but when you think of it in terms of the fact that the > Apple was pretty much THE home computer, and Atari and Commodore were > also a presence, its interesting they chose to use an IMSAI. Ithink it > was very cool that they chose to use an IMSAI. Maybe its because they > were trying to convey that David had some big, powerful computer. Did it strike anybody as odd that while David was seen to turn the IMSAI CPU on at various times, he never once turned on the disk drives? B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From scott at saskatoon.com Tue Sep 23 10:45:23 1997 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, James Willing wrote: >Did it strike anybody as odd that while David was seen to turn the IMSAI >CPU on at various times, he never once turned on the disk drives? B^} Ya. I submitted that to IMDB a while ago, I'm not sure if they've put it in their listing. srw From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Tue Sep 23 11:47:28 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Radio SShack Model 100 on AuctionWeb Message-ID: <3427F2A0.2DB1@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, I'm trying not to buy too much more of this stuff but this guy made me a heck of a deal on a Model 100 along with a video camera I wanted. I put it in the auction. It's really nice and is still in the original box! Radio Shack Model 100 Laptop Computer (photo) Current bid: $42.01 Auction ends on: 09/28/97, 14:36:03 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=511656 From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 23 09:56:44 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <199709231655.JAA21333@mx5.u.washington.edu> >> I'm starting to sort through the misc. parts and accessories that I've >> collected over the years and am wondering if certain things are really >> worth keeping, such as: >> >> 1200 baud modems (Hayes external, Racal Vadic VA212LC) >> CGA cards >> Hercules and MDA mono cards >> Generic XT floppy controllers To put in my 2 cents' worth... Up until last year, I sold XT's pretty regularly. This year, I sold two. I *do* still see some acquired out there (last Sunday, I set up a PC for a friend and her kids...she bought it for $9 at an auction) and many of my customers still have the older stuff (good grief -- we still have a couple Epson QX-10's around, in this hick town!) Motherboards are gonna start going rapidly pretty soon, and monitors...nobody makes CGA anymore that I know of...what user (versus collector) is gonna replace a CGA with VGA on an XT? He'll junk the whole thing, and buy a Packard Bell at Wal-Mart (and use it to play Solitaire.) Worth keeping? I think so. Boards don't take up a whole lot of space, and you're going to make a collector *very* happy some day. (I'd take your boards, except that I've already got plenty.) But, it'll be a long time before you sell them! From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 23 11:56:36 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363FBF@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Believe it or not, all of the war room displays were generated by 4 CompuPro S-100 boxes with MicroAngelo graphics cards; thus the Godbout/CompuPro inclusion in the credits. Kai > ---------- > From: Sam Ismail[SMTP:dastar@crl.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, September 22, 1997 11:30 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: War Games > > > Ok, I went out and rented _War Games_ because I'm a total nerd and > wanted > to see David's IMSAI. I noticed a couple interesting things in the > movie. First, in one scene early on where david is sitting in front > of > his computer, they show it head on, and you can see sitting on top of > his > monitor his modem, which had on it "IMSAI 212A MODEM". Did IMSA, in > fact, manufacture a 1200 baud modem? He also had an IMSAI labeled > keyboard! > > A neat thing: at the end of the movie during the credits they get to > thanking those who provided technical assistance. The first company > listed is none other than "CompuPro Division, Godbout Electronics". > Very > cool! Others listed were Televideo, Fischer-Freitas (why does that > sound > familiar and did I get the Fischer part right?), Memorex, Qume, and > about > 10 others. > > Anyway, pretty cool flick. It combines elements of hacking, phreaking > > (where he grounds the microphone on the old ground-start payphone, a > real > ball-sy scene since that was a real-life trick you could pull in those > > days) and of course classic computers! > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: > dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, > Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 23 12:01:41 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363FC5@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > > > I could use some advice here... > > > > I'm starting to sort through the misc. parts and accessories that > I've > > collected over the years and am wondering if certain things are > really > > worth keeping, such as: > > > > 1200 baud modems (Hayes external, Racal Vadic VA212LC) > 1200 bps modems are unlikely to ever be collectible. 300 baud acoustic coupled are worth keeping, plus the first Hayes SmartModem. > > CGA cards > Actual IBM CGA cards are a must-keep. > > Hercules and MDA mono cards > Original Hercules brand cards (as opposed to compatible) and IBM Monochrome Display Adapter cards are also must-keeps. > > Generic XT floppy controllers > Genuine IBM floppy controllers should be saved. Kai From s-ware at nwu.edu Tue Sep 23 12:10:38 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970922213005.0435a520@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, James Willing wrote: > Now on the other hand, the Salvation Army store could not sell gear to Bill > Gates based on the way they price stuff. An Apple IIgs for $495?!? Really > now... Here (in Chicago), the Salvation Army store that carries computer equipment tends to price everything computer-related at $45, regardless of what it is. There was (until it recently closed) a Salvation Army "as-is" store in the building with one of their warehouses that had some great deals, primarily on items that they couldn't easily classify. It may be worth looking for these in other cities, since the one here had items such as oscilloscopes and Nixie tube DMMs that never made it into the normal stores. Sometimes, thrift store pricing and procedures are hard to understand. I once saw a thrift store employee deliberately damaging items with a hammer before marking them down. I guess the theory is that you don't deserve all of the keys if you're paying $2 for a computer instead of $20. Is anyone else here recognized as "the computer guy" at thrift stores? At one store (admittedly only a block from my apartment, so I visit it regularly), they save documentation for me and often mark down computer equipment the day after I've passed it up. Prices have risen slightly since they've realized that there is demand, but they seem to be stocking more old computer equipment now, and if something is too expensive, it's easy to wait a day or two! -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From kevan at heydon.org Tue Sep 23 12:17:40 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:04 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709231717.SAA17493@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Sam wrote: > > Maybe they chose an IMSAI because not many people in the general public > had one at that point (most people had Apples or TRS-80s or what-not) and > they wanted to make David's exploits more plausible by the fact that he > had this big, powerful looking computer with lights and switches on it? > I guess for similar reasons they used a Memotech MTX512 as the computer that generated the woman in the film Weird Science. I don't think that the Memotech range ever made it to the US so it would have appeared as some sort of powerfull computer - certainly the graphics it was shown to display were well beyond its capabilities. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Sep 23 12:21:46 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <199709231723.MAA24299@sunflower.com> Yeah Im the "computer guy" at the salvation army store I frequent. I think i've yet to pay full price for anything yet. I like to "haggle" ---------- > From: Scott Ware > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . > Date: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 12:10 PM > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, James Willing wrote: > > > Now on the other hand, the Salvation Army store could not sell gear to Bill > > Gates based on the way they price stuff. An Apple IIgs for $495?!? Really > > now... > > Here (in Chicago), the Salvation Army store that carries computer > equipment tends to price everything computer-related at $45, regardless of > what it is. There was (until it recently closed) a Salvation Army "as-is" > store in the building with one of their warehouses that had some great > deals, primarily on items that they couldn't easily classify. It may be > worth looking for these in other cities, since the one here had items such > as oscilloscopes and Nixie tube DMMs that never made it into the normal > stores. > > Sometimes, thrift store pricing and procedures are hard to understand. I > once saw a thrift store employee deliberately damaging items with a hammer > before marking them down. I guess the theory is that you don't deserve > all of the keys if you're paying $2 for a computer instead of $20. > > Is anyone else here recognized as "the computer guy" at thrift stores? At > one store (admittedly only a block from my apartment, so I visit it > regularly), they save documentation for me and often mark down computer > equipment the day after I've passed it up. Prices have risen slightly > since they've realized that there is demand, but they seem to be stocking > more old computer equipment now, and if something is too expensive, it's > easy to wait a day or two! > > -- > Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu > > > From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Sep 23 12:28:34 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363FC5@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: [...] > > > CGA cards > > > Actual IBM CGA cards are a must-keep. > > > > Hercules and MDA mono cards > > > Original Hercules brand cards (as opposed to compatible) and IBM > Monochrome Display Adapter cards are also must-keeps. > > > > Generic XT floppy controllers > > > Genuine IBM floppy controllers should be saved. IMHO _all_ genuine IBM cards should be saved. I always dig through the 'any card 1 pound' box at radio rallies (hamfests) looking for such things. IBM cards have the advantage that they can be repaired (I have an almost-complete set of TechRefs). IMHO collectors will want early genuine IBM PC bits in the future. Just like some people will pay for Altair bits today. There are a few IBM cards that I've never seen and would love to get. Top of my list is a PGC (professional graphics controller) - a 2 board set that contained an 8088-based graphics accellerator. It emulated a CGA card (I think) but had extra modes as well. Another thing I would like is a Data Aquisition and Control adapter. > > Kai -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Sep 23 12:41:11 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: <199709210613.XAA10131@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > > With all of the commotion on pdp8-lovers concerning old HP stuff in > > Michigan, I decided to take a look at what I have. I have no software or > > paper with my "pile" (no rack, that was kept by the previous owner), so I > > am basically stupid about the thing. Maybe someone can help. I also found an HP2100 in a skip (dumpster) about 5 years ago. I was allowed to rescue it, and it now sits in my workshop awaiting restoration. Alas I got no manuals at all with it. [...] > > 7900A Disk Drive #1527A04334 Is that the RK05-like thing with one removeable pack and 1 fixed platter? If so, I found one too, but the front casting got mangled when it was removed from the rack. Alas I didn't get a PSU for it. > > 2895B Tape Punch #1632A03303 FACIT model 4070 > > Yep, this is a badge-engineered Facit paper-tape punch. A useful trick with these is that it's easy to change a couple of components and slow them down from 75cps to 50cps (the speed they run at when manually feeding anyway). This allows them to work correctly even with a worn-out motor brake - since spares are _very_ expensive, and a working 50cps punch is still quite useful - I do this rather than replace the brake assy. > > 2748A Tape Reader #1133A01747 "System Serial 0815F" Found one of those with the 2100A as well. > > Inside the 2100A are cards: > > [elided] > > In row 1, A1 through A9 are the CPU. I am thinking that A9 and maybe > A8 are options (DMA?), but will need to pull manuals to look. My machine seems to have the CPU cards (a label on one them says 'FP ROMs fitted' I think), the memory area is full (although I'm missing one 'over the top' connector from one of the core boards) and I have a fair amount of I/O (disk controller, 8 bit I/O, 16 bit I/O, relay card (?), timebase generator, tty, plotter, etc). What I don't have is any manuals. I've read the excellent web site, but I really need the PSU and system schematics. HP can no longer supply them AFAIK. > -Frank McConnell -tony From marvin at rain.org Tue Sep 23 12:39:13 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? References: Message-ID: <3427FEC1.E7E78B09@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > IMHO _all_ genuine IBM cards should be saved. I always dig through the > 'any card 1 pound' box at radio rallies (hamfests) looking for such > things. IBM cards have the advantage that they can be repaired (I have an > almost-complete set of TechRefs). I agree fully! One thing I seldom find is the documentation that went with the cards. I have been stashing IBM stuff for a while and figure I am just looking far into the future :). > IMHO collectors will want early genuine IBM PC bits in the future. Just > like some people will pay for Altair bits today. > > There are a few IBM cards that I've never seen and would love to get. Top > of my list is a PGC (professional graphics controller) - a 2 board set > that contained an 8088-based graphics accellerator. It emulated a CGA card > > (I think) but had extra modes as well. Another thing I would like is a > Data Aquisition and Control adapter. I acquired one of the PGA boards and I passed up an opportunity a couple of years ago to get the IBM monitor that went with it. BTW, I am assuming here that what you are referring to as PGC is the same thing I am referring to as PGA. I see them occasionally and will keep you in mind the next time I find one if you like. From chemif at mbox.queen.it Tue Sep 23 19:40:21 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo Romagnoli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363D0E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.16.19970923194021.21b73cd0@mbox.queen.it> At 16.41 22/09/97 -0600, Jeff wrote: > >I dunno about this guy, but I'm in the Midwest. It can be pretty >slim pickens out here. The thrift down the street from where I live >is asking $10 for 1541's and 1571's. Too steep. I wait for the >price to go down . . . . !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? 10 Dollars = Too steep??? Are you joking? I must convince myself that U.S. are the cheapest place in the world for everything! Here in Forl?, where I live, you can get a 1541 at no less than 60$. 1571 nearly the double! If I will take a chance to come there i think I will fill luggages of that stuff! Ciao. Riccardo From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Sep 23 12:45:09 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Nova 1210 Message-ID: I was walking past the scrap pile a few weeks back when I saw a large PCB that appeared to be part of a DG Nova system. Digging a little further produced another 3 boards, the cabinet/PSU (alas missing the fan), and the frontpanel bezel. This identified the machine as a DG Nova 1210. Since there are only 4 slots in the backplane, I think I have all the cards. What I have is a Nova CPU board (with _1_ 74181 - did this machine really have a 4 bit ALU?), a core memory board and 2 custom I/O boards (missing a few TTL chips, but the locations are labeled with the 74xx number, so that's no problem). I am missing the lights/switches board. Does anyone know anything about this machine? I assume it's worth saving. A schematic would be useful (or at least a description of the frontpanel board and its interface), since then I could probably recreate the front panel and get it running again. -tony From engine at chac.org Tue Sep 23 12:14:51 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: URLs always wanted Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970923101439.00ef2b70@pop.batnet.com> Hi, I'm thoroughly enjoying being here and I just wanted to remind everybody that our history page, http://www.chac.org/chhistpg.html , is perennially in need of new links. As an example, we haven't found a single site yet that's devoted to classic laptops. I'd also appreciate any suggestion of a good win32 link-checking bot because this page has gotten far, far too voluminous to check by hand. Finally, thanks for all the Apple ][ material -- I'm still sifting through it. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From william at ans.net Tue Sep 23 13:01:27 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I also found an HP2100 in a skip (dumpster) about 5 years ago. I was > allowed to rescue it, and it now sits in my workshop awaiting restoration. > Alas I got no manuals at all with it. That is how I found my PDP-8/e. > Is that the RK05-like thing with one removeable pack and 1 fixed platter? > If so, I found one too, but the front casting got mangled when it was > removed from the rack. Alas I didn't get a PSU for it. Yes, I think so, but I have never opened it up, nor powered it on. It would be nice if the thing had a permanent disk with useful software on it. > > > 2895B Tape Punch #1632A03303 FACIT model 4070 > > > > Yep, this is a badge-engineered Facit paper-tape punch. Mine came with some sort of rack mount kit that I have not been able to comprehend yet. I think I am missing parts. > > > 2748A Tape Reader #1133A01747 "System Serial 0815F" > > Found one of those with the 2100A as well. Can this thing be used with other stuff? My only good paper tape reader is in a rack with a PDP-8/s, and my Teletype may be a bit rough on old tapes. I would like to get something over to RCS/RI, as we have a working PDP-12 that wants software. > What I don't have is any manuals. I've read the excellent web site, but I > really need the PSU and system schematics. HP can no longer supply them > AFAIK. My sense (i.e. ears) tell me that the power supply is a switching type, probably one of the first for computers, an is probably a bear to fix. Of course, all of the house numbered HP parts does not help either. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Sep 23 13:16:46 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > > 2895B Tape Punch #1632A03303 FACIT model 4070 > > > > > > Yep, this is a badge-engineered Facit paper-tape punch. > > Mine came with some sort of rack mount kit that I have not been able to > comprehend yet. I think I am missing parts. There is a rackmount kit shown in the Facit 4070 service manual/parts catalogue (which I have). I can look up how that one goes together and post details. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Sep 23 13:19:26 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: <199709231819.AA15417@world.std.com> <> What's neat is that this movie came out in 1983, probably filmed in 1982 <> or so. This is still nearly 3 years after the heyday of the IMSAI. Filming likely started in '81 and extended into '82. At that time you had altair (way off the their time), IMSAI, TRS80, Apple][, early PC, atari, commodore, various S100 crates, and some minis to pick from. What the imsai had was a colorful pannel with blinking lights, the only other one that matched that were Ithaca Intersystems s100 crates, and minis most of wich were no longer FP machines. The kid was not supposed to own a mini as a budding hacker. Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Believe it or not, all of the war room displays were generated by 4 > CompuPro S-100 boxes with MicroAngelo graphics cards; thus the > Godbout/CompuPro inclusion in the credits. COOL! I was wondering what system they used to do all those graphics. That's pretty damn impressive for two decade old micro-computer technology. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Sep 23 13:45:11 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: URLs always wanted In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970923101439.00ef2b70@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970923144511.00980660@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Kip Crosby said: >I'm thoroughly enjoying being here and I just wanted to remind everybody >that our history page, http://www.chac.org/chhistpg.html , is perennially >in need of new links. As an example, we haven't found a single site yet >that's devoted to classic laptops. Glad you enjoy! Altho my page is not dedicated to laptops, it is a geezer machine page, with laptop links on it... you can find it here: http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/geezers.shtml I don't get the time to update it often, as I do web page design for a living, and rarely feel like mucking around with HTML with my sparse free time... I do have 2 classic laptops, a Tandy 200 and a Tandy 600, and love 'em both! I also run 2 mailing lists for Tandy laptops, the Model 100 list and the Model 600 list. To subscribe via the web to the M100 list, go here: http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/signupform.html to sign up for the Model 600 mailing list, go here: http://home.northernway.net/~zmerch/signupm600.html Questions about these lists can be posed to me, Roger Merchberger, at zmerch@northernway.net. For other Tandy 100/102/200 pages, try here: http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html The site owner here is Rick Hanson (read: good guy), and he _still_ makes a living by supporting the "Model 'T'" machines! Very nice site. Or try here: http://www.tmne.com/~tmne/ Mike Nugent runs this site... also a neat guy. He makes a living supporting corporate accounts with Model 'T's (read: big, big quantities) but still helps out the "little guy" a lot. >I'd also appreciate any suggestion of a good win32 link-checking bot >because this page has gotten far, far too voluminous to check by hand. Give me a few months, and I _might_ be able to write one... Give me some money, and I could guarantee speedier turnaround! ;-) One caveat: it would work from Unix. It _might_ work from NT if you have NT's version of Perl. I don't know if Perl runs under '95 or not... Anyway, enjoy the links! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 23 13:51:09 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <199709231819.AA15417@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > He did a lot of majik that was technically suspect! Most secure systems > back then would at best give you three tries at the password and drop you > and if you tried the account within 15 minutes you were again dropped and > the timer reset. The was to prevent cracking via successive tries. That > was an example of commercial systems, secure military would not even have > outside access that wasn't encrypted and highly secure. They explained that away in the movie by blaming it on the phone company for not disconnecting the line several years before like they were supposed to. And I don't know of a login paradigm where you can type "HELP GAMES" and get a list og games to play. How a staff of government programmers could overlook a security crater opening like that stretches the imagination. But anyway, if nerds like us made a computer movie nobody would go to see it because it would be way too over their heads. Not that a technically plausible movie that is also easy to understand is impossible to make though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From donm at cts.com Tue Sep 23 14:02:29 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Paul E Coad wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > > I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. > > > I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. > > > I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some > > > software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never > > > any hardware. > > > > I think it varies with the locale! In San Diego, Goodwill accumulates > > the donated hard/software and offers it up at a biennial sale. Now days, > > most of it is PC clone stuff, certainly, but 8-bit stuff does show up. > > There are some good buys and some lousy ones. Just like most sales! > > > > Salvation Army, on the other hand, apparently sells their donations > > through their stores as it comes in and is priced. Pretty skinny market, > > as I see it. > > This explains why my quick visits to SD Goodwills were so disappointing. > The one I went to (on Rosecranz) had only a few things with plugs. > The the local one is the same way: clothes, glass, and a few books. > I hit another thrift in SD which was the smallest I have ever seen. > It could not have been more than 200 square feet. It was a total > bust. > > Don, how about letting us know when the GW auctions are held? I get > sent down there 5-8 times a year and once in a while I squeeze in > a little scrounging. I'm usually in the Point Loma area, are there > any worthwhile places nearby which might yield some classic stuff? > > --pec I'll be happy to if I can. For reasons not at all obvious to me, they are frequent very late in getting word around and rather skimpy in where they place it. - don > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Sep 23 14:02:40 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > And I don't know of a login paradigm where you can type "HELP GAMES" and > get a list og games to play. How a staff of government programmers could > overlook a security crater opening like that stretches the imagination. TOPS-20 lets you get help from the login prompt, and do SYSTAT and a few other things... Maybe WOPR had a PDP-10 inside? I know because I have a TOPS-20 account. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 14:09:11 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > monitor his modem, which had on it "IMSAI 212A MODEM". Did IMSA, in > fact, manufacture a 1200 baud modem? He also had an IMSAI labeled keyboard! > Having seen Wargames no fewer than 100 times (I was 14 or 15 when it came out and I was a nerd) I would like to make several comments: First, why use a 300 baud acoustic coupler (which strangely seems to operate at 300, 1200, 2400, 9600, 19200 and 38400 during different scenes) when you've got a perfectly good 1200 baud direct connect sitting on the monitor? Secondly, in the scene when WOPR CALLS HIM BACK and he looks all freaked and pulls the plug out of the phone, how does the game timer keep running AFTER he has disconnected from WOPR? Thirdly, the cheapy paperback book made when the movie came out, based on the movie, descibes a much more hackeresque computer in his room...it describes how he put it together with "chewing gum and baling wire" and how Malvin and Jim Sting helped him with parts and advice and how he learned more spending one summer with them at the computer center than he had in a year in Mr. Liggett's biology class. Fourthly, not directly related but it seems that every few years a counter-culture type movie comes out that inspires tech-heads to go "Free the World" 1983 - Wargames - Hackers 1991 - Pump Up the Volume - Pirate Radio DJs (read alt.radio.pirate) 1996 - The Craft - Counter-Culture Religion > A neat thing: at the end of the movie during the credits they get to > thanking those who provided technical assistance. The first company > listed is none other than "CompuPro Division, Godbout Electronics". Very > cool! Others listed were Televideo, Fischer-Freitas (why does that sound > familiar and did I get the Fischer part right?), Memorex, Qume, and about > 10 others. > There's a reason CompuPro was thanked. I read in an article about 10 years ago that the monitor on David's desk was REALLY being driven by a CompuPro backstage, which was programmed to spew out his keystrokes whatever keys he pressed. Apparently, they used some memory mapped video card on which the scan rate could be modified (along with the monitor) to match synchronization from the film cameras. All the screens in the War Room were REAL BTW...they were driven by an HP Vector Graphics generator coupled with a video projector of some sort and then color was added in post-production. Although my memory of the article could be a bit off. Wargames STILL has the most REALISTIC (strangely, enough) computer special effects (screens, etc) of any movie ever...even with movies like Sneakers and The Net. > Anyway, pretty cool flick. It combines elements of hacking, phreaking > (where he grounds the microphone on the old ground-start payphone, a real > ball-sy scene since that was a real-life trick you could pull in those > days) and of course classic computers! It's important to remember that Wargames wasn't about hacking and computers. It was about the foolishness of the Cold War. Basically it says, "Hey if a dumb computer can figure out how stupid it is, why can't we?" BTW General Berringer's line (something like) "I don't know about you but I'm not about to trust the security of the nation to a SILICON diode!" has a real-life origin. There was, in fact, in the late 70s or very early 80s a false missile launch detection resulting from a fried passive component like a diode. Somewhere I have an article about it. In the book, when David walks in while Jim Sting is underneath his desk, he says "Hey Captain Crunch, I'm from Ma Bell and Boy is she pissed!" One other thought, another strangely realistic hacking sequence is in Real Genius (btw just found out that Jordon in Real Genius and Judy in Revenge of the Nerds were played by the same actress)...it's goofy in that Ollifeld is trying to break into a government computer trying passwords of AAAAAAAA, AAAAAAAB and so on...but the error responses are classic VAX/VMS. I occasionally have Hacker Movie nights where all my computer friends (some of whom were REAL hackers but I plead the fifth) come over and we watch Wargames and Johnny Mnemonic or The Net and Sneakers, etc etc. (Sandra Bullock in a black two-piece can come over and interface with me anytime!) =-) Anthony Clifton - Wirehead Prime From william at ans.net Tue Sep 23 14:19:39 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It's important to remember that Wargames wasn't about hacking and > computers. It was about the foolishness of the Cold War. Basically it > says, "Hey if a dumb computer can figure out how stupid it is, why can't > we?" BTW General Berringer's line (something like) "I don't know about > you but I'm not about to trust the security of the nation to a SILICON > diode!" has a real-life origin. There was, in fact, in the late 70s or > very early 80s a false missile launch detection resulting from a fried > passive component like a diode. Somewhere I have an article about it. It was traced to some "iffy" parts sold by National - probably simple glue. It tends to get mentioned in several engineering ethics textbooks. Wargames? Hated it. William Donzelli william@ans.net From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 14:24:22 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One thing I forgot to mention that is also interesting is that there was > absolutely no mention of IMSAI in the credits! Not that I saw at least. > What's neat is that this movie came out in 1983, probably filmed in 1982 > was very cool that they chose to use an IMSAI. Maybe its because they > were trying to convey that David had some big, powerful computer. I think they wanted the computer to look more hackeresque. In the screenplay, David built his computer from junk, cobbling it together over time, kinda hard to cobble an Apple case and motherboard over time. I don't think they wanted it to look big and powerful as much as complex and hackeresque. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Sep 23 14:44:25 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19970923194021.21b73cd0@mbox.queen.it> References: <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <9FBFE9A3DEB@ifrsys.com> You have to keep in mind though, that this Thrift Store stuff is strictly "as-is". If it dosen't work, or if it's flakey, tough luck guy, you bought it. Having been burned numerous times by paying too much for junk that flat out didn't work, I have resolved NEVER to pay more than $10 for disk drives (of any sort). Now if given the opportunity to test the suff before I buy, well, I'd probly pay more, but I usually just wait for the price to fall to some trivial amount. You know somebody who would pay $60 for a USED 1541? Hm, I wonder how hard it is to get past Italian Customs . . . Jeff > At 16.41 22/09/97 -0600, Jeff wrote: > > > >I dunno about this guy, but I'm in the Midwest. It can be pretty > >slim pickens out here. The thrift down the street from where I live > >is asking $10 for 1541's and 1571's. Too steep. I wait for the > >price to go down . . . . > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? > 10 Dollars = Too steep??? > Are you joking? > I must convince myself that U.S. are the cheapest place in the world for > everything! > Here in Forl?, where I live, you can get a 1541 at no less than 60$. > 1571 nearly the double! > If I will take a chance to come there i think I will fill luggages of that > stuff! > > Ciao. > > Riccardo > > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 14:29:15 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <199709231819.AA15417@world.std.com> Message-ID: > back then would at best give you three tries at the password and drop you > and if you tried the account within 15 minutes you were again dropped and > the timer reset. The was to prevent cracking via successive tries. That > was an example of commercial systems, secure military would not even have > outside access that wasn't encrypted and highly secure. Actually, the nerdy guy that ran WOPR said: "There was an open line at our Space Division in Sunnyvale. The phone company screwed up!" and "He used a password left by the original programmer. Now none of our guys even knew it was there." Basically, the movie wasn't saying he had particular hacking skill. Just that he got EXTREMELY lucky because he was looking for a computer games company in Sunnyvale. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime and Wargames Apologist From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 14:31:02 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > He did a lot of majik that was technically suspect! Most secure systems > > back then would at best give you three tries at the password and drop you > > and if you tried the account within 15 minutes you were again dropped and > And I don't know of a login paradigm where you can type "HELP GAMES" and > get a list og games to play. How a staff of government programmers could > overlook a security crater opening like that stretches the imagination. Actually, you could ask RSTS systems I believe for help at the login prompt. You could also say SYSTAT and get a list of processes/users etc if I recall correctly. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime and Wargames Apologist From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Tue Sep 23 15:33:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Intellivision stuff claimed! Message-ID: <01BCC83E.CA8FF1D0@hsmx21nt.hsd.utc.com> Allison, Can you send me a list of what you got? ---------- From: will emerson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Intellivision stuff claimed! Date: Saturday, September 13, 1997 8:40PM Hello Everyone, Allison Parent has taken over custody of the Intellivision stuff.. Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From donm at cts.com Tue Sep 23 16:08:06 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Paul E Coad wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > > > > > I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. > > > > I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. > > > > I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some > > > > software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never > > > > any hardware. > > > > > > I think it varies with the locale! In San Diego, Goodwill accumulates > > > the donated hard/software and offers it up at a biennial sale. Now days, > > > most of it is PC clone stuff, certainly, but 8-bit stuff does show up. > > > There are some good buys and some lousy ones. Just like most sales! > > > > > > Salvation Army, on the other hand, apparently sells their donations > > > through their stores as it comes in and is priced. Pretty skinny market, > > > as I see it. > > > > This explains why my quick visits to SD Goodwills were so disappointing. > > The one I went to (on Rosecranz) had only a few things with plugs. > > The the local one is the same way: clothes, glass, and a few books. > > I hit another thrift in SD which was the smallest I have ever seen. > > It could not have been more than 200 square feet. It was a total > > bust. > > > > Don, how about letting us know when the GW auctions are held? I get > > sent down there 5-8 times a year and once in a while I squeeze in > > a little scrounging. I'm usually in the Point Loma area, are there > > any worthwhile places nearby which might yield some classic stuff? > > > > --pec Forgot to answer the Point Loma query :( No, sorry, I do not. When Goodwill has their sales they are held in their downtown warehouse on 4th in the Gaslamp area. - don > I'll be happy to if I can. For reasons not at all obvious to me, they > are frequent very late in getting word around and rather skimpy in where > they place it. > - don > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html > > > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 23 16:07:34 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <199709232136.OAA08734@mx3.u.washington.edu> >There are a few IBM cards that I've never seen and would love to get. Top >of my list is a PGC (professional graphics controller) - a 2 board set >that contained an 8088-based graphics accellerator. It emulated a CGA card >(I think) but had extra modes as well. Another thing I would like is a >Data Aquisition and Control adapter. I have boxes of unclssified PC cards. If you would describe what you wani, I could dig through and see if I come up with wahat you covet. You never know what you'll turn up. I even snagged an ST-412, which I'll put in my "original" PC, when I get around to it. (except I don't have any Xybec HDD controllers. Anyone have one cheap?) Manney From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Sep 23 16:54:49 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970922213005.0435a520@agora.rdrop.com> References: Message-ID: >At 08:23 PM 9/22/97 -0700, Sam wrote: >> >>I've heard that Goodwills take all the computer junk and auction it off. >>I never, ever find any computer stuff at Goodwills or Salvation Army's. >>I used to find stuff at the Salvation Army, and occasionally find some >>software (found an MSX cassette of all things at one recently) but never >>any hardware. > >Interesting... The local Goodwill here (at least to date) has been one of >my most reliable sources of gear. Over the last couple of weeks, a Mac II >cpu, pile of Mac ADB keyboards and mice, assorted Commodore gear, etc... > >Now on the other hand, the Salvation Army store could not sell gear to Bill >Gates based on the way they price stuff. An Apple IIgs for $495?!? Really >now... Which is funny because that's my usual experience with Goodwill. (The same one where I bought by C-128 was selling a Kaypro II for $99.) My impression is that Goodwill, particularly in larger markets, seems to price according to some perceived "fair market value". Not exactly overpriced, but not in accordance with what you would expect from a thrift store- more like what you would expect from someone on the net. >Guess like with most things, it's largely regional. (your mileage may vary) I guess so... <<>> From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Sep 23 17:02:46 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <199709231655.JAA21333@mx5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: > >> I'm starting to sort through the misc. parts and accessories that I've >>> collected over the years and am wondering if certain things are really >>> worth keeping, such as: >>> >>> 1200 baud modems (Hayes external, Racal Vadic VA212LC) >>> CGA cards >>> Hercules and MDA mono cards >>> Generic XT floppy controllers > >To put in my 2 cents' worth... > >Motherboards are gonna start going rapidly pretty soon, and >monitors...nobody makes CGA anymore that I know of...what user (versus >collector) is gonna replace a CGA with VGA on an XT? He'll junk the whole >thing, and buy a Packard Bell at Wal-Mart (and use it to play Solitaire.) Maybe, but I'm finding it easier lately to get mono VGAs and 256K VGA cards than to find Herc clones and mono monitors. I recently found a lovely paper-white Dell on the curb and picked up a Wyse for $5. >Worth keeping? I think so. Boards don't take up a whole lot of space, and >you're going to make a collector *very* happy some day. (I'd take your >boards, except that I've already got plenty.) But, it'll be a long time >before you sell them! Probably so... I'm rethinking the idea in favor of keeping them and just dumping any cards which I *know* don't work. <<>> From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Sep 23 17:09:11 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206363FC5@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: >On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > >[...] > >> > > CGA cards >> > >> Actual IBM CGA cards are a must-keep. >> >> > > Hercules and MDA mono cards >> > >> Original Hercules brand cards (as opposed to compatible) and IBM >> Monochrome Display Adapter cards are also must-keeps. >> >> > > Generic XT floppy controllers >> > >> Genuine IBM floppy controllers should be saved. > >IMHO _all_ genuine IBM cards should be saved. I always dig through the >'any card 1 pound' box at radio rallies (hamfests) looking for such >things. IBM cards have the advantage that they can be repaired (I have an >almost-complete set of TechRefs). > >IMHO collectors will want early genuine IBM PC bits in the future. Just >like some people will pay for Altair bits today. Interesting... the thought, though, reminds me of the whole "genuine" Altair discussion. The same way that an Altair chasis may contain Compupro or other S-100 cards, an XT chasis could contain cards from Hercules, AST, Quadram, or any number of other manufacturers. Will this make these systems any less desirable/valuable in the future? Or will people just want to pay lots of money for matching IBM logos on the monitor, CPU, and keyboard? (Oops, almost forgot the logos embossed on the drives. :-) <<>> From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 23 17:58:14 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > I think they wanted the computer to look more hackeresque. In the > screenplay, David built his computer from junk, cobbling it together over > time, kinda hard to cobble an Apple case and motherboard over time. Then how come everything he had was IMSAI brand name (CPU, modem, disk drives, keyboard)? If they wanted it to seem like he cobbled it together they should have had him with an IMSAI CPU, a CompuPro dual 8" disk drive unit, a VT-100 terminal, some funky Racal-Vadic modem, etc. BTW, if you look closely you'll see that the top is off of the IMSAI and it has ribbon cables coming out of it. Not very apparent though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 23 17:55:08 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > Secondly, in the scene when WOPR CALLS HIM BACK and he looks all freaked > and pulls the plug out of the phone, how does the game timer keep > running AFTER he has disconnected from WOPR? WOPR downloaded a Java aplet into his computer that the web browser continued to execute! C'mon, that one's easy! > Thirdly, the cheapy paperback book made when the movie came out, based on > the movie, descibes a much more hackeresque computer in his room...it > describes how he put it together with "chewing gum and baling wire" and > how Malvin and Jim Sting helped him with parts and advice and how he > learned more spending one summer with them at the computer center than he > had in a year in Mr. Liggett's biology class. Melvin is it? That nerd is the BEST! "That thing's probably got top secret data encryption algorithms!" "Mr. Potato-Head! MR. POTATO-HEAD!! Back doors are not secret!" > Fourthly, not directly related but it seems that every few years a > counter-culture type movie comes out that inspires tech-heads to go "Free > the World" > > 1983 - Wargames - Hackers > 1991 - Pump Up the Volume - Pirate Radio DJs (read alt.radio.pirate) > 1996 - The Craft - Counter-Culture Religion How about _Hackers_? That surely set off the latest wave of techno dweebies who think just because they can connect to a URL they've hacked into a system. > All the screens in the War Room were REAL BTW...they were driven by an HP > Vector Graphics generator coupled with a video projector of some sort and > then color was added in post-production. Although my memory of the > article could be a bit off. Ok, we have a conflict of nerd movie trivia here. Was it CompuPro S-100 boxes or HP Vector Graphics generators? > Wargames STILL has the most REALISTIC (strangely, enough) computer > special effects (screens, etc) of any movie ever...even with movies like > Sneakers and The Net. Yep! Oh, yeah, _Sneakers_. Where data encryption involves spitting out simple ciphered characters and then this amazing box which cracks all the encryption in the world and descrypts the characters on the screen. Yeah, I believe that. The Net. One word: EXTREMELY-RETARDED. (its hyphenated...one word) > It's important to remember that Wargames wasn't about hacking and > computers. It was about the foolishness of the Cold War. Basically it > says, "Hey if a dumb computer can figure out how stupid it is, why can't > we?" BTW General Berringer's line (something like) "I don't know about > you but I'm not about to trust the security of the nation to a SILICON > diode!" has a real-life origin. There was, in fact, in the late 70s or > very early 80s a false missile launch detection resulting from a fried > passive component like a diode. Somewhere I have an article about it. Sure, but how many people decided that the message was "It's cool to hack into military computers because you can get chicks and turn into the hero in the end"? > In the book, when David walks in while Jim Sting is underneath his desk, > he says "Hey Captain Crunch, I'm from Ma Bell and Boy is she pissed!" Nobody would've understood that reference. Nobody would today either. > I occasionally have Hacker Movie nights where all my computer friends > (some of whom were REAL hackers but I plead the fifth) come over and we > watch Wargames and Johnny Mnemonic or The Net and Sneakers, etc etc. > (Sandra Bullock in a black two-piece can come over and interface with me > anytime!) =-) I did this one time with my friends..._War Games_, _THX1138_, and damn, what was that other movie from the 80s that involves computers and hacking and stuff? _Operation Condor_ (is that the name of it? The one with Robert Redford) has THE most realistic scenes in terms of phone hacking. Like when Redford's character is in the basement phone room and is tapping that one dude. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 23 18:32:57 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2063641C0@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> | Ok, we have a conflict of nerd movie trivia here. Was it CompuPro S-100 | boxes or HP Vector Graphics generators? CompuPro/Godbout is in the credits... they obviously didn't supply the IMSAI :) My friend Norm here in the next office swears it was CompuPro boxes. Since he owned a CompuPro at the time the movie was released, I'm inclined to believe him -- apparently it was common knowledge in the CompuPro community. He's very specific about the MicroAngelo S-100 graphics boards that were used. Kai From wpe at interserv.com Tue Sep 23 18:33:25 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Another source not to forget.. Message-ID: <342851C5.2ECE7656@interserv.com> Another source to consider for classic stuff is the eubiquitous ((sp?) here in the Eastern Ma. area, anyway) "yard (or tag) sale". Saturday, I found a "roll table" built for DEC's old WT78 (revised VT52) word processor.. Paid U.S. $20 for it.. Best PC stand I've ever seen! Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 18:35:42 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Thirdly, the cheapy paperback book made when the movie came out, based on > > the movie, descibes a much more hackeresque computer in his room...it > > describes how he put it together with "chewing gum and baling wire" and > > how Malvin and Jim Sting helped him with parts and advice and how he > > learned more spending one summer with them at the computer center than he > > had in a year in Mr. Liggett's biology class. > > Melvin is it? That nerd is the BEST! "That thing's probably got top > secret data encryption algorithms!" > I think it's Malvin not Melvin but I could be wrong. > "Mr. Potato-Head! MR. POTATO-HEAD!! Back doors are not secret!" > "Do you remember when you asked me to tell you when you were acting rudely and insensitively? Well, you're doing it right now." It sounds EXACTLY like conversations between me and this skinny techno-dweeb I work with. > > 1983 - Wargames - Hackers > > Not ALL of them were wannabes. But I plead the fifth. > > 1991 - Pump Up the Volume - Pirate Radio DJs (read alt.radio.pirate) > > Trust me. The wannabe Pirate DJs are FAR more pathetic than were the mid 80s hacker wannabes. > > 1996 - The Craft - Counter-Culture Religion > > It's just like anything else. There's a real counter-culture behind the subject but the movie creates a wave of folks who know NOTHING about the reality of the counter-culture and instead just end up adhering to a new set of stereotypes. > How about _Hackers_? That surely set off the latest wave of techno > dweebies who think just because they can connect to a URL they've hacked > into a system. > I don't think so. Not from what I've seen. The technology was too buried under techno music and skateboards. And although it was about hackers even more directly than was Wargames, it gave even LESS realistic information about how to begin than did Wargames. At least wardialers and poor security were REAL things in the 80s. > > All the screens in the War Room were REAL BTW...they were driven by an HP > > Vector Graphics generator coupled with a video projector of some sort and > > then color was added in post-production. Although my memory of the > > article could be a bit off. > > Ok, we have a conflict of nerd movie trivia here. Was it CompuPro S-100 > boxes or HP Vector Graphics generators? > CompuPro boxes were used to drive CRT displays like on David's desk at home while the HP units were used for the big-screen displays in the War Room. Those are CRISP clean lines on those big screens...a raster display did NOT create those. Even the Kobyashi Maru simulator in Star Trek II, which was done with a Digistar vector graphics system (one of which is at the Science Center of Iowa here in Des Moines) didn't look as good as those vector maps of the world in the War Room in Wargames. Now it's possible that CompuPro S100 boxes were being used to DRIVE the HP Vector Graphics displays but those big displays were NOT done on a Microangelo card. I wish I still had the article. It was in an electronics engineering type magazine YEARS ago...like '84 or '85. Speaking of Sandra Bullock in The Net....there were computers in The Net? ;-D Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 18:42:50 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > I think they wanted the computer to look more hackeresque. In the > > screenplay, David built his computer from junk, cobbling it together over > > time, kinda hard to cobble an Apple case and motherboard over time. > > Then how come everything he had was IMSAI brand name (CPU, modem, disk > drives, keyboard)? If they wanted it to seem like he cobbled it together > they should have had him with an IMSAI CPU, a CompuPro dual 8" disk drive > unit, a VT-100 terminal, some funky Racal-Vadic modem, etc. > True. Most likely it's just because the IMSAI is so photogenic from the standpoint of looking like a hacker machine. > BTW, if you look closely you'll see that the top is off of the IMSAI and > it has ribbon cables coming out of it. Not very apparent though. True. And if you look the 'behind the desk' scenes, where you're looking at the back of the monitor like when he and Jennifer are coming in the room you'll see a logic probe and some tools sitting on the desk next to the keyboard. I think the intention was hackeresqueness but considering that even in '83 after the peak of the IMSAI and Altair and so on, not many people could afford a system like that. But keep in mind movie people aren't used to thinking on the level of REAL people. =-) It's like Whiz Kids (anyone remember that show featuring the same kid who played Albert on Little House on the Prairie with computers and hackers?) on CBS in maybe 84 or 85. In the opening to the show they pan around this hacker kids bedroom and he's got EASILY what 20-30-40000 dollars worth of hardware? Robot arms...color displays...S100 boxes, disk drives all over the place, voice synthesizers, light pens...all high end gear. It just looked goofy! The story line though was that his father had divorced his mom and the father felt bad so he bought all the equipment for the kid to rewin his favor. The father had some high-end job someplace such that he could afford it. Speaking of which, I would LOVE to have copies of episodes of Whiz Kids. I have virtually every hacker/computer movie ever made, except a few. In addition, I'd like to have episodes of Riptide on tape, which also featured a hacker as a main character along with a goofy robot. No Knight Rider thank you...intelligent cars just don't trip my trigger. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From wpe at interserv.com Tue Sep 23 18:48:18 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games References: Message-ID: <34285541.62A6F5FE@interserv.com> SYSTAT.... As memory (tries to) serve me, you used to be able to get away with that back in the earlier DECnet days with VMS V too... There also used to be some system info commands that would work with out login with TOPS-10.. Damned if I can remember them... Haft'a dig out my notes outta' th' cellar.... .W SYS or something like that????? Will Anthony Clifton wrote: > > > He did a lot of majik that was technically suspect! Most secure > systems > > > back then would at best give you three tries at the password and > drop you > > > and if you tried the account within 15 minutes you were again > dropped and > > And I don't know of a login paradigm where you can type "HELP GAMES" > and > > get a list og games to play. How a staff of government programmers > could > > overlook a security crater opening like that stretches the > imagination. > > Actually, you could ask RSTS systems I believe for help at the login > prompt. You could also say SYSTAT and get a list of processes/users > etc > if I recall correctly. > > Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime and Wargames Apologist -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Sep 23 18:49:58 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2063641C0@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: > My friend Norm here in the next office swears it was CompuPro boxes. > Since he owned a CompuPro at the time the movie was released, I'm > inclined to believe him -- apparently it was common knowledge in the > CompuPro community. He's very specific about the MicroAngelo S-100 > graphics boards that were used. I have NO question that CompuPro boxes were used to drive CRT displays and such. In fact, I know that's true. But the overhead displays in the War Room were NOT generated with a raster technology. They were HP, or some other brand, vector graphic generators with an overhead display unit of some sort of EXTREMELY high quality. If I recall...they only had one or two so the screens were shot at different times and composited together but were real. Color was added later as it was in the Digistar display systems used in the Kobiyashi Maru simulator in Star Trek II. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 23 19:03:07 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2063641E2@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> | an overhead display unit of some sort of EXTREMELY high quality. ... made by Stewart Filmscreen Corporation, who also outfitted the NASA Johnson Space Center, Pentagon War Room, and the _real_ NORAD control center. Not to mention ABC, NBC, CBS, Lucasfilm, MGM, Paramount, Disney, Fox, and Universal. Kai From marvin at rain.org Tue Sep 23 19:35:26 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? References: <199709232136.OAA08734@mx3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3428604E.6F13368E@rain.org> PG Manney wrote: > You never know what you'll turn up. I even snagged an ST-412, which I'll > put > in my "original" PC, when I get around to it. (except I don't have any > Xybec > HDD controllers. Anyone have one cheap?) Not to be nitpicking or anything like that, well okay, let's nitpick :). The original PC didn't have a HD as that came with the XT. I do have several Xybec HD controllers buried someplace but I don't know if they work or not. If you are interested, I'll keep my eyes open for one although it could be several weeks (months?) before I find them. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 23 19:48:49 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Star Trek for CompuColor II Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB20636420E@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Anyone have a copy of this gem? thanks Kai From spc at armigeron.com Tue Sep 23 20:17:31 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 23, 97 03:55:08 pm Message-ID: <199709240117.VAA10480@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Sam Ismail once stated: > On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > > > Secondly, in the scene when WOPR CALLS HIM BACK and he looks all freaked > > and pulls the plug out of the phone, how does the game timer keep > > running AFTER he has disconnected from WOPR? > > WOPR downloaded a Java aplet into his computer that the web browser > continued to execute! C'mon, that one's easy! > Bzzzzzz. Wrong answer. Remember, this was the early 80s, Sun was just a start up then. Must have been a USCD Pascal system. > > I occasionally have Hacker Movie nights where all my computer friends > > (some of whom were REAL hackers but I plead the fifth) come over and we > > watch Wargames and Johnny Mnemonic or The Net and Sneakers, etc etc. > > (Sandra Bullock in a black two-piece can come over and interface with me > > anytime!) =-) > > I did this one time with my friends..._War Games_, _THX1138_, and damn, > what was that other movie from the 80s that involves computers and > hacking and stuff? "Tron"? "Real Genius"? "Demon Seed"? > _Operation Condor_ (is that the name of it? The one with Robert Redford) "Three Days of the Condor" and yes, that was a pretty good film. -spc ("Who are those guys?") From spc at armigeron.com Tue Sep 23 20:22:22 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 23, 97 03:58:14 pm Message-ID: <199709240122.VAA10505@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Sam Ismail once stated: > > On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > > > I think they wanted the computer to look more hackeresque. In the > > screenplay, David built his computer from junk, cobbling it together over > > time, kinda hard to cobble an Apple case and motherboard over time. > > Then how come everything he had was IMSAI brand name (CPU, modem, disk > drives, keyboard)? If they wanted it to seem like he cobbled it together > they should have had him with an IMSAI CPU, a CompuPro dual 8" disk drive > unit, a VT-100 terminal, some funky Racal-Vadic modem, etc. The way I heard it (rats, I can't remember the source, but it is one of those books about the history of microcomputers like _Hackers_ (not that one) or _Fire in the Valley_ (not that one either)) was that IMSAI gave the production company the computers for free publicity. Of course, when the movie came out, IMSAI was pretty much Chapter 11 anyway (US slang for "out of business") ... -spc (Surprised that _Wiz Kids_ haven't made a come back, with the Internet hype and all ... 8-/ From ccm at sentex.net Tue Sep 23 20:38:49 1997 From: ccm at sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: For Sam Ismail - Sorry List Members. Message-ID: <199709240138.VAA00714@granite.sentex.net> Sam I've been trying to send message to you for over a week. I get yours but can't reply. Here is a sample of what I get. Still interested in helping and chatting about promotion. Hey you should do a post-festival review on the web site and tell people you plan to do this so they'll plan to return to the site after the event. The original message was received at Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:10:01 -0400 (EDT) from p22a.lithium.sentex.ca [207.245.212.183] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.crl.com.: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=1961 <<< 550 Access denied 554 ... Service unavailable ----- Original message follows ----- Return-Path: ccm@sentex.net Received: from p22a.lithium.sentex.ca (p22a.lithium.sentex.ca [207.245.212.183]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA29463 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 07:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709231110.HAA29463@granite.sentex.net> X-Sender: ccm@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Sam Ismail From: ccm@sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) Subject: Re: Yo! Glad to hear from you too. I've been trying to contact you ever since you asked for a informal poll about attendance figures. Your mail keeps bouncing back...and then I'm having difficulty getting online now that school is back...the number is incessantly BUSY. I was gonna pass my messages on to you via the LIST, but couldn't even get online! So I haven't even read this message, but in 9 hours I will respond - got to go to work now. The original message was received at Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:06:56 -0400 (EDT) from p15a.lithium.sentex.ca [207.245.212.176] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.crl.com.: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=2966 <<< 550 Access denied 554 ... Service unavailable ----- Original message follows ----- Return-Path: ccm@sentex.net Received: from p15a.lithium.sentex.ca (p15a.lithium.sentex.ca [207.245.212.176]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA20534 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 07:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709191106.HAA20534@granite.sentex.net> X-Sender: ccm@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Sam Ismail From: ccm@sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) Subject: Re: update, poll & returned mail. I'm am experiencing difficulty getting through to you. Still doing my part and will chat soon. Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:33:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable To: Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) The original message was received at Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:33:35 -0400 (EDT) from p16a.lithium.sentex.ca [207.245.212.177] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.crl.com.: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=1654 <<< 550 Access denied 554 ... Service unavailable ----- Original message follows ----- Return-Path: ccm@sentex.net Received: from p16a.lithium.sentex.ca (p16a.lithium.sentex.ca [207.245.212.177]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA05560 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709172333.TAA05560@granite.sentex.net> X-Sender: ccm@sentex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dastar@crl.com From: ccm@sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) Subject: VCF Poll >The original message was received at Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >from p11a.neon.sentex.ca [207.245.212.204] > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >... while talking to mail.crl.com.: >>>> MAIL From: SIZE=644 ><<< 550 Access denied >554 ... Service unavailable > > ----- Original message follows ----- > >Return-Path: ccm@sentex.net >Received: from p11a.neon.sentex.ca (p11a.neon.sentex.ca [207.245.212.204]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03733 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:06:03 -0400 (EDT) >Message-Id: <199709170106.VAA03733@granite.sentex.net> >X-Sender: ccm@sentex.net >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To: Sam Ismail >From: ccm@sentex.net (COMMPUTERSEUM/Kevin Stumpf) >Subject: Re: VCF Update > >About the informal poll...hope for the best and expect the worst...jah, jah, >but seriously folks you will probably not have enough attendance to break >even. Then again I'm way off in my marketing suggestions, i.e. I recommended >Computerworld and WSJ, but your market are the BBS'ers and a very local, >personal clientele and that's precisely who you are approaching. Right on dude. > >There's my 2 cents. > >Kevin > > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Sep 23 22:27:02 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: <199709240327.AA20384@world.std.com> In the book, when David walks in while Jim Sting is underneath his desk, <> he says "Hey Captain Crunch, I'm from Ma Bell and Boy is she pissed!" < Does anyone know if the Historical Computer Society is still going? If it is, how can I get in touch with them? Ken Harbit krh03@cvip.fresno.com From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Sep 24 00:22:34 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: Back again kinda Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970923222149.4eb7d574@mail.crl.com> At 02:58 PM 9/22/97 -0700, you wrote: >drive. If anyone knows where to get a cheap hard drive >for a Compaq Contura 430 please let me know ;). I dunno about Compaqs, but if it takes standard 2.5" hard drives, Fry's and NCA (Silicon Valley, but possibly elsewhere) had been selling 500mb 2.5's for under $100. I picked up a 2GB 2.5'er on AuctionWeb for $235 with shipping (Seagate drive). --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 00:23:35 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > "Do you remember when you asked me to tell you when you were acting > rudely and insensitively? Well, you're doing it right now." It sounds > EXACTLY like conversations between me and this skinny techno-dweeb I work > with. I wouldn't let guys like that work at my company. > > How about _Hackers_? That surely set off the latest wave of techno > > dweebies who think just because they can connect to a URL they've hacked > > into a system. > > > I don't think so. Not from what I've seen. The technology was too > buried under techno music and skateboards. And although it was about > hackers even more directly than was Wargames, it gave even LESS realistic > information about how to begin than did Wargames. At least wardialers > and poor security were REAL things in the 80s. Well, they did show some pseudo-red-boxing. Although the tones were just DTMF rather than the actual ACTS tones. > Speaking of Sandra Bullock in The Net....there were computers in The Net? > ;-D Well, to its credit, it was the first movie (AFAIK) where the hacking took place on the web. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 23 23:12:00 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:05 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970922213005.0435a520@agora.rdrop.com> References: Message-ID: >Interesting... The local Goodwill here (at least to date) has been one of >my most reliable sources of gear. Over the last couple of weeks, a Mac II >cpu, pile of Mac ADB keyboards and mice, assorted Commodore gear, etc... Yeh, I figured you were getting all the good stuff in Beaverton :^) That's what I get for not making it in for a couple weeks. >Now on the other hand, the Salvation Army store could not sell gear to Bill >Gates based on the way they price stuff. An Apple IIgs for $495?!? Really >now... Is this the one in Beaverton? Never seen anything there. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 23 23:08:53 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I think it varies with the locale! In San Diego, Goodwill accumulates >the donated hard/software and offers it up at a biennial sale. Now days, >most of it is PC clone stuff, certainly, but 8-bit stuff does show up. >There are some good buys and some lousy ones. Just like most sales! It varies a lot even within one area. I know of five different GW's in the area. Two are a good source of systems, one of these actually sells nearly complete systems at times. It seems to take going to all of them to find everything though. I leave the PC stuff behind, but have found good stuff. >Salvation Army, on the other hand, apparently sells their donations >through their stores as it comes in and is priced. Pretty skinny market, >as I see it. I think I've gotten two Atari 2600 carts from them. I've only bothered to go in twice, and once when I was trying to get rid of a chair. I've got to agree with Sam, the best places do seem to be the ones that are on their own. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 00:36:05 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <199709240327.AA20384@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > FYI: I was uing a cosmac elf to do the blue box in the late '70s by > spinning loops to make the tones and memory dial. Woah! You are a phreak among phreaks! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 00:31:14 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <199709240117.VAA10480@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > > > Secondly, in the scene when WOPR CALLS HIM BACK and he looks all freaked > > > and pulls the plug out of the phone, how does the game timer keep > > > running AFTER he has disconnected from WOPR? > > > > WOPR downloaded a Java aplet into his computer that the web browser > > continued to execute! C'mon, that one's easy! > > > Bzzzzzz. Wrong answer. Remember, this was the early 80s, Sun was just a > start up then. Must have been a USCD Pascal system. C'mon people. Must I use a damn smiley EVERYTIME I'm being sarcastic?? (Unless I'm missing yours :) > > I did this one time with my friends..._War Games_, _THX1138_, and damn, > > what was that other movie from the 80s that involves computers and > > hacking and stuff? > > "Tron"? "Real Genius"? "Demon Seed"? Oh Yeah. TRON! How can I forget? _Demon Seed_ is deliciously cheezy. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 00:28:03 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Anthony Clifton wrote: > It's like Whiz Kids (anyone remember that show featuring the same kid who > played Albert on Little House on the Prairie with computers and hackers?) > on CBS in maybe 84 or 85. In the opening to the show they pan around Yeah, I wish they would show re-runs of that on cable or something. It would be fun to see all the old hardware they used. I only saw a few episodes of that show. The only scene I remember is Albert (of course not his character name in the Whiz Kids show) using his computer to drive a robot arm to position a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in front of his mouth so he could take a bite out of it. Very nerdy! > Speaking of which, I would LOVE to have copies of episodes of Whiz Kids. > I have virtually every hacker/computer movie ever made, except a few. In > addition, I'd like to have episodes of Riptide on tape, which also > featured a hacker as a main character along with a goofy robot. No > Knight Rider thank you...intelligent cars just don't trip my trigger. They used displays from Atari 2600 driving games in that stupid KITT car, and sound effects from the 2600 version of PacMan. I would love to have the episodes of Whiz Kids on tape too. I was trying to find a _War Games_ for sale at the video store yesterday but they didn't have one. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Sep 24 00:57:51 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Another recycler Message-ID: <3428ABDF.58FF7250@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Found this on the web today, don't know where he is located but whoever is in that area might like to make contact with him.... > Attention: We are interested in purchasing your obsolete electronic > equipment and other expendable assets. Since 1984, SGS Computer > Corporation has been designing custom programs for those assets that no > longer have value to your organization. We buy PC?s to mainframes, > circuit boards to test equipment. We can pay on a per pound basis when > approximate. We can remarket your items whenever possible for > additional revenue. > > We take it all!! We don?t cherry pick. (Larger quantities are > encouraged) > > Ask for: Joe Grimm > SGS Computer Corporation > www.sgsasset.com > e-mail sgsasset@apk.net > Call 800-348-1946 Fax (440) 786-8107 Regards, Hans From engine at chac.org Wed Sep 24 01:23:37 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: HCS Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970923232122.00eef500@pop.batnet.com> At 19:12 9/23/97 +0000, Ken Harbit wrote: >Does anyone know if the Historical Computer Society is still going? >If it is, how can I get in touch with them? Their address is 2962 Park Street, #1, Jacksonville FL 32205. historical@aol.com was down for a while but I think it works again now. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Wed Sep 24 01:45:03 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: URLs always wanted Message-ID: On Tuesday, September 23, 1997 8:02 PM, Kip Crosby [SMTP:engine@chac.org] wrote: > Hi, > > I'm thoroughly enjoying being here and I just wanted to remind everybody > that our history page, http://www.chac.org/chhistpg.html , is perennially > in need of new links. As an example, we haven't found a single site yet > that's devoted to classic laptops. > > I'd also appreciate any suggestion of a good win32 link-checking bot > because this page has gotten far, far too voluminous to check by hand. > > Finally, thanks for all the Apple ][ material -- I'm still sifting through it. Hi, I have a small Home-Computer-Museum here in Germany you might want to link: http://192.102.161.122/~walgen/index.html From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Sep 24 02:27:45 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Not Sam, CRL (was: For Sam Ismail) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970924002703.5f9fadca@ricochet.net> At 09:38 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote: >Sam I've been trying to send message to you for over a week. I get yours but >can't reply. Here is a sample of what I get. The problem is that CRL (Sam's and My provider) has arbitrarily decided to cut off incoming mail from various providers. Juno, Earthlink, probably others. They claim it's because they want to stop spam, but not only do I still get 10+ spams a day, but I get it with From: addresses that they've supposedly blocked. Meanwhile, my sister. friends, and clients cannot send me e-mail. Sam can be reached at and I can be reached at . I dunno if Paul Coad has another e-mail address or not (He's on CRL too.) >>>> MAIL From: SIZE=1961 ><<< 550 Access denied >554 ... Service unavailable --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Sep 24 02:37:01 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970924003617.5f9f6e9a@ricochet.net> At 02:09 PM 9/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >First, why use a 300 baud acoustic coupler (which strangely seems to >operate at 300, 1200, 2400, 9600, 19200 and 38400 during different >scenes) when you've got a perfectly good 1200 baud direct connect sitting >on the monitor? On a similar note, Anyone else notice that Messrs. Redford, Poitier, et al were using an Atari 830 300bps Acoustic Coupler for their super-duper, high-tech, bounce-around-the-world phone call to James Earl Jones? And in True Stories, the talking heads guy (whose name I can't remember this late at night) ran into the nerd from Varicor in the mall as he was coming out of a store loaded down with 8-bit atari stuff. And in Terminator 2, the scientist is working at his desk full of Atari 16-bit stuff (including at least a TT) when the kid's mom tries to blow him away. When he does finally bite the big one, it's in a room full of old HP 7925 & 7933 disk drives -- Could it be coincidence that just before T2 came out, HP was having a big promo to turn those in as trade-ins on newer drives? I don't think so! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Sep 24 02:37:05 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Back again kinda Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970924003622.5f9fef62@ricochet.net> At 12:22 AM 9/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >I dunno about Compaqs, but if it takes standard 2.5" hard drives, Fry's and Whups... You'd think I was on AOL... I forgot to change the TO: address. Sorry! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From pcoad at crl.com Wed Sep 24 03:04:06 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: CRL, DG Nova, apple IIe was: Not Sam, CRL) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970924002703.5f9fadca@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 09:38 PM 9/23/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Sam I've been trying to send message to you for over a week. I get yours but > >can't reply. Here is a sample of what I get. > > The problem is that CRL (Sam's and My provider) has arbitrarily decided to > cut off incoming mail from various providers. Juno, Earthlink, probably > others. They claim it's because they want to stop spam, but not only do I > still get 10+ spams a day, but I get it with From: addresses that they've > supposedly blocked. They don't seem to be blocking the worst offenders (cyberpromo and friends). 3 or 4 years ago CRL was very good. They answered the phone and messages to support@crl.com, and even did things for their users. Things are not as good now. > > Meanwhile, my sister. friends, and clients cannot send me e-mail. Sam can > be reached at and I can be reached at > . I dunno if Paul Coad has another e-mail address or > not (He's on CRL too.) > I can be reached at pcoad@teknowledge.com as well. October will likely be my last month with CRL. If I unsubscribe at CRL and then resubscribe at my new ISP will I loose my "third guy on the list" status? Classic computer stuff: It looks like I'll be getting a DG Nova 3 soon. My first mini! Any advice on moving a Nova other than bring some friends? I know that it has a fixed/removable hard disk. I do not know the model. Is there a way to lock the heads? Do they need to be locked? The guy I'm getting it from also is interested in selling his Apple IIe. It has: Waldo board (sound card) working vut one of sensors has been damaged CP/M board with Digital Research CP/M 2 floppies, Trinitron monitor misc software (flight planning and project management) The system is working. A quick look at the apple II marketplace newsgroup showed that the parts are possibly worth $50. But then again I saw a complete IIe system with monitor and two drives for $15 at a thrift store recently. How much are IIe's going for these days? Thanks, --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 04:24:31 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, John Ruschmeyer wrote: > Maybe, but I'm finding it easier lately to get mono VGAs and 256K VGA cards > than to find Herc clones and mono monitors. I recently found a lovely Absolutely. So keep the rarer Hercules cards :-). It's easier to find a 486 PC-clone than a PERQ (at least over here, alas). That doesn't mean we shouldn't keep the PERQ, does it? There are a number of PC adapters that are almost impossible to obtain now. Even things like the original XT serial card (which will work in slot 8 of an XT where nothing else will, and which will drive a current loop device) are not that common. Nor are TTL-based parallel cards (which can be hacked to be bidirectional). I have plenty of both of those, but intend to hang on to them > Probably so... I'm rethinking the idea in favor of keeping them and just > dumping any cards which I *know* don't work. NO!. A lot of these cards (certainly the genuine IBM ones) can be repaired. I don't know where the myth springs from that they can't but it's just that - a myth. What I would do is dump/strip the impossible to repair ones (one big FQFP chip with no standard equivalnet), and keep _all_ IBM (working or not), _all_ repairable clones (TTL+standard ICs), and all working ones. > <<>> -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 04:29:26 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >IMHO collectors will want early genuine IBM PC bits in the future. Just > >like some people will pay for Altair bits today. > > Interesting... the thought, though, reminds me of the whole "genuine" > Altair discussion. The same way that an Altair chasis may contain Compupro > or other S-100 cards, an XT chasis could contain cards from Hercules, AST, > Quadram, or any number of other manufacturers. > > Will this make these systems any less desirable/valuable in the future? Or > will people just want to pay lots of money for matching IBM logos on the > monitor, CPU, and keyboard? (Oops, almost forgot the logos embossed on the > drives. :-) Well, I'd prefer genuine IBM cards, if only because they can be trivially kept running. And IBM keyboards are much nicer than most clones :-) I personally think an IBM box with all IBM cards is a somewhat rare machine these days. It may be worth a little more in the future. And then there's the historical aspect. The original set of IBM cards (CGA, MDA, Floppy controller, memory card, etc) were the _first_. The PC/AT serial/parallel adapter was the card that defined the 9-pin serial port pinout on a DE-9 connector. The Hercules card defined that standard, etc. So those must have a historical interest. > > <<>> > > > -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Sep 24 11:17:54 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <9708248751.AA875125333@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > There are a few IBM cards that I've never seen and would love to get. Top > > of my list is a PGC (professional graphics controller) - a 2 board set > > that contained an 8088-based graphics accellerator. It emulated a CGA card > > > (I think) but had extra modes as well. Another thing I would like is a > > Data Aquisition and Control adapter. > > I acquired one of the PGA boards and I passed up an opportunity a couple of > years ago to get the IBM monitor that went with it. BTW, I am assuming here > that what you are referring to as PGC is the same thing I am referring to as > PGA. I see them occasionally and will keep you in mind the next time I find > one if you like. AFAIK, PGA=PGC. IIRC, VGA pixel resolution by lots of colours. When I was working for IBM, I installed a PGC for a customer; I helped with demos involving PGC and DACA (Yes, another nice piece of kit) but I never had a chance to acquire any of that stuff :-( :-( :-( The PGC was three (Tony, am I right, or am I just imagining the middle board?) boards bolted together, with the outer two going in adjacent slots of an AT or XT motherboard. Wouldn't go on a 5-slot PC of course. Now that would be a hack... PGC came with a new sticker for the _back_ of your PC - now no longer a class B but a class A computer according to FCC rules (which thankfully don't apply in the UK, but things are getting worse with our Electromagnetic Compatibility directive) Philip. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Sep 24 09:01:12 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Nova 1210 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Sep 23, 97 06:45:09 pm Message-ID: <9709241301.AA28173@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970924/b1da481f/attachment.ksh From ekman at lysator.liu.se Wed Sep 24 08:42:00 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Classic Sord computers free for shipping In-Reply-To: <199709240702.AAA23781@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hello again! Some time ago I reported on an attic full of Sord computers that only waited for someone to come along and grab them. I have now looked over most of the attic (not all, mind you) and catalogued what I found. It is an interesting list of 40 computers of 17 different types. Mostly Sord, but also some PC compatibles. There is at least one Sord M680UX mini, probably one or two more. Sam and Kevan have already announced that they want several systems, so there will be shipments going both to the US and the UK. The attic in question is in Gothenburg, Sweden, but the more people join in, the cheaper it will be. If you want a list of available stuff (also some printers and a lot of manuals and software) let me know and I will send it to you. Next, I will try to determine what shipping would approximately cost. /F From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Wed Sep 24 08:48:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? ---------- From: Uncle Roger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Date: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 3:37AM At 02:09 PM 9/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >First, why use a 300 baud acoustic coupler (which strangely seems to >operate at 300, 1200, 2400, 9600, 19200 and 38400 during different >scenes) when you've got a perfectly good 1200 baud direct connect sitting >on the monitor? On a similar note, Anyone else notice that Messrs. Redford, Poitier, et al were using an Atari 830 300bps Acoustic Coupler for their super-duper, high-tech, bounce-around-the-world phone call to James Earl Jones? And in True Stories, the talking heads guy (whose name I can't remember this late at night) ran into the nerd from Varicor in the mall as he was coming out of a store loaded down with 8-bit atari stuff. And in Terminator 2, the scientist is working at his desk full of Atari 16-bit stuff (including at least a TT) when the kid's mom tries to blow him away. When he does finally bite the big one, it's in a room full of old HP 7925 & 7933 disk drives -- Could it be coincidence that just before T2 came out, HP was having a big promo to turn those in as trade-ins on newer drives? I don't think so! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 08:52:42 1997 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Classic Sord computers free for shipping References: Message-ID: <34291B2A.75F344B9@coleg-powys.ac.uk> Fredrik Ekman wrote: > > Hello again! > > Some time ago I reported on an attic full of Sord computers that only > waited for someone to come along and grab them. I have now looked over > most of the attic (not all, mind you) and catalogued what I found. Hi, I would be interested to know what you have got available. I have not heard of Sord before so any detail you can provide would be very interesting. -- Regards Pete #include From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Sep 24 08:50:45 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970924095045.00a2a870@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Anthony Clifton said: >In addition, I'd like to have episodes of Riptide on tape, which also >featured a hacker as a main character along with a goofy robot. No >Knight Rider thank you...intelligent cars just don't trip my trigger. Sorry, tho I did like Riptide while it was on, Knight Rider is much better of the two for me... Let's put this into perspective: Riptide: Geeky guy who takes junk and builds robots with it to try to win friendship with two macho PI's and almost never gets laid... Knight Rider: Super-intelligent gorgeous _babe_ designs & builds ultimate 300mph _babe-magnet_ that can drive itself while you [circle one] (look at)(chat with)(make whoopie with) _babes_, or play Intellivision if there are no babes around... ;^> ;^> It's the Sandra Bullock syndrome all over again.... but I like it! (Tho I'll definately concede the point that 40-column Apple ][ basic listings filled with nothing but PRINT statements is not what I'd consider to give intelligence to a car... :-) Of course, how they got that Apple ][ to play Intellivision games was a technological wonder! ;-) [the mind's not totally clear on the Intellivision point, but I'm sure it was a commercially available video game system... It's been a while since I've seen it] Just MHO, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 08:56:48 1997 From: pjoules at coleg-powys.ac.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Apologies References: Message-ID: <34291C20.368639A9@coleg-powys.ac.uk> Sorry to all list members for sending a personal message to Fredrik Ekmann to the list. On another list the Reply To: field defaults to the poster's address and I wasn't paying attention :-(. -- Regards Pete #include From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Sep 24 09:02:52 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > >[...] > > > >> > > CGA cards > >> > > >> Actual IBM CGA cards are a must-keep. > >> > >> > > Hercules and MDA mono cards > >> > > >> Original Hercules brand cards (as opposed to compatible) and IBM > >> Monochrome Display Adapter cards are also must-keeps. > >> > >> > > Generic XT floppy controllers > >> > > >> Genuine IBM floppy controllers should be saved. > > > >IMHO _all_ genuine IBM cards should be saved. I always dig through the > >'any card 1 pound' box at radio rallies (hamfests) looking for such > >things. IBM cards have the advantage that they can be repaired (I have an > >almost-complete set of TechRefs). > > > >IMHO collectors will want early genuine IBM PC bits in the future. Just > >like some people will pay for Altair bits today. > > Interesting... the thought, though, reminds me of the whole "genuine" > Altair discussion. The same way that an Altair chasis may contain Compupro > or other S-100 cards, an XT chasis could contain cards from Hercules, AST, > Quadram, or any number of other manufacturers. > > Will this make these systems any less desirable/valuable in the future? Or > will people just want to pay lots of money for matching IBM logos on the > monitor, CPU, and keyboard? (Oops, almost forgot the logos embossed on the > drives. :-) > > <<>> > > > Two things come to mind here. The first is, that if memory serves, not all of the cards in the original XT were made by IBM. I'm pretty sure that 'Original' HD controllers were made by Xebec, for example. The other is, that in other things generally considered "collectible" (such as automobiles, for example) it is considered acceptable to have some non-original equipment installed, provided it is correct for the period (and that the added stuff in of itself is historic). But I think this only holds to a point: the system board and power supply would probly best kept 'stock', but one of those Quadram 8086 add in boards would be definitely cool, for instance. Just my $0.02 Jeff From adam at merlin.net.au Wed Sep 24 09:06:05 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: >On a similar note, Anyone else notice that Messrs. Redford, Poitier, et >al >were using an Atari 830 300bps Acoustic Coupler for their super-duper, >high-tech, bounce-around-the-world phone call to James Earl Jones? While we're playing this, may I point out that in the control room of the Red Dwarf is, in at least one episode, an original C64? I thought that, being a BBC production, they should have at least use the BBC Micro. *grin* Just think, one day some of our old computers will be used to control starships a mile long. Adam. From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Sep 24 10:15:40 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:16:46 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199709241515.IAA14259@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell wrote: > On Tue, 23 Sep 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > > > > 2895B Tape Punch #1632A03303 FACIT model 4070 > > > > > > > > Yep, this is a badge-engineered Facit paper-tape punch. > > > > Mine came with some sort of rack mount kit that I have not been able to > > comprehend yet. I think I am missing parts. > > There is a rackmount kit shown in the Facit 4070 service manual/parts > catalogue (which I have). I can look up how that one goes together and > post details. > > >From memory it consists of a frame that fits round the 4070 chassis (the > 4070 sits with the reels on the right, and the reels themselves vertical. > There are little friction pads at the bottom to prevent it sliding out, > and clamp screws that go in from the top to hold it in place. The whole > frame mounts in the rack in the usual way. I have one of the HP rack mounts in my living room right now (on its way to storage with the punch). Unfortunately I can't post pictures for y'all but here is how it goes. Basically it is a sliding shelf with a front, with a hole in the front for the chad box to poke through. There's a little metal plate screwed to the shelf near the front, as well as a couple of black plastic circles toward the rear. Those are just guides to keep the punch from wiggling around too much as it punches. There are also a couple of dividers screwed down and held apart with standoffs toward the left of the shelf. At a guess these make a handy place to store a few reels of paper tape for when you have to refill the punch. Finally there are screw-downs for a twisted pair of wires that go up to a power light mounted in the front of the rack. Well, it's supposed to be there, the lightbulb is missing on mine; I think it got mashed in shipment. The shelf needs to slide so you can get tape off the takeup reel (if you don't just let it spill out the front), get at the punch's controls and most of the tape path, and feed the punch. Oh, also note that there is a little widget at center rear between the shelf and the frame; this is to keep the shelf from sliding out due to vibration from the punch. > I _believe_ there's a special (metal?) chad box and front lid on rackmount > 4070's. Oh, and the writing on the control panel is turned through 90 > degrees so that it's readable when the unit is in the rack. All my 4070's > are table-top models. It isn't clear to me that my 2895 punch is any different from a table-top unit. Smoked-plastic chad box, BTW. > > My sense (i.e. ears) tell me that the power supply is a switching type, > > probably one of the first for computers, an is probably a bear to fix. Of > > course, all of the house numbered HP parts does not help either. > > Switching PSUs don't bother me. The HP seems to have a large 50/60Hz > transformer, so the chopper is (I guess) on the low voltage side anyway > (like on most PDP11s). That sort of supply is not that hard to fix _given > schematics_. Heck, if I can get a Boschert 2-stage running again, I can > handle just about anything :-) OK OK OK. I am planning on pulling all my 2100 manuals out for y'all. I can't do it just yet, though; there are other things ahead in the queue. Maybe this weekend if I can get some other pieces into place. Fair warning: I am a software kind of guy; I know what a schematic looks like but you shouldn't count on much more. OTOH, I can work a photocopier. If y'all are interested in a little story about the 2100 power supply, I suggest getting Analytical Engine 2.3 from CHAC's web/ftp site and reading the interview with Barney Oliver. One spoiler: yes, it is a switching power supply, and there was something patentable in its design. -Frank McConnell From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Sep 24 10:18:53 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: HP 150 II (fwd) Message-ID: Anybody that can help her out? (What's a HP150 anyway?) She is not a subscriber to this list so if you can help, please e-mail her directly. Thanks! LeS ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:57:51 -0700 From: Brigid Cumming To: more@camlaw.Rutgers.EDU Subject: HP 150 II My husband brought home a touchscreen Hewlett Packard 150 II. He has its original manuals & it fires up fine. Could you help me find more information on and applications for this computer? Thanks, Brigid Cumming bcumming@island.net From bjorn at ktb.net Wed Sep 24 11:35:51 1997 From: bjorn at ktb.net (Bjorn T. Eng) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Good Thrift shops in Los Angeles? Message-ID: Hi folks, All this talk of dirt cheap computers in thrift shops is making my mouth water! ;) Anyone know of any good stores in the Los Angeles area? (Or is that like asking a cook for a secret recipe?). Thanks, Bjorn Eng From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 11:41:24 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Nova 1210 In-Reply-To: <9709241301.AA28173@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Since there are only 4 slots in the backplane, I think I have all the > > cards. What I have is a Nova CPU board (with _1_ 74181 - did this machine > > really have a 4 bit ALU?) > > Yep. 16-bit math operations are done serially, 4-bits at a time. Right. At least I'm not missing 3 more CPU boards :-) [...] > Data General tended to use a fair number of private-label TTL and DTL > chips, but (luckily for you and me) these tended to be just industry- > standard parts. I have a cross-reference marked "DG Confidential" > on every page, but I think some DG drones would come kill me if I > started passing out copies to everyone :-) That's the sort of thing that (IMHO) should be OCR'ed and put on the classiccmp web site. I can't believe DG would object after (lets see...) 25 years, but I suppose you should check with them first. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 11:52:54 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: [Genuine IBM cards] > > Two things come to mind here. The first is, that if memory serves, > not all of the cards in the original XT were made by IBM. I'm pretty > sure that 'Original' HD controllers were made by Xebec, for example. Correct. And the drives were Tandon (floppies) and Seagate/Shugart ST412s (hard disks). The original IBM PC/AT drive controller was a western digitial. Most of the other cards were (AFAIK) made by IBM, though. I forget who made the 1/2 height floppy drives for the PC-jr and the portable. The Portable monitor was a Zenith, and I think the MDA and CGA monitors were also built by another company. Ditto some of the PSUs. I feel like saying that 'original IBM' means 'as described in the TechRef'. The only problem with that is that the hard disk controller found in most UK XTs is totally different to the one shown in the O&A TechRef, alas. > > The other is, that in other things generally considered "collectible" > (such as automobiles, for example) it is considered acceptable to > have some non-original equipment installed, provided it is correct > for the period (and that the added stuff in of itself is historic). > > But I think this only holds to a point: the system board and power > supply would probly best kept 'stock', but one of those Quadram 8086 > add in boards would be definitely cool, for instance. Agreed. Things like that 8086 card (where IBM _didn't_ make an equivalent) are interesting cards and should certainly be kept. But if we stick to CGA cards for a moment, if I was buying one at a radio rally, or was buying one in a system, my order of preference would be : 1) Genuine IBM, as described in the TechRef 2) Close chip-wise clone (say with 4416 RAMs, not 4816's) 3) Near chip-wise clone, with some of the logic in PALs 4) ASIC design (I'd probably not bother with this). It's a personal thing. I like to be able to stick a logic probe on the card and see what's happening. That's something I can't do with a modern machine, and that's one reason I collect some of these classics. YMMV and all that. > Jeff -tony From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Sep 24 11:53:04 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: HP 150 II (fwd) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB206364395@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> The HP 150 is a (not) IBM compatible, circa 1985. It's an 8088 that runs a wacky disk format with a correspondingly wacky OEM version of MS-DOS. I have one of these machines, but don't have the DOS for it. It'll run a small subset of early MS-DOS based software that doesn't make any hardware accesses -- sort of the same situation as a DEC Rainbow. There's a FAQ at http://www.mdn.com/oksoftware/Computers/hp150faq.html. Kai > ---------- > From: Mr. Self Destruct[SMTP:more@camlaw.rutgers.edu] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 8:18 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: HP 150 II (fwd) > > > > Anybody that can help her out? > > (What's a HP150 anyway?) > > She is not a subscriber to this list so if you can help, please e-mail > her > directly. > > Thanks! > LeS > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:57:51 -0700 > From: Brigid Cumming > To: more@camlaw.Rutgers.EDU > Subject: HP 150 II > > My husband brought home a touchscreen Hewlett Packard 150 II. He has > its > original manuals & it fires up fine. Could you help me find more > information on and applications for this computer? > > Thanks, > Brigid Cumming > bcumming@island.net > From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Sep 24 11:52:55 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > "Do you remember when you asked me to tell you when you were acting > > rudely and insensitively? Well, you're doing it right now." It sounds > > EXACTLY like conversations between me and this skinny techno-dweeb I work > > with. > > I wouldn't let guys like that work at my company. Er....two responses.... Judge not lest ye be judged. ...and the thing about walking in another guy's footwear. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Sep 24 11:56:50 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > not his character name in the Whiz Kids show) using his computer to drive > a robot arm to position a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in front of > his mouth so he could take a bite out of it. Very nerdy! > Well, one of the last episodes had him using his computer to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics, which then caused him to become possessed by an evil Pharoah etc. You can always tell when a series is about to die because they'll use the paranormal to try to boost ratings...unless it's a special Halloween episode. > the episodes of Whiz Kids on tape too. I was trying to find a _War > Games_ for sale at the video store yesterday but they didn't have one. For years I had a copy I taped off HBO until last Christmas when my wife, after looking for 3 years, found a new copy of Wargames. Alot of times you can special order it easily. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Wed Sep 24 11:59:48 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Faiaz, Michael C. HSD wrote: > Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? It was a little Atari palmtop I believe. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Sep 24 12:08:24 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games Message-ID: <199709241706.MAA07196@sunflower.com> Make all the words you utter soft and sweet, for you never know, which ones you will someday have to eat. :) ---------- > From: Anthony Clifton > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: War Games > Date: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 11:52 AM > > > > > > "Do you remember when you asked me to tell you when you were acting > > > rudely and insensitively? Well, you're doing it right now." It sounds > > > EXACTLY like conversations between me and this skinny techno-dweeb I work > > > with. > > > > I wouldn't let guys like that work at my company. > > Er....two responses.... > > Judge not lest ye be judged. > > ...and the thing about walking in another guy's footwear. > > Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime > From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 12:07:30 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: HP 150 II (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: I'm replying both to the list and personally. Hopefully some of this information is useful to both destinations. > > > Anybody that can help her out? > > (What's a HP150 anyway?) At last. A system that I own... The HP150-II is the second version of HP's touchscreen PC, and is a rather interesting system. It differs from the HP150 in the following ways : 1) Touchscreen is an user-installable option 2) Touchscreen, keyboard and optional mouse connect using HP-HIL (HP Human Interface Link), not custom interfaces 3) There are 4 expansion slots (for special HP cards), not 2 4) It will take an 8087 coprocessor card 5) There is no buit-in printer. This was an option on the plain HP150 6) The video system has been redesigned. The motherboard logic has been crammed into some ASICs and now fits all on one board. It's an 8088 PC that runs MS-DOS from HP disk drives (things like the HP9122 dual 3.5" floppy, HP9133 floppy/hard disk, etc) that plug in using GPIB. There's also a nice terminal emulator in ROM, which emulates one of the standard HP terminals (I forget which one). Although it runs MS-DOS (and Windows 1.0, I think), it is _NOT_ an IBM compatible. Some software was ported to it, and stuff which just uses the standard MS-DOS (and BIOS?) calls should work anyway. Such applications are not common these days, alas. I have a shelf-full of manuals for it. There's a 2-volume user guide (which I find a bit lusing...), a Terminal user guide, a Programmer's manual (which mainly docouments the AGIOS (Alpha/graphics I/O system) characters), and a Techref. The latter is a plain HP150 Techref with a suplement that documents the differences. It includes schematics of the mainboard, 8087 card, and RAM expansion card, I think. I doubt very much if a techref will be a lot of use to you, though... > > She is not a subscriber to this list so if you can help, please e-mail her > directly. > > Thanks! > LeS > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:57:51 -0700 > From: Brigid Cumming > To: more@camlaw.Rutgers.EDU > Subject: HP 150 II > > My husband brought home a touchscreen Hewlett Packard 150 II. He has its > original manuals & it fires up fine. Could you help me find more > information on and applications for this computer? If there's anything you want me to look up, let me know. I'm not sure where to find applications for it. What are you looking for? Some plain MS-DOS stuff (_very_ old stuff...) will run fine, but anything modern will fail due either to the fact that it's an 8088 (and not even a 286), or the fact that things like the serial ports are totally different to IBM ones. > > Thanks, > Brigid Cumming > bcumming@island.net > > -tony From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Sep 24 12:08:57 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: <970924130620_-1931475591@emout10.mail.aol.com> did everyone else also notice that when the kids were at the bank hacking the atm, as the pin numbers were scrolling down, it was making old mac disk drive access sounds? =D david In a message dated 97-09-24 13:02:55 EDT, you write: << On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Faiaz, Michael C. HSD wrote: > Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? It was a little Atari palmtop I believe. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime >> From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 12:13:34 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: HP 2100A stuff - info needed In-Reply-To: <199709241515.IAA14259@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 24 Sep 1997, Frank McConnell wrote: > I have one of the HP rack mounts in my living room right now (on its way > to storage with the punch). Unfortunately I can't post pictures for > y'all but here is how it goes. > > Basically it is a sliding shelf with a front, with a hole in the front > for the chad box to poke through. There's a little metal plate > screwed to the shelf near the front, as well as a couple of black plastic > circles toward the rear. Those are just guides to keep the punch > from wiggling around too much as it punches. OK, that's _totally_ different to the Facit one (which was also used by Philips according to my P850 User Guide). There's little point in me posting details from my 4070 manual, then. > It isn't clear to me that my 2895 punch is any different from a table-top > unit. Smoked-plastic chad box, BTW. That's a table-top chad box. It sounds like HP used standard table-top punches in their own rackmount kits. The Facit kit puts the punch on its side. The 'top panel' faces out of the rack with the tape spools on the right hand side. There is a special chad box (I think it's metal) that fits on the left hand side between the punch head and the side of the rack. > OK OK OK. I am planning on pulling all my 2100 manuals out for y'all. > I can't do it just yet, though; there are other things ahead in the No hurry for me. I've had this 2100 for 3 years, so if it waits another couple there's no big problem. Just don't junk the manuals :-). On the other hand, if you are copying schematics, please do me a copy and I'll pay for copying/shipping. > queue. Maybe this weekend if I can get some other pieces into place. > Fair warning: I am a software kind of guy; I know what a schematic > looks like but you shouldn't count on much more. OTOH, I can work > a photocopier. Schematics (as many as possible :-)) should be all I need. > > If y'all are interested in a little story about the 2100 power supply, > I suggest getting Analytical Engine 2.3 from CHAC's web/ftp site and > reading the interview with Barney Oliver. One spoiler: yes, it is a > switching power supply, and there was something patentable in its > design. Will do.... > > -Frank McConnell > -tony From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 11:59:00 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: CRL, DG Nova, apple IIe was: Not Sam, CRL) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Paul E Coad wrote: > The guy I'm getting it from also is interested in selling his Apple IIe. > It has: > > Waldo board (sound card) working vut one of sensors has been damaged > CP/M board with Digital Research CP/M > 2 floppies, > Trinitron monitor > misc software (flight planning and project management) > > The system is working. A quick look at the apple II marketplace > newsgroup showed that the parts are possibly worth $50. But then > again I saw a complete IIe system with monitor and two drives for > $15 at a thrift store recently. How much are IIe's going for > these days? $50 is very reasonable for a system like this. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 12:01:42 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <9708248751.AA875125333@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > There are a few IBM cards that I've never seen and would love to get. Top > > > of my list is a PGC (professional graphics controller) - a 2 board set > > > that contained an 8088-based graphics accellerator. It emulated a CGA card > > > > > (I think) but had extra modes as well. Another thing I would like is a > > > Data Aquisition and Control adapter. > > > > I acquired one of the PGA boards and I passed up an opportunity a couple of > > years ago to get the IBM monitor that went with it. BTW, I am assuming here > > that what you are referring to as PGC is the same thing I am referring to as > > PGA. I see them occasionally and will keep you in mind the next time I find > > one if you like. > > AFAIK, PGA=PGC. IIRC, VGA pixel resolution by lots of colours. > > When I was working for IBM, I installed a PGC for a customer; I helped > with demos involving PGC and DACA (Yes, another nice piece of kit) but I > never had a chance to acquire any of that stuff :-( :-( :-( Does the PG(C/A) card have two 9-pin connectors on the back with little white pins stuffed into some of the connector holes? Or is that some other board? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Wed Sep 24 12:29:28 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Sep 24, 97 05:52:54 pm Message-ID: <199709241729.NAA10695@hiway1.exit109.com> > > > > On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > > [Genuine IBM cards] > > > > > Two things come to mind here. The first is, that if memory serves, > > not all of the cards in the original XT were made by IBM. I'm pretty > > sure that 'Original' HD controllers were made by Xebec, for example. > > Correct. And the drives were Tandon (floppies) and Seagate/Shugart ST412s > (hard disks). The original IBM PC/AT drive controller was a western > digitial. > > Most of the other cards were (AFAIK) made by IBM, though. > > I forget who made the 1/2 height floppy drives for the PC-jr and the > portable. The Portable monitor was a Zenith, and I think the MDA and CGA > monitors were also built by another company. Ditto some of the PSUs. Also some of the late XT's had Shugart/Matsushita 1/2-height floppies with a full-height bezel. <<>> From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 12:31:54 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: War Games In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970924095045.00a2a870@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >In addition, I'd like to have episodes of Riptide on tape, which also > >featured a hacker as a main character along with a goofy robot. No > >Knight Rider thank you...intelligent cars just don't trip my trigger. > > Sorry, tho I did like Riptide while it was on, Knight Rider is much better > of the two for me... Let's put this into perspective: > > Riptide: Geeky guy who takes junk and builds robots with it to try to win > friendship with two macho PI's and almost never gets laid... > > Knight Rider: Super-intelligent gorgeous _babe_ designs & builds ultimate > 300mph _babe-magnet_ that can drive itself while you [circle one] (look > at)(chat with)(make whoopie with) _babes_, or play Intellivision if there > are no babes around... > ;^> ;^> Does anyone remember AutoMan? And his trusty sidekick Cursor? That was a cool show. Very TRON-ish. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 12:33:39 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > Two things come to mind here. The first is, that if memory serves, > not all of the cards in the original XT were made by IBM. I'm pretty > sure that 'Original' HD controllers were made by Xebec, for example. > > The other is, that in other things generally considered "collectible" > (such as automobiles, for example) it is considered acceptable to > have some non-original equipment installed, provided it is correct > for the period (and that the added stuff in of itself is historic). > > But I think this only holds to a point: the system board and power > supply would probly best kept 'stock', but one of those Quadram 8086 > add in boards would be definitely cool, for instance. It's interesting that the collecting of computers will be held to the same standards, protocols and preferences as those in collecting cars. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 12:48:03 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > Does the PG(C/A) card have two 9-pin connectors on the back with little > white pins stuffed into some of the connector holes? Or is that some > other board? No. That one sounds like the special keyboard interface card for the PC/3270. There is a special keyboard cable that connects to one of the 9-pin sockets and also to the 5 pin DIN socket on the system board. I can't remember what the other socket is for (mouse?). That card should be a single full-length card with an Intel microcontroller (8048 or 8051 series - I forget) on it. The PGC is _2 boards_ I think (Philip: I don't recall a 3rd board being mention in the manual). It plugs into 2 adjacent full-length slots on the system board. It contains an 8088, some RAM, video chips, and TTL glue. It has a special double-width fixing bracket at the back. There is one DE-9 (9-pin D) connector on the back. > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com -tony From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 12:59:26 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Tony Duell wrote: > No. That one sounds like the special keyboard interface card for the > PC/3270. There is a special keyboard cable that connects to one of the > 9-pin sockets and also to the 5 pin DIN socket on the system board. I > can't remember what the other socket is for (mouse?). That card should be > a single full-length card with an Intel microcontroller (8048 or 8051 > series - I forget) on it. I have a IBM PC/3270 and it has a three board set inside with all the boards connected together. The board I described in my previous message was in a system in a thrift store and I couldn't open it up to look inside unfortunately. But it wasn't a 3270 PC because that model had a specific model number (can't remember the number right now). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Wed Sep 24 13:38:32 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 24, 97 10:33:39 am Message-ID: <199709241838.OAA20800@hiway1.exit109.com> > > The other is, that in other things generally considered "collectible" > > (such as automobiles, for example) it is considered acceptable to > > have some non-original equipment installed, provided it is correct > > for the period (and that the added stuff in of itself is historic). > > > > But I think this only holds to a point: the system board and power > > supply would probly best kept 'stock', but one of those Quadram 8086 > > add in boards would be definitely cool, for instance. > > It's interesting that the collecting of computers will be held to the > same standards, protocols and preferences as those in collecting cars. I agree. It's also interesting to read between the lines of this thread and note that some people would definately be the type to do "concours" restorations. (Personally, I draw the line at worrying about the color of the ribbon cables.) It makes one wonder whether there will someday be a market for reproductions of computer manuals, FCC stickers, etc. the same way that such a market exists in the automobile collecting world. <<>> From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Sep 24 13:55:02 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: looking for NS* ZPB-A Message-ID: <199709241855.AA27879@world.std.com> HI, I'm looking for a Northstar* ZPB-A z80 cpu board. I'd like to have a spare for my Horizon. Allison From chemifarma at mbox.queen.it Wed Sep 24 21:04:14 1997 From: chemifarma at mbox.queen.it (Chemifarma S.p.a.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:06 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . In-Reply-To: <9FBFE9A3DEB@ifrsys.com> References: <3.0.2.16.19970923194021.21b73cd0@mbox.queen.it> <57765A5578F@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.16.19970924210414.244f1082@mbox.queen.it> At 13.44 23/09/97 -0600, you wrote: >You have to keep in mind though, that this Thrift Store stuff is >strictly "as-is". If it dosen't work, or if it's flakey, tough luck >guy, you bought it. Ah, ok if it is "as is" (that here clearly mean "it's broken") 10 $ or less are ok. >Having been burned numerous times by paying too >much for junk that flat out didn't work, I have resolved NEVER to pay >more than $10 for disk drives (of any sort). I FULLY AGREE (and been burned too). > >You know somebody who would pay $60 for a USED 1541? Hm, I wonder how >hard it is to get past Italian Customs . . . Yes, this is the real trouble. It depends how "expert" is the man in charge to controll stuff. If he recognize the stuff as used and "out-of-fashion" he will probably be human; otherwise it will cost as gold. From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed Sep 24 21:14:01 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Romagnoli Riccardo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Another recycler In-Reply-To: <3428ABDF.58FF7250@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.16.19970924211401.19e7f228@mbox.queen.it> At 07.57 24/09/97 +0200, you wrote: >Found this on the web today, don't know where he is located but whoever >is in that area might like to make contact with him.... > >> Attention: We are interested in purchasing your obsolete electronic >> equipment and other expendable assets. Since 1984, SGS Computer >> Corporation has been designing custom programs for those assets that no >> longer have value to your organization. We buy PC’s to mainframes, >> circuit boards to test equipment. We can pay on a per pound basis when >> approximate. We can remarket your items whenever possible for >> additional revenue. >> >> We take it all!! We don’t cherry pick. (Larger quantities are >> encouraged) Here recyclers like this buy electronic scraps just for squeeze all the precious metals are contained in boards. Ciao Riccardo From chemif at mbox.queen.it Wed Sep 24 21:16:14 1997 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Romagnoli Riccardo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: On the hunt at Goodwill . . . . Message-ID: <3.0.2.16.19970924211614.2fffbcc2@mbox.queen.it> The previous message contained my employee's name and adress (WRONG), sorry. >At 13.44 23/09/97 -0600, you wrote: >>You have to keep in mind though, that this Thrift Store stuff is >>strictly "as-is". If it dosen't work, or if it's flakey, tough luck >>guy, you bought it. >Ah, ok if it is "as is" (that here clearly mean "it's broken") 10 $ or less are ok. > > >>Having been burned numerous times by paying too >>much for junk that flat out didn't work, I have resolved NEVER to pay >>more than $10 for disk drives (of any sort). >I FULLY AGREE (and been burned too). > >> >>You know somebody who would pay $60 for a USED 1541? Hm, I wonder how >>hard it is to get past Italian Customs . . . >Yes, this is the real trouble. >It depends how "expert" is the man in charge to controll stuff. >If he recognize the stuff as used and "out-of-fashion" he will probably be human; otherwise it will cost >as gold. Riccardo From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 24 14:28:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Good Thrift shops in Los Angeles? References: Message-ID: <342969E6.B218B8A6@rain.org> Bjorn T. Eng wrote: > Hi folks, > > All this talk of dirt cheap computers in thrift shops is making my mouth > water! ;) > > Anyone know of any good stores in the Los Angeles area? (Or is that like > asking a cook for a secret recipe?). With ACP in Santa Ana, TRW in El Segundo, CMRA (I think) on the DeVry grounds, and all the other swap meets that take place, who needs thrift stores :). Add to that all the surplus houses down in that area, and things get even more interesting. But no, I am not familar with the thrift shops down there :). From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 24 14:36:01 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? References: Message-ID: <34296BA1.9D96B897@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > I forget who made the 1/2 height floppy drives for the PC-jr and the > portable. The Portable monitor was a Zenith, and I think the MDA and CGA > monitors were also built by another company. Ditto some of the PSUs. I believe the original 1/2 height floppy drives on the PC Jr. were Qume. The Racore add-on expansion boxes were also Qume, at least on the ones I have. From mfavata at geocities.com Wed Sep 24 14:30:33 1997 From: mfavata at geocities.com (Mark Favata) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: War Games References: Message-ID: <34296A59.466A@geocities.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > the episodes of Whiz Kids on tape too. I was trying to find a _War > Games_ for sale at the video store yesterday but they didn't have one. If you want a copy of _War Games_ for cheap, I can copy it on a blank tape for you. Mark Favata From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Sep 24 14:31:18 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Good Thrift shops in Los Angeles? In-Reply-To: <342969E6.B218B8A6@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970924153118.009b9320@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Marvin said: >With ACP in Santa Ana, TRW in El Segundo, CMRA (I think) on the DeVry >grounds, and all the other swap meets that take place, who needs thrift >stores :). Add to that all the surplus houses down in that area, and things >get even more interesting. But no, I am not familar with the thrift shops >down there :). You, sir, are a turd. ;^> Just kidding, but please, all of you folks who have all these swap meets, thrift stores, and whatnot to get the finds of the century, keep in mind that not all of us are so fortunate! Way up yonder in the 3rd oldest city in the country, it's very hard to find any classic systems at all, and to find any "good finds" usually requires 6 hours travel an any particular direction... Just bummed today, so I thought I'd pass a little onto the list... misery loving company and all that jazz... See ya, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 24 14:43:09 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? References: Message-ID: <34296D4D.A3C6555D@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 1997 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > > > There are a few IBM cards that I've never seen and would love to > get. Top > > > > of my list is a PGC (professional graphics controller) - a 2 board > set > > > > that contained an 8088-based graphics accellerator. It emulated a > CGA card > > Does the PG(C/A) card have two 9-pin connectors on the back with little > white pins stuffed into some of the connector holes? Or is that some > other board? The PGC board I have has one DB9 video output jack and contains three boards; two full size boards with a smaller (memory?) board sandwiched between the two on the end away from the video jack. The outside board on the end away from the video jack also has two 50 pin connectors at the top and bottom that I would guess is for adding additional memory. From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 24 14:57:14 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: VCF Opportunity Re: Are these really worth keeping? References: Message-ID: <3429709A.37C30A67@rain.org> On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Jeff Kaneko wrote: > > The other is, that in other things generally considered "collectible" > > (such as automobiles, for example) it is considered acceptable to > > have some non-original equipment installed, provided it is correct > > for the period (and that the added stuff in of itself is historic). > > > > But I think this only holds to a point: the system board and power > > supply would probly best kept 'stock', but one of those Quadram 8086 > > add in boards would be definitely cool, for instance. All this talk about what will be considered collectable is most interesting. Being the curious type, I am going to bring up an original stock IBM PC to sell (or trade) at the VCF. A friend of mine and I are going up and taking one of the spots with power to sell and trade off triplicates in my collection and duplicates in his. I say "triplicates" since I always like two pieces of each piece of hardware (if I can find them.) The VCF sure looks like a great opportunity to meet other collectors and fill in pieces of our collections! From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 24 15:08:32 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: looking for NS* ZPB-A References: <199709241855.AA27879@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34297340.E10EA960@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > HI, > > I'm looking for a Northstar* ZPB-A z80 cpu board. I'd like to have a > spare > for my Horizon. Ah, just the suc, er person I was looking for :). I have a Northstar computer that looks pretty complete (except it doesn't have the wooden case) that I have been holding off taking apart. I'd be willing to part it out or get rid of the whole thing. I have at least four complete systems and this one certainly qualifys as extra :). I don't know what other cards it has in it without looking but if you are interested, let me know. From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Sep 24 15:21:49 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Hey guys? Message-ID: <199709242020.PAA13744@sunflower.com> I have a tandy model4 and need a term program. I found a website with all kinds of software. Can the model 4 read a PC generated floppy? From dastar at crl.com Wed Sep 24 15:48:49 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: VCF Opportunity Re: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <3429709A.37C30A67@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Marvin wrote: > All this talk about what will be considered collectable is most > interesting. Being the curious type, I am going to bring up an original > stock IBM PC to sell (or trade) at the VCF. A friend of mine and I are > going up and taking one of the spots with power to sell and trade off > triplicates in my collection and duplicates in his. I say "triplicates" > since I always like two pieces of each piece of hardware (if I can find > them.) The VCF sure looks like a great opportunity to meet other collectors > and fill in pieces of our collections! I think if you will want to buy, sell or trade any piece of classic computer gear, the VCF will be the place to do it at. Of course, I may be a bit biased with that opinion :) I too like to keep duplicates of systems, and only start shedding stuff off at 3 and up. That way if something obscure ever breaks down in one I have the other to canibalize. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Sep 24 16:02:58 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970924140216.3e9fcfee@mail.crl.com> At 09:48 AM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? Atari Portfolio (with the rare ATM interface kit (aka, the Tramiel special)) 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Sep 24 16:17:54 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <199709241838.OAA20800@hiway1.exit109.com> References: from "Sam Ismail" at Sep 24, 97 10:33:39 am Message-ID: > > > The other is, that in other things generally considered "collectible" > > > (such as automobiles, for example) it is considered acceptable to > > > have some non-original equipment installed, provided it is correct > > > for the period (and that the added stuff in of itself is historic). > > > > > > But I think this only holds to a point: the system board and power > > > supply would probly best kept 'stock', but one of those Quadram 8086 > > > add in boards would be definitely cool, for instance. > > > > It's interesting that the collecting of computers will be held to the > > same standards, protocols and preferences as those in collecting cars. > > I agree. It's also interesting to read between the lines of this thread > and note that some people would definately be the type to do "concours" > restorations. (Personally, I draw the line at worrying about the color of > the ribbon cables.) > > It makes one wonder whether there will someday be a market for > reproductions of computer manuals, FCC stickers, etc. the same way that > such a market exists in the automobile collecting world. > This may as yet come to pass-- but let's hope not during our lifetime! Once it gets to this point, it will cease to be a 'fun' hobby, and will turn into a commercialized, over-marketed 'investment vehicle'. Coin & Stamp collecting, Baseball cards, and even beer cans have fallen to this fate. Its 'goodbye hobbyist' and 'hello bigbucks'. Anyway, is it such a crime to strive to put together a system that is truly historically correct? I mean, if you are talking IBM-PC era stuff, that's what would make it worthwhile. That's the challenge! In the future I predict that those original 4.77Mc motherboards will not be so easy to find (especially with the original BASIC chip set). If you're into older computers such as myself, then the situation is a little different; you generally don't have this plethora of cheap imitations floating around. If you do happen to run across something that's compatible with the bus 'X' machine in you collection, you know it's probably going to be of some historic interest anyway. As for myself personally, I just think it's cool to focus on 'firsts': the first PC accelerator board, first 3rd party ram board, etc. These 'firsts' all shaped the products to come later. To me, that's the appeal of 'Historically Correct'. Jeff From engine at chac.org Wed Sep 24 15:27:17 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970924132713.00ef1930@pop.batnet.com> At 14:38 9/24/97 -0400, John Ruschmeyer wrote: >It makes one wonder whether there will someday be a market for >reproductions of computer manuals, FCC stickers, etc. the same way that >such a market exists in the automobile collecting world. Well, there's already such a thing. First of all, look at the market for "work docs," Xerox copies of manuals that people need to get things going. I admit that these usually change hands for $5 to $10 or the cost of copying, whichever is higher, but the commerce is flourishing. Then on a very different level, there's the market for original distribution software, such as WordStar 1.x-2.x, dBASE II for CP/M, early Multiplan, etc. which if mint and complete are offered at $50 to $150. I cannot prove, but I would bet, that there are already "forgeries" of things like Apple I cassette BASIC and Micro-Soft black paper tapes. And....what price an original set of Apple I manuals? __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Wed Sep 24 16:18:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: Yes it was the Portfolio! ---------- From: Anthony Clifton To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Date: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 12:59PM On Wed, 24 Sep 1997, Faiaz, Michael C. HSD wrote: > Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? It was a little Atari palmtop I believe. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Wed Sep 24 16:19:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Message-ID: EXCELLENT! ---------- From: Uncle Roger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) Date: Wednesday, September 24, 1997 5:02PM At 09:48 AM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? Atari Portfolio (with the rare ATM interface kit (aka, the Tramiel special)) 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Wed Sep 24 16:44:51 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <01IO10EKUCS88Y8CFX@AC.GRIN.EDU> > Then on a > very different level, there's the market for original distribution > software, such as WordStar 1.x-2.x, dBASE II for CP/M, early Multiplan, > etc. which if mint and complete are offered at $50 to $150. This is particularly evident in the realm of old games. If you have an old Ultima for the Apple ][, complete with everything it came with, it will fetch a pretty penny. -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Sep 24 18:09:51 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Good Thrift shops in Los Angeles? In-Reply-To: from "Bjorn T. Eng" at Sep 24, 97 09:35:51 am Message-ID: <9709242209.AA13203@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1147 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970924/927cef52/attachment.ksh From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Sep 24 17:09:58 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Hey guys? In-Reply-To: <199709242020.PAA13744@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970924180958.00a124f0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Bill Girnius said: >I have a tandy model4 and need a term program. I found a website with all >kinds of software. Can the model 4 read a PC generated floppy? No. However, Jeff Vavasour has written several Tandy emulators for PC's, including a Model 1/3/4 emulator, the CoCo 1/2 and CoCo3 emulators (I have these... they're wonderful!) and a few others, IIRC. He has utilities that can be used on a PC to format/read/write these formats on your PC... very handy for xferring files this way. I think the port utilties are freeware, but you should contact him to be sure. I don't have his e-mail handy, but it's not too tough to find on the web. And check this page out that I found: http://w3.infonorth.com/~ira/trs80-3.htm it's full of "big stuffs!" for the Model 3. (doesn't the Mod4 emulate the 3?) Browsing that site, I stumbled across this: http://w3.infonorth.com/~ira/trs80-t.htm I believe this utility will allow you to read/write a Model 3 floppy, which you should be able to read in your Mod4. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Sep 24 17:40:53 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: References: <199709241838.OAA20800@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: Ok, guys , I pulled a boner. That's what I get for trying to do too many things at once: > > If you're into older computers such as myself, then the situation is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > a little different; you generally don't have this plethora of cheap > imitations floating around. If you do happen to run across something > that's compatible with the bus 'X' machine in you collection, you > know it's probably going to be of some historic interest anyway. > > As for myself personally, I just think it's cool to focus on > 'firsts': the first PC accelerator board, first 3rd party ram > board, etc. These 'firsts' all shaped the products to come later. > To me, that's the appeal of 'Historically Correct'. > I wish to dispell all rumours that I am some kind of silicon-based life-form . . . Jeff From engine at chac.org Wed Sep 24 20:17:03 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: HCS Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970924181658.00f23870@pop.batnet.com> At 18:00 12/31/70 -0500, you wrote: >If you can find out more about them let me know I sent a check to them for >their magazine and never got one issue. Their last issue was #9 and I think it came out about eighteen months ago. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Sep 24 22:44:02 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: HCS Message-ID: <970924233949_188676666@emout19.mail.aol.com> it used to be historical@aol.com i checked the member profile for that name but it doesnt mention anything about a historical computer society though. you might want to email him directly and find out for sure. In a message dated 97-09-24 20:22:07 EDT, you write: << If you can find out more about them let me know I sent a check to them for their magazine and never got one issue. At 07:12 PM 9/23/97 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone know if the Historical Computer Society is still going? >If it is, how can I get in touch with them? > >Ken Harbit >krh03@cvip.fresno.com >> From marvin at rain.org Wed Sep 24 22:51:47 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: HCS References: <970924233949_188676666@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3429DFD3.EAE72B5E@rain.org> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > it used to be historical@aol.com i checked the member profile for that > name > but it doesnt mention anything about a historical computer society though. > > you might want to email him directly and find out for sure. > > In a message dated 97-09-24 20:22:07 EDT, you write: > > << If you can find out more about them let me know I sent a check to them > for > their magazine and never got one issue. > At 07:12 PM 9/23/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Does anyone know if the Historical Computer Society is still going? > >If it is, how can I get in touch with them? > > > >Ken Harbit > >krh03@cvip.fresno.com >> There appear to be two URLs, the first is http://members.aol.com/mtpro/index.html and the second is http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm (also given in the first URL.) I'm really not sure if the two URLs are related though. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Sep 25 11:04:17 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: apple][ PC bus card Message-ID: <199709251604.AA04129@world.std.com> AS a result of finding a tandy 1000 I also aquired (in said tandy) a Diamond Computer Systems Trackstar-128. What it is that I know of. It is a 128k apple][ board that resides in a XT PC and can use the PC disks or external apple compatable disks to run apple OS and programs. I have the borad and very thin installation manual for it. it however is totally lacking in software. What makes it interesting is there are two 65sc02p-1s on it. Any further data or software for it would be of interest. Also information on the 65SC02 would be of interest. I know it's basically 6502 but I've been told the later versions have extensions to the basic instruction set. Allison From dastar at crl.com Thu Sep 25 11:38:14 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: apple][ PC bus card In-Reply-To: <199709251604.AA04129@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > Also information on the 65SC02 would be of interest. I know it's basically > 6502 but I've been told the later versions have extensions to the basic > instruction set. The 65C02 runs slightly faster than the 6502 (1.1Mhz vs 1Mhz?) as well as having an expanded instruction set. I never got into using any 65C02 instructions so I don't know what they'd be. Mostly it expanded the addressing modes of some existing operations as well as adding some addressing modes to instructions which didn't have any before (I think). I'm not the person to ask I guess :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Sep 25 11:57:27 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: apple][ PC bus card Message-ID: <199709251659.LAA07595@sunflower.com> Speaking of Ko0ky apple stuff, I got an Appletalk PC card. M2050. I have the box and card and docs. Anyone have the darn software? What can this thing do? I also got a complete TOPS set, with two isa cards and farralon jacks. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: apple][ PC bus card > Date: Thursday, September 25, 1997 11:38 AM > > On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Also information on the 65SC02 would be of interest. I know it's basically > > 6502 but I've been told the later versions have extensions to the basic > > instruction set. > > The 65C02 runs slightly faster than the 6502 (1.1Mhz vs 1Mhz?) as well as > having an expanded instruction set. I never got into using any 65C02 > instructions so I don't know what they'd be. Mostly it expanded the > addressing modes of some existing operations as well as adding some > addressing modes to instructions which didn't have any before (I think). > I'm not the person to ask I guess :) > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From pb14 at leicester.ac.uk Thu Sep 25 12:07:22 1997 From: pb14 at leicester.ac.uk (Phil Beesley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: apple][ PC bus card Message-ID: <9F6BB538FB@orchid.le.ac.uk> > On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Also information on the 65SC02 would be of interest. I know it's basically > > 6502 but I've been told the later versions have extensions to the basic > > instruction set. > There was some discussion on chip differences recently in the Apple II newsgroups so you may pick it up using something like DejaNews. The 65SC02 was apparently also used in the Franklin Ace 2200, an Apple IIe-ish clone, and some games allegedly did not like the fact that it wasn't a 65C02. Phil ************************************************************** Phil Beesley -- Computer Officer -- Distributed Systems Suppport University of Leicester Tel (0)116 252-2231 E-Mail pb14@le.ac.uk From dastar at crl.com Thu Sep 25 13:09:34 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: apple][ PC bus card In-Reply-To: <9F6BB538FB@orchid.le.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Phil Beesley wrote: > There was some discussion on chip differences recently in the Apple II > newsgroups so you may pick it up using something like DejaNews. The > 65SC02 was apparently also used in the Franklin Ace 2200, an Apple > IIe-ish clone, and some games allegedly did not like the fact that it > wasn't a 65C02. Some software took advantage of the new instructions and would not work on an old 6502 (ProTerm v2.0 I remember in particular since I wanted to use it but only had a lowly unenhanced //e). As well, some software would crash on the 65C02 because they took advantage of bugs in the 6502. Once in particular was an indirect jump that crossed a page boundary. Like so... 0800: 20 ... 08FE: 6C 00 10 JMP $(1000) ... 1000: 00 40 .. 2000: 00 60 Ok, so those who know what an indirect JuMP instruction is supposed to do on a 6502 would suspect that this will jump to $4000. Well, you're WRONG! It actually jumps to $6000. The bug was, instead of getting the address from $08FF-$0900 like you'd suspect, it was getting it from $08FF and $0800 instead! So instead of looking at $1000 for the address to jump to it would look in $2000. Funky. One game I know in particular that fell victim to this bug in its attempts to thwart pirates was Randamn. It will crash on an enhanced //e or //c, and probably a //gs as well. I have a fix for this if anyone cares. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From s-ware at nwu.edu Thu Sep 25 13:27:34 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: apple][ PC bus card In-Reply-To: <199709251604.AA04129@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > What it is that I know of. It is a 128k apple][ board that resides in > a XT PC and can use the PC disks or external apple compatable disks > to run apple OS and programs. I have the borad and very thin installation > manual for it. it however is totally lacking in software. What makes it > interesting is there are two 65sc02p-1s on it. Any further data or software > for it would be of interest. I bought one of these about 8 years ago when Radio Shack put them on "Where-Is-As-Is". The TrackStar works relatively well, but it is much more usable with a composite monitor and a real Apple floppy drive than it is with PC components. I used a monitor with both digital RGBI/CGA and composite inputs and just switched the monitor input when changing between Apple II and IBM PC modes. Trackstar software and information is available from the classiccmp FTP site - haliotis.bothell.washington.edu . I have the original disks somewhere, but it will take some digging to find them. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From bjorn at ktb.net Thu Sep 25 13:26:49 1997 From: bjorn at ktb.net (Bjorn T. Eng) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Restoration questions. Message-ID: Hi, I've got an Apple-I that I'm going to take out of a box in the attic and try to set back up for showing/playing. I've seen several postings about what components "should" or "shouldn't" be in a vintage system. What's the feeling on replacing TTL chips, voltage regulators, etc? Should I scour the land to find "vintage" parts or can I buy stuff from regular electronics stores? (I don't actually KNOW that I need to replace anything yet, just asking) On a similar note: The Apple-I was a kit. Mine's just a bare board mounted inside a plain aluminum box. Was there ever a case made for these? Or did everyone just do what the guy who put mine together did? One last question: The Apple-I has on-board voltage regulators, diodes etc. to be used with a Do-it-yourself transformer setup. Can I just bypass all that and use a power supply from a PC with leads connected to the regulated side of things? The board uses the ususal +/-5V and +/-12V if I remember correctly... Thanks for any tips, Bjorn Eng From jrbrady at delphi.com Thu Sep 25 14:04:43 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <01IO2B9IDZZ68WZIVT@delphi.com> Many collectors have multiple systems and peripherals that can be cannibalized for parts if anything in their primary machine fails, but what about maintaining an inventory of discrete components such as ICs or those 150,000 Mfd filter capacitors? I reviewed the availability of parts for many of my systems and found that most components are readily available. Others were more difficult to locate or were listed under another industry part number (e.g., a "25LS2521" is actually a "74LS688"). Do you think it's worth the effort to purchase spare discrete components? Are there any specific categories of devices or parts that are prone to damage, failure, or extinction? Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Sep 25 14:35:56 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Trs80 model 4 Message-ID: <199709251934.OAA12793@sunflower.com> Anyone have a term program for this machine? Preferably on a disk that TRSDOS62 will read? From william at ans.net Thu Sep 25 14:42:08 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: <01IO2B9IDZZ68WZIVT@delphi.com> Message-ID: > Many collectors have multiple systems and peripherals that can be > cannibalized for parts if anything in their primary machine fails, > but what about maintaining an inventory of discrete components such > as ICs or those 150,000 Mfd filter capacitors? It really depends on you. Many of us are packrats that keep just about anything more useful than a burnt out light bulb. Others do not want to keep anything other than common spares. Your space has much to do with this. By all means, use this list for parts requests! Unless what you need is truely exotic, I think (hope) most of us would sell the spare for the price of postage (at least that is how much of the old ham radio community works). > I reviewed the availability of parts for many of my systems and found > that most components are readily available. Others were more difficult > to locate or were listed under another industry part number (e.g., a > "25LS2521" is actually a "74LS688"). Yes, just about any (non-custom) chip can be found if you look. Even many of the extremely obsolete numbers (700 series RTL, 300 series ECL, etc.) are not impossible (hard, yes) to find. > Do you think it's worth the effort to purchase spare discrete components? I keep quite a stock of chips and discrete components around, probably more than most people. I also keep old boards so I can pluck out chips as needed (I just found some early seventies boards loaded with 900 series DTL and 9N00 series TTL, all in cerdips. Will I start removing the chips? No, not now - the boards they are in make handy carriers.). Of course, keeping an inventory is for the well discplined - something I need to work at. > Are there any specific categories of devices or parts that are prone to > damage, failure, or extinction? ^^^^^^^^^^^ There was a small thread about this when the list was very young. It is probably worth starting again. Any takers? I will start with a few: Early or weird EPROMS: 1702s, 2704s, 2708s, 2516s, 2532s. Early glue: 300 series ECL, 400 and 4000 series TTL, 700 series RTL, 1000 series ECL, 800 and 900 series DTL. Glue made by unusual companies: Philco and Sylvania. Early microprocessors: 8080 (they are drying up!), 6800 series support chips (6810, 6830, 6859, etc.). Also, early (licensed) clones, like the 9080, and the Intersil 6100. Early memory: 4K DRAMs (I forgot the numbers). Analogs: 1402A (I think) core sense amplifier, in cans. Transistors: 2N404, just about any pre 2N1000 parts. Passives: Not many, most are still available. Additions welcome! William Donzelli william@ans.net From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 25 14:46:44 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? References: <01IO2B9IDZZ68WZIVT@delphi.com> Message-ID: <342ABFA4.CE88F3EA@rain.org> Jason R. Brady wrote: > Many collectors have multiple systems and peripherals that can be > cannibalized for parts if anything in their primary machine fails, > > > Do you think it's worth the effort to purchase spare discrete components? > Are there any specific categories of devices or parts that are prone to > damage, failure, or extinction? Right now, I tend to think in terms of the early hard-to-get parts such as the early memory chips and constantly ask about old, obsolete parts. It would be useful to have a list of the parts that are hard to obtain such as the 4004 and 8008 microprocessors, 1101 memory chips, and a few others I can't recall off the top of my head. While I used to give parts away just to get rid of them, that has changed and I try to stockpile known good chips now. Will they ever be used and is worth the effort? Darned if I know :). From william at ans.net Thu Sep 25 14:52:39 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Restoration questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I've seen several postings about what components "should" or "shouldn't" > be in a vintage system. What's the feeling on replacing TTL chips, voltage > regulators, etc? Should I scour the land to find "vintage" parts or can I > buy stuff from regular electronics stores? (I don't actually KNOW that I > need to replace anything yet, just asking) With something this valuable (historical or otherwise), I would use vintage parts for the most case. The only things I would be hesitant to use are vintage electrolytic capacitors - they tend to age badly and can ruin your whole day). Use somewhat modern capacitors. The most important thing is the document EVERYTHING you do - pictures, notes, etc. Also, mark any replaced components with a brief note - if the machine and your notes seperate, future historians will have more to work with. The notes (maybe scribing the new chips), or attaching a tough label) need not be big nor right up front, just obvious enough to anyone doing a historical audit of the thing. While some of this seems far fetched or overkill, if you ever decide to sell the thing, it may make a big difference in the price. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Sep 25 17:46:52 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: <01IO2B9IDZZ68WZIVT@delphi.com> from "Jason R. Brady" at Sep 25, 97 12:04:43 pm Message-ID: <9709252146.AA20124@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 865 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970925/406d11ba/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 25 18:47:13 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Restoration questions. In-Reply-To: from "Bjorn T. Eng" at Sep 25, 97 11:26:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2635 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/510af63b/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Sep 25 19:28:47 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: [Vax equipment freely available] Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970925172847.009bb100@agora.rdrop.com> An opportunity for someone in the Detroit area: >From: "eaml" >Newsgroups: comp.os.vms >Subject: Vax equipment freely available >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 10:48:22 -0400 > >We currently have the following equipment freely available to anyone >interested: > >MicroVAX II >Letter Writer 100 >VT240(broken) > > >There is no warranty or maintenance on this equipment.This is a donation to >the VMS community. >The only thing we ask is that you pick it up from our premises at: > > >Gallagher Kaiser Corp. >13710 Mt Elliott >Detroit MI 48212 >Phone (313) 368-3100 > >Fax (313) 368-0415 > >Attn: Emilio Moreno Ext. #123 > --- Replys/inquirys to the address shown in the message. I'm just forwarding this along! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Sep 25 19:46:16 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Restoration questions. Message-ID: > I've got an Apple-I that I'm going to take out of a box in the attic and >try to set back up for showing/playing. Oooh. You have no idea what I would do just to see one of them, much less what I would do to own one. :) >I've seen several postings about what components "should" or "shouldn't" >be in a vintage system. What's the feeling on replacing TTL chips, voltage >regulators, etc? Should I scour the land to find "vintage" parts or can I >buy stuff from regular electronics stores? (I don't actually KNOW that I >need to replace anything yet, just asking) I also suggest that you try to be original, and document everything. And if you can avoid replacment, do so. The Apple I is a genuine collectable computer, and as such should be treated as per any genuine collectable - the more original it is, the more valuable it will be. >On a similar note: The Apple-I was a kit. Mine's just a bare board mounted >inside a plain aluminum box. Was there ever a case made for these? Or did >everyone just do what the guy who put mine together did? Apple sold them to "The Byte Shop" with no case, power supply or keyboard (all available seperatly), but in order to increase the sales the store commisioned cases from a local cabinetmaker. These were made of koa wood, and look extremly nice (to my tastes). I've always thought it would be keen to have a computer in a wooden case, but apple clearly beat me to it. Anyway, I believe I have a small gif around here somewhere of the Apple I in it's koa wood case - would you like me to send it along to you as an attachment? Adam. From dastar at crl.com Thu Sep 25 19:50:19 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > It really depends on you. Many of us are packrats that keep just about > anything more useful than a burnt out light bulb. Others do not want to > keep anything other than common spares. Your space has much to do with > this. You throw away your burnt-out light bulbs? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Sep 25 20:06:59 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Computers on Telly (was: War Games) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970925180623.5c87539c@ricochet.net> Miscellaneous Computer-related shows have been mentioned (Whiz Kids, Knight Rider, Riptide, Automan, etc.) but have y'all seen a show called Reboot? It's animated, and shown (generally, I think) saturday mornings on ABC (Again, I think). It takes place inside a computer and the good guys are always battling the evil virii, and such. All the characters are computer-related terms/objects. It's definitely worth watching at least once. (I was turned onto it in Ottawa, Canada, so I know it gets around somewhat.) Of course, there's no David Hassellhoff... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Sep 25 20:07:02 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970925180626.5c87052c@ricochet.net> At 02:38 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >I agree. It's also interesting to read between the lines of this thread >and note that some people would definately be the type to do "concours" >restorations. (Personally, I draw the line at worrying about the color of >the ribbon cables.) What does that mean for those of us that show up at British car meets and park next to the pristine Rollses, jags, bentleys, and so on, in mud-covered Land Rovers? 8^) Personally, I like computers in as new condition as possible, but I'm not fanatically about it, and Upgrades/expansions don't matter much to me. I actually like used machines because they have a history behind them. Someone used them, and maybe they added a bigger hard disk or a better video card. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Sep 25 20:07:08 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970925180632.5df721b2@ricochet.net> At 04:44 PM 9/24/97 -0500, you wrote: >This is particularly evident in the realm of old games. If you have an >old Ultima for the Apple ][, complete with everything it came with, it >will fetch a pretty penny. I did a search at Amazon.Com for "Atari" and was surprised to see quite a few 8-bit games and programs show up, and with prices like $50. I think they were pretty much all labeled "Special Order", but they were listed... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Sep 25 20:07:05 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970925180629.5c87052c@ricochet.net> At 03:17 PM 9/24/97 -0600, you wrote: >lifetime! Once it gets to this point, it will cease to be a 'fun' >hobby, and will turn into a commercialized, over-marketed >'investment vehicle'. Coin & Stamp collecting, Baseball cards, and Not all coin collecting is like that. Certainly, modern US (with the grading services and all) is like that, but there are still many areas of numismatics that are still open to hobbiests. Large cents, Fugio Cents (my personal favorite), colonials, canadian, a lot of foreign, tokens, and so on still offer lots of opportunity for learning, research, and fun, without being so sanitary and heartless as a lot of such hobbies. Important note: Buy the book before you buy the coin. Know what you are doing, or you *will* get burned. (There's a company ala QVC that sells coins on TV at night -- Things like 3 Susan B. Anthony dollars for $10, when you can go to the post office and get the exact same thing for $3.) I think that even if the collecting of original PC's and Imsai's and such becomes too mainstream, there will still be plenty for the rest of us. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dastar at crl.com Thu Sep 25 20:02:39 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Restoration questions. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Adam Jenkins wrote: > Apple sold them to "The Byte Shop" with no case, power supply or keyboard > (all available seperatly), but in order to increase the sales the store > commisioned cases from a local cabinetmaker. These were made of koa wood, > and look extremly nice (to my tastes). I've always thought it would be > keen to have a computer in a wooden case, but apple clearly beat me to it. So did NorthStar with the early Horizons, Processor Technology Sol-20's had wooden sides, and Cromemco came out with a dual 8" (Persci) drive that had a beautiful all wood cabinet. BTW, all of the above will be on display at the Vintage Computer Festival (plug). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Thu Sep 25 20:06:12 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970925180629.5c87052c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Sep 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > I think that even if the collecting of original PC's and Imsai's and such > becomes too mainstream, there will still be plenty for the rest of us. Of course there will. Once people start hearing that old computers are collectable, you'll start to see all sorts of computers considered "rare" start to pour out of the woodwork (almost literally) as people start digging them out of their closets, garages, attics and basements all over the country. Hell, someday we'll ALL have Apple I's! Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 25 18:53:24 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: <01IO2B9IDZZ68WZIVT@delphi.com> from "Jason R. Brady" at Sep 25, 97 12:04:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/a90f8b63/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 25 19:07:42 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:07 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Sep 25, 97 03:42:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/e90e8350/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Thu Sep 25 20:37:57 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And a programmer for same :-) > Remmber that a 2764 and a trivial kludge-board (which can even be made on > stripboard) will replace the 2704 onwards. Not historically accurate, but > it may get the machine working again Most EPROMs are socketed anyway, so such a hack is completely reverseable. > PALs - particularly the XOR ones like the 16X4. The common GALs won't > replace these, although I noticed that Lattice do sell a GAL with XOR > terms. No idea what to program in on, though. Come to think of it, XOR term PALs really are not very common. The others tend to be, but in ten or so years, may be quite rare. > Ditto 4 bit (4004, 4040) and support devices, the Intel 8008 (esp if > you're a DEC enthusiast with a number of 11/34's to maintain - it's used > on the front panel controller), 65xx support chips (6532, etc) (esp if > you're a CBM person), TI 99xx, AMD2900, Intel 3000 (bit-slice chips), > Zilog Z8000 and support chips, etc. Sorry about exluding the very early Intel stuff - how could I forget! I see quite a bit of the 65xx support chips - perhaps they are not very rare were I used to live (Chicago area). For those confused, I meant to say 6850, not 6859. The Motorola 6859 is probably the hardest support chip to find of them all - it is the DES chip for the 6800. I am sure that none left this country (at least legally). > It depends on the machines you work on. If you're a home-computer > collector there's little point in getting piles of 29xx bit-slice chips. > PERQ fanatics probably don't need any Intel CPUs, etc. Yes, but if you find a tube of useless (to you) raries for buck, you might as well get them! Otherwise they might end up at the chip choppers. > 4027? or some permutation of those digits. There are lots, all very similar. Most are in 24 pin DIPs. > _Most_ transistors can be substituted if you realise why the original one > was chosen and have a good set of transistor data. A curve tracer (like a > Tektronix 575) can be useful for determining the characteristics of an > unknown (but working) device. I understand that most any similar transistor will work in the old machines, as the logic gates were designed to handle the huge swings in quality the transistors had in the early 1960s. It is nice to have matching originals, as some of the transistors of the period were a bit odd looking. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jruschme at exit109.com Thu Sep 25 19:47:01 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970925180626.5c87052c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: >At 02:38 PM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I agree. It's also interesting to read between the lines of this thread >>and note that some people would definately be the type to do "concours" >>restorations. (Personally, I draw the line at worrying about the color of >>the ribbon cables.) > >What does that mean for those of us that show up at British car meets and >park next to the pristine Rollses, jags, bentleys, and so on, in mud-covered >Land Rovers? 8^) Then there's my friend who is restoring the TR-6. Apparently, the running joke in those circles is that you never actually *finish* restoring one... <<>> From william at ans.net Thu Sep 25 20:59:20 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: F100K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So all of this chip talk got me thinking... Was any machine (most likely mainframe class) ever built using F100K ECL (the super fast stuff - even today)? The family is small but well thought out, and includes some rather bizarre functions. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Sep 25 22:28:56 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <199709260328.AA19063@world.std.com> At 20:07 9/25/97 -0500, you wrote: >What does that mean for those of us that show up at British car meets and >park next to the pristine Rollses, jags, bentleys, and so on, in mud-covered >Land Rovers? 8^) It means hearing a lot of people say "Hey, Roger! I see you got it running again!" ;-) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Sep 26 00:44:38 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: HP 150 II (fwd) In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Wed, 24 Sep 1997 18:07:30 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199709260544.WAA26260@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell writes: > 1) Touchscreen is an user-installable option From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Sep 26 09:18:10 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: F100K Message-ID: <199709261418.AA21441@world.std.com> I have a complete IBM 5100 system available (CPU, external drives, printer, all documentation). Works fine, so far as I know. Unfortunately, the guy has some money into it, and wants some for it. It is in Northwestern Ohio. Offers? manney@nwohio.com p.s. I need an Apple disk drive...anyone have one? Is any one out there an Apple expert and is interested in answering questions? If so, please e-mail me. From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Sep 26 10:24:53 1997 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Are these really worth keeping? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970925180629.5c87052c@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <18822BA6665C@ifrsys.com> Uncle Roger Wrote: > At 03:17 PM 9/24/97 -0600, you wrote: > >lifetime! Once it gets to this point, it will cease to be a 'fun' > >hobby, and will turn into a commercialized, over-marketed > >'investment vehicle'. Coin & Stamp collecting, Baseball cards, and > > Not all coin collecting is like that. Certainly, modern US (with the > grading services and all) is like that, but there are still many areas of > numismatics that are still open to hobbiests. Large cents, Fugio Cents (my ^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^ > personal favorite), colonials, canadian, a lot of foreign, tokens, and so on ^^^^^^^^^ > still offer lots of opportunity for learning, research, and fun, without > being so sanitary and heartless as a lot of such hobbies. > > Important note: Buy the book before you buy the coin. Know what you are > doing, or you *will* get burned. (There's a company ala QVC that sells > coins on TV at night -- Things like 3 Susan B. Anthony dollars for $10, when > you can go to the post office and get the exact same thing for $3.) > > I think that even if the collecting of original PC's and Imsai's and such > becomes too mainstream, there will still be plenty for the rest of us. > Whoa! Yer talkin' about some high-dollar items there, guy! But really the point I was trying to make is that 'Vintage Computing' still belongs to 'us', the hobbyists. I've seen supplies dry up, prices go up, and overall enjoyment factor go down when a hobby officially becomes 'a business'. For me, the real draw of 'Vintage Computing' is that you can get alot of really cool, historic stuff for next to nothing (Apple I prices notwithstanding, of course ;-). Last time I priced a Fugio (a fave of mine as well), they seemed expensive to me. More than I could spend on just a 'hobby'. That's was about when I called it quits in 1978. The 'hobby' had become a bit rich for my blood, with even 'common' issues overpriced. I just don't want Marketing and commercialization to ruin yet another hobby . . . Jeff From engine at chac.org Fri Sep 26 10:06:43 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com> Since I've been on the list for a few days now, I'm getting used to the volume of the traffic, but I have a suggestion to make managing it a bit easier. Like most of us, I suspect, I like to segregate the received traffic so I can archive it. Why don't we take a leaf from CYHIST's playbook and start putting a flag at the front of the Subject: (as I did above) to make it easier to sort? This would be especially valuable for me since I receive both list and non-list mail from a few people. TIA, __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Fri Sep 26 10:12:05 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: TRS-80 model 4 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970926081200.00f1b560@pop.batnet.com> Well, I was startled last night. I went to Back to School Night in my son's tenth-grade classes, walked into one of the rooms (which was obviously shared among several subjects) and there....were about seven TRS-80 model 4's, networked -- or at least set up with some kind of print sharing -- and clearly in daily use. Unfortunately my son's teacher wasn't the one who used them, so she knew nothing about them. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Sep 26 10:40:23 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: TRS-80 model 4 Message-ID: <199709261539.KAA14121@sunflower.com> That's too bad, Id love to get ahold of some software, just a boot disk is boring..... ---------- > From: Kip Crosby > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: TRS-80 model 4 > Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 10:12 AM > > Well, I was startled last night. > > I went to Back to School Night in my son's tenth-grade classes, walked into > one of the rooms (which was obviously shared among several subjects) and > there....were about seven TRS-80 model 4's, networked -- or at least set up > with some kind of print sharing -- and clearly in daily use. Unfortunately > my son's teacher wasn't the one who used them, so she knew nothing about them. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Sep 26 11:26:17 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Trs80 model 4 In-Reply-To: <199709251934.OAA12793@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970926122617.006f1e68@mail.wincom.net> At 02:35 PM 9/25/97 -0500, you wrote: >Anyone have a term program for this machine? Preferably on a disk that >TRSDOS62 will read? > > > Have you checked out the "comm" utility program that is supposed to be included in TRSDOS6? In my manual it is listed as "a communications package for use with the RS-232C hardware". From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Sep 26 11:37:42 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Trs80 model 4 Message-ID: <199709261640.LAA16308@sunflower.com> Nope, didn't know it was there. About all I know is how to format and copy. I'll have to look at that, thanks. ---------- > From: Charles E. Fox > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Trs80 model 4 > Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 11:26 AM > > At 02:35 PM 9/25/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Anyone have a term program for this machine? Preferably on a disk that > >TRSDOS62 will read? > > > > > > > Have you checked out the "comm" utility program that is supposed to be > included in TRSDOS6? In my manual it is listed as "a communications package > for use with the RS-232C hardware". From dastar at crl.com Fri Sep 26 11:51:36 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: FS: IBM 5100 & need Apple FDD In-Reply-To: <199709261444.HAA01426@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, PG Manney wrote: > I have a complete IBM 5100 system available (CPU, external drives, printer, > all documentation). Works fine, so far as I know. > > Unfortunately, the guy has some money into it, and wants some for it. > > It is in Northwestern Ohio. > > Offers? $100? > p.s. I need an Apple disk drive...anyone have one? Is any one out there an > Apple expert and is interested in answering questions? If so, please e-mail > me. Ask away. I grew up on Apple. I also have several disk drives available, plus controller cards, and other stuff. What did you need? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jrbrady at delphi.com Fri Sep 26 15:21:27 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <01IO3S95RYKM8X0IHI@delphi.com> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 William Donzelli wrote: >It really depends on you. Many of us are packrats that keep just about >anything more useful than a burnt out light bulb. Others do not want to Uh, that's me -- much to the chagrin of my better half. >By all means, use this list for parts requests! Unless what you need is >truely exotic, I think (hope) most of us would sell the spare for the Ok, how about a 9511A or 9512 math co-processor chip (Intel 8231A or 8232)? The Intel web site has info on the 8231A only. Jameco, JDR Microdevices, and about 10 other catalogs make no mention of them. Thanks, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From jrbrady at delphi.com Fri Sep 26 15:21:30 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <01IO3S97LVAI8X0IHI@delphi.com> On Thu, 25 Sep 1997 Tim Shoppa wrote: > :-). You've been looking at Compupro boards, haven't you? Tim, how'dja guess that? ;-) >I've got a small number of spare 25LS2521/74LS688's available if you >need them. (For those not in the know, these are address comparators >used on Compupro's S-100 boards.) That's okay, I have spares. >It is very worthwhile to have "backup" (i.e. paper and/or magnetic >media versions) of EPROM's and PAL's. Uh, oh. Compupro had a love affair with PALs. At least I have a programmer for the EPROMs. PALs are new to me - is stability an issue with these devices? > The most commonly blown parts >are line drivers, I find - and these are commodity parts most >of the time (i.e. 1488's/1489's). And the tantalum capacitors. Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From jrbrady at delphi.com Fri Sep 26 15:21:32 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <01IO3S99G1N28X0IHI@delphi.com> On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 Tony Duell wrote: > >Indeed. Sorting out things like that (and noting it in the service >manual) is a pleasant morning's work with a pile of data books. It helps >if you already know the TTL and standard EPROM pinouts. Working with electronics is a hobby, not my profession, so I don't mind doing a fair amount of research. For me it's the best way to learn, and I enjoy the challenge. [It helps repair the damage to my brain done during the day by my regular job!] Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Sep 26 11:35:52 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Computers in Movies (was: War Games) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970924140216.3e9fcfee@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: <199709262031.QAA01697@smtp.interlog.com> > At 09:48 AM 9/24/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Do you remember what the palm top was in T2? > > Atari Portfolio (with the rare ATM interface kit (aka, the Tramiel special)) > 8^) > Was the ATM any relation to the Atari Portfolio Smart Parrallel Interface ? I have one but still haven't managed to find a Portfolio for my collection. Got the wagon but not the mule. : ^ ) ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 26 09:44:40 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Sep 25, 97 09:37:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2051 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/3199b1a2/attachment.ksh From c-bristol at usa.net Fri Sep 26 17:25:13 1997 From: c-bristol at usa.net (c) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11's, Peripherals, Docs, Unix, etc. for sale; L.A., CA. Message-ID: <199709262226.RAA14159@smtp.gte.net> How can I add my name to receive this list? c-bristol@usa.net TABLE OF CONTENTS: 1. SOUND EQUIPMENT 2. COMPUTER ANTIQUES (CORE memory, etc.) 3. COMPUTER EQUIPMENT (IBM style; non-IBM style) 4. OFFICE EQUIPMENT and FURNITURE (Fireproof Cab) 5. MISC. (Tools, Elec.Test Equip.,Bikes,Backpack) 6. BUILDING MATERIALS and TOOLS 7. THINGS I WANT TO BUY / TRADE FOR REPLY TO: c-bristol@usa.net From: Chris Bristol, a private party. All items are in Los Angeles, CA, USA. Reason for sale: moving overseas. All prices are very negotiable, and trades possible. ** COMPUTER ANTIQUES for your desktop or office wall, *********** ****************************** "an emerging collectable" ******** CORE MEMORY BOARDS: These are very pretty after you open the covers and show off the core planes. This type of memory was invented by Jay Forester of MIT in about 1955. Some of my boards are from MIT from my college days. The "1" or "0" is stored in little donut about 1 to 2mm in diameter--one donut per bit. Each donut is threaded by hand with two wires, one in the X axis, and one in the Y axis. This makes something that looks like a weird SciFi fabric. Then the fabric "planes" are stacked about 1/2 deep total. The thousands of hair-thin wires were hand assembled, generally by oriental women. Each wire connects to driver IC's and transistors, and control logic. This memory was non-volatile. These boards are mostly 16Kbytes, some 32Kbytes. They have pretty gold contacts, from the days before about 1968 when gold was thick and fixed at $20 per ounce. They were made for the PDP-11. Many of them work fine, if you have a PDP-11. Hang it on your wall in a glass case, to show you are not wet behind the ears in the computer business. Every computer museum should have one. $50 per board. HUGE FLOPPY DISKS, 8", Drive for this (DSD RX01) is below at $95. Put one or two of these 8" floppies on your wall, adding a 5 1/4" (also available) and 3 1/2" next to it. 8" floppies for $9 each, light to mail. PAPER TAPE: I have two paper tape readers, both work I think. I got one while at MIT, and it was built by an MIT company back in around 1960. It is all aluminum and stainless steel, very pretty. The other is a more normal factory made unit. I also have some fan-fold paper tape for these. My paper tape is software and diagnostics for DEC PDP-11's. $25. IBM CARDS: "Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate" they used to say. These have Fortran and other programs and data on them. Some cards have UCLA logo. $25. VERY BIG TAPE DRIVES, like you see in the movies. $130 for two, see listing under "PERTEC" below. Also, see below "DECTAPE", a very funny tape drive. In operation, both move back and forth all the time. The perfect atmosphere for your Cyber Caf?. Or buy a whole PDP-11 and display it, and maybe operate it. **** COMPUTER EQUIPMENT: ************************************** *IBM STYLE OR CAN BE USED WITH IBM: **************************** TAPE CARTIDGES, have about 30, $110 all obo, 3M DC-600, DC-300, DC-300A, 80 MB capacity, large 5" wide cartridges, many new shrink wrapped. IBM AT clone, Intel 80286 CPU, 12 SLOTS (ISA) good for hobbyist (normal is more like 6 slots or less), 1 MB Ram, Serial, Parallel, 40MB Seagate HDD, 2 5 1/4" floppies - one 1.2MB, Monochrome Monitor (orange phosphor) plugged into Hercules /CGA/MGA compatible display card, DOS 3.2, Framework, etc. software included, word processing, $100 all obo. DISK DRIVE, 5 1/4 inch style, 40MB IDE from an IBM AT compatible, 2 of them, $25 each FLOPPY DRIVE, 3 1/2", in its own cute stand-alone case that includes a power supply, $25 PRINTER, Diablo daisy wheel, built in stand on casters, with keyboard (this is a "printing terminal", about 30 characters per second, fully formed. Have 3 identical printers, $35 each. PRINTER, DEC LA36 Decwriter II, with its own stand, with keyboard (this is a "printing terminal"), about 30 characters per second, dot matrix, work horse, can print carbon multipart forms on 14" wide paper, tractor feed, $50. PRINTING portable terminal, Texas Instruments "Silent 700" thermal paper printer, built in acoustic modem (300BPS)and keyboard. $30 *** THE OTHER COMPUTER EQUIPMENT IS NOT IBM STYLE, ********* * MOSTLY OLD DEC PDP-11 STYLE: ****************************** DEC PDP-11/34A with BIG Tape and Disk (6 ft high 1978 computer, cost $25,000) with RT-11 & optional Unix SW, working, $300 DEC PDP 11/45 w BIG tape & disc, 1973 6ft high computer, cost $40,000, w/RT-11 & UNIX software/UNIX license, 16 timeshare ports (DH11), $300 EMULEX disk controller board for DEC-11 or VAX, model SC21/B1, new $4,500, still unused in box, with SMD cables, $300 COMPUTER TERMINAL, "dumb terminal", nice black and white display, high resolution, VT-100 emulation. (This is not a monitor, and not IBM or Mac compatible.) Detached keyboard, from 1985, pretty, with manuals, $80. DISK DRIVE, old removable, model CDC 9762, 80MB "hatbox" disk pack included, pack cleaned and tested, with two sets of SMD cables if you want, a little smaller than a washing machine, works with Emulex above, $150 DISK DRIVE, DEC RK05 removable 2.5MB, with about 5 or 10 cartridges that have been stored nicely in my closet, about 80 lbs, $200 with disk packs. DISK DRIVE, BALL 160 (fixed, 160MB SMD interf, about 80 lbs),$50. DISK DRIVE, WANGCO 5MB top load, rack mount 10" high, 70 lbs, with about 8 disk packs that were well stored, compatible with DEC RL01, $80 with packs FLOPPY DISK DRIVE, DSD, 2 8" floppies in 10" rack box, runs a PDP-11, copy of DEC RX01, $95. Optional: RT-11 set, source, XXDP Diagnostics, on floppies TAPE DRIVES, PERTEC 8640?, 800/1600 PE 10" reel to reel, 9-track, 100 lbs, Pertec unformatted interface, have 2 of them, $130 both TAPE CONTROLLERS, for above to PDP 11, imitate DEC TM11, Complete and worked: Western Peripherals 130, $50, not working: Plessy and another WP copies of TM11. About 8 lbs each for board set, system unit, cables. DH11 16 RS232 port DMA interface for PDP-11, made by DEC, $100 DECTAPE, bracelet size tape reels, hold only 256KB, two drives w/ctrl, big, museum piece, $150. RACKS, DEC H960 general purpose 19" "relay racks", with sides, back, fans, power box, 6'H 21"W 30"D, with rear rails. Start an ISP full of modems or put your stereo in a rack, have 3, $90each RACK, open 19" relay rack, just front frame, on base with casters, 6'H, 20"W, 25"D base on casters, $50 MULTIBUS SYSTEM, disassembled. Ran UNIX, 68000 CPU card, Tashio HDD/floppy controller, HDD (80MB?), Floppy (1.6MB?), Cardcage, RAM, software. $90. DEC Expansion Cabinets (you add controllers and RAM in these boxes, which plug into 120VAC): BA11ES, BA11L, etc. about $60ea DEC MODULES: DL11 serials, M930, Unibus Cables, Printer interface, boxes of misc. boards for PDP-11's, black plastic "bezels", etc. MODEMS: external 1200BPS and 2400BPS. Fancy for their day, 2400 does nice auto dial monitoring. RS-232. $15, $25. DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: UNIX: full sets of docs for v.6, v.7, 4.1BSD, 4.2BSD, 4.3BSD, SUN OS2, SUN OS3, SunView. About 3 big file boxes of UNIX docs. Also have distribution tape of 2.9BSD for PDP-11 licensed to me from SCO (Santa Cruz Operation) and the PDP11 hardware it is licensed for. Cheap! DOCUMENTATION: SOFTWARE: DEC OS: Full set, RT-11 v2, v3, v4, partial RSX-11. Also have the software on floppy and RK05, and the PDP-11's that are licensed to run it. Cheap! Also Heathkit H-11 paper tape operating system, media and docs, new. DOCUMENTATION: HARDWARE: most all DEC PDP-11 docs from 1970-1985. Paper and microfiche. Also docs on compatibles from Plessy, Western Peripherals, Wangco, etc. Set of "Processor Handbooks" and "Perhipheral Handbooks". VIC-20 Commodore computer with tape deck, books, games, works, $75 **** SOUND EQUIPMENT: ***************************************** SPEAKERS, ACOUSTAT II, Audiophile full range electrostatic speakers, 5'H, 2'W, 6"D (thin), each plugs into 120VAC and to your amplifier, uses 4000 volts and no magnets to move silvered plastic film diaphragm, about 1/10 the distortion of conventional magnetic speakers, beautiful "reach out and touch it" realism of mid-range and high end, perfect for classical, simply-mixed vocals and acoustic instruments; appreciated by musicians. Like new with original boxes, black and walnut, new cost $2,200, sell $950 pair. Someone's comments on electrostatic speakers: http://www.digitaltheater.com/reviews/speaker21.html SPEAKERS: JANZEN Z-410 hybrid electrostatic speakers for audiophile. Uses 4 electrostatic panels, each 6" x 6", for mid-range and treble, blended with a conventional magnetic 10" woofer, all in a conventional large bookshelf type case of 15"W x 15"D x 28"H. Good compromise of electrostatic sound and conventional woofer; $500 the pair. TUBE FM TUNER, made by SHERWOOD, white front with gold color trim, brown steel rear case, uses green-glow tuning meter tube, works OK, cool looking, $110. CD PLAYER DECK, PHILLIPS (Netherlands) original CD player, top load, uses real blue-green gas laser (not cheap red LED laser like new players). Good for audiophile.(For your stereo, no amp or speakers included,) Works OK. $75. CASSETTE DECK; TEAC AN360S; High end deck from about 1980. Dolby, CR02 and all that, $65. TURNTABLE: PHILLIPS (Netherlands) 212A audiophile turntable with green touch-light switches for 33 and 45, straight fly-weight arm in integrated floating mount, including top of line Shure V15 type III cartridge, and spare cartridge of same type. Nice sound. $70 RECORD COLLECTION, mostly classic vinyl, a little audiophile. DOLBY B outboard processor, fancy unit made by Dolby labs with 2 huge 5" meters, 5"Hx18"Wx12"D front controls. $50. MXR 10-band stereo equalizer. For musician or home stereo or recording technician. Smaller than a cigar case, no display, only sliders. For portable use. RCA line ins/outs. $85. MIXER, TAPCO 6 in / 1 out mike mixer with 1/4" phone and XLR inputs and mechanical spring reverb. About 30 rotating controls. Condition: is beat up (I bought it used). $80 MICs and STANDS, assorted. POP and CLICK filter processor for LP records **** OFFICE EQUIPMENT AND FURNATURE: ************************** FIREPROOF safe-file cabinets w/S & G combo lock, (changeable), 2 drawer file, weighs about 250 lbs, one hr fire rated, very pro, letter size, 14"W x 33"D x 30"H, have 3, cost $1700 ea., sell $200 each FIREPROOF safe-file cabinet w S & G combo lock, (changeable), 4 drawer file, weighs about 500 lbs, one hr fire rated, very pro, letter size, 14"W x 33"D x 60"H, cost $2600, sell $350 TOOL CABINETS, steel, HD, 10 very deep drawers, for tools or parts, 29"H x 24"W x 30"D, have 2, $50 each TOOL CABINETS, tall, steel, HD, 20 very deep drawers, large, for tools or parts, 59"H x 24"W x 30"D, have 2, originally for IBM cards, $70 each STATIONARY CABINET, steel, 65"H x 30"W x 16"D, black, medium condition, $40 SHELVING, Industrial/warehouse steel type, 10 "units" for 7'H 4'W 3'D shelves, each unit 5 shelves, heavy angle iron verticals, nuts and bolts, most of shelves reinforced front and back, good for about 250 lbs per shelf. Also two units 7'H x 3'W x 3'D. Cost about $1900. Sell $400 all. **** MISC ****************************************************** OSCILOSCOPE, TEKTRONICS RM-31 (rack mount version of 531),Dual-trace 20 MHz, with probes, CA plug in, works well, about 35 lbs, $250. AUDIO SIGNAL GENERATOR, HP, rack mount, 19"W x 8" H x 9" D, 20Hz~20,000Hz, works OK, $50. FLOOR JACK for cars, 2 ton, consumer grade, with 2 jack-stands,$30. BLOCK AND TACKLE, large, 3/4" mannila rope, old, strong, $45 FLASH ATTACHMENT, HONEYWELL STROBONAR, used by professional newspaper photographers because puts out a lot of light, enabling shooting 80 feet away, rechargeable, $55. TELEPHONES: Small business telephones, 3 telephones each with 5 lines and hold button, Automatic Electric old style, but touch tone. No controller. All 3 for $75 BSR X-10 Home Automation hardware. A lot of it. 2 radio trasmitters, telephone controller, ultrasonic controller, 3-wire built in outlets, built in dimmer switches, appliance and lamp modules. CASSETTE RECORDER, portable, bigger than a cigar box, GE special variable speed, separately variable pitch using fancy chips, from 50% to 200% speed and no donald duck voice. For speech. AC/DC, cost $275, sell $100. CASSETTE RECORDER, portable, pocket size (walkman size), for dictation, standard cassettes, rechargeable, with extra bat. pack and extra charger, cost $200, sell $85. CASSETTE RECORDER, Sony TC-45, equal to size of a cigar box, with AC adapter, for dictation, good cond, $50. BACKPACK, green, external aluminum frame, med-lrg size, ex comd $20 BICYCLE #1, RALIEGH SUPER COURSE, 10-speed touring bike, top model, Reynolds 531 alum. Frame, alum. Rims, quick release hubs, Heret derailer/shifts, 25.5" frame, made in England, brown, when new was $500, $175. BICYCLE #2, RALIEGH GRAND PRIX, 10-speed touring bike, middle quality model, made in England, Campagnolo (Italy) derailer, 23.5" frame, green, when new was $275, $80. SHEEPSKIN CAR SEAT COVERS, for tall back one-piece with headrest, brand new and NEVER installed, high quality, black color (yes, black, or rather charcoal), cost $150, sell $45 the pair. VACUUM CLEANER, Hoover Dial-a-matic, best home upright ever made, very powerful, good beater brush, with full set of attachments (hose, drapes tool, big and small crevice tool, etc.), hard case, green, $75. VACUUM CLEANER, Kenmore, very old-1950, powerful, tank type, shaped like a big bullet (rotated ellipse cut flat at back) a little art deco, also will attach air to exhaust to become a blower, with attachments and extra paper bags and cloth bag. $50 MIMEOGRAPH PRINTING PRESS, AB DICK, electric, with auto counter shut off, paste ink comes through stencil wrapped on drum onto paper, lowest cost per copy ever (basically cost of the paper), loads 500 sheets at a time, 1 second per copy, popular with SciFi small volume self-publishers, very good condition, used it myself, $80. SO you don't smoke or drink; you're a man with no vices? Buy a.... VICE, large bench vice, maybe 25 lbs, $20 COMPRESSOR and SPRAY PAINT GUN, small cheap kind, 20' air hose, for painting cars, 1 pint gun capacity, can also use for filling car tires, but not enough air volume for most power tools. $50 AIR TANK, portable, looks like 20" high propane tank, stick pressure meter, for taking air to your car and such, $25; optional fancy blow-clean gun with tip set, $15. CHAIR, judge style, 4 casters, swivel and tilt, finished wood base and arm supports, black naugahyde (vinyl) back and armrests, black cloth bottom. $40. CHAIR, office type, low, black vinyl back and arm rests, black cloth bottom, chrome swivel and casters, so-so condition, $15 NIKON camera, model:NIKORMAT, contains meter, twist f-stop setting, with standard lense, about 1975 or earlier, non-AI mount fully manual, non-electric shutter, $125. TV, 12", AC, Black and White, $30. TV, 5", AC/DC (9 x "D" cell), Black and White, $25. TV, 19" color "portable", with remote, little used, $130. CAR REPAIR MANUALS: BMW 2002, 2x 3" looseleaf binders, orig. factory fancy manual, costs about $150, sell $45, also Haynes for 2002 thrown in // Chiltons for Toyota 4x4 pickup circa 1984 // Honda 600 factory looseleaf and Haynes both $35. ANSWERING MACHINES for telephone, older style, have two, both use two cassettes, simple Sanyo $30; Fancy Tandy 150 solinoid mech. and date/time digitally on tape, $55. DESK LAMPS, Flourescent (2 long tubes) adjustable arm clamp on type, old, have 3 of them, $15 each. **** BUILDING MATERIALS / TOOLS: ***************************** 12 AWG Wire for house wiring, solid, single conductor (for pulling) THNN, White, 2 500 foot spools, new, $20 both. SNAKE for pulling above wire, about 30 foot, used once, in yellow plastic $15. TAR PAPER, 1 roll, about 3' x 100' $15 FLOORING, 6' x 6' fake-wood parquet vinyl, Armstrong thick no-glue type, $12 **** THINGS I WANT TO BUY OR WILL TAKE IN TRADE FOR THE ABOVE **** DBX 4, DBX 3, or other COMPANDER (compressor-expander). This is a stereo sound processing box. Will also consider a peak limiter. POWER AMPLIFIER, stereo, at least 200 watts per channel, prefer MOSFET like products of David Hafler. COMPUTER STUFF, will not buy these, but will take in trade for things I am selling: any parts for Pentium style system, including VGA or SVGA monitor, color ink jet printer. PARTS FOR MY AUDIO AMPLIFIER: some very large capacitors, >50,000 Mfd, >125 WVDC / Transformer to build 105VDC 500Watt amplifier power supply (about 78 VAC RMS or 157 center-tap, over 6 Amps). CONVERSION of my 1/2" 9 Track big reel computer tapes to TR-3 or CD-ROM wanted. My 1/2" tapes are Unix Tar format. **** END OF LIST REPLY TO: c-bristol@usa.net I am a private party in Los Angeles, CA, USA. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 26 16:57:37 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: HP 150 II (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199709260544.WAA26260@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Sep 25, 97 10:44:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/fc31f27f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 26 17:06:33 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: <01IO3S97LVAI8X0IHI@delphi.com> from "Jason R. Brady" at Sep 26, 97 01:21:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1611 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/4d30c635/attachment.ksh From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Sep 26 18:53:34 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Goodwill Stuff Message-ID: <342C4AFE.5079@oboe.calpoly.edu> I was at the Goodwill today and came across a couple interesting finds. The problem is that I'm trying not to accumulate any more of this stuff. If someone is interested in one of these, maybe we can work it out. I am in Central CA so shipping is kind of a pain for me. I guess you could make me an offer then I'll see if I can get it, then we'll do a deal. I'd just like to make it worth my trouble. I didn't buy these so if you're interested, send me an offer I guess. I'll cruise over there tomorrow and see if they're still around. Hate to see them get tossed. Email me before 9 AM PDT tomorrow or I doubt if I'll get over there again until middle of next week. TI 99/4 Expansion Module. Big heavy sucker. Has a floppy in it and an interface cable. Osborne Executive portable, works, KB, 5" (or so) amber monitor. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Sep 25 22:23:12 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Where to see an Apple I (was:Re: Restoration questions.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> I've got an Apple-I that I'm going to take out of a box in the attic and >>try to set back up for showing/playing. > >Oooh. You have no idea what I would do just to see one of them, much less >what I would do to own one. :) The "Museum of American History" in Washington, DC has one. It is, or at least was on display in their computer exhibit (I left DC in '93 so info might be dated). I'm not sure the current state of the exhibit, but I'm pretty sure it's one of the permanent ones. It's definitely well worth seeing. Also the "Aerospace Museum" in DC (both are part of the Smithsonian) has/had a Cray I. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu Fri Sep 26 20:43:27 1997 From: jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: For Greg Mast In-Reply-To: <342C4AFE.5079@oboe.calpoly.edu> from "Greg Mast" at Sep 26, 97 04:53:34 pm Message-ID: <199709270143.UAA02456@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I hate posting to the group but you didn't include an email address. How much were they asking for the Expansion module? As I live near Chicago (100 miles east), I can't pay too much since shipping won't be cheap. John > > I was at the Goodwill today and came across a couple interesting finds. > The problem is that I'm trying not to accumulate any more of this stuff. > If someone is interested in one of these, maybe we can work it out. I am > in Central CA so shipping is kind of a pain for me. I guess you could > make me an offer then I'll see if I can get it, then we'll do a deal. > I'd just like to make it worth my trouble. > > I didn't buy these so if you're interested, send me an offer I guess. > I'll cruise over there tomorrow and see if they're still around. Hate to > see them get tossed. Email me before 9 AM PDT tomorrow or I doubt if > I'll get over there again until middle of next week. > > TI 99/4 Expansion Module. Big heavy sucker. Has a floppy in it and an > interface cable. > > Osborne Executive portable, works, KB, 5" (or so) amber monitor. > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From william at ans.net Fri Sep 26 20:49:24 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: <01IO3S95RYKM8X0IHI@delphi.com> Message-ID: > Ok, how about a 9511A or 9512 math co-processor chip (Intel 8231A or 8232)? > The Intel web site has info on the 8231A only. Jameco, JDR Microdevices, > and about 10 other catalogs make no mention of them. Most of the big "standard" catalogs will not have anything but much of the rather plain types. You may have to go to a real distributor to get some of the parts - of course being subject to massive delays and high prices. Are both of those chips even still in production? If not, that might be a real challenge. I remember trying to get one of AMD super neat database coprocessors, but really felt a great deal of resistance by the sales people and the distributors. One note: many sales offices are decent (Motorola), and will look up (and copy) data for long gone chips. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Sep 26 22:08:45 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11's, Peripherals, Docs, Unix, etc. for sale; L.A., CA. In-Reply-To: <199709262226.RAA14159@smtp.gte.net> from "c" at Sep 26, 97 03:25:13 pm Message-ID: <9709270208.AA19137@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 774 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/ef8ac804/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Fri Sep 26 21:17:34 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Fortunately they were not commonly used in old computers either. I think Sun > used them on some Sun 3 boards (I seem to remember them when I was > looking inside my 3/260), but that's about the commonest place. I did not see any on a 3/280 board, but then it could have been done by a different engineering team. > Oh, of course. Second-hand chips are more of a risk than second-hand > machines - the machines (and peripherals) can almost always be repaired > or used as a source of spares, but dead chips are useless. Second hand chips better be cheap, especially if they have "reject" stamped all over (yes, I have seen some people trying to sell stuff like that!). A guy I knew back in Illinois would go and raid the Rockwell/Collins surplus outlet and sell off the chips quite cheap ($1 for a tube of 128Kx8 RadHard EEPROMS - that tube cost Rockwell $24,000!). He would often have very bizarre chips (10G series GaAs, for example), many mil-spec. Many had dots on them. After a bit of research, it turned out that red dots meant dead chips, yellow dots meant cosmeticly flawed but electically OK chips (Rockwell is as picky as IBM), and no dot meant new surplus. > Be careful if you're buying tubes of PALs or OTP PROMs. Often they have > been programmed with code that's totally useless to you and of course > they can't be erased. EPROMs are less of a risk there. I never buy PALs unless I know the guy that is selling them. > I've never seen 24 pin ones. There were 16 pin ones pinned out like a > 4116 (but with the A7 line N/C), with multiplexed address lines and 22 > pin ones with non-multiplexed address lines. I have a row of the latter > in an HP1350 graphics unit. But almost all the ones you find are one or > other of those. Two pins too many - I meant 22 pins, on the odd 0.400 inch packages. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Sep 26 22:18:01 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Where to see an Apple I (was:Re: Restoration questions.) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 25, 97 07:23:12 pm Message-ID: <9709270218.AA25695@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970926/be668311/attachment.ksh From hdwarden at netins.net Fri Sep 26 22:40:45 1997 From: hdwarden at netins.net (hdwarden@netins.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <199709270341.WAA03768@worf.netins.net> In <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com>, on 09/26/97 at 08:06 AM, Kip Crosby said: >Why don't we take a leaf from CYHIST's playbook and start putting a flag >at the front of the Subject: (as I did above) to make it easier to sort? I understand that most list servers can do this automatically. I would also find this a useful feature. Sam, is this something that would be reasonable to implement? Harlan ------------------------------------------------------ Harlan Warden, near Van Cleve Iowa hdwarden@netins.net ------------------------------------------------------ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 27 00:01:03 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Apple III+ questions Message-ID: Hi, Got a Apple III+ yesterday, not sure if it works, haven't powered it up yet, it was such a mess that I'm working on cleaning it up first. I just cracked the case open and notice that it has three AA batteries in a battery holder between the floppy drive and the power supply. They're in front of where the cards go. Finding AA's strike me as more than a little odd! Is this a user modification? Also I've been lucky enough to get a Profile drive with it, and the controller card is in the computer. As I've said, I've not powered the system up yet, is there anything here I should be aware of. Does it boot off of the HD or just the floppy? I do have a boot floppy, but I've no idea if it's any good. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 27 00:26:20 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: DEC PDP-11's, Peripherals, Docs, Unix, etc. for sale; L.A., CA. In-Reply-To: <9709270208.AA19137@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199709262226.RAA14159@smtp.gte.net> from "c" at Sep 26, 97 03:25:13 pm Message-ID: >> FLOPPY DISK DRIVE, DSD, 2 8" floppies in 10" rack box, runs a=20 >> PDP-11, copy of DEC RX01, $95. Optional: RT-11 set, source, > ^^^^^^^ >> XXDP Diagnostics, on floppies > >If Mentec gets wind that you're selling the source to a still-supported >operating system like RT-11, you better get a lawyer - and a good one! Well he did say he was planning on leaving the country! :^) Actually he's been trying to sell this stuff for quite some time, I first saw this when I was doing a search on 19" racks and DejaNews pulled it up, I think that was in July. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 27 00:22:52 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion In-Reply-To: <199709270341.WAA03768@worf.netins.net> References: <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: >In <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com>, on 09/26/97 > at 08:06 AM, Kip Crosby said: > >>Why don't we take a leaf from CYHIST's playbook and start putting a flag >>at the front of the Subject: (as I did above) to make it easier to sort? > >I understand that most list servers can do this automatically. I would >also find this a useful feature. > >Sam, is this something that would be reasonable to implement? Can't most people simply set up a filter to dump all the messages into a mailbox specifically for the list? I wouldn't be able to cope with all the mail I get each day if it wasn't for this. I simply send everything "From" the mailing list to that box. Works great to keep the various mailing lists separate. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dastar at crl.com Sat Sep 27 00:21:10 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Goodwill Stuff In-Reply-To: <342C4AFE.5079@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Greg Mast wrote: > TI 99/4 Expansion Module. Big heavy sucker. Has a floppy in it and an > interface cable. Hey Greg, I'm interested in this. If no one else has jumped on it please grab it for me. How much is it? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From marvin at rain.org Sat Sep 27 00:31:49 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion References: <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <342C9A45.690E649D@rain.org> Zane H. Healy wrote: > >In <3.0.32.19970926080559.00e33630@pop.batnet.com>, on 09/26/97 > > at 08:06 AM, Kip Crosby said: > > > >>Why don't we take a leaf from CYHIST's playbook and start putting a flag > > >>at the front of the Subject: (as I did above) to make it easier to sort? > > Can't most people simply set up a filter to dump all the messages into a > mailbox specifically for the list? I wouldn't be able to cope with all > the I only average about 30 - 50 messages/day and it only takes minutes to look at them. My sort routine consists of read followed by a manual trash or classify ... or put the decision off :). At what point (as far as messages/day) does it make sense to use a filter to sort? From dastar at crl.com Sat Sep 27 00:33:00 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion In-Reply-To: <199709270341.WAA03768@worf.netins.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 hdwarden@netins.net wrote: > I understand that most list servers can do this automatically. I would > also find this a useful feature. > > Sam, is this something that would be reasonable to implement? Actually, Bill Whitson is the operator of this list-server. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Sat Sep 27 00:34:09 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Goodwill Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Greg Mast wrote: > > > TI 99/4 Expansion Module. Big heavy sucker. Has a floppy in it and an > > interface cable. > > Hey Greg, I'm interested in this. If no one else has jumped on it please > grab it for me. How much is it? Damn it. This is the second time I've done this in the last couple of days. Sorry about that. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From engine at chac.org Sat Sep 27 01:13:05 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970926231151.00f16560@pop.batnet.com> At 13:21 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, how about a 9511A or 9512 math co-processor chip (Intel 8231A or 8232)? >The Intel web site has info on the 8231A only.... I called a guy who was a logic designer at Intel during the period and who has samples of most of the pertinent Intel chips from, say, the 8048 to current. He has no 8232 and claims never to have seen one or a data sheet for it. It was so lackadaisically marketed by Intel that he suspects it was a cross-license from AMD and that someone at Intel objected to the architecture. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sat Sep 27 02:40:00 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 187 References: <199709270702.AAA04516@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <342CB850.73AF@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hey Sam, I told the last guy, they want $10, $10 for my pain + shipping (cheap for you, he was in Chicago). Get back to me ASAP! Greg Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:21:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Sam Ismail To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Goodwill Stuff Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Greg Mast wrote: > TI 99/4 Expansion Module. Big heavy sucker. Has a floppy in it and an > interface cable. Hey Greg, I'm interested in this. If no one else has jumped on it please grab it for me. How much is it? Thanks. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From manney at nwohio.com Sat Sep 27 07:38:17 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: FS: IBM 5100 & need Apple FDD Message-ID: <199709271244.FAA18542@mx5.u.washington.edu> $500 is the top offer so far. (that was more than I'd hoped to get). Manney -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Manney Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 1:16 PM Subject: Re: FS: IBM 5100 & need Apple FDD >On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, PG Manney wrote: > >> I have a complete IBM 5100 system available (CPU, external drives, printer, >> all documentation). Works fine, so far as I know. >> >> Unfortunately, the guy has some money into it, and wants some for it. >> >> It is in Northwestern Ohio. >> >> Offers? > >$100? > >> p.s. I need an Apple disk drive...anyone have one? Is any one out there an >> Apple expert and is interested in answering questions? If so, please e-mail >> me. > >Ask away. I grew up on Apple. I also have several disk drives >available, plus controller cards, and other stuff. What did you need? > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > > From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Sep 27 08:41:50 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Apple III+ questions Message-ID: <199709271340.IAA14960@sunflower.com> Okay, where to begin: I have several ///'s but no plus, so needless to say, im jealous:) The AA's are factory, they go to the clock circuit to retain the time, some later regular ///'s had this as well. {clone pc's use this method as well, like old DTK's} The profile drive is more tricky, I have one too and it works. It is not a bootable device, you need a "catalyst" disk, that's the disk that runs the card and initialized the drive. It has some kind of menu system you edit to bring up like a dosshell kinda of thing to select items, This I havent figured out yet, when I go into the "catalyst editor" i get a file now found. Mine came loaded and working. I have alot of original software and docs for the ///, but not the ///+, but if I know my history right, they ///+ was just basically the version that worked :) ---------- > From: Zane H. Healy > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple III+ questions > Date: Saturday, September 27, 1997 12:01 AM > > Hi, > Got a Apple III+ yesterday, not sure if it works, haven't powered it up > yet, it was such a mess that I'm working on cleaning it up first. > > I just cracked the case open and notice that it has three AA batteries in a > battery holder between the floppy drive and the power supply. They're in > front of where the cards go. Finding AA's strike me as more than a little > odd! Is this a user modification? > > Also I've been lucky enough to get a Profile drive with it, and the > controller card is in the computer. As I've said, I've not powered the > system up yet, is there anything here I should be aware of. Does it boot > off of the HD or just the floppy? I do have a boot floppy, but I've no > idea if it's any good. > > Zane > > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | > +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ > | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > From MicroAge97 at aol.com Sat Sep 27 09:11:37 1997 From: MicroAge97 at aol.com (MicroAge97@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Apple III+ questions Message-ID: <970927101136_1164477280@emout16.mail.aol.com> hello, My friend say the apple/// should be able to boot off the profile.... but he hasn't used one on an aplle ///, just lisa's. dave From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Sep 27 10:24:00 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Hoo, boy... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970927082400.00e82280@mail.wizards.net> Is it just me, or does anyone else on the list think this fellow's going to be owning the stuff he's plugging a -long- time at his prices? -=-=- -=-=- How can I add my name to receive this list? c-bristol@usa.net TABLE OF CONTENTS: 1. SOUND EQUIPMENT 2. COMPUTER ANTIQUES (CORE memory, etc.) 3. COMPUTER EQUIPMENT (IBM style; non-IBM style) 4. OFFICE EQUIPMENT and FURNITURE (Fireproof Cab) 5. MISC. (Tools, Elec.Test Equip.,Bikes,Backpack) 6. BUILDING MATERIALS and TOOLS 7. THINGS I WANT TO BUY / TRADE FOR -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From krh03 at csufresno.edu Sat Sep 27 01:14:45 1997 From: krh03 at csufresno.edu (Ken Harbit) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Nicolet 290 needs home Message-ID: <199709271535.IAA19110@lennon.csufresno.edu> Found this on alt.folklore.computers We have a working (or at least it was) Nicolet 290 computer. that need to vacate the room its been taking up for the last 20+ years. This system is rigged up as a test bench for an MRI system (that's all still there too) and we have all the manuals, disk packs, paper tape programs, banks of core memory etc etc.. I plan to do a small inventory of the parts and pieces but if I don't find it a home soon it'll get smashed up. Does anyone know anything about these computers? I have no idea what else they may have been used for or how rare this thing is. Anything anyone knows about it could be helpful towards finding it a proper home. BTW.. Size wise you're looking at a large console with a plotter built in and a short 19 inch rack plus many boxes of disk packs (Diablo) and manuals. Ken Montgomery CSU Sacramento kenm@csus.edu (Ken Montgomery) I've never heard of a Nicolet 290... What is it? Ken Harbit krh03@cvip.fresno.com From c-bristol at usa.net Sat Sep 27 12:15:55 1997 From: c-bristol at usa.net (c) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Prices (Re: DEC PDP-11's, Peripherals, Docs, Unix, etc. for sale; L.A.,CA.) Message-ID: <199709271717.MAA03766@smtp.gte.net> I'm sorry, I don't know what this stuff is worth. I bought my PDP-11 stuff when it was still worth something. I paid $5,000 for the 11/45, and $1,000 for the Emulex SC21/B1, to make a home Unix system in 1983. Just ignore my prices and make any offer. Did I hear an offer of $30 + shipping for the SC21/B1? ?? Buy the way, I already sold about 15 items (mostly stereo stuff) from this list at almost the prices I asked. So on the computer stuff, please ignore my prices, but try to pay me enough to crate it up if you are not able to pick it up in L.A. ---------- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: DEC PDP-11's, Peripherals, Docs, Unix, etc. for sale; L.A.,CA. Date: Friday, September 26, 1997 10:26 PM >> FLOPPY DISK DRIVE, DSD, 2 8" floppies in 10" rack box, runs a=20 >> PDP-11, copy of DEC RX01, $95. Optional: RT-11 set, source, > ^^^^^^^ >> XXDP Diagnostics, on floppies > >If Mentec gets wind that you're selling the source to a still-supported >operating system like RT-11, you better get a lawyer - and a good one! Well he did say he was planning on leaving the country! :^) Actually he's been trying to sell this stuff for quite some time, I first saw this when I was doing a search on 19" racks and DejaNews pulled it up, I think that was in July. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 27 12:43:19 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:08 2005 Subject: Spare Discrete Components? In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Sep 26, 97 10:17:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1887 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970927/f16791ed/attachment.ksh From engine at chac.org Sat Sep 27 12:09:33 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Nicolet 290 needs home Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970927095527.00f08870@pop.batnet.com> At 06:14 9/27/97 +0000, Ken Harbit wrote: >> We have a working (or at least it was) Nicolet 290 computer.... > Does anyone know anything about these computers? I have no idea what >else they may have been used for or how rare this thing is.... > >I've never heard of a Nicolet 290... What is it? I have a funny feeling it has something to do with http://www.nicimg.com , which is what you get if you stuff +"Nicolet" into AltaVista. And since they're in San Diego, this computer may be on my turf, oh joy. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Sat Sep 27 12:09:35 1997 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Apple III+ questions Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970927100435.00ef0390@pop.batnet.com> At 08:41 9/27/97 -0500, you wrote: >I have alot of original software and docs for the ///, but not the ///+, >but if I know my history right, they ///+ was just basically the version >that worked :) I'm researching that now, and, not quite. The original, buggy /// started shipping in September 1980. There was a revised, mostly fixed version also called the /// that was introduced in December 1981. The ///+ didn't appear till December 1983 and both models were discontinued in April 1984....so that's why most of us don't have a ///+. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From donm at cts.com Sat Sep 27 18:02:20 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Hoo, boy... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970927082400.00e82280@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Bruce Lane wrote: > Is it just me, or does anyone else on the list think this fellow's going > to be owning the stuff he's plugging a -long- time at his prices? No, it is not just you! Gee, on 8" diskettes alone I could get rich at his prices!!! He may sell something to ignorant 'professional' collectors, but I don't see many sales to anyone who really knows the gear. - don > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) > (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) > http://www.wizards.net/technoid > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own > human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 27 21:30:14 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface Message-ID: Hi All, Pardon my stupid question, I know nothing about Trash 80's. OK, the question of the day is what is this? It looks like you are supposed to plug a ribbon cable into the bottom, and connect it to a computer. I've been looking for TRS-80 stuff to add to my collection, so far I've only got a CoCo2, so when I saw this for $8 I grabbed it. It's got one 5 1/4" drive in it, and a spot to stick another. On the back is a plug for TV, and another for a monitor (they both look the same). Which TRS-80 was this for? Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From jruschme at exit109.com Sat Sep 27 19:42:11 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hi All, >Pardon my stupid question, I know nothing about Trash 80's. > >OK, the question of the day is what is this? It looks like you are >supposed to plug a ribbon cable into the bottom, and connect it to a >computer. I've been looking for TRS-80 stuff to add to my collection, so >far I've only got a CoCo2, so when I saw this for $8 I grabbed it. > >It's got one 5 1/4" drive in it, and a spot to stick another. On the back >is a plug for TV, and another for a monitor (they both look the same). >Which TRS-80 was this for? It's for the Models 100/102/200. From wpe at interserv.com Sat Sep 27 21:04:14 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: generic 386 motherboard and processor available... Message-ID: <342DBB1D.63CEB4D0@interserv.com> Someplace around here, I've got a 386 motherboard and processor, that replaced an old DEC 33 mhz unit.. No clue (off the top of my head) who made it.. Anybody want the thing? Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From starling at umr.edu Sun Sep 28 01:17:51 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 27, 97 06:30:14 pm Message-ID: <199709280617.BAA12923@saucer.cc.umr.edu> > It's got one 5 1/4" drive in it, and a spot to stick another. On the back > is a plug for TV, and another for a monitor (they both look the same). > Which TRS-80 was this for? It's for the TRS-80 Model 100. The M100 (or "Model-T") is the nifty laptop model that is still rather popular. It's nifty 'cause it runs for like 20 hours on 4 AA batteries. However, it lacks any sort of disk drive and has a 40 column by 8(?) line display. So the box you have adds the capability to save on a floppy and display on a monitor or TV. Plan on keeping it? starling@umr.edu From pcoad at crl.com Sun Sep 28 04:15:19 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: help with DG Nova 3 In-Reply-To: <199709271535.IAA19110@lennon.csufresno.edu> Message-ID: Being inspired by the likes of Carl Friend, Tim Shoppa, and others, Friday I joined "Club Nova". I now have a DG Nova 3 (CS/40). I will not say that it was a pleasure to move since the rack was full and weighed about 400 pounds (the other stuff was about 200 pounds)*. (In retrospect removing parts from the rack would have made it much easier.) A Brother-in-law with a truck is a gift from heaven. The machine is big, beautiful, and mine. I have not taken a complete inventory, but I know that the haul included: a disk unit which has a fixed disk and removable disk packs (CDC I think) about 10 packs a tape unit (Cipher 1600bpi) (with about 10 tapes), a printer, a terminal, 20 or so pieces of of documentation (mostly COBOL related) a small box of cables a few "extra" boards. (I'll try to put together a more exact list.) Unfortunately, while there are some sales and technical documents none of them cover the Nova 3**. There is a good deal of microNova technical and sales literature. The guy also had a microNova at some time in the past, I wonder if whoever has it now also has all of the Nova 3 docs. The machine has been sitting for the last 7 years and has not been powered up in that time, but (everyone sing along) it was working the last time it was run. Now for the questions: Does anyone have hardware (or any) documents on the Nova 3? What is the best way to the machine running again? I am a software guy, but I have a cheezy Radio Shack multimeter and know which end of a soldering iron is hot. Which parts are most likely to fail after sitting unused for long periods. Which parts are likely to get me killed our injured if I am not careful? Basically this is my first exposure to minis so everything will be and adventure. Any advice or information is welcome. Thanks, --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html Moving soon to a new location. *Things always weigh more than what people estimate, usually by 100%. Sellers always guess low and buyers always guess high. **Anyone notice that in many sales literature pictures for minis there are: 1-2 people sitting at terminals (usually smiling) 1 man in a suit looking at a piece of paper (usually fan-fold) 1 woman also looking at the paper I've seen this in both DEC and DG stuff. From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Sep 28 11:28:42 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Fellow needs a VAX: Anyone? Message-ID: <34338564.594673985@mail.wizards.net> Found this while poking around on Usenet. If someone would be kind enough to forward the author any info on VAXen that may need rescue, I'm sure he'd appreciate it. -=-=- -=-=- I am looking for a VAX system, any one will do, it will be basically used as a learning system for college students. Please contact me at ashwood@email.msn.com with any offers Joseph Ashwood ashwood@email.msn.com -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid -- kyrrin2-At-Wizards-Dot-Net "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 28 11:30:41 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: help with DG Nova 3 References: Message-ID: <342E8630.A0758039@rain.org> Paul E Coad wrote: > Being inspired by the likes of Carl Friend, Tim Shoppa, and others, > Friday I joined "Club Nova". I now have a DG Nova 3 (CS/40). I will > Which parts are most likely to fail after sitting unused for long periods. While *I* have never seen it happen, friends have told me that the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply can cause problems if they have been sitting for long periods of time. Some of them have put a variac on the unit and brought the voltage up slowly over a period of ???? but I seem to recall it was at least hours. Someone else on the list might have more info there. From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 28 11:36:07 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Good weekend References: <1.5.4.32.19691231180000.00682dfc@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <342E8776.D969AC13@rain.org> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Well Saturday made up for a slow week of finds. In that one day I was able > > to pick up and save the following: Commodore 1902 monitor, 2-Mac 128's one > > with KB & mouse, Platinum Mac Plus with KB & mouse, Apple IIgs with RGB Subject: Good weekend Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 -0500 From: "John R. Keys Jr." Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Well Saturday made up for a slow week of finds. In that one day I was able to pick up and save the following: Commodore 1902 monitor, 2-Mac 128's one Can you loan me your time machine and show me how to set it to about 1976? Notice the date of your message :). Nice finds! From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 28 11:40:34 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Copy II Option Board References: <342E8630.A0758039@rain.org> Message-ID: <342E8882.3F638F52@rain.org> I seem to recall someone looking for the Copy II Option Board. There is one for sale on ebay at: http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=614310 From dastar at crl.com Sun Sep 28 11:57:27 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: an interesting round-up Message-ID: Ok, here's some of what I arrested into the custody of my collection yesterday. A zero-emission Mac 512K. This is truly bizarre. Its a normal looking Mac 512K until you look closer and notice there is a second built-in floppy on the right-hand side, oriented vertically. The brightness knob is missing from the front and replaced with a little square that is the same color and texture as the rest of the case. It was moved to the back. The power cord is not detachable like on a normal Mac but is instead permanently attached. The external disk drive connector is gone, and so is the slot where you can insert a security cable; its covered over. Opening this thing is half-past a bitch and a quarter till a pain in the ass. I finally get it open by removing all the screws on the DB-9 connectors on the back and find a totally shielded interior. The disk drives and motherboard are encased in aluminum. The monitor has a gold foil pasted to its entire exterior. The video cable is shielded inside a heavy duty stranded shielding, as well as the cable going to the second disk drive. Even the DB-9 connectors have extra shielding around them. It was made by a company called Systematics General in Sterling, Virginia. Anyone know anything about these? I also collected several DEC boards I am assuming go to a PDP-11. Someone help me identify these: DEC M8045 - 32K 18 BIT MOS MEM (guess that one is pretty obvious) (note: I have two of these. On the board they have M8045 but on the front tab one says M8044 DF and the other M8044DB) M7949 M7957 - ASYN MUX M7551-CA - Definitely looks like a memory board M7136 - LPWR GS-2 (?) This one has a busted chip but upon close examination it looks like the IC is still intact with the spider-web fine wires still attached to the wafer. Half the silicon is missing but I can still see its an AMD chip. Looking at the front of the card with the edge connectors down, its on the bottom row of chips, third chip from the left. Looks like it starts with AMPALI5R?? Next row of numbers is 84H90 maybe? M8013 - RLV11 DISK CONTROL Can't find the part number on this next one but its clearly labelled RDRX DISK CONTROLLER. M7135 - ??? This one has five 24 pin chips with lots of gold with a big square chip next to them. A scrappers dream with all the gold on this sucker. USDC (this is what is stamped on the board). All I can see of this board is 10-1108-02, with the 02 being scrawled into a solder pad. Has an AMD 8418 and what looks to be a Fairchild MBL8086-2 (CPU?) on it. I only say Farichild because it has an F with a line above and below it. Also has a couple 64K EPROMS. Finally, it has a 50 pin connector on the top (don't know what its type is called but it looks like ::::::::::::::::::). These boards were sitting in a scrap bin and some are pretty scuffed up. I don't even know if they work. Some need some solder repair work. All are pretty much in tact. The only major damage is that one broken PAL. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 28 12:19:08 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: an interesting round-up References: Message-ID: <342E918C.C4CC7C00@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > Ok, here's some of what I arrested into the custody of my collection > yesterday. > > A zero-emission Mac 512K. This is truly bizarre. Its a normal looking > Mac > 512K until you look closer and notice there is a second built-in floppy > on the right-hand side, oriented vertically. The brightness knob is > missing from the front and replaced with a little square that is the same > color and texture as the rest of the case. It was moved to the back. > The power cord is not detachable like on a normal Mac but is instead > permanently attached. The external disk drive connector is gone, and so > is the slot where you can insert a security cable; its covered over. > Opening this thing is half-past a bitch and a quarter till a pain in the > ass. I finally get it open by removing all the screws on the DB-9 > connectors on the back and find a totally shielded interior. The disk > drives and motherboard are encased in aluminum. The monitor has a gold > foil pasted to its entire exterior. The video cable is shielded inside a > heavy duty stranded shielding, as well as the cable going to the second > disk drive. Even the DB-9 connectors have extra shielding around them. > It was made by a company called Systematics General in Sterling, > Virginia. Anyone know anything about these? It sounds like a tempest computer. While someone else on the listserver probably has more to say, as I recall they were designed to be able to run classified material with zero emmisions so the information couldn't be tapped from outside the machine. Nice find! From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 28 12:19:32 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: IC Chips References: <342E8630.A0758039@rain.org> Message-ID: <342E91A4.4826BF4C@rain.org> After the discussion about older chips, I kept my eyes open at TRW for things that might be interesting. I found a couple multi-bus stuff circa 1979 that looked interesting. The first is a Microcomputer Systems 16K RAM board with some MM5271D Ram chips of some sort (1K x 1?). The second is a Datacube SMK INc RM 117, 16K Dual Port Memory card with 88114E memory chips. I also found a Motorola microsystems MC68000 Educational Computer (board) Copyright 1981 that appears to be complete except for all the missing chips :). Anyone have any info on this? From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sun Sep 28 14:17:33 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Apple Stuff on AuctionWeb Message-ID: <342EAD4D.5720@oboe.calpoly.edu> I just listed some Apple parts on AuctionWeb. Also some old mac software and a RS Model 100. See the links below for more info and to bid. Bidding seems to be down overall so there are some good deals to be had. I just want to clear out this stuff. Also have a couple Apple IIGS computers not on the auction I need to sell if anyone is interested. Radio Shack Model 100 Laptop Computer (photo) Current bid: $70.38 Auction ends on: 09/28/97, 14:36:03 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=511656 Lot of OLD Mac Game Software (128/512/Plus) Current bid: $8.00 Auction ends on: 10/03/97, 22:39:08 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=646295 Lot 2 of OLD Mac Game Software (128/512/Plus) Current bid: $9.50 Auction ends on: 10/03/97, 22:47:11 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=646404 Lot 3 of OLD Mac Game/SW Disks (128/512/Plus) Current bid: $8.00 Auction ends on: 10/03/97, 23:27:50 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=646683 Apple Laserwriter II DC Power Supply Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 14:36:31 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=658085 Apple Imagewriter II CPU Board - New in Box Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 14:41:50 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=658185 Mac SE Main Logic Board FDHD Current bid: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 14:53:36 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=658461 Apple IIc Factory Replacement Floppy - New! Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 14:56:51 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=658535 Lot of Apple Service Parts, in Boxes! Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 15:09:16 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=658806 Apple IIc Main Logic Board - New in Box! Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 15:13:08 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=658909 Mac II Power Supply Bidding starts at: $1.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 15:17:14 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=659010 Apple Imagewriter II Printer Current bid: $3.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 17:52:19 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=663059 Apple IIC Computer (Photo) Current bid: $3.00 Auction ends on: 10/04/97, 17:55:49 PDT http://komodo.ebay2.com/aw-cgi/ItemISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=663175 Thanks for reading!.....Greg From william at ans.net Sun Sep 28 16:52:04 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: an interesting round-up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > A zero-emission Mac 512K. This is truly bizarre. I have seen lots of Tempest rated PCs, but never a Macintosh. I have also seen DEC VT-100 TEMPEST terminals - they look just like a VT-100 (except for the badge), but when you try to lift the thing, it is clear there is something extra inside. Take a look at the screen on the Mac - you may notice a fine mesh over it. > It was made by a company called Systematics General in Sterling, > Virginia. Anyone know anything about these? Virginia, you say? Hmmmmm... William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Sep 28 16:58:55 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: help with DG Nova 3 In-Reply-To: <342E8630.A0758039@rain.org> Message-ID: > While *I* have never seen it happen, friends have told me that the > electrolytic capacitors in the power supply can cause problems if they have > been sitting for long periods of time. Some of them have put a variac on > the unit and brought the voltage up slowly over a period of ???? but I seem > to recall it was at least hours. Someone else on the list might have more > info there. Yes, please remove the supplies from the load (the boards, etc.), and replace it with a suitable BIG power resistor to simulate a proper load (also known as a dummy load). If you do not have a variable transformer (Variac or otherwise), go ahead and turn the thing on - the Nova is not that ancient, so the caps probably have not degraded much. If you do have a transformer, ramp up the voltage from 0 over ten minutes or so. It really only needs it once. For truely ancient capacitors (no use for 15-20 years), it is probably best to ramp it up over a half hour or so thru a 240 v light bulb (current limitter). Most of use, however, never run into computer stuff that needs this extreme treatment - some radio stuff, however, does. William Donzelli william@ans.net From Eros at mail.dec.com Sun Sep 28 17:14:11 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: This weekend's haul Message-ID: I picked up a complete HP-86B system this weekend. System box, monitor, two dual floppy drives, printer, plotter, documentation, three shoeboxes full of Basic, CP/M and UCSD p-System software and a slew of expansion carts, including: (4) 128K RAM Memory Expansion (2) ROM Expansion w/ Assembler, Matrix, Printer, Plotter ROMS System Monitor Auxiliary Processor HPIB Interface CP/M System Voice Synthesizer Four-slot Extender Interface I'd written software for the HP-85 years ago and picked one up a few months back, so this is a veritable gold mine of Series 80 goodies. Two wannas: Does anyone have a spare Sun monitor that would work with a 3/80? About 10 days ago, I picked up a Lisa 2 with a ProFile drive, but no connector cable. Any leads on where I might snag a cable? -- Tony Eros ---------- From: John R. Keys Jr.[SMTP:jrkeys@concentric.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 7:00 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Good weekend Well Saturday made up for a slow week of finds. In that one day I was able to pick up and save the following: Commodore 1902 monitor, 2-Mac 128's one with KB & mouse, Platinum Mac Plus with KB & mouse, Apple IIgs with RGB monitor & ext 3.5 & 51/4 drives,Epson FX80 printer, 4-Kraft joysticks new in box, Applecolor Composite monitor, Mac numpad/trackball combo by Assimilation, SB midi kit, and BluePrint C64 cartridge. Also during the week picked up a Okidata OL400 laser for $5 and Radius Powerview $8 both from Goodwill. From Savers got a new in box Softstrip System Reader by Cauzin. That was my week for the most part other manuals and software that I got. I should have enough Mac's to fill the request I have from some of you by the end of next week. Keep computing! From starling at umr.edu Sun Sep 28 18:22:44 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: This weekend's haul In-Reply-To: from "Anthony Eros" at Sep 28, 97 06:14:11 pm Message-ID: <199709282322.SAA18446@saucer.cc.umr.edu> > About 10 days ago, I picked up a Lisa 2 with a ProFile > drive, but no connector cable. Any leads on where I might > snag a cable? Unless I'm terribly mistaken, the ProFile connector cable is just a straight pass-thru 25 pin cable, similar to an RS232 serial cable. I'll have to go home and look at mine, but I'm fairly sure you could just build or buy a similar cable. From wpe at interserv.com Sun Sep 28 18:46:07 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: 386 motherboard Message-ID: <342EEC3E.8037F93A@interserv.com> This has been tentatively adopted..... Will -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From sinasohn at crl.com Sun Sep 28 20:42:33 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970928184200.4f0f5a7a@mail.crl.com> At 10:31 PM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote: >I only average about 30 - 50 messages/day and it only takes minutes to look >at them. My sort routine consists of read followed by a manual trash or >classify ... or put the decision off :). At what point (as far as >messages/day) does it make sense to use a filter to sort? I get about 100-150 per day and haven't gotten around to installing Eudora Pro (which includes filtering) yet. Still, one of these days, I'll get around to it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From dastar at crl.com Sun Sep 28 21:35:40 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: A Request for Assistance Message-ID: Hello Fellow Classic Computer Collecting Nerds. If you've checked out the Vintage Computer Festival web page then you know that there will be an exhibition of over 100 computer systems as part of the event. Just having the computers without any accompanying literature would probably leave a lot of attendees wondering what it was they were looking at. Therefore, I would like to have a short, one-page write-up for each machine on display giving summary information about the machine. I figured there is probably no better resource for general and historical information on old computers than this discussion group. As you know, 100 computers is a lot. So I am asking for a favor from anyone interested. I need write-ups done for the machines which will be on display! Aside from my undying gratitude, anyone who contributes write-ups will receive a free Vintage Computer Festival 1.0 t-shirt and a free pass to the show either this year or for whatever year you will be able to make it out (this WILL be an annual event). A list of the systems on display will follow. If you would like to do some write-ups for a particular system or series of systems, please e-mail me and I will let you know if a write-up is required for that system. The write-up should ideally include: The company which created the computer The founding year of the company The year the company went out of business The founder(s) of the company What the company's main market was (ie. who was their customer?) The year the computer was developed/released How many were manufactured (if known) What computer (if any) preceded this computer What computer (if any) followed this computer What operating system(s) could it run? What language(s) if any were built-in or available for it? What kinds of peripherals were available for this computer What were the attributes of this computer What processor did it use? How many bits was it? How much memory did it come with standard? How much total memory could it be expanded to? What kind of bus architecture did it use (if any) or how could it be expanded (if at all)? Did it have a carthridge slot? What other computers was it compatible with (if any)? What peripherals were specifically available for it (if any)? Disk drives or other storage devices? Printers? Displays? Other stuff like speech synthesizers, graphics tablets, etc.? What (if any) graphics capabilities did it possess? What was the resolution (of all graphics modes)? How many colors were available? Any special features of the graphics? Any special graphics hardware? What (if any) sound capabilities did it possess? How many voices did it support? Any special features of the sound? Any special sound hardware? What other significant attributes did it feature? Again, it would be ideal to have all this information, but it is not mandatory. I realize that some stuff is just a mystery. Hopefully having Vintage Computer Festival's will clear up these mysteries by getting the information flowing about old computers. If you would like to contribute a write-up, please e-mail me with what you want to contribute and I will let you know if I need one for that system or not. Thanks! (list to follow below) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! MANUFACTURER PRODUCT MODEL ---------------------------- --------------------------- ------------ Altos Apple Computer Apple /// A3S2 Apple Computer Apple //c A2S4100 Apple Computer Apple IIe A2S2064 Apple Computer Apple IIe A2S2128 Apple Computer Apple ][ A2S0016 Apple Computer Apple ][+ A2S1048 Apple Computer Lisa 2 Apple Computer Macintosh Plus M0001A Atari Atari 1040ST 1040STF Atari Atari 1200XL Home Computer 1200XL Atari Atari 130XE 130XE Atari Atari 400 Home Computer 400 Atari Atari 520ST 520ST Atari Atari 600XL Home Computer 600XL Atari Atari 800 800 Atari Atari 800XL 800XL Atari Falcon 030 Callan Data Systems Unistar 300 Commodore Amiga A1000 Commodore Amiga A500 Commodore CBM 2001 Series PET 2001-32 Commodore Commodore 64 64 Commodore Commodore 64 Personal Compu 64C Commodore Commodore 128 128 Commodore Commodore Plus/4 Plus/4 Commodore PET 4016 Commodore PET 4032 Commodore PET 8032 Commodore VIC 20 Computer VIC 20 Compaq Portable CompuPro 8/16 Computer Power & Light Compal 80 Minicomputer Corona Data Systems M18P-2 Corvus Concept Cromemco Z2 Computer System Data General Data General One 2514A Epson Geneva PX-8 Epson Portable Computer HX-20 Exidy Inc. Sorcerer Computer Fortune Systems Corporation 32:16 Forward Technologies Sun 1 Clone GCE Vectrex Heath H8 Heath Hero I Hewlett-Packard Computer HP3000/37 Hewlett-Packard Computer HP85A Hewlett-Packard Computer HP86B Hewlett-Packard Portable HP110 Hewlett-Packard Portable Plus Hewlett-Packard Integral PC HP9000/207 Hewlett-Packard Workstation HP9000/520 Hewlett-Packard Computer HP9915 IBM 3270 Personal Computer 5271 IBM Personal Computer 5150 IMSAI Manufacturing Corporat IMSAI 8080 Microcomputer Sy Interact Micro Video Intertec Data Systems SuperBrain II Kaypro Corporation Kaypro New 2 Macintosh 128 Mattel Electronics Aquarius 5931 Mindset Mindset Morrow Designs MDT 60 Morrow Designs Pivot Portable Non-Linear Systems, Inc. Kaypro II North Star Computers Horizon OSI C4P MF Olivetti M10 Osborne Computer Corporation Executive Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 1 Osborne Computer Corporation Osborne 3 Osborne Computer Corporation Vixen PMC Inc. PMC 81 Processor Technology Corp. SOL 20 Quest Electronics Super Elf Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I Radio Shack TRS-80 Model III Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 Radio Shack TRS-80 64K Color Computer 2 26-3127B Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 26-3027 Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10 Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Computer Syste 26-1006-1 Radio Shack TRS-80 PC-1 SWP Microcomputer Products ATR8000 SWTP 6800 SWTP 6809 Sanyo MBC-550 MBC-550 Sinclair ZX80 ZX80 Sinclair ZX81 Personal Computer ZX81 Sun Microsystems Workstation 2/50 Synertek VIM-1 Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000 26-5103 Tandy Tandy 1000EX 25-1050B Tandy Tandy 100HX Personal Comput 25-1053A Televideo TS1603 Texas Instruments 99/4A Computer PHC004A Texas Instruments Silent 700 745 Portable Timex Computer Corporation Timex-Sinclair 1000 M 330 Timex Computer Corporation Timex-Sinclair 1500 Toshiba T1000 PA7027U Vector Graphics Inc. Vector 1 Victor Technologies, Inc. Victor 9000 412 Video Technology Ltd. Laser 50 Visual Computer Inc. Commuter COMMUTER US From PeterN at datacom.co.nz Sun Sep 28 21:04:11 1997 From: PeterN at datacom.co.nz (Peter Neild {DSLAK}) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Coming up for sale soon: Atari ST stuff + Northstar Message-ID: My Father-in-law has finally managed to convince his wife to part with the Atari ST they have. In the process, he'll be disposing a sizeable collection of Atari ST bits and pieces, plus a (as far as I know) a working North Star s-100 CPM box. The catch is that all of this stuff is in New Zealand... I do know he has the following: Atari 1040ST expanded internally to 4MB ICS SCSI interface w/ RTC in external cabinet w/ power supply and broken Syquest 44MB Removable drive Grey scale Hand scanner Video Recored based Backup system Calamus Desktop Publishing software Color monitor (working) Monochrome Monitor (working) Monochrome Monitor (not working) External Floppy Drive Atari 520ST (two of, one working definitely working) various other bits of software. North Star with terminal and 2 360kB FDD, 64Kb RAM (I think) I'll make a second posting once he has inventoried it all, and I'll give his e-mail address as well. I would have taken the stuff myself, but I already have a TRS-80 Model 1 clone sitting around doing very little (apart from taking up room)(and I intend to keep this - my project is to 1. Find Time to do something. 2. Upgrade the FDD interface to High Density. Add a SCSI interface, alter NEWDOS or LDOS to use it. Someday... The ICS SCSI interface lets you hook up just about any sized hard drive - I tried it with a 512MB SCSI drive so far, that seemed to work fine (it flew), but you could hook up a CD-ROM (I think) with the appropriate driver software (the ICS interface comes with a setup disk - I can't remember if that has the CD-ROM driver SW on it). The Atari 1040ST could do with the TOS 1.4(?) or 2.0 TOS upgrade. The 3MB RAM expansion is a little flakey (runs OK 99.99% of the time) Peter Nield, Network Administrator, Fletcher Challenge Limited mailto:petern@fcl.co.nz From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Sun Sep 28 22:59:56 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: HP 150 II and MS-DOS 3.2 (fwd) Message-ID: OK. Thanks to you guys, she was able to get the HP 150 II up and running but now needs a copy of DOS 3.2 which supposedly works with this machine. If anyone can help her out, again, please e-mail her! THANKS! LeS ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 01:49:52 -0700 From: Brigid Cumming To: more@camlaw.Rutgers.EDU Subject: MS-DOS 3.2 Thanks to help from your mail list, we've got the HP-150 II up & running. By dint of reading the manuals & the FAQ a kind classic computer buff directed us too, we've found we need MS-DOS 3.2 for the HP-150 II to really work. Right now it's running MS-DOS 2.11, the OS for the HP-150, but has a 20 MB hard drive. Do you have a copy of MS-DOS 3.2? Or could your mail list could suggest a source? Yours gratefully, Brigid & John Cumming bcumming@island.net From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Mon Sep 29 00:59:56 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Dead HP-97 calculator Message-ID: <342F43DC.E5AC248F@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> This weekend I acquired an HP-97 calculator dating from 1967! It includes a thermal printer and mag card reader. When I got it home I found that it rattled, so I dismantled it and found two large burnt out resistors on the keyboard PCB. The rattle was caused by pieces of these resistors in the case. Does anyone have docs sufficient to determine the replacement parts for these resistors? What is the power input requirements for the HP-97? Regards, Hans B Pufal Comprehensive Computer Catalogue From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Mon Sep 29 01:13:21 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Laser? Message-ID: <01IO73BEU04Y8Y5WCY@AC.GRIN.EDU> I knew that Laser made Apple ][ clones - I've seen a few in thrift stores, but never bought one. But a friend of mine just appeared with a Laser 286/2 - it's definitely the same logo. Did they make other PC clones? He's from Toronto - did they sell their PC clones in the US as well? Thanks, -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Sep 29 05:36:38 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Laser? Message-ID: >I knew that Laser made Apple ][ clones - I've seen a few in thrift stores, >but never bought one. But a friend of mine just appeared with a Laser 286/2 - >it's definitely the same logo. Did they make other PC clones? He's from >Toronto - did they sell their PC clones in the US as well? I don't know if it is the same company or not, but Laser PC's are very common in Australia - although the 286's which I knew tended to have problems with their hard drives. There are also PC/XT's, and 386's. There were also a couple of Laser laptop/palmtops, along the lines of the Tandy 100 and Amstrad NC-100. They show up on the second hand market all the time, and I keep meaning to pick up a couple. Adam. From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Sep 29 08:28:55 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Laser? Message-ID: <199709291327.IAA07116@sunflower.com> Yes it is the one and the same company, in my younger days, I sold computers at Sears, who carried the Laser line. They sold both PC and Apple][ compatables. ---------- > From: Adam Jenkins > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Laser? > Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 5:36 AM > > >I knew that Laser made Apple ][ clones - I've seen a few in thrift stores, > >but never bought one. But a friend of mine just appeared with a Laser 286/2 - > >it's definitely the same logo. Did they make other PC clones? He's from > >Toronto - did they sell their PC clones in the US as well? > > I don't know if it is the same company or not, but Laser PC's are very > common in Australia - although the 286's which I knew tended to have > problems with their hard drives. There are also PC/XT's, and 386's. There > were also a couple of Laser laptop/palmtops, along the lines of the Tandy > 100 and Amstrad NC-100. They show up on the second hand market all the > time, and I keep meaning to pick up a couple. > > Adam. > From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Mon Sep 29 08:31:16 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: A Request for Assistance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam: I will do the write-ups for the following computers: 1) TRS-80 Model 1 & 3 2) V-Tech's Laser 50. Let me know more info., CORD COSLOR p.s. sure you don't want to sell me that Laser 50? //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Sep 29 10:00:21 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: A Request for Assistance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970929110021.009793b0@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Sam Ismail said: >Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100 >Radio Shack TRS-80 64K Color Computer 2 26-3127B >Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer 2 26-3027 >Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10 >Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Computer Syste 26-1006-1 I'm very knowledgeable with these machines -- tho I may not have all the info you require. If you get a chance, think you could find a Tandy 200 and/or a Tandy 600 [[ The 600 is historically significant as it was the first laptop with an internal floppy drive ]] ??? Also, if you need write-ups for the TRS-80 CoCo 1 and 3, let me know as I can do those as well. Thanks, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Mon Sep 29 10:21:37 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Laser? Message-ID: <01IO7MH5SH8Y8Y65WX@AC.GRIN.EDU> > I don't know if it is the same company or not, but Laser PC's are very > common in Australia - although the 286's which I knew tended to have > problems with their hard drives. This one sure does - it seems to have ritually destroyed its FAT. > There are also PC/XT's, and 386's. There > were also a couple of Laser laptop/palmtops, along the lines of the Tandy > 100 and Amstrad NC-100. They show up on the second hand market all the > time, and I keep meaning to pick up a couple. Very neat. I'd love to see a scan of one of these. Does anybody know of a source? Thanks for the info, -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From rcini at classic.msn.com Mon Sep 29 12:06:28 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Apple II hard drive?? Message-ID: What's the best solution for attaching some form of mass-storage to an Apple II+? Rich Cini/WUGNET From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Sep 29 12:28:47 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Apple II hard drive?? Message-ID: <199709291731.MAA20812@sunflower.com> go scsi, www.allelec.com I have a 100meg scsi on my GS ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Apple II hard drive?? > Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 12:06 PM > > > What's the best solution for attaching some form of mass-storage to an Apple > II+? > > > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 29 13:36:14 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: A Request for Assistance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > I will do the write-ups for the following computers: > > 1) TRS-80 Model 1 & 3 > 2) V-Tech's Laser 50. Thank you very much, Cord! As soon as you can get those written up the better. > p.s. sure you don't want to sell me that Laser 50? I'll give Bill Whitson one last chance and if he doesn't bite then its yours. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 29 13:56:28 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: CC> Electronic versions of DDJ Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can score digital versions of Dr. Dobbs Journal all the way back to the first issue? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Mon Sep 29 13:59:22 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Apple II hard drive?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Sep 1997, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > What's the best solution for attaching some form of mass-storage to an Apple > II+? Find a Sider hard drive and Xebec controller and you're set. That's the best hard drive I know for the Apple that had excellent support for DOS 3.3 and ProDOS. I got mine in 1988 from someone who bought it in 1983 and it STILL WORKS GREAT! But they're not the easiest thing to find. Your next best bet is to hook it to a PC via serial ports and use a terminal program to upload and download stuff to/from your peecee. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From jrbrady at delphi.com Mon Sep 29 15:10:29 1997 From: jrbrady at delphi.com (Jason R. Brady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Intel 8231A & 8232 Math Co-processor Chips Message-ID: <01IO7YQA3UMA8X1Q5O@delphi.com> On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 23:13:05, Kip Crosby wrote: >I called a guy who was a logic designer at Intel during the period and who >has samples of most of the pertinent Intel chips from, say, the 8048 to >current. He has no 8232 and claims never to have seen one or a data sheet >for it. It was so lackadaisically marketed by Intel that he suspects it >was a cross-license from AMD and that someone at Intel objected to the >architecture. I called Intel Customer Service directly - they have no information on this chip in their database. On Fri, 26 Sep 1997 21:49:24, William Donzelli wrote: >Are both of those chips even still in production? If not, that might be a >real challenge. I remember trying to get one of AMD super neat database >coprocessors, but really felt a great deal of resistance by the sales >people and the distributors. > >One note: many sales offices are decent (Motorola), and will look up (and >copy) data for long gone chips. According to Intel, the 8231A was discontinued in 1996. They mentioned Rochester Electronics as a possible second-source. I accessed Rochester's web site but was unable to locate any reference using their search feature. Obtaining one of these chips is a nice-to-have, not critical, so I'll probably let this die for now. But thank you, gentlemen, for your assistance! Regards, Jason Brady jrbrady@delphi.com Seattle, WA From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 29 15:59:58 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: CC> Electronic versions of DDJ References: Message-ID: <343016CE.C209DCA7@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > Does anyone know where I can score digital versions of Dr. Dobbs Journal > all the way back to the first issue? No. However Computer Select (Computer Library) had the full text version of Dr. Dobbs in at least the Nov 1991 and abstracts in the January 1989 Inaugural Disc (which covered 1988). From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Sep 29 17:58:56 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Intel 8231A & 8232 Math Co-processor Chips Message-ID: <199709292258.AA18789@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199709300445.AAA05972@smtp.interlog.com> > > What's the best solution for attaching some form of mass-storage to an Apple > II+? > Altho the extremely knowledgeable people on this list will undoubtably have answers for you, you might also check out comp.sys.apple2. ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Sep 29 19:49:43 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: CC> Management suggestion In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970928184200.4f0f5a7a@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: <199709300445.AAA05998@smtp.interlog.com> > At 10:31 PM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote: > >I only average about 30 - 50 messages/day and it only takes minutes to look > >at them. My sort routine consists of read followed by a manual trash or > >classify ... or put the decision off :). At what point (as far as > >messages/day) does it make sense to use a filter to sort? > > I get about 100-150 per day and haven't gotten around to installing Eudora > Pro (which includes filtering) yet. Still, one of these days, I'll get > around to it. > Try Pegasus, its loaded with features, includibg filtering, and it's freeware. My favorite Inet app. ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Sep 29 19:49:50 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Coming up for sale soon: Atari ST stuff + Northstar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199709300446.AAA06031@smtp.interlog.com> > My Father-in-law has finally managed to convince his wife to part with > the Atari ST they have. In the process, he'll be disposing a sizeable > collection of Atari ST bits and pieces, plus a (as far as I know) a > working North Star s-100 CPM box. > > The catch is that all of this stuff is in New Zealand... > > I do know he has the following: > Atari 1040ST expanded internally to 4MB > ICS SCSI interface w/ RTC in external cabinet w/ power supply and broken > Syquest 44MB Removable drive > Grey scale Hand scanner > Video Recored based Backup system > Calamus Desktop Publishing software > Color monitor (working) > Monochrome Monitor (working) > Monochrome Monitor (not working) > External Floppy Drive > Atari 520ST (two of, one working definitely working) > various other bits of software. > SNIP > The ICS SCSI interface lets you hook up just about any sized hard drive > - I tried it with a 512MB SCSI drive so far, that seemed to work fine > (it flew), but you could hook up a CD-ROM (I think) with the appropriate > driver software (the ICS interface comes with a setup disk - I can't > remember if that has the CD-ROM driver SW on it). The Atari 1040ST > could do with the TOS 1.4(?) or 2.0 TOS upgrade. The 3MB RAM expansion > is a little flakey (runs OK 99.99% of the time) > Thats likely an ICD interface whtch allows the 7 device SCSI chain. The preferred CD-ROM software is Extendos. An option to get around the hardware upgrade is a German program called Magic which is also available for Mac and Dos which subs it's own version of TOS. ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Tue Sep 30 06:44:26 1997 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: CC> Electronic versions of DDJ References: Message-ID: <3430E61A.10F9@xlisper.mv.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > > Does anyone know where I can score digital versions of Dr. Dobbs Journal > all the way back to the first issue? > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! I don't think electronic copies exist back to the beginning but you should probably ask Jon Erickson, the editor, directly. He is jon@ddj.com. Some electronic copy can be found at www.ddj.com. -- David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz@aol.com (603) 472-2389 From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 30 06:03:43 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: FS: TRS-80's Message-ID: <199709301153.EAA15490@mx4.u.washington.edu> A Customer has (4) TRS-80 model 4. All have seen office use, and are not pristine. Some software, WP and database apps. Any interest? manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 30 06:09:00 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: generic 386 motherboard and processor available... Message-ID: <199709301153.EAA07871@mx2.u.washington.edu> Sure. How much do you want? (uh...is it over 10 yrs old? This is *classic* computers, remember!) Is it an SX or DX? What MHz? Any RAM? manney@nwohio.com >Someplace around here, I've got a 386 motherboard and processor, that >replaced an >old DEC 33 mhz unit.. No clue (off the top of my head) who made it.. >Anybody want >the thing? From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 30 06:05:08 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: FS: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <199709301153.EAA24074@mx3.u.washington.edu> Thanks to all who showed interest in the 5100... it looks as if the deal is struck. manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.com Tue Sep 30 06:27:49 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Laser? Message-ID: <199709301153.EAA08314@mx5.u.washington.edu> >I knew that Laser made Apple ][ clones - I've seen a few in thrift stores, >but never bought one. But a friend of mine just appeared with a Laser 286/2 - >it's definitely the same logo. Did they make other PC clones? He's from >Toronto - did they sell their PC clones in the US as well? Yes. I have a Laser XT clone (slightly peculiar data cables and -- IIRC -- nonstandard motherboard switch, but a nice, fast "turbo" (8 MHz) XT. Very well built. The keyboard is XT/AT switchable, so I still use it. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Sep 30 07:39:35 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: Laser? Message-ID: <970930083933_171634470@emout11.mail.aol.com> I've had several laser machines, which seemed to be of decent quality. in fact, my first computer was a laser 386sxe bought back in 1989 for $800 and still works today. it has a nonstandard power supply, but I found one for sale 3 years ago for $4 which i'm keeping for a spare. I also had the laser xtsl, which was a small 10mhz xt with dual 720k floppy drives. I wish I still had that one. Nowadays, I just have two laser 128 models and two external drives made by them, one for the laser/2c, and one that works on the disk ][ controller. I believe they also made pc compatibles in an apple //c -like form factor. david In a message dated 97-09-30 03:32:27 EDT, J Keys put forth: << Yes they made PC clones as well as Apples, they also made ext drives for PC's, Apples and Commodores. At 01:13 AM 9/29/97 -0500, you wrote: >I knew that Laser made Apple ][ clones - I've seen a few in thrift stores, >but never bought one. But a friend of mine just appeared with a Laser 286/2 - >it's definitely the same logo. Did they make other PC clones? He's from >Toronto - did they sell their PC clones in the US as well? > >Thanks, >> From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Sep 30 07:40:11 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: IBM System/34 available for collection. Free to a good home. Message-ID: At the place where I keep my 11/44, the owner has an IBM System/34. It's a largish beige brick. Chances are good I'll never get it (Can't store it), and it can't be left there. All the owner (Murrel) wants is to avoid paying to have it removed. I thought he wanted money for it, but he doesn't. It has all sorts of disks & stuff, and I think it's running (Not sure how to start it, so I can't check.) Tell me how and I may be able to. It runs RPG-II. It takes 8" floppies. I know it powers on, that's about all I know. From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Sep 30 07:43:51 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:09 2005 Subject: IBM System/34 available for collection. Free to a good home. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970930084351.00a10a10@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Daniel A. Seagraves said: >At the place where I keep my 11/44, the owner has an IBM System/34. It's >a largish beige brick. Chances are good I'll never get it (Can't store >it), and it can't be left there. All the owner (Murrel) wants is to avoid >paying to have it removed. I thought he wanted money for it, but he >doesn't. It has all sorts of disks & stuff, and I think it's running (Not >sure how to start it, so I can't check.) Tell me how and I may be able >to. It runs RPG-II. It takes 8" floppies. I know it powers on, that's >about all I know. Well, can't help you with the operating info, but where's it located? I have a largish (very dry) basement which would house it nicely, but Californee's a bit out of my way. Northern Wisconsin or Northern Michigan perhaps... Thanks, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Sep 30 00:25:53 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Altair 8800] Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970929222553.0087cd90@agora.rdrop.com> >From: Eric Chomko >Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers >Subject: Re: Altair 8800 >Date: 19 Sep 1997 03:47:25 GMT > >Tim Shoppa wrote: >: In article <341776C1.426ED8F0@odyssee.net>, DAN wrote: >: >Once someone loaded the Micro-Soft Basic into the Altair via switches, >: >paper tape or disk, how did they enter the program? Also through paper >: >tape or did they have a keyboard to write a simple program? > >: Typically they had a Teletype or some other sort of terminal to >: run Basic on. Often, the paper tape reader was part of the teletype. > >TTYs and Altair did not mix. Their 20 milliamp current loop interface was >for shit if I remember correctly. If theyever had one. Can an Altair owner >with a TTY make me a liar? Um, yes. (having a few Altairs and TTYs which I still run) The Altair (MITS) serial cards and 20mil TTYs got along just fine, once you resolved one minor issue. The 20mil drivers on the MITS cards were fine, with the exception that they *did not source the receive (keyboard) loop* ! This was not properly documented anywhere, and caused many a person endless grief trying to get it to run... It would appear that MITS was not the first to approach the issue in this manner (so who knew just what voltage you needed to run??? considering line length and all) since the problem was easily (once you knew the secret) resolved by installing one jumper *in the TTY* which existed for just such a purpose (and was documented in the Teletype manuals). -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Sep 30 08:03:06 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: IBM System/34 available for collection. Free to a good home. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970930084351.00a10a10@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Well, can't help you with the operating info, but where's it located? I > have a largish (very dry) basement which would house it nicely, but > Californee's a bit out of my way. Northern Wisconsin or Northern Michigan > perhaps... > Oh! It's in Peoria, Illinois. From thedm at sunflower.com Tue Sep 30 08:23:07 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Apple II hard drive?? Message-ID: <199709301324.IAA22578@sunflower.com> GS/OS 6.01 you have to have a ROM01 motherboard and you can't make your partitions larger than 32megs each, thats the max for prodos. I made four 25meg partitions. Use one for system and apps. one for games, one for testing and one for downloads/temp etc ---------- > From: John R. Keys Jr. > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apple II hard drive?? > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 6:00 PM > > What OS version are you running, I could not get a 80 meg drive to work on > the GS using Apple brand SCSI card. > At 12:28 PM 9/29/97 -0500, you wrote: > >go scsi, www.allelec.com I have a 100meg scsi on my GS > > > >---------- > >> From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. > >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > >> Subject: Apple II hard drive?? > >> Date: Monday, September 29, 1997 12:06 PM > >> > >> > >> What's the best solution for attaching some form of mass-storage to an > >Apple > >> II+? > >> > >> > >> > >> Rich Cini/WUGNET > >> > > > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Sep 30 10:39:52 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: [Fwd: North Star Horizons For Sale] In-Reply-To: <34311698.37BE@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: A possible opportunity for someone... See attached message -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:09:09 GMT From: Mike Stute Newsgroups: comp.sys.northstar, dfw.forsale Subject: North Star Horizons For Sale I have 2 North Star Horizons and an Imsai 8080 that need a new home. I'm in the Dallas area. Make Offer. Mike (972) 242-1271 From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Sep 30 17:27:35 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: F100K Message-ID: <9708308756.AA875666053@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Several days ago, William Donzelli wrote: > Was any machine (most likely mainframe class) ever built using F100K ECL > (the super fast stuff - even today)? The family is small but well thought > out, and includes some rather bizarre functions. When I went to Munich to visit my German pen friend 4+/-1 years ago, the Technical University of Munich had just thrown one out. It was made by Control Data Corp., and had a model number like 220 or something. Bernhard was then a student there, and got some bits as souvenirs. I did some swapping and ended up with 4M 18-bit words of 40 and 45 ns static RAM for possible use in one of my systems (I haven't yet!) and, as a museum piece, a card from the CPU. This CPU card was covered on one side in surface mounted 100000 series ECL, which I believe is the same as F100K. The other side of the card had a thin layer of insulator and a thick layer of steel - presumably to interface thermally to a cooling system. Philip. From william at ans.net Tue Sep 30 12:37:00 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: F100K In-Reply-To: <9708308756.AA875666053@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > This CPU card was covered on one side in surface mounted 100000 series > ECL, which I believe is the same as F100K. Yes it is the same. There was (is?) a newer, faster family called 100E, the ECLipS family by Motorola. I think it died out with F100K. > The other side of the card > had a thin layer of insulator and a thick layer of steel - presumably to > interface thermally to a cooling system. That sound similar to the system incorporated into many earlier Cray machines, except that the Crays used a copper sheet. William Donzelli william@ans.net From lddgibson at erols.com Tue Sep 30 14:20:05 1997 From: lddgibson at erols.com (leah gibson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: Advanced Integration Research Motherboard Message-ID: <343150E5.32BF@erols.com> I have a 486lc motherboard and need to know about any of the settings (i.e. jumpers and dip switch) and what the memory config is. thanks From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Sep 30 18:46:06 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation Message-ID: <970930194425_-261840337@emout12.mail.aol.com> I've started collecting old IBM machines, (brand loyalty) and today came across a machine called an IBM powerstation 550e. it looks very much like an apple /// except it has two floppy drives, a db9, rj11,.and 3 db25 ports on the back. i havent powered it up yet as i'm still trying to figure out how to open it. I'm off work this week, so I cant ask any of the old IBMers what this is. anyone know? david From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Sep 30 19:07:54 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB2065CDFCF@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Well, the physical description sounds a bit odd, but from the model number I believe you've got one of the early, pre-PowerPC RS/6000 RISC boxes. Hope it came with a keyboard... although they have standard-looking PS/2-style keyboard connectors, the RS/6000 boxes require a specific keyboard that looks kind of like a PC/3270 keyboard, with a built-in speaker. I've been looking for a keyboard for a friend of mine's machine for quite a while. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [SMTP:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 1997 4:46 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation > > I've started collecting old IBM machines, (brand loyalty) and today > came > across a machine called an IBM powerstation 550e. it looks very much > like an > apple /// except it has two floppy drives, a db9, rj11,.and 3 db25 > ports on > the back. i havent powered it up yet as i'm still trying to figure out > how to > open it. I'm off work this week, so I cant ask any of the old IBMers > what > this is. anyone know? > > david From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 30 18:57:25 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation In-Reply-To: <970930194425_-261840337@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 1997 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I've started collecting old IBM machines, (brand loyalty) and today came > across a machine called an IBM powerstation 550e. it looks very much like an > apple /// except it has two floppy drives, a db9, rj11,.and 3 db25 ports on > the back. i havent powered it up yet as i'm still trying to figure out how to > open it. I'm off work this week, so I cant ask any of the old IBMers what > this is. anyone know? Looks like an Apple ///? Very neat. When you find out what it is let me (us) know. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at crl.com Tue Sep 30 18:59:04 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: CC> AT&T terminal Message-ID: I've seen two interesting AT&T terminals lately. Both of them are the same. The screen is rather larger and squarish (about 10" both dimensions). The most interesting thing is it has what seems to be a carthridge slot on the side. There is a long white flap on the base unit that pushes in to reveal an card socket. Anyone have any ideas what the slot is for? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Attend the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Tue Sep 30 20:14:42 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation In-Reply-To: <970930194425_-261840337@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: > I've started collecting old IBM machines, (brand loyalty) and today came > across a machine called an IBM powerstation 550e. it looks very much like an > apple /// except it has two floppy drives, a db9, rj11,.and 3 db25 ports on > the back. i havent powered it up yet as i'm still trying to figure out how to > open it. I'm off work this week, so I cant ask any of the old IBMers what > this is. anyone know? It is probably an older RS/6000 - however, I have never heard of a 550e (then again, IBM makes a lot of weird stuff). The 500 series RS/6000s are largish deskside towers. The desktop machines are the 200 and 300 series. Open the thing up! If it is an old RS/6000, it will have a processor board with eight or so big nasty looking chips - the Power RISC processor. The only thing that may give you trouble is that the key (if it has one) must be in the service position to get the cover off. The RS/6000s really are nice machines, even oldies like the 320s and 930s. William Donzelli william@ans.net From wpe at interserv.com Tue Sep 30 20:24:16 1997 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: generic 386 motherboard and processor available... References: <199709301153.EAA07871@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3431A640.844F2FE3@interserv.com> Sorry, it got tentatively "adopted" 10 minutes or less, after I posted it's availability.. If the claimant (Allison) doesn't take it. I'll re-post.... Will PG Manney wrote: > Sure. How much do you want? (uh...is it over 10 yrs old? This is > *classic* > computers, remember!) > > Is it an SX or DX? What MHz? Any RAM? > > manney@nwohio.com > > >Someplace around here, I've got a 386 motherboard and processor, that > > >replaced an > >old DEC 33 mhz unit.. No clue (off the top of my head) who made it.. > >Anybody want > >the thing? -- Sorry to have to resort to this, but, due to the myriad of automatic e-mail advertising ("SPAMming") programs out there, I've been forced to modify my "reply to" address. To reply to this message, you must remove the .spamfree from the reply-to address. To those friends, and folks who are trying to contact me with info that I will likely be happy to receive, I apologze for this inconvienence. To those out there, sending all these annoying "junk mail" messages, I say "Oh well...." Will From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Sep 30 21:06:07 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:30:10 2005 Subject: what is this? IBM powerstation Message-ID: <970930214456_1798905966@emout05.mail.aol.com> concerning this powerstation, i doubt its a risc machine; i have an IBM PC RT which i will post about later, and that is entirely different from this box. i cannot see the main board because of the two floppy drives which are tilted up. there is 4 card slots, but they're not ISA. they look like long continuous ISA slots, about 6-7 inches long with a disk controller installed. the machine "posts" but i've no floppy and no video (yet) this machine also didnt have a key. just some latches which were pulled and the top came off. In a message dated 97-09-30 21:16:02 EDT, you write: << It is probably an older RS/6000 - however, I have never heard of a 550e (then again, IBM makes a lot of weird stuff). The 500 series RS/6000s are largish deskside towers. The desktop machines are the 200 and 300 series. Open the thing up! If it is an old RS/6000, it will have a processor board with eight or so big nasty looking chips - the Power RISC processor. The only thing that may give you trouble is that the key (if it has one) must be in the service position to get the cover off. >>