From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Thu Mar 13 18:37:21 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: You all should have heard from me already - but let me say once again - Welcome to the list. We've got around 50 subscribers at the moment which is far better than I thought we'd get for weeks. Couple things: 1. I'll be setting up the classiccmp web site this weekend. If you have any ideas for what should be there let me know. Currently, I'm planning on putting together a list of all computers that meet the "classic" criteria, copies of the various old computers FAQs, and hopefully some .PDF (acrobat reader) files of articles from old computer rags. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to maintain a list of resources but I know of relatively few. 2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). -Bill From josh at netins.net Thu Mar 13 19:37:21 1997 From: josh at netins.net (Josh M. Nutzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <199703140131.TAA06004@ins6.netins.net> I collect old Tandy's, including M102's & WP-2's (not the PCs), old AT&T Unix stuff, old Calculators (HP, etc.) Let me know if anybody finds anything! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 13 20:26:09 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970313182609.006cca2c@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:37 PM 3/13/97 -0800, you wrote: > >2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If >any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always >hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). Oh, don't ask questions like that! Especially when I'm working on preparations for a large public exhibit in the fall. My want list: (this week) Early Apple Macintosh gear (yeah, a LISA would be cool too!) Some Sinclair stuff (ZX-81/Timex series) PDP-8 ("straight" 8) Anything MITS IMSAI floppy disk sub-system (at least drive chassis) Anything S-100 Commodore PET ...??? ummm... gonna have to go back and look at the list on my OWN web page! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 13 10:46:51 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >At 04:37 PM 3/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >>2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If >>any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always >>hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). >Oh, don't ask questions like that! Especially when I'm working on >preparations for a large public exhibit in the fall. >My want list: (this week) >Early Apple Macintosh gear (yeah, a LISA would be cool too!) >Some Sinclair stuff (ZX-81/Timex series) >PDP-8 ("straight" 8) >Anything MITS >IMSAI floppy disk sub-system (at least drive chassis) >Anything S-100 >Commodore PET >...??? >ummm... gonna have to go back and look at the list on my OWN web page! B^} >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 I'm afraid it looks like you sent me a reply intended for someone else! On the topic of Timex-Sinclair/Sinclair ZX-81 though, I'm awaiting the arrival of a Sinclair ZX-81, with 16k RAM expansion and a number of tapes of programs, to go along with the boxed Timex-Sinclair 1000 I currently own. Unfortunately, it appears my T/S-1000 has ceased to function. Take care. Jeff -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 14 00:20:49 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <199703140725.BAA14156@ds9.comland.com> Hello All, I am mainly interested in Atari 8bits, but have found that I enjoy using just about any classic type computer. If anyone has or needs atari information, let me know. I still have my 800 running. In fact, my kids are growing up on the exact same games that honed my skills, and keep me from being uncoordinated and walking into walls today. I know they enjoy them just as much as I still do. I am looking forward to watching my grandkids play choplifter on my original 800. Well, enough about me.... Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 14 01:33:01 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <19970314073546835.AAA123@computer-name> > I'm afraid it looks like you sent me a reply intended for someone else! On I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on the list? Is that right? What I would like is Photofact schematics for Atari computer hardware. I have some, but I know I will be needing them when I finish my electronics class. I have a Timex Sinclair stashed in my closet, with a box of tapes. I also have something that is very similar to it, but I don't know much about it. When I dig through my closet, I will report what I find, assuming anyone is interested. From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 13 16:57:06 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on >the list? Is that right? That is what it appears to be doing. I felt kind of silly after I stopped and thought about it once I had posted that reply! BTW, does anyone know of a good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various 2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way of removing the markings. >What I would like is Photofact schematics for Atari computer hardware. I >have some, but I know I will be needing them when I finish my electronics >class. I've never run across these. Were they something generally available when the Atari's were popular? >I have a Timex Sinclair stashed in my closet, with a box of tapes. I also >have something that is very similar to it, but I don't know much about it. >When I dig through my closet, I will report what I find, assuming anyone is >interested. I'd be interested in hearing anything about any T/S stuff you might have. Mine is the first computer I bought in 1982 and it is still boxed and all, but doesn't seem to function any more. There aren't a lot of chips and such on the mainboard of it to check for seating and such either! Jeff -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Fri Mar 14 09:34:15 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings all! 50 already? Wow, great! My name is Ron Kneusel and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks playing with these classic machines is fun! I'll do a quick run-down of what I have (to see if others have them and wish to talk about them): Heathkit H89, Kaypro II, Kaypro 2, SWTPc S/09 6809 system, Apple II+, Apple IIe, Atari 400, Atari 800XL (dead), T/S 1000 (bad keyboard), TRS-80 PC-2, Mac Plus, Mac SE Some questions for y'all.. 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear from you! 2. Can anyone list all the models in the Kaypro line? It seems like an "easy" series of machines to collect. Great design, too! 3. I, too, am interested in learning how to remove the marker from these machines. 4. Anyone have a Jupiter ACE they care to part with? 5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu http://keaggy.intmed.mcw.edu/my_collection.html From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 09:49:24 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: from "Ronald T Kneusel" at Mar 14, 97 09:34:15 am Message-ID: <199703141549.KAA07647@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Ronald T Kneusel once stated: > > Greetings all! > > 50 already? Wow, great! > > My name is Ron Kneusel and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who > thinks playing with these classic machines is fun! My name is Sean. (pauses for cries of "Hi, Sean!" to die down). I have a problem. I ... I collect old computers. > I'll do a quick run-down of what I have (to see if others have them and > wish to talk about them): > > Heathkit H89, Kaypro II, Kaypro 2, SWTPc S/09 6809 system, Apple II+, > Apple IIe, Atari 400, Atari 800XL (dead), T/S 1000 (bad keyboard), TRS-80 > PC-2, Mac Plus, Mac SE > > Some questions for y'all.. > > 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > from you! Is that anything like OS-9? > 3. I, too, am interested in learning how to remove the marker from these > machines. Has anyone tried Windex? Or empying the case and cleaning it with warm water and soap? > 5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them > (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) I try to use the machines I have, and my big project right now is to implement my own OS for them. Most of my machines (with the exception of three) are in good working condition. One needs a replacement harddrive (although getting VMS 4.7 on another drive might be a problem), another needs a new monitor (proprietary I suspect) and the third one I still need to examine (I suspect it still works, although the case is in poor codition). -spc (Software hacker) From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 09:55:10 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Greetings and Salutations! Message-ID: <199703141555.KAA07661@armigeron.com> Hello, my name is Sean. And I collect old computers. I send this to the list owner (as per instructions), so I figure I might as well send it to the list as well. The computers I currently own and use: Amiga 500 - working condition, seven years old (although the model itself dates from '87) IBM PCjr - Working condition, all original parts (new style keyboard though - never did get the chiclet style one). Xerox - Exact model unknown. Does something, but without a working monitor, can't tell for sure. Oh, that and while I have a harddrive for it, I don't have the connector. Tandy 6000 - Currently in the process of being restored. It would have been done a while ago except for my having dropped it. I think it survived, except for some major damage to the case. Generic 386 - Possibly 5 to 7 years old. The only thing unique about this computer is the brass colored metal base, I think from IBM. uVAX 2000 - Works, except I know very little VMS and the harddrive is going (possibly damaged during shipment - there is something loose inside the drive unit). Tandy 6000 - My first Tandy 6000 system in working condition. Also has a Tandy Data Terminal hooked up to it. Data General One - PClone portable made in 1984. Almost, but not quite 100% IBM compatible. Has perhaps the best keyboard of any laptop/portable I've ever encountered. In working condition. Color Computer 2 - My first computer, and still own it. Works, but in storage (no room to set it up). Color Computer 1 - Again, it works, but in storage. C64 - Works. In storage somewhere. Newton - My only Apple computer, and looks to be orphan. Works, in daily use 8-) I'm also planning (hope hope) to pick up an HP workstation this weekend. The local university (which I attended) is having an auction of old equipment, and if I heard correctly, the CS department (which I attended) has some equipment being auctioned off, and I suspect the units (all HPs I think) are the ones I learned Unix on (68020 based machines). They should go pretty cheaply in this day of PC hardware. -spc (About half my computers were free ... 8-) From ekman at lysator.liu.se Fri Mar 14 09:58:45 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: The use of old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them > (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) I like to use my machines. After all, that's what they were made for. The problem is that I don't have room for them all so I can only set up one or two at a time. I like to play classic games on them, and sometimes I do some programming. I have a portable Sord IS-11 from 1984, about the same size as the smallest modern lap-tops, with built-in software in ROM, which I intend to use for word processing in my work (I'm a part-time freelance computer journalist) as soon as I can build a cable to connect it with my PC. /F PS. I mostly collect Commodore and Sord computers, although I am interested in almost anything from the eighties. From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Fri Mar 14 10:01:08 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: Hi all, I am a fan of older computer systems. I own and use an Apple IIc, a IIc+, a IIGS, a C64, a C128, a PC 386 SX-20 (my newest comp), an Amiga 500, an Atari 1040 STF, a Kaypro 2, a Commodroe SX-64 executive portable, a TRS-80 Model 1, a TI99/4A's, an Atari 400 and an 800. I have them interconnected using various switchboxes to help them share resources like my modem, printers and monitors. My computer room is quite a show. I enjoy programming in various languages like Basic and C. I am also playing around with an old Wang OIS system as well but the proprietary level of the language is giving me some guff. I run support pages for various platforms. I am President of the Nova Scotia Apple Users Group, President of the Commodore Users Group of Nova Scotia, Disk Librarian of the Nova Scotia Atari Computers Users Group and President of the Classic Computer Club in Nova Scotia. I maintain websites for all of the above at the following urls: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/AppleUsersGroup/ http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/CUGNS/ http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/NSACUG/ http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/Classic/ I also maintain the various platform software libraries on our freenet's Public Download Area at: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Services/PDA/ My homepage is at: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ab616/ Regards, Tony Cianfaglione From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 10:10:11 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Uh, is this thing on? In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 13, 97 08:28:59 pm Message-ID: <199703141610.LAA07687@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Whitson once stated: > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > > > IBM PCjr - Working condition, all original parts (new style keyboard > > though - never did get the chiclet style one). > > Too bad - you've gotta love the infra-red keyboard interface! But both keyboards for the PCjr (the original chicklet one, and the replacement keyboard) are infra-red (although I never did use the infra-red port, instead opting for the keyboard connection cable. Ends up being cheaper as I didn't have to buy AA batteries). It was perhaps the only two keyboards made by IBM that didn't have a nice feel to them [1]. > > Tandy 6000 - Currently in the process of being restored. It would have > > been done a while ago except for my having dropped it. I > > think it survived, except for some major damage to the > > case. > > Doh! It's awful to save a machine from the junk pile only to bring > it home and wreck it yourself. The Tandy 6000 is one heavy machine. The unit contains a built in monitor (10" I think - it's at home, I'm at work), one 8" drive, and a half-hight MFM harddrive in an akward enclosure. And the design of the case is that of a madman[2]. Both Tandy 6000s I have broke in the exact same place when I opened them for cleaning [4]. I fixed one, and have yet to get around to fixing the one I dropped. > > Newton - My only Apple computer, and looks to be orphan. Works, in > > daily use 8-) > > I'm not sure if this will _ever_ be a classic... :))) I don't know ... it's not a bad machine. -spc (Tired of using cheap PC crap ... ) [1] I'm very picky about my keyboards, and actually prefer IBM keyboards to any other kind. The best is the IBM AT keyboard, which has a nice layout, heavy construction and can be used to bludgeon a person (or a bad computer). The orginal IBM PC keyboard has the same feel, but the layout makes it all but unusuable. PS/2 keyboards don't quite have the same feel, but they're still better than 99% of all PC keyboards out there. Plus you can remove the keycaps and swap them around on unsuspecting people [3]. [2] The same madman must have designed the uVAX 2000 case, because in that one, you have to remove the motherboard to get to the harddrive. [3] Which I did to my officemate when I worked at IBM. [4] The monitor is attached to the top part of the case, with some analog circuitry along the side of the case. Attached to this is a connector to a small ribbon cable leading from the computer itself. In both machines, this connector came off with part of the board it was attached to still inside. Easily fixed with two DB25 connectors and some solder. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Mar 14 10:15:00 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 14-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on > >the list? Is that right? That is the basic functionality of a 'mailing list'... B^} > ... BTW, does anyone know of a > good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the > cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various > 2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way > of removing the markings. Oh yeah, run into that one ALL the time! What has always worked for me is Acetone on a paper towel. (ONLY in well ventilated areas!) Takes the marker off and evaporates quickly enough to not harm the paint or plastic. NOTE: put the Acetone on the PAPER TOWEL, NOT on the equipment! And always dispose of the used paper towels in an OUTSIDE garbage can! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dcobley at mail.island.net Fri Mar 14 10:23:58 1997 From: dcobley at mail.island.net (David Cobley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <199703141623.IAA29016@norm.island.net> Bill, At 04:37 PM 3/13/97 -0800, you wrote: ,snip> >2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If >any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always >hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). If you see any keyboards for the Hewlett-Packard HP125 system, they were alos used with the HP 26xx series, I'd love to buy a couple. Thanks. David Cobley. Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech and Hewlett-Packard Echoes. Internet-dcobley@mail.island.net, or, davidc@macn.bc.ca From dcobley at mail.island.net Fri Mar 14 10:23:59 1997 From: dcobley at mail.island.net (David Cobley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <199703141623.IAA29022@norm.island.net> Hi Josh. At 07:37 PM 3/13/97 -0600, you wrote: >I collect old Tandy's, including M102's & WP-2's (not the PCs), old AT&T >Unix stuff, old Calculators (HP, etc.) Let me know if anybody finds >anything! Among the storage of stuff I have and don't need is a large three-ring binder from Radio Shack and Titled Radio Shack TRS-89 Model II Owner's Manual. It contains TRS-80 Model II Operations Manual, TRS-80 Model 16 (Model II Mode) Disl Operating System Reference Manual, TRSDOS Version 2.0 ontains several Sections) Section 1. General Information, Section 2. Library Commands, Section 3. Utility Programs. Section 4. Technical Information, Section 5. Appendices, Introduction, Commands, Technical Information, Appendices The Binder and contents are in "as new" condition. I have no need for it. Are you ?or anyone else on the list interested in having it? I would pack and ship it to someone who really wants it. Recipient pays any shipping expenses. It weighs several pounds . David Cobley. Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech and Hewlett-Packard Echoes. Internet-dcobley@mail.island.net, or, davidc@macn.bc.ca From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 14 10:25:04 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970314162504.008e98c4@mail.comland.com > At 10:49 AM 3/14/97 -0500, Sean wrote: > I try to use the machines I have, and my big project right now is to >implement my own OS for them. Most of my machines (with the exception of >three) are in good working condition. One needs a replacement harddrive What's a harddrive?? I use my atari just about every day. Thanks to some of the emulators, I still use a program that I wrote about 13 years ago. It's a program to list out the important things I have to do each day. It's a really old scheduler, but it's easy to use, and works like a charm. If anyone knows or has an eprom burner or information about burning cartridges on the atari, I would appreciate hearing from them. My dad has a RomMax 4G Universal Eprom Programmer at work, and we cant seem to read the eproms from any cartridge. I would like to figure this out, maybe there is a proprietary scheme, but we can't seem to figure it out. I would also like to acquire my own eprom burner, so anyone with a cheap no frills one for sale, please let me know. Of course, it would help if it could read these atari roms. Thanks in advance. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From adam.bergstrom at um.erisoft.se Fri Mar 14 10:25:37 1997 From: adam.bergstrom at um.erisoft.se (Adam Bergstrom) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: cover cleaning References: Message-ID: <33297C01.48B9@um.erisoft.se> I have successfully cleaned a few computer covers (plastic) with hot water and ordinary washing detergent. Just leave the cover in for half an hour, and use the dishbrush gently. The results have been quite marvelous! The acetone trick is also good, but don't rub too much or the plastic WILL become soft! /Adam From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Mar 14 10:35:11 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Mar 14, 97 08:15:00 am Message-ID: <199703141635.JAA17263@calico.litterbox.com> to get stickers and stuff off computer cases - there's a product called GOO GONE. It's a little less harsh than acitone (ie it's probably somewhat less carcinogenic) and won't eat the plastic. Or at least it hasn't for me. On a related note, has anyone found a better way than softscrub and/or hot soapy water to get cigarrette smoke deposits off a system? My GS was owned by a chain smoker from a family of chain smokers and I literally had to pull each piece out of its case and scrub it clean (boy the keyboard sure was fun) to get the yellow gunk off. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two. One to hold the giraffe and the other to fill the bathtub with brightly colored machine tools. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Mar 14 10:41:04 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: from "hellige" at Mar 14, 97 03:57:06 am Message-ID: <199703141641.JAA17308@calico.litterbox.com> Ooo.. "Peanut" (PCJr) keyboards. Anyone have a spare? to sell? anyone know if the IR format is documented anywhere? (gleams of having one to talk to my palmtop with in my eyes) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two. One to hold the giraffe and the other to fill the bathtub with brightly colored machine tools. From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 11:02:38 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703141641.JAA17308@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim" at Mar 14, 97 09:41:04 am Message-ID: <199703141702.MAA07886@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Jim once stated: > > Ooo.. "Peanut" (PCJr) keyboards. Anyone have a spare? to sell? anyone know if > the IR format is documented anywhere? (gleams of having one to talk to my > palmtop with in my eyes) Sorry, don't have any spare PCjr keyboards, but I do have the technical manual for the PCjr at home. If I remember, I'll type up the information and send it to the list. -spc (Hmmmm, wonder if my Newton could emulate the PCjr keyboard? 8-) From gram at cnct.com Fri Mar 14 12:21:36 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703141549.KAA07647@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Ronald T Kneusel once stated: > > > > 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > > from you! > > Is that anything like OS-9? > The Southwest Technical Products Corporation S/09 was a box that contained a MC6809 cpu card in a SS-50 bus. OS-9 was one of several OSs that ran on it, in fact I believe that it was the platform that OS-9 was originally developed on. But I could be wrong about that, and I suspect that Microware was working on predecessors to OS-9 on MC6800 systems. Ward Griffiths From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 14 12:48:52 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33299b86.890608@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:57:06 +0500, you wrote: > >>I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on >>the list? Is that right? > > That is what it appears to be doing. I felt kind of silly after I stopped >and thought about it once I had posted that reply! BTW, does anyone know of a >good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the >cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various >2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way >of removing the markings. Yes, that is how a mailing list works, anything sent to the list goes to all. I am Barry Peterson, live in Oklahoma City, retired but busier than most folks I know... ;^) I own a few TI-99/4A systems (my first) and have been president of the local TI-99 users group. I also have a Kaypro (CP/M) and a TRS-80 Model 4P. (In the garage) Try lacquer thinner to clean the plastic, it's worked for me. _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 14 13:52:34 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: cover cleaning In-Reply-To: <33297C01.48B9@um.erisoft.se> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314145234.006b209c@mail.northernway.net> At 05:25 PM 3/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >I have successfully cleaned a few computer covers (plastic) >with hot water and ordinary washing detergent. Just leave the >cover in for half an hour, and use the dishbrush gently. >The results have been quite marvelous! > >The acetone trick is also good, but don't rub too much or the >plastic WILL become soft! This gets *some* markers that I've tried, and it's really good at getting the goo off of cases without melting them: straight Naptha. You can buy it at hardware stores. However, it's *super* flammable, so if yer smokin' while you're cleanin', you'll probably end up in smoke! I've also used this to dissolve the spare residue from solder flux. It works well, but again, don't get that soldering iron near it! (Especially mine, it's butane fired!) I've used this to de-goo 3 or 4 Tandy 200 laptop cases, and it's one of the *very* few things that can safely dissolve wax. I learned this when I learned about candlemaking. However, it doesn't have much luck against smoke damage. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Mar 14 13:04:18 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! References: Message-ID: <3329A132.2C00@oboe.calpoly.edu> > BTW, does anyone know of a > good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the > cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various > 2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way > of removing the markings. Goo Gone is the key I believe. Cleans everything. Works great for those pesky price stickers and old tape adhesive too. And it smells like oranges! You still have to be careful if you rub too hard you can alter the texture of the plastic. But that goes double for acetone and lacquer thinner. I've heard baby oil works for stickers too but I haven't tried it. From gram at cnct.com Fri Mar 14 14:12:32 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: One sick puppy... Message-ID: If you want to see a collection that will make you drool all over yourselves, click over to and look at the pictures toward the bottom of the page. And I thought that I had a bad habit (well, my fiance thinks it is) of never throwing anything away. And those of you within reach, don't forget the 22nd Trenton Computer Festival April 26-27. It's one hell of a swap meet. (I'm told they have speakers and exhibitors inside, but I never seem to get away from the parking lots). Ward Griffiths There will be peace on earth when the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Fri Mar 14 13:59:59 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > The Southwest Technical Products Corporation S/09 was a box that > contained a MC6809 cpu card in a SS-50 bus. OS-9 was one of several > OSs that ran on it, in fact I believe that it was the platform that > OS-9 was originally developed on. But I could be wrong about that, > and I suspect that Microware was working on predecessors to OS-9 on > MC6800 systems. Yup. The one I have, however, is designed for UniFLEX. It comes up with the UniBug monitor which will let me change/dump memory and boot 8" floppies, a hard drive, or a Winchester hard drive, all of which I don't have. I was, through the great kindness of others, given a good FD-2 controller for 5.25" drives and the S-BUG monitor ROM. Unfortunately, the S-BUG ROM will not work in the S/09 system, as stated in the system manual. :( And the UniBug monitor is too wimpy to let me enter the FD-2 boot code by hand (I can enter it, but there is no "run" command!) I've found the extensive UniFLEX archive on the net and have looked at the code for the UniBug monitor but none of those versions match mine (version 1.11) I'm considering writing my own ROM code if I could get someone to make an EPROM for me. Any help with getting this S/09 to be a regular -09 system so I can run FLEX as a single user off of 5.25" floppies would be greatly appreciated! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Mar 14 19:49:59 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: One sick puppy... References: Message-ID: <332A0046.26B2@goldrush.com> Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > > If you want to see a collection that will make you drool all over > yourselves, click over to and look > at the pictures toward the bottom of the page. And I thought that I > had a bad habit (well, my fiance thinks it is) of never throwing > anything away. > I AM IMPRESSED WITH THE PICS! Gosh I guess I really need a bigger toybox. :( Now I got to get my 'collection' pic on my page, (not nearly as impressive, but interesting nonetheless. Hey, can we digest this maillist? I think my incoming mail beat out my wife's this time. Well she says we were even... (many of hers ARE digests, yikes!) So who's a PET owner out there? Got any good software, extra books or magazines??? (btw: check out University Microfilm: http://www.umi.com/ they have computer magazines on film that go back to the 70s! (I was surprised to see Micro and some old dates for COMPUTE!) Got any info. on an MTU visible memory board?? I just pulled out a few PETs, which have to suffer in storage (sigh), to do a Flash Attack tourny at my BBS/Gaming gathering, only to discover one is brain dead & monitor weak, one ok, and the third is ok but has an unknown problem (runs just about everything BUT Flash Attack, (all have the same ROM revision, etc.) So I guess I will bring just one (to play other games) and do the F.A. beta I and a friend coded for the 64. (sigh, went and added PET sound hookups to the cable and everything!) While having them out I got a chance to explore the contents of that 'system-2001.zoo' archive I FTPed from funet.fi (pub/cbm/pet/ I think), many of the games are in English some of the ones in German are pretty easy to figure out. Regardless this is one excellent collection of games, many of them in ML or hybrid. A must D/L for PET collectors! Where to find PETS? Kinda hard nowadays, try some of the older Commodore repair shops, though shipping would be pretty steep (they are heavy) other than that flea markets or large thrift stores (that have room for alot of computers and stuff. In CA there is a place called Weird Stuff that is famed for it's stock of old equipment and parts. Haven't been to it yet but it definitely is on my list. ;) Larry Anderson From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Mar 14 19:16:25 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: One sick puppy... References: <332A0046.26B2@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <3329F869.2EA1@oboe.calpoly.edu> > Where to find PETS? Kinda hard nowadays, try some of the older > Commodore repair shops, though shipping would be pretty steep (they are > heavy) other than that flea markets or large thrift stores (that have > room for alot of computers and stuff. In CA there is a place called > Weird Stuff that is famed for it's stock of old equipment and parts. > Haven't been to it yet but it definitely is on my list. ;) I passed on a PET a while back at the Goodwill. Should've bought it. They are big though. I've been to Weird Stuff and they have a lot of old stuff but their prices were a little steep when compared to thrift stores, garage sales, etc. If they have that one thing you can't find though, go for it. It's fun looking at all the stuff anyway. Greg From estabrr at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 14 20:22:02 1997 From: estabrr at ix.netcom.com (Richard Estabrook) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Collecting Kaypros for fun and profit Message-ID: <199703150222.UAA22656@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> Ron Kneusel wrote: > >> SNIP << > >2. Can anyone list all the models in the Kaypro line? It seems like an "easy" series of machines to collect. Great design, too! > Non-Linear Systems, Inc. (aka Kaypro Computer) made a great many different machines. The most collectable would be the early CP/M systems. Their later DOS-based machines were not all that memorable. These machines include the Kaycomp, Kaypro II, Kaypro IV, Kaypro 1, 2, 2x, 4, 4x, 10, 12, and the Robie. The Kaypro 16 and 16/2 were DOS machines in Kaypro 10/12 boxes. Kaypros are great to collect! Parts are available from most electronics suppliers. A complete technical manual is avaiable from Dave Baldwin at The Computer Journal (TCJ). Spares can be obtained from any local Goodwill or flea market. There is no greater satisfaction than that gotten from canibalizing an old IBM XT to rebuild a Kaypro! I'm still looking for a Kaypro 4x that needs a good home! Rich Estabrook, estabrr@ix.netcom.com From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Mar 14 19:39:38 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <3329FDDA.36CB@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, There are a few systems at our local Goodwill tht have been sitting there for a while. 3 IBM PC Jr's IBM PS/2 A Televideo w/built-in screen and drives w/book A Laser Apple II clone w/monitor with some keyboard buttons missing. Probably $20 each plus shipping. Just thought I'd ask. I'm not going to pick them up unless someone else wants them Greg -- _________________________________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30.......Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From wbrco at valuenet.net Fri Mar 14 21:20:47 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! References: Message-ID: <332A158E.5148@valuenet.net> Ronald T Kneusel wrote: > 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > from you! Ohhh yea! Got lots! Got lots of documentation and software too. -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From wbrco at valuenet.net Fri Mar 14 21:24:31 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Greetings and Salutations! References: <199703141555.KAA07661@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <332A166F.1750@valuenet.net> Captain Napalm wrote: > Xerox - Exact model unknown. Does something, but without a > working monitor, can't tell for sure. Oh, that and while > I have a harddrive for it, I don't have the connector. Hmm.. Not the foot print of a 8" floppy drive is it? Look for something that says 820 on it. The Xerox 820's were good CP/M and LDos machines. Z80, IO, 64k etc... But I'm not an expert. I've copied someone in who is. Maybe I can get him to join the list! -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From wbrco at valuenet.net Fri Mar 14 22:59:33 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends References: <3329FDDA.36CB@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: <332A2CB5.3D0D@valuenet.net> Greg Mast wrote: > > Hello, > > There are a few systems at our local Goodwill tht have been sitting > there for a while. Has anyone but me discovered AuctionWeb? Lot's of newish pc crud, but occationally, the odd TI or Atari. BTW, for you Sinclair crazy's.. I have an original ZX-80!! Yes, I built it myself.. This was the one BEFORE Clive designed the big chip to replace all the glue logic. It only runs in fast mode. I also have - would you believe - A Sinclair Clone. Called "Your Computer" made in Hong Kong. Takes all the Sinclair accessories, has a composite video out, a rubber qwrty keyboard, joystick, and adverts "sound and music". I've never put power to it... Have the outer box, and manual. If anybody knows any more about it, let me know! -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From tedbird at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 14 23:31:35 1997 From: tedbird at ix.netcom.com (Ted Birdsell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! References: <332A158E.5148@valuenet.net> Message-ID: <332A3437.F19@ix.netcom.com> Hi, Good to see so many classic computer fans. I currently have 82 classic computers (65 different models, 17 duplicates). I'm looking for a Commodore KIM-1 and PET 2001. If anyone is interested in swapping for a Osborne I, let me know. Ted From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 14 23:48:53 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <19970315060050571.AAA125@computer-name> > >What I would like is Photofact schematics for Atari computer hardware. I > >have some, but I know I will be needing them when I finish my electronics > >class. > > I've never run across these. Were they something generally available when > the Atari's were popular? It's not a matter of being "popular". Every electronic device ever made has schematics for it. In fact, the schematics are made first. It's basically a blueprint of what electronic components are, and an occasional tip on how to repair. It's made for electronic technicians. I noticed you have a list of systems in your sig including the TI-99/4a. Man, that was a fun computer! I wonder how Texas Instruments came up with that model number. mhop@snip.net From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 14 23:56:00 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <19970315060050571.AAC125@computer-name> > Hello All, > I am mainly interested in Atari 8bits, but have found that I enjoy > using just about any classic type computer. If anyone has or needs atari > information, let me know. I still have my 800 running. In fact, my kids are > growing up on the exact same games that honed my skills, and keep me from > being uncoordinated and walking into walls today. I know they enjoy them > just as much as I still do. I am looking forward to watching my grandkids > play choplifter on my original 800. Well, enough about me.... > Isaac Davis Our computer user groups meets at my place once a month, and I have an 8 bit set up too, but it rarely gets touched - when someone finds a game that they are curious enough. Most of the time, the Jaguars and the PC gets the attention during our meetings. Not to mention the beer. :) mhop@snip.net From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 15 01:37:26 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970315023724.0091a920@mail.northernway.net> At 10:59 PM 3/14/97 -0600, you wrote: >Has anyone but me discovered AuctionWeb? I stop in there at least 1-2 times per week, and occasionally puchase from there, when the mood strikes. As a matter of fact, one of the "crazy" machines on sale there is a Tandy 600 laptop. Remember those? I actually have one, a friend sent it to me for free. It needed fixing, tho... one key cap spring was missing (replaced it with a Tandy 200 space-key spring) and I need to put in new nicads (anyone know a good source for lithium-ion???) Trivia: This was the first built-in floppy laptop made. (It's OEM is Zenith, as a matter of fact, so if someone says "Zenith did it first" you're still right.) Anyway, for y'all that haven't discovered it yet, head to: http://www.ebay.com/aw/ and you'll find a treasure trove of goodies (sometimes). Cya l8r, "Merch" Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 00:46:06 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314224606.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:34 AM 3/14/97 -0600, you wrote: > >Greetings all! H'lo... >Some questions for y'all.. > >1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > from you! I've got one in the collection. Needs a good cleaning, a boot disk, and some docs... B^} >5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them > (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) Mine tend to be in intermittant (if not frequent) use. Most reciently one of my Altairs ended up hooked up to a DEC card reader, feeding data to my PC, which... well... that would spoil the story! A longer form of the story can be found on my web pages (see sig below) along with pix and (if I get the time this weekend) an AVI clip of the operation... While we're in the SWTPC arena, a question for the group: I'm looking for some information, software, and docs on a recient addition to the collection. The item in question is a board marked as a 'Digisector DS-68' from 'The Micro Works'. The board has a 1978 copyright on it, and appears to be designed for use with an SS-50 bus machine such as the SWTPC 680x series of microcomputers. Curiously, when it came to me it had been mated (fairly elegantly, fortunately) to a MITS 4PIO board, apparently for use with an 8080 or Z-80 based system. (by someone with the full docs I would suspect) I'd like to get it going in its original configuration/system. Any assistance appreciated! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 00:54:53 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970314162504.008e98c4@mail.comland.com > Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314225453.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> At 10:25 AM 3/14/97 -0600, you wrote: >If anyone knows or has an eprom burner or information about burning >cartridges on the atari, I would appreciate hearing from them. My dad has a >RomMax 4G Universal Eprom Programmer at work, and we cant seem to read the >eproms from any cartridge. I would like to figure this out, maybe there is >a proprietary scheme, but we can't seem to figure it out. Hmmm... have not looked at Atari ROMs since the days when I used to service them, but they might have used a trick I first noticed on the Apple // ROMs. One of the chip select lines is inverted from the norm, so if you put it in a standard programmer it would always appear blank. As our programmers at the time were not real bright, I built a test socket that we plugged into the programmer and then plugged the ROM into the test socket. The test socket had a 7406 ('04?, it's late) hex inverter and a set of jumpers on it that allowed us to selectively invert any/all of the chip select lines. Problem solved! And curiously enough, the inverted line tended to be the program voltage line on the matching EPROM so if we needed to install one in an Apple // as a replacement we just needed to remember to fold that pin under. Might be worth a look. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 00:56:28 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: cover cleaning In-Reply-To: <33297C01.48B9@um.erisoft.se> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314225628.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:25 PM 3/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >I have successfully cleaned a few computer covers (plastic) >with hot water and ordinary washing detergent. Just leave the >cover in for half an hour, and use the dishbrush gently. >The results have been quite marvelous! > >The acetone trick is also good, but don't rub too much or the >plastic WILL become soft! True enough, which is one of the reasons I specified putting the Acetone on the paper towel rather than the surface to be cleaned. And then use caution... Stopping to let the surface dry properly IS important! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 01:28:04 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: ...and now a word... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314232804.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> Hope this won't be construed as advertising, but I thought it worth a mention... (and maybe it will get people to check out my web pages B^} ) In the course of things, I've ended up doing a number of restorations on 'classic computers' both in my own collection and for others, and as such I've developed sources for many otherwise hard to come by parts. The one example I'd like to mention here are replacement front panel switches for Altair and IMSAI microcomputers. I have exact, original manufacturer replacement switches for all models of Altair (both the original small toggles, and the longer flattened toggle for the A/B series) and complete switches and/or replacement toggle levers (in both red and blue) for the IMSAI micros. Details and pricing are available on my web pages. Equipment restorations also available. Soon to come: Replacement dress front panels (painted and screened) for the Altair 8800/8800a microcomputer. Regards; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sat Mar 15 00:52:59 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: AuctionWeb References: <3.0.32.19970315023724.0091a920@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <332A474B.5966@oboe.calpoly.edu> > >Has anyone but me discovered AuctionWeb? > > I stop in there at least 1-2 times per week, and occasionally puchase from > there, when the mood strikes. > Anyway, for y'all that haven't discovered it yet, head to: > > http://www.ebay.com/aw/ I usually list my computers there for sale. Sometimes it's hard to tell what the going price is on this stuff. In the auction, the buyers set the price. I usually do alright and the people buying seem very happy to get them so I guess everybody does ok. And it's a blast scanning the listings. As a matter of fact, I have been bugging them to add a category for "collectible computers" or "classic computers" or "computers over 10 years old" or "non-IBM/Apple computers"... Well, you get the idea. The listings get lost in the middle of all the PC stuff. And the same with software. Glad they have a good search function or you would never be able to find the "good" stuff. In any case, if some of you from the list would email them on the feedback address, mailto:aw-feedback@ebay.com, maybe they would go for it. They have over 30 collectibles categories. I know there would be enough listings to make it worth doing. Greg From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 13 23:02:06 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >It's not a matter of being "popular". Every electronic device ever made >has schematics for it. In fact, the schematics are made first. It's >basically a blueprint of what electronic components are, and an occasional >tip on how to repair. It's made for electronic technicians. I realize every piece of electronic equipment has a schematic published for it, but I was inquiring whether the ones he was referring to were some that were readily available, or if they were of the type that only a technician was likely to have access to. >I noticed you have a list of systems in your sig including the TI-99/4a. >Man, that was a fun computer! I wonder how Texas Instruments came up with >that model number. Yes, it's a great machine. I have a boxed TI-99/4a, PEbox with 32k RAM and disk drive w/interface, the speech synthesizer, and a number of command modules. It's in great shape cosmetically as well. I'm trying to work out a deal for an RS232 card for the PEbox now. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Sat Mar 15 07:37:53 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Atari carts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970314225453.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Jim Willing wrote: > >If anyone knows or has an eprom burner or information about burning > >cartridges on the atari, I would appreciate hearing from them. My dad has a > > One of the chip select lines is inverted from the norm, so if you put it in > a standard programmer it would always appear blank. As our programmers at > the time were not real bright, I built a test socket that we plugged into > the programmer and then plugged the ROM into the test socket. I know that this is done for the Atari 2600 carts, so I imagine it would be done for the computer carts as well. - Ron From jeffh at eleventh.com Fri Mar 14 22:13:51 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: current wants Message-ID: Would anyone have any of the following and be willing to part with it: 1) Printhead for Commodore VIC-1525 printer, as well as info on any ribbons that would work in this printer 2) Sinclair/Timex-Sinclair stuff: I was looking through an old Gladstone Electronics catalog, from Feb. 1983, and noticed they showed a lot of add-ons for the T/S-1000 and ZX-81, such as speech synthesizers, Centronics and RS232 interfaces, modems, the ZX Printer, and even a disk subsystem. I'd like more info on some of what was available for these machines, as I never bothered to buy anything other than the 16k Ram expansion for mine. I used it strictly for BASIC programming at the time. Also, I'd be interested in picking up a Timex-Sinclair 2068. Btw, thanks to all those that responded to my inquiry about removing magic marker from the cases. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 15 10:11:47 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: ...and now a word... Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970315111145.00a15d60@mail.northernway.net> At 11:28 PM 3/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hope this won't be construed as advertising, but I thought it worth a >mention... (and maybe it will get people to check out my web pages B^} ) [ ad snipped ] Well, to be honest, it's tough not to construe that post as advertising, as it clearly was. Good! If you don't advertise that you may be good at something, or have some crazy parts for a crazy machine in stock, a useful machine might stay in the closet because someone can't fix it. And seeing good machines collect dust is something I just can't endure! IMHO, as long as it's not SPAM, keep sending those advertisements! Here's mine: I've recently begun refurbishing several Tandy 200 laptops for a friend of mine in CA. Subsequently, I've learned several tricks on how to fix these fantastic little computers. If you need pointers on fixing up T200's, let me know. Or if you don't want to tackle it yourself, I'm willing to fix them for $25/hr benchtime + shipping to and from. You only pay if the machine gets fixed, other than shipping to me. If I can't fix it, I'll pay for shipping back to you. Keep those geezers rolling along! Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From danjo at xnet.com Sat Mar 15 10:47:08 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Dan and Joanne Tucker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:52 2005 Subject: Why would I do this? In-Reply-To: <332A3437.F19@ix.netcom.com> from "Ted Birdsell" at Mar 15, 97 00:31:35 am Message-ID: <199703151647.KAA27356@xnet.com> > Hi, > > Good to see so many classic computer fans. I currently have 82 classic > computers (65 different models, 17 duplicates). I'm looking for a > Commodore KIM-1 and PET 2001. If anyone is interested in swapping for a > Osborne I, let me know. > > Ted Why would I trade/swap/sell my perfectly running MOS Tech KIM-1 board for a piece of junk Osborne 1????????? 8-) Now you say you have 17 duplicates - what are they? Just don't say 17 Osbornes 8-) BC From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 10:46:51 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: ...and now a word... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970315111145.00a15d60@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970315084651.00e8e3b4@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:11 AM 3/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:28 PM 3/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Hope this won't be construed as advertising, but I thought it worth a >>mention... (and maybe it will get people to check out my web pages B^} ) > >[ ad snipped ] > > >Well, to be honest, it's tough not to construe that post as advertising, as >it clearly was. > Ok, it was late... mayhaps I should have phrased it is "blatant advertising"? B^} B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From josh at netins.net Sat Mar 15 15:22:25 1997 From: josh at netins.net (Josh M. Nutzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <199703152114.PAA23280@ins1.netins.net> I used to own a Zenith laptop, a ZP-150 I belive. Looked like a Tandy 600, except no floppy. Used 10 AA batteries!!! Had same "Microsoft Works" software on it too! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+ From BNICALEK at aol.com Sat Mar 15 17:03:15 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970315180314_141280904@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-15 01:04:11 EST, you write: << I noticed you have a list of systems in your sig including the TI-99/4a. Man, that was a fun computer! I wonder how Texas Instruments came up with that model number. mhop@snip.net >> The "TI-99/4A" was derived from the following: TI: Texas Instruments, of Course. 99: A cute little number based on the "9900" microprocessor, which the computer had as the CPU. 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? A: The enhanced model of the "TI-99/4", which came out in 1981, the 99/4 came out around 1978. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com or reply direct to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From wbrco at valuenet.net Sat Mar 15 17:54:47 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends References: <199703152114.PAA23280@ins1.netins.net> Message-ID: <332B36C7.2ED2@valuenet.net> Josh M. Nutzman wrote: > > I used to own a Zenith laptop, a ZP-150 I belive. Looked like a Tandy > 600, except no floppy. Used 10 AA batteries!!! Had same "Microsoft Works" > software on it too! My father still has his, and uses it frequently for packet radio! I frankly, never liked it much, but for the time it was pretty slick. -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From Ryerdon at aol.com Sat Mar 15 17:34:23 1997 From: Ryerdon at aol.com (Ryerdon@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970315183422_1948948696@emout13.mail.aol.com> Oops, you must have me confused with someone else. I don't have a TI computer (lots of others, but not a TI). By the way, maybe I will piggyback my message here to add to what I said in another email to you people about an hour ago. I do not want in any way to throw cold water on your enthusiasm but I sense from the initial message soliticiting subscribers that you think you are plowing virgin computer areas in this area of old computers. I assume you are aware that there are lots of web sites already on the internet devoted to old computers. This doesn't mean one more won't be welcome but if on the off chance you aren't aware of the scope of exisitng stuff, here is a path you might want to check out: www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/ncs.htm. When you get to that web site, go down the list to Other Computer Historical Resources, then go down that list to the Obsolete Computer Museum. Well, the more the merrier ! From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Sat Mar 15 20:59:37 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Aargh! Message-ID: Just a quick note for those of you who subscribed Thursday, Friday, and Saturday - I'm no longer replying to introduction e-mail. I only anticipated a few subscribers and I have hundreds of messages in my inbox. You're all added to the list. Have fun! Bill From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 21:29:07 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Aargh! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970315192907.006e6f84@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:59 PM 3/15/97 -0800, you wrote: >Just a quick note for those of you who subscribed >Thursday, Friday, and Saturday - > >I'm no longer replying to introduction e-mail. I only >anticipated a few subscribers and I have hundreds of messages >in my inbox. You're all added to the list. What Hath Bill Wrought? (snicker) >Have fun! One must always keep in mind with dealing with this subject, forecasts and prognostications are always off by even factors of powers of 2! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Sat Mar 15 23:01:42 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Many topics... Message-ID: Hi all. I just finished reading the 279 classiccmp related e-mails in my inbox! I'm just going to cover all the bases with this message. 1. List Related I haven't received a tally for today but I'm pretty sure we broke 200 subscribers. I'm no longer requiring intro letters. (Those of who who told me this was a silly idea are allowed to snicker.) I'm looking into making the list available as a digest. I'm sure it's possible, I just don't know how to do it yet. I'm also aware (for those who asked) that this list doesn't particularly break new ground - I just thought it would be nice to have one place for everyone to chat. 2. Cleaning For removing stickers, gum, resin, etc: Goo Gone Acetone (can destroy plastic) Methane based freeze spray (can discolor plastic) Mineral Oil For removing marker Any solvent (alcohol, naptha, etc) Lava Soap (can damage texured surfacing) For removing sun/tobacco discoloring Purple Stuff (auto cleaner available at parts stores) This stuff works really well! For removing gunk from rubber parts Rubber Renew (MG Chemicals) 3. Ads/"Commercial" Posts As far as I'm concerned topic related advertisements are just fine on this list. It's hard to find parts for old systems and probably just as hard to sell them. 4. Crash course on mailing lists: When you write a message to the list - everyone gets it. When you respond to a message and choose to respond to all recipients everyone gets it. If a message is getting off topic you should probably stop replying to everyone and take it to private mail. To unsubscribe send a message to listproc@u.washington.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP your-address. 5. Salvation Army Computer Sale Sorry folks, I had car trouble and never made it :( That's it. I'm glad to see that the list is being used and I've been really impressed with the content so far. I'm still reeling from all the cool stuff I learned about while reading your intro letters. Bill Whitson CLASSICCMP "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From jeffh at eleventh.com Sat Mar 15 13:54:17 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI-99/4a for sale/trade Message-ID: I have an extra TI-99/4A console, with power supply, and was wondering if anybody would be interested in this? It works perfectly, and has been tested with a number of program cartridges/groms/command modules, as well as with a PEBox. It's the original silver/black, and is in fair shape cosmetically, with some scratches on the silver portion of the case. It is 100% complete, with no missing parts. I do not have the TI RF modulator for it though, as I have only one of these. If interested in it, I'd be open to all offers for this machine, including trades for other interesting equipment/peripheral. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Sat Mar 15 14:28:05 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Items found at thrift stores Message-ID: I went through a couple thrift stores today and found the following items for sale: 1) TI-99/4 Peripheral Expansion System: was intact, but only had the flex cable interface card, cable, floppy controller, and floppy disk drive installed. Was labeled as 'not working' and had a price of $5 on it. 2) Commodore Plus/4: included power supply, and was labeled as 'not working' but did power up. couldn't plug it up to a TV. had a price of $7 on it. Loose..no box or manual. 3) Commodore 1541 disk drive: new style (brown case, flip handle). condition unknown though looks good. lacks serial cable. price of $4. If anybody is in need of these items, or is interested in them, let me know and we could probably work something out for me to pick them up and ship them to you for the cost of it plus the shipping. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From magnus at ii.uib.no Sun Mar 16 00:53:51 1997 From: magnus at ii.uib.no (Magnus Y Alvestad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Pied Piper In-Reply-To: hellige's message of Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:54:17 +0500 Message-ID: Does anyone have any disks for the Pied Piper? I have one, but nothing to run on it. It's a CP/M computer built in Hong Kong. -Magnus 2 x ND100 (Norsk Data) 2 x Altos MicroVax 3100 VaxStation 3100 NeXT Cube Oric Pied Piper From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 01:34:34 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <19970316073940846.AAC142@computer-name> > Called "Your Computer" made in Hong Kong. Takes all the > Sinclair accessories, has a composite video out, a rubber > qwrty keyboard, joystick, and adverts "sound and music". > I've never put power to it... Have the outer box, and manual. > If anybody knows any more about it, let me know! That's it! That's the "other" Sinclair I mentioned! I have one too, and haven't touched it in years. mhop@snip.net From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Sun Mar 16 00:53:27 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) Message-ID: I imagine one of you out there must be interested... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:22:21 -0500 (EST) From: Larry D. Barchett To: Bill Whitson Subject: Re: Classic Computers List Not real interested in your list at the moment (too much else to read), but I have something that may be of interest to your target audience. I have a PDP-11/23 that I will have to get rid of soon (it actually belongs to the lab I work for, and they want the space). I have been able to keep it around for a while in the hopes of finding a good home for it. I will be able to keep it until the end of May (I graduate then, and when I'm gone, they'll throw it out). The machine is free for the taking (taker figures out how to get it to wherever they want it). Don't know if it works now, but it did when they took it offline several years ago. It sat untouched for the most part, but someone did throw away one of the side covers. Comes with a RL-02 cartridge disk, a PRIME-2 terminal, and the main processor, in a small cabinet. Someone PLEASE save this classic machine. ldb -- --- Preserve wildlife. Pickle a squirrel today. --- /===================================================================\ |........Go!........ Larry D. Barchett | |....NNN.....NNN.... Department of Computer Science and Engineering | |.....N.N.....N .... University of Notre Dame | |..DDDDDDNDDDDDDD... Notre Dame, IN 46556-5637 | |...D.N...N...N..D.. | |..DDDDDDDDNDDDDD... Internet: ldb@cse.nd.edu | |.....N.....N N..... | |....NNN.....NNN.... Phone: 219-631-5772 | |.......IRISH....... WWW: http://www.cse.nd.edu/~dcrlab/ldb | \===================================================================/ From classicjr at juno.com Sun Mar 16 11:23:47 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (J, G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Lemon Extract References: Message-ID: <19970316.092348.10079.0.classicjr@juno.com> Hi all! This list is great. I have been collecting and trading computers since 1983. I'll make a list soon, but for now I thought I'd throw in my solution to the spots and dirt on the computer case and keyboard problem... Try Lemon Extract (from your local grocery store spices section) on a paper towel. I was given the idea from a former acqauintence who repaired machines. It seems to work great on most plastic surfaces!! Jeff Rottman in Texas From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Sun Mar 16 10:40:30 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Keyboard for Amiga 1000 Message-ID: Hi guys, I was at my local PC scrap house and picked up a lonely A1000 sitting in the corner. I got the startup disks and a mouse for it but there's only one problem: I don't have a keyboard! (Hey, I only paid $10 for it so...) Anyway, if anyone knows ANYWHERE I can get one, let me know! I've wanted one of these every since it came out! (Looks pretty sitting next to my 128D too) Thanks! Les PS I've called many Amiga supply houses including "Software Hut" which is pretty close by. The best anyone has been able to do is $75 for a A2000 keyboard with adaptor; I'd rather have the original style. (Besides, I can get an A1000 with keyboard for LESS than $75) From ronaldm at mars.ark.com Sun Mar 16 12:28:51 1997 From: ronaldm at mars.ark.com (Ron Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: current wants Message-ID: <199703161828.KAA25626@mars.ark.com> >2) Sinclair/Timex-Sinclair stuff: I was looking through an old Gladstone >Electronics catalog, from Feb. 1983, and noticed they showed a lot of add-ons >for the T/S-1000 and ZX-81, such as speech synthesizers, Centronics and RS232 >interfaces, modems, the ZX Printer, and even a disk subsystem. I'd like more >info on some of what was available for these machines, as I never bothered to >buy anything other than the 16k Ram expansion for mine. I used it strictly >for BASIC programming at the time. Also, I'd be interested in picking up a >Timex-Sinclair 2068. Jeff, I have an address and phone number here, an individual I met in 1993 or thereabouts. At that time I was interested in adding a disk drive to my Timex, and this chap had all the info. Never did follow up on that, but if this guy is still around, he'd probably be able to give you some of the information you're looking for. Nazir Pashtoon 940 Beau Drive Des Plaines Illinois, 60016 tel: (708) 439-1679 I've got a Timex/Sinclair 1000 here with a 16K expander. It sits on top of my VIC 20 and like you, I do some BASIC on it now and then. I figure that if any of my 17 computers are going to give me 6 winning numbers for the LOTO 6/49 it will be the Timex. So that's my only project with it - a LOTO program. I also had a Timex 2068 at one point, but unfortunately I gave it away. (pity.. one should NEVER do that). -Ron Mitchell Home of the 8 bit Speed Freaks From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 12:11:24 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Schematics Message-ID: <19970316185450436.AAA121@computer-name> > I realize every piece of electronic equipment has a schematic published for > it, but I was inquiring whether the ones he was referring to were some that > were readily available, or if they were of the type that only a technician was > likely to have access to. They would be in local electronics stores, so I suppose they are, or were, readily available. Over the years, I did find Sams Computerfacts for the Atari 400, 800, 520ST, and a really strange one from Sears covering the 400 that seems to be for some kind of training. The front cover reads: NATIONAL | DIV. 3 Sears | SOURCE 637 COMPUTERS TRAINING | ATARI 79-03S-1 (That is suppose to be a framed square box on the left) I wonder what it means by "source 637"? It's definitely about the Atari 400 only. I would still like to get ones for the XL series, the other ST's and STe's, as well as the new Falcon. (I haven't really been looking that hard - I haven't finished my repair class yet) mhop@snip.net From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 12:23:55 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <19970316185450436.AAB121@computer-name> > The "TI-99/4A" was derived from the following: > > TI: Texas Instruments, of Course. > 99: A cute little number based on the "9900" microprocessor, > which the computer had as the CPU. This CPU was thought to be very powerfull for its time. Was it 16bit, while most of the others were 8bit? > 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? > A: The enhanced model of the "TI-99/4", which came out in 1981, > the 99/4 came out around 1978. Oh, I never knew there was a 99/4, I only heard of the 99/4A. Reminds me of when Atari enhanced their ST and came out with the STe. mhop@snip.net From BNICALEK at aol.com Sun Mar 16 13:06:31 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970316140626_1848371460@emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 14:02:04 EST, you write: << This CPU was thought to be very powerfull for its time. Was it 16bit, while most of the others were 8bit? >> Yes, the TI was the FIRST 16-Bit Computer ever manufactured. TI invented the integrated circuit, the microprocessor, and the microcomputer, altogether. Being first was their tradition. Who knows if it still is? The TI-99/4A beat IBM just before IBM's PC got popular. TI had a lot of marketing troubles throughout the 4+ years they tried to market their machine. This is why we're not running everything on a 64-bit TI machine! Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Mar 16 13:43:56 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> At 01:23 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >> 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? >If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? Ummm... If y'all don't mind the extra added crazyness, The TI-99/4 was *not* the first model! There was a TI-99/2! I do know that there were prototypes made of this machine, and I _believe_ it actually made it into limited production, but on that note I'm not really sure. I remember seeing a picture of one on the web.... I'll go back to lurking on this thread until I can find the exact reference again... might take me a while! Cya l8r, Roger "Merch" Merchberger Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 16 15:40:16 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <332e684b.6341475@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:43:56 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:23 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? >>If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? > >Ummm... If y'all don't mind the extra added crazyness, The TI-99/4 was >*not* the first model! There was a TI-99/2! > >I do know that there were prototypes made of this machine, and I _believe_ >it actually made it into limited production, but on that note I'm not >really sure. > Yes, there was a 99/2 but it came AFTER the 99/4! (Don't try to make sense of anything TI did related to computers) _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 16 16:03:17 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703141641.JAA17308@calico.litterbox.com>; from "Jim" at Mar 14, 97 9:41 am Message-ID: <199703162203.23929@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > Ooo.. "Peanut" (PCJr) keyboards. Anyone have a spare? to sell? anyone know if > the IR format is documented anywhere? (gleams of having one to talk to my > palmtop with in my eyes) I bought a PC-jr for \pounds 10.00 (about $15) at a radio rally (hamfest) last month. It was complete with the chicklet keyboard, but alas the transformer unit (mains in, 17V AC out) was missing. I 'phoned IBM, and amazingly the technical reference was still available, and cost \pounds 45-ish. So I ordered it. It's a very good manual, with schematics of the motherboard, RAM card, modem, disk controller, IR receiver, modem (the only option I don't have), printer port, ROM cartridge, PSU, CGA monitor, etc. There's also a commented source of the ROM BIOS, and (appropriate to the above question) the format of the IR keyboard data. The keyboard schematic is not in the manual, and nor is the source code for the 80C48 microcontroller in the keyboard. But it should be possible to use another IR transmitter with the PC-jr (or converserly to use the PC-jr keyboard with another machine). From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 16 16:14:16 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: ; from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 13, 97 4:37 pm Message-ID: <199703162214.24208@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Greetings fellow old-computer enthusiasts. A few words about my interests. I'm mostly interested in 1970's minicomputers and early workstations - the sort of machine where the CPU is built up from a few 10's (or a few hundred) TTL chips. It's great fun to hook a logic analyser to the output of the ALU and watch the data being processed. That's something you can't (easily) do with a microcomputer. And there's a certain joy to single-stepping the microcode on a PDP11/45 and figuring out just how it executes some instructions. I'd love a machine built from discrete transistors, but nobody's offered me one yet. I have a couple of programmable calculators with no chips in them, but no complete computers. I try to keep clear of the early 1980's micors that used some kind of custom gate array (often in the video side). It's impossible to get spares, so fixing them is something of a problem. I do have a number of micros of that period using standard TTL chips, though. I do have some of the machines with custom gate arrays (Oric, Atari 400, etc), but I don't depend on them Since somebody else mentioned the PC-jr, does anyone have a list of all the PC-family models that existed? So far I've obtained the original PC, PC/XT, PC/AT (both versions of the motherboard), XT model 286, PC-jr, Portable PC (the 'sewing machine' case), and parts of a PC 3270. I know I'm missing the convertable (? - laptop, I think), PC/370, AT/370, and I'm not including the PS/2 range (yet!). I try to keep my machines in working order - restoring them is most of the fun, actually. And I use them for real work - in fact I don't think I own a computer that would fit in on this list :-) Am I unusual in that I also collect schematics and Technical manuals? I find them as valuable as the machines, and buy all I can find. I own them for machines I don't yet own, and possibly never will own. But they're interesting to read none-the-less. Incidentally, I am looking for a (copy?) of the XT model 286 motherboard schematic - that's the only one of the original TechRefs that IBM can no longer supply, and I have all the others. -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From BigLouS at aol.com Sun Mar 16 17:03:32 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) Lou From BNICALEK at aol.com Sun Mar 16 17:12:53 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970316181252_247205039@emout02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 16:44:26 EST, you write: << Yes, there was a 99/2 but it came AFTER the 99/4! (Don't try to make sense of anything TI did related to computers) >> The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were ever made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS interface. The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen. And to make things even more "crazier", the TI-99/8 was trailed by the TI-99/2. The 99/8 was also pre-production units only, about 150 only were ever made. More information on the 99/8 is available on the TI web sites. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From george.lin at documentum.com Sun Mar 16 19:33:39 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970316173339.00c001b4@lion.documentum.com> At 06:03 PM 3/16/97 -0500, BigLouS@aol.com wrote: >BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) You don't need a boot disk to run a 1541. The 1541 is a "smart" floppy disk drive. It has a 6502 CPU and all necessary firmware built-in for standalone operation. It works off the serial interface. I have even connected a 1541 to my PC's serial port for transferring files to my C64. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From george.lin at documentum.com Sun Mar 16 19:33:23 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970316140626_1848371460@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970316173323.00c001b4@lion.documentum.com> At 02:06 PM 3/16/97 -0500, BNICALEK@aol.com wrote: >The TI-99/4A beat IBM just before IBM's PC got popular. TI had a lot of >marketing troubles throughout the 4+ years they tried to market their >machine. This is why we're not running everything on a 64-bit TI machine! I think another problem with TI 99/4A is that TI did not encourage 3rd party software development. TI sold the machines at a loss in order to compete with the cheap 8-bit Ataris and Commodores. Naturally, TI wanted to recoup the money with high margin software sales. However, TI didn't understand that hardware success is intimately connected to software availability. TI software development efforts alone could never achieve the critical mass necessary to spark wide interest in, otherwise, an excellent machine. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From scott at cprompt.sk.ca Sun Mar 16 20:41:39 1997 From: scott at cprompt.sk.ca (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <199703170239.UAA28676@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca> > At 02:06 PM 3/16/97 -0500, BNICALEK@aol.com wrote: > I think another problem with TI 99/4A is that TI did not encourage 3rd > party software development. TI sold the machines at a loss in order to In fact, if I'm not mistaken, all machine language development for the TI 99/4(a) had to be done on one of TI's big expensive machines for the first (couple?) years. (ie, assembler was not available on the TI 99/4A.) At one time, I found an excellent history of TI's computer attempts on the web, but I can't seem to find it now. ttfn srw ------------------------------------------------------------ Walde Techonology http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca Box 7284 finger: scott@cprompt.sk.ca Saskatoon, SK S7K 4J2 email: scott@cprompt.sk.ca CANADA email: walde@dlcwest.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s:+>: a- C++++$ UL++++$ !P L++ E- W+++$ N+ o? K? w$ O- M-- V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP->++ t+ 5 X+ !R tv- b+ DI++++ D+ G e* h r++ y- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Sun Mar 16 21:01:22 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: People usually keep the disks and reformat them to be used on the newer system. In the cases of those upgrading to 3.5" from 5.25", the disks usually get thrown out and the computer stuck in a closet. When the computer is later sold, there is no software left to go with. You don't need a boot disk for a C64; its OS is right in ROM. To run the first program on a disk, press the RUN-STOP key and the C= key at the same time. To run another program on the disk, move the cursor to that program (PRG file) and type RUN in front of the name of the file. Delete any numbers or characters not in the name of the file and put ,8,1 or just ,8 (in some instances) after the filename and press Return. The program will run. Tony ------------------------ On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. > > BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) > > Lou > From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 20:39:56 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <19970317030737721.AAA156@computer-name> > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. Some people throw it out. They develop bad sectors. The kids use the disks for frizzbees. They can't upload the game disks because the disks are copy protected. If the protection is broken, questions of legality arise as to who owns the copywrite, then they still don't get uploaded. Disk librarians try to keep as many disks as space allows, but disks develop bad sectors over the years when they are not accessed regularly. These are some of the reasons.. mhop@snip.net From BNICALEK at aol.com Sun Mar 16 21:13:06 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970316220959_1150471781@emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 21:45:29 EST, you write: << In fact, if I'm not mistaken, all machine language development for the TI 99/4(a) had to be done on one of TI's big expensive machines for the first (couple?) years. (ie, assembler was not available on the TI 99/4A.) At one time, I found an excellent history of TI's computer attempts on the web, but I can't seem to find it now. >> You may be referring to the "TI Home Computer Guideline", by Bill Gaskill. It's on the web in several TI sites (i.e., Polivka, & others)... TI did write literally all of the code of a "big expensive machine" for its 99/4 and /4A programs, except one and only - the Hopper game. Hopper was TI's first and only entertainment game written on the TI for the TI. Bryan From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Sun Mar 16 21:31:42 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? (fwd) Message-ID: Following up to my own message; I don't know where my brain is tonight :-) You have to LOAD the program not RUN with the instructions below for running a single file. Then type RUN. I'm so used to the FastLoad cartridge. :-) Tony ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:01:22 -0400 From: Tony Cianfaglione To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Where does the software go? People usually keep the disks and reformat them to be used on the newer system. In the cases of those upgrading to 3.5" from 5.25", the disks usually get thrown out and the computer stuck in a closet. When the computer is later sold, there is no software left to go with. You don't need a boot disk for a C64; its OS is right in ROM. To run the first program on a disk, press the RUN-STOP key and the C= key at the same time. To run another program on the disk, move the cursor to that program (PRG file) and type RUN in front of the name of the file. Delete ^^^ type LOAD not RUN here. any numbers or characters not in the name of the file and put ,8,1 or just ,8 (in some instances) after the filename and press Return. The program will run. Tony ------------------------ On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. > > BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) > > Lou > From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 16 22:43:20 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? References: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <332CCBE8.9EA@goldrush.com> BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. > > BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) > > Lou I think sometimes the disks get relabeled and reused on the owner's new machines. It also may depend on the thrift store, disk software and program manuals may mean nothing to a thrift store employee, sometimes I've seen a batch of disks in a package in one part of the store, manuals for them in another and the computer components and cables priced seprate in other locations. Sometimes I only see hardware and no software (they may just toss the disks). I'm getting pretty good at Thrift shopping, if I see one piece of equipment or peripheral that remotely relates to my collection, I will scour the store. Example: I see a PET computer or drive or printer - first a quick check for computers, drives, printers, then IEEE-488 cables and interfaces, PET books, disks, and very important - don't forget datasette tapes (One day I'll find the mother lode of Cursor Magazine tapes!) Don't forget the ribbons, some of those printer ribbons are hard to find - or expensive as heck. I have a good idea of what I have and am looking for, I know the ports and video standards of my machines and pretty well what stuff is/was available for them. Be prepared! The 64 never needed a boot disk. Though there was the 1541 test/demo usually packed with the drive. And then later on the 64 did have a 'new' disk based OS, GEOS. My wife another collector of things (other then computers) also is an advocate to act as ignorant as you can when buying a real find, If you see an MITS Altair, don't go and snatch it up and rush for the register, pick it up and look at it scratch your head, wander around a bit carrying it (check out the other computers or whatever against it), and don't act as if is the 'holy grail' of your collection that it really is. (this is VERYimportant at flea markets where prices aren't on the stuff.) Another idea is to say something like 'what is it?' or 'can I hook this up to my 386?', 'can it run Lotus?' 'can this get me on the information-highway?' to prove that you know little about computers and also hopefully devalue it when he/she says 'no' or 'I don't know' (this may backfire if they think you are a real rube and try to play on your ignorance.) Make a real-low offer and say you'll take your chances. If they are somewhat sales-savvy you may have haggle up to a still low price. :-) Larry Anderson From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 17 04:34:14 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970316181252_247205039@emout02.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 BNICALEK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-03-16 16:44:26 EST, you write: > > << Yes, there was a 99/2 but it came AFTER the 99/4! (Don't try to make > sense of anything TI did related to computers) > >> > > The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were ever > made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of > peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS interface. > The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very > portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen. Actually, if you can find the May 1983 issue of Popular Science, there's a two-page ad for the 99/2 inside the front cover. The first of these pages is a photograph of Bill Cosby holding the 99/2 in front of him. The advertising text starts with "Under $100. Meet the lowest priced, 16-bit computer available." The machine was supposed to come with 4K, had a 48-key keyboard, and had a "Quality, flicker-free black and white display". One of these days I'll have the guts to cut up some magazines and have some of these cool old ads laminated. Too bad I have so little wall space. +--Fan of The Prisoner & Babylon 5--Citizen of the Republic of Baie d'Urfé--+ |Doug Spence // A1200 This space unintentionally | |ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca \X/ A1000 left blank | +--Beginning Microcomputer Collector----------PowerMonger Territories: 112--+ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 17 05:03:35 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Montreal collectors? Message-ID: Greetings, everyone! I'm wondering if there are any other computer collectors from the Montreal region out there? The reason I ask is that I've never actually met anyone else with these interests around here, and it would be fun (and probably educational, too :) ) to get together with some other people who fill all their closet space with old computer junk. Also, it'd be nice to find some better computer hunting grounds, if anyone is willing to give such information away. My usual haunt has become unbelievably dry in the past few months (though I did find a functional but damaged Kaypro II last week), and living way out here in the West Island, with no car, I'm not that able to spook around downtown as much as I'd like. (And BTW, anyone else had the misfortune of having to carry something like the Kaypro home via public transit at rush hour? The machine got a lot of interested stares, but boy did my arms hurt when I got home!) Anyway, a big "Hello" to everyone on the list. +--Fan of The Prisoner & Babylon 5--Citizen of the Republic of Baie d'Urfé--+ |Doug Spence // A1200 This space unintentionally | |ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca \X/ A1000 left blank | +--Beginning Microcomputer Collector----------PowerMonger Territories: 112--+ From BigLouS at aol.com Mon Mar 17 08:50:16 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Montreal collectors? Message-ID: <970317095015_-1036476704@emout13.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 06:07:12 EST, you write: > (And BTW, anyone else had the misfortune of having to carry something > like the Kaypro home via public transit at rush hour? The machine got a > lot of interested stares, but boy did my arms hurt when I got home!) Yes, except I used a luggage cart (I'm not as strong as I used to be) . Strange thing was that no one seemed to notice. Lou From ekman at lysator.liu.se Mon Mar 17 09:11:22 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I was given a VIC-20 by a friend some time ago. Naturally, there was no software with it. A few days later I visited a thrift shop and passed a rack of old cassette tapes, going for SEK 2 (about $ 0.25) each. I looked at them for a few seconds, decided that there was nothing worth having but just as I was turning away something caught my eye. I looked again and there, amongst heaps of 70's and 80's pop stars, were three original VIC-20 games. A closer look also revelaed some pirated C64 games. I dunno, but maybe this is what happens to a lot of cassettes: They get bundled with music cassettes and are either thrown out or put on sale separately from the computers. /F From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 17 09:42:34 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <332CCBE8.9EA@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson & Diane Hare" at Mar 16, 97 08:43:20 pm Message-ID: <199703171542.KAA13551@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Larry Anderson & Diane Hare once stated: > > My wife another collector of things (other then computers) also is an > advocate to act as ignorant as you can when buying a real find, If you > see an MITS Altair, don't go and snatch it up and rush for the register, > pick it up and look at it scratch your head, wander around a bit > carrying it (check out the other computers or whatever against it), and > don't act as if is the 'holy grail' of your collection that it really > is. (this is VERYimportant at flea markets where prices aren't on the > stuff.) I attended a very disapointed auction this Saturday. Disapointing not because of the selection (hundreds of computers) but because of the way it was held and because of Bidder #431 (and his partner, #51), who ended up with the majority of the auction. The auction was held at FAU (Florida Atlantic University) in Boca Raton (right across the street from IBM - lots of PCs available). Unfortunately, you had computers in one section, monitors in another, and keyboards in a third. There were complete systems, but they were in the minority than majority. Dozens of Apple ][s, about four Apple ][c (only two ][c monitors, #431 got ALL the Apples), possibly three or four dozen Macs (mostly SEs and Classics) and almost 20 HP workstations (what I was after). Several large VAXen and an IBM Series 1. Of course, I didn't get the HPs, as #431 (and his partner) got them. I seriously doubt that he even knew (not that he cared really - he seems overly bored by the whole auction) what he got - proprietary hardware that really only runs Unix (not that they would even boot - the system disks were wiped before the CSE [1] department had them carted off), their monitors, which are large fixed frequency and only usable on the HPs, and their keyboards. When asked about them, they both said not to talk to them that day, but call them later, when they figure out what they have (and charge an arm and a leg for them no doubt). Okay, so I'm bitter 8-/ I may have also damaged my chances at buying the stuff from him cheaply as I went as high as $200 for the HP units (the computers themselves, not including the monitors (sold in a different lot) and keyboards (another lot, mixed in with keyboards from PCs, Mac, terminals and whatnot). Sigh. Be wary of auctions. > Another idea is to say something like 'what is it?' or 'can I hook > this up to my 386?', 'can it run Lotus?' 'can this get me on the > information-highway?' to prove that you know little about computers and > also hopefully devalue it when he/she says 'no' or 'I don't know' (this > may backfire if they think you are a real rube and try to play on your > ignorance.) Make a real-low offer and say you'll take your chances. If > they are somewhat sales-savvy you may have haggle up to a still low > price. :-) I did get a Digital VT320 (or VT330) terminal from one guy (the keyboard was in another lot - that guy gave me the keyboard!). I told him I was interested in the terminal, I'll give you $15. He said $20. I told him there wasn't a keyboard with it. He said pick a keyboard and take the terminal for $20. So I got two VT320 keyboards (from the other guy) for free, one IBM PC keyboard (the only maker of decent keyboards IMHO) and a terminal for $20. I also bought another IBM PCAT keyboard for $5. From another guy I got (for $20): Wyse terminal (sans keyboard) IBM PC (original) IBM PCXT (original) 2 286 clones (one with a general purpose I/O board!) 386 clone (Zenith - with a strange controller card) IBM EGA monitor 7 Mono/CGA monitors, some from IBM All seem in working order (haven't actually tested them yet, but the PCs look fine). The keyboards, the terminals, the EGA monitor and the 386 I'm keeping, but if anyone is interested in the other equipment, I'll be willing to sell them (like I need another 8 monitors 8-) -spc (I'm calling #431 later today about the HPs ... ) [1] Computer Science and Engineering From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 17 09:52:12 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703162214.24208@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> from "A.R. Duell" at Mar 16, 97 10:14:16 pm Message-ID: <199703171552.KAA13609@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great A.R. Duell once stated: > > Greetings fellow old-computer enthusiasts. > > Since somebody else mentioned the PC-jr, does anyone have a list of all > the PC-family models that existed? So far I've obtained the original PC, > PC/XT, PC/AT (both versions of the motherboard), XT model 286, PC-jr, > Portable PC (the 'sewing machine' case), and parts of a PC 3270. I know > I'm missing the convertable (? - laptop, I think), PC/370, AT/370, and I'm > not including the PS/2 range (yet!). Don't forget about the PC RT machines, the first RISC based machines. Not a bad machine, but in a strange twist of logic, it's the only IBM PC to have a reset button - running an OS that needs to be shut down (Unix) else you'll currupt the filesystem! And yes, the IBM convertable was a lap top computer. Not a bad machine at all. A friend of mine had one (his father worked at IBM Boca Raton - home of the IBM PC). > I try to keep my machines in working order - restoring them is most of the > fun, actually. And I use them for real work - in fact I don't think I own > a computer that would fit in on this list :-) Well, I've used the the Tandy 6000 I have for working out a budget (since it comes with Multiplan). > Am I unusual in that I also collect schematics and Technical manuals? I > find them as valuable as the machines, and buy all I can find. No, I try to do the same thing. I also try to learn the assembly language for each computer as well (let's see - I know 6809, 68000, 80x88, VAX, MIPS, and I can follow 8080/Z80 and 6502). I currently own the tech manuals for most of my machines. -spc (Have computer, will program) From kevan at motiv.co.uk Mon Mar 17 09:53:06 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <332e684b.6341475@smtp.ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> <332e684b.6341475@smtp.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199703171553.PAA22947@cream.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this URL: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-ti.html I have been searching for information about this machine for some time. I would like to know if it was a production version or some sort of custom job. Regards -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 17 10:17:48 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703171552.KAA13609@armigeron.com>; from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 17, 97 10:52 am Message-ID: <199703171617.21232@tw200.eng.cam.ac.uk> [IBM PC family] > Don't forget about the PC RT machines, the first RISC based machines. Not Err, that depends on how you define RISC :-). I thought there were some machines built from lots of small chips that would now be classed as RISC. When did the PC RT's come out? I know it was arround the time of the ARM (originally Acorn RISC Machine), but I'm not sure which was actually first. [...] > Well, I've used the the Tandy 6000 I have for working out a budget (since > it comes with Multiplan). That reminds me. I was given a Facit hand-cranked mechanical calculator a few weeks ago. The chairman of an (electronic) calculator club had been given 2 of them, so he passed one on to me ;-). It's in beautiful condition, and works fine. I must use it next time I have a bill to add up :-)... > > > Am I unusual in that I also collect schematics and Technical manuals? I > > find them as valuable as the machines, and buy all I can find. > > No, I try to do the same thing. I also try to learn the assembly language > for each computer as well (let's see - I know 6809, 68000, 80x88, VAX, MIPS, So do I. Lets see : 68000 (a bit), 6502, Z80, 8080, 8085, 8048, PIC16Cxx, PDP11, PDP8 (a bit), 6809, SC/MP, PERQ microcode, Saturn (HP's calculator processor), 80x86, etc... > -spc (Have computer, will program) -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From HamiJohn at aol.com Mon Mar 17 10:45:43 1997 From: HamiJohn at aol.com (HamiJohn@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317114542_1483792969@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 18:18:32 EST, Bryan Nicalek writes: > The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were ever > made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of > peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS interface. > The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very > portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen. The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from TI). John Hamilton hamijohn@aol.com "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" From HamiJohn at aol.com Mon Mar 17 10:45:56 1997 From: HamiJohn at aol.com (HamiJohn@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317114532_852897225@emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 14:37:42 EST, Roger Merchberger writes: > At 01:23 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? >> If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? > Ummm... If y'all don't mind the extra added crazyness, The TI-99/4 was > *not* the first model! There was a TI-99/2! The 99/4 & 99/4A were the first computers from TI. The 99/2 came out as a low end ($100) computer to compete with the Vic 20. There was a 99/8 planned (less than a 100 were built - a high end home machine) that never made it to the stores. Commodore's price wars (and TI's arrogance) killed the 99 line. Kind of ironic since it was TI that nearly killed Commodore years before in the calculator market! John Hamilton hamijohn@aol.com "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 13:23:21 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317142317_544816821@emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 05:36:45 EST, you write: << Actually, if you can find the May 1983 issue of Popular Science, there's a two-page ad for the 99/2 inside the front cover. The first of these pages is a photograph of Bill Cosby holding the 99/2 in front of him. The advertising text starts with "Under $100. Meet the lowest priced, 16-bit computer available." The machine was supposed to come with 4K, had a 48-key keyboard, and had a "Quality, flicker-free black and white display". One of these days I'll have the guts to cut up some magazines and have some of these cool old ads laminated. Too bad I have so little wall space. >> I'm going to research that Popular Science ad on a microfiche at our local library! Funny how TI can advertise and not actually get the product out there! Bryan bnicalek@aol.com From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 13:34:03 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317142757_-1672909509@emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 11:52:10 EST, you write: << The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from TI). >> Interesting, I thought it never did. But, they were extremely rare to find. Bryan bnicalek@aol.com From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Mar 17 12:46:02 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Apple Mac 128 Message-ID: <332D916A.610A@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, I just picked up a Mac 128 on Sunday. With an Imagewriter I, external drive, carrying case and manuals, etc. Had the manuals and the original Macwrite/Macpaint disks & manuals. Anybody know what the going price for one of these might be? I'd like to keep it but being a student forces me to sell off the valuable stuff and keep the cheapies. In other words, I need the money. I've seen 512's listed on auctionweb go for $60 and up but 128's are few and far between. None listed in Dejanews either. Any comments appreciated. I will probably put it in the auction in a few weeks, once I play with it a little. -- ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 17 13:45:53 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Weekend report Message-ID: Hit a couple of thrift stores this weekend. Here's the stuff I didn't pick up - if anyone wants any of it let me know and we can arrange something. 2 Commodore 64's (9.99 US$/ea) 1 Blue Chip 5.25" Disk Drive (7.99) ^Can anyone tell me what this is? 1 Apple 2c (9.99) 2 IBM PC's (19.95) 1 Commodore Cassete Drive (7.99) As for stuff I did pick up: 1 TI99/4A with no stuff - just the basic unit. I've never had a TI99/4A before so this should be fun. My main question is - what is the input voltage? I'm going to need to mod a power supply to it before I can get anywhere with it. Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics (Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. It has small blue rubber keys and a template with basic commands written all over it. It's about 30cm x 18cm x 4cm. On the back there are three ports labelled Print, Cass, and TV. It has a big cartridge slot (but came with no cartridge :(. I cracked it open to see what's on the board but it has a big shielding cage soldered all the way around the board edge and I just didn't have the time to tackle that. Plugged it in and attached it to a composite monitor but got nothing. The power light did come on. I'm guessing it probably doesn't operate without a cartridge. Any info on the thing would be much appreciated. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 13:59:39 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317142552_1083467704@emout08.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 10:57:55 EST, you write: << Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this URL: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-ti.html I have been searching for information about this machine for some time. I would like to know if it was a production version or some sort of custom job. Regards -- Kevan Kevan, If there is a serial number such as this, it was probably a limited-edition production version. I wouldn't envision it as a custom job. In fact it is probably worth lots of money, because it's the only one I've seen in my lifetime! Bryan bnicalek@aol.com From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 17 14:01:59 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: ; from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 17, 97 11:45 am Message-ID: <199703172001.9575@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics > (Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. I've heard of a thing called a Mattel Aquarius (or is it Matel?). This was a cheap (< \pounds 100.00) UK home computer sold in the early-mid 1980's. It had a blue rubber keyboard, and sounds something like your unit. I think it was Z80-based, probably with ROM basic. > It has small blue rubber keys and a template with basic commands > written all over it. It's about 30cm x 18cm x 4cm. On the back > there are three ports labelled Print, Cass, and TV. It has a big > cartridge slot (but came with no cartridge :(. I cracked it open > to see what's on the board but it has a big shielding cage soldered > all the way around the board edge and I just didn't have the time > to tackle that. Plugged it in and attached it to a composite > monitor but got nothing. The power light did come on. I'm guessing It may well be a TV RF output. I _think_ the UK version had a built-in UHF modulator for our channel 36, so I guess the US version outputs on your channel 3 or 4. Try connecting it to the aerial (antenna?) input of the TV and seeing what happens. > it probably doesn't operate without a cartridge. Any info on the > thing would be much appreciated. I thought it had a built-in ROM basic... > Bill Whitson -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 17 15:18:16 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: <199703172001.9575@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: > > Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics > > (Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. > > I've heard of a thing called a Mattel Aquarius (or is it Matel?). This was > a cheap (< \pounds 100.00) UK home computer sold in the early-mid 1980's. > It had a blue rubber keyboard, and sounds something like your unit. Yep- that's it. Once I knew it was a Mattel I was able to find a picture on the web. > It may well be a TV RF output. I _think_ the UK version had a built-in UHF > modulator for our channel 36, so I guess the US version outputs on your > channel 3 or 4. Try connecting it to the aerial (antenna?) input of the TV > and seeing what happens. If only I had a TV :). I guess I'm going to need to get one. > I thought it had a built-in ROM basic... I hope so. I really don't feel like I own a computer until I've written a BASIC program on it! Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 17 15:23:11 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: ; from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 17, 97 1:18 pm Message-ID: <199703172123.13409@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > It may well be a TV RF output. I _think_ the UK version had a built-in UHF > > modulator for our channel 36, so I guess the US version outputs on your > > channel 3 or 4. Try connecting it to the aerial (antenna?) input of the TV > > and seeing what happens. > > If only I had a TV :). I guess I'm going to need to get one. If you can remove that darn screening cover, you might find a composite video input on the modulator. Tap the signal off there and feed it to the monitor. > > > I thought it had a built-in ROM basic... > > I hope so. I really don't feel like I own a computer until I've > written a BASIC program on it! Please delete 'BASIC' from that :-). I'll agree you should have written at least one program for every machine you own, but a lot of my machines don't have BASIC interpretters available... > Bill Whitson -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 17 16:02:52 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: The Ultimate Classic Micro Message-ID: I saw this in comp.sys.tandy a few months back. I do not know the disposition of the system. I would love to have it myself, but it will be years before I could get the resources to properly open a facility such as it deserves. The Boston Computer Museum has no sense of _real_ history, IMAO. I did several of the mods Dennis described, both those for the TRS-80 Model One and for the Color Computer. Ward Griffiths ***** BEGIN INCLUDED TEXT ***** > Subject: Good Home For Custom TRS-80? > From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz > Date: 1996/11/17 > Message-Id: <328F9226.58D1@maltedmedia.com> > Newsgroups: comp.sys.tandy > > Hi, > > I am looking for a good home for the original *Custom TRS-80* ... my > model I about which the book was written 15 years ago. The Boston > Computer Museum isn't interested ... TRS-80s don't number among their > favorites, I was led to believe ... but I certainly would like to see it > in a public location with all its parts and modifications available, > plus copies of the books, disks, etc., original manuscripts and > programs, peripherals (speech synethesizer, expansion goodies) etc., > etc., and an LNW-80 clone! If the site was a really good one, I'd throw > in the CoCos and all their original mods, circuit card schematics, > negatives, and so on. > > Does anyone know where a good home might be found for this (other than > mine)? Please feel free to forward this post to anyone who might have an > idea ... I've kept all this stuff together, but am beginning to tire of > the fact that no one can see it. Those of you who recall the book and my > magazine columns can imagine what an odd collection it is! > > Best, > Dennis ***** END INCLUDED TEXT ***** From BigLouS at aol.com Mon Mar 17 17:19:20 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Weekend report Message-ID: <970317170224_-1371535880@emout07.mail.aol.com> I'd like the 2C if its not too much trouble. Regards, Lou Sommo From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 02:34:21 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 17-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >You don't need a boot disk to run a 1541. The 1541 is a "smart" floppy >disk drive. It has a 6502 CPU and all necessary firmware built-in for >standalone operation. It works off the serial interface. I have even >connected a 1541 to my PC's serial port for transferring files to my C64. George, That's interesting....how did you get the PC to actually handle the transfer to the floppy drive? What did you do in modifying a cable for the connection? It certainly would come in handy when one is FTPing programs off of the net and wants to transfer them to the C= 8bit machines! Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 02:20:33 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:53 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics >(Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. >It has small blue rubber keys and a template with basic commands >written all over it. It's about 30cm x 18cm x 4cm. On the back >there are three ports labelled Print, Cass, and TV. It has a big >cartridge slot (but came with no cartridge :(. I cracked it open >to see what's on the board but it has a big shielding cage soldered >all the way around the board edge and I just didn't have the time >to tackle that. Plugged it in and attached it to a composite >monitor but got nothing. The power light did come on. I'm guessing >it probably doesn't operate without a cartridge. Any info on the >thing would be much appreciated. Bill, It is a Mattel Aquarius, which was always produced by Radofin Elec. It boots into a subset of BASIC and plugs directly to a TV, generally through one of the game switch boxes most people used so they could switch between the input for the game and that of the antenna. Related to this, a company called 'The Aquarius Group', parent company Bentley Electronics out of Los Angeles, CA, marketed quite a few things for this little system. A thermal printer, data recorder, 16k and 32k RAM cartridges, and a miniexpander to allow you to have multiple cartridge ports, since both memory and software cartridges used this port. From the looks of thier little brochure, which is the only documentation I have with mine, it looks like most of thier software was written in LOGO, though there was an extended Basic available as well. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From george.lin at documentum.com Mon Mar 17 19:48:39 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970317174839.00f815e4@lion.documentum.com> At 01:34 PM 3/17/97 +0500, you wrote: >George, > > That's interesting....how did you get the PC to actually handle the >transfer to the floppy drive? What did you do in modifying a cable for the >connection? It certainly would come in handy when one is FTPing programs off >of the net and wants to transfer them to the C= 8bit machines! Jeff, I think a lot of us collect old machines not for the sake of collecting them but for the sake of actually running them. For me, running the old software and reading the old manuals let me relive my childhood days--the closest thing to riding in a time machine. However, you just don't find old software in thrift stores. But as you know, the net has an abundant supply of old software. How do you transfer them to your old machines? The method and utility software varies with different systems. For C64, I use an excellent utility called Star Commander by Joe Forster. You can download it at this URL: ftp://ftp.seattlelab.com/UTILS/sc073.zip Star Commander runs on your PC. You need a custom made cable to connect the 1541 to your PC's serial port. Star Commander's help file has the information on how to make the cable yourself. Once everything is connected and Star Commander is properly configured, you will see your PC's hard disk on one side and the 1541 directory listing on the other. You can copy or move files back and forth. It works just like Norton Commander. You can even format a C64 disk in the 1541! Star Commander can also create a real C64 disk from the tons of C64 disk images on the net. Disk images are primarily useful for people who play with computer emulators. But with the help of Star Commander, we can take advantage of them too. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Mon Mar 17 20:02:04 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <199703171553.PAA22947@cream.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be > confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" > > I have been searching for information about this machine for some time. > I would like to know if it was a production version or some sort of > custom job. I've never seen a beige case TI99/4A. All of the ones I have ever seen are silver. Tony From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 22:41:00 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Weekend report / Thrift stores Message-ID: <970317233913_1384942994@emout01.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 14:50:15 EST, you write: << 1 TI99/4A with no stuff - just the basic unit. I've never had a TI99/4A before so this should be fun. My main question is - what is the input voltage? I'm going to need to mod a power supply to it before I can get anywhere with it. >> Bill, Your best bet is to pick up a genuine TI transformer yourself. However, quoted from the TI transformer itself: INPUT: 120VAC 60HZ 40W OUTPUT: PINS 1,2: 18VAC, 18VA PINS 2,4: 8.5VAC, 1.28VA Hope this helps - by the way, did you get a beige or silver unit, and how much did you pay for it? Also, where are good thrift places to hit (other than Salvation Army), where you can go and pick up used computer stuff? Bryan bnicalek@aol.com or reply direct to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Mar 17 22:49:14 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970317174839.00f815e4@lion.documentum.com> Message-ID: One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] Enjoy! From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Mar 17 22:52:40 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: A1000 keyboards [again] Message-ID: Sorry to bug you guys again but after I post the original message, the system I use for E-mail crashed big-time and consequently, all my mail [40+ messages] from that day or so was lost. I know a few of you replied to the question and I would *really* appreciate it if you guys could kindly repost your replies, either personally to me or back on the mailing list. Thanks! Les From idavis at comland.com Mon Mar 17 22:02:30 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Atari Eprom Prgramming Message-ID: <199703180507.XAA23295@ds9.comland.com> Well, I borrowed an eprom burner from a friend and pulled apart some of my cartridges to see if I could copy one. I picked Atariwriter. Here's where the confusion comes in. I am not sure what kind of eprom the cartridge contains, so I read the left chip as a 2532, and as a 2732. I got two different sets of data. I pulled them both into a hex editor, hoping for a clue as to which on was the correct one, and they both had legible text that I could recognize from the cartridge. How in the heck can I tell which kind they are, or if I am even getting close. I copied both chips as 2732's and 2532's and made a set of 2732's with both sets of data, plugged them into the original board, and nothing. This is really frustrating. I am hoping that some one has done this at least once. This is my first time to use an eprom burner, and I don't have a clue, except what I have read, and divined from the eprom burner program. I don't want to sound desperate, but I am either barking up the wrong tree, or i'm in the wrong forest. Thanks for any help, and all of the help I have received so far. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Tue Mar 18 07:55:40 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is Little Red Reader a PC program or a CBM program? Do you run it on a PC and do all of the conversion there or on a C64? Tony ------------------------ On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: > > One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] > is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little > Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC > then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a > shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from > PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about > it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the > usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] > Enjoy! > > From CHEER at us.oracle.com Tue Mar 18 11:08:20 1997 From: CHEER at us.oracle.com (Christopher Heer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <199703181423.GAA28850@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> "Mr. Self Destruct" says: >One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] >is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little >Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC >then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a >shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from >PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about >it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the >usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] Waitaminute. Are you saying you can get a single-sided 1541 drive to read a PC- formatted disk? I'm impressed. Do you need to do anything special (like, say, format the disk single-sided)? -- Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 Fax: (312) 726-4635 Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas From idavis at comland.com Tue Mar 18 09:52:51 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Just browsing around Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970318155251.008ec7c0@mail.comland.com > I was just browsing around the web this morning, and I saw this on the Auction Web. DWP 410 daisy wheel printer, paralell interface for the TRS80. http://www.ebay.com/aw/item.cgi?item=oqb951 Seller's email: jruffco@adams.net I know that some of you collect TRS models, and this item hadn't been bid on, and the first bid was to start at $1.00. Also, the bidding ends today, so I thought I would put this out in case anyone is interested. You can occasionally find some good stuff on the auction web, but of course there's always that yahoo out there with $1 more than you. Hope this helps someone. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From groberts at mitre.org Tue Mar 18 10:07:56 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970318100301.00704ee8@postman> my undertanding is that these software-based solutions work only with the newer 1571's. the 1541 is hardware incompatible with normal PC floppys. This issue and hardware solutions (e.g. cables for hooking the 1541 to a PC) is all described nicely in the comp.sys.cbm news group and FAQ and more detailed questions are best fielded there. - glenn At 09:08 AM 3/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >"Mr. Self Destruct" says: > >>One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] >>is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little >>Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC >>then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a >>shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from >>PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about >>it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the >>usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] > >Waitaminute. > >Are you saying you can get a single-sided 1541 drive to read a PC- >formatted disk? I'm impressed. > >Do you need to do anything special (like, say, format the disk >single-sided)? >-- > Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation > Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 > Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 > Fax: (312) 726-4635 > Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas > > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From HamiJohn at aol.com Tue Mar 18 11:45:34 1997 From: HamiJohn at aol.com (HamiJohn@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <970318124525_-1773162331@emout19.mail.aol.com> In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane over and over again! I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as: Name/Model Manufacturer Date released/stopped RAM/ROM included Languages included Ports included Peripherals offerred etc. Of course the exact categories need to be decided by discussion on this mail list. And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly). Finally, an "expert" committee for those items "in dispute"! Well ... what do you think? John Hamilton hamijohn@aol.com "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" From MTapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 18 00:31:30 1997 From: MTapley at swri.edu (MTapley@swri.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: John, Sounds like fun! I'd like to see a bit more comprehensive listing - each category may not need to be filled in for every computer, but if you start by defining a comprehensive list at the outset, at least all the entries will end up consistent. I'd like to see a list comprehensive enough that I can take it to a garage sale and know how I can use the box I find there. Also, remember that as time moves on, more and more capable machines will become "classic". My NeXT will be right in there in 4 more years or so.... :-) Things I'd like to add to the list in any case: Output device/resolution CPU type/speed Mass Storage (floppies, tapes, hard drives) Operating System(s) Things that may or may not belong on the list: Important Available Software (word proc, telecom, spreadsheet, etc.) Known Current Vendors/supporters Benchmark speed (a la Byte Magazine's Seive Benchmark) Neat things to be able to do with the list (or database): Sort by OS Sort by CPU Sort by date available Sort by Manufacturer Sort by Model Name A sample (not necessarily complete or correct) listing for my classic: Name/Model Rainbow 100A/B/+ Manufacturer Digital Equipment Corporation Date released/stopped 1983(?)-1986(?) CPU Z-80/4 MHz + 8088/4.8 (?) MHz RAM/ROM included 128k/32k(?) (RAM up to 832k (100A) or 896k (100B)) Output Device VR-201 (mono) or VR-241 (color) monitor; avail. graphics to 792 x 240 x 8 bits (?) Ports included 2*RS-232 (printer, modem); video/keyboard Mass Storage 2 or 4 * 400k 5.25" floppy; avail. MFM Hard Disk < 80M Peripherals offerred LA-50, LA-100 Printers Modem (any RS-232) ... Operating System CP/M-80; CP/M-86/80; MS-DOS 2.0, 2.11, 3.10b; VENIX(?) Languages included none (avail. Basic, C, Pascal, ...) (need versions) Important Software Kermit; Lotus 1-2-3; WordPerfect; WordStar (need vsn. numbers) Benchmark Speed ? Known Current Support ? >And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly). Not me. But I hope somebody can! - Mark From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 14:38:32 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <970318124525_-1773162331@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 HamiJohn@aol.com wrote: > In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane > over and over again! Yeah, this is a lot of fun, and I'm surprised with the amount of traffic. > I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic > computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as: > > Name/Model > Manufacturer > Date released/stopped > RAM/ROM included > Languages included > Ports included > Peripherals offerred > etc. Actually, I started something like this on my own two or three years ago, using a format I found in an old Computing Now! magazine from 1983 that had a (VERY basic) roundup of ... 40 systems or so? (I can't verify this as I'm sitting at a terminal in the university, not at home with all my stuff.) I started collecting info on any machine I could get info about, and I was putting it all into an AmigaGuide document. It was sorted by company and sometimes by series as well. Unfortunately, there was tons of unverifiable data in this list and I never got around to entering a lot of the stuff I *could* verify. I also wanted to collect pictures of the systems and link them in, but I don't have a scanner and its hard to find pictures of a lot of these things. I haven't touched that list in ages. I'm not even sure where I stored it now. :) I ran out of time for this kind of thing, and after a while I realized that I could get a lot of the info I was typing in off the net (for the more common systems) and basically gave up. If I were doing it now, I think I'd just grab peoples' web pages and link them together into a huge local document. Probably eat up a good portion of a zip disk. I was typing up reviews from magazines, too. I tried to list my sources so that I could go back later to see where the wrong info came from. :) I had to read between the lines a lot. > Of course the exact categories need to be decided by discussion on this mail > list. > And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly). > Finally, an "expert" committee for those items "in dispute"! > > Well ... what do you think? I think it's a damn fine idea. It would be great to have a resource like that available, and it would be fun to construct it. > John Hamilton > hamijohn@aol.com > "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Mar 18 14:42:53 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Mar 18, 97 03:38:32 pm Message-ID: <199703182042.NAA08101@calico.litterbox.com> Of course, this database needs to be written on something like foxbase for the commodore 64 or the database in GSWorks. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 14:49:42 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Montreal collectors? In-Reply-To: <970317095015_-1036476704@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-03-17 06:07:12 EST, you write: > > > (And BTW, anyone else had the misfortune of having to carry something > > like the Kaypro home via public transit at rush hour? The machine got a > > lot of interested stares, but boy did my arms hurt when I got home!) > > Yes, except I used a luggage cart (I'm not as strong as I used to be) . > Strange thing was that no one seemed to notice. Well, oddly enough I've never noticed anyone noticing any of the other things I've been carrying on busses and metros. So far only the Kaypro has received stares. Perhaps it's because of the "industrial" look to it, with only some ports visible on the top. Everything else I've carried has either been boxed, or had obvious keyboards on them. The Kaypro II, was actually fairly easy to carry, compared to some other stuff I've transported home in that manner, but I guess that's the point of the "transportable" computers. :) I think the computer I had the worst time carrying home via public transit was the Apple //e... with disk drive, manuals, some software, and some VIC-20 cartridges and a C= 1351 mouse for good measure. Try putting all of that in a plastic bag and handling it elegantly in a crowded bus. :) Maybe someone should compile "Computer Collection Horror Stories". :) > > Lou Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 14:58:13 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > I dunno, but maybe this is what happens to a lot of cassettes: They get > bundled with music cassettes and are either thrown out or put on sale > separately from the computers. I suspect that this does happen quite frequently. I do look through the music cassettes now at the Salvation Army shop I go to since I found "Drop Zone" (lame) for the VIC-20 in there once. I also found a few cartridges amongst the 8-Trak tapes. Big orange cartridges for the Fairchild Channel 'F'. I've never seen one of those game systems, but when I do finally find one I have five cartridges to plug into it. > /F Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 15:03:40 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <199703171553.PAA22947@cream.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Hi, > > Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be > confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" > and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this > URL: I haven't looked at your picture (I'm typing on a VT320 terminal) but I've only ever seen a beige-cased 99/4A *once*, and sadly I didn't collect it. There were literally dozens of silver TI-99/4As at the Salvation Army shop I go to a couple of years ago, before they cleaned the place up and presumably tossed all those machines (and about half as many Color Computers) into the garbage. Perhaps the case of the 4A varies with locale? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 15:07:41 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970317114542_1483792969@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 HamiJohn@aol.com wrote: > The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex > bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from > TI). Fascinating. I thought only a few hundred prototypes were made. Sort of like the famous "C65" machines. Does anyone else here have a TI-99/2? > John Hamilton > hamijohn@aol.com > "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Mar 18 15:10:15 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) Message-ID: I just had to forward this to the list because I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read it. BTW, Welcome to the list Hans! I don't know if I'am a collector, but I'm intrested in old micro ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My actual junk yard includes: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Computers: CBM 2001, CBM SK 8296D, CBM 3016, VC-20, C-64, ITT MP-Experimerter, SC/MP II, EUROCOM I, APPLE ][euro+, APPLE ///, Lisa 2, Basis 108, Ohio Superboard II, TRS 80 Mod I Lv2 & Expansion, Video-Genie, Olivetti M10, IBM-PC, IBM-PC/XT Clone, SIRIUS 1, OSBORNE 1DQD, ATARI 400, ATARI 800, ATARI 6700XL, ATARI 800XL, ATARI ST 520+, ORIC 1, ORIC ATMOS, Amiga 2000, Sinclair ZX80 & ZX81, Your Computer, MEMO TEST, Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, Yashica YC-64, Sony HiBit (both MSX I), S100-Bus System, Eltec 80, SANYO MB 1000, Sharp MZ80A, Sharp MZ80B, Sharp MZ80K, SWTP, Motorola MEK6802D5, EXORterm (...), ca. 15 additional 6800, 6802 & 6809 Boards, ENTERPRISE 128, TA Alphatronic PC, SIEMENS Mikroset 8080, SIEMENS 5521, SIEMENS PC 16-10, *_SIEMENS PC-D_* (Best DOS computer ever build), SIEMENS PC-MX (9780), SIEMENS PC-MX2, several 486 Clone, Pentium. Terminals: TI Silent 700, TI Silent 709, Whisper Reader Mod 1951, SIEMENS 97801 (green & white), SIEMENS 97801-2, SIEMENS 97808, EECO D400, Heazeltine 1000. Pocket Calculators: Sharp PC 1211, PC 1241, PC 1250, PC 1251, PC 1261, additional 14 non-Basic. Video Games: ATARI XL, ATARI Jaguar, ATARI Lynx, VCS 2600. All but two in running condition. mfg Hans ,-----------------------------------, ! Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut ! '-----------------------------------' From ekman at lysator.liu.se Tue Mar 18 15:15:52 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Little Red Reader In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] > is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little > Red Reader. I haven't actually used LRR myself, but I think a few clarifications are in order: The program requires C128 and either 1571 or 1581 model disk drive(s) to work. I don't remember if it requires two drives or if you can use it with just one. It is also not shareware but freeware. There IS a program which basically does the same thing with a C64 and 1541. It works by formatting a disk so that it can be read by both a 1541 and PC DD floppy drive. You must have a special program on both systems to read and write this disk. Don't remember what it's called, but I could probably find out if anyone is interested enough. /F From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Mar 18 15:25:50 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Weekend report / Thrift stores In-Reply-To: <970317233913_1384942994@emout01.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: > Bill, > > Hope this helps - by the way, did you get a beige or silver unit, and how > much did you pay for it? It's a beige, plastic unit with no "black areas" (that is, base and cart area are beige). I paid $2.99. > Also, where are good thrift places to hit (other than Salvation Army), where > you can go and pick up used computer stuff? I find that pawn shops are often as good as thrift stores. To be honest I've gotten most of my stuff by leaving my number at small computer shops and asking them to call me if they pick up old junk in trade. Usually they either charge me $10 for anything they get or they just call me and ask me to haul it off before they junk it. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 15:31:26 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > I just had to forward this to the list because I almost fell > out of my chair laughing when I read it. BTW, Welcome to the > list Hans! Yes, welcome Hans! I hope I don't bother you too much if I comment on something in the list that Bill forwarded. :) > Computers: > Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?). Now, the Laser 3000 is quite an interesting beast for what is supposed to be an Apple compatible system. Do the Laser 50 and Laser 2000 have custom hardware as well? Do you have documentation for your Laser systems? I still haven't managed to figure out all of the extended BASIC commands. How about disk drives? I'm forced to use cassette because the disk drive didn't get to me. Assuming the 2000 is similar to the 3000, can a standard Apple disk drive be interface to the machine somehow? > All but two in running condition. > > mfg > Hans > > ,-----------------------------------, > ! Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut ! > '-----------------------------------' That's an extremely long and interesting list, Hans. I've never even heard of quite a few of those machines, and I've never seen most of the others. There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental computer trade route. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 18 15:34:31 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <333009a8.3168348@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:03:40 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > >On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be >> confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" >> and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this >> URL: > >I haven't looked at your picture (I'm typing on a VT320 terminal) but >I've only ever seen a beige-cased 99/4A *once*, and sadly I didn't >collect it. There were literally dozens of silver TI-99/4As at the >Salvation Army shop I go to a couple of years ago, before they cleaned >the place up and presumably tossed all those machines (and about >half as many Color Computers) into the garbage. Perhaps the case of the >4A varies with locale? > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > No, the beige version was mass-produced and available nationally. I found a couple for a friend last summer. Their only real benefit was a reduced-heat power supply, it worked identically to the prevalent black-and-silver version. _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Mar 18 15:44:17 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <970318124525_-1773162331@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 HamiJohn@aol.com wrote: > In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane > over and over again! > I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic > computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as: One step ahead of me already! When I was playing with the potential ClassicCmp web site last night I set aside an area for a project like this. If people are interested I'll be happy to collect and compile listings and post them up. Be aware that 1. I am the world worst HTML scripter and 2. I do all ClassicCmp work on my break. So, it will be ugly and slowly put together ;). If anyone is interested - the ClassicCmp site is: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html Currently there's nothing on the site but some FAQs I've gathered together. Later,Bill Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From BNICALEK at aol.com Tue Mar 18 17:51:19 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Thrift Stores Message-ID: <970318184026_544991043@emout09.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-18 16:42:06 EST, you write: << I find that pawn shops are often as good as thrift stores. To be honest I've gotten most of my stuff by leaving my number at small computer shops and asking them to call me if they pick up old junk in trade. Usually they either charge me $10 for anything they get or they just call me and ask me to haul it off before they junk it. >> Bill, If you happen to get anything for the TI, I'd be interested in purchasing it (like your $2.99 console for example!) Maybe you could contact me first to let me know what's in stock. That would be helpful. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From mhop at snip.net Tue Mar 18 16:03:09 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam "Super" something Message-ID: <19970318223110905.AAE182@computer-name> A friend of mine found a Coleco Adam "Super" system, or something like that, and was wondering how to operate the tape drive. I remember the tape was fast. It looked like a standard audio tape but would spin like it was in fast forward, and would be loading level 2, while you were still playing level 1. Anyway, he says he is stuck in a typewriter mode and doesn't know how to get out. I remember this mode too, but it's been so long I don't remember either. Anyone? mhop@snip.net From bboys at mcja.com Tue Mar 18 18:04:19 1997 From: bboys at mcja.com (Brian Boys) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Compaq Model III, anyone? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970319000419.00719378@mail.mcja.com> Would anyone like to have (ie, for FREE) a Compaq Model III? It's one of those newfangled 286s, but it does have a cool fold-out LCD screen. The 5 1/2 floppy works but the hard drive is doubtful. If you're interested e-mail me to figure out how to get it to you. Brian bboys@mcja.com From dcobley at island.net Tue Mar 18 18:27:39 1997 From: dcobley at island.net (David Cobley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam "Super" something Message-ID: <199703190027.QAA18306@norm.island.net> At 05:03 PM 3/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >A friend of mine found a Coleco Adam "Super" system, or something like >that, and was wondering how to operate the tape drive. I remember the tape >was fast. It looked like a standard audio tape but would spin like it was >in fast forward, and would be loading level 2, while you were still playing >level 1. Anyway, he says he is stuck in a typewriter mode and doesn't know >how to get out. I remember this mode too, but it's been so long I don't >remember either. Anyone? > > mhop@snip.net I don't know about an Adam super system but I founded and ran an Adam Users Group, and edited a regular Adam Newsletter for many years so maybe I can help. There are other Adam interested users on this List. First let me describe the Adam tape drive, which was officially called a Digital Datadrive and the specially formatted digital cassettes were called Digital Datapacks. The data was transferred to/from the CPU and recorded on the tape in digital format. The read/write tape speed was 20 inches per second and the transiting was 80 inches per second. Compare that with the regular cassette recorder which has a tape speed of 1 and 3/8" per second. Hence the need for good quality tapes. Regular commercial support for Adam still exists in the US and Canada. If your friend has the keyboard and the printer, which included the system power supply, he should connect all three together and connect the video output TV terminal to a standard TV (Channel 3 or 4 depending on the position of the selector switch on the rear of the CPU). Then switch on the system with the on-off switch at the rear of the printer, and if he gets the "Electronic Typewriter screen, all he needs to do is press the Escape key once and he's into a proprietary word processor called SmartWriter. For this there is no requirement to have a tape in the drive. It comes on an Eprom. If he, or anyone else needs further help with the Coleco Adam, sent me e-mail at my e-mail address and I'll gladly help as much as I can. I still have my original Adam sitting in its workstation, but its been modified somewhat. As well as its two original datadrives it now boasts a 320k 5.25" floppy drive, a 1.44 meg 3.5" f;loppy, a 40 meg IDE hard drive, 1 meg of RAM and produces video on either a composite colour monitor or a Wyse 50 terminal, depending on which of the four available operating systems I'm using. With two serial ports and one parallel port. Cheers. David Cobley. Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech and Hewlett-Packard Echoes. Internet-dcobley@mail.island.net, or, davidc@macn.bc.ca From rws at ais.net Tue Mar 18 22:51:57 1997 From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Hello In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I guess I'd might as well send my 'hello' to everyone on the list, and "advertise" my collection. I'm mostly into early personal microcomputers, say 1976-1986. I just started collecting a couple of years ago, so there are still a lot of big holes in my list. Here it is: IBM PC 3*IBM PC XT IBM PC AT IBM PCjr Compaq Plus AT&T PC 6300 Compuadd 220 Tandy 1000HX Tandy TRS-80 Mod. 1, 2, 3 3*TI-99/4A Tandy CoCo 1, 2, 3 2*Timex Sinclair 1000 Timex Sinclair 2068 Point Four Mark 3 (minicomputer) Netronics Elf II Intel iPDS-100 Intel SDK-51 and SDK-2920 Kaypro II HP 9825B HP-85B 3*TI 32010EVM Compupro CPU68K-816 Microlink STD-145 Motorola M68HC16Z1EVB (these last three sit in idle storage because I have no idea what to do with them, but they were free) HP model 46 calculator Magnavox Odyssey2 12 Multibus CPU cards - 8080, 8086, 8088, 80188, 80186, and 80286 a whole mess of Multibus I/O, memory, disk controllers, etc. Intel 86/310 and Teradyne (something-or-other) Multibus chassis Hazeltine 1420, Zenith Z-29, Wyse WY-50, and 3*Data General terminals Printers! NEC Spinwriter, 2*Tandy DMP-130, Tandy DWP-210, Anadex DP-6500, Timex Sinclair 2040, several DMP's parts, parts, parts and if you'll consider it, 80 Darome Model 730 speakerphones, which used an 8031/8155 to control some latches controlling quad bilateral switches controlling impedance matching. These things were meant to be modified! Well, that's my list. I'm looking forward to lengthing it at a hamfest this Sunday. Incidentally, would anyone know if Anadex is still in business, or if I could find a manual for my DP-6500 printer through another source? This thing has about 30 DIP switches on it, and I'd like to get it running. Richard Schauer rws@ais.net From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Mar 19 00:34:57 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Tony Cianfaglione wrote: > > Is Little Red Reader a PC program or a CBM program? Do you run it on a > PC and do all of the conversion there or on a C64? > > Tony > > ------------------------ LRR is a 64/128 program. The conversion takes place on the 64/128 side [i.e. it reads PC format disks] For more info see the response to another one of the posts. MM > > On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: > > > > > One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] > > is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little > > Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC > > then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a > > shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from > > PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about > > it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the > > usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] > > Enjoy! > > > > > From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Mar 19 00:49:24 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <199703181423.GAA28850@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Message-ID: OK, some things about Little Red Reader: [a program for the commodore 64/128 that lets you read PC disks] LRR was originally made for the C128 and a 1571 [DS/DD drive]. A 64 version [which requires a 1571 drive] supposedly exists, but I cannot vouch for that as I own a 128. The program basically reprograms the 1571 [or 1581] to allow it to read/write MFM format disks [in this case IBM] The program will read and write 360k IBM format on a 1571 and 720k on a 1581. Yes, the program can "go both ways", that is, it can copy CBM to IBM and the reverse as well. As for reading MFM format disks on a 1541, this is generally thought to be impossible because the 1541 only reads GCR format disks, not MFM. BUT!!!!!! There is a hardware modification and a companion program that does allow one to copy a PC format disk. Ask somone on the newsgroup where to find it though, as its wherabouts has slipped my mind. ALSO, besides the X1541 procedure, there is another hardwrae mod for a PC type drive that enables it to read commodre disks. Please dont ask me specififcs, I really dont know how this was/is accomplished. Hope this clarifies things! MM From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Mar 19 00:54:10 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So, in other words, we are looking at a "Classic Computer Encyclopedia"? Sounds good! I have also wanted to do this as well. But, just like this mailing list; I hope you know what you are getting into! The CBM FAQ [which has a list of commodore computers] lists about 75-100 different computers alone! As for HTML coding, I am sure everyone on here would be more than willing to help [well, i am atleast]. I also have a 3 foot stack of magazines from 1983-1986 and 1989-1991 and a color scanner so I have alot of old pictures of lotsa cool stuff! MM From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Wed Mar 19 03:17:02 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Laser500, Computer from Europe, FleaMarket Message-ID: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> >> Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, > ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a > Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from > the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of > are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?). are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case. I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? > There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to > get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental > computer trade route. :) VERY GOOD IDEA - I got some of my computers from the US ... If anyone is interested in trading (Computer and Video-Games): http://hal.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen/Museum/Gallery/Gallery.html I also have a small flea-market for old computer at http://hal.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen/Museum/HCM.html Furthermore it could be interesting to make a list of common european computers that are possibly rare in the US. Here a first try - please make comments on the rarity of these computers in the US: Common European Computer (esp. Germany): Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe) Commodore C-116 Commodore C-16 Commodore VC-20 (has not VIC-20 as label) Philips VG 8010, VG8020, NMS8280 (all MSX) Philips G7000 (Video games) Schneider CPC 464, CPC 664, CPC6128, Joyce PCW 8256 Sharp MZ-700, MZ-800 Sinclair QL Sony HitBit HB-75D (MSX) Triumph Adler Alphatronic TA Robotron KC85/3 (from ex. east germany - Z-80 clone) Common European Computer (esp. France): Matra Alice, Alice 90 Thomson TO7, TO7-70 Thomson MO5, TO8, TO8D Common European Computer (esp. Netherlands): MSX Computer. esp. Philips -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4210 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970319/7c81cd60/attachment.bin From mhop at snip.net Tue Mar 18 16:42:06 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) Message-ID: <19970319092653527.AAA163@computer-name> > My actual junk yard includes: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ATARI 400, ATARI 800, ATARI 6700XL, ATARI 800XL, Atari 6700XL ?? You mean 600XL, right? I don't there was a 6700xl. mhop@snip.net From dzander at solaria.sol.net Wed Mar 19 07:46:47 1997 From: dzander at solaria.sol.net (Douglas Zander) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Hello all! Message-ID: <199703191346.HAA01795@solaria.sol.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1029 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970319/99695e92/attachment.ksh From idavis at comland.com Wed Mar 19 09:31:34 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Hello all! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970319153134.008e9d54@mail.comland.com > At 07:46 AM 3/19/97 CST, you wrote: > My nephew owns an Atari 800XL computer, and I was wondering if anyone >knows of any source for basic programs he could type in and learn from. >I think the basic programs should be short and easy for a 7th grader to >learn from. Thanks for any help. I will be writing up a mastermind program >for him and maybe a tic-tac-toe game for him. Anyone have ideas for other >games that can be written in BASIC and are easy to understand and short? >Thanks in advance. > >-- > Douglas Zander | many things interest me, too many to list > dzander@solaria.sol.net | here. if you want a profile :-) why not > Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA | send me a letter? tell me about yourself, > "Over-looking Lake Michigan." | I'll tell you about myself. > Douglas, There are some good programs that he can type in and learn in the back of the basic manual. I would recommend that he get a copy of the basic manual and there are also some good books on learning basic on the atari. Check in the newsgroups, there are auctions going on constantly. A good idea for a short little program would be one to create word searches, you know the ones where you have a list of words and a block of letters, and you have to find the words hidden in the block of letters. It was one of my first programming projects, and it came out real nice. He could then start modifying it to print out the answers, and also make the size of the puzzle variable (20X20, 40X40, 20X40.....) This kind of program isn't very big to write, and it really gives a good grasp of variables and how to manipulate them, plus maybe a little disk io if he decides he wants to save them as text files. Another good source of programs is old magazines. Almost all of them had programs that you could(had to) type in, and they range from games to utilities. Tell him good luck, and stick with it. I learned to program on my Atari in 1983, and today I still love to program, in fact it's how I make a living. It's really good to see these older computers still have a purpose and a following of people that realize their worth. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From ekman at lysator.liu.se Wed Mar 19 10:02:42 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Atari cartridges Message-ID: Inspired by the discussions on this list I decided today to visit the various thrift shops in town to see if there was anything worth salvaging. I knew of eight shops before starting out, two turned out to have closed and one was too far away from downtown to be worth bothering with. As for the rest, there was not much to be found. Apart from three old monitors (one with a built-in Hercules card, according to a hand-written label) and an Amstrad PC keyboard, I found nothing of interest. However, I happened to walk past an electronic repair shop and since they had some old TV sets on display, I thought I could just as well go in and ask if they had any old computer stuff. And what do you know: in the window beside the door were six old Atari 400/800 game cartridges, with boxes and everything, seemingly in very good condition and probably never opened. (They had their original price tags of SEK 625.) I remember seeing Pac-Man, Missile Command and Qix. There was also one cartridge for some other system of which I have never heard before. Unfortunately I don't remember which one, but the title of the game was Chinese Logic. Now, are these worth anything and is anyone interested in them? I asked about them and it seems like they would be happy to sell them very cheap. /F From visimp at junction.net Wed Mar 19 10:04:28 1997 From: visimp at junction.net (Lindsay Thachuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Laser500, Computer from Europe, FleaMarket In-Reply-To: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> References: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: <19970319.080428.07@junction.net> In message <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> you wrote: > > > There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to > > get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental > > computer trade route. :) > > Furthermore it could be interesting to make a list of common european > computers that are possibly rare in the US. Here a first try - please > make comments on the rarity of these computers in the US: I have another few entries from across the Atlantic. Made in the U.K. (sold briefly in the U.S.) Classic Machines Acorn BBC Model A Acorn BBC Model B Acorn Master 128 Acorn Compact These were 8-bit 6502 machines with a ROM operating system, built in BASIC and networking called Econet, and operated in 7 screen modes. Unique was its ability to plug in a dual processor and they all had a user port for interfacing to the outside world. They were very popular in education and lots of educational software is still available. For the record, they were replaced by 32-bit RISC machines. I own eight of the Model B's here in Canada and use their latest 32-bit 200 Mhz StrongARM processor in my Acorn RISC PC. Anyone seen any American models around?? -- Lindsay Thachuk in Western Canada with the World's Best Computer - the Acorn RiscPC with the only StrongARM in ARMstrong From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Wed Mar 19 10:36:24 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Hello all! Message-ID: <01IGOMGHT4WY8Y5M5N@AC.GRIN.EDU> > My nephew owns an Atari 800XL computer, and I was wondering if anyone > knows of any source for basic programs he could type in and learn from. > I think the basic programs should be short and easy for a 7th grader to > learn from. Thanks for any help. I will be writing up a mastermind program > for him and maybe a tic-tac-toe game for him. Anyone have ideas for other > games that can be written in BASIC and are easy to understand and short? > Thanks in advance. Used book stores. They often have old computer books lying around which they'll sell to you for a couple dollars, and it shouldn't be too hard to find books of basic games. Heck, I have a book of 33 games designed for PET, Apple ][, or TRS-80 BASIC that I could send to you, if you want. They're pretty, uh, basic, but taking them apart isn't a bad way to learn BASIC. I really should sleep more, -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu 530 User anonymous access denied. http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley for fiction, etc. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Mar 19 10:48:26 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: <01IGOMGHT4WY8Y5M5N@AC.GRIN.EDU> from "Benjamin M Coakley" at Mar 19, 97 10:36:24 am Message-ID: <199703191648.JAA12906@calico.litterbox.com> If you can find a book called Basic Computer Games by David Ahl (I think there were about 4 volumes, actually, but I have volume 1) it contains some real classics. Like the text based Star Trek game. (This was in my C=64 days - a friend of mine's mom typed in this huge program for him, he gave me a copy and we spent our time hacking in sound and graphics on the '64.) Some of the games are very short - a dozen lines or so. Others, like Star Trek mentioned above, are hundreds. To tell the truth I don't know really how much programming I learned with it, except when we were hacking the sound routines into Trek, of course, but they're good books with good games. I learned a great deal more programming writing my own Dungeons and Dragons player character generator. It was times like those I fervently wished Commodore had provided renumbering in their basic - I discovered gosub because I ran out of line numbers in the program. :) Didn't learn structured programming until I took it in High School on, you guessed it, commodore 64s (and CBM 8032s, actually) At the time I was one of the only students who could do his homework in computer class at home and bring his tape drive in and load it in class. :) For more interesting programming challenges there's a book called "Exploring artifical intelligence on the commodore 64" it has classic AI programs like "doctor" in commodore basic. Granted someone'd have to translate the programs but they looked pretty good. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Wed Mar 19 10:58:21 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Dead Ataris In-Reply-To: <199703191346.HAA01795@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: Greetings all! Last night a friend dropped by and brought with him a big box full of old Atari stuff that his company was about to trash. It included: Atari 800 Atari 800XL Carts: Pac-Man, Centipede, Space Invaders, Star Raiders, Basic, Asteroids and an educational game. All manuals included 2 working Wico joysticks All power supplies Inside Atari BASIC book Atari 800 manuals Now, the trouble is.. neither computer works. When powered up they both give a clear green screen and that is it. The carts and joysticks work just fine as my Atari 400 was able to tell us. I popped the top on the 800 and pushed on all the chips and still nothing. I'm a bit perplexed as to why both machines are acting the same way. They use different power supplies and the 800 power supply works with the 400. I'm new to Ataris, so it this a sign of something that commonly went wrong with these machines? All help appreciated! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Mar 19 11:33:16 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Greetings! Message-ID: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> Hello all, I'm new to the list, and have been "lurking" for a few days. Things look pretty good, but as most of the discussion relates to micro- computer systems, I wonder if anyone here shares my passion for mini- computer gear. I maintain a collection of functional minicomputers and am rather heavily involved in several restoration projects currently underway. My collection's primary focus is Data General machines in the 16-bit class, although I have several DEC systems as well. Does anyone else here collect minis? Of course, it goes without saying that any information on the whereabouts of "available" DG 16-bitters would be vastly appreciated! Cheers! ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Mar 19 11:55:54 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 12:33:16 pm Message-ID: <199703191755.KAA13205@calico.litterbox.com> That sounds like an interesting collection... but an expensive one to power up. I assume you've read Soul of the New Machine about the Data General push to a 32 bit response to the VAX? -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:00:03 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 12:33 (noon) Message-ID: <199703191800.4337@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > Hello all, > > I'm new to the list, and have been "lurking" for a few days. Things > look pretty good, but as most of the discussion relates to micro- > computer systems, I wonder if anyone here shares my passion for mini- > computer gear. Yes, I'm mostly a minicomputer person - they're so much more fun than micros :-). I currently have a number of DEC machines (PDP11's, PDP8/e, PDP8/a), a Philips P850, an HP2100A (I am searching for information on that if anyone has anything...), etc. Nothing Data General (yet!), alas. Do you count PERQ workstations as minis? The CPU is somewhat similar to minicomputers of the time, although extra hardware was added for the rasterop machine (bit blitter). > Cheers! > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dzander at solaria.sol.net Wed Mar 19 12:16:52 1997 From: dzander at solaria.sol.net (Douglas Zander) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Oh no! my C128 is dead!? Message-ID: <199703191816.MAA03623@solaria.sol.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970319/19e850f3/attachment.ksh From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 19 12:33:54 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: <199703191648.JAA12906@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Jim wrote: > If you can find a book called Basic Computer Games by David Ahl (I think there > were about 4 volumes, actually, but I have volume 1) it contains some real > classics. Like the text based Star Trek game. (This was in my C=64 > days - a friend of mine's mom typed in this huge program for him, he gave > me a copy and we spent our time hacking in sound and graphics on the '64.) Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition (MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back in 1978/79 I translated quite of the programs from the Microcomputer version to the HP2000 at the community college I was attending. I recall that the hardest part was that string handling, especially substrings, were very different. Ward Griffiths -- There will be peace on Earth when the last king has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Mar 19 12:19:14 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Of Minicomputers and Power Message-ID: <199703191819.AA24866@bs014.swec.com> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:55:54 -0700, Jim Strickland spake thusly unto us: > [...] sounds like an interesting collection... but an expensive one > to power up. All in all, the minis aren't that bad on power. The Novas only draw a couple hundred watts and usually aren't powered on at the same time. The pdp11/34a is a hog, though; the month I started working on that one the power bill went to $75. I believe the largest amount of computer power running in the house at once was the time when my wife had both PCs up and I had my DECstation, VAXstation, and InterAct fired up at the same time. The LAN took a beating that day. > I assume you've read Soul of the New Machine about the Data General > push to a 32 bit response to the VAX? What DG "head" hasn't? Cheers. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Mar 19 12:21:44 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: PERQ Systems Message-ID: <199703191821.AA24879@bs014.swec.com> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:00:03 GMT, Tony Duell mentioned: > Do you count PERQ workstations as minis? The CPU is somewhat similar > to minicomputers of the time, although extra hardware was added for > the rasterop machine (bit blitter). I confess an absolute ignorance of the PERQ machinery. I've never even seen one. Posted information might be interesting to the gathered assemblage. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:24:11 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Of Minicomputers and Power In-Reply-To: <199703191819.AA24866@bs014.swec.com>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 1:19 pm Message-ID: <199703191824.5987@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > The pdp11/34a is a hog, though; the month I started working on that one > the power bill went to $75. You should try my PDP11/45 system - 8 demountable hard disks, magtape, a couple of expansion boxes, paper tape, etc. It probably pulls about 4kW in total. Fortunately I'm in the UK, where we have 240V mains, and where the standard mains circuit is a 30A ring main. That's 7.2kW (or thereabouts), and I have such a circuit just for my computer room. Of course that doesn't affect the cost of running it, but at least it means I can run up these larger machines from time to time. > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From danjo at xnet.com Wed Mar 19 12:41:39 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Dan and Joanne Tucker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 12:33:16 pm Message-ID: <199703191841.MAA02271@xnet.com> > Hello all, > > I maintain a collection of functional minicomputers and am rather > heavily involved in several restoration projects currently underway. > My collection's primary focus is Data General machines in the 16-bit > class, although I have several DEC systems as well. Does anyone else > here collect minis? Sure I do, but then again what's a mini? Got a PDP-11/23 and another on the way (I hope). This one has the CPM board installed as well. Right now I forget who put that out? Have a Sigma controller running a couple of MFM Hard drives. I use it to heat the house in the winter 8-) That and my Intellec mds800 Multibus machine. Running ISIS II D.O.S. Half the cabinet is Linear Power Supply! Also have 6502 development boards KIM-1 and VIM-1 AND I wouldn't mind finding a AIM-65 to go with those 8-) > Of course, it goes without saying that any information on the > whereabouts of "available" DG 16-bitters would be vastly appreciated! Wouldn't know - never got involved with them 8-) I have noticed tho where ever they sold well, you find them (?) and I don't think DG sold well her in the Chicago area OR they are still beating the H#LL out of them and you can't get them. I do have one thing to do tho - I HAVE to fire up my old TVT-1 and see if it works. BC From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:54:34 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: PERQ Systems In-Reply-To: <199703191821.AA24879@bs014.swec.com>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 1:21 pm Message-ID: <199703191854.8242@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:00:03 GMT, Tony Duell mentioned: > > > Do you count PERQ workstations as minis? The CPU is somewhat similar > > to minicomputers of the time, although extra hardware was added for > > the rasterop machine (bit blitter). > > I confess an absolute ignorance of the PERQ machinery. I've never > even seen one. I must enlighten you, then - they're very nice machines IMHO, but then, as a PERQ-fanatic, I'm biased :-) They were IMHO the first commercially-sold graphics workstations. The PERQ 1 came out in 1979, and had the following features : CPU : 20 bit ALU path, with 16 bit path to main memory. ALU also used to calculate the 20 bit (word) addresses for the main memory 256 20 bit general purpose registers (that is not a typo), 16 level 20 bit expression stack. 4K writeable control store, with 2910 sequencer chip. Microcode loaded from disk (normally) at boot-up. Rasterop machine (bitblitter) graphics accelerator. Uses barrel shift from main CPU logic + PROMs to implement bitblit operations. CPU calculates memory addresses, while rasterop logic performs the actual updates. Capable of more than 10 full-screen updates per second. Memory/video 64 bit wide (interally) memory board, with 16 bit path to CPU. Also 64 bit path to video shift registers. Video was 768 (horizontal) * 1024 (vertical) bitmap. Memory was word addressed and varied from 256kB to 2MB Monitor was a 15" (approx) portrait unit. I/O RS232 port, IEEE488 port, keyboard, sound (PCM Codec), 8" floppy drive controlled by a Z80 + 1K RAM + ROM, communicating with the main PERQ CPU via an array of FIFOs. 24Mbyte 14" Shugart SA4000 hard disk with own controller. DMA engine between Z80 FIFO, hard disk controller, and optional peripherals and main PERQ memory. Optional networking (initially some PERQ custom thing, later Ethernet), 16 bit parallel link (compatable with DEC DR11-A) and laser printer (initially Canon LBP-10, later Canon CX-VDO). Pointing Device Summagraphics bit pad one tablet, connected via GPIB interface Software Initial operating system was POS (PERQ Operating System), which used an enhanced pascal as the system programming language. The machine code was called Q-code, and was an enhanced p-code in many ways. POS was single-user, single tasking, but supported some basic window operations, pop-up menus, etc. PNX was a version of Unix, ported to the PERQ by ICL (who sold the machine in the UK). It was basically version 7, with a bit of Sys3 added on top. It had a window manager, called WMS, which feels a bit odd, but which was (I think) the first such system. The hardware was built from entirely standard ICs (TTL + PROMs, mainly), and fitted into a deskside case. About a year later, the PERQ1a arrived. This had a revised CPU board with 16K of writeable control store (addressed as 4 off 4K banks for compatability reasons), multiply/divide hardware, and some more hardware instructions. Many PERQ1's were upgraded to the 1a specification (just a CPU board swap). Then came the PERQ 2T1. This used the same (16K) CPU and memory boards, but had a revised I/O board. This had 2 serial ports, keyboard interface, sound (same as the older board), 8" floppy controller and a real time clock controlled by the Z80. The Z80 now had 16K of RAM, and you could download programs into the RAM and run them on the Z80. The hard disk controller was modified, and now controlled an 8" micropolis 1203 hard disk. You could fit the PERQ 1 option I/O board (laser printer, second ethernet, 16 bit parallel). The cabinet design was also changed, the keyboard became a VT100-layout one, and the Summagraphics bit pad was replaced by a custom electomagnetic one (called a Kriz tablet, after the designer) The next machine as the PERQ 2T2. This was the same machine as the 2T1 (new cabinet, new I/O board) but used a standard ST506-interfaced hard disk. Various models existed, with different hard drives. Both Portrait (768*1024) and landscape (1280*1024) models exist. The last of the classic PERQs (as this family is often known) was the PERQ 2T4. This had a 24 bit CPU (instead of the 20 bit one in all other models) and 4MB of RAM, in theory expandable to 32MB. Otherwise it was identical to the 2T2. I am told that _very_ few were made, though. That was the end of the classic PERQ line. The name was carried on by ICL for a short time, who made the PERQ 3000 (aka PERQ 3a) AGW (Advanced Graphics Workstation). This came out in about 1987 and was a 68020-based unix workstation with a custom graphics accelerator based on a pair of AM29116 ALUs and 4K of control store. The rest of the machine was fairly standard, using standard peripheral ICs. I am told that, again, very few of these were made. If you are interested in these machines, try posting to alt.sys.perq, where we have very few flames (other than for spam, totally off-topic posts and idiots who ask why we still bother with these old machines). Feel free to ask introductory-level questions - hopefully somebody there will answer you. > Posted information might be interesting to the gathered assemblage. I hope the above is interesting. Feel free to ask for more details. > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:57:35 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191841.MAA02271@xnet.com>; from "Dan and Joanne Tucker" at Mar 19, 97 12:41 (noon) Message-ID: <199703191857.8435@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Sure I do, but then again what's a mini? Got a PDP-11/23 and another It's difficult to define 'mini' IMHO. I tend to claim a 'mini' is a machine smaller than a mainframe (i.e. I can fit it in the house!) but where the CPU is not a single chip, or a single chipset (which would make it a micro). Unfortunately that makes the 11/23 a micro, which is curious to say the least. > That and my Intellec mds800 Multibus machine. Running ISIS II D.O.S. > Half the cabinet is Linear Power Supply! I know the MDS800 well, and it's certainly a micro. I have one, with the double-density disk controller, 8080 ICE cards, Universal PROM Programmer (which is controlled by a 4040), etc. It's based on the 8080, of course. > BC -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From william at ans.net Wed Mar 19 13:06:06 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:54 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> Message-ID: <199703191906.AA19074@interlock.ans.net> > I maintain a collection of functional minicomputers and am rather > heavily involved in several restoration projects currently underway. > My collection's primary focus is Data General machines in the 16-bit > class, although I have several DEC systems as well. Does anyone else > here collect minis? I do - the systems I have are a mixed lot. The big (6' rack) minis are a DEC PDP-8/s, Interdata 14, and HP 2100A (well, minus the rack - the guy wanted to keep _that_ part). Unracked are a PDP-8/e and PDP-11/34, and a bunch of really ancient M6800 based micros (Motorola Exorsisor, SWTPC, and three Spheres, one unbuilt). I also have some Sun stuff (3/280, 3/50, 3/60, 4/280, 4/370). Those PERQ machine sound interesting - I have never seen one either. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dlormand at aztec.asu.edu Wed Mar 19 13:22:19 1997 From: dlormand at aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <9703191922.AA03982@aztec.asu.edu> I'm not totally sure yet another ad hoc list is in our best interests. There are some Web sites dedicated to Classic Computers that list some/most of the old sets and what went with them (peripherals, memory, etc.). If you feel that a seperate list is still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web sites and how good you think they are. Some, like Rich Polivka's page, are dedicated to a single machine (our trusty TI). I imagine other machines have something similar. -- ********************************************** * David Ormand *** Southwest 99ers * * dlormand@aztec.asu.edu *** Tucson, Arizona * **************************** TMS9900 Lives! * From george.lin at documentum.com Wed Mar 19 13:40:40 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970319114040.00f908c4@lion.documentum.com> Hi all, I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one? Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it. In the same store, I picked up a Peripheral Expansion Box for my TI 99/4A. It comes with 1 floppy disk drive, 32K memory expansion, serial adapter, and flex cable adapter. However, the fuse and the cap that holds the fuse in place are gone. Does anyone know the specification for the fuse or know where I can get a replacement for it and the cap? Any help is greatly appreciated. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From idavis at comland.com Wed Mar 19 13:50:56 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Dead Ataris Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970319195056.008dc280@mail.comland.com > At 10:58 AM 3/19/97 -0600, Ron Kneusel wrote: >Now, the trouble is.. neither computer works. When powered up they both >give a clear green screen and that is it. The carts and joysticks work >just fine as my Atari 400 was able to tell us. > >I popped the top on the 800 and pushed on all the chips and still >nothing. I'm a bit perplexed as to why both machines are acting the same >way. They use different power supplies and the 800 power supply works >with the 400. > >I'm new to Ataris, so it this a sign of something that commonly went >wrong with these machines? > >All help appreciated! > >- Ron Kneusel > rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu > Ron, The only one that I might be of help is the 800. I pulled the OS board out of my atari and got the green screen. I can only deduce from this that maybe with both machines, there is something wrong with the OS board, but there might be more to it than that. I have had my 800 since 1983, and have not had any real problems with it. Knock on wood. I know I shouldn't say things like that, but oh well, I said it anyway. Hope this helps. There is a guy here in Austin that would have a spare OS board for the 800, if you want his name and email, let me know and I will pull it out for you. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 19 17:23:15 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Of Minicomputers and Power In-Reply-To: <199703191819.AA24866@bs014.swec.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:55:54 -0700, Jim Strickland spake thusly > unto us: > > > [...] sounds like an interesting collection... but an expensive one > > to power up. > > I believe the largest amount of computer power running in the > house at once was the time when my wife had both PCs up and I had my > DECstation, VAXstation, and InterAct fired up at the same time. The > LAN took a beating that day. Hrumph! You have not seen a power meter REALLY spin until I hit the switch on my Vax 11/780! Even the PDP-11/70 in the collection comes in a poor second to that critter! ( ridiculous huge B^} ) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 20:40:26 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 19-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just >that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. >The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition >(MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back Ward, I have the TRS-80 edition here among my different books, and it is indeed by the same David H. Ahl. I think my favorite program in it is the Star Trek game. I remember even getting to play that same game on a Honeywell mainframe or mini of some type back around 1985 or so. In that version, there was a bug that allowed you to create energy instead of using it if you put the warp factor in as a negative number. We used to put it in as a very large negative power or 10 or so, and that gave us more energy than we could possibly use the whole game, all on the first move! BTW, on a similar note, I saw a web page the other day about a reference book in the works, and it covered even all of these early micro versions of Basic, and cross referenced the commands to any other variant. I saw a book like this years ago, but it covered the popular micros of the time such as the Apple's, TRS-80's, and such. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 19 18:10:35 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just > that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. > The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition > (MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back in > 1978/79 I translated quite of the programs from the Microcomputer version > to the HP2000 at the community college I was attending. I recall that > the hardest part was that string handling, especially substrings, were > very different. Ummm... Beg to differ. In addition to "101 BASIC Computer Games" was the follow up volume "MORE BASIC Computer Games" by the self same David H. Ahl. (I have both volumes in my collection) B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From BigLouS at aol.com Wed Mar 19 19:31:50 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Franklin 2000 Message-ID: <970319203032_415483809@emout15.mail.aol.com> Does anyone have any schematics or info on this machine? I have one that refuses to boot and seems to have a bad 74LS259 in what I'm pretty sure is the disk circuitry. Any help or info is appreciated. Thanks, Lou From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 22:34:13 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... Message-ID: This is for all of you that are familiar with the TI-99/4 and 4A and it's Speech Synthesizer. Does anyone know if there were any of the Plug-In Speech Modules ever released? Granted, the reported 373 words (from the Synthesizer booklet) is pretty good, it'd be nice if it were larger. Also, I'm looking for any cartridges that used the Synthesizer, as the only two I have that do is 'Parsec' and 'Terminal Emulator II'. I am especially in need of the 'Speech Editor' cartridge. As an aside, I was going through the different manuals and such I have for the TI-99/4A and found "Entertainment Games in TI Basic and Extended Basic" from SAMS in the Blacksburg Continuing Education Series. It still includes the manual, TI Basic reference card, and a cassette with the programs on it. According to the manual, there are twenty programs in all, and it looks fairly interesting. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From spc at armigeron.com Wed Mar 19 20:12:39 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 Message-ID: <199703200212.VAA22119@armigeron.com> At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long on the screen): Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before going to alt.folklore.computers. 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past the bad CMOS? 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. 3. The daughter board also contains the ROMs, and the one that's in there looks to be an EPROM. The markings are TMS / 27C512JL / LPD8809. I'm mostly a software guy, so some of this hardware is puzzling to say the least. I'd like to get this system up and running. -spc (Oh, so it's www.zds.com and NOT www.zenith.com 8-) From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 23:33:42 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 19-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long >on the screen): > Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. > I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before >going to alt.folklore.computers. If the 386 BIOS goes by the same keystrokes and such as the Z-248 '286 BIOS, you should hit Ctrl-Alt-INSERT as the machine powers up to access the built-in BIOS setup. >1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use > a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past > the bad CMOS? No, Zenith systems do not use a non-standard keyboard. It sounds likely that it may not be getting that far. >2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the > ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V > Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface > 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs > are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm > wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. If you remove the cover and watch the 8 LED's, you'll be able to watch them progress from all dark, to all lit up as each POST test is completed. I know on some Z-248's I've seen, there are even little captions silkscreened on the board next to the LED so that you can tell which part of the test it's on. On the Z-248 though, the LED's are on the main backplane board, on which the processor, memory, I/O, diskcontroller, and any other board, plugs into. Hope this helps at least a little. All of my experiece is with the 286 powered Z-248, but hopefully at least some of it will help you out. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 19 21:56:02 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970316140626_1848371460@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970319195602.00cde48c@agora.rdrop.com> At 02:06 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-03-16 14:02:04 EST, you write: > ><< This CPU was thought to be very powerfull for its time. Was it 16bit, > while most of the others were 8bit? >> > >Yes, the TI was the FIRST 16-Bit Computer ever manufactured. TI invented the >integrated circuit, the microprocessor, and the microcomputer, altogether. > Being first was their tradition. Who knows if it still is? Ummm... beg to differ a bit here... While I believe that TI did indeed invent the integrated circuit, it was Intel that invented the microprocessor (the 4004), and the microcomputer first arose from various construction articles in electronics hobbiest related magazines at the time where the when the microprocessors were still relegated to controller tasks (calculators, traffic light controllers, etc.) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From pcoad at crl.com Thu Mar 20 01:58:13 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970319114040.00f908c4@lion.documentum.com> Message-ID: George, On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, George Lin wrote: > I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The > system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot > disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I > remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible > with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an > Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one? > Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne > formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it. > Contact Don Maslin . He is the keeper of the Dina-SIG System Disk Archive. He is a great source of system disks for CP/M machines. He usually charges $3 for the first disk and $1-2 for each additional disk. I got some system disks for and O1 from him early this year. He is and excellent resource and a righteous dude. Without him and the system disk archive many otherwise working machines would have ended up in the landfill. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeffh at eleventh.com Tue Mar 18 06:13:30 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >I got some system disks for and O1 from him early this year. He is and >excellent resource and a righteous dude. Without him and the system >disk archive many otherwise working machines would have ended up in >the landfill. I can definately vouch for Dan here! I've bought the system disks for both my Osbourne Executive and the Kaypro 2X from him. He's very quick to repsond to inquiries, and he's also very knowledgable about the different systems. He posts on Usenet in the CP/M group quite often. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From dzander at solaria.sol.net Thu Mar 20 04:55:06 1997 From: dzander at solaria.sol.net (Douglas Zander) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? Message-ID: <199703201055.EAA10712@solaria.sol.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 643 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970320/e99582fc/attachment.ksh From ekman at lysator.liu.se Thu Mar 20 05:59:06 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <9703191922.AA03982@aztec.asu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, DAVID L. ORMAND wrote: > If you feel that a seperate list is > still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web > sites and how good you think they are. Your suggestion is good, but for at least three reasons cannot replace a "complete" list. Firstly, the various web sites are all in different formats, making it difficult to make comparisons. Perhaps you cannot even find the information you are interested in. If we make our own list, we can decide together what information we need and put it together in a standardized way. This would also facilitate sorting. Say that I want to know what micros with at least 64K RAM existed before the C64 was released. I wish you good luck if you want to hunt this information down on the web sites and present it in a uniform fashion. Secondly, not all systems are covered by the web sites. I challenge you to find a page about the Sord M5. I double challenge you to find one about the Sord IS-11. Not everyone has the possibility to add a new site about his favourite computer, but sending an addition to a list maintainer is rather straightforward. (As an aside, I am currently working on a Sord M5 home page. No plans for the IS-11 yet, though.) Thirdly (and in my opinion most importantly) you can never say for sure what web sites are still there tomorrow. Maintainers move and take their pages with them, or they may decide that they no longer have the time or resources to keep it up, or the archives may be reorganized and all links end up in void, or an ISP may go belly-up, or... The Internet's swiftly changing structure is a double-edged sword. In short, one thing may not exclude the other. Both suggestions have their advantages and disadvantages. /F From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 20 06:45:51 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Ahl's BASIC Computer Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, James Willing wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > > Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just > > that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. > > The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition > > (MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back in > > Ummm... Beg to differ. In addition to "101 BASIC Computer Games" was the > follow up volume "MORE BASIC Computer Games" by the self same David H. > Ahl. (I have both volumes in my collection) B^} You're right. Forgot that one. It didn't have nearly as many translations and it wasn't nearly as good. I guess Ahl (what's he been doing lately?) was too busy with Creative Computing's corporate relations when it came out. (There's a special place in Hell for certain Ziff-Davis management.) Ward Griffiths From classicjr at juno.com Thu Mar 20 10:29:52 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors References: Message-ID: <19970320.083043.5303.0.classicjr@juno.com> Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. Does anyone have connections to the National/World media about this?? Jeff Rottman in Texas From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 20 09:15:30 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "Fredrik Ekman" at Mar 20, 97 12:59:06 pm Message-ID: <199703201515.KAA23250@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Fredrik Ekman once stated: > > Secondly, not all systems are covered by the web sites. I challenge you to > find a page about the Sord M5. I double challenge you to find one about > the Sord IS-11. Oooh, willing to put some money on that? 8-) Well, in a few minutes of searching [1], I came up with the following: Sord M5: Picture of Sord M5: http://194.22.63.201/homepages/gerard.laures/sord-m5.htm Some info: http://www.hh.schule.de/hhs/computer/sordm5.htm Info and Picture: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/chriss/hchof/sordm5.html Unfortunately, I couldn't find any information about the Sord IS-11. Maybe it was wise I didn't put any money down on it. Point taken. -spc (But given more time I might have found something ... ) [1] Using a program which submits the query to 15 other engines and displays the results. I probably wouldn't mention it, but I wrote the darned thing (the program, not the site) - http://www.cyber411.com/ From BNICALEK at aol.com Thu Mar 20 11:03:46 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... Message-ID: <970320120257_1781912465@emout09.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-19 20:49:20 EST, you write: > >This is for all of you that are familiar with the TI-99/4 and 4A and it's >Speech Synthesizer. Does anyone know if there were any of the Plug-In Speech >Modules ever released? Granted, the reported 373 words (from the Synthesizer >booklet) is pretty good, it'd be nice if it were larger. Also, I'm looking >for any cartridges that used the Synthesizer, as the only two I have that do >is 'Parsec' and 'Terminal Emulator II'. I am especially in need of the >'Speech Editor' cartridge. There were many "Speech Synthesizer" modules released. Most of them had to do with entertainment packages, but there also many for education as well. Education packages included the Scott, Foresman series were the computer would say the numbers and letters to children, and for entertainment, there was Alpiner, Parsec, M*A*S*H, Star Trek, Microsurgeon, and many, many others. There are more than 373 words to choose from. In fact, with the Terminal Emulator II cartridge, you have unlimited "text-to-speech" capability. Literally anything you type in can be spoken. Sometimes you would have to make the the pronunciation spellings different in order for this to work, but mostly, it was fine. Extended BASIC was the only cartridge that limited "text-to-speech", but even then TI later released a "text-to-speech" diskette which would allow the user to type in anything (much like the Terminal Emulator II, and Speech Editor). I just picked up a Speech Editor cartridge for $20 from someone who was selling it along with other old TI stuff. Expect to pay this, or more for it - as it is rare. I just got it, and I can't even use it because I don't have the manual. Anyone have the manual for the TI Speech Editor cartridge? Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 20 11:11:14 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: <19970320.083043.5303.0.classicjr@juno.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Jeffrey G. Rottman wrote: > Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped > into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. All to true... > Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are > collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the > story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, > maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. A good idea, but needs to be approached with some care. Remember, the mass media will only be interested in a story that will gain them ratings/$$$, so IF you manage to get them interested in most cases they will put their own spin on it toward that goal. (yes, I've had far too many dealings with the media in my various ventures) Popularity is NOT always a good thing! Case in point: I was reciently in the process of finalizing a deal to obtain some equipment that was, in the words of the person I was in communication with "inches away from the dumpster". This batch of gear included some microcomputers, including a 'Mark-8' and some IMSAIs. We were just making the arrangements for shipping when someone on their side came across an article in the New York Times on collecting and the value of older computers. In the text of the article is allegedly said (I have not seen the article) that early microcomputers were fetching sums of upwards of $25,000(US). Needless to say, the deal immediately collapsed and the person who was offering the gear is now either (1) still sitting on the stuff waiting for the money to roll in, -or- (2) happily spending the money of some one who actually believed the article! I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it! > Does anyone have connections to the National/World media about this?? Be afraid... Be VERY afraid! Me, I'm doing new board layouts and am planning to reconstruct a 'Mark-8' or two... Anyone else interested in a board set? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 12:02:00 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: ; from "James Willing" at Mar 20, 97 9:11 am Message-ID: <199703201802.8962@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> [...] > In the text of the article is allegedly said (I have not seen the article) > that early microcomputers were fetching sums of upwards of $25,000(US). What is crazy (IMHO) is that some machines seem to attract prices that are far too high for the type of machine. A case in point : About 10 years ago at a radio rally (hamfest), I could have bought either an Altair or an Intellec MCS8I. The Intellec was \pounds 10 more expensive, but appeared to be the more interesting and historically significant machine. It also had all the manuals with it, etc. It was getting late, and I couldn't afford both. I bought the Intellec. Of course now the Altair sells for very high prices (and I have no idea why), while Intellecs are almost worthless except to serious old computer enthusiasts like myself. So in a sense I lost a lot of money on that decision. Do I regret it? Not at all! The Intellec is the more interesting machine. I don't collect these computers as an investment - I collect them because I like old computers. I like to see how they work, how things changed over the years, etc. [...] > I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the > media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment > costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed > people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved > 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it! Absolutely. I was chatting to Wlodek Mier-J (An HP calculator enthusiast) shortly before he published his 'guide to HP calculators' (which is excellent, by the way). I was also worried that such a guide could cause the second-hand prices of such machines to become very high, and effectively cut a lot of people out of the hobby. He replied that this could be a result, but that his intended result was to make people realise that the 20-year-old HP calculators had a value, and that it was worth selling them to collectors rather than throwing them out. The prices he mentioned in the book are realistic, IMHO, and second-hand prices of most HP machines haven't gone up. However, that was a book written by an enthusiast for other enthusiasts. The general media want a good story (obviously) and will quite happily report that a particular machine sold for $25000 (or whatever). No matter that it wasn't _worth_ that much - it was just that the buyer, for whatever reason, wanted that particular machine. Of course the general public suddenly get the idea that _all_ old computers are valuable, and refuse to sell them for what enthusiasts consider realistic prices. I've heard of Sinclair ZX80's selling for \pounds 175.00. Would I pay that? Not at all - I could get a much more interesting machine for that sort of money - probably some kind of minicomputer or workstation. I've even heard of Science of Cambridge MK14's (Sinclair's first microcomputer) selling for \pounds 1000. Now, I'd not sell mine for that (it was my first ever computer, and I feel an attraction to it :-)), but I certainly wouldn't pay that for a second one. For the same money I could get some _very_ interesting hardware... > -jim -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 12:08:40 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: HH Tiger Message-ID: <199703201808.9364@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Does anyone know anything about a somewhat strange UK home computer called an HH Tiger? I believe the specification was : 6 MHz Z80B, 64K RAM, boot ROMs (was there a ROM basic?) 2MHz 68B09, 8K RAM, I/O ROM, RS232 port, parallel port, network interface (used the 6854), cassette interface NEC7220 graphics chip = 3 off 32K bitplanes. RGB TTL outputs to a monitor Built-in 1200/75 (Prestel) modem I believe it was designed by Tangerine, and would have been the Oric. It was sold to HH Electronics (who, AFAIK no longer exist), who never sold it (or who only sold it in small quantities). It appears to have been a nice machine - has anyone got any more info? -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From william at ans.net Thu Mar 20 12:14:12 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199703201814.AA06383@interlock.ans.net> > > Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped > > into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. > > All to true... Actually, most of them get sent overseas to get chopped up and recycled - pretty much the same fate in our eyes. > > Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are > > collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the > > story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, > > maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. > > A good idea, but needs to be approached with some care. Yes, I agree with all of the points made previously. I would like to add that advertising to the general public can leave you with mounds of requests/donations that need to be answered, and more people banging at your door. Most people can not tell a good classic computer (rarities, real oldies, etc.) from the common lot. To them, they are old computers that have been hidden in closets for ten years, and now may be worth money (cost escalation _will_ occur, as it has for every other kind of antique). When they come to you with a treasure, chances are that you will have five identical types already at home, and you will have to refuse the deal. This may be OK for the first few people, but it gets very tedious after the 20th person that asks you if you want to buy their Apple ][e. You get irritated from it (unless you have infinite patience), and they get disappointed that what they have is not a gem. Nobody walks away happy. The question you must ask yourself is "Do I want to expose myself to this, just so I can get that one prize in one hundred?". I have tried advertising in both niche publications and to the masses at the hamfests. Both ways have worked for me in my radio collecting hobby fairly well - I have made some deals for real gems. For the computer collecting side, however, advertising (generally with a carried sign) at the hamfests has been fruitless. My sign stated explicitly that I was looking for old minicomputers (DEC, DG, etc.) and old Sun equipment, yet I was still offered tons of Apple ][es. I just placed some feelers out on the net. I wonder how they will work. My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and probably will, backfire. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 12:33:41 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: <199703201814.AA06383@interlock.ans.net>; from "William Donzelli" at Mar 20, 97 1:14 pm Message-ID: <199703201833.10735@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Actually, most of them get sent overseas to get chopped up and recycled - > pretty much the same fate in our eyes. The only 'recycling' I want to apply to classic computers is what happens on a PERQ when you try to read memory data before the memory board is ready. The microcycle gets repeated until the memory board asserts the data available line, or in other words the microcode gets 'recycled' :-) > Most people can not tell a good classic computer (rarities, real oldies, > etc.) from the common lot. To them, they are old computers that have been > hidden in closets for ten years, and now may be worth money (cost > escalation _will_ occur, as it has for every other kind of antique). > When they come to you with a treasure, chances are that you will have five > identical types already at home, and you will have to refuse the deal. > This may be OK for the first few people, but it gets very tedious after > the 20th person that asks you if you want to buy their Apple ][e. You get Just occasionally it is worth grabbing yet another common machine. I was at an sale of test equipment, etc, and a DEC MINC (Modular Instrument Computer) turned up. Now, I already had 2 of them, and didn't really want a third (it's a PDP11/03 or 11/23 CPU + RAM + GPIB + serial ports + boot ROM + realtime I/O modules) _but_ this one had a thermocouple interface and a volts/amps/ohms preamplifier module in it. As it was very cheap I bought it for the modules. I did keep the rest of the machine, of course, in the end... I suspect that if you were offered an Apple ][ with some rare I/O cards (say an 9511 arithmetic coprocessor, a 6809 coprocessor, etc) you'd take it. Even if you then whipped out the rare cards and passed the rest of the machine on to another collector. Most people don't know what cards are in their machines, so it's always worth taking a look... > My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are > still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and > probably will, backfire. Agreed. It's probably best to keep hunting at radio rallies, charity shops, etc, and buy that which looks interesting... > William Donzelli -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Thu Mar 20 11:52:39 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? References: <199703201055.EAA10712@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: <33317967.43EB@oboe.calpoly.edu> Douglas Zander wrote: > Also, how many of you remember the old "pong" game that had the paddles > built into the unit? My family had one of those, I'd like to know where > it is now! :-) My brother still has one of those and I found one at the Goodwill for a couple bucks. They're still around but pretty rare. -- http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From CHEER at us.oracle.com Thu Mar 20 15:57:17 1997 From: CHEER at us.oracle.com (Christopher Heer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 Message-ID: <199703201858.KAA19308@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Captain Napalm sez: > At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it >might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and >today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to >scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary memory. > Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long >on the screen): > Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out. > I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before >going to alt.folklore.computers. > 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use > a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past > the bad CMOS? Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it. > 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the > ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V > Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface > 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs > are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm > wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. Depends on how you define "common" and "easily," but yeah, you should be able to find it and replace it. They last a long time, though; I'd resolve the config issue before replacing it. -- Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 Fax: (312) 726-4635 Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Thu Mar 20 12:09:14 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors References: Message-ID: <33317D4A.24F5@oboe.calpoly.edu> James Willing wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Jeffrey G. Rottman wrote: > > > Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped > > into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. > > All too true... > > > Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are > > collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the > > story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, > > maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. Believe me, the price/value of these machines will not go unnoticed for long. Right now you can go to the Salvation Army and start a collection for a few bucks. Around christmas time our Goodwill was full of old computers which were tossed out. They were snapped up by "collectors" as fast as they were put on the shelves. You have to be quick. As with all collectibles there will be those who collect them for their value and those who enjoy them. Look at the video game systems from the same era. They are becoming more popular without any media attention. Media attention IMHO will drive the prices up by calling them "collectible" or quoting ridiculous prices. Look at the prices paid by overseas collectors! I think collecting has reached a "fanatic" stage. I collect quite a few different things. Usually I start before the craze sets in. I buy what I like. In a few years, the prices soar and I wasn't "smart" enough to hoard all I could find and can't afford what I like any more. It's sad but true and it takes a lot of the fun out of the hobby. -- http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 20 13:41:17 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 In-Reply-To: <199703201858.KAA19308@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> from "Christopher Heer" at Mar 20, 97 01:57:17 pm Message-ID: <199703201941.OAA23962@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Christopher Heer once stated: > > Captain Napalm sez: > > > At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it > >might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and > >today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to > >scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. > > Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary > memory. Yup. Without any SIMMS, the system just sits there producing vast amounts of nothing quite fast. With memory installed, I get the bad CMOS error, then vast amounts of nothing quite fast. There are eight banks for memory. I have enough to fill two (2 4M 72 pin SIMMS from IBM). I don't think the memory is bad. I installed the simms starting from the wrong end the first time (hard to tell which end to start filling from). When I started from the other end, I got the error message. > > Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long > >on the screen): > > > Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada > > > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. > > How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the > hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out. Oh, two minutes maybe. Nothing very long. > > I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before > >going to alt.folklore.computers. > > > 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use > > a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past > > the bad CMOS? > > Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be > proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it. Well, keyboards aren't a problem - I have several IBM ones. They set the standard, after all 8-) > > 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the > > ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V > > Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface > > 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs > > are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm > > wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. > > Depends on how you define "common" and "easily," but yeah, you should be able to > find it and replace it. They last a long time, though; I'd resolve the config > issue before replacing it. That is, if I can get it to say something other than bad CMOS. -spc (Sigh. Back to work) From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Mar 20 13:53:25 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 In-Reply-To: <199703201858.KAA19308@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970320145325.00876100@mail.northernway.net> At 01:57 PM 3/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >Captain Napalm sez: >> At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it >>might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and >>today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to >>scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. >Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary >memory. Well, I dunno about the rest of the world, but my geezer '286 Zenith took standard 30-pin parity memory. I did try non-parity memory... the monitor (over and over) just kept spitting up "Parity Error..." I have 3Megs in 'er now, looking to go to 6 (someday)... >> 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use >> a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past >> the bad CMOS? > >Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be >proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it. I got what I thought was a bad keyboard with my Z... so I put el-cheapo on it and it works fine... Then when I tore apart my Z keyboard I found a little switch called "XT - AT".. If you have a switchable keyboard (on my Z there's a small removeable panel in the upper left corner [i believe... keyboard home, me work]) double-check it's on AT. Hope this helps! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From CHEER at us.oracle.com Thu Mar 20 16:55:03 1997 From: CHEER at us.oracle.com (Christopher Heer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 Message-ID: <199703201959.LAA12613@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Captain Napalm sez: >It was thus said that the Great Christopher Heer once stated: >> Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary >> memory. > Yup. Without any SIMMS, the system just sits there producing vast amounts >of nothing quite fast. With memory installed, I get the bad CMOS error, >then vast amounts of nothing quite fast. Well that's pretty ironclad. I doubt you're having a memory problem. >> > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. >> How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the >> hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out. > Oh, two minutes maybe. Nothing very long. Let it go longer. Sweartagod I've seen PC's take 15 minutes to error out. Also, if there's a hard disk controller installed, yank it. It may make it time out faster. And as someone else mentioned, Zenith was fond of using Ctrl-Alt-Ins as the keystroke combination to get into setup. Give that a go. -- Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 Fax: (312) 726-4635 Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas From jeffh at eleventh.com Tue Mar 18 13:48:36 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >> Also, how many of you remember the old "pong" game that had the paddles >> built into the unit? My family had one of those, I'd like to know where >> it is now! :-) >My brother still has one of those and I found one at the Goodwill for a couple >bucks. They're still around but pretty rare. I have a SuperPong, which is a console with the two paddle controllers built in, just as in Pong, but it is selectable between 4 different games. We bought this new somewhere in the 1977-78 time frame if I remember correctly. I entertained a 4 and 6 year old with it a couple weekends ago! Jeff Jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Tue Mar 18 14:01:18 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >There were many "Speech Synthesizer" modules released. Most of them had to >do with entertainment packages, but there also many for education as well. > Education packages included the Scott, Foresman series were the computer >would say the numbers and letters to children, and for entertainment, there >was Alpiner, Parsec, M*A*S*H, Star Trek, Microsurgeon, and many, many others. Actually, I was referring to the modules that were to plug into the Speech Synthesizer itself, beneath the flip-top. Numerous references mention them, and though on my Synthesizer, there isn't a connector in it for the module, I was wondering if maybe some early examples were shipped with one. Even the Speech Synthesizer manual mentions the cartridges. >There are more than 373 words to choose from. In fact, with the Terminal >Emulator II cartridge, you have unlimited "text-to-speech" capability. > Literally anything you type in can be spoken. Sometimes you would have to >make the the pronunciation spellings different in order for this to work, but >mostly, it was fine. Extended BASIC was the only cartridge that limited >"text-to-speech", but even then TI later released a "text-to-speech" diskette >which would allow the user to type in anything (much like the Terminal >Emulator II, and Speech Editor). I got the 373 word limit from the Synthesizer manual, though I've not counted up the words in the list it shows. I plan on playing with TE-II once I recieive the RS232 board for my PEBox. It'd be interesting having it speak the ascii data as it came across! >I just picked up a Speech Editor cartridge for $20 from someone who was >selling it along with other old TI stuff. Expect to pay this, or more for it >- as it is rare. I just got it, and I can't even use it because I don't have >the manual. That's fine with me...BTW, here's another question regarding the GROM cartridges. When did Atari begin making the arcade game cartridges for the TI-99/4A? Most people admit that TI didn't allow much 3rd party software to be produced initially, yet here is one of their competitors writing programs for it. I have the Donkey Kong and Pac Man cartridges, and they are both dated 1983. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 20 15:50:41 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... In-Reply-To: from "hellige" at Mar 19, 97 01:01:18 am Message-ID: <199703202150.QAA24192@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great hellige once stated: > > I got the 373 word limit from the Synthesizer manual, though I've not > counted up the words in the list it shows. I plan on playing with TE-II once > I recieive the RS232 board for my PEBox. It'd be interesting having it speak > the ascii data as it came across! That might get real old, real quick. One of the comm programs on the Amiga allows you to pipe the data stream through the narrator device, and for kicks, I tried it. Once. Even piping the output of programs to the narrator device was entertaining for about 20 minutes or so ... -spc ("Sun-day-March-three-one-nine-nine-one-foo-dot-bar-three-seven-star star-star-break-Amiga-Prompt ... ") From BigLouS at aol.com Thu Mar 20 21:45:59 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors Message-ID: <970320224553_1452418268@emout20.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-20 13:55:54 EST jimw@agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) wrote: > I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the > media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment > costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed > people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved > 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it! Well said. Publicity is not always a good thing. imw@agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) also wrote: Me, I'm doing new board layouts and am planning to reconstruct a 'Mark-8' or two... Anyone else interested in a board set? I might be, post some details. Lou From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 20 22:25:50 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Hello all! References: <199703191648.JAA12906@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <33320DCD.2C8B@goldrush.com> Jim wrote: > > If you can find a book called Basic Computer Games by David Ahl (I think there > were about 4 volumes, actually, but I have volume 1) > I know of three volumes by David Ahl, BASIC COMPUTER GAMES, MORE BASIC COMPUTER GAMES and BIG COMPUTER GAMES (the third seem to be direct re-prints of games articles published in Creative Comuting judging from the artwork and copy layout.) There are also the Best of Creative Computing (I think 3 volumes were done) which include alot of nifty discussion on different sorting techniques and the like, a pity such 'BASIC' things are not as accessible to today's youth (everything is coded in the high-level languages of today...). > > Some of the games are very short - a dozen lines or so. Others, like > Star Trek mentioned above, are hundreds. To tell the truth I don't know > really how much programming I learned with it, except when we were > hacking the sound routines into Trek, of course, but they're good > books with good games. > I agree it is a good way to learn some tricks and stuff, but do have a BASIC guide (that describes commands and such) for your particular syustem, as many of the programs have commands that may not work the same on all machines (The front of the books usually have tips on converting the programs to many popular computers of the time). Larry Anderson From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 20 23:01:10 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors References: <199703201814.AA06383@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: <33321615.671C@goldrush.com> William Donzelli wrote: > > My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are > still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and > probably will, backfire. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net I agree, there are alot of lazy people out there trying to make a fast buck, if they even had the hint of possible cash from their VIC-20 they would be banging on your door demanding you pay them $300 for the thing. Take for instance, baseball cards, you know those thin pieces of cheap to decent quality CARDBOARD, or dolls, or old toys, etc. Just be glad no one has compiled a list or a sellers/buyers guide my friends! The post about the Altair skyrocketing is probably due to the hype generated by Steve Levy's Hackers as well as the media about the Altair being 'the first home computer', I've notiuced a bunch of ya-hoos on the internet looking for their bit of computer history (which they never experienced till they got their IBM clone and they probably well be dissapointed to learn that they can't even run Lotus on it.) I get computers mainly because I ran a Commodore Group and am the area's contact for Commodore information, so people come up and ask me, 'hey you got any use for a ???' I usually say no, I collect them but am too broke to buy em; they ususually give em to me, (thanks mainly to my assistance I had provided in years past). Also thrift shops and used bookstores, some bookstores will toss the older computer books (after being burned by all those punched-card machine texts floding them years back), so make sure you let them know you appreciate them having the older micro books. Larry Anderson From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 20 23:11:31 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... References: <199703202150.QAA24192@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <33321883.7B55@goldrush.com> Captain Napalm wrote: > > > That might get real old, real quick. One of the comm programs on the > Amiga allows you to pipe the data stream through the narrator device, and > for kicks, I tried it. Once. > > Even piping the output of programs to the narrator device was entertaining > for about 20 minutes or so ... > > -spc ("Sun-day-March-three-one-nine-nine-one-foo-dot-bar-three-seven-star > star-star-break-Amiga-Prompt ... ") One gem that took me about ten years to aquire after seeing the initial ad was an Alien Voicebox voice synthesiser (was initially available for the Commodore and Atari as I remember). An extrnal voice unit that plugs into the Commodore's parallel port, the nifty thing about the Voicebox was there was so much control to it and the voice was not software based like the Amiga or SAM. The most amazing companion disk is the music disk where you can compose a three voice piece for the Commodore and have the Voicebox SING along! Does a pretty darn good job; the Amazing Grace and Star Spangled Banner are well done. Larry Anderson From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 21 00:07:40 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Any ORIC owners here? Message-ID: <199703210607.WAA00667@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970320/1c1ad877/attachment.ksh From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 21 00:00:48 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Atari 800xe ? Message-ID: <19970321071732661.AAB104@computer-name> > Common European Computer (esp. Germany): > > Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe) > Really? There was the 800, 800lx, and the 130xe. I think I heard of a 600ex game system, but I never heard of an 800ex. What are its specs? mhop@snip.net From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 01:29:23 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Laser500 In-Reply-To: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Stefan Walgenbach wrote: > >> Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, > > ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a > > Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from > > the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of > > are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?). > > are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box > with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case. Well, my source for this info was the March, 1983 issue of COMPUTE! magazine, in the article entitled "New Home Computers At The Winter Consumer Electronics Show": "....Three new computers reatiling for $99 were shown at the show, including the first one with color. The colour model is the VZ200, the first home computer from Video Technologies Ltd., a company with two factories in Hong Kong. Promised for delivery by April, the VZ200 comes with 4K of RAM, expandable to 16K ($45) or 64K (price not yet determined)...." > I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible machine, or is it something entirely different? I'd like instructions on how to use the SOUND, NOISE, SOUND DEF, and SOUND TEMPO extended BASIC commands if you have such information. Also PAINT, as I haven't yet figured out the syntax for that one, either. LASER Tapes? Did the Laser use something other than standard audio cassettes? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Fri Mar 21 02:00:01 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Atari 800xe ? Message-ID: <01BC35D5.DC776690@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> -----Original Message----- From: mhop [SMTP:mhop@snip.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 8:21 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Atari 800xe ? >> Common European Computer (esp. Germany): >> >> Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe) >> > > Really? There was the 800, 800lx, and the 130xe. I think I heard of a > 600ex game system, but I never heard of an 800ex. What are its specs? I have a 800XE new in the box for ex. east germany. It looks like a 130XE but has only 64kB. If you are interested in further details I can check the instuction booklet. Anyone interested in 800XEs? I can try to get hold of some ... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2713 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970321/1c4a2aa3/attachment.bin From kevan at motiv.co.uk Fri Mar 21 02:01:22 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <9703191922.AA03982@aztec.asu.edu> Message-ID: <199703210801.IAA08333@cream.motiv.co.uk> Have people seen the "Comprehensive Computer Catalogue"? It currently lists 2863 computers. The URL is: http://columbia.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/ Unfortunately it hasn't been updated for about a year now, and I have not been able to contact the author about this because I would like to take over the running of the catalogue. I have sort of made a start to this by transforing the HTML pages into a CSV file ready for import into a database. It will not take me long to knock together a bit of Python to output some HTML pages. I would also like to add fields to the database so any ideas are welcome. Kevan Old Computer Collector: From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 02:01:39 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970319114040.00f908c4@lion.documentum.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, George Lin wrote: > Hi all, > > I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The > system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot > disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I Hey! I currently have a similar problem. I brought a Kaypro II home recently (last week? I've forgotten already) and although it had a boot disk in the drive, it wasn't an OS disk, and I can't format disks or other boot disks. And the disk that was in the drive (a pirate copy of WordStar) is flaky. I transferred FORMAT.COM and SYSGEN.COM from my TeleVideo system, but they gave me little more than the (C)1982 TeleVideo Systems message before hanging the Kaypro. > remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible > with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an > Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one? Seek out the comp.os.cpm FAQ. There is information in there on how to get boot disks for CP/M systems. I'm still hoping to find someone with a Kaypro II locally. I generally sit on these things for a while to see what turns up before becoming really active in seeking things out. In case you can't get the Osborne disk anywhere else (doubtful) I do know a chap who ran a BBS on an Osborne until recently. He should have what you're looking for. I could bug him to send you one if you send the relevant information to me in e-mail. > Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne > formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it. You should be able to also xfer software to the Osborne with a utility for the PC called 22disk. Get it at: oak.oakland.edu: /pub/msdos/diskutil/22dsk142.zip I've used it a couple of times myself (in fact that's how I got those files from my TeleVideo to the Kaypro) but you need an IBM-compatible PC with a 5.25" disk drive (preferably 360K) which is something I don't have. I actually had to open up my father's PC to plug in a 5.25" drive just for that one operation. :/ > In the same store, I picked up a Peripheral Expansion Box for my TI 99/4A. > It comes with 1 floppy disk drive, 32K memory expansion, serial adapter, > and flex cable adapter. However, the fuse and the cap that holds the fuse > in place are gone. Does anyone know the specification for the fuse or know > where I can get a replacement for it and the cap? Heh. This also sounds familiar. I have a CBM 2040 drive, sans fuse and cap. I know at least one of the drive units works, as I got a directory from a 1541 disk on my PET while holding a screwdriver in the fuse socket. Don't do this at home. :) > Any help is greatly appreciated. > > George > -- > George Lin "Accelerating your business through > Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." > Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com > Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int > My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Fri Mar 21 02:09:13 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Laser500 Message-ID: <01BC35D7.2579A0A0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> -----Original Message----- From: Doug Spence [SMTP:ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca] Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 8:34 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Laser500 >> are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box >> with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case. > Well, my source for this info was the March, 1983 issue of COMPUTE! > magazine, in the article entitled "New Home Computers At The Winter > Consumer Electronics Show": > "....Three new computers reatiling for $99 were shown at the show, > including the first one with color. > The colour model is the VZ200, the first home computer from Video > Technologies Ltd., a company with two factories in Hong Kong. Promised > for delivery by April, the VZ200 comes with 4K of RAM, expandable to 16K > ($45) or 64K (price not yet determined)...." That sounds correct - HongKong is mentioned on the box. Maybe Video Technologies was a unkown name at this time. I have the 16k-Ram Expansion card you mention so it looks like that this announce was not completely vapourous ... >> I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? > > Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible > machine, or is it something entirely different? I will check this but I this it has a Z80 ... >>I'd like instructions on >how to use the SOUND, NOISE, SOUND DEF, and SOUND TEMPO extended BASIC >commands if you have such information. Also PAINT, as I haven't yet >figured out the syntax for that one, either. sorry I don't have a single line of doc for my machines. > LASER Tapes? Did the Laser use something other than standard audio > cassettes? No I don't think so - but they have made a special cassett-player. Does anyone know how to load a file from a tape with a LASER? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3600 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970321/6fc6bd46/attachment.bin From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 02:17:22 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? In-Reply-To: <199703201055.EAA10712@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Douglas Zander wrote: > Hello, > I was just wondering how many old computers do you think get dumped in > the landfill each year? Do people realize that there are collectors out > there for these old computers? I suspect that an awful lot do get dumped. The reason I suspect this is that even a store I went to that dealt in old 8-bit hardware was dumping the more interesting systems and only keeping stuff that was somewhat profitable for them (Apple ][, C64, Atari ST, Amiga). I only went to the store once (*hated* the prices and the staff) but while there I was told that a complete, functioning CBM 8032 system with 8250 drive unit had been tossed into the dumpster behind the store, because someone had brought it in and the store staff didn't think they'd be able to sell it. I should probably have made a point of making regular visits after that, to ensure that such atrocities did not get repeated, but the store was well out of my way and I didn't have the time. I did get a CardBoard for the VIC-20, though, that was on its way to the trash that day, with a Quick Brown Fox cart still plugged into it. > Also, how many of you remember the old "pong" game that had the paddles > built into the unit? My family had one of those, I'd like to know where > it is now! :-) Sorry, I don't have it! ;) > -- > Douglas Zander | many things interest me, too many to list > dzander@solaria.sol.net | here. if you want a profile :-) why not > Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA | send me a letter? tell me about yourself, > "Over-looking Lake Michigan." | I'll tell you about myself. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 03:00:40 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Laser computers from VTL In-Reply-To: <01BC35D7.2579A0A0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Stefan Walgenbach wrote: > That sounds correct - HongKong is mentioned on the box. Maybe Video > Technologies was a unkown name at this time. I have the 16k-Ram Expansion > card you mention so it looks like that this announce was not completely > vapourous ... There's actually five complete paragraphs in the article dealing with the VZ200 and Video Technologies Ltd. which I could type in if you're interested. It was VTL's first computer, so indeed they may not have been well known yet. I actually hadn't heard of them until I found my Laser 3000 in a thrift shop. > >> I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? > > > > Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible > > machine, or is it something entirely different? > > I will check this but I this it has a Z80 ... Well, nope, that wouldn't be Apple-compatible! My Laser 3000 is Apple compatible. Sort of. But the thing has a very "prototype" feel to it. There are several bugs in the BASIC, some software decisions that weren't too bright, and when I had to open it to fix the power supply (a wire from the socket into the PS had actually worked loose!) I noticed what looked like hand soldering and some "corrections" with pieces of wire going between pins of chips. Ewww! :) Also the colour set it displays in the extended graphics modes seems to depend on the phase of the moon. Not for the basic 8 colours, but for "mixed" colours made with alternating pixels... something I wouldn't normally consider "legal", but for an Apple clone is positivily FANTASTIC! :) Oh, there are some hardware bugs, too, dealing with the graphics modes. And I'm not entirely convinced that the sound chip is completely accessible. If Video Technologies always made systems like this... well, interesting, but a bit shoddy. :) > sorry I don't have a single line of doc for my machines. Nor do I, but I always hope. I've made some docs of my own for the L3000. > Does anyone know how to load a file from a tape with a LASER? On my Laser 3000, it's done in the same way as on the Apple ][. You even have to get into the monitor to load machine language files. I was actually testing software on it by loading it on the Apple from disk, finding the starting address and length, and saving to cassette. The Laser's cassette in was connected to the Apple's cassette out, with an amplifier between. That worked well, and quite a lot of the games I tried worked. A lot of my old BASIC programs didn't work, though. :/ Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 21 08:28:56 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Laser computers from VTL In-Reply-To: References: <01BC35D7.2579A0A0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970321092856.0082d270@mail.northernway.net> At 04:00 AM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Stefan Walgenbach wrote: >Also the colour set it displays in the extended graphics modes seems to >depend on the phase of the moon. Not for the basic 8 colours, but for >"mixed" colours made with alternating pixels... something I wouldn't >normally consider "legal", but for an Apple clone is positivily >FANTASTIC! :) The "mixed" colors are created thru a phenomenon called "color artifacting." This happens when you try to display thin (vertical usually) white lines on a color TV. The TV cannot show lines that thin on the phosphor grid, so you end up activating only the (usually) blue or red pixels. The Color Computer 1 / 2 had the same "problem" and many programs for this took advantage of this to show color for the highest-resolution which was monochrome. I think it's the phase of the video sync that changes with respect to the TV that makes the colors swap... Many of the CoCo programs that used this technique actually remapped the reset key so it would re-enter the program, and showed a test screen with 2 boxes and "this should be blue" under one and "this should be red" under the other. You just kept resetting the computer (without having to re-load the pgm every time) until the colors synced correctly. Helpful for RPG's that said "you need the blue key..." Of course, when we "geeks" upgraded to the RGB monitor on the CoCo 3, we lost all color artifacting... and the games became almost totally unplayable. (No! You need the *other* white-striped key!) ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu Fri Mar 21 09:12:44 1997 From: jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Compaq Model III, anyone? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970319000419.00719378@mail.mcja.com> from "Brian Boys" at Mar 18, 97 04:04:19 pm Message-ID: <199703211512.KAA10280@saturn.ee.nd.edu> > > Would anyone like to have (ie, for FREE) a Compaq Model III? > It's one of those newfangled 286s, but it does have a cool fold-out LCD > screen. The 5 1/2 floppy works but the hard drive is doubtful. > > If you're interested e-mail me to figure out how to get it to you. > > Brian > bboys@mcja.com > > If you still have it, I am interested. John Ott ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 11:00:07 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > If you feel that a seperate list is > > still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web > > sites and how good you think they are. The links section on the CCL web page is growing daily and will start to be commented before long. If any of you know of good sites - let me know and I'll add those too. > Firstly, the various web sites are all in different formats, making it > difficult to make comparisons. Perhaps you cannot even find the > information you are interested in. If we make our own list, we can decide > together what information we need and put it together in a standardized > way. This would also facilitate sorting. Say that I want to know what > micros with at least 64K RAM existed before the C64 was released. I wish > you good luck if you want to hunt this information down on the web sites > and present it in a uniform fashion. Also, having a nice complete list can be an asset to people doing history sites / nostalgia sites on these computers. Rather than being in competition with existing information I see a list as a way to help bring the whole WWW mess together. > Thirdly (and in my opinion most importantly) you can never say for sure > what web sites are still there tomorrow. Maintainers move and take their > pages with them, or they may decide that they no longer have the time or > resources to keep it up, or the archives may be reorganized and all links > end up in void, or an ISP may go belly-up, or... And after all, this is a University Job I've got so even if I leave I can probably shove the whole thing onto some student :)) Regardless of mertit, the list almost ready to get going ;). Dan Tucker (of this list) has done some great html work and I think the result will be much more useful that what I first envisioned. Every- body say "Thanks, Dan!" I'll post again when thigs are ready to go. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 11:08:13 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:55 2005 Subject: Whoops! Message-ID: Y'know, every once in a while you shoot out a message and immediatly realize you just did something embarrasing. And there's not a damn thing you can do ;). I just said to thank Dan Tucker for the html work on the comp list. And within seconds of pressing send remembered that actually it's a shared mailbox and the guy I've been chatting with for that last few days is, in fact - Brett Crapser. So, everybody say "Thanks, Brett!" And I'll go bury my head in the sand :x Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 11:13:24 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Whoops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > Y'know, every once in a while you shoot out a message and > immediatly realize you just did something embarrasing. And > there's not a damn thing you can do ;). That's OK Bill. Dan can't even set the clock on his VCR 8-) But he does make some nice Videos. By the way - Do you hold down "Clock" while press "hour" or "minute" 8-) BC From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 11:38:53 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok people! I am setting up a test run for the following times - (Gulp) Saturday 14:00 CST to 16:00 CST (that's -6 GMT) Testing for data entry - Please email me if you have suggestions or problems. Sunday 10:00 CST to 12:00 CST Testing for automatic page generation - I will be watching 8-) Sunday 18:00 CST to 20:00 CST If everything is OK, we will be accepting LIVE data. I expect this all to be moved to the CCL web page area - if they can handle it. I don't expect to lose any data, even during the trial runs and will be converting pages on the fly - so to speak. I have not completed some of the search routines, some of you wanted more data flexability than I can give - right now 8-) Currently I am running Matt Wright's Search engine and I want to modify it - give me some ideas! You can look at what's there (only the Rainbow that - sorry - someone supplied on the list. I have modified some of the data but it is basically pretty freeform. If you have pics online, there is a place to put your URL for them. I am currently trying to think of a way to have more than one per page 8-( (the problem is the modification of existing pages) The URL is - http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/index.html There is no link to it from the main page. PLEASE PLEASE BE GENTLE!!!!!! 8-) BC From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 13:04:54 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: S-100 Lovers! Old Digital Research Operating Systems(fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm >From: gee@linda.teleport.com (Chuck Gee) Date: 21 Mar 1997 10:48:15 -0800 Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 S100 cards for sale. Make offer. ================================= This is my second posting of this ad. The first time around, about 1/2 of the cards found new homes. Since these are the leftovers, I am willing to consider any reasonable offer. Most have no documentation, but have been removed from working systems (mostly from a BBS I once ran). If you live in the Northwest, these are located in Corvallis, Oregon, and you can get to them any weekday. Otherwise, UPS ground prefered. quantity part# mfg. desc. ======== ===== ==== ===== 3 INTERFACER 3 GODBOUT/COMPUPRO 8 CHANNEL SERIAL 1/O (1 interfacer 3 technical manual included) ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 PWA.05-00060 MOUNTAIN COMPUTER 100,000 DAY CLOCK ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 RAM 21 GODBOUT ELECTRONICS 64K X 16 RAM CARD ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 CPU 86/87 GODBOUT 8086-1 CPU CARD ---------------------------------------------------------------- 2 SYSTEM SUPPORT 1 COMPUPRO I/O, CLOCK,MATH, INT, ETC.. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 UFDC-1 COMPU/TIME FLOPPY DISK CONTROLLER ---------------------------------------------------------------- 5 SCP400B,C SEATTLE COMPUTER MULTIPORT SERIAL CARD ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Suntronics Co., inc CLOCK/CALENDAR ================================================================ I also have the following manuals that I will send off for the price of shipping, or will include with some/all of the above cards. Digital Research CP/M-86 Operating System User's Guide -- Digital Research Concurrent CP/M User's Guide/Utilities Guide -- Gifford Computer Systems Multiuser Concurrent DOS User's Manual (includes a pile of 8" diskettes) ================================================================= 6 assorted S-100 motherboards ================================================================= A "pile" of 14 assorted S100 cards that have never been used by me and are untested. I picked them up (used) for future use, but never got around to firing them up. Their condition is unknown, and I'd like to sell them as one batch. They've been sitting in my warehouse for 15 years, and are pretty dusty. ================================================================= Please contact me at gee@teleport.com if interested in any of the above. Thanks... ========================================================================== For an Online, Interactive Science-Fiction Adventure, please point your browser to: http://www.teleport.com/~gee/oiin.html ========================================================================== -- gee@teleport.com Hope someone can use this - before it gets chucked that is 8-) BC From MTapley at swri.edu Fri Mar 21 01:20:00 1997 From: MTapley at swri.edu (MTapley@swri.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: Brett, I couldn't help myself (and besides, I won't have web-acess this weekend) and looked already. This is gonna be way, way, way cool. I have some minor questions/suggestions. 1) Check those features/dates/etc I posted for the Rainbow with somebody who actually knows. I have not done so, and they were just from my often-flaky memory. Some real Rainbow expert should please chime in here and set me straight on whatever I missed. 2) There actually does exist a Rainbow web site. Under construction at the moment, its url is: http://b61984.student.cwru.edu/rainbow.htm Can users just enter a link like that instead of a link to an image? Or can you add a field for that kind of link? 3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info? In any case, *thanks* for setting this up. I am really looking forward to browsing this site. - Mark From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 21 13:46:30 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970321144630.0089c4a0@mail.northernway.net> At 07:20 AM 3/21/97 UTC, you wrote: >Brett, Hey... I just remembered where there is another old computer database... AAMOF, I submitted the information about the CoCo 3 to the guy who runs it... Check out this URL: http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~axc/MACHINE-ROOM/welcome.html the Database isn't overly huge, and doesn't have database, or auto-add, or any of that jazz, but it's got a beautiful layout and some really strange machines in it (including a pic & listing for the Video Technology Laser 200... Send a mail to Alex (full name: Alexios Chouchoulas) at: machroom@vennea.demon.co.uk to know more, or submit some info about a particular machine to him as well. Now, before everyone blows a cork, I'm certainly not trying to show up Brett or anyone, and to some personal experience in the matter, I'm 2000% in favor of having a backup of just about everything, including mailing lists. Besides, no one site is going to be able to cover every single computer out there, etc. etc. etc. However, with some cooperation, we can make sure that a lot of this information won't fall by the wayside if someone decides not to keep up their site... If that happens, communication will help save us if we *know* there's someone else we can rely on to help keep info available. Enough rambling, anyway, Brett: gnarly list! CoCo listing looks good! I'll add a link to it on my page when I get a chance. (read: the second Tuesday of next week.... I are a bizzy boi) Roger Out, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 13:50:57 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 MTapley@swri.edu wrote: > Brett, > I couldn't help myself (and besides, I won't have web-acess this > weekend) and looked already. Just to let all of you know - I am sneaky 8-) I know you were - I saw you You made me look because the counter went up - but no new page! > This is gonna be way, way, way cool. I hope so! > I have some minor questions/suggestions. > > 1) Check those features/dates/etc I posted for the Rainbow with somebody who > actually knows. I have not done so, and they were just from my often-flaky > memory. Some real Rainbow expert should please chime in here and set me > straight on whatever I missed. I know, This has be a slight thorn for me. I certainly don't know about EVERY computer EVER made. This is something that will take time. But facts don't change and eventually everything will get ironed out. > 2) There actually does exist a Rainbow web site. Under construction at the > moment, its url is: http://b61984.student.cwru.edu/rainbow.htm > Can users just enter a link like that instead of a link to an image? Or can > you add a field for that kind of link? That is what the Support area is about. If you know how to do HTML, you can actually enter the URL yourself. I do not magically make the new pages appear yet (security BS - you know) so I can check these things out. I think from the CoCo entry now available, that I may have made the size and amount of data *a leetle too small*. That's what the testing is all about. Show me where I went wrong and how I can fix it. > 3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent > net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each > computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the > responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or > maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info? Ya I been kinda worried about that too. I really don't want to do it and I'm PRETTY sure Bill doesn't (correct me if I'm wrong Bill 8-) I don't like the idea that - just anybody - could change it. They could just add a new page anyway 8-) and then email from those *offended* 8-) could be used to straighten it out. > In any case, *thanks* for setting this up. I am really looking forward > to browsing this site. > - Mark Time will tell! BC From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 14:29:05 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > 3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent > > net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each > > computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the > > responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or > > maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info? > > Ya I been kinda worried about that too. I really don't want to do it and > I'm PRETTY sure Bill doesn't (correct me if I'm wrong Bill 8-) I don't > like the idea that - just anybody - could change it. They could just add > a new page anyway 8-) and then email from those *offended* 8-) could be > used to straighten it out. Well, I've been chewing this over... I don't mind doing the changes when they come up. As with everything else I am slow - but I'm going to assume that, for the most part, initial information will be accurate and changes will be relatively minor. It may take a week or two for things to get updated, but if everyone can live with that - just send changes to me. Also, it sounds like the Encyclopedia is going to be housed on the CCL site before too long so you all might not want to go linking it just yet. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 21 16:54:15 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 18, 97 01:44:17 pm Message-ID: <199703212254.RAA27244@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Whitson once stated: > > One step ahead of me already! When I was playing with the potential > ClassicCmp web site last night I set aside an area for a project like > this. If people are interested I'll be happy to collect and compile > listings and post them up. Be aware that 1. I am the world worst > HTML scripter and 2. I do all ClassicCmp work on my break. So, it > will be ugly and slowly put together ;). > This is just a suggestion, but you might want to add an availability field, something like: Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very many. Connection Machines, Crays, and the Apple I fall into this catagory. You will almost never find one "in the wild" so to speak. Rare - Only made for a year or so. Quite a bit were made, but are hard to find. An Apple Lisa, or Altair would fit this catagory. Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually have to hunt around, but persistence pays off. Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not fall into this catagory (IMHO). Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be here (again IMHO). Abundant - the era of the PClone. Can't go to a thrift store, auction, ham fest, etc without finding hundreds if not thousands of old units. Mostly noname brands. -spc (Just my two bytes worth ... ) From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 17:20:07 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Regular Post: Mailing Lists Message-ID: ClassicCmp Regular Posting Mailing Lists and How to Talk to the List Robot This message is posted with frequency proportional to subscription rate (or monthly). Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. How to Talk to the Robot There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message to listproc@u.washington.edu. In the body of the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands. Then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages rather than each as it is posted. With this option you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. That's the basics. If you need to know more just drop me a line at bcw@u.washington.edu. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 17:20:46 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Regular Posting: FAQ Message-ID: ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.0 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisments? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection (just hoarding), restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? Any computer that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson. I'm a network administrator at the University of Washington. This is one of my hobbies and I got tired of waiting for someone else to create a list like this. I can be reached at bcw@u.washington.edu. 1.5 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. Damn straight. That's what the internet's all about. 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames? Yep. Lots of bulky computer folks here. 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't post repeatedly. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 200, fluxing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Don't bother asking me. If you really want to know go ahead and post to the list. I really don't know what having a number will do for you... 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then , precisely as much as I'll pay for it. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collectors tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes. Save a computer! Act now! Remind you wife of the rhino and cuter, furrier animals. It might work. From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 18:06:22 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Digests Message-ID: Due to popular demand digesting has been enabled. Furthermore, it has been changed since this morning from weekly to daily distribution. Digests will be sent at 23:59 each day. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Fri Mar 21 20:51:42 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like: > Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very > many. How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. > Rare - Only made for a year or so. I'd put into this category the Classic DEC PDP-8, and orginal Data General Novas. PDP-12s might go here (production run of ~1000). > Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. I'm speculating at this point, but I'd tend to lump Prime equipment and Interdata gear in this one. You can find them, but it's a lucky find. Later Novas and Eclipses might fit here. > Common - Fairly easy to find. DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be made for the 11/20 to fall into the "uncommon" classification. This class is especially appropriate for early- to mid- life 11s. > Abundant - the era of the PClone. Can't go to a thrift > store, auction, ham fest, etc without finding > hundreds if not thousands of old units. This is a level of concentration that you'll never find with mini- computers. In this class, I'd tend to place late-life-cycle pdp11s, like the 11/84 and up, and various classes of small VAXen. Note that in many cases these machines are still performing their assigned tasks and may not be de-commissioned for several years to come. I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro- based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks, through their study of machines' history, become aware of what is now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago. Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also good to sit in front of the blinking lights and work switches to program the machine. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From jeffh at eleventh.com Wed Mar 19 04:23:12 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Printer Ribbon Source Message-ID: This is for all of you that are searching for obsolete printer ribbons. I found ribbons for my Commodore MPS-803 printer at the following web page, and they seem to have a pretty good selection and range. It is 'Universal Ribbon and Imaging Products: Computer Ribbons' and theURL is: http://www.unirib.com/doc/comprib.htm Hope this helps for those of you that were in need of a source for hard to find ribbons. Jeff -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 21:56:31 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > > > but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good > Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like: > > How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? > Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard > Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. Well, heck, Carl - stick them in then! Hell-o I have a PDP-11/23! And I'm writing the list! I just don't have the memory any more (my neurons are failing faster than my MSV11-DBs!) BC From BigLouS at aol.com Fri Mar 21 22:21:00 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Atari 800xe ? Message-ID: <970321232100_-1739195729@emout02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-21 03:01:19 EST, you write: > Anyone interested in 800XEs? I can try to get hold of some ... I certainly would be. Lou From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 22 10:06:26 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970322104458.00a3fa70@mail.northernway.net> At 05:54 PM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually > have to hunt around, but persistence pays off. > Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not > fall into this catagory (IMHO). > > Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be > here (again IMHO). Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are *much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the most what one owns or has owned. Dumb kid: "What the heck kinda car is that... it looks funny." Grandpa: "Son, that's a '47 Pontiac (or Mercury, or... insert personal favorite here) with a xxx V-8 engine & bla, bla, bla. I used to have one of those in my heyday, when I was a ..........." [[a week passes, same car]] Dumb kid: "What the heck kinda car is that... it looks funny....." My point is there was an immense production of the Color Computer (there must... I own 3 myself) and in my little town of 14,000, I can name people who still own and use them, but the last Amiga I saw in this town was almost 10 years ago. Mind you, I'm not saying they're not around... I'm saying I don't see/take note of them, because I prefer Color Computers... You have a good suggestion, but I think that instead of just an arbitrary listing of who notices what or what might never be seen in a particular region (Amigas in Sault Ste. Marie, Color Computers in the Ukraine, ad nauseum...) that it should be based on actual production statistics when available. I can give you one bit of information: The Tandy Color Computer line was in production longer than any other 8-bit (and some 16-bit) home computer. Anywho, that's my $0.00000002 (that's all it's worth), FWIW, which ain't much. Thanks for the bandwidth, Roger "Merch" Merchberger Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 10:15:04 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 21, 97 9:51 pm Message-ID: <199703231615.22692@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > > > but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good > Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like: > > > Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very > > many. > > How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? > Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard > Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger? Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. > > Common - Fairly easy to find. > > DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be Processors, maybe, but some of the peripherals are a lot rarer. How many people have heard of the DX11-B (IBM 360 or 370 channel interface for the PDP11), let alone seen one or the schematics to it? [...] > > I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing > life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro- > based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks, Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros (particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer equipment. If you have the space to run one (and it's not that much, actually), then a minicomputer is a very nice thing to have in a collection. You can learn a lot about the operation of a digital computer by taking one of the simpler minicomputers (I would not recomend starting with a PDP11/45, even though I did!) and figuring out exactly how it works. You can watch the control signals using almost any 'scope, particularly if you slow down the clock a bit. > through their study of machines' history, become aware of what is > now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago. > Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also The PERQ (sorry to keep on mentioning what I consider to be one of the finest machines ever made) has a minicomputer-like CPU (260+ chips, 74S181 ALUs, 2910 sequencer, etc) that you can get amongst together with a hi-res bitmapped display. > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 10:45:49 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) Message-ID: <33355E3D.34B@mich.com> Hello all, Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for developers to develop hardware and software based on their microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel. An interesting point of trivia is that Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M on the first 8080-based MDS called an Intellec 800. This system was based on the Multibus (a bus system developed by Intel and used in lots of industrical applications of single board comptuers). If you happen to buy a CP/M in the generic form it would run on one of those Intelled 800. Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and I need the double density version. Thanks. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 10:57:45 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <33355E3D.34B@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 11:45 am Message-ID: <199703231657.25543@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > Hello all, > > Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer > Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for > developers to develop hardware and software based on their > microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel. Yes, I have one, and most of the manuals. The only manual I am missing (I think) is the hardware reference for the ICE-80 in-circuit emulator for the 8080 processor. I have the hardware (2 multibus cards + probe) for that option. My system contains (I think) : 8080 CPU 4 off 16K RAM cards Bootstrap/monitor/bus controller I/O (for tty, paper tape, prom programmer, etc) ICE-80 Double-density floppy controller + 2 drives UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. > Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I > have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > I need the double density version. I have the double density disk controller + all the manuals, but obviously I want to keep it. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From danjo at xnet.com Sun Mar 23 11:11:13 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <33355E3D.34B@mich.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Dave Mabry wrote: > Hello all, > > An interesting point of trivia is that Gary Kildall originally developed > CP/M on the first 8080-based MDS called an Intellec 800. > > Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I > have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). Sure - I will discuss it! > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > I need the double density version. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Uh I don't think so! If you are *collecting* you maybe in deep trouble 8-) If you just are *using* then I think there are other options. Such as third-party hard and floppy controllers for the MultiBus. BC From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 15:59:12 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: Message-ID: <3335A7B0.1712@mich.com> Brett wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Dave Mabry wrote: snip... > > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > > I need the double density version. > > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > > Uh I don't think so! > > If you are *collecting* you maybe in deep trouble 8-) > If you just are *using* then I think there are other options. > Such as third-party hard and floppy controllers for the MultiBus. > > BC There are third party controllers for the multibus, but the ISIS-II operating system is tied to the one that Intel made. And unless the third party ones are hardware and software compatible, they would not work with ISIS. I have two computer systems that use them (Intellec 800 and Series II) and three sets of controller boards. However, two sets of the controller boards have a failed board each. Anyway, I have one good set, so I can run either system, just not both at the same time. I'll keep looking. I have found these kind of things at swap meets in the past. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 16:02:19 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335A7B0.1712@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 4:59 pm Message-ID: <199703232202.5232@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > I have two computer systems that use them (Intellec 800 and Series II) > and three sets of controller boards. However, two sets of the > controller boards have a failed board each. Anyway, I have one good > set, so I can run either system, just not both at the same time. I assume it's the same board in each set :-( What's the fault? I have schematics of that controller somewhere, so it should be possible to fix the existing one. I have no idea where to find the custom multibus interface chip or the 3000-series bit slice stuff any more, but unless the same chip has failed on both boards, you might be able to make one good one from the 2 dead ones. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 16:05:58 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: <199703231657.25543@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3335A946.462D@mich.com> A.R. Duell wrote: > > > > > Hello all, > > > > Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer > > Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for > > developers to develop hardware and software based on their > > microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel. > > Yes, I have one, and most of the manuals. The only manual I am missing (I > think) is the hardware reference for the ICE-80 in-circuit emulator for > the 8080 processor. I have the hardware (2 multibus cards + probe) for > that option. I have the ICE-80 as well, and used it many times (in the way past!). Intel was the first company to have in-circuit emulators (I believe) and that was the first one. It was a marvelous tool for system development. Seemed like magic at the time. > > My system contains (I think) : > > 8080 CPU > 4 off 16K RAM cards Fairly typical system (they came with 16k but you really needed 64k to do anything with language compilers under ISIS-II). > Bootstrap/monitor/bus controller > I/O (for tty, paper tape, prom programmer, etc) > ICE-80 > Double-density floppy controller + 2 drives > UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. Now the UPP is a unique device. It has personality boards for many different type of memories. There aren't too many eprom programmers out than can do 1702s, but it is one. > > > Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I > > have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). > > Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used > a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K > cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. I think the MCS8i was originally the Intellec 8. It was 8008 based, but there was an upgrade that made it an 8080 cpu. As old as I am, that one predates my experience. The Intellec 800 was my first development system. > > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > > I need the double density version. > > I have the double density disk controller + all the manuals, but obviously > I want to keep it. I suspect that most of them are going to be in the same situation. I'll keep looking. Take care. > -- > -tony > ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk > The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 16:13:57 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335A946.462D@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 5:05 pm Message-ID: <199703232213.5529@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > I have the ICE-80 as well, and used it many times (in the way past!). > Intel was the first company to have in-circuit emulators (I believe) and I'd _love_ an ICE-3000 (or whatever it's called) - the one for the 3000-series bit-slice chips. Do you happen to have any manuals on the ICE-80? I got all the other manuals for my system, but those, and the ICE-80 probe were missing. The probe turned up in a clearout 2 years later (!), but the manuals were never found. > > UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. > > Now the UPP is a unique device. It has personality boards for many Indeed. I think I have the 2708, 2716 and 8748 (!) personality boards. I have the 2 24 pin sockets on the front (alas - the 16 and 24 pin pair would probably have been more useful). The personality boards contain the 4001 ROMs containing the programming code for the particular EPROM. > different type of memories. There aren't too many eprom programmers out > than can do 1702s, but it is one. I don't have the 1702 personality board, but then my MCS8i can do 1702's, so it's no real problem... > > Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used > > a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K > > cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. > > I think the MCS8i was originally the Intellec 8. It was 8008 based, but Indeed it was. It says Intellec 8 on the front, but I seem to recall that MCS8i is written on it somewhere. I think mine was built as an 8080 system (The date codes on the CPU board are not much later than those on all the other boards, for example), rather than being upgraded. > there was an upgrade that made it an 8080 cpu. As old as I am, that one > predates my experience. The Intellec 800 was my first development > system. I bought my MCS8i at a radio rally (hamfest). It was a choice between that and an Altair. I personally think I bought the more interesting machine... > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 16:16:19 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: <199703232202.5232@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3335ABB3.5939@mich.com> A.R. Duell wrote: > > > I have two computer systems that use them (Intellec 800 and Series II) > > and three sets of controller boards. However, two sets of the > > controller boards have a failed board each. Anyway, I have one good > > set, so I can run either system, just not both at the same time. > > I assume it's the same board in each set :-( Yep. I've gone through many of these at work (in the 70s) and they always fail the same board. It has lots of analog circuitry on it and I suspect it is that part of it. > What's the fault? I have schematics of that controller somewhere, so it > should be possible to fix the existing one. I have no idea where to find > the custom multibus interface chip or the 3000-series bit slice stuff any > more, but unless the same chip has failed on both boards, you might be > able to make one good one from the 2 dead ones. The fault is very non-specific. When trying to boot it just returns a disk read failure. At that point the rom monitor is the only thing in charge and it is small. I thing it just says "error". I may try it again so I can be more specific. When we used them at work they were on a service contract, so I never had to mess with them. Just isolate which board was bad. If I get desperate I may try to fix it, but for now with one good set I can limp along. Don't use them very often, usually just to get files off of 8" diskettes. I also have the schematics. Thanks for the offer. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 16:22:02 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335ABB3.5939@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 5:16 pm Message-ID: <199703232222.5606@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Yep. I've gone through many of these at work (in the 70s) and they > always fail the same board. It has lots of analog circuitry on it and I > suspect it is that part of it. I wonder if it's something as simple as the read PLL failing to lock. That should be easy to fix. I have a spare of one of the boards (a mad friend gave it to me along with some UPP personality boards), but I have no idea if it works, and anyway, I think it's the digital board with the 3000 stuff on it. BTW, I am working from memory here, and I've not looked at the schematics for a couple of months, so don't be suprised if I start talking nonsense... > The fault is very non-specific. When trying to boot it just returns a > disk read failure. At that point the rom monitor is the only thing in > charge and it is small. I thing it just says "error". I may try it Sure. I wondered if you'd tried doing any fault-tracing yet. > again so I can be more specific. When we used them at work they were on > a service contract, so I never had to mess with them. Just isolate > which board was bad. Fortunately, I've never had to battle with service contracts. Board-swapping never seemed satisfactory to me - until you've found the fault you can never be sure that you've swapped the right board. And if you've found the fault you might as well solder in a new component. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 21:10:52 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: <199703232213.5529@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3335F0BC.6A5@mich.com> A.R. Duell wrote: > > > I have the ICE-80 as well, and used it many times (in the way past!). > > Intel was the first company to have in-circuit emulators (I believe) and > > I'd _love_ an ICE-3000 (or whatever it's called) - the one for the > 3000-series bit-slice chips. Never knew there was one of those. > Do you happen to have any manuals on the ICE-80? I got all the other > manuals for my system, but those, and the ICE-80 probe were missing. The > probe turned up in a clearout 2 years later (!), but the manuals were > never found. I'll check. Might just have them. > > > UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. > > > > Now the UPP is a unique device. It has personality boards for many > > Indeed. I think I have the 2708, 2716 and 8748 (!) personality boards. I > have the 2 24 pin sockets on the front (alas - the 16 and 24 pin pair > would probably have been more useful). > > The personality boards contain the 4001 ROMs containing the programming > code for the particular EPROM. > > > different type of memories. There aren't too many eprom programmers out > > than can do 1702s, but it is one. > > I don't have the 1702 personality board, but then my MCS8i can do 1702's, > so it's no real problem... That was another one of those boards prone to failure. Too much analog stuff I suppose. Tough to keep it in cal. > > > Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used > > > a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K > > > cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. > > > > I think the MCS8i was originally the Intellec 8. It was 8008 based, but > > Indeed it was. It says Intellec 8 on the front, but I seem to recall that > MCS8i is written on it somewhere. I think mine was built as an 8080 system > (The date codes on the CPU board are not much later than those on all the > other boards, for example), rather than being upgraded. > > > there was an upgrade that made it an 8080 cpu. As old as I am, that one > > predates my experience. The Intellec 800 was my first development > > system. > > I bought my MCS8i at a radio rally (hamfest). It was a choice between that > and an Altair. I personally think I bought the more interesting machine... Indeed you did! Altairs are everywhere! You have the machine that likely the Altair was designed with!!! -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 23 18:57:28 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please References: Message-ID: <3335D178.7333@goldrush.com> Doug Spence wrote: [snip] > Hey! I currently have a similar problem. I brought a Kaypro II home > recently (last week? I've forgotten already) and although it had a boot > disk in the drive, it wasn't an OS disk, and I can't format disks or > other boot disks. And the disk that was in the drive (a pirate copy of > WordStar) is flaky. The Kaypro is a pretty nice computer we have a Kaypro-10 at work (locked away in storage till who knows when). Good video bios, no hi-res like the Televideo but the terminal emulation was ok, (ADM 3A compatible, I think). Can run Worstar on it as well as dBase II also a handfull of simple video games and a drawing program (SCS draw). I might have the disks under my desk at work... ;-) [snip] > > Heh. This also sounds familiar. I have a CBM 2040 drive, sans fuse and > cap. I know at least one of the drive units works, as I got a directory > from a 1541 disk on my PET while holding a screwdriver in the fuse > socket. Don't do this at home. :) I would get a panel mount fuse-holder from Radio Shack and replace it (that is if the fuse-holder caps are incompatible), fortunately many of the PET/CBM fuses are not PCboard mounted. Larry Anderson From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 23 21:15:25 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing References: <3.0.32.19970322104458.00a3fa70@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3335F1CD.1910@goldrush.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are > *much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned > this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the > most what one owns or has owned. > I see a good deal of the CoCos at a somewhat near-by flea market, almost as many as 64s, (not saying that they made as many CoCos as Commodore did with 64s, it just seems they both are being sold in abundance nowadays....) After CoCos and 64s, next would be TI 99/4 whatevers, then Atari 800/400 series. I was surprised to see an Aquarius WITH expansion module and controllers for sale a month or so ago. Larry Anderson From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Mar 24 00:48:03 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: FS: Tandy Model 100 w/manuals, case, cables Message-ID: <333623A3.26BD@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, I have decided to sell my Tandy Model 100. It comes complete with both the owner's manual and service manual, a soft vinyl case, modem/phone cable and cassette cable. Works great! Since I didn't know what to ask, I went ahead and listed it on AuctionWeb. Here's the link to bid and get more info, see picture, etc: http://www.ebay.com/aw-cgi/item.cgi?item=lvp42398 Thanks and any questions, please feel free to ask. Greg -- http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 24 04:21:30 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335F0BC.6A5@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 10:10 pm Message-ID: <199703241021.15589@tw400.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > A.R. Duell wrote: [...] > > I'd _love_ an ICE-3000 (or whatever it's called) - the one for the > > 3000-series bit-slice chips. > > Never knew there was one of those. It's mentioned in the back of one of the Intel databooks I have. I think it was an ICE for the sequencer chip (I've forgotten which one that was), but, of course, since the microcode would most likely be in ROM, emulating the sequencer would be enough to trace the microcode, and hence get a good idea of what was going on. [...] > > I don't have the 1702 personality board, but then my MCS8i can do 1702's, > > so it's no real problem... > > That was another one of those boards prone to failure. Too much analog > stuff I suppose. Tough to keep it in cal. Provided it's not the 4001's that fail, then there's no real problem. The analogue bits are at least fixable. Of course programming a 1702 was non-trivial - you had to drive a number of pins to crazy voltages... > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From classicjr at juno.com Mon Mar 24 09:21:21 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: To Digest Commands? References: <199703241021.15589@tw400.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <19970324.075753.10055.2.classicjr@juno.com> Thanks for offering the disccussion group in digest form. The many messages each day were often too much to "digest" :-) What commands do I need to send and where do I need to send them to set my subscription to a digest? From classicjr at juno.com Mon Mar 24 09:55:36 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computers I have known References: <199703241021.15589@tw400.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <19970324.075753.10055.3.classicjr@juno.com> Well Here goes my list of computers I have owned over the years since 1983. I may miss some, but here goes. Owned and resold: Timex/Sinclair ZX-81 and 2068, with Printer Atari 400, 800, 800XL, Various Drives and Access. NEC APC with 2 -8" Drives Epson QX-10, QX 16 Cromemco C-10 Burroughs B?? Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 16 Eagle IIE Televideo Radio Shack Model 3, 4 Coloco Adam XT Clone with 20 Meg. H. Drive Still own: Epson HX-20 (non working battery) Epson Geneva Px-8 Tandy Model 102, and WP-1 (Word Processor) Casio PB-700 (Pocket computer with Printer/Cassette Adaptor) Kaypro 2X, 4 Tandy CoCo computers, 2, 3, Originals, Various Drives and Access. Tandy 1000 TL-3 Tandy 1000 SL AT&T 6300 Otrona Attache (2 Nonworking) Dynologic Hyperion (Portable MS-DOS machine) Intertec Superbrain QD, (2) AST Adventure DX2-50 ACER Acros 486DX-33 586-133 Clone machine The Best and Worst? Best Keyboards, The Tandy 1000SL, TL-3. Worst Keyboard - Timex Sinclait ZX-81 and COCO's Best Support - Kaypro's Worst Support and Software availability - NEC APC Wierdest Operating system - Burroughs Wierdest hardware - Cromemco C-10 (a Monitor Box with Moterboard and ports, separate drive boxes, and separate keyboard.) Neatest Hardware design - Televideo (Modern Monitor Style with vertical Floppies, one on top of another. From BigLouS at aol.com Mon Mar 24 09:02:25 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Adam for Sale Message-ID: <970324100223_512104928@emout13.mail.aol.com> Someone on AOL has an Adam for sale. Is anyone interested? Lou From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 24 09:16:47 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970322104458.00a3fa70@mail.northernway.net> from "Roger Merchberger" at Mar 22, 97 11:06:26 am Message-ID: <199703241516.KAA32051@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Roger Merchberger once stated: > > At 05:54 PM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > > Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually > > have to hunt around, but persistence pays off. > > Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not > > fall into this catagory (IMHO). > > > > Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be > > here (again IMHO). > > Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are > *much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned > this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the > most what one owns or has owned. I own two Color Computers myself, and I've rarely see them around. The last few ham fests only a few showed up (the last one I did see two Apple Lisa's though). It might also have something to do with geographical region. PCs are very plentiful where I live, even the stuff from IBM. Why? Because IBM developed the PC in Boca Raton, FL [1]. > My point is there was an immense production of the Color Computer (there > must... I own 3 myself) and in my little town of 14,000, I can name people > who still own and use them, but the last Amiga I saw in this town was > almost 10 years ago. Mind you, I'm not saying they're not around... I'm > saying I don't see/take note of them, because I prefer Color Computers... I've only met one other person that owned a Color Computer. But I've met plenty that have owned and used Amigas. I don't know anyone that hasn't owned a PC at one time or other. I know a few people that own Macs, but they also tend to own PCs as well. Again, it might be a geographical thing. > I can give you one bit of information: The Tandy Color Computer line was in > production longer than any other 8-bit (and some 16-bit) home computer. But then why do I keep seeing Apple ][s for sale everywhere? Might it be that people keep good computers? 8-) -spc (Always liked the 6809 over the 6502 anyway ... ) [1] IBM Main Site (which IBM pulled out of last year) is about 25 minutes (with average traffic) from my house, and about 5 from my office. The college I attened is across the street from IBM. Go figure. From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 24 09:30:04 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703231615.22692@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> from "A.R. Duell" at Mar 23, 97 04:15:04 pm Message-ID: <199703241530.KAA32087@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great A.R. Duell once stated: > > > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > > > > > Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very > > > many. > > > > How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? > > Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard > > Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. > > What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger? > Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. Sound limited to me 8-) > > I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing > > life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro- > > based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks, > > Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros > (particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch > quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer > equipment. At the auction I attended recently, Two large (and I mean physically large) VAX systems were sold for $50 (for the two of them). If #431 [1] wasn't bidding, it might have been fun to get them. But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it weighs that much, but it was huge) home? Where do I get three phase 220 power? Even though my office is the Cold Room [2] where I work, we don't have the room or the power to run those things. Shame really. > The PERQ (sorry to keep on mentioning what I consider to be one of the > finest machines ever made) has a minicomputer-like CPU (260+ chips, 74S181 > ALUs, 2910 sequencer, etc) that you can get amongst together with a hi-res > bitmapped display. Now that's a machine I wouldn't mind owning. -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) [1] Who bidded (and often outbid) on just about every lot in the auction, and seemed not to care what he got or even interested in what we has bidding for. Grrrrrrrr. [2] In name only. It's the largest office actually, with two A/C vents, and were all our companies servers are. I'm not the sysadmin (at least, I don't want to be) though my partners haven't realized that yet [3]. [3] Oh, this ISN'T alt.sysadmin.recovery? Sorry. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Mar 24 09:50:29 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703241530.KAA32087@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > At the auction I attended recently, Two large (and I mean physically > large) VAX systems were sold for $50 (for the two of them). If #431 [1] > wasn't bidding, it might have been fun to get them. Don't ya just severely dislike (PC tm. scan: "hate" rejected) people like that? I see those type around here as well. > But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it > weighs that much, but it was huge) home? A flat-bed utility trailer and a heavy chain come-along does wonders. BTW: I think the 'book' weight on the 11/780 in my collection is 1150 lbs. > Where do I get three phase 220 power? Don't need it. All of the DEC gear I've ever seen seems to use the three phase setup as much for convienence as anything. Once you get past the power controller (relay box), all of the actual power supplies are 117VAC single phase. (and have 'normal' three prong plugs going into the power controller) If you like the power controllers, takes about one hour to rework it for 220VAC single phase, or just skip it altogether. (tho, then you have to go through the power sequencing manually B^} ) > -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) Like??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 24 10:01:13 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Mar 24, 97 07:50:29 am Message-ID: <199703241601.LAA32166@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great James Willing once stated: > > > But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it > > weighs that much, but it was huge) home? > > A flat-bed utility trailer and a heavy chain come-along does wonders. > BTW: I think the 'book' weight on the 11/780 in my collection is 1150 lbs. I'm sure the neighbors would live that 8-) Did I mention I live in a condo? Fortunately, it's on the first floor, but still ... > > Where do I get three phase 220 power? > > Don't need it. All of the DEC gear I've ever seen seems to use the three > phase setup as much for convienence as anything. Once you get past the > power controller (relay box), all of the actual power supplies are 117VAC > single phase. (and have 'normal' three prong plugs going into the power > controller) > > If you like the power controllers, takes about one hour to rework it for > 220VAC single phase, or just skip it altogether. (tho, then you have to go > through the power sequencing manually B^} ) Oh. I'm a software guy. While I could probably do it, I'd be nervous about it. And while Florida Flicker and Flash would love for me to power those things, I'm not sure my wallet would. > > -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) > > Like??? Anything? The serial connection isn't like anything I've seen. Looks like a telephone jack, but six wires instead of four, and the latch thing seems off center. I'd like to use it, as it seems to work great. But I can't hook it up to anything. -spc (Sigh. So many computers, so little time ... ) From MPritchard at ensemble.net Mon Mar 24 10:10:07 1997 From: MPritchard at ensemble.net (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <199703241608.IAA00773@mx3.u.washington.edu> >What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger? >Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. Don't forget the Atari 1400, 1450xld, etc, which exists as prototypes only. Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros (particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer equipment. It's a memory/nostalgia thing. When I was a young boy, I got access to a bunch of early micros (Ohio Scientific, Exidy Sorcerer, Kim -1, etc). Now I'm older and want own things from my youth. ;-) -Matt Pritchard From kevan at motiv.co.uk Mon Mar 24 10:28:44 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Collectors web pages... Message-ID: <199703241628.QAA12764@cream.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Simply, I am looking for URL's of collectors who document their collection on the Web. For some time I have had page on my Web site that lists other classic computer collectors who have web pages that document their collection. I am now in the process of revamping my collection web site and I would like to improve the list of the collectors web pages I have. The URL for this new page is: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/collection/other_collectors.html If you have a web page that documents your collection and I haven't already got it then please drop me a note and I will add it to the list. Regards -- Kevan Heydon Old Computer Collector: From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 24 11:04:38 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703241530.KAA32087@armigeron.com>; from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 24, 97 10:30 am Message-ID: <199703241704.17812@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> [Vaxen] > But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it > weighs that much, but it was huge) home? Where do I get three phase 220 Err... In bits??? Seriously, a lot of larger machines split up into liftable modules quite easily. I'd never think of moving one in one piece, but half an hour with a screwdriver can make the job a lot easier. A few points if you do this : Label anything that's not obvious - cable connections, PSU terminals, board positions, etc. I normally number the card cages in some order, and stick labels on them carrying that number. I then number the slots in each cage, if possible, following the manufacturers convention but if not, I mark slot 1 in each cage. I then label the boards with things like 5/23 or 1/27 (meaning slot 23 in cage 5, etc) Boards are suprisingly heavy, and it's often worth emptying the cardcage. The empty cardcages are often quite light. Oh, make sure the person giving you the machine is expecting you to dismantle it. They often do - I've been offered the use of toolkits, etc (although I always bring my own tools if possible). Once they got rather annoyed with me for pulling covers, etc (they just wanted me to pick up the machine and leave), but I wasn't going to move a Shugart SA4000 winchester without fitting the headclamps no matter what they thought ;-) > power? Even though my office is the Cold Room [2] where I work, we don't > have the room or the power to run those things. The power isn't that much of a problem. With the exception of large disk drives (which may have 3 phase motors), almost all this stuff _can_ be kludged to run off a single-phase line. [PERQs] > Now that's a machine I wouldn't mind owning. They're not _that_ hard to find, although they may be more common in the UK than the States (A lot were sold by ICL to UK Universities). Keep on looking, and one will turn up. > > -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) What about them? They eat flyback transformers.... -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From jeffh at eleventh.com Wed Mar 19 09:54:54 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 24-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > After CoCos and 64s, next would be TI 99/4 whatevers, then Atari >800/400 series. I was surprised to see an Aquarius WITH expansion >module and controllers for sale a month or so ago. Larry, That certainly is interesting...I would have liked to have seen that one. I picked up a second Aquarius the other day, this one from Mattel, while my first doesn't bear the Mattel name anywhere on it, and seems to have been sold directly by Radofin Electronics. Other than the Mattel name missing from the case and ID label though, and the fact that the Radofin machine has an 'R' tacked to the end of the model number, they are identical. The third variant I've heard of, but not seen, is the PAL version sold in the UK. I don't recall it's model number, but it's model was totally different than the 5931 model of the US NTSC version. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Wed Mar 19 10:27:22 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's an idea my father posed this weekend while I was telling him about this list and other such things about these computers. He's an antique clock restorer/dealer in the midwest, and he asked if we had thought of forming a formal association, such as those done for other types of collictibles and antiques. I thought it was an interesting idea, and an electronic newsletter with tips and articles written by people here could be done on say a monthly or bi-monthly basis. Any other thoughts on this from anyone? Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 24 16:38:28 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: To Digest Commands? In-Reply-To: <19970324.075753.10055.2.classicjr@juno.com> Message-ID: > Thanks for offering the disccussion group in digest form. The many > messages each day were often too much to "digest" :-) > > What commands do I need to send and where do I need to send them to set > my subscription to a digest? Read the highlighted section below: ClassicCmp Regular Posting Mailing Lists and How to Talk to the List Robot This message is posted with frequency proportional to subscription rate (or monthly). Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. How to Talk to the Robot > There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to > use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message > to listproc@u.washington.edu. In the body of the message (not > the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands. > Then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. > SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST > Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages > rather than each as it is posted. With this option > you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep > a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. That's the basics. If you need to know more just drop me a line at bcw@u.washington.edu. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 24 18:51:03 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Encyclopedia Message-ID: Hi folks. The computer encyclopedia seems to have survived the weekend and is ready for new entries. So far six machines have been cataloged. Here's your chance to show off what you know about your obscure machines (and help justify all the work that went into this thing). Go to the CCL site (http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html) and click on the Classic Computer Encyclopedia. Then just go to Add a computer. Or just browse around and see what you think. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From william at ans.net Mon Mar 24 21:21:11 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> Message-ID: <199703250321.AA04019@interlock.ans.net> I am a little confused here... I assume that the availability field of this listing would be for collectors today, not original users years back. The two interpretations have profound differences. For example, IBM 360 and 370 mainframes were made in quite large quantities, but very few exist today. One could list them as Uncommon or Rare (probably very rare!). Likewise, NeXT cubes were never made in huge numbers, but getting one is not very hard. Also, I think the Limited field really is more like "Very Rare". There is a difference between those machines really made to a limited quantity (a known production run), and those that tried to make it big, like failed prototypes. Perhaps the "Limited" flag should be listed in the machine description, like a note. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 25 00:45:40 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Laser computers from VTL In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970321092856.0082d270@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > The "mixed" colors are created thru a phenomenon called "color > artifacting." This happens when you try to display thin (vertical usually) > white lines on a color TV. The TV cannot show lines that thin on the > phosphor grid, so you end up activating only the (usually) blue or red pixels. This is actually similar to the way the Apple ][ does its colour in high resolution modes. I don't remember the exact way it worked, but there were seven visible pixels per byte, and one hidden bit. When that hidden bit was on, pixels in that display byte were orange or blue, and when it was off they were green or purple. A pixel turned on alone had its colour decided by whether it was in an even or odd position, horizontally, and by that hidden bit. If two pixels were turned on side-by-side, the result was a fat white pixel. Of course, if you made the mistake of attempting to plot an orange pixel in a byte with green and purple pixels, the pixels would change colour. And if you POKEd the same value into two bytes that were beside each other, the colours would reverse (green would become purple in the second byte, orange would become blue...). This is how it works on the Laser 3000, too, in HGR and HGR2 modes. But go up to HGR5 and HGR6 modes, and it doesn't work like the Apple anymore. In HGR5 and HGR6 modes, you can plot any colour to any pixel, without affecting the other pixels in that byte. And the basic colours are different: HCOLOR= Apple ][ Laser 3000 0 black1 black 1 green green 2 magenta magenta 3 white1 cyan 4 black2 yellow 5 orange red 6 blue blue 7 white2 white On the Laser 3000, you can do something like this: 10 HGR5 20 FOR X=1 TO 280 STEP 2 30 HCOLOR=X/35 40 HPLOT X,0 TO X,191 50 NEXT X 60 FOR Y=1 TO 7 70 FOR X=0 TO 279 STEP 2 80 HCOLOR=Y 90 HPLOT X,Y*24 TO X,Y*24+23 100 NEXT X,Y On a composite monitor, this gives 64 visually distinct colours. I presume an RGB monitor would show what's really going on, but some of the colours that come out of the "mixing" are really strange, when the two "source" colours are taken into account. I don't really know what the Laser 3000 is doing internally with this... It only seems to use 2 bitplanes for 8 colours (compared to the Apple's use of one bitplane for 6 colours). If I knew how to plug an RGB monitor into this thing (it does have an RGB port, but I don't know the pinouts) I'd be able to see better what it's doing. BTW, in case anyone's interested: In memory, HGR5 occupies $4000-$5FFF and $6000-$7FFF HGR6 occupies $8000-$9FFF and $A000-$BFFF I still don't know where in memory HGR3 and HGR4 are (double hi-res modes with the standard Apple colours). I can't seem to address them directly with POKE. Must be hiding up there in those other memory pages. > The Color Computer 1 / 2 had the same "problem" and many programs for this > took advantage of this to show color for the highest-resolution which was > monochrome. I think it's the phase of the video sync that changes with > respect to the TV that makes the colors swap... Many of the CoCo programs > that used this technique actually remapped the reset key so it would > re-enter the program, and showed a test screen with 2 boxes and "this > should be blue" under one and "this should be red" under the other. You > just kept resetting the computer (without having to re-load the pgm every > time) until the colors synced correctly. Helpful for RPG's that said "you > need the blue key..." At least the Apple was consistent with the colours, so I guess it's not just artifacting called a 'feature' (it really is a feature). That's cool, BTW. I think I'll drag my Laser 3000 out as soon as I have time and see if its reset can swap the colour sets. If so, I can use the same trick the Color Computer used for my own software. > Of course, when we "geeks" upgraded to the RGB monitor on the CoCo 3, we > lost all color artifacting... and the games became almost totally > unplayable. (No! You need the *other* white-striped key!) ;-) Yup, I remember this on the Apple, using the monochrome monitor. :) > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, > Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. > zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* > | until I find some new wisdom to share. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 25 01:25:33 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: The return of the 'Mark-8' Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970324232533.00ed6ec8@agora.rdrop.com> (Attempting not to drop into 'blatant advertising' mode... B^} ) In preparation for an exhibit of 'Classic Computers' that I am working on with other local collectors and the Oregon Museum of Science and History (OMSI - http://www.omsi.edu) to be presented this November, we are planning to reconstruct (at least one) functioning 'Mark-8' microcomputer as originally presented in a construction article in the July 1974 edition of 'Radio-Electronics' magazine. (predating the presentation of the 'Altair' construction project in a competing magazine by six months) Briefly for those not familiar with the unit, the 'Mark-8' (referred to as a "minicomputer" in the original article) is an Intel 8008 microprocessor based unit with a clock speed of 500kHz and a maximum addresing range of 16kb. The unit as implemented in this project features a full 'programmers' front panel, and is constructed on six double sided circuit boards which comprise the CPU board, parallel data input and output boards, display board, address latch and memory boards. The reconstruction as I will be implementing it will add a seventh board to stand in for the original memory board which was designed for 1101 static RAM chips which are no longer available in any quantity. The revised memory board will substitute 2102 static RAM chips which are readily available. (Note: there is a possibility that we may just update the existing memory board layout to allow the use of either RAM chip, but we are not quite that far along as yet) To help defer the costs of having the circuit boards made, we are offering sets of the boards to interested parties at our cost. Currently, with the minimum run of boards to make this project practical (6 sets) the cost per set stands at $200.00US. Four sets are currently spoken for. To get this rolling, we at least to find people interested in the other two board sets, and if more people are interested we can get the price per set down even further. (or if someone out there works for a PC board house???) And, since someone will no doubt ask... Yes, we do have a source for the Intel 8008 microprocessors. The quantities are limited however, and the current price for the microprocessor is $200.00US. All other required parts to construct this unit are readily available through stardard sources. Also, through the kindness of the management of Gernsback Publications (publisher of 'Radio-Electronics' and other related publications) we can provide reprints of the original construction article and documentation set for the 'Mark-8' project to anyone who purchases one of the board sets. (with updates for the revised memory board) If anyone is interested in joining us on this classic adventure or has any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thanks! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kevan at motiv.co.uk Tue Mar 25 03:27:19 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199703250927.JAA26582@cream.motiv.co.uk> In message you write: > > The third variant > I've heard of, but not seen, is the PAL version sold in the UK. I don't > recall it's model number, but it's model was totally different than the 5931 > model of the US NTSC version. > The UK PAL versions model number is: 4110 you can a picture of one here: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-mattel.html -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 20 05:31:53 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:56 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >The UK PAL versions model number is: 4110 you can a picture of one here: > http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-mattel.html >Kevan Yes, your machine was the one I was referring to! I found the Mattel version for $1 the other day after we were talking about the differences in the model's. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Mar 26 00:57:42 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970321144630.0089c4a0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Check out this URL: > > http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~axc/MACHINE-ROOM/welcome.html > > the Database isn't overly huge, and doesn't have database, or auto-add, or > any of that jazz, but it's got a beautiful layout and some really strange > machines in it (including a pic & listing for the Video Technology Laser > 200... Cool! Thanks, I'll check that out. I was browsing around last night and I found a picture of the Laser 200. That was at http://194.22.63.201/homepages/gerard.laures/Laser200.htm, and I must say it's a cute looking little machine. I'll check out the page you mentioned and see if there are any stats. I'm becoming more interested in Video Technology Ltd. It seems they made a lot of computers I've never heard of. I feel kind of lucky to have found something of theirs, in a strange kind of way. :) Not that it's like finding a Mark-8 or anything. > -- > Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, > Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. > zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* > | until I find some new wisdom to share. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From classicjr at juno.com Wed Mar 26 10:32:56 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Laser PC-3, 4 References: <199703260802.AAA02286@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <19970326.083319.7399.0.classicjr@juno.com> Anyone on the list ever heard of the Laser PC-3 and PC-4 Laptop computers? They were small NonDos, NonWindows computers to be used mainly as Organizers and Word Processors. They were out about 7 years ago and sold at Sears stores, etc. I sure would like to get one of those machines... Especially the PC-4, with the bigger screen. They came with a choice of Ms-Dos or Mac connection cables and Software. Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ?? From johnz at utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Wed Mar 26 11:38:58 1997 From: johnz at utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (John Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Laser PC-3, 4 Message-ID: >Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ?? I saw one at a workshop 2 years age. At that time they were selling for $239.00, with a number of add on options. They are or were available from Perfect Solutions 12657 Coral Breeze Dr. West Palm Beach, FL 33414 1-800-726-7086 (407) 790-1070 John Moore From spc at armigeron.com Wed Mar 26 12:06:16 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Laser PC-3, 4 In-Reply-To: from "John Moore" at Mar 26, 97 11:38:58 am Message-ID: <199703261806.NAA05551@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great John Moore once stated: > > >Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ?? > > I saw one at a workshop 2 years age. At that time they were selling for > $239.00, with a number of add on options. > They are or were available from Perfect Solutions > 12657 Coral Breeze Dr. > West Palm Beach, FL 33414 > 1-800-726-7086 > (407) 790-1070 Actually, the area code for West Palm Beach has changed from 407 to 561. Just so you know. -spc (Still not used to a county having it's own area code) From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 26 16:27:30 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Epic Computer Message-ID: <33397dc9.3334277@smtp.ix.netcom.com> Greetings; I've found/uncovered another computer in my garage, does anyone know anything about it? The label says Epic Computer Products, Inc. Fountain Valley, Calif. Model 2296 It measures about 9" wide, 7" high, and 14" deep (breadbox size) Most of the space is taken by 2 FH 5?" drives (Qume model 592) one drive has a disk in it which is labeled 77 tracks/side, so I assume they are 640K or 720K. The processor is a Z80A with 64KB, so my best guess is that it's a CP/M system. The back panel contains a RESET button, a TEST/NORMAL switch, a DB-25F connector with a switch labeled toCOMM EQUIP/toPRINTER, a Centronics connector labeled PARALLEL, and a couple of other "phone jack" type connectors. (I don't know the name for these connectors, but they're the same size as the one on my phone-handset connection, not the plug-in-the-wall size) One of these connectors is labeled CONSOLE, the other is labeled PRINTER SERIAL. I would like to get this thing running, but don't know how to do it, what to use, or where to connect it. Any help/info would be appreciated. _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From kevan at motiv.co.uk Thu Mar 27 09:34:40 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Insurance of your collection... Message-ID: <199703271534.PAA10662@cream.motiv.co.uk> Ok, what do people do about insurance of their computer collections. I guess mine is covered on the plain old house contents insurance, but the more I think about it the more I worry about a potential claim for over 60 old (and I guess in the minds of insurers, obsolete) computers. I guess insurers will want a current market value, but what is current market value for old computers? As far as I am concerned there isn't a market value and each computer is only worth as much as the person selling it wants for it, or what the purchaser is willing to pay. I have recorded the prices I have payed for most of the things I have in my collection, but some of the rarest and most valuable to me I got given for free. Other items I have payed a lot of money for, probably too much sometimes when I realy want the item. In no case have I got a reciept for a purchase. Thoughts please. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: From alexios at vennea.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 26 18:52:53 1997 From: alexios at vennea.demon.co.uk (Alexios Chouchoulas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Check out this URL: > > > > http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~axc/MACHINE-ROOM/welcome.html > > > > the Database isn't overly huge, and doesn't have database, or auto-add, or > > any of that jazz, but it's got a beautiful layout and some really strange > > machines in it (including a pic & listing for the Video Technology Laser > > 200... > > Cool! Thanks, I'll check that out. Greetings, Roger! Wow, the Machine Room just got a mention! I'm honoured (substitute honored, depending on location). :-) The Laser 200 pic is really horrible, it's from a Greek (!) mag circa 1984, all in black and white and very small. I know I've seen a colour ad for the critter, but I can't locate it. Btw, since it's URL time, may I suggest the /new/ URL for the Machine Room: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/ It's even nicer to nice browsers (i.e. Lynx) and contains more machines (68 right now). > I'm becoming more interested in Video Technology Ltd. It seems they made > a lot of computers I've never heard of. And they were all sort-of-compatible to something else! Strangely enough, they changed their choice of cloned machine every model and they weren't particularly good at it, either. :-) Have fun! Alexios --------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. ------------------------------- Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88' alexios@vennea.demon.co.uk The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc@dcs.ed.ac.uk From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 28 00:25:33 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal Message-ID: <199703280730.BAA21402@ds9.comland.com> I have a C Itoh Video Terminal model number CT101. If anyone can use it, and doesn't mind paying shipping, I would be happy to send it to them. It is in good working condition, there are some crayon marks on the side, but I'm sure they will come off. I put it into my kids room and let them hit the keys and watch the characters come up on the screen. They thought it was the neatest thing. It is nothing more than a dumb terminal, but I know some of you have mini computers and might be able to use it as a console or something like that. Just email me and let me know, or if you need more information. I live in Austin, TX. and would bring it to work if you are local and don't mind picking it up. It's nothing really special, but I hate to throw out something that someone might be able to use. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From classicjr at juno.com Fri Mar 28 09:22:39 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? References: <199703280802.AAA05813@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <19970328.074212.5287.1.classicjr@juno.com> I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An "Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going. I have on old catalog from the "JMM Computer Products" from Auburn Washington which details many accessories and cables that they sold for the Osbornes. I may be interested in getting a Parallel Cable, maybe an internal Ram Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software. Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a Hard Disk upgrade?? BTW, I have color brochures of all three of the Osborne machines, the O1, Exec. and the Vixen that I have stashed away since the 80's. They are fun to look at once and a while. From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 28 14:48:54 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal In-Reply-To: <199703280730.BAA21402@ds9.comland.com> from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 28, 97 01:25:33 am Message-ID: <199703282048.MAA21453@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 793 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970328/70c1e154/attachment.ksh From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 28 15:40:43 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970328214043.008ed3ac@mail.comland.com > At 12:48 PM 3/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi! > >If you still have this, I would definitely have a use for it... I have about >7 Unix machines that I could use an extra dumb terminal on... > Jay Vaughan Jay, It's yours. I will try and box it up this weekend and ship it out early next week, it's not extremely heavy, but it's close. I will even see if I can get the crayon off of it. There's not much, just a little scribble, but everything works just fine on it. I don't have any cables to hook it up, just the keyboard and the monitor, but it looks like it has standard rs232 and parallel ports on the back. I knew someone could use it, and sure hated to throw it away. I have never really shipped anything(man i'm naieve), so if you want anything special fed-ex wise, email me and let me know what to do. Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance. idavis@comland.com : Feeling the flow. indavis@juno.com : Working it. Working it. From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 28 21:20:20 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970328214043.008ed3ac@mail.comland.com > from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 28, 97 03:40:43 pm Message-ID: <199703290320.TAA22827@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1075 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970328/0b462f6d/attachment.ksh From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 28 21:21:15 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970328214043.008ed3ac@mail.comland.com > from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 28, 97 03:40:43 pm Message-ID: <199703290321.TAA22837@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970328/97e78cef/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Mar 28 22:38:23 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? In-Reply-To: <19970328.074212.5287.1.classicjr@juno.com> References: <199703280802.AAA05813@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970328203823.00ed03e0@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:22 AM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote: >I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An >"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going. Congratulations. They are neat beasts. >I may be interested in getting a Parallel Cable, maybe an internal Ram >Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software. > >Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a >Hard Disk upgrade?? Interesting you mention the "Drive C" unit, I have on e in my collection but no software or docs. Anyone have any info on this critter? >BTW, I have color brochures of all three of the Osborne machines, the O1, >Exec. and the Vixen that I have stashed away since the 80's. They are fun >to look at once and a while. You should scan those in for the masses to view. B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jim at october.u-net.com Sat Mar 29 00:37:48 1997 From: jim at october.u-net.com (James Campbell Andrew) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Insurance of your collection... In-Reply-To: <199703271534.PAA10662@cream.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <199703290637489276@october.u-net.com> > Ok, what do people do about insurance of their computer collections. I > guess mine is covered on the plain old house contents insurance, but > the more I think about it the more I worry about a potential claim for > over 60 old (and I guess in the minds of insurers, obsolete) computers. > > I guess insurers will want a current market value, but what is current > market value for old computers? As far as I am concerned there isn't > a market value and each computer is only worth as much as the person > selling it wants for it, or what the purchaser is willing to pay. Correct. Although some systems (Vectrex spring to mind) are starting to increase in price. In MicroMart you often see them advertised for 300UKP or so. Whether they actually *sell* for that is anyones guess! I averaged out the value of my old systems at roughly 50 UKP each so the total came to about 2,000UKP. I just bumped my insurance up by that amount. Many household insurances actually come with a 'collections' clause so it's best to have a gander at it and see if you are already covered. -- | The application "Jim" has suffered http://www.october.u-net.com | a Total Enthusiasm Failure Collector of 8bit computers | and must exit immediately. WANTED:TRS-80 Model 2 (UK) | [[ OK ]] [ CANCEL ] From jeffh at eleventh.com Sat Mar 29 09:32:03 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Enterprise Computers Message-ID: This is for all of our European members. I'm interested in the Enterprise line of computers, either the 64 or the 128. How common are these machines in Europe? Would it be hard to find one? Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 30 05:35:50 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Kaypro, TeleVideo, PET In-Reply-To: <3335D178.7333@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > The Kaypro is a pretty nice computer we have a Kaypro-10 at work > (locked away in storage till who knows when). Good video bios, no > hi-res like the Televideo but the terminal emulation was ok, (ADM 3A > compatible, I think). Can run Worstar on it as well as dBase II also a > handfull of simple video games and a drawing program (SCS draw). I > might have the disks under my desk at work... ;-) I think the power supply on my Kaypro II is anemic or something. The display shudders when the drives are accessed, and scrolling in WordStar causes the characters to not be fully drawn during the scrolling. Kind of like a "black static" blotting out the green. That latter problem might be normal, but the compressing screen on drive access thing looks a little worrying. How do I get the terminal emulation running? Do I need the boot disk for this, or is there some mode I can turn this thing on into, to get it to act as a terminal? I'd like the same kind of info on the TeleVideo, BTW. Mine is a TPC-1, the cool luggable one. I've got a copy of MDM803 that works on it, that was on the disks I got from the former owner. I also started writing my own terminal software for it (VERY basic, where I left it) and I still hadn't figured out the serial port hardware. I had to run my program, quit immediately, then run again or the system would hang. Basically, I need manuals for the TeleVideo quite badly. I'd especially like to know how to access the graphics... I have the TPCIDEMO program and a couple of other graphics demos, and the graphics are really impressive for that class of machine! Oh, BTW, I opened the Kaypro up, and it looks like there has been a modification made to it. The chip at U87 (markings were DM74LS390N) had a couple of wires soldered to it. Pin 1 was pulled out out of the socket, and a wire was soldered onto it connecting it to pin 6. Pin 9 was removed entirely. Pins 12 and 15 were also connected with a wire. Does anyone have any idea what this is? Is it a modification of some kind, or was it a correction made at the factory? > > Heh. This also sounds familiar. I have a CBM 2040 drive, sans fuse and > > cap. I know at least one of the drive units works, as I got a directory > > from a 1541 disk on my PET while holding a screwdriver in the fuse > > socket. Don't do this at home. :) > > I would get a panel mount fuse-holder from Radio Shack and replace it > (that is if the fuse-holder caps are incompatible), fortunately many of > the PET/CBM fuses are not PCboard mounted. I'll have to do SOMETHING. I mean, I grew up using the PET with cassettes, but I'm not quite so patient now, and I'd kind of like to do some stuff with the this machine. Mind you, I'd like to also get more memory for it somehow. I'm still running on 8K. Does anyone know if I can get some other chips to plonk in the sockets to give me more memory? > Larry Anderson Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 30 05:50:21 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Computers I have known In-Reply-To: <19970324.075753.10055.3.classicjr@juno.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Jeffrey G. Rottman wrote: > Eagle IIE Is this the same Eagle that now makes Amiga tower boxes? (BTW, it looks like Amiga is being bought by Gateway 2000.) > Dynologic Hyperion (Portable MS-DOS machine) Hey! I saw one of these only a few weeks ago. I'm kind of sorry I didn't pick it up. I think these were made locally (to me), in Montreal. I of course dismissed it as "just a DOS box", which generally don't interest me, but it'd be nice to have SOMETHING other than one of my VIC-20s that was made in Canada. > Wierdest hardware - Cromemco C-10 (a Monitor Box with Moterboard and > ports, separate drive boxes, and separate keyboard.) I have the Technical Reference Manual for this one (no, I'm not selling it. :) ). I fear that I had the chance to pick up the machine itself, but I didn't know what the heck I was looking at. At least, I remember there being a rather strange-looking monitor with tons of ports coming out of it at the Salvation Army store I go to, a couple of weeks before I found the manual (at the same store). This was before I realized how rapidly things disappear around there... I think I picked up an Atari 800XL that day instead. The thing was... heavy. And besides there being a lot of ports coming out of it, I wasn't entirely sure it wasn't just a terminal. The keyboard was with it, but no disk drives. Oh well, live and learn. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 30 06:13:50 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: VTL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Alexios Chouchoulas wrote: > > I'm becoming more interested in Video Technology Ltd. It seems they made > > a lot of computers I've never heard of. > > And they were all sort-of-compatible to something else! Strangely enough, > they changed their choice of cloned machine every model and they weren't > particularly good at it, either. :-) Well, if my Laser 3000 is any indication, they weren't too good at making the machine extremely compatible with the one they were cloning, BUT they added tons of cool extra features that the original didn't have! Now if only all of the new features worked, I'd be a lot happier. :) I've really got to get my L3000 plugged in again soon. I had a lot of fun trying to figure that critter out. > Have fun! > Alexios > > --------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. ------------------------------- > Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88' alexios@vennea.demon.co.uk > The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc@dcs.ed.ac.uk Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jeffh at eleventh.com Sun Mar 30 05:07:44 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge Message-ID: At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and one called 'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212). I popped the cartridge into the VIC-20 and the computer still boots right into Basic 2.0. Is this some kind of debugging cartridge then that helps with errors and such? None of the cartridges I picked up came with the docs but the ones I've tried seem to work ok so far. Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color schemes for the labels? The Gorf and Radar Ratrace cartridges I already had both have cream cases with cream/brown/black labels. The new cartridges I got today have brown cases with silver/black labels, though some have off-white cases with silver/black lables, while one has and off-white case with a silver/gold label! All of these are from Commodore. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From ronaldm at mars.ark.com Sun Mar 30 18:22:56 1997 From: ronaldm at mars.ark.com (Ron Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? Message-ID: <199703310022.QAA17084@mars.ark.com> >At 07:22 AM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote: >>I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An >>"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going. > >Congratulations. They are neat beasts. >> internal Ram >>Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software. >> >>Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a >>Hard Disk upgrade?? > >Interesting you mention the "Drive C" unit, I have on e in my collection >but no software or docs. Anyone have any info on this critter? > Yes. Where are you? I have a manual that deals with both the hard drive and the Drive "C" attachment. Also have two drive "C" units. Have never been able to get them to work properly, and the docs don't help much. At any rate, the manual is a rather thick document and unfortunately, it's not mine to lend or sell at this point. Depending on what you want to know, I could photocopy exerpts. -Ron Mitchell From ronaldm at mars.ark.com Sun Mar 30 20:55:08 1997 From: ronaldm at mars.ark.com (Ron Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge Message-ID: <199703310255.SAA22386@mars.ark.com> JEFF>>> At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one JEFF>>> program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and one called JEFF>> 'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212). Jeff, there is a 28 page manual that comes with that cart. Following quote might help get you started: Quote: After the VIC is inserted (the cartridge) type the following: SYS 28681 (and hit the return key) The VIC will display the following message: PROGRAMMER'S AID READY All of the AID commands are now included in your VIC's internal instruction set and may be used like any BASIC commands END QUOTE The cartridge adds 20 apecial editing commands to the VIC's instruction vocabulary and gives you an easy method for re-defining the VIC's programmable function keys. the commands are: AUTO FIND OFF CHANGE HELP PROG DELETE KEY RENUMBER DUMP KILL STEP EDIT MERGE TRACE CTRL A, E, L, N, Q, U also provide additional editing functions. Function keys are assigned various jobs; ie F1 is LIST, F3 is RUN, F5 is GOTO, F7 is INPUT Of course, there is more detail as to useage and some specific examples contained in the manual. Was just trying the thing out... hoping that the HELP command would provide some syntax examples for you. Unfortunately it doesn't. The HELP command will pinpoint a syntax error in your program if you use it directly after receiving an error message. Photocopying this short manual would cost me about $5. If you'll send me the money, I'll do it for you. JEFF>>> Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color schemes JEFF>> >for the labels? I have both. Don't know why it is so. Manufacturer's perrogative? -Ron Mitchell From transit at primenet.com Sun Mar 30 21:57:44 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com > -- > Collector of classic home computers: > > Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore > C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, > Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it? (I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about 4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them on tape, with it. . .) From transit at primenet.com Sun Mar 30 22:08:45 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge In-Reply-To: <199703310255.SAA22386@mars.ark.com> Message-ID: > > JEFF>>> Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color > schemes > JEFF>> >for the labels? > > I have both. Don't know why it is so. Manufacturer's perrogative? Earlier on, the labels were color-coded as to software type (red for games, blue for education, etc. I don't know if that was the exact color code, though); later on, the color-coding was abandoned. > From jeffh at eleventh.com Sun Mar 30 12:16:52 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it? >(I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about >4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them >on tape, with it. . .) I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have for the Aquarius? Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Mar 30 23:59:29 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? In-Reply-To: <199703310022.QAA17084@mars.ark.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970330215929.00dcf4cc@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:22 PM 3/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >Yes. Where are you? I have a manual that deals with both the hard drive and >the Drive "C" attachment. Also have two drive "C" units. Have never been >able to get them to work properly, and the docs don't help much. At any >rate, the manual is a rather thick document and unfortunately, it's not mine >to lend or sell at this point. Depending on what you want to know, I could >photocopy exerpts. I'm in Oregon, and as to what I'd like to know about it... Probably would like to get a copy of the entire manual if possible for addition to the files in my collection. I'd be happy to pay the cost of copying and shipping. As I've never tried to fire it up, is there a specific set of drivers for it? Or perhaps an updated CP/M disk with the drivers coded in? Thanks -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From transit at primenet.com Mon Mar 31 09:33:00 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it? > >(I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about > >4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them > >on tape, with it. . .) > > I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the > Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of > it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played > with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have > for the Aquarius? Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for sale . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From idavis at comland.com Mon Mar 31 13:42:40 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Attn: Jay Vaughan Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970331194240.008d4000@mail.comland.com > Please excuse the global post everyone, but Jay, if you could send me your email address, I will email you the fedex tracking number for your terminal. Thanks Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance. idavis@comland.com : Feeling the flow. indavis@juno.com : Working it. Working it. From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 31 05:56:57 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was >discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were >promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for >sale . . . Actually, the only piece of documentation I have for mine shows a pic of all kinds of stuff hooked to it as well as a price list for the stuff. It's pretty interesting. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From dastar at crl.com Mon Mar 31 18:45:45 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was > >discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were > >promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for > >sale . . . > > Actually, the only piece of documentation I have for mine shows a pic of > all kinds of stuff hooked to it as well as a price list for the stuff. It's > pretty interesting. As I wrote in my previous message, I had the expansion box, the thermal printer, the tape drive, 2 games and some game controllers. I still have a manual that I found somewhere. It's the only tie I have to my childhood computer. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Mon Mar 31 18:43:40 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the > Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of > it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played > with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have > for the Aquarius? This was my very first computer. I still miss it to this day. I harbor few regrets in my life but one of them is selling this system with my atari 2600 to buy my first apple. The 2600 I've since replaced (ten fold) and I'm sure someday I'll run into another aquarius and will have it too, but I can never replace the programming I did on it. I had a comic book inventory database program and I wrote seevral simple arcade games. My setup was the aquarius with an expansion box that plugged into the expansion slot that allowed two carthridges to be plugged in simultaneously. This allowed a 4K memory expansion card to be plugged in along with other game carthridges which required the increased memory. I had a 4K mem carthridge, a couple games, keypad controllers, a thermal printer, and two tape drives. What a fun little system. Some day I will recoup all this gear. I just hope the kid I sold it too got as much use out of it as I did. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 31 19:41:59 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Weekend Scavenging Message-ID: Yep, it was another profitable weekend scavenging mission! The stats: New Machines: 5 New Periphs: 3 New Manuals: 2 New Disks/Software: 60+ Money Spent: $32 So... help me with this stuff! These are all machines I've never had before. 1. Franklin Ace 500. Seems to be a really nice Apple II clone. Problem is I don't have a power supply. Any chance the ratings are the same as a IIc supply? 2. Tandy Color Computer. Boasts a whopping 4k! Fixed a broken keyboard - now all I have to do is find some software. 3. Atari 800xl! Oops, I lied earlier. I used to have one and now have one again. It was new, still-shrinkwrapped! 4. Televideo 950 terminal. Seems to be a nice terminal for one of my cp/m boxes. 5. HP Series 100. This one doesn't currently work. It will probably be a project for some upcoming weekend. Anyone know what it is? Very strange little machine... Also picked up a commodore printer and 1571 disk drive. It was a good weekend ;) Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 31 20:01:52 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? Message-ID: I was talking to a friend this weekend who brought up this idea that before long EPROMs in our old computers are going to start to go bad. This is something I've heard before but, to be honest, I don't know enough to make a judgement on it. If this is the case, I suppose I should be burning backups. While I'm at it... What are some other concerns along these lines. What should we be planning for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 31 10:04:42 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >This was my very first computer. I still miss it to this day. I harbor >few regrets in my life but one of them is selling this system with my >atari 2600 to buy my first apple. The 2600 I've since replaced (ten >fold) and I'm sure someday I'll run into another aquarius and will have >it too, but I can never replace the programming I did on it. I had a >comic book inventory database program and I wrote seevral simple arcade >games. My setup was the aquarius with an expansion box that plugged into >the expansion slot that allowed two carthridges to be plugged in >simultaneously. This allowed a 4K memory expansion card to be plugged in >along with other game carthridges which required the increased memory. I >had a 4K mem carthridge, a couple games, keypad controllers, a thermal >printer, and two tape drives. What a fun little system. Some day I will >recoup all this gear. I just hope the kid I sold it too got as much use >out of it as I did. Sam, Sounds like quite a system. From the picture on the flyer I have, the Aquarius hooked up to all the expansion gear was quite a sight as well. As has already been mentioned, I have two base Aquarius computers, one of which is the Mattel variant which I recently picked up on a whim. Would you be interested in this machine? It's fucntional,though needs a little cleaning up. You are welcome to it...just let me know. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 28 20:54:28 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 31, 97 06:01:52 pm Message-ID: <199704010254.VAA19332@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Whitson once stated: > > While I'm at it... What are some other concerns > along these lines. What should we be planning > for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? Replacement parts. One of the newsgroups I follow (which is a shadow of a mailing list) there was major concernt over the availability of floppy drive controller chip (the 1773 I think). That particular chip isn't being made anymore. Also, on the subject, floppy disks. I've heard they have a shelf life of approximately 10 years, but so far (knock on formica) I've been lucky (although out of a box of 10 8" disks, only three were good). -spc (Oh, don't forget lack of documentation - I have tons of PC cards that may well be perfectly good, I just don't know how to set them up ... ) From pcoad at crl.com Mon Mar 31 20:45:25 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bill, > > I was talking to a friend this weekend who brought > up this idea that before long EPROMs in our old > computers are going to start to go bad. This is > something I've heard before but, to be honest, I > don't know enough to make a judgement on it. If > this is the case, I suppose I should be burning > backups. > This is something about which to worry. > While I'm at it... What are some other concerns > along these lines. What should we be planning > for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? > My other worry is storage. Magnetic tapes and disks do not last forever. Hard disks do not last forever. How long until the last 8 incher finally gives up the ghost and sheds all of its bits? I know that there are still a few places which sell them, but how much longer will they be manufactured? How long until the last MFM hard drive wears out? Most manuals were not printed on acid free paper, how long until they start to turn to dust? How long do cassette tapes last? In 50 to 100 years how many of the machines that run fine today will not be usable because there are no disks on which to store programs or data? I have come across some solutions, though none of them are really optimal: Use a PC with a high grade sound card to store and load cassette data to older machines. I don't personally know if anyone has really done this. Store critical data (ROM images) on punched mylar tape. Store disk images on CDROM. (How long do these last? I've heard 50 years, can anyone confirm this?) This has the problem of moving the data from the CD to the target machine. I don't think that my PX-8 can understand ISO 9660 file systems. For the near term we can backup every disk we acquire. Pull out the old machines at least once a year and make new backups. Stockpile anything which will wear out. Keep everything clean, out of direct sunlight, and within a reasonable temperature range. Anyone have any really good long-term solutions for the preservation of our machines? --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From starling at umr.edu Fri Mar 28 21:20:33 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (Starling) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 31, 97 06:01:52 pm Message-ID: <199704010320.VAA23487@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Yes, "bit rot" is a indeed an actual problem for cartridges and machines that use EPROMs. I've been collecting Atari 2600 and other videogame cartridges for a while now and collectors in that community have been dealing with it for a while. I'm not an electrical engineer, but as I understand it, it's not an actual problem with the hardware of the machine itself. It's just that the magnetic alignment in the EPROM (erasable programmable read only memory) disintigrates. However if you have a backup of the chip, it can be re-programed using an EPROM burner. I know that for Atari 2600 cartridges, only prototype and low-quality 3rd party cartridges were made with EPROMs in them. I'd be surprised if any machines actually use EPROMs to store the ROM kernels, but perhaps they do. If so, a list of affected machines should be made. Perhaps I should crack open the cases on the machines in my collection when I go back to Texas and see if any of them have EPROMs in them. > While I'm at it... What are some other concerns > along these lines. What should we be planning > for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? I've always wondered about the use of electrolytic capacitors in computers. I believe that these buggers go bad after a while and need to be replaced. Is this true? I've also always been concered about floppy disks going bad. Do they have a definately lifespan? If so, it might be hard to find new 5.25", 8" or 3.25" (a la Amstrad) disks on which to copy ailing files. chris starling From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Mar 28 23:20:47 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: <199704010320.VAA23487@saucer.cc.umr.edu> from "Starling" at Mar 31, 97 09:20:33 pm Message-ID: <199704010520.WAA16425@calico.litterbox.com> Dunno about roms and eproms, but I have radios that are 50 years old and yeah, electrolytic caps do have a finite lifespan. They dry out. Mind, these are the old wax-cardboard wrapped kind and not the kind in the metal cans. But unless you're dealing with eniac and it's tube fired bretheren I'd not yet worry about your caps - or your resistors - yet. Also bear in mind that tube radio equipment gets a lot hotter than your computer does inside (right?) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From george.lin at documentum.com Mon Mar 31 22:20:06 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970331202006.00a6f100@lion.documentum.com> At 06:45 PM 3/31/97 -0800, you wrote: >Use a PC with a high grade sound card to store and load cassette data to >older machines. I don't personally know if anyone has really done this. Good idea! I have not tried it but I think it should work. After you made the recordings, you can burn the sound files onto CD-ROMs for permanent archive. I know there are some computer emulators that do the opposite. You play your old cassette data through the sound card and the emulators will decode the "noise" into bits. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Sat Mar 29 00:24:33 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970331202006.00a6f100@lion.documentum.com> from "George Lin" at Mar 31, 97 08:20:06 pm Message-ID: <199704010624.WAA21421@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970331/63787507/attachment.ksh From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Sat Mar 29 00:26:39 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Attn: Jay Vaughan In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970331194240.008d4000@mail.comland.com > from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 31, 97 01:42:40 pm Message-ID: <199704010626.WAA21435@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 499 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970331/9b282d39/attachment.ksh From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Sat Mar 29 00:38:51 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: The Sexy ORIC!!!! Message-ID: <199704010638.WAA21540@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970331/efaac96b/attachment.ksh From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Thu Mar 13 18:37:21 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: You all should have heard from me already - but let me say once again - Welcome to the list. We've got around 50 subscribers at the moment which is far better than I thought we'd get for weeks. Couple things: 1. I'll be setting up the classiccmp web site this weekend. If you have any ideas for what should be there let me know. Currently, I'm planning on putting together a list of all computers that meet the "classic" criteria, copies of the various old computers FAQs, and hopefully some .PDF (acrobat reader) files of articles from old computer rags. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to maintain a list of resources but I know of relatively few. 2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). -Bill From josh at netins.net Thu Mar 13 19:37:21 1997 From: josh at netins.net (Josh M. Nutzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <199703140131.TAA06004@ins6.netins.net> I collect old Tandy's, including M102's & WP-2's (not the PCs), old AT&T Unix stuff, old Calculators (HP, etc.) Let me know if anybody finds anything! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 13 20:26:09 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970313182609.006cca2c@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:37 PM 3/13/97 -0800, you wrote: > >2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If >any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always >hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). Oh, don't ask questions like that! Especially when I'm working on preparations for a large public exhibit in the fall. My want list: (this week) Early Apple Macintosh gear (yeah, a LISA would be cool too!) Some Sinclair stuff (ZX-81/Timex series) PDP-8 ("straight" 8) Anything MITS IMSAI floppy disk sub-system (at least drive chassis) Anything S-100 Commodore PET ...??? ummm... gonna have to go back and look at the list on my OWN web page! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 13 10:46:51 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >At 04:37 PM 3/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >>2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If >>any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always >>hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). >Oh, don't ask questions like that! Especially when I'm working on >preparations for a large public exhibit in the fall. >My want list: (this week) >Early Apple Macintosh gear (yeah, a LISA would be cool too!) >Some Sinclair stuff (ZX-81/Timex series) >PDP-8 ("straight" 8) >Anything MITS >IMSAI floppy disk sub-system (at least drive chassis) >Anything S-100 >Commodore PET >...??? >ummm... gonna have to go back and look at the list on my OWN web page! B^} >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 I'm afraid it looks like you sent me a reply intended for someone else! On the topic of Timex-Sinclair/Sinclair ZX-81 though, I'm awaiting the arrival of a Sinclair ZX-81, with 16k RAM expansion and a number of tapes of programs, to go along with the boxed Timex-Sinclair 1000 I currently own. Unfortunately, it appears my T/S-1000 has ceased to function. Take care. Jeff -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 14 00:20:49 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:57 2005 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <199703140725.BAA14156@ds9.comland.com> Hello All, I am mainly interested in Atari 8bits, but have found that I enjoy using just about any classic type computer. If anyone has or needs atari information, let me know. I still have my 800 running. In fact, my kids are growing up on the exact same games that honed my skills, and keep me from being uncoordinated and walking into walls today. I know they enjoy them just as much as I still do. I am looking forward to watching my grandkids play choplifter on my original 800. Well, enough about me.... Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 14 01:33:01 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <19970314073546835.AAA123@computer-name> > I'm afraid it looks like you sent me a reply intended for someone else! On I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on the list? Is that right? What I would like is Photofact schematics for Atari computer hardware. I have some, but I know I will be needing them when I finish my electronics class. I have a Timex Sinclair stashed in my closet, with a box of tapes. I also have something that is very similar to it, but I don't know much about it. When I dig through my closet, I will report what I find, assuming anyone is interested. From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 13 16:57:06 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 14-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on >the list? Is that right? That is what it appears to be doing. I felt kind of silly after I stopped and thought about it once I had posted that reply! BTW, does anyone know of a good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various 2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way of removing the markings. >What I would like is Photofact schematics for Atari computer hardware. I >have some, but I know I will be needing them when I finish my electronics >class. I've never run across these. Were they something generally available when the Atari's were popular? >I have a Timex Sinclair stashed in my closet, with a box of tapes. I also >have something that is very similar to it, but I don't know much about it. >When I dig through my closet, I will report what I find, assuming anyone is >interested. I'd be interested in hearing anything about any T/S stuff you might have. Mine is the first computer I bought in 1982 and it is still boxed and all, but doesn't seem to function any more. There aren't a lot of chips and such on the mainboard of it to check for seating and such either! Jeff -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Fri Mar 14 09:34:15 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings all! 50 already? Wow, great! My name is Ron Kneusel and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks playing with these classic machines is fun! I'll do a quick run-down of what I have (to see if others have them and wish to talk about them): Heathkit H89, Kaypro II, Kaypro 2, SWTPc S/09 6809 system, Apple II+, Apple IIe, Atari 400, Atari 800XL (dead), T/S 1000 (bad keyboard), TRS-80 PC-2, Mac Plus, Mac SE Some questions for y'all.. 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear from you! 2. Can anyone list all the models in the Kaypro line? It seems like an "easy" series of machines to collect. Great design, too! 3. I, too, am interested in learning how to remove the marker from these machines. 4. Anyone have a Jupiter ACE they care to part with? 5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu http://keaggy.intmed.mcw.edu/my_collection.html From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 09:49:24 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: from "Ronald T Kneusel" at Mar 14, 97 09:34:15 am Message-ID: <199703141549.KAA07647@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Ronald T Kneusel once stated: > > Greetings all! > > 50 already? Wow, great! > > My name is Ron Kneusel and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who > thinks playing with these classic machines is fun! My name is Sean. (pauses for cries of "Hi, Sean!" to die down). I have a problem. I ... I collect old computers. > I'll do a quick run-down of what I have (to see if others have them and > wish to talk about them): > > Heathkit H89, Kaypro II, Kaypro 2, SWTPc S/09 6809 system, Apple II+, > Apple IIe, Atari 400, Atari 800XL (dead), T/S 1000 (bad keyboard), TRS-80 > PC-2, Mac Plus, Mac SE > > Some questions for y'all.. > > 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > from you! Is that anything like OS-9? > 3. I, too, am interested in learning how to remove the marker from these > machines. Has anyone tried Windex? Or empying the case and cleaning it with warm water and soap? > 5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them > (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) I try to use the machines I have, and my big project right now is to implement my own OS for them. Most of my machines (with the exception of three) are in good working condition. One needs a replacement harddrive (although getting VMS 4.7 on another drive might be a problem), another needs a new monitor (proprietary I suspect) and the third one I still need to examine (I suspect it still works, although the case is in poor codition). -spc (Software hacker) From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 09:55:10 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Greetings and Salutations! Message-ID: <199703141555.KAA07661@armigeron.com> Hello, my name is Sean. And I collect old computers. I send this to the list owner (as per instructions), so I figure I might as well send it to the list as well. The computers I currently own and use: Amiga 500 - working condition, seven years old (although the model itself dates from '87) IBM PCjr - Working condition, all original parts (new style keyboard though - never did get the chiclet style one). Xerox - Exact model unknown. Does something, but without a working monitor, can't tell for sure. Oh, that and while I have a harddrive for it, I don't have the connector. Tandy 6000 - Currently in the process of being restored. It would have been done a while ago except for my having dropped it. I think it survived, except for some major damage to the case. Generic 386 - Possibly 5 to 7 years old. The only thing unique about this computer is the brass colored metal base, I think from IBM. uVAX 2000 - Works, except I know very little VMS and the harddrive is going (possibly damaged during shipment - there is something loose inside the drive unit). Tandy 6000 - My first Tandy 6000 system in working condition. Also has a Tandy Data Terminal hooked up to it. Data General One - PClone portable made in 1984. Almost, but not quite 100% IBM compatible. Has perhaps the best keyboard of any laptop/portable I've ever encountered. In working condition. Color Computer 2 - My first computer, and still own it. Works, but in storage (no room to set it up). Color Computer 1 - Again, it works, but in storage. C64 - Works. In storage somewhere. Newton - My only Apple computer, and looks to be orphan. Works, in daily use 8-) I'm also planning (hope hope) to pick up an HP workstation this weekend. The local university (which I attended) is having an auction of old equipment, and if I heard correctly, the CS department (which I attended) has some equipment being auctioned off, and I suspect the units (all HPs I think) are the ones I learned Unix on (68020 based machines). They should go pretty cheaply in this day of PC hardware. -spc (About half my computers were free ... 8-) From ekman at lysator.liu.se Fri Mar 14 09:58:45 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: The use of old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them > (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) I like to use my machines. After all, that's what they were made for. The problem is that I don't have room for them all so I can only set up one or two at a time. I like to play classic games on them, and sometimes I do some programming. I have a portable Sord IS-11 from 1984, about the same size as the smallest modern lap-tops, with built-in software in ROM, which I intend to use for word processing in my work (I'm a part-time freelance computer journalist) as soon as I can build a cable to connect it with my PC. /F PS. I mostly collect Commodore and Sord computers, although I am interested in almost anything from the eighties. From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Fri Mar 14 10:01:08 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: Hi all, I am a fan of older computer systems. I own and use an Apple IIc, a IIc+, a IIGS, a C64, a C128, a PC 386 SX-20 (my newest comp), an Amiga 500, an Atari 1040 STF, a Kaypro 2, a Commodroe SX-64 executive portable, a TRS-80 Model 1, a TI99/4A's, an Atari 400 and an 800. I have them interconnected using various switchboxes to help them share resources like my modem, printers and monitors. My computer room is quite a show. I enjoy programming in various languages like Basic and C. I am also playing around with an old Wang OIS system as well but the proprietary level of the language is giving me some guff. I run support pages for various platforms. I am President of the Nova Scotia Apple Users Group, President of the Commodore Users Group of Nova Scotia, Disk Librarian of the Nova Scotia Atari Computers Users Group and President of the Classic Computer Club in Nova Scotia. I maintain websites for all of the above at the following urls: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/AppleUsersGroup/ http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/CUGNS/ http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/NSACUG/ http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Technology/Classic/ I also maintain the various platform software libraries on our freenet's Public Download Area at: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Services/PDA/ My homepage is at: http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ab616/ Regards, Tony Cianfaglione From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 10:10:11 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Uh, is this thing on? In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 13, 97 08:28:59 pm Message-ID: <199703141610.LAA07687@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Whitson once stated: > On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > > > IBM PCjr - Working condition, all original parts (new style keyboard > > though - never did get the chiclet style one). > > Too bad - you've gotta love the infra-red keyboard interface! But both keyboards for the PCjr (the original chicklet one, and the replacement keyboard) are infra-red (although I never did use the infra-red port, instead opting for the keyboard connection cable. Ends up being cheaper as I didn't have to buy AA batteries). It was perhaps the only two keyboards made by IBM that didn't have a nice feel to them [1]. > > Tandy 6000 - Currently in the process of being restored. It would have > > been done a while ago except for my having dropped it. I > > think it survived, except for some major damage to the > > case. > > Doh! It's awful to save a machine from the junk pile only to bring > it home and wreck it yourself. The Tandy 6000 is one heavy machine. The unit contains a built in monitor (10" I think - it's at home, I'm at work), one 8" drive, and a half-hight MFM harddrive in an akward enclosure. And the design of the case is that of a madman[2]. Both Tandy 6000s I have broke in the exact same place when I opened them for cleaning [4]. I fixed one, and have yet to get around to fixing the one I dropped. > > Newton - My only Apple computer, and looks to be orphan. Works, in > > daily use 8-) > > I'm not sure if this will _ever_ be a classic... :))) I don't know ... it's not a bad machine. -spc (Tired of using cheap PC crap ... ) [1] I'm very picky about my keyboards, and actually prefer IBM keyboards to any other kind. The best is the IBM AT keyboard, which has a nice layout, heavy construction and can be used to bludgeon a person (or a bad computer). The orginal IBM PC keyboard has the same feel, but the layout makes it all but unusuable. PS/2 keyboards don't quite have the same feel, but they're still better than 99% of all PC keyboards out there. Plus you can remove the keycaps and swap them around on unsuspecting people [3]. [2] The same madman must have designed the uVAX 2000 case, because in that one, you have to remove the motherboard to get to the harddrive. [3] Which I did to my officemate when I worked at IBM. [4] The monitor is attached to the top part of the case, with some analog circuitry along the side of the case. Attached to this is a connector to a small ribbon cable leading from the computer itself. In both machines, this connector came off with part of the board it was attached to still inside. Easily fixed with two DB25 connectors and some solder. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Mar 14 10:15:00 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 14-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on > >the list? Is that right? That is the basic functionality of a 'mailing list'... B^} > ... BTW, does anyone know of a > good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the > cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various > 2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way > of removing the markings. Oh yeah, run into that one ALL the time! What has always worked for me is Acetone on a paper towel. (ONLY in well ventilated areas!) Takes the marker off and evaporates quickly enough to not harm the paint or plastic. NOTE: put the Acetone on the PAPER TOWEL, NOT on the equipment! And always dispose of the used paper towels in an OUTSIDE garbage can! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From dcobley at mail.island.net Fri Mar 14 10:23:58 1997 From: dcobley at mail.island.net (David Cobley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <199703141623.IAA29016@norm.island.net> Bill, At 04:37 PM 3/13/97 -0800, you wrote: ,snip> >2. I'm going to a Salvation Army computer sale this weekend. If >any of you have really big wants - I'll look around. I'm always >hoping to find that elusive LISA-1 :). If you see any keyboards for the Hewlett-Packard HP125 system, they were alos used with the HP 26xx series, I'd love to buy a couple. Thanks. David Cobley. Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech and Hewlett-Packard Echoes. Internet-dcobley@mail.island.net, or, davidc@macn.bc.ca From dcobley at mail.island.net Fri Mar 14 10:23:59 1997 From: dcobley at mail.island.net (David Cobley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <199703141623.IAA29022@norm.island.net> Hi Josh. At 07:37 PM 3/13/97 -0600, you wrote: >I collect old Tandy's, including M102's & WP-2's (not the PCs), old AT&T >Unix stuff, old Calculators (HP, etc.) Let me know if anybody finds >anything! Among the storage of stuff I have and don't need is a large three-ring binder from Radio Shack and Titled Radio Shack TRS-89 Model II Owner's Manual. It contains TRS-80 Model II Operations Manual, TRS-80 Model 16 (Model II Mode) Disl Operating System Reference Manual, TRSDOS Version 2.0 ontains several Sections) Section 1. General Information, Section 2. Library Commands, Section 3. Utility Programs. Section 4. Technical Information, Section 5. Appendices, Introduction, Commands, Technical Information, Appendices The Binder and contents are in "as new" condition. I have no need for it. Are you ?or anyone else on the list interested in having it? I would pack and ship it to someone who really wants it. Recipient pays any shipping expenses. It weighs several pounds . David Cobley. Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech and Hewlett-Packard Echoes. Internet-dcobley@mail.island.net, or, davidc@macn.bc.ca From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 14 10:25:04 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970314162504.008e98c4@mail.comland.com > At 10:49 AM 3/14/97 -0500, Sean wrote: > I try to use the machines I have, and my big project right now is to >implement my own OS for them. Most of my machines (with the exception of >three) are in good working condition. One needs a replacement harddrive What's a harddrive?? I use my atari just about every day. Thanks to some of the emulators, I still use a program that I wrote about 13 years ago. It's a program to list out the important things I have to do each day. It's a really old scheduler, but it's easy to use, and works like a charm. If anyone knows or has an eprom burner or information about burning cartridges on the atari, I would appreciate hearing from them. My dad has a RomMax 4G Universal Eprom Programmer at work, and we cant seem to read the eproms from any cartridge. I would like to figure this out, maybe there is a proprietary scheme, but we can't seem to figure it out. I would also like to acquire my own eprom burner, so anyone with a cheap no frills one for sale, please let me know. Of course, it would help if it could read these atari roms. Thanks in advance. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From adam.bergstrom at um.erisoft.se Fri Mar 14 10:25:37 1997 From: adam.bergstrom at um.erisoft.se (Adam Bergstrom) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: cover cleaning References: Message-ID: <33297C01.48B9@um.erisoft.se> I have successfully cleaned a few computer covers (plastic) with hot water and ordinary washing detergent. Just leave the cover in for half an hour, and use the dishbrush gently. The results have been quite marvelous! The acetone trick is also good, but don't rub too much or the plastic WILL become soft! /Adam From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Mar 14 10:35:11 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Mar 14, 97 08:15:00 am Message-ID: <199703141635.JAA17263@calico.litterbox.com> to get stickers and stuff off computer cases - there's a product called GOO GONE. It's a little less harsh than acitone (ie it's probably somewhat less carcinogenic) and won't eat the plastic. Or at least it hasn't for me. On a related note, has anyone found a better way than softscrub and/or hot soapy water to get cigarrette smoke deposits off a system? My GS was owned by a chain smoker from a family of chain smokers and I literally had to pull each piece out of its case and scrub it clean (boy the keyboard sure was fun) to get the yellow gunk off. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two. One to hold the giraffe and the other to fill the bathtub with brightly colored machine tools. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Mar 14 10:41:04 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: from "hellige" at Mar 14, 97 03:57:06 am Message-ID: <199703141641.JAA17308@calico.litterbox.com> Ooo.. "Peanut" (PCJr) keyboards. Anyone have a spare? to sell? anyone know if the IR format is documented anywhere? (gleams of having one to talk to my palmtop with in my eyes) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two. One to hold the giraffe and the other to fill the bathtub with brightly colored machine tools. From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 14 11:02:38 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703141641.JAA17308@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim" at Mar 14, 97 09:41:04 am Message-ID: <199703141702.MAA07886@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Jim once stated: > > Ooo.. "Peanut" (PCJr) keyboards. Anyone have a spare? to sell? anyone know if > the IR format is documented anywhere? (gleams of having one to talk to my > palmtop with in my eyes) Sorry, don't have any spare PCjr keyboards, but I do have the technical manual for the PCjr at home. If I remember, I'll type up the information and send it to the list. -spc (Hmmmm, wonder if my Newton could emulate the PCjr keyboard? 8-) From gram at cnct.com Fri Mar 14 12:21:36 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703141549.KAA07647@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Ronald T Kneusel once stated: > > > > 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > > from you! > > Is that anything like OS-9? > The Southwest Technical Products Corporation S/09 was a box that contained a MC6809 cpu card in a SS-50 bus. OS-9 was one of several OSs that ran on it, in fact I believe that it was the platform that OS-9 was originally developed on. But I could be wrong about that, and I suspect that Microware was working on predecessors to OS-9 on MC6800 systems. Ward Griffiths From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 14 12:48:52 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33299b86.890608@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 03:57:06 +0500, you wrote: > >>I think I am getting the idea. Each message we send goes to *everyone* on >>the list? Is that right? > > That is what it appears to be doing. I felt kind of silly after I stopped >and thought about it once I had posted that reply! BTW, does anyone know of a >good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the >cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various >2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way >of removing the markings. Yes, that is how a mailing list works, anything sent to the list goes to all. I am Barry Peterson, live in Oklahoma City, retired but busier than most folks I know... ;^) I own a few TI-99/4A systems (my first) and have been president of the local TI-99 users group. I also have a Kaypro (CP/M) and a TRS-80 Model 4P. (In the garage) Try lacquer thinner to clean the plastic, it's worked for me. _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 14 13:52:34 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: cover cleaning In-Reply-To: <33297C01.48B9@um.erisoft.se> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314145234.006b209c@mail.northernway.net> At 05:25 PM 3/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >I have successfully cleaned a few computer covers (plastic) >with hot water and ordinary washing detergent. Just leave the >cover in for half an hour, and use the dishbrush gently. >The results have been quite marvelous! > >The acetone trick is also good, but don't rub too much or the >plastic WILL become soft! This gets *some* markers that I've tried, and it's really good at getting the goo off of cases without melting them: straight Naptha. You can buy it at hardware stores. However, it's *super* flammable, so if yer smokin' while you're cleanin', you'll probably end up in smoke! I've also used this to dissolve the spare residue from solder flux. It works well, but again, don't get that soldering iron near it! (Especially mine, it's butane fired!) I've used this to de-goo 3 or 4 Tandy 200 laptop cases, and it's one of the *very* few things that can safely dissolve wax. I learned this when I learned about candlemaking. However, it doesn't have much luck against smoke damage. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Mar 14 13:04:18 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! References: Message-ID: <3329A132.2C00@oboe.calpoly.edu> > BTW, does anyone know of a > good way of removing permenant magic marker from the plastic, such as the > cases, of these machines? Some of my machines were marked on by the various > 2nd hand shops and such I bought them from, and I've never come up with a way > of removing the markings. Goo Gone is the key I believe. Cleans everything. Works great for those pesky price stickers and old tape adhesive too. And it smells like oranges! You still have to be careful if you rub too hard you can alter the texture of the plastic. But that goes double for acetone and lacquer thinner. I've heard baby oil works for stickers too but I haven't tried it. From gram at cnct.com Fri Mar 14 14:12:32 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: One sick puppy... Message-ID: If you want to see a collection that will make you drool all over yourselves, click over to and look at the pictures toward the bottom of the page. And I thought that I had a bad habit (well, my fiance thinks it is) of never throwing anything away. And those of you within reach, don't forget the 22nd Trenton Computer Festival April 26-27. It's one hell of a swap meet. (I'm told they have speakers and exhibitors inside, but I never seem to get away from the parking lots). Ward Griffiths There will be peace on earth when the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Fri Mar 14 13:59:59 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > The Southwest Technical Products Corporation S/09 was a box that > contained a MC6809 cpu card in a SS-50 bus. OS-9 was one of several > OSs that ran on it, in fact I believe that it was the platform that > OS-9 was originally developed on. But I could be wrong about that, > and I suspect that Microware was working on predecessors to OS-9 on > MC6800 systems. Yup. The one I have, however, is designed for UniFLEX. It comes up with the UniBug monitor which will let me change/dump memory and boot 8" floppies, a hard drive, or a Winchester hard drive, all of which I don't have. I was, through the great kindness of others, given a good FD-2 controller for 5.25" drives and the S-BUG monitor ROM. Unfortunately, the S-BUG ROM will not work in the S/09 system, as stated in the system manual. :( And the UniBug monitor is too wimpy to let me enter the FD-2 boot code by hand (I can enter it, but there is no "run" command!) I've found the extensive UniFLEX archive on the net and have looked at the code for the UniBug monitor but none of those versions match mine (version 1.11) I'm considering writing my own ROM code if I could get someone to make an EPROM for me. Any help with getting this S/09 to be a regular -09 system so I can run FLEX as a single user off of 5.25" floppies would be greatly appreciated! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Mar 14 19:49:59 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: One sick puppy... References: Message-ID: <332A0046.26B2@goldrush.com> Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > > If you want to see a collection that will make you drool all over > yourselves, click over to and look > at the pictures toward the bottom of the page. And I thought that I > had a bad habit (well, my fiance thinks it is) of never throwing > anything away. > I AM IMPRESSED WITH THE PICS! Gosh I guess I really need a bigger toybox. :( Now I got to get my 'collection' pic on my page, (not nearly as impressive, but interesting nonetheless. Hey, can we digest this maillist? I think my incoming mail beat out my wife's this time. Well she says we were even... (many of hers ARE digests, yikes!) So who's a PET owner out there? Got any good software, extra books or magazines??? (btw: check out University Microfilm: http://www.umi.com/ they have computer magazines on film that go back to the 70s! (I was surprised to see Micro and some old dates for COMPUTE!) Got any info. on an MTU visible memory board?? I just pulled out a few PETs, which have to suffer in storage (sigh), to do a Flash Attack tourny at my BBS/Gaming gathering, only to discover one is brain dead & monitor weak, one ok, and the third is ok but has an unknown problem (runs just about everything BUT Flash Attack, (all have the same ROM revision, etc.) So I guess I will bring just one (to play other games) and do the F.A. beta I and a friend coded for the 64. (sigh, went and added PET sound hookups to the cable and everything!) While having them out I got a chance to explore the contents of that 'system-2001.zoo' archive I FTPed from funet.fi (pub/cbm/pet/ I think), many of the games are in English some of the ones in German are pretty easy to figure out. Regardless this is one excellent collection of games, many of them in ML or hybrid. A must D/L for PET collectors! Where to find PETS? Kinda hard nowadays, try some of the older Commodore repair shops, though shipping would be pretty steep (they are heavy) other than that flea markets or large thrift stores (that have room for alot of computers and stuff. In CA there is a place called Weird Stuff that is famed for it's stock of old equipment and parts. Haven't been to it yet but it definitely is on my list. ;) Larry Anderson From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Mar 14 19:16:25 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: One sick puppy... References: <332A0046.26B2@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <3329F869.2EA1@oboe.calpoly.edu> > Where to find PETS? Kinda hard nowadays, try some of the older > Commodore repair shops, though shipping would be pretty steep (they are > heavy) other than that flea markets or large thrift stores (that have > room for alot of computers and stuff. In CA there is a place called > Weird Stuff that is famed for it's stock of old equipment and parts. > Haven't been to it yet but it definitely is on my list. ;) I passed on a PET a while back at the Goodwill. Should've bought it. They are big though. I've been to Weird Stuff and they have a lot of old stuff but their prices were a little steep when compared to thrift stores, garage sales, etc. If they have that one thing you can't find though, go for it. It's fun looking at all the stuff anyway. Greg From estabrr at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 14 20:22:02 1997 From: estabrr at ix.netcom.com (Richard Estabrook) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Collecting Kaypros for fun and profit Message-ID: <199703150222.UAA22656@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> Ron Kneusel wrote: > >> SNIP << > >2. Can anyone list all the models in the Kaypro line? It seems like an "easy" series of machines to collect. Great design, too! > Non-Linear Systems, Inc. (aka Kaypro Computer) made a great many different machines. The most collectable would be the early CP/M systems. Their later DOS-based machines were not all that memorable. These machines include the Kaycomp, Kaypro II, Kaypro IV, Kaypro 1, 2, 2x, 4, 4x, 10, 12, and the Robie. The Kaypro 16 and 16/2 were DOS machines in Kaypro 10/12 boxes. Kaypros are great to collect! Parts are available from most electronics suppliers. A complete technical manual is avaiable from Dave Baldwin at The Computer Journal (TCJ). Spares can be obtained from any local Goodwill or flea market. There is no greater satisfaction than that gotten from canibalizing an old IBM XT to rebuild a Kaypro! I'm still looking for a Kaypro 4x that needs a good home! Rich Estabrook, estabrr@ix.netcom.com From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Mar 14 19:39:38 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <3329FDDA.36CB@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, There are a few systems at our local Goodwill tht have been sitting there for a while. 3 IBM PC Jr's IBM PS/2 A Televideo w/built-in screen and drives w/book A Laser Apple II clone w/monitor with some keyboard buttons missing. Probably $20 each plus shipping. Just thought I'd ask. I'm not going to pick them up unless someone else wants them Greg -- _________________________________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30.......Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From wbrco at valuenet.net Fri Mar 14 21:20:47 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! References: Message-ID: <332A158E.5148@valuenet.net> Ronald T Kneusel wrote: > 1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > from you! Ohhh yea! Got lots! Got lots of documentation and software too. -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From wbrco at valuenet.net Fri Mar 14 21:24:31 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Greetings and Salutations! References: <199703141555.KAA07661@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <332A166F.1750@valuenet.net> Captain Napalm wrote: > Xerox - Exact model unknown. Does something, but without a > working monitor, can't tell for sure. Oh, that and while > I have a harddrive for it, I don't have the connector. Hmm.. Not the foot print of a 8" floppy drive is it? Look for something that says 820 on it. The Xerox 820's were good CP/M and LDos machines. Z80, IO, 64k etc... But I'm not an expert. I've copied someone in who is. Maybe I can get him to join the list! -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From wbrco at valuenet.net Fri Mar 14 22:59:33 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends References: <3329FDDA.36CB@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: <332A2CB5.3D0D@valuenet.net> Greg Mast wrote: > > Hello, > > There are a few systems at our local Goodwill tht have been sitting > there for a while. Has anyone but me discovered AuctionWeb? Lot's of newish pc crud, but occationally, the odd TI or Atari. BTW, for you Sinclair crazy's.. I have an original ZX-80!! Yes, I built it myself.. This was the one BEFORE Clive designed the big chip to replace all the glue logic. It only runs in fast mode. I also have - would you believe - A Sinclair Clone. Called "Your Computer" made in Hong Kong. Takes all the Sinclair accessories, has a composite video out, a rubber qwrty keyboard, joystick, and adverts "sound and music". I've never put power to it... Have the outer box, and manual. If anybody knows any more about it, let me know! -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From tedbird at ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 14 23:31:35 1997 From: tedbird at ix.netcom.com (Ted Birdsell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! References: <332A158E.5148@valuenet.net> Message-ID: <332A3437.F19@ix.netcom.com> Hi, Good to see so many classic computer fans. I currently have 82 classic computers (65 different models, 17 duplicates). I'm looking for a Commodore KIM-1 and PET 2001. If anyone is interested in swapping for a Osborne I, let me know. Ted From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 14 23:48:53 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: <19970315060050571.AAA125@computer-name> > >What I would like is Photofact schematics for Atari computer hardware. I > >have some, but I know I will be needing them when I finish my electronics > >class. > > I've never run across these. Were they something generally available when > the Atari's were popular? It's not a matter of being "popular". Every electronic device ever made has schematics for it. In fact, the schematics are made first. It's basically a blueprint of what electronic components are, and an occasional tip on how to repair. It's made for electronic technicians. I noticed you have a list of systems in your sig including the TI-99/4a. Man, that was a fun computer! I wonder how Texas Instruments came up with that model number. mhop@snip.net From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 14 23:56:00 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello Message-ID: <19970315060050571.AAC125@computer-name> > Hello All, > I am mainly interested in Atari 8bits, but have found that I enjoy > using just about any classic type computer. If anyone has or needs atari > information, let me know. I still have my 800 running. In fact, my kids are > growing up on the exact same games that honed my skills, and keep me from > being uncoordinated and walking into walls today. I know they enjoy them > just as much as I still do. I am looking forward to watching my grandkids > play choplifter on my original 800. Well, enough about me.... > Isaac Davis Our computer user groups meets at my place once a month, and I have an 8 bit set up too, but it rarely gets touched - when someone finds a game that they are curious enough. Most of the time, the Jaguars and the PC gets the attention during our meetings. Not to mention the beer. :) mhop@snip.net From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 15 01:37:26 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970315023724.0091a920@mail.northernway.net> At 10:59 PM 3/14/97 -0600, you wrote: >Has anyone but me discovered AuctionWeb? I stop in there at least 1-2 times per week, and occasionally puchase from there, when the mood strikes. As a matter of fact, one of the "crazy" machines on sale there is a Tandy 600 laptop. Remember those? I actually have one, a friend sent it to me for free. It needed fixing, tho... one key cap spring was missing (replaced it with a Tandy 200 space-key spring) and I need to put in new nicads (anyone know a good source for lithium-ion???) Trivia: This was the first built-in floppy laptop made. (It's OEM is Zenith, as a matter of fact, so if someone says "Zenith did it first" you're still right.) Anyway, for y'all that haven't discovered it yet, head to: http://www.ebay.com/aw/ and you'll find a treasure trove of goodies (sometimes). Cya l8r, "Merch" Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 00:46:06 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: SWTPc S/09 system? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314224606.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:34 AM 3/14/97 -0600, you wrote: > >Greetings all! H'lo... >Some questions for y'all.. > >1. Anyone else have a SWTPc S/09 system? If so, I'd really like to hear > from you! I've got one in the collection. Needs a good cleaning, a boot disk, and some docs... B^} >5. Do you actually _use_ your machines or do you simply collect them > (which is just fine! I'm curious to see how people use them) Mine tend to be in intermittant (if not frequent) use. Most reciently one of my Altairs ended up hooked up to a DEC card reader, feeding data to my PC, which... well... that would spoil the story! A longer form of the story can be found on my web pages (see sig below) along with pix and (if I get the time this weekend) an AVI clip of the operation... While we're in the SWTPC arena, a question for the group: I'm looking for some information, software, and docs on a recient addition to the collection. The item in question is a board marked as a 'Digisector DS-68' from 'The Micro Works'. The board has a 1978 copyright on it, and appears to be designed for use with an SS-50 bus machine such as the SWTPC 680x series of microcomputers. Curiously, when it came to me it had been mated (fairly elegantly, fortunately) to a MITS 4PIO board, apparently for use with an 8080 or Z-80 based system. (by someone with the full docs I would suspect) I'd like to get it going in its original configuration/system. Any assistance appreciated! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 00:54:53 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970314162504.008e98c4@mail.comland.com > Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314225453.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> At 10:25 AM 3/14/97 -0600, you wrote: >If anyone knows or has an eprom burner or information about burning >cartridges on the atari, I would appreciate hearing from them. My dad has a >RomMax 4G Universal Eprom Programmer at work, and we cant seem to read the >eproms from any cartridge. I would like to figure this out, maybe there is >a proprietary scheme, but we can't seem to figure it out. Hmmm... have not looked at Atari ROMs since the days when I used to service them, but they might have used a trick I first noticed on the Apple // ROMs. One of the chip select lines is inverted from the norm, so if you put it in a standard programmer it would always appear blank. As our programmers at the time were not real bright, I built a test socket that we plugged into the programmer and then plugged the ROM into the test socket. The test socket had a 7406 ('04?, it's late) hex inverter and a set of jumpers on it that allowed us to selectively invert any/all of the chip select lines. Problem solved! And curiously enough, the inverted line tended to be the program voltage line on the matching EPROM so if we needed to install one in an Apple // as a replacement we just needed to remember to fold that pin under. Might be worth a look. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 00:56:28 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: cover cleaning In-Reply-To: <33297C01.48B9@um.erisoft.se> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314225628.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:25 PM 3/14/97 +0100, you wrote: >I have successfully cleaned a few computer covers (plastic) >with hot water and ordinary washing detergent. Just leave the >cover in for half an hour, and use the dishbrush gently. >The results have been quite marvelous! > >The acetone trick is also good, but don't rub too much or the >plastic WILL become soft! True enough, which is one of the reasons I specified putting the Acetone on the paper towel rather than the surface to be cleaned. And then use caution... Stopping to let the surface dry properly IS important! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 01:28:04 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: ...and now a word... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970314232804.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> Hope this won't be construed as advertising, but I thought it worth a mention... (and maybe it will get people to check out my web pages B^} ) In the course of things, I've ended up doing a number of restorations on 'classic computers' both in my own collection and for others, and as such I've developed sources for many otherwise hard to come by parts. The one example I'd like to mention here are replacement front panel switches for Altair and IMSAI microcomputers. I have exact, original manufacturer replacement switches for all models of Altair (both the original small toggles, and the longer flattened toggle for the A/B series) and complete switches and/or replacement toggle levers (in both red and blue) for the IMSAI micros. Details and pricing are available on my web pages. Equipment restorations also available. Soon to come: Replacement dress front panels (painted and screened) for the Altair 8800/8800a microcomputer. Regards; -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Sat Mar 15 00:52:59 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: AuctionWeb References: <3.0.32.19970315023724.0091a920@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <332A474B.5966@oboe.calpoly.edu> > >Has anyone but me discovered AuctionWeb? > > I stop in there at least 1-2 times per week, and occasionally puchase from > there, when the mood strikes. > Anyway, for y'all that haven't discovered it yet, head to: > > http://www.ebay.com/aw/ I usually list my computers there for sale. Sometimes it's hard to tell what the going price is on this stuff. In the auction, the buyers set the price. I usually do alright and the people buying seem very happy to get them so I guess everybody does ok. And it's a blast scanning the listings. As a matter of fact, I have been bugging them to add a category for "collectible computers" or "classic computers" or "computers over 10 years old" or "non-IBM/Apple computers"... Well, you get the idea. The listings get lost in the middle of all the PC stuff. And the same with software. Glad they have a good search function or you would never be able to find the "good" stuff. In any case, if some of you from the list would email them on the feedback address, mailto:aw-feedback@ebay.com, maybe they would go for it. They have over 30 collectibles categories. I know there would be enough listings to make it worth doing. Greg From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 13 23:02:06 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >It's not a matter of being "popular". Every electronic device ever made >has schematics for it. In fact, the schematics are made first. It's >basically a blueprint of what electronic components are, and an occasional >tip on how to repair. It's made for electronic technicians. I realize every piece of electronic equipment has a schematic published for it, but I was inquiring whether the ones he was referring to were some that were readily available, or if they were of the type that only a technician was likely to have access to. >I noticed you have a list of systems in your sig including the TI-99/4a. >Man, that was a fun computer! I wonder how Texas Instruments came up with >that model number. Yes, it's a great machine. I have a boxed TI-99/4a, PEbox with 32k RAM and disk drive w/interface, the speech synthesizer, and a number of command modules. It's in great shape cosmetically as well. I'm trying to work out a deal for an RS232 card for the PEbox now. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Sat Mar 15 07:37:53 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Atari carts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970314225453.00e2546c@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Jim Willing wrote: > >If anyone knows or has an eprom burner or information about burning > >cartridges on the atari, I would appreciate hearing from them. My dad has a > > One of the chip select lines is inverted from the norm, so if you put it in > a standard programmer it would always appear blank. As our programmers at > the time were not real bright, I built a test socket that we plugged into > the programmer and then plugged the ROM into the test socket. I know that this is done for the Atari 2600 carts, so I imagine it would be done for the computer carts as well. - Ron From jeffh at eleventh.com Fri Mar 14 22:13:51 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: current wants Message-ID: Would anyone have any of the following and be willing to part with it: 1) Printhead for Commodore VIC-1525 printer, as well as info on any ribbons that would work in this printer 2) Sinclair/Timex-Sinclair stuff: I was looking through an old Gladstone Electronics catalog, from Feb. 1983, and noticed they showed a lot of add-ons for the T/S-1000 and ZX-81, such as speech synthesizers, Centronics and RS232 interfaces, modems, the ZX Printer, and even a disk subsystem. I'd like more info on some of what was available for these machines, as I never bothered to buy anything other than the 16k Ram expansion for mine. I used it strictly for BASIC programming at the time. Also, I'd be interested in picking up a Timex-Sinclair 2068. Btw, thanks to all those that responded to my inquiry about removing magic marker from the cases. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 15 10:11:47 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: ...and now a word... Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970315111145.00a15d60@mail.northernway.net> At 11:28 PM 3/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hope this won't be construed as advertising, but I thought it worth a >mention... (and maybe it will get people to check out my web pages B^} ) [ ad snipped ] Well, to be honest, it's tough not to construe that post as advertising, as it clearly was. Good! If you don't advertise that you may be good at something, or have some crazy parts for a crazy machine in stock, a useful machine might stay in the closet because someone can't fix it. And seeing good machines collect dust is something I just can't endure! IMHO, as long as it's not SPAM, keep sending those advertisements! Here's mine: I've recently begun refurbishing several Tandy 200 laptops for a friend of mine in CA. Subsequently, I've learned several tricks on how to fix these fantastic little computers. If you need pointers on fixing up T200's, let me know. Or if you don't want to tackle it yourself, I'm willing to fix them for $25/hr benchtime + shipping to and from. You only pay if the machine gets fixed, other than shipping to me. If I can't fix it, I'll pay for shipping back to you. Keep those geezers rolling along! Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From danjo at xnet.com Sat Mar 15 10:47:08 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Dan and Joanne Tucker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Why would I do this? In-Reply-To: <332A3437.F19@ix.netcom.com> from "Ted Birdsell" at Mar 15, 97 00:31:35 am Message-ID: <199703151647.KAA27356@xnet.com> > Hi, > > Good to see so many classic computer fans. I currently have 82 classic > computers (65 different models, 17 duplicates). I'm looking for a > Commodore KIM-1 and PET 2001. If anyone is interested in swapping for a > Osborne I, let me know. > > Ted Why would I trade/swap/sell my perfectly running MOS Tech KIM-1 board for a piece of junk Osborne 1????????? 8-) Now you say you have 17 duplicates - what are they? Just don't say 17 Osbornes 8-) BC From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 10:46:51 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: ...and now a word... In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970315111145.00a15d60@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970315084651.00e8e3b4@agora.rdrop.com> At 11:11 AM 3/15/97 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:28 PM 3/14/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Hope this won't be construed as advertising, but I thought it worth a >>mention... (and maybe it will get people to check out my web pages B^} ) > >[ ad snipped ] > > >Well, to be honest, it's tough not to construe that post as advertising, as >it clearly was. > Ok, it was late... mayhaps I should have phrased it is "blatant advertising"? B^} B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From josh at netins.net Sat Mar 15 15:22:25 1997 From: josh at netins.net (Josh M. Nutzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <199703152114.PAA23280@ins1.netins.net> I used to own a Zenith laptop, a ZP-150 I belive. Looked like a Tandy 600, except no floppy. Used 10 AA batteries!!! Had same "Microsoft Works" software on it too! Josh M. Nutzman +----------------------------------------------+ |"Life is like a river, you go with the flow...| | but in the end you usually end up dammed." | | -The Red Green Show | +----------------------------------------------+ From BNICALEK at aol.com Sat Mar 15 17:03:15 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970315180314_141280904@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-15 01:04:11 EST, you write: << I noticed you have a list of systems in your sig including the TI-99/4a. Man, that was a fun computer! I wonder how Texas Instruments came up with that model number. mhop@snip.net >> The "TI-99/4A" was derived from the following: TI: Texas Instruments, of Course. 99: A cute little number based on the "9900" microprocessor, which the computer had as the CPU. 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? A: The enhanced model of the "TI-99/4", which came out in 1981, the 99/4 came out around 1978. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com or reply direct to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From wbrco at valuenet.net Sat Mar 15 17:54:47 1997 From: wbrco at valuenet.net (Allen Underdown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends References: <199703152114.PAA23280@ins1.netins.net> Message-ID: <332B36C7.2ED2@valuenet.net> Josh M. Nutzman wrote: > > I used to own a Zenith laptop, a ZP-150 I belive. Looked like a Tandy > 600, except no floppy. Used 10 AA batteries!!! Had same "Microsoft Works" > software on it too! My father still has his, and uses it frequently for packet radio! I frankly, never liked it much, but for the time it was pretty slick. -- | Allen Underdown - wbrco@valuenet.net | | Amateur Radio Operator - N0GOM, computer geek, | | homebrewer and outdoor enthusiast! | | Try My BBS at 314.939.9445! | From Ryerdon at aol.com Sat Mar 15 17:34:23 1997 From: Ryerdon at aol.com (Ryerdon@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970315183422_1948948696@emout13.mail.aol.com> Oops, you must have me confused with someone else. I don't have a TI computer (lots of others, but not a TI). By the way, maybe I will piggyback my message here to add to what I said in another email to you people about an hour ago. I do not want in any way to throw cold water on your enthusiasm but I sense from the initial message soliticiting subscribers that you think you are plowing virgin computer areas in this area of old computers. I assume you are aware that there are lots of web sites already on the internet devoted to old computers. This doesn't mean one more won't be welcome but if on the off chance you aren't aware of the scope of exisitng stuff, here is a path you might want to check out: www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/ncs.htm. When you get to that web site, go down the list to Other Computer Historical Resources, then go down that list to the Obsolete Computer Museum. Well, the more the merrier ! From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Sat Mar 15 20:59:37 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Aargh! Message-ID: Just a quick note for those of you who subscribed Thursday, Friday, and Saturday - I'm no longer replying to introduction e-mail. I only anticipated a few subscribers and I have hundreds of messages in my inbox. You're all added to the list. Have fun! Bill From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Mar 15 21:29:07 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Aargh! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970315192907.006e6f84@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:59 PM 3/15/97 -0800, you wrote: >Just a quick note for those of you who subscribed >Thursday, Friday, and Saturday - > >I'm no longer replying to introduction e-mail. I only >anticipated a few subscribers and I have hundreds of messages >in my inbox. You're all added to the list. What Hath Bill Wrought? (snicker) >Have fun! One must always keep in mind with dealing with this subject, forecasts and prognostications are always off by even factors of powers of 2! B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Sat Mar 15 23:01:42 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Many topics... Message-ID: Hi all. I just finished reading the 279 classiccmp related e-mails in my inbox! I'm just going to cover all the bases with this message. 1. List Related I haven't received a tally for today but I'm pretty sure we broke 200 subscribers. I'm no longer requiring intro letters. (Those of who who told me this was a silly idea are allowed to snicker.) I'm looking into making the list available as a digest. I'm sure it's possible, I just don't know how to do it yet. I'm also aware (for those who asked) that this list doesn't particularly break new ground - I just thought it would be nice to have one place for everyone to chat. 2. Cleaning For removing stickers, gum, resin, etc: Goo Gone Acetone (can destroy plastic) Methane based freeze spray (can discolor plastic) Mineral Oil For removing marker Any solvent (alcohol, naptha, etc) Lava Soap (can damage texured surfacing) For removing sun/tobacco discoloring Purple Stuff (auto cleaner available at parts stores) This stuff works really well! For removing gunk from rubber parts Rubber Renew (MG Chemicals) 3. Ads/"Commercial" Posts As far as I'm concerned topic related advertisements are just fine on this list. It's hard to find parts for old systems and probably just as hard to sell them. 4. Crash course on mailing lists: When you write a message to the list - everyone gets it. When you respond to a message and choose to respond to all recipients everyone gets it. If a message is getting off topic you should probably stop replying to everyone and take it to private mail. To unsubscribe send a message to listproc@u.washington.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP your-address. 5. Salvation Army Computer Sale Sorry folks, I had car trouble and never made it :( That's it. I'm glad to see that the list is being used and I've been really impressed with the content so far. I'm still reeling from all the cool stuff I learned about while reading your intro letters. Bill Whitson CLASSICCMP "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From jeffh at eleventh.com Sat Mar 15 13:54:17 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: TI-99/4a for sale/trade Message-ID: I have an extra TI-99/4A console, with power supply, and was wondering if anybody would be interested in this? It works perfectly, and has been tested with a number of program cartridges/groms/command modules, as well as with a PEBox. It's the original silver/black, and is in fair shape cosmetically, with some scratches on the silver portion of the case. It is 100% complete, with no missing parts. I do not have the TI RF modulator for it though, as I have only one of these. If interested in it, I'd be open to all offers for this machine, including trades for other interesting equipment/peripheral. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Sat Mar 15 14:28:05 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Items found at thrift stores Message-ID: I went through a couple thrift stores today and found the following items for sale: 1) TI-99/4 Peripheral Expansion System: was intact, but only had the flex cable interface card, cable, floppy controller, and floppy disk drive installed. Was labeled as 'not working' and had a price of $5 on it. 2) Commodore Plus/4: included power supply, and was labeled as 'not working' but did power up. couldn't plug it up to a TV. had a price of $7 on it. Loose..no box or manual. 3) Commodore 1541 disk drive: new style (brown case, flip handle). condition unknown though looks good. lacks serial cable. price of $4. If anybody is in need of these items, or is interested in them, let me know and we could probably work something out for me to pick them up and ship them to you for the cost of it plus the shipping. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From magnus at ii.uib.no Sun Mar 16 00:53:51 1997 From: magnus at ii.uib.no (Magnus Y Alvestad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:58 2005 Subject: Pied Piper In-Reply-To: hellige's message of Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:54:17 +0500 Message-ID: Does anyone have any disks for the Pied Piper? I have one, but nothing to run on it. It's a CP/M computer built in Hong Kong. -Magnus 2 x ND100 (Norsk Data) 2 x Altos MicroVax 3100 VaxStation 3100 NeXT Cube Oric Pied Piper From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 01:34:34 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Odds & Ends Message-ID: <19970316073940846.AAC142@computer-name> > Called "Your Computer" made in Hong Kong. Takes all the > Sinclair accessories, has a composite video out, a rubber > qwrty keyboard, joystick, and adverts "sound and music". > I've never put power to it... Have the outer box, and manual. > If anybody knows any more about it, let me know! That's it! That's the "other" Sinclair I mentioned! I have one too, and haven't touched it in years. mhop@snip.net From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Sun Mar 16 00:53:27 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) Message-ID: I imagine one of you out there must be interested... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:22:21 -0500 (EST) From: Larry D. Barchett To: Bill Whitson Subject: Re: Classic Computers List Not real interested in your list at the moment (too much else to read), but I have something that may be of interest to your target audience. I have a PDP-11/23 that I will have to get rid of soon (it actually belongs to the lab I work for, and they want the space). I have been able to keep it around for a while in the hopes of finding a good home for it. I will be able to keep it until the end of May (I graduate then, and when I'm gone, they'll throw it out). The machine is free for the taking (taker figures out how to get it to wherever they want it). Don't know if it works now, but it did when they took it offline several years ago. It sat untouched for the most part, but someone did throw away one of the side covers. Comes with a RL-02 cartridge disk, a PRIME-2 terminal, and the main processor, in a small cabinet. Someone PLEASE save this classic machine. ldb -- --- Preserve wildlife. Pickle a squirrel today. --- /===================================================================\ |........Go!........ Larry D. Barchett | |....NNN.....NNN.... Department of Computer Science and Engineering | |.....N.N.....N .... University of Notre Dame | |..DDDDDDNDDDDDDD... Notre Dame, IN 46556-5637 | |...D.N...N...N..D.. | |..DDDDDDDDNDDDDD... Internet: ldb@cse.nd.edu | |.....N.....N N..... | |....NNN.....NNN.... Phone: 219-631-5772 | |.......IRISH....... WWW: http://www.cse.nd.edu/~dcrlab/ldb | \===================================================================/ From classicjr at juno.com Sun Mar 16 11:23:47 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (J, G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Lemon Extract References: Message-ID: <19970316.092348.10079.0.classicjr@juno.com> Hi all! This list is great. I have been collecting and trading computers since 1983. I'll make a list soon, but for now I thought I'd throw in my solution to the spots and dirt on the computer case and keyboard problem... Try Lemon Extract (from your local grocery store spices section) on a paper towel. I was given the idea from a former acqauintence who repaired machines. It seems to work great on most plastic surfaces!! Jeff Rottman in Texas From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Sun Mar 16 10:40:30 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Keyboard for Amiga 1000 Message-ID: Hi guys, I was at my local PC scrap house and picked up a lonely A1000 sitting in the corner. I got the startup disks and a mouse for it but there's only one problem: I don't have a keyboard! (Hey, I only paid $10 for it so...) Anyway, if anyone knows ANYWHERE I can get one, let me know! I've wanted one of these every since it came out! (Looks pretty sitting next to my 128D too) Thanks! Les PS I've called many Amiga supply houses including "Software Hut" which is pretty close by. The best anyone has been able to do is $75 for a A2000 keyboard with adaptor; I'd rather have the original style. (Besides, I can get an A1000 with keyboard for LESS than $75) From ronaldm at mars.ark.com Sun Mar 16 12:28:51 1997 From: ronaldm at mars.ark.com (Ron Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: current wants Message-ID: <199703161828.KAA25626@mars.ark.com> >2) Sinclair/Timex-Sinclair stuff: I was looking through an old Gladstone >Electronics catalog, from Feb. 1983, and noticed they showed a lot of add-ons >for the T/S-1000 and ZX-81, such as speech synthesizers, Centronics and RS232 >interfaces, modems, the ZX Printer, and even a disk subsystem. I'd like more >info on some of what was available for these machines, as I never bothered to >buy anything other than the 16k Ram expansion for mine. I used it strictly >for BASIC programming at the time. Also, I'd be interested in picking up a >Timex-Sinclair 2068. Jeff, I have an address and phone number here, an individual I met in 1993 or thereabouts. At that time I was interested in adding a disk drive to my Timex, and this chap had all the info. Never did follow up on that, but if this guy is still around, he'd probably be able to give you some of the information you're looking for. Nazir Pashtoon 940 Beau Drive Des Plaines Illinois, 60016 tel: (708) 439-1679 I've got a Timex/Sinclair 1000 here with a 16K expander. It sits on top of my VIC 20 and like you, I do some BASIC on it now and then. I figure that if any of my 17 computers are going to give me 6 winning numbers for the LOTO 6/49 it will be the Timex. So that's my only project with it - a LOTO program. I also had a Timex 2068 at one point, but unfortunately I gave it away. (pity.. one should NEVER do that). -Ron Mitchell Home of the 8 bit Speed Freaks From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 12:11:24 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Schematics Message-ID: <19970316185450436.AAA121@computer-name> > I realize every piece of electronic equipment has a schematic published for > it, but I was inquiring whether the ones he was referring to were some that > were readily available, or if they were of the type that only a technician was > likely to have access to. They would be in local electronics stores, so I suppose they are, or were, readily available. Over the years, I did find Sams Computerfacts for the Atari 400, 800, 520ST, and a really strange one from Sears covering the 400 that seems to be for some kind of training. The front cover reads: NATIONAL | DIV. 3 Sears | SOURCE 637 COMPUTERS TRAINING | ATARI 79-03S-1 (That is suppose to be a framed square box on the left) I wonder what it means by "source 637"? It's definitely about the Atari 400 only. I would still like to get ones for the XL series, the other ST's and STe's, as well as the new Falcon. (I haven't really been looking that hard - I haven't finished my repair class yet) mhop@snip.net From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 12:23:55 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <19970316185450436.AAB121@computer-name> > The "TI-99/4A" was derived from the following: > > TI: Texas Instruments, of Course. > 99: A cute little number based on the "9900" microprocessor, > which the computer had as the CPU. This CPU was thought to be very powerfull for its time. Was it 16bit, while most of the others were 8bit? > 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? > A: The enhanced model of the "TI-99/4", which came out in 1981, > the 99/4 came out around 1978. Oh, I never knew there was a 99/4, I only heard of the 99/4A. Reminds me of when Atari enhanced their ST and came out with the STe. mhop@snip.net From BNICALEK at aol.com Sun Mar 16 13:06:31 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970316140626_1848371460@emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 14:02:04 EST, you write: << This CPU was thought to be very powerfull for its time. Was it 16bit, while most of the others were 8bit? >> Yes, the TI was the FIRST 16-Bit Computer ever manufactured. TI invented the integrated circuit, the microprocessor, and the microcomputer, altogether. Being first was their tradition. Who knows if it still is? The TI-99/4A beat IBM just before IBM's PC got popular. TI had a lot of marketing troubles throughout the 4+ years they tried to market their machine. This is why we're not running everything on a 64-bit TI machine! Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Mar 16 13:43:56 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> At 01:23 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >> 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? >If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? Ummm... If y'all don't mind the extra added crazyness, The TI-99/4 was *not* the first model! There was a TI-99/2! I do know that there were prototypes made of this machine, and I _believe_ it actually made it into limited production, but on that note I'm not really sure. I remember seeing a picture of one on the web.... I'll go back to lurking on this thread until I can find the exact reference again... might take me a while! Cya l8r, Roger "Merch" Merchberger Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Sun Mar 16 15:40:16 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <332e684b.6341475@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 14:43:56 -0500, you wrote: >At 01:23 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? >>If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? > >Ummm... If y'all don't mind the extra added crazyness, The TI-99/4 was >*not* the first model! There was a TI-99/2! > >I do know that there were prototypes made of this machine, and I _believe_ >it actually made it into limited production, but on that note I'm not >really sure. > Yes, there was a 99/2 but it came AFTER the 99/4! (Don't try to make sense of anything TI did related to computers) _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 16 16:03:17 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703141641.JAA17308@calico.litterbox.com>; from "Jim" at Mar 14, 97 9:41 am Message-ID: <199703162203.23929@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > Ooo.. "Peanut" (PCJr) keyboards. Anyone have a spare? to sell? anyone know if > the IR format is documented anywhere? (gleams of having one to talk to my > palmtop with in my eyes) I bought a PC-jr for \pounds 10.00 (about $15) at a radio rally (hamfest) last month. It was complete with the chicklet keyboard, but alas the transformer unit (mains in, 17V AC out) was missing. I 'phoned IBM, and amazingly the technical reference was still available, and cost \pounds 45-ish. So I ordered it. It's a very good manual, with schematics of the motherboard, RAM card, modem, disk controller, IR receiver, modem (the only option I don't have), printer port, ROM cartridge, PSU, CGA monitor, etc. There's also a commented source of the ROM BIOS, and (appropriate to the above question) the format of the IR keyboard data. The keyboard schematic is not in the manual, and nor is the source code for the 80C48 microcontroller in the keyboard. But it should be possible to use another IR transmitter with the PC-jr (or converserly to use the PC-jr keyboard with another machine). From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 16 16:14:16 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: ; from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 13, 97 4:37 pm Message-ID: <199703162214.24208@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Greetings fellow old-computer enthusiasts. A few words about my interests. I'm mostly interested in 1970's minicomputers and early workstations - the sort of machine where the CPU is built up from a few 10's (or a few hundred) TTL chips. It's great fun to hook a logic analyser to the output of the ALU and watch the data being processed. That's something you can't (easily) do with a microcomputer. And there's a certain joy to single-stepping the microcode on a PDP11/45 and figuring out just how it executes some instructions. I'd love a machine built from discrete transistors, but nobody's offered me one yet. I have a couple of programmable calculators with no chips in them, but no complete computers. I try to keep clear of the early 1980's micors that used some kind of custom gate array (often in the video side). It's impossible to get spares, so fixing them is something of a problem. I do have a number of micros of that period using standard TTL chips, though. I do have some of the machines with custom gate arrays (Oric, Atari 400, etc), but I don't depend on them Since somebody else mentioned the PC-jr, does anyone have a list of all the PC-family models that existed? So far I've obtained the original PC, PC/XT, PC/AT (both versions of the motherboard), XT model 286, PC-jr, Portable PC (the 'sewing machine' case), and parts of a PC 3270. I know I'm missing the convertable (? - laptop, I think), PC/370, AT/370, and I'm not including the PS/2 range (yet!). I try to keep my machines in working order - restoring them is most of the fun, actually. And I use them for real work - in fact I don't think I own a computer that would fit in on this list :-) Am I unusual in that I also collect schematics and Technical manuals? I find them as valuable as the machines, and buy all I can find. I own them for machines I don't yet own, and possibly never will own. But they're interesting to read none-the-less. Incidentally, I am looking for a (copy?) of the XT model 286 motherboard schematic - that's the only one of the original TechRefs that IBM can no longer supply, and I have all the others. -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From BigLouS at aol.com Sun Mar 16 17:03:32 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) Lou From BNICALEK at aol.com Sun Mar 16 17:12:53 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970316181252_247205039@emout02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 16:44:26 EST, you write: << Yes, there was a 99/2 but it came AFTER the 99/4! (Don't try to make sense of anything TI did related to computers) >> The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were ever made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS interface. The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen. And to make things even more "crazier", the TI-99/8 was trailed by the TI-99/2. The 99/8 was also pre-production units only, about 150 only were ever made. More information on the 99/8 is available on the TI web sites. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From george.lin at documentum.com Sun Mar 16 19:33:39 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970316173339.00c001b4@lion.documentum.com> At 06:03 PM 3/16/97 -0500, BigLouS@aol.com wrote: >BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) You don't need a boot disk to run a 1541. The 1541 is a "smart" floppy disk drive. It has a 6502 CPU and all necessary firmware built-in for standalone operation. It works off the serial interface. I have even connected a 1541 to my PC's serial port for transferring files to my C64. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From george.lin at documentum.com Sun Mar 16 19:33:23 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970316140626_1848371460@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970316173323.00c001b4@lion.documentum.com> At 02:06 PM 3/16/97 -0500, BNICALEK@aol.com wrote: >The TI-99/4A beat IBM just before IBM's PC got popular. TI had a lot of >marketing troubles throughout the 4+ years they tried to market their >machine. This is why we're not running everything on a 64-bit TI machine! I think another problem with TI 99/4A is that TI did not encourage 3rd party software development. TI sold the machines at a loss in order to compete with the cheap 8-bit Ataris and Commodores. Naturally, TI wanted to recoup the money with high margin software sales. However, TI didn't understand that hardware success is intimately connected to software availability. TI software development efforts alone could never achieve the critical mass necessary to spark wide interest in, otherwise, an excellent machine. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From scott at cprompt.sk.ca Sun Mar 16 20:41:39 1997 From: scott at cprompt.sk.ca (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <199703170239.UAA28676@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca> > At 02:06 PM 3/16/97 -0500, BNICALEK@aol.com wrote: > I think another problem with TI 99/4A is that TI did not encourage 3rd > party software development. TI sold the machines at a loss in order to In fact, if I'm not mistaken, all machine language development for the TI 99/4(a) had to be done on one of TI's big expensive machines for the first (couple?) years. (ie, assembler was not available on the TI 99/4A.) At one time, I found an excellent history of TI's computer attempts on the web, but I can't seem to find it now. ttfn srw ------------------------------------------------------------ Walde Techonology http://scott.cprompt.sk.ca Box 7284 finger: scott@cprompt.sk.ca Saskatoon, SK S7K 4J2 email: scott@cprompt.sk.ca CANADA email: walde@dlcwest.com -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s:+>: a- C++++$ UL++++$ !P L++ E- W+++$ N+ o? K? w$ O- M-- V PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP->++ t+ 5 X+ !R tv- b+ DI++++ D+ G e* h r++ y- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Sun Mar 16 21:01:22 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: People usually keep the disks and reformat them to be used on the newer system. In the cases of those upgrading to 3.5" from 5.25", the disks usually get thrown out and the computer stuck in a closet. When the computer is later sold, there is no software left to go with. You don't need a boot disk for a C64; its OS is right in ROM. To run the first program on a disk, press the RUN-STOP key and the C= key at the same time. To run another program on the disk, move the cursor to that program (PRG file) and type RUN in front of the name of the file. Delete any numbers or characters not in the name of the file and put ,8,1 or just ,8 (in some instances) after the filename and press Return. The program will run. Tony ------------------------ On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. > > BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) > > Lou > From mhop at snip.net Sun Mar 16 20:39:56 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <19970317030737721.AAA156@computer-name> > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. Some people throw it out. They develop bad sectors. The kids use the disks for frizzbees. They can't upload the game disks because the disks are copy protected. If the protection is broken, questions of legality arise as to who owns the copywrite, then they still don't get uploaded. Disk librarians try to keep as many disks as space allows, but disks develop bad sectors over the years when they are not accessed regularly. These are some of the reasons.. mhop@snip.net From BNICALEK at aol.com Sun Mar 16 21:13:06 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970316220959_1150471781@emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 21:45:29 EST, you write: << In fact, if I'm not mistaken, all machine language development for the TI 99/4(a) had to be done on one of TI's big expensive machines for the first (couple?) years. (ie, assembler was not available on the TI 99/4A.) At one time, I found an excellent history of TI's computer attempts on the web, but I can't seem to find it now. >> You may be referring to the "TI Home Computer Guideline", by Bill Gaskill. It's on the web in several TI sites (i.e., Polivka, & others)... TI did write literally all of the code of a "big expensive machine" for its 99/4 and /4A programs, except one and only - the Hopper game. Hopper was TI's first and only entertainment game written on the TI for the TI. Bryan From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Sun Mar 16 21:31:42 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? (fwd) Message-ID: Following up to my own message; I don't know where my brain is tonight :-) You have to LOAD the program not RUN with the instructions below for running a single file. Then type RUN. I'm so used to the FastLoad cartridge. :-) Tony ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 23:01:22 -0400 From: Tony Cianfaglione To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Where does the software go? People usually keep the disks and reformat them to be used on the newer system. In the cases of those upgrading to 3.5" from 5.25", the disks usually get thrown out and the computer stuck in a closet. When the computer is later sold, there is no software left to go with. You don't need a boot disk for a C64; its OS is right in ROM. To run the first program on a disk, press the RUN-STOP key and the C= key at the same time. To run another program on the disk, move the cursor to that program (PRG file) and type RUN in front of the name of the file. Delete ^^^ type LOAD not RUN here. any numbers or characters not in the name of the file and put ,8,1 or just ,8 (in some instances) after the filename and press Return. The program will run. Tony ------------------------ On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. > > BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) > > Lou > From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 16 22:43:20 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? References: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <332CCBE8.9EA@goldrush.com> BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I understand that someone who is > just upgrading from a 8088 to a pentium will keep his software but what about > Atari's, Applle II's and Commodore 64's? Why keep the software if you are > getting rid of the hardware? Can anybody explain this to me? This came to > mind again because I just picked up a C64 at a thrift shop with a 1541 and a > BusLogic card (??) but there was nary a disk or cartridge. > > BTW, can anybody tell me where I can get a boot disk for the C64?:-) > > Lou I think sometimes the disks get relabeled and reused on the owner's new machines. It also may depend on the thrift store, disk software and program manuals may mean nothing to a thrift store employee, sometimes I've seen a batch of disks in a package in one part of the store, manuals for them in another and the computer components and cables priced seprate in other locations. Sometimes I only see hardware and no software (they may just toss the disks). I'm getting pretty good at Thrift shopping, if I see one piece of equipment or peripheral that remotely relates to my collection, I will scour the store. Example: I see a PET computer or drive or printer - first a quick check for computers, drives, printers, then IEEE-488 cables and interfaces, PET books, disks, and very important - don't forget datasette tapes (One day I'll find the mother lode of Cursor Magazine tapes!) Don't forget the ribbons, some of those printer ribbons are hard to find - or expensive as heck. I have a good idea of what I have and am looking for, I know the ports and video standards of my machines and pretty well what stuff is/was available for them. Be prepared! The 64 never needed a boot disk. Though there was the 1541 test/demo usually packed with the drive. And then later on the 64 did have a 'new' disk based OS, GEOS. My wife another collector of things (other then computers) also is an advocate to act as ignorant as you can when buying a real find, If you see an MITS Altair, don't go and snatch it up and rush for the register, pick it up and look at it scratch your head, wander around a bit carrying it (check out the other computers or whatever against it), and don't act as if is the 'holy grail' of your collection that it really is. (this is VERYimportant at flea markets where prices aren't on the stuff.) Another idea is to say something like 'what is it?' or 'can I hook this up to my 386?', 'can it run Lotus?' 'can this get me on the information-highway?' to prove that you know little about computers and also hopefully devalue it when he/she says 'no' or 'I don't know' (this may backfire if they think you are a real rube and try to play on your ignorance.) Make a real-low offer and say you'll take your chances. If they are somewhat sales-savvy you may have haggle up to a still low price. :-) Larry Anderson From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 17 04:34:14 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970316181252_247205039@emout02.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 BNICALEK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-03-16 16:44:26 EST, you write: > > << Yes, there was a 99/2 but it came AFTER the 99/4! (Don't try to make > sense of anything TI did related to computers) > >> > > The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were ever > made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of > peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS interface. > The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very > portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen. Actually, if you can find the May 1983 issue of Popular Science, there's a two-page ad for the 99/2 inside the front cover. The first of these pages is a photograph of Bill Cosby holding the 99/2 in front of him. The advertising text starts with "Under $100. Meet the lowest priced, 16-bit computer available." The machine was supposed to come with 4K, had a 48-key keyboard, and had a "Quality, flicker-free black and white display". One of these days I'll have the guts to cut up some magazines and have some of these cool old ads laminated. Too bad I have so little wall space. +--Fan of The Prisoner & Babylon 5--Citizen of the Republic of Baie d'Urfé--+ |Doug Spence // A1200 This space unintentionally | |ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca \X/ A1000 left blank | +--Beginning Microcomputer Collector----------PowerMonger Territories: 112--+ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Mar 17 05:03:35 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Montreal collectors? Message-ID: Greetings, everyone! I'm wondering if there are any other computer collectors from the Montreal region out there? The reason I ask is that I've never actually met anyone else with these interests around here, and it would be fun (and probably educational, too :) ) to get together with some other people who fill all their closet space with old computer junk. Also, it'd be nice to find some better computer hunting grounds, if anyone is willing to give such information away. My usual haunt has become unbelievably dry in the past few months (though I did find a functional but damaged Kaypro II last week), and living way out here in the West Island, with no car, I'm not that able to spook around downtown as much as I'd like. (And BTW, anyone else had the misfortune of having to carry something like the Kaypro home via public transit at rush hour? The machine got a lot of interested stares, but boy did my arms hurt when I got home!) Anyway, a big "Hello" to everyone on the list. +--Fan of The Prisoner & Babylon 5--Citizen of the Republic of Baie d'Urfé--+ |Doug Spence // A1200 This space unintentionally | |ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca \X/ A1000 left blank | +--Beginning Microcomputer Collector----------PowerMonger Territories: 112--+ From BigLouS at aol.com Mon Mar 17 08:50:16 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Montreal collectors? Message-ID: <970317095015_-1036476704@emout13.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 06:07:12 EST, you write: > (And BTW, anyone else had the misfortune of having to carry something > like the Kaypro home via public transit at rush hour? The machine got a > lot of interested stares, but boy did my arms hurt when I got home!) Yes, except I used a luggage cart (I'm not as strong as I used to be) . Strange thing was that no one seemed to notice. Lou From ekman at lysator.liu.se Mon Mar 17 09:11:22 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <970316180329_687328530@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: > I have always wondered what happens to the software that was used on the > computers that show up at thrift stores. I was given a VIC-20 by a friend some time ago. Naturally, there was no software with it. A few days later I visited a thrift shop and passed a rack of old cassette tapes, going for SEK 2 (about $ 0.25) each. I looked at them for a few seconds, decided that there was nothing worth having but just as I was turning away something caught my eye. I looked again and there, amongst heaps of 70's and 80's pop stars, were three original VIC-20 games. A closer look also revelaed some pirated C64 games. I dunno, but maybe this is what happens to a lot of cassettes: They get bundled with music cassettes and are either thrown out or put on sale separately from the computers. /F From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 17 09:42:34 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <332CCBE8.9EA@goldrush.com> from "Larry Anderson & Diane Hare" at Mar 16, 97 08:43:20 pm Message-ID: <199703171542.KAA13551@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Larry Anderson & Diane Hare once stated: > > My wife another collector of things (other then computers) also is an > advocate to act as ignorant as you can when buying a real find, If you > see an MITS Altair, don't go and snatch it up and rush for the register, > pick it up and look at it scratch your head, wander around a bit > carrying it (check out the other computers or whatever against it), and > don't act as if is the 'holy grail' of your collection that it really > is. (this is VERYimportant at flea markets where prices aren't on the > stuff.) I attended a very disapointed auction this Saturday. Disapointing not because of the selection (hundreds of computers) but because of the way it was held and because of Bidder #431 (and his partner, #51), who ended up with the majority of the auction. The auction was held at FAU (Florida Atlantic University) in Boca Raton (right across the street from IBM - lots of PCs available). Unfortunately, you had computers in one section, monitors in another, and keyboards in a third. There were complete systems, but they were in the minority than majority. Dozens of Apple ][s, about four Apple ][c (only two ][c monitors, #431 got ALL the Apples), possibly three or four dozen Macs (mostly SEs and Classics) and almost 20 HP workstations (what I was after). Several large VAXen and an IBM Series 1. Of course, I didn't get the HPs, as #431 (and his partner) got them. I seriously doubt that he even knew (not that he cared really - he seems overly bored by the whole auction) what he got - proprietary hardware that really only runs Unix (not that they would even boot - the system disks were wiped before the CSE [1] department had them carted off), their monitors, which are large fixed frequency and only usable on the HPs, and their keyboards. When asked about them, they both said not to talk to them that day, but call them later, when they figure out what they have (and charge an arm and a leg for them no doubt). Okay, so I'm bitter 8-/ I may have also damaged my chances at buying the stuff from him cheaply as I went as high as $200 for the HP units (the computers themselves, not including the monitors (sold in a different lot) and keyboards (another lot, mixed in with keyboards from PCs, Mac, terminals and whatnot). Sigh. Be wary of auctions. > Another idea is to say something like 'what is it?' or 'can I hook > this up to my 386?', 'can it run Lotus?' 'can this get me on the > information-highway?' to prove that you know little about computers and > also hopefully devalue it when he/she says 'no' or 'I don't know' (this > may backfire if they think you are a real rube and try to play on your > ignorance.) Make a real-low offer and say you'll take your chances. If > they are somewhat sales-savvy you may have haggle up to a still low > price. :-) I did get a Digital VT320 (or VT330) terminal from one guy (the keyboard was in another lot - that guy gave me the keyboard!). I told him I was interested in the terminal, I'll give you $15. He said $20. I told him there wasn't a keyboard with it. He said pick a keyboard and take the terminal for $20. So I got two VT320 keyboards (from the other guy) for free, one IBM PC keyboard (the only maker of decent keyboards IMHO) and a terminal for $20. I also bought another IBM PCAT keyboard for $5. From another guy I got (for $20): Wyse terminal (sans keyboard) IBM PC (original) IBM PCXT (original) 2 286 clones (one with a general purpose I/O board!) 386 clone (Zenith - with a strange controller card) IBM EGA monitor 7 Mono/CGA monitors, some from IBM All seem in working order (haven't actually tested them yet, but the PCs look fine). The keyboards, the terminals, the EGA monitor and the 386 I'm keeping, but if anyone is interested in the other equipment, I'll be willing to sell them (like I need another 8 monitors 8-) -spc (I'm calling #431 later today about the HPs ... ) [1] Computer Science and Engineering From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 17 09:52:12 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703162214.24208@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> from "A.R. Duell" at Mar 16, 97 10:14:16 pm Message-ID: <199703171552.KAA13609@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great A.R. Duell once stated: > > Greetings fellow old-computer enthusiasts. > > Since somebody else mentioned the PC-jr, does anyone have a list of all > the PC-family models that existed? So far I've obtained the original PC, > PC/XT, PC/AT (both versions of the motherboard), XT model 286, PC-jr, > Portable PC (the 'sewing machine' case), and parts of a PC 3270. I know > I'm missing the convertable (? - laptop, I think), PC/370, AT/370, and I'm > not including the PS/2 range (yet!). Don't forget about the PC RT machines, the first RISC based machines. Not a bad machine, but in a strange twist of logic, it's the only IBM PC to have a reset button - running an OS that needs to be shut down (Unix) else you'll currupt the filesystem! And yes, the IBM convertable was a lap top computer. Not a bad machine at all. A friend of mine had one (his father worked at IBM Boca Raton - home of the IBM PC). > I try to keep my machines in working order - restoring them is most of the > fun, actually. And I use them for real work - in fact I don't think I own > a computer that would fit in on this list :-) Well, I've used the the Tandy 6000 I have for working out a budget (since it comes with Multiplan). > Am I unusual in that I also collect schematics and Technical manuals? I > find them as valuable as the machines, and buy all I can find. No, I try to do the same thing. I also try to learn the assembly language for each computer as well (let's see - I know 6809, 68000, 80x88, VAX, MIPS, and I can follow 8080/Z80 and 6502). I currently own the tech manuals for most of my machines. -spc (Have computer, will program) From kevan at motiv.co.uk Mon Mar 17 09:53:06 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <332e684b.6341475@smtp.ix.netcom.com> References: <3.0.32.19970316144354.00925710@mail.northernway.net> <332e684b.6341475@smtp.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199703171553.PAA22947@cream.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this URL: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-ti.html I have been searching for information about this machine for some time. I would like to know if it was a production version or some sort of custom job. Regards -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 17 10:17:48 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Hello! In-Reply-To: <199703171552.KAA13609@armigeron.com>; from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 17, 97 10:52 am Message-ID: <199703171617.21232@tw200.eng.cam.ac.uk> [IBM PC family] > Don't forget about the PC RT machines, the first RISC based machines. Not Err, that depends on how you define RISC :-). I thought there were some machines built from lots of small chips that would now be classed as RISC. When did the PC RT's come out? I know it was arround the time of the ARM (originally Acorn RISC Machine), but I'm not sure which was actually first. [...] > Well, I've used the the Tandy 6000 I have for working out a budget (since > it comes with Multiplan). That reminds me. I was given a Facit hand-cranked mechanical calculator a few weeks ago. The chairman of an (electronic) calculator club had been given 2 of them, so he passed one on to me ;-). It's in beautiful condition, and works fine. I must use it next time I have a bill to add up :-)... > > > Am I unusual in that I also collect schematics and Technical manuals? I > > find them as valuable as the machines, and buy all I can find. > > No, I try to do the same thing. I also try to learn the assembly language > for each computer as well (let's see - I know 6809, 68000, 80x88, VAX, MIPS, So do I. Lets see : 68000 (a bit), 6502, Z80, 8080, 8085, 8048, PIC16Cxx, PDP11, PDP8 (a bit), 6809, SC/MP, PERQ microcode, Saturn (HP's calculator processor), 80x86, etc... > -spc (Have computer, will program) -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From HamiJohn at aol.com Mon Mar 17 10:45:43 1997 From: HamiJohn at aol.com (HamiJohn@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317114542_1483792969@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 18:18:32 EST, Bryan Nicalek writes: > The TI-99/2 was never actually produced. Only pre-production units were ever > made. This was after the TI-99/4A, back in 1983. A whole line of > peripherals were planned to be offered, including the new HEX-BUS interface. > The 99/2 was black and white only, 40 columns, and limited but a very > portable computer. Only rare photos have ever been seen. The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from TI). John Hamilton hamijohn@aol.com "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" From HamiJohn at aol.com Mon Mar 17 10:45:56 1997 From: HamiJohn at aol.com (HamiJohn@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317114532_852897225@emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-16 14:37:42 EST, Roger Merchberger writes: > At 01:23 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> 4: TI's first model computer - #4 - sounds cool, heh? >> If it was their first, why #4? What happened to 1-3? > Ummm... If y'all don't mind the extra added crazyness, The TI-99/4 was > *not* the first model! There was a TI-99/2! The 99/4 & 99/4A were the first computers from TI. The 99/2 came out as a low end ($100) computer to compete with the Vic 20. There was a 99/8 planned (less than a 100 were built - a high end home machine) that never made it to the stores. Commodore's price wars (and TI's arrogance) killed the 99 line. Kind of ironic since it was TI that nearly killed Commodore years before in the calculator market! John Hamilton hamijohn@aol.com "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 13:23:21 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317142317_544816821@emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 05:36:45 EST, you write: << Actually, if you can find the May 1983 issue of Popular Science, there's a two-page ad for the 99/2 inside the front cover. The first of these pages is a photograph of Bill Cosby holding the 99/2 in front of him. The advertising text starts with "Under $100. Meet the lowest priced, 16-bit computer available." The machine was supposed to come with 4K, had a 48-key keyboard, and had a "Quality, flicker-free black and white display". One of these days I'll have the guts to cut up some magazines and have some of these cool old ads laminated. Too bad I have so little wall space. >> I'm going to research that Popular Science ad on a microfiche at our local library! Funny how TI can advertise and not actually get the product out there! Bryan bnicalek@aol.com From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 13:34:03 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317142757_-1672909509@emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 11:52:10 EST, you write: << The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from TI). >> Interesting, I thought it never did. But, they were extremely rare to find. Bryan bnicalek@aol.com From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Mar 17 12:46:02 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Apple Mac 128 Message-ID: <332D916A.610A@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, I just picked up a Mac 128 on Sunday. With an Imagewriter I, external drive, carrying case and manuals, etc. Had the manuals and the original Macwrite/Macpaint disks & manuals. Anybody know what the going price for one of these might be? I'd like to keep it but being a student forces me to sell off the valuable stuff and keep the cheapies. In other words, I need the money. I've seen 512's listed on auctionweb go for $60 and up but 128's are few and far between. None listed in Dejanews either. Any comments appreciated. I will probably put it in the auction in a few weeks, once I play with it a little. -- ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 17 13:45:53 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report Message-ID: Hit a couple of thrift stores this weekend. Here's the stuff I didn't pick up - if anyone wants any of it let me know and we can arrange something. 2 Commodore 64's (9.99 US$/ea) 1 Blue Chip 5.25" Disk Drive (7.99) ^Can anyone tell me what this is? 1 Apple 2c (9.99) 2 IBM PC's (19.95) 1 Commodore Cassete Drive (7.99) As for stuff I did pick up: 1 TI99/4A with no stuff - just the basic unit. I've never had a TI99/4A before so this should be fun. My main question is - what is the input voltage? I'm going to need to mod a power supply to it before I can get anywhere with it. Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics (Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. It has small blue rubber keys and a template with basic commands written all over it. It's about 30cm x 18cm x 4cm. On the back there are three ports labelled Print, Cass, and TV. It has a big cartridge slot (but came with no cartridge :(. I cracked it open to see what's on the board but it has a big shielding cage soldered all the way around the board edge and I just didn't have the time to tackle that. Plugged it in and attached it to a composite monitor but got nothing. The power light did come on. I'm guessing it probably doesn't operate without a cartridge. Any info on the thing would be much appreciated. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 13:59:39 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number Message-ID: <970317142552_1083467704@emout08.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 10:57:55 EST, you write: << Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this URL: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-ti.html I have been searching for information about this machine for some time. I would like to know if it was a production version or some sort of custom job. Regards -- Kevan Kevan, If there is a serial number such as this, it was probably a limited-edition production version. I wouldn't envision it as a custom job. In fact it is probably worth lots of money, because it's the only one I've seen in my lifetime! Bryan bnicalek@aol.com From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 17 14:01:59 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: ; from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 17, 97 11:45 am Message-ID: <199703172001.9575@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics > (Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. I've heard of a thing called a Mattel Aquarius (or is it Matel?). This was a cheap (< \pounds 100.00) UK home computer sold in the early-mid 1980's. It had a blue rubber keyboard, and sounds something like your unit. I think it was Z80-based, probably with ROM basic. > It has small blue rubber keys and a template with basic commands > written all over it. It's about 30cm x 18cm x 4cm. On the back > there are three ports labelled Print, Cass, and TV. It has a big > cartridge slot (but came with no cartridge :(. I cracked it open > to see what's on the board but it has a big shielding cage soldered > all the way around the board edge and I just didn't have the time > to tackle that. Plugged it in and attached it to a composite > monitor but got nothing. The power light did come on. I'm guessing It may well be a TV RF output. I _think_ the UK version had a built-in UHF modulator for our channel 36, so I guess the US version outputs on your channel 3 or 4. Try connecting it to the aerial (antenna?) input of the TV and seeing what happens. > it probably doesn't operate without a cartridge. Any info on the > thing would be much appreciated. I thought it had a built-in ROM basic... > Bill Whitson -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 17 15:18:16 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: <199703172001.9575@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: > > Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics > > (Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. > > I've heard of a thing called a Mattel Aquarius (or is it Matel?). This was > a cheap (< \pounds 100.00) UK home computer sold in the early-mid 1980's. > It had a blue rubber keyboard, and sounds something like your unit. Yep- that's it. Once I knew it was a Mattel I was able to find a picture on the web. > It may well be a TV RF output. I _think_ the UK version had a built-in UHF > modulator for our channel 36, so I guess the US version outputs on your > channel 3 or 4. Try connecting it to the aerial (antenna?) input of the TV > and seeing what happens. If only I had a TV :). I guess I'm going to need to get one. > I thought it had a built-in ROM basic... I hope so. I really don't feel like I own a computer until I've written a BASIC program on it! Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 17 15:23:11 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: ; from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 17, 97 1:18 pm Message-ID: <199703172123.13409@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > It may well be a TV RF output. I _think_ the UK version had a built-in UHF > > modulator for our channel 36, so I guess the US version outputs on your > > channel 3 or 4. Try connecting it to the aerial (antenna?) input of the TV > > and seeing what happens. > > If only I had a TV :). I guess I'm going to need to get one. If you can remove that darn screening cover, you might find a composite video input on the modulator. Tap the signal off there and feed it to the monitor. > > > I thought it had a built-in ROM basic... > > I hope so. I really don't feel like I own a computer until I've > written a BASIC program on it! Please delete 'BASIC' from that :-). I'll agree you should have written at least one program for every machine you own, but a lot of my machines don't have BASIC interpretters available... > Bill Whitson -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From gram at cnct.com Mon Mar 17 16:02:52 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: The Ultimate Classic Micro Message-ID: I saw this in comp.sys.tandy a few months back. I do not know the disposition of the system. I would love to have it myself, but it will be years before I could get the resources to properly open a facility such as it deserves. The Boston Computer Museum has no sense of _real_ history, IMAO. I did several of the mods Dennis described, both those for the TRS-80 Model One and for the Color Computer. Ward Griffiths ***** BEGIN INCLUDED TEXT ***** > Subject: Good Home For Custom TRS-80? > From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz > Date: 1996/11/17 > Message-Id: <328F9226.58D1@maltedmedia.com> > Newsgroups: comp.sys.tandy > > Hi, > > I am looking for a good home for the original *Custom TRS-80* ... my > model I about which the book was written 15 years ago. The Boston > Computer Museum isn't interested ... TRS-80s don't number among their > favorites, I was led to believe ... but I certainly would like to see it > in a public location with all its parts and modifications available, > plus copies of the books, disks, etc., original manuscripts and > programs, peripherals (speech synethesizer, expansion goodies) etc., > etc., and an LNW-80 clone! If the site was a really good one, I'd throw > in the CoCos and all their original mods, circuit card schematics, > negatives, and so on. > > Does anyone know where a good home might be found for this (other than > mine)? Please feel free to forward this post to anyone who might have an > idea ... I've kept all this stuff together, but am beginning to tire of > the fact that no one can see it. Those of you who recall the book and my > magazine columns can imagine what an odd collection it is! > > Best, > Dennis ***** END INCLUDED TEXT ***** From BigLouS at aol.com Mon Mar 17 17:19:20 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report Message-ID: <970317170224_-1371535880@emout07.mail.aol.com> I'd like the 2C if its not too much trouble. Regards, Lou Sommo From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 02:34:21 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 17-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >You don't need a boot disk to run a 1541. The 1541 is a "smart" floppy >disk drive. It has a 6502 CPU and all necessary firmware built-in for >standalone operation. It works off the serial interface. I have even >connected a 1541 to my PC's serial port for transferring files to my C64. George, That's interesting....how did you get the PC to actually handle the transfer to the floppy drive? What did you do in modifying a cable for the connection? It certainly would come in handy when one is FTPing programs off of the net and wants to transfer them to the C= 8bit machines! Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 02:20:33 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 18-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >Also an Aquarius Personal Computer Model 5931R from Radofin Electronics >(Far East) Ltd. Has anybody ever heard of this thing? I sure haven't. >It has small blue rubber keys and a template with basic commands >written all over it. It's about 30cm x 18cm x 4cm. On the back >there are three ports labelled Print, Cass, and TV. It has a big >cartridge slot (but came with no cartridge :(. I cracked it open >to see what's on the board but it has a big shielding cage soldered >all the way around the board edge and I just didn't have the time >to tackle that. Plugged it in and attached it to a composite >monitor but got nothing. The power light did come on. I'm guessing >it probably doesn't operate without a cartridge. Any info on the >thing would be much appreciated. Bill, It is a Mattel Aquarius, which was always produced by Radofin Elec. It boots into a subset of BASIC and plugs directly to a TV, generally through one of the game switch boxes most people used so they could switch between the input for the game and that of the antenna. Related to this, a company called 'The Aquarius Group', parent company Bentley Electronics out of Los Angeles, CA, marketed quite a few things for this little system. A thermal printer, data recorder, 16k and 32k RAM cartridges, and a miniexpander to allow you to have multiple cartridge ports, since both memory and software cartridges used this port. From the looks of thier little brochure, which is the only documentation I have with mine, it looks like most of thier software was written in LOGO, though there was an extended Basic available as well. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From george.lin at documentum.com Mon Mar 17 19:48:39 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970317174839.00f815e4@lion.documentum.com> At 01:34 PM 3/17/97 +0500, you wrote: >George, > > That's interesting....how did you get the PC to actually handle the >transfer to the floppy drive? What did you do in modifying a cable for the >connection? It certainly would come in handy when one is FTPing programs off >of the net and wants to transfer them to the C= 8bit machines! Jeff, I think a lot of us collect old machines not for the sake of collecting them but for the sake of actually running them. For me, running the old software and reading the old manuals let me relive my childhood days--the closest thing to riding in a time machine. However, you just don't find old software in thrift stores. But as you know, the net has an abundant supply of old software. How do you transfer them to your old machines? The method and utility software varies with different systems. For C64, I use an excellent utility called Star Commander by Joe Forster. You can download it at this URL: ftp://ftp.seattlelab.com/UTILS/sc073.zip Star Commander runs on your PC. You need a custom made cable to connect the 1541 to your PC's serial port. Star Commander's help file has the information on how to make the cable yourself. Once everything is connected and Star Commander is properly configured, you will see your PC's hard disk on one side and the 1541 directory listing on the other. You can copy or move files back and forth. It works just like Norton Commander. You can even format a C64 disk in the 1541! Star Commander can also create a real C64 disk from the tons of C64 disk images on the net. Disk images are primarily useful for people who play with computer emulators. But with the help of Star Commander, we can take advantage of them too. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Mon Mar 17 20:02:04 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <199703171553.PAA22947@cream.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be > confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" > > I have been searching for information about this machine for some time. > I would like to know if it was a production version or some sort of > custom job. I've never seen a beige case TI99/4A. All of the ones I have ever seen are silver. Tony From BNICALEK at aol.com Mon Mar 17 22:41:00 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Weekend report / Thrift stores Message-ID: <970317233913_1384942994@emout01.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-17 14:50:15 EST, you write: << 1 TI99/4A with no stuff - just the basic unit. I've never had a TI99/4A before so this should be fun. My main question is - what is the input voltage? I'm going to need to mod a power supply to it before I can get anywhere with it. >> Bill, Your best bet is to pick up a genuine TI transformer yourself. However, quoted from the TI transformer itself: INPUT: 120VAC 60HZ 40W OUTPUT: PINS 1,2: 18VAC, 18VA PINS 2,4: 8.5VAC, 1.28VA Hope this helps - by the way, did you get a beige or silver unit, and how much did you pay for it? Also, where are good thrift places to hit (other than Salvation Army), where you can go and pick up used computer stuff? Bryan bnicalek@aol.com or reply direct to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Mar 17 22:49:14 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970317174839.00f815e4@lion.documentum.com> Message-ID: One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] Enjoy! From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Mon Mar 17 22:52:40 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: A1000 keyboards [again] Message-ID: Sorry to bug you guys again but after I post the original message, the system I use for E-mail crashed big-time and consequently, all my mail [40+ messages] from that day or so was lost. I know a few of you replied to the question and I would *really* appreciate it if you guys could kindly repost your replies, either personally to me or back on the mailing list. Thanks! Les From idavis at comland.com Mon Mar 17 22:02:30 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Atari Eprom Prgramming Message-ID: <199703180507.XAA23295@ds9.comland.com> Well, I borrowed an eprom burner from a friend and pulled apart some of my cartridges to see if I could copy one. I picked Atariwriter. Here's where the confusion comes in. I am not sure what kind of eprom the cartridge contains, so I read the left chip as a 2532, and as a 2732. I got two different sets of data. I pulled them both into a hex editor, hoping for a clue as to which on was the correct one, and they both had legible text that I could recognize from the cartridge. How in the heck can I tell which kind they are, or if I am even getting close. I copied both chips as 2732's and 2532's and made a set of 2732's with both sets of data, plugged them into the original board, and nothing. This is really frustrating. I am hoping that some one has done this at least once. This is my first time to use an eprom burner, and I don't have a clue, except what I have read, and divined from the eprom burner program. I don't want to sound desperate, but I am either barking up the wrong tree, or i'm in the wrong forest. Thanks for any help, and all of the help I have received so far. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca Tue Mar 18 07:55:40 1997 From: ab616 at chebucto.ns.ca (Tony Cianfaglione) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is Little Red Reader a PC program or a CBM program? Do you run it on a PC and do all of the conversion there or on a C64? Tony ------------------------ On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: > > One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] > is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little > Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC > then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a > shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from > PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about > it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the > usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] > Enjoy! > > From CHEER at us.oracle.com Tue Mar 18 11:08:20 1997 From: CHEER at us.oracle.com (Christopher Heer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <199703181423.GAA28850@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> "Mr. Self Destruct" says: >One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] >is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little >Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC >then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a >shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from >PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about >it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the >usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] Waitaminute. Are you saying you can get a single-sided 1541 drive to read a PC- formatted disk? I'm impressed. Do you need to do anything special (like, say, format the disk single-sided)? -- Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 Fax: (312) 726-4635 Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas From idavis at comland.com Tue Mar 18 09:52:51 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Just browsing around Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970318155251.008ec7c0@mail.comland.com > I was just browsing around the web this morning, and I saw this on the Auction Web. DWP 410 daisy wheel printer, paralell interface for the TRS80. http://www.ebay.com/aw/item.cgi?item=oqb951 Seller's email: jruffco@adams.net I know that some of you collect TRS models, and this item hadn't been bid on, and the first bid was to start at $1.00. Also, the bidding ends today, so I thought I would put this out in case anyone is interested. You can occasionally find some good stuff on the auction web, but of course there's always that yahoo out there with $1 more than you. Hope this helps someone. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From groberts at mitre.org Tue Mar 18 10:07:56 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970318100301.00704ee8@postman> my undertanding is that these software-based solutions work only with the newer 1571's. the 1541 is hardware incompatible with normal PC floppys. This issue and hardware solutions (e.g. cables for hooking the 1541 to a PC) is all described nicely in the comp.sys.cbm news group and FAQ and more detailed questions are best fielded there. - glenn At 09:08 AM 3/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >"Mr. Self Destruct" says: > >>One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] >>is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little >>Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC >>then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a >>shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from >>PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about >>it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the >>usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] > >Waitaminute. > >Are you saying you can get a single-sided 1541 drive to read a PC- >formatted disk? I'm impressed. > >Do you need to do anything special (like, say, format the disk >single-sided)? >-- > Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation > Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 > Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 > Fax: (312) 726-4635 > Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas > > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From HamiJohn at aol.com Tue Mar 18 11:45:34 1997 From: HamiJohn at aol.com (HamiJohn@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:26:59 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <970318124525_-1773162331@emout19.mail.aol.com> In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane over and over again! I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as: Name/Model Manufacturer Date released/stopped RAM/ROM included Languages included Ports included Peripherals offerred etc. Of course the exact categories need to be decided by discussion on this mail list. And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly). Finally, an "expert" committee for those items "in dispute"! Well ... what do you think? John Hamilton hamijohn@aol.com "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" From MTapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 18 00:31:30 1997 From: MTapley at swri.edu (MTapley@swri.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: John, Sounds like fun! I'd like to see a bit more comprehensive listing - each category may not need to be filled in for every computer, but if you start by defining a comprehensive list at the outset, at least all the entries will end up consistent. I'd like to see a list comprehensive enough that I can take it to a garage sale and know how I can use the box I find there. Also, remember that as time moves on, more and more capable machines will become "classic". My NeXT will be right in there in 4 more years or so.... :-) Things I'd like to add to the list in any case: Output device/resolution CPU type/speed Mass Storage (floppies, tapes, hard drives) Operating System(s) Things that may or may not belong on the list: Important Available Software (word proc, telecom, spreadsheet, etc.) Known Current Vendors/supporters Benchmark speed (a la Byte Magazine's Seive Benchmark) Neat things to be able to do with the list (or database): Sort by OS Sort by CPU Sort by date available Sort by Manufacturer Sort by Model Name A sample (not necessarily complete or correct) listing for my classic: Name/Model Rainbow 100A/B/+ Manufacturer Digital Equipment Corporation Date released/stopped 1983(?)-1986(?) CPU Z-80/4 MHz + 8088/4.8 (?) MHz RAM/ROM included 128k/32k(?) (RAM up to 832k (100A) or 896k (100B)) Output Device VR-201 (mono) or VR-241 (color) monitor; avail. graphics to 792 x 240 x 8 bits (?) Ports included 2*RS-232 (printer, modem); video/keyboard Mass Storage 2 or 4 * 400k 5.25" floppy; avail. MFM Hard Disk < 80M Peripherals offerred LA-50, LA-100 Printers Modem (any RS-232) ... Operating System CP/M-80; CP/M-86/80; MS-DOS 2.0, 2.11, 3.10b; VENIX(?) Languages included none (avail. Basic, C, Pascal, ...) (need versions) Important Software Kermit; Lotus 1-2-3; WordPerfect; WordStar (need vsn. numbers) Benchmark Speed ? Known Current Support ? >And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly). Not me. But I hope somebody can! - Mark From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 14:38:32 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <970318124525_-1773162331@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 HamiJohn@aol.com wrote: > In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane > over and over again! Yeah, this is a lot of fun, and I'm surprised with the amount of traffic. > I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic > computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as: > > Name/Model > Manufacturer > Date released/stopped > RAM/ROM included > Languages included > Ports included > Peripherals offerred > etc. Actually, I started something like this on my own two or three years ago, using a format I found in an old Computing Now! magazine from 1983 that had a (VERY basic) roundup of ... 40 systems or so? (I can't verify this as I'm sitting at a terminal in the university, not at home with all my stuff.) I started collecting info on any machine I could get info about, and I was putting it all into an AmigaGuide document. It was sorted by company and sometimes by series as well. Unfortunately, there was tons of unverifiable data in this list and I never got around to entering a lot of the stuff I *could* verify. I also wanted to collect pictures of the systems and link them in, but I don't have a scanner and its hard to find pictures of a lot of these things. I haven't touched that list in ages. I'm not even sure where I stored it now. :) I ran out of time for this kind of thing, and after a while I realized that I could get a lot of the info I was typing in off the net (for the more common systems) and basically gave up. If I were doing it now, I think I'd just grab peoples' web pages and link them together into a huge local document. Probably eat up a good portion of a zip disk. I was typing up reviews from magazines, too. I tried to list my sources so that I could go back later to see where the wrong info came from. :) I had to read between the lines a lot. > Of course the exact categories need to be decided by discussion on this mail > list. > And somebody would need to tabulate the info (then publish the list monthly). > Finally, an "expert" committee for those items "in dispute"! > > Well ... what do you think? I think it's a damn fine idea. It would be great to have a resource like that available, and it would be fun to construct it. > John Hamilton > hamijohn@aol.com > "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Mar 18 14:42:53 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "Doug Spence" at Mar 18, 97 03:38:32 pm Message-ID: <199703182042.NAA08101@calico.litterbox.com> Of course, this database needs to be written on something like foxbase for the commodore 64 or the database in GSWorks. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 14:49:42 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Montreal collectors? In-Reply-To: <970317095015_-1036476704@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 BigLouS@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-03-17 06:07:12 EST, you write: > > > (And BTW, anyone else had the misfortune of having to carry something > > like the Kaypro home via public transit at rush hour? The machine got a > > lot of interested stares, but boy did my arms hurt when I got home!) > > Yes, except I used a luggage cart (I'm not as strong as I used to be) . > Strange thing was that no one seemed to notice. Well, oddly enough I've never noticed anyone noticing any of the other things I've been carrying on busses and metros. So far only the Kaypro has received stares. Perhaps it's because of the "industrial" look to it, with only some ports visible on the top. Everything else I've carried has either been boxed, or had obvious keyboards on them. The Kaypro II, was actually fairly easy to carry, compared to some other stuff I've transported home in that manner, but I guess that's the point of the "transportable" computers. :) I think the computer I had the worst time carrying home via public transit was the Apple //e... with disk drive, manuals, some software, and some VIC-20 cartridges and a C= 1351 mouse for good measure. Try putting all of that in a plastic bag and handling it elegantly in a crowded bus. :) Maybe someone should compile "Computer Collection Horror Stories". :) > > Lou Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 14:58:13 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > I dunno, but maybe this is what happens to a lot of cassettes: They get > bundled with music cassettes and are either thrown out or put on sale > separately from the computers. I suspect that this does happen quite frequently. I do look through the music cassettes now at the Salvation Army shop I go to since I found "Drop Zone" (lame) for the VIC-20 in there once. I also found a few cartridges amongst the 8-Trak tapes. Big orange cartridges for the Fairchild Channel 'F'. I've never seen one of those game systems, but when I do finally find one I have five cartridges to plug into it. > /F Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 15:03:40 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <199703171553.PAA22947@cream.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Hi, > > Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be > confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" > and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this > URL: I haven't looked at your picture (I'm typing on a VT320 terminal) but I've only ever seen a beige-cased 99/4A *once*, and sadly I didn't collect it. There were literally dozens of silver TI-99/4As at the Salvation Army shop I go to a couple of years ago, before they cleaned the place up and presumably tossed all those machines (and about half as many Color Computers) into the garbage. Perhaps the case of the 4A varies with locale? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 15:07:41 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970317114542_1483792969@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 HamiJohn@aol.com wrote: > The 99/2 did make it out the door - I bought one in a MSP Target. The hex > bus peripherals also were produced, and worked with the CC40 (handheld from > TI). Fascinating. I thought only a few hundred prototypes were made. Sort of like the famous "C65" machines. Does anyone else here have a TI-99/2? > John Hamilton > hamijohn@aol.com > "Old computers never die, they just fade away bit by bit!" Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Mar 18 15:10:15 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) Message-ID: I just had to forward this to the list because I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read it. BTW, Welcome to the list Hans! I don't know if I'am a collector, but I'm intrested in old micro ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My actual junk yard includes: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Computers: CBM 2001, CBM SK 8296D, CBM 3016, VC-20, C-64, ITT MP-Experimerter, SC/MP II, EUROCOM I, APPLE ][euro+, APPLE ///, Lisa 2, Basis 108, Ohio Superboard II, TRS 80 Mod I Lv2 & Expansion, Video-Genie, Olivetti M10, IBM-PC, IBM-PC/XT Clone, SIRIUS 1, OSBORNE 1DQD, ATARI 400, ATARI 800, ATARI 6700XL, ATARI 800XL, ATARI ST 520+, ORIC 1, ORIC ATMOS, Amiga 2000, Sinclair ZX80 & ZX81, Your Computer, MEMO TEST, Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, Yashica YC-64, Sony HiBit (both MSX I), S100-Bus System, Eltec 80, SANYO MB 1000, Sharp MZ80A, Sharp MZ80B, Sharp MZ80K, SWTP, Motorola MEK6802D5, EXORterm (...), ca. 15 additional 6800, 6802 & 6809 Boards, ENTERPRISE 128, TA Alphatronic PC, SIEMENS Mikroset 8080, SIEMENS 5521, SIEMENS PC 16-10, *_SIEMENS PC-D_* (Best DOS computer ever build), SIEMENS PC-MX (9780), SIEMENS PC-MX2, several 486 Clone, Pentium. Terminals: TI Silent 700, TI Silent 709, Whisper Reader Mod 1951, SIEMENS 97801 (green & white), SIEMENS 97801-2, SIEMENS 97808, EECO D400, Heazeltine 1000. Pocket Calculators: Sharp PC 1211, PC 1241, PC 1250, PC 1251, PC 1261, additional 14 non-Basic. Video Games: ATARI XL, ATARI Jaguar, ATARI Lynx, VCS 2600. All but two in running condition. mfg Hans ,-----------------------------------, ! Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut ! '-----------------------------------' From ekman at lysator.liu.se Tue Mar 18 15:15:52 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Little Red Reader In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] > is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little > Red Reader. I haven't actually used LRR myself, but I think a few clarifications are in order: The program requires C128 and either 1571 or 1581 model disk drive(s) to work. I don't remember if it requires two drives or if you can use it with just one. It is also not shareware but freeware. There IS a program which basically does the same thing with a C64 and 1541. It works by formatting a disk so that it can be read by both a 1541 and PC DD floppy drive. You must have a special program on both systems to read and write this disk. Don't remember what it's called, but I could probably find out if anyone is interested enough. /F From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Mar 18 15:25:50 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Weekend report / Thrift stores In-Reply-To: <970317233913_1384942994@emout01.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: > Bill, > > Hope this helps - by the way, did you get a beige or silver unit, and how > much did you pay for it? It's a beige, plastic unit with no "black areas" (that is, base and cart area are beige). I paid $2.99. > Also, where are good thrift places to hit (other than Salvation Army), where > you can go and pick up used computer stuff? I find that pawn shops are often as good as thrift stores. To be honest I've gotten most of my stuff by leaving my number at small computer shops and asking them to call me if they pick up old junk in trade. Usually they either charge me $10 for anything they get or they just call me and ask me to haul it off before they junk it. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 18 15:31:26 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > I just had to forward this to the list because I almost fell > out of my chair laughing when I read it. BTW, Welcome to the > list Hans! Yes, welcome Hans! I hope I don't bother you too much if I comment on something in the list that Bill forwarded. :) > Computers: > Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?). Now, the Laser 3000 is quite an interesting beast for what is supposed to be an Apple compatible system. Do the Laser 50 and Laser 2000 have custom hardware as well? Do you have documentation for your Laser systems? I still haven't managed to figure out all of the extended BASIC commands. How about disk drives? I'm forced to use cassette because the disk drive didn't get to me. Assuming the 2000 is similar to the 3000, can a standard Apple disk drive be interface to the machine somehow? > All but two in running condition. > > mfg > Hans > > ,-----------------------------------, > ! Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut ! > '-----------------------------------' That's an extremely long and interesting list, Hans. I've never even heard of quite a few of those machines, and I've never seen most of the others. There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental computer trade route. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Tue Mar 18 15:34:31 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <333009a8.3168348@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 16:03:40 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > >On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Talking of TI's I have a 99/4A that has an all silver case, not to be >> confused with the beige case.) The serial number is "R 047012 40 83 RC1" >> and the model number is "PHC004A". You can find a picture of it at this >> URL: > >I haven't looked at your picture (I'm typing on a VT320 terminal) but >I've only ever seen a beige-cased 99/4A *once*, and sadly I didn't >collect it. There were literally dozens of silver TI-99/4As at the >Salvation Army shop I go to a couple of years ago, before they cleaned >the place up and presumably tossed all those machines (and about >half as many Color Computers) into the garbage. Perhaps the case of the >4A varies with locale? > >Doug Spence >ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca > No, the beige version was mass-produced and available nationally. I found a couple for a friend last summer. Their only real benefit was a reduced-heat power supply, it worked identically to the prevalent black-and-silver version. _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Mar 18 15:44:17 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <970318124525_-1773162331@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 HamiJohn@aol.com wrote: > In the few days this group has been going, I have been taken down memory lane > over and over again! > I would like to propose that we begin documenting all the great classic > computers of the past. I suggest it be a SIMPLE compilation such as: One step ahead of me already! When I was playing with the potential ClassicCmp web site last night I set aside an area for a project like this. If people are interested I'll be happy to collect and compile listings and post them up. Be aware that 1. I am the world worst HTML scripter and 2. I do all ClassicCmp work on my break. So, it will be ugly and slowly put together ;). If anyone is interested - the ClassicCmp site is: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html Currently there's nothing on the site but some FAQs I've gathered together. Later,Bill Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From BNICALEK at aol.com Tue Mar 18 17:51:19 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Thrift Stores Message-ID: <970318184026_544991043@emout09.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-18 16:42:06 EST, you write: << I find that pawn shops are often as good as thrift stores. To be honest I've gotten most of my stuff by leaving my number at small computer shops and asking them to call me if they pick up old junk in trade. Usually they either charge me $10 for anything they get or they just call me and ask me to haul it off before they junk it. >> Bill, If you happen to get anything for the TI, I'd be interested in purchasing it (like your $2.99 console for example!) Maybe you could contact me first to let me know what's in stock. That would be helpful. Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From mhop at snip.net Tue Mar 18 16:03:09 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam "Super" something Message-ID: <19970318223110905.AAE182@computer-name> A friend of mine found a Coleco Adam "Super" system, or something like that, and was wondering how to operate the tape drive. I remember the tape was fast. It looked like a standard audio tape but would spin like it was in fast forward, and would be loading level 2, while you were still playing level 1. Anyway, he says he is stuck in a typewriter mode and doesn't know how to get out. I remember this mode too, but it's been so long I don't remember either. Anyone? mhop@snip.net From bboys at mcja.com Tue Mar 18 18:04:19 1997 From: bboys at mcja.com (Brian Boys) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Compaq Model III, anyone? Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970319000419.00719378@mail.mcja.com> Would anyone like to have (ie, for FREE) a Compaq Model III? It's one of those newfangled 286s, but it does have a cool fold-out LCD screen. The 5 1/2 floppy works but the hard drive is doubtful. If you're interested e-mail me to figure out how to get it to you. Brian bboys@mcja.com From dcobley at island.net Tue Mar 18 18:27:39 1997 From: dcobley at island.net (David Cobley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam "Super" something Message-ID: <199703190027.QAA18306@norm.island.net> At 05:03 PM 3/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >A friend of mine found a Coleco Adam "Super" system, or something like >that, and was wondering how to operate the tape drive. I remember the tape >was fast. It looked like a standard audio tape but would spin like it was >in fast forward, and would be loading level 2, while you were still playing >level 1. Anyway, he says he is stuck in a typewriter mode and doesn't know >how to get out. I remember this mode too, but it's been so long I don't >remember either. Anyone? > > mhop@snip.net I don't know about an Adam super system but I founded and ran an Adam Users Group, and edited a regular Adam Newsletter for many years so maybe I can help. There are other Adam interested users on this List. First let me describe the Adam tape drive, which was officially called a Digital Datadrive and the specially formatted digital cassettes were called Digital Datapacks. The data was transferred to/from the CPU and recorded on the tape in digital format. The read/write tape speed was 20 inches per second and the transiting was 80 inches per second. Compare that with the regular cassette recorder which has a tape speed of 1 and 3/8" per second. Hence the need for good quality tapes. Regular commercial support for Adam still exists in the US and Canada. If your friend has the keyboard and the printer, which included the system power supply, he should connect all three together and connect the video output TV terminal to a standard TV (Channel 3 or 4 depending on the position of the selector switch on the rear of the CPU). Then switch on the system with the on-off switch at the rear of the printer, and if he gets the "Electronic Typewriter screen, all he needs to do is press the Escape key once and he's into a proprietary word processor called SmartWriter. For this there is no requirement to have a tape in the drive. It comes on an Eprom. If he, or anyone else needs further help with the Coleco Adam, sent me e-mail at my e-mail address and I'll gladly help as much as I can. I still have my original Adam sitting in its workstation, but its been modified somewhat. As well as its two original datadrives it now boasts a 320k 5.25" floppy drive, a 1.44 meg 3.5" f;loppy, a 40 meg IDE hard drive, 1 meg of RAM and produces video on either a composite colour monitor or a Wyse 50 terminal, depending on which of the four available operating systems I'm using. With two serial ports and one parallel port. Cheers. David Cobley. Fidonet on the ADAM, CP/M Tech and Hewlett-Packard Echoes. Internet-dcobley@mail.island.net, or, davidc@macn.bc.ca From rws at ais.net Tue Mar 18 22:51:57 1997 From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I guess I'd might as well send my 'hello' to everyone on the list, and "advertise" my collection. I'm mostly into early personal microcomputers, say 1976-1986. I just started collecting a couple of years ago, so there are still a lot of big holes in my list. Here it is: IBM PC 3*IBM PC XT IBM PC AT IBM PCjr Compaq Plus AT&T PC 6300 Compuadd 220 Tandy 1000HX Tandy TRS-80 Mod. 1, 2, 3 3*TI-99/4A Tandy CoCo 1, 2, 3 2*Timex Sinclair 1000 Timex Sinclair 2068 Point Four Mark 3 (minicomputer) Netronics Elf II Intel iPDS-100 Intel SDK-51 and SDK-2920 Kaypro II HP 9825B HP-85B 3*TI 32010EVM Compupro CPU68K-816 Microlink STD-145 Motorola M68HC16Z1EVB (these last three sit in idle storage because I have no idea what to do with them, but they were free) HP model 46 calculator Magnavox Odyssey2 12 Multibus CPU cards - 8080, 8086, 8088, 80188, 80186, and 80286 a whole mess of Multibus I/O, memory, disk controllers, etc. Intel 86/310 and Teradyne (something-or-other) Multibus chassis Hazeltine 1420, Zenith Z-29, Wyse WY-50, and 3*Data General terminals Printers! NEC Spinwriter, 2*Tandy DMP-130, Tandy DWP-210, Anadex DP-6500, Timex Sinclair 2040, several DMP's parts, parts, parts and if you'll consider it, 80 Darome Model 730 speakerphones, which used an 8031/8155 to control some latches controlling quad bilateral switches controlling impedance matching. These things were meant to be modified! Well, that's my list. I'm looking forward to lengthing it at a hamfest this Sunday. Incidentally, would anyone know if Anadex is still in business, or if I could find a manual for my DP-6500 printer through another source? This thing has about 30 DIP switches on it, and I'd like to get it running. Richard Schauer rws@ais.net From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Mar 19 00:34:57 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Tony Cianfaglione wrote: > > Is Little Red Reader a PC program or a CBM program? Do you run it on a > PC and do all of the conversion there or on a C64? > > Tony > > ------------------------ LRR is a 64/128 program. The conversion takes place on the 64/128 side [i.e. it reads PC format disks] For more info see the response to another one of the posts. MM > > On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: > > > > > One good way that I have found [for FTPing off the net] > > is to use a program [for commodore computers] called Little > > Red Reader. Basically, you just download onto your PC > > then copy to a PC floppy. Little Red Reader is basically a > > shareware clone of Big Blue Reader. It lets you copy from > > PC fromat to CBM format and is actually pretty quick about > > it! Ive had no problems so far. You can FTP it from the > > usual C= sites [ftp.funet.fi etc.] > > Enjoy! > > > > > From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Mar 19 00:49:24 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Where does the software go? In-Reply-To: <199703181423.GAA28850@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Message-ID: OK, some things about Little Red Reader: [a program for the commodore 64/128 that lets you read PC disks] LRR was originally made for the C128 and a 1571 [DS/DD drive]. A 64 version [which requires a 1571 drive] supposedly exists, but I cannot vouch for that as I own a 128. The program basically reprograms the 1571 [or 1581] to allow it to read/write MFM format disks [in this case IBM] The program will read and write 360k IBM format on a 1571 and 720k on a 1581. Yes, the program can "go both ways", that is, it can copy CBM to IBM and the reverse as well. As for reading MFM format disks on a 1541, this is generally thought to be impossible because the 1541 only reads GCR format disks, not MFM. BUT!!!!!! There is a hardware modification and a companion program that does allow one to copy a PC format disk. Ask somone on the newsgroup where to find it though, as its wherabouts has slipped my mind. ALSO, besides the X1541 procedure, there is another hardwrae mod for a PC type drive that enables it to read commodre disks. Please dont ask me specififcs, I really dont know how this was/is accomplished. Hope this clarifies things! MM From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Wed Mar 19 00:54:10 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So, in other words, we are looking at a "Classic Computer Encyclopedia"? Sounds good! I have also wanted to do this as well. But, just like this mailing list; I hope you know what you are getting into! The CBM FAQ [which has a list of commodore computers] lists about 75-100 different computers alone! As for HTML coding, I am sure everyone on here would be more than willing to help [well, i am atleast]. I also have a 3 foot stack of magazines from 1983-1986 and 1989-1991 and a color scanner so I have alot of old pictures of lotsa cool stuff! MM From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Wed Mar 19 03:17:02 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Laser500, Computer from Europe, FleaMarket Message-ID: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> >> Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, > ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a > Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from > the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of > are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?). are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case. I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? > There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to > get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental > computer trade route. :) VERY GOOD IDEA - I got some of my computers from the US ... If anyone is interested in trading (Computer and Video-Games): http://hal.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen/Museum/Gallery/Gallery.html I also have a small flea-market for old computer at http://hal.do.isst.fhg.de/~walgen/Museum/HCM.html Furthermore it could be interesting to make a list of common european computers that are possibly rare in the US. Here a first try - please make comments on the rarity of these computers in the US: Common European Computer (esp. Germany): Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe) Commodore C-116 Commodore C-16 Commodore VC-20 (has not VIC-20 as label) Philips VG 8010, VG8020, NMS8280 (all MSX) Philips G7000 (Video games) Schneider CPC 464, CPC 664, CPC6128, Joyce PCW 8256 Sharp MZ-700, MZ-800 Sinclair QL Sony HitBit HB-75D (MSX) Triumph Adler Alphatronic TA Robotron KC85/3 (from ex. east germany - Z-80 clone) Common European Computer (esp. France): Matra Alice, Alice 90 Thomson TO7, TO7-70 Thomson MO5, TO8, TO8D Common European Computer (esp. Netherlands): MSX Computer. esp. Philips -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 4210 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970319/7c81cd60/attachment-0001.bin From mhop at snip.net Tue Mar 18 16:42:06 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Classic Computers List (fwd) Message-ID: <19970319092653527.AAA163@computer-name> > My actual junk yard includes: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ATARI 400, ATARI 800, ATARI 6700XL, ATARI 800XL, Atari 6700XL ?? You mean 600XL, right? I don't there was a 6700xl. mhop@snip.net From dzander at solaria.sol.net Wed Mar 19 07:46:47 1997 From: dzander at solaria.sol.net (Douglas Zander) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! Message-ID: <199703191346.HAA01795@solaria.sol.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1029 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970319/99695e92/attachment-0001.ksh From idavis at comland.com Wed Mar 19 09:31:34 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970319153134.008e9d54@mail.comland.com > At 07:46 AM 3/19/97 CST, you wrote: > My nephew owns an Atari 800XL computer, and I was wondering if anyone >knows of any source for basic programs he could type in and learn from. >I think the basic programs should be short and easy for a 7th grader to >learn from. Thanks for any help. I will be writing up a mastermind program >for him and maybe a tic-tac-toe game for him. Anyone have ideas for other >games that can be written in BASIC and are easy to understand and short? >Thanks in advance. > >-- > Douglas Zander | many things interest me, too many to list > dzander@solaria.sol.net | here. if you want a profile :-) why not > Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA | send me a letter? tell me about yourself, > "Over-looking Lake Michigan." | I'll tell you about myself. > Douglas, There are some good programs that he can type in and learn in the back of the basic manual. I would recommend that he get a copy of the basic manual and there are also some good books on learning basic on the atari. Check in the newsgroups, there are auctions going on constantly. A good idea for a short little program would be one to create word searches, you know the ones where you have a list of words and a block of letters, and you have to find the words hidden in the block of letters. It was one of my first programming projects, and it came out real nice. He could then start modifying it to print out the answers, and also make the size of the puzzle variable (20X20, 40X40, 20X40.....) This kind of program isn't very big to write, and it really gives a good grasp of variables and how to manipulate them, plus maybe a little disk io if he decides he wants to save them as text files. Another good source of programs is old magazines. Almost all of them had programs that you could(had to) type in, and they range from games to utilities. Tell him good luck, and stick with it. I learned to program on my Atari in 1983, and today I still love to program, in fact it's how I make a living. It's really good to see these older computers still have a purpose and a following of people that realize their worth. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From ekman at lysator.liu.se Wed Mar 19 10:02:42 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Atari cartridges Message-ID: Inspired by the discussions on this list I decided today to visit the various thrift shops in town to see if there was anything worth salvaging. I knew of eight shops before starting out, two turned out to have closed and one was too far away from downtown to be worth bothering with. As for the rest, there was not much to be found. Apart from three old monitors (one with a built-in Hercules card, according to a hand-written label) and an Amstrad PC keyboard, I found nothing of interest. However, I happened to walk past an electronic repair shop and since they had some old TV sets on display, I thought I could just as well go in and ask if they had any old computer stuff. And what do you know: in the window beside the door were six old Atari 400/800 game cartridges, with boxes and everything, seemingly in very good condition and probably never opened. (They had their original price tags of SEK 625.) I remember seeing Pac-Man, Missile Command and Qix. There was also one cartridge for some other system of which I have never heard before. Unfortunately I don't remember which one, but the title of the game was Chinese Logic. Now, are these worth anything and is anyone interested in them? I asked about them and it seems like they would be happy to sell them very cheap. /F From visimp at junction.net Wed Mar 19 10:04:28 1997 From: visimp at junction.net (Lindsay Thachuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Laser500, Computer from Europe, FleaMarket In-Reply-To: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> References: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: <19970319.080428.07@junction.net> In message <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> you wrote: > > > There are a lot of very common (in Europe) European machines I'd like to > > get my hands on, perhaps someone should set up an intercontinental > > computer trade route. :) > > Furthermore it could be interesting to make a list of common european > computers that are possibly rare in the US. Here a first try - please > make comments on the rarity of these computers in the US: I have another few entries from across the Atlantic. Made in the U.K. (sold briefly in the U.S.) Classic Machines Acorn BBC Model A Acorn BBC Model B Acorn Master 128 Acorn Compact These were 8-bit 6502 machines with a ROM operating system, built in BASIC and networking called Econet, and operated in 7 screen modes. Unique was its ability to plug in a dual processor and they all had a user port for interfacing to the outside world. They were very popular in education and lots of educational software is still available. For the record, they were replaced by 32-bit RISC machines. I own eight of the Model B's here in Canada and use their latest 32-bit 200 Mhz StrongARM processor in my Acorn RISC PC. Anyone seen any American models around?? -- Lindsay Thachuk in Western Canada with the World's Best Computer - the Acorn RiscPC with the only StrongARM in ARMstrong From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Wed Mar 19 10:36:24 1997 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! Message-ID: <01IGOMGHT4WY8Y5M5N@AC.GRIN.EDU> > My nephew owns an Atari 800XL computer, and I was wondering if anyone > knows of any source for basic programs he could type in and learn from. > I think the basic programs should be short and easy for a 7th grader to > learn from. Thanks for any help. I will be writing up a mastermind program > for him and maybe a tic-tac-toe game for him. Anyone have ideas for other > games that can be written in BASIC and are easy to understand and short? > Thanks in advance. Used book stores. They often have old computer books lying around which they'll sell to you for a couple dollars, and it shouldn't be too hard to find books of basic games. Heck, I have a book of 33 games designed for PET, Apple ][, or TRS-80 BASIC that I could send to you, if you want. They're pretty, uh, basic, but taking them apart isn't a bad way to learn BASIC. I really should sleep more, -- Ben Coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu 530 User anonymous access denied. http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley for fiction, etc. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Mar 19 10:48:26 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: <01IGOMGHT4WY8Y5M5N@AC.GRIN.EDU> from "Benjamin M Coakley" at Mar 19, 97 10:36:24 am Message-ID: <199703191648.JAA12906@calico.litterbox.com> If you can find a book called Basic Computer Games by David Ahl (I think there were about 4 volumes, actually, but I have volume 1) it contains some real classics. Like the text based Star Trek game. (This was in my C=64 days - a friend of mine's mom typed in this huge program for him, he gave me a copy and we spent our time hacking in sound and graphics on the '64.) Some of the games are very short - a dozen lines or so. Others, like Star Trek mentioned above, are hundreds. To tell the truth I don't know really how much programming I learned with it, except when we were hacking the sound routines into Trek, of course, but they're good books with good games. I learned a great deal more programming writing my own Dungeons and Dragons player character generator. It was times like those I fervently wished Commodore had provided renumbering in their basic - I discovered gosub because I ran out of line numbers in the program. :) Didn't learn structured programming until I took it in High School on, you guessed it, commodore 64s (and CBM 8032s, actually) At the time I was one of the only students who could do his homework in computer class at home and bring his tape drive in and load it in class. :) For more interesting programming challenges there's a book called "Exploring artifical intelligence on the commodore 64" it has classic AI programs like "doctor" in commodore basic. Granted someone'd have to translate the programs but they looked pretty good. -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu Wed Mar 19 10:58:21 1997 From: rkneusel at post.its.mcw.edu (Ronald T Kneusel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Dead Ataris In-Reply-To: <199703191346.HAA01795@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: Greetings all! Last night a friend dropped by and brought with him a big box full of old Atari stuff that his company was about to trash. It included: Atari 800 Atari 800XL Carts: Pac-Man, Centipede, Space Invaders, Star Raiders, Basic, Asteroids and an educational game. All manuals included 2 working Wico joysticks All power supplies Inside Atari BASIC book Atari 800 manuals Now, the trouble is.. neither computer works. When powered up they both give a clear green screen and that is it. The carts and joysticks work just fine as my Atari 400 was able to tell us. I popped the top on the 800 and pushed on all the chips and still nothing. I'm a bit perplexed as to why both machines are acting the same way. They use different power supplies and the 800 power supply works with the 400. I'm new to Ataris, so it this a sign of something that commonly went wrong with these machines? All help appreciated! - Ron Kneusel rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Mar 19 11:33:16 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Greetings! Message-ID: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> Hello all, I'm new to the list, and have been "lurking" for a few days. Things look pretty good, but as most of the discussion relates to micro- computer systems, I wonder if anyone here shares my passion for mini- computer gear. I maintain a collection of functional minicomputers and am rather heavily involved in several restoration projects currently underway. My collection's primary focus is Data General machines in the 16-bit class, although I have several DEC systems as well. Does anyone else here collect minis? Of course, it goes without saying that any information on the whereabouts of "available" DG 16-bitters would be vastly appreciated! Cheers! ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Mar 19 11:55:54 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 12:33:16 pm Message-ID: <199703191755.KAA13205@calico.litterbox.com> That sounds like an interesting collection... but an expensive one to power up. I assume you've read Soul of the New Machine about the Data General push to a 32 bit response to the VAX? -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:00:03 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 12:33 (noon) Message-ID: <199703191800.4337@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > Hello all, > > I'm new to the list, and have been "lurking" for a few days. Things > look pretty good, but as most of the discussion relates to micro- > computer systems, I wonder if anyone here shares my passion for mini- > computer gear. Yes, I'm mostly a minicomputer person - they're so much more fun than micros :-). I currently have a number of DEC machines (PDP11's, PDP8/e, PDP8/a), a Philips P850, an HP2100A (I am searching for information on that if anyone has anything...), etc. Nothing Data General (yet!), alas. Do you count PERQ workstations as minis? The CPU is somewhat similar to minicomputers of the time, although extra hardware was added for the rasterop machine (bit blitter). > Cheers! > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dzander at solaria.sol.net Wed Mar 19 12:16:52 1997 From: dzander at solaria.sol.net (Douglas Zander) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Oh no! my C128 is dead!? Message-ID: <199703191816.MAA03623@solaria.sol.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1025 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970319/19e850f3/attachment-0001.ksh From gram at cnct.com Wed Mar 19 12:33:54 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: <199703191648.JAA12906@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Jim wrote: > If you can find a book called Basic Computer Games by David Ahl (I think there > were about 4 volumes, actually, but I have volume 1) it contains some real > classics. Like the text based Star Trek game. (This was in my C=64 > days - a friend of mine's mom typed in this huge program for him, he gave > me a copy and we spent our time hacking in sound and graphics on the '64.) Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition (MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back in 1978/79 I translated quite of the programs from the Microcomputer version to the HP2000 at the community college I was attending. I recall that the hardest part was that string handling, especially substrings, were very different. Ward Griffiths -- There will be peace on Earth when the last king has been strangled with the entrails of the last priest. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Mar 19 12:19:14 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Of Minicomputers and Power Message-ID: <199703191819.AA24866@bs014.swec.com> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:55:54 -0700, Jim Strickland spake thusly unto us: > [...] sounds like an interesting collection... but an expensive one > to power up. All in all, the minis aren't that bad on power. The Novas only draw a couple hundred watts and usually aren't powered on at the same time. The pdp11/34a is a hog, though; the month I started working on that one the power bill went to $75. I believe the largest amount of computer power running in the house at once was the time when my wife had both PCs up and I had my DECstation, VAXstation, and InterAct fired up at the same time. The LAN took a beating that day. > I assume you've read Soul of the New Machine about the Data General > push to a 32 bit response to the VAX? What DG "head" hasn't? Cheers. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Mar 19 12:21:44 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: PERQ Systems Message-ID: <199703191821.AA24879@bs014.swec.com> On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:00:03 GMT, Tony Duell mentioned: > Do you count PERQ workstations as minis? The CPU is somewhat similar > to minicomputers of the time, although extra hardware was added for > the rasterop machine (bit blitter). I confess an absolute ignorance of the PERQ machinery. I've never even seen one. Posted information might be interesting to the gathered assemblage. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:24:11 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Of Minicomputers and Power In-Reply-To: <199703191819.AA24866@bs014.swec.com>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 1:19 pm Message-ID: <199703191824.5987@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > The pdp11/34a is a hog, though; the month I started working on that one > the power bill went to $75. You should try my PDP11/45 system - 8 demountable hard disks, magtape, a couple of expansion boxes, paper tape, etc. It probably pulls about 4kW in total. Fortunately I'm in the UK, where we have 240V mains, and where the standard mains circuit is a 30A ring main. That's 7.2kW (or thereabouts), and I have such a circuit just for my computer room. Of course that doesn't affect the cost of running it, but at least it means I can run up these larger machines from time to time. > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From danjo at xnet.com Wed Mar 19 12:41:39 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Dan and Joanne Tucker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 12:33:16 pm Message-ID: <199703191841.MAA02271@xnet.com> > Hello all, > > I maintain a collection of functional minicomputers and am rather > heavily involved in several restoration projects currently underway. > My collection's primary focus is Data General machines in the 16-bit > class, although I have several DEC systems as well. Does anyone else > here collect minis? Sure I do, but then again what's a mini? Got a PDP-11/23 and another on the way (I hope). This one has the CPM board installed as well. Right now I forget who put that out? Have a Sigma controller running a couple of MFM Hard drives. I use it to heat the house in the winter 8-) That and my Intellec mds800 Multibus machine. Running ISIS II D.O.S. Half the cabinet is Linear Power Supply! Also have 6502 development boards KIM-1 and VIM-1 AND I wouldn't mind finding a AIM-65 to go with those 8-) > Of course, it goes without saying that any information on the > whereabouts of "available" DG 16-bitters would be vastly appreciated! Wouldn't know - never got involved with them 8-) I have noticed tho where ever they sold well, you find them (?) and I don't think DG sold well her in the Chicago area OR they are still beating the H#LL out of them and you can't get them. I do have one thing to do tho - I HAVE to fire up my old TVT-1 and see if it works. BC From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:54:34 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: PERQ Systems In-Reply-To: <199703191821.AA24879@bs014.swec.com>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 19, 97 1:21 pm Message-ID: <199703191854.8242@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 18:00:03 GMT, Tony Duell mentioned: > > > Do you count PERQ workstations as minis? The CPU is somewhat similar > > to minicomputers of the time, although extra hardware was added for > > the rasterop machine (bit blitter). > > I confess an absolute ignorance of the PERQ machinery. I've never > even seen one. I must enlighten you, then - they're very nice machines IMHO, but then, as a PERQ-fanatic, I'm biased :-) They were IMHO the first commercially-sold graphics workstations. The PERQ 1 came out in 1979, and had the following features : CPU : 20 bit ALU path, with 16 bit path to main memory. ALU also used to calculate the 20 bit (word) addresses for the main memory 256 20 bit general purpose registers (that is not a typo), 16 level 20 bit expression stack. 4K writeable control store, with 2910 sequencer chip. Microcode loaded from disk (normally) at boot-up. Rasterop machine (bitblitter) graphics accelerator. Uses barrel shift from main CPU logic + PROMs to implement bitblit operations. CPU calculates memory addresses, while rasterop logic performs the actual updates. Capable of more than 10 full-screen updates per second. Memory/video 64 bit wide (interally) memory board, with 16 bit path to CPU. Also 64 bit path to video shift registers. Video was 768 (horizontal) * 1024 (vertical) bitmap. Memory was word addressed and varied from 256kB to 2MB Monitor was a 15" (approx) portrait unit. I/O RS232 port, IEEE488 port, keyboard, sound (PCM Codec), 8" floppy drive controlled by a Z80 + 1K RAM + ROM, communicating with the main PERQ CPU via an array of FIFOs. 24Mbyte 14" Shugart SA4000 hard disk with own controller. DMA engine between Z80 FIFO, hard disk controller, and optional peripherals and main PERQ memory. Optional networking (initially some PERQ custom thing, later Ethernet), 16 bit parallel link (compatable with DEC DR11-A) and laser printer (initially Canon LBP-10, later Canon CX-VDO). Pointing Device Summagraphics bit pad one tablet, connected via GPIB interface Software Initial operating system was POS (PERQ Operating System), which used an enhanced pascal as the system programming language. The machine code was called Q-code, and was an enhanced p-code in many ways. POS was single-user, single tasking, but supported some basic window operations, pop-up menus, etc. PNX was a version of Unix, ported to the PERQ by ICL (who sold the machine in the UK). It was basically version 7, with a bit of Sys3 added on top. It had a window manager, called WMS, which feels a bit odd, but which was (I think) the first such system. The hardware was built from entirely standard ICs (TTL + PROMs, mainly), and fitted into a deskside case. About a year later, the PERQ1a arrived. This had a revised CPU board with 16K of writeable control store (addressed as 4 off 4K banks for compatability reasons), multiply/divide hardware, and some more hardware instructions. Many PERQ1's were upgraded to the 1a specification (just a CPU board swap). Then came the PERQ 2T1. This used the same (16K) CPU and memory boards, but had a revised I/O board. This had 2 serial ports, keyboard interface, sound (same as the older board), 8" floppy controller and a real time clock controlled by the Z80. The Z80 now had 16K of RAM, and you could download programs into the RAM and run them on the Z80. The hard disk controller was modified, and now controlled an 8" micropolis 1203 hard disk. You could fit the PERQ 1 option I/O board (laser printer, second ethernet, 16 bit parallel). The cabinet design was also changed, the keyboard became a VT100-layout one, and the Summagraphics bit pad was replaced by a custom electomagnetic one (called a Kriz tablet, after the designer) The next machine as the PERQ 2T2. This was the same machine as the 2T1 (new cabinet, new I/O board) but used a standard ST506-interfaced hard disk. Various models existed, with different hard drives. Both Portrait (768*1024) and landscape (1280*1024) models exist. The last of the classic PERQs (as this family is often known) was the PERQ 2T4. This had a 24 bit CPU (instead of the 20 bit one in all other models) and 4MB of RAM, in theory expandable to 32MB. Otherwise it was identical to the 2T2. I am told that _very_ few were made, though. That was the end of the classic PERQ line. The name was carried on by ICL for a short time, who made the PERQ 3000 (aka PERQ 3a) AGW (Advanced Graphics Workstation). This came out in about 1987 and was a 68020-based unix workstation with a custom graphics accelerator based on a pair of AM29116 ALUs and 4K of control store. The rest of the machine was fairly standard, using standard peripheral ICs. I am told that, again, very few of these were made. If you are interested in these machines, try posting to alt.sys.perq, where we have very few flames (other than for spam, totally off-topic posts and idiots who ask why we still bother with these old machines). Feel free to ask introductory-level questions - hopefully somebody there will answer you. > Posted information might be interesting to the gathered assemblage. I hope the above is interesting. Feel free to ask for more details. > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Wed Mar 19 12:57:35 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191841.MAA02271@xnet.com>; from "Dan and Joanne Tucker" at Mar 19, 97 12:41 (noon) Message-ID: <199703191857.8435@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Sure I do, but then again what's a mini? Got a PDP-11/23 and another It's difficult to define 'mini' IMHO. I tend to claim a 'mini' is a machine smaller than a mainframe (i.e. I can fit it in the house!) but where the CPU is not a single chip, or a single chipset (which would make it a micro). Unfortunately that makes the 11/23 a micro, which is curious to say the least. > That and my Intellec mds800 Multibus machine. Running ISIS II D.O.S. > Half the cabinet is Linear Power Supply! I know the MDS800 well, and it's certainly a micro. I have one, with the double-density disk controller, 8080 ICE cards, Universal PROM Programmer (which is controlled by a 4040), etc. It's based on the 8080, of course. > BC -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From william at ans.net Wed Mar 19 13:06:06 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <199703191733.AA24694@bs014.swec.com> Message-ID: <199703191906.AA19074@interlock.ans.net> > I maintain a collection of functional minicomputers and am rather > heavily involved in several restoration projects currently underway. > My collection's primary focus is Data General machines in the 16-bit > class, although I have several DEC systems as well. Does anyone else > here collect minis? I do - the systems I have are a mixed lot. The big (6' rack) minis are a DEC PDP-8/s, Interdata 14, and HP 2100A (well, minus the rack - the guy wanted to keep _that_ part). Unracked are a PDP-8/e and PDP-11/34, and a bunch of really ancient M6800 based micros (Motorola Exorsisor, SWTPC, and three Spheres, one unbuilt). I also have some Sun stuff (3/280, 3/50, 3/60, 4/280, 4/370). Those PERQ machine sound interesting - I have never seen one either. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dlormand at aztec.asu.edu Wed Mar 19 13:22:19 1997 From: dlormand at aztec.asu.edu (DAVID L. ORMAND) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <9703191922.AA03982@aztec.asu.edu> I'm not totally sure yet another ad hoc list is in our best interests. There are some Web sites dedicated to Classic Computers that list some/most of the old sets and what went with them (peripherals, memory, etc.). If you feel that a seperate list is still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web sites and how good you think they are. Some, like Rich Polivka's page, are dedicated to a single machine (our trusty TI). I imagine other machines have something similar. -- ********************************************** * David Ormand *** Southwest 99ers * * dlormand@aztec.asu.edu *** Tucson, Arizona * **************************** TMS9900 Lives! * From george.lin at documentum.com Wed Mar 19 13:40:40 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970319114040.00f908c4@lion.documentum.com> Hi all, I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one? Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it. In the same store, I picked up a Peripheral Expansion Box for my TI 99/4A. It comes with 1 floppy disk drive, 32K memory expansion, serial adapter, and flex cable adapter. However, the fuse and the cap that holds the fuse in place are gone. Does anyone know the specification for the fuse or know where I can get a replacement for it and the cap? Any help is greatly appreciated. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From idavis at comland.com Wed Mar 19 13:50:56 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Dead Ataris Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970319195056.008dc280@mail.comland.com > At 10:58 AM 3/19/97 -0600, Ron Kneusel wrote: >Now, the trouble is.. neither computer works. When powered up they both >give a clear green screen and that is it. The carts and joysticks work >just fine as my Atari 400 was able to tell us. > >I popped the top on the 800 and pushed on all the chips and still >nothing. I'm a bit perplexed as to why both machines are acting the same >way. They use different power supplies and the 800 power supply works >with the 400. > >I'm new to Ataris, so it this a sign of something that commonly went >wrong with these machines? > >All help appreciated! > >- Ron Kneusel > rkneusel@post.its.mcw.edu > Ron, The only one that I might be of help is the 800. I pulled the OS board out of my atari and got the green screen. I can only deduce from this that maybe with both machines, there is something wrong with the OS board, but there might be more to it than that. I have had my 800 since 1983, and have not had any real problems with it. Knock on wood. I know I shouldn't say things like that, but oh well, I said it anyway. Hope this helps. There is a guy here in Austin that would have a spare OS board for the 800, if you want his name and email, let me know and I will pull it out for you. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 19 17:23:15 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Of Minicomputers and Power In-Reply-To: <199703191819.AA24866@bs014.swec.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 10:55:54 -0700, Jim Strickland spake thusly > unto us: > > > [...] sounds like an interesting collection... but an expensive one > > to power up. > > I believe the largest amount of computer power running in the > house at once was the time when my wife had both PCs up and I had my > DECstation, VAXstation, and InterAct fired up at the same time. The > LAN took a beating that day. Hrumph! You have not seen a power meter REALLY spin until I hit the switch on my Vax 11/780! Even the PDP-11/70 in the collection comes in a poor second to that critter! ( ridiculous huge B^} ) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 20:40:26 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 19-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just >that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. >The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition >(MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back Ward, I have the TRS-80 edition here among my different books, and it is indeed by the same David H. Ahl. I think my favorite program in it is the Star Trek game. I remember even getting to play that same game on a Honeywell mainframe or mini of some type back around 1985 or so. In that version, there was a bug that allowed you to create energy instead of using it if you put the warp factor in as a negative number. We used to put it in as a very large negative power or 10 or so, and that gave us more energy than we could possibly use the whole game, all on the first move! BTW, on a similar note, I saw a web page the other day about a reference book in the works, and it covered even all of these early micro versions of Basic, and cross referenced the commands to any other variant. I saw a book like this years ago, but it covered the popular micros of the time such as the Apple's, TRS-80's, and such. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 19 18:10:35 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Hello all! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just > that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. > The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition > (MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back in > 1978/79 I translated quite of the programs from the Microcomputer version > to the HP2000 at the community college I was attending. I recall that > the hardest part was that string handling, especially substrings, were > very different. Ummm... Beg to differ. In addition to "101 BASIC Computer Games" was the follow up volume "MORE BASIC Computer Games" by the self same David H. Ahl. (I have both volumes in my collection) B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From BigLouS at aol.com Wed Mar 19 19:31:50 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Franklin 2000 Message-ID: <970319203032_415483809@emout15.mail.aol.com> Does anyone have any schematics or info on this machine? I have one that refuses to boot and seems to have a bad 74LS259 in what I'm pretty sure is the disk circuitry. Any help or info is appreciated. Thanks, Lou From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 22:34:13 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... Message-ID: This is for all of you that are familiar with the TI-99/4 and 4A and it's Speech Synthesizer. Does anyone know if there were any of the Plug-In Speech Modules ever released? Granted, the reported 373 words (from the Synthesizer booklet) is pretty good, it'd be nice if it were larger. Also, I'm looking for any cartridges that used the Synthesizer, as the only two I have that do is 'Parsec' and 'Terminal Emulator II'. I am especially in need of the 'Speech Editor' cartridge. As an aside, I was going through the different manuals and such I have for the TI-99/4A and found "Entertainment Games in TI Basic and Extended Basic" from SAMS in the Blacksburg Continuing Education Series. It still includes the manual, TI Basic reference card, and a cassette with the programs on it. According to the manual, there are twenty programs in all, and it looks fairly interesting. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From spc at armigeron.com Wed Mar 19 20:12:39 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 Message-ID: <199703200212.VAA22119@armigeron.com> At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long on the screen): Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before going to alt.folklore.computers. 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past the bad CMOS? 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. 3. The daughter board also contains the ROMs, and the one that's in there looks to be an EPROM. The markings are TMS / 27C512JL / LPD8809. I'm mostly a software guy, so some of this hardware is puzzling to say the least. I'd like to get this system up and running. -spc (Oh, so it's www.zds.com and NOT www.zenith.com 8-) From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 17 23:33:42 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 19-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long >on the screen): > Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. > I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before >going to alt.folklore.computers. If the 386 BIOS goes by the same keystrokes and such as the Z-248 '286 BIOS, you should hit Ctrl-Alt-INSERT as the machine powers up to access the built-in BIOS setup. >1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use > a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past > the bad CMOS? No, Zenith systems do not use a non-standard keyboard. It sounds likely that it may not be getting that far. >2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the > ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V > Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface > 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs > are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm > wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. If you remove the cover and watch the 8 LED's, you'll be able to watch them progress from all dark, to all lit up as each POST test is completed. I know on some Z-248's I've seen, there are even little captions silkscreened on the board next to the LED so that you can tell which part of the test it's on. On the Z-248 though, the LED's are on the main backplane board, on which the processor, memory, I/O, diskcontroller, and any other board, plugs into. Hope this helps at least a little. All of my experiece is with the 286 powered Z-248, but hopefully at least some of it will help you out. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Mar 19 21:56:02 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:00 2005 Subject: TI Model Number In-Reply-To: <970316140626_1848371460@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970319195602.00cde48c@agora.rdrop.com> At 02:06 PM 3/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-03-16 14:02:04 EST, you write: > ><< This CPU was thought to be very powerfull for its time. Was it 16bit, > while most of the others were 8bit? >> > >Yes, the TI was the FIRST 16-Bit Computer ever manufactured. TI invented the >integrated circuit, the microprocessor, and the microcomputer, altogether. > Being first was their tradition. Who knows if it still is? Ummm... beg to differ a bit here... While I believe that TI did indeed invent the integrated circuit, it was Intel that invented the microprocessor (the 4004), and the microcomputer first arose from various construction articles in electronics hobbiest related magazines at the time where the when the microprocessors were still relegated to controller tasks (calculators, traffic light controllers, etc.) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From pcoad at crl.com Thu Mar 20 01:58:13 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970319114040.00f908c4@lion.documentum.com> Message-ID: George, On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, George Lin wrote: > I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The > system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot > disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I > remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible > with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an > Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one? > Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne > formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it. > Contact Don Maslin . He is the keeper of the Dina-SIG System Disk Archive. He is a great source of system disks for CP/M machines. He usually charges $3 for the first disk and $1-2 for each additional disk. I got some system disks for and O1 from him early this year. He is and excellent resource and a righteous dude. Without him and the system disk archive many otherwise working machines would have ended up in the landfill. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeffh at eleventh.com Tue Mar 18 06:13:30 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >I got some system disks for and O1 from him early this year. He is and >excellent resource and a righteous dude. Without him and the system >disk archive many otherwise working machines would have ended up in >the landfill. I can definately vouch for Dan here! I've bought the system disks for both my Osbourne Executive and the Kaypro 2X from him. He's very quick to repsond to inquiries, and he's also very knowledgable about the different systems. He posts on Usenet in the CP/M group quite often. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From dzander at solaria.sol.net Thu Mar 20 04:55:06 1997 From: dzander at solaria.sol.net (Douglas Zander) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? Message-ID: <199703201055.EAA10712@solaria.sol.net> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 643 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970320/e99582fc/attachment-0001.ksh From ekman at lysator.liu.se Thu Mar 20 05:59:06 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <9703191922.AA03982@aztec.asu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, DAVID L. ORMAND wrote: > If you feel that a seperate list is > still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web > sites and how good you think they are. Your suggestion is good, but for at least three reasons cannot replace a "complete" list. Firstly, the various web sites are all in different formats, making it difficult to make comparisons. Perhaps you cannot even find the information you are interested in. If we make our own list, we can decide together what information we need and put it together in a standardized way. This would also facilitate sorting. Say that I want to know what micros with at least 64K RAM existed before the C64 was released. I wish you good luck if you want to hunt this information down on the web sites and present it in a uniform fashion. Secondly, not all systems are covered by the web sites. I challenge you to find a page about the Sord M5. I double challenge you to find one about the Sord IS-11. Not everyone has the possibility to add a new site about his favourite computer, but sending an addition to a list maintainer is rather straightforward. (As an aside, I am currently working on a Sord M5 home page. No plans for the IS-11 yet, though.) Thirdly (and in my opinion most importantly) you can never say for sure what web sites are still there tomorrow. Maintainers move and take their pages with them, or they may decide that they no longer have the time or resources to keep it up, or the archives may be reorganized and all links end up in void, or an ISP may go belly-up, or... The Internet's swiftly changing structure is a double-edged sword. In short, one thing may not exclude the other. Both suggestions have their advantages and disadvantages. /F From gram at cnct.com Thu Mar 20 06:45:51 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Ahl's BASIC Computer Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, James Willing wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > > Actually, there was only one volume of BASIC Computer Games, it's just > > that there were several editions/translations of the same set of programs. > > The original was in DEC BASIC, then there was the Microcomputer edition > > (MITS Altair BASIC), a TRS-80 edition and probably a few others. Back in > > Ummm... Beg to differ. In addition to "101 BASIC Computer Games" was the > follow up volume "MORE BASIC Computer Games" by the self same David H. > Ahl. (I have both volumes in my collection) B^} You're right. Forgot that one. It didn't have nearly as many translations and it wasn't nearly as good. I guess Ahl (what's he been doing lately?) was too busy with Creative Computing's corporate relations when it came out. (There's a special place in Hell for certain Ziff-Davis management.) Ward Griffiths From classicjr at juno.com Thu Mar 20 10:29:52 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors References: Message-ID: <19970320.083043.5303.0.classicjr@juno.com> Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. Does anyone have connections to the National/World media about this?? Jeff Rottman in Texas From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 20 09:15:30 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "Fredrik Ekman" at Mar 20, 97 12:59:06 pm Message-ID: <199703201515.KAA23250@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Fredrik Ekman once stated: > > Secondly, not all systems are covered by the web sites. I challenge you to > find a page about the Sord M5. I double challenge you to find one about > the Sord IS-11. Oooh, willing to put some money on that? 8-) Well, in a few minutes of searching [1], I came up with the following: Sord M5: Picture of Sord M5: http://194.22.63.201/homepages/gerard.laures/sord-m5.htm Some info: http://www.hh.schule.de/hhs/computer/sordm5.htm Info and Picture: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/square/chriss/hchof/sordm5.html Unfortunately, I couldn't find any information about the Sord IS-11. Maybe it was wise I didn't put any money down on it. Point taken. -spc (But given more time I might have found something ... ) [1] Using a program which submits the query to 15 other engines and displays the results. I probably wouldn't mention it, but I wrote the darned thing (the program, not the site) - http://www.cyber411.com/ From BNICALEK at aol.com Thu Mar 20 11:03:46 1997 From: BNICALEK at aol.com (BNICALEK@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... Message-ID: <970320120257_1781912465@emout09.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-19 20:49:20 EST, you write: > >This is for all of you that are familiar with the TI-99/4 and 4A and it's >Speech Synthesizer. Does anyone know if there were any of the Plug-In Speech >Modules ever released? Granted, the reported 373 words (from the Synthesizer >booklet) is pretty good, it'd be nice if it were larger. Also, I'm looking >for any cartridges that used the Synthesizer, as the only two I have that do >is 'Parsec' and 'Terminal Emulator II'. I am especially in need of the >'Speech Editor' cartridge. There were many "Speech Synthesizer" modules released. Most of them had to do with entertainment packages, but there also many for education as well. Education packages included the Scott, Foresman series were the computer would say the numbers and letters to children, and for entertainment, there was Alpiner, Parsec, M*A*S*H, Star Trek, Microsurgeon, and many, many others. There are more than 373 words to choose from. In fact, with the Terminal Emulator II cartridge, you have unlimited "text-to-speech" capability. Literally anything you type in can be spoken. Sometimes you would have to make the the pronunciation spellings different in order for this to work, but mostly, it was fine. Extended BASIC was the only cartridge that limited "text-to-speech", but even then TI later released a "text-to-speech" diskette which would allow the user to type in anything (much like the Terminal Emulator II, and Speech Editor). I just picked up a Speech Editor cartridge for $20 from someone who was selling it along with other old TI stuff. Expect to pay this, or more for it - as it is rare. I just got it, and I can't even use it because I don't have the manual. Anyone have the manual for the TI Speech Editor cartridge? Bryan Nicalek bnicalek@aol.com From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 20 11:11:14 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: <19970320.083043.5303.0.classicjr@juno.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Jeffrey G. Rottman wrote: > Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped > into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. All to true... > Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are > collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the > story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, > maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. A good idea, but needs to be approached with some care. Remember, the mass media will only be interested in a story that will gain them ratings/$$$, so IF you manage to get them interested in most cases they will put their own spin on it toward that goal. (yes, I've had far too many dealings with the media in my various ventures) Popularity is NOT always a good thing! Case in point: I was reciently in the process of finalizing a deal to obtain some equipment that was, in the words of the person I was in communication with "inches away from the dumpster". This batch of gear included some microcomputers, including a 'Mark-8' and some IMSAIs. We were just making the arrangements for shipping when someone on their side came across an article in the New York Times on collecting and the value of older computers. In the text of the article is allegedly said (I have not seen the article) that early microcomputers were fetching sums of upwards of $25,000(US). Needless to say, the deal immediately collapsed and the person who was offering the gear is now either (1) still sitting on the stuff waiting for the money to roll in, -or- (2) happily spending the money of some one who actually believed the article! I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it! > Does anyone have connections to the National/World media about this?? Be afraid... Be VERY afraid! Me, I'm doing new board layouts and am planning to reconstruct a 'Mark-8' or two... Anyone else interested in a board set? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 12:02:00 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: ; from "James Willing" at Mar 20, 97 9:11 am Message-ID: <199703201802.8962@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> [...] > In the text of the article is allegedly said (I have not seen the article) > that early microcomputers were fetching sums of upwards of $25,000(US). What is crazy (IMHO) is that some machines seem to attract prices that are far too high for the type of machine. A case in point : About 10 years ago at a radio rally (hamfest), I could have bought either an Altair or an Intellec MCS8I. The Intellec was \pounds 10 more expensive, but appeared to be the more interesting and historically significant machine. It also had all the manuals with it, etc. It was getting late, and I couldn't afford both. I bought the Intellec. Of course now the Altair sells for very high prices (and I have no idea why), while Intellecs are almost worthless except to serious old computer enthusiasts like myself. So in a sense I lost a lot of money on that decision. Do I regret it? Not at all! The Intellec is the more interesting machine. I don't collect these computers as an investment - I collect them because I like old computers. I like to see how they work, how things changed over the years, etc. [...] > I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the > media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment > costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed > people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved > 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it! Absolutely. I was chatting to Wlodek Mier-J (An HP calculator enthusiast) shortly before he published his 'guide to HP calculators' (which is excellent, by the way). I was also worried that such a guide could cause the second-hand prices of such machines to become very high, and effectively cut a lot of people out of the hobby. He replied that this could be a result, but that his intended result was to make people realise that the 20-year-old HP calculators had a value, and that it was worth selling them to collectors rather than throwing them out. The prices he mentioned in the book are realistic, IMHO, and second-hand prices of most HP machines haven't gone up. However, that was a book written by an enthusiast for other enthusiasts. The general media want a good story (obviously) and will quite happily report that a particular machine sold for $25000 (or whatever). No matter that it wasn't _worth_ that much - it was just that the buyer, for whatever reason, wanted that particular machine. Of course the general public suddenly get the idea that _all_ old computers are valuable, and refuse to sell them for what enthusiasts consider realistic prices. I've heard of Sinclair ZX80's selling for \pounds 175.00. Would I pay that? Not at all - I could get a much more interesting machine for that sort of money - probably some kind of minicomputer or workstation. I've even heard of Science of Cambridge MK14's (Sinclair's first microcomputer) selling for \pounds 1000. Now, I'd not sell mine for that (it was my first ever computer, and I feel an attraction to it :-)), but I certainly wouldn't pay that for a second one. For the same money I could get some _very_ interesting hardware... > -jim -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 12:08:40 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: HH Tiger Message-ID: <199703201808.9364@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Does anyone know anything about a somewhat strange UK home computer called an HH Tiger? I believe the specification was : 6 MHz Z80B, 64K RAM, boot ROMs (was there a ROM basic?) 2MHz 68B09, 8K RAM, I/O ROM, RS232 port, parallel port, network interface (used the 6854), cassette interface NEC7220 graphics chip = 3 off 32K bitplanes. RGB TTL outputs to a monitor Built-in 1200/75 (Prestel) modem I believe it was designed by Tangerine, and would have been the Oric. It was sold to HH Electronics (who, AFAIK no longer exist), who never sold it (or who only sold it in small quantities). It appears to have been a nice machine - has anyone got any more info? -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From william at ans.net Thu Mar 20 12:14:12 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199703201814.AA06383@interlock.ans.net> > > Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped > > into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. > > All to true... Actually, most of them get sent overseas to get chopped up and recycled - pretty much the same fate in our eyes. > > Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are > > collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the > > story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, > > maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. > > A good idea, but needs to be approached with some care. Yes, I agree with all of the points made previously. I would like to add that advertising to the general public can leave you with mounds of requests/donations that need to be answered, and more people banging at your door. Most people can not tell a good classic computer (rarities, real oldies, etc.) from the common lot. To them, they are old computers that have been hidden in closets for ten years, and now may be worth money (cost escalation _will_ occur, as it has for every other kind of antique). When they come to you with a treasure, chances are that you will have five identical types already at home, and you will have to refuse the deal. This may be OK for the first few people, but it gets very tedious after the 20th person that asks you if you want to buy their Apple ][e. You get irritated from it (unless you have infinite patience), and they get disappointed that what they have is not a gem. Nobody walks away happy. The question you must ask yourself is "Do I want to expose myself to this, just so I can get that one prize in one hundred?". I have tried advertising in both niche publications and to the masses at the hamfests. Both ways have worked for me in my radio collecting hobby fairly well - I have made some deals for real gems. For the computer collecting side, however, advertising (generally with a carried sign) at the hamfests has been fruitless. My sign stated explicitly that I was looking for old minicomputers (DEC, DG, etc.) and old Sun equipment, yet I was still offered tons of Apple ][es. I just placed some feelers out on the net. I wonder how they will work. My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and probably will, backfire. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Thu Mar 20 12:33:41 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors In-Reply-To: <199703201814.AA06383@interlock.ans.net>; from "William Donzelli" at Mar 20, 97 1:14 pm Message-ID: <199703201833.10735@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Actually, most of them get sent overseas to get chopped up and recycled - > pretty much the same fate in our eyes. The only 'recycling' I want to apply to classic computers is what happens on a PERQ when you try to read memory data before the memory board is ready. The microcycle gets repeated until the memory board asserts the data available line, or in other words the microcode gets 'recycled' :-) > Most people can not tell a good classic computer (rarities, real oldies, > etc.) from the common lot. To them, they are old computers that have been > hidden in closets for ten years, and now may be worth money (cost > escalation _will_ occur, as it has for every other kind of antique). > When they come to you with a treasure, chances are that you will have five > identical types already at home, and you will have to refuse the deal. > This may be OK for the first few people, but it gets very tedious after > the 20th person that asks you if you want to buy their Apple ][e. You get Just occasionally it is worth grabbing yet another common machine. I was at an sale of test equipment, etc, and a DEC MINC (Modular Instrument Computer) turned up. Now, I already had 2 of them, and didn't really want a third (it's a PDP11/03 or 11/23 CPU + RAM + GPIB + serial ports + boot ROM + realtime I/O modules) _but_ this one had a thermocouple interface and a volts/amps/ohms preamplifier module in it. As it was very cheap I bought it for the modules. I did keep the rest of the machine, of course, in the end... I suspect that if you were offered an Apple ][ with some rare I/O cards (say an 9511 arithmetic coprocessor, a 6809 coprocessor, etc) you'd take it. Even if you then whipped out the rare cards and passed the rest of the machine on to another collector. Most people don't know what cards are in their machines, so it's always worth taking a look... > My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are > still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and > probably will, backfire. Agreed. It's probably best to keep hunting at radio rallies, charity shops, etc, and buy that which looks interesting... > William Donzelli -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Thu Mar 20 11:52:39 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? References: <199703201055.EAA10712@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: <33317967.43EB@oboe.calpoly.edu> Douglas Zander wrote: > Also, how many of you remember the old "pong" game that had the paddles > built into the unit? My family had one of those, I'd like to know where > it is now! :-) My brother still has one of those and I found one at the Goodwill for a couple bucks. They're still around but pretty rare. -- http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From CHEER at us.oracle.com Thu Mar 20 15:57:17 1997 From: CHEER at us.oracle.com (Christopher Heer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 Message-ID: <199703201858.KAA19308@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Captain Napalm sez: > At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it >might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and >today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to >scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary memory. > Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long >on the screen): > Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out. > I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before >going to alt.folklore.computers. > 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use > a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past > the bad CMOS? Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it. > 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the > ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V > Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface > 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs > are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm > wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. Depends on how you define "common" and "easily," but yeah, you should be able to find it and replace it. They last a long time, though; I'd resolve the config issue before replacing it. -- Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 Fax: (312) 726-4635 Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Thu Mar 20 12:09:14 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors References: Message-ID: <33317D4A.24F5@oboe.calpoly.edu> James Willing wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Jeffrey G. Rottman wrote: > > > Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped > > into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. > > All too true... > > > Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are > > collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the > > story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, > > maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. Believe me, the price/value of these machines will not go unnoticed for long. Right now you can go to the Salvation Army and start a collection for a few bucks. Around christmas time our Goodwill was full of old computers which were tossed out. They were snapped up by "collectors" as fast as they were put on the shelves. You have to be quick. As with all collectibles there will be those who collect them for their value and those who enjoy them. Look at the video game systems from the same era. They are becoming more popular without any media attention. Media attention IMHO will drive the prices up by calling them "collectible" or quoting ridiculous prices. Look at the prices paid by overseas collectors! I think collecting has reached a "fanatic" stage. I collect quite a few different things. Usually I start before the craze sets in. I buy what I like. In a few years, the prices soar and I wasn't "smart" enough to hoard all I could find and can't afford what I like any more. It's sad but true and it takes a lot of the fun out of the hobby. -- http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 20 13:41:17 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 In-Reply-To: <199703201858.KAA19308@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> from "Christopher Heer" at Mar 20, 97 01:57:17 pm Message-ID: <199703201941.OAA23962@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Christopher Heer once stated: > > Captain Napalm sez: > > > At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it > >might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and > >today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to > >scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. > > Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary > memory. Yup. Without any SIMMS, the system just sits there producing vast amounts of nothing quite fast. With memory installed, I get the bad CMOS error, then vast amounts of nothing quite fast. There are eight banks for memory. I have enough to fill two (2 4M 72 pin SIMMS from IBM). I don't think the memory is bad. I installed the simms starting from the wrong end the first time (hard to tell which end to start filling from). When I started from the other end, I got the error message. > > Upon turning the unit on, I get (if I recall - it doesn't stay very long > >on the screen): > > > Bad CMOS configuration blah blah yada yada > > > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. > > How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the > hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out. Oh, two minutes maybe. Nothing very long. > > I have some questions about the unit I figure I'd through out here before > >going to alt.folklore.computers. > > > 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use > > a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past > > the bad CMOS? > > Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be > proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it. Well, keyboards aren't a problem - I have several IBM ones. They set the standard, after all 8-) > > 2. The computer itself has a daughter board that contains the > > ROMs, a SmartBattery (DALLAS - DS1260-100 / 9816 / 3V > > Lithium battery), an Intel 8742 (Universal Peripheral Interface > > 8-bit Slave uController) and other neat features (the 8 LEDs > > are a nice touch). The Smart battery can be removed, but I'm > > wondering if it's a common item and is easily replaced. > > Depends on how you define "common" and "easily," but yeah, you should be able to > find it and replace it. They last a long time, though; I'd resolve the config > issue before replacing it. That is, if I can get it to say something other than bad CMOS. -spc (Sigh. Back to work) From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Mar 20 13:53:25 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 In-Reply-To: <199703201858.KAA19308@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970320145325.00876100@mail.northernway.net> At 01:57 PM 3/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >Captain Napalm sez: >> At an auction this past Saturday, I picked up a Zenith Z386-20 (okay, it >>might, just might, be 10 years old). It looks to be a decent system, and >>today is the first day I've been able to play around with it, as I had to >>scrape up some 72-pin SIMMS for memory. >Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary >memory. Well, I dunno about the rest of the world, but my geezer '286 Zenith took standard 30-pin parity memory. I did try non-parity memory... the monitor (over and over) just kept spitting up "Parity Error..." I have 3Megs in 'er now, looking to go to 6 (someday)... >> 1. It doesn't seem to even look at the keyboard. Do Zeniths use >> a proprietary keyboard, or is the POST routine not getting past >> the bad CMOS? > >Zeniths were, ISTR, slightly touchy about keyboards, but they didn't have to be >proprietary. Odds are something else is hanging it. I got what I thought was a bad keyboard with my Z... so I put el-cheapo on it and it works fine... Then when I tore apart my Z keyboard I found a little switch called "XT - AT".. If you have a switchable keyboard (on my Z there's a small removeable panel in the upper left corner [i believe... keyboard home, me work]) double-check it's on AT. Hope this helps! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From CHEER at us.oracle.com Thu Mar 20 16:55:03 1997 From: CHEER at us.oracle.com (Christopher Heer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Zenith Z386-20 Message-ID: <199703201959.LAA12613@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Captain Napalm sez: >It was thus said that the Great Christopher Heer once stated: >> Wow. 72 pin? Are you certain? In any case, ISTR older Zeniths taking proprietary >> memory. > Yup. Without any SIMMS, the system just sits there producing vast amounts >of nothing quite fast. With memory installed, I get the bad CMOS error, >then vast amounts of nothing quite fast. Well that's pretty ironclad. I doubt you're having a memory problem. >> > Then the screen goes blank and the system just sits there, fans spinning. >> How long? I mean, how long have you let it wait? If it's mis-configured on the >> hard disk, it could take simply ages to time out. > Oh, two minutes maybe. Nothing very long. Let it go longer. Sweartagod I've seen PC's take 15 minutes to error out. Also, if there's a hard disk controller installed, yank it. It may make it time out faster. And as someone else mentioned, Zenith was fond of using Ctrl-Alt-Ins as the keystroke combination to get into setup. Give that a go. -- Christopher D. Heer ORACLE Corporation Network Engineer III 203 N. La Salle Avenue #2000 Work: (312) 704-1676 Chicago, IL 60601 Fax: (312) 726-4635 Email: cheer@us.oracle.com Visualize Whirled Peas From jeffh at eleventh.com Tue Mar 18 13:48:36 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >> Also, how many of you remember the old "pong" game that had the paddles >> built into the unit? My family had one of those, I'd like to know where >> it is now! :-) >My brother still has one of those and I found one at the Goodwill for a couple >bucks. They're still around but pretty rare. I have a SuperPong, which is a console with the two paddle controllers built in, just as in Pong, but it is selectable between 4 different games. We bought this new somewhere in the 1977-78 time frame if I remember correctly. I entertained a 4 and 6 year old with it a couple weekends ago! Jeff Jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Tue Mar 18 14:01:18 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 20-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >There were many "Speech Synthesizer" modules released. Most of them had to >do with entertainment packages, but there also many for education as well. > Education packages included the Scott, Foresman series were the computer >would say the numbers and letters to children, and for entertainment, there >was Alpiner, Parsec, M*A*S*H, Star Trek, Microsurgeon, and many, many others. Actually, I was referring to the modules that were to plug into the Speech Synthesizer itself, beneath the flip-top. Numerous references mention them, and though on my Synthesizer, there isn't a connector in it for the module, I was wondering if maybe some early examples were shipped with one. Even the Speech Synthesizer manual mentions the cartridges. >There are more than 373 words to choose from. In fact, with the Terminal >Emulator II cartridge, you have unlimited "text-to-speech" capability. > Literally anything you type in can be spoken. Sometimes you would have to >make the the pronunciation spellings different in order for this to work, but >mostly, it was fine. Extended BASIC was the only cartridge that limited >"text-to-speech", but even then TI later released a "text-to-speech" diskette >which would allow the user to type in anything (much like the Terminal >Emulator II, and Speech Editor). I got the 373 word limit from the Synthesizer manual, though I've not counted up the words in the list it shows. I plan on playing with TE-II once I recieive the RS232 board for my PEBox. It'd be interesting having it speak the ascii data as it came across! >I just picked up a Speech Editor cartridge for $20 from someone who was >selling it along with other old TI stuff. Expect to pay this, or more for it >- as it is rare. I just got it, and I can't even use it because I don't have >the manual. That's fine with me...BTW, here's another question regarding the GROM cartridges. When did Atari begin making the arcade game cartridges for the TI-99/4A? Most people admit that TI didn't allow much 3rd party software to be produced initially, yet here is one of their competitors writing programs for it. I have the Donkey Kong and Pac Man cartridges, and they are both dated 1983. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From spc at armigeron.com Thu Mar 20 15:50:41 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... In-Reply-To: from "hellige" at Mar 19, 97 01:01:18 am Message-ID: <199703202150.QAA24192@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great hellige once stated: > > I got the 373 word limit from the Synthesizer manual, though I've not > counted up the words in the list it shows. I plan on playing with TE-II once > I recieive the RS232 board for my PEBox. It'd be interesting having it speak > the ascii data as it came across! That might get real old, real quick. One of the comm programs on the Amiga allows you to pipe the data stream through the narrator device, and for kicks, I tried it. Once. Even piping the output of programs to the narrator device was entertaining for about 20 minutes or so ... -spc ("Sun-day-March-three-one-nine-nine-one-foo-dot-bar-three-seven-star star-star-break-Amiga-Prompt ... ") From BigLouS at aol.com Thu Mar 20 21:45:59 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors Message-ID: <970320224553_1452418268@emout20.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-20 13:55:54 EST jimw@agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) wrote: > I guess my base fear here is that if we actually managed to get the > media's attention, a few major stories like this might drive the equipment > costs to high (note I said COSTS, not VALUE) that only deep pocketed > people with no real interest in the equipment other than its percieved > 'value' would be able to afford to obtain it! Well said. Publicity is not always a good thing. imw@agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) also wrote: Me, I'm doing new board layouts and am planning to reconstruct a 'Mark-8' or two... Anyone else interested in a board set? I might be, post some details. Lou From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 20 22:25:50 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Hello all! References: <199703191648.JAA12906@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <33320DCD.2C8B@goldrush.com> Jim wrote: > > If you can find a book called Basic Computer Games by David Ahl (I think there > were about 4 volumes, actually, but I have volume 1) > I know of three volumes by David Ahl, BASIC COMPUTER GAMES, MORE BASIC COMPUTER GAMES and BIG COMPUTER GAMES (the third seem to be direct re-prints of games articles published in Creative Comuting judging from the artwork and copy layout.) There are also the Best of Creative Computing (I think 3 volumes were done) which include alot of nifty discussion on different sorting techniques and the like, a pity such 'BASIC' things are not as accessible to today's youth (everything is coded in the high-level languages of today...). > > Some of the games are very short - a dozen lines or so. Others, like > Star Trek mentioned above, are hundreds. To tell the truth I don't know > really how much programming I learned with it, except when we were > hacking the sound routines into Trek, of course, but they're good > books with good games. > I agree it is a good way to learn some tricks and stuff, but do have a BASIC guide (that describes commands and such) for your particular syustem, as many of the programs have commands that may not work the same on all machines (The front of the books usually have tips on converting the programs to many popular computers of the time). Larry Anderson From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 20 23:01:10 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Let people know about collectors References: <199703201814.AA06383@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: <33321615.671C@goldrush.com> William Donzelli wrote: > > My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are > still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and > probably will, backfire. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net I agree, there are alot of lazy people out there trying to make a fast buck, if they even had the hint of possible cash from their VIC-20 they would be banging on your door demanding you pay them $300 for the thing. Take for instance, baseball cards, you know those thin pieces of cheap to decent quality CARDBOARD, or dolls, or old toys, etc. Just be glad no one has compiled a list or a sellers/buyers guide my friends! The post about the Altair skyrocketing is probably due to the hype generated by Steve Levy's Hackers as well as the media about the Altair being 'the first home computer', I've notiuced a bunch of ya-hoos on the internet looking for their bit of computer history (which they never experienced till they got their IBM clone and they probably well be dissapointed to learn that they can't even run Lotus on it.) I get computers mainly because I ran a Commodore Group and am the area's contact for Commodore information, so people come up and ask me, 'hey you got any use for a ???' I usually say no, I collect them but am too broke to buy em; they ususually give em to me, (thanks mainly to my assistance I had provided in years past). Also thrift shops and used bookstores, some bookstores will toss the older computer books (after being burned by all those punched-card machine texts floding them years back), so make sure you let them know you appreciate them having the older micro books. Larry Anderson From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Mar 20 23:11:31 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: TI Speech Synthesizer question... References: <199703202150.QAA24192@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <33321883.7B55@goldrush.com> Captain Napalm wrote: > > > That might get real old, real quick. One of the comm programs on the > Amiga allows you to pipe the data stream through the narrator device, and > for kicks, I tried it. Once. > > Even piping the output of programs to the narrator device was entertaining > for about 20 minutes or so ... > > -spc ("Sun-day-March-three-one-nine-nine-one-foo-dot-bar-three-seven-star > star-star-break-Amiga-Prompt ... ") One gem that took me about ten years to aquire after seeing the initial ad was an Alien Voicebox voice synthesiser (was initially available for the Commodore and Atari as I remember). An extrnal voice unit that plugs into the Commodore's parallel port, the nifty thing about the Voicebox was there was so much control to it and the voice was not software based like the Amiga or SAM. The most amazing companion disk is the music disk where you can compose a three voice piece for the Commodore and have the Voicebox SING along! Does a pretty darn good job; the Amazing Grace and Star Spangled Banner are well done. Larry Anderson From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 21 00:07:40 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Any ORIC owners here? Message-ID: <199703210607.WAA00667@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 348 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970320/1c1ad877/attachment-0001.ksh From mhop at snip.net Fri Mar 21 00:00:48 1997 From: mhop at snip.net (mhop) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Atari 800xe ? Message-ID: <19970321071732661.AAB104@computer-name> > Common European Computer (esp. Germany): > > Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe) > Really? There was the 800, 800lx, and the 130xe. I think I heard of a 600ex game system, but I never heard of an 800ex. What are its specs? mhop@snip.net From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 01:29:23 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Laser500 In-Reply-To: <01BC344E.4EE364B0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, Stefan Walgenbach wrote: > >> Laser 50, Laser 2000, Sinlair QL, > > ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > Now THESE machines interest me. Why? Because I am the proud owner of a > > Laser 3000 from Video Technologies Ltd. Are the 50 and the 2000 from > > the same company? The only other machines from them that I've heard of > > are the VZ200 and the Laser 128 (I think they were?). > > are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box > with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case. Well, my source for this info was the March, 1983 issue of COMPUTE! magazine, in the article entitled "New Home Computers At The Winter Consumer Electronics Show": "....Three new computers reatiling for $99 were shown at the show, including the first one with color. The colour model is the VZ200, the first home computer from Video Technologies Ltd., a company with two factories in Hong Kong. Promised for delivery by April, the VZ200 comes with 4K of RAM, expandable to 16K ($45) or 64K (price not yet determined)...." > I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible machine, or is it something entirely different? I'd like instructions on how to use the SOUND, NOISE, SOUND DEF, and SOUND TEMPO extended BASIC commands if you have such information. Also PAINT, as I haven't yet figured out the syntax for that one, either. LASER Tapes? Did the Laser use something other than standard audio cassettes? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Fri Mar 21 02:00:01 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Atari 800xe ? Message-ID: <01BC35D5.DC776690@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> -----Original Message----- From: mhop [SMTP:mhop@snip.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 8:21 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Atari 800xe ? >> Common European Computer (esp. Germany): >> >> Atari 800XE (common in eastern europe) >> > > Really? There was the 800, 800lx, and the 130xe. I think I heard of a > 600ex game system, but I never heard of an 800ex. What are its specs? I have a 800XE new in the box for ex. east germany. It looks like a 130XE but has only 64kB. If you are interested in further details I can check the instuction booklet. Anyone interested in 800XEs? I can try to get hold of some ... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2713 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970321/1c4a2aa3/attachment-0001.bin From kevan at motiv.co.uk Fri Mar 21 02:01:22 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <9703191922.AA03982@aztec.asu.edu> Message-ID: <199703210801.IAA08333@cream.motiv.co.uk> Have people seen the "Comprehensive Computer Catalogue"? It currently lists 2863 computers. The URL is: http://columbia.digiweb.com/~hansp/ccc/ Unfortunately it hasn't been updated for about a year now, and I have not been able to contact the author about this because I would like to take over the running of the catalogue. I have sort of made a start to this by transforing the HTML pages into a CSV file ready for import into a database. It will not take me long to knock together a bit of Python to output some HTML pages. I would also like to add fields to the database so any ideas are welcome. Kevan Old Computer Collector: From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 02:01:39 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970319114040.00f908c4@lion.documentum.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997, George Lin wrote: > Hi all, > > I picked up a very nice Osborne 1 from a local thrift store yesterday. The > system powers up. Everything looks good. However, I don't have the boot > disk. I tried the CP/M boot disk from my Kaypro II. No good. If I Hey! I currently have a similar problem. I brought a Kaypro II home recently (last week? I've forgotten already) and although it had a boot disk in the drive, it wasn't an OS disk, and I can't format disks or other boot disks. And the disk that was in the drive (a pirate copy of WordStar) is flaky. I transferred FORMAT.COM and SYSGEN.COM from my TeleVideo system, but they gave me little more than the (C)1982 TeleVideo Systems message before hanging the Kaypro. > remember correctly, the disk drives on old CP/M machines are not compatible > with each other even though the binaries are. It looks like that I need an > Osborne formatted CP/M boot disk. Does anyone know where I can get one? Seek out the comp.os.cpm FAQ. There is information in there on how to get boot disks for CP/M systems. I'm still hoping to find someone with a Kaypro II locally. I generally sit on these things for a while to see what turns up before becoming really active in seeking things out. In case you can't get the Osborne disk anywhere else (doubtful) I do know a chap who ran a BBS on an Osborne until recently. He should have what you're looking for. I could bug him to send you one if you send the relevant information to me in e-mail. > Also, it would be nice to get a CP/M communication software on an Osborne > formatted disk so that I can start transferring other CP/M software to it. You should be able to also xfer software to the Osborne with a utility for the PC called 22disk. Get it at: oak.oakland.edu: /pub/msdos/diskutil/22dsk142.zip I've used it a couple of times myself (in fact that's how I got those files from my TeleVideo to the Kaypro) but you need an IBM-compatible PC with a 5.25" disk drive (preferably 360K) which is something I don't have. I actually had to open up my father's PC to plug in a 5.25" drive just for that one operation. :/ > In the same store, I picked up a Peripheral Expansion Box for my TI 99/4A. > It comes with 1 floppy disk drive, 32K memory expansion, serial adapter, > and flex cable adapter. However, the fuse and the cap that holds the fuse > in place are gone. Does anyone know the specification for the fuse or know > where I can get a replacement for it and the cap? Heh. This also sounds familiar. I have a CBM 2040 drive, sans fuse and cap. I know at least one of the drive units works, as I got a directory from a 1541 disk on my PET while holding a screwdriver in the fuse socket. Don't do this at home. :) > Any help is greatly appreciated. > > George > -- > George Lin "Accelerating your business through > Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." > Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com > Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int > My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From walgen at do.isst.fhg.de Fri Mar 21 02:09:13 1997 From: walgen at do.isst.fhg.de (Stefan Walgenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Laser500 Message-ID: <01BC35D7.2579A0A0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> -----Original Message----- From: Doug Spence [SMTP:ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca] Sent: Friday, March 21, 1997 8:34 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Laser500 >> are you sure the VZ200 is from Video Technologies? I have one new in box >> with 16kB RAM but there is no reference to Video Technologies on the case. > Well, my source for this info was the March, 1983 issue of COMPUTE! > magazine, in the article entitled "New Home Computers At The Winter > Consumer Electronics Show": > "....Three new computers reatiling for $99 were shown at the show, > including the first one with color. > The colour model is the VZ200, the first home computer from Video > Technologies Ltd., a company with two factories in Hong Kong. Promised > for delivery by April, the VZ200 comes with 4K of RAM, expandable to 16K > ($45) or 64K (price not yet determined)...." That sounds correct - HongKong is mentioned on the box. Maybe Video Technologies was a unkown name at this time. I have the 16k-Ram Expansion card you mention so it looks like that this announce was not completely vapourous ... >> I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? > > Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible > machine, or is it something entirely different? I will check this but I this it has a Z80 ... >>I'd like instructions on >how to use the SOUND, NOISE, SOUND DEF, and SOUND TEMPO extended BASIC >commands if you have such information. Also PAINT, as I haven't yet >figured out the syntax for that one, either. sorry I don't have a single line of doc for my machines. > LASER Tapes? Did the Laser use something other than standard audio > cassettes? No I don't think so - but they have made a special cassett-player. Does anyone know how to load a file from a tape with a LASER? Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3600 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970321/6fc6bd46/attachment-0001.bin From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 02:17:22 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: how many old comps are dumped? In-Reply-To: <199703201055.EAA10712@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Douglas Zander wrote: > Hello, > I was just wondering how many old computers do you think get dumped in > the landfill each year? Do people realize that there are collectors out > there for these old computers? I suspect that an awful lot do get dumped. The reason I suspect this is that even a store I went to that dealt in old 8-bit hardware was dumping the more interesting systems and only keeping stuff that was somewhat profitable for them (Apple ][, C64, Atari ST, Amiga). I only went to the store once (*hated* the prices and the staff) but while there I was told that a complete, functioning CBM 8032 system with 8250 drive unit had been tossed into the dumpster behind the store, because someone had brought it in and the store staff didn't think they'd be able to sell it. I should probably have made a point of making regular visits after that, to ensure that such atrocities did not get repeated, but the store was well out of my way and I didn't have the time. I did get a CardBoard for the VIC-20, though, that was on its way to the trash that day, with a Quick Brown Fox cart still plugged into it. > Also, how many of you remember the old "pong" game that had the paddles > built into the unit? My family had one of those, I'd like to know where > it is now! :-) Sorry, I don't have it! ;) > -- > Douglas Zander | many things interest me, too many to list > dzander@solaria.sol.net | here. if you want a profile :-) why not > Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA | send me a letter? tell me about yourself, > "Over-looking Lake Michigan." | I'll tell you about myself. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 21 03:00:40 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Laser computers from VTL In-Reply-To: <01BC35D7.2579A0A0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Stefan Walgenbach wrote: > That sounds correct - HongKong is mentioned on the box. Maybe Video > Technologies was a unkown name at this time. I have the 16k-Ram Expansion > card you mention so it looks like that this announce was not completely > vapourous ... There's actually five complete paragraphs in the article dealing with the VZ200 and Video Technologies Ltd. which I could type in if you're interested. It was VTL's first computer, so indeed they may not have been well known yet. I actually hadn't heard of them until I found my Laser 3000 in a thrift shop. > >> I have four LASER 500 with LASER Tapes. Anyone heard of these? > > > > Well, obviously I haven't. :) Is the Laser 500 an Apple-compatible > > machine, or is it something entirely different? > > I will check this but I this it has a Z80 ... Well, nope, that wouldn't be Apple-compatible! My Laser 3000 is Apple compatible. Sort of. But the thing has a very "prototype" feel to it. There are several bugs in the BASIC, some software decisions that weren't too bright, and when I had to open it to fix the power supply (a wire from the socket into the PS had actually worked loose!) I noticed what looked like hand soldering and some "corrections" with pieces of wire going between pins of chips. Ewww! :) Also the colour set it displays in the extended graphics modes seems to depend on the phase of the moon. Not for the basic 8 colours, but for "mixed" colours made with alternating pixels... something I wouldn't normally consider "legal", but for an Apple clone is positivily FANTASTIC! :) Oh, there are some hardware bugs, too, dealing with the graphics modes. And I'm not entirely convinced that the sound chip is completely accessible. If Video Technologies always made systems like this... well, interesting, but a bit shoddy. :) > sorry I don't have a single line of doc for my machines. Nor do I, but I always hope. I've made some docs of my own for the L3000. > Does anyone know how to load a file from a tape with a LASER? On my Laser 3000, it's done in the same way as on the Apple ][. You even have to get into the monitor to load machine language files. I was actually testing software on it by loading it on the Apple from disk, finding the starting address and length, and saving to cassette. The Laser's cassette in was connected to the Apple's cassette out, with an amplifier between. That worked well, and quite a lot of the games I tried worked. A lot of my old BASIC programs didn't work, though. :/ Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 21 08:28:56 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Laser computers from VTL In-Reply-To: References: <01BC35D7.2579A0A0@odie.do.isst.fhg.de> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970321092856.0082d270@mail.northernway.net> At 04:00 AM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Stefan Walgenbach wrote: >Also the colour set it displays in the extended graphics modes seems to >depend on the phase of the moon. Not for the basic 8 colours, but for >"mixed" colours made with alternating pixels... something I wouldn't >normally consider "legal", but for an Apple clone is positivily >FANTASTIC! :) The "mixed" colors are created thru a phenomenon called "color artifacting." This happens when you try to display thin (vertical usually) white lines on a color TV. The TV cannot show lines that thin on the phosphor grid, so you end up activating only the (usually) blue or red pixels. The Color Computer 1 / 2 had the same "problem" and many programs for this took advantage of this to show color for the highest-resolution which was monochrome. I think it's the phase of the video sync that changes with respect to the TV that makes the colors swap... Many of the CoCo programs that used this technique actually remapped the reset key so it would re-enter the program, and showed a test screen with 2 boxes and "this should be blue" under one and "this should be red" under the other. You just kept resetting the computer (without having to re-load the pgm every time) until the colors synced correctly. Helpful for RPG's that said "you need the blue key..." Of course, when we "geeks" upgraded to the RGB monitor on the CoCo 3, we lost all color artifacting... and the games became almost totally unplayable. (No! You need the *other* white-striped key!) ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu Fri Mar 21 09:12:44 1997 From: jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Compaq Model III, anyone? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970319000419.00719378@mail.mcja.com> from "Brian Boys" at Mar 18, 97 04:04:19 pm Message-ID: <199703211512.KAA10280@saturn.ee.nd.edu> > > Would anyone like to have (ie, for FREE) a Compaq Model III? > It's one of those newfangled 286s, but it does have a cool fold-out LCD > screen. The 5 1/2 floppy works but the hard drive is doubtful. > > If you're interested e-mail me to figure out how to get it to you. > > Brian > bboys@mcja.com > > If you still have it, I am interested. John Ott ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 11:00:07 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > If you feel that a seperate list is > > still a good idea, BMG, but I'd like to see a list of "history" Web > > sites and how good you think they are. The links section on the CCL web page is growing daily and will start to be commented before long. If any of you know of good sites - let me know and I'll add those too. > Firstly, the various web sites are all in different formats, making it > difficult to make comparisons. Perhaps you cannot even find the > information you are interested in. If we make our own list, we can decide > together what information we need and put it together in a standardized > way. This would also facilitate sorting. Say that I want to know what > micros with at least 64K RAM existed before the C64 was released. I wish > you good luck if you want to hunt this information down on the web sites > and present it in a uniform fashion. Also, having a nice complete list can be an asset to people doing history sites / nostalgia sites on these computers. Rather than being in competition with existing information I see a list as a way to help bring the whole WWW mess together. > Thirdly (and in my opinion most importantly) you can never say for sure > what web sites are still there tomorrow. Maintainers move and take their > pages with them, or they may decide that they no longer have the time or > resources to keep it up, or the archives may be reorganized and all links > end up in void, or an ISP may go belly-up, or... And after all, this is a University Job I've got so even if I leave I can probably shove the whole thing onto some student :)) Regardless of mertit, the list almost ready to get going ;). Dan Tucker (of this list) has done some great html work and I think the result will be much more useful that what I first envisioned. Every- body say "Thanks, Dan!" I'll post again when thigs are ready to go. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 11:08:13 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Whoops! Message-ID: Y'know, every once in a while you shoot out a message and immediatly realize you just did something embarrasing. And there's not a damn thing you can do ;). I just said to thank Dan Tucker for the html work on the comp list. And within seconds of pressing send remembered that actually it's a shared mailbox and the guy I've been chatting with for that last few days is, in fact - Brett Crapser. So, everybody say "Thanks, Brett!" And I'll go bury my head in the sand :x Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 11:13:24 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Whoops! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > Y'know, every once in a while you shoot out a message and > immediatly realize you just did something embarrasing. And > there's not a damn thing you can do ;). That's OK Bill. Dan can't even set the clock on his VCR 8-) But he does make some nice Videos. By the way - Do you hold down "Clock" while press "hour" or "minute" 8-) BC From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 11:38:53 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok people! I am setting up a test run for the following times - (Gulp) Saturday 14:00 CST to 16:00 CST (that's -6 GMT) Testing for data entry - Please email me if you have suggestions or problems. Sunday 10:00 CST to 12:00 CST Testing for automatic page generation - I will be watching 8-) Sunday 18:00 CST to 20:00 CST If everything is OK, we will be accepting LIVE data. I expect this all to be moved to the CCL web page area - if they can handle it. I don't expect to lose any data, even during the trial runs and will be converting pages on the fly - so to speak. I have not completed some of the search routines, some of you wanted more data flexability than I can give - right now 8-) Currently I am running Matt Wright's Search engine and I want to modify it - give me some ideas! You can look at what's there (only the Rainbow that - sorry - someone supplied on the list. I have modified some of the data but it is basically pretty freeform. If you have pics online, there is a place to put your URL for them. I am currently trying to think of a way to have more than one per page 8-( (the problem is the modification of existing pages) The URL is - http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/index.html There is no link to it from the main page. PLEASE PLEASE BE GENTLE!!!!!! 8-) BC From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 13:04:54 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: S-100 Lovers! Old Digital Research Operating Systems(fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm >From: gee@linda.teleport.com (Chuck Gee) Date: 21 Mar 1997 10:48:15 -0800 Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access (503) 220-1016 S100 cards for sale. Make offer. ================================= This is my second posting of this ad. The first time around, about 1/2 of the cards found new homes. Since these are the leftovers, I am willing to consider any reasonable offer. Most have no documentation, but have been removed from working systems (mostly from a BBS I once ran). If you live in the Northwest, these are located in Corvallis, Oregon, and you can get to them any weekday. Otherwise, UPS ground prefered. quantity part# mfg. desc. ======== ===== ==== ===== 3 INTERFACER 3 GODBOUT/COMPUPRO 8 CHANNEL SERIAL 1/O (1 interfacer 3 technical manual included) ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 PWA.05-00060 MOUNTAIN COMPUTER 100,000 DAY CLOCK ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 RAM 21 GODBOUT ELECTRONICS 64K X 16 RAM CARD ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 CPU 86/87 GODBOUT 8086-1 CPU CARD ---------------------------------------------------------------- 2 SYSTEM SUPPORT 1 COMPUPRO I/O, CLOCK,MATH, INT, ETC.. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 UFDC-1 COMPU/TIME FLOPPY DISK CONTROLLER ---------------------------------------------------------------- 5 SCP400B,C SEATTLE COMPUTER MULTIPORT SERIAL CARD ---------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Suntronics Co., inc CLOCK/CALENDAR ================================================================ I also have the following manuals that I will send off for the price of shipping, or will include with some/all of the above cards. Digital Research CP/M-86 Operating System User's Guide -- Digital Research Concurrent CP/M User's Guide/Utilities Guide -- Gifford Computer Systems Multiuser Concurrent DOS User's Manual (includes a pile of 8" diskettes) ================================================================= 6 assorted S-100 motherboards ================================================================= A "pile" of 14 assorted S100 cards that have never been used by me and are untested. I picked them up (used) for future use, but never got around to firing them up. Their condition is unknown, and I'd like to sell them as one batch. They've been sitting in my warehouse for 15 years, and are pretty dusty. ================================================================= Please contact me at gee@teleport.com if interested in any of the above. Thanks... ========================================================================== For an Online, Interactive Science-Fiction Adventure, please point your browser to: http://www.teleport.com/~gee/oiin.html ========================================================================== -- gee@teleport.com Hope someone can use this - before it gets chucked that is 8-) BC From MTapley at swri.edu Fri Mar 21 01:20:00 1997 From: MTapley at swri.edu (MTapley@swri.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: Brett, I couldn't help myself (and besides, I won't have web-acess this weekend) and looked already. This is gonna be way, way, way cool. I have some minor questions/suggestions. 1) Check those features/dates/etc I posted for the Rainbow with somebody who actually knows. I have not done so, and they were just from my often-flaky memory. Some real Rainbow expert should please chime in here and set me straight on whatever I missed. 2) There actually does exist a Rainbow web site. Under construction at the moment, its url is: http://b61984.student.cwru.edu/rainbow.htm Can users just enter a link like that instead of a link to an image? Or can you add a field for that kind of link? 3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info? In any case, *thanks* for setting this up. I am really looking forward to browsing this site. - Mark From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Mar 21 13:46:30 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970321144630.0089c4a0@mail.northernway.net> At 07:20 AM 3/21/97 UTC, you wrote: >Brett, Hey... I just remembered where there is another old computer database... AAMOF, I submitted the information about the CoCo 3 to the guy who runs it... Check out this URL: http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~axc/MACHINE-ROOM/welcome.html the Database isn't overly huge, and doesn't have database, or auto-add, or any of that jazz, but it's got a beautiful layout and some really strange machines in it (including a pic & listing for the Video Technology Laser 200... Send a mail to Alex (full name: Alexios Chouchoulas) at: machroom@vennea.demon.co.uk to know more, or submit some info about a particular machine to him as well. Now, before everyone blows a cork, I'm certainly not trying to show up Brett or anyone, and to some personal experience in the matter, I'm 2000% in favor of having a backup of just about everything, including mailing lists. Besides, no one site is going to be able to cover every single computer out there, etc. etc. etc. However, with some cooperation, we can make sure that a lot of this information won't fall by the wayside if someone decides not to keep up their site... If that happens, communication will help save us if we *know* there's someone else we can rely on to help keep info available. Enough rambling, anyway, Brett: gnarly list! CoCo listing looks good! I'll add a link to it on my page when I get a chance. (read: the second Tuesday of next week.... I are a bizzy boi) Roger Out, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 13:50:57 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 MTapley@swri.edu wrote: > Brett, > I couldn't help myself (and besides, I won't have web-acess this > weekend) and looked already. Just to let all of you know - I am sneaky 8-) I know you were - I saw you You made me look because the counter went up - but no new page! > This is gonna be way, way, way cool. I hope so! > I have some minor questions/suggestions. > > 1) Check those features/dates/etc I posted for the Rainbow with somebody who > actually knows. I have not done so, and they were just from my often-flaky > memory. Some real Rainbow expert should please chime in here and set me > straight on whatever I missed. I know, This has be a slight thorn for me. I certainly don't know about EVERY computer EVER made. This is something that will take time. But facts don't change and eventually everything will get ironed out. > 2) There actually does exist a Rainbow web site. Under construction at the > moment, its url is: http://b61984.student.cwru.edu/rainbow.htm > Can users just enter a link like that instead of a link to an image? Or can > you add a field for that kind of link? That is what the Support area is about. If you know how to do HTML, you can actually enter the URL yourself. I do not magically make the new pages appear yet (security BS - you know) so I can check these things out. I think from the CoCo entry now available, that I may have made the size and amount of data *a leetle too small*. That's what the testing is all about. Show me where I went wrong and how I can fix it. > 3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent > net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each > computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the > responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or > maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info? Ya I been kinda worried about that too. I really don't want to do it and I'm PRETTY sure Bill doesn't (correct me if I'm wrong Bill 8-) I don't like the idea that - just anybody - could change it. They could just add a new page anyway 8-) and then email from those *offended* 8-) could be used to straighten it out. > In any case, *thanks* for setting this up. I am really looking forward > to browsing this site. > - Mark Time will tell! BC From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 14:29:05 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > 3) How does info get edited? Is it locked once entered (to prevent > > net.vandalism or well-intentioned but incorrect "corrections")? Maybe each > > computer web page can be changed only by emailing you, and is put under the > > responsibility of a single volunteer to make sure what's there is correct? Or > > maybe just put in an edit facility so anybody who so desires can add info? > > Ya I been kinda worried about that too. I really don't want to do it and > I'm PRETTY sure Bill doesn't (correct me if I'm wrong Bill 8-) I don't > like the idea that - just anybody - could change it. They could just add > a new page anyway 8-) and then email from those *offended* 8-) could be > used to straighten it out. Well, I've been chewing this over... I don't mind doing the changes when they come up. As with everything else I am slow - but I'm going to assume that, for the most part, initial information will be accurate and changes will be relatively minor. It may take a week or two for things to get updated, but if everyone can live with that - just send changes to me. Also, it sounds like the Encyclopedia is going to be housed on the CCL site before too long so you all might not want to go linking it just yet. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 21 16:54:15 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 18, 97 01:44:17 pm Message-ID: <199703212254.RAA27244@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Whitson once stated: > > One step ahead of me already! When I was playing with the potential > ClassicCmp web site last night I set aside an area for a project like > this. If people are interested I'll be happy to collect and compile > listings and post them up. Be aware that 1. I am the world worst > HTML scripter and 2. I do all ClassicCmp work on my break. So, it > will be ugly and slowly put together ;). > This is just a suggestion, but you might want to add an availability field, something like: Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very many. Connection Machines, Crays, and the Apple I fall into this catagory. You will almost never find one "in the wild" so to speak. Rare - Only made for a year or so. Quite a bit were made, but are hard to find. An Apple Lisa, or Altair would fit this catagory. Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually have to hunt around, but persistence pays off. Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not fall into this catagory (IMHO). Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be here (again IMHO). Abundant - the era of the PClone. Can't go to a thrift store, auction, ham fest, etc without finding hundreds if not thousands of old units. Mostly noname brands. -spc (Just my two bytes worth ... ) From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 17:20:07 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Regular Post: Mailing Lists Message-ID: ClassicCmp Regular Posting Mailing Lists and How to Talk to the List Robot This message is posted with frequency proportional to subscription rate (or monthly). Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. How to Talk to the Robot There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message to listproc@u.washington.edu. In the body of the message (not the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands. Then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages rather than each as it is posted. With this option you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. That's the basics. If you need to know more just drop me a line at bcw@u.washington.edu. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 17:20:46 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:01 2005 Subject: Regular Posting: FAQ Message-ID: ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.0 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisments? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection (just hoarding), restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? Any computer that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson. I'm a network administrator at the University of Washington. This is one of my hobbies and I got tired of waiting for someone else to create a list like this. I can be reached at bcw@u.washington.edu. 1.5 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. Damn straight. That's what the internet's all about. 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames? Yep. Lots of bulky computer folks here. 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't post repeatedly. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 200, fluxing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Don't bother asking me. If you really want to know go ahead and post to the list. I really don't know what having a number will do for you... 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then , precisely as much as I'll pay for it. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collectors tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes. Save a computer! Act now! Remind you wife of the rhino and cuter, furrier animals. It might work. From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Fri Mar 21 18:06:22 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Digests Message-ID: Due to popular demand digesting has been enabled. Furthermore, it has been changed since this morning from weekly to daily distribution. Digests will be sent at 23:59 each day. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Fri Mar 21 20:51:42 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like: > Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very > many. How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. > Rare - Only made for a year or so. I'd put into this category the Classic DEC PDP-8, and orginal Data General Novas. PDP-12s might go here (production run of ~1000). > Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. I'm speculating at this point, but I'd tend to lump Prime equipment and Interdata gear in this one. You can find them, but it's a lucky find. Later Novas and Eclipses might fit here. > Common - Fairly easy to find. DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be made for the 11/20 to fall into the "uncommon" classification. This class is especially appropriate for early- to mid- life 11s. > Abundant - the era of the PClone. Can't go to a thrift > store, auction, ham fest, etc without finding > hundreds if not thousands of old units. This is a level of concentration that you'll never find with mini- computers. In this class, I'd tend to place late-life-cycle pdp11s, like the 11/84 and up, and various classes of small VAXen. Note that in many cases these machines are still performing their assigned tasks and may not be de-commissioned for several years to come. I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro- based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks, through their study of machines' history, become aware of what is now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago. Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also good to sit in front of the blinking lights and work switches to program the machine. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From jeffh at eleventh.com Wed Mar 19 04:23:12 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Printer Ribbon Source Message-ID: This is for all of you that are searching for obsolete printer ribbons. I found ribbons for my Commodore MPS-803 printer at the following web page, and they seem to have a pretty good selection and range. It is 'Universal Ribbon and Imaging Products: Computer Ribbons' and theURL is: http://www.unirib.com/doc/comprib.htm Hope this helps for those of you that were in need of a source for hard to find ribbons. Jeff -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From danjo at xnet.com Fri Mar 21 21:56:31 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > > > but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good > Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like: > > How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? > Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard > Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. Well, heck, Carl - stick them in then! Hell-o I have a PDP-11/23! And I'm writing the list! I just don't have the memory any more (my neurons are failing faster than my MSV11-DBs!) BC From BigLouS at aol.com Fri Mar 21 22:21:00 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Atari 800xe ? Message-ID: <970321232100_-1739195729@emout02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-03-21 03:01:19 EST, you write: > Anyone interested in 800XEs? I can try to get hold of some ... I certainly would be. Lou From zmerch at northernway.net Sat Mar 22 10:06:26 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970322104458.00a3fa70@mail.northernway.net> At 05:54 PM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually > have to hunt around, but persistence pays off. > Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not > fall into this catagory (IMHO). > > Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be > here (again IMHO). Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are *much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the most what one owns or has owned. Dumb kid: "What the heck kinda car is that... it looks funny." Grandpa: "Son, that's a '47 Pontiac (or Mercury, or... insert personal favorite here) with a xxx V-8 engine & bla, bla, bla. I used to have one of those in my heyday, when I was a ..........." [[a week passes, same car]] Dumb kid: "What the heck kinda car is that... it looks funny....." My point is there was an immense production of the Color Computer (there must... I own 3 myself) and in my little town of 14,000, I can name people who still own and use them, but the last Amiga I saw in this town was almost 10 years ago. Mind you, I'm not saying they're not around... I'm saying I don't see/take note of them, because I prefer Color Computers... You have a good suggestion, but I think that instead of just an arbitrary listing of who notices what or what might never be seen in a particular region (Amigas in Sault Ste. Marie, Color Computers in the Ukraine, ad nauseum...) that it should be based on actual production statistics when available. I can give you one bit of information: The Tandy Color Computer line was in production longer than any other 8-bit (and some 16-bit) home computer. Anywho, that's my $0.00000002 (that's all it's worth), FWIW, which ain't much. Thanks for the bandwidth, Roger "Merch" Merchberger Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* | until I find some new wisdom to share. From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 10:15:04 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org>; from "Carl R. Friend" at Mar 21, 97 9:51 pm Message-ID: <199703231615.22692@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > > > but you might want to add an availability field [for (in the good > Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like: > > > Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very > > many. > > How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? > Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard > Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger? Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. > > Common - Fairly easy to find. > > DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be Processors, maybe, but some of the peripherals are a lot rarer. How many people have heard of the DX11-B (IBM 360 or 370 channel interface for the PDP11), let alone seen one or the schematics to it? [...] > > I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing > life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro- > based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks, Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros (particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer equipment. If you have the space to run one (and it's not that much, actually), then a minicomputer is a very nice thing to have in a collection. You can learn a lot about the operation of a digital computer by taking one of the simpler minicomputers (I would not recomend starting with a PDP11/45, even though I did!) and figuring out exactly how it works. You can watch the control signals using almost any 'scope, particularly if you slow down the clock a bit. > through their study of machines' history, become aware of what is > now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago. > Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also The PERQ (sorry to keep on mentioning what I consider to be one of the finest machines ever made) has a minicomputer-like CPU (260+ chips, 74S181 ALUs, 2910 sequencer, etc) that you can get amongst together with a hi-res bitmapped display. > | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 10:45:49 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) Message-ID: <33355E3D.34B@mich.com> Hello all, Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for developers to develop hardware and software based on their microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel. An interesting point of trivia is that Gary Kildall originally developed CP/M on the first 8080-based MDS called an Intellec 800. This system was based on the Multibus (a bus system developed by Intel and used in lots of industrical applications of single board comptuers). If you happen to buy a CP/M in the generic form it would run on one of those Intelled 800. Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and I need the double density version. Thanks. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 10:57:45 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <33355E3D.34B@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 11:45 am Message-ID: <199703231657.25543@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > Hello all, > > Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer > Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for > developers to develop hardware and software based on their > microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel. Yes, I have one, and most of the manuals. The only manual I am missing (I think) is the hardware reference for the ICE-80 in-circuit emulator for the 8080 processor. I have the hardware (2 multibus cards + probe) for that option. My system contains (I think) : 8080 CPU 4 off 16K RAM cards Bootstrap/monitor/bus controller I/O (for tty, paper tape, prom programmer, etc) ICE-80 Double-density floppy controller + 2 drives UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. > Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I > have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > I need the double density version. I have the double density disk controller + all the manuals, but obviously I want to keep it. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From danjo at xnet.com Sun Mar 23 11:11:13 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <33355E3D.34B@mich.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Dave Mabry wrote: > Hello all, > > An interesting point of trivia is that Gary Kildall originally developed > CP/M on the first 8080-based MDS called an Intellec 800. > > Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I > have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). Sure - I will discuss it! > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > I need the double density version. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Uh I don't think so! If you are *collecting* you maybe in deep trouble 8-) If you just are *using* then I think there are other options. Such as third-party hard and floppy controllers for the MultiBus. BC From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 15:59:12 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: Message-ID: <3335A7B0.1712@mich.com> Brett wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Dave Mabry wrote: snip... > > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > > I need the double density version. > > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com > > Uh I don't think so! > > If you are *collecting* you maybe in deep trouble 8-) > If you just are *using* then I think there are other options. > Such as third-party hard and floppy controllers for the MultiBus. > > BC There are third party controllers for the multibus, but the ISIS-II operating system is tied to the one that Intel made. And unless the third party ones are hardware and software compatible, they would not work with ISIS. I have two computer systems that use them (Intellec 800 and Series II) and three sets of controller boards. However, two sets of the controller boards have a failed board each. Anyway, I have one good set, so I can run either system, just not both at the same time. I'll keep looking. I have found these kind of things at swap meets in the past. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 16:02:19 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335A7B0.1712@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 4:59 pm Message-ID: <199703232202.5232@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > I have two computer systems that use them (Intellec 800 and Series II) > and three sets of controller boards. However, two sets of the > controller boards have a failed board each. Anyway, I have one good > set, so I can run either system, just not both at the same time. I assume it's the same board in each set :-( What's the fault? I have schematics of that controller somewhere, so it should be possible to fix the existing one. I have no idea where to find the custom multibus interface chip or the 3000-series bit slice stuff any more, but unless the same chip has failed on both boards, you might be able to make one good one from the 2 dead ones. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 16:05:58 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: <199703231657.25543@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3335A946.462D@mich.com> A.R. Duell wrote: > > > > > Hello all, > > > > Just wanted to ask if anyone out there has an Intel MDS (Microcomputer > > Development System). That was the 8080-based system that Intel sold for > > developers to develop hardware and software based on their > > microcomptuers. It ran an operating system called ISIS-II from Intel. > > Yes, I have one, and most of the manuals. The only manual I am missing (I > think) is the hardware reference for the ICE-80 in-circuit emulator for > the 8080 processor. I have the hardware (2 multibus cards + probe) for > that option. I have the ICE-80 as well, and used it many times (in the way past!). Intel was the first company to have in-circuit emulators (I believe) and that was the first one. It was a marvelous tool for system development. Seemed like magic at the time. > > My system contains (I think) : > > 8080 CPU > 4 off 16K RAM cards Fairly typical system (they came with 16k but you really needed 64k to do anything with language compilers under ISIS-II). > Bootstrap/monitor/bus controller > I/O (for tty, paper tape, prom programmer, etc) > ICE-80 > Double-density floppy controller + 2 drives > UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. Now the UPP is a unique device. It has personality boards for many different type of memories. There aren't too many eprom programmers out than can do 1702s, but it is one. > > > Anyway, anyone who would like to discuss these systems, I'm game. I > > have an Intellec 800 and a Series II (the successor). > > Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used > a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K > cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. I think the MCS8i was originally the Intellec 8. It was 8008 based, but there was an upgrade that made it an 8080 cpu. As old as I am, that one predates my experience. The Intellec 800 was my first development system. > > I would be interested in anyone who might have for sale a set of floppy > > diskette controller boards for these systems. It is a two-board set and > > I need the double density version. > > I have the double density disk controller + all the manuals, but obviously > I want to keep it. I suspect that most of them are going to be in the same situation. I'll keep looking. Take care. > -- > -tony > ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk > The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 16:13:57 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335A946.462D@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 5:05 pm Message-ID: <199703232213.5529@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > I have the ICE-80 as well, and used it many times (in the way past!). > Intel was the first company to have in-circuit emulators (I believe) and I'd _love_ an ICE-3000 (or whatever it's called) - the one for the 3000-series bit-slice chips. Do you happen to have any manuals on the ICE-80? I got all the other manuals for my system, but those, and the ICE-80 probe were missing. The probe turned up in a clearout 2 years later (!), but the manuals were never found. > > UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. > > Now the UPP is a unique device. It has personality boards for many Indeed. I think I have the 2708, 2716 and 8748 (!) personality boards. I have the 2 24 pin sockets on the front (alas - the 16 and 24 pin pair would probably have been more useful). The personality boards contain the 4001 ROMs containing the programming code for the particular EPROM. > different type of memories. There aren't too many eprom programmers out > than can do 1702s, but it is one. I don't have the 1702 personality board, but then my MCS8i can do 1702's, so it's no real problem... > > Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used > > a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K > > cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. > > I think the MCS8i was originally the Intellec 8. It was 8008 based, but Indeed it was. It says Intellec 8 on the front, but I seem to recall that MCS8i is written on it somewhere. I think mine was built as an 8080 system (The date codes on the CPU board are not much later than those on all the other boards, for example), rather than being upgraded. > there was an upgrade that made it an 8080 cpu. As old as I am, that one > predates my experience. The Intellec 800 was my first development > system. I bought my MCS8i at a radio rally (hamfest). It was a choice between that and an Altair. I personally think I bought the more interesting machine... > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 16:16:19 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: <199703232202.5232@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3335ABB3.5939@mich.com> A.R. Duell wrote: > > > I have two computer systems that use them (Intellec 800 and Series II) > > and three sets of controller boards. However, two sets of the > > controller boards have a failed board each. Anyway, I have one good > > set, so I can run either system, just not both at the same time. > > I assume it's the same board in each set :-( Yep. I've gone through many of these at work (in the 70s) and they always fail the same board. It has lots of analog circuitry on it and I suspect it is that part of it. > What's the fault? I have schematics of that controller somewhere, so it > should be possible to fix the existing one. I have no idea where to find > the custom multibus interface chip or the 3000-series bit slice stuff any > more, but unless the same chip has failed on both boards, you might be > able to make one good one from the 2 dead ones. The fault is very non-specific. When trying to boot it just returns a disk read failure. At that point the rom monitor is the only thing in charge and it is small. I thing it just says "error". I may try it again so I can be more specific. When we used them at work they were on a service contract, so I never had to mess with them. Just isolate which board was bad. If I get desperate I may try to fix it, but for now with one good set I can limp along. Don't use them very often, usually just to get files off of 8" diskettes. I also have the schematics. Thanks for the offer. -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Sun Mar 23 16:22:02 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335ABB3.5939@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 5:16 pm Message-ID: <199703232222.5606@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> > Yep. I've gone through many of these at work (in the 70s) and they > always fail the same board. It has lots of analog circuitry on it and I > suspect it is that part of it. I wonder if it's something as simple as the read PLL failing to lock. That should be easy to fix. I have a spare of one of the boards (a mad friend gave it to me along with some UPP personality boards), but I have no idea if it works, and anyway, I think it's the digital board with the 3000 stuff on it. BTW, I am working from memory here, and I've not looked at the schematics for a couple of months, so don't be suprised if I start talking nonsense... > The fault is very non-specific. When trying to boot it just returns a > disk read failure. At that point the rom monitor is the only thing in > charge and it is small. I thing it just says "error". I may try it Sure. I wondered if you'd tried doing any fault-tracing yet. > again so I can be more specific. When we used them at work they were on > a service contract, so I never had to mess with them. Just isolate > which board was bad. Fortunately, I've never had to battle with service contracts. Board-swapping never seemed satisfactory to me - until you've found the fault you can never be sure that you've swapped the right board. And if you've found the fault you might as well solder in a new component. > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From dmabry at mich.com Sun Mar 23 21:10:52 1997 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) References: <199703232213.5529@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3335F0BC.6A5@mich.com> A.R. Duell wrote: > > > I have the ICE-80 as well, and used it many times (in the way past!). > > Intel was the first company to have in-circuit emulators (I believe) and > > I'd _love_ an ICE-3000 (or whatever it's called) - the one for the > 3000-series bit-slice chips. Never knew there was one of those. > Do you happen to have any manuals on the ICE-80? I got all the other > manuals for my system, but those, and the ICE-80 probe were missing. The > probe turned up in a clearout 2 years later (!), but the manuals were > never found. I'll check. Might just have them. > > > UPP (Universal Prom Programmer) controlled by a 4040. > > > > Now the UPP is a unique device. It has personality boards for many > > Indeed. I think I have the 2708, 2716 and 8748 (!) personality boards. I > have the 2 24 pin sockets on the front (alas - the 16 and 24 pin pair > would probably have been more useful). > > The personality boards contain the 4001 ROMs containing the programming > code for the particular EPROM. > > > different type of memories. There aren't too many eprom programmers out > > than can do 1702s, but it is one. > > I don't have the 1702 personality board, but then my MCS8i can do 1702's, > so it's no real problem... That was another one of those boards prone to failure. Too much analog stuff I suppose. Tough to keep it in cal. > > > Mine's the MDS800. I also have the MCS8i, which was also 8080 based, used > > > a custom bus, and had a full front panel. That one has 8K of RAM, (2 4K > > > cards), 2K ROM (in 1702s), 8080 CPU, I/O card, and 1702 programmer. > > > > I think the MCS8i was originally the Intellec 8. It was 8008 based, but > > Indeed it was. It says Intellec 8 on the front, but I seem to recall that > MCS8i is written on it somewhere. I think mine was built as an 8080 system > (The date codes on the CPU board are not much later than those on all the > other boards, for example), rather than being upgraded. > > > there was an upgrade that made it an 8080 cpu. As old as I am, that one > > predates my experience. The Intellec 800 was my first development > > system. > > I bought my MCS8i at a radio rally (hamfest). It was a choice between that > and an Altair. I personally think I bought the more interesting machine... Indeed you did! Altairs are everywhere! You have the machine that likely the Altair was designed with!!! -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Great Lakes Maritime Institute Underwater Research Team NACD NSS-CDS #42872 From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 23 18:57:28 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Help with Osborne 1 and TI 99/4A needed please References: Message-ID: <3335D178.7333@goldrush.com> Doug Spence wrote: [snip] > Hey! I currently have a similar problem. I brought a Kaypro II home > recently (last week? I've forgotten already) and although it had a boot > disk in the drive, it wasn't an OS disk, and I can't format disks or > other boot disks. And the disk that was in the drive (a pirate copy of > WordStar) is flaky. The Kaypro is a pretty nice computer we have a Kaypro-10 at work (locked away in storage till who knows when). Good video bios, no hi-res like the Televideo but the terminal emulation was ok, (ADM 3A compatible, I think). Can run Worstar on it as well as dBase II also a handfull of simple video games and a drawing program (SCS draw). I might have the disks under my desk at work... ;-) [snip] > > Heh. This also sounds familiar. I have a CBM 2040 drive, sans fuse and > cap. I know at least one of the drive units works, as I got a directory > from a 1541 disk on my PET while holding a screwdriver in the fuse > socket. Don't do this at home. :) I would get a panel mount fuse-holder from Radio Shack and replace it (that is if the fuse-holder caps are incompatible), fortunately many of the PET/CBM fuses are not PCboard mounted. Larry Anderson From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Mar 23 21:15:25 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing References: <3.0.32.19970322104458.00a3fa70@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3335F1CD.1910@goldrush.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are > *much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned > this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the > most what one owns or has owned. > I see a good deal of the CoCos at a somewhat near-by flea market, almost as many as 64s, (not saying that they made as many CoCos as Commodore did with 64s, it just seems they both are being sold in abundance nowadays....) After CoCos and 64s, next would be TI 99/4 whatevers, then Atari 800/400 series. I was surprised to see an Aquarius WITH expansion module and controllers for sale a month or so ago. Larry Anderson From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Mar 24 00:48:03 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: FS: Tandy Model 100 w/manuals, case, cables Message-ID: <333623A3.26BD@oboe.calpoly.edu> Hello, I have decided to sell my Tandy Model 100. It comes complete with both the owner's manual and service manual, a soft vinyl case, modem/phone cable and cassette cable. Works great! Since I didn't know what to ask, I went ahead and listed it on AuctionWeb. Here's the link to bid and get more info, see picture, etc: http://www.ebay.com/aw-cgi/item.cgi?item=lvp42398 Thanks and any questions, please feel free to ask. Greg -- http://www.calpoly.edu/~gmast ______________ NOTICE ___________________ My email will be down from 3/25 to 3/29. The system may not be receiving mail. If you send a message I won't be able to reply until 3/30. If you don't receive a reply, please resend after 3/29. Thanks, Greg _________________________________________ From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 24 04:21:30 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Intel MDS (Microcomputer Development System) In-Reply-To: <3335F0BC.6A5@mich.com>; from "Dave Mabry" at Mar 23, 97 10:10 pm Message-ID: <199703241021.15589@tw400.eng.cam.ac.uk> > > A.R. Duell wrote: [...] > > I'd _love_ an ICE-3000 (or whatever it's called) - the one for the > > 3000-series bit-slice chips. > > Never knew there was one of those. It's mentioned in the back of one of the Intel databooks I have. I think it was an ICE for the sequencer chip (I've forgotten which one that was), but, of course, since the microcode would most likely be in ROM, emulating the sequencer would be enough to trace the microcode, and hence get a good idea of what was going on. [...] > > I don't have the 1702 personality board, but then my MCS8i can do 1702's, > > so it's no real problem... > > That was another one of those boards prone to failure. Too much analog > stuff I suppose. Tough to keep it in cal. Provided it's not the 4001's that fail, then there's no real problem. The analogue bits are at least fixable. Of course programming a 1702 was non-trivial - you had to drive a number of pins to crazy voltages... > Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From classicjr at juno.com Mon Mar 24 09:21:21 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: To Digest Commands? References: <199703241021.15589@tw400.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <19970324.075753.10055.2.classicjr@juno.com> Thanks for offering the disccussion group in digest form. The many messages each day were often too much to "digest" :-) What commands do I need to send and where do I need to send them to set my subscription to a digest? From classicjr at juno.com Mon Mar 24 09:55:36 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computers I have known References: <199703241021.15589@tw400.eng.cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <19970324.075753.10055.3.classicjr@juno.com> Well Here goes my list of computers I have owned over the years since 1983. I may miss some, but here goes. Owned and resold: Timex/Sinclair ZX-81 and 2068, with Printer Atari 400, 800, 800XL, Various Drives and Access. NEC APC with 2 -8" Drives Epson QX-10, QX 16 Cromemco C-10 Burroughs B?? Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 16 Eagle IIE Televideo Radio Shack Model 3, 4 Coloco Adam XT Clone with 20 Meg. H. Drive Still own: Epson HX-20 (non working battery) Epson Geneva Px-8 Tandy Model 102, and WP-1 (Word Processor) Casio PB-700 (Pocket computer with Printer/Cassette Adaptor) Kaypro 2X, 4 Tandy CoCo computers, 2, 3, Originals, Various Drives and Access. Tandy 1000 TL-3 Tandy 1000 SL AT&T 6300 Otrona Attache (2 Nonworking) Dynologic Hyperion (Portable MS-DOS machine) Intertec Superbrain QD, (2) AST Adventure DX2-50 ACER Acros 486DX-33 586-133 Clone machine The Best and Worst? Best Keyboards, The Tandy 1000SL, TL-3. Worst Keyboard - Timex Sinclait ZX-81 and COCO's Best Support - Kaypro's Worst Support and Software availability - NEC APC Wierdest Operating system - Burroughs Wierdest hardware - Cromemco C-10 (a Monitor Box with Moterboard and ports, separate drive boxes, and separate keyboard.) Neatest Hardware design - Televideo (Modern Monitor Style with vertical Floppies, one on top of another. From BigLouS at aol.com Mon Mar 24 09:02:25 1997 From: BigLouS at aol.com (BigLouS@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Adam for Sale Message-ID: <970324100223_512104928@emout13.mail.aol.com> Someone on AOL has an Adam for sale. Is anyone interested? Lou From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 24 09:16:47 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970322104458.00a3fa70@mail.northernway.net> from "Roger Merchberger" at Mar 22, 97 11:06:26 am Message-ID: <199703241516.KAA32051@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Roger Merchberger once stated: > > At 05:54 PM 3/21/97 -0500, you wrote: > > Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era. Usually > > have to hunt around, but persistence pays off. > > Color computers, Coleco Adams and what not > > fall into this catagory (IMHO). > > > > Common - Fairly easy to find. Apple ][s, Amigas would be > > here (again IMHO). > > Ummm... my intention here is not to flame, but Tandy Color Computers are > *much* more abundant than you realize, mainly because (and I've learned > this thru observation and personal experience) that one usually notices the > most what one owns or has owned. I own two Color Computers myself, and I've rarely see them around. The last few ham fests only a few showed up (the last one I did see two Apple Lisa's though). It might also have something to do with geographical region. PCs are very plentiful where I live, even the stuff from IBM. Why? Because IBM developed the PC in Boca Raton, FL [1]. > My point is there was an immense production of the Color Computer (there > must... I own 3 myself) and in my little town of 14,000, I can name people > who still own and use them, but the last Amiga I saw in this town was > almost 10 years ago. Mind you, I'm not saying they're not around... I'm > saying I don't see/take note of them, because I prefer Color Computers... I've only met one other person that owned a Color Computer. But I've met plenty that have owned and used Amigas. I don't know anyone that hasn't owned a PC at one time or other. I know a few people that own Macs, but they also tend to own PCs as well. Again, it might be a geographical thing. > I can give you one bit of information: The Tandy Color Computer line was in > production longer than any other 8-bit (and some 16-bit) home computer. But then why do I keep seeing Apple ][s for sale everywhere? Might it be that people keep good computers? 8-) -spc (Always liked the 6809 over the 6502 anyway ... ) [1] IBM Main Site (which IBM pulled out of last year) is about 25 minutes (with average traffic) from my house, and about 5 from my office. The college I attened is across the street from IBM. Go figure. From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 24 09:30:04 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703231615.22692@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> from "A.R. Duell" at Mar 23, 97 04:15:04 pm Message-ID: <199703241530.KAA32087@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great A.R. Duell once stated: > > > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered: > > > > > Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not very > > > many. > > > > How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s? > > Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard > > Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. > > What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger? > Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. Sound limited to me 8-) > > I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing > > life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro- > > based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks, > > Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros > (particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch > quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer > equipment. At the auction I attended recently, Two large (and I mean physically large) VAX systems were sold for $50 (for the two of them). If #431 [1] wasn't bidding, it might have been fun to get them. But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it weighs that much, but it was huge) home? Where do I get three phase 220 power? Even though my office is the Cold Room [2] where I work, we don't have the room or the power to run those things. Shame really. > The PERQ (sorry to keep on mentioning what I consider to be one of the > finest machines ever made) has a minicomputer-like CPU (260+ chips, 74S181 > ALUs, 2910 sequencer, etc) that you can get amongst together with a hi-res > bitmapped display. Now that's a machine I wouldn't mind owning. -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) [1] Who bidded (and often outbid) on just about every lot in the auction, and seemed not to care what he got or even interested in what we has bidding for. Grrrrrrrr. [2] In name only. It's the largest office actually, with two A/C vents, and were all our companies servers are. I'm not the sysadmin (at least, I don't want to be) though my partners haven't realized that yet [3]. [3] Oh, this ISN'T alt.sysadmin.recovery? Sorry. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Mar 24 09:50:29 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703241530.KAA32087@armigeron.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote: > At the auction I attended recently, Two large (and I mean physically > large) VAX systems were sold for $50 (for the two of them). If #431 [1] > wasn't bidding, it might have been fun to get them. Don't ya just severely dislike (PC tm. scan: "hate" rejected) people like that? I see those type around here as well. > But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it > weighs that much, but it was huge) home? A flat-bed utility trailer and a heavy chain come-along does wonders. BTW: I think the 'book' weight on the 11/780 in my collection is 1150 lbs. > Where do I get three phase 220 power? Don't need it. All of the DEC gear I've ever seen seems to use the three phase setup as much for convienence as anything. Once you get past the power controller (relay box), all of the actual power supplies are 117VAC single phase. (and have 'normal' three prong plugs going into the power controller) If you like the power controllers, takes about one hour to rework it for 220VAC single phase, or just skip it altogether. (tho, then you have to go through the power sequencing manually B^} ) > -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) Like??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From spc at armigeron.com Mon Mar 24 10:01:13 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Mar 24, 97 07:50:29 am Message-ID: <199703241601.LAA32166@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great James Willing once stated: > > > But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it > > weighs that much, but it was huge) home? > > A flat-bed utility trailer and a heavy chain come-along does wonders. > BTW: I think the 'book' weight on the 11/780 in my collection is 1150 lbs. I'm sure the neighbors would live that 8-) Did I mention I live in a condo? Fortunately, it's on the first floor, but still ... > > Where do I get three phase 220 power? > > Don't need it. All of the DEC gear I've ever seen seems to use the three > phase setup as much for convienence as anything. Once you get past the > power controller (relay box), all of the actual power supplies are 117VAC > single phase. (and have 'normal' three prong plugs going into the power > controller) > > If you like the power controllers, takes about one hour to rework it for > 220VAC single phase, or just skip it altogether. (tho, then you have to go > through the power sequencing manually B^} ) Oh. I'm a software guy. While I could probably do it, I'd be nervous about it. And while Florida Flicker and Flash would love for me to power those things, I'm not sure my wallet would. > > -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) > > Like??? Anything? The serial connection isn't like anything I've seen. Looks like a telephone jack, but six wires instead of four, and the latch thing seems off center. I'd like to use it, as it seems to work great. But I can't hook it up to anything. -spc (Sigh. So many computers, so little time ... ) From MPritchard at ensemble.net Mon Mar 24 10:10:07 1997 From: MPritchard at ensemble.net (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing Message-ID: <199703241608.IAA00773@mx3.u.washington.edu> >What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger? >Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. Don't forget the Atari 1400, 1450xld, etc, which exists as prototypes only. Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros (particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer equipment. It's a memory/nostalgia thing. When I was a young boy, I got access to a bunch of early micros (Ohio Scientific, Exidy Sorcerer, Kim -1, etc). Now I'm older and want own things from my youth. ;-) -Matt Pritchard From kevan at motiv.co.uk Mon Mar 24 10:28:44 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Collectors web pages... Message-ID: <199703241628.QAA12764@cream.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Simply, I am looking for URL's of collectors who document their collection on the Web. For some time I have had page on my Web site that lists other classic computer collectors who have web pages that document their collection. I am now in the process of revamping my collection web site and I would like to improve the list of the collectors web pages I have. The URL for this new page is: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/collection/other_collectors.html If you have a web page that documents your collection and I haven't already got it then please drop me a note and I will add it to the list. Regards -- Kevan Heydon Old Computer Collector: From ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk Mon Mar 24 11:04:38 1997 From: ard12 at eng.cam.ac.uk (A.R. Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703241530.KAA32087@armigeron.com>; from "Captain Napalm" at Mar 24, 97 10:30 am Message-ID: <199703241704.17812@club.eng.cam.ac.uk> [Vaxen] > But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it > weighs that much, but it was huge) home? Where do I get three phase 220 Err... In bits??? Seriously, a lot of larger machines split up into liftable modules quite easily. I'd never think of moving one in one piece, but half an hour with a screwdriver can make the job a lot easier. A few points if you do this : Label anything that's not obvious - cable connections, PSU terminals, board positions, etc. I normally number the card cages in some order, and stick labels on them carrying that number. I then number the slots in each cage, if possible, following the manufacturers convention but if not, I mark slot 1 in each cage. I then label the boards with things like 5/23 or 1/27 (meaning slot 23 in cage 5, etc) Boards are suprisingly heavy, and it's often worth emptying the cardcage. The empty cardcages are often quite light. Oh, make sure the person giving you the machine is expecting you to dismantle it. They often do - I've been offered the use of toolkits, etc (although I always bring my own tools if possible). Once they got rather annoyed with me for pulling covers, etc (they just wanted me to pick up the machine and leave), but I wasn't going to move a Shugart SA4000 winchester without fitting the headclamps no matter what they thought ;-) > power? Even though my office is the Cold Room [2] where I work, we don't > have the room or the power to run those things. The power isn't that much of a problem. With the exception of large disk drives (which may have 3 phase motors), almost all this stuff _can_ be kludged to run off a single-phase line. [PERQs] > Now that's a machine I wouldn't mind owning. They're not _that_ hard to find, although they may be more common in the UK than the States (A lot were sold by ICL to UK Universities). Keep on looking, and one will turn up. > > -spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?) What about them? They eat flyback transformers.... -- -tony ard12@eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill From jeffh at eleventh.com Wed Mar 19 09:54:54 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 24-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > After CoCos and 64s, next would be TI 99/4 whatevers, then Atari >800/400 series. I was surprised to see an Aquarius WITH expansion >module and controllers for sale a month or so ago. Larry, That certainly is interesting...I would have liked to have seen that one. I picked up a second Aquarius the other day, this one from Mattel, while my first doesn't bear the Mattel name anywhere on it, and seems to have been sold directly by Radofin Electronics. Other than the Mattel name missing from the case and ID label though, and the fact that the Radofin machine has an 'R' tacked to the end of the model number, they are identical. The third variant I've heard of, but not seen, is the PAL version sold in the UK. I don't recall it's model number, but it's model was totally different than the 5931 model of the US NTSC version. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex- Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jeffh at eleventh.com Wed Mar 19 10:27:22 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's an idea my father posed this weekend while I was telling him about this list and other such things about these computers. He's an antique clock restorer/dealer in the midwest, and he asked if we had thought of forming a formal association, such as those done for other types of collictibles and antiques. I thought it was an interesting idea, and an electronic newsletter with tips and articles written by people here could be done on say a monthly or bi-monthly basis. Any other thoughts on this from anyone? Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 24 16:38:28 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: To Digest Commands? In-Reply-To: <19970324.075753.10055.2.classicjr@juno.com> Message-ID: > Thanks for offering the disccussion group in digest form. The many > messages each day were often too much to "digest" :-) > > What commands do I need to send and where do I need to send them to set > my subscription to a digest? Read the highlighted section below: ClassicCmp Regular Posting Mailing Lists and How to Talk to the List Robot This message is posted with frequency proportional to subscription rate (or monthly). Mailing List Basics A mailing list is a simple device which takes an e-mail and redistributes it to a group of people. People can add and remove themselves from the distribution list by Subscribing and Unsubscribing. When you send a message to the list, it is first examined by the robot for key words that tell it to process an automatic funtion (like help, subscribe, unsubscribe, etc). If the message does not contain a keyword it is sent to the distribution list. How to Talk to the Robot > There are a few List Processor commands that you might want to > use. To send a command to the list processor, write a message > to listproc@u.washington.edu. In the body of the message (not > the subject line, that is) write one of the following commands. > Then send the message. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL ACK Tells the robot to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. This is the default. SET CLASSICCMP MAIL NOACK Tells the robot NOT to send you a copy of messages you write to the list. I don't recommend this. > SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST > Tells the robot to send you a digest of messages > rather than each as it is posted. With this option > you will get a weekly bundle of messages and keep > a nice, tidy in-box. SUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Subscribes you to the list. UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICCMP Your.Address Removes you from the list. That's the basics. If you need to know more just drop me a line at bcw@u.washington.edu. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 24 18:51:03 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Encyclopedia Message-ID: Hi folks. The computer encyclopedia seems to have survived the weekend and is ready for new entries. So far six machines have been cataloged. Here's your chance to show off what you know about your obscure machines (and help justify all the work that went into this thing). Go to the CCL site (http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw/ccl.html) and click on the Classic Computer Encyclopedia. Then just go to Add a computer. Or just browse around and see what you think. Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From william at ans.net Mon Mar 24 21:21:11 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <199703220251.VAA00160@zephyr.cacm.org> Message-ID: <199703250321.AA04019@interlock.ans.net> I am a little confused here... I assume that the availability field of this listing would be for collectors today, not original users years back. The two interpretations have profound differences. For example, IBM 360 and 370 mainframes were made in quite large quantities, but very few exist today. One could list them as Uncommon or Rare (probably very rare!). Likewise, NeXT cubes were never made in huge numbers, but getting one is not very hard. Also, I think the Limited field really is more like "Very Rare". There is a difference between those machines really made to a limited quantity (a known production run), and those that tried to make it big, like failed prototypes. Perhaps the "Limited" flag should be listed in the machine description, like a note. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Mar 25 00:45:40 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Laser computers from VTL In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970321092856.0082d270@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > The "mixed" colors are created thru a phenomenon called "color > artifacting." This happens when you try to display thin (vertical usually) > white lines on a color TV. The TV cannot show lines that thin on the > phosphor grid, so you end up activating only the (usually) blue or red pixels. This is actually similar to the way the Apple ][ does its colour in high resolution modes. I don't remember the exact way it worked, but there were seven visible pixels per byte, and one hidden bit. When that hidden bit was on, pixels in that display byte were orange or blue, and when it was off they were green or purple. A pixel turned on alone had its colour decided by whether it was in an even or odd position, horizontally, and by that hidden bit. If two pixels were turned on side-by-side, the result was a fat white pixel. Of course, if you made the mistake of attempting to plot an orange pixel in a byte with green and purple pixels, the pixels would change colour. And if you POKEd the same value into two bytes that were beside each other, the colours would reverse (green would become purple in the second byte, orange would become blue...). This is how it works on the Laser 3000, too, in HGR and HGR2 modes. But go up to HGR5 and HGR6 modes, and it doesn't work like the Apple anymore. In HGR5 and HGR6 modes, you can plot any colour to any pixel, without affecting the other pixels in that byte. And the basic colours are different: HCOLOR= Apple ][ Laser 3000 0 black1 black 1 green green 2 magenta magenta 3 white1 cyan 4 black2 yellow 5 orange red 6 blue blue 7 white2 white On the Laser 3000, you can do something like this: 10 HGR5 20 FOR X=1 TO 280 STEP 2 30 HCOLOR=X/35 40 HPLOT X,0 TO X,191 50 NEXT X 60 FOR Y=1 TO 7 70 FOR X=0 TO 279 STEP 2 80 HCOLOR=Y 90 HPLOT X,Y*24 TO X,Y*24+23 100 NEXT X,Y On a composite monitor, this gives 64 visually distinct colours. I presume an RGB monitor would show what's really going on, but some of the colours that come out of the "mixing" are really strange, when the two "source" colours are taken into account. I don't really know what the Laser 3000 is doing internally with this... It only seems to use 2 bitplanes for 8 colours (compared to the Apple's use of one bitplane for 6 colours). If I knew how to plug an RGB monitor into this thing (it does have an RGB port, but I don't know the pinouts) I'd be able to see better what it's doing. BTW, in case anyone's interested: In memory, HGR5 occupies $4000-$5FFF and $6000-$7FFF HGR6 occupies $8000-$9FFF and $A000-$BFFF I still don't know where in memory HGR3 and HGR4 are (double hi-res modes with the standard Apple colours). I can't seem to address them directly with POKE. Must be hiding up there in those other memory pages. > The Color Computer 1 / 2 had the same "problem" and many programs for this > took advantage of this to show color for the highest-resolution which was > monochrome. I think it's the phase of the video sync that changes with > respect to the TV that makes the colors swap... Many of the CoCo programs > that used this technique actually remapped the reset key so it would > re-enter the program, and showed a test screen with 2 boxes and "this > should be blue" under one and "this should be red" under the other. You > just kept resetting the computer (without having to re-load the pgm every > time) until the colors synced correctly. Helpful for RPG's that said "you > need the blue key..." At least the Apple was consistent with the colours, so I guess it's not just artifacting called a 'feature' (it really is a feature). That's cool, BTW. I think I'll drag my Laser 3000 out as soon as I have time and see if its reset can swap the colour sets. If so, I can use the same trick the Color Computer used for my own software. > Of course, when we "geeks" upgraded to the RGB monitor on the CoCo 3, we > lost all color artifacting... and the games became almost totally > unplayable. (No! You need the *other* white-striped key!) ;-) Yup, I remember this on the Apple, using the monochrome monitor. :) > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, > Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. > zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* > | until I find some new wisdom to share. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 25 01:25:33 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: The return of the 'Mark-8' Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970324232533.00ed6ec8@agora.rdrop.com> (Attempting not to drop into 'blatant advertising' mode... B^} ) In preparation for an exhibit of 'Classic Computers' that I am working on with other local collectors and the Oregon Museum of Science and History (OMSI - http://www.omsi.edu) to be presented this November, we are planning to reconstruct (at least one) functioning 'Mark-8' microcomputer as originally presented in a construction article in the July 1974 edition of 'Radio-Electronics' magazine. (predating the presentation of the 'Altair' construction project in a competing magazine by six months) Briefly for those not familiar with the unit, the 'Mark-8' (referred to as a "minicomputer" in the original article) is an Intel 8008 microprocessor based unit with a clock speed of 500kHz and a maximum addresing range of 16kb. The unit as implemented in this project features a full 'programmers' front panel, and is constructed on six double sided circuit boards which comprise the CPU board, parallel data input and output boards, display board, address latch and memory boards. The reconstruction as I will be implementing it will add a seventh board to stand in for the original memory board which was designed for 1101 static RAM chips which are no longer available in any quantity. The revised memory board will substitute 2102 static RAM chips which are readily available. (Note: there is a possibility that we may just update the existing memory board layout to allow the use of either RAM chip, but we are not quite that far along as yet) To help defer the costs of having the circuit boards made, we are offering sets of the boards to interested parties at our cost. Currently, with the minimum run of boards to make this project practical (6 sets) the cost per set stands at $200.00US. Four sets are currently spoken for. To get this rolling, we at least to find people interested in the other two board sets, and if more people are interested we can get the price per set down even further. (or if someone out there works for a PC board house???) And, since someone will no doubt ask... Yes, we do have a source for the Intel 8008 microprocessors. The quantities are limited however, and the current price for the microprocessor is $200.00US. All other required parts to construct this unit are readily available through stardard sources. Also, through the kindness of the management of Gernsback Publications (publisher of 'Radio-Electronics' and other related publications) we can provide reprints of the original construction article and documentation set for the 'Mark-8' project to anyone who purchases one of the board sets. (with updates for the revised memory board) If anyone is interested in joining us on this classic adventure or has any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thanks! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kevan at motiv.co.uk Tue Mar 25 03:27:19 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199703250927.JAA26582@cream.motiv.co.uk> In message you write: > > The third variant > I've heard of, but not seen, is the PAL version sold in the UK. I don't > recall it's model number, but it's model was totally different than the 5931 > model of the US NTSC version. > The UK PAL versions model number is: 4110 you can a picture of one here: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-mattel.html -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: From jeffh at eleventh.com Thu Mar 20 05:31:53 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >The UK PAL versions model number is: 4110 you can a picture of one here: > http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/old_collection/manufacturer-mattel.html >Kevan Yes, your machine was the one I was referring to! I found the Mattel version for $1 the other day after we were talking about the differences in the model's. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Mar 26 00:57:42 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970321144630.0089c4a0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Check out this URL: > > http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~axc/MACHINE-ROOM/welcome.html > > the Database isn't overly huge, and doesn't have database, or auto-add, or > any of that jazz, but it's got a beautiful layout and some really strange > machines in it (including a pic & listing for the Video Technology Laser > 200... Cool! Thanks, I'll check that out. I was browsing around last night and I found a picture of the Laser 200. That was at http://194.22.63.201/homepages/gerard.laures/Laser200.htm, and I must say it's a cute looking little machine. I'll check out the page you mentioned and see if there are any stats. I'm becoming more interested in Video Technology Ltd. It seems they made a lot of computers I've never heard of. I feel kind of lucky to have found something of theirs, in a strange kind of way. :) Not that it's like finding a Mark-8 or anything. > -- > Roger Merchberger | Everyone complained to me to change my .sig, > Programmer, NorthernWay | but no-one could recommend something better. > zmerch@northernway.net | So you'll have to put up with this *junk* > | until I find some new wisdom to share. Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From classicjr at juno.com Wed Mar 26 10:32:56 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Laser PC-3, 4 References: <199703260802.AAA02286@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <19970326.083319.7399.0.classicjr@juno.com> Anyone on the list ever heard of the Laser PC-3 and PC-4 Laptop computers? They were small NonDos, NonWindows computers to be used mainly as Organizers and Word Processors. They were out about 7 years ago and sold at Sears stores, etc. I sure would like to get one of those machines... Especially the PC-4, with the bigger screen. They came with a choice of Ms-Dos or Mac connection cables and Software. Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ?? From johnz at utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Wed Mar 26 11:38:58 1997 From: johnz at utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (John Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Laser PC-3, 4 Message-ID: >Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ?? I saw one at a workshop 2 years age. At that time they were selling for $239.00, with a number of add on options. They are or were available from Perfect Solutions 12657 Coral Breeze Dr. West Palm Beach, FL 33414 1-800-726-7086 (407) 790-1070 John Moore From spc at armigeron.com Wed Mar 26 12:06:16 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Laser PC-3, 4 In-Reply-To: from "John Moore" at Mar 26, 97 11:38:58 am Message-ID: <199703261806.NAA05551@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great John Moore once stated: > > >Anyone know where I could find a PC-4 ?? > > I saw one at a workshop 2 years age. At that time they were selling for > $239.00, with a number of add on options. > They are or were available from Perfect Solutions > 12657 Coral Breeze Dr. > West Palm Beach, FL 33414 > 1-800-726-7086 > (407) 790-1070 Actually, the area code for West Palm Beach has changed from 407 to 561. Just so you know. -spc (Still not used to a county having it's own area code) From bm_pete at ix.netcom.com Wed Mar 26 16:27:30 1997 From: bm_pete at ix.netcom.com (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Epic Computer Message-ID: <33397dc9.3334277@smtp.ix.netcom.com> Greetings; I've found/uncovered another computer in my garage, does anyone know anything about it? The label says Epic Computer Products, Inc. Fountain Valley, Calif. Model 2296 It measures about 9" wide, 7" high, and 14" deep (breadbox size) Most of the space is taken by 2 FH 5?" drives (Qume model 592) one drive has a disk in it which is labeled 77 tracks/side, so I assume they are 640K or 720K. The processor is a Z80A with 64KB, so my best guess is that it's a CP/M system. The back panel contains a RESET button, a TEST/NORMAL switch, a DB-25F connector with a switch labeled toCOMM EQUIP/toPRINTER, a Centronics connector labeled PARALLEL, and a couple of other "phone jack" type connectors. (I don't know the name for these connectors, but they're the same size as the one on my phone-handset connection, not the plug-in-the-wall size) One of these connectors is labeled CONSOLE, the other is labeled PRINTER SERIAL. I would like to get this thing running, but don't know how to do it, what to use, or where to connect it. Any help/info would be appreciated. _______________ Barry Peterson bm_pete@ix.netcom.com Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe now and to Tegan soon! From kevan at motiv.co.uk Thu Mar 27 09:34:40 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Insurance of your collection... Message-ID: <199703271534.PAA10662@cream.motiv.co.uk> Ok, what do people do about insurance of their computer collections. I guess mine is covered on the plain old house contents insurance, but the more I think about it the more I worry about a potential claim for over 60 old (and I guess in the minds of insurers, obsolete) computers. I guess insurers will want a current market value, but what is current market value for old computers? As far as I am concerned there isn't a market value and each computer is only worth as much as the person selling it wants for it, or what the purchaser is willing to pay. I have recorded the prices I have payed for most of the things I have in my collection, but some of the rarest and most valuable to me I got given for free. Other items I have payed a lot of money for, probably too much sometimes when I realy want the item. In no case have I got a reciept for a purchase. Thoughts please. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: From alexios at vennea.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 26 18:52:53 1997 From: alexios at vennea.demon.co.uk (Alexios Chouchoulas) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Computer Listing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Check out this URL: > > > > http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/~axc/MACHINE-ROOM/welcome.html > > > > the Database isn't overly huge, and doesn't have database, or auto-add, or > > any of that jazz, but it's got a beautiful layout and some really strange > > machines in it (including a pic & listing for the Video Technology Laser > > 200... > > Cool! Thanks, I'll check that out. Greetings, Roger! Wow, the Machine Room just got a mention! I'm honoured (substitute honored, depending on location). :-) The Laser 200 pic is really horrible, it's from a Greek (!) mag circa 1984, all in black and white and very small. I know I've seen a colour ad for the critter, but I can't locate it. Btw, since it's URL time, may I suggest the /new/ URL for the Machine Room: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/ It's even nicer to nice browsers (i.e. Lynx) and contains more machines (68 right now). > I'm becoming more interested in Video Technology Ltd. It seems they made > a lot of computers I've never heard of. And they were all sort-of-compatible to something else! Strangely enough, they changed their choice of cloned machine every model and they weren't particularly good at it, either. :-) Have fun! Alexios --------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. ------------------------------- Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88' alexios@vennea.demon.co.uk The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc@dcs.ed.ac.uk From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 28 00:25:33 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal Message-ID: <199703280730.BAA21402@ds9.comland.com> I have a C Itoh Video Terminal model number CT101. If anyone can use it, and doesn't mind paying shipping, I would be happy to send it to them. It is in good working condition, there are some crayon marks on the side, but I'm sure they will come off. I put it into my kids room and let them hit the keys and watch the characters come up on the screen. They thought it was the neatest thing. It is nothing more than a dumb terminal, but I know some of you have mini computers and might be able to use it as a console or something like that. Just email me and let me know, or if you need more information. I live in Austin, TX. and would bring it to work if you are local and don't mind picking it up. It's nothing really special, but I hate to throw out something that someone might be able to use. Isaac Davis idavis@comland.com indavis@juno.com From classicjr at juno.com Fri Mar 28 09:22:39 1997 From: classicjr at juno.com (Jeffrey G. Rottman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? References: <199703280802.AAA05813@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <19970328.074212.5287.1.classicjr@juno.com> I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An "Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going. I have on old catalog from the "JMM Computer Products" from Auburn Washington which details many accessories and cables that they sold for the Osbornes. I may be interested in getting a Parallel Cable, maybe an internal Ram Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software. Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a Hard Disk upgrade?? BTW, I have color brochures of all three of the Osborne machines, the O1, Exec. and the Vixen that I have stashed away since the 80's. They are fun to look at once and a while. From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 28 14:48:54 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal In-Reply-To: <199703280730.BAA21402@ds9.comland.com> from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 28, 97 01:25:33 am Message-ID: <199703282048.MAA21453@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 793 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970328/70c1e154/attachment-0001.ksh From idavis at comland.com Fri Mar 28 15:40:43 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:02 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970328214043.008ed3ac@mail.comland.com > At 12:48 PM 3/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi! > >If you still have this, I would definitely have a use for it... I have about >7 Unix machines that I could use an extra dumb terminal on... > Jay Vaughan Jay, It's yours. I will try and box it up this weekend and ship it out early next week, it's not extremely heavy, but it's close. I will even see if I can get the crayon off of it. There's not much, just a little scribble, but everything works just fine on it. I don't have any cables to hook it up, just the keyboard and the monitor, but it looks like it has standard rs232 and parallel ports on the back. I knew someone could use it, and sure hated to throw it away. I have never really shipped anything(man i'm naieve), so if you want anything special fed-ex wise, email me and let me know what to do. Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance. idavis@comland.com : Feeling the flow. indavis@juno.com : Working it. Working it. From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 28 21:20:20 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970328214043.008ed3ac@mail.comland.com > from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 28, 97 03:40:43 pm Message-ID: <199703290320.TAA22827@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1075 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970328/0b462f6d/attachment-0001.ksh From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Fri Mar 28 21:21:15 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: C Itoh Video Terminal In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970328214043.008ed3ac@mail.comland.com > from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 28, 97 03:40:43 pm Message-ID: <199703290321.TAA22837@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1561 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970328/97e78cef/attachment-0001.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Mar 28 22:38:23 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? In-Reply-To: <19970328.074212.5287.1.classicjr@juno.com> References: <199703280802.AAA05813@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970328203823.00ed03e0@agora.rdrop.com> At 07:22 AM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote: >I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An >"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going. Congratulations. They are neat beasts. >I may be interested in getting a Parallel Cable, maybe an internal Ram >Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software. > >Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a >Hard Disk upgrade?? Interesting you mention the "Drive C" unit, I have on e in my collection but no software or docs. Anyone have any info on this critter? >BTW, I have color brochures of all three of the Osborne machines, the O1, >Exec. and the Vixen that I have stashed away since the 80's. They are fun >to look at once and a while. You should scan those in for the masses to view. B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jim at october.u-net.com Sat Mar 29 00:37:48 1997 From: jim at october.u-net.com (James Campbell Andrew) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Insurance of your collection... In-Reply-To: <199703271534.PAA10662@cream.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <199703290637489276@october.u-net.com> > Ok, what do people do about insurance of their computer collections. I > guess mine is covered on the plain old house contents insurance, but > the more I think about it the more I worry about a potential claim for > over 60 old (and I guess in the minds of insurers, obsolete) computers. > > I guess insurers will want a current market value, but what is current > market value for old computers? As far as I am concerned there isn't > a market value and each computer is only worth as much as the person > selling it wants for it, or what the purchaser is willing to pay. Correct. Although some systems (Vectrex spring to mind) are starting to increase in price. In MicroMart you often see them advertised for 300UKP or so. Whether they actually *sell* for that is anyones guess! I averaged out the value of my old systems at roughly 50 UKP each so the total came to about 2,000UKP. I just bumped my insurance up by that amount. Many household insurances actually come with a 'collections' clause so it's best to have a gander at it and see if you are already covered. -- | The application "Jim" has suffered http://www.october.u-net.com | a Total Enthusiasm Failure Collector of 8bit computers | and must exit immediately. WANTED:TRS-80 Model 2 (UK) | [[ OK ]] [ CANCEL ] From jeffh at eleventh.com Sat Mar 29 09:32:03 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Enterprise Computers Message-ID: This is for all of our European members. I'm interested in the Enterprise line of computers, either the 64 or the 128. How common are these machines in Europe? Would it be hard to find one? Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: The computer for the creative mind...since 1985! // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 30 05:35:50 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Kaypro, TeleVideo, PET In-Reply-To: <3335D178.7333@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > The Kaypro is a pretty nice computer we have a Kaypro-10 at work > (locked away in storage till who knows when). Good video bios, no > hi-res like the Televideo but the terminal emulation was ok, (ADM 3A > compatible, I think). Can run Worstar on it as well as dBase II also a > handfull of simple video games and a drawing program (SCS draw). I > might have the disks under my desk at work... ;-) I think the power supply on my Kaypro II is anemic or something. The display shudders when the drives are accessed, and scrolling in WordStar causes the characters to not be fully drawn during the scrolling. Kind of like a "black static" blotting out the green. That latter problem might be normal, but the compressing screen on drive access thing looks a little worrying. How do I get the terminal emulation running? Do I need the boot disk for this, or is there some mode I can turn this thing on into, to get it to act as a terminal? I'd like the same kind of info on the TeleVideo, BTW. Mine is a TPC-1, the cool luggable one. I've got a copy of MDM803 that works on it, that was on the disks I got from the former owner. I also started writing my own terminal software for it (VERY basic, where I left it) and I still hadn't figured out the serial port hardware. I had to run my program, quit immediately, then run again or the system would hang. Basically, I need manuals for the TeleVideo quite badly. I'd especially like to know how to access the graphics... I have the TPCIDEMO program and a couple of other graphics demos, and the graphics are really impressive for that class of machine! Oh, BTW, I opened the Kaypro up, and it looks like there has been a modification made to it. The chip at U87 (markings were DM74LS390N) had a couple of wires soldered to it. Pin 1 was pulled out out of the socket, and a wire was soldered onto it connecting it to pin 6. Pin 9 was removed entirely. Pins 12 and 15 were also connected with a wire. Does anyone have any idea what this is? Is it a modification of some kind, or was it a correction made at the factory? > > Heh. This also sounds familiar. I have a CBM 2040 drive, sans fuse and > > cap. I know at least one of the drive units works, as I got a directory > > from a 1541 disk on my PET while holding a screwdriver in the fuse > > socket. Don't do this at home. :) > > I would get a panel mount fuse-holder from Radio Shack and replace it > (that is if the fuse-holder caps are incompatible), fortunately many of > the PET/CBM fuses are not PCboard mounted. I'll have to do SOMETHING. I mean, I grew up using the PET with cassettes, but I'm not quite so patient now, and I'd kind of like to do some stuff with the this machine. Mind you, I'd like to also get more memory for it somehow. I'm still running on 8K. Does anyone know if I can get some other chips to plonk in the sockets to give me more memory? > Larry Anderson Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 30 05:50:21 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Computers I have known In-Reply-To: <19970324.075753.10055.3.classicjr@juno.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Jeffrey G. Rottman wrote: > Eagle IIE Is this the same Eagle that now makes Amiga tower boxes? (BTW, it looks like Amiga is being bought by Gateway 2000.) > Dynologic Hyperion (Portable MS-DOS machine) Hey! I saw one of these only a few weeks ago. I'm kind of sorry I didn't pick it up. I think these were made locally (to me), in Montreal. I of course dismissed it as "just a DOS box", which generally don't interest me, but it'd be nice to have SOMETHING other than one of my VIC-20s that was made in Canada. > Wierdest hardware - Cromemco C-10 (a Monitor Box with Moterboard and > ports, separate drive boxes, and separate keyboard.) I have the Technical Reference Manual for this one (no, I'm not selling it. :) ). I fear that I had the chance to pick up the machine itself, but I didn't know what the heck I was looking at. At least, I remember there being a rather strange-looking monitor with tons of ports coming out of it at the Salvation Army store I go to, a couple of weeks before I found the manual (at the same store). This was before I realized how rapidly things disappear around there... I think I picked up an Atari 800XL that day instead. The thing was... heavy. And besides there being a lot of ports coming out of it, I wasn't entirely sure it wasn't just a terminal. The keyboard was with it, but no disk drives. Oh well, live and learn. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Mar 30 06:13:50 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: VTL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Alexios Chouchoulas wrote: > > I'm becoming more interested in Video Technology Ltd. It seems they made > > a lot of computers I've never heard of. > > And they were all sort-of-compatible to something else! Strangely enough, > they changed their choice of cloned machine every model and they weren't > particularly good at it, either. :-) Well, if my Laser 3000 is any indication, they weren't too good at making the machine extremely compatible with the one they were cloning, BUT they added tons of cool extra features that the original didn't have! Now if only all of the new features worked, I'd be a lot happier. :) I've really got to get my L3000 plugged in again soon. I had a lot of fun trying to figure that critter out. > Have fun! > Alexios > > --------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. ------------------------------- > Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88' alexios@vennea.demon.co.uk > The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc@dcs.ed.ac.uk Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jeffh at eleventh.com Sun Mar 30 05:07:44 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge Message-ID: At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and one called 'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212). I popped the cartridge into the VIC-20 and the computer still boots right into Basic 2.0. Is this some kind of debugging cartridge then that helps with errors and such? None of the cartridges I picked up came with the docs but the ones I've tried seem to work ok so far. Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color schemes for the labels? The Gorf and Radar Ratrace cartridges I already had both have cream cases with cream/brown/black labels. The new cartridges I got today have brown cases with silver/black labels, though some have off-white cases with silver/black lables, while one has and off-white case with a silver/gold label! All of these are from Commodore. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From ronaldm at mars.ark.com Sun Mar 30 18:22:56 1997 From: ronaldm at mars.ark.com (Ron Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? Message-ID: <199703310022.QAA17084@mars.ark.com> >At 07:22 AM 3/28/97 PST, you wrote: >>I'm about to become the proud owner of my first Osborne Computer. An >>"Executive" is being sent to me next week. I can't wait to get it going. > >Congratulations. They are neat beasts. >> internal Ram >>Disk known as "Drive C" or maybe a Bios upgrade, or some software. >> >>Anyone have a source for these items now? Such as the Ram Disk or maybe a >>Hard Disk upgrade?? > >Interesting you mention the "Drive C" unit, I have on e in my collection >but no software or docs. Anyone have any info on this critter? > Yes. Where are you? I have a manual that deals with both the hard drive and the Drive "C" attachment. Also have two drive "C" units. Have never been able to get them to work properly, and the docs don't help much. At any rate, the manual is a rather thick document and unfortunately, it's not mine to lend or sell at this point. Depending on what you want to know, I could photocopy exerpts. -Ron Mitchell From ronaldm at mars.ark.com Sun Mar 30 20:55:08 1997 From: ronaldm at mars.ark.com (Ron Mitchell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge Message-ID: <199703310255.SAA22386@mars.ark.com> JEFF>>> At a swap meet today, I picked up 9 VIC-20 cartridges as well as one JEFF>>> program tape. Among the VIC cartridges was a 16k RAM expansion and one called JEFF>> 'Programmers Aid Cartridge' (VIC-1212). Jeff, there is a 28 page manual that comes with that cart. Following quote might help get you started: Quote: After the VIC is inserted (the cartridge) type the following: SYS 28681 (and hit the return key) The VIC will display the following message: PROGRAMMER'S AID READY All of the AID commands are now included in your VIC's internal instruction set and may be used like any BASIC commands END QUOTE The cartridge adds 20 apecial editing commands to the VIC's instruction vocabulary and gives you an easy method for re-defining the VIC's programmable function keys. the commands are: AUTO FIND OFF CHANGE HELP PROG DELETE KEY RENUMBER DUMP KILL STEP EDIT MERGE TRACE CTRL A, E, L, N, Q, U also provide additional editing functions. Function keys are assigned various jobs; ie F1 is LIST, F3 is RUN, F5 is GOTO, F7 is INPUT Of course, there is more detail as to useage and some specific examples contained in the manual. Was just trying the thing out... hoping that the HELP command would provide some syntax examples for you. Unfortunately it doesn't. The HELP command will pinpoint a syntax error in your program if you use it directly after receiving an error message. Photocopying this short manual would cost me about $5. If you'll send me the money, I'll do it for you. JEFF>>> Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color schemes JEFF>> >for the labels? I have both. Don't know why it is so. Manufacturer's perrogative? -Ron Mitchell From transit at primenet.com Sun Mar 30 21:57:44 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com > -- > Collector of classic home computers: > > Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore > C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, > Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it? (I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about 4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them on tape, with it. . .) From transit at primenet.com Sun Mar 30 22:08:45 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid Cartridge In-Reply-To: <199703310255.SAA22386@mars.ark.com> Message-ID: > > JEFF>>> Also, can anyone explain the reasoning behind the different color > schemes > JEFF>> >for the labels? > > I have both. Don't know why it is so. Manufacturer's perrogative? Earlier on, the labels were color-coded as to software type (red for games, blue for education, etc. I don't know if that was the exact color code, though); later on, the color-coding was abandoned. > From jeffh at eleventh.com Sun Mar 30 12:16:52 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it? >(I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about >4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them >on tape, with it. . .) I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have for the Aquarius? Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Mar 30 23:59:29 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (Jim Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Osborne Accessories? In-Reply-To: <199703310022.QAA17084@mars.ark.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970330215929.00dcf4cc@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:22 PM 3/30/97 -0800, you wrote: >Yes. Where are you? I have a manual that deals with both the hard drive and >the Drive "C" attachment. Also have two drive "C" units. Have never been >able to get them to work properly, and the docs don't help much. At any >rate, the manual is a rather thick document and unfortunately, it's not mine >to lend or sell at this point. Depending on what you want to know, I could >photocopy exerpts. I'm in Oregon, and as to what I'd like to know about it... Probably would like to get a copy of the entire manual if possible for addition to the files in my collection. I'd be happy to pay the cost of copying and shipping. As I've never tried to fire it up, is there a specific set of drivers for it? Or perhaps an updated CP/M disk with the drivers coded in? Thanks -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From transit at primenet.com Mon Mar 31 09:33:00 1997 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > >You got one too? Have you ever been able to do much with it? > >(I picked up one for free at a flea market a few years back. Only about > >4K, but I was able to write some simple Basic programs, and even save them > >on tape, with it. . .) > > I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the > Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of > it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played > with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have > for the Aquarius? Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for sale . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From idavis at comland.com Mon Mar 31 13:42:40 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Attn: Jay Vaughan Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970331194240.008d4000@mail.comland.com > Please excuse the global post everyone, but Jay, if you could send me your email address, I will email you the fedex tracking number for your terminal. Thanks Isaac Davis : Doing the bull dance. idavis@comland.com : Feeling the flow. indavis@juno.com : Working it. Working it. From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 31 05:56:57 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was >discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were >promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for >sale . . . Actually, the only piece of documentation I have for mine shows a pic of all kinds of stuff hooked to it as well as a price list for the stuff. It's pretty interesting. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From dastar at crl.com Mon Mar 31 18:45:45 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >Just the machine itself, unfortunately (Remember, the Aquarius was > >discontinued just about the same time it hit the stores . . .) There were > >promises of memory expansion, disk drives, etc., but I never saw any for > >sale . . . > > Actually, the only piece of documentation I have for mine shows a pic of > all kinds of stuff hooked to it as well as a price list for the stuff. It's > pretty interesting. As I wrote in my previous message, I had the expansion box, the thermal printer, the tape drive, 2 games and some game controllers. I still have a manual that I found somewhere. It's the only tie I have to my childhood computer. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Mon Mar 31 18:43:40 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's Aid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Mar 1997, hellige wrote: > On 30-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: > > >> Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I've actually got two...One under the Mattel name, the other under the > Radofin name. Same machine though, as Radofin was the actual manufacturer of > it I believe. It's a pretty simple machine, but interesting. I've played > with the Basic somewhat, but haven't tried to do much. What all do you have > for the Aquarius? This was my very first computer. I still miss it to this day. I harbor few regrets in my life but one of them is selling this system with my atari 2600 to buy my first apple. The 2600 I've since replaced (ten fold) and I'm sure someday I'll run into another aquarius and will have it too, but I can never replace the programming I did on it. I had a comic book inventory database program and I wrote seevral simple arcade games. My setup was the aquarius with an expansion box that plugged into the expansion slot that allowed two carthridges to be plugged in simultaneously. This allowed a 4K memory expansion card to be plugged in along with other game carthridges which required the increased memory. I had a 4K mem carthridge, a couple games, keypad controllers, a thermal printer, and two tape drives. What a fun little system. Some day I will recoup all this gear. I just hope the kid I sold it too got as much use out of it as I did. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 31 19:41:59 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Weekend Scavenging Message-ID: Yep, it was another profitable weekend scavenging mission! The stats: New Machines: 5 New Periphs: 3 New Manuals: 2 New Disks/Software: 60+ Money Spent: $32 So... help me with this stuff! These are all machines I've never had before. 1. Franklin Ace 500. Seems to be a really nice Apple II clone. Problem is I don't have a power supply. Any chance the ratings are the same as a IIc supply? 2. Tandy Color Computer. Boasts a whopping 4k! Fixed a broken keyboard - now all I have to do is find some software. 3. Atari 800xl! Oops, I lied earlier. I used to have one and now have one again. It was new, still-shrinkwrapped! 4. Televideo 950 terminal. Seems to be a nice terminal for one of my cp/m boxes. 5. HP Series 100. This one doesn't currently work. It will probably be a project for some upcoming weekend. Anyone know what it is? Very strange little machine... Also picked up a commodore printer and 1571 disk drive. It was a good weekend ;) Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Mar 31 20:01:52 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? Message-ID: I was talking to a friend this weekend who brought up this idea that before long EPROMs in our old computers are going to start to go bad. This is something I've heard before but, to be honest, I don't know enough to make a judgement on it. If this is the case, I suppose I should be burning backups. While I'm at it... What are some other concerns along these lines. What should we be planning for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? Bill Whitson ClassicCmp "owner" bcw@u.washington.edu bill@booster.u.washington.edu From jeffh at eleventh.com Mon Mar 31 10:04:42 1997 From: jeffh at eleventh.com (hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Mattell Aquarius (was: Re: VIC-20 Programmer's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 31-Mar-97, classiccmp@u.washington.edu wrote: >This was my very first computer. I still miss it to this day. I harbor >few regrets in my life but one of them is selling this system with my >atari 2600 to buy my first apple. The 2600 I've since replaced (ten >fold) and I'm sure someday I'll run into another aquarius and will have >it too, but I can never replace the programming I did on it. I had a >comic book inventory database program and I wrote seevral simple arcade >games. My setup was the aquarius with an expansion box that plugged into >the expansion slot that allowed two carthridges to be plugged in >simultaneously. This allowed a 4K memory expansion card to be plugged in >along with other game carthridges which required the increased memory. I >had a 4K mem carthridge, a couple games, keypad controllers, a thermal >printer, and two tape drives. What a fun little system. Some day I will >recoup all this gear. I just hope the kid I sold it too got as much use >out of it as I did. Sam, Sounds like quite a system. From the picture on the flyer I have, the Aquarius hooked up to all the expansion gear was quite a sight as well. As has already been mentioned, I have two base Aquarius computers, one of which is the Mattel variant which I recently picked up on a whim. Would you be interested in this machine? It's fucntional,though needs a little cleaning up. You are welcome to it...just let me know. Jeff jeffh@eleventh.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- // Amiga: Today's Technology Ten Years Ago // ------------------------------------------------------- \// True 32bit pre-emptive multitasking GUI, plug&play hardware, \/ stereo sound, and 4096 color video modes since day #1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Collector of classic home computers: Amiga 1000, Atari 800, Atari 800XL, Atari Mega-ST/2, Commodore C-128 & C128D, Commodore Plus/4, Commodore VIC-20, Kaypro 2X, Mattel Aquarius, Osbourne Executive, Sinclair ZX-81, TI-99/4A, Timex-Sinclair 1000, TRS-80 Color Computer-3, and a TRS-80 Model 4. Plus Atari SuperPong and Atari 2600VCS game consoles. From spc at armigeron.com Fri Mar 28 20:54:28 1997 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 31, 97 06:01:52 pm Message-ID: <199704010254.VAA19332@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Bill Whitson once stated: > > While I'm at it... What are some other concerns > along these lines. What should we be planning > for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? Replacement parts. One of the newsgroups I follow (which is a shadow of a mailing list) there was major concernt over the availability of floppy drive controller chip (the 1773 I think). That particular chip isn't being made anymore. Also, on the subject, floppy disks. I've heard they have a shelf life of approximately 10 years, but so far (knock on formica) I've been lucky (although out of a box of 10 8" disks, only three were good). -spc (Oh, don't forget lack of documentation - I have tons of PC cards that may well be perfectly good, I just don't know how to set them up ... ) From pcoad at crl.com Mon Mar 31 20:45:25 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Bill, > > I was talking to a friend this weekend who brought > up this idea that before long EPROMs in our old > computers are going to start to go bad. This is > something I've heard before but, to be honest, I > don't know enough to make a judgement on it. If > this is the case, I suppose I should be burning > backups. > This is something about which to worry. > While I'm at it... What are some other concerns > along these lines. What should we be planning > for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? > My other worry is storage. Magnetic tapes and disks do not last forever. Hard disks do not last forever. How long until the last 8 incher finally gives up the ghost and sheds all of its bits? I know that there are still a few places which sell them, but how much longer will they be manufactured? How long until the last MFM hard drive wears out? Most manuals were not printed on acid free paper, how long until they start to turn to dust? How long do cassette tapes last? In 50 to 100 years how many of the machines that run fine today will not be usable because there are no disks on which to store programs or data? I have come across some solutions, though none of them are really optimal: Use a PC with a high grade sound card to store and load cassette data to older machines. I don't personally know if anyone has really done this. Store critical data (ROM images) on punched mylar tape. Store disk images on CDROM. (How long do these last? I've heard 50 years, can anyone confirm this?) This has the problem of moving the data from the CD to the target machine. I don't think that my PX-8 can understand ISO 9660 file systems. For the near term we can backup every disk we acquire. Pull out the old machines at least once a year and make new backups. Stockpile anything which will wear out. Keep everything clean, out of direct sunlight, and within a reasonable temperature range. Anyone have any really good long-term solutions for the preservation of our machines? --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From starling at umr.edu Fri Mar 28 21:20:33 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (Starling) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: from "Bill Whitson" at Mar 31, 97 06:01:52 pm Message-ID: <199704010320.VAA23487@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Yes, "bit rot" is a indeed an actual problem for cartridges and machines that use EPROMs. I've been collecting Atari 2600 and other videogame cartridges for a while now and collectors in that community have been dealing with it for a while. I'm not an electrical engineer, but as I understand it, it's not an actual problem with the hardware of the machine itself. It's just that the magnetic alignment in the EPROM (erasable programmable read only memory) disintigrates. However if you have a backup of the chip, it can be re-programed using an EPROM burner. I know that for Atari 2600 cartridges, only prototype and low-quality 3rd party cartridges were made with EPROMs in them. I'd be surprised if any machines actually use EPROMs to store the ROM kernels, but perhaps they do. If so, a list of affected machines should be made. Perhaps I should crack open the cases on the machines in my collection when I go back to Texas and see if any of them have EPROMs in them. > While I'm at it... What are some other concerns > along these lines. What should we be planning > for as these machines grow 5, 10, 15 years older? I've always wondered about the use of electrolytic capacitors in computers. I believe that these buggers go bad after a while and need to be replaced. Is this true? I've also always been concered about floppy disks going bad. Do they have a definately lifespan? If so, it might be hard to find new 5.25", 8" or 3.25" (a la Amstrad) disks on which to copy ailing files. chris starling From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Mar 28 23:20:47 1997 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: <199704010320.VAA23487@saucer.cc.umr.edu> from "Starling" at Mar 31, 97 09:20:33 pm Message-ID: <199704010520.WAA16425@calico.litterbox.com> Dunno about roms and eproms, but I have radios that are 50 years old and yeah, electrolytic caps do have a finite lifespan. They dry out. Mind, these are the old wax-cardboard wrapped kind and not the kind in the metal cans. But unless you're dealing with eniac and it's tube fired bretheren I'd not yet worry about your caps - or your resistors - yet. Also bear in mind that tube radio equipment gets a lot hotter than your computer does inside (right?) -- Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com -- By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes. The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction! By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion. Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_ From george.lin at documentum.com Mon Mar 31 22:20:06 1997 From: george.lin at documentum.com (George Lin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970331202006.00a6f100@lion.documentum.com> At 06:45 PM 3/31/97 -0800, you wrote: >Use a PC with a high grade sound card to store and load cassette data to >older machines. I don't personally know if anyone has really done this. Good idea! I have not tried it but I think it should work. After you made the recordings, you can burn the sound files onto CD-ROMs for permanent archive. I know there are some computer emulators that do the opposite. You play your old cassette data through the sound card and the emulators will decode the "noise" into bits. George -- George Lin "Accelerating your business through Network Architect, MIS enterprise document managment." Documentum, Inc. (Nasdaq: DCTM) http://www.documentum.com Inet Fax: mailto:remote-printer.George_Lin@4.3.8.6.3.6.4.0.1.5.1.tpc.int My PGP Public Key for encryption is at http://george.home.ml.org/pgp.htm From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Sat Mar 29 00:24:33 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: How long will they last? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970331202006.00a6f100@lion.documentum.com> from "George Lin" at Mar 31, 97 08:20:06 pm Message-ID: <199704010624.WAA21421@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 724 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970331/63787507/attachment-0001.ksh From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Sat Mar 29 00:26:39 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: Attn: Jay Vaughan In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970331194240.008d4000@mail.comland.com > from "Isaac Davis" at Mar 31, 97 01:42:40 pm Message-ID: <199704010626.WAA21435@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 499 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970331/9b282d39/attachment-0001.ksh From lists at phx6.phxmedia.com Sat Mar 29 00:38:51 1997 From: lists at phx6.phxmedia.com (Lists at phxmedia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:27:03 2005 Subject: The Sexy ORIC!!!! Message-ID: <199704010638.WAA21540@phx6.phxmedia.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970331/efaac96b/attachment-0001.ksh