From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Aug 1 00:45:52 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:05 2005 Subject: Lodi, CA: Computer Warehouse Clearance... References: <199707310702.AAA09123@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <33E17810.2AFE@goldrush.com> About a month or so back I reported to you about one of the California central valley area's used computer stores doing a 'warehouse sale' every Saturday... Well they have lost their lease on their warehouse and are looking to clear it all out by the end of August. Details: The Computer Store running the sale is 'Allen's to Go' and are located at 13461 Highway 88 in Lokeford, their store phone number is (209) 727-0477. The sale is being held on Saturdays from 8:00am till Noon in a greenhouse at a former nursery. You can find it about 5 miles east of Lodi, Calif. on Highway 12; the address is 10400 Highway 12 (heading from Lodi it would be to your right). Marie Templin, the owner who is usually there, said 'the more you buy the better price your gonna get.' Last week was the annoucement and business was slow that day so it hasn't been picked over much yet. What's there: - Alot of Commodore 64 and PET stuff retired from the Lodi Schools - Many old IBM and clone cases, power supplies, motherboards, drives (INCLUDING OLD HARD DRIVES, BRING YOUR LISTS GUYS!) - A small amount of some Mac related Jasmine Drives (external HDs, syquest, etc.) -lots of monitors in various states of repair and dis-repair -Old laser printers, old copiers, old phonographs, a couple microfiche readers, a couple projectors -dot-matrix printers, cables, etc. The three or so Osbornes are still there as well as all the Apple II+'s IIe's, IIc's, III's, drives, etc. You have until the end of August... Don't delay! Larry Anderson ------ P.S. Marie is looking for stuff/resources for a PC jr. owner... If you know of any let her know. ------ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 1 01:05:54 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:05 2005 Subject: Lodi, CA: Computer Warehouse Clearance... References: <199707310702.AAA09123@lists2.u.washington.edu> <33E17810.2AFE@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <33E17CC2.C24BAF79@rain.org> Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > P.S. Marie is looking for stuff/resources for a PC jr. owner... If > you > know of any let her know. What type of "stuff/resources" is she looking for? From foxnhare at goldrush.com Fri Aug 1 00:45:52 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:27 2005 Subject: Lodi, CA: Computer Warehouse Clearance... References: <199707310702.AAA09123@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <33E17810.2AFE@goldrush.com> About a month or so back I reported to you about one of the California central valley area's used computer stores doing a 'warehouse sale' every Saturday... Well they have lost their lease on their warehouse and are looking to clear it all out by the end of August. Details: The Computer Store running the sale is 'Allen's to Go' and are located at 13461 Highway 88 in Lokeford, their store phone number is (209) 727-0477. The sale is being held on Saturdays from 8:00am till Noon in a greenhouse at a former nursery. You can find it about 5 miles east of Lodi, Calif. on Highway 12; the address is 10400 Highway 12 (heading from Lodi it would be to your right). Marie Templin, the owner who is usually there, said 'the more you buy the better price your gonna get.' Last week was the annoucement and business was slow that day so it hasn't been picked over much yet. What's there: - Alot of Commodore 64 and PET stuff retired from the Lodi Schools - Many old IBM and clone cases, power supplies, motherboards, drives (INCLUDING OLD HARD DRIVES, BRING YOUR LISTS GUYS!) - A small amount of some Mac related Jasmine Drives (external HDs, syquest, etc.) -lots of monitors in various states of repair and dis-repair -Old laser printers, old copiers, old phonographs, a couple microfiche readers, a couple projectors -dot-matrix printers, cables, etc. The three or so Osbornes are still there as well as all the Apple II+'s IIe's, IIc's, III's, drives, etc. You have until the end of August... Don't delay! Larry Anderson ------ P.S. Marie is looking for stuff/resources for a PC jr. owner... If you know of any let her know. ------ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 1 01:05:54 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:28 2005 Subject: Lodi, CA: Computer Warehouse Clearance... References: <199707310702.AAA09123@lists2.u.washington.edu> <33E17810.2AFE@goldrush.com> Message-ID: <33E17CC2.C24BAF79@rain.org> Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > P.S. Marie is looking for stuff/resources for a PC jr. owner... If > you > know of any let her know. What type of "stuff/resources" is she looking for? From bcoakley at teleport.com Fri Aug 1 02:25:04 1997 From: bcoakley at teleport.com (Ben Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:28 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: <33E15EB3.A6C0BEAD@rain.org> Message-ID: Well, this is sort of a general question, and I'm sure somebody here can answer it, but it fits with the subject line, at least: There's a TRS-80 model 2000 in a local thrift (same one where I got a Commodore Plus 4 in its original box today). It's a beautiful machine, about the size of the crummy XT clones lying around, with two floppies and a CM-1 monitor. What else is hiding in there? It doesn't, perhaps, have a hard drive, does it? The case could certainly hold it. Thanks, -- Ben Coakley CBEL: Xavier OH bcoakley@teleport.com http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Aug 1 02:56:00 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:28 2005 Subject: Free Computer Books & Stuff! References: <33DABF38.2775@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: <33E19690.35D4@oboe.calpoly.edu> All of the books mentioned in this post are spoken for. Thanks for all the response! I'm still digging and will probably add some more stuff soon. Greg > TRS-80 Model 100 Manuals: > Apple Lot: > Commodore Geos Lot: From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 1 02:37:23 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:28 2005 Subject: First Annual Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: I've decided to go ahead with plans for the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival!!! This is a call to all parties interested in participating with the planning and development of the show. I have directed this e-mail to specific individuals in my local area (sorry if I missed anyone) as well as to the entire classiccmp group. I welcome your support and would appreciate if you who are local could pledge your help in developing and participating in the show. I also welcome and would appreciate the support of anyone not local to the San Francisco Bay Area who is interested in donating your time to the show. Please contact me if you are interested. I hope to assemble the core development team within the next week and to hold a kick-off party on Saturday, August 9th where a team will be assembled, the project will be discussed and team members will be assigned tasks. I am hoping to run the show during a weekend in the middle of October. Currently, as I have it layed out, there are a couple hundred man hours of work to be done in order to pull this off. I think with enough people committed, this can be pulled off in time to host the show by October. Please e-mail me if interested. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From kevan at motiv.co.uk Fri Aug 1 03:56:28 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:28 2005 Subject: Some machines available... Message-ID: <199708010856.JAA15822@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi all, I recently got an email offering me these computers... > If you ship it you can have them. I havev one of the largest > commulations of computers and related in the north east US. I am culling > out so this is an opportunity to get lots of stuff. How about the whole > line of IBM xt, at ps2 model 30, 55, 50 , 50z,70 just to name a few > come over or call or email me. holmstea@idt.net 802-985-8081 I am in > Vermont.USA I said I wasn't interested and in reply I got: > forgive me for being so presumptious I have also Heith H8 a DPS6 a > Charles River Universe 68, Nec starlets cpm, digital rainbows. digital > RAO80 zilog 8000 IBM system 36's lots more!!! If anybody is interested then contact him directly. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From rcini at msn.com Fri Aug 1 07:37:03 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Model 100 Stuff: What's a DVI Message-ID: To all of those that asked what the Model 100 DVI is... Ths Disk-Video Interface is a rectangular box (mostly hollow), the size of half of a PC which enables the Model 100 to use 5-1/4" floppy disks and to hook-up to a standard composite monitor or a TV on channel 3 or 4. It could display 40x24 or 80x24 characters. Costing around $500, the unit typically (and I'd have to dig-out an old catalog to check; it's been a while) came with 1 or 2 floppy disk drives and had a built-in power supply. The companion monitor (an optional-extra) was a composite green-screen. The included diskette was for a simple disk-based DOS wedge for BASIC. Connection to the M100 was accomplished through a shielded, flat, 40-pin ribbon cable with a custom pin arangement that attached to the 40-pin DIP socket on the bottom of the M100. The standard DIP socket on the M100 was retrofitted with a ZIF socket to ease the stress on the cable. The insulation-displacement connector on the M100 side pearced the cable in a non-standard way, preventing meer mortals from making a cable on their own with parts from Digi-Key--I tried! BTW, replacements are $24 from Tandy Parts. As an aside, DOS disks are $5. As far as I know, the DVI came out before the other floppy drives for the M100, the PDD1 and PDD2. I hope that this clears things up. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From rcini at msn.com Fri Aug 1 07:37:12 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Hacking TI Calculator Interface Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:52:36 -0400 (EDT) John Ruschmeyer wrote: >>Two places to check out: http://www.ticalc.org news:bit.listserv.calc-ti I beleive there are plans floating around for a $5 interface cable. Also, lots of 3rd party apps for the '85.<< John: Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out. Last night, for those hardware-hackers out there, I started developing a level shifter using a Maxxim MAX232 chip which draws power from the DSR line and has a couple of low-power LED indicators. I'm just trying to fit it into a DB9 shell... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Fri Aug 1 07:58:24 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Weekend haul Message-ID: <199708010858_MC2-1C24-62F5@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >The SX-64 documentation makes reference to a DX-64. What's that -- 2 drives?< That was the plan; however, the DX model was never released. There are reports of a few of them floating around, but probably prototypes or user-hacked versions. From scott at saskatoon.com Fri Aug 1 08:52:23 1997 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Ben Coakley wrote: > There's a TRS-80 model 2000 in a local thrift (same one where I got a > Commodore Plus 4 in its original box today). It's a beautiful machine, > about the size of the crummy XT clones lying around, with two floppies and > a CM-1 monitor. What else is hiding in there? It doesn't, perhaps, have > a hard drive, does it? The case could certainly hold it. That machine is an 80186! (Nope, that's not a typo.) It's really not 'IBM' compatible, although it runs MS-DOS 2. That machine obviously must have the color card, if it comes with the CM-1 (I'd love one of those.) The 2k sported several big enhancements over the PC. The faster 186, 720k floppies (DSQD), 600x400x16colors, full 16 bit expansion slots. Overall it's a really cool machine. That's probably why it didn't survive. Some had a hard drive. If it was factory installed, the nameplate should read 'Model 2000HD.' You might also look for any labelling on the back. The HD controller might have some sort of stickers on it. (The cards are the long, 1/2" high metal strips on the back.) > Ben Coakley CBEL: Xavier OH bcoakley@teleport.com ttfn srw From idavis at comland.com Fri Aug 1 11:11:26 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Mainframe FS Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970801161126.008fd7ec@mail.comland.com> I don't know how old this is, or if it qualifies as classic, but I saw this on the local austin.forsale newsgroup. ============================================== Subject: Mainfame for trade STILL!!! From: Scratch Date: 1997/07/28 Message-Id: <33DCB872.6B74@tab.com> Newsgroups: austin.forsale [More Headers] I have a UNYSIS 2200/400 mainframe with 1210lpm impact printer and 6' hard disk tower with 10- 8" 1 gig Fujitsu drives. I can't seem to sell it so I will offer to trade it for anything MAC. QuadraAV or better. Or Sony 17" + monitor. -- Ron E. Marks scratch@tab.com http://www.tab.com/~scratch/home.html Austin, Texas ============================================ Hope this helps someone. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis@comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 1 11:25:19 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970801161126.008fd7ec@mail.comland.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Isaac Davis wrote: > ============================================== > Subject: Mainfame for trade STILL!!! > From: Scratch > Date: 1997/07/28 > Message-Id: <33DCB872.6B74@tab.com> > Newsgroups: austin.forsale > [More Headers] > > I have a UNYSIS 2200/400 mainframe with 1210lpm impact printer and 6' > hard disk tower with 10- 8" 1 gig Fujitsu drives. > > I can't seem to sell it so I will offer to trade it for anything MAC. > QuadraAV or better. Or Sony 17" + monitor. Well, Mac Quadra's are cheap these days (only a few hundred dollars) so if you think the Unisys is worth a few hundred dollars, go buy a cheap Mac and trade it with him. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 1 13:28:15 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 1, 97 09:25:19 am Message-ID: <9708011728.AA10371@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 856 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/f7cc099b/attachment.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 1 08:43:28 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: <9708011728.AA10371@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 1, 97 09:25:19 am Message-ID: <199708011741.NAA13904@mail.cgocable.net> Well, I ask: Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive SMD drives in between? Sorry if I look foolish. :) Thanks! Jason D. > The 1 gig Fujitsu SMD drives (I assume these are 238x's or 239x's) are > commonly sold by mini dealers for several hundred dollars each. > Take a look in one of the mini rags (like _Processor_) > for price sheets. > > I just bought about 1300 lbs. of SMD drives, otherwise I'd be > interested in grabbing some of the above-mentioned Fujitsus for my own PC. > > Tim. > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 1 16:11:16 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: <199708011741.NAA13904@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca" at Aug 1, 97 01:43:28 pm Message-ID: <9708012011.AA09734@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/144e1719/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 1 17:17:40 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. Message-ID: For $18 I got... a DW11-A Unibus to Q-Bus interface! One quad height and one double height board. I'm assuming the Quad-height one is the Unibus end. All I need are the ribbon cables to connect them... and an M8012-YA Qbus Terminator/Bootstrap. What does this boot? From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 1 17:34:40 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Some machines available... References: <199708010856.JAA15822@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <33E26480.88B56F32@rain.org> Kevan Heydon wrote: > > If you ship it you can have them. I havev one of the largest > > commulations of computers and related in the north east US. I am > culling > > out so this is an opportunity to get lots of stuff. How about the > whole > > line of IBM xt, at ps2 model 30, 55, 50 , 50z,70 just to name a few > > > come over or call or email me. holmstea@idt.net 802-985-8081 I am in > > > Vermont.USA I just talked with Harold (Harold Olmstead) and he wasn't kidding when he said it was a LARGE collection. It sounds like the total collection is somewhere in the 3+ semis full of computers with, volumewise, about 20% being mainframes, 30% being minis, and the rest micros along with monitors, printers, etc. He also has a lot of documentation and software to go along with some of this stuff. I wish I lived next door!!! He is moving to New Jersey and would like to do something in the next month or so. He indicated if anyone is interested, to just give him a call or email. He has talked with a number of other people and while he doesn't currently have a list of these computers, will start to put one together with the things he has. Trying to move a collection that large is not financially feasible for myself, but if anyone else here on the West Coast is interested, I'm willing to co-ordinate whatever is necessary to bring some of or all of the collection back here. I told him I would post a note to that effect here on the listserver so he would be aware of what might be going on, and it was fine with him. It is difficult to do anything without a list of the equipment involved, but hopefully that will be forthcoming! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 1 18:36:32 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 1, 97 05:17:40 pm Message-ID: <9708012236.AA10738@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/049a4f5b/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 1 17:47:47 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. In-Reply-To: <9708012236.AA10738@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > The default boot ROM's know how to do RL01/02, RX01/02, RK05, and > (I think - never tried it) TU58. You can also blow your own PROM's > with other bootstraps (i.e. DU: for MSCP disks) if you wish. > How do you tell it which device to boot? There are two switches on it. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 1 14:07:39 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Some machines available... In-Reply-To: <33E26480.88B56F32@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708012307.TAA26025@mail.cgocable.net> Hello! Just let us know with this decent list of stuff. :) I was looking for Model 70 that has 25mhz cached 386 CPU. (my long time wish and reputated to be fastest PC of its time) that all. And, compaq stuff? Snip! Impressively partial list of stuff... > > I just talked with Harold (Harold Olmstead) and he wasn't kidding when > he said it was a LARGE collection. It sounds like the total collection > is somewhere in the 3+ semis full of computers with, volumewise, about > 20% being mainframes, 30% being minis, and the rest micros along with > monitors, printers, etc. He also has a lot of documentation and > software to go along with some of this stuff. I wish I lived next > door!!! He is moving to New Jersey and would like to do something in > the next month or so. He indicated if anyone is interested, to just > give him a call or email. He has talked with a number of other people > and while he doesn't currently have a list of these computers, will > start to put one together with the things he has. > > Trying to move a collection that large is not financially feasible for > myself, but if anyone else here on the West Coast is interested, I'm > willing to co-ordinate whatever is necessary to bring some of or all of > the collection back here. I told him I would post a note to that effect > here on the listserver so he would be aware of what might be going on, > and it was fine with him. It is difficult to do anything without a list > of the equipment involved, but hopefully that will be forthcoming! I would agree that is where we would need to split up all the hardware and mail to each who wants specific stuff. Jason D. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 1 19:36:11 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 1, 97 05:17:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1466 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/9cd5e412/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 1 22:02:38 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. Message-ID: <199708020302.AA20470@world.std.com> Mr Seagraves finds... from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 1, 97 05:47:47 pm Message-ID: <9708020512.AA12235@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 825 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/cde2820b/attachment.ksh From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sat Aug 2 05:39:26 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info Message-ID: <199708021039.GAA13318@unix.aardvarkol.com> At 07:52 AM 8/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >That machine is an 80186! (Nope, that's not a typo.) It's really not >'IBM' compatible, although it runs MS-DOS 2. That machine obviously must >have the color card, if it comes with the CM-1 (I'd love one of those.) >The 2k sported several big enhancements over the PC. The faster 186, 720k >floppies (DSQD), 600x400x16colors, full 16 bit expansion slots. Overall >it's a really cool machine. That's probably why it didn't survive. As long as programmers used BIOS calls instead of writing directly to the video hardware and such, the 2k would run a lot of PC software just fine. I've got a list around here somewhere of what PC software was known to work with it. I ran the basic PC versions of Wordstar and Norton Utilities on mine for a long time, though things such as Framework required special video drivers. Also, communications programs didn't like the machine, unless they used a fossil driver to access the serial port, such as GTPower. I enjoyed making new fonts for the machine to boot into, as it's system font was loaded into RAM on startup, making it quite customizable. As for the CM-1, that is one nice monitor. I never could find one though, so I ended up using an early NEC Multisync on mine for a while. >Some had a hard drive. If it was factory installed, the nameplate should >read 'Model 2000HD.' You might also look for any labelling on the back. >The HD controller might have some sort of stickers on it. (The cards are >the long, 1/2" high metal strips on the back.) My 2k started life as a dual-floppy model, and then I added a Seagate ST-225 internally later. I was kind of a pain finding the piggyback hard disk power supply and mounting bracket for the drive though! I also had the color video board, 640k RAM, and a clock/mouse board. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sat Aug 2 05:46:19 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: MicroVax II Message-ID: <199708021046.GAA13569@unix.aardvarkol.com> Well, it looks like I may be rescuing, or at least try to, a MicroVax II on monday. There is a local business, about 30 miles from here, that wants to dispose of one, and I got contacted to try and rescue it. According to the guy I talked to, it has 2-35meg HD's, and 5meg of RAM in it, and I'd just be getting the main system unit. Could someone give me some general info on this machine, such as a guess as to the weight of it? Thanks. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kyrrin at wizards.net Sat Aug 2 08:59:34 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <199708020702.AAA00838@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970802065934.00e15cc0@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 02-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:43:28 +0000 >From: jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS >Message-ID: <199708011741.NAA13904@mail.cgocable.net> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >Well, I ask: > >Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive >SMD drives in between? Not foolish at all! ;-) There is indeed at least one SCSI/SMD bridge board I know of. Adaptec made them, but they're not easy to find. Model number was ACB-5580. I have exactly ONE of these that I need to hang onto to test drives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at wizards.net Sat Aug 2 09:08:13 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Impossible? Not! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970802070813.00f84d10@mail.wizards.net> Someone sent me an E-mail not long ago that, in a very confident tone, advised me that my quest to find an RRD40 or RRD50 would fail, as the controllers were 'impossible' to find. Never say 'Impossible!' to a technoid. ;-) I just closed a deal for TWO RRD40 CD drives, one controller, cabling, and technical manual, all for $65 + shipping & COD charge. As a point of interest, another company out of Chico, CA offered me an RRD50 for $40, and a controller for $125! (sheesh!) I've told them (politely) no, thanks, on the controller. However, it occurs to me that there may not be any difference in the controller for the RRD40 and RRD50. Allison or Tim? Is this, in fact, a true statement? Can either drive be used with the M7552 controller? If so, I'll just order the drive from them and hunt around for another controller later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Aug 2 05:17:20 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970802065934.00e15cc0@mail.wizards.net> References: <199708020702.AAA00838@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199708021417.KAA19490@mail.cgocable.net> Hello! :) > > > >Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive > >SMD drives in between? > > > > Not foolish at all! ;-) There is indeed at least one SCSI/SMD bridge board > I know of. Adaptec made them, but they're not easy to find. Model number > was ACB-5580. Wonderful...now, what exactly how expensive are used pulls SMD 1gb or up drives are? Suppose I now I have the little dandy SCSI/SMD bridge board and a normal SCSI host controller in a PC driving whole thing and even boot from that SMD drive? There is performance difference between the 3.5" middle of the range SCSI II fast to a good SMD hd? > I have exactly ONE of these that I need to hang onto to test drives. Pout... :) If responses looks good, why not if I would get 8" SMD drive and amaze them with it on a PC. :)) Snickers! :) Jason D. PS: thanks for correcting me 'bout the homemade Ti graph link. In fact, I am glad that is possible to do that, btw, I have that Ti 83. The screen is much better than the older types and just bit faster. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:20:39 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <199708021417.KAA19490@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca" at Aug 2, 97 10:17:20 am Message-ID: <9708021620.AA12875@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 370 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/657198f9/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:24:20 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Impossible? Not! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970802070813.00f84d10@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 2, 97 07:08:13 am Message-ID: <9708021624.AA12617@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 946 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/f2027332/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:28:52 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: MicroVax II In-Reply-To: <199708021046.GAA13569@unix.aardvarkol.com> from "Jeff Hellige" at Aug 2, 97 06:46:19 am Message-ID: <9708021628.AA06151@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 987 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/405b5bef/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:54:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <9708021620.AA12875@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 2, 97 09:20:39 am Message-ID: <9708021654.AA12817@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/5d7e0d6e/attachment.ksh From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Aug 2 14:09:46 1997 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Litton Industries's Monrobot XI? Message-ID: <33E385F9.620F@xlisper.mv.com> Has anyone ever heard of the Litton Industries's Monrobot XI? It's the first computer I ever programmed. This was back around 1967. It was a machine built into a desk with an electric typewriter and a papertape reader. I'd love to find one or any information about them. I've got an old programming card for Quickcomp, an assembly level language for it but that's all. I'd also like to find an IBM 1620 although that machine is probably too big for the space I have available. -- David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz@aol.com (603) 472-2389 From gram at terra.cnct.com Sat Aug 2 18:37:32 1997 From: gram at terra.cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: <33E15EB3.A6C0BEAD@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Marvin wrote: > went along with them. He is willing to help however he can. He also > turned my on to another guy active with TRS stuff, Dave Lagerquist. > Dave took over as editor-in-chief of CLOAD Magazine in July 1980. On > top of that, Dave lives here in Santa Barbara, so another part of my > project will be compiling a history of CLOAD magazine. So if any of you > TRS people have any questions for either Brian or Dave, pass them Along with "CLOAD", don't neglect "Chromasette" and "SilverSoft". Those were the cassette and disk magazines for the Color Computer and the PC respectively. Good stuff. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From scm at smorang.enm.maine.edu Sat Aug 2 20:08:13 1997 From: scm at smorang.enm.maine.edu (Stacy C. Morang) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Televideo TS1603 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > Its a Televideo 1603. What's interesting about this system for one thing > is that it was made by Televideo, whom I thought only made terminals. It > has two 5.25" floppies integrated with a green monochrome monitor on a > swivel armature and a detached keyboard. On the back are two DB-25 serial > ports, a D-type connector RS-422 port, a telephone jack for a mouse (which > I didn't get), and two dipswitch blocks. Inside it has an 8088 and a > 6502! I was talking to Doug Coward tonight about it and he suggested that > the 6502 was for the terminal operation, and the 8088 was actually the > main processor. This makes sense, but I was wondering if anyone knew more > about it. > I may have some software for it... but it's not handy right now (stored away) - drop me a note if you need it (I'd bet that it is an old ms-dos or cp/m set, but it might have some unique televideo bits to it. > WAITING FOR HARD DISK..... > > on the WD controller chip. I think perhaps the RS-422 port is where > you'd hook the hard drive to. Really? Seems more like a balanced line serial port (I have a dim recollection that 422 and 423 are the same, and 423 definitely is balanced rs-232, unless I'm completely off). -stacy -- Stacy C. Morang, Communications Specialist Education Network of Maine scm@access.enm.maine.edu, smorang@enm.maine.edu So long, and keep your stick on the ice. From gram at terra.cnct.com Sat Aug 2 20:52:45 1997 From: gram at terra.cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Ben Coakley wrote: > There's a TRS-80 model 2000 in a local thrift (same one where I got a > Commodore Plus 4 in its original box today). It's a beautiful machine, > about the size of the crummy XT clones lying around, with two floppies and > a CM-1 monitor. What else is hiding in there? It doesn't, perhaps, have > a hard drive, does it? The case could certainly hold it. If it has two floppies, the odds are that it doesn't have a hard drive, though the upgrade was available at a usurous price. Then again, a 2000HD could have a second floppy added, another rare choice. It is indeed a beautiful machine. It's not PC compatible in hardware, since there wasn't a standard 16-bit bus until the AT came out a year later and 25% slower. But in my arrogant opinion, it had the best keyboard ever attached to a MS-DOS computer -- mine was (aside from being my main telecom machine for years) my favorite terminal to my Model 16 and my 3B1. It also was a nifty serial/parallel converter (with 512k buffer) between everything else and my MX-80 (512k is about a night's worth of printing on an early MX-80, after all). -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 2 21:48:55 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: Televideo TS1603 Message-ID: <199708030248.AA07149@world.std.com> Message-ID: <33E28387.7BB4@goldrush.com> RE: Enrico's Query about Apple IIs... I looked the first time I went to the sale and found mainly ][ pluses, a couple ][es (one with extended keyboard, a couple ][cs, and a few ]I[s... But If I see a ][, I'll see about getting it... RE: Marvin about PCjr help... I think the customer has a PCjr or Two and is looking for expansion stuff and programs for it... I dunno, best I could suggest to her was an area thrift store which always seems to have PCjrs coming in... :/ Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From kyrrin at wizards.net Sun Aug 3 11:13:39 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: <199708030702.AAA09506@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970803091339.00f79e50@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 03-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 06:46:19 -0400 >From: Jeff Hellige >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: MicroVax II >Message-ID: <199708021046.GAA13569@unix.aardvarkol.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Well, it looks like I may be rescuing, or at least try to, a >MicroVax II on monday. There is a local business, about 30 miles from here, >that wants to dispose of one, and I got contacted to try and rescue it. >According to the guy I talked to, it has 2-35meg HD's, and 5meg of RAM in >it, and I'd just be getting the main system unit. Could someone give me >some general info on this machine, such as a guess as to the weight of it? Weight: About 40-50 lbs. Not bad at all, really. Some PC full-towers tip the scales around there. Sizewise, they're about as tall as a full-tower, but deeper and skinnier. You can probably lift one in your arms without a huge problem. With the hardware that's in it, you could easily run OpenVMS, MicroVMS, regular VMS (I think -- someone check me on that, please?), Ultrix, or NetBSD. I know the guy I wrote to said there were no docs or diags with it, but... if by some miracle he was wrong, I'd like to get a copy of any diagnostics that you might get with it. Best of luck, and thanks for responding! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From s-ware at nwu.edu Sun Aug 3 11:22:06 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles In-Reply-To: <9708012011.AA09734@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: Does anyone know of a good source of the "ubiquitous" DEC keys, specifically one of the normal keys (for a PDP-11/10) and one of the cylindrical keys (for a PDP-11/24)? Otherwise, if anyone has a stash of spares or is willing to make duplicates, let me know. Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. The only place on this machine that looks like a likely candidate for console connection is a double height module (an M9970 Berg backplane connector) that is essentially unpopulated except for traces connecting the backplane to a single Berg connector. Is this the serial interface? If so, are there any configuration options (on another board), or am I stuck using what I assume is a fixed 110 baud 20 mA current loop interface (or digging up something else, such as a DL11-W)? -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Aug 3 12:34:20 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970803091339.00f79e50@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 3, 97 09:13:39 am Message-ID: <9708031634.AA13615@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2526 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970803/9ab11219/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Aug 3 12:44:26 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:29 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles In-Reply-To: from "Scott Ware" at Aug 3, 97 11:22:06 am Message-ID: <9708031644.AA13487@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1710 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970803/b47b2abc/attachment.ksh From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Sun Aug 3 17:59:59 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles Message-ID: <009B83BF.85EE23F5.23@siva.bris.ac.uk> >There are three sorts of commonly-found DEC keys: > >1. The metal cylinder-lock keys. These are found on -8's, most older (pre Didn't the 8/a have a PDP11/34-style knob for the power switch and no key at all? >11/24, 11/44, 11/84, 11/94) Unibux -11's, and some other boxes. These >are standard ACE cylinder keys, with pattern # XX2247. Any competent >locksmith ought to be able to make one of these for you (though you >may need to be friendly with the locksmith - almost all ACE keys are >stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE"). > >2. The plastic cylinder keys. As of a few months ago, you could still >order these from DECDirect (1-800-DIGITAL) - the part number is 1217119-01. In my experience, key [1] will fit locks designed for key [2], but not vice versa. I use the XX2247 that came with my 11/45 for the 11/45, the 8/e, the DECSA, the 11/24, the 11/44, the 11/730, etc. Since lock [2] has no pins, probably just about any Ace tubular key will fit it. Lock [1] is a 'real' lock, however. >> Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. >> The only place on this machine that looks like a likely candidate for >> console connection is a double height module (an M9970 Berg backplane >> connector) that is essentially unpopulated except for traces connecting >> the backplane to a single Berg connector. Is this the serial interface? >> If so, are there any configuration options (on another board), or am I >> stuck using what I assume is a fixed 110 baud 20 mA current loop interface >> (or digging up something else, such as a DL11-W)? > >I'm not sure what the answer to this is. I thought the standard >console interface on a 11/10 was a DL11-W. Have you tried asking >on "vmsnet.pdp-11" on Usenet? Not at all : Both the 11/10 and 11/10S have a console port on the CPU board. On the 11/10S it's possible to disable this (fit/remove a link on one of the boards), and use a DL11 of some flavour instead. On the 5.25" box, the console port is the 40-pin BERG on the back of the CPU under the power cable. It's cabled to the backplane, where it is connected to the appropriate pins on the CPU board. I don't own a 10.5" 11/10, but I have worked on one. From memort, there is, indeed a dual-height card which contains the console connector (40 pin BERG) and no logic. Can't remember the M-number, and my prints are at home. It's the standard DEC serial connector. Current loop is certainly there, and I think at least one of the TTL and/or EIA connections are there as well. This may depend on which CPU board set you have, however. I seem to recall pinouts/cable lists are on one of the PDP_8_ web sites. 11/10's use an RC clock for the baud rate generator. It's tweakable by a preset on one of the boards - check it at pin 40 of the UART (the only 40 pin chip in the CPU), and set to 16 times the baud rate. I think the 11/10S uses an Xtal clock, and there's a switch to set standard rates. The RC clock does 110 baud as standard, but can be tweaked at least to 300 baud. You can change (reduce) the timing capacitor to get higher rates, of course. > >Tim. -tony From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Aug 3 13:51:53 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Warehouse Sale... References: <199708030702.AAA09506@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <33E4D349.5954@goldrush.com> Well went out there and picked through stuff again... Lets see today's tab was $30 for: 2 monitors (1702 & CM-141, both Commodore color composite/split composite) early VIC-20 (with the older 9v only adapter) Jupiter Lander Cart for VIC-20 Commodore 4022 Tractor Printer (IEEE-488) Commodore 4040 dual disk drive Commodore PC-40 III enclosure (still has motherboard (drives have been removed) Box o' cables & stuff including IEEE-488 cables, video cables, serial cables, a couple epoxy brick supplies, a pair of atari paddles and a pair of atari driving controllers. There is still have at least a dozen PETs there but I havent the space for more (hopefully I'll make more room before the sale is over...) Also a bunch of 1702s and CM141s, and lots of 64s, VIC-20s and 1541s... Other computers of note... No apple ][s Enrico, and I saw someone pick up the two ][c's for $5 each. There were a couple Compupro 8/somethings.. They looked heavy (given one was opened and I saw one of the biggest transformers I have ever seen), had a about 8 or ten of cards in it... the Osbornes are still there... ALOT of stuff, more then I could report. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- On a side note, recently I have been fortunate in finding alot of low density disks (5.25 and 3.5") at thrift stores for less then I can get them bulk (from $1 to $2 a package of 10 or more), many of which haven't even been used. Those of us with computers requiring such disks sould make sure to check for them during your thrift shopping. :) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Sun Aug 3 13:23:28 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Warehouse Sale... In-Reply-To: <33E4D349.5954@goldrush.com> Message-ID: Larry or anyone else: Would you be willing to sell me your Jupiter Lander cart for the Vic-20... or any other carts you might have? Am looking for Apple ][e, Vic-20, Atari 400/800xl software. Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > Well went out there and picked through stuff again... Lets see > today's tab was $30 for: > > 2 monitors (1702 & CM-141, both Commodore color composite/split > composite) > early VIC-20 (with the older 9v only adapter) > Jupiter Lander Cart for VIC-20 > Commodore 4022 Tractor Printer (IEEE-488) > Commodore 4040 dual disk drive > Commodore PC-40 III enclosure (still has motherboard (drives have been > removed) > > Box o' cables & stuff including IEEE-488 cables, video cables, serial > cables, a couple epoxy brick supplies, a pair of atari paddles and a > pair of atari driving controllers. > > There is still have at least a dozen PETs there but I havent the space > for more (hopefully I'll make more room before the sale is over...) > Also a bunch of 1702s and CM141s, and lots of 64s, VIC-20s and 1541s... > > Other computers of note... No apple ][s Enrico, and I saw someone > pick up the two ][c's for $5 each. There were a couple Compupro > 8/somethings.. They looked heavy (given one was opened and I saw one of > the biggest transformers I have ever seen), had a about 8 or ten of > cards in it... the Osbornes are still there... ALOT of stuff, more > then I could report. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > On a side note, recently I have been fortunate in finding alot of low > density disks (5.25 and 3.5") at thrift stores for less then I can get > them bulk (from $1 to $2 a package of 10 or more), many of which haven't > even been used. Those of us with computers requiring such disks sould > make sure to check for them during your thrift shopping. :) > > Larry Anderson > -- > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ > Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > From dastar at crl.com Sun Aug 3 15:45:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Televideo TS1603 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Aug 1997, Stacy C. Morang wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Its a Televideo 1603. What's interesting about this system for one thing > > is that it was made by Televideo, whom I thought only made terminals. It > > I may have some software for it... but it's not handy right now (stored > away) - drop me a note if you need it (I'd bet that it is an old ms-dos > or cp/m set, but it might have some unique televideo bits to it. This weekend I found a set of TeleVideo NetWare disks of all things. Actually, I found several sets so I took them all. I wonder what the 1603 uses as the network port, or if these disks will work on my model at all. From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sun Aug 3 08:39:40 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970803091339.00f79e50@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: On 03-Aug-97, Bruce Lane wrote: >Weight: About 40-50 lbs. Not bad at all, really. Some PC full-towers tip >the scales around there. That's what I'm hoping for..if so, it's likely I could handle retrieving it without a problem. >Sizewise, they're about as tall as a full-tower, but deeper and skinnier. >You can probably lift one in your arms without a huge problem. Sounds a lot like a NCR tower that sat in my office for a while, and was a special purpose machine used for tracking of specific commodity items. >With the hardware that's in it, you could easily run OpenVMS, MicroVMS, >regular VMS (I think -- someone check me on that, please?), Ultrix, or NetBSD. Yes, according to the info I've found on the Web, OpenVMS seems the way to go with it...so far, I've found very few 'nice' references to MicroVMS! In fact, it looks like one can get a hobbyist license for OpenVMS for free if one is a member of Decus. >I know the guy I wrote to said there were no docs or diags with it, but... >if by some miracle he was wrong, I'd like to get a copy of any diagnostics >that you might get with it. I spoke to him on the phone for a few minutes on friday, and he wasn't able to tell me much about it...from his quick discription, the system sounded like the larger unit. I hope not, as I wouldn't be able to do anything about picking up the larger unit. He did say that the only thing I'd be getting would be the system unit itself..no docs, terminals, software, or anything. He was supposed to leave me an email with further info and directions on how to get to his office, but I've yet to hear from him. I'm going to call him tomorrow morning again. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 4 08:07:29 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Aug 3, 97 06:39:40 pm Message-ID: <9708041207.AA14205@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3067 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970804/e81f1ff8/attachment.ksh From s-ware at nwu.edu Mon Aug 4 08:14:29 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) In-Reply-To: <9708031644.AA13487@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > There are three sorts of commonly-found DEC keys: Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. > > Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. > > I'm not sure what the answer to this is. I thought the standard > console interface on a 11/10 was a DL11-W. Have you tried asking > on "vmsnet.pdp-11" on Usenet? Not yet. I've been lurking there for a while trying to gauge the reaction to PDP-11 newbie questions such as mine. Speaking of newbie questions, does anyone know of a good reference for IAS? -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From s-ware at nwu.edu Mon Aug 4 08:18:20 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: PDP-11/10 console (was: DEC keys and consoles) In-Reply-To: <009B83BF.85EE23F5.23@siva.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, PDP11 Hacker ..... wrote: (regarding the BERG connector on the M9970 module in a PDP-11/10) > It's the standard DEC serial connector. Current loop is certainly there, and I > think at least one of the TTL and/or EIA connections are there as well. This > may depend on which CPU board set you have, however. I seem to recall > pinouts/cable lists are on one of the PDP_8_ web sites. Great! I've already found the pinouts, and I'll check voltages as soon as I power the machine up. > 11/10's use an RC clock for the baud rate generator. It's tweakable by a > preset on one of the boards - check it at pin 40 of the UART (the only > 40 pin chip in the CPU), and set to 16 times the baud rate. I think the > 11/10S uses an Xtal clock, and there's a switch to set standard rates. > The RC clock does 110 baud as standard, but can be tweaked at least to > 300 baud. You can change (reduce) the timing capacitor to get higher > rates, of course. > -tony There is what appears to be an RC clock composed of a 4.7 nF capacitor and a multi-turn trimmer potentiometer in the upper left corner of the M7260 data path board in my 11/10. It looks like this clock feeds a 74197 counter, which has a 5-position rotary switch connected (presumably for selecting what the incoming clock is divided by). I'll put a scope on pin 40 of the UART after I power the machine up to see what effect the rotary switch has on the UART clock. It seems likely that the rotary switch is used for making large changes in the baud rate and the trimmer is used for tweaking. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 4 14:17:01 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Honeywell Microsystem 6 Message-ID: <9707048707.AA870729811@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Hi! > > I recently picked up one of these beasts at a second-hand store, and > managed to assemble her and get her running. However, I have been unable > to find out anything about them other than they run the 8086 processor. Can > anyone tell me something more? Like what the OS is, when they were made, > and what tehir arcitecture was? Honeywell, unsuprisingly, couldn't help, > and I found nothing on the web. Um. I don't recognise the name, but there were some early Honeywell PC type things called "Microsystem Executive". This was a design bought by Honeywell after the British company responsible, Future Technology Systems, went bust. The FTS series 86 was sold as the "Non-compatible compatible". OS was a version of CPM-86 with MS-DOS compatibility, multitasking, and one or two other fun features, called Concurrent DOS, and sold by a software house whose name I can't remember (Pegasus? Something beginning with P, I think). Despite its PC-incompatibility - architecture quite different at the hardware level - Lotus 123 version 1 ran without modification, and even drew graphs on the monchrome monitor... I have an FTS 86 somewhere. It was far too expensive, even tho' my father got a huge discount for not suing FTS for breach of contract when they failed to maintain our Series 88 machines. After FTS folded, Honeywell-Bull maintained it for a while; they gave that up at about the time Honeywell sold the rest of their computer arm to Bull group. More than that I can't remember, offhand. If you want more info, I'll see what I can find, but it won't be much... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 4 14:21:30 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <9707048707.AA870729994@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical > key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside > the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to > extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key turn with a screwdriver? When I tried to get my 11/10 console key duplicated, the locksmith didn't even know of a source of blanks. This is the same locksmith who copied keys on restricted blanks (which he had in stock) that operated bits of power station equipment from the 1950s. I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... Philip. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Mon Aug 4 08:42:47 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles Message-ID: <199708041342.AA07524@maddog.swec.com> On Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:44:26 -0800 (PDT), Mr. Shoppa mentions: > 1. The metal cylinder-lock keys. These are found on -8's, most > older (pre 11/24, 11/44, 11/84, 11/94) Unibux -11's, and some other > boxes. These are standard ACE cylinder keys, with pattern # XX2247. Other boxes: VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, PDP-12, LINC-8 for starters. I'm positive there are others. Like the pdp11/40 KL-10 front-end... > you may need to be friendly with the locksmith - almost all ACE keys > are stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE" If you produce the lock that the key is for, I believe the smith's objection may be moot. I've got several copies floating around that fit every DEC machine in my collection. They're not hard to come by. I believe the "DO NOT DUPLICATE" is valid only if you can't prove you own the matching lock. > The non-cylinder keys, found on only a few CPU boxes (like the 11/10). > I don't know where to find these... Again, take the lock mechanism to a good locksmith; he'll be able to make a new key for it by examining the tumblers. Of course, as in your case the key is broken off in the cylinder, the smith's job will be _much_ easier. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 4 15:01:50 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: PDP-11/10 console (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <009B846F.CD23727F.35@siva.bris.ac.uk> >There is what appears to be an RC clock composed of a 4.7 nF capacitor and >a multi-turn trimmer potentiometer in the upper left corner of the M7260 >data path board in my 11/10. It looks like this clock feeds a 74197 >counter, which has a 5-position rotary switch connected (presumably for >selecting what the incoming clock is divided by). I'll put a scope on pin >40 of the UART after I power the machine up to see what effect the rotary >switch has on the UART clock. It seems likely that the rotary switch is >used for making large changes in the baud rate and the trimmer is used for >tweaking. If that's the board I think it is, it's an 11/10S. The preset was adjusted at the factory, and you could set most standard baud rates using the switch. It can't hurt to measure the frequency, of course. I can check the printset next weekend for you if you can't figure it out. > >-- >Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu -tony From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 4 15:05:44 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <009B8470.58A6678A.79@siva.bris.ac.uk> >> Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical >> key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside >> the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to >> extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. > >Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key >turn with a screwdriver? You can also dismantle the lock from the front panel (remove the frontpanel from the rest of the machine, unscrew the microswtich assy, and frob the retaining clip) and pull out the wafers with pliers. Reassemble it without the wafers, and you can operate it with a screwdriver. That's what I had to do to my 11/10 and GT40, alas. Alternatively, if you can find a blank that fits, it would be possible to cut the notches in the appropriate places until the wafers line up with the cylinder edge, and make a key that way. > >I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... Err, a strip of metal and a milling machine? :-) > >Philip. -tony From dhq at juno.com Mon Aug 4 09:12:26 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) References: <9707048707.AA870729994@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <19970804.101121.4655.2.dhq@juno.com> Hello Philip, I have some keys and access to key blanks used in older electronic equipment. If you send me a tracing or photocopy of your key I might be able to match it. Regards, David Quackenbush PO Box 22394 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33335 On Mon, 04 Aug 97 14:21:30 BST Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk writes: >> Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the >cylindrical >> key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off >inside >> the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be >to >> extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made >from that. > >Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key >turn with a screwdriver? > >When I tried to get my 11/10 console key duplicated, the locksmith >didn't even know of a source of blanks. This is the same locksmith >who >copied keys on restricted blanks (which he had in stock) that operated > >bits of power station equipment from the 1950s. > >I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... > >Philip. > > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 4 15:52:18 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <9707048707.AA870735394@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Hello Philip, > I have some keys and access to key blanks used in older electronic > equipment. > If you send me a tracing or photocopy of your key I might be able to > match it. Thank you, David. At the moment, I have one system and one key, so a spare is not totally essential. When I am reduced to sending all the way to the US for a replacement, I'll let you know... Philip. From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 4 11:11:30 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! First to the net to see if plans had changed. Nope - looking good! I make my first pot of coffee (don't you love those Bunn's?) and start by cleaning out the van. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 08:45 Well, that was something I hadn't seen in almost two years - the floor of my van I mean. Well, what's left of it. A little history. The van cost me $1 about four years ago. When I bought it from my buddy's brother, he turned around and paid my buddy the dollar he owed him for the van from two years before that 8-) The main problem is that this thing just keeps running. Anyway, after examining the two foot square hole in the floor, I decided a piece of plywood would do nicely. Into the house to make a pot of coffee for the road. And my buddy calls. We have this understanding when either of us is about to do something stupid, we just know about it. No we don't try to talk each other out of it, we just like to know what is going on 8-) Saturday August 2, 1997 - 09:09 Finally ready to hit the road. Gas up the van, check the front right tire. Already thru the fourth ply of a four ply - eight ply rating! Ah well that's why you have a spare. I believe E-250's where made to run with a load! Man is this thing noisy and jumpy with with NO load! Saturday August 2, 1997 - 10:00 Well, that klacking sound is back! Time to throw in another guart of oil! Nope - better make it two! Quick check - nope the radiator ain't leaking any more. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 11:00 We both have to go REAL bad! Oh look - a rest stop. Both the van and I relieve ourselves. The van didn't leak all THAT bad! Back to the road. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 11:30 Heading south into Galesburg, IL on I-74. Why don't they TELL people they are ripping up the road? Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 12:00 somthing. Well, it looks like I am the last here. The directions were impecable! The roads where impassable 8-) Partial list (to be modified) 2 - 11/44 1 - VT-52 3 - RA81 1 - TE16 1 - RSTS Manual set 1 - VAX Ver. 4.0 Manual set 1 - Set of Field Service docs - Mixed 1 - Set of upgrade tapes - DEC Tape II and - what do you call those reels? 1 - 1/4 ton of spares, failures, cables, and Etc. We did however lose the 11/750 8-( Apparently a professor had wanted a 19" rack and his students chose the 11/750 as the doner! The guts were exposed to a fate that I abhore - The Trashman! I think a good time was had by all. At least while we were at Galesburg. We had no time to do lunch 8-( And we tried to split the equipment up as I was planning to run over to Peoria and drop off anything those guys couldn't fit. I still don't believe thay ACTUALLY fit 2 11/44s and a RA81 into a minivan! Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 16:00 As the Campus Police drive by we all say our farewells. Everybody is running late so we can't continue our discussions of computers, education, and life in general 8-( I fill up the van with water - don't even look at the tire (too afraid) and I set off to drive the impassable I-74 once again. Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 18:00 Well, I got a table from my buddy - but not the hardware (that way I have an excuse to run over to his place 8-) so I pull off I-55 to run over. Sure enough - Il 59 is all ripped up! As I stop for the traffic light - PANG! I thought I lost the rear spring - but no. After 360 miles that poor little tire had let go at the light. God takes care of Fools and Idiots - I am so glad I belong to both sets! So I pull off and put on my spare - in record time I might add! You guys ever hear of Dry Rot? That tire got me home but only after throwing off about a third of its tread! So after picking up the hardware for the table, watching "Kingpins" at my buddies, and cruising at about 30 for the last 16 miles - I got home - tired, worn out, but safe. Now this weekend I have to go to.... BC From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Mon Aug 4 02:00:21 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 04-Aug-97, Brett wrote: >Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 >The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois >arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! Interesting story...I also made my first rescue today! As some of you already know, I was set to pick up a MicroVax II...well, I did! This thing is a beast though...barely got it into the house by myself. Here are the specs on it though I haven't popped open the case yet: Model: DH-630Q2-F2 Case: 'radiator' style tower hard disks: (2) Maxtor XT-8380E (380 MB each) memory: ???? Where the guy got the idea that they were 35 MB each is beyond me, so I'm assuming that there is a strong possibility that he was wrong about it having 5meg of RAM as well. The drives are still securely attached to thier mounting brackets, though only the lower one is actually hooked up. There is a DB-9 connector with two knobs (one for choosing baud rate up to 38400) and a switch on the bracket labled 'A' on the rear of the machine, (4) DB-25M connectors on 'B' bracket, while brackets 'C' and 'D' each have a single DB-25F connector with P/N H3176-00. Bracket 'E' has just a blockoff plate, while 'F' has a 3row, 50 pin connector on it. Above the drives, which are mounted vertically one above the other, there is a small panel with switches for power, halt, reset, fixed disk 0 write protect, and ready, as well as status lights for 'run' and 'DC ok'. Now, the guy said he had never seen this machine actually in use, so it's been sitting for a while. When it was used though, he said it took input from some sensors on scales and processed that in different ways. That's the full extent of what I can tell you about this machine at this point, until I've gotten into the case. Any comments, info, suggestions, ect. will be more than welcome! Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu Mon Aug 4 14:20:04 1997 From: mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu (Matthew P. Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free TVs,etc Message-ID: <199708041920.OAA00517@beret.cs.utexas.edu> Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user From: epotter@mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) Newsgroups: austin.forsale Subject: Free TVs,etc Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 3 Distribution: austin Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 4 15:23:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Aug 4, 97 12:00:21 pm Message-ID: <9708041923.AA15038@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1763 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970804/185a665f/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 4 14:57:11 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story from Peoria In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue The other side of the story. (We were the peoria guys!) Saturday, August 2, 1997 - 8:00 We overslept because Jeff can't set an alarm. But only by 20 minutes. We made it to work, stole my boss's van, and off we went! Jeff brought his soon-to-be-girlfriend, and they left in my car. (A little Chevy Sprint) I took my boss's van. We left at about 10:45, after killing some time at work. This van is great. Everything works fine, except the driver's side door refuses to latch. We tied it closed with a bungee cord. Saturday, etc etc etc - 11:45 I show up at the the pickup place. We lost jeff somewhere, he arrives 20 minutes later. We take 20 minutes to find our contact. Then we actually see how BIG this thing is! The Things We Got: 2 PDP-11/44s. One in operational condition, the other is a spare CPU without a power supply. 1 Letterwriter 100 Printing Terminal... Loads of RSTS-E docs, backup tapes, diag tapes for the PDP on the drive Brett got. A set of 11/750 diags on DECTape IIs. More serial cable than I can carry. Loads of miscellaneous Unibus cards. Various assorted PDP and VAX docs. Including a copy of the DEC Peripherals Handbook and various other things... We had REAL fun fitting all this into the minivan and the car. Poor car was about 5 degrees nose-high on the way home! Given a set of wings, we could have taken off! Saturday, about 5:00 We get to our workplace, hoping to get this thing fired up Sunday. We later learn how foolish this is! Almost remove my fingers trying to get the double-cabnet 44 out of the van! Sunday, All day. Various unloading. Jeff succeeds in dropping the double-cabinet 11 on his foot, sideways. He smashed it up pretty well. The 11 survived. Found out the smaller 11 has no PS, and I dropped the power key inside of it. Then found out I don't have a hex key! Ended up unlatching it with a screwdriver. This was fun. Got the 11 powered up, but haven't gotten it booted yet. Terminal problem. Monday - 9:00 Boss shows up. Complains soon as he sees it. Looks like the big 11 gets to live in a storage shed for awhile! And after he gave us permission to put a computer here! Oh well. Looks like booting it will take a little longer than I thought... We had fun anyway. (Even Jeff) From rcini at msn.com Mon Aug 4 17:39:29 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! Message-ID: For all of those Commodore followers... Something interesting happened today. One of my co-workers asked me to work with her on something relating to a company called Ensoniq, a manufacturer of sound cards and hign-end MIDI equipment. She was reading to me over the phone about the founders and how they came from Commodore International. Hmmmm. She then read the names: Al Charpentier and Robert Yannes. I didn't immediately recognize Al's name, but I knew Yannes. He created the prototypes for the VIC-20 and C64. Reading on, she confirmed my guess. Al ran the LSI section of the Advanced Systems Design Group within Commodore. From the info that we have, it seems that Al did mostly chip design, including the VIC-I and VIC-II, and Bob did mostly systems design. Well, in about a week or two, I'll be meeting these guys. Does anyone have any special questions that are not too off-the-wall and that I can slip into conversation? ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 4 19:10:40 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > For all of those Commodore followers... > > Something interesting happened today. One of my co-workers asked me to work > with her on something relating to a company called Ensoniq, a manufacturer of > sound cards and hign-end MIDI equipment. She was reading to me over the phone > about the founders and how they came from Commodore International. Hmmmm. > > She then read the names: Al Charpentier and Robert Yannes. I didn't > immediately recognize Al's name, but I knew Yannes. He created the prototypes > for the VIC-20 and C64. Reading on, she confirmed my guess. Al ran the LSI > section of the Advanced Systems Design Group within Commodore. From the info > that we have, it seems that Al did mostly chip design, including the > VIC-I and VIC-II, and Bob did mostly systems design. > > Well, in about a week or two, I'll be meeting these guys. Does anyone have > any special questions that are not too off-the-wall and that I can slip into > conversation? Ya Rich. Ask them if they would be interested in a first once again? Hey Bill, with our own server up - do you feel like trying a realtime chat group? Or is this asking too much - I know you are busy. Maybe someone else could set up a host system for this. This would be *Real Neat*. I guess if I suggest it - I better read up on it 8-) Anyone else think this would be a neat idea??? BC From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 4 19:25:50 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <970804202102_-1607050231@emout13.mail.aol.com> I also have a uVAX II, and i partially dissembled mine and hosed down the outer plastic shell since there was lots of nasty dust in there. i finally figured out how to open the access door in the back, and saw some cards in there, but exactly how do they come out? i didnt want to just start pulling in case they are locked in somehow. david From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Aug 4 19:32:02 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! Message-ID: >Ya Rich. Ask them if they would be interested in a first once again? >Hey Bill, with our own server up - do you feel like trying a realtime >chat group? Or is this asking too much - I know you are busy. Maybe >someone else could set up a host system for this. This would be *Real >Neat*. I guess if I suggest it - I better read up on it 8-) Anyone >else think this would be a neat idea??? I wrote Perl code for a web chat once, which ran quite well - but as it uses forms rather than Java it is not entirly real time. Anyway, if you want that we can probably work something out. Ada, From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Aug 4 19:41:11 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Surwave Amigo Message-ID: Hi! Anyone know anything about the Surwave Amigo? I have a non-working version, and am inclined to fix it, but I don't know what the system is. It has a Z80a cpu,and I was told by someone (who could well be wrong) that it runs Apple II software, but that is as much as I have found out so far. Thanks heaps, Adam. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 4 20:16:55 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <199708050116.AA05501@world.std.com> Dave If you still these items I can drive down from Houston and ick up or if you only have the manuals I'll apy for shipping the manuals MN. Thanks John Keys At 02:20 PM 8/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? > >Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user >From: epotter@mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) >Newsgroups: austin.forsale >Subject: Free TVs,etc >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 >Organization: The University of Texas at Austin >Lines: 3 >Distribution: austin >Message-ID: >NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu >Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 > >Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large >and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several >Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 4 21:55:12 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free TVs,etc Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970805025512.006a9458@pop3.concentric.net> If you still have the lisa manuals and stuff I will pay the shipping and cod cost to get them. Let me and thanks John Keys At 02:20 PM 8/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? > >Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user >From: epotter@mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) >Newsgroups: austin.forsale >Subject: Free TVs,etc >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 >Organization: The University of Texas at Austin >Lines: 3 >Distribution: austin >Message-ID: >NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu >Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 > >Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large >and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several >Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off. > > From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 4 23:05:44 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Adam Jenkins wrote: > >Ya Rich. Ask them if they would be interested in a first once again? > >Hey Bill, with our own server up - do you feel like trying a realtime > >chat group? Or is this asking too much - I know you are busy. Maybe > >someone else could set up a host system for this. This would be *Real > >Neat*. I guess if I suggest it - I better read up on it 8-) Anyone > >else think this would be a neat idea??? > > I wrote Perl code for a web chat once, which ran quite well - but as it > uses forms rather than Java it is not entirly real time. Anyway, if you > want that we can probably work something out. Well - this is to announce a Beta Run of the Classic Computer Chatroom! Thanks for the offer Adam! We will try this first 8-) Tuesday August 5, 1997 20:00 CST - Come one Come all - Well not all at once 8-) You all can reach it from the Classic Computer Encyclopedia Web Page. Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ We will give it a try. Bill, if you are out there 8-) It was a breeze to install and if you want it - follow the links yourself 8-) > Ada, ^ That late huh? 8-) Check it out Adam - it is pretty goo - and Free! BC - tired but happy once again. From kyrrin at wizards.net Mon Aug 4 23:52:13 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Heads up! Check the attached in detail... Message-ID: <33ecb07f.775583119@mail.wizards.net> The attached showed up in sci.electronics.equipment. The main reason I'm forwarding it to the list is because the fellow advertises a complete C-64 with what appears to be an actual Commodore EPROM programmer. He's also got an Atari system and some other interesting goodies. Caveat emptor! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: news.eli.net!inquo!news.uoregon.edu!news.campus.rpslmc.edu!iagnet.net!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: corkymoo@aol.com (CorkyMoo) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.equipment Subject: fOr sAlE or there abouts. Date: 4 Aug 1997 15:57:10 GMT Lines: 137 Message-ID: <19970804155700.LAA11692@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <33D3D23E.2862@GSI.DE> Xref: news.eli.net sci.electronics.equipment:12201 Some weights haven't been included. You pay shipping. Write if interested in the stuff. Its a pain trying to weigh all this stuff. Need something electronic? ASK. * $20 min..* GC=Good Cond., PC=Poor Cond.-Parts Cond., MO=Make Offer, EC=Excellent Cond. * Please pass this list to some one else. Need some one to talk to call (716)JIXL-HAT -------------------------------------------------------------------- TUBES electron, 955 acorn,9002,7G,6Z4,89,5Y3,6SJ7,6J5,9006,6AV5,AU6A OA3,OA2 and more. Total=31, $1 -------------------------------------------------------------------- FUNCTION GEN. - Lab Volt AA777, manual, EC, paid $120, $59 .1 to 1 MHz, 4 wave forms plus pulse. -------------------------------------------------------------------- STEPPER MOTORS - 6 stepper motors, 6 wire, $6, GC, 4.5 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- WIRE - 5 wire intercom cable 120 ft. $10, new, 4 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- CARD READER - Magnetic card readers. $2/ea. $39/25 or $59/50 -------------------------------------------------------------------- TESTERS TRANSISTOR 2 - Elenco(new) & Knight, $20 w/manual I paid about $25 for one and had to assemble it, used it ounce or twice, ouch! Edlie Electronics still sells it. -------------------------------------------------------------------- TIMERS - Digital (coffee), control 15a 120v $4/ea., new -------------------------------------------------------------------- ALARMS - Master Lock, 12v auto or home $8/ea. new -------------------------------------------------------------------- TESTING - equipment 2, old Knight magic eye stuff, capacitance and signal tracer, G.C., $20, worth it for the eye tubes. -------------------------------------------------------------------- POWER SUPPLIES - 9 V DC, 150 ma., $2 ea., 5 for $8, 10 for $15, new small modular style with 2x12 mm plug, 6 oz./ea. -------------------------------------------------------------------- DB25 CONNECTORS 40 - rt. angle board mount, 20 female, 20 male, current price $1.60-$1.80 ea., new, $30, 3 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- PHONE CORDS 21 - modular and other, EC, $5, 4 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- RESISTORS 35 - power, 900 ohm, tubular porcelains, 30 to 50 watts? GC, $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- KEYBOARD - WYSE, 101 with modular plug, new, boxed, $10, 4.5 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- KEYBOARD - NCR, 95 key, well built, EC, $5, 6 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- CABLE - ribbon, colorful, arts & crafts to hardware, $6, 2 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTROLS - limit, for color TV's, 2 boxes (20), new, assortment of values, $8, -------------------------------------------------------------------- KEY SWITCHES - tubular, ACE, best quality, new, make a secure keyboard instead of what's on most PC's, $5 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONNECTORS CENTRONICS - 10 Cinch, M-M, good quality, new $15 -------------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSFORMER, unloaded 142 ma., with the following: 19 v. - .5 a. 24 v. - 2.5 a. 28 v. - 13 a. 11 v. - 20 a. The out puts can be mixed matched for different voltages & amps. MO -------------------------------------------------------------------- G65SC151PEI-1, GTEu, P350151 a PLCC have 65 of these. MO -------------------------------------------------------------------- GLOVES, finger less, leather, new, cycling or golfing $2 for both. -------------------------------------------------------------------- RECEPTACLE single, rated 15A 125V, boxed, 4 of these, new $2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERATOR NOISE, General Radio, white/pink/USASI, EC $39 -------------------------------------------------------------------- VCR MULTIPLIER, boxed, 900 MHz, watch in any room, EC $20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CLEANING CARE KIT, for Bernoulli removable drives, new $2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- WALL PLATE, TV-FM and rotor, lists $3/ea., new $2 all 3 -------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMODORE/EPROM, system, consists of all of the following; late model commodore 64 (new style case), EPROM programmer will program 2716 to 27256, 2 disk drives , all boxes, cables, power supplies, manuals. Will toss in all the above manuals#. All EC $120 -------------------------------------------------------------------- C-PROGRAMMING BOOKS, Turbo C++, 4 books. All the following one book; Microsoft Quick C, Advanced C, C Primer Plus, total of 7 books, GC all, $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Differential DC Voltmeter, JF, Model 801 MegOhmmeter, Industrial Instruments Co., Model L-6B Low Freq. Generator, HP, Model 202A Volt-Amp-Milliammeter, Sensitive Research Instrument Corp. Television/FM Sweep Generator, RCA, WR-69A wt. 17 lbs. Megohm Bridge, General Radio Co., Type 544-B Constant Voltage Conditioner, Digital, H7225-AC MO on all the above. No offer refused. Sold as is for parts. -------------------------------------------------------------------- SCIENCE BOOK MY FIRST, 10.25"X13.25", very large well illustrated, excellent content, Mr.Wizard would have love this. Slight water damage, pages are crinkled a bit. No damage to print or colors and no page tear. $4 -------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPUTER GRAPHICS, Vol.23 #3,4,5. 3 books, pgs. 408,352,332. A publication of ACM Siggraph. $8 -------------------------------------------------------------------- BATTERY PACK, Ni-Cd, 4 AA in shrink wrap, 4.8v, for turbo racing cars or where ever 4.8v or 1/4 less are needed, these can be easily split apart, Radio Shack No. 23-245 GC $3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ZIF SOCKET, fit 24 to 32 pin DIP's, made by 3M, good quality, new $4 --------------------------------------------------------------------- MOTHERBOARD, 486 & 386 and 2 - 14.4K modems sold for parts, $5 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ATARI 5200, great older game machine, boxed, with Space Invaders, Dig Dug, Joust, Pac-Man, Mario Bros., Centipede. EC except for joysticks, will have to solder on switch for fire button. wt. 16 lbs. $20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- PHONE JACK/WIRING BLOCK, new, just purchased from Sun, $1 -------------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSMITTER's, 5 watts, are set for between two CB chs. 3&4 these are removed from new equipment, board measures about 1 6/16" X 5", $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CAP variable air, 50-1470 pF, about 8.5"x4.5"x4.5", biggest I've seen, stainless steel and AL, $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- THE END... -------------------------------------------------------------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Aug 5 06:22:57 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Surwave Amigo Message-ID: > Anyone know anything about the Surwave Amigo? I have a non-working > version, and am inclined to fix it, but I don't know what the system is. It > has a Z80a cpu,and I was told by someone (who could well be wrong) that it > runs Apple II software, but that is as much as I have found out so far. Some newly discovered additional information. :) After taking the boards out (one of which I assume is for the dual floppies, one for the hard drive? one unknown and one graphics card), I found a 6502. So it seems it is a dual processor Z80a/6502 machine. This, at least, explains the Apple ][ compatibility, but leaves me a tad more confused about its origins. Adam. From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 5 08:46:47 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 135 In-Reply-To: <199708050702.AAA01260@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805064647.00f87e30@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 05-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 12:00:21 +0500 >From: Jeff Hellige >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Cc: adam@merlin.net.au >Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain > >On 04-Aug-97, Brett wrote: > >>Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 >>The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois >>arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! > > Interesting story...I also made my first rescue today! As some of you >already know, I was set to pick up a MicroVax II...well, I did! This thing is >a beast though...barely got it into the house by myself. Here are the specs >on it though I haven't popped open the case yet: Jeff, once you get that case open, please let me know which cards are in it. The one attached to that 50-pin connector MIGHT be a SCSI-to-QBus adapter. > Now, the guy said he had never seen this machine actually in use, so it's >been sitting for a while. When it was used though, he said it took input from >some sensors on scales and processed that in different ways. > > That's the full extent of what I can tell you about this machine at this >point, until I've gotten into the case. Any comments, info, suggestions, ect. >will be more than welcome! I have several items that may be of help, including a distribution tape for MicroVMS 4.5 (or 4.6? I can never remember). For what they're worth, I've also got a customer-level diagnostic tape. Both are on TK50 cartridges. If either would be of help, I can make you a copy and send it along. I also have some hardware docs on the MicroVAXen. FYI, sounds like you got the BA123 enclosure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 5 08:50:45 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 135 In-Reply-To: <199708050702.AAA01260@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805065045.00f87e30@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 05-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:11:30 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brett >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue > >Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 >The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois >arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! >First to the net to see if plans had changed. Nope - looking good! I make my >first pot of coffee (don't you love those Bunn's?) and start by cleaning out >the van. >2 - 11/44 >1 - VT-52 >3 - RA81 >1 - TE16 >1 - RSTS Manual set Whoa... did you happen to get any RSTS/E distribution media with that? I don't much care if its TK50, 9-track, or whatever... if you did, I'd be interested in at least a copy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 5 08:55:10 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Need SW for Mac286 board Message-ID: <199708051355.JAA10046@hiway1.exit109.com> I just picked up and old AST Mac286 board set. This is a NUBUS-based 286 co-processor for the Mac. Unfortunately, it did not come with software. Can anyone send me a copy of it and any relevant info that I should know about. MIME-encoded disk images are fine. Thanks ever so much in advance... <<>> From dhq at juno.com Tue Aug 5 10:11:39 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Timex-Sinclair for sale Message-ID: <19970805.111005.7663.1.dhq@juno.com> I'll sell everything for $35.00, includes USPS Priorty shipping anywhere in the US. If you live near Ft. Lauderdale you can pick it up for $25.00 PS. I found a paperback book with 51 game programs for the TS 1000 & 1500, it's included. Regards, David Quackenbush From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Mon Aug 4 20:16:12 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <199708042349.AA17828@world.std.com> Message-ID: On 05-Aug-97, Allison J Parent wrote: >odd sounding box. The BA23 is a 6"x19"x29" chassis out of the plastic dress >case. The BA123 is about double the width but the layout is very different. >The backplane is fixed in a main chassin and has a door over it and dress >covers. Sounds like a either a bs23 or BA213 skunk box. Most ba23s only >have one hard drive and either RX50 or TK50/70 tape. This one is in a plastic case mounted on a pedestal..the cases outside dimensions are: 6"W x 28-1/4" L x 24" H. The dimensions of the internal chasis alone are approximately: 5"W x 24" L x 17-1/2" H. It certainly doesn't sound wide enough to be a BA123, which threw me off at first when Tim suggested that's what it was. It doesn't seem to match the dimensions of the BA23 though either, especially since it has two slide-mounted hard disks in it, though it lacks a tape drive or any other type of removable media. >FYI the BA23 (Ihave one) slides into a plastic pedestal case from the back. >or the metal box can have rack mount ears. This one also alows the whole chasis to slide in and out of the pedestal case...and it looks like it'd allow it to do it just as easily from the front as it would the rear. >The 6x6 card? got me. A KA630a is quad width double height (8.5x11). Well my guaging of dimensions by eye leaves much to be desired..which is why I took a seamstress tape to the case for the above dimensions! >If the OS is ultrix yes, VMS no. If the case is BA23 drve ready switches >should be off before turning on and off before turning off. I'd say don't >power it till you have a terminal anyhow as VAXen look for a console >terminal or they don't finish power diags or boot! It also queries the >terminal for what It is, the altos unless a vt100 clone will nto give the >right response (no biggie but there is some console editing that will not >happen then). I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for about $50 on the newsgroups. Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu Tue Aug 5 11:02:01 1997 From: mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: ; from Jeff Hellige on Tue, Aug 05, 1997 at 06:16:12AM +0500 References: <199708042349.AA17828@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19970805110201.51549@beret.cs.utexas.edu> I remember back in '97 when Jeff Hellige wrote: > On 05-Aug-97, Allison J Parent wrote: > >If the OS is ultrix yes, VMS no. If the case is BA23 drve ready switches > >should be off before turning on and off before turning off. I'd say don't > >power it till you have a terminal anyhow as VAXen look for a console > >terminal or they don't finish power diags or boot! It also queries the > >terminal for what It is, the altos unless a vt100 clone will nto give the > >right response (no biggie but there is some console editing that will not > >happen then). > > I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely > I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for > about $50 on the newsgroups. If it uses the answerback facility to do the query, you can probably get by with any number of solutions. At least a couple of terminals I have are able to set this string to match what a true vt100 would produce. Also, don't discount the power of an old PC, or even a new PC running e.g. Linux to communicate in the desired way. m@ -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */ From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Aug 5 11:33:06 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <01IM2ST1YLQABCHQSA@cc.usu.edu> >>FYI the BA23 (Ihave one) slides into a plastic pedestal case from the back. >>or the metal box can have rack mount ears. > > This one also alows the whole chasis to slide in and out of the pedestal >case...and it looks like it'd allow it to do it just as easily from the front >as it would the rear. Take a look through the vent holes on top. The BA23 has a metal flange about halfway down which prevents it from coming too far out the front. You can get it out far enough to take off the cover plate over the drive bay, but that's about it. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Mon Aug 4 21:33:06 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <01IM2ST1YLQABCHQSA@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On 05-Aug-97, Roger Ivie wrote: >Take a look through the vent holes on top. The BA23 has a metal flange >about halfway down which prevents it from coming too far out the front. You >can get it out far enough to take off the cover plate over the drive bay, >but that's about it. On this one, there is a metal plate that runs the whole length of the case, front to back, and I can see the dual fans through the vent holes. If I pull the small blocking plate off the front of the machine to allow the chasis to slide out some though, I can see the metal tab sticking up from the top of the chasis which would likely block the chasis from sliding out more than 1/2 way through the front. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From manney at nwohio.com Mon Aug 4 09:38:22 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Who wanted my book? Message-ID: <199708051714.KAA07137@mx2.u.washington.edu> I offered a book, "Assembly Language Programming for the 8080/8085"; someone said he wanted it. Who? (I lost the reply). Thanks manney@nwohio.com From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Aug 5 13:25:01 1997 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <19970805110201.51549@beret.cs.utexas.edu> References: ; from Jeff Hellige on Tue, Aug 05, 1997 at 06:16:12AM +0500 Message-ID: <77008DD40933@ifrsys.com> > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:02:01 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Matthew Sayler > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story > I remember back in '97 when Jeff Hellige wrote: > > On 05-Aug-97, Allison J Parent wrote: > > >If the OS is ultrix yes, VMS no. If the case is BA23 drve ready switches > > >should be off before turning on and off before turning off. I'd say don't > > >power it till you have a terminal anyhow as VAXen look for a console > > >terminal or they don't finish power diags or boot! It also queries the > > >terminal for what It is, the altos unless a vt100 clone will nto give the > > >right response (no biggie but there is some console editing that will not > > >happen then). > > > > I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely > > I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for > > about $50 on the newsgroups. > If you're talking about the Altos III terminals (minus their keyboards), I wouldn't give up just yet. IIRC, they used WYSE terminals with (slightly) customized roms. If the keyboard plug is round (kinda like a DIN plug, but with lots more pins) then a WY-50 keyboard should work. If it is a modular phone plug, then it would be a WY-30 keyboard. All bets are off if the terminal has a heavy, metal cabinet-- it's probly a Wy-100, and keyboards for those are rather scarce. jeff From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 5 21:08:03 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: HX20 questions Message-ID: <009B856C.202724C4.19@siva.bris.ac.uk> I've just been given an Epson HX20 laptop - it was not working when I got it, but it didn't take long to kludge over the damaged conductor in the keyboard flexiprint cable... Anyway, it came with some rather nice bits : The microcassette drive and 8 tapes A TF20 floppy drive unit and cable A pile of manuals - user manuals for the HX20 and TF20, BASIC reference manual, and _Technical_ manaul for the HX20. The latter is quite a find, and includes schematics of the machine, the tape unit and the ROM cartridge. I am lacking the systems disk for the TF20 - does anyone have one that they could make a copy of. I can supply a blank disk and pay postage, of course. I suspect that as I have the machine, I am entitled to have such a disk. I assume schematics for the TF20 don't exist anywhere... The TF20 contains a pair of 1/3 height voice-coil drives (like those in the QX10), and a controller board. The latter contains a Z80, 2K EPROM, 64K DRAM, the 765 disk controller chip, and TTL glue. There's a daughterboard with the serial chip on it to communicate with the HX20. This reminds me of another Epson object I have - a BM5 floppy drive. This looks like the TF20 (it's a white box, very deep from front to back, with a vertically mounted drive on the front). However, this drive seems to link to the internal controller using an ST506-like interface (34 pin and 20 pin cables), and the controller chips are hard disk controllers. Somebody told me that it stored 5 Mbytes/disk Does anyone know anything about this object? -tony From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 5 15:54:58 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Booting this 11/44 In-Reply-To: <009B856C.202724C4.19@siva.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: I found the console terminal and I can talk to ODT. I think I have the RA81 hooked up correctly. RA passes all the diags. The machine doesn't boot. If I give it a B command, it runs for a second and halts. There are 4 connectors for the RA, in bottom of the rack. A B C D Which does the RA cable go into? Is there a different command to boot from an RA? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 5 17:10:17 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Booting this 11/44 In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 5, 97 03:54:58 pm Message-ID: <9708052110.AA17785@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1443 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970805/285ed7c2/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 5 16:26:07 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Booting this 11/44 In-Reply-To: <9708052110.AA17785@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > What message does it give you - "Halted" or "?Couldn't start CP" ? It says CONSOLE xxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx (The ODT start message) > > It's trying to boot the "default device", which is selected via some > DIPswitches on the Unibus Adapter. > > It doesn't matter. But you don't plug the RA straight into those > jacks; the RA should plug into a cabinet kit on the back of the > drive's cabinet, then a black SDI cable should > run between the cabinet kit on the drive cabinet and the cabinet > kit on the CPU. Make sure the appropriate port button ("A" or > "B") is in on the drive. The RA has a small box on the back. Out of this comes 4 cables - 2 for the terminator, and 2 SDI cables. Those are plugged into a small box on the bottom of the rack-mount, with 4 SDI cables running out the back to the controller. > > In other words, there must be an *even* number of cab kits involved. > Each cab kit does a parity reversal on the cable. Nothing blows > up if things are reversed, but you won't be able to access the drive. > > (There are white SDI cables, which change the requirement to an odd > number. But I doubt you've got any white SDI cables - these were > generally used with RA70- and RA90-type disks.) > I have an even number. (One drive) > Try B DU0. If this doesn't work, you'll have to feed in a MSCP bootstrap > via console ODT. (Or buy the DU boot ROM from DECdirect, if they've > still got any.) I'll go try that. From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 5 19:28:21 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: New wishlist, and... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805172821.00f78ec8@mail.wizards.net> Now that I have your attention... I have need for the FIELD SERVICE diagnostics for the MicroVAX II. Not the customer-level ones; I already have them, and yes, they are a joke. Preferred media is TK50 or RX50. Other things I'm chasing are distribution kits for RSTS/E, ver. 9.x or higher, and Ultrix 4.5. For RSTS, I can take any of the following; 9-track tape, TK50, CD-ROM or RL02 (TK50 or CD-ROM preferred). For Ultrix, TK50 or CD-ROM (I can do RX50's in a pinch, but that'd be a LOT of floppies!). Also, I now have the ability to make binary image copies of TK50 tapes. This means that I can accept a tape on loan, long enough to copy it, and then send it back. It also means I can make copies for fellow VAXen-users. :-) Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rcini at msn.com Tue Aug 5 21:13:06 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Possible PDP11 acquisition/what to get Message-ID: I may have the opportunity to pick-up some PDP11 equipment. I'm not too knowledgeable about the PDP11 series and all of the accessories that go with it, nor do I have a complete list of the goodies at this time. What I'd like to do though is to get a "complete" system for my collection (which consists mostly of micro stuff). Some of the equipment includes several 11/34s, 11/23s, 11/23+, 11/40, 11/05, etc., RK05/RL01/RL02/RX01/RX02 drives, plus racks and a whole load of other stuff. Any guidance here would be appreciated. BTW, this stuff is at Temple University (for all of those East-coast rescuers). TIA! ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From pechter at lakewood.com Tue Aug 5 22:37:21 1997 From: pechter at lakewood.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:30 2005 Subject: Possible PDP11 acquisition/what to get In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Aug 6, 97 02:13:06 am" Message-ID: <199708060337.XAA00464@i4got.lakewood.com> > > I may have the opportunity to pick-up some PDP11 equipment. I'm not too > knowledgeable about the PDP11 series and all of the accessories that go with > it, nor do I have a complete list of the goodies at this time. What I'd like > to do though is to get a "complete" system for my collection (which consists > mostly of micro stuff). > > Some of the equipment includes several 11/34s, 11/23s, 11/23+, 11/40, 11/05, > etc., RK05/RL01/RL02/RX01/RX02 drives, plus racks and a whole load of other > stuff. > > Any guidance here would be appreciated. BTW, this stuff is at Temple > University (for all of those East-coast rescuers). > > TIA! > Sounds good... I'm ex-DEC Field Service and I was pretty knowledgeable 10 years ago on that stuff... If any of it will free-up let me know. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 | 908-389-3592 pechter@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. This msg brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. From danjo at xnet.com Tue Aug 5 22:42:55 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: First Chatroom test Message-ID: Well, the turn out was smaller - but that was a Good Thing. Me 8-) and Frank McConnell started up about 20:02 CST. He's on the West Coast so it would have been about 18:02 for him 8-) were joined later by Hans Pufal in France - about 4:08 AM for him (what a trooper!) We tried out various stuff. It seems the Chatroom still has a few bugs. Bill Kendrick (the guy who wrote it) had mentioned some - but not all that we ran across. Still, it seemed to work well. Frank and Hans were running either IE or Netscape. I tried it - my poor little Linux system with 8 MB always did belly up with that running - so I went back to Lynx. Seems to like to say you just joined randomly (that was noted) and then about 95 minutes into it - the whole log got cleaned out. That MIGHT be a feature 8-) Oh there are a ton of features I haven't played with yet. You can put a picture on the chat line as well (scary in some cases 8-) and all sorts of robotic things to do - set up a Eliza talking to people 8-) and then also throwing gifs in to replace words. We are going to try it again on Thursday. Maybe earlier. Maybe later. BC From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 5 22:46:15 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Heathkit machines (fwd) Message-ID: An opportunity for a rescue in the Chicago area... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 21:26:55 -0500 From: Keith McMillen To: jimw@agora.rdrop.com Subject: Heathkit machines Jim, I have an H-8 with dual floppy drives, and an H-89 (H-8 built into an H-19 terminal) with the built in floppy, plus an additional dual floppy drive setup. There are also a large box of floppies including CPM and the HDOS operating disks. I have no idea how much of this works anymore, but it was functioning when I put it on the shelf. We are moving and I can't take it with. If you can find a home for it, I would be very pleased. The machines are currently in the western suburbs of Chicago, IL. You may contact me at kmac@mmwg.com or call (630) 832-1990. KMAC From danjo at xnet.com Tue Aug 5 22:49:38 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: A Testimonial Dear Friends - CCRS Message-ID: I was pleased to recieve this today after quite a few emails. I can't think a batter way to say why I joined the Classic Computer Rescue List/Squad. >Brett- > > Well, you're off the hook: I won't be trying to lure you out here for > computer rescues this time! (which is probably a good thing, with the > travel schedule you're looking at. . .) > > Anyway, my contact in western Michigan reappeared, and over the weekend > we did a complete hand over of *lots* of stuff. Now there's a family in > Kent City, Michigan, with a really good start on a full set of early > Zenith machines-- and there's one in Ann Arbor that has a lot more space > opened up in the basement (definitely what I call a win-win situation > :-) > > I do thank you, though, for the initial rescue, as well as the later > info and encouragement. Much appreciated! All the best -- Laura We do meet some of the Nicest People in the world. BC From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Aug 6 00:54:48 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Computer Catalogue updated Message-ID: <33E811A8.DF26E486@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> I have updated my opus magnus : the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue (CCC), it now records 3574 computers. Please take a look and send any comments or updates my way. It can be found at Use the FIND button to gain access to the search engine, from there you can look for your favorite machine by name or get a list of machines by manufacturer or date or country. There are over 800 machines with unknown dates, would the list members be upset if I do a weekly posting of, say 10 names in an attempt to get more info? If you do object send me Email and I will stop. Best regards, Hans B Pufal From marvin at rain.org Wed Aug 6 01:44:52 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Computer Catalogue updated References: <33E811A8.DF26E486@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: <33E81D64.7745CD54@rain.org> Hans Pufal wrote: > I have updated my opus magnus : the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue > (CCC), it now records 3574 computers. Please take a look and send any > comments or updates my way. It can be found at > Looks good, I especially like the part where you give the sources for the infomation!!! I've had it bookmarked for quite a while and it is great to hear that you are still updating it. > There are over 800 machines with unknown dates, would the list members > > be upset if I do a weekly posting of, say 10 names in an attempt to > get > more info? If you do object send me Email and I will stop. This sounds like a good idea as well as one that is appropriate for this group! Are you looking for the date that the computers first shipped or perhaps rather advertised that they would ship :)? From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Aug 6 02:21:37 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Machine dates Message-ID: <33E82601.44E8E8D5@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Marvin wrote: >> There are over 800 machines with unknown dates, would the list members >> be upset if I do a weekly posting of, say 10 names in an attempt to >> get >> more info? If you do object send me Email and I will stop. > This sounds like a good idea as well as one that is appropriate for this > group! Are you looking for the date that the computers first shipped or > perhaps rather advertised that they would ship :)? Thanks for the encouragement! Yes, the date of a machine is a problem, ideally, for mainframes I would like the date of running the first significant program. I have taken to using the date of publication of an announcemnt in for example IEEE Computer. Any reasonable and hopefully verifiable date would be welcomed. I have been browsing the back issues of PCW magazine of which I have a complete set of the first 8 years or so, and it is amusing to see the adverts for the Sinclair MK14, they start out as rough drawings, then more detailed ones and finally after 8 or so months we finally see a photograph. It would be interesting to see a the sequence of these ads juxtaposed, hmmm, yet another project ;-) Regards, Hans From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 6 08:14:27 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: You were in Field Service? In-Reply-To: <199708060337.XAA00464@i4got.lakewood.com> Message-ID: Here's a good one. I have an 11/44, which is supposed to boot RSTS-E from an RA81. Since the SDI cable is inverted at each connector, I am using one cable. I removed the cables attached to the drive, and detached the cables attached to that little box at the bottom of the rack, and attached those to the drive. I have a direct connection between UDA50 and the RA81. I spin up the RA, let it get to READY, and then boot the machine. I tell ODT to B DU0. When the RA has A or B selected, it does absolutely nothing. When both are selected, the drive spins down, and doesn't reset. I have to push RUN/STOP twice to spin it back up. It doesn't give me a FAULT. The RA has passed all the diagnostics, I plugged a terminal. This is very probably my screw-up. What did I do wrong? From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Aug 6 10:51:11 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Consoles, Keys, and the PDP-11/10S In-Reply-To: <009B846F.CD23727F.35@siva.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, PDP11 Hacker ..... wrote: Scott Ware wrote: > >There is what appears to be an RC clock composed of a 4.7 nF capacitor and > >a multi-turn trimmer potentiometer in the upper left corner of the M7260 > >data path board in my 11/10. It looks like this clock feeds a 74197 > >counter, which has a 5-position rotary switch connected (presumably for > >selecting what the incoming clock is divided by). I'll put a scope on pin (snip) > > If that's the board I think it is, it's an 11/10S. The preset was adjusted at > the factory, and you could set most standard baud rates using the switch. It > can't hurt to measure the frequency, of course. > > I can check the printset next weekend for you if you can't figure it out. I'll measure the UART clock frequency for each position of the rotary switch after I fire up the 11/10 (hopefully this weekend). That should give me all of the information that I need (for now...) Other than the different CPU boards and the ability to function as a "slave" processor to another PDP-11, how does the 11/10S differ from a standard 11/10? My 11/10(S?) (10.5 inch box, single 16kW core plane, most date codes in early '74) was configured as a standalone system when I got it. Were the later 11/10 machines identical to the 11/10S, or did DEC just produce an "improved" CPU board set for the 11/10S and use it in the later 11/10 machines? Of course, I realize that it's possible that some board swapping has taken place and neither is the case. Thanks to everyone for the DEC key information. There isn't quite enough of a key left in the 11/10 for a screwdriver to work. I'll probably pull out the keyswitch and take it (and the key code for the 11/24 key) to a locksmith sometime in the near future. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From manney at nwohio.com Tue Aug 5 12:03:12 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <199708061649.JAA06949@mx5.u.washington.edu> I've had (2) VT-100 terminals hanging around for awhile. Anyone want them? I'll have to check & see if they fire up. Manney > I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely > I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for > about $50 on the newsgroups. > From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Wed Aug 6 08:23:47 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <77008DD40933@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On 05-Aug-97, Jeff Kaneko wrote: >If you're talking about the Altos III terminals (minus their >keyboards), I wouldn't give up just yet. IIRC, they used WYSE >terminals with (slightly) customized roms. If the keyboard plug is >round (kinda like a DIN plug, but with lots more pins) then a WY-50 >keyboard should work. Jeff, Yes, I'm still referring to the Altos III, and yes it does have a DIN plug with I believe 10 connectors. Thanks for the info! Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 6 19:00:56 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Consoles, Keys, and the PDP-11/10S In-Reply-To: from "Scott Ware" at Aug 6, 97 10:51:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2061 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/9f6d7b24/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Aug 6 20:04:18 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: You were in Field Service? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 6, 97 08:14:27 am Message-ID: <9708070004.AA01518@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1236 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970806/121920e1/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 6 20:32:21 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: new addition: grid laptop Message-ID: <970806213034_279763770@emout09.mail.aol.com> i traded my brother a ncr mca box for something called a grid compass ][ 1129. it's a quite large laptop with what seems to be in a metal case and a 3.5x5 inch screen. it also has an access door with 4 roms installed; gridrom 3.1.5 write/term/format, gridrom 3.1.0 grid-os system, gridmail 103.2.2 and gridos utility rom, 3.1.0 the machine works, but only from ac power. it also has a screen saver with bouncing balls! =D my brother says he got it from a guy who worked in the aerospace industry who said this machine was supposedly used to compute some kind of vectors or something or other for the space shuttle program back in the 80's although i have no way of quantifying that. on the back of the machine there is a proprietary serial connector and phone jacks and something called a GPIB port; can anyone say what that is? i'm still trying to figure out the preloaded apps, but i've stumbled upon a passwoid option which i may have to hack through. i welcome any info or opinions on this beast. it's esoteric enough to keep in my collection. david From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 6 22:37:00 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: new addition: grid laptop In-Reply-To: <970806213034_279763770@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >he got it from a guy who worked in the aerospace industry who said this >machine was supposedly used to compute some kind of vectors or something or >other for the space shuttle program back in the 80's although i have no way When I was in DC in the early 90's the "National Aerospace Museum" had a Grid Laptop in part of their computer/aerospace exibit, and it was in the Space Shuttle section. However, I think that one was a IBM clone running DOS or Windows. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 6 22:40:08 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: You were in Field Service? In-Reply-To: <9708070004.AA01518@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Make sure you have exactly two cab kits between the UDA50 and the RA81. > I'm not sure what your "direct connection" is... Was: UDA50----cable----->RA81 Should be: UDA50------->box from bottom of RA rack------>RA81 Is this correct? The RA81 was in a separate rack with 2 other RAs. I got it, the little box that the SDI cables plugged into at the bottom of the rack, and the terminator box. It is now sitting on top of the PDP cabinet. > > Also, it helps with multi-cabinet setups if you make real sure that > there's a solid ground connection between the two cabinets. Bolting > them together usually does the job :-) > Does sitting it on the cabinet count? I'd rack mount it, but I'd get a hernia doing it. I'd get Jeff to do it, maybe he could smash the OTHER foot... (He has broken the SAME FOOT 3 TIMES THIS YEAR! [Clutz!]) That waits till I get that little ladder, it's the right height to hold it for me. > The UDA50 has a little bank of LED's that monitor the initialization > process. Can you post the pattern they go through? They end up all on, I think. It's not here in front of me (Wish it was!) I'll post that later. I have plugged a terminal into the drive and tested it as per the documentation. It passed all the tests. That's a neat trick! Like to see an IDE of SCSI disk do that... Is there a list of commands that the drive understands? From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Aug 7 00:19:19 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: <33E95AD7.737AC7C@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or complete the missing data. I would like a month/year for the first customer shipment or the first public working demonstration of the machines. Please provide references where possible, if they are on-line then so much the better. I am also planning to extend the information per machine to include data about processor used, word-size, memory configurations etc. so feel free to add that data also. I have set the reply to address to my personal Email so as not to clutter the mail list. You can always go to the CCC to recover the updated data. If there are enopugh requests I can post an updated preview table here before the CCC gets updated. I would also be interested in a potted history of the manufacturer, date started where located and significant events in its history. I know most of this is probably available on the NET for Atari, but not for some of the more obscure companies. CCC list for Atari I think I am correct in saying that all Atari machines were designed in the USA. 400 Dec-78 800 1979 1200XL 1982 600XL 1983 800XL 1983 1040 ST 1985 130XE 1985 520 STfm 1985 520 ST Jan-85 65XE Jan-85 Mega ST 1987 Mega STe 1987 XE Game system 1987 STe 1990 TT 1990 1024 STe 1040 STf 1040 STfm 260 ST 2600 520 ST+ 520 STe 520 STm 800XE ATR-8000 Falcon 16 Mega 1 Mega 4 STacy STbook TT/16 Thanks for you help Hans B Pufal From kyrrin at wizards.net Thu Aug 7 00:45:48 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Need to make bootable TK50 tape Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970806224548.00e733e0@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, I've been loaned the full-service diagnostics tape for the MicroVAX II. I've attempted to copy said tape using a pair of SCSI TK50 drives and a binary (bit-by-bit) image copy utility. It didn't work. For some bizarre reason, I cannot boot from the copy. Question: Short of installing a second TK50 in the MicroVAX long enough to make a mirror-image copy under VMS (which is something else I don't know how to do yet), what can I do here? This is a limited-time deal; I do need to have the tape back to its original owners next week. Another question: Can I initialize the target tape with VMS in some way to make it bootable, and then copy the diags from the source tape? Please help! If I can solve this, I'll be able to archive the thing on CD-ROM and make the image available to other MicroVAXen owners. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 7 01:27:23 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? References: <3.0.1.32.19970806224548.00e733e0@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: <33E96ACB.6AA5E566@rain.org> I was checking through some boxes and found these DEC 8" floppy disks dated April 1980. They have gotten separated from something here and I have no idea what at this point. Anyone know what these things are? There are several other boxes of disks but these were the only thing I saw that might give a clue as to what machine they run on. BA-F021I-MC CZZMCI0 DYDP+3 LSI-11 #1 BA-F048H-MC CZZMTH0 DYDP+20 LSI-11 #2 BA-F558D-MC CZZMZD0 DYDP+26 LSI-11 #3 BA-F019F-MC CZZMAF0 DYDP+1 XXDP UTILITY BA-F022I-MC CZZMDIO DYDP+4 DEC/X11 #1 BA-F049I-MC CZZMDIO DYDP+4 DEC/X11 #2 From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Aug 7 01:41:59 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: Hi again. :) I can't add much, as I only recently started looking into Atari history, but the 800xe was released in 1985, and the portfolio, if you choose to include it, in 1988. Hope it helps a bit, Adam. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 7 07:27:57 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? Message-ID: <199708071227.AA19615@world.std.com> < I recently aquired a 1040 STf, what's the deal with the f designator, anyone know? Im still workin on finding a monitor. ---------- > From: Hans Pufal > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: CCC : Atari machines > Date: Thursday, August 07, 1997 12:19 AM > > OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by > Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or > complete the missing data. > > I would like a month/year for the first customer shipment or the first > public working demonstration of the machines. Please provide references > where possible, if they are on-line then so much the better. > > I am also planning to extend the information per machine to include data > about processor used, word-size, memory configurations etc. so feel free > to add that data also. > > I have set the reply to address to my personal Email so as not to > clutter the mail list. You can always go to the CCC to recover the > updated data. If there are enopugh requests I can post an updated > preview table here before the CCC gets updated. > > I would also be interested in a potted history of the manufacturer, date > started where located and significant events in its history. I know most > of this is probably available on the NET for Atari, but not for some of > the more obscure companies. > > CCC list for Atari > > I think I am correct in saying that all Atari machines were designed in > the USA. > > 400 Dec-78 > 800 1979 > 1200XL 1982 > 600XL 1983 > 800XL 1983 > 1040 ST 1985 > 130XE 1985 > 520 STfm 1985 > 520 ST Jan-85 > 65XE Jan-85 > Mega ST 1987 > Mega STe 1987 > XE Game system 1987 > STe 1990 > TT 1990 > 1024 STe > 1040 STf > 1040 STfm > 260 ST > 2600 > 520 ST+ > 520 STe > 520 STm > 800XE > ATR-8000 > Falcon 16 > Mega 1 > Mega 4 > STacy > STbook > TT/16 > > Thanks for you help > > Hans B Pufal From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Thu Aug 7 08:45:19 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: <199708070945_MC2-1C91-3D54@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by Atari. < "Machines" really isn't the operative word; for instance, the list does not include the Atari Pong, 5200 and 7800 game consoles. I assume what you are trying to put together is a list of Atari "computers". That in turn takes some philosophical interpretation as to what constitutes a "computer". The 2600 game console is on the list; I assume it's there because Atari made a BASIC cartridge and a so-called "keyboard" controller for the unit, so it was technically possible to do some quasi-BASIC programming on it, not unlike a real computer. Of course, it only had something like 50 bytes of RAM available (not 50K bytes; just 50 bytes). The number of keys on the cheesy "keyboard" controllers were so few that each key had to do triple duty depending on what "color mode" it was in at the time. (If that didn't turn people off on BASIC programming, I don't know what would.) t had no way to attach a printer, and it could not save to or load from tape (or any other storage medium), so any programs developed could not be preserved. So, is that a "computer" or not? Then, Atari produced at least some "real" add-on keyboard units for the 2600. I believe they were originally called "The Graduate", but made it to market in 1982 as "My First Computer". They had 8K, expandable to 32K, and apparently saved/loaded from standard cassette units. So does the 2600 become a "real" computer at that point, and/or should "My First Computer" be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a cartridge game machine too.) Gil Parrish 107765.1161@compuserve.com From idavis at comland.com Thu Aug 7 10:09:42 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: 1040STf Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970807150942.00909004@mail.comland.com> At 08:20 AM 8/7/97 -0500, Bill Girnius wrote: >I recently aquired a 1040 STf, what's the deal with the f designator, >anyone know? Im still workin on finding a monitor. > >---------- Bill, STF means ST+internal _F_loppy drive. There is a good web page with a bunch of ST stats and info at: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/aseabrook/a_models.htm Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis@comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 7 10:23:55 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? References: <199708071227.AA19615@world.std.com> Message-ID: <33E9E88B.55A2E3BF@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > < > > Marvin, > > For the clue impaired , the machine is LSI-11 Aka PDP-11. Those are > what > are known as xxdp diagnostics for rx02. they are quit hand to hae if > you > have a pdp11. I figured they were probably for the LSI-11 but beyond that, I didn't have a clue. I have several PDP computers including the 8i, 05, and 23. Are these similar to the paper tape diagnostics for the PDP 8? Also, is the disk format such that they have to be read on a DEC computer or can they be read on other machines? Thanks! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 7 11:42:01 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Need to make bootable TK50 tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970806224548.00e733e0@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 6, 97 10:45:48 pm Message-ID: <9708071542.AA02443@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/eb341aa4/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 7 11:44:54 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? In-Reply-To: <33E9E88B.55A2E3BF@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 7, 97 08:23:55 am Message-ID: <9708071544.AA02474@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/88ca731d/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 7 11:12:40 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? Message-ID: <199708071612.AA19245@world.std.com> Marvin, Please help identify these pieces of hardware! I finally got around to shooting some pictures of these to help ID them. Item #1: An 8080 prototype board. Who made this? http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I001.JPG Item #2: A SCSI hard disk interface box for some home computer. It has a 50-pin female edge connector on the left, an edge connector on the upper right labeled 'printer' and a 50-pin male pin connector for the hard disk. What machine is this for? http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I002.JPG Item #3: A front panel. The switches are labeled CLR, STP, MRD, MWR, ADR, EXE and numbers 2 through 15. What mainframe did this come from? http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I004.JPG Item #4: Another front panel. No bezel on this one. Has black IMSAI-style paddle switches and a hex keypad. http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I005.JPG thanks all! Kai From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 7 16:16:16 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Help identify these hardware items! (picture links) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C4AFB2@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 7, 97 10:53:26 am Message-ID: <9708072016.AA03262@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 391 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/d142e22a/attachment.ksh From starling at umr.edu Thu Aug 7 16:27:53 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <33E95AD7.737AC7C@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> from "Hans Pufal" at Aug 7, 97 07:19:19 am Message-ID: <199708072127.QAA24392@saucer.cc.umr.edu> > OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by > Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or > complete the missing data. Missing Atari Computer: Atari ATW Transputer -- They only made like 5,000 of these and I WANT ONE!!!! Now that I have my Lisa, this is my next Holy Grail. It was Atari's stab at the unix workstation market. It was a multiprocessor setup that had a 68000 as some sort of main brain and then you plugged in modules that had Transputer T800 processors on them, max 12. It ran some nifty OS called Helios and had semi-ok graphics capabilities. There's a decent page about it SOMEWHERE in Germany I think, but I can't seem to find it right now. It came out somewhere around 1988-ish. If you speak French, you can go to: http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/Jerome.Steiner/histoire/odi.htm Did you mention the Atari Portfolio? I can't remember. It was Atari's little palmtop organizer thingy... There were a few ST portables too, where there? And don't forget the clones that are still being made... * From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Thu Aug 7 14:54:01 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Help identify these hardware items! (picture links) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C4AFB2@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708072353.TAA10564@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:53:26 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Help identify these hardware items! (picture links) > Please help identify these pieces of hardware! I finally got around to > shooting some pictures of these to help ID them. > > Item #1: An 8080 prototype board. Who made this? > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I001.JPG > > Item #2: A SCSI hard disk interface box for some home computer. It has > a 50-pin female edge connector on the left, an edge connector on the > upper right labeled 'printer' and a 50-pin male pin connector for the > hard disk. What machine is this for? > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I002.JPG > > Item #3: A front panel. The switches are labeled CLR, STP, MRD, MWR, > ADR, EXE and numbers 2 through 15. What mainframe did this come from? > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I004.JPG > > Item #4: Another front panel. No bezel on this one. Has black > IMSAI-style paddle switches and a hex keypad. > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I005.JPG This panel could be from one of the Heath S100 series? > > thanks all! > > Kai Sorry, I could be mistaken but nothing to lose at guessing. Jason D. From danjo at xnet.com Thu Aug 7 19:14:09 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Right Now! Message-ID: We are running the Chatroom again for another test - come join us! We are trying to bring my ISP to it knees - don't worry - can't happen. URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/chat/ The Chat software will belly up LONG before the server 8-) We will be on until - oh Midnight CST - maybe 8-) BC From danjo at xnet.com Fri Aug 8 01:43:36 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Second Test Message-ID: Allison, Andy, Brett, Carl, Frank McConnell, Guest, Jim Willing, Kai, Thorhallur, Zane, dseagrave, and spc all came over to the chatroom. A good discussion about TI Silent 700's ensued. The largest number at one time was 7 and it didn't even dent my ISP. Well, as far as I know 8-) For most of us this is something we have heard about but not really tried. Bill Kendrick's Free Chat seems to be pretty good but not really ready for heavy usage. I am in comms with him to see if we can't get it beefed up. The next release is supposed to have multiple chatrooms so we could have a wider range of subjects. I don't know if this is something anybody wants to use. There can be a log of messages that could be condensed to keep everybody informed of any info that is dispensed on the chatroom. This is basically a test for Special Chats - in which case I think the usage would go heavier than 7 - maybe upto 40 at one time. Maybe we could have something like PDP-11 nights or Amiga nights or something like that. I would like to get *authorities* involved. Maybe "Dr. S-100" would like to host a S-100 run - something that is useful anyway. BC From rene at spartacom.nl Fri Aug 8 02:18:28 1997 From: rene at spartacom.nl (SSE Technical Support) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: FW: XT COMPUTERS Message-ID: <01BCA3DC.0943C460.rene@spartacom.nl> -----Original Message----- From: Mr. Self Destruct [SMTP:more@camlaw.rutgers.edu] Sent: donderdag 7 augustus 1997 19:26 To: Rene van der Meer Subject: Re: XT COMPUTERS On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Rene van der Meer wrote: > Hi my name is René Hello. > I am looking for a program that allows me to break the 640kb and uses the > cga memory address to make 768kb I am not sure if this exists I belief so.. I've heard of such programs, but many were machine specific and/or flaky. I'd recommend asking the fellows at the classic computer mailing list at: "classiccmp@u.washington.edu" > it is for a KAYPRO XL > my direst computer that I ever had... > please help me ... > my e-mail address is renemeer@xs4all.nl > I to like old junk Glad to hear that! Les From kevan at motiv.co.uk Fri Aug 8 06:43:41 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Free things available for UK collectors... Message-ID: <199708081143.MAA27369@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Just found this in uk.comp.misc... Does anybody out there collect old Prime kit. IBM, DEC, DG seem to be popular, so what is it about Primes that make them unpopular. I have enquired about the size of this Prime because I know they made a small 50 series machine because we used to have one when I worked for Computervision. ------- Forwarded Message From: Kevin Bradly Newsgroups: uk.comp.misc Subject: Old equipment (Prime, Sun386 etc.) for FREE Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:47:01 +0100 Organization: Bradly Associates Ltd Message-ID: <3wf0lAAF0t6zEABY@bradassoc.co.uk> Hi We have some redundant computer equipment that we are happy to give away for free providing it is collected from our premises. The following is available: PRIME 2350, 4Mb memory, 258Mb disk, 60Mb tape cartridge Mag-Tape unit, PT250 terminal SUN 386i workstation, 8Mb memory, 327Mb disk, 19" colour monitor, 60Mb tape cartidge DEC Rainbow PC100+, 10Mb disk, graphics board, MS-DOS, MS-Fortran. DEC VT125 graphics terminal, greyscale, 768 x 480 resolution PERICOM 7350 colour graphics terminal, 19" monitor, 1024 x 768 PERICOM MG200 B/W graphics terminal SIGMA 5688 colour graphics terminal Please help me clear some space in our office or suggest any other good rest-homes for this old retired equipment. Kevin Bradly Bradly Associates Ltd Manhattan House 140 High Street Crowthorne Berks. RG45 7AY UK Tel: +44 (0) 1344 779381 Fax: +44 (0) 1344 773168 e-mail: sales@bradassoc.co.uk URL: http://www.bradassoc.co.uk/ ------- End of Forwarded Message From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 8 03:42:50 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <199708071320.IAA28492@challenge.sunflower.com> Message-ID: <199708081215.IAA16773@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:20:32 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Bill Girnius" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: CCC : Atari machines > X-To: > I recently aquired a 1040 STf, what's the deal with the f designator, > anyone know? Im still workin on finding a monitor. > Check out comp.sys.atari.st The f meant internal F loppy , an m would mean a RF Modulator for use with a TV. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 8 03:42:46 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <199708070945_MC2-1C91-3D54@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <199708081215.IAA16781@smtp.interlog.com> snip > Then, Atari produced at least some "real" add-on keyboard units for the > 2600. I believe they were originally called "The Graduate", but made it to > market in 1982 as "My First Computer". They had 8K, expandable to 32K, and > apparently saved/loaded from standard cassette units. So does the 2600 > become a "real" computer at that point, and/or should "My First Computer" > be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, > which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the > separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > cartridge game machine too.) Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) ciao Larry From jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu Fri Aug 8 09:26:16 1997 From: jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Free things available for UK collectors... In-Reply-To: <199708081143.MAA27369@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> from "Kevan Heydon" at Aug 8, 97 12:43:41 pm Message-ID: <199708081426.JAA00608@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Hello - Would you be willing to ship the SUN for the cost of shipping? If so I will need the approximate weight of the system. Thanks for your time. John Ott University of Notre Dame Dept. EE 275 Fitzpatrick Hall Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA > > > Just found this in uk.comp.misc... > > Does anybody out there collect old Prime kit. IBM, DEC, DG seem to be > popular, so what is it about Primes that make them unpopular. I have > enquired about the size of this Prime because I know they made a small > 50 series machine because we used to have one when I worked for > Computervision. > > ------- Forwarded Message > From: Kevin Bradly > Newsgroups: uk.comp.misc > Subject: Old equipment (Prime, Sun386 etc.) for FREE > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:47:01 +0100 > Organization: Bradly Associates Ltd > Message-ID: <3wf0lAAF0t6zEABY@bradassoc.co.uk> > > Hi > > We have some redundant computer equipment that we are happy to give away > for free providing it is collected from our premises. > The following is available: > > PRIME 2350, 4Mb memory, 258Mb disk, 60Mb tape cartridge > Mag-Tape unit, PT250 terminal > > SUN 386i workstation, 8Mb memory, 327Mb disk, 19" colour monitor, > 60Mb tape cartidge > > DEC Rainbow PC100+, 10Mb disk, graphics board, MS-DOS, MS-Fortran. > > DEC VT125 graphics terminal, greyscale, 768 x 480 resolution > > PERICOM 7350 colour graphics terminal, 19" monitor, 1024 x 768 > > PERICOM MG200 B/W graphics terminal > > SIGMA 5688 colour graphics terminal > > > Please help me clear some space in our office or suggest any other good > rest-homes for this old retired equipment. > > Kevin Bradly > Bradly Associates Ltd > Manhattan House > 140 High Street > Crowthorne > Berks. RG45 7AY > UK > > Tel: +44 (0) 1344 779381 > Fax: +44 (0) 1344 773168 > e-mail: sales@bradassoc.co.uk > URL: http://www.bradassoc.co.uk/ > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Aug 8 09:43:09 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: The strange devices that were pictured. Message-ID: <199708081443.JAA25746@challenge.sunflower.com> I've been snooping around and I think that box with the label Supra on it, is an external SCSI HOST adapter for an ATARI ST. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Fri Aug 8 10:05:11 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Second Test Message-ID: <199708081505.AA19634@maddog.swec.com> On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:43:36 -0500, Brett spake thusly unto us: > Allison, Andy, Brett, Carl, Frank McConnell, Guest, Jim Willing, Kai, > Thorhallur, Zane, dseagrave, and spc all came over to the chatroom. > A good discussion about TI Silent 700's ensued. I either arrived late for the S700 chat, or departed early, so I missed it. The software seems to work well enough, although it some- times slowed to a crawl (which could have been my comms line). Next time, I'll try to be _awake_! (And running a different browser - I think Lynx may be excellent for the task.) > I don't know if this is something anybody wants to use. On the surface of it, it looked very interesting; I'm certainly game for another round. The only fly-in-the-ointment is getting chats scheduled and publicised. A look at the S-100 would be interesting. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 8 10:29:47 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Second Test Message-ID: <199708081529.AA20209@world.std.com> Hi René, I guess that would be my specialty. The PC memory map looks like this: C000 - FFFF - Various open areas depending on the individual machine, plus the BIOS B800 - BFFF - Low resolution (CGA or EGA/VGA low res/text) video (if present) B000 - B7FF - Monochrome adapter (if present) A000 - AFFF - High resolution (EGA/VGA) video (if present) 0000 - 9FFF- Base 640K I think what you mean is you'd like to use the high resolution area from A000-AFFF to increase base RAM size. The low resolution area is not contiguous with base RAM so it can't be used to increase base RAM size. The trick is, there is no RAM in this location that you can use to increase the base memory. So, you have to put RAM there somehow (no, video RAM won't work). There are various methods to do this. On a 386 or above, the virtual memory management allows a 386-up memory manager such as EMM386, QEMM386, or 386MAX to map memory into that location. On a 286, you could use various LIM 4.0 compliant expanded memory boards (e.g. Intel AboveBoard Plus) or a wacky device called an ALL Charge Card, along with special software to map memory into the location. On an 8088, you had to use a special card, which was a very simple device containing 64K or more of RAM, along with address selection switches. The card would map RAM into that location, and came with software to extend apparent DOS RAM. Kai > ---------- > From: SSE Technical Support > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 12:18 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: FW: XT COMPUTERS > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mr. Self Destruct [SMTP:more@camlaw.rutgers.edu] > Sent: donderdag 7 augustus 1997 19:26 > To: Rene van der Meer > Subject: Re: XT COMPUTERS > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Rene van der Meer wrote: > > > Hi my name is René > > Hello. > > > I am looking for a program that allows me to break the 640kb and > uses the > > cga memory address to make 768kb I am not sure if this exists I > belief so.. > > I've heard of such programs, but many were machine specific and/or > flaky. > I'd recommend asking the fellows at the classic computer mailing list > at: > "classiccmp@u.washington.edu" > > > it is for a KAYPRO XL > > my direst computer that I ever had... > > please help me ... > > my e-mail address is renemeer@xs4all.nl > > I to like old junk > > Glad to hear that! > Les > From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 8 15:50:20 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85809@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <33EB868B.E97E54E1@rain.org> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > On a 286, you could use various LIM 4.0 compliant expanded > memory boards > (e.g. Intel AboveBoard Plus) or a wacky device called an > ALL Charge > Card, along with special software to map memory into the > location. Quarterdeck also had a program that would expand available memory on a 286 above 640K called QRAM. I used to have it many moons ago, but got rid of it when I was cleaning house. Somehow, it also would map memory into the A000-AFFF on a mono card, but would also make more memory available even with the EGA card. Can't remember how though. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Aug 8 16:06:55 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Quarterdeck QRAM only did that with NEAT or LEAP chip sets from Chips & Technologies, by using the shadow RAM mapping, and required 1MB on the motherboard, not 640K. I didn't think that was a significant enough market share to mention. It would also work with a LIM 4.0 EMS board as I mentioned earlier. Kai > ---------- > From: Marvin > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 1:50 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: XT COMPUTERS > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > On a 286, you could use various LIM 4.0 compliant expanded > > memory boards > > (e.g. Intel AboveBoard Plus) or a wacky device called an > > ALL Charge > > Card, along with special software to map memory into the > > location. > > Quarterdeck also had a program that would expand available > memory on a 286 above 640K called QRAM. I used to have it > many moons ago, but got rid of it when I was cleaning > house. Somehow, it also would map memory into the A000-AFFF > on a mono card, but would also make more memory available > even with the EGA card. Can't remember how though. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 8 16:23:27 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85809@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 8, 97 01:07:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970808/f996257d/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 8 17:09:50 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Missing RA81 terminator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm missing one of the RA81 terminators. Can I build one? From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 8 17:42:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <33EBA0DF.29DE9D7E@rain.org> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Quarterdeck QRAM only did that with NEAT or LEAP chip sets > from Chips & > Technologies, by using the shadow RAM mapping, and > required 1MB on the > motherboard, not 640K. I didn't think that was a > significant enough > market share to mention. Ah, so that was the trick. After I saw your comments about the EGA card and using additional memory, I seem to recall that QRAM could also use the video RAM on the EGA card while it was running in mono mode but may have required a TSR to allow that. From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 8 17:51:35 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: Targa Boards References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <33EBA2F7.AB54F3B0@rain.org> There was a discussion a while ago about digitizing photos and how it would be neat to use the early technology to do so. I have the Targa 16 and Targa 24 video capture boards and figured it was worth a try and am just starting to try and set them up. The three boards I have are all circa 1985. The Targa 16 supports composite video so I will try that first. They came with some software called TIPS that apparently allows this to be done. Only problem is an unreadable Disk 2. I am going to try and see if a 360K drive will read it any better. I also have Pizazz Plus that supports the Targa boards but I don't see support for saving the files to a standard TIF file. Has anyone used the Targa boards and and can this be done without having to write specialized software? Also, has anyone used the TIPS software? Thanks. From pcoad at crl.com Fri Aug 8 17:46:52 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: (fwd) 3b2 FS or For Grabs Message-ID: Found this in comp.sys.3b1. It could be a pretty good deal if you are in the NY area. It may not yet quite yet be a classic, but it should be soon. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html -- forwarded message -- Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.3b1,comp.sys,nonpc Path: nnrp1.crl.com!news.znet.com!uunet!in5.uu.net!hotmomma!hotmomma!biancx!larry From: larry@biancx.com (Larry Racies) Subject: 3b2 FS or For Grabs Message-ID: Organization: Newsreel Service Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:56:40 GMT Lines: 11 Xref: nnrp1.crl.com comp.sys.att:7992 comp.sys.3b1:8535 comp.sys:574 T&T 3b2-400 in a 310 case SVR3 installed Plus 16 AT&T manuals and a few floppies. You name it. Located in NY City. Pick it up and take it away. Larry From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 8 18:25:04 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:31 2005 Subject: New boards! Vax/10/11/8! Message-ID: I got a whole box of interesting boards! PDP-11 BOARDS: M7264 - PDP11/03 processor, 4k ram, all 4 chip sockets used. Two of these. M8012-YA - Terminators+bootstraps. Two of these. M8716 - DR11-W DMA INTERFACE, DR11-B IN HEX M8728 - 64K MOS MEMORY M8189 - 11/23+ CPU!! This goes in mine! 2 CPUs and an MMU? PDP-8 BOARDS: M8310 - Reg control for KK8E M8300 - Major regs for KK8E M8350 - Pos. IO bus interface M8341 - EAE REGISTER CONTROL M8340 - EAE INSTRUCTION DECODER M8655 - KL8-J, KL8-KA, QUAD, 110 to 9600 CONT, Two of these. DEC10 BOARDS: M8603 - Massbus interface data board M8521 - CACHE DATA M8580 - MF20 DUAL TRANSLATOR, Two of these. M8604 - DX20 MASSBUS INTERFACE CONTROL, HEX M8571 - LP20 DATA PATH W LA180 CAPABILITY M8605 - DX20, DATA PATH BUFFER STORAGE M8743-AF - 1 Meg ECC RAM M8606 - DX20, DATA PATH FORMATTER M8607 - DX20, IBM CHANNEL BUS INTERFACE FOR DX20-C M8558-C - KI MEMORY BUS ADAPTER. Marked "BAD FOR KL10" Doesn't LOOK bad... M8723 - ??? M8579 - MF20-M, 256K 11-bit MOS RAM. Fifteen of these! M8585 - LP20 TRANSLATION RAM. Two of these. M8586 - LP20 CONTROL. M8516 - ECL to TTL translator VAX BOARDS: These make an 11/785 CPU, I think... M7459 - TRS, TERMINATOR & SILO, 11/785 M7463 - KA785, CDM, CACHE DATA MATRIX M7474 - KA785, CLK, CPU CLOCK M7462 - KA785, CAM, CACHE ADDR MATRIX M7475 - KA785, JCS, JOINT CONTROL STORE M7467 - KA785, DEP, CPU DATA PATH "B" M7472 - KA785, CEH, CONDITION CODES, EXCEPTIONS, HIGH BITS M7473 - KA785, ICL, (INTERRUPT CONTROL, LOW BITS) M7476 - KA785, USC, MICRO SEQUENCER CONTROL M7477 - KA785, CIB, CPU CONSOLE INTERFACE M7460 - KA785, SBL, SBI CPU LOW BITS INTERFACE How many more do I need to finish a KA785? And when I get them, can I drop this in a Unibus or is it a special bus? From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Fri Aug 8 11:27:07 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <199708081215.IAA16781@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On 08-Aug-97, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, >> which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the >> separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> cartridge game machine too.) > Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a >keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a >manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) Larry, I believe that initially, the XEGS keyboard was optional though. The wording in the keyboard's manaul, at least the one I have, seems to support this. The argument of whether the XEGS is a game console or a computer is one that has been going on in the newsgroups for quite some time off and on. Jeff Jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 8 23:05:37 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Effort Message-ID: <199708090405.AA09507@world.std.com> Paul, Sent this to the list. as it's generally useful. Anyone want any EPROMS? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:41:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1@aol.com To: dastar@crl.com Subject: Re: HHC docs Sam, Will do.It'll be out to you tomorrow first thing.Incidentally you might ask that gentleman or any other interested parties for that matter if they have a need for HHC eproms.I have a little over 5000 of them which I've been offered a nominal salvage value for and I'll probably unload the whole batch fairly soon. Regards,Mike From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 9 09:41:53 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: 11/23 Finally Works! Message-ID: I dropped in the 11/23+ CPU and everything worked fine, except that my EDSI harddisk has bought the big one... According to ROM diags, I have EIS and FIS for CPU options and 1024Kwords RAM. I plugged in my Infinite Loop and it ran. The one-instruction infinite loop doesn't work, at 1000 it jumps to 1006 (JMP (PC)). And the RX02 responds NO DISK, which is correct. Now all I need to do is go find an operating system! Does anyone have any programs or etc. that can be dropped in core with ODT? From dastar at crl.com Sat Aug 9 10:09:53 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Us Computer Exchange Message-ID: A guy sent me e-mail soliciting some old computer stuff to sell. Here's what he told me he has: Lots of DEC stuff: PDP-11/70s MicroVax(en) Tape Drives, etc. Parts, etc. A couple Intel development computers. Didn't go too much into detail about these other than the fact that they have dual 8" drives. Sounds neat. This guy is Rob Campbell. He is in Detroit, Michigan. His number is (248) 583-9000. Call him, talk to him. Sounds like a reasonable guy. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sat Aug 9 16:49:53 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: this list Message-ID: <199708092149.RAA13560@unix.aardvarkol.com> Well as much as I hate to do it, this will be my last message to this group for a while. Up until the first of the year, I'll be on the road anywhere from 10 to 30+ days at a time, and this group generates far too many messages for me to allow it to build up between retrievals! For those of you that I deal with quite a bit, as well as those who might find info that may be of interest to me and wish to send it, my email address below will still be valid. I've gotten a lot out of this group, so keep up the good work! Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 10:33:53 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Us Computer Exchange Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810113351.00a7bea0@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Sam Ismail happened to blather: [snip] >This guy is Rob Campbell. He is in Detroit, Michigan. His number is >(248) 583-9000. Call him, talk to him. Sounds like a reasonable guy. Uh, Sam? Are you sure this guy's in Detroit? The Area Code for phone numbers in Detroit are either (810) or (313). I've never heard of (248), especially in Michigan. (BTW, I live in the "Better" half of Michigan, in the (906) area code!) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From kyrrin at wizards.net Sun Aug 10 11:00:55 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Freebies! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970810090055.00e76960@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, Well, Bill Whitson has said he was going to collect these, but I've not heard anything back from him since we missed each other last Sunday. With that in mind, and pending any objection from him, I am offering the following freebies to anyone who wants to pick them up from Kent, WA (southeast of Seattle). 9-track tape drive, GCR-capable, Pertec interface. Made by StorageTek. NOT OPERATIONAL -- needs work. NCR 'I-Tower' computer system, with some manuals and peripherals. Processor is a Motorola 68020 (I think). Condition unknown; fired up OK, but I had no console attached. Case has built-in UPS (batteries may need replacement). Various other odds and ends, including at least one 'tech special' UPS (not on strike) and anything else I feel like unloading on whatever vict... uhh, 'collector' shows up. ;-) Get back to me via E-mail if interested. Weekends work best. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From groberts at mitre.org Sun Aug 10 11:13:33 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: area code In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970810113351.00a7bea0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970810121333.007f6100@mail90> FYI, according to http://www.555-1212.com/aclookup.html The geographical location for area code 248 is Michigan (major cities: Novi, Waterford, Troy). - glenn At 11:33 AM 8/10/97 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: >Whilst in a self-induced trance, Sam Ismail happened to blather: > >[snip] > >>This guy is Rob Campbell. He is in Detroit, Michigan. His number is >>(248) 583-9000. Call him, talk to him. Sounds like a reasonable guy. > >Uh, Sam? > >Are you sure this guy's in Detroit? The Area Code for phone numbers in >Detroit are either (810) or (313). > >I've never heard of (248), especially in Michigan. > >(BTW, I live in the "Better" half of Michigan, in the (906) area code!) > >HTH, >"Merch" >-- >Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, >Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* >zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 11:47:22 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: area code Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810124720.00a53500@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Glenn Roberts happened to blather: >FYI, according to > > http://www.555-1212.com/aclookup.html > >The geographical location for area code 248 is Michigan (major cities: >Novi, Waterford, Troy). Gwarsh, is my face red! They must have just instituted it, and that area is getting bigger than I thought! (BTW, my dad was raised in Royal Oak, and my grandparents lived in Troy for many years...) They only put the (810) area code in there around 4-5 years ago, IIRC! Well, if a whole buncha folks smarter than me say it's so, then it's so! BTW, the "better half" of Michigan is known as the Upper Peninsula (We're not even connected to the Lower Peninsula except via the Mackinac Bridge), otherwise known as "God's Country." If you like history, you'd love the area! Mail me private and I'll tell you all about it! "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 10 08:47:36 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: References: <199708081215.IAA16781@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199708101728.NAA21074@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 21:27:07 +0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Jeff Hellige > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: CCC : Atari machines > X-To: Lawrence Walker > On 08-Aug-97, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > >> be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, > >> which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the > >> separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> cartridge game machine too.) > > > Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a > >keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a > >manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) > > Larry, > > I believe that initially, the XEGS keyboard was optional though. The > wording in the keyboard's manaul, at least the one I have, seems to support > this. The argument of whether the XEGS is a game console or a computer is one > that has been going on in the newsgroups for quite some time off and on. > > Jeff Jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 The one I have had basic built into it's 32k ROM and was functionally an XE . If the XL and XE qualify then so does the XEGS IMHO. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 10 08:47:28 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708101728.NAA21085@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:06:55 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: RE: XT COMPUTERS > Quarterdeck QRAM only did that with NEAT or LEAP chip sets from Chips & > Technologies, by using the shadow RAM mapping, and required 1MB on the > motherboard, not 640K. I didn't think that was a significant enough > market share to mention. > > It would also work with a LIM 4.0 EMS board as I mentioned earlier. > > Kai > I had a Phillips XT that had 760k RAM. No idea how they did it but it reported the memory available at start-up and definitely didn't use Quarterdeck. ciao larry From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 13:14:35 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810141433.00a63100@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Lawrence Walker happened to blather: >> On 08-Aug-97, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> >> >> be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, >> >> which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the ^^^^^^^^^^ [[ part I missed before I re-read the msg. ]] >> >> separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> cartridge game machine too.) >> >> > Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a >> >keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a >> >manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) >> >> Larry, >> >> I believe that initially, the XEGS keyboard was optional though. The >> wording in the keyboard's manaul, at least the one I have, seems to support >> this. The argument of whether the XEGS is a game console or a computer is one >> that has been going on in the newsgroups for quite some time off and on. > The one I have had basic built into it's 32k ROM and was >functionally an XE . If the XL and XE qualify then so does >the XEGS IMHO. After reading the message three times (as I'd misread it twice), I agree with Larry. Let's remember what the true defination of a computer is: "A machine that can perform arithmatic and logical calculations without the aid of a human." My Casio watch -- by defination -- is a computer. (of course, it's not classic _yet_, tho. ;-) The inclusion of a keyboard does not matter to the defination of a computer, else there are many folks with IMSAIs and Altairs with front panel switchboards, which IMHO is not a "keyboard" per se, yet they are computers. The XEGS (or 2600, 5200, 7800 as well) are computers as well. Remember, you _could_ do Basic programming on a 2600! Just MHO, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From kyrrin at wizards.net Sun Aug 10 14:07:17 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Need: RX50 Utility Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970810120717.00e72cd0@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, I have need of a utility that will allow me to read/write RX50 diskettes, initialized with MicroVMS 4.6, on a PC. Formatting ability is not necessary, as I can initialize with the VAXStation. So far, I've tried both PUTR and RX50.EXE (the archive). Neither has worked. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 10 21:53:09 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed Message-ID: <970810225309_-1637074272@emout17.mail.aol.com> i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in north carolina. david From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 22:23:19 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810232317.0093e240@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, SUPRDAVE@aol.com happened to blather: >i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, >and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a >video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i >do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video >port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone >figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get >rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in >north carolina. If it's a sub-miniature DB-15, then that sounds like a PC VGA plug-in. If it's a normal-sized DB-15, then that sounds like it's a direct-connect for a later-model Smackintosh. (I say this jokingly, I have one...) When I say later-model, I'm talking a Mac IIsi or something like that, altho I think the PowerMacs use that connector as well, and I believe it's compatible. (I had my Mac IIsi hooked up to the monitor we use for a PowerMac 6100/60 at work, and it worked fine.) If you're looking to get rid of it, I would pay shipping to Michigan... yea, it'd be expensive, but if it's a nice tube, it would make my Mac happy... (all I have is the base, but it only cost me $5 and it works!) Got a keyboard & mouse to round out the deal??? ;-) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 10 23:46:08 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed In-Reply-To: <970810225309_-1637074272@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, >and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a >video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i >do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video >port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone >figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get >rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in >north carolina. I don't suppose you have a Apple IIgs you can try it out on? They use a DB15 connectory and RGB monitors. I've heard that some of the early Mac's can use RGB monitors, but have never gotten around to trying out any of mine on one of my RGB monitors. Out of curosity when you say big, just how big do you mean? I've seen some monitors with a tilt screen, but I didn't think they were motorized (might have been). Since it is beige and RGB the odds are it was intended for the Apple IIe or III, if it was for the IIgs or any Mac that could handle a external monitor it would be platinum. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marcw at lightside.com Sun Aug 10 20:51:43 1997 From: marcw at lightside.com (marcw@lightside.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS Message-ID: <199708110446.VAA29226@covina.lightside.com> > I had a Phillips XT that had 760k RAM. No idea how they did it but > it reported the memory available at start-up and definitely didn't > use Quarterdeck. > > ciao larry > My Tandy 1000 HX has a memory board giving me 736K RAM (and EMS). I don't know how they do it but it's pretty neat. That added new life to this old machine though. Marc -- >> ANIME SENSHI << Marc D. Williams marcw@lightside.com Lightside, Inc. marc.williams@mb.fidonet.org The MailBox BBS marc.williams@652.sasbbs.com Paradigm Shift BBS IRC Nick: Senshi Channel: #dos #IrcHelp http://www.agate.net/~tvdog/internet.html -- DOS Internet Tools From mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu Mon Aug 11 06:00:30 1997 From: mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS In-Reply-To: <199708110446.VAA29226@covina.lightside.com>; from marcw@lightside.com on Sun, Aug 10, 1997 at 08:51:43PM +0000 References: <199708110446.VAA29226@covina.lightside.com> Message-ID: <19970811060030.13465@beret.cs.utexas.edu> I remember back in '97 when marcw@lightside.com wrote: > My Tandy 1000 HX has a memory board giving me 736K RAM (and EMS). > I don't know how they do it but it's pretty neat. Heck, if you want to count EMS, my old Zenith Z-159 could be expanded to something like 6MB (4 cards @ 1.5MB/card). As I recall, upgrading the first memory board (which contained the 640k to start) involved replacing a PAL or two and just adding the chips. m@ -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */ From dgc at pa.dec.com Mon Aug 11 10:42:39 1997 From: dgc at pa.dec.com (David G Conroy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Morrow MD1 Message-ID: <9708111542.AA13944@src-mail.pa.dec.com> does anyone have technical documentation (prints would be nice, but just a high quality description of what's where in the address space of the z80 would make following out things easier) for a Morrow micro-decision md-1. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 11 14:24:59 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Need: RX50 Utility In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970810120717.00e72cd0@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 10, 97 12:07:17 pm Message-ID: <9708111824.AA07963@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 778 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970811/08271946/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 11 13:45:28 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: <9708111542.AA13944@src-mail.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <33EF5DC8.765B68EC@rain.org> d?? From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 11 14:08:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires References: <9708111824.AA07963@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <33EF6336.BF31D5FA@rain.org> I just read the book "Accidental Empires" by Robert X. Cringely that was the basis for the PBS movie, "Triumph of the Nerds." The book deals primarily with the early personalities who were instrumental to the success of Apple and Microsoft. It is very liberally sprinkled with Cringely's ideas of why the major players were successful as well as the mistakes they made. I found it a bit disappointing in that very little mention is made of CP/M, its history, or the associated people, companies, and machines. However a lot of Apple and Microsoft history gets included and I found the anecdotes to be most interesting! I wouldn't call it a "must read" but rather something that gives one authors perspective on the happenings and sometimes behind the scenes events that created this industry. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 11 14:51:22 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Latest trade list Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC228@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> OK, it's been a month or two since my last trade list post, so here goes: Computers For Trade: - Apple II+ - Apple IIgs (cpu only, appears to have 192K) - Apple IIgs (cpu only, appears to have 320K) - Apple Macintosh 128 w/correct keyboard & mouse, boot disk - Atari 800, fully populated 48K - Atari 520STfm - Atari 1040STf - Atari 1040STf (missing some keys) - Commodore 64 in original box - Commodore 128D (rare 128 with built-in 1571 drive & PS, separate kbd) - North Star Horizon, wood case model - Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I CPU & monitor (supply your own PS) - Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 with 16K RAM Expansion Peripherals For Trade: - Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Disk II drive (labeled drive 1) - Commodore Amiga 5 1/4" drive (Rare!) - ICL Multi I/O SCSI HD interface for Atari 8-bit with 130XE connector - SoftStrip Reader (extremely rare) - Supra SCSI HD interface for Atari ST Game Systems/Games For Trade: - GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex - Magnavox Odyssey2 in original box - Tengen Tetris cart for NES WANTED: - Anything MITS, IMSAI, etc. and various other S-100 and/or 8080/Z-80 stuff; drive systems, cards... - Battery for Apple Macintosh Portable - Battery for IBM PC Convertible - Apple Lisa Mouse - Apple-II-On-A-Card for PC (Quadram, Trackstar) - Exidy Sorcerer - 1975 BYTEs, Popular Electronics, 1974-75 Radio Electronics - Brochures, ads, Micro Shopper/Byte Shopper, etc. - Posters - Robert Tinney prints - Microsoft Adventure From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 11 14:58:20 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC236@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Does anyone know what a Corvus Concept is? thanks Kai From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 11 15:41:25 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires In-Reply-To: <33EF6336.BF31D5FA@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > I just read the book "Accidental Empires" by Robert X. Cringely that was the > basis for the PBS movie, "Triumph of the Nerds." The book deals primarily > with the early personalities who were instrumental to the success of Apple > and Microsoft. It is very liberally sprinkled with Cringely's ideas of why > the major players were successful as well as the mistakes they made. I > found it a bit disappointing in that very little mention is made of CP/M, > its history, or the associated people, companies, and machines. However a > lot of Apple and Microsoft history gets included and I found the anecdotes > to be most interesting! I wouldn't call it a "must read" but rather > something that gives one authors perspective on the happenings and sometimes > behind the scenes events that created this industry. I'll add that I thought the book to be extremely entertaining and a great read. I'll comment on the fact that not much mention was made of CP/M in that history seldom celebrates the losers. (No I don't mean CP/M or Mr. Kildall are losers! Just that it lost the OS wars.) Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Mon Aug 11 16:23:27 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Latest trade list In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC228@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 11, 97 12:51:22 pm Message-ID: <199708112123.RAA00253@hiway1.exit109.com> Hi! Out of curiousity, do you have cash values attached to any of the stuff on your trade list? I confess to an interest in one of the Apple //gs's, but the closes I have to anything on your want list is a disk-only copy of Microsoft Adventure (13-sector, no less). Thanks... <<>> From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Mon Aug 11 16:23:36 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires Message-ID: <01IMBGL8HBDEBDNC5E@cc.usu.edu> On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > I just read the book "Accidental Empires" by Robert X. Cringely that was the > basis for the PBS movie, "Triumph of the Nerds." Sam Ismail wrote: > I'll add that I thought the book to be extremely entertaining and a great > read. I'll comment on the fact that not much mention was made of CP/M in > that history seldom celebrates the losers. I just recently saw "Triumph of the Nerds" (playing a lot lately on a PBS station near you, no doubt) and was fascinated by the view of history presented in it. Basically, if it did not involve Apple, Microsoft, or IBM, it wasn't history; they only started talking about CP/M when it got to the "and IBM needed an operating system" part of the story. One curious bit. The statement that Apple had 50% of the PC market share when IBM came out with its PC stuck in my mind. Going through my pile of old BYTE magazines, I found a BYTE from that era (well, 1984 actually; which is actually a match for era because they were building up the Macintosh story) which gives 50% of the market share to Tandy... Roger "cut my teeth on a TRS-80 Model I" Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 11 16:48:30 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: <9708111542.AA13944@src-mail.pa.dec.com> <33EF5DC8.765B68EC@rain.org> Message-ID: <33EF88AE.CAE0A352@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > d?? I did not! Somehow the message got scrambled . Anyway, I have something called a VersaWriter that I neither know what it is or what it goes to for sure. Basically it consists of a 1/4" piece of plastic 12" x 14" with an arm attached. The ribbon cable going to the arm ends at a 16 Pin DIP plug that looks the same as those that plug into an Apple. Anyone know anything about what this is and what it goes to and/or with? Thanks. From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 11 17:08:21 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires In-Reply-To: <01IMBGL8HBDEBDNC5E@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Roger Ivie wrote: > One curious bit. The statement that Apple had 50% of the PC market share > when IBM came out with its PC stuck in my mind. Going through my pile of > old BYTE magazines, I found a BYTE from that era (well, 1984 actually; which > is actually a match for era because they were building up the Macintosh > story) which gives 50% of the market share to Tandy... > > Roger "cut my teeth on a TRS-80 Model I" Ivie > ivie@cc.usu.edu Tandy rarely released hard numbers of units sold, and since they were vertically integrated (manufacture, distribution _and_ retail), any counts of sales were those in the hands of end users. Apple, IBM, etc. considered a system sold if it was at a Computerland or other retailer, whether or not it actually reached a home or office. This skews the figures a lot when Tandy _did_ release them. Of course, they also had multiple product lines between the strictly home units (Color Computer), home/light office (Model 1/3/4) and serious office (Model 2/12/16/6000). And the Model 100 was a special case: my RSCC delivered at least 500 of those at $1,000 a pop to the Los Angeles Times alone, since _every_ reporter wanted one and the NEC 8201 didn't have the built-in modem. There were a lot of single sales of those as well. Then of course when the Tandy 2000 came out followed by the PC compatibles things started to get confusing. Oh yeah, I forgot the pocket computers. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 11 18:29:52 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: VersaWriter In-Reply-To: <33EF88AE.CAE0A352@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > I did not! Somehow the message got scrambled . Anyway, I have > something called a VersaWriter that I neither know what it is or what it > goes to for sure. Basically it consists of a 1/4" piece of plastic 12" x > 14" with an arm attached. The ribbon cable going to the arm ends at a 16 > Pin DIP plug that looks the same as those that plug into an Apple. Anyone > know anything about what this is and what it goes to and/or with? Thanks. Maybe its an Apple touch pad? Like a Koala pad? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 11 20:38:05 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Hey Bruce - don't get rid of it yet! Message-ID: Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in a cast and car-less (for a while) and can't get to read the list. Maybe we should have a little *Net Get Well* party for him? If you need to talk to him - he is at the Other Address. Let's not flood him under but I think short Get Well's will be appreciated. BC From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 11 20:40:40 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: apple gs rgb monitor help needed. Message-ID: <970811214007_-1035871978@emout20.mail.aol.com> i came across some good luck today and bought an applecolor rgb monitor; looks like it belongs with the gs model. however, when i connect it to a rgb source, all i manage to get is a wavy blue bar and no text. i fiddled with all controls and could stop the rapid scrolling, but that's about it. i still get a diagonal blue bar that moves. does anyone know of an internal control or setting i can check out? i'd hate to think i have TWO apple rgb monitors that are bad! david From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 11 22:56:49 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept In-Reply-To: Kai Kaltenbach's message of Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:58:20 -0700 References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC236@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708120356.UAA12095@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Kai Kaltenbach writes: > Does anyone know what a Corvus Concept is? A little. I have one, haven't actually fired it up as yet but have looked through the manuals a bit. It's a 68000-based system, integrated monochrome graphics, can deal with the monitor in either portrait or landscape rotation. (I'm not sure how it knows which way you've positioned the monitor, I think you have to tell it.) Has built-in Corvus Omninet, which means it can hook up to an Omninet network with other stuff and I believe can be a file server or a diskless system or a diskful stand-alone system. I think Corvus had word processing and spreadsheet software for it, as well as a Pascal compiler. The innards of the operating system (what I saw in the programming manuals) reminded me a lot of UCSD Pascal/p-System, but it didn't seem to have a p-machine in there anywhere, it just ran 68000 code and I guess that is what the Pascal compiler produces. I gathered it would be pretty easy to port stuff developed for UCSD Pascal, and I guess that's not too surprising as there was a bit of that deployed with Corvus networking on Apple ][s. There was a review in Byte sometime in 1984 or maybe 1983. I don't remember and all my Bytes are in storage, with the Concept and the manuals and other documentation I have for it. The monitor is the monitor. The base is where the CPU lives. If it has disks they are in separate boxes; I think I have one that is a hard disk and another that is an 8" floppy drive. There's an external keyboard too. If you have other questions, holler and I'll go find the manuals, I really ought to inventory them anyway. -Frank McConnell From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 02:03:26 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: Message-ID: <33F00ABE.97BE4A5D@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > something called a VersaWriter that I neither know what it is or what it > > > goes to for sure. Basically it consists of a 1/4" piece of plastic 12" > x > > 14" with an arm attached. The ribbon cable going to the arm ends at a > 16 > > Pin DIP plug that looks the same as those that plug into an Apple. > Anyone > > know anything about what this is and what it goes to and/or with? > Thanks. > > Maybe its an Apple touch pad? Like a Koala pad? No, it was not like a Koala pad or touch pad but more like a digitizing pad. The end of the arm looks like it has a magnifying lens on it. The arm assembly looks a lot like a miniature version of a drafting machine. From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 12 08:53:28 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Yeek! I 'Bruced' him!! In-Reply-To: <199708120702.AAA28687@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970812065328.00e6b620@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 12-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:38:05 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brett >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Hey Bruce - don't get rid of it yet! >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck >going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce >but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in >a cast and car-less (for a while) and can't get to read the list. Maybe >we should have a little *Net Get Well* party for him? Yikes! No offense taken, but I'd prefer to have something a little more pleasant associated with the term -- perhaps being loaded down with hardware? ;-) Anyway.... thanks, Brett! I'm sorry to hear about the wreck, and I will hold the stuff for him until I know one way or the other. Glad to hear it wasn't more serious than a cast. Any details on where or who hit him? There are a couple of hotspots on the route to my place that are unavoidable unless you really know the area well and, for the sake of my own hide, I'm curious as to where he got nailed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From william at ans.net Tue Aug 12 09:17:13 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> I attended a hamfest Sunday, in order to clear out some crap. I managed to get a few things, namely RSX-11M manuals, and a maintenance manual for a big CDC drive. I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM 7090 of some sort. Of course I wretched. The loss of the PDP-8s is bad (I do not know specific model numbers), but the others are a real shame. Known PDP-9s number in the _low_ single digits, the 7090 perhaps less, but old Burroughs equipment is probably extinct. In any case, this shows that the stuff was not _all_ scrapped years ago. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 12 09:33:33 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > 7090 of some sort. I think; I may scream! *How* do we reach these people *before* things like this happen?!? (preferably without starting a mad rush from yuppie collector wannabes!) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 12 09:40:57 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: VersaWriter In-Reply-To: Marvin's message of Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:03:26 -0700 References: <33F00ABE.97BE4A5D@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708121440.HAA02818@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Marvin writes: > No, it was not like a Koala pad or touch pad but more like a digitizing > pad. The end of the arm looks like it has a magnifying lens on it. The arm > assembly looks a lot like a miniature version of a drafting machine. The arm has joints at its base and middle, right? And the base of the arm is at the top center of the pad? I'd expect this thing to look like two game paddles to an Apple ][, where the obligatory 150K linear pots are mounted at the joints so to report their angles. That and software could get you a tolerable digitizing tablet depending on how tolerant you are and the quality of the pots. My vague recollection is one of seeing it advertised in Creative Computing in the early 1980s, maybe by one of CC's related companies, but I may very well have my wires crossed. -Frank McConnell From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 09:40:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > 7090 of some sort. > > Of course I wretched. The loss of the PDP-8s is bad (I do not know > specific model numbers), but the others are a real shame. Known PDP-9s > number in the _low_ single digits, the 7090 perhaps less, but old > Burroughs equipment is probably extinct. > > In any case, this shows that the stuff was not _all_ scrapped years ago. This shows the need to get the word out to people that you collect old computers. You never know who's going to say "Oh really? My dad has this old mainframe in his garage that he's throwing out next week." Once word gets out that you collect old computers, people will be coming to you. It gets in their head and they start to find the opportunities for you through casual contacts with friends and relatives. This has happened to me on a few occassions; people I have explained my hobby to have come back to me saying they saw System X or heard of someone wanting to get rid of System Y. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 09:57:36 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: <33F00ABE.97BE4A5D@rain.org> <199708121440.HAA02818@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <33F079E0.B10BBAF9@rain.org> Frank McConnell wrote: > Marvin writes: > > No, it was not like a Koala pad or touch pad but more like a digitizing > > pad. The end of the arm looks like it has a magnifying lens on it. The > arm > > assembly looks a lot like a miniature version of a drafting machine. > > The arm has joints at its base and middle, right? And the base of the > arm is at the top center of the pad? > > I'd expect this thing to look like two game paddles to an Apple ][, > where the obligatory 150K linear pots are mounted at the joints so to > report their angles. That and software could get you a tolerable > digitizing tablet depending on how tolerant you are and the quality of > the pots. Great, your description sounds just like it! I can't recall where it came from and everytime I looked at it, I figured it HAD to be worth saving :). From william at ans.net Tue Aug 12 10:00:39 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708121500.AA11613@interlock.ans.net> > > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > > 7090 of some sort. > > *How* do we reach these people *before* things like this happen?!? Had I been to a hamfest a few weeks earlier, all of the goods would now be sitting in my storage locker (I seriously would have purchased the whole lot). I have a sign that either sits on my table, or hangs from my neck (yes, I look like an idiot, but it works), that has done wonders in the past. > (preferably without starting a mad rush from yuppie collector wannabes!) They will never go for the big stuff. Except for funrniture and cars, big things rarely get popular in the collecting (an subsequent investment) scenes. In any case, I am going to stay on top of this guy, even though he now deals with PC scrap. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 12 09:57:46 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: V7 Unix. WAS: Re: Success Story (fwd) Message-ID: I saw a thing on SCO's webpage about submitting a success story to win a prize. I decided it was time for some shameless plugging! Look what I got in return... He almost gets the point... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:23:52 -0400 From: Jim Sullivan To: dseagrav@tek-star.net Subject: Re: Success Story Well this came in through a strange interface.... At 05:20 PM 8/11/97 MDT, you wrote: >Name: Daniel Seagraves >Telephone: 692-5893 > >Customer's Environment: I have a PDP-11. I bet it would make for some >pretty decent advertising if you'd give me the >source to compile Unix on it... :) Well, since much of the early UNIX development was done on PDP11s, a version of UNIX could possilbe be found for it, but it's probably very old and out of date. Of note, my first job in the industry was with a company called Human Computing Resources (later HCR, later merged with SCO). HCR was one of the pioneers in the UNIX industry and was the provider of UNIX ports and layered implementations of UNIX across many platforms, including PDP11s. PDP11/Unity was one of our products. Of course, we don't sell it anymore and haven't sold it for over a decade. I seriously doubt that the current UNIX source code could easily port to the PDP11 environment. >The Economics: To be determined. Probably not worth it... >System Configuration: 2 systems: >PDP-11/44 Unknown RAM, RA81 475MB 12" harddisk > 32 terminal ports, FPP, misc. goodies. >PDP-11/23+ 1 meg RAM, KDF11-B CPU, No harddisk, 2 > RX02 8" Floppy drives. Well, loading UNIX, as it exists today, into 1M, may be impossible. Good Luck, but I don't think I can help you. ---- Jim Sullivan "Don't plant your bad days. They grow into bad SMB Segment Marketing weeks and then bad months and before you know it SCO - jim@sco.com you've got a bad year" - Tom Waits 416 216 4611 From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 12 09:59:56 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM ^^^^^^ Darn Darn Darn Darn Darn! I wanted one! And I know someone who could've used the CPU. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Tue Aug 12 10:08:37 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:33:33 -0700 (PDT), Mr. Willing graced us with these words: > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks > > ago, he _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really > > old. Amongst the deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a > > Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM 7090 of some sort. > > I think; I may scream! I had the same sort of reaction when I heard the news through different channels. Needless to say I was less than pleased. However, Mr. Donzelli believes there to be hope in this; he states that the guy in question was willing to let him know about future systems like that. > *How* do we reach these people *before* things like this happen?!? That's the proverbial $64,000 (65,536?) dollar question. I guess we'll have to get to know the various scrap dealers (and especially "recyclers") in our areas. > (preferably without starting a mad rush from yuppie collector > wannabes!) This is another hot-button issue with me, having seen what the price of Altairs and the like is now. (No, the price is not justifiable - other than the machines are very "trendy" right now and speculators think they can make a killing on them.) However, given the size of things like PDP-9s and mainframes, I doubt that systems in that class are likely to fall victim to "speculative collection". Some of the smaller machines in the PDP-8 class might, but the PDP-8/I I just acquired filled half of the rear of my minivan (the other half had an Interdata Model 4 in it) - a bit too large for the average yuppie. You've got to be pretty sick to collect things the size of refrigerators (yes, I know, I fit the bill). Cheers. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 12 11:15:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: V7 Unix. WAS: Re: Success Story (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 12, 97 09:57:46 am Message-ID: <9708121515.AA08919@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970812/cad2dcf3/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Tue Aug 12 10:17:34 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: <199708121517.AA13050@interlock.ans.net> > I had the same sort of reaction when I heard the news through > different channels. Needless to say I was less than pleased. However, > Mr. Donzelli believes there to be hope in this; he states that the > guy in question was willing to let him know about future systems > like that. Although he thinks I am a nutbar for wanting such things, he did tell me to bother him every so often. Occasionally, he probably does get a goodie or two. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 12 11:20:58 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> from "Carl R. Friend" at Aug 12, 97 11:08:37 am Message-ID: <9708121520.AA10071@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970812/be5f9b08/attachment.ksh From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 12 16:20:25 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Superbrain Message-ID: <9707128714.AA871428386@compsci.powertech.co.uk> One machine I hear very little about nowadays - the Superbrain. It was one of the CPM machines that competed with the later PETs and things, and there used to be one that sat in the librarian's office where I work. One day I saw it being trundled towards the stores, and sure enough it appeared in the skip soon afterward. A little discussion with our procurement (= disposals) people, and the machine went home with me. It now sits on my shelves, waiting for someone to give it a boot disk. Anyone know where to get system disks for this machine? I have one friend who keeps promising to ask his neighbour (etc....) to get me one, but said neighbour never seems to be available. Can anyone else get me a disk? - I will pay all reasonable costs involved, of course. Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 11:01:27 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please References: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: <33F088D7.BD1D3D93@rain.org> Carl R. Friend wrote: > This is another hot-button issue with me, having seen what the > price of Altairs and the like is now. (No, the price is not > justifiable - other than the machines are very "trendy" right now > and speculators think they can make a killing on them.) However, I would disagree with your statement that the price is not justifiable; as we all know, the price of something is the price people are willing to pay. The more people that are looking for these classics, the more they will be saved from the unmentionable that happened to the PDP9, etc. For my part, I would rather such computers were desireable enough that they are worth more to a collector (cost wise) than salvage dealers; the marketplace will decide what they are really worth. And just to call a spade a spade, of course I would rather acquire these machines for free! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 12 12:14:00 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <33F088D7.BD1D3D93@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 12, 97 09:01:27 am Message-ID: <9708121614.AA10314@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970812/ba380473/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 12 11:29:55 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:32 2005 Subject: Sickness (was: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: (on a little lighter note...) On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > ...the PDP-8/I I just acquired filled half of the rear of my > minivan (the other half had an Interdata Model 4 in it) - a bit > too large for the average yuppie. You've got to be pretty sick to > collect things the size of refrigerators (yes, I know, I fit the bill). Well, if size is any indication then I'm well into the 'sickness' too! (8/i, 8/e, 11/40, 11/70, 11/780, 11/750 among others) And quite happy to be there! Of course, then there is Paul Pierce who can quite easily embarrass most of us with a single piece of his collection (based on mass/volume) B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 12 11:41:12 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Superbrain Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF612C@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Hi Philip, Don Maslin has the list of Intertec stuff below in his collection of CP/M boot disks. He is kind enough to distribute these in the U.S. for his cost of $3/first disk and $1/each additional. Contact him at donm@cts.com and see what it would run for international shipping. Kai INTERTEC SUPERBRAIN & COMPUSTAR Name Format Description QD-BIOS4 DSDD System disk w/ experimental BIOS QD-UTILS DSDD System-specific utilities QD-ZCPR3 DSDD ZCPR BIOS and source QDHDBIOS DSDD Hard disk BIOSes SBRAIN32 SSDD SUPERBRAIN v 3.2 system disk VPU-COMM SSDD COMPUSTAR communications files VPU30ENH SSDD COMPUSTAR enhanced system disk VPU30NON SSDD COMPUSTAR non-enhanced system disk VPU30NRM SSDD COMPUSTAR non-enhanced system disk WATSTAR DSDD COMPUSTAR(?) network BIOS & files COMPUSTR TXT System description SBRNINFO TXT Boot-up information CMPSTR30 ZIP COMPUSTAR system files CSR-COMM SSDD Backup to VPU-COMM CSR30ENH SSDD Backup to VPU30ENH CSR30NON SSDD Backup to VPU30NON CSR30NRM SSDD Backup to VPU30NRM NEW.COM Short program to allow 'smarter' C'Star to run non enhanced operating system NORMAL.COM Restores screen to normal video > ---------- > From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 9:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Superbrain > > One machine I hear very little about nowadays - the Superbrain. > > It was one of the CPM machines that competed with the later PETs and > things, and there used to be one that sat in the librarian's office > where I work. One day I saw it being trundled towards the stores, and > > sure enough it appeared in the skip soon afterward. > > A little discussion with our procurement (= disposals) people, and the > > machine went home with me. It now sits on my shelves, waiting for > someone to give it a boot disk. > > Anyone know where to get system disks for this machine? I have one > friend who keeps promising to ask his neighbour (etc....) to get me > one, > but said neighbour never seems to be available. Can anyone else get > me > a disk? - I will pay all reasonable costs involved, of course. > > Philip. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. > Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. > Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; > Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. > > Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by > Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > > From kevan at motiv.co.uk Tue Aug 12 11:43:05 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (kevan@motiv.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Superbrain In-Reply-To: <9707128714.AA871428386@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708121643.RAA16584@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> In message <9707128714.AA871428386@compsci.powertech.co.uk>you write: > One machine I hear very little about nowadays - the Superbrain. Yep, I can remember drooling over them when I was a kid. Dual Z80's and 64K seemed like more than you could ever need. I now have one :-) > A little discussion with our procurement (= disposals) people, and the > machine went home with me. It now sits on my shelves, waiting for > someone to give it a boot disk. > > Anyone know where to get system disks for this machine? I have some. I also live in the UK (Cambridge) so shipping won't be much. I actually have a Superbrain Jr. I can't remember what density disks it has but I will check tonight. What model is yours. Did the company Intertec make any other machines? -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 12 11:46:41 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <33F088D7.BD1D3D93@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > Carl R. Friend wrote: > > > This is another hot-button issue with me, having seen what the > > price of Altairs and the like is now. (No, the price is not > > justifiable - other than the machines are very "trendy" right now > > and speculators think they can make a killing on them.) However, > > I would disagree with your statement that the price is not justifiable; as > we all know, the price of something is the price people are willing to pay. > The more people that are looking for these classics, the more they will be > saved from the unmentionable that happened to the PDP9, etc. For my part, I > would rather such computers were desireable enough that they are worth more > to a collector (cost wise) than salvage dealers; the marketplace will > decide what they are really worth. And just to call a spade a spade, of > course I would rather acquire these machines for free! The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are throwing these outlandish amounts of money around! The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would preserve both the machine and its history. Once the percieved value of a given item is (publically) driven up, either by speculators with too much money to spend or too many badly out of touch New York/L.A. Times articles, it can take a very long time for the prices to return to reality (if they ever do). And once an item is in the hands of one of these money oriented types, it may well languish in a vault(sic) until someone will pay the 'proper' prices, or when the novelty has worn off the item may still end up in the trash rather than being released for a more reasonable price. (don't laugh, I regularly deal with a *lot* of these types!) There has got to be a balance somewhere, I'm just not sure how to get there. Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kevan at motiv.co.uk Tue Aug 12 11:54:07 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (kevan@motiv.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708121654.RAA16810@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> > This shows the need to get the word out to people that you collect old > computers. You never know who's going to say "Oh really? My dad has > this old mainframe in his garage that he's throwing out next week." Once > word gets out that you collect old computers, people will be coming to > you. I would agree with this. I have a web site and I get all sorts of offers from people trying to sell me machines. I just got this one from "tv43@digital.net" > I have two (somewhat rare) Apple III systems that miraculously, work. > Both in great condition (although one has a little tear in the > green-screen fabric). Also have an external 5.25 sloppy drive and misc. > software. > > I know what they cost new, but have no idea of their value now. I'd > like to sell one or both or will consider trading for a modern > portable. If interested, please contact me. I already have a III and they seem to be in the US so shipping is a problem. If anybody wants to follow up then feel free. I haven't been offered any 'big things' yet, but that is probably to do with not having any in my collection. Regards -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 12 12:17:34 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF6175@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> > The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into > consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are > throwing > these outlandish amounts of money around! > Do we have any evidence of outlandish prices actually being paid? There are lots of newspaper articles referencing ridiculous amounts for an Apple I like $10-$15K, but no facts to back them up. The only documented sale in existence is the one at the 1996 Computer Bowl charity auction for $22K, but that hardly counts. Does anyone have any facts about Altairs or IMSAIs going for thousands? > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > preserve both the machine and its history. > While there seem to be quite a lot of "Altair / IMSAI Wanted" ads on USENET, I've never actually communicated with anyone who was in this for the speculation. Does anyone know someone who is? My advice to anyone who actually wanted to speculate in old computers would be to buy a ton of Apple IIe/IIc's and Commodore 64's - like a warehouse full. They're common as dirt right now and go for garage sale prices. When all of those people whose first computer was one of those hit age 50 (in approximately 2015) they're going to have to buy one, and you'd be in fat city :) > Once the percieved value of a given item is (publically) driven up, > either > by speculators with too much money to spend or too many badly out of > touch > New York/L.A. Times articles, it can take a very long time for the > prices > to return to reality (if they ever do). > That's the truth brother. > And once an item is in the hands of one of these money oriented types, > it > may well languish in a vault(sic) until someone will pay the 'proper' > prices, or when the novelty has worn off the item may still end up in > the > trash rather than being released for a more reasonable price. (don't > laugh, I regularly deal with a *lot* of these types!) > Really?!? Egads. > There has got to be a balance somewhere, I'm just not sure how to get > there. > > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? > Geez, I found homes for a couple of nice Osbornes at your Tigard swap meet for $15-$20 apiece. What was I thinking! :) Kai From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 12 18:35:01 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Superbrain Message-ID: <9707128714.AA871436486@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I have some. I also live in the UK (Cambridge) so shipping won't be > much. I actually have a Superbrain Jr. I can't remember what density > disks it has but I will check tonight. What model is yours. Excellent. Thank you very much. I too shall check such things tonight - if I can (I have no documentation at all) > Did the company Intertec make any other machines? According to Kai Kaltenbach's recent post, it seems they made something called a Compustar. The name doesn't ring any bells for me, however. If you're in Cambridge, you ought to belong to the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society. I think Richard Davies (rjd27@cam.ac.uk) will be able to tell you more. I shall be at CUCPS next term, on 4th November, hopefully demonstrating the Tektronix 4052, if you're interested. Philip. From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 12 12:42:44 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF6175@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 12, 97 10:17:34 am Message-ID: <199708121742.KAA29132@fraser> I have quite a few old radios from the 1920s and 30s, and the market has recently been subjected to the same kind of wild increases, due to the entrance of speculators into the field. Speculators don't care about old radios, they just think that they can make a ton of money on them. Most of the hype and hoarding has been with bakelite radios from the late 40s and 50s, but the resultant high prices (easily with $1000 or $2000 minimum) have driven up the prices of the really nice old sets from the 20s and 30s too. This is especially visible in antique stores and second hand shops where even run of the mill wooden console and tabletop radios can be priced at $250-$300. Prior to this escalation, prices would be $50 or so for the same sets. For those collectors like myself who simply like old radios for their own sake, and for their historic and aesthetic appeal, these unbelievable prices have made acquisition of old sets much more difficult. I am relatively new to old computers (although I've been into computing since 1973) and it looks like the speculators are causing the same sort of trouble for those already in the field. I like old machines simply because they're neat; it's fun to have them and keep them running. It preserves a bit of history. What really bugs me about these people is that, as others have said, they have no interest in the machines other than their earning potential. This is sad as it does nothing to preserve the sense of history that goes along with old hardware and software. But on the positive side, I suppose, at least the machines are being saved from the crusher. Maybe they will reemerge into the market some day at a reasonable price. Let's hope that they don't sit for 20 years and then get scrapped. As well, all this interest in micros may tend to make old minis and such more affordable, or at least not drive up their prices too much. Those speculating seem to be interested only in "personal" machines. Computing, it seems, started with the Apple or the IBM PC. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 12 12:57:24 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D088D8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> > From: Kevin McQuiggin > Most of the hype and hoarding has been with bakelite radios from the > late > 40s and 50s > Occam's Razor says it's more likely that the baby boomers who owned or wanted to own such radios in the 40s and 50s are now of the age where they have a lot of nostalgia and a good deal of money to spend. That doesn't mean that speculators are driving up prices. Kai From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 12 14:44:04 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <199708121742.KAA29132@fraser> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Aug 12, 97 10:42:44 am Message-ID: <199708121944.PAA01373@hiway1.exit109.com> > > I have quite a few old radios from the 1920s and 30s, and the market has > recently been subjected to the same kind of wild increases, due to the > entrance of speculators into the field. Speculators don't care about old > radios, they just think that they can make a ton of money on them. > > Most of the hype and hoarding has been with bakelite radios from the late > 40s and 50s, but the > resultant high prices (easily with $1000 or $2000 minimum) have driven up > the prices of the really nice old sets from the 20s and 30s too. My understanding of the interest in bakelite sets is that it is similar to why there is more interest in micros rather than minis from a computer collector standpoint- space. An "all-american 5" bakelite set can sit on a shelf in a small apartment. Compare that with the floor spare required for a nice console or even a wooden table radio. Recent discussions aside, there is the same perception in the computer collecting field, that micro means small. (God bless those who have the space for multiple 19" racks. <<>> From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 15:40:51 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9708121614.AA10314@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Unfortunately, the high demand for common "trendy" machines (i.e. IMSAI's, > Altairs, whatever) often displaces the preservation of machines which > are much rarer, which are far more important historically, and which > present far greater difficulties to preserve, maintain, and use. Not as long as there are people like us to preserve the balance of systems. > For example, any average Joe could assemble a perfect IMSAI-lookalike > using still commercially available parts. The IMSAI chassis is certainly > the single most common S-100 box ever made. So why are IMSAI's regarded > as so valuable, while all the S-100 boards made by enterprising guys in their > garage in small quantities are undesirable? I really don't know. But I > do know that the guys making S-100 boards in their garages were the true movers > and shakers of leading technology for most of a decade. In time, if this hobby becomes another speculator's attraction, these boards will start to take on monetary value. As of now, the only real value would be to those who need these boards to make a working system. Other than that, most of us are just collecting them for the preservational value, ie. the value inherent in preserving any bit of history so that we may better understand our past when it is long forgotten. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 15:48:25 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF6175@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Do we have any evidence of outlandish prices actually being paid? > There are lots of newspaper articles referencing ridiculous amounts for > an Apple I like $10-$15K, but no facts to back them up. The only > documented sale in existence is the one at the 1996 Computer Bowl > charity auction for $22K, but that hardly counts. I won't say who :) but I know of someone who paid $1,400 for an Altair 8800. > Does anyone have any facts about Altairs or IMSAIs going for thousands? Shit, if someone knows someone who wants to pay a thousand or so for these then I have a mint in my garage. > While there seem to be quite a lot of "Altair / IMSAI Wanted" ads on > USENET, I've never actually communicated with anyone who was in this for > the speculation. Does anyone know someone who is? I would imagine these are the people who had one way back in the 70s and want to relieve their former glory... > My advice to anyone who actually wanted to speculate in old computers > would be to buy a ton of Apple IIe/IIc's and Commodore 64's - like a > warehouse full. They're common as dirt right now and go for garage sale > prices. When all of those people whose first computer was one of those > hit age 50 (in approximately 2015) they're going to have to buy one, and > you'd be in fat city :) ...just like the people Kai mentions above who will want to re-live the days of playing with their C64 or Apples. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dlw at neosoft.com Tue Aug 12 17:12:43 1997 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: (Fwd) HELP Message-ID: <199708122112.QAA29424@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> I received this today, can anyone here help him out? If so, send him an email. Thanks. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Bill Creager" To: Subject: HELP Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:44:50 -0400 Found your wanted ad for Cromemco's. I have a need for a programmer with a Crememco and the know how to program a EPROM chip for a Hand Held data terminal (MSI 85)..... any help or leads would be greatly appreciated. Bill Creager CREAGERB@ix.netcom.com ---------------------------------------------------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 16:48:44 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please References: Message-ID: <33F0DA3C.78BF23E6@rain.org> James Willing wrote: > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > saved from the unmentionable that happened to the PDP9, etc. For my > part, I > > would rather such computers were desireable enough that they are worth > more > > to a collector (cost wise) than salvage dealers; the marketplace will > > decide what they are really worth. And just to call a spade a spade, of > > > course I would rather acquire these machines for free! > > The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into > consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are throwing > these outlandish amounts of money around! > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > preserve both the machine and its history. I think that there will always be people around who don't have the "purest" motives for doing anything, and collecting computers is no exception. Antique dealers could be considered collectors only in it for the money, BUT without that force being present, a lot more collectibles would be in that great landfill in the sky. > Once the percieved value of a given item is (publically) driven up, either > > by speculators with too much money to spend or too many badly out of touch > > New York/L.A. Times articles, it can take a very long time for the prices > to return to reality (if they ever do). > > And once an item is in the hands of one of these money oriented types, it > may well languish in a vault(sic) until someone will pay the 'proper' > prices, or when the novelty has worn off the item may still end up in the > trash rather than being released for a more reasonable price. (don't > laugh, I regularly deal with a *lot* of these types!) > There has got to be a balance somewhere, I'm just not sure how to get > there. I think art would also fall in the catagory of how much is it *really* worth. Who was that guy a number of centurys ago, Michael something or other, who did some artsy things that many people consider worth a lot of money now? Do you think that his paintings, etc. would have stayed around if some significant value had not been placed on them? Another thing to think about is the opportunity that the speculators provide. I don't recall the number of museums spread around the world, but it is at least a dozen or two :). Right now, I am in the learning stages of finding out what it takes to run a museum and donations seem to be a biggie. If a non-profit status museum is available, I can't imagine any speculator trashing something instead of taking a tax rightoff. And yes, this type of stuff WILL make it harder for people to collect computers. HOWEVER, we are still at the stage where the perceived value of most older computers is not very high thus making it relatively easy for anyone who has the desire to get a fairly complete selection of computers relatively inexpensively. And since we seem to be some of the few concerned with the preservation of old computers and their history, that leaves us in a rather responsible position and I think the future will look back kindly at our efforts! > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? No, but I do have a couple I would sell for $500 US :)! From rcini at msn.com Tue Aug 12 18:11:47 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Update on Altair scans Message-ID: Hello, all: I got a message from my friend with the Altair scans (list previously posted here). On Monday, he mailed me a Zip disk filled with scans. It really makes me wonder if this guy has a job! Actually, he must work for a publishing house or something, somewhere where he has access to high-volume scanners. Anyway, when I get this, I'll put together a disk/tape and Fedex it to Bill Whitson {Bill: I need your physical address and telephone#} and have him post it to the ftp site. More to come... ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Aug 12 21:02:55 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Yeek! I 'Bruced' him!! Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970812190403.3127cd5a@mail.crl.com> At 06:53 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck >>going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce >>but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in Or perhaps being "Whit"led (it was Bill Whitson?) could mean willing to go to any length (including getting your car hit and breaking bones) in order to rescue classic computer stuff? 8^) Hope he gets well soon! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From danjo at xnet.com Tue Aug 12 22:00:57 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Yeek! I 'Bruced' him!! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970812190403.3127cd5a@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 06:53 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: > >>Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck > >>going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce > >>but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in > > Or perhaps being "Whit"led (it was Bill Whitson?) could mean willing to go > to any length (including getting your car hit and breaking bones) in order > to rescue classic computer stuff? 8^) > > Hope he gets well soon! I CAN'T HELP IT!!!! Or perhaps being "Whit"less 8-) I'M SORRY - Bill, Bruce - everyone. BC From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 22:26:28 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <33F0DA3C.78BF23E6@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > And yes, this type of stuff WILL make it harder for people to collect > computers. HOWEVER, we are still at the stage where the perceived value of > most older computers is not very high thus making it relatively easy for > anyone who has the desire to get a fairly complete selection of computers > relatively inexpensively. And since we seem to be some of the few concerned > with the preservation of old computers and their history, that leaves us in > a rather responsible position and I think the future will look back kindly > at our efforts! I think it is up to us to some extent to not give in to high prices demanded by people selling their old computers. As I've indicated in previous messages, I ALWAYS haggle a deal, no matter how mundane. In this way I serve two useful purposes: 1) I keep people from trying to command high prices for old computers, 2) I conserve my money so that I am able to buy up as many computers as possible. The other day I haggled over a quarter for god's sake! (Relative to the total cost of what I was buying it was 25%, but still, it was just a damn quarter! In the end somebody came along and gave the seller a quarter for me! Ok, call me cheap, but sometimes I just get caught up in the fever.) So anyway, ALWAYS negotiate with the seller. In the end, everyone wins, especially YOU! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Aug 13 00:50:31 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Unix on PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <33F1216E.7C4F3ABB@halcyon.com> from Dave Jenner at "Aug 12, 97 07:52:30 pm" Message-ID: <199708130550.PAA06873@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> I seem to have received an email which has bounced thru a few people. I'll try to give attributions where possible. Dave Jenner: > Is this the same SCO that is receiving the PDP-11 Unix petition? > Heaven help us! Unknown: > I saw a thing on SCO's webpage about submitting a success story to win a > prize. I decided it was time for some shameless plugging! > Look what I got in return... He almost gets the point... Daniel Seagraves: > > > >I have a PDP-11. I bet it would make for some > >pretty decent advertising if you'd give me the > >source to compile Unix on it... :) Jim Sullivan: > Well, since much of the early UNIX development was done on PDP11s, a version > of UNIX could possilbe be found for it, but it's probably very old and > out of date. Of note, my first job in the industry was with a company > called Human Computing Resources (later HCR, later merged with SCO). > HCR was one of the pioneers in the UNIX industry and was the provider of > UNIX ports and layered implementations of UNIX across many platforms, > including PDP11s. PDP11/Unity was one of our products. Of course, we > don't sell it anymore and haven't sold it for over a decade. The Answer ---------- The answer for Daniel Seagraves is to fill in the petition asking SCO to sell the source code for these old UNIXes. SCO does hold the legal rights to these old systems. We're hoping that they will be encouraged by the petition, and help people like Daniel out. The petition is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ and choose the top hyperlink. The petition has been formally presented to SCO, and we're waiting on an answer back from them. The signs seem good, though! Cheers, Warren From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 13 10:48:14 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > > preserve both the machine and its history. > > I think that there will always be people around who don't have the "purest" > motives for doing anything, and collecting computers is no exception. > Antique dealers could be considered collectors only in it for the money, BUT > without that force being present, a lot more collectibles would be in that > great landfill in the sky. Dig the mixed metaphor! Seriously though, there are two processes at work here. One is that those who grew up with such machines have got the nostalgia bug. This starts prices rising, which in turn attracts speculators. The latter fuel the second process - articles get published about how fast the market is growing, etc. One hopes that in a few years time, they will become unfashionable once again, and we will see a return to the situation when these machines first became unfashionable - they crop up at car boot sales, etc., for not much money. > Another thing to think about is the opportunity that the speculators > provide. I don't recall the number of museums spread around the world, but > it is at least a dozen or two :). Right now, I am in the learning stages of > finding out what it takes to run a museum and donations seem to be a > biggie. If a non-profit status museum is available, I can't imagine any > speculator trashing something instead of taking a tax rightoff. Do keep us posted! There are plenty of us on this list who dream of converting our private collections into musea when we retire - or before! - who would welcome any info on the subject. > And yes, this type of stuff WILL make it harder for people to collect > computers. HOWEVER, we are still at the stage where the perceived value of > most older computers is not very high thus making it relatively easy for > anyone who has the desire to get a fairly complete selection of computers > relatively inexpensively. And since we seem to be some of the few concerned > with the preservation of old computers and their history, that leaves us in > a rather responsible position and I think the future will look back kindly > at our efforts! And however much we dislike the price spirals that occur, we must remember that unless people know that collectors want these machines, they'll put them in the dustbin. That is one reason why, unlike Sam, I do not often haggle. If people know that the Philips G7000 videopac computer that they priced at four pounds at the car boot sale will get snapped up for that amount of money, and tell people at work etc., others will think twice about throwing out the PDP8 or whatever. If, however, they price it at L4 and can't even get that for it, they will think that computers are not collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It has an 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? No, but I'd rather pay $500 for an Osborne than see the last remaining one disinegrate between the teeth of a rubbish crusher like that PDP9. From kevan at motiv.co.uk Wed Aug 13 05:04:38 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (kevan@motiv.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 (was Re: Re[2]: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708131004.LAA26726@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Philip wrote: > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It has an > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox Odessey^2 Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few duplicates. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 13 11:20:12 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707138714.AA871496786@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It has an > > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox Odessey^2 > > Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few duplicates. Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing until I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't possess a television. [For those of you not in the UK, here one requires a licence to operate "Television Receiving Apparatus", which I think includes any TV with a UHF tuner, but not a monitor. The licence fee is (without looking up either the current fee or the exchange rate) about $120 a year, and I am not prepared to pay this. So I don't have a TV - and seldom miss it.] Philip. From kuefel at sky.net Wed Aug 13 07:49:39 1997 From: kuefel at sky.net (Mark W Kuefel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Sickness (was: A moment of silence, please) References: Message-ID: <33F1AD63.14BA@sky.net> James Willing wrote: > > (on a little lighter note...) > > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > > > ...the PDP-8/I I just acquired filled half of the rear of my > > minivan (the other half had an Interdata Model 4 in it) - a bit > > too large for the average yuppie. You've got to be pretty sick to > > collect things the size of refrigerators (yes, I know, I fit the bill). > > Well, if size is any indication then I'm well into the 'sickness' too! > (8/i, 8/e, 11/40, 11/70, 11/780, 11/750 among others) And quite happy to > be there! > sick, sick, sick, sick, sick... But wait! > The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into > consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are throwing > these outlandish amounts of money around! > even sicker... > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? > Not quite THAT sick... > I ALWAYS haggle a deal, no matter how mundane. In > this way I serve two useful purposes: 1) I keep people from trying to > command high prices for old computers, 2) I conserve my money so that I > am able to buy up as many computers as possible. The other day I haggled > over a quarter for god's sake! (Relative to the total cost of what I was > buying it was 25%, but still, it was just a damn quarter! In the end > somebody came along and gave the seller a quarter for me! Ok, call me > cheap, but sometimes I just get caught up in the fever.) > > So anyway, ALWAYS negotiate with the seller. In the end, everyone wins, > especially YOU! > > Sam You're a tough negotiator, Sam. I can see there's nothing to be gained butting heads with you except maybe a sore noggin. I'll go ahead and eat 25% (I've had worse things in my mouth). The TI's yours for $375. > In time, if this hobby becomes another speculator's attraction, these > boards will start to take on monetary value. As of now, the only real > value would be to those who need these boards to make a working system. > Other than that, most of us are just collecting them for the > preservational value, ie. the value inherent in preserving any bit of > history so that we may better understand our past when it is long forgotten. > > Sam delusional... No, I shouldn't say that as it would be unwise to spectulate on the motivations of a man known to fight a crowd of panhandlers and street drunks over a dropped quarter. Knowing how these things get exaggerated over the web, I discounted the rumors about you killing two of them in the process. (You didn't really, did you?) >James Willing observed: > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > preserve both the machine and its history. highly romanticized... May I look through your rose colored glasses for a spell? (assuming you have a sense of humor and lack a history of violence ;-) Gee I thought I was clear on my motivations for "collecting" all these ______________ (fill in the blank, start with "computers"). An obsessive/ compulsive hoarding neurosis with anal retentive overtones. "Can you believe anyone would acutally throw one of these (display nonfuctional, partially disassembled "treasure" to all) babies in the TRASH! Whoa! This must be my LUCKY DAY!" I like to think I've expanded on the mere "fixation" aspect with elaborate regressive fantasies to enhance my little trips down memory lane. "A Micro VAX? I "always" wanted a Micro VAX. And it's FREE? I want one. I want two. I GOTTA have it!. And I really do want one. God only knows what I would do with it. Must have read a few too many DEC sales promos on the overnights I spent camping out in the machine room with Field Service while they sacrificed chickens over the 2060. I knew I should have grabbed the 11/750 when my old boss offered it. Would have had PLENTY of room if my (ex)wife had the imaginination to see past "weird" and appreciate the bohemian uniqness and "style" exhibited by sleeping on a matress atop the system box and drive units! Yes, it's definitely a "toy" thing with me. Will one of you historians please note that in the record? And now for the POINT. I'll bet you didn't think I had one, did you? > Any such speculators are complete fools. Believe me, I've met > many of them! Most of them don't know a serial console from a > memory-mapped video display! > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) I think we can all agree that lamers like these don't DESERVE fine examples of classic computers as the historical value these units is just wasted on such cretans. They probably don't know how to play with the damn thing either. Though you may disagree with the morality involved, I hope you can see why I'm drawn to give myself up to a higher calling and become: Mark W Kuefel Classic Computer Thief for Hire Discrection Assured Discount Rates for Classic Computer List Members Like Robin Hood, takes from the lame, gives to the insane. > Of course, then there is Paul Pierce who can quite easily embarrass most > of us with a single piece of his collection (based on mass/volume) > > -jim Well, we'll see after I've had the chance to make a few midnight "visits" to a machine room or two ;-) Mark W Kuefel kuefel@sky.net and THE COLISEUM SLAVE (Netwrecker II) Anyone "ordering" minis or mainframes must select from a "display" site that has a loading dock and forklift available. (I've never seen a picture of Robin Hood wearing a hernia belt, have you?) From jim at sco.COM Wed Aug 13 07:46:18 1997 From: jim at sco.COM (Jim Sullivan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Unix on PDP-11 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970813083858.007cc480@sales.sco.com> Well, this just gets weirder and weirder. From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 13 14:42:41 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <009B8B7F.9DE62591.73@siva.bris.ac.uk> [G7000] > >Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing until >I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't >possess a television. Presumably if it has a UHF output it also has an internal modulator. Can't you just tap off composite video from the input to that? What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for example...) > >Philip. -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 13 15:04:56 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707138715.AA871510286@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Presumably if it has a UHF output it also has an internal modulator. Can't you > just tap off composite video from the input to that? It does indeed, and on a separate board, too! Someday I must get a decent TV standard monitor - probably the Barco I sold to my brother for use as a telly - but I ought to have a composite one as well (Barco is RGB, of course). At present the monitor I have requires Video + Composite Sync - or it can free-run and generate sync for a TV camera. > What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side > custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips Prestel > terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for example...) I can't remember offhand, except that there are quite a lot of them. I'll have another look tonight. There seem to be two large rectangular metal cans - one with its own PCB (probably the UHF modulator) and one on the motherbaord (VHF for US?) Philip. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 13 09:08:55 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Unix on PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <199708130550.PAA06873@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-ID: > The answer for Daniel Seagraves is to fill in the petition asking SCO to > sell the source code for these old UNIXes. SCO does hold the legal rights > to these old systems. We're hoping that they will be encouraged by the > petition, and help people like Daniel out. > Done and done. I did that a month ago. :) From Eros at mail.dec.com Wed Aug 13 09:32:14 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: High up on the list of wants for my collection is an IBM 5100. I passed on one several years ago at a Goodwill (arrrgh!), but I'd sure like to track one down now. Any ideas? -- Tony Eros proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer Collection From marvin at rain.org Wed Aug 13 10:22:05 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please References: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <33F1D11D.89D0E490@rain.org> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > Another thing to think about is the opportunity that the speculators > > provide. I don't recall the number of museums spread around the world, > but > > it is at least a dozen or two :). Right now, I am in the learning > stages of > > finding out what it takes to run a museum and donations seem to be a > > biggie. If a non-profit status museum is available, I can't imagine any > > > speculator trashing something instead of taking a tax rightoff. > > Do keep us posted! There are plenty of us on this list who dream of > converting our private collections into musea when we retire - or > before! - who would welcome any info on the subject. Over the past couple of months since I found out about this listserver, I have been talking to a number of people about the feasibility of opening a computer museum here in Santa Barbara. Lots of reasons: 1) I live here :), 2) quite a bit of technology has been developed here primarily due to the university, Raytheon, Delco Electronics, and Santa Barbara Research Center, 3) there are a number of people here with money that might well be willing to help fund such a venture, and 4) quite a bit of early microcomputer stuff took place here and most of the people are still around. We had a meeting of the Classic Computer Club last night (*small* turnout - only four people) and discussed some of this. One of the guys is a hardware wiz who is *really* familar with the Kapro computers, another guy was an early Kaypro dealer here in town, and the other guy actually worked on the Illiac II computer at (I think) the University of Illinois and still has some of the documentation. Now that there is a concensus that we will do it, I will be checking today to see if we can get space donated at the September computer show here in Santa Barbara. Gotta build awareness! Apparently we will also be giving a program to the local PC Users Group (100 people or so at the meetings) on the Classic Computers. I also *really* like the effort Sam and others are putting into the Vintage Computer Faire since it will also build awareness. Another thing that seems to be helping to build awareness are the web page museums that people like Jim, Carl, Kevan and a host of others have where they display information and pictures of these older computers. I have a list of 50+ web pages dealing with the older "obsolete" computers and I have seen another 50 or so. > And however much we dislike the price spirals that occur, we must > remember that unless people know that collectors want these machines, > they'll put them in the dustbin. So true! From william at ans.net Wed Aug 13 10:43:33 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708131543.AA07273@interlock.ans.net> > No, but I'd rather pay $500 for an Osborne than see the last remaining > one disinegrate between the teeth of a rubbish crusher like that PDP9. By the way, that was TWO PDP-9s that died recently. One of these day I ought to report something *good*. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at crl.com Wed Aug 13 10:38:31 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Sickness (was: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <33F1AD63.14BA@sky.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Mark W Kuefel wrote: > May I look through your rose colored glasses for a spell? (assuming you > have a sense of humor and lack a history of violence ;-) > Gee I thought I was clear on my motivations for "collecting" all these > ______________ (fill in the blank, start with "computers"). An > obsessive/ > compulsive hoarding neurosis with anal retentive overtones. "Can you > believe anyone would acutally throw one of these (display nonfuctional, > partially disassembled "treasure" to all) babies in the TRASH! Whoa! > This must be my LUCKY DAY!" I like to think I've expanded on the mere > "fixation" aspect with elaborate regressive fantasies to enhance my > little > trips down memory lane. "A Micro VAX? I "always" wanted a Micro VAX. > And it's FREE? I want one. I want two. I GOTTA have it!. > And I really do want one. God only knows what I would do with it. > Must have read a few too many DEC sales promos on the overnights I spent > camping out in the machine room with Field Service while they sacrificed > chickens over the 2060. I knew I should have grabbed the 11/750 when my > old boss offered it. Would have had PLENTY of room if my (ex)wife > had the imaginination to see past "weird" and appreciate the bohemian > uniqness and "style" exhibited by sleeping on a matress atop the system > box and drive units! > > Yes, it's definitely a "toy" thing with me. Will one of you historians > please note that in the record? I think you hit this squarely on the head, with a sledgehammer no doubt. Ok, I admit, there is no rhyme or reason to this, no grand scheme of preservation. I just want these old systems. I just assign noble reasons to mask my insanity. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Aug 13 11:16:58 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Atari 850 Interface Message-ID: <199708131613.LAA25414@challenge.sunflower.com> Welp! I finally got one. Case got a little damaged in shipping,but it looks like it will still work. Is there anyone out there that still uses the 8bit Atari's that can send me a copy of a Term program on an Atari 8bit format disk so I can start downloading stuff to my 8bit atari's? From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 13 11:27:11 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: PDP-9 and 7 (DEC 18 bit machines....) Message-ID: <199708131627.AA29854@world.std.com> Despite have seen a few and being even an EX-digit I've never played with the PDP-9. Is any there that can describe the archecture and instruction set? Mostly curiosity here. Allison From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Aug 13 11:37:22 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: PDP-9 and 7 (DEC 18 bit machines....) Message-ID: <199708131637.AA04689@maddog.swec.com> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:27:11 -0400, allisonp@world.std.com mentioned: > Despite have seen a few and being even an EX-digit I've never played > with the PDP-9. Is any there that can describe the archecture and > instruction set? Mostly curiosity here. I think I've got a processor handbook for the -9 at home; it's either that or the -15 (which was an up-rated successor to the -9). I'll dig it out and post a few bits when I get home. (If I'm sober enough. ) I seem to remember my first impression was "bizarre machine"... ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Aug 13 11:44:39 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970813094547.4f5ff278@mail.crl.com> At 09:14 AM 8/12/97 -0800, you wrote: >Unfortunately, the high demand for common "trendy" machines (i.e. IMSAI's, >Altairs, whatever) often displaces the preservation of machines which >are much rarer, which are far more important historically, and which >present far greater difficulties to preserve, maintain, and use. Keep in mind that Value <> importance/significance/etc. Value represents a combination of many variables, including visibility, size, trendiness, etc. There are plenty of relatively valueless items running around the world that are incredibly significant, while a whole lot of insignificant things command high prices on the open market. If I wanted to invest in classic computers, it would be IMSAI's, Osbornes, and Apple I's. But I want to collect them, so I've got an Epson, an NEC, a m100, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Aug 13 11:44:44 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970813094550.493f1914@mail.crl.com> At 10:17 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >buy a ton of Apple IIe/IIc's and Commodore 64's - like a warehouse full. [...] >hit age 50 (in approximately 2015) they're going to have to buy one, and At which point you would be deeper in debt than the US Gov. from all the storage costs... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 13 18:26:35 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <009B8B9E.E53C419B.395@siva.bris.ac.uk> >> Presumably if it has a UHF output it also has an internal modulator. Can't you >> just tap off composite video from the input to that? > >It does indeed, and on a separate board, too! Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore. > >Someday I must get a decent TV standard monitor - probably the Barco I >sold to my brother for use as a telly - but I ought to have a composite Err... You do not use a Barco monitor as a TV. It's far too nice for that. I happen to have one, you see. >one as well (Barco is RGB, of course). At present the monitor I have Not of course. There were Barco's with built-in PAL, SECAM or NTSC decoders acording to the user manual for mine. (Barco User manual = 1/2 page explaining the controls and about 40 pages telling you how to set it up, schematics, waveforms, test points, etc). >requires Video + Composite Sync - or it can free-run and generate sync >for a TV camera. > >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips Prestel >> terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for example...) > >I can't remember offhand, except that there are quite a lot of them. >I'll have another look tonight. Please e-mail me a list when you get a chance and I'll see what I can find out about them. > >There seem to be two large rectangular metal cans - one with its own PCB >(probably the UHF modulator) and one on the motherbaord (VHF for US?) Possible VHF for europe. There are 625 line transmissions on Bands 1 and 3 according to some info I have. > >Philip. -tony From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 13 13:07:28 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 Message-ID: <33f1f76b.156712163@smtp.ix.netcom.com> I met someone who had worked on the Olivetti M20 many years ago and could possibly still get a hold of some of these. The M20 is a Z8001 based machine with bitmapped graphics and can run PCOS (its own OS) or CP/M 8000 Is anyone else interested? Ben From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Wed Aug 13 15:27:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Atari 850 Interface Message-ID: I may have one. Can you be more specific, as to which term program you need? Mike ---------- From: Bill Girnius To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Atari 850 Interface Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 12:16PM Welp! I finally got one. Case got a little damaged in shipping,but it looks like it will still work. Is there anyone out there that still uses the 8bit Atari's that can send me a copy of a Term program on an Atari 8bit format disk so I can start downloading stuff to my 8bit atari's? From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Aug 13 15:44:38 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Atari 850 Interface Message-ID: <199708132041.PAA23154@challenge.sunflower.com> Anything that will do downloads with Zmodem, Ymodem or Xmodem I just need a start. I think the most popular is called BOBTERM ---------- > From: Faiaz, Michael C. HSD > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Atari 850 Interface > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 3:27 PM > > I may have one. Can you be more specific, as to which term program you > need? > Mike > > ---------- > From: Bill Girnius > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Atari 850 Interface > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 12:16PM > > > Welp! I finally got one. Case got a little damaged in shipping,but it > looks > like it will still work. Is there anyone out there that still uses the > 8bit Atari's that can send me a copy of a Term program on an Atari 8bit > format disk so I can start downloading stuff to my 8bit atari's? From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Aug 13 16:32:09 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D4ACCF@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I. Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for another couple of weeks. I am aware of a gentleman who may be willing to part with a 5110 + dual 8" external drives + printer, but he wants a "very generous offer" for it and the shipping alone would be a killer since the total weight is about 200 lbs (he's in PA). BTW, do you have a web page for your collection? Kai > ---------- > From: Anthony Eros > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 7:32 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: IBM 5100 > > High up on the list of wants for my collection is an IBM 5100. I > passed on > one several years ago at a Goodwill (arrrgh!), but I'd sure like to > track one > down now. > > Any ideas? > > -- Tony Eros > proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer > Collection > From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 13 20:00:52 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8? Message-ID: <199708140100.AA25698@world.std.com> Just a test of the *Broadcast* facility. Trying to put up a Calendar and Scheduling program on the web site 8-) -------------------------------------------------- Performed by Auto-Remind : another fine product of The Software Forge and danjo@xnet.com -------------------------------------------------- From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 13 23:40:01 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <199708140100.AA25698@world.std.com> References: <199708140100.AA25698@world.std.com> Message-ID: <33f28b9a.279710@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:00:52 -0400, Allison wrote: % % This announcement is aimed to inform the members of the classiccmp community of the plans for the upcoming Vintage Computer Festival and is not intended for general distribution. Vintage Computer Festival The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is an event held to celebrate computers and their history. Due to the incredible pace of computing technology, computers at least ten years and older are the main focus of this event. Meet other collectors to trade tips, stories and even computers, hear talks by notable computer industry figures, attend workshops geared towards the vintage computer collector, visit the on-site interactive vintage computer museum. Two days of celebrating the science and technology of our diverse computer heritage! Event Highlights Vintage Pioneer (Featured Speaker) TBA - Candidates include Steve Wozniak (Inventor and co-founder of Apple Computer), Lee Felsenstein (Inventor of the SOL-20 Computer), Chris Espinosa (Legendary Programmer, Apple Computer). Guest Speakers TBA - Candidates include Jodelle French (Curator, Intel Museum), Robert X. Cringely (Author of _Accidental Empires_, Producer of _Triumph of the Nerds_ as seen on PBS), Steven Levy (Author of _Hackers_), Paul Fridell (Designer of IBM 5120), Kip Crosby (President of Computer History Association of California) Vintage Computer Spotlight Each year a classic computer is chosen to be featured in the Vintage Computer Spotlight. This year, being the 20th anniversary of the Apple ][, what else but the Apple ][ will be featured. What's more, each year's Vintage Computer Spotlight subject will be the grand-prize of the end-of-show drawing. All attendees will be automatically entered to win this year's Spotlight computer, an original Apple ][ with Integer BASIC ROMS! Workshops A panel of vintage computer collectors will give talks on topics relating to the hobby of classic computer collecting. Discussions will include: Restoration and preservation of old computers - external and internal cleaning tips and techniques; basic electronic repair tips; storage procedures for the long haul Software preservation with a focus on storage tips and techniques for the long haul Computer Collecting 101 - basic computing skills including operation, disk formats, serial communcations basics, how to recognize computers and their peripherals Vintage Computer Museum A hands-on, interactive museum featuring many examples of classic computing machinery through the years. The exhibit is composed of artifacts on loan from the collections of organizations and individuals, and will span the course of decades from the 1950s to the 1980s. Vending A swap-meet style vending area where attendees can shop for old, in some cases antique computers, peripherals, documentation and software. No IBM clones here, just good old classic computers. Where and When TBA - Tentative dates: October 18-19, 1997 Venue TBA - Tri-Valley Area, East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area) Admission - TBD Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Aug 14 08:53:04 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 Message-ID: <9707148715.AA871574367@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I met someone who had worked on the Olivetti M20 many years ago and > could possibly still get a hold of some of these. > > The M20 is a Z8001 based machine with bitmapped graphics and can run > PCOS (its own OS) or CP/M 8000 > > Is anyone else interested? Which side of the Atlantic is it on? Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Aug 14 09:01:55 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707148715.AA871574908@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore. Inside the modulator can, I fear. I had another look inside last night. The two metal cans appear to be video circuitry (on motherboard) and modulator (separate). They are linked by a 4-way ribbon cable of which one conductor is ground. I suspect the remaining three of being video, line sync and frame sync. (They could, I suppose, be composite mono, U and V but I doubt it) > >Someday I must get a decent TV standard monitor - probably the Barco I > >sold to my brother for use as a telly - but I ought to have a composite > > Err... You do not use a Barco monitor as a TV. It's far too nice for that. I > happen to have one, you see. Au contraire, the Barco is one of the few pieces of kit I _would_ consider using as a telly (the other being my Bush TV24 of course). > Not of course. There were Barco's with built-in PAL, SECAM or NTSC decoders OK, you win. > >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side > >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips > >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for > >> example...) Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I can't read the numbers of the chips inside the video can unless I desolder said can from PCB. Philip. From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Aug 14 06:20:33 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8 Message-ID: <33F2EA01.C79E670F@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> bluesky6@ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) wrote : > There is or was a prentice hall book on logic design that described > the design of a PDP-8 workalike. I bought the book and told myself > that one day, I'll build a PDP-8 with EPLDs. Like Allison, I ended up > with 16 bits and then other things got in the way... > The book is called top-down logic design or something like that. The Art of Digital Design, an introduction to top-down design by Franklin P. Prosser and David E. Winkel Prentice-Hall 1987 ISBN 0-13-046673-5 025 I have a copy and can highly recommend it. It has a two complete design descriptions of a PDP-8 CPU, one a state machine implementation the other a microprogrammed one. Talking of 16 bit extensions to the PDP-8, that is what the HP-2116A appears to be, anyone konw that processor? Regards, Hans B Pufal From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Thu Aug 14 15:42:40 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <009B8C51.2990815A.32@siva.bris.ac.uk> > Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore. > >Inside the modulator can, I fear. > >I had another look inside last night. The two metal cans appear to be >video circuitry (on motherboard) and modulator (separate). They are >linked by a 4-way ribbon cable of which one conductor is ground. I >suspect the remaining three of being video, line sync and frame sync. >(They could, I suppose, be composite mono, U and V but I doubt it) Assuming that there are no other connections to the 'Modulator' then one of those wires has to be a power rail. I'd guess (without seeing the device or the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and (PAL-encoded) chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it feeds audio through to the TV. >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for >> >> example...) >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I What the heck are those? >can't read the numbers of the chips inside the video can unless I >desolder said can from PCB. Well, that's what I'd have done by now... > >Philip. -tony From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Aug 14 09:49:40 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970814075108.53bf66ec@ricochet.net> At 08:26 PM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >The other day I haggled over a quarter for god's sake! Last weekend at a garage sale, a guy wanted to sell me three things (kiddie cars) for a quarter. I gave him $.50. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Aug 14 10:19:26 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8 In-Reply-To: Hans Pufal's message of Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:20:33 +0200 References: <33F2EA01.C79E670F@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: <199708141519.IAA03753@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Hans Pufal writes: > The Art of Digital Design, an introduction to top-down design > by Franklin P. Prosser and David E. Winkel > Prentice-Hall 1987 ISBN 0-13-046673-5 025 Thanks. Maybe this was a popular thing to do in the mid-1980s? The undergraduate computer architecture course (1983 I think, maybe 1984) I took basically went from gates to a PDP-8-like CPU over the course of the semester. Somewhere at the beginning I think we spent a half-hour on the fact that there are different logic families, but we never touched on that again. (This was a Computer Science course, Real Hardware seemed to be the province of the Electrical Engineering department.) > Talking of 16 bit extensions to the PDP-8, that is what the HP-2116A > appears to be, anyone konw that processor? By manuals only I'm afraid, and I spent more time fascinated by the possibilities of user-developed microcode in the 2100A. The 2116A is entirely hardwired, with two accumulators, 16-bit word, 32KW memory I think. Oh, and stable across the same environmental conditions as other HP instrumentation. I suggest you webulate over to www.chac.org and look for the plain-text versions of Engine 2.3 and 2.4. You want to read the interviews with Barney Oliver and Joe Schoendorf in those issues. -Frank McConnell From idavis at comland.com Thu Aug 14 11:00:52 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:33 2005 Subject: Can we help this guy out? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970814160052.008f6bcc@mail.comland.com> I was sent this email and I figured who better to help this guy out, than our little group. =================================================== Return-Path: MajorLeague@getthe.net Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:54:10 -0600 From: Major97 Reply-To: majorleague@getthe.net To: idavis@comland.com Subject: Do those disk drives work? Your disk drives mentioned in your rescue page, you have listed apple II drives. Would you be willing to part with a couple of them? I would like to know how much you would want etc. if you sold. I would pay shipping. I have an apple knockoff (I think it is a pear) I really don't know what it is but it came with apple IIe stuff. My drives are hatched. Thanks Steve =================================================== I also encouraged him to join the list. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis@comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html From eric at fudge.uchicago.edu Thu Aug 14 13:19:01 1997 From: eric at fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970810232317.0093e240@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.32.19970810232317.0093e240@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <199708141819.NAA27519@fudge.uchicago.edu> Roger Merchberger said, > >i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, > >and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. ... > > If it's a sub-miniature DB-15, then that sounds like a PC VGA plug-in. If > it's a normal-sized DB-15, then that sounds like it's a direct-connect for > a later-model Smackintosh. (I say this jokingly, I have one...) Actually, no, it won't work with a Mac, even though the connector type is the same. This is an AppleColor 100 (for a IIe), which is digital RGB, not the analog type that Macintoshes (and VGA displays) expect. The IIgs RGB monitor also uses a 15-pin connector, but it's not compatible with either the IIe or the Mac monitors. eric From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 14 14:33:48 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970814075108.53bf66ec@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 14, 97 09:49:40 am Message-ID: <9708141833.AA15654@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970814/3f1430de/attachment.ksh From Eros at mail.dec.com Thu Aug 14 15:08:11 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: ---------- From: Kai Kaltenbach[SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 5:32 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: IBM 5100 > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I. > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for > another couple of weeks. Sheesh! It's all a matter of timing, I suppose. Aside from the system I didn't buy several years ago, I spoke with a town manager in upstate NY who had trashed two 5100s after posting a "for sale" message on a web page and had received no responses. > I am aware of a gentleman who may be willing to part with a 5110 + dual > 8" external drives + printer, but he wants a "very generous offer" for > it and the shipping alone would be a killer since the total weight is > about 200 lbs (he's in PA). Pennsylvania's not a problem -- I'm in Delaware and could certainly pick it up. What's the difference between the 5100 and the 5110? > BTW, do you have a web page for your collection? Not yet, but it's on my list of things to do... -- Tony Eros Proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer Collection From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 14 19:07:54 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Anthony Eros wrote: > > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I. > > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly > > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen > > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also > > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for > > another couple of weeks. I have to question this "rarer than almost anything escept for an Apple I" as I have seen two 5100 in varying states in the last few months. I've seen even less of more obscure computers. In my estimation, 5100's aren't the hardest things to find. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 14 19:04:59 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9708141833.AA15654@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > I would tend to agree with Roger. Deal with people fairly and they'll > respect you and your hobby. If you start haggling over every tiny little > thing they'll just throw it away instead of calling you next time... I disagree. Nobody is going to say "Gee, I'd really like to take all this old junk and sell it at a swap meet but those darn hagglers just make it such a chore!!!" It's part of the whole swap meet experience. The fact is, I do treat people fairly. I'm paying them what I feel it is worth, and as we all know, that is what a "fair price" is. They certainly don't have to sell it to me for what I ask, and in fact that has happened on several occasions. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 14 16:07:46 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: References: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: <199708150040.UAA13542@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:40:20 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Sam Ismail > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: A moment of silence, please > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > > 7090 of some sort. > > > > Of course I wretched. The loss of the PDP-8s is bad (I do not know > > specific model numbers), but the others are a real shame. Known PDP-9s > > number in the _low_ single digits, the 7090 perhaps less, but old > > Burroughs equipment is probably extinct. > > > > In any case, this shows that the stuff was not _all_ scrapped years ago. > > This shows the need to get the word out to people that you collect old > computers. You never know who's going to say "Oh really? My dad has > this old mainframe in his garage that he's throwing out next week." Once > word gets out that you collect old computers, people will be coming to > you. It gets in their head and they start to find the opportunities for > you through casual contacts with friends and relatives. This has > happened to me on a few occassions; people I have explained my hobby to > have come back to me saying they saw System X or heard of someone wanting > to get rid of System Y. > > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass This newsgroup is a real savior. I was beginning to think my friends and relatives references to my "lunacy" might be justified. But NOW I realize that I'm not the only obsolete computer nutcase. Kind of gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling all over. I must, however, admit to a transgression of which I am still in deep denial. In a pique of " I have to make some room in this bloody 1 bedroom apt." I threw out a bunch of mono monitors as well as a working LANPAR terminal. From the guys that Lotus reputedly stole their system from. Lotus won the court case because of some technicalities in LANPAR's copyright application. I only shudder to think that it might have been the last one in existence. ciao larry From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 14 19:54:14 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D9A313@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Yeesh, if you run into any, I'll trade you for them! I have several friends looking for them. I know of only two collectors besides myself who have 5100's. In contrast, there are about 15 Altairs represented on this mailing list. I do know of an Apple I that's for sale... anybody got $10,000 burning a hole in their pocket? Yeesh. Kai > ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 5:07 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: IBM 5100 > > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Anthony Eros wrote: > > > > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an > Apple I. > > > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly > > > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever > seen > > > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He > also > > > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on > for > > > another couple of weeks. > > I have to question this "rarer than almost anything escept for an > Apple > I" as I have seen two 5100 in varying states in the last few months. > I've seen even less of more obscure computers. In my estimation, > 5100's > aren't the hardest things to find. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, > Writer, Jackass > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 14 22:00:06 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 14, 97 05:04:59 pm Message-ID: <9708150200.AA16924@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970814/eeaf6fe1/attachment.ksh From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 14 21:05:50 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9708150200.AA16924@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Oh - you never mentioned it was rather "common" consumer stuff at a > flea market. My comments were more oriented towards dealing with Yes. > scrap dealers who have 1800-pound minis which will get junked unless > I go out of my way to make it both convenient and pleasant to sell them > to me. Believe me, most of these scrap dealers will melt a PDP-9 > down in an instant. By being excrutiatingly compliant with their > particular needs, I can often get access to complete systems, before > they begin hacking away at bus cables, ripping apart custom backplanes, > and pulling the PC boards to be melted down for gold. If I haggled for > just an instant, that PDP-9 would go on its way to the crusher. I'm talking > about building up long-term relationships and preserving classic machines - > not about saving a buck (or a quarter)! I totally agree. And again, I was referring mainly to swap meets. You don't generally build long term relationships at swap meets. The scrap dealers are a much different story. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com Thu Aug 14 21:45:46 1997 From: MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <802B50C269DECF11B6A200A0242979EF28C7B6@consulting.ensemble.net> A Composite video conversion is pretty easy; I converted a G7400 over in about 5 minutes. > -----Original Message----- > From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > [SMTP:Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 6:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Philips G7000 > > > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It > has an > > > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > > > > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox > Odessey^2 > > > > Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few > duplicates. > > Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing > until > I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't > possess a television. > > [For those of you not in the UK, here one requires a licence to > operate > "Television Receiving Apparatus", which I think includes any TV with a > > UHF tuner, but not a monitor. The licence fee is (without looking up > either the current fee or the exchange rate) about $120 a year, and I > am > not prepared to pay this. So I don't have a TV - and seldom miss it.] > > Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 15 08:57:11 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707158716.AA871661134@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Assuming that there are no other connections to the 'Modulator' then one of > those wires has to be a power rail. I'd guess (without seeing the device or Oops! The connection to the PSU is another ground, so I guess you must be right. > the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and (PAL-encoded) > chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it feeds audio > through to the TV. If one is not composite video, where is the sync encoded? On Y (i.e. making it composite mono)? I suppose this could just possibly be video + composite sync - just what I need. > >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side > >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips > >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for > >> >> example...) > > >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I > > What the heck are those? 8245 is a Nat Semi keyboard controller. This chip says Intel on it, but I was assuming, probably very rashly, that it was the same thing. 6110 is a typo for 6810 :-), in fact Motorola MCM6810, a RAM chip. Looking it up last night I discovered that it is in fact 128 by 8 (yes, 128 bytes!) so I cannot think what it is used for! (It is too slow to be a video output buffer) Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 15 09:00:21 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707158716.AA871661315@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > A Composite video conversion is pretty easy; I converted a G7400 over in > about 5 minutes. Could I have some details, please? Is composite Video easy to find in the circuit, or do I have to reverse engineer or poke around with a scope? Philip. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 15 05:59:30 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) In-Reply-To: <199708072127.QAA24392@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 starling@umr.edu wrote: > > OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by > > Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or > > complete the missing data. > > Missing Atari Computer: > Atari ATW Transputer -- They only made like 5,000 of these and I WANT ONE!!!! The document you mention below says that "only 350 machines were made (50 prototypes and 300 production machines or, according to documents from Atari, 100 prototypes and 250 production machines)." [Translation my own and may be inexact.] Definitely a rare beast! > Now that I have my Lisa, this is my next Holy Grail. It was Atari's > stab at the unix workstation market. It was a multiprocessor setup > that had a 68000 as some sort of main brain and then you plugged in > modules that had Transputer T800 processors on them, max 12. It ran > some nifty OS called Helios and had semi-ok graphics capabilities. This sounds very much like Commodore's ill-fated transputer project. It also ran an OS called Helios, and used T800 processors. There's an article on Commodore's transputer project in AmigoTimes V1.2. AmigoTimes never liked putting dates on their magazines (dammit) but it's probably from the around same time-frame as the Atari machine. There is a 1988 date mentioned in the article, and on the transputer board in the picture. Actually, the web article you directed us to states about the Atari machine that "it was first presented in November 1987 at COMDEX in Las Vegas under the name ABAQ", so it looks like the Atari machine was earlier. I've seen someone on Usenet say that they have some Commodore transputer boards, and I think he said that the project was cancelled after problems with the person or people who were writing the Helios operating system or something. Also the T-800 chips were never cheap enough to use in products for the kinds of markets Atari and Commodore generally looked for. I don't know how long ago it was that I saw that - it could still be on Deja News. A few quotes from the AmigoTimes article, "The Amiga Supercomputer" by Ernest N. Nagy: . . . "The operating system that will control the transputer chips, is called HELIOS. HELIOS is being written in 'C' by Perry Helion, specifically for use with the transputer and should be available by the fall of 1988." . . . "To comply with existing Amiga graphics standards, Xwindows will be used as the graphics interface. The Xwindow environment will be running through a shell command interpreter very similar to the UNIX shell." . . . "The advantage of a transputer outweighs its disadvantages. Each transputer has local RAM, the T-800 has an onboard floating point processor working at 1.2 MFlops and each chip (T-800) is rated at 10 mips. Each transputer communicates on an independent hardware level via four inter-processor communication links. Because transputers are self-contained and work in parallel, they have no bus bandwidth limitations, therefore 'n' transputers means 'n' times the performance. Unlike conventional CPUs linked together, transputers have linear growth potential. Each Amiga can be further expanded by up to four independent multitransputer cards. Each multitransputer card will contain four transputers (either the TMS414 or TMS800) with up to 4MB of on-board memory. These multitransputer cards will fit into the AT slot and an Amiga 2000 will be capable of supporting up to 17 transputers; providing a total of 170 mips in processing speed and 20 MFlops. The AT slots just provide the power to the board. An Amiga with a root transputer and one transputer board forms a parallel pipe configuration and two or more transputer boards allows two-dimensional movement capabilities from chip to chip. If 17 transputers is not enough power, then workstation superclusters can be implemented for very high performance application needs. To allow for full speed server code transfers, the workstation must be able to transfer data to and from the transputer in DMA mode. This will require a new device driver in the Amiga OS which will be optimized for HELIOS type data transfers. Presently link techniques are being developed that will allow data transfers between stations, at a rate of 20Mbit/s. There is a theoretical limit to the amount of transputers that can be controlled by HELIOS; it stands untested at about 30 workstations (or 500 transputers), but it may be more." . . . Then the article goes on to an interview with Dieter Priess, General Manager of Engineering at Braunschweig: . . . "AMIGOTIMES: We have heard about transputers before, but never with regards to the Amiga. The first we really heard of it, after INMOS brought it out, was after Jack Tramiel (Atari) announced that he is going to bring out a transputer based computer to compete with the success of the Amiga. When we got wind about a possible Amiga transputer expansion board, it was great news. PREISS: He is using the same operating system (HELIOS) as we are, so nobody is actually ahead of the timeframe, or behind. Except that we have some more plans with HELIOS than I have seen in his announcement at the moment. His machine has a closed architecture, and I think it contains 12 transputers. He thinks this is the kind of workstation that the future may need. We've found that limiting a computer to a given number of transputers is a violation of the transputer concept itself. Our policy has been, in the past, to keep machines as flexible and as open as possible. I really think this concept has to be applied to each expansion that we create for the Amiga. So both HELIOS, as well as the hardware, have to be open enough to support everything that is required by the demand of the user and not by our offer. AMIGOTIMES: Will the transputer board contain four transputers on the main board? PREISS: No, there are four transputers on the expansion boards that go into the PC slots; since we want to keep the Amiga slots free. The PC slots just supply the power for those boards, they do not use any bus signals. This means if you have four free PC slots in the system, you can add up to four expansion boards (16 transputers). Combined with the root transputer board in the Amiga slot, you end up with a total of 17 transputers." . . . "We personally saw the transputer root board working, so it's not 'vaporware', but HELIOS is not ready yet and until it is, the transputer board will continue to be improved. The entire system should be ready by the fall and hopefully be ready for commercial sale just before the Christmas shopping rush (the first week of December)." . . . It's a big article, and it's got a photo of the root board, and on it can be read the text: TRANSPUTER BOARD A2000 MADE IN W. GERMANY (BSW) (C)1988 COMMODORE Anyway, that's enough typing for tonight on such a vapourous (and not even quite classic) subject. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From groberts at mitre.org Fri Aug 15 07:05:31 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Mark 8 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970815080531.007ceae0@mail90> From: Tom 4:22 Subject: Mark-8 for sale FYI, from comp.os.cpm: >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. >Serious collectors only. >Tom Smith >tomxs@hotmail.com From rcini at msn.com Fri Aug 15 08:19:55 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get? Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, I finally heard from that guy at Temple University (Philly, PA) about the truckloads of PDP equipment. I'm going down there next Friday to get some stuff. I asked this question before, but didn't get a complete answer, so here it goes again... "If you were able to get your pick of PDP-11 equipment (like 11/34s) and accessories, what would you get?" This is my first PDP acquisition, so I don't know what to look for (and I don't have a truck, so I can't just haul it all!). I don't even know how big this stuff is, but I'd like to try to get a "complete" (whatever that is) PDP system, but a rack-mount style, which is easier for me to transport. From what I understand, the Temple computer department has truckloads of this equipment, from all types of hardware to software and manuals. I'm looking for an expert's recommendation as to what to shop for. Thanks for the input! ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 15 09:13:45 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970815080531.007ceae0@mail90> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > From: > Tom > Subject: > Mark-8 for sale > FYI, from comp.os.cpm: > >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. > >Serious collectors only. > >Tom Smith Based on the junk email I get through hotmail.com (it outnumbers what I get from this mailing list, a non-trivial amount), I wouldn't trust a posting from there if it told me I was alive. My assumption is that "serious collectors only" means "I want a truckload of money" not "I want this thing to go to someone who cares". -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 15 09:56:19 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > > From: > > Tom > > Subject: > > Mark-8 for sale > > FYI, from comp.os.cpm: > > >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. > > >Serious collectors only. > > >Tom Smith > > Based on the junk email I get through hotmail.com (it outnumbers what I > get from this mailing list, a non-trivial amount), I wouldn't trust a > posting from there if it told me I was alive. My assumption is that Actually, hotmail.com has normal users along with its obnoxious spammers. I communicate with people at hotmail.com all the time. > "serious collectors only" means "I want a truckload of money" not "I want > this thing to go to someone who cares". I'm sure the guy has dollar signs emanating from every pore of his body. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 15 11:33:57 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: from "Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers" at Aug 15, 97 10:13:45 am Message-ID: <9708151533.AA17444@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970815/28a3927a/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 15 11:39:28 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: <9708151533.AA17444@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 15, 97 08:33:57 am Message-ID: <9708151539.AA17413@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 676 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970815/ebaa8d6d/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Fri Aug 15 07:24:14 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: HP 9831A Message-ID: <199708151610.JAA28337@mx4.u.washington.edu> Dug up an HP 9831A...single-line, dot matrix display, full keyboard desktop unit (abt the size of a typewriter). Looks fairly old. Seems to be a full computer (not a programmable calculator, which they also made a lot of), as it wakes up in a BASIC mode. I get a lot of error messages --probably due to improper commands. It will accept and run a simple program. Anyone want it? manney@nwohio.com From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 15 11:21:38 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33f48157.85478536@smtp.ix.netcom.com> I have actually seen the Atari Transputer machine at a show in Paris. If memory serves, one of the demos they had was the mandelbrot drawing program with the 4 transputers each taking a part of the screen and computing it at the same time while a stock ST had the 68K calculate the entire screen by itself. IMHO, Atari had a lot of great products in those days. Unfortunately, most of them were never really marketed or even so, were marketed poorly. Ben From djenner at halcyon.com Fri Aug 15 11:36:43 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get? Message-ID: <199708151644.JAA00361@mail1.halcyon.com> Rich, I have found that getting hardware is relatively easy. I probably have enough pieces to put together a half-dozen Q-Bus 11's, although I consider most of the pieces "spares". Software, however, is another matter. Original distribution disks with accompanying documentation has been hard to come by. If you have any knowledge of DEC OSs, grab all you can get. For instance, I have been looking for an original distribution (disks, docs) for RT-11 Version 5.2 or later. If you run across a spare one of these, I would be happy to help you dispose of it! :) Thanks, Dave Jenner djenner@halcyon.com Seattle, WA 206-527-2018 ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get? > Date: Friday, August 15, 1997 6:19 AM > > Hello, all: > > Well, I finally heard from that guy at Temple University (Philly, PA) about > the truckloads of PDP equipment. I'm going down there next Friday to get some > stuff. I asked this question before, but didn't get a complete answer, so here > it goes again... > > "If you were able to get your pick of PDP-11 equipment (like 11/34s) and > accessories, what would you get?" This is my first PDP acquisition, so I don't > know what to look for (and I don't have a truck, so I can't just haul it > all!). I don't even know how big this stuff is, but I'd like to try to get a > "complete" (whatever that is) PDP system, but a rack-mount style, which is > easier for me to transport. > > From what I understand, the Temple computer department has truckloads of this > equipment, from all types of hardware to software and manuals. I'm looking for > an expert's recommendation as to what to shop for. > > Thanks for the input! > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Rich Cini/WUGNET > e-mail: rcini@msn.com > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Aug 15 11:43:20 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D9A3EB@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> No transputers, but I know where you can get a 1450XLD from an ex-Atari employee, although he is only willing to sell it if he gets "the right price", whatever that is. Kai > ---------- > From: bluesky6@ix.netcom.com > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, August 15, 1997 9:21 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) > > I have actually seen the Atari Transputer machine at a show in Paris. > > If memory serves, one of the demos they had was the mandelbrot drawing > program with the 4 transputers each taking a part of the screen and > computing it at the same time while a stock ST had the 68K calculate > the entire screen by itself. > > IMHO, Atari had a lot of great products in those days. Unfortunately, > most of them were never really marketed or even so, were marketed > poorly. > > Ben > From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Aug 15 12:14:24 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Haggling Message-ID: <33F48E70.2F40@oboe.calpoly.edu> > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > I would tend to agree with Roger. Deal with people fairly and they'll > > respect you and your hobby. If you start haggling over every tiny little > > thing they'll just throw it away instead of calling you next time... > > I disagree. Nobody is going to say "Gee, I'd really like to take all > this old junk and sell it at a swap meet but those darn hagglers just > make it such a chore!!!" > > It's part of the whole swap meet experience. The fact is, I do treat > people fairly. I'm paying them what I feel it is worth, and as we all > know, that is what a "fair price" is. They certainly don't have to sell > it to me for what I ask, and in fact that has happened on several occasions. > Sam At a swap meet or garage sale most people expect you to haggle. That is part of the game. You can tell pretty quick if they're not into it becuse they say no to your offer. Most of the people I buy stuff from are just trying to get rid of it. They're more than happy to bargain. Especially if you buy all the boxes of "computer junk" they have. On the other hand there's a lady who hauls out an old Amiga 500 without power supply or mouse every week and is "Firm at $100". Someday she'll figure it out. (usually $5-$10 at Goodwill) I recall a stubborn seller a few years back. I was searching for a collectible Coke machine. I called a guy that had one for $1000. I mentioned making an offer once I had seen it and he told me he was "firm" on $1000 and seemed insulted. Well, before I could get there to check it out, a fellow collector drove down there within an hour and hauled it away for $200! Funny thing is that at the time I was ready to fork out at least $600 for it! You can never tell what people are thinking. From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Fri Aug 15 12:16:51 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Please help this Amiga 500! Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970815171651.008f52e4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Lets try and help this guy out, he is trying to hook the young! I got a call yesterday from this guy who was looking for a disk drive for an Amiga 500, he is trying to set it up for his young niece. As luck would have it, a disk drive was the only piece of Amiga hardware that I have, so I went down there today to set it up for him. Unfortunately, it seems that the problem is not the disk drive but the floppy controller (i think). Not being fortunate enough to have owned an Amiga myself, I am at a loss. Here is the problem in brief: The machine will display the little picture asking for the disk... Put the disk in, and the drive is polled, but doesn't read it, so it ask again for the disk... I tried my drive in the system, with the same result (hence thinking it might be the controller)... I'm not exactly sure if it is the right disk he has, he ordered it from Toronto at a cost of $26.00 (can), it says Amiga workbench, however I am not sure if that is really what is on it... I would appreciate any help or suggestions from anybody who might have come across this situation before. Remember: This guy is setting this up for his young niece, who calls every day asking if it is ready yet. I think its great to get the young into classic computing (my own nieces just call my machines door stops, and call me a geek for having them ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 15 15:14:39 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: HP 9831A In-Reply-To: <199708151610.JAA28337@mx4.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Aug 15, 97 08:24:14 am Message-ID: <9708151914.AA13476@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1000 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970815/04bc8e69/attachment.ksh From MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com Fri Aug 15 15:40:29 1997 From: MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <802B50C269DECF11B6A200A0242979EF28C7BA@consulting.ensemble.net> > > the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and > (PAL-encoded) > > chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it > feeds audio > > through to the TV. > > The composite video on the G7400 is Pal encoded, and I'm pretty sure > it is on the G7000. I have 2 sets of schematics. One for the > Odyssey2 (where every part number is an internal Magnavox number :-P > and the other for the G7000) - I seem to recall something about PAL > conversion on the RF modulator board. I probably just don't remember > right. > > If one is not composite video, where is the sync encoded? On Y (i.e. > making it composite mono)? I suppose this could just possibly be > video > + composite sync - just what I need. > > > >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the > video side > > >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? > (Philips > > >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, > for > > >> >> example...) > > > > >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. > I > > > > What the heck are those? > > 8245 is a Nat Semi keyboard controller. This chip says Intel on it, > but > I was assuming, probably very rashly, that it was the same thing. > > [Matt Pritchard] > We've been unable to find any info on the video chip; though it > supposed to be an Intel chip. Most of it has been reversed enginnered > though. > > 8 colors > 4 sprites, 8 by 8 pixels, independantly positioned & colord. can be > double sized > 12 characters, independantly positioned & colored, up to an 8 byte > tall strip from the character rom (512 bytes, 64 chars) can show just > part of a character. > 4 quad characters. 4 characters positioned in a horizontal row with > one character spacing inbetween. independantly colored. Put two of > these together to make 8 consecutive text characters. > > Background grid 10 by 8 blocks with 4 thin line segements around each > block. Complete off/on control of ever segment. Set a flag in the > video chip to fill in the large box to the right of each vertical line > segment. > > The horizontal retrace is run into the 8048 so you can count scanlines > - that is how colors are changed midway down the screen. > > 6110 is a typo for 6810 :-), in fact Motorola MCM6810, a RAM chip. > Looking it up last night I discovered that it is in fact 128 by 8 > (yes, > 128 bytes!) so I cannot think what it is used for! (It is too slow to > > be a video output buffer) > > [Matt Pritchard] > Are you sure it's not 256 bytes? > > Philip. From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 15 18:39:40 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Message-ID: Anyone want any Kaypro 10s? I know someone who has a couple he wants to get rid of. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 15 20:00:44 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer References: Message-ID: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> A friend of mine has several Heathkit Analog Computers and was thinking about selling them. Apparently the larger one was used in a college and has 12 or so tube type op amps. I've never seen the smaller ones so I don't know anything about them except that he has some paperwork to go with them. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll look up and post his email address. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 15 20:33:57 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: HP 9831A Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970816013357.0067d460@pop3.concentric.net> how much you asking? I'll pick up the postage and little something for your time. jrkeys@concentric.net At 08:24 AM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >Dug up an HP 9831A...single-line, dot matrix display, full keyboard desktop >unit (abt the size of a typewriter). Looks fairly old. > >Seems to be a full computer (not a programmable calculator, which they also >made a lot of), as it wakes up in a BASIC mode. I get a lot of error >messages --probably due to improper commands. It will accept and run a >simple program. > >Anyone want it? > >manney@nwohio.com > > > From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Fri Aug 15 21:06:47 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > Anyone want any Kaypro 10s? I know someone who has a couple he wants to > get rid of. How much? Where at? > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Les more@crazy.rutgers.edu From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 16 00:00:54 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer References: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> Message-ID: <33F53406.62BBF02A@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine has several Heathkit Analog Computers and was thinking > about selling them. Apparently the larger one was used in a college and > has > 12 or so tube type op amps. I've never seen the smaller ones so I don't > know anything about them except that he has some paperwork to go with > them. > If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll look up and post his email > address. I've gotten a number of requests for his email address. I've already sent him email and as soon as I receive an indication that I have the correct email address, I'll forward the mail I have to him and post his email address here. From Historical at aol.com Sat Aug 16 03:30:15 1997 From: Historical at aol.com (Historical@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Old computer auction Message-ID: <970816043015_854478501@emout13.mail.aol.com> Maybe we can help someone sell an old system in the future. I'm just now fooling around with an internet auction. We hope to do another in the future. Check out the old computer auction at: http://members.aol.com/mtpro I appreciate any discussion and comments. Thanks. Best, David Greelish, Classic Computing Press http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 16 10:43:33 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Old computer auction References: <970816043015_854478501@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <33F5CAA5.8467496B@rain.org> Historical@aol.com wrote: > Maybe we can help someone sell an old system in the future. I'm just now > fooling around with an internet auction. We hope to do another in the > future. > Check out the old computer auction at: > > http://members.aol.com/mtpro > > I appreciate any discussion and comments. Thanks. Best, Hi Dave, just curious how the minimum bids were arrived at as they are quite high based on the prices I see out here in California. The web page looks great and one addition that would be make it nice is to see the latest bid and an easy way to bid. One format I have seen and looks really good is at http://www2.ebay.com/aw/list.html. The idea of an old computer auction is great and best of luck with it! From william at ans.net Sat Aug 16 11:57:04 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D9A313@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708161657.AA10616@interlock.ans.net> > I know of only two collectors besides myself who have 5100's. In > contrast, there are about 15 Altairs represented on this mailing list. I have one of the things, along with most of the associated bits. Unfortunately, The two BIG floppies were scrapped by the previous owner - thus, I am in need of one or two (5108 maybe?). I have never fired it up, as it has some power supply problems that need to be solved. Once I fix that (currently in the endless queue of projects) I should make some copies of the software (if the tapes are still good) for other collectors. My example actually earned its keep, doing the accounting for a Chicago movie theater in the late 1970s. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sat Aug 16 13:00:53 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708161800.AA13799@interlock.ans.net> > I totally agree. And again, I was referring mainly to swap meets. You > don't generally build long term relationships at swap meets. I have to disagree here - swap meets are great places to build relationships. The best way is to become a regular, setting up a table with a few things for sale or trade (it need not be much) - of course, be sure to place a big WANTED sign in front so everyone can see. If you have something small (micro guys!), bring it along as a bit of a display. When I lived in Chicago, I did this for my radio and radar collecting interests, along with a fellow military radio collector. In a couple of years, we became fixtures of the hamfest/swapfest scene, and the leads just poured in. Many an old radioman would see something he used in a radioroom and come over and talk, and occaisonally they would have some extra things sitting in the basement they want moved out! Bringing out a PDP-8/e or Altair 8800 or whatever could have the same effect. Many of the hackers of the 1960s and 70s are still around, and still have the stuff, not knowing that someone would ever want. I acquired one of my PDP-8s and a carload of ancient 6800 systems (Sphere and SWTPC) that way. > The scrap > dealers are a much different story. True. They can not keep systems sitting around, waiting for a really good price - the next truckload is just around the corner. They are generally happy to sell something for scrap value (no less, do not even try!) - if you get to know them well. It saves them the labor of scrapping the big boxes, and gives them quick money. Keep in mind scrap prices can be quite large. AN IBM 360 is worth about $800, a typical big PDP-11 may be worth $125. The gold in the old machines is often quite thick. The iron value is often a liability to the scrap men (2-3 cents per pound), so if a box you lust for is mostly steel, do not get taken! William Donzelli william@ans.net From tedbird at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 16 13:24:34 1997 From: tedbird at ix.netcom.com (tedbird) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Mark 8 References: <3.0.3.32.19970815080531.007ceae0@mail90> Message-ID: <33F5F062.AE1@ix.netcom.com> Glenn Roberts wrote: > > From: > Tom > > 4:22 > > Subject: > Mark-8 for sale > > FYI, from comp.os.cpm: > > >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. > >Serious collectors only. > >Tom Smith > >tomxs@hotmail.com How much are you looking to get for the Mark-8? Ted tedbird@ix.netcom.com From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Aug 17 00:21:31 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: NSC800 Message-ID: Hi I found a scrap place today that ahd a few computers - got on good terms and now they are going to ring me whenever they pick one up. :) Apparantly they just scrapped an old Xerox box, but no details, and they get the occasional Altair and stuff. Anyway, they had little on hand that interested me (I already had their Amstrads, and the Commodore 128D's had no monitor or keyboards, so I thought I would think about them), but I did pick up something - I just don't know what it is. It's about the size of a original PC/XT, but the case is blue - with a blue clear panel on the front. Has two com ports and a vdu port, and two 8" drives. I opened her up, and she has a rack with everything plugging in at teh back, inc lots of controllers. There was a NSC800 cpu module, and when I removed it, sure enough, there was a NSC800 N-1 cpu. No idea what that is though. Heaps of switches, leds and stuff behind the front panel, too. Anyway, this is somewhat outside my normal collecting range, and isn't probably of much interest, but at a couple of dollars I thought it might be worth looking into it. Can anyone tell me what it is, or anything about it? Thanks heaps, Adam. From rcini at msn.com Sat Aug 16 21:24:34 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: FW: Altair Scans Message-ID: Hello, again... Well, the Altair scans got here today, and I must say that the quality is excellent. There's stuff for the 8800b, the 8800, some add-in boards, and the "computer-notes" pamphlets. All told, with the schematics, there's about 90mb of info. Based on a quick count, there's probably 750-1000 pages of info. The files are in Adobe Acrobat PDF format. As soon Bill can reach his computer again, I'll Fedex them to him to post on the ftp site. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Aug 17 01:14:12 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Address change! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970816231412.00e71af0@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, Well, it had to happen eventually I guess. I've had to change my address due to spamming of the old one. Please note that my new address will be kyrrin2@wizards.net. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 17 08:58:02 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: NSC800 Message-ID: <199708171358.AA01257@world.std.com> If this ends up being a duplicate, my apologies. The first one was sent while I may not have been subscribed under my new address. In any case... yes, a new address. I had to ditch the old one due to spamming. Please note the new one: kyrrin2@wizards.net. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Sun Aug 17 11:59:53 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: HP9100 I/O port Message-ID: Does anyone have any info on the I/O port on the back of the HP9100 desktop calculator? I believe that HP once produced a manual telling you how to link up homebrew/custom peripherals, but I don't have it, alas What I really need is a pinout, brief signal descriptions or timings, etc. I want to be able to output a few on/off signals (I don't care if they're binary or BCD encoded). -tony From Historical at aol.com Sun Aug 17 20:26:49 1997 From: Historical at aol.com (Historical@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 147 Message-ID: <970817212322_1486403672@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 8/17/97 9:45:58 AM, you wrote: <> Marvin, Well, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida and I source all of my finds from the AOL classifieds and from a number of newsgroups. The prices are just my best guesses to minimum "shipped" values. The true value of any collectable is what the market will bare. I think I'm letting some of these things go at a pretty modest level (at least from my reference). Thank you for your comments, I'm going to keep trying to make it a better page. Best, David Greelish Classic Computing Press Jacksonville, FL historical@aol.com http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 17 21:17:37 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 147 References: <970817212322_1486403672@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <33F7B0C1.FC674A6A@rain.org> Historical@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/17/97 9:45:58 AM, you wrote: > > < quite high based on the prices I see out here in California.>> > > Marvin, Well, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida and I source all of my > finds > from the AOL classifieds and from a number of newsgroups. The prices are > just > my best guesses to minimum "shipped" values. The true value of any > collectable is what the market will bare. I think I'm letting some of > these > things go at a pretty modest level (at least from my reference). Thank you > > for your comments, I'm going to keep trying to make it a better page. > Best, > > David Greelish > Classic Computing Press > Jacksonville, FL > historical@aol.com > http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm AH, I thought the prices were plus shipping rather than including shipping and that makes a BIG difference! BTW, I get an "object not found" message when I access the URL above. Second, I noticed you are looking for computers including the Northstar Horizon. Are you open to trading systems? I currently have four or five Horizons and am open to trading them for other systems/stuff I don't have (yes Sam, it is phrased the same as before :) .) The biggest problem *I* have with trading systems is the shipping costs are almost always more than what I can get the whole computer for assuming I can find the computer :)! From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 17 21:31:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith Microprocessor Trainer References: <970817212322_1486403672@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <33F7B3F9.FCA4922A@rain.org> I picked up a Heath/Zenith Microcomputer Learning System in excellent shape today for $20. However, the manuals didn't come with it. It uses the 65402 microprocessor Anyone with an extra set they are willing to sell/trade? Thanks. From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 17 23:25:10 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970818002508.00942450@mail.northernway.net> Well, guys & gals, remember me? I'm one of the folks who lives in the boonies that owns 70% of the classic machines in a 50 mile radius!!! I travelled just a bit closer to civilization over the weekend, and did a lot of gar[b]age saleing on Thurs. & Friday, and I did get one good find, well, for at least the thumb area of Michigan (lotsa farmers)... A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5. It even came in a computer/game holder, to keep everything organized. (haggled from $10... had to give wifey a lesson on "Don't ask me what it is, when I'm playing dumb!" ;-) Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3 types of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-( Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something? Anyway, keep digging, you'll eventually come up with something! Have fun, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 18 02:04:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: Opus 5000 Message-ID: Anybody know what an Opus 5000 is? Someone offered me one for sale and I'm trying to figure out how much I should offer to pay him for it. Thanks. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 18 08:53:17 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707188719.AA871920147@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Hi there everyone! I went to the car boot sale again yesterday. For once, there were lots of computers on offer: two ZX Spectra (original 16K); one Spectrum +2; an Atari 620; any number of Commodore 64s in late-style cases. I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip microcomputer. THE LCD looks as if it might be 200 or 256 by 64 pixels (40 characters by 8 lines?) - I haven't powered it up yet because (a) the NiCd battery is flat and (b) I have yet to work out what voltage to feed it (3.5mm jack with tip negative). All I know is that it must be smoothed DC, since there is a diode but no smoothing capacitor in the input stage. The battery is 4.8V, and somewhat inconsistently marked 0.8 Ah - charge at 50mA for 14 hours (I make that 0.7Ah less charging losses), so the power supply (which feeds a linear regulator - transistor in parallel with 82 ohms) must be greater than this. I would guess at something in the region of 9V given the size of the resistors in the regulator circuit, but... The manufacturer's label on the back suggests it is a Microscribe Model 320, made by Microscribe Ltd at Cwmbran in South Wales. Since they had the forethought to put an address and 'phone number on the label, I shall try and contact them this week (DV). Meanwhile, does anyone have any info on this? In particular, what voltage do I feed it? Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 03:57:39 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:34 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds In-Reply-To: <9707188719.AA871920147@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) Nice!!!.... > > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 Very nice... > > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip > microcomputer. Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a ROM image turns up some interesting stuff) > > THE LCD looks as if it might be 200 or 256 by 64 pixels (40 characters > by 8 lines?) - I haven't powered it up yet because (a) the NiCd battery > is flat and (b) I have yet to work out what voltage to feed it (3.5mm > jack with tip negative). All I know is that it must be smoothed DC, > since there is a diode but no smoothing capacitor in the input stage. Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The HX20 had no other power regulator. (Yes, there is a zener diode across the lines, but that's just protection if the NiCd goes O/C) If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be arround 50mA. > Philip. -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 18 10:28:17 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707188719.AA871925726@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no > > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) > > Nice!!!.... Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700 or two...) > > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 > > Very nice... > > > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 > > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM > > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip > > microcomputer. > > Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly > related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something > for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think > is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a > ROM image turns up some interesting stuff) 'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse, gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303 flavour. > Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP > certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the > ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input stage is something like: Diode Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+ | 56R | \ | |C / 82R | |/ \ +-/\/\/-+--| NPN / | |\ | _ |E | Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??) | | GND GND I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it! If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... > Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the > NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The ^^^^^ I take it you mean wouldn't > If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up > towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop > if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be > arround 50mA. Worth a try. Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 04:40:06 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds In-Reply-To: <9707188719.AA871925726@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > > Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP > > certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the > > ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). > > Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input > stage is something like: > > Diode > Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+ > | 56R | \ > | |C / 82R > | |/ \ > +-/\/\/-+--| NPN / > | |\ | > _ |E | > Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??) > | | > GND GND > > I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the > regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it! That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you to buy more expensive battery packs) > > If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, > maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... Remember that you'll be charging this thing (probably) with the machine turned off, so it's not going to be taking much current). > > > Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the > > NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The > ^^^^^ > I take it you mean wouldn't Of course I did. Sorry for the typo. > Philip. -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 18 11:06:03 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707188719.AA871928069@compsci.powertech.co.uk> [My ascii circuit diagram] > That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have > expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of > machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you > to buy more expensive battery packs) It does to me, too! By "to get you to buy more expensive battery packs" do you mean that the packs are more expensive, or that they wear out faster? > > If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, > > maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... > > Remember that you'll be charging this thing (probably) with the machine > turned off, so it's not going to be taking much current). Good point. 50mA then (8 < V < 12) based on the 14 hour rate on the battery label. Looks like 9V is about right... There is also a power switch but I haven't found where it connects yet. (Not in series with the circuit I just drew AFAIK) Next task, I suppose, is to trace that part of the circuit. Difficult, because most of PCB tracks are underneath LCD module which is difficult to remove... Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 08:48:38 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds In-Reply-To: <9707188719.AA871928069@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > [My ascii circuit diagram] > > > That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have > > expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of > > machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you > > to buy more expensive battery packs) > > It does to me, too! By "to get you to buy more expensive battery packs" > do you mean that the packs are more expensive, or that they wear out > faster? I mean more {expensive battery packs}. The packs themselves are the same price (but more than the cells that make them up), but they don't last too long. Of course it's normally possible to make up suitable replacement packs from individual cells. One of my HX-20's has a homebrew pack in it (4 2/3C cells, I think), and my RK05's have retraction batteries that happen to be used in cordless telephones. They were a lot cheaper than the genuine DEC part, and work just as well. > Good point. 50mA then (8 < V < 12) based on the 14 hour rate on the > battery label. Looks like 9V is about right... As I said, try it. An adjustable PSU is very useful here, but good ones are not cheap. IMHO a good bench PSU is a very useful piece of equipment when restoring a classic computer - more useful than say a logic analyser. You can power up odd sections, test machines without repairing a defective PSU first, test/align motors, lamps and solenoids (and, for example, make sure an optical tape reader will work at a lower lamp intensity), etc. I like the 30V 10A Velleman one that Maplin sell. It's expensive (\pounds 230.00 as a kit), but it works well. > Philip. -tony From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 18 12:09:23 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: RA81 Message-ID: Umm... I just noticed something. On the READY lamp, where the drive number is supposed to be, mine is blank. There's nothing behind the ready cover. No metal in it. Does that mean drive 0? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 14:02:29 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 18, 97 12:09:23 pm Message-ID: <9708181802.AA28639@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 816 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/ed4b9c7b/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Mon Aug 18 12:53:53 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: HP 9831A Message-ID: <199708181847.LAA27103@mx2.u.washington.edu> > I've got a little reference card for HP9830A Basic. Get me your postal > address and I'll send you a copy. Thank you, it looks as if I'll be unloading it. Perhaps he who gets it would be interested. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 13:50:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer Update References: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> Message-ID: <33F8996E.75185351@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine has several Heathkit Analog Computers and was thinking > about selling them. Apparently the larger one was used in a college and > has I just got email back from him so I forwarded all the email I have gotten. I'll post his email address this afternoon when I hear back from him about the messages he already has. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 15:17:50 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Amoute Computer??? References: <9708181802.AA28639@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <33F8ADED.8DAEC218@rain.org> While at the Hamfest this last weekend, one of the vendors gave me what looks like an MS-DOS luggable with the name "Amoute" on the front. Unfortunately, the back portion of the case is missing, it has one broken key, and it only has a video card installed. Anyone heard of this thing or know anything about it? Thanks. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 15:30:06 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer Update References: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> <33F8996E.75185351@rain.org> Message-ID: <33F8B0CD.AD7D0A31@rain.org> Just got his message back and he has copies of the email I've received about the Heathkit Computer. His name is Roger Christianson and his email address is rchristi@sou.edu. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 18 18:18:26 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? Message-ID: What's an M7165? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 19:29:17 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 18, 97 06:18:26 pm Message-ID: <9708182329.AA29950@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 77 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/34c48443/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 18 18:34:06 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Does anyone else find this hilariously funny? > ---------- > From: Tim Shoppa > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, August 18, 1997 5:29 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: What's an M7165? > > > What's an M7165? > > One half of a KDA50. The other half is a M7164. > > Tim. > From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 18 18:39:34 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Does anyone else find this hilariously funny? > Well, it's not in my DEC book. I was just going through stuff. Oh, and I have RSTS-E and the 11/44 diags on 9-track tape. Which I have no drive for. Anyone wanna take a shot at putting these on DECtape IIs? :) From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 19:07:54 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: 1. After getting slightly sidetracked on the way to Bruce's a couple weeks ago - I'm back ;). 2. Apple III experts - what's the difference between an A3M01 and an A3M02? I'm assuming 01 is the "drop-fix" motherboard and 02 is the fixed version. Does anyone have software for a MS Softcard III? 3. Do you need Apple II parts? I have too many. I have II+s and IIe's (working and not) lots of Monitor III's. Assorted manuals for Apple II and III. Tons of disk drives. If you're looking for something and I have it it's yours for the price of shipping. I have a number of badly broken system which will ultimately be scrapped but I'll be pulling pieces so... I'll eventually put together a list but I need to make some room now so just ask. I'll also be trekking down the coast 2nd week of September so if you live along I5 in OR/WA or 101 in CA I might be able to deliver. 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If you've got nothing better to do ;). Bill -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 18 19:27:51 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > 1. After getting slightly sidetracked on the way to Bruce's a couple > weeks ago - I'm back ;). Welcome back. > 2. Apple III experts - what's the difference between an A3M01 and an > A3M02? I'm assuming 01 is the "drop-fix" motherboard and 02 is the > fixed version. Does anyone have software for a MS Softcard III? Jeff Hellige does. You may want to write him directly as I don't think he's reading the list for the next several weeks. His address is jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com. > list but I need to make some room now so just ask. I'll also be > trekking down the coast 2nd week of September so if you live along > I5 in OR/WA or 101 in CA I might be able to deliver. Stop by for a spell when you get to the bay area. > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > you've got nothing better to do ;). This would make a great workshop at the Vintage Computer Festival. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 19:54:57 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: Can anyone help this guy out? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500 From: Jim Duchek To: bill@booster.bothell.washington.edu Subject: Computers Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you tell me what they are? Thanks. Jim Duchek jimduchek@primary.net From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 18 20:18:28 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15D5D@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 18 20:26:16 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970819012616.0067a840@pop3.concentric.net> I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ?? At 10:28 AM 8/18/97 BST, you wrote: >> > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no >> > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) >> >> Nice!!!.... > >Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700 >or two...) > >> > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 >> >> Very nice... >> >> > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 >> > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM >> > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip >> > microcomputer. >> >> Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly >> related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something >> for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think >> is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a >> ROM image turns up some interesting stuff) > >'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the >flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse, >gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303 >flavour. > >> Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP >> certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the >> ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). > >Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input >stage is something like: > > Diode >Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+ > | 56R | \ > | |C / 82R > | |/ \ > +-/\/\/-+--| NPN / > | |\ | > _ |E | >Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??) > | | > GND GND > >I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the >regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it! > >If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, >maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... > >> Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the >> NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The > ^^^^^ >I take it you mean wouldn't > >> If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up >> towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop >> if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be >> arround 50mA. > >Worth a try. > >Philip. > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 18 20:38:30 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970819013830.0068faec@pop3.concentric.net> If you e-mail me a fax number I can fax you the pages, there are 44 pages in the manual showing the many different settings. At 05:54 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone help this guy out? > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500 >From: Jim Duchek >To: bill@booster.bothell.washington.edu >Subject: Computers > >Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm >assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the >jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you >tell me what they are? Thanks. > > >Jim Duchek >jimduchek@primary.net > > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 21:32:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... References: Message-ID: <33F905B6.A5D46FD@rain.org> Bill Whitson wrote: > -------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator > bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu > CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp Just thought I would mention that the above URL doesn't seem to be valid as I get an error message indicating it has no DNS entry. From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 18 21:51:45 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <33F905B6.A5D46FD@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > Bill Whitson wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator > > bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu > > CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp > > Just thought I would mention that the above URL doesn't seem to be valid > as I get an error message indicating it has no DNS entry. Bill is probably still woozy from the pain killers 8-) http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp Is the correct? active URL. BC From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 21:59:20 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <33F905B6.A5D46FD@rain.org> Message-ID: That's what I get for updating my .sig Main campus keeps dumping my servers out of DNS. Grumble. Try this ;) --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > Bill Whitson wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator > > bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu > > CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp > > Just thought I would mention that the above URL doesn't seem to be valid > as I get an error message indicating it has no DNS entry. > > From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 22:07:10 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970819013830.0068faec@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > If you e-mail me a fax number I can fax you the pages, there are 44 pages in > the manual showing the many different settings. Whew. Hopefully Kai's summary did the job. If he asks for more info I'll point him your way ;). Thanks Bill --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > At 05:54 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Can anyone help this guy out? > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500 > >From: Jim Duchek > >To: bill@booster.bothell.washington.edu > >Subject: Computers > > > >Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm > >assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the > >jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you > >tell me what they are? Thanks. > > > > > >Jim Duchek > >jimduchek@primary.net > > > > > > > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 23:29:43 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 18, 97 04:34:06 pm Message-ID: <9708190329.AA30192@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/d45b0ddc/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 23:34:02 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 18, 97 06:39:34 pm Message-ID: <9708190334.AA30354@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/41250625/attachment.ksh From indavis at juno.com Mon Aug 18 20:48:15 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: New Classic Computer Rescue List Location References: Message-ID: <19970818.210516.9894.3.indavis@juno.com> Due to the unfortunate death of my isp, I have been forced to change the url of the Classic Computer Rescue List. It seems that here in Austin, you can't throw a rock and not hit an internet service provider, but finding a good one seems to be a little harder than just tossing a rock. Here is the new url: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html I have to add a couple people to the list, but I have been busy lately, and had to concentrate on getting all of my web pages off of a really sick server. On the discussion of classic computers, does anyone have some Analog magazines from the 86-87 time frame. I am trying to follow some of the 'Boot Camp' articles (machine language tutorial). The problem that I have is, they all build off of a beginning article, and you'll never guess what I am missing. They are articles on player missile graphics in machine language. If anyone has them, I would really appreciate getting in contact with them. I believe what I am looking for is in the July-October issues. I have November 86 - January 87, which are the last 3 in the series. Thanks. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html From william at ans.net Mon Aug 18 23:55:00 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15D5D@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708190455.AA28442@interlock.ans.net> > For Switch #1: > For Switch #2 (some obscure combos not typed in) It seems to me that one of the sacred switches will put the machine into an endless loop of reboots - just after the self tests, etc., the machine would boot again. I did not know about this, and had a machine that had this "problem". A trip to the library solved it. William Donzelli william@ans.net From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 19 01:25:11 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: New Classic Computer Rescue List Location In-Reply-To: indavis@juno.com's message of Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:48:15 o5 References: <19970818.210516.9894.3.indavis@juno.com> Message-ID: <199708190625.XAA04476@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Isaac Davis wrote: > On the discussion of classic computers, does anyone have some Analog > magazines from the 86-87 time frame. I am trying to follow some of the > 'Boot Camp' articles (machine language tutorial). The problem that I > have is, they all build off of a beginning article, and you'll never > guess what I am missing. They are articles on player missile graphics in > machine language. If anyone has them, I would really appreciate getting > in contact with them. I believe what I am looking for is in the > July-October issues. I have November 86 - January 87, which are the last > 3 in the series. Time for a show of hands: how many of us are going to LoneStarCon in San Antonio over Labor Day weekend? Isaac, if you haven't found these by say 27 August, please let us know so we know to be looking for them in the huckster room.... -Frank McConnell From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 19 09:03:23 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707198720.AA872007086@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ?? Thanks, John. I am looking for: Cartridges (I have none), preferably not of arcade-style games unless particularly significant Manuals, in particular pinout and levels of video port so that I can connect a monitor of some description... Also, details of what sort of joystick I need to connect... Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 03:57:42 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > you've got nothing better to do ;). Count me in on this - if I can figure out _why_ I do things. The latter is actually a big problem. Most of the time I do things 'because that's obviously the thing to do' - i.e. I've done it many times before, and there are good reasons why (for example) the line output transistor is the big one on the heatsink next to the flyback - but it's difficult to remember this when you're writing a how-to. Disk drive alignment : I've read many documents (and even a few books) on how to do this without an alignment disk (typically by using a commercial software master disk , finding where the signal falls off in each direction , and setting the head midway between the two point). Without exception, every method has failed. IMHO the only way to align a drive is with the proper (expensive) alignment CE disk. 5.25" and 3.5" alignment disks are still available (but expect to pay $100 a time...). I can't find 3" (Amstrad, etc) or 8" alignment disks anywhere, alas... One day I'm going to rip apart an old 8" drive and put a micrometer on the head assembly. I can then (hopefuly) record my own alignment disks using a bit of simple electronics. > > Bill -tony From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Aug 19 00:55:59 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199708190955.FAA28933@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! > > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > > you've got nothing better to do ;). Composite of any kind are no difference TV has it too internally! That would be wonderful when TV is very high quality tube/circuit board to begin with. I think that someone would cut in byond the Tuner for composite. Aligning the drives is touch and go, once in a while I was successful. The rate is much better on screw type because it's easy to tweak until it fails either side and plant it in exactly midway. I always recheck it with series of formatted disks from fresh drives finding the both sides to get enough consistent results. Worst drives to align is split-belt type. That is far hard to do. Most of time on these screw types distrance between scratch marks is about less than 5 or so degrees. Lots of drives are all compatiable mechanically and most of time far easier to find a good used similar brand and swap the logic board that still works to a good mechanical drive. Amiga 880k drives are really PC 720k drives with bit of differences in logic board so the mechanical drive swapping the boards to another is good idea. The pinout is very close too but I still have not found the HOW-TO to hack the standard PC 720k drive for Amigas. BTW, I know that compaq SLT series laptop always use Toshiba drives which means you can replace the worn out mechanical part with good ones but still keeping the logic board. > The latter is actually a big problem. Most of the time I do things > 'because that's obviously the thing to do' - i.e. I've done it many times > before, and there are good reasons why (for example) the line output > transistor is the big one on the heatsink next to the flyback - but it's > difficult to remember this when you're writing a how-to. There's those crankerous capacitors too they does kill the HOT if the signal is not cleaned up by those little capacitors. And capacitors are used often to shape the waveforms to keep the tube image square and nice. Better Grab the Bob's ESR meter, it spots the baddies every time capacitance meter missed and excellent meter for fractions of a ohm or less as well. That is useful in hi frequency area where ESR values is important. I'm trying to get that ESR meter too since I fix tons of switching PSU and monitors because it's so inexpensive. About 60 USD and if anyone would like to, I have web url address. > Disk drive alignment : I've read many documents (and even a few books) on > how to do this without an alignment disk (typically by using a commercial > software master disk , finding where the signal falls off in each > direction , and setting the head midway between the two point). Without > exception, every method has failed. IMHO the only way to align a drive is > with the proper (expensive) alignment CE disk. BIG LOUD OUCH! I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes run to pay off in due time. :) > > 5.25" and 3.5" alignment disks are still available (but expect to pay $100 > a time...). I can't find 3" (Amstrad, etc) or 8" alignment disks anywhere, > alas... > > One day I'm going to rip apart an old 8" drive and put a micrometer on the > head assembly. I can then (hopefuly) record my own alignment disks using a > bit of simple electronics. Well, better renew the mechanicals to assure tight tolences! Screw type does wear out especially the pin that rides in screw groove. Not that hard if you can grab the pin real good firmly and pull and rotate it 180 and reinstall. And lot of 3.5" especially new ones are plain plastic bearings sliding on the smooth steel rods is the worst wear. Those ones who uses bushings fares better. All those oil and grease should be cheaned out and relubed again. And BIGGEST hint hint HINT, the belt driven drives is still made for those notebooks. Gak, I thought belt driven spindle is really no longer in production or in new design, OH BOY, what a biggest mistake! (Just fixed one recently.) Just in case anyone here, look into your notebook and look around the (purplish coloured) hub, you should see the black band, that's belt wound around it, spun by the elcheapo PM motor. When you work on one someday you will find there's is one fixed naked ball bearing idler for the belt. Jason D. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 05:59:07 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708190955.FAA28933@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > > > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > > > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > > > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > > > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > > > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > > > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > > > you've got nothing better to do ;). > Composite of any kind are no difference TV has it too internally! > That would be wonderful when TV is very high quality tube/circuit > board to begin with. I think that someone would cut in byond the > Tuner for composite. If the TV has an isolated chassis (even some modern ones have the chassis connected to the AC line!), then you can feed composite video in after the video detector. A service manual for the TV and/or data sheets on the chips in it will indicate a likely point for this. On the other hand, very few home computers use need the bandwidth, so it's easier to use a UHF modulator if you're feeding a TV from a composite source or a tuner board (ripped from an old VCR) if you want to drive a composite monitor from a home computer TV output. Of course you can nearly always find signals inside the home computer that are either composite video or that can be trivially combined to make composite video. Some people like to keep their classics in factory condition, but I personally don't mind simple reversably modifications if it makes the machine more useful. > > Aligning the drives is touch and go, once in a while I was Given the alignment disk and a good 'scope it's a lot easier. You are not looking for points either side of the right alignment - you adjust the head position until the waveform looks right and clamp it up. > > The latter is actually a big problem. Most of the time I do things > > 'because that's obviously the thing to do' - i.e. I've done it many times > > before, and there are good reasons why (for example) the line output > > transistor is the big one on the heatsink next to the flyback - but it's > > difficult to remember this when you're writing a how-to. > There's those crankerous capacitors too they does kill the HOT if the > signal is not cleaned up by those little capacitors. And capacitors That's exactly the point. I'd not forget the nth harmonic tuning caps if I had the chassis in front of me, but I might well do so in a How-to. Ditto things like checking for shorts on the LV lines produced from the flyback (which often feed half the stages in the monitor) > area where ESR values is important. I'm trying to get that ESR meter > too since I fix tons of switching PSU and monitors because it's so > inexpensive. About 60 USD and if anyone would like to, I have web > url address. Anybody know a UK source for this. I do a lot of SMPS and monitor repairs (both classic computers and modern ones), and it would be useful. There's always ARD's quick test for large capacitors, which I hesitate to mention, but which I used to sort out my 11/44 PSU when it was failing. It goes like this : 1) Charge up the cap from a 9V battery, observing polarity. Connect it for a few seconds then disconnect it. 2) Wait about 5 seconds 3) Short the capacitor terminals with a screwdriver. Anything over about 1000uF should make quite a spark. If it doesn't, it's either leaky or has high ESR and should be replaced. I had a 5000uF capacitor in the 11/44 that tested on my meter (using the 'balistic method' - connect it on to an analogue ohmmeter and see how large the charging 'kick' is, compare to other capacitors) as about 4700uF, but which had a very high ESR. > I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes > run to pay off in due time. :) It's not that bad. You only need 4 disks total - one of each size. They're no more expensive than the other test gear you really should have. If somebody could find a UK source of 8" alignment disks then I'd buy one _now!_ I was lucky in a way. A place where I was working was decomissioning a lot of PDP11 stuff, and of course I went (with a number of other people) to rescue it all. The nice thing was that they'd done all their own repairs, and they were also giving away the extender boards, test cables, _and_ alignment disks (RK05) and skewmaster 9-track alignment tapes. Needless to say I grabbed all that stuff. I was _given_ a Dysan 5.25" alignment disk a few months back :-). > > One day I'm going to rip apart an old 8" drive and put a micrometer on the > > head assembly. I can then (hopefuly) record my own alignment disks using a > > bit of simple electronics. > Well, better renew the mechanicals to assure tight tolences! Screw > type does wear out especially the pin that rides in screw groove. I was planning on removing the pin altogether and letting the head carriage move freely over the leadscrew. Then fit a micrometer head and a spring to pull the head assy agains the end of the micrometer. I should be able to get about 1" of calibrated head movement. > Not that hard if you can grab the pin real good firmly and pull and > rotate it 180 and reinstall. And lot of 3.5" especially new ones > are plain plastic bearings sliding on the smooth steel rods is the > worst wear. Those ones who uses bushings fares better. > All those oil and grease should be cheaned out and relubed again. The service manual for my 3.5" drive (Teac FD235-something) specifies lubrication instructions. I thought I was the only person to follow them... > Jason D. -tony From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Aug 19 06:34:38 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Apple? Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> I purchased a batch of old micros which included 3 Apples, 1 ][E and two that are not identified. The motherboards are longer than on the "E" and extend under the keyboard. The keyboard has a white key labled upr and lwr case, pwr. in the lower left corner, and the rear of the case has U shaped cutouts instead of the type of openings on the "E" and "+". I havent been able to find "Apple" on the case or motherboard but the power supply seems identical to that in the "E" and "+". Can anyone suggest what I have? Thanks Charlie Fox From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Tue Aug 19 07:35:03 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:51:45 -0500 (CDT), Brett wrote this: > http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp ^^^^^^^^ Why do I always parse this as "halitosis"? :-) ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Tue Aug 19 07:43:31 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <199708190843_MC2-1D86-646A@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5.< Were you soliciting information on the TI? The joysticks aren't Atari-standard, so you're lucky those were in the package. Cartridge-wise, look through your haul particularly for Extended BASIC, Disk Manager II and Terminal Emulator II. The first is critical if you even get an Peripheral Expansion Box ("PEB"); the second is helpful if you get a PEB. The third is useful if you ever get the voice synthesizer (or of course, if you want to try a modem). If you have an Adventure cartridge, it won't do you much good unless you also got the accompanying tape. >Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3 types of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-( < No clue on why . . . . >Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something?< No way of telling, short of inserting it and seeing what pops up. Gil Parrish 107765.1161@compuserve.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 19 08:10:01 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: <199708191310.AA11023@world.std.com> <> I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes <> run to pay off in due time. :) < Message-ID: > <_now!_ > > Dec diagnostic disks that havent been rewritten are generally very close to > nominal alignment. But as you said below, you need offset tracks to do an alignment properly. Trying to find the points where the amplitude falls off and then setting the head midway between them has never worked for me. > > > While you can do this there is one problem. Alignment disks are recorded > with a narrower than normal trackwdith and also stagger tracks (recorded > with offset either side of true) for alignment use. Yes, I'd realised that. I was planning on making a circuit that triggered off the index pulse and recorded 'bursts' of (say) 250kHz pulses on the disk. A bit of logic would let me record a track offset towards the edge of the disk, twiddle the micrometer to move the head to the same offset towards the spindle and then record bursts between the ones I'd just put down. Now align the target drive so that both types of burst are replayed at the same amplitude. > > Another tool you need is a source of 125/250/500khz pulses that conform to > FM timing (single density) for writing patterns. This is something you can > build out a handful of counters and a 4mhz clock osc. That's somewhat trivial to build IMHO... > Over the years I've found that if the drive needs alignment it's wise to > look for other problems like spindle and motor bearings that are tired The bearings are AFAIK standard parts, and can be easily replaced. > or head to actuator wear that will make for sloppy operation. Head > alignment can signal other problems. I retired a SA800 for spindle > bearings because the thing would not reliably read (had a new in the box > spare). Generally I've found that it's best to put aside those drives in > favor of a better one stealing the logic from it as needed. The only time I The older SA800's used entirely standard logic, so it's not worth taking parts from an old one. SA850's used custom chips in the read/write circuit, and later SA800's (according to my service manual) used one big custom chip :-(. I guess then you have to get spares from old drives. > would fix it is when there is really no other choice. Unless doing a museum Getting _new_ 8" drives is next-to-impossible, and if you use a second-hand one, you've got no proof it's better than the one you're replacing unless you test it with the alignment disk (after checking it handles a scratch disk correctly, of course...). > style restore I've found some drives are better dumped (sa400s in general) > in favor of other better drives of the era. The less said about that SA400 the better.... > > > Allison -tony From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 19 08:51:09 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:51:45 -0500 (CDT), Brett wrote this: > > http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > ^^^^^^^^ > Why do I always parse this as "halitosis"? :-) Same reason I do. It's the closest string that's a familiar word. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dhq at juno.com Tue Aug 19 08:34:50 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: video games Message-ID: <19970819.093352.2167.0.dhq@juno.com> While scouring the garage sales this weekend I found 2 old video games, an Atari Pong and a Magnavox Odyssey. They both work, and I could NOT pass them up at the sellers asking price! Hopefully someone else collects these older games. If anybody knows of a list or web site I would appreciate the info. P.S. My T/S 1000 hasn't been sold yet, I guess it is not yet a collectors piece. Regard, David Quackenbush dhq@juno.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 19 10:00:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 19, 97 02:22:37 pm Message-ID: <9708191400.AA30757@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970819/bf7d9071/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 19 09:13:29 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: <199708191413.AA04940@world.std.com> <> Getting _new_ 8" drives is next-to-impossible < and 360k 5.25 on the front pannel makes for a fairly roomy system. That system has a 2meg ramdisk so it can boot and copy the floppies to ramdisk for speed. Advantages include if the media fails pop the cover and put in a new disk and it's less likely to crash the disk if dropped. The only other storage I keep around is the TU58 dectapeII as it's serial and can be plugged into anything that can do RS232/423. At 256k a cart its not big or fast. What I'd like to find out how to do is use the floppy interfaced tapes for non-PC systems. These drives in the smaller storage sizes can be found cheap and even new ones aren't too expensive. Allison From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 09:57:33 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <9708190329.AA30192@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > That's what happens when I answer a question as briefly as > possible :-). I had about 10 seconds to run out of my office > and catch a bus home when I sent that off! > > Now the long explanation: A KDA50 is a Q-bus version of the UDA50. > Oooh! Good thing! I was about to drop that in a Unibus! That means maybe the 11/23 can start RSTS-E? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 09:58:21 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <9708190334.AA30354@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > A 2400' reel of 1600 bpi 9-track is about 40 Megabytes. That's > equivalent to 160 DECTape II carts. I think you'd be better off finding > yourself a 9-track drive! Everyone should have one - I now have > sixteen such drives (800/1600, 1600, or 1600/6250, or 7-track) > in my house. > I just got one. More later. From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 10:36:06 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: video games In-Reply-To: <19970819.093352.2167.0.dhq@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, David H Quackenbush wrote: > While scouring the garage sales this weekend I found 2 old video games, > an Atari Pong and a Magnavox Odyssey. They both work, and I could NOT > pass them up at the sellers asking price! Hopefully someone else collects > these older games. If anybody knows of a list or web site I would > appreciate the info. Is your Magnavox Odyssey the actual "Odyssey" or is it "Odyssey2 Microprocessor"? If its just the plain old "Odyssey" with the TV overlays and the carthridges that have huge edge connectors then you've got yourself a nice find there. Otherwise the Odyssey2 is pretty run of the mill. The Atari Pong is a nice find. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 10:30:53 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I purchased a batch of old micros which included 3 Apples, 1 ][E and two > that are not identified. The motherboards are longer than on the "E" and > extend under the keyboard. The keyboard has a white key labled upr and lwr > case, pwr. in the lower left corner, and the rear of the case has U shaped > cutouts instead of the type of openings on the "E" and "+". > I havent been able to find "Apple" on the case or motherboard but the > power supply seems identical to that in the "E" and "+". Can anyone suggest > what I have? Sounds like an Apple ][ or ][+ with the name tag missing. Either that or its a clone ][ or ][+. I don't understand your description of "upr and lwr case" but the original ][s didn't have lower case, so if that's the case then it's most like a clone. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 10:41:08 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Looking for Doug Spence Message-ID: Doug Spence, please e-mail me so I have your current e-mail address. I tried e-mailing you the images of the Apple3 system disks and it bounced. If anyone else wants ShrinkIt archives of the Apple /// system disks let me know and I'll e-mail them off to you. You'll need an Apple that can run ShrinkIt (//e, //c, //gs, ???) and a copy of ShrinkIt (can be found on the net, public domain AFAIK) to transfer them to 5.25" floppies. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 11:03:00 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have absolutely no idea. It's plenty large, though... There's two boxes. One is the drive, the other is ??? The other is lighter than the drive. I'll drag it in here first. The front panel on the box says: HP 1000 A900 HEWLETT PACKARD. It appears to fit into a DEC rack... The back panel looks like this: +-----------------------------------------------------+ | ==== ==== ==== ==== === * === ==== ==== ==== ==== | | ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | | | | | +-----+ +----+ | | | ST1 | | ST2| +----+ +------+ | | | | | | |ST3 | | ST4 | | | +-----+ +----+ +----+ * +------+ | | +-------------------------------------------------+ | | +--------------------OPEN SPOT--------------------+ | | SW1 PG1 DG1 SW2 PG2 | +-----------------------------------------------------+ Explanation: * means screw ==== means cooling vent. There are cards in a backplane behind these. Removing the screws allows access to the cards. ST1: Sticker one. says "Hewlett Packard" ST2: Sticker two. FCC rules stuff. ST3: Sticker three. Warranty sticker. ST4: Guess. says "Hewlett-packard. Product 2139A. Options O14. serial #. SW1: Switch. backup ena/dis PG1: Plug 1. 12-pin square plug. DG1: Diagram of the plug. EXT BAT + | MLT | +5M | -5 EXT BAT - | O1 | PON | +12 CMN | O2 | PFN | -12 SW2: on/off line PG2: Power Plug. That's all the back. Now for the drive! God, this is heavy! Too big to ascii, I'll have to describe it. It says "hp 7970E" Buttons a re LOAD, REWIND, ONLINE, RESET, 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF Connector is a small printer-plug looking thing (Like the plug on your printer, but smaller. I do have a scratch tape, how does one get the tape into these? Any info is appreciated. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 11:43:31 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:35 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191413.AA04940@world.std.com> Message-ID: > doesn't work, you need the narrower write head. What you will see is > the additive components of the signals where the head overlaps the tracks. Not at all. What I was planning on recording (on a totally blank disk) was : ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== Where the ==== is a burst of data and the centre-line of the desired track was along the middle of the 2 patterns. The read head output will only reply the 2 bursts at the same amplitude (assuming they're sufficiently separated, which will take some experimentation) if the head is following that centre-line. > The can be the sum or the signals, if not in sync there will also be > differences due the phases at a given instant. Also do not discount the There's no way the head will be reading bits of the 2 recorded tracks at the same time. So cancellation does not apply. > effects of the tunnel erase portion of the head slicing off the adjacent > offset tracks. Firstly I'll be gating the WG signal, so I'll not be erasing my carefully-recorded track, and secondly, I am probably using custom electronics so I can remove the erase signal altogether if it causes problems. > > Sometimes it's easier to swap a known board that troubleshoot. Hmm.... By the time I've found where the fault is (i.e. proved it to be on a certain board), I'm pretty close to the defective component anyway. The SA800 is not exactly difficult to trouble-shoot, and I do have the official service manual. > > > True but, there are used and then there are USED. The later being one thats > seen umpty years of 24x7. I know of only one UK supplier, and they want \pounds 295.00 (!) (nearly $500.00) per drive. And my experience of this company, based on a friend buying a 'used but good 5.25" drive' which came with a worn-out spindle motor, a fault on the speed control board and another on the logic board means that I'd rather not deal with them. Quite simply, it's cheaper and less hassle to rebuild what I have. > Allison -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 11:51:08 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191439.AA27928@world.std.com> Message-ID: > Nearly every system I have has been migrated toward 3.5" drives or up > scaled 5.25s where possible. Exceptions are the Vt180 where compatability I've added 5.25" 1.2Mbyte drives to a number of 8" systems (mainly so I can exchange disks with my PC), but I keep the 8" drive operational for a number of reasons : a) Most software kits for these machines come on 8" floppies b) The disks are a lot more reliable. I've had a lot more 5.25" disks fail than 8", and even more 3.5". I am talking about branded disks in correctly maintained drives, BTW c) The drives are easier to maintain. I've read the service manual for the SA800 and SA850 and also the Teac FD55-GFR (a typical 5.25" drive) and I know which I'd rather keep running. > The only other storage I keep around is the TU58 dectapeII as it's serial > and can be plugged into anything that can do RS232/423. At 256k a cart its > not big or fast. Those are rather fun. One day I must write the programs to drive it from my HP48 calculator... Acutally, is there any Linux/Unix code to talk to the drive out there anywhere (free..). It would be a reasonable way to transfer short programs from a PC to a PDP11 not in the same building. > > What I'd like to find out how to do is use the floppy interfaced tapes > for non-PC systems. These drives in the smaller storage sizes can be found > cheap and even new ones aren't too expensive. Isn't there a QIC standard for that? Last time I looked, the QIC standards were free (some were even on a web page), and it was legal to make copies of them. Just about the only thing that was illegal was distributing modified versions, which makes a lot of sense. > Allison -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 11:58:48 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A guess only : > > I have absolutely no idea. It's plenty large, though... > > There's two boxes. One is the drive, the other is ??? > The other is lighter than the drive. > I'll drag it in here first. > > The front panel on the box says: > HP 1000 A900 I suspect this is an HP1000-series processor. Exactly what it is depends on what cards are in it. > HEWLETT PACKARD. > > It appears to fit into a DEC rack... Standard 19" rack, I guess. A lot of stuff (computers, peripherals, test gear,etc) fits that standard rack. There are also (much rarer) wider racks for things that just can't fit into 19" - like big monitors. > It says "hp 7970E" I think that's a standard HP 9-track tape drive. > > Buttons a re LOAD, REWIND, ONLINE, RESET, 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF > Connector is a small printer-plug looking thing (Like the plug on your > printer, but smaller. If it's a 24 pin connector (12 pins on each side) then it's almost certainly HPIB/GPIB/IEEE-488 (all basically the same interface). HP used this _hardware standard_ on a lot of their peripherals including disk drives, tape drives, printers, test gear, etc. The same interface is available for many other machines from HP calculators (!) to large minis. A PC interface card is certainly made (by a number of companies, not just HP), but won't be cheap. > > I do have a scratch tape, how does one get the tape into these? Well, I've not used that particular drive, but if it's a manual loader, you open the front door, put the tape on the empty hub, thread it up (there's normally a diagram inside), close the door and press 'Load' If it's an autoloader (like the DEC TS-05) then you open the flap (you may need power-on to do this), put the tape in the slot, close the flap and press the load button. > > Any info is appreciated. > > > -tony From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Aug 19 08:19:02 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: References: <199708191439.AA27928@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199708191718.NAA29638@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! > > Nearly every system I have has been migrated toward 3.5" drives or up > > scaled 5.25s where possible. Exceptions are the Vt180 where compatability > > I've added 5.25" 1.2Mbyte drives to a number of 8" systems (mainly so I > can exchange disks with my PC), but I keep the 8" drive operational for a > number of reasons : > > a) Most software kits for these machines come on 8" floppies > > b) The disks are a lot more reliable. I've had a lot more 5.25" disks fail > than 8", and even more 3.5". I am talking about branded disks in correctly > maintained drives, BTW Tony, well, what's about the Fuji disks? I abused them and used it too much and they do last and keep data better. Dysan, Maxwell and lesser disks gets the bit rot. The good test is to view them through bright light and pick a very dark, uninform areas, if you see shades of spots or stripes of lighter and dark areas, they're flunked. My second choice is 3M but I wonder where they are still made. :) That's on 3.5" disks. > > c) The drives are easier to maintain. I've read the service manual for the > SA800 and SA850 and also the Teac FD55-GFR (a typical 5.25" drive) and I > know which I'd rather keep running. > > > The only other storage I keep around is the TU58 dectapeII as it's serial > > and can be plugged into anything that can do RS232/423. At 256k a cart its > > not big or fast. Jason D. From william at ans.net Tue Aug 19 12:27:40 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708191727.AA21104@interlock.ans.net> > I suspect this is an HP1000-series processor. Exactly what it is depends > on what cards are in it. There are still a bunch of these still in service, complete with switch registers and blinkey lights! I do not know who runs them, however. The newer models dumped the lights and switch register, much like PDP-11s. > Standard 19" rack, I guess. A lot of stuff (computers, peripherals, > test gear,etc) fits that standard rack. There are also (much rarer) wider > racks for things that just can't fit into 19" - like big monitors. Actually, 23" is quite common for telco equipment. Western Electric had a bunch of standards, all dating from the 1920's, thank goodness that only two survived. William Donzelli william@ans.net From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Tue Aug 19 12:28:55 1997 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:03:00 CDT." Message-ID: <199708191728.MAA14595@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Re the HP 1000 A900: From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Aug 19 12:22:45 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Floppie Follies In-Reply-To: <199708191718.NAA29638@mail.cgocable.net> References: <199708191439.AA27928@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970819132245.009e4700@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca said: >Hi! > >> > Nearly every system I have has been migrated toward 3.5" drives or up >> > scaled 5.25s where possible. Exceptions are the Vt180 where compatability Yessireebob, me to. I do a fair amt. of travelling, and I like the sturdier case of the 3.5" microfloppies. (tho, if I could find more 2" drives, I'd be _really_ happy then! ;-) >Tony, well, what's about the Fuji disks? I abused them and used it >too much and they do last and keep data better. Dysan, Maxwell and >lesser disks gets the bit rot. The good test is to view them through >bright light and pick a very dark, uninform areas, if you see shades >of spots or stripes of lighter and dark areas, they're flunked. >My second choice is 3M but I wonder where they are still made. :) Sure they are... AAMAF, 3M is doing such a large business in computer media they spun off a separate company to do it. It's called Imation, and their logo is a hand waving a wand, with lots of plusses, x's and o's (and prolly pixie dust as well) in the wake of the wand. Frankly, 3M/Imation are my favorite, as I've only had one fail on me (in any format) despite 15 years of use... and it was run over by a car. Speaking of Fuji, do they still make 2" media? Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Tue Aug 19 12:34:39 1997 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:51:08 BST." Message-ID: <199708191734.MAA14626@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Re: TU58 code for Unix The XINU version 6 distribution had a program called dd58 that would talk to TU58 drives. It also included a library called lib58.a that could be used to develop TU58 programs. I don't know if the most recent releases still have it, but if not, I might be able to dig up a copy. Brian L. Stuart Math/CS Dept, Rhodes College, Memphis, TN stuartb@acm.org http://www.mathcs.rhodes.edu/~stuart/ From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 12:47:59 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191734.MAA14626@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Message-ID: > Re: TU58 code for Unix > > The XINU version 6 distribution had a program called dd58 that would > talk to TU58 drives. It also included a library called lib58.a that So it does... How did I forget about that... > could be used to develop TU58 programs. I don't know if the most recent > releases still have it, but if not, I might be able to dig up a copy. > The version I pulled from the 'official' site earlier this year included it. I doubt very much that it's been removed since then. Now all I have to do is get it to compile on a linux box - from memory there's a couple of things that are very VAX-specific in the terminal I/O code. > Brian L. Stuart -tony From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 19 13:18:42 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: "Daniel A. Seagraves"'s message of Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:03:00 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199708191818.LAA16852@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Daniel A. Seagraves" writes: > The front panel on the box says: > HP 1000 A900 > HEWLETT PACKARD. Fairly late-model HP 1000, replaced by the A990 in 1991 I think. I don't know that much about them but think they are descended from the HP 2100 and 21MX processors used in earlier 1000s (and would like to find out more, so corrections are invited). What are the first four digits of the serial number? That will give you some idea of its age; first two digits are probably year less 1960, next two digits are week-of-year. > It says "hp 7970E" It is a 1600 BPI 9-track drive. Is yours in a lo-boy cabinet with the supply and takeup hubs side-by-side, or in the tall cabinet with supply mounted above takeup? Mine is a lo-boy but I have used both. > Buttons a re LOAD, REWIND, ONLINE, RESET, 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF > Connector is a small printer-plug looking thing (Like the plug on your > printer, but smaller. Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. > I do have a scratch tape, how does one get the tape into these? As Tony said, there should be a diagram that shows the tape path. Pop the lever in the center of the supply hub up, and slide your tape on. Leave the lever up for now; you will be pulling tape off the supply reel and if the hub were engaged you would have to turn it too. Pull the tape off the supply reel, threading it around the stationary post, then the tension arm, then the heads (lift the cover over the read/write head to thread the tape through), then the other tension arm, then the other stationary post, then onto the takeup reel. Hold the tape against the takeup reel -- stick your finger through the little hole -- and make a turn or two of the takeup reel to get the tape firmly held on the reel. Push the lever on the supply hub down to engage the supply reel. Now you can push LOAD to get the tape drive to scan for the load point. If it just keeps going and going then there is a problem with the light/sensor assembly. ONLINE puts the drive on-line. Won't work unless the tape is loaded. RESET is "stop what you're doing and take the drive offline". REWIND is "rewind to load point or 'til the tension arms lose tension because the tape came loose from the takeup reel". 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF switch the drive's unit number; OFF is effectively offline. Note that unit number may not have an obvious relation to the system's device name or number. I don't know much about RTE (the OS on the 1000s) but under MPE on classic 3000s it was a component of either the DRT number or the unit number, which were in turn referenced by the logical device number. > Any info is appreciated. Hope this helps, if you have more questions feel free to ask. -Frank McConnell From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 13:37:20 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: <199708191818.LAA16852@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across many (any?) BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them. > -Frank McConnell -tony From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Aug 19 15:00:56 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I purchased a batch of old micros which included 3 Apples, 1 ][E and two > that are not identified. The motherboards are longer than on the "E" and > extend under the keyboard. The keyboard has a white key labled upr and lwr > case, pwr. in the lower left corner, and the rear of the case has U shaped > cutouts instead of the type of openings on the "E" and "+". > I havent been able to find "Apple" on the case or motherboard but the > power supply seems identical to that in the "E" and "+". Can anyone suggest > what I have? Sounds a hell of a lot like a Franklin Ace 1000. Long motherboard, upr/lwr, U shape slots. I'll bet there's a rectangular impression with nothing in it on the front slope. The Ace had a metallic label that seems to have fallen off more often than not. --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Aug 19 15:05:57 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > > ^^^^^^^^ > > Why do I always parse this as "halitosis"? :-) > > Same reason I do. It's the closest string that's a familiar word. Feel sorry for the people I work with ;). I'm a marine biology student - almost all of my servers are named after invertebrate genera. It's my revenge for inheriting servers with names like bozo, bongo, and bossy. Ugh. --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 18:01:29 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oooh fun... so there's little chance of interfacing it to the 11/44? The drive appears to work - I stuck the scratch tape in it and loaded it. Played with the buttons. It loaded right. As for the computer, it apparently uses the drive. I have no cord, and no idea where to plug it in. Where's the console terminal? Mine has no switches, darn. From dhq at juno.com Tue Aug 19 18:50:42 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey References: Message-ID: <19970819.194952.6463.0.dhq@juno.com> Unfortunately it is an Odyssey 2; but it came with a pile of games. The Pong is still fun and it can run on batteries, and if I plug it into my 5 in. TV I'll have a portable video game to keep the grand kids busy! (What a concept, maybe it should be revived :). Regards, David Q. P.S. I know of an Odyssey, complete with overlays, pistol etc., but it is somewhere on the West coast of Florida and I've lost touch with the owner of it :( From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 19:34:28 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey In-Reply-To: <19970819.194952.6463.0.dhq@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, David H Quackenbush wrote: > Unfortunately it is an Odyssey 2; but it came with a pile of games. The > Pong is still fun and it can run on batteries, and if I plug it into my 5 > in. TV I'll have a portable video game to keep the grand kids busy! (What > a concept, maybe it should be revived :). Cool. The Oddyssey2 is nice. You might want to find out how rare the games you got with it are. There's a web page (don't know off the top of my head...e-mail me about it and I'll look in my bookmarks) that has rarity listings for every game ever made for every game system. > P.S. I know of an Odyssey, complete with overlays, pistol etc., but it > is somewhere on the West coast of Florida and I've lost touch with the > owner of it :( Oooh, track that sucker down. Mine unfortunately does not have the overlays but the guy who sold it to me is still looking. I picked mine up for $20. It's in OK shape. The original batteries were still in it when I got it which were probably about 20+ years old and leaked out all over the battery compartment and corroded the battery spring contacts, but it can be cleaned up. There were other accessories that came with it, including poker chips and play money. Six "carthridges" came with it as well. I also came across a lucky find in a thrift store a couple months back. I got, in the original box, the Odyssey Shooting Gallery, which is basically a light rifle (actually is a plastic toy rifle light gun), with some overlays. UNFORTUNATELY, it did not come with any carthridge, which I presume it came with. If someone knows otherwise please chime in. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Aug 19 20:34:46 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Drive Alignment (was: Multiple Topics...) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970819183645.32ef18c8@mail.crl.com> At 05:55 AM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). Something to mention is to make copies of disks created on drives you plan to realign before realigning them. That is, if drive A is out of alignment and disk A was created on Drive A, make a copy of disk A (in drive A) onto disk B in Drive B (where drive B is a known, well aligned drive.) Otherwise, when you get all your drives working fine, you won't be able to read any of the disks created when they were out of whack. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 19 22:05:04 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:37:20 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199708200305.UAA17263@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. > > It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that > connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across > many (any?) Any time I've seen that connector on HP gear it was for HP-IB. And the 7970s that aren't HP-IB don't have that connector. Instead I think they have a card-edge connector or something to mate with a card-edge connector (on the end of a long cable that you're supposed to drag back to the interface in the CPU cabinet). The 7970 is not a new drive; HP made and sold them for a number of years. The first HP 3000 I ever saw (a series II) had one, and that was in 1977. I'm pretty sure there was some way to hook it up to a 2100 (stand-alone, or in an instrument controller or 1000/2000 configuration) as well. The HP 3000 series II and series III did not use HP-IB. The first HP-IB 3000s were the series 30 and 33. When HP started shipping new HP-IB peripherals that were bigger/better/faster[1] they also had the "Starfish" for the series III. That was a small card cage mounted in its own 19" cabinet, reportedly due to UL certification requirements, which provided a GIC (General I/O Channel aka HP-IB interface) and somehow interfaced it to the series III. At a previous place of employment, we had a series III when I started. It eventually (1984) got upgraded to (box swapped for) a series 64, which supported HP-IB somewhat more directly. We had had a Starfish on the III, but had only used it for a 7933 disc -- the 7970E tape drives were hooked up to a MAGNETIC TAPE INTERFACE card in the III. Part of the upgrade was the removal of some interface electronics from the bottom of the "master" 7970E and its replacement with some new interface electronics that spoke HP-IB. There was a similar replacement for the 7925 disc drive too. > BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to > call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol > make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called > 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), > IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) > and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them. Doggone if I know. We always called them HP-IB connectors. So did the HP CEs. We were pretty much a 3000 shop with not much non-HP equipment outside of the modems and furniture, certainly nothing else that tried to use that connector. Well, we did for a while have a Univac 1004 RJE station, but we never tried to plug it into the 3000 and I can't remember ever trying to do much with it other than feed it paper when it ran out. -Frank McConnell [1] the ones I am thinking of are the 7933 disc drive (404MB washing machine), 7976A tape drive (6250BPI 9-track, streaming and start-stop, OEM'd from someone else (STC I think)), and 2680A laser printer; I think these were the only peripherals supported for connection via Starfish From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 19 23:26:18 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: <199708200305.UAA17263@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 19 Aug 1997, Frank McConnell wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. > > > > It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that > > connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across > > many (any?) > > Any time I've seen that connector on HP gear it was for HP-IB. And > the 7970s that aren't HP-IB don't have that connector. Instead I > think they have a card-edge connector or something to mate with a > card-edge connector (on the end of a long cable that you're supposed > to drag back to the interface in the CPU cabinet). > > The 7970 is not a new drive; HP made and sold them for a number of > years. The first HP 3000 I ever saw (a series II) had one, and that > was in 1977. I'm pretty sure there was some way to hook it up to a > 2100 (stand-alone, or in an instrument controller or 1000/2000 > configuration) as well. > > The HP 3000 series II and series III did not use HP-IB. The first > HP-IB 3000s were the series 30 and 33. When HP started shipping new > HP-IB peripherals that were bigger/better/faster[1] they also had the > "Starfish" for the series III. That was a small card cage mounted in > its own 19" cabinet, reportedly due to UL certification requirements, > which provided a GIC (General I/O Channel aka HP-IB interface) and > somehow interfaced it to the series III. > > At a previous place of employment, we had a series III when I started. > It eventually (1984) got upgraded to (box swapped for) a series 64, > which supported HP-IB somewhat more directly. We had had a Starfish > on the III, but had only used it for a 7933 disc -- the 7970E tape > drives were hooked up to a MAGNETIC TAPE INTERFACE card in the III. > Part of the upgrade was the removal of some interface electronics from > the bottom of the "master" 7970E and its replacement with some new > interface electronics that spoke HP-IB. There was a similar > replacement for the 7925 disc drive too. > > > BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to > > call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol > > make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called > > 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), > > IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) > > and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them. As I recall, they were introduced as Amphenol Blue(?) Ribbon connectors at the time of their introduction. That was the generic term. Centronics, HPIB (or GPIB), SCSI and others came. of course, from the application. But I believe the generic was Blue Ribbon or just Ribbon connectors. > Doggone if I know. We always called them HP-IB connectors. So did > the HP CEs. We were pretty much a 3000 shop with not much non-HP > equipment outside of the modems and furniture, certainly nothing else > that tried to use that connector. Well, we did for a while have a > Univac 1004 RJE station, but we never tried to plug it into the 3000 > and I can't remember ever trying to do much with it other than feed it > paper when it ran out. > > -Frank McConnell > > [1] the ones I am thinking of are the 7933 disc drive (404MB washing > machine), 7976A tape drive (6250BPI 9-track, streaming and > start-stop, OEM'd from someone else (STC I think)), and 2680A laser > printer; I think these were the only peripherals supported for > connection via Starfish > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 20 02:48:08 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: [re: Magnavox Odyssey] > Oooh, track that sucker down. Mine unfortunately does not have the > overlays but the guy who sold it to me is still looking. I picked mine > up for $20. It's in OK shape. The original batteries were still in it > when I got it which were probably about 20+ years old and leaked out all > over the battery compartment and corroded the battery spring contacts, > but it can be cleaned up. Ouch! The one I picked up is in pristine physical condition, though I still don't know if it works (haven't bothered to get all those damn 'C' cells for it yet). Frankly, it hardly looks used so maybe it doesn't work (that's a guideline I'm starting to develop for the C64 - in great shape = hardly used BECAUSE IT DIED YOUNG, but I might be wrong. ;) ) > There were other accessories that came with > it, including poker chips and play money. The poker chips with mine are still in the plastic, which is cool. I haven't checked to see if all of the playing cards are there. There were some dice with it as well. > Six "carthridges" came with it as well. If you can really call them cartridges, yeah. I've seen them called "wafers" which might be more apt. And multiple games use the same wafers, you just paste up a different overlay and change the rules, and the same little dots make a new game. :) > I also came across a lucky find in a thrift store a couple > months back. I got, in the original box, the Odyssey Shooting Gallery, > which is basically a light rifle (actually is a plastic toy rifle light > gun), with some overlays. Cool! > UNFORTUNATELY, it did not come with any > carthridge, which I presume it came with. If someone knows otherwise > please chime in. Unfortunately, I don't know. I'm just a happy idiot who happened to walk into the right place at the right time and pick up a pristine Odyssey system for $5 (Canadian), including "Instrument Inspection Card" and "Receive a free ODYSSEY game!" card, with only faint inklings of what it was. I'm not generally into game systems, but this thing was so weird I could NOT pass it up. The 1972 date on it helped me bring it home as well. Then I went out onto the 'net and found out what I had. :) I've never seen one of those light rifles, and if I do I'll be sure NOT to pass it up. I think someone in rec.games.video.classic will know if the light rifle came with wafers/cartridges or not. I think I read somewhere that there were 100,000 Odysseys manufactured. I wonder how many of those are now in landfill. :/ > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 20 03:20:36 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Oooh fun... so there's little chance of interfacing it to the 11/44? Well, there are GPIB (same thing as HPIB as near as darn-it) cards for the PDP11 Unibus (and Qbus for that matter) both from DEC (the IB-11 and IBV-11) and 3rd parties. But AFAIK there is no support for HP tape drives hung off such a card - certainly not for booting or installing an OS. > As for the computer, it apparently uses the drive. I have no cord, and no > idea where to plug it in. Where's the console terminal? Mine has no > switches, darn. Well, it probably connects via a custom HP cable (read: expensive) to one of the cards in the cardcage. That's what happens on a friends HP9000/735. Ditto for the console terminal. What cards do you have in there, and what markings do they have? Anything recognizable? -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 20 03:24:38 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Drive Alignment (was: Multiple Topics...) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970819183645.32ef18c8@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: > At 05:55 AM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: > > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > > Something to mention is to make copies of disks created on drives you plan > to realign before realigning them. That is, if drive A is out of alignment > and disk A was created on Drive A, make a copy of disk A (in drive A) onto > disk B in Drive B (where drive B is a known, well aligned drive.) Absolutely... And then you find a disk 6 months later that was recorded on the misaligned drive and for which you have no backup. Been there, done that... :-( This is the one time that the 'insert disk, move head to find points where read amplitude falls off, set midway between them' method is useful. You can often deliberately misalign a drive to read such a disk. I've though about making a set of drives (at leat 8" and 5.25") with calibrated head offset devices (probably micrometers linked to the stepper chassis). Then I can tweak them a little more easily to read defective disks. > Otherwise, when you get all your drives working fine, you won't be able to > read any of the disks created when they were out of whack. > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad -tony From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 20 00:42:29 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708200916.FAA03636@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:34:06 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: RE: What's an M7165? > Does anyone else find this hilariously funny? > > > ---------- > > From: Tim Shoppa > > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 1997 5:29 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: What's an M7165? > > > > > What's an M7165? > > > > One half of a KDA50. The other half is a M7164. > > > > Tim. > > > Yes , I giggled thru the rest of the ng posts, many of which are unintelligable to me. I keep hoping that enlightenment will miraculously happen. I have been monitoring this ng for a while and picking up snippets of info. It occurred to me that the PDP8/e/f/m maintenance manual (vol 1 } that I had acquired and kept since my course on dig. electronics in 83 because it had a beautiful description of the fetch sequence in processors might be of value in this group. If it's quite available "nevermind" ciao larry From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Aug 20 07:06:49 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970820080649.0068bbd4@mail.wincom.net> At 07:34 AM 8/19/97 -0400, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > > Thanks for the replies to my Apple? question. I think Bill Whitson called it, as the case matches his discription of the Franklin Ace 1000. The interesting thing is that I got another one yesterday, along with a Laser 128EX. I am somewhat official now as I joined the team that is trying to establish a science museum here (Windsor Ontario) so I have a logical reason for collecting computers and other odds and ends. Following someones advice, (Sams?) I put a little ad in our weekly paper on Sunday and have so far obtained fifteen, a lot of junk, but a Pet that I needed and the Apples. I also have leads on an Osborne and a PC Jr. and faint leads on a DEC Rainbow and some kind of Sun. Another phone call turned out to be from the fellow, now retired, who used to do the maintenance on the Basic 4 that is lurking in my garage. Cheers Charlie Fox From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Wed Aug 20 07:40:02 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? Message-ID: <199708200840_MC2-1DAE-E9EA@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them.< They are generically called "Centronics connectors" in the U.S., being 36 pin, 24 pin, or whatever. The HP connectors are called IEEE-488, since that is the standard they follow; never heard them called "Telco connectors" by HP or anyone else. Gil Parrish From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 20 07:54:22 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: PDP-8 docs Message-ID: <199708201254.AA11518@world.std.com> < Yes , I giggled thru the rest of the ng posts, many of which are Re: the 9-track thread on the HP 7970: Mention has been made that it seems to have an HPIB interface. I ran into the same thing with an HP7974 drive that I acquired from Teltone here in Washington state. However, I also found that the HPIB interface consisted of a removable cage with three cards and its own power supply. Once this subassembly was removed, the drive itself appeared to be a standard Pertec interface. I have yet to actually try it, but a pair of 50-pin card-edge connections sure look like Pertec to me. I will let the group know once I get a chance to actually try it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Aug 20 10:26:54 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track drive: What is it? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970820070135.00e7fb90@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 20, 97 07:01:35 am Message-ID: <9708201426.AA26897@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 815 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970820/6a70ef76/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 20 09:29:22 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track drive: What is it? In-Reply-To: <9708201426.AA26897@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > If it's two 50-pin connectors, it's a Pertec Formatted interface. > Lots of older drives have within their bowels yet another set > of cables: the Pertec Unformatted interface. This is three cables, > one carrying control signals, another carrying read data, another > carrying write data. > Which DOES interface to the 11! I'll go look. The front of the drive does open, it did that and knocked me in the shins... From kevan at heydon.org Wed Aug 20 11:25:46 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Lisa II Power supply wanted in Bay Area... Message-ID: <199708201625.RAA02399@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, I have been looking for a power supply for my Lisa II for some time now, but as Lisa seem to be very rare in the UK I have had no luck so far. I guess they are more common in the US, so I am putting out this email in the hope of finding someone who has a spare they can let me have. I know of someone who would be willing to transport one back from the Bay Area this weekend which would be real good because it would save a lot in shipping costs. Many thanks for listening... -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Aug 20 12:34:08 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > [re: Magnavox Odyssey] > > > Oooh, track that sucker down. Mine unfortunately does not have the > > overlays but the guy who sold it to me is still looking. I picked mine > > up for $20. It's in OK shape. The original batteries were still in it My Odyssey had original (or at least old) red Eveready transistor batteries in it, as well. Oddly enough, they still held a charge - around 1.1 volts each with no load. The internal resistance is quite high, though, so they're not good for much current. Any interested dry cell collectors out there? :) Opening up the Odyssey and taking a look inside is on my (ever-expanding) list of things to do. From what I have read, the Odyssey was designed several years before it was manufactured (1969?). At the time, even SSI TTL ICs were impractically expensive for use in a home game system; accordingly, the Odyssey is implemented in DTL using discrete transistors and diodes. Regarding the Odyssey cartridges/wafers: My brother-in-law remembers having a book many years ago on designing homebrew Odyssey games. Given the simplicity of the hardware (the wafers are apparently just connection patterns on a PC board, with the occasional resistor or diode), it shouldn't be too difficult to do. Desiging screen overlays and interesting new games that can be played on the Odyssey hardware may be more of a challenge. I've thought about sending in the "free game" card as well, just to see what would happen. Probably the same thing that happened when I sent in the "free program" card that came with my 3b1 - nothing. Of course, I don't imagine that the extra wafer is actually already there in /etc/fixes/ on the Odyssey. :) If anyone is interested in scans of the original overlays, let me know and I'll give scanning them a try. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 20 12:26:35 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track drive: What is it? In-Reply-To: <9708201426.AA26897@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > However, I also found that the HPIB interface consisted of a removable > > cage with three cards and its own power supply. Once this subassembly was > > removed, the drive itself appeared to be a standard Pertec interface. I > > have yet to actually try it, but a pair of 50-pin card-edge connections > > sure look like Pertec to me. > > If it's two 50-pin connectors, it's a Pertec Formatted interface. > Lots of older drives have within their bowels yet another set > of cables: the Pertec Unformatted interface. This is three cables, > one carrying control signals, another carrying read data, another > carrying write data. I can see 3 cables. One to motor control, the other 2 to 2 backplanes. I guess backplane 1 is read, 2 is write, as 2 has less boards. All are fully populated. What do Pertec Unformatted Interface cables look like? These look like IDE cables. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 20 13:14:14 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Chip Message-ID: Found a chip in my mailbox today: Z8400AB1 Is this the Z80 CPU? Not sure who put it there... Doesn't look toasted... No bent pins... It may be good! Does it have any useful purpose by itself? From dastar at crl.com Wed Aug 20 14:34:41 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970820080649.0068bbd4@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > Following someones advice, (Sams?) I put a little ad in our weekly paper > on Sunday and have so far obtained fifteen, a lot of junk, but a Pet that I > needed and the Apples. I also have leads on an Osborne and a PC Jr. and > faint leads on a DEC Rainbow and some kind of Sun. Good for you! It's the best way to find old computers. People come to you instead of you having to go out searching for them. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 20 17:47:48 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: <199708200840_MC2-1DAE-E9EA@compuserve.com> from "Gil Parrish" at Aug 20, 97 08:40:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 447 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970820/85f03d9f/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Aug 20 20:28:58 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970820183108.2a8f169e@ricochet.net> At 11:18 AM 8/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >Now you can push LOAD to get the tape drive to scan for the load >point. If it just keeps going and going then there is a problem with >the light/sensor assembly. It could also mean that you wound the tape onto the take-up reel past the load point, or that the tape didn't have one (i.e., it was cut/broken off.) Try re-loading the tape, after checking for the load point thingy (a little silver piece of something on the tape.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From rcini at msn.com Wed Aug 20 21:21:41 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems Message-ID: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> Well, today I decided to repair the power supply on the Percom floppy that I have for my pair of Model I's. Then, I decided to see if a complete keyboard-EI-floppy setup worked. Therein lies the problem... It seems like each CPU (a 4k and a 16k Level II) won't recognize either EI (a Rev 0 and Rev 1). Both EI's have 32k of RAM. All that I get on the screen is garbage. I'm turing the EI on first, then the CPU. I've also tried two types of EI cables, one buffered and one not. I can tell which cable goes to which EI because the floppy drive will initialize only with the right combo. It sounds like I have two bad EI's, but the thing that throws me is that the floppy interface performs a floppy reset. Does anyone have any clue?? Also, how does one refer to the floppy drive in a BASIC statement? For example, if I want to load a program, do I type LOAD "0:test.bas"? I have no manuals for these machines, and it's been a loooong time since I used one of these. Also, on an unrelated note, the Altair scans are in, but I'm waiting for Bill Whitson's address so that I can Fedex a tape to him. Does anyone have it?? Rich Cini/WUGNET -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970820/4bff5145/attachment.html From danjo at xnet.com Wed Aug 20 21:52:38 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:36 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Richard Cini wrote: > Well, today I decided to repair the power supply on the Percom floppy > that I have for my pair of Model I's. Then, I decided to see if a > complete keyboard-EI-floppy setup worked. Therein lies the problem... Well FIRST I want to say - this is a Classic Computer Group - I don't want to see ANY MORE HTML Email! Especially off a Winders Machine! 8-) 8-) 8-) > It seems like each CPU (a 4k and a 16k Level II) won't recognize either > EI (a Rev 0 and Rev 1). Both EI's have 32k of RAM. All that I get on the > screen is garbage. I'm turing the EI on first, then the CPU. I've also > tried two types of EI cables, one buffered and one not. I can tell which > cable goes to which EI because the floppy drive will initialize only > with the right combo. I think you have to hold down the Break Key when you turn on the Keyboard/CPU. That will get you into BASIC. > It sounds like I have two bad EI's, but the thing that throws me is that > the floppy interface performs a floppy reset. Could be just a power on reset. > Does anyone have any clue?? Also, how does one refer to the floppy drive > in a BASIC statement? For example, if I want to load a program, do I > type LOAD "0:test.bas"? I have no manuals for these machines, and it's > been a loooong time since I used one of these. Well, it has to boot into DOS first then - I don't remember - 8-) I would have to look it up. > Also, on an unrelated note, the Altair scans are in, but I'm waiting for > Bill Whitson's address so that I can Fedex a tape to him. Does anyone > have it?? Ask him 8-) BC From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Wed Aug 20 22:00:44 1997 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems Message-ID: Rich, Hmmm... let's see if I understand you correctly. You have a TRS-80 Model I with EI and floppy drive and when you turn the system on, the screen fills with random garbage? I have one sitting here in my office and that appears to be normal behavior if there is no bootable disk in drive 0 when the computer is turned on or reset. Try holding down the BREAK key and hitting reset button to enter ROM BASIC. As I recall, if the EI is connected then the system checks the BREAK key and jumps to BASIC if it's pressed, otherwise it reads the first sector from the disk and executes it. All this happens before video RAM is initialized so the screen is filled with trash. Hope this helps, - Doug From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 21 01:36:48 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: PDP-8 docs In-Reply-To: <199708201254.AA11518@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199708211009.GAA23686@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:54:22 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: PDP-8 docs > > that is an interesting doc. While it may have been common at one time > may simply were tossed making them scarce (or still on a shelf somewhere). > > I'd be interested as I still like hacking with PDP-8s. > > Allison > > I want to keep the manual but what I could possibly do if your interested is photocopy it and send it by snail-mail ( I dont have a scanner and the resultant file would be too large anyway) . ciao larry From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Aug 20 16:22:55 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Maybe not here-floppy for Toshiba Message-ID: I know that this really doesn't belong here, but in some circles, the old Toshiba laptop that I have may be considered a classic! Anyway, I'm looking for help finding an internal floppy drive for my Toshiba 3100/20 laptop. It's a portable, non-battery Red plasma laptop, with a messed-up 720k floppy drive. Does anyone know where I can get one of these. Toshiba want's over $150 for one, and I won't pay that for a crappy 720k drive on a free machine. Any leads appreciated! Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From gram at cnct.com Thu Aug 21 08:53:20 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Richard Cini wrote: > It seems like each CPU (a 4k and a 16k Level II) won't recognize = > either EI (a Rev 0 and Rev 1). Both EI's have 32k of RAM. All that I get = > on the screen is garbage. I'm turing the EI on first, then the CPU. I've = > also tried two types of EI cables, one buffered and one not. I can tell = > which cable goes to which EI because the floppy drive will initialize = > only with the right combo. You've already been given the message concerning the BREAK-RESET on power-up. I thought I'd mention that that should work fine with the 16k CPU. The 4k CPU won't recognize the RAM in the EI - the self test will notice that there's nothing past 4k and not look further. You could write a program to _manually_ initialize the EI memory and poke values into it, but BASIC can't see it. About all an EI gives to a 4k CPU is a parallel port and an extra cassette port -- TRSDOS (or any of the alternates) sure won't fit. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Thu Aug 21 08:41:47 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Pertec cabling Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970821064147.00e72b10@mail.wizards.net> I can't speak for the 7970, but I can tell you that Pertec formatted connections are usually a pair of 50-pin (25 to each side) PC edge paddles. I've seen a few (very few!) devices, specifically an old Unibus tape controller, where one connection was a Berg 50-pin header and the other was an edge paddle. From your description, it sounds as though the drive may not have its own formatter built in, outside of the HPIB interface section. I could, however, be mistaken (read: I'd need to see the drive). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Aug 21 09:21:14 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970821064147.00e72b10@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: Is there Pertec cards for PCs? I'd love to connect this to our SCO box, I have a tape image I'd like on the 9-track. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 10:40:55 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 21, 97 09:21:14 am Message-ID: <9708211440.AA01766@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 815 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/8aba1405/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Aug 21 10:48:30 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Harris flyback transformers for H192 terminals:FS Message-ID: My boss is getting rid of a bunch of these. New and used. $35 apiece new, the used ones are $10. He's trying to clean out the back room. Can anyone use these? We have around 50 new, and 500 used ones. From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Aug 21 12:02:06 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: Howdy: This last weekend I picked up a Commodore 64-C complete with a 1541 disk drive and a 1541 ][ drive, about 6,000 games on 400 disks, printer, manuals, Vic disk drive, tons of cart games, etc., etc.... all for $30. Anyway, here's my question: I had never had a C-64c before and right after I picked this one up wandered over to another place and saw something that looked similar to it. It wasn't label Comodore or anything, but did have the C= key on the keyboard. The keyboard was identical to the C-64c I have except just above the keyboard the ======== (lines, vent, whatever) doesn't go all the way across. On either side of this vent, whatever, there are little 'bays' I guess that you might expect a label(s) to fit into. Although there are none. On the back all it says is manufactured is southern Australia. Could anyone please let me info. on this. Also, does anyone know whwere to find a mouse for the C-64c that will work with the Geos software I have or other. Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Aug 21 09:13:37 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: 7-pin VIC PS Connector Message-ID: Is the 7-pin power connector on certain VIC-20's the same as the power supply on the C64?? I just got a couple VIC's of this type with no power supplies. TIA! +============================================+ | Rich Cini/WUGNET | +============================================+ From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 21 12:18:35 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > I picked this one up wandered over to another place and saw something that > looked similar to it. It wasn't label Comodore or anything, but did have > the C= key on the keyboard. The keyboard was identical to the C-64c I have > except just above the keyboard the ======== (lines, vent, whatever) > doesn't go all the way across. On either side of this vent, whatever, > there are little 'bays' I guess that you might expect a label(s) to fit > into. Although there are none. On the back all it says is manufactured is Sounds like you found the same thing I did and asked about several weeks ago. Its just a commodore 64 in an upgraded case you could buy to make it look like the 64C. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 13:32:42 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: <9708211440.AA01766@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 21, 97 07:40:55 am Message-ID: <9708211732.AA00809@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/a05841d7/attachment.ksh From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 21 12:28:55 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: 7-pin VIC PS Connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Is the 7-pin power connector on certain VIC-20's the same as the power supply > on the C64?? I just got a couple VIC's of this type with no power supplies. As far as I know, yes, as I think I've interchanged power supplies on several oocasions and they always worked. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Aug 21 13:09:30 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: DEC DOC LESS Message-ID: <19970821110930.0462ec7f.in@mail.pressstart.com> I dug these boards out of a closet last night to find enough boards to get an H-11 up and running. I was wondering if any of the DEC experts out there could identify the purpose for any of these boards.(Names come from whats written on each board) They all appear to be Q bus. M7940 or M7946 RXV11 LSI 11 Interface (Half width) I may have written down the wrong board number here. This, I'm 90% sure is the serial interface board I'll need to connect a terminal to the system. At least it looks like one I had on my LSI-11 many moons ago. If it is, I sure could use the pin-out for the connector and baud rate settings. M8340 Decoder and Step Counter (Full width) M8341 Multiplexers and Timing Generator (Full width) These two boards are linked togather with a connector across the top of the boards. M8639 RDRX Disk Controller (Full width) Is this a hard drive or floppy controller and if its a floppy controller, is it single or double density? M7957 Asyn Mux (Full width) M4002 ? (Half width) M8189 KDF 11-B (Full width) This appears to be a processor board with only 3 of the 5 sockets filled. M8043 ? (Half width) I have the processor board covered. I have about half a dozen M7264 LSI-11 processor boards. But, I could also use a list of commands for the resident monitor. Damn, I can't even remember what it's called. Thanks for any help, ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer (PSX and Saturn video games) Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 14:27:50 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: DEC DOC LESS In-Reply-To: <19970821110930.0462ec7f.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Aug 21, 97 11:09:30 am Message-ID: <9708211827.AA03428@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2253 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/29df60ae/attachment.ksh From impeesa at arrakis.es Thu Aug 21 10:23:57 1997 From: impeesa at arrakis.es (Sergio Izquierdo García) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Chip References: Message-ID: <33FC5D8D.7A54@arrakis.es> Hi, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > Found a chip in my mailbox today: Z8400AB1 > Is this the Z80 CPU? > In my Toshiba 8-bit Data Book I can read: Z84C00AP Z84C00AT Z80 CPU @ 4 MHz Z84C00AP-6 Z84C00AM-6 Z84C00AT-6 Z80 CPU @ 6 MHz Z84C00AP-8 Z84C00AM-8 Z84C00AT-8 Z80 CPU @ 8 MHz I hope this can help. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garc?a mailto:impeesa@arrakis.es From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Aug 21 14:33:31 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Pertec cabling In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970821064147.00e72b10@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Bruce Lane wrote: > I can't speak for the 7970, but I can tell you that Pertec formatted > connections are usually a pair of 50-pin (25 to each side) PC edge paddles. > I've seen a few (very few!) devices, specifically an old Unibus tape > controller, where one connection was a Berg 50-pin header and the other was > an edge paddle. > > From your description, it sounds as though the drive may not have its > own formatter built in, outside of the HPIB interface section. I could, > however, be mistaken (read: I'd need to see the drive). > I wanted to avoid this, but it looks like I get to remove the GPIB boards to look! Lemme go pull the drive apart... The GPIB interface boards look easy to remove. They were... Coming from the cards are 3 50-pin ribbon cables. One to motor control, one to the write electronics, and one to the read electronics. Pertec Unformatted. This means I need a TM02 to Pertec board in the 11, and a Pertec formatter in the drive. Is that correct? Which boards do Pertec to TM02 in the 11? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 15:59:31 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Pertec cabling In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 21, 97 02:33:31 pm Message-ID: <9708211959.AA03840@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/163c6728/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 21 15:15:12 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: DEC DOC LESS Message-ID: <199708212015.AA28799@world.std.com> @00001/ 02010 @ Entering data.... @00000/ 12345 001040 open a location, it's contents are displayed, enter new contents, CR to close or LF key to advance to next. @P when typed at the @ (monitor prompt) the cpu will continue execution at the current address (assuming there were no errors to cause a monitor trap). $ or R Open a register for display or change. $S or RS opens the processor status register. This should help. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 21 15:20:59 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: uVAX 2 in uk Message-ID: <199708212020.AA04326@world.std.com> Cross posted without permission but considering all... Please can a UK person rescue this? That is a very nice MV-II system. from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 21, 97 12:59:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/bd28328a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 21 16:02:17 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> from "Richard Cini" at Aug 20, 97 10:21:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/f6bc216c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 21 16:13:24 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: <9708211440.AA01766@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 21, 97 07:40:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/8f4bdb45/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 21 16:47:49 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708212205.PAA23029@mx3.u.washington.edu> > Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm > assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the > jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you > tell me what they are? Thanks. The 5150 (i.e. the PC) has 2 switchblocks on the motherboard. The one nearest the power supply Block 2) controls the amount of memory addressed: Mem Switch number (KB) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ------------------------------------- 16 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 32 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 48 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 64 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 96 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 128 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 160 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 192 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 224 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 256 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 288 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 320 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 352 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 384 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 416 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 448 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 480 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 512 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 544 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 576 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 608 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 640 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0=Off 1=On Switch block 1 is farther from the power supply Switch 1 -- PC -- 0=Boot from Floppy 1=Do not boot from floppy XT -- 0=Normal POST (power On Self Test) 1=Continuous POST (i.e., won't boot) Switch 2 -- 0=Math coprocessor installed 1=Math coprocessor not installed Switches 3-4 -- Filled memory banks (on motherboard) 0 0 =All 4 banks 1 0 = Banks 0, 1, and 2 0 1 = Banks 0 and 1 1 1 = Bank 0 only Switches 5-6 -- Video Adapter 0 0 = Monochrome (MDA) or Hercules with no onboard BIOS 0 1 = Color (CGA) 40 chars x 25 lines 1 0 = CGA 80 chars x 25 lines 1 1 = Video Adapter w/ onboard BIOS Note that the PC will support a monochrome adapter at the same time as another type. Switches 7-8 -- Floppy Drives 1 1 = 1 Floppy Drive 0 1 = 2 FDD 1 0 = 3 FDD 0 0 = 4 FDD Hard drive is taken care of by the adapter card. Please e-mail me with any other questions. manney@nwohio.com From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Thu Aug 21 20:33:17 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: RESCUE NEEDED! Decent MicroVAXen in UK!!! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970821183317.00e7d940@mail.wizards.net> Heads up to our UK readers! Fellow's got a decent MicroVAX system that sounds like it would be free for the picking up. Heck, I'd pick it up if I were in the UK... If you can help, PLEASE get in contact with this fellow post-haste. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:57:09 +0100 To: port-vax@netbsd.org From: Robin Birch Subject: uVAX 2 in uk X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03b Sender: port-vax-owner@NetBSD.ORG Delivered-To: port-vax@NetBSD.ORG Dear All, A week or so ago I advertised a uVAX 2 with 2*RA81, TK50, 8MByte, KDA50 offers please Nobody replied, does this mean that nobody wants it and I've got to throw it away or does some one want to give this box a home. Offers please, buyer collects. Robin Robin Birch robin@falstaf.demon.co.uk M1ASU Old computers and radios always welcome -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From danjo at xnet.com Thu Aug 21 20:36:25 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tony Duell wrote: > > Does anyone have any clue?? Also, how does one refer to the floppy = > > It sounds like it might be working. It's been a long time since I booted my > Model 1, but from memory, if the ROM basic detects a disk controller, it > attempts to boot from drive 0, and hangs if it can't do so. Also! Remember that the last drive in the chain must be the model 1160 as it is the one with the terminator! If you don't have an 1160 it may not boot at ALL. If you have both, the first drive (I think) is always drive 0 and that is where the boot disk should go. BC From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Aug 21 20:50:54 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone happen to remember a very old 'arcade game' that foes something like this. I remember playing this in an airport probably 10 years ago, although the game must have been older. It was encased it a type of stand-up motorcycle. I remember it as being red with those sparkly flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and white game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I also remember you only had to hit the coin slot to get it to play. Does anyone know what this was called or any other memories fo this? Thanks a ton, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 21 17:31:13 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: <199708220204.WAA13445@smtp.interlog.com> . Also, does > anyone know whwere to find a mouse for the C-64c that will work with the > Geos software I have or other. > > Thanks, > > CORD > I've been trying to find one myself for a while. As a workaround you can use a joystick, if you configure it with the arrow keys. ciao larry From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 21 21:28:48 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205EC2563@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> If you jumped buses, it was Atari Stunt Cycle (1976). Basically a clone of Atari Night Driver (http://www.pipeline.com/~jhardie/gallery/coinop/nightdrv.jpg), which I believe owns the title as the original "black & white dots" driving game. I don't recall what Atari's earlier entry (the first driving game) called Gran Trak looked like. Another well-known example was 280ZZZAP. Kai > ---------- > From: Cord Coslor > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 1997 6:50 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Old arcade game? > > Does anyone happen to remember a very old 'arcade game' that foes > something like this. I remember playing this in an airport probably 10 > years ago, although the game must have been older. It was encased it a > type of stand-up motorcycle. I remember it as being red with those > sparkly > flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and > white > game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the > road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I > also > remember you only had to hit the coin slot to get it to play. > > Does anyone know what this was called or any other memories fo this? > > Thanks a ton, > > CORD > > //*=================================================================== > ==++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, > NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu > 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector > || > || Autograph collector > || > ++==================================================================== > =*// > > From indavis at juno.com Thu Aug 21 21:39:53 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? References: Message-ID: <19970821.214132.9998.1.indavis@juno.com> On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Cord Coslor writes: >Does anyone happen to remember a very old 'arcade game' that foes >something like this. I remember playing this in an airport probably 10 >years ago, although the game must have been older. It was encased it a >type of stand-up motorcycle. I remember it as being red with those >sparkly >flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and >white >game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the >road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I >also >remember you only had to hit the coin slot to get it to play. > >Does anyone know what this was called or any other memories fo this? > Maybe Stunt Cycle by Atari? Just a guess. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 22 00:36:38 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: >southern Australia. Could anyone please let me info. on this. Also, does >anyone know whwere to find a mouse for the C-64c that will work with the >Geos software I have or other. You might try Paxtron, Corp. http://www.paxtron.com they've got various parts and accessories for Commodore computers. For example you can get new third-party replacement power supplies from them. I didn't find them to be very knowledgable, but they have fairly decent prices compared to their competitors. If you need anything out of the ordinary I wouldn't recommend them, but for normal stuff their OK. I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Fri Aug 22 00:50:32 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though > since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the > 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the > Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take > Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. > > Zane I've tried using Amiga mice on Commodore 8-bits some time ago and don't think I had any luck, but I could be wrong. As for mice, I believe CMD still sells 1351 clones but if your patient, I may be throwing my whole collection/mess of computer stuff up for sale and I've got about 5 mice for 8-bitters. LeS more@crazy.rutgers.edu From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 22 03:41:22 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though > since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the > 64. An Amiga mouse will *NOT* work. In fact, I think if you plug an Amiga mouse into the C64, it won't power up. I tried it once, got scared, and didn't try it again. :) (Actually, my Action Replay cartridge menu came up, but wouldn't let me leave the cartridge menu.) I haven't tried plugging my C64's mouse into my Amiga to see what happens. > Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the > Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take > Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. Atari and Amiga mice aren't interchangable (though some mice have a switch on them to select Atari or Amiga), but I've HEARD (note that this is hearsay and not fact) that Atari mice will work on the C64. I don't have an ST, so I can't test that. BTW, it's the Commodore 1351 mouse that the GEOS user would want. The 1350 is just a joystick in mouse's clothing. I've actually got two CBM 1351 mice, but one of them has the jitters and it's already promised to a friend if I ever get around to fixing it (dead capacitor?). Another friend of mine has one as well (I got it for him at a garage sale) so they seem to be easily available. And yes, I DO know people who still use the C64 as their only computer. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Fri Aug 22 05:38:55 1997 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 Message-ID: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> After all the discussion here recently about collecting PDP11's I have located one which I intend negotiating for. I haven't actually seen it yet. It is a PDP11/15, a model number that I haven't seem mentioned. Is there a listing somewhere on the web that describes the various models as there is for PDP8's ? This one apparently dates from about 1970, and is probably incomplete. There was talk of a rack, the PDP11/15 itself, some RKO5 disk drives and some boxes labelled PDP11/10 which may be other computers. There is no other IO device other than front panel switches. Could this equipment be used with a more recent terminal? I have no chance of finding a card reader or teletype but have access to several VT220's. From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Aug 22 05:45:23 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: 7-pin VIC PS Connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970822064523.006b81a0@mail.wincom.net> At 02:13 PM 8/21/97 UT, you wrote: >Is the 7-pin power connector on certain VIC-20's the same as the power supply >on the C64?? I just got a couple VIC's of this type with no power supplies. > >TIA! > >+============================================+ >| Rich Cini/WUGNET >| >+============================================+ > > Yes, I used the same power supply on both Vics and C-64s on Monday with no problem. Charlie Fox From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Aug 22 07:38:06 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: FW: Tape drives available Message-ID: <33fe87ac.807614838@mail.wizards.net> If any of you have need of a very decent 525 MB SCSI tape drive, check with this fellow. This is an excellent price for what he describes, though he does not appear to be aware that DC6525 tapes exist. ;-) -=-=- -=-=- I have the following for sale: Archive Viper 2525 25583 Rev 002 SCSI tape backup units. Comes in external enclosure with Unisys Tape Streamer marked on it. Uses DC-6150 (150 MB uncompressed) and DC-6250 (250 MB uncompressed) tapes. Tested with Novastor Tape Backup and Cheyenne Tape Backup and Seagate Backup Exec. Novastor has software compression to double capacity. Works great. The unit has a SCSI selector switch and two large 50 pin SCSI connectors on back of unit. $50 + shipping. Thanks, James (jevans2@sisna.com) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Aug 22 08:16:24 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Anyone ever? Message-ID: <199708221314.IAA21049@sunflower.com> Anyone ever run STiK on an ATARI ST? I have it up and it works, but I can't seem to get a DNS resolution, If i manually put in IP's its works and connects, say to IRC. But I can't get it to resolve names against IP's I have the entries in Default.cfg that the docs SAY that works, but it dosn't appear to. Line is NAMESERVER x.x.x.x and NAMESERVER0 x.x.x.x obviously, in my configuration I have the ip's for our nameservers. From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 22 09:19:55 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Brett wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tony Duell wrote: > > It sounds like it might be working. It's been a long time since I booted my > > Model 1, but from memory, if the ROM basic detects a disk controller, it > > attempts to boot from drive 0, and hangs if it can't do so. > Also! Remember that the last drive in the chain must be the model 1160 > as it is the one with the terminator! If you don't have an 1160 it may not > boot at ALL. If you have both, the first drive (I think) is always drive 0 > and that is where the boot disk should go. I've run enough Mod I systems with no termination, with multiple, the things aren't picky. The only reason to buy a 26-1160 was to get the DOS and documentation, otherwise you could save $100 and get a 26-1161 and if you were worried about it you could go next door to the regular Radio Shack (my RSCC was adjacent) and buy a terminator for $.99. Nobody that I knew ever bought two 26-1160 drives. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 21 17:01:13 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708221403.HAA21663@mx4.u.washington.edu> > > > For Switch #1: > > For Switch #2 (some obscure combos not typed in) > > It seems to me that one of the sacred switches will put the machine into > an endless loop of reboots - just after the self tests, etc., the machine > would boot again. > > I did not know about this, and had a machine that had this "problem". A > trip to the library solved it. You guys may be talking about Switch 1-1 -- which, for an XT, will do this. Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t 386.) I'd like to add an 8086 motherboard to my collection...anyone have one? From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 21 16:52:58 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708221404.HAA19794@mx5.u.washington.edu> Um...not quite. Please see my post. ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: RE: Computers (fwd) > Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 9:30 PM > > >From the handy "Programmer's PC Sourcebook" by Thom Hogan, Microsoft > Press, ISBN 1-55615-321-X: > > For Switch #1: > > Switch 1: number of drives, ON=drives installed, OFF=no drives (see > switch 7/8) > Switch 2: Not used, must be ON > Switch 3 & 4: Memory on system board > ON ON = 16K (PC1) or 64K (PC2) > OFF ON = 32K (PC1) or 128K (PC2) > ON OFF = 48K (PC1) or 192K (PC2) > OFF OFF = 64K (PC1) or 256K (PC2) > Switch 5 & 6: Display adapter > ON ON = no adapter > OFF ON = CGA 40 > ON OFF = CGA 80 > OFF OFF = MDA or >1 adapter > Switch 7 & 8: Floppy drives > ON ON = 1 drive > OFF ON = 2 drives > ON OFF = 3 drives > OFF OFF = 4 drives > > For Switch #2 (some obscure combos not typed in) > Switches 1-5: Memory Installed > ON ON ON ON ON = 16-64K (Switches 3 & 4 control total memory) > OFF ON ON ON = 96K (for this and below switches 3 & 4 should be OFF) > ON OFF ON ON ON = 128K > ON OFF OFF ON ON = 256K > ON ON ON OFF ON = 320K > ON OFF ON OFF ON = 384K > ON OFF OFF OFF ON = 512K > ON OFF ON ON OFF = 640K > Switches 6-8: Not Used, must be OFF (switch 7 reserved for 8087 on PC2) > > Kai From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 22 09:44:33 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199708221403.HAA21663@mx4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, PG Manney wrote: > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t > 386.) K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 09:35:51 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, PG Manney wrote: > > > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. > > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even > > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t > > 386.) > > K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} It took 45 minutes to BOOT on my 386SX/25, because I only has 2 meg of ram. After I killed a few gettys, it worked just fine. It took about 2 hours to install. So, on an 8-bit bus, and at less spped, I'd say 2-3 hours for a medium install. Maybe. Been a while since I installed it, I never had to reinstall. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 22 15:39:44 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 Message-ID: <9707228722.AA872290046@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Since no-one seems to have answered this, I shall put my bit in. I am no PDP expert, though. > After all the discussion here recently about collecting PDP11's I have > located one which I intend negotiating for. I haven't actually seen it yet. > > It is a PDP11/15, a model number that I haven't seem mentioned. Is there a > listing somewhere on the web that describes the various models as there is > for PDP8's ? The 11/15 and 11/20 were two variants of the original PDP11 CPU, which came out in 1970 (I think). The processor itself may have been called the KA11, but I am not sure of this. The difference between them was system configuration, AFAIK. > This one apparently dates from about 1970, and is probably incomplete. > There was talk of a rack, the PDP11/15 itself, some RKO5 disk drives and > some boxes labelled PDP11/10 which may be other computers. There is no > other IO device other than front panel switches. PDP 11/10 is usually an 11/05 variant (again the difference is configuration of the system), dating from c. 1974 (and full of TTL - 74XX device codes and 74XX date codes can be very confusing). But I have heard rumours of an 11/15 variant of that name. No doubt Allison, Tim or Tony will tell you all about this. One day I shall get my 11/10 working... > Could this equipment be used with a more recent terminal? I have no chance > of finding a card reader or teletype but have access to several VT220's. AFAIK it will require a current loop interface. Some quite late terminals had this feature - I use something called a Westward Graphics Terminal. Philip. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 22 10:45:00 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> from "Olminkhof" at Aug 22, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: <9708221445.AA04890@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 487 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970822/34653629/attachment.ksh From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 22 10:24:10 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: hhc eproms (fwd) Message-ID: Here's something from our friend Mike. Please send all replies to him. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1@aol.com To: dastar@crl.com Subject: hhc eproms Sam, I didn't hear from you before so can you let me know if there is going to be any need for HHC eproms? I am sitting on approx. 5000 of them which I have received a salvage offer of $1.25/lb for and I'm probably going to take,but I don't want to put anyone in a position where they are requested but now not available like before with the HHC's.So I would appreciate you letting me know. Thanks Mike From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 22 10:53:11 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708221553.AA21911@world.std.com> <> > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coproces <> > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Ev <> > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s <> > 386.) <> <> K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} I have an xt class machine with an inboard386 and linux is not possible as it only has 1meg of ram and the expansion is off the inboard. FYI the inboard386 was an 386SX/16 compared the the v20 at 4.77mhz it's fast! Allison From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 14:04:04 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: RA81 problem found! Message-ID: Ha! Got it! The drive READY light had one of the little posts broken off, that's why it never booted! It was drive 1! But I have to wait till I'm off the clock & my boss leaves before I can test the theory... From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Aug 22 14:20:48 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: 8" disk alignment Message-ID: <19970822122048.09cac3a5.in@mail.pressstart.com> > Tony Duell said: >5.25" and 3.5" alignment disks are still available (but expect to pay $100 >a time...). I can't find 3" (Amstrad, etc) or 8" alignment disks anywhere, >alas... I don't know if anyone's responded to this yet. (I'm behind in my mail again). But you might try Accurite Technologies Inc. here in the bay area. They're at http://www.accurite.com When I talked to them about a year ago, they said they believe that they are the only ones in the world still making 8" alignment disks. They sell both 8" analog alignment diskettes and 8" digital diagnostic diskettes. Don't quote me on this but, I seem to remember them saying that the 8" diskettes were $65 each. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 22 14:07:34 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: hhc eproms (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199708221624.AA19136@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > < I didn't hear from you before so can you let me know if there is going > > At that price I'll consider a few pounds+ shipping. Di I contact him > direct? Is he willing for say do a two pound package for say $5 +shipping? > to multiple respondents or would he like to see 10 pound blocks? I'd be > willing to do say 10# if I had others willing to pay say 10-15% over my cost > for packing materials for smaller distributions. This intent is that I'd > want to recoup my cost. I should've posted his e-mail address for replies. Sorry. He's at Mikeooo1@aol.com. Talk to him directly about working out a bulk deal. I'm sure he'd be happy to work something out. I have no involvment in the deal. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Aug 22 16:39:57 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:47:48 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199708222139.OAA09837@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell writes: > [IEEE488/centronics/whatever connectors] > >From the HP-97S user manual (I have one on loan for a demonstration in a > few weeks...) > > 'Your peripheral device is connected to the HP-97S interface with a > standard 25-pair telephone connector (Amphenol 57-30500 or equivalent)' Ah. Yes, we used to call the 50-pin version a telephone or telco connector because, well, that's where we used to find most of them: going to a 5-line office phone, or on the side of a punch-block. But HP-IB and Centronics printer connectors didn't have enough pins to be called telco connectors. Besides, HP-IB used bigger, stackable screws, and Centronics printer connectors had those ears. It wasn't 'til I saw the 50-pin Centronicsish SCSI connector that I started to get confused. -Frank McConnell From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 17:03:48 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Darn! Darn darn darn! RA81 problems continue: No O/S? Message-ID: I plugged everything up, and fired her up. b du and b du0 hit the harddisk for a second, then it returns to the ODT prompt. Does this mean no O/S? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 17:20:48 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Wait! Crossed cable! It booted, it booted! Message-ID: It booted! It's up! I have no idea what to do! And it IS RSTS/E! From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Aug 22 18:37:13 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970822163928.7e5f5666@ricochet.net> At 08:50 PM 8/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and white >game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the >road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I also There was a game called "Night Driver" that was similar. It too was simple graphically, with a pair of dotted(?) lines scrolling downward to indicate the edge of the road. It would bend right and left -- curves -- and you had to steer between them. Had a real steering wheel and an accellerator pedal, possibly a high-low gear shift as well. I know there was a sit-down model, there may have been a stand-up version as well. It was incredibly simple, especially compared to some of the high-end, need-a-pentium-and-3d-video-card games out today, but it was actually a lot of fun. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 22 17:44:56 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> from "Olminkhof" at Aug 22, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1859 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970822/6fea8007/attachment.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 16:21:32 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: References: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> from "Olminkhof" at Aug 22, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: <199708230120.VAA25197@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > > I believe the 11/15 is the OEM version of the 11/20 - the first ever > PDP11. Don't worry about the 'OEM' bit - the only difference seems to > have been what was included when you ordered the machine from DEC. Both > versions could take the same peripherals, etc. > > > > > This one apparently dates from about 1970, and is probably incomplete. > > There was talk of a rack, the PDP11/15 itself, some RKO5 disk drives and > > An RK05 is a front-loading 2.5Mbyte (!) hard disk. I find them pretty solid > and reliable (apart from the blower fans, which seem to break down and > catch fire!), and have no problems maintaining them. Even head Really what kind of "flaming" blower are you talkign about? That one that sounded like jet? > replacements are possible. Really? I did not know that new heads can be had. Nice! Is that either internal or removeable that uses same DECPACK cartidge? And to hook up uses spring loaded screw to snug up the connections to PDP unit? Cool discussions of chips...snip! Oh gad, I had the VT220 too! Geez. Jason D. From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 22 21:18:35 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: PRELIMINARY Vintage Computer Festival Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970822191835.006bc688@ferrari.sfu.ca> I'd be interested in attending this if it goes ahead, and if anybody is collecting stats on potential attendance. Kevin At 12:05 AM 97/08/14 -0700, you wrote: > >This announcement is aimed to inform the members of the classiccmp >community of the plans for the upcoming Vintage Computer Festival and is >not intended for general distribution. > > >Vintage Computer Festival > >The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is an event held to celebrate computers >and their history. Due to the incredible pace of computing technology, >computers at least ten years and older are the main focus of this event. > >Meet other collectors to trade tips, stories and even computers, hear talks >by notable computer industry figures, attend workshops geared towards the >vintage computer collector, visit the on-site interactive vintage computer >museum. Two days of celebrating the science and technology of our diverse >computer heritage! > >Event Highlights > >Vintage Pioneer (Featured Speaker) > > TBA - Candidates include Steve Wozniak (Inventor and co-founder of Apple > Computer), Lee Felsenstein (Inventor of the SOL-20 Computer), Chris > Espinosa (Legendary Programmer, Apple Computer). > >Guest Speakers > > TBA - Candidates include Jodelle French (Curator, Intel Museum), Robert > X. Cringely (Author of _Accidental Empires_, Producer of _Triumph of the > Nerds_ as seen on PBS), Steven Levy (Author of _Hackers_), Paul Fridell > (Designer of IBM 5120), Kip Crosby (President of Computer History > Association of California) > >Vintage Computer Spotlight > > Each year a classic computer is chosen to be featured in the Vintage > Computer Spotlight. This year, being the 20th anniversary of the > Apple ][, what else but the Apple ][ will be featured. > > What's more, each year's Vintage Computer Spotlight subject will be > the grand-prize of the end-of-show drawing. All attendees will be > automatically entered to win this year's Spotlight computer, an > original Apple ][ with Integer BASIC ROMS! > >Workshops > >A panel of vintage computer collectors will give talks on topics relating to >the hobby of classic computer collecting. Discussions will include: > > Restoration and preservation of old computers - external and internal > cleaning tips and techniques; basic electronic repair tips; storage > procedures for the long haul > > Software preservation with a focus on storage tips and techniques for > the long haul > > Computer Collecting 101 - basic computing skills including operation, > disk formats, serial communcations basics, how to recognize computers > and their peripherals > >Vintage Computer Museum > > A hands-on, interactive museum featuring many examples of classic > computing machinery through the years. The exhibit is composed of > artifacts on loan from the collections of organizations and > individuals, and will span the course of decades from the 1950s to > the 1980s. > >Vending > > A swap-meet style vending area where attendees can shop for old, in > some cases antique computers, peripherals, documentation and software. > No IBM clones here, just good old classic computers. > >Where and When > > TBA - Tentative dates: October 18-19, 1997 > > Venue TBA - Tri-Valley Area, East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area) > > Admission - TBD > > > >Sam >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 21:22:07 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface? References: Message-ID: <33FE494F.F0F53358@rain.org> I was at one of the local thrift stores (a once a month or so experience) and found a Radio Shack TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface unit for $0.90 with manual. Apparently it was marked down from about $3.95 or so to get it gone and I was more than happy to help out at that price even not knowing what it was. After reading the manual, I still don't know but it talks about the portable computer and I see one reference to a model 100. Anyone have more information on this thing as far as what it attaches to? The model 100 is obvious but since it talks about the connecting it to the Portable Computer, are there others this thing might work with? Also since it didn't come with a floppy disk, is this just a standard TRS-DOS or is there something special about it? Finally, it is missing the connecting cable and does anyone have the pinout for it or know where I might find it on-line? Thanks! From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 21:30:07 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 References: Message-ID: <33FE4B2E.FFA23469@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Maybe I should write a HOW-TO on linking RS232 devices to current-loop > ports. I have a couple of LA-36s DECWriters that can use either RS-232 or current-loop. When I got my first LA-36, I owned a printed circuit board shop. After looking at the RS-232 to current loop adapter board, it looked easy enough to copy so I made up probaby 6 or so (got one in front of me now.) Basically all they contain are two chips (1488 and 1489), a couple of diodes, and a couple of capacitors. It made it easy to convert my other DECWriter from current loop to RS-232. If anyone needs one, I may still have an unstuffed one around someplace. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 22 22:46:00 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Finding and Caring for PDP's or VAX's Message-ID: Hi, For quite some time I've been pondering getting either a PDP or a VAX, I'm wondering about a few things. First and formost would be how does one go about finding one :^) and what kind of price can I expect? Also, what would space and power requirements be? Yes, I'm aware they vary in size from tiny little things, up to systems that require a full sized computer floor. I'm thinking a system that would fit in a garage as far a size goes. Also what would be a good source to familiarize myself with the various models as I embark upon my latest quest? Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 21:47:33 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Targa Board update References: <3.0.1.32.19970822191835.006bc688@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <33FE4F44.5711674A@rain.org> After the discussion a couple of months ago about using vintage equipment to capture and digitize photos, I finally got the Targa 16 (circa 1985) installed and semi-working. While I am currently using a 386-25 or so computer with it now, the programming manual makes reference to it working with the ATT 6300 so as soon as everything works fine on the 386, I'll transfer everything over to the 6300 and see what happens then. As for the camera, I am using a Minolta Color Video Camera model K-800S AF in conjunction with a Hitachi Video Tuner and Portable Cassette Recorder unit. I don't know the dates on this unit but it should be early to mid 80's technology. I also have a General Electric Tuner, Color Camera, and Video Cassette Recorder that is early 80's. I am still missing the TrueVision TIPS software (the main program disk is corrupted) but I did get some leads on a couple places in town that used to use the Targa board and still might have them and the software laying around. One nice thing about TrueVision is they are still in business and have a web page to provide support. After checking it out, I picked up the Targa 16 software they had there including the C Source code for their sample program. As soon as I figure out what is required, I'll recompile their stuff into a semi-custom program that will display the image on the screen, and capture it to disk when I press the space bar (or ??? key.) At least there is a little bit of progress! From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 18:11:02 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Floppie Follies In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970819132245.009e4700@mail.northernway.net> References: <199708191718.NAA29638@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199708230309.XAA11961@mail.cgocable.net> Nip! > Yessireebob, me to. I do a fair amt. of travelling, and I like the sturdier > case of the 3.5" microfloppies. (tho, if I could find more 2" drives, I'd > be _really_ happy then! ;-) > > >Tony, well, what's about the Fuji disks? I abused them and used it > >too much and they do last and keep data better. Dysan, Maxwell and > >lesser disks gets the bit rot. The good test is to view them through > >bright light and pick a very dark, uninform areas, if you see shades > >of spots or stripes of lighter and dark areas, they're flunked. > >My second choice is 3M but I wonder where they are still made. :) Just found another reasoanble generic floppy today...very close to fuij but I do not know who makes this brand called: ViewMaster, the box is cardboard 2 piece type, white, with blue shade going white downwards, says formatted for ibm compatiable, ViewMaster certified 100% error free, MFD-2HD, box of 10pcs. Cost about 7 dollar CDN. I formatted 20 of them without any problems just in case! BTW, don't do formatting on win95 when running 6 processes all idle, it gave me lot of "baddie disks than straight dos. :)) But whom did this "ViewMaster"??? Nip! Jason D. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 18:25:50 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Targa Board update In-Reply-To: <33FE4F44.5711674A@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708230324.XAA14140@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! > After the discussion a couple of months ago about using vintage equipment to > capture and digitize photos, I finally got the Targa 16 (circa 1985) > installed and semi-working. While I am currently using a 386-25 or so > computer with it now, the programming manual makes reference to it working > with the ATT 6300 so as soon as everything works fine on the 386, I'll > transfer everything over to the 6300 and see what happens then. As for the > camera, I am using a Minolta Color Video Camera model K-800S AF in > conjunction with a Hitachi Video Tuner and Portable Cassette Recorder unit. > I don't know the dates on this unit but it should be early to mid 80's > technology. I also have a General Electric Tuner, Color Camera, and Video > Cassette Recorder that is early 80's. I am still missing the TrueVision > TIPS software (the main program disk is corrupted) but I did get some leads > on a couple places in town that used to use the Targa board and still might > have them and the software laying around. > Cushy comments about Targa stuff...snipped! Wait a minute! That AT&T 6300 is 8088 type machine? That would make a very poor image scanner system for this! Why doing downgrading from that nice 386-25 system? Beside that, 386 technology is now over 10 years now since '85 the year Intel introduced that chip? That would include all of my 386 of portable and one notebook! :) And one testbed too. ahem. Jason D. From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 22:31:48 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Targa Board update References: <199708230324.XAA14140@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <33FE59A4.4C3F5CFF@rain.org> jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca wrote: ents about Targa stuff...snipped! > Wait a minute! > > That AT&T 6300 is 8088 type machine? That would make a very poor > image scanner system for this! > > Why doing downgrading from that nice 386-25 system? Beside that, 386 > technology is now over 10 years now since '85 the year Intel > introduced that chip? Well, the Targa card takes care of the scanning and "all" the computer does is interface to the images passing through the Targa card so the 8088 should work fine. The 386 is still too new for my blood and I want to use the oldest computer I can find. Matter of fact, if I can get it to work on the original 4.77 MHz IBM XT, I'll do it. I'd use the PC but I am a bit spoiled by the use of a HD :). From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 18:50:59 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Targa Board update In-Reply-To: <33FE59A4.4C3F5CFF@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708230349.XAA17531@mail.cgocable.net> Mavin, Sheesh! Even a AT type 2 motherboard in it would cut better and give you support for 1.44 if you use a different setup disk. OLD SCSI card and a 8" 330mb SCSI would do well! With lot of memory cards stuffed in ISA slots. (Yuk). :) Jason D. > > Well, the Targa card takes care of the scanning and "all" the computer does > is interface to the images passing through the Targa card so the 8088 should > work fine. The 386 is still too new for my blood and I want to use the > oldest computer I can find. Matter of fact, if I can get it to work on the > original 4.77 MHz IBM XT, I'll do it. I'd use the PC but I am a bit spoiled > by the use of a HD :). From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 22 21:38:39 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Anyone ever? In-Reply-To: <199708221314.IAA21049@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <199708230611.CAA03854@smtp.interlog.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:16:24 -0500 Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Bill Girnius" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Anyone ever? X-To: "Classic" Anyone ever run STiK on an ATARI ST? I have it up and it works, but I can't seem to get a DNS resolution, If i manually put in IP's its works and connects, say to IRC. But I can't get it to resolve names against IP's I have the entries in Default.cfg that the docs SAY that works, but it dosn't appear to. Line is NAMESERVER x.x.x.x and NAMESERVER0 x.x.x.x obviously, in my configuration I have the ip's for our nameservers. If you have access to newsgroups you could try comp.sys.atari.st The programmers of the package stik-cab are often online and i-net connectivity is one of the major threads. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 22 21:38:42 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199708230611.CAA03862@smtp.interlog.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:36:38 -0800 Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | No, even though they have the same joystick 9-pin DIN Amiga and ST mice won't work . I've tried it . Has to do with the digital-analogue thing I believe. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 22 21:38:48 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199708230612.CAA03870@smtp.interlog.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 01:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Mr. Self Destruct" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though > since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the > 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the > Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take > Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. > > Zane I've tried using Amiga mice on Commodore 8-bits some time ago and don't think I had any luck, but I could be wrong. As for mice, I believe CMD still sells 1351 clones but if your patient, I may be throwing my whole collection/mess of computer stuff up for sale and I've got about 5 mice for 8-bitters. LeS more@crazy.rutgers.edu Put my name on your list, if you do. ciao larry From danjo at xnet.com Sat Aug 23 09:23:41 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: East Coast PDP's Message-ID: Boy I thought I had lost this one 8-( But NOPE I found it! Harvard seems to have an excess. I can't get there but you people on the East Caost may have a beter chance. Please talk to Clifford. > From chen47@fas.harvard.edu Mon Aug 11 19:55:23 1997 > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT) > From: Clifford Chen > To: Brett > Subject: Re: PDP-11 miscellany for sale Hi. Sorry for the extreme delay, but we've had quite a time organizing and documenting our stuff. In any case, here's the list we drew up: Hardware: 1 Digital Decscope (vt-52) 1 Heathkit H19 Terminal (vt-52?) 2 DecWriter II's 1 PDP-11/05 1 PDP-Industrial 11 (a model 35, I think) 1 RK-05 drive + interface 1 Card reader 9+ bus interfaces 1 RK-07 disk drive and 48 inch rack 2 Expansion boxes with power supplies 3 extra power supplies lots of unidentifiable circuit boards 1 RL-01 disk 1 Nashua 15-12 disk a bunch of RK-05 cartridges 1 MT-11 Tape drive and rack Documentation: 1) RT-11 System Reference Manual 2) Programming RSX-11 in Macro and Fortran 3) Workbook for 2) 4) RSX-11 Task Builder manual 5) RSX-11 I/O drivers reference manual 6) RT-11 Software Support Manual 7) RT-11 System Message Manual 8) RT-11 Programmer's Reference Manual 9) RSX-11M PDP-11 Record Management System 10) RSX-11M System generation and installation 11) PDP-11 DL-11 asynchronous line interface engineering drawings 12) RK-05 Engineering drawings 13) KW11-2 Engineering drawings 14) Bootstrap Terminator schematics 15) BA-11-K Mounting box manual 16) RK-07 Schematics 17) KT-11D Memory Manager schematics 18) ME-11L Core memory Schematics 19) KE11-F Floating Instruction Set Schematics 20) TM11 DEC Magtape Schematics 21) KW11-P Programmable Real-time clock Schematics 22) TU10 DEC Magtape engineering drawings 23) Power supply/chassis engineering drawings 24) DL-11 Asynchronous Line interface schematics 25) H720 Power supply and rackmount drawings 26) RK-711N schematics 27) DL-11 Asynchronous line interface schematics 28) Restart Loader schematic 29) KT-11D Memory Manager 30) PDP-11/05 engineering drawings 31) LAXX-KG drawings 32) RK-05J engineering drawings 33) More RK-05 engineering drawings 34) RK-11D disk controller schematics 35) RK-611 schematics 36) KD-11A schematics 37) Qume daisywheel manual and schematics 38) Heathkit terminal manual 39) RK-07 manual and schematics 40) DECwriter 2 manual 41) Model 1770 memory manual 42) KT-11 memory manager manual 43) DL-11 asynchronous line interface manual 44) RT-11 Software Support Manual 45) RT-11 System User's guide 46) RT-11 Documentation Directory 47) RT-11 System reference manual 48) Qume interface manual 49) RX-02 floppy manual 50) RT-11 Programmer's manual 51) RT-11 System release notes 52) RT-11 Fortran manual 53) Kermit Manual 54) DSR (text formatter) manual 55) RT-11 intro 56) Decwriter II maintenance manual 57) RT-11 Basic manual 58) RT-11 software support manual 59) LISP manual 60) ODT Reference (RSX-11) 61) RSX-11 Crash dump analyer manual 62) RSX-11 Error logging 63) RSX-11 System Library routines 64) RSX-11 diagnostics 65) RSX-11 System library update notice 66) RSX-11 Program development 67) RSX-11 I/O operations 68) Random pages from a 1984 Byte magazine 69) Centronics Series 100 Printer manual 70) M200 Card Reader manual 71) Raytheon PDP-11 repair manual 72) RX211 floppy controller drawings 73) KT-11D memory management manual 74) KW11-L programmable clock manual 75) DL-11 asynchronous line manual 76) MM11S, MF-11L, MF11-D core memory systems 77) BA11K mounting box manual 78) DL-11 asynchronous line manual 79) XXDP - PDP11 diagnostic manual 80) MS11-L MOS memory users guide 81) PDP-11/05-s, PDP-11/10-s system manual 82) BA11K mounting box 83) BA11K technical manual 84) DL-11 asynchronous line manual 85) DR11-W direct memory interface module 86) BA-11K engineering drawings BC -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Name: Classic Computer Rescue List URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ Name: Classic Computer ListOp URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Aug 23 12:25:16 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: 1620 Emulator Runs First Program! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970822191835.006bc688@ferrari.sfu.ca> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Aug 22, 97 07:18:35 pm Message-ID: <199708231725.KAA03018@fraser> Hi All: For you IBM 1620 fans, this is to let you know that my 1620 emulator has reached "first light" stage and has run its first program. This is a simple 3-liner that counts 1, 2, 4, 8, ... About two thirds of the instruction set has been written, pretty soon I will be able to write some more complex programs, and, importantly, be able to try running some original 1620 software. Thanks to those who have provided me with "real" software - I have SPS and FORTRAN which should eventually run on the emulator. More later, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 23 13:51:11 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. Message-ID: This is getting to be a real pain... Sometimes it boots, most times it won't. Usual response is I say b du or b du0 It hits the disk twice, and halts at 050110. I have run the RA down all it's diags in the manual, no faults. Same for when it boots. The UDA50 does running lights too. Doesn't matter if I use A or B. Only difference there is A lights up sometimes and B doesn't. Cables look fine. What's going on? Does it just hate me? Also, when RSTS/E does come up, it sometimes traps to 4. Timeout/sysfail vector. Something says this drive is going... From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Aug 23 10:25:53 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Lisa II Power supply wanted in Bay Area... In-Reply-To: <199708201625.RAA02399@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708231924.PAA29402@mail.cgocable.net> Hello! Best way is have monitor shop or someone who repairs electronics fetched repair the lisa's power supply module. You can take it out as a unit from back after popping the back by hand. :) No screws needed. Nice! Better rebuild it with new capacitors and few semiconductors as needed to replace any burnt parts, the main switching transformer ever very rarely fail. No point to have a dead and a working power supply if it's so rare item! The cost of labor and components are not that much compared to overall of the value of this lisa, the LISA itself is very collectiable item! There's are two types of this power supplies. Jason D. > Hi, > > I have been looking for a power supply for my Lisa II for some time now, > but as Lisa seem to be very rare in the UK I have had no luck so far. I > guess they are more common in the US, so I am putting out this email in > the hope of finding someone who has a spare they can let me have. > > I know of someone who would be willing to transport one back from the > Bay Area this weekend which would be real good because it would save a > lot in shipping costs. > > Many thanks for listening... > > -- > Kevan > > Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ > > > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 15:34:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 23, 97 01:51:11 pm Message-ID: <9708231934.AA02452@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/700f9bb9/attachment.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Aug 23 10:36:55 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: Maybe not here-floppy for Toshiba In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708231935.PAA00952@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! If DOS complains disk is not there or unreadable, there are tanished switches. Have someone measure two switches for decent low resistance if it's not clean break/make contacts resistances, it is a bit pain of taking it apart and clean those tanish off the silver plated copper plates. Be careful of fine sprung spings and little leaf wiget used to short these two contacts. That is all to it. Saved one like that in Toshiba drives of all kinds, Fixed 4 of them for pc standard and one for T5200/100. Those citizen/Toshiba drives are very rugged for heavy use. Those new Panasonic/Teac/cheapo ones most of time are not up to this kind of much use as I seen so far! Jason D. > I know that this really doesn't belong here, but in some circles, the old > Toshiba laptop that I have may be considered a classic! > > Anyway, I'm looking for help finding an internal floppy drive for my Toshiba > 3100/20 laptop. It's a portable, non-battery Red plasma laptop, with a > messed-up 720k floppy drive. Does anyone know where I can get one of these. > Toshiba want's over $150 for one, and I won't pay that for a crappy 720k drive > on a free machine. > > Any leads appreciated! > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > rcini@msn.com From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 23 15:07:46 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: <9708231934.AA02452@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Time to get down to basics: what boards are in this system? How > are they configured? Which version of RSTS/E? And we're off! Every little bit I can come up with. The system is in two cabinets. Two BA11s. I have an RA81 for the boot drive, two TU58s in the main cabinet, the console terminal (A Wyse 30 for now), and a real funny plug in the system case. 3 rows of wires in a printer-style plug. LP11? BA11 #1: This is the system box, BTW. The one whose power cord I hacked up. The DEC power cord is 120VAC, 1 phase, etc etc. But it has a sideways pin. So I whacked the end off a PC cable, soldered the appropriate pin to the appropriate wire, and plugged her in. It worked. The power controller plug was too wierd to mess with. Slot 1 M7090 2 Empty 3 M7093 4 M7094 5 M7095 6 M7096 7 M7097 8 M7098 9 M8743 BF 10 M8722 BB 11 M8722 BB 12 M8722 BC 13 Grant Contnuity jumper 14 M9202 and GCJ 15 other end of M9202 and GCJ 16 M8719 17 M8719 18 M7258 19 M7297 and M7296 20 Unlabled 21 Same 22 M5904 23 M5904 24 M5904 25 GCJ 26 M9300 and GCJ 27 Bus extender ribbons and GCJ Raised the BA11 and checked out the backplane. Looks fine. BA11 #2 1 Other end of bus extender and GCJ 2 M8719 3 M8719 4 M920 and GCJ 5 Other end and M7297 and M7296 6 M7295 7 M7294 8 M5904 9 M5904 10 M5904 11 M9300 and GCJ 12 M9300 and GCJ 13 M9202 and GCJ 14 other end and GCJ 15 M7486 16 M7485 17 GCJ > > RSTS/E is *extremely* picky about configuration > details. If some boards have been pulled and/or added without > carefully following the rules about ordering CSR's and vectors, it's > not surprising that RSTS/E falls and can't get up. Not even booting? And when it does boot, I get LP0: device not interrupting - disabled or something like that From william at ans.net Sat Aug 23 15:52:30 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: HP Paper Tape Reader In-Reply-To: <199708231725.KAA03018@fraser> Message-ID: <199708232052.AA22243@interlock.ans.net> While digging about at the old homestead, I uncovered a bit of stuff I had forgoten about momentarily. It is a Hewlett Packard 4070 paper tape reader/punch. I obtained this with my 2100A system, laying about all over the place because the original owner wanted to keep the rack. Anyway, this thing is quite small, so I will be able to take it back to New York on the plane. We, at RCS/RI, have been looking for a *gentle* paper tape machine, as we have loads of software for machines we have (namely LINC-8 (PDP-8,8/S) and Interdata model 4). What type of interface does this little thing like? Would it be good for reading tapes approaching their 30th birthday? Do any HP people out there know? William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 17:32:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 23, 97 08:07:46 pm Message-ID: <9708232132.AA06761@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1710 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/217467d8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 16:29:03 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: What's this ISA card? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/d5b626e3/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 23 16:48:30 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: <9708232132.AA06761@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > 1. You've got two RH11's in the system, but (as far as I can tell) > you've got no Massbus peripherals. Why not pull the RH11 system units? Okay. I'd like to trim this down to one cabinet anyway. > > 2. Why is there no Unibus terminator at the end of the bus? (Or > did you just leave it out?) > Oh, crap. There's the problem? > 3. Are the M9300's sitting in RH11 system units? Just looking > at your list above, I can't see why they'd be in the middle of the > Unibus at all. M9300's are terminators, and unless there's a very > special reason, they generally are only at the end of the bus. Not sure, I stuck one on the end of the bus - everything started working! > > Generally, I think it'd be wise to pull all the unused cruft (esp RH11's!) > and get the entire system in one box. > > "Not Interrupting" to me often indicates a problem with interrupt > continuity. And if the interrupts aren't getting through, it's > extremely surprising that any DMA to your RA81's is being done > at all... > Now it didn't. Apparently, someone moved some terminators around. Looks fine now! > Tim. > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 18:15:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 23, 97 09:48:30 pm Message-ID: <9708232215.AA05816@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/747d8953/attachment.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Aug 23 20:22:55 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: FW: SMD Disk drive, FREE to good home -- UK Message-ID: <34008ca0.18839790@mail.wizards.net> Can one of our UK readers help with this? Fellow's got an SMD drive free to the first caller. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- I have a surplus Fujitsu M2333K (330MB) SMD drive to give away. This is an 8" unit with power supply, and - as far as I know - in working order. It's presently in a small cabinet which was built to hold four of these units. Pressure of space forces me to get rid of it, so it's free to a good home, providing you collect it from York (UK). Otherwise, sadly, it will contribute to some landfill site... Pete Tel. York (01904) 488699 -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 16:36:52 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. In-Reply-To: <9708232132.AA06761@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 23, 97 02:32:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 669 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/3c96806d/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 23:35:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 23, 97 10:36:52 pm Message-ID: <9708240335.AA07087@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/748f6ae2/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 24 00:19:51 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: What is this tape cartridge? Message-ID: I was checking out the local surplus shop looking for a 19" rack for my latest computer project, no luck there but I did find some other stuff. What I'm really wondering about is this tape cartridge I found: COUSINO Echo-matic II Self Threading Tape Cartridge Orrtronics, Incorporated Toledo, Ohio, USA It's quarter inch tape in a clear case approximatly 1" x 3.5" x 5" in size, and rounded on one end. The actual tape reel is about 2.25" and has almost no tape on it. The tape looks to be a continous loop. Does anyone have any idea what this is? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 23 23:56:47 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: What is this tape cartridge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I was checking out the local surplus shop looking for a 19" rack for my > latest computer project, no luck there but I did find some other stuff. > > What I'm really wondering about is this tape cartridge I found: > > COUSINO > Echo-matic II > Self Threading > Tape Cartridge > Orrtronics, Incorporated > Toledo, Ohio, USA > > It's quarter inch tape in a clear case approximatly 1" x 3.5" x 5" in size, > and rounded on one end. The actual tape reel is about 2.25" and has almost > no tape on it. The tape looks to be a continous loop. Does anyone have > any idea what this is? > > Zane > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | > +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ > | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | Reaching back more years than I like to think about, I believe that it is a tape for a telephone answering machine. Not the kind that takes messages, but the type that delivered a message to the caller. There may well have been other applications also, but that one rings a faint chime. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From danjo at xnet.com Sun Aug 24 07:09:22 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: What is this tape cartridge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > What I'm really wondering about is this tape cartridge I found: > > > > COUSINO > > Echo-matic II > > Self Threading > > Tape Cartridge > > Orrtronics, Incorporated > > Toledo, Ohio, USA > > > > Zane > > Reaching back more years than I like to think about, I believe that it is > a tape for a telephone answering machine. Not the kind that takes > messages, but the type that delivered a message to the caller. > > There may well have been other applications also, but that one rings a > faint chime. > - don OR 8-) True to its name *Echo-matic II* is it one of those devices used in radio when you you needed needed an an echo echo 8-) It was one of the easiest ways to get a cheap but effective echo. I would find a Radio Professional and query that idea as well. BC From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 14:06:50 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:38 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <33FE4B2E.FFA23469@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 22, 97 07:30:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/e878d5de/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 16:24:09 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:39 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <199708230120.VAA25197@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca" at Aug 22, 97 09:21:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1935 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/3594c2a4/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 24 11:43:34 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:39 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 References: Message-ID: <340064B6.233102B5@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Maybe I should write a HOW-TO on linking RS232 devices to current-loop > > > > ports. > > > > I have a couple of LA-36s DECWriters that can use either RS-232 or > > current-loop. When I got my first LA-36, I owned a printed circuit > board > > shop. After looking at the RS-232 to current loop adapter board, it > looked > > Watch out, this fooled me once years ago... > The RS232 card is, indeed, a 1488 and a 1489, but it's not going to a > current loop on the other side. Ah so, thanks for that info! My recollections are that current loop is available on the LA-36 and I was *assuming* that is where the signal source came from to the RS232 card. From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 24 11:57:06 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:39 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970824125704.009463f0@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Marvin happened to blather: >I was at one of the local thrift stores (a once a month or so experience) >and found a Radio Shack TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface unit for $0.90 with >manual. Apparently it was marked down from about $3.95 or so to get it gone >and I was more than happy to help out at that price even not knowing what it >was. After reading the manual, I still don't know but it talks about the >portable computer and I see one reference to a model 100. Anyone have more >information on this thing as far as what it attaches to? The model 100 is >obvious but since it talks about the connecting it to the Portable Computer, >are there others this thing might work with? Also since it didn't come with >a floppy disk, is this just a standard TRS-DOS or is there something special >about it? Finally, it is missing the connecting cable and does anyone have >the pinout for it or know where I might find it on-line? Thanks! Ohhhh... nice buy! They wouldn't happen to have 3 more at that price, would they??? ;-) The DVI as it was shortened to would give 180K floppy (40 track, SSDD, 18SPT) storage and 40x24 & 80x24 VT-52 compatible screen capability to a Tandy 100, 102 (later, lighter, redesigned 100), or the Tandy 200 (which I own). [[ Editor's note: Obviously, you need one of the above-mentioned portables to make use of the DVI... ]] It needs a special cable that I have seen for sale on comp.sys.tandy, and at the for-sale listing at: http://www.value.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/~thedock/c100sale.pl [[ Editor's note: this is a cgi-program accessable from the "For Sale" link at: http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html They also have a wanted listing and a guestbook! ]] It *does* require a boot floppy disk, I believe these are still available at Radio Shack for a few $$$ apiece (at least in the US... not sure about other countries) I have a boot disk for the DVI that boots the Model 100 -- too bad it doesn't seem to work with my T200. :-( I do have the pinouts for the cable, but the connection to the M100 was a specially wired 40-pin DIP cable, that I've heard is mongo-painful to try to build yourself (and, of course, RS doesn't stock those IIRC). The cable for the T200/T102 is easier to build with 40-pin IDC connectors and ribbon cable (I successfully converted an IBM-PC Clone IDE data cable) If you wish more information on this or most anything else from the "Model 'T'" world, just let me know. "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From lwalkern0spam at interlog.com Sun Aug 24 08:45:24 1997 From: lwalkern0spam at interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:39 2005 Subject: Replies Message-ID: <199708241735.NAA29675@smtp.interlog.com> My apologies. I have been setting up my "Pegasus" mailer ( a GREAT prg ) and had inadvertedly unchecked the original message indicator. ( > ) ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 24 13:34:38 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: anyone heard of "lobo drives"? Message-ID: <970824143436_956010882@emout04.mail.aol.com> I decided to catalog all my apple ][ stuff this weekend and rediscovered some controller cards and some drive analog cards by a company called lobo drives. they are in good shape, but definately appear to be their age. the circuit boards for the controller cards is almost translucent and they don't seem to have the component or soldering/design quality that later model cards have. several the the analog cards are missing the 74ls125? chip, probably because of incorrect cabling. anyone heard of this company? are the parts worth keeping? david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 24 13:41:18 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: ID these unknown apple cards please. Message-ID: <970824144117_857448454@emout03.mail.aol.com> the first one is a bal-500 eprom programmer. it fits in a slot, but it's too tall to run with the cover on! it's not a pc card either. anyone with info on this? the second is a mpc peripherals ap-32 card. its full length with a language card connector, and empty socket for eprom i guess and 6 leds at the top and a toggle switch at the back. the third one is a full length card called an appli-card by pcpi. the last one is a full length card that looks older than most made by axlon 1981. it has a 34 pin header at the top of the card. lots of 74lxxxx chips. no other identification for this one. i can take pictures of these with my quickcam and make available on my page if need be. if anyone knows anything about these cards, give me a shout please. david From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 24 14:21:51 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: anyone heard of "lobo drives"? References: <970824143436_956010882@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <340089CF.872ED666@rain.org> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I decided to catalog all my apple ][ stuff this weekend and rediscovered > some > controller cards and some drive analog cards by a company called lobo > drives. > they are in good shape, but definately appear to be their age. the circuit > > boards for the controller cards is almost translucent and they don't seem > to > have the component or soldering/design quality that later model cards > have. > several the the analog cards are missing the 74ls125? chip, probably > because > of incorrect cabling. anyone heard of this company? are the parts worth > keeping? Lobo Drives was a company that started here in Santa Barbara sometime in the early '80s putting together and selling 5 1/4" and 8" disk systems. I don't know all the computers their stuff would work with, but I know they would work with the TRS computers. A bit later, they started making their own TRS clone called the MAX80 that got good reviews (as I recall) in the magazines. I wasn't aware they made controller cards for the Apple IIs but I don't have a lot of info on their product line. The company was started by Roger Billings and was sold a number of years later, but I don't know who bought it. Trivia, a friend of mine did much of the early drafting and layout of the circuit boards, and I made some of the engineering prototype boards. From rcini at classic.msn.com Sun Aug 24 15:02:32 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: My weekend DEC haul... Message-ID: Hello, all: I was able to score the following from Temple Univ. on Friday. There is still a load of stuff for older machines, and older machines themselves (such as a load of 11/23s, a handful of 11/40s, two 11/34s, plenty of RL01s, monitors, printers, etc. Too much to report...and I didn't even have time to get to the "documents" room, where they had software and manuals for all of the hardware. I spent over 4 hours there and didn't even scratch the surface. I'll be going back in early-October to get more stuff. Here's what I got: 1 DEC 6' 19" rack with 30a power controller 1 MultiTech modem rack and 2 DEC communications servers. The rack is filled with 10 2400-baud modems. 2 DECMate terminals minus keyboards :-( maybe next time. 1 EPROM programmer/IC tester (no disk; bummer) - Miscellaneous cables 1 RD52 hard drive; bad power supply and the grandaddy of them all: A working VAXstation I. Hadrware/software unknown at this time, although I can identify a console port, an Ethernet AUI port, and 12 serial ports. Now, I have a shopping list for my next trip, and I need to see the docs and software room. Time to play... +============================================+ | Rich Cini/WUGNET | | | | MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking, | | Charter ClubWin! Member (6) and a | | collector of classic computers | +============================================+ From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Sun Aug 24 15:34:54 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: ID these unknown apple cards please. References: <970824144117_857448454@emout03.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <34009AEE.3881@hiway1.exit109.com> >the third one is a full length card called an appli-card by pcpi. CP/M card, one of the nicer ones. It should have 64K of memory and a 4mhz(IIRC) Z80. There's a guy who runs a web page on Apple II CP/M cards, drop him a note and he sould be able to provide you with system disks. <<>> From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Aug 24 16:34:20 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC/Jr?? Message-ID: <199708242139.RAA13822@mail.wincom.net> I am trying to revive a PC Jr. At power on I get two beeps, no video either on the IBM monitor or through the RCA connector. I have tried removing plug-in boards except for power supply, with same results. Also tried two different PC Jr keyboards, plugged in, same results. Does anyone recall what two short beeps indicates on an IBM PC/Jr? Thanks Charlie Fox From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 24 16:59:18 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: IBM PC/Jr?? References: <199708242139.RAA13822@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3400AEB6.6BE10F80@rain.org> Charles E. Fox wrote: > I am trying to revive a PC Jr. At power on I get two beeps, no > video > either on the IBM monitor or through the RCA connector. I have tried > removing plug-in boards except for power supply, with same results. > Also tried two different PC Jr keyboards, plugged in, same results. > Does anyone recall what two short beeps indicates on an IBM PC/Jr? I just checked the PC Jr. Guide to Operations and it was pretty useless as far as finding the problem. Interesting that you plugged in the keyboards. The usual keyboard has an IR link with the base unit and doesn't need to be plugged in. You might try it with the keyboards not plugged in and see what happens. I have found several keyboards where the battery started to leak and caused a bit of damage in the battery compartment of the keyboard itself. Usual Startup sequence: 1) IBM Color Bar Screen w/ correct memory appears. 2) One Beep from system. 3) IBM Basic Screen Appears Further on in the troubleshooting section it asks if you heard any beeps: No - Have the unit serviced. 1 Beep - Go on with the chart. 2 Beeps - Have the unit serviced. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 24 16:48:34 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. In-Reply-To: <9708240335.AA07087@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 23, 97 08:35:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2396 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970824/b05bcff7/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Sat Aug 23 11:08:08 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708251213.FAA07016@mx3.u.washington.edu> > > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. > > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even > > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t > > 386.) > > K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} Ya know, I was going to try to run Windows on it -- it came with 1 MB. That ought to be interesting across an 8 bit bus. You suppose I could fit enough files on my ST-412? Manney From jrice at texoma.net Mon Aug 25 07:47:26 1997 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface? References: <3.0.32.19970824125704.009463f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <34017EDE.D0E36528@texoma.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Whilst in a self-induced trance, Marvin happened to blather: > > >I was at one of the local thrift stores (a once a month or so > experience) > >and found a Radio Shack TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface unit for $0.90 > with > >manual. Apparently it was marked down from about $3.95 or so to get > it gone > >and I was more than happy to help out at that price even not knowing > what it > >was. After reading the manual, I still don't know but it talks about > the > >portable computer and I see one reference to a model 100. Anyone > have more > >information on this thing as far as what it attaches to? The model > 100 is > >obvious but since it talks about the connecting it to the Portable > Computer, > >are there others this thing might work with? Also since it didn't > come with > >a floppy disk, is this just a standard TRS-DOS or is there something > special > >about it? Finally, it is missing the connecting cable and does > anyone have > >the pinout for it or know where I might find it on-line? Thanks! > > Ohhhh... nice buy! They wouldn't happen to have 3 more at that price, > would > they??? ;-) > > The DVI as it was shortened to would give 180K floppy (40 track, SSDD, > > 18SPT) storage and 40x24 & 80x24 VT-52 compatible screen capability to > a > Tandy 100, 102 (later, lighter, redesigned 100), or the Tandy 200 > (which I > own). > > [[ Editor's note: Obviously, you need one of the above-mentioned > portables > to make use of the DVI... ]] > > It needs a special cable that I have seen for sale on comp.sys.tandy, > and > at the for-sale listing at: > > http://www.value.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/~thedock/c100sale.pl > > [[ Editor's note: this is a cgi-program accessable from the "For Sale" > link > at: > http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html > They also have a wanted listing and a guestbook! ]] > > It *does* require a boot floppy disk, I believe these are still > available > at Radio Shack for a few $$$ apiece (at least in the US... not sure > about > other countries) I have a boot disk for the DVI that boots the Model > 100 -- > too bad it doesn't seem to work with my T200. :-( > > I do have the pinouts for the cable, but the connection to the M100 > was a > specially wired 40-pin DIP cable, that I've heard is mongo-painful to > try > to build yourself (and, of course, RS doesn't stock those IIRC). The > cable > for the T200/T102 is easier to build with 40-pin IDC connectors and > ribbon > cable (I successfully converted an IBM-PC Clone IDE data cable) > > If you wish more information on this or most anything else from the > "Model > 'T'" world, just let me know. > > "Merch" > -- > Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* > zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. As of last week, RS said they could no longer supply the boot disk fot the DVI. I tried to order one from RSU and while the order went through at the store, I recieved a letter from RS stating that the DVI boot disk is no longer available. From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Aug 25 08:23:09 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Update: HHC E-proms In-Reply-To: <34017EDE.D0E36528@texoma.net> References: <3.0.32.19970824125704.009463f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970825092309.009afb30@mail.northernway.net> Here's the deal, Neal: ;-) Mike has those 500 HHC e-proms for sale -- that will go for scrap if we don't rescue them. I can afford to buy them one-lump, but I can't afford actually _keeping_ them (I offered to take up to 30 pounds myself...) so here's the deal I asked him for: His scrap deal was $1.25 / pound, and there's 100 pounds. I offered him $1.30 / pound plus _all_ shipping, packing, handling costs shipped to me in a few days if I could find enough takers for at least 30 pounds of the things. Note: I just sent the e-mail to him -- he has *not* agreed to this deal yet. If he's not for it, I will update the list as quickly as I can. Anyway, pending the offer, I'd like to hear from anyone interested in some of these... I will entertain bids of no less than 1/2 pound (25 e-proms), mainly because anything smaller will be 99% shipping cost, and why not? I'll be honest: I plan on recouping my costs, but I don't plan on getting rich for my troubles: I'm thinking of reselling for $1.60 to $1.75 per pound (remember -- 50 per pound) + UPS shipping and packaging _only if I have to purchase it_. I have a fair amount of packing material now, and may be able to pick up the difference for free. If so, there won't be a packing charge. A lot of this price depends on getting the things shipped to me (and what they end up costing me if Mike doesn't take the deal), but I *really* doubt it would be higher than my high estimate. Anyway, lemme know who'd be interested in some of these, what you'd be willing to pay (in case I have to sweeten the deal with Mike), and I'll let Mike know when he mails me back. How's this sound? "Merch" -- to the rescue! -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From ejames at newwave.net Mon Aug 25 09:37:36 1997 From: ejames at newwave.net (Bruce James) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p Message-ID: <199708251437.KAA14267@ns.newwave.net> Hi to everyone on the list does anyone have a list of websites or a list of users groups for the Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p? I have had this computer since 1981 boxed in moth balls and decided to see if it still worked.. did the normal search by search engines but no luck so far... thanks Bruce James kb8kac tech plus From ekman at lysator.liu.se Mon Aug 25 10:15:51 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) In-Reply-To: <199708250702.AAA00356@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hello! I am currently working for a company in Gothenburg, Sweden that used to be the Scandinavian importer for Sord computers (a Japanese company) during the eighties. Their attic is full of old stuff, most of which the boss would like to throw out, and which he would unless a couple of employees disagree with him. Not only are there computers and peripherals, but also loads of documentation and software. I had a discussion with the boss recently and asked if it would be possible to ship the stuff to interested parties if I would do the work free of charge. No such luck. I may be able to persuade them to let the stuff for free if the receiver pays shipping, however. But shipping from Sweden is expensive. Thus, I am now trying to see if there is any interest in having any of this for the cost of shipping. If there is, I will try to make a definite deal with the company and then make a list of what is available. I am afraid that if nothing is done soon everything will be dumped into a container. If you are potentially interested, please reply directly to me (ekman@lysator.liu.se). If you have any questions about Sord computers in general, reply to the mailing list. /F PS. There will be no IS-11 or M-5 stuff (I will be reserving anything such for myself) but probably several M-23 and M-243 and who knows what else. Possibly also hand-held GRiD terminals and maybe the odd PC compatible. I know there are some UNIX minis, but the company may want to keep these since they still have customers using such. Everything will be adapted for Swedish electricity net (220 V). From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 25 10:38:52 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708251538.AA13675@world.std.com> <> > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's > 386.) <> <> K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} < Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > Hello! > > I am currently working for a company in Gothenburg, Sweden that used to be > the Scandinavian importer for Sord computers (a Japanese company) during > the eighties. Their attic is full of old stuff, most of which the boss > would like to throw out, and which he would unless a couple of employees > disagree with him. Not only are there computers and peripherals, but also > loads of documentation and software. <...> If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs around to get some of this over here. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Aug 25 13:25:51 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) Message-ID: <199708251823.NAA07336@sunflower.com> My sister moved to Norway and used a company called AirSea Freight. Everything you can get on a standard pallete, stacked 4ft high, for 750.00 takes 6 weeks to get it though. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) > Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 1:09 PM > > On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > I am currently working for a company in Gothenburg, Sweden that used to be > > the Scandinavian importer for Sord computers (a Japanese company) during > > the eighties. Their attic is full of old stuff, most of which the boss > > would like to throw out, and which he would unless a couple of employees > > disagree with him. Not only are there computers and peripherals, but also > > loads of documentation and software. > <...> > > If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get > together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs > around to get some of this over here. > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Mon Aug 25 13:31:20 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Update: HHC E-proms Message-ID: <199708251431_MC2-1E2B-54F3@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Mike has those 500 HHC e-proms for sale -- that will go for scrap if we< >I'll be honest: I plan on recouping my costs, but I don't plan on getting rich for my troubles: I'm thinking of reselling for $1.60 to $1.75 per pound (remember -- 50 per pound) + UPS shipping and packaging _only if< What size EPROMS are these? Have they already been programmed? Will they work in anything but the HHC? And if already programmed, what do they do for the HHC? Gil Parrish 107765.1161@compuserve.com From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 25 13:12:55 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Stuff for trade, including Heath H88, less case Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F1C4BC@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Here's a new item For Trade: Complete Heath H88, less case/monitor - Motherboard - Terminal board - Three I/O cards - One of those 5 1/4" floppy drives Heath used with the big door - Complete documentation set! Perfect for somebody with a broken H88 - OR - You can install this in a Heath/Zenith terminal and pow! you have an H88. In fact, I believe it's designed to do this. Other Stuff For Trade! - TRS-80 Model I - Altos Z-80 MP/M multiuser system with built-in 8" drive & tape backup - Apple IIgs (cpu only) - Apple Macintosh 128, correct keyboard & mouse, system boot disk - Atari 800 - Atari 520STfm - Atari 1040STf - C64 in original box - North Star Horizon - Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 Items Wanted (trade up/down/whatever): - S-100 systems, drives, cards, brochures, docs - BYTE issues 1, 3, 4 - Ohio Scientific Challenger - Exidy Sorcerer - Intecolor 8001 / CompuColor II - RCA COSMAC - Rockwell AIM-65 - Sinclair ZX80 - Intertec Superbrain - Heath H8 - Cromemco System One/System Zero/C-10 - Spectravideo SV-318 - Mattel Aquarius accessories Software/docs wanted: - Docs for Byte Systems Byt-8 - Lisa Office System (unserialized) - Disk OS for NEC PC-8001 - Microsoft Adventure Computer conversions for video game systems wanted: (for example) - Magnavox Odyssey Command Center keyboard - Mattel Intellivision II computer adapter keyboard - Entex 2000 Piggyback keyboard for Atari VCS - Unitronics Atari VCS Expander From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Aug 25 13:55:38 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Whoopee!: Update: HHC E-proms In-Reply-To: <199708251431_MC2-1E2B-54F3@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970825145538.00a32650@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Gil Parrish said: >What size EPROMS are these? Have they already been programmed? Will they >work in anything but the HHC? And if already programmed, what do they do >for the HHC? Size: Uh, methinks 8Kbyte, but don't quote me. Programmed? IIRC, yes. Work on other than HHC? Code, prolly not. Erased / reprogrammed? prolly. Do for HHC? Dunno. I plan on using some reprogrammed for other schtuff, however, I also plan on archiving all the code from them that I can find onto my MO for posterity, to guard against bitrot. Btw: The deal is a go! They've been saved! Get your orders in soon, and I'll try to get more info on them as I can. I'll also drop a hint if those used HHC's will ever become reality, but at least this does seem to be a for-sure. Will do a web-search for the HHC -- see what I can turn up. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 25 14:53:01 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 is Finally Up! Message-ID: It works. But I shouldv'e noticed no termination right off... That was a stupid mistake. Anyway, now that it's up, I get to find a more permanent home for it- This building goes away at the end of the month! We're looking at Jeff's garage. I was telnetted into it last night. Once I figure out how, it goes up for public access. Anyone know of PPP for RSTS/E? :) Or I could always re-write the TCP/IP protocol in BASIC-PLUS... Oh, and we're going to take it apart to move it this time. Give Jeff more opportunity to bust the OTHER foot... And less work for me! How much does a DEC cabinet weigh empty? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 25 16:06:15 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 is Finally Up! In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 25, 97 02:53:01 pm Message-ID: <9708252006.AA09807@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 273 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970825/3591f770/attachment.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 25 15:14:20 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 is Finally Up! In-Reply-To: <9708252006.AA09807@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > What style? A H960 is less than 100 pounds; quite easy for a > single person to manhandle. If you take the sides off, it's even > lighter and easier to grab. A Dual-wide corporate cabinet is > probably 300 pounds, though... > We plan on splitting the corporate cabinet into two parts. The DEC manual I got shows how to put the two together, we'll just reverse the procedure. We'll probably just stick the second BA11 in the first rack and eliminate the second. It'll take up less room that way. We could just roll it, but DEC, in their infinite wisdom, locked the back wheels so they don't caster. From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Aug 25 19:02:36 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free CP/M system] Message-ID: <34021D1C.2B7B@oboe.calpoly.edu> Found this on Central CA newsgroup: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unclmike@fletch.fix.net (Uncle Mike) Subject: Free CP/M system Date: 25 Aug 1997 12:08:45 -0700 Size: 1220 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970825/1740a463/attachment.mht From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 25 19:39:44 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Altair scans Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F4835F@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> How are we doing on getting the Altair scans up on the ftp site? thanks Kai From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 25 19:51:26 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Honeywell "Black Apple" floppy drives Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F48365@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> I almost forgot - in addition to my earlier trade list post, I recently acquired four (4) Honeywell "Black Apple" Disk II floppy drives. These are up for trade. Kai (BTW, no, I'm not selling any of this stuff, send trade lists instead of offers to buy! Maybe I'll be interested in something that isn't on my want list) From ekman at lysator.liu.se Tue Aug 26 04:43:58 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708260944.KAA11990@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hello Fredrik, I would be most interested in the Sord equipment. I already have an M5 (and the CGL version) and I would love an M-23 & M-243 to go along with it. I am located in the UK so shipping isn't that far and electricity requirements are the same. As a collector I would also be interested in some of the other items you have. Regards -- Kevan Heydon Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From rcini at classic.msn.com Tue Aug 26 07:31:21 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Altair scans update Message-ID: For those who have asked... The Altair scans are ready to post, I just have to ZIP them up and send the tape to Bill Whitson. Does anyone have his physical address?? ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 26 09:18:49 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: bci-20.htm Message-ID: <199708261418.JAA00369@bsdserver.tek-star.net> BCI-2000 bci2000 Unibus Adapter for the PCI Bus _________________________________________________________________ The BCI-2000 Unibus Adapter enables Unibus devices to be connected to workstations supporting the PCI bus. The BCI-2000 supports both PIO and DMA Unibus data transfers as well as providing support for all four Unibus interrupt levels. The BCI-2000 consists of a single slot PCI controller, a dual-width Unibus cable adapter module, and an eight-foot shielded interconnect cable. The PCI controller occupies a single PCI slot. The Unibus cable adapter installs into the Unibus connectors A and B of an expansion chassis or user's equipment, replacing a Unibus cable. The BCI-2000 provides complete support for: * Unibus PIO data transfers including read word, data-input-pause, write word, and write byte. * Unibus DMA data transfers including read word, write word, and write byte. * All four Unibus interrupt levels: BR4, BR5, BR6, and BR7. _________________________________________________________________ Features Provides a migration path. The BCI-2000 allows users of Unibus systems to migrate to the new high performance PCI workstations and retain their existing Unibus I/O devices without loss of function or performance. High performance. Unibus PIO and DMA data transfers occur at maximum Unibus speeds -- throughput is limited only by the Unibus device. Cost savings. The BCI-2000 provides users the choice of low cost, high performance PCI workstations while retaining their existing investments in Unibus hardware and software. Easy to install. The BCI-2000 allows multiple I/O devices to be connected to a workstation while occupying only a single PCI-slot. Easy to maintain. The BCI-2000 executes a comprehensive set of diagnostics to automatically verify module operation. _________________________________________________________________ Description PIO Transfers The BCI-2000 supports the four types of Unibus PIO data transfers including read word, data-input-pause, write word, and write byte. The entire Unibus address space is available for access by a PCI host. DMA Transfers The BCI-2000 provides full compatibility with the three types of Unibus DMA data transfers, including word read, write word and, write byte. Single and multiple data transfers are supported. Interrupts The BCI-2000 passes Unibus interrupts to the host for service if interrupts are enabled by the host and the interrupts are higher priority than the priority established under software control. The BCI-2000 stores the 8-bit interrupt vector in an internal register that is referenced by the host to determine the interrupt service requested. Unibus Termination The BCI-2000 provides Unibus termination for one end of the Unibus. The user must ensure the Unibus is terminated at the end of the Unibus within the expansion chassis or the user's equipment. Unibus Parity Unibus parity signals PA and PB are terminated but otherwise not supported by the BCI-2000. _________________________________________________________________ Software Compatibility The BCI-2000 is not supported under existing OpenVMS, Ultrix, or OSF/1 operating system software and requires software drivers to support the features offered bu the BCI-2000. Consult our factory for more information. Specifications Physical Dimensions PCI controllerSingle width card, 6.875 inches by 4.2 inches (17.46 cm by 10.67 cm) Unibus Cable AdapterDual-width Unibus module, 5.s inches by 2.3 inches (13.s cm by 5.8 cm.) Cable Length8 ft. Electrical BCI-2000-A3.8 amps @ 5.0 volts (+/- twelve volts not used) Bus Loading1 dc load, 2 ac loads Bus Drive Capability19 additional dc loads Environmental Operating Conditions: Temperature 5° to 50° C (41° to 122° F) Relative Humidity20% to 80% noncondensing Storage Conditions: Temperature-40° to 66° C (-40° to 150°F) Relative Humidity10% to 95% noncondensing Ordering Information BCI-2000-CAPCI controller without memory, Unibus cable adapter, 8-foot cable and user manual. BCI-2000-AAPCI controller with 256KB memory, Unibus cable adapter, 8-foot cable and user manual. BCI-2000-BAPCI controller with 1MB memory, Unibus cable adapter, 8-foot cable and user manual. _________________________________________________________________ Digital, Unibus and OpenVMS are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation. UNIX is a trademark of X/Open Company Ltd.. We reserve the right to improve our products without notice. _________________________________________________________________ 75 Gateway Boulevard, Cottage Grove, Oregon 97424 USA Tel: (541) 942-3610 Fax: (541) 942-3640 E-Mail: sales@logical-co.com Logical's Home About Logical Product Info Warranty Support _________________________________________________________________ From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Tue Aug 26 09:29:34 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: What the heck...? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970826072934.00e71e90@mail.wizards.net> Ok, I give... >Mike has those 500 HHC e-proms for sale -- that will go for scrap if we >don't rescue them. I can afford to buy them one-lump, but I can't afford >actually _keeping_ them (I offered to take up to 30 pounds myself...) so >here's the deal I asked him for: What in blazes is an HHC EPROM??? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From manney at nwohio.com Tue Aug 26 09:39:08 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708261454.HAA20170@mx5.u.washington.edu> > I also have windows3.0 which will run on a 640k > xt! > > Allison Hmm...I've got Windows /386 ("Part of the upgrade path to OS/2", the package proudly announces.) Ever played with Geoworks? That would run on an XT, and very nicely, too. Had several improvements over Windows, including "sticky" menus which could be detached and moved. *Very* nice drawing program -- much better than Paintbrush. I liked it better than Windows. Manney p.s. dug up 3 sealed, boxed sets of OS/2 2.1 (not over 10 yrs old...sorry). Anyone interested? From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 26 10:00:32 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000+ In-Reply-To: <199708261454.HAA20170@mx5.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Aug 26, 97 10:39:08 am Message-ID: <199708261500.LAA29808@hiway1.exit109.com> Hi all! This is one I've been meaning to get info on for a while... Some time ago, I picked up a Kaypro 2000+ laptop, minus power supply. Does anyone have a pinout for the 5-pin DIN plug which, I assume, is the power connector? Thanks... <<>> From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 26 10:28:28 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? Message-ID: I was curious. I have the pinout in the 11/44 book, but it doesn't say what any of the pins do. I have something I want to try, but to try it I'd need to know what the pins do. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Aug 26 06:46:29 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000+ In-Reply-To: <199708261500.LAA29808@hiway1.exit109.com> References: <199708261454.HAA20170@mx5.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Aug 26, 97 10:39:08 am Message-ID: <199708261544.LAA21320@mail.cgocable.net> John, and anyone interested in this matter... Wow, once again, I hear that you have one too, I had one but in real bad shape. (Butchered by a IDIOT, plastic parts cut up, missing parts! Even all those in that replacement floppy drive capacitors leads are all idiocially twisted together. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! More info interested especially guts inside that kaypro 2000 series. Thanks. What I was able to determine: It's a XT clone version of a 8088, uses standard CMOS (!!) TTL and IC's, has on board DC-DC astec convertor, not sure which is for. It uses 3.5" 720k fd on right side. It uses MASSIVE 4.8v NiCd cylinder pack I think resting in back pan towards under the LCD display. The keyboard uses phone connector type. I did not recall that it had DIN 5 connector on that thing? How did the Floppy drive connects by what? That part is missing when I had it. When I had it, the display is so DIM, that you need a good eye to see the faint washed out characters, in short order, a small signal transistor cracked in two when I was at it! Then I gave up on it because the damage was VAST on it. Too much damage to list: missing parts, sawen off plastic parts to fit the replacement fd, much more. :( LCD does it has a backlight at all and very good contrast? Jason D. > Hi all! > > This is one I've been meaning to get info on for a while... > > Some time ago, I picked up a Kaypro 2000+ laptop, minus power supply. > Does anyone have a pinout for the 5-pin DIN plug which, I assume, is > the power connector? > > Thanks... <<>> From ekman at lysator.liu.se Tue Aug 26 11:30:29 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers In-Reply-To: <199708260702.AAA10211@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Sam Ismail wrote: > If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get > together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs > around to get some of this over here. This is an excellent idea. So far, I only have one interested American, but if others get in touch with me we will try to organize something. Be aware, though, that things will probably take some time. I don't have ready access to the attic in question and before we even start planning I will need to meet and discuss with a few people. /F From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 26 12:10:53 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get > > together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs > > around to get some of this over here. > > This is an excellent idea. So far, I only have one interested American, > but if others get in touch with me we will try to organize something. Be > aware, though, that things will probably take some time. I don't have > ready access to the attic in question and before we even start planning I > will need to meet and discuss with a few people. Sounds good to me. I'm in. Let's find out how many other people are interested and see if it will be fiscally possible. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 26 12:34:19 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 26, 97 10:28:28 am Message-ID: <199708261734.KAA24076@fraser> Hi: I had the same question, and Tim Shoppa lent me a book that (unfortunately) only provides a technical description of the UNIBUS, specifying line names etc. This is great but the bad part is that the book does not cross reference the lines to particular pins on the backplane. I want to poke and prod the backplane with a VOM due to an unfortunate power supply blowup (read as "I goofed!") and am still going to be unable to do this. The text does "name" particular pins, but the naming system is not self-evident nor does it seem to follow a logical association with the backplane slots. Most of the pins start with A through F, but beyond that it's not possible to figure out which pin is which. > I was curious. I have the pinout in the 11/44 book, but it doesn't say > what any of the pins do. I have something I want to try, but to try it > I'd need to know what the pins do. If you find out, please let me know! Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 26 13:02:34 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? In-Reply-To: <199708261734.KAA24076@fraser> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > The text does "name" particular pins, but the naming system is not > self-evident nor does it seem to follow a logical association > with the backplane slots. Most of the pins start with A through F, but > beyond that it's not possible to figure out which pin is which. OK... The convention is very logical when you get used to it. In general, a pin number consists of 4 parts, normally a number, a letter in the range A-F, a letter in the range A-U, and a number in the range 1-2. Sometimes the first 2 parts are swapped round, giving the letter first. OK. The first number tells you which card on the backplane to look at. If you are looking at the board side of the backplane with the component side of the cards on the right (the normal way up), then slot 1 is on the right. For example, on a PDP11/44, slot 1 contains the M7090 card (and sometimes the M7091). On an 11/45, slot 1 contains the M930 terminator, the KW11-L line time clock (I forget the M-number), and the KM11 test connectors. The first letter tells you which connector in the slot to look at. A is the top/rearmost slot, F is the bottom/front one. Taking the 2 examples above, the M7090 or M930 cards go in connectors A and B. Note that a quad card (like many SPC cards) fits into connectors C-F. DEC were _not_ consistent here - some printsets for such cards call the connectors on the board C-F, others call them A-D. It's normally indicated on the overlay diagram in the printset, though. The second letter tells you which of the 18 pins on one side of the connector to look at. This uses the 'DEC Alphabet' where some characters were left out to avoid confusion with badly printed manuals, etc. The sequence is A B C D E F H J K L M N P R S T U V . A is the top/rearmost pin (closest to slot A). The last digit gives the side of the board. 1 is the component side, 2 is the solder side. > > I was curious. I have the pinout in the 11/44 book, but it doesn't say > > what any of the pins do. I have something I want to try, but to try it > > I'd need to know what the pins do. Note that most of the signals are _active low_. I think grants are just about the only exception to this. OK, from memory, the main ones are : A0-A17 - Unibus Address lines D0-D15 - Unibus Data lines PA,PB - Parity control lines (memory parity, per byte?) C0,C1 - Control lines. Indicate one of 4 bus cycles - Word Write, Byte Write, (Word) Read, Word Read, but don't restore memory contents MSyn - Master Sync. A signal from the bus master, telling the slave to look at the address/data/control lines. Think of it as being like a 68000 DS* SSyn - Slave Sync. A signal from the slave to the master indicating that it recognises the address. Like DTACK on a 68000 BRn - Bus Request - signal from peripheral to indicate it wants to cause a interrupt BGn - Bus Grant - signal to the peripheral indicating that it can output a interrupt vector. Note that each slot has BG in and BG out lines. The interrupting peripheral does _not_ pass on the grant, all others do. So the peripheral nearest to the CPU has the highest priority. Intr - Interrupt. Signal output by the peripheral along with an interrupt vector, indicating that it is a vector on the bus NPR - Non-Processor Request. A DMA request line NPG - Non-Processor Grant. DMA Grant line, used like BGn above. SACK - Select acknowledge. Used to indicate that the peripheral has received the grant and is taking the bus Gnd - Ground, 0V, etc +5V, +15V, -15V - Obvious! ACLO, DCLO - power fail signals from the PSU to the system LTC - Pulse that occurs every mains cycle, used by the real time clock. > > If you find out, please let me know! > > Kevin -tony From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 26 12:25:42 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Altair scans update Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F58399@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> If you can't get ahold of Bill, I have a lot of upload bandwidth. c/o 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 Kai > ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr.[SMTP:rcini@classic.msn.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 5:31 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair scans update > > For those who have asked... > > The Altair scans are ready to post, I just have to ZIP them up and > send the > tape to Bill Whitson. Does anyone have his physical address?? > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Rich Cini/WUGNET > > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking > From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 26 16:51:44 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 26, 97 07:02:34 pm Message-ID: <199708262151.OAA28681@fraser> Thanks Tony! Therefore I will type up a list of the pin assignements and post it to the list this evening or tomorrow. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From rcini at classic.msn.com Tue Aug 26 19:59:28 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: More VAX Questions Message-ID: Hello, all: On a VAX, what is the external drive cable called? It seems to be a three-row 50-pin DIN connector that I can't find anywhere (even Digi-Key), much less a cable of that type. Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 26 22:28:52 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: More VAX Questions In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Aug 27, 97 00:59:28 am Message-ID: <9708270228.AA19973@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1128 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970826/249bcebe/attachment.ksh From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Aug 27 07:22:41 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Lost my e-mail! Message-ID: Hello, all: If anyone has sent me any e-mail since yesterday 8/26 at 5pm, please resend it. Somehow, Exchange and Windows 95 trashed my e-mail store. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Wed Aug 27 16:53:07 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: H742 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 26, 97 07:02:34 pm Message-ID: <199708272153.OAA23258@fraser> Hi Tony: My new MJ3000 arrived today, I'll install it and let you know whether my +15 returns. Thanks for your assistance, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Aug 27 19:22:20 1997 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: UNISYS to give away In-Reply-To: <199707110702.AAA14784@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hello all, I just spotted this on the austin.forsale news group. I have no other connection with the guy or the computer. Hope someone can use this. (Hmm. I hope the UNISYS is > 10 years old ... if not, please excuse me.) - Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: coqui.ccf.swri.edu!news.sesqui.net!academ!cs.utexas.edu!news-relay.us.dell.com!j ump.net!news-fw!news.mpd!newsgate.tandem.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news -hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.spr intlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!uunet!in5.uu.net!news.eden.com!news.eden. com!yakuza.fc.net!pm1-1.tab.com From: Scratch Newsgroups: austin.forsale Subject: Free computer and Stuff Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 02:47:41 -0600 Organization: Freeside Communications Lines: 12 Message-ID: <3402982D.689C@tab.com> Reply-To: scratch@tab.com NNTP-Posting-Host: jade.tab.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Xref: coqui.ccf.swri.edu austin.forsale:86491 I am giving away a GE dishwasher, A UNYSIS mainframe computer, printer, disk subsytem and a old metal school teachers desk (disassembled) and matching chair to anyone who can come get it out of my garage FREE. Please e-mail me. -- Ron E. Marks http://www.tab.com/~scratch/home.html Austin, Texas Those who know use MACINTOSH...those who don't, call "Tech Support" From danjo at xnet.com Wed Aug 27 18:02:15 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? Message-ID: Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software but what was/is the operating system? BC From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Aug 27 18:16:24 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? Message-ID: <01IMXX6IEO5EBEVQMN@cc.usu.edu> > Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used > to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software > but what was/is the operating system? PICK is the operating system. PICK is a combination operating system/programming language/user environment. It was created by Dick Pick on a military computer (I think one of those militarized UNIVAC thingies) and ported to a variety of other machines. AFAIK all legitimate ports were done by Dick Pick himself, although the book I found talks about people cloning PICK without Dick's permission (since this is a book of the "PICK rah, rah, rah!" variety, this is said to be a Bad Thing). Personally, it looked to me like there were holes in the PICK system you could drive a truck through; security seems to be done mostly through obscurity. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From danjo at xnet.com Wed Aug 27 20:41:10 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? In-Reply-To: <01IMXX6IEO5EBEVQMN@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Roger Ivie wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Brett wrote: > > Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used > > to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software > > but what was/is the operating system? > > PICK is the operating system. Ok 8-) What else should run on this hardware then? The box would make a Great desk half. And if it worked - that would be Better then! Maybe I should look around for hardware manuals 8-) BC From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 27 21:17:28 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Kaypro II help needed Message-ID: <970827221615_1918577820@emout20.mail.aol.com> I decided to drag out my kaypro II for testing/cataloging/photos and noticed it's even worse than before. previously, i was able to boot a cpm disk but got no keyboard activity. now, it powers on, spins the floppy a few rotations, then prompts to place a disk in drive a: and no more than that. hitting the reset button didnt do anything. it keeps coming back to the same screen. while typing this note, i noticed it finally booted off a floppy in about 5 minutes' wait and now i'm getting no keyboard input (not even ^M or ^G) and the floppy light is staying on but not spinning. i do get an a: prompt though. someone mentioned the keyboard controller chip missing, but it's there. this machine has two half height floppies which i assume incorrect. would full height pc/xt drives be "correct"? what should i check now? david From indavis at juno.com Wed Aug 27 22:55:46 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: UNISYS to give away References: Message-ID: <19970827.225628.9982.1.indavis@juno.com> On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:22:20 -0700 Mark Tapley writes: >Hello all, > I just spotted this on the austin.forsale news group. I have >no >other connection with the guy or the computer. Hope someone can use >this. >(Hmm. I hope the UNISYS is > 10 years old ... if not, please excuse >me.) > - Mark >I am giving away a GE dishwasher, A UNYSIS mainframe computer, >printer, >disk subsytem and a old metal school teachers desk (disassembled) and >matching chair to anyone who can come get it out of my garage FREE. >Please e-mail me. > Mark/Everyone, I was second on the list to pick this up, and had even talked to my boss and was told I could store it in my office, but only if I snuck it in on a weekend. The cpu weighs about 400lbs, the printer about 600lbs, and the drive rack w/drives about 1000lbs. I have the means to pick it up, but only temporary storage, and I doubt I could ever fire it up. I don't have 220 at my house, or in my office. Since there was someone ahead of me in the list of people that wanted it, and I haven't been told to come get it, I assume it's gone to a good home. I was thinking "would anyone on the list be interested in this monster?" If I do actually end up with it, I will post it here, and put it up for grabs. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 28 00:04:42 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:40 2005 Subject: Kaypro II help needed In-Reply-To: <970827221615_1918577820@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I decided to drag out my kaypro II for testing/cataloging/photos and noticed > it's even worse than before. previously, i was able to boot a cpm disk but > got no keyboard activity. now, it powers on, spins the floppy a few > rotations, then prompts to place a disk in drive a: and no more than that. > hitting the reset button didnt do anything. it keeps coming back to the same > screen. while typing this note, i noticed it finally booted off a floppy in > about 5 minutes' wait and now i'm getting no keyboard input (not even ^M or Try cleaning the drive heads. You may also want to check its alignment if you know how. > ^G) and the floppy light is staying on but not spinning. i do get an a: > prompt though. someone mentioned the keyboard controller chip missing, but > it's there. this machine has two half height floppies which i assume > incorrect. would full height pc/xt drives be "correct"? what should i check > now? Perhaps your keyboard cord is defective? The Kaypro II uses a phone cord. Make sure the phone cord you are using is RJ14 and not RJ11. RJ14 is four conductor while RJ11 is only 2 conductor. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From bcoakley at teleport.com Fri Aug 1 02:25:04 1997 From: bcoakley at teleport.com (Ben Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:41 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: <33E15EB3.A6C0BEAD@rain.org> Message-ID: Well, this is sort of a general question, and I'm sure somebody here can answer it, but it fits with the subject line, at least: There's a TRS-80 model 2000 in a local thrift (same one where I got a Commodore Plus 4 in its original box today). It's a beautiful machine, about the size of the crummy XT clones lying around, with two floppies and a CM-1 monitor. What else is hiding in there? It doesn't, perhaps, have a hard drive, does it? The case could certainly hold it. Thanks, -- Ben Coakley CBEL: Xavier OH bcoakley@teleport.com http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Aug 1 02:56:00 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:42 2005 Subject: Free Computer Books & Stuff! References: <33DABF38.2775@oboe.calpoly.edu> Message-ID: <33E19690.35D4@oboe.calpoly.edu> All of the books mentioned in this post are spoken for. Thanks for all the response! I'm still digging and will probably add some more stuff soon. Greg > TRS-80 Model 100 Manuals: > Apple Lot: > Commodore Geos Lot: From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 1 02:37:23 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:42 2005 Subject: First Annual Vintage Computer Festival Message-ID: I've decided to go ahead with plans for the First Annual Vintage Computer Festival!!! This is a call to all parties interested in participating with the planning and development of the show. I have directed this e-mail to specific individuals in my local area (sorry if I missed anyone) as well as to the entire classiccmp group. I welcome your support and would appreciate if you who are local could pledge your help in developing and participating in the show. I also welcome and would appreciate the support of anyone not local to the San Francisco Bay Area who is interested in donating your time to the show. Please contact me if you are interested. I hope to assemble the core development team within the next week and to hold a kick-off party on Saturday, August 9th where a team will be assembled, the project will be discussed and team members will be assigned tasks. I am hoping to run the show during a weekend in the middle of October. Currently, as I have it layed out, there are a couple hundred man hours of work to be done in order to pull this off. I think with enough people committed, this can be pulled off in time to host the show by October. Please e-mail me if interested. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From kevan at motiv.co.uk Fri Aug 1 03:56:28 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:42 2005 Subject: Some machines available... Message-ID: <199708010856.JAA15822@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi all, I recently got an email offering me these computers... > If you ship it you can have them. I havev one of the largest > commulations of computers and related in the north east US. I am culling > out so this is an opportunity to get lots of stuff. How about the whole > line of IBM xt, at ps2 model 30, 55, 50 , 50z,70 just to name a few > come over or call or email me. holmstea@idt.net 802-985-8081 I am in > Vermont.USA I said I wasn't interested and in reply I got: > forgive me for being so presumptious I have also Heith H8 a DPS6 a > Charles River Universe 68, Nec starlets cpm, digital rainbows. digital > RAO80 zilog 8000 IBM system 36's lots more!!! If anybody is interested then contact him directly. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From rcini at msn.com Fri Aug 1 07:37:03 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Model 100 Stuff: What's a DVI Message-ID: To all of those that asked what the Model 100 DVI is... Ths Disk-Video Interface is a rectangular box (mostly hollow), the size of half of a PC which enables the Model 100 to use 5-1/4" floppy disks and to hook-up to a standard composite monitor or a TV on channel 3 or 4. It could display 40x24 or 80x24 characters. Costing around $500, the unit typically (and I'd have to dig-out an old catalog to check; it's been a while) came with 1 or 2 floppy disk drives and had a built-in power supply. The companion monitor (an optional-extra) was a composite green-screen. The included diskette was for a simple disk-based DOS wedge for BASIC. Connection to the M100 was accomplished through a shielded, flat, 40-pin ribbon cable with a custom pin arangement that attached to the 40-pin DIP socket on the bottom of the M100. The standard DIP socket on the M100 was retrofitted with a ZIF socket to ease the stress on the cable. The insulation-displacement connector on the M100 side pearced the cable in a non-standard way, preventing meer mortals from making a cable on their own with parts from Digi-Key--I tried! BTW, replacements are $24 from Tandy Parts. As an aside, DOS disks are $5. As far as I know, the DVI came out before the other floppy drives for the M100, the PDD1 and PDD2. I hope that this clears things up. ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From rcini at msn.com Fri Aug 1 07:37:12 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Hacking TI Calculator Interface Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 08:52:36 -0400 (EDT) John Ruschmeyer wrote: >>Two places to check out: http://www.ticalc.org news:bit.listserv.calc-ti I beleive there are plans floating around for a $5 interface cable. Also, lots of 3rd party apps for the '85.<< John: Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out. Last night, for those hardware-hackers out there, I started developing a level shifter using a Maxxim MAX232 chip which draws power from the DSR line and has a couple of low-power LED indicators. I'm just trying to fit it into a DB9 shell... ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Fri Aug 1 07:58:24 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Weekend haul Message-ID: <199708010858_MC2-1C24-62F5@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >The SX-64 documentation makes reference to a DX-64. What's that -- 2 drives?< That was the plan; however, the DX model was never released. There are reports of a few of them floating around, but probably prototypes or user-hacked versions. From scott at saskatoon.com Fri Aug 1 08:52:23 1997 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Ben Coakley wrote: > There's a TRS-80 model 2000 in a local thrift (same one where I got a > Commodore Plus 4 in its original box today). It's a beautiful machine, > about the size of the crummy XT clones lying around, with two floppies and > a CM-1 monitor. What else is hiding in there? It doesn't, perhaps, have > a hard drive, does it? The case could certainly hold it. That machine is an 80186! (Nope, that's not a typo.) It's really not 'IBM' compatible, although it runs MS-DOS 2. That machine obviously must have the color card, if it comes with the CM-1 (I'd love one of those.) The 2k sported several big enhancements over the PC. The faster 186, 720k floppies (DSQD), 600x400x16colors, full 16 bit expansion slots. Overall it's a really cool machine. That's probably why it didn't survive. Some had a hard drive. If it was factory installed, the nameplate should read 'Model 2000HD.' You might also look for any labelling on the back. The HD controller might have some sort of stickers on it. (The cards are the long, 1/2" high metal strips on the back.) > Ben Coakley CBEL: Xavier OH bcoakley@teleport.com ttfn srw From idavis at comland.com Fri Aug 1 11:11:26 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Mainframe FS Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970801161126.008fd7ec@mail.comland.com> I don't know how old this is, or if it qualifies as classic, but I saw this on the local austin.forsale newsgroup. ============================================== Subject: Mainfame for trade STILL!!! From: Scratch Date: 1997/07/28 Message-Id: <33DCB872.6B74@tab.com> Newsgroups: austin.forsale [More Headers] I have a UNYSIS 2200/400 mainframe with 1210lpm impact printer and 6' hard disk tower with 10- 8" 1 gig Fujitsu drives. I can't seem to sell it so I will offer to trade it for anything MAC. QuadraAV or better. Or Sony 17" + monitor. -- Ron E. Marks scratch@tab.com http://www.tab.com/~scratch/home.html Austin, Texas ============================================ Hope this helps someone. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis@comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 1 11:25:19 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970801161126.008fd7ec@mail.comland.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Isaac Davis wrote: > ============================================== > Subject: Mainfame for trade STILL!!! > From: Scratch > Date: 1997/07/28 > Message-Id: <33DCB872.6B74@tab.com> > Newsgroups: austin.forsale > [More Headers] > > I have a UNYSIS 2200/400 mainframe with 1210lpm impact printer and 6' > hard disk tower with 10- 8" 1 gig Fujitsu drives. > > I can't seem to sell it so I will offer to trade it for anything MAC. > QuadraAV or better. Or Sony 17" + monitor. Well, Mac Quadra's are cheap these days (only a few hundred dollars) so if you think the Unisys is worth a few hundred dollars, go buy a cheap Mac and trade it with him. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 1 13:28:15 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 1, 97 09:25:19 am Message-ID: <9708011728.AA10371@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 856 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/f7cc099b/attachment-0001.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 1 08:43:28 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: <9708011728.AA10371@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 1, 97 09:25:19 am Message-ID: <199708011741.NAA13904@mail.cgocable.net> Well, I ask: Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive SMD drives in between? Sorry if I look foolish. :) Thanks! Jason D. > The 1 gig Fujitsu SMD drives (I assume these are 238x's or 239x's) are > commonly sold by mini dealers for several hundred dollars each. > Take a look in one of the mini rags (like _Processor_) > for price sheets. > > I just bought about 1300 lbs. of SMD drives, otherwise I'd be > interested in grabbing some of the above-mentioned Fujitsus for my own PC. > > Tim. > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 1 16:11:16 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS In-Reply-To: <199708011741.NAA13904@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca" at Aug 1, 97 01:43:28 pm Message-ID: <9708012011.AA09734@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 903 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/144e1719/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 1 17:17:40 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. Message-ID: For $18 I got... a DW11-A Unibus to Q-Bus interface! One quad height and one double height board. I'm assuming the Quad-height one is the Unibus end. All I need are the ribbon cables to connect them... and an M8012-YA Qbus Terminator/Bootstrap. What does this boot? From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 1 17:34:40 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Some machines available... References: <199708010856.JAA15822@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <33E26480.88B56F32@rain.org> Kevan Heydon wrote: > > If you ship it you can have them. I havev one of the largest > > commulations of computers and related in the north east US. I am > culling > > out so this is an opportunity to get lots of stuff. How about the > whole > > line of IBM xt, at ps2 model 30, 55, 50 , 50z,70 just to name a few > > > come over or call or email me. holmstea@idt.net 802-985-8081 I am in > > > Vermont.USA I just talked with Harold (Harold Olmstead) and he wasn't kidding when he said it was a LARGE collection. It sounds like the total collection is somewhere in the 3+ semis full of computers with, volumewise, about 20% being mainframes, 30% being minis, and the rest micros along with monitors, printers, etc. He also has a lot of documentation and software to go along with some of this stuff. I wish I lived next door!!! He is moving to New Jersey and would like to do something in the next month or so. He indicated if anyone is interested, to just give him a call or email. He has talked with a number of other people and while he doesn't currently have a list of these computers, will start to put one together with the things he has. Trying to move a collection that large is not financially feasible for myself, but if anyone else here on the West Coast is interested, I'm willing to co-ordinate whatever is necessary to bring some of or all of the collection back here. I told him I would post a note to that effect here on the listserver so he would be aware of what might be going on, and it was fine with him. It is difficult to do anything without a list of the equipment involved, but hopefully that will be forthcoming! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 1 18:36:32 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 1, 97 05:17:40 pm Message-ID: <9708012236.AA10738@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/049a4f5b/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 1 17:47:47 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. In-Reply-To: <9708012236.AA10738@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > The default boot ROM's know how to do RL01/02, RX01/02, RK05, and > (I think - never tried it) TU58. You can also blow your own PROM's > with other bootstraps (i.e. DU: for MSCP disks) if you wish. > How do you tell it which device to boot? There are two switches on it. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 1 14:07:39 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Some machines available... In-Reply-To: <33E26480.88B56F32@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708012307.TAA26025@mail.cgocable.net> Hello! Just let us know with this decent list of stuff. :) I was looking for Model 70 that has 25mhz cached 386 CPU. (my long time wish and reputated to be fastest PC of its time) that all. And, compaq stuff? Snip! Impressively partial list of stuff... > > I just talked with Harold (Harold Olmstead) and he wasn't kidding when > he said it was a LARGE collection. It sounds like the total collection > is somewhere in the 3+ semis full of computers with, volumewise, about > 20% being mainframes, 30% being minis, and the rest micros along with > monitors, printers, etc. He also has a lot of documentation and > software to go along with some of this stuff. I wish I lived next > door!!! He is moving to New Jersey and would like to do something in > the next month or so. He indicated if anyone is interested, to just > give him a call or email. He has talked with a number of other people > and while he doesn't currently have a list of these computers, will > start to put one together with the things he has. > > Trying to move a collection that large is not financially feasible for > myself, but if anyone else here on the West Coast is interested, I'm > willing to co-ordinate whatever is necessary to bring some of or all of > the collection back here. I told him I would post a note to that effect > here on the listserver so he would be aware of what might be going on, > and it was fine with him. It is difficult to do anything without a list > of the equipment involved, but hopefully that will be forthcoming! I would agree that is where we would need to split up all the hardware and mail to each who wants specific stuff. Jason D. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 1 19:36:11 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 1, 97 05:17:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1466 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/9cd5e412/attachment-0001.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 1 22:02:38 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Boards I bought. Message-ID: <199708020302.AA20470@world.std.com> Mr Seagraves finds... from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 1, 97 05:47:47 pm Message-ID: <9708020512.AA12235@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 825 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970801/cde2820b/attachment-0001.ksh From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sat Aug 2 05:39:26 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info Message-ID: <199708021039.GAA13318@unix.aardvarkol.com> At 07:52 AM 8/1/97 -0600, you wrote: >That machine is an 80186! (Nope, that's not a typo.) It's really not >'IBM' compatible, although it runs MS-DOS 2. That machine obviously must >have the color card, if it comes with the CM-1 (I'd love one of those.) >The 2k sported several big enhancements over the PC. The faster 186, 720k >floppies (DSQD), 600x400x16colors, full 16 bit expansion slots. Overall >it's a really cool machine. That's probably why it didn't survive. As long as programmers used BIOS calls instead of writing directly to the video hardware and such, the 2k would run a lot of PC software just fine. I've got a list around here somewhere of what PC software was known to work with it. I ran the basic PC versions of Wordstar and Norton Utilities on mine for a long time, though things such as Framework required special video drivers. Also, communications programs didn't like the machine, unless they used a fossil driver to access the serial port, such as GTPower. I enjoyed making new fonts for the machine to boot into, as it's system font was loaded into RAM on startup, making it quite customizable. As for the CM-1, that is one nice monitor. I never could find one though, so I ended up using an early NEC Multisync on mine for a while. >Some had a hard drive. If it was factory installed, the nameplate should >read 'Model 2000HD.' You might also look for any labelling on the back. >The HD controller might have some sort of stickers on it. (The cards are >the long, 1/2" high metal strips on the back.) My 2k started life as a dual-floppy model, and then I added a Seagate ST-225 internally later. I was kind of a pain finding the piggyback hard disk power supply and mounting bracket for the drive though! I also had the color video board, 640k RAM, and a clock/mouse board. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sat Aug 2 05:46:19 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: MicroVax II Message-ID: <199708021046.GAA13569@unix.aardvarkol.com> Well, it looks like I may be rescuing, or at least try to, a MicroVax II on monday. There is a local business, about 30 miles from here, that wants to dispose of one, and I got contacted to try and rescue it. According to the guy I talked to, it has 2-35meg HD's, and 5meg of RAM in it, and I'd just be getting the main system unit. Could someone give me some general info on this machine, such as a guess as to the weight of it? Thanks. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kyrrin at wizards.net Sat Aug 2 08:59:34 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <199708020702.AAA00838@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970802065934.00e15cc0@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 02-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:43:28 +0000 >From: jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: SCSI to SMD convertor board? was: Re: Mainframe FS >Message-ID: <199708011741.NAA13904@mail.cgocable.net> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >Well, I ask: > >Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive >SMD drives in between? Not foolish at all! ;-) There is indeed at least one SCSI/SMD bridge board I know of. Adaptec made them, but they're not easy to find. Model number was ACB-5580. I have exactly ONE of these that I need to hang onto to test drives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at wizards.net Sat Aug 2 09:08:13 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Impossible? Not! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970802070813.00f84d10@mail.wizards.net> Someone sent me an E-mail not long ago that, in a very confident tone, advised me that my quest to find an RRD40 or RRD50 would fail, as the controllers were 'impossible' to find. Never say 'Impossible!' to a technoid. ;-) I just closed a deal for TWO RRD40 CD drives, one controller, cabling, and technical manual, all for $65 + shipping & COD charge. As a point of interest, another company out of Chico, CA offered me an RRD50 for $40, and a controller for $125! (sheesh!) I've told them (politely) no, thanks, on the controller. However, it occurs to me that there may not be any difference in the controller for the RRD40 and RRD50. Allison or Tim? Is this, in fact, a true statement? Can either drive be used with the M7552 controller? If so, I'll just order the drive from them and hunt around for another controller later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Aug 2 05:17:20 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970802065934.00e15cc0@mail.wizards.net> References: <199708020702.AAA00838@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199708021417.KAA19490@mail.cgocable.net> Hello! :) > > > >Does there is a device already invented to use common SCSI to drive > >SMD drives in between? > > > > Not foolish at all! ;-) There is indeed at least one SCSI/SMD bridge board > I know of. Adaptec made them, but they're not easy to find. Model number > was ACB-5580. Wonderful...now, what exactly how expensive are used pulls SMD 1gb or up drives are? Suppose I now I have the little dandy SCSI/SMD bridge board and a normal SCSI host controller in a PC driving whole thing and even boot from that SMD drive? There is performance difference between the 3.5" middle of the range SCSI II fast to a good SMD hd? > I have exactly ONE of these that I need to hang onto to test drives. Pout... :) If responses looks good, why not if I would get 8" SMD drive and amaze them with it on a PC. :)) Snickers! :) Jason D. PS: thanks for correcting me 'bout the homemade Ti graph link. In fact, I am glad that is possible to do that, btw, I have that Ti 83. The screen is much better than the older types and just bit faster. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:20:39 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <199708021417.KAA19490@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca" at Aug 2, 97 10:17:20 am Message-ID: <9708021620.AA12875@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 370 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/657198f9/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:24:20 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Impossible? Not! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970802070813.00f84d10@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 2, 97 07:08:13 am Message-ID: <9708021624.AA12617@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 946 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/f2027332/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:28:52 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: MicroVax II In-Reply-To: <199708021046.GAA13569@unix.aardvarkol.com> from "Jeff Hellige" at Aug 2, 97 06:46:19 am Message-ID: <9708021628.AA06151@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 987 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/405b5bef/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 2 12:54:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 132 In-Reply-To: <9708021620.AA12875@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 2, 97 09:20:39 am Message-ID: <9708021654.AA12817@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970802/5d7e0d6e/attachment-0001.ksh From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Sat Aug 2 14:09:46 1997 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Litton Industries's Monrobot XI? Message-ID: <33E385F9.620F@xlisper.mv.com> Has anyone ever heard of the Litton Industries's Monrobot XI? It's the first computer I ever programmed. This was back around 1967. It was a machine built into a desk with an electric typewriter and a papertape reader. I'd love to find one or any information about them. I've got an old programming card for Quickcomp, an assembly level language for it but that's all. I'd also like to find an IBM 1620 although that machine is probably too big for the space I have available. -- David Betz dbetz@xlisper.mv.com DavidBetz@aol.com (603) 472-2389 From gram at terra.cnct.com Sat Aug 2 18:37:32 1997 From: gram at terra.cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: <33E15EB3.A6C0BEAD@rain.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, Marvin wrote: > went along with them. He is willing to help however he can. He also > turned my on to another guy active with TRS stuff, Dave Lagerquist. > Dave took over as editor-in-chief of CLOAD Magazine in July 1980. On > top of that, Dave lives here in Santa Barbara, so another part of my > project will be compiling a history of CLOAD magazine. So if any of you > TRS people have any questions for either Brian or Dave, pass them Along with "CLOAD", don't neglect "Chromasette" and "SilverSoft". Those were the cassette and disk magazines for the Color Computer and the PC respectively. Good stuff. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From scm at smorang.enm.maine.edu Sat Aug 2 20:08:13 1997 From: scm at smorang.enm.maine.edu (Stacy C. Morang) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Televideo TS1603 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > Its a Televideo 1603. What's interesting about this system for one thing > is that it was made by Televideo, whom I thought only made terminals. It > has two 5.25" floppies integrated with a green monochrome monitor on a > swivel armature and a detached keyboard. On the back are two DB-25 serial > ports, a D-type connector RS-422 port, a telephone jack for a mouse (which > I didn't get), and two dipswitch blocks. Inside it has an 8088 and a > 6502! I was talking to Doug Coward tonight about it and he suggested that > the 6502 was for the terminal operation, and the 8088 was actually the > main processor. This makes sense, but I was wondering if anyone knew more > about it. > I may have some software for it... but it's not handy right now (stored away) - drop me a note if you need it (I'd bet that it is an old ms-dos or cp/m set, but it might have some unique televideo bits to it. > WAITING FOR HARD DISK..... > > on the WD controller chip. I think perhaps the RS-422 port is where > you'd hook the hard drive to. Really? Seems more like a balanced line serial port (I have a dim recollection that 422 and 423 are the same, and 423 definitely is balanced rs-232, unless I'm completely off). -stacy -- Stacy C. Morang, Communications Specialist Education Network of Maine scm@access.enm.maine.edu, smorang@enm.maine.edu So long, and keep your stick on the ice. From gram at terra.cnct.com Sat Aug 2 20:52:45 1997 From: gram at terra.cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Ben Coakley wrote: > There's a TRS-80 model 2000 in a local thrift (same one where I got a > Commodore Plus 4 in its original box today). It's a beautiful machine, > about the size of the crummy XT clones lying around, with two floppies and > a CM-1 monitor. What else is hiding in there? It doesn't, perhaps, have > a hard drive, does it? The case could certainly hold it. If it has two floppies, the odds are that it doesn't have a hard drive, though the upgrade was available at a usurous price. Then again, a 2000HD could have a second floppy added, another rare choice. It is indeed a beautiful machine. It's not PC compatible in hardware, since there wasn't a standard 16-bit bus until the AT came out a year later and 25% slower. But in my arrogant opinion, it had the best keyboard ever attached to a MS-DOS computer -- mine was (aside from being my main telecom machine for years) my favorite terminal to my Model 16 and my 3B1. It also was a nifty serial/parallel converter (with 512k buffer) between everything else and my MX-80 (512k is about a night's worth of printing on an early MX-80, after all). -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Aug 2 21:48:55 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Televideo TS1603 Message-ID: <199708030248.AA07149@world.std.com> Message-ID: <33E28387.7BB4@goldrush.com> RE: Enrico's Query about Apple IIs... I looked the first time I went to the sale and found mainly ][ pluses, a couple ][es (one with extended keyboard, a couple ][cs, and a few ]I[s... But If I see a ][, I'll see about getting it... RE: Marvin about PCjr help... I think the customer has a PCjr or Two and is looking for expansion stuff and programs for it... I dunno, best I could suggest to her was an area thrift store which always seems to have PCjrs coming in... :/ Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From kyrrin at wizards.net Sun Aug 3 11:13:39 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: <199708030702.AAA09506@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970803091339.00f79e50@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 03-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 06:46:19 -0400 >From: Jeff Hellige >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: MicroVax II >Message-ID: <199708021046.GAA13569@unix.aardvarkol.com> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Well, it looks like I may be rescuing, or at least try to, a >MicroVax II on monday. There is a local business, about 30 miles from here, >that wants to dispose of one, and I got contacted to try and rescue it. >According to the guy I talked to, it has 2-35meg HD's, and 5meg of RAM in >it, and I'd just be getting the main system unit. Could someone give me >some general info on this machine, such as a guess as to the weight of it? Weight: About 40-50 lbs. Not bad at all, really. Some PC full-towers tip the scales around there. Sizewise, they're about as tall as a full-tower, but deeper and skinnier. You can probably lift one in your arms without a huge problem. With the hardware that's in it, you could easily run OpenVMS, MicroVMS, regular VMS (I think -- someone check me on that, please?), Ultrix, or NetBSD. I know the guy I wrote to said there were no docs or diags with it, but... if by some miracle he was wrong, I'd like to get a copy of any diagnostics that you might get with it. Best of luck, and thanks for responding! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From s-ware at nwu.edu Sun Aug 3 11:22:06 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles In-Reply-To: <9708012011.AA09734@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: Does anyone know of a good source of the "ubiquitous" DEC keys, specifically one of the normal keys (for a PDP-11/10) and one of the cylindrical keys (for a PDP-11/24)? Otherwise, if anyone has a stash of spares or is willing to make duplicates, let me know. Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. The only place on this machine that looks like a likely candidate for console connection is a double height module (an M9970 Berg backplane connector) that is essentially unpopulated except for traces connecting the backplane to a single Berg connector. Is this the serial interface? If so, are there any configuration options (on another board), or am I stuck using what I assume is a fixed 110 baud 20 mA current loop interface (or digging up something else, such as a DL11-W)? -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Aug 3 12:34:20 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970803091339.00f79e50@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 3, 97 09:13:39 am Message-ID: <9708031634.AA13615@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2526 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970803/9ab11219/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Aug 3 12:44:26 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles In-Reply-To: from "Scott Ware" at Aug 3, 97 11:22:06 am Message-ID: <9708031644.AA13487@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1710 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970803/b47b2abc/attachment-0001.ksh From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Sun Aug 3 17:59:59 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles Message-ID: <009B83BF.85EE23F5.23@siva.bris.ac.uk> >There are three sorts of commonly-found DEC keys: > >1. The metal cylinder-lock keys. These are found on -8's, most older (pre Didn't the 8/a have a PDP11/34-style knob for the power switch and no key at all? >11/24, 11/44, 11/84, 11/94) Unibux -11's, and some other boxes. These >are standard ACE cylinder keys, with pattern # XX2247. Any competent >locksmith ought to be able to make one of these for you (though you >may need to be friendly with the locksmith - almost all ACE keys are >stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE"). > >2. The plastic cylinder keys. As of a few months ago, you could still >order these from DECDirect (1-800-DIGITAL) - the part number is 1217119-01. In my experience, key [1] will fit locks designed for key [2], but not vice versa. I use the XX2247 that came with my 11/45 for the 11/45, the 8/e, the DECSA, the 11/24, the 11/44, the 11/730, etc. Since lock [2] has no pins, probably just about any Ace tubular key will fit it. Lock [1] is a 'real' lock, however. >> Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. >> The only place on this machine that looks like a likely candidate for >> console connection is a double height module (an M9970 Berg backplane >> connector) that is essentially unpopulated except for traces connecting >> the backplane to a single Berg connector. Is this the serial interface? >> If so, are there any configuration options (on another board), or am I >> stuck using what I assume is a fixed 110 baud 20 mA current loop interface >> (or digging up something else, such as a DL11-W)? > >I'm not sure what the answer to this is. I thought the standard >console interface on a 11/10 was a DL11-W. Have you tried asking >on "vmsnet.pdp-11" on Usenet? Not at all : Both the 11/10 and 11/10S have a console port on the CPU board. On the 11/10S it's possible to disable this (fit/remove a link on one of the boards), and use a DL11 of some flavour instead. On the 5.25" box, the console port is the 40-pin BERG on the back of the CPU under the power cable. It's cabled to the backplane, where it is connected to the appropriate pins on the CPU board. I don't own a 10.5" 11/10, but I have worked on one. From memort, there is, indeed a dual-height card which contains the console connector (40 pin BERG) and no logic. Can't remember the M-number, and my prints are at home. It's the standard DEC serial connector. Current loop is certainly there, and I think at least one of the TTL and/or EIA connections are there as well. This may depend on which CPU board set you have, however. I seem to recall pinouts/cable lists are on one of the PDP_8_ web sites. 11/10's use an RC clock for the baud rate generator. It's tweakable by a preset on one of the boards - check it at pin 40 of the UART (the only 40 pin chip in the CPU), and set to 16 times the baud rate. I think the 11/10S uses an Xtal clock, and there's a switch to set standard rates. The RC clock does 110 baud as standard, but can be tweaked at least to 300 baud. You can change (reduce) the timing capacitor to get higher rates, of course. > >Tim. -tony From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Aug 3 13:51:53 1997 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Warehouse Sale... References: <199708030702.AAA09506@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <33E4D349.5954@goldrush.com> Well went out there and picked through stuff again... Lets see today's tab was $30 for: 2 monitors (1702 & CM-141, both Commodore color composite/split composite) early VIC-20 (with the older 9v only adapter) Jupiter Lander Cart for VIC-20 Commodore 4022 Tractor Printer (IEEE-488) Commodore 4040 dual disk drive Commodore PC-40 III enclosure (still has motherboard (drives have been removed) Box o' cables & stuff including IEEE-488 cables, video cables, serial cables, a couple epoxy brick supplies, a pair of atari paddles and a pair of atari driving controllers. There is still have at least a dozen PETs there but I havent the space for more (hopefully I'll make more room before the sale is over...) Also a bunch of 1702s and CM141s, and lots of 64s, VIC-20s and 1541s... Other computers of note... No apple ][s Enrico, and I saw someone pick up the two ][c's for $5 each. There were a couple Compupro 8/somethings.. They looked heavy (given one was opened and I saw one of the biggest transformers I have ever seen), had a about 8 or ten of cards in it... the Osbornes are still there... ALOT of stuff, more then I could report. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- On a side note, recently I have been fortunate in finding alot of low density disks (5.25 and 3.5") at thrift stores for less then I can get them bulk (from $1 to $2 a package of 10 or more), many of which haven't even been used. Those of us with computers requiring such disks sould make sure to check for them during your thrift shopping. :) Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Sun Aug 3 13:23:28 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Warehouse Sale... In-Reply-To: <33E4D349.5954@goldrush.com> Message-ID: Larry or anyone else: Would you be willing to sell me your Jupiter Lander cart for the Vic-20... or any other carts you might have? Am looking for Apple ][e, Vic-20, Atari 400/800xl software. Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > Well went out there and picked through stuff again... Lets see > today's tab was $30 for: > > 2 monitors (1702 & CM-141, both Commodore color composite/split > composite) > early VIC-20 (with the older 9v only adapter) > Jupiter Lander Cart for VIC-20 > Commodore 4022 Tractor Printer (IEEE-488) > Commodore 4040 dual disk drive > Commodore PC-40 III enclosure (still has motherboard (drives have been > removed) > > Box o' cables & stuff including IEEE-488 cables, video cables, serial > cables, a couple epoxy brick supplies, a pair of atari paddles and a > pair of atari driving controllers. > > There is still have at least a dozen PETs there but I havent the space > for more (hopefully I'll make more room before the sale is over...) > Also a bunch of 1702s and CM141s, and lots of 64s, VIC-20s and 1541s... > > Other computers of note... No apple ][s Enrico, and I saw someone > pick up the two ][c's for $5 each. There were a couple Compupro > 8/somethings.. They looked heavy (given one was opened and I saw one of > the biggest transformers I have ever seen), had a about 8 or ten of > cards in it... the Osbornes are still there... ALOT of stuff, more > then I could report. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > On a side note, recently I have been fortunate in finding alot of low > density disks (5.25 and 3.5") at thrift stores for less then I can get > them bulk (from $1 to $2 a package of 10 or more), many of which haven't > even been used. Those of us with computers requiring such disks sould > make sure to check for them during your thrift shopping. :) > > Larry Anderson > -- > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ > Call our BBS (Silicon Realms BBS 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > From dastar at crl.com Sun Aug 3 15:45:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:43 2005 Subject: Televideo TS1603 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Aug 1997, Stacy C. Morang wrote: > On Thu, 24 Jul 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > > Its a Televideo 1603. What's interesting about this system for one thing > > is that it was made by Televideo, whom I thought only made terminals. It > > I may have some software for it... but it's not handy right now (stored > away) - drop me a note if you need it (I'd bet that it is an old ms-dos > or cp/m set, but it might have some unique televideo bits to it. This weekend I found a set of TeleVideo NetWare disks of all things. Actually, I found several sets so I took them all. I wonder what the 1603 uses as the network port, or if these disks will work on my model at all. From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sun Aug 3 08:39:40 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970803091339.00f79e50@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: On 03-Aug-97, Bruce Lane wrote: >Weight: About 40-50 lbs. Not bad at all, really. Some PC full-towers tip >the scales around there. That's what I'm hoping for..if so, it's likely I could handle retrieving it without a problem. >Sizewise, they're about as tall as a full-tower, but deeper and skinnier. >You can probably lift one in your arms without a huge problem. Sounds a lot like a NCR tower that sat in my office for a while, and was a special purpose machine used for tracking of specific commodity items. >With the hardware that's in it, you could easily run OpenVMS, MicroVMS, >regular VMS (I think -- someone check me on that, please?), Ultrix, or NetBSD. Yes, according to the info I've found on the Web, OpenVMS seems the way to go with it...so far, I've found very few 'nice' references to MicroVMS! In fact, it looks like one can get a hobbyist license for OpenVMS for free if one is a member of Decus. >I know the guy I wrote to said there were no docs or diags with it, but... >if by some miracle he was wrong, I'd like to get a copy of any diagnostics >that you might get with it. I spoke to him on the phone for a few minutes on friday, and he wasn't able to tell me much about it...from his quick discription, the system sounded like the larger unit. I hope not, as I wouldn't be able to do anything about picking up the larger unit. He did say that the only thing I'd be getting would be the system unit itself..no docs, terminals, software, or anything. He was supposed to leave me an email with further info and directions on how to get to his office, but I've yet to hear from him. I'm going to call him tomorrow morning again. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 4 08:07:29 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAXen rescue In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Aug 3, 97 06:39:40 pm Message-ID: <9708041207.AA14205@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3067 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970804/e81f1ff8/attachment-0001.ksh From s-ware at nwu.edu Mon Aug 4 08:14:29 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) In-Reply-To: <9708031644.AA13487@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > There are three sorts of commonly-found DEC keys: Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. > > Also, I'm looking for information on connecting a console to the 11/10. > > I'm not sure what the answer to this is. I thought the standard > console interface on a 11/10 was a DL11-W. Have you tried asking > on "vmsnet.pdp-11" on Usenet? Not yet. I've been lurking there for a while trying to gauge the reaction to PDP-11 newbie questions such as mine. Speaking of newbie questions, does anyone know of a good reference for IAS? -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From s-ware at nwu.edu Mon Aug 4 08:18:20 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/10 console (was: DEC keys and consoles) In-Reply-To: <009B83BF.85EE23F5.23@siva.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, PDP11 Hacker ..... wrote: (regarding the BERG connector on the M9970 module in a PDP-11/10) > It's the standard DEC serial connector. Current loop is certainly there, and I > think at least one of the TTL and/or EIA connections are there as well. This > may depend on which CPU board set you have, however. I seem to recall > pinouts/cable lists are on one of the PDP_8_ web sites. Great! I've already found the pinouts, and I'll check voltages as soon as I power the machine up. > 11/10's use an RC clock for the baud rate generator. It's tweakable by a > preset on one of the boards - check it at pin 40 of the UART (the only > 40 pin chip in the CPU), and set to 16 times the baud rate. I think the > 11/10S uses an Xtal clock, and there's a switch to set standard rates. > The RC clock does 110 baud as standard, but can be tweaked at least to > 300 baud. You can change (reduce) the timing capacitor to get higher > rates, of course. > -tony There is what appears to be an RC clock composed of a 4.7 nF capacitor and a multi-turn trimmer potentiometer in the upper left corner of the M7260 data path board in my 11/10. It looks like this clock feeds a 74197 counter, which has a 5-position rotary switch connected (presumably for selecting what the incoming clock is divided by). I'll put a scope on pin 40 of the UART after I power the machine up to see what effect the rotary switch has on the UART clock. It seems likely that the rotary switch is used for making large changes in the baud rate and the trimmer is used for tweaking. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 4 14:17:01 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Honeywell Microsystem 6 Message-ID: <9707048707.AA870729811@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Hi! > > I recently picked up one of these beasts at a second-hand store, and > managed to assemble her and get her running. However, I have been unable > to find out anything about them other than they run the 8086 processor. Can > anyone tell me something more? Like what the OS is, when they were made, > and what tehir arcitecture was? Honeywell, unsuprisingly, couldn't help, > and I found nothing on the web. Um. I don't recognise the name, but there were some early Honeywell PC type things called "Microsystem Executive". This was a design bought by Honeywell after the British company responsible, Future Technology Systems, went bust. The FTS series 86 was sold as the "Non-compatible compatible". OS was a version of CPM-86 with MS-DOS compatibility, multitasking, and one or two other fun features, called Concurrent DOS, and sold by a software house whose name I can't remember (Pegasus? Something beginning with P, I think). Despite its PC-incompatibility - architecture quite different at the hardware level - Lotus 123 version 1 ran without modification, and even drew graphs on the monchrome monitor... I have an FTS 86 somewhere. It was far too expensive, even tho' my father got a huge discount for not suing FTS for breach of contract when they failed to maintain our Series 88 machines. After FTS folded, Honeywell-Bull maintained it for a while; they gave that up at about the time Honeywell sold the rest of their computer arm to Bull group. More than that I can't remember, offhand. If you want more info, I'll see what I can find, but it won't be much... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 4 14:21:30 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <9707048707.AA870729994@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical > key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside > the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to > extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key turn with a screwdriver? When I tried to get my 11/10 console key duplicated, the locksmith didn't even know of a source of blanks. This is the same locksmith who copied keys on restricted blanks (which he had in stock) that operated bits of power station equipment from the 1950s. I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... Philip. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Mon Aug 4 08:42:47 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: DEC keys and consoles Message-ID: <199708041342.AA07524@maddog.swec.com> On Sun, 3 Aug 1997 09:44:26 -0800 (PDT), Mr. Shoppa mentions: > 1. The metal cylinder-lock keys. These are found on -8's, most > older (pre 11/24, 11/44, 11/84, 11/94) Unibux -11's, and some other > boxes. These are standard ACE cylinder keys, with pattern # XX2247. Other boxes: VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, PDP-12, LINC-8 for starters. I'm positive there are others. Like the pdp11/40 KL-10 front-end... > you may need to be friendly with the locksmith - almost all ACE keys > are stamped "DO NOT DUPLICATE" If you produce the lock that the key is for, I believe the smith's objection may be moot. I've got several copies floating around that fit every DEC machine in my collection. They're not hard to come by. I believe the "DO NOT DUPLICATE" is valid only if you can't prove you own the matching lock. > The non-cylinder keys, found on only a few CPU boxes (like the 11/10). > I don't know where to find these... Again, take the lock mechanism to a good locksmith; he'll be able to make a new key for it by examining the tumblers. Of course, as in your case the key is broken off in the cylinder, the smith's job will be _much_ easier. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 4 15:01:50 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/10 console (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <009B846F.CD23727F.35@siva.bris.ac.uk> >There is what appears to be an RC clock composed of a 4.7 nF capacitor and >a multi-turn trimmer potentiometer in the upper left corner of the M7260 >data path board in my 11/10. It looks like this clock feeds a 74197 >counter, which has a 5-position rotary switch connected (presumably for >selecting what the incoming clock is divided by). I'll put a scope on pin >40 of the UART after I power the machine up to see what effect the rotary >switch has on the UART clock. It seems likely that the rotary switch is >used for making large changes in the baud rate and the trimmer is used for >tweaking. If that's the board I think it is, it's an 11/10S. The preset was adjusted at the factory, and you could set most standard baud rates using the switch. It can't hurt to measure the frequency, of course. I can check the printset next weekend for you if you can't figure it out. > >-- >Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu -tony From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 4 15:05:44 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <009B8470.58A6678A.79@siva.bris.ac.uk> >> Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the cylindrical >> key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off inside >> the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be to >> extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made from that. > >Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key >turn with a screwdriver? You can also dismantle the lock from the front panel (remove the frontpanel from the rest of the machine, unscrew the microswtich assy, and frob the retaining clip) and pull out the wafers with pliers. Reassemble it without the wafers, and you can operate it with a screwdriver. That's what I had to do to my 11/10 and GT40, alas. Alternatively, if you can find a blank that fits, it would be possible to cut the notches in the appropriate places until the wafers line up with the cylinder edge, and make a key that way. > >I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... Err, a strip of metal and a milling machine? :-) > >Philip. -tony From dhq at juno.com Mon Aug 4 09:12:26 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) References: <9707048707.AA870729994@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <19970804.101121.4655.2.dhq@juno.com> Hello Philip, I have some keys and access to key blanks used in older electronic equipment. If you send me a tracing or photocopy of your key I might be able to match it. Regards, David Quackenbush PO Box 22394 Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33335 On Mon, 04 Aug 97 14:21:30 BST Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk writes: >> Thanks for the information. I'll try to get a copy of the >cylindrical >> key made using the key code. The end of the key is broken off >inside >> the keylock on the 11/10, so my best course of action here might be >to >> extract the part that is inside the lock and have a duplicate made >from that. > >Might work. Alternatively, does the lock with the broken bit of key >turn with a screwdriver? > >When I tried to get my 11/10 console key duplicated, the locksmith >didn't even know of a source of blanks. This is the same locksmith >who >copied keys on restricted blanks (which he had in stock) that operated > >bits of power station equipment from the 1950s. > >I have yet to find anyone who will duplicate my 11/10 key... > >Philip. > > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 4 15:52:18 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: DEC keys (was: DEC keys and consoles) Message-ID: <9707048707.AA870735394@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Hello Philip, > I have some keys and access to key blanks used in older electronic > equipment. > If you send me a tracing or photocopy of your key I might be able to > match it. Thank you, David. At the moment, I have one system and one key, so a spare is not totally essential. When I am reduced to sending all the way to the US for a replacement, I'll let you know... Philip. From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 4 11:11:30 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! First to the net to see if plans had changed. Nope - looking good! I make my first pot of coffee (don't you love those Bunn's?) and start by cleaning out the van. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 08:45 Well, that was something I hadn't seen in almost two years - the floor of my van I mean. Well, what's left of it. A little history. The van cost me $1 about four years ago. When I bought it from my buddy's brother, he turned around and paid my buddy the dollar he owed him for the van from two years before that 8-) The main problem is that this thing just keeps running. Anyway, after examining the two foot square hole in the floor, I decided a piece of plywood would do nicely. Into the house to make a pot of coffee for the road. And my buddy calls. We have this understanding when either of us is about to do something stupid, we just know about it. No we don't try to talk each other out of it, we just like to know what is going on 8-) Saturday August 2, 1997 - 09:09 Finally ready to hit the road. Gas up the van, check the front right tire. Already thru the fourth ply of a four ply - eight ply rating! Ah well that's why you have a spare. I believe E-250's where made to run with a load! Man is this thing noisy and jumpy with with NO load! Saturday August 2, 1997 - 10:00 Well, that klacking sound is back! Time to throw in another guart of oil! Nope - better make it two! Quick check - nope the radiator ain't leaking any more. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 11:00 We both have to go REAL bad! Oh look - a rest stop. Both the van and I relieve ourselves. The van didn't leak all THAT bad! Back to the road. Saturday August 2, 1997 - 11:30 Heading south into Galesburg, IL on I-74. Why don't they TELL people they are ripping up the road? Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 12:00 somthing. Well, it looks like I am the last here. The directions were impecable! The roads where impassable 8-) Partial list (to be modified) 2 - 11/44 1 - VT-52 3 - RA81 1 - TE16 1 - RSTS Manual set 1 - VAX Ver. 4.0 Manual set 1 - Set of Field Service docs - Mixed 1 - Set of upgrade tapes - DEC Tape II and - what do you call those reels? 1 - 1/4 ton of spares, failures, cables, and Etc. We did however lose the 11/750 8-( Apparently a professor had wanted a 19" rack and his students chose the 11/750 as the doner! The guts were exposed to a fate that I abhore - The Trashman! I think a good time was had by all. At least while we were at Galesburg. We had no time to do lunch 8-( And we tried to split the equipment up as I was planning to run over to Peoria and drop off anything those guys couldn't fit. I still don't believe thay ACTUALLY fit 2 11/44s and a RA81 into a minivan! Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 16:00 As the Campus Police drive by we all say our farewells. Everybody is running late so we can't continue our discussions of computers, education, and life in general 8-( I fill up the van with water - don't even look at the tire (too afraid) and I set off to drive the impassable I-74 once again. Saturday August 2, 1997 - about 18:00 Well, I got a table from my buddy - but not the hardware (that way I have an excuse to run over to his place 8-) so I pull off I-55 to run over. Sure enough - Il 59 is all ripped up! As I stop for the traffic light - PANG! I thought I lost the rear spring - but no. After 360 miles that poor little tire had let go at the light. God takes care of Fools and Idiots - I am so glad I belong to both sets! So I pull off and put on my spare - in record time I might add! You guys ever hear of Dry Rot? That tire got me home but only after throwing off about a third of its tread! So after picking up the hardware for the table, watching "Kingpins" at my buddies, and cruising at about 30 for the last 16 miles - I got home - tired, worn out, but safe. Now this weekend I have to go to.... BC From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Mon Aug 4 02:00:21 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 04-Aug-97, Brett wrote: >Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 >The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois >arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! Interesting story...I also made my first rescue today! As some of you already know, I was set to pick up a MicroVax II...well, I did! This thing is a beast though...barely got it into the house by myself. Here are the specs on it though I haven't popped open the case yet: Model: DH-630Q2-F2 Case: 'radiator' style tower hard disks: (2) Maxtor XT-8380E (380 MB each) memory: ???? Where the guy got the idea that they were 35 MB each is beyond me, so I'm assuming that there is a strong possibility that he was wrong about it having 5meg of RAM as well. The drives are still securely attached to thier mounting brackets, though only the lower one is actually hooked up. There is a DB-9 connector with two knobs (one for choosing baud rate up to 38400) and a switch on the bracket labled 'A' on the rear of the machine, (4) DB-25M connectors on 'B' bracket, while brackets 'C' and 'D' each have a single DB-25F connector with P/N H3176-00. Bracket 'E' has just a blockoff plate, while 'F' has a 3row, 50 pin connector on it. Above the drives, which are mounted vertically one above the other, there is a small panel with switches for power, halt, reset, fixed disk 0 write protect, and ready, as well as status lights for 'run' and 'DC ok'. Now, the guy said he had never seen this machine actually in use, so it's been sitting for a while. When it was used though, he said it took input from some sensors on scales and processed that in different ways. That's the full extent of what I can tell you about this machine at this point, until I've gotten into the case. Any comments, info, suggestions, ect. will be more than welcome! Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu Mon Aug 4 14:20:04 1997 From: mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu (Matthew P. Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free TVs,etc Message-ID: <199708041920.OAA00517@beret.cs.utexas.edu> Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user From: epotter@mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) Newsgroups: austin.forsale Subject: Free TVs,etc Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 3 Distribution: austin Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 4 15:23:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Aug 4, 97 12:00:21 pm Message-ID: <9708041923.AA15038@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1763 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970804/185a665f/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 4 14:57:11 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story from Peoria In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue The other side of the story. (We were the peoria guys!) Saturday, August 2, 1997 - 8:00 We overslept because Jeff can't set an alarm. But only by 20 minutes. We made it to work, stole my boss's van, and off we went! Jeff brought his soon-to-be-girlfriend, and they left in my car. (A little Chevy Sprint) I took my boss's van. We left at about 10:45, after killing some time at work. This van is great. Everything works fine, except the driver's side door refuses to latch. We tied it closed with a bungee cord. Saturday, etc etc etc - 11:45 I show up at the the pickup place. We lost jeff somewhere, he arrives 20 minutes later. We take 20 minutes to find our contact. Then we actually see how BIG this thing is! The Things We Got: 2 PDP-11/44s. One in operational condition, the other is a spare CPU without a power supply. 1 Letterwriter 100 Printing Terminal... Loads of RSTS-E docs, backup tapes, diag tapes for the PDP on the drive Brett got. A set of 11/750 diags on DECTape IIs. More serial cable than I can carry. Loads of miscellaneous Unibus cards. Various assorted PDP and VAX docs. Including a copy of the DEC Peripherals Handbook and various other things... We had REAL fun fitting all this into the minivan and the car. Poor car was about 5 degrees nose-high on the way home! Given a set of wings, we could have taken off! Saturday, about 5:00 We get to our workplace, hoping to get this thing fired up Sunday. We later learn how foolish this is! Almost remove my fingers trying to get the double-cabnet 44 out of the van! Sunday, All day. Various unloading. Jeff succeeds in dropping the double-cabinet 11 on his foot, sideways. He smashed it up pretty well. The 11 survived. Found out the smaller 11 has no PS, and I dropped the power key inside of it. Then found out I don't have a hex key! Ended up unlatching it with a screwdriver. This was fun. Got the 11 powered up, but haven't gotten it booted yet. Terminal problem. Monday - 9:00 Boss shows up. Complains soon as he sees it. Looks like the big 11 gets to live in a storage shed for awhile! And after he gave us permission to put a computer here! Oh well. Looks like booting it will take a little longer than I thought... We had fun anyway. (Even Jeff) From rcini at msn.com Mon Aug 4 17:39:29 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! Message-ID: For all of those Commodore followers... Something interesting happened today. One of my co-workers asked me to work with her on something relating to a company called Ensoniq, a manufacturer of sound cards and hign-end MIDI equipment. She was reading to me over the phone about the founders and how they came from Commodore International. Hmmmm. She then read the names: Al Charpentier and Robert Yannes. I didn't immediately recognize Al's name, but I knew Yannes. He created the prototypes for the VIC-20 and C64. Reading on, she confirmed my guess. Al ran the LSI section of the Advanced Systems Design Group within Commodore. From the info that we have, it seems that Al did mostly chip design, including the VIC-I and VIC-II, and Bob did mostly systems design. Well, in about a week or two, I'll be meeting these guys. Does anyone have any special questions that are not too off-the-wall and that I can slip into conversation? ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 4 19:10:40 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > For all of those Commodore followers... > > Something interesting happened today. One of my co-workers asked me to work > with her on something relating to a company called Ensoniq, a manufacturer of > sound cards and hign-end MIDI equipment. She was reading to me over the phone > about the founders and how they came from Commodore International. Hmmmm. > > She then read the names: Al Charpentier and Robert Yannes. I didn't > immediately recognize Al's name, but I knew Yannes. He created the prototypes > for the VIC-20 and C64. Reading on, she confirmed my guess. Al ran the LSI > section of the Advanced Systems Design Group within Commodore. From the info > that we have, it seems that Al did mostly chip design, including the > VIC-I and VIC-II, and Bob did mostly systems design. > > Well, in about a week or two, I'll be meeting these guys. Does anyone have > any special questions that are not too off-the-wall and that I can slip into > conversation? Ya Rich. Ask them if they would be interested in a first once again? Hey Bill, with our own server up - do you feel like trying a realtime chat group? Or is this asking too much - I know you are busy. Maybe someone else could set up a host system for this. This would be *Real Neat*. I guess if I suggest it - I better read up on it 8-) Anyone else think this would be a neat idea??? BC From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 4 19:25:50 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <970804202102_-1607050231@emout13.mail.aol.com> I also have a uVAX II, and i partially dissembled mine and hosed down the outer plastic shell since there was lots of nasty dust in there. i finally figured out how to open the access door in the back, and saw some cards in there, but exactly how do they come out? i didnt want to just start pulling in case they are locked in somehow. david From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Aug 4 19:32:02 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! Message-ID: >Ya Rich. Ask them if they would be interested in a first once again? >Hey Bill, with our own server up - do you feel like trying a realtime >chat group? Or is this asking too much - I know you are busy. Maybe >someone else could set up a host system for this. This would be *Real >Neat*. I guess if I suggest it - I better read up on it 8-) Anyone >else think this would be a neat idea??? I wrote Perl code for a web chat once, which ran quite well - but as it uses forms rather than Java it is not entirly real time. Anyway, if you want that we can probably work something out. Ada, From adam at merlin.net.au Mon Aug 4 19:41:11 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Surwave Amigo Message-ID: Hi! Anyone know anything about the Surwave Amigo? I have a non-working version, and am inclined to fix it, but I don't know what the system is. It has a Z80a cpu,and I was told by someone (who could well be wrong) that it runs Apple II software, but that is as much as I have found out so far. Thanks heaps, Adam. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 4 20:16:55 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <199708050116.AA05501@world.std.com> Dave If you still these items I can drive down from Houston and ick up or if you only have the manuals I'll apy for shipping the manuals MN. Thanks John Keys At 02:20 PM 8/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? > >Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user >From: epotter@mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) >Newsgroups: austin.forsale >Subject: Free TVs,etc >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 >Organization: The University of Texas at Austin >Lines: 3 >Distribution: austin >Message-ID: >NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu >Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 > >Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large >and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several >Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 4 21:55:12 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: Free TVs,etc Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970805025512.006a9458@pop3.concentric.net> If you still have the lisa manuals and stuff I will pay the shipping and cod cost to get them. Let me and thanks John Keys At 02:20 PM 8/4/97 -0500, you wrote: >Perhaps someone would be interested in the Lisa gear? > >Path: cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu!user >From: epotter@mail.utexas.edu (EPotter) >Newsgroups: austin.forsale >Subject: Free TVs,etc >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:31:47 +0100 >Organization: The University of Texas at Austin >Lines: 3 >Distribution: austin >Message-ID: >NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-90-7.ots.utexas.edu >Xref: cs.utexas.edu austin.forsale:104815 > >Two 25" heathkit TVs, working, with one extra chassis for parts. Large >and heavy, wood cabinets, not fibreboard, need grill cloth. Also several >Lisa keyboards, Lisa manuals, misc. all free, you haul it off. > > From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 4 23:05:44 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: I'm to meet Yannes & Charpentier! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Adam Jenkins wrote: > >Ya Rich. Ask them if they would be interested in a first once again? > >Hey Bill, with our own server up - do you feel like trying a realtime > >chat group? Or is this asking too much - I know you are busy. Maybe > >someone else could set up a host system for this. This would be *Real > >Neat*. I guess if I suggest it - I better read up on it 8-) Anyone > >else think this would be a neat idea??? > > I wrote Perl code for a web chat once, which ran quite well - but as it > uses forms rather than Java it is not entirly real time. Anyway, if you > want that we can probably work something out. Well - this is to announce a Beta Run of the Classic Computer Chatroom! Thanks for the offer Adam! We will try this first 8-) Tuesday August 5, 1997 20:00 CST - Come one Come all - Well not all at once 8-) You all can reach it from the Classic Computer Encyclopedia Web Page. Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ We will give it a try. Bill, if you are out there 8-) It was a breeze to install and if you want it - follow the links yourself 8-) > Ada, ^ That late huh? 8-) Check it out Adam - it is pretty goo - and Free! BC - tired but happy once again. From kyrrin at wizards.net Mon Aug 4 23:52:13 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Heads up! Check the attached in detail... Message-ID: <33ecb07f.775583119@mail.wizards.net> The attached showed up in sci.electronics.equipment. The main reason I'm forwarding it to the list is because the fellow advertises a complete C-64 with what appears to be an actual Commodore EPROM programmer. He's also got an Atari system and some other interesting goodies. Caveat emptor! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- Path: news.eli.net!inquo!news.uoregon.edu!news.campus.rpslmc.edu!iagnet.net!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: corkymoo@aol.com (CorkyMoo) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.equipment Subject: fOr sAlE or there abouts. Date: 4 Aug 1997 15:57:10 GMT Lines: 137 Message-ID: <19970804155700.LAA11692@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <33D3D23E.2862@GSI.DE> Xref: news.eli.net sci.electronics.equipment:12201 Some weights haven't been included. You pay shipping. Write if interested in the stuff. Its a pain trying to weigh all this stuff. Need something electronic? ASK. * $20 min..* GC=Good Cond., PC=Poor Cond.-Parts Cond., MO=Make Offer, EC=Excellent Cond. * Please pass this list to some one else. Need some one to talk to call (716)JIXL-HAT -------------------------------------------------------------------- TUBES electron, 955 acorn,9002,7G,6Z4,89,5Y3,6SJ7,6J5,9006,6AV5,AU6A OA3,OA2 and more. Total=31, $1 -------------------------------------------------------------------- FUNCTION GEN. - Lab Volt AA777, manual, EC, paid $120, $59 .1 to 1 MHz, 4 wave forms plus pulse. -------------------------------------------------------------------- STEPPER MOTORS - 6 stepper motors, 6 wire, $6, GC, 4.5 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- WIRE - 5 wire intercom cable 120 ft. $10, new, 4 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- CARD READER - Magnetic card readers. $2/ea. $39/25 or $59/50 -------------------------------------------------------------------- TESTERS TRANSISTOR 2 - Elenco(new) & Knight, $20 w/manual I paid about $25 for one and had to assemble it, used it ounce or twice, ouch! Edlie Electronics still sells it. -------------------------------------------------------------------- TIMERS - Digital (coffee), control 15a 120v $4/ea., new -------------------------------------------------------------------- ALARMS - Master Lock, 12v auto or home $8/ea. new -------------------------------------------------------------------- TESTING - equipment 2, old Knight magic eye stuff, capacitance and signal tracer, G.C., $20, worth it for the eye tubes. -------------------------------------------------------------------- POWER SUPPLIES - 9 V DC, 150 ma., $2 ea., 5 for $8, 10 for $15, new small modular style with 2x12 mm plug, 6 oz./ea. -------------------------------------------------------------------- DB25 CONNECTORS 40 - rt. angle board mount, 20 female, 20 male, current price $1.60-$1.80 ea., new, $30, 3 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- PHONE CORDS 21 - modular and other, EC, $5, 4 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- RESISTORS 35 - power, 900 ohm, tubular porcelains, 30 to 50 watts? GC, $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- KEYBOARD - WYSE, 101 with modular plug, new, boxed, $10, 4.5 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- KEYBOARD - NCR, 95 key, well built, EC, $5, 6 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- CABLE - ribbon, colorful, arts & crafts to hardware, $6, 2 lb. -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTROLS - limit, for color TV's, 2 boxes (20), new, assortment of values, $8, -------------------------------------------------------------------- KEY SWITCHES - tubular, ACE, best quality, new, make a secure keyboard instead of what's on most PC's, $5 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONNECTORS CENTRONICS - 10 Cinch, M-M, good quality, new $15 -------------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSFORMER, unloaded 142 ma., with the following: 19 v. - .5 a. 24 v. - 2.5 a. 28 v. - 13 a. 11 v. - 20 a. The out puts can be mixed matched for different voltages & amps. MO -------------------------------------------------------------------- G65SC151PEI-1, GTEu, P350151 a PLCC have 65 of these. MO -------------------------------------------------------------------- GLOVES, finger less, leather, new, cycling or golfing $2 for both. -------------------------------------------------------------------- RECEPTACLE single, rated 15A 125V, boxed, 4 of these, new $2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERATOR NOISE, General Radio, white/pink/USASI, EC $39 -------------------------------------------------------------------- VCR MULTIPLIER, boxed, 900 MHz, watch in any room, EC $20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CLEANING CARE KIT, for Bernoulli removable drives, new $2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- WALL PLATE, TV-FM and rotor, lists $3/ea., new $2 all 3 -------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMODORE/EPROM, system, consists of all of the following; late model commodore 64 (new style case), EPROM programmer will program 2716 to 27256, 2 disk drives , all boxes, cables, power supplies, manuals. Will toss in all the above manuals#. All EC $120 -------------------------------------------------------------------- C-PROGRAMMING BOOKS, Turbo C++, 4 books. All the following one book; Microsoft Quick C, Advanced C, C Primer Plus, total of 7 books, GC all, $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Differential DC Voltmeter, JF, Model 801 MegOhmmeter, Industrial Instruments Co., Model L-6B Low Freq. Generator, HP, Model 202A Volt-Amp-Milliammeter, Sensitive Research Instrument Corp. Television/FM Sweep Generator, RCA, WR-69A wt. 17 lbs. Megohm Bridge, General Radio Co., Type 544-B Constant Voltage Conditioner, Digital, H7225-AC MO on all the above. No offer refused. Sold as is for parts. -------------------------------------------------------------------- SCIENCE BOOK MY FIRST, 10.25"X13.25", very large well illustrated, excellent content, Mr.Wizard would have love this. Slight water damage, pages are crinkled a bit. No damage to print or colors and no page tear. $4 -------------------------------------------------------------------- COMPUTER GRAPHICS, Vol.23 #3,4,5. 3 books, pgs. 408,352,332. A publication of ACM Siggraph. $8 -------------------------------------------------------------------- BATTERY PACK, Ni-Cd, 4 AA in shrink wrap, 4.8v, for turbo racing cars or where ever 4.8v or 1/4 less are needed, these can be easily split apart, Radio Shack No. 23-245 GC $3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ZIF SOCKET, fit 24 to 32 pin DIP's, made by 3M, good quality, new $4 --------------------------------------------------------------------- MOTHERBOARD, 486 & 386 and 2 - 14.4K modems sold for parts, $5 --------------------------------------------------------------------- ATARI 5200, great older game machine, boxed, with Space Invaders, Dig Dug, Joust, Pac-Man, Mario Bros., Centipede. EC except for joysticks, will have to solder on switch for fire button. wt. 16 lbs. $20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- PHONE JACK/WIRING BLOCK, new, just purchased from Sun, $1 -------------------------------------------------------------------- TRANSMITTER's, 5 watts, are set for between two CB chs. 3&4 these are removed from new equipment, board measures about 1 6/16" X 5", $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CAP variable air, 50-1470 pF, about 8.5"x4.5"x4.5", biggest I've seen, stainless steel and AL, $6 -------------------------------------------------------------------- THE END... -------------------------------------------------------------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Aug 5 06:22:57 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Surwave Amigo Message-ID: > Anyone know anything about the Surwave Amigo? I have a non-working > version, and am inclined to fix it, but I don't know what the system is. It > has a Z80a cpu,and I was told by someone (who could well be wrong) that it > runs Apple II software, but that is as much as I have found out so far. Some newly discovered additional information. :) After taking the boards out (one of which I assume is for the dual floppies, one for the hard drive? one unknown and one graphics card), I found a 6502. So it seems it is a dual processor Z80a/6502 machine. This, at least, explains the Apple ][ compatibility, but leaves me a tad more confused about its origins. Adam. From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 5 08:46:47 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 135 In-Reply-To: <199708050702.AAA01260@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805064647.00f87e30@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 05-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 12:00:21 +0500 >From: Jeff Hellige >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Cc: adam@merlin.net.au >Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain > >On 04-Aug-97, Brett wrote: > >>Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 >>The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois >>arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! > > Interesting story...I also made my first rescue today! As some of you >already know, I was set to pick up a MicroVax II...well, I did! This thing is >a beast though...barely got it into the house by myself. Here are the specs >on it though I haven't popped open the case yet: Jeff, once you get that case open, please let me know which cards are in it. The one attached to that 50-pin connector MIGHT be a SCSI-to-QBus adapter. > Now, the guy said he had never seen this machine actually in use, so it's >been sitting for a while. When it was used though, he said it took input from >some sensors on scales and processed that in different ways. > > That's the full extent of what I can tell you about this machine at this >point, until I've gotten into the case. Any comments, info, suggestions, ect. >will be more than welcome! I have several items that may be of help, including a distribution tape for MicroVMS 4.5 (or 4.6? I can never remember). For what they're worth, I've also got a customer-level diagnostic tape. Both are on TK50 cartridges. If either would be of help, I can make you a copy and send it along. I also have some hardware docs on the MicroVAXen. FYI, sounds like you got the BA123 enclosure. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 5 08:50:45 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 135 In-Reply-To: <199708050702.AAA01260@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805065045.00f87e30@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 05-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:11:30 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brett >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >The Great Galesburg, Illinois Rescue > >Saturday August 2, 1997 - 07:00 >The alarm went off and I lept up from bed. Today was The Day. The Illinois >arm of the Classic Computer Rescue Squad was to make it's first Rescue! >First to the net to see if plans had changed. Nope - looking good! I make my >first pot of coffee (don't you love those Bunn's?) and start by cleaning out >the van. >2 - 11/44 >1 - VT-52 >3 - RA81 >1 - TE16 >1 - RSTS Manual set Whoa... did you happen to get any RSTS/E distribution media with that? I don't much care if its TK50, 9-track, or whatever... if you did, I'd be interested in at least a copy. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 5 08:55:10 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Need SW for Mac286 board Message-ID: <199708051355.JAA10046@hiway1.exit109.com> I just picked up and old AST Mac286 board set. This is a NUBUS-based 286 co-processor for the Mac. Unfortunately, it did not come with software. Can anyone send me a copy of it and any relevant info that I should know about. MIME-encoded disk images are fine. Thanks ever so much in advance... <<>> From dhq at juno.com Tue Aug 5 10:11:39 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Timex-Sinclair for sale Message-ID: <19970805.111005.7663.1.dhq@juno.com> I'll sell everything for $35.00, includes USPS Priorty shipping anywhere in the US. If you live near Ft. Lauderdale you can pick it up for $25.00 PS. I found a paperback book with 51 game programs for the TS 1000 & 1500, it's included. Regards, David Quackenbush From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Mon Aug 4 20:16:12 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <199708042349.AA17828@world.std.com> Message-ID: On 05-Aug-97, Allison J Parent wrote: >odd sounding box. The BA23 is a 6"x19"x29" chassis out of the plastic dress >case. The BA123 is about double the width but the layout is very different. >The backplane is fixed in a main chassin and has a door over it and dress >covers. Sounds like a either a bs23 or BA213 skunk box. Most ba23s only >have one hard drive and either RX50 or TK50/70 tape. This one is in a plastic case mounted on a pedestal..the cases outside dimensions are: 6"W x 28-1/4" L x 24" H. The dimensions of the internal chasis alone are approximately: 5"W x 24" L x 17-1/2" H. It certainly doesn't sound wide enough to be a BA123, which threw me off at first when Tim suggested that's what it was. It doesn't seem to match the dimensions of the BA23 though either, especially since it has two slide-mounted hard disks in it, though it lacks a tape drive or any other type of removable media. >FYI the BA23 (Ihave one) slides into a plastic pedestal case from the back. >or the metal box can have rack mount ears. This one also alows the whole chasis to slide in and out of the pedestal case...and it looks like it'd allow it to do it just as easily from the front as it would the rear. >The 6x6 card? got me. A KA630a is quad width double height (8.5x11). Well my guaging of dimensions by eye leaves much to be desired..which is why I took a seamstress tape to the case for the above dimensions! >If the OS is ultrix yes, VMS no. If the case is BA23 drve ready switches >should be off before turning on and off before turning off. I'd say don't >power it till you have a terminal anyhow as VAXen look for a console >terminal or they don't finish power diags or boot! It also queries the >terminal for what It is, the altos unless a vt100 clone will nto give the >right response (no biggie but there is some console editing that will not >happen then). I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for about $50 on the newsgroups. Jeff -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu Tue Aug 5 11:02:01 1997 From: mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: ; from Jeff Hellige on Tue, Aug 05, 1997 at 06:16:12AM +0500 References: <199708042349.AA17828@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19970805110201.51549@beret.cs.utexas.edu> I remember back in '97 when Jeff Hellige wrote: > On 05-Aug-97, Allison J Parent wrote: > >If the OS is ultrix yes, VMS no. If the case is BA23 drve ready switches > >should be off before turning on and off before turning off. I'd say don't > >power it till you have a terminal anyhow as VAXen look for a console > >terminal or they don't finish power diags or boot! It also queries the > >terminal for what It is, the altos unless a vt100 clone will nto give the > >right response (no biggie but there is some console editing that will not > >happen then). > > I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely > I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for > about $50 on the newsgroups. If it uses the answerback facility to do the query, you can probably get by with any number of solutions. At least a couple of terminals I have are able to set this string to match what a true vt100 would produce. Also, don't discount the power of an old PC, or even a new PC running e.g. Linux to communicate in the desired way. m@ -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */ From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Aug 5 11:33:06 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <01IM2ST1YLQABCHQSA@cc.usu.edu> >>FYI the BA23 (Ihave one) slides into a plastic pedestal case from the back. >>or the metal box can have rack mount ears. > > This one also alows the whole chasis to slide in and out of the pedestal >case...and it looks like it'd allow it to do it just as easily from the front >as it would the rear. Take a look through the vent holes on top. The BA23 has a metal flange about halfway down which prevents it from coming too far out the front. You can get it out far enough to take off the cover plate over the drive bay, but that's about it. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Mon Aug 4 21:33:06 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <01IM2ST1YLQABCHQSA@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On 05-Aug-97, Roger Ivie wrote: >Take a look through the vent holes on top. The BA23 has a metal flange >about halfway down which prevents it from coming too far out the front. You >can get it out far enough to take off the cover plate over the drive bay, >but that's about it. On this one, there is a metal plate that runs the whole length of the case, front to back, and I can see the dual fans through the vent holes. If I pull the small blocking plate off the front of the machine to allow the chasis to slide out some though, I can see the metal tab sticking up from the top of the chasis which would likely block the chasis from sliding out more than 1/2 way through the front. Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From manney at nwohio.com Mon Aug 4 09:38:22 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Who wanted my book? Message-ID: <199708051714.KAA07137@mx2.u.washington.edu> I offered a book, "Assembly Language Programming for the 8080/8085"; someone said he wanted it. Who? (I lost the reply). Thanks manney@nwohio.com From jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Aug 5 13:25:01 1997 From: jeff.kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <19970805110201.51549@beret.cs.utexas.edu> References: ; from Jeff Hellige on Tue, Aug 05, 1997 at 06:16:12AM +0500 Message-ID: <77008DD40933@ifrsys.com> > Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:02:01 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Matthew Sayler > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story > I remember back in '97 when Jeff Hellige wrote: > > On 05-Aug-97, Allison J Parent wrote: > > >If the OS is ultrix yes, VMS no. If the case is BA23 drve ready switches > > >should be off before turning on and off before turning off. I'd say don't > > >power it till you have a terminal anyhow as VAXen look for a console > > >terminal or they don't finish power diags or boot! It also queries the > > >terminal for what It is, the altos unless a vt100 clone will nto give the > > >right response (no biggie but there is some console editing that will not > > >happen then). > > > > I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely > > I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for > > about $50 on the newsgroups. > If you're talking about the Altos III terminals (minus their keyboards), I wouldn't give up just yet. IIRC, they used WYSE terminals with (slightly) customized roms. If the keyboard plug is round (kinda like a DIN plug, but with lots more pins) then a WY-50 keyboard should work. If it is a modular phone plug, then it would be a WY-30 keyboard. All bets are off if the terminal has a heavy, metal cabinet-- it's probly a Wy-100, and keyboards for those are rather scarce. jeff From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 5 21:08:03 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: HX20 questions Message-ID: <009B856C.202724C4.19@siva.bris.ac.uk> I've just been given an Epson HX20 laptop - it was not working when I got it, but it didn't take long to kludge over the damaged conductor in the keyboard flexiprint cable... Anyway, it came with some rather nice bits : The microcassette drive and 8 tapes A TF20 floppy drive unit and cable A pile of manuals - user manuals for the HX20 and TF20, BASIC reference manual, and _Technical_ manaul for the HX20. The latter is quite a find, and includes schematics of the machine, the tape unit and the ROM cartridge. I am lacking the systems disk for the TF20 - does anyone have one that they could make a copy of. I can supply a blank disk and pay postage, of course. I suspect that as I have the machine, I am entitled to have such a disk. I assume schematics for the TF20 don't exist anywhere... The TF20 contains a pair of 1/3 height voice-coil drives (like those in the QX10), and a controller board. The latter contains a Z80, 2K EPROM, 64K DRAM, the 765 disk controller chip, and TTL glue. There's a daughterboard with the serial chip on it to communicate with the HX20. This reminds me of another Epson object I have - a BM5 floppy drive. This looks like the TF20 (it's a white box, very deep from front to back, with a vertically mounted drive on the front). However, this drive seems to link to the internal controller using an ST506-like interface (34 pin and 20 pin cables), and the controller chips are hard disk controllers. Somebody told me that it stored 5 Mbytes/disk Does anyone know anything about this object? -tony From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 5 15:54:58 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Booting this 11/44 In-Reply-To: <009B856C.202724C4.19@siva.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: I found the console terminal and I can talk to ODT. I think I have the RA81 hooked up correctly. RA passes all the diags. The machine doesn't boot. If I give it a B command, it runs for a second and halts. There are 4 connectors for the RA, in bottom of the rack. A B C D Which does the RA cable go into? Is there a different command to boot from an RA? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 5 17:10:17 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Booting this 11/44 In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 5, 97 03:54:58 pm Message-ID: <9708052110.AA17785@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1443 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970805/285ed7c2/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 5 16:26:07 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Booting this 11/44 In-Reply-To: <9708052110.AA17785@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > What message does it give you - "Halted" or "?Couldn't start CP" ? It says CONSOLE xxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx (The ODT start message) > > It's trying to boot the "default device", which is selected via some > DIPswitches on the Unibus Adapter. > > It doesn't matter. But you don't plug the RA straight into those > jacks; the RA should plug into a cabinet kit on the back of the > drive's cabinet, then a black SDI cable should > run between the cabinet kit on the drive cabinet and the cabinet > kit on the CPU. Make sure the appropriate port button ("A" or > "B") is in on the drive. The RA has a small box on the back. Out of this comes 4 cables - 2 for the terminator, and 2 SDI cables. Those are plugged into a small box on the bottom of the rack-mount, with 4 SDI cables running out the back to the controller. > > In other words, there must be an *even* number of cab kits involved. > Each cab kit does a parity reversal on the cable. Nothing blows > up if things are reversed, but you won't be able to access the drive. > > (There are white SDI cables, which change the requirement to an odd > number. But I doubt you've got any white SDI cables - these were > generally used with RA70- and RA90-type disks.) > I have an even number. (One drive) > Try B DU0. If this doesn't work, you'll have to feed in a MSCP bootstrap > via console ODT. (Or buy the DU boot ROM from DECdirect, if they've > still got any.) I'll go try that. From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 5 19:28:21 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: New wishlist, and... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970805172821.00f78ec8@mail.wizards.net> Now that I have your attention... I have need for the FIELD SERVICE diagnostics for the MicroVAX II. Not the customer-level ones; I already have them, and yes, they are a joke. Preferred media is TK50 or RX50. Other things I'm chasing are distribution kits for RSTS/E, ver. 9.x or higher, and Ultrix 4.5. For RSTS, I can take any of the following; 9-track tape, TK50, CD-ROM or RL02 (TK50 or CD-ROM preferred). For Ultrix, TK50 or CD-ROM (I can do RX50's in a pinch, but that'd be a LOT of floppies!). Also, I now have the ability to make binary image copies of TK50 tapes. This means that I can accept a tape on loan, long enough to copy it, and then send it back. It also means I can make copies for fellow VAXen-users. :-) Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rcini at msn.com Tue Aug 5 21:13:06 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Possible PDP11 acquisition/what to get Message-ID: I may have the opportunity to pick-up some PDP11 equipment. I'm not too knowledgeable about the PDP11 series and all of the accessories that go with it, nor do I have a complete list of the goodies at this time. What I'd like to do though is to get a "complete" system for my collection (which consists mostly of micro stuff). Some of the equipment includes several 11/34s, 11/23s, 11/23+, 11/40, 11/05, etc., RK05/RL01/RL02/RX01/RX02 drives, plus racks and a whole load of other stuff. Any guidance here would be appreciated. BTW, this stuff is at Temple University (for all of those East-coast rescuers). TIA! ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From pechter at lakewood.com Tue Aug 5 22:37:21 1997 From: pechter at lakewood.com (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Possible PDP11 acquisition/what to get In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Aug 6, 97 02:13:06 am" Message-ID: <199708060337.XAA00464@i4got.lakewood.com> > > I may have the opportunity to pick-up some PDP11 equipment. I'm not too > knowledgeable about the PDP11 series and all of the accessories that go with > it, nor do I have a complete list of the goodies at this time. What I'd like > to do though is to get a "complete" system for my collection (which consists > mostly of micro stuff). > > Some of the equipment includes several 11/34s, 11/23s, 11/23+, 11/40, 11/05, > etc., RK05/RL01/RL02/RX01/RX02 drives, plus racks and a whole load of other > stuff. > > Any guidance here would be appreciated. BTW, this stuff is at Temple > University (for all of those East-coast rescuers). > > TIA! > Sounds good... I'm ex-DEC Field Service and I was pretty knowledgeable 10 years ago on that stuff... If any of it will free-up let me know. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 | 908-389-3592 pechter@lakewood.com | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. This msg brought to you by the letters PDP and the number 11. From danjo at xnet.com Tue Aug 5 22:42:55 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: First Chatroom test Message-ID: Well, the turn out was smaller - but that was a Good Thing. Me 8-) and Frank McConnell started up about 20:02 CST. He's on the West Coast so it would have been about 18:02 for him 8-) were joined later by Hans Pufal in France - about 4:08 AM for him (what a trooper!) We tried out various stuff. It seems the Chatroom still has a few bugs. Bill Kendrick (the guy who wrote it) had mentioned some - but not all that we ran across. Still, it seemed to work well. Frank and Hans were running either IE or Netscape. I tried it - my poor little Linux system with 8 MB always did belly up with that running - so I went back to Lynx. Seems to like to say you just joined randomly (that was noted) and then about 95 minutes into it - the whole log got cleaned out. That MIGHT be a feature 8-) Oh there are a ton of features I haven't played with yet. You can put a picture on the chat line as well (scary in some cases 8-) and all sorts of robotic things to do - set up a Eliza talking to people 8-) and then also throwing gifs in to replace words. We are going to try it again on Thursday. Maybe earlier. Maybe later. BC From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 5 22:46:15 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Heathkit machines (fwd) Message-ID: An opportunity for a rescue in the Chicago area... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 21:26:55 -0500 From: Keith McMillen To: jimw@agora.rdrop.com Subject: Heathkit machines Jim, I have an H-8 with dual floppy drives, and an H-89 (H-8 built into an H-19 terminal) with the built in floppy, plus an additional dual floppy drive setup. There are also a large box of floppies including CPM and the HDOS operating disks. I have no idea how much of this works anymore, but it was functioning when I put it on the shelf. We are moving and I can't take it with. If you can find a home for it, I would be very pleased. The machines are currently in the western suburbs of Chicago, IL. You may contact me at kmac@mmwg.com or call (630) 832-1990. KMAC From danjo at xnet.com Tue Aug 5 22:49:38 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: A Testimonial Dear Friends - CCRS Message-ID: I was pleased to recieve this today after quite a few emails. I can't think a batter way to say why I joined the Classic Computer Rescue List/Squad. >Brett- > > Well, you're off the hook: I won't be trying to lure you out here for > computer rescues this time! (which is probably a good thing, with the > travel schedule you're looking at. . .) > > Anyway, my contact in western Michigan reappeared, and over the weekend > we did a complete hand over of *lots* of stuff. Now there's a family in > Kent City, Michigan, with a really good start on a full set of early > Zenith machines-- and there's one in Ann Arbor that has a lot more space > opened up in the basement (definitely what I call a win-win situation > :-) > > I do thank you, though, for the initial rescue, as well as the later > info and encouragement. Much appreciated! All the best -- Laura We do meet some of the Nicest People in the world. BC From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Aug 6 00:54:48 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Computer Catalogue updated Message-ID: <33E811A8.DF26E486@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> I have updated my opus magnus : the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue (CCC), it now records 3574 computers. Please take a look and send any comments or updates my way. It can be found at Use the FIND button to gain access to the search engine, from there you can look for your favorite machine by name or get a list of machines by manufacturer or date or country. There are over 800 machines with unknown dates, would the list members be upset if I do a weekly posting of, say 10 names in an attempt to get more info? If you do object send me Email and I will stop. Best regards, Hans B Pufal From marvin at rain.org Wed Aug 6 01:44:52 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Comprehensive Computer Catalogue updated References: <33E811A8.DF26E486@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: <33E81D64.7745CD54@rain.org> Hans Pufal wrote: > I have updated my opus magnus : the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue > (CCC), it now records 3574 computers. Please take a look and send any > comments or updates my way. It can be found at > Looks good, I especially like the part where you give the sources for the infomation!!! I've had it bookmarked for quite a while and it is great to hear that you are still updating it. > There are over 800 machines with unknown dates, would the list members > > be upset if I do a weekly posting of, say 10 names in an attempt to > get > more info? If you do object send me Email and I will stop. This sounds like a good idea as well as one that is appropriate for this group! Are you looking for the date that the computers first shipped or perhaps rather advertised that they would ship :)? From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Wed Aug 6 02:21:37 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: Machine dates Message-ID: <33E82601.44E8E8D5@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Marvin wrote: >> There are over 800 machines with unknown dates, would the list members >> be upset if I do a weekly posting of, say 10 names in an attempt to >> get >> more info? If you do object send me Email and I will stop. > This sounds like a good idea as well as one that is appropriate for this > group! Are you looking for the date that the computers first shipped or > perhaps rather advertised that they would ship :)? Thanks for the encouragement! Yes, the date of a machine is a problem, ideally, for mainframes I would like the date of running the first significant program. I have taken to using the date of publication of an announcemnt in for example IEEE Computer. Any reasonable and hopefully verifiable date would be welcomed. I have been browsing the back issues of PCW magazine of which I have a complete set of the first 8 years or so, and it is amusing to see the adverts for the Sinclair MK14, they start out as rough drawings, then more detailed ones and finally after 8 or so months we finally see a photograph. It would be interesting to see a the sequence of these ads juxtaposed, hmmm, yet another project ;-) Regards, Hans From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 6 08:14:27 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:44 2005 Subject: You were in Field Service? In-Reply-To: <199708060337.XAA00464@i4got.lakewood.com> Message-ID: Here's a good one. I have an 11/44, which is supposed to boot RSTS-E from an RA81. Since the SDI cable is inverted at each connector, I am using one cable. I removed the cables attached to the drive, and detached the cables attached to that little box at the bottom of the rack, and attached those to the drive. I have a direct connection between UDA50 and the RA81. I spin up the RA, let it get to READY, and then boot the machine. I tell ODT to B DU0. When the RA has A or B selected, it does absolutely nothing. When both are selected, the drive spins down, and doesn't reset. I have to push RUN/STOP twice to spin it back up. It doesn't give me a FAULT. The RA has passed all the diagnostics, I plugged a terminal. This is very probably my screw-up. What did I do wrong? From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Aug 6 10:51:11 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Consoles, Keys, and the PDP-11/10S In-Reply-To: <009B846F.CD23727F.35@siva.bris.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, PDP11 Hacker ..... wrote: Scott Ware wrote: > >There is what appears to be an RC clock composed of a 4.7 nF capacitor and > >a multi-turn trimmer potentiometer in the upper left corner of the M7260 > >data path board in my 11/10. It looks like this clock feeds a 74197 > >counter, which has a 5-position rotary switch connected (presumably for > >selecting what the incoming clock is divided by). I'll put a scope on pin (snip) > > If that's the board I think it is, it's an 11/10S. The preset was adjusted at > the factory, and you could set most standard baud rates using the switch. It > can't hurt to measure the frequency, of course. > > I can check the printset next weekend for you if you can't figure it out. I'll measure the UART clock frequency for each position of the rotary switch after I fire up the 11/10 (hopefully this weekend). That should give me all of the information that I need (for now...) Other than the different CPU boards and the ability to function as a "slave" processor to another PDP-11, how does the 11/10S differ from a standard 11/10? My 11/10(S?) (10.5 inch box, single 16kW core plane, most date codes in early '74) was configured as a standalone system when I got it. Were the later 11/10 machines identical to the 11/10S, or did DEC just produce an "improved" CPU board set for the 11/10S and use it in the later 11/10 machines? Of course, I realize that it's possible that some board swapping has taken place and neither is the case. Thanks to everyone for the DEC key information. There isn't quite enough of a key left in the 11/10 for a screwdriver to work. I'll probably pull out the keyswitch and take it (and the key code for the 11/24 key) to a locksmith sometime in the near future. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From manney at nwohio.com Tue Aug 5 12:03:12 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story Message-ID: <199708061649.JAA06949@mx5.u.washington.edu> I've had (2) VT-100 terminals hanging around for awhile. Anyone want them? I'll have to check & see if they fire up. Manney > I'll keep an eye out for a VT-100 or such then....it doesnt look likely > I'll find a keyboard for the Altos anyhow. I think I've seen VT-100's for > about $50 on the newsgroups. > From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Wed Aug 6 08:23:47 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Rescue - A Story In-Reply-To: <77008DD40933@ifrsys.com> Message-ID: On 05-Aug-97, Jeff Kaneko wrote: >If you're talking about the Altos III terminals (minus their >keyboards), I wouldn't give up just yet. IIRC, they used WYSE >terminals with (slightly) customized roms. If the keyboard plug is >round (kinda like a DIN plug, but with lots more pins) then a WY-50 >keyboard should work. Jeff, Yes, I'm still referring to the Altos III, and yes it does have a DIN plug with I believe 10 connectors. Thanks for the info! Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 6 19:00:56 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Consoles, Keys, and the PDP-11/10S In-Reply-To: from "Scott Ware" at Aug 6, 97 10:51:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2061 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/9f6d7b24/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Aug 6 20:04:18 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: You were in Field Service? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 6, 97 08:14:27 am Message-ID: <9708070004.AA01518@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1236 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970806/121920e1/attachment-0001.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 6 20:32:21 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: new addition: grid laptop Message-ID: <970806213034_279763770@emout09.mail.aol.com> i traded my brother a ncr mca box for something called a grid compass ][ 1129. it's a quite large laptop with what seems to be in a metal case and a 3.5x5 inch screen. it also has an access door with 4 roms installed; gridrom 3.1.5 write/term/format, gridrom 3.1.0 grid-os system, gridmail 103.2.2 and gridos utility rom, 3.1.0 the machine works, but only from ac power. it also has a screen saver with bouncing balls! =D my brother says he got it from a guy who worked in the aerospace industry who said this machine was supposedly used to compute some kind of vectors or something or other for the space shuttle program back in the 80's although i have no way of quantifying that. on the back of the machine there is a proprietary serial connector and phone jacks and something called a GPIB port; can anyone say what that is? i'm still trying to figure out the preloaded apps, but i've stumbled upon a passwoid option which i may have to hack through. i welcome any info or opinions on this beast. it's esoteric enough to keep in my collection. david From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 6 22:37:00 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: new addition: grid laptop In-Reply-To: <970806213034_279763770@emout09.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >he got it from a guy who worked in the aerospace industry who said this >machine was supposedly used to compute some kind of vectors or something or >other for the space shuttle program back in the 80's although i have no way When I was in DC in the early 90's the "National Aerospace Museum" had a Grid Laptop in part of their computer/aerospace exibit, and it was in the Space Shuttle section. However, I think that one was a IBM clone running DOS or Windows. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 6 22:40:08 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: You were in Field Service? In-Reply-To: <9708070004.AA01518@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Make sure you have exactly two cab kits between the UDA50 and the RA81. > I'm not sure what your "direct connection" is... Was: UDA50----cable----->RA81 Should be: UDA50------->box from bottom of RA rack------>RA81 Is this correct? The RA81 was in a separate rack with 2 other RAs. I got it, the little box that the SDI cables plugged into at the bottom of the rack, and the terminator box. It is now sitting on top of the PDP cabinet. > > Also, it helps with multi-cabinet setups if you make real sure that > there's a solid ground connection between the two cabinets. Bolting > them together usually does the job :-) > Does sitting it on the cabinet count? I'd rack mount it, but I'd get a hernia doing it. I'd get Jeff to do it, maybe he could smash the OTHER foot... (He has broken the SAME FOOT 3 TIMES THIS YEAR! [Clutz!]) That waits till I get that little ladder, it's the right height to hold it for me. > The UDA50 has a little bank of LED's that monitor the initialization > process. Can you post the pattern they go through? They end up all on, I think. It's not here in front of me (Wish it was!) I'll post that later. I have plugged a terminal into the drive and tested it as per the documentation. It passed all the tests. That's a neat trick! Like to see an IDE of SCSI disk do that... Is there a list of commands that the drive understands? From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Aug 7 00:19:19 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: <33E95AD7.737AC7C@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or complete the missing data. I would like a month/year for the first customer shipment or the first public working demonstration of the machines. Please provide references where possible, if they are on-line then so much the better. I am also planning to extend the information per machine to include data about processor used, word-size, memory configurations etc. so feel free to add that data also. I have set the reply to address to my personal Email so as not to clutter the mail list. You can always go to the CCC to recover the updated data. If there are enopugh requests I can post an updated preview table here before the CCC gets updated. I would also be interested in a potted history of the manufacturer, date started where located and significant events in its history. I know most of this is probably available on the NET for Atari, but not for some of the more obscure companies. CCC list for Atari I think I am correct in saying that all Atari machines were designed in the USA. 400 Dec-78 800 1979 1200XL 1982 600XL 1983 800XL 1983 1040 ST 1985 130XE 1985 520 STfm 1985 520 ST Jan-85 65XE Jan-85 Mega ST 1987 Mega STe 1987 XE Game system 1987 STe 1990 TT 1990 1024 STe 1040 STf 1040 STfm 260 ST 2600 520 ST+ 520 STe 520 STm 800XE ATR-8000 Falcon 16 Mega 1 Mega 4 STacy STbook TT/16 Thanks for you help Hans B Pufal From kyrrin at wizards.net Thu Aug 7 00:45:48 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Need to make bootable TK50 tape Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970806224548.00e733e0@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, I've been loaned the full-service diagnostics tape for the MicroVAX II. I've attempted to copy said tape using a pair of SCSI TK50 drives and a binary (bit-by-bit) image copy utility. It didn't work. For some bizarre reason, I cannot boot from the copy. Question: Short of installing a second TK50 in the MicroVAX long enough to make a mirror-image copy under VMS (which is something else I don't know how to do yet), what can I do here? This is a limited-time deal; I do need to have the tape back to its original owners next week. Another question: Can I initialize the target tape with VMS in some way to make it bootable, and then copy the diags from the source tape? Please help! If I can solve this, I'll be able to archive the thing on CD-ROM and make the image available to other MicroVAXen owners. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 7 01:27:23 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? References: <3.0.1.32.19970806224548.00e733e0@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: <33E96ACB.6AA5E566@rain.org> I was checking through some boxes and found these DEC 8" floppy disks dated April 1980. They have gotten separated from something here and I have no idea what at this point. Anyone know what these things are? There are several other boxes of disks but these were the only thing I saw that might give a clue as to what machine they run on. BA-F021I-MC CZZMCI0 DYDP+3 LSI-11 #1 BA-F048H-MC CZZMTH0 DYDP+20 LSI-11 #2 BA-F558D-MC CZZMZD0 DYDP+26 LSI-11 #3 BA-F019F-MC CZZMAF0 DYDP+1 XXDP UTILITY BA-F022I-MC CZZMDIO DYDP+4 DEC/X11 #1 BA-F049I-MC CZZMDIO DYDP+4 DEC/X11 #2 From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Aug 7 01:41:59 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: Hi again. :) I can't add much, as I only recently started looking into Atari history, but the 800xe was released in 1985, and the portfolio, if you choose to include it, in 1988. Hope it helps a bit, Adam. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 7 07:27:57 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? Message-ID: <199708071227.AA19615@world.std.com> < I recently aquired a 1040 STf, what's the deal with the f designator, anyone know? Im still workin on finding a monitor. ---------- > From: Hans Pufal > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: CCC : Atari machines > Date: Thursday, August 07, 1997 12:19 AM > > OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by > Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or > complete the missing data. > > I would like a month/year for the first customer shipment or the first > public working demonstration of the machines. Please provide references > where possible, if they are on-line then so much the better. > > I am also planning to extend the information per machine to include data > about processor used, word-size, memory configurations etc. so feel free > to add that data also. > > I have set the reply to address to my personal Email so as not to > clutter the mail list. You can always go to the CCC to recover the > updated data. If there are enopugh requests I can post an updated > preview table here before the CCC gets updated. > > I would also be interested in a potted history of the manufacturer, date > started where located and significant events in its history. I know most > of this is probably available on the NET for Atari, but not for some of > the more obscure companies. > > CCC list for Atari > > I think I am correct in saying that all Atari machines were designed in > the USA. > > 400 Dec-78 > 800 1979 > 1200XL 1982 > 600XL 1983 > 800XL 1983 > 1040 ST 1985 > 130XE 1985 > 520 STfm 1985 > 520 ST Jan-85 > 65XE Jan-85 > Mega ST 1987 > Mega STe 1987 > XE Game system 1987 > STe 1990 > TT 1990 > 1024 STe > 1040 STf > 1040 STfm > 260 ST > 2600 > 520 ST+ > 520 STe > 520 STm > 800XE > ATR-8000 > Falcon 16 > Mega 1 > Mega 4 > STacy > STbook > TT/16 > > Thanks for you help > > Hans B Pufal From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Thu Aug 7 08:45:19 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: <199708070945_MC2-1C91-3D54@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by Atari. < "Machines" really isn't the operative word; for instance, the list does not include the Atari Pong, 5200 and 7800 game consoles. I assume what you are trying to put together is a list of Atari "computers". That in turn takes some philosophical interpretation as to what constitutes a "computer". The 2600 game console is on the list; I assume it's there because Atari made a BASIC cartridge and a so-called "keyboard" controller for the unit, so it was technically possible to do some quasi-BASIC programming on it, not unlike a real computer. Of course, it only had something like 50 bytes of RAM available (not 50K bytes; just 50 bytes). The number of keys on the cheesy "keyboard" controllers were so few that each key had to do triple duty depending on what "color mode" it was in at the time. (If that didn't turn people off on BASIC programming, I don't know what would.) t had no way to attach a printer, and it could not save to or load from tape (or any other storage medium), so any programs developed could not be preserved. So, is that a "computer" or not? Then, Atari produced at least some "real" add-on keyboard units for the 2600. I believe they were originally called "The Graduate", but made it to market in 1982 as "My First Computer". They had 8K, expandable to 32K, and apparently saved/loaded from standard cassette units. So does the 2600 become a "real" computer at that point, and/or should "My First Computer" be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a cartridge game machine too.) Gil Parrish 107765.1161@compuserve.com From idavis at comland.com Thu Aug 7 10:09:42 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: 1040STf Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970807150942.00909004@mail.comland.com> At 08:20 AM 8/7/97 -0500, Bill Girnius wrote: >I recently aquired a 1040 STf, what's the deal with the f designator, >anyone know? Im still workin on finding a monitor. > >---------- Bill, STF means ST+internal _F_loppy drive. There is a good web page with a bunch of ST stats and info at: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/aseabrook/a_models.htm Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis@comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 7 10:23:55 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? References: <199708071227.AA19615@world.std.com> Message-ID: <33E9E88B.55A2E3BF@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > < > > Marvin, > > For the clue impaired , the machine is LSI-11 Aka PDP-11. Those are > what > are known as xxdp diagnostics for rx02. they are quit hand to hae if > you > have a pdp11. I figured they were probably for the LSI-11 but beyond that, I didn't have a clue. I have several PDP computers including the 8i, 05, and 23. Are these similar to the paper tape diagnostics for the PDP 8? Also, is the disk format such that they have to be read on a DEC computer or can they be read on other machines? Thanks! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 7 11:42:01 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Need to make bootable TK50 tape In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970806224548.00e733e0@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 6, 97 10:45:48 pm Message-ID: <9708071542.AA02443@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/eb341aa4/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 7 11:44:54 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? In-Reply-To: <33E9E88B.55A2E3BF@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 7, 97 08:23:55 am Message-ID: <9708071544.AA02474@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 596 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/88ca731d/attachment-0001.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 7 11:12:40 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: DEC Floppy Disks for ??? Message-ID: <199708071612.AA19245@world.std.com> Marvin, Please help identify these pieces of hardware! I finally got around to shooting some pictures of these to help ID them. Item #1: An 8080 prototype board. Who made this? http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I001.JPG Item #2: A SCSI hard disk interface box for some home computer. It has a 50-pin female edge connector on the left, an edge connector on the upper right labeled 'printer' and a 50-pin male pin connector for the hard disk. What machine is this for? http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I002.JPG Item #3: A front panel. The switches are labeled CLR, STP, MRD, MWR, ADR, EXE and numbers 2 through 15. What mainframe did this come from? http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I004.JPG Item #4: Another front panel. No bezel on this one. Has black IMSAI-style paddle switches and a hex keypad. http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I005.JPG thanks all! Kai From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 7 16:16:16 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Help identify these hardware items! (picture links) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C4AFB2@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 7, 97 10:53:26 am Message-ID: <9708072016.AA03262@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 391 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970807/d142e22a/attachment-0001.ksh From starling at umr.edu Thu Aug 7 16:27:53 1997 From: starling at umr.edu (starling@umr.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <33E95AD7.737AC7C@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> from "Hans Pufal" at Aug 7, 97 07:19:19 am Message-ID: <199708072127.QAA24392@saucer.cc.umr.edu> > OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by > Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or > complete the missing data. Missing Atari Computer: Atari ATW Transputer -- They only made like 5,000 of these and I WANT ONE!!!! Now that I have my Lisa, this is my next Holy Grail. It was Atari's stab at the unix workstation market. It was a multiprocessor setup that had a 68000 as some sort of main brain and then you plugged in modules that had Transputer T800 processors on them, max 12. It ran some nifty OS called Helios and had semi-ok graphics capabilities. There's a decent page about it SOMEWHERE in Germany I think, but I can't seem to find it right now. It came out somewhere around 1988-ish. If you speak French, you can go to: http://www.utbm.fr/les.personnes/Jerome.Steiner/histoire/odi.htm Did you mention the Atari Portfolio? I can't remember. It was Atari's little palmtop organizer thingy... There were a few ST portables too, where there? And don't forget the clones that are still being made... * From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Thu Aug 7 14:54:01 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Help identify these hardware items! (picture links) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C4AFB2@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708072353.TAA10564@mail.cgocable.net> > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:53:26 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Help identify these hardware items! (picture links) > Please help identify these pieces of hardware! I finally got around to > shooting some pictures of these to help ID them. > > Item #1: An 8080 prototype board. Who made this? > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I001.JPG > > Item #2: A SCSI hard disk interface box for some home computer. It has > a 50-pin female edge connector on the left, an edge connector on the > upper right labeled 'printer' and a 50-pin male pin connector for the > hard disk. What machine is this for? > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I002.JPG > > Item #3: A front panel. The switches are labeled CLR, STP, MRD, MWR, > ADR, EXE and numbers 2 through 15. What mainframe did this come from? > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I004.JPG > > Item #4: Another front panel. No bezel on this one. Has black > IMSAI-style paddle switches and a hex keypad. > http://pw1.netcom.com/~mir/S001I005.JPG This panel could be from one of the Heath S100 series? > > thanks all! > > Kai Sorry, I could be mistaken but nothing to lose at guessing. Jason D. From danjo at xnet.com Thu Aug 7 19:14:09 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Right Now! Message-ID: We are running the Chatroom again for another test - come join us! We are trying to bring my ISP to it knees - don't worry - can't happen. URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/chat/ The Chat software will belly up LONG before the server 8-) We will be on until - oh Midnight CST - maybe 8-) BC From danjo at xnet.com Fri Aug 8 01:43:36 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Second Test Message-ID: Allison, Andy, Brett, Carl, Frank McConnell, Guest, Jim Willing, Kai, Thorhallur, Zane, dseagrave, and spc all came over to the chatroom. A good discussion about TI Silent 700's ensued. The largest number at one time was 7 and it didn't even dent my ISP. Well, as far as I know 8-) For most of us this is something we have heard about but not really tried. Bill Kendrick's Free Chat seems to be pretty good but not really ready for heavy usage. I am in comms with him to see if we can't get it beefed up. The next release is supposed to have multiple chatrooms so we could have a wider range of subjects. I don't know if this is something anybody wants to use. There can be a log of messages that could be condensed to keep everybody informed of any info that is dispensed on the chatroom. This is basically a test for Special Chats - in which case I think the usage would go heavier than 7 - maybe upto 40 at one time. Maybe we could have something like PDP-11 nights or Amiga nights or something like that. I would like to get *authorities* involved. Maybe "Dr. S-100" would like to host a S-100 run - something that is useful anyway. BC From rene at spartacom.nl Fri Aug 8 02:18:28 1997 From: rene at spartacom.nl (SSE Technical Support) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: FW: XT COMPUTERS Message-ID: <01BCA3DC.0943C460.rene@spartacom.nl> -----Original Message----- From: Mr. Self Destruct [SMTP:more@camlaw.rutgers.edu] Sent: donderdag 7 augustus 1997 19:26 To: Rene van der Meer Subject: Re: XT COMPUTERS On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Rene van der Meer wrote: > Hi my name is René Hello. > I am looking for a program that allows me to break the 640kb and uses the > cga memory address to make 768kb I am not sure if this exists I belief so.. I've heard of such programs, but many were machine specific and/or flaky. I'd recommend asking the fellows at the classic computer mailing list at: "classiccmp@u.washington.edu" > it is for a KAYPRO XL > my direst computer that I ever had... > please help me ... > my e-mail address is renemeer@xs4all.nl > I to like old junk Glad to hear that! Les From kevan at motiv.co.uk Fri Aug 8 06:43:41 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Free things available for UK collectors... Message-ID: <199708081143.MAA27369@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Just found this in uk.comp.misc... Does anybody out there collect old Prime kit. IBM, DEC, DG seem to be popular, so what is it about Primes that make them unpopular. I have enquired about the size of this Prime because I know they made a small 50 series machine because we used to have one when I worked for Computervision. ------- Forwarded Message From: Kevin Bradly Newsgroups: uk.comp.misc Subject: Old equipment (Prime, Sun386 etc.) for FREE Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:47:01 +0100 Organization: Bradly Associates Ltd Message-ID: <3wf0lAAF0t6zEABY@bradassoc.co.uk> Hi We have some redundant computer equipment that we are happy to give away for free providing it is collected from our premises. The following is available: PRIME 2350, 4Mb memory, 258Mb disk, 60Mb tape cartridge Mag-Tape unit, PT250 terminal SUN 386i workstation, 8Mb memory, 327Mb disk, 19" colour monitor, 60Mb tape cartidge DEC Rainbow PC100+, 10Mb disk, graphics board, MS-DOS, MS-Fortran. DEC VT125 graphics terminal, greyscale, 768 x 480 resolution PERICOM 7350 colour graphics terminal, 19" monitor, 1024 x 768 PERICOM MG200 B/W graphics terminal SIGMA 5688 colour graphics terminal Please help me clear some space in our office or suggest any other good rest-homes for this old retired equipment. Kevin Bradly Bradly Associates Ltd Manhattan House 140 High Street Crowthorne Berks. RG45 7AY UK Tel: +44 (0) 1344 779381 Fax: +44 (0) 1344 773168 e-mail: sales@bradassoc.co.uk URL: http://www.bradassoc.co.uk/ ------- End of Forwarded Message From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 8 03:42:50 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <199708071320.IAA28492@challenge.sunflower.com> Message-ID: <199708081215.IAA16773@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 08:20:32 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Bill Girnius" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: CCC : Atari machines > X-To: > I recently aquired a 1040 STf, what's the deal with the f designator, > anyone know? Im still workin on finding a monitor. > Check out comp.sys.atari.st The f meant internal F loppy , an m would mean a RF Modulator for use with a TV. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 8 03:42:46 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <199708070945_MC2-1C91-3D54@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <199708081215.IAA16781@smtp.interlog.com> snip > Then, Atari produced at least some "real" add-on keyboard units for the > 2600. I believe they were originally called "The Graduate", but made it to > market in 1982 as "My First Computer". They had 8K, expandable to 32K, and > apparently saved/loaded from standard cassette units. So does the 2600 > become a "real" computer at that point, and/or should "My First Computer" > be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, > which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the > separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > cartridge game machine too.) Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) ciao Larry From jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu Fri Aug 8 09:26:16 1997 From: jott at maddog.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Free things available for UK collectors... In-Reply-To: <199708081143.MAA27369@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> from "Kevan Heydon" at Aug 8, 97 12:43:41 pm Message-ID: <199708081426.JAA00608@mastif.ee.nd.edu> Hello - Would you be willing to ship the SUN for the cost of shipping? If so I will need the approximate weight of the system. Thanks for your time. John Ott University of Notre Dame Dept. EE 275 Fitzpatrick Hall Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA > > > Just found this in uk.comp.misc... > > Does anybody out there collect old Prime kit. IBM, DEC, DG seem to be > popular, so what is it about Primes that make them unpopular. I have > enquired about the size of this Prime because I know they made a small > 50 series machine because we used to have one when I worked for > Computervision. > > ------- Forwarded Message > From: Kevin Bradly > Newsgroups: uk.comp.misc > Subject: Old equipment (Prime, Sun386 etc.) for FREE > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:47:01 +0100 > Organization: Bradly Associates Ltd > Message-ID: <3wf0lAAF0t6zEABY@bradassoc.co.uk> > > Hi > > We have some redundant computer equipment that we are happy to give away > for free providing it is collected from our premises. > The following is available: > > PRIME 2350, 4Mb memory, 258Mb disk, 60Mb tape cartridge > Mag-Tape unit, PT250 terminal > > SUN 386i workstation, 8Mb memory, 327Mb disk, 19" colour monitor, > 60Mb tape cartidge > > DEC Rainbow PC100+, 10Mb disk, graphics board, MS-DOS, MS-Fortran. > > DEC VT125 graphics terminal, greyscale, 768 x 480 resolution > > PERICOM 7350 colour graphics terminal, 19" monitor, 1024 x 768 > > PERICOM MG200 B/W graphics terminal > > SIGMA 5688 colour graphics terminal > > > Please help me clear some space in our office or suggest any other good > rest-homes for this old retired equipment. > > Kevin Bradly > Bradly Associates Ltd > Manhattan House > 140 High Street > Crowthorne > Berks. RG45 7AY > UK > > Tel: +44 (0) 1344 779381 > Fax: +44 (0) 1344 773168 > e-mail: sales@bradassoc.co.uk > URL: http://www.bradassoc.co.uk/ > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: ott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Aug 8 09:43:09 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: The strange devices that were pictured. Message-ID: <199708081443.JAA25746@challenge.sunflower.com> I've been snooping around and I think that box with the label Supra on it, is an external SCSI HOST adapter for an ATARI ST. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Fri Aug 8 10:05:11 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Second Test Message-ID: <199708081505.AA19634@maddog.swec.com> On Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:43:36 -0500, Brett spake thusly unto us: > Allison, Andy, Brett, Carl, Frank McConnell, Guest, Jim Willing, Kai, > Thorhallur, Zane, dseagrave, and spc all came over to the chatroom. > A good discussion about TI Silent 700's ensued. I either arrived late for the S700 chat, or departed early, so I missed it. The software seems to work well enough, although it some- times slowed to a crawl (which could have been my comms line). Next time, I'll try to be _awake_! (And running a different browser - I think Lynx may be excellent for the task.) > I don't know if this is something anybody wants to use. On the surface of it, it looked very interesting; I'm certainly game for another round. The only fly-in-the-ointment is getting chats scheduled and publicised. A look at the S-100 would be interesting. ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 8 10:29:47 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Second Test Message-ID: <199708081529.AA20209@world.std.com> Hi René, I guess that would be my specialty. The PC memory map looks like this: C000 - FFFF - Various open areas depending on the individual machine, plus the BIOS B800 - BFFF - Low resolution (CGA or EGA/VGA low res/text) video (if present) B000 - B7FF - Monochrome adapter (if present) A000 - AFFF - High resolution (EGA/VGA) video (if present) 0000 - 9FFF- Base 640K I think what you mean is you'd like to use the high resolution area from A000-AFFF to increase base RAM size. The low resolution area is not contiguous with base RAM so it can't be used to increase base RAM size. The trick is, there is no RAM in this location that you can use to increase the base memory. So, you have to put RAM there somehow (no, video RAM won't work). There are various methods to do this. On a 386 or above, the virtual memory management allows a 386-up memory manager such as EMM386, QEMM386, or 386MAX to map memory into that location. On a 286, you could use various LIM 4.0 compliant expanded memory boards (e.g. Intel AboveBoard Plus) or a wacky device called an ALL Charge Card, along with special software to map memory into the location. On an 8088, you had to use a special card, which was a very simple device containing 64K or more of RAM, along with address selection switches. The card would map RAM into that location, and came with software to extend apparent DOS RAM. Kai > ---------- > From: SSE Technical Support > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 12:18 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: FW: XT COMPUTERS > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mr. Self Destruct [SMTP:more@camlaw.rutgers.edu] > Sent: donderdag 7 augustus 1997 19:26 > To: Rene van der Meer > Subject: Re: XT COMPUTERS > > > On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Rene van der Meer wrote: > > > Hi my name is René > > Hello. > > > I am looking for a program that allows me to break the 640kb and > uses the > > cga memory address to make 768kb I am not sure if this exists I > belief so.. > > I've heard of such programs, but many were machine specific and/or > flaky. > I'd recommend asking the fellows at the classic computer mailing list > at: > "classiccmp@u.washington.edu" > > > it is for a KAYPRO XL > > my direst computer that I ever had... > > please help me ... > > my e-mail address is renemeer@xs4all.nl > > I to like old junk > > Glad to hear that! > Les > From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 8 15:50:20 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85809@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <33EB868B.E97E54E1@rain.org> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > On a 286, you could use various LIM 4.0 compliant expanded > memory boards > (e.g. Intel AboveBoard Plus) or a wacky device called an > ALL Charge > Card, along with special software to map memory into the > location. Quarterdeck also had a program that would expand available memory on a 286 above 640K called QRAM. I used to have it many moons ago, but got rid of it when I was cleaning house. Somehow, it also would map memory into the A000-AFFF on a mono card, but would also make more memory available even with the EGA card. Can't remember how though. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Aug 8 16:06:55 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Quarterdeck QRAM only did that with NEAT or LEAP chip sets from Chips & Technologies, by using the shadow RAM mapping, and required 1MB on the motherboard, not 640K. I didn't think that was a significant enough market share to mention. It would also work with a LIM 4.0 EMS board as I mentioned earlier. Kai > ---------- > From: Marvin > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 1:50 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: XT COMPUTERS > > Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > > > On a 286, you could use various LIM 4.0 compliant expanded > > memory boards > > (e.g. Intel AboveBoard Plus) or a wacky device called an > > ALL Charge > > Card, along with special software to map memory into the > > location. > > Quarterdeck also had a program that would expand available > memory on a 286 above 640K called QRAM. I used to have it > many moons ago, but got rid of it when I was cleaning > house. Somehow, it also would map memory into the A000-AFFF > on a mono card, but would also make more memory available > even with the EGA card. Can't remember how though. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 8 16:23:27 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85809@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 8, 97 01:07:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970808/f996257d/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 8 17:09:50 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Missing RA81 terminator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm missing one of the RA81 terminators. Can I build one? From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 8 17:42:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <33EBA0DF.29DE9D7E@rain.org> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Quarterdeck QRAM only did that with NEAT or LEAP chip sets > from Chips & > Technologies, by using the shadow RAM mapping, and > required 1MB on the > motherboard, not 640K. I didn't think that was a > significant enough > market share to mention. Ah, so that was the trick. After I saw your comments about the EGA card and using additional memory, I seem to recall that QRAM could also use the video RAM on the EGA card while it was running in mono mode but may have required a TSR to allow that. From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 8 17:51:35 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Targa Boards References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <33EBA2F7.AB54F3B0@rain.org> There was a discussion a while ago about digitizing photos and how it would be neat to use the early technology to do so. I have the Targa 16 and Targa 24 video capture boards and figured it was worth a try and am just starting to try and set them up. The three boards I have are all circa 1985. The Targa 16 supports composite video so I will try that first. They came with some software called TIPS that apparently allows this to be done. Only problem is an unreadable Disk 2. I am going to try and see if a 360K drive will read it any better. I also have Pizazz Plus that supports the Targa boards but I don't see support for saving the files to a standard TIF file. Has anyone used the Targa boards and and can this be done without having to write specialized software? Also, has anyone used the TIPS software? Thanks. From pcoad at crl.com Fri Aug 8 17:46:52 1997 From: pcoad at crl.com (Paul E Coad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: (fwd) 3b2 FS or For Grabs Message-ID: Found this in comp.sys.3b1. It could be a pretty good deal if you are in the NY area. It may not yet quite yet be a classic, but it should be soon. --pec -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html -- forwarded message -- Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.3b1,comp.sys,nonpc Path: nnrp1.crl.com!news.znet.com!uunet!in5.uu.net!hotmomma!hotmomma!biancx!larry From: larry@biancx.com (Larry Racies) Subject: 3b2 FS or For Grabs Message-ID: Organization: Newsreel Service Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:56:40 GMT Lines: 11 Xref: nnrp1.crl.com comp.sys.att:7992 comp.sys.3b1:8535 comp.sys:574 T&T 3b2-400 in a 310 case SVR3 installed Plus 16 AT&T manuals and a few floppies. You name it. Located in NY City. Pick it up and take it away. Larry From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 8 18:25:04 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: New boards! Vax/10/11/8! Message-ID: I got a whole box of interesting boards! PDP-11 BOARDS: M7264 - PDP11/03 processor, 4k ram, all 4 chip sockets used. Two of these. M8012-YA - Terminators+bootstraps. Two of these. M8716 - DR11-W DMA INTERFACE, DR11-B IN HEX M8728 - 64K MOS MEMORY M8189 - 11/23+ CPU!! This goes in mine! 2 CPUs and an MMU? PDP-8 BOARDS: M8310 - Reg control for KK8E M8300 - Major regs for KK8E M8350 - Pos. IO bus interface M8341 - EAE REGISTER CONTROL M8340 - EAE INSTRUCTION DECODER M8655 - KL8-J, KL8-KA, QUAD, 110 to 9600 CONT, Two of these. DEC10 BOARDS: M8603 - Massbus interface data board M8521 - CACHE DATA M8580 - MF20 DUAL TRANSLATOR, Two of these. M8604 - DX20 MASSBUS INTERFACE CONTROL, HEX M8571 - LP20 DATA PATH W LA180 CAPABILITY M8605 - DX20, DATA PATH BUFFER STORAGE M8743-AF - 1 Meg ECC RAM M8606 - DX20, DATA PATH FORMATTER M8607 - DX20, IBM CHANNEL BUS INTERFACE FOR DX20-C M8558-C - KI MEMORY BUS ADAPTER. Marked "BAD FOR KL10" Doesn't LOOK bad... M8723 - ??? M8579 - MF20-M, 256K 11-bit MOS RAM. Fifteen of these! M8585 - LP20 TRANSLATION RAM. Two of these. M8586 - LP20 CONTROL. M8516 - ECL to TTL translator VAX BOARDS: These make an 11/785 CPU, I think... M7459 - TRS, TERMINATOR & SILO, 11/785 M7463 - KA785, CDM, CACHE DATA MATRIX M7474 - KA785, CLK, CPU CLOCK M7462 - KA785, CAM, CACHE ADDR MATRIX M7475 - KA785, JCS, JOINT CONTROL STORE M7467 - KA785, DEP, CPU DATA PATH "B" M7472 - KA785, CEH, CONDITION CODES, EXCEPTIONS, HIGH BITS M7473 - KA785, ICL, (INTERRUPT CONTROL, LOW BITS) M7476 - KA785, USC, MICRO SEQUENCER CONTROL M7477 - KA785, CIB, CPU CONSOLE INTERFACE M7460 - KA785, SBL, SBI CPU LOW BITS INTERFACE How many more do I need to finish a KA785? And when I get them, can I drop this in a Unibus or is it a special bus? From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Fri Aug 8 11:27:07 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: <199708081215.IAA16781@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On 08-Aug-97, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, >> which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the >> separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> cartridge game machine too.) > Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a >keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a >manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) Larry, I believe that initially, the XEGS keyboard was optional though. The wording in the keyboard's manaul, at least the one I have, seems to support this. The argument of whether the XEGS is a game console or a computer is one that has been going on in the newsgroups for quite some time off and on. Jeff Jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 8 23:05:37 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Effort Message-ID: <199708090405.AA09507@world.std.com> Paul, Sent this to the list. as it's generally useful. Anyone want any EPROMS? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:41:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1@aol.com To: dastar@crl.com Subject: Re: HHC docs Sam, Will do.It'll be out to you tomorrow first thing.Incidentally you might ask that gentleman or any other interested parties for that matter if they have a need for HHC eproms.I have a little over 5000 of them which I've been offered a nominal salvage value for and I'll probably unload the whole batch fairly soon. Regards,Mike From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 9 09:41:53 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: 11/23 Finally Works! Message-ID: I dropped in the 11/23+ CPU and everything worked fine, except that my EDSI harddisk has bought the big one... According to ROM diags, I have EIS and FIS for CPU options and 1024Kwords RAM. I plugged in my Infinite Loop and it ran. The one-instruction infinite loop doesn't work, at 1000 it jumps to 1006 (JMP (PC)). And the RX02 responds NO DISK, which is correct. Now all I need to do is go find an operating system! Does anyone have any programs or etc. that can be dropped in core with ODT? From dastar at crl.com Sat Aug 9 10:09:53 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Us Computer Exchange Message-ID: A guy sent me e-mail soliciting some old computer stuff to sell. Here's what he told me he has: Lots of DEC stuff: PDP-11/70s MicroVax(en) Tape Drives, etc. Parts, etc. A couple Intel development computers. Didn't go too much into detail about these other than the fact that they have dual 8" drives. Sounds neat. This guy is Rob Campbell. He is in Detroit, Michigan. His number is (248) 583-9000. Call him, talk to him. Sounds like a reasonable guy. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com Sat Aug 9 16:49:53 1997 From: jeffh at unix.aardvarkol.com (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: this list Message-ID: <199708092149.RAA13560@unix.aardvarkol.com> Well as much as I hate to do it, this will be my last message to this group for a while. Up until the first of the year, I'll be on the road anywhere from 10 to 30+ days at a time, and this group generates far too many messages for me to allow it to build up between retrievals! For those of you that I deal with quite a bit, as well as those who might find info that may be of interest to me and wish to send it, my email address below will still be valid. I've gotten a lot out of this group, so keep up the good work! Jeff jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 10:33:53 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Us Computer Exchange Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810113351.00a7bea0@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Sam Ismail happened to blather: [snip] >This guy is Rob Campbell. He is in Detroit, Michigan. His number is >(248) 583-9000. Call him, talk to him. Sounds like a reasonable guy. Uh, Sam? Are you sure this guy's in Detroit? The Area Code for phone numbers in Detroit are either (810) or (313). I've never heard of (248), especially in Michigan. (BTW, I live in the "Better" half of Michigan, in the (906) area code!) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From kyrrin at wizards.net Sun Aug 10 11:00:55 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: Freebies! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970810090055.00e76960@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, Well, Bill Whitson has said he was going to collect these, but I've not heard anything back from him since we missed each other last Sunday. With that in mind, and pending any objection from him, I am offering the following freebies to anyone who wants to pick them up from Kent, WA (southeast of Seattle). 9-track tape drive, GCR-capable, Pertec interface. Made by StorageTek. NOT OPERATIONAL -- needs work. NCR 'I-Tower' computer system, with some manuals and peripherals. Processor is a Motorola 68020 (I think). Condition unknown; fired up OK, but I had no console attached. Case has built-in UPS (batteries may need replacement). Various other odds and ends, including at least one 'tech special' UPS (not on strike) and anything else I feel like unloading on whatever vict... uhh, 'collector' shows up. ;-) Get back to me via E-mail if interested. Weekends work best. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From groberts at mitre.org Sun Aug 10 11:13:33 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:45 2005 Subject: area code In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970810113351.00a7bea0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970810121333.007f6100@mail90> FYI, according to http://www.555-1212.com/aclookup.html The geographical location for area code 248 is Michigan (major cities: Novi, Waterford, Troy). - glenn At 11:33 AM 8/10/97 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: >Whilst in a self-induced trance, Sam Ismail happened to blather: > >[snip] > >>This guy is Rob Campbell. He is in Detroit, Michigan. His number is >>(248) 583-9000. Call him, talk to him. Sounds like a reasonable guy. > >Uh, Sam? > >Are you sure this guy's in Detroit? The Area Code for phone numbers in >Detroit are either (810) or (313). > >I've never heard of (248), especially in Michigan. > >(BTW, I live in the "Better" half of Michigan, in the (906) area code!) > >HTH, >"Merch" >-- >Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, >Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* >zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. > > +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 11:47:22 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: area code Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810124720.00a53500@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Glenn Roberts happened to blather: >FYI, according to > > http://www.555-1212.com/aclookup.html > >The geographical location for area code 248 is Michigan (major cities: >Novi, Waterford, Troy). Gwarsh, is my face red! They must have just instituted it, and that area is getting bigger than I thought! (BTW, my dad was raised in Royal Oak, and my grandparents lived in Troy for many years...) They only put the (810) area code in there around 4-5 years ago, IIRC! Well, if a whole buncha folks smarter than me say it's so, then it's so! BTW, the "better half" of Michigan is known as the Upper Peninsula (We're not even connected to the Lower Peninsula except via the Mackinac Bridge), otherwise known as "God's Country." If you like history, you'd love the area! Mail me private and I'll tell you all about it! "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 10 08:47:36 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines In-Reply-To: References: <199708081215.IAA16781@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199708101728.NAA21074@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 21:27:07 +0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Jeff Hellige > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: CCC : Atari machines > X-To: Lawrence Walker > On 08-Aug-97, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > >> be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, > >> which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the > >> separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> cartridge game machine too.) > > > Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a > >keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a > >manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) > > Larry, > > I believe that initially, the XEGS keyboard was optional though. The > wording in the keyboard's manaul, at least the one I have, seems to support > this. The argument of whether the XEGS is a game console or a computer is one > that has been going on in the newsgroups for quite some time off and on. > > Jeff Jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Amiga enthusiast and collector of early, classic microcomputers > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 The one I have had basic built into it's 32k ROM and was functionally an XE . If the XL and XE qualify then so does the XEGS IMHO. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Aug 10 08:47:28 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205C85855@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708101728.NAA21085@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:06:55 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: RE: XT COMPUTERS > Quarterdeck QRAM only did that with NEAT or LEAP chip sets from Chips & > Technologies, by using the shadow RAM mapping, and required 1MB on the > motherboard, not 640K. I didn't think that was a significant enough > market share to mention. > > It would also work with a LIM 4.0 EMS board as I mentioned earlier. > > Kai > I had a Phillips XT that had 760k RAM. No idea how they did it but it reported the memory available at start-up and definitely didn't use Quarterdeck. ciao larry From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 13:14:35 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: CCC : Atari machines Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810141433.00a63100@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Lawrence Walker happened to blather: >> On 08-Aug-97, Lawrence Walker wrote: >> >> >> be listed instead or separately? (For that matter, the XE Game System, >> >> which is on the list, only becomes a "computer" when the ^^^^^^^^^^ [[ part I missed before I re-read the msg. ]] >> >> separately-marketed keyboard is added to it; otherwise, it is strictly a >> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> cartridge game machine too.) >> >> > Not so . I have one in the original packaging . As well as a >> >keyboard, it also included a joystck and a "light-gun". It also had a >> >manual for Atari Basic AND 2 game cartridges.WOW, what a deal. : ^ ) >> >> Larry, >> >> I believe that initially, the XEGS keyboard was optional though. The >> wording in the keyboard's manaul, at least the one I have, seems to support >> this. The argument of whether the XEGS is a game console or a computer is one >> that has been going on in the newsgroups for quite some time off and on. > The one I have had basic built into it's 32k ROM and was >functionally an XE . If the XL and XE qualify then so does >the XEGS IMHO. After reading the message three times (as I'd misread it twice), I agree with Larry. Let's remember what the true defination of a computer is: "A machine that can perform arithmatic and logical calculations without the aid of a human." My Casio watch -- by defination -- is a computer. (of course, it's not classic _yet_, tho. ;-) The inclusion of a keyboard does not matter to the defination of a computer, else there are many folks with IMSAIs and Altairs with front panel switchboards, which IMHO is not a "keyboard" per se, yet they are computers. The XEGS (or 2600, 5200, 7800 as well) are computers as well. Remember, you _could_ do Basic programming on a 2600! Just MHO, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From kyrrin at wizards.net Sun Aug 10 14:07:17 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Need: RX50 Utility Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970810120717.00e72cd0@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, I have need of a utility that will allow me to read/write RX50 diskettes, initialized with MicroVMS 4.6, on a PC. Formatting ability is not necessary, as I can initialize with the VAXStation. So far, I've tried both PUTR and RX50.EXE (the archive). Neither has worked. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 10 21:53:09 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed Message-ID: <970810225309_-1637074272@emout17.mail.aol.com> i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in north carolina. david From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 10 22:23:19 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970810232317.0093e240@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, SUPRDAVE@aol.com happened to blather: >i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, >and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a >video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i >do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video >port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone >figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get >rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in >north carolina. If it's a sub-miniature DB-15, then that sounds like a PC VGA plug-in. If it's a normal-sized DB-15, then that sounds like it's a direct-connect for a later-model Smackintosh. (I say this jokingly, I have one...) When I say later-model, I'm talking a Mac IIsi or something like that, altho I think the PowerMacs use that connector as well, and I believe it's compatible. (I had my Mac IIsi hooked up to the monitor we use for a PowerMac 6100/60 at work, and it worked fine.) If you're looking to get rid of it, I would pay shipping to Michigan... yea, it'd be expensive, but if it's a nice tube, it would make my Mac happy... (all I have is the base, but it only cost me $5 and it works!) Got a keyboard & mouse to round out the deal??? ;-) HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 10 23:46:08 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed In-Reply-To: <970810225309_-1637074272@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, >and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. i'm having a >video problem with the monitor. i don't get any kind of raster screen and i >do not have the special card to run it on my //e. i've tried it on the video >port of my laser 128 and on my dodgy apple ///, all to no avail. can anyone >figure out a possible solution? if i cannot get it to work, i'd like to get >rid of it, but it's so heavy it wouldnt be worth shipping unless you live in >north carolina. I don't suppose you have a Apple IIgs you can try it out on? They use a DB15 connectory and RGB monitors. I've heard that some of the early Mac's can use RGB monitors, but have never gotten around to trying out any of mine on one of my RGB monitors. Out of curosity when you say big, just how big do you mean? I've seen some monitors with a tilt screen, but I didn't think they were motorized (might have been). Since it is beige and RGB the odds are it was intended for the Apple IIe or III, if it was for the IIgs or any Mac that could handle a external monitor it would be platinum. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marcw at lightside.com Sun Aug 10 20:51:43 1997 From: marcw at lightside.com (marcw@lightside.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS Message-ID: <199708110446.VAA29226@covina.lightside.com> > I had a Phillips XT that had 760k RAM. No idea how they did it but > it reported the memory available at start-up and definitely didn't > use Quarterdeck. > > ciao larry > My Tandy 1000 HX has a memory board giving me 736K RAM (and EMS). I don't know how they do it but it's pretty neat. That added new life to this old machine though. Marc -- >> ANIME SENSHI << Marc D. Williams marcw@lightside.com Lightside, Inc. marc.williams@mb.fidonet.org The MailBox BBS marc.williams@652.sasbbs.com Paradigm Shift BBS IRC Nick: Senshi Channel: #dos #IrcHelp http://www.agate.net/~tvdog/internet.html -- DOS Internet Tools From mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu Mon Aug 11 06:00:30 1997 From: mpsayler at cs.utexas.edu (Matthew Sayler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: XT COMPUTERS In-Reply-To: <199708110446.VAA29226@covina.lightside.com>; from marcw@lightside.com on Sun, Aug 10, 1997 at 08:51:43PM +0000 References: <199708110446.VAA29226@covina.lightside.com> Message-ID: <19970811060030.13465@beret.cs.utexas.edu> I remember back in '97 when marcw@lightside.com wrote: > My Tandy 1000 HX has a memory board giving me 736K RAM (and EMS). > I don't know how they do it but it's pretty neat. Heck, if you want to count EMS, my old Zenith Z-159 could be expanded to something like 6MB (4 cards @ 1.5MB/card). As I recall, upgrading the first memory board (which contained the 640k to start) involved replacing a PAL or two and just adding the chips. m@ -- /* Matt Sayler -- mpsayler@cs.utexas.edu -- Austin, Texas (512)457-0086 -- http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/mpsayler Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? */ From dgc at pa.dec.com Mon Aug 11 10:42:39 1997 From: dgc at pa.dec.com (David G Conroy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Morrow MD1 Message-ID: <9708111542.AA13944@src-mail.pa.dec.com> does anyone have technical documentation (prints would be nice, but just a high quality description of what's where in the address space of the z80 would make following out things easier) for a Morrow micro-decision md-1. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 11 14:24:59 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Need: RX50 Utility In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970810120717.00e72cd0@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 10, 97 12:07:17 pm Message-ID: <9708111824.AA07963@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 778 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970811/08271946/attachment-0001.ksh From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 11 13:45:28 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: <9708111542.AA13944@src-mail.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: <33EF5DC8.765B68EC@rain.org> d?? From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 11 14:08:39 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires References: <9708111824.AA07963@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <33EF6336.BF31D5FA@rain.org> I just read the book "Accidental Empires" by Robert X. Cringely that was the basis for the PBS movie, "Triumph of the Nerds." The book deals primarily with the early personalities who were instrumental to the success of Apple and Microsoft. It is very liberally sprinkled with Cringely's ideas of why the major players were successful as well as the mistakes they made. I found it a bit disappointing in that very little mention is made of CP/M, its history, or the associated people, companies, and machines. However a lot of Apple and Microsoft history gets included and I found the anecdotes to be most interesting! I wouldn't call it a "must read" but rather something that gives one authors perspective on the happenings and sometimes behind the scenes events that created this industry. From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 11 14:51:22 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Latest trade list Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC228@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> OK, it's been a month or two since my last trade list post, so here goes: Computers For Trade: - Apple II+ - Apple IIgs (cpu only, appears to have 192K) - Apple IIgs (cpu only, appears to have 320K) - Apple Macintosh 128 w/correct keyboard & mouse, boot disk - Atari 800, fully populated 48K - Atari 520STfm - Atari 1040STf - Atari 1040STf (missing some keys) - Commodore 64 in original box - Commodore 128D (rare 128 with built-in 1571 drive & PS, separate kbd) - North Star Horizon, wood case model - Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I CPU & monitor (supply your own PS) - Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 with 16K RAM Expansion Peripherals For Trade: - Bell & Howell "Black Apple" Disk II drive (labeled drive 1) - Commodore Amiga 5 1/4" drive (Rare!) - ICL Multi I/O SCSI HD interface for Atari 8-bit with 130XE connector - SoftStrip Reader (extremely rare) - Supra SCSI HD interface for Atari ST Game Systems/Games For Trade: - GCE/Milton Bradley Vectrex - Magnavox Odyssey2 in original box - Tengen Tetris cart for NES WANTED: - Anything MITS, IMSAI, etc. and various other S-100 and/or 8080/Z-80 stuff; drive systems, cards... - Battery for Apple Macintosh Portable - Battery for IBM PC Convertible - Apple Lisa Mouse - Apple-II-On-A-Card for PC (Quadram, Trackstar) - Exidy Sorcerer - 1975 BYTEs, Popular Electronics, 1974-75 Radio Electronics - Brochures, ads, Micro Shopper/Byte Shopper, etc. - Posters - Robert Tinney prints - Microsoft Adventure From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 11 14:58:20 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC236@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Does anyone know what a Corvus Concept is? thanks Kai From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 11 15:41:25 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires In-Reply-To: <33EF6336.BF31D5FA@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > I just read the book "Accidental Empires" by Robert X. Cringely that was the > basis for the PBS movie, "Triumph of the Nerds." The book deals primarily > with the early personalities who were instrumental to the success of Apple > and Microsoft. It is very liberally sprinkled with Cringely's ideas of why > the major players were successful as well as the mistakes they made. I > found it a bit disappointing in that very little mention is made of CP/M, > its history, or the associated people, companies, and machines. However a > lot of Apple and Microsoft history gets included and I found the anecdotes > to be most interesting! I wouldn't call it a "must read" but rather > something that gives one authors perspective on the happenings and sometimes > behind the scenes events that created this industry. I'll add that I thought the book to be extremely entertaining and a great read. I'll comment on the fact that not much mention was made of CP/M in that history seldom celebrates the losers. (No I don't mean CP/M or Mr. Kildall are losers! Just that it lost the OS wars.) Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Mon Aug 11 16:23:27 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Latest trade list In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC228@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 11, 97 12:51:22 pm Message-ID: <199708112123.RAA00253@hiway1.exit109.com> Hi! Out of curiousity, do you have cash values attached to any of the stuff on your trade list? I confess to an interest in one of the Apple //gs's, but the closes I have to anything on your want list is a disk-only copy of Microsoft Adventure (13-sector, no less). Thanks... <<>> From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Mon Aug 11 16:23:36 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires Message-ID: <01IMBGL8HBDEBDNC5E@cc.usu.edu> On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > I just read the book "Accidental Empires" by Robert X. Cringely that was the > basis for the PBS movie, "Triumph of the Nerds." Sam Ismail wrote: > I'll add that I thought the book to be extremely entertaining and a great > read. I'll comment on the fact that not much mention was made of CP/M in > that history seldom celebrates the losers. I just recently saw "Triumph of the Nerds" (playing a lot lately on a PBS station near you, no doubt) and was fascinated by the view of history presented in it. Basically, if it did not involve Apple, Microsoft, or IBM, it wasn't history; they only started talking about CP/M when it got to the "and IBM needed an operating system" part of the story. One curious bit. The statement that Apple had 50% of the PC market share when IBM came out with its PC stuck in my mind. Going through my pile of old BYTE magazines, I found a BYTE from that era (well, 1984 actually; which is actually a match for era because they were building up the Macintosh story) which gives 50% of the market share to Tandy... Roger "cut my teeth on a TRS-80 Model I" Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 11 16:48:30 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: <9708111542.AA13944@src-mail.pa.dec.com> <33EF5DC8.765B68EC@rain.org> Message-ID: <33EF88AE.CAE0A352@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > d?? I did not! Somehow the message got scrambled . Anyway, I have something called a VersaWriter that I neither know what it is or what it goes to for sure. Basically it consists of a 1/4" piece of plastic 12" x 14" with an arm attached. The ribbon cable going to the arm ends at a 16 Pin DIP plug that looks the same as those that plug into an Apple. Anyone know anything about what this is and what it goes to and/or with? Thanks. From gram at cnct.com Mon Aug 11 17:08:21 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Accidental Empires In-Reply-To: <01IMBGL8HBDEBDNC5E@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Roger Ivie wrote: > One curious bit. The statement that Apple had 50% of the PC market share > when IBM came out with its PC stuck in my mind. Going through my pile of > old BYTE magazines, I found a BYTE from that era (well, 1984 actually; which > is actually a match for era because they were building up the Macintosh > story) which gives 50% of the market share to Tandy... > > Roger "cut my teeth on a TRS-80 Model I" Ivie > ivie@cc.usu.edu Tandy rarely released hard numbers of units sold, and since they were vertically integrated (manufacture, distribution _and_ retail), any counts of sales were those in the hands of end users. Apple, IBM, etc. considered a system sold if it was at a Computerland or other retailer, whether or not it actually reached a home or office. This skews the figures a lot when Tandy _did_ release them. Of course, they also had multiple product lines between the strictly home units (Color Computer), home/light office (Model 1/3/4) and serious office (Model 2/12/16/6000). And the Model 100 was a special case: my RSCC delivered at least 500 of those at $1,000 a pop to the Los Angeles Times alone, since _every_ reporter wanted one and the NEC 8201 didn't have the built-in modem. There were a lot of single sales of those as well. Then of course when the Tandy 2000 came out followed by the PC compatibles things started to get confusing. Oh yeah, I forgot the pocket computers. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 11 18:29:52 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: VersaWriter In-Reply-To: <33EF88AE.CAE0A352@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > I did not! Somehow the message got scrambled . Anyway, I have > something called a VersaWriter that I neither know what it is or what it > goes to for sure. Basically it consists of a 1/4" piece of plastic 12" x > 14" with an arm attached. The ribbon cable going to the arm ends at a 16 > Pin DIP plug that looks the same as those that plug into an Apple. Anyone > know anything about what this is and what it goes to and/or with? Thanks. Maybe its an Apple touch pad? Like a Koala pad? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 11 20:38:05 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Hey Bruce - don't get rid of it yet! Message-ID: Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in a cast and car-less (for a while) and can't get to read the list. Maybe we should have a little *Net Get Well* party for him? If you need to talk to him - he is at the Other Address. Let's not flood him under but I think short Get Well's will be appreciated. BC From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 11 20:40:40 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: apple gs rgb monitor help needed. Message-ID: <970811214007_-1035871978@emout20.mail.aol.com> i came across some good luck today and bought an applecolor rgb monitor; looks like it belongs with the gs model. however, when i connect it to a rgb source, all i manage to get is a wavy blue bar and no text. i fiddled with all controls and could stop the rapid scrolling, but that's about it. i still get a diagonal blue bar that moves. does anyone know of an internal control or setting i can check out? i'd hate to think i have TWO apple rgb monitors that are bad! david From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 11 22:56:49 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Corvus Concept In-Reply-To: Kai Kaltenbach's message of Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:58:20 -0700 References: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CCC236@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708120356.UAA12095@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Kai Kaltenbach writes: > Does anyone know what a Corvus Concept is? A little. I have one, haven't actually fired it up as yet but have looked through the manuals a bit. It's a 68000-based system, integrated monochrome graphics, can deal with the monitor in either portrait or landscape rotation. (I'm not sure how it knows which way you've positioned the monitor, I think you have to tell it.) Has built-in Corvus Omninet, which means it can hook up to an Omninet network with other stuff and I believe can be a file server or a diskless system or a diskful stand-alone system. I think Corvus had word processing and spreadsheet software for it, as well as a Pascal compiler. The innards of the operating system (what I saw in the programming manuals) reminded me a lot of UCSD Pascal/p-System, but it didn't seem to have a p-machine in there anywhere, it just ran 68000 code and I guess that is what the Pascal compiler produces. I gathered it would be pretty easy to port stuff developed for UCSD Pascal, and I guess that's not too surprising as there was a bit of that deployed with Corvus networking on Apple ][s. There was a review in Byte sometime in 1984 or maybe 1983. I don't remember and all my Bytes are in storage, with the Concept and the manuals and other documentation I have for it. The monitor is the monitor. The base is where the CPU lives. If it has disks they are in separate boxes; I think I have one that is a hard disk and another that is an 8" floppy drive. There's an external keyboard too. If you have other questions, holler and I'll go find the manuals, I really ought to inventory them anyway. -Frank McConnell From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 02:03:26 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: Message-ID: <33F00ABE.97BE4A5D@rain.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 11 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > something called a VersaWriter that I neither know what it is or what it > > > goes to for sure. Basically it consists of a 1/4" piece of plastic 12" > x > > 14" with an arm attached. The ribbon cable going to the arm ends at a > 16 > > Pin DIP plug that looks the same as those that plug into an Apple. > Anyone > > know anything about what this is and what it goes to and/or with? > Thanks. > > Maybe its an Apple touch pad? Like a Koala pad? No, it was not like a Koala pad or touch pad but more like a digitizing pad. The end of the arm looks like it has a magnifying lens on it. The arm assembly looks a lot like a miniature version of a drafting machine. From kyrrin at wizards.net Tue Aug 12 08:53:28 1997 From: kyrrin at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Yeek! I 'Bruced' him!! In-Reply-To: <199708120702.AAA28687@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970812065328.00e6b620@mail.wizards.net> At 00:02 12-08-97 PDT, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:38:05 -0500 (CDT) >From: Brett >To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Subject: Hey Bruce - don't get rid of it yet! >Message-ID: >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck >going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce >but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in >a cast and car-less (for a while) and can't get to read the list. Maybe >we should have a little *Net Get Well* party for him? Yikes! No offense taken, but I'd prefer to have something a little more pleasant associated with the term -- perhaps being loaded down with hardware? ;-) Anyway.... thanks, Brett! I'm sorry to hear about the wreck, and I will hold the stuff for him until I know one way or the other. Glad to hear it wasn't more serious than a cast. Any details on where or who hit him? There are a couple of hotspots on the route to my place that are unavoidable unless you really know the area well and, for the sake of my own hide, I'm curious as to where he got nailed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From william at ans.net Tue Aug 12 09:17:13 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> I attended a hamfest Sunday, in order to clear out some crap. I managed to get a few things, namely RSX-11M manuals, and a maintenance manual for a big CDC drive. I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM 7090 of some sort. Of course I wretched. The loss of the PDP-8s is bad (I do not know specific model numbers), but the others are a real shame. Known PDP-9s number in the _low_ single digits, the 7090 perhaps less, but old Burroughs equipment is probably extinct. In any case, this shows that the stuff was not _all_ scrapped years ago. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 12 09:33:33 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > 7090 of some sort. I think; I may scream! *How* do we reach these people *before* things like this happen?!? (preferably without starting a mad rush from yuppie collector wannabes!) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 12 09:40:57 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: VersaWriter In-Reply-To: Marvin's message of Tue, 12 Aug 1997 00:03:26 -0700 References: <33F00ABE.97BE4A5D@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708121440.HAA02818@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Marvin writes: > No, it was not like a Koala pad or touch pad but more like a digitizing > pad. The end of the arm looks like it has a magnifying lens on it. The arm > assembly looks a lot like a miniature version of a drafting machine. The arm has joints at its base and middle, right? And the base of the arm is at the top center of the pad? I'd expect this thing to look like two game paddles to an Apple ][, where the obligatory 150K linear pots are mounted at the joints so to report their angles. That and software could get you a tolerable digitizing tablet depending on how tolerant you are and the quality of the pots. My vague recollection is one of seeing it advertised in Creative Computing in the early 1980s, maybe by one of CC's related companies, but I may very well have my wires crossed. -Frank McConnell From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 09:40:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > 7090 of some sort. > > Of course I wretched. The loss of the PDP-8s is bad (I do not know > specific model numbers), but the others are a real shame. Known PDP-9s > number in the _low_ single digits, the 7090 perhaps less, but old > Burroughs equipment is probably extinct. > > In any case, this shows that the stuff was not _all_ scrapped years ago. This shows the need to get the word out to people that you collect old computers. You never know who's going to say "Oh really? My dad has this old mainframe in his garage that he's throwing out next week." Once word gets out that you collect old computers, people will be coming to you. It gets in their head and they start to find the opportunities for you through casual contacts with friends and relatives. This has happened to me on a few occassions; people I have explained my hobby to have come back to me saying they saw System X or heard of someone wanting to get rid of System Y. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 09:57:36 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: VersaWriter References: <33F00ABE.97BE4A5D@rain.org> <199708121440.HAA02818@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <33F079E0.B10BBAF9@rain.org> Frank McConnell wrote: > Marvin writes: > > No, it was not like a Koala pad or touch pad but more like a digitizing > > pad. The end of the arm looks like it has a magnifying lens on it. The > arm > > assembly looks a lot like a miniature version of a drafting machine. > > The arm has joints at its base and middle, right? And the base of the > arm is at the top center of the pad? > > I'd expect this thing to look like two game paddles to an Apple ][, > where the obligatory 150K linear pots are mounted at the joints so to > report their angles. That and software could get you a tolerable > digitizing tablet depending on how tolerant you are and the quality of > the pots. Great, your description sounds just like it! I can't recall where it came from and everytime I looked at it, I figured it HAD to be worth saving :). From william at ans.net Tue Aug 12 10:00:39 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708121500.AA11613@interlock.ans.net> > > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > > 7090 of some sort. > > *How* do we reach these people *before* things like this happen?!? Had I been to a hamfest a few weeks earlier, all of the goods would now be sitting in my storage locker (I seriously would have purchased the whole lot). I have a sign that either sits on my table, or hangs from my neck (yes, I look like an idiot, but it works), that has done wonders in the past. > (preferably without starting a mad rush from yuppie collector wannabes!) They will never go for the big stuff. Except for funrniture and cars, big things rarely get popular in the collecting (an subsequent investment) scenes. In any case, I am going to stay on top of this guy, even though he now deals with PC scrap. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 12 09:57:46 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: V7 Unix. WAS: Re: Success Story (fwd) Message-ID: I saw a thing on SCO's webpage about submitting a success story to win a prize. I decided it was time for some shameless plugging! Look what I got in return... He almost gets the point... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 10:23:52 -0400 From: Jim Sullivan To: dseagrav@tek-star.net Subject: Re: Success Story Well this came in through a strange interface.... At 05:20 PM 8/11/97 MDT, you wrote: >Name: Daniel Seagraves >Telephone: 692-5893 > >Customer's Environment: I have a PDP-11. I bet it would make for some >pretty decent advertising if you'd give me the >source to compile Unix on it... :) Well, since much of the early UNIX development was done on PDP11s, a version of UNIX could possilbe be found for it, but it's probably very old and out of date. Of note, my first job in the industry was with a company called Human Computing Resources (later HCR, later merged with SCO). HCR was one of the pioneers in the UNIX industry and was the provider of UNIX ports and layered implementations of UNIX across many platforms, including PDP11s. PDP11/Unity was one of our products. Of course, we don't sell it anymore and haven't sold it for over a decade. I seriously doubt that the current UNIX source code could easily port to the PDP11 environment. >The Economics: To be determined. Probably not worth it... >System Configuration: 2 systems: >PDP-11/44 Unknown RAM, RA81 475MB 12" harddisk > 32 terminal ports, FPP, misc. goodies. >PDP-11/23+ 1 meg RAM, KDF11-B CPU, No harddisk, 2 > RX02 8" Floppy drives. Well, loading UNIX, as it exists today, into 1M, may be impossible. Good Luck, but I don't think I can help you. ---- Jim Sullivan "Don't plant your bad days. They grow into bad SMB Segment Marketing weeks and then bad months and before you know it SCO - jim@sco.com you've got a bad year" - Tom Waits 416 216 4611 From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 12 09:59:56 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM ^^^^^^ Darn Darn Darn Darn Darn! I wanted one! And I know someone who could've used the CPU. From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Tue Aug 12 10:08:37 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:33:33 -0700 (PDT), Mr. Willing graced us with these words: > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks > > ago, he _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really > > old. Amongst the deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a > > Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM 7090 of some sort. > > I think; I may scream! I had the same sort of reaction when I heard the news through different channels. Needless to say I was less than pleased. However, Mr. Donzelli believes there to be hope in this; he states that the guy in question was willing to let him know about future systems like that. > *How* do we reach these people *before* things like this happen?!? That's the proverbial $64,000 (65,536?) dollar question. I guess we'll have to get to know the various scrap dealers (and especially "recyclers") in our areas. > (preferably without starting a mad rush from yuppie collector > wannabes!) This is another hot-button issue with me, having seen what the price of Altairs and the like is now. (No, the price is not justifiable - other than the machines are very "trendy" right now and speculators think they can make a killing on them.) However, given the size of things like PDP-9s and mainframes, I doubt that systems in that class are likely to fall victim to "speculative collection". Some of the smaller machines in the PDP-8 class might, but the PDP-8/I I just acquired filled half of the rear of my minivan (the other half had an Interdata Model 4 in it) - a bit too large for the average yuppie. You've got to be pretty sick to collect things the size of refrigerators (yes, I know, I fit the bill). Cheers. -- ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 12 11:15:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: V7 Unix. WAS: Re: Success Story (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 12, 97 09:57:46 am Message-ID: <9708121515.AA08919@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970812/cad2dcf3/attachment-0001.ksh From william at ans.net Tue Aug 12 10:17:34 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: <199708121517.AA13050@interlock.ans.net> > I had the same sort of reaction when I heard the news through > different channels. Needless to say I was less than pleased. However, > Mr. Donzelli believes there to be hope in this; he states that the > guy in question was willing to let him know about future systems > like that. Although he thinks I am a nutbar for wanting such things, he did tell me to bother him every so often. Occasionally, he probably does get a goodie or two. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 12 11:20:58 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> from "Carl R. Friend" at Aug 12, 97 11:08:37 am Message-ID: <9708121520.AA10071@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970812/be5f9b08/attachment-0001.ksh From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 12 16:20:25 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Superbrain Message-ID: <9707128714.AA871428386@compsci.powertech.co.uk> One machine I hear very little about nowadays - the Superbrain. It was one of the CPM machines that competed with the later PETs and things, and there used to be one that sat in the librarian's office where I work. One day I saw it being trundled towards the stores, and sure enough it appeared in the skip soon afterward. A little discussion with our procurement (= disposals) people, and the machine went home with me. It now sits on my shelves, waiting for someone to give it a boot disk. Anyone know where to get system disks for this machine? I have one friend who keeps promising to ask his neighbour (etc....) to get me one, but said neighbour never seems to be available. Can anyone else get me a disk? - I will pay all reasonable costs involved, of course. Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 11:01:27 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please References: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: <33F088D7.BD1D3D93@rain.org> Carl R. Friend wrote: > This is another hot-button issue with me, having seen what the > price of Altairs and the like is now. (No, the price is not > justifiable - other than the machines are very "trendy" right now > and speculators think they can make a killing on them.) However, I would disagree with your statement that the price is not justifiable; as we all know, the price of something is the price people are willing to pay. The more people that are looking for these classics, the more they will be saved from the unmentionable that happened to the PDP9, etc. For my part, I would rather such computers were desireable enough that they are worth more to a collector (cost wise) than salvage dealers; the marketplace will decide what they are really worth. And just to call a spade a spade, of course I would rather acquire these machines for free! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 12 12:14:00 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <33F088D7.BD1D3D93@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 12, 97 09:01:27 am Message-ID: <9708121614.AA10314@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970812/ba380473/attachment-0001.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 12 11:29:55 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Sickness (was: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <199708121508.AA01119@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: (on a little lighter note...) On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > ...the PDP-8/I I just acquired filled half of the rear of my > minivan (the other half had an Interdata Model 4 in it) - a bit > too large for the average yuppie. You've got to be pretty sick to > collect things the size of refrigerators (yes, I know, I fit the bill). Well, if size is any indication then I'm well into the 'sickness' too! (8/i, 8/e, 11/40, 11/70, 11/780, 11/750 among others) And quite happy to be there! Of course, then there is Paul Pierce who can quite easily embarrass most of us with a single piece of his collection (based on mass/volume) B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 12 11:41:12 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Superbrain Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF612C@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Hi Philip, Don Maslin has the list of Intertec stuff below in his collection of CP/M boot disks. He is kind enough to distribute these in the U.S. for his cost of $3/first disk and $1/each additional. Contact him at donm@cts.com and see what it would run for international shipping. Kai INTERTEC SUPERBRAIN & COMPUSTAR Name Format Description QD-BIOS4 DSDD System disk w/ experimental BIOS QD-UTILS DSDD System-specific utilities QD-ZCPR3 DSDD ZCPR BIOS and source QDHDBIOS DSDD Hard disk BIOSes SBRAIN32 SSDD SUPERBRAIN v 3.2 system disk VPU-COMM SSDD COMPUSTAR communications files VPU30ENH SSDD COMPUSTAR enhanced system disk VPU30NON SSDD COMPUSTAR non-enhanced system disk VPU30NRM SSDD COMPUSTAR non-enhanced system disk WATSTAR DSDD COMPUSTAR(?) network BIOS & files COMPUSTR TXT System description SBRNINFO TXT Boot-up information CMPSTR30 ZIP COMPUSTAR system files CSR-COMM SSDD Backup to VPU-COMM CSR30ENH SSDD Backup to VPU30ENH CSR30NON SSDD Backup to VPU30NON CSR30NRM SSDD Backup to VPU30NRM NEW.COM Short program to allow 'smarter' C'Star to run non enhanced operating system NORMAL.COM Restores screen to normal video > ---------- > From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 9:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Superbrain > > One machine I hear very little about nowadays - the Superbrain. > > It was one of the CPM machines that competed with the later PETs and > things, and there used to be one that sat in the librarian's office > where I work. One day I saw it being trundled towards the stores, and > > sure enough it appeared in the skip soon afterward. > > A little discussion with our procurement (= disposals) people, and the > > machine went home with me. It now sits on my shelves, waiting for > someone to give it a boot disk. > > Anyone know where to get system disks for this machine? I have one > friend who keeps promising to ask his neighbour (etc....) to get me > one, > but said neighbour never seems to be available. Can anyone else get > me > a disk? - I will pay all reasonable costs involved, of course. > > Philip. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > Bloedem Volke unverstaendlich treiben wir des Lebens Spiel. > Grade das, was unabwendlich fruchtet unserm Spott als Ziel. > Magst es Kinder-Rache nennen an des Daseins tiefem Ernst; > Wirst das Leben besser kennen, wenn du uns verstehen lernst. > > Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by > Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > > From kevan at motiv.co.uk Tue Aug 12 11:43:05 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (kevan@motiv.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Superbrain In-Reply-To: <9707128714.AA871428386@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708121643.RAA16584@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> In message <9707128714.AA871428386@compsci.powertech.co.uk>you write: > One machine I hear very little about nowadays - the Superbrain. Yep, I can remember drooling over them when I was a kid. Dual Z80's and 64K seemed like more than you could ever need. I now have one :-) > A little discussion with our procurement (= disposals) people, and the > machine went home with me. It now sits on my shelves, waiting for > someone to give it a boot disk. > > Anyone know where to get system disks for this machine? I have some. I also live in the UK (Cambridge) so shipping won't be much. I actually have a Superbrain Jr. I can't remember what density disks it has but I will check tonight. What model is yours. Did the company Intertec make any other machines? -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 12 11:46:41 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <33F088D7.BD1D3D93@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > Carl R. Friend wrote: > > > This is another hot-button issue with me, having seen what the > > price of Altairs and the like is now. (No, the price is not > > justifiable - other than the machines are very "trendy" right now > > and speculators think they can make a killing on them.) However, > > I would disagree with your statement that the price is not justifiable; as > we all know, the price of something is the price people are willing to pay. > The more people that are looking for these classics, the more they will be > saved from the unmentionable that happened to the PDP9, etc. For my part, I > would rather such computers were desireable enough that they are worth more > to a collector (cost wise) than salvage dealers; the marketplace will > decide what they are really worth. And just to call a spade a spade, of > course I would rather acquire these machines for free! The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are throwing these outlandish amounts of money around! The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would preserve both the machine and its history. Once the percieved value of a given item is (publically) driven up, either by speculators with too much money to spend or too many badly out of touch New York/L.A. Times articles, it can take a very long time for the prices to return to reality (if they ever do). And once an item is in the hands of one of these money oriented types, it may well languish in a vault(sic) until someone will pay the 'proper' prices, or when the novelty has worn off the item may still end up in the trash rather than being released for a more reasonable price. (don't laugh, I regularly deal with a *lot* of these types!) There has got to be a balance somewhere, I'm just not sure how to get there. Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From kevan at motiv.co.uk Tue Aug 12 11:54:07 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (kevan@motiv.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708121654.RAA16810@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> > This shows the need to get the word out to people that you collect old > computers. You never know who's going to say "Oh really? My dad has > this old mainframe in his garage that he's throwing out next week." Once > word gets out that you collect old computers, people will be coming to > you. I would agree with this. I have a web site and I get all sorts of offers from people trying to sell me machines. I just got this one from "tv43@digital.net" > I have two (somewhat rare) Apple III systems that miraculously, work. > Both in great condition (although one has a little tear in the > green-screen fabric). Also have an external 5.25 sloppy drive and misc. > software. > > I know what they cost new, but have no idea of their value now. I'd > like to sell one or both or will consider trading for a modern > portable. If interested, please contact me. I already have a III and they seem to be in the US so shipping is a problem. If anybody wants to follow up then feel free. I haven't been offered any 'big things' yet, but that is probably to do with not having any in my collection. Regards -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 12 12:17:34 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF6175@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> > The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into > consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are > throwing > these outlandish amounts of money around! > Do we have any evidence of outlandish prices actually being paid? There are lots of newspaper articles referencing ridiculous amounts for an Apple I like $10-$15K, but no facts to back them up. The only documented sale in existence is the one at the 1996 Computer Bowl charity auction for $22K, but that hardly counts. Does anyone have any facts about Altairs or IMSAIs going for thousands? > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > preserve both the machine and its history. > While there seem to be quite a lot of "Altair / IMSAI Wanted" ads on USENET, I've never actually communicated with anyone who was in this for the speculation. Does anyone know someone who is? My advice to anyone who actually wanted to speculate in old computers would be to buy a ton of Apple IIe/IIc's and Commodore 64's - like a warehouse full. They're common as dirt right now and go for garage sale prices. When all of those people whose first computer was one of those hit age 50 (in approximately 2015) they're going to have to buy one, and you'd be in fat city :) > Once the percieved value of a given item is (publically) driven up, > either > by speculators with too much money to spend or too many badly out of > touch > New York/L.A. Times articles, it can take a very long time for the > prices > to return to reality (if they ever do). > That's the truth brother. > And once an item is in the hands of one of these money oriented types, > it > may well languish in a vault(sic) until someone will pay the 'proper' > prices, or when the novelty has worn off the item may still end up in > the > trash rather than being released for a more reasonable price. (don't > laugh, I regularly deal with a *lot* of these types!) > Really?!? Egads. > There has got to be a balance somewhere, I'm just not sure how to get > there. > > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? > Geez, I found homes for a couple of nice Osbornes at your Tigard swap meet for $15-$20 apiece. What was I thinking! :) Kai From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 12 18:35:01 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Superbrain Message-ID: <9707128714.AA871436486@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I have some. I also live in the UK (Cambridge) so shipping won't be > much. I actually have a Superbrain Jr. I can't remember what density > disks it has but I will check tonight. What model is yours. Excellent. Thank you very much. I too shall check such things tonight - if I can (I have no documentation at all) > Did the company Intertec make any other machines? According to Kai Kaltenbach's recent post, it seems they made something called a Compustar. The name doesn't ring any bells for me, however. If you're in Cambridge, you ought to belong to the Cambridge University Computer Preservation Society. I think Richard Davies (rjd27@cam.ac.uk) will be able to tell you more. I shall be at CUCPS next term, on 4th November, hopefully demonstrating the Tektronix 4052, if you're interested. Philip. From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 12 12:42:44 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF6175@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 12, 97 10:17:34 am Message-ID: <199708121742.KAA29132@fraser> I have quite a few old radios from the 1920s and 30s, and the market has recently been subjected to the same kind of wild increases, due to the entrance of speculators into the field. Speculators don't care about old radios, they just think that they can make a ton of money on them. Most of the hype and hoarding has been with bakelite radios from the late 40s and 50s, but the resultant high prices (easily with $1000 or $2000 minimum) have driven up the prices of the really nice old sets from the 20s and 30s too. This is especially visible in antique stores and second hand shops where even run of the mill wooden console and tabletop radios can be priced at $250-$300. Prior to this escalation, prices would be $50 or so for the same sets. For those collectors like myself who simply like old radios for their own sake, and for their historic and aesthetic appeal, these unbelievable prices have made acquisition of old sets much more difficult. I am relatively new to old computers (although I've been into computing since 1973) and it looks like the speculators are causing the same sort of trouble for those already in the field. I like old machines simply because they're neat; it's fun to have them and keep them running. It preserves a bit of history. What really bugs me about these people is that, as others have said, they have no interest in the machines other than their earning potential. This is sad as it does nothing to preserve the sense of history that goes along with old hardware and software. But on the positive side, I suppose, at least the machines are being saved from the crusher. Maybe they will reemerge into the market some day at a reasonable price. Let's hope that they don't sit for 20 years and then get scrapped. As well, all this interest in micros may tend to make old minis and such more affordable, or at least not drive up their prices too much. Those speculating seem to be interested only in "personal" machines. Computing, it seems, started with the Apple or the IBM PC. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 12 12:57:24 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:46 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D088D8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> > From: Kevin McQuiggin > Most of the hype and hoarding has been with bakelite radios from the > late > 40s and 50s > Occam's Razor says it's more likely that the baby boomers who owned or wanted to own such radios in the 40s and 50s are now of the age where they have a lot of nostalgia and a good deal of money to spend. That doesn't mean that speculators are driving up prices. Kai From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 12 14:44:04 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <199708121742.KAA29132@fraser> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Aug 12, 97 10:42:44 am Message-ID: <199708121944.PAA01373@hiway1.exit109.com> > > I have quite a few old radios from the 1920s and 30s, and the market has > recently been subjected to the same kind of wild increases, due to the > entrance of speculators into the field. Speculators don't care about old > radios, they just think that they can make a ton of money on them. > > Most of the hype and hoarding has been with bakelite radios from the late > 40s and 50s, but the > resultant high prices (easily with $1000 or $2000 minimum) have driven up > the prices of the really nice old sets from the 20s and 30s too. My understanding of the interest in bakelite sets is that it is similar to why there is more interest in micros rather than minis from a computer collector standpoint- space. An "all-american 5" bakelite set can sit on a shelf in a small apartment. Compare that with the floor spare required for a nice console or even a wooden table radio. Recent discussions aside, there is the same perception in the computer collecting field, that micro means small. (God bless those who have the space for multiple 19" racks. <<>> From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 15:40:51 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9708121614.AA10314@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Unfortunately, the high demand for common "trendy" machines (i.e. IMSAI's, > Altairs, whatever) often displaces the preservation of machines which > are much rarer, which are far more important historically, and which > present far greater difficulties to preserve, maintain, and use. Not as long as there are people like us to preserve the balance of systems. > For example, any average Joe could assemble a perfect IMSAI-lookalike > using still commercially available parts. The IMSAI chassis is certainly > the single most common S-100 box ever made. So why are IMSAI's regarded > as so valuable, while all the S-100 boards made by enterprising guys in their > garage in small quantities are undesirable? I really don't know. But I > do know that the guys making S-100 boards in their garages were the true movers > and shakers of leading technology for most of a decade. In time, if this hobby becomes another speculator's attraction, these boards will start to take on monetary value. As of now, the only real value would be to those who need these boards to make a working system. Other than that, most of us are just collecting them for the preservational value, ie. the value inherent in preserving any bit of history so that we may better understand our past when it is long forgotten. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 15:48:25 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205CF6175@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Do we have any evidence of outlandish prices actually being paid? > There are lots of newspaper articles referencing ridiculous amounts for > an Apple I like $10-$15K, but no facts to back them up. The only > documented sale in existence is the one at the 1996 Computer Bowl > charity auction for $22K, but that hardly counts. I won't say who :) but I know of someone who paid $1,400 for an Altair 8800. > Does anyone have any facts about Altairs or IMSAIs going for thousands? Shit, if someone knows someone who wants to pay a thousand or so for these then I have a mint in my garage. > While there seem to be quite a lot of "Altair / IMSAI Wanted" ads on > USENET, I've never actually communicated with anyone who was in this for > the speculation. Does anyone know someone who is? I would imagine these are the people who had one way back in the 70s and want to relieve their former glory... > My advice to anyone who actually wanted to speculate in old computers > would be to buy a ton of Apple IIe/IIc's and Commodore 64's - like a > warehouse full. They're common as dirt right now and go for garage sale > prices. When all of those people whose first computer was one of those > hit age 50 (in approximately 2015) they're going to have to buy one, and > you'd be in fat city :) ...just like the people Kai mentions above who will want to re-live the days of playing with their C64 or Apples. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dlw at neosoft.com Tue Aug 12 17:12:43 1997 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: (Fwd) HELP Message-ID: <199708122112.QAA29424@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> I received this today, can anyone here help him out? If so, send him an email. Thanks. ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Bill Creager" To: Subject: HELP Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 15:44:50 -0400 Found your wanted ad for Cromemco's. I have a need for a programmer with a Crememco and the know how to program a EPROM chip for a Hand Held data terminal (MSI 85)..... any help or leads would be greatly appreciated. Bill Creager CREAGERB@ix.netcom.com ---------------------------------------------------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 12 16:48:44 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please References: Message-ID: <33F0DA3C.78BF23E6@rain.org> James Willing wrote: > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > > > saved from the unmentionable that happened to the PDP9, etc. For my > part, I > > would rather such computers were desireable enough that they are worth > more > > to a collector (cost wise) than salvage dealers; the marketplace will > > decide what they are really worth. And just to call a spade a spade, of > > > course I would rather acquire these machines for free! > > The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into > consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are throwing > these outlandish amounts of money around! > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > preserve both the machine and its history. I think that there will always be people around who don't have the "purest" motives for doing anything, and collecting computers is no exception. Antique dealers could be considered collectors only in it for the money, BUT without that force being present, a lot more collectibles would be in that great landfill in the sky. > Once the percieved value of a given item is (publically) driven up, either > > by speculators with too much money to spend or too many badly out of touch > > New York/L.A. Times articles, it can take a very long time for the prices > to return to reality (if they ever do). > > And once an item is in the hands of one of these money oriented types, it > may well languish in a vault(sic) until someone will pay the 'proper' > prices, or when the novelty has worn off the item may still end up in the > trash rather than being released for a more reasonable price. (don't > laugh, I regularly deal with a *lot* of these types!) > There has got to be a balance somewhere, I'm just not sure how to get > there. I think art would also fall in the catagory of how much is it *really* worth. Who was that guy a number of centurys ago, Michael something or other, who did some artsy things that many people consider worth a lot of money now? Do you think that his paintings, etc. would have stayed around if some significant value had not been placed on them? Another thing to think about is the opportunity that the speculators provide. I don't recall the number of museums spread around the world, but it is at least a dozen or two :). Right now, I am in the learning stages of finding out what it takes to run a museum and donations seem to be a biggie. If a non-profit status museum is available, I can't imagine any speculator trashing something instead of taking a tax rightoff. And yes, this type of stuff WILL make it harder for people to collect computers. HOWEVER, we are still at the stage where the perceived value of most older computers is not very high thus making it relatively easy for anyone who has the desire to get a fairly complete selection of computers relatively inexpensively. And since we seem to be some of the few concerned with the preservation of old computers and their history, that leaves us in a rather responsible position and I think the future will look back kindly at our efforts! > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? No, but I do have a couple I would sell for $500 US :)! From rcini at msn.com Tue Aug 12 18:11:47 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Update on Altair scans Message-ID: Hello, all: I got a message from my friend with the Altair scans (list previously posted here). On Monday, he mailed me a Zip disk filled with scans. It really makes me wonder if this guy has a job! Actually, he must work for a publishing house or something, somewhere where he has access to high-volume scanners. Anyway, when I get this, I'll put together a disk/tape and Fedex it to Bill Whitson {Bill: I need your physical address and telephone#} and have him post it to the ftp site. More to come... ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Aug 12 21:02:55 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Yeek! I 'Bruced' him!! Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970812190403.3127cd5a@mail.crl.com> At 06:53 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck >>going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce >>but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in Or perhaps being "Whit"led (it was Bill Whitson?) could mean willing to go to any length (including getting your car hit and breaking bones) in order to rescue classic computer stuff? 8^) Hope he gets well soon! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From danjo at xnet.com Tue Aug 12 22:00:57 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Yeek! I 'Bruced' him!! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970812190403.3127cd5a@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Uncle Roger wrote: > At 06:53 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: > >>Bruce, and everyone else. I just heard from Bill. He got in a car wreck > >>going over to Bruce's place to pick some stuff up. Not knocking ya Bruce > >>but from now on we can call a wreck - getting Bruced 8-) He is OK but in > > Or perhaps being "Whit"led (it was Bill Whitson?) could mean willing to go > to any length (including getting your car hit and breaking bones) in order > to rescue classic computer stuff? 8^) > > Hope he gets well soon! I CAN'T HELP IT!!!! Or perhaps being "Whit"less 8-) I'M SORRY - Bill, Bruce - everyone. BC From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 12 22:26:28 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <33F0DA3C.78BF23E6@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > And yes, this type of stuff WILL make it harder for people to collect > computers. HOWEVER, we are still at the stage where the perceived value of > most older computers is not very high thus making it relatively easy for > anyone who has the desire to get a fairly complete selection of computers > relatively inexpensively. And since we seem to be some of the few concerned > with the preservation of old computers and their history, that leaves us in > a rather responsible position and I think the future will look back kindly > at our efforts! I think it is up to us to some extent to not give in to high prices demanded by people selling their old computers. As I've indicated in previous messages, I ALWAYS haggle a deal, no matter how mundane. In this way I serve two useful purposes: 1) I keep people from trying to command high prices for old computers, 2) I conserve my money so that I am able to buy up as many computers as possible. The other day I haggled over a quarter for god's sake! (Relative to the total cost of what I was buying it was 25%, but still, it was just a damn quarter! In the end somebody came along and gave the seller a quarter for me! Ok, call me cheap, but sometimes I just get caught up in the fever.) So anyway, ALWAYS negotiate with the seller. In the end, everyone wins, especially YOU! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Wed Aug 13 00:50:31 1997 From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Unix on PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <33F1216E.7C4F3ABB@halcyon.com> from Dave Jenner at "Aug 12, 97 07:52:30 pm" Message-ID: <199708130550.PAA06873@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> I seem to have received an email which has bounced thru a few people. I'll try to give attributions where possible. Dave Jenner: > Is this the same SCO that is receiving the PDP-11 Unix petition? > Heaven help us! Unknown: > I saw a thing on SCO's webpage about submitting a success story to win a > prize. I decided it was time for some shameless plugging! > Look what I got in return... He almost gets the point... Daniel Seagraves: > > > >I have a PDP-11. I bet it would make for some > >pretty decent advertising if you'd give me the > >source to compile Unix on it... :) Jim Sullivan: > Well, since much of the early UNIX development was done on PDP11s, a version > of UNIX could possilbe be found for it, but it's probably very old and > out of date. Of note, my first job in the industry was with a company > called Human Computing Resources (later HCR, later merged with SCO). > HCR was one of the pioneers in the UNIX industry and was the provider of > UNIX ports and layered implementations of UNIX across many platforms, > including PDP11s. PDP11/Unity was one of our products. Of course, we > don't sell it anymore and haven't sold it for over a decade. The Answer ---------- The answer for Daniel Seagraves is to fill in the petition asking SCO to sell the source code for these old UNIXes. SCO does hold the legal rights to these old systems. We're hoping that they will be encouraged by the petition, and help people like Daniel out. The petition is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ and choose the top hyperlink. The petition has been formally presented to SCO, and we're waiting on an answer back from them. The signs seem good, though! Cheers, Warren From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 13 10:48:14 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > > preserve both the machine and its history. > > I think that there will always be people around who don't have the "purest" > motives for doing anything, and collecting computers is no exception. > Antique dealers could be considered collectors only in it for the money, BUT > without that force being present, a lot more collectibles would be in that > great landfill in the sky. Dig the mixed metaphor! Seriously though, there are two processes at work here. One is that those who grew up with such machines have got the nostalgia bug. This starts prices rising, which in turn attracts speculators. The latter fuel the second process - articles get published about how fast the market is growing, etc. One hopes that in a few years time, they will become unfashionable once again, and we will see a return to the situation when these machines first became unfashionable - they crop up at car boot sales, etc., for not much money. > Another thing to think about is the opportunity that the speculators > provide. I don't recall the number of museums spread around the world, but > it is at least a dozen or two :). Right now, I am in the learning stages of > finding out what it takes to run a museum and donations seem to be a > biggie. If a non-profit status museum is available, I can't imagine any > speculator trashing something instead of taking a tax rightoff. Do keep us posted! There are plenty of us on this list who dream of converting our private collections into musea when we retire - or before! - who would welcome any info on the subject. > And yes, this type of stuff WILL make it harder for people to collect > computers. HOWEVER, we are still at the stage where the perceived value of > most older computers is not very high thus making it relatively easy for > anyone who has the desire to get a fairly complete selection of computers > relatively inexpensively. And since we seem to be some of the few concerned > with the preservation of old computers and their history, that leaves us in > a rather responsible position and I think the future will look back kindly > at our efforts! And however much we dislike the price spirals that occur, we must remember that unless people know that collectors want these machines, they'll put them in the dustbin. That is one reason why, unlike Sam, I do not often haggle. If people know that the Philips G7000 videopac computer that they priced at four pounds at the car boot sale will get snapped up for that amount of money, and tell people at work etc., others will think twice about throwing out the PDP8 or whatever. If, however, they price it at L4 and can't even get that for it, they will think that computers are not collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It has an 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? No, but I'd rather pay $500 for an Osborne than see the last remaining one disinegrate between the teeth of a rubbish crusher like that PDP9. From kevan at motiv.co.uk Wed Aug 13 05:04:38 1997 From: kevan at motiv.co.uk (kevan@motiv.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 (was Re: Re[2]: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708131004.LAA26726@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Philip wrote: > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It has an > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox Odessey^2 Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few duplicates. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 13 11:20:12 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707138714.AA871496786@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It has an > > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox Odessey^2 > > Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few duplicates. Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing until I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't possess a television. [For those of you not in the UK, here one requires a licence to operate "Television Receiving Apparatus", which I think includes any TV with a UHF tuner, but not a monitor. The licence fee is (without looking up either the current fee or the exchange rate) about $120 a year, and I am not prepared to pay this. So I don't have a TV - and seldom miss it.] Philip. From kuefel at sky.net Wed Aug 13 07:49:39 1997 From: kuefel at sky.net (Mark W Kuefel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Sickness (was: A moment of silence, please) References: Message-ID: <33F1AD63.14BA@sky.net> James Willing wrote: > > (on a little lighter note...) > > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > > > ...the PDP-8/I I just acquired filled half of the rear of my > > minivan (the other half had an Interdata Model 4 in it) - a bit > > too large for the average yuppie. You've got to be pretty sick to > > collect things the size of refrigerators (yes, I know, I fit the bill). > > Well, if size is any indication then I'm well into the 'sickness' too! > (8/i, 8/e, 11/40, 11/70, 11/780, 11/750 among others) And quite happy to > be there! > sick, sick, sick, sick, sick... But wait! > The problem I see with this view, is that it does not fully take into > consideration the class/capabilities/intent of "people" who are throwing > these outlandish amounts of money around! > even sicker... > Are *you* prepared to pay $500US for an Osborne or a TI99-4a ??? > Not quite THAT sick... > I ALWAYS haggle a deal, no matter how mundane. In > this way I serve two useful purposes: 1) I keep people from trying to > command high prices for old computers, 2) I conserve my money so that I > am able to buy up as many computers as possible. The other day I haggled > over a quarter for god's sake! (Relative to the total cost of what I was > buying it was 25%, but still, it was just a damn quarter! In the end > somebody came along and gave the seller a quarter for me! Ok, call me > cheap, but sometimes I just get caught up in the fever.) > > So anyway, ALWAYS negotiate with the seller. In the end, everyone wins, > especially YOU! > > Sam You're a tough negotiator, Sam. I can see there's nothing to be gained butting heads with you except maybe a sore noggin. I'll go ahead and eat 25% (I've had worse things in my mouth). The TI's yours for $375. > In time, if this hobby becomes another speculator's attraction, these > boards will start to take on monetary value. As of now, the only real > value would be to those who need these boards to make a working system. > Other than that, most of us are just collecting them for the > preservational value, ie. the value inherent in preserving any bit of > history so that we may better understand our past when it is long forgotten. > > Sam delusional... No, I shouldn't say that as it would be unwise to spectulate on the motivations of a man known to fight a crowd of panhandlers and street drunks over a dropped quarter. Knowing how these things get exaggerated over the web, I discounted the rumors about you killing two of them in the process. (You didn't really, did you?) >James Willing observed: > The 'speculators' who are out to try to make a quick buck on these > machines while having no regard for their preservation or history will > only make life much more difficult (and expensive) for those who would > preserve both the machine and its history. highly romanticized... May I look through your rose colored glasses for a spell? (assuming you have a sense of humor and lack a history of violence ;-) Gee I thought I was clear on my motivations for "collecting" all these ______________ (fill in the blank, start with "computers"). An obsessive/ compulsive hoarding neurosis with anal retentive overtones. "Can you believe anyone would acutally throw one of these (display nonfuctional, partially disassembled "treasure" to all) babies in the TRASH! Whoa! This must be my LUCKY DAY!" I like to think I've expanded on the mere "fixation" aspect with elaborate regressive fantasies to enhance my little trips down memory lane. "A Micro VAX? I "always" wanted a Micro VAX. And it's FREE? I want one. I want two. I GOTTA have it!. And I really do want one. God only knows what I would do with it. Must have read a few too many DEC sales promos on the overnights I spent camping out in the machine room with Field Service while they sacrificed chickens over the 2060. I knew I should have grabbed the 11/750 when my old boss offered it. Would have had PLENTY of room if my (ex)wife had the imaginination to see past "weird" and appreciate the bohemian uniqness and "style" exhibited by sleeping on a matress atop the system box and drive units! Yes, it's definitely a "toy" thing with me. Will one of you historians please note that in the record? And now for the POINT. I'll bet you didn't think I had one, did you? > Any such speculators are complete fools. Believe me, I've met > many of them! Most of them don't know a serial console from a > memory-mapped video display! > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) I think we can all agree that lamers like these don't DESERVE fine examples of classic computers as the historical value these units is just wasted on such cretans. They probably don't know how to play with the damn thing either. Though you may disagree with the morality involved, I hope you can see why I'm drawn to give myself up to a higher calling and become: Mark W Kuefel Classic Computer Thief for Hire Discrection Assured Discount Rates for Classic Computer List Members Like Robin Hood, takes from the lame, gives to the insane. > Of course, then there is Paul Pierce who can quite easily embarrass most > of us with a single piece of his collection (based on mass/volume) > > -jim Well, we'll see after I've had the chance to make a few midnight "visits" to a machine room or two ;-) Mark W Kuefel kuefel@sky.net and THE COLISEUM SLAVE (Netwrecker II) Anyone "ordering" minis or mainframes must select from a "display" site that has a loading dock and forklift available. (I've never seen a picture of Robin Hood wearing a hernia belt, have you?) From jim at sco.COM Wed Aug 13 07:46:18 1997 From: jim at sco.COM (Jim Sullivan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Unix on PDP-11 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970813083858.007cc480@sales.sco.com> Well, this just gets weirder and weirder. From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 13 14:42:41 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <009B8B7F.9DE62591.73@siva.bris.ac.uk> [G7000] > >Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing until >I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't >possess a television. Presumably if it has a UHF output it also has an internal modulator. Can't you just tap off composite video from the input to that? What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for example...) > >Philip. -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Wed Aug 13 15:04:56 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707138715.AA871510286@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Presumably if it has a UHF output it also has an internal modulator. Can't you > just tap off composite video from the input to that? It does indeed, and on a separate board, too! Someday I must get a decent TV standard monitor - probably the Barco I sold to my brother for use as a telly - but I ought to have a composite one as well (Barco is RGB, of course). At present the monitor I have requires Video + Composite Sync - or it can free-run and generate sync for a TV camera. > What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side > custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips Prestel > terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for example...) I can't remember offhand, except that there are quite a lot of them. I'll have another look tonight. There seem to be two large rectangular metal cans - one with its own PCB (probably the UHF modulator) and one on the motherbaord (VHF for US?) Philip. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 13 09:08:55 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Unix on PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <199708130550.PAA06873@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-ID: > The answer for Daniel Seagraves is to fill in the petition asking SCO to > sell the source code for these old UNIXes. SCO does hold the legal rights > to these old systems. We're hoping that they will be encouraged by the > petition, and help people like Daniel out. > Done and done. I did that a month ago. :) From Eros at mail.dec.com Wed Aug 13 09:32:14 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: High up on the list of wants for my collection is an IBM 5100. I passed on one several years ago at a Goodwill (arrrgh!), but I'd sure like to track one down now. Any ideas? -- Tony Eros proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer Collection From marvin at rain.org Wed Aug 13 10:22:05 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please References: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <33F1D11D.89D0E490@rain.org> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > Another thing to think about is the opportunity that the speculators > > provide. I don't recall the number of museums spread around the world, > but > > it is at least a dozen or two :). Right now, I am in the learning > stages of > > finding out what it takes to run a museum and donations seem to be a > > biggie. If a non-profit status museum is available, I can't imagine any > > > speculator trashing something instead of taking a tax rightoff. > > Do keep us posted! There are plenty of us on this list who dream of > converting our private collections into musea when we retire - or > before! - who would welcome any info on the subject. Over the past couple of months since I found out about this listserver, I have been talking to a number of people about the feasibility of opening a computer museum here in Santa Barbara. Lots of reasons: 1) I live here :), 2) quite a bit of technology has been developed here primarily due to the university, Raytheon, Delco Electronics, and Santa Barbara Research Center, 3) there are a number of people here with money that might well be willing to help fund such a venture, and 4) quite a bit of early microcomputer stuff took place here and most of the people are still around. We had a meeting of the Classic Computer Club last night (*small* turnout - only four people) and discussed some of this. One of the guys is a hardware wiz who is *really* familar with the Kapro computers, another guy was an early Kaypro dealer here in town, and the other guy actually worked on the Illiac II computer at (I think) the University of Illinois and still has some of the documentation. Now that there is a concensus that we will do it, I will be checking today to see if we can get space donated at the September computer show here in Santa Barbara. Gotta build awareness! Apparently we will also be giving a program to the local PC Users Group (100 people or so at the meetings) on the Classic Computers. I also *really* like the effort Sam and others are putting into the Vintage Computer Faire since it will also build awareness. Another thing that seems to be helping to build awareness are the web page museums that people like Jim, Carl, Kevan and a host of others have where they display information and pictures of these older computers. I have a list of 50+ web pages dealing with the older "obsolete" computers and I have seen another 50 or so. > And however much we dislike the price spirals that occur, we must > remember that unless people know that collectors want these machines, > they'll put them in the dustbin. So true! From william at ans.net Wed Aug 13 10:43:33 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9707138714.AA871494986@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708131543.AA07273@interlock.ans.net> > No, but I'd rather pay $500 for an Osborne than see the last remaining > one disinegrate between the teeth of a rubbish crusher like that PDP9. By the way, that was TWO PDP-9s that died recently. One of these day I ought to report something *good*. William Donzelli william@ans.net From dastar at crl.com Wed Aug 13 10:38:31 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Sickness (was: A moment of silence, please) In-Reply-To: <33F1AD63.14BA@sky.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Mark W Kuefel wrote: > May I look through your rose colored glasses for a spell? (assuming you > have a sense of humor and lack a history of violence ;-) > Gee I thought I was clear on my motivations for "collecting" all these > ______________ (fill in the blank, start with "computers"). An > obsessive/ > compulsive hoarding neurosis with anal retentive overtones. "Can you > believe anyone would acutally throw one of these (display nonfuctional, > partially disassembled "treasure" to all) babies in the TRASH! Whoa! > This must be my LUCKY DAY!" I like to think I've expanded on the mere > "fixation" aspect with elaborate regressive fantasies to enhance my > little > trips down memory lane. "A Micro VAX? I "always" wanted a Micro VAX. > And it's FREE? I want one. I want two. I GOTTA have it!. > And I really do want one. God only knows what I would do with it. > Must have read a few too many DEC sales promos on the overnights I spent > camping out in the machine room with Field Service while they sacrificed > chickens over the 2060. I knew I should have grabbed the 11/750 when my > old boss offered it. Would have had PLENTY of room if my (ex)wife > had the imaginination to see past "weird" and appreciate the bohemian > uniqness and "style" exhibited by sleeping on a matress atop the system > box and drive units! > > Yes, it's definitely a "toy" thing with me. Will one of you historians > please note that in the record? I think you hit this squarely on the head, with a sledgehammer no doubt. Ok, I admit, there is no rhyme or reason to this, no grand scheme of preservation. I just want these old systems. I just assign noble reasons to mask my insanity. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Aug 13 11:16:58 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Atari 850 Interface Message-ID: <199708131613.LAA25414@challenge.sunflower.com> Welp! I finally got one. Case got a little damaged in shipping,but it looks like it will still work. Is there anyone out there that still uses the 8bit Atari's that can send me a copy of a Term program on an Atari 8bit format disk so I can start downloading stuff to my 8bit atari's? From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 13 11:27:11 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: PDP-9 and 7 (DEC 18 bit machines....) Message-ID: <199708131627.AA29854@world.std.com> Despite have seen a few and being even an EX-digit I've never played with the PDP-9. Is any there that can describe the archecture and instruction set? Mostly curiosity here. Allison From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Wed Aug 13 11:37:22 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: PDP-9 and 7 (DEC 18 bit machines....) Message-ID: <199708131637.AA04689@maddog.swec.com> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 12:27:11 -0400, allisonp@world.std.com mentioned: > Despite have seen a few and being even an EX-digit I've never played > with the PDP-9. Is any there that can describe the archecture and > instruction set? Mostly curiosity here. I think I've got a processor handbook for the -9 at home; it's either that or the -15 (which was an up-rated successor to the -9). I'll dig it out and post a few bits when I get home. (If I'm sober enough. ) I seem to remember my first impression was "bizarre machine"... ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Aug 13 11:44:39 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970813094547.4f5ff278@mail.crl.com> At 09:14 AM 8/12/97 -0800, you wrote: >Unfortunately, the high demand for common "trendy" machines (i.e. IMSAI's, >Altairs, whatever) often displaces the preservation of machines which >are much rarer, which are far more important historically, and which >present far greater difficulties to preserve, maintain, and use. Keep in mind that Value <> importance/significance/etc. Value represents a combination of many variables, including visibility, size, trendiness, etc. There are plenty of relatively valueless items running around the world that are incredibly significant, while a whole lot of insignificant things command high prices on the open market. If I wanted to invest in classic computers, it would be IMSAI's, Osbornes, and Apple I's. But I want to collect them, so I've got an Epson, an NEC, a m100, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Aug 13 11:44:44 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Prices/speculation (RE: A moment of silence, please) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970813094550.493f1914@mail.crl.com> At 10:17 AM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >buy a ton of Apple IIe/IIc's and Commodore 64's - like a warehouse full. [...] >hit age 50 (in approximately 2015) they're going to have to buy one, and At which point you would be deeper in debt than the US Gov. from all the storage costs... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 13 18:26:35 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <009B8B9E.E53C419B.395@siva.bris.ac.uk> >> Presumably if it has a UHF output it also has an internal modulator. Can't you >> just tap off composite video from the input to that? > >It does indeed, and on a separate board, too! Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore. > >Someday I must get a decent TV standard monitor - probably the Barco I >sold to my brother for use as a telly - but I ought to have a composite Err... You do not use a Barco monitor as a TV. It's far too nice for that. I happen to have one, you see. >one as well (Barco is RGB, of course). At present the monitor I have Not of course. There were Barco's with built-in PAL, SECAM or NTSC decoders acording to the user manual for mine. (Barco User manual = 1/2 page explaining the controls and about 40 pages telling you how to set it up, schematics, waveforms, test points, etc). >requires Video + Composite Sync - or it can free-run and generate sync >for a TV camera. > >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips Prestel >> terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for example...) > >I can't remember offhand, except that there are quite a lot of them. >I'll have another look tonight. Please e-mail me a list when you get a chance and I'll see what I can find out about them. > >There seem to be two large rectangular metal cans - one with its own PCB >(probably the UHF modulator) and one on the motherbaord (VHF for US?) Possible VHF for europe. There are 625 line transmissions on Bands 1 and 3 according to some info I have. > >Philip. -tony From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 13 13:07:28 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 Message-ID: <33f1f76b.156712163@smtp.ix.netcom.com> I met someone who had worked on the Olivetti M20 many years ago and could possibly still get a hold of some of these. The M20 is a Z8001 based machine with bitmapped graphics and can run PCOS (its own OS) or CP/M 8000 Is anyone else interested? Ben From FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com Wed Aug 13 15:27:00 1997 From: FAIAZMC at hsd.utc.com (Faiaz, Michael C. HSD) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Atari 850 Interface Message-ID: I may have one. Can you be more specific, as to which term program you need? Mike ---------- From: Bill Girnius To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Atari 850 Interface Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 12:16PM Welp! I finally got one. Case got a little damaged in shipping,but it looks like it will still work. Is there anyone out there that still uses the 8bit Atari's that can send me a copy of a Term program on an Atari 8bit format disk so I can start downloading stuff to my 8bit atari's? From thedm at sunflower.com Wed Aug 13 15:44:38 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Atari 850 Interface Message-ID: <199708132041.PAA23154@challenge.sunflower.com> Anything that will do downloads with Zmodem, Ymodem or Xmodem I just need a start. I think the most popular is called BOBTERM ---------- > From: Faiaz, Michael C. HSD > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: Atari 850 Interface > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 3:27 PM > > I may have one. Can you be more specific, as to which term program you > need? > Mike > > ---------- > From: Bill Girnius > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Atari 850 Interface > Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 12:16PM > > > Welp! I finally got one. Case got a little damaged in shipping,but it > looks > like it will still work. Is there anyone out there that still uses the > 8bit Atari's that can send me a copy of a Term program on an Atari 8bit > format disk so I can start downloading stuff to my 8bit atari's? From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Aug 13 16:32:09 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D4ACCF@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I. Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for another couple of weeks. I am aware of a gentleman who may be willing to part with a 5110 + dual 8" external drives + printer, but he wants a "very generous offer" for it and the shipping alone would be a killer since the total weight is about 200 lbs (he's in PA). BTW, do you have a web page for your collection? Kai > ---------- > From: Anthony Eros > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 7:32 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: IBM 5100 > > High up on the list of wants for my collection is an IBM 5100. I > passed on > one several years ago at a Goodwill (arrrgh!), but I'd sure like to > track one > down now. > > Any ideas? > > -- Tony Eros > proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer > Collection > From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 13 20:00:52 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8? Message-ID: <199708140100.AA25698@world.std.com> Just a test of the *Broadcast* facility. Trying to put up a Calendar and Scheduling program on the web site 8-) -------------------------------------------------- Performed by Auto-Remind : another fine product of The Software Forge and danjo@xnet.com -------------------------------------------------- From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 13 23:40:01 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8? In-Reply-To: <199708140100.AA25698@world.std.com> References: <199708140100.AA25698@world.std.com> Message-ID: <33f28b9a.279710@smtp.ix.netcom.com> On Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:00:52 -0400, Allison wrote: % % This announcement is aimed to inform the members of the classiccmp community of the plans for the upcoming Vintage Computer Festival and is not intended for general distribution. Vintage Computer Festival The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is an event held to celebrate computers and their history. Due to the incredible pace of computing technology, computers at least ten years and older are the main focus of this event. Meet other collectors to trade tips, stories and even computers, hear talks by notable computer industry figures, attend workshops geared towards the vintage computer collector, visit the on-site interactive vintage computer museum. Two days of celebrating the science and technology of our diverse computer heritage! Event Highlights Vintage Pioneer (Featured Speaker) TBA - Candidates include Steve Wozniak (Inventor and co-founder of Apple Computer), Lee Felsenstein (Inventor of the SOL-20 Computer), Chris Espinosa (Legendary Programmer, Apple Computer). Guest Speakers TBA - Candidates include Jodelle French (Curator, Intel Museum), Robert X. Cringely (Author of _Accidental Empires_, Producer of _Triumph of the Nerds_ as seen on PBS), Steven Levy (Author of _Hackers_), Paul Fridell (Designer of IBM 5120), Kip Crosby (President of Computer History Association of California) Vintage Computer Spotlight Each year a classic computer is chosen to be featured in the Vintage Computer Spotlight. This year, being the 20th anniversary of the Apple ][, what else but the Apple ][ will be featured. What's more, each year's Vintage Computer Spotlight subject will be the grand-prize of the end-of-show drawing. All attendees will be automatically entered to win this year's Spotlight computer, an original Apple ][ with Integer BASIC ROMS! Workshops A panel of vintage computer collectors will give talks on topics relating to the hobby of classic computer collecting. Discussions will include: Restoration and preservation of old computers - external and internal cleaning tips and techniques; basic electronic repair tips; storage procedures for the long haul Software preservation with a focus on storage tips and techniques for the long haul Computer Collecting 101 - basic computing skills including operation, disk formats, serial communcations basics, how to recognize computers and their peripherals Vintage Computer Museum A hands-on, interactive museum featuring many examples of classic computing machinery through the years. The exhibit is composed of artifacts on loan from the collections of organizations and individuals, and will span the course of decades from the 1950s to the 1980s. Vending A swap-meet style vending area where attendees can shop for old, in some cases antique computers, peripherals, documentation and software. No IBM clones here, just good old classic computers. Where and When TBA - Tentative dates: October 18-19, 1997 Venue TBA - Tri-Valley Area, East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area) Admission - TBD Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Aug 14 08:53:04 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Olivetti M20 Message-ID: <9707148715.AA871574367@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I met someone who had worked on the Olivetti M20 many years ago and > could possibly still get a hold of some of these. > > The M20 is a Z8001 based machine with bitmapped graphics and can run > PCOS (its own OS) or CP/M 8000 > > Is anyone else interested? Which side of the Atlantic is it on? Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Aug 14 09:01:55 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707148715.AA871574908@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore. Inside the modulator can, I fear. I had another look inside last night. The two metal cans appear to be video circuitry (on motherboard) and modulator (separate). They are linked by a 4-way ribbon cable of which one conductor is ground. I suspect the remaining three of being video, line sync and frame sync. (They could, I suppose, be composite mono, U and V but I doubt it) > >Someday I must get a decent TV standard monitor - probably the Barco I > >sold to my brother for use as a telly - but I ought to have a composite > > Err... You do not use a Barco monitor as a TV. It's far too nice for that. I > happen to have one, you see. Au contraire, the Barco is one of the few pieces of kit I _would_ consider using as a telly (the other being my Bush TV24 of course). > Not of course. There were Barco's with built-in PAL, SECAM or NTSC decoders OK, you win. > >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side > >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips > >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for > >> example...) Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I can't read the numbers of the chips inside the video can unless I desolder said can from PCB. Philip. From hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com Thu Aug 14 06:20:33 1997 From: hans1 at filan00.grenoble.hp.com (Hans Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8 Message-ID: <33F2EA01.C79E670F@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> bluesky6@ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) wrote : > There is or was a prentice hall book on logic design that described > the design of a PDP-8 workalike. I bought the book and told myself > that one day, I'll build a PDP-8 with EPLDs. Like Allison, I ended up > with 16 bits and then other things got in the way... > The book is called top-down logic design or something like that. The Art of Digital Design, an introduction to top-down design by Franklin P. Prosser and David E. Winkel Prentice-Hall 1987 ISBN 0-13-046673-5 025 I have a copy and can highly recommend it. It has a two complete design descriptions of a PDP-8 CPU, one a state machine implementation the other a microprogrammed one. Talking of 16 bit extensions to the PDP-8, that is what the HP-2116A appears to be, anyone konw that processor? Regards, Hans B Pufal From ard at siva.bris.ac.uk Thu Aug 14 15:42:40 1997 From: ard at siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <009B8C51.2990815A.32@siva.bris.ac.uk> > Well, finding a composite video point is trivial, therefore. > >Inside the modulator can, I fear. > >I had another look inside last night. The two metal cans appear to be >video circuitry (on motherboard) and modulator (separate). They are >linked by a 4-way ribbon cable of which one conductor is ground. I >suspect the remaining three of being video, line sync and frame sync. >(They could, I suppose, be composite mono, U and V but I doubt it) Assuming that there are no other connections to the 'Modulator' then one of those wires has to be a power rail. I'd guess (without seeing the device or the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and (PAL-encoded) chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it feeds audio through to the TV. >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for >> >> example...) >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I What the heck are those? >can't read the numbers of the chips inside the video can unless I >desolder said can from PCB. Well, that's what I'd have done by now... > >Philip. -tony From sinasohn at crl.com Thu Aug 14 09:49:40 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970814075108.53bf66ec@ricochet.net> At 08:26 PM 8/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >The other day I haggled over a quarter for god's sake! Last weekend at a garage sale, a guy wanted to sell me three things (kiddie cars) for a quarter. I gave him $.50. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Aug 14 10:19:26 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:47 2005 Subject: Could I build a PDP-8 In-Reply-To: Hans Pufal's message of Thu, 14 Aug 1997 13:20:33 +0200 References: <33F2EA01.C79E670F@filan00.grenoble.hp.com> Message-ID: <199708141519.IAA03753@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Hans Pufal writes: > The Art of Digital Design, an introduction to top-down design > by Franklin P. Prosser and David E. Winkel > Prentice-Hall 1987 ISBN 0-13-046673-5 025 Thanks. Maybe this was a popular thing to do in the mid-1980s? The undergraduate computer architecture course (1983 I think, maybe 1984) I took basically went from gates to a PDP-8-like CPU over the course of the semester. Somewhere at the beginning I think we spent a half-hour on the fact that there are different logic families, but we never touched on that again. (This was a Computer Science course, Real Hardware seemed to be the province of the Electrical Engineering department.) > Talking of 16 bit extensions to the PDP-8, that is what the HP-2116A > appears to be, anyone konw that processor? By manuals only I'm afraid, and I spent more time fascinated by the possibilities of user-developed microcode in the 2100A. The 2116A is entirely hardwired, with two accumulators, 16-bit word, 32KW memory I think. Oh, and stable across the same environmental conditions as other HP instrumentation. I suggest you webulate over to www.chac.org and look for the plain-text versions of Engine 2.3 and 2.4. You want to read the interviews with Barney Oliver and Joe Schoendorf in those issues. -Frank McConnell From idavis at comland.com Thu Aug 14 11:00:52 1997 From: idavis at comland.com (Isaac Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Can we help this guy out? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970814160052.008f6bcc@mail.comland.com> I was sent this email and I figured who better to help this guy out, than our little group. =================================================== Return-Path: MajorLeague@getthe.net Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:54:10 -0600 From: Major97 Reply-To: majorleague@getthe.net To: idavis@comland.com Subject: Do those disk drives work? Your disk drives mentioned in your rescue page, you have listed apple II drives. Would you be willing to part with a couple of them? I would like to know how much you would want etc. if you sold. I would pay shipping. I have an apple knockoff (I think it is a pear) I really don't know what it is but it came with apple IIe stuff. My drives are hatched. Thanks Steve =================================================== I also encouraged him to join the list. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, idavis@comland.com | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html From eric at fudge.uchicago.edu Thu Aug 14 13:19:01 1997 From: eric at fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: applecolor rgb monitor info needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970810232317.0093e240@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.32.19970810232317.0093e240@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <199708141819.NAA27519@fudge.uchicago.edu> Roger Merchberger said, > >i have this big apple monitor that i need some help with. it's big, beige, > >and heavy with a motorized tilt screen and a db15 connector. ... > > If it's a sub-miniature DB-15, then that sounds like a PC VGA plug-in. If > it's a normal-sized DB-15, then that sounds like it's a direct-connect for > a later-model Smackintosh. (I say this jokingly, I have one...) Actually, no, it won't work with a Mac, even though the connector type is the same. This is an AppleColor 100 (for a IIe), which is digital RGB, not the analog type that Macintoshes (and VGA displays) expect. The IIgs RGB monitor also uses a 15-pin connector, but it's not compatible with either the IIe or the Mac monitors. eric From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 14 14:33:48 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970814075108.53bf66ec@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Aug 14, 97 09:49:40 am Message-ID: <9708141833.AA15654@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 446 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970814/3f1430de/attachment-0001.ksh From Eros at mail.dec.com Thu Aug 14 15:08:11 1997 From: Eros at mail.dec.com (Anthony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: ---------- From: Kai Kaltenbach[SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 5:32 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: IBM 5100 > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I. > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for > another couple of weeks. Sheesh! It's all a matter of timing, I suppose. Aside from the system I didn't buy several years ago, I spoke with a town manager in upstate NY who had trashed two 5100s after posting a "for sale" message on a web page and had received no responses. > I am aware of a gentleman who may be willing to part with a 5110 + dual > 8" external drives + printer, but he wants a "very generous offer" for > it and the shipping alone would be a killer since the total weight is > about 200 lbs (he's in PA). Pennsylvania's not a problem -- I'm in Delaware and could certainly pick it up. What's the difference between the 5100 and the 5110? > BTW, do you have a web page for your collection? Not yet, but it's on my list of things to do... -- Tony Eros Proprietor -- FooBear's Cluttered Cellar Classic Computer Collection From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 14 19:07:54 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Anthony Eros wrote: > > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an Apple I. > > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly > > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever seen > > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He also > > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on for > > another couple of weeks. I have to question this "rarer than almost anything escept for an Apple I" as I have seen two 5100 in varying states in the last few months. I've seen even less of more obscure computers. In my estimation, 5100's aren't the hardest things to find. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 14 19:04:59 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9708141833.AA15654@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > I would tend to agree with Roger. Deal with people fairly and they'll > respect you and your hobby. If you start haggling over every tiny little > thing they'll just throw it away instead of calling you next time... I disagree. Nobody is going to say "Gee, I'd really like to take all this old junk and sell it at a swap meet but those darn hagglers just make it such a chore!!!" It's part of the whole swap meet experience. The fact is, I do treat people fairly. I'm paying them what I feel it is worth, and as we all know, that is what a "fair price" is. They certainly don't have to sell it to me for what I ask, and in fact that has happened on several occasions. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 14 16:07:46 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: References: <199708121417.AA07254@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: <199708150040.UAA13542@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 07:40:20 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Sam Ismail > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: A moment of silence, please > On Tue, 12 Aug 1997, William Donzelli wrote: > > > I also talked to a guy that deals with old computers. Two weeks ago, he > > _finally_ scrapped out a bunch of old machines - really old. Amongst the > > deaths were various PDP-8s, two PDP-9s, a Burroughs mainframe, and an IBM > > 7090 of some sort. > > > > Of course I wretched. The loss of the PDP-8s is bad (I do not know > > specific model numbers), but the others are a real shame. Known PDP-9s > > number in the _low_ single digits, the 7090 perhaps less, but old > > Burroughs equipment is probably extinct. > > > > In any case, this shows that the stuff was not _all_ scrapped years ago. > > This shows the need to get the word out to people that you collect old > computers. You never know who's going to say "Oh really? My dad has > this old mainframe in his garage that he's throwing out next week." Once > word gets out that you collect old computers, people will be coming to > you. It gets in their head and they start to find the opportunities for > you through casual contacts with friends and relatives. This has > happened to me on a few occassions; people I have explained my hobby to > have come back to me saying they saw System X or heard of someone wanting > to get rid of System Y. > > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass This newsgroup is a real savior. I was beginning to think my friends and relatives references to my "lunacy" might be justified. But NOW I realize that I'm not the only obsolete computer nutcase. Kind of gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling all over. I must, however, admit to a transgression of which I am still in deep denial. In a pique of " I have to make some room in this bloody 1 bedroom apt." I threw out a bunch of mono monitors as well as a working LANPAR terminal. From the guys that Lotus reputedly stole their system from. Lotus won the court case because of some technicalities in LANPAR's copyright application. I only shudder to think that it might have been the last one in existence. ciao larry From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 14 19:54:14 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D9A313@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Yeesh, if you run into any, I'll trade you for them! I have several friends looking for them. I know of only two collectors besides myself who have 5100's. In contrast, there are about 15 Altairs represented on this mailing list. I do know of an Apple I that's for sale... anybody got $10,000 burning a hole in their pocket? Yeesh. Kai > ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1997 5:07 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: RE: IBM 5100 > > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Anthony Eros wrote: > > > > They're extremely rare. Rarer than almost anything except an > Apple I. > > > Just before I was lucky enough to be gifted mine from a saintly > > > old-timer, I saw one sell for $650. That's the only one I've ever > seen > > > for sale, and the seller said he'd received over 60 inquiries. He > also > > > said he could have gotten more if he wanted to drag the bidding on > for > > > another couple of weeks. > > I have to question this "rarer than almost anything escept for an > Apple > I" as I have seen two 5100 in varying states in the last few months. > I've seen even less of more obscure computers. In my estimation, > 5100's > aren't the hardest things to find. > > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, > Writer, Jackass > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 14 22:00:06 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: from "Sam Ismail" at Aug 14, 97 05:04:59 pm Message-ID: <9708150200.AA16924@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1548 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970814/eeaf6fe1/attachment-0001.ksh From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 14 21:05:50 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: <9708150200.AA16924@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Oh - you never mentioned it was rather "common" consumer stuff at a > flea market. My comments were more oriented towards dealing with Yes. > scrap dealers who have 1800-pound minis which will get junked unless > I go out of my way to make it both convenient and pleasant to sell them > to me. Believe me, most of these scrap dealers will melt a PDP-9 > down in an instant. By being excrutiatingly compliant with their > particular needs, I can often get access to complete systems, before > they begin hacking away at bus cables, ripping apart custom backplanes, > and pulling the PC boards to be melted down for gold. If I haggled for > just an instant, that PDP-9 would go on its way to the crusher. I'm talking > about building up long-term relationships and preserving classic machines - > not about saving a buck (or a quarter)! I totally agree. And again, I was referring mainly to swap meets. You don't generally build long term relationships at swap meets. The scrap dealers are a much different story. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com Thu Aug 14 21:45:46 1997 From: MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <802B50C269DECF11B6A200A0242979EF28C7B6@consulting.ensemble.net> A Composite video conversion is pretty easy; I converted a G7400 over in about 5 minutes. > -----Original Message----- > From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > [SMTP:Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 6:20 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Philips G7000 > > > > collectible. (What is the G7000 anyway? Yes, I did buy it! It > has an > > > 8048 as the CPU, of all things!) > > > > It is a video game system that is compatible with the Magnavox > Odessey^2 > > > > Do you have any cartridges for it. If not then I have a few > duplicates. > > Yes thanks, I have four or five. I don't expect to use the thing > until > I can find out how to get composite video or RGB out, since I don't > possess a television. > > [For those of you not in the UK, here one requires a licence to > operate > "Television Receiving Apparatus", which I think includes any TV with a > > UHF tuner, but not a monitor. The licence fee is (without looking up > either the current fee or the exchange rate) about $120 a year, and I > am > not prepared to pay this. So I don't have a TV - and seldom miss it.] > > Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 15 08:57:11 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707158716.AA871661134@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > Assuming that there are no other connections to the 'Modulator' then one of > those wires has to be a power rail. I'd guess (without seeing the device or Oops! The connection to the PSU is another ground, so I guess you must be right. > the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and (PAL-encoded) > chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it feeds audio > through to the TV. If one is not composite video, where is the sync encoded? On Y (i.e. making it composite mono)? I suppose this could just possibly be video + composite sync - just what I need. > >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the video side > >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? (Philips > >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, for > >> >> example...) > > >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. I > > What the heck are those? 8245 is a Nat Semi keyboard controller. This chip says Intel on it, but I was assuming, probably very rashly, that it was the same thing. 6110 is a typo for 6810 :-), in fact Motorola MCM6810, a RAM chip. Looking it up last night I discovered that it is in fact 128 by 8 (yes, 128 bytes!) so I cannot think what it is used for! (It is too slow to be a video output buffer) Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 15 09:00:21 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <9707158716.AA871661315@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > A Composite video conversion is pretty easy; I converted a G7400 over in > about 5 minutes. Could I have some details, please? Is composite Video easy to find in the circuit, or do I have to reverse engineer or poke around with a scope? Philip. From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 15 05:59:30 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) In-Reply-To: <199708072127.QAA24392@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 starling@umr.edu wrote: > > OK, here is the complete listing from the CCC of the machines made by > > Atari. Please consult your favorite references and confirm/deny or > > complete the missing data. > > Missing Atari Computer: > Atari ATW Transputer -- They only made like 5,000 of these and I WANT ONE!!!! The document you mention below says that "only 350 machines were made (50 prototypes and 300 production machines or, according to documents from Atari, 100 prototypes and 250 production machines)." [Translation my own and may be inexact.] Definitely a rare beast! > Now that I have my Lisa, this is my next Holy Grail. It was Atari's > stab at the unix workstation market. It was a multiprocessor setup > that had a 68000 as some sort of main brain and then you plugged in > modules that had Transputer T800 processors on them, max 12. It ran > some nifty OS called Helios and had semi-ok graphics capabilities. This sounds very much like Commodore's ill-fated transputer project. It also ran an OS called Helios, and used T800 processors. There's an article on Commodore's transputer project in AmigoTimes V1.2. AmigoTimes never liked putting dates on their magazines (dammit) but it's probably from the around same time-frame as the Atari machine. There is a 1988 date mentioned in the article, and on the transputer board in the picture. Actually, the web article you directed us to states about the Atari machine that "it was first presented in November 1987 at COMDEX in Las Vegas under the name ABAQ", so it looks like the Atari machine was earlier. I've seen someone on Usenet say that they have some Commodore transputer boards, and I think he said that the project was cancelled after problems with the person or people who were writing the Helios operating system or something. Also the T-800 chips were never cheap enough to use in products for the kinds of markets Atari and Commodore generally looked for. I don't know how long ago it was that I saw that - it could still be on Deja News. A few quotes from the AmigoTimes article, "The Amiga Supercomputer" by Ernest N. Nagy: . . . "The operating system that will control the transputer chips, is called HELIOS. HELIOS is being written in 'C' by Perry Helion, specifically for use with the transputer and should be available by the fall of 1988." . . . "To comply with existing Amiga graphics standards, Xwindows will be used as the graphics interface. The Xwindow environment will be running through a shell command interpreter very similar to the UNIX shell." . . . "The advantage of a transputer outweighs its disadvantages. Each transputer has local RAM, the T-800 has an onboard floating point processor working at 1.2 MFlops and each chip (T-800) is rated at 10 mips. Each transputer communicates on an independent hardware level via four inter-processor communication links. Because transputers are self-contained and work in parallel, they have no bus bandwidth limitations, therefore 'n' transputers means 'n' times the performance. Unlike conventional CPUs linked together, transputers have linear growth potential. Each Amiga can be further expanded by up to four independent multitransputer cards. Each multitransputer card will contain four transputers (either the TMS414 or TMS800) with up to 4MB of on-board memory. These multitransputer cards will fit into the AT slot and an Amiga 2000 will be capable of supporting up to 17 transputers; providing a total of 170 mips in processing speed and 20 MFlops. The AT slots just provide the power to the board. An Amiga with a root transputer and one transputer board forms a parallel pipe configuration and two or more transputer boards allows two-dimensional movement capabilities from chip to chip. If 17 transputers is not enough power, then workstation superclusters can be implemented for very high performance application needs. To allow for full speed server code transfers, the workstation must be able to transfer data to and from the transputer in DMA mode. This will require a new device driver in the Amiga OS which will be optimized for HELIOS type data transfers. Presently link techniques are being developed that will allow data transfers between stations, at a rate of 20Mbit/s. There is a theoretical limit to the amount of transputers that can be controlled by HELIOS; it stands untested at about 30 workstations (or 500 transputers), but it may be more." . . . Then the article goes on to an interview with Dieter Priess, General Manager of Engineering at Braunschweig: . . . "AMIGOTIMES: We have heard about transputers before, but never with regards to the Amiga. The first we really heard of it, after INMOS brought it out, was after Jack Tramiel (Atari) announced that he is going to bring out a transputer based computer to compete with the success of the Amiga. When we got wind about a possible Amiga transputer expansion board, it was great news. PREISS: He is using the same operating system (HELIOS) as we are, so nobody is actually ahead of the timeframe, or behind. Except that we have some more plans with HELIOS than I have seen in his announcement at the moment. His machine has a closed architecture, and I think it contains 12 transputers. He thinks this is the kind of workstation that the future may need. We've found that limiting a computer to a given number of transputers is a violation of the transputer concept itself. Our policy has been, in the past, to keep machines as flexible and as open as possible. I really think this concept has to be applied to each expansion that we create for the Amiga. So both HELIOS, as well as the hardware, have to be open enough to support everything that is required by the demand of the user and not by our offer. AMIGOTIMES: Will the transputer board contain four transputers on the main board? PREISS: No, there are four transputers on the expansion boards that go into the PC slots; since we want to keep the Amiga slots free. The PC slots just supply the power for those boards, they do not use any bus signals. This means if you have four free PC slots in the system, you can add up to four expansion boards (16 transputers). Combined with the root transputer board in the Amiga slot, you end up with a total of 17 transputers." . . . "We personally saw the transputer root board working, so it's not 'vaporware', but HELIOS is not ready yet and until it is, the transputer board will continue to be improved. The entire system should be ready by the fall and hopefully be ready for commercial sale just before the Christmas shopping rush (the first week of December)." . . . It's a big article, and it's got a photo of the root board, and on it can be read the text: TRANSPUTER BOARD A2000 MADE IN W. GERMANY (BSW) (C)1988 COMMODORE Anyway, that's enough typing for tonight on such a vapourous (and not even quite classic) subject. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From groberts at mitre.org Fri Aug 15 07:05:31 1997 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Mark 8 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970815080531.007ceae0@mail90> From: Tom 4:22 Subject: Mark-8 for sale FYI, from comp.os.cpm: >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. >Serious collectors only. >Tom Smith >tomxs@hotmail.com From rcini at msn.com Fri Aug 15 08:19:55 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get? Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, I finally heard from that guy at Temple University (Philly, PA) about the truckloads of PDP equipment. I'm going down there next Friday to get some stuff. I asked this question before, but didn't get a complete answer, so here it goes again... "If you were able to get your pick of PDP-11 equipment (like 11/34s) and accessories, what would you get?" This is my first PDP acquisition, so I don't know what to look for (and I don't have a truck, so I can't just haul it all!). I don't even know how big this stuff is, but I'd like to try to get a "complete" (whatever that is) PDP system, but a rack-mount style, which is easier for me to transport. From what I understand, the Temple computer department has truckloads of this equipment, from all types of hardware to software and manuals. I'm looking for an expert's recommendation as to what to shop for. Thanks for the input! ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET e-mail: rcini@msn.com - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 15 09:13:45 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970815080531.007ceae0@mail90> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > From: > Tom > Subject: > Mark-8 for sale > FYI, from comp.os.cpm: > >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. > >Serious collectors only. > >Tom Smith Based on the junk email I get through hotmail.com (it outnumbers what I get from this mailing list, a non-trivial amount), I wouldn't trust a posting from there if it told me I was alive. My assumption is that "serious collectors only" means "I want a truckload of money" not "I want this thing to go to someone who cares". -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 15 09:56:19 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Glenn Roberts wrote: > > From: > > Tom > > Subject: > > Mark-8 for sale > > FYI, from comp.os.cpm: > > >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. > > >Serious collectors only. > > >Tom Smith > > Based on the junk email I get through hotmail.com (it outnumbers what I > get from this mailing list, a non-trivial amount), I wouldn't trust a > posting from there if it told me I was alive. My assumption is that Actually, hotmail.com has normal users along with its obnoxious spammers. I communicate with people at hotmail.com all the time. > "serious collectors only" means "I want a truckload of money" not "I want > this thing to go to someone who cares". I'm sure the guy has dollar signs emanating from every pore of his body. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 15 11:33:57 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: from "Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers" at Aug 15, 97 10:13:45 am Message-ID: <9708151533.AA17444@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970815/28a3927a/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 15 11:39:28 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Mark 8 In-Reply-To: <9708151533.AA17444@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 15, 97 08:33:57 am Message-ID: <9708151539.AA17413@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 676 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970815/ebaa8d6d/attachment-0001.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Fri Aug 15 07:24:14 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: HP 9831A Message-ID: <199708151610.JAA28337@mx4.u.washington.edu> Dug up an HP 9831A...single-line, dot matrix display, full keyboard desktop unit (abt the size of a typewriter). Looks fairly old. Seems to be a full computer (not a programmable calculator, which they also made a lot of), as it wakes up in a BASIC mode. I get a lot of error messages --probably due to improper commands. It will accept and run a simple program. Anyone want it? manney@nwohio.com From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 15 11:21:38 1997 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Benedict Chong) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <33f48157.85478536@smtp.ix.netcom.com> I have actually seen the Atari Transputer machine at a show in Paris. If memory serves, one of the demos they had was the mandelbrot drawing program with the 4 transputers each taking a part of the screen and computing it at the same time while a stock ST had the 68K calculate the entire screen by itself. IMHO, Atari had a lot of great products in those days. Unfortunately, most of them were never really marketed or even so, were marketed poorly. Ben From djenner at halcyon.com Fri Aug 15 11:36:43 1997 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get? Message-ID: <199708151644.JAA00361@mail1.halcyon.com> Rich, I have found that getting hardware is relatively easy. I probably have enough pieces to put together a half-dozen Q-Bus 11's, although I consider most of the pieces "spares". Software, however, is another matter. Original distribution disks with accompanying documentation has been hard to come by. If you have any knowledge of DEC OSs, grab all you can get. For instance, I have been looking for an original distribution (disks, docs) for RT-11 Version 5.2 or later. If you run across a spare one of these, I would be happy to help you dispose of it! :) Thanks, Dave Jenner djenner@halcyon.com Seattle, WA 206-527-2018 ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr. > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: PDP Stuff-What to get? > Date: Friday, August 15, 1997 6:19 AM > > Hello, all: > > Well, I finally heard from that guy at Temple University (Philly, PA) about > the truckloads of PDP equipment. I'm going down there next Friday to get some > stuff. I asked this question before, but didn't get a complete answer, so here > it goes again... > > "If you were able to get your pick of PDP-11 equipment (like 11/34s) and > accessories, what would you get?" This is my first PDP acquisition, so I don't > know what to look for (and I don't have a truck, so I can't just haul it > all!). I don't even know how big this stuff is, but I'd like to try to get a > "complete" (whatever that is) PDP system, but a rack-mount style, which is > easier for me to transport. > > From what I understand, the Temple computer department has truckloads of this > equipment, from all types of hardware to software and manuals. I'm looking for > an expert's recommendation as to what to shop for. > > Thanks for the input! > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Rich Cini/WUGNET > e-mail: rcini@msn.com > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCPS Windows 95/Netowrking From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Aug 15 11:43:20 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D9A3EB@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> No transputers, but I know where you can get a 1450XLD from an ex-Atari employee, although he is only willing to sell it if he gets "the right price", whatever that is. Kai > ---------- > From: bluesky6@ix.netcom.com > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Friday, August 15, 1997 9:21 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Transputers (was: Re: CCC : Atari machines) > > I have actually seen the Atari Transputer machine at a show in Paris. > > If memory serves, one of the demos they had was the mandelbrot drawing > program with the 4 transputers each taking a part of the screen and > computing it at the same time while a stock ST had the 68K calculate > the entire screen by itself. > > IMHO, Atari had a lot of great products in those days. Unfortunately, > most of them were never really marketed or even so, were marketed > poorly. > > Ben > From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Fri Aug 15 12:14:24 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Haggling Message-ID: <33F48E70.2F40@oboe.calpoly.edu> > On Thu, 14 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > I would tend to agree with Roger. Deal with people fairly and they'll > > respect you and your hobby. If you start haggling over every tiny little > > thing they'll just throw it away instead of calling you next time... > > I disagree. Nobody is going to say "Gee, I'd really like to take all > this old junk and sell it at a swap meet but those darn hagglers just > make it such a chore!!!" > > It's part of the whole swap meet experience. The fact is, I do treat > people fairly. I'm paying them what I feel it is worth, and as we all > know, that is what a "fair price" is. They certainly don't have to sell > it to me for what I ask, and in fact that has happened on several occasions. > Sam At a swap meet or garage sale most people expect you to haggle. That is part of the game. You can tell pretty quick if they're not into it becuse they say no to your offer. Most of the people I buy stuff from are just trying to get rid of it. They're more than happy to bargain. Especially if you buy all the boxes of "computer junk" they have. On the other hand there's a lady who hauls out an old Amiga 500 without power supply or mouse every week and is "Firm at $100". Someday she'll figure it out. (usually $5-$10 at Goodwill) I recall a stubborn seller a few years back. I was searching for a collectible Coke machine. I called a guy that had one for $1000. I mentioned making an offer once I had seen it and he told me he was "firm" on $1000 and seemed insulted. Well, before I could get there to check it out, a fellow collector drove down there within an hour and hauled it away for $200! Funny thing is that at the time I was ready to fork out at least $600 for it! You can never tell what people are thinking. From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Fri Aug 15 12:16:51 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Please help this Amiga 500! Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970815171651.008f52e4@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Lets try and help this guy out, he is trying to hook the young! I got a call yesterday from this guy who was looking for a disk drive for an Amiga 500, he is trying to set it up for his young niece. As luck would have it, a disk drive was the only piece of Amiga hardware that I have, so I went down there today to set it up for him. Unfortunately, it seems that the problem is not the disk drive but the floppy controller (i think). Not being fortunate enough to have owned an Amiga myself, I am at a loss. Here is the problem in brief: The machine will display the little picture asking for the disk... Put the disk in, and the drive is polled, but doesn't read it, so it ask again for the disk... I tried my drive in the system, with the same result (hence thinking it might be the controller)... I'm not exactly sure if it is the right disk he has, he ordered it from Toronto at a cost of $26.00 (can), it says Amiga workbench, however I am not sure if that is really what is on it... I would appreciate any help or suggestions from anybody who might have come across this situation before. Remember: This guy is setting this up for his young niece, who calls every day asking if it is ready yet. I think its great to get the young into classic computing (my own nieces just call my machines door stops, and call me a geek for having them ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 15 15:14:39 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: HP 9831A In-Reply-To: <199708151610.JAA28337@mx4.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Aug 15, 97 08:24:14 am Message-ID: <9708151914.AA13476@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1000 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970815/04bc8e69/attachment-0001.ksh From MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com Fri Aug 15 15:40:29 1997 From: MPritchard at Ensemble-Studios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Philips G7000 Message-ID: <802B50C269DECF11B6A200A0242979EF28C7BA@consulting.ensemble.net> > > the service manual) that the other 2 were luminance (Y) and > (PAL-encoded) > > chrominance, or possibly composite colour video and audio if it > feeds audio > > through to the TV. > > The composite video on the G7400 is Pal encoded, and I'm pretty sure > it is on the G7000. I have 2 sets of schematics. One for the > Odyssey2 (where every part number is an internal Magnavox number :-P > and the other for the G7000) - I seem to recall something about PAL > conversion on the RF modulator board. I probably just don't remember > right. > > If one is not composite video, where is the sync encoded? On Y (i.e. > making it composite mono)? I suppose this could just possibly be > video > + composite sync - just what I need. > > > >> >> What chips _other than the 8048_ are in this device? Is the > video side > > >> >> custom or does it use one of the many Philips video chipsets? > (Philips > > >> >> Prestel terminals tend to be stuffed with their Teletext IC's, > for > > >> >> example...) > > > > >Pretty boring, I'm afraid - 8245 and 6110 plus about 20 TTL chips. > I > > > > What the heck are those? > > 8245 is a Nat Semi keyboard controller. This chip says Intel on it, > but > I was assuming, probably very rashly, that it was the same thing. > > [Matt Pritchard] > We've been unable to find any info on the video chip; though it > supposed to be an Intel chip. Most of it has been reversed enginnered > though. > > 8 colors > 4 sprites, 8 by 8 pixels, independantly positioned & colord. can be > double sized > 12 characters, independantly positioned & colored, up to an 8 byte > tall strip from the character rom (512 bytes, 64 chars) can show just > part of a character. > 4 quad characters. 4 characters positioned in a horizontal row with > one character spacing inbetween. independantly colored. Put two of > these together to make 8 consecutive text characters. > > Background grid 10 by 8 blocks with 4 thin line segements around each > block. Complete off/on control of ever segment. Set a flag in the > video chip to fill in the large box to the right of each vertical line > segment. > > The horizontal retrace is run into the 8048 so you can count scanlines > - that is how colors are changed midway down the screen. > > 6110 is a typo for 6810 :-), in fact Motorola MCM6810, a RAM chip. > Looking it up last night I discovered that it is in fact 128 by 8 > (yes, > 128 bytes!) so I cannot think what it is used for! (It is too slow to > > be a video output buffer) > > [Matt Pritchard] > Are you sure it's not 256 bytes? > > Philip. From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 15 18:39:40 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 Message-ID: Anyone want any Kaypro 10s? I know someone who has a couple he wants to get rid of. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 15 20:00:44 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer References: Message-ID: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> A friend of mine has several Heathkit Analog Computers and was thinking about selling them. Apparently the larger one was used in a college and has 12 or so tube type op amps. I've never seen the smaller ones so I don't know anything about them except that he has some paperwork to go with them. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll look up and post his email address. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Aug 15 20:33:57 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: HP 9831A Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970816013357.0067d460@pop3.concentric.net> how much you asking? I'll pick up the postage and little something for your time. jrkeys@concentric.net At 08:24 AM 8/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >Dug up an HP 9831A...single-line, dot matrix display, full keyboard desktop >unit (abt the size of a typewriter). Looks fairly old. > >Seems to be a full computer (not a programmable calculator, which they also >made a lot of), as it wakes up in a BASIC mode. I get a lot of error >messages --probably due to improper commands. It will accept and run a >simple program. > >Anyone want it? > >manney@nwohio.com > > > From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Fri Aug 15 21:06:47 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > Anyone want any Kaypro 10s? I know someone who has a couple he wants to > get rid of. How much? Where at? > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Les more@crazy.rutgers.edu From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 16 00:00:54 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer References: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> Message-ID: <33F53406.62BBF02A@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine has several Heathkit Analog Computers and was thinking > about selling them. Apparently the larger one was used in a college and > has > 12 or so tube type op amps. I've never seen the smaller ones so I don't > know anything about them except that he has some paperwork to go with > them. > If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll look up and post his email > address. I've gotten a number of requests for his email address. I've already sent him email and as soon as I receive an indication that I have the correct email address, I'll forward the mail I have to him and post his email address here. From Historical at aol.com Sat Aug 16 03:30:15 1997 From: Historical at aol.com (Historical@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Old computer auction Message-ID: <970816043015_854478501@emout13.mail.aol.com> Maybe we can help someone sell an old system in the future. I'm just now fooling around with an internet auction. We hope to do another in the future. Check out the old computer auction at: http://members.aol.com/mtpro I appreciate any discussion and comments. Thanks. Best, David Greelish, Classic Computing Press http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 16 10:43:33 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Old computer auction References: <970816043015_854478501@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <33F5CAA5.8467496B@rain.org> Historical@aol.com wrote: > Maybe we can help someone sell an old system in the future. I'm just now > fooling around with an internet auction. We hope to do another in the > future. > Check out the old computer auction at: > > http://members.aol.com/mtpro > > I appreciate any discussion and comments. Thanks. Best, Hi Dave, just curious how the minimum bids were arrived at as they are quite high based on the prices I see out here in California. The web page looks great and one addition that would be make it nice is to see the latest bid and an easy way to bid. One format I have seen and looks really good is at http://www2.ebay.com/aw/list.html. The idea of an old computer auction is great and best of luck with it! From william at ans.net Sat Aug 16 11:57:04 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: IBM 5100 In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205D9A313@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708161657.AA10616@interlock.ans.net> > I know of only two collectors besides myself who have 5100's. In > contrast, there are about 15 Altairs represented on this mailing list. I have one of the things, along with most of the associated bits. Unfortunately, The two BIG floppies were scrapped by the previous owner - thus, I am in need of one or two (5108 maybe?). I have never fired it up, as it has some power supply problems that need to be solved. Once I fix that (currently in the endless queue of projects) I should make some copies of the software (if the tapes are still good) for other collectors. My example actually earned its keep, doing the accounting for a Chicago movie theater in the late 1970s. William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sat Aug 16 13:00:53 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: A moment of silence, please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708161800.AA13799@interlock.ans.net> > I totally agree. And again, I was referring mainly to swap meets. You > don't generally build long term relationships at swap meets. I have to disagree here - swap meets are great places to build relationships. The best way is to become a regular, setting up a table with a few things for sale or trade (it need not be much) - of course, be sure to place a big WANTED sign in front so everyone can see. If you have something small (micro guys!), bring it along as a bit of a display. When I lived in Chicago, I did this for my radio and radar collecting interests, along with a fellow military radio collector. In a couple of years, we became fixtures of the hamfest/swapfest scene, and the leads just poured in. Many an old radioman would see something he used in a radioroom and come over and talk, and occaisonally they would have some extra things sitting in the basement they want moved out! Bringing out a PDP-8/e or Altair 8800 or whatever could have the same effect. Many of the hackers of the 1960s and 70s are still around, and still have the stuff, not knowing that someone would ever want. I acquired one of my PDP-8s and a carload of ancient 6800 systems (Sphere and SWTPC) that way. > The scrap > dealers are a much different story. True. They can not keep systems sitting around, waiting for a really good price - the next truckload is just around the corner. They are generally happy to sell something for scrap value (no less, do not even try!) - if you get to know them well. It saves them the labor of scrapping the big boxes, and gives them quick money. Keep in mind scrap prices can be quite large. AN IBM 360 is worth about $800, a typical big PDP-11 may be worth $125. The gold in the old machines is often quite thick. The iron value is often a liability to the scrap men (2-3 cents per pound), so if a box you lust for is mostly steel, do not get taken! William Donzelli william@ans.net From tedbird at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 16 13:24:34 1997 From: tedbird at ix.netcom.com (tedbird) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Mark 8 References: <3.0.3.32.19970815080531.007ceae0@mail90> Message-ID: <33F5F062.AE1@ix.netcom.com> Glenn Roberts wrote: > > From: > Tom > > 4:22 > > Subject: > Mark-8 for sale > > FYI, from comp.os.cpm: > > >Mark-8 Computer for sale. Intel 8008 introduced July 1974. > >Serious collectors only. > >Tom Smith > >tomxs@hotmail.com How much are you looking to get for the Mark-8? Ted tedbird@ix.netcom.com From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Aug 17 00:21:31 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: NSC800 Message-ID: Hi I found a scrap place today that ahd a few computers - got on good terms and now they are going to ring me whenever they pick one up. :) Apparantly they just scrapped an old Xerox box, but no details, and they get the occasional Altair and stuff. Anyway, they had little on hand that interested me (I already had their Amstrads, and the Commodore 128D's had no monitor or keyboards, so I thought I would think about them), but I did pick up something - I just don't know what it is. It's about the size of a original PC/XT, but the case is blue - with a blue clear panel on the front. Has two com ports and a vdu port, and two 8" drives. I opened her up, and she has a rack with everything plugging in at teh back, inc lots of controllers. There was a NSC800 cpu module, and when I removed it, sure enough, there was a NSC800 N-1 cpu. No idea what that is though. Heaps of switches, leds and stuff behind the front panel, too. Anyway, this is somewhat outside my normal collecting range, and isn't probably of much interest, but at a couple of dollars I thought it might be worth looking into it. Can anyone tell me what it is, or anything about it? Thanks heaps, Adam. From rcini at msn.com Sat Aug 16 21:24:34 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: FW: Altair Scans Message-ID: Hello, again... Well, the Altair scans got here today, and I must say that the quality is excellent. There's stuff for the 8800b, the 8800, some add-in boards, and the "computer-notes" pamphlets. All told, with the schematics, there's about 90mb of info. Based on a quick count, there's probably 750-1000 pages of info. The files are in Adobe Acrobat PDF format. As soon Bill can reach his computer again, I'll Fedex them to him to post on the ftp site. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Aug 17 01:14:12 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Address change! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970816231412.00e71af0@mail.wizards.net> Hi, folks, Well, it had to happen eventually I guess. I've had to change my address due to spamming of the old one. Please note that my new address will be kyrrin2@wizards.net. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 17 08:58:02 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: NSC800 Message-ID: <199708171358.AA01257@world.std.com> If this ends up being a duplicate, my apologies. The first one was sent while I may not have been subscribed under my new address. In any case... yes, a new address. I had to ditch the old one due to spamming. Please note the new one: kyrrin2@wizards.net. Caveat emptor! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Sun Aug 17 11:59:53 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: HP9100 I/O port Message-ID: Does anyone have any info on the I/O port on the back of the HP9100 desktop calculator? I believe that HP once produced a manual telling you how to link up homebrew/custom peripherals, but I don't have it, alas What I really need is a pinout, brief signal descriptions or timings, etc. I want to be able to output a few on/off signals (I don't care if they're binary or BCD encoded). -tony From Historical at aol.com Sun Aug 17 20:26:49 1997 From: Historical at aol.com (Historical@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 147 Message-ID: <970817212322_1486403672@emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 8/17/97 9:45:58 AM, you wrote: <> Marvin, Well, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida and I source all of my finds from the AOL classifieds and from a number of newsgroups. The prices are just my best guesses to minimum "shipped" values. The true value of any collectable is what the market will bare. I think I'm letting some of these things go at a pretty modest level (at least from my reference). Thank you for your comments, I'm going to keep trying to make it a better page. Best, David Greelish Classic Computing Press Jacksonville, FL historical@aol.com http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 17 21:17:37 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 147 References: <970817212322_1486403672@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <33F7B0C1.FC674A6A@rain.org> Historical@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/17/97 9:45:58 AM, you wrote: > > < quite high based on the prices I see out here in California.>> > > Marvin, Well, I'm here in Jacksonville, Florida and I source all of my > finds > from the AOL classifieds and from a number of newsgroups. The prices are > just > my best guesses to minimum "shipped" values. The true value of any > collectable is what the market will bare. I think I'm letting some of > these > things go at a pretty modest level (at least from my reference). Thank you > > for your comments, I'm going to keep trying to make it a better page. > Best, > > David Greelish > Classic Computing Press > Jacksonville, FL > historical@aol.com > http://www.cyberstreet.com/hcs/hcs.htm AH, I thought the prices were plus shipping rather than including shipping and that makes a BIG difference! BTW, I get an "object not found" message when I access the URL above. Second, I noticed you are looking for computers including the Northstar Horizon. Are you open to trading systems? I currently have four or five Horizons and am open to trading them for other systems/stuff I don't have (yes Sam, it is phrased the same as before :) .) The biggest problem *I* have with trading systems is the shipping costs are almost always more than what I can get the whole computer for assuming I can find the computer :)! From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 17 21:31:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith Microprocessor Trainer References: <970817212322_1486403672@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <33F7B3F9.FCA4922A@rain.org> I picked up a Heath/Zenith Microcomputer Learning System in excellent shape today for $20. However, the manuals didn't come with it. It uses the 65402 microprocessor Anyone with an extra set they are willing to sell/trade? Thanks. From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 17 23:25:10 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970818002508.00942450@mail.northernway.net> Well, guys & gals, remember me? I'm one of the folks who lives in the boonies that owns 70% of the classic machines in a 50 mile radius!!! I travelled just a bit closer to civilization over the weekend, and did a lot of gar[b]age saleing on Thurs. & Friday, and I did get one good find, well, for at least the thumb area of Michigan (lotsa farmers)... A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5. It even came in a computer/game holder, to keep everything organized. (haggled from $10... had to give wifey a lesson on "Don't ask me what it is, when I'm playing dumb!" ;-) Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3 types of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-( Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something? Anyway, keep digging, you'll eventually come up with something! Have fun, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 18 02:04:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:48 2005 Subject: Opus 5000 Message-ID: Anybody know what an Opus 5000 is? Someone offered me one for sale and I'm trying to figure out how much I should offer to pay him for it. Thanks. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 18 08:53:17 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707188719.AA871920147@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Hi there everyone! I went to the car boot sale again yesterday. For once, there were lots of computers on offer: two ZX Spectra (original 16K); one Spectrum +2; an Atari 620; any number of Commodore 64s in late-style cases. I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip microcomputer. THE LCD looks as if it might be 200 or 256 by 64 pixels (40 characters by 8 lines?) - I haven't powered it up yet because (a) the NiCd battery is flat and (b) I have yet to work out what voltage to feed it (3.5mm jack with tip negative). All I know is that it must be smoothed DC, since there is a diode but no smoothing capacitor in the input stage. The battery is 4.8V, and somewhat inconsistently marked 0.8 Ah - charge at 50mA for 14 hours (I make that 0.7Ah less charging losses), so the power supply (which feeds a linear regulator - transistor in parallel with 82 ohms) must be greater than this. I would guess at something in the region of 9V given the size of the resistors in the regulator circuit, but... The manufacturer's label on the back suggests it is a Microscribe Model 320, made by Microscribe Ltd at Cwmbran in South Wales. Since they had the forethought to put an address and 'phone number on the label, I shall try and contact them this week (DV). Meanwhile, does anyone have any info on this? In particular, what voltage do I feed it? Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 03:57:39 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds In-Reply-To: <9707188719.AA871920147@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) Nice!!!.... > > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 Very nice... > > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip > microcomputer. Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a ROM image turns up some interesting stuff) > > THE LCD looks as if it might be 200 or 256 by 64 pixels (40 characters > by 8 lines?) - I haven't powered it up yet because (a) the NiCd battery > is flat and (b) I have yet to work out what voltage to feed it (3.5mm > jack with tip negative). All I know is that it must be smoothed DC, > since there is a diode but no smoothing capacitor in the input stage. Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The HX20 had no other power regulator. (Yes, there is a zener diode across the lines, but that's just protection if the NiCd goes O/C) If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be arround 50mA. > Philip. -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 18 10:28:17 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707188719.AA871925726@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no > > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) > > Nice!!!.... Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700 or two...) > > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 > > Very nice... > > > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 > > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM > > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip > > microcomputer. > > Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly > related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something > for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think > is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a > ROM image turns up some interesting stuff) 'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse, gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303 flavour. > Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP > certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the > ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input stage is something like: Diode Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+ | 56R | \ | |C / 82R | |/ \ +-/\/\/-+--| NPN / | |\ | _ |E | Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??) | | GND GND I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it! If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... > Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the > NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The ^^^^^ I take it you mean wouldn't > If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up > towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop > if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be > arround 50mA. Worth a try. Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 04:40:06 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds In-Reply-To: <9707188719.AA871925726@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > > Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP > > certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the > > ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). > > Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input > stage is something like: > > Diode > Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+ > | 56R | \ > | |C / 82R > | |/ \ > +-/\/\/-+--| NPN / > | |\ | > _ |E | > Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??) > | | > GND GND > > I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the > regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it! That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you to buy more expensive battery packs) > > If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, > maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... Remember that you'll be charging this thing (probably) with the machine turned off, so it's not going to be taking much current). > > > Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the > > NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The > ^^^^^ > I take it you mean wouldn't Of course I did. Sorry for the typo. > Philip. -tony From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 18 11:06:03 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707188719.AA871928069@compsci.powertech.co.uk> [My ascii circuit diagram] > That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have > expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of > machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you > to buy more expensive battery packs) It does to me, too! By "to get you to buy more expensive battery packs" do you mean that the packs are more expensive, or that they wear out faster? > > If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, > > maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... > > Remember that you'll be charging this thing (probably) with the machine > turned off, so it's not going to be taking much current). Good point. 50mA then (8 < V < 12) based on the 14 hour rate on the battery label. Looks like 9V is about right... There is also a power switch but I haven't found where it connects yet. (Not in series with the circuit I just drew AFAIK) Next task, I suppose, is to trace that part of the circuit. Difficult, because most of PCB tracks are underneath LCD module which is difficult to remove... Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Mon Aug 18 08:48:38 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds In-Reply-To: <9707188719.AA871928069@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > [My ascii circuit diagram] > > > That looks like a voltage regualtor, which is strange, since I'd have > > expected a constant current charger for the NiCd. Of course a lot of > > machines just use a resistor to limit the charging current (and to get you > > to buy more expensive battery packs) > > It does to me, too! By "to get you to buy more expensive battery packs" > do you mean that the packs are more expensive, or that they wear out > faster? I mean more {expensive battery packs}. The packs themselves are the same price (but more than the cells that make them up), but they don't last too long. Of course it's normally possible to make up suitable replacement packs from individual cells. One of my HX-20's has a homebrew pack in it (4 2/3C cells, I think), and my RK05's have retraction batteries that happen to be used in cordless telephones. They were a lot cheaper than the genuine DEC part, and work just as well. > Good point. 50mA then (8 < V < 12) based on the 14 hour rate on the > battery label. Looks like 9V is about right... As I said, try it. An adjustable PSU is very useful here, but good ones are not cheap. IMHO a good bench PSU is a very useful piece of equipment when restoring a classic computer - more useful than say a logic analyser. You can power up odd sections, test machines without repairing a defective PSU first, test/align motors, lamps and solenoids (and, for example, make sure an optical tape reader will work at a lower lamp intensity), etc. I like the 30V 10A Velleman one that Maplin sell. It's expensive (\pounds 230.00 as a kit), but it works well. > Philip. -tony From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 18 12:09:23 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: RA81 Message-ID: Umm... I just noticed something. On the READY lamp, where the drive number is supposed to be, mine is blank. There's nothing behind the ready cover. No metal in it. Does that mean drive 0? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 14:02:29 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: RA81 In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 18, 97 12:09:23 pm Message-ID: <9708181802.AA28639@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 816 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/ed4b9c7b/attachment-0001.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Mon Aug 18 12:53:53 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: HP 9831A Message-ID: <199708181847.LAA27103@mx2.u.washington.edu> > I've got a little reference card for HP9830A Basic. Get me your postal > address and I'll send you a copy. Thank you, it looks as if I'll be unloading it. Perhaps he who gets it would be interested. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 13:50:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer Update References: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> Message-ID: <33F8996E.75185351@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine has several Heathkit Analog Computers and was thinking > about selling them. Apparently the larger one was used in a college and > has I just got email back from him so I forwarded all the email I have gotten. I'll post his email address this afternoon when I hear back from him about the messages he already has. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 15:17:50 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Amoute Computer??? References: <9708181802.AA28639@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <33F8ADED.8DAEC218@rain.org> While at the Hamfest this last weekend, one of the vendors gave me what looks like an MS-DOS luggable with the name "Amoute" on the front. Unfortunately, the back portion of the case is missing, it has one broken key, and it only has a video card installed. Anyone heard of this thing or know anything about it? Thanks. From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 15:30:06 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Heathkit Analog Computer Update References: <33F4FBBC.A5C9FBF0@rain.org> <33F8996E.75185351@rain.org> Message-ID: <33F8B0CD.AD7D0A31@rain.org> Just got his message back and he has copies of the email I've received about the Heathkit Computer. His name is Roger Christianson and his email address is rchristi@sou.edu. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 18 18:18:26 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? Message-ID: What's an M7165? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 19:29:17 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 18, 97 06:18:26 pm Message-ID: <9708182329.AA29950@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 77 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/34c48443/attachment-0001.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 18 18:34:06 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Does anyone else find this hilariously funny? > ---------- > From: Tim Shoppa > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Monday, August 18, 1997 5:29 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: What's an M7165? > > > What's an M7165? > > One half of a KDA50. The other half is a M7164. > > Tim. > From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 18 18:39:34 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Does anyone else find this hilariously funny? > Well, it's not in my DEC book. I was just going through stuff. Oh, and I have RSTS-E and the 11/44 diags on 9-track tape. Which I have no drive for. Anyone wanna take a shot at putting these on DECtape IIs? :) From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 19:07:54 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: 1. After getting slightly sidetracked on the way to Bruce's a couple weeks ago - I'm back ;). 2. Apple III experts - what's the difference between an A3M01 and an A3M02? I'm assuming 01 is the "drop-fix" motherboard and 02 is the fixed version. Does anyone have software for a MS Softcard III? 3. Do you need Apple II parts? I have too many. I have II+s and IIe's (working and not) lots of Monitor III's. Assorted manuals for Apple II and III. Tons of disk drives. If you're looking for something and I have it it's yours for the price of shipping. I have a number of badly broken system which will ultimately be scrapped but I'll be pulling pieces so... I'll eventually put together a list but I need to make some room now so just ask. I'll also be trekking down the coast 2nd week of September so if you live along I5 in OR/WA or 101 in CA I might be able to deliver. 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If you've got nothing better to do ;). Bill -------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp From dastar at crl.com Mon Aug 18 19:27:51 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > 1. After getting slightly sidetracked on the way to Bruce's a couple > weeks ago - I'm back ;). Welcome back. > 2. Apple III experts - what's the difference between an A3M01 and an > A3M02? I'm assuming 01 is the "drop-fix" motherboard and 02 is the > fixed version. Does anyone have software for a MS Softcard III? Jeff Hellige does. You may want to write him directly as I don't think he's reading the list for the next several weeks. His address is jeffh@unix.aardvarkol.com. > list but I need to make some room now so just ask. I'll also be > trekking down the coast 2nd week of September so if you live along > I5 in OR/WA or 101 in CA I might be able to deliver. Stop by for a spell when you get to the bay area. > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > you've got nothing better to do ;). This would make a great workshop at the Vintage Computer Festival. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 19:54:57 1997 From: bill at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: Can anyone help this guy out? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500 From: Jim Duchek To: bill@booster.bothell.washington.edu Subject: Computers Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you tell me what they are? Thanks. Jim Duchek jimduchek@primary.net From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 18 20:18:28 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15D5D@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 18 20:26:16 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970819012616.0067a840@pop3.concentric.net> I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ?? At 10:28 AM 8/18/97 BST, you wrote: >> > I bought: A TI-99/4A (Not as lucky as Roger M - I paid L12 with no >> > joysticks, manuals or cartridges, but I did get the UHF thingy) >> >> Nice!!!.... > >Yes, my first TI computer (I have a broken calculator and a Silent 700 >or two...) > >> > But the real find: A British Telecom Microscribe for L1 >> >> Very nice... >> >> > This object is a solidly built sub-notebook (about 7 in square by 1 >> > thick) with a dinky keyboard and a palmtop-sized LCD. It has 32K of RAM >> > and 16K of ROM, and the processor is an Hitachi HD63A03XP single chip >> > microcomputer. >> >> Is that the only processor? It sounds as though it might be distantly >> related to a Thorn-EMI machine called a Liberator which had a 63-something >> for I/O and a Z80 running a CP/M like OS (or at least, that what I think >> is inside it - the ROM is (C) Digital Research, and running strings on a >> ROM image turns up some interesting stuff) > >'fraid so. Indeed, it is the only chip with >28 pins (apart from the >flatpacks on the back of the LCD). IC master, just to be perverse, >gives various 6301 and 6305 variants in that series, but nothing of 6303 >flavour. > >> Not so. A lot of machines use the NiCd as the smoothing component. HP >> certainly did in just about all of their more recent NiCd calculators (the >> ones that use the 8V 50mA AC charger). > >Interesting. I haven't found where the battery gets in, but the input >stage is something like: > > Diode >Ring --+--/\/\/-|>|-+-----+ > | 56R | \ > | |C / 82R > | |/ \ > +-/\/\/-+--| NPN / > | |\ | > _ |E | >Tip--+ Zener A +-----+--- +5V? to rest of machine (??) > | | > GND GND > >I would guess the battery could well do any smoothing downstream of the >regulator, but I'd still like to see some upstream of it! > >If the machine draws 60mA, minimum voltage at input is around 9V, >maximum around 13V, so I suppose I could try 10V and see what happens... > >> Some, like the Epson HX20 even used the fact that the voltage across the >> NiCd would go above 5V to limit the supply voltage to the chips. The > ^^^^^ >I take it you mean wouldn't > >> If you have an adjustable PSU, apply about 5V, and then crank it up >> towards 9V (I'd guess that's what it takes), monitor the 5V line and stop >> if it rises above (say) 5.5V. See what current flows - it should be >> arround 50mA. > >Worth a try. > >Philip. > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 18 20:38:30 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970819013830.0068faec@pop3.concentric.net> If you e-mail me a fax number I can fax you the pages, there are 44 pages in the manual showing the many different settings. At 05:54 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone help this guy out? > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500 >From: Jim Duchek >To: bill@booster.bothell.washington.edu >Subject: Computers > >Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm >assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the >jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you >tell me what they are? Thanks. > > >Jim Duchek >jimduchek@primary.net > > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 18 21:32:22 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... References: Message-ID: <33F905B6.A5D46FD@rain.org> Bill Whitson wrote: > -------------------------------------------------------- > Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator > bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu > CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp Just thought I would mention that the above URL doesn't seem to be valid as I get an error message indicating it has no DNS entry. From danjo at xnet.com Mon Aug 18 21:51:45 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <33F905B6.A5D46FD@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > Bill Whitson wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator > > bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu > > CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp > > Just thought I would mention that the above URL doesn't seem to be valid > as I get an error message indicating it has no DNS entry. Bill is probably still woozy from the pain killers 8-) http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp Is the correct? active URL. BC From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 21:59:20 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <33F905B6.A5D46FD@rain.org> Message-ID: That's what I get for updating my .sig Main campus keeps dumping my servers out of DNS. Grumble. Try this ;) --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > Bill Whitson wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Bill Whitson Classic Computer List Operator > > bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu > > CCL Website: http://haliotis.u.washington.edu/classiccmp > > Just thought I would mention that the above URL doesn't seem to be valid > as I get an error message indicating it has no DNS entry. > > From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 22:07:10 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970819013830.0068faec@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: > If you e-mail me a fax number I can fax you the pages, there are 44 pages in > the manual showing the many different settings. Whew. Hopefully Kai's summary did the job. If he asks for more info I'll point him your way ;). Thanks Bill --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > At 05:54 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Can anyone help this guy out? > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:28:19 -0500 > >From: Jim Duchek > >To: bill@booster.bothell.washington.edu > >Subject: Computers > > > >Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm > >assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the > >jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you > >tell me what they are? Thanks. > > > > > >Jim Duchek > >jimduchek@primary.net > > > > > > > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 23:29:43 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Aug 18, 97 04:34:06 pm Message-ID: <9708190329.AA30192@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/d45b0ddc/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 18 23:34:02 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 18, 97 06:39:34 pm Message-ID: <9708190334.AA30354@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/41250625/attachment-0001.ksh From indavis at juno.com Mon Aug 18 20:48:15 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: New Classic Computer Rescue List Location References: Message-ID: <19970818.210516.9894.3.indavis@juno.com> Due to the unfortunate death of my isp, I have been forced to change the url of the Classic Computer Rescue List. It seems that here in Austin, you can't throw a rock and not hit an internet service provider, but finding a good one seems to be a little harder than just tossing a rock. Here is the new url: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html I have to add a couple people to the list, but I have been busy lately, and had to concentrate on getting all of my web pages off of a really sick server. On the discussion of classic computers, does anyone have some Analog magazines from the 86-87 time frame. I am trying to follow some of the 'Boot Camp' articles (machine language tutorial). The problem that I have is, they all build off of a beginning article, and you'll never guess what I am missing. They are articles on player missile graphics in machine language. If anyone has them, I would really appreciate getting in contact with them. I believe what I am looking for is in the July-October issues. I have November 86 - January 87, which are the last 3 in the series. Thanks. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html From william at ans.net Mon Aug 18 23:55:00 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15D5D@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708190455.AA28442@interlock.ans.net> > For Switch #1: > For Switch #2 (some obscure combos not typed in) It seems to me that one of the sacred switches will put the machine into an endless loop of reboots - just after the self tests, etc., the machine would boot again. I did not know about this, and had a machine that had this "problem". A trip to the library solved it. William Donzelli william@ans.net From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 19 01:25:11 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: New Classic Computer Rescue List Location In-Reply-To: indavis@juno.com's message of Mon, 18 Aug 1997 20:48:15 o5 References: <19970818.210516.9894.3.indavis@juno.com> Message-ID: <199708190625.XAA04476@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Isaac Davis wrote: > On the discussion of classic computers, does anyone have some Analog > magazines from the 86-87 time frame. I am trying to follow some of the > 'Boot Camp' articles (machine language tutorial). The problem that I > have is, they all build off of a beginning article, and you'll never > guess what I am missing. They are articles on player missile graphics in > machine language. If anyone has them, I would really appreciate getting > in contact with them. I believe what I am looking for is in the > July-October issues. I have November 86 - January 87, which are the last > 3 in the series. Time for a show of hands: how many of us are going to LoneStarCon in San Antonio over Labor Day weekend? Isaac, if you haven't found these by say 27 August, please let us know so we know to be looking for them in the huckster room.... -Frank McConnell From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Aug 19 09:03:23 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: This Weekend's Finds Message-ID: <9707198720.AA872007086@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > I can get lots of TI 99 items, tell what you are looking for ?? Thanks, John. I am looking for: Cartridges (I have none), preferably not of arcade-style games unless particularly significant Manuals, in particular pinout and levels of video port so that I can connect a monitor of some description... Also, details of what sort of joystick I need to connect... Philip. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 03:57:42 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > you've got nothing better to do ;). Count me in on this - if I can figure out _why_ I do things. The latter is actually a big problem. Most of the time I do things 'because that's obviously the thing to do' - i.e. I've done it many times before, and there are good reasons why (for example) the line output transistor is the big one on the heatsink next to the flyback - but it's difficult to remember this when you're writing a how-to. Disk drive alignment : I've read many documents (and even a few books) on how to do this without an alignment disk (typically by using a commercial software master disk , finding where the signal falls off in each direction , and setting the head midway between the two point). Without exception, every method has failed. IMHO the only way to align a drive is with the proper (expensive) alignment CE disk. 5.25" and 3.5" alignment disks are still available (but expect to pay $100 a time...). I can't find 3" (Amstrad, etc) or 8" alignment disks anywhere, alas... One day I'm going to rip apart an old 8" drive and put a micrometer on the head assembly. I can then (hopefuly) record my own alignment disks using a bit of simple electronics. > > Bill -tony From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Aug 19 00:55:59 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199708190955.FAA28933@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! > > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > > you've got nothing better to do ;). Composite of any kind are no difference TV has it too internally! That would be wonderful when TV is very high quality tube/circuit board to begin with. I think that someone would cut in byond the Tuner for composite. Aligning the drives is touch and go, once in a while I was successful. The rate is much better on screw type because it's easy to tweak until it fails either side and plant it in exactly midway. I always recheck it with series of formatted disks from fresh drives finding the both sides to get enough consistent results. Worst drives to align is split-belt type. That is far hard to do. Most of time on these screw types distrance between scratch marks is about less than 5 or so degrees. Lots of drives are all compatiable mechanically and most of time far easier to find a good used similar brand and swap the logic board that still works to a good mechanical drive. Amiga 880k drives are really PC 720k drives with bit of differences in logic board so the mechanical drive swapping the boards to another is good idea. The pinout is very close too but I still have not found the HOW-TO to hack the standard PC 720k drive for Amigas. BTW, I know that compaq SLT series laptop always use Toshiba drives which means you can replace the worn out mechanical part with good ones but still keeping the logic board. > The latter is actually a big problem. Most of the time I do things > 'because that's obviously the thing to do' - i.e. I've done it many times > before, and there are good reasons why (for example) the line output > transistor is the big one on the heatsink next to the flyback - but it's > difficult to remember this when you're writing a how-to. There's those crankerous capacitors too they does kill the HOT if the signal is not cleaned up by those little capacitors. And capacitors are used often to shape the waveforms to keep the tube image square and nice. Better Grab the Bob's ESR meter, it spots the baddies every time capacitance meter missed and excellent meter for fractions of a ohm or less as well. That is useful in hi frequency area where ESR values is important. I'm trying to get that ESR meter too since I fix tons of switching PSU and monitors because it's so inexpensive. About 60 USD and if anyone would like to, I have web url address. > Disk drive alignment : I've read many documents (and even a few books) on > how to do this without an alignment disk (typically by using a commercial > software master disk , finding where the signal falls off in each > direction , and setting the head midway between the two point). Without > exception, every method has failed. IMHO the only way to align a drive is > with the proper (expensive) alignment CE disk. BIG LOUD OUCH! I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes run to pay off in due time. :) > > 5.25" and 3.5" alignment disks are still available (but expect to pay $100 > a time...). I can't find 3" (Amstrad, etc) or 8" alignment disks anywhere, > alas... > > One day I'm going to rip apart an old 8" drive and put a micrometer on the > head assembly. I can then (hopefuly) record my own alignment disks using a > bit of simple electronics. Well, better renew the mechanicals to assure tight tolences! Screw type does wear out especially the pin that rides in screw groove. Not that hard if you can grab the pin real good firmly and pull and rotate it 180 and reinstall. And lot of 3.5" especially new ones are plain plastic bearings sliding on the smooth steel rods is the worst wear. Those ones who uses bushings fares better. All those oil and grease should be cheaned out and relubed again. And BIGGEST hint hint HINT, the belt driven drives is still made for those notebooks. Gak, I thought belt driven spindle is really no longer in production or in new design, OH BOY, what a biggest mistake! (Just fixed one recently.) Just in case anyone here, look into your notebook and look around the (purplish coloured) hub, you should see the black band, that's belt wound around it, spun by the elcheapo PM motor. When you work on one someday you will find there's is one fixed naked ball bearing idler for the belt. Jason D. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 05:59:07 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708190955.FAA28933@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > > > 4. Classic Computer HOWTO's. I've been sitting at home for a week > > > inventing things to do and started writing a how to document detailing > > > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > > > Anyway, seems like a cool idea for those of you who know how to do things > > > to detail them in a howto and help improve everyone's know-how. People > > > keep asking, for example, how to convert TV to composite output. If > > > you've got nothing better to do ;). > Composite of any kind are no difference TV has it too internally! > That would be wonderful when TV is very high quality tube/circuit > board to begin with. I think that someone would cut in byond the > Tuner for composite. If the TV has an isolated chassis (even some modern ones have the chassis connected to the AC line!), then you can feed composite video in after the video detector. A service manual for the TV and/or data sheets on the chips in it will indicate a likely point for this. On the other hand, very few home computers use need the bandwidth, so it's easier to use a UHF modulator if you're feeding a TV from a composite source or a tuner board (ripped from an old VCR) if you want to drive a composite monitor from a home computer TV output. Of course you can nearly always find signals inside the home computer that are either composite video or that can be trivially combined to make composite video. Some people like to keep their classics in factory condition, but I personally don't mind simple reversably modifications if it makes the machine more useful. > > Aligning the drives is touch and go, once in a while I was Given the alignment disk and a good 'scope it's a lot easier. You are not looking for points either side of the right alignment - you adjust the head position until the waveform looks right and clamp it up. > > The latter is actually a big problem. Most of the time I do things > > 'because that's obviously the thing to do' - i.e. I've done it many times > > before, and there are good reasons why (for example) the line output > > transistor is the big one on the heatsink next to the flyback - but it's > > difficult to remember this when you're writing a how-to. > There's those crankerous capacitors too they does kill the HOT if the > signal is not cleaned up by those little capacitors. And capacitors That's exactly the point. I'd not forget the nth harmonic tuning caps if I had the chassis in front of me, but I might well do so in a How-to. Ditto things like checking for shorts on the LV lines produced from the flyback (which often feed half the stages in the monitor) > area where ESR values is important. I'm trying to get that ESR meter > too since I fix tons of switching PSU and monitors because it's so > inexpensive. About 60 USD and if anyone would like to, I have web > url address. Anybody know a UK source for this. I do a lot of SMPS and monitor repairs (both classic computers and modern ones), and it would be useful. There's always ARD's quick test for large capacitors, which I hesitate to mention, but which I used to sort out my 11/44 PSU when it was failing. It goes like this : 1) Charge up the cap from a 9V battery, observing polarity. Connect it for a few seconds then disconnect it. 2) Wait about 5 seconds 3) Short the capacitor terminals with a screwdriver. Anything over about 1000uF should make quite a spark. If it doesn't, it's either leaky or has high ESR and should be replaced. I had a 5000uF capacitor in the 11/44 that tested on my meter (using the 'balistic method' - connect it on to an analogue ohmmeter and see how large the charging 'kick' is, compare to other capacitors) as about 4700uF, but which had a very high ESR. > I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes > run to pay off in due time. :) It's not that bad. You only need 4 disks total - one of each size. They're no more expensive than the other test gear you really should have. If somebody could find a UK source of 8" alignment disks then I'd buy one _now!_ I was lucky in a way. A place where I was working was decomissioning a lot of PDP11 stuff, and of course I went (with a number of other people) to rescue it all. The nice thing was that they'd done all their own repairs, and they were also giving away the extender boards, test cables, _and_ alignment disks (RK05) and skewmaster 9-track alignment tapes. Needless to say I grabbed all that stuff. I was _given_ a Dysan 5.25" alignment disk a few months back :-). > > One day I'm going to rip apart an old 8" drive and put a micrometer on the > > head assembly. I can then (hopefuly) record my own alignment disks using a > > bit of simple electronics. > Well, better renew the mechanicals to assure tight tolences! Screw > type does wear out especially the pin that rides in screw groove. I was planning on removing the pin altogether and letting the head carriage move freely over the leadscrew. Then fit a micrometer head and a spring to pull the head assy agains the end of the micrometer. I should be able to get about 1" of calibrated head movement. > Not that hard if you can grab the pin real good firmly and pull and > rotate it 180 and reinstall. And lot of 3.5" especially new ones > are plain plastic bearings sliding on the smooth steel rods is the > worst wear. Those ones who uses bushings fares better. > All those oil and grease should be cheaned out and relubed again. The service manual for my 3.5" drive (Teac FD235-something) specifies lubrication instructions. I thought I was the only person to follow them... > Jason D. -tony From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Aug 19 06:34:38 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Apple? Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> I purchased a batch of old micros which included 3 Apples, 1 ][E and two that are not identified. The motherboards are longer than on the "E" and extend under the keyboard. The keyboard has a white key labled upr and lwr case, pwr. in the lower left corner, and the rear of the case has U shaped cutouts instead of the type of openings on the "E" and "+". I havent been able to find "Apple" on the case or motherboard but the power supply seems identical to that in the "E" and "+". Can anyone suggest what I have? Thanks Charlie Fox From carl.friend at stoneweb.com Tue Aug 19 07:35:03 1997 From: carl.friend at stoneweb.com (Carl R. Friend) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:51:45 -0500 (CDT), Brett wrote this: > http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp ^^^^^^^^ Why do I always parse this as "halitosis"? :-) ______________________________________________________________________ | | | | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 | |________________________________________________|_____________________| From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Tue Aug 19 07:43:31 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <199708190843_MC2-1D86-646A@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >A TI-99/4A (works) with RF Modulator, Joysticks, and 20 cartridges... $5.< Were you soliciting information on the TI? The joysticks aren't Atari-standard, so you're lucky those were in the package. Cartridge-wise, look through your haul particularly for Extended BASIC, Disk Manager II and Terminal Emulator II. The first is critical if you even get an Peripheral Expansion Box ("PEB"); the second is helpful if you get a PEB. The third is useful if you ever get the voice synthesizer (or of course, if you want to try a modem). If you have an Adventure cartridge, it won't do you much good unless you also got the accompanying tape. >Tho this isn't perfectly legit, I also picked up a Sony AC/DC (with 3 types of DC!) 5" color TV, which I plan to use as a monitor / portable monitor for one (or more) of my CoCo's. (The TI didn't like it... :-( < No clue on why . . . . >Question: One of the cartridges has a triangular picture-hanger rivited to the case... would this be some sort of store demo or something?< No way of telling, short of inserting it and seeing what pops up. Gil Parrish 107765.1161@compuserve.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 19 08:10:01 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: <199708191310.AA11023@world.std.com> <> I knew about that too, Those disks is too far expensive for few fixes <> run to pay off in due time. :) < Message-ID: > <_now!_ > > Dec diagnostic disks that havent been rewritten are generally very close to > nominal alignment. But as you said below, you need offset tracks to do an alignment properly. Trying to find the points where the amplitude falls off and then setting the head midway between them has never worked for me. > > > While you can do this there is one problem. Alignment disks are recorded > with a narrower than normal trackwdith and also stagger tracks (recorded > with offset either side of true) for alignment use. Yes, I'd realised that. I was planning on making a circuit that triggered off the index pulse and recorded 'bursts' of (say) 250kHz pulses on the disk. A bit of logic would let me record a track offset towards the edge of the disk, twiddle the micrometer to move the head to the same offset towards the spindle and then record bursts between the ones I'd just put down. Now align the target drive so that both types of burst are replayed at the same amplitude. > > Another tool you need is a source of 125/250/500khz pulses that conform to > FM timing (single density) for writing patterns. This is something you can > build out a handful of counters and a 4mhz clock osc. That's somewhat trivial to build IMHO... > Over the years I've found that if the drive needs alignment it's wise to > look for other problems like spindle and motor bearings that are tired The bearings are AFAIK standard parts, and can be easily replaced. > or head to actuator wear that will make for sloppy operation. Head > alignment can signal other problems. I retired a SA800 for spindle > bearings because the thing would not reliably read (had a new in the box > spare). Generally I've found that it's best to put aside those drives in > favor of a better one stealing the logic from it as needed. The only time I The older SA800's used entirely standard logic, so it's not worth taking parts from an old one. SA850's used custom chips in the read/write circuit, and later SA800's (according to my service manual) used one big custom chip :-(. I guess then you have to get spares from old drives. > would fix it is when there is really no other choice. Unless doing a museum Getting _new_ 8" drives is next-to-impossible, and if you use a second-hand one, you've got no proof it's better than the one you're replacing unless you test it with the alignment disk (after checking it handles a scratch disk correctly, of course...). > style restore I've found some drives are better dumped (sa400s in general) > in favor of other better drives of the era. The less said about that SA400 the better.... > > > Allison -tony From gram at cnct.com Tue Aug 19 08:51:09 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote: > On Mon, 18 Aug 1997 21:51:45 -0500 (CDT), Brett wrote this: > > http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > ^^^^^^^^ > Why do I always parse this as "halitosis"? :-) Same reason I do. It's the closest string that's a familiar word. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From dhq at juno.com Tue Aug 19 08:34:50 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: video games Message-ID: <19970819.093352.2167.0.dhq@juno.com> While scouring the garage sales this weekend I found 2 old video games, an Atari Pong and a Magnavox Odyssey. They both work, and I could NOT pass them up at the sellers asking price! Hopefully someone else collects these older games. If anybody knows of a list or web site I would appreciate the info. P.S. My T/S 1000 hasn't been sold yet, I guess it is not yet a collectors piece. Regard, David Quackenbush dhq@juno.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 19 10:00:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 19, 97 02:22:37 pm Message-ID: <9708191400.AA30757@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970819/bf7d9071/attachment-0001.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 19 09:13:29 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... Message-ID: <199708191413.AA04940@world.std.com> <> Getting _new_ 8" drives is next-to-impossible < and 360k 5.25 on the front pannel makes for a fairly roomy system. That system has a 2meg ramdisk so it can boot and copy the floppies to ramdisk for speed. Advantages include if the media fails pop the cover and put in a new disk and it's less likely to crash the disk if dropped. The only other storage I keep around is the TU58 dectapeII as it's serial and can be plugged into anything that can do RS232/423. At 256k a cart its not big or fast. What I'd like to find out how to do is use the floppy interfaced tapes for non-PC systems. These drives in the smaller storage sizes can be found cheap and even new ones aren't too expensive. Allison From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 09:57:33 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <9708190329.AA30192@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > That's what happens when I answer a question as briefly as > possible :-). I had about 10 seconds to run out of my office > and catch a bus home when I sent that off! > > Now the long explanation: A KDA50 is a Q-bus version of the UDA50. > Oooh! Good thing! I was about to drop that in a Unibus! That means maybe the 11/23 can start RSTS-E? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 09:58:21 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <9708190334.AA30354@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > A 2400' reel of 1600 bpi 9-track is about 40 Megabytes. That's > equivalent to 160 DECTape II carts. I think you'd be better off finding > yourself a 9-track drive! Everyone should have one - I now have > sixteen such drives (800/1600, 1600, or 1600/6250, or 7-track) > in my house. > I just got one. More later. From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 10:36:06 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: video games In-Reply-To: <19970819.093352.2167.0.dhq@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, David H Quackenbush wrote: > While scouring the garage sales this weekend I found 2 old video games, > an Atari Pong and a Magnavox Odyssey. They both work, and I could NOT > pass them up at the sellers asking price! Hopefully someone else collects > these older games. If anybody knows of a list or web site I would > appreciate the info. Is your Magnavox Odyssey the actual "Odyssey" or is it "Odyssey2 Microprocessor"? If its just the plain old "Odyssey" with the TV overlays and the carthridges that have huge edge connectors then you've got yourself a nice find there. Otherwise the Odyssey2 is pretty run of the mill. The Atari Pong is a nice find. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 10:30:53 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:49 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I purchased a batch of old micros which included 3 Apples, 1 ][E and two > that are not identified. The motherboards are longer than on the "E" and > extend under the keyboard. The keyboard has a white key labled upr and lwr > case, pwr. in the lower left corner, and the rear of the case has U shaped > cutouts instead of the type of openings on the "E" and "+". > I havent been able to find "Apple" on the case or motherboard but the > power supply seems identical to that in the "E" and "+". Can anyone suggest > what I have? Sounds like an Apple ][ or ][+ with the name tag missing. Either that or its a clone ][ or ][+. I don't understand your description of "upr and lwr case" but the original ][s didn't have lower case, so if that's the case then it's most like a clone. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 10:41:08 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Looking for Doug Spence Message-ID: Doug Spence, please e-mail me so I have your current e-mail address. I tried e-mailing you the images of the Apple3 system disks and it bounced. If anyone else wants ShrinkIt archives of the Apple /// system disks let me know and I'll e-mail them off to you. You'll need an Apple that can run ShrinkIt (//e, //c, //gs, ???) and a copy of ShrinkIt (can be found on the net, public domain AFAIK) to transfer them to 5.25" floppies. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 11:03:00 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have absolutely no idea. It's plenty large, though... There's two boxes. One is the drive, the other is ??? The other is lighter than the drive. I'll drag it in here first. The front panel on the box says: HP 1000 A900 HEWLETT PACKARD. It appears to fit into a DEC rack... The back panel looks like this: +-----------------------------------------------------+ | ==== ==== ==== ==== === * === ==== ==== ==== ==== | | ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | === ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== === | | | | | | +-----+ +----+ | | | ST1 | | ST2| +----+ +------+ | | | | | | |ST3 | | ST4 | | | +-----+ +----+ +----+ * +------+ | | +-------------------------------------------------+ | | +--------------------OPEN SPOT--------------------+ | | SW1 PG1 DG1 SW2 PG2 | +-----------------------------------------------------+ Explanation: * means screw ==== means cooling vent. There are cards in a backplane behind these. Removing the screws allows access to the cards. ST1: Sticker one. says "Hewlett Packard" ST2: Sticker two. FCC rules stuff. ST3: Sticker three. Warranty sticker. ST4: Guess. says "Hewlett-packard. Product 2139A. Options O14. serial #. SW1: Switch. backup ena/dis PG1: Plug 1. 12-pin square plug. DG1: Diagram of the plug. EXT BAT + | MLT | +5M | -5 EXT BAT - | O1 | PON | +12 CMN | O2 | PFN | -12 SW2: on/off line PG2: Power Plug. That's all the back. Now for the drive! God, this is heavy! Too big to ascii, I'll have to describe it. It says "hp 7970E" Buttons a re LOAD, REWIND, ONLINE, RESET, 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF Connector is a small printer-plug looking thing (Like the plug on your printer, but smaller. I do have a scratch tape, how does one get the tape into these? Any info is appreciated. From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 11:43:31 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191413.AA04940@world.std.com> Message-ID: > doesn't work, you need the narrower write head. What you will see is > the additive components of the signals where the head overlaps the tracks. Not at all. What I was planning on recording (on a totally blank disk) was : ==== ==== ==== ==== ==== Where the ==== is a burst of data and the centre-line of the desired track was along the middle of the 2 patterns. The read head output will only reply the 2 bursts at the same amplitude (assuming they're sufficiently separated, which will take some experimentation) if the head is following that centre-line. > The can be the sum or the signals, if not in sync there will also be > differences due the phases at a given instant. Also do not discount the There's no way the head will be reading bits of the 2 recorded tracks at the same time. So cancellation does not apply. > effects of the tunnel erase portion of the head slicing off the adjacent > offset tracks. Firstly I'll be gating the WG signal, so I'll not be erasing my carefully-recorded track, and secondly, I am probably using custom electronics so I can remove the erase signal altogether if it causes problems. > > Sometimes it's easier to swap a known board that troubleshoot. Hmm.... By the time I've found where the fault is (i.e. proved it to be on a certain board), I'm pretty close to the defective component anyway. The SA800 is not exactly difficult to trouble-shoot, and I do have the official service manual. > > > True but, there are used and then there are USED. The later being one thats > seen umpty years of 24x7. I know of only one UK supplier, and they want \pounds 295.00 (!) (nearly $500.00) per drive. And my experience of this company, based on a friend buying a 'used but good 5.25" drive' which came with a worn-out spindle motor, a fault on the speed control board and another on the logic board means that I'd rather not deal with them. Quite simply, it's cheaper and less hassle to rebuild what I have. > Allison -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 11:51:08 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191439.AA27928@world.std.com> Message-ID: > Nearly every system I have has been migrated toward 3.5" drives or up > scaled 5.25s where possible. Exceptions are the Vt180 where compatability I've added 5.25" 1.2Mbyte drives to a number of 8" systems (mainly so I can exchange disks with my PC), but I keep the 8" drive operational for a number of reasons : a) Most software kits for these machines come on 8" floppies b) The disks are a lot more reliable. I've had a lot more 5.25" disks fail than 8", and even more 3.5". I am talking about branded disks in correctly maintained drives, BTW c) The drives are easier to maintain. I've read the service manual for the SA800 and SA850 and also the Teac FD55-GFR (a typical 5.25" drive) and I know which I'd rather keep running. > The only other storage I keep around is the TU58 dectapeII as it's serial > and can be plugged into anything that can do RS232/423. At 256k a cart its > not big or fast. Those are rather fun. One day I must write the programs to drive it from my HP48 calculator... Acutally, is there any Linux/Unix code to talk to the drive out there anywhere (free..). It would be a reasonable way to transfer short programs from a PC to a PDP11 not in the same building. > > What I'd like to find out how to do is use the floppy interfaced tapes > for non-PC systems. These drives in the smaller storage sizes can be found > cheap and even new ones aren't too expensive. Isn't there a QIC standard for that? Last time I looked, the QIC standards were free (some were even on a web page), and it was legal to make copies of them. Just about the only thing that was illegal was distributing modified versions, which makes a lot of sense. > Allison -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 11:58:48 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A guess only : > > I have absolutely no idea. It's plenty large, though... > > There's two boxes. One is the drive, the other is ??? > The other is lighter than the drive. > I'll drag it in here first. > > The front panel on the box says: > HP 1000 A900 I suspect this is an HP1000-series processor. Exactly what it is depends on what cards are in it. > HEWLETT PACKARD. > > It appears to fit into a DEC rack... Standard 19" rack, I guess. A lot of stuff (computers, peripherals, test gear,etc) fits that standard rack. There are also (much rarer) wider racks for things that just can't fit into 19" - like big monitors. > It says "hp 7970E" I think that's a standard HP 9-track tape drive. > > Buttons a re LOAD, REWIND, ONLINE, RESET, 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF > Connector is a small printer-plug looking thing (Like the plug on your > printer, but smaller. If it's a 24 pin connector (12 pins on each side) then it's almost certainly HPIB/GPIB/IEEE-488 (all basically the same interface). HP used this _hardware standard_ on a lot of their peripherals including disk drives, tape drives, printers, test gear, etc. The same interface is available for many other machines from HP calculators (!) to large minis. A PC interface card is certainly made (by a number of companies, not just HP), but won't be cheap. > > I do have a scratch tape, how does one get the tape into these? Well, I've not used that particular drive, but if it's a manual loader, you open the front door, put the tape on the empty hub, thread it up (there's normally a diagram inside), close the door and press 'Load' If it's an autoloader (like the DEC TS-05) then you open the flap (you may need power-on to do this), put the tape in the slot, close the flap and press the load button. > > Any info is appreciated. > > > -tony From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Aug 19 08:19:02 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: References: <199708191439.AA27928@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199708191718.NAA29638@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! > > Nearly every system I have has been migrated toward 3.5" drives or up > > scaled 5.25s where possible. Exceptions are the Vt180 where compatability > > I've added 5.25" 1.2Mbyte drives to a number of 8" systems (mainly so I > can exchange disks with my PC), but I keep the 8" drive operational for a > number of reasons : > > a) Most software kits for these machines come on 8" floppies > > b) The disks are a lot more reliable. I've had a lot more 5.25" disks fail > than 8", and even more 3.5". I am talking about branded disks in correctly > maintained drives, BTW Tony, well, what's about the Fuji disks? I abused them and used it too much and they do last and keep data better. Dysan, Maxwell and lesser disks gets the bit rot. The good test is to view them through bright light and pick a very dark, uninform areas, if you see shades of spots or stripes of lighter and dark areas, they're flunked. My second choice is 3M but I wonder where they are still made. :) That's on 3.5" disks. > > c) The drives are easier to maintain. I've read the service manual for the > SA800 and SA850 and also the Teac FD55-GFR (a typical 5.25" drive) and I > know which I'd rather keep running. > > > The only other storage I keep around is the TU58 dectapeII as it's serial > > and can be plugged into anything that can do RS232/423. At 256k a cart its > > not big or fast. Jason D. From william at ans.net Tue Aug 19 12:27:40 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708191727.AA21104@interlock.ans.net> > I suspect this is an HP1000-series processor. Exactly what it is depends > on what cards are in it. There are still a bunch of these still in service, complete with switch registers and blinkey lights! I do not know who runs them, however. The newer models dumped the lights and switch register, much like PDP-11s. > Standard 19" rack, I guess. A lot of stuff (computers, peripherals, > test gear,etc) fits that standard rack. There are also (much rarer) wider > racks for things that just can't fit into 19" - like big monitors. Actually, 23" is quite common for telco equipment. Western Electric had a bunch of standards, all dating from the 1920's, thank goodness that only two survived. William Donzelli william@ans.net From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Tue Aug 19 12:28:55 1997 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:03:00 CDT." Message-ID: <199708191728.MAA14595@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Re the HP 1000 A900: From zmerch at northernway.net Tue Aug 19 12:22:45 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Floppie Follies In-Reply-To: <199708191718.NAA29638@mail.cgocable.net> References: <199708191439.AA27928@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970819132245.009e4700@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca said: >Hi! > >> > Nearly every system I have has been migrated toward 3.5" drives or up >> > scaled 5.25s where possible. Exceptions are the Vt180 where compatability Yessireebob, me to. I do a fair amt. of travelling, and I like the sturdier case of the 3.5" microfloppies. (tho, if I could find more 2" drives, I'd be _really_ happy then! ;-) >Tony, well, what's about the Fuji disks? I abused them and used it >too much and they do last and keep data better. Dysan, Maxwell and >lesser disks gets the bit rot. The good test is to view them through >bright light and pick a very dark, uninform areas, if you see shades >of spots or stripes of lighter and dark areas, they're flunked. >My second choice is 3M but I wonder where they are still made. :) Sure they are... AAMAF, 3M is doing such a large business in computer media they spun off a separate company to do it. It's called Imation, and their logo is a hand waving a wand, with lots of plusses, x's and o's (and prolly pixie dust as well) in the wake of the wand. Frankly, 3M/Imation are my favorite, as I've only had one fail on me (in any format) despite 15 years of use... and it was run over by a car. Speaking of Fuji, do they still make 2" media? Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu Tue Aug 19 12:34:39 1997 From: stuart at colossus.mathcs.rhodes.edu (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:51:08 BST." Message-ID: <199708191734.MAA14626@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Re: TU58 code for Unix The XINU version 6 distribution had a program called dd58 that would talk to TU58 drives. It also included a library called lib58.a that could be used to develop TU58 programs. I don't know if the most recent releases still have it, but if not, I might be able to dig up a copy. Brian L. Stuart Math/CS Dept, Rhodes College, Memphis, TN stuartb@acm.org http://www.mathcs.rhodes.edu/~stuart/ From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 12:47:59 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: <199708191734.MAA14626@mathcs.rhodes.edu.> Message-ID: > Re: TU58 code for Unix > > The XINU version 6 distribution had a program called dd58 that would > talk to TU58 drives. It also included a library called lib58.a that So it does... How did I forget about that... > could be used to develop TU58 programs. I don't know if the most recent > releases still have it, but if not, I might be able to dig up a copy. > The version I pulled from the 'official' site earlier this year included it. I doubt very much that it's been removed since then. Now all I have to do is get it to compile on a linux box - from memory there's a couple of things that are very VAX-specific in the terminal I/O code. > Brian L. Stuart -tony From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 19 13:18:42 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: "Daniel A. Seagraves"'s message of Tue, 19 Aug 1997 11:03:00 -0500 (CDT) References: Message-ID: <199708191818.LAA16852@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Daniel A. Seagraves" writes: > The front panel on the box says: > HP 1000 A900 > HEWLETT PACKARD. Fairly late-model HP 1000, replaced by the A990 in 1991 I think. I don't know that much about them but think they are descended from the HP 2100 and 21MX processors used in earlier 1000s (and would like to find out more, so corrections are invited). What are the first four digits of the serial number? That will give you some idea of its age; first two digits are probably year less 1960, next two digits are week-of-year. > It says "hp 7970E" It is a 1600 BPI 9-track drive. Is yours in a lo-boy cabinet with the supply and takeup hubs side-by-side, or in the tall cabinet with supply mounted above takeup? Mine is a lo-boy but I have used both. > Buttons a re LOAD, REWIND, ONLINE, RESET, 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF > Connector is a small printer-plug looking thing (Like the plug on your > printer, but smaller. Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. > I do have a scratch tape, how does one get the tape into these? As Tony said, there should be a diagram that shows the tape path. Pop the lever in the center of the supply hub up, and slide your tape on. Leave the lever up for now; you will be pulling tape off the supply reel and if the hub were engaged you would have to turn it too. Pull the tape off the supply reel, threading it around the stationary post, then the tension arm, then the heads (lift the cover over the read/write head to thread the tape through), then the other tension arm, then the other stationary post, then onto the takeup reel. Hold the tape against the takeup reel -- stick your finger through the little hole -- and make a turn or two of the takeup reel to get the tape firmly held on the reel. Push the lever on the supply hub down to engage the supply reel. Now you can push LOAD to get the tape drive to scan for the load point. If it just keeps going and going then there is a problem with the light/sensor assembly. ONLINE puts the drive on-line. Won't work unless the tape is loaded. RESET is "stop what you're doing and take the drive offline". REWIND is "rewind to load point or 'til the tension arms lose tension because the tape came loose from the takeup reel". 0, 1, 2, 3, OFF switch the drive's unit number; OFF is effectively offline. Note that unit number may not have an obvious relation to the system's device name or number. I don't know much about RTE (the OS on the 1000s) but under MPE on classic 3000s it was a component of either the DRT number or the unit number, which were in turn referenced by the logical device number. > Any info is appreciated. Hope this helps, if you have more questions feel free to ask. -Frank McConnell From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 19 13:37:20 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: <199708191818.LAA16852@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across many (any?) BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them. > -Frank McConnell -tony From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Aug 19 15:00:56 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I purchased a batch of old micros which included 3 Apples, 1 ][E and two > that are not identified. The motherboards are longer than on the "E" and > extend under the keyboard. The keyboard has a white key labled upr and lwr > case, pwr. in the lower left corner, and the rear of the case has U shaped > cutouts instead of the type of openings on the "E" and "+". > I havent been able to find "Apple" on the case or motherboard but the > power supply seems identical to that in the "E" and "+". Can anyone suggest > what I have? Sounds a hell of a lot like a Franklin Ace 1000. Long motherboard, upr/lwr, U shape slots. I'll bet there's a rectangular impression with nothing in it on the front slope. The Ace had a metallic label that seems to have fallen off more often than not. --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Tue Aug 19 15:05:57 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp > > ^^^^^^^^ > > Why do I always parse this as "halitosis"? :-) > > Same reason I do. It's the closest string that's a familiar word. Feel sorry for the people I work with ;). I'm a marine biology student - almost all of my servers are named after invertebrate genera. It's my revenge for inheriting servers with names like bozo, bongo, and bossy. Ugh. --------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Whitson Classic Computers List Operator bw@booster.bothell.washington.edu CCL Web Site: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 19 18:01:29 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oooh fun... so there's little chance of interfacing it to the 11/44? The drive appears to work - I stuck the scratch tape in it and loaded it. Played with the buttons. It loaded right. As for the computer, it apparently uses the drive. I have no cord, and no idea where to plug it in. Where's the console terminal? Mine has no switches, darn. From dhq at juno.com Tue Aug 19 18:50:42 1997 From: dhq at juno.com (David H Quackenbush) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey References: Message-ID: <19970819.194952.6463.0.dhq@juno.com> Unfortunately it is an Odyssey 2; but it came with a pile of games. The Pong is still fun and it can run on batteries, and if I plug it into my 5 in. TV I'll have a portable video game to keep the grand kids busy! (What a concept, maybe it should be revived :). Regards, David Q. P.S. I know of an Odyssey, complete with overlays, pistol etc., but it is somewhere on the West coast of Florida and I've lost touch with the owner of it :( From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 19 19:34:28 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey In-Reply-To: <19970819.194952.6463.0.dhq@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, David H Quackenbush wrote: > Unfortunately it is an Odyssey 2; but it came with a pile of games. The > Pong is still fun and it can run on batteries, and if I plug it into my 5 > in. TV I'll have a portable video game to keep the grand kids busy! (What > a concept, maybe it should be revived :). Cool. The Oddyssey2 is nice. You might want to find out how rare the games you got with it are. There's a web page (don't know off the top of my head...e-mail me about it and I'll look in my bookmarks) that has rarity listings for every game ever made for every game system. > P.S. I know of an Odyssey, complete with overlays, pistol etc., but it > is somewhere on the West coast of Florida and I've lost touch with the > owner of it :( Oooh, track that sucker down. Mine unfortunately does not have the overlays but the guy who sold it to me is still looking. I picked mine up for $20. It's in OK shape. The original batteries were still in it when I got it which were probably about 20+ years old and leaked out all over the battery compartment and corroded the battery spring contacts, but it can be cleaned up. There were other accessories that came with it, including poker chips and play money. Six "carthridges" came with it as well. I also came across a lucky find in a thrift store a couple months back. I got, in the original box, the Odyssey Shooting Gallery, which is basically a light rifle (actually is a plastic toy rifle light gun), with some overlays. UNFORTUNATELY, it did not come with any carthridge, which I presume it came with. If someone knows otherwise please chime in. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From sinasohn at crl.com Tue Aug 19 20:34:46 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Drive Alignment (was: Multiple Topics...) Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970819183645.32ef18c8@mail.crl.com> At 05:55 AM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). Something to mention is to make copies of disks created on drives you plan to realign before realigning them. That is, if drive A is out of alignment and disk A was created on Drive A, make a copy of disk A (in drive A) onto disk B in Drive B (where drive B is a known, well aligned drive.) Otherwise, when you get all your drives working fine, you won't be able to read any of the disks created when they were out of whack. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 19 22:05:04 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:37:20 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199708200305.UAA17263@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. > > It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that > connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across > many (any?) Any time I've seen that connector on HP gear it was for HP-IB. And the 7970s that aren't HP-IB don't have that connector. Instead I think they have a card-edge connector or something to mate with a card-edge connector (on the end of a long cable that you're supposed to drag back to the interface in the CPU cabinet). The 7970 is not a new drive; HP made and sold them for a number of years. The first HP 3000 I ever saw (a series II) had one, and that was in 1977. I'm pretty sure there was some way to hook it up to a 2100 (stand-alone, or in an instrument controller or 1000/2000 configuration) as well. The HP 3000 series II and series III did not use HP-IB. The first HP-IB 3000s were the series 30 and 33. When HP started shipping new HP-IB peripherals that were bigger/better/faster[1] they also had the "Starfish" for the series III. That was a small card cage mounted in its own 19" cabinet, reportedly due to UL certification requirements, which provided a GIC (General I/O Channel aka HP-IB interface) and somehow interfaced it to the series III. At a previous place of employment, we had a series III when I started. It eventually (1984) got upgraded to (box swapped for) a series 64, which supported HP-IB somewhat more directly. We had had a Starfish on the III, but had only used it for a 7933 disc -- the 7970E tape drives were hooked up to a MAGNETIC TAPE INTERFACE card in the III. Part of the upgrade was the removal of some interface electronics from the bottom of the "master" 7970E and its replacement with some new interface electronics that spoke HP-IB. There was a similar replacement for the 7925 disc drive too. > BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to > call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol > make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called > 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), > IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) > and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them. Doggone if I know. We always called them HP-IB connectors. So did the HP CEs. We were pretty much a 3000 shop with not much non-HP equipment outside of the modems and furniture, certainly nothing else that tried to use that connector. Well, we did for a while have a Univac 1004 RJE station, but we never tried to plug it into the 3000 and I can't remember ever trying to do much with it other than feed it paper when it ran out. -Frank McConnell [1] the ones I am thinking of are the 7933 disc drive (404MB washing machine), 7976A tape drive (6250BPI 9-track, streaming and start-stop, OEM'd from someone else (STC I think)), and 2680A laser printer; I think these were the only peripherals supported for connection via Starfish From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 19 23:26:18 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: <199708200305.UAA17263@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 19 Aug 1997, Frank McConnell wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > > Sounds like HP-IB all right. Note that not all 7970s are. > > > > It's a fairly safe bet IMHO that anything HP after about 1975 with that > > connector is HPIB. There are probably exceptions, but I've not come across > > many (any?) > > Any time I've seen that connector on HP gear it was for HP-IB. And > the 7970s that aren't HP-IB don't have that connector. Instead I > think they have a card-edge connector or something to mate with a > card-edge connector (on the end of a long cable that you're supposed > to drag back to the interface in the CPU cabinet). > > The 7970 is not a new drive; HP made and sold them for a number of > years. The first HP 3000 I ever saw (a series II) had one, and that > was in 1977. I'm pretty sure there was some way to hook it up to a > 2100 (stand-alone, or in an instrument controller or 1000/2000 > configuration) as well. > > The HP 3000 series II and series III did not use HP-IB. The first > HP-IB 3000s were the series 30 and 33. When HP started shipping new > HP-IB peripherals that were bigger/better/faster[1] they also had the > "Starfish" for the series III. That was a small card cage mounted in > its own 19" cabinet, reportedly due to UL certification requirements, > which provided a GIC (General I/O Channel aka HP-IB interface) and > somehow interfaced it to the series III. > > At a previous place of employment, we had a series III when I started. > It eventually (1984) got upgraded to (box swapped for) a series 64, > which supported HP-IB somewhat more directly. We had had a Starfish > on the III, but had only used it for a 7933 disc -- the 7970E tape > drives were hooked up to a MAGNETIC TAPE INTERFACE card in the III. > Part of the upgrade was the removal of some interface electronics from > the bottom of the "master" 7970E and its replacement with some new > interface electronics that spoke HP-IB. There was a similar > replacement for the 7925 disc drive too. > > > BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to > > call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol > > make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called > > 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), > > IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) > > and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them. As I recall, they were introduced as Amphenol Blue(?) Ribbon connectors at the time of their introduction. That was the generic term. Centronics, HPIB (or GPIB), SCSI and others came. of course, from the application. But I believe the generic was Blue Ribbon or just Ribbon connectors. > Doggone if I know. We always called them HP-IB connectors. So did > the HP CEs. We were pretty much a 3000 shop with not much non-HP > equipment outside of the modems and furniture, certainly nothing else > that tried to use that connector. Well, we did for a while have a > Univac 1004 RJE station, but we never tried to plug it into the 3000 > and I can't remember ever trying to do much with it other than feed it > paper when it ran out. > > -Frank McConnell > > [1] the ones I am thinking of are the 7933 disc drive (404MB washing > machine), 7976A tape drive (6250BPI 9-track, streaming and > start-stop, OEM'd from someone else (STC I think)), and 2680A laser > printer; I think these were the only peripherals supported for > connection via Starfish > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Aug 20 02:48:08 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: [re: Magnavox Odyssey] > Oooh, track that sucker down. Mine unfortunately does not have the > overlays but the guy who sold it to me is still looking. I picked mine > up for $20. It's in OK shape. The original batteries were still in it > when I got it which were probably about 20+ years old and leaked out all > over the battery compartment and corroded the battery spring contacts, > but it can be cleaned up. Ouch! The one I picked up is in pristine physical condition, though I still don't know if it works (haven't bothered to get all those damn 'C' cells for it yet). Frankly, it hardly looks used so maybe it doesn't work (that's a guideline I'm starting to develop for the C64 - in great shape = hardly used BECAUSE IT DIED YOUNG, but I might be wrong. ;) ) > There were other accessories that came with > it, including poker chips and play money. The poker chips with mine are still in the plastic, which is cool. I haven't checked to see if all of the playing cards are there. There were some dice with it as well. > Six "carthridges" came with it as well. If you can really call them cartridges, yeah. I've seen them called "wafers" which might be more apt. And multiple games use the same wafers, you just paste up a different overlay and change the rules, and the same little dots make a new game. :) > I also came across a lucky find in a thrift store a couple > months back. I got, in the original box, the Odyssey Shooting Gallery, > which is basically a light rifle (actually is a plastic toy rifle light > gun), with some overlays. Cool! > UNFORTUNATELY, it did not come with any > carthridge, which I presume it came with. If someone knows otherwise > please chime in. Unfortunately, I don't know. I'm just a happy idiot who happened to walk into the right place at the right time and pick up a pristine Odyssey system for $5 (Canadian), including "Instrument Inspection Card" and "Receive a free ODYSSEY game!" card, with only faint inklings of what it was. I'm not generally into game systems, but this thing was so weird I could NOT pass it up. The 1972 date on it helped me bring it home as well. Then I went out onto the 'net and found out what I had. :) I've never seen one of those light rifles, and if I do I'll be sure NOT to pass it up. I think someone in rec.games.video.classic will know if the light rifle came with wafers/cartridges or not. I think I read somewhere that there were 100,000 Odysseys manufactured. I wonder how many of those are now in landfill. :/ > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 20 03:20:36 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Oooh fun... so there's little chance of interfacing it to the 11/44? Well, there are GPIB (same thing as HPIB as near as darn-it) cards for the PDP11 Unibus (and Qbus for that matter) both from DEC (the IB-11 and IBV-11) and 3rd parties. But AFAIK there is no support for HP tape drives hung off such a card - certainly not for booting or installing an OS. > As for the computer, it apparently uses the drive. I have no cord, and no > idea where to plug it in. Where's the console terminal? Mine has no > switches, darn. Well, it probably connects via a custom HP cable (read: expensive) to one of the cards in the cardcage. That's what happens on a friends HP9000/735. Ditto for the console terminal. What cards do you have in there, and what markings do they have? Anything recognizable? -tony From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Wed Aug 20 03:24:38 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Drive Alignment (was: Multiple Topics...) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970819183645.32ef18c8@mail.crl.com> Message-ID: > At 05:55 AM 8/19/97 +0000, you wrote: > > drive alignment for various disk drives (not even close to ready yet). > > Something to mention is to make copies of disks created on drives you plan > to realign before realigning them. That is, if drive A is out of alignment > and disk A was created on Drive A, make a copy of disk A (in drive A) onto > disk B in Drive B (where drive B is a known, well aligned drive.) Absolutely... And then you find a disk 6 months later that was recorded on the misaligned drive and for which you have no backup. Been there, done that... :-( This is the one time that the 'insert disk, move head to find points where read amplitude falls off, set midway between them' method is useful. You can often deliberately misalign a drive to read such a disk. I've though about making a set of drives (at leat 8" and 5.25") with calibrated head offset devices (probably micrometers linked to the stepper chassis). Then I can tweak them a little more easily to read defective disks. > Otherwise, when you get all your drives working fine, you won't be able to > read any of the disks created when they were out of whack. > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad -tony From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Aug 20 00:42:29 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: What's an M7165? In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205E15CD8@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <199708200916.FAA03636@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 16:34:06 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Kai Kaltenbach > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: RE: What's an M7165? > Does anyone else find this hilariously funny? > > > ---------- > > From: Tim Shoppa > > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Sent: Monday, August 18, 1997 5:29 PM > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Subject: Re: What's an M7165? > > > > > What's an M7165? > > > > One half of a KDA50. The other half is a M7164. > > > > Tim. > > > Yes , I giggled thru the rest of the ng posts, many of which are unintelligable to me. I keep hoping that enlightenment will miraculously happen. I have been monitoring this ng for a while and picking up snippets of info. It occurred to me that the PDP8/e/f/m maintenance manual (vol 1 } that I had acquired and kept since my course on dig. electronics in 83 because it had a beautiful description of the fetch sequence in processors might be of value in this group. If it's quite available "nevermind" ciao larry From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Aug 20 07:06:49 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970819073438.0068b9a8@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970820080649.0068bbd4@mail.wincom.net> At 07:34 AM 8/19/97 -0400, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > > > Thanks for the replies to my Apple? question. I think Bill Whitson called it, as the case matches his discription of the Franklin Ace 1000. The interesting thing is that I got another one yesterday, along with a Laser 128EX. I am somewhat official now as I joined the team that is trying to establish a science museum here (Windsor Ontario) so I have a logical reason for collecting computers and other odds and ends. Following someones advice, (Sams?) I put a little ad in our weekly paper on Sunday and have so far obtained fifteen, a lot of junk, but a Pet that I needed and the Apples. I also have leads on an Osborne and a PC Jr. and faint leads on a DEC Rainbow and some kind of Sun. Another phone call turned out to be from the fellow, now retired, who used to do the maintenance on the Basic 4 that is lurking in my garage. Cheers Charlie Fox From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Wed Aug 20 07:40:02 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? Message-ID: <199708200840_MC2-1DAE-E9EA@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >BTW, what's the correct name for that series of connectors? We tend to call them 'Amphenol Connectors' in the UK (while realising that Amphenol make a wide range of different connectors). I've also seen them called 'Centronics Connectors' (after the common use for the 36 pin one I guess), IEEE (or IEEE-488) connectors (after the common use for the 24 pin one) and 'Telco Connectors'. I think the last is what HP call them.< They are generically called "Centronics connectors" in the U.S., being 36 pin, 24 pin, or whatever. The HP connectors are called IEEE-488, since that is the standard they follow; never heard them called "Telco connectors" by HP or anyone else. Gil Parrish From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Aug 20 07:54:22 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: PDP-8 docs Message-ID: <199708201254.AA11518@world.std.com> < Yes , I giggled thru the rest of the ng posts, many of which are Re: the 9-track thread on the HP 7970: Mention has been made that it seems to have an HPIB interface. I ran into the same thing with an HP7974 drive that I acquired from Teltone here in Washington state. However, I also found that the HPIB interface consisted of a removable cage with three cards and its own power supply. Once this subassembly was removed, the drive itself appeared to be a standard Pertec interface. I have yet to actually try it, but a pair of 50-pin card-edge connections sure look like Pertec to me. I will let the group know once I get a chance to actually try it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Aug 20 10:26:54 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track drive: What is it? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970820070135.00e7fb90@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 20, 97 07:01:35 am Message-ID: <9708201426.AA26897@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 815 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970820/6a70ef76/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 20 09:29:22 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track drive: What is it? In-Reply-To: <9708201426.AA26897@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > If it's two 50-pin connectors, it's a Pertec Formatted interface. > Lots of older drives have within their bowels yet another set > of cables: the Pertec Unformatted interface. This is three cables, > one carrying control signals, another carrying read data, another > carrying write data. > Which DOES interface to the 11! I'll go look. The front of the drive does open, it did that and knocked me in the shins... From kevan at heydon.org Wed Aug 20 11:25:46 1997 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Lisa II Power supply wanted in Bay Area... Message-ID: <199708201625.RAA02399@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, I have been looking for a power supply for my Lisa II for some time now, but as Lisa seem to be very rare in the UK I have had no luck so far. I guess they are more common in the US, so I am putting out this email in the hope of finding someone who has a spare they can let me have. I know of someone who would be willing to transport one back from the Bay Area this weekend which would be real good because it would save a lot in shipping costs. Many thanks for listening... -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From s-ware at nwu.edu Wed Aug 20 12:34:08 1997 From: s-ware at nwu.edu (Scott Ware) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: video games/Odyssey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Doug Spence wrote: > On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Sam Ismail wrote: > > [re: Magnavox Odyssey] > > > Oooh, track that sucker down. Mine unfortunately does not have the > > overlays but the guy who sold it to me is still looking. I picked mine > > up for $20. It's in OK shape. The original batteries were still in it My Odyssey had original (or at least old) red Eveready transistor batteries in it, as well. Oddly enough, they still held a charge - around 1.1 volts each with no load. The internal resistance is quite high, though, so they're not good for much current. Any interested dry cell collectors out there? :) Opening up the Odyssey and taking a look inside is on my (ever-expanding) list of things to do. From what I have read, the Odyssey was designed several years before it was manufactured (1969?). At the time, even SSI TTL ICs were impractically expensive for use in a home game system; accordingly, the Odyssey is implemented in DTL using discrete transistors and diodes. Regarding the Odyssey cartridges/wafers: My brother-in-law remembers having a book many years ago on designing homebrew Odyssey games. Given the simplicity of the hardware (the wafers are apparently just connection patterns on a PC board, with the occasional resistor or diode), it shouldn't be too difficult to do. Desiging screen overlays and interesting new games that can be played on the Odyssey hardware may be more of a challenge. I've thought about sending in the "free game" card as well, just to see what would happen. Probably the same thing that happened when I sent in the "free program" card that came with my 3b1 - nothing. Of course, I don't imagine that the extra wafer is actually already there in /etc/fixes/ on the Odyssey. :) If anyone is interested in scans of the original overlays, let me know and I'll give scanning them a try. -- Scott Ware s-ware@nwu.edu From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 20 12:26:35 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track drive: What is it? In-Reply-To: <9708201426.AA26897@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > However, I also found that the HPIB interface consisted of a removable > > cage with three cards and its own power supply. Once this subassembly was > > removed, the drive itself appeared to be a standard Pertec interface. I > > have yet to actually try it, but a pair of 50-pin card-edge connections > > sure look like Pertec to me. > > If it's two 50-pin connectors, it's a Pertec Formatted interface. > Lots of older drives have within their bowels yet another set > of cables: the Pertec Unformatted interface. This is three cables, > one carrying control signals, another carrying read data, another > carrying write data. I can see 3 cables. One to motor control, the other 2 to 2 backplanes. I guess backplane 1 is read, 2 is write, as 2 has less boards. All are fully populated. What do Pertec Unformatted Interface cables look like? These look like IDE cables. From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Wed Aug 20 13:14:14 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Chip Message-ID: Found a chip in my mailbox today: Z8400AB1 Is this the Z80 CPU? Not sure who put it there... Doesn't look toasted... No bent pins... It may be good! Does it have any useful purpose by itself? From dastar at crl.com Wed Aug 20 14:34:41 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Apple? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970820080649.0068bbd4@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Charles E. Fox wrote: > Following someones advice, (Sams?) I put a little ad in our weekly paper > on Sunday and have so far obtained fifteen, a lot of junk, but a Pet that I > needed and the Apples. I also have leads on an Osborne and a PC Jr. and > faint leads on a DEC Rainbow and some kind of Sun. Good for you! It's the best way to find old computers. People come to you instead of you having to go out searching for them. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 20 17:47:48 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: <199708200840_MC2-1DAE-E9EA@compuserve.com> from "Gil Parrish" at Aug 20, 97 08:40:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 447 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970820/85f03d9f/attachment-0001.ksh From sinasohn at crl.com Wed Aug 20 20:28:58 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970820183108.2a8f169e@ricochet.net> At 11:18 AM 8/19/97 -0700, you wrote: >Now you can push LOAD to get the tape drive to scan for the load >point. If it just keeps going and going then there is a problem with >the light/sensor assembly. It could also mean that you wound the tape onto the take-up reel past the load point, or that the tape didn't have one (i.e., it was cut/broken off.) Try re-loading the tape, after checking for the load point thingy (a little silver piece of something on the tape.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From rcini at msn.com Wed Aug 20 21:21:41 1997 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems Message-ID: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> Well, today I decided to repair the power supply on the Percom floppy that I have for my pair of Model I's. Then, I decided to see if a complete keyboard-EI-floppy setup worked. Therein lies the problem... It seems like each CPU (a 4k and a 16k Level II) won't recognize either EI (a Rev 0 and Rev 1). Both EI's have 32k of RAM. All that I get on the screen is garbage. I'm turing the EI on first, then the CPU. I've also tried two types of EI cables, one buffered and one not. I can tell which cable goes to which EI because the floppy drive will initialize only with the right combo. It sounds like I have two bad EI's, but the thing that throws me is that the floppy interface performs a floppy reset. Does anyone have any clue?? Also, how does one refer to the floppy drive in a BASIC statement? For example, if I want to load a program, do I type LOAD "0:test.bas"? I have no manuals for these machines, and it's been a loooong time since I used one of these. Also, on an unrelated note, the Altair scans are in, but I'm waiting for Bill Whitson's address so that I can Fedex a tape to him. Does anyone have it?? Rich Cini/WUGNET -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970820/4bff5145/attachment-0001.html From danjo at xnet.com Wed Aug 20 21:52:38 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Richard Cini wrote: > Well, today I decided to repair the power supply on the Percom floppy > that I have for my pair of Model I's. Then, I decided to see if a > complete keyboard-EI-floppy setup worked. Therein lies the problem... Well FIRST I want to say - this is a Classic Computer Group - I don't want to see ANY MORE HTML Email! Especially off a Winders Machine! 8-) 8-) 8-) > It seems like each CPU (a 4k and a 16k Level II) won't recognize either > EI (a Rev 0 and Rev 1). Both EI's have 32k of RAM. All that I get on the > screen is garbage. I'm turing the EI on first, then the CPU. I've also > tried two types of EI cables, one buffered and one not. I can tell which > cable goes to which EI because the floppy drive will initialize only > with the right combo. I think you have to hold down the Break Key when you turn on the Keyboard/CPU. That will get you into BASIC. > It sounds like I have two bad EI's, but the thing that throws me is that > the floppy interface performs a floppy reset. Could be just a power on reset. > Does anyone have any clue?? Also, how does one refer to the floppy drive > in a BASIC statement? For example, if I want to load a program, do I > type LOAD "0:test.bas"? I have no manuals for these machines, and it's > been a loooong time since I used one of these. Well, it has to boot into DOS first then - I don't remember - 8-) I would have to look it up. > Also, on an unrelated note, the Altair scans are in, but I'm waiting for > Bill Whitson's address so that I can Fedex a tape to him. Does anyone > have it?? Ask him 8-) BC From dougdu at MICROSOFT.com Wed Aug 20 22:00:44 1997 From: dougdu at MICROSOFT.com (Doug Duchene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems Message-ID: Rich, Hmmm... let's see if I understand you correctly. You have a TRS-80 Model I with EI and floppy drive and when you turn the system on, the screen fills with random garbage? I have one sitting here in my office and that appears to be normal behavior if there is no bootable disk in drive 0 when the computer is turned on or reset. Try holding down the BREAK key and hitting reset button to enter ROM BASIC. As I recall, if the EI is connected then the system checks the BREAK key and jumps to BASIC if it's pressed, otherwise it reads the first sector from the disk and executes it. All this happens before video RAM is initialized so the screen is filled with trash. Hope this helps, - Doug From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 21 01:36:48 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: PDP-8 docs In-Reply-To: <199708201254.AA11518@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199708211009.GAA23686@smtp.interlog.com> > Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:54:22 -0400 > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: PDP-8 docs > > that is an interesting doc. While it may have been common at one time > may simply were tossed making them scarce (or still on a shelf somewhere). > > I'd be interested as I still like hacking with PDP-8s. > > Allison > > I want to keep the manual but what I could possibly do if your interested is photocopy it and send it by snail-mail ( I dont have a scanner and the resultant file would be too large anyway) . ciao larry From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Aug 20 16:22:55 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Maybe not here-floppy for Toshiba Message-ID: I know that this really doesn't belong here, but in some circles, the old Toshiba laptop that I have may be considered a classic! Anyway, I'm looking for help finding an internal floppy drive for my Toshiba 3100/20 laptop. It's a portable, non-battery Red plasma laptop, with a messed-up 720k floppy drive. Does anyone know where I can get one of these. Toshiba want's over $150 for one, and I won't pay that for a crappy 720k drive on a free machine. Any leads appreciated! Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From gram at cnct.com Thu Aug 21 08:53:20 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, Richard Cini wrote: > It seems like each CPU (a 4k and a 16k Level II) won't recognize = > either EI (a Rev 0 and Rev 1). Both EI's have 32k of RAM. All that I get = > on the screen is garbage. I'm turing the EI on first, then the CPU. I've = > also tried two types of EI cables, one buffered and one not. I can tell = > which cable goes to which EI because the floppy drive will initialize = > only with the right combo. You've already been given the message concerning the BREAK-RESET on power-up. I thought I'd mention that that should work fine with the 16k CPU. The 4k CPU won't recognize the RAM in the EI - the self test will notice that there's nothing past 4k and not look further. You could write a program to _manually_ initialize the EI memory and poke values into it, but BASIC can't see it. About all an EI gives to a 4k CPU is a parallel port and an extra cassette port -- TRSDOS (or any of the alternates) sure won't fit. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Thu Aug 21 08:41:47 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Pertec cabling Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970821064147.00e72b10@mail.wizards.net> I can't speak for the 7970, but I can tell you that Pertec formatted connections are usually a pair of 50-pin (25 to each side) PC edge paddles. I've seen a few (very few!) devices, specifically an old Unibus tape controller, where one connection was a Berg 50-pin header and the other was an edge paddle. From your description, it sounds as though the drive may not have its own formatter built in, outside of the HPIB interface section. I could, however, be mistaken (read: I'd need to see the drive). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Aug 21 09:21:14 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970821064147.00e72b10@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: Is there Pertec cards for PCs? I'd love to connect this to our SCO box, I have a tape image I'd like on the 9-track. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 10:40:55 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 21, 97 09:21:14 am Message-ID: <9708211440.AA01766@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 815 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/8aba1405/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Aug 21 10:48:30 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Harris flyback transformers for H192 terminals:FS Message-ID: My boss is getting rid of a bunch of these. New and used. $35 apiece new, the used ones are $10. He's trying to clean out the back room. Can anyone use these? We have around 50 new, and 500 used ones. From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Aug 21 12:02:06 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: Howdy: This last weekend I picked up a Commodore 64-C complete with a 1541 disk drive and a 1541 ][ drive, about 6,000 games on 400 disks, printer, manuals, Vic disk drive, tons of cart games, etc., etc.... all for $30. Anyway, here's my question: I had never had a C-64c before and right after I picked this one up wandered over to another place and saw something that looked similar to it. It wasn't label Comodore or anything, but did have the C= key on the keyboard. The keyboard was identical to the C-64c I have except just above the keyboard the ======== (lines, vent, whatever) doesn't go all the way across. On either side of this vent, whatever, there are little 'bays' I guess that you might expect a label(s) to fit into. Although there are none. On the back all it says is manufactured is southern Australia. Could anyone please let me info. on this. Also, does anyone know whwere to find a mouse for the C-64c that will work with the Geos software I have or other. Thanks, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Aug 21 09:13:37 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: 7-pin VIC PS Connector Message-ID: Is the 7-pin power connector on certain VIC-20's the same as the power supply on the C64?? I just got a couple VIC's of this type with no power supplies. TIA! +============================================+ | Rich Cini/WUGNET | +============================================+ From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 21 12:18:35 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Cord Coslor wrote: > I picked this one up wandered over to another place and saw something that > looked similar to it. It wasn't label Comodore or anything, but did have > the C= key on the keyboard. The keyboard was identical to the C-64c I have > except just above the keyboard the ======== (lines, vent, whatever) > doesn't go all the way across. On either side of this vent, whatever, > there are little 'bays' I guess that you might expect a label(s) to fit > into. Although there are none. On the back all it says is manufactured is Sounds like you found the same thing I did and asked about several weeks ago. Its just a commodore 64 in an upgraded case you could buy to make it look like the 64C. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 13:32:42 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:50 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: <9708211440.AA01766@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 21, 97 07:40:55 am Message-ID: <9708211732.AA00809@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/a05841d7/attachment-0001.ksh From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 21 12:28:55 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: 7-pin VIC PS Connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > Is the 7-pin power connector on certain VIC-20's the same as the power supply > on the C64?? I just got a couple VIC's of this type with no power supplies. As far as I know, yes, as I think I've interchanged power supplies on several oocasions and they always worked. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Aug 21 13:09:30 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: DEC DOC LESS Message-ID: <19970821110930.0462ec7f.in@mail.pressstart.com> I dug these boards out of a closet last night to find enough boards to get an H-11 up and running. I was wondering if any of the DEC experts out there could identify the purpose for any of these boards.(Names come from whats written on each board) They all appear to be Q bus. M7940 or M7946 RXV11 LSI 11 Interface (Half width) I may have written down the wrong board number here. This, I'm 90% sure is the serial interface board I'll need to connect a terminal to the system. At least it looks like one I had on my LSI-11 many moons ago. If it is, I sure could use the pin-out for the connector and baud rate settings. M8340 Decoder and Step Counter (Full width) M8341 Multiplexers and Timing Generator (Full width) These two boards are linked togather with a connector across the top of the boards. M8639 RDRX Disk Controller (Full width) Is this a hard drive or floppy controller and if its a floppy controller, is it single or double density? M7957 Asyn Mux (Full width) M4002 ? (Half width) M8189 KDF 11-B (Full width) This appears to be a processor board with only 3 of the 5 sockets filled. M8043 ? (Half width) I have the processor board covered. I have about half a dozen M7264 LSI-11 processor boards. But, I could also use a list of commands for the resident monitor. Damn, I can't even remember what it's called. Thanks for any help, ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer (PSX and Saturn video games) Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 14:27:50 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: DEC DOC LESS In-Reply-To: <19970821110930.0462ec7f.in@mail.pressstart.com> from "Doug Coward" at Aug 21, 97 11:09:30 am Message-ID: <9708211827.AA03428@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2253 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/29df60ae/attachment-0001.ksh From impeesa at arrakis.es Thu Aug 21 10:23:57 1997 From: impeesa at arrakis.es (Sergio Izquierdo García) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Chip References: Message-ID: <33FC5D8D.7A54@arrakis.es> Hi, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > Found a chip in my mailbox today: Z8400AB1 > Is this the Z80 CPU? > In my Toshiba 8-bit Data Book I can read: Z84C00AP Z84C00AT Z80 CPU @ 4 MHz Z84C00AP-6 Z84C00AM-6 Z84C00AT-6 Z80 CPU @ 6 MHz Z84C00AP-8 Z84C00AM-8 Z84C00AT-8 Z80 CPU @ 8 MHz I hope this can help. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garc?a mailto:impeesa@arrakis.es From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Thu Aug 21 14:33:31 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Pertec cabling In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970821064147.00e72b10@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Bruce Lane wrote: > I can't speak for the 7970, but I can tell you that Pertec formatted > connections are usually a pair of 50-pin (25 to each side) PC edge paddles. > I've seen a few (very few!) devices, specifically an old Unibus tape > controller, where one connection was a Berg 50-pin header and the other was > an edge paddle. > > From your description, it sounds as though the drive may not have its > own formatter built in, outside of the HPIB interface section. I could, > however, be mistaken (read: I'd need to see the drive). > I wanted to avoid this, but it looks like I get to remove the GPIB boards to look! Lemme go pull the drive apart... The GPIB interface boards look easy to remove. They were... Coming from the cards are 3 50-pin ribbon cables. One to motor control, one to the write electronics, and one to the read electronics. Pertec Unformatted. This means I need a TM02 to Pertec board in the 11, and a Pertec formatter in the drive. Is that correct? Which boards do Pertec to TM02 in the 11? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 21 15:59:31 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Pertec cabling In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 21, 97 02:33:31 pm Message-ID: <9708211959.AA03840@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 405 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/163c6728/attachment-0001.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 21 15:15:12 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: DEC DOC LESS Message-ID: <199708212015.AA28799@world.std.com> @00001/ 02010 @ Entering data.... @00000/ 12345 001040 open a location, it's contents are displayed, enter new contents, CR to close or LF key to advance to next. @P when typed at the @ (monitor prompt) the cpu will continue execution at the current address (assuming there were no errors to cause a monitor trap). $ or R Open a register for display or change. $S or RS opens the processor status register. This should help. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 21 15:20:59 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: uVAX 2 in uk Message-ID: <199708212020.AA04326@world.std.com> Cross posted without permission but considering all... Please can a UK person rescue this? That is a very nice MV-II system. from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 21, 97 12:59:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/bd28328a/attachment-0001.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 21 16:02:17 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: <006c01524021587UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> from "Richard Cini" at Aug 20, 97 10:21:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/f6bc216c/attachment-0001.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 21 16:13:24 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Better question [WAS: Re: Pertec Cabling] In-Reply-To: <9708211440.AA01766@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 21, 97 07:40:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970821/8f4bdb45/attachment-0001.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 21 16:47:49 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708212205.PAA23029@mx3.u.washington.edu> > Hi there. I noticed in your collection that you had an IBM PC; I'm > assuming it's a 5150. Do you have a manual for it that might list the > jumper and dip switch settings on the motherboard, and if so, could you > tell me what they are? Thanks. The 5150 (i.e. the PC) has 2 switchblocks on the motherboard. The one nearest the power supply Block 2) controls the amount of memory addressed: Mem Switch number (KB) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ------------------------------------- 16 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 32 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 48 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 64 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 96 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 128 1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 160 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 192 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 224 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 256 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 288 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 320 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 352 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 384 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 416 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 448 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 480 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 512 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 544 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 576 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 608 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 640 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0=Off 1=On Switch block 1 is farther from the power supply Switch 1 -- PC -- 0=Boot from Floppy 1=Do not boot from floppy XT -- 0=Normal POST (power On Self Test) 1=Continuous POST (i.e., won't boot) Switch 2 -- 0=Math coprocessor installed 1=Math coprocessor not installed Switches 3-4 -- Filled memory banks (on motherboard) 0 0 =All 4 banks 1 0 = Banks 0, 1, and 2 0 1 = Banks 0 and 1 1 1 = Bank 0 only Switches 5-6 -- Video Adapter 0 0 = Monochrome (MDA) or Hercules with no onboard BIOS 0 1 = Color (CGA) 40 chars x 25 lines 1 0 = CGA 80 chars x 25 lines 1 1 = Video Adapter w/ onboard BIOS Note that the PC will support a monochrome adapter at the same time as another type. Switches 7-8 -- Floppy Drives 1 1 = 1 Floppy Drive 0 1 = 2 FDD 1 0 = 3 FDD 0 0 = 4 FDD Hard drive is taken care of by the adapter card. Please e-mail me with any other questions. manney@nwohio.com From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Thu Aug 21 20:33:17 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: RESCUE NEEDED! Decent MicroVAXen in UK!!! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970821183317.00e7d940@mail.wizards.net> Heads up to our UK readers! Fellow's got a decent MicroVAX system that sounds like it would be free for the picking up. Heck, I'd pick it up if I were in the UK... If you can help, PLEASE get in contact with this fellow post-haste. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:57:09 +0100 To: port-vax@netbsd.org From: Robin Birch Subject: uVAX 2 in uk X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03b Sender: port-vax-owner@NetBSD.ORG Delivered-To: port-vax@NetBSD.ORG Dear All, A week or so ago I advertised a uVAX 2 with 2*RA81, TK50, 8MByte, KDA50 offers please Nobody replied, does this mean that nobody wants it and I've got to throw it away or does some one want to give this box a home. Offers please, buyer collects. Robin Robin Birch robin@falstaf.demon.co.uk M1ASU Old computers and radios always welcome -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From danjo at xnet.com Thu Aug 21 20:36:25 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tony Duell wrote: > > Does anyone have any clue?? Also, how does one refer to the floppy = > > It sounds like it might be working. It's been a long time since I booted my > Model 1, but from memory, if the ROM basic detects a disk controller, it > attempts to boot from drive 0, and hangs if it can't do so. Also! Remember that the last drive in the chain must be the model 1160 as it is the one with the terminator! If you don't have an 1160 it may not boot at ALL. If you have both, the first drive (I think) is always drive 0 and that is where the boot disk should go. BC From coslor at pscosf.peru.edu Thu Aug 21 20:50:54 1997 From: coslor at pscosf.peru.edu (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone happen to remember a very old 'arcade game' that foes something like this. I remember playing this in an airport probably 10 years ago, although the game must have been older. It was encased it a type of stand-up motorcycle. I remember it as being red with those sparkly flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and white game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I also remember you only had to hit the coin slot to get it to play. Does anyone know what this was called or any other memories fo this? Thanks a ton, CORD //*=====================================================================++ || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE || || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 || || Classic computer software and hardware collector || || Autograph collector || ++=====================================================================*// From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Aug 21 17:31:13 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: <199708220204.WAA13445@smtp.interlog.com> . Also, does > anyone know whwere to find a mouse for the C-64c that will work with the > Geos software I have or other. > > Thanks, > > CORD > I've been trying to find one myself for a while. As a workaround you can use a joystick, if you configure it with the arrow keys. ciao larry From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Aug 21 21:28:48 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205EC2563@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> If you jumped buses, it was Atari Stunt Cycle (1976). Basically a clone of Atari Night Driver (http://www.pipeline.com/~jhardie/gallery/coinop/nightdrv.jpg), which I believe owns the title as the original "black & white dots" driving game. I don't recall what Atari's earlier entry (the first driving game) called Gran Trak looked like. Another well-known example was 280ZZZAP. Kai > ---------- > From: Cord Coslor > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 1997 6:50 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Old arcade game? > > Does anyone happen to remember a very old 'arcade game' that foes > something like this. I remember playing this in an airport probably 10 > years ago, although the game must have been older. It was encased it a > type of stand-up motorcycle. I remember it as being red with those > sparkly > flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and > white > game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the > road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I > also > remember you only had to hit the coin slot to get it to play. > > Does anyone know what this was called or any other memories fo this? > > Thanks a ton, > > CORD > > //*=================================================================== > ==++ > || Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, > NE || > || (402) 872- 3272 coslor@bobcat.peru.edu > 68421-0308 || > || Classic computer software and hardware collector > || > || Autograph collector > || > ++==================================================================== > =*// > > From indavis at juno.com Thu Aug 21 21:39:53 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? References: Message-ID: <19970821.214132.9998.1.indavis@juno.com> On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 20:50:54 -0500 (CDT) Cord Coslor writes: >Does anyone happen to remember a very old 'arcade game' that foes >something like this. I remember playing this in an airport probably 10 >years ago, although the game must have been older. It was encased it a >type of stand-up motorcycle. I remember it as being red with those >sparkly >flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and >white >game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the >road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I >also >remember you only had to hit the coin slot to get it to play. > >Does anyone know what this was called or any other memories fo this? > Maybe Stunt Cycle by Atari? Just a guess. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 22 00:36:38 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: <199708191235.AA20895@maddog.swec.com> Message-ID: >southern Australia. Could anyone please let me info. on this. Also, does >anyone know whwere to find a mouse for the C-64c that will work with the >Geos software I have or other. You might try Paxtron, Corp. http://www.paxtron.com they've got various parts and accessories for Commodore computers. For example you can get new third-party replacement power supplies from them. I didn't find them to be very knowledgable, but they have fairly decent prices compared to their competitors. If you need anything out of the ordinary I wouldn't recommend them, but for normal stuff their OK. I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Fri Aug 22 00:50:32 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though > since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the > 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the > Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take > Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. > > Zane I've tried using Amiga mice on Commodore 8-bits some time ago and don't think I had any luck, but I could be wrong. As for mice, I believe CMD still sells 1351 clones but if your patient, I may be throwing my whole collection/mess of computer stuff up for sale and I've got about 5 mice for 8-bitters. LeS more@crazy.rutgers.edu From ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Aug 22 03:41:22 1997 From: ds_spenc at alcor.concordia.ca (Doug Spence) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though > since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the > 64. An Amiga mouse will *NOT* work. In fact, I think if you plug an Amiga mouse into the C64, it won't power up. I tried it once, got scared, and didn't try it again. :) (Actually, my Action Replay cartridge menu came up, but wouldn't let me leave the cartridge menu.) I haven't tried plugging my C64's mouse into my Amiga to see what happens. > Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the > Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take > Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. Atari and Amiga mice aren't interchangable (though some mice have a switch on them to select Atari or Amiga), but I've HEARD (note that this is hearsay and not fact) that Atari mice will work on the C64. I don't have an ST, so I can't test that. BTW, it's the Commodore 1351 mouse that the GEOS user would want. The 1350 is just a joystick in mouse's clothing. I've actually got two CBM 1351 mice, but one of them has the jitters and it's already promised to a friend if I ever get around to fixing it (dead capacitor?). Another friend of mine has one as well (I got it for him at a garage sale) so they seem to be easily available. And yes, I DO know people who still use the C64 as their only computer. :) Doug Spence ds_spenc@alcor.concordia.ca From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Fri Aug 22 05:38:55 1997 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 Message-ID: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> After all the discussion here recently about collecting PDP11's I have located one which I intend negotiating for. I haven't actually seen it yet. It is a PDP11/15, a model number that I haven't seem mentioned. Is there a listing somewhere on the web that describes the various models as there is for PDP8's ? This one apparently dates from about 1970, and is probably incomplete. There was talk of a rack, the PDP11/15 itself, some RKO5 disk drives and some boxes labelled PDP11/10 which may be other computers. There is no other IO device other than front panel switches. Could this equipment be used with a more recent terminal? I have no chance of finding a card reader or teletype but have access to several VT220's. From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Aug 22 05:45:23 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: 7-pin VIC PS Connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970822064523.006b81a0@mail.wincom.net> At 02:13 PM 8/21/97 UT, you wrote: >Is the 7-pin power connector on certain VIC-20's the same as the power supply >on the C64?? I just got a couple VIC's of this type with no power supplies. > >TIA! > >+============================================+ >| Rich Cini/WUGNET >| >+============================================+ > > Yes, I used the same power supply on both Vics and C-64s on Monday with no problem. Charlie Fox From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Aug 22 07:38:06 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: FW: Tape drives available Message-ID: <33fe87ac.807614838@mail.wizards.net> If any of you have need of a very decent 525 MB SCSI tape drive, check with this fellow. This is an excellent price for what he describes, though he does not appear to be aware that DC6525 tapes exist. ;-) -=-=- -=-=- I have the following for sale: Archive Viper 2525 25583 Rev 002 SCSI tape backup units. Comes in external enclosure with Unisys Tape Streamer marked on it. Uses DC-6150 (150 MB uncompressed) and DC-6250 (250 MB uncompressed) tapes. Tested with Novastor Tape Backup and Cheyenne Tape Backup and Seagate Backup Exec. Novastor has software compression to double capacity. Works great. The unit has a SCSI selector switch and two large 50 pin SCSI connectors on back of unit. $50 + shipping. Thanks, James (jevans2@sisna.com) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Aug 22 08:16:24 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Anyone ever? Message-ID: <199708221314.IAA21049@sunflower.com> Anyone ever run STiK on an ATARI ST? I have it up and it works, but I can't seem to get a DNS resolution, If i manually put in IP's its works and connects, say to IRC. But I can't get it to resolve names against IP's I have the entries in Default.cfg that the docs SAY that works, but it dosn't appear to. Line is NAMESERVER x.x.x.x and NAMESERVER0 x.x.x.x obviously, in my configuration I have the ip's for our nameservers. From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 22 09:19:55 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Tandy Model I Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Brett wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Tony Duell wrote: > > It sounds like it might be working. It's been a long time since I booted my > > Model 1, but from memory, if the ROM basic detects a disk controller, it > > attempts to boot from drive 0, and hangs if it can't do so. > Also! Remember that the last drive in the chain must be the model 1160 > as it is the one with the terminator! If you don't have an 1160 it may not > boot at ALL. If you have both, the first drive (I think) is always drive 0 > and that is where the boot disk should go. I've run enough Mod I systems with no termination, with multiple, the things aren't picky. The only reason to buy a 26-1160 was to get the DOS and documentation, otherwise you could save $100 and get a 26-1161 and if you were worried about it you could go next door to the regular Radio Shack (my RSCC was adjacent) and buy a terminator for $.99. Nobody that I knew ever bought two 26-1160 drives. -- Ward Griffiths "the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 21 17:01:13 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708221403.HAA21663@mx4.u.washington.edu> > > > For Switch #1: > > For Switch #2 (some obscure combos not typed in) > > It seems to me that one of the sacred switches will put the machine into > an endless loop of reboots - just after the self tests, etc., the machine > would boot again. > > I did not know about this, and had a machine that had this "problem". A > trip to the library solved it. You guys may be talking about Switch 1-1 -- which, for an XT, will do this. Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t 386.) I'd like to add an 8086 motherboard to my collection...anyone have one? From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 21 16:52:58 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708221404.HAA19794@mx5.u.washington.edu> Um...not quite. Please see my post. ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: RE: Computers (fwd) > Date: Monday, August 18, 1997 9:30 PM > > >From the handy "Programmer's PC Sourcebook" by Thom Hogan, Microsoft > Press, ISBN 1-55615-321-X: > > For Switch #1: > > Switch 1: number of drives, ON=drives installed, OFF=no drives (see > switch 7/8) > Switch 2: Not used, must be ON > Switch 3 & 4: Memory on system board > ON ON = 16K (PC1) or 64K (PC2) > OFF ON = 32K (PC1) or 128K (PC2) > ON OFF = 48K (PC1) or 192K (PC2) > OFF OFF = 64K (PC1) or 256K (PC2) > Switch 5 & 6: Display adapter > ON ON = no adapter > OFF ON = CGA 40 > ON OFF = CGA 80 > OFF OFF = MDA or >1 adapter > Switch 7 & 8: Floppy drives > ON ON = 1 drive > OFF ON = 2 drives > ON OFF = 3 drives > OFF OFF = 4 drives > > For Switch #2 (some obscure combos not typed in) > Switches 1-5: Memory Installed > ON ON ON ON ON = 16-64K (Switches 3 & 4 control total memory) > OFF ON ON ON = 96K (for this and below switches 3 & 4 should be OFF) > ON OFF ON ON ON = 128K > ON OFF OFF ON ON = 256K > ON ON ON OFF ON = 320K > ON OFF ON OFF ON = 384K > ON OFF OFF OFF ON = 512K > ON OFF ON ON OFF = 640K > Switches 6-8: Not Used, must be OFF (switch 7 reserved for 8087 on PC2) > > Kai From gram at cnct.com Fri Aug 22 09:44:33 1997 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199708221403.HAA21663@mx4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, PG Manney wrote: > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t > 386.) K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} -- Ward Griffiths "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." [Denis Diderot, "Dithyrambe sur la fete de rois"] From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 09:35:51 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Ward Griffiths and/or Lisa Rogers wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, PG Manney wrote: > > > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. > > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even > > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t > > 386.) > > K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} It took 45 minutes to BOOT on my 386SX/25, because I only has 2 meg of ram. After I killed a few gettys, it worked just fine. It took about 2 hours to install. So, on an 8-bit bus, and at less spped, I'd say 2-3 hours for a medium install. Maybe. Been a while since I installed it, I never had to reinstall. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 22 15:39:44 1997 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 Message-ID: <9707228722.AA872290046@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Since no-one seems to have answered this, I shall put my bit in. I am no PDP expert, though. > After all the discussion here recently about collecting PDP11's I have > located one which I intend negotiating for. I haven't actually seen it yet. > > It is a PDP11/15, a model number that I haven't seem mentioned. Is there a > listing somewhere on the web that describes the various models as there is > for PDP8's ? The 11/15 and 11/20 were two variants of the original PDP11 CPU, which came out in 1970 (I think). The processor itself may have been called the KA11, but I am not sure of this. The difference between them was system configuration, AFAIK. > This one apparently dates from about 1970, and is probably incomplete. > There was talk of a rack, the PDP11/15 itself, some RKO5 disk drives and > some boxes labelled PDP11/10 which may be other computers. There is no > other IO device other than front panel switches. PDP 11/10 is usually an 11/05 variant (again the difference is configuration of the system), dating from c. 1974 (and full of TTL - 74XX device codes and 74XX date codes can be very confusing). But I have heard rumours of an 11/15 variant of that name. No doubt Allison, Tim or Tony will tell you all about this. One day I shall get my 11/10 working... > Could this equipment be used with a more recent terminal? I have no chance > of finding a card reader or teletype but have access to several VT220's. AFAIK it will require a current loop interface. Some quite late terminals had this feature - I use something called a Westward Graphics Terminal. Philip. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 22 10:45:00 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> from "Olminkhof" at Aug 22, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: <9708221445.AA04890@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 487 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970822/34653629/attachment-0001.ksh From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 22 10:24:10 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: hhc eproms (fwd) Message-ID: Here's something from our friend Mike. Please send all replies to him. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mikeooo1@aol.com To: dastar@crl.com Subject: hhc eproms Sam, I didn't hear from you before so can you let me know if there is going to be any need for HHC eproms? I am sitting on approx. 5000 of them which I have received a salvage offer of $1.25/lb for and I'm probably going to take,but I don't want to put anyone in a position where they are requested but now not available like before with the HHC's.So I would appreciate you letting me know. Thanks Mike From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Aug 22 10:53:11 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708221553.AA21911@world.std.com> <> > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coproces <> > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Ev <> > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s <> > 386.) <> <> K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} I have an xt class machine with an inboard386 and linux is not possible as it only has 1meg of ram and the expansion is off the inboard. FYI the inboard386 was an 386SX/16 compared the the v20 at 4.77mhz it's fast! Allison From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 14:04:04 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: RA81 problem found! Message-ID: Ha! Got it! The drive READY light had one of the little posts broken off, that's why it never booted! It was drive 1! But I have to wait till I'm off the clock & my boss leaves before I can test the theory... From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Aug 22 14:20:48 1997 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: 8" disk alignment Message-ID: <19970822122048.09cac3a5.in@mail.pressstart.com> > Tony Duell said: >5.25" and 3.5" alignment disks are still available (but expect to pay $100 >a time...). I can't find 3" (Amstrad, etc) or 8" alignment disks anywhere, >alas... I don't know if anyone's responded to this yet. (I'm behind in my mail again). But you might try Accurite Technologies Inc. here in the bay area. They're at http://www.accurite.com When I talked to them about a year ago, they said they believe that they are the only ones in the world still making 8" alignment disks. They sell both 8" analog alignment diskettes and 8" digital diagnostic diskettes. Don't quote me on this but, I seem to remember them saying that the 8" diskettes were $65 each. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From dastar at crl.com Fri Aug 22 14:07:34 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: hhc eproms (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199708221624.AA19136@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Allison J Parent wrote: > < I didn't hear from you before so can you let me know if there is going > > At that price I'll consider a few pounds+ shipping. Di I contact him > direct? Is he willing for say do a two pound package for say $5 +shipping? > to multiple respondents or would he like to see 10 pound blocks? I'd be > willing to do say 10# if I had others willing to pay say 10-15% over my cost > for packing materials for smaller distributions. This intent is that I'd > want to recoup my cost. I should've posted his e-mail address for replies. Sorry. He's at Mikeooo1@aol.com. Talk to him directly about working out a bulk deal. I'm sure he'd be happy to work something out. I have no involvment in the deal. Thanks! Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Aug 22 16:39:57 1997 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: 9-track tape drive: What is this? In-Reply-To: Tony Duell's message of Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:47:48 +0100 (BST) References: Message-ID: <199708222139.OAA09837@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Tony Duell writes: > [IEEE488/centronics/whatever connectors] > >From the HP-97S user manual (I have one on loan for a demonstration in a > few weeks...) > > 'Your peripheral device is connected to the HP-97S interface with a > standard 25-pair telephone connector (Amphenol 57-30500 or equivalent)' Ah. Yes, we used to call the 50-pin version a telephone or telco connector because, well, that's where we used to find most of them: going to a 5-line office phone, or on the side of a punch-block. But HP-IB and Centronics printer connectors didn't have enough pins to be called telco connectors. Besides, HP-IB used bigger, stackable screws, and Centronics printer connectors had those ears. It wasn't 'til I saw the 50-pin Centronicsish SCSI connector that I started to get confused. -Frank McConnell From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 17:03:48 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Darn! Darn darn darn! RA81 problems continue: No O/S? Message-ID: I plugged everything up, and fired her up. b du and b du0 hit the harddisk for a second, then it returns to the ODT prompt. Does this mean no O/S? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Fri Aug 22 17:20:48 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Wait! Crossed cable! It booted, it booted! Message-ID: It booted! It's up! I have no idea what to do! And it IS RSTS/E! From sinasohn at crl.com Fri Aug 22 18:37:13 1997 From: sinasohn at crl.com (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Old arcade game? Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970822163928.7e5f5666@ricochet.net> At 08:50 PM 8/21/97 -0500, you wrote: >flakes all over it from that age. Anyway, it was simply a black and white >game in which you control a motorcycle (a white dot or line) down the >road, again white lines, and try not to die. A very simple game. I also There was a game called "Night Driver" that was similar. It too was simple graphically, with a pair of dotted(?) lines scrolling downward to indicate the edge of the road. It would bend right and left -- curves -- and you had to steer between them. Had a real steering wheel and an accellerator pedal, possibly a high-low gear shift as well. I know there was a sit-down model, there may have been a stand-up version as well. It was incredibly simple, especially compared to some of the high-end, need-a-pentium-and-3d-video-card games out today, but it was actually a lot of fun. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 22 17:44:56 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> from "Olminkhof" at Aug 22, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1859 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970822/6fea8007/attachment-0001.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 16:21:32 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: References: <199708221031.DAA02446@mx3.u.washington.edu> from "Olminkhof" at Aug 22, 97 08:38:55 pm Message-ID: <199708230120.VAA25197@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > > I believe the 11/15 is the OEM version of the 11/20 - the first ever > PDP11. Don't worry about the 'OEM' bit - the only difference seems to > have been what was included when you ordered the machine from DEC. Both > versions could take the same peripherals, etc. > > > > > This one apparently dates from about 1970, and is probably incomplete. > > There was talk of a rack, the PDP11/15 itself, some RKO5 disk drives and > > An RK05 is a front-loading 2.5Mbyte (!) hard disk. I find them pretty solid > and reliable (apart from the blower fans, which seem to break down and > catch fire!), and have no problems maintaining them. Even head Really what kind of "flaming" blower are you talkign about? That one that sounded like jet? > replacements are possible. Really? I did not know that new heads can be had. Nice! Is that either internal or removeable that uses same DECPACK cartidge? And to hook up uses spring loaded screw to snug up the connections to PDP unit? Cool discussions of chips...snip! Oh gad, I had the VT220 too! Geez. Jason D. From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 22 21:18:35 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PRELIMINARY Vintage Computer Festival Announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970822191835.006bc688@ferrari.sfu.ca> I'd be interested in attending this if it goes ahead, and if anybody is collecting stats on potential attendance. Kevin At 12:05 AM 97/08/14 -0700, you wrote: > >This announcement is aimed to inform the members of the classiccmp >community of the plans for the upcoming Vintage Computer Festival and is >not intended for general distribution. > > >Vintage Computer Festival > >The Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) is an event held to celebrate computers >and their history. Due to the incredible pace of computing technology, >computers at least ten years and older are the main focus of this event. > >Meet other collectors to trade tips, stories and even computers, hear talks >by notable computer industry figures, attend workshops geared towards the >vintage computer collector, visit the on-site interactive vintage computer >museum. Two days of celebrating the science and technology of our diverse >computer heritage! > >Event Highlights > >Vintage Pioneer (Featured Speaker) > > TBA - Candidates include Steve Wozniak (Inventor and co-founder of Apple > Computer), Lee Felsenstein (Inventor of the SOL-20 Computer), Chris > Espinosa (Legendary Programmer, Apple Computer). > >Guest Speakers > > TBA - Candidates include Jodelle French (Curator, Intel Museum), Robert > X. Cringely (Author of _Accidental Empires_, Producer of _Triumph of the > Nerds_ as seen on PBS), Steven Levy (Author of _Hackers_), Paul Fridell > (Designer of IBM 5120), Kip Crosby (President of Computer History > Association of California) > >Vintage Computer Spotlight > > Each year a classic computer is chosen to be featured in the Vintage > Computer Spotlight. This year, being the 20th anniversary of the > Apple ][, what else but the Apple ][ will be featured. > > What's more, each year's Vintage Computer Spotlight subject will be > the grand-prize of the end-of-show drawing. All attendees will be > automatically entered to win this year's Spotlight computer, an > original Apple ][ with Integer BASIC ROMS! > >Workshops > >A panel of vintage computer collectors will give talks on topics relating to >the hobby of classic computer collecting. Discussions will include: > > Restoration and preservation of old computers - external and internal > cleaning tips and techniques; basic electronic repair tips; storage > procedures for the long haul > > Software preservation with a focus on storage tips and techniques for > the long haul > > Computer Collecting 101 - basic computing skills including operation, > disk formats, serial communcations basics, how to recognize computers > and their peripherals > >Vintage Computer Museum > > A hands-on, interactive museum featuring many examples of classic > computing machinery through the years. The exhibit is composed of > artifacts on loan from the collections of organizations and > individuals, and will span the course of decades from the 1950s to > the 1980s. > >Vending > > A swap-meet style vending area where attendees can shop for old, in > some cases antique computers, peripherals, documentation and software. > No IBM clones here, just good old classic computers. > >Where and When > > TBA - Tentative dates: October 18-19, 1997 > > Venue TBA - Tri-Valley Area, East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area) > > Admission - TBD > > > >Sam >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > > --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 21:22:07 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface? References: Message-ID: <33FE494F.F0F53358@rain.org> I was at one of the local thrift stores (a once a month or so experience) and found a Radio Shack TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface unit for $0.90 with manual. Apparently it was marked down from about $3.95 or so to get it gone and I was more than happy to help out at that price even not knowing what it was. After reading the manual, I still don't know but it talks about the portable computer and I see one reference to a model 100. Anyone have more information on this thing as far as what it attaches to? The model 100 is obvious but since it talks about the connecting it to the Portable Computer, are there others this thing might work with? Also since it didn't come with a floppy disk, is this just a standard TRS-DOS or is there something special about it? Finally, it is missing the connecting cable and does anyone have the pinout for it or know where I might find it on-line? Thanks! From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 21:30:07 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 References: Message-ID: <33FE4B2E.FFA23469@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > Maybe I should write a HOW-TO on linking RS232 devices to current-loop > ports. I have a couple of LA-36s DECWriters that can use either RS-232 or current-loop. When I got my first LA-36, I owned a printed circuit board shop. After looking at the RS-232 to current loop adapter board, it looked easy enough to copy so I made up probaby 6 or so (got one in front of me now.) Basically all they contain are two chips (1488 and 1489), a couple of diodes, and a couple of capacitors. It made it easy to convert my other DECWriter from current loop to RS-232. If anyone needs one, I may still have an unstuffed one around someplace. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Aug 22 22:46:00 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Finding and Caring for PDP's or VAX's Message-ID: Hi, For quite some time I've been pondering getting either a PDP or a VAX, I'm wondering about a few things. First and formost would be how does one go about finding one :^) and what kind of price can I expect? Also, what would space and power requirements be? Yes, I'm aware they vary in size from tiny little things, up to systems that require a full sized computer floor. I'm thinking a system that would fit in a garage as far a size goes. Also what would be a good source to familiarize myself with the various models as I embark upon my latest quest? Thanks, Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 21:47:33 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Targa Board update References: <3.0.1.32.19970822191835.006bc688@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <33FE4F44.5711674A@rain.org> After the discussion a couple of months ago about using vintage equipment to capture and digitize photos, I finally got the Targa 16 (circa 1985) installed and semi-working. While I am currently using a 386-25 or so computer with it now, the programming manual makes reference to it working with the ATT 6300 so as soon as everything works fine on the 386, I'll transfer everything over to the 6300 and see what happens then. As for the camera, I am using a Minolta Color Video Camera model K-800S AF in conjunction with a Hitachi Video Tuner and Portable Cassette Recorder unit. I don't know the dates on this unit but it should be early to mid 80's technology. I also have a General Electric Tuner, Color Camera, and Video Cassette Recorder that is early 80's. I am still missing the TrueVision TIPS software (the main program disk is corrupted) but I did get some leads on a couple places in town that used to use the Targa board and still might have them and the software laying around. One nice thing about TrueVision is they are still in business and have a web page to provide support. After checking it out, I picked up the Targa 16 software they had there including the C Source code for their sample program. As soon as I figure out what is required, I'll recompile their stuff into a semi-custom program that will display the image on the screen, and capture it to disk when I press the space bar (or ??? key.) At least there is a little bit of progress! From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 18:11:02 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Floppie Follies In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970819132245.009e4700@mail.northernway.net> References: <199708191718.NAA29638@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199708230309.XAA11961@mail.cgocable.net> Nip! > Yessireebob, me to. I do a fair amt. of travelling, and I like the sturdier > case of the 3.5" microfloppies. (tho, if I could find more 2" drives, I'd > be _really_ happy then! ;-) > > >Tony, well, what's about the Fuji disks? I abused them and used it > >too much and they do last and keep data better. Dysan, Maxwell and > >lesser disks gets the bit rot. The good test is to view them through > >bright light and pick a very dark, uninform areas, if you see shades > >of spots or stripes of lighter and dark areas, they're flunked. > >My second choice is 3M but I wonder where they are still made. :) Just found another reasoanble generic floppy today...very close to fuij but I do not know who makes this brand called: ViewMaster, the box is cardboard 2 piece type, white, with blue shade going white downwards, says formatted for ibm compatiable, ViewMaster certified 100% error free, MFD-2HD, box of 10pcs. Cost about 7 dollar CDN. I formatted 20 of them without any problems just in case! BTW, don't do formatting on win95 when running 6 processes all idle, it gave me lot of "baddie disks than straight dos. :)) But whom did this "ViewMaster"??? Nip! Jason D. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 18:25:50 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Targa Board update In-Reply-To: <33FE4F44.5711674A@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708230324.XAA14140@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! > After the discussion a couple of months ago about using vintage equipment to > capture and digitize photos, I finally got the Targa 16 (circa 1985) > installed and semi-working. While I am currently using a 386-25 or so > computer with it now, the programming manual makes reference to it working > with the ATT 6300 so as soon as everything works fine on the 386, I'll > transfer everything over to the 6300 and see what happens then. As for the > camera, I am using a Minolta Color Video Camera model K-800S AF in > conjunction with a Hitachi Video Tuner and Portable Cassette Recorder unit. > I don't know the dates on this unit but it should be early to mid 80's > technology. I also have a General Electric Tuner, Color Camera, and Video > Cassette Recorder that is early 80's. I am still missing the TrueVision > TIPS software (the main program disk is corrupted) but I did get some leads > on a couple places in town that used to use the Targa board and still might > have them and the software laying around. > Cushy comments about Targa stuff...snipped! Wait a minute! That AT&T 6300 is 8088 type machine? That would make a very poor image scanner system for this! Why doing downgrading from that nice 386-25 system? Beside that, 386 technology is now over 10 years now since '85 the year Intel introduced that chip? That would include all of my 386 of portable and one notebook! :) And one testbed too. ahem. Jason D. From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 22 22:31:48 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:51 2005 Subject: Targa Board update References: <199708230324.XAA14140@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <33FE59A4.4C3F5CFF@rain.org> jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca wrote: ents about Targa stuff...snipped! > Wait a minute! > > That AT&T 6300 is 8088 type machine? That would make a very poor > image scanner system for this! > > Why doing downgrading from that nice 386-25 system? Beside that, 386 > technology is now over 10 years now since '85 the year Intel > introduced that chip? Well, the Targa card takes care of the scanning and "all" the computer does is interface to the images passing through the Targa card so the 8088 should work fine. The 386 is still too new for my blood and I want to use the oldest computer I can find. Matter of fact, if I can get it to work on the original 4.77 MHz IBM XT, I'll do it. I'd use the PC but I am a bit spoiled by the use of a HD :). From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Fri Aug 22 18:50:59 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Targa Board update In-Reply-To: <33FE59A4.4C3F5CFF@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708230349.XAA17531@mail.cgocable.net> Mavin, Sheesh! Even a AT type 2 motherboard in it would cut better and give you support for 1.44 if you use a different setup disk. OLD SCSI card and a 8" 330mb SCSI would do well! With lot of memory cards stuffed in ISA slots. (Yuk). :) Jason D. > > Well, the Targa card takes care of the scanning and "all" the computer does > is interface to the images passing through the Targa card so the 8088 should > work fine. The 386 is still too new for my blood and I want to use the > oldest computer I can find. Matter of fact, if I can get it to work on the > original 4.77 MHz IBM XT, I'll do it. I'd use the PC but I am a bit spoiled > by the use of a HD :). From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 22 21:38:39 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Anyone ever? In-Reply-To: <199708221314.IAA21049@sunflower.com> Message-ID: <199708230611.CAA03854@smtp.interlog.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 08:16:24 -0500 Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Bill Girnius" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Anyone ever? X-To: "Classic" Anyone ever run STiK on an ATARI ST? I have it up and it works, but I can't seem to get a DNS resolution, If i manually put in IP's its works and connects, say to IRC. But I can't get it to resolve names against IP's I have the entries in Default.cfg that the docs SAY that works, but it dosn't appear to. Line is NAMESERVER x.x.x.x and NAMESERVER0 x.x.x.x obviously, in my configuration I have the ip's for our nameservers. If you have access to newsgroups you could try comp.sys.atari.st The programmers of the package stik-cab are often online and i-net connectivity is one of the major threads. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 22 21:38:42 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199708230611.CAA03862@smtp.interlog.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 21:36:38 -0800 Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | No, even though they have the same joystick 9-pin DIN Amiga and ST mice won't work . I've tried it . Has to do with the digital-analogue thing I believe. ciao larry From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Aug 22 21:38:48 1997 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199708230612.CAA03870@smtp.interlog.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 01:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Mr. Self Destruct" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: C-64c ?? Weekend finds... X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers On Thu, 21 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I THINK that an Amiga mouse will work, I'm afraid I can't test that though > since I don't think I've got anything that will work with a mouse for the > 64. Also an Atari mouse might work, haven't checked to see if the > Amiga/Atari mice are interchangable. All are computers that will take > Atari Joysticks, and use the same port for mice. > > Zane I've tried using Amiga mice on Commodore 8-bits some time ago and don't think I had any luck, but I could be wrong. As for mice, I believe CMD still sells 1351 clones but if your patient, I may be throwing my whole collection/mess of computer stuff up for sale and I've got about 5 mice for 8-bitters. LeS more@crazy.rutgers.edu Put my name on your list, if you do. ciao larry From danjo at xnet.com Sat Aug 23 09:23:41 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: East Coast PDP's Message-ID: Boy I thought I had lost this one 8-( But NOPE I found it! Harvard seems to have an excess. I can't get there but you people on the East Caost may have a beter chance. Please talk to Clifford. > From chen47@fas.harvard.edu Mon Aug 11 19:55:23 1997 > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT) > From: Clifford Chen > To: Brett > Subject: Re: PDP-11 miscellany for sale Hi. Sorry for the extreme delay, but we've had quite a time organizing and documenting our stuff. In any case, here's the list we drew up: Hardware: 1 Digital Decscope (vt-52) 1 Heathkit H19 Terminal (vt-52?) 2 DecWriter II's 1 PDP-11/05 1 PDP-Industrial 11 (a model 35, I think) 1 RK-05 drive + interface 1 Card reader 9+ bus interfaces 1 RK-07 disk drive and 48 inch rack 2 Expansion boxes with power supplies 3 extra power supplies lots of unidentifiable circuit boards 1 RL-01 disk 1 Nashua 15-12 disk a bunch of RK-05 cartridges 1 MT-11 Tape drive and rack Documentation: 1) RT-11 System Reference Manual 2) Programming RSX-11 in Macro and Fortran 3) Workbook for 2) 4) RSX-11 Task Builder manual 5) RSX-11 I/O drivers reference manual 6) RT-11 Software Support Manual 7) RT-11 System Message Manual 8) RT-11 Programmer's Reference Manual 9) RSX-11M PDP-11 Record Management System 10) RSX-11M System generation and installation 11) PDP-11 DL-11 asynchronous line interface engineering drawings 12) RK-05 Engineering drawings 13) KW11-2 Engineering drawings 14) Bootstrap Terminator schematics 15) BA-11-K Mounting box manual 16) RK-07 Schematics 17) KT-11D Memory Manager schematics 18) ME-11L Core memory Schematics 19) KE11-F Floating Instruction Set Schematics 20) TM11 DEC Magtape Schematics 21) KW11-P Programmable Real-time clock Schematics 22) TU10 DEC Magtape engineering drawings 23) Power supply/chassis engineering drawings 24) DL-11 Asynchronous Line interface schematics 25) H720 Power supply and rackmount drawings 26) RK-711N schematics 27) DL-11 Asynchronous line interface schematics 28) Restart Loader schematic 29) KT-11D Memory Manager 30) PDP-11/05 engineering drawings 31) LAXX-KG drawings 32) RK-05J engineering drawings 33) More RK-05 engineering drawings 34) RK-11D disk controller schematics 35) RK-611 schematics 36) KD-11A schematics 37) Qume daisywheel manual and schematics 38) Heathkit terminal manual 39) RK-07 manual and schematics 40) DECwriter 2 manual 41) Model 1770 memory manual 42) KT-11 memory manager manual 43) DL-11 asynchronous line interface manual 44) RT-11 Software Support Manual 45) RT-11 System User's guide 46) RT-11 Documentation Directory 47) RT-11 System reference manual 48) Qume interface manual 49) RX-02 floppy manual 50) RT-11 Programmer's manual 51) RT-11 System release notes 52) RT-11 Fortran manual 53) Kermit Manual 54) DSR (text formatter) manual 55) RT-11 intro 56) Decwriter II maintenance manual 57) RT-11 Basic manual 58) RT-11 software support manual 59) LISP manual 60) ODT Reference (RSX-11) 61) RSX-11 Crash dump analyer manual 62) RSX-11 Error logging 63) RSX-11 System Library routines 64) RSX-11 diagnostics 65) RSX-11 System library update notice 66) RSX-11 Program development 67) RSX-11 I/O operations 68) Random pages from a 1984 Byte magazine 69) Centronics Series 100 Printer manual 70) M200 Card Reader manual 71) Raytheon PDP-11 repair manual 72) RX211 floppy controller drawings 73) KT-11D memory management manual 74) KW11-L programmable clock manual 75) DL-11 asynchronous line manual 76) MM11S, MF-11L, MF11-D core memory systems 77) BA11K mounting box manual 78) DL-11 asynchronous line manual 79) XXDP - PDP11 diagnostic manual 80) MS11-L MOS memory users guide 81) PDP-11/05-s, PDP-11/10-s system manual 82) BA11K mounting box 83) BA11K technical manual 84) DL-11 asynchronous line manual 85) DR11-W direct memory interface module 86) BA-11K engineering drawings BC -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Name: Classic Computer Rescue List URL: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html Name: The Classic Computer Encyclopedia Page URL: http://www.xnet.com/~danjo/classic/ Name: Classic Computer ListOp URL: http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp/ From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Sat Aug 23 12:25:16 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: 1620 Emulator Runs First Program! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970822191835.006bc688@ferrari.sfu.ca> from "Kevin McQuiggin" at Aug 22, 97 07:18:35 pm Message-ID: <199708231725.KAA03018@fraser> Hi All: For you IBM 1620 fans, this is to let you know that my 1620 emulator has reached "first light" stage and has run its first program. This is a simple 3-liner that counts 1, 2, 4, 8, ... About two thirds of the instruction set has been written, pretty soon I will be able to write some more complex programs, and, importantly, be able to try running some original 1620 software. Thanks to those who have provided me with "real" software - I have SPS and FORTRAN which should eventually run on the emulator. More later, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 23 13:51:11 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. Message-ID: This is getting to be a real pain... Sometimes it boots, most times it won't. Usual response is I say b du or b du0 It hits the disk twice, and halts at 050110. I have run the RA down all it's diags in the manual, no faults. Same for when it boots. The UDA50 does running lights too. Doesn't matter if I use A or B. Only difference there is A lights up sometimes and B doesn't. Cables look fine. What's going on? Does it just hate me? Also, when RSTS/E does come up, it sometimes traps to 4. Timeout/sysfail vector. Something says this drive is going... From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Aug 23 10:25:53 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Lisa II Power supply wanted in Bay Area... In-Reply-To: <199708201625.RAA02399@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Message-ID: <199708231924.PAA29402@mail.cgocable.net> Hello! Best way is have monitor shop or someone who repairs electronics fetched repair the lisa's power supply module. You can take it out as a unit from back after popping the back by hand. :) No screws needed. Nice! Better rebuild it with new capacitors and few semiconductors as needed to replace any burnt parts, the main switching transformer ever very rarely fail. No point to have a dead and a working power supply if it's so rare item! The cost of labor and components are not that much compared to overall of the value of this lisa, the LISA itself is very collectiable item! There's are two types of this power supplies. Jason D. > Hi, > > I have been looking for a power supply for my Lisa II for some time now, > but as Lisa seem to be very rare in the UK I have had no luck so far. I > guess they are more common in the US, so I am putting out this email in > the hope of finding someone who has a spare they can let me have. > > I know of someone who would be willing to transport one back from the > Bay Area this weekend which would be real good because it would save a > lot in shipping costs. > > Many thanks for listening... > > -- > Kevan > > Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ > > > > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 15:34:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 23, 97 01:51:11 pm Message-ID: <9708231934.AA02452@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 947 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/700f9bb9/attachment-0001.ksh From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Sat Aug 23 10:36:55 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Maybe not here-floppy for Toshiba In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708231935.PAA00952@mail.cgocable.net> Hi! If DOS complains disk is not there or unreadable, there are tanished switches. Have someone measure two switches for decent low resistance if it's not clean break/make contacts resistances, it is a bit pain of taking it apart and clean those tanish off the silver plated copper plates. Be careful of fine sprung spings and little leaf wiget used to short these two contacts. That is all to it. Saved one like that in Toshiba drives of all kinds, Fixed 4 of them for pc standard and one for T5200/100. Those citizen/Toshiba drives are very rugged for heavy use. Those new Panasonic/Teac/cheapo ones most of time are not up to this kind of much use as I seen so far! Jason D. > I know that this really doesn't belong here, but in some circles, the old > Toshiba laptop that I have may be considered a classic! > > Anyway, I'm looking for help finding an internal floppy drive for my Toshiba > 3100/20 laptop. It's a portable, non-battery Red plasma laptop, with a > messed-up 720k floppy drive. Does anyone know where I can get one of these. > Toshiba want's over $150 for one, and I won't pay that for a crappy 720k drive > on a free machine. > > Any leads appreciated! > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > rcini@msn.com From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 23 15:07:46 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: <9708231934.AA02452@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Time to get down to basics: what boards are in this system? How > are they configured? Which version of RSTS/E? And we're off! Every little bit I can come up with. The system is in two cabinets. Two BA11s. I have an RA81 for the boot drive, two TU58s in the main cabinet, the console terminal (A Wyse 30 for now), and a real funny plug in the system case. 3 rows of wires in a printer-style plug. LP11? BA11 #1: This is the system box, BTW. The one whose power cord I hacked up. The DEC power cord is 120VAC, 1 phase, etc etc. But it has a sideways pin. So I whacked the end off a PC cable, soldered the appropriate pin to the appropriate wire, and plugged her in. It worked. The power controller plug was too wierd to mess with. Slot 1 M7090 2 Empty 3 M7093 4 M7094 5 M7095 6 M7096 7 M7097 8 M7098 9 M8743 BF 10 M8722 BB 11 M8722 BB 12 M8722 BC 13 Grant Contnuity jumper 14 M9202 and GCJ 15 other end of M9202 and GCJ 16 M8719 17 M8719 18 M7258 19 M7297 and M7296 20 Unlabled 21 Same 22 M5904 23 M5904 24 M5904 25 GCJ 26 M9300 and GCJ 27 Bus extender ribbons and GCJ Raised the BA11 and checked out the backplane. Looks fine. BA11 #2 1 Other end of bus extender and GCJ 2 M8719 3 M8719 4 M920 and GCJ 5 Other end and M7297 and M7296 6 M7295 7 M7294 8 M5904 9 M5904 10 M5904 11 M9300 and GCJ 12 M9300 and GCJ 13 M9202 and GCJ 14 other end and GCJ 15 M7486 16 M7485 17 GCJ > > RSTS/E is *extremely* picky about configuration > details. If some boards have been pulled and/or added without > carefully following the rules about ordering CSR's and vectors, it's > not surprising that RSTS/E falls and can't get up. Not even booting? And when it does boot, I get LP0: device not interrupting - disabled or something like that From william at ans.net Sat Aug 23 15:52:30 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: HP Paper Tape Reader In-Reply-To: <199708231725.KAA03018@fraser> Message-ID: <199708232052.AA22243@interlock.ans.net> While digging about at the old homestead, I uncovered a bit of stuff I had forgoten about momentarily. It is a Hewlett Packard 4070 paper tape reader/punch. I obtained this with my 2100A system, laying about all over the place because the original owner wanted to keep the rack. Anyway, this thing is quite small, so I will be able to take it back to New York on the plane. We, at RCS/RI, have been looking for a *gentle* paper tape machine, as we have loads of software for machines we have (namely LINC-8 (PDP-8,8/S) and Interdata model 4). What type of interface does this little thing like? Would it be good for reading tapes approaching their 30th birthday? Do any HP people out there know? William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 17:32:37 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 23, 97 08:07:46 pm Message-ID: <9708232132.AA06761@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1710 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/217467d8/attachment-0001.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 16:29:03 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: What's this ISA card? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/d5b626e3/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Sat Aug 23 16:48:30 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: <9708232132.AA06761@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: > 1. You've got two RH11's in the system, but (as far as I can tell) > you've got no Massbus peripherals. Why not pull the RH11 system units? Okay. I'd like to trim this down to one cabinet anyway. > > 2. Why is there no Unibus terminator at the end of the bus? (Or > did you just leave it out?) > Oh, crap. There's the problem? > 3. Are the M9300's sitting in RH11 system units? Just looking > at your list above, I can't see why they'd be in the middle of the > Unibus at all. M9300's are terminators, and unless there's a very > special reason, they generally are only at the end of the bus. Not sure, I stuck one on the end of the bus - everything started working! > > Generally, I think it'd be wise to pull all the unused cruft (esp RH11's!) > and get the entire system in one box. > > "Not Interrupting" to me often indicates a problem with interrupt > continuity. And if the interrupts aren't getting through, it's > extremely surprising that any DMA to your RA81's is being done > at all... > Now it didn't. Apparently, someone moved some terminators around. Looks fine now! > Tim. > From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 18:15:30 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems.u In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 23, 97 09:48:30 pm Message-ID: <9708232215.AA05816@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/747d8953/attachment-0001.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Aug 23 20:22:55 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: FW: SMD Disk drive, FREE to good home -- UK Message-ID: <34008ca0.18839790@mail.wizards.net> Can one of our UK readers help with this? Fellow's got an SMD drive free to the first caller. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- I have a surplus Fujitsu M2333K (330MB) SMD drive to give away. This is an 8" unit with power supply, and - as far as I know - in working order. It's presently in a small cabinet which was built to hold four of these units. Pressure of space forces me to get rid of it, so it's free to a good home, providing you collect it from York (UK). Otherwise, sadly, it will contribute to some landfill site... Pete Tel. York (01904) 488699 -=-=- -=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT. SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS. Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam, period..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 16:36:52 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. In-Reply-To: <9708232132.AA06761@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 23, 97 02:32:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 669 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/3c96806d/attachment-0001.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 23 23:35:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 23, 97 10:36:52 pm Message-ID: <9708240335.AA07087@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/748f6ae2/attachment-0001.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Aug 24 00:19:51 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: What is this tape cartridge? Message-ID: I was checking out the local surplus shop looking for a 19" rack for my latest computer project, no luck there but I did find some other stuff. What I'm really wondering about is this tape cartridge I found: COUSINO Echo-matic II Self Threading Tape Cartridge Orrtronics, Incorporated Toledo, Ohio, USA It's quarter inch tape in a clear case approximatly 1" x 3.5" x 5" in size, and rounded on one end. The actual tape reel is about 2.25" and has almost no tape on it. The tape looks to be a continous loop. Does anyone have any idea what this is? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 23 23:56:47 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: What is this tape cartridge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I was checking out the local surplus shop looking for a 19" rack for my > latest computer project, no luck there but I did find some other stuff. > > What I'm really wondering about is this tape cartridge I found: > > COUSINO > Echo-matic II > Self Threading > Tape Cartridge > Orrtronics, Incorporated > Toledo, Ohio, USA > > It's quarter inch tape in a clear case approximatly 1" x 3.5" x 5" in size, > and rounded on one end. The actual tape reel is about 2.25" and has almost > no tape on it. The tape looks to be a continous loop. Does anyone have > any idea what this is? > > Zane > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | > +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ > | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | Reaching back more years than I like to think about, I believe that it is a tape for a telephone answering machine. Not the kind that takes messages, but the type that delivered a message to the caller. There may well have been other applications also, but that one rings a faint chime. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From danjo at xnet.com Sun Aug 24 07:09:22 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: What is this tape cartridge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > What I'm really wondering about is this tape cartridge I found: > > > > COUSINO > > Echo-matic II > > Self Threading > > Tape Cartridge > > Orrtronics, Incorporated > > Toledo, Ohio, USA > > > > Zane > > Reaching back more years than I like to think about, I believe that it is > a tape for a telephone answering machine. Not the kind that takes > messages, but the type that delivered a message to the caller. > > There may well have been other applications also, but that one rings a > faint chime. > - don OR 8-) True to its name *Echo-matic II* is it one of those devices used in radio when you you needed needed an an echo echo 8-) It was one of the easiest ways to get a cheap but effective echo. I would find a Radio Professional and query that idea as well. BC From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 14:06:50 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <33FE4B2E.FFA23469@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 22, 97 07:30:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 853 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/e878d5de/attachment-0001.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 23 16:24:09 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 In-Reply-To: <199708230120.VAA25197@mail.cgocable.net> from "jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca" at Aug 22, 97 09:21:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1935 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970823/3594c2a4/attachment-0001.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 24 11:43:34 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: PDP11/15 References: Message-ID: <340064B6.233102B5@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Maybe I should write a HOW-TO on linking RS232 devices to current-loop > > > > ports. > > > > I have a couple of LA-36s DECWriters that can use either RS-232 or > > current-loop. When I got my first LA-36, I owned a printed circuit > board > > shop. After looking at the RS-232 to current loop adapter board, it > looked > > Watch out, this fooled me once years ago... > The RS232 card is, indeed, a 1488 and a 1489, but it's not going to a > current loop on the other side. Ah so, thanks for that info! My recollections are that current loop is available on the LA-36 and I was *assuming* that is where the signal source came from to the RS232 card. From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 24 11:57:06 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970824125704.009463f0@mail.northernway.net> Whilst in a self-induced trance, Marvin happened to blather: >I was at one of the local thrift stores (a once a month or so experience) >and found a Radio Shack TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface unit for $0.90 with >manual. Apparently it was marked down from about $3.95 or so to get it gone >and I was more than happy to help out at that price even not knowing what it >was. After reading the manual, I still don't know but it talks about the >portable computer and I see one reference to a model 100. Anyone have more >information on this thing as far as what it attaches to? The model 100 is >obvious but since it talks about the connecting it to the Portable Computer, >are there others this thing might work with? Also since it didn't come with >a floppy disk, is this just a standard TRS-DOS or is there something special >about it? Finally, it is missing the connecting cable and does anyone have >the pinout for it or know where I might find it on-line? Thanks! Ohhhh... nice buy! They wouldn't happen to have 3 more at that price, would they??? ;-) The DVI as it was shortened to would give 180K floppy (40 track, SSDD, 18SPT) storage and 40x24 & 80x24 VT-52 compatible screen capability to a Tandy 100, 102 (later, lighter, redesigned 100), or the Tandy 200 (which I own). [[ Editor's note: Obviously, you need one of the above-mentioned portables to make use of the DVI... ]] It needs a special cable that I have seen for sale on comp.sys.tandy, and at the for-sale listing at: http://www.value.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/~thedock/c100sale.pl [[ Editor's note: this is a cgi-program accessable from the "For Sale" link at: http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html They also have a wanted listing and a guestbook! ]] It *does* require a boot floppy disk, I believe these are still available at Radio Shack for a few $$$ apiece (at least in the US... not sure about other countries) I have a boot disk for the DVI that boots the Model 100 -- too bad it doesn't seem to work with my T200. :-( I do have the pinouts for the cable, but the connection to the M100 was a specially wired 40-pin DIP cable, that I've heard is mongo-painful to try to build yourself (and, of course, RS doesn't stock those IIRC). The cable for the T200/T102 is easier to build with 40-pin IDC connectors and ribbon cable (I successfully converted an IBM-PC Clone IDE data cable) If you wish more information on this or most anything else from the "Model 'T'" world, just let me know. "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From lwalkern0spam at interlog.com Sun Aug 24 08:45:24 1997 From: lwalkern0spam at interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Replies Message-ID: <199708241735.NAA29675@smtp.interlog.com> My apologies. I have been setting up my "Pegasus" mailer ( a GREAT prg ) and had inadvertedly unchecked the original message indicator. ( > ) ciao larry lwalkernospam@interlog.com remove n0spam to reply From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 24 13:34:38 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: anyone heard of "lobo drives"? Message-ID: <970824143436_956010882@emout04.mail.aol.com> I decided to catalog all my apple ][ stuff this weekend and rediscovered some controller cards and some drive analog cards by a company called lobo drives. they are in good shape, but definately appear to be their age. the circuit boards for the controller cards is almost translucent and they don't seem to have the component or soldering/design quality that later model cards have. several the the analog cards are missing the 74ls125? chip, probably because of incorrect cabling. anyone heard of this company? are the parts worth keeping? david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 24 13:41:18 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: ID these unknown apple cards please. Message-ID: <970824144117_857448454@emout03.mail.aol.com> the first one is a bal-500 eprom programmer. it fits in a slot, but it's too tall to run with the cover on! it's not a pc card either. anyone with info on this? the second is a mpc peripherals ap-32 card. its full length with a language card connector, and empty socket for eprom i guess and 6 leds at the top and a toggle switch at the back. the third one is a full length card called an appli-card by pcpi. the last one is a full length card that looks older than most made by axlon 1981. it has a 34 pin header at the top of the card. lots of 74lxxxx chips. no other identification for this one. i can take pictures of these with my quickcam and make available on my page if need be. if anyone knows anything about these cards, give me a shout please. david From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 24 14:21:51 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: anyone heard of "lobo drives"? References: <970824143436_956010882@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <340089CF.872ED666@rain.org> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I decided to catalog all my apple ][ stuff this weekend and rediscovered > some > controller cards and some drive analog cards by a company called lobo > drives. > they are in good shape, but definately appear to be their age. the circuit > > boards for the controller cards is almost translucent and they don't seem > to > have the component or soldering/design quality that later model cards > have. > several the the analog cards are missing the 74ls125? chip, probably > because > of incorrect cabling. anyone heard of this company? are the parts worth > keeping? Lobo Drives was a company that started here in Santa Barbara sometime in the early '80s putting together and selling 5 1/4" and 8" disk systems. I don't know all the computers their stuff would work with, but I know they would work with the TRS computers. A bit later, they started making their own TRS clone called the MAX80 that got good reviews (as I recall) in the magazines. I wasn't aware they made controller cards for the Apple IIs but I don't have a lot of info on their product line. The company was started by Roger Billings and was sold a number of years later, but I don't know who bought it. Trivia, a friend of mine did much of the early drafting and layout of the circuit boards, and I made some of the engineering prototype boards. From rcini at classic.msn.com Sun Aug 24 15:02:32 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: My weekend DEC haul... Message-ID: Hello, all: I was able to score the following from Temple Univ. on Friday. There is still a load of stuff for older machines, and older machines themselves (such as a load of 11/23s, a handful of 11/40s, two 11/34s, plenty of RL01s, monitors, printers, etc. Too much to report...and I didn't even have time to get to the "documents" room, where they had software and manuals for all of the hardware. I spent over 4 hours there and didn't even scratch the surface. I'll be going back in early-October to get more stuff. Here's what I got: 1 DEC 6' 19" rack with 30a power controller 1 MultiTech modem rack and 2 DEC communications servers. The rack is filled with 10 2400-baud modems. 2 DECMate terminals minus keyboards :-( maybe next time. 1 EPROM programmer/IC tester (no disk; bummer) - Miscellaneous cables 1 RD52 hard drive; bad power supply and the grandaddy of them all: A working VAXstation I. Hadrware/software unknown at this time, although I can identify a console port, an Ethernet AUI port, and 12 serial ports. Now, I have a shopping list for my next trip, and I need to see the docs and software room. Time to play... +============================================+ | Rich Cini/WUGNET | | | | MCP Windows 95 and Windows Networking, | | Charter ClubWin! Member (6) and a | | collector of classic computers | +============================================+ From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Sun Aug 24 15:34:54 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: ID these unknown apple cards please. References: <970824144117_857448454@emout03.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <34009AEE.3881@hiway1.exit109.com> >the third one is a full length card called an appli-card by pcpi. CP/M card, one of the nicer ones. It should have 64K of memory and a 4mhz(IIRC) Z80. There's a guy who runs a web page on Apple II CP/M cards, drop him a note and he sould be able to provide you with system disks. <<>> From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Aug 24 16:34:20 1997 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: IBM PC/Jr?? Message-ID: <199708242139.RAA13822@mail.wincom.net> I am trying to revive a PC Jr. At power on I get two beeps, no video either on the IBM monitor or through the RCA connector. I have tried removing plug-in boards except for power supply, with same results. Also tried two different PC Jr keyboards, plugged in, same results. Does anyone recall what two short beeps indicates on an IBM PC/Jr? Thanks Charlie Fox From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 24 16:59:18 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: IBM PC/Jr?? References: <199708242139.RAA13822@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3400AEB6.6BE10F80@rain.org> Charles E. Fox wrote: > I am trying to revive a PC Jr. At power on I get two beeps, no > video > either on the IBM monitor or through the RCA connector. I have tried > removing plug-in boards except for power supply, with same results. > Also tried two different PC Jr keyboards, plugged in, same results. > Does anyone recall what two short beeps indicates on an IBM PC/Jr? I just checked the PC Jr. Guide to Operations and it was pretty useless as far as finding the problem. Interesting that you plugged in the keyboards. The usual keyboard has an IR link with the base unit and doesn't need to be plugged in. You might try it with the keyboards not plugged in and see what happens. I have found several keyboards where the battery started to leak and caused a bit of damage in the battery compartment of the keyboard itself. Usual Startup sequence: 1) IBM Color Bar Screen w/ correct memory appears. 2) One Beep from system. 3) IBM Basic Screen Appears Further on in the troubleshooting section it asks if you heard any beeps: No - Have the unit serviced. 1 Beep - Go on with the chart. 2 Beeps - Have the unit serviced. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 24 16:48:34 1997 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: RA81 Rides Again! More problems. In-Reply-To: <9708240335.AA07087@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Aug 23, 97 08:35:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2396 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970824/b05bcff7/attachment-0001.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Sat Aug 23 11:08:08 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708251213.FAA07016@mx3.u.washington.edu> > > Switch 1-2 tells it (both PC and XT) about the presence of the coprocessor. > > (I do, btw, have an 8087 in my collection...only one I've ever seen! Even > > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's s-l-o-w-e-s-t > > 386.) > > K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} Ya know, I was going to try to run Windows on it -- it came with 1 MB. That ought to be interesting across an 8 bit bus. You suppose I could fit enough files on my ST-412? Manney From jrice at texoma.net Mon Aug 25 07:47:26 1997 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface? References: <3.0.32.19970824125704.009463f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <34017EDE.D0E36528@texoma.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Whilst in a self-induced trance, Marvin happened to blather: > > >I was at one of the local thrift stores (a once a month or so > experience) > >and found a Radio Shack TRS-80 Disk/Video Interface unit for $0.90 > with > >manual. Apparently it was marked down from about $3.95 or so to get > it gone > >and I was more than happy to help out at that price even not knowing > what it > >was. After reading the manual, I still don't know but it talks about > the > >portable computer and I see one reference to a model 100. Anyone > have more > >information on this thing as far as what it attaches to? The model > 100 is > >obvious but since it talks about the connecting it to the Portable > Computer, > >are there others this thing might work with? Also since it didn't > come with > >a floppy disk, is this just a standard TRS-DOS or is there something > special > >about it? Finally, it is missing the connecting cable and does > anyone have > >the pinout for it or know where I might find it on-line? Thanks! > > Ohhhh... nice buy! They wouldn't happen to have 3 more at that price, > would > they??? ;-) > > The DVI as it was shortened to would give 180K floppy (40 track, SSDD, > > 18SPT) storage and 40x24 & 80x24 VT-52 compatible screen capability to > a > Tandy 100, 102 (later, lighter, redesigned 100), or the Tandy 200 > (which I > own). > > [[ Editor's note: Obviously, you need one of the above-mentioned > portables > to make use of the DVI... ]] > > It needs a special cable that I have seen for sale on comp.sys.tandy, > and > at the for-sale listing at: > > http://www.value.net/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/~thedock/c100sale.pl > > [[ Editor's note: this is a cgi-program accessable from the "For Sale" > link > at: > http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html > They also have a wanted listing and a guestbook! ]] > > It *does* require a boot floppy disk, I believe these are still > available > at Radio Shack for a few $$$ apiece (at least in the US... not sure > about > other countries) I have a boot disk for the DVI that boots the Model > 100 -- > too bad it doesn't seem to work with my T200. :-( > > I do have the pinouts for the cable, but the connection to the M100 > was a > specially wired 40-pin DIP cable, that I've heard is mongo-painful to > try > to build yourself (and, of course, RS doesn't stock those IIRC). The > cable > for the T200/T102 is easier to build with 40-pin IDC connectors and > ribbon > cable (I successfully converted an IBM-PC Clone IDE data cable) > > If you wish more information on this or most anything else from the > "Model > 'T'" world, just let me know. > > "Merch" > -- > Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* > zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. As of last week, RS said they could no longer supply the boot disk fot the DVI. I tried to order one from RSU and while the order went through at the store, I recieved a letter from RS stating that the DVI boot disk is no longer available. From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Aug 25 08:23:09 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Update: HHC E-proms In-Reply-To: <34017EDE.D0E36528@texoma.net> References: <3.0.32.19970824125704.009463f0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970825092309.009afb30@mail.northernway.net> Here's the deal, Neal: ;-) Mike has those 500 HHC e-proms for sale -- that will go for scrap if we don't rescue them. I can afford to buy them one-lump, but I can't afford actually _keeping_ them (I offered to take up to 30 pounds myself...) so here's the deal I asked him for: His scrap deal was $1.25 / pound, and there's 100 pounds. I offered him $1.30 / pound plus _all_ shipping, packing, handling costs shipped to me in a few days if I could find enough takers for at least 30 pounds of the things. Note: I just sent the e-mail to him -- he has *not* agreed to this deal yet. If he's not for it, I will update the list as quickly as I can. Anyway, pending the offer, I'd like to hear from anyone interested in some of these... I will entertain bids of no less than 1/2 pound (25 e-proms), mainly because anything smaller will be 99% shipping cost, and why not? I'll be honest: I plan on recouping my costs, but I don't plan on getting rich for my troubles: I'm thinking of reselling for $1.60 to $1.75 per pound (remember -- 50 per pound) + UPS shipping and packaging _only if I have to purchase it_. I have a fair amount of packing material now, and may be able to pick up the difference for free. If so, there won't be a packing charge. A lot of this price depends on getting the things shipped to me (and what they end up costing me if Mike doesn't take the deal), but I *really* doubt it would be higher than my high estimate. Anyway, lemme know who'd be interested in some of these, what you'd be willing to pay (in case I have to sweeten the deal with Mike), and I'll let Mike know when he mails me back. How's this sound? "Merch" -- to the rescue! -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From ejames at newwave.net Mon Aug 25 09:37:36 1997 From: ejames at newwave.net (Bruce James) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p Message-ID: <199708251437.KAA14267@ns.newwave.net> Hi to everyone on the list does anyone have a list of websites or a list of users groups for the Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p? I have had this computer since 1981 boxed in moth balls and decided to see if it still worked.. did the normal search by search engines but no luck so far... thanks Bruce James kb8kac tech plus From ekman at lysator.liu.se Mon Aug 25 10:15:51 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) In-Reply-To: <199708250702.AAA00356@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hello! I am currently working for a company in Gothenburg, Sweden that used to be the Scandinavian importer for Sord computers (a Japanese company) during the eighties. Their attic is full of old stuff, most of which the boss would like to throw out, and which he would unless a couple of employees disagree with him. Not only are there computers and peripherals, but also loads of documentation and software. I had a discussion with the boss recently and asked if it would be possible to ship the stuff to interested parties if I would do the work free of charge. No such luck. I may be able to persuade them to let the stuff for free if the receiver pays shipping, however. But shipping from Sweden is expensive. Thus, I am now trying to see if there is any interest in having any of this for the cost of shipping. If there is, I will try to make a definite deal with the company and then make a list of what is available. I am afraid that if nothing is done soon everything will be dumped into a container. If you are potentially interested, please reply directly to me (ekman@lysator.liu.se). If you have any questions about Sord computers in general, reply to the mailing list. /F PS. There will be no IS-11 or M-5 stuff (I will be reserving anything such for myself) but probably several M-23 and M-243 and who knows what else. Possibly also hand-held GRiD terminals and maybe the odd PC compatible. I know there are some UNIX minis, but the company may want to keep these since they still have customers using such. Everything will be adapted for Swedish electricity net (220 V). From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Aug 25 10:38:52 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708251538.AA13675@world.std.com> <> > rarer was the 8088 to 386 SX-16 upgrade board...the world's > 386.) <> <> K00L. How long does it take to install Linux using that? :-)} < Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > Hello! > > I am currently working for a company in Gothenburg, Sweden that used to be > the Scandinavian importer for Sord computers (a Japanese company) during > the eighties. Their attic is full of old stuff, most of which the boss > would like to throw out, and which he would unless a couple of employees > disagree with him. Not only are there computers and peripherals, but also > loads of documentation and software. <...> If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs around to get some of this over here. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Aug 25 13:25:51 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) Message-ID: <199708251823.NAA07336@sunflower.com> My sister moved to Norway and used a company called AirSea Freight. Everything you can get on a standard pallete, stacked 4ft high, for 750.00 takes 6 weeks to get it though. ---------- > From: Sam Ismail > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) > Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 1:09 PM > > On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > I am currently working for a company in Gothenburg, Sweden that used to be > > the Scandinavian importer for Sord computers (a Japanese company) during > > the eighties. Their attic is full of old stuff, most of which the boss > > would like to throw out, and which he would unless a couple of employees > > disagree with him. Not only are there computers and peripherals, but also > > loads of documentation and software. > <...> > > If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get > together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs > around to get some of this over here. > > Sam > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Mon Aug 25 13:31:20 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Update: HHC E-proms Message-ID: <199708251431_MC2-1E2B-54F3@compuserve.com> Message text written by INTERNET:classiccmp@u.washington.edu >Mike has those 500 HHC e-proms for sale -- that will go for scrap if we< >I'll be honest: I plan on recouping my costs, but I don't plan on getting rich for my troubles: I'm thinking of reselling for $1.60 to $1.75 per pound (remember -- 50 per pound) + UPS shipping and packaging _only if< What size EPROMS are these? Have they already been programmed? Will they work in anything but the HHC? And if already programmed, what do they do for the HHC? Gil Parrish 107765.1161@compuserve.com From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 25 13:12:55 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Stuff for trade, including Heath H88, less case Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F1C4BC@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> Here's a new item For Trade: Complete Heath H88, less case/monitor - Motherboard - Terminal board - Three I/O cards - One of those 5 1/4" floppy drives Heath used with the big door - Complete documentation set! Perfect for somebody with a broken H88 - OR - You can install this in a Heath/Zenith terminal and pow! you have an H88. In fact, I believe it's designed to do this. Other Stuff For Trade! - TRS-80 Model I - Altos Z-80 MP/M multiuser system with built-in 8" drive & tape backup - Apple IIgs (cpu only) - Apple Macintosh 128, correct keyboard & mouse, system boot disk - Atari 800 - Atari 520STfm - Atari 1040STf - C64 in original box - North Star Horizon - Timex-Sinclair ZX1000 Items Wanted (trade up/down/whatever): - S-100 systems, drives, cards, brochures, docs - BYTE issues 1, 3, 4 - Ohio Scientific Challenger - Exidy Sorcerer - Intecolor 8001 / CompuColor II - RCA COSMAC - Rockwell AIM-65 - Sinclair ZX80 - Intertec Superbrain - Heath H8 - Cromemco System One/System Zero/C-10 - Spectravideo SV-318 - Mattel Aquarius accessories Software/docs wanted: - Docs for Byte Systems Byt-8 - Lisa Office System (unserialized) - Disk OS for NEC PC-8001 - Microsoft Adventure Computer conversions for video game systems wanted: (for example) - Magnavox Odyssey Command Center keyboard - Mattel Intellivision II computer adapter keyboard - Entex 2000 Piggyback keyboard for Atari VCS - Unitronics Atari VCS Expander From zmerch at northernway.net Mon Aug 25 13:55:38 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: Whoopee!: Update: HHC E-proms In-Reply-To: <199708251431_MC2-1E2B-54F3@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970825145538.00a32650@mail.northernway.net> Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Gil Parrish said: >What size EPROMS are these? Have they already been programmed? Will they >work in anything but the HHC? And if already programmed, what do they do >for the HHC? Size: Uh, methinks 8Kbyte, but don't quote me. Programmed? IIRC, yes. Work on other than HHC? Code, prolly not. Erased / reprogrammed? prolly. Do for HHC? Dunno. I plan on using some reprogrammed for other schtuff, however, I also plan on archiving all the code from them that I can find onto my MO for posterity, to guard against bitrot. Btw: The deal is a go! They've been saved! Get your orders in soon, and I'll try to get more info on them as I can. I'll also drop a hint if those used HHC's will ever become reality, but at least this does seem to be a for-sure. Will do a web-search for the HHC -- see what I can turn up. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 25 14:53:01 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 is Finally Up! Message-ID: It works. But I shouldv'e noticed no termination right off... That was a stupid mistake. Anyway, now that it's up, I get to find a more permanent home for it- This building goes away at the end of the month! We're looking at Jeff's garage. I was telnetted into it last night. Once I figure out how, it goes up for public access. Anyone know of PPP for RSTS/E? :) Or I could always re-write the TCP/IP protocol in BASIC-PLUS... Oh, and we're going to take it apart to move it this time. Give Jeff more opportunity to bust the OTHER foot... And less work for me! How much does a DEC cabinet weigh empty? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Aug 25 16:06:15 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 is Finally Up! In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 25, 97 02:53:01 pm Message-ID: <9708252006.AA09807@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 273 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970825/3591f770/attachment-0001.ksh From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Mon Aug 25 15:14:20 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 is Finally Up! In-Reply-To: <9708252006.AA09807@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote: > What style? A H960 is less than 100 pounds; quite easy for a > single person to manhandle. If you take the sides off, it's even > lighter and easier to grab. A Dual-wide corporate cabinet is > probably 300 pounds, though... > We plan on splitting the corporate cabinet into two parts. The DEC manual I got shows how to put the two together, we'll just reverse the procedure. We'll probably just stick the second BA11 in the first rack and eliminate the second. It'll take up less room that way. We could just roll it, but DEC, in their infinite wisdom, locked the back wheels so they don't caster. From gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu Mon Aug 25 19:02:36 1997 From: gmast at polymail.cpunix.calpoly.edu (Greg Mast) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Free CP/M system] Message-ID: <34021D1C.2B7B@oboe.calpoly.edu> Found this on Central CA newsgroup: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unclmike@fletch.fix.net (Uncle Mike) Subject: Free CP/M system Date: 25 Aug 1997 12:08:45 -0700 Size: 1220 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970825/1740a463/attachment-0001.mht From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 25 19:39:44 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Altair scans Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F4835F@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> How are we doing on getting the Altair scans up on the ftp site? thanks Kai From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Mon Aug 25 19:51:26 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Honeywell "Black Apple" floppy drives Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F48365@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> I almost forgot - in addition to my earlier trade list post, I recently acquired four (4) Honeywell "Black Apple" Disk II floppy drives. These are up for trade. Kai (BTW, no, I'm not selling any of this stuff, send trade lists instead of offers to buy! Maybe I'll be interested in something that isn't on my want list) From ekman at lysator.liu.se Tue Aug 26 04:43:58 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers (help save them!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199708260944.KAA11990@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hello Fredrik, I would be most interested in the Sord equipment. I already have an M5 (and the CGL version) and I would love an M-23 & M-243 to go along with it. I am located in the UK so shipping isn't that far and electricity requirements are the same. As a collector I would also be interested in some of the other items you have. Regards -- Kevan Heydon Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/ From rcini at classic.msn.com Tue Aug 26 07:31:21 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Altair scans update Message-ID: For those who have asked... The Altair scans are ready to post, I just have to ZIP them up and send the tape to Bill Whitson. Does anyone have his physical address?? ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 26 09:18:49 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: bci-20.htm Message-ID: <199708261418.JAA00369@bsdserver.tek-star.net> BCI-2000 bci2000 Unibus Adapter for the PCI Bus _________________________________________________________________ The BCI-2000 Unibus Adapter enables Unibus devices to be connected to workstations supporting the PCI bus. The BCI-2000 supports both PIO and DMA Unibus data transfers as well as providing support for all four Unibus interrupt levels. The BCI-2000 consists of a single slot PCI controller, a dual-width Unibus cable adapter module, and an eight-foot shielded interconnect cable. The PCI controller occupies a single PCI slot. The Unibus cable adapter installs into the Unibus connectors A and B of an expansion chassis or user's equipment, replacing a Unibus cable. The BCI-2000 provides complete support for: * Unibus PIO data transfers including read word, data-input-pause, write word, and write byte. * Unibus DMA data transfers including read word, write word, and write byte. * All four Unibus interrupt levels: BR4, BR5, BR6, and BR7. _________________________________________________________________ Features Provides a migration path. The BCI-2000 allows users of Unibus systems to migrate to the new high performance PCI workstations and retain their existing Unibus I/O devices without loss of function or performance. High performance. Unibus PIO and DMA data transfers occur at maximum Unibus speeds -- throughput is limited only by the Unibus device. Cost savings. The BCI-2000 provides users the choice of low cost, high performance PCI workstations while retaining their existing investments in Unibus hardware and software. Easy to install. The BCI-2000 allows multiple I/O devices to be connected to a workstation while occupying only a single PCI-slot. Easy to maintain. The BCI-2000 executes a comprehensive set of diagnostics to automatically verify module operation. _________________________________________________________________ Description PIO Transfers The BCI-2000 supports the four types of Unibus PIO data transfers including read word, data-input-pause, write word, and write byte. The entire Unibus address space is available for access by a PCI host. DMA Transfers The BCI-2000 provides full compatibility with the three types of Unibus DMA data transfers, including word read, write word and, write byte. Single and multiple data transfers are supported. Interrupts The BCI-2000 passes Unibus interrupts to the host for service if interrupts are enabled by the host and the interrupts are higher priority than the priority established under software control. The BCI-2000 stores the 8-bit interrupt vector in an internal register that is referenced by the host to determine the interrupt service requested. Unibus Termination The BCI-2000 provides Unibus termination for one end of the Unibus. The user must ensure the Unibus is terminated at the end of the Unibus within the expansion chassis or the user's equipment. Unibus Parity Unibus parity signals PA and PB are terminated but otherwise not supported by the BCI-2000. _________________________________________________________________ Software Compatibility The BCI-2000 is not supported under existing OpenVMS, Ultrix, or OSF/1 operating system software and requires software drivers to support the features offered bu the BCI-2000. Consult our factory for more information. Specifications Physical Dimensions PCI controllerSingle width card, 6.875 inches by 4.2 inches (17.46 cm by 10.67 cm) Unibus Cable AdapterDual-width Unibus module, 5.s inches by 2.3 inches (13.s cm by 5.8 cm.) Cable Length8 ft. Electrical BCI-2000-A3.8 amps @ 5.0 volts (+/- twelve volts not used) Bus Loading1 dc load, 2 ac loads Bus Drive Capability19 additional dc loads Environmental Operating Conditions: Temperature 5° to 50° C (41° to 122° F) Relative Humidity20% to 80% noncondensing Storage Conditions: Temperature-40° to 66° C (-40° to 150°F) Relative Humidity10% to 95% noncondensing Ordering Information BCI-2000-CAPCI controller without memory, Unibus cable adapter, 8-foot cable and user manual. BCI-2000-AAPCI controller with 256KB memory, Unibus cable adapter, 8-foot cable and user manual. BCI-2000-BAPCI controller with 1MB memory, Unibus cable adapter, 8-foot cable and user manual. _________________________________________________________________ Digital, Unibus and OpenVMS are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation. UNIX is a trademark of X/Open Company Ltd.. We reserve the right to improve our products without notice. _________________________________________________________________ 75 Gateway Boulevard, Cottage Grove, Oregon 97424 USA Tel: (541) 942-3610 Fax: (541) 942-3640 E-Mail: sales@logical-co.com Logical's Home About Logical Product Info Warranty Support _________________________________________________________________ From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Tue Aug 26 09:29:34 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: What the heck...? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970826072934.00e71e90@mail.wizards.net> Ok, I give... >Mike has those 500 HHC e-proms for sale -- that will go for scrap if we >don't rescue them. I can afford to buy them one-lump, but I can't afford >actually _keeping_ them (I offered to take up to 30 pounds myself...) so >here's the deal I asked him for: What in blazes is an HHC EPROM??? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From manney at nwohio.com Tue Aug 26 09:39:08 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Computers (fwd) Message-ID: <199708261454.HAA20170@mx5.u.washington.edu> > I also have windows3.0 which will run on a 640k > xt! > > Allison Hmm...I've got Windows /386 ("Part of the upgrade path to OS/2", the package proudly announces.) Ever played with Geoworks? That would run on an XT, and very nicely, too. Had several improvements over Windows, including "sticky" menus which could be detached and moved. *Very* nice drawing program -- much better than Paintbrush. I liked it better than Windows. Manney p.s. dug up 3 sealed, boxed sets of OS/2 2.1 (not over 10 yrs old...sorry). Anyone interested? From jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com Tue Aug 26 10:00:32 1997 From: jruschme at hiway1.exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000+ In-Reply-To: <199708261454.HAA20170@mx5.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Aug 26, 97 10:39:08 am Message-ID: <199708261500.LAA29808@hiway1.exit109.com> Hi all! This is one I've been meaning to get info on for a while... Some time ago, I picked up a Kaypro 2000+ laptop, minus power supply. Does anyone have a pinout for the 5-pin DIN plug which, I assume, is the power connector? Thanks... <<>> From dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net Tue Aug 26 10:28:28 1997 From: dseagrav at bsdserver.tek-star.net (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? Message-ID: I was curious. I have the pinout in the 11/44 book, but it doesn't say what any of the pins do. I have something I want to try, but to try it I'd need to know what the pins do. From jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca Tue Aug 26 06:46:29 1997 From: jpero at mail.cgo.wave.ca (jpero@mail.cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2000+ In-Reply-To: <199708261500.LAA29808@hiway1.exit109.com> References: <199708261454.HAA20170@mx5.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Aug 26, 97 10:39:08 am Message-ID: <199708261544.LAA21320@mail.cgocable.net> John, and anyone interested in this matter... Wow, once again, I hear that you have one too, I had one but in real bad shape. (Butchered by a IDIOT, plastic parts cut up, missing parts! Even all those in that replacement floppy drive capacitors leads are all idiocially twisted together. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek! More info interested especially guts inside that kaypro 2000 series. Thanks. What I was able to determine: It's a XT clone version of a 8088, uses standard CMOS (!!) TTL and IC's, has on board DC-DC astec convertor, not sure which is for. It uses 3.5" 720k fd on right side. It uses MASSIVE 4.8v NiCd cylinder pack I think resting in back pan towards under the LCD display. The keyboard uses phone connector type. I did not recall that it had DIN 5 connector on that thing? How did the Floppy drive connects by what? That part is missing when I had it. When I had it, the display is so DIM, that you need a good eye to see the faint washed out characters, in short order, a small signal transistor cracked in two when I was at it! Then I gave up on it because the damage was VAST on it. Too much damage to list: missing parts, sawen off plastic parts to fit the replacement fd, much more. :( LCD does it has a backlight at all and very good contrast? Jason D. > Hi all! > > This is one I've been meaning to get info on for a while... > > Some time ago, I picked up a Kaypro 2000+ laptop, minus power supply. > Does anyone have a pinout for the 5-pin DIN plug which, I assume, is > the power connector? > > Thanks... <<>> From ekman at lysator.liu.se Tue Aug 26 11:30:29 1997 From: ekman at lysator.liu.se (Fredrik Ekman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers In-Reply-To: <199708260702.AAA10211@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Sam Ismail wrote: > If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get > together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs > around to get some of this over here. This is an excellent idea. So far, I only have one interested American, but if others get in touch with me we will try to organize something. Be aware, though, that things will probably take some time. I don't have ready access to the attic in question and before we even start planning I will need to meet and discuss with a few people. /F From dastar at crl.com Tue Aug 26 12:10:53 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Half an attic full of old computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Fredrik Ekman wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > > If anyone in the states wants to get some of this then maybe we can get > > together and get a bulk freight deal going to spread the shipping costs > > around to get some of this over here. > > This is an excellent idea. So far, I only have one interested American, > but if others get in touch with me we will try to organize something. Be > aware, though, that things will probably take some time. I don't have > ready access to the attic in question and before we even start planning I > will need to meet and discuss with a few people. Sounds good to me. I'm in. Let's find out how many other people are interested and see if it will be fiscally possible. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 26 12:34:19 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? In-Reply-To: from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Aug 26, 97 10:28:28 am Message-ID: <199708261734.KAA24076@fraser> Hi: I had the same question, and Tim Shoppa lent me a book that (unfortunately) only provides a technical description of the UNIBUS, specifying line names etc. This is great but the bad part is that the book does not cross reference the lines to particular pins on the backplane. I want to poke and prod the backplane with a VOM due to an unfortunate power supply blowup (read as "I goofed!") and am still going to be unable to do this. The text does "name" particular pins, but the naming system is not self-evident nor does it seem to follow a logical association with the backplane slots. Most of the pins start with A through F, but beyond that it's not possible to figure out which pin is which. > I was curious. I have the pinout in the 11/44 book, but it doesn't say > what any of the pins do. I have something I want to try, but to try it > I'd need to know what the pins do. If you find out, please let me know! Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Tue Aug 26 13:02:34 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? In-Reply-To: <199708261734.KAA24076@fraser> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > The text does "name" particular pins, but the naming system is not > self-evident nor does it seem to follow a logical association > with the backplane slots. Most of the pins start with A through F, but > beyond that it's not possible to figure out which pin is which. OK... The convention is very logical when you get used to it. In general, a pin number consists of 4 parts, normally a number, a letter in the range A-F, a letter in the range A-U, and a number in the range 1-2. Sometimes the first 2 parts are swapped round, giving the letter first. OK. The first number tells you which card on the backplane to look at. If you are looking at the board side of the backplane with the component side of the cards on the right (the normal way up), then slot 1 is on the right. For example, on a PDP11/44, slot 1 contains the M7090 card (and sometimes the M7091). On an 11/45, slot 1 contains the M930 terminator, the KW11-L line time clock (I forget the M-number), and the KM11 test connectors. The first letter tells you which connector in the slot to look at. A is the top/rearmost slot, F is the bottom/front one. Taking the 2 examples above, the M7090 or M930 cards go in connectors A and B. Note that a quad card (like many SPC cards) fits into connectors C-F. DEC were _not_ consistent here - some printsets for such cards call the connectors on the board C-F, others call them A-D. It's normally indicated on the overlay diagram in the printset, though. The second letter tells you which of the 18 pins on one side of the connector to look at. This uses the 'DEC Alphabet' where some characters were left out to avoid confusion with badly printed manuals, etc. The sequence is A B C D E F H J K L M N P R S T U V . A is the top/rearmost pin (closest to slot A). The last digit gives the side of the board. 1 is the component side, 2 is the solder side. > > I was curious. I have the pinout in the 11/44 book, but it doesn't say > > what any of the pins do. I have something I want to try, but to try it > > I'd need to know what the pins do. Note that most of the signals are _active low_. I think grants are just about the only exception to this. OK, from memory, the main ones are : A0-A17 - Unibus Address lines D0-D15 - Unibus Data lines PA,PB - Parity control lines (memory parity, per byte?) C0,C1 - Control lines. Indicate one of 4 bus cycles - Word Write, Byte Write, (Word) Read, Word Read, but don't restore memory contents MSyn - Master Sync. A signal from the bus master, telling the slave to look at the address/data/control lines. Think of it as being like a 68000 DS* SSyn - Slave Sync. A signal from the slave to the master indicating that it recognises the address. Like DTACK on a 68000 BRn - Bus Request - signal from peripheral to indicate it wants to cause a interrupt BGn - Bus Grant - signal to the peripheral indicating that it can output a interrupt vector. Note that each slot has BG in and BG out lines. The interrupting peripheral does _not_ pass on the grant, all others do. So the peripheral nearest to the CPU has the highest priority. Intr - Interrupt. Signal output by the peripheral along with an interrupt vector, indicating that it is a vector on the bus NPR - Non-Processor Request. A DMA request line NPG - Non-Processor Grant. DMA Grant line, used like BGn above. SACK - Select acknowledge. Used to indicate that the peripheral has received the grant and is taking the bus Gnd - Ground, 0V, etc +5V, +15V, -15V - Obvious! ACLO, DCLO - power fail signals from the PSU to the system LTC - Pulse that occurs every mains cycle, used by the real time clock. > > If you find out, please let me know! > > Kevin -tony From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Aug 26 12:25:42 1997 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Altair scans update Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB205F58399@RED-65-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> If you can't get ahold of Bill, I have a lot of upload bandwidth. c/o 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 Kai > ---------- > From: Richard A. Cini, Jr.[SMTP:rcini@classic.msn.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 5:31 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair scans update > > For those who have asked... > > The Altair scans are ready to post, I just have to ZIP them up and > send the > tape to Bill Whitson. Does anyone have his physical address?? > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Rich Cini/WUGNET > > - ClubWin Charter Member (6) > - MCP Windows 95/Netowrking > From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Tue Aug 26 16:51:44 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Does anyone have an explanation of what the Unibus pins do? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 26, 97 07:02:34 pm Message-ID: <199708262151.OAA28681@fraser> Thanks Tony! Therefore I will type up a list of the pin assignements and post it to the list this evening or tomorrow. Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From rcini at classic.msn.com Tue Aug 26 19:59:28 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: More VAX Questions Message-ID: Hello, all: On a VAX, what is the external drive cable called? It seems to be a three-row 50-pin DIN connector that I can't find anywhere (even Digi-Key), much less a cable of that type. Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Aug 26 22:28:52 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: More VAX Questions In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Aug 27, 97 00:59:28 am Message-ID: <9708270228.AA19973@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1128 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970826/249bcebe/attachment-0001.ksh From rcini at classic.msn.com Wed Aug 27 07:22:41 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Lost my e-mail! Message-ID: Hello, all: If anyone has sent me any e-mail since yesterday 8/26 at 5pm, please resend it. Somehow, Exchange and Windows 95 trashed my e-mail store. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Wed Aug 27 16:53:07 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: H742 In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 26, 97 07:02:34 pm Message-ID: <199708272153.OAA23258@fraser> Hi Tony: My new MJ3000 arrived today, I'll install it and let you know whether my +15 returns. Thanks for your assistance, Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Aug 27 19:22:20 1997 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: UNISYS to give away In-Reply-To: <199707110702.AAA14784@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: Hello all, I just spotted this on the austin.forsale news group. I have no other connection with the guy or the computer. Hope someone can use this. (Hmm. I hope the UNISYS is > 10 years old ... if not, please excuse me.) - Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: coqui.ccf.swri.edu!news.sesqui.net!academ!cs.utexas.edu!news-relay.us.dell.com!j ump.net!news-fw!news.mpd!newsgate.tandem.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news -hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.spr intlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!uunet!in5.uu.net!news.eden.com!news.eden. com!yakuza.fc.net!pm1-1.tab.com From: Scratch Newsgroups: austin.forsale Subject: Free computer and Stuff Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 02:47:41 -0600 Organization: Freeside Communications Lines: 12 Message-ID: <3402982D.689C@tab.com> Reply-To: scratch@tab.com NNTP-Posting-Host: jade.tab.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Xref: coqui.ccf.swri.edu austin.forsale:86491 I am giving away a GE dishwasher, A UNYSIS mainframe computer, printer, disk subsytem and a old metal school teachers desk (disassembled) and matching chair to anyone who can come get it out of my garage FREE. Please e-mail me. -- Ron E. Marks http://www.tab.com/~scratch/home.html Austin, Texas Those who know use MACINTOSH...those who don't, call "Tech Support" From danjo at xnet.com Wed Aug 27 18:02:15 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? Message-ID: Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software but what was/is the operating system? BC From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Aug 27 18:16:24 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? Message-ID: <01IMXX6IEO5EBEVQMN@cc.usu.edu> > Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used > to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software > but what was/is the operating system? PICK is the operating system. PICK is a combination operating system/programming language/user environment. It was created by Dick Pick on a military computer (I think one of those militarized UNIVAC thingies) and ported to a variety of other machines. AFAIK all legitimate ports were done by Dick Pick himself, although the book I found talks about people cloning PICK without Dick's permission (since this is a book of the "PICK rah, rah, rah!" variety, this is said to be a Bad Thing). Personally, it looked to me like there were holes in the PICK system you could drive a truck through; security seems to be done mostly through obscurity. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From danjo at xnet.com Wed Aug 27 20:41:10 1997 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? In-Reply-To: <01IMXX6IEO5EBEVQMN@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Roger Ivie wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Brett wrote: > > Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used > > to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software > > but what was/is the operating system? > > PICK is the operating system. Ok 8-) What else should run on this hardware then? The box would make a Great desk half. And if it worked - that would be Better then! Maybe I should look around for hardware manuals 8-) BC From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 27 21:17:28 1997 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Kaypro II help needed Message-ID: <970827221615_1918577820@emout20.mail.aol.com> I decided to drag out my kaypro II for testing/cataloging/photos and noticed it's even worse than before. previously, i was able to boot a cpm disk but got no keyboard activity. now, it powers on, spins the floppy a few rotations, then prompts to place a disk in drive a: and no more than that. hitting the reset button didnt do anything. it keeps coming back to the same screen. while typing this note, i noticed it finally booted off a floppy in about 5 minutes' wait and now i'm getting no keyboard input (not even ^M or ^G) and the floppy light is staying on but not spinning. i do get an a: prompt though. someone mentioned the keyboard controller chip missing, but it's there. this machine has two half height floppies which i assume incorrect. would full height pc/xt drives be "correct"? what should i check now? david From indavis at juno.com Wed Aug 27 22:55:46 1997 From: indavis at juno.com (indavis@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: UNISYS to give away References: Message-ID: <19970827.225628.9982.1.indavis@juno.com> On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:22:20 -0700 Mark Tapley writes: >Hello all, > I just spotted this on the austin.forsale news group. I have >no >other connection with the guy or the computer. Hope someone can use >this. >(Hmm. I hope the UNISYS is > 10 years old ... if not, please excuse >me.) > - Mark >I am giving away a GE dishwasher, A UNYSIS mainframe computer, >printer, >disk subsytem and a old metal school teachers desk (disassembled) and >matching chair to anyone who can come get it out of my garage FREE. >Please e-mail me. > Mark/Everyone, I was second on the list to pick this up, and had even talked to my boss and was told I could store it in my office, but only if I snuck it in on a weekend. The cpu weighs about 400lbs, the printer about 600lbs, and the drive rack w/drives about 1000lbs. I have the means to pick it up, but only temporary storage, and I doubt I could ever fire it up. I don't have 220 at my house, or in my office. Since there was someone ahead of me in the list of people that wanted it, and I haven't been told to come get it, I assume it's gone to a good home. I was thinking "would anyone on the list be interested in this monster?" If I do actually end up with it, I will post it here, and put it up for grabs. Isaac Davis | Don't throw out that old computer, Atari nut | check out the Classic Computer Rescue List - indavis@juno.com | http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/1055/classic.html From dastar at crl.com Thu Aug 28 00:04:42 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Kaypro II help needed In-Reply-To: <970827221615_1918577820@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Aug 1997 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I decided to drag out my kaypro II for testing/cataloging/photos and noticed > it's even worse than before. previously, i was able to boot a cpm disk but > got no keyboard activity. now, it powers on, spins the floppy a few > rotations, then prompts to place a disk in drive a: and no more than that. > hitting the reset button didnt do anything. it keeps coming back to the same > screen. while typing this note, i noticed it finally booted off a floppy in > about 5 minutes' wait and now i'm getting no keyboard input (not even ^M or Try cleaning the drive heads. You may also want to check its alignment if you know how. > ^G) and the floppy light is staying on but not spinning. i do get an a: > prompt though. someone mentioned the keyboard controller chip missing, but > it's there. this machine has two half height floppies which i assume > incorrect. would full height pc/xt drives be "correct"? what should i check > now? Perhaps your keyboard cord is defective? The Kaypro II uses a phone cord. Make sure the phone cord you are using is RJ14 and not RJ11. RJ14 is four conductor while RJ11 is only 2 conductor. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From more at camlaw.rutgers.edu Thu Aug 28 00:22:49 1997 From: more at camlaw.rutgers.edu (Mr. Self Destruct) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: setup for IDS PC-88 Turbo (fwd) Message-ID: Anybody here able to help this guy out? i don't believe he is a subscriber so if you could e-mail him directly, that'd be preferred, thanks. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:35:26 -0400 From: wgh To: more@camlaw.Rutgers.EDU Subject: setup for IDS PC-88 Turbo Hello, I am in need of a setup program for an Intellegent Data Systems PC-88 computer running DOS 3.2. The copy I have simply locks up the computer after the main menu is displayed. Any help you could give would be appreciated. Timothy J. Hummer wcpgoa@penn.com From jruschme at exit109.com Thu Aug 28 06:15:59 1997 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Kaypro II help needed In-Reply-To: References: <970827221615_1918577820@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: >> ^G) and the floppy light is staying on but not spinning. i do get an a: >> prompt though. someone mentioned the keyboard controller chip missing, but >> it's there. this machine has two half height floppies which i assume >> incorrect. would full height pc/xt drives be "correct"? what should i check >> now? > >Perhaps your keyboard cord is defective? The Kaypro II uses a phone >cord. Make sure the phone cord you are using is RJ14 and not RJ11. RJ14 >is four conductor while RJ11 is only 2 conductor. More preciesly, it uses a headset cord. This is a slightly narrower connector than an RJ-11. As for drives, the 1/2 heighters sound correct, but not original. A pair of IBM's should be find, just watch out for the drive select jumpering. <<>> From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Thu Aug 28 09:17:09 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: DEC Assistance Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970828071709.00e779b0@mail.wizards.net> Tim or Allison, I could really use your help. Tim, I think something in the mail system may be preventing my messages from reaching you. I have O-VMS 6.2 up and running. What I need is someone else with a MicroVAX to create an RX50 floppy, initialized with VMS, with VMSTPCE (unzipped and ready to roll, ideally) copied to it. I cannot seem to transfer it from my PC, via PUTR and VMS's EXCHANGE, to save my life. This evening, I will try installing TCP/IP services on the VAX and try to FTP the appropriate file from its resting spot on my server. However, I'm not sanguine about the results given my difficulties over the last few weeks. Sheesh... it should NOT be this hard to do a simple binary tape copy! If tonight's effort fails, and no one else can help, I'll just install Ultrix and try it that way. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 28 10:55:41 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: DEC Assistance In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970828071709.00e779b0@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 28, 97 07:17:09 am Message-ID: <9708281455.AA23356@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1731 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970828/dd95f734/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 28 09:51:31 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: A McDonnell-Douglas Micro-6000? Message-ID: <199708281506.IAA24986@mx3.u.washington.edu> > Anybody know what this baby runs??? I heard in passing that they used > to run PICK on it. I think PICK is some kind of manufacturing software > but what was/is the operating system? IIRC, PIC is its own operating system -- useful for database work. A village down near me still uses it for its town hall records, and -- last I hear -- was still supported. From manney at nwohio.com Thu Aug 28 10:56:39 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Laser Magnetic Storage Co. Message-ID: <199708281613.JAA02198@mx2.u.washington.edu> Anyone ever heard of "Laser Magnetic Storage Co."? They made mass storage devices...I'm trying to find a driver. Thanks manney@nwohio.com "How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty different kinds of cheese?" -- Charles de Gaulle From ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk Thu Aug 28 12:18:29 1997 From: ard at odin.phy.bris.ac.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Laser Magnetic Storage Co. In-Reply-To: <199708281613.JAA02198@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, PG Manney wrote: > Anyone ever heard of "Laser Magnetic Storage Co."? They made mass storage > devices...I'm trying to find a driver. My CD-ROM drive says LMS on one part (I think it's the PC interface card), which I was told stood for Laser Magnetic Storage. The drive itself (and the service manual) say Philips. I would therefore try Philips first. Come to think of it, I beleive I've seen drivers for some of these CD-ROM drives on the web - have you tried searching? I also seem to remember finding a Linux patch for at least one of them, under the name lmscd (or something like that). > > Thanks > manney@nwohio.com -tony From 107765.1161 at compuserve.com Thu Aug 28 13:41:56 1997 From: 107765.1161 at compuserve.com (Gil Parrish) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: VAX II Message-ID: <199708281442_MC2-1E7A-651D@compuserve.com> Picked this up on a local Tulsa-area bulletin board; I don't know a thing about it, but didn't know if someone here might be interested: ______________________________________ From : JON JUREK We hava micro Vax II that we are trying to sell or get rid of somehow and would like to know if anyone has a need. Please send e-mail to jonj@fly.aeromet.com. Sorry for this garbled message. my terminal emulation leaves a lot to be desired. Thanks a bunch. From marvin at rain.org Thu Aug 28 15:16:24 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Bouroughs Documentation References: <199708281442_MC2-1E7A-651D@compuserve.com> Message-ID: <3405DC98.3C70ED26@rain.org> A friend of mine and I were just over at a house where there was quite a bit of old IBM and Bouroughs manuals. A friend of the family who works for IBM wants to check out that stuff when he gets into town, but I was told to help myself to any of the Bouroughs documentation. While I don't know all that is out there, I took a handful of docs covering a bit of the B-20. I also noticed a number of manuals that had Bouroughs on them but didn't take a look. After their friend takes a look at the IBM stuff, I will most likely be welcome to take whatever is left. The guy that died did programming for the IBM 1130 and later machines so I am assuming most of the docs would be operating system instead of hardware related. Some of the stuff has already been tossed so I told her I would be back tomorrow morning to pick up what I can. Anyone interested in any of the Bouroughs manuals given the lack of precise data on what they are? I'll probably pick up most of it anyway but if I know someone wants the stuff, I can be a little more liberal in what we take. Thanks. From william at ans.net Thu Aug 28 15:34:30 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Bouroughs Documentation In-Reply-To: <3405DC98.3C70ED26@rain.org> Message-ID: <199708282034.AA17532@interlock.ans.net> > A friend of mine and I were just over at a house where there was quite a bit > of old IBM and Bouroughs manuals. I would be interested in the Burroughs documentation - or anything related to the old mainframe lines by IBM and the BUNCH. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jrice at texoma.net Thu Aug 28 16:06:13 1997 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Laser Magnetic Storage Co. References: <199708281613.JAA02198@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3405E845.F70EEF9F@texoma.net> PG Manney wrote: > Anyone ever heard of "Laser Magnetic Storage Co."? They made mass > storage > devices...I'm trying to find a driver. > > Thanks > manney@nwohio.com > > "How can anyone govern a nation that has two hundred and forty > different > kinds of cheese?" > -- Charles de Gaulle They are part of Philips, they still operate as Philips-LMS and now make optical drives sold under the Philips brand. James From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Aug 28 16:06:28 1997 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Bouroughs Documentation Message-ID: <01IMZ70KJS2ABCPMJB@cc.usu.edu> > Anyone interested in any of the Bouroughs manuals given the lack of > precise data on what they are? I'll probably pick up most of it anyway but > if I know someone wants the stuff, I can be a little more liberal in what we > take. Yeah. I've had unhealthy relations with a B-800; if there's anything about the B-800 I'm interested. Other things to look for are COBOL language manuals, NDL language manuals, and manuals covering operating of MCP and CANDE. I'm interested in all/any of these. BTW, the B-80 is close enough to the B-800 to be interesting as far as I'm concerned... Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu PS: Burroughs had a really good COBOL compiler on the B-800, it just took _forever_ to compile anything... From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Thu Aug 28 16:46:32 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Stop by for a spell when you get to the bay area. Looks like I will be spending a day in San Francisco so it would be cool to meet you in person. I could also come bearing gifts ;). Do you still have that Laser 50? Cause I just picked up a spare Apple Disk III and I don't need it ;) Bill From bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu Thu Aug 28 17:29:12 1997 From: bw at booster.bothell.washington.edu (Bill Whitson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Multiple Topics... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes! That was me the list owner replying to the entire list on a personal mail. Sorry. (cc'd to Sam since the msg was for him ;) While I'm blabbing... Does anyone else (other than Marvin) want to try to get together to check out a big scrapyard near Santa Margarita/Atascadero (CA)? I will be there on a weekday during the 2nd week of September. Bill On Thu, 28 Aug 1997, Bill Whitson wrote: > > Stop by for a spell when you get to the bay area. > > Looks like I will be spending a day in San Francisco so it would > be cool to meet you in person. I could also come bearing gifts ;). > Do you still have that Laser 50? Cause I just picked up a spare > Apple Disk III and I don't need it ;) > > Bill > From rcini at classic.msn.com Thu Aug 28 17:19:37 1997 From: rcini at classic.msn.com (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: VAXstation works! Message-ID: Well, I got the VAX working last night. It has a melted power cable that I had to rebuild. It seems to boot Ultrix, what seems to be a Unix variant. Time to play... Also, can anyone point me to any FAQs about the VAXstations? Rich Cini/WUGNET rcini@msn.com From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Aug 28 01:14:46 1997 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Hard Disks Message-ID: Hi, Last weekend I was lucky enough to find a pallet of Apple II stuff (2 complete systems, and lots of cool things), and amongst everything was a copy of a book called the "Apple II User's Guide" published back in '81 by Osbourne/McGraw-Hill. In this book under the chapter on Drives I found that it talks about three types of disks; Hard Disks, Winchester Disks, and Diskettes. It also has a picture for each, and it's the picture of the "Hard Disk System" that interests me. It appears to be a Rack Mounted enclosure for a Removable Disk pack. I can't see how many platters the pack has (the cover is white plastic), but I would guess between 2 and 4. It has four square push buttons (looks like the kind that light up), and two small lights. Basically it looks like a "Micro" version of the disk packs I used to use on Honeywell and UNISYS Mainframes. The photo was courtesy of "Cameo Electronics", and I can see their logo on part of the case. The text says the disks cost about $150 each and the drives between $3000-10000. All in all a very fascinating looking peice of hardware! I've never seen anything like them other than on mainframes, were these very common? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 28 20:50:43 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Hard Disks In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 27, 97 10:14:46 pm Message-ID: <9708290050.AA00134@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970828/e04cd6f3/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Aug 28 19:57:09 1997 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Hard Disks Message-ID: <199708290057.AA00362@world.std.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 27, 97 10:14:46 pm Message-ID: Tim Shoppa wrote: >>Zane wrote: >> It also has a >> picture for each, and it's the picture of the "Hard Disk System" that >> interests me. It appears to be a Rack Mounted enclosure for a Removable >> Disk pack. I can't see how many platters the pack has (the cover is white >> plastic), but I would guess between 2 and 4. It has four square push >> buttons (looks like the kind that light up), and two small lights. > >What does the diameter of the pack look like? 8" and 10" packs >were available about that time frame, as "mini"-versions of the >14" packs. Based on the assumption that the drive is for a 19" rack, and I'm fairly sure of that based on the picture (for one thing I can see the one of the 'rails' for the rack). I would say that it's about 14" - 16". I just noticed the disk has a BASF label on the handle. It looks like one of the disk packs where you take the bottom of, screw in into the drive, and then unscrew the top and lift the top off. I could swear that the packs I've used were about 18", and I'd thought they were standard. Never thought to measure them though. I've got one of the platters in the form of a "Going Away" plaque, guess I should dig it up and measure it for my own piece of mind :^) >Most of the smaller packs that I'm aware of came as a >"cartridge", with a self-sealing door to attempt to keep the surface clean. This is one of the strange things about it, it doesn't seem to have a cover to go over the hole you drop the disk pack into, but that might be what the thing i the front of the picture is that I can't identify. >In the minicomputer world, 8" removable packs were pretty common. >Examples include the CDC Lark and the DEC RC25. Both suffered from >the same problem: the drives and packs were used in non-computer-room >environments by folks who weren't familiar with the clean >(and dustless) environments that such equipment prefers to live in. >Head crashes were extremely common. It's rather difficult to find >working RC25 drives anymore! Scarry, I know opening the drive up and changing packs always scared the **** out of me! This despite the fact I knew how to handle them, and would have really had to try to mess one up. Can't imagine messing with them in a dirty environment though. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Mac Programmer | +----------------------------------+---------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne, and Traveller Role Playing | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Aug 28 21:18:12 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: Hard Disks In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Aug 28, 97 06:08:53 pm Message-ID: <9708290118.AA00399@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1577 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970828/e144492b/attachment.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Aug 29 09:14:05 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: FW: Old data storage devices Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970829071405.00e79990@mail.wizards.net> Would others on the list like to help this fellow out? Bet he'll get some interesting recollections from this bunch. ;-) Please respond directly to the author. Also, Bill Whitson has indicated he'll try again, this weekend, to make it to my place. Let's all root for him, OK? ;-) Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- >From: andrewl@rd.bbc.co.uk (Andrew Lipscombe) >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 97 12:31:54 BST >To: kyrrin2@wizards.net >Subject: Old data storage devices > >I am currently researching into the history of off-line and on-line storage >as part of a project. Specifically I am looking for information regarding >what $100 (or 100 pounds) would buy at five year intervals from 1960, 1965 >etc up to the present day. Or the price per megabyte at the same interval. > >Any information you can provide with regards to price of tape, disk, >paper/punchcard, drum etc storage since the first RAMAC would be very useful >indeed. There are several graphs available for predicting future trends, but >I am looking specifically for data from the past. It doesn't have to be comprehensive info, in fact just a few ballpark figures would do very nicely! > >In fact I'm after any half-remembered original prices of any hard or floppy >drives that you may have acquired! > >Thanks in advance for your help, > >Andrew Lipscombe >BBC R&D > >ps if you can't help, could you please pass this message onto someone who might >be able to. Cheers > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Aug 29 09:17:59 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: FW: Re: Q-bus cards. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970829071759.00e79990@mail.wizards.net> I've been in correspondence with a fellow who's got a lot of older VAXen, Q-Bus, and disk drive goodies. He may also have some mainframe stuff. I've already claimed a QBus-to-SA1000 disk interface board set. Please contact him directly if you want more details. Thanks! Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- >Reply-To: >From: edick@idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) >To: "Bruce Lane" >Subject: Re: Q-bus cards. >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 21:44:45 -0600 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 > >Nope . . . it's just junk in the basement from back when I was contemplating >building up a Q-bus system. I quickly gave up on that one . . . > >You cover the freight. Probably $3 per board via USPS priority mail would >cover it. Q-bus SCSI cards from makers like EMULEX were still very hot when I >got this 2-board set. I looked at the size of the project, and looked at the >product I'd have when the work was done, and quit right there. I had some >memory cards, and even an 11-780 (VAX) rack pair, but without drives or memory >cards. One trip down the stairs with that convinced me I didn't want any more >of that stuff. ]] > >I still have a few dumb terminals (not ANSI) and a few old printers. I even >have a SASI interfaced hard drive, complete with the bridge controller >(SA1000). Mostly, I have old 70's and 80's S-100 stuff.. > >If you're interested in the drives which go with the controller, you need to >consider that I'm in Denver and that the drives weigh about 25-30#. > >I am, incidentally, not a collector at all, just a guy who bought a lot of >stuff which he doesn't need any more at high prices and hasn't the heart >(sense) to junk it. I am, an electronics engineer and used to use some of this >stuff for one thing or another. > >I can attempt to make a list of what's just lying about. As I wrote before, >much of it is in the basement because I can't carry it up by myself, else it >would have been gone long ago. > > >---------- >> From: Bruce Lane >> To: edick@idcomm.com >> Subject: Re: Q-bus cards. >> Date: Thursday, August 28, 1997 20:56 PM >> >> At 18:10 28-08-97 -0600, you wrote: >> >> >Thanks for the WD7000 drivers, etc. I have an item you might like to >> consider, >> >namely a Q-bus to ST1000 (Shugart 8") hard drive adapter. Actually, it's >two >> >cards. >> >> >> >> You're most welcome, and yes, I would most definitely be interested! (for >> the collection value if nothing else). Would you want any actual cash for >> it or would I just need to cover the shipping? >> >> > Now that's an oddity if ever there was one, and, in fact, I could even >> >send you a drive or two, (I think) though I'm not certain they haven't been >> >recycled, since there's a significant amount of scrap aluminum involved. I >> >have LOTS of late '70's through 80's computer equipment. Much of it too >> heavy >> >to toss, else it would already be gone. Let me know if there's something >> >specific you want. Perhaps I have it! >> >> Well, I have been keeping an eye out for a QBus-to-SCSI board, though that >> may be a little late-model for the collection it sounds like you have. >> >> Two questions: >> >> 1). Where are you located? >> >> 2). Since it sounds like you're a collector, would you be interested in >> subscribing to a listserver, out of the University of Washington, with a >> bunch of other collectors on there? If not, I can forward a list of >> whatever you'd like to get rid of to the list. >> >> Thanks again! >> >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >> Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) >> (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) >> http://www.wizards.net/technoid >> "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own >> human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Fri Aug 29 09:39:16 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:53 2005 Subject: DEC Assistance In-Reply-To: <9708281458.AA28936@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970829073916.00e24580@mail.wizards.net> At 07:58 28-08-97 -0800, you wrote: >> Tim or Allison, I could really use your help. Tim, I think something in >> the mail system may be preventing my messages from reaching you. > >That might be. I see your messages here on classiccmp, at least... That, at least, is something... for a while, I thought I had pestered you to death or some silly thing... ;-) >OK, one last attempt with VMS EXCHANGE: Thank you! It all worked, and I now have the necessary files unZIPped onto the MicroVAX. Now the next hurdle; Ever since I installed OpenVMS 6.2, my second TK50 has disappeared. The device scan, at initial boot, won't even detect it. Hardware setup is: KA630 CPU, v. 1.3 firmware 16 MB memory M3104 8-port serial MUX DELQA Ethernet card (M7516YA) RQDX3 (M7555), two RD54's and an RX50 Two TK50 drives/controllers (M7546) RRD40 CD-ROM controller (M7552) The Really Odd Thing is that it worked before, under MicroVMS 4.6, but now it won't even work with that. I suspect, though I've not confirmed it yet, that it may have to do with: 1). The fact that I've added a CD-ROM controller (appears as DUB0:)... 2). The order that I've got boards plugged into the backplane (BA123 box). Tonight, I will try transposing the positions of the two TK50 controllers I have. I will also try jumpering the suspect controller as the primary and removing the RRD40's board. Any suggestions would be welcome. As mentioned, I find it interesting that two TK50's worked under MicroVMS 4.6, then suddenly stopped working under 6.2. Do I need to use SYSGEN, perhaps, after the fact? If so, what string do I feed it? (low on docs again!) For comparison/test purposes, I'm going to CC this to the CLASSICCMP mailing list as well as your return address. Whichever one you see first will tell me if there really is a problem with the mail system. CLASSICCMP users, my apologies. Please bear with me until I can figure out what's been going weird with mail to Tim's site. Thanks in advance! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 29 10:49:45 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: DEC Assistance In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970829073916.00e24580@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 29, 97 07:39:16 am Message-ID: <9708291449.AA03274@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1802 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970829/b243acf4/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Aug 29 10:55:31 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: FW: Old data storage devices In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970829071405.00e79990@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 29, 97 07:14:05 am Message-ID: <9708291455.AA03342@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1421 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970829/6a9b9419/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Fri Aug 29 11:46:16 1997 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Laser Magnetic Storage Co. Message-ID: <199708291658.JAA21288@mx2.u.washington.edu> > > Anyone ever heard of "Laser Magnetic Storage Co."? They made mass > > storage > > devices...I'm trying to find a driver. > > > > Thanks > > manney@nwohio.com > They are part of Philips, they still operate as Philips-LMS and now make > optical drives sold under the Philips brand. > > James Thanks a lot! I'll check. Manney From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 29 16:58:46 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs References: <199708291658.JAA21288@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34074615.BB762D85@rain.org> I went over this morning and was checking out all the documentation. Turned out the guy was a programmer for IBM and worked on the 1130 followed by later stuff. There is a lot of software and operational documentation including the 1130 and 360 with a few others interspersed. She will let me know after a friend of hers takes a look at the IBM stuff and takes what he wants. If anyone has any interest in this type of stuff, let me know. I hate to see it dumped and I have no room or any real desire to have it. As far as the Bouroughs stuff, there is a LOT of docs there to as he worked for Bouroughs here in Santa Barbara as a programmer before they left town. Docs include the B1000, B1700, and a few others I can't recall now. Also there are probably 25 - 30 boxes of IBM cards with programs on them. So far, I can't tell which machine they go to but a goodly number of them appear (from comparing the dates of where he worked and the dates on the cards) to be for one of the Bouroughs machines. There is at least one box with "1620" on it. If there are docs and listings, they most likely either have been recycled or soon will be as I don't have the time to try and corolate listings with decks. All this stuff will most likely be dumped unless someone says they want them. I don't remember the names on the cards, but it seemed that a number of them appeared to be utility programs. I looked for any boxes of unpunched cards, and didn't see any. Finally, there are about 24+ binders full of manuals that say "Company Confidential" on them. I do not know what to do with these things or how to get a release on them. As of now, they will be recycled unless someone wants them and finds out how to get a release from Bouroughs (which I guess is Unisys now). From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 29 17:28:45 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs In-Reply-To: <34074615.BB762D85@rain.org> References: <199708291658.JAA21288@mx2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970829152845.006bfb64@ferrari.sfu.ca> At 02:58 PM 97/08/29 -0700, you wrote: >cards) to be for one of the Bouroughs machines. There is at least one box >with "1620" on it. YIKES!!! RED ALERT! I am writing a 1620 emulator and am looking very seriously for 1620 software!!!! PLEASE don't let them dispose of this! I will pay for shipping! Looking forward to hearing from you, Kevin --- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From william at ans.net Fri Aug 29 18:10:43 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970829152845.006bfb64@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <199708292310.AA16756@interlock.ans.net> > YIKES!!! RED ALERT! Exactly. I think that just about everything ought to be saved, but I would place any ancient maintenance/utility software first. Programming books survive, but punched cards and paper tape do not. > PLEASE don't let them dispose of this! I will pay for shipping! I will as well (for the non-1620 stuff). I assume that this is on the West coast. Shipping may be a bit - just about how many pounds of paper are there? I would not worry about the old Burroughs "secret" binders. First, nobody would care, and second, legal protection may have expired (if these are as old as I think they are). William Donzelli william@ans.net From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 29 19:22:08 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs References: <199708291658.JAA21288@mx2.u.washington.edu> <3.0.1.32.19970829152845.006bfb64@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <340767AF.8F3CFA98@rain.org> Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > At 02:58 PM 97/08/29 -0700, you wrote: > >cards) to be for one of the Bouroughs machines. There is at least one > box > >with "1620" on it. > > YIKES!!! RED ALERT! > > I am writing a 1620 emulator and am looking very seriously for 1620 > software!!!! Okay, I'll take a look. However at this point, everything with the words "IBM" on them are on hold since the other guy wants to take a look at the stuff. If he takes it, we are out of luck. Also, remember these are punched cards and I didn't look at them so I don't know what programs might be in the box(s); do you have a card reader? I don't know when he will look at it but apparently he works at one of the IBM research labs in NY state. BTW, I loved your "YIKES!!! RED ALERT!" and it got the message across :)! From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 29 19:34:21 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs References: <199708292310.AA16756@interlock.ans.net> Message-ID: <34076A8D.3131DF3@rain.org> William Donzelli wrote: > > YIKES!!! RED ALERT! > > Exactly. > > I think that just about everything ought to be saved, but I would place > any ancient maintenance/utility software first. Programming books > survive, but punched cards and paper tape do not. As I said, there are somewhere around 30 boxes or so of programs on punched cards. I just shipped an almost full box of IBM cards and it weighed 8 pounds. So it appears we are talking 250 pounds or so of just cards. A rough guess is that there is around 1000 pounds of documentation there including the cards and manuals. Again, I don't know what computer these cards go to. I *really* wish I had met this guy while he was still alive! Also, do I gather that you both would like the printed software listings also? Between those and the other "Company Confidential" manuals, another couple hundred pounds can be added to the total. We won't mention the two truckloads of paper that has already hit the recycler. > > PLEASE don't let them dispose of this! I will pay for shipping! > > I will as well (for the non-1620 stuff). I assume that this is on the West > > coast. Shipping may be a bit - just about how many pounds of paper are > there? > > I would not worry about the old Burroughs "secret" binders. First, > nobody would care, and second, legal protection may have expired (if > these are as old as I think they are). They probably are not that old as he started working for Bouroughs at the end of 1969. Apparently there is someone else still in town who used to work at that plant and I hope to get in touch with them. The woman who has all the stuff said she would talk to some of the people she knows who used to work at Bouroughs and get their opinion. She also said there were a lot of older computer books upstairs and I hope to be able to take a look at them either Sunday (tomorrow is TRW Swap meet!) or early next week From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Aug 29 20:55:30 1997 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs In-Reply-To: <340767AF.8F3CFA98@rain.org> References: <199708291658.JAA21288@mx2.u.washington.edu> <3.0.1.32.19970829152845.006bfb64@ferrari.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970829185530.00b36620@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:22 PM 8/29/97 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, I'll take a look. However at this point, everything with the words >"IBM" on them are on hold since the other guy wants to take a look at the >stuff. If he takes it, we are out of luck. Also, remember these are >punched cards and I didn't look at them so I don't know what programs might >be in the box(s); do you have a card reader? I don't know when he will look >at it but apparently he works at one of the IBM research labs in NY state. for future reference as the need arises... I have a functioning card reader in my collection. So if we need anything moved to a more 'conventional' media, let me know. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Fri Aug 29 21:15:50 1997 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Assistance Requested Identifying Card In-Reply-To: <9708291455.AA03342@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: Yes, 'tis I WireHead Prime (aka Anthony Clifton) =-) Actually, I've run across a GREAT find of some S100 stuff and will be going next week to a warehouse to make what promises to be a great haul of stuff. In the meantime, as a sampler, the company gave me three boards: An IMS 16k static ram board, a Piiceon 65k SuperRam2, which I may later request some help with but it's the last board that has me a bit boggled: It's a Piiceon Superam 5, apparently, but all the RAM sockets are empty. It APPEARS to be a dynamic RAM card (I COULD be wrong) but I would appreciate any advice/help/etc anyone could offer as to what it is precisely and what the memory sockets are supposed to be filled with (all other sockets are populated) and what the jumper settings are for. PS: For those have been visiting _THE Computer Center_ thanks... it'll be much more complete by the 1st and I'm currently downloading about 16 megs of images (from a borrowed Olympus digital camera) to my ancient Mac LC for processing to a smaller size. The FTP site is operational but I'm waiting for the nameserver at work to reboot in the morning for it to update to the correct address before creating the actual links to it. Anthony Clifton - WireHead Prime wirehead@retrocomputing.com http://www.retrocomputing.com http://www.retrocomputing.org From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Aug 29 21:33:55 1997 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs In-Reply-To: <340767AF.8F3CFA98@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Aug 29, 97 05:22:08 pm Message-ID: <199708300233.TAA27061@fraser> Hi Marvin: > Okay, I'll take a look. However at this point, everything with the words > "IBM" on them are on hold since the other guy wants to take a look at the > stuff. If he takes it, we are out of luck. Also, remember these are > punched cards and I didn't look at them so I don't know what programs might > be in the box(s); do you have a card reader? I don't know when he will look > at it but apparently he works at one of the IBM research labs in NY state. Okay. Presumably if the other fellow takes the card decks then he could probably be convinced to make them available to others on the net with a need. I don't have a card reader, but getting and preserving the programs is more important, there are a few collectors with card readers who could read the decks later. I have located a few programs for the 1620, such as a FORTRAN compiler and an assembler, but ANYTHING for the 1620 may be of value as my emulator develops. Not monetary value, but historical value, of course! The emulator is running simple programs and has about 2/3 of the 1620 instruction set complete. It's a "spare time" project but with the end of summer my pace may slow somewhat with work responsibilities etc. Thanks for the reply and I hope that the programs get preserved one way or another. If the other guy takes them could you please try to get him to agree to make the contents of the card decks available to the collecting community? Talk to you later. > BTW, I loved your "YIKES!!! RED ALERT!" and it got the message across :)! It worked! Kevin -- Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD mcquiggi@sfu.ca From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 29 22:02:35 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Bouroughs/IBM docs References: <199708300233.TAA27061@fraser> Message-ID: <34078D4B.573888DE@rain.org> Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > Hi Marvin: > > Okay. Presumably if the other fellow takes the card decks then he could > probably be convinced to make them available to others on the net with a > need. > > I don't have a card reader, but getting and preserving the programs is > more important, there are a few collectors with card readers who could > read the decks later. I just saw a post from Jim who has a card reader that can do the job. BTW, I was thinking about these posts a while ago and I should point out that I have no idea what these punched card programs are. They may be original programs or they could well be something that was written by the guy who died and he kept. Anyway you or anyone else here knows how to tell if these are submitted programs or actual programs for the computers? It never occurred to me that these might be the way the early programs were distributed ... I had always figured they just got passed around on floppy disks :). If these are the actual distributed programs, they have just jumped WAY up on the priority list! Glad I mentioned them as I almost didn't. Whew! From adam at merlin.net.au Fri Aug 29 22:20:00 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits Message-ID: Hi! You probably already know, but I just found a keen site selling Sinclair ZX81 kits in the US. Apparantly they opicked up the original kits years ago, and are only now trying to sell them. I am interested in putting one of these togeather, as the ZX81 was a fascinating computer, and highly significant in the Home Computer industry - especially in the UK. Anyway, it's at: http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts and all the standard disclaimers apply. :) Adam. From dastar at crl.com Sat Aug 30 01:41:20 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: help with some recent finds Message-ID: Ok, I picked up some keen stuff today that I'd like to hopefully get some information for. 1. Tektronix 4041 Computer/Controller. Now this is neat. Unfortunately it doesn't do a whole lot at the moment. First a description: its about 8" wide by 8" high (front) by 2' long. It has a built-in 20 column thermal printer and a DC-100 tape drive. The front panel consists of a numeric keypad plus some other special function keys, an LED display and some status LEDs. I opened it up and found that it is a 68000 based system. It seems to use an S-100 bus, since the cards have S-100 edge connectors. It has four slots, and two of the slots are filled. One has the CPU card with the 68000 processor. The other is a Standard I/O card. The two other slots are Read/Write Memory (RAM) and an Option Card slot. The front panel also has a slot for a ROM pack. The ROM pack is a tray that pulls out and has two ROM packs plugged in with room for 4 more ROM packs. The ROM packs included allow for BASIC programming. On the back is an RS-232C port and a GP-IB (IEEE488) port. It is circa 1981. When I first booted it up the printer started spitting out paper. The next time I turned it on only the power LED came on. I then turned it off and opened up the cover to examine its innards. I pulled each card and checked them out then replaced them. I turned it back on and this time got "SELF TEST" on the display. It never does anything after that. I got two manuals with it, and of what I've read so far, the self test should check all the controllers for the tape drive, the printer, the front panel, and perform other diagnostics, then show the ROM version, but it never does this. I'm wondering if a lack of a RAM card is the culprit. This system also came with an optional programming keyboard, which was just a full size keyboard for entering in programs. If anyone can shed any light on this sucker and what else it could do I would appreciate it. I remember seeing in a book I have a picture of the graphics output of some Tektronix computer on a screen. I can't remember what book this was in or even where that book may be. I wonder if this is the system that produced that output? 2. A Lynx 460 Floppy Drive Alignment Tester. It has two connectors for 8" and 5.25" floppy drives. It has all sorts of toggle switches on it for selecting the drive (1, 2, 3 or 4), the head (1 or 0), the track address, etc. It also has status LEDs to show, for instance, Amplitude, Radial, Head Load, etc. Not that I know what any of this means (not yet at least, I got it with manuals and the manuals have a nice introduction to disk drive theory of operation). Anyway, apparently you use this in conjunction with alignment disks. Looks like a cool box (it's very small, the size of a notebook) that will come in handy in years to come. Any further information on either of these would be appreciated. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk Sat Aug 30 00:42:30 1997 From: e.tedeschi at ndirect.co.uk (e.tedeschi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits References: Message-ID: <3407B2C6.6F29@ndirect.co.uk> Adam Jenkins wrote: > > Hi! > > You probably already know, but I just found a keen site selling Sinclair > ZX81 kits in the US. Apparantly they opicked up the original kits years > ago, and are only now trying to sell them. I am interested in putting one > of these togeather, as the ZX81 was a fascinating computer, and highly > significant in the Home Computer industry - especially in the UK. > > Anyway, it's at: > > http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts > > and all the standard disclaimers apply. :) > > Adam. Thank you for pointing this to me BUT.....I have tried e-mailing and snail mailing them and....they don't answer. Fullstop. Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. However their kits are American and that means that the machines will NOT work in UK. Good luck. enrico -- ============================================================ Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile website: ============================================================ From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Aug 30 08:37:10 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits Message-ID: <199708301336.IAA17138@sunflower.com> Wont they work if you just get an PAL RF modulator? Or don't install the modulator and just use a composite monitor. ---------- > From: e.tedeschi > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Sinclair kits > Date: Saturday, August 30, 1997 12:42 AM > > Adam Jenkins wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > You probably already know, but I just found a keen site selling Sinclair > > ZX81 kits in the US. Apparantly they opicked up the original kits years > > ago, and are only now trying to sell them. I am interested in putting one > > of these togeather, as the ZX81 was a fascinating computer, and highly > > significant in the Home Computer industry - especially in the UK. > > > > Anyway, it's at: > > > > http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts > > > > and all the standard disclaimers apply. :) > > > > Adam. > > Thank you for pointing this to me BUT.....I have tried > e-mailing and snail mailing them and....they don't answer. > Fullstop. > > Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. > However their kits are American and that means that the > machines will NOT work in UK. > > Good luck. > > enrico > -- > ============================================================ > Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K. > tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile > website: > ============================================================ > From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 30 18:33:23 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits References: <3407B2C6.6F29@ndirect.co.uk> Message-ID: <3408ADC3.D28177FB@rain.org> e.tedeschi wrote: > Adam Jenkins wrote: > > > You probably already know, but I just found a keen site selling Sinclair > > > ZX81 kits in the US. Apparantly they opicked up the original kits years > Thank you for pointing this to me BUT.....I have tried > e-mailing and snail mailing them and....they don't answer. > Fullstop. Oops, that is good to know. I did a web search of the company name (zebra systems, Inc. ???) and found it listed at another site as a supplier of ZX81 kits. > Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. > However their kits are American and that means that the > machines will NOT work in UK. There is no reason the kits won't work anywhere in the world as long as the input to the external power supply is compatible with local power. Also, the back of my mind says that when I checked their site last night, they did say no overseas shipping. If you like, I can find out how much it costs to ship one to the UK and let you know what the total cost would be. They state shipping is $10 for the first unit, and $5 for each additional unit. So you would be looking at $30 for the kit, $7.50 for shipping here ($10 + $5 = $15/2 = $7.50), plus shipping to the UK. From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 30 19:40:34 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits oops References: <3407B2C6.6F29@ndirect.co.uk> <3408ADC3.D28177FB@rain.org> Message-ID: <3408BD81.741F2321@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > e.tedeschi wrote: > > > Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. > > However their kits are American and that means that the > > machines will NOT work in UK. > > There is no reason the kits won't work anywhere in the world as long as > the > input to the external power supply is compatible with local power. Also, Oops, I forgot about the different scanning rates for the TV's. Sorry about that! From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 30 20:11:31 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro Robie References: <3407B2C6.6F29@ndirect.co.uk> <3408ADC3.D28177FB@rain.org> Message-ID: <3408C4C3.13CAE6D5@rain.org> A friend of mine just acquired a Kaypro Robie. Anyone know anything about this computer as far as how common it was? Also has anyone heard of Drivetec drives? Thanks. From thorh at ismennt.is Sun Aug 31 03:43:06 1997 From: thorh at ismennt.is (Thorhallur Ragnarsson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits oops References: <3407B2C6.6F29@ndirect.co.uk> <3408ADC3.D28177FB@rain.org> <3408BD81.741F2321@rain.org> Message-ID: <34092E9A.3FE4@ismennt.is> Marvin wrote: > > Marvin wrote: > > > e.tedeschi wrote: > > > > > Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. > > > However their kits are American and that means that the > > > machines will NOT work in UK. > > > > There is no reason the kits won't work anywhere in the world as long as > > the > > input to the external power supply is compatible with local power. Also, > > Oops, I forgot about the different scanning rates for the TV's. Sorry about that! Don?t worry about the different scanning rates - they are not all that different. The PAL picture uses 625lines and 25frames/sec = 15625Hz line frequency, the NTSC picture has 525lines and 30frames/sec = 15750Hz line frequency. The ZX-81 output is Black and White only and my experience is that most B/W TV sets and even many Colour sets will quite happily display any B/W picture without problems. On the other hand there could be a problem with the modulator RF channel output (UK=UHF, US=VHF) so the TUNER in a foreign TV might not receive the signal. The main differences (PAL vs. NTSC) are how these systems handle colour and the sound is also not compatible, there are even some regional variations in sound transmissions within the PAL areas. I assembled my ZX-81 kit in 1981 but unfortunately I modified (read: ruined) it later by adding a battery backup/8KRAM of my own design when using it as an EPROM programmer, it still works though! I would really like to buy a new kit from Zebra Systems, but they say they don't supply overseas - well there must be some way around that. Best regards, ??rhallur. From william at ans.net Sat Aug 30 21:02:56 1997 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits oops In-Reply-To: <34092E9A.3FE4@ismennt.is> Message-ID: <199708310202.AA15597@interlock.ans.net> > > > > However their kits are American and that means that the > > > > machines will NOT work in UK. It seems to me (when I built one of these things) that the kit will do all three standards. The instructions were _horrible_, and kept switching between the three ways to build the thing. William Donzelli william@ans.net From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Aug 30 21:19:47 1997 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Are you receiving this? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970830191947.00e7b350@mail.wizards.net> CLASSICCMP READERS: Please pardon the CC. I'm still not sure that Tim is able to receive mail from me for whatever reason. Ok... here's the current status. I've used SYSGEN as you described, reset a couple of cards as needed to correct some mis-set addresses, and put everything back together. I've used AUTOCONFIG ALL /SELECT=(PU,PT,XQ,TX). This should have configured the tapes, the disks, the DELQA, and the DHV11. I then issued the commands: SYSGEN> WRITE ACTIVE SYSGEN> WRITE CURRENT SYSGEN> EXIT I then shut down and rebooted. However, the second TK50 still does not appear to be available under any of the device names. It should, I thought, come up as MUB0:, PUA0: or PUB0:. I cannot mount it under any of those designators. At this point, I am reinstalling OpenVMS 6.2 from scratch on another drive. I'll see what happens then. I've borrowed some documentation that covers SYSGEN, but either I'm not doing something right or I've overlooked something so basic that either one of us might take it for granted. Could the problems I've been having with the license management affect it? As soon as I get the hardware issues dealt with, I can -- FINALLY!! -- copy that stupid tape! Please let me know if you receive this in your E-mail box or only from CLASSICCMP. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Aug 30 22:53:33 1997 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Are you receiving this? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970830191947.00e7b350@mail.wizards.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Aug 30, 97 07:19:47 pm Message-ID: <9708310253.AA09372@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1912 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970830/050918a6/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sat Aug 30 22:58:51 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits oops References: <3407B2C6.6F29@ndirect.co.uk> <3408ADC3.D28177FB@rain.org> <3408BD81.741F2321@rain.org> <34092E9A.3FE4@ismennt.is> Message-ID: <3408EBFB.8FA370ED@rain.org> Thorhallur Ragnarsson wrote: > I assembled my ZX-81 kit in 1981 but unfortunately I modified (read: > ruined) > it later by adding a battery backup/8KRAM of my own design when using it > as > an EPROM programmer, it still works though! > > I would really like to buy a new kit from Zebra Systems, but they say they > > don't supply overseas - well there must be some way around that. As I told Enrico, I don't mind ordering the kits and shipping them overseas. If you let me know your location (don't recognize the .is in your email address), I can find out what shipping costs are from here in California to your location. From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 31 00:26:25 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro Robie In-Reply-To: <3408C4C3.13CAE6D5@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, Marvin wrote: > A friend of mine just acquired a Kaypro Robie. Anyone know anything about > this computer as far as how common it was? Also has anyone heard of > Drivetec drives? Thanks. The Robie was about the last variant of an 8-bit machine that Kaypro built. The Housing was distinctly different from the previous 'luggable' versions from the Kaycomp to the Kaypro 16. Because of its black finish and shape, the Robie earned the nickname of "Darth Vader's Lunchbox". In fact, even within the Robie line there were a couple of minro variants of the drive 'blister' on top. There were relatively few built, though I cannot provide any numerics. The Drivetec drives were a bit of a marvel for the time. They were 5.25" floppy drives that recorded at 192 tpi (tracks per inch) - twice that of the present day 1.2 and 1.44mb drives. They had an unformatted capacity of about 3.3mb (sorry, I cannot immediately lay my hands on the fact sheet) and a formatted capacity of about 2.8mb. The media was rather special in that it was factory formatted with servo tracks which a vernier servo motor in the drive caused the heads to follow. It should also be noted that some of the drives were known to be rather destructive of the media. Kodak (of camera and film fame) subsequently purchased the design from Drivetec and went on to develop a 6.6mb (unformatted) version and, I believe, another in the 10mb range. The designs and development operation were ultimately sold to a Japanese company. Of my knowledge, nothing further has been heard of the design, but one may hope that some long term good has/will come out of the research and development. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Sun Aug 31 00:24:16 1997 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970831052416.0084aac8@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 07:42 AM 30/08/97 +0200, you wrote: >Adam Jenkins wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> You probably already know, but I just found a keen site selling Sinclair >> ZX81 kits in the US. Apparantly they opicked up the original kits years >> ago, and are only now trying to sell them. I am interested in putting one >> of these togeather, as the ZX81 was a fascinating computer, and highly >> significant in the Home Computer industry - especially in the UK. >> >> Anyway, it's at: >> >> http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts >> >> and all the standard disclaimers apply. :) >> >> Adam. > >Thank you for pointing this to me BUT.....I have tried >e-mailing and snail mailing them and....they don't answer. >Fullstop. > >Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. >However their kits are American and that means that the >machines will NOT work in UK. > Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the ZX81 a UK machine? I was under the understanding that it was sold in North America as the TS1000 (Timex/Sinclair). I'm pretty sure the ZX81 was made in the UK (at least that's what mine says on the case). Of course I'm not sure if it was made in the UK for a North American market... ---------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS The Man From D.A.D ---------------------------------------------------------------- From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 31 01:33:54 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro Robie In-Reply-To: References: <3408C4C3.13CAE6D5@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970831023354.00bed100@mail.northernway.net> At 10:26 PM 8/30/97 -0700, Don wrote: >The Drivetec drives were a bit of a marvel for the time. They were 5.25" >floppy drives that recorded at 192 tpi (tracks per inch) - twice that of >the present day 1.2 and 1.44mb drives. Don, A small nit to pick, but _all_ 3.5" floppies are 135 tracks/inch. This is true from my SSSD 200K Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2 for my Tandy 200, all the way up to 2.88Meg 3.5" floppy drives. As far as I know, there weren't any (or at least not many) 1.44Meg 5.25" drives ever built, so I am assuming you were referring to the 3.5" floppy drive when you listed the later size. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From thedm at sunflower.com Sun Aug 31 07:22:00 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits Message-ID: <199708311220.HAA02364@sunflower.com> The ZX81 was sold in both the US and the UK, the US version had a VHF RF modulator and the UK version had a UHF modulator. ---------- > From: Alan Richards > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Sinclair kits > Date: Sunday, August 31, 1997 12:24 AM > > At 07:42 AM 30/08/97 +0200, you wrote: > >Adam Jenkins wrote: > >> > >> Hi! > >> > >> You probably already know, but I just found a keen site selling Sinclair > >> ZX81 kits in the US. Apparantly they opicked up the original kits years > >> ago, and are only now trying to sell them. I am interested in putting one > >> of these togeather, as the ZX81 was a fascinating computer, and highly > >> significant in the Home Computer industry - especially in the UK. > >> > >> Anyway, it's at: > >> > >> http://www.users.interport.net/~zebra/ts > >> > >> and all the standard disclaimers apply. :) > >> > >> Adam. > > > >Thank you for pointing this to me BUT.....I have tried > >e-mailing and snail mailing them and....they don't answer. > >Fullstop. > > > >Perhaps they don't supply overseas. Try and let me know. > >However their kits are American and that means that the > >machines will NOT work in UK. > > > > > Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the ZX81 a UK machine? I was under > the understanding that it was sold in North America as the TS1000 > (Timex/Sinclair). I'm pretty sure the ZX81 was made in the UK (at least > that's what mine says on the case). > Of course I'm not sure if it was made in the UK for a North American market... > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________Live from the GLRS > The Man From D.A.D > ---------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 31 19:02:44 1997 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro Robie In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970831023354.00bed100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Aug 1997, Roger Merchberger wrote: > At 10:26 PM 8/30/97 -0700, Don wrote: > > >The Drivetec drives were a bit of a marvel for the time. They were 5.25" > >floppy drives that recorded at 192 tpi (tracks per inch) - twice that of > >the present day 1.2 and 1.44mb drives. > > Don, > A small nit to pick, but _all_ 3.5" floppies are 135 tracks/inch. This is > true from my SSSD 200K Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2 for my Tandy 200, all > the way up to 2.88Meg 3.5" floppy drives. No, I meant exactly what I said - and for the record, 1.44mb 3.5" and 1.2 5.25" floppy drives are 96 tracks/inch (tpi), not 135. > As far as I know, there weren't any (or at least not many) 1.44Meg 5.25" > drives ever built, so I am assuming you were referring to the 3.5" floppy > drive when you listed the later size. > > HTH, > "Merch" > -- > Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* > zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. > - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From krh03 at csufresno.edu Sun Aug 31 10:05:19 1997 From: krh03 at csufresno.edu (Ken Harbit) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Sinclair kits In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19970831052416.0084aac8@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Message-ID: <199709010018.RAA14305@lennon.csufresno.edu> > Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the ZX81 a UK machine? I was under > the understanding that it was sold in North America as the TS1000 > (Timex/Sinclair). I'm pretty sure the ZX81 was made in the UK (at least > that's what mine says on the case). Several years ago found a ZX81 (marked on the case) at a swap meet in San Diego, it worked on American tv. I opened it up, it did not look like anyone made any changes. Ken Harbit From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Aug 31 19:50:17 1997 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Challenger 2P Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970901005017.00679a5c@pop3.concentric.net> Picked up few new finds this week. 1. A Challenger 2P (Model C2-4P) by Ohio Scientific SN5040. Anyone have spec's on this one?; 2. ATARI 1040STF with mouse; 3. A IBM 5110, had to leave the 8inch drive unit and the printer no more in car; 4. Tandy FD 501 unit; 5. IBM tape unit Type 3363; 6. SUN SPARC station 1 model147; 7. CPT9000; and 8. Nextstation and color monitor. Now to get it all cleaned up and working. From marvin at rain.org Sun Aug 31 20:57:47 1997 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Challenger 2P References: <1.5.4.32.19970901005017.00679a5c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <340A211B.AC0F31B3@rain.org> John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Picked up few new finds this week. 1. A Challenger 2P (Model C2-4P) by > Ohio > Scientific SN5040. Anyone have spec's on this one? Interesting find! I have the Ohio Scientific Challlenger II, Model C2-4P, S/N732 and haven't found much info on it. The machine was obtained from a friend of a friend and no docs or anything came with it. So I also would be interested in any information you find out about this machine! From thedm at sunflower.com Sun Aug 31 22:11:13 1997 From: thedm at sunflower.com (thedm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Challenger 2P Message-ID: <199709010310.WAA12328@sunflower.com> I recently aquired a 1040STe and STf as well. It's a great machine, If you need a monitor for one I know where you can get a color 14inch stereo monitor for 85.00. This machine will do Slip, PPP and do just about anything a PC will do on the web, {with some upgrades} the Atari ST's were very cool machines I've found. If you need any info or help with the Atari, don't hesitate to ask, Its a wonderful fun machine. ---------- > From: Adam Jenkins > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Challenger 2P > Date: Sunday, August 31, 1997 9:45 PM > > >John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > > >> Picked up few new finds this week. 1. A Challenger 2P (Model C2-4P) by > >> Ohio > >> Scientific SN5040. Anyone have spec's on this one? > > > >Interesting find! I have the Ohio Scientific Challlenger II, Model C2-4P, > >S/N732 and haven't found much info on it. The machine was obtained from a > >friend of a friend and no docs or anything came with it. So I also would be > >interested in any information you find out about this machine! > > I don't have much, but I can give some of what I know. Ohio Scientific > made, or so I gather, four 8 bit home computers - the C1P, C2P, C4P and > C8P. Most of my info seems to be on the C8P, which was regarded as The Home > Computer of the Future largely due to its ability to control your security > system, electrical appliances (like lights), smoke alarms and so on, as > well as being able to dial up the police when needed. > > The C2P, according to the little I have here, was a CIP with more ports, as > the IP had but one. Thus the info I have on specs is mostly for the 1P, not > the 2P, so I will give that in case it helps. > > Anyway, the IP is said to have been the first fully packaged home computer > that you could just plug in and use. It came with either the MOS 6502 or > Motorola 6800 cpu as standard (depending on your requirements) and had a > CPU expansion board, allowing the addition of a Z80 or one of several other > popular CPU's. It had a standard 53 key keyboard, upper and lower case > letters, and 64 char by 24 line mono video. 4k or 12K RAM was standard, > with8k BASIC in ROM. > > Sorry that I don't have more, but my interest tends to lie in the history, > rather than the specs. Just for fun, it is worth noting that Ohio > Scientific is noted for being the first PC Company to have a woman (Charity > Engel Cheiky, I think) as President. > > Adam. > From dastar at crl.com Sun Aug 31 22:57:10 1997 From: dastar at crl.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Challenger 2P In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Adam Jenkins wrote: > rather than the specs. Just for fun, it is worth noting that Ohio > Scientific is noted for being the first PC Company to have a woman (Charity > Engel Cheiky, I think) as President. Isn't that distinction held by one of the two ladies who started Vector Graphics in the late 70s? Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass From archive at navix.net Sat Aug 9 01:23:54 1997 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: C-64c, How common? References: <199801080420.OAA02158@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <33EC0CF9.CA43793D@navix.net> I have a C64c, although I haven't found them to be very common. This unit may be for sell as well if anyone is looking for one. Also, I too found a C64 in a third party case that looked just like the c-64... and it also was made in Australia. I can get this for anyone that might want this unit as well. Let me know. CORD COSLOR adam@merlin.net.au wrote: > >I'm starting to wonder about how common the C-64c is. I have yet to see > >one, I picked up the manuals when a favorite bookstore had a set a few > >months back. Then last weekend I was at the bookstore and they had like 3 > >or 4 sets of manual. But like I said I've never seen an actual computer! > > I'm assuming you mean the different case design - over here (South > Australia) they seem to be as common as the old breadbox sort, but I > suspect that in numbers they are slightly less than the older designs. I > have three of them, and I only wanted the one. As far as I know there are > no functional changes, although Commodore had a history of working out > ways to make systems cheaper, so there may be a difference internally. > > I did find one old C64 in a third-party case which looked very much like > the C64c, though. Interestingly enough it was made here - I would have > picked it up, but I shy away from collecting computers based on the > different cases, as there are too many to collect just based on the > different systems themselves, and space is limited. > > Adam. From archive at navix.net Wed Aug 13 11:37:38 1997 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Tech. manual (was: help with TRS-80 Model II?) References: <34b952d9.13571571@mail.tgis.co.uk> Message-ID: <33F1E2D1.C6A0958B@navix.net> I have a TRS-80 technical manual... any interest. Christopher Denham wrote: > On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:03:28 +0000 (GMT), you wrote: > > >> > >> On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> ........ > >> > What is the reset pin doing at the Z80? And what is the WAIT* pin doing. > >> > I wonder if the CPU is either stuck in the reset state, or in a wait > >> > state. > >> > >> RESET* is low for about 500 ms after power-on, then goes high. WAIT* is > >> always high. > >> > >> > I'm pretty sure that if the CPU is halted, it continues to produce > >> > refresh addresses, so you'd see some activity on the address lines and on > >> > RFSH*. Can't hurt to check, though. > >> > >> RFSH* is at a solid 1.4v, and doesn't move with a pull-up. > > > >Wait a second... It's at a constant, DC 1.4V? Are you sure? > > > >You're not missing a power line, are you? I suppose a low supply rail on > >chips driven by this signal could cause some strange happenings. Check > >all the outputs from the power supply with a 'scope. Apart from that, I > >am confused. There's no way a TTL output should be stuck at that voltage. > > > > > >> part is tri-stated. Data bus lines D0-D2 and D7 are at a firm 1.4v. D3 > >> is tri-stated and can be pulled to 5v. D4-D6 are low and pull-up to 1.4v. > > > >Kersqueeble... What on earth is going on here. > > > >> Now, here's where it gets interesting. NMI* had an irregular pulse train > >> coming into it- at the same time the display was flickering. I shut off > > > >There may well be an interrupt from the display system to the CPU - a > >sort of poor-mans heartbeat for the real time clock. > > > > > >> and turned on again, and the display was blank and NMI* was high. INT*, > >> WAIT*, BUSRQ*, and RESET* are high, BUSAK* is low, and HALT*, MREQ*, > >> IORQ*, RD*, WR*, M1*, and RFSH* are all at a solid 1.4v. (???) > > > >That 1.4V worries me. What about the buffers on these signals? Are they > >getting the 5V power? > > > >> > >> > Do you have a schematic of the gate-array version of the M4 CPU board? > >> > I've got an M4 here with said board, and it's the only part of the system > >> > that's not covered in the M3 Techref (which I also have), so I am looking > >> > for a copy/scanned in version of the diagram. > >> > > >> > I would buy a Model 4 technical manual, but Tandy in the UK are totally > >> > clueless and assured me that there was no such machine as a 'TRS-80' :-) > >> > >> I have a 6-page schematic for the CPU, and it shows 4 PAL's. It is dated > >> 23 Feb 1983. Contact me privately and we'll work out how to get it from > >> here to there. > > > >Alas, I think that's the older version of the CPU board. Is there a 6845 > >on it? Later versions, like the one in my machine, have a custom Tandy 40 > >pin gate array alongside the CPU which contains most of the video > >circuitry, etc. > > > >On the other hand, it's a lot better than nothing, so if you could make a > >copy of it, we can come to some arrangement about getting it to me. > > > > > >> > >> Richard Schauer > >> rws@ais.net > > > I have a TRS-80 MODEL II TECHNICAL REFERENCE HANDBOOK > Catalog Number 26-4921 dated 1980 and a flatbed scanner so any pages > you would like to see i could email them to you direct ......... > > Cheers Chris Denham cdenham@tgis.co.uk -- _________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net | | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | |-----------------------------------------| | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421-0308 | | (402) 872- 3272 | |_________________________________________| From archive at navix.net Thu Aug 14 09:24:29 1997 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Tech. manual (was: help with TRS-80 Model II?) References: <34b952d9.13571571@mail.tgis.co.uk> <33F1E2D1.C6A0958B@navix.net> <34BAC5E6.97B80AFE@cnct.com> Message-ID: <33F3151C.D3E5A935@navix.net> Actually, Ward, the Model 3 ($ 4) also had a tech manual in a brown 'leather' binder as well. CORD Yeh, I'm switching my date now :-) Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > Cord Coslor wrote: > > > > I have a TRS-80 technical manual... any interest. > > Which one? The many models through the several TRS-80 product lines > generated quite a few. The Model II under discussion had a manual in > a heavy brown binder, the Model I was a black spiral-bound paperback, > the Model III had a light brown perfect-bound paperback. > > Check the date on your system or your ISP's. Somehow this message > showed up with a sending date of last Aug 13. > -- > Ward Griffiths > Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? > WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. -- _________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net | | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | |-----------------------------------------| | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421-0308 | | (402) 872- 3272 | |_________________________________________| From archive at navix.net Wed Aug 13 11:00:12 1997 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: ID help (Commie, IBM, Nissho?) References: <3.0.16.19980119003759.291f9f44@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <33F1DA0B.D8E3AABB@navix.net> The vic-1541 is _exactly_ the same the regular ol' 1541 drive for the C=64. The only differece is the label and the case color. The two drives are interchangeable. CORD Uncle Roger wrote: > Spotted a few things that someone might be interested in, and that I wasn't > sure what they were... > > First, and oddest, was a pizza box labelled Nissho Electronics. Looked > like a workstation, one 3.5". Almost got it, but for $26... Anyone know > what it might have been? > > Commodore 64 for $5, 64c in the box for $15 -- Anyone interested? > > I know what a 1541 disk drive is, but what about a Vic-1541? Is it worth $10? > > I did pick up a C modem/300 (model 1660) for $.99 and an Osborne 1 keyboard > (only!) for (I know, too much, but it's an Osborne!) $5. > > Oh, they also had a few IBM PS/2 style monitors with a single RCA jack > input on the back; they were mounted on little stands, kinda like (I think) > the Apple IIc monitors. Possibly Composite? Possibly from some POS > terminal/cash register? A little steep at $26 though. (Looked new though!) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ -- _________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net | | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | |-----------------------------------------| | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421-0308 | | (402) 872- 3272 | |_________________________________________| From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 10 20:51:57 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: old laptop Message-ID: <199808100202.WAA00751@gate.usaor.net> What auction? -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Joshu2415@aol.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: old laptop > Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 9:00 PM > > The auction is called off. From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 10 20:54:10 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed Message-ID: <199808100202.WAA00762@gate.usaor.net> If anyone has that driver could they send it to me, too? I have a Tandy 1000TL 286 XT w/768K RAM, and no way to access it. Maybe the driver will work in it, too. Maybe it won't - but it's worth a shot :-) -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Russ Blakeman > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: EMS/XMS memory driver needed > Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 9:21 PM > > Someone I know has just acquired a motherboard, XT type aftermarket, > with 768k onboard ram. I'm fairly sure the system is going to need a > special driver to access the memory over DOS's 640k. Anyone have such an > animal and can attach it to email or know of a commercial program that > will handle the job? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Russ Blakeman > RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144 > Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991 > Email: rhblake@bbtel.com or rhblake@bigfoot.com > Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/ > ICQ UIN #1714857 > AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN" > * Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers* > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From roblwill at usaor.net Sun Aug 10 20:57:28 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Lisa battery leakage?? Message-ID: <199808100202.WAA00791@gate.usaor.net> Don't quote me on this - I'm not a Lisa expert. I've heard the internal HD's on Lisa's referred to as a Widget drive, so I believe you're correct on that one. It's sort of like the internal HD on the WANG WLTC was referred to (at least in the manual) as a Winchester Disk. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Zane H. Healy > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Lisa battery leakage?? > Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 8:33 PM > > >On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >> Lisa -- 2 5.25" flippy drives > >[...] > >> NOTE: not too sure flippy and widget are the correct terms. > > > >Don't know about widget, but shouldn't flippy be twiggy? > > Um, yeah, that's it :^) > > Zane > > > >-- Doug > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | From roblwill at usaor.net Mon Aug 11 10:18:49 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Altair prices! Message-ID: <199808101716.NAA26725@gate.usaor.net> > From: Bob Wood > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Altair prices! > Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 8:19 AM > > No, I'm not talking about Ebay prices. > > Instead I thought you might be interested > in seeing an original Altair Price list > from July,1976. Here's the link to a jpeg of it... > http://home.att.net/~rwood54741/25.jpg > > We have heard that the 680 was a failure > because the 16k memory card for it cost more than > the computer. Take a look at this list and you > will see it in black and white. The 680 computer kit > cost $466 ($625 assembled). The 16K memory card cost > a staggering $685 as a kit and $865 assembled. That > is a whopping $43 per 1k of memory. > Yipes! And I thought paying $43 for a 4 meg SIMM a few years ago was expensive! > Bob Wood > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From roblwill at usaor.net Tue Aug 12 13:59:37 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 Message-ID: <199808111935.PAA12434@gate.usaor.net> > Some 70 text lines for a 4 word response, that was already commented on > in this thread. > Now don't you think that's a little much ! > > Larry (in indignant mode) > lwalker@interlog.com Well, I guess it's better than whoever used 0 text lines for a 0 line response. At least with the 70 lines, you know what they're talking about. With 0 text lines, and no response, your guess is as good as mine for what they meant :-) -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 13 08:40:05 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808121351.JAA05197@gate.usaor.net> Oh, well, thinks like that do happen, and there's not much you can do about it. I use MS-MAIL, and a lot of times, I don't even GET some of the messages :-( I hate it, but it's all my computer will run. It seems like every reader has it's problems. -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: cdrmool@interlog.com > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: FW: Dos v2.11 apology > Date: Wednesday, August 12, 1998 5:03 AM > > > Sorry for the empty message back a bit. I understand some people were > annoyed. Let me explain for those who don't use Pine as a mail reader. > The cancel command ctrl-c and cancel ctrl-x are easy to mix up. Its about > as annoying as when using Telix and wanting to shell out (alt-j) and > accidentally hang up (alt-h). Yes, you are prompted to make sure you want to > send after ctrl-x but if your not expecting it, simply expecting to > cancel, hitting the return is done before the prompt is even seen. Also, > being a reasonably fast typist leads to mistakes of overconfidence in what > has been typed. Remappimg the keyboard would be the obvious answer but > after once doing so I caused new problems, so I don't bother. > I promise it will never happen again. > > Colan > From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 13 21:08:23 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: FW: Dos v2.11 apology Message-ID: <199808130226.WAA00816@gate.usaor.net> > I can personally guarantee that that isn't the only mailer/reader your > computer will run. Or I will shit in my hat and wear it backwards for a > month. (If your school/job/ISP has made a decision not to allow to use > anything better, it doesn't mean your computer can't do it). > > well , it WILL run other readers, but they won't fit. I have a Cyrix P200+ w/80 MB RAM, and I had a 425 MB HD with 100 free MB, until lightning hit. Now I'm stuck with a 100MB drive with 5MB free. MS-mail came with IE3.2, which was already on the 100MB drive, along with Win '95. I normally use Outlook Express, with IE4.0, but they just won't fit on this drive :-( -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 From roblwill at usaor.net Wed Aug 13 21:16:08 1997 From: roblwill at usaor.net (Jason Willgruber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Philips XT with 768K Message-ID: <199808130227.WAA00892@gate.usaor.net> I also have a neat XT. It's not a Phillips, but a Tandy 1000. It has 768K RAM, and a 12MHz 286 processor. Only, I still have the problem of not being able to access the upper memory. Being a Tandy, it's even harder to find a driver. Another setback is it's HD. It's a 20MB Western digital - and slow as a turtle. Does anyone, by any chance, have a spare XT-compatible IDE HD without a stepper motor driving the heads?? ThAnX, -- -Jason (roblwill@usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 > It was a neat machine for an XT. I don't recall if I ever checked to see if it > was using that extra memory or if it had any SW with it. My friend will be > delighted to know that he can squeeze out a little extra ram for memory-hungry > DOS programs. > > ciao larry > > lwalker@interlog.com From philippe.delbecque1 at vnumail.com Mon Aug 18 13:06:54 1997 From: philippe.delbecque1 at vnumail.com (Philippe DELBECQUE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: unsubscribe CLASSICCMP Message-ID: <00dc01bcac01$96ea1800$673a9ac3@unixland> unsubscribe CLASSICCMP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19970818/4513e604/attachment.html From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Aug 31 21:45:20 1997 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:54 2005 Subject: Challenger 2P Message-ID: >John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > >> Picked up few new finds this week. 1. A Challenger 2P (Model C2-4P) by >> Ohio >> Scientific SN5040. Anyone have spec's on this one? > >Interesting find! I have the Ohio Scientific Challlenger II, Model C2-4P, >S/N732 and haven't found much info on it. The machine was obtained from a >friend of a friend and no docs or anything came with it. So I also would be >interested in any information you find out about this machine! I don't have much, but I can give some of what I know. Ohio Scientific made, or so I gather, four 8 bit home computers - the C1P, C2P, C4P and C8P. Most of my info seems to be on the C8P, which was regarded as The Home Computer of the Future largely due to its ability to control your security system, electrical appliances (like lights), smoke alarms and so on, as well as being able to dial up the police when needed. The C2P, according to the little I have here, was a CIP with more ports, as the IP had but one. Thus the info I have on specs is mostly for the 1P, not the 2P, so I will give that in case it helps. Anyway, the IP is said to have been the first fully packaged home computer that you could just plug in and use. It came with either the MOS 6502 or Motorola 6800 cpu as standard (depending on your requirements) and had a CPU expansion board, allowing the addition of a Z80 or one of several other popular CPU's. It had a standard 53 key keyboard, upper and lower case letters, and 64 char by 24 line mono video. 4k or 12K RAM was standard, with8k BASIC in ROM. Sorry that I don't have more, but my interest tends to lie in the history, rather than the specs. Just for fun, it is worth noting that Ohio Scientific is noted for being the first PC Company to have a woman (Charity Engel Cheiky, I think) as President. Adam. From zmerch at northernway.net Sun Aug 31 23:06:09 1997 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:29:55 2005 Subject: Disk TPI's In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970831023354.00bed100@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970901000609.00a54100@mail.northernway.net> At 05:02 PM 8/31/97 -0700, you wrote: >> Don, >> A small nit to pick, but _all_ 3.5" floppies are 135 tracks/inch. This is >> true from my SSSD 200K Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2 for my Tandy 200, all >> the way up to 2.88Meg 3.5" floppy drives. > >No, I meant exactly what I said - and for the record, 1.44mb 3.5" and 1.2 >5.25" floppy drives are 96 tracks/inch (tpi), not 135. Don, You are certainly correct in that the 1.2Meg 5.25" floppies (and the 720K 80 track 5.25" drives as well) are 96 TPI. However, I would really like to see the specifications on a 3.5" drive that's 96TPI, as I have owned nearly 30 of these drives, from 200K SSSD up to 2.88Meg DSED, and all that I've ever owned, seen, or even heard of are all 135TPI. As well, all standard 3.5" media is 135TPI, and I have successfully formatted and used HD media in my Tandy Portable Disk Drive 2. (they work wonderfully, might I add. If you're quoting a non-standard drive/media, you've surely stumbled upon a rare beast indeed! HTH, Roger Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice.